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April 11, 2000

37th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcript 2000-Apr-11 (PDF)

L040 - Tue 11 Apr 2000 / Mar 11 avr 2000

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

SUPPORT FOR AGRICULTURE

NATIONAL VOLUNTEER WEEK

PROPERTY TAXATION

NATIONAL VOLUNTEER WEEK

OFFICE OF THE WORKER ADVISER

EDUCATION FUNDING

FRIENDSHIP SERIES HOCKEY

FAMILY RESPONSIBILITY OFFICE

MEMBER FOR OTTAWA CENTRE

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

MINISTRY OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES AMENDMENT ACT (PUBLIC OWNERSHIP AND STAFFING), 2000 / LOI DE 2000 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR LE MINISTÈRE DES SERVICES CORRECTIONNELS (PROPRIÉTÉ PUBLIQUE ET DOTATION EN PERSONNEL)

MOTIONS

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

ORAL QUESTIONS

WATER EXTRACTION

ONTARIO REALTY CORP

NURSING HOMES

CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES

VISITOR

HOSPITAL FUNDING

TEACHER TESTING

HOSPITAL FUNDING

PEACE BRIDGE

SCARBOROUGH FIRE

AIR QUALITY

RURAL HEALTH SERVICES

CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY

SALE OF ILLEGAL DRUGS

HOSPITAL FUNDING

PETITIONS

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

PROTECTION OF MINORS

HIGHWAY SAFETY

LORD'S PRAYER

INTERNATIONAL ADOPTIONS

PROTECTION OF MINORS

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

KARLA HOMOLKA

EDUCATION FUNDING

ABORTION

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

ABORTION

TIMBER CUTTING

ORDERS OF THE DAY

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

TECHNICAL STANDARDS AND SAFETY ACT, 1999 / LOI DE 1999 SUR LES NORMES TECHNIQUES ET LA SÉCURITÉ

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

SUPPORT FOR AGRICULTURE

Mr Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): My statement today is directed to the Premier and the Minister of Agriculture.

I'm only too aware that the cuts to OMAFRA offices have taken place and are now complete. The second-largest industry in Ontario has been dealt a blow. However, I believe that a responsible government is one that recognizes its mistakes and corrects them. I believe this is just such a situation. I'm aware that literally thousands of individuals have signed petitions and sent them to the Premier and minister, imploring them not to make the cuts.

These signatures aren't from people unfamiliar with the situation; these are farmers who know only too personally what these cuts will do to their farms, their families and their communities. I will be sending some of these petitions over to the minister shortly.

It goes without saying that this government listens, and listens well, to suggestions coming from large industry. The attendees at the numerous fundraising functions bear testimony to that. I applaud this listening, but farmers are businesses too and are true experts in their calling. They deserve better treatment and more respect than they are currently receiving.

My perusal of the media every day clearly shows that the Premier thrives on being present at the expansion or opening of a new industry. I challenge the Premier to just once excuse himself from his Bay Street friends for a day and attend the auction sale of a farm going out of business. I think the suggestions and comments he would hear from these farmers would be informative and interesting.

NATIONAL VOLUNTEER WEEK

Mr Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): As you know, this is National Volunteer Week, and I'm honoured to support the people who enhance our quality of life in their communities as volunteers. I'm equally honoured to speak on behalf of the volunteer action centre which serves the Kitchener-Waterloo area and on behalf of my honourable friend the Minister of Health who was also invited to speak today.

This year's theme is the history of volunteering. In my new riding of Waterloo-Wellington we appreciate the historical role that volunteers have played in forming the social fabric of our towns and cities. I would especially point to the contributions of our service clubs, which have helped make our communities so strong. Men and women serve in clubs such as the Lions, Rotary, Optimist, Kinsmen and Legion, to name a few.

I cherish my own volunteer experience as a Big Brother. I had a Little Brother from 1987 to 1990, when he turned 17 and the program officially ended. Shortly after, I was elected to the Legislative Assembly-that would be in 1990-and I carry with me to this day fond memories of being a friend and mentor to someone who lacked the example of a positive older male role model. I continue to serve the Arthur area of Big Brothers as an honorary member of their board, and I strongly encourage involvement in this very worthwhile cause.

By looking back on how volunteering has formed ourselves and our communities, we can look ahead to even greater contributions by volunteers everywhere.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr Mario Sergio (York West): Sooner or later-and I would prefer to see it sooner than later-the Premier and his government will have to deal again with the issue of property tax reform. At the end of this year, the Band-Aid is going to come off, and I want to know, the homeowners in Toronto want to know, the seniors throughout Ontario want to know, the small business community wants to know, what you, Premier, are going to do. Are you going to work with the various groups, organizations and interested parties or are you going to apply another Band-Aid and continue with your patched-up job for another three years?

A responsible Premier would bring some stability and fairness to the system now.

Let me tell the Premier that seniors are being pushed to the wall, and they will react. They are facing a possible 61% property tax increase, and they will not put up with it. They will unite, they will organize and they will revolt. They will make their voices heard. It is an issue the government will have to deal with, sooner rather than later.

NATIONAL VOLUNTEER WEEK

Mr Wayne Wettlaufer (Kitchener Centre): Yesterday marked the beginning of National Volunteer Week, a week set aside to mark the outstanding contributions of volunteers in communities across Canada.

I know that volunteers make an immeasurable difference each day through their generous donations of time and talent, toward the betterment of our communities.

My own riding of Kitchener Centre, indeed all of Waterloo region, is fortunate to have many thousands of dedicated volunteers who donate hundreds of thousands of hours to support community projects, assist the less fortunate and welcome newcomers. Others aid the police, ambulance and fire services. Still others volunteer to coach, officiate or organize the many sports activities available to children and adults throughout the region. The arts community also benefits greatly from the work of volunteers who provide instruction, venues and encouragement to the many amateur theatre groups, choirs and bands in the area.

There are a few individuals among those many thousands whom I want to cite for their long and distinguished volunteer service to the Kitchener-Waterloo community. They are Eli Boich, Al Lucas and Ab Kropf, who have given unstintingly of their time and talent to the volunteer program at Freeport hospital. Frank Voisin, who has given freely of his time and money to our community, particularly in the area of health care, and the late Peter Hallman, who could be found at almost any time and place where he could be of help, are also worthy of note.

Several organizations should also be mentioned. They include the Kitchener-Waterloo Multicultural Centre and the K-W YMCA host program, the German-Canadian Business and Professional Association, and the K-W Oktoberfest Committee.

Mr Speaker, I invite you and all members of this Legislature to join me in saluting all of Kitchener-Waterloo's many volunteers, without whom our community would not have developed into the wonderful, welcoming and caring city that it is.

OFFICE OF THE WORKER ADVISER

Mr Steve Peters (Elgin-Middlesex-London): It was with great interest that I heard the comments made by the Minister of Labour yesterday regarding the Office of the Worker Adviser. The minister took great pains to emphasize that despite the 5% downsizing in all ministries, on top of all previous cuts, the minister is looking at increasing front-line services to the good workers of Ontario. They claim that they are both economizing and creating efficiencies in a program that is seriously deficient. It is clear that the minister is attempting to sugar-coat a program that is underfunded and understaffed.

For the last 13 months our local Office of the Worker Adviser has been short one full-time case worker. They have been informed that this position will not be filled. The backlog is at least six months before they will even open your file. Front-line staff have been told of a pending province-wide reorganization and that they can expect layoffs in the very near future.

My office has found that 90% of the clients forced to seek assistance through these offices are in dire financial straits, and most are ineligible for interim social assistance.

One can't help but think this is anther one of the Tories' ill-conceived plans that will negatively affect those the minister claims are such valued and treasured friends of this government.

The Minister of Labour should be forewarned that those on this side of the House will be closely monitoring any changes to the Office of the Worker Adviser, on behalf of all the injured workers in this province.

EDUCATION FUNDING

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): Over the weekend I read an interesting

article on education. One Scarborough parent, Sylvia Menezes, decided that enough is enough. "Fed up with the need for parent volunteering and fundraising because of funding cuts to education, Menezes would like parents across Ontario to stop all such efforts." I agree with her. It's for that reason my statement is related to this.

What parents are doing across the province through their volunteer efforts and their fundraising is making up for the failure of the funding formula of this province, and if parents don't stop they will continue to absorb and be a foil for the cuts of this government. That's what's happening. They're obviously clueing in that this is the result of the funding cuts, forcing more and more people to fundraise for essential things, and that is fundamentally wrong.

It's for that reason that when you underfund the education system, the Youth News Network, a corporate body, is interested in entering the student market, because they know that if they have a captive audience they can sell not just the news but their commercials to those students. That's why my bill is intended to ban such things. I urge people across the province that if they support such a banning of the Youth News Network, to let me know, but more importantly, to let them know as well.

FRIENDSHIP SERIES HOCKEY

Mr R. Gary Stewart (Peterborough): On the weekend of March 31, some of my colleagues and I travelled to Quebec to play hockey in the friendship series. The teams were made up of representatives from the National Assembly of Quebec and our own Ontario Legislature, including three former MPPs from the previous government.

On behalf of the team, I would like to sincerely thank the Quebec assembly for the hospitality and fellowship we were shown throughout the weekend.

This year, Molson's Cup went to Quebec for their outstanding hockey play. Ontario has been the winner of the cup for the past two series.

During the two-day event, a charity game is also played, and this year the game was played to raise money for the minor hockey association of Loretteville.

On behalf of our team, the Legiskaters, I would like to thank all three private hosts, Molson's Inc, Bell Mobility and Kruger Inc, for their support. Without their support, the series could not happen. I would also like to thank the elected council and the mayor of Loretteville. As well, thanks to MPP Morley Kells and his assistant, Bob McAllister, for their organizational expertise.

The friendship series is a wonderful opportunity to promote diverse cultures and different governments. I am very proud to be part of this interprovincial initiative.

FAMILY RESPONSIBILITY OFFICE

Mrs Marie Bountrogianni (Hamilton Mountain): Citizens of Ontario are voicing their concern with the Family Responsibility Office backlogs across the province. I have cases on a daily basis in Hamilton Mountain which show the FRO's inability to properly address their workload and manage the responsibility placed upon them.

Catherine first came to my office in October 1999 when she did not receive a payment for the month. Catherine was told by the FRO that she would not be getting any further payments until February 2000. Due to the slow response time of the FRO in changing a court order, an overpayment occurred on Catherine's account. Catherine has two children and she was left for six months without support payments because of FRO delays and mismanagement.

Kevin brought his case to me in January 2000. He noticed a discrepancy in his payment that showed a miscalculation of his arrears in the amount of $1,800. His situation was further complicated by the fact that he had to pay an additional $600 support payment that he should not have had to pay. He went to court, he couldn't afford a lawyer and, as a result, was forced to pay twice in one month. The paperwork was not immediately registered and the change was not made until four months later.

Caroline came to me in March of this year. Her case is currently $32,000 in arrears with the FRO, and after intervention from my office, she has only now started to collect $750 a month.

The lack of speedy action when dealing with case information affects the lives of innocent children. Caroline has two children, one who is disabled. Why are these types of situations still occurring? Why is the government not willing to stand up and take responsibility for ensuring that the FRO is held accountable?

