VOL. 3 "- PRELD1INARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. WEDNESDAY, MARCH 18, 1981 NO. 12 .. ··.

!1arch 18, 1981 The House met at 3:00P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape No. 432 EL - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please~ MR. SPEAKER: AR. HOUSE: STATEMENTS BY HINISTERS The hon. the Hinister of Health. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to advise the hon. members of the House of this government's policy with respect to funding of medical services. I do so at this time in light of recent statements and media reports emanating from the office of the hon. Monique Begin, Hinister of Health and Welfare Canada.

From the report~ that I have re­ ceived to date, the minister has indicated her intention to recommend to the Federal Government that federal legislation be put in place banning extra billing by physicians. I make it clear to th.e members of the House and to the public that the statements are made in isolation and without the support or agreement of our counterparts in the provincial departments of health throughout the countr y.

In ~int of fact, the provincial ministers at their recent meeting o£ December, 1980 reconfirmed that the historic provincial responsibility for the administration of health care must be maintained; that is,it is a provincial responsibility. Now, in Newfoundland, Hr. Speaker, extra billing by physicians is minimal. As a matter of fact, it is not allowed. It is not legal in Newfoundland unless the doctor opts out of medicare. In our Province,only two physicians have elected to do so. As a matter of fact, I do not think either one has elected to opt out.

I believe that neither one of these opted in to begin with,so there is no opting out really ··. ..

1·1a rch 18, 1981 Tape NO . 432 EL - 2 MR. HOUSE: in the Province. aence, while - and I want this noted, Mr. Speaker,- while r.tadame Beqin' s sta ternents are not aimed at Newfoundland and while we do not disagree with her expressions of concern about extr~ billing because we have gone along with that kind of thing ourselve .s, we want to make it clear that the decieions · regarding extra billing and decisions regarding var­ ious options 'with respect to financing hea).th care services must remain with the Province and be a Provincial responsibility.

In my view, the statements made extend from a basic assumption that the medicare system in Can­ ada is in danger ·of being eroded. Again I refer to the recent meeting of the inter-provincial ministers. At that meeting, the financing of health care was discussed and with one ezceptioii, Saskatchewan, everybody agreed that there is no erosion in medicare at this time. These programmes will remain secure as long as existing Federal-Provincial arrangements are maintained. Mr.

Speaker, the real concern of the Provincial Ministers of Health throughout the country relate to the recent suggestion of changes in the Federai-Provincial financing arrangements which could lead to 1 2 4 1 .. ,

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 433 DW - l MR. W. HOUSE: substantial withdrawal of federal funding for health care programmes. Indeed, the continuing well-being of the ?rogramme will require undiminished sup­ port from the federal government. Now this is the real issue involving medicare To reiterate then, ·~r. Speaker, the recent statements made by the federal minister imply that the federal qovernment may be considering dictating to provinces ~ow they finance their medicare programmes and other health care programmes.

Such central control will not allow the variety of auctions that may be open to provinces for financing medicare service~ in soite of the fact that the administration of this in our view is clearly within the provinc~' mandate and jurisdiction. We strongly dis~aree with the sug­ gestion of the federal minister and feel that unilateral action to ban extra billings will impede the ability of the provinces of Canada to adequately provide aualit y health care services. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. member for Lewisporte. ~R. F. WHITE: Mr.

Soeaker, I find it very, very difficult to understand how a government that already agrees with Ottawa,and has in principle put safeguards in place with Ottawa to do exactly what Ottawa requires,now comes out and goes against Ottawa simply for the sake of going against Ottawa and once again ganging up with the other ministers across Canada in pressuring Ottawa. Extra billings simply means that doctors can have their cake and eat it too, Mr. Speaker. They get money from the public purse as well as get it from the private individual.

And I am glad to learn from the minister that it is not happening in this Province and should not happen in this Province. AR. HOUSE: Very lit<:le. . MR. F. WHITE: Ver y little in this Province . "12 4 2 ''I ··, •·,

~arch 18, 1981 Taoe No. 433 m~ - 2 MR . F. lAffiT TE: The fact of the matter is, Mr . Speaker, that this government through medicare has been very fair to doctors in Newfoundland . If you look back at the increases they have been granted over the last three or four years,if the same increases were granted to civil servants in this Province we would not have the labour unres t that we have today in Newfoundland. SO~E HON . MEHBERS: Hear , hear! .MR. F.

WHITE : And I can as~u:r:e the mihiste r, Mr • Speaker, that as long as Ottawa is going to pump millions of dollars into health care programme s and other prog rammes in this Provin ce or any other Province,that they are going to have a say in how part of it is spent . And I would like to see them have a bigger say in how la rge parts of it are spent. MR . SPEAKER (Simms): Any furthe r statements? MR. N . WINDSOR : related to tourism. The hon. Minister of Development . Mr.

Speaker, a brief statement One of the biggest assets of a viable touri sm industry is sufficient quality hotel and motel rooms to accomodate our Province's visitors . It is my pleasure at this time to express satis faction with the efforts of the tourist accomodations industry to continually 'I 2 4 3 "'1 .. "'! "'j

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 434 NM - 1 MR. WINDSOR: improve and expand their facilities throughout Newfoundland and Labrador. During the past year, for all areas except St. John's,315 new rooms were added at a total cost of just over $6.2 million. The major areas of investment were Central Newfoundland - $2.0 million; Western Newfoundland, including the Great Northern Peninsula and Labrador Straits - $1.9 million; and the Bonavista and Burin Peninsulas - $1.3 million.

Government is very encouraged by the results of the industry's efforts and is confident that by adding the equivalent of a major new hotel 1 the tourism industry in our Province will be in a far greater position to accommodate the increasing attention being paid to Newfoundland and Labrador as a unique vacation experience. The accornrnodatioPs industry is to be congratulated also for the obvious confidence they have in the future economic prosperity of the Province and its travel in­ dustry. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. WARREN: The hon. member for Torngat Mountains. Yes, Mr.

Speaker, I would say probably this statement could have been released a couple of days ago or tomorrow by the President of the Board of Trade. It shows that actually the private enterprise in this Province is spending money, and spending money into the tourist industry, instead of this government. Mr. Speaker, I believe this government, if they wanted to spend money in the tourist industry,they should start putting out suitable brochures on the CN boats, at the air­ ports and so on, which this provincial government is not doing. In fact, ~tt.

Speaker, it was only just recently that a person was corning across the Straits from North Sydney to Port aux Basques and wanted to go to Labrador and asked, "Have you any tourist literature about Labrador," and the lady there said, '12 4 4 .. •. i

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 434 NM - 2 MR. WARREN: "Labrador? Where is that?" And here this government is trying to increase tourism coming into the Province and does not even send out their brochures and advertise that there is potential for the tourist in- dustry in the Province. MR. BENNETT: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): They do not know themselves. Further statements?

Before proceeding to Oral Questions, I would like to welcome to the galleries today on behalf of hon. members a delegation from the Town Council of Twillingate, in the district of Twillingate, led by Mayor Herb Gillett, who is also a former member of this House of Assembly and a delegation of one, two, three, four, five, six councillors I believe it is. We would like to welcome you today. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! ORAL QUESTIONS: MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader <Yf the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I understand that the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr.

Dinn) was very disappointed yesterday that he never got any questions. I would like to ask him a question or two for his benefit today. I would like to ask the Minister of Labour and Manpower, in view of his expressed lack of confidence in the government, so much so to the extent of signing not one but three petitions, did the minister tender his resignation to the Premier? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, I am delighted the hon. Leader of the Opposition,number one, read The Daily News today and found outwho he should ask a question to. SOl1E HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. THOMS: Show some decency,boy,and resign~ Resign! 'I 2 4 5 ''I .. ' 'I

March 18,1981 SOME HON.MEMBERS: SOME HON.MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Tape No. 435 Hear, hear! Oh, oh! Order, please! AH-1 MR. DINN: Or somebody got in touch with the Leader of the Opposition and notified him that it was in the Daily News. But to answer the hon. Leader of the Opposition's question, the answer to his specific question is, No, I did not resign and have . no intentions of. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. STIRLING: A supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary question. The bon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Thank you very much for that latest piece of information.

Would the minister like to inform the House,because he informs the House of things different from what he says in the press and maybe he does not realize it is the same press 1so maybe the minister would like to tell us what he meant wn~p he said on television that he would very seriously consider resigning if this government did not move from its entrenched position? MR.SPEAKER: Manpower. MR.DINN: The hon. Minister of Labour and Mr. Speake4that is fairly simple.

Basically what I said in the whole conversation,if the hon. the Leader had seen the tapes he would have gotten the total concept of what 1 was saying,and that is that if I found that I could not do my job as Minister of Labour,which I have up to this tirne,or I consider I have up to this time and until somebody indicates that I have not, but I consider I have up to this time 1when I find that I cannot do the job as Minister of Labour,I certainly cannot be Minister of Labour and in conscience I would not be. AN HON.MEMBER : That is right . MR. STIRLING: A supplementary. 1246 .. I

' March 18,1981 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): of the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Tape No. 435 AH-2 A supplementary . The hon. Leader The Premier also gave some different information on television last night than what he gave here in the House yesterday. When the Premier said on television in answer to a question that he had rapped the minister over the knuckles and this sort of thing would not happen again and that we should not really pay attention to what the minister said, it was what he meant; now would the minister tell us what he meant when he signed the petition?

Would he tell us exactly what he meant when he said that this government should never have allowed this strike to take place and that he believes that they should get back to the bargaining position? Could he tell us what he meant? MR.SPEAKER: Manpower. MR. DINN: The hon. Minister of Labour and I am particularly delighted for that question because the some twelve people who approached me with the petition passed me the petition and we talked about it. We had a conversation of,I believe,about an hour to three quarters of an hour on what was in the petition.

And I think the people that I signed the petition for are disappointed at this point in time as to what happened as a result of my signing that petition,because there was quite a discussion. There were four items in the petition.

The first item was that the strike should never have occured,and I think everybody wou~d agree that the strikes at the college of Trades and Workers' Compensation should never have occurred in that the process that the government has qone through in this procedure has been one of precedents that has been set over the years as to how negotiations are conducted in that a main body, the General Service,had a conciliation board, '12 4 7 •.. .. , 'I

March 18, 1981 Tape 436 EC - 1 MR. DINN: that it was the wish of both sides at the bargaining table in the College of Trades and Technology that nothing be done after, I believe, the 28th of March - I think that was the date, or the 28th of April, 1980 - that nothing further be discussed until the result of the conciliation board into the General Service dispute. So the conciliation board report~d in September. Now, the hon. the Opposition labour critic last week asked me a question at the end of Question Period and I di~ not get an opportunity to answer the question.

I got the impression that the answer was not required or indeed they did not want the answer, but now the hon. the Leader of the Opposition gives me an opportunity to give the answer. The result of the conciliation board on General Service: Now, one has to think about this because you have two sides of the negotiating table on the 28th of April and if the College of Trades and Technology wanted to,they could have notified me as minister that they were going on strike andgivenme seven days notice at that point in time.

But it was considered important that the lead group, the General Service conciliation board report so they would see what the conciliation board decided. The conciliation board decided that the wage package offered by government was appropriate. MR. STIRLING: We get the picture. Sit down. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. DINN: If han. members do not want the answers, Mr. Speaker, I will sit down. SOME HON. !-!EMBERS : Oh, oli! MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please! Order, please! I will remind the hon. the minister that answers as well as questions should be kept as brief as possible. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DINN: Well, Mr. Speaker, that is pertinent to what happened because when the conciliation board 1248 ., •·: .. , ·~;

March 18, 1981 MR. DINN: MR. F. ROWE: MR. DINN: MR. F. ROWE: Tape 436 EC - 2 reported and - Short answer, short question. - the union recommended rejection Gather your thoughts. MR. DINN: - General Service accepted, MOS accepted and the College of Trades decided not to accept, which is their right. They have a right to strike in this Province and we understand that. But the fact of the matter is that since a majority of government employees, albeit in other bargaining units, decided to accept the report, then it was my contention as well as the people who spoke to me that the first item on the - MR.

