Manitoba Hansard — 7 October 2009 (Sitting 76, 39th Legislature, 3rd Session)

39-3-76

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session - Thirty-Ninth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable George Hickes Speaker Vol. LXI No. 76 - 1:30 p.m., Wednesday, October 7, 2009 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Ninth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy, Hon. St. Vital N.D.P. ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley N.D.P. ASHTON, Steve Thompson N.D.P. BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli N.D.P. BLADY, Sharon Kirkfield Park N.D.P. BLAIKIE, Bill, Hon. Elmwood N.D.P. BOROTSIK, Rick Brandon West P.C. BRAUN, Erna Rossmere N.D.P. BRICK, Marilyn St. Norbert N.D.P. BRIESE, Stuart Ste. Rose P.C. CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East N.D.P. CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan N.D.P. CULLEN, Cliff Turtle Mountain P.C. DERKACH, Leonard Russell P.C. DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk N.D.P. DOER, Gary, Hon.

Concordia N.D.P. DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood P.C. DYCK, Peter Pembina P.C. EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside P.C. FAURSCHOU, David Portage la Prairie P.C. GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach P.C. GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson P.C. HAWRANIK, Gerald Lac du Bonnet P.C. HICKES, George, Hon. Point Douglas N.D.P. HOWARD, Jennifer Fort Rouge N.D.P. IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Garry N.D.P. JENNISSEN, Gerard Flin Flon N.D.P. JHA, Bidhu Radisson N.D.P. KORZENIOWSKI, Bonnie St. James N.D.P. LAMOUREUX, Kevin Inkster Lib. LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. La Verendrye N.D.P. MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns N.D.P.

MAGUIRE, Larry Arthur-Virden P.C. MARCELINO, Flor Wellington N.D.P. MARTINDALE, Doug Burrows N.D.P. McFADYEN, Hugh Fort Whyte P.C. McGIFFORD, Diane, Hon. Lord Roberts N.D.P. MELNICK, Christine, Hon. Riel N.D.P. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East P.C. NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake N.D.P. OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River N.D.P. PEDERSEN, Blaine Carman P.C. REID, Daryl Transcona N.D.P. ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Rupertsland N.D.P. RONDEAU, Jim, Hon. Assiniboia N.D.P. ROWAT, Leanne Minnedosa P.C. SARAN, Mohinder The Maples N.D.P. SCHULER, Ron Springfield P.C. SELBY, Erin Southdale N.D.P. SELINGER, Greg St. Boniface N.D.P.

STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo P.C. STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin-Roblin N.D.P. SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto N.D.P. TAILLIEU, Mavis Morris P.C. WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas N.D.P. WOWCHUK, Rosann, Hon. Swan River N.D.P.

3695 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, October 7, 2009 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee t o f r a m e s u c h l a w s a s may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom, know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PETITIONS Midwifery Services–Interlake Region Mrs. Bonnie Mitche lson (River East): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition. Residents of the Interlake Regional Health Authority do not have access to midwifery services. Midwives provide high quality, cost-effective care to childbearing women throughout their pregnancy, birth and in the post-partum period. Women in the Interlake should have access to midwifery care. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Health (Ms.

Oswald) to consider working with the Interlake Regional Health Authority to provide midwifery services to women in this health region. This is signed by Bonny Miller, Kerri Jo Nickel, Sheri Lee Bednarek and many, many others. Mr. Speaker: In accordance with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Virden Health Centre–Health-Care Services Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

And these are the reasons for this petition: The Virden and district hospital is the only active hospital servicing a large catchment area. Doctors' services are being provided to communities within the Virden catchment area by doctors who are based in Moosomin, Saskatchewan. The chronic shortage of doctors in the Virden clinic has forced several residents to seek family physician services in Moosomin and various other centres in Manitoba. Functioning operating room in the Virden and district hospital has been closed and the room turned into an ARHA supply distribution centre.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald) to consider increasing the number of doctors and nurses in the Virden and district hospital to ensure stable quality health care for the Virden catchment area. To request the Minister of Health to consider establishing a walk-in clinic in the Virden and district hospital. To request the Minister of Health to consider developing a specialized health-care service for the Virden and district hospital. To request the Minister of Health to consider reopening the Virden and district hospital operating room.

And this petition is signed by Bonnie Yanchycki, Christine Janzen, Don Bernhardt and many, many others, Mr. Speaker. Long-Term Care Facilities–Morden and Winkler Mr. Peter Dyck (Pembina): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition. Many seniors from the Morden and Winkler area are currently patients in Boundary Trails Health Centre while they wait for placement in local personal care homes.

3696 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 7, 2009 There are presently no beds available for these patients in Salem Home and Tabor Home. To make more beds in the hospital available, the regional health authority is planning to move these patients to personal care homes in outlying regions. These patients have lived, worked and raised their families in this area for most of their lives. They receive care and support from their family and friends who live in the community, and they will lose this support if they are forced to move to distant communities.

These seniors and their families should not have to bear the consequences of the provincial government's failure to en sure there are adequate personal care home beds in the region. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald) to ensure that patients who are awaiting placement in a personal care home are not moved to distant communities. And to urge the Minister of Health to consider working with the RHA and the community to speed construction and expansion of long-term care facilities in this region.

And this is signed by Betty Unrau, Helen Hamm, Abram Wall and many, many others. PTH 15 Mr. Ron Schuler (Springfield): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. These are the reasons for this petition: In 2004, the Province of Manitoba made a public commitment to the people of Springfield to twin PTH 15 and the floodway bridge on PTH 15, but then in 2006, the twinning was cancelled. Injuries resulting from collisions on PTH 15 continue to rise and have doubled from 2007 to 2008. In August 2008, the Minister of Transportation (Mr.

Lemieux) stated that preliminary analysis of current and future traffic demands indicate that local twinning will be required. The current plan to replace the floodway bridge on PTH 15 does not include twinning and, therefore, does not fulfil the current or future traffic demands cited by the Minister of Transportation. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request that the Minister of Transportation consider the immediate twinning of the PTH 15 floodway bridge for the safety of the citizens of Manitoba. Signed by Chris Dunn, Russ Fitzjohn, David Belsham and many, many other Manitobans.

Neepawa, Gladstone, Ste. Rose, McCreary– Family Doctors Mr. Stuart Briese (Ste. Rose): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. And these are the reasons for this petition: Access to a family doctor is vital to good primary health care. Patients depend on their family doctor for many things, including their routine health-care needs, preventive care and referrals for diagnostic tests and appointment with specialists. Family doctors in Neepawa, Gladstone and Ste. Rose are unable to accept new patients.

The nearby community of McCreary has not had a doctor available to take patients in months. Without a family doctor, residents of this large geographical area have no option but to look for a family doctor in communities as far away as Brandon and Winnipeg. Residents of these communities are suffering because of the provincial government's continuing failure to effectively addres s the shortage of doctors in rural Manitoba. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Health (Ms.

Oswald) to consider prioritizing the needs of these communities by ensuring they have access to a family doctor. To urge the Minister of Health to consider promptly increasing the use of nurse practitioners in these communities in order to improve access to quality health care. This petition is signed by Amanda Pinette, Elaine Chaput, Bonnie Brandson and many, many other fine Manitobans.

October 7, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3697 Whiteshell Provincial Park–Lagoons Mrs. Heather Stefanson (Tuxedo): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition: Manitoba's provincial parks are–were established to protect our natural resources and the environment for future generations. In July 2009 the lagoons in the vicinity of Dorothy Lake and Otter Falls in the Whiteshell Provincial Park overflowed, creating concerns that untreated sewage made its way into the Winnipeg River system and ultimately into Lake Winnipeg.

In addition, emergency discharges had to be undertaken at lagoons in the Whiteshell Provincial Park four times in 2005, once in 2007 and once in April 2009. Concerned stakeholders in the Whiteshell Provincial Park have repeatedly asked the provincial government to develop plans to address the shortcomings with the park's lagoons and to ensure the environment is protected, but the plans have not materialized. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To request the Minister of Conservation (Mr.

Struthers) to consider acknowledging that more timely action should have been taken to address the shortcomings with the lagoons in the Whiteshell Provincial Park in order to protect the environment. To request the Minister of Conservation to consider immediately developing a short- and long- term strategy to address the shortcomings with lagoons in the Whiteshell Provincial Park and to consider implementing them as soon as possible. And, Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by Darlene Lewing, Edward Lowen, W.L. Yakel and many, many others. TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to table the following reports: the Manitoba Human Rights Commission Annual Report 2008 and the Manitoba Public Insurance Quarterly Financial Report for the 2nd Quarter, six months ending August 31st, 2009. Hon. Gord Mackintosh (Minister of Family Services and Housing): I'm pleased to table the report of the Department of Family Services and Housing '08-09. Hon.

Diane McGifford (Minister of Advanced Education and Literacy): I'm pleased to table the following reports: The University of Manitoba Annual Financial Report 2009, the University of Winnipeg Financial Statements for the year ended March 31st, 2009, and the Manitoba Council on Post-Secondary Education Annual Report 2008-2009. Hon. Eric Robinson (Minister of Culture, Heritage, Tourism and Sport): Monsieur le président, c'est mon plaisir de vous présenter le rapport annuel de 2008-2009 pour le Centre culturel franco-manitobain et aussi le rapport annuel de 2008-2009 pour Manitoba Centennial Centre Corporation.

Translation Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to table the 2008-2009 Annual Report for the Centre culturel franco-manitobain as well as the 2008-2009 Annual Report for the Manitoba Centennial Centre Corporation. Hon. Jim Rondeau (Minister of Science, Technology, Energy and Mines): Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to table the Manitoba Health Research Council's 2008-2009 Annual Report entitled Inspiring Innovation. Encouraging Excellence. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members–[interjection] Order.

Order, please. –draw the attention of honourable members to the loge to my left where we have with us Mr. Binx Remnant, who is a former clerk of this Legislative Assembly. And also, in the public gallery, we have from Steinbach Christian High School, we have 26 grade 9 students under the direction of Mr. Curt Plett. This school is located in th e constituen cy of the honourable member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen). And also in the public gallery, we have from Red River College, we have 15 students under the direction of Ms. Karen Favell.

This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Fort Rouge (Ms. Howard).

3698 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 7, 2009 On behalf of all honourable members, I welcome you all here today. ORAL QUESTIONS Gang Violence Government Strategy Mr. Hugh McFadyen (Leader of the Official Opposition): Manitobans, of course, are greatly disturbed by the rash of gang violence and horrendous criminal violent activity over the past number of weeks and months here in Winnipeg and around Manitoba. Manitobans were being set on fire while checking a disturbance; others were being beaten, stabbed, shot and a variety of other horrific crimes taking place, Mr. Speaker.

We saw earlier the failure of the government to deal with the issue of overcrowding within provincial jails. In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, the member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen) has just received information that indicates that the average caseload for prosecutors within the department is now at 319, a staggering caseload, whic h is a further failure of this government to deal and put in place the resources required in order to meet the challenge of violence and gang activity in our province. Why have they failed Manitobans? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, one of the points we've been trying to make this week and last week at the Senate, that in terms of overcrowding of jails, there's 1,900 inmates in provincial jails in Manitoba right now; 12 to 1,300 of them are on remand. The courts, judges and lawyers have made decisions in the past in this country to give a two-for- one discount on remands in this country and that has, in turn, in fact, resulted in a lot more people staying a lot longer in remand in Brandon, in the Remand Centre, in Headingley, at Milner Ridge, at the women's jail and the new women's jail, potentially, when it's built. Mr.

