VOL. 1 PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD NO. 10 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. WEDNESDAY, MAY 26, 1982

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 607 MJ - 1 The House met at 3:00 P. M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : Order, please! ORAL QUESTIONS MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the hon. the Premier could inform the House to what extent he investigated the matter that was raised by my hon. colleague the member for Fogo (Mr. B. Tulk) a few days ago in connection with the possiblility of political interference with the judiciary of this Province? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: If the Leader of the Opposition (Mr.

Neary) is referring to an allegation by the member for Fogo as is related to correspondence by the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. J. Morga~), yes, that has been fully investigated, Mr. Speaker. And I am pleased to indicate to the hon. House that in our opinion there was no interference with the judical system at all.

The Minister of Fisheries has made a complete and full statement to the people of Newfoundland on it, of which undoubtedly the Leader of the Opposition is aware that the .Minister of Fisheries is contemplating taking additional action on his own, as it relates to the allegations made, that the Minister of Fisheries had written the federal Minister of Justice (Mr. J. Chretien) who did take action on the matter brought to his attention by the Minister of Fisheries for Newfoundland ,and it was clearly and unmistakably 1268

May 26, 1982 Tape No . 607 MJ - 2 PREMIER PECKFORO: a matter in which there was no int erference whatsoever with the normal course of justice and it was an action that was completely within the rights of the Minister of Fisheries (Mr . J. Morgan) to ta\e . MR. S. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr . Speaker. MR . SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon . the Leader of the Opposition . MR . NEARY: Mr. Speaker, is the hon. gentla~an telling the House that telexing, wiring a judge of the court is the proper and right prodedure for a minister to take? Is that what the hon . gent leman is telling the House? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD : Mr . Speaker, I never said that and the Leader of the Opposition knows that obviously it is not. The Minister of Fisheries as a member having a problem from one of his 12 68

May 26, 1982 Tape 608 PK - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: constituents did contact the Minister of Justice (Mr. Chretien) in Ottawa who took appropriate action on the matter that was brought to their ateention. And there was no interference with the judicial process by the Minister of Fisheries, the member for Bonavista South (Mr. Morgan) at all. I guess a like kind of circumstance is now before the Parliament of Canada in which the Prime Minister clearly makes a distinction on the matter with his Solicitor General who wrote on behalf of a number of constituents.

The Prime Minister says that the Solicitor General,as an individual in his case the way the Prime Minister put that circumstance - was entitled as a person, as a citizen, to make representation on behalf of his constituents to some lawyers and the documentation was tabled in the court afterwards. In this particular circumstance, if is not exactly similar, tt i$ similar but not to the letter. The Minister of Fisheries in Newfoundland made representation on behalfofa constituent to the Minister of Justice in Ottawa.

And that was a logical, reasonable thing for the member for Bonavista South~ to do on behalf of a consti tnent . MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): A supplementary, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, would the hon. Premier explain to the House then this telex to Judge Steele that was sent on October 6. Can the hon. gentleman tell us how he can explain that? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, obviously the Leader of tee Opposition, the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) is not 1270

May 26, 1982 Tape 608 PK - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: conversant with the statement made by the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan), that it was a copy of a telex that had been sent to the Minister of Justice. And in no way did the Minister of Fisheries wire the judge to ask for any special circumstances to exist in this case on behalf of his constituent, and that the t.elegram that was received by the court was a copy of a telegram that went to the Justice Minister to keep it at the political level and to keep out of the judicial system. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER (Russell): A supplementary, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Do I understand the hon. gentleman corEectly? He is telling the House that the telex then went to Judge Steele was a copy of a telex sent to the Minister of Justice of Canada (Mr. Chretien).Is that correct? I just want to - MR. MORGAN: MR. SPEAKER: MR. MORGAN: Mr. Speaker on a point of privilege. The hon. Minister of Fisheries. Mr. Speaker, I have been sitting here listening to these kind of allegations now for the last five minutes. I was not in the House last week when they were made And, Mr.

Speaker, my statement was made for the public because the House was not in session last Friday. And the statement was quite clear. 1 2 7 '1

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 609 MR. MORGAN: The innuendo being left and the questions now put in the House of Assembly to the Premier is that I made direct representations to a judge of a court. The fact is that a letter was written to Mr. Chretien on behalf of a constituent on the 30th day of September, 1980, and if SD - 1 hon. geptlemen will think back -in fact they can look back and get verification-we had a problem with the mail service, which we have had quite frequently in Canada for the last number of years and because the letter went a number of days and the mail services were interrupted at that time.

In fact I was travelling at the time on the South Coast of the Province with my colleague the member for the area in the Burgeo district. And I recall at the time calling from down in the area, as I said on Friday,and instructing my secretary because of the mail service the letter that had now gone to Mr. Chretien on behalf of a fisherman in Bonavista with a very serious problem where the federal Fisheries Department made a very serious error and paid the man $4,000 they should never have paid him. It was their mistake. He was being taken to court, being surnrnonsed,because of that. So I wrote Mr.

Chretien and the contents of that letter was made public on Friday and is made available to hon. members of the House now. Because of the mail service I called my secretary and said, 'Send a copy of that letter by means of telegram to all parties concerned', which she did. She took the letter that wa~ sent to Mr. Chretien three or four days before, because Mr. Chretien could not get it because of the mail service problem,a copy was sent by telegram to the fisherman in Bonavista, Mr.

Calvin Whiffen, to the District Court - in this case it had to go to someone in District Court; my secretary decided to send it to District Court Judge Steele-and, of course, to Mr. •] 2 7 2

Hay 26, 1982 Tape No . 609 so - 2 MR. MORGAN : Chretien . What was being done was as a resul t of the problem with the mail service. The letter tabled on Frid ay clearly indicated there was no copy going to the judge . It was a letter from me , from minister to minister in ottawa, from mini ~ ter to the minister, wbo in thi~ case was taking the action,· ~.Chretien, the Minister of Justice for Canada who initiated the action on behalf of his colle~gue the Minister of Fisheries (Mr . LeBlanc) from th<lt department taking ac ti on against a fisherman .

So I wrote to the federal ministe .r as a politician to a politician, member of the Bouse of Assembly to the member of Parliament,and minister to minister, asking him to help out with a problem where an injus .tice was being served on a £isherman, tabled and made public In fact, the correspondence was 1 2 7 :i

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 610 NM - 1 MR. MORGAN: to the media, which did not seem to indicate that it was worthy of carrying, some media, especially CBC. I have no hesitation in saying that. The letter was made public, my letter to Jean Chretien on the 30th. day of September, and the reply back from Jean Chretien, the federal minister, who arranged to have the matter taken out of the courts, which he could do, I understand; at l~ast I suppose he could, he did it anyway. Mr. Chretien interferred upon my representation, took the matter out of the courts - MR. STAGG: Intervened. MR.

MORGAN: intervened maybe is the right word, my lawyer friend here, my good and learned friend says intervened-he intervened on behalf of the fisherman that I had asked to have some action taken for. And he had the matter taken out of the court and arranged for correspondence to come back to me from the federal minister, which I made public as well, and asked me to ~ndicate to the fisherman to contact . his agent, the federal government's agent here in St. John's, and that was done immediately. There was no direct correspondence.

My secretary merely took the letter that was sent two or three ·days before and because the letter could not arrive in Ottawa because of the mail strike she sent telegrams of that letter, the same content by phone to CN Telegraph and Telephone, in this case Terra Nova Tel, ~honed in by telegram, the telegram went to all parties concerned, to the federal minister, and a copy going to the judge and the fisherman. And the telegram tabled in the House of Assembly, I understand it was tabled last wee~ by the member for Fogo (Mr.

Tulk),he left the clear impression that I had made direct representation to a judge of the court,that I had interferred with the judicial system. That statement was made outside of the House of Assembly after that, and,as indicated by the Premier, because ~he statement was made outside the House as well as in the House, and the allegation,in my view,was 1 2 i' 4 ()

May 26, 19 82 Tape No. 610 NM - 2 MR. MORGAN: damaging to my character as a minister, as a member, as a person, that I have instructed my lawyers to take legal action accordingly. Mr. Speaker, I take exception to any further innuendo or alleg~tion pe~ng made on this matter without further proof. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : SOME HO~. MEMBERS : MR. HODDER: Hear, hear~ The hon. member for Port au Port. Hear, hear~ Mr. Speaker, I submit that the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) has used the question of privilege to make a statement. Mr.

Speaker, Sir Erskine May says that the privileges o£ ~arliament are rights which are absolutely necessary for the due execution of its powers. They are enjoyed by individual members because the House cannot perform its functions without unimpeded 12 75

May 26,1982 Tape No. 611 ah-1 MR. HODDER: use of the services of its members. I do not think there is a case here, there is a case where any member has been impeded. Beauchesne, Mr. Speaker,

section 17,says, that a question of privilege ought rarely to come up in Parliament. And, Mr. Speaker, Beauchesne,

section 19, says , that''a dispute arising between two members as to allegations of facts, does not fulfill the conditions of parliamentary privilege. Mr. Speaker, I submit that there is no point of nrivilege here and in particular, Mr. Speaker, I. think Your Honour 1 after listening to the exchange between the Leader of the Opposition and the Premier,would concur, I think, that there was no inuendo. That they were just straight­ forward questions put to the Premier and straightforward answers. Mr. Speaker, I submit that there is no point of privilege. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. MR.SPEAKER (Russell): The hon.

President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, there is very definitely a point of privilege. The allegation has been made by the hon. member ~or Fogo (Mr. Tulk) and the allegation is made by imputatio~ in the Question Period by the hon. Leader of the Opposition to the effect that the member for Bonavista South (Mr. Morgan) somehow or other interferr~d with the judicial system by approaching a judge. What has clearly happened, Mr.

Speaker, was that the member for Bonavista South (Mr.Morgan),whilst acting for one of his constituents,merely sent a wire to one of the parties to the action,i.e.,the federal government and the Ministry of Justice. The'e is nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact he was acting perfectly properly 12/'6

May 26,1982 Tape No. 611 ah-2 MR.MARSHALL: and perfectly properly as any member should act in any case. SOME HOM.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.MARSHALL: On the other side of the coin, Mr.Speaker, on the point of privilege, on the other side of the coin the hon. member has been defamed outside the House,and that is a matter for him to take up outside, but inside this House there are privileges of members as well.

And if the hon. gentlemen there opposite wish to make an insinuation that the hon. member is approaching a member of the judiciary with respect to something substantial, with respect to a case and trying to interfere with the proceedings of justice, ·;<,ic:l was the tenor nf the question, that was the privilege, Mr. Speaker, and indeed it was a breach of privilege. It is a very grave breach of privilege by the oentlemen on the other side of the House and in my opinion warrants an apology from the hon. member for Fogo (Mr.

Tulk) and the ·han ·:-Leader of the Opposition for injecting his little bit of poison again in trying to make his imputations through the Question Period. SOME HON.MEMBERS: !-ffi.. NEARY: MR.SPEAKER (Russell): Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker. The Leader of the Opposition. MR.NEARY: To that point of privilege, Mr. Speaker. Let me first of all point out that statements made outside the House by any member are not considered to be questions of privileges so let us put that to rest permanently, Mr. Speaker. 12/'7

May 26, 1982 Tape 612 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, there are no insinuations or accusations being made, these are merely questions that I have asked of the Premier. I think the Premier will agree from the tone of my questions that all I am doing is looking for information. There is no question of privilege, Mr. Speaker. The hon. gentleman can get as emotional as he wants and he can try to protect the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) all he wants, Mr. Speaker. Hon. gentiemen can thump their deskn all they like. All we are doing is looking for - "'R • .MORGAN: Innuenno acr-'l:i.n. MR.

SPEAKER (Russell): Order, please! Order, please! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we are merely looking for information and we would hope that the Premier will answer our questions as we put the questions to him, reasonable questions, fair, square, so that we can get information in connection with this matter. PREMIER PECKFORD: To that point of privilege, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: I feel obliged that I have to respond to what the Leader of the Opposition has said in trying to establish that there is no point of privilege. Well, Mr.

Speaker, when this allegation was made by the member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) last week, the Minister of Fisheries, when he got back into the Province - because, remember, the allegation was made while the member was away, was not in his seat to start with, it was done while he was away, while he was absent so that he could not respond. Then when the Minister of Fisheries got back he did respond, and all he did today was relate all the information that he had already made public. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 12i'B

May 26, 1982 Tape 612 EC - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: Now, all that information is public. Now if the Leader of the Opposition is only interested in asking so-called innocent questions - MR. NEARY: Additional questions. PREMIER PECKFORD: - same questions, Mr . Speaker, innocent question .s, one would have to say all of those questions have been answered by the Minist~r of Fisheries (Mr.

