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October 19, 2004

38th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2004-Oct-19 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Tuesday 19 October 2004 Mardi 19 octobre 2004

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

INTERNATIONAL PLOWING MATCH

TERESA CASCIOLI

RIDEAU REGIONAL CENTRE

SCHOOL TRANSPORTATION FUNDING

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

HEALTH CARE

OLYMPIC ATHLETES

EDUCATION FUNDING

HOSPITAL FUNDING

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

LAW ENFORCEMENT AND FORFEITED

PROPERTY MANAGEMENT STATUTE

LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE L'EXÉCUTION

DE LA LOI ET L'ADMINISTRATION

DES BIENS CONFISQUÉS

HIGHWAY TRAFFIC

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004

MODIFIANT LE CODE DE LA ROUTE

VISITORS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

ELDER ABUSE

MARIJUANA GROW HOUSES

ELDER ABUSE

MARIJUANA GROW HOUSES

ORAL QUESTIONS

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

HOSPITAL FUNDING

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

HOSPITAL FUNDING

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

FIRES AT WASTE TRANSFER STATION

MARIJUANA GROW HOUSES

GOVERNMENT PUBLICATION

PUBLIC INQUIRY

SECURITIES INDUSTRY

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

LABOUR DISPUTE

FOREST INDUSTRY

POLICE OFFICERS

PETITIONS

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

TTC RIGHT-OF-WAY

PROPERTY TAXATION

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

TUITION

LANDFILL

WORKERS' COMPENSATION

CHILDREN'S HEALTH SERVICES

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

TAXATION

TUITION

DISTRICT OF MUSKOKA

ORDERS OF THE DAY

PROFESSIONAL LEARNING PROGRAM

CANCELLATION ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 ANNULANT LE PROGRAMME

DE PERFECTIONNEMENT

PROFESSIONNEL

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

INTERNATIONAL PLOWING MATCH

Mr Bill Murdoch (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound): I rise in the House today to speak about the 2004 International Plowing Match and Rural Expo that took

place near Meaford from September 22 to 26. This is the fourth time since 1933 that Grey county has played host to this event. The IPM, as it is widely known, is the biggest outdoor farm and rural

living show in Canada. It is a combination of a farm machinery show, an educational experience about rural life and an entertainment spectacular.

I would like to take this opportunity to give thanks and praise to the executive of this year's IPM. Led by co-chairs Pearl and Brian Bumstead, the executive

turned the Davison farm into a 90-acre tent city that became host to over 600 exhibits that were visited by more than 80,000 people during the five-day event.

While the Bumsteads and their crew did a fantastic job, even they would have had a tough time pulling it off without the nearly 1,000 volunteers who drove

shuttles, directed traffic, took tickets and did anything else they were asked to do. For my part, I had an incredible time working with my Bognor Jam Production and Promotion colleague, Arnie

Clark. We organized entertainment in the lounge tent, and it was our pleasure to bring world-class musical entertainment to visitors during the day and to the trailer park residents at night.

To close, I would like to thank the three leaders in this Legislature -- Dalton McGuinty, Howard Hampton, and our new leader, John Tory -- for attending the

match and visiting Grey county. It was great to see each of them up on a tractor, and if any of them would like more practice with this, I invite them to visit my family farm. It was great to see

them plowing the manure instead of spreading it.

TERESA CASCIOLI

Ms Judy Marsales (Hamilton West): I rise in the House today to congratulate Teresa Cascioli, president and CEO of Lakeport Beverage Corp of

Hamilton. Last week, Teresa was named Ontario Entrepreneur of the Year in the turnaround category by Ernst and Young. She won this award over 32 nominees representing 29 companies in Ontario.

In 2003, Teresa was named by Profit magazine and its sister magazine, Chatelaine, as one of the top 10 women CEOs in Canada for her role in reviving Lakeport

Brewing, a Hamilton company that employs over 200 staff.

Earlier this year, Teresa received the chamber of commerce Athena award, an award that recognizes women's leadership and professionalism and those who mentor in

business and the professions. I am pleased to announce that Teresa Cascioli will also be receiving the Ontario Chamber of Commerce outstanding business achievement award on November 10 for

outstanding leadership and achievement in business.

We in Hamilton West are extremely proud of the achievements of Teresa Cascioli and congratulate her on reviving such a successful Hamilton business, now the

fourth largest brewery in Ontario.

Yesterday, the Honourable Sandra Pupatello spoke eloquently about women's achievements to commemorate the 75th anniversary of Persons Day in Canada. All I want

to say to Teresa is, way to go, Teresa.

RIDEAU REGIONAL CENTRE

Mr Norman W. Sterling (Lanark-Carleton): Last month, the Minister of Community and Social Services made her now-infamous announcement that she

intends to close the Rideau Regional Centre in Smiths Falls in 2009. This announcement hit like a bombshell in my riding. The facility's residents, their families and the staff were shocked to

learn that this announcement contained no concrete plan to address the future needs of the residents.

Unfortunately, the minister appears to have been forced to make this hasty announcement before she was ready, after publicly musing about her intentions. I share

the very concerns I am hearing from families that this decision will only serve to lower the quality of life for many of those directly affected. It will be traumatic for many of the 435 residents,

their families and the staff.

With an average age in the 50s, most of the clients consider this residential facility their home. They are familiar with their surroundings and the people who

work and live at the centre and are a critical part of their lives. Tearing these vulnerable people away is cruel and harsh. Many of the residents are severely challenged, both mentally and

physically, and their needs simply cannot be met in the community.

I'm calling on the minister to immediately reverse this decision. Let the remaining residents live out the rest of their lives with their lifelong friends. Don't

separate them from the physical and emotional surroundings which they have relied on virtually all of their lives. I will continue to advocate for the well-being of these residents and ensure they

don't fall through the cracks.

SCHOOL TRANSPORTATION FUNDING

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): I want to take a minute and a half to talk about the so-called Equitable Allocation Through a New Funding

Model for Student Transportation in Ontario, a discussion paper. What I want to say about this is, it is not an equitable allocation of busing throughout Ontario. It is, in fact, inequitable.

I also want to say that it doesn't appear to me to be a discussion paper, although yesterday the minister, in response to my question, said that this is a

discussion of a draft document that may happen in terms of a formula for transportation funding. The fact of the matter is that this is not a discussion paper; this is something that is happening.

Some boards are affected negatively, and some boards are affected positively. He says, "Don't worry. This is merely a discussion paper."

I want to point out to the minister that the funding for transportation purposes is being phased in this year and the following year. If it were a discussion

paper, the funding would not flow this year and next. The fact that some boards are getting money for transportation and some are not is a serious, serious problem. What we say is, there are 31

boards that are not getting more money but will be getting less money this year and more cuts the following year. That's what this inequitable formula is all about.

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

Mr Shafiq Qaadri (Etobicoke North): I rise in the House today to recognize the good works done by OHRIA, the Ontario Horse Racing Industry

Association, especially the many charitable causes supported by the Woodbine Entertainment Group in my riding of Etobicoke North.

OHRIA plays a significant

part in the economy of Ontario. It contributes $1.2 billion in taxes and slot revenues to our great province and last year alone

donated over $600,000 to equine research programs at the University of Guelph.

On top of these impressive initiatives, individual horse racing venues make considerable efforts to support the communities in which they operate. For instance,

the Woodbine Entertainment Group directly employs over 2,500 people in my riding. In addition, they donate 3% of their net revenue to charitable causes. Last year, the group donated over $640,000

to charity and will do so again this year.

Just a few of their worthy causes: They are the sole sponsor of the Woodbine Breakfast Club, offering breakfast on a daily basis to more than 100 children. They

are a major benefactor of the Dorothy Ley Hospice, which was recognized eloquently last week by the member from Etobicoke Centre. They are also patrons of the Albion Boys and Girls Club, an

organization that helps kids realize their potential in many areas, including substance abuse prevention and summer camps. They also make a magnificent annual contribution to Arts Etobicoke.

I call on all members in this House to congratulate the worthy efforts of the Woodbine Entertainment Group.

HEALTH CARE

Mrs Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): Yesterday, the government released this glossy, partisan, 16-page, self-congratulating report on

their performance thus far. The Premier claimed he had stopped the slide in health care. The report makes the laughable claim that the government is improving access to health care and shortening

wait times. Well, let's just say the Premier was a little liberal with the truth.

According to a report by the Fraser Institute, the government's assertion of stopping the slide is inaccurate, and their incompetence is once again exposed as

health care access and wait times slide backwards. The fact is that under the McGuinty government -- and I quote from the report -- "Manitoba achieved the shortest total wait in 2004, 14.8 weeks,

with Ontario (15.5 weeks) losing the best-access province status that it had held since 2000...."

Our government earned that title, and in little over a year, the McGuinty government's incompetence has seen Ontario's health care access and wait times decline.

But it does not end there. Everything -- the referral of a doctor to an appointment with a specialist has increased. The waiting time from the appointment with the specialist to actual treatment

has increased from 7.1 weeks to a staggering 8.2 weeks. All of this has happened under the Liberal watch -- longer wait times.

OLYMPIC ATHLETES

Mr Kevin Daniel Flynn (Oakville): I rise today to talk about the Olympics, which got a lot of media attention with Canadians this year. I rise

today to recognize a very special athlete from my riding of Oakville. His name is Adam Van Koeverden. During the Summer Olympic Games in Athens, Greece, Adam took home not only the bronze but also

the gold medal in the sport of sprint kayaking. This victory, being the highest achievement in athletic competition, is a true honour.

Adam's dedication, discipline and talent to the sport have driven his success and enabled him to reach his goal. At the age of 22, Adam is a natural leader who

continues to inspire a generation of children, athletes and, above all, his fellow Canadians as he continues his studies at McMaster University in Hamilton.

A celebration was held in Oakville to showcase not only Adam's accomplishments but also the accomplishments of two other Olympian participants from Oakville:

Oskar Johansson placed 15th in sailing and Andrew Hurd finished fifth in the finals of the men's swimming relay and set a new Canadian record. Oakville citizens, athletes from the Oakville

community and the mayor and members of council came to the event to recognize their efforts and to celebrate their accomplishments.

I'm extremely proud of these Oakville athletes. I look forward to other opportunities to highlight the achievements of athletes in my riding, as you never know

when that young athlete you know on your own street or in your own neighbourhood can one day become an Olympic winner.

EDUCATION FUNDING

Mrs Liz Sandals (Guelph-Wellington): Yesterday, the leader of the third party once again exemplified how to be a member of the irresponsible

opposition. When the member was asked about our government's hiring of over 1,000 new teachers, he stated, "Go out there and try to find a school board where that's happened, because the school

boards will tell you it hasn't happened." Well, the fact of the matter is, we have hired 1,100 new teachers. Not only have we hired new teachers, we have reduced class sizes; 1,300 schools across

this province now have classes of 20 or under. This has been made possible by the government's $800 million in new school funding for education.

If the member wants to talk about rural schools, we'll talk about rural schools. More schools than ever before qualify for rural school funding. This government

has given an extra $31 million to rural schools in the past year.

