Fourth Session, 41st Parliament

(2019) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Monday, May 13, 2019

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 254

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Orders of the Day

Private Members’ Statements

Alt-right movement

R. Singh

T. Wat

Vaping

T. Stone

B. D’Eith

Living wage

R. Leonard

L. Reid

My first job

I. Paton

S. Malcolmson

Private Members’ Motions

Motion 13 — Opposition to conversion therapy

N. Simons

J. Thornthwaite

S. Furstenau

D. Davies

J. Rice

P. Milobar

D. Routley

M. Stilwell

S. Chandra Herbert

M. Bernier

M. Elmore

MONDAY, MAY 13, 2019

The House met at 10:02 a.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers.

Orders of the Day

Private Members’ Statements

ALT-RIGHT MOVEMENT

R. Singh: Today I rise in the House to make a statement on a very serious

issue that we are facing globally. That is the alt-right movement. We

know that in recent years hate crimes, the rise in white nationalism,

has increased. We have seen the surge, not just in Canada but all over

the world.

[R. Chouhan in the chair.]

Just in February, we had a really horrible incident in New

Zealand, in Christchurch, where almost 50 people died and more than 50

got injured. We know that the person who did it was influenced by this

alt-right movement. He got influenced mostly on line by all the material

that was being spread.

I remember, in 2016, when the election was happening across the

border and Donald Trump was running, the kind of rhetoric that we were

hearing from south of the border. We saw some incidents happening here

in Canada, especially in B.C., when racist flyers were being distributed

in different communities — in such a beautiful, multicultural

province.

I was quite concerned, as a person who takes a lot of passion on

this issue, a person who has always talked about racism very, very

openly. I remember organizing a rally, in the fall of 2016, about this

hatred that was happening. I remember talking to people, and they said:

“Uh, no. It is not that big an issue. Maybe it is an issue south of the

border. Maybe it’s an issue in other parts of the world, but in Canada,

we are such a multicultural, peace-loving country. This is not an

issue.”

[10:05 a.m.]

Today I’d really hoped that they had been right. But we know how

this issue has become even more prominent in recent years. I just want

to give some stats:

“Recent data from the polling firm Angus Reid has shown that

Canadians are ‘alive to’ the threat of white supremacy in this country,

and figures from Statistics Canada found a sharp uptick in hate crimes

in recent years. Police-reported hate crime in Canada had been on the

rise for a few years before taking a sharp upswing in 2017, according to

the latest data from Statistics Canada.

“There were 2,073 reported incidents that year, up from 1,295 in

2014; 1,362 in 2015; and 1,409 in 2016. The biggest increases in 2017

were in crimes related to race, ethnicity and religion.

“Also, an opinion poll by Angus Reid showed that 88 percent of

Canadian respondents found prejudice between people of different races

and nationalities to be a cause for concern. Racism toward Indigenous

peoples concerned 79 percent of the respondents, and 70 percent were

concerned about anti-Semitism. In B.C., more respondents found

white-supremacist attitudes to be a cause for great concern.”

When I was doing my research for this statement and looked at

these statistics, I just don’t really have words for how I felt about

it. That’s one of the reasons I’m making this statement today, because

it is a concern. We all need to be very, very concerned.

What happened in Christchurch — we cannot see that as an isolated

incident. We know that globally, we are seeing the phenomenon of hatred,

especially hatred against our Muslim brothers and sisters in the form of

Islamophobia, but also hatred in the form of homophobia and

anti-Semitism. Also, hatred against immigrants in general has been on

the rise. If we want to say that it’s just targeted at one community, we

are basically not addressing the real issue. If I’m not a Muslim and I’m

not being attacked, that does not mean that it might not happen to me

tomorrow.

Another very serious thing came to light just in recent months. We

had a very important function, a South Asian community event that

happened in Surrey, which happens every year. That is our big Vaisakhi

celebration. This year, at the Vaisakhi celebration in Surrey, more than

500,000 people participated. It was a very, very good event. I think all

walks of people participated in it.

Something that was very concerning came to light that evening.

Vaisakhi happened on April 20, and there were some Facebook posts that

came out, using some threats, like: “Having such a crowd, what a

pressure cooker bomb could have done in that crowd.” I’m very glad that

it was taken so seriously by members of the community, but I also want

to applaud the member for Delta North for reaching out to the Surrey

RCMP, and I really want to applaud the Surrey RCMP for taking very

strong action as well.

Just after that, on April 27, we saw a report coming out of the

Globe and Mail , a national daily, which talked about the

rise of the far-right in Canada. The report says about these

people:

“They come from all walks of life. They are tradesmen, soldiers, a

student teacher, a financial analyst, an aspiring lawyer, among others,

and they are in every province, in communities large and small. They

gather on the Internet to strategize and seek pathways into mainstream

politics. They are anti-Semitic, anti-immigrant, Islamophobic, sexist

and racist. They are young and radicalized. They are the new far-right

in Canada.

[10:10 a.m.]

“The Globe and Mail has obtained a trove of 150,000

messages posted between February 2017 and early 2018 that reveal the

private communications of a loosely aligned….”

Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Member.

T. Wat: As the opposition critic for multiculturalism, it is my honour to

respond to this very important statement put forth by the member for

Surrey–Green Timbers.

Charlottesville, Quebec City, Christchurch, Pittsburgh — these

four amazing cities are united by one harrowing point. They all have

been sites of violence perpetrated by the so-called alt-right. This

reactionary movement has brought together some of the worst elements of

a political force: white supremacists, violent misogynists,

anti-Semitism — lunatics that were normally considered so marginal and

so few that we thought we would never have to seriously consider them as

a political force.

Yet in some countries, like Germany, Sweden, Greece and, most

recently, Spain, parties influenced by these movements have gained seats

in parliament. These parties generally, though not always, tone down the

blatant racism, anti-Semitism and Islamophobia common to the movement.

But they still signal to their supporters that they have not abandoned

their ideals and push for policies that would drastically limit legal

immigration and would prevent public expressions of cultures not

considered to be appropriate by the movement.

The alt-right stands for everything we don’t stand for. They want

to spread hatred and mistrust; we want love and understanding. They want

to go backwards; we want to move ahead. B.C. has long been proud to be a

multicultural society. As the walls of this House know, we have taken

responsibility for our failings in the past. Most important to me was

the formal apology to Chinese Canadians issued by the previous

government in 2014 for injustices they had suffered at the hands of more

close-minded governments.

It bears mentioning that multiculturalism, though rallied against

by the alt-right, contains so many facets and opportunities to learn and

understand the world and people around us. One of these types of

teachings is that of traditional Chinese Confucian culture, which values

harmony, family and respect for elders and teachers in the community. In

Confucian thinking, harmony refers to a society where everyone fulfils

their responsibilities and creates a harmonious situation where the

whole country prospers.

Modern Chinese society tries to maintain harmony between humankind

and nature, between people and society, between members of different

communities and between mind and body. These teachings, though

interpreted differently over centuries, mean that someone bent on being

unharmonious, like members of the alt-right and their creed, stand in

the way of prosperity and growth as people, as a nation and as

communities — persons who seek to coexist harmoniously with all others.

That is why the alt-right movement is so wrong. By its very basis, it is

unharmonious.

We need to fight for and strengthen our belief that Canada should

be a multicultural society that exists harmoniously. We need to support

and stand up for people who are targeted by members of the alt-right. We

need to instil in our young people values of a society that values

diversity and multiple points of view. If we do this, we will be able to

keep this menace at bay. We owe it to our families, our friends, our

co-workers and neighbours to do just that.

I look forward to the member’s response.

R. Singh: I really would like to thank the member for Richmond North Centre

for her take on this very serious issue. I totally agree with her that

we, as a society, need to take action to deal with this

issue.

[10:15 a.m.]

When I was doing this statement, my intentions were, obviously, to

tell about the stats and about the issue that we are facing but also

what we, as leaders, need to do to face this and to help prevent this

kind of movement and this kind of hatred, which is being spread in our

own province as well. Experts also say that facing systemic racism

head-on can help stop it.

I’m really glad for the measures that world leaders have taken.

Especially, I really want to say a few words about the Prime Minister of

New Zealand, Jacinda Ardern — her stance and her message of unity and

solidarity that she gave after the Christchurch attack. She has also

rallied all the world leaders to…. She wants Facebook, Google, Twitter

that is being put on line.

If it comes to our province…. I’m really glad of the stance of our

government and what we are doing by establishing the Human Rights

Commission, which was missing from B.C. for so many years. We know that

education is the key role. A lot of times when these things happen, it

is coming out of ignorance, when young minds get lured by discontent, by

the on-line rhetoric, the white-supremacist rhetoric that is being put

on line. We really need to guide them and educate them properly. We need

to work together and not have this kind of hate against any

community.

Really, I’m very thankful that we have the….

Whereas we have the

world leaders like Jacinda, we have the leaders here in Canada, too,

with the statements that came from the Canadian Prime Minister, the

opposition leader and also the NDP leader. They are very significant in

these times — especially the statement given by our Premier, John

Horgan, after the Christchurch attack.

Deputy Speaker: No names, Member. No names.

Continue.

R. Singh: Okay. I’m sorry. By the Premier of the province — the way he

talked about Islamophobia and white supremacy and said that they have no

role in our province.

Deputy Speaker: Now you can conclude.

R. Singh: Also, we are living in a very, very beautiful province, and we

have to keep it.

