Manitoba Hansard — 20 June 2013 (Sitting 62B, 40th Legislature, 2nd Session)

40-2-62b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXV No. 62B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, June 20, 2013 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne St.

James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St.

Johns NDP MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden PC MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon. Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel NDP MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto NDP WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC Vacant Morris

2571 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, June 20, 2013 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PETITIONS Provincial Sales Tax Increase–Referendum Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

(2) Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum.

(3) An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families.

(4) Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. And, Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by J. Lowdon, D. Gonty, B. Kerneh and many, many other Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House. Mr. Kelvin Goertzen ( Steinbach): Yes, good afternoon, Mr. Speaker.

I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election. Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum. An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families. Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. And, Mr. S peaker, this is signed by N. Penner, M. Penner, S. Penner and many other Manitobans. Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. And these are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum. An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families. Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. This petition's signed by E. Harder, B. Bobyk and C. Ireland and many, many more fine Manitobans.

Municipal Amalgamations–Reversal Mrs. Leanne Rowat (Riding Mountain): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

2572 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 20, 2013 The provincial government recently announced plans to amalgamate any municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents. The provincial government did not consult with or notify the affected municipalities of this decision prior to the Throne Speech announced on November 19th, 2012, and has further imposed unrealistic deadlines. If the provincial government imposes amalgamations, local democratic representation will be drastically limited without–while not providing any real improvements in cost savings.

Local governments are further concerned that amalgamation will fail to address the serious issues currently facing municipalities, including an absence of reliable infrastructure funding and timely flood compensation. Municipalities deserve to be treated with respect. Any amalgamations should be voluntary in nature and led by the municipalities themselves. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Local Government afford local governments the respect they deserve and reverse his decision to force municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents to amalgamate.

This petition's signed by J. Woloski, T. Christie, M. Alex and many, many more Manitobans. Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows: The provincial government recently an nounced plans to amalgamate any municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents. The provincial government did not consult with or notify the affected municipalities of this decision prior to the Throne Speech announcement on November 19th, 2012, and ha s further imposed unrealistic deadlines.

If the provincial government imposes amalgamations, local democratic representation will be drastically limited while not providing any real improvements in cost savings. Local governments are further concerned th at amalgamation will fail to address the serious issues currently facing municipalities, including an absence of reliable infrastructure funding and timely flood compensation. Municipalities deserve to be treated with respect. Any amalgamations should be voluntary in nature and led by the municipalities themselves.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Local Government afford local governments the respect they deserve and reverse his decision to for ce municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents to amalgamate. And this petition is signed by R. Kaastra, V. White, C. Palmer and many more fine Manitobans. Mr. Cliff Cullen (Spruce Woods): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The background to this petition is as follows: The provincial government recently announced plans to amalgamate any municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents. The provincial government did not consult with or notify the affected municipalities of this decision prior to the Throne Speech announcement on November 19th, 2012, and has further imposed unrealistic deadlines. If the provincial government imposes amalgamations, local democratic representation will be drastically limited while not providing any real improvements in cost savings.

Local governments are further concerned that amalgamation will fail to address the serious issues currently facing municipalities, including an absence of reliable infrastructure funding and timel y flood compensation. Municipalities deserve to be treated with respect. Any amalgamations should be voluntary in nature and led by the municipalities themselves. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Local Government afford local governments the respect they deserve and reverse his decision to force municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents to amalgamate.

June 20, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2573 This petition is signed by J. Kelley, L. Gelbanks and G. Campbell and many other fine Manitobans. Provincial Sales Tax Increase–Referendum Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election. Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum.

An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families. Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. This petition is submitted on behalf of J. Montgomery, S. Allan, M. Corbin and many other fine Manitobans. Municipal Amalgamations–Reversal Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur- Virden): Mr. Speaker, I'd like to prese nt the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba.

And the background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provincial government recently announced plans to amalgamate any municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents.

(2) The pr ovincial government did not consult with or notify the affected municipalities of this decision prior to the Throne Speech announcement on November 19th, 2012, and has further imposed unrealistic deadlines. * (13:40)

(3) If the provincial government imposes amalgamations, local democratic representation will be drastically limited while not providing any real improvements in cost savings.

(4) Local governments are further concerned that amalgamation will fail to address the serious issues currently facing municipalities, including an absence of reliable infrastructure funding and timely flood compensation.

(5) Municipalities deserve to be treated with respect. Any amalgamations should be voluntary in nature and led by the municipalities themselves. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Local Government afford local governments the respect they deserve and reverse his decision to force municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents to amalgamate. And, Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by J. Engbrecht, L. Olson, K. Olson and many, many other fine Manitobans. Ring Dike Road–Ste. Rose du Lac Mr.

Stuart Briese (Agassiz): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. And these are the reasons for this petition: The Ring Dike Road is a well -used gravel municipal road that is used as a secondary road in and out of the community of Ste. Rose du Lac. Given this heavy pattern of use, there is strong interest in the community in seeing the Ring Dike Road upgraded to a paved provincial road. It would be most cost -effective to upgrade the Ring Dike Road to a provincial road at the same time the upgrades are being undertaken at the junction of PTH 68 and PTH 5.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To request the Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation to consider upgrading the Ring Dike Road at Ste. Rose du Lac into a provincial road, and (2) to request the Minister of Infrastru cture and Transportation to consider upgrading the Ring Dike Road at the same time that work is being done on the junction of PTH 68 and PTH 5. This petition is signed by H. Fortin, C. Lavasseur, V. Campbell and many, many other fine Manitobans.

2574 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 20, 2013 Provincial Sales Tax Increase–Referendum Mrs. Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition: The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election. Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum. An increase in the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families.

Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. And this petition is signed by G. Anderson, L. Semeniuk, L. Graham and many, many other Manitobans. Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

(2) Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum.

(3) An incr ease to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families.

(4) Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. Signed by E. King, E. Pluchinsky, P. Ryan and many other Manitobans. Mr. Ron Schuler (St. Paul): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislativ e Assembly of Manitoba. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

(2) Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum.

(3) An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families.

(4) Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. This is signed by M. Whyte, K. Valdez, C. St. George and many, many other Manitobans. Mr. Dennis Smo ok (La Verendrye) : I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

(2) Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum.

(3) An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families.

(4) Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democrati c right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. This petition is signed by G.H. An derson, K.W. Wardle and L. Conan and many more fine Manitobans.

June 20, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2575 Municipal Amalgamations–Reversal Mr. Cameron Friesen (Morden -Winkler): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government recently announced plans to amalgamate any municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents.

(2) The provincial government did not consult with or notify the affected municipalities of this decision prior to the T hrone Speech announcement of November 19th, 2012, and has further imposed unrealistic deadlines.

(3) If the provincial government imposes amalgamations, local democratic representation will be drastically limited while not providing any real improvements in cost savings. Local governments are further concerned that amalgamation will fail to address the serious issues currently facing municipalities, including an absence of reliable infrastructure funding and timely flood compensation.

(5) Municipalities deserve to be treated with respect. Any amalgamations should be voluntary in nature and led by the municipalities themselves. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Local Government afford local gove rnments the respect they deserve and reverse his decision to force municipalities with fewer than 1,000 constituents to amalgamate. And this petition is signed by A. Bloomer, S. Atech and F. Greengrass and many, many others. Provincial Sales Tax Increase–Referendum Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The provincial government promised not to raise taxes in the last election.

(2) Through Bill 20, the provincial government wants to increase the retail sales tax, known as the PST, by one point without the legally required referendum.

(3) An increase to the PST is excessive taxation that will harm Manitoba families.

(4) Bill 20 strips Manitobans of their democratic right to determine when major tax increases are necessary. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to not raise the PST without holding a provincial referendum. And this petition is signed by C. Pattman, G. Romijn and S. Tucker and many, many more fine Manitobans. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Flor Marcelino (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Tourism): I am pleased to table the 2013-2014 Departmental Expenditure Esti mates for Culture, Heritage and Tourism. * (13:50) Hon. Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the report under

section 43(1) of The Fatality Inquiries Act for 2012. Mr. Speaker: Any further tabling of reports? Seeing none– MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS National Aboriginal Day Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of A boriginal and Northern Affairs): Yes, I have a statement for the House. Mr. Speaker, tomorrow, June 21st, marks the summer solstice and National Aboriginal Day. Five years ago, the federal apology to the First Nations, Metis and Inuit survivors of residential schools raised great expectations that a period of reconciliation and transformation was beginning. Sadly, this hope has yet to be realized.

Last year, we saw the rise of Idle No More in response to the lack of commitment to change. Trauma from the school abuses continues now through another generation, but the spirit and resilience continues. Tonight at the Keeping the Fires Burning annual celebration, we salute the grandmothers who have been so important in our culture. They have endured

2576 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 20, 2013 much but have survived and nurtured our youth in often horrific situations. As the media routinely points out, there is seemingly no limit to the list of tr agic statistics concerning our people from health, housing, poverty and involvement in the justice system. It is too easy to dwell in these statistics of misery and say that there are no answers. That, in my opinion, is not acceptable. We all have a resp onsibility to do what we can to restore the honour of the Crown and to truly live up to the spirit and intent of the treaties.

We are all treaty people regardless of our status. I am proud that our government has taken the lead on acting on the issue of m issing and murdered Aboriginal women and girls. Our efforts have helped make this a national issue, something that we have championed as the chair of the Aboriginal ministers and leaders of the national Aboriginal organizations working group. Next month we are hosting the fourth annual Wiping Away the Tears gathering for families of victims of the violence against Aboriginal women.

Manito Ahbee, now in its eighth year, begins August 16th with the lighting of the sacred fire at Oodena circle at the Forks. Our support for powwows and other festivals are essential to keeping our culture alive. The East Side Road Authority, with the support of all 13 First Nations, is making real progress in the development of a two -road network serving the remote communities of the province. Similarly, the development of the University College of the North, with 12 regional centres, nine of them on reserves, is bringing opportunities to communities.

Future development in the north is largely dependent on the participation of the First Nations. That is why we have partnered with the Nisichawayasihk Cree Nation on the Wuskwatim project and are partnering with several First Nations on both the Conawapa and the Keeyask projects. Our water retrofit project bringing running water to the Island Lake communities is training residents who are doing the actual work. One hundred homes were done last year and another 218 homes scheduled for this year. This is genuine progress and to be celebrated.

The First Peoples Economic Growth Fund, the Communities Economic Development Fund and, soon, the Metis Economic Development Fund are helping create jobs and opportunities on and off reserves. I am very proud that our government has worked with the MMF to jointly develop a Metis policy and harvesting agreement, amongst other unique projects. Last week we celebrated the Aki Energy project that will convert 100 homes to geothermal heating and cooling in Fisher River and Peguis First Nations.

