Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Members' Statements — 25 March 2004 (45th General Assembly, 1st Session, Vol. XLV No. 5)
2004-03-25
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
March 25, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 5
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!
Today we would like to welcome to the House of Assembly, twenty Grade 8 and
Grade 9 students from Lakecrest - St. John's Independent School, with their
Principal, Mr. Ron Pellerin, their teacher Ms Lois Hoegg, and their chaperone Ms
Carolyn Cutt.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: At this time, I would like to rule on a point of order
raised yesterday by the Government House Leader.
The proceedings of this House are based on the long-standing tradition of
respect for the integrity of all members. Thus the use of offensive, provocative
or threatening language is strictly forbidden. Any member who feels aggrieved by
a remark may bring the matter to the attention of the Speaker. In dealing with
unparliamentary language, the Speaker takes into account the actual words
spoken, including the tone, the manner and intention of the member speaking, the
person to whom the words were directed, the degree of provocation, if any, and
finally, if the words spoken caused disorder in the House.
Yesterday, in the House, the hon. the Government House Leader raised a point
of order about a comment made by the Member for Grand Bank. Having reviewed
Hansard, the Chair can confirm that in reference to a decision by the Premier to
answer questions directed to the Ministry, the Member for Grand Bank shouted
across the House, "What a way to treat a woman!"
The Speaker has reviewed the remarks in the House by members who spoke to the
point of order and has held discussions with both the Member for Grand Bank and
the Minister of Government Services. There can be no doubt that the minister was
disappointed in the comment and regrets that a decision by the Premier to
exercise his parliamentary right to answer any question directed to the
government in Question Period was taken by an hon. member to be an affront to
her gender. On the other hand, my discussions with the Member for Grand Bank
lead me to conclude that there was no intention to speak disparagingly of the
minister.
In this instance, we have a classic case in which the words spoken may have
cause unintended distress and in the communication there is a substantive
variance between the intended communication and the message received.
The Speaker asks all hon. members to be always cognizant of the parliamentary
right of the Premier and the government to decide who answers questions or even
if an answer is offered at all and, while members have the right to comment on
the prerogative of the government to designate which member of the executive
responds to which question, all members should exercise caution in attributing
motives to those decisions.
This incident underscores the importance of balancing the right of members to
express themselves against the need to ensure that, even in the heat of debate,
we demonstrate respect for each other and avoid causing disorder in the House.
The Speaker rules that there is no point of order but he asks that members
consider carefully his comments and his cautions.
Thank you.
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: Today we have members' statements being made by the Member
for Gander, the Member for Torngat Mountains, the Member for St. John's North,
the Member for Twillingate & Fogo, the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's,
and the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
The hon. the Member for Gander.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to stand before
the House to bring attention to a matter which I feel should be of particular
pride not only to the District of Gander, but to every citizen of Newfoundland
and Labrador.
Early next month, April 6 to be precise, an awards ceremony will be held at
the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C., to honour the
six members of a Cormorant helicopter crew from 103 Search and Rescue Squadron
in Gander.
At considerable risk to their own lives, these brave men rescued sixteen
sailors from a badly listing deck of a stricken freighter Camilla , which
ran into trouble on January 23 of last year during a vicious winter storm almost
500 kilometres out in the North Atlantic. Conditions at the time were absolutely
horrendous, with winds seventy-five to ninety kilometres an hour and swells
peaking at twenty metres, testing the Cormorant to the very limits of, and
possibly beyond, its operational capabilities.
Mr. Speaker, few, if any of us, in this House will ever experience the sort
of life and death situations which the members of 103 Search and Rescue deal
with almost on a daily basis.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time has expired.
MR. O'BRIEN: With leave to conclude?
MR. SPEAKER: By leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. O'BRIEN: On that day in January of 2003, these six men,
demonstrating tremendous courage and a high degree of professionalism, saved
sixteen souls from a miserable death at sea.
Mr. Speaker, at this time I would ask the members of the House to join me in
extending congratulations and thanks on behalf of the entire Province to Master
Corporal Rob Vidito, Captain Andrew Mercer, Major Gilbert Thibault, Sergeant
Emilio de Chantal, Sergeant Dave Cooper and Master Corporal Scott Elliston.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, each year the Labrador Inuit Youth Division of the Labrador
Inuit Association holds their Annual Youth Conference on the Coast of Labrador.
This year it was held in the community of Hopedale from March 11-17. There were
close to seventy delegates from the North Coast and the upper Lake Melville
attending.
Mr. Speaker, it is a time when the youth get together to talk of their hopes,
their dreams and their goals. This year there were two very important issues
discussed. One was the ratification vote, which we all know on May 26 the Inuit
of Labrador will vote to ratify the agreement that they signed with both the
Province and the federal government.
They also talked of self-government. Mr. Speaker, should the ratification
vote go through self-government will take place on the North Coast of Labrador
in a few years, and the jobs that will be available to our young people will be
many.
Mr. Speaker, I want to congratulate the youth on the North Coast of Labrador
and the upper Lake Melville area, the organizers, and I am sure -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time has expired.
MR. ANDERSEN: By leave, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. ANDERSEN: Mr. Speaker, I am sure that when the bell rings they will
answer the call to build a bright future and be leaders on the North Coast of
Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. RIDGLEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to congratulate Mrs. Elizabeth - Libby - Cunningham on being
named this year's recipient of the Grace Sparkes Woman of Distinction Award.
This award is presented annually to honour a woman who has demonstrated strength
of character and who has made an outstanding contribution to the community as
well as to political life in the Province.
In 1959, when there were relatively few female entrepreneurs, Libby
established her own business and has since served at both provincial and
Atlantic levels on her professional association. She has been a tireless
volunteer, giving her time at St. Luke's Home and is now serving her third
term as President of the Masonic Ladies' Auxiliary, where she has been a
member since 1978.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of the House to join me in extending hearty
congratulations to Libby Cunningham, this year's winner of the Grace Sparkes
Woman of Distinction Award.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to congratulate a local entrepreneur, Mr. Ches Penney, Chief
Executive Officer of Ocean Choice International, who yesterday purchased six
fish processing plants formerly owned by the Prince Edward Island Processor,
Polar Seafoods.
Mr. Penney, a native of Carbonear, like myself, his sister, the Member for
Grand Falls-Buchans, and the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace, has done
extremely well in the business sector of our Province.
As founder and owner of the Penney Group of Companies, Mr. Penney is involved
in construction, auto sales, real estate, marine transport, energy, energy
services and fish processing facilities. He was named as Atlantic Canada's top
entrepreneur at the Ernst & Young 2002 Entrepreneur of the Year awards.
Ocean Choice International, the company which just purchased Polar Seafoods
of Prince Edward Island, was formed in 2000. It manages several plants which
process: snow crab, northern shrimp, cod, red fish, turbot, and mussels. The
lobster operations which he purchased yesterday will fit nicely with his other
processing facilities.
Again, I would like to congratulate Mr. Penney and wish him every success in
this endeavour.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Today I would like to take the opportunity to pay tribute to an extra
ordinary lady, Mrs. Bridget Foley of Point Verde, Placentia, who was laid to
rest yesterday. Bridget was employed as a licensed practical nurse at the
Placentia Health Care Centre. She began her career almost forty years ago at the
old Placentia Cottage Hospital. The hundreds of people who filled the Sacred
Heart Church in Placentia yesterday, complete with an honour guard of her
co-workers capped off with an eloquent sermon by Rev. Father Jim Beresford, was
a true testament to the effect that Bridget had on so many people during her
many years as a health care provider in our area.
Mr. Speaker, Bridget Foley touched the lives of so many people in a way many
of us could only dream of.
From her husband Dennis, to her daughter Denise, she extended a helping hand
and a caring soul to all who needed one. My own mother who had nine children,
most of us who were born at the old Placentia Cottage Hospital, will refer to
Bridget as her guardian angel. Indeed, she was for so many others as well.
In describing Bridget's lifes vocation as a health care provider yesterday
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
MR. MANNING: By leave, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. MANNING: Father James Beresford put it best when he said, "When
work is done truly and out of love it does not matter how long or difficult the
hours are! It matters not if there is any gain or advantage to the worker. It is
done effectively, efficiently and effortlessly it ceases to be a chore. Work
done freely and lovingly becomes a pleasure and it brings its own rewards."
For Bridget Foley, work was never a chore or duty, it was a pleasant labour
of love!
Mr. Speaker, as an ambulance driver for several years, I enjoyed many a late
night a cup of tea and a Purity Cream Cracker with Bridget at the old Cottage
Hospital in Placentia. What I enjoyed most were her stories about her hometown
of Cuslett, on the Cape Shore. I have, as I am sure many others in the Placentia
& St. Mary's District, have shared many a laugh with Bridget.
When my own sister passed away in June of 2000 Bridget asked me, "Why
did somebody so good have to die so young?" I am sure many people are
asking that very same question about Bridget today.
Mr. Speaker, finding meaning in life is important to us all. Bridget Foley's
passing has caused many people to reflect on the real treasures that are truly
important in our lives and that is our families, our friends and our faith.
Bridget Foley was a loving wife, a mother, a professional health care
provider, who gave her life to the service of others. She invested love, respect
and meaning into her work each and every day. Many people, who are too numerous
to mention, are better off today because of Bridget Foley's presence in their
lives.
I would ask all Members of the House of Assembly to join with me today in
expressing our gratitude to the years of service Bridget provided to our
Province, and our deepest sympathy to Bridget's husband, Dennis, their
daughter Denise, their families and friends during this time of sorrow.
To conclude, I would once again like to quote Father Beresford as he
concluded his sermon yesterday. "May she rest eternally in the caring hands
of Christ, to be enshrined with her maker - who created Bridget and then threw
away the mould."
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Today the School Lunch Association is sponsoring their 7 th Annual
SKIP A LUNCH Campaign. It is held annually to raise awareness of the issue of
child poverty and its affects on children's education, and to raise funds in
support of it's school meal program offered in fifteen schools in the St. John's
area. People are asked to skip their lunch today and donate the amount they
would spend to the School Lunch Association.
I invite all hon. members to participate by sending a donation to the School
Lunch Association, or to support a school meal program in their district. Many
children in this Province skip lunch, not out of choice, but out of hardship. In
March, 37 per cent of families could not afford the modest price asked by the
School Lunch Association from those who can afford to pay.