VAPING

T. Stone: This morning it gives me a great deal of pleasure to rise and to

speak in this House, again, about the emerging public health challenge

that we see in our province and, indeed, we’re seeing right across North

America. That is the rapid increase in vaping or e-cigarette use amongst

our youth. As everyone in this House knows, e-cigarettes, or vaping, as

it’s called by many, is an emerging public health issue, particularly as

it relates to youth.

Now, I want to start off by being very clear here that I do

recognize, and I think my colleagues do recognize — I think most British

Columbians do recognize — that there is a role for e-cigarette use as a

smoking cessation tool for adults who are trying to stop traditional

smoking. There is no question about that. The problem, however, is that

we have estimates that suggest that upwards of 30 percent of our youth

in grades ten through 12 in our middle and high schools here in British

Columbia are engaging in vaping on a regular basis.

The stories that I heard prior to the private member’s bill I

introduced a number of weeks ago, and the stories I have heard since,

are quite telling. I have heard from many parents. I have heard from

many teachers. I have heard from administrators. I have heard from the

B.C. Teachers Federation, which was pleased to publicly come out and

support the kinds of changes that I’m proposing in the private member’s

bill which I introduced to this House.

[10:20 a.m.]

Everyone is united in wanting to do more to protect the health of

our children. The simple reality is this. While we have done a very good

job in this province at really driving down tobacco use, particularly

amongst youth, we see a very significant increase in vaping or

e-cigarette use amongst our youth. In the United States, the U.S.

Surgeon General just last December declared e-cigarette use, with

respect to youth in the United States, as an emerging public health

epidemic.

Now, more troubling is the reality that recent studies, including

one just a couple of weeks ago here in Canada, suggested that most

teens, most of our youth who are engaged in e-cigarette use, aren’t

aware of the fact that these products, more often than not, include

highly addictive nicotine.

The reality of this fast-growing, fast-emerging industry is that

these products, these e-cigarettes — pod mods, as they’re now called —

are very sleek. They’re very small. They’re easy to conceal. They don’t

have any smell. You can get customized skins for your e-cigarette, your

vaporizer, just like you can get a customized skin for a cell phone. The

juice that is used in these products is highly, highly addictive but

also comes in kid-friendly flavours like bubble gum and cotton candy and

melon and cream.

All of the above makes e-cigarette use, vaping, very attractive to

our youth. So more must be done to keep these products out of the hands

of our kids, all the while recognizing that these products do play a

role as a smoking-cessation tool for adults.

The bill that I introduced weeks ago would ban the sale of

flavoured products. At the very least, I hope that government here in

British Columbia and the federal government will move on banning those

sweet, dessert-type flavours, those kid-friendly flavours which study

after study after study indicate are not the flavours that are chosen by

adults. These are flavours that are very popular with youth.

Secondly, we do believe that we need to limit the retail access to

these products — make it more difficult for our kids to be able to

access these tools. My bill proposed tougher retail controls by limiting

the sales to vape shops, tobacco stores and pharmacies. Is that a

perfect solution? No, it’s not. But again, it’s an attempt to try and

restrict access to these products, to keep them out of the hands of our

kids. My bill provided tougher penalties for non-compliance with all of

the above.

In addition to the measures in my bill, we do believe that there

needs to be more action on the part of the federal government. We are

cautiously optimistic that the federal government is in the process of

consultations to develop new regulations, particularly as they relate to

advertising of vaping-related products where these products might be

seen by youth. This will include ads at both physical and on-line points

of sale where youth are allowed to shop as well as mass platforms like

billboards and public transit.

The folks who are selling these products wouldn’t be allowed to

air within 30 minutes of any television or radio show meant for youth

accessible to youth. There would also be a requirement for health

warnings, regardless of whether the product includes

nicotine.

The federal government is looking at the prevalence of the use of

these products with our youth and what more can be done to keep them out

of the hands of our youth. Again, the challenge is that things tend to

move fairly slowly in government in general, particularly at the federal

level. So while we’re encouraged by the activity there, we are hopeful

that the provincial government here in British Columbia will take some

interim steps to focus on this.

I will quickly run out of time here. I’ll have a few more minutes

after the next speaker. I do want to talk for a moment about the need

for more resources to also be invested in programs in our schools to

focus on prevention, to focus on supporting youth when they come up

against that judgment call, that decision point on whether to engage in

the use of these products or not.

There are some very good examples of these kinds of prevention

programs, like Preventure, a program that has been piloted in a number

of schools, particularly up in Vernon, and has resulted in some pretty

significant declines in the usage of these kinds of products. We also

would be calling for some additional support to help our youth who have

become addicted to nicotine. I’ll have more to say about that in a

moment.

[10:25 a.m.]

B. D’Eith: I did want to thank the member for Kamloops–​South Thompson

for bringing this very important issue to the House. I really believe

that this is an area where I can see a great deal of potential

cooperation between all three parties, especially in relation to vaping

products for children and youth.

This is a relatively new phenomenon, and it means that the law has

to evolve with the changing times. I know that quite a lot of work was

done — including by the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions, who is

in the House right now — in 2016, around flavoured

cigarettes.

Vaping is a very similar issue, because of the use, as the member

said, of flavoured juices that are clearly meant to entice young people

to start vaping. The problem, of course, is that children and young

people are getting products on line and from non-approved sources. So

they have no idea, really, what’s in these e-liquids, whether it’s

chemicals or nicotine. That’s very alarming to me — to think that B.C.

youth are potentially inhaling harmful products that they don’t even

know are there. In addition to this, the addition of nicotine makes many

e-liquids highly addictive, and many young users of vape products have

no idea that there’s actually nicotine in their product.

Of course, as the member said, vape was originally sold as a way

for smokers to wean off cigarettes. As a tool to battle this, in the

arsenal of trying to get people to quit, it has actually been a very

positive thing. The problem is that vaping can do the exact opposite for

young people because it’s the perfect delivery system for nicotine.

What’s happening is that vaping is becoming a gateway to actually

smoking cigarettes.

This is exactly what happened to one of my sons. We discouraged

him from vaping — he and his friends were all vaping — but he was

convinced it was safe and did it anyway. For a while that’s what he did,

but then he started smoking cigarettes. While we’ve got him to quit the

cigarettes, he’s still vaping.

I think that in this day and age — with everything that we know

about smoking, in particular — to have something in the market that’s

actually leading kids to smoke cigarettes is really unacceptable. I know

the problem is of course that kids, the teenagers, think they’re

invincible at this point. I had to remind my children that my

grandmother and my aunt are both not with us today because they smoked

cigarettes. They both ended up having ten to 20 years shaved off their

lives. They didn’t even get to meet my grandmother, their

great-grandmother, because of this.

Also, because it’s a relatively new phenomenon, I think a lot more

work has to be done to study vaping. If you listen to the tobacco

companies…. I know that on the Finance Committee, we heard from some

tobacco lobbyists, and they were really excited about how safe vaping

was. Of course, the next day the Cancer Society came in and said the

exact opposite. I think I’ll tend to side with the Canadian Cancer

Society on this, and other jurisdictions that are showing that vape is

really potentially hazardous.

Of course, vaping actually isn’t allowed on school grounds right

now, but that’s an enforcement issue.

What do we need to do to get young people to stop vaping? Well, I

think education is really important. I know that the new physical and

health education curriculum actually allows teachers to lead lesson

plans and have discussions and engage students in this discussion. I

think that’s really important. I think, as the member said, that we do

need to work together as a Legislature and include young people,

principals, vice-principals, the B.C. Teachers Federation, the

Confederation of Parent Advisory Councils, for example, local

communities and the students themselves to ensure that we deal with this

head-on.

Now, we do have the laws and regulations from 2016, but this is an

evolving matter. It’s my understanding, from talking to the Minister of

Health, that the federal government is now reviewing this and is going

to be proposing some changes to legislation and regulation. Once that’s

done, the Minister of Health will review the present provincial

legislation and regulations.

I wanted to really thank the member for bringing this up. It’s

something that hits me at home, hits many of us around our communities.

I really appreciate him bringing this statement to the House today. He

certainly has my support in terms of trying to tackle this issue

head-on.

[10:30 a.m.]

T. Stone: I do want to thank the member for Maple Ridge–​Mission for

his very thoughtful comments on this topic. If we can’t all unite behind

strategies and initiatives to best protect the health of our kids, then

I don’t know what we can unite on. I’m very pleased to hear his comments

on behalf of him and his colleagues.

I was indicating, in my previous remarks, that more resources are

needed to invest in prevention programs, to invest in awareness programs

in our schools. There are a number of pilot programs that have proven to

be highly effective. The problem is that they are only pilots in a very

limited number of our middle and high schools across this

province.

One such program, known as Preventure, is a program that is all

about focusing on that link between addictions and risk factors. This

program works by having our youth self-report their personality style.

Then those students who identify with one of four key traits are invited

to a workshop session where they learn how their personality affects

their behaviour. Those four key personality traits are impulsivity…. The

second would be thrill seeking or sensation seeking, the third is

sensitivity to anxiety, and the fourth is hopelessness. This program has

been in place in Vernon for a couple of years now and has actually

resulted in a pretty significant decline in a range of addictions in the

schools where it’s been deployed.

We need resources to invest in these kinds of programs. In

addition to that, we need more resources to support our youth who are

already addicted. I have heard from a number of parents who have said:

“It’s great that you’re focusing on doing more to prevent the use of

e-cigarettes with our youth, but what about our youth who are already

addicted?”

