Manitoba Hansard — 7 December 2000 (Sitting 3, 37th Legislature, 2nd Session)

37-2-3

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

� � Second Session- Thirty-Seventh Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LI No. 3- 1:30 p.m., Thursday, December 7, 2000

Member AGLUGUB, Cris ALLAN, Nancy ASHTON, Steve, Hon. ASPER, Linda BARREIT, Becky, Hon. CALDWELL, Drew, Hon. CERILLI, Marianne CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. CUMMINGS, Glen DACQUA Y, Louise DERKACH, Leonard DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary, Hon. DRIEDGER, Myrna DYCK, Peter ENNS, Harry FAURSCHOU, David FRIESEN, Jean, Hon. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. GILLESHAMMER, Harold HELWER, Edward HICKES, George JENNISSEN, Gerard KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie LATHLIN, Oscar, Hon. LAURENDEAU, Marcel LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. LOEWEN, John MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. MAGUIRE, Larry MALOWAY,Jim MARTINDALE, Doug McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. MIHYCHUK, MaryAnn, Hon.

MITCHELSON, Bonnie MURRAY, Stuart NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom PENNER, Jack PENNER, Jim PITURA, Frank PRAZNIK, Darren REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. ROCAN, Denis RONDEAU, Jim SALE, Tim, Hon. SANTOS, Conrad SCHELLENBERG, Harry SCHULER, Ron SELINGER, Greg, Hon. SMITH, Joy SMITH, Scott STEFANSON, Heather STRUTHERS, Stan TWEED, Mervin WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Seventh Legislature Constituency The Maples St. Vital Thompson Riel Inkster Brandon East Radisson Kildonan Ste.

Rose Seine River Russell Selkirk Concordia Charleswood Pembina Lakeside Portage Ia Prairie Wolseley River Heights Minnedosa Gimli Point Douglas Flin Flon St. James The Pas St. Norbert La Verendrye Fort Whyte St. Johns Arthur-Virden Elmwood Burrows Lord Roberts Minto River East Kirkfield Park Interlake Emerson Steinbach Morris Lac du Bonnet Trans con a Southdale Rupertsland Carman Assiniboia Fort Rouge Wellington Rossmere Springfield St. Boniface Fort Garry Brandon West Tuxedo Dauphin-Rob lin Turtle Mountain Swan River Political Affiliation N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C.

N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. Lib. P.C. P.C N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. P.C. P.C. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P. P.C. N.D.P.

59 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, December 7, 2000 The House met at 1:30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PRESENTING PETITIONS Health Centre Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Justina Andrusiak, Mary Elnisky, Joe Elnisky and others praying that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba request that the Minister of Health (Mr. Chomiak) and the First Minister (Mr. Doer) instruct the Winnipeg Regional Health Authority to end its plans to remove the Health Centre at 10 8 Bond Street from Transcona and to consider finding existing space in downtown Transcona.

TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Drew Caldwell (Minister of Education and Training): Mr.

Sp eaker, I am pleased to table the following reports, all copies of which have been previously circulated: Education and Training 19 99-2000 Annual Report; the Council on Post-Secondary Education 19 99-2000 Annual Report; Manitoba Education and Research Learning Information Networks, MERLIN, 19 99-2000 Annual Report; Manitoba Textbook Bureau 19 99-2000 Annual Report; the Annual Financial Reports for 19 99-2000 of the University of Manitoba, the University of Winnipeg and Brandon University; and the Annual Financial Reports 19 99-2000 of the Assiniboine Community College, Keewatin Community Col lege and Red River College.

Hon. Rosano Wowchuk (Minister of Agriculture and Food): Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the following 19 99-2000 annual reports, copies of which have previously been distributed: the Department of Agriculture and Food; Manitoba Agricultural Credit Corporation; Manitoba Crop Insurance Corporation; Manitoba Farm Mediation Board; and the Food and Development Centre. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the gallery where we have with us today from St. Maurice School 16 Grade 11 students under the direction of Mr.

Shaun McCaffrey and Ms. Lark Barker. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Member for Fort Garry (Mrs. Smith). On behalf of all honourable members, welcome you here today. Also seated in the public gallery from Spri ngs Christian Academy, 25 Grades 11 and 12 students under the direction of Mr. Brad Dowler. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Finance (Mr. Sel inger). On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today. * (13:35 ) ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Physician Resources Recruitment/Retention Strategy Mr.

Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Sp eaker, my question is to the Minister of Health. Along with failing to end hallway medicine, the First Minister (Mr. Doer) has failed to attract and keep physicians in Manitoba. Manitoba is experiencing a physician shortage. We see this with the closure of the McPhillips Walk-in Clinic, a clinic in the Health Minister's own constituency. In fact, several clinics are experiencing difficulty attracting and retaining doctors with more than 35 advertised physician vacancies throughout Manitoba.

60 LEGISLAT IVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 7, 2000 I would like to table a letter from doctors at the Park West Medical Centre, who have been running their centre short-handed for I 0 months. Let me quote directly from the letter, Mr. Speaker: After 25 years of providing service to the citizens of Charleswood, especially the Westdale and River West Park communities, the Park West Medical Centre is facing the real possibility of closure by the summer of 200 I. The doctors go on to write: With no help in sight we see no alternative but to fold once our lease expires next year.

Park West Medical Centre provides care for over I8 000 Manitobans. Will the Minister of Health please put the minds of I8 000 Manitobans to rest with the assurance that he will not let the medical centre close? Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): thank the member for that question. Mr. Sp eaker, while the member worked for Brian Mulroney, he might have been aware of the fact that- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Speaker, while the member was perhaps busy with other pursuits, the former provincial government, under the leadership of I believe Jim McCrae and other Health ministers at the time, entered into a contract to fund and to assist in the funding of Assiniboine Clinic, which is referenced in this particular report. I believe the prognostication and the review of that particular report indicated that the efforts of the provincial government at the time to prop up that clinic failed.

If the member is asking us to repeat that particular experiment, I think he ought to review and discuss it with other former Health ministers, one of whom is sitting on the front bench, as to whether or not in fact that is the way to go. Mr. Murray: Mr. Speaker, my honourable friend across makes reference to having worked with a number of people in pol itical life. I will put the people that I have worked with in pol itical life beside any of the people that he has worked with in pol itical life. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Murray: Mr.

Speaker, during the 1999 election, the Premier (Mr. Doer) and I believe the now-Minister of Health promised a physician resource plan. They said: It is an achievable plan and it is a credible plan. He promised the plan again in the 2000 Throne Speech. If this is such an achievable and credible plan, why, I4 months later when McPhillips Walk-in centre is closing, when Park West Medical Centre is threatened with closure because it does not have enough doctors, has the Minister of Health not shared his physician resource plan with Manitobans? * (13: 40) Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Speaker, I can indicate that the member was wrong in his statement. The McPhillips centre is not in my constituency. Notwithstanding that, the WRHA has worked with McPhillips centre. Because of retirements, they are working with McPhillips centre to see if anything can be done in that regard. I might add that we have attracted more physicians this year to Manitoba than last year or the time under the previous Tory administration. So we have managed to tum that around. I might add that we have been able, for example, this year to attract a physician who left, Dr.

Michael West, under the former Conservative government, who would not stay here under that regime, who has now come back, given the future of health care in Manitoba and the positive response that we have seen. Mr. Murray: This is a very serious issue. The Health Minister said he had a plan for recruiting and retaining doctors but instead of delivering on that plan we have seen them do nothing while medical centres in Manitoba struggle to keep their doors open because they do not have enough doctors. If the Minister of Health and in fact if the government opposite has a plan, let -

December 7, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 61 me be the first to break the news it is not working. We need immediate action. Will the Minister of Health tell Manitobans what immediate measures he intends to take to prevent any other medical centres from closing? Mr. Chomiak: Within several weeks we will be announcing our comprehensive physician recruiting and retention plan.

I am also very pleased to announce that, contrary to what happened during the decade of Conservative cuts and negligence in our health care system when the numbers of doctors training in Manitoba were reduced, we wil l be announcing for the first time in a decade more doctors being trained in Manitoba , expansion to the faculty for the first time in a decade. Cardiac Care Surgical Waiting Lists Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): I recently received an e-mail from Mr. Henri Hamonic entitled: Please help. Mr.

Hamonic has been waiting nine months for heart surgery for one artery that is 100 percent blocked and another artery that is 80 percent blo cked. What is this Minister of Health going to do to respond to Mr. Hamonic's plea for help and to ensure that he receives his heart surgery as soon as possible? Hon. Dave Cbomiak (Minister of Health): The member knows that I cannot discuss the specifics of a particular individual in this Chamber. If she will get me the details of that situation, I will look it up, and I will forward the situation. I think it is atypical. We are doing more cardiac surgeries.

We are very pleased to announce a comprehensive cardiac surgery program in Manitoba for the first time also in a decade where we are going to rebuild the cardiac program in Manitoba. * (13 :40) Mrs. Driedger: Will the Minister of Health just admit that, with this man waiting for nine months for cardiac surgery, his cardiac plan is not working because this man, Mr. Hamonic, this 57-year-old man on disability, just wants to get back to work? He has a job waiting for him. All we are asking is will this minister admit that his program is not working? This man did e-mail him yesterday. He should have that information.

Will this Minister of Health agree to meet with this gentleman? Mr. Chomiak: When individuals bring cases to the floor of the Legislature, which happens, we treat it very seriously, and I will follow up on that case. Mrs. Driedger: I would like to ask why the Minister of Health will not agree right now to meet with him because when he was in opposition he made sure that he went to every home of people that came forward to him with their problems. Will he not now be as accessible as Minister of Health as he was so eager to do as an opposition Health critic? Mr. Chomiak: Mr.

Spe aker, as the members know, and the members opposite know how we have responded to their individual questions and matters they have raised on health matters. We have followed the tradition that has always been the case in this Legislature when matters are brought forward, that they are dealt with expeditiously and dealt with in the intent that all of us have in this Chamber and that is to try to deal with health problems, and a health care system where there are 14 million transactions a year, 14 million transactions a year. We try to do our best.

We are not perfect, but one thing we have done on this side of the House, we have been able to reduce the majority of waiting lists. We have expanded services. I think most Manitobans recognize that the health care system has improved dramatically in only a year's time and will continue to do so. First Nation Casinos Headingley Proposal Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Speaker, the Premier (Mr. Doer) and the Minister of Gaming assert that Swan Lake's casino in Heading1ey was never considered because of the April 5 vote. That was something that was

62 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 7, 2000 reiterated today on radio. Yet this Government has stood by and watched while both communities have spent thousands upon thousands of dollars putting their positions forward even to the extent of going through the anguish of yet another plebiscite. If this Government has been so clear then can the minister explain to Manitobans why Eric Luke, the $1 65,000 chair of the implementation committee, said on September 6, 2000: Swan Lake and Headingley have to have another opinion. They have to ov ercome that negative plebiscite. Why would Mr. Luke have said this?

Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister charged with the administration of The Gaming Control Act): Mr. Spe aker, I realize that the member opposite throughout the implementation process for First Nations has I think consistently failed to look at the RFP and the process that was put in place and that is indicated by the questions that he has asked. I can indicate that following the vote that took place in April we received notice from Headingley by resolution indicating that was the will of the people for Headingley.