Morgan) in his statement last Friday, so that 1there- fore, one has no alternative but to conclude that the hon. the Leader of the Opposition in posing the questions again today is implying that actions taken by the Minister of Fisheries are not in line with the conduct of a member of the House of Assembly; otherwise, you see, Mr. Speaker, the answers given by the Minister of Fisheries on Friday would have been sufficient to satisfy the Leader of the Opposition.

So that therefore, by continuing to ask the questions,he is imputing, implying that there is something wrong with the information given already by the Minister of Fisheries. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: To that point of privilege. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Let me correct these statements, Mr. Speaker. We are not implying that there is anything wrong, we are merely asking the hon. gentleman for information. That is all we are doing at this point in time, Mr. Speaker. We are not satisfied with the explanation given by the Minister of Fisheries. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: We want to ask the hon. gentleman additional questions in connection with this matter, and this is a very serious matter, Mr. Speaker. PREMIER PECKFORD: Why are you not satisfied? 12 -· q I ,_

May 26, 1982 Tape 613 PK - 1 MR. HODDER: We will let you know in record. SOME HON. ME~~ERS Oh, oh ! MR. SPEAKER RUSSELL) Order, please ! MR. NEARY·: And we have the right, ·unless they are going to try to muzzle us during the Question Period. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! - -- -·--- --- - - MR. HODDER That is ~xactly what they are doing. MR. HORGAN: It is very serious. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, we would hope that the Premier would willingly give us the answers to the·se fair and reasonable questions that we are putting to the hon. gentleman. MR.MORGAN: That is why". MR. MARSHALL Implication open. MR.

NEARY: No implications. No insinuations. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The Chair will take this matter under advisement and make a ruling on it at the earliest possible opportunity. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, would the hon. the Premier inform the House who in the administration conducted this investigation? Did the hon. gentleman do it himself? Did the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimer) conduct the investigation? Who was it that conducted the investigation, who can give us some additional information in connection with this matter? 1 2 g n

May 26, 1982 Tape 613 PK - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, the situation is,from all of the information that I have seen and the correspondence that the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) has provided,it seems quite clear to me after investigating and looking at all of the correspendence,that the Minister of Fisheries was trying to help his constituent in the mormal course of his business as the member for Bonavista South and from what I can find out from the information there was no interference with the course of justice. AN HON. MEMBER: A good member : MR.

NEARY: A supplementray, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Did the hon. the Premier attempt to find out why the dates on the two pieces of correspondence differed? Why one _, the lette~~as dated October 3, and the telex to Mr. Chretien dated October 3 MR. MORGAN: On a point of or~er, Mr. SPeaker. Aaain the hon. gentleman is now - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. MORGAN: On a point of order. - is now putting forward - he is misrepresenting the facts because there was no letter sent on October 3.

I said in the statement on Friday, I said earlier today in this House, the date of the letter on the letter itself was made public. It was September 30. It was not October. And because of the mail service problem at the time, because Mr. Chretien could not get the letter through the regular mail service,there had to be a telegram sent, a further correspondence ~vent by telegram, by my secretary sending a telegram quoting the contents of the letter already gone to Mr. Chretien. There was no letter 1281

May 26, 1982 Tape 613 PK - 3 MR. MORGAN: went in October , so do not put forward the wrong facts in trying to ask the question. MR . SPEAKER (Russell): The hon. member for Port au Port . MR. HODDER: To that point of order, Mr. Speaker. There is no point of order . It is just tbe ~tinister of Fisheries (Mr . Morgan) trying to save his own neck. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh , oh ! PREMIER PECKFORD: If the Leader of the Opposition (~tr . Neary) has additional allegations to make, in addition to 12 i:12

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 614 PREMIER PECKFORD: those already made by the member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk), if he has additional information to provide to me or to this han . House then the Leader of the Opposition is free to do so. Table it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Table them. Table them. Order, please! The Chair rules that there is really no point of order 1 However, I am very concerned about the continuing of this kind of questioning.

A point of J:lrivilege has been raised which the Chair has to rule on eventually and the question seems to be carried on in the same light SD - 1 as the question prior to the point of privilege being raised. MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. The han. Leader of the Opposition. Is Your Honour saying that I cannot pursue this line of questioning? Perhaps Your Honour would like to take five or ten minutes to rule and then we can proceed with the questioning that I consider to be in order, Mr. Speaker.

I do not understand what it is - is Your Honour telling me I can no longer pursue this line of questioning? MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: of questioning? MR. SPEAKER: No, not at this point in time. I cannot pursue this line No . I said that I am not cutting off the hon. member at this point in time. You may continue. MR. NEARY: Okay, fine. Thank you very much. Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Premier then is aware that Mr. P. Betournay with the Department of Justice in Ottawa wired the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) and acknowledged reply to his telex of October 3rd, that was the telex - 12W~

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 614 SD - 2 ?1R. MORGAN: To the federal minister. MR. NEARY: - that was a telex to the federal minister dated October 3rd. ~R. MORGAN: Also a letter sent before that. MR. WARREN: Listen, boy, listen. MR. MORGAN: Innuendo. Do not twist it around. MR. WARREN: Listen, listen. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, would the hon. the Premier tell us why it took three days after - why the telex to Judge Geoffrey Steele took three additional days. The telex to Mr. Chretien was dated October 3rd, 1980 - MR. MORGAN: No telex was sent 6 A telegram, I told you today in my statement to the House. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I have here in front of me a copy of a telex released by the minister that says: "Mr. James Morgan, MHA, Minister of Fisheries"- MR. MORGAN: Yes, from Ottawa. MR. NEARY: - "I am authorized to reply to your telex of October 3rd, 1980". Now the telex that was sent to the Minister of Justice for Canada (Mr. Chretien) is dated October 3rd. 1 and the telex to Chief Judqe _ Geoffrey Steele is dated October 6th. Would the Premier not consider this to be peculiar - MR. MORGAN: There was no telex to Judge Steele. Stop your lies in the House. There was no telex sent to Judge Steele , it was a telegram. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. l'i'AH.:KI.;i~: He is upset. MR. SPEAKER (Russell): Orr:l .e:c, please! MR. MORGAN: Dirty innuendos. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, would the hon. the Premier tell the House if he attempted to find out why there was a three day delay in the telex sent to the Minister 1284

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 614 so - 3 MR. NEARY: of Justice for Canada (Mr. Chretien) and the telex se~nt to Chief Judge Geoffrey Steele? MR. SPEAKER (Russe l l .) : The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr . Speaker, if the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr . Neary) has an allegation to make against the Minister of Fisheries (Mr . Morgan) as it relates to his conduct as a 1285

May 26, 1982 Ta~e No. 615 MJ - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: minister or a member of this House,I would like for him to make it both inside and outside this House. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: Everything that I have seen indicates to me that the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. J. Morgan) was not interfering with the normal course of justice and that the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. S. Neary) ,if he f'a .ils to make an allegation inside and outside this House, istrying to further defame the character and integrity of the Minister of Fisheries. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. S. NEARY: MR.

SPEAKER (Russell): Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Leader of the Mr. Speaker, a point of privilege. Mr. Speaker, Your Honour knows that you cannot attach motives to what hon. members of this House try to do in the performance of their duties,as the hon. gentleman just did, Mr. Speaker. And I ask Your Honour to ask the Premier to withdraw these remarks. They are unpariamentary, completely out of order, unbecoming of the Premier. Here we are merely looking for information and asking questions . .ru--. HON. MEMBER: Say it outside the House . MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, we are asking questions and we are not going to be intimidated or harassed by hon. gentlemen on the other side, Mr. Speaker. And I would ask Your Honour to - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: - Mr. Speaker, I would ask Your Honour to rule on my point of privilege and ask the Premier to 12 d6

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 615 MJ - 2 MR. S. NEARY: >-7ithdraw these remarks. PREMIER PECKFORD: To that point of privilege, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: If I have said anything which in any way impinges on the privileges of this House, I withdraw it unequivocally, I am not interested in trying to say something indirectly that T rannot say directly, I am not trying to impugn motives to anybody. All I am saying to the Leader of the Opposition is put up or shut up. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I accept the Premier's appology and we will let it go at that. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: SOME HON.- MEMBERS: MR. NEARY: Now, Mr. Speaker, did I unders-tand - Oh, oh! Well, they can keep on defending the hon. gentleman all they want and we will keep asking why they are defending the hon. gentleman. We can keep asking the Premier that. Mr. Speaker, would the hon. the Premier tell the House if he indicated a few moments ago, if I read him properly,that the telex sent to Judge Steele was identical to the one that was sent to - MR. MORGAN: ~o telex was sent to Judge Steele. MR. J. HODDER: MR.

NEARY: call it a telegram? MR. MORGAN: MR. NEARY: difference? MR. MORGAN: A telegram. Call it a telegram. Does the hon. gentleman want me to Telegram. Telegram or telex,what is the It was phoned in to CNT,and verified. 1287

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 615 MJ - 3 MR. NEARY: Alright. Well,_Mr. Speaker, would the hon the Premier tell the House if the letter written to Mr. Chretien andthe telegram sent to Judge Steele were identical? 1268

May 26, 1982 MR. MARSHALL : MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. MORGAN: way. MR. SPEAKER: President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Tape No. 616 On a point of order. Order, please~ (Inaudible) by the Order, please~ The hon. NM - 1 Questions, Mr. Speaker, cannot contain imputations or accusations, And the hon. gentleman is, when he is talking about a telegram being sent to Judge Steele he is making, within the context of this Question Period, an imputation and a direct accusation. The fact of the matter is, as he knows, that what inadvertently went to the court was a copy of a telegram to the Minister of Justice (Mr.

Chretien), the Minister of Justice of Canada. There was no telegram to Judge Steele,and he keeps referring to sending a telegram to Judge Steele,and that in my view, and I would submit to Your Honour,contains an imputation ·and an accusation that the hon. gentleman should withdraw. AN HON. MEMBER: Name him. Name him. MR. MARSHALL: If the hon. gentleman wants to pursue lines of questioning like that he is perfectly entitled to do, but in the interest of the reputation of people involved he should be a little bit more concerned with the accuracy of his ' statements. MR. SPEAKER: The hon.

Leader of the Opposition. 12U9

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 616 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, that is not a point of order or a point of privilege, Mr. Speaker. The hon. gentlemen know that this is a matter of public record, that the telegram sent to Judge Steele can be secured, obtained from the court. It is a matter of the record of the court . It is a matter of public record. And we have a copy, Mr. Speaker, itwas tabled in the House, a copy of that telegram, and hon. gentlemen cannot deny that that telegram was sent and it was addressed to Chief Judge Geoffrey L. Steele, and it was sent on October 6th., three days following a Telex sent to Mr .

Chretien. :it<. J.lllA.ri.ShALL: MR. NEARY: ill{. HARSHALL: MR. NEARY: It was a CO !l:? · I beg your pardon? It was a copy. It was a copy of what? That is what I am asking the Premier. I merely asked the Premier Mr. Speake~ p~rhaps yo~ want to rule on that alleged point of privilege first, Mr. Speaker, and then I will come back to my question again. MR. MORGAN: To the noint of order. MR. SPEAKER: To th~ point of order, the hon. Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: To the point of order now on the floor, a point of order on the floor. Mr.

Speaker, it is important,if you are going to be asking questions,that you •j 2 9 iJ ,.,

May 26, 1982 Tape 617 EC ..,. 1 MR. MORGAN: ask questions based on facts that you have. And the han. gentleman has the facts, unless he did not bother to get the facts from the press conference I held on Friday past, and I sent copies of that press conference prepared statement to all members of the House of Assembly. In that same press statement, in fact, there were ,attached copies of the correspondence sent to. the federal minister. •The fact is a letter was sent.

If it were not for the mess in the mail service at the time there would have been no telegram going to Judge Steele because the letter was already sent September 30th, and the same content of the letter went to the fisherma~ concerned, and only the fisherman concerned.

Because of the mail service, a few days after, realizing the letter would not get to the federal minister's office, a telegram was sent to the federal minister and instructions given my secretary that the copies of that correspondence would go to both parties concerned~ and it went to both parties concerned. ~ut direct representation was made on September 30th asking for a postponement of the case, made directly to the federal minister,and asking for his staff- Why would I ask the judge for his staff to contact the fisherman?

That was the content of the telex that we referred to, Asking the judge for the staff of his office to contact the fisherman in Bonavista, the staff of the judge's office. How foolish, Mr. Speaker! The telegram went to the federal minister asking for his staff to contact the fisherman and to contact the federal Department of Fisheries and Oceans and to arrange to have that injustice removed that was ~eing served on that fisherman. Th~t i~ what happened. So why not quote the facts and use the facts? 1281

May 26, 1982 Tape 617 EC - 2 MR . MO_!~ : You do not wan,t the facts. MR. WINDSOR: No concern for the facts. MR. MORGAN: You do not·want the facts. These are the facts. So what does my secretary do? She gets on the phone,naturally 1 and calls Terra Nova Tel and arranged a telegram to go,because I was away from the office at the time.