NEARY: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! A point of order has been raised by the t,on. the member for LaP oi le. MR. NEARY: The minister, in answering the question- Your Honour gave the minister a direction there a few minutes ago that his answer was too long. Now he is ploughing on with his political speech, Mr. Speaker, and I would submit, Your Honour, that'if the minister is not relevant to the question that was asked - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: - does not make it brief, that Your Honour name him.

If he will not do the honourable thing and resign, Your Honour should name him and have him removed from the House. MR. MARSHALL: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, the hon. the President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, the question asked requires an answer presumably. The hon. the minister is answering the question. Now, there would be the biggest howl ·1 2 4 9 ' ·I ' ·I

March 18, 1981 Tape 436 EC - 3 MR. MARSHALL: ever you could hear from the Opposition if a question was asked and a minister got up and said, 'The answer would be too long so I would have to table the question.' Then we would be accused of ., 2 50 .. I " I ''I

Harch 18, 1981 Tape No. 437 SD - 1 HR. W. HARSHALL: not giving full and complete information. So the question that was asked, while the question which was asked was slightly shorter than the answer the minister is giving, the question, Hr. Speaker, demands the comprehensive answer which the minister is giving. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. HR.

SPEAKER (Simms) : Well, with respect to the point of order, first of all it is not up to the Chair to determine whether or not the answer is satisfactory; that is up to the han. member asking the question, and if it is not then the han. member has a procedure which he may follow. I pointed out already that questions as well as answers should be as brief as possible.

I believe the question perhaps allowed the han. minister the opportunity to give a lenghty answer, but be that as it may I would ask the han. minister to conclude his answer as quickly as possible because other members, I am sure, would want to ask questions. Hanpower. HR. DINN: The han. Hinister of Labour and So, Hr. Speaker, the first item on the petition was that the strike should not have occurred. And I do not think anybody in Newfoundland having looked at the process could not but agree that the strike should not have occurred. Now the fact that they decided to go on strike, that is there prerogative.

I cannot do anything about that; that is what is in the legislation and it gives them the opportunity. The other item in the petition was the fact that it was an insult that government offer 8 per cent. Well, the fact of the matter is, as I pointed out to my friends, and they are still my friends - HR. FLIGHT: It is an insult. 1 2 51 ••; " I ··. ''I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 437 SD - 2 MR. DINN: - the fact of the matter is is that they were not offered 8 per cent, it was an average of 23 per cent,and that nobody in the bargaining unit was offered an 8 per cent wage package. Number three was with respect to mediation,and I indicated to the petitioners, as I would to anyone in the labour movement who wanted to meet with me 1 I indicated that there is no provision in the legislation for mediation. And item four on the petition was, and I will conclude with this, Mr. Speaker, item four was the fact that they wanted to get back to the bargaining table.

And as I said to them then and I say to them now, as a matter of fact, on holidays or nights or anytime they want to meet 1 the bargaining table is always open to them and I will be waiting for them. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. T. LUSH: A question to the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn), Mr. Speaker.

Would the minister not admit that his actions in this respect , namely signing the petition that condemned the government, would the minister not admit that in this respect, Sir, his actions were peculiar if not irregular, and incongruous and a breach of Cabinet solidarity? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, in no way did I construe signing that petition breach of Cabinet secrecy or government solidarity in any way.

As the Minister of Labour, one has to have trust; I mean the unions, the employer and the employee have to have the trust of the Minister of Labour. And surely if I cannot sit down at a negotiating table or in a room with people in the labour "12 52 '·I '·I ..

March 18, 1981 Tape No . 437 so - 3 MR. DINN: moveme .nt or employers and talk frankly back and forth,then there is a problem; I mean, a problem exists, a problem of credibility as to what happens - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Bear 1 hear. MR. DINN: - between people. Now the fact of the matter is I have a certain amount of trust in people, '1253 "I· ''1 ·"'I .,~

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 438 EL - 1 l<IR. DINN: and the people who signed that petition - as a matter of fact, I got a call from one of them apologizing to me for what has happened to this point in time,because they certainly at that point in time knew exactly - MR. MOORES: Name him. MR. DINN: MR. FLIGHT: MR. DINN: - what my position was. Why did they ask you to sign it? And, Mr..

Speaker, the fact that I signed the petition on the basis I did, I think was good, because what I was saying was they wanted to get back to the bargaining table,and I agree ·~ith that,and I am sure govern­ ment agrees with that,that there is a position there and they know what government's position is. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Simms ): Order, p~ease! MR. DINN: So there is nothing wrong with that. I mean,that is my job as Minister of Labour. And, Che other, that the strike should not have occured, I have already explained that, Mr.

Speaker, and I do not think any hon. member opposite should see my job any different than that,than to see to it that I negotiate, that I talk to people and that I make sure that I do everything in my power. Last week the hon. member was crit­ icising me for not doing all - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. DINN: that I have and will. MR. LUSH: MR. SPEAKER: for Terra Nova. Order, please! - in power. Mr. Speaker, I consider A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. member ·1 2 54 ''I •,

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 438 EL - 2 MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, the minister can try to weasel his way out of this any way he wants,but the point of the matter is that the minister signed a petition saying that the government offer of eight per cent was an insult. Mr.

Speaker, I am just.wondering,in view of the statement that the minister made some days ago with respect to this, saying that this settlement sets a trend for other industries or public service unions in a geographic area - in other words, the agree.ucnt will be a basis for other agreements for similar employers and unions - does this mean that the minister has also set a trend tnat he will be objecting to the eight per cent increase which the government seems to be holding out for other bargaining units? SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms ) : and Manpower. MR. DINN: Hear, hear!

The han. the Minister of Labour Mr. Speaker, I did, as a matter of fact make a statement last week that generally in.all negot­ iations, all negotiations,that a trend is set when a main bargaining unit is signed. Now, that is true whether it is in the public sector or in the private sector. In the public sector, in this instance General Service,signed and they were the lead group. In the paper industry last year, Atitibi was the main bargainer, were the people that were the main group, once they signed, although other local conditions were negotiated, the main wage package was what Abitibi settled for.

In the case of the fisheries, the main group last year was Fishery Products and when that was signed, generally in the industry, all negotiations centred around that wage package and I maintain that. MR. LUSH: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. member for Terra Nova. "12 55 ''I

March 18 , 1981 Tape No. 438 EL - 3 MR. LUSH: ~r. Speaker, the minister did not answer the gue stion at all. The minister stated that in this particular set of negotiations that this was setting a trend. The question 1 asked ~~e minister was is the minister no'" setting a trend. I.n other words, will the minister no'" do this again, sign other petitions to this effect, saying that the incr·ease of eight per cent is an insult? Will the minister take this po'sition again in the future? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. the Minister of Labour and Manpower. HR.

DINN: I did not in this instance and I \.-ill not ~n ·other instances . MR. FLIGHT: What? MR. DINN: I explained to the people that I signed the petition for and r deem it, by the way - MR. LOSB: (Inaudible) what was in the petition. MR. DINN: - I deem it, by the way, and I say this here publicly in the House of Assembly, I deem it ·1 2 56 ' 'I •. , .. , ' 'I .. , ..

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 439 NM - 1 MR .. DINN: a lack 1 a breach of trust on behalf of the people who got me to sign that petition. MR. FLIGHT: What? What? What? MR. DINN: I mea~ I explained exactly what I signed. The fact of the matter is that- MR. MOORES: MR. DINN: of discussion - MR. MOORES: MR. DINN: Do you hear this? - given the conditions after an hour A breach of trust. - and them understanding and telling me what I signed on behalf of, and then giving me a pen and my signing my signature - MR. THOMS: You did not read it? MR. DINN: I certainly did.

Not only that,but I have not got a copy of the petition here and I think - SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. DINN: MR. FLIGHT: MR. SPEAKER: MR. LUSH: MR. DINN: MR. SPEAKER: MR. LUSH: MR. SPEAKER: for Terra Nova. Oh, oh! Order, please! - I think I can quote the petition verbatim. Did the minister (inaudible) that petition? Order, please! A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Photographic on that one. Order, please! Order, please! A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A final supplementary, the hon. member MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, from what the minister is saying there seems to be no rhyme nor reason for what he is doing.

Either the minister signed the petition unwittingly, he did not know what was on it, or either - SOME HON. MEf•ffiERS: Oh, oh! MR. LUSH: or either, Mr. Speaker, he is dis- agreeing with the government's position, So it is one of these two alternatives: Either the minister signed it unwittingly, or 1257 ''I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 439 NM - 2 MR. LUSH: he disagrees with the government's position. So which is it the minister did? Why did he sign the petition? One or the other, he has done it. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR . DINN: The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. Mr. Speaker, I think I answered that quite clearly for the hon. member. I negotiated, I talked to around ten or twelve people, and I went through each item on the petition and there were inaccuracies in the petition. AN HON. MEMBER: Well why did you sign it? MR. FLIGHT: MR. SPEAKER: MR. DINN: You changed it? Order, please!

Well,I would have assumed, I did not sit down and painstakingly-and maybe that is a mistake. Maybe that is what you have got to do . But the fact of the matter isthat I signed three petitions. I think I ticked- I happened on one petition to tick the ones that I agreed with, which is one in four. The fact of the matter is that I did not painstakingly take the petition and go through it. I mean the hon. member must think that, you know, that is all I have time to do.

The important part of the dis­ cussions that I held with those people, the important part was the principle of this, is that they believe the strike should not have occurred and they wanted to get back to the bargaining table. And by the way, I have not heard from the union since,outside of taking the petition and publishing i~ I do not believe the Minister of Finance yet received it. Although ~robably the whole Province has the petition. The Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) has not received the petition, number one.

And number two, that it seems to me that if I cannot talk to unions,I mean what am I doing as Minister of Labour? SOME HON. MEMBERS : That is right. MR. DINN: I have to do that. That is my job. ·1 2 5 B .. ,

March 18, 1981 Tape No. Nl-1 - 3 MR. SPEAKER (Sinuns): The hon. member for LaPoile. MR . NEARY: Mr. Speaker, what a lack of courage and what weasel words-we have just heard SOME BON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear~ MR. NEARY; - from an hon. minister who obviously is trying to cling on to his job. Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the - insulting words, by the way, will not smooth this over. That is the second time the hon. gentleman has insulted the members of that bargaining unit. The other day he accused them of being bribed. And now he says they are in breach of trust. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.

NEARY: Let me ask the minister, did tne minister read the petition? And if he did read the petition, did he know what was in the petition? T.here were four points, as I understand it, in that petition. The minister did not cross ouc. any objectionable wording in that petition. Now did the minister read it? If he did 1did he understand clearly? Was it explain~ to him? Did he ask questions about it? Did he ~derstand what he was signing? ., 2 59 "'l .. , .. , .,

March 18,1981 MR.SPEAKER (Simms ): Manpower. MR.DINN: Tape No. 440 AH-1 The hon. Minister of Labour and .!-tr. Speaker, I think I indicated to the hon. gentleman that,number one, there were inaccuries in the petition. MR. FLIGHT: MR. NEARY: MR. DINN: What? So what? You signed it anyway. Well,I spent an hour with the people explaining what was in the petition and what was wrong and what was not. And the fact of the matter is that my job is to negotiate with people and to talk to people and see if we can get resolution to a dispute 1 and that is what I was doing.

Now if the purpose of that petition was to politically embarrass,well, I mean that shows to me a certain rapport that these people apparently do not want to have with the Minister of Labour. I mean if they cannot sit down and talk to me on a general basis and discuss these things,they have a problem. I do it with all unions in the Province. Now I knew what was in the petition and I indicated then what was wrong with the petition and what I disagreed with. Government's position with respect to that strike is the offer that is on the table and I agree with that offer right now. MR. NEARY: A supplementary 1 Mr.

Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: for LaPoile. A supplementary. The hon. member MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker 1 the hon. gentleman has admitted that he knew what was in the petition. He had read the petition, h~ spent an hour with the workers-which is most unusual by the way. The minister is sidetracking the issue,Mr. Speaker. When the minister talks about negotiations he is talking about negotiations with the negotiating committee and not with the individual members of the unit 1 and that is where ·1 2 6 0

March 18,1981 Tape No. 440 AH-2 MR.NEARY: the hon. gentleman is trying to drag a red herring into this whole matter. But the hon. gentleman knew what he was signing. Now when the hon.gentleman read the petition 1 did he detect, did he know that there were parts of that petition that criticized the government of which he was a member; denounced government policy that he helped make in secret at an oath bound meeting of the Cabinet? Was the hon. gentleman aware - obviously he was ... that there were parts o·f that petition that denounced government's policy? MR.SPEAKER (Simms): The hon.

Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, and I indicated to them what the government policy was and the fact that there were inaccuries in the petition and the fact that I did not agree with those parts. I did not agree with those parts in the petition. SOME HON.MEMBERS: MR.NEARY: MR.SPEAKER: member for LaPoile. Oh, oh! A final supplementary Mr.Speaker. A final supplementary. The hon. MR.NEARY: Does the hon. gentleman now feel to this day that he did the right thing, that he denounced government policy by signing that petition? Does he now stick by his guns?

Does he have the courage now to say in this House that he knowingly signed a petition that denounced government policy? SOME HON.MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: Manpower. MR. DINN: denounce government policy. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. DINN: Hear, hear! The hon. Minister of Labour and Mr. Speaker, I mean I did not Oh, oh! I certainly did not. ·1 2 61 '' I .. , ' '1 ''I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 440 AH-3 MR. DINN : I certainly did not denounce government policy. As a matter of fact,I ~ndicated to the petitioners what government policy was. I explained that there was no eight per cent offer. It is ~onic,Mr. Speaker,that we have the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr . Neary) over questioning me like this for doing my job, what I consider to be my job . The hon. member when he was m~ister made a complete disg .race of his portfolio. 1262 '1 .. "1

March 18, 1981 SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Tape 441 EC - 1 Hear, hear! The hon. the member for Windsor - Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Labour and Manpower,too. Obviously any idiot would recognize that the purpose of that petition, the only purpose, would have b~en to put pressure on government to resolve the strike and to get the workers back to work. T mean, that petition could have served no other purpose. Now, did the minister realize that that was the purpose of the petition? And what did the minister hope to accomplish by signing the petition?

Did the minister sign the petition hoping to put pressure on the governmen~ to resolve this strike that should have been resolved long ago? MR. SPEAKER: and Manpower. MR. DINN: The hon. the Minister of Labour Mr. Speaker, as I explained to the hon. member, the petition petitioned government to get back to the bargaining table. That is what it was petitioning. MR. FLIGHT: SOME HON. MEMBERS: But you are the government. Oh, oh! MR. DINN: And, Mr. Speaker, I was indicating to the petitioners that I was ready and the bargaining table was there.

As a matter of fact, on Monday when there was a holiday, I was in my office - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. DINN: - patiently waiting for a call for the petitioners' negotiating committee - SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. DINN: bargaining table. Oh, oh! Order, please! - to call me to sit down at the .,2 6 3 •·I '' I '·I ''I

March 18, 1981 Tape 441 EC - 2 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please! Order, please! When bon. members ask questions, I presume they want to hear an answer. It is very difficult, I am sure, for them tq hear. MR. FLIGHT: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the bon. the member for Windsor - Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, as the minister knows, the role of the Minister of Labour is to get two parties together.

If this strike had been in the private sector, he would have been using his influence a?d eventually using his clout to bring the unions and the private company, whichever eompany it might have been, together. Whyhas not the minister used his ministerial authority to get those parties together instead of going out and signing a petition to put pressure on the whole Cabinet? It seems that the minister was hoping to accomplish by pressure on the government that he is a part of, what he does not appear to be able to accomplish with his own ministerial authority. MR.

SPEAKER: The bon. the Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, it seems to me that the pressure right now would be on the negotiating committee for NAPE in that their workers are petitioning that they get back to the bargaining table and they have not even called me yet. (') ,v, ( i l . ~ •. , MR. R. MOORES: And you signed the petition. MR. DINN: I would think it is pressure on both sides to go to the bargaining table. Yet I have not got a call from the people who are petitioning to go to the bargaining table. I would think the pressure is on the negotiating committee now. MR. WHITE: Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the member for Lewisporte. '12 54 ''I '"I '"I

March 18, 1981 Tape 441 EC - 3 MR. WHITE: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Labour and Manpower as well. Mr. Speaker - SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. WHITE: I specifically saw the minister, Oh, oh! Order, please! -I specifically saw the minister on television talking about the possibility of resigning. Now, if the minister now says that he was not doing anything wrong, why did the question of his resigning from the Cabinet come up in the first place if it was not in his mind that he might have to resign over this matter?- Nhich he should do. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: and Manpower.

MR. DINN: Hear, hear! The hon. the Minister of Labour Mr. ·speaker, I would consider that anybody who arrived at a conclusion at some point down the road, a year or two years down the road, that he could not do his job, that he would resign. MR. FLIGHT: years. MR. DINN: (Inaudible) for two If I thought that I would get into a position down the road that I could not do my job - and I believe I am doing an excellent job right now - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. DINN: I believe that I am doing an excellent job right now as Minister of Labour and Manpower . . 12 6 5 .

March 18, 1981 SO~_E HON. ME.'>ffiERS: SO .M:E HON. MEMBERS: MR. J. DINN: Tape No. 442 Oh, oh! Hear, hear! DW - 1 But I would certainly consider down the road,if I thought I was impairing the labour movements or any em~loyer or employee from negotiating, then down -the road I would certainly consider resigning. MR. F. '!'illiTE: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): for Lewisporte. MR. F. WHITE: A sup~lementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. member Mr. Speaker, my supplementary is this.

Since the minister is the Minister of Labour and Manpower, and since he has obviously canpraniserl the govern­ ment's situation in dealing with unions in this Province, particularly the Public Service unions, he has compromised I the government's position in dealing with them, if the minister will not do the honourable thing and resign from the Cabinet, .M~. Speaker, why does he not go to the Premier and asked to be moved to another department of government? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. J. DINN: Mr.

Speaker, I think the fortunate thing, the very fortunate thing 1 because I think this thing got blown out of proportion - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. J. DINN: I believe that the very fortunate thing is th~t we have a Premier like the Premier we have in that he does not listen to, he does not listen necessarily to what members opposite say,nor ooes he listen necessarily to what is printed in papers, he will ask the minister to care in and e~lain,"Jerry, what is the storey on this?"- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! ·1 2 66 •• I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 442 DW - 2 MR. J. DINN: and I gave him the exact story. And, Mr. Speaker, I have no apologies to make to anyone. MR. FLIGHT: what you mean. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. J. HODDER: MR. SPEAKER: MR. J.. HODDER: You can say what you like, it is Oh, oh! Order, please! Mr. Speaker. Order, please! The hon. member for Port au Port. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn).

Since there will be ongoing confrontations and strikes in the Province, does the minister not feel that because of the way that he has behaved in this particular strike that his credibility would be such that he would have no negotiating or no power of influence over bodies in the Province, does the minister not see the danger that if he remains as Minister of Labour and Manpower what will happen in future strikes and negotiations in this Province? MR. SPEAKER: Manpower. MR. J. DINN: The hon. Minister of Labour and Mr. Speaker, unlike many hon. members opposite, many hon. members opposite, - SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. J. DINN: - the hon. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren), the people on the coast want him to resign and other hon. members opposite, I have not heard of one person in the labour movement, nor have I heard of one person as an employer, nor one person in government requesting my resignation. So I must be doing a great job. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. T. LUSH: Mr. Speaker. M_~. SPEAKER: Order, please! We have time for one final sup­ plementary. The hon. member for Terra Nova. 1267 ''t ''t " I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 442 DW - 3 MH. T. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, again referring to a statement that the minister made some days ago when talking about this dispute - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Simms): · Order, please! Order, please! SOME HON. MR~ERS: Oh, oh! HR. SPF.AKER: Order, please! Order, please! Obviously hon. members are aware of the parliamentary traditions where interjections nack and forth are allowed,but when they become continuous and loud the Chair intends to in~ It does nothing to improve the decorum of the House. The hon. member for Terra Nova. MR. T. LUSH: Mr.

Speaker, I am still very confused as to why the minister signed this particular petition. Maybe - I am asking the minister-was it because he could not get his colleagues to move in this _dispute, could not get them to get back to the bargaining table and this is why he signed the petition? Was this the reason why he signed the petition,and whether he still supports the oetitioners? 14R. FLIGHT: MR. SPEAKER: Manpower. MR. J. DINN: To put pressure on them. Order, please! The hon. Minister of Labour and Having gone through about twenty- five minutes of Question Period - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. J. DINN: - and having explained what I have done with respect to the netition and talked to the petitioners for an hour, and, Mr. Speaker, they are requesting a return to the bargaining table and they have not sent the petition to the hon. the Minister of Finance ., 2 6 8

March 18, 1981 Tape No . 442 Dt<l - 4 l·ffi. J . DINN: (Dr. Collins) yet nor have the y called my office to ask me to have the negotiating committee to go to the table 1 I mean there must have been something other than petitioning me fo:~; - I mean,there might have been alterior motives - ! do not know . I cannot attribute motives to people. SOME HON . }1EMBERS: Oh , oh! MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Order, please! MR. J. DINN: The fact of the matter is is ~h2t the.re is no request from that bargaining unit to go back to the table. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: expired. Order, please! Order, please! The time for Oral Questions has 'I 2 6 9 •·t ' 'I .. ''I ' 'I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 443 SD - 1 PRESENTING PETITIONS MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The han. member for Port au Port. MR. J. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I rise to present a petition on behalf of forty re~idents of the community of Piccadilly in the district of Port au Port. Mr. Speaker, this petition is signed by forty regidents there, they are all householders, and the prayE::: of the petitions is, "That we, the undersigned, ask the government to provide the people of Piccadilly Head with decent drinking water". Now, Mr.

Speaker, this particular group of people have, over the past four years, presented some four or five petitions to this particular House and last year a water committee was set up in the community under a new plan which the government brought out last year whereby the residents of the area would pay a certain amount of money and the government would match a certain amount of money. Now under that particular plan this water committee \-tas incorporated, I might point out as well, Mr.

Speaker, that the problem in this particular area first came to light, and I brought it up in the House of Assembly some three or four years ago, when children became sick in this particular

section of Piccadilly and I asked the Department of Health to go out there and they checked the water in the community and they found that

whereas .4 counts of coliform per millilitre of water is dangerous 1 some of these people had as high as forty, practically sewer water as far as the safety of the. water was concerned. And at that time the Department of Health had advise .d. people to eith.er stop using their wells or to use chlorine in them and to boil the water . Now this has been going on for some four years, Mr. Speaker, but one of the things that has happened is that although the government brought in this programme 'ast year, this programme of matching i the ·1 2 7 0 . ''I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 443 SD - 2 MR. HODDER: community services programme whereby there was matching between the residents and the provincial government, I understand this year, Mr. Speaker, that the programme is being wrapped up. And these people have already been incorporated under this particular - and they have a standing water committee. I understand under the plan you have to have fifteen families~ there are some thirty to forty families there who are willing to shell out the money for the water system. It is a health hazard.

People have open,shallow wells, you cannot drill wells there because it is a very low lying area and the deep wells are found to have salt water usually mixed with the fresh . so they have to have a reservoir built. So, Mr. Speaker, for the members' information, this is the Piccadilly Head portion of Piccadilly which has it own water committee and it has been incorporated by the Department of Municipal Affairs. So, Mr. Speaker, I would ask that the minister take this petition into account. It is a very, very serious matter and there is a health problem here.

There were two water committess formed in this area, 0ne group, I might say, has been funded and has received their water system,but this particular area which was actually the worst area where the health officials found the water to be most contaminated 1 thepe people ·1 2 71 ' 't ''t .. , ''I ''I

March lB, 1981, Tape 444, Page 1 -- apb MR. HODDER: have not received water. So I would table this petition, Mr. Speaker, and ask that it be referred to the department to which it relates. MR. SPEAKER (SD-11·15) _: MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: Further petitions? I rise to support - Does the hon. member wish to speak in support of this petition? The hon. member for LaPoile . MR. NEARY: - the petition presented by my colleague the member for Port au Port (~r. Hodder) on behalf of forty of his constituents who live in the community of Piccadilly. Mr.

Speaker, I do not know whether the minister is going to respond to the petition, but if he does he could tell us what is happening in his department as far as water services are concerned. I understand, and the member pointed this out in his remarks, that the Water Services Branch of the department has been dismantled.

