Manitoba Hansard — 8 October 2021 (Sitting 79, 42nd Legislature, 3rd Session)

42-3-79

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXV No. 79 - 10 a.m., Friday, October 8, 2021 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ADAMS, Danielle Thompson NDP ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon. Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon. Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg, Hon. Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott Assiniboia PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan, Hon. Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib.

LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Turtle Mountain PC REYES, Jon, Hon. Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron, Hon.

Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Fort Whyte

3919 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Friday, October 8, 2021 The House met at 10 a.m. Madam Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with ce rtainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Please be seated.

ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 239–The Protest Buffer Zone Act (COVID-19 Restrictions) Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): I move, second- ed by the member for Notre Dame (MLA Marcelino), that Bill 239, The Protest Buffer Zone Act (COVID-19 Restrictions), be now read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Fontaine: I am proud to introduce Bill 239, The Protest Buffer Zone Act (COVID-19 Restrictions), to ensure the safety and well -being of Manitobans seeking care and those health-care providers working tirelessly to provide it.

Not long ago we saw the aggressive acts of anti-vaxxers protesting outside the Health Sciences Centre, harassing patients and staff, deterring many from seeking the care they need. Bill 239 will esta blish a buffer zone around health-care centres, personal -care homes, schools, child-care centres and p ost-secondary in stitutions following suit with Quebec, Alberta and BC, whose governments have brought forward similar legis - lation. I look forward to the unanimous consent of this bill. Miigwech. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 75–The Path to Reconciliation Amendment Act Hon. Alan Lagimodiere (Minister of Indigenous Reconciliation and Northern Relations): I move, seconded by the Premier, that Bill 75, The Path to Reconciliation Amendment Act, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Lagimodiere: Today our gov ernment is proposing amendments to The Path to Reconciliation Act that will affirm in legis lation our commitment to the missing and murdered women and girls calls for justice as a central and guiding aspect of our work.

Manitoba's commitment to recon ciliation is outlined in The Path to the Reconciliation Act, which was the first recon ciliation legislation of its kind in Canada. Under this legislation, Manitoba's efforts are to be guided by the Truth and Reconciliation Commis- sion of Canada's calls to actions and the principles set out in the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. Today's amendments add the MMIWG calls to justice as foundational to guiding our work.

Madam Speaker, addressing violence against Indigenous women and girls and the incidences of missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls is a priority for Manitoba, and it is our intent to continue to take action to pre vent and combat gender -based violence of all forms. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Is the the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Bill 76–The Coat of Arms, Emblems and the Manitoba Tartan Amendment Act Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Premier): I mov ed, seconded by the Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage (Mrs.

Cox), that Bill 76, The Coat of Arms, Emblems and the Manitoba Tartan Amendment Act, be now read for a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Goertzen: I'm pleased to intro duce Bill 76, the coat of arms, emblems and Manitoba tartan amend- ment act. This bill designates the polar bear as an

3920 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2021 official prov incial emblem, making it the second mammal that will be an official emblem of Manitoba. There are few animals that signify the vast terri - tory and the rich natural beauty of northern Manitoba like the polar bear. Tourists come from around the globe to see and to learn about this majestic animal in their natural habitat in Churchill, and this bill will help to build our province's brand as the polar bear capital of the world. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? [Agreed] Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon.

Cameron Friesen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I am pleased to table The Manitoba Court of Appeal Annual Report for the fiscal year 2019-2020. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: And I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Would the honourable Minister for Sport, Culture and Heritage please proceed with her statement. Women's History Month Hon. Cathy Cox (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): I am honoured to rise today in the House today to recognize October as Women 's History Month.

It is an annual tradition for us to celebrate the achievements of women throughout our history and acknowledge the essential role of these trailblazers and the important step they have made in shaping our province 's past and paving the way for future generations. To show our recognition this year, we have re - launched the Empower Awards, which will recognize the exceptional contributions made to our province 's pandemic response. Two deserving Manitoba women, one adult and one youth, will receive this award.

I am delighted to share that many incredible women have been nominated this year, from a variety of areas across Manitoba. The Empower Awards will be held on October 25th, where we will celebrate the nominees and reveal this year's recipients. This month we also celebrate International Day of the Girl. And in 2012, the United Nations declared October 11th as the dedicated day to highlight the role girls play as powerful voices and change in their families, their communities and their nations.

To recognize International Day of the Girl this year, we are pleased to announce financial support for the Manitoba Institute of Trades and Technolo gy to provide a certified secure computer user training program for young women in high school. This program will provide the opportunity for young women to explore career options in cybersecurity while gain ing marketable skills.

It is important to build gender diversity and equity in cybersecurity, increasing the career opportunities for youth and assisting with our economic growth and recovery. * (10:10) This partnership builds on our government 's commitment to advancing economic equality for women, which includes a project that we announced earlier this year with the Manitoba Construction Sector Council. Our government invested more than $600,000 in a multi-faceted skills training program for Indigenous women in northern and remote commu - nities.

The training initiative was designed in collab - oration with the construction industry and includes career exploration, targeted training, mentorship and ongoing career support. I am thrilled to report positive fe edback from these programs so far. In Cross Lake, 16 women have completed the job readiness course and the safety training, four women have already been hired by Midnorth Development Corporation, and the remain- ing 12 moved forward with a blasthole drilling pro- gram. All 12 women graduated and are now employed.