The same thing I asked the federal minister to do on behalf of the fisherman on the 30th day of September 1 the very same thing I asked him to do, that same copy went to the judge here in Newfoundland asking the staff of his office to contact the fisherman and to arrange for a postpone­ ment. A letter went first 1 a telegram second. Mr. Speaker, it is a clear example of the Opposition trying to weasel around and 1282

May 26,1982 Tape No. 618 ah-1 MR. MORGAN: misrepresent the facts or take the facts and twist the facts and to trv to ~qain CftSt innuendo,· allegati9n again§t me. I make the same statement again, Mr. Speaker . The hon.gentleman who made the allegation last week outside the House I now say the same thing, if these members of the Opposition are going to make these statements in the House, Mr. Speaker, let them make them outside the House as well. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. HODDER: MR. SPEAKER (Russell) : MR. HODDER: Hear , hear! Mr. Speaker. The hon. member for Port Au Port. To that point of order, Mr. Speaker.

I am not going to dwell on thisat leng~h, but what the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) is doing is he is using points of order to make Ministerial Statements in the House. Now we have a number of question that - MR. MORGAN: You are abusing'tne question period. MR .. HODDER: We cannot even get out questions out. We have a number of questions that we have to ask and have yet to ask and we intend to ask them. If the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) will stop abusing the rules of the House and just let us get our questions out then perhaps we will get some answers. MR.

NEARY: If he does not like the heat let him get out of the kitchen. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. MORGAN: You won bv 42 votes the last time. I will be around when you are gone. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! 1233

(; May 26,1982 Tape No. 618 ah-2 MR. SPEAKER (Russell ) : I refer hon . members to page 129 of the 5th edition of Beauchesne which gives a list of questions an d that should not be asked and things that should not be contained in questions. I must agree that some of the questions that have been asked by hon. members to my right do seem to be a little out of order and I would caution them to maybe rephrase their questions. MR.NEAR~: Mr. Speaker, let me ask the hon. Premier a direct question. Is the letter sent to Mr. Chretien identical to the telex sent to Chief Judqe Geoffery L. Steel - or telegram? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, the reasonable explanations provided by the Minister of Fisheries (Mr . Morgan) convinced me that he had no intention,nor in fact interfered with the normal judicial process in this Province. SOME HON .MEMBERS: MR.SPEAKER: has expired. MR . NEARY: tomorrow. Hear, hear! The time for the Question Period Well we will go back at it NOTICE OF MOTION MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. PREMIER PECKFORD: It is fa{r and reasonable and you know it is fair and reasonable, but you are just lookinq for dirt. SOf1 .E HON. MEMBERS : PREMIER PECKFORD: MR.

SPEAKER: SOME HON .MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: Oh, oh! You are the low road. Order, please! Oh, oh! Order, please! 1 2 9 it

May 26,1982 Tape No. 618 ah-3 MR.SPEAKER (Russell): hon. Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: The Chair has recognized the Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that the House resolve itself into a 1295

May 26, 1982 Tape 619 PK - 1 DR. COLLINS: Committee of the Whole on Ways and Means to consider the raising of supply to be granted to Her Majesty and I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on Supply to consider certain resolutions for the granting of supply to Her Majesty. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. SPEAKER (Russell): It being Private Members' Day,we are back to Motion No. 43. I think the hon. member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder} adiourned the debate last day. MR. HODDER: Mr.

Speaker, I believe the last time I was talking on this particular motion, which is a motion on unemployment, the point that I was making and which the resolution makes itself,is that we must look at all parts of this Province if we are to combat unemployment. We must especially look at the areas of high unemployment,of which there are a large number across the Province, I might add, a growing number across the Province, Mr. Speaker.

And if we are to combat unemployment in the Province we must particularly­ and I believe this motion in one of the Whereases pointsit out specifically,that we should look at the areas of high unemploymen~ and perhaps target those areas for special programmes in conjunction with the federal and provincial governments so that these troublesome areas in the Province,once the problem is corrected 1 perhaps we can learn lessons and experience from those areas that would help us in areas of lesser employment. Not, Mr.

Speaker, in any way do I suggest that we should ignore certain areas, but areas of high unemployment should be targeted. Mr. Speaker, we must develop all parts of the Province where the economy is bad 1286

May 26, 1982 Tape 619 PK - 2 MR. HODDER: because if this Province is going to be strong and economically viable in the next ten years,then we must attack the weak points. Mr. Speaker, this,in my belief,has not been done. 1237

May 26, 1982 Tape 620 EC - 1 MR. HODDER: There was a task force report in the Roddickton area. Some of that report has been implemented but still the problem persists. The Bay d'Espoir area is another area of high unemployment. In the Bay St. George area, which is represented by the Minister of Transportation (lrr. Dawe) and the member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) and by myself,is another trouble­ some area in the Province and I understand, as well, Mr. Speaker, the Coast of Labrador has large and vicious unemployment figures. But, Mr.

Speaker, there has been no move by the provincial government, nothing to try to overcome or even to look at the problems. Now, Mr. Speaker, in the Bay St. George area, which covers the district of St. George's, the district of Stephenville and the district of Port au Port, a DREE study was done there some four or five years ago, and,to my knowledge, ~tt. Speaker, none of the suggestions made in that report - indeed I believe that there has been really no public discussion on that report except for the couple of times that I have mentioned it in the House of Assembly.

I would like to see the government find the reports and the studies that have been done in those parts of the Province and to look at them to see what can be done. Because, Mr. Speaker, where you have an area with a poor economy --and there are ways, whether they be through the fishery, ~~rough minin9 -, and when there are resources in those areas ~then I think it is incumbent upon the government to make sure that these resources are exploited, whether it be the fishery or whether it be mining 1 that they are exploited to their greatest potential.

In the past three or four years since this administration has been in power, 1238

May 26, 1982 Tape 620 EC - 2 HR. HODDER: I have seen a total disregard for the smaller things. It is as if their minds were beyond - I think one of o~ columnists, Ray Guy, says, "The one big thing". we have been forgetting about the small things. I think the last day that I spoke I mentioned examples in my own district where roads to multi-million dollar facilities,placed there by the federal government, have been impassable, where fisheries access roads - where three years ago, 128g

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 621 NM - 1 MR. HODDER: two years ago there was $35,000 in the budget for fisheries access roads across the Province where the fishery could be - MR. MORGAN: Ask Romeo for it, boy. Ask Romeo for it. MR. HODDER: That is the answer from the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan), "Ask Romeo " MR. MORGAN: Romeo will help you. MR. HODDER: Romeo has helped me out as a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker. A number of the fisheries access roads which come under the Minister of Fisheries, · when I wrote him letters he refused to do those roads, or gave excuses not to do them.

I went to Small Craft Harbours and t~ey did do them, and they did them properly. MR. MORGAN: Want them done aqain. MR. HODDER: So do not the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) talk to me about what happens with the fisheries. Because the Minister of Fisheries is the biggest disaster that ever happened to the fishery. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. HODDER: fisheries in my district. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. HODDER: Hear, hear~ I can only speak for the Hear, hear~ BecausP- I do not know ~hP fishery on the South Coast or on the Northeast Coast. There are members on t~i~ side of the House that do. MR. WARREN: Watergate. MR.

HODDER: I know, Mr. Speaker, that this Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) - MR. CALLAN: (Inaudible) ~he Public Accounts Committee asked you to do last year. ·1 3;:: il

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 621 NM - 2 MR. HODDER: This Minister of Fisheries will not even turn up to fishermen's meetings in the district of Port au Port. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please~ MR. WARREN: Watergate. MR. HODDER: All he knows, Mr. Speaker, is'blarne it on Leblanc! Well,I will tell you what Leblanc did out in Po~t au Port: Leblanc put a $2.5 million facility in Port au Port, but the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) cannot put a road to it. Anc,Mr. Speaker, that road has been so bad this year that they cannot get down there half the time.

So that is "'hat the Minister of Fisheries did. MR. MORG.II .. N : Look at the (inaudible) you are getting. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I would not waste my time on the Minister of Fisheries. The Minister of Fisheries is a lost cause - MR. CALLAN: Here is a summons. MR. HODDER: - and if the Premier had any sense, regardless of his writing and his hiring practices, and his telexes to the judges, regardless of that - MR. NEARY: And breaking the Public Tendering Act. MR. HODDER: - and breaking the Public Tendering Act, regardless of all that I wonder ~Thy the Premier has any - MR. NEARY: wny he defends him.

MR .• HODDER: - has any defence of that minister ? ~But regardless of that, he is a terrible Minister of Fisheries. He is doing nothing. All he can do is talk and blame. But there are things that minister can do for the fisheries. MR. WARREN You got ~o take the minister of fisheries til~s time. MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, he seems to be a little bit touchy today, the Minister of Fisheries. 1 3 ;j 1

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 621 NM - 3 MR . WARREN : Why, I wonder ? MR. HODDER: Because I had just referred to a road that went to a multi -million dollar facility and the minister went off his head. MR. WARREN : He is awful touchy. MR . HODDER: so touchy . MR. WARREN : Yes . Why, I wonder ? I wonder, .Mr. Speaker , why he is What is the reason? What is the reason? Is there a Watergate cover up or what? Is there a Watergate on the go? There is a Wa tergate on the go, is it? 1 3 ;j 2

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 622 SD - 1 MR . HODD ER: What is he saying? MR. STAGG: (Inaudible) your father. MR. HODDER: What are you saying about my old man? MR. WARREN: Must be a Watergate on the go or something. MR. HODDER: Did you say something about my father. Did you have a comment on him? MR. SPEAKER (Aylward): Order, please! MR. HODDER: If vou want to say it - MR. STAGG: Are vou staying with your father in St. John's? MR. HODDER: No, I am not, I am sorry. I stay in an apartment in St. John's. Does that have something to do with my speech? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I wish to remind the hon. member for Port au Port (Mr. Hodder) that when he is speakin~ · in debate he is to address the Chair. MR. NEARY: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A point of order, the hon.the Leader of the Opposition. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if Your Honour would instruct the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) to observe the rules of the House and restrain himself while my hon. colleague is speakin0. MR. MORGAN: Now thin majnritv 'Meary'. MR. NEARY: If we are going to have the rules - MR. MORGAN: Thin majority 'l'ileary'. MR. WARREN: (Inaudible) MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.

NEARY : - of the House enfor ced, Mr. Speaker, it is tit for tat, what applies to one side applies to the other,and I would ask Your Honour to instruct the Minister of "13 0 3

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 622 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: Fisheries to restrain himself while my hon. colleague is making his speech. MR. MORGAN: Landslide 'Neary. i· MR. WARREN: Ah, ha. You are a~·rful touchy. MR. SPEAKER (A;Llward) : I wish to remind members - MR. SIMMS: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, the hon. Minister of Culture, Recreation and Youth. MR. SIMMS: The hon. Leader of the Oppostion (Mr. Neary) lmows _ full well that what he has raised is not a point of order.

It is certainly not his place nor my place nor anybody else' s place to direct Your Honour as to whom you should instruct to do what, I am sure Your Honour is quite capable of doing that.-. And that certainly is not a legitimate point of order the hon. Leader of the Opposition has raised. SOME HON. MEMBERS : ~fear , hea:r ! n"R. rnr.T.TNS, The leader has been . overruled. MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please!· To that point of order, I rule that it is not a point of order but I would wish to remind hon. members on both sides of the House that when an hon. member is speaking he has the right to be heard with the silence of all other members in the House. The hon. member for Port au Port. MR. HODDER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Since I only have about thirty seconds left I would like to say this, that I had a number of things that I wanted to say at this particular time, Mr. Speaker.· I wanted to talk about Labatts and the mismanagement of that particular fiasco, and I will, Mr. Speaker.

I also wanted to talk about the lack of imagination and about some of the development groups we have around this Province,including some of the Hunicipal Dev~J.nn)ll~n+ nffit::<;>:c" and the Rural Development policies 1 3 ;j i~

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 622 so - 3 MR. HODDER: of this government . I wanted to talk about oil development on the West Coast and perhaps throw a few questions across to the other side as to where their aims are and what they are trying to do. But, Mr. Speake .r, the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) - MR. NEARY: The arroaant. MR. HODDER: MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : that his time has elapsed. SOME BON. MEMBERS: SOME BON . MEMBERS: MR . HODDER: - because I happened to mention - Order , please! I wish to inform the hon. member By leave. Oh, oh. But, Mr .