Mr. Speaker, the need for a universal school meal program across the Province
is obvious when we look at the efforts of groups, such as the School Lunch
Association, who are having great difficulty supporting their program with
donations and a partial grant from government. This is in St. John's, where it
is much easier to get donations and corporate sponsorship. It should be obvious
to all -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
MR. HARRIS: By leave, Mr. Speaker?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. HARRIS: It should be obvious to all that for a school meal program to
be available to every student in the Province, not just the 15 per cent who now
receive it, government must take it on.
Congratulations to the School Lunch Association on the great work they have
been doing since 1989.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS WHALEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to inform members of this House of new consumer
protection information now available through my department.
In January, I attended the meeting of federal, provincial and territorial
ministers for consumer affairs. An area of particular concern at that meeting
was identity theft.
We all agreed on the importance of giving consumers the most reliable and
complete information on how to protect themselves from becoming a victim.
A consumer information kit has been developed for use in all provinces. I am
pleased to announced today that the information is now available on the
Government Services web site.
This kit builds on identity theft information already available on the web
site. A tip sheet was posted in December on how people can protect themselves
from this crime.
Mr. Speaker, stolen identities have been used to obtain loans and credit
cards. People can reduce the risk of identity theft by guarding personal and
financial information closely.
I encourage people to log on to our web site to learn how to protect
themselves against this crime, and how to know if they have become a victim. The
web address is www.gov.nl.ca/gs
Mr. Speaker, this department is making sure the people of the Province are
aware of the dangers of scams and other consumer issues. I am working with other
national consumer affairs ministers on areas of mutual concern. The ministers
will meet again in Quebec City in the fall.
A massive amount of work has been done to protect Canadians. I believe the
provinces working together is the right approach.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Very timely, Mr. Speaker, considering the Premier's
attempts at taking over the identities of some of his own ministers; very timely
indeed.
Mr. Speaker, I agree with the minister that identity theft is indeed a
serious and everyday problem. I support the minister in her efforts of keeping
the public updated and safe and informed as well. I ask her, though, to look at
other areas, and those are the credit card rates and the financial rates of
other financial transactions that the public are exposed to in the Province.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
There is certainly no end to the ways in which people who are out to do
illegal things can get access to people's identity and use it against them. It
is certainly timely, in the computer age, to do that, but there may be other
people who need to be aware of this outside of those who have computers, so
perhaps the Web site is not enough, Mr. Speaker. Maybe the minister would
consider other forms of informing the public about these matters. Perhaps today
is the day that you are doing that as well, but there should be other ways of
getting access to people who need this information to know more about how they
can be taken by people who are out to do criminal acts.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time has expired.
The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise this afternoon to inform this hon. House about a police officers
training program announced in the Speech from the Throne. This training
initiative provides a long-term strategy for the training and development of
police officers in the Province.
Through a partnership with Memorial University - Memorial University at St.
John's and Memorial University at Corner Brook - we will recruit, train and
introduce a total of seventy-five new police officers in the Royal Newfoundland
Constabulary over a three-year period.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, this recruitment level includes fifteen new
RNC positions in each of the three years, and the balance of ten officers per
year through attrition. The RNC will begin to introduce these new officers to
the force in 2005.
This program is in the final stages of development and will begin in the
upcoming fall or winter semester at Memorial University. This program will
include two semesters of academic training, supplemented by a practical work
term with the RNC. Recruits will pay regular tuition fees at Memorial
University.
The addition of forty-five police officers to the RNC will greatly increase
the ability of the force to deal with the law enforcement issues it encounters
on a daily basis. The new training program at Memorial University should also
significantly increase the pool of qualified candidates available to the police
force, thus ensuring its ability to deal with the increased number of
retirements that are anticipated in the coming years.
Mr. Speaker, the government is committed to the safety and security of
communities throughout Newfoundland and Labrador, and I am proud that this
government will enhance public safety by making sound investments in policing.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is indeed nice to see, and I thank the minister for an advance copy of his
statement today. It is certainly nice to see it, and although the colour on the
book may change in the Throne Speech, the commitments within are commitments
that were made by the previous Administration.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PARSONS: In fact, Mr. Speaker, I do believe, if you check last year's
Budget, the then Minister of Finance announced the funding for the first fifteen
new officers, and this member, who was then the minister, in fact, held the
meetings with Chief Deering and Deputy Chief Brown to commence the process of
having the training done here in our own Memorial University, where it ought to
be done.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PARSONS: So, I am very pleased to see that the minister is indeed
carrying through on this great initiative which adds to public safety in this
Province.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is expired.
MR. PARSONS: I look forward to the day when I can see this minister rise
in his place, Mr. Speaker, and say that he is going to give RNC officers equal
pay for equal work with the RCMP. Now, that is a commitment we would like to see
him deliver on.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am not going to argue over who gets credit for this; I am just glad it is
going to happen.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I have gotten lots of calls from my district
since this has been talked about last week, because there is a lot of interest
in people in the Province joining the RNC and I am glad to see that we are
taking this opportunity to train our own people to police our own people, but I
will say to the minister that this also presents a golden opportunity to correct
the gender imbalance that currently exists in the force today.
Mr. Speaker, I would also like to say that there are other needs that the RNC
have, such as their fleet of vehicles that we have all heard talked about in the
news lately. That needs to be addressed as well.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time has expired.
MR. COLLINS: By leave to clue up, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: By leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. COLLINS: As representing a district that is policed by the RNC, I can
certainly attest to the fact that their degree of skill, their policing methods,
are second to none in this country, and that they do a great job. It will be a
pleasure to see many more young people from our Province, trained in our own
Province, to police our own people.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: I am sorry; I did not recognize that the minister was
standing.
The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate Mr. Loyola Hearn, the Member of
Parliament for St. John's West -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: - on the successful passing of his private members' motion
on custodial management in the House of Commons last evening. Motion 136 calls
Nose and Tail of the Grand Banks and the Flemish Cap.
Mr. Hearn is to be commended for his efforts. He has worked tirelessly on the
issue of foreign overfishing, including his dedicated work with the Standing
Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. The Committee's members also deserve
acknowledgment, including Mr. Tom Wappel, the MP for Scarborough Southwest, who
chaired the March 2003 report that recommended custodial management. It is
encouraging to see such broad support in the House of Commons for action on
foreign overfishing.
Mr. Speaker, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador maintains that the
situation in the Northwest Atlantic is unacceptable. Reported fishery
infractions outside of the 200-mile limit have increased in recent years. Under
current Northwest Atlantic Fisheries Organization - or NAFO - rules, contracting
parties are the ones who enforce regulations and prosecute violations - or,
should I say, do not. This has repeatedly proven to be ineffective, because
certain countries blatantly disregard conservation measures and regulations.
These countries refuse to take action against vessels that fish in contravention
of the rules.
Mr. Speaker, our Province believes that Canada must investigate alternatives
to the current NAFO management regime. We maintain that custodial management is
a viable option to conserve our precious fishery resources. Furthermore, Mr.
Speaker, the federal government has other tools available to improve the
management and conservation of straddling stocks. One of these tools is the
United Nations Fisheries Agreement, or UNFA, which was recently ratified by the
European Union, which the federal government must be prepared to use.
Mr. Speaker, should a multilateral approach fail to meet provincial
expectations, the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador will continue to press
Canada to pursue alternatives such as custodial management. Therefore, it is
welcome news that Motion No. 136 passed in the House of Commons, and Mr. Hearn
and his colleagues are to be congratulated. The Premier has raised custodial
management with the Prime Minister, we have both brought this issue forward in
meetings with the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans, Mr. Regan, and we will
continue to pursue this matter on behalf of the people of Newfoundland and
Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the minister for a copy of
his statement.
On behalf of all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians I, too, would like to thank
MP, Loyola Hearn, for his initiative. In fact, I called his office this morning
to convey that thought. It was because of his hard work and tenacity that he
managed to get that motion passed last night.
Custodial management, as we all know in this House, has been an issue that
has been on the table here and there have been many resolutions, all-party
resolutions, that have been sent forward to Ottawa about the need for custodial
management on the Nose and the Tail of the Grand Banks.
What frightens me here today, in reading the statement that the minister just
issued, is that I think he has gone soft on the issue and he is wavering,
because he talks about other tools available to improve the management of our
fisheries that Canada should explore before instituting custodial management.
Well, Mr. Speaker, I can tell the minister opposite that we have watching those
other tools that the federal government has been using since 1997, and that is
the reason that there is no fishery on the East Coast of our Province today.
I say the time for talk is over, Mr. Speaker. Everyone in this House supports
custodial management and that is the reason that Mr. Hearn put forth the Private
Member's Resolution and was successful in getting it passed last night. The
time for talk is over. We should stand today, support Mr. Hearn, and have that
motion passed into
an act in the House of Commons -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
MR. REID: - before the House closes and it is lost after another
election.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I, too, would like to congratulate MP, Loyola Hearn, for his work on the
issue of custodial management over the Nose and Tail of the Grand Banks and the
Flemish Cap, but we would be remiss if we didn't also recognize the work of
Peter Stoffer, the Nova Scotia Member of Parliament for Sackville-Musquodoboit
Valley-Eastern Shore, who has also been ceaseless in his work on the Standing
Committee on Fisheries and Oceans in support of this Province, in support of
this issue, and was instrumental in getting a unanimous report from that
committee to the House of Assembly on this issue.
Mr. Speaker, this motion which was passed in the House yesterday had the full
support of the entire NDP caucus in the House of Commons. We have been there all
the way on this issue, both in this House and in the House of Commons, and that
deserves to be recognized so that the people of this Province know.
I, too, Mr. Speaker, am a little concerned to hear that this minister -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time has expired.
MR. HARRIS: By leave?
MR. SPEAKER: By leave?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.
MR. HARRIS: Just for a few seconds, Mr. Speaker.
I am a little concerned that this minister really only regards it as one of
support this motion yesterday in the House of Commons.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Before we begin Question Period today, I want to remind
members of some comments I made earlier, on the first day of Question Period,
reminding members that the questions should be brief, that time is scarce and we
should recognize that; also, that
preambles to questions should be brief, and
supplementary questions require no
preambles. Supplementary questions should, as
far as possible, flow from the answers of ministers. Likewise, answers to
questions should be as brief as possible, should deal with the matter raised,
and should not provoke debate.