There was a police investigation into certain aspects of the Water Services Branch of that department a couple of years ago~ we have never gotten the report in the House, they dismantled the Water Services and decided to contract the work out, and I believe this is where the thing got bogged down, Mr. Speaker; it cost more to contract the work out, actually, than it did to maintain a Water Services Branch in the minister's department.

So it might be a good opportunity for the minister, if she would be kind enough to respond to the petition and give us a progress report on what has happened to the Water Services Branch of the minister's department. In the meantime, Mr. Speaker, because there is a health hazard involved in this '12 7 2 ''i ''I 'I

March 18, 1981, Tape 444, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: particular community, I would suspect that the matter is urgent and I would like to draw the petition to the attention of the Minister of Health (Mr. House) before an epidemic breaks out in that community. I think government should move quickly . It is not an ordinary 1 routinP. oetition, it is a matter of urgent public importance, as far as that community is concer~ed,and something that should be dealt with swiftly, should be dealt with quickly. So, Mr.

Speaker, I have no hesitation at all in supporting the prayer of the petition and look forward to hearing the minister's remarks on some of the things that have been raised. MR. SPEAKER (Simms l : Further petitions? MR. WALSH: Mr. Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Menihek. MR. WALSH: Mr. Speaker, I rise on behalf of 5,000 residents of my district, in presenting this petition. Mr. Speaker, the prayer of the petition is as follows: "We,the undersigned,support the Labrador City Library Board in their endeavours to obtain government funding for a new library building in Labrador City." Mr.

Speaker, due to the lengthiness of the background of this particular petition, and rather than take up the time of this hon. House, I would ask permissi.on to table th .e background of the thing instead of reading it. MR. SPEAKER: Is it all right to table the background information wit~ the petition? Agreed? SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAXER: the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: .12 7 3 Agreed. The hon. the Leader of Mr. Speaker, on this ''i ''i

March 18, 1981, Tape 444, Page 3 -- apb MR. STIRLING: side we are very pleased to again work with the member. We have had now - this is the fourth situation in which the member had to bring in a petition, the second in which he had over 5,000 names, to get gover~ent to reverse as far as that community first time was the planting of the flag on the Labrador boundary; the second time was when the Minister of Energy (Mr.

Barry) said t?ere was no way that they could continue to operate Wabush Mines t""'" .t we were silly for suggesting that Wabush Mines could continue to operate and stockpile; the third time was when the minister had announced that Newfoundland Hydro was going to jack up the prices, and there was another petition of 5,000 people brought in and we ganged up again, this side of the House supporting the private member.

Now they have decided to change their minds on that and again we are very pleased to support the petition, again with the 5,000 people, to get the facilities that they deserve in Labrador City- Wabush .area, as they deserve throughout the whole of Newfoundland and Labrador. We take great pleasure in again supporting the petition of the 5,000 people and again I hope we will be able to change the opinion of government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Does the hon. member wish to speak to this petition? Further petitions? for Bay of Islands. MR. WOODROW: The hon. the member Mr.

Speaker, I would like to present the following petition. I will read, first of all, the prayer of the petition: "We,the undersigned,support the efforts of the Western Newfoundland Historic Trust to have the Brakes properly ·1 2 7 4 •. 1 ''I ., . I

March 18, 1981, Tape 444, Page 4 -- apb MR. WOODROW: restored and designated by the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador ." ••j .. , ., 2 7 5

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 445 NM - 1 MR. WOODROW: Now, Mr. Speaker, we have on this petition 22 0· names from the communi ties of Meadows, Cox' s Cove, Gillams, Templeton's Collegiate in Gillarns and there are also more names to follow. Now requests have been made for restoration of the property as an historic site,to Cabinet when they were in Corner Brook last year; also to the hon. Minister of Education (Ms. Verge), and to my colleague from Humber West (Mr. Baird) who just moved back to his own seat, and of course myself.

The Brake famil y is believed to be the second one to move into the Bay of Islands area, coming in the late 1800s,..in the late 1700s 1 I am sorry. The premises used during the late 1800s and 1900s were a complete service centre.

The property is located on the beach in Meadows and consists of, one, a general store which contained a post office, two - barber shop; three - telegraph office; four - ranger office; five - a two story warehouse for sale and services of Acadia engines; six - the home of the owner, which was lived in up until 1974; seven - a barn, a blacksmith shop, all still standing; eight - a bakery shop and a slaughter house; nine - the property also served as ferry transfer service point for persons travelling from inner bay to the outer Bay of Islands; number ten - the reason for the restoration is as follows~ There is nothing from the past for the future generations to see that is a part of our heritage.

It would also serve as an educational and a tourist attraction. Number eleven - the Historic Trust has made an estimate of what it will cost to restore it and the owner will sell at a reasonable price. Number twelve - if it had been in the hands of the Historic Trust,between $50,000 and $60,000 would have been allocated to work on it this year. Now as a result of the brief presented to Cabinet in Corner Brook last year,I am glad to quote from a letter written by the Premier to Mr. Michel Lavasieur - ·1 2 7 6 .. , ''I .. , ''I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 445 NM - 2 AN HON. MEMBER: You should learn French,boy. MR. WOODROW: - and I will quote, "This struck me as particularly interesting and I have been assured by the department that they are examining your proposal in great detail. I feel sure that this could be a worthwhile under­ taking and could eventually become a splendid example of an historic Newfoundland settlement." Finally, Mr. Speaker, a minute from a council meeting which reads as follows, this was the council in Meadows - Mr. Speaker, if I go overtime I am going to ask the members for a bit of leave - SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR.

WOODROW: By leave. By leave. Thank you, very much. This minute, I have it at my disposal, it was proposed in council, the council of Meadows, it was regularly moved and seconded that the community council of Meadows would maintain the Brake property after it was restored to its original state. Mr. Speaker, I place this petition before the hon. House for their kind consideration as it will let young people of the future generation know what our past was like, and I refer it to the department concerned. Now I also have, Mr.

Speaker, an extract, I have fifty-two copies made, for each member of the House, which I think I am allowed to table and they can be passed on to the members concerned. I regret that the Minister of Recreation, Culture and Youth (Mr. Dawe) is not around. I am sure if he was he would probably have something to say about it. But I have been trying, Mr. Speaker, since I was elected to get some kind of a mus·eum in some part of the Bay of Islands. I have tried desperately hard and I 1277 " I ' ' I ''i

March 18, 1981 Tape NO. 446 EL - 1 MR. WOODROW: am hoping that this will be the result of my efforts and the result of others such as Michel Lavasieur who has worked and who is working desperately hard to see this property be­ come a historic site for the Province of Newfoundland and Lab­ rador. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. STIRLING -: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): osition. MR. STIRLING: Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Leader of the Opp- Yes, I rise to support the pet- ition so ably presented by member for Bay of Islands (L.

Woodrow),given all the courtesy from this side of the House to give him full time to be able to present his case 1 because that is the kind of thing that we support on this side of the House, the kind of thing that needs to be done to preserve rural Newfoundland and give us some opportunity to show the people of Newfoundland and Labrador just what our historic roots are. MR. NEARY: MR . STIRLING: They can call it the woodrow Museum. And, Mr.

Speaker, while we are deal- ing with that, maybe the member can get after the province be­ cause they are so concerned with the offshore oil and the con­ stitution that I understand that there is an outstanding offer from the Federal Government, something like about a million dollars voted towards setting up such an historic community as he is talking about and that the Provincial Government, as I understand it, have not been able to make up their minds what to do with it.

There are any numbers of hundreds of thousands of dollars and millions of dollars available if we had a government that would co-operate with Ottawa and ask 'I 2 7 8 ''I ''I ..

March 18, 1981 Tape NO. 446 EL - 2 MR. STIRLING: for their assistance.And I presume that you are going to send a copy of this petition to the fed­ eral member for your district . I am sure that you will find that he will give you the same kind of support that we have on this side of the ' House. SOME HON. !'!EMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Any further petitions? This being Wednesday, Private Members' Day, itis myresponsibility then to call Motion No. 1, moved by the hon. the member for Menihek (P. Walsh), which reads;

WHEREAS the people of Labrador should enjoy the same standard of service as island residents of the Province;and

WHEREAS better transportation and community services are ne­ cessary for the development of a vibrant Labrador society; and

WHEREAS the Government of the Province has a proposal before the Federal Government on a coastal Labrador DREE Agreement;and

WHEREAS the Government of the Province has a proposal before the Federal Government for a start on the Trans Labrador High­ way; and

WHEREAS the Province is ready to move on both of these matters

now, THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this hon. House urge the Federal Government to live up to its responsibilities to sign these agreements at the earliest possible opportunity. The han. the member for Menihek. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WALSH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . Mr. Speaker, while the Island portion of the Province's trans- portation system is poor relative to other provinces, the Lab­ rador portion is almost totally lacking in any sort of a system at all, yet it is this portion of the Province which is very rich in ., 2 7 9 .. ' "I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 446 EL - 3 MR. ~vALSH: natural resources and where a sub- stantial portion of new resource development will occur during the rest of this century and beyond. Proper transportation systems in the Labrador region,while be!ing of monumental import­ ance to the resource development 1 will also have significant positive social impact. Mr. Speaker, as a continuing ele­ ment in the construction of the Labrador transportation sys­ tem, the Province propo~es to build a tolt road from Lab­ rador City to Churchill Falls.

This road would constitute a large element of the future arterial road across Labrador road known as the Trans-Labrador Highway 1which would link three distinct populated centres together.Going f~om West to East, these centres are the Labrador City area, the Churchill Falls area and the Lake Melville area with the following pop­ ulations, Mr. Speaker: Labrador Cit~ approximately 14,000, Wabush with 4,000, a subtotal·of 18,000; Churchill Falls with 930, Lake r-1elville with 1,222, Happy Valley, 8,075 and Mud Lake, 70, for a overall population, Mr. Speaker, of 28,097. Mr.

Speaker, these three areas, developed at different times, have very few economic and soc­ ial connections and are largely independent of one another. The first to be developed was the Lake Melville area where, during the Second World War, the Royal Canadian Air Force established a base. Following the war it became primarily an American base, but in the early 1970s, the United States Air Force withdrew. Due to this and as well as the phasing down of the logging operations caused by the failure of the Labrador Linerboard, the local economy suffered and is now in a depressed state. '12 6 0 ''I ''I ''I ' "i ''I ''I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 447 AH-1 MR. WALSH: However, with the imminent development of the hydro sites on the Lower Churchill River, the area will take on a new importance, becoming the major landing and supply base for the construction projects. The most likely d~velopment site is the Muskrat Falls, twelve kilometers West of Goose Bay, which after a five to seven year construction period will be capable of generating 600 megawatts. -Following Muskrat Falls, or possibly preceding it, would be the development of the Gull Island site located thirty-seven kilometers West of Goose Bay.

This is the largest unharnessed source ot hydro electricity in Labrador. Once fully developed it will be capable of generating 1,700 megawatts. This enormous project would take six to nine years to complete. Following Gull Island and Muskrat Falls, there would be other similar hydro developments. Thus the outlook for the Lake Melville area is quite bright. Located 260 kilometers due West of Goose Bay, and midway between Goose Bay and Labrador City, is the community of Churchill Falls. This is a town of 930 population which is practically all the labour force employed by the Churchill Falls-Labrador Corporation.

Their main function is to operate and maintain the vast hydro facilities in that area. Mr. Speaker, the area around Labrador City-Wabush was developed in the early and mid 1960s. Developers were the Iron Ore Company of Canada and Wabush Mines respectively. The local economy is almost exclusively based on the mining of ore. Reserves in this Western region of Labrador are estimated at a total of ten billion tons, Mr. Speaker. In 1979 estimated production was 33 million tons, roughly fifty per cent of the total iron ore production in Canada. ·1 2 B 1 'I •• I 'I ''I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 447 AH-2 MR. WALSH: Mr. Speaker, the three populated centres - Labrador City, Churchill Falls, Lake Melville - are serviced by a variety of means of transport. These are largely independent of one another and go in a North-South fashion. There is only the most rudimentary of East-West transportation. Access to Labrador City, located in the Western extremity of Labrador, can be gained either by air o~ by rail. T·he rail link operated by the Quebec, North Shore and Labrador Railway begins at the Port of Seven Islands, Quebec, to the South.