Thirty members of the two communities have been trained to do the conversions, creating both jobs and new business opportunities for band- owned construction companies. I salute all involved in this important project and look forward to further such projects in other First Nations. Tomorrow, amongst a number of important National Aboriginal Day events at –the University of Manitoba will celebrate becoming the host of the archives of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. It is a fitting location for the archi ves, and I am pleased that the province is playing a small role in helping this decision.

Other events tomorrow include World Peace and Prayer Day at the Memorial Park and Aboriginal solidarity powwow at The Forks. This Saturday there is a full day of entertainment at The Forks celebrating National Aboriginal Day and the achievements of Aboriginal people. I encourage everyone to take in the many events, whether in Winnipeg, Selkirk, The Pas, Churchill or the many communities across this province. Ekosani, miigwech, mahseecho, wopida, mutna, hei hei, merci, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mrs.

Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs for his statement to the House today. Mr. Speaker, tom orrow, June 21st, is National Aboriginal Day. Proclaimed by the Governor General in 1996, National Aboriginal Day provides all Canadians the opportunity to acknowledge the unique achievements of First Nations, Metis and Inuit in a wide range of diverse fields. National Aboriginal Day normally falls around the time of the summer solstice, the longest day of the year.

For generations, many Aboriginal people have celebrated their culture and heritage at this time of year. Whether Metis, Inuit or First Nation, each have their own distinct heritage, language, cultural

June 20, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2577 practices and spiritual beliefs. National Aboriginal Day goes a long way in recognizing the important characteristics, language and heritage of Canada's Aboriginal people. The relationship between Aboriginal people has grown and evolved since the time that the treaties were signed, and this relationship continues to evolve. Manitoba has a rich Aboriginal history, and National Aboriginal Day allows us to recognize that this history is a part of who we are as Manitobans.

It is important that this history and this relationship are recognized and celebrated, and National Aboriginal Day reminds us of the importance of the treaties to our province and our country. Over the course of this past week, numer ous events were held all across the province, culminating in National Aboriginal Day live festival–festivities at The Forks on Saturday. There have also been number–have been summer solstice ceremonies across the city and across the province in conjunction with National Aboriginal Day festivities. Mr.

Speaker, I would ask my colleagues and all of the members of this House to join me in celebrating National Aboriginal Day and in honouring the achievements of Aboriginal people in our province. Thank you. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I ask leave to speak to the minister's statement. Mr. Speaker: Does the honourable member for River Heights have leave to speak to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Mr. Gerrard: I join the other members of the Legislature in honouring the fact that we have, tomorrow, National Aboriginal Day.

I was pleased to have been a Member of Parliament in Ottawa with Elijah Harper when this was initially recognized and formally made National Aboriginal Day and want to pay tribute to E lijah's role in ensuring that that happened. As the minister says, the Idle No More movement has signalled that we still have a long way to go, and certainly some recent reports, the Poverty or Prosperity report released yesterday which says Canada cannot and need not allow yet another generation of indigenous citizens to languish in poverty, certainly speaks to the long way we still have to go.

And the day before's report by the Canadian Human Rights Commission on equality rights of Aboriginal people agai n documents widespread shortcomings, though it also documents some progress. I'm pleased that there has been some steps forward in addressing the clean running water issues, but there are still hundreds of homes yet in northern Manitoba which don't have clean running water. And we need to have the determination to continue until the job is done. * (14:00) We have to remember that there's still approximately 2,000 people from Lake St.

Martin, Little Saskatchewan and Dauphin River who are not yet back in t heir homes, and we need to dedicate ourselves to make sure that that happens as soon as possible. I think we can note the progress that's being made in post -secondary education and the fact that our post -secondary education institutions, the University of Manitoba, the University of Winnipeg, Brandon University and Red River College, in particular, have been making some significant progress, as has the University College of the North in this regard.

So I join others here in recommending that all Manitobans come out and celebrate National Aboriginal Day, celebrate Manitoba's and Canada's Aboriginal heritage, because it's a really important part of who we are as Manitobans and as Canadians. So I join others, ekosani, miigwech, mahseecho, wopida, mutna, hei hei, merci, thank you. Introduction of Guests Mr.

Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today g uests from the All India Ping lewara Charitable Society , Manitoba chapter, who are the guests of the honourable member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe). And also in the public gallery, we have members from the South Osborne Arts Group, who are the guests of the honourable member for Fort Garry-Riverview (Mr. Allum). And also in the public gallery, we have with us today from Laureate Academy 11 grade 3 to 5 students under the direction of Ms. Karen Dyck.

This group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for St. Norbert (Mr. Gaudreau). On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome all of you here this afternoon.

2578 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 20, 2013 ORAL QUESTIONS PST Increase Referendum Request Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): It's very hard to believe, Mr. Speaker, it's almost 46 years ago in our centennial year that Otis Redding penned a classic hit, Respect, and Aretha Franklin, of course, made it famous with her beautiful version of it: What you want / Baby, I got it–you know–What you need / Baby, I got it / You know I got it. The government hums that song, I'm sure, every day as they tax Manitobans, Mr. Speaker.

But the reality is as they take that money away from the people of this province, they shouldn't be taking the people of this province for granted. They should show just a little respect, just a little bit. And as they go around the province preening for the cameras and prancing around as the peacocks do, doing their ribbon cuttings, they need to remember something. They need to remember all those ribbon cuttings are f inanced by people, real people in our province, real people who deserve some respect.

So I want to ask the Premier today if he would finally just show a little bit, just a little bit, of respect for the people of this province and let them have a vote on whether or not they want to give him their money in the new PST hike. Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, I appreciate the question from the Leader of the Opposition, and I know that we have a tremendous amount that needs to be done in this provinc e with the building and renewal program, and whether it's safe communities from flooding, whether it's schools, whether it's the infrastructure projects we've announced, it's all about creating a better quality of life for Manitobans while keeping Manitoba one of the most 'infordable' to live in the country.

The member knows full well that the last time the members opposite were in office that their tax rates were higher in every category and a family paid $2,400 to $3,400 more in taxes. Today they pay le ss taxes. We have better schools and hospitals, better streets and roads, and now we're going to protect people from flooding in the same way we did in the Red River Valley, Mr. Speaker. Future Tax Increases Government Intent Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader o f the Official Opposition): And every Province we compete with, Mr. Speaker, has lowered taxes more than the NDP has. We're falling further behind.

You know, she's–Aretha Franklin sang, sock it to me, but she didn't mean tax hikes, Mr. Speaker. Socking i t to flood victims isn't the answer to respect. Socking it to middle class people who are struggling or people trying to get out of poverty is hardly showing respect. Socking it to a horse racing industry that employs 500 Manitobans is not respectful. And disrespecting, of course, federal partners, municipal partners and democratically elected people from Manitoba doing their best to represent Manitobans is hardly the way to build a strong relationship that works.

You know, we've got a lot of people getting socked by these high taxes, and the problem is seniors are unable to afford a trip to see their grandkids in another province or small business people can't afford to create more jobs and opportunities for Manitobans. So I guess I have to ask the Premier, while he's doing all this socking, who's next? Who's he going to sock it to next year? Is he going to raise the taxes in this province again next year? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, it was just a few weeks ago that –it was just a few weeks ago the Leader of the Opposition wanted to implement what he called a chill in the province of Manitoba. He wanted to take $52 million of cuts in the health-care system, which would put our seniors at risk. It would put our young families at risk. I t would put the folks that are ill in this province at risk. They voted against the $10- million program to eliminate the cost of cancer -care drugs for people that are trying to make a living and continue to support their families. We put that in place. T hey voted against it and opposed it.

They wanted to reduce funding across the boards for our schools when we have a growing province with a growing number of young families that need those school opportunities in Manitoba, and we've gone out and we've announced those new schools and we'll put them in place so that young families have a chance to participate in the labour market.

June 20, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2579 Their version of growing Manitoba is to start by cutting it and laying people off. Government Spending Respect for Manitobans Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Of course, the Premier subscribes to the belief no matter how many times he repeats misinformation, he actually believes it may come true. But the fact of the matter is putting misrepresentations on the record doesn't make them true.

One representation he might like to put on the record is an apology for breaking his promise to Manitobans in the last election when he said he wouldn't raise taxes. And the fact is Aretha was right when she said my–your kisses are sweeter than honey, and guess what, so is my money. The reality is it was her money, and she deserved respect and that's why she sang the song so well. And Manitobans deserve respect too, for earning the money, for taking the chances and the risks to create the real jobs in this province. This government has no respect for those kinds of people, hard-working people.

The reality is the NDP goes around this province misrepresenting the facts, claiming they create jobs. They don't create jobs; Manitobans create jobs. They claim they build bridges and roads. They don't build bridges and roads; Manitobans build bridges and roads. They don't build schools and hospitals; Manitobans build schools and hospitals, the real people of this province, real working people working their tail off. Show some respect, just a little bit of respect. Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): I agree with the Leader of the Opposition. When we're in government Manitobans are building this province, Mr. Speaker.

But there's a contrast–but there's a contrast– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Order, please. The honourable First Minister has the floor. Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, it's true. We are building the province of Manitoba and Manitobans are participating in that. We have more people employed in this province than ever in the history of Manitoba. When we employed Manitobans to build the floodway to protect Winnipeg, the Leader of the Opposition went out and said, stop it; stop it in its tracks.

When we build Manitoba Hydro with the people of northern Manitoba, the Leader of the Opposition says, stop it. Don't build it. When we were building hospitals in Manitoba, the Leader of the Opposition says, we can't afford to do that. When he was in of fice, they cancelled the entire program for health care. No personal care homes, no hospitals, none of that was done. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. PST Increase Referendum Request Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Mr. Speaker, 11 days from now the NDP government will force an illegal PST hike on Manitobans.

This will have a negative impact on all Manitobans, including families, seniors, flood victims, vulnerable Manitobans, and the list goes on. Why is this NDP government refusing to call the required referendum on the PST hike, Mr. Speaker? Why are they being so disrespectful to Manitobans? Hon. Stan Struthers (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, we're moving forward with our plan so that we can invest in the things that the people of Manitoba want. Mr.

Speaker, we have been up front with Manitobans and we've said in the budget very clearly that we're going to raise this revenue, this one point, 1 cent on the dollar, and we're going to dedicate that money to infrastructure that matters to Manitoba families: hospitals, schools, roads, bridges, daycares. Those are the priorities of Manitoba families. Those are the priorities of this government too. * (14:10) Mrs. Stefanson: Mr. Speaker, this PST hike on Manitoba families will have a negative impact to those families, to seniors, to flood victims, to vulnerable Manitobans, and the list goes on.