Speaker, the Minister of Fisheries. because he is so touchy- it is below the dignity of the minister even~behaving the way he has . PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEA .KER: The hon. the Premier. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Bear, hear ! PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I would like to have a few words to say on this resolution 1 3 ;_; 5

May 26, 1982 Tape 623 PK - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: placed on the Order Paper by the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush). And I think it is important that we deal with this kind of resolution early ·on in the session. It is a very important resolution, and,I think,one that commands the attention of all hen. members. The resol~tion is:

WHEREAS tne Province of Newfoundland and Labrador has the highest unemployment record in Canada; AND

WHEREAS there fire a number of areas in the Province where the unemployment figures are far beyond the Provincial average, · let alone the national average; AND

WHEREAS many areas of the Province de~end on a single resource; AND

WHEREAS the resources already known and available to our Province could, if properly developed,provide full and permanent employment to everyone in the growing Newfoundland and Labrador labour force;-a bit questionable BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that th±s House fully debate all aspects of Resource Development in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador; AND BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the government target areas of high unemployment with a view to producing a plan for joint Federal/Provincial co-operation aimed at improving the economy of those areas and to creating long-term jobs for unemployed residents of this Province.

Mr. Speaker, I totally,absolutely, 100 per cent endorse this resolution. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! ~REMIER PECKFORD: This is a good resolution, a fantastic resolution, and one that members on this side of the House fully endorse. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 1 3 :j 6

May 26, 1982 Tape 6.23 PK - J PREMIER PECKFORD: Now, Mr. Speaker, one part of the resolution deals with trying to target areas where there is a problem and where there is a resource. There is a lot of discussion so far toda~ since three o'clock,about the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.Morgan), What is the Minister of Fisheries doing? He is the worst Minister of Fisheries, ~P is not doing his job, and all of these things. And he is not targeting and trying to help communities where there is some unemployment,get into the fishery~ Mr.

Speaker, I would like to know what han. members opposite would say about what we as a government are doing to live up to this resolution through the Minister of Fisheries. Number one, there was a $1.3 million loan guarantee for working capital to P. Janes and Sons Limited SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: - affecting their operations at Rant's Harbour, Salvage, and Jackson's Arm. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: That seems to me like action by the Minister of Fisheries. That seems to me like targeting money from government to areas where you have a resource that can be developed.

How about a $450,000 guarantee for working capital to Greenspond Fish Producers Limited of Greenspond,in the great historic district of Bonavista North?. That seems to be something that the Minister cf Fisheries has done in the last two or three months. How about a total of $5 million in equity funding and working capital provided to the Lake Group Limited affecting their operations -where? At Baine Harbour,Bide Arm,on the Great Northern Peninsula, Bonavista, Cook's Harbour on the Great Northern Peninsula, Englee, Fermeuse 1 13u7

May '26, 19 82 Tape No. 624 MJ - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: Gaultois, Grand Bank, Main Brook and Fortune. That sounds to me like action to deliver iobs to rural Newfoundland. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: What a Minister of Fisheries (Mr. I J. Morgan) we have. MR ... W~ .CALLAN.: Was this done during the election campaign? PREMIER PECKFORD: It was done before the election campaign, long before the member forBellevue (Mr. w. Callan) realized what was goinq on in relation to ,election campaigns. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (~ylward) : Order. Order, please! PREMIER PECKFORD: Now, Mr.

Speaker, you ruled a few minutes ago that while a member is speakinq he should be able to be heard in silence. So I will askthat the same couresty be provided to me nm•r from members of the Opposition, who w~re complaining about it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! PREMIER PECKFORD: Two wrongs do not make a right. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: A $150,000 loan guarantee for working capital was provided toW. J. Burton, Newfoundland Ltd., of Brig· Bay, througp the - Minister of Fi~heries, to help target and to make sure that jobs were available.

A $300,000 loan guarantee for working capitalwas provided to Clarenville Ocean Products Ltd. affecting their operations at Clarenville, Leading Tickles and Heart's Desire. That seems like an attempt by the government,through the Minister of Fisheries,to help rural Newfoundland and to create jobs for the Spring and Summer and Fall in the fishing industry. 13 iJ 8

May 26, 1982 ' Tape No. 624 MJ - 2 MR. DI.NN: 8,000 direct jobs. PREMIER PECKFORD: How about the $150,000 loan guarantee to Petty Harbour? How about the loan guarentee to Triton Seafoods Ltd. in the great historic district to Green Bay, for example. A $2.5 million loan guarantee to help get a stern trawler for Ocean Harvesters in Harbour Grace, which is now providing hundreds of jobs to the people of Conception Bay who hithertofore did not have jobs early in the Spring because they did not have fish into their fish plant. The Minister of Fisheries (Mr. J. Morgan) did that, Mr. Speaker. The Minister of Fisheries.

The much maligned Minister of Fisheries. SOME HON. MEMBERS: SOME HON. MEMBERS: PREMIER PECKFORD: going to get away with that. Hear, hear! Oh, oh! Oh no, Mr. Speaker, they are not How about the $3 million guarantee for working capital to John Penney and Sons in Ramea? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: How about that fora Minister of Fisheries? How about the $150,000 loan guarantee to Eric King Fisheries Ltd. affecting their operations at Burnt Island and Codroy i MR. DINN: Where is Burnt Island? PREMIER PECKFORD: Where is Burnt Island? In the Leader of the Opposition's (Mr. S.

Neary) district, I dare say. MR. DAWE: knew not~ing about it? SOME HON. MEMBERS: PREMIER PECKFORD: And the Minister of Fisheries Oh, oh! And in Codroy. Is that an attempt by the government to respond to this kind of resolution, Mr. Speaker? I submit to this Chambre that the Minister of Fisheries 1.3 0 9

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 624 MJ - 3 PREMIER PECKFORD: as one minister in the government,who has gone out of his way to try to ensure that as many areas can be targeted as is possible,to create jobs in those areas 1 3 1ll I

May 26, 1982 Tape 625 EC - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: where there is a resource to be developed like the fishing industry. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: A $250,000 loan guarantee for working capital to Tor's Cove Fisheries, done by the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan), a $50,000 loan guarantee to Aquaforte, a $2 million guarantee in loans and loan guarantees to Cape Pine Fisheries for the purchase of Newfoundland Quick Freeze plants, plants at Witless Bay, St. Bride's and Petty Harbour. Not a bad job by the Minister of Fisheries!

Not a bad job!- $695,000 in loans and loan guarantees provided to Atlantic Fisheries for the purchase of Newfoundland Quick Freeze plants at Dildo and Admiral's Beach. Not a bad job by the Minister of Fisheries, Mr. Speaker! A $50,000 loan guarantee to the little quick freeze plant that is at Branch that is now going full blast, the $2 million loah guarantee to National Sea Products at Burgeo toensure the continued viability of that community which depends on a single resource, the fishery. That is a pretty good job by the Minister of Fisheries.

Hermitage and Belleoram, where we put money forward, down in the Fortune - Hermitage district, a $50,000 loan guarantee to Great Harbour Deep to keep their little plant going in Harbour Deep, a $200,000 loan guarantee to Flower's Cove and Sandy Cove down in the Strait of Belle Isle district, down in the district of the absent member who comes every now and then to speak and to dispense his wisdom and then go off and not attend the House anymore. Sounds like a good idea, a Liberal district, Mr. Speaker. We are concerned about all districts in the Province, Liberal and P.C. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 1 3 l 'I

May 26, 1982 Tape 625 EC 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: Unfortunately, of course, there are a lot more districts on this side that have to be financed than on the other side, and I dare say - somebody, a Liberal, told me this morning, "Mr. Premier, I am some glad you called the election when you did ,because if you called the election today there ,.,.ould be nobody on the other side ." MR. DINN: That is right. PREMIER PECKFORD: That is what a Liberal told me this morning. At 12:00 noon, a Lib eral, a good, well­ known Liberal 1 3 i 2

May 26,1982 Tape No. 626 ah-1 PREMIER PECKFORD: in this Province told me that if there was an election called today there would not be anybody left over there · and' I would not want to see that. I would not want to see that, Mr .Speaker. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Oh, oh! PREMIER PECKFORD: A $100,000 loan ~uarantee for working capital was provided to Smith's Seafoods Limited of Chance Cove,in the hen. member's district over here. t ~"'.:i.s hen. member over here who is always talking about what we are not doing in Liberal districts,-when we have just provided $50,000 to keep a fish plant going in Chance Cove , Mr.

Speaker. So if you are going to look at this resolution with some objectivity, Mr.Speaker, you would have to say that today's Question Period and the statements made afterwards by the member for Port Au Port (Mr. Hodder) in trying to malign the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) and what he is doing as the Minister of Fisheries-let me say that the Minister of Fisheries has just secured the jobs of 7,906 plant employees in this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear!

PREMIER PECKFORD: He has helped thirty-eight communities and provided over $20 million worth of money to ensure that the inshore fishing industry in this Province is alive and well in 1982. Not bad, not bad for a Minister of Fisheries who the members on the Opposition are trying malign. The Minister of Fisheries, Mr. Speaker, is doing his job and doing it very well on behalf of the people of his district and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. Make no mistake about that. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 1 3 •j 3

('; May 26,1982 Tape No. 626 ah-2 PREMIER PECKFORD: Now, Mr. Speaker, that is the fishing industry and we are trying to deal as well as we can with that.,And that $20 million nemon~trates a commitment by the Jrovince, aY the way, Mr. Speaker, a commitment by the Province that was put in place long before the federal government will ever put a dollar forward. Who put the $5 million forward to the Lake Group? Who was it who helped the Lake group out when they were in trouble first off, an offshore fishincr company? And where is most of the jurisdiction?

In Ottawa with the federal government, And this poor little ProvincP nut $5 million forward in equity to keep the Lake group going while the other people in Ottawa were procrastinating and trying to make a decision about the Lake group. That is who put it forward. The Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) put it forward. And now, Mr. Speaker, that is the fishing industry and we are trying to deal with it and we will continue to try and deal with it. What are we doing in other areas of the Province? In the Bay D'Espoir area,which was talked about 1we began developing the Upper Salmon project.

And who is getting work on the Upper Salmon project? Mr. Speaker, who is it? Are the people who are nearest 'to the Upper Salmon project getting the jobs or is it somebody from outside , somewhere else in the Province or somebody from the Mainland? No, Mr. SpeakerrSven though hon. gentlemen on the onnn~it~ side and the Federation of Labour and others in this Province have tried to malign our internal local preference and our externa] . local preference, the people who ar~ cretting the majority of jobs at the Upper Salmon are people in Bay D'Espoir,who are closest to that resource.

That is what we are doing for Bay D'Espoir. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: Eighty-five per cent of them at the Upper Salmon project are people from B .. ay D 'Espoir, 1 3 I 4

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 627 NM - 1 PREMIER PECKFOR~· and they are workin~ hard and doing a good job on bringing onstream a very valuable hydro resource which will help keep power rates at a lower level than if we had to go with another unit at Holyrood. That is a pretty good task, $80 million or $90 million going into that hydro project. And now, Mr.

Speaker, we are over at Cat Arm, a very difficult terrain, difficult typography, developing a very, very major hydro resource, 110 or 120 megawatts of power, a big, big power project in which we are trying to hire people 'f'rom thP. 1ocRl area, Jackson's Arm, Sop's Arm, Pollard~ Point.'HamQden, and The Beaches, and that area, and on out into Howley, and Deer Lake, and over into the Corner Brook area, and up to Rocky Harbour and Norris Point in the Bonne Bay area, and then across the Island as we go looking for more workers.

And we will have 700 or 800 people working there this Summer or more, working on that very, very important hydro project, which 1when it is all completed,is going to cost a lot of money, but which is still cheaper. It is labour intensive.

We could have very well stopped the Cat Arm and taken a very short-sighted view and tried to go with coal or oil, We could have gone with oil fired which would be cheaper perhaps in the first one or two years, but over the life of the project, and for many years to come, the Cat Arm will be a valuable asset in keeping electricity prices more stable than they would otherwise be if we had to ao with some alterna~iv~ proaramme. Ricrht now, Mr. Speaker, in Bay d'Espoir as well,we have a FESP programme,through the Minister of Forest Resource and Lands (Mr.

Power),where we are trying to weed out through silva-culture, weed out the old overmature timber and cut down the bug-infested timber, providing jobs to the people of Bay d'Espoir. I do not know how many jobs over the last few years that it has created in Bay d'Espoir, 1 3 j 5

May 26, 1982 PREMIFR PECKFORD: r.m . ANDREWS: PREMIER PECKFORD: Tape No. 627 100 or 150 jobs. 250. 250 jobs in Bay d'Espoir, NM - 2 based upon a resource that is in Bay d'Espoir, like -this resolution calls for. Mr. Speaker, the problem with this resolution is simply this, that the Opposition suddenly looked around the Province and saw all the wonderful things that the government was doing and made up a resolutio~ based upon our achievements. That is what they did, Mr. Speaker. That is what they have done, made up_a resolution based upon our achievements. SOME HON. MEMBERS: hear, hear!