In Fairford, 11 women completed job readiness and safety training and are now in the framer course. They're building their own communities. Madam Speaker, our government recognizes that we must co ntinue to eliminate gender -based challenges and provide supports to empower women and girls to be leading professionals in every sector and industry across our country and province. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Happy International Women's Day and happy Int ernational Day of the Girl.

MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): On October 11th, we will celebrate the International Day of the Girl, a time to reflect on the challenges that young women face every day. In Manitoba, thousands of girls and people who menstruate are unable to go to school throughout their

October 8, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3921 period because they don't have access to tampons and pads. In provinces across the country, including Ontario who just announced their plan today, governments are stepping up to provide free menstrual products in schools, except the PCs here in Manitoba. Three years ago they promised to consider a program for Manitoba schools. They broke that promise, and when the minister responsible was questioned on that broken promise, she offered girls USB sticks. Girls don't need USB sticks. They need access to basic hygiene.

They need a government that values them, that is willing to spend a little money to help them to go to school, to get an education and to reach success. Today I urge the PC government to stop breaking promises to girls and to start doing the right thing for our kids. Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Madam Speaker, I ask for leave to speak in response to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the statement? [Agreed] Ms. Lamoureux: I really enjoy the op portunity to speak every year about International Day of the Girl during Women's History Month.

The reason I like this topic so much is because I personally find my strength, especially here in politics, through feelings of empowerment, and that's what October 11th is all about. Back in 2012, the United Nations declared this momentous day to recognize the need for greater op - portunity for girls and to bring awareness to the impacts of gender inequality. International Day of the Girl focuses on the need of addressing challenges to promote em powerment and fulfilment of human rights.

And this year's theme– Digital Generation, Our Generation–stands for equal access to digital services and opportunities for girls to safely use, lead and design technology. Madam Speaker, the pandemic has further high- lighted the gender divide around connectivity as well as online safety. I believe there is a lot more needing to be done here provincially, and to this day, and right here in Manitoba, women are still less likely to be employed full time, more likely to earn less than their male peers and are underrepresented in trades and leadership roles.

We need to empower girls from a young age to move away from persuasive gender inequalities in society. Girls should be encouraged to pursue their dreams and to call out injustice whenever they encounter it. And gov ernment should invest in improving the quality, relevance and gender responsiveness of teaching and learning. Madam Speaker, there' s still so much more we need to be doing, and I'm hopeful that, as women here in these Chambers and virtually, we can spearhead these issues in a thoughtful and inclusive way. Happy international women's month. Thank you. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Carey Lai Hon.

Jon Reyes (Minister of Economic Development and Jobs): Madam Speaker, today I have the great pleasure of presenting a private member's statement honouring Waverley constituent, pharmacist and my good friend, Mr. Carey Lai. Pharmacists in our province have answered the call to protect Manitoba. Since day one of this pandemic, all pharmacy staff rose to the challenge of providing care to all Manitobans.

Whether it be ensuring medication supply was adequate to the public, helping and training individuals to use life - saving medication to prevent overdoses or providing education to reduce vaccine hesitancy, pharmacy staff in our province truly helped provide such essential resources. As a pharmacy owner and practising pharmacist, he has been leading a team at Leila Pharmacy to meet the needs of our community, especially when it comes to providing counselling, support or vaccinations.

Not only has his team provided COVID -19 vaccination shots to Manitobans, but have successfully held numerous drive -through clinics which provided vaccinations to those who were unable to attend supersites or offices due to anxiety. Mr. Lai and his team also share a desire to support those who live with a disability. His clinic has been able to vaccinate many who do–would have not been able to get their shots via traditional means. Most notably, Mr.

Lai was honoured among with fellow pharmacist and Waverley con stituent, Arnold Chew, to serve as a regional manager on our Province's Vaccine Implementation Task Force for the Leila supersite.

3922 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2021 He started as an immunizer for the task force and then became a clinical supervisor. In May, he was promoted to be a clinic manager and shortly after promoted to oversee the entire ope ration at the supersite. Since September, Mr. Lai has been the regional manager for data quality and insurance. As such, Mr. Lai has truly served the community. Every time I use my vaccine QR code, my heart goes out to Mr. Lai and all other heroes that have tirelessly worked to ensure Manitobans are safe. Madam Speaker, I ask my colleague to join me in honouring Mr.

Carey Lai for his dedication to service and protection during this pandemic. Thank you, Madam Speaker. University of Manitoba Ms. Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): I am pleased to stand today to speak on behalf of 70 faculty members of the University of Manitoba who reside in the Wolseley constituency. The PC government has been interfering in the U of M Faculty Association's free and fair bargaining since 2016, and this has had significant negative repercussions. U of M is facing a crisis: not being able to recruit and retain talent, and lost opportunities for innovation.

Among research -intense universities in Canada, U of M is ranked the lowest f or salaries. Top candidates don' t apply or they withdraw from the recruitment process when they learn about the pay scales. There have been frequent failed searches, which has cost tens of thousands of dollars in the departments of physics, education and business, among others. Nursing faculty are retiring early due to being undervalued and overworked, but the university cannot attract new hires, even though there's an urgent need to train a new generation of nurses.