My question for the Premier and for this Minister of Finance: Will they do the right thing and reverse their decision to raise the PST or will they call for a re ferendum? Why are they being so disrespectful to Manitobans? Mr. Struthers : Well, Mr. Speaker, we didn't take this decision lightly, and Manitoba families work hard for the money that they earn. What this PST hike will do for flood victims, it'll build a channel out of Lake St. Martin–a channel that

2580 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 20, 2013 will provide protection for Manitoba families. It's an investment in our future. It's an investment in our economy. It'll put people to work and it'll protect Manitoba families. I think those are pretty good goals, Mr. Speaker. PST Increase Referendum Request Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, they almost–already made a big investment, too, in their political party. Rhineland Ford is a family business spanning three generations in Altona. Jim and Mia Dick are passionate about their community, and they're respected community leaders.

They don't lie to their customers. Their business, however, will be harmed by this 14 per cent increase in the PST. People will look elsewhere for new cars and service and repairs to their vehicles. Mr. Speaker, will the Premier show some respect, listen to the people of Manitoba and call a referendum? Hon. Stan Struthers (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, that same business that the member for Emerson talks about is de pendent on a good strong Manitoba economy.

It's dependent on a government that is willing to invest in the transportation networks that are, oh, so important to make sure that those products can get to market and that we can receive the raw materials in wh ich to manufacture the goods and services that we produce here in this province. Mr. Speaker, you don't have that kind of growth, you don't have that kind of move forward without the revenue to invest in roads and bridges, to invest in schools and hospit als and daycares. That's been our plan all along. We've been up front with Manitobans, and it'll work good for businesses. Mr. Graydon: Well, Mr.

Speaker, Jim and Mia Dick have worked to grow their successful business in Altona. They are respected in the community and they treat their customers with respect each and every day. They obey the law. The government, however, has dumped more regulations, more red tape and more taxes on them; now, in an ultimate sign of disrespect, have decided to raise the PST without calling the referendum. My question is simple: When will the Premier obey the law, call a referendum and show respect for Manitobans like Jim and Mia Dick? Mr. Struthers: Well, Mr.

Speaker, taking the small business tax from 8 per cent, which is where it was when the member from Fort Whyte was in Cabinet with Gary Filmon, we've taken that 8 per cent down to zero per cent. In my books that's a lot of respect. Assiniboia Downs Government Relations Mr. Cliff Cullen ( Spruce Woods ): This NDP government have shown no respect to the people of Assiniboia Downs. They have no respect for the 500 jobs at Assiniboia Downs, and they have no respect for the $50-million industry. Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance withheld funding that was to flow to the industry under The Pari-Mutuel Levy Act.

The minister chose to ignore the legislation and was subsequently ordered by the court to forward the funds to the industry. Why has this government been so disrespectful to the people of Assiniboia Downs? Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): Well, Mr. Speaker, there is some progress today. I notice the member opposite is not putting Rob Ford up as an example for this government or anyone to follow. I was set to say that he might've wanted to have another crack at that line of questioning as he seems on a bit of a high yesterday.

But, you know, I think we saw yesterday, when the member hit rock bottom in his questioning, that they really have nothing ne w in the way of questions, not only on this but many of the other issues. It must be recycling day in the member's constituency today, because, I'll repeat again, we'll continue to provide support to Assiniboia Downs. Yes, it's a lesser amount. We're put ting the $5 million into hospitals. It's going to do a lot for the west end of Winnipeg, Mr. Speaker.

By the way, Assiniboia Downs continues to operate and so does the Grace Hospital, which they said would be closing down a number of years ago. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Mr. Cullen: Well, Mr. Speaker, this is about treating people with respect. Mr. Speaker, the NDP are using backroom deals and bully tactics when they –comes to dealing with Assiniboia Downs. The core affidavits we have,

June 20, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2581 indicate the NDP have been working for years to take over operations of Assiniboia Downs. The NDP are tearing up contracts and they're changing legislation to protect themselves. At the same time, they're refusing to negotiate in good faith. Mr. Speaker, I ask the government: Why have they refused to act in good faith and been so disrespectful? Mr. Ashton : Well, Mr. Speaker, I –perhaps the member should do his homework in terms of the standard agreement in terms of VLTs. The standard agreement in this Province has a seven -day cancellation clause.

That's what every commercial site holder in the province has, Mr. Speaker –a seven-day cancellation clause. The agreement we had with Assiniboia Downs – we recognized that a seven -day cancellation clause would not be appropriate. In fact, notice was given to Assiniboia Downs of the fact that there would be reduction, Mr. Speaker, in the grant, as early as January of this year. It's now June. It's nearly been six months. We gave ample notice. We're bringing in legislation as we said we would in the budget, Mr. Speaker. There's nothing untoward.

The bottom line is, yes, Assiniboia Downs will now receive what other 'commercycles' receive. They will continue to receive the parimutuel levy, M r. Speaker, and the rest– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Municipal Amalgamation Victoria Beach Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): Mike Mason is a seasonal resident in the RM of Victoria Beach. He pays taxes to the municipality. He is able to vote in municipal elections. And yet the Minister of Local Government says he doesn't matter, he doesn't count. Why does the Minister of Local Government show such disrespect to Mike Mason? Hon.

Ron Lemieux (Minister of Local Government): Oh, that's ridiculous. You know, Mr. Speaker, 8.5 per cent increase or a $30- million increase over last year –that's respect; hundreds of millions of dollars on roads, on bridges in Manitoba –that's respect; fixing our hospitals, personal care homes, worki ng in all institutions across Manitoba–that's respect; and the fact that we consult and work with municipalities every–each and every day–that's respect. Mr. Pedersen: Mr. Speaker, the minister won't speak with respect to the fill–community of Plum Coulee that's up in the gallery today. Mr.

Speaker, the RM of Victoria Beach has 2,600 people who vote, pay property taxes, maintain services in their community, and all of this without running an annual deficit, unlike this government. The minister has told the RM of Victoria Beach to pick your dance partner. Well, Mike Mason's reply to that is, I pick mine and it's not the spenDP. What does the minister expect when he is so disrespectful to Mike Mason? Mr. Lemieux: Mr.

Speaker, since 1999, 261 police officers funded by the Province –that's respect; 30 additional police officers with federal funding– that's respect; police helicopter –that's respect; police cadets for safety–that's respect. Mr. Speaker, we've worked closely with municipalities from the day we were elected in 1999. We consult with municipalities; we work with Doug Dobrowolski with regard to the new Building Canada Fund that's going to start next spring. That's respect. Applied Behaviour Analysis Treatment Access to Treatment Mrs.

Leanne Ro wat (Riding Mountain): Over 80 Manitoba families are waiting for access to ABA therapy. Young Hannah Loeppky lives with autism. Hannah's mom has fought for her to have a place in a world that has not been designed for her, in a world where she has to work hard every day to accomplish the common, ordinary, everyday tasks we all take for granted. Mr. Speaker, will this Minister of Family Services show some respect to the 80 -plus families who were in the gallery last week, seeking this government's support for ABA therapy. Why will she not support them, Mr. Speaker? Hon.

Jennifer Howard (Minister of Family Services and Labour): I thank the member for the question, and I thank her for putting on the record the incredible efforts that parents of children with disabilities make to help their kids have the best life possible. They advocate for those children tirelessly. I'm always reminded of what one parent said, that the experience of having a child with a disability

2582 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 20, 2013 means that every day you pray that you live one day longer than your kid, so that you can make sure that they have a good life. * (14:20) I will say, on the subject of ABA therapy, we have invested tremendous amounts into that. We are one of the most generous jurisdictions in the country. We do know that there's more work to do, and we continue to work with educators and clinicians and families about how we can contin ue to make sure we're investing in those services. Mrs.

Rowat: Well, the Minister of Family Services claims that funding for autism outreach workers will address the wait-list, but we know that these workers do not provide ABA therapy for children and autism. She misled Manitoba families. The minister also has said that there has been difficulty assessing –or accessing trained therapists when, in fact, St. Amant Centre has identified four ABA therapists who are ready to 'roove' –move to Manitoba. Again, misleading Manitoba families.

These are just two examples, and I want to know: Will this minister today take the $250,000 in vote tax and redirect it to families with autism? I think that would be a respectful thing to do, don't you, Mr. Speaker? Ms. Howard: I'm looking forward to the day when we can have a broader discussion about autism therapy and treatment. I know that ABA is a very important treatment for many, many families. Not all families choose that kind of treatment.

Many other families choose different kinds of treatment for their children who are on the autism spectrum and, certainly, having in place those workers who provide autism treatment, who provide supports to families who live outside the city, that was a commitment that we made and that's a commitment that we've fulfilled. And I think it's very important that families outside the city also have access to autism treatment. There isn't only one kind of treatment available for autism and there isn't only kind of treatment that families choose.

We invest $30 million a year in supports for children with autism, adults with autism and their families through the family services system, through the education system, through the health- care system. Those are dollars that are going to work for those families, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Honourable minister's time has expired. Spending Reduction Government Commitment Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, we're now in the fourth day of this emergency sitting, and it's even more apparent that the NDP government has created this emergency because it can't manage either the P rovince or itself.

The NDP government has created this crisis in the firs t place by overspending their expenditure budgets for the last 13 years, and they continued to overspend last year by a hundred and thirty million. Given the financial crisis that caused the need to force the projected PST increase, the proposed one, I ask the Minister of Finance (Mr. Struthers): Will he this year commit to reducing this year's core government expenditures to or below his budget of twelve billion, sixty -eight hundred–sixty -eight million, eight hundred and eighty -eight and three thousand dollars? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, the commitment of the government is to protect things that matter for Manitobans: core services and health care, education investments, services to children and families, strategic investments in infrastructure, to do it while retaining one of the lowest per capita costs for government services in the country and to do it while retaining the affordability advantage that is so important to the quality of life in Manitoba. It's a balanced approach, Mr.

Speaker, that wants to protect families from floods, ensure children get education, seniors get health care and that people are working and have opportunities to have a future in this province which is part of our skills agenda. That's the commitment we make to Manitobans. No-Net-Loss-of-Wetlands Policy Government Timeline Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, speaking of emergencies, in 2003 the NDP government said that they would have Lake Winnipeg well on its way to being cleaned up in two to three years.

Instead, 10 years later we've an emergency on Lake Winnipeg because it's deteriorated and it is now the most threatened lake on the planet. For 13 years and nine months the government's position has focused on extensive drainage, taking water off the land and this 'extrantisif' drainage has occurred.