PREMIER PECKFORD: So the long and short of it is as '!OU look at the forest industry we are into replanting right now, planting trees. Out in my district today, in the last couple of weeks over on the West Coast, all over the Province where there is a significant forestry resource,we have people planting trees .. '"Women. young people who are looking for jobs, providers ~n the family are out planting trees, some of them under contract to the Department of Forest Resources and Lands. A fantastic way to both help the resource, a renewable resource, and yet provide jobs for our people. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear!

PREMIER PECKFORD: And we have helped the paper companies in their access road programme, as has the federal government, and in their modernization programme, us and the federal government, as well,involved. And we are modernizing those plants, we are doing silva-culture, we are putting in access roads, and we are doing reforestation. And it is creating jobs in those parts of the Province where 1 3 i 6

May 26, 1982 Tape 628 EC - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: you do have a significant ' forestry resource. That is not bad, Mr. Speaker, for a government, according to the Opposition, that is doing nothing. And then we announced, Mr. Speaker, before the election and during the election, a four or five phase programme to try to help economic recovery, and we reduced all the housing lots around the Province, especially in rural Newfoundland. We reduced all the housing lots to try to get th~ selling, so that people would build houses and buy lumber and keep the sawmillers going and keep the building material stores going.

And that Housing Lot Subsidy programme is going to cost us $2 million or $3 million this year. It is going to cost us millions of dollars to implement that housing programme if it gets off the ground and people begin to buy these housing lots. We have announced and put into operation - I do not know how much money it is now, close to $30 million in water and sewer early tender calls to try to get people who are now on unemployment insurance into the labour force. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: Water and sewer projects all over the Province, Mr. Speaker, $30 million.

That is in addition to the $20 million in fishery incentives, that is in addition to the $90 million on the Upper Salmon, that is in addition to the $300 million at Cat Arm, that is in addition to the millions of dollars in the forestry stimulation programme. And on highways, Mr. Speaker, we are into a roads programme, an early pre-tendering roads programme which is going to involve $20 million or $25 million on top of all the millions I have just mentioned, which is going to create jobs in 1 3 i 7

May 26, 1982 Tape 628 EC - 2 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: rural Newfoundland and get some of our construction workers back to work. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! PREMIER PECKFORD: Well, Mr. Speaker, when one looks around at the problem created by the federal government which is now trying to escape away from its monetary policy - it is very interesting, Mr. Speaker, what we see happening in Ottawa these days. We had Mr. MacEachen,when the Premiers were in Ottawa a number of months ago to an economic summit and they had Mr. Bouey in, and Mr. Bouey and Mr. MacEachen and Mr.

Gray gave us a great lesson in Milton Friedman's monetary policy, that this had to be practiced, that this was inevitable, that we had to go along with high interest rates, we had -to restrict the money supply as the chief vehicle to combat inflation and there was no other way around it. And Mr. Trudeau and Mr. MacEachen, we all argued with them. Premier Lougheed argued with them, I did, Premier Davis, that there was another way around it, and we presented our proposal.

Funny thing now, this very government that has caused a lot of our economic woes and high interest rates which are stopping housing development, Mr.

MacEachen now goes to Paris and the OECD and tries to lay the foundation for a flip-flop by the federal government which will occur in about August or September because they are in political trouble. ~o,now,they cannot do a flip-flop right away and bring interest rates down so that we can stimulate the economy directly because it would look like a real flip-flop, So what they are going to do now, of course, is gradually and gingerly move away from that monetary policy. So we will hear the Prime Minister now when he goes to Paris and other places, to the OECD meeting 1 3 i 8

May 26, 1982 Tape 629 PK - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: next month or in July, aligning himself with Chancellor Schmidt and aligning himself with President Mitterand on this whole business of attacking Reganomics and attacking the monetary policy, come back to Canada and in August or September you will see this great flow of money and this great flip-flop by the Government of Canada to try to regain some of their political popularity by abandoning the approach that they have taken to date on monetary policy and keepinq interest rates hiah.

If there is one single thing that is the greatest negative factor in the economy of Newfoundland and Canada today, it is hiah interest r~te~. It is the one thing that the federal government can do - has power over to d~ to stimulate the economy of Canada - other countries have done it, other countries have done it and done it very successfully-and allow your currency to float a little bit. There they are sacrificing millions and hundreds of millions of dollars every day to keep it up to eighty-one or eighty-two cents. What is magic about seventy-nine cents? What is magic about it? Nothing magic about it.

You have to be masters of your own destiny. Schizophrenic is what the federal government are. On the one hand they are talking about a very national energy programme, 'Yankee . Go Home, foreign investor go home through FIRA unless you want to go through an extensive red tape piece of business:which everybody is af~aid of. On the one hand they are nationalistic. You do not have to own something to control it is my araum~nt -, you do not have to own something to control it. A parliament is all powerful and therefore it can take means that it wants to do.

And on the other hand then, on the other hand Canada says, 'we do not want to learn anything more from the United States, we have learned plenty. ~Je want to be masters in our own house'. And so they do that 1 3 I 9

May 26, 1982 Tape 629 PK - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: on the national energy programme, then they . turn around and adopt the financial and monetary policy of the United States. So they are schizophrenic. If they are going to be consistent they should also have their own ·1 3 2 n

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 630 SD - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: fiscal and monetary policy along with their national energy programme and be truly independent of the United States. They could do it if they really wanted to but,obviously,they do not have the nerve or the gumption so to do. But in any case, Mr. Speaker, when one looks at this resolution I am very, very proud to report to the han. member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush) and to other han. members opposite that we are putting forward $300 to $400 million this year to stimulate the Newfoundland economy, to try to get the old engine moving. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear.

PREMIER PECKFORD: More can be done,but it is out of our capacity to do if the federal government would only I agree to adopt more realistic policies in tune with Canada. You see the big problem that the federal government has is simply this, that a monetary policy can work in the United States because it is a free market economy.

We do not have a free market economy as such in Canada, it is a hybrid, it is a transitional kind of thing, it is half private half public and, therefore, strict monetary policy does not work to the same extent, to the same degree, as quickly as it does in the United States,because they are a complete,free economy, and: therefore,you cannot apply then the same measures for corrective action to our economic ills as you can to the United States.

So it is time for the federal government to get its house in order to do the kinas of measures that we are trying to do down here so that we can further stimulate the economy and get people back to work. We are doing our part, Mr. Speaker, and tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow keeps on this petty pace from day to day and all our yesterdays. Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker, the hon. members will see and the people of Newfoundland "1 3 2 1

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 630 SD - 2 PREMIER PECKFORD: will see how responsible and active, innovative and creativ e ;-;e are in continuing to do more things than we have done today to stimulate the economy of this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (A ylward) : Hear, hear! Order, please! Before I recognize the hon. Leader of the Opposition (Mr . Neary) I would like to welcome to our galleries ten Library Assistants from the Stella Maris Central High School of Trepassey with their teacher ,and a good friend of mine , Mr. Ted Winters, from the district of St .

Mary's -The Capes , the home town of the member for Burin- Placentia West (Mr. Tobin) . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear ! MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: The hon. Leader of the Opposition . Mr. Speaker, I would like to have a few words on this resolution which really focuses attention on unemployment throughout the Province. The government has not seen fit to introduce the debate on unemployment in this House which is reaching record proportions throughout the Province. So the responsibilit y for getting this subject on the floor for debate in this House rested with the Opposition.

It took an Opposition member to bring in a resolution focusing attention on un~mployrnent,which is one of the most serious problems we have in Newfoundland at the present time. 1322

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 631 MJ - 1 MR. S. NEARY: Now,one would have thought then, if the Premier saw fit to get into a debate on a private member's resolution,that he would have offered something constructive to the debate, that he would have held out some hope for the people in this Province who are unemployed, especially young people between the ages of sixteen and twenty­ five.The bulk of the unemployed in this Province are young people, young Newfoundlanders, young men and women between the ages of sixteen and twenty-five.

Almost sixty percent of those unemployed inNewfoundlandat the present time are between the ages of sixteen and twenty-five. Right at the tender years in their lives, Mr. Speaker, when they should be working and getting trained for their future, they are unemployed, they cannot find jobs. Students who will be looking for jobs this year, the ones that I have talked to 1who came to see me 1 are panic- stricken, they are _ d~sp~ra"b~ for employment to try to work there way through university. But, Mr.

Speaker, instead of getting an inspirational address from the hon. the Premier, instead of the Premier taking advantage of the situation to lay out the provincial government plans for development in the Province to create jobs and to reduce unemployment, what did he do? The hon. gentleman outlined what I could only term as a mad hatter's policy for future development in this Province. It had all the logic of a mad hatter. Mr. Speaker, the hon.gentleman also took advantage of his few remarks to try to heap some praise on the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. J.

Morgan) for all the loans and all the guarantees that the government have had t give out in the last year in order to keep some of the fish plants afloat in this Province. And the hon. the Premier passed a remark 1 with tongue in cheek,that the Minister of Fisheries had targeted the areas that needed help. Mr. Speaker, even a 1323

May '26, 19 82 ' Tape No. 632 NM - 1 MR. NEARY: Kindergarden student in this Province knows that the fishery is in such a mess - MR . MORGAN: Romeo does not know it . MR. NEARY: - in such a mess as a result, Mr. Speaker, as a result of the mad hatter policy of this government. MR. MORGAN: Romeo does not know. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, could I ask for the protection of the Chair? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please~ MR. MORGAN: Protection o:: t.he Chair, you need som~ protection from your friends in Ottawa. MR.

NEARY:-: Mr.· Speaker, as a result of the mad hatter policy of this administration, the fishery, which is the backbo~e of the economy of Newfoundland is in a horrible mess. And the reason it is ' in a horrible mess, Mr. Speaker, is because the government has no ~olicy, no provincial policy. Forget what Ottawa can do, Ottawa is responsible for the fish when it is in the water. When the fish is landed on the wharf, on land, on dry land, it be­ comes the sole responsibility of the provincial government. MR. TOBIN: we give it all to Ottawa and they keep giving it away. MR. NEARY: I beg your pardon? MR.

TOBIN: Ottawa keeps giving it away. 1324

May 26, 1982 MR. NEARY: put ashore it is - MR. MORGAN: keeps giving it away. MR. NEARY: Tape No. 632 NM - 2 Mr. Speaker, when the fish is we do not get the fish, Ottawa - when it is put on land it becomes the responsibility of the provincial government. Now, Mr. Speaker, where are the problems in the fishery today? Where are the problems? I ask the hon. gentleman from Exploits (Dr. Twomey) , where are the problems? The number one problem with the Newfoundland fishery, and I am sure my hon. friend is aware of this, the number one problem is marketing. Is marketing a federal responsibility?

I ask the hon. gentleman to answer me truthfully. MR. MORGAN: You do not have any reason to get person!'ll· MR. NEARY: Is marketing, which is the number one problem and has been the number one problem for a long time, is marketing a federal or a provincial responsibility? I do not hear the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) interrupting me now, Mr. Speaker. MR. MORGAN: Both. Both hopefully. We get direction from Ottawa. MR. NEARY: It is a provincial responsibility, Mr. Speaker, and what has this administration done about the marketing of our Newfoundland fish? The hon. Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) - MR.

MORGAN: How about yesterday? MR. NEARY: got aboard of a plane - MR. MORGAN: MR. NEARY: - the hon. Minister of Fisheries r -came from Ottawa yesterday. - the hon. Minister of Fisheries 1 3 2 5 n

May 26, 1982 MR. NEARY: MR. MORGAN: MR. NEARY: the protection o'f the Chair? SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR • .SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order~ MR. NEARY: Tape No. 632 got aboard of a plane - Boston next week. Mr. Speaker, could I have Oh, oh~ NM- 3 Order, please~ Order, please~ Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minister ef Fisheries (Mr. Morgan), here is his contribution to marketing Newfoundland fish, TJhe hon . Minister of Fisheries announced about two months ago that he was going to Boston and New York te find markets for Newfoundland fish. MR. MORGAN: months ago .that was done. MR. NEARY: Two months ago? That was ten Mr.