Asper busi - ness lost 10 faculty mem bers since 2017, and senior scholars are simply applying elsewhere, taking the large grants they hold in health research to other provinces. Indigenous faculty are in high demand nationally, but U of M can't attract or recruit these scholars, which means they cannot strengthen the indigenization of programs such as social work or diversify their faculty overall. All of this has negative impacts on the student experience: undergrads can't get the courses they need and graduate students have fewer opportunities for mentorship and face increasing pressure to leave the province.

Government interference in bargaining has real cumulative impact on students ' education, which is seriously harmed by these recruitment and retention issues. The University of Man itoba is an enormous addition to the greater public good of this province. The positive economic, cultural and social effects that ripple outward from the campus are substantial. Government interference erodes the university at all levels, and thus erodes the status and well-being of– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Boyne Care Holdings PCH Mr.

Blaine Pedersen (Midland): Madam Speaker, history has repeated itself with the first phase of the 105-bed Boyne Care Holdings personal-care home in Carman officially opened August 27th. The original 70-bed Boyne Lodge PCH was built by the community in 1967. Care needs, population growth and an aging facility–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Pedersen: –were determining factors to build a new facility. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. * (10:20) Mr.

Pedersen: The municipalities of Carman, Dufferin, Grey, Roland and Thompson worked together in creating Boyne Care Holdings and, together with private donations, have raised in excess of $17 million of the total $39 million project cost. This new facility co ntains eight pods of nine to 10 residents. Each pod features individual bedrooms and bathrooms with a lounge area and a kitchen for light dining. The exterior patios, walkways and park- like atmosphere create a pleasant experience for residents, families and staff alike.

Phase 2 has begun, with renovations to the existing Boyne Lodge building adding an additional 26 beds in the same pod- like structure on the second floor with offices and administration on the first floor.

October 8, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3923 Phase 3 calls for modernizing the adjacent Boyne Towers senior 's apartment to an aging- in-place facility. Thank you to the five communities, the private donors and the Manitoba government for making this facility become a reality. This new facility is unique to Manitoba, not only in design, but in the collabor - ation between the Province, Southern Health- Santé Sud, the municipalities and the residents of the surrounding communities.

Our seniors deserve our care after spending a lifetime contributing to our com munities, and these new facilities will ensure this care for the future. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Stephen Mymko Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): Today I rise to honour a great Manitoban and fellow citizen of Transcona, Stephen Mymko, better known as Steve. In my previous career as a teacher in Transcona, I had the privilege of working with two of Steve 's daughters, Brittany while I was at Arthur Day and Danielle while I was at John Gunn.

Steve is a tireless com munity volunteer who began giving his time as a 16- year-old at Gatewa y where he coached hockey and softball. In his early 20s, as he was just starting his family, he moved into Transcona and began this sort of journey around to check out the diamonds. He noticed that they were in poor repair and set out to do something about it.

Madam Speaker, what first began as an effort to improve baseball diamonds in east Winnipeg soon grew into a desire to create the East Winnipeg Sports Association and a brand- new recreation park complete with not only baseball diamonds but also soccer pitches, ultimate Frisbee fields, a tobogganing hill, walking paths and meeting place where all could gather. In order to fulfill this dream, Steve needed to go out and seek funding for this complex. He personally applied for and wrote numerous grant a pplications, began to court the local business community for sponsorship dollars.

After meeting with people at Buhler, Casera Credit Union, New Flyer, Winnipeg Foundation, Manitoba Liquor & Lotteries, Waste Connections, Qualico and numerous other sponsors, Steve was able to gather the necessary support to begin to construction of this state-of-the-art recreation facility that services all of Winnipeg and the surrounding area. What makes this park truly unique, however, is the concerted effort to create a n atural habitat for the area flora and fauna.

All along its walking paths, you will now see and experience a wide variety of birds, wildlife that have returned to an area that was once degraded farmland and barren landscape. Madam Speaker and members of th is Assembly, please join me in congratulating Stephen for his years of volunteer work and for the creation of the Buhler Recreation Park. Allen Dowhan Mr. Brad Michaleski (Dauphin): The city and constituency of Dauphin lost a strong community advocate and true friend with the passing of Mayor Al Dowhan on 'semptember' 21st, 2021.

The many great qualities that Al lived by every day were instilled at a early age while growing up in Winnipegosis, Manitoba. The importance of hard work, family, education, community, respect and culture guided Al, and, in return, Allen inspired countless others to do the same. Allen attended his first City of Dauphin council meeting in November 1998 and was named deputy mayor in 2001, 2002 and again from 2010 to 2017, before serving as mayor.

During his 23 years as elected municipal representative, Al served 'tirely'–tirelessly as a proponent for sustainability, and under his guidance, Dauphin was awarded the 2017 Manitoba Sustainable Community award. On top of his sustainability focus, Allen was also an active volunteer and community builder and strived to make his com munity a better one in which to live and raise families. Following graduation at Winnipegosis Collegiate, Allen held careers in both finance and teaching , and was awarded the Lifetime Achievement Award from the Society of Management Accountants.