Speaker, that also represents people that are on remand–are on remand month after month after month. They're not dropped from prosecutors' caseloads. So, on three scores, Mr. Speaker, in terms of the prosecutors, in terms of the jails and in terms of justice that should be dealt with in a speedy way, this two-for-one discount is wrong and we want you to join with us on this effort. Mr. McFadyen: And we agree with the point on the federal policy issue and we have supported those submissions along with the Conservative government in Alberta, Mr. Speaker, and the very capable Attorney General of Alberta. But, Mr.

Speaker, the fact is–the fact is that if we are successful in achieving this change, more people are going to spend more time in jail and only under NDP logic would more people spending more time in jail alleviate pressure on jails. It's complete nonsense when he talks about alleviating pressure on the jails. It is a complete red herring when he talks about the remand issue as a way of resolving pressure on jails. They want to put more people in jail for longer periods of time, which we support, but it means that the resources need to be there for the prosecutors, the jails and the police.

They're failing on the jails. They're failing with the prosecutors. Why, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Doer: Mr. Speaker, let me explain this to the member. If you had a person sentenced before, before the two-to-one discount–and I'm glad to see conversion here on this issue–before the two-to-one discount, if it was three years less a day and a person had six months in a remand centre, that would be considered to be one year and it would be two years less a day and then the person would end up (

a) in the provincial system longer on the remand and (

b) he would end up in a provincial jail instead of being sentenced to Stony Mountain, a federal penitentiary. The second point of that, Mr. Speaker, even though we've added–even though we've added 29 new prosecutors, a considerable amount of prosecutors–[interjection] Yes, I'll pull out my glasses; we're only human. I know the member opposite is perfect, but I'll pull out my glasses. Twenty-nine new prosecutors–[interjection] Yes, it's a lot easier than bringing it this close, I agree. Thank you very much for that help. I am on the back nine of life.

Instead of adding–the prosecutors are spending time with remand cases, case after case after case. It's no lawyer left behind. I say take on the lawyers and stand with the public in terms of the remand two-to- one policy, Mr. Speaker. Mr. McFadyen: Mr. Speaker, with that–the Premier says he's in the back nine of life. When you listen to these responses, it sounds like he's spent far too much time on the 19th hole, because the fact is–the fact is–the fact is that we have asked his department for the analysis that would show that it would relieve

October 7, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3699 pressure on the provincial jail system and they failed to provide it. And the fact is that whether it is provincial or federal, the issue is that if they're going to put more people in jail for longer periods of time, then you're going to have pressure on the system. And even with the numbers that we're at now, Mr. Speaker, if we're successful on the issue of two for one, the overcrowding will, will continue.

The issue needs to be dealt with in the jails, but the issue also are the numbers just released, right at the very end of session by his Minister of Justice (Mr. Chomiak), that show caseloads of 319 for prosecutors in the department, a staggering caseload. Three years after we began to raise the issue, they are–it is a staggering caseload that came from his own correspondence, dated October 2nd. I want to ask him: Why haven't they put the resources in place to keep Manitobans safe from violence and gang activity? * (13:50) Mr. Doer: Well, Mr.

Speaker, the holier-than-thou member opposite–there's been a few sightings of the member opposite in a few 19th hole settings as well, but I, on the other hand, am not perfect. I've had the odd drink in a bar and I–and I like to say I never drink and drive after. Mr. Speaker, dealing– [interjection] And, of course, Mr. Speaker, this is the member that had his anti-crime ads in Earls bar, on the Earls bar door. I mean, so we don't need any lectures from member opposite about the quote, 19th–what is it called? The 19th hole. Mr.

Speaker, more prosecutors, more police officers, a hundred correct ional officers that the member voted against, spoke against, and not only that, we're putting money into the city of Winnipeg to open up inner city recreation centres, were closed on evenings and weekends. That's something the Tories don't believe in. They don't believe in putting money into recreation that'll allow kids to go to sports places and Internets in the inner city. That's something we believe in; they never did. Correctional Facilities Overcrowding Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr.

Speaker, the ambassador to the Pony Corral seems a little sensitive on this particular issue. But he and his– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Remind members once again when addressing another member in the House it's by member's constituency or ministers by the portfolio they hold. Mr. Goertzen: I withdraw the comment "ambassador to the Pony Corral." Mr. Speaker, the Premier and his fly-to-Ottawa Minister of Justice are ignoring jail guards who want a new prison for their protection and for the protection of all Manitobans.

Instead of action, they've thrown out a number of phony excuses as to why jails are overcrowded. Yet, more than three years ago, federal Justice officials said publicly that the coming changes related to enforcement, to mandatory minimum sentences and to changes in conditional sentences at the federal level would push the numbers in provincial jails up. That was three years ago. Why did this Minister of Justice choose to ignore the warning from federal officials the numbers were going to go up in provincial prisons? Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): And as a result of that federal initiative, the provincial ministers undertook initiative of needs and requirements in the system. It was provided to the federal government, which they conveniently tabled. Mr. Speaker, I make no apologies for going with my colleague from Alberta. I make no apologies for going to Ottawa and trying to get the two-for-one discount changed. My predecessor tried, I tried for three years; we're finally getting a little bit closer. The two-for-one, people won't have to–you know, I think the public gets it.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Chomiak: You shouldn't get a discount for two days in remand on sentence. It would make a big difference. Thirteen hundred prisoners in our system are on remand–on remand after remand. That's gotta change. We want it to change. I'm glad you might join us to make that change. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: Federal official s warned this Minister of Justice three years ago that the numbers would be going up, and he ignored the warning, and now we see the riots, and now we see the tinder box situation. There's another issue. You know, more

3700 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 7, 2009 than 70 percent–more than 70 percent of prisoners who leave Headingley ar e charged with another offence within two years. Th ey come in and they go out. They come in, they go out and they're right back two years later. Prisoners come back to jail faster than this Minister of Justice flies off to Ottawa. Why has this Minister of Justice failed to reduce recidivism in Manitoba? That's a significant reason why our jails are tinder boxes ready to explode. Why didn't he take care of the issue when he had the chance, Mr. Speaker? Mr. Chomiak: You know, Mr.

Speaker, I'll never quite understand the members opposite, why they don't support–why they don't support, for example, on auto theft, when we wanted a change to auto theft, if someone's out stealing a car and they get arrested first time, we cannot hold them in custody. That means they go out and steal again and again and again. We've tried to have that provision changed. We– and we have found the stats that, unfortunately, when we have those people in custody, auto thefts go down. They've gone down 60 percent because of a comprehensive program that we put in place that members opposite were against.

When we put in programs–when we put in programs to reduce auto theft to keep people off the street, the members were against it. You can't have it both ways. You can't say, lock them up, and then, when we lock them up, say, you have too many locked up, Mr. Speaker. Selkirk Mental Health Facility Overcrowding Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Well, Mr. Speaker, this governmen t is failing across the spectrum of incarceration. Joey Wiebe brutally killed his mother in 2000 in Niverville, Manitoba. As a result, he's been serving his sentence at the Selkirk Mental Health Centre, and what a time he's been having.

Despite his horrendous crime and a previous escape , he was able to recently obtain at Selkirk drugs, a knife, alcohol and strike up a relationship with a female employee who took him on trips outside of the facility. Can the Minister of Justice explain how security at the Selkirk Mental Health Centre was so lax that Mr. Wiebe, a murderer, was able to obtain drugs, booze, weapons and women? Hon. Kerri Irvin-Ross (Acting Minister of Justice): This–forensic patients are under the jurisdiction of the Criminal Code Review Committee.

They make the decisions about the–what the patients will be permitted to do, along with the treatment team. We have made investments in the security at Selkirk Mental Health Centre. We have invested in better lighting, in more security guards, and I must add, that because of those security– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Ms. Irvin-Ross: –systems that we have in place, that's how this was able to be uncovered. Thank you. Manitoba Hydro Advertising Campaign Costs Mr. Cliff Cullen (Turtle Mountain): Mr.

Speaker, Manitobans get suspicious when one of our Crown corporations spends money on self-congratulatory campaigns. And I want to reference for the House a Manitoba Hydro insert, Know Your Hydro, which appeared in many papers early this summer. Manitoba Hydro spent $341,000 on this single advertising campaign to tell Manitobans how things were going. Ironically, this was at a time when export revenues are down almost 40 percent for the first quarter of this year from last year. Mr.

Speaker, was this 341,000 public relations exercise designed to deflect from the whistle-blower allegations and the Auditor General's investigation of Manitoba Hydro? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Min ister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Hydro Act): The member opposite is concerned about ads. Well, I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, Manitoba Hydro and this government are concerned about energy consumption. They–we want to see more energy efficient homes, and the money–the money that Manitoba Hydro is spending is resulting in savings for the consumer.

It's resulting in the ability for us to export more hydro and increase revenues from [inaudible] Mr. Speaker, the member opposite is wrong when he says that Hydro shouldn't be able to do advertising. They are doing some very important programming, and many, many Manitobans are taking advantage of these programs.

October 7, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3701 Manitoba Hydro Bipole III Location Costs Mr. Cliff Cullen (Turtle Mountain): Well, Mr. Speaker, here are the facts. We have the Public Utilities Board concerned about the level of risk at Hydro. We have Manitoba Hydro concealing risk analysis reports. We have the Auditor General investigating whistle-blower allegations of improper financial forecasting. Now we have the Hydro dog-and-pony show crossing the province trying to justify this government's decision on the west-side line.

Can the minister justify the $4 million that's spent promoting their west-side decision? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Min ister charged with the administration of Th e Manitoba Hydro Act): You know, Mr. Speaker, the true colours of the members opposite is coming out. What we know is the members opposite really hate Manitoba Hydro. If they had their way, they would privatize the Hydro corporation. Mr. Speaker, when the Conservatives were in power, all hydro development was mothballed, all was mothballed. Under this administration, the hydro dams are going up, the Bi pole III line is going forward.

The member opposite shouldn't be so squirrelly about Hydro and should admit what he really feels about it. Mr. Cullen: Well, Mr. Speaker, let's talk about the granddaddy of waste. In reference to–I reference a letter here, September 20th, 2007, sent by the Minister of Hydro–that's the member for St. Boniface (Mr. Selinger)–to the Manitoba Hydro board. It's a four-page directive to build Bipole III on the west side of the province. Five days later, Manitoba Hydro issues a news release indicating a line will be built on the west side.

As a result, each and every Manitoban is gonna be forced to pay hundreds of millions of dollars extra. * (14:00) This represents a legacy of over $2,000 for every family in Manitoba. Can the minister justify that decision? Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, the decision to move forward with Bipole III is one that we have–we announced that we would do it. We announced that we were doing it on the west side of the province. We announced it during the election.

This is not news, and this is–this is based on advice that Hydro has been given, that Manitoba–the government has been given, that we have to have a way to manage risk. We have to have a way to manage security of supply to ensure that we can continue to meet our exports demands, and the member opposite should recognize that this is a very valuable corporation and water is a very valuable resource. Other people have oil. We have water, and it's a wonderful clean resource, and we will continue to generate revenue from it. Budget Deficit Forecast Mr. Rick Borotsik (Brandon West): Mr.