I also note that yesterday, I do believe, there was some variance from our
general trend and the Speaker recognizes that. Today, I ask members to be more
cognizant of the need for brevity so we can get in as many questions and as many
answers as possible.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I appreciate the recognition of the good work I have been doing all week in
setting a good example.
Mr. Speaker, yesterday in this House, the Premier claimed that his insurance
plan would lead to significant reductions in automobile insurance rates. Today,
it has been reported in the media that even the Public Utilities Board does not
think the Premier's plan will reduce the rates but will ensure they increase
instead.
Now that it has been shown that the personal insurance plan of the Premier
has been so badly bungled by his one-man approach, would the Premier not agree
that it is time to go back to the drafting table, time to put back the cap that
he promised the people that would give savings, and to give up on this
ill-conceived notion of a deductible that is going to drive the claims up
instead of down?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am surprised that the Leader of the Opposition is endorsing an
article that says, "Local companies losing money", which means he is
in favour of more profits for insurance companies, because that is exactly what
he is saying - an industry that made $2.6 billion in profits last year.
From the government's position, Mr. Speaker, it is very clear. We have
acted within the first six months of our mandate to provide a solution to the
problem with insurance rates. Honourable members opposite, when they formed the
government, had eight years to do the same thing and did not act. We have, in
fact, implemented a 15 per cent average saving for consumers in insurance rates.
We are also going to be looking at commercial insurance, personal insurance,
home insurance. We are looking at marine insurance. We will have a comprehensive
hearing to deal with all types of insurance. We have acted swiftly, we have
acted promptly, and we have achieved average savings of 15 per cent.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, obviously the Premier is not going to admit that his one-man
show approach and his one-man solution to insurance rates is not working.
Instead of the savings, savings, savings that he talked about yesterday here in
this House of Assembly, in fact, the consumers will actually lose, lose, lose.
That is what is going to happen.
Mr. Speaker, the headlines today are screaming about the only group that will
not lose in Newfoundland and Labrador. The lawyers will not lose. Everybody else
stands to lose, especially the consumers. Where did the Premier come up with
this ill-conceived, lamebrain notion of a deductible? Could he tell me if it was
maybe at a personal injury lawyers convention? Because nobody else has heard of
it, that he has supposedly had careful deliberation with.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is unfortunate that the hon. member opposite engages in personal attacks,
as he has done before. I take great pride in my profession as a lawyer, when I
acted as a lawyer and represented people like Greg Parsons, Mount Cashel
victims, and lots of other clients that I represented, I thought, quite capably.
The fact that he talks about trial lawyers and everything else, I am sure the
Member for Burgeo & LaPoile takes offence to that. I am sure the Member for
Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi takes offence to that, because I am sure they have acted
for personal injury claimants as well. It is very unfortunate that you stoop to
those lows, unfortunately.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. member opposite is also very much aware that I have
withdrawn from my firm. I am no longer a partner in my firm. He can drive by the
building; my name is no longer on my firm name. You are stooping to another
all-time low.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: On a supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Obviously, the Premier does not want to answer the question. I understand
that is his prerogative. I asked where the idea came from. No answer yesterday,
no answer again today, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, a final supplementary. It is crystal clear, from what we have
seen, that the insurance companies will continue to make billions in profit.
Lawyers will continue to get richer and richer and richer, and the consumer will
most certainly continue to lose and pay the price with this particular one-man
show solution to insurance in Newfoundland and Labrador.
The question is this: When can, and who can, the volunteers and the consumers
expect someone on that side to stand up and actually fight for them, Mr.
Speaker?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, obviously the hon. gentleman opposite does
not really understand. You cannot have a situation where insurance companies are
making profits and lawyers are making profits, and everyone is making profits.
The idea of his solution is to get a contribution -
MR. GRIMES: (Inaudible) at all. You do not understand.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Time is very precious and I caution the hon. members that time spent in
exchanges across the House takes away from the right of the Premier to get to
his answer.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, as the hon. gentleman opposite knows,
these recommendations were made by the Public Utilities Board. They are based on
actuarial information, solid actuarial information which was provided to us by
the Public Utilities Board; based on a benchmark study, based on actual
actuarial results. There is, as well, going to be a 4 per cent reduction of
third-party claims. There will be savings based on collateral benefits. There
will be savings -
MR. SPEAKER: I ask the Premier now to finish his answer.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
There will be savings based on collision and comprehensive. There are direct
average savings, some as high as 18 per cent in areas off the Avalon to
consumers on their bills. We have achieved a saving. Obviously, the hon. member
opposite is not pleased that we have done it in six months when in eight years
he did nothing.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, would the Premier not admit that it is quite easy for lawyers to
make a profit. It is quite easy for the insurance companies to make a profit if
the consumers are forced to pay enough, as a matter of fact too much, which is
still what is going to happen after these reforms are brought into law by the
one-man show and his government.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I can only say it so many times. It is quite obvious if you look
at the recommendations, if you look at the documentation that was provided by
the Public Utilities Board. If you read and understand the actuarial results,
you will actually see that the recommendation that was made by the Public
Utilities Board will result in average savings of at least 15 per cent. It is
there in black and white and it is based on (inaudible).
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: We can say no more. Your allegations with regard to
lawyers and insurance companies are disparaging and very unfortunate under the
circumstances.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to direct my questions to the Minister of Government Services.
The government promised to table insurance legislation during this session. I
would like to ask the minister to stand today and give her first answer in this
House. My question for the minister: When will we see this legislation, and will
it be here before the Easter break?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can tell the hon. member opposite that it will be made available to this
House at the very first opportunity. We hope to have it before the Easter break
and, if not, it will be immediately after it. As soon as possible.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace, on a
supplementary.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: I would like to recognize the fact that the minister did try
to get up and speak.. I say to the minister that the Web site for identity theft
is www.gov.nl.ca/gs .
MR. SPEAKER: I ask the member to get to his question.
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, it was brought to the attention of the House
yesterday that many people will not see savings because they have already
renewed at higher rates. Since her plan will fail these people, will the
minister go back and make any special provisions to ensure real savings that are
being experienced by consumers? Who will fight for them?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can assure the hon. member opposite that his information is actually
incorrect. There will, in fact, be a rebate for consumers.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace, a final
supplementary.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: I thank the Premier for that commitment.
Mr. Speaker, we hear about how great this plan is. The Public Utilities
Board, which was supposed to write this plan, has condemned the government in
today's paper. Can the minister tell me why she wasted a $250,000 on a report
that was obviously ignored?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Quite the contrary, Mr. Speaker, the report was followed, acknowledged. The
report was accepted. I would ask the hon. gentleman opposite, or in fact any
member opposite, if they want to contact the Public Utilities Board. I spoke
with the Public Utilities Board this morning. Their position is very clear, is
very firm. I would welcome them - they stand by their opinion and I cannot be
responsible for the opinion of one person. They stand by their opinion and so do
we.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and
Employment and the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women.
The Premier has mismanaged the public sector negotiations and poisoned the
labour relations climate. He described serious concerns raised by respective
labour leaders as nonsense and insulting them by suggesting they have nothing
better to do when they are standing up for the workers' rights of this
Province. Does the minister feel that her leader's comments are building a
positive relations climate, or would she like for him to apologize and start
over?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and
Employment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BURKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am confident that this government certainly supports the
collective bargaining process. We respect the labour movement, and we will let
the collective bargaining process proceed.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Bellevue.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, as usual we not getting any answers to the
questions that we are asking here in this House of Assembly.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. BARRETT: I would like to ask the Minister Responsible for Labour if
she would ask the Premier today to swallow his pride and apologize so the unions
and the government can reach an agreement -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair has difficulty hearing the question. I am sure that the members do
understand the need for us to maintain good decorum during Question Period.
Again, I would pass the floor back to the Member for Bellevue.
MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, the question is for the Minister of Labour, who
is the person in the House of Assembly who represents labour and the workers in
this Province. I will ask her to ask the Premier to swallow his pride and
apologize so the unions and government can reach an agreement and avoid a strike
next week. I think it is very, very serious business in this Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and
Employment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, this is Question Period. If the hon. member would
like an answer from our leader, he can certainly ask the question to the leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I have a question for the Premier. I am encouraged by the answer of the
Minister Responsible for Labour, about collective bargaining.
Mr. Speaker, in June of 1988, his predecessor, the hon. Brian Peckford,
entered into an agreement with the public sector unions on pay equity,
recognizing that they had systemically discriminated against women in the public
sector. This agreement was, in fact, overruled by legislation of former Premier
Clyde Wells in 1991, knocking out the years 1988, 1989, 1990 and 1991 from the
benefits of pay equity.
Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Premier whether he is prepared to acknowledge,
support and implement the collective agreement signed by Premier Peckford in
1988 on pay equity?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I acknowledge a very good question from the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi. This matter is before the courts, but I can assure the Member for Signal
Hill-Quidi Vidi that I have had discussions with the Department of Justice and I
am presently looking into that issue myself, because I consider it to be a very
important issue.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the pay equity benefits for those four years amount to about $24
million, which the women of the public sector should have received. The
arbitrator hearing the case, the Supreme Court of Newfoundland and the Court of
Appeal, have all agreed that it amounted to discrimination against women.
Will the Premier tell us whether he is going to send his representative to
the Supreme Court of Canada in May and defend the decision to overrule this
agreement by legislation, or is he going to do the right thing and deal with the
question of pay equity honourably with the public sector workers in this
Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I can assure the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi that this
government, in all matters, will always do the right thing for the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, as well, I can assure the hon member that I am looking into this
issue, that our Cabinet is considering this issue, but it is a matter that is in
the hands of the Department of Justice. It is a matter that is before the
courts, and I have to do the appropriate and the right thing as well in that
particular perspective. I am looking at it and your point is well taken.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions are for the Minister of Education.