Here is what the rural school boards have to say. Huron-Superior Catholic District School Board said, "We are happy because there is an appreciation that boards

like ours that cover such a huge geographical area are finally being recognized through adjustments to the (funding) formula." Thames Valley: "This money is very much appreciated." Grand Erie:

"This is good news."

We are investing in our education system.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr Jeff Leal (Peterborough): There's been some talk, both around here and in my riding, that hospital beds are closing. I'd like to make it

clear that this is certainly not the case. The McGuinty government has invested almost $470 million in Ontario's hospitals. That is an increase of 4.3% over last year.

In Peterborough and surrounding area, we have invested $8.8 million in our local hospitals. That money has been used to hire more nurses and start cutting down

on surgery wait times. We're also working on cutting down the burden on our hospitals and emergency rooms. To that end, we have locally invested more than $1 million in mental health services, $1.2

million in community care access centres, more than half a million dollars in community support services, and almost $1 million in long-term care. That's roughly $12 million invested in the

Peterborough area since the McGuinty government came to power.

Let's not forget the years of Tory mismanagement that left us with our troubled health care system. Do you remember Mike Harris saying he'd push through his

agenda without "touching a penny of health care funding"? I do. That was before he shut down 44 hospitals and fired 10,000 nurses.

We're doing things differently. We're transforming health care by investing in health services in our communities throughout Ontario. We're putting our hospitals

on a sustainable path, making them more accessible, more responsible and more accountable.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

LAW ENFORCEMENT AND FORFEITED

PROPERTY MANAGEMENT STATUTE

LAW AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 MODIFIANT DES LOIS

EN CE QUI CONCERNE L'EXÉCUTION

DE LA LOI ET L'ADMINISTRATION

DES BIENS CONFISQUÉS

Mr Kwinter moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 128,

An Act to amend various Acts with respect to enforcement powers, penalties and the management of property forfeited, or that may be forfeited, to the

Crown in right of Ontario as a result of organized crime, marijuana growing and other unlawful activities / Projet de loi 128, Loi modifiant diverses lois en ce qui concerne les pouvoirs

d'exécution, les pénalités et l'administration des biens confisqués ou pouvant être confisqués au profit de la Couronne du chef de l'Ontario par suite d'activités

de crime organisé et de culture de marijuana ainsi que d'autres activités illégales.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Minister of Community Safety?

Hon Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): I'll be making a statement under ministerial statements.

HIGHWAY TRAFFIC

AMENDMENT ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004

MODIFIANT LE CODE DE LA ROUTE

Mr Milloy moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 129,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act / Projet de loi 129, Loi modifiant le Code de la route.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr John Milloy (Kitchener Centre): This bill, if passed, amends the Highway Traffic Act to make it mandatory for anyone using in-line skates, a

skateboard or any other type of muscle-powered vehicle to wear a helmet. At present, all cyclists in Ontario are required to wear helmets, but regulations passed by the government exempted

individuals over the age of 18 from this requirement. This bill removes the government's power to make such exceptions, making it mandatory for all cyclists to wear helmets. It does, however,

provide for exemptions for those who cannot wear a helmet due to religious beliefs.

VISITORS

Mr Mike Colle (Eglinton-Lawrence): I have a delegation here, Mr Speaker, I'd like to welcome from Calabria, Italy. We have Professor Caterina

Borrelli, Marco Marchese, Massimo Esposito and Angelo Sposato.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY

AND RESPONSES

ELDER ABUSE

Hon John Gerretsen (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, minister responsible for seniors): I am honoured today to rise in the Legislature

as minister responsible for seniors on this, the first provincial Elder Abuse Awareness Day in Ontario.

As you may recall, earlier this year this Legislature passed a resolution sponsored by MPP David Zimmer calling for an Elder Abuse Awareness Day, and I'm pleased

that we will recognize today as Elder Abuse Awareness Day. At the same time, I'm sure we are all sad that the need for such a day exists. Although the vast majority of seniors are treated with the

dignity and respect they deserve, for a small percentage, abuse is a reality.

To pretend that elder abuse doesn't exist would mean abandoning our responsibilities to those seniors who have suffered abuse or are at risk of being abused.

Elder abuse has no place in our Ontario. Seniors have the right to live in safety and security. Our government is committed to maintaining safe, strong communities for all Ontarians, which is why

we continue to improve programs and services in this area.

Just over a week ago, our Premier, Premier McGuinty, announced that Ontario will be hiring 600 nurses and 1,400 front-line staff to provide a new, improved

standard of care for our long-term-care residents, including having a registered nurse available at all times. We will be providing additional services to assist patients moving from hospitals to

long-term-care facilities, and we will also be providing a Web site and public reporting system to enhance care standards. We will be increasing the comfort allowance to put more discretionary

income into the hands of low-income, long-term-care residents. This is the first such increase in almost 20 years. And we froze the accommodation costs for our long-term-care residents. For the

first time since 1993, residents' accommodation costs will not increase during a fiscal year.

I could go on about how this government is helping seniors with $1.3 billion in home care services this year or our investment of $29.2 million in community care

and supportive housing services, but that will be a subject and a statement for another day.

Today, Elder Abuse Awareness Day, is the day for us to improve our understanding of what elder abuse is and how to prevent it, and our opportunity to help others

do the same. Elder abuse is generally defined as any act or omission that harms a senior or jeopardizes his or her health or welfare. Elder abuse can take the form of financial, emotional or

physical abuse and neglect. By becoming more informed on the topic together, all Ontarians can help prevent elder abuse.

Elder Abuse Awareness Day complements the public education initiatives of our strategy to combat elder abuse, the first strategy of its kind in Canada. Our

strategy, developed by the Ontario Seniors' Secretariat in my ministry, focuses on three important priorities: coordinated local services to help abused seniors, staff training, and public

education.

In the event of abuse or suspected abuse, people must know where they can go for help. My colleague the Attorney General will be providing more detail on this

point following my remarks.

At the next federal-provincial-territorial meeting of ministers responsible for seniors, I will be advocating with my colleagues for the establishment of Elder

Abuse Awareness Days in other provinces and territories, as well as the establishment of a national Elder Abuse Awareness Day in Canada.

Internationally, the World Health Organization and the International Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse have announced their intention to launch an

annual international Elder Abuse Awareness Day in 2006. We will work with the international community on a common day. In the meantime, however, we felt it was simply too important to wait, and

that is why we've declared this day as Elder Abuse Awareness Day.

Today in communities across Ontario, local elder abuse networks are marking this important day with open houses, candlelight vigils and other

public-awareness-raising activities. Public education is an important tool in effectively addressing elder abuse, and our government, along with the Ontario Network for the Prevention of Elder

Abuse, is asking members of this House to join with us in helping to promote this very important day as we move forward.

Hon Michael Bryant (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs, minister responsible for democratic renewal): I would like to

thank Minister Gerretsen for sharing his time with me to recognize Elder Abuse Awareness Day. Special thanks and congratulations to my great parliamentary assistant, the MPP for Willowdale, David

Zimmer, for his dedication in addressing this issue. Last spring, David Zimmer introduced a private member's resolution in this House, and that has led directly to the declaration of Elder Abuse

Awareness Day. It's because of his actions that we are here today casting light on a disturbing problem that for too long has been shrouded in darkness.

Victims of elder abuse are often too afraid, isolated or embarrassed to speak out. Mr Zimmer called elder abuse one of the last silent issues of our society.

So the first step is obviously to raise awareness of the issue itself. Elder abuse is an important component of our government's domestic violence action plan. It's through awareness that victims

of elder abuse will understand that they don't need to live in fear or be embarrassed by the abuse they suffer. Through greater awareness, they will know that they can and should reach out for the

support they need and that when they do extend their hand for help, their government is there to assist.

Our government is committed to helping to ensure that all victims get the support they deserve. With respect to elder abuse, we have already taken steps to

improve the province's victim support line as part of the government's overall strategy to combat elder abuse. Information counsellors who answer calls on the victim support line are trained to

offer help to victims of elder abuse. These counsellors understand the dynamics of elder abuse and the psychological aspects that need to be considered when speaking to a senior who may be a victim

of this type of abuse. They have been trained to identify the signs and the reasons why seniors may not report it. Counsellors will point callers in the right direction so that they know where to

turn in their home community to find the necessary support and services. Victims of elder abuse or anyone concerned about the well-being of a senior are encouraged to call the victim support line.

The toll-free number is 1-888-579-2888.

Seniors deserve to be treated with respect, and seniors deserve to be protected from harm. By working together, by raising awareness, by providing assistance

through the victim support line, by pointing seniors in the direction of the services they need to recover from elder abuse, we are taking great strides toward protecting seniors from harm and

giving them the respect they deserve.

MARIJUANA GROW HOUSES

Hon Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): I rise this afternoon to make an important announcement that will

help make Ontario communities safer for all residents. The McGuinty government intends to do whatever it can to control indoor marijuana grow operations in Ontario. Let me be very clear: We have a

plan to deal with the proliferation of these operations that threaten the safety of our communities. The legislation I introduced this afternoon is just the first step in that plan, one that will

help create stronger, safer and more livable communities for all Ontario residents.

Marijuana grow houses are a blight on our neighbourhoods. In York, Peel and Waterloo regions combined, it is estimated that 17% of grow ops were located within

500 metres of a primary or secondary school. They are a problem we all share and they are a problem we must all work together to solve. The Toronto Police Service, for example, has made 248 busts

so far this year, resulting in police confiscating more than 83,275 plants.

After the very successful Green Tide Summit that my ministry co-hosted in March with the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police, I made a personal commitment

to continue to work with my cabinet colleagues so that the McGuinty government can maintain its leadership role in this area.

The proposed legislation, if passed, will stiffen laws affecting a number of different areas. The proposed legislation, if passed, would:

(1) allow an electricity distributor to disconnect hydro without notice in accordance with a court order or for emergency, safety or system-reliability

reasons;

(2) require building inspections of all homes that police confirm contain a grow op. If building inspectors deem the property unsafe, they are required to

issue orders for repair. This would protect people from purchasing a property that would require thousands of dollars of repairs;

(3) double the maximum penalties under the Fire Protection and Prevention Act, 1997, for any contraventions of the Ontario fire code, such as tampering with

wiring that would cause excessive heating that would lead to a fire, something commonly done in grow ops;

(4) set up a special-purpose account so that the proceeds of grow ops and other criminal activities, such as real estate, vehicles and other equipment, can be

spent on enforcement, crime prevention and compensating victims.

Police and the private sector asked for the tools to combat grow ops. Today we are giving them those tools.

Many of these grow operators have ties to organized crime and depend on new immigrants and their families to crop-sit. Everyone in society suffers because of

these unscrupulous operators.

My ministry co-hosted, with the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police, the Green Tide Summit last March. It was the first time that various levels of

government, the policing community, the financial sector, the real estate sector, public utilities and other stakeholders had been in the same room at the same time. We shared a great deal of

information. We learned of each other's challenges. In the end, we agreed that the best way to control these operators was as a unified group.

There was a common theme: the importance of continuing to build our relationships begun at the summit and to share information. We heard what delegates had to

say and we acted accordingly.

That's why, in addition to the legislation I'm introducing this afternoon, I'm pleased to announce that we have implemented another recommendation of the

summit, and that summit will start with the committee tomorrow. I'm sure that when we get their recommendations and we implement them, we will provide a much safer place for the people of

Ontario.