Speaker, it's not often that I feel sorry for an NDP Cabinet minister 'cause we know that all of the NDP Cabinet ministers, through their own mismanagement, certainly cause their own misfortune, but I do feel sorry for the new Finance Mi nister, 'cause you see, the first quarter financials and the Dominion Bond Rating Service tell us that we're going to have a $600-million deficit in the province of Manitoba this year. We also know, Mr. Speaker, that equalization payments next year are going to be reduced by about $400 million.

Even if the Province uses its entire rainy day fund, it can't c over the forecast deficit for this year and a drastic drop in equalization. How will the Minister of Finance cover that $1-billion shortfall? Hon. Rosann Wowchuk (Minister of Finance): Well, I will assure the member he doesn't have to feel sorry for me, Mr. Speak er. He doesn't have to feel sorry for me one bit. I feel sorry that he is part of a party that didn't put all the numbers on the books. When they were in office, they kept two sets of books. Our government has moved forward. We have one set of books.

All of the information is there, and I can assure the member that we will address the issues that he is so concerned about. I would say maybe he should talk to his federal cousins and talk about why equalization is being reduced, but I'm proud of the way the economy in Manitoba is going, and I'm proud to be a Manitoban. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr. Borotsik: You're right, Mr. Speaker, I don't feel sorry for the new Finance Minister; I feel sorry for Manitoba taxpayers. I feel sorry for our children who are gonna pay the debt that they have incurred. The Premier (Mr.

Doer)–the Premier and the previous Finance Minister caused the problems. They're

3702 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 7, 2009 leaving, but this new Finance Minister is going to be staying. We know that the Finance Minister gutted the balanced budget legislation. We know that they're depending on this

summary budget, which they identified a $48-mllion surplus, which is lost. We're gonna have a $600-million loss. Cabinet ministers have to give up 20 percent of their ministerial salary if they can't balance the budget. Is this Finance Minister gonna tell her colleagues that they're gonna lose 20 percent of their salary, and when is she going to tell them that? Ms. Wowchuk: Well, Mr. Speaker, I'll stand by my record and our record on this side of the House versus the comments on the other side of the House. This government has been in power for 10 years, brought 10 budgets in, and they have all been balanced.

They've all been balanced. The Leader of the–Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. McFady en) said that we were gonna drain the rainy day fund. In three-years' time, the rainy day fund will be– An Honourable Member: He said that in 2006. Ms. Wowchuk: He said it in 2006. There's more money in the rainy day fund.

We've quadrupled the rainy day fund, and we will continue to work in the best interests of Manitobans, and we will make investments as we did in this budget–capital investments–so that Manitobans can continue to work so that there will be infrastructure that will be– help lead us in this economy, and we are proud to be Manitobans. Mr. Borotsik: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Official Opposition (Mr. McFadyen) is, in fact, right. The rainy day fund will be exhausted and the Premier– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Mr.

Borotsik: –will be in Washington and not giving a care about Manitobans at that point. Mr. Speaker, this Finance Minister has to come up. She's gonna wear it. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance: How will she come up with the additional cash when she doesn't have a rainy day fund? How is she going to do it? Is she gonna increase taxes? Are you going to increase the $21 billion worth of debt? Are you gonna raid the Crowns or are you simply gonna cut spending? How are you gonna do it? Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr.

Speaker, the Finance critic now is supporting the statement made in this House in Hansard in writing by the Leader of the Opposition that the rainy day fund, as of 2006, would be drained in three years under the current NDP government. It's now the three years later. Is the rainy day fund drained? Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Doer: Is the rainy day fund reduced? Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Doer: Is the rainy day fund increased under our– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Some Honourable Members: Yes. Mr. Doer: Who's right? Some Honourable Members: We are. Mr. Doer: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Order. Economy Government Forecast Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Carman): Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Competitivenes s, Training and Trade is attending the federal-provincial-territorial conference in Whitehorse on October 15th. The minister's message within Manitoba is how good we are doing as a province, yet he is quoted in the Brandon Sun as saying, and I quote: When I'm sitting down in a room with Stephen Harper I'm going to make Manitoba's situation look as dire as possible–as I possibly can to get every possible cent out of the feds. Mr.

Speaker, which message will this minister take to Whitehorse? Hon. Andrew Swan (Minis ter of Competitiveness, Training and Trade): Well, thank you, Mr. Speaker, and what I will do certainly in speaking to ministerial colleagues and the federal minister is tell him about the good things that are going on in Manitoba. One place I'd like to look at is job numbers. I know the Conservatives aren't concerned about how many people in Manitoba are employed, but New Democrats are. And I'll be quite happy to remind everybody in the country, whether it's in a ministerial meeting, whether it's publicly, whether it's in this

October 7, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3703 House, that in the past year Manitoba's led the country with the best private sector job growth. In the entire country over the past year we've gained 4,500 jobs while the rest of the country has lost 322,000. So I hope that helps the member for Carman to understand a little bit better just how well Manitoba's doing, relative to other Canadian provinces. Mr. Pedersen: Mr. Speaker, just to add to clarity, the minister has committed to reopening the east versus west bipole discussion.

The minister has also quoted in the Brandon Sun as saying, and I quote: I don't think we have the leadership necessary to get Hydro to do the things we need to build more wind power. Now, the minister seems to have one message for in Manitoba and another message for outside of Manitoba. How does the minister expect to be taken seriously when talking to his counterparts across Canada with such mixed messages? * (14:10) Mr.

Swan: Well, thank you, and certainly when I attend the meeting on internal trade I'll be certainly talking about how this Province has shown great leadership in advancing a national–a national trade agenda. Now, I know–I know that chattering heads over on the Conservative side would rather us enter into a trade deal only with Alberta and only with British Columbia, and I know they would put all of Manitoba's interests on the back burner. But I'm very proud of this Premier (Mr.

Doer) and this government for having been the leaders on the national stage to make sure that we do have an effective trade agreement, which is going to benefit all Canadians and look at a national perspective. So I'll take a national perspective over any narrow perspective the member for Carman may want to try and put on the record this afternoon. Mr. Pedersen: Mr. Speaker, I'm just–I'm just repeating what I was reading: east-side or west-side bipole, Hydro mismanagement, begging in Ottawa.

Other governments in Canada will not see Manitoba as a serious competitor when this minister cannot produce a definite position within his own government. How does this minister expect to have any credibility with other provinces and territories with the confusion the minister has created here at home? Mr. Swan: Mr. Speaker, I'm sorry the member for Carman is confused. It seems to happen quite a bit, and I'll see if I can clear it up. There is going to be a third bipole built in Manitoba. It's going down the west side, and that's the correct thing to do.

And, in terms of wind power, I know we hear a lot– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Order. Mr. Swan: Well, thank you, and there was another example of how the Conservative Party is doing its own part to increase wind power, but that's actually not going to be useful to the province of Manitoba. I'm very excited about the future as we continue to expand wind power. I do believe we can do more and make sure there is more wind power being generated in the province of Manitoba.

And I'm looking forward to the next six, 10, 14 years of NDP government in Manitoba so we continue to build wind power and other renewable energy across this province. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Lake Water Levels Government Response to Community Flooding Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Mr. Speaker, the utter incompetence of the Minister of Conservation (Mr. Struthers) and the Minister of Water Stewardship have left people in misery as a result of the high water levels at Thomas Lake, Jackfish Lake, Salt Lake and Sandy Lake. Mr.

Speaker, homes and cottages remain flooded, farmland under wa ter, feed supplies ruined and rotting in the lake and trees bordering the lakes are dying. Municipal roads remain under water and now water supplies are being contaminated. Mr. Speaker, I want to ask this government whether perhaps the Pr emier (Mr. Doer) can motivate his Minister of Conservation or the Minister of Water Stewardship to do something to relieve the misery of the people in the communities of Strathclair, Rolling River Reserve, Sandy Lake and the Elphinstone area around Thomas Lake.

Can the Premier perhaps motivate his ministers to do something to relieve the misery of these people who have been suffering all summer long? Hon. Christine Melnic k (Minister of Water Stewardship): Mr. Speaker, we have been working with residents around the province. We have been working with the R.M. of Strathclair. The member knows well that there have been several meetings. The R.M. is responsible for dealing with water issues

3704 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 7, 2009 under their purview, and they are working on that. We are there in an advisory role, and we are there helping them come up with ideas to resolve the current issues. We've been working with them all summer, and we'll continue to work with them as well as other Manitobans. Again, this has been a very high water year throughout the province, and we have been working very closely with many communities on issues such as these. Mr. Derkach: Well, Mr.

Speaker, once again this minister demonstrates her incompetence by the answer that she has just given, because the only thing that she has done and her department have done for the residents of Strathclair is they have forced the R.M. of Strathclair to spend $50,000 on an environmental study that won't be completed this year, and yet the lake levels remain high, farmlands are flooded, hay supplies are in water, homes are being flooded, water supplies are being contaminated. And this minister, what is her answer? Her answer is to do an environmental study that will take months, Mr. Speaker.

Winter is approaching; snow levels will come. What is going to happen next spring when exceedingly high water levels are going to force an emergency situation in that area while this minister sits on her duff? Ms. Melnick: Well, we can all remember the 1990s when drainage was just run roughshod over. There were very few water reso urce officers. There were very few resources for individuals and communities to work with when it came to high and low water levels. Members opposite are showing they haven't learned that there has to be restrictions, that there has to be regulation on water.

Of course, they would remove all the water regs, Mr. Speaker, we know that. Again, they're showin g their incompetence and their irresponsibility by not following through on structured and organized ways to deal with high and low water levels throughout this province. We're still cleaning up your mess. Mr. Derkach: I wish that she would come out to meet with the communities of Strathclair, Rolling River and the people who are suffering in misery as a result of her inactivity, Mr. Speaker.

One of the reasons this minister's department gave Strathclair– why they could not drain the water, was because the contamination of one lake was higher than it was in a lake below that lake. Actually, when the results came in, they were exactly opposite. Still, the minister would not allow this water to be drained off so that residents could carry on with their livelihoods. Mr. Speaker, I ask this Premier (Mr.

Doer) when he's going to take some action and ensure that his ministers do the right thing and not leave Manitobans suffering in misery because of high water levels and water wells that are being contaminated. Ms. Melnick: Well, again, Mr. Speaker, it's important to follow process. The member opposite has given an example of why it's important to follow the process. Again, it's important that we protect our waterways. Members opposite, I suppose, would just open the floodgates and let water flow all over this province, as they did in the 1990s. That's not responsible.

That's not respectful to the people downstream who would be affected. That's not showing responsibility to the R.M.s who are serious about dealing with their water situations in the short and long term. I'll stick with our process any day over their wild, madcap, wild, wild west approach to letting water run anywhere throughout this province. Plastic Checkout Bags Ban Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): My question's for the Premier. Every year hundreds of millions of plastic bags enter into our landfill site. You'll often see them in our streets, our sidewalks, blown in trees, and so forth, Mr. Speaker.

You know, this morning I had the pleasure to meet with a number of children from Weston School and those children have seen something in which we believe the government should be looking at, and that is the need to ban the plastic bags. By banning the plastic bags, it is a good thing for our environment, Mr. Speaker, and the children of Weston have recognized that value. My question to the Premier today is: Will the Premier not stand with me in acknowledging and supporting the need to ban plastic bags in the province of Manitoba, thereby, Mr.