When Headingley asked us to ignore that I wrote back in September after taking the matter to Cabinet indicating we would not do that. The decision to hold another referendum, the wording of that referendum, the timing of that referendum, was entirely the decision of the Municipality of Headingley. *( 13: 45) Mr. Speaker, as well, I would like to indicate to the House that earlier today at the request of Swan Lake-[interjection] If members opposite would like to be aware that Swan Lake at their initiative met with myself and my colleague the Minister of Northern and Aboriginal Aff airs (Mr.

Robinson) and indicated that due to circumstances in Headingley surrounding the Red Sands Resort and casino project, it is Swan Lake First Nation's intention to withdraw from the casino project in Headingley, Manitoba. We will be in touch to make final arrangements and agreements to complete our withdrawal. I would like to table that in the House . Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, the minister and the Premier (Mr. Doer) both stated on CJOB radio this morning that indeed the casino in Headingley was not considered because of the April 5 vote.

I would like to ask the Minister responsible for Aboriginal and Northern Affairs (Mr. Robinson) to clarify his remarks of June I, when he said in reference to the casinos, quote : One is going to be located in Headingley. Was the minister misleading people of Manitoba, or was he in fact unaware of his Government's position on Swan Lake's proposal? Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, I find it very unfortunate with what has happened with the First Nation's gaming initiative that members opposite, apart from perhaps the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Murray) who I thought took the responsible course- An Honourable Member: The high road. Mr. Ashton: -the high road in indicating that his position was the same position that we have indicated publicly, that we recognize the original vote in April, but members opposite throughout this process have not focussed in on what admittedly is a new process in Manitoba, largely because for several years after the release of the Bostrom report they did nothing.

In setting up the process, we recognized that it was not a perfect process, but our intention has always been to put in place a process that is eventually going to lead to a number of First Nations casinos. We always said it would be up to five, and that stands. We continue to work with proponents to achieve that. Point of Order Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): On a point of order, Mr.

Speaker, Beauchesne's 417: "Answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and should not provoke debate." If this minister chooses to rise and answer a question that was directly asked of another minister upon a statement that the other minister spoke, we wish you would at least speak a little bit relevant towards that answer rather than sitting here and provoking debate within this House.

December 7, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA 63 Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Government House Leader, on the same point of order. Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): Just trying to discern the argument of the member, I bel ieve the minister was answering the que stion that was posed to him, clear and simple. Mr. Speaker, if the Opposition feels provoked, it is because they feel sensitive. Debate was not being provoked. * (13 :50) Mr.

Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Official Opposition House Leader, I would just like to take this opportunity to remind all members that questions are put to the Government and it is up to the Government which minister they wish to answer the question. At this time I would just like to remind all honourable ministers that, according to Beauchesne's Citation 41 7, answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and to not provoke debate. I would ask the co-operation of all honourable members. *** Mr. Derkach: Mr. Speaker, my last supplementary.

If Headingley would never be considered because of the April 5 vote, then why did this Government not allow another community to be selected? Can this Government tell us now, can the minister tell us now which community was left out as a result? Mr. Ashton: Having been in Opposition for a number of years, I realize that an opposition party does not have to take a position on issues, but to come in with two separate positions, two totally different positions on the same issue-this party, the Conservative Party, failed to bring in First Nations casinos when they were in government.

Si nce they have been in Opposition, they have opposed the process, and now the member gets up and says he is- Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Ashton: -concerned about other communities that have been left out. Give me a break, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Order. I would like to remind all honourable members that a point of order is a very serious matter, and I ask the co-operation of all honourable members. The honourable Official Opposition House Leader, on a point of order. Point of Order Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (Opposition House Leader): Mr. Speaker, if anybody knows Beauchesne's 41 7, it is this minister.

"Answers to questions should be as brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and should not provoke debate." There is not one area of that citation that this minister has not crossed over on. Mr. Speaker: On the point of order raised by the honourable Official Opposition House Leader, he does have a point of order. Beauchesne's Citation 41 7: Answers to questions should be brief as possible, deal with the matter raised and to not provoke debate. I would ask once again the co-operation of all honourable ministers. First Nation Casinos Headingley Proposal Mr. Darren Praznik (Lac du Bonnet): Mr.

Speaker, what is absolutely clear here is the inconsistency in which the Governme nt- Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. * (13 :55) Mr. Praznik: In April of this year the people of Headingley voted. The Government remained silent until just a few weeks ago. They allowed Mr. Nadeau to come forward a month or two later naming Headingley as the No. 1 choice. They hired Mr. Luke at $165 ,000 a year to tell Headingley they could have another referendum. The Premier's own press secretary just a few weeks ago said this was only one of 97 considerations and the plan may continue. Now,

64 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 7, 2000 just a few weeks ago, the Government says we will stand by- Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable Government House Leader, on a point of order. Point of Order Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Government House Leader): I am going to develop a new technique, Mr. Speaker. I am going to fake I am getting up and this will work just fine. Of course, Citation 409, a question must be brief, a

preamble need not exceed one carefully drawn sentence. Mr. Speaker: Order. On the point of order raised by the honourable Government House Leader, he does have a point of order. Beauchesne's Citation 409(2): A

preamble should not exceed one carefully drawn sentence. * * * Mr. Praznik: I would ask the First Minister, given that his Government did not commit to abiding by the April vote until just a few weeks ago, is the reason that they have made a policy decision to have a downtown casino in Winnipeg and did not want the competition of the Headingley casino. Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister charged with the administration of The Gaming Control Act): I am surprised at the member opposite because he obviously has not been following what has happened.

I mentioned before, and I think it is important to put on the record, that it was in June that the Municipality of Headingley by resolution of council indicated that it was their position to adopt the vote that had taken place in April. That was their decision. We were requested to ignore that result and in September, not a matter of weeks ago, in September of this year, we wrote to the municipality in Headingley. We said we accepted the results of the plebiscite which is one of the factors, one of the many factors that is involved in the consideration for it.

So the member is incorrect once again, and I wish, in addition to a little more consistency across the way in terms of their position on First Nations casinos, they would get their facts straight. Mr. Praznik: I would ask the minister then if he is being forthright and accurate. Did the minister inform the Swan Lake First Nation that his Government would reject the Nadeau report, would accept the April vote and would not be granting a casino licence to them in Headingley? Did he tell them that to prevent them from incurring any further costs in pursuing their proposal? Mr.

Ashton: Once again the member opposite shows that he has not done his homework, and I would quote from the selection committee report, and he just referenced that report, which stated quite clearly that taking into view publ icly expressed views was not part of their consideration. Taking into account such views is the role of government. The Government will undoubtedly consider the views of the public as well as the proponents and all other stakeholders in deciding whether and on what basis to proceed with any one or more of our recommendations. That was right in the selection committee report.

We followed that, and I would suggest the member do his homework before raising these questions. * (14: 00) Mr. Praznik: Si nce the minister has admitted it is in the purview and responsibility of government to make the decision, I would ask him: When did he let Swan Lake know that his Premier (Mr. Doer), his Cabinet, had accepted the vote of the residents of Headingley, had rejected the recommendation of Mr. Nadeau for a casino, so that that First Nation would stop incurring costs in pursuing this matter?

I ask him as well: Is his Government prepared to reimburse both Headingley and the First Nation for the cost they incurred by his failure to inform them of a Cabinet decision? Mr. Ashton: Once again the member opposite is not informed because if the member will recall what I said just a moment ago, the resolution of Headingley was in June. We were asked to ignore that, but we indicated in September we would not do so. That was public information. I

December 7, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 65 believe it was released immediately to the media by Headingley. That has not changed. I want to say again that in terms of Swan Lake-and I will put this on the record-! do believe they have dealt in good faith throughout this process. They, I do not believe, had any real say over some of the developments in Headingley.

I do nat think anybody in this province would have expe cted a situation where a municipality would invite in a First Nations community, then have a referendum, then adopt it, then try and have it rejected, then have a second referendum on a casino or trailer park. I want to say, Mr. Speaker, we will deal fairly with Swan Lake who, at their ini tiative, requested a meeting today and have now indicated their intention to withdraw. We will deal in good faith with Swan Lake because they have dealt in good faith all throughout this process. Income Tax Reductions Mr.

John Loewen (Fort Whyte): Like the last Throne Speech, this one is more noteworthy for what is not in it. Last time there was no mention of changes to labour law. This time there is no mention of changes to reduce personal income taxes.

My question to the Minister of Finance: would like to know if he understands that, as a result of his decision to delink from the federal tax system, as a result of his decision to set tax rates where they are set today, a middle-income family in Manitoba, a family of four with one earner earning $60,000 will pay $203 more in income tax in the year 2001 than they would have had he done like the rest of his coll eagues, which is nothing. Hon.

Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Once again the member opposite is going back to an issue where he has never been able to yet put forward any empirical evidence of somebody's pay stub showing a reduction in their taxes. As a matter of fact, when we did our research this year and we looked at the ranking for taxes of a two-income family of four, and the income taxes paid in 2000, they were the second lowest for people $25 ,000, $3 0,000 and $35 ,000; the third lowest for a family of $40,000; the fourth lowest for a family of $50,000; and the fifth and sixth lowest for families of $75,000 and $1 00,000.

Very fair and competitive taxes. Mr. Loewen: This Minister of Finance promised the people of Manitoba tax reductions. Will he do his homework so that he comes to understand fully that, as a result of the rates he set and his decision to de link, not only will a family of four earning $60,000 pay more, that in fact an individual earning $25 ,000 or more will pay more income tax in the year 2001 than if he had done nothing? Will he do his homework and prove that to himself? Mr.

Selinger: I think the member opposite should do his research and take a look at the results that were analyzed by the Canadian Tax Foundation where our taxes for families below $50,000 are in the low half of the country and, as a matter of fact, among the most competitive. If the member has any quibble with that, he should check that research before he makes any more allegations. Mr. Loewen: I can assure the minister I have done my research. It is unfortunate that he will not do his.

In light of the fact that he will not answer the question-because the question is about tax reductions that he has promised-! would ask the First Minister (Mr. Doer) if he would instruct his Minister of Finance to do his homework and advise the Premier of the full cost to Manitobans of the changes that this Finance Minister has made to Manitobans' tax system, and if he will instruct him to do his homework and inf orm him and inform Manitobans why he found it necessary to raise income tax rates so that Manitobans would pay more this year than they would have had he left the rates alone. Mr.

Selinger: I thank the member for that very precise and brief question. The member opposite wil l know that January 1, very soon to be upon us, $68 million in personal income taxes will roll out over and above the $75 property tax credit, which we promised in the election. We have exceeded

66 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 7, 2000 what we promised in the election and we have made the new system fair for families and all individuals in Manitoba. United General Contracting Certificate of Performance Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, yesterday when I asked the Minister of Conservation about the Government's procurement policies, which have been very slow in coming, the minister indicated that the contractor who produced the contract for the Knapp Dam was qualified. Yet I was told yesterday, and this was again confirmed to me this morning by Mr.

Gary Kurz, president of the Manitoba Ready-Mixed Concrete Association, that United general contracting which produced the concrete and built the dam did not have the plant and facilities certification standard for Manitoba, that is the Manitoba Ready-Mixed Concrete Association certificate of conformance for concrete production facilities. Will the minister now acknowledge that United general contracting did not have this appropriate certification? Hon.

Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): As I indicated to the member yesterday when he raised the question, I am still reviewing the situation in The Pas and I am told by my people today our staff will probably have the information ready by tomorrow. As soon as I have it, I will make sure the member receives the same information. Mr.

Gerrard: Will the minister acknowledge that the building of a dam structure like the Knapp Dam is important enough that companies producing the concrete should have the Manitoba Ready-Mixed Concrete Association certificate of conformance for concr ete production, just as companies in Ontario are required to have the Ontario certificate when they tender on government work? Mr. Lathlin: Mr. Spe aker, unfortunately, at the present time, I cannot confirm anything until I have received the information that I asked for yesterday. Government of Manitoba Procurement Policy Hon.

Jon Gerrard (River Heights): I ask the Premier (Mr. Doer) to acknowledge that delays in producing a proper procurement pol icy, which includes proper certification process, is really evidence that the Government's procurement policy is in a shambles. Hon. Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): Yesterday I indicated to the member that the procurement guidelines are in the hands of the Manitoba round table for review . As I indicated to him again yesterday, within about a week to I 0 days I will be able to make an announcement. Gaming Facilities Downtown Winnipeg Casino Mr.

Darren Praznik (Lac du Bonnet): My question is to the Minister responsible for the Manitoba Lotteries Commission. I would ask this minister today: Does her Government have any plans at the current time, any intentions at the current time for the construction or placement or issuing of a licence for a downtown casino in conjunction with any other project going on in the province of Manitoba? Hon. Diane McGifford (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Lotteries Corporation Act): I would like to thank the member opposite very much for the question. The answer is, unequivocally, no.

Corporate Tax Provincial Comparisons Mr. Jim Penner (Steinbach): Mr. Spe aker, this Government talks about keeping Manitoba competitive, but as other provinces move to lower taxes, this Minister of Finance was on the news the day of the Speech from the Throne wondering if his Government could afford to pay their commitments. Can the Minister of Finance explain how this Government plans to ensure Manitoba's competitive advantage among other jurisdictions when Alberta plans to cut its corporate income tax rates in half in three weeks?

December 7, 2000 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA 67 Hon. Greg Selinger (Minister of Finance): Well, first of all, the commitment made in Alberta was if affordable. At the time that commitment was made, oil was selling at $34 a barrel. It has now dropped below that, and the Minister of Finance in Alberta has hedged his bets. It depends on whether he has the extra $5 billion through energy revenues. * (14:10 ) What we will do in Manitoba to keep ourselves competitive is exactly what we promised in the election.

We will educate more young people so that they can enter the labour market with skills; we will have a health care system which provides for the needs of Manitobans which is a huge advantage in terms of international competitiveness; we will create safe neighbourhoods where people can live in a sense of peace and security, unlike our neighbours to the south who live in cities where fear stalks the streets. Of course we will have fair and competitive taxes and Crown corporations which of fer among the lowest energy rates in North America. Mr. Jim Penner: Mr.

Spe aker, obviously that is not going to go down very well with business. How can the Minister of Finance ensure that Manitoba will stay competitive when even Saskatchewan can offer a long-term tax reduction strategy that includes a 25% reduction in personal income tax in two years? Mr. Selinger: At the risk of being repetitive, I should almost repeat exactly what I said to the first question.

We will bring forward a balanced program of training, health care, personal income tax regimes, safe neighbourhoods and affordable energy costs which will make Manitoba among the most competitive and affordable places to live in the country. Mr. Jim Penner: Mr. Spe aker, for the investment community to understand Manitoba advantage, we have to be competitive with other provinces. Can the Minister of Finance give the business taxpayers any hope of relief so they will continue to invest in our province? Where is the Manitoba advantage? Mr.

Selinger: I am surprised that the member opposite has not noted that we will be reducing small business taxation by 37 percent by the year 2002. Flood proofing Programs Red River Valley Mr. Frank Pitura (Morris): Yesterday the International Joint Commission released its report Living with the Red, which examines ways to reduce the flood threat in the Red River basin. The report states that flood protection for a major population centre in the Red River basin needs immediate attention, that people in the Red River basin remain at risk until measures are taken. Mr.

Spe aker, given that the Throne Speech was silent on the matter of major new infrastructure projects such as floodway improvements and dike construction, could the Minister of Conservation explain what steps his Government is taking to address the very real threat of major flooding in the Red River Valley? Hon. Oscar Latblin (Minister of Conservation): Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for the question because the issue of flooding in the Red River Valley is of great concern not just to our Governmen t but to people living in the Red River area. Yes, the soil moisture conditions, as we know, today are high.

We have known that all along throughout the fall, but I would like to assure the member that there has been significant work done towards the flood proofing of the homes and businesses in the Red River Valley. For example, as of today we have floodproofed 60 percent of the homes and businesses in the Red River Valley. Our technical capabil ities have greatly improved since 19 97. We have hydrometric stations now modernized to a significant degree and 28 new ones being added. So I think, Mr.

Spe aker, while we cannot with a hundred percent guarantee that there will be no problems in the spring, I would like to assure the member that we have- Mr. Speaker: Order.

68 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 7, 2000 Mr. Pitura: Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for that information. Given that the Premier (Mr. Doer) has spoken and indicated that more studies are needed, could the Minister of Conservation indicate how many more studies are needed in terms of the floodproofing for the Red River Valley and how long will it take your Governmen t to move from the study stage to the action stage? Mr. Lathlin: Mr.

Speaker, as I indicated to the member, the floodproofing program that we have carried out so far, those are not merely studies, those are programs and services, resources that have been expended. I have actually gone to the area myself to tour the place and find out to what degree the physical damage had been done. Also I was interested in talking to the individuals themselves to mainly encourage them that our Government will continue to work with them to floodproof their homes and businesses.

I would like to assure the member that I do take this issue very seriously, and I will continue to work with whoever wants to work with us to make sure that we do not go through the same experience that we did in 19 97. Mr. Pitura: Mr. Speaker, my final supplementary to the same minister deals with the report Living with the Red. I would like to ask him when the Governmen t plans to make a final decision on whether it will be undertaking a major overhaul of the floodway or building a dam at Ste. Agathe? Mr.

Lathlin: I am advised that there will be public hearings carried out in January, after the new year, and after that we will be making a decision. Floodproofing Programs Winnipeg Mr. Marcel Laurendeau (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Conservation. The flood of '97, which was the flood of the century, was something that brings back memories within my community, and the IJC report reminds us of that, but there is another fear that we are having within our constituency today. That is with the City of Winnipeg.

The City of Winnipeg has come around to a number of the communities throughout the city and said they are going to have the Berlin Wall built behind their homes, 16 -foot walls in some cases, and they have given them no opportunity and no choice. The city has said you build it or we will no longer be your support. Does this minister support the City of Winnipeg in their stand that the people who do not build these 16 -foot walls will not have the support? Hon.

Oscar Lathlin (Minister of Conservation): I know the member approached me at the doorway of the Legislative Building here just the other day and he related the same story to me. I thought we had an agreement that he would write me a note and he and I would be meeting later to see what we can do. Mr. Laurendeau: Yes, Mr. Spe aker, there will be a letter forthcoming, but I was hoping the minister could give me an answer on that. We have also got people within my constituency who are not able to build a dike. The homes outside ofthe city of Winnipeg, there was a buy out plan.

Will that same buy-out plan be available for the homes within the city of Winnipeg? Mr. Lathlin: I thank the member for the question. I was looking for the letter that I wrote to the federal representative, Ron Duhamel, where we have in very clear terms told him that we were interested in resolving the issues, but as the member knows, we just went through a federal election and the time that I was talking to him he was headed for an election campaign. I am sure he is going to be responding to me in due course as the topic of my letter to him was the very subject that the member is talking about right now.

Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Order. Time for Oral Questions has expired. I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the loge to my left, where we have with us Mr. Don Orchard, the former Member for Pembina. On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you here today.

December 7, 2000 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA 69 MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Mennonite Central Committee Mr. Jim Penner (Steinbach): I am pleased to rise in the House today to pay further tribute to an organization that has touched the lives of literally thousands of people throughout the world. As members of this House know, on November 16 of this year the Mennonite Central Committee was presented with the prestigious St. Boniface Hospital and Research Foundation 2000 International A ward.

The award is presented annually to recognize those individuals or organizations that make international contributions to health care and/or humanity. The selection of MCC for this noble award whose past recipients include the likes of Mother Teresa is a recognition of the countless numbers of individuals who have not only given their time but in many cases dedicated their entire lives to the cause of helping others. * (14: 20) Mr. Speaker, I am proud to note that MCC is an organization that has deep roots in the Steinbach constituency.

Many residents have contributed to the financial well-being of the organization and many more have participated in the countless projects throughout the world designed to help countries develop and succeed. Since 19 20, the Mennonite Central Committee has provided more than $700 million in food, money, and supplies to those in need around the world. They have throughout the many difficulties and natural disasters and inhumanities that have plagued our world demonstrated the true spirit of love and caring.

While this award was presented to MCC as an organization, I know that it was given on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of people whose lives have been changed by their kind words and accepted by the hundreds of thousands who have given of themselves these past 80 years to make our world a better place for its citizens. Glenlawn Collegiate Career Symposium Ms. Linda Asper (Riel): On November 29, 2000, I had the pleasure of participating in Glen lawn Coll egiate's Looking into Opportunities Now Day. This career symposium was designed to assist students with post secondary and career explor ation.

Gle nlawn hosted 75 presenters who offered 12 0 sessions throughout the day. Students chose their areas of interest and were scheduled into three or four sessions each, including such exciting topics as marine biology, film editing, nursing, natural resources and tourism. The symposium began with a meeting of students and their staff advisers to get their passport for the day, then a keynote address on student choice by Dr. Constance Rooke, president of the University of Winnipeg.

Along with some 30 students, I attended the session on the fashion industry where we learned that this industry is not only the glamour of Gucci and Dior but also hard work, creativity and persistence by designers who work in a variety of situations, be it the armed forces, seniors' services or department stores. Students were made aware of the qualifications needed for this delightful career. At the end of the day, students debriefed in an evaluation process with their staff advocates.

It is very encouraging to see that schools such as Glenlawn Colle giate are providing opportunities for Manitoba's youth to explore their interests that lead to career decisions. Congratulations to Donna Bulow, the school principal, and her staff, and in particular Janice Sharpe and Dennis Cape, school counsellors. They have excellent educational initiatives in Gle nlawn Col legiate. Good luck to the students as they move toward graduation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Winnipeg Christmas Cheer Board Mrs.

Louise Dacquay (Seine River): This morning I and a number of my coll eagues in the PC caucus, along with our staff and interns, had the pleasure of helping the many volu nteers at the Winnipeg Christmas Cheer Board pack Christmas hampers. It was wonderful to see the amount of community involvement and the sheer energy and excitement that these volu nteers displayed. Our MLAs and staff donated stuffed animals and delivered them to the Cheer Board

70 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 7, 2000 this morning just in time to replenish the inventory of toys available. While helping put together Christmas hampers, it was heartwarming to see that the most inspired volunteer members were the children from St. Vital School Division. Their smiles and laughter filled the facility with Christmas spirit so much so that we joined them in singing Christmas carols. I would like to thank the Christmas Cheer Board for inviting our caucus to participate once again this year.