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): I'm pleased today to stand to respond to the legislation introduced by Minister Kwinter. First of all, I'd

like to congratulate the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police, who have been the lead in any type of legislation around marijuana grow ops. I know they developed the Green Tide report, and there

were a number of recommendations in that leading to the summit. Of course, there are some concerns that we have today around the legislation that we expect will be answered in any type of committee

hearings that may be held.

First of all, I see this today as a zero-dollar announcement for law and order in this province.

First of all, I believe as part of the government's election platform they did call for 1,000 new police officers. Once this bill does become law, police in

this province will be expected to do more with less, unless we see more police officers announced. The legislation will place an even greater demand on police without providing any more human

resources and funding as well.

The one thing I'm not sure of -- and we just got a pile of documents from the minister's office -- the legislation, I believe, targets only residential indoor

grow ops. I'm not so sure it includes factories or grow ops like we saw at the former Molson brewery in Barrie, Ontario, that drew a lot of attention to the grow ops. First of all, I think we have

to have an explanation. If it doesn't include those types of facilities, why not? That is where the bulk of the marijuana is grown in indoor facilities.

If the government is really serious about the issue, they should be targeting the drug criminals with tougher sentencing, not the threat of someone pulling a

hydro switch. The minister talks about doubling the penalties under this legislation for contraventions of the Ontario fire code, but what about penalties under the Criminal Code, and what is the

concern for tougher sentencing?

I have to go for just a moment to the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police resolution in June 2003. It says:

"Be it resolved that" the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police "call upon the Premier of Ontario to represent the interests of the law enforcement and

marijuana."

And another question I have to ask is if the minister has consulted on what the federal government is doing about the decriminalization of marijuana. We have

no idea what they are doing. I know I'm out of time, and Mr Jackson wants to respond as well.

ELDER ABUSE

Mr Cameron Jackson (Burlington): Truly, all members of this House will support an elder abuse day. Frankly, to the point, every day should be

elder abuse awareness day in this province, and I know we agree on that.

I had hoped that the minister might have taken the occasion to talk about a whole series of programs that were implemented by our government. We're very proud

of those, and I'm sure all members of the House are proud of these initiatives.

First of all, the elder abuse strategy, the first of its kind in the world, presented by Dr Elizabeth Podnieks on behalf of our government in Spain two and a

half years ago: She has not been given the assurances that the $4.3 million we committed, and she's been spending, will be renewed.

The Alzheimer's strategy, the first of its kind in North America: Again, a five-year commitment of $68 million. We have not yet heard from the government on

that.

Hang Up On Fraud and Phonebusters, a joint US-Ontario initiative with the OPP and police: No word on that.

Telemarketing screening registry for seniors: No word from the government on that.

The tele-senior program to file objections for age discrimination: We are waiting to hear on that.

The Ontario Residential Care Association's seniors' retirement home complaint registry line: No response from the government.

The seniors' safe medication program with the Ontario Pharmacists' Association: We are still waiting to hear from the government if they are going to support

the program.

The Memory Project of the Dominion Institute, recognizing the sacrifice of our veterans, and the expansion of women's shelters with staff training designated

for seniors' beds: These are initiatives started by our government that all members of this House support, and we're anxious to hear from the government.

I've mentioned Dr Elizabeth Podnieks, and I think she should be acknowledged today. I'm disappointed that for whatever reason she cannot be here today. She is

considered a world expert, and she has led us in a direction that has made our province a better and safer place to be.

Finally, if you are going to list the accomplishments of your government, let's remind seniors that you are in fact increasing their hydro bills; you took away

their Ontario home property tax relief, netting them out -- about a thousand dollars more you're costing the average senior in this province; and you removed OHIP coverage for chiropractic and

physiotherapy.

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): New Democrats are pleased to express our abhorrence for elder abuse. New Democrats have been consistent and

clear in advocating and supporting reforms and agendas which protect our parents and our grandparents.

We hear from the government in its statement today that it's concerned about the well-being of seniors. If you're concerned about the well-being of seniors,

why don't you keep your promise to ensure that our folks and grandfolks in long-term-care facilities are given a minimum of two baths per week while in those facilities? You say you're concerned

with our seniors. Then why don't you keep your promise to ensure that there are registered nurses on duty 24/7 in our long-term-care facilities? You say you are concerned about our seniors. Then

keep your promise to maintain and sustain 2.25 hours of hands-on care per day for our folks and grandparents in long-term-care facilities.

You say you are concerned about our seniors, yet your privatization-of-electricity agenda is forcing hydro rates to skyrocket so that increasing numbers of

seniors are going to be forced into homelessness because of your very specific policy around hydro privatization.

You say you're concerned about seniors, but the McGuinty Liberal government is clawing back $200 million under the drug benefit plan, which will deny so many

of our seniors life-sustaining medication, prescription drugs that doctors will be encouraged not to prescribe them.

You say you're concerned about our seniors, yet you are pursuing the Conservative agenda of the privatization of our home care system so that valuable,

historic, long-time home care providers from the non-profit sector, like the Victorian Order of Nurses and Red Cross nurses, are being knocked out of their jobs and replaced by for-profit, more

often than not American-based, privatized so-called home care companies.

I say this government, if it's really concerned about seniors, will get busy with a meaningful investment in those things that would make seniors' lives truly

more productive and healthier. This government isn't part of the solution; it's been part of the problem.

MARIJUANA GROW HOUSES

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): Let me say to the Minister of Community Safety: Here we have it, Reefer Madness,

part II. I want the

minister to understand that the sequel is never as good as the original film.

Look, you want to make our communities safer? I say to the Minister of Community Safety, this government should keep its promise to put 1,000 new cops on the

streets of Ontario. That will make our communities safer. That will give people more confidence in their safety and security in their communities.

Minister, you can't flog this horse any more. The horse is not even at the gate. People don't believe this government when it tries to divert their attention

and focus their attention on a problem that the police already have the legislation to deal with. The problem is, and you well know it and the cops out there on the streets know it, that there are

simply not enough police officers and enough police resources to effect the investigations, the arrests and the subsequent prosecutions that they have to to bring these offenders into hand. In

fact, there are credible newspaper columnists -- not me, mind you, but credible newspaper columnists -- who are querying, questioning, has this minister been accessing the evidence locker and

getting his stash out of some of the proceeds of those raids? I mean, the question's been asked, Minister: What is it that you're smoking?

People are concerned about kids out there shooting each other with guns. People are concerned about the highways of this province and the absolute lack of

policing on those highways, the 400 series highways among others. People are concerned about backlogs once again in our courts that lead the courts increasingly into encouraging plea bargaining so

that serious offenders, including offenders against spouses and domestic partners, including the perpetrators of serious assaults, are being encouraged and facilitated as they plead in to lesser

and lesser offences. People are concerned in this province about a correctional system that's being privatized, not only putting correctional officers at risk but putting communities at risk.

People are concerned when a minister of children's services assists Syl Apps down in Oakville in breaking the union of 140-plus trained, skilled public sector union workers there so that a

privatized operation is being paid as much as $600 a day to care for each one of their charges.

New Democrats will do everything we can to make our communities safer. We won't participate in this government's fear campaign and in its bizarre attempt to

divert attention from its defaults and its defects.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Thank you. Deferred votes? It's time for --

Mr Kormos: On a point of order, Mr Speaker: I seek unanimous consent for this Legislature to direct the government to have its committee

promptly inquire into the causes and reasons for the termination of the employment of the vice-president of Toronto's major hospital and to begin meeting in that regard promptly.

The Speaker: The member from Niagara Centre requests unanimous consent to move this motion. Do I have the consent of the House? No.

ORAL QUESTIONS

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

Mr Robert W. Runciman (Leader of the Opposition): My question is to the Minister of Health. I want to spend some time dealing with the way you

treat people, specifically men and women in our hospital sector. In the press today, you're quoted as saying that you'd be hard-pressed to recall yelling at or bullying members of the health care

sector. You then admitted that you bring, and I'm quoting, "a forceful attitude" to your job. Minister, just how forceful have you been with some hospital stakeholders? Have you yelled at any? Have

you, in one of your forceful attitude moments, physically intimidated someone? Has your approach always been appropriate, Minister?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I have, in the days since becoming Minister of Health, had the opportunity to

engage with countless thousands of stakeholders in the health sector, and my record stands. There is, related to that, a great body of evidence from local community newspapers talking about the

visits I've made to, I think, about 40 or 45 hospitals in Ontario.

I appreciate the question from the honourable member because he's trying to change his spots. It seems interesting to have a question from a gentleman who has

earned a certain moniker for his time in politics, but more importantly, he served with pleasure and pride, I think, in a government that went to such an extent possible that they demeaned nurses

and called them Hula Hoops.

Mr Runciman: I could be forceful, but not with my stakeholders. I didn't hear an answer to a very direct and important question.

There's a growing cloud over this minister. Good people are concerned about his approach, his efforts to intimidate, and a spreading culture of fear he is

spawning in the hospital sector. We are hearing from a significant number of hospital officials that they consider your personal approach abrasive and confrontational. It's one thing to be

forceful; it's quite another to be in-your-face belligerent and threatening. That's what we're hearing. That's the Smitherman approach.

Minister, your officials have expressly prohibited hospitals from being critical of your government in terms of their balanced budget plans. Why are you

muzzling hospital officials and forbidding them to talk about the implications of your funding policies? Is this the open and accountable government the Liberal Party promised Ontarians just one

year ago?

Hon Mr Smitherman: I appreciate the opportunity to respond to the question by the honourable member. The fact of the matter is that Ontario

hospitals are, as they always have been, free to communicate in the fashion they see fit. I had the opportunity earlier today in conversation with the media, which I think had representation from

opposition parties, to make the point that I felt that if Sick Kids Hospital had, in their own right, chosen to do something related to the employment status of an employee, that was a decision

they took.

Yesterday, I said very clearly and categorically that I had no involvement, that my ministry had no involvement. This has been confirmed by the chair of the

board of that hospital in public comment. Even further, the dance partner of the official opposition lead critic on this item today said there was no proof.

Mr Runciman: I'm glad the minister raised the dismissal of Ms DeGiusti, because that's a concern on this side of the House and is, I believe,

shared by the third party in this place.

The minister attempts to indicate no involvement of his officials. What he is talking about, what he is saying, and we'd like him to be even more explicit, is,

"We had nothing to do with the dismissal of Ms DeGiusti. We didn't demand it."

I ask the minister today, did anyone in your office, in your political office, including your executive assistant or anyone in your ministry, call officials at

Sick Kids expressing a concern about Ms DeGiusti's comments publicly to the Toronto Star? If that call occurred, Mr Minister, and if you take a look at this culture of fear that you've created

within and without the health care sector, if that indeed proves to be the case, if someone in your office or someone in your ministry called Sick Kids expressing concern, if that becomes a public

fact, will you resign?

Hon Mr Smitherman: The honourable member asked a very direct question with respect to the potential involvement of anyone in my office. He

referenced my executive assistant, as an example. The answer clearly is no.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): Minister, yesterday we talked about the devastating cuts you're making to the Queensway Carleton Hospital

and to the Ottawa Hospital, the jobs cuts in Sault Ste Marie and Cornwall and the effects that will have on patient care at the Hospital for Sick Children.

