Manitoba Hansard — 16 May 2018 (Sitting 49, 41st Legislature, 3rd Session)

41-3-49

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXI No. 49 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, May 16, 2018 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia Ind. FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen St.

Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples Ind. SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian, Hon.

Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC Vacant St. Boniface

2331 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, May 16, 2018 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Please be seated. Good afternoon, everybody.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 29–The Wildlife Amendment Act (Safe Hunting and Shared Management) Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): I move, seconded by the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Eichler), that Bill 29, The Wildlife Amendment Act (Safe Hunting and Shared Management); Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la conservation de la faune (pratiques de chasse sécuritaires et gestion intégrée de la f aune), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Squires : It gives me great pleasure to introduce Bill 29, The Wildlife Amendment Act. The bill addresses concerns regarding unsafe and unsustainable night hunting practices while respecting indigenous rights. It also enables the creation of shared management committees to address management and conservation of wildlife in certain areas of the province.

The bill makes all night hunting illegal in Manitoba except where specifically authorized for indigenous peoples. The proposed legislation will allow indigenous hunters to exercise their right to hunt at night in designated areas by obtaining a night hunting permit. Permits provide for night hunting on specified public lands determined through dis cussion with local landowners, municipalities and indigenous communities and where night hunting can sustainably be practised w ithout impacting public safety.

I look forward to unanimous support from all members in passing this important bill in the curre nt legislative session in order for it to take effect in time for next hunting season. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development Third Report Mr. Dennis Smook (Chairperson): I wish to present the third report of the Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development. Clerk (Ms.

Patricia Chaychuk): Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic– Some Honourable Members: Dispense. Madam Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Social and Economic Development presents the following as its Third Report. Meetings Your Committee met on the following occasions in the Legislative Building: • May 9, 2018 at 6:00 p.m. • May 14, 2018 at 6:00 p.m. • May 15, 2018 at 6:00 p.m. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 19) – The Planning Amendment Act (Improving Efficiency in Planning) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'aménagement du territoire (efficacité accrue) Committee Membership Committee Membership for the May 9, 2018 meeting: • Mr. ALLUM • Hon. Mr. EICHLER • Hon. Mr. GERRARD

2332 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2018 • Mr. LAGASSÉ • Mr. LINDSEY • Ms. MARCELINO • Mr. MARTIN • Mr. MICKLEFIELD • Mr. MICHALESKI • Mr. SMOOK (Chairperson) • Hon. Mr. WHARTON Your Committee elected Mr. MICKLEFIELD as the Vice-Chairperson at the May 9, 2018 meeting. Committee Membership for the May 14, 2018 meeting: • Mr. ALLUM • Hon. Mr. EICHLER • Ms. FONTAINE • Ms. KLASSEN • Mr. LAGIMODIERE • Mr. LINDSEY • Mr. PIWNIUK • Mr. SMOOK (Chairperson) • Mr. TEITSMA • Hon. Mr. WHARTON • Hon. Mr. WISHART Your Committee elected Mr. TEITSMA as the Vice-Chairperson at the May 14, 2018 meeting.

Committee Membership for the May 15, 2018 meeting: • Hon. Ms. CLARKE • Hon. Mr. EICHLER • Mr. EWASKO • Hon. Mr. GERRARD • Mr. ISLEIFSON • Mr. LAGASSÉ • Mr. LINDSEY • Mrs. SMITH (Point Douglas) • Mr. SMOOK (Chairperson) • Mr. SWAN • Hon. Mr. WHARTON Your Committee elected Mr. ISLEIFSON as the Vice-Chairperson at the May 15, 2018 meeting. Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following 29 presen- tations on Bill (No. 19) – The Planning Amendment Act (Improving Efficiency in Planning)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'aménagement du territoire (efficacité accrue): May 9, 2018 Chris Goertzen, Association of Manitoba Municipalities Kim MacAulay, Manitoba C ommunity Newspapers Association Chris Lorenc, Manitoba Heavy Construction Association Charles Chappell, Private Citizen Christine Waddell & Ken Waddell (by leave), Private Citizen Jill Verwey, Keystone Agricultural Producers Brent Wright, Private Citizen Mark Buss, Clipper Publishing John Kendle, Canstar Community News Jim Mihaly, Brandon Sun Jay Struth, The Killarney Guide May 14, 2018, Bob Cox, Winnipeg Free Press Will Reimer, Private Citizen Laurie Finley, Steinbach Carillon May 15, 2018, Ruth Pryzner, Private Citizen Joe Dolecki, Private Citizen Mike Teillet, Private Citizen George Matheson, Manitoba Pork Council Andrew Dickson, Private Citizen Elisabeth Saftiuk, Manitoba Professional Planners Institute Accalia Robertson, Private Citizen Lindy Clubb, Mixedwood Forest Society Bill Massey, Private Citizen David Nickarz, Green Party Evan Rodgers, Maple Leaf Foods Frances Smee, R.M. of Rosser Matt Reimer, HyLife Catherine King, Private Citizen Vicki Burns, Hog Watch Manitoba Written Submissions Your Committee received the following 22 written submissions on Bill (No. 19) – The Planning Amendment Act (Improving Efficiency in Planning)/Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'aménagement du territoire (efficacité accrue): Don Piett and Brenda Piett, Southeast Journal Harold Froese and Cory Rybuck, Manitoba Egg Farmers Nancy Johnson, Melita Era John Fefchak, Private Citizen Lynn Taylor, Thompson Citizen Gail Halldorson, Private Citizen Darryl Holyk, Minnedosa Tribune

May 16, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2333 Andrea Geary, Private Citizen Shirley Hiebert, Private Citizen Sheldon Birnie, Private Citizen Betty Turner, Private Citizen Darren Ridgley, Private Citizen Ligia Braidotti, Times Newspaper Wilma J. Struth, Private Citizen Brian Gilroy, Swan Valley Star and Times Gail H. Fisher, Private Citizen Ben Fox, Manitoba Beef Producers J Brodt, Private Citizen Danielle Da Silva, Private Citizen Vicki Wallace, Southern Manitoba Review Simon Fuller, Private Citizen Curtis Struth, Private Citizen Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 19) – The Planning Amendment Act (Improving Efficiency in Planning) / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'aménagement du territoire (efficacité accrue) Your Committee agreed to report this Bill, with one amendment, on a recorded vote of yeas six, nays four. THAT Clause 32(2) of the Bill be amended by striking out "Sections 18, 20 and 26" and substituting "Section 18, subsection 19(2) and sections 20, 25 and 26". Mr. Smook : I move, seconded by the honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Isleifson), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): Madam Speaker, I'm pleased to table the Pineland Forest Nursery 2016-17 Annual Report. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister for Sport, Culture and Heritage, and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with rule 26(2). Would the honourable minister please proceed with her statement. Ramadan Hon.

Cathy Cox (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House today to extend a very warm Ramadan Mubarak to our Muslim community here in Manitoba. Today, Ramadan begins, and as the new crescent moon appears devout Muslims all over the world will reflect on their lives and focus on spiritual renewal, almsgiving, strengthening community relations, their families and peace. Ramadan is the ninth month of the Islamic calendar and the period during which the Quran is believed to have been revealed to the Prophet Muhammad.

Ramadan is the holiest month for Muslims and is one of the Five Pillars of Islam. During Ramadan, Muslims refrain from negative thoughts; they abstain from food from sunrise to sunset and conclude each night in gratitude through prayers. Their observance is a time of profound worship and deep spirituality. In this month of sacrifice and giving, the Muslim community extends assistance to those experiencing conflict, hunger, pover ty and disease through charitable donations called zakat, regardless of differences in faith, culture or ethnic background.

And, Madam Speaker, for all Manitobans this month provides a wonderful opportunity for all of us to reach out to our Muslim friends , neighbours and colleagues and learn more about the Islam faith and this very important holy month. The Manitoba Muslim community has more than doubled in the last decade. We are fortunate that over 20,000 Muslims from 28 different cultural and ethnic backgrounds call Manitoba their home.

Opportunities to recognize cultural heritage provide important occasions for dialogue, education and awareness, and these celebrations and observances also serve to highlight the diversity and complexities within trad itions and faiths that contribute to our multicultural mosaic and social unity. I commend the members of our local Muslim community for their dedication to community service. Canadian Muslims have made important contri - butions in the business sector, to t he arts and at the professional level.

Your commitment is evidence of our very, very, very many similarities despite our varied experiences and backgrounds. Madam Speaker, I encourage all Manitobans and members of the House to join me in wishing all

2334 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2018 Muslims in Manitoba a peaceful and happy Ramadan. Ramadan Mubarak. Thank you. Ms. Flor Marcelino (Logan): I thank the minister for her statement. I rise today to wish Ramadan Mubarak to all of the Manitobans throughout our province who are taking

part in the fast of Ramadan. Ramadan is the holiest time in the Islamic faith, as followers commemorate the revelation of the Quran to Prophet Muhammad. The fast throughout Ramadan is meant to bring Muslims and the faithful closer to God while also reminding them of the suffering of the less fortunate. Even for non- Muslim Manitobans, the values of Ramadan are worth celebrating. It's a time for detaching oneself from material things and worldly possessions.

It is a time for people to step back in reflection, give charitably to those with less, come together with family and promote good works. * (13:40) Ramadan is observed by nearly 2 billion people around the world each year. The acts of preparing for the fasts and breaking the fasts are a time of celebration within families and communities, as fellow worship pers come together to pray and eat during those holy times. Manitoba is the proud home to many Muslim families and the vibrant communities that use this time to make important contributions to our province.

We wish our Muslim brothers and sisters peace as they embark on this month- long religious journey. Thank you. Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Madam Speaker, I ask for leave to speak in response to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the statement? [Agreed] Ms. Lamoureux: Today marks the beginning of Ramadan for Muslims in Manitoba, across the country and around the world. During this time , family and friends will gather all over the world to observe this holy month as they fast and pray.

Madam Speaker, prayer and spiritual con - templation is a focus during this holy time. Members of the community focus on compassion, as well as giving generously to others and appreciating one's blessings through gratitude. Let's use this opportunity to celebrate Muslim communities in Manitoba and across the world as we recognize the important contributions and wish those participating in this holy month a blessed and peaceful Ramadan. Thank you. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Richard Halliday Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Families): Today I'd like to honour a man who was taken from us far too early.

Richard Halliday, the president and CEO of Assiniboine chamber of commerce, sadly and suddenly passed away on May 5th. Richard was a highly respected individual. He was an extremely ambitious and motivated man. Prior to being president and CEO of Assiniboine chamber of commerce, Richard held positions in marketing and sales manager at Skyward Aviation. He was also s ales and marketing manager for Manitoba Lotteries and recently a business development manager for the North End community rehabilitation corporation–or renewal corporation.