MEMBER FOR OTTAWA CENTRE

Mr Steve Gilchrist (Scarborough East): On the eve of what is certain to be a historic showdown between the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Ottawa Senators, I would like to take this opportunity, in the spirit of non-partisanship and of friendly intercity rivalry, to congratulate the member for Ottawa Centre for his recent intervention on behalf of his hometown team.

A piece by Sun media columnist Steve Simmons, poking fun at the Ottawa Senators, was met with a swift, vehement and voluminous response from Ottawa fans, including the member for Ottawa Centre himself. According to Mr Simmons's column today, the member left him a voice mail message in which he said, "I can't believe you'd write this kind of"-expletive deleted. For the sake of parliamentary propriety, let's just call it "horse hockey."

When the member saw that his beloved Sens were under attack, did he heed the time-honoured warning given to all politicians, "Don't argue with people who buy printers' ink by the barrel"? No, he did not. In fact, the member upped the ante considerably by promising to follow up his voice mail with a similar call to Mr Simmons's publisher. The member is truly a credit to a city known more for contract-breaking Russians, dot-com companies and generally low levels of fun than it is for high levels of testosterone.

But where, oh where, is Mr Patten's commander-in-chief? Once again, Dalton McGuinty, himself the MPP for Ottawa South, is not even dressed for the game, much less in the corners. Perhaps he is so much in the thrall of American think-tanks that he has forgotten the importance of what goes on at Canadian rinks.

Mr John Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I would ask for unanimous consent to allow the member from Nepean, the honourable Minister of Community and Social Services, an opportunity to respond to that last statement.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is there unanimous consent? I'm afraid I heard a no.

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I seek unanimous consent for members to wear this pin that says no to American corporate, for-profit private jails here in the province of Ontario.

The Speaker: Is there unanimous consent? I'm afraid I heard some noes.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

MINISTRY OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES AMENDMENT ACT (PUBLIC OWNERSHIP AND STAFFING), 2000 / LOI DE 2000 MODIFIANT LA

LOI SUR LE MINISTÈRE DES SERVICES CORRECTIONNELS (PROPRIÉTÉ PUBLIQUE ET DOTATION EN PERSONNEL)

Mr Kormos moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 61,

An Act to amend the Ministry of Correctional Services Act to require public ownership and staffing of correctional institutions / Projet de loi 61, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur le ministère des Services correctionnels pour exiger la propriété publique des établissements correctionnels et leur dotation en personnel.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

The member for a short statement.

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): This bill amends the Ministry of Correctional Services Act. It requires every correctional institution to be owned and operated by the crown in right of Ontario. It requires all work done for or on behalf of a correctional institution to be done by civil servants. This bill will ensure the safety of our communities and protect us from American private, corporate for-profit jails.

MOTIONS

PRIVATE MEMBERS' PUBLIC BUSINESS

Hon Norman W. Sterling (Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Government House Leader): I believe I have unanimous consent to move a motion without notice regarding the order of precedence for private members' public business.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Is there unanimous consent? Agreed.

Hon Mr Sterling: I move that notwithstanding standing order 96(d), the following change be made to the ballot list for private members' public business: Mr Gerretsen and Mr Kwinter exchange places in order of precedence such that Mr Gerretsen assumes ballot item number 43 and Mr Kwinter assumes ballot item number 20.

The Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

ORAL QUESTIONS

WATER EXTRACTION

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): I have a question today for the Chair of Management Board. It was my understanding that he would be here.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I'm just wondering-I'm looking for the Deputy Premier. Is the Chair of Management Board expected to be here?

Hon Ernie L. Eves (Deputy Premier, Minister of Finance): He is coming.

The Speaker: Maybe the member would like to stand the question down and go into his second question.

Mr McGuinty: Thank you, Speaker. I have a question to the Minister of the Environment.

It may be cold outside today, but I believe that if we don't start doing something about this now, this summer is going to be a disaster for Ontario farmers and tourism operators. We already have reports that Lake St Clair in Essex county is three feet below normal, and there are fears that this summer is going to produce the lowest level in both Lake Erie and Lake Ontario since the previous record low established in 1935.

On behalf of tourism operators and on behalf of farmers, Minister, I am asking that you agree to immediately re-impose the moratorium on new water-taking permits that you quietly removed shortly after the election.

Hon Dan Newman (Minister of the Environment): I refer the question to the Minister of Natural Resources.

Hon John Snobelen (Minister of Natural Resources): I and my colleague the Minister of the Environment and my colleague the Minister of Agriculture and others who are affected by low water levels have been working on this subject for a great length of time. We are looking at the regulations we have in place and at some of the responses we can make with our partners, the conservation authorities and municipalities across Ontario, and we will be prepared, this year and in future years, to respond to drought conditions.

Mr McGuinty: Minister, you are fiddling while the water is disappearing. What I'm asking on behalf of farmers, and tourism operators in particular, is really something very simple. They have a very straightforward request. They are very concerned, given the natural conditions that have prevailed during the past winter, given the record low levels of water, and are asking that you simply reimpose a moratorium on all water-taking permits. Those are being issued on a regular basis now. We're not charging for the water that's being removed. We'll set aside that issue for another day.

But at the present time, why would you not reimpose a moratorium in order to lend some greater sense of security to our farmers, who are very concerned about not having enough water to water their crops this coming summer?

Hon Mr Snobelen: I thank the Leader of the Opposition for the question. He, as always, has done his best to make a very complex issue very simplistic, as opposed to simple. He is suggesting that one very small component of water use in Ontario is the answer to a problem that is much broader than that.

The government of Ontario will be responding very soon with the Ontario Drought Response 2000. It's a comprehensive response. It looks at how we've managed drought in the past and how we should manage it in the future. I can tell you, it's a subject we take much more seriously than the question from the Leader of the Opposition would suggest.

Mr McGuinty: Minister, unlike you, I would rather avoid a crisis than help create it. The Ministry of the Environment is still granting permits for companies to draw water. When this is done, one of the problems is that no one locally is being notified in any real sense about the possibility that a water-taking permit is to be granted to somebody in their community. There is no requirement at the present time that they be notified in any direct sense and allowed an opportunity to provide real opinions and express real concerns about the potential water loss in their community.

This happened just recently in Hastings county, where you snuck through permits to allow a company to take 1.7 million litres of water a day out of the local supply. Farmers in that community are extremely worried, first of all that they weren't notified about this, and they didn't have an opportunity to offer their input. They're concerned that they're going to run out of water this summer. They're concerned there is not going to be enough water for their crops.

Minister, once more, on behalf of those farmers and farmers throughout the province, will you not reimpose a moratorium on all water-taking permits?

Hon Mr Snobelen: Once again I think the research folks who help the Leader of the Opposition have failed him.

They have not provided him with all of the information, because if they had provided him with all of the information, he would know that there are conditions attached to those sorts of permits, there are time limits attached to those sorts of permits, and he would also know that we have been working on a cross-ministry basis, with the Ministry of Agriculture working on behalf of the farmers in this province, with the Ministry of the Environment worrying about water quality certainly and the Ministry of Natural Resources, working together with our municipalities and our conservation authorities for a comprehensive drought plan for this province.

That's the responsible way to deal with local planning on an issue that's important to every person in the province of Ontario.

ONTARIO REALTY CORP

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Leader of the official opposition, the Chair of Management Board is now here.

Mr Dalton McGuinty (Leader of the Opposition): Thank you, Speaker. I have a question again to the Chair of Management Board. Minister, on behalf of Ontario taxpayers, we're wondering about the involvement of lobbyists in a sale of Ontario lands to the Ontario Realty Corp. The way I see it, it's kind of like if we want to sell our homes and we hire a real estate agent. We simply want our real estate agent to get the best possible offer. We don't want our agent, the ORC, to be wined and dined. We don't want people to attempt to influence their judgement and their decision-making authority when it comes to the sale of land. We simply want the best possible offer.

We know that so far the ORC, under your management, has lost over 10 million taxpayer dollars. I want you to stand up and tell us why you believe it is in the interests of Ontario taxpayers that lobbyists have a role, of any kind, to play in the sale of government lands.

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): We've taken action to make sure that the process around the sale of assets of the Ontario government is more accountable, more open and more transparent. You can check out those new policies on the Web page. This is what your board of directors at the Ontario Realty Corp has done. They take their role very seriously.

Secondly, you keep referring to your information, that you assert as a fact, that Ontario taxpayers have lost dollars they should have gotten through some of these transactions. What do you base that on?

Mr McGuinty: We went to the Web site and we found, when you look at the lobbyist registration records for the ORC, there are 26 lobbyists registered to influence matters. That's what they do. They're very open about it. They want to influence matters that take place at the ORC. One of those lobbyists is Bill King, former executive assistant to Mike Harris. He very openly says, in his lobbyist registration information, that he has an interest in Ontario Realty Corp's designated surplus properties.

Again, I'm just trying to figure out, if we compare ourselves to homeowners, why do we want our real estate agent, somebody who is supposed to act exclusively in our better interests, to be wined and dined by lobbyists? Don't we simply want the best possible offer? Isn't that what talks loudest and most eloquently, the best possible offer, the highest price? Tell me, why is it in the interests of Ontario taxpayers that lobbyists be allowed to play some kind of role, any kind of role, in the sale of government lands if the overriding objective here is to get the best possible price?

Hon Mr Hodgson: I think the Leader of the Opposition reflected our policy quite accurately. We are interested in getting the top price for our property. That's why the board of directors of the Ontario Realty Corp, which was unanimously approved by this House through its proper process, set up a new process for the dispersal of assets, which requires a more open and transparent way of doing business.

It was our government that brought in the lobbyist registration. We want to conduct our business in a more open and accountable fashion. For you to stand up here and say that somehow that's not right-I understand your government wouldn't bring in the lobbyist registration; our government did, so that that would be out in the open.

Mr McGuinty: Minister, you're continuing to duck a very simple question. I believe that lobbyists should have no place whatsoever when it comes to the sale of Ontario government lands. I think the only issue here is who's going to come up with the best offer. That's what Ontario taxpayers want.

My colleague Dominic Agostino has tabled a bill. Among other things, it would prohibit the involvement of lobbyists when it comes to the sale of Ontario government lands.

Minister, I've got a very simple question for you again. Tell us: Why is it in the interest of Ontario taxpayers that lobbyists be involved in the sale of government lands? It's a simple question, it's a direct question, and so far you have failed to answer it.

Hon Mr Hodgson: We have acted to make this process more accountable and open and fair. All properties that are for sale now are listed on the Internet. We're using professional brokers, through a request for proposals, to qualify them that they are capable of selling this property, and it's done in a more transparent way to try to maximize the value that the taxpayers will receive.

Your "lobbyists"-I don't know how wide you want to spread that. Does that mean that members from your party can't phone the Ontario Realty Corp to ask for information regarding a certain piece of property that's for sale?

NURSING HOMES

Ms Frances Lankin (Beaches-East York): My question is to the Minister of Health. Under the law, you're responsible for ensuring that nursing homes comply with legislated standards in order to have their licences of operation renewed.