Now we learn in a new report released this week that waiting times in Ontario under your watch are actually on the rise. Do you think that all of these cuts

you're making to health care will actually reduce waiting lists or do you think cutting it will make it better?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): It's only the honourable member who could see $1 billion in new investments in

Ontario's hospitals as a cut. But I find it very interesting, in fact possibly desperate, to see the official opposition clinging to a report by their favourite group, the Fraser Institute, which

in its very own preface to its report says, "The contents of the survey have been evaluated to the extent possible by comparing the survey results to other sources of information."

In the province of Ontario, we inherited a circumstance where the previous government did no preparatory work whatsoever to establish appropriate wait time

registries. But working as we are in concert with the provinces all across the land, with Ontario in a leadership role, building on the strength of what has been done in Saskatchewan, engaging the

efforts of Dr Peter Glynn, the Canadian expert on this, we will make this progress, we'll do it quickly and we'll demonstrate to Ontarians what the real situation is and what results are

proving.

Mr Baird: Thank you, Minister. You can quote from the report. So can I. It says, "Among the provinces, Manitoba achieved the shortest total

wait in 2004 ... with Ontario ... losing the `best access'" record in the country. Let's look at the --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order, member for Nepean-Carleton.

I hope I get the same co-operation I got from the opposition when you were answering the question. I'm not getting that. I'd like to hear the member for

Nepean-Carleton put his supplementary question.

Mr Baird: Waiting lists for referral to a specialist have gone from 7.1 weeks to 8.2 weeks. Weeks waited to receive an MRI have gone down in

recent years but are now on the rise by a 20% increase on your watch.

Minister, will you now not admit that your cuts to hospital funding, well below the rate of inflation, have made it intolerable for hospitals? Nurses will lose

their jobs and waiting lists will continue to rise. Will you now stand in your place and admit the folly of your ways and that you have to invest more money in our public hospitals? Would you do

that, Minister?

Hon Mr Smitherman: We are investing more money in our public hospitals, $700 million more than your Magna budget called for. And the continued

reliance of this party on the Fraser Institute, which itself is a proponent of two-tier medicine, is the very example of where that party, in government, acted and where that party, under the

leadership of John Tory, stands.

Mr Baird: You have no benchmarks for which the people of Ontario can hold you accountable.

There is an alternative. You've already proven in this House that you're not prepared to invest anywhere near a major part of the money from the new health

care premium in our hospitals. You've said you will not spend a dime of the old federal health money in our hospitals. But, Minister, there is a way. There is $825 million of new funds flowing to

our health care system in Ontario. What we need is that there has to be a will for there to be a way. What we seem to lack in Ontario is a Minister of Health who will stand up and advocate for our

public hospitals. Of that $825 million of new, unallocated money, will you stand in your place and say you will put a majority of those funds to work for patients in our public hospitals, and if

you won't, will you step aside and let someone else do the job?

Hon Mr Smitherman: The honourable member continues to demonstrate a lack of awareness about the Ontario health care system, that it's a system

and that all of its parts must, for once, be funded appropriately and function together. The member continues to rely upon hospitals because this is the legacy of their party while in government.

For the first period of time, in two out of the first three years, they cut hospital funding by $557 million, and in the last five years of their mandate, at the extraordinary expense of all other

services, while the provision of doctors' services declined because they wouldn't fund an appropriate number of them, they threw all the money they had at hospitals.

The point is very clear: For two years they cut hospital funding by $557 million. Subsequently, they made investments only for hospitals and at the expense of

all other parts of the health care system. We've made an investment in the transformation of health care, moving forward with community-based investments designed to provide care for people where

they need it, earlier on and not just in hospitals. There is more to a health care system than hospitals.

Interjection.

The Speaker: Order, member for Nepean-Carleton. New question.

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Minister of Health. Your bullying has created a climate of fear in Ontario

hospitals, and it has cost the Hospital for Sick Children's child advocate, Cyndy DeGiusti, her job. Today's Toronto Star says that DeGiusti was forced out after blowing the whistle about cuts to

hospital services for kids. DeGiusti was given no choice by hospital management because you and your government are pressuring the hospital to keep quiet about cuts to hospital services. Yesterday

we asked you to call an emergency committee meeting to find out the details of why she was forced out. Earlier today you said it was wrong that she was forced out. Well, if you admit it's wrong,

are you prepared to hold the committee meeting so we can find out the murky details of why somebody so dedicated was forced to leave her job?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): It's a very interesting approach that is being followed by the third party

today around the Legislature of Ontario. Now we have this question by the leader of the third party that stands in rather sharp contrast to the comments of his very own critic, who said, "I have no

proof that he caused the tension." The record is clear on this subject. The Sick Kids Hospital board chair has clearly said there was no involvement whatsoever from the ministry. I answered a very

direct question, with respect to the involvement, by the acting legislative leader of the official opposition. More to the point, it's very clear that in the province, Ontario's hospitals are

independent corporations. They make their own decisions with respect to hiring and firing and the conditions under which people operate. What I said this morning was that if they have acted at Sick

Kids Hospital in response to a newspaper story, they did so on their own, and that if the decision they took was on that basis, I felt it wasn't right.

Mr Hampton: You can't fob this off on to the hospital, because as the Toronto Star correctly notes, this view that you are bullying and

intimidating hospital administrators was backed up by two senior hospital administrators interviewed by the Star, both of whom asked not to mention their name. "`Everybody is chilled, there will be

consequences for not toeing the line,' said one administrator." You know that your government issued instructions to hospitals telling them that when they issue communications about your budget

strategy for hospitals, they had better not disagree, they had better toe the government line. You said earlier today that it's wrong for Cyndy DeGiusti to lose her job. What is your government

going to do about it? Will you hold a committee meeting to determine why someone so dedicated was forced out after she dared criticize your government?

Hon Mr Smitherman: I'm very happy to repeat to the honourable member what I've said several times now, and that is what is obviously the

situation at hand. Sick Kids Hospital, like about 153 other hospitals in the province, is an independent hospital corporation. They make their own decisions. They perhaps did so -- what I've said

is if they made a decision because they were in some sense unsettled by the newspaper story, then I believe that they've acted wrong. I've said very, very clearly -- in a media scrum earlier today

that was attended by representatives of both parties -- that all across Ontario, hospitals are engaged, many of them, in a very public conversation about the challenges we're working on

together.

But the key point is that we are working on these things together, that we've extended to 18 months the period to get budgets into balance at the very direct

request of Ontario's hospitals. We have a process that is established. It has seven points to it. We're at the very earliest stages of it, and rather than being engaged in this kind of innuendo

conversation like the honourable members want, what we're involved in is rolling up our shirt sleeves and working with hospitals to get them in balance over a period of 18 months through a very

well-developed process that the hospitals themselves have helped to develop.

Mr Hampton: This is indeed curious. The minister says that this person shouldn't have lost her job at Sick Kids Hospital. We've got other

hospital administrators across the province saying, "Everybody is chilled, there will be consequences for not toeing the line" -- the McGuinty government line.

Minister, I remember when you and Dalton McGuinty used to criticize the Conservatives for bullying and intimidation, but here is the situation: She criticizes

your government on Saturday and says that this is going to result in cuts in hospital services for children. On Monday she loses her job. On Tuesday, a source says she was forced out by the

hospital.

You now say it's wrong. Well, Minister, if it's wrong, will you join with us in asking the hospital to reverse the termination of this dedicated advocate for

children at Sick Children's Hospital?

Hon Mr Smitherman: In exactly the same way that it would be inappropriate for me to seek the removal of an employee, it is of course not my

place to get involved and to tell someone that they should rehire them.

However, I put on the public record my view -- and it is the view of our government -- that if Sick Kids Hospital acted as they did on their own, as the board

chair has clearly said, in a fashion that was related to this story, which has not been confirmed, but if they did do that, then I've said it's my view that this isn't right, I don't condone it and

that they should take appropriate action. But very, very clearly, under all the laws of the province of Ontario, it is their action to take.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): To the Minister of Health: It's not just hospital administrators at Sick Kids. It's hospital

administrators across this province who are afraid to speak out, and the Toronto Star correctly records that. They won't talk, and this is particularly true in northern Ontario, where 80% of

northern hospitals are forecasting they will have to make cuts this year. Four out of every five hospitals in northern Ontario will have to make cuts because you are strong-arming them without

giving them proper funding. That will mean that northern Ontario residents will have to wait longer for health services and will see some of those hospital services disappear.

So I'm asking not just with respect to Cyndy DeGiusti but with respect to all of these hospitals that are now facing cuts: Will you stop your bullying and will

you recognize that they can't continue with the kind of budget restrictions you're putting on them now?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I would say to the honourable member that I'm working very closely with my

caucus colleagues from northern Ontario. I recognize that there are particular challenges for the smallest and most rural hospitals in our province, because they have a smaller base to spread

administrative costs. We're looking very carefully at this information as it flows back in at this very early stage in the process.

What needs to be repeated, because I think that some members are not necessarily understanding it well enough, is that we have a process that's been

established. We've done that with Ontario's hospitals. We're going to work with them over a period of 18 months to get them in balance, because we think this is a critical advancement for the

future sustainability of our health care system. There's a seven-step process that has been established. We're rolling up our sleeves and getting down to work, and we're doing this on a

case-by-case basis with Ontario hospitals.

The member wants to talk about individual hospitals. I'm very pleased to take that information, and we'll do our best to resolve these situations in a fashion

that is the sustainability of health care.

I would just say to the honourable member, you were part of a government that cut 8,000 hospital beds in our province. But way worse than that, you're the ones

who have led to doctor shortages in the province and you should take responsibility for that action.

Mr Hampton: The Minister of Health says that people don't understand. I think Cyndy DeGiusti understands now. She criticizes the government

and your funding cuts on Saturday, and on Monday she's told, "You're out the door." I think they all understand very clearly now. This is exactly the kind of bullying and intimidation that you used

to criticize the Conservatives for.

Let me give you another example. I could give you examples from Sault Ste Marie, from Sioux Lookout, but I'll take Kapuskasing Sensenbrenner Hospital, as

confirmed in the Northern Times newspaper, where they're facing a 4% budget cut on top of the budget cuts that were forced on them by the Conservatives. Hospital officials say that these cuts are

going to be draconian and extremely frustrating. They will lose some services. Other hospital services people will be forced to wait longer and longer for.

Minister, this hospital wants to know, other hospitals want to know, will you stop your campaign of intimidation and bullying? Will you recognize that these

hospitals can't provide the services on the budget line that you put them on?

Hon Mr Smitherman: First, I remind the honourable member that every hospital in Ontario got more money this year than last year. With respect

to small hospitals, in an earlier supplementary I had an opportunity to speak to that challenge particularly.

But the honourable member, in the run-up to his question, mentioned two hospitals, Sioux Lookout hospital and Sault Area Hospital. These are both hospitals

where in the course of my year in office I've had the opportunity to sit down and meet with the boards. I can assure you that those were productive meetings.