In 1986, Allen' s love of education led him to accept a teaching position at Dauphin' s Assiniboine Community College. For the next 25 years, Allen served to advocate strongly for investment and development of skills, training and post secondary opportunities at the Parkland campus. As a citizen and as an elected official, Allen Dowhan most certainly contributed significantly and positively towards the vitality and strength of community spirit that the Dauphin region is known

3924 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2021 for, and he leaves a proud legacy of love, selflessness and pride towards community building. Madam Speaker, Manitoba lost a strong commun- ity leader in Allen Dowhan. Al's sense of 'huvour' and never-ending determination to make Dauphin a better place for everyone will be missed. ORAL QUESTIONS Manitoba Hydro Cost of Labour Dispute Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Brian Pallister attacked Manitoba Hydro at every turn.

H e froze the wages of workers and he caused a months -long strike at Hydro that nobody in the province wanted–nobody except for the PC MLAs on the other side of this House. And today we finally know how much this strike cost Manitobans: it cost $18 million–$18.4 million. That's how much this Hydro strike cost Manitobans. Will the PC MLAs opposite simply do the right thing and pay it back now? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Premier): I ap preciate the member opposite raising a question about Manitoba Hydro.

Madam Speaker, I would implore the NDP to continue to raise questions about Manitoba Hydro because it gives us an op portunity to remind Manitobans what they did to Manitoba Hydro: billions of dollars wasted on putting a transmission line on the wrong side of the province. And I understand why the member opposite is upset and I understand why he yells, Madam Speaker. He's trying to stop Manitobans from remembering, remember the billions of dollars that were wasted, that has put Manitoba Hydro in jeopardy. We've dedicated ourselves to fixing the finances of Manitoba Hydro. We 'll continue to do that work.

It'll take us a long time and we 'll continue to ensure that Manitoba Hydro is there for–a public entity for all Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honour able Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: You know, the frustrating thing about the PCs is that they 're so wasteful with the money of hard-working Manitobans. I just can't stand it. We on this side of the House simply will not abide by it.

We have the docu ments that prove, Madam Speaker–in fact I'll table the documents for the benefit of the PC MLAs–that show this unneces sary Hydro strike cost the good, hard-working people of Manitoba $18 million. And what did Brian Pallister and his PC MLAs win for that $18 million? Nothing. They lost at arbitration and they were forced, because of us delaying Bill 16, to give Hydro workers a fair deal. Will they simply admit this was wrong and pay back the $18 million? Mr. Goertzen: It must be a Friday morning, Madam Speaker.

The member opposite didn 't have any time to develop questions that would be beneficial to him and his party because he now wants to talk about money and leaving money for Manitobans. Of course he doesn 't need to be reminded, although Manitobans may need to be reminded and we will continue to remind Manitobans, of the effort that the NDP took to take money out of the pockets of Manitobans, Madam Speaker. They raised the PST. They expanded it to a number of different areas.

And now, when we're trying to fix that and reduce the PST on issues like personal services, he again doubles down and says he's going to vote against that. He still won't let go of the legacy of Greg Selinger and the NDP. He wants to continue to have taxes high in Manitoba. We'll continue to try to make life more affordable for Manitobans and stop the NDP from taking money from Manitobans, Madam Speaker. * (10:30) Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Kinew: Madam Speaker, I 'm surprised that the interim PC leader doesn 't think that $18 million is worth asking about. Must be nice for him and Brian Pallister, not to have to worry about $18 million. But for us on this side of the House and the good, hard-working people of Manitoba out there, especially the Hydro workers who bore the brunt of this $18 million in cost, it absolutely is worth – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –asking about.

It's not bad enough that they 've privatized Manitoba Hydro entities, it's not bad enough that they engaged in a multi -billion-dollar cover-up to try and undermine our most important Crown corporation, all in the name of priva tization, but now they take $18 million away from hard-working Manitobans.

October 8, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3925 Will the interim PC leader simply admit that it 's wrong and apologize to Manitoba Hydro workers? Mr. Goertzen: I'm not accepting any of the premise of the question, Madam Speaker. The NDP and the Leader of the Official Op posi- tion wasted $18 million on Hydro before breakfast every day, Madam Speaker. Billions of dollars were wasted on putting a trans mission line on the wrong side of the province of Manitoba. They ploughed through hundreds of thousands of trees, went on the wrong side. They ignored all the experts.

They ignored the experts at Manitoba Hydro, Madam Speaker–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: –they wouldn't–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: He can yell as loud as wants, Madam Speaker, it doesn't make any difference to me because I'll continue to remind Manitobans of the billions of dollars that were wasted. And because of that, they added onto the debt of Manitoba Hydro, they put it in jeopardy in terms of the rates for those who– ratepayers to Manitoba Hydro. We're committed to fixing the finances, both in the province of Manitoba as well as Manitoba Hydro.

Where they destroyed it, we will fix it, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The hon ourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Manitoba Public Insurance Autopac Premiums and Rebate Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Cut through the bluster and this much is true: when Brian Pallister and the PC MLAs interfere with Crown corporations in Manitoba, it always costs you money. We've now become aware of a scheme to take more than $100 million from Manitobans very–some– via some very shady tactics at Manitoba Public Insurance. It 's a lot of money; we 're talking about $113 million.

That would work out to a 10 per cent rate reduction for everybody who has to pay an Autopac premium. Did Brian Pallister and the PCs tell Manitobans about this scheme? Did they reveal it at committee? Did they publish a directive to Manitoba Public Insurance? No, no, no. Now that this scheme has been revealed, will they simply admit that it was wrong? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Premier): Well, the member opposite wrote the book on shady activity, so I'm not going to question him on his knowledge of that, Madam Speaker. But I would say, if he were to look at Crown cor- porations–in fact, I think that he was there.