Richard was extremely intelligent and clearly had very lofty career aspirations, and yet he always had a time for –to listen to what was going in your life, individuals, as opposed to talking about himself or things that were going on in his life. And I tell you that he's someone that would listen, and would truly listen. He was the ty pe of person that remembered, sometimes months later, any conversations you may have had. It's a trait that I truly find impressive, and I always admired Richard for his quality and the type of services and support that he provided to everyone around him.

Not only was Richard successful in business and the community, but he was also a loving husband for his wife Helen and a proud father to his two sons, Austin, Douglas, who are here in our crowd here today. I can tell you of my understanding that Richar d was also extremely talented chef, a dancer, a singer, avid art collector and a self -proclaimed handyman. He and his family also own a summer home in Eagle Bay in Kenora –near Kenora, approximately, called, or what they used to call as Halliday Inn, which

May 16, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2335 represented for friends and family–was truly opening to everyone. Losing someone is never easy, and losing someone who has a productive and impact on our society in our local area is something that is truly profound and something that I want to recognize in the Manitoba Legislature. So on behalf of the member for St. James (Mr. Johnston) and myself, I truly –condolences to the family, and they are here. I'd like to recognize them for his life's work. Thank you. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. James–or the honourable Minister of Families. Mr.

Fielding : I'd ask to have leave–thank you, Madam Speaker, I'd like to ask for leave to have the names of the family members read into the record. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to include those names in Hansard? [Agreed] Family members of Richard Halliday: Helen, Austin, Douglas Faceless Doll Project Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St.

Johns): Twice this past March, I had the great privilege of visiting Lord Selkirk regional comprehensive school as students embarked on a Faceless Doll Project in honour of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls under the guidance of Shawna Whiteside and Mindy Brooker, elders , and i ndigenous community leadership. In 2012, the Native Women's Association of Canada launched the Faceless Doll Project, a collection of faceless dolls, lovingly made by community, meant to symbolically represent MMIWG across the country. The member for Point Douglas (Mrs.

Smith) and I both had the honour of participating in two of NWAC's community engagements , lovingly making our own faceless dolls, adding to their collection. NWAC's Faceless Doll Project travel led extensively throughout Canada, as an art installation, including both National Roundtables on Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. As

an act of reconciliation and as a means of public education, Lord Selkirk students com - menced their own face–doll project intent on creating 1,500 felt dolls , which I am pleased to report have been successfully made. Students attached all 1,500 dolls to standing boards, providing a beautiful expression of acknowledgement, honour and love for MMIWG and their families. I am always so proud when our youth take an active role on the issue of MM IWG, and these students, alongside their educational mentors, choose art as a means of agency and healing.

Art is increasingly being used as a vehicle to draw attention to MMIWG and as a m eans of highlighting communities' support for families' trauma and struggles in pursuing justice for their loved ones. Miigwech to Shawna, Mindy and all Lord Selkirk students who participated in this beautiful project:

an act of love on behalf of MMIWG. I ask my colleagues to help recognize our guests in the House today. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns. Ms. Fontaine: I ask for leave to have all of the names of our guests and all of the students included in Hansard, please. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to include those names in Hansard? [Agreed] Faceless Doll Project participants and guests: Stephanie Atkin, Jacquie Bercier, Julia Courchene, Malcolm Disbrowe, Tyler Doyle, Carrie Hart, Leah Isfeld, Jared Laberge, Paige Mason, William Miller, Alvina Redeagle, Jessica Robert, Subrena Sawanash, Shawna Whiteside.

Jazmin Boisclair Mr. Bob Lagassé (Dawson Trail): Madam Speaker, I would like to introduce a remarkable young Manitoban, Jazmin Boisclair. Jazmin has won multiple awards. She has recently received the Nellie McClung Trailblazer Scholarship for her writing, activism and humanitarian activities. Jazmin has faced challenges, such as in 2009, when a flood destroyed her family's home. Because of this , she has experienced homelessness and poverty. Shortly after the flood, her father was diagnosed with lung cancer, and, in 2016, was found to have terminal brain cancer.

Along with her mother, Jazmin participates as a part-time caregiver for her father. Jazmin herself has overcome physical and mental challenges and she – that she copes with every day.

2336 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2018 I am certain these challenges have helped to influence Jazmin's interest in medical and scientific research. She plans to be enrolled in the University of Manitoba before applying to medical school and then specializing in medical research. What is noteworthy about Jazmin is not just her struggles and goals but her outstanding character. At the age of 17, Jazmin is mature, resilient and ambitious. She is committed to community and school volunteer work, while also active in sports. Her team coaches have recognized her for her teamwork and leadership efforts.

Throughout her school life, she has given an appropriate priority to education and has achieved honours-level grades. A true–as a true trailblazer, Jazmin demonstrates the core values and vision of Nellie McClung. She describes her experience winning this scholarship, among her many others, as a blessing that will help her achieve her dreams to become a scientist, health - care professional and humanitarian. Jazmin Boisclair is here with us in the gallery today, along with her mother, Sandy Finkel. Please join me in recognizing the achievements and bright future of another Dawson Trail hero, Jazmin Boisclair.

North East Winnipeg Historical Society Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Northeast Winnipeg is one of the oldest areas to be settled in Manitoba, but its place in history has often been overlooked. The North East Winnipeg Historical Society works to change that by preserving and recording the rich histories of North Kildonan, East Kildonan and Elmwood for all. * (13:50) Led by historian Jim Smith, this volunteer group of dedicated locals work to educate the public on northeast Winnipeg's history with their series of historical walking tours, guest lec tures and other events throughout the year.

They have had large successes with their efforts, with walks attracting more than 150 people at a time and publishing a successful area history book which is now in its fourth printing. The North East Winnipeg H istorical Society relies only on small grants, along with funds raised from their $10 memberships, to support their efforts. They also invest a lot of their own time and resources into gathering and maintaining one of the largest online archival compilations, available for all to access on their website, along with physical binders full of news clippings, historic al maps, photos and items.

The group has also been successful in building their collection that they are now looking at the next step in their growth: a permanent museum to preserve their history. Many areas in Winnipeg that used to be rural municipalities have museums to house their history, but not northeast Winnipeg. The group has demonstrated through their commitment and drive over the last eight years that they are ready for this step and have identified locations to house the museum. They are now seeking provincial support to make that dream a reality.

The group was encouraged by the support of myself and their local councillor, and also by this government's recent announcement of a Heritage Trust Program for small- and medium-sized museums and archives. It would be incredible , Madam Speaker, to see this money put towards this important initiative. Preserving our history needs to be a priority as we map out our future. I bel ieve supporting groups like North East Winnipeg Historical Society shows a commitment to that principle, and supporting their efforts for a permanent museum would help us preserve our history for generations to come.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Carbon Tax and Hydro Inquiry Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): Again, I'd like to thank the Premier (Mr. Pallister) for allowing me the opportunity to represent the people of Assiniboia as a Conservative. My remarks will be simple. Axe the carbon tax, including the made -in-Manitoba carbon tax, hold a Hydro inquiry and let's encourage freedom of the press. Public notifications should be in public publications like the press. And we live in the best country, best time in human history to be alive.

I'm very fortunate to have the opportunity to represent the best constituency in the best country. And I would also like to take this opportunity to thank my family: Dave, Joanne, my parents; and my brother and sister, Gordon and Julia, and their spouses and kids for all their support in–during this last year. Madam Speaker, thank you.

May 16, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2337 Mr. Alan Lagimodiere (Selkirk): Madam Speaker, on Monday I was very proud to join the minister– Madam Speaker: Excuse me. We've already had our quota of member statements today. An Honourable Member: Leave. Madam Speaker: The member's asking for leave to do another statement. Is there leave? Some Honourable Members: Leave. An Honourable Member: No. Madam Speaker: Leave has been granted. The honourable–[interjection]–oh, did I hear a no? An Honourable Member: Yes. Madam Speaker: Oh, leave has been denied. [interjection] Oh, there may be a change.

Is there leave to allow the member to do a private member's statement? [Agreed] Selkirk Team for At Risk Teens Mr. Alan Lagimodiere (Selkirk): Thank you, Madam Speaker. On Monday I was very proud to join the Minister of Justice (Mrs. Stefanson) to announce our government's commitment of $50,000 in financial support for the Selkirk Team for At Risk Teens , otherwise known as START. The funding demonstrates our government 's commitment to working with c ommunity agencies to support at -risk youth across Manitoba.

START i s a very special team who work together to help at -risk teens transition successfully into adulthood. At-risk individuals face challenges which can lead to feelings of isolation and estrangement. This can decrease their chances of developi ng to their full potentials and lead to behaviours that are self destructive. I would like to share one of many START client success stories. Samuel was referred to the program at age of 17 after an abrupt change in behaviour which culminated in a three -week crime spree and 12 charges including assault, harassment, uttering threats and weapons offences.

Agencies in the START program worked with Samuel using addictions stabilization and mental health supports. With help, Samuel opened up to addressing the issues that led to his behaviour changes. Samuel's team consisted of members from the school division, the RCMP, the Addictions Foundation, community and youth corrections. Samuel and his family accepted the necessary supports to help him get off drugs, attend school regularly and address his mental health issues. Samuel has now graduated from high school and is working in his community.

I want to thank our Minister of Justice and our government for its commitment to helping support these groups who work together to give the youth in our communities the best opportunities possible for success. I ask my Chamber colleagues to please recognize our START program co-ordinator, Tammy Thompson; our START vice -chair, Wanda Delaronde, and START client, Andrea Pitracci. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions, we have some guests in the gallery. We have, seated in the public gallery from St.

Adolphe School 25 grade 5 to 8 students under the direction of Caleb Reimer, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Dawson Trail. (Mr. Lagassé). On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Concordia and Seven Oaks Hospitals Request to Stop ER Closures Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): I want to begin, Madam Speaker, by just saying Ramadan Kareem to the umma here in Manitoba, and may everyone who's observing the fast have a sacred and generous Ramadan.

We know that the Premier's cuts to the health-care system and the closure–the planned closures of emergency rooms in Concordia and Seven Oaks hospitals is going to have a big impact on the communities surrounding those care centres, but it also is going to have a big impact on the St. Boniface Hospital. Tens of thousands of patients who are currently being served by Concordia and Seven Oaks each and every year will have to go to St. Boniface if the government does proceed with their plan to bring in these closures.

2338 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2018 We also know that the shutte ring of the QuickCare clinic in St. Boniface added further pressure to the community, and the Premier has so far refused to listen. So I would ask the Premier: Will he back off his misguided plan to close emergency rooms in Winnipeg and commit to real supports for St. Boniface Hospital? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, Madam Speaker, after the NDP had 17 years to fix things, we had the longest wait times in emergency rooms in the country of Canada.