June 20, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2583 I was pleased to hear this morning at the Keeping Water on the Land conference that the government is going to change direction and implement a no-net-loss-of-wetlands policy. Mr. Speaker, I ask the Premier: When will the no-net-loss-of-wetlands policy be implemented? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, for several years now, we've had a riparian tax credit in place which protects those forests along the edges of waterways, provides suppor t to farmers that take them out of productive use and gives them an income with respect to that.

We've had alternative land use planning which provide –demonstrations which provide support to producers to protect the landscape. We've worked closely with Ducks Unlimited and the International Institute for Sustainable Development with respect to cattails projects. And, yes, Mr. Speaker, there is more that can be done to retain water on the land, which is why we've supported the Nature Conservancy in taking land and putting it aside for the productive use of restoring the soil, keeping the water on the land, providing the native vegetation that's found there.

These are all many things that we've done in the past, and we'll find ways to do even more in the future to protect Lake Winnipeg. Assiniboine River Basin Government Initiatives Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Conservation and Water Stewardship (Mr. Mackintosh) this morning emphasized that his focus was going to be on the Red River Valley.

Now, efforts on the Red River Valley are certainly needed, but the large flood emergency in 2011 occurred primarily along the Assiniboine River, and it was emphasized after the minister left the conference that urgent and major attention to the Assiniboine River basin is needed to decrease the likelihood and extent of future flood emergencies on the Assiniboine River, Lake Manitoba and Lake Winnipeg –and Lake St. Martin. I ask the Minister of Conservation and Water Stewardship: What specif ic actions will he take to ensure that the Assiniboine River basin gets the urgent attention that it needs? Hon.

Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, this is one of the major reasons we're bringing forward the 10-year building and renewa l program in Ma nitoba, because we do –and the member from River Heights is correct–we do have to invest in our infrastructure that will protect the people from Brandon all the way through the Assiniboine valley, from Portage la Prairie to Winnipeg, up through Lake Manitoba and Lake St. Martin –we need to invest in the kind of infrastructure that'll allow them the same safety that we provided to the city of Winnipeg and the people in the Red River Valley.

And that will include at looking at how we can retain water on the l and and not have it run off too rapidly to exacerbate flooding conditions. That is part of the strategy, as is the channel on Lake St. Martin, as is the new channel out of Lake Manitoba into Lake St. Martin, as is strengthening the dike system all along th e Assiniboine River, which will keep water in the river but also out of the river. Smaller Class Size Initiative New and Expanded Classrooms Mr. Drew Caldwell (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, I'm very proud to be part of a government that has invested in education at historic levels.

Upon our election, we restored collective bargaining rights for teachers and began to address the billion- dollar infrastructure deficit left to us by members opposite. In Brandon, we invested in the Brandon School Division and in transforming our post -secondary environment with investments in Brandon University and Assiniboine Community College. Today, Mr. Speaker, I was in Brandon with the Minister of Education (Ms. Allan) making our most recent investment in educational excell ence in this province, and I'd ask the minister to inform the House of our work this morning. Hon.

Nancy Allan (Minister of Education): Well, Mr. Speaker, I was pleased to be at Meadows School this morning in Brandon to announce our latest investment in o ur public schools in the province of Manitoba. We announced that we would be investing over $4 million in Brandon to reduce class sizes. We will be building two new classrooms at Meadows, two new classrooms at Waverly school, and we will be building a gymnasium at George Fitton School and refurbishing the gymnasium at George Fitton School for two new classrooms.

And this is all because we understand how important it is for our youngest learners to have one-on-one time with teachers. And that is because we respect teachers. Yes.

2584 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 20, 2013 Mr. Speaker: The honourable minister's time has expired. Lake Manitoba Outlet Construction Mr. Stuart Briese (Agassiz): Mr. Speaker, the Premier recently said, and I quote: One of the great legacies of any premier in this province was the building of the floodway, including the diversion channel. End quote. Mr. Speaker, one of the great tragedies under the watch of this P remier was overwhelming that diversion in Lake Manitoba in 2011, and then breaking his promises to the flood victims.

I ask: Why is the Premier showing no respect for the Lake Manitoba flood victims? Why do these victims have to wait seven years for a new outlet out of Lake Manitoba? * (14:30) Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the inlet and outlet in Lake Manitoba were built during a time when we had a premier that wanted to build flood protection and we've–respect that tradition and followed up on it. But in 1978, under the Conservative government, another outlet could have been bid– built out of Lake Manitoba into Lake St.

Martin, and the government of the day turned that down at a time that the estimate of the cost was a million–17 to 18 million dollars, and they refused to do that. The difference today is we have followed up with an independent review of the 2011 flood, worst ever seen in the Assiniboine valley, and we have committed $250 million for flood protection for the people of Lake Manitoba and the people of Lake St. Martin, and the member opposite asking the question, and his entire bench with him, a ll his colleagues, have voted against that. Mr. Briese: Mr.

Speaker, 14 per cent increase in the provincial sales tax, $275 million per year supposedly for flood mitigation. Why does this NDP government continue to show such a lack of respect for the La ke Manitoba flood victims? Why are they being forced to live in fear for another seven years? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker in the '11 flood, we spent $1.25 billion to deal with the issues arising out of that flood, including very significant compensation programs. The disaster financial assistance guidelines were increased to the highest level ever seen in the province of Manitoba.

Additional programs were put in place for producers. Additional programs were put in place funded a hundred per cent by the peopl e of Manitoba through the provincial budget. The federal government didn't want to participate in those programs. We went ahead with it anyway. Members opposite voted against it, and now they want to spend money that they won't support in the budget. That is the definition of hypocrisy. PST Increase Request to Withdraw Mr. Ian Wishart (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker, earlier today, Mr.

Dave Mouland, a senior on fixed income and a volunteer at Winnipeg Harvest, spoke at the rally for respect. He spoke about the impact on himself and others. He sees every day the impact this government's agenda to increase taxes has. Those on limited and fixed incomes feel the impact of every penny in tax increases, and they deserve to be treated with more respect. Mr. Spe aker, will this government cease and desist in their plan to increase the PST? Hon. Peter Bjornson (Minister of Entrepreneur - ship, Training and Trade): I can tell you something that we will not do.

We will not cut income assistance three times like members opposite did, Mr. Speaker, $150 per month. They cut $40 in 1993, $14 again in 1994, $95.60 in 1996, an 18 per cent cut in a single year. And, of course, we could also talk about the child benefit and how they clawed that back, and we gave it back, $48 million back in the pockets of those who need it the most. That's respect for people on fixed incomes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Wishart: Mr. Speaker, if they were really showing respect, they would have increased the housing allowance.

Those on fixed income feel the increase–feel the impact of every increase in costs. This government's tax increase is causing a substantial increase in costs to those on limited and fixed incomes. This government needs to rethink its priorities and stop the tax increase that punished those on limited and fixed incomes. Mr. Speaker, will they commit today to reversing their plan to increase the PST on the 1st of July and show Manitobans the respect they deserve?

June 20, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2585 Mr. Bjornson : Well, Mr. Speaker, it's a little rich when they never had the housing allowance. Low-income families living in private market rentals receive RentAid of $2,760 per year, up from $2,520 a year, and we have come to the table yet again with more improvements to RentAid, an additional $20 a month for RentAid. We are investing in education, which is the great equalizer. We are investing in training, which is the great equalizer.

We are providing wraparound services for people on employment income assistance so they can get back into the workforce because we have a dynamic economy here that has weathered the economic storm very well, and we want them to participate in the economy like they do, Mr. Speaker, and it's our investments in not only housing but– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Bill 6 Amendment Request Mr.

Cameron Friesen (Morden -Winkler): All across Manitoba, private, faith -based and community-based personal care homes have a record of good will, hard work and success in providing direct care to thousands of individuals each day , but the unproclaimed provisions in Bill 6 disrespect these groups and undermine that goodwill and success by requiring RHA control over the hiring process of senior managers of these facilities. Stakeholder groups working in co- operation have attempted to sit down with this minister and explain that no jurisdiction in Canada has requirements like this.

I know the minister will be quick to get up and paint everyone with the same brush today, but will she, instead, agree to respectfully listen to these groups and amend her legislation and accommodate their concerns? Hon. T heresa Oswald (Minister of Health): Yes, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the member for the question because he well knows that faith -based institutions have been providing excellent health care to all Manitobans for years and years and years, and we want this to continue well into the future.

And to answer his question, I can tell him that when members asked us to–members of the faith-based community asked us to pause and not proclaim all c omponents of the law, we did exactly that. Since then there has been a preconsultation; there have been a number of discussions and correspondences, ideas brought forward. I can say to the member that certainly we have seen in other jurisdictions in Canada , and regrettably in a few circumstances here in Manitoba, where there have been some liberties taken by some individuals concerning payment to CEOs and so forth. We're investigating and rectifying– Mr.

Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. Keeyask Community Centre Project Update Mr. Ron Schuler ( St. Paul ): Mr. Speaker, TCN First Nation families and Hydro ratepayers would like to ask the NDP member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak) for some respect. Number 1: How is it that $125,000 was spent on furniture for a cultural centre that doesn't exist? And No. 2: Where exactly might that furniture be? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act ): Mr.

Speaker, the member's fellow Tea Party member for the Taxpayers Federation laid out a press release yesterday that attacked the– an audit that the federal government is satisfied with, an audit that Hydro said they're satisfied with, but the member chooses to attack the First Nations, and the Leader of the Opposition says that we shouldn't be working with the First Nations in the North. That's not respect. To quote another song of Aretha Franklin, that's a chain of fools. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

I understand that, as I've expressed before in this House, that feelings can run very high on some topics and some issues and I respect that. That's all, in fact, why we come here to represent the business of the people of Manitoba, but I also want to ensure that this is a respectful workplace. And I often said that here, and I'm asking all honourable members here, including the honourable Minister of Innovation, Energy and Mines, to please pick and choose our words very carefully in here. I want to ensure that we have a respectful wor kplace.

I don’t want–it's my responsibility to ensure the decorum and the dignity of this House and I want to make sure that I do that job to the best of my ability as well.

2586 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 20, 2013 Flood Evacuees Return to Community Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): That is a total lack of respect for every member in this House, and I'd like the member to stand and apologize. Mr. Speaker, two years, 2,000 people still out of their homes. It's time for them to get back to their homes. Will the minister stand up today and tell us w hat their plan is to put those 2,000 people back in their homes? Show some respect. Two years; too long. Hon.