Speaker, allowing Manitobans in future generations a much healthier environment? Hon. Stan Struthers (Min ister of Conservation): In the Throne Speech last year, we very clearly put out the strategy that we were going to pursue. It was

October 7, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3705 a practical, doable strategy that has been working, Mr. Speaker. We are going to reduce the number of plastic bags in this province. We're going to ban plastic bags that can't be recycled and that can't be reused. We see signs already that, working with industry on this, has resulted in a reduction: 1.5 million fewer bags ordered by Manitoba grocery stores already, just in the '08 year–at the beginning of the '08 year. So we see results already in reducing the number of plastic bags that we in society have to put up with out on the landscape. Mr.

Lamoureux: I think that we need to realize that there are hundreds of millions of plastic bags, and the government has an option. There are children– and we have children in our gallery this afternoon from Weston School. They would like to see the Premier (Mr. Doer) stand in his place and say that, we too, like the children of our province, recognize the value of banning plastic bags. Mr. Speaker, they're looking to the Premier of this province to take action, to stand up and say that he supports banning plastic bags, thereby supporting a healthier and cleaner environment for the province of Manitoba.

Will he join the children in the gallery and children across the province by supporting the banning of plastic bags? * (14:20) Mr. Struthers: Well, I'm really very pleased that there are people from the province here and children here at the Legislature to take

part in a very important debate, Mr. Speaker. I think we should recognize that. I think we should recognize that we need to have a strategy in place that'll work, not the one that the Liberal Party keeps puttin g forward. The strategy needs to be doable. We've s hown that there's a better way to go in reducing the number of plastic bags. Banning the plastic bags that can't be reduced or that we can't recycle, I think that makes good sense, Mr.

Speaker, and will get us to the point where we have a major reduction over the next period of time in terms of 50 percent of the plastic bags that we can get rid of from this province. So, Mr. Speaker, we're pursuing a strategy that will work, rather than one that sounds good but probably won't work. Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, the government should not be applauding non-action. Let me provide, you know, for reference purposes, reference purposes–you know, you can't tell the difference between a plastic bag and a bio bag. So I would like to provide the minister– Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. Order. Order. Order.

Order. Order. Order. All members have been in the House long enough. They should know that exhibits are not allowed in this Chamber. The honourable member, continue with your question without exhibits, please. Mr. Lamoureux: Yes, Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Premier, and I look to the Premier to actually answer the question, not to be scared, but to actually answer the question. The question I have for the Premier, Mr. Speaker, is to stand up and tell not only the children of our province but all Manitobans why it is that we do not ban plastic bags. There are alternatives in place.

We do not have to be using plastic bags. Why does the Premier not recognize what not only the children have recognized, but all Manitobans recognize that there is an alternative. It's better for our envir onment; it's healthier for the whole system. Will the Premier not do the right thing, stand up today and say he is committed to banning plastic bags? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Gary Doer (Premier): Mr. Speaker, thank you for the children for bein g here today and working hard on behalf of our planet. We believe in reducing waste.

Waste in the form of plastic bags and in other forms is not good for our environment. The first way to reduce waste is reduce use of the waste to begin with. Now, it was easy for us to do it at the Liquor Commission. We were the first government in Canada to eliminate plastic bags at the Liquor Commission. We were the first one to do it. But the retail sector in Manitoba said, let us work to reduce either paper bags or/and plastic bags by having reusable bags, Mr. Speaker.

Now, if you stand in a Sobeys store or a Safeway store or a Superstore today, you will see almost 50 percent of the people in those lines using bags that are reusable. And I want to thank the young people for making all of us aware so our parents and ourselves can use and re-use bags over and over and over again. The member opposite would ban plastic and we'd have more paper. We would rather ban bags when we can re-use bags over and over and over again. That's why he's simplistic and that's why we're

3706 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 7, 2009 trying to work with everyone, including the young people, to reduce our use of waste, Mr. Speaker. SafetyAid Program Expansion Ms. Marilyn Brick (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, yesterday afternoon I attended a meeting at Richmond Kings Community Centre along with over 100 residents from Fort Richmond, St. Norbert and Fort Garry. I was very happ y to be surrounded by so many people interested in improving services for their neighbours and anyone living in south Winnipeg who fall into the 55-plus age group.

Our government has been working hard to ensure older adults enjoy the ability to age in place regardless of their financial situation. Can the Minister responsible for Seniors please update the House on changes that will be taking place with the seniors programs to ensure th at seniors feel safe in their home? Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Hon. Kerri Irvin-Ross (Minister responsible for Seniors): Since 2003, the Department of Justice and the Department of Health and Healthy Living have been working together to implement a program called SafetyAid that ensures that seniors can live in their homes safely.

And what we do provide are safety audits to those hom es, and every year since then we have expanded that service throughout Manitoba. And, today, after question period, I will be announcing a further expansion to northwestern Interlake regions of Manitoba: Flin Flon, The Pas, Opaskwayak Cree Nation, Arborg, Ashern, Fisher River, Gimli, Peguis, Selkirk and Stonewall. These initiatives will continue to provide an age-friendly environment so Manitoba seniors can age in place. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Baldur Regals Mr. Cliff Cullen (Turtle Mountain): Mr.

Speaker, I'm pleased to rise in the House today to congratulate and recognize the accomplishments of the Baldur Regals of Baldur, Manitoba. The Baldur Regals have been a competitive senior baseball team in the area since 1970, currently playing in the Border West Baseball League. The Regals also had the opportunity to compete in the Manitoba Senior Baseball League for a number of years. The Baldur Regals have had much success over the years, most recently with back-to-back league titles and back-to-back AA provincial championships in the 2008 and 2009 seasons.

Baldur has been known as a baseball community for many years and has been fortunate to field a team of mostly local players. Th e team is capably coached by Gerry Janz and managed by Tim Reykdal, both of whom have two sons on the team. The current team roster includes four sets of brothers. In August 2009, Coach Janz had the opportunity to take the core of his team to Peace River, Alberta, to compete in the western championships. A number of neighbouring ball players were added to the roster for this tournament, and they went on and earned the title of 2009 western champions.

The Baldur Regals are known for their sportsmanship and camaraderie both on and off the field. The Regals benefit from tremendous family and fan support. This Friday evening I am honoured to attend–to be attending the Baldur Regals Appreciation Evening where the community of Baldur and surrounding area will celebrate the success of their local team and athletes. Mr. Speaker, I ask all the members here today to join me in congratulating the Baldur Regals on their back-to-back successes as league champions and provincial champions as well as being crowned western Canadian champions.

I extend my best wishes for a fun and safe celebration at the Baldur Recreation Centre Friday October 9th, 2009. Thank you. Western Canadian Music Awards Mr. Drew Caldwell (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, Brandon recently had the pleasure of hosting the Western Canadian Music Awards. The weekend of September 18th to the 20th was a raucous celebration of music, community and the spirit of the Prairies as Brandon welcomed music lovers from Saskatchewan, Alberta, British Columbia, the Yukon and beyond.

The seventh annual Western Canadian Music Awards kicked off with the Brandon University Students' Union Rock the Block street party. It was followed by a parade of events including concerts at seven different venues, a songwriters' circle, various workshops and an industry conference. The weekend culminated on Sunday–on Sunday evening as the artistic awards were handed out at the Manitoba– Western Manitoba Centennial Auditorium. Manitoba artists delighted the host city by winning nine awards, including a number of the most prestigious categories, including best country recording by

October 7, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3707 Doc Walker and songwriter of the year, which was won by Romi Mayes. An event of such scale is years in the making and is a perfect–and its perfect execution is a testament to the talent and determination of many. The initiative and leadersh ip of Brandon First and the Brandon host committee was invaluable. The corporate citizens who supported the event are to be lauded for their recognition of the value of music and of our regional culture.

The scores of volunteers who donated their time, energy and enthusiasm made the event possible and stood as symbols of Brandon's civic pride. Mr. Speaker, my gratitude is extended to all who contributed to the success of the Western Canadian Music Awards in Brandon. We look forward to hosting more national events in the future. Thank you. Southwest Manitoba Health-Care Needs Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Mr. Speaker, it's my privilege to stand today to speak to the health-care needs of southwest Manitoba.

I had the opportunity of receivi ng a group of petitions from a Concerned Citizens for Quality Health Care group in Virden that was led by Mr. David Jordan and co-chaired by Rick Plaisier as well, and many, many others in this committee for the community. Subsequent to the meeting that we held last August in Virden, where 600 people turned out to show their concern about the lack of doctors and nurses in the region, we have had some response and received some doctors in that area.

Melita community is also concerned about the lack of doctors and ability to keep their emergency room services open as well, al though it has been through the graciousness of the one local doctor that they were able to keep their health-care emergency services open from Monday to Friday at this point as well. * (14:30) My point is, it's been very intermittent, Mr. Speaker, in that community. Today, I will table the– I'd like to table the petitions that the Concerned Citizens for Quality Health Care provided me, and I would like those presented to the Minister of Health (Ms. Oswald) as well.

And I wanted to say that there are 1,579 signatures on these documents and that shows a great deal of concern. Some of these people are in Saskatchewan, as I' ve made the point earlier, that they want to see this facility established and expanded in Virden as well. The petition that I've put forward today is also–it's a petition that this group of people put together. I've read a few of the petitions in the House to date, but due to the end of the session, I wanted to make sure that the minister had all of these signatures and persons in her hands.

The concern is that it's the only active hospital servicing a large area in Virden and that there are a lot of people who were seeking doctor and nurse services in Moosomin and that there's a chronic shortage of doctors in that Virden area, and so many people go to Moosomin as well to see family physicians as well as having those physicians come to those areas. They want to increase the number of doctors. They want to see a walk-in clinic established in Virden. They want specialized health care in Virden, and they'd like to see the emergency room re-open, Mr. Speaker. Thank you very much.

Island Lakes Community School Expansion Ms. Erin Selby (Southdale): Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to rise today to draw members' attention to the recent completion of an important expansion in Island Lakes Community School. The project is representative of the growth and vibrancy of Island Lakes and the larger Sout hdale area. Announced in 2007 in response to growing class sizes, the $1.3-million expansion project consists of four gleaming new classrooms. The classes combine to add 5,400 square feet of space in which our young students can learn and grow.

Consequently, class sizes have been reduced and pressure on the music and computer rooms has been eased. The investment in the Island Lakes Community School is a key component in a multiyear $135-million capital plan designed by our provincial government to further strengthen our educational infrastructure. The Island Lakes Community School which teaches students from kindergarten to grade 8 opened in 2001 and is among the largest elementary schools in the Louis Riel School Division.

Southdale's diverse selection of community programs, networks and activities combine to make it an alluring neighbourhood in which to raise a family. Our provincial government has, over the last decade, shown an impressive responsiveness in matching significant infrastructure spending with community needs and ensuring that quality of life only increases with demographic growth. Mr. Speaker, I'm excite d to announce the new classrooms at Island Lakes Community School and

3708 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 7, 2009 am proud to be part of an energetic and progressive neighbourhood. Thank you. Plastic Checkout Bags Ban Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr. Speaker, around the world the momentum is building to ban single-use plastic bags made from petrochemicals. They're cluttering up our landfill sites, polluting our waters and causing increasing problems around the world. In Manitoba alone hundreds of millions of plastic bags end up in our landfill sites every year. They take a long, long time to break down, and when they break down they leave toxic chemicals behind.