On June 10th, he asked a question of the president and the CEO of MPI about the driver 's licence branch. And the president responded specifically, we're looking at the possi bility of the extension line of busi ness to cover these costs, as the extension line provide certain excesses of money. So disclosed at public committee, in response to a question by the Leader of the Official Opposition. It was then filed with the PUB on June 24th. It 'll go to the PUB on Monday. Boy, this is the worst cover -up in Manitoba history, if he conside rs this a cover -up, Madam Speaker. Good grief.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Yes, they really are missing Brian Pallister on that side of the House when their leader stands up and says, yes, it was a cover-up and we did a terrible job at this cover -up, and that passes for an applause line these days with the failing Progressive Conservatives. The issue at hand, Madam Speaker, is that this party developed a scheme to take $113 million away from the good, hard-working people of Manitoba. Did they put out a press release on this? Did they make an announcement?

Did they tell the people of Manitoba, you know what, you could be paying 10 per cent less on your Autopac premiums next year? No, absolutely not. As with Hydro, so goes MPI. It 's always cover - up, it 's always schemes and it always costs you money. Will the failing interim PC leader simply admit that it's wrong? Mr. Goertzen: I know that the Leader of the Official Opposition had written his questions and he doesn' t want to veer from the script that he had, Madam Speaker. I'll try to remind him again, because clearly he forgot about the question that he asked at com mittee.

3926 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2021 He asked a question on June 10th at Crown Cor por- ations Committee, and the president and the CEO of MPI indicated that they were looking to take some of the fund from the extension line to cover some of the costs for the driver 's licence side for the tech nology increase–for the enhancement of technology, Madam Speaker. It's in Hansard. Now, to remind him, Hansard isn 't written in disappearing ink. It stays there forever, Madam Speaker. It's still there.

And then they went and they took the application and brought it to the Public Utilities Board, Madam Speaker. And now it 's going to the Public Utilities Board on Monday. Public in June, public in July, public on Monday. The member doesn 't know what he's talking about. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: You know, Madam Speaker, I don' t know who signed off on the legis lative strategy of if we just admit the scheme in question period maybe it will go away, but the bottom line is this: it cost Manitobans $113 million.

And what we 've seen so far in question period today confirms everything that Manitobans don't like about the PC Party. First, $18 million at Manitoba Hydro wasn't worth the leader getting out of bed for, and now $113 million in ad ditional Autopac premiums that you have to pay for, Madam Speaker, well, apparently that's not worth their time either. It's absolutely shameful and it shows just how much they are out of touch with the average Manitoban, who is struggling to get by during these difficult times.

Will they simply admit that it was wrong and commit that they will never interfere in a Crown cor- poration again? Mr. Goertzen: He could speak to the member of Concordia, who would remind him of how the NDP tried to lift $20 million out of MPI and drop it into the universities–out of the Crown corporation.

In response to a question, Madam Speaker, the president of MPI indicated to the Leader of the Op- position, who now has selective memory or has amnesia, that they were looking to keep the money within the cor poration; that they would bring this to the public in matter–they would bring it to the PUB so that they could have a determination–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: –of it. Now they don't like the PUB. It was disclosed in June. It was submitted in July. It'll go to the PUB on Monday, Madam Speaker. That is the way the process is supposed to work. Manitoba Hydro Cost of Labour Dispute Mr.

Adrien Sala (St. James): Eighteen million dollars. Eighteen million dollars is the bill that Brian Pallister left Manitobans for his un necessary Hydro strike. That 's money that every single person who turns on a light or heats their home will have to pay. That's the cost of Brian Pallister interfering in Manitoba Hydro. But the bill isn 't being paid by Pallister or this PC gov ernment. Instead, it 's being paid for by Manitobans. Will the PCs do what' s right and will they send the bill for Pallister 's Hydro strike to Brian Pallister himself instead of passing it on to Manitobans? Hon.

Ron Schuler (Acting Minister of Crown Services): And the fact that there is an outstanding bill from Manitoba Hydro in the tune of billions of dollars for a Hydro line that goes the wrong way, for overruns at all kinds o f projects –including Keeyask, Madam Speaker. * (10:40) The question, then, is should that overrun, should those bills all go to the Leader of the Opposi tion and the NDP, who got us into this mess? Should they be paying for that as well? Madam Speaker: The honour able member for St. James, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Sala: Eighteen million dollars is what Brian Pallister's Hydro strike cost Manitobans. He forced a strike with thousands of front -line Hydro workers, made them go without pay and walk the line because of his illegal wage-freeze mandates. And now he's left Manitobans to foot the bill for his failures. That's wrong. Manitobans shouldn't have to pay. It should be the PC government. The question is simple: Why are they mak ing Manitobans pay millions of dollars for their inter - ference? Mr.

Schuler: Madam Speaker, it was the Leader of the Op position and it was the NDP who forced Manitoba Hydro to put a hydro long–line on the wrong side of the province. They forced Manitoba

October 8, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3927 Hydro to build projects that ran over by billions of dollars. That 's going to cost Manitobans in interest costs for generations to come. The question is will the Leader of the Opposition get up and apologize and will he offer to pay for all those cost overruns for forcing Hydro to put a line on the wrong side of the province? Will the Leader of the Opposition stand up and do the right thing and apologize? Madam Speaker: The honour able member for St. James, on a final supplementary. Mr. Sala: You know, the responses we've heard from the interim Premier (Mr.