Speake .r ,· the hon. gentleman made no mention that he was going to Jamaica, that was not mentioned in his ne~ release at all. But when it was reported to me that he was in Jamaica - .!>1.R. CALlAN : Name him • MR. NEARY: - when he came back he changed his tune - MR . MORGAN: No,not Jamaica, Porto Rico . Get your facts straight now. MR. NEARY: - and sai d he had gone to the 1326

May 26,1982 Tape No. 633 ah-1 MR.NEARY: West Indies. Mr. Speaker, and the other thing that the hon. gentleman did to try to market Newfoundland fish was to do something that the fish processors on the Southwest Coast have been doing for the last fifteen or twenty years,and that is to persuade Air Canada to fly Newfoundland fish to Los Angeles, to California and to markets on the Mainland and in the United States . The fish processors on the Southwest have been doing that for at least fifteen years. The only problem ,Mr. Speaker, with it was that Air Canada would not give them a special rate .

That was the problem . The markets were there. The fish processors on the Southwest Coast knew the markets were there and haveknownit for fifteen or twenty years, so the minister was of no help there. And the other day he was up in Montreal or Toronto somewhere going aroun4 :hobnobbing with tn~ hotel maitre d's promoting fish as a food. Mr. Speaker, you may as well take a pebble and fly out in the mid-Atlantic and drop a little pebble down in the middle of the ocean as to do what the hon. gentleman did last week and did again yesterday. So , Mr. Speaker, what have they done about our marketing problem?

They have done nothing , zilch 1 the number one problem, provincial responsibility, provincial ~urisdiction. MR. TOBIN: . (Inaudible). MR. ~EARY : ::•ardon! MR. TOBIN: MR.NEARY: (Inaudible) that is far enough. Mr. Speaker, the new members of this House should learn a little courtesy and a little respect. AN HON .MF I~!'-\E /1.~ Boy vte never had much example from across the way. ·1 3 2 7

May 26,1982 Tape No. 633 ah-2 !.ffi. SPEAKER ( Aylward) : Order, please! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, they will learn in due course. They will learn. MR . CALLAN : MR.NEARY: They are lucky to be here. They will learn, Mr. Speaker, that that kind of a remark , that kind of chaw, can onJy get them in trouble. It can only get them in trouble, Mr . S~eaker. MR. ·cALLAN: own merit- MR.NEARY: to happen - MR. CALLAN: MR.NEARY: of the Chair? MR.SPEAKER: MR.NEARY: They did not get here on 'their Now, Mr. Speaker, what has - they ~ot here on the Premier's coattails. Could I have the protection Order, please! Mr.

Speaker, what has to happen in the marketing of fish, of Newfoundland fish? Well, Mr . Speaker, I do not know exactly what has to happen but I will say this, that it will take a major reform in the marketing of Newfoundland fish to make it a success. There is one of two things that has to happen, Mr. Speaker, ~nd the union, the Fishermen's Union have been advocating this, and some of the fish trades have been advocating it and it is this , Mr.

Speaker, that we have to have a marketing agency not only for saltfish like the Canadian Saltfish Corporation, we have to have a marketing agency for all the other produce of the sea 1328

May 26, 1982 Tape 634 EC - 1 MR. NEARY: and that can be done either by the provincial government setting up their own agency or the provincial government co-operating with the federal government in asking to have the terms of reference of the Canadian Saltfish Corporation amended so that the Canadian Saltfish Corporation will be expanded to include all produce of the sea. It will take, Mr. Speaker, that kind of a Liberal reform in order to successfully market the produce of the seas around our coast. Obviously, Mr. Speaker, the government are not going to do that.

They are quite happy and content to sit back and let fish plant processors who are in qifficulty, in trouble - target it alright; they come in on their hands and knees begging for a loan or a guarantee or a handout to keep them afloat. Mr. Speaker, it is like sticking your finger in the dyke, that is all it is. It is only - patchwork, it is only patching up the fishery. They have no policy, they are just merely using the band - aid treatment and they are bailing out - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: ~tr.

Speaker, let me remind hon. gentlemen in this House that back in 1964 or 1965 I think it was, every fish plant in Newfoundland went bankrupt, every one, and the government of the day bailed them out. Any government worth its salt, any government, Liberal, Tory, N.D.P., any government worth its salt would bail out a fish plant if it were in trouble. MR. MORGAN: The feds would not do it. MR. NEARY: Pardon? MR. WALSH: l'ihat is >'lron<g wi-th 'che feds'1' 132':1 ( i

May 26, 1982 Ta pe 634 EC 2 MR. SPEAKER (Aylward) : Order, please! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the hen. gentleman says, "What is wrong with the reds?" Mr. Speaker, it is not a federal - the hen. gentleman was not listening to me. When the fish comes ashore it is a provincial responsi?ility ; processing licences is a provincial responsibility. Does the bon. gentl~an Understand that? Keeping these plants goipg is a provincial responsibility. So, Mr. Speaker, this is their philosophy.

Their policy is to wa~t until plants get in trouble and they have to come to the government begging for a few dollars to keep them afloat, to keep " them solvent, to keep them from being forced into bankruptcy and being forced to close their doors. That is the policy of this government. 'l,'hat is the policy, sit back and wait. Mr· Speak~r, every processor that came to the Newfoundland Government came looking to be bailed out. N.ot one came and said, Look, we want to expand, give us a few dollars to help us out, we want to diversify the industry. None of that. They would have been 133!1

May 26, 1982 Tape 635 PK - 1 MR. NEARY: forced into receivership or into bankruptcy, if they did not get bailed out by the Newfoundland Government. And any government worth its salt would do that. So, Mr. Speaker, I would not get up and pound my chest if I was the Premier over that kind of. a nolicv. Sit back and wait - MR. HODDER: The fact there is no quality control comes under the Provincial Government. MR. NEARY: That is right. Another thing that comes under the provincial government by the way controlled jurisdiction, is quality control. Another big problem. MR.

HODDER: That is why the fish plants are in such hard shape. MR. NEARY: Another big problem in the market. MR. WARREN: it means. . MR. • ~Ol'li."T: MR. Hnr:-n~~= ?1R. NEA!i.J:: They do not understand what You can only speak from vonr m•'n seat • That is not true. But any way, Mr. Speaker, that is only one point, but a very important point. The fact of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that the fishery in this Province is the backbone of our economy, and in the last ten years it has been grossly neglected. You could almost charge the government with criminal nealigP.nce. MR. WARREN: Chaos! Chaos! HR.

NEARY: Causing chaos in the fishery in this Province. I was hoping today when the Premier got up that he would outline some positive plan for the future development of the fishery, some positive plan for 1331

May 26, 1982 Tape 635 PK - 2 MR. NEARY: the future development of sawmills in this Province, some future plan~ for the development of the forest industry in this Province. MR. WARREN: MR. NEARY: He does not have any. Some future plans for the mineral industry in this Province, some future plans about the development of the Lower Churchill. Mr. Speaker, this House has now been open two weeks or longer and not a word about the Lower Churchill; whether it is going to go ahead, whether the cost has escalated beyond our wildest imagination and it is not feasible to develop. Not a sound , not a word not a tittle. MR.

WARREN: MR. NEARY: Not a word about Labrador. Not a word about Labrador at all,so far in this session of the House. Not a word, Mr. Speaker. You would have thought that the Premier today leaping into the debate on a Private Member's resolution, which is again unusual, Mr. Speaker, to see the Premier and minister"' -usually Private Members' Day is left for Private Members' resolutions and backbenchers on the government side to speak and outline their position on certain policies '. That is the whole idea of Private Members' Day, but here we have the Premier and ministers hogging Private Members' Day.

Hogging it, taking up the time of the House outlining their mad hatter policy for the develoPment of this Province. MR. WARREN: All he did todav was nefenn the ~inister. Why would he defend the minister today, I wonder? MR. NEARY: Wel~ 1 we will come to that. We will deal with that later 1 why the premier is defending the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan). 1332

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 636 so -1 MR. NEARY Mr. Speaker, is it any wonder then, with this-mad hatter policy, that back in 1972, ten years ago, the unemployment rate in this province was 9.7 per cent- 9.7 ten years ago. MR. WARREN MR. NEARY For 1972? 1972. What is it today, Mr. Speaker ? Just listen. Ten years under a Tory regime - 1982, 17.0 per cents. MR . WARREN: Doubled. Wow! MR. NEARY Practially doubled.

The unemployment has gone up in this Province by 100 per cent in ten years or less and not a word of hope today offered to the unemployed in this Province by the hon. the Premier who spends all his time talking about oil. He dreams oil, he has oil on the brain, he eats oil. That is all he can think about, oil, and neglect every other phase and part of our economy, every other industry in Newfoundl~nd neglected beyond words. Mr.

Speaker, the unemployment since 1972, when it was 9.7 per cent -just following the change of government from Liberal to Tory, was 9.7 per cent at the time, it is now 17.0 per cent, practially doubled. MR. WARREN 95 per cent. MR. NEARY And, Mr.Speaker, I would say that that is a·very conservative figure, with a small''c'. I would think it is much higher than that. My own opinion is that unemployment in this Province at the present time is running around 35 to 40 per cent. And so, Mr.

Speaker, I think it is shameful for the p'remier to get up and put on such a display, on his mad hatter policy, this afternoon on the future develop~ent of this Province. It is an insult 1333

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 636 SD - 2 MR. NEARY: to our unemployed. And, Mr. Speaker, tomorrow, I will predict tomorrow -the hon gentleman wound up by saying, 'Wait now until we hear the Budget S"Qeech tomorrow'. I predict, Mr . Speaker, there will be nothing in that Budget that will sti.mulate the econom y there will be nothing in it that will satisfy Christine Fagan of the Board of Trade, or bus i ness and industry ,or the construction \..rorker ,or the contractors in this Province. What we have now - the pre - t :,nderin g ­ what we have we have. There will be no stimulus in that Budget, Mr.

Speaker . . there will be increases in taxes, they will sock it to the consumer . You talk about your hard - times Budqet in Quebec , we have not seen anything yet. MR. DINN MR. NEARY: the ec<:>nomy . MR. WALSH l'lhat .would y.ou do? I would do something to stimulate Like what? 13 34

May 26, 1982, Tape 637, Page 1 -- apb 11R. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I am not the government. Look, I keep reminding hon. members over there, Mr. Speaker, that I have occupied every seat in this hon. House except one, and I have my eye on that one. MR. WARREN: And you are going to get it, yes. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: I have my eye on it, and, Mr. Speaker, if hon. gentlemen keep tormenting me and tempting me, I might - I like this job. This is a great job. It is the best job I have ever had, certainly it is the best paid job. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: But, Mr.

Speaker, I have not, as Joey thinks, lost my ambition and I have my eye on that seat. And if I am tempted I may just stay on, I may just hang on to this job, Mr. Speaker, and then go after the big one. MR. WARREN: Hear, hear! Right on! MR. NEARY: And I can guarantee you this, Mr. Speaker, that if I do the hon. gentleman will know he was in an election. MR. WARREN: Yes, sir. Right on! MR. NEARY: It will be fought on our issues and not on the hon. gentleman's issues, Mr. Speaker. MR. WINDSOR: It will be a long time before you will be Premier, and then some. MR. NEARY: So, Mr.

Speaker, we may have to wait for future debates to make some o·f the other points that I wanted to make this afternoon, we only have twent y minutes in this debate, but, Mr. Speaker, I want to say this, that~y heart goes out, and the hearts of all the members on this side of the House go 1 .,~,r J .J ~I

May 26, 1982, Tape 637, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: out to the unemployed in this Province, to the young Newfoundlanders who cannot find jobs, young men and women between the ages of sixteen and twenty-five who represent 60 per cent of the unemployed in this Province. And, Mr. Speaker, they can try all they want to blame it on the high interest rates and to blame it on Ottawa, but, Mr. Speaker, the situation in Newfoundland is much worse than is should be for the simple reason the provincial government have abdicated their responsibility and are not doing·their job.

I do no·t expect the provincial government to cure all the economic woes of Newfoundland, but, Mr. Speaker, I expect the provincial government to do its part. And I repeat again, the situation in Newfoundland is much worse than it should be. It could be better, and .. there could be more people working if the provincial government was on the ball and did their job, Mr. Speaker, as they are expected to do. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER(McNicholas): Before recognizing the next speaker I would like tb welcome to the gallery Dr. Haire and Mr. Davis from the University of Tasmania and Australia. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: I would also like to welcome to the gallery Mayor George Doyle and a delegation from the St. Lawrence town council from the Grand Bank district. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! 1335

May 26, 1982, Tape 637, Page 3 -- apb MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER(McNicholas): President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker. The bon. the If I could, Mr. Speaker, with the permission of the hon. member and the permission of the House , I would like to be able to propose- and witb the leave of the Opposition since it is Private Members Day, and witb, I hope, their co-operation which we always get '"'propose 1336 -A

May 26, 1982, Tape 638, Page 1 -- apb MR. MARSHALL: of the House,we need . MR. NEARY: MR. MARSHALL: the Standing Committees It is time for you. Well, with leave, and with the co-operation of the Opposition I move, Mr . Speaker, that the Government services comprise: the bon. the member for Bonavista North(Mr. Cross) the hon. the member for Windsor-Buchans(Mr. McLennan) the bon. the member for Grand Bank(Mr. Matthews) the hon. the member for Kilbride(Mr. Aylward) the bon. the member for Bay of Islands(Mr. Wooarow) the bon. the member for Eagle River(Mr. Hiscock) the bon. the member for Terra Nova(Mr. Lush).