I would also like to commend everyone who has donated food, clothing and toys to the Cheer Board. I call on all members to urge Manitobans to help make the holiday season brighter for all by donating food items or toys to the Christmas Cheer Board. On behalf of all members, I would like to thank all of the men and women who work tirelessly during the holiday season at the Christmas Cheer Board to ensure that those less fortunate also have an enjoyable holiday season. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. St. James Collegiate Student Volunteers Ms. Bonnie Korzeniowski (St. James): Mr.

Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I rise today to acknowledge a service provided by students of St. James Coll egiate on voting day. Be it municipal, provincial or federal elections, the student council arranges for several guides to be located at the different doors in the coll egiate. The guides and assistants escort the voters from the particular school entrance to the polling room and then escort them back. Because of slippery conditions and because many of the voters who cast ballots during the period from 8:30 to 3:30 tend to be elderly, this service is especially helpful.

Depending on the physical condition of the voters, the guides provide a helping arm or perhaps just assistance going up and down stairs or opening a heavy door. Well over 20 students were involved in the service for the latest federal election, all volu nteers. Most were members ofthe student council, but a large proportion were also students who generously donated their spare time to a worthwhile cause. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the student council and all the other student volu nteers for their

part in rendering this helpful service, as well as the principal of St. James Col legiate, Mr. Greg Mutter, and the student council advisers, Ms. Lindsey May and Mr. Tom Dercola. Hopefully this exposure to the voting process will contribute to the students' sense of commitment and responsibility and encourage them to become active citizens and vote, once eligible. Perhaps it will also encourage them to become more interested and involved in the pol itical arena.

Ef forts like this help the community understand today's students better and make the students more cognizant of the needs of the community, thus benefiting everyone. Thank you. Initiatives in Northern Manitoba Mr. Gerard Jennissen (Fiin Flon): Mr. Speaker, I rise today to bring attention to one of the many of our Government's significant initiatives in northern Manitoba, the latest being our commitment to having a single electricity rate for all Manitobans regardless of where they live.

It is well known that most of the hydro power in this province originates in northern Manitoba and yet northern residents continue to pay higher rates. The average monthly rate in Winnipeg based on the use of I 000 kilowatt hours of electricity is $48.93 compared to $6 1 .62 in communities such as Brandon and Flin Flon and $69.04 in smaller rural and northern communities. Our Government believes that a farmer near Roblin or a miner in Leaf Rapids should pay the same rate as the people in Winnipeg.

It is for this reason that our Government has committed to enhance the affordability of this crucial service for our northern and rural residents. Manitobans have built this resource together, and they should all share in its benefits. With Manitoba Hydro projecting a surplus of $200 million, rates everywhere will drop to the same level paid in Winnipeg. Rural and northern Manitobans have been paying higher hydro rates for much too long, and creating a single residential hydro rate across the province is the right thing to do.

However, this initiative is but one of the many initiatives on which our Governmen t has

December 7, 2000 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA 71 focussed in northern Manitoba. We are beginning to address the huge infrastructure deficit left to us by the former government. One of our priorities is enhancing roads and highways in northern communities and improving or creating access to northern remote communities. Another very positive initiative implemented by our Government was the elimination of the $50 Northern Patient Transportation fee. This fee was unfairly targeted at northerners. As well, our Governmen t is addressing the health professional shortages in northern and rural Manitoba.

Upon assuming office, our Government created the Aboriginal Justice Implem entation Commission to develop an action plan based on the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry recommendations. These are but a few of the many initiatives our Government has taken to strengthen northern communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. * (14: 30) ORDERS OF THE DAY THRONE SPEECH DEBATE (Second Day of Debate) Mr. Speaker: Adjourned debate on the proposed motion of the honourable Member for Dauphin-Roblin (Mr. Struthers), standing in the name of the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray), who has unlimited time. Mr.

Stuart Murray (Leader of the Official Opposition): Mr. Speaker, it is a great pleasure to again address the Manitoba Legislature for the first time as the Leader of the Official Opposition. I consider it a distinct privilege to stand in this Chamber that served in the fine Canadian tradition of parliamentary government. It is an honour and something that I take very seriously, both as a Manitoban and as a Canadian. Today, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to take a moment to recognize those people that came before me, the countless number of people that have sacrificed their lives in the name of freedom for the principle of democracy, brave men and women who travelled to distant lands to challenge those who would desire to take basic rights from us. I would also like to pay tribute to those who left behind mothers and fathers and sons, brothers and sisters, who may have lost their most precious loved ones.

We owe a great debt of gratitude to the men and women who built this province and built this country, from the first people who were indigenous to these lands and all of those who came here from every part of the world to seek freedom and a better way of life. My service here on behalf of the people of Manitoba is dedicated to their lasting, living legacy. Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to stand here together with other men and women who serve in this Chamber as freely elected members and representatives of the people.

The principle of democracy is a global phenomenon, but we once and sometimes take it all too much for granted. The tearing down of the Berlin Wall in 19 89 was a symbol to the world that people of all backgrounds and of all nationalities have the same basic needs and the same basic desires, that their voice is heard in the hallways of government and that their vote makes a difference. We cannot forget that while much of the world enjoys this right, there are other who still live in fear, in poverty, in famine and live sometimes in war.

It is also to them that we dedicate our words and our actions so they may too one day enjoy the taste of freedom and prosperity. As I look through our history as a nation, I believe there is a common thread that weaves its way through the generations. Whether our ancestors came to this country by foot, by ship or by plane, the vision for a better life, a new life is one that they all shared. Our country was not built by individuals, but as people working together. It was built by families and communities working together for a common purpose, a common goal.

It was people who built this country because they came together perhaps through public service. It is because of that vision, that spirit and that tradition that I stand before you in this House today. Mr. Speaker, I was raised in a small southern central Saskatchewan town called

72 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 7, 2000 Punnichy. Punnichy today is just 250 people. Well, they say the little guy from Punnichy. Indeed I am, and l am delighted and proud to be so. You know, my hometown of Punnichy has faced some of the same challenges and the many challenges that are experienced by some of our own rural communities. But it was in that time when l grew up around the family farm that l came to understand what is required of us as citizens of this great land.

When fall harvest was upon us and the skies looked threatening, family and community came together to get the last of the crop in. When the local curling club had a bonspiel, everybody participated. Everyone had a job to do. When it came to local government, you answered that calling and served for the betterment of the community. Mr. Speaker, my father was a farmer. He taught me the value of hard work and the rewards that come from those efforts. My mother was a pharmacist and also served on the town counc il.

Discussions around our dinner table were as likely to be about the price of wheat or land use as it was to be about their young son's less-than-stellar report card. Family, community, public service, those three things very much reflect my upbringing, and they are the principal reasons why I am here today. For me, family, community and public service have all come in that order. After attending school here in Manitoba, fell very much in love with this province and more importantly with my future wife, Ashleigh Everett.

Before that time came to pass, I had an opportunity of a lifetime, to tour the world with one of Canada's leading rock and roll groups, Blo od, Sweat and Tears. In those five years, I saw some great places, and I met some fascinating people, but after countless miles and fond memories, I returned home to Canada. I spent a few years in the non profit sector working as a fundraiser for the Canadian Opera Company in Toronto. But soon the road beckoned again, and I was offered my second opportunity of a lifetime, to work in the Prime Minister's office as tour co-ordinator and later as director of tour.

It was during that time that I earned a greater understanding and respect for the work of our public officials. I also grew to appreciate the work of those behind the scenes, the political staff, the people in the civil service and the people who support the process of government in a volu nteer capacity. What always shone through was a common purpose, a common vision to serve the country in the best way possible. As the saying goes, all roads eventually lead to home. When Ashleigh and I decided to settle down with Sarah and Haley, we chose to come back to Manitoba.

It was then, when I began working in the family business, I discovered something very new and very different. Manitoba was beginning to transform itself from a have-not mentality of the past to a can-do attitude that l have seen in communities throughout our province. This attitude was in stark contrast to the days of the 19 80's, when I seriously felt Manitoba had lost its way. What impressed me when I returned was the leadership and the guidance and the dedication to the provincial government under Gary Filmon. I observed that they too shared the same belief of family, community and public service.

They believed in government that lived within its means, one that balances budgets, pays down debts and keeps taxes competitive, one that cares for the needy in our society and builds hope for our young people. That is, they were a Progressive Conservative government. * (1 4:40) Mr. Speaker, l believe the pinnacle in our transformation as a province happened in 19 99 when Manitoba hosted two major world-class events, the Pan American Games and the 19 99 World Junior Hockey Championships.

I feel very privileged that I was able to serve as chair of the World Juniors, and l know Ashleigh felt the same as chair of vol unteers for the Pan American Games. There were many days during those events that Ashleigh and I found ourselves feeling that something very special was unfolding. Thousands upon thousands of people from every walk of life were coming together, working side by side in communities throughout our province for a common goal.

It was at that time that I began to marvel at the heights we could achieve as Manitobans when we all worked together, people with a united vision, a purpose and a plan.

December 7, 2000 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA 73 Mr. Speaker, when I look back through the history of Manitoba, I have discovered some striking observations; that is, whenever we have faced a challenge, Manitobans have gathered together and worked as a community. But I have also observed that it has been Conservative and Progressive Conservative governments who offered the vision and the leadership to meet those challenges.

This party is rooted in the very foundations of Manitoba, and since the election of John Norquay as Premier in 18 78, Conservatives and Progressive Conservatives in Manitoba have led the way in so many areas of social and economic development. Mr.

Sp eaker, I want to take a moment to mention a few of their achievements for you today: the establishment of Manitoba's first agriculture college, Manitoba's first technical college, incorporation of the University of Manitoba, crop insurance, farm credit, the first services for the deaf, the Nelson River hydro development, student loans, low-cost rental housing, social allowance, medical assistance, the Winnipeg Floodway, fiscal responsibility, more effective government, income assistance and, most recently, balanced budgets, debt repayment, a thriving economy, low unemploy ment and an astounding 72 provincial tax cuts since 19 88.

Mr. Speaker, this is our party's record of achievement, and I am proud to compare it to any other party in Canada, but as I mentioned at the very beginning, none of those things could possibly happen by individuals working in isolation. They happened because people from all parts of Manitoba came together in this House united by a common vision and fixed on a common goal.

Through the years we have all benefited from the leadership of premiers and governments who harness the vision of the people and brought it to lif e, leaders like John Norquay who was truly an explorer at heart, whose inspiration it was to open up Manitoba for new settlers to our province, so they could create a new life in a new land, leaders like Duff Roblin who had a dream. That dream was to improve the lives of Manitoba through better health, better education, better social services. He called it a social investment.

Leaders like Sterling Lyon, a visionary who believed in a strong Canada, more efficient, effective government and leaving more money in the hands of taxpayers, a premier whose history has shown, Mr. Sp eaker, was really ahead of its time and finally leaders like Gary Filmon, a builder who believed in living within our means and sharing the benefits of a balanced budget and a strong economy through priority investments in health, education and services to family.