Recently I received some information that there are nursing homes in this province that did not see a government inspector for over two years. Nursing homes are required by the Nursing Homes Act to have their licences renewed every 12 months. The ministry in the past has done an annual inspection to make sure they are meeting all the standards contained in the Nursing Homes Act.

In light of the information I have received, I've done a very preliminary search of inspection reports on nursing homes. I want to give you some examples of what I found. Prior to 1996, White Eagle Nursing Home in Toronto, Extendicare in St Catharines, Wellington House Nursing Home in Prescott and Westgate Lodge Nursing Home in Belleville were inspected annually. An inspector was in there once a year at a minimum; often, with referrals and follow-up reports, two or three times a year. Between 1996 and 1999, none of these nursing homes saw a single inspector, Minister. How do you explain this?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): If the member would share the information with me, I would certainly follow up and obtain whatever answers are necessary.

Ms Lankin: I appreciate that and I want to try and explain the situation to you, because I've spoken to sources in your ministry and in the community who tell me this story: that you in fact took the compliance officers, the people who did those annual inspection reports, out of their jobs and reassigned them to work on long-term-care projects that kept being reannounced and reannounced over and over again. Meanwhile, there was no one conducting annual inspections from about the middle of 1996 through 1997 and 1998. The people living there were left completely vulnerable for over two years.

For over two years, you neglected your own legal responsibility. For over two years, you neglected your moral responsibility to tens of thousands of frail seniors and their families.

Minister, how do you defend this?

Hon Mrs Witmer: Again, if the member would be prepared to share the information with me, I certainly will follow up with ministry staff and get the answers that are required.

Ms Lankin: Minister, I'll give you the list of homes, the four or five I read out plus a dozen or so that we've looked at, but I suspect, and what I've been told is, that if you look at the reports from right across this province, you will find that this is a consistent story. We have all heard the horror stories from nursing homes. Families count on the fact that each year the licences are renewed, that the nursing homes have to meet certain standards in order to get their licences renewed and that they're inspected to ensure they have met those standards.

The law requires that families be able to see those annual inspection reports posted in the homes. However, under your management of long-term care, instead of annual inspection for compliance, your record is an inspection every three years.

I want you to look into this. I want you to come back to us. I want you to admit to your failure in protecting seniors in nursing homes, and I want you to commit that in the future every nursing home will once again be inspected annually before their licence is renewed by the Ministry of Health.

Hon Mrs Witmer: I appreciate the fact that you are going to share the information with us. If you had had the information prior to this, I would have been pleased to follow up, and I certainly will make sure that ministry staff are doing what ministry staff are supposed to do.

CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Minister of Correctional Services. It's about your plan to privatize jails and the safety of our communities. We've learned that Corrections Corp of America, a company you are negotiating with to run one of your superjails, has filed for bankruptcy protection in the United States. Communities in the United States have already been dragged through hell and back with riots, murders and escapes in Corrections Corp jails. Now they're wondering, what happens when this company goes bankrupt? What about here in Ontario, Minister?

When you contract with a private, for-profit American company to run one of your superjails, what are you going to do when it goes bankrupt?

Hon Rob Sampson (Minister of Correctional Services): The leader will know that the initiatives we've brought forward in corrections reform were primarily a response to the auditor's report in 1993, which focused on the operation of correctional facilities when you were in government.

His comment was that the correctional facilities in this province were the second highest in cost in the entire North American system of correctional facilities and that we were getting poor results. We took up the challenge in 1995 to reform the correctional system in this province so that we could get better results through the correctional dollars we're spending, get more efficient facilities, safer facilities, more secure facilities that are state-of-the-art as they relate to the protection of the citizens of this province.

That's the focus of this government as we go forward, perhaps partnering with the private sector operator as well: the safety and security of the people who live in those communities and the people who work in those facilities.

Mr Hampton: Minister, the reality is that you're turning jails into American-style dungeons for dollars. Let's look at what's happened in the United States. The reality with Corrections Corp is that you have poorly trained, non-professional staff looking after some of the highest risk offenders. It's been a disaster in the United States, and communities have been left to pick up the pieces.

That's why the gallery is full of people today from Ontario communities who don't want any part of the American private jail strategy. That's why my colleague Peter Kormos has introduced a private member's bill to stop your American privatized jails.

Minister, will you listen to these people who don't want the American experience? Will you assure them that you'll support Mr Kormos's private member's bill so we don't have the American experience of escapes and murders and untrained people looking after an important community security question?

Hon Mr Sampson: I think the people in this province are interested in a correctional facility and a corrections system in this province that gets results. I don't think they're interested in a correctional facility and a corrections system in this province that has an 80% recidivism rate. I don't think they're interested in those types of results when we have the second-highest-cost system in North America.

It's quite clear that the way in which we run correctional facilities in this province has to change. You weren't prepared to do that. You were prepared to accept poor results and high costs when you were the governing party in this province. We are not prepared to accept that. That's why we will be establishing, for the first time, standards that we will challenge all institutions, whether they are publicly run or privately run, to meet or exceed. These are standards that deal with safety, that deal with security, that deal with effectiveness and efficiency. These are standards you turned a blind eye to, and we won't.

VISITOR

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Perhaps we could stop the clock for a quick moment. In the members' gallery west we have a former member, Greg Sorbara, who was the member for York Centre in the 35th, 34th and 33rd parliaments. Welcome to our friend.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mrs Lynn McLeod (Thunder Bay-Atikokan): My question is for the Minister of Health. Minister, yesterday you stepped in and took over the Hamilton hospital and you took personal responsibility for making cuts to hospital services in Hamilton. The consultant you sent in to Hamilton said that the hospital board had placed a higher priority on meeting patient needs than on getting rid of their deficit. The consultant said that you should go in and you should take responsibility for making sure they shut down an emergency room, an operating room and 95 more beds.

More than half of the province's hospitals are facing deficits and your ministry has told them that they have to balance their budgets, but they can't cut any programs. You've promised them a new funding formula and you've told them not to expect any more money. That means cuts are going to have to be made somewhere, somehow.

Minister, you've decided to go into Hamilton and take responsibility for making the cuts yourself. Are you now going to go into other hospitals with deficits? Are you going to London and to Ottawa? Are you going to go into Sunnybrook and into Windsor Regional Hospital and make the cuts yourself, just the way you're doing in Hamilton?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): If the member has-and perhaps she has-taken the time to read the report that was prepared by the independent third party, PricewaterhouseCoopers, she will see that the indications were, as a result of the information that had been collected, that there were some serious issues that had been identified by the third party in the consultant's report, which had to do with a matter of public confidence in the hospital and also a lack of confidence in the management and the governance as far as carrying out and implementing any recovery plan.

In fact, let me quote from the review. On page 36 it says: "A common theme has been why things cannot be changed rather than what can be changed. This attitude has created paralysis within the organization." Again, the consultant also said-

The Speaker (Mr Gary Carr): Order. I'm afraid the minister's time is up. Supplementary.

Mrs McLeod: Thank you, Minister, and we could spend time reading the parts of the report that reflect our concern. My concern is that the consultant believes the hospital services board should be more concerned with their responsibility to you, as minister, and your budget cuts than they are to meeting the health care needs of the people in their community. I believe that's wrong. I believe that's the wrong priority for hospital boards.

You want to say that this isn't about money; it is about money. It's about the fact that your government cut $800 million from hospital budgets and that half the hospitals in this province are facing deficits, not just the Hamilton health services board. You're going to have more hospitals facing deficits this year because you're not prepared to put any money into covering wage settlements. The only way hospitals in this province can meet your order to balance their budgets is to start to cut programs, to lay off staff, to shut down programs, like the HIV/AIDS clinic at Sunnybrook.

We've now seen what will happen. If a hospital board says they can't make the cuts you want without hurting patient care, you're going to come in and make the cuts for them. Today you have left hospital boards across this province with only two options: They either make the cuts you're forcing on them or they let you come in and make the cuts for them. But I suggest, Minister, you still have another option left. Will you put more money into hospital budgets and stop the cuts that are going to happen in places like Hamilton, London, Ottawa, Toronto, Timmins, Windsor and Cambridge, to name just a few?

Hon Mrs Witmer: Let me be abundantly clear. We have committed more money to health funding in this province than you had ever committed. In fact, we've increased funding from $17.4 billion to $20.6 billion this year, and we have an additional 20%-

Interjections.

The Speaker: Minister, take a seat. Order. The member for Windsor West, come to order, please. We can't have question period when people are shouting at the minister. I must say, if I have to stand up here, I'm sure the cabinet ministers will be very happy. They'll be able to shut their binders and they won't be able to answer any questions. I'm sure they'll enjoy that. If that's what the opposition wants, that's what we will do, because I'm prepared to stand here and I think the pages are as well. If you continue to shout at the ministers when they're answering, we won't continue question period.

Minister of Health.

Hon Mrs Witmer: As I've indicated, we've increased funding by $3 billion and with the promise of 20% more over the next four years; all this at a time when we were asking for their help in getting additional federal funding as a result of the cuts that have been made-$10 billion to be exact-and your leader refused to sign a letter signed by our Premier and Mr Hampton.

If we want to take a look at hospitals, we have this year increased hospital funding by $600 million. We have addressed the issue-

Interjection.

The Speaker: Member for Windsor West, come to order. This is her last warning. We cannot continue if you are going to scream across at the minister. The minister's time was up. New question.

TEACHER TESTING

Mr Ted Chudleigh (Halton): My question is to the Minister of Education. I have a letter to the editor from the March 23 edition of the Hamilton Spectator and it's from the president of the Taxpayers Coalition Halton, a marvellous organization. He writes that his group strongly feels that teachers should be tested, and I quote from his letter, "Given that children are our most precious resource, should not the professionals who shape a great part of their minds be periodically tested, as are other professionals?" Minister, how is this government going to ensure that we bring forward an effective teacher testing program?

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Education): We know in Ontario that we have many, many excellent teachers, but we also know that the challenges they are facing in today's classrooms are getting to be tougher and tougher. Keeping up to date with the knowledge and the skills and the abilities they need is proving to be an increasing challenge.

We are looking at ways we can ensure that all of our teachers will be as up to date and as good as they can be. We're looking at what we can learn from other professions, for example, the quality assurance procedures that are included in the health professions under the Regulated Health Professions Act. We're looking at the recommendations from the Royal Commission on Learning, which the NDP brought in, which talked about the need for certification and re-certification procedures every three to five years.

We're also looking at what other jurisdictions are doing around the world in terms of bringing in a teacher testing and evaluation program that allows us to ensure all our teachers will be as good as they can be. That's one of the ways we can help guarantee quality education in this province.

We've been very clear that what we need is a multifaceted approach that clearly recognizes that not only knowledge needs to be assessed, but also skills and abilities and all of the factors that make up good, competent teaching. Simply measuring knowledge-you can have knowledge but it doesn't mean you can teach it. We quite recognize that. It's the same challenge the health professions are facing. It's the same challenge that many other jurisdictions are looking at. We are developing a program in consultation with the College of Teachers and our other partners that is going to recognize the role of the principal as the head of the school. It's going to recognize the role of boards, parents-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. I'm afraid the minister's time is up.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr Dominic Agostino (Hamilton East): My question is to the Minister of Health. This morning, Urmas Soomet, the chair of the board of the Hamilton Health Sciences Corp, called your conduct towards this action you took "duplicitous." I totally agree with his statements on this. You have not been up front with this House and with the public about the report.