Goertzen) and this minister just high light how absolutely disconnected the PC Party is from regular–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Sala: –Manitobans. We know what Brian Pallis ter's inter ference in Hydro does. It makes life more expensive for regular Manitobans and it means millions more in costs to heat our homes and turn on the lights –over $18 million more. That's wrong, and the PCs should be doing what's right and they should stop interfering. And the PCs and Brian Pallister should be paying the bill, not Manitobans. Are they going to send that $18- million bill to Manitobans, yes or no? Mr.

Schuler: Well, Madam Speaker, you can see an NDP party that is absolutely disconnected from Manitobans when they drove up the costs of Keeyask, of Bipole III and every thing else to do with that project. The question is–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Schuler: –who 's going to pay, who 's going to actually pay for that boond oggle of a mess that the NDP got–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Schuler: –Manitoba Hydro in? Will it be the Leader of the Op position? He won 't even recog nize that he is– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. I cannot hear.

Just a reminder to members, please. This is getting a little ridiculous, the commentary that is happening right now and the heckling. I 'm having trouble hearing, and especially when we have somebody remote, it's almost impossible to hear what they're saying. So I'm going to please ask members to stop with the conversations that are going on and the heckling that is happening when members are trying to respectfully answer or ask questions. I'll allow the minister to conclude his statement. Mr. Schuler: The fact that the Leader of the Opposi- tion is angry about this infor mation, we understand.

Can you imagine how angry Manitobans are that they are stuck with billions of dollars of debt because of his actions? [interjection] Madam Speaker: Was I not just understood in my comments? I am going to ask members –and if you want to start me to name you, I will, and that can go down in Hansard for history–so I'm going to ask members to show some respect in here. This is a demo cratic in stitution and I think showing some level of respect towards democracy would be a very good thing today. Manitoba Public Insurance Autopac Premiums and Rebate Mr.

Mintu Sandhu (The Maples): Madam Speaker, the FIPPA document, which I table, shows Manitoba Public Insurance transferred $60 million in March of this year from ratepayers to the governmental costs. There was no press release, no trans parency. There will be another transfer next March too. That's–the money should go back to ratepayers, not Brian Pallister's government. Will the minister give the money to the people it belongs to: Manitobans? Hon.

Ron Schuler (Acting Minister of Crown Services): That question is very telling because, at committee, Manitoba Public Insurance Cor poration indicated that they are coming up with a new program. They're going to get Manitoba Public Insurance Cor - poration up to the standard of every other insurance corporation in North America. That costs money. It is a program for all of MPI. And, Madam Speaker, we now have the NDP, who one day say every thing should go to the PUB – now we have the NDP saying that it should go out on a press release. They're nothing more than a pickerel

3928 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2021 on a dock, flip- flopping every day, depending on what's happening is–depending where they are on this issue. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Maples, on a supplementary question. Mr. Sandhu: Madam Speaker, over $113 million was taken from ratepayers. This translates to a 10 per cent rate reduction for every driver in Manitoba. Or you can put it another way: this translates to a $100-million tax on Manitobans. That's wrong. This interference in MPI is costing Manitobans money.

Will the minister stop interfering and make sure Manitoba drivers get the rebate they deserve? Mr. Schuler: Well, this must be pickerel- on-a-dock day for the NDP. They flip- flop on absolutely every issue. This is a program that gets Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation up to a inter national standard. What the NDP is saying is that we shou ld let MPI become derelict and give a refund to the public, which they opposed the last time a refund went out. Madam Speaker, we get incredibly inconsistent messaging out of the NDP. This was put in front of the com mittee. The Leader of the Op position asked the question.

He got the answer: it's going to the Public Utilities Board. It's going to be a public conversation. You know, the NDP is never happy. Just like a pickerel on the dick–on a dock, and they just flip-flop back and forth. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for The Maples, on a final supplementary. Mr. Sandhu: Madam Speaker, Manitobans should know what is going on at MPI–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Sandhu: –what secret decisions are being kept from them. That 's wrong, and those decisions are costing Manitobans millions of dollars.

Our request is simple: Will the minister make sure Manitobans get the money that belongs to them? Yes or no? Mr. Schuler: Answered June 10th, 2021, page 9. The CEO and president Eric Haberlin [phonetic] makes it very clear: we're looking at the possibility of the extension line of business to cover for these costs, as the extension line provides certain excesses of money. It was made public. It was made public on June the 10th. It's going to be discussed on Monday at the Public Utilities Board. I would suggest to members of the opposition they allow the process to continue.

We respect the Public Utilities Board–something that they never did when they were in. Menstrual Product Availability Request to Supply Schools MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Madam Speaker, earlier today the Ontario gov ernment announced that it will offer free menstrual products at schools. They will be distributing 6 million free menstrual products each year to all 72 school boards in Ontario starting this current school year. On this side of the House, we believe that pads and tampons should be free for students.