Steve Ashton (Minister responsible for Emergency Measures ): I remind the member opposite that what we're dealing with, Lake St. Martin, is the legacy of decades of those communities being at risk in terms of flooding, significant brown water, and, in fact, I'm very proud that we, as a government, during the flood, we took action by –in a matter of months, building the emergency channel that brought down the level of those–of that lake by three feet, brought it down below flood level. What we've been doing–and I credit our Minister of Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr.

Robinson) who's been working with the federal government to come up with perma nent solutions so that those people have homes they can go back to that aren't subject to flooding. That is respect for First Nations. * (14:40) Green Team Projects Funding Mr. Dennis Smook (La Verendrye) : The Minister of Children and Youth Opportunities has stopped funding new Green Team projects, projects that employ youth to help pay for their school tuition and living costs. Mr.

Speaker, this NDP minister is willing to take 5,000 vote-tax dollars to pay for his political activity but won't create any opportunities for youth in this province. Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Minister of youth–Children and Youth Opportunities: Why is he disrespecting the youth of this province by cutting summer jobs? Hon. Kevin Chief (Minister of Children and Youth Opportunities ): I've actually answered this question, pretty much daily. I did it for the member from Emerson yesterday, and here's what I'll tell – here's what I'll say again, and I'm willing to say it.

The Green Team program's an –a popular, effective program, envy of other provinces. We continue to invest. This year alone, we're investing and touching over 500 organizations for Green Team. It's going to create over 1,000 jobs for young people, one program. They're going to take more money home this summer than they ever have in the past. And, in the last 10 years, it has created over 15,000 jobs, one program for The Green Team. Hasn't been cut, it hasn't been reduced, and you can see all these young– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The member's time– minister's time has expired.

Government Priorities Respect for Democracy Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, we've seen over the last few months how this government utterly disrespects Manitobans. They disrespect flood victims. They disrespect Manitobans who deserve a referendum. They disrespect Manitobans by not telling them the truth in the 2000 election campaign. And who are these Manitobans? W ell, they're young people. They're seniors. They're leaders. They're new Canadians. They're business people. They're entrepreneurs. But most importantly, they are Manitobans.

Why won't you do, like we are as Manitoba Progressive Conservatives, say you'll stand with Manitobans and show them some respect, Mr. Speaker? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, because we respect all Manitobans, that's exactly why we brought in Bill 18, the antibullying bill, in this province. And that's exactly why we've strengthened the Human Rights Code. And that's exactly why we've created more jobs, in partnership with communities and businesses, than have ever existed in the province of Manitoba.

And because we know Manitoban is a growing economy with more people coming to live here, more people staying here, in direct contrast to the '90s, when the economy was not growing, people were leaving and no investments were made, we will continue to partner with Manitobans to grow a strong economy for young people and look after our seniors and have respect for diversity. That's what we'll do in Manitoba.

June 20, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2587 Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Rally for Respect Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): Today, hundreds of Manitobans gathered once again on the steps of the Manitoba Legislature to protest this NDP government's lack of respect for Manitobans. Mr. Speaker, Gary Mercier [phonetic] was there representing Manitoba Families for Effective Autism Treatment. He spoke of the NDP's disrespectful treatment of families facing lengthy wait times for treatment for their children. Mr.

Speaker, Kevin Yuill was there representing flood victims who had been disrespected by this NDP government. He spoke of t he NDP's broken promise for funding of flood victims. Mr. Speaker, David Mouland was there from Winnipeg Harvest. He spoke of the negative impact that a PST hike will have on the most vulnerable people in our society and how disrespectful this government is to those Manitobans. Mike Mason was there from Victoria Beach. He shared his concern for the NDP government's disrespectful behaviour towards municipalities with the introduction of Bill 33.

Taxpayers and families were there to show their disapproval of this government's disrespectful behaviour. They told us they want a say in this NDP PST tax hike. It's their right, but the NDP wants to take that right away. Mr. Speaker, hundreds of other Manitobans more, each with their own personal story. I wan t to take this opportunity to thank all the people who attended today's rally and spoke out about the disrespectful behaviour of this government. I hope members opposite finally listen to Manitobans and reverse their decision to increase the PST. But, Mr.

Speaker, they haven't listened for 13 years, so why would they start now? National Aboriginal Day Mr. Frank Whitehead (The Pas): Mr. Speaker, tomorrow, June 21st, marks an important day for all people throughout this land, National Aboriginal Day. This is a time of celebration and a time of reflection, of coming together to remember our history and look to our future. Early tomorr ow morning, when we attend sunrise ceremonies like the one in Opaskwayak Cree Nation, we will gather and give thanks for the blessings that we receive every day.

We will do our part to make use of the longest day in the year to help and support each other because that is our way. When we support each other, it gives our communities the strength needed to grow and flourish. Tomorrow is an exciting day in OCN. In addition to the sunrise ceremony, three members of our community, Marie Jebb, Norman Glen Ross a nd James Smith will be presented with the Queen's Diamond Jubilee Medals in recognition for the contribution they are making to the growth and development of their community and the region. In the evening we will have our community graduation feast.

Togeth er, we will share in the celebration of our students' graduation and encourage all children and youth to continue contributing to the happiness and growth of the community. National Aboriginal Day provides an opportunity to acknowledge our rich First Nati ons, Metis and Inuit heritage in Manitoba. Although this is a time of celebration, we must also use this time to reflect on the work that needs to be done to improve the lives of Aboriginal people throughout this province and this country. Together we can make improvements.

We are all treaty people and together on June 21, and every day of the year, Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal people are invited to share in the culture and history of this land we call home. I encourage all members of the Legislative Ass embly to participate in some of the many activities that are taking place throughout our province tomorrow and this weekend. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Rally for Respect Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): Mr. Speaker, Manitobans deserve respect. In fact, this af ternoon, we had a number of people outside the building that didn't get the respect that Manitobans deserve.

We saw the government first -hand ignore flood victims time and time again. The Minister of Finance (Mr. Struthers) went out two years ago, made commitments of fair and fast compensation. We had many people there outside in the rally, saying this minister and this government has not owned up to their commitments. We had people

2588 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 20, 2013 there in regards to the PST, saying, we want a voice; we want the respect of the government, to be able to say, we have a choice. We want to be able to have a referendum. We want our voice heard. What we've heard very clearly that this government is arrogant enough to believe that they can do what they want, when they want and how they want. It's not true, Mr. Speaker. The people are going to fight back. They're going to make sure their voices is heard.

We saw also this government brought in Bill 33, a bill to force municipalities to be amalgamated without any consultation. T hey said if they were not going to do it on their own, then the government would come in and do it. They would take their marching marker and they would go and they would highlight where–who was going to go. Again, lack of respect. We also bill–saw Bill 4 3 brought in by that minister of lotteries and liquor, and we saw there very clearly they have no respect for the Assiniboia Downs.

What they want to do is take the stroke of their marker and get rid of 550 jobs, $50 million worth of employment and revenue for the province of Manitoba. We saw Bill 47, the BITSA bill. This is their get-out-of-the-jail card –free, for the Minister of Finance (Mr. Struthers). He thinks he can just take and rip up any agreement that he wants without any consultation. It's disrespectful. It's unacceptable. We challenge the government. Do the right thing. Call a referendum. Let's get rid of this nonsense once and for all and respect Manitobans. South Osborne Arts Group Spring Open Studio Tour Mr.

James Allum (Fort Garry -Riverview): Mr. Speaker, the south Osborne in Fort Garry -Riverview is unique, vibrant community full of strong schools, incredible community clubs, fabulous restaurants, wonderful recreational amenities and very progressive residents who work extraordinarily hard to make our neighbourhood strong, safe and sustainable.

This past Mother's Day, our beautiful neighbourhood was on display, as were the artistic skills, abilities and sensibilities of several of our residents when the South Osborne Arts Group celebrated th e long -awaited coming of spring by holding its second spring open studio tour. Ten brilliant local artists in the south Osborne area opened their workspaces, giving area residents and visitors alike an opportunity to see a working artist studio and chat about their work. * (14:50) The weekend was a great success.

Hundreds of people came out to visit the studios, view incredible art work and learn about pottery, photography, paintings, sculpture, drawing, glasswork, jewellery, and much, much more. My wife, Susan, and I had the chance to bike through the neighbourhood to visit many of the home studios, and we were delighted by the warm reception we received and their incredible works of arts we saw. Mr. Speaker, neighbourhoods thrive when local residents a re dedicated to making it a vital lively community.

I want to thank the South Osborne Arts Group, Colleen Chamberlin, Steve Jorgenson, Tom Roberts, Lesly Dawyduk, Joan Kakoske, Dave Maddocks, Judy Jennings, Helen Lyons, Pam Rayner-Moore and Reymond Pagé for bringing the arts to life in our neighbourhood and for contributing to the vitality of the south Osborne community. Thank you. Pingalwara Hospice (India) Mr. Matt Wiebe (Concordia): Mr. Speaker, earlier this year I was fortunate to join the Premier (Mr. Selinger) and the members for Radisson and The Maples on a trade mission to India. There, we had the opportunity to visit the Pingalwara hospice in Amritsar.

Pingalwara is an incredible charitable organization that cares for some of the most disadvantaged people in India. Located in Amritsar, this institution was founded in 1947 by one man, Bhagat Puran Singh, to support the poor, elderly and sick. Bhagat Puran Singh began his social and humanitarian activities as a teenager in 1924. Until his passing, he was dedicated to tending to those who could not care for themselves and inspired others to follow suit. Today Pingalwara continues to provide essential services to those in need. When we arrived at Pingalwara, we were received by President Dr.

Inderjit Kaur, Administrator Colonel Darshan Singh Bawa and many others. They showed us their facilities and explained the history and philosophy of Bhagat Puran Singh and the Pingalwara Society.

June 20, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2589 Pingalwara has facilities for over a thousand patients who are provided housing, food, medical care, vocational training and education. Trained nurses, doctors, pharmacists and lab technicians help many patients to make full recoveries and reunite them with their families. The free services that Pingalwara offers are made possibly sole –possible solely through the donations of people across India and the world.

Manitobans value the work of Pingalwara, and during our visit the Premier announced a $50,000 donation to Pingalwara through the Manitoba Council for International Co-operation and the Manitoba matching grant funding program. Gurdwaras throughout Canada also raise funds and keep donation boxes. With us today we have guests from two of these gurdwaras in my neighbourhood, Khalsa Diwan Society and Guru Nanak Darbar, as well as other gurdwaras in Winnipeg. Thank you for your dedication to this important work. Pingalwara operates on the belief that all things are possible through love and compassi on.

The hospice exemplifies the philosophy of Bhagat Puran Singh that: a nation's strength is not found in its treasury statement. It lies instead in the character of its people, in their willingness to sacrifice leisure, comfort and a share of their talents for the welfare of their nation. As such, I declare Pingalwara an inspiration to Manitoba, India and to communities across the world. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Grievances. No grievances– ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon.