You have in your office a recovery plan that outlines cuts that have been recommended that go deeper, further and faster than even the board. Your proposal call outlined that a recovery plan must be submitted with the report. Yesterday in your release you stated that your hand-picked supervisor would put together this recovery plan. The reality is that you have it. You have it in your office. You have seen it, your staff has seen it. You're hiding it from the public, you're hiding it from the people of Hamilton and you're hiding this plan from the Legislature.

The reason you're doing it is because you know you're going to own political damage as a result of that plan. You're afraid to go public today. You're afraid because it's going to hurt you in the by-election. As we said yesterday, this is political.

I want to ask you very clearly, Minister, why have you not released the recovery plan that was submitted to your office at the same time the report was submitted?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): The member is obviously missing the point. If the member had taken a look at the paper today, there is a quote from the president of local 79 of the Ontario Nurses' Association, Hamilton hospital, who indicates, again supporting the fact that this is not an issue of funding or underfunding, that she has experienced all of the report's criticism. She says: "I've seen it get so bad in the last four years since the merger. I've seen the infighting, the cultural differences between the players." She refers to the fact that the action that has been taken is the appropriate action.

Debbie Mattina, chair of the Save the Henderson Committee, also agrees that this is the appropriate course of action to take.

The action we're taking is based on a third party, independent report, and we are going to ensure that the-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. I'm afraid the minister's time is up. Supplementary.

Mr Agostino: Minister, I want to go back to you regarding the recovery plan. Yesterday, you led us and the public to believe that there's no plan in place yet and your supervisor is going to do that.

Let me advise you that on Thursday, March 23, two assistant deputy ministers, as well as senior bureaucrats in the ministry, met with three board members and senior staff from the Hamilton Health Sciences Corp to review the recovery plan that had been submitted to your office by the consultants. Again, I want to go back to the political games that you're playing here. You have this plan and you know that this plan recommends cuts that go even further and deeper and faster and are more hurtful than the plan that's submitted by the board.

Again, why aren't you being upfront with us? Why are you not releasing this plan? Why are you playing political games and sitting on this plan in your office? If you were sincere about this, Minister, and sincere about the debate, you would immediately release the plan so we could have an open debate of what you're recommending compared to the board, compared to what the people of Hamilton feel we need.

Why will you not today release the recovery plan that you're hiding? You are trying to protect your political butt for the by-election upcoming in Wentworth.

Hon Mrs Witmer: I'm surprised that the member isn't supportive of the Save the Henderson group, that he's not supportive of the workers within the hospitals. The reality is that a supervisor, if appointed, will be the individual who does develop the strong recovery plan. We believe it's very important that any recovery plan that is determined to be appropriate is going to have very strong external and internal stakeholder input, and there has been no opportunity for any strong recovery plan to be provided and to have that type of input from the external and the internal stakeholders.

PEACE BRIDGE

Mr Bart Maves (Niagara Falls): My question is for the Minister of Transportation. Minister, I know you're aware of the vital importance of the-

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Come to order. The member for Hamilton East, come to order, please.

Mr Maves: I'll try again. My question is for the Minister of Transportation. I know you know the vital link the Peace Bridge provides between Canada and the United States and how important it is for trade with Ontario-

Interjection.

The Speaker: Member for Hamilton East, last warning. We can't continue on if you're going to yell across when somebody else is trying to ask a question. One more outburst like that and you'll have to go back to your office and you can yell at the TV all you want all afternoon.

Mr Maves: As I've been trying to say, there's a vital importance to the Peace Bridge.

Interjections.

Mr Maves: I understand that the Liberal opposition doesn't care about Fort Erie or the Peace Bridge and the vital importance that it has to trade in Ontario and Canada, but we on this side of the House do.

Last week, as you're aware, an obstructionist court challenge succeeded in delaying a much-needed increase in lane capacity to the bridge. Can you please confirm the Ontario government's support for widening the Peace Bridge with a twin span?

Hon David Turnbull (Minister of Transportation): Yes. First of all, I'd like to thank my colleague the member for Niagara Falls and also the member for Erie-Lincoln, Tim Hudak, for bringing this issue very much to the fore. We're very disappointed with the delay in the project. In 1997, the Peace Bridge carried some 7.7 million vehicles, including 1.4 million trucks. It's the second-busiest crossing in Ontario. A binational engineering team found that a twin span is the fastest and the most cost-effective way of expanding this important connection to the US.

We continue to support the twin span and we urge the city of Buffalo to work co-operatively with the Peace Bridge Authority to ensure the situation is resolved as quickly as possible.

Mr Maves: We appreciate your continued support on the project. Ontarians expect the Minister of Transportation to work on our road structure so that we can continue to improve the economic growth of this province and the job creation therein. Can you tell the House, Minister, what the government has done to help ease traffic congestion in our area and what you plan to do in the future?

Interjection.

Hon Mr Turnbull: I hear chirps from across on the Liberal side. Your government did nothing.

Interjections.

Hon Mr Turnbull: The difference is, our government has been working at this. We've recently completed a major expansion of the QEW between Hamilton and St Catharines, some $206.9 million invested.

The Speaker: Will the minister take his seat. I can't hear. It would be helpful if the comments were not inciteful to the other side as well, Minister.

Hon Mr Turnbull: I withdraw the word "chirping" and suggest the shouting across of the inaccurate information-

Interjections.

Hon Mr Turnbull: Yes, the member for Kingston and the Islands, which is not unusual for him.

Some two weeks ago I announced the Niagara needs assessment study. This will in fact study transportation needs for the entire Niagara Peninsula.

SCARBOROUGH FIRE

Ms Marilyn Churley (Broadview-Greenwood): Talk about inaccurate information. My question is for the Minister of the Environment.

Minister, yesterday in this House when you were asked about the public's need to know about how dangerous chemicals are used and stored in plants like U.S.E. Hickson, right beside residential communities, you said, and I quote from Hansard, "Any municipality has the ability to ask the government for that information."

Yes, but when my staff called the MOE yesterday, your ministry admitted that they never had a copy of this information until after the fire. So big deal; you can ask, but you can't get the information.

Minister, you led this Legislature to believe that your ministry has such information, when in fact it doesn't. Communities and firefighters need to have this information before a fire like this happens again. I'm going to ask you again today, will you bring in right-to-know legislation so that in case of another disaster like this, communities and firefighters know what's happening in their neighborhood?

Hon Dan Newman (Minister of the Environment): I refer that question to the Minister of Labour.

Hon Chris Stockwell (Minister of Labour): To the member opposite, I guess the problem is your staff phoned the wrong ministry. If they had phoned the Ministry of Labour they would have been informed that yes, all the chemicals are posted at work and provided to all the people who work in that facility.

All that information is on request by the local medical officer of health and, furthermore, the local fire departments are also in receipt of that upon request, and most, if not all, fire departments request that information as well. Further, any person who lives in the community simply can phone the medical officer of health and they will provide that person individually with all the ministry information that you need to know, all the chemicals that are stored on site.

So quite frankly I say to the member opposite, I understand that you didn't get the answer from the MOE, because you should have called the Ministry of Labour. All this information would have been provided to you without any problem, is properly provided every day. In fact, this law was passed back in 1988 under the previous-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. I'm sorry, the minister's time is up. Supplementary.

Ms Churley: That's nice to know and it's nice for our communities to know that. It certainly didn't help the firefighters who got injured at the Plastimet fire in Hamilton, did it?

This is a serious issue here. The firefighters are calling once again for a public inquiry. The minister-I'm addressing this to the Minister of the Environment again-said yesterday in this House that changes were made to the fire code after the Plastimet fire. The fire marshal said that the changes to the fire code, which clearly does not go far enough, were all in motion before the Plastimet fire happened.

Minister, we asked for an independent inquiry after the Plastimet fire, as did the firefighters and the communities. Your Premier said no. Two major toxic fires have happened after that under your watch. People are worried about it happening again. There have been huge cuts to resources in your ministry.

Minister, I'm going to ask you again: After two new toxic fires, will you call an independent inquiry? We want to know whether it's worth the risk, for instance, to allow the storage and use of dangerous chemicals so close to a residential area; and if so, what kind of information needs to be out there in the communities? Minister, will you call that inquiry today?

Hon Mr Stockwell: You know, it's a slightly unfair question you ask. You did not have the proper information. I understand that. Certainly sometimes it can be complicated if you're trying to track down the proper ministry. This information is provided. The firefighters who were working this site and the fire chiefs who were on this site knew full well what chemicals they were dealing with. They knew so because of the good legislation in this province that provided this information. Anyone who lived in that community, if they so needed, could have accessed that information with a simple call to the medical officer of health.

The fact of the matter is that the legislation is clear. The information is provided to municipalities, it's provided to medical officers of health, it's provided to the firefighters. For you to stand up here and fearmonger that this stuff isn't out there just sets into the path the kind of unfair criticisms addressed to this government. The firefighters knew; the fire chief knew; the medical officer of health knew; the municipality knew. Clearly the only one-

The Speaker: Order. New question.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Government members come to order, please.

AIR QUALITY

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): I have a question for the Minister of the Environment, and I don't want him to pass this off to some other minister. In fact, this is a very easy question. You don't have to go into the new style that the whiz kids told you, of looking tough and giving a really strong answer. It's just a plain, easy question, and here it is: If you had the chance to prevent a 400% increase in air pollution and reduce premature deaths from respiratory complications by at least 50 people each year in the greater Toronto area, would you do so? Yes or no?

Hon Dan Newman (Minister of the Environment): In fact, this government has taken proactive steps on cleaning the environment and making the air better. We've led the charge on reducing greenhouse gas emissions in our own government operations. We set a target of 40%. We've hit 32% so far. That's far above what any other government in Canada has done.

Mr Bradley: I've got the solution for you. Minister, the Harris government can indeed prevent a 400% increase in air pollution and can indeed reduce the number of people in the greater Toronto area who could die prematurely from smog by at least 50 by following the advice of Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion, the chair of the city of Toronto's environmental task force and the chair of the Ontario Clean Air Alliance.

As Minister of the Environment, as the individual whose responsibility it is to protect the environment, will you give a firm commitment in the Legislature today that you will refuse to allow the sale of the Lakeview generating station, potentially the largest single source of air pollution in southern Ontario, to any buyer who will not convert this coal-fired plant to much cleaner natural gas? I ask you as Minister of the Environment, the defender of the environment, to answer that question.

Hon Mr Newman: That's under review and no decision has been made. But what I can tell the member opposite are some of the other initiatives of this government with respect to cleaning the environment. We've brought forward the Drive Clean program and that's working well. We have a pilot emissions reduction training program. We have Ontario's anti-smog action plan. I know that the member opposite would be in favour of that. We've brought in landfill management regulations and we've also brought proposed environmental regulations regarding the new competitive electricity market to Ontario.