In fact, in the last election even some members opposite said that they would consider it, but two years later and nothing has changed. Will the minister commit today to making menstrual products free and accessible in all Manitoba schools? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Education): I do ap- preciate the member's question and I certainly want to congratulate the province of Ontario–the arrangement they have made with Shoppers Drug Mart. Quite frankly it 's been a–a private company come to the table to support female students.

We 'll certainly ap - preciate that offer that Shoppers has made to the gov- ernment of Ontario and to the students there. * (10:50) Certainly, we're committed on this side to look further and see what else we can do to assist our female students here in Manitoba. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Notre Dame, on a supplementary question. MLA Marcelino: Madam Speaker, quote: We know that a lot of girls can't afford to have supplies on hand and that this can lead them to missing school. Unquote. Who said that? It was the Minister of Families (Ms. Squires), Madam Speaker, two years ago.

Members opposite are clearly aware of these issues facing students in Manitoba but they still have not done the important work to address period inequity.

October 8, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3929 October 11th is International Day of the Girl, but here in Manitoba many girls, as well as other students who menstruate, are missing class because they don't have access to necessary period products. I ask again: Will the Minister of Health commit to ensuring that menstrual products are available free of charge to any student who needs them at school? Mr.

Cullen: I way say –will say to the members opposite that our government has been increasing the budgets, the allocations to school divisions, over the last number of years–1.5 per cent–1.56 per cent increase this year alone. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Cullen: The school boards clearly deter mined that they want autonomy to make those types of decisions. We 're allowing school boards to make those types of decisions. We 're allowing the local decisions to be made at the local level. School boards can make those decisions, they can decide where they want to allocate– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Cullen: –resources. We do know many school boards are making those allocations to supplying these products to our female students. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Notre Dame, on a final supplementary. MLA Marcelino: Ontario can take this issue seriously, yet I don 't see a single depart ment here taking this issue seriously. The Education Minister clearly isn 't comfortable talking about this issue. The Minister responsi ble for the Status of Women (Mrs. Cox) tries to talk about USB data blockers instead of pads. Period isn't an unparliamentary word.

It is our job as legislators to address inequities when we see them occurring, and period inequity is a real issue. Will the Education Minister please take responsi- bility for this issue and ensure that menstrual products are free and accessible in all schools in our province? Mr. Cullen: Well, clearly the NDP didn 't take this issue seriously for 17 years, Madam Speaker. Now we're clearly looking at it. We 're investing in education. We just recently announced our poverty and education com mittee. We're allowing those –that committee to investigate poverty and how it relates to education here in Manitoba.

That com mittee will be reporting back to our Poverty Reduction Strategy com mittee of Cabinet. And certainly we look forward to positive results coming out of that committee as well. So, Madam Speaker, we're making investments in education. School boards are allowed to make those decisions on where that money is allocated. We' re looking at the poverty and education component, looking forward to recommendations coming forward on that front as well. We take this issue very seriously. Online Administration of Park Passes Revenue to Out-of-Province Company Ms.

Lisa Naylor (Wolseley): According to a freedom of information request that I will table for this House, it appears that nearly $600,000 of new administration costs paid by Manitobans trying to enjoy our parks has been leaving Manitoba to go to Texas. Why? Because this gov ernment chose to outsource online adminis tration of park passes to a Texas-based company. Can the minister please explain why she would choose to hand over hundreds of thousands of dollars to the US instead of investing it in our parks or keeping it in the pockets of Manitobans? Hon.

Cathy Cox (Acting Minister of Conservation and Climate): Thank you to the member opposite for the question. Again, I would like to reiterate: our parks are not for sale. And I would like to remind the member opposite that it was their gov ernment, the NDP gov ernment, who planned to raise cottage fees –lease f ees for cottagers–by over 700 per cent, ensuring that cottagers who owned those beautiful cottages –small, tiny cottages, intergenerational cottages –were planning–they could lose their cottages. They didn 't care. And what did they call those cottagers?

They called them fat cats–the premier and the Conservation minister. We will not take any examples from any of you across the floor. Madam Speaker: The honour able member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Ms. Naylor: Madam Speaker, I just want to be clear that Manitobans are paying hundreds of thousands of

3930 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2021 dollars more per year on administrative costs for park passes. Not a dime of that is staying in the province. That's not actually something that can be argued; it's a fact. It's not be ing invested in our parks, none of it 's going towards making our parks more affordable or accessible for people to enjoy. I would like the minister, or the minister that is speaking on the minister's behalf, to explain just why we're sending over half a million dollars of Manitoba's hard-earned dollars out of this country. Mrs. Cox: Thank you again for that question.

I would suggest, though, however, that that member maybe get outside of the Perimeter and go and actually visit some of our parks. You know, Birds Hill park, we 've made huge invest ment in our parks there. Over in Turtle Mountain, again– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mrs. Cox: Again, in Turtle Mountain, Grand Beach, Winnipeg Beach, you left tens of millions of dollars to deferred maintenance, and we got it done.

We also have a $20-million endowment fund that is provided to individuals, to organizations, to friends of parks to be able to upgrade those parks and decide on the projects that they want to complete to ensure that our parks are better for all Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honour able member for Wolseley, on a final supplementary. Ms. Naylor: That's rich, because I have no problem: I can afford the extra $4.50 anytime I want to book to go to a Manitoban park, which I do on a regular basis. But Manitobans have been clear. They want all aspects of their parks to remain public.