In a little over a month from now, on May 7, school boards around the
Province will have to tell teachers whether or not they have a job for next
fall. Can the minister stand today and tell how many teaching positions will be
cut in this year's Budget?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The question obviously is a timely one, and he is correct. The hon. member is
correct when he states that in due course boards will have to make decisions. Of
course, as the hon. member knows, that is an issue that is budgetary in nature,
and in due course, in a matter of days actually, the hon member, in addition to
the public of the entire Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, will have a
definite answer to that particular question.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Twillingate &
Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am glad that the minister is allowed to answer a question, but it is the
same response that we are getting from everyone: Wait for the Budget.
It has come to our attention that the minister's department has submitted
figures to Treasury Board stating that 378 teaching positions could be cut based
on the Sparkes-Williams formula. I am sure that the minister knows what that
formula means. I ask the minister: Is it true that he is going to slash 378
teaching positions in next week's Budget?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: The hon. member opposite is fully aware of where we are
in the budgetary process. In fact, the hon. member who just asked the question
is my predecessor in the Department of Education and knows full well the nature
and the circumstances and the process and the procedure with respect to the
budgetary process.
I can assure the hon. member that within days there will be a precise figure
known and the minister will know fully and totally the exact implications of the
decisions as a result of the budgetary process.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Twillingate
& Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In light of what the minister and his colleagues said last year about the
negative impacts teacher cuts would have on the quality of education in our
Province, why doesn't the minister stand today and tell the teachers of this
Province that he will not cut positions in this Budget?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Again I say to the hon. member, Mr. Speaker, that the
question is timely from the point of view that in a matter of days, and in a
matter of weeks, final decisions will have be made with respect to teacher
allocations, so that the eleven school districts, the eleven school boards, in
our Province can make the appropriate allocations.
I have to repeat myself in this particular case, it is clearly a budgetary
issue and within a matter of days the public of this Province will know totally,
in every respect, what the numbers are and what the allocations will be to allow
boards to complete the work that has to be done.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and Minister
responsible for Labrador Affairs.
Minister, I am glad to hear that your government is announcing a lot of the
Liberal commitments today in the House. A little over a year ago this government
committed $2.4 million to the people, especially children, in Labrador. You and
your government have not lived up to that promise and you haven't announced
it. You have put their lives on hold.
Minister, will you stand in this House today and confirm to the people in
Labrador that your government will honour that $2.4 million to the children in
Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture and
Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I believe that the Member for Torngat Mountains may be talking about the $2.4
million that the previous administration committed to the Mealy Mountains
auditorium. If that is the case, I will proceed to answer the question. As the
member knows, as with all other capital expenditures, since we became
government, over the past five months, all expenditures have been under review
and the same answer -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. TAYLOR: - will be provided just as was the case with the Grand Bank
hospital, Mr. Speaker. The decision on that will come in due course and as part
of the budgetary process again.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ANDERSEN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am glad to see that the minister is allowed to stand and answer a question.
Mr. Speaker, the school year has less than three months left, and there are
all kinds of things that the people of Labrador, the schools, are planning for
the coming year. If we have to wait for the Budget for some programs, it is
going to be to late.
Your government may have put this on hold, Minister, but a commitment was
made to the people in Labrador, to the children, and I am asking you again on
their behalf: Will you and your government today announce that you will honour
the $2.4 million to build an auditorium in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, to serve all
the children of Labrador? Minister, will you stand and confirm that commitment
today?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and
Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can only repeat that this government is well aware of the concerns of the
people of Labrador. We are well aware of the desire of the people of Labrador,
in all parts of Labrador, to have an auditorium. We are working diligently at
that, Mr. Speaker, looking at our options, looking at the commitments that were
made by the previous Administration.
I will remind the Member for Torngat Mountains that this government certainly
has moved forward on some issues in Labrador. We have, just as recently as last
week or the week before, announced Phase III of the Trans-Labrador Highway.
Mr. Speaker, these issues are significant expenditure items, and thanks to
the mess that the previous Administration left for us to deal with, we will have
to take our time and make sure that we make the appropriate decision within the
fiscal realities of this Province.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Torngat
Mountains.
MR. ANDERSEN: Again, another commitment that was given to the people in
Labrador regarding the Trans-Labrador Highway, Mr. Speaker, it was the
government of the day, the Liberal government, that made that commitment. Now,
you have announced that commitment. Minister, you and your government have
announced that commitment, you have announced the RCMP, you have announced
things for the Premier's riding. Will you today make that commitment to the
children in Labrador, that you and your government will honour that $2.4 million
to build the auditorium, yes or no?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and
Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The member is quite right in pointing out that we did honour a commitment
that was made on the Trans-Labrador Highway. We did deal with an issue on the
routing of the Trans-Labrador Highway that was controversial, and we made a
decision to move to the southerly route, that is significantly more costly for
the government of Newfoundland and Labrador. We did make that decision. He is
right, that we did make the decision announced last week in the Throne Speech on
the RCMP officers, who will be stationed in Labrador, so we are moving forward
on these issues.
As for the issue of the Mealy Mountain auditorium and the $2.4 million, I can
only say again that we are very cognizant of the concerns of the people there.
We are very aware of the desire of the people of Labrador to have an auditorium
and, Mr. Speaker, we will deal with that in due course.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment and
the Status of Women.
I want to ask the minister, Mr. Speaker, whether or not she will bring
forward the changes necessary to this House, to amend the Labour Standards Act,
so that people who take advantage for compassionate care under the new EI rules
will have their jobs protected the same as those who take leave for maternity or
other things.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and
Employment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. member that
compassionate care leave is something that we are looking at right now. It is
something we are analyzing and we will be making a decision some time this year,
if and when we will be bringing it to the House.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the minister that we are one of only a couple of provinces left to
bring forward this legislation and I want to ask the minister if we can look
forward to that being brought forth in this sitting of the House, during the
spring sitting?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and
Employment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I would like to confirm that we, too, as a
government, see that as a very important issue and we acknowledge that we have
not brought it to the floor yet, to the House. I cannot confirm today if it will
be in this sitting but I will confirm that it is a priority.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions are for the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and Labrador
Affairs. Last year we all made recommendations to the federal Minister of
Fisheries that we maintain a limited cod fishery not only in the Gulf, but along
the Northeast Coast of this Province. Does he still support this recommendation?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and
Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I never thought that the former Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture would
get around to asking me something.
Mr. Speaker, as the former minister knows, we did, as part of an all-party
of Fisheries and Oceans that was unanimously supported by all parties in this
House on a limited cod fishery off the Northeast Coast of Newfoundland and
Labrador and off the West Coast of Newfoundland and Labrador and Southern
Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, in deliberations with industry representatives, certainly from
Trinity Bay, Bonavista Bay over the past number of months since I became
minister, it was impressed upon me that they would, at the very least, like to
see a limited amount of cod available for by-catch allocations in that area so
they could continue to prosecute -
MR. SPEAKER: I ask the minister now to complete his answer.
MR. TAYLOR: Yes, Mr. Speaker. I will complete my answer right now and say
that, certainly, I think he will admit that as an all-party committee last year
we recognized the challenges in getting a full-scale commercial fishery on
Northern cod and that the West Coast cod fishery was able to be sustained.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Twillingate & Fogo.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, the minister said here in this House twice this
week that he has held discussions with the federal minister in recent weeks. I
know that he recommended a limited fishery for the Gulf. Did he, indeed,
recommend a limited fishery, as well, for 2J+3KL?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, and
Labrador Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I can confirm that when I met with Minister Regan on two separate occasions
that we did have a discussion on the Northern Gulf cod fishery and the Northern
cod fishery. I impressed upon him the need for the FRCC to have another look at
these stocks. His decision was to request the FRCC to look at the Northern Gulf
stock. I have said in my encounters with the minister and in my deliberations
with fishermen and fisher women and their representatives from Trinity Bay and
Bonavista Bay on the Northeast Coast, that consistent with their views we need
to have a bycatch allocation on the Northeast Coast of Newfoundland and Labrador
so they can prosecute the other fisheries in their area.
That is the position I put forward to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans,
and I think it is one that can be upheld.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The time for Question Period has expired.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance; President of Treasury
Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Pursuant to
section 49(2) of the Financial Administration Act, I wish to
table the attached list of temporary loans raised under
section 48 of the act,
since the last report to the House.
Pursuant to
section 55(3) of the Financial Administration Act, I wish to
report the following information with respect to guaranteed loans paid out by
the Province since the last annual report to the House. There was one, A. L.
Stuckless & Sons Ltd., the amount guaranteed was $1.2 million.
In addition, and pursuant to 55(1)(2), I wish to report that there has been
no guaranteed debt of any Crown corporation or agency assumed by the Province
since the last annual report to the House.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance; President of Treasury
Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that the House resolve itself into
a Committee of the Whole on Supply to Consider Certain Resolutions for the
Granting Of Supply to Her Majesty. (Bill 3)
Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow move the following motion:
"That This House Approve In General The Budgetary Policy of the
Government." Referred to as the Budget Speech.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.
MR. LANGDON: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I have a petition that I have cleared with the Clerk's Table. I will read
the prayer of the petition.
To the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in
Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS there is a definite need for improvements and expansions to the Bay d'Espoir
Medical Clinic located in St. Alban's; and
WHEREAS work on this facility has been announced and tendered by the previous
government but work has since been put on hold by the current government;
THEREFORE, the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to see this very important work on this health care facility
proceed without further delay.
Today, Mr. Speaker, this petition that I am presenting is from the
communities of St. Joseph's Cove, St. Veronica's, Morrisville and the Town
of Milltown, in Bay d'Espoir. Obviously, this particular petition speaks on
behalf of all of the communities in Bay d'Espoir because it is a regional
facility. Quite often you will find in different areas when people are looking
for facilities, they find somehow to not be able to agree on what community or
communities that these facilities should go in. Here in the Bay d'Espoir
region a number of communities, all of them, unanimously agree that the
extension to the clinic in St. Alban's should be done.
Mr. Speaker, again I ask government, in their deliberations, to show concern
for the people here and hopefully next Tuesday we can see that this particular
project that has been put on hold will finally be given the consent to go ahead
and award tenders.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port au Port.