RURAL HEALTH SERVICES

Mr Doug Galt (Northumberland): My question is directed to the Minister of Health. As you know, the Task Force on Rural Economic Renewal has been consulting with the people across this province. As chair of this task force, I have listened to many differing views on a variety of topics. There has been considerable concern expressed about primary health care. In order to ensure a healthy working environment for rural Ontarians, including those in my riding, we must ensure that the primary health care needs of rural residents are being met.

Minister, can you provide us with assurance that your ministry understands today's primary health care needs in rural Ontario?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): As the member has indicated, we are certainly well aware of the fact that the issue of primary care is of significant importance to the rural community and to other communities in the province. As a result, as you know, we did pass legislation to introduce nurse practitioners. At the present time I'm pleased to say we've gone from supporting zero to 226 nurse practitioners in order that people throughout the province, particularly in the rural areas, have greater access to primary care.

We've also had Dr McKendry's report, and that information has been given to the expert panel to ensure that we have the appropriate number and distribution of physicians. That's being headed up by Dr Peter George.

But in the interim I can tell you that Dr McKendry's report did lead to recommendations where we are now investing $11 million to make sure that we take immediate steps to double the number of foreign graduate students and make them available for primary care across the province.

Mr Galt: Thank you very much, Minister, for that reassurance. I'm certainly very happy to see that our government can confirm its position on this issue and not flip-flop like the opposition does on the other side of the House.

However, in order to provide primary health care to rural Ontario, we need to ensure that a sufficient number of practitioners are located in rural areas to deliver this service. I want to see the day when there will be adequate numbers of health care practitioners in my jurisdiction. What is your ministry doing to ensure that not only my constituents but all residents of rural Ontario have access to health care practitioners?

Hon Mrs Witmer: I began to indicate that we were responding to Dr McKendry's report and that we have made available $11 million. In doing so, we have doubled the number of foreign graduates.

I'm also pleased to say that beginning in July of this year we will be providing, as part of that $11 million, $800,000 to fund 15 additional post-graduate training positions in Ontario to recruit Canadian medical school graduates who are receiving their post-graduate training in the US. Also, as a result of the initiatives that presently are being undertaken by the expert panel under the leadership of Peter George, we are developing short-, medium- and long-term plans to ensure that we can have the appropriate distribution of physicians across the province as well as the appropriate supply.

I am very confident that the work they're doing will, for the first time in the history of this province, give us the data that will allow us to plan for the future.

CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY

Mr Jean-Marc Lalonde (Glengarry-Prescott-Russell): My question is to the Minister of Labour. On November 12 of last year, at a press conference in Ottawa, you announced that you had concluded an agreement on construction labour mobility with your Quebec counterpart, Minister Diane Lemieux. According to your statement, Bill 17,

An Act respecting Labour Mobility in the Construction Industry, would be shelved and Ontarians would have better access to Ouatouais-area construction sites as long as they continued paying registration fees. In return, Quebec workers and contractors would have full access anywhere in Ontario without paying any registration.

Construction work is being done on the Champlain Bridge in Ottawa. The work started on the Ontario side over three months ago with workers from Quebec and Ontario. The project has now reached the middle pillar of the bridge. Since the pillar is on the Quebec side, five Ontario crane operators were let go, even though they all had their licences.

My question to you is, have you had any discussions with your Quebec counterpart to ensure that we respect the signature of the agreement and that Ontario construction workers can work in Quebec without harassment?

Hon Chris Stockwell (Minister of Labour): That's a good question. That's accurate too. The situation, as I understand it, is exactly as you described it. The situation was brought to my attention last week, also by yourself. It was referred to the committee to deal with quickly. I asked them to get a response back to me this week. They will, in my opinion, respond this week. As I said to you last week-I gave you my undertaking-as soon as I hear from them, I will fully brief you and ensure that the situation resolves itself. It's not an acceptable situation. We on this side do not accept it. We gave that message directly to the Quebec government.

Mr Lalonde: Since your government did not enforce

section 24 of the bill, which gave you the power to fine workers and contractors anywhere from $2,000 to $25,000 a day for having worked in Ontario without having registered with the Ontario job protection office, and you also said the Quebec government would cancel all fines received by Ontario contractors and workers for having worked in Quebec without proper licences, Minister, when can we get confirmation that the fines issued to the Ontario workers and contractors have been cancelled?

Hon Mr Stockwell: We will confirm it as soon as I confirm it with the Quebec government. I gave you that undertaking, and I will live by it. We said that we would go about and ensure that the situation was resolved. In fact, we will do that.

We have taken a very hard line with Quebec; there's no doubt about it. We've taken a very hard line with respect to these negotiations. We've demanded access. They signed an agreement that gives us access, thanks greatly in part to the members represented from that area in this caucus, because we as a caucus took a very hard position.

Let me tell you something. We don't plan on backing up. The bill is in abeyance. If they don't live up to the letter of the law, we're going to put that bill back in place. We've told them that flat out.

One other thing. It took the kind of leadership, the kind of hard work that this government provided, to get us this far. In 25 years, there weren't any Ontarians working in Quebec. There were many administrations and there were many deals signed. I may hear from the member for the NDP. You signed the deal. Nothing was resolved. Thanks to the members in this caucus who stood strong-

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Order. The minister's time is up.

SALE OF ILLEGAL DRUGS

Mrs Brenda Elliott (Guelph-Wellington): My question today is for the Minister of Consumer and Commercial Relations. The parents in my riding who have read frightening newspaper reports of violent situations and dangerous drug use in nightclubs and in after-hours clinics and in raves are concerned about the safety of their teenagers and their youth. They are worried that their kids are going to get mixed up in some of these places and be seriously at risk or hurt.

During the recent provincial election, our government made a commitment in the Blueprint to crack down on illegal drugs by going after places where drug dealing occurs. Minister, could you tell the members of this House what action you're taking to live up to this commitment to the people of Ontario?

Interjections.

Hon Robert W. Runciman (Minister of Consumer and Commercial Relations): Again we heard comments from across the floor, and I can assure the members of this House that we will take significant action, unlike former governments.

We made a commitment in the Blueprint document to crack down on the sale of illicit drugs in licensed establishments. The Harris government has a record of keeping its promises and this is one additional promise that we are going to fulfill.

In March of this year the Solicitor General and I co-sponsored a summit which brought together officials from the federal government, the municipal governments, provincial policing authorities and municipal policing authorities to discuss inter-jurisdictional methods-including, I may say, the deputy leader of the Liberal Party, who attended as well-to try to find solutions to deal with this very significant concern of many people across this province. We have pulled together a draft report.

Mrs Elliott: Thank you, Minister. I know my constituents are going to be pleased that our government is taking leadership in looking at this very serious issue. But, with respect, we all go to a lot of meetings and we all go to a lot of conferences. What my constituents want to know is what concrete actions you anticipate are actually going to come out of this so that when their kids go out in the evening they have some reassurance that the places they'll be visiting are indeed safe and that they will come home to their families safe.

Hon Mr Runciman: We're certainly concerned about the safety of all Ontarians, but I think especially young people with respect to after-hours clubs, rave parties and licensed establishments in this province. When we initially designed the concept of a summit, I was approached by Superintendent Ron Taverner of the Toronto police who expressed his police service's concerns about rave parties and the proliferation of so-called designer drugs at many rave parties across the province.

This was certainly an important ingredient of the summit. We talked about ways we can attack that particular problem, but also looking at after-hours clubs, licensed establishments where illicit drugs are proliferating and an interdisciplinary way that we can attack these problems working together at the federal, provincial and municipal levels. We have prepared a draft report summarizing the recommendations, and that report will be finalized and made public sometime in June.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton West): My question is for the Minister of Health. Minister, you will know by now that the chair of the Hamilton Health Sciences Corp has stated at a news conference earlier this morning that your actions, as far as they are concerned, amount to duplicity and, further, that your actions point to the fact, "We have been betrayed as a board and a community."

The reason they feel this way, of course, is because your senior ministry staff have been a part of not just the operational review but also a part of the recovery plan, the very plan that you refused to table and comment on as to whether or not you support those recommendations that include shutting down the emergency ward at Henderson.

The board is on the brink of resigning in disgust over the way that you're trying to backpedal and put distance between you and these reports, and at the very least, you owe them an immediate meeting-which they have probably forwarded to your office by now. Will you agree to meet with the board as soon as possible, and by that I mean within the next couple of days, to deal with your allegations as well as theirs?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): The member may or may not know that I have already personally talked to the chair of the board. I have indicated that the chair and the board have an opportunity to present information to me. That's why I gave-

Mr Christopherson: They want to meet with you immediately.

Hon Mrs Witmer: Yes, and they will be. They already know that that's happening. We've already had the conversation.

Again, I would assure you that what we're dealing with is a third party, independent report that has indicated that there are some very serious issues at the corporation that need to be dealt with and some very serious questions regarding public confidence in the hospital and the lack of ability to recruit and retain physicians. Obviously we are responding today and yesterday to the third party report that indicates that there is a need for action, and we are moving forward to take that action. We're supported by the nurses at the hospital who have agreed that the situation described in the report-

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): I'm afraid the minister's time is up.

PETITIONS

DOCTOR SHORTAGE

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas patients requiring eye care in Niagara are faced with a shortage of ophthalmologists and as a result, are compelled to wait several weeks to secure an appointment with an ophthalmologist;

"Whereas, while the shortage of ophthalmologists is in existence, the removal of the billing cap on these medical specialists provides a temporary but essential easing of the health care crisis;

"Whereas the solution of the Ontario Ministry of Health removing the exemptions of the billing cap and forcing patients from Niagara to travel along the very busy Queen Elizabeth Highway to receive treatment in Hamilton is unacceptable;

"Be it resolved that the Ontario Ministry of Health remove the cap on billing for ophthalmologists in Niagara until such time as Niagara is no longer an underserviced area."

I affix my signature as I am in complete agreement with the sentiments expressed in this petition.

PROTECTION OF MINORS

Mr Doug Galt (Northumberland): I have a very thick petition here from the Catholic Women's League of Canada. It's from a person in Woodstock and it is addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas children are exposed to pornography in variety stores and video rental outlets; and

"Whereas bylaws vary from city to city and have failed to protect minors from unwanted exposures to pornography;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To enact legislation which will (1) create uniform standards in Ontario to prevent minors from being exposed to pornography in retail establishments, (2) prevent minors from entering establishments which rent or sell pornography, and (3) restrict the location of such establishments to non-residential areas."

I submit this on behalf of the many signatures here and the Honourable Ernie Hardeman.