We need more resources available, particularly focused on youth —

resources like the smoking cessation clinic at Vancouver General

Hospital, which does have an accepted treatment program. That’s nicotine

replacement therapy. The government does pay for 12 weeks of a nicotine

patch. That was actually implemented under our former government, back

in 2011.

The problem is that the usage of e-cigarettes amongst our youth is

far outpacing the capacity of these clinics to actually help our youth.

So we need more clinics. We need more front-line resources.

Last but not least, industry needs to step up here. Industry needs

to step up and speak with one voice. Industry needs to be more

proactive. Industry needs to look at tougher age verification technology

for their on-line sites to prevent sales on line to kids. Industry needs

to step up, like a number of companies, such as Walmart and Walgreens

and Rite Aid in the United States, that have made the decision to stop

selling flavoured e-cigarette products to youth.

If we all pull together — government, parents and industry — we

will tackle this emerging public health epidemic for the good of our

children for generations to come.

LIVING WAGE

R. Leonard: I rise today to speak about measuring the success of our

government’s actions to make life more affordable for the people of

British Columbia. We all hear facts and figures about how much funding

goes to support various policies and programs, and other numbers are

tracked. But what really matters to people who have been struggling for

a generation to make ends meet and to those who have fallen further and

further behind is whether they are experiencing a more affordable

life.

So it’s with great satisfaction that last week we heard that

independent, third-party economists at the Canadian Centre for Policy

Alternatives, also known as the CCPA, attributed two of our government’s

biggest actions to the first decline in the living wage in 11 years.

Firstly, this government’s historic investments in child care and,

secondly, the 50 percent reduction in medical services premiums are

credited with playing a major

part in making life more affordable for

young families.

In the Comox Valley, the living wage went down 8 percent to $15.28

an hour. But what does this mean? What is a living wage? It is one

measuring tool to assess affordability, and the CCPA has been

calculating it since 2008.

The calculation begins with determining the expenses of everyday

living. It is region-specific, because some costs, like rent, vary from

place to place. The list is comprehensive but modest and includes

shelter — that’s rent — utilities, Internet, communications and even

home contents insurance. Then there’s food, clothing and footwear,

transportation, child care, medical and dental health care, parents’

education and other household expenses.

[10:35 a.m.]

I did say it was modest. It doesn’t include saving for retirement

or for your kids’ future education or owning a home. After expenses are

all added up, then taxes, credits, deductions and subsidies are taken

into account to determine the living wage. That living wage is the

hourly amount that two full-time working parents each need to earn in

order to support those basic needs for a family of four, including one

child age four and the other age seven.

Why this family unit? Well, it’s representative because in British

Columbia, more than three-quarters of families with children are headed

by couples, and over half of them have two or more kids. It’s important

to note that just over 50 percent of B.C.’s children living in poverty

live in two-parent families. The numbers really are staggering when you

consider that 40 percent of people living below the poverty line are

working. No matter how you slice it, as the CCPA report says: “The story

of child poverty is very much a story of low wages.”

The CCPA economists report that the decrease to the living wage is

due in large part to our government’s recent investments in child care,

which are saving families thousands of dollars this year. We are moving

in the right direction to make life more affordable.

Courtney from the Comox Valley, where there is a city named

Courtenay, is a single mom with two children age five and under. She

says spending less on daycare means she’s able to spend more money on

children’s activities and to save for the future. She shared how she has

friends who were on the fence about even having children simply because

of the expense of child care.

Lisa L. expressed relief over family budgeting when her child care

centre became one of the prototypes for child care that will cost no

more than $200 a month per child. With one parent working full-time and

another part-time, she said, raising two children, paying a mortgage,

bills, everyday expenses and groceries all add up quickly. “Since the

prototype program has begun, we have felt less stressed about the

monthly budgeting. We have a little extra money for savings, fixing

something or a fun family outing.”

This year’s report that the living wage went down by $1.31 an hour

in the Comox Valley and by similar amounts in other communities

throughout B.C. is welcome news. Despite increasing costs of living on

many fronts, like rents up as much as 4 percent, heating and electricity

up, gas and insurance up, food and clothing up…. But as the CCPA report

suggests, the savings from this government’s new child care program more

than offset the other rising family expenses.

As the CCPA report says, the core takeaway from this year’s

calculation is that public investments to improve child care

affordability are making a difference in helping families with young

children, whether cost increases in other areas. After a generation —

basically, for the first time in living memory for young low-income and

middle-income families — people are beginning to experience a bit more

affordable living and, with it, some freedom from the stresses of

strained family budgets.

Karen, an early childhood educator from the Comox Valley, can now

afford to upgrade her education, and she and her husband are saving to

buy a home for their family of four.

The CCPA report also credits the 50 percent reduction in MSP

premiums as contributing to the reduction in the living wage. We know

that after 16 years of unbridled rising costs, our government has just

begun its work to put people first. The full elimination of MSP premiums

next January will be one of the biggest middle-class cuts in B.C.

history and will save families up to $1,800 every year.

We are introducing the child opportunity benefit too. Families

with kids up to the age of 19 will have more wiggle room in their

budgets.

We can’t control all living expenses, but we can make a

difference. Our government is making different choices, choices to make

life more affordable, and giving people opportunities that they didn’t

dare to dream about.

L. Reid: I’m pleased to respond this morning to the statement put forward

by the member for Courtenay-Comox. The living wage definition — this one

comes from Living Wage Canada:

“A living wage is not the same as minimum wage, which is the legal

minimum for all employers. The living wage sets a higher standard. A

living wage reflects what earners in a family need to bring home, based

on the actual costs of living in a specific community.

[10:40 a.m.]

“The living wage is a call to private and public sector employees to

pay wages to both direct and contract employees that are sufficient to

provide the basics to families with children. A living wage enables

working families to have sufficient income to cover reasonable costs;

promotes social inclusion; supports healthy child development

principles; ensures that families are not under severe financial stress;

engenders significant, wide-ranging community support; and is a vehicle

for promoting the benefits of social programs such as infant development

and supported child development.”

Now contrast these points with the reality of the recent decision

to treat workers differently in British Columbia. Equity: the quality of

being fair and impartial. Equity of treatment. Fairness.

Fair-mindedness. Justice. Equitableness. Fair play. Instead of fairness,

this House has been subjected to a denial of equity — in fact, a blatant

defiance, defence of inequity. The government tells us the recent

government decision to apply low-wage redress to unionized employees is

not political. They’ve certainly intimated that on many occasions. This

decision is a departure from 12 years of past practice.

As discussed, this decision will have a devastating effect on the

Richmond Society for Community Living, the people we serve and their

staff. Our SCL has approximately 40 direct line staff that are

non-union. The majority of our non-union staff work with children and

families and early intervention services. Recruitment and retention of

qualified staff is a chronic and serious problem for community and other

social services organizations. This recent decision will exacerbate an

already critical problem and create tension within organizations and

between social service agencies. This will impact children and families

that rely on service.

You noted earlier that I certainly made the point clearly that a

living wage is supposed to support healthy child development principles.

That’s what is the stated definition.

Our infant development and supported child development programs

serve over 750 children and families every year. A loss of just one

consultant to a neighbouring agency will mean a loss of service to 50

families in Richmond, in my riding. This decision will impact social

service organizations across the province. Approximately 600 agencies

will not receive the low-wage redress for some or all of their

employees. The total number of employees that will receive the low-wage

redress is approximately 13,000, compared to more than 14,000 community

and social service employees that will receive the low-wage

redress.

What would you do with 800 additional dollars in your pocket, Mr.

Speaker? Save for something special? What could you buy with $800?

Something for your mom? Something for your kids? The answer is that it

would be your choice. Since April 1, infant development workers and

supported child development workers in our province have 800 fewer

dollars in their pockets than their unionized counterparts. They

absolutely deserve better. There is no question.

I believe that hypocrisy is alive and well on the government

benches. In fact, I’m amazed that they have the gall to talk about

living wages when they are reducing wages for thousands of workers in

British Columbia today.

R. Leonard: Thank you to the member for Richmond South Centre for her

comments. I’d just like to add that the living wage calculation was

spawned after the contracts of health workers were ripped up and people

were laid off in the thousands. So this is a really important aspect of

how we look at the world of affordability.

In outlining how the living wage is calculated, a vivid picture

emerges about the challenges facing low-wage families. Imagine not

having enough money to afford a birthday party for your child or pay for

dental care — and, as in the case in 2008, when we saw families ripped

apart. Imagine not having children because you don’t see yourself ever

earning enough to give them that birthday party, let alone send them to

college.

As I said, the CCPA has been calculating the living wage since

2008. Each year, up until this latest report, the living wage went up —

up and up — while more and more people fell further and further behind

and the number of children and families living in poverty grew. The

previous government heard the call for nine years, yet did nothing.

Child care costs exceeded inflation, MSPs doubled and the policies that

boosted the top 2 percent never trickled down to the families that

needed it the most.

This government’s commitment to making life affordable began to

take shape when we took office less than two years ago. This current

trend downward in the living wage shows how our government’s actions are

beginning to help people, and when people have a little economic

security, communities and employers benefit, as does the economy as a

whole.

[10:45 a.m.]

Despite working hard, not having enough money to buy essentials or

pay all of the bills takes its toll on workers and on their children.

Low-income earners suffer stress two times more often than higher

earners. This results in poorer health and higher health care costs.

Poorer health leads to absenteeism from work and reduced productivity.