Four of the five longest waits in hospitals from coast to coast were in the city of Winnipeg, so I'd say backing off would be the wrong thing to do. I'd say moving ahead to shorten wait times would be the right thing to do, and that's what we're going to do. We're going to do that by focusing our resources appropriately to make sure that when people go to an emergency room, they get the care they need and they get it sooner. That's what we're after; that's what we're going to stay after. Madam Speaker, they broke it; we'll fix it.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, wait times have been increasing every month since the Premier and his Minister of Health have started closing e mergency rooms and urgent -care centres in the city of Winnipeg, and those are the facts. We know that the Premier's own–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –hand-picked experts have actually told them to slow down, to back off their plan to close Concordia and to close Seven Oaks emergency centres.

And one of the concerns that they also outline is that the government's current plan for St. Boniface Hospital is not enough. It will be not enough to help that hospital keep pace with the influx of patients over the coming years. Now, combined with the other closures that we've seen for QuickCare clinics like the one in St. Boniface, but also affecting other areas of the city as well, we know that our health -care system is under strain. Will the Premier stop his plan to close emergency rooms in the city of Winnipeg? * (14:00) Mr. Pallister: Well, Madam Speaker, what –there's nothing new over there.

This is the same position that the previous government demonstrated when they failed to addre ss the concerns about wait times that Manitobans have been communicating for some time–for years, in fact. The member's position is, and the NDP's position is, that we should slow down and wait, and that's exactly what they've been telling Manitobans to do in emergency rooms for the last number of years: wait –wait for six and a half hours for emergency care, Madam Speaker. That's just wrong. That's just wrong. It's painful. It creates fear.

The people in the–record numbers of people were walking out of emergency rooms without any care at all, just giving up in frustration. That's not a system that we should be defending in this House. I'm surprised the member tries to defend it. Madam Speaker: The honourable member –the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Westman and Parkland Region Ambulance Station Closures Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, we know that this Premier has a problem with listening, listening to his Hydro board, listening to the experts, listening to the opposition.

We're never surprised when he doesn't listen to us, but it is a concern when he doesn't listen to p eople who have supported him for years and years and years. So many people in Westman were surprised to hear that this government plans to close ambulance stations in their communities, communities like Oak Lake, communities like –in the Parkland region, Grandview.

Now, residents in these communities are not only upset that the government has announced plans to close ambulance stations where they live, but insult was added to injury when they find that the Premier and the Minister of Health will not eve n meet to listen to their concerns. So I'd ask: Will the Premier revisit his plan to close ambulance stations across Westman and in the

May 16, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2339 Parkland region and begin with a commitment to sitting down with, meeting with people and communities like Oak Lake? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): My Health Minister has been aggressive in his meeting schedule, as recently as last week meeting with people from Boissevain, Madam Speaker. That's a false attack. The member asks us to listen to him. I have listened to him. Here's what he's done just today, just this afternoon: he's said we're cutting health care–our budget this year is half a billion dollars higher than it ever was under the NDP. That's a myth.

He says wait times are getting longer. He wishes they would get longer, Madam Speaker, but they're getting shorter. They're 18 per cent shorter than last year at this time. And I've heard loud and clear what he said today and what he repeats. He wants Manitobans to wait longer for emergency care, but they're goi ng to get care sooner with this government. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. VIRGO Report Recommendations Implementation Commitment Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): We know that this P remier has a real credibility problem.

That was on display all week so far when it came to the–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –brutal mishandling of the rollout to their own VIRGO report. First, they've been saying for months and months and months now, wait for the VIRGO report to come. But then when it gets released, it turns out that they have been deleting recommendations that they do not agree with. Now we hear that they're not even p repared to tell us which recommendations they are going to act on, but why not?

If you already deleted the recommendations in the report that you don't like, why is the government not prepared to tell us the remaining recommendations that we'll see action on? When will the Premier make the investments that are needed? Will he commit to implementing all the remaining recommendations in the VIRGO report? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, I find it sad, Madam Speaker, that the member would choose to attack my integrity in this Chamber. But I find it even sadder that he would try to attack the integrity of the report's author, Dr.

Brian Rush, who says he wrote the report and takes ownership of it. The member opposite chooses to attack someone who has an international record of renown, a 62- page CV, who has worked almost four decades as a substance- use mental health researcher, who has incredible expertise, because, Madam Speaker, the author of the report made 130 recommendations that we here are very interested in reviewing, and didn't make one recommendation that the member wanted him to make. That kind of petulance doesn't speak well to anyone, and attacking the integrity of the report's author is not on. I don't accept it.

I think the member should apologize to Dr. Brian Rush. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Just to be clear, I'm criticizing this Premier's brutal handling of the mental health and addictions file to date, and the Premier's mismanagement continues. We hear today from journalists that the Minister of Health will not be answering questions about the VIRGO report that they have been promising for months and months and months. So, again, they've only been responding to questions over the past two days.

There are many more questions, but they haven't answered any substantive questions yet because the y've been so preoccupied with their own version -control challenges and their own bungled rollout of this VIRGO report. Now, we're used to, in the House, to this government not answering our questions during– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –question period, Madam Speaker, but why won't the Minister of Health answer the questions of the people of Manitoba or answer the questions that the media has?

I'm sure many people would like to know which of the recommendations that this government has already vetted will see action.

2340 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2018 So I'd ask the Premier: First of all, which recommendations will he implement? Second of all, will he commit to answering questions before the media this afternoon? Mr. Pallister: Well, the member proposes to launch an in tegrity fight for which he is unarmed, Madam Speaker, because he tells us that we bungled a report which is critically important and deals with a critically important issue, which the NDP never did. They never commissioned a report for 17 years. While the problem worsened they failed to address it.

They backed off, did nothing, and now he criticizes the report only because it doesn't contain one little recommendation he doesn't like to see not in the report. Madam Speaker, 130 recommendations worth considering and one extra recommendation not there, all of a sudden integrity attacks on the author of the report, on the Health Minister and on myself. The member shouldn't throw stones from a glass house. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Kinew: Madam Speaker, there are many important recommendations in this report: recom - mendations for them to invest in housing– [interjection]–there are recommendations for them to invest in housing; there are recommendations for them to invest in supports for children and youth; there are recommendations for them to add more money to the amount that is provided to front -line services, to primary care that serves those with addictions and mental health issues.

However, to date, so far this week, this government has not answered any of the questions from us, from the public, from the media or otherwise as to which recommendations in the report they are prepared to act on. The contradiction in their position is this: we already know that they have vetted the recommendations. They have already filtered out the recommendations that they do not agree with. Why, then, can they not tell us which of the remaining recommendations will they act on? Mr. Pallister: Well, there it is again .

The Leader of the Opposition likes to cast aspersions , Madam Speaker; he likes to impugn the character of others. He says we should act on 130 recommendations, but at the same time he disparages the character of the author of the report –can't have it both ways, can't have it both ways. A 30–a four -decade career by this gentleman, Dr. Brian Rush; he has already stated publicly and repeatedly that he is the author of the report without influence or undue consideration of the views of t his government. He has said that repeatedly, yet the member repeats charges against Dr. Rush's character.

That is inappropriate behaviour, Madam Speaker. That is inappropriate behaviour. It's unfair to the author of the report; it's unfair to this Health Minister; it's unfair to the people of Manitoba. We'll deal with an issue that was ignored by the NDP for years and we will do so because, while they broke it, we are going to fix it. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mental Health and Addictions Social Housing Units Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Access to safe, affordable housing is a human right and a moral responsibility.

One of the items that slipped past the Premier's political editors of the doctored VIRGO report was a call for increasing the amount of social housing for people dealing with m ental health issues and addictions, Madam Speaker. * (14:10) Despite this, we're finding out today the Premier (Mr. Pallister) approved the sale of a building with more than 300 units that are sitting empty. Will the Premier commit all proceeds from the sale toward social housing and for Manitobans dealing with mental health issues and addictions? Hon.

Scott Fielding (Minister of Families): I can tell you, the member is just completely wrong on these issues. What's happening here, Madam Speaker, i s either, clearly, one of two things: either the NDP and the member is completely wrong on the issue, or No. 2, they're trying to gin up the numbers to fit some sort of broken political 'narrive' that they cooked up. What–let me address the real facts. T he real facts are this government has created over 487 new units of affordable housing here across Manitoba; 42 per cent of those units are social housing. We think that's important.

This government has created– over 3,000 more people are supported under the

May 16, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2341 Rent Assist program. By year end there'll be over 3,300 more people supported. That's something going to have impact on poverty. That's going to have something impact on mental health. We're very proud of that record, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. John's, on a supplementary question. Ms. Fontaine: The minister says he has, and I quote, big plans, end quote, for money– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Ms.

Fontaine: –from the sale of 185 Smith Stree t, but, apparently, Madam Speaker, the only thing bigger than those plans is the secrecy around them. I would have thought the goal for the minister would be–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Fontaine: –to have more social housing for Manitobans, which is recommended in the VIRGO report. Again, it's important to recognize, the VIRGO report makes it clear that people dealing with mental health issues and addictions need more social housing, not less.

Can the minister tell us exactly how many new units of housing the money from the sale of 185 Smith Street will create? Mr. Fielding: This is another example of NDP, not just mismanagement, because the building that was in question needed about $20 million of maintenance that the NDP, of course, forgot to do; the shining example of the management that the NDP did in terms of housing. The revenues that are associated with this will help us support and did support, last year as well as this year, over 1,200 more people on the Rent Assist program.

That's providing a portable shelter benefit that we think is important. That's some of the reasons why we think that the number of people, the children, the child poverty rate has gone from 10th to fifth best here in the province of Manitoba. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. John's, on a final supplementary. Ms. Fontaine: The Premier (Mr. Pallister) and his minister have shown over and over again that they don't believe in social housing.

For all the Pr emier's spin and rhetoric, the simple fact is that he would rather sell off buildings than invest in social housing units that would actually go to help Manitobans. Manitoba is in need of –massive need of –social and affordable housing to help our most vul nerable and marginalized. Again, how many new social and affordable housing units will the Premier direct his minister to build this year? Mr. Fielding : We're not done yet in terms of building affordable and social housing for Manitobans. In fact, we've got over 140 units being constructed right now. Over 30 per cent will be social housing.

What I always here from the opposition is somehow that we haven't built a unit at all of social housing. What I will table here, Madam Speaker, is a picture of myself–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Fielding : –building, with Jimmy Carter, affordable housing. That's important to St. James, Madam Speaker. I al so table a picture of a ground breaking that I had with the member–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Fielding: –for Thompson (Mr. Bindle) to build affordable housing in Thompson, which we think is important.

I will also table a picture of myself a t the Austin commons complex, that's there, building social and affordable housing for the province of Manitoba. And I will also table a picture of the Province of Manitoba investing in the Downtown Commons. We think that's a progress. Get on board with our plan for housing. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Safe Injection Site Request for Facility Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Madam Speaker, we know the Minister of Health received the VIRGO report at the end of March and we know that the report he received contained a recommendation for a safe injection site.