MR. J. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition on behalf
of 9,352 residents of the West Coast of Newfoundland. The prayer of the
petition, Mr. Speaker, is:
WHEREAS the government of this Province in its capacity as a funding agent
for the Western Health Care Corporation has directed the Corporation to recover
its deficit and cut its current expenditures; and
WHEREAS the Corporation has proposed to accomplish this by eliminating rural
medical clinics, obstetrical and surgical services and substantially reducing
laboratory services at Sir Thomas Roddick Hospital in Stephenville;
THEREFORE, let it be known that your petitioners request that the Government
of Newfoundland and Labrador direct the Corporation to maintain obstetrical,
surgical and laboratory services at the Sir Thomas Roddick Hospital, to maintain
and provide current levels and additional funding necessary to maintain such
services.
Mr. Speaker, the names on the petition represent communities from Burgeo to
St. George's to Port au Port. Indeed, Mr. Speaker, names on the petition come
from just about all over the West Coast of Newfoundland.
Mr. Speaker, the petition arises from a proposal of the Western Health Care
Corporation which was submitted to the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.
The proposal contains recommendations and alternatives that would close clinics
throughout Western Newfoundland from Daniel's Harbour to Rose Blanche. The
proposal, which is being circulated widely in Western Newfoundland, also
suggests consolidation of obstetrical services and gynecology services from the
Sir Thomas Roddick Hospital in Stephenville and the Dr. Charles LeGrow hospital
in Port aux Basques to the Western Memorial Hospital in Corner Brook.
Those recommendations would downgrade the hospitals at Stephenville and Port
aux Basques and make them into large clinics instead of hospitals. They would
also remove clinics which are vital to the health of residents who live in
proximity to those clinics. Those recommendations and alternatives would be
disastrous to the health care in this part of the Province, and I pray that this
House obey the petition.
It is my prayer, and the prayer of the citizens who signed this petition, and
indeed the prayer of the citizens of rural Western Newfoundland, that the health
care of our citizens be the best that it can be.
Mr. Speaker, I am sure that this Administration will provide good health
care, and indeed will improve the health care of all Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.
MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I have a petition. It reads: To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland
and Labrador, in Parliament assembled.
WHEREAS the road to Southern Point and the road to McCarthy's Point in the
community of Bellevue have been plowed by the Department of Works, Services and
Transportation in the past and there is still a need to have these roads plowed
during the winter;
THEREFORE, the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to take actions to see that the road to Southern Point and the
road to McCarthy's Point in the community of Bellevue continues to be plowed
by the Department of Works, Services and Transportation.
Mr. Speaker, in our communities in rural Newfoundland, we have a lot of small
communities. This petition was signed by 168 residents of the community of
Bellevue. I would say that is probably the total number of people in the
community of Bellevue. These communities are not governed by local or community
councils, but have local service districts, and it has been the tradition, or
practice, of the Department of Works and Services to plow the roads in these
communities. In those two particular communities, we have people living in them.
They are very gainfully employed, in terms of working at the oil refinery. The
only thing that they receive from the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador is
the highway's plow going down their road every time there is a snow storm.
That is about the only kind of service that they receive from the provincial
government.
We give the cities in Newfoundland and Labrador all kinds of operating
grants, millions and millions and millions of dollars. We are talking about
peanuts here, Mr. Speaker, in terms of these small communities and what is
required to keep these small communities going. All we are talking about here is
for the plow, instead of turning around at a turnaround, is to go right on down
to the Cemetery Road in Bellevue. We are talking about 500 feet. I would say
when there is a snowstorm we are probably talking about $2 worth of fuel, and
here we are, residents living in these communities and cannot get their roads
plowed. I think there is a message here from this government across the way that
they are trying to resettle Newfoundland and Labrador because this year we saw
communities in this Province, on the Northern Peninsula, where they went for
twenty days without their roads being plowed.
I call on the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to give people in rural
Newfoundland some attention and get out and plow these particular roads.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I move to Orders of the Day, Bill 2, a resolution respecting the Granting Of
Interim Supply To Her Majesty, and that the House do now move into Committee to
consider this resolution.
On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr.
Speaker left the Chair.
Committee of the Whole
CHAIR (Fitzgerald): Order, please!
The Committee will now hear debate on Bill 2,
An Act For Granting To Her
Majesty Certain Sums Of Money For Defraying Certain Expenses Of The Public
Service For The Financial Year Ending March 31, 2005 And For Other Purposes
Relating To The Public Service; Interim Supply. The Chair will recognize the
first speaker.
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I appreciate an opportunity again today to continue in the Committee debate
with respect to Interim Supply and make a few points, just for information for
members of the House and for members of the general public.
The real circumstance, as I see it, Mr. Chairman, is that we look forward to
- early next week, on Tuesday of next week, as we understand it - when the
Budget will be brought down. This Interim Supply is about - as I understand it,
and been described by the Finance Minister - one-quarter of what would be
expected in the total budget for next year. It allows for the government to
continue on for the first three months of the year while the Budget debate, that
we will then begin next week, will continue in earnest. We look forward to
participating in that and we will want much more detail at that point and time.
We expect to see much more detail, beginning on Tuesday of next week. It will be
enlightening for all of us in Newfoundland and Labrador to get an answer other
than wait for the Budget. We are delighted to see the minister now prepared to
bring down a Budget early next week.
Just for my friend, the Minister of Finance who is sitting there in his seat
listening to every word I am saying - as he always is, and I appreciate that
because I know he always pays attention to me. The one irony I would point out
is that in the past -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. GRIMES: I wish the Minister of Finance would stop trying to make me
laugh, Mr. Chair, while he is over there making faces at me.
In any event, we have had some wonderful experiences with the Minister of
Finance when he was the Finance critic. In fact, he would always - I was
interested and amused when he introduced the bill last week and he said: Now,
this is very routine; you should not need any detail; everybody understands this
process; should pass in a couple of minutes; no need to debate this. It bears
reminding that his standard line for the last three years was: How can we
expect, Mr. Chairman, to pass this in just a few minutes and give the government
the right to spend over $1 billion without a significant debate? That is in
Hansard I think about twenty times from the now Finance Minister. Of course, his
introduction was: This is routine; there is nothing to this; nothing to be
alarmed about; it is only a little bit of money. It is only $1 billion or so for
a few months, do not worry about it. We do not need any details. It does not
need any explanation. So, we can carry on from there.
I am willing to acknowledge that it is an opportunity for all of us in the
House to raise some issues about the finances of the Province because it is a
major finance bill, probably the most major finance bill, Mr. Chairman, next to
the Budget itself. I would make a few comments.
One of the ironies I see in it is this - notice the number I just mentioned.
This bill is asking the House to give approval - the members that got elected,
the forty-eight of us - for the government to spend just over $1 billion. Now,
the number is not exactly $1 billion but there is coincidence in that because
the Premier of our Province, the one-man show that we have seen here the last
few days, who will let certain ministers speak but does not let other ministers
speak - and that is his prerogative to do so, we understand that. The one-man
show went on television on January 5 and said: We have a tough circumstance; we
have had this report done. He used the number of $1 billion, too. That is the
coincidence in it, Mr. Chairman, that I would like to speak to, for just a
minute or so.
He talked about $1 billion as well. We are talking about $1 billion. He
talked about the fact - and I think he has been straightened out since by the
Finance Minister; as a matter of fact, I know he has - that the Finance Minister
had a great deal of difficulty, because the Premier stated to the people of the
Province that we have to give $1 billion every year to the banks, to pay the
interest on our loans.
Now, of course, all of the caucus and Cabinet believed that because that was
the first time they heard it. That was the first time they heard it - it was on
television - just like everybody else, and they assumed that their Premier knew
what he was talking about, and that we actually had to give $1 billion to the
banks, for interest on the loans. They believed it so much, Mr. Chairman, that
the Minister of Justice was out on the radio a couple of days later answering a
question - I believe it was on a policing issue - and he said: Sure, we would
love to do more in policing, but you have to understand that the first billion
dollars that we spend every year, we have to give to the banks. We have to give
the first billion dollars to the banks, because the Premier said so.
I heard the Minister of Natural Resources making a speech in Mount Pearl, I
believe, to a Chamber of Commerce, and he said: You have to understand there is
a limit to what we can do, because the first billion dollars that we spend, we
have to give it to the banks.
Since then, the Minister of Finance has been in the public airways, on
television, on open line, the radio, every bit of media, saying: Oh, that
number, a billion, that number - and this is the point I want to make today, Mr.
Chairman - that number of a billion that my colleagues, the two ministers and
the Premier, said we have to give to the bank, that is not really a billion.
That is $600 million. Actually, it is a little less than $600 million - nowhere
close.
I know the Minister of Finance is listening intently now as I make this
point. I wonder how he would feel today, when he brings forward a bill asking us
to approve $1 billion that we are really going to spend - we are not going to
make out we are going to spend this; we are really going to spend this billion
dollars - how would he feel if he stood up today and said: Oh, I changed my
mind. It is not really $1 billion; it is only $557 million. Would he still pass
the bill today? Would he still want the bill passed today, if that big a change
had occurred?
Well, that is the change that the people of the Province and his own caucus
colleagues, as the Minister of Finance, have now come to understand, and he is
wondering why the union leaders and others who are engaged in serious
negotiations are down there questioning the Premier, because they found out from
the first statement that he made that he was willing to make a statement that
was not a correct statement. Since then, he has had his own Finance Minister -
as a matter of fact, I raised the issue publicly - his own Finance Minister has
been on the public airways at least a dozen times saying: That Opposition Leader
does not know what he is talking about. We do send $557 million dollars to the
banks.
Now, we owe some money somewhere else. We are not going to send it there. We
are not going to give it to anybody. We are not going to pay it to anybody, but
it is on the books because we owe it to somebody. Actually, we do not owe it to
somebody except the pensioners. Why are the pensioners upset? I asked for the
list, Mr. Chairman. Could you please send me the list of the institutions to
which the Premier is going to send the $1 billion?
I got the answer from the Minister of Finance himself. He gave me the list.
He listed them off. They are on a list just like this, just for the television
audience. It is just like this. It lists off the banks, lists off when they are
due, and it stops at $551 million. Then there is a little note on the back that
says: Oh, by the way, I cannot give you a list of the rest of it because this
money is not due except to individuals when they retire. I cannot list off the
thousands of individuals that I will send the other millions of dollars to when
they retire.