Lifting wages, then, is good for business in the long term.

Let’s not forget that children from low-income families suffer.

Working harder means more time away from the kids, adding to everyone’s

stress. Children are less likely to do well in school, will have poorer

health outcomes as they grow up and are less likely to do well in the

workforce. We need well-trained workers, and we would do well to make

sure our children grow up to be bright contributors to our future

economy. And let’s not forget that small business owners are workers

too, so providing for affordable child care and reducing and eliminating

regressive fees and taxes support them too.

Without the measures we’ve taken to reduce the costs of child care

and MSP, the living wage would have gone up significantly. Rather than

going down 8 percent, it would have, in reverse, risen that

amount.

Seeing the dial move to reduce the living wage is good for people

and good for business. There’s a way to go, but we are on the right

path.

MY FIRST JOB

I. Paton: I’ll try and keep this non-partisan, as are the rules on Monday

morning.

The title of my statement this morning is going to be on first

jobs. I rise in the House today to do a bit of reminiscing. Everyone

remembers their first job and how these opportunities not only helped

them buy that new bike or pay for college but also played an important

part in developing their character and work ethic. These benefits are

life-long, and I’m sure that many of us here today think of their first

job as being the beginning of their road to this chamber, actually. I

know I do.

I’m sure everyone in this House likely knows by now that I’m a

third-generation farmer. I’m still living on the farm that I was born on

62 years ago in Delta. As a kid growing up with my grandfather and my

dad, we learned to do chores in the morning and at night, at milking

time. I learned to drive a pickup truck at age 12. And of course, I

learned to drive a tractor at a young age as well. I also learned how to

milk a cow when I was just eight or nine years old. When you grow up on

a farm, your parents always make you work.

In my family, we were never, ever told or allowed to collect

unemployment insurance. It was: “Get out there and find yourself a

job.”

The whole family would head out into the field to help with the

harvest. I remember this vividly, and I think many B.C. farm families

would have similar stories. I see this many times, travelling Canada, in

the dairy farming industry in Quebec and Ontario. They’re all very small

family farms, and the entire family would be involved. The kids would

get home from school, they would help with chores, and they would help

with milking. They didn’t have the money for hired help in Quebec and

Ontario, with some of these small dairy farms that only milk 35 or 40

cows.

A few years ago a friend of mine moved about an hour out of

Saskatoon from Abbotsford and started a dairy farm in Saskatoon. We were

there for a tour on FCM. I took the mayor of Delta and a few of my

fellow councillors out to my friend’s dairy farm.

The school bus came down this long, dusty road to their farm about

an hour out of Saskatoon, and three young kids that belonged to my

friend got off the school bus. We were looking around the dairy farm,

and it was getting around milking time. All of a sudden, these three

young kids came to the barn. They quickly got out of their school

clothes and put their books away. All three of them were in the barn

with their boots on, ready to do chores and get the cows up for milking

time. It goes to show you the benefits of young people working,

especially in the agriculture industry.

When I was nine — this will be hard to believe; not too many

people remember this — my first job was at McClary Stock Yards in

Vancouver. There used to be a bridge called the Fraser Street Bridge

that went from No. 5 Road over to Fraser Street. In the ’60s, in the

’50s, there was a stock yard that sold cattle on the Fraser Street edge

of the river in Vancouver. My dad was the auctioneer. At age nine, in

the summertime, I would go. I got a job with a cane to herd the cattle

that came out of the auction ring and pen them in the correct pen for

whoever happened to be the buyer of those cattle.

It may seem like a lot of responsibility for a nine-year-old, and

it was, but that did not mean that I was incapable of doing it. The

pressure to do a good job ensured that I learned the trade quickly. I

got paid a few bucks, and that got me on my way and got me my first

paycheque, chasing cattle down the alley at McClary Stock Yards in

Vancouver.

I also started mowing lawns and continued to help with picking

potatoes, milking cows for the neighbours and, on our own farm, driving

the tractor and throwing a lot of hay bales when I was a young person.

Not exactly glamorous, but everyone has to start somewhere.

[10:50 a.m.]

Most importantly, these jobs gave me my first impression of the

importance of hard work. It also gave me the first taste of the rewards,

both material and more abstract, of a job well done. In my teens, I

started to expand my horizons as bit. Some of the positions I held

during this time included a gas station attendant. Back in those days,

it was full service. Two of us would run out to a car. One would fill up

the gas tank, and the other would open the hood and check the oil.

That’s what you did back in the days at full-attended gas

stations.

I was a playground supervisor for Delta Parks and Recreation. I

worked in a parts warehouse in Vancouver on 1st Avenue for General

Motors. I worked as a boatbuilder on the Fraser River, building

wooden-hulled fish boats for Wahl’s Boatbuilding. I worked at Crown

Zellerbach cardboard plant on the edge of the Fraser River, and I also

was a golf course greenskeeper, among other things that I

did.

When you’re a teenager growing up on a farm, there’s only one

thing that you want. You want to make some money, and you want to buy

your own pickup truck. These jobs allowed me to do just that. People

talk about intergenerational divides, but I think buying that first car

or pickup truck is still something that many teenagers long for. Solid,

stable jobs, such as many of those available to young people in the

agriculture sector, allow them to do that.

I held all of these positions while continuing to help out my

family on the farm, my own farm. My jobs never interfered with my

studies. If anything, it actually helped them. Having a summer job not

only gave me spending money, but it also helped me save for purchasing

my first livestock and eventually got me enough to enter university. I

don’t think there was a year during high school or university that I did

not work during the summer. In my mind, that was what summertime was

for. While this was my story, I’m sure we could go around the chamber

and hear many similar tales from similar MLAs in this

building.

I remember graduating from UBC in 1979, and I couldn’t get a

full-time teaching job. So the first offer I got was milking cows.

Having just gotten married in 1979, and just out of university, I went

off and milked cows for six months until I got my first teaching job. I

taught school for a grand total of about one year, and I decided that

I’d rather go back to the family farm and the family farm auction

business.

My point is clear. All of these experiences played a fundamental

role in equipping me with valuable life skills and helping me build a

strong character. They teach self-worth and self-respect as well as

independence and responsibility.

Another interesting job I had growing up was joining the local

volunteer fire department. As a kid growing up in the farming area of

east Delta, it was kind of a rite of passage that you would join the

volunteer fire department. It wasn’t for the money. I think we got paid

$16 per call-out, whether the call-out was for half an hour or for a

burning barn that had us out for 12 hours. But I learned to drive a fire

truck. I learned to be responsible, how to work with older people in the

fire department, and I grew up very fast, facing many horrible car

accidents along Highway 99. I saw some of the grimmest things you’d ever

want to see as a 17-year-old on the volunteer fire

department.

Now, of course, we need to ensure that youth are safe at work. We

wouldn’t want to be sending 15-year-olds with no training into the woods

as tree fallers. If there is something to laud about the culture of many

jobs today, it’s that the importance of safety is recognized by

employers.

S. Malcolmson: I am getting very nostalgic here. My first job was as a goat

milker. I have very clear memories of the old alarm clock in my granny’s

cabin going off, the feeling of importance. I was up before anybody

else, walking through the meadow with my rubber boots and getting all of

the dew and bugs and flowers on them and arriving a bedraggled — I don’t

know — ten-year-old, nine-year-old. As long as I grabbed Gretchen the

goat by her one remaining horn and kind of arm-wrestled her into where

we needed to go, the rest of the goats would follow. It was a big

responsibility and a real sense of power, probably for the first time in

my life, and no harm came of it.

So when the members of the Nanaimo, Duncan and District Labour

Council came to meet with me a couple of weeks ago to talk about kids

who are harmed in the workplace, I was blown away. In 2003, the age of

work was reduced to 12 here in the province. That has put kids into

risky workplaces.

[10:55 a.m.]

This is what I heard from the labour council in Nanaimo. They said

that 12-year-olds can work now in most industries, including food

service, accommodation, farming, construction, even manufacturing. This

is a serious health and safety risk for these young people. Commercial

equipment is dangerous, not appropriately sized for children, and safe

operation requires expensive training and supervision.

These are not conditions in which our kids should be working, and

doing this type of work has real consequences. Kids are getting hurt.

They say: “Since 2003, over 2,000 children under the age of 15 have

claimed work-related health care costs due to injuries” — 2,000 kids

since 2003. “This number only reflects the number of reported injuries.

We know that many injuries go unreported, especially where the employer

is the child’s own parent.”

They went on to say: “The government must do more to protect

children by prioritizing their schooling and health and safety, not

work. When youth are ready to go to work, there need to be rigorous

rules in place to ensure that they are protected from injury and death.”

That’s a quote from the Nanaimo and District Labour Council.

So I’m really pleased that our government has brought in

protections. The legislation that was tabled just last week, or two

weeks ago, will broadly raise the age that a child may work from 12 to

16, and will better protect the safety of 16- to 18-year-olds by putting

in place tough restrictions on the types of hazardous work that they can

be asked to perform.

Now, we heard from people, of course, that younger people want to

work, that 14- and 15-year-olds want to be able to participate in the

workforce when it’s safe, and I want that, too. Under the proposed

changes, which are now making their way through the House under our

Labour Minister, 14- and 15-year-olds will need parental consent to do

only certain types of light work, which will be laid out in the

regulations.

These changes are about employer-employee relationships; they’re

not about family chores. So 14- and 15-year-old children will be allowed

to do certain forms of light work that are safe for their health and

development, like stocking shelves in a convenience store and

babysitting, obviously. A lot of people made all their allowance doing

babysitting. Other forms of work will require a permit from the director

for anyone under 16.