HIGHWAY SAFETY

Mr John Gerretsen (Kingston and the Islands): I have a petition here which is addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario and it states:

"Whereas 13 people died during the first seven months of 1999 on Highway 401 between London and Windsor; and

"Whereas traffic levels on all sections of Highway 401 continue to increase; and

"Whereas Canada's number one trade and travel route was designed in the 1950s for fewer vehicles and lighter trucks; and

"Whereas road funding is almost completely paid for through vehicle permit and driving licence fees; and

"Whereas Ontario road users pay 28 cents per litre of tax on gasoline, adding up to over $2.7 billion in provincial gas taxes and over $2.3 billion in federal gas taxes;

"We, the undersigned members of the Canadian Automobile Association and other residents of Ontario, respectfully request the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to immediately upgrade Highway 401 to at least a six-lane highway with paved shoulders and rumble strips; and

"We respectfully request that the Legislative Assembly of Ontario place firm pressure on the federal government to invest its gasoline tax revenue in road safety improvements in Ontario."

I agree with the petition. I've signed it. I'm handing it to Andrew Walker, who is one of our pages from Glenburnie, Kingston.

LORD'S PRAYER

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): "Whereas the prayer, Our Father, also called the Lord's Prayer, has always been used to open the proceedings of municipal chambers and the Ontario Legislative Assembly since the beginning of Upper Canada under Lieutenant Governor John Graves Simcoe in the 18th century; and

"Whereas such use of the Lord's Prayer is part of Ontario's long-standing heritage and a tradition that continues to play a significant role in contemporary Ontario life;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the Parliament of Ontario maintain the use of the Lord's Prayer in its proceedings, in accordance with its long-standing established custom."

I'll affix my name to that.

INTERNATIONAL ADOPTIONS

Mr Joseph Cordiano (York South-Weston): To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Conservative government has arbitrarily imposed a $925 head tax on international adoptions; and

"Whereas the cost to the government for processing international adoptions is no greater than that for domestic adoptions, which are not subject to the head tax; and

"Whereas in the United States parents are offered a tax credit of $5,000 to offset the enormous costs of international adoption; and

"Whereas the cost for an international adoption can range from $20,000 to $30,000,

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows and demand that this head tax be immediately revoked."

There are 177 signatures attached to this petition and I also affix my signature to this petition.

PROTECTION OF MINORS

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): I'm pleased to present a petition on behalf of my constituents in the riding of Durham, specifically Maria Speziale, Denis Radcliffe, Randy Foster and a number of other constituents:

"Whereas children are exposed to sexually explicit material in variety stores and video rental outlets;

"Whereas bylaws vary from city to city and have failed to protect minors from unwanted exposure to sexually explicit materials;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"First, to enact the following legislation:

"To create uniform standards in Ontario to prevent minors from being exposed to sexually explicit material in retail establishments; and

"Second, make it illegal to sell, rent, or loan sexually explicit materials to minors."

I am pleased to support and sign this petition on behalf of my constituents of Durham.

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

Mrs Lyn McLeod (Thunder Bay-Atikokan): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the northern health travel grant was introduced in 1987 in recognition of the fact that northern Ontario residents are often forced to receive treatment outside their own communities because of the lack of available services; and

"Whereas the Ontario government acknowledged that the costs associated with that travel should not be fully borne by those residents and therefore that financial support should be provided by the Ontario government through the travel grant program; and

"Whereas travel, accommodation and other costs have escalated sharply since the program was first put in place, particularly in the area of air travel; and

"Whereas the Ontario government has provided funds so that southern Ontario patients needing care at the Northwestern Ontario Cancer Centre have all their expenses paid while receiving treatment in the north which creates a double standard for health care delivery in the province; and

"Whereas northern Ontario residents should not receive a different level of health care nor be discriminated against because of their geographical locations;

"Therefore, we, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Ontario Legislature to acknowledge the unfairness and inadequacy of the northern health travel grant program and commit to a review of the program with a goal of providing 100% funding of the travel costs for residents needing care outside their communities until such time as that care is available in our communities."

It's signed by a number of additional constituents, and I affix my signature in agreement with their concern.

KARLA HOMOLKA

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): I rise to present a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. Really, if I may make a remark, the member for Scarborough Centre has gone to great lengths to connect this petition.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo were responsible for terrorizing entire communities in southern Ontario; and

"Whereas the Ontario government of the day made a deal with the devil with Karla Homolka resulting in a sentence that does not truly make her pay for her crimes; and

"Whereas our communities have not yet fully recovered from the trauma and sadness caused by Karla Homolka; and

"Whereas Karla Homolka believes that she should be entitled to passes to leave prison with an escort;"-if you can imagine it-"and

"Whereas the people of Ontario believe that criminals should be forced to serve sentences that reflect the seriousness of their crimes;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the government of Ontario will:

"Do everything within its power to ensure that Karla Homolka serves her full sentence;

"Continue to reform parole and make it more difficult for serious offenders to return to our streets;

"Fight the federal government's plan to release up to 1,600 more convicted criminals on to Ontario streets; and

"Ensure that the Ontario government's sex offender registry is functioning as quickly as possible."

I'm pleased to report that the sex offender registry is in process, and I will sign and support this petition.

EDUCATION FUNDING

Mr Michael A. Brown (Algoma-Manitoulin): I have a petition against the education funding formula as applied to the Algoma District School Board.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the current education funding formula stipulates that should the student population of a given district divided by the district's area equal less than 1.0, the district is to be funded as a low-density area; and

"Whereas Algoma District School Board has approximately 15,000 students and covers an area of 70,534 square kilometres and as such has a quotient of 0.21;

"We, the undersigned taxpayers, supporters and district school council members of the Algoma District School Board petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to instruct the Minister of Education to review the current education funding formula as it applies to the Algoma District School Board of northern Ontario and rightfully designate it as low-density."

I have literally thousands of these petitions and I am in full agreement and have signed it.

ABORTION

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): It is seldom that I get up to speak, but with your permission and indulgence, Mr Speaker, I have another petition. It's surprising how accessible I am to the people of Ontario. This is clearly demonstrating that.

"To the Parliament of Ontario:

"Whereas we have recently learned that our tax money is being used to pay the rent on the Morgentaler abortuary; and

"Whereas by the end of his lease this amount will be $5 million annually;

"Whereas we strongly object to this use of our tax dollars;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario to immediately cease these payments."

I'm pleased to sign my name to this petition.

NORTHERN HEALTH TRAVEL GRANT

Mr Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): Like all my northern colleagues, we have thousands of names on petitions related to the inadequacy of the northern health travel grant. I will read it.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the northern health travel grant was introduced in 1987 in recognition of the fact that northern Ontario residents are often forced to receive treatment outside their own communities because of the lack of available services; and

"Whereas the Ontario government acknowledged that the costs associated with that travel should not be fully borne by those residents and therefore that financial support should be provided by the Ontario government through the travel grant program; and

"Whereas travel, accommodation and other costs have escalated sharply since the program was first put in place, particularly in the area of air travel; and

"Whereas the Ontario government has provided funds so that southern Ontario patients needing care at the Northwestern Ontario Cancer Centre have all their expenses paid while receiving treatment in the north which creates a double standard for health care delivery in the province; and

"Whereas northern Ontario residents should not receive a different level of health care nor be discriminated against because of their geographical locations;

"Therefore, we, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Ontario Legislature to acknowledge the unfairness and inadequacy of the northern health travel grant program and commit to a review of the program with a goal of providing 100% funding of the travel costs for residents needing care outside their communities until such time as that care is available in our communities."

I have thousands of names here on petitions and I'm very pleased to add my name to this petition.

ABORTION

Mr Joseph Spina (Brampton Centre): My petition is to the Parliament of Ontario from a number of constituents.

"Whereas we have recently learned that our tax money is being used to pay the rent on the Morgentaler abortuary; and

"Whereas by the end of his lease this amount will be $5 million;

"Whereas we strongly object to this use of our tax dollars;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario to immediately cease these payments."

I'll affix my signature to this.

TIMBER CUTTING

Mr Alvin Curling (Scarborough-Rouge River): I have a petition in support of my colleagues Michael Gravelle and Lyn McLeod, who have received these petitions.

"Whereas timber cutters are trespassing on private and crown land, cutting, removing and selling trees, leaving a financial, environmental, aesthetic and emotional devastation in their wake; and

"Whereas the OPP have no authority to stop a cutter from cutting in the event of a boundary dispute, but may only inform the cutter that a complaint has been lodged; and

"Whereas the mills accept all timber from their contractors whether it is stolen or not; and

"Whereas the practice of the crown attorney's office to delegate these obvious theft issues to civil court places an unreasonable and prohibitive financial burden on the landowner-victim; and

"Whereas the offending cutters are protected by their numbered companies, lease their equipment and declare bankruptcy rather than pay fines and restitution, and immediately register a new numbered company, the landowner-victim must then pay:

"

(1) All court costs and legal fees incurred by the offender as well as their own legal fees;

"

(2) The cost of the survey;

"

(3) The cost of hiring and posting bond for a bailiff, an appraiser, a salesman and bond for each piece of property and for equipment seized from the convicted cutter at the rate of at least $2,000 for each of the above-listed;

"

(4) The cost of cleanup and reforestation; and

"Whereas traditionally settlements to landowners-victims have amounted to the price of stumpage fees for the stripped area, while the cutter profits from the full price of the timber from the mill; and

"Whereas, because the offending cutter must work quickly to avoid detection, he/she leaves the land devastated, with little or no thought to environmental areas of concern, eg, wetlands, reforestation;

"Therefore we, the undersigned citizens of Ontario, petition the Ontario Legislature to acknowledge the unfairness to landowners-victims in the overwhelming support of illegal cutting of private and crown lands.

"We advocate:

"

(1) That the cases be tried as grand theft in a criminal court;

"

(2) That in the event of a boundary dispute the party who is to benefit financially (ie, the cutter) be responsible for the cost of a survey by a registered surveyor and not a forester;

"

(3) Final judgments should not only include fines, all costs incurred for pursuit of justice and stumpage fees, but the full price of the timber, the cost of cleaning up the clear-cut area and the cost of reforestation and maintenance of the cut area, thus making theft of timber from private and crown lands potentially non-profitable;

"

(4) Contracts of convicted cutters should be subject to suspension or termination, just as drunk drivers lose licences."

I'll sign this in support of this petition.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

HEALTH CARE FUNDING

Resuming the debate adjourned on April 10, 2000, on the amendment to the amendment to the motion by Mr Harris relating to health care funding.

Mr Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): I'm pleased to have the opportunity of completing my remarks from last night relating to the Premier's resolution on health care funding and the amendments to that resolution that have been put forward by both the Liberal and the NDP caucuses.

What strikes me most clearly about this debate is that the Premier and this government seem more concerned with attaching political blame related to our health care crisis than they do to working towards a real solution. Both the provincial and the federal governments' decision to spend millions of dollars of taxpayers' money on nasty advertising campaigns, blaming each other for the declining standards of our health care system, deserves, I believe, our condemnation. Surely those millions could be better spent on opening hospital beds, providing speedier access to an MRI or hiring some much-needed nurses.

I believe I speak for the constituents of my Thunder Bay-Superior North riding when I say that the people of this province expect their senior levels of government to work together to repair our seriously damaged health care system, and not to frustrate all of us by playing this mindless and counterproductive blame game.