But the minister let that report sit in his desk while he continued to deny and belittle calls inside and outside this Legislature for that very thing. And while intravenous drug use has continued to devastate Manitoba's families, the minister instead stage-managed a fight with his own consultant about a recommendation for those sites.

2342 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2018 This minister stood in this House and denied there was evidence to support safe injection sites, knowing full well he had a report from his own expert recommending it. But it's not too late. Will the minister review the deleted recom - mendations and commit to opening a safe injection site? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health , Seniors and Active Living ): The member is demanding that I alter the VIRGO report now, Madam Speaker. I understand why he's attacking Dr. Brian Rush.

I don't agree with it, but I understand it, because the VIRGO report is many things. It's a thoughtful report. It's a thorough report. But it's also an indictment of the 17 years that the NDP were in government, Madam Speaker. It speaks to the fact that the NDP didn't put proper investments into mental health and addictions. It speaks to the fact that they didn't properly align the system. It speaks to the fact that there were long wait times. Of course they 're going to attack the author, because that report is a clear indication that the NDP failed on this file when they were in government.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a supplementary question. Mr. Swan: Well, Madam Speaker, I'm not at tacking the author, I'm attacking a minister who had a report on his desk–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Swan: –calling for safe injection sites and refused to acknowledge that, even as he was being asked questions in this House about that very issue. Dr. M.J. Milloy is a national expert in safe injection sites and infectious diseases, and he says there's no question that Winnipeg needs–now needs a safe injection site.

The only question is if this minister will put aside his government's ideol ogical beliefs and do the right thing for Manitobans struggling with addictions. It's abundantly clear to everyone, except perhaps the members over there, that the minister interfered in Dr. Rush's report. Will he now acknowledge the evidence suggests that safe injection sites is the best practice? Mr. Goertzen: The member for Minto, not only in that question, referred to Dr. Rush as being untruthful, but he also wants me now to ignore the VIRGO report, Madam Speaker.

And I know why he wants me to ignore the report, because the report lays out very clearly that over 17 years that the NDP were in government, young people, youth, and people that the Leader of the Opposition referred to in his question, waited. They didn't have access to treatment. Now, we' ve already, of course, taken some action with the RAAM clinics; didn't happen under the NDP. Of course, they don't like the report. Why would they like the VIRGO report? It puts out in very clear understanding, in writing, in illustration, that the NDP didn't care about this file, failed on this file.

I'm sure they're going to try to do everything they can to discredit the report because the report discredits them, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a final supplementary. Mr. Swan: Madam Speaker, we're calling on this minister to follow the VIRGO report that he received on March 31st before he decided that he didn't like the recommendations in that report. The minister's hand- picked consultant knew the truth about safe injection sites because there's national evidence that they work. Dr.

Rush knew that Manitoba families have been calling for harm reduction supports because he consulted with them. The only thing Dr. Rush told us he didn't know was that there was an application to build a safe injection site in the works. How could he possibly not have known that if he was the expert and was given the necessary information from Manitoba Health? It's because this Minister of Health refused to be open and transparent in deali ng with this drug crisis. Will the minister now commit to moving ahead with a safe injection site? * (14:20) Mr.

Goertzen : Well, there he goes again, Madam Speaker, wants me to ignore the VIRGO report, wants to criticize the author, the –he says the hand-picked author. Of course, there was a tender that went out. He wouldn't understand that because he wouldn't know what a tender is –and we can talk about Tiger Dams at another time –but there was a tender and he was selected because he's an eminent expert in this field–[interjection]

May 16, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2343 Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen : –40 years of experience, a 62 -page CV, Madam Speaker, and the member for Minto says that he is being untruthful. Well, I know why he wants to discredit the report. That report was clear: under the NDP, under 17 years they failed. They failed young people. They failed others who were dealing with addictions. They failed many people who were dealing with mental health. They failed. The report lays that out. We won't fail them. We'll follow the report, unlike them, Madam Speaker. Inclusion Support Funding Inquiry Mrs.

Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): Children with disabilities or emotional and behaviour needs should not have to wait to get the supports they need. When the minister was asked in Estimates if there is an internal wait- list for children receiving inclusion support funding, he said there isn't, per se. Families need clarity. Will the minister tell the House today if there is a wait-list or not? Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Families): Our government is very proud in the investments we made with the federal government in terms of supports for child care, over a $47- million commitment.

That, of course, never happened under the NDP government. We are very proud of the fact t hat we're investing over $10.3 million to fix the broken inclusion support system that we are left under the NDP government that was underfunded for many years. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a supplementary question. Mrs. Sm ith: According to FIPPA documents, staff did compile a working list for internal tracking purposes. This sounds like a wait -list. This means some children may not be getting the supports that they need.

Will the minister confirm that every child who qualifies, for the inclusion supports that they need that they get the funding? Mr. Fielding: We are, as a Province, investing more money in child care than any time in this history, and that's largely to do with the commitment that our government has made in terms of investments in child care. We know that hundreds of spaces have been created, something you didn't see under the NDP administration. What we did with inclusion support, we put it under review. We made some–we made importance investments in there.

We established a partnership agreement with the federal government, and we've invested over $10.3 million over the next three years to streamline the system and make it more efficient and effective for families. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Point Douglas, on a final supplementary. Mrs. Smith: Federal agreements won't help parents if their children are stuck on an internal wait -list. Families need to get supports now when they need it, not later. This is about –more about helping children be successful in –about–this is more about helping kids be successful in daycare.

This is about protecting the rights of Manitobans with disabilities. Will the minister be clear: Will every child who needs inclusion supports get the funding that they need? Mr. Fielding: It's always important to listen to the experts on wait times. We know what the NDP did in terms of wait times for things like health care, for things like a number of other things, including parents that are waiting for child -care supports, something that we inherited–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Fielding: –from the NDP government. The member also talks about immediate supports.

The $10.6 million is allocated for this year and next year. That's something that I call immediate support for families that need the support. This program was underfunded. It was capped, since 2012 alone. Our budget process will have over $5 million for the next two years to invest in important programs and streamlining it, make it more efficient and effective. That's something we heard from the child -care sector. That's exactly what we did, Madam Speaker. Workplace Death Case Concern Whistleblower Protection Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, with respect to the death of Todd Maytwayashing, on the May the 7th the Premier said that he's taken this issue on personally and seriously. The family and I appreciate the Premier's personal

2344 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2018 interest and, indeed, his visit to the family home a month ago today. There is, indeed, an area where the Premier can help. I understand that there are others, including in the gallery today, who are ready to come forward to talk about the situation, but are reluctant to do so for fear of losing their jobs. Can the Premier tell the family members who are here today that he will make a statement or take action which would protect such individuals so that they feel comfortable in coming forward? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): I would give assurance to anyone who has information that they would like to bring forward in the process of investigating this tragedy, to bring that forward without fear of repercussions of any kind. They deserve to feel entirely confident and safe in doing so and I think all of us here share a desire to make sure that the information that the family is desiring to receive is received by them as soon as possible. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a supplementary question. Whistleblower Protection Legislation Coverage for Contract Employees Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I thank the Premier for that assurance. It's really all about making sure that all the information possible on the circumstances is available. Now, we know that employees of Manitoba Hydro are protected under the whistle -blower protection act, but as I understand it, employees of a private contractor like the Forbes Bros. would not be protected even though the company is doing contract work for Manitoba Hydro.

Would the Premier consider an amendment to the whistleblower protection act to include coverage for employees of companies working under contract to the government or to a Crown corporation like Manitoba Hydro? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Madam Speaker, I don't wish to be harsh with the member but I would say it would be with great reluctance that I would enter into a policy discussion centered around and using as its focal point the tragic death of a worker in our province, and so I would reserve comment in respect to his suggestion.

With all due respect, I'd ask him to use the channels available to all of us here as members in order to effect change. If he believes that change to be one he wishes to advocate, I encourage him to do so. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a final supplementary. Mr. Gerrard: I thank the Premier and I appreciate his circumstances. I suggest there is an opportunity, potentially, to work together to address the situation and improve worker safety. Currently, Bill 5, an amendment to the whistleblower protection act, is before the Legislature.

With all -party agreement, it would be possible to expand the coverage of the whistleblower protection act to include coverage for employees of companies working under contract to the government or under contract to a Crown corporation like Manitoba Hydro. This would be desirable for a number of reasons. I wonder: If we brought it forward, would the Premier consider the possibility of an a ll-party agreement for such an amendment? Mr. Pallister: Again, feeling deeply, as I think we all do, the tragedy this family is going through and has experienced, I will repeat nothing, Madam Speaker.

I believe I've addressed the member's concerns with my second response. Selkirk Team for At Risk Teens Program Funding Support Announcement Mr. Alan Lagimodiere (Selkirk): Madam Speaker, during my private member's statement today, I stated that the Minister of Justice was in Selkirk on Monday and made an exciting funding 'annoument' – announcement for our START program. Can the member–or, the minister let members of the House know how this funding support will help at-risk youth and make our communities safer? Hon.

Heather Stefanson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I was proud to join my colleague, the member for Selkirk, along with RCMP Assistant Commissioner Scott Kolody as well as 'co -ordinaty'–co-ordinator Tammy Thompson, who's here with us today, to announce our government's $50,000 investment in the Selkirk Team for At Risk Teens, or the START program. START, Madam Speaker, is a community mobilization initiative that provides at -risk youth with supports they need to prevent cycles of crime in their lives.

May 16, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2345 Andrea, in fact, who's here with us in the gallery today, is a prime example of why we're investing more in organizations like START. She should be commended for all the accomplishments that she has made in her life, and I want to congratulate her today. Madam Speaker, our government will never give up on people like Andrea. We will never give up on our youth and we will continue to do so while we're protecting the health and safety of all Manitobans. * (14:30) Planning Amendment Act Public Notices and Appeals Process Mr.

Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, over the last week, Manitobans have voiced their opposition to Bill 19, The Planning Amendment Act. Many presenters pointed out that the act allows developers and only developers to appeal a decision to the Municipal Board. Thi s provision was opposed by many presenters, including the Association of Manitoba Municipalities and the reeve of the RM of Rosser. Of greatest concern to us is that, under this legislation, only those advocating for a development are afforded the right to appeal.

Why is it one set of rules for this government's well-connected friends, and a different, lesser set of rules for everyone else? Hon. Jeff Wharton (Minister of Municipal Relations): I just wanted to, again, thank all the presenters that took place in –over the three days, here at the Legislature. It was a great opportunity to see democracy at work. I know that we heard a lot of very interesting comments, and, of course, input towards Bill 19, and, certainly, Madam Speaker, we are listening. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Lindsey: Many presenters opposed the government's arbitrary requirements about public hearings. Even the Manitoba professional planners were concerned. This is the first t ime the professional planners have taken action by presenting at a committee. Ms. Saftiuk raised concerns about the arbitrary threshold to hold a public hearing. She asked the minister, and I quote: Shouldn't the concerns of immediately abutting property owners carry more weight? End quote.