In Sioux Lookout, as an example, I'm particularly committed to the advancement of the Meno-Ya-Win Health Centre because of the work that it does with the First

Nations communities. I believe that that hospital's future in the health care system in Ontario is certainly more secure than the hospitals in Sioux Lookout were under the administration of

previous governments.

I'm acknowledging that we have lots of work to do here, but if we're going to have a health care system, we've got to be able to make it sustainable. That

means making sure that all those non-clinical areas are operating in as efficient a manner as possible.

Mr Hampton: The member mentions Meno-Ya-Win Health Centre in Sioux Lookout. Just after you visited, I got a call from the treasurer saying,

"He doesn't understand how drastically underfunded we are. He doesn't understand how many services we may lose or we may have to cut."

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): Now he's going to lose his job.

Mr Hampton: He can't. He's just a treasurer. He doesn't work at the hospital, so George will have trouble hatching his job.

Let's take St Joseph's Healthcare in Hamilton. Officials say that they have cut all they can already, but you're forcing them to cut another $11.5 million to

meet your budget line.

Then there's the Hamilton Health Sciences centre. They say they will have to cut another $10 million -- cuts that will affect the quality of care for

patients.

Minister, from Kapuskasing to Hamilton to Sick Kids, hospitals are reeling from your misguided hospital funding policies. Will you stop the intimidation and

the bullying and recognize that there's a serious problem here and you have to fix it now?

Hon Mr Smitherman: I know the honourable member wants to demand a resolution to this on his terms, and right now too. But the fact of the

matter is that we have established a process. It's going to take place over 18 months and it's got a variety of elements to it.

On the issue that the honourable member raises about Meno-Ya-Win Health Centre, it's interesting that treasurer would have that view. But what I'm working

toward is a meeting that will take place including federal officials. Meno-Ya-Win Health Centre is particularly complex as it's the merge, if you will, between a federally funded hospital and a

provincial one. I'm of the opinion that that hospital, when we are completed with our work, will stand out as a centre of excellence in the province of Ontario for aboriginal health care. I'm very,

very proud of the work we're doing on that. I know the member takes a keen interest in it as it's in his riding.

What I think it makes the point about --

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Thank you.

Hon Mr Smitherman: -- is we have 154 unique hospital corporations. We're going to work through these on a case-by-case basis over a period of

18 months. None of the cuts or what have you that the member has raised have taken effect and they will not until such time as we've had a chance to review the plan.

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

Mrs Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): My question is also to the Minister of Health. Despite your vehement denials, organizations, groups

and individuals continue to tell us about your bullying behaviour, behaviour that I can tell you is creating an atmosphere of fear and intimidation in the health sector. It gives the clear

impression that any negative comments could come at a price. In fact, today we read in the Toronto Star that this view is backed up by two senior hospital executives. Indeed, one said, "Everybody

is chilled, there will be consequences for not toeing the line." Minister, do you think it is appropriate behaviour for you, as a minister of the crown, to create such an atmosphere of fear and

intimidation?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I find it interesting that a member in the same parliamentary caucus as the

member from Simcoe-Grey would be there. It's interesting to note a quote of his from the legislative Hansard of October 10, 2002, "Minister Threatens to Fire Bureaucrats." Here's the quote:

"Northern Development and Mines Minister Jim Wilson says he will fire any health ministry bureaucrats who talk to opposition critics.

"`It's not a threat, it's a promise,' Wilson told the Legislature yesterday."

The point here is that in the course of serving in the role of Minister of Health for --

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order.

Hon Mr Smitherman: In the course of serving as Minister of Health for a year, I've had countless hundreds of opportunities to meet with

thousands of health care stakeholders. I believe the member significantly misses the point about the work we're doing, and I believe the record demonstrates that.

Mrs Witmer: I think this minister needs to recognize that he's now the government, and that the atmosphere of fear and intimidation that has

been created in the health sector, particularly the hospital sector, has been created by himself. I ask you, Minister -- this is a very serious question -- why are there so many people in the

health sector who are afraid or feel intimidated or threatened about saying anything in public that is critical of your ministry or this Liberal government for fear of retribution?

Hon Mr Smitherman: Here again the member reminds me that I am now in government because she seeks to have her record from government absented

from the discussion. But I think it's helpful to put on the record that in her government's time in office, in the Ministry of Health they went to the extraordinary action of appointing nine

supervisors. What is a supervisor? A supervisor is the application of the powers of nuclear weaponry by the Minister of Health. They move in and wipe out hospital boards and CEOs all at once. This

is the record of that party while in government: nine times local accountability and governance gone, local leadership gone. Now they suggest that, because we're seeking to bring about change in

the health care sector, we have a record that is really their record.

The fact of the matter is, we've got some difficult work to do. We're doing that hand in hand with Ontario hospitals over the next 18 months on a case-by-case

basis. I believe we're going to make considerable progress for the people of Ontario.

Mrs Witmer: On a point of order, Mr Speaker: This minister doesn't need supervisors. He has Bill 8.

The Speaker: It's not a point of order. New question.

FIRES AT WASTE TRANSFER STATION

Ms Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): I have a question for the Minister of the Environment. A fire that ignited last week at a waste

transfer site still burns in Vaughan. Close to a week later, it continues to blaze, and now contaminated water from the site is flooding the streets and sewers of Vaughan.

Minister, this is Walkerton déjà vu all over again. The telltale signs of a crisis were all there. You were warned about them and did nothing. MOE

has been fielding calls from local residents outraged over the mountains of illegal waste, reaching as high as 10 storeys, growing outside their window. I've also learned that there were compliance

orders issued against the company for violating the amount of waste allowed on the site. With this fire and five fires that went before it in the past two months, it is clear that those orders were

not followed up on. Minister, why did you not put a stop to those violations happening under your watch?

Hon Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of the Environment): I think that it's important to correct the record that, in fact, the orders were followed

up on, charges were laid, and the matter was before the court. The owner of the transfer station indicated in the court that they were in the process of removing that amount of waste that was in

excess of the capacity that the certificate of approval had allowed for. So the Ministry of the Environment had been monitoring it and was of the opinion that at least the proponent was working to

become compliant.

Ms Churley: The minister allowed this illegal waste to stay there after four other fires, and you did nothing: too little, too late. You

failed to act, and you caused this fire to happen as a result. The constituents of your colleague the finance minister are now paying the price for your inaction. With the cuts the finance minister

has planned for your ministry, more environmental disasters are in the works, just like under the Tories. That's what happened with Walkerton.

During the campaign, the Liberals promised to protect the environment. Remember? "Choose change." But without field staff who are on the ground and ready to

respond, there will be more disasters like Vaughan. Vaughan regional councillors have said that ministry staff must be available to respond in real time to prevent fires like this from recurring,

but their own MPP the finance minister has ordered a further 12% cut to the MOE.

Minister, will you, as the minister responsible, stand up for your ministry and real environmental protection and demand that the Minister of Finance restore,

not rescind, funding to the Ministry of the Environment?

Hon Mrs Dombrowsky: The Ministry of the Environment was prosecuting the owner of this site in the courts, and the owner of the site indicated

in court records that it was in the process of cleaning up the site. When the fire occurred -- and this does happen from time to time in transfer sites -- the Ministry of the Environment was there

with the SWAT team to ensure that there was no further garbage being brought into the site.

Today, we are requiring the proponent, the owner of that site, to provide us with its plan to show us when they will be in compliance. We are not allowing any

more waste to go to that site until the proponent, the owner, can demonstrate how they are going to comply with their certificate of approval. So I would say that this government continues to be

diligent to protect the environment for the people of Ontario.

MARIJUANA GROW HOUSES

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): My question is for the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services.

Minister, today you introduced legislation announcing tough new measures against indoor marijuana grow operations. This is an extremely serious issue in my

riding, along with many ridings in the province of Ontario.

As a result of profitability and relatively low penalties involved, grow ops have become a thriving provincial, illegal and dangerous, industry. Indoor, mostly

residential, operations allow for year-round cultivation and better protection from law enforcement agencies and poachers in neighbourhoods.

Grow ops bring criminal activity right into neighbourhoods and raise a host of community safety issues. For example, they bypass hydro power and use it for

their sources, making it structurally impossible to deal with it after the house is sold. Floor-to-ceiling ventilation systems create a very high mould problem. Concentrated fertilizers, pesticides

and chemicals are carelessly stored and often disposed of in sewers across the province.

Finally, most grow operations can be linked to organized crime. Their presence in the community can result in street crimes, home invasions and dangerous booby

traps for our officials. Minister, can you indicate what legislation it is hoped will come after the work we did in opposition to try to correct this problem, which wasn't done by that party?

Hon Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): I thank the member from Brant for his question. I think it's

important to know that the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police and AMO are the people that really brought this to the attention of the government. They have determined, because of their

experience, that this is a major, major problem in their communities. They've asked us to do something to help them stamp out what has become an epidemic. As a result of that, as a result of the

Green Tide report of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police, as a result of the Green Tide Summit that we hosted, we have come forward with initiatives that will address some of these

concerns. That is why this is so important. And what we are going to do is address the idea of the fact that hydro is a safety issue. There are houses that are burning down as a result of

gerrymandering of the wiring. It's a matter of inspectors being able, once the police have identified a house as a grow op, to go in and make sure that the degradation of that house is corrected.

We're providing legislation that will allow us to seize assets that are used in a crime --

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Supplementary.

Mr Levac: Thank you very much, Minister. I know that the organizations that we were involved with when we discussed this in opposition are

extremely pleased to know. We have many, many organizations in the province, including the RCMP, the OPP and all of those law enforcement officials, that have been longing for some kind of action

against these grow houses. Quite frankly, our municipalities are at wits' end in terms of how to save and protect our residents that live in these areas, including the real estate agencies that

have very large difficulty in repossessing and turning these homes back into viable operations.

Minister, what other things are happening within your ministry so that we can clarify once and for all that this is not just one bill for one action, but that

many, many people have participated in these particular actions and also ask us quite clearly what else we can do to help put these things down and get rid of organized crime in the province of

Ontario?

Hon Mr Kwinter: Again I thank the member for his question. What we have is this Green Tide action group, which is made up of people like real

estate agents, insurance brokers, bankers -- the people that come in and are directly impacted by the results of these crimes. Now, there are two elements. One is criminal and the other is public

safety. We are determined that we will bring forward this legislation, which will give all of those people -- the law enforcement officers, the utilities, all of the other people that are impacted

-- the necessary tools to allow them to help stamp out what has become a scourge in Ontario.

GOVERNMENT PUBLICATION

Mr John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): My question is for the Chair of Management Board. Yesterday I received a copy of this Liberal

propaganda disguised as a government report. This glossy brochure is nothing but a piece of partisan literature that surely breaks --

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): Order. If you continue to use that as a prop, I will go to the next question. Would you continue with your

question.

Mr Yakabuski: Minister, this partisan literature surely breaks your election promise and contravenes your own proposed Bill 25. Why would you

authorize the expenditure of public funds for this self-promoting partisan publication?