Meanwhile, the Premier of the Province stood up - or he might have been
sitting down; he was probably sitting down when he addressed the people of the
Province - on a Province-wide television address and he said: I have to send $1
billion to the banks. It has been proven since then, and confirmed by his own
minister, that he went out and made a statement to the people of the Province
that, in fact, is very, very different than what they actually have to do.
They are going to bring in a Budget on Tuesday. I say again, how would the
Minister of Finance feel if we took this billion dollar bill that he wants us to
approve later today - and I would expect, Mr. House Leader on this side, we will
probably approve it. I would expect, and I would say to the House Leader
opposite, that we will probably approve it because we understand that people
need to have the money, they need to get their cheques the first of the month.
We do not plan to hold anybody up, so we are going to approve the expenditure,
the actual payment of $1 billion of cash today. We are not going to approve $551
million that we pay, and $400 million-and-something that we might have to pay in
fifteen years for someone who has been working fifteen years, in twenty years
for someone who has only been working ten years, in thirty years for someone who
just started. That is not what we are approving today. We are going to approve
actual money that will actually be spent this year, very unlike what the Premier
tried to describe to the people of the Province.
Mr. Chairman, the real solution is this, and I may get a chance to make one
more short intervention before we pass this particular bill today. The real
difficulty in the Province - because the other thing the Premier said in his
Province-wide address was: What about wait lists? What about people waiting for
health care services? What about lack of teachers in the schools, the kinds of
things that happen? I tell you what: If you think it is bad now, what is it
going to be like when there is no deficit, when you actually spend less money?
That is when you are going to see real wait lists. That is when you are going to
see real hardship on people. The Premier was right when he said there is going
to be some pain and suffering. There is going to be some pain and suffering, and
we will go through it together.
Mr. Chairman, I will stop my comments there. I might come back a little later
in the debate, but I can assure the hon. House Leader, the Minister of Finance,
that on behalf of the Official Opposition we have some comments we would like to
make today in the debate, but we will indeed be passing this real expenditure of
over $1 billion, not what the Premier was describing in his address on January
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
CHAIR: The hon. he Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
A year ago, when they were the government, they announced that they were
going to move to a new system, an accrual basis of accounting. They, very
loudly, proclaimed that they were going to include everything now in the
financial statement instead of - stopping that hiding game that they played for
many years.
One of the fundamental basis of accrual accounting is that you incur all of
the things that you are paying out on a cash basis. You must allow for all of
the costs that are being incurred today, but do not have to be paid until
tomorrow or next year or ten years or thirty years' time, like unfunded
pension liability cost related to that, and post-retirement liabilities.
MR. GRIMES: (Inaudible).
MR. SULLIVAN: I am going to get to that. I am going to get to what he is
saying if he would give me time over there.
CHAIR: Order, please!
MR. SULLIVAN: In this current fiscal year - what the Leader of the
Opposition did not include, what he did not tell the people, he only included
the number in the consolidated funds service that we pay for interest. In this
fiscal year that is $551.5 million. He did not tell what we were paying for the
health care corporation, the Health Sciences Centre, the borrowing interest on
that; the interest on Crown corporations financed and funded to a decrease by
the government and taxpayers of this Province. He forgot to include that $61.2
million this year. That brings it up to $612.7 million in this fiscal year, a
direct payout in interest.
Also, on top of that, there is $330.8 million for unfunded pension liability.
It is a cost we are incurring today that pensioners would expect to get tomorrow
or next year, or twenty-years' time. If we followed his line of thinking, we
should not allow for that. We should not give them that $330 million down the
road in twenty-years' time when it is due. He would be the first one up on his
feet complaining if we did not make allowances and did not include that. Oh, no,
we were not supposed to include that. You are not going to get paid that. That
is the line of reasoning he is using.
The Public Sector Accounting Board of the CICA indicated that we have to
start accruing for post-retirement liabilities. There are many people in this
Province working for the public service. When they retire they have life
insurance and they have health insurance. They pay 50 per cent of it and their
former employer, this Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, pays 50 per cent.
If we cut that off we would have no liability. If we said we are not going to
cover that anymore we could write $1.25 billion off the accrued liability of our
Province. We could write off over $70 million on an annual basis for those who
are retired, but we have to include it while it is there because the cost
incurred today is a debt that must be paid and it must be included on the
financial transactions of our Province. That is the games that were played
before, shifting money, hiding money, not counting money, not doing those types
of things.
The Public Sector Accounting Board, the reason it is in it - it is in the PWC
report, it is in our statements when we release them - is because on May 3 of
last year that very group there, when they were the government, gave approval to
start tabulating and instructing the actuary to tabulate that cost of
post-retirement liability, and that must be included. On November 28, the PWC
interim report showed that it could be $50 million for this year but it is a
ballpark. If you delay the report beyond the middle of December to the
twenty-second, we could get you a more accurate figure, and we did. We got a
figure of about $93 million; on a total basis $1.25 billion. So, they are the
type of figures that you can play.
Every single year in the Auditor General's report it talks about what
percent of your debt servicing costs, what percent of that of revenues. In other
words, that is called flexibility. There are three measurements of the health of
a province: there is the sustainability, to be able to carry on what you are
doing; there is the flexibility issue; and there is the vulnerability issue.
Under the issue of flexibility, one of the measurements of flexibility of a
province is the debt servicing costs as a percentage of revenues that you have
at your disposal, and you must include those costs.
The Auditor General in his report last year, Mr. Noseworthy, said that the
debt servicing costs as a percent of revenue was 23.9 per cent. This year we are
up in a 25 per cent range. If we go on the same path we are on now, it will be
close to 30 per cent in four years' time. It is included by the Auditor
General. It is a separate procedure when you are looking at the government's
flexibility to be able to manoeuver and have money at its disposal to supply
basic programs and services. When you have to dedicate 25 per cent of debt
service costs, that means you do not have as much money at your disposal to
provide health care, education, social services, roads, bridges, salaries and
everything else that a government of a Province is expected to deliver to its
people. So, there are two sets of figures. There are three sets of figures in
the Budget but it is important that we start thinking on one set of figures, the
one true real deficit of the Province, and that is the accrual deficit of the
Province. There is a cash component to that deficit, a very important part and
that is an issue that is very serious, too.
That government over there increased, by many fold, over double the debt of
our Province in a matter of just several years. They dug us so deep in the hole
we have to allocate $1 billion a year in costs of debt servicing to meet our
commitments. That is shameful. It is a deep hole we have been put in. It is
going to take us years to get out of it, years and years and years.
We used over $1 billion of one-time revenue to spend to falsify the level
between the true revenues and expenditures, and created a structural deficit in
our Province that is going to be very, very difficult to rein in. It is going to
take a period of time of fiscal restraint, proper spending, to eliminate the
type of waste we have seen from a former government here in our Province, to get
us back on the road again.
It is shameful that the people of this Province should have to endure that.
Had they been in power another year, I think they would have ruined us. They
would have put us over the brink. That is what they would have done. We had to
put the brakes on. We came into power on November 6, and we had to put the
brakes on before we hit the wall. We are going to get this Province back on a
road to fiscal responsibility -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: - so that the people of this Province will have an
opportunity to be able to avail of the services that any ordinary Canadians
would like to have; but, we have been put into a deep, deep hole because they
spent lavishly. They spent for political purposes, they spent to get re-elected.
They would not make a decision. They put billions over the last number of years,
much of that which was complete waste and misdirected funding. They had no
concern for the future direction, or a plan. It was ad hoc spending, spending on
- I will not start to name them because of all of the bad decisions. I have said
some of them before. I will not reiterate and get into specifics, but there were
many, many bad decisions. Every day I go through and read things that were done,
and I find out more and more and more of the horrendous decisions that were
made, all to get re-elected.
What people should do when people make bad decisions is, kick them out of
office. We will be years and years paying for the mistakes of that former
government. No citizen of this Province should be inflicted with that punishment
that was put in place by a government, and that is why they were so resoundingly
defeated at the polls, because they lost the trust.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: They lost the trust of the people of the Province because
they did not believe what they were doing was correct.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SULLIVAN: I say to the member who is shouting out and interrupting,
from Twillingate & Fogo, who is not even in his seat, which he is not
supposed to be -
CHAIR: Order, please!
MR. SULLIVAN: I am not going to be disturbed or distracted by statements
coming from a former minister here, who was one of the ones who participated in
making a lot of these bad decisions. We can only hope that we can correct some
of them. We can hopefully steer around others that we cannot correct, and do the
best with what is left to give the best possible service.
I just want to say that the Leader of the Opposition is putting out figures.
He talks about an accrual basis when it is convenient. He talks about a cash
basis when it is convenient. He talks about a consolidated cash basis when it is
convenient. He tries to throw figures out to confuse the public, but the public
does not get confused because it all comes out once a year in the public
accounts of our Province, produced in the fall. It is audited, referenced by the
Auditor General, that they are the actual accounts, accurate accounts of our
Province, and that is the one true story.
I have said it before, the situation in our Province is serious. We are going
to correct it, but it is that side of the House that put us in this situation
after fifteen years, many of these years of mismanagement - many, many -
especially for the last few years, there has been total mismanagement of our
Province's finances. It has to stop, it is going to stop, and we are going to
start the road to fiscal responsibility -
CHAIR: Order, please!
I remind the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board that his
time has lapsed.
MR. SULLIVAN: A half-minute to finish up, Mr. Chair?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
CHAIR: By leave.
MR. SULLIVAN: The road to recovery starts on Tuesday. We will start on
the road to fiscal responsibility in our Province and try to clear up the mess
that was created over the last number of years.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune.
MR. LANGDON: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to have a few words to say on the Interim Supply Bill as well.
It is good to see that my colleague here, the Minister of Municipal and
Provincial Affairs, is in Interim Supply here, a total of $65,655,900.
Mr. Chairman, it is my fifteenth year being elected, as I said yesterday, but
I was only a part of Cabinet for six years. I sat for about nine years in the
back bench, and I was reminded when Clyde Wells was here, and I think at one of
Unless you sit in the Cabinet and you are one of the thirteen or fourteen people
who are inside, you are outside of the inner circle. You are what we call the
second box. You are not part of government. You are the back bench and the
government is the Cabinet.
Obviously, regardless of whether you are inside or not, in ten or fifteen
years from now, or four years or whatever the case might be, everybody that sits
on the side of the House will have to bear the responsibility politically of the
decision that is made by the people on the front bench. That is the way it goes
and nobody can do anything to counter that.