So I ask the minister: Why isn't he listening to the public or to professional planners or anyone else who are worried that the minister's making it harder for the public to voice their concerns? Mr. Wharton : I'm gl ad the member opposite brought up the issue of listening, because it's very apparent that the NDP weren't listening during the three days of committee.

I have a quote here from an individual I'll just quickly read into the record: I can remember seeing a large number of people present at the committee tonight that I have spoke to for several years, Madam Speaker, and they were not listening, let alone hearing. And I applaud the fact that the members present tonight appear to be good, not only at listening, but engaging us in the process. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a final supplementary. Mr. Lindsey: Clearly, they weren't listening. We heard, repeatedly, from the presenters about the erosion of public notice provisions.

The minister, last night, made an amendment that would allow him to pass the bill, well, and then proclaim those provisions about public announcements at some point in the future. John Kendle, from the Community Newspapers Association, told us that the minister p romised that he would preserve community notices. Instead, the minister broke his word and passed the bill, allowing him to revoke community notices, at his pleasure, any time in the future. Why has the minister broken his word? Why is he trying to limit public participation? Why is he not listening? Mr.

Wharton : Again, I'd like to commend the member for mentioning listening, because, again, I know that he wasn't paying attention over the last few nights, Madam Speaker, because Mr. Kendle did, quote, that

section 25 of Bill 19 be amended. He was requesting an amendment to the bill. We listened to Mr. Kendle. We have made it clear that the bill will be amended. We are listening; unlike members opposite. Planning Amendment Act Health and Environmental Concerns Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): Well, this storyline just gets more and more bizarre with each so -called answer from this minister, so let's continue.

2346 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2018 The irony is fully on display that the concerns raised by many at committee hearin gs recently relate to odour concerns in rural Manitoba, declining quality of life, declining property values of nearby properties close to new agricultural developments and, of course, water pollution. This minister's the MLA for Gimli. How is he standing up for water in Manitoba, while still pushing through legislation which undermines democracy and increases threats to Lake Winnipeg? Will he answer that question today? Hon.

Jeff Wharton (Minister of Municipal Relations): Madam Speaker, 17 years under the NDP did nothing to help Lake Winnipeg, Madam Speaker. I know, because I do live on the shores of Lake Winnipeg. This government is very concerned about our waterways. Nothing in Bill 19 changes any environmental process moving forward. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Mr. Altemeyer: All right, let's practice our active listening skills. There's nothing in Bill 19 that changes any environmental provision, except maybe– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order. Order. Mr. Altemeyer: –except for an entire

section of the legislation. Other than that little detail, we may have something here. So this is a minister that is now going to go to his constituents and every other rural constituent and say, you no longer have the right to appeal a decision that has been made about a development project when that development project could very well have a negative impact on the very air that you breathe, the very water that you try to draw to use for your family from your well. How on earth can the minister stand by that faulty reasoning? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): I appreciate a question about fairness, and this theme, I guess, today, Madam Speaker, is one of transparency. We understand there was a rebellion on the other side that was caused by –allegedly–by the awarding, repeatedly, of untendered contract s to a party donor, and these contracts were arranged by Steve Ashton to be given to his friend, and there were a series – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pallister: –of them and they total $15 million. And so we asked for a report, Madam Speake r.

We asked for a report to give substance to the usefulness of these orange plastic bags that the minister kept buying from his buddy at Pony Corral. And we got a report back, but it took seven years. And the report had a title page –and I know I can't u se displays so I won't hold up the report because that would be wrong; I can only say that every page was blacked out –every page, eight years later.

So when these members opposite attack us for putting out a report, Madam Speaker, and claim we did it err oneously, they need to remember that they, eight years later, had a report put out which was blacked out apart from the title page–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order, please. Order. The First Minister is correct in that exhibits aren't allowed, and I would remind everybody that that is a rule that we take seriously here, that exhibits are not to be displayed at any time. The time for oral questions has expired. Madam Speaker: Petitions? An Honourable Member: Point of order.

Madam Speaker: Question period's over. An Honourable Member: Point of order. The honourable–order. Order. Point of Order Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a point of order. Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Again, you just provided guidance to the House that displays are not used, props are not to be used in the House. The Premier is curr ently showing props, a display before the House. So I'd ask you to call him to order and ask him to apologize. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order, please.

May 16, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2347 As it was pointed out to me by several of the members in the Chamber, that is a point of order, that exhibits are not to be used in the House. And I will concur that that is not to be allowed, that it would be a point of order when members hold up exhibits, and that is a clear rule of this House.

So the member would have a point of order. * (14:40) I would indicate, also, that there was a point where I did indicate that oral questions had expired and did call for petitions, so with the timing–and I guess I would need some clarity from my staff as to whether that rule does extend past question period. And I–it has–it is being indicated to me that that rule does extend past question period, that it is for all sittings in the House, so that would be a point of order. * * * Madam Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired, I had indicated. PETITIONS Tina Fontaine–Public Inquiry Mrs.

Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for the petition: Tina Fontaine was murdered at the age of 15 years, and her body was f ound in the Red River on August 17th, 2014.

(2) Tina Fontaine was robbed of her loving family and the Anishinabe community of Sagkeeng First Nation.

(3) Tina Fontaine was failed by multiple systems which did not protect her as they intervened in her life.

(4) Tina Fontaine was further failed by systems meant to seek and pursue justice for her murder.

(5) Tina Fontaine's murder galvanized Canada on the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, MMIWG, as she quickly became the collective daughter and the symbol of MMIWG across Canada.

(6) Manitoba has failed to fully implement the recommendations of numerous reports and recommendations meant to improve and protect the lives of indigenous peoples and children, including the Manitoba justice –the Manitoba Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples and the Phoenix Sinclair inquiry. We petition the l egislative of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Premier of Manitoba and the Minister of Justice to immediately call a public inquiry into the systems that had a role in the life and the death of Tina Fontaine, as well as the function of the administration of justice after her death.

(2) To urge that the terms of reference of the public–of a public inquiry be developed jointly with the caregivers of Tina Fontaine and/or the agent appointed by them. Signed by Jason Harper, Guy Ducharme, Colleen Whela and many, many other Manitobans. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Vimy Arena Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The residents of St. James and other areas of Manitoba are concerned with the intention expressed by the provincial government to use the Vimy Arena site as a Manitoba Housing project.

(2) The Vimy Arena site is in the middle of a residential area near many schools, churches, community clubs and senior homes, and neither the provincial government nor the City of Winnipeg considered better suited locations in rural, semi -rural or industrial loca tions such as the St. Boniface industrial park, the 200,000 acres at CentrePort or existing properties such as the Shriners Hospital or the old Children's Hospital on Wellington Crescent.

(3) The provincial government is exempt from any zoning requirement s that would have existed if the land had been owned by the City. This exemption bypasses community input and due diligence and ignores better uses for the land which would be consistent with a residential area.

(4) There are no standards that one would expect for a treatment centre. The Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living has stated that the department of Health had no role to play in the land

2348 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2018 acquisition for this Manitoba Housing project for use as a drug addiction facility.

(5) The Manitoba H ousing project initiated by the provincial government changes the fundamental nature of the community, including park and recreation uses. Concerns with the residents of St. James and others regarding public safety, property values and their way of life ar e not being properly addressed.

(6) The concerns of the residents of St. James are being ignored while obvious other locations in wealthier neighbourhoods, such as Tuxedo or River Heights, have not been considered for this Manitoba Housing project, even though there are hundreds of acres of land available for development at Kapyong Barracks or parks like Heubach Park that share the same zoning as the Vimy Arena site.

(7) The Manitoba Housing project and the operation of a drug treatment centre fall outs ide the statutory mandate of Manitoba Housing renewal corporation.

(8) The provincial government does not have a co-ordinated plan for addiction treatment in Manitoba, as it currently underfunds treatment centres which are running far under capacity and potential.

(9) The community has been misled regarding the true intention of Manitoba Housing, and the land is being transferred for a 50 -bed facility even though the project is clearly outside of Manitoba Housing responsibility. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba:

(1) To urge the provincial government to take the necessary steps to ensure that the Vimy Arena site is not used for an addiction treatment facility.

(2) To urge the provincial government to take the necessary steps to ensure the preservation of public land along Sturgeon Creek for the purposes of park land and recreational activities for public use, including being an important component of the Sturgeon Creek Greenway Trail and the Sturgeon Creek ecosystem under the cur rent designation of PR2 for the 255 Hamilton Ave. location at the Vimy Arena site, and to maintain the land to continue to be designated for parks and recreation active neighbourhoods and communities.

This petition has been signed by Antonia [phonetic] Russo, Gerald [phonetic] Russo, Doug Demenier [phonetic] and many others. Madam Speaker: The petition was not read as printed. Is there leave to accept the petition as printed? [Agreed] TO THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA: The background to this petition is as follows: 1. The residents of St. James and other areas of Manitoba are concerned with the intention expressed by the the Provincial Government to use the Vimy Arena site as a Manitoba Housing project. 2.

The Vimy Arena site is in the middle of a residential area near many schools, churches, community clubs and senior homes and neither the Provincial Government nor the City of Winnipeg considered better suited locations in rural, semi - rural or industrial locations such as: the St. Boniface industrial park, the 20,000 acres at Centre Port or existing properties such as the Shriner 's Hospital or the old Children's Hospital on Wellington Crescent. 3. The Provincial Government is exempt from any zoning requirements that would have existed if the land was owned by the City of Winnipeg.

This exemption bypasses community input and due diligence and ignores better uses for the land which would be consistent with a residential area. 4. There are no standards that one would expect for a treatment centre. The Mi nister of Health, Seniors and Active Living has stated that the department of Health had no role to play in the land acquisition for this Manitoba Housing project for use as a drug addiction facility. 5. The Manitoba Housing project initiated by the Provincial Government changes the fundamental nature of the community. Including park and recreation uses, concerns of the residents of St.

James and others regarding public safety, property values, and their way of life are not being properly addressed. 6. The concerns of the residents of St. James are being ignored while obvious other locations in wealthier other neighbourhoods, such as Tuxedo and River Heights, have not been considered for this Manitoba Housing project even though there are hundreds of acres of land available for development at Kapyong Barracks or parks like Heubach Park that share the same zoning as the Vimy Arena site.