Jennifer Howard (Government House Leader): I wonder if you'd canvass the House to see if there's leave for a brief recess to allow for House leaders to confer on House business. I would ask for 20 minutes. Mr. Speaker: Is there leave o f the House to allow for a brief recess of up to 20 minutes, to allow the House leaders to confer on House business? [Agreed] We will now recess for 20 minutes and we'll ring the bells for one minute to remind members to return to the Chamber. The House recessed at 2:54 p.m. ____________ The House resumed at 3:21 p.m. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Call the House back into session.

Ms. Howard : Yes, would you resume debate on Bill 20, please. DEBATE ON SECOND READINGS Mr. Speaker: Now resume debate on Bill 20, The Manitoba Building and Renewal Funding and Fiscal Management Act (Various Acts Amended), standing in the name of the honourable member for Steinbach who has unlimited time. Bill 20–The Manitoba Building and Renewal Funding and Fiscal Management Act (Various Acts Amended) Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr.

Speaker, pleasure to again continue the debate on Bill 20, and yesterday, when I was speaking on the bill, there was a number of areas that I was able to cover in the time that I had, including the issue of prebudget consultations and the reason that we brought forward a reasoned amendment, and the reason that we believed that this government wasn't transparent, wasn't fully transparent on the issue of the PST tax increase. I talked a bit about the hoist motion, Mr. Speaker, that we brought forward and how, in fact, the government had not accepted the offer.

And I thought it was a generous offer, to allow them to consider for six more months the issue of the PST increase. I talked about the many people who had signed up for committee and the concern that we had that the government would not respect them by driving them through the night. And you know, I've been asking questions about that for more than a month, about my concern, not just on this bill but on other bills before this House, that members of the public would be forced to sit through the night. As the rules allow, I understand that, Mr.

Speaker, on the third night of sitting, that the government can, essentially, with the majorit y of their committee, force people through the night and, ultimately, in a way, have closure on that committee. And I found that to be disrespectful, and that was one of the concerns that I raised. And we had,

2590 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 20, 2013 unfortunately, some public negotiations around that issue, but in some ways I think it's also helpful when you bring some of these issues and you discuss them in the public because it often results in people understanding the political process better. And I think all of us want that. All of us want to see a better understanding. But I continue to have the concern about Manitobans who've signed up to present to Bill 20 and other bills, Mr. Speaker, that they'll be forced to go through the night, that they'll be forced to sit through the night.

And it's disrespectful. And we had a bit of a theme going this morning, or this question period, about respect and about how it's important to respect Manitobans. And I've always found it's disrespectful to have Manitobans come and asked to present at 3 in the morning or 4 in the morning. And I understand this is an entirely a partisan issue. I will say, Mr. Speaker, that at different times under different governments, they –maybe the situations were less than ideal on different committees.

And it's certainly been the case, I know, with the bill regarding the pork moratorium–was less than ideal here, as well, with this government. It's not how Manitobans should have been treated. We saw people presenting through the night. Government members were hardly awake. It' s probably difficult for all members to stay awake during that time. And members of the public wondered why it was that they were there presenting at that hour to a committee that was hardly awake, that was hardly attentive at that particular time. And it showed disrespect.

And I know the previous speaker and others, when we had discussions around that particular debate on that particular bill and how committees were run, that all of us, I think, agreed that it was not ideal. That it wasn't done well and it's one of the reasons that we proposed to this government on this bill and other bills that have drawn significant interest in the Legislature here, that we have a structured system.

And I would like to see that sort of as a go-forward thing, but, certainly, in the interim that we have a structured system so that when people are coming, it's not just for two nights 'til midnight and then the third night they go through the night and ram through 'til 9 or 10 in the morning. That's not respectful. There are better ways, I'm sure, to do it in the modern world, in a world that we rely on technology for everything. I look around and I see technology, and yet we still have a system in our committee system where people are going through the night. Now, I underst and, Mr.

Speaker, and the government has indicated that, well, this system is a better system than they have in many legislatures, that it's –at least people can come, and I don't disagree with that. I think it's important that people have the opportunity, the average citizens, not just experts, because some of the best advice that I've ever gotten both personally and professionally are for people who are not experts. And so I think it's important that we have that system, and I don't disagree with the government that it's important. But it diminishes the system when we go through the night.

It diminishes the system when you say to people, we want to hear from you, but we want to hear from you at a time that isn't respectful. We want to hear from you at a time that isn't appropriate. That is concerning and I don't think it should just be concerning to me or to opposition members. It should be concerning to all Manitobans. All Manitobans should be concerned about that and all members because collectively we hav e an interest in how this committee system works. So I want to emphasize it's one of the reasons right from the beginning of this debate we put a high priority on that.

We put a high priority, saying this bill shouldn’t proceed to committee or other bill s shouldn't proceed to committee that have a high number of presenters until there is some agreement in terms of how those committees will be run and how those committees will be operated. It was important to us to see that and, ultimately, we still await a resolution on that about whether we can ensure that there is a committee system that will be run appropriately. We know, ultimately, at some point that these bills will go to committee. We understand that, Mr. Speaker. But they have to go in an appropriate way.

They have to go in a fashion that is respectful for Manitobans. And on Bill 20 in particular, it was the Premier (Mr. Selinger), of course, himself, who invited Manitobans, invited them to come and sign up. Now, he may have felt that because he t ook away the referendum that he was somewhat obligated, that it was somewhat beholden upon him to call for the committee and to ask people to come and present at that committee. I don't know all of his motivations in particular about why he decided to put out the plea for people to sign up for committee. But at the time that he did that he should've known.

He should've understood that, in fact, this is something that should

June 20, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2591 be done in a respectful way, that makes sense for Manitobans, that makes sense for t hose people who are at the committee. And that continues to be a high priority for this caucus, not just on this bill or other bills that are before the House today, but a high priority for the future for bills that might come forward at a different time for committee. So I certainly hope that the government will listen to that, will take action on those recommendations because we think it's important. We think it's very important.

Now, I had other discussions yesterday in my comments regarding the hoist motion that was brought forward to the Legislature that the government ultimately defeated –and, I think, unwisely–about how we, in fact, were more than willing to allow them the time, a time out, to hit the pause button, to go and confer with Manitobans, whether that would be Manitobans within their own community, whether that'd be Manitobans at festivals in different communities that they were not in, that they don't represent. But, ultimately, to talk to Manitobans because that's what the opportunity would've allowed them to do.

It would've allowed them–it's not as good as a referendum, as I mentioned yesterday, but it's better than what they were offering. It would certainly give them an opportunity to speak to Manitobans more directly. * (15:30) I also had the opportunity yesterday, Mr. Speaker, and I'll move on to a more fresh material because I know you're waiting for that, but I want to review for members who maybe forgot or weren't able to hear the comments yesterday, some of that, and I have the opportunity –[interjection]–and the member for Arthur -Virden (Mr. Maguire) mentions that sometimes repetition is good.

I know there's issues around repetition within our rules but there is value in repetition in that it often reinforces a point that it ensure s that people who maybe didn't see the selling point the first time understand that the second time that it is of value. But I wanted to simply show a couple of things. I spoke yesterday about the government's concern or problem about not admitting that t hey've made a mistake on Bill 20 and had the opportunity to read a few articles–and I've got a couple more I want to reference, Mr.

Speaker –about how it's important that government is willing and individuals are willing to admit when they've made a mistake. And I had the opportunity to reference a couple of articles about how it is that people can become better at admitting mistakes. Now the thesis of one of the articles was, of course, that people benefit by admitting from mistakes. Sometimes there's a feeling, and I think it's often the case for a government that they worry that if they admit a mistake that it's going to be looked at poorly or looked at negatively by the public and so there's a reluctance.

There's a reluctance by government members to admit those mistakes. The theory that was put forward by other authors, Mr. Speaker, on the whole issue of admitting mistakes is that, in fact, it's not always a bad thing. Often those who are affected by the mistake will give you credit when you admit that mistake. They will hide you –hold you in higher esteem than if you don't admit the mistake. But there were a couple of things that needed to happen first before a person is ready to admit their mistake, and one of them was that they had to admit the mistake first to themselves.

And I think that is one of the problems the Premier (Mr. Selinger) has, that he's not willing to admit to himself that this is a mistake, and it's the first hurdle that needs to be overcome. It's the first thing that the government nee ds to find a way through, that you have to find a way to admit your mistake to yourself and then you can admit that mistake to others. The second point was, Mr. Speaker, that –to admit your fault to the person who was affected.

This is almost confessional, in a way, I suppose, but you have to go out and tell the people who are impacted by your mistake that, in fact, it was a mistake, that it was wrong. And I do think that that is one of the challenges that this government has. They don't want to go to peopl e and to admit that they've made a mistake. They've become, I think, in the time that they've been in government, they've become arrogant. They've become disrespectful to Manitobans. They don't share the same concern for Manitobans than maybe they once purported to do at an earlier time when they were in government.

I remember the former premier, now the ambassador for Canada in the United States in Washington, talking about how they were going to be a government for all the people and perhaps he entered that with the best intentions, Mr. Speaker. I know it's a campaign slogan but perhaps there were stronger intentions at that time by Mr. Doer, but that's not what it's evolved to. It's not what it's evolved to. It's become a government that has very narrow interests, that is not governing for the best

2592 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 20, 2013 interests of all Manitobans, who refuses to govern for the best interests of all Manitobans, and that's part of the reason I think that they are not willing to admit the mistake on Bill 20. They are not willin g to admit to Manitobans that they made that mistake, and clearly in the

article that I referenced yesterday, that is one of the key and critical points that has to happen first. Now the–I didn't get a chance to get to this point yesterday, Mr. Speaker, s o this is a new point that I know you'll be waiting for. In the article, Mr. Speaker, by E.C. LaMeaux, it also indicates that, if you're going to admit a mistake, that you had to say you were sorry and ask for forgiveness. It's an actual expression. It's not enough just to admit the mistake to yourself or to admit the mistake to other people, but you have to actually ask for forgiveness. I will read the quote in the article, and the

article is entitled " Becoming better at admitting mistakes", by E.C. LaMeaux. So the third step, where it says, say you are sorry and ask for forgiveness, it says, apologizing is only half of the equation. It is the part that you control. By asking for forgiveness, you're asking the person who was wronged to be an active part of the restoration process. So let me just read that again: Apologizing is only half of the equation. It is the part that you control. By asking for forgiveness, you are inviting the person who was wronged to be an active part of the ration–or the relation–or restoration process.