From Mumbai, India, to Leaf Rapids, Manitoba, communities have acted to ban plastic bags. China has banned plastic bags. The movement and momentum is growing. It's time for us to act in Manitoba. While the NDP government has been trying to move in a convoluted fashion, they've missed the point. Huge numbers of plastic bags continue to be used in our province. The simplest and best action is to ban plastic bags.

I want to congratulate Don Woodstock, Sobeys stores, the David Suzuki Foundation, Bear Springs Blossom Nature Conservation and all the others who came together September 12th of this year to mount an effort at the Manitoba Legislature to visually show the impact of plastic bags. I want to congratulate all those who brought plastic bags and particularly the students of Weston School who are here in the gallery. They demonstrate that young people in Manitoba are environmentally conscious and want to do a better job of taking care of our environment.

I hope that September 12th becomes the international day to ban plastic bags, and while Liberals are acting on the will of Manitobans, the NDP are not. While people like Don Woodstock are leading the charge to ban plastic bags in Manitoba, people like the NDP MLA for Southdale (Ms. Selby) are not listening to the calls of their constituents and are continuing to block passage of legislation to ban plastic bags in Manitoba. It's time to act. It's time for all Manitobans to speak up for our environment.

Instead of the old way, instead of using petrochemical-based plastic bags, we should be using cloth bags and biodegradable recyclable bags made from products like cornstarch. Instead of the products of the past, let us use the products of the future and build the industries and services to the future as we build our wonderful province of Manitoba. GRIEVANCES Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for Russell, on a grievance? Mr. Leonard Derkach (Russell): Yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: On a grievance. Mr. Derkach: Well, Mr.

Speaker, today I stand before the House on a grievance on behalf of the people that I represent and on behalf of residents in the western side of the province who have suffered immeasurably as a result of the incompetence, the mismanagement and the inactivity of this government. Mr. Speaker, I speak specifically about the issues that relate to flooding in the area of Strathclair, Elphinstone, Sandy Lake and surrounding communities. The environmental damage that has been done as a result of government inactivity and mismanagement is astounding. Mr.

Speaker, it is unacceptable for us anywhere in this province to leave hay supplies rotting in water. That in itself causes phosphates and contaminants to enter the water supplies of these lakes, and yet this minister, because she would not allow water to be drained in a natural runway which flows into the Little Saskat chewan runway, or, Little Saskatchewan River–philosophically, she is opposed to that, and so, therefore, people in this area of the province suffer. Mr.

Speaker, we have, today, people living with their water supply–because they have to have water wells on their property–their water supply is contaminated because, again, this minister has refused to act to reduce the water levels. I can take you to the Rolling River reserve where we have a house that has about 20 feet around it that is not flooded, and residents in this house have been living like that for the entire summer. There is water in basements. There is water in wells. Farmland is flooded. There are hundreds of acres of farmland that haven't been able to be used. And, you know, Mr.

Speaker, I'll tell you how incompetent this minister is. When they were viewing fence posts in water that were only sticking up above the water about a foot, the response was that these farmers must have put these fence posts in and these fences in by boat. Well, how foolish can anybody get? This was pastureland that was grazed

October 7, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3709 by cattle in years previous, but because of unusually high water levels and because the government would not allow the water to flow, farmlands property was being damaged by the day, and continues to this very day. Mr. Speaker, this minister forced the municipality to close a ditch that had been opened up to allow the pressure of water to be relieved. As a result of closing that ditch, the water tore a gully through a farmer's property and entered into the natural channel that it was being prevented from entering by the department and by this minister. Mr.

Speaker, at Thomas Lake, we have cottages where the front steps are in water. A road that connects the development, the two developments along Thomas Lake, has been under water. The municipality has been hauling oversized rock to try to build up the road so that people could connect, and yet the minister does nothing. Mr. Speaker, we have a whole recreation vehicle campground that has been under water all summer long. People who had booked spots at this site have not been able to use it because it remains under water. Mr. Speaker, the minister did allow Sandy Lake to lower its water levels.

But, for whatever reason, in the R.M. of Harrison and the R.M. of Strathclair, those areas were not allowed to have one cup of water leave those lakes throughout the summer. Now, the minister said to us, oh, well, we have to get permission from landowners downstream. That was sought, and that was achieved, yet no action has been taken to date. And so, Mr. Speaker, the incompetence, the utter incompetence, of this minister and the Minister of Conservation (Mr.

Struthers), the utter mismanagement of this entire situation has left people in this side of the province suffering and in misery, and that should not happen. Mr. Speaker, if that happened on that minister's own property, I can rest–you can rest assured that there'd be action taken immediately, but this is an area that is distant from the city. People have tried to cope with this to their own best efforts, but it is getting to the point where they can't. * (14:40) Mr. Speaker, winter is approaching. We are going to have a snowfall. We don't know how much snowfall we're going to get through the winter.

But rest assured that next spri ng, there will be–this area will be applied for disaster assistance. They will be applying for disaster assistance because of the inactivity of the government this year. And yet all of this could have been resolved if the minister were prepared to work with those municipalities, the residents of that area and the people who understand what needs to be done. It's not as though, Mr . Speaker, there are no outflows from these lakes.

The outflows are there, but because, over the years, we have had low water levels, these outlets have b een either silted over or, because of activity, the earth has been brought into the channels and the water can't flow out. All you need to do is deepen some of these channels by six inches or perhaps a foot at the most, and the water is going to flow out slowly, it's not going to impact on anyone downstream because the water flows into natural creeks, natural runways and then into the Little Saskatchewan River and, of course, down into the Assiniboine.

But this is a government that would rather have people sit and suffer rather than to relieve their suffering and do what is right. Mr. Speaker, I listened to the minister, in her foolish remarks, talk about, oh, we have to be concerned about the flooding downstream and the flooding on other lands. Well, there is no flooding going to take place, that has already been determined.

The permission has been sought from the landowners that live along the small waterways, even the Keeseekoowenin Band where the small creek flows through, have signed off because they understand that these people have to have some relief to their misery and to their suffering. But this minister doesn't care, because she never goes out there. She never sees the suffering. She never sees the issues– An Honourable Member: Wrong. Mr. Derkach: – and the Minister of Justice (Mr. Chomiak) is wrong. No, she hasn't been out there, Mr. Speaker. I can tell you that she hasn't been out there. Mr.

Speaker, she has been pleaded with. She has been petitioned. She has been asked to help. Yet, she sits in her chair, but she's comfortable in the fact that, oh, this will go away, this will pass and things will carry on as they usually do. Well, we will not allow the minister nor this government to forget how they've abandoned their responsibility in an area which is suffering, today, unnecessarily.

3710 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 7, 2009 But, Mr. Speaker, there's more than that that I have to grieve. And I know I only have about two minutes left, but I want to raise one other issue. And that is the issue I raised with the Minister of Conservation (Mr. Struthers) yesterday regarding the tuberculosis on the west side of the province, in the cattle herds and in the elk. Mr. Speaker, the federal government has put a projection out that in a few years, with their activity, they are going to be able to eliminate the tuberculosis incidents in the Riding Mountain Park.

That's their jurisdiction; that's their responsibility. But, Mr. Speaker, outside of the park, on Crown lands, on farmlands, the deer population and the elk population are the responsibility of the provincial government. And so, therefore, cattle producers, the Manitoba Cattle Producers Association, landowners are asking this government what their plan is to reduce and to eliminate, eventually eliminate the incidents of TB in elk, which can be transferred to cattle, to livestock, and this is costing our producers, our livestock producers, millions of dollars a year. Now, Mr.

Speaker, the government has come up with a $6 per head musteri ng fee. That doesn't even come close to covering what the real costs are. And I know that first-hand because it happens that this year our herd is going to be tested, and it should be tested, because nobody wants to see this disease transferred to humans, and the only way that we can prevent it is to have an effective program that is going to work to ensure the elimination of this disease. But, Mr.

Speaker, when I asked the minister for his plan, for his plan to eliminate this disease on the western side of this province, he has no answers, he has no strategy, and I find that regrettable. I find that he, again, has abandoned the people that he is responsible for. He has abandoned the cattle producers and he's abandoned Manitobans, and it's costing Manitobans millions of dollars as a result. Thank you. ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon.

Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): I wonder if you'd call bills for concurrence and third reading, Bills No. 36, 31 and 35 in that order, please–Bill 36, Bill 31 and Bill 35. Mr. Speaker: Okay, orders of the day for government business this afternoon, we will deal with concurrence and third reading of Bill 36–in this order: 36, 31 and 35. CONCURRENCE AND THIRD READINGS Bill 36–The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act (Enhanced Compensation for Catastrophic Injuries) Mr.

Speaker: Okay, I'm gonna call concurrence and third reading of Bill No. 36, The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act (Enhanced Compensation for Catastrophic Injuries). Hon. Dave Chomiak (Minister charged with the administration of The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Act): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the minister of highways, Transportation and Infrastructure, that Bill No. 36, The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act (Enhanced Compensation for Catast rophic Injuries); Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la Société d'assurance publique du Manitoba (majoration de l'indemnisation en cas de lésions catastrophiques), reported from the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs, be concurred in and be now read for a third time and passed. Mr. Speaker: It's been moved by the honourable Attorney General, seconded by the honourable Minister for Infrastructur e and Transportation (Mr.

Lemieux), that Bill No. 36, The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act (Enhanced Compensation for Catastro phic Injuries), reported from the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs, be concurred in and be now read for a third time and passed. Mr. Cliff Graydon (Emerson): I'd like to put a few words on the record about Bill 36, and as you're quite well aware, that we brought forward a number of amendments to Bill 36. Those amendments were non-political amendments. They were brought forward to enhance the bill, not detract from it in any way.

It was unfortunate that the minister responsible for the bill chose not to vote for them, actually instructed his caucus and backbenchers to speak against it and to vote against the amendments, Mr. Speaker. In regarding Bill 36, there was a catastrophic definition that was supposed to define "catastrophic," and one of the individuals that had made a presentation to the committee made a very, a very good presentation, an in-depth, well-thought-out presentation from a personal experience, and her recommendation was a whole-person impairment of

October 7, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3711 a brain-injured claimant. And she said: Please be aware Mr. Chomiak's comments at the committee which was–and that–this will be considered in review of the bill. Mr. Chairman, as we went forward– Mr. Speaker: Order. Order. When addressing a member in the House, it's members by their constituency or ministers by their titles, not by their names, please. Mr. Graydon: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I meant to say the Minister responsible for MPI. But the minister's comment in committee was: that this will be considered in review of the bill.

That was a comment that he made to the presenter, and, quite frankly, Mr. Speaker, when the amendment was brought forward, the minister paid no attention to it. So Manitoba Public Insurance is failing the most vulnerable and the catastrophically injured people. Marilyn McLaren, who is the CEO and the president of MPI, recently published a letter in the Free Press that is blatantly false and neglects the realities that Manitobans must face in dealing with a catastrophic automobile collision. Ms. McLaren continues by criticizing a Free Press editorial that accurately describes MPI as failing.

MPI's CEO, obviously, is unaware of the intentions of the MPI legislation, which is to provide insurance so that individuals, as much as practical, can live as they did before the accident. * (14:50) Ms. Jennifer Howard, Acting Speaker, in the Chair The debate during this time when the legislation was introduced clearly indicated this intention. MPI's own brochures and propaganda states this principle. There is no point to having insurance if the insurance company simply is going to rely on services already provided by a government.