It penetrates 650 kilometers Northward through Labrador and back then into Quebec to Schefferville. A rail line branches off the main route and goes some forty kilometers West of Labrador City. Incoming provisions are usually materials for mining operations and consumer goods. Iron ore is a near exclusive shipment outward. Freight is also brought in by air, as are most tra~ellers. The only road in the area is the ten kilometers of road connecting Labrador City and Wabush to the nearby Duley Lake provincial park. Mr. Speaker, Churchill Falls is serviced by air and by a combination of road and rail.

The air service is the sole means of passenger travel and accounts for some movements of freight; however, most provisions come via a combination of rail and road. Supplies are landed at Seven Islands and then transported by train 400 kilometers Northward to Esker. From there they are then transported by truck over Brinco Road. Mr. Speaker, we call it the Brinco Road because it was built by the developers of Churchill Falls, which was BRINCO . This is a 160 kilometer good quality gravel road which connects Esker with Churchill Falls.

It was built as a supply route for the construction and operation of the Churchill Falls hydro site. Also Churchill Falls is linked by •j 2 8 2 .. , .

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 447 AH-3 MR. WALSH: tolt road to Goose Bay-Happy Valley. Due to a rail strike during construction of the hydro facilities, the so-called Freedom Road was built. This 260 mile road provided an alternative supply route during construction. · Currently it is closed during the Winter months and is seldom used during the remainder of the year. The main importance is that it provides access to the mineral belt of Central Labrador for mineral explorations. Mr. Speaker, finally 300 kilometers to the East is the Goose Bay-Happy Valley area at the head of Lake Melville.

The transportation system there consists of forty kilometers of road North to North West River and an airport, the Eastern end of the Freedom Road and port facilities. During the Summer months supplies are brought in by ship. However, Mr. Speaker, ice conditions prevent shipping from five to six months. Up until this period of time, of course, we have got some more information on that as we all know. Consequently during Winter months goods must be air-freighted. Mr. Speaker, the construction of a proposed tolt road from Labrador City to Churchill Falls will have a significant short and long-term impact.

The short-term impact would be the construction activities and the removal of the isolation presently felt by residents of Labrador City. Mr. Speaker, the long-term benefits would have to be determined by examining the road as a ·1 2 8 3 't .. ''I .. , 'I

March 18, 1981 Tape 448 EC - 1 MR. WALSH: segment of a greater Tr~~s-Labrador highway which could eventually be linked to the Central Canada road system. In fact, the major feasibility study of the Trans-Labrador Highway was completed in 1975 by ~· J. Noah and Associates and the provincial Department of Transport. It discussed the merits of a highway from Baie Comeau, Quebec to a community on the North Shore .of the St. Lawrence to Forteau, Newfoundland.

That would be 950 kilometers and go via Labrador City - Chux~:,ill Falls- Goose Bay,and an alternative route via Labrador City­ Esker - Churchill Falls and Goose Bay was also examined in the study . Following is a list of impacts expected from the road. The long-term facts are based on a presumption that at least a Trans-Labrador Highway will be constructed. Mr. Speaker, in short-~erm, the construction of the road would mean an injection of $38 million into the Labrador economy over a five year period.

This would be a substantial boost, not only to the depressed Newfoundland con­ struction industry, but also to the Labrador region economy. Studies on the Island have shown 20 per cent of the contract paid as wages. This would represent $7~7.§ million to the residents of Labrador. Mr. Speaker, the effect of isolation on the people of Western Labrador was recognized in the 1975 study - in particular, it was pointed out in 1972 - was a crippling three month strike. And in recent years labour turnover has been undul y high.

A primary cause of labour restlessness is the isolated condition of Labrador City, Wabush and Schefferville, a condition basically attributed to the lack of road access to the region. This creates a feeling among employees of being cut off from the rest of Canada. .12 8 4 .. " . ''I ''I

March 18, 1981 Tape 448 EC - 2 MR. WALSH: Mr. Speaker, the completion of thetolt road removes to some degree the feeling of isolation and dependency of employees by allowing at least Summer travel between Churchill Falls and Western Labrador. Also it would give people access to the wilderness area. Mr. Speaker, in long-term, this road would be the basis for a Trans-Labrador Highway. Mr. Speaker, the construction of a Labrador Highway would facili~ate the development of the enormous resource potential in Labrador. 'It would provide a supply link for construction of additional hydro facilities.

It woul.d permit the development of the lumber industry around Lake Melville by giving access to markets on the Island and in Western Labrador. Mineral exploration and mining development would be sped up by giving greater access to the central mineral belt. The development of tourism and commercial inland fishing would be enhanced. Finally, it would permit the easier flow of goods and labour to developing areas in Labrador. Mr. Speaker, the renewable resources based economy of the Labrador Coast is contained by an inadequate regional transportation network.

In order for the growth associated with the fishery and other resource areas to occur in an orderly fashion, inter-regional and community road networks will be required to be constructed and upgraded. For example, much of the fish collected and distributed in Labrador is done by boat. This s~rstem in the Labrador Straits area has come to depend upon rudimentary road system which connects the communities in this area. Mr. Speaker, in 1977 - 1978, Labrador Strait~ recorded 37.9 per cent and 36.4 per cent respectively of the total Coastal Labrador fish landing.

It is estimated that the Straits fishery will in the future continue· to account for at least 30 per cent of the 'total Coastal Labrador fish landings. ·12 B 5 .. , •·t ' 'I

March 18, 1981 Tape 448 EC - 3 MR. WALSH: In 1980, despite considerable growth projections in the other sub -regions of the coast, projected fish landings, for example, in the Stra its will be 900 metric tons in 1985 as compared to landin gs of 3,200 metric tons in 1978. Mr. Speaker, most of this fish will be moved over the local road network twice as raw fish, being collected in the processing centres and as finished product ~eing shipped out of the area . And in addition, fresh salmon from the North of Red Bay is delivered to that community for road transport to Blanc Sablon, where it is shipped out by air.

Most of the fish landed in the Straits area will be caught during the mid-Summer trap salmon seasons when ambient temperatures and potential for fish spoilage is at its peak. Any possible reduction in transit times where fish are held at less than optimum required temperature conditions 1286 '"1 .,

March 18, 1981, Tape 449, Page l -- apb MR. WALSH: would be significant in preventing spoilage and/or deterioration. Mr. Speaker, the communities which can expect the most growth as a result of expanding renewable resources, resource economy are: L'Anse Au Clair, Red Bay, Mary's Harbour, Fox Harbour, Williams Harbour, Black Tickle, Cartwright, Makkovik, Nain and Hopedale. Mr. Speaker, these communities do not have an existing road network which is - MR. NEARY: Did you say Makkovik? MR. WALSH: Yes, I did. MR. NEARY: Davis Inlet? MR. WALSH: Yes, I did. MR. NEARY: No, you did not. MR. WALSH: I am sorry. I apologize.

Davis Inlet. These communities do not an existing road network which is adequate to handle the increased economy, the economic activity which will be occurring within them. Many of these communities have little more than footpaths, which presently prevent the use of equipment on it as simple pickup trucks for community service such as garbage collection. The isolation of these communities due to their physical remoteness, is compounded by the fact that several of the communities are not physically integrated units. Mr.

Speaker, it is estimated the cost of road construction in these communities will be: Nain, one mile,ata cost.of $225,000;Hopedale, 3 miles at a cost of $375,000; Makkovik, 2 miles at $225,000 Davis Inlet, half a mile at $ll0,000, Rigolet, 1.5 miles at $225,000, Cartwright, 3 miles at $250,000, Mary's Harbour, l.2 miles at $75,0007 Fox Harbour, l.S miles for 1287 ''I '"I 'I .. , "I

March 18, 1981, Tape 449, Page 2 -- apb MR. WALSH: $225,000, Charlottetown, a half mile at $110,000, for an overall total, Mr. Speaker, of $2,366,000. Mr. Speaker, during the construction of the community road in Mary's Harbour, it is proposed that 'a road be constructed to connect this community with Lodge Bay, a distance of seven miles, seven miles aside from the savings to be realized by construction of this road when the construction equipment is in the area. The road will add to the economic development of bpth communities.

Such a road will give Lodge Bay residents access to the medical clinic in Mary's Harbour as well as to provide these residents with improved access to the hinterland area between the Axes and the St. Lewis Rivers, one of the major forest areas on the Labrador coast. Mr. Speaker, this road will, as well, provide for the increased interaction of the people of these two communities, enhancing the quality of the life for the area's residents in a

section of the region which is physically isolated form the rest of the coast. Mr. Speaker, the over­ all cost of this road transportation system and network in Labrador is a total of $30 million. Mr. Speaker, this government has had a request in Ottawa for DREE funding for various projects in this Province, and one of them is the Trans-Labrador Highway and the coastal road network, and to this day, Mr. Speaker, there has not been any funds forthcoming. This government is willing and ready to put their share into it. Thank you. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ MR. NEARY: How much? How much? A lousy 10 per cent? MR. SPEAKER: The bon. the member for Torngat Mountains. ·12 5 B 'I •·, .,

March. 18, 198~, Tape 449., Page 3 ~ apb SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR.. SPEAKER (Simms) : Torngat .Mountains. MR. WARREN: Oh, oh! Order, please! The hon. the member for Mr. Speaker, first I would like to go on record as saying that this resolution almost contains enough ingredients for me to support it­ almost! Now, then, Mr. Speaker, when one begins to :read the resolution one can see that it doe .s lead out some very valuable information.

So with that in mind I weuld like to amend thi! resolution as follows: by deleting all the words after 'community . services' in paragraph 2, and replacing them with the following: 'and support for the development of the fishery on the Labrador coast wh.ich is necessary for the development of a vibrant Labrador society; AND

WHEREAS the Government of the Province has a proposal :before the federal Goveriime,nt on a coastal Labrador DREE agreement; AND

WHEREAS the government of the Province has a "12 8 9 '"1 '") ., •·I ''I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 450 MR. G. WARREN: proposal before the federal government for a start on the Trans-Labrador Highwa~ and

whereas the Province say they are ready to move on both matters; that SD - 1 THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this han. House UEge both the federal and provincial governments to sign these agreements at the earliest possible opportunity. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear. MR. WARREN: BE IT THEREORE FURTHER RESOLVED that the House of Assembly establish a Select Committee to meet with representatives of both levels of government who are ~ involved in negotiations of these agreements for the purpose of determining the reasons for the extensive delay which has occurred in the implication of these programmesj and a Select Committee report back to the House of Assembly within sixty days with their recommendations.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Seconded by? I MR. WARREN: Seconded by the Leader of the Opposition. MR. SPEAKER: The Chair would rule that this type of an amendment does not negate the original motion, I do treat it in the same category as other amendments referred to in May's Parliamentary Practices, l~th Edition, page 387, which means that th.e object of an amendment may be either to modify a question in such a way as to increase its acceptability etc., etc., and it is my understanding that this is what this particular amendment does.

And I would also further rule that in the case of this particular amendment, the debate that will follow will not be rest:r;-icted solely to the amendment because I believe the purpose is one and the same, the ame~dment and the motion. So I therefore rule that the amendment is in o:r;-der. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. 'J 2 9 0 ''I .,, ''I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 450 SD - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : I would like to read the amendment. Perhaps it could be agreed rather than to read the entire amendment, I could point out to the hon . members exactly what has transpired by this amendment. The second paragraph of the Resolution now reads, 'WHEREAS better transportation and community services etc., etc.', now will read, 'WHEREAS bette~ transportation and community services and support for the development of the fishery on the Labrador Coast are necessary for the development of a vibrant Labrador society'.

And then I believe the resolve part, the final paragraph now reads, 'RESOLVED that this han. House urge the federal government to live up to etc., etc.', that is amended to read, 'This han. House urge both the federal and provincial governments to sign these agreements at the earliest possible opportunity'.

And then one final paragraph that has been added, 'BE IT THEREFORE FURTHER RESOLVED that the House of Assembly establish a Select Committee to meet with representatives of both levels of government who are involved in the negotiation of these agreements for the purpose of determining the reasons for the extensive delay which has occurred in the implementation of these programmes and the Select Committee report back to the House of Assembly within sixty days with their recommendations'. MR. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER: President of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: A point of order. I think, Mr.