And so this is something, I think, that the Minister of Finance (Mr. Struthers) and the Premier (Mr. Selinger) should take to heart when they're thinking about Bill 20, Mr. Speaker, that it's not enough to admit the mistake to yours elf, and they haven't sort of gotten past that hurdle, that initial step. It's not enough to admit the fault to the person, to the public, to Manitobans about Bill 20, but they would have to go one step further and ask for forgiveness. And I do think that that, in fact, is important, to ask for forgiveness.

And I hope that the government, as they think about this bill and the problems that they've gotten themselves into with this bill, will consider asking for forgiveness of Manitobans. And I think that the y would find that Manitobans are actually very willing to forgive. They are willing to acknowledge when somebody has made a mistake and look for

an act of forgiveness. When they see that true contrition, and I don't know that they always see that –I don't know that they always see that act of contrition from the government. Now, the other issue that I raised yesterday, and it was from the

article , The power of admitting mistakes, by Bob Whipple. He indicated that there are a few situations where the admission of a mistake would not produce higher trust. And I think that this is one of the barriers in terms of why the government isn't willing to admit that they've made a mistake.

One of the issues is if the blunder was out of sheer stupidity then you might not get higher trust by admitting your mistake, or if it was the third time that the leader had done essentially the same thing that you might not, in fact, get higher trust by admitting the mistake, or if the leader is prone to making mistakes due to shooting before aiming, or if the leader has simply failed to get information that he or she should have had, or if the leader was appeasing higher-ups inappropriately. And those are the barriers, I think, Mr. Speaker, that the government faces when it comes to admitting a mistake.

It's one of the things that stops them from acknowledging that what they were –are doing on Bill 20 is simply wrong, both by increasing the provincial sales tax from 7 to 8 per cent, but going beyond that by taking away the referendum. I think that they should acknowledge that this is a mistake, but that those are the barriers they face, because it's not the first time that they've done this. It's not the first time that they've said something to Manitobans and then didn't follow through. And so, in fact, they may not receive higher esteem as the result of this.

It is not likely that Manitobans would hold them in greater trust because they've done it so often to Manitobans that it wouldn't necessarily seem like something that they've lea rned from. It might actually seem to them that it's a pattern, that it's repeat behaviour. In a different context, we might say they were repeat offenders, that they continue to do the same thing over and over, and the term repeat offenders might be partic ularly sensitive for the Minister of Finance and member for Assiniboia (Mr. Rondeau) these days because it has legal connotations that they might at some point face down the road.

Now, there is another

article that I didn't get the chance to reference yes terday. It's by Amy Rees Anderson, a fairly recent article, it was published on May 7th of this year, Mr. Speaker. I think it was published in The Globe and Mail, and I want to give due credit to the publishing authorities who published this

article and th e author who penned it. Amy Rees Anderson wrote an

article that said: Admitting you were wrong doesn't make you weak–

June 20, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2593 it makes you awesome. That is what the

article says: doesn't make you weak. * (15:40) And I do hope that the member for Kildonan (Mr. Cho miak) is paying especial attention because we're all still waiting for that apology that he offered on taking the Jets tickets, Mr. Speaker, from the Crown corporation. It was actually a promise made by the Premier (Mr. Selinger) that the Minister of Finance (Mr. Struthers) and the Minister responsible for Hydro would be issuing an apology to this House. Now, I know sometimes it takes a long time to get around to things in the House. The Minister of Finance has already acknowledged that he misled the House.

But we haven't heard the apology yet from the member for Kildonan. Now, he's a busy guy, so he might be –he might still be working up that apology, Mr. Speaker. He might be sending it through the 12 lawyers that are employed by the Minister of Finance, le galizing it. There's 192 communicators that have to look at it. But it was his Premier who said that he would apologize, so I hope that these comments from this

article are helpful to him as he looks for the apology for taking the tickets. Anyway, the art icle says, and I'll just quote a little bit, Mr. Speaker, and then I want to expand on it. It says, I deal with people who believe that admitting that they were wrong shows weakness or ineptness. The danger of that belief, especially when it is held by peo ple in positions of power or authority, is that it backs a leader into defending poor choices, even when they themselves have come to recognize they are wrong. But it's as though this

article was written particularly for the Minister of Finance and the Premier, Mr. Speaker. The article, admitting you were wrong doesn't make it weak–make you weak, it makes you awesome, by Amy Rees Anderson, I'll read that quote again: "I deal with people who believe that admitting they were wrong shows weakness or ineptnes s. The danger of that belief, especially when it is held by people in positions of power or authority, is that it backs a leader into defending their poor choices even when they themselves have come to recognize they were wrong." Now, that holds out the hope and possibility, Mr.

Speaker, that the Premier and the Minister of Finance have already come to realize that they are wrong on Bill 20. It holds out the possibility that they understand that they were wrong on Bill 20. But they've backed themselves int o a corner. They are now forced to defend poor choices because they believe that admitting that they are wrong will show weakness or ineptness. And that is kind of the hurdle that we face now with Bill 20. We find a Premier who is –clearly was wrong, Mr.

S peaker, who I think maybe even understands that he was wrong, but he feels that it's going to be a sign of ineptness if he admits that he was wrong. Now, there are certainly other areas one could find the Premier to be inept in, Mr. Speaker. We talked about the issue of Crocus and how he misled Manitobans, how he told them that the Crocus was strong, even though there were concerns raised about the valuation of companies that were held within the Crocus fund. He essentially encouraged Manitobans to hold those funds or to buy those funds through his suggestion that the fund was strong.

He changed legislation to allow for rolling over and reinvesting in the fund as a way to try to mask the fact that there were problems and concerns with the Crocus Investment Fund. So he has shown ineptness already. We know that, and that's already on the record. But the danger in this particular case is that he's defending a choice, a decision that is wrong, because he thinks that it's going to harm him by admitting that he was making a mistake. Now, it is certainly possible, Mr.

Speaker, that if the Premier were to come out today and acknowledge that Bill 20 is, in fact, a mistake, is, in fact, a problem, that there are many Manitobans who might see him as inept. I suspect many of those Manitobans already see him as inept. It might not add to the numbers. It might just confirm it in the minds and hearts of those who already hold that belief. But it would still be the right thing to do. It would still be the right thing for him to come forward and acknowledge that having a PST tax increase is the wrong thing to do, that taking away the referendum is the wrong thing for Manitobans.

It would give him that opportunity to acknowledge to Manitobans that this is a problem. The article, Mr. Speaker, goes on to suggest a few other things. It indicates in the

article that in their minds–this would be the leaders that the author is referring to–in their minds they see this as a way to save face or prove they are deserving of their power or retain respect for their intelligence. Sadly, they

2594 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 20, 2013 don't accomplish any of those things. In fact, they accomplish the exact opposite. Let me read that again, Mr. Speaker. An Honourable Member: No, I want to hear it again, please. Mr. Goertze n: I–and I appreciate the member for St. Paul (Mr. Schuler) who is particularly engaged in this discussion. He himself, you know, being a former business leader in our province, Mr. Speaker, I think he understands the power of admitting mistakes, having em ployed individuals.

He himself would know that people often respect you more if you tell them when something has gone wrong or if you've done something wrong. So, again, the quote says, in their minds –the leaders who've made a mistake–they see this as a way to save face or prove they are deserving of their power or retain respect for their intelligence. Sadly, they don't accomplish any of those things. In fact, they accomplish the exact opposite. And what we're trying to do for the Minister of Finance (M r. Struthers), for the member for Kildonan (Mr. Chomiak), for the Premier (Mr. Selinger), is to give them an opportunity.

They may believe they're saving face by not admitting that they are wrong on Bill 20. They may believe that they are saving face by defending the decision to take away the referendum. They may believe, Mr. Speaker, that that is what they're doing. But I would subscribe to the theory of this author, the author who wrote the

article for The Globe and Mail, that, in fact, they accomplish the exact opposite. Now, we've seen Manitobans numbering in the hundreds, Mr. Speaker, who not only have signed up for a committee, who are being threatened to be jammed through the night in an archaic and unfair committee system, but we've seen Manitobans who have come to the Legislature, to the front steps of the Legislature, to the people's House, to try to get this government to admit that they've made a mistake. And I think in the early days of this debate–and I think we've been debating this bill now for 50 or so days in the House.

It probably seems like less time for some and more time for others. I'm not sure which side of the equation you'd fall on, Mr. Speaker. But I think that for those who came to the Legislature, both today and in rallies past , that they would have given some credit to the Premier and to the Minister of Finance had they come out and said clearly that they made a mistake, that they were wrong and that they were sorry for not only bringing in a bill that would increase the provin cial sales tax, but also bringing in legislation to do away with the referendum.

It certainly would have taken a lot of the legal haze on this issue away. And we know that this government is on extremely soft legal ground when it comes to this particular bill, not only by implementing the PST before the July 1st date, Mr.

Speaker, or –sorry– implementing it prior to the bill passing on the July 1st date, but also by the mere fact that they introduced the bill without first dealing with the issue of the refe rendum, because the current balanced budget law that stands in the province of Manitoba–indicates clearly that before a government can even introduce a bill that says that they can increase the provincial sales tax, that there needs to be the referendum or , I suppose, that referendum requirement could be removed.

But what the government has done–and I wouldn't recommend the removal of it, but, I mean, there are, certainly –it would be more legal for the government to of –have two different bills. Had they brought in legislation first that would have dealt with the issue of removing the referendum, we wouldn't have supported that; we would have opposed that and would have voted against that. But had they done that prior to bringing in a bill on the increase of the PST, well, that would be a different debate. * (15:50) But they decided to put it all into one bill.

They decided to move the two things and marry the two things together. And I wonder why that is, Mr. Speaker. Now, I have my own theories in terms of why that would be. And I think they simply didn't want a fight on two separate bills. They knew that they would be getting strong resistance from Conservatives who would be standing with and standing up for Manitobans, on the one bill as it is –stands to day. And they made the calculation that, better to have the resistance all flow on one bill than to have it spread out over two bills. Because then, we might be sitting here 'til November.

Well, look what they've done. We might still be sitting here 'til N ovember, Mr. Speaker, because this government hasn't been able to provide any rationale that makes sense to Manitobans in terms of why they need to have a PST increase. There hasn't been any proper rationale, Mr. Speaker, in terms of why they need to do away with a referendum requirement. It doesn't make any sense.

June 20, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2595 It doesn't make any sense for Manitobans. And when I look back at the article, about how, in fact, it accomplishes the opposite, by not admitting a mistake, I would hope that the government would come to a better understanding, a better understanding of what it is that they've done, that they would decide to take the time as a caucus and as a Cabinet to change their minds. Now, at some point, we're going to hear from Manitobans on this bill. T here are 200 -and-some Manitobans already registered to speak; I think 210 or so.