Insurance is just that: insurance to protect one from catastrophically–from catastrophic injuries. MPI fails the legislation the Doer government has introduced. Tragically, people who are injured in car accidents under MPI legislation are doomed to fail in life without proper support. The issue is that personal injury protection plan is not fulfilling its original intention of helping catastrophically injured people reaching the level of indepe ndent quality of life as much as possible as if they had not had an accident.

A recent court ruling by a chief justice of Manitoba describes MPI coverage as wholly inadequate in dealing with the costs of attendant care. Premier Doer promised to fix the situation. Instead, the Premier has introduced legislation that will do nothing in practical terms to address the issue. As the Free Press editorial correctly stated, the insurance is enough for a catastrophically injured person to remain housebound for life instead of pursuing dreams and ambitions with caregiver help. Ms.

McLaren continues by getting in a false argument between a litigious court system of 1980s which brought down the Pawley NDP government in 1986 versus a no-fault system of today. Remember that, Mr. Minister. The no-fault system was introduced to ensure that the catastrophically injured people would receive the care needed and deserved. In exchange for this coverage, Manitobans agreed to forgo their right to sue MPI, the assumption being that MPI would begin to look at victims from their perspective and have the ability to compensate their economic and health-care needs. That is why

section 138 of the MPI is flexible without caps. What was not anticipated is that MPI would continue its litigiously tort mentality from the past and apply it in a no-fault system where MPI has all the powers. This leaves the average person on the street with little recourse. Those people who have to deal with MPI well know that MPI has a battalion of lawyers ready to crush anyone who has the audacity to challenge MPI's Orwellian will.

A few brave souls have tried to challenge MPI but are faced with the incredible challenge of doing so without a lawyer or the resources to pay for a lawyer while their premium dollars are paying for MPI's legal hit squad. Not surprising, MPI wins every time. MPI's obligations are being subsidized by Manitoba Health, and due to the fact that Manitoba relies on over 40 percent of its budget from the federal transfers, MPI's being subsidized by taxpayers of Alberta and other have provinces.

The legislation introduced by the NDP undermines the principle of no-fault insurance further by introducing artificial lifetime caps on benefits: why someone who is in their 20s with 60 years to live is faced with the same cap as someone in their 90s. The caps, particularly over time, insecure captivity–ensure captivity for anyone who is catastrophically injured. Equally important is

3712 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 7, 2009 that there are no guidelines or appeal process with which to access the $1-million cap. If the NDP government does not straighten out MPI, it provides another reason why it's time that we have a Progressive Conservative government in Manitoba. The NDP's attempt to reform the personal injury protection plan, which is administered by the Manitoba Public Insurance, is a farce.

In a recent court ruling regarding MPI's support for Steven Fletcher, a quadriplegic resulting from a collision with a moose, a chief justice of Manitoba, Richard Scott, ruled that MPI's coverage was wholly inadequate to provide the essential level of personal assistance for a victim of an injury such as Mr. Fletcher's, who decided to make something of his life despite his catastr ophic physical injuries, and that the PIPP legislation should be changed. The changes proposed by the NDP do not meet this demand and would actually reduce coverage for the catastrophically injured.

First of all, funding for home care as proposed in the revised act is totally inadequate. The NDP needs to do some simple calculations for home care. We tried to help the minister in the amendments, and it didn't seem to register. The NDP is proposing about 5,000 per month for personal assistance–home care– and when this is divided by the number of hours in an average month, about 730, the result is less than $5 an hour. This is from a government that says we need to have a minimum wage in this province, but not for the catastrophically injured's help. This is less than minimum wage.

This new proposal by the NDP is obviously still wholly inadequate for catastrophically injured victims who need 24-hour care. Secondly, the NDP is proposing to institute a total lifetime maximum of a million dollars for medical expenses. The limit would be reached while a person was in their 20s if they were injured in their teens. The math is irrefutable. The main objective of no-fault PIPP legislation was to ensure that the seriously injured would be provided with necessary care.

To this end, no limit was put on medical care for the seriously injured, and this is one of the fundamental reasons why no-fault insurance was accepted by the Manitoba public. Now the NDP wants to put a limit on medical expenses. In addition, the proposed revisions to the act state that other agenci es, including federal government, must support MPI. Why should the taxpayers from other parts of Canada subsidize MPI? MPI should stand on its own. It should not be subsidized by other government agencies. In fact, there are no other agencies in place for catastrophically injured victims to turn to.

MPI is simply trying to create an escape clause for themselves. In a recent article–in a recent

article in the Winnipeg Free Press , the MPI CEO, Marilyn McLaren states that catastrophically injured now have a piece of mind knowing that they're entitled to virtually unlimited financial support. The statement is false; it makes one wonder why is MPI trying to mislead the public. The current feeble attempt by the NDP to change PIPP legislation have been counterproductive. The NDP must do the math and recognize that MPI is not providing adequate coverage for the victims who need the 24-hour care. So, Madam Deputy Speaker, with those few words, I hope that the minister gives this some serious consideration.

He said that he would do that in committee. He has neglected to do that. I would hope that he takes the message today, that he has heard today and that he takes that forward, and he takes it forward and gives it to Ms. McLaren, the CEO and president of MPI, and ensures that MPI does look after our catastrophically injured and, doing that, also looks after–and I will give him a suggestion that there needs to be changes made to the procedures that MPI bodily injury department. But since they have only barely defined catastrophic

definitions, I will help him. The description for this should be that the symptoms and deficits are so severe and disabling as to seriously and continuously impair their functioning and quality of life–and attach a procedure to this definition, asking the treating physicians to certify with criteria that two years have passed since the accident and that they are not expected to improve.

That it needs to be that simple, an automatic decision without MPI referring this back to the independents, the independents that they say they have, which are hired and paid for by MPI, the very same independents that challenge each and ev ery individual at every step that they do as they go forward with their claims. The most vulnerable in our society are being put down by this very minister and by this very government, the NDP government. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Carman): Madam Deputy Speaker, as we are in third reading of Bill 36, my colleague from Emerson brought forward a great

October 7, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3713 number of amendments, all to be denied by this government, and their fall-back position on Bill 36 always has been and alwa ys continues to be, the Tories are going to privatize MPI. [interjection] It is not–that is the NDP fall-back position, and that–and all that is–all that is is means that they put their government ahead of the catastrophically injured in Manitoba.

This government has no idea how Manitobans feel about MPI. * (15:00) So, Madam Deputy Speaker, I just received an e-mail this afternoon–kind of coincidental, actually, that we're debating Bill 36–and this comes from a constituent in Somerset, and I'll just enter into Hansard what this constituent wrote to me. And, he says: How many complaints come to your office about Manitoba Public Insurance? I can tell him there's many. I have–he writes to me, I have come to the conclusion and, not only I, but many I have talked to, that MPI does not give one hoot about the public in general.

The office is a mess as far as dates are concerned and, what is worse, the company compels you to take a lawyer, which quite often makes the cost run so high that in the long run it's a losing proposition for them. MPI is wonderful when you never have an accident, but, oh, when you have one, which might not even be your fault, they are certainly no servants to the insured. No fault to insurance–no-fault insurance to MPI means everyone is at fault, there are no innocent parties. You drive an automobile insured by MPI, you are, no matter what at–you are, no matter what, at fault.

Who is responsible and whom can you take these concerns? Something needs to be done. The public, by just listening to them, that there are those who have dealt with MPI are fed up. And this comes from a constituent in Somerset. And it's not just us as partisan people that take MPI to task, this government to task. This is constituents that we hear from every day about MPI. If there–they are more–thi s government is more concerned about the bottom line of MPI than it is concerned about dealing w ith the catastrophically injured.

The member from Emerson introduced an amendment which would increase, or which would take the cap off of the monthly allowance for catastrophically injured. The argument came back, we can't do this because this would cost too much money. So now what you're talking about–it's about cost. It's not about dealing–helping these most vulnerable citizens of Manitoba. We know that this government is more concerned about the bottom line. We know that they want to bottom line out of MPI so they can raid it for their own government coffers.

That's the bottom line of their running MPI and as well as many other Crown corporations. Madam Deputy Speaker, this is–this bill is–this bill would have never come forward had it not been for the high profile case of the MP Steven Fletcher. The Premier (Mr. Doer) was backed into a corner on this to bring it forward because of–because of Steven Fletcher's injuries and his high profile and the poor treatment that he had received out of MPI. So what they did is they made some grandiose announcements, more press releases, millions of dollars spent.

But what the bottom line is, when you come down to the individual person who is catastrophically injured, this government is not willing to deal with them. They are treating them worse than poorly, and this bill does nothing, does– pardon me. This bill does very, very little to help those who are catastrophically injured. It does not bring them up to helping them lead a more–as full life as they are capable of doing. It instead puts penalties on, puts limits on and, for that reason, this bill should never pass. But it's going to pass because of the arrogance of this NDP government.

There is no concern at all for the–for the very people–the very people–who paid the insurance premiums to make MPI possible to even exist. There is no consideration of them at all. This bill is bad legislation. It should never pass. I urge this government to pull this. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Deputy Speaker, I just want to put a few words on the record prior to this bill passing, and just to recognize as the official opposition members have pointed out a number of–a number of concerns, some of which we would share.

Having said that, I wanted just to quickly make reference that there are some areas of the bill in which I think would receive widespread support. In particular, where individuals have succumbed to the injuries of a vehicle accident and, at some point in time after the accident, they require, through death, the need for burial and death benefits, and we see that the bill does deal with that issue in good part.

3714 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 7, 2009 There are other issues in which I wouldn't mind just to make reference to, the issue of appeals. MPI through the years I believe needs to move in a direction that is more, say, consumer friendly, for the lack of better words, where individuals can feel adequate and capable of being able to represent themselves in going through an appeal system in which they are not going to be wondering, well, what if I would've hired a lawyer to represent me in going through an appeal.

I think that we want to keep it simple enough to the degree in which people are able to get decisions made and feel comfortable in knowing that they've been treated fairly. I do believe that there are a number of people within the MPI system that have, unfortunately, had to wait for, you know, unbelievable times in terms of being able to see a final decision being made, and, on occasion, we do see decisions that are made that are favourable to a particular claim and, quite often, where they're not.

But whet her it's a favourable or unfavourable decision, we need to do and have in place an appeal mechanism that ensures that there is justice as quick as possible and that decisions are in fact being made, and to that extent the consumer of this service would be better served. With those few words, Madam Acting Speaker, we recognize that the bill in fact would be passing. Thank you. The Acting Speaker (Ms. Howard): Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Some Honourable Members: No. The Acting Speaker (Ms. Howard): Oh. Mr.

Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): I appreciate the fact that the member from Inkster was speaking to this particular issue as well. It was a concern to me this whole issue of compensation for catastrophic injuries. I know that we're pleased to see that Bill 36 has come forward, The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporations Amendment Act (Enhanced Compensation for Catastrophic Injuries). But, as mentioned by my colleague from Emerson (Mr.

Graydon), and, I believe, others, the member from Inkster just spoke on this as well, and some of my colleagues who have spoken and who will speak in future on this or have at second reading in report stage. This bill only goes part way in regards to the types of requirements that are needed. It certainly is a step in the right direction, and I commend the government where credit is due.