But it must also be said that while the federal government must be a fair partner in this process, there is much about Mr Harris's resolution that smacks of nothing more than politics at its worst, and that is not what is needed now. After all, it has clearly been decisions made by the Mike Harris government, decisions they have even acknowledged to be wrong, that have left us in the mess we are in today. And let's not forget that these decisions were made to finance a tax cut rather than to deal with a shortage of transfer payments from the federal government.

As you know, Mr Speaker, one of the first decisions made by the Mike Harris government was to cut hospital funding by some $800 million. I'm glad to see agreement on the other side of the House. This withdrawal of financial support was the key to all that followed: massive cutbacks in hospital beds, the layoff of 10,000 nurses, backed-up emergency rooms and people being removed from hospitals sicker and quicker. Remember, this is also the government that forcibly closed hospitals all across the province, this done by a Premier who said during the 1995 election campaign, "It is not my plan to close hospitals."

All this moved towards something I think we all are very concerned about: a frightening move towards two-tier health care as this system became increasingly privatized and we lurched towards American-style health care.

But what's important to say here is that this was not an accident. It was all part of a deliberate decision by the Mike Harris government to change the way we delivered health care. So when we all hear the Premier telling the federal government or telling anyone that they may be forced to privatize more of our health care system unless more funds are transferred from the federal government, I almost choke on the absurdity of that statement. After all, this is a government whose ideology is grounded on the belief that privatization is the answer to all our problems.

Whether it's toll roads or the maintenance of those roads or our jail system or our health care system, they believe privatization is the way to go, even when the evidence is overwhelmingly out there that privatization is certainly going to cost more and is not providing the service to the people that they expect and deserve from their government.

Let's also not forget that this is a government that did not even spend all the health care funds that the federal government sent them last year. Instead, they played a shell game with our health care dollars while people could not get a hospital bed, and vital programs such as the eating disorders program at St Joseph's Care Group in Thunder Bay remained unfunded and unsupported by the province.

If I may speak, in the few remaining moments of time that I have, as a northerner, as a representative of Thunder Bay-Superior North, a vast riding where health care is clearly the number one issue, every day, like all my colleagues, I hear many horror stories of a health care system that's gone amok. There are so many areas I would like to discuss, but I won't have time.

But I think it's important for me to say that there is perhaps no issue which upsets my constituents more than the fact that the northern health travel grant, put in place by a Liberal government in 1987, no longer remotely meets the needs of the people who must travel outside their communities for specialized medical care. While this government refuses to review the adequacy of the travel grant program and in fact is spending $6 million a year less than they did five years ago on this program-

Mr Alvin Curling (Scarborough-Rouge River): Shame.

Mr Gravelle: It is a shame. People are spending thousands of dollars of their own hard-earned money to seek medical care elsewhere. In the meantime, this government has made a decision to pay the full cost of cancer patients who reside in southern Ontario, because of the mess they made of that system, to receive treatment in northwestern Ontario, at the cancer centre in Thunder Bay. While we feel for these people very strongly, the government is truly being unfair.

While northerners are being treated as second-class citizens by the province, people from other parts of the province are having their travel, accommodation and meal costs looked after by the government. This is nothing more than discrimination. It's an issue that all of us in the north find unacceptable and will continue to fight.

I cannot tell you the number of people I've spoken to whose lives have been altered in such a dramatic fashion as a result of the fact that they must seek medical help elsewhere. If the government will acknowledge that indeed there is help that is required, they have to acknowledge that this program no longer meets those needs. It is something we want to continue to fight for.

If I may, in my last moments as well, I'd like to make reference to the eating disorders program at St Joseph's Care Group, an extraordinarily important program funded out of the operating funds of the hospital. They fund eating disorder programs in other parts of the province but will not do it in Thunder Bay, in northwestern Ontario. We think that is just dreadful as well and we will continue to fight to get them to understand that that is needed.

The Speaker (Hon Gary Carr): Further debate?

Mr Ted Chudleigh (Halton): Let me just say how disappointed Ontarians are that the Prime Minister just recently has refused to meet with the premiers of the provinces to discuss what is perhaps the most difficult and impending problem that Canadians face across this entire country-not just in this province but across the entire country. The Prime Minister of this country, the leader of this country, has refused to meet with the premiers to discuss this in very real terms.

Mr Marcel Beaubien (Lambton-Kent-Middlesex): Why is that?

Mr Chudleigh: "Why is that?" asks my friend from Petrolia. He comes from a riding which surrounds Petrolia-it's basically Petrolia, isn't it?

Mr Beaubien: Well, Lambton-Kent-Middlesex.

Mr Chudleigh: He asks, "Why is that?" I suspect it's because they have nothing to bring to the table. They have no ideas. They are devoid of ideas. They have nothing to bring to the table and they are afraid of coming to the table to be embarrassed, so they have refused this meeting.

Ontario, on the other hand, has had a great deal of leadership in the health care area across Canada. In 1995, when we were elected, our health budget, as the opposition has heard, was approximately $17.4 billion. In the intervening five years or so, that budget has increased to $20.8 billion, while at the same time Ottawa has withdrawn $1.7 billion of their share of that funding. So not only did we have to increase the budget to $20.8 billion, but we had to make up that $1.7 billion that Ottawa refused to contribute to Ontario's health care system. So, yes, we are looking for help from Ottawa, for their fair share.

Where at one time they funded practically 50% of the health care system in Ontario, today that ratio has dropped to 11%. Out of every dollar that goes into health care in Ontario, rather than Ottawa spending their fair share of 50%, they are instead spending 11 cents, while Ontario is contributing 89 cents of every dollar going into health care, certainly a far cry from what the Canada Health Act envisioned as a sharing of the health care dollars between Ontario and Ottawa. The federal Liberals have clawed back much of that money out of the Canada health and social transfer programs, leaving Ontario in a deficit position as far as that health care budget is concerned.

The Ontario government has been working hard over the past five years on reforms and innovations to the health care system as we implement our vision for health care. We have a health care action plan to allow us to accomplish this. Now the feds are just trying to join the race and they're running hard in order to get to the start of the parade, a parade that already started without them.

Primary care reform is not new to Ontario, and it is important to emphasize this fact in the Legislature today. Ontario is a leader in primary care reform, and we have been working since 1995 in partnership with the Ontario Medical Association on primary care initiatives. The government of Ontario has consistently stated that it is committed to the idea of primary care and will continue to move ahead with its implementation. However, unlike Dalton McGuinty's Liberals over there, we are doing it in partnership with doctors, not at odds with doctors.

Mr Beaubien: We believe in co-operation.

Mr Chudleigh: We believe in co-operation. Absolutely.

The federal government has talked about pharmacare programs and drug programs. They have talked about it; Ontario has done something about it.

The federal Liberal government has often spoken about the need to establish a national pharmacare program; indeed, it was an election commitment by the federal government. Unfortunately, since the election we haven't heard another word about it. In its five years of governance, this government-I can remember many times in this House thinking, as the minister made an announcement during routine proceedings, "There is another promise that we made during the election, another promise kept." Unfortunately, that doesn't happen when you get just a short distance away from here to Ottawa. There the reverse is true: Election promises are seldom kept.

However, we have not waited for the federal leadership to act. The government of Ontario has been working for a number of years reforming and enhancing Ontario's drug programs. It is important to provide information on the work done on this program to remind both the House and the federal government that this government has an action plan for health care and for implementing this plan today. Costs in this area are rising fast, and with the growing and aging population, this growth and expense will only increase. It is time for the federal government to assume their fair share of these costs.

In Ontario we have three stages of drug programs. Ontario's drug programs include the Ontario drug benefit program, the Trillium drug plan and the special drugs program. The Ontario drug benefit program is the largest plan, and it covers over 3,100 prescription drugs. Since our government took office in 1995, 1,018 products have been added to the ODB, providing new and innovative drugs that will help people live with their diseases or recover from them. The $1.6-billion program covers about 2.2 million seniors and social assistance recipients in Ontario. There were 44 million prescriptions written under this program in 1998-99.

The Trillium drug program is a very unique program. The Trillium drug program is for those who are not otherwise eligible for the Ontario drug benefit program but who may have very high drug costs. Approximately 100,000 Ontarians who need expensive drugs to treat serious illnesses like cancer, HIV and cystic fibrosis have their drugs paid for through this program. Expenditures for the Trillium drug program for 1998-99 totalled $45.5 million, up from $35 million the year before.

The special drugs program covers the full cost of certain expensive outpatient drugs such as special drugs for AIDS, organ transplants, cystic fibrosis, schizophrenia and thalassemia. The program provides funding for over 12,000 beneficiaries, at a cost of approximately $92 million annually.

Extensive reform and innovation is being demonstrated by the government of Ontario in the area of drug programs. If the federal government has any ideas about health care reform, we look forward with anticipation to hearing about those reforms, but we have heard nothing new to date from the federal Liberal government. The federal Liberal government must immediately restore the $4.2 billion in the Canada health and social transfer funding for health care that it slashed so that we can use that funding to support our important health care innovations.

The government of Ontario recognized upon taking office in 1995 that we have a rapidly aging population and that it was important to plan now for that future. If anyone had the opportunity to read the book Boom, Bust and Echo by David Foot, it points out very clearly what is going to happen to the Canadian health program if you don't take major steps today to put that program, that whole health care system, into a mode that will support huge numbers of people as that boom, bust and echo begins to happen in Ontario.

The Minister of Health, on behalf of the government of Ontario, provided Allan Rock, the federal Minister of Health, with information last week on what we are doing in the areas of home care and long-term-care needs and asked him for any comments and suggestions about our programs. Again, I'm afraid I have to report that at this point in time we have heard nothing, not one word, from Minister Rock. If the federal government supports home care and long-term care for some of our most vulnerable citizens, it should restore the $4.2 billion in CHST health funding it cut from the provinces that could be used to support important programs such as these.

Home care: Ontario has one of the most generous home care programs in Canada. The Ministry of Health currently spends about $1.5 billion annually on home care and community care services. From 1994-95 to 1999-2000, funding for community services increased by 49% and in-home services funding increased by 56%. Ontario provides the most generous levels of home care services in Canada-$115 per capita. The next closest is Manitoba at $97 per capita.

Community care access centres: In 1996, this government established 43 community care access centres across the province, offering support to Ontario residents who seek community based long-term health care. This allows services to be delivered closer to home for Ontario citizens. CCACs coordinate access to homemaking, nursing, therapy and other services to people at home, as well as providing long-term-care facility placements and vital information to caregivers about the services and support available to their family and friends.

In April 1998, this government announced the largest-ever expansion in health care services to Ontario. The government will be investing $1.2 billion to improve long-term-care facilities and community programs. No new long-term-care beds had been built in this province for over a decade, while the senior population had been growing. By adding these new beds, our government will ensure that necessary long-term-care facilities and services will be in place to meet the demands that the future will place on us. This program will create more than 20,000 new long-term-care beds in the province and will add to that number the renovation of a further 13,000 beds.

In the area of mental health, our extensive mental health reforms include leading a consultative review on mental health reform in Ontario, which was led by Dan Newman, the new Minister of the Environment. He began a mental health law education project to inform Ontarians, especially professionals, about their rights and responsibilities under existing mental health legislation. We developed a provincial forensic policy and opened 446 new forensic beds across the province. We initiated a review of the Mental Health Act and related legislation to ensure that the mental health service delivery system is accessible, accountable, cost-efficient and promotes public safety.