Each of these four individuals was very different in their approach, but their goal was the same, to make our province a better place for our children and our children's children. Mr. Sp eaker, I am very proud of the history of our party and the things we have been able to achieve for the people of Manitoba. In the fall of 19 99, Manitobans decided to take a detour, and in a democracy we accept their decision. They wanted us to rethink, retool and perhaps redirect some of our thinking.

At the same time, they asked us to be their voice and bring forward their issues and concerns in the Legislative Assembly as the Official Opposition. Like everyone else, I was willing to give this new government the benefit of the doubt and like everyone I eagerly awaited this Government to proclaim their vision and their plan for Manitoba. Sadly, it has been more than 14 months and the people of Manitoba are still waiting to know what the Government stands for and where it is going. Unfortunately the only thing we have learned in the first 14 months is that Today's NDP looks a lot like yesterday's NDP.

I say that because we still see the leftovers of the Howard Pawley regime haunting the halls of government, and the question I have on behalf of Manitobans is why. Why would this Premier's first phone calls be to Eugene Kostyra and Vic Schroeder? How could he have the fortitude to tell Manitobans that the architects of the biggest tax grab in Manitoba history, the architects of the half-billion-dollar deficit were the first ones to give advice on how to run a government? What was he thinking?

Bad management is what put Howard Pawley out of business, and I caution this Government to keep a close watch or Manitoba will once again be headed in the same direction. On behalf of taxpayers of Manitoba,

74 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 7, 2000 Mr. Speaker, we will hold this Government accountable in spending tax dollars wisely. This week the Premier and his Governmen t had an opportunity with the Throne Speech to redeem themselves for the missteps that have plagued them since they took office. However, as I listened to the Throne Speech it became very clear very quickly that this Government was passing that opportunity up. Like whistling past the graveyard, I fear this Government is taking the attitude that if they just ignore the problem long enough it might just go away.

I am talking about the Government's silence in the area of health care. While last year's Spe ech from the Throne had an entire

section on health care, there were some specific and very simple promises, this year there was nothing. The Throne Speech barely made a mention of health care, making it painfully clear that the Government is completely backing away from health care promises and its commitment to making health their No. 1 priority. It concerns all of us on this side of the House. I know that I am not alone when I question the Government on its obvious avoidance of this most important issue particularly when health care was trumpeted as the No. 1 concern during the last election and in the last session in this House.

In fact, we will recall that during the election campaign the Premier, then the Opposition Leader promised Manitobans that by spending $15 million he was going to end hallway medicine and fix health care in six months. In the world of health care that is not a lot of money but he made it sound so simple. He said it was achievable and realistic. He guaranteed to Manitobans that he had a plan to accomplish it. Perhaps the Premier has avoided raising these promises in the most recent Throne Speech because he likes to think that he has delivered them. After all, he promised Manitobans he would fix it in six months.

But make no mistake, Mr. Speaker, after 14 months in office it is clear that many waiting lists have grown longer, the nursing shortage has almost doubled, and patients are still lying in hospital hallways.

After promising Manitobans that he had a simple, realistic plan that would fix it all, I guess with a record like the one I just described, the Premier does not want to talk about health care any more. * (14 :50) His attention to this issue has faded nearly to a whisper, apart from thin words about physician recruitment and retention strategy, a plan, might I remind this House, first announced during the 19 99 election campaign. At the time, the then Opposition Leader said he had a physician resource plan that was achievable and credible. Mr.

Speaker, if this plan were so credible and achievable, why then 14 months later have they not shared this plan with Manitobans? They promised it during the 1999 election. They promised it in their first Throne Speech and now they are promising it again. What are they waiting for? If one considers that Manitoba is in need of more family physicians in both rural and urban areas, they are experiencing a severe shortage of specialists, and some community health clinics are closing their doors in Fort Garry and Elmwood, why has this government delayed in implementing a physician recruitment and retention strategy?

What is one to make of the growing nursing shortage? It has nearly doubled under this Government. Again, I remind this House of the then-Opposition Leader's own words in the 19 99 election. He said if it takes hiring more nurses, then he would do it. Simple as that, he said. Well, the nurses are needed but they have not been hired. Why is that? This Government promised Manitobans they would hire more full time nurses immediately, yet the shortage has grown by hundreds-hundreds, Mr. Speaker. Although they promised to convert part-time nursing to full-time positions, we have seen nothing.

As Maureen Hancharyk, the president of the Manitoba Nurses' Union, said: If government does not solve the nursing shortage, it certainly will not solve health care problems. Mr. Sp eaker, there it is, laid out just as simple as the Premier Sl;lid it was, solve the nursing shortage. This is the Premier who said he had a plan, so where is it? What is he waiting

December 7, 2000 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA 75 for? Whatever happened to this Government's promise to put Grafton, North Dakota, out of business? The then-Opposition Leader said during the election: If it means opening diagnostic equipment for just a few more hours to keep Manitobans from going to the United States for tests, then he would do it. Well, Manitobans are still going south for treatment. Why did this Governm ent not do what it promised and do it to end this practice? It was also disappointing to see that the Throne Spe ech did not make any reference to community care or long-term care.

With our aging population, we cannot afford to overlook long-term care and preventative care. Right now the vast majority of dollars are going into acute care. In fact, since the merger of the WCA and the WHA, long-term care has received significantly less focus. That, too, is a concern. Again, this Government has had 14 months to fix the health care problems they promised they would fix in 6 months, but all we have seen is a band-aid applied here and a band-aid applied there. This Government used to talk the talk when it came to health care, but I ask the question: Were they only words? Nice words.

Now even the nice words have stopped, and I fear so has the Premier's commitment to live up to his promise. The truth is there was precious little in this Throne Speech for health care. No plan for our hospitals; no plan for the growing needs of the aging population; no pla n for new health infrastructure and equipment. Well, Mr. Speaker, Manitobans are waiting. It is time we see a full plan on health care, not more of the scattergun approach the Government continues to take. It has been said so often, but it bears repeating again.

The NDP made only five promises in the last election, and two of those promises were to do nothing. Regrettably, those may be the only promises they will be able to keep. However, in the minds of Manitobans, the NDP were really elected on one promise and one promise alone and that promise was really a slogan. The slogan was to end hallway medicine and fix health care in six months. Throughout their time in opposition and again in the last election, the NDP have politicized the issue of health care.

They enlisted the help of union bosses to run ad campaigns, staged protests, plant anti government signs on the boulevards, and then they campaigned door-to-door scaring the sick and the elderly that we were out to do away with universal health care. I believe those decisions, especially in health care, should be made for the good of the people, not out of fear, not out of the narrow interest of some, and not for the political gain of the New Democratic Party. Mr. Sp eaker, I fear this Government is more concerned about slogans than solutions.

Six months came and went, and they failed to make good on what they said was a simple, realistic and achievable promise. We are now in their second year of office, and I have yet to see evidence that this Government has a plan for health care. You know, the money is now flowing from Ottawa. They have run out of excuses. It is time to see some action. On behalf of the people waiting for a bed, waiting for surgery, waiting for diagnostic tests, we will hold this Government accountable. Mr. Speaker, I could go on and on about this Government's health care failures and broken promises.

I would like to turn to another important issue to Manitobans, something that might be a little foreign over there, competitiveness in taxation. I firmly believe that this Premier's (Mr. Doer) lack of commitment to the meaningful tax relief is a tragedy waiting to happen. At first, this Government did what the previous government was planning to do which was delink Manitoba's tax system from the federal system giving our province more autonomy, but they did it a year early so they could keep the federal tax savings for themselves.

So today while provinces all around us are reducing taxes, middle-income Manitobans are now the highest taxed family in Canada, the highest taxed family in Canada. Three years from now, just when the NDP will be running for re-election, that same family earning $60,000 will be paying 20 percent more in taxes or $1 ,250 more than they would in Saskatchewan, NDP Saskatchewan. I shudder to look to the east

76 LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA December 7, 2000 where our neighbours in Ontario will be paying 66 percent less in personal income taxes than we will. Mr. Speaker, I have already spoken about competitive taxes, and clearly this Governmen t continues to enjoy the benefits of a strong economy as a result of good government of the previous administration. But I also have noticed an alarming trend, and it is this Governm ent's spend-at-all-costs mentality. Last year, for example, the NDP tried and tried to generate a deficit, but try as they might, even the NDP could not outspend the growth of the economy.

I have to tell you that is the biggest surprise I have seen so far from this Government. They were experts at outspending the revenues in the 198 0s, but even with Howard Pawley's advisers hanging around, they could not find a way to do it. People must be tearing up their NDP membership cards at the union centres as we speak. * (15: 00) This is a serious issue, and I am very disturbed when I see a government spend $8 for every dollar of tax relief. Is this what the First Minister means when he talks about a balanced plan?

Eight to one might be good odds at the racetrack, but they are not very good odds for Manitoba's young people. Sure, the Throne Speech talked about sustainable tax reductions, increased property tax credits and something about the value of family tax credits in Manitoba being the second best in Canada. Does anyone on that side of the House have any idea what that means? Please fill me in, because I am curious to know. The truth is we are falling further and further behind our neighbouring provinces in the area of competitiveness and tax relief every day.

I have heard from Manitobans during the recent by-election who have said that tax cuts must be a priority. I know this message was sent loud and clear during the first Finance Minister's (Mr. Sel inger) recent pre-budget consultation meetings. Aside from the members on the other side of this House, I think Manitobans in general are calling for meaningful tax relief because it is a priority. I hope this Government remembers that as it continues preparing for its next budget. This Government talked about a commitment to fair taxation but so far has failed to deliver.

Let us hope that this time around we see action in their Budget and not just nice words. On behalf of the young people of Manitoba, we will hold this Government accountable on competitive taxation so they can pursue their lives and their careers where they want to be, here at home in Manitoba. The Throne Speech was billed as an education speech. Well, it was certainly an education for me. The teachers' union gave it their endorsement, so a red flag should go up right there. That aside, we will be asking many questions in the months ahead about their failed commitments in the area of education.

For instance, although MPI will rue the day they listened to their minister on how to spend $20 million in surplus, the fact is that a commitment was made and a commitment was broken. This Government has raised the hopes and expectations of Manitobans, and I look forward to hearing their plan to how they plan to fund the University of Winnipeg, Brandon University and St. Boniface Colle ge for infrastructure renewal. There was also no discussion about how this Government plans to address the proposed tuition hikes at Red River Colle ge and the University of Manitoba.

I understand Red River is looking at a proposal of almost 45 percent in tuition hikes over 4 years. What does this Government plan to do about it? I hope we will hear some answers as the debate unfolds. The Throne Speech was also strangely silent on some of the Premier's previous education commitments like his Grade 3 guarantee and his Grade 3 diagnostic assessment. In fact, yesterday the Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell) was asked about this very matter and to no one's surprise the minister had no answers. It is interesting.