But, Madam Deputy Speaker, in regards to why this bill is before us in the first place, I just want to make it very clear that I had the opportunity to speak to Bill 229, a private member's bill that was brought forward by the member from Emerson earlier in this session to deal with similar catastrophic injuries and compensation and home-care needs and how to deal with these circumstances, and I've spoken to this before in the House, and I commend the member from Emerson for bringing forth the bill that he did. * (15:10) Now, I know that the government didn't vote in favour of that bill, but I think it helped spur on the fact that they were able to bring in Bill 36.

Like, I know it did, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I commend the government for doing that. But I believe that, as the member from Emerson indicated, that during committee, the member from Kildonan, who's brought this bill, you know, seen it come forward, that, you know, he led the committee people to believe that this–that their suggestions would be dealt with once the bill came back in the House, that there would be amendments brought forward by the government to deal with those issues. And there wasn't, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I think that that's a concern to those citizens.

Certainly, it shows that the government wasn't listening to their needs in that area. And so the member from Emerson, I think, with a great deal of research and a great deal of time and effort on this, brought forth some 11 amendments towards improving the bill. And as he indicated in his words in the House today, it was brought purely with the intent of making sure that the bill was improved, to cover some of the circumstances that we felt strongly, on this side of the House, needed to be dealt with.

I know the government has indicated–I think it's–I think it's something like $14-million worth of enhanced benefits, that $35 million would be set aside to improve ongoing benefit payments over the course of their lifetimes for these individuals, Madam Deputy Speaker. But I have indicated in my previous comments that–two areas that were of a concern were the fact that the $800 increase per month from $4,000, capped at this time, goes up to $4,800. It hasn't been changed for a number of years.

That wouldn't keep up with inflation, I don't believe, in the numbers that we looked at, and I think that there needs to be a removal of this cap entirely.

October 7, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3715 And I say that because, you know, knowing full well that there's a fiscal responsibility in regions of insurance and in care, but when it comes to the definition of catastrophically injured persons, as defined by other provinces–I know the Province here picked up on what's being done in Saskatchewan–to include others in quadriplegia and paraplegia, two amputations or more, loss of functional vision, 80 percent damage in those areas, full thickness of burns in some areas, psychiatric injuries and brain injuries, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I commend them for changing the definition and improving it as well.

But for the–but where this falls down in the government's–in my mind at least–in the government's responsibility is in the fact that in their own documents, Manitoba Public Insurance indicates that there are only 16 quadriplegia persons in the province, and quite a number of more paraplegia and others that would be covered under some of these

definitions. But in–when we have a situation where there are only 16 quadriplegics since 2004–and believe me, three a year is too many, Madam Deputy Speaker, we'd like to see that reduced to zero–but to help those people and others get on with a normal and functional life is why this bill has come forward, I'm sure, from the government, and it's why our member brought forth Bill 229. It's also why he brought forth 11 amendments that could have been very much used to improve the bill and help clarify the needs of these persons.

Madam Deputy Speaker, I just wanted to put on the record as well that while we're going through the House in report stage on these amendments coming forward, that quite often, you know, one amendment comes forward and it gets voted on and the government voted it down, and maybe the public's listening for that particular amendment, but not for the next one or the next one and the next one. And so I just want to put on the record that all 11 amendments were voted down by the government, from the opposition's amendments, in an effort to try to support the government, actually, on a bill like this.

And I think that that's too bad, that their political view got in the way of good legislation on this particular view–on this particular bill. There was a $1-million cap on one of those amendments as well in those areas, the $4,800 one that I mentioned as well earlier. There was sections that needed to be changed in–around 137.1 in regards to the days of reporting, the 14 days after receiving the victim's request that the corporation should notify the victim in writing, and that's pretty important at that particular time in a major accident like this, Madam Deputy Speaker, regardless of the type and the cause.

It not only helps even if the person isn't able to understand, their families, their relatives, their friends, certainly, are going through a trauma as well. And they need to be aware and know that there is going to be support there for the individual and for their families, and it certainly does alleviate a good deal of stress from those individuals at that critical time. And I think that, you know, to say that, well, we'll have a million dollar cap on areas is a bit disconcerting as well because it doesn't take anything into consideration for the age of the individual, Madam Deputy Speaker.

If I'm 70 and I'm involved in an accident like that or even, you know, younger or older, that particular cap, to a person that's basically a senior, is one thing, but if this happens to you when you're 18 or 19 or 20, and you've still got a million dollar cap on that area, it only goes so far, depending on the quality and the depth of the kinds of care that you're going to need. And, believe me, if you need 24-hour, seven-day-a-week care, as say, Christopher Reeve did, with his level 2 accident, or as has been mentioned in the House many times, our Manitoba Member of Parliament from St.

James-Assiniboia, Charleswood and Headingley, Mr. Steven Fletcher. That type of–well, it seems like a lot of dollars. If you try to spread that over a lifetime, it doesn't give that person the care to do what is required by the goals of the bill to provide that individual with an opportunity to get themselves re-transitioned into lives that are productive, both socially and economically, for their own future. And those opportunities are available today, much more so than they've ever been in the past, Madam Deputy Speaker.

And I know that personally because of the computer age that's available, the types of voice-activated equipment that is available today, the on-line courses and opportunities that individuals can take. There isn't the mobility requirement when they have to get in the winter and move in cold weather. There's a lot of these courses available in their homes or in their–opportunities, and that's only one example.

I know that the member also brought amendments forward to strike out clauses 17, 18 and 19 in this act, in this bill, Madam Deputy Speaker, and the reason was clearly that they limited the amount of appeals that the individuals could do to MPI's decision about not supplying them with further

3716 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 7, 2009 support. And these could be for many reasons. You know, a person at MPI has a big caseload, there's a lot of accidents, not just catastrophic ones but others that they need to go through on a regular basis. And, you know, a person can make a mistake or an error in the types of

interpretation that they've had on a case that's coming before them. And so you need to make sure that these kinds of cases are looked at and that we are compassionate to those kinds of issues. And I think that, you know, we've also heard the issue that sometimes the appeal isn't allowed because of a cost-cutting measure. And I've made my case, I think, in that regard for these particular catastrophically injured persons, that we need to take a look at how much more it would be required over that lifetime of the individual to provide them with the care that would be necessary for them.

And I think it also provides an appeal just for the regular basis of the accountability of Manitoba Public Insurance itself in restricting claimants' ability to appeal MPI's decisions, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I urge the government to give serious consideration to future amendments in looking at this bill in the future to provide those opportunities.

I know that there were other amendments that this government chose not to pass, all 11 of them, very substantive, in an effort to try to help catastrophically injured persons in Manitoba, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I think that, you know, we all know that insurance is th ere to try and help in terrible scenarios and accidents that are extremely catastrophic.

And there's no question that the member's amendments were brought forward to help but to try and enhance this bill, and that the bill, while it's a step in the right direction, needed a great deal more support from the government in regards to trying to bring these individuals back to a fully productive life, as fully productive as you can under the circumstances of their accidents. * (15:20) And I must just say, as well, that any one of us–I think I made this comment in my comments earlier in the House–that any one of us could be struck by this type of an accident at any time, Madam Deputy Speaker, and I think it's really a–it's what I know made my colleagues look at this in such a responsible manner.

And there are many other places, I think, that these claimants could gain the support from as opposed to what is being–the government has directed the public insurance corporation. And I–and I know that, perhaps, the people that work very, very hard in Manitoba Public Insurance would, in fact, enhance and maybe look at doing some of these things if they were allowed to do it internally. But I think that the government has directed them not to make further changes in this type of a–of

definitions and further changes in the kinds of support that they're getting. But I think we need to put on the record that the government needs to look at where it's spending money, whether it's in overhead administration costs at MPI which, I know, as a corporation, they're probably trying to do the best they can. But then the government offloads things like drivers' licensing on them and, you know, there's about 5 million a year that they have to absorb from the government's decision to pick up that cost, Madam Deputy Speaker.

There's 13 million and counting in the enhanced ID cards that they're continuing to use. These are–these are not small amounts of money in anybody's mind in Manitoba in regards to the size of support that would be needed for these individuals. In fact, it could well fund all of the changes that the government is looking at bringing forward over a certain period of time. And so I think that while there are a good many areas that can be used to pick up support for these types of individuals, I just want to reiterate, as well, the comments that my–that I know the member from Emerson was talking about.

And that was in regards to the, of course, quadriplegic case of Mr. Steven Fletcher and, of course, the Manitoba court ruling from Justice Richard Scott at that time, where he also said that it was wholly inadequate. And that was in reference to Manitoba Public Insurance compensation scheme for people of Mr. Steven Fletcher's determinant injuries, Madam Deputy Speaker, I guess, is the words that I'm looking for.

It was a tremendous accident that a young individual, an up-and-coming engineer in the province of Manitoba and a very great athlete in his own right at that time was–had his life changed in a split second when he hit a moose on a highway in the dark in the middle of January. And it's a–it goes back to what I've said earlier in this House about how quickly things can change in regards to where we need to be in regards to support for any one of us that might be faced with this in the future in the province of Manitoba.

So, with those words, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would look forward to other comments on this particular bill. Thank you.

October 7, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3717 Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Madam Acting Speaker, just a few comments I want to put on the record regarding this bill before it moves to conclusion in the Legislature here. First of all, to repeat what I have said in the past, I want to commend the member for Emerson (Mr.

Graydon) for the hard work and the heart that he's put into this bill, because he really has not only put the sweat equity into ensuring that the work was done in terms of amendments and speaking to individuals, but he really poured his heart into it, and–[interjection] Well, you know, I hear the Minister of Energy (Mr. Rondeau) making some derogatory comments.

I know, I think if he were to review his own heart, he would find that the member for Emerson put all of these amendments forward with the right intention and with the right motive in terms of helping individuals who, in many ways, aren't able to help themselves in the context of the Legislature and many other things that we take for granted in our daily lives. A great deal of time has already been expended in referencing the case of Steven Fletcher. And I just want to, again, say to th e Minister responsible for Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation (Mr. Chomiak), that the specific case of Mr.

Fletcher is important and the work that he has done in raising awareness about the deficiencies regarding coverage under MPIC is also important. And I know, as a personal friend of Mr. Fletcher, that he never ever would have wanted this battle foisted upon him, but it's something that he's taken up because of the circumstances of his life that he's found himself in and he's done so not simply on his own behalf. Certainly, he was fighting for benefits to allow him to lead his life to the fullest of his abilities, and his abilities are many, Madam Acting Speaker.

But he also took on the cause for many others who either weren't able to articulate for themselves, or who didn't have the podium that he has in the various positions that he's held in his remarkable life. And that certainly is drawn out very clearly in his book that he's written and that has received, I think, critical acclaim across Canada. He has met with many individuals across the countr y and so he has specific expertise about how jurisdictions compare in terms of coverage for injuries that are considered catastrophic in our country.

And so there's a very good reason why we would cite his particular case and his particular experience; is because that is somebody who has, not only real life experience, but also has taken it upon himself to be a champion for the cause. And, again, not something that he would have asked for in his life but something that I think he felt was put upon him and he has picked up that responsibility to ensure it happens.