May 16, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2349 7. The Manitoba Housing project and the operation of a drug treatment centre fall outside the statutory mandate of the Mani toba Housing Renewal Corporation. 8. The Provincial Government does not have a coordinated plan for addiction treatment in Manitoba, as it currently underfunds treatment centres which are running far under capacity and potential. 9. The community has been misled regarding the true intention of Manitoba Housing, as land is being transferred for a 50 bed facility even though the project is clearly outside of Manitoba Housing's responsibility.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: 1. To urge the Provincial Government to take the necessary steps to ensure that the Vimy Arena site is not used for an addiction treatment facility. 2.

To urge the Provincial Government to take the necessary steps to ensure the preservation of public land along Sturgeon Creek for the purposes of park land and recreational activities for public use (including being an important component of the Sturgeon Creek Greenway Trail and the Sturgeon Creek ecosystem ) under the current designation of PR2 for the 255 Ham ilton Ave nue location at the Vimy Arena site, and to maintain the land to continue to be designated for Parks and Recreation Active Neighbourhood/Community. Tina Fontaine–Public Inquiry Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St.

Johns ): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) Tina Fontaine was murdered at the age of 15 years, and her body was found in the Red River on August 17th, 2014.

(2) Tina Fontaine was robbed of her loving family and th e Anishinabe community of Sagkeeng First Nation.

(3) Tina Fontaine was failed by multiple systems which did not protect her as they intervened in her life.

(4) Tina Fontaine was further failed by systems meant to seek and pursue justice for her murder.

(5) Tina Fontaine's murder galvanized Canada on the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, MMIWG, as she quickly became our collective daughter and the symbol of MMIWG across Canada.

(6) Manitoba has failed to fully implement the recommendations of numerous reports and recommendations meant to improve and protect the lives of indigenous peoples and children, including the Manitoba Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples and the Phoenix Sinclair inquiry. * (14:50) We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Premier of Manitoba and the Minister of Justice to immediately call a public inquiry into the systems that had a role in the life and death of Tina Fontaine, as well as the function of the administration of justice after her death.

(2) To urge that the terms of reference of a public inquiry be developed jointly with the caregivers of Tina Fontaine and/or the agent appointed by them. Signed by many Manitobans. Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Cliff Cullen (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, would you call Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider Estimates this afternoon. The House will now resolve itself into Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) INDIGENOUS AND NORTHERN RELATIONS * (15:00) The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Indigenous and Northern Relations. As previously

2350 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2018 agreed, questioning for this department will pr oceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Good afternoon and thanks, everyone, for being here again, today. A couple of questions. In April of 2017 the Department of Indigenous and Municipal Relations included $1.5 million in funding for the Metis Economic Development Fund. That budget was passed and approved by this Legislature. However, the Metis Economic Deve lopment Fund was told it would only receive $450,000 in funding, and the rest was denied.

If the government had planned to provide this amount of funding in its budget, why did it break that promise? Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Northern Relations): I thank the member opposite for taking time today to come and engage again and talk about indigenous relations in our government. It's been two years of really getting to know our First Nations as well as the Manitoba Metis Federation, and during that time we've had extensive consultations on a lot of different issues.

And I have to acknowledge at this time –and I have to thank Grand Chief Jerry Daniels, grand chief Sheila Wilson and–as well as our Grand Chief Arlen Dumas and the Northern Af fairs communities, all the leadership there for respectful engagement and taking the time to –not only to myself, but to my staff–some of them being new –and talking about the past and also giving us –pardon me –their vision of the future and where they would like to go.

And, you know, we spent extensive time talking about what hadn't worked in the past and what types of issues that were concerning them and, you know, tried to acknowledge what could be different going forward. And, of course, they bring forward issues that go back in a –and I think treaty land entitlement, of course, was one of them where the previous government in three years had done absolutely nothing. And we were very pleased at the end of 2017 to have transferred over 43 different parcel s of land throughout the province for treaty land entitlement.

This showed faith in our government and helped to fulfill their expectations. When they came forward in their meetings and felt disrespected –and there was certainly a lack of trust–that concerned me. I've spent a lifetime working with people and trying to better people's lives, so to see that our First Nations –and even the Metis Federation, when President Chartrand indicated that there'd been absolutely no meetings between him and the Aboriginal minister for 10 years, and just the fact that we can sit down and have a conversation, and more than willing to talk about the past.

But I really wanted to hear from our individual leaderships across the province, where they wanted to go in the future, and I was very straightforward with them. We had lots of requests for funding during those meetings for various events and various projects, and I took the time to explain to them the financial position that our government had been left in. And we talke d about that extensively because they also indicated many of them too had had financial struggles in the past. Some of them were still in that position, being in third -party management.

And they spoke about their desire to be self-sufficient and to be able to handle their own affairs financially. They wanted to do better within their respective communities. They wanted to be able to provide a good lifestyle for their youth and their children going forward and leave them a legacy. And I think that's where we all agreed. We were all working towards the same goals and we very quickly acknowledged that.

And it was interesting that, as our meetings progressed and we met for second and third times, whichever, that it was soon that we weren't talking about the finances at all, we were talking about how we could better our relationships and who our partners had to be going forward in that fact so that we could better serve–they could better serve their communities and the people in it and how we as a government coul d serve them and meet their challenges better.

And, you know, after two short years, we've come a long ways and we look forward to partnering with our First Nations going forward and ensuring that, as well as the Manitoba Metis Federation, in ensuring that we have a solid working relationship so that we can do more projects and be more successful in the future. Mr. Lindsey: Well, that was quite the answer to the question. In April of 2017, the Department of Indigenous and Municipal Relations, that's thi s government,

May 16, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2351 that's you, this minister, you've included $1.5 million in funding for the Metis Economic Development Fund. That budget was passed and approved by the Legislature. However, after that, the government told the Metis Economic Development Fund t hat, no, you're not getting $1.5 million that we previously agreed to. You're only getting $450,000. If that was the case, why did this government agree to the $1.5 million to start with if they had no intention of actually delivering on that? Ms.

Clarke: Well–and I thank the member opposite for the question–and, in fact, I think you've been hearing extensively over the past months that we're a government that is analyzing a lot of the funding that was taking place in the past, and that was also a part of those conversations that I spoke to in my first response.

Looking at the different funding that had been in place and funding that should go forward–and I would like to acknowledge that the initial amount that was funded to the Manitoba Metis Federation was, in fact, for their operating costs, which, you know, they would be expecting, and that certainly was put forward towards them. And I think the member opposite also knows that we have acknowledged, on more than one occasion, that we are completely re -evaluating all economic development across the province. And that continues.

We know that economic development, whether it's on our First Nations or municipalities all across the province, that there is –there's an abundance of opportunity, but we want to make sure that we make the best decisions and that we get value for money in regards to economic development. * (15:10) I know that the member opposite is aware of Look North and the opportunities up there. We've had announcements in northern Manitoba looking and working with–membership on that committee for Look North was from many different communities. It was indigenous and non- indigenous as well.

We've got mayors and reeves that were involved and also chiefs of our First Nations looking towards partnerships and working together so that we can have the best outcomes. We realize that the province of Manitoba provides a lot of opportunity, and the event that was held–it was hosted, actually, by the southern chiefs in Manitoba along with municipalities, an d it was exactly working towards this.

And these partnerships that have been formed with First Nations and municipalities, as well as other partnerships – businesses that are included as well in our chambers of commerce–is really building on a strong Manitoba going forward. And I think we're going to be seeing some great incomes. The event that I attended was –like, it was actually intended for networking, also learning and sharing experiences, both from our First Nations and our municipalities. And we're see ing so many new relationships, and that's really exciting.

And I think what we've come to realize right from day one is that our First Nations leaders as well as our municipal leaders were not accustomed to working together, and that was new. And they kind of had to get to know each other. And I have to thank our First Nations for taking the leadership in this –in some cases. Grand Chief Jerry Daniels arranged a meeting last year in 2017, specifically for the reason of getting to know all the membership within the Capital Region group that we have. And that was a historical event because it was just getting to know each other.

They discussed who each of them were, what their roles were and what their responsibilities. And then I believe there was a short dis cussion on shared services and shared projects, and that's already happening. And they are really hoping to build on that. And the event that was held most recently was well attended, and from all intents, I think the response that I've had from our First Nations chiefs and council members that were in attendance –they were listening. They brought in speakers from other provinces where this is already happening.

So Gladstone–or–pardon me–Manitoba's really happy to be going down that journey with our First N ations and municipalities, and we look forward to really strong economic development in our province. Mr. Lindsey: So, in relation to this funding that was to be supplied to the Metis Economic Development Fund, and it was approved in April 2017, and the government informed them at that time that they would–no, the government waited until March of 2018 to inform the Metis Economic Development Fund that it wouldn't be receiving the funds that had previously been approved.

So why did the Province then wait until the end of the fiscal year to inform the Metis Economic Development Fund that it wouldn't receive the funds that it previously had agreed to provide?

2352 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2018 Ms. Clarke: Well, I don't know if the member opposite has had the opportunity to sit down with the Manitoba Metis Federation and President Chartrand, as well as all the ministers, but I've enjoyed many meetings with them as a group or individually. We have probably had more meetings with the Manitoba Metis Federation than most, and they've been very cordial meetings. And I have to acknowledge the Manitoba Metis Federation.

They are a very efficient run group, and they have done some great things in regards to economic development, but they also–they have a strong membership. And I would suggest, if you get the opportunity to attend one of their annual general assemblies, that you do. They are–well, there was housing announced just this week in Selkirk with the Manitoba Metis Federation and the Province of Manitoba, and that just goes to speak about the partnerships that are happening. And we will continue working with them in regards to economic development.

They are a partner in going forward and I know that our government is very optimistic about economic development throughout the province of Manitoba, and we'll continue working with all these different groups that we are currently involved with and, you know, we'll continue that partnership. Mr. Lindsey: So the question was about, why wait the full year when the money was approved in 2017 April. They get told in March of 2018 that oh, yes, by the way, you're not getting the funding that we previously said you were getting.

So what reason is there for waiting that full period until the end of the fiscal year before telling them that they're not getting the money that they obviously had to budget for? Ms. Clarke: The member opposite implies that the Manitoba Metis economic development was not aware of this. In fact, our staff was in ongoing conversations with them. So this –I don't believe this came as a surprise as you've indicated. There was conversations ongoing and, you know, we try and be very transparent with them. We haven't –we have a very good relationship with the Metis Federation. Mr.

Lindsey: Well, I might question how good your relationship–not the minister personally, but how good this government's relationship is with the Manitoba Metis Federation when you're on your way to court because of disputes with that very same organization. So did the decision to not fulfill the commitment to the Metis Economic Development Fund, did it have any relationship to the ongoing discussions regarding the Metis relationship agreement with Manitoba Hydro? Ms. Clarke: Well, the implications that the member opposite implies are totally not true.

And that's what I appreciate, probably, about President Chartrand the most is he is very, very adamant about keeping individual issues individual, and he stays focused as to where he takes an issue and where he doesn't. And, as you could see, as I already indicated, he did a great announcement this week with our minister of housing. I have had meetings with President Chartrand. I have had meetings with some of his ministers in regards to Metis friendship centres and other issues, and there is absolutely a cordial and respectful relationship that continues.