Speaker - A point of order, tbe bon. the - the gist of the thing, the han. gentlemen want to get their friends in Ottawa off the hook again. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. There is no point of order. The Chair recognizes the hon. member for Torngat Mountains. ·1 2 91 ''I "I

March 18, 1981 SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. WARREN: MR. SPEAKER (Simms): MR. WARREN: Tape No. 450 Hear, hear. Mr. Speaker - SD - 3 Do you want to ask the question of time? Yes, Mr. Speaker. How much time do I have now? Do I continue with twenty minutes from now? MR. SPEAKER: It is appropriate that the question is asked so that we do have a reference for the future in case there is any misinterpretation of the Standing Orders. MR. NEARY: We have a precedent. MR. SPEAKER: We already have a precedent? Well, therefore I can tell the hon. member he has only twenty minutes in the debate on a private member's motion.

Now we have two precedents. The hon. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Okay, Mr. Speaker. I am surprised that the President of the Privy Council (Mr. Marshall) got up and made a few sarcastic remarks and took off like a house on fire. However, if he had the stomach and the gall to come back and listen, maybe I could put him back in his place. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. WARREN: Mr.

Speaker, in October, 1977, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, the government of the day, which at that time was led by the former administration - and I am not allowed to open my mouth about a former administration - submitted the Labrador Development proposal for submission to the Government of Canada. Now, Mr. Speaker, that is what is referred to down in Labrador as (inaudible). Now, Mr. Speaker, in that proposal there was some $19.9 million for resource and economic development, there was $35 million for social and 1282 ... j •. I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 451 NM - 1 MR. WARREN: There were $30 million for social and community developments,and there was $130 million for transportation and communications. Now, Mr. Speaker, you have a grand total of $176,250,000. So ~aturally, Mr. Speaker, when this went to the federal counterpart,who at the time by the way was a Liberal Government in Ottawa four years ago, and naturally they said, "Look, you are asking for too much•Go back and amend it." So, Mr.

Speaker, the government of the day, the former administration, the first thing they decided to do ~ras completely eliminate educatio~- education was completely cut out automatically, some $14 million for education. They cut out community legal services, another $2 million. They cut out tourist and recreational facilities, another $3 million. They cut out the forestry allottrnent, another $3 million, because they said under the new forest agreement it will cover the whole Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Now, Mr.

Speaker, in transportation alone from this original proposal there was some ~50 million taken out, some $50 million taken out, and it was put into a new concept - one is with the airstrips and the other is con­ cerning the Trans-Labrador Highway. Now, Mr. Speaker, in the original resolution it says, "Whereas the g'·overnment of the Province have a proposal before the federal government for a start on the Trans-Labrador Highway - " Now, Mr. Speaker, that is hearsay, that is completely hearsay.

The only proposal that nas gone into the federal government for the Trans-Labrador Highway is at the beginning when they said, "Look, we want a Trans-Labrador Highway." They did not use ,any specific figures or where it was going, any plans whatsoever. That is the only proposal that has gone into the federal government, Mr. Speaker, on a Trans-Labrador Highway. 1293 .. , ''I ..I ''I ''I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 451 NM - 2 MR. WARREN: Now, 1-l:r. Speaker, I want. to get to the crux of this whole debate. Las~ week, March lOth., I asked the Premier a few simple questions and he said;· 1Me11;' he said, " we do not negotiate figures." And other than the Premier, and maybe one or two of his colleagues, nobody knows if and what is in the proposals, whether they have gone to the federal government, or whether the federal government came back to them. Now, Mr. Speaker, what I am saying is that it is not all the federal government's fault. It is not all the federal government's fault. SOME HON.

MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. WARREN: This government is just as much to blame as the federal government. So let us lay our cards where they are supposed to be laid=~ with the provincial government; after all it is a federal government. If we are going to knock the federal government,let us knock our own government first, because this is the government that is just as much at fault as the federal government. MR. FLIGHT: MR. WARREN: MR. NEARY: to say? MR. FLIGHT: have something to say? MR. WARREN: Moreso. Now, Mr. Speaker - Did the hon. member have something Does the Minister of Social Services In January 1979, Mr.

Speaker- ~~ose dates are very important--in January 1979rthe Province went back to the federal government again and they said, "Look, here is what we want in the new Labrador DREE agreement." Now they came up with a figure somewhere in the vicinity of roughly around $50 million. Now the figure - I do not know. In fact I would say there is hardly anyone in the hon. House who knows, not even the Premier and two or three of his colleagues. But they came up with a figure somewhere in the vicinity of $50,000. 'I 2 8 4 •. , ''I ''i

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 451 NM - 3 MR. WARREN : Now, that was in January 1979. Now as you know , Mr. Speaker, March 26th ., 1979, iust a month and a hal£ later, the Prime Minister of Canada dissolved Parliament, dissolved Parliament, March 2th., that was jus t a month and a half later, dissolve:i Parliament , and we know the co nsequences on May 22nd. We all know the consequences. Joe Clark got elected as the new Prime Minister of Canada. Now, ·1 2 9 5 •·t ''I ''I

'1arch 18, 1981 Tape No. 452 DW - 1 MR. G. WARREN: that was on ~~ay 22nd. with a ne~" minority qovernment. Now, Mr. Speaker, when Mr. Clark got elected, you know, automatically the people thought, 'Now, okay there is ·the answer for the Labrador DREE agree­ ments, here is our answer'. But this government, Mr. Speaker, - I want to tell the hon. House and tell the public that this government never so much as talked to the PC government in Ottawa for the seven months they were in there until January 1980. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! JI.'I..R. G. WARREN: Now, Mr.

Speaker. they never saw the Labrador DREE agreement, It was never even discussed until one year later. SOl'v!E HON .MEMBERS: Prove it, prove it! M..'R.. G. WARREN: Now,if the hon. members on that side of the House can prove it,lay some correspondence on the table of this House proving that thev went back with a new proposal to the Clark Government, as we will call it, the short Clark r~vernment. And there is not one thing, not one bit of evidence showing that this government was con­ cerned about Labrador. But they were more concerned about the synchrolift. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! .MR. G. WARREN: So, Mr.

Speaker, in January 1980 the Province goes back again. By this time, as we remember now, in December 1979,the Liberals and the New Democratic Party ganged up on the lousy government in Ottawa and voted them out on a non-confidence motion. Now, Mr. Speaker, that was in December. '12 8 6 '·I ''I " I .. ,

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 452 DW - 2 MR. G. i\TARREN: So this government played it very smart, you knm>T, 'Oh, we had better get our DREE agreement into Mr. Clark now before the federal election, you see'. So in January they go up, after the non- confidence motion, they go up to Mr. Clark and says, 'We have to get our proposal in there now'. MR. STIRLING: No, no! That cannot be true! MR. G. W&~REN: Oh, yes! Oh, yes! So they got their proposal into r1r. Clark's government when he was already out campaigning for the election and they said, PThis is out nroposal ~ Now Mr.

Clark could not do anything, therewasanother election on the go-and we know,thank God, what happened on February 18th. r-re "knm•r Mr. Clark was kicked out of office where he deserved to be, shoul~ be,and the Liberals took power in Ottawa. Since then, Mr. Speaker, this government has said, 'Well, boy the jumpin' dyin', we had better get some DREE agreements signed for Labrador'. All of a sudden it was- from that dav onward- it was one year before that there was no talk at all with the PC's in Ottawa but since Mr. Trudeau won on Pebruary l8th.,'Now ,we had better get our DREE agreements signed'. So, Mr.

Speaker, it is all a bluff. It is all a bluff by this government saying they are all ready for negotiations and by the federal government saying they are all ready for negotiations. MR. T. HICKEY: (Inaudible) . MR. G. WARREN: Nould the rilinister of Social Services (Mr. Fickev) like to sav sn~ethinrr? I hear hiM shouting over there. Jf vou '''ant to sav something I will yield. MR. NEARY: Does the minister have something to say? AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) . MR. NEARY: Well he has not made any speeches in the last four or five (inaudible) does he want to say something now? ·1 2 8 7 .. , .. ,

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 452 Dl'7 - 3 JII!.R. G. T'I/ARREN : Now, .Mr. Speaker, if I thought for one minute that this government was paying the same kind of service to Labrador as they are paying to St. John's, as they are paying to the synchrolift in St. John's, Mr. Speaker, I would definitely support the resolution from the beginning. I would support this resolution from the beginning, Mr. Speaker. Now, Mr. Speaker, let us look at another aspect of it. In the present format there is approximately, as I said earlier, $50 million.

Now I want to reveal some further information, that in January 1981 there were negotiations between the provinc5ill rrovernment and the federal government on hm..r much money would be allotted for the differenct aspects of the DREE agreement. So it was agreed in these dis­ cussions that the Straits road has to be a ninety/ten settlement, the Straits road has to go ahead, that is a must. Now surely goodness this government must know that there is only so much money in that DREE agree­ ment, so now what are we going to do? What are we going to do? Well, naturally we have to start cutting out, .Mr. Speaker.

Now, what are we going to cut out? We do not know, we do not know what is going to be cut out. But, Mr. Speaker, I will tell you one thing 1 since th.e last two and a half years the people on the Labrador coast 1 and Labrador in general, are sick and tired, plain sick and tired of the provincial and the federal governmentsplaying 1298 ''I " I ''I ' 'I .. ,

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 453 EL- 1 MR. WARREN: cheap political football with their lives and that is what both governments are doing, playing cheap political football and in particular this government. MR. BARRY: (Inaudible) compliment ' you. r-1R. WARREN: Now, Mr. Speaker - oh, yes as a matter of fact, if you read the resolution, you will say that I am saying it is both governments. HR. THOMS: Get him to support the resolution. MR. WARREN: So, Mr. Speaker, now, Mr.

Speaker, practically every three months, every three months for the past two or three years either the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development(J. Goudie) or the Premier or sometimes the Minister of Mines and Energy (L. Barry) or some Federal minister or the member for • Eagle River (E. Hiscock) or myself, now that is five or six individuals 1 have been sa~ing to the people in Labrador the DREE Agreement will soon be signed. Now, this is what the people in Labrador have been listening to from politicians for the last two and a half years, the DREE agreement will soon be signed.

If we go back, we can find state- ments that the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development made over a year ago. And we find statements that Mr. Rompkey made over a year ago. We find statements that the Premier made almost two years ago. So, Mr. Speaker, the people are sick and tired because all we are doing is playing political football with their lives. Now, Mr. Speaker, if this is going to continue- and we have to have the Straits road- what I am going to do, because there is so much confrontation, because . there is so much confrontation between this government and the 1289 't ''i

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 453 EL - 2 MR. WARREN: government in Ottawa, I am going to recommend to the DepaLtment of Fisheries that they take out the whole shot of the Fisheries component in that agree­ ment and the Federal Government will administer it themselves. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WARREN: By doing that, Mr. Speaker, we will get rid of the Minister of Fisheries (J. Morgan) playing politics with anything that he has. So, Mr.

Speaker, that is what I am going to recommend,that the whole $15 million or $20 million that is in the DREE Agreement for the fisheries along the Labrador coast 1be taken out completely and let the money stay in. there for the straits road and for other necessities and let the federal department administer its own programmes for the fisheries because if we do not do that I· SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

WARREN: -I will tell the hon. members, 1f we do not do that, my friend,the people on the Labrador Coast will be the same as they were the last two years, with pol­ iticians playing political football with their lives and this is what is wrong with · this government. This with this government. is what is wrong And that is why, Mr. Speaker, I am going to recommend publicly that the fisheries component, in the Labrador DREE Agreement be taken out. MR. BARRY: Why do you not take out the roads agreement? MR. WARREN: l>ffi • BARRY : component as well? Now, Mr. Speaker, - Why do you not take out the roads MR.

WARREN: Hell, if you want to talk about roads- if your government ari:d you as a member 'i~Duld go down to St. Mary's- the Capes and see ~hat kUrlsof reads those people have to drive on, then you would not talk about roads, would you? MR. BARRY: (Inaudible). '13 0 0 .. ''I .. , ''t

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 453 EL - 3 MR. WARREN: Do not open your mout~ too loud, please. SOME HON. t1EMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. BARRY: Are you saying that the member is not doing his job? ~m. WARREN: No, I am saying that your government is not doing anything, that is what I am saying. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear , hear. ! MR. NEARY: That is the boy, 'Garfield; heave it out of you. MR. WARREN: Now, Mr. Speaker, I would suggest, as I suggested before, that some hon.