That’s, again, to make sure that there are extra layers of concern

over anybody that thinks that they themselves are capable of doing that

harder work but are not in a position to. The legislation also maintains

the existing regulations that allow children to work in recorded and

live entertainment — again, as long as they’ve got parental consent.

That’s that extra piece that’s so important.

Another piece of protection that supports young workers, and that

I was so glad to see, was recognizing that servers working on tips don’t

actually get to take those tips home all the time. Those are

hard-earned. I know that a lot of young folks working in the service

industry, at any young age, rely on them so much. This is, again, a new

regulation that is embedded in the legislation. Employers will be

prohibited from withholding tips or other gratuities from workers,

deducting amounts from them or requiring them to be turned over to the

employer. Tip pooling, of course, is still allowed, but it has to be

done in a fair way.

I. Paton: I thank the member for her response. I have talked about the

importance of first jobs to me personally, but I think it is also needed

to talk about how the employment of young people provides a net good for

society. Work provides something meaningful for youth to do, something

they can be proud of that makes them feel like they’re contributing to

their community and something that rewards them for a job well

done.

We should also recognize that keeping busy also helps deter youth

from getting into trouble. On the Lower Mainland, I’ve seen gang

activity continue to grow, and I think it’s troubling that gangsters

often reach out to and recruit young people — some in their teens, some

even younger than that.

Many of the youth who join these gangs are vulnerable. Perhaps

they’re missing some connection in their lives and find it in this

group, which has made them feel like a somebody. They’re offered false

friendship, money, cars and things that seem glamorous on the surface.

Before they know it, they’re doing things they never thought they would

do and engaged in a criminal lifestyle that’s much easier to get into

than to get out of.

[11:00 a.m.]

I think we want to ensure that youth are not restricted from

opportunities to work, to keep busy and to better themselves. Let’s help

find them hobbies or work that they enjoy and that would help them make

money honestly. That would give them a better way to make a name for

themselves. It’s good for them, and it’s good for our

communities.

In closing, I always speak up for the agriculture sector. It is

the largest employer of youth in our province and provides well-paying

jobs that keep young people busy and engaged.

[J. Isaacs in the chair.]

These young people are able to learn how to work the land in a

safe and responsible manner, how to tend to animals and how to run a

business, often their own family’s. They develop so many life skills

that you just can’t learn when you’re sitting in a classroom.

Our schools and educators do a fantastic job, day in and day out,

but it’s my belief that when youth also have the opportunity to be part

of the working world, to get their hands dirty and to earn for

themselves, the benefits are tremendous for our young people.

Hon. J. Darcy: I would ask that the House consider proceeding with Motion 13

standing in the name of the member for Powell River–Sunshine

Coast.

Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, unanimous consent of the House is required to

proceed with Motion 13 without disturbing the priorities of the motions

preceding it on the order paper.

Leave granted.

Private Members’ Motions

MOTION 13 — OPPOSITION TO

CONVERSION

THERAPY

N. Simons: It’s a pleasure to be able to stand here and propose the

motion:

[Be it resolved that this House affirm its opposition to the

practice of conversion therapy for lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, questioning,

transgender, queer, two-spirited, intersex or any other minor.]

That, of course, refers to minor persons. I think that this

motion…. We’ve seen legislation across North America, Europe and other

countries that specifically prohibits the practice of trying to change

the character of a young person through therapy. I’m kind of

disappointed, in a way, that this even has to be talked about, not

because it’s not an important issue but because I think…. What we know

as a society is we should be a little bit further past this. We

shouldn’t even be considering that this is even a

possibility.

We do see it happening in other jurisdictions. We see some cases

and a recent movie, in fact, Boy Erased , of this practice that

takes place, perhaps out of sight. That’s partly what this motion is

hoping to bring out. Is this occurring in British Columbia? If it is, it

shouldn’t be. If it is, it should be outright illegal. I don’t think any

regulatory body would allow their practitioners to participate in this

kind of activity.

I think it should be clear that it’s not only professional

counsellors that should not be engaged in this practice, but nobody

should be engaged in this practice. I’m looking forward to hearing

comments from others in this House, but I think that on the face of it,

when you’re a child growing up in our society, you should be encouraged

to live the most authentic being that you can be. That does not include

the removal of that person from their place of where they live, from

their comforts, in order to be told that there is something bad about

them.

We know, in our society now, that there is nothing wrong with

anyone if they’re expressing their identity — their gender identity,

their sexual identity. That should not be the subject of a discussion or

an effort to change, and that should be something that all children in

this province are protected from.

As a social worker, if I were to ever have found out that a child

was being required to undergo some sort of therapy to change their

identity, that would certainly involve further investigation on the part

of the social worker. The psychological health of a child is something

that we need to protect and something that we need to encourage, enhance

and support. Any therapy that could be considered conversion therapy

would have absolutely nothing but negative impacts on a child. In fact,

it would be a therapy to try to ensure that a young person live an

inauthentic life.

[11:05 a.m.]

As a legislator, as a human being, as a child, as a sibling of

many, as a god parent and as a person in this province, I would like it

to be quite clear that in British Columbia, like in other jurisdictions

that have made it explicitly so, this is not a practice that we can

affirm. In fact, it’s a practice that we would and should collectively

denounce as a problem, as bordering on abuse to a child if, in fact,

they’re subject to any effort from any adult to change who their

essential being is.

With that, I’m pleased to present and table this motion to the

House. I look forward to the comments of my colleagues.

J. Thornthwaite: I rise in this House to support the motion: “Be it resolved that

this House affirm its opposition to the practice of conversion therapy

for lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, questioning, transgender, queer,

two-spirited, intersex or any other minor.”

Conversion therapy is the pseudo-scientific practice of trying to

change an individual’s sexual orientation from homosexual or bisexual to

heterosexual. Medical, scientific and government organizations have

expressed concerns over the validity, efficacy and ethics of conversion

therapy.

In fact, the World Health Organization wrote in a 2012 paper that

reparative and conversion therapies have no medical indication and

represent a severe threat to the health and human rights of the affected

persons. They constitute unjustifiable practices that should be

denounced and subject to adequate sanctions and penalties. Similarly, I

might add, is female genital mutilation, another barbaric human

act.

Conversion therapy seems to suggest that any sexual orientation

other than heterosexuality is wrong and something needing to be fixed.

That is simply not true. Adolescence is a confusing time of uncertainty.

Bodies are changing, and hormone levels are fluctuating. The added

stress of navigating sexual orientation can have a detrimental effect on

the mental health of adolescents.

In these tumultuous times, youth should have access to support

systems and resources that help them navigate this difficult time. In

fact, we know that gay-straight alliances help contribute to a safer

school climate. The research from the Stigma and Resilience Among

Vulnerable Youth Centre at UBC’s School of Nursing determined that not

only do gay-straight alliances make schools safer for LGBTQ students but

also among straight students.

They should not be told that they are broken or that something is

wrong with them because of their sexual orientation. It’s a shame that

in 2019 we still have to have these discussions about what’s right or

wrong with regards to sexual orientation.

Unfortunately, history presents many examples of individuals being

punished for their sexual orientation. One prominent example includes

that of Alan Turing, as depicted by Benedict Cumberbatch in the 2014

film, The Imitation Game . I recommend everybody see it, if you

haven’t. Turing is credited as the father of computer science, cracking

codes made by the Germans’ seemingly unbreakable enigma machine during

the Second World War. The work done by Turing is overshadowed by the

fact that he was a closeted gay man in 1952, a time when being

homosexual was outlawed.

Turing’s fate takes a tragic turn when he is chemically castrated.

Peter Gajdics wrote, when he was spurring the whole idea that Vancouver

become the first Canadian city to ban conversion therapy…. He

said:

“Over six years, the doctor prescribed near fatal dosages of various

concurrent psychiatric medications. He directed me to ‘release my pain’

and to ‘feel my rage’ during prolonged sessions of primal scream

therapy. He injected me weekly with ketamine hydrochloride, an animal

anaesthetic, before ‘reparenting’ sessions, where I would lie in his lap

like a newborn baby so he could nurture me as my new ‘daddy.’ He even

used aversion therapy, exposing me to a stimulus while simultaneously

subjecting me to some sort of discomfort — all in an effort to…‘flip

over to the other side’ to my supposed ‘innate

heterosexuality.’”

Thankfully, in Canada, we have laws against discrimination based

on religion and gender or sexual orientation. I’m very proud that

during…. When we were in government, we brought forward improvements to

the human rights code to give specific identity to gender expression and

identity as well as introducing the SOGI policies in schools.

I also have spoken in this House about the trail-blazers at

Seycove Secondary on the international Day of Pink, the fact that they

have a rainbow crosswalk on their school grounds. I want to give credit

to teachers like Andrea Yeo. She has brought this issue to students in

North Vancouver to the forefront.

[11:10 a.m.]

In

summary, as a community, we need to continue to be

trail-blazers, to focus on acceptance and understanding. The rights of

the LGBTQ community are human rights, and we must not allow intolerance

to fester. We have to continue to speak out in the Legislature and

beyond in support of all of our LGBTQ citizens.

S. Furstenau: It gives me pleasure to join with my colleagues from both the

government and official opposition to speak in support of the motion:

“Be it resolved that this House affirm its opposition to the practice of

conversion therapy for lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, questioning,

transgender, queer, two-spirited, intersex or any other

minor.”