News stories have been printed and aired highlighting the absolute mess this Government's Grade 3 assessment test is in, yet if no one was to listen to the Minister, one would believe everything was moving along just fine. As he indicated yesterday, the word from the field is very positive on this matter. I would like to remind the minister of the reality of his government's Grade 3 assessment. I referred to a letter from the principal of Rosser School that

December 7, 2000 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA 77 was sent to this Government. This letter emphasized the assessments that took an incredible amount of time, resulting in two and half weeks of lost curriculum time. Despite the positive words of the Minister of Education (Mr. Caldwell), who is trying to put a positive spin on the situation, the principal had this message for the minister, and I quote: "Please do not report to the public that this assessment went smoothly and cost nothing and provided teachers with valuable information. It was not a smooth process.

It cost more money than can be replaced, because teaching time was lost." The minister has also sent a bill by the principal to pay for the 40 hours of overtime her teacher put in to complete his Grade 3 assessment. I look forward to hearing if the minister will indeed be reimbursing the school for those costs. Going back to the Throne Speech, it was also disappointing that there was no mention, none whatsoever, of the special needs review, no mention of computer literacy for Grade 8 students and no mention of their commitment to offer e-mail to all Grade 4 students.

Just as in the area of health care, the nice words have stopped on those issues. Does that mean the commitment has stopped as well? On behalf of the students, parents and educators in Manitoba, we will hold this government accountable. As I have travelled throughout rural Manitoba, I have heard from producers about the difficulties they are in right now. I know candidates in the recent federal election heard it loud and clear as well.

Although I realize this government suf f ers a severe shortage of rural members in both Cabinet and caucus, I hope that they are taking the initiative to venture past the Perimeter Highway and acquaint themselves with the problems facing our farmers and our agribusiness. We did hear some very nice words about some very utopian concepts, but somehow I know they missed the mark. Using more ethanol sounds nice. Ecosystem planning sounds nice too, but ask the farmers in southwest Manitoba what their No. 1 priority is, and I do not think you will hear words like those.

We have producers across this province just struggling to get by. Where, for instance, is the aid this Government promised for the victims of the 19 99 flood? Where is the Governm ent in relation to the Canadian Farm Income Program? Do they share the same concerns as their Saskatchewan counterparts who feel the deal should be re-examined? I know this Government took great pride in declaring that they would usher in a new era of co-operation with the federal government on these issues, but the evidence would suggest they are not even returning the Premier's (Mr. Doer) phone calls.

Time after time, Manitoba farmers are getting short-changed, and it points to a real weakness on behalf of this Government. It is time the First Minister takes a personal interest in the area of agriculture and gets involved in federal-provincial negotiations. It is clear his designate is not up to the job. The same can be said about rural infrastructure development. I am all for expanding information technology to rural and remote areas. It is an area that is very near and dear to my heart, but you cannot drive a grain truck down the informa tion highway.

You cannot abandon rural infrastructure and expect our communities to survive. We need reassurances from this Government that with the plans in the works for a new national infrastructure program, Manitoba will be at the table. On behalf of farmers and rural Manitobans, we will hold this Government accountable for their lack of support for rural Manitoba. I would think that after MTX, after ManOil and after the 19 80 disasters with Autopac, this Government would have learned not to meddle with the operations of our Crown corporations.

I know from being a father sometimes it is hard to keep your young children's hands out of the cookie jar, but honestly, after 11 long years in opposition, even I did not think the NDP were capable of making the same mistakes again. I guess I was wrong. I guess I was wrong because there they were dipping into the Autopac reserve

78 LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA December 7, 2000 to give a gift of bricks and mortars on behalf of the motorists of Manitoba. Well, they may have appeared to be Santa Claus to some, but they came across as the Grinch to the Manitobans who bought and paid for auto insurance and were told that they would be paying a $20- million school tax without being asked or informed about it first.

Fortunately, this Government reversed that wrong-headed decision and gave the $20 million back to those who were entitled to it, the ratepayers of Manitoba. * (15 :10) Because they seem to have forgotten, I feel compelled to remind the members across the floor that they were reduced to seven seats in the House in 19 88, after wasting or losing $17 0 million in three Crown corporations alone. Although I might enjoy seeing the same electoral result after the next election, Mr. Speaker, I think the price tag is too high for Manitobans to pay again.

On behalf of Manitoba motorists, we will hold this Government accountable when it comes to the management of MPI and indeed all Crown corporations and from one disaster to another. If this Government's choice in mis management consultants was not frightening enough, one only needs to tum their heads to their legislative agenda starting with their attack on the workers of Manitoba. You know, Mr. Speaker, in the movie business, they say a sequel is never as good as the original, but it looks like the Premier (Mr. Doer) has a pretty good start on a horror sequel to Howard Pawley.

One of this Government's first orders of business was to tum back the clock on labour legislation to take away the freedoms and democratic rights granted workers under the previous government. Today, once again, coercion reins in against the workers of Manitobans. They no longer enjoy the same democratic freedoms we en joy to mark our ballots in private, but the saddest part, workers no longer have peace and security. They are no longer protected from picket-line violence.

On behalf of the workers of Manitoba, we will hold this Government accountable against the tyranny of those who wish to destroy their democratic rights and freedoms and drive jobs and opportunity out of this province. Mr. Sp eaker, many promises were made in Family Services that were either missed, ignored or forgotten in this week's Throne Speech. There was no mention to the transition to Aboriginal and Metis child and family services agencies, no word on whether the full National Child Benefit will flow to children, and nothing on their commitment to child daycare. Once again, the nice words have stopped.

Has the commitment stopped as well? We are also seeing an unprecedented expansion of Aboriginal gaming in Manitoba that will do nothing to deal with poverty and unemployment in the communities that need help because the intention is to locate those jobs somewhere else. Today, for the first time, we hear from the Premier (Mr. Doer) that the Headingley issue is dead because his Government is abiding by the results of the first vote that occurred in April.

What is unfortunate is that, if the Governme nt had every intention of abiding by the first result, why did they accept the Headingley proposal as a casino option in May? If the deal was dead in April, it makes no sense that the Province would accept the Headingley option in May. Even more disturbing is the fact that for months and months this Government allowed the community of Headingley to pit neighbour against neighbour. If the Governm ent was clear in its decision that it was going to respect the results of the first vote, why did the Premier (Mr.

Doer) or his minister not pick up the phone and let Headingley and Swan Lake First Nation know? Why did they lead these people on for all these months? Why did they not pick up the phone? Again it demonstrates this Premier's complete lack of leadership and highlights his Government's continued mismanagement of issues. Thankfully, due to the diligence of an effective opposition, the Governmen t is now forced to respect the wishes of local residents in deciding where the proposed casinos will be. We can only hope that the Province is more open with the remaining four casino proponents and

December 7, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 79 affected communities. Their careless drive towards pushing this initiative through has already cost them the job of their Gaming minister, the NDP's first casualty but regrettably probably not their last. On behalf of the Aboriginal communities in Manitoba, we will hold this Government accountable to ensure real jobs and real opportunities reach the people who need it most. Mr. Speaker, these are the reasons why I could sit on the sidelines no longer. I care too much about the future of our province, our community and our children. I had to get involved.

That is why I sought the leadership of the Progressive Conservative Party of Manitoba, and that is why l asked the people of Kirkfield Park for their vote in a recent by-election. I have to say that I have been overwhelmed by the support that I received from the people of Kirkfield Park and indeed from the people throughout the province. I also want to take this opportunity to publicly thank them for their show of confidence. At the same time, I want to note for the record, the NDP placed third in both Kirkfield Park and Tuxedo, and they ranked second in the last provincial election.

I do not believe those results reflect on the calibre of the individual candidates, because I consider them upstanding citizens. I do believe this is a positive sign for all those Manitobans who did not get what they thought they were getting in 19 99. My advice to our First Minister (Mr. Doer) is to look to Bob Rae in Ontario. Look to the revolving door in the premier's office in British Columbia. Look to the rudderless ship floundering in Saskatchewan. There lies their destiny if they continue to chart the same narrow, ideological course that we saw dominate the last session of this Legislature. Mr.

Sp eaker, I have to say this has been an exciting week. It has been a whirlwind week really for both the new Member for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson) and for myself. Both of us have much to learn about the traditions, the process and procedure in this House, and I know both of us embrace this challenge. I have said outside the House and I will say again here I will make a few mistakes along the way. That will not however stand in my way from making my voice heard and speaking up on behalf of all Manitobans.

There may even be the odd occasion from time to time when we can look beyond our profound differences and support this Governmen t when and if it does something right. One such example, Mr. Speaker, is the extension of maternity benefits to 52 weeks from its present level. This is an issue that all parties should be able to support, and I hope this Government comes back with others that we can unanimously agree on. We want to see something better than the pandering to narrow interests that was the theme of the last session. I have mentioned Manitobans did not get what they voted for in 19 99.

They got a lot of promises, but they did not get any action. This Government had a public agenda, a very thin public agenda that they put forward in their platform and yet a whole other agenda, an entire other agenda seems to have taken over. The NDP's hidden agenda has a very different face from the slick sell job that we got more than a year ago. * ( 15:20) Their recent Speech from the Throne raises further questions about what is it that the NDP are not telling us.

For example, during that summer session the NDP brought forward their anti-business, anti-democratic labour legislation which was nowhere in the last election platform, nowhere in the first Throne Speech and nowhere in their economic summit. They praised the concept of delinking the tax system from the federal system, but nowhere did they say it was because they wanted to keep federal tax savings for themselves, and they tried to steal MPI's surplus for Government operations without any input from the ratepayers who paid for that surplus.

This Government's first-year track record causes me concern over both what I read and what is noticeably missing from this latest Speech from the Throne. They have clearly pushed health care to the back of the bus to the point of nonexistence. Does this mean they are abandoning their ambitious plans for health care? Or does it mean when it comes to health

80 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 7, 2000 care they have no plan? They have pushed out of view all their first-year promises on education. Does it mean that none of the promises were achievable or does it mean when it comes to education they have no plan. They have gone silent on their major promises on family services. Does this mean they have given up on them? Or does it mean when it come to families in need they have no plan? They have fallen strangely silent on the issue of raiding Crown corporation revenues and how they are going to made good on their $20 million promise.

Does this mean they have learned their lesson, or does it mean when it comes to making good on promises they have no plan? They do not address the question of flood compensation or income assistance for farmers. Does this mean they cannot handle the task, or does it mean when it comes to agriculture they have no plan? They hinted very strongly about introducing green taxes during the pre-Budget consultations, yet nothing in the Throne Speech. Does this mean they are hiding another tax grab? Or does it mean when it comes to taxation they have no plan?

They are talking about improving Manitoba's balanced budget law, something they said they would not touch during the last election. Does this mean they want to water it down and make it meaningless, or does it mean when it comes to provincial finances they have no plan? Well, Mr. Speaker, I am not sure if the NDP have a plan, but if they do they are certainly hiding it. Their track record is proof enough of that. The harder the problem, I believe, is that the NDP have no vision for this province and that is a shame. Our party has a very real v1s1on for the province of Manitoba.

Our vision builds on the achievements of those who created this, a great province, and the hopes and dreams of the next generation who want their futures in Manitoba. From the early days, Manitoba could have never survived as a province without neighbour helping neighbour. That has been our party's tradition from the very beginning. People came to Manitoba to find hope, to find compassion, to find economic freedom and to find justice. We must build our policies on the same wave.