Cabinet Ministers should go down along the Labrador coast some of those times and see what kind of fishing facilities that this government owns~ - not the federal government- that this government owns. It is not fit to split a codfish in, Mr. Speaker. And this govern- ment is concerned about it? So, how can you have quality fish when this Provincial Government is concerned abouthaving the plants there by name only? Now, Mr. Speaker, why a select comm­ ittee . Why I am asking for a select committee is that four or five m~nbers of this hon.

House could sit down with repres­ entatives of both the Provincial and the Federal Governments and see what is holding up the DREE agreement. NOW, that is not too much to ask. What is holding it up? The Provincial Government is saying the Federal Government is at fault. ·1 3 (J 1 -' ··, ..,

March 18, 1981 Tape 454 EC - 1 MR. WARREN: Maybe they are right. And I w"ill assure ycu today that if they are right the federal government is holding up these DREE agreements, I will probably go and fight the federal government as well as I am fighting thisgovernment. I will do the same thing if they are the ones who are 'holding it up SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. WARREN: . DR. COLLINS: MR. WARREN: Hear, hear! Now, how do we know? Will you resign? I did not say I would resign. Will you resign because of the people who are still on strike over there at the Trades College? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR.

WARREN: Why did not the minister resign today? If I were involved like the Minister of Labour (1-l.r. Dinn) was I would resign,and the l-l.inister of TranE.portation (Mr • c. Bre'f:'

E) Mr. Speaker, you should be ashamed that you are a member of the Treasury Board and see people living on $148 a we.ek. You should be ashamed, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WARREN: So, Mr. Speaker, that· is why I am supporting a Select Co~mittee, so that members of this House of Assembly can go and talk to negotiators on the federal and provincial levels and find out what is going wrong with those agreements, what is going wrong with them - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. WARREN: - and then come back in sixty days and lay it upon the table of this' House.

And then we will know for sure who is at fault - AN HON. MEMBER: MR. WARREN: government and at fault. Right. - and then whoever is at fault this all this House can really blast whoever is ·1 3 0 2 '·I '' I .. , •• I " I

March 18, 1981 Tape 454 EC - 2 SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Butt): Order, please! AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. WARREN: Do you know? Are you sure? Are you absolutely sure? Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that the minister look in the mirror more often and he will know who is at fault. And to the hon. the Minister of Fisheries (Mr.

Morgan) who has been so opposite to the federal fisheries policy, I will repeat what I just said a few minutes ago, that I am going to recommend that this Coastal Labrador DREE agreement, the fishery will come out of it altogether and be a new set-up that will be administered by the federal government. At least then we will not have fishing facilities along the Labrador Coast that are unfit to spread and cure fish in. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: Now, this is where the problem is, Mr. Speaker. The provincial government at the present time have a list that long of discrepancies with the plants. SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: So that is your attitude. Now, the attitude, Mr. Speaker - there you sP.e a minister of the Crown - 'Oh, we will close the plants. Because we own them we will close them! That is the kind of minister, Mr. Speaker, that people have in the fisheries - 'We will close the plants. We will close them . down.' Mr. Speaker, the federal government can manage the fisheries ten times better than the minister ever could try. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. WARREN: So with that in mind, Mr. Speaker, I wish to advise the hon. House that I will be advocating "13 0 3 'I '•I .

March 18, 1981 Tape 454 EC - 3 MR. WARREN: a Select Committee and I believe that once we can come up with enough evidence from both negotiating teams, the federal and the provincial, and find out really the cr,ux of the whole problem, who is at fault, then I believe this House should go on record and blast whichever government is at fault. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WARREN: . And, Mr. Speaker, I recommend that at least this amendment to the Resolution should go ahead to show this government, really, to put their· h~ and souls where their mouths are sometimes, because, Mr.

Speaker, they are showing a lqt of talk but very little action. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. GOUDIE: MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : Thank you. Hear, hear! Mr. Speaker. The hon. the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! MR. GOUDIE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to stand in support today of the resolution as introduced by my colleague, the member for Menihek (Mr. Walsh) and to have a_--· SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. GOUDIE: - few comments on the amendment as put forth by the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr.

Warren). The concept, the idea, justification for funding of a Trans-Labrador highway or the completion of the Trans-Canada Highway, whichever way one wishes to address it, has been ongoing here in,this hon. House, I know, for several years now. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! ·1 3 0 I+ '"I " I ' 'I

March 18, 1981 MR . N. DOYLE: wrong with that crowd? man is saying, boy? SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Butt): MR. GOUDIE: foul;' years ago - Tape No. 454 GS - 4 Order, Mr. Speaker • What is Why do you not listen to what the Oh, oh~ Order, please! As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The han. the Minister of Rural, Agricultural and Northern Development has the floor. I would ask hon. members to allow him to continue. The hon. the Minister. MR. GOUDIE; Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was sugqesting while there was an exchange of information going on here across the floor that four years ago I stood in this han. ., 3 0 5 ,, .., ''I

March 18, 1981 Tape 455 PK - 1 MR.

GOUDIE: House I just wanted to suggest, by the way, for the information of my colleague opposite, the gentleman who just took his seat, that this is not a new issue, at least in the House of Assembly 1 yet,it is not, and it has not been with the Provincial Government for some time, in that four years ago, when I was sitting in the private benches here,I rose one day to addre~s this very topicandmade the offer to any hon. member of the House of Assembly that if they could prove to me in some concrete way a system of naving roads built 'in Labrador or in any other part of the Province, but for my interest's sake in Labrador, that I would be willing to buy lunch for that hon. person for the remainder of that particular fiscal year.

I might add, that I never did ~ave the chance to spend that money because - MR. STIRLING: (Inaudible) . MR. GOUDIE: Pardon? MR. STIRLING: You cannot now. MR. GOUDIE: Well,I found out how to get the road built. It is just the question of getting the two levels of government together to sign these agreements that we are talking about. MR. STIRLING: MR. GOUDIE: amendment. MR. STIRLING: MR. GOUDIE: Are you supporting the amendment? No I am not supporting the You are not supporting the amendment? No,and I will explain why in just a few minutes time. I do not think it is necessary. AN HON. MEMBER: Pardon? MR.

GOUDIE: I do not think it is necessary to have a Select Committee of the House to sit down over a sixty day period and talk to the Premier, as Intergovernmental Affairs Minister 1 and to the appropriate ministry in Ottawa ·1 3 G 6 ''I .. ! ' 't ..

March 18, 1981 Tape 455 PK - 2 MR. GOUDIE: to find out who has been holding up this agreement. I know who has been holding up the agreement. The agreement has been sent in for months, if not years, along with a number of other agreements. The Coastal Labrador agreement is referred to in both the main motion and in the han. member's amendment. That has been there for, I think, something like three years now. I believe it started off at $130 million as a proposed agreement, Mr. Speaker-MR. STIRLING: (Inaudible) . MR. GOUDIE: - and it has ended up to be considerably less than that.

And if we are to take what the Premier has stated both in this hon. House, publicly around the Cabinet table or around the caucus table,that he ~s leader of this administration is ready to sign the agreernent,then I would suggest that it is the federal government who is at fault. They have not indicated any interest, Mr. Speaker, up until this point in time, certainly until the last few months or so,in signing any of the agreements as they relate to Labrador.

I personally have been involved not in the Coastal Labrador agreement, I had not been personally involved in that one, but I have been involved in another agreement, another agreement 1 by the way 1 which will inject $35 million into the hon. member for Torngat Mountains' (Mr. Warren) district over the next five years. That agreement has been delayed now for a full year beyond its implementation. MR. NEARY: Why? Why? MR. -wARREN: Because the government (inaudible) ;:onne RiveJ: MR. GOUDIE: Becuase of what? MR. NEARY: Why is it delayed? 1 3 0 7 .. ,

March 18, 1981 MR. GOUDIE: said. MR. WARREN: MR. GOUDIE: role - MR. WARREN: MR. GOUDIE: agreement. MR. NEARY: MR. GOUDIE: Tape 455 PK - 3 I did not hear what the hon. gentleman Conne River. Conne River. Conne River has been playing a leading Right on. - in delaying the implementation of this How is it delayed? But the other relevant point is - I will address the hon. member for LaPoile's (~1r. Neary) comment in just a second. There are two proposed agreements under this new one as opposed to the one which has been in place up until 1979.

The two proposed agreements should have been in place effective 1 April, 1980. They have not been in place. Interim funding was extended for eleve~ months of the year,up until the end of February this year,to carry on with some of the regular programmes, but the $500,000 a year additional,which would be included in the two agreements, one for Conne River, one for Labrador-we have not been able to implement these programmes because the agreements have been signed up. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. GOUDIE: have been held up. MR. NEARY: MR. GOUDIE: MR. NEARY: MR. GOUDIE: MR.

NEARY: The agreements - I beg your pardon, the agreements Is that a separate agreement? There are two agreements. Has the original been drawn up? There is one for Conne River - (Inaudible) renewal (inaudible) . ·1 3 0 B

March 18, 1981 Tape 455 PK - 4 MR. GOUDIE: There are two proposed agreements now- one for Conne River which will involve approximately $5 million of funds for five years. Another agreement for L~brador which will involve approximately $35 million for seven communities now. MR. NEARY: Well,I do not understand how Conne River is holding it up. MR. GOUDIE: · Well 1 I have made the presentation to Mr. John Munro in Ottawa that the Labrador communities have all agreed to go ahead with the proposed agreement as it was outlined. MR. NEARY: All right. MR.

GOUDIE: I suggested that that agreement should be signed and we will go ahead with it. MR. NEARY: Right. MR. GOUDIE: If Conne River wants to carry on and debate the items in their proposed agreement,they should be free to do so. MR. NEARY: Right. MR. GOUDIE: But he would not agree to that. MR. NEARY: He what? MR. GOUDIE: He would not agree with it. MR. NEARY: Munro 1 would not agree with it? MR. GOUDIE: That is right. He wants both agreements signed at the same time. MR. FLIGHT: So he should. MR. GOUDIE: So the whole situation has been hamstrung up until now. I understand now that - MR.NEARY: Well, that is wrong.

He should sign that agreement for Labrador. MR. GOUDIE: Of course, he should sign the agreement but that is the way it has been going on for the last year. Although I understand now that Mr.Munro is in 'I 3 0 9 •• I ' '!

March 18, 1981 Tape 455 PK - 5 MR. GOUDIE: a position to communicate officially the position of h.is government to this government indicating that the agreements can be signed, and hopefu~ly that will be done to take advantage of the new fiscal year beginning the 1 April. But anyway, Mr. Speaker, back to the main resolution and to the amendment as introduced by the hon. member .for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren). "' '131 0 ., •;

March 18, 1981, Tape 456, Page 1 -- apb MR. GOUDIE: Talking about a Trans-Labrador Highway, that is the one in which I have a great deal of interest right now, and I say that selfishly because it relates to my district. I also have an interest in the proposed coastal Labrador DREE agreement because if it goes ahead the way it was recommended, then most areas of Labrador will be affected by that agreement in terms of funding programmes. But the one that I am concerned with is the proposed Trans­ Labrador Highway agreement.

That would complete a link from either Esker or Churchill Falls, depending on what engineers have to say, the experts, with Wabush Labrador City, and that in turn is being connected to Baie Comeau, through the efforts of the Province of Quebec,building some kind of a road system from Baie Comeau up to Schefferville,which is already connected by a highway to Labrador City - Wabush, thereby completing a link all across Labrador.

Now, you want to talk about funds for developing a highway system in Labrador, and I think that highway system should be completed, I do not agree that the Trans-Canada Highway is yet completed. We have, as I said in other remarks in the hon. House, suggested that there is a road across an Island, but, in my opinion, that does not complete the Trans-Canada Highway in our Province because there is a

section of the Province, two and a half times the size of the Island, North of here, which has no road system other than within the communities themselves and a tote road running from Happy Valley - Goose Bay to Churchill Falls, which is completely' inadequate, it is unsafe 'in many areas. All we have been getting in terms of funding, and in these remarks I will criticize the provincial government as well, if that is what hon. members opposite like to see happen. I have criticized my 1 311 ''I "'I '·I ' 'I

March 18, 1981, Tape 456, Page 2 -- apb MR. GOUDIE: colleagues around the Cabinet table, in caucus, and in other areas. We should be getting more funding either from the provincial government or a cost shared,prograrnrne, either one, it does not matter to me, my main interest is getting the

section of road from the Happy Valley - Goose Bay area to Churchill Falls upgraded and in a suitable condition for people to travel. Just as an example of why we should have that, the Churchill Falls Labrador Corporation, now a part of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro, offers a travel assistance programme to its employees to allow them to enjoy a holiday, particularly during the Summer months. Traditionally the residents of Churchill Falls have travelled by aircraft to some other point in the Province,on the Island part of the Province,of Newfoundland and Labrador.