As pointed out by my colleague from the official opposition,

conversion therapy is the pseudo-scientific practice of trying to change

an individual’s sexual orientation from homosexual or bisexual to

heterosexual using psychological or spiritual interventions.

There is no reliable evidence that sexual orientation or gender

identity can be changed. Medical bodies overwhelmingly condemn the

practice, warning that conversion therapy practices are ineffective and

can be seriously harmful. Attempting to force somebody to change their

sexual orientation or gender identity, an integral part of who they are,

is associated with trauma, increased rates of suicide and significant

impacts on people’s mental health.

While it is believed this practice is, thankfully, uncommon in

British Columbia, there have been advertised sessions in the past few

years, and these types of “treatments” may still occur behind closed

doors. Our staff have spoken with people whose lives have been deeply

impacted by this, and the stories are heartbreaking.

I stand here today with people around the province resolute that

it is time for our province to take action to protect people from this

harmful practice and determined to bring us in line with many other

Canadian provinces who have shown leadership on this human rights issue.

Manitoba has partnered with Seniors and Active Living, regional health

authorities, health profession regulatory colleges and Manitoba Health

to ensure that conversion therapy has no place in their health care

system.

Ontario passed a landmark law banning conversion therapy on

lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender children and preventing medical

practitioners from billing OHIP for it.

The leader of the Nova Scotia Progressive Conservative Party

called for members of the House of Assembly to come together and ban

conversion therapy for youth in the province. Each party tabled their

version of a conversion therapy ban and worked collaboratively to pass

one unanimously in September.

This month the Canadian Bar Association sent a letter to the

federal government calling for them to impose a specific ban on

conversion therapy. The federal government has also received a petition

asking for them to take action on conversion therapy. While they

condemned the practice, they declined to take action, stating it was a

responsibility of the provinces to address.

So let us address it. Let us join our fellow provinces and other

countries and states that have taken action against this abhorrent

practice. Let us live up to our claims of valuing diversity and

inclusion. Let us protect our children by standing up for them and

saying we accept them for who they are and who they were meant to

be.

Every person deserves to be part of our community without fear of

discrimination, harassment or violence. It is the responsibility of

leaders in our community to ensure that we provide a safe, inclusive and

welcoming environment for all members of the community, including those

who identify or are perceived to be LGBTQ+.

The work of addressing stigma, bias and discrimination against

people who are marginalized because of their sexual orientation or

gender identity is ongoing. We must continue to be vigilant against

those who promote hatred and try to turn back the clock on the progress

we have made as a community.

Over the last many months, my office has been consulting with

leaders in the LGBTQ2+ community and people who have suffered conversion

therapy, while working on a bill with legislative drafters to ban the

practice in British Columbia. Notice of our bill will be tabled this

afternoon, and the full private member’s bill will be put before the

House by the end of this month.

Following the leadership and the spirit of collaboration shown in

Nova Scotia, I thank the government for initiating this important motion

and the opposition for supporting it and invite both the B.C. NDP and

the B.C. Liberals to support our bill or bring one forward of their own

proposal.

[11:15 a.m.]

Conversion therapy forced on youth is child abuse. It is not

welcome in our province. Let us stand together to show LGBTQ2+ British

Columbians that they are accepted, they are valued, they are loved, and

they are safe.

D. Davies: Thank you to the member for Powell River–Sunshine Coast for

putting this motion forward. I will be speaking in favour of this motion

today.

Before we dive into this serious and disturbing topic, I want to

express pride in our province — that all three parties have come

together and have been very supportive of LGBTQ+ British Columbians and

moving forward in a positive way. It seems like one of the few issues

that all three parties can stand up and agree on. The acceptance of this

community is certainly a positive shift that I have seen, even in my

lifetime.

members of the LGBT community in November of 2017. I’ll read it

here.

“It is with shame and sorrow and deep regret for the things we have

done that I stand here today and say: we were wrong. We apologize. I am

sorry. We are sorry….

“To members of the LGBTQ2 communities, young and old, here in Canada

and around the world, you are loved, and we support you….

“To the trailblazers who have lived and struggled, and to those who

have fought so hard to get us to this place, thank you for your courage

and thank you for lending your voices. I hope…you look back on all you

have done with pride.

“It is because of your courage that we are here today, together, and

reminding ourselves that we can, and must, do better.

“For the oppression of the lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender,

queer and two-spirited communities, we apologize. On behalf of the

government, Parliament, and the people of Canada: we were wrong. We are

sorry. And we will never let this happen again.”

That was an official apology that was issued in parliament in

November 2017.

I think change is a good way to look at this motion before us,

because it really does reflect how we have come as a society in

respecting the rights of people of all ages. When my parents were in

school, they could’ve been strapped for being left-handed. Hard to

believe today. This would have been in the 1940s and 1950s. Not only was

this common practice, but it was the attitude all the way through

school, from kindergarten up. By the way, my parents were both

left-handed.

To do this in school today would be met with universal

condemnation. The teacher would likely lose their job and not teach

again, and rightly so. There was a fundamental change in the collective

mentality of all British Columbians against this behaviour.

On a large scale, a little over 100 years ago, a small portion of

British Columbians were able to vote for members in the House. Women

didn’t, though, get the right to vote until 1917. Chinese and South

Asian Canadians were not allowed to vote until 1947. Indigenous and

Japanese British Columbians had to wait until 1949.

Fast-forward to today. In the last number of years, we have had

members, and have members, from all of these previously disenfranchised

groups elected here into this chamber who have served proudly as members

on both sides. I think and hope a similar shift has happened and is

happening in the LGBTQ+ communities.

Today we are standing in this House to condemn conversion therapy,

as it is totally unacceptable in our society. We believe that children

and teens in our province should be respected, no matter if they’re

straight, gay, lesbian, trans or identify in any other way. This is not

a behaviour that needs to be changed but a fundamental part of who these

people are.

For this reason, I consider the issue before us a human rights

issue. Individuals have the right to be accepted as they are. They have

the right not to face discrimination or hatred for who they are. I’m

comforted in thinking that a generation of children will go through

school believing that the idea of conversion therapy is as crazy as the

idea of someone being beaten for using their left hand just to write

their notes.

That is what lasting change looks like — that and the support by

all parties in this House on a motion that reaffirms this chamber’s

commitment to human rights.

[11:20 a.m.]

J. Rice: When I was 14, I struggled with depression. I was suicidal and

unable to focus on anything or concentrate in school. I aimlessly rode

buses around the city, avoiding going to classes, and carried a heavy,

dark cloud over my head.

I sought guidance for my mood disorder from a counsellor at a

youth drop-in centre in downtown Ottawa, where I met a gentle,

soft-spoken woman. She was a caring, compassionate youth counsellor. She

was really hip, I thought, because she wore Doc Marten shoes. This woman

made me feel heard, and I revelled in her attention. I felt I had a

connection with her.

It wasn’t long before she asked me if I was gay. I answered

“probably,” but I wasn’t sure. She confided in me that she, too, was a

lesbian but that she was going to therapy to cure it. She told me that

in God’s eyes, it was a sin, and that I, too, could go to therapy to

cure my gayness. To my counsellor, I was depressed because of my

homosexual tendencies, and she had a treatment for that.

Growing up with a mother who loved unconditionally and didn’t care

if I was gay, straight or anything in between, intellectually I felt

that this viewpoint was misguided and that gay people were, in fact,

okay. I was seriously depressed, but I didn’t feel it had anything to do

with my orientation. I didn’t have clarity in my sexuality, but I was

comfortable with that. It was not the source of my depression. I had a

mood disorder and was seeking help to cope with that, not trying to be

straight.

I was surprised by my counsellor’s perspective because I thought

she was so with it, and by contrast, her viewpoint seemed so antiquated.

Nonetheless, I really liked her. Heck, I may even have had a crush on

her, and I wanted to please her. Together we held hands and prayed.

Together we tried to pray the gay away.

I continued to see this counsellor, mostly because I really liked

her and the attention she gave me. Little did I know, as a vulnerable

youth, I was a subject of conversion therapy.

Conversion therapy is a set of practices that intend to change a

person’s sexuality or gender identity to fit heterosexual or cisgender

standards and expectations, and it’s often religiously motivated.

Therapies can include methods such as talk therapy, electroshock

therapy, treating LGBTQ2S+ identity as an addiction like a drug or

alcohol issue. While certain therapies, like talk therapy, are also

legitimate forms of care for people who experience mental health

problems, being gay or trans is not a mental health disorder.

I’m happy to report that I escaped conversion therapy. Today I’m

happily married to my wife, Andrea, who’s here in the gallery today. I

feel so fortunate to know her and to share a life with her, and I

couldn’t be happier, even if I was straight. I celebrate my great gay

life. Happily, praying the gay away didn’t work, but it also didn’t

cause me serious harm because of the foundation of unconditional love

from my parents.

Conversion therapy can cause people to feel that they are not okay

to simply be who they are at their very core. This can lead to

depression and suicidality in vulnerable people. Being anything other

than heterosexual and cisgender does not cause these mental crises, but

being repeatedly told by people you love and trust that you are

fundamentally wrong does.

Suicide is an epidemic with the LGBTQ2S+ community, with rates of

suicide four times greater for queer youth. Nearly half of trans people

have considered suicide at some point in their lives. Lesbian, gay, bi,

trans, queer, two-spirited people are normal people and need to be

treated as such. If you or anyone you know is struggling to accept their

place on the rainbow, please reach out to supportive services in your

community and know that it truly does get better.