On the Resource Policy Committee: the bon. the member for Fortune-Hermitage(Mr. Stewart) the bon. the member for Placentia(Mr. Patterson) the bon. the member for Burin-Placentia West(Mr. Tobin) the bon. the member for Twillingate(Mrs. Reid) the bon. the member for Bay de Verde(Mr. J. Reid) the hon. the member for Bellevue(Mr . Callan) the hon. the member for Fogo(Mr. Tulk). On the Social Services Committee: the hon. the member for St. John's North(Mr. Carter) the hon. the member for Torngat Mountains(Mr.Warren) the hon. the member for Port au Port(Mr. Hodder) the hon. the member for Humber West(Mr.

Baird) the hon. the member for Exploits(Dr. Twomey) the bon. the member for St.Mary's- The Capes(Mr. Hearn) the hon. the member for St. Barbe(Mr. Osmond) 1337

May 26, 1982, Tape 638, Page 2 -- apb MR. MARSHALL: And for the Public Accounts Committee, Mr. Speaker: The hon. the member for the Strait of Belle Isle(Mr. Roberts) who, as a result of his name appearing first, of course, will be Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, and is the nominee of the Opposition. the hon. the member for Torngat Mountains(Mr.Warren) the hon. the member for Terra Nova(Mr. Lush) the hon. the member for Humber West(Mr. Baird) the hon. the member for Burin-Placentia West(Mr. the hon. the member for Carbonear(Mr. Peach) the hon. the member for St. Marys'-The Capes(Mr.

On motion, and seconded by the hon. the Leader of the Opposition(Mr. Neary), the above members constitute and form the Standing Committees on the Government Services Committee, the Social Services Committee, the Resource Committee and the Public Accounts Committee. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. WOODROW: MR. SPEAKER(McNicholas): the Bay of Islands. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. WOODROW: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker. The hon. the member for Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker, may I first of all congratulate all hon. members on their election victories on April 6th.

I would especially like to thank the people of Bay of Islands district for the vote of confidence that they placed in me. Tobin) Hearn) They, like Newfoundlanders and Labradorians everywhere, stood united with the united message for our . Premier and Progressive Conservative Government. They stood up and were counted, determined in their will that right and justice shall prevail, that we must receive a just return from our offshore resources. 1338

May 26, 1982, Tape 638, Page 3 -- apb MR. WOODROW: Mr. Speaker, the people of our Province have served notice that the days of sellouts and giveaways for short-term gain are over, that this time we shall not squander our greatest opportunity, that we will accept nothing less than a fair and reasonable settlement of our offshore 1339

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 639 MJ - 1 MR. L. WOODROW: oil and gas resources. SOME HON. MEMBERS: _ Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: With the tremendous mandate afforded us on April 6th comes a tremendous responsibility and challenge as well. However, Mr. Speaker, as I ponder the ' I caliber and determination of my colleagues, I have no doubt whatsoever that the challenge will be met in a responsible and just manner . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: - in the best interest of our people and Province. Mr. Speaker, I probably should say a word to the new members.

I would like to say to them that this is the people's House. They have been elected by the people of their districts and they have every right, Mr. Speaker, to feel at home in this ~ouse and to speak out for their constituents and for their Province whenever they feel like doing so. Mr. Speaker, I would also like to congratulate the hon. member for Terra Nova (Mr. T. Lush) for bringing this very important private members' motion before this House of Assembly. Without doubt, Mr.

Speaker, job creation and the economy are two concerns facing governments throughout the world, Canada and the Province of Newfoundland being no exception, therefore, .I would lend my full support to this resolution and toward any efforts aimed at job creation and an improve,ment in our economy. Mr. Speaker, this private members motion has two major thrusts aimed at alleviating the present unemployment problem, resource development and joint federal I ~rovincial co-operation.

These are hardly fresh ideas or new directions,particularly the commitment to resource development which is the basic founding policy of this administration 1 3 l.tf1

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 639 MJ - 2 MR . L. WOODROW: and will continue to be so. However, Mr. Speaker, with regard to the second thrust , joint federal I provincial co-operation , suffice it to say, Mr . Speaker, that we wil continue to seek that very elusive objective which is so necessary for economic growth and perhaps ,more important1y,for a strong,united Canada . 1 3 41

·May 26, 1982 Tape 640 EC - 1 MR. WOODROW: Mr. Speaker, I am hopeful that there is still time for this joint federal/provincial co-operation to be generated, but sometimes I am not optimistic. Not so long ago, we heard Prime Minister Trudeau sound the battle cry that co-operative federalism was dead, that we were embarking on our own federal/provincial 'cold war', if you will. Mr. Speaker, I would like to add here that last October, I think it was October 15th or around the 19th, , I attended the first Parliamentary French Conference in Ottawa. That is where I got some of those buttons, by the way.

And we had an hour in the House of Commons; and at that particular time,I think it was the member for St. John's West (Mr. Crosbie), I am almost certain, he was asking a question of the Prime Minister. And I have never in all my days seen anybody so arrogant as the present Prime Minister of Canada. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: A great statesman, yes, intelligent, butfor a man to be so arrogant to the people of Canad& it -was something that I could hardly stomach. Probably that is the reason why we have so many ills today.

Because the gentleman wants to cure the debt of Canada which happened over years and years - he wants to cure that in one year. Mr. Speaker, if you have a cut finger you cannot cure it overnight, it takes weeks and months maybe. Then Mr. Lalonde was on the media sounding the threat that if Newfoundland did not run back to the table and sign the so-called Nova Scotia deal,then we as people could not even expect equal treatment, that our arrangements would be substantially worse. What arrogance! 11 ~ ~~

May 26, 1982 Tape 640 EC - 2 MR. WOODROW: This position has not changed despite the clear,unified voice that our people sent to Ottawa on April 6, 1982, this year. Mr. Speaker, this is a clear indication of the present state of federal/provincial relations, whe .n the federal government chooses to ignore 61 per cent of our people, chooses to ignore our just and reasonable proposals on the offshore resource. 1 3 4 ·.;

May 26, 1982 Tape 641 PK - l MR. WOODROW: Mr. Speaker, we hear of separatist movements in Quebec and Western Canada, we hear of mega projects falling by the wayside, business bankruptcies on a daily basis, homeowners losing homes. Mr. Speaker, the list goes on and on. Surely if ever there was a time for provincial I federal co-operation, of pulling our oars together, now is the time. As I said, }tr. Speaker, I am hopeful but not too optimistic that a new spirit of federalism will be forthcoming, especially with the present Prime Minister of Canada.

Any one who followed our ten premiers at the first Ministers Conference on the economy was shocked and dismayed that despite their passionate pleas to lower interest rates, our Prime Minister and our Federal Finance Minister (MacEachen) simply threw up their hands and refused. Despite the pleas of Canadians from coast to coast, the federal government refuses to abandon its ruthless budget, and its interest rate policy which is destroying the economic and social fabric of' this great country of Canada.

When discussing unemployment or the economy, statistics seem to be the focal point, the debating platform to illustrate how serious the situation has become. However, Mr. Speaker, statistics have their phases. How ~any lives, families, futures, dreams have fallen by the wayside in the wake of the present economic circumstances? This is the real tragedy of unemployment, and fractional improvements are worsening. Our adjusted or non-adjusted fugures cannot mask this social tragedy now robbing the very hope of many Canadians.

If Canadians were not busy simply surviving in today's economic climate. ~here would be an uprising, there would be a revolt. Their energies have, however, been directed towards keeping body and soul together, 1 3 4 if

~y 26, 1982 Tape 641 PK - 2 HR. WOODROW: towards keeping food on the table, fuel in the tanks, and bills paid. In the midst of these modern day pressures ,alcoholism, divorce, drug abuse, crime, and a host of social ills are the natural result. They breed and are fed from unemployment. 1341

May 26, 1982 Tape 642 EC - 1 MR. WOODROW: · This is J[hy_ we have reached crisis ?roportions, this is why party politics have to be pushed aside for the common good. And this is where the five Liberal members in Ottawa should join this Province - SOME HON. MEMBERS : !.ffi.. WOODROW: Hear, hear! - come out and speak and stand up: not like what we saw in today's paper, two members refused to do so. MS VERGE: What about "Mr. Tobin? MR. WOODROW: Let me tell you about Mr. Tobin. I sent Mr. Tobin a telegram about two weeks ago-MR. SIMMONS: Brian Tobin? MR.

WOODROW: 'Yes - about the pilfering of lobsters in the Woods Island are~ my people in the Bay of Islands. I have not received a word yet in reply. And also a copy was sent to the Minister of Revenue (Mr. Rompkey). MS VERGE: What about the offshore? What has he said on the offshore? MR. WOODROW: The offshore, Mr. Speaker. I heard him on radio the other morning and he certainly has not gone along with what is in the interests of this Province, I can assure you. MR. BAIRD! He turned it around. MR. WOODROW: Yes. Mr. Speaker, Canada >-7orks projects are not the answer.

They offer individuals little pride and independence and the various projects are ofttimes of little long-term benefit to the communities involved. 1346 ( j

May 26, 1982 Tape 642 EC - 2 MR. WOODROW: I just want to have a word on this, a little word off the cuff. I have had several in my district, and I have heard foremen say that we can on~y expect 50 per cent production from our employees because there is no incentive, taking horne a rniser~y $115 or $125 a week; Mr. Speaker, we have to do what we, as a people, understand and do best. And what dQ we know is best for us? Work in resource­ based industries. The fisheries: 1 heard the hon. the Premier mention what was done in the fisheries over the past five or s~ months.

If that is not real _j progress, what is progress? The forestry, home industries and so on: This is why, Mr . Speaker, I was particularly pleased to hear the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr . Dinn) outline a very progressive programme center .ed around resource projects and federal/ provincial co-operation, and I wo~d certainly congra~ate the minister for the bard work and thought which obviously went into its formulation . 134 7

May 26, 1982 Tape 643 MJ - 1 MR. L. WOODROW: I believe that the minister stated there were some 132 priorized resource-based projects to be allocated in various priority areas, eetermined through federal consultations. MR. NEARY: Why did they do it, the federal government? MR. WOODROW: I will come to that point in ~ minute. The opportunity was there to make a meaningfull dent in unemployment while providing long-term resource,based facilities and improvements. What this nation is all about. Well, Mr. Speaker, a change of government and attitude in Ottawa scuttled the program as the hon.

Lloyd Axworthy, the Minister of Unemployment and immigration at the time, decided to return to the Canada Works Projects. MR. LUSH: elopment work programmes. MR. WOODROW: That is all these community dev- Yes, right. Mr. Speaker, there are some very good Canada Works Projects. I refer to a wharf especially, built in my district in the community of York Harbour, when the federal government had turned it down. The old wharf was gone, worn out, they were not going to replace it I had to get a petition from the people and send it to them I got them to realize that this wharf was needed not only for the fishermen, Mr.

Speaker, but it was needed also for the tourist trade which is becoming very important in my district. Be that as it may, I still support this very important private member's motion. Indeed, Mr. Speaker, we have taken a number of measures to stimulate employment, and while much has been done, much needs to be done. If the federal government recognizes our legitimate claim over the development of the offshore, jobs could begin tommorrow, over and above the numbers working now as a result of local preference regulations put in place by the provincial government. If the 1 3 '+ t1

.c.- May 26, 1982 Tape No. 643 MJ - 2 MR. L WOODROW: federal government ended its policy of fisheries resource give-aways and trade-offs, increased fish produce could be handled and processed .13•d

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 644 so - 1 MR. WOODROW: at our plarits which have been fully supported by our provincial Department of Fisheries Increased local processing is a necessity, Mr.Speaker, and this is an area where provincial/federal co-operation could play a major role in job creation. Mro Speaker, I will not need my twenty-five minutes, I do not think. Mr. Speaker, let me conclude my remarks by saying that this government is addressing the problem of unemployment in a determined, meaningful way. We are doing this in spite of the federal policy rather than along with it.