There will always be issues that we deal with as a government and we do not –you know, if we have one issue that is not going down the right track for either partner, we don't dwell on that. We've got a job to do and we stay respectful and professional. Mr. Lindsey: That is, in fact, all the questions I have for this minister. The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson): Okay. Thank you very much. Seeing no further questions, we'll now deal with the resolutions.

So the first resolution is Resolution 19.2: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $30,276,000 for Indigenous and Northern Relations, Indigenous and Northern Relations, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2019. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 19.3:

Be it RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $96,000 for Indigenous and Northern Relations, Costs Related to Capital Assets, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2019. Resolution agreed to. The last item to be considered for Estimates of this department is item 19.1.(a), the minister's salary, contained in resolution 19.1.

May 16, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2353 At this point, we'll request that the minister's staff leave the table for the consideration of this last item. * (15:20) So the floor is now open for questions. We have any questions? Mr. Lindsey: I move that line item 19.1.(

a) be amended so that the Minister of Indigenous and Northern Relations' salary be reduced to $33,600. Motion presented. The Acting Chairperson (Len I sleifson): The motion is in order. Are there any questions or comments on this motion? Okay, hearing none, is the committee ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson): Shall the motion pass? Some Honourable Members: No. The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson ): Okay, I hear a no. Voice Vote The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson): All those in favour of the motion, please say aye. An Honourable Member: Aye.

The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson): All those opposed to the motion, please say nay. Some Honourable Members: Nay. The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson ): It is my opinion that the Nays have it. * * * The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson): Okay, we have here Resolution 19.1:

Be it RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $904,000 for Indigenous and Northern Relations, Administration and Finance, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2019. Resolution agreed to. This completes the Estimates for the department of 'inigeous' and northern relations. This also concludes our consideration of the Estimates in this

section of the Committee of Supply meeting in room 254. I would like to thank the ministers, the critics and all honourable members for their hard work and dedication during this process. Committee will recess until 5 p.m. FAMILIES * (15:00) Mr. Chairperson (Dennis Smook): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Families. As previously agreed, questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I'll continue on where my colleague from –MLA from St. Johns left off. I believe she was talking about inclusion supports, which we've been raising in the House for the last f ew days. So the question I have for the minister: Have there been any policy changes to the inclusion support program since the summer of 2017? Hon.

Scott Fielding (Minister of Families ): Yes, so, as–you know, we spoke a little bit about this in the House, but I'll reiterate. So, essentially, we did have the program under review. I think that was well documented in the media, and so there's been no changes to the criteria of the program whatsoever. We did review it to see how other jurisdictions are do ing it and the amount of funding is in place. We did find that the funding wasn't adequate and so we've really kind of moved and we'll making kind of the details public when they're finalized with the federal government.

So we are investing about 10 point –I believe – $6 million of the $47- million investment to enhancements of the inclusion support and, really, they revolve around–you know, although we haven't announced the overall details of any changes, but – essentially it will be a dual stream. So there' s children with autism, there's kind of higher -needs children, so it will be kind of two streams and–so they'll get more services and support.

2354 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2018 I will say part of this dual stream, they'll be able to be supported a little bit better depending on, you know, which stream they'll go into. So it's an 'emphansis' to streamline that that hasn't been announced, that will be announced soon, but we have given kind of some global indications of where we think the program needs to go. Mrs. Smith: Does the minister h ave a timeline on when this–when exactly this $10.7 million will be in place to support these families? Mr.

Fielding: Well, we committed the 10 -point–I'll say 10 and change –I believe the exact number is 10.6. So that will be implement –it's a three -year program so that will be implemented, you know, over the next two years and the details will be announced, you know, in the near-distant future. Mrs. Smith: So is it the near future, or distant future? Mr. Fielding : I got in trouble when I said in the coming days versus the coming weeks, so I'll say in the coming weeks. Mrs.

Smith: In the past two fiscal years the actual expenditures for inclusion support services have gone beyond what the minister has seemed to budget for 2018- 19. Will the minister commit to going beyond his budget if the number of children requiring inclusion support service exceeds the budget? Mr. Field ing: Well, we think with the program it should support upwards of 700 children or more. It's–there isn't any parameters if –you know, there isn't a capping of the program, I guess I'll say, so if you hit the criteria of the program, then it is supported. Mrs.

Smith: So is that a, yes, that those –you'll go beyond the budget to support the families that need the extra support? Mr. Fielding : Right, yes. There isn't any plans to cap it. Like, there's not a certain global dollar figure that we anticipate. So, N o. 1–and, again, we will be announcing details. I can't get into that because I – you know, I want to–there –you know, we're going through the fine -tooth cones of the actual detail component. What I can say is that if you hit the criteria, right now you wil l get– you know, you will get the services and support, and so we don't anticipate that changing. Mr.

Chairperson: The member for Point –or, sorry, the member–yes, from–member Point Douglas. Mrs. Smith: Has there been any changes to the criteria? Mr. Fielding: I just do want –do–correct the record. So there is 1,600 children that are supported, but with the bilateral agreement, the 10.6 some -odd million dollars–we anticipate, you know, there'll be 700–what I'll say families are supported because families are part of the children that are there. I think the question was related to criteria of the program.

No, we don't anticipate any major changes to the criteria of the program, although, you know, again, the structure of that and creating kind of more of a dual stream. You know, we have heard that there is too much–a bit too much red tape and bureaucracy that were there, and so that's why we wanted to do a review to see what other jurisdictions are doing. And so there was an opportunity to partner with the federal government to enhance the program.

Part of some of the federal government investments not just for, you know, for this –the–you know, the inclusion support portions of things. * (15:10) But, anyways, we prioritized it based on what the needs of t he federal program or the –what I'll say the criteria the federal program, the bilateral agreement was in place. So we don't anticipate any major changes with the criteria, but there, again, will be kind of a dual stream to kind of, I don't want to say sort things out, but allow for more focused support in these particular areas. Mrs.

Smith: Can the minister tell us which line in the budget that the 10.6-odd million dollars is in? Mr. Fielding: Okay, I'll refer you to page 83 of the Supplementary Information on Legislative Review for Families. So it's within the budget line, right, the $178,977; it is incorporated in there. And, again, I think I quoted the exact numbers yesterday, but it was ro ughly around $12 million, you know, and I don't have the exact number in front of me right now, but $12 million, and it's gone up to, I think over $17 million.

I can get the exact numbers but I did quote that yesterday or the–or rather the last day that we had Estimates, which was, I guess, on– it's getting late–I guess two days ago.

May 16, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2355 Mrs. Smith: Can the minister tell us how he interprets the child -care acts' regulation 62 -68, specifically, sections 5(a), and its accompanying policy, which says, licensed fac ilities can establish their own inclusion policies. Have there been any changes to this policy? Mr. Fielding : If I could get –you quoted the –you know, you might –I don't carry this around in my back pocket, so if you could just quote what subsections you're talking about. I don't believe you– there was any changes to that at all.

But if you –if I could get you to quote that again and I can just make sure, you know, I have the right information from our officials to verify. Mrs. Smith: Mr. Chair, 62- slash-68, sections 5(

a) deal specifically with child -care centres opening up and having to have an inclusion policy so that if applications come in that that's included. Mr. Fielding: Well, I answer that in two parts, and I actually try and answer the question on this. Number 1, there hasn't been any changes because we haven't, really, you know, we haven't introduced, kind of, the details of the program. But we don't anticipate there'll be any change to that subsection of the regulations that you're referring to as we go forward. Mrs.

Smith: So the minister talked about –I asked a question earlier about inclusion supports and often going over budget; you referenced $10 million. Does that mean–is that an indication that the minister will no longer be increasing funding to cover all applications? Mr. Fielding: Right, so the program is, you know, kind of what I refer to as a mandated program, which basically means we pay out on what, you know, kind of, the applications that we get, essentially, and they meet–if you m eet the criteria, then you'll get the services and support.

So whether there is –and, again, we will be making, kind of, some announcements later on, the finer tuned details of it. But, no, we don't anticipate any changes. If you are –if you hit the criteria for the program, then we will support that. Mrs. Smith: So that means you will go over budget if there is a need for families that require these supports. That's great to hear. The regulation 5(a) 62- 68 says that the program or the department policy is that licensed facilities can create their own policy. Has th e minister directed licensed facilities to change their inclusive –inclusion policies at all? Mr.

Fielding: Right. So that regulation really speaks to the nature to saying, you know, that child- care centres, you know, have to have, essentially, a policy and have to –they can't exclude children that would need what I'll say, higher needs, or, you know, maybe children with autism or anything else that are there. So it just speaks to the universal nature of the program in and itself. Mrs. Smith: So I get that c entres need to have–like, they're regulated to have inclusion policies, but what I'm asking is if the minister directed centres to change their policy at all around inclusion supports. Mr.

Fielding : Right. I guess what I'll say is, you know, for a centre to open up, to get a licence and/or to have a licence renewal, they essentially need to agree to this parameter, which is –again, it more speaks to ensuring that they will accept children that may meet the criteria of the program, so it ensures that. To date, at least from our officials' point of view, we haven't heard of any cases that the centres don't agree to this. But if that was the case, in so many different ways there's– you know, we would be able to, you know, work with the centres to ensure that they do meet those criteria.

I would also say, you know, if that is a part of the criteria or one of the elements of the criteria of licensing, that would become a factor when you either decide to create a licence or when you decide to renew a licence. So I hope that clarifies the situation. Mrs. Smith: Does a department review these inclusion policies that come in from these licensed facilities, and do they need to submit them to the department? Mr. Fielding : Right. So, as part of the licensing process, whether you're establishing a new licence or you’re renewing licences, the co -ordinator would review that.

That's–we need to ensure that centres, as they, you know, create a new centre or they get renewed, that they have, you know, agreed to these polici es that are in place. So, to answer your question is yes. Mrs. Smith: Is there feedback provided on these policies?

2356 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2018 * (15:20) Mr. Fielding: Well, what I will say is, yes. Part of the review we–and I have regular dialogue with the Child Care Association a nd other providers, so for sure there was dialogue happening on any changes that we were making and there is dialogue on this

section as well, right? There was fairly extensive– and I think the Child Care Association identified that last year as one of thei r priority items to address, to make some changes to. So we try to follow what the Child Care Association does have in place. And, again, there is that dialogue with the co-ordinators and the service providers, the licensing process that would allow that dialogue to happen.

I can tell you, you know, again, just that we haven't had a case where someone who's applying for a licence and/or trying for a renewal does not agree with the policy as, you know, what they're looking to attain in the regulations. So we haven't come across that. We did consult and we're basing the new policy that we're establishing with the federal government toward the dual stream based on some feedback that we heard from child-care sector, so. Mrs. Smith: How are the facilities governed? Mr. Fielding : Right, okay, so the vast majority of these centres are governed by boards.