Hon Gerry Phillips (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): Let's be fairly clear with the public. I think the public expects their

government to produce information indicating where they are in terms of the accomplishments and the results of the plans that they outlined in the budget. So I view this document much as I would a

speech from the throne or a budget. It is simply another document to inform the public of where their government is in terms of achieving the results that were outlined in the budget. You will not

find the Premier's name in there. You will find no pictures of any cabinet minister. You will find no name of any political party. It is simply a document to bring the people of Ontario up to date

as to where their government is, their plans for the future and how they will achieve their objectives. I think it's frankly a good piece of public policy to inform the public that way.

Mr Yakabuski: Minister, you can spin it any way you want and you can paint any pretty picture you want, but that's a very poor illustration of

the last year of Liberal government. This is nothing but a partisan piece of promotional literature. I challenge you to find one remotely negative comment about the Liberals' first year in that

document. It says nothing about a punitive health tax on working families in Ontario. It says nothing about your failure to reduce insurance rates in Ontario. It says nothing about your raise in

hydro rates and it says nothing about bullying hospitals.

Minister, just come clean. Just come clean today and admit that this is a Liberal feel-good document, an abuse of taxpayers' money and yet another broken

promise to the people of Ontario.

Hon Mr Phillips: The public I talk to say, "Listen, we want to know the goals that you are going to achieve, where you stand against them and

the results that we should expect in the future." The public says to me, "I don't want you measuring your success by how much money you spend. I want you measuring your success by what you

achieve," and that they should access the Web site to find it. I think the public expects this.

As I say, it's like a throne speech; it's like a budget. It is another important document produced by a government to outline the goals that they are going to

achieve, the results -- where we are to date -- and what we should achieve over the next few years. I think that is what the public wants. They want the government to commit itself to results, to

measure them, and they want to be told on an annual basis where they are. Rather than being angry and yelling, I think the government is taking the right step to lay out our plans, our results and

the goals that we achieve. I think the public expects that and it's good public policy, as I said earlier.

PUBLIC INQUIRY

Mr Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): A question to the Attorney General: Attorney General, as you know, there are no longer any outstanding

charges in the Project Truth investigation into serious allegations of child abuse and sexual assault on children. There is no longer any excuse for this government to delay the calling of a

commission of public inquiry into the allegations, the investigation and the prosecutions. Will you please stand today and tell this assembly, tell the people of Cornwall, tell those sexual assault

victims, tell those persons charged -- whose charges were withdrawn or stayed -- that you will be announcing a public inquiry under the Public Inquiries Act, with all of its powers.

Hon Michael Bryant (Attorney General, minister responsible for native affairs, minister responsible for democratic renewal): In fact, there

was a finding from the court, but we are in the appeal period right now. We are determining whether or not we are going to appeal that finding, and until that happens, we are not going to speculate

about any next steps. First, we will determine whether or not we are going to continue with this, whether or not we are going to appeal. We are going to review also the decision of the Court of

Appeal for Ontario, wherein the court held that they wanted that trial to proceed as quickly as possible. We'll review that within the 30-day appeal period, and as soon as a decision is made, the

member will be the first to know.

Mr Kormos: Attorney General, please. The court stayed proceedings against the accused, who have been before the court not just for months but

for years, and the court found that the accused did not contribute to the delay.

You know full well what the likelihood is of a successful appeal of that decision by the trial judge. The people of Cornwall were promised by your leader, by

Premier McGuinty when he was campaigning in April 2003 in the city of Cornwall, that there would be a public inquiry. Will you please stand and commit this government today, here and now, to

calling a full inquiry under the Public Inquiries Act upon the expiration of 30 days if an appeal is not launched? The Premier had no hesitation supporting Gary Guzzo's private member's bill

calling for it. It's your turn now to keep this government's promise to those people, those victims.

Hon Mr Bryant: I appreciate that. I thank the member for the question. I'm very aware of these issues. I was a seatmate with John Cleary in

opposition. I am in constant contact with Mr Brownell now, the MPP for that area, and we continue to be fully aware of that commitment. But you do know that until such time as we make a decision,

assess the judgment and determine whether or not we are going to proceed with an appeal, it wouldn't be appropriate to talk about whether we would do that. You know that.

Maybe the member suggests that he has already made a judgment on this. We have not. Once we make a decision with respect to the appeal, then I'll be more than

happy to let this House know and to let the member know, but we will not be rushed into making an assessment on this. We have a 30-day appeal period. We will go through the decision and proceed

accordingly.

SECURITIES INDUSTRY

Mr John Milloy (Kitchener Centre): My question is to the Chair of Management Board in his capacity as the minister responsible for the Ontario

Securities Commission.

Yesterday, the standing committee on finance and economic affairs presented its unanimous report to the Legislature on the securities industry in Ontario. As

the minister knows, in the course of its deliberations, the committee met with industry stakeholders as well as investors, both small and large, to talk about what could be done to improve the

securities environment in the province.

Now that the minister has had an opportunity to receive and review the report, can he tell the Legislature what his plans are in responding to the

recommendations?

Hon Gerry Phillips (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): I want to begin by thanking the committee. It was a unanimous report supported

by all three parties, and I think a very good piece of work. There are 14 recommendations in the report. I have had a chance to review them over the last 24 hours, and I would say that we're

supportive of all 14 of the recommendations, perhaps with some minor variations.

I also wanted to say that I have confidence in the Ontario Securities Commission, but as with any organization, we have to constantly challenge it to get

better. I believe this report provides an opportunity for improvement of the Ontario Securities Commission. So I say to the member that I plan to provide a fairly comprehensive outlook of how we're

going to deal with the 14 recommendations, within the next few weeks.

Mr Milloy: The number one recommendation from the all-party committee was the unanimous endorsement of the government's call for a single

securities regulator. To quote from the report, "The standing committee heard overwhelming support for the principle of a single securities regulator, and strongly supports the concept." Indeed,

the lack of a single securities regulator has been called the most pressing securities issue in Ontario and across Canada.

I'd like to ask the minister what he's doing to further the cause of finding a single securities regulator for Canada.

Hon Mr Phillips: I was pleased to see the committee's recommendation strongly supporting a common or single regulator. I think the Legislature

knows, but perhaps all the public don't, that we're the only country in the world without a common regulator. It is viewed as a very significant economic issue for Ontario and for Canada.

We are very much committed to pursuing it. We're having some challenge persuading the other provinces to do it. I think many of them accept that it is

inevitable but need to see the model that would make it happen. So we will continue to pursue it. My view is that the way to make it happen is to flesh out a proposal that we put forward in early

June, show other provinces exactly how it could work, and they, I think, could see that their concerns could be solved.

As I say, I was pleased to see that as one of the major recommendations in the report. We will continue to work on it. My own judgment is that because it's the

right thing to do, it will happen, and it will happen faster if we work hard at it. That's what we plan to do.

MINISTERIAL CONDUCT

Mr John R. Baird (Nepean-Carleton): My question is to the Minister of Health. Dr Rayudu Koba has been a well-respected chief of staff at the

Northeast Mental Health Centre. Minister, on Wednesday, Dr Koba got up and gave a report that was highly critical of your government's delivery of mental health care services. That was on

Wednesday. On Friday, Dr Koba was suspended by his board.

Is this another example of bullying and pressure tactics, or is it just another example of the environment of fear and intimidation that has reigned in the

health care system on your watch?

Mr Ted Chudleigh (Halton): Another coincidence.

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): Yes. This will be interesting to the honourable member.

Firstly, you got his name wrong. I've had the opportunity to meet this doctor, I think, four times. He's from the Sudbury community. There is no doubt

whatsoever that this doctor is a passionate critic of the policy that your government took with respect to the organization of mental health services in northeastern Ontario. There's no doubt about

it whatsoever.

The information that you provide about whether or not he's on the board any longer is news to me, but it comes as no surprise to me, as this gentleman has been

a very, very passionate advocate of the Sudbury community regaining control over provision of mental health services that your government stripped away from them. I would say to you very clearly

that this is a policy which I'm working on, that I'm reviewing very carefully, with participation from the honourable member for Sudbury and the honourable member for Nipissing, because we want to

do a better job of coordinating the delivery of mental health services in northeastern Ontario.

Mr Baird: I say to the Minister of Health, Dr Koka may have been critical at times of the previous government, but he remained as chief of

staff, supporting mental health services in Sudbury and northeastern Ontario. It was only after he came out against you, your government and your government's policies that the board suspended

him.

You have said, in a very smug and arrogant way, that you've done nothing wrong, and that the environment of fear and intimidation that is so rampant among

health care providers around the province has no basis in fact. This bullygate scandal continues to grow. I want to ask you a very clear and a very simple question: Will you support the call from

the official opposition and the third party for public hearings on this environment of fear and intimidation?

Hon Mr Smitherman: I think you know you're going to have a pretty good day in the House when they just start making stuff up. The fact of the

matter is that in the rush to judgment, instead of picking up the phone and doing a little bit of research to find out that this gentleman didn't just begin to be a critic of the process, that he's

been a long-standing critic of the decisions of your government, you attempt to confuse the subject.

At the heart of the policy matter at hand, we think that there may be some merit to the call he's making with respect to a view of the way we deliver mental

health services in northeastern Ontario. This is a subject that I'm taking in hand, with consultation, alongside the honourable members for Nipissing and Sudbury. I believe that at the end of the

day, a more appropriate public policy resolution may, in fact, meet with his approval.

LABOUR DISPUTE

Mr Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): My question is for the Minister of Health. I want to ask you about North of Superior Programs. North

of Superior Programs provides mental health services, addiction counselling and integrated services for children in communities along the north shore of Lake Superior -- Nipigon, Manitouwadge,

Terrace Bay, Schreiber, Geraldton, Longlac and Nakina. The workers there have now been on strike for quite some time. I believe we're headed into four months. The reason they've been on strike is

because they've not had a pay increase in eight years. Management offered them 0%, and then maybe 2% and 3% in the last two years.

These workers don't want to be on the picket line. They want to be providing those mental health services for children and adults, those addiction services and

integrated services for children, but it's not happening. So I want to ask you, are you prepared to do anything to help settle this labour dispute so that these communities that do not have a lot

of services can have these vital services returned to them?

Hon George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I think we all express similar concern with respect to the patients that are

served by this important agency. This is a matter that the member for Thunder Bay-Superior North has brought to my attention previously. It is the subject of a labour disruption, and as the member

would well know, there is a serious matter at hand that one should not interfere with.

But I do think it's helpful to note that, with respect to mental health, the legacy of those parties was not to fund mental health. This government, in our

budget this year, made a $25-million increase in the provision of mental health services targeted at children, the first base-funding increase for mental health agencies, as I like to say, since

before Bob Rae's hair turned grey.

So I think the point of the matter here is that our government is very committed to the provision of community-based mental health service. We are concerned

about this, but it is the subject of a labour disruption and therefore it would be inappropriate for me to comment further.

Mr Hampton: This is passing strange. When somebody at Sick Children's Hospital criticizes the government on Saturday, they lose their job on

Monday. When Dr Koka, who is very respected in mental health in Sudbury, criticizes you and your ministry over mental health, he is suspended. These workers have been on strike for four months

trying to gain just a fair collective agreement so that they can provide the mental health services people need, and your answer is, oh, you can't get involved. Very passing strange.