Provincial job creation in housing, transportation, fisheries, forestry, offshore and mining sectors is having a noticeable, positive result. And also the Premier mentioned earlier the projects like Cat Arm in Bay d'Espoir and what have you - MR. SIMMS MR. WOODROW: Burgee and Ramea. - Burgee and Ramea and the like. However,with a more sensitive, co-operative policy shift in Canada, I feel that even greater job opportunities could be created in our Province in the resource-based area. This, after all, is what Canada is all about. Mr.

Speaker, I state again tha~ I am hopeful and I would like, in fact, to say optimistic that the co-operation may yet be realized, that this co-operation may yet be realized. Time is running out and that is why I support the urgency of this timely resolution before us. Mr. Speaker, I must say first, first be I sit down, I would like to thank the members of the House for being so kind, for letting me speak with silence. And I do hope that all of us - AN HON. MEMBER: A good speech. 1350

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 644 MR . WOODROW : - no matter what, in fact, our allegiance is -I think first of all we are here, we are sent here by the people of our districts , and they have in us, they have confidence in us,and I hope that all of us will do our best for our Province and will be worthy so - 2 of the trust that the people of the various districts placed in us when they elected us on April 6th of this year . Thank you . SOME BON. MEMBERS: Bear, hear . MR. SPEAKER (McNicholas): The hon. member for Fogo. 1 3 51

May 26,1982 Tape No. 645 ah-1 MR.TULK: Mr. Speaker, before I get into the resolution that has been put on the Order Paper by the member for Terra Nova (Mr. Lush), let me congratulate the member for the Bay of Islands (Mr. Woodrow). I may not agree with him,but certainly his arguments are well put. MR.WOODROW: It is hard to disagree. MR.TULK: . It may not be hard to disagree, Mr. Speaker, but his arguments are well put and it is a pleasure listening to him. I want first of all, Mr.

Speaker, to say to the member-for Terra Nova (Mr.Lush) that perhaps his resolution is well put and perhaps the most important resolution to come into the House. H.e points out in his speech and in his resolution that perhaps this is one of the most important resolutions ana a matter of grave importance to ' this Province. There can be no doubt about that, Mr. Speaker, it is the singular most important issue·in Newfoundland today, the matter of unemployment. Mr. Speaker, in his first

whereas he says, "Whereas the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador has the highest unemployment record in Canada." And, Mr. Speaker, there can be no doubt about that,because if you look at the April statistics for unemployment in this country we see that the unemployment rate in Newfoundland , the actual unemployment rate as given by Statistics Canada,is 17.1 per cent. The adjusted rate is 15.4,and the unemployment figure for Canada as a whole is hovering around the 9 per cent mark. So, Mr.

Speaker, we are practically double,the unemployment rate in this Province is practically double what it is in the rest of Canada. Mr. Speaker, in Newfoundland today according to the latest statistics,there is a 13S2

May 26,1982 Tape No. 645 ah-2 MR.TULK.: labour force of 210,000 people, a labour force of 210,000- unemployed 36,000. And, Mr. Speaker, that is with a participation rate, people looking for work in this Province., of 50. 5 per cent. Ih other words,only 50.5 per cent of the people, 50 per cent approximately., of the people in this Province are looking for work and we have 36,000 unemployed. Mr. Speaker, 50'per cent of our people have given up looking for work. Why? The answer is obvious. There is no work for most people ih this Province. Now, Mr. Speaker, let us look again at that participation rate, 50 per cent,al)d our statistics show an unemployment rate of 17 per cent. 1 3 5 '3

May 26, 1982 Tape 646 EC - 1 MR. TULK: The actual figure of people who are not working in this Province and perhaps should be working,is somewhere around,perhaps, 74,000 for an unemployment rate of 34 or 35 per cent. So actually the unemployment rate should be 35 per cent instead of 17.1 or 15.4 per cent. Mr. Speaker, that is approximately one-third of our people who are capable of working and are unemployed. Those are the re_al unemployment figures, one-third of our labour force unemployed. Mr. Speaker, the unemployment figures in t~is Province have reached close to depression standards. Now, Mr. Speaker, the second

WHEREAS put forward in the resolution by my friend fr?m Terra Nova (Mr. Lush) reads: "and;

WHEREAS there are a number of areas in the Province where the unemployment figures are far beyond the provincial average". Mr.

Speaker, we have in Newfoundland the worst unern;?loyment rate in Canada and yet the regional figures for April, if you l_ook at the regional figures for April, five distinct re~ions in this Province for April, you will see that the actual rate of unemployment in the Avalon region is 14.1 per cent, region two, which includes the Burin Peninsula and the South Coast is 16.1 per cent, region three, the West Coast, the Northern Peninsula and Labrador is 21.5 per cent, region four, Central and the Southeast Coast of Newfoundland, 20.2 per cent, region five, St. John's, 11.8 per cent. Mr.

Speaker, these are the actual rates. If vou look at our participation rate again,then perhaps those figures should read somewhere around 28, 32, 42 per cent· In the region, Mr. Speaker, that encompasses my district, in April - 40 per cent, 22 per cent across this Province. 1 3 s i; ( i

~1ay 26, 1982 Tape 646 BC - 2 MR. TULK: We have the worst unemployment rat~ in Canada and, Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that certain regions of this Province have reached depression proportions. Mr. Speaker, that is not the worst . . The worst is that year after yea .r the unemployment figures in this Province are increasing. The member for Terra Nova .(Mr. Lush) in .133 5

May 26, 1982 Tape 647 TM - 1 MR. TULK: his usual eloquent fashion pointed out the other day - MR. STAGG: Inimitable. MR. TULK: The man is good at words. The exact word to describe the member for Terra Nova, I agree in his usual eloquent fashion, Mr. Speaker, pointed out that over the last ten year period unemployment in this province has practically doubled. It has gone Mr. Speaker, from 8 per cent in April 1972, to 15.4 per cent in 1982. MR. STAGG: MR. TULK: What about the participation rate? Participation rate in this Province is 50.5 per cent adjusted to 53.5 per cent. That was April.

Canada as a whole was 63 per cent. MR. STAGG: That carne from Quebec. MR. TULK: It must. It carne from the same place I guess. Mr. Speaker, that unemployment rate is getting worse every year. Mr. Speaker, those :atre thE:! statistics. Those are the raw figures. Mr. Speaker, they do not tell the real story~ The real story, Mr. Speaker, is found among our _ people. When y.ou go out as a member of the ~ouse of Assembly . and walk in and find a person without a job, a person who has been employed all his life, and suddenly he does not have a job - MR.

STAGG: Are we the authors of our own misfortunes or do we have something to blame it on? MR. TULK: -- he finds himself, Mr. Speaker, without the standard of living that he had. He finds himself at a lower standard of living. Mr. Speaker, the number of social pro~lems that are being caused in Newfoundland as a result of that, the number of ~arnily problems, Mr. Speaker, are rising every day. It is one of the worst ~hings that a member of this House has to do, I suggest. !MR. STAGG: We have heard the s_yrn_ptorns _, now tell us about the cure. MR.~: The cure, Mr. Speaker, 13S6

May 26, 1982 Tape 647 TM- 2 MR. TULK: is to take me .mbers of the House of Assembly like the member for Stephenville, out of here - MR. WARREN: Yes , that would do it. MR. TULK: - and put somebody in who bas some concern, perhaps, for the Province . MR. HODDER: made a mistake. Maybe Stephenville 1357 0

May 26, 1982 MR. TULK: frustration. MR. STAGG: MR. TULK: Tape No. 648 RA- 1 Now, Mr. Speaker, the worst Not all of them. The toddler from Stephenville is up, the toddler from Stephenville is down. He toddles right along. Mr. Speaker, those people that you find in your district will, in many cases in frustration and with a great deal of loss of pride, perhaps turn to his member. And the frustration ob­ viously for the member is that there is, in many cases, no help because there are just no jobs available. MR. BARRY: Just give us five minutes on Northern cod stocks and the way the feds are handling them. MR.

TULK: Just be quiet. I will give you five minutes on Northern cod stocks in a few minutes. MR. BARRY: I would like to hear what you think about the representative (inaudible) • MR. HODDER: He has already told you that. MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, that is the real - He could not understand that. MR. HODDER: in baby talk. MR. TULK: He could not understand it, put it That is the real tragedy, the real tragedy, the sapping of our independent spirit as a people. That is the real problem, that of unemployment in this Pro­ vince. Mr. Speaker, what has this government done? What has this government done?

CQ, 'It is Canada-wide'. ' Un­ employment is Canada-wide'. Agreed, Mr. Speaker, it is North America - 1358

Ma y 26, B82 Tape No. 648 RA- 2 MR. TULK: · wide. It is widespread throughout the wes ·tern World. Perhaps it is a whole world problem. Or they will look and say 'Oh, it is ottawa and the hi.gh interest rates'. Mr, Speaker, I agree that interest rates obviously affect the emplo~n t record of this Province. Then they go on - but they fail to point out that interest rates in Canada perhaps are tied to the U.s. rates. 'The federal government should do more', is their cry. That is why I disagree with my friend from Bay of Islands (Mr. Woodrow) • Now 1 Mr. Speaker 1 let us ask this government one crues ·tion.

Let us agree with them on all those things - hypothetically ·agree with them. It is a world- wide problem. adian problem. It is a North AD:lerican problem. It is a can­ Let us agree with them on all that. The fed- er ·al government should do more. Oh 1 i.t .i.s a problem for the federal government. Where does that leave them? Where does that leave them? Is that an excuse? Can they throw in the towel? The answer is no. The answer is no. This government haS aresponsibility as well as the other government in Canada to the unemployment record. Now 1 Mr. Speaker 1 I want t0 refer to ·rural development. 135q

May 26, 1982 MR TULK: Tape 649 JC - 1 Yesterday, the member for Twillingate (Ms. Reid) who is no doubt sincere, but she can not get away with it, Mr. Speaker, she just can not be allowed to get away with it. She spoke of Canada Works or, as a lot of people call them, Community Development Programmes. She called them make work projects, and indeed they are. But she got up and she cast all kinds of doubts about the worth of those programmes. Mr.

Speaker, I would suggest to her that in the job that she held before she carne to this House, that that was probably one of her prime concerns, to get some of those from the federal government. I would suggest that to her. MR. NEARY: The federal government paid 90 per cent of the cost of hiring her. MR. TULK: But she said no, that she could only think of one that was worth anything - very few, worth­ while, long-term projects. Mr. Speaker, there are many cases in the member's district, where without the help of Canada Works Programmes some of her people would not yet have water and sewer, at least water.

And there are many places where some of her own fishermen would not have wharves if they had to wait for this crowd on the other side of the House to give it to them. MR. WARREN: MR. TULK: MR. WARREN: MR. TULK: MR. WARREN: Canada Works. MR. TULK: short-term employment, MR. STAGG: MR. NEARY: MR. TULK: She would not be here today, No, she probably would not. That is right. She probably would not. That is how she got here, through Short-term employment, she said, The hon. member is a LIP project. Go back to your seat, boy. -low pay. The toddler. He toddles back and forth. Low pay. Sure it is low pay.

We know that, Mr. Speaker, we know that the hon. member is 1 3 G ll

0 May 26, 1982 Tpae 649 JC - 2 MR. TULK: partiall y riqht . But she does not ai~e the whole pi~ture. Why are those Canada Conununity Development Projects there in the first place? Why? The ans\ver is simple , ~e answer is simple. What else is there? May I ask the member for Twillingate (Ms , Reid) one question? For the people in her distri .ct who are unemployed, what else is there for them to do? She wants to do away with them. What is . s he 00ing to do? MR. BAIRD: MR TULK: Ask it while she is here. I can not help that. Go out and get her., go out and get her. MR.

NEARY: It is not our fault if members are not in the aouse . MR. TULK: You write it down1 and take it out her, then you will serve some usef.ul purpose. Now come on. What else is there for those people who are unemployed in the district? MR. NEARY: MR . TULK: He is of no use to this house. The answer is !absoutely - no, no. He is good. He is amusing . 1 3 61

May 26, 1982 Tape No. 650 PS - l MR. NEARY: So he is amusing, eh? MR. TULK: Yes. I had him over here yesterday, I had to flick him back again. MR. NEARY: Just like an old stoke. MR. TULK: Yes. We had him over here and we said 'No, we cannot take yqu, go on back. They kicked him out of all those offices MR. NEARY: He sits there in the corner like a yellow mangey dog. MR. TULK: Not mangey. You cannot call him a mangey dog. MR. BAIRD: (Inaudible), Mr. Speaker. MR . TULK: Absolutely nothing, Mr. Speaker, there is absolutely nothing for the people in her district to do. Mr.

Speaker, I found it a little bit amusing, too, when she got up and talked about Rural Development Associations. Rural Development Associations, I found that amusing. The member for Twillingate (Mrs. Reid), was a co-ordinator of one of those de