Our vision for Manitoba is that of competitiveness and taxes, one where our children are not forced to move to Calgary or Toronto so they can keep more of what they earn. Our vision is for a Manitoba that leads the way through education and economic development, to be at the forefront of the digital economy so that our young people have an opportunity to stay close to home. Our vision is for a Manitoba where the politics of fear are kept away from the bedside so that we can attend to the honest health care needs of the sick and our aging population.

Our vision is for a Manitoba where our communities are safe and more vibrant places for our children, our elderly and ourselves, so we can all take pride in our communities and our surroundings. I am saddened to say that, after 14 months and their second Throne Speech, this Government still has no vision, no plan, or a secret one. Either way, this does not bode well for the people of Manitoba. I have only been a part of this House for a short while, but it is the people of Manitoba I represent here today, and it is on their behalf that I will be proposing the following motion.

I propose, seconded by the Member from River East (Mrs. Mitchelson), THAT the motion be amended by adding to it, after the word "Manitoba." the following words: BUT this House regrets (

a) the Government's inability to fulfill the promises outlined in its Throne Speech of November 25, 19 99, including the following failures: not ending hallway medicine; not addressing the province-wide shortage of health professionals; not strengthening the home care system; not making math and reading skill assessments available to parents at the beginning of the Grade 3 year; not creating positive alternatives for youth who may be at risk of committing crimes; not ensuring a viable future for the family farm in Manitoba; and, not forging a new strategy for economic development; and

December 7, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 81 (

b) the Government's failure to address the challenges facing all Manitobans and their health care system; and (

c) the Government's failure to guarantee to Manitobans that it will not raid Crown corporation surpluses, as was attempted with Manitoba Public Insurance; and (

d) the Government's failure to release long term strategies for economic growth which include meaningful tax reductions for families and business, thereby making Manitoba less able to compete in the national and global economy; and (

e) the Government's failure to provide any meaningful measures to maintain economic growth and stimulate job creation, thereby making Manitoba a less attractive place in which to live, work, invest and raise families; and (

f) the Government's failure to address Manitoba's participation in a national infrastructure program and how these projects will take shape around the province; and (

g) the Government's failure to set forth a plan with clearly defined timelines to address flood protection needs for the Red River Valley and beyond; and (

h) the Government's failure to address the issue of providing adequate and timely compensation to Manitobans affected by the flooding and excess soil moisture conditions in the spring of 19 99 in southwestern Manitoba and the fall of 2000 in southeastern Manitoba; and (

i) the Government's failure to arrive at a national farm safety net program that adequately addressed the needs of the province's farmers; and

G) the Government's failure to address the issues raised by its complete mismanagement of the expansion of gaming through the creation of five First Nations casinos; and (

k) the Government's failure to provide a vision and a plan for the future of this province. AND has thereby lost the trust and confidence of the people of Manitoba and this House. * (15: 30) Mr. Speaker: Order. The amendment is in order. It has been moved by the honourable Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. Murray), seconded by the honourable Member for River East (Mrs. Mitchelson), THAT the motion be amended by adding to it, after the word "Manitoba." the following words: An Honourable Member: Dispense. Mr. Speaker: Dispense? An Honourable Member: No, let us hear it. Mr. Speaker: Read it? Motion presented.

Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, I would like to take the occasion of this Throne Speech debate to welcome to the Chamber both the newly elected Member for Tuxedo (Mrs. Stefanson) and the newly elected Member for Kirkfield Park (Mr. Murray), the Leader of the Opposition. I wish you well in the Chamber, and I hope that despite differences our discourses will be productive, and that, as I say to students when they visit the Legislature, through the fighting with words we will move forward and improve the situation in the province. I would also like to welcome the pages and you yourself, Mr.

Speaker, back to this session. I had the occasion of debating with the newly elected Leader of the Opposition during the course of the election campaign. In fact, we had an annual date. It was on Friday afternoons when we would appear on CJOB when we do debates back and forth with respect to the campaigns. I had a lively discussion and discourse with the member, and I look forward to some future discourses. I, at the time, was not aware of the member's work background and training but I see that he is putting it to good use

82 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 7, 2000 and put it to good use during the course of his first debate in this Chamber. Mr. Conrad Santos, Deputy Speaker, in the Chair Let me return to some of the points of inaccuracy, unfortunately, and some of the facts that are not correct that were put on the record by the Leader of the Opposition and by many members of his caucus during the course of his speech. I was astounded that a pol itical party that voted against the increased enrolment of nurses in Manitoba would have the audacity to criticize this Government for expanding nursing education.

I found it astounding that a party that reduced in half the enrolments of nurses in the province of Manitoba down to 602 nurses 4 years ago would have the audacity to accuse us of not having a human resource plan. I cannot believe it. I find it extraordinary. If the party opposite when they were in power four years ago had not cut the program in half and had only achieved the level of nurse training we have this year, do you know how many more nurses would be trained this year?

Five hundred more nurses would be working today in Manitoba but for the ill-conceived policies of members opposite that cut nursing programs, tried to eliminate the LPN program and then had the audacity to speak out against our nursing program and to vote against it in the Budget. Mr. Deputy Sp eaker, I find that extraordinary. I hope the new Leader of the Opposition checks the record and perhaps talks to members opposite and perhaps they will be able to get their facts straight because they have got it completely wrong.

I find it extraordinary that the Leader of the Opposition would stand up today and criticize us for not having enough doctors in Manitoba. The party, the leader, the movement that cut the number of doctors enrolled in Manitoba eight years ago and drove out more doctors than any other government in the history of the province. Then they had the audacity to stand up and say to us today: What are you going to do about the doctor shortage, the doctor shortage that they created? I find it extraordinary and passing strange to quote.

I note at the back of the Chamber the former Member for Pembina, the former Minister of Health, who I have a good deal of respect for. While I disagreed with some of his initiatives, I had a lot of respect for his intellectual process and his consistency. He will know of some of the issues which I am discussing today, some of which have not changed and some of which that have changed. Let me talk about the issue that members seem to have some difficulty dealing with. Two years ago there was no one in the hallways in Manitoba according to members opposite.

I can remember day after day in the newspaper, patients pleading to the then-Premier, please come and see what is going on in the hallways. I went down, I visited. Were there I 0 people in the hallway? No. Were there 20 people in the hallway? Were there 30 people in the hallway? Were there 40 people in the hallway? Were there 50 people? Yes, 50 people more in the hallway. Day after day, week after week, and members opposite said there is no one in the hallway. The only time they found people in the hallway was when we were elected. When we were elected, all of a sudden there were people in the hallway.

The day the election took place, there were people in the hallway all of a sudden. I find that extraordinary. * (15: 40) This Government has been recognized across the country as having the best job done in ERs across the country, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I do not know which pol itical party they are anymore. I do not know if they are the Conservatives, the Alliance, the Reform party, Conservative-Alliance-Reform party. I do not know what they are, but I do know one thing.

If they look toward Ontario, and they look at the plan that has been put in place by Ontario to deal with their ER situations, they will note something. The plan adopted by the government of Ontario, the Mike Harris government of Ontario, is the same and follows and duplicates the plan that Manitoba effectively implemented last year that reduced the people in the hallway by 81 percent. In fact, we started putting the bed numbers and the hallway numbers up on the website. The critic for Health

December 7, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASS EMBLY OF MANITOBA 83 doing a research found two days when there were more people in the hallway this year than last year, and she put out press releases saying it is a failure because 2 days out of 365 there were more people in the hallway. There were one or two more. We put it up on the Web site. I tell members opposite review that Web site regularly and you will see a decrease of 81 percent. The members opposite talked about in their reply to the Throne Speech about not having expanded home care.

I just got back from a conference in Toronto attended by every province in the country. They only invited one province, one provincial government to that conference, the Governme nt of Manitoba. They wanted to use Manitoba's home care, palliative care program as an example for the entire country. They want to use Manitoba's program as a prototype. Members opposite had the audacity to put in the reply from the Speech from the Throne that we have not expanded home care when we took our home care program and developed the best palliative care program in the country.

If that is what they are taking shots at, I am not very worried about that Opposition party, nor that Opposition Leader. Not only that, but we expanded a variety of supports on home care in the community that had never been done before. We expanded resources, we enriched programs, we provided advanced intravenous home visits. All of that we did in the first year, and the members opposite said: Where is your plan? I say to the members opposite: Read it. Read about it in the papers. Read about it in the national reports that recognize it.

Read about what other governments are doing in this country to duplicate the success that we have had in Manitoba. I am not saying that everything is perfect. There are problems. But I will say one thing. We recognize the problems and we deal with them on a daily basis. The fatal flaw that members opposite exhibited when they were in government was look no problem, see no problem, therefore there were no problems, therefore there were no solutions to the problems of fered by members opposite. That is one of the reasons why we formed government a year ago. We are not perfect.

We will make mistakes, we will not get it all right, but we will try. We will try every day to put in place programs and measures to improve the quality of health care provided to Manitobans. I return to nursing as a prime example. The last time as many nurses were being educated in Manitoba as there are today was around 19 88, 19 89 and 19 90, sort of the ending of the NDP initiatives. Right after that, nursing education went down, down, down. The Opposition critic stands up and says: What are you going to do about nursing? I say to the member opposite you sat as a member of those benches.

You were the legislative assistant to the Minister of Health. Why did you allow them to cut the programs? Why did you not put nurses back in training when we warned you three and four years ago? How do you have the gall to stand up in this Chamber and say we are not doing enough for nursing when we have doubled in one year the enrolment of your low period from 19 96-97? You know, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I just find it incredible that members opposite will get up and criticize us for sending patients to the United States for lifesaving cancer care. I find that extraordinary.

I never talked about it politically but the fact that members opposite would use it as a critical point has forced me to talk about that issue. They stand up and say, oh, your health care system is a failure because you are sending people to the United States. I can advise you that when we came into office and saw what the waiting lists were like, we said that we would send people to the United States to save lives. Do you want to know something?

It is interesting that two of the most popular programs we have instituted, that is, helping people get lifesaving care and the nursing diploma program, are both measures that members opposite speak against and voted against. I think that speaks volumes for the lack of vision on the part of members opposite and for their inability to get over their fixation or their inability to deal with health care for the lowly decade in which the neglect and the cuts occurred in the province of Manitoba.

I find it passing strange that they would stand up and criticize some temporary bed closures that occurred as a result of a shortage of

84 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 7, 2000 nurses when members opposite closed-how many beds did members opposite close? Did they close 100? No. Did they close 500? No. Did they close I 000? No. They closed 1400 acute care beds permanently in the province of Manitoba, and then members opposite have the audacity to stand up and say, gee, you are closing beds on a temporary basis because there are not enough nurses, because, by the way when we were in government we did not train the nurses. Extraordinary, 1400 acute care beds shut down permanently by members opposite. What have we done?

Well, we have opened beds. We have done things like open beds, expand programs, trained professionals. Now, I know that does not sound like a plan to members opposite, because they did not do any of that. They cut and cut and cut. So when you come in and you open beds, you expand programs, you train nurses and educate nurses, you train and educate doctors, to them that is not a program. They say lack of vision. They say no vision. Look at the record. Look at the record for the past year, Mr. Deputy Speaker.