If you criticize the government, you lose your job. If you go out and try to demonstrate you're not being treated fairly, the Minister of Health can't get

involved. Very strange. You criticize the government, you lose your job. If you go out and try to bargain decent services and a decent contract, oh, the government can't get involved. Maybe you can

tell us, when do you get involved, Minister? Only when you're firing people or only when you're telling hospital boards, "Don't criticize us"?

Hon Mr Smitherman: I think what's very clear by the honourable member's very question is one element of consistency, and that is, no evidence

or proof whatsoever of any involvement on the part of myself, my staff or my ministry in any of these situations that he so desperately tries to link.

FOREST INDUSTRY

Mr David Orazietti (Sault Ste Marie): My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources. Yesterday the member from Timmins-James Bay had a

press conference regarding Bill 106, which seeks an amendment to the Crown Forest Sustainability Act. Mr Bisson claims this amendment will cause mill closures, layoffs and the creation of

supermills. Minister, will this amendment harm northern Ontario's forestry industry?

Hon David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources): I thank the member from Sault Ste Marie for the question, to clarify obviously a

misunderstanding where the member from Timmins-James Bay has got it wrong again here in the House. I know that in the last session he was puzzled by the number of lines an angler had in his boat,

and I had to explain that to him in the House. In this case, he confuses what the act refers to as facility licences, and that is the sawmills, and the timber licences, which is of course the wood

supply.

There's nothing in that amendment that is going to affect my ability at all, whatsoever, to issue timber licences to companies. In fact, the member knows that

from the authority I have in the act, and that I've done this already in northern Ontario, which we can talk about in the supplementary. We're going to do everything we can with the authority we

have in this act to make sure we have strong and prosperous communities in northern Ontario.

Mr Orazietti: Many northern Ontarians are worried they'll find themselves out of a job because of this amendment. Northern Ontario cannot

afford to lose any more jobs. Can you reassure the people of northern Ontario that this amendment will not result in job loss for those working in the lumber industry?

Hon Mr Ramsay: Again I'd like to thank the member from Sault Ste Marie, who I know is very concerned about the northern economy. I appreciate

his effort to bring clarity to this question in the House today.

I think the other thing the member misunderstands -- unfortunately, in his press conference in Timmins yesterday, he has really started to fearmonger among

workers in our sawmills -- is that he's made the workers believe that, somehow, wood supply is directly tied to communities and to mills. Of course that is not the case. The minister always has the

authority to direct the wood supply to any mill he or she sees fit. The leader of the third party would certainly know that, because he knows that earlier this year I redirected some wood from the

Dryden area to the Ear Falls area, working with the company and the communities to make sure we had a sustainable mill in both communities. The community signed off on that, and now we have

permanent, strong jobs in those communities.

POLICE OFFICERS

Mr Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): My question today is for the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services. Minister, this morning

you announced new legislation to crack down on marijuana grow operations. As I said in my comments, it was yet another zero-dollar announcement for law and order in this province.

It's clear we need more police to combat grow operations, we need more police to fight gang violence, we need more police to stop Internet luring of innocent

children and we need more police to battle global identity theft.

Your government has increased spending this year by over $5.1 billion over last year's budget. Minister, exactly when are we going to see even one of the 1,000

new police officers you promised in the last provincial election?

Hon Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): I find it interesting that the member opposite uses my statement

to make that statement but won't make a statement whether he supports what we're doing about marijuana growers. That's an initiative of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police, and it's been

called for by AMO.

But to answer your question, I'm on the record -- we've said it all along -- that we will fulfill that 1,000-police-officer promise during our mandate. What I

would suggest to you, rather than throwing that out every time there's an issue, is to deal with the issues that we're dealing with so we know where you stand. That's what I'd suggest that you

do.

PETITIONS

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

Mr Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario and it reads as follows:

"Whereas many volunteer fire departments in Ontario are strengthened by the service of double-hatter firefighters who work as professional, full-time

firefighters and also serve as volunteer firefighters on their free time and in their home communities; and

"Whereas the Ontario Professional Fire Fighters Association has declared their intent to `phase out' these double-hatter firefighters; and

"Whereas double-hatter firefighters are being threatened by the union leadership and forced to resign as volunteer firefighters or face losing their full-time

jobs and this is weakening volunteer fire departments in Ontario; and

"Whereas Waterloo-Wellington MPP Ted Arnott has introduced Bill 52, the Volunteer Firefighters Employment Protection Act, that would uphold the right to

volunteer and solve this problem concerning public safety in Ontario;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the provincial government express public support for MPP Ted Arnott's Bill 52 and willingness to pass it into law or introduce similar legislation that

protects the right of firefighters to volunteer in their home communities on their own free time."

It has been signed by over 150 of my constituents, mostly from the Drayton area, and needless to say, I have affixed my signature and I'm in full support of

this petition.

TTC RIGHT-OF-WAY

The Speaker (Hon Alvin Curling): The member for Parkdale -- Davenport.

Mr Tony Ruprecht (Davenport): Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I appreciate that. Your memory goes back a long way. Great.

I have a petition addressed to the Parliament of Ontario and the Ministry of the Environment. It reads as follows:

"Whereas an environmental assessment is underway on St Clair Avenue West to study potential transit improvements, including the possibility of installing a

dedicated TTC right-of-way;

"Whereas the consultation process so far has been in bad faith, top-down and rushed, which has disappointed and angered the local community almost entirely,

and not been up to any acceptable public standards;

"Whereas comments by the chair and the members of the Toronto Transit Commission have made it clear that there is a predetermined outcome to the EA process,

regardless of the objections of the local community;

"Whereas a dedicated right-of-way would force significantly more traffic on to the local streets;

"Whereas safety must be a high priority for any alternative selected and, according to the ambulance and fire department staff, they don't like to work with

right-of-ways;

"Whereas a right-of-way would lead to the reduction or elimination of on-street parking on St Clair Avenue West;

"Whereas traffic bottlenecks at certain intersections and underpasses are already terrible, and certain chronically problematic intersections and underpasses

could not stand to lose any one of the existing two lanes;

"Whereas there is no guarantee that a dedicated right-of-way will improve transit service substantially, as the number of streetcars serving the street will

actually be reduced;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, strongly urge the Minister of the Environment to order a full environmental assessment on St Clair Avenue West, one that

genuinely consults and takes into consideration the views and opinions of the local community."

Since I'm in agreement with this, I'm delighted to sign it as well.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr John O'Toole (Durham): It's my pleasure to present a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas recreational trailers kept at parks and campgrounds in Ontario are being assessed by the Municipal Property Assessment Corp (MPAC) and are subject to

property taxes; and

"Whereas owners of these trailers are seasonal and occasional residents who contribute to the local tourist economy without requiring significant municipal

services; and

"Whereas the added burden of this taxation will make it impossible for many families of modest income to afford their holiday sites at parks and

campgrounds;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, respectfully petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That these seasonal trailers should not be subject to retroactive taxation for the year 2003; and that the tax not be imposed in 2004; and that no such tax be

introduced without consultation with owners of the trailers, the trailer parks, municipal governments, businesses, the tourism sector...."

I sign and support this petition on their behalf.

CHIROPRACTIC SERVICES

Mr Bruce Crozier (Essex): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario in support of chiropractic services in the Ontario health

insurance plan that concludes:

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to reverse the decision announced in the May 18, 2004, provincial budget and maintain OHIP

coverage for chiropractic services, in the best interests of the public, patients, the health care system, government and the province."

Mr Frank Klees (Oak Ridges): This petition was presented to me by the Bayview North Family Chiropractic Clinic in Richmond Hill and it reads

as follows:

"Whereas the elimination of OHIP coverage will mean that many of the 1.2 million patients who use chiropractic will no longer be able to access the health care

they need;

"Whereas those with reduced ability to pay -- including seniors, low-income families and the working poor -- will be forced to seek care in already

overburdened family physician offices and emergency departments;

"Whereas the elimination of OHIP coverage is expected to save $93 million in expenditures on chiropractic treatment at a cost to government of over $200

million in other health care costs; and

"Whereas there was no consultation with the public on the decision to delist chiropractic services;

"We, the undersigned" -- and there are literally hundreds of signatures -- "petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to reverse the decision announced in

the May 18, 2004, provincial budget and maintain OHIP coverage for chiropractic services, in the best interests of the public, patients, the health care system, government and the province."

I'm pleased to affix my signature and hand this to the page from Oak Ridges, Gabriella Silano.

TUITION

Mr Jeff Leal (Peterborough): I have a petition today to increase public funding for post-secondary education, reduce tuition fees and

reinstate an upfront system of grants for Ontario students. It's to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

Whereas the Ontario Liberal government took an historic step forward by funding a tuition freeze for two years; and

"Whereas a majority of Ontarians support increased public funding for colleges and universities as well as reduced tuition fees; and

"Whereas increasing student debt through income-contingent loan repayment schemes or raising loan limits only increases the cost of post-secondary education

for students from modest means; and

"Whereas per student investment in Ontario still lags gravely behind the vast majority of jurisdictions in North America;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, supporting the Canadian Federation of Students' call to increase funding for colleges and universities and reduce tuition fees

for all Ontario students, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to (

a) reduce tuition fees for all students in Ontario, (

b) increase public funding for post-secondary education to at least

the national average, and (

c) implement an upfront, needs-based grant system for Ontario full-time and part-time students."

LANDFILL

Mr Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): These petitions come from the Caledonia Fair and are signed primarily by cattlemen in Haldimand

county. It's titled,

"Halt Edwards Lake Landfill (Certificate of Disapproval).

"To the Parliament of Ontario:

"Whereas the planned Edwards Lake landfill on Brooks Road, Cayuga, two miles (three kilometres) east of the Grand River, is to be 15 acres (six hectares)

excavated 29 feet (nine metres) deep in an area of wetland/slough forest; and

"Whereas the new Adams Mine Lake Act -- as of June 17, 2004 -- redefines the word `lake' and prohibits any excavation into the water table for landfill larger

than 2.5 acres (1 hectare);

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To issue a certificate of disapproval to halt Edwards Lake landfill excavation."

I agree with the cattlemen and I affix my signature to this.

WORKERS' COMPENSATION

Mr Bruce Crozier (Essex): I have a petition to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario that begins:

"Whereas since Bill 99 was passed in 1997 by the Harris government, the situation for injured workers with respect to income, recognition of their injuries by

the compensation system, treatment by the employer and opportunities for re-employment has dramatically deteriorated..."

It goes on to say after the whereases that:

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To direct the provincial government to immediately:

"Change the name of the Workplace Safety and Insurance Board back to the Workers' Compensation Board;

"Implement full cost-of-living protection for injured workers;

"Establish full coverage for all workers and all work-related disabilities and diseases under the compensation system;

"Abolish experience rating which encourages employers to, and rewards them for, hiding occupational injury and illness by giving them money back from their

premiums;

"Enforce health and safety in the workplace by hiring more inspectors and sending them to workplaces without giving advanced notice to the employer;

"Enforce employer re-employment obligations and abolish provisions which deem workers to be receiving wages from jobs they don't have;

"Conduct a complete review of the workers' compensation system in order to write new legislation which ensures fundamental benefits and rights for workers,

including survivors of workers killed on the job, as called for in the CAW Jobs and Full Compensation platform."

I have signed this petition.