In the last three years, Mr. Chairman, I had the opportunity to be the
Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, and nobody is perfect. I say here
in the House today, anybody who thinks that they are perfect, put their hand in
a bucket of water, take up a handful of water, and the hole that you leave is
how indispensable you are. There is nobody that cannot be replaced, and I
recognize my colleague here, a great friend of mine, would do a good job in the
department as well.
I want to say another couple of things. It has been noted, for example, here
today that there is the mess that the former government created and we have to
clear it up. Let me just talk about a few of the things. Lets look, for example,
at Marystown in Burin-Placentia West. When the council came and said to me -
they had been at it for about nineteen years, I think it was - they wanted a new
water treatment plant for the town, we were able to negotiate with the town a
new $3 million water treatment plant that would give them state-of-the-art water
by the time it was finished. Should we have done it? Is that part of the mess. I
am glad to have done it for that particular town, but it also included that
government, of course, would have to pay some dollars as a result of it.
We made a conscientious effort, Mr. Chairman, a couple of years ago when we
did the Canada-Newfoundland infrastructure, that many of the municipalities in
this Province could not afford the one-third, one-third, one-third formula. The
provincial government decided to take up a large proportion of that particular
amount, and the minister would know what I am talking about. Many of the smaller
towns - in fact, the provincial government took up, in some cases, 70 per cent,
75 per cent, 80 per cent, 85 per cent, 90 per cent of the amount of money that
would normally have been paid by the municipality. That was a conscious decision
that we made with the hope to help the smaller municipalities in that part of
the Province. Now, is that part of the mess? Is that part of the legacy?
I tell you, the other thing that we were able to do, for example, in the
Community of Deer Lake, we were able to work with the Community of Deer Lake to
build a new recreation facility, a new swimming pool, bowling alley lanes and so
on there. It was shared as a cost revenue between the federal government,
ourselves provincially, and the municipality. We also put a new water treatment
plant in Deer Lake. Is that part of the mess?
I look at the Member for Mount Pearl, and, I think, when he was the mayor he
came to see me and some of the officials, along with the minister at the time,
to redevelop the townsite of Mount Pearl, the whole townsite. I believe my
memory serves me correctly, something like $4.7 million.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. LANGDON: Okay, $6.2 million. We decided to go fifty-fifty. The
Government of Newfoundland and Labrador picked up $3 million-plus from the City
of Mount Pearl. Is that part of the mess? Should we have done it?
I think of the Member for Conception Bay East & Bell Island when she was
Mayor of the Town of Paradise and they wanted a multi-year capital works
program. We said, okay, we will do it for you fifty-fifty. It was 50 per cent
that was incurred by the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Is that part of
it? Should we have said no?
Should we have said no to CBS and Mayor Ryan when he came in here and looked
for $6.5 or $8.5 million on a fifty-fifty cost-sharing basis to put water and
sewer there?
The list goes on and on. I think about the Minister of Tourism, in his
district, in the Community of Burlingon. I believe it was about $1 million that
we put into the Community of Burlington, and we put it there on a ninety-ten
ratio. The provincial government picked up 90 per cent of the community share.
Is that part of it? Should we have done that?
I can say to you, Mr. Chairman, if we had not done that for many of the
smaller municipalities in Newfoundland and Labrador, they would never have been
able to survive. Contrary to what a lot of people believe in the urban areas, I
can name you a community - which I will not - in a rural part of the Province, a
very small community. Do you know what they pay per year for water and sewer?
Over $500 a year, for just water and sewer alone. They have taxed their people
to the limit. So, for me it is important that people in - and that is not
counting, by the way, the $540. That has nothing to do with the property tax,
that is on top of that. So, where do the people in the smaller municipalities
not be able to find the revenue? Obviously, we have picked up 90 per cent of
that. What was wrong with it?
I think of the Member for Terra Nova, when I visited the town council in
Glovertown. They wanted about $1 million to do water and sewer and
infrastructure in through Glovertown. When I left the mayor and the council,
there were certain areas in Glovertown where the sewer actually flowed in the
ditches. They were contaminated. In the summer people could not actually stay
out, or stand the stink that was coming from the ditch. So we took $1 million -
not only did we pay the one-third our own share, but we paid a certain
proportion in Glovertown as well. Should we have done it? We think we should
have. We should have done it, because when you add it all up -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) get elected.
MR. LANGDON: Yes, that is fine if you got elected. I had nothing to do
with that. The thing is that the people decides these things, and they decided.
So these are some of these things.
I think of, in the City of St. John's, when the mayor came to see me on a
50-50 $30 million. Should we have said no? We gave it to him, but here is the
dollars that are now showing up that is part of the so-called (inaudible) mess
that is back there.
I can think of the Member for Bonavista North, when we talk about the now new
town hall for New-Wes-Valley. We went in there and we did that for them. These
are only some of the few things that I wrote down.
Also, Mr. Chairman, I think of the communities in Newfoundland that needed
debt restructuring. Just let me give you this one. We had a number of
communities in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, probably close to 200
of them, that were on the verge of bankruptcy. So what we did, over the last
number of years, is we spent $50 million restructuring the debt of these small
municipalities. Should we have done it? I think we should. I guess I am guilty
of doing it. I thought it was a great thing that we were able to do.
Some of the other things that come to mind; the $34 million for The Rooms in
St. John's. Should we have done it? The thing about it, it was done. You have
the new Mile One Stadium in St. John's. Should we have spent a lot of money to
do that?
Then I think of the situation in Gander, a number of delegations from the
Town of Gander for the new recreation facility there. I remember one of the
communities in Newfoundland that had real bad water, high THMs, was Gander. The
mayor, the council, and the people came and said: we need a new system for
Gander but we cannot even afford the one through Windsor. Can you do anything
better than that for us? After some deliberations I think that we might have,
but these are millions and millions of dollars that have gone back into small,
rural communities in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr.Chairman, also I think about a number of situations where we had the
make-work projects over a number of years. I know, like last year on the
Northern Peninsula - or all together, I guess, there was about $5 million that
we spent in make-work projects. I think that in the Member for The Straits &
White Bay North, we probably put more than $500,000 in the district. I know also
for the Member for St. Barbe it was probably $300,000 or $400,000. It was
probably $1 million into those two districts. It was needed. They deserved it.
Is it money that we should have spent? I think that we should. When you start to
add all these things up, Mr. Chairman, then obviously these are dollars that had
to go into the Province.
One of the things, Mr. Chairman, that we have to realize in this Province -
and I think that all of us who come from the rural part of the Province
recognize it more than ever - is we have a very thinly, sparse, population base
in the Province. We have 278 communities out there; councils.
CHAIR: Order, please!
I remind the member that his time has expired.
MR. LANGDON: Just one second to conclude.
CHAIR: Does the member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. LANGDON: We have 151 local service districts and about 200
communities that are not incorporated at all. If you are going to provide
services for all of these over a land mass that is bigger than the Province of
Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and P.E.I. combined, to provide services in health,
education and infrastructure, I am telling you it is going to cost dollars. The
people of the Province, at the end of the day, will recognize that these dollars
have to be spent.
I guess anybody that is in government, when you go there you do what you
think is right. Nobody ever comes in here and does something that they think is
wrong. Obviously, at the end of the day, hindsight can be 20-20 for all of the
decisions that you made. But, Mr. Chairman, I stand by the things that I was
able to do for the people that I was responsible for in the department over the
last number of years.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, I stand again today to say a few words in support of the Interim
Supply Bill. I was listening to the Minister of Municipal and Provincial
Affairs, former - Freudian slip there - and I have to say that I think most
people, when we were on that side of the House and had any dealings with the
former Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, I think he treated us
pretty fairly, generally speaking, and I think members will agree to that.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. J. BYRNE: Then again, Mr. Chair, he was only one member. He was only
one member on the government side of the House at that point in time.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) shoes to fill.
MR. J. BYRNE: No trouble.
AN HON. MEMBER: Six-and-half size shoes.
MR. J. BYRNE: The former Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs is
saying that he only had size six-and-half shoes and I might have to fill those
shoes. Well, I take size eleven, I say to the former Minister of Municipal and
Provincial Affairs, and you might have a job to fill mine when this is all said
and done. We do not know yet. That remains to be seen.
Mr. Chair, the Interim Supply Bill is a very important piece of legislation
that needs to get through this House of Assembly before March 31 of this year,
because it has to do with providing funds to pay for the ongoing services, of
course, that the government has to have with the various departments, such as
the Department of Health, the Department of Transportation and Works, the
Department of Municipal Affairs, all of the different various departments within
the government, and particularly the salaries for the people who are providing
the services. Obviously the Budget will not be approved before March 31, so the
situation is that the Interim Supply Bill has to be approved before March 31.
The Budget, as the Minister of Finance has said, will be coming down on
Tuesday. We have had questions in the House of Assembly today concerning various
issues that the Opposition had every right to ask, concerns with respect to the
government and various departments. Again, there were a number of answers given
on this side of the House, that they need to wait for the Budget to come down. I
think that is normal procedure, par for the course, as you would say, Mr. Chair.
The people of the Province would know that. Certainly, members on the opposite
side of the House of Assembly would know that, and we will be continuing in due
course to do what is normally done each year at this point in time.
Mr. Chair, I want to say a few words with respect to the situation that we
find ourselves in today, and that is concerning the potential for a strike in
the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. I am an eternal optimist. I have to
be, I suppose, an eternal optimist to be in politics sometimes. There is no
doubt about that.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. J. BYRNE: What is that?
AN HON. MEMBER: Internal?
MR. J. BYRNE: Eternal, I say to the member.
AN HON. MEMBER: Eternal.
MR. J. BYRNE: There you go.
Mr. Chair, we all on this side of the House obviously are hoping that the
negotiations that are ongoing as we speak, have been ongoing since Sunday, will
come to a successful completion by March 31. No one on this side of the House,
obviously, or on that side of the House, or I am sure most people in the civil
service, the different organizations, the different groups, would want to be
going on strike on April 1. As we have said here today, the previous speakers,
we will let the process take its course and we will hopefully see a successful
solution. Again, that remains to be seen and hopefully that will happen.