In the last couple of years, because there is a good ferry system now between Lewisporte and Happy Valley - Goose Bay, these employees have elected to use this travel assistance programme to take their vehicles and their families across the 200 mile stretch of road, from Churchill Falls to Happy Valley - Goose Bay, thereby utilizing the ferry service which takes, by the way, Mr. Speaker, only thirty-six hours from Happy Valley Goose Bay to Lewisporte.

And as Your Honour will realize, having been a resident of Labrador for most of your younger days, this is quite an advance over the transportation system we had in place when Your Honour was a resident of Happy Valley - Goose Bay. But in any event,more people in Labrador City - Wabush, in Churchill Falls, are looking to travelling overland to take advantage of this ferry service than they are to travelling by air, and the reasons are very obvious. Three years ago I carne from Happy Valley to Lewisporte, four members in my family, a '13 .,2 .. , . '·I

March 18, 1981, Tape 456, Page 3 -- apb MR. GOUDIE: pickup truck, and travelled round trip for $320. And I would suggest - my colleague, the member for Menihek (Mr. Walsh), is not in the House now, b~t I would suggest that a round trip ticket from Wabush to St. John's for one person is in excess of that amount of money. It is three hundred and fifty-so~ething dollars for one person to get from Wabush to.St. John's and return. And you are talking of families living in these communities of two, three, five, eight, even ten members in the family.

So one can imagine how expensive it is for people to not just go on a holiday but come down and visit, perhaps, the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary). I do not know if he has any relatives in Wabush - Labrador City, or Churchill Falls or not. MR. NEARY: (.Inaudible) • MR. GOUDIE: But if he does, then I would assume she has some desire somewhere along the way to come down and it is costing her a fortune to do it. MR. THOMS: $2200 to get out of there. MR. GOUDIE: It would cost at least That is one of the social effects, Mr. Speaker, of not having a Trans-Labrador Highway system in place.

If you want to look at the economic effects of not having such a highway ·1 3 ·j 3 ''I ' I ''I ' ·I .. •• I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 457 SD - 1 MR. GOUDIE: in place. My colleague, the Minister of Development (Mr.

Windsor), within the last couple of weeks made statements publicly that with the probe of the motor vesselArcticinto the Western end of Lake Melville, then all kinds of ·possibilities now surface for industrial development in the Western Lake Melville area of Lab~ador bringing on stream possibilities for aluminum smelting, further exploration and use of the forest resources that we have, perhaps the fisheries can play some kind of a role in relation to an operation being set up or some kind of facility being set up in the Happy Valley/Goose Bay area to take advantage of these new possibilities for transportation.

But in any event, once this kind of a system comes in place,where there is year round shipping in and out of Lake Melville, th .e central part of Labrador, then there is going to have to be an automatic step to construct a suitable Trans-Labrador Highway or a railway system - I do not know which one, whichever is the most practical and economical to put in place 1 I would suggest. But in any event, it is badly needed.

I fully support the amendm~t 1 the original motion as put by my colleague for Menihek. (Mr. walsh)_~ I do not think there is any significant change in the amendment as put forth by the hon. member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) other than the latter part of his proposed amendment which deals with a Select Committee of the House. I do not think that is necessary.

I am fully satisfied and I think other hon. members of the H.ouse,on this side of the ffouse at least, to Your H.onour 1 s left, are aware of where the problem is, why these agreements have not been signed, It has been the lack of political will, if you will, in Ottawa to sign the agreements and have these funding programmes put in place. We are ready to go, the Premier has said it dozens of times, I have heard him say it, to sign any and all of the agreements 'I 3 ·14 .. , ''I ''I .. ,

March 18,1981 Tape No. 457 SD - 2 MR. GOUDIE: put forward to Ottawa by this government over the last two and three years. I take faith in that statement and I suggest that the responsibility for the delay of all of these agreements as they relate to the development o~ Labrador,be it transportation or other developments,rests in the lap of the federal government and in that regard I support the motion as put by my colleague the member for Menihek (Mr. Walsh). SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (Butt): ' MR. NEARY: Hear, hear. The hon. member for LaPoile. Mr.

Speaker, first of all I want to say that we, on 'this side of the House, have no problem at all in supporting the principle of a Trans Labrador Highway. As a matter of fact, Mr. Speaker, the idea is not original, the idea started with the Smallwood administration back at the time that the Churchill Falls construction was going ahead and all the other - the mines in Western Labrador.

At the time all these developments of our natural resources in Labrador weretaking place, the government at that time felt that it was imperative, it was a matter of life and death, for Labrador either to have a Trans Labrador Railway or a Trans Labrador Highway. We would prefer to see a Trans Labrador Highway but if that is not economically feasible, Mr. Speaker, then both governments might consider a Trans Labrador Railway and use the electricity developed in Labrador to operate the railway.

All you need do to build a Trans Labrador Railway is to put down the third line and have the electricity that is developed in Churchill Falls or in the Lower Churchill operate that railway across labrador. That may be the easiest way out of the dilemma. as far as transportation in Labrador is: concerned, Mr. Speaker, So we have no problem at all in supporting the idea of a Trans Labrador Highway. What we do have problems with, Mr, Speaker, is the ~THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED~ in this ., J 'j 5 'I ··, .

March 18 , 1981 Tape No. 457 so - 3 MR. NEARY: petition, 'That this hon. House urge the fed eral government to live up to its responsibilities and sign these agreements at the earliest possible opportunity'. Now, Mr . Speaker, the member who moved this Private Merilbers• Resolution did not indicate to the liouse if indeed agreements were being negotiated. The gentleman who introduced the Private Members' Resolution obviously did not take any time at all to do his homework, to do any research on this matter . The member did not tell us whether a survey had been done for the road from Happy Valley to Labrador City and Wabush, did not 1 J "I 6 •··. .. •• 1

Harch 18, 1981 Tape No. 458 IB-1 MR. NEARY: indicate whether the road has actually been laid out, whether the survey has been done, did not indicate the cost of a road from Happy Valley-Goose Bay to Labrador West, did not tell us what it was going to cost. It did not tell us whether or not the responsibility for building this road was provincial or federal. And I would submit that it is a provincial responsibility. It did not tell us the cost, how much it is going to cost and how much the provincial government is prepared to put up for that Trans-Lar~~dor highway. No~ these are all very important questions.

The highway first of all - let us face the facts, Mr . Speaker, just for any of the members who may not know,as some members do not seem to know their responsibilities as Cabinet Ministers, that all roads in this Province are a provincial responsibility. All roads in this Province are a provincial responsibility. MR. HANCOCK: They do not understand that, I am sure. MR. NEARY: Well, maybe I will have to repeat it again for the sake of those who are so deaf that they may not hear. Every road, every highway in Newfoundland is a provincial responsibility. And yet, Mr. Speaker, let us see what this resolution says.

Mr. Speaker, just listen to what it says: That the hon. House urge the Federal Go ~ ernment to live up to its responsibilities. What responsibility? Anyway, Mr. Speaker, I do not want to qet sidetracked on that. MR. HANCOCK: A spell of silence is cast over the members of the government. MR. NEARY: Yes,I know,because it is indefensible. The argument, the point that I make is indefensible. But, Mr. Speaker, this motion, the resolution and the amendment made by my colleague,raises some very interesting questions, raises some very, very good points that should be elaborated upon.

And the first question that I want to put to the government ·1 J ·1 7 '1

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 458 IB-2 MR. NEARY: in connection with this resolution is what negotiations is the hon. member talking about, what negotiations? There are no negotiations. There have not been any realistic negotiations. Mr. Speaker, the hon. Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett) in this Province has submitted to the Government of Canada a whole raft, a whole list of proposals, a ~hole list, ranging from making St. John's an international airport 1 to upgrading the port facilities in Corner Brook ana St.

John's 1to upgrading and improving the Trans-Canada Highway, CN, the coastal boat service, airports in Newfoundland, Trans-Labrador Highway, containerization. In Ottawa they refer to it as Charlie Brett's wish list. MR. WARREN: What? MR. NEARY: Wish list, that is what it is called in Ottawa, Charlie Brett's wish list, wish list. AN HON. MEMBER: It may now be a petition list. MR. NEARY: A whole raft of items, items that are put down merely for discussion, put down for - I am sorry the nipper is not in the House to hear this - these items are put down, Mr. Speaker, merely for discussion purposes. The hon.

Minister of Transportation knows that and next week when Mr. Pepin arrives in this Province , the minister and Mr. Pepin will sit down and they will try to arrive at transportation priorities in this Province. So there are no negotiations. These are merely discussion papers, items for discussion, a wish list. MR. HANCOCK: A list you would send to Sants Claus, 'Steve'. MR. NEARY: Pardon? MR. HANCOCK: It is like a list you would send to Santa Claus. MR. NEARY: That is right, Mr. Speaker, it is like a list that a little boy or a little girl would send to "13 '18 ... \ I ' •' ''t ''j ''I ''I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 458 IB-3 1'-"..R . NEARY: Santa to ask f·or a whole lot of s:!;uff for Christmas hoping that they might get half, they might get a few items off that list. And that is the way the minister's list · is . I have seen the list. I had it here in the House yesterday and held it up for members to see . It is a wish list . MR. HANCOCK: Half the major roads were not includecj. . MR. NEARY: Pardon? MR. HANCOCK : Half the major roads around the Province were not even included. MR. NEARY: No, half the major roads around the Province are not included. The Trans - Labrador highway is just mentioned incidentally on that list , 1 3 ·1 9 '"1 ' I ' 'I

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 459 DW - 1 l"I..R. S. NEARY: one of the itens, one of the items on the list. MR. BRETT: No wonder they are confused up there. Everything I send up there (inaudible). MR. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, there are not too many things that the hon. gentleman sends up to Ottawa. The hon. gentleman has had no dialogue with Ottawa over a Trans-I,a~- rador Hiqhway, no discussion, no liaison, no dialogue, he merelv submitted his wish list. MR. TULK: He admitted it was right, 'steve: MR. S. NEARY: Well, it is right, it is down in my office .' I had here in the House yesterday. And so, Mr.

Speaker, it is misleading and false to say that the Govern­ ment of Canada should live up to its responsibilities and sign an agreement. How in the name of heaven are they going to sign an agreement when the negotiations have not even taken place? MR. S. NEARY: I mean the hon. member for Burgee - Bav d' Esl:)oir (Mr. Andrews) kno111s the difference of that. How can they sign an agreement? The agreement has not even been discussed. What will be discussed next week in this Province when Mr. Pepin arrives here will be the question of transportation priorities in this Province. AN HON.

MEMBER: What about our coastal boats? MR. S. NEARY: Your coastal boat service is going to get the axe. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) federal government Crown corporations. )VIR. S. NEARY: Ah, well, Mr. Speaker, my hon. · friend heard what I had to sav about that matter yesterday and I am afraid today - and the hon. M.inister of Transporta­ tion (Mr. Brett) may take a' little comfort in this - that I am afraid I am in hot water with some of the big shots up in Ottawa. I am in hot water,so I am told today, long distance. I am in hot water because I released information ·1 3 2 0 ''I ''I .. ,

March 18, 1981 Tape No. 459 mv- 2 MR. S. NEARY: Prematurely. Because I tried to save hundreds and thousands of jobs in this Provine~ And because I tried to save communities from economic ruin, ,I am in hot water in Ottawa. As if I cared if I am in hot water with Ottawa! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. s. NEARY: When Ottawa needs to be nailed, Mr. Speaker, I will nail them. But I will not go out like this government with both guns blazing, shooting from the hip or from the lip at every OP?Ortunity. M