And, you know, Madam Acting Speaker, we could cite many different pieces of legislation that have come before this Chamber and that have been debated and passed in this Chamber, that came as a result of a particular individual who either lobbied government or who had some sort of experience. There's been labour legislation that's been brought forward and supported by all members of this House because of individual experiences that people have had, sometimes tragically. And the law was changed; the law was rectified as a result of that individual experience.

So I'm not entirely sure why the Minister of Justice (Mr. Chomiak) would say that we shouldn't talk about individual experiences because time and time again so many of our laws are based, and are driven, and are brought forward as a result of individual experiences and there's nothing wrong with that. I would hope it's not a partisan issue on behalf of the Minister of Justice. I would–I'll take him at his word that it isn't and that for whatever reason, he has a particular desire not to see Mr. Fletcher's case brought forward publicly.

But in that way, I mean, he's already–you know, he's speaking–he can't close the door on that from happening because Mr. Fletcher's case is well in the public and he's well known and he's a published author about it and it's been discussed at great length, his particular case. And so it's not as though we're revealing something here in the Legislature that isn't already well known across Canada and the halls of Parliament in Ottawa. So I do also then want to just put on the record that I thank Mr.

Fletcher for being somebody who was willing to take up this cause and to be vocal and to not give up, to not give up when so many expected him to give up. And I know not only in reading his personal life story, but in hearing it from Steven himself, that is what the system believed would happen with Steven Fletcher; that he would simply give up and that he would not try to complete his M.B.A., his Master's of Business Administration. They never contemplated that he would run for political office. I mean, it was so far off the mark. It

3718 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 7, 2009 had never happened before, and time and time again they believed, and I mean the system believed, that he would give up in his quest to either become elected or to reach higher education or to achieve other things or that he would fail.

And I'm proud of the fact that we have, not just somebody who I call a friend, but a Manitoban who didn't give up and who didn't fail and who proved all the naysayers, and there were many, wrong. * (15:30) And I suspect, Madam Acting Speaker, that's why this bill doesn't go as far as we'd like it to go, why it doesn't reach as far as it should reach, I do think that Mr. Fletcher will be successful again in his quest some day, and that this Legislature at some point in the future will recognize the shortcomings of the legislation that he has pointed out.

He's not a quitter; if there's one thing I've learned about Steven Fletcher is that he's not a quitter, and I don't think he'd–he'll quit and I don't he should quit. And I thank the Minister of Energy for agreeing with that, and I suspect that we're gonna hear from Mr. Fletcher again, and this Legislature whatever its composition may be, in terms of members or in terms of government, will hear from Mr.

Fletcher again, and I predict he will be successful in the future, and we'll look back at this day as a day when we didn't go as far as we should have, but I think that that error will be corrected by a future Legislature at another time. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I believe, from our perspective, we're willing to move this forward on a procedural basis. The Acting Speaker (Ms. Howard): Is the House ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. The Acting Speaker (Ms.

Howard): The question before the House is concurrence and third reading of Bill No. 36, The Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation Amendment Act (Enhanced Compensation for Catast rophic Injuries); Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la Société d'assurance publique du Manitoba (majoration de l'indemnisation en cas de lésions catastrophiques). Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion. [Agreed] I declare the motion carried. Bill 31–The Manitoba Floodway Authority Amendment Act Hon. Dave Chomiak (Government House Leader): Madam Deputy Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Child and Family Services, that Bill No. 31, The Manitoba Floodway Authority Act, Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la Commission du canal de dérivation du Manitoba, reported from the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs, be concurred in and be now read for a third time and passed. The Acting Speaker (Ms. Howard): It has been moved and seconded that Bill No. 31, The Manitoba Floodway Authority Amendment Act, seconded by the Minister for Family Se rvices (Mr. Mackintosh), be–reported from the Standing Committee, be concurred in and be now read for a third time and passed. Mr. Larry Maguire (Arthur-Virden): Thank you, Madam Deputy Acting Speaker.

I am assuming that the minister–and I appreciate the fact that he's allowed me to proceed first in speaking to this bill. We had a couple of presentations from Grand Chief Ron Evans and from deputy–from, pardon me, Chief Donovan from the east side of Lake Winnipeg on this particular bill, and I know that their concerns were raised with regards to the Manitoba Floodway Authority and the kind of training that it has offered to First Nations people in regards to the Floodway Authority. And we don't have a problem with the training issues, Madam Deputy Speaker.

This is a priority and the training should be a priority. It will remain a priority on all projects, but not just the Floodway Authority or the east-side road; it's in regards to projects in the north and all over Manitoba, and these are skills that can be learned for a lifetime. But, Madam Deputy Speaker, I do want to say that, from our perspective on this side of the House, we are in favour of the east-side road being built. That is a priority of our Progressive Conservative side of the House as well.

I've stated that in my comments in regards to second reading and at committee, and I want to make sure that that's clear tonight, as well, today, this afternoon in the debate in the House. And I think that it's very, very incumbent upon us, though, to be clear on the record as to what the government's intent with this bill is. And it's not so much an opportunity to perhaps have a road built up the east side as it is to provide a carrying on of an existing authority, for what reason we don't know. The Floodway Authority was put in place to build a

October 7, 2009 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3719 ditch, to expand a ditch that already existed, called the floodway, in Manitoba, started by Duff Roblin many years ago, but in the '60s has saved, I wouldn't say hundreds of millions at one time but certainly now billions of dollars worth of costs that would have had to have been rebuilt time and time again from several floods that we've had since it was built. It was a great concept. Th e Floodway Authority was put in place to do that. The government passed a bill to allow the Floodway Authority to be put in place and Mr.

Gilroy was put in charge of the Floodway Authority, and they have expertise in the Floodway Authority to be able to handle certain circumstances, Madam Deputy Speaker, that they've used, but our side had concerns about why that kind of a body was put in place, or needed to do that particular job. And subsequent to that, which had nothing to do with The Floodway Authority Act, then there was a forced unionization for the labour to build the floodway, and so that you need not apply unless you're unionized, in regards to the work that was done on the Floodway Authority.

So, when I had the briefing from the minister, that is a concern that I have raised then and raise now in regards to those issues and, of course, the answer is, well, no, it's not part of the bill. Well, it wasn't part of the Floodway Authority either. Now they're saying it's not part of the Floodway Authority's responsibility in regards to building the east-side road. Madam Deputy Speaker.

I can only speak against this bill from the perspective that we don't know what the government's intent is, and I think we need to make very, very clear that you don't have to have the Manitoba Floodway Authority in charge of a project like this, to build a road up the east side of Lake Winnipeg.

And, if you do want the expertise that those people have, Madam Deputy Speaker, the minister has all the power that he–that he can muster in his department and through his office to hire those people who are presently with the Floodway Authority, continue on with the jobs, if that's what he feels is necessary, and bri ng the responsibility of building roads back into his department. And, Deputy Speaker, this is not out of ordinary either. The precedent here would be set that this would be the first road in Manitoba not built by the department of transport or in charge of it.

We've got a situation where all highways and roads in Manitoba today of a provincial nature have had the Province involved in the management and through their engineers, either done it internally or had it hired externally on a contract ba sis, to build every road and highway that's got a provincial designation in this province, and some of the ones that they've had partnership with the federal government on as well. So why does the minister not have confidence that his own department to be able to do that on the road up the east side of Lake Winnipeg? We don't know.

I do know, and I can put on the record, that SCN-Lavalin has been hired by the Floodway Authority Inc. to a corporation that's been set up to begin the process of looking at acquiring documents for, and getting documents for the environmental licensing process that will be necessary when–before a road can be built. We do know that this Inc. corporation has hired SCN-Lavalin Engineers and Constructors Incorporated to provide possible routes to the Floodway Authority when it will be established, when the bill is passed by the government.

We do know that the word "authority" is the only word that's really changing in this act, Madam Deputy Speaker. It's just being expanded to include–beyond the Manitoba floodway to include the East Side Road Authority, and that the government seems that they don't want to have the responsibility in the department for building this road. And from our side of the House, it just doesn't seem fathomable that the government has to offload its responsibilities on another organization to do–to take on the responsibility. You know, we've got concerns there, Madam Deputy Speaker.

I've raised some of them in question period here; you know, whether or not it's going to end up being the role of the present people that are in the Floodway Authority or not, and, of course, I'm assuming that the 38 or 40 people that are presently working there, 38 staff, according to the FIPPA information that I have, freedom of information and public protection act, is the fact that there are 38 persons working there now with a total salary and benefits package of just under $2.6 million.

It's not the issue of what their salaries are, but when the work of the Manitoba Floodway Authority was completed, that was to be the end of the Manitoba Floodway Authority's role, initially. * (15:40) So if, now, it's going to be expanded to do the east-side road, what's next? Will it be in charge of building CentrePort Way at several hundred million

3720 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 7, 2009 dollars to the CentrePort area from Inkster, joining the Perimeter Highway? Has the minister got plans for putting them in charge of doing things like that? I don't say that the minister as well, because I think this is more of a government initiative, perhaps coming from his leader, that this is the edict that's come down, that this is what has to happen. But the minister's certainly carrying the ball for and doing a good job of trying to make sure that it's put in place, Madam Deputy Speaker. But I just want to utter a word of caution as well.

I received yesterday a document entitled, The Changing Face of Infrastructure , and it's a study done through the private sector infrastructure providers and views from all over the world by KPMG International, a very renowned organization, Madam Deputy Speaker, that indicates through the economist intelligence unit that the biggest concern of a lot of contractors in–throughout the world–127 of these were from North America–69 percent expressed concern about the impact of government effectiveness, and they cited government effectiveness as the biggest obstacle to meeting infrastructure needs.

Well, I think that if that's the case, the government should actually be more hands- on in regards to the type of contracting and the accountability of the dollars that are being spent, because these are taxpayers' dollars in regards to the projects that we're seeing built. If the minister wants to hire the persons from the Floodway Authority and hire them within his department, we don't have a problem with that, as long as there's a responsible role in not duplicating work that could be presently done by people in his own department.

But, historically, large projects like this are contracted out, and tenders are provided for individual companies to pick up parts or sections of the work. And so we have no problem with SCN- Lavalin being hired to do some of that work at the present time, but why then is it being turned over to the Floodway Authority as opposed to the department? And, of course, I'm sure that the minister will have access and first-hand knowledge of what those reports say. He'd be negligent in his responsibilities if he wasn't demanding that, and I understand that those reports should be availabl e within weeks.

But I–and these reports will outline some of the areas of where the road should go. We've already got, Madam Deputy Speaker, opportunities for winter roads. Many miles of winter roads have been carved out of the boreal forest and–alread y, of course. This is the same boreal forest that they don't want to bring a hydro line down through, and they want to go 400 extra kilometres around the west side of the province at a cost of 600 extra million dollars, enough money to at least build this road, maybe even twin it up the east side of Lake Winnipeg.

And I think those are why we have concerns, or why I, as the critic in this particular area, have concerns as to why this road would go up the east side under a Floodway Authority management program. And I know from my days as competitive, training and trade critic, as well, that all of the training that can be done and will be done and should be done in regards to the utilization of Manitobans that we have, whether they're First Nations or otherwise, needs to be done, Madam Deputy Speaker, and can be done by programs that the Minister for Competitiveness, Training and Trade (Mr. Swan) has already got on the go.

These are processes that are existing, that would be very valuable tools for life skills for persons on the east side of La

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	39-3-76
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	39th 3rd hansardpdf 76.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	5e2e7c613b89827bc7a6883a161bb21f1b355216

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