There's a– there, I believe, is a requirement to have some sort of parent on that board. The enforcement side of that, of course, with–is done through–obviously through licensing process, and that is administered through our branch. Mrs. Smith: Have you received any submissions from facilities since undertaking the review and, if so, which ones? Mr. Fielding: Right, so we did receive a letter from the Manitoba Child Care Association. We also have had, you know, for the most

part in terms of our practices we are meeting with the Child Care Association on a fairly regular basis. This issue has been–in fact, I think we've met with them –whether Pat Wege or the new executive director will be coming up fairly soon. Discussions have been had and it has been fairly open in their circular, right? They've got a, kind of a newsletter and kin d of an active social media elements and things, and so I think their desire for us to enhance, streamline the program has been pretty well documented and we have had some extensive conversations.

And to be fair, when we did our review we did consult with the associations, I'll say, about the changes, and I think for the most part the association–Manitoba Child Care Association, based on Pat Wedge's comments, when we did, you know, kind of, release the whole bilateral agreement with the federal government was well embraced. Mrs. Smith: So have there been any submissions for renewal of licences or new licences? Mr. Fielding : Yes, so, with the review process –so the licences, obviously, are issued.

We have, based off a independent officer's recommendations –I think it was in 2014; I'll have to get back to you, if that's the exact date–said that we should be focused in on, like, with the child -care sector, there are some that are–that do a very good job. They've got a very good track record that are there, and some that need a little bit more support. So be able to move, based on what, and I believe it was the Auditor General or it was the –what's the other? [interjection] Ombudsman. I'll have to get back to you–is one of that.

But an independent report that basically came back and said, you should move towards more of an area where you're going to give more supports to people that need them, centres that may need them. The ones that are doing really well are compliant, there's no issues, then they would still be granted an– kind of a licence on an annual basis. But the supports would go more towards the ones that need more supports. So we pilot that out, and we announce that –I guess it was last March, I believe–last year. I'll say last year.

And so we think that's gone well, and that's based off an independent officer's recommendations of moving towards it. And I think that is been very well supported by the Ma nitoba Child Care Association. Mrs. Smith: So is there no new centres that have put in applications to open? Mr. Fielding: Well, you're–you know, again would need to get licensed again, right, so that's, you know, for the most part, on an annual basis. So, to answer your question, is yes, everyone's applied for a new – you know, everyone has applied for a new licence, there has been new centres that have opened, as

May 16, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2357 you'll always have. What I'm saying, that's kind of an annual basis for, really, all centres. Mrs. Smith: So what I'm –I realize that there's new spaces that open every year, that there's centres that, you know, get renewed. What I'm asking, though, is if–what–where are the new centres that have opened, if you could provide those, which areas, where in Manitoba? Mr.

Fielding : Right, well, I guess, I'll put on the record last March we announced, I believe it was – well, say, I don't have an exact number of centres that opened up, but there was hundreds of new spaces that were created. If you're asking form last year, '17 or '18, I do have a listing of the centres. It was over 607 different spaces that were created in areas like the YMCA, YWCA, Great-West Life–that was 100, at places like Building Blocks on Balmoral.

By the way, I'll just emphasize, that is a beautiful–if any of you get a chance to go to that centre, it's a beautiful centre, kind of a model of what–kind of a public -private partnership with centres can happen. * (15:30) Ryerson school opened 48 spots; Kids In Day Care Are Super Inc. and École in–kind of south–the South Pointe area, 23 spots got to not, you know, announce some of these names right, but I'll just go through a little bit more of a laundry list.

Laugh 'N' Learn early learning child -care centre in Donwood School, 74; Harrow Co- operative Children's Centre at Harrow School, 74; Sage Creek Rainbow Day Nursery, which is 144 spots; Little Saints Learning Centre, for 48 spots; Little Voyageurs Learning Centre at Marion School, 24 spots and areas like Thompson Children's World–so, yes. Mrs. Smith: Can the minister provide that list to me? I'd appreciate it. And can you also pr ovide the department policy on inclusion supports? Mr. Fielding: Right, we will be able to provide that listing in the time frames that's allotted through the Estimates process. Mrs.

Smith: Can the minister say how he interprets regulation 62-86, subsection 37(3.1), (3.2)? Same as a sector. Mr. Fielding: Well, I think the member –and again, you're throwing numbers at me, so if you're talking about inclusion support 37.31 or 37.32, I want to clarify if that is the case. You know, I mean, I can read this verbatim what it says in the act. I don't know what your definition of interpret that really means. So maybe just –like, what are you asking? I don't quite understand. Mrs. Smith: So there seems to be a discrepancy in how the minister perceives it and how the staff are perceiving it.

I have a House note here, it says, the sector has interpreted Manitoba child -care regulation 62- 86, subsection 37(3.1), (3.2) as a staffing grant should be based on actual costs incurred by the facility or extra staffing. However, the regulation specifies that ELCC program director must be satisfied that the cost of the grant for extra staffing is reasonable and provides appropriate for the child's needs. The sector's

interpretation has limited budget reduction strategies. And then the next line's blacked out. Mr. Fielding : Well, as minister of the department, I'll say that we do follow all regulations that are within the act and within regulations, so, you know, there–just to be clear, there's total consistency with anything the department says and the minister says. I can tell you that staff and grants amount are based on the centre's salary scale for newly hired staff at the child-care centre assistance level.

The number of hours for additional staffing is based on the needs of a child's hours, of a child's attendance and the centre's capacity to meet those needs within the regular or enhanced staff -to-child ratios. It is stipulated that the director must be satisfied that the cost of extra staffing is reasonable and support provided to the child is appropriate for his or her needs. The child's individual program plan is reviewed at least annually and support hours may be adjusted based on the child's current ne eds and/or the centre's capacity. Mrs.

Smith: So we were talking about policy earlier and daycare facilities. Is there–has the department initiated any programs to ensure that they're complying with the policies as written? Mr. Fielding : Right, well, I guess what I'll say is there is regular contact with the co -ordinators with the child-care sector and the child-care centres, but to answer your question, really, that's done through the licensing process. Mrs. Smith: So just to go back to this regulation. So can the minister tell me how he interprets this regulation: regulation 62-86 subsection 37, 3.1, 3.2?

2358 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA May 16, 2018 Mr. Fielding: Well, respectfully, I'm not really into the got-you types of questions. I do want to answer your question, so I'll say I interpret it the way it's written on the paper in the regulations. Mrs. Smith: So is that different from what a director would interpret it or, you know, is the minister interpreting different? Mr. Fielding : Well, I'd say that we have talented staff that do their job. They co -ordinate this process. The regulations are in place to be followed.

We would anticipate that the regulations that are in place are followed and, you know, that is the role as administrators–and, you know, just to give them a compliment, I think the y do a fabulous job at their work and co- ordinating a number of the child -care rules, regulations that we think will make a big difference not just to help establish child cares, but also have them renewed, but also provide supports and services really to the ones that need it.

And I think what you'll find in the child- care sector, because a lot of the boards are administered and I know, just in our personal life, although I've never been on a child -care board and we've done a number of different types of child care over the course of our lives, they're very busy people, right, and so sometimes some centres may need a little bit more help than others. So that's really what our staff is there for. They're there to help co -ordinate and the approach that we 've taken follows upon what the Auditor General had recommended us to do and so that's the policy changes that we made.

But, again, you know, I'll interpret the regulation exactly the way it's written in the book. Mrs. Smith: So does that mean if a direct or comes forward and says that a child needs more support which requires more staff that that actually would – that they actually would get their request granted? Mr. Fielding : Well, the process, obviously people would–that's an application -based process an d so there is a criteria around that so the staff will work with the parents, work with the centres on appropriate care process that's in place. But, again, that is something that there's a criteria that's set out.

That's a process they work with the centr es to develop an appropriate level of care for those centres. Again, we have taken great priority in terms of re-profiling in the inclusion support program. You know, we had a choice, I guess, when we worked with the federal government on the bilateral agreement of $47 million, and we decided to make some important investments in that area and had an opportune time to streamline the program and make it more efficient and effective.

Again, what we heard, clearly, from people that had children in the program, that it needed to be streamlined, needed to be more efficient and effective and more responsive, essentially, to parents and the child that met the criteria of the program to be developed. Mrs. Smith: So, i n this House book note, it says reasonable request. What does it mean request to be reasonable? * (15:40) Mr. Fielding: Right. So there, you know, again–so there's an application -based process, and there's a criteria that you have to meet.

Once someone do es apply through the application process, the branch will work with the centre, No. 1, to ensure that the plan that they have forward is going to meet the child's best needs. That's something that the branch and, you know, and the centre work together, to ensure that there's appropriate services and support for the child. Mrs. Smith: So I think that child -care centres are interpreting this differently than the minister is.

So the child -care centres are under the guise that if a child in their centre or coming into their centre needs extra supports and it's beyond the budget of this department, that those supports will be granted regardless of whether there's funds to support it or not. Mr. Fielding : Well, there's no question that the program needed to be r eviewed and needed to be made more efficient and effective. That's something that we heard clearly from the child -care sector. So that's something that we endeavour to do. We decided to make it a priority, and we –you know, we looked at all the areas.

When there's an opportunity to work with the federal government to create more child -care spaces under the parameters of the bilateral agreement, you've got to make some choices. And so we made a choice to provide additional support and streamline the process to make it more user -friendly, supportive of children, supportive of families and supportive of the sector. I'm sure the member wouldn't just agree –or probably would agree that there needs to be a process in government, right, where a plan is develope d and

May 16, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2359 there needs to be agreed upon from the centres as well as the branch to make sure that dollars are spending more efficiently. Because if you don't have a system where dollars aren't spent more efficiently, you know, that potentially could be less money in a whole bunch of different ways or less resources for children that need it best inside the window of, you know, the fact that it's a mandated program. So that is a normal process for, really, any program that's in place.

There's a plan that the centre, the families, work with, with the branch, to ensure that the services and supports are there. And, quite clearly, we've heard from the child -care sector that changes needed to be made, and we did that review, and we invested close to $10.6 million ove r two years to streamline the program to make it more efficient and effective. Mrs. Smith: So that's great to hear that the minister's saying that he'll approve every single application for every single child that comes into these centres that needs it be yond budgetary restraints.

Will he –he talked about streamlining the program earlier. Could he give us details about the changes that the department has made to the inclusion support program? Mr. Fielding : Just want to make sure that correct information is being put on the record. So the program is in place. There is criteria that we, you know, anticipate or we would expect centres as w

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-3-49
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 3rd hansardpdf 49.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	5c2c9d67cbb4bc7b9226f8ff8b3be68f8cda5a31

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