It's a pleasure to stand here and talk about the accomplishments that we have made here in Ontario and how much greater those accomplishments could be if the federal government would re-establish the $4.2 billion they took out of Ontarians' pockets with their cuts to health care. Perhaps one of the most telling comments that I see in these notes is a quote from Allan Rock in a speech that he made on August 20, 1997:

"I will not stand here and tell you that the cuts in transfer payments we made were insignificant. They were not. And I won't tell you that they have not had an impact. They have."

Mr Rock fixed the problem.

Since 1994-95, the federal government has cut $4.2 billion from health care transfer payments to the provinces, and over the same period Ontario has increased health care spending by over $3 billion here in Ontario. It is clear that the federal Liberals are responsible for the largest health funding cut in Canadian history. In the last budget, the federal Liberals had a chance to rectify their problems by restoring the funding. They had a surplus, but failed to inject more money into our health care system. In short, the federal government has failed to live up to its commitments to the people of Ontario.

Once again, the federal government has failed to recognize the needs of the growing and aging population in Ontario. The $2.5 billion in one-time funding in the last budget is clearly not enough.

I'd like to take a bit of time from this debate to boast a little bit about the hospitals and the health care services that we have in my riding of Simcoe North. They rank as some of the best in our province.

Yearly, hospitals around the province are evaluated in four general areas, and Soldiers' Memorial Hospital in Orillia is the only hospital in Ontario rated above average two years in a row for the amount of staff time devoted to patients. As well, the hospital is a recipient of the National Quality Institute's Canada Award for Excellence: Quality-Health Care, "for a strong and ongoing commitment to continuously improving the patient experience and responding to the changing needs of the community." As well, I should point out that currently in our hospital, at the Orillia Soldiers, we're trying to put our final plans together to get approval for a major redevelopment project.

In the western part of my riding, the Penetanguishene General Hospital and the Huronia District Hospital saw the inefficiencies in their two hospitals long before the restructuring commission and decided to form an alliance to eliminate those inefficiencies and reinvest those dollars back into the health care system of the area. This is one of the most important elements of health care system reform, health care providers working together to improve a system. That is what these two hospitals have done in Midland and Penetang, and I commend them and their staff for those efforts.

In February, I had the honour of taking

part in the opening of a new kidney dialysis unit at the Penetanguishene General Hospital. This temporary service will give local dialysis patients in the western part of the riding three-times-a-week access to local treatment. These services will ensure that some of north Simcoe's patients do not have to drive to Orillia, which will relieve pressure on the Orillia Regional Dialysis Centre at Soldiers' Memorial Hospital. I'm proud to represent this hard-working, determined team of health care professionals.

According to the Health Services Restructuring Commission, which was created by this government to look at ways of reforming our health care system, a plan was created for the hospitals in our province to become more efficient and more effective. The HSRC also urged the government to approve more long-term-care beds for our seniors.

I'd like to inform this House that construction is taking place in both Orillia and Midland for the creation of more long-term-care beds, as outlined in our government's health action plan. At the new Village of Leacock Point Health Care Centre in Orillia, we are building 68 new long-term-care beds and that construction is just beginning now. At St Andrew's Centennial Manor in Midland, about 100 long-term-care beds are being created for the fine people of Simcoe North. This is a redevelopment project.

Since the Harris government was elected, 533 new long-term-care beds have been allocated to Simcoe county. This fits in quite nicely with the two manors, the Georgian Manor and the Trillium Manor in my riding that are operated by the county of Simcoe.

The provincial government has also committed to update 303 long-term-care beds in Simcoe county alone. Provincially, this government has committed to creating over 20,000 new long-term-care beds, which will improve access to community based services for an additional 100,000 Ontarians. I am proud to be part of a government that understands the long-term-care needs not only of my riding, but of my county and my province.

While hospital reforms creating new long-term-care beds are important, giving Ontarians access to a doctor is one of the foundations of our health care system. That is why our government introduced primary care networks in 1998. Primary care networks are made up of family doctors joining together in their communities to provide easier access to health services and better coordination of health information through computers. The networks will help reduce waste and duplication in the health care system.

Health service is of higher quality because there is better communication about the patient's health. The family doctor, nurse or health care professional that the patient deals with will keep his family doctor informed about his or her own health care problem.

I would like to encourage the federal government to take a look at how we are providing ambulance services in Simcoe county based on a 50-50 agreement between the province and the county. I guess I should explain, for the benefit of the federal government, the province agrees to pay half of the cost of ambulance services while the county agrees to pay the other half. Wouldn't it be nice if the federal government paid at least a quarter of the health care funding to the province instead of the 11% that we are receiving now?

The federal government likes to make an argument that they did not cut health care funding, but one only has to look at their election platform of 1997 where they admit that they cut health care funding despite this phony tax point argument, an argument, I might add, that has been called meaningless, according to CIBC Wood Gundy economist Jeffrey Rubin. I quote from the Liberal campaign book, "It is a fact that, during our first mandate, this government reduced transfer payments to the provinces." Where do these transfer payments go, you might be asking? Into health care, into the hospitals, nursing homes, health units and the providers of this service in Ontario.

While federal Minister Rock talks about improving access to doctors, Ontario is doing it. Rock talks about expanding home care and community care; Ontario is doing it. Rock talks about health care reform; Ontario is doing it. I would like to thank Mr Rock for admitting the mistakes of the past, but I would encourage them to correct them. The citizens of Canada and the province of Ontario expect and deserve more from their federal government.

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): Thank you for allowing me the privilege to offer a few comments with regard to this motion.

Because there is an amendment to the amendment of the main motion, the people of Ontario should know that under the rules we will be able to debate the amendment to the amendment and then the amendment and then finally the motion, so every member in this House will have ample opportunity to put their point of view forward. The only thing that could ever stop that would be of course if the government invoked closure on their own motion. I would hope that the government wouldn't do that, which would allow every member in this House-103 members-to ensure that their points of view are made clearly, succinctly, and certainly with the best interests of their constituents in mind.

First of all, I'd like to talk a little bit about the Lankin amendment. In general, the Lankin amendment simply states that we have to ensure that we're opposed to privatization in our health care system; that we are opposed to two-tier medicine in this province. Certainly I'll be supporting this type of motion because I see what is happening in Ralph Klein's Alberta. We all know that we don't want that to happen in Ontario, so the safeguard here is if we support the Lankin amendment. It's not very complicated. It casts no blame. It just ensures that two-tier medicine won't come to Ontario.

Our Liberal amendment lays blame in both places, both at the federal government and at the foot of the provincial government. I'm in agreement with that because I've long argued, over the course of the last five years now, that we were making fundamental mistakes in health care in the province of Ontario.

Speaker, you will know that I get up here quite often and rant and rave and sometimes, hopefully, make salient points to ensure the government is held accountable for what I see are weaknesses in their plan to implement restructuring of health care services in Ontario. So I have no problem supporting the amendment by the Liberal Party. It doesn't cast blame; it ensures that both people, both governments, do their job.

I have some concerns with the main motion because the main motion is nothing more than trying to lay blame as opposed to doing something very constructive. I'm reminded of a television show, and I know it's a little bit corny to draw this analogy but the reality is there. There is a very popular television show, probably about six months old now, hosted by Regis Philbin called Who Wants to be a Millionaire? Mike Harris has been hosting a show for the last five years as well. The name of his show is Who Wants to Take the Blame?

When the government created a crisis in education, Mike Harris was the first one to say, "Let's cast blame on the trustees, you know, those overpaid trustees, the ones who do nothing for education." When that didn't work any more, he said, "Let's blame the school boards." When that didn't work any more, he said, "Let's blame the parents." When that didn't fly, he said, "Let's blame the students." That went over like a lead balloon, so he found the group he wanted to blame and said, "Let's blame the teachers." The reality is that in Ontario the way we've avoided a crisis in education is because of the dedication and the support our teachers have given to our students.

Let's move on and talk a little bit about fuel prices. You remember that this past year, the summer in particular, Mike Harris was quick, when the truckers decided it was time they took action, to say, "It's the truckers' fault, they haven't negotiated good contracts," or, "It's the oil companies' fault, they're ripping off the consumers," or, "It's the consumers' fault because they're driving too much." The reality is that constitutionally and legislatively the only one who can accept blame for rising gas prices is the Premier, Mike Harris.

Let's talk a little bit about social services costs for only a second. Who did he blame then? Well, it was the pregnant mothers on welfare. They drank too much beer. That's why social services costs were escalating. Let's lay the blame there because it's a popular thing to do. When it wasn't popular any more, he moved away from it.

Finally we come to health care. Four years ago Mike Harris said: "It's the nurses' fault. It's the doctors' fault. It's the hospital administrator's fault. It's the board's fault." We have a crisis in our health care system. We have to repair this crisis. We need restructuring in the system.

He blamed all the partners in education. He established a commission to go about the province and restructure. That commission has issued its final report. It lists seven recommendations with regard to system building. If time permits in this 20 minutes, I will deal with a few of those; if not, I will deal with them in the next 20 minutes I have; if I can't deal with them then, we'll deal with them in the final 20 minutes I have with regard to the way the amendment to the amendment and the amendment and the main motion are debated.

The people in my community know clearly where I stand. They told me clearly about five months ago: "Rick, we agree that the government moved too quickly. We agree, as the new health minister, Elizabeth Witmer, said, `We don't have a vision for health care.'"

They agreed with her then and they agree with her now when she has to stand up in the House and say, "There is no plan for health care." They agree with all that, but you know what they don't agree with? They do not agree with the government casting blame on the federal government. They don't agree with everyone around here blaming everybody else for the problems we have. And so, my community said: "It's time we stop fighting over health care. It's time we started fighting for health care."

My community agrees with my leader that it's time we put away the sword. It's time we put away the guns. It's time we put away the rhetoric. It's time that we come together to find the solutions to the problems we have in health care in the province of Ontario, because we, as members of provincial Parliament, are mandated to find those solutions.

Is the federal government a player in all of this? There is no question the federal government is a player. They have a part to play in it. In fact, they have a very important part to play in it. We expect that they will live up to that part, and we want the 103 MPs in the province of Ontario to fight at the federal level to ensure that the commitment, the obligations and the responsibilities of the federal government are lived up to.

The reality is that we can no longer do what we've been doing for too long. We can no longer yell across the way to each other, calling each other names, saying, "You're to blame," "I'm to blame," "He's to blame," "She's to blame." No more. It's not going to fly with the public any longer. Not only my constituents, but I guarantee every constituent in the province of Ontario has said: "I've had it. I want my elected people to come together to work for a better health care system, to stop fighting over health care and start fighting together for health care to solve the problems we have."

My community is a very progressive community. It's not waiting for governments to come together. It's not waiting for the name-calling to cease. My community has decided, "If there's a job to do, we'll do it." But there are some limitations that my community has to face, and I want to outline a few of those to you and to the House.

To do that, I have to spend a very short time going back in history to the restructuring report and the direction it took. Certainly