CHILDREN'S HEALTH SERVICES

Mr Jim Wilson (Simcoe-Grey): "Whereas there are approximately 23,000 children and youth in Simcoe county and York region who have special

needs; and

"Whereas approximately 6,000 of these children have multiple special needs that require a range of core rehabilitation services; and

"Whereas children with multiple special needs (and their families) throughout the province access ongoing rehabilitation services that are critical for their

development at children's treatment centres in their area; and

"Whereas there is no children's treatment centre in Simcoe county or York region. For families that can travel, the closest services are in Toronto; and

"Whereas Simcoe county and York region is the only area left in the entire province that does not have access to children's treatment centre services in their

own area; and

"Whereas, the Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care provided funding to the Simcoe York District Health Council for implementation planning for an integrated

children's rehabilitation services system in December 2001, and

"Whereas the implementation plan was submitted to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care in December 2002; and

"Whereas the proposal was reviewed and approved by the appropriate ministries in 2003 and, in August, the Ministry of Health advised the Simcoe county and York

region district health council that the funding had been committed and would be available shortly;

"We the undersigned petition the Legislature of Ontario to release the funding for the children's treatment centre in Simcoe county and York region so that

core rehabilitation services can be delivered to the children and youth in Simcoe county and York region."

I agree with this petition and I've signed it.

ANAPHYLACTIC SHOCK

Mr Dave Levac (Brant): This is a petition from NASK, the area that Mr Bradley represents, the anaphylactic organization there.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas there is no established province-wide standard to deal with anaphylactic shock in Ontario schools; and

"Whereas there is no specific comment regarding anaphylactic shock in the Education Act; and

"Whereas anaphylactic shock is a serious concern that can result in life-or-death situations; and

"Whereas all students in Ontario have the right to be safe and feel safe in their school community; and

"Whereas all parents of anaphylactic students need to know that safety standards exist in all schools in Ontario;

"Therefore

be it resolved that we, the undersigned, demand that the McGuinty government support the passing of Bill 3,

An Act to protect anaphylactic students"

-- my bill -- "which requires that every school principal in Ontario establish a school anaphylactic plan."

I sign my name wholeheartedly to this petition and ask for us to continue the fight.

TAXATION

Mr Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): I'm pleased to present a petition signed by John Bessey and others from Fort Erie, Ontario, that reads as

follows:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the McGuinty government's 2004 budget could increase taxes on working families by an average of $1,200; and

"Whereas Dalton McGuinty promised he would not raise taxes by one penny on working families in Ontario;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"The Dalton McGuinty Liberals should cancel any plans to increase taxes and, if they still plan on raising taxes, hold a referendum according to a law that

Premier McGuinty himself voted for."

In support, my signature.

TUITION

Mr Jeff Leal (Peterborough): "To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the Ontario Liberal government took an historic step forward by funding a tuition freeze for two years; and

"Whereas a majority of Ontarians support increased public funding for colleges and universities as well as reduced tuition fees; and

"Whereas increased student debt through income-contingent loan repayment schemes or raising loan limits only increases the cost of post-secondary education for

students from modest means; and

"Whereas per student investment in Ontario still lags gravely behind the vast majority of jurisdictions in North America;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, supporting the Canadian Federation of Students' call to increase funding for colleges and universities and reduce tuition fees

for all Ontario students, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to: reduce tuition fees for all students in Ontario; increase public funding for post-secondary education to at least the

national average; and implement an upfront, needs-based grant system for all Ontario full-time and part-time students."

DISTRICT OF MUSKOKA

Mr Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): I have several thousand more petitions to keep Muskoka part of northern Ontario. It says:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the district of Muskoka is currently designated as part of northern Ontario; and

"Whereas the geography and socio-economic conditions of Muskoka are very similar to the rest of northern Ontario; and

"Whereas the median family income in the district of Muskoka is $10,000 below the provincial average and $6,000 below the median family income for greater

Sudbury; and

"Whereas removing the district of Muskoka from northern Ontario will adversely affect the hard-working people of Muskoka by restricting access to programs and

incentives enjoyed by residents in northern Ontario communities; and

"Whereas the residents of Muskoka should not be confused with those who cottage or vacation in the district; and

"Whereas this is a mean-spirited, politically motivated decision on the part of the McGuinty government;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"That the McGuinty government maintain the current definition of northern Ontario for the purposes of government policy and program delivery."

I support this petition and affix my signature to it.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

PROFESSIONAL LEARNING PROGRAM

CANCELLATION ACT, 2004 /

LOI DE 2004 ANNULANT LE PROGRAMME

DE PERFECTIONNEMENT

PROFESSIONNEL

Resuming the debate adjourned on June 16, 2004, on the motion for second reading of Bill 82,

An Act to amend the Ontario College of Teachers Act, 1996 to

cancel the Professional Learning Program / Projet de loi 82, Loi modifiant la Loi de 1996 sur l'Ordre des enseignantes et des enseignants de l'Ontario en vue d'annuler le programme de

perfectionnement professionnel.

Ms Kathleen O. Wynne (Don Valley West): I'm very happy to rise in support of Bill 82 today. What this bill, the Professional Learning Program

Cancellation Act -- or, as I like to call it, the Declaring a Truce with Teachers Act -- is about is removing an ineffective irritant that created a poisoned atmosphere in the education system, and

paving the way for the development of a plan that will actually work, because the most ridiculous thing about the PLP was that it wasn't working. Teachers weren't signing up, because it wasn't

working.

I want to just talk a little bit about my own experience. My first child started school in 1984, and my third child graduated in 2002. So between 1984 and 2002

I had an opportunity, as a parent and as an activist and as a school trustee, to watch what was happening in the school system. I can tell you that, after 1995 and into the reign of the previous

government, what started to happen in public education was an atmosphere of toxicity and real hostility.

One of my concerns is that young parents putting their children in public school today, or certainly before we were elected last year, may have gotten a sense

that that was the norm, that the hostility between teachers and government was the norm. In fact, that should not be the case, and what we're trying to do with Bill 82 is move toward a period of

peace and stability with teachers.

This piece of legislation is important in that it signals a willingness on the part of this government to work with teachers rather than to score points at

their expense, and to work in the interests of students. Minister Kennedy encapsulated it when he addressed the House on May 13. He said, "Our policy is one of respect for teachers as

professionals, individuals who conduct themselves in a manner that deserves the public trust. Every Ontario student needs and deserves highly trained and highly motivated people at the front of

their classes."

We completely understand that teachers need opportunities for professional development. What the learning program that was put in place by the previous

government assumed was that teachers weren't responsible. It assumed that teachers would not engage in professional development. It assumed that teachers were not capable of designing their own

plans and taking those courses that they needed. We reject those assumptions. We know that teachers are capable of doing that. We know that teachers can work with us to create a better plan.

This approach of respect comes out of the knowledge that thousands of teachers expressed their concerns with the professional learning program. This change

also shows a willingness to listen to teachers' concerns and to work with them to achieve the best results for Ontario's students. As I said, from my perspective as a school trustee, what I saw was

an unhappy workforce -- increasingly unhappy as teachers struggled to deal with this punitive plan that was imposed upon them. We know that the mood, the environment in the classroom that's created

by the demeanour of the teacher, is incredibly important to the learning environment of students, and that students will do better if teachers feel that they are in an environment that supports

them. What we're trying to do is create that environment.

Mr Speaker, just before I conclude, I want to say I'm going to share my time with Mr Qaadri, the member from Etobicoke North, but I want to make a couple of

more points before he takes over.

As part of this change, on June 19 Minister Kennedy released to the education partnership table a discussion paper on teacher excellence. That discussion paper

talks about a number of initiatives that might replace the professional learning program, because what we've said is, "This isn't working and we need to look at some other options for what might

work." These are the things that are being discussed with the teachers, with administrators, with the education sector. We're looking at mentoring programs for new teachers. We're looking at the

possibility of an induction year, professional development days and enhanced summer programs. In fact, this past summer more than 7,500 teachers signed up and went back to school for training and

reading and math instruction, to be able to serve as teachers for literacy and numeracy this fall.

The proof is in the pudding that there are many, many ways to work with the sector, to come up with a better plan that will work, so that our young teachers

don't leave, because that's the other thing that's happening: Young teachers are leaving the profession. We can't afford to have that happen. So I am very happy to support this legislation. It

paves the way for a very much improved era in public education in Ontario.

Mr Shafiq Qaadri (Etobicoke North): It's a privilege to speak in support of this particular piece of legislation, the Professional Learning

Program Cancellation Act. I'd like to follow in the footsteps set by my colleague, the MPP from Don Valley West, as she renamed this particular act. I would like to designate it the Harmony with

Teachers Act.

I'm reminded of a famous book, subsequently made into a movie, about a very important teacher, a teacher who had a lasting influence on the lives of the young

girls who were entrusted to her. The movie, you'll recall, was The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie. There was a famous saying in that particular movie. She said to her students on the first day, "I am

putting new heads on your young shoulders, and all my pupils will be the crème de la crème."

I think that aspiration is what we in the government of Ontario would like to empower and equip our educational system with. We on the government side --

unlike, for example, the MPP from Oak Ridges, as he clearly demonstrated in his most recent leadership bid -- believe that education in Ontario is a great moral enterprise, not to be made a profit

centre. We would like to foster both partnership and harmony in the educational sector, not, for example, I'll remind this House and the people of Ontario, the idea of creating a crisis, which is

what a previous Minister of Education in the former government did. We are striving to create an atmosphere, a work environment, fostering excellence and professional development.

Precisely what are we referring to in this particular act? First of all, it's the result of broad consultation with the educational communities. They

themselves have called the former piece of legislation "hugely flawed" and a "punitive approach," a punishment from the former government. I think it's well known that the educational sector,

amongst others, was targeted by the previous government. The premise was always one of threat. For example, in this particular piece of legislation, teachers are told they will have to take a

number of courses over a given period of time; otherwise, their licensing body will be instructed by the government to remove their teaching privileges and their certification. This is an enforced

rule which actually overrode the college of teachers' own recommendation. As my colleague has mentioned, this particular program has had minimal enrolment, minimal success and minimal impact and

uptake. To boot, the entire program is nevertheless still paid for by the teachers themselves.

As you'll recall, the teachers of Ontario greeted a then-Minister of Education with tomatoes at a particular event. Perhaps they were speaking and maybe

demonstrating on behalf of a lot of people in Ontario who believe that public education is a moral trust and deserves our best efforts and best practices. As a case in point, 48 work stoppages --

strikes, if you will -- were organized across Ontario under the previous regime in the eight years of the Harris-Eves government. It led to the discouragement of an entire profession.

In its place, we in this government are going to be bringing back harmonized, continuous learning -- as my colleague has mentioned, mentoring programs,

professional development days, and summer programs as well.

To return to that quotation about putting new heads on young shoulders and all the pupils will become the crème de la crème, we in this government

want to work with the educational communities to empower, encourage and equip our teachers to accomplish just that goal.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bruce Crozier): Questions and comments?

Mr Rosario Marchese (Trinity-Spadina): I want to stand up to say that I'm going to be doing my lead this afternoon, for those who might be

watching and are interested in what the New Democrats have to say. I will be commenting on what the Liberal members who have prev