The Budget in previous years, and again I said this the other day in the
House of Assembly, I spoke on that side of the House many time when I was in
Opposition with respect to the budgets that were brought forward over the past
number of years, and often the government of the day, the people sitting on that
side of the House, would say: We are bringing down a balanced Budget.
I remember, when I was critic for finance a few years ago, standing in the
House of Assembly saying: Listen, this is not a balanced budget. You are not
telling the whole picture. You are not showing the whole picture. Obviously,
they were not and did not at that point in time. Since then, of course, the
present Administration and the present of Minister of Finance, who was the
critic for finance last year, stood in his place and questioned the government
many times on their financial situation, on what they were portraying to the
people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
We find now that last year the deficit was $800 and-some-odd million. It is
not something that this Province of less than 500,000 people can sustain. We
cannot continue to go on paying that kind of money for the services that are
being provided, and the people of the Province realize that.
For example, I say to you, Mr. Chair, I was going into the supermarket the
other day and there was a gentleman there - I would say sixty or so - putting
his groceries in his car and he said to me: You have a hard job on your hands. I
said: Well, we will work our way through it. We did not get there overnight. It
took us over fifty years to get there, and we will work our way through it and
we will solve it. He said: I will tell you now, we voted you people in to do the
right thing. You have to put us back on the rails.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Chair, that is what we are going to do. Better than
that - you talk about the seniors and the issue that the unions are making with
the seniors - I went into the supermarket, got in the lineup, and there was a
couple there, I would say, in their seventies, and they were speaking to me
again. Almost word for word, they said: You know, Jack, you and your government
have a hard job ahead of you. The crowd that came before you left you in hard
shape. In a very difficult situation they left the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador. I said: That is right. We cannot argue that.
AN HON. MEMBER: The people know.
MR. J. BYRNE: The people know. There is no doubt about that. They said:
Please, for my children and my grandchildren's sake, will you do the right
thing and put this Province back on the rails again? Again, I said to this
couple: Listen, we know we have a hard situation before us. It took us a long
while to get here. It will not be cured overnight, but we have a Premier, we
have a Minister of Finance, and the people you elected to form the government
this time around will do the right thing. I said to this individual: What we
will do is, we will make the decisions based on what is right for the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador. We will not make decisions based on what is right for
a political party, or a given individual who wants to get re-elected -
MR. JOYCE: (Inaudible) decisions already (inaudible).
MR. J. BYRNE: The member opposite, the Member for Bay of Islands, said we
are making political decisions already. Listen, we are setting priorities. The
government here have already set priorities, and that is the right thing to do.
That is proper planning, I say to the members opposite, to set priorities, to
address those priorities when you have the fiscal means to address those
priorities. Now, that is quite reasonable to me. I know it is not reasonable to
the members on the opposite side because that is not what they did. They saw
something that they thought they wanted to do, that was good for certain groups
at that point and time, Mr. Chair, and they went ahead and did it regardless of
the fiscal responsibilities, regardless of the repercussions of the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador. That is what they did on that side of the House. We
are not going to do that.
For example, we had the Minister of Health being questioned here in this
House of Assembly - we are here less than a week - on the health care in the
Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. What we are committed to, I say to the
Member for Bay of Islands, what we are committed to is to have good, effective
health care in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, to have sustainable
health care in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.
There may be some difficult decisions in the meantime, but we will do what is
right, what the people asked us to do on October 21, 2003, by putting us in
place to do those very things, and we are planning on doing them. We will do
something in the fashion of proper planning and implementation. How you
implement things is a very important factor, too, I say to members on the other
side of the House of Assembly, how you implement things.
Mr. Chair, governments are elected oftentimes on promises they made. You
know, looking back at the last election, we really did not make promises, other
than say we would do the right thing. I say to the members opposite - and I hear
them on the other side now, the former Minister of Works, Services and
Transportation, the Member for Bellevue - I have been in politics for eleven
years this May and I was a mayor for seven years before that. That is eighteen
years. You know something? I have been re-elected and re-elected and re-elected.
The last time in my district I had the biggest majority I have ever received.
You know something? I have never made a promise to an individual yet, to say I
will promise you I will get you this or I will get you that.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. J. BYRNE: Mr. Chair, what I tell them is that I will do what I can
for them. That is what people expect. That is what they want. If you make a
reasonable effort to do something for the individuals, they understand that
sometimes you are successful, sometimes you are not successful, but knowing that
you will do your best is what they want. Mr. Chair, that is what this
Administration is going to do. We are going to do our best for the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador. Make no mistake about it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. J. BYRNE: There may be a bit of hardship up front, but four years
down the road.... I had an individual phone me the other night, Mr. Chair, and
he was all upset. He said: You know, Jack, I supported the party for years and
years and years, back to Peckford time, and I have concerns about the upcoming
strike and what have you. I am going to have trouble the next time around to
vote for you. So, what do you think of that? I said: Well, I am disappointed
that you feel that way but we have been in power for five months. The previous
Administration where there for fifteen years and I am hoping that four years
down the road you will look back on this conversation and say Jack, I was wrong,
you did the right thing. You did what you had to do. Your government did what
they had to do, and you did what we asked you to do. That is what I am saying. I
think most people out there -
CHAIR: Order, please!
MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
He is giving me the sit down sign. I am I sure I will have lots of time to
speak again, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Bellevue.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It is indeed a pleasure today to get up and speak about this Interim Supply
Bill which, as the Minister of Finance said, is nothing but just routine matters
here today; that we are up here talking about spending $1,287,000,000, which is
nothing but routine, just routine procedures that is all. As a matter of fact,
he said, it should not take very long.
I would call attention to the new members within the House of Assembly,
because most of the time the devil is in the details. We have gotten very, very
little detail in terms of what is in here, except for the headings of the
various departments and how much money is going to be spent in each department.
We are talking about expenditures that are going to be for three months of the
year. What we are talking about here is one-quarter of the Budget. One-quarter
of the Budget is in the Interim Supply Bill. We are talking about expenditures
for April, May and June. Last year, at the same corresponding three months, the
government of which I was a
part looked for $1,349,000,000. The present
government, this year, is looking for $1,287,000,000, which means that it is a
$62 million difference than what we were looking at last year in terms of
expenditures for April, May and June.
If you were to project that along in terms of the total year, we are looking
at a reduction in the Budget that will come down next week, on Tuesday. The
Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board will rise in his place next
week and he will be talking about cuts of $248 million. So, $248 million of cuts
will come next week in the Budget by the Minister of Finance.
I would anticipate that there will be a lot of surprises after the Budget,
because most of the answers to the questions in the House of Assembly in the
last number of days, it is almost like the Tim Horton's Roll Up the Rim to Win
scenario, in that we are all here waiting to roll up the rim to see if we are
going to win that truck. I assure you that the members on the back bench over
there are going to spend some time rolling up the rim after this Budget comes
down.
If you just want to go back and look at the kind of input that is received
from the backbenchers and the people in the government opposite. I have a news
release here: Motor Registration may be leaving Holyrood. For the viewing
audience here: Motor Registration may be leaving Holyrood. Do you know what? The
council was upset about the move, moving Motor Registration out of Holyrood. The
council was upset about losing the office, but they were more upset about the
fact that they were not notified about the move by MHA Terry French. French says
he found out about the matter about the same time the council did. When the
landlord notified the council, he also notified the Member for Conception Bay
South that one of the offices in his district was going to close down, and he is
the Parliamentary Assistant to the Premier.
Now, the Parliamentary Assistant to the Premier is a very, very important
position within the government. It advises the Premier on all kinds - I have
served in that position over a number of years. It provides advice to the
Premier. There are staff meetings which take place where the Parliamentary
Assistant is involved and sits down with the staff in the Premier's Office. It
plots the planning and what have you for the Premier's Office, what the
Premier is going to do, and here is the right-hand man of the Premier, his
Parliamentary Assistant, a landlord in his district calls him and tells him that
the office is going to close down, and we talk about a one-man show. My blessed
Moses, I never heard tell of it in the whole time that I was in the House of
Assembly.
MR. E. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIR: A point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible) be clear now and hear what the member said. He
said he never heard tell of it since he was in the House of Assembly. I wonder
if he can remember, at 1 o'clock on CBC Radio, when he was speaking in favour
of -
AN HON. MEMBER: Mr. Chairman, that is not point of order.
MR. E. BYRNE: It is a point of order. I am asking if he can remember -
CHAIR: Order, please!
MR. E. BYRNE: - when he was speaking that he was in favour exporting
water from Gisborne Lake. Not only that, but a half-hour before his Premier made
a statement that they were not going to do it anymore and they never heard tell
of it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Chair, guess what job he held in the House of Assembly?
AN HON. MEMBER: What?
MR. E. BYRNE: Parliamentary Assistant to the Premier. Can you remember
that?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
CHAIR: Order, please!
There is no point of order.
The hon. the Member for Bellevue.
MR. BARRETT: As usual, the Member for Kilbride and the Government House
Leader is up again on nothing but a point of foolishness, a point of nonsense,
which he is so used to doing in this House of Assembly.
I want to tell you, if you want me to address that particular issue, Mr.
Chair, at the time that the Premier decided he was going to cancel that
particular project, I said to him, I am going on CBC and I am going to come out
against you. I am going to fight for the people in my district. I do not care
what you do as the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BARRETT: I am going to fight for the people in my district! So, I
could not care what Brian Tobin did.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. BARRETT: I was elected by the people of Bellevue, to represent the
people within Bellevue, and I stood up for the people of Bellevue and the people
in Grand Le Pierre and the Gisborne Lake proposal. I can tell you, I will stand
any day and I will fight any premier, any government, for the residents in my
district. So, the Member for Kilbride, will you stop your foolishness, your
utter foolishness? I have been in this House a long, long time and you are about
the only member in here that gets up on so many points of foolishness.
Here we have the kind of input that the government members have. The Premier
of this Province went on provincial television and gave his presidential
address, and he did not even notify his caucus or his Cabinet that he was going
to freeze the wages in this Province. That is the kind of government we have
here, ladies and gentlemen and hon. members. This is the kind of government we
have in this particular Province.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. BARRETT: Yes, the hon. Member for Placentia & St. Mary's, we
all saw what happened when he decided to vote with his const