There have been more changes and more positive done-I will admit it is not perfect-in the past year than occurred in the desolate decade of the Tory administration, where they did more to turn back health care than any other time in the history of this province. Do you ever notice how there are some issues the members opposite do not want to talk about? When they were in government they did not want to talk about the hallway situation, they did not want to talk about the nurses, they did not want to talk about the doctors, they did not want to talk about the deterioration in health care.

Now that they are Opposition they want to talk about those things. But do you know what they do not want to talk about? They do not want to talk about SmartHealth. No. They do not want to talk about frozen food. No. They do not want to talk about those things. Why do they not want to talk about those things? Well, you know, Mr. Deputy Sp eaker, they do not want to talk about those things. They do not want to talk about the Auditor's report on frozen food. They do not want to talk about the millions and mill ions of dollars that were sunk into that operation.

They do not want to talk about that, but we will talk about it, and we will take it one step further. We will take that mess, and we will turn it around. We will make it as palatable and better than anything that could have been done, and we will make it palatable. We will live up to our election comm itments. I will tell you something. At the end of this mandate there will not be any more frozen food bouncing from Toronto to Winnipeg and back and forth as was the plan, as was the plan under members opposite. You know, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, what I love about members opposite is that in every question they like to stand up and say apologize, apologize. They do not have any specifics, but they have this big thing about apologies. I actually think that is a layover from the Brian Mulroney era. Brian Mulroney was fixated on apologizing. He loved apologizing. He had to a lot, I must admit. He loved apologizing, but there was nothing plausible, nothing positive done.

The thing I feel most apologetic about is I wish we would have formed government in 1995 and not given them the opportunity to deteriorate and cut the health care system as bad as they did from 19 95 until 1999. * (15 :50) You know, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I find it interesting that a group of individuals who were government for a decade cannot recognize the failure of their plan, and I have the strange sense that because they could not see the problems that occurred when they were government, they are unable to see the solutions that have been offered by members on this side of the House. Again, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, I do not think it is perfect. I do not think that we have all of the answers, but I tell you we have taken more action and more initiatives in one year than they did in a decade of neglect and a in decade of cutting that they undertook. I still want to hear members opposite talk about the Sinclair report. I want to hear members opposite talk about the Sinclair report and about what happened, and I want to hear members offer us their suggestions about the Sinclair report, Mr. Deputy Sp eaker, the most seminal

December 7, 2000 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA 85 report probably done in the province's health care history. I want to hear what members have to say about that. I want to see what members have to say about some of the comments in there. I want to hear members have to deal with some of those issues, because we have to deal with them collec tively, because the effect and the recommendations are wide-ranging and have a dramatic impact upon the future of health care. I want to hear what members opposite have to say about it.

I have not heard a word about the Si nclair report from any member opposite, and I wonder why. I wonder why, Mr. Deputy Sp eaker, not a word. I look forward to some comments on that. You know, I find it interesting that a group of individuals who managed health care so badly and who did as little as they did would then come out and have the audacity to suggest that we do not have a plan, when, in fact, they criticized every measure we undertook in the past year. When we said we would improve and train more nurses, they opposed it. When we said we would expand our home care initiatives, they opposed it.

When we expanded palliative care, they opposed it. When we reduced the user fee in the North, they opposed it. When we promised and moved on dialysis programs, they opposed it. They voted against every single measure in the Budget and every single initiative they spoke against. Now, today, they asked us about doctors. Remember the doctors whom they cut, they asked us to solve the problem. You know what, Mr. Deputy Sp eaker, we will solve it. We cannot do it one year, but we will try to undo in several years what it took a decade for members opposite to implement.

I also find it strange that members opposite would pop up all during last session and talk about emergency measures. Right? Emergency responses, and criticize Government on this side of the House for not doing enough. We did more and put more funding into emergency measures in one year than they did in 11 years of cutting backward, regressive government. In one year, we put more resources in than they did in 11 years, and then they pop up and stand up, and say: You are going to do more for emergency measures. Mr. Deputy Speaker, for a decade they did nothing about ambulances in Winnipeg, for example.

As a result of our agreement, there are six more ambulances on the streets in Winnipeg and thirty-two paramedics. Not only that, there is a program where nurses are not transporting patients from hospitals to other hospitals; they are using paramedics. In rural Manitoba, we are going to have a call centre that locates all 91 1 calls through one centre and we will allocate it. We have put in place-[interjection] No, you did 91 1. We are going to tie in the ambulance and the fire, the whole kit and caboodle. Mr.

Deputy Speaker, we are also providing the resources to increase the number of ambulances available, if memory serves me correctly, by 40, and where did this come out of? This came out of a report that was commissioned by members opposite, one of three reports, at the very end of their government, that we are now moving on to implement. Let it not be said that there has not been activity. There has been more activity in that area than probably, as I said, certainly, any other time in the past 10 or 11 years. Mr. Deputy Speaker, for the first time in a decade we put additional funding into personal care homes.

Not a lot, not as much as I would like, but we put additional for supplies and services and for some staffing. In fact, long-term care facilities and vol untary agencies that did a lot of the work out there in the health care field not only did not receive increases, actually got net decreases over the past decade from members opposite. We put more resources in this year.

I find it passing strange that members opposite say: Geez, you are not doing enough, when in fact we have done more in one year than they have done in a decade; and then they say: And by the way, we want a lot more money in tax cuts back to our friends. They cannot have it both ways. We are trying to balance it, but they cannot stand up on one question and say: Give us all the money back in tax breaks, and then on the next question

86 LEGISLATIVE AS SEMBLY OF MANITOBA December 7, 2000 stand up and say: Spend more here and spend more here and spend more here. You cannot have it both ways. The public knows. The public knows what their record was like. The public will judge them on their record, and I daresay the public is judging them on their record as an opposition which is inconsistent and totally contradictory. Mr. Deputy Speaker, one year ago, December 4, the day before the session commenced, there were 12 people in the hallways. This year there were none.

In 19 98, when members opposite were in government there were 27, and they never acknowledged them. We acknowledged them. We put them up on the Web site. We said we would launch the biggest assault on that issue ever undertaken and we did. We have been recognized across the country as having done the best job. Is it perf ect? I have said it over and over again. No, but the change has been recognized across the country. It has been duplicated by other jurisdictions, and we will not only build on that success, we will do more.

There are additional resources and additional programs and initiatives that are being put in place to continue to deal with that situation. I said, when we came into office, human resources was the biggest difficulty facing us. After a decade of cuts and a decade of disrespect towards people in the health care professions, it is going to take us a while to tum it around. You cannot cut your nursing program in half as they did, lay off a thousand nurses and then stand up in the Legislature and say where are the nurses? You cannot do it in one year.

I mean I do not know how they have the audacity to stand up and criticize us for not doing enough about nursing when we have put in place more nurse education training than in any time in the past decade, and it was they who cut the programs, and the same applies to doctors, and the same applies to X-ray technicians, and the same applies to radiation therapists, and the same applies to virtually every other professional in the health care field. You know, Mr. Deputy Speaker, members opposite stood up and criticized us for not matching or not dealing with radiation therapists.

Well we settled with radiation therapists. They are amongst the highest paid now in the country, and we are managing to retain it. We cannot tum it around because the program was changed when members opposite were in government and we are in a massive shortage, but we are doing what we can. We are doing every initiative possible to try to improve the situation, and I think, and I daresay, I suggest that Manitobans recognize that.

They recognize that there are initiatives, that there are programs that are being put in place that have not been there before. * (16: 00) There was a time, I remember, when Seven Oaks Hospital had a CAT scan and Concordia Hospital had a CAT scan and members opposite would not Jet them operate it. Can you believe that? They would not Jet them operate it. This summer when we found out the CAT scan at Victoria was breaking down and the CAT scan at Seven Oaks, we authorized the purchase of new CAT scans, following a purchase at Health Sci ences Centre, Children's Hospital, Dauphin and Boundary Trails.

So that brings me to another point. It was something that came up during the federal provincial issues and that was how the previous administration had allowed the infrastructure to deteriorate, how badly they had allowed the infrastructure in our province to deteriorate. It was hospital after hospital, institution after institution came to us and talked about the terrible state of the capital and equipment in our system. That is what happens in a decade, a decade of neglect, a decade of cutting, a decade of disregard to the system.

Now members stand up and say, oh, no equipment; we want this, this, this, this and this, when, Mr. Deputy Speaker, for a decade, not only did they do nothing but they allowed it to deteriorate, and all of a sudden they stand up and say, boy, where is that new equipment? Well, I say we put in more resources this year for the upgrades of capital equipment and we will continue to do so. I want to tum to capital. You know I love the former Tory government's approach to capital. In 19 95 before the general election the largest capital program in the history of the province, and you know what? Right after the

December 7, 2000 LEGISLATIVE ASSE MBLY OF MANITOBA 87 election, no more capital program. Switch to 19 99, coincidence? Was it a coincidence in 19 99 that just before the provincial election all of a sudden there was a massive capital announcement? Was that a coincidence? You know we came into of fice and we said we will examine that capital program, and we looked at it project by project, and we did not go ahead with all the projects.

The vast majority we did, but I found it passing strange that members opposite would accuse us of being political, of being political when in fact we put in place an administrative system and a system that did not take into account politics but need. I find it passing strange that our efforts to build Bethesda Home in Steinbach would be pol itical, and I could go on and on and on, but we went by priorities and needs. In terms of capital, as I said, they allowed capital to deteriorate so badly that in fact it probably will take a decade to reinvigorate the capital process. But, Mr.

Deputy Sp eaker, we took steps this year, and we have put in pl ace a capital process that is nonpolitical, that deals with issues, and if members opposite want to talk about that, I would be quite happy to put on the record some of the comments that I have heard about the capital development program by members opposite. The Member for Charleswood (Mrs. Driedger) who was assistant to the Health Minister I think might have been involved in those meetings. So she knows of what I speak in terms of how former administrations dealt with capital issues in a very, very political fashion.

Then, to have the audacity to write to us and say, oh, you are political because a couple of projects were cancelled that happen to be in particular ridings, I thought was an absolute insult, Mr. Deputy Sp eaker, I think below what should actually happen from members. I hope that members opposite will reconsider that position because I frankly thought it was an insult to do that. You know, I thought it was an insult for them to do that. [interjection] You know, I could go down that road because the Member for Charleswood (Mrs.

Driedger) talks about political and political boundaries, which she knows very, very well when it comes to capital, but we try to do it in the most ef ficient administrative fashion, the fashion that looked at need. While we cannot meet all the capital needs and requirements for the people of Manitoba because there has been such a deficit for the past few years, we did try to balance it off and try to prioritize based on a list of priorities. I want to tum briefly to the recent developments in terms of the federal-provincial front vis-a-vis the agreement with the federal government. As I indicated, Mr.

Deputy Speaker, clearly we did not achieve the financial targets that we had hoped to achieve. The funding arrangements are back to 19 94-95 levels without an escalator. I think we could have and should have done a lot better, but in a compromise. In a national system, you have to accept compromise, and we were forced to do that. While we welcome some of the funding that is coming in terms of a more planned basis and gives us some basis to understand on a planned sense what money is coming forward, it is not nearly enough to fill the gap that is required and nec

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	37-2-3
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	37th 2nd hansardpdf 3.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	5cc484aff0f10eb002cee9550b4887dbc78d17ed

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