P. Milobar: I stand here to speak to the motion in opposition to the practice

of conversion therapy. Being that it’s 2019, it strikes me that it’s

unfortunate that we do need to have this conversation still, but it’s

critical that we do as a society. It’s one of these topics that I think

is very important, and I do want to thank the member for Powell

River–Sunshine Coast for bringing this forward.

[11:25 a.m.]

It’s something that…. I think, as we’ve heard throughout the

morning already, that it’s critical to make sure that we keep shining a

light and awareness on issues like this — that youth in our communities

do have the right to be able to be proud of who they are and to be able

to seek out the type of life that brings them joy and happiness. We

should not be putting false practices in their way to try to lessen what

they are struggling with and what they are trying to make sure that they

can move forward with.

You think of all the advancements we’ve made in society in terms

of acceptance, moving forward on a wide range of topics and issues. The

fact that we’re still needing to debate or highlight just the plain

wrongness of conversion therapy is sad in itself. All of our youth

deserve, as I say, the right to be able to seek out the type of life

that they would like.

You think of the sports realm. You think of what’s happened. I was

reflecting on my time as a coach with my own kids versus the type of

coaching that was presented to me when I was their age. We don’t

tolerate those types of coaching practices anymore, yet there still

seems to be an underlying tolerance to things around conversion

therapies in segments of our communities. There shouldn’t be. There

should be no doubt about it. There should be no need to continue to try

to have to shout down these types of wrong-minded practices that are out

there.

It’s unfortunate that there are still people out there preying

upon the vulnerable, as the previous speaker mentioned, preying on their

vulnerabilities and their confusion in life. The teenage years, the

younger years of anybody, are confusing enough for people, let alone

when you’re trying to struggle through in a household that may not be as

accepting of who you truly are. To have conversion therapy avenues open

to parents and guardians is wrong. They should not be able to seek out

and find people that are willing to make, essentially, their child’s

life that much more difficult and that much more confusing for

them.

People peddling the conversion therapies of the world, as the UN

has rightly pointed out, should not be doing so. You see all sorts of

documentaries on various channels and with the streaming services now of

just how wrong these therapies go. The intended outcome, first off, is

an impossible one to try to achieve. It’s starting from a very wrong

spot, a very wrong mindset that if only there was a bit more praying —

if only there was a bit more, essentially, brainwashing — people would

change how they were born and how they are wired to be. That’s simply

categorically wrong.

There is no place, especially for our youth, to feel that they

need to change who they are, that they, unfortunately, do not have a

loving home that would enable them to be able to live their happiest

adolescent years that they could in a very confusing time for them, in a

time that would be a higher level of confusion, angst, worry, potential

depression and all those types of issues that would come with already

feeling like you don’t quite fit in and you don’t quite

belong.

To have that advanced further by your parents or your guardian

seeking out people that would stand to try to validate those parental

feelings, which are totally wrong and should not be there, simply cannot

stand.

I do thank the member for Powell River–Sunshine Coast for bringing

this forward. It’s an important topic. It’s one that, unfortunately, we

need to keep pressing. We need to keep saying: “It is not acceptable. It

is not right.” It’s one of those things that cuts across ideological

lines.

D. Routley: It gives me pleasure to stand up and support this motion, which

would seek to bring light to the conversion therapies that are being

enforced or imposed on young people around the world but even here in

British Columbia.

[11:30 a.m.]

It was only a few weeks ago that I gave a statement in this House

in the words of a young, transgender man named Elijah Boyle and spoke

about the importance of understanding and the danger of

complacency.

We heard a statement earlier today about the rise of the alt-right

movement and all that goes along with that. It all comes from the same

bag of rotten potatoes — racism, xenophobia, misogyny, homophobia. It

all comes from the same batch. It’s important that we as elected people

offer our support to any vulnerable citizens, regardless of why they

have become vulnerable. It would be irresponsible for any of us to do

any other than that.

Young Eli was devastated when the Prime Minister passed on

supporting a ban on conversion therapies. Eli supported the Prime

Minister because he believed that he would stand up for transgender

people. Not only was he crushed by that act, but I saw the development

of a kind of cynicism inside him and his girlfriend — or maybe a

confirmation of cynicism that they had been resisting, that nothing

could change. That’s really unfortunate for all of us.

I want to speak to people who are living in the closet and who are

afraid to come out. They’re afraid because of their personal safety, a

shunning that they might experience from the people who they love, a

loss of relationships and a loss of respect from people that they

respect. I understand it. Many people suffer.

We can all have an effect here with the words that we use. We will

have an effect here with the words we use, whether we want to or not.

But I think we should want to, and we should direct that effect to

supporting vulnerable people everywhere.

This motion affirms that we all care about the wellness of every

child and youth in this province, that we will protect them. It states

clearly the values of this province, the values of the people on this

side of the House, and fortunately and very beneficially, I believe, the

values of all members.

The member for Vancouver–West End tried three times to introduce a

bill that would protect transgender rights by introducing them into the

B.C. human rights code, and three times that failed. Finally, the

previous government did act to do that.

It’s very unfortunate that one member did vote against that and

did not support it. I understand that a person’s beliefs might prevent

them from actively, inside themselves, supporting this, but we have a

double duty of responsibility here — elected to protect people and make

their lives better. We cannot contribute fuel to a fire that’s burning

in our society right now, referred to by the previous statement on the

rise of the alt-right movement.

It is important. All the words we use, particularly here, are

important. We live in a time when fear and hate are being manipulated by

some in political positions of power — fear and hate as we approach

climate insecurity and many other challenges as a species. It’s in times

of fear that times become fearsome for those who are vulnerable. Words

matter.

Eli said, and these are his words: “Quiet complacency with

homophobic and transphobic ideologies is far more harmful than those who

spout hate from a place of ignorance. Trans people who are not accepted

by those around them are 44 percent more likely to attempt suicide,

while that percentage drops to 4 percent when they are acknowledged and

accepted. Just acknowledging trans people as valid is suicide

prevention.”

Those were his words, and I absolutely agree with him. We can’t be

complacent. We have a responsibility to act and to act in good faith and

a responsibility to call out those who would manipulate this hatred that

was growing.

Numbers and words matter. Ask any marketing specialist. Eli knows

this. Me, I consider this to be, essentially, a guide to living in the

closet. This is how you’ll suppress yourself, and it is

terrible.

[11:35 a.m.]

M. Stilwell: Thank you for the opportunity to speak today in support of this

motion — the motion that the House affirm its opposition to conversion

therapy for lesbian, gay, bisexual, questioning, transgender, queer,

two-spirited, intersex or any other minor.

Adolescence is a tumultuous time. Bodies are changing. Hormone

levels are fluctuating. It’s causing mixed feelings and immense amounts

of stress. Growing up is tough. It’s full of uncertainty, and adding the

stress of wondering if your parents will love you for who you are or if

your classmates or your teammates or your friends will continue to

accept you can be terrifying. Unfortunately, this is a sad reality for

many young people.

Youth deserve the freedom to experience these growing pains

without being told that the way they are is wrong or that the feelings

they’re having are wrong. In a perfect world, youth wouldn’t be told

that the way they were born was wrong or a mistake. They wouldn’t feel

like they have to hide who they are for fear of rejection from their

family or their peers. They would be accepted, and they’d be treated the

way we all wish to be.

I believe that everyone should have the right and the opportunity

to be themselves without the fear of discrimination. Society can only

benefit from a breadth of views and perspectives. We’re all human, and

even though there are differences among us, whether it’s through gender

or cultural or religious or even political lines, this country is known

for being progressive and for respecting and honouring the differences

between you and me and everyone else.

Here in British Columbia, we are blessed with a diversity of

landscapes, beliefs and cultural backgrounds. Having that privilege — to

live in a place that is rich in individualism and that does its best to

ensure the basic human rights for all — is a great one.

In Canada, there are laws in place to protect the rights and the

freedoms of the individual. We’re entitled to dress however we like,

speak the language that we want, eat what we like and practise any

religion that we want. In a perfect world, our ideological differences

wouldn’t cause conflict or cause members of a majority group to repress

a minority group. And although these laws are in place to seek

protection of our rights to believe what we want and love who we want,

there is so much more that needs to be done.

The prevalence of hate crimes is still rampant. The amount of hate

speech flying around on the Internet, in workplaces, in classrooms and

locker rooms is still rampant. There’s no legislation or law or means of

enforcement that is big enough or powerful enough to completely

eradicate discrimination. That has to come from society. And little by

little, we can come together over our differences by treating everyone

as equal.

We should be united over the things that make each and every one

of us unique, not divided. These differences present unique

opportunities for us to learn from one another. We all come from

different walks of life, which means we all bring something valuable to

contribute. There’s no right way or wrong way to live, and it’s

certainly not a politician’s job to tell people who to love or what god

they should pray to or if they should pray at all.

I speak in this House today not as a member of the Legislative

Assembly but as a person who fundamentally believes that individuality

should be celebrated and not condemned. I think these differences are

what make Canada and British Columbia great. And I think that on both

sides of this House, that is something we can all agree on.

S. Chandra Herbert: I’m proud to stand today as a member of a government but, more

importantly, as a member of a Legislature that is opposed to conversion

therapy. It’s been inspirational to hear the words of members of all

political parties united to say that this practice, a practice which

harms LGBTQ youth immeasurably and thus harms society, is something that

we do not stand for in British Columbia, and it is not accepted or

acceptable here.