And they are going to have to be the ones to try to convince the government to change their mind. They are going to get their opportunity, Mr. Speaker. We've done, I think, al most everything that is possible on second reading of a bill, and we still have third reading and other things to come. But I think that we've done everything possible on second reading, to try to get the government to change their mind. And I want to em phasize, Mr.

Speaker, the various things that have happened: the reasoned amendment, which is not unprecedented but certainly highly unusual in the Manitoba Legislature and legislatures across Canada; the hoist motion, which, combined with the reasoned ame ndment is a very unusual thing, rarely done, I think, in the parliamentary system that we operate under here in Manitoba; having virtually all of our members speak to these issues, often at length, I would say, to give the government an opportunity to change their mind, to give the government an opportunity to acknowledge that what they were doing was wrong.

That's an exceptional measure. That is not something that happens often. It's not something that happens easily. It's not something that happens without a great deal of thought. And, certainly, we put a lot of thought into that, Mr. Speaker. And we thought it was right to stand up for Manitobans. We thought it was right to stand up for the people who were emailing us, who were calling, who were saying that this is the wrong decision. And we still feel that way. We still feel strongly for those Manitobans, and many of them are going to have the opportunity to speak directly now to their government.

We hope the Premier (Mr. Selinger) will attend all of the committee hearings, whenever they're held, Mr. Speaker. We've asked numerous times in this House whether or not he would be attending the committee hearings. We have not got a firm answer from him, even though it was the Premier himself who invited Manitobans to come to this committee. We've not gotten a firm answer from him. We've not heard a –firmly from a number of the members opposite, whether or not they are going to come and hear those Manitobans who are concerned about this legislation. We've not heard a commitment from the member for Gimli (Mr.

Bjornson), the Minister of Entrepreneurship, who, of all people, should be interested in coming to a committee to hear Manitobans talk about competitiveness. And there will be people who will come and tal k about how Manitoba is less competitive as a result of an increase in the PST. I would hope the member for Gimli would want to hear those presentations. There will be people who will come to talk about how cross-border shopping will increase as a result of the increase of the PST, and not just cross -border shopping to the United States, Mr. Speaker– An Honourable Member: I was going to say Alberta. Mr.

Goertzen: –but also to Alberta and to Saskatchewan. And my friend from Arthur -Virden who represents th e constituency on the border of Saskatchewan, he knows full well the allure that can happen now because of the disparity between the provincial sales tax between us and our fine friends in Saskatchewan. In fact, we had the Minister of Agriculture (Mr.

Kost yshyn) who was promoting it, who was saying that Manitobans who believe that the lights were brighter in Saskatchewan, well they should head there, they should go there, is what he suggested; they should pack up their cars and their trucks and they should go to Saskatchewan and buy what they need in Saskatchewan. Doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me, doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. I hope that the Minister of Agriculture will come as well, and I know he represents a constituency that's along or near the border of Saskatchewan.

So he'll hear from his constituents and maybe that's why he suggested that people head off to Saskatchewan, pack up their bags and go to the bright lights of Saskatchewan. That, maybe, is why he made the suggestion because he's hearing from those constituents of his who are along there–[interjection] The member for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson) mentions that they're even having babies on the highway on the way to Saskatchewan because they're

2596 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 20, 2013 not able to have them in the medical facilities here in Manitoba. I've heard of cross -border shopping but not cross -border birthing, but that seems to be the case now in Manitoba as people have to head off to Saskatchewan and have their babies on the highway. And certainly I would hope that ha ving a baby in Saskatchewan wouldn't make them a Rider fan, they would still continue to be good Bomber fans as opposed to Roughrider fans; in fact, I think I heard the Minister of Justice (Mr. Swan) accuse members of this House of being Roughrider fans.

I f there was ever something that was a matter of privilege that should have been raised, it should have been that. It should have been that as a matter of privilege that he would accuse any members of this House of being Roughrider fans. But maybe we'll sav e that for another time, but there probably is no greater case for a matter of privilege than accusing people of being Roughrider fans. I want to refer back to the

article because I got a little off track, the article, Admitting you were wrong doesn't ma ke you weak, by Amy Rees Anderson in The Globe and Mail edition, this year, May 7th, 2013. She also writes that if you want to be genuinely successful both–in both business and life, we have to be willing to set aside our pride, our fears and our insecurities and really come to recognize that to be a true leader that is deserving of their position of authority, we must earn, not demand, that respect.

The journey towards earning the respect begins the moment we recognize our mistakes and have the integrity and fortitude to utter the words: I was wrong and I am sorry. Now wouldn't it be something, Mr. Speaker, if the Premier (Mr. Selinger) would stand up some day–and we'd give him leave, I think, even on a day like today. We'd give him leave on this Thursda y afternoon; there's still time left in this sitting, and the Premier could rise in his place and he could utter the words: I was wrong and I am sorry. In fact, the member for Kildonan (Mr.

Chomiak), who has yet to offer the apology that his Premier promis ed he'd be bringing, could stand up and say: I was wrong and I am sorry. And the author says the journey towards earning respect begins the moment that we recognize our mistakes and have the integrity and fortitude to utter the words: I was wrong and I am sorry. Now, perhaps part of the problem is the government simply does lack the integrity, lack the fortitude. The Premier lacks those characteristics, that the Minister of Finance (Mr. Struthers) lacks those characteristics, and I don't say that easily.

It's a difficult thing, I think, to say, but ultimately, I think there's a truth to it, that there is a reality that if you're not willing to stand up and admit that you’ve made a mistake, that that is certainly part of the problem, that you might not have that integrity, that you might lack the fortitude to stand up and to say I was wrong and I am sorry. * (16:00) But we continue to be optimistic, Mr. Speaker. We are not people who have lost hope. We are eternal optimists in the hope that the government will come to realize their mistakes.

That they will have the integrity and the fortitude to stand up and say they were wrong. And the member for Kildonan may set the example, by giving the long-awaited apology that his Premier said that he would be giving. And perhaps with that example, it might encourage the Premier himself to offer an apology. It might be a cascade. We might hear from the member for Gimli (Mr. Bjornson) who slashed the pensions of retired teachers, who hacked and slashed the pensions– An Honourable Member: Fourteen thousand. Mr. Goertzen: Fourteen thousand –I'm reminded, Mr.

Speaker–retired teachers, who today don't have the promised retirement that they were offered. So we might hear an apology for him. We might hear an apology from the Attorney General for deleting warrants. I remember the Attorney General w hen he was at his computer late at night, deleting warrants for people who were dangerous offenders, Mr. Speaker. He might want to apologize for that. It's one of the reasons why we still have such a high crime rate in the province of Manitoba. And I was g lad that the police association brought forward that issue, about the minister, or the Attorney General, deleting warrants.

Mr. Tom Nevakshonoff, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair And it's a terrible thing when the police –when the police –have to come forward and cite the Attorney General for deleting warrants, for taking off the record warrants, and the police, I think rightfully, said– An Honourable Member: And then giving them Slurpees.

June 20, 2013 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 2597 Mr. Goertzen: Getting there –rightfully said, how can we do our job if you're deleting the records and the warrants from the computer system? Why is the Attorney General (Mr. Swan) sitting in his office late at night, probably while the committees are going on at 4 in the morning, and deleting warrants from individuals who ar e dangerous to the community. Why would he do that? But he has an opportunity to apologize, married with the apology from the minister from –or the member for Kildonan, on taking his ill-begotten Jets tickets.

We'd have the apology from the Attorney General, and why the Attorney General? While the Attorney General had the floor, he could apologize for buying Slurpees for high- risk car thieves. I don't know how we managed to–I wondered how it was that we became the Slurpee capital of Canada until I found out that the Attorney General was buying car – or buying car thieves all of these Slurpees. Well, it's hardly a wonder. There are so many car thieves in the province of Manitoba that if you buy every one a Slurpee, you're going to be the Slurpee capital and the car thief capital of Canada.

He managed to kill two birds with one stone. And we didn't hear the apology from the Attorney General. We didn't hear him stand up and say, I'm sorry; I shouldn't have been buying Slurpees and baseball tickets. He was buying baseball tickets for these high- risk car thieves and, again, the police association came out and said, this is ridiculous; it's an affront to our justice system, when the Attorney General shuffles off to 7 -Eleven with his Slurpee card and fills up Slurpee cups and hands them off as the kids jump into their stolen vehicles, and drive away–doesn't make any sense, but no apology.

No apology from the Attorney General, we never heard that. An Honourable Member: What about the member for Riel (Ms. Melnick)? Mr. Goertzen: And so I –well and I'm asked about the member for Riel, and this a serious –it's a serious issue, and I understand that the issue around the death of any child and particularly the tragic case of Phoenix Sinclair, but we've never heard an answer from the government.

We've never heard an answer from the government about missing files, and somebody ultimately should take responsibility, because there was information –there was information within there about those –about the actions and what happened wit hin Family Services. And whether it's the former minister, the member for Riel, or the current minister, the member for Fort Rouge (Ms. Howard), there has to be somebody who stands up and says, I was responsible; I may not –I have to be accountable, because, ultimately, you need to be account –it's what accountability is. And so we could have that apology from her.

We would look for an apology from the member for Dawson Trail (Mr. Lemieux), who blew up a bridge and didn't replace it. Who took out his dynamite sticks and his electric charges, he headed out down Highway No. 75 and put the charges under the bridge and he blew it up, and down went the bridge–down went the bridge.

I remember when the former premier, you know, the –this is one time I wish that the minister of diddly-squat would've done diddly-squat, and perhaps –and instead of just blowing up the bridge, found something to replace it with so that the people of the communities affected wouldn't be so inconvenienced. I remember when the Premier –the fo rmer premier, the –now the ambassador, was here and there were questions about bridges going across the floodway, and he said: Well, we have to put bridges across the floodway; otherwise, the cars just go into the floodway.

And he was very animated in showi ng us the cars would go boop, boop, boop, all over the bridge. Well, that's what we have for the minister of Dauphin–the member for Dawson Trail, the car would just go boop, boop, boop, into the river, because he's blowing up the bridge –he's blowing up the bridge. I might look to my friend –[interjection] Orders of the day, I –the kind of things I'm seeing, you'd think that this was the last day of session, and we're months away; I don't understand what's going on in this House. And, you know, we could look for apologies from other members, f

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-2-62b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 2nd hansardpdf 62b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	5cb6ca37b06979964926741d38d2eb0cbdfae0ea

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