[11:40 a.m.]

I’m glad that this conversation — and I thank the member for

Powell River–Sunshine Coast — is now out in the open. For years, a

number of us have spoken with the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of

Education and other places to ensure that the B.C. government was not in

any way funding, allowing people to bill to support this practice,

allowing public funds and resources to go into supporting this. I’ve

been assured by the Ministry of Health, specifically, that there is no

way, currently, that somebody could bill to accept money to do a

practice like conversion therapy.

Now, that’s different from Ontario. Ontario, I understand,

introduced legislation to make it clear to actually ban that billing

category from existing in their health legislation. In B.C., there is no

such category. So for a number of years, that hasn’t been possible. I’m

really happy to hear that.

However, when I say I’m glad this has become visible, I say it

because the idea of a therapy to convert you from what you are to

something else is really about, at its core, invisibility, about erasing

people’s identities, making them disappear, eradicating them from the

planet, from their ability to exist.

I’ve spoken with one of the most outspoken people in B.C. about

the practice of conversion therapy, Peter Gajdics. I’ve met with him a

number of times. He believes, and shares quite strongly, that this harms

people for many decades, could change their entire reality. He believes

that what happened to him should happen to no one else. I thank him for

his campaign to make this clear. Vancouver, of course, thanks to his

advocacy, passed a resolution banning conversion therapy in

Vancouver.

Of course, I think, united today as a House, we’ll be clear that

we, as a government and as an opposition, all together say it shouldn’t

be allowed anywhere in B.C.

On Friday, we had the International Day Against Homophobia,

Transphobia and Biphobia in B.C. I think people celebrating that day

will acknowledge that today we are also taking a step forward. Of

course, we’ve changed our human rights code to involve gender identity

and expression. That took long, long years of advocacy, but we got it

done.

Just as importantly, we are now proactive in our school system,

with the sexual orientation and gender identity policies embedded in all

classes. Because it’s not enough to say: “Don’t tell people they

shouldn’t exist.” I think it’s just as important to say: “You exist, and

we love you for your existence. We celebrate your ability to be who you

are.”

For a long time, going through the school system, you would be

forgiven for thinking that LGBTQ people didn’t even exist. They didn’t

appear in any curriculum. There were no stories about them. Certainly,

growing up, that was the way it was for me. I think the few times I saw

LGBTQ folks, it was in movies about them dying because of AIDS.

Certainly, people growing up in my generation saw AIDS and LGBT folks as

somehow correlated, because there was such little education or

information out there, just phobia and stigma.

I want to thank all of those who have gone before for educating,

for advocating, for protesting, for being locked up, for doing what they

needed to do to spread education and advocacy so that we could get to

today, to be taking the step that, united as a government and as an

opposition, we could be opposing this. Because a few years ago you’d

never even hear words like “trans” in this House. Indeed, when I joined

this Legislature back in 2008, I think the word “transgender” had never

actually been said in this chamber before. That was ten years ago, 11

years ago. How is that possible? But indeed, society is progressing at a

fast pace, because we’re uniting together.

Thank you to the member for putting this on the floor so that we

can all unite and so that ministers and everybody can go back and think

of ways they can affirm people’s value, their ability to exist and,

indeed, the joy that the great diversity in our province should bring us

all. Thank you. I gladly support this motion.

M. Bernier: First, I want to thank the member for Powell River–Sunshine Coast

for bringing this important topic to the House today. Obviously, it’s

one that we’ve heard that members on both sides of the House, all our

three parties, support. It’s an important topic. As was mentioned by a

few people, it’s unfortunate, actually, that it even had to come to the

House to begin with, that we needed to even have this discussion. But it

is important to bring awareness on a topic that should not even require

a debate or discussion anymore.

[11:45 a.m.]

Before I get too deep into my comments here, I do find it quite

upsetting and appalling that the member for Nanaimo–North Cowichan, in a

situation where I thought the House was all on the same side, where the

House was all supporting in a very good debate, had to try to politicize

it with inaccuracies of what happened in this House. I expect the

member, at the end of this, to stand up and withdraw his comments

because not one person in this House voted against the Human Rights Code

Amendment Act. In fact, it passed unanimously in this House, and the

member said the opposite. So I expect the member opposite to stand up

and withdraw his comment afterwards for not being accurate in

that.

More importantly, let’s talk about the issue at hand here, which

is an important topic. When we look at conversion therapy, and you look

at the history of it…. It is absolutely, incredibly disappointing when

you look at what’s happened through society. But what’s really inspiring

is how we learn, how we move forward and how we become more accepting.

The last thing that we need in society, with our youth, is the pressure,

the stigma, the feeling of not fitting in, the feelings of not being

allowed to be who you are.

Suicide is the third leading cause of deaths in our youth. Most

stats have shown that the majority of these students and youth are LGBTQ

or students who are questioning or students who are feeling not accepted

because of who they are. Stats were done in 2010. A poll was done. So 59

percent of LGBTQ students were verbally harassed in schools, 25 percent

were physically harassed in schools, and 73 percent of our students

reported that they actually felt unsafe going to school because of their

being open and LGBTQ.

That’s why we actually brought in policies in the past to try to

ensure, if nothing else, that schools have supports and teachers have

resources. Yes, a policy is just words. But the enactment of the

policies in our schools to try to help students to feel accepted, to

feel safe, to feel they belong and to have a place to go to, whether

it’s for resources or for teachers to be able to be that sometimes

front-line support and sometimes the very first person that a student

will open up to….

When I was the Minister of Education, I travelled around the

province. Some of the stories that I heard were quite scary, quite sad.

When I hear young students in high school telling me: “I can’t change

who I am. Why are people trying to force me to change? I don’t belong. I

don’t fit in….” I even had one student say to me: “I’d rather have

cancer, because at least then people would understand that I’m sick, and

I can get help,

whereas being LGBTQ — this is who I am. Why do they

think I’m sick? There is nothing wrong with me.” Conversion therapy was

brought in because of that, and I’m so glad that this House is actually

standing up, as we are in so many countries around the world, and

banning this practice.

It’s time that we actually, as society, start thinking and working

on the things that are actually important on making life better for

people. You know, life is short as it is. We need, as a society, to make

sure that we’re supporting, accepting and allowing people in our society

to be who they are so they can enjoy the life that we all expect all of

us to have.

M. Elmore: I’m very proud to rise and speak to the motion moved by my

colleague from Powell River–Sunshine Coast. “Be it resolved that this

House affirm its opposition to the practice of conversion therapy for

lesbian, gay, bi-sexual, questioning, transgender, queer, two-spirited,

intersex…” people.

[11:50 a.m.]

Conversion therapy, also known as sexual reorientation, reparative

or gay cure therapy is premised on the assumption that homosexuality or

trans identity is a mental disorder and that these individuals should

change either their sexual orientation or gender identity to

heterosexual or cisgender.

Conversion therapy forces these individuals into a deep pit of

shame and constitutes a deep transgression and violation of these youth.

It cuts to a deep level of psychiatric…. It creates emotional damage and

is also a cause for depression, substance abuse and even

suicide.

Conversion therapy is condemned as a dangerous, unnecessary and

ineffective practice by every major psychotherapy, medical and mental

health organization. As well, the World Health Organization states that

these practices lack medical justification and represent a serious

threat to the health and well-being of affected people. There is a

global epidemic that we’re seeing around conversion therapy.

Likewise, we are all part…. Today I am very pleased that we have

unanimous support for this motion in the House in our response here in

British Columbia. We’re part of the global movement to fight back and

end conversion therapy.

We know that there have been long-standing efforts over many years

by many individuals who have suffered through conversion therapy, and

it’s created a critical mass. Now it’s broken through to the mainstream,

with the successful movies Boy Erased or The Miseducation

of Cameron Post to raise awareness of conversion therapy and to

contribute to the growing trend condemning the practice.

I came out as a lesbian when I was 18 years old. It wasn’t easy. I

sat down at the kitchen table with my mother. I was crying. She was

crying. There were tears streaming down our faces. I said: “You know, I

think that I’m attracted to other women.” My mother was…. She didn’t

really understand, but she told me that she loved me and would accept me

and support me, whatever I was going through.

When I told my sister, she was really angry at me. I was taken

aback. She was angry at me because I hadn’t told her for so many years.

She thought that if I had told her earlier…. She didn’t think it was any

big deal. So it was a challenge.

I began advocating around raising awareness, around ending

homophobia and transphobia. Individuals — we’re complex. People are born

on a continuum of biological sex, a continuum of gender identity, a

continuum of gender expression and a continuum of sexual orientation. We

know that human rights recognizes this — our British Columbia code for

human rights — but there is a need to continue to raise awareness, to

support youth and to end this practice.

There is a campaign to end conversion therapy. It was launched by

the National Center for Lesbian Rights. It’s called #bornperfect. I

encourage everybody to tweet and support that.

I’d like to just end with a quote. We must relegate these

therapies, conversion therapies, “to the dustbin of history and ensure

every child knows they were #bornperfect.”

I’m very pleased to speak in favour of the motion, and I’m so

honoured and pleased to be joined by all members of this House in

unanimous support for this motion.

M. Elmore moved adjournment of debate.

Motion approved.

Hon. J. Darcy moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

Deputy Speaker: The House is adjourned till 1:30 this afternoon.

The House adjourned at 11:54 a.m.

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