This is not an affordable change for many Manitobans. Does the Minister of Con servation and Climate (Mrs. Guillemard) and her gov ernment simply not listen to Manitobans? They just continue to use this Texas-based company to charge Manitobans more and not invest a dime of that into our parks. Will the minister backtrack on the priva tization and commit today to no privatizing of any more parks or park services? Mrs. Cox: Again, our parks are not for sale. And I would actually like to educate the members opposite that it was Duff Roblin, a Conservative premier, that first esta blished our Manitoba parks system.

You know, we wanted to ensure that parks were available and acces sible for future genera tions, and that's exactly what we're doing, Madam Speaker. U of M Faculty Association Labour Dispute Staff Retention and Recruitment Concerns Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): At the begin- ning of the pandemic, in April 2020, this government demanded cuts of up to 30 per cent from colleges and universities, cuts that would've instantly shuttered the University of Winnipeg and Brandon University.

Now, t he gov ernment reversed them selves and told the colleges and universities they would only get the money if they graduated people for–needed for the job market. We desperately need graduates for nurses, computer science and mental health, but when I talked to faculty who live in St. Boniface from UMFA, they made it clear they don 't have enough people to actually teach people in those depart ments and they can't attract or retain faculty because U of M salaries, research and more lag badly behind many universities across Canada.

How can the uni versity possibly meet labour market targets set by the –this government when the government won't fund the programs to 'tactally' teach them? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Premier): Madam Speaker, this is a gov ernment that strongly supports not only post-secondary edu cation but out comes from post - secondary education. We know –and there are many stories on this side of the House and many stories, I'm sure, on that side of the House, of individuals who have had their lives transformed because of post - secondary education. So I look forward to continuing.

Our government continues working with post -secondary edu cation. We know that there 's additional and historic invest - ment in the training of nurses, is one example, Madam Speaker, to try to fix the challenges that came under the NDP when there was a shortage of nurses. And we are putting hundreds of millions of dollars into the training of nurses. That is just one example of the commitment that we've made to post-secondary edu- cation. * (11:00) Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question.

October 8, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3931 Bargaining Interference Concerns Mr. Lamont: When this gov ernment was first elected, they directly interfered with bargaining at the University of Manitoba by ordering them to force a wage freeze or face funding clawbacks. That decision by this government meant U of M was fined millions of dollars for violating labour laws. I sat as a student repre sentative on the b oard of governors at the U of M in the 1990s during a strike. This is not normal inter ference. This is doing an end run around the board of governors, the university and its employees.

University autonomy matters for a reason. It 's partly so that research and teaching can be free and independent from political interference, but it's also so that we let in stitutions be run by people who know how to do it. Is this government going to let bargaining run its course and fund uni versities prop erly, or will they simply abolish the board of governors and run it them- selves? Mr. Goertzen: This is a government and a minister responsible who value post-secondary education.

When it comes to labour negotiations, we've seen just recently tentati ve agreements reached through labour negotiations–that we certainly value fair and free labour negotiations. I want to inform the House that the minister and I will be meeting with all the presidents of the univer - sities just this afternoon. We look for ward to a productive discussion. It 's another way that we 're reaching out and listening to the various leaders within our com munity, and that included in those leaders are post-secondary education leaders.

And we look forward to a productive meeting this afternoon with all the presidents from the universities. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a final supplementary. U of M Faculty Association Labour Dispute Bargaining Interference Concerns Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, the gov ernment has directly inter fered in bargaining between the Uni versity of Manitoba administration and faculty. The actions of government are contrary to the principle that universities are inde- pendent.

The Premier, who has expressed pride in his actions, has created a major problem for the Uni ver- sity of Manitoba when it comes to faculty recruitment, faculty retention, the capacity to have enough faculty to teach the courses being delivered and the ability of the university to carry out high-quality research. The government has also said this has been the normal practice for years. Can the gov ernment give specific earlier examples of when it was normal practice in the case of university faculty bargaining? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Premier): The member is wrong in much of his assertion.

He is right, though, that we do have pride in our universities. I spent eight years at the University of Manitoba. I know there are many members on this side of the House who spent many years in post-secondary education in Manitoba. I'm sure there are many on the other side, as well, Madam Speaker. We know that it can be transformative for individuals when they have the oppor tunity to go to post-secondary education. We want that to be a good experience. We want it to be a positive ex perience. We want it to be a rewarding ex perience for them throughout their life.

That is the reason why we 're reaching out to the universities, hearing about how the pandemic has affected their ability to deliver programs. I look forward to a productive meeting with the presidents of the post -secondary in stitutions this afternoon, together with our very capable and engaged Minister of Advanced Education. Mental Health and Addictions Government Support Initiatives Mr. Andrew Micklefield (Rossmere): Since 2019, this gov ernment has invested $52.3 million in innovative new mental health initiatives.

These include new Rapid Access to Addictions Medicine clinics, youth servi ce hubs and the creation of 100 new supportive recovery housing units. As this week is mental health awareness week, could the Minister of Mental Health, Wellness and Recovery update the House on how the gov ernment plans to build on the se suc cessful mental health initiatives? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Mental Health, Wellness and Recovery): I thank the member for Rossmere for this very important question.

3932 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2021 We're engaging with the public to develop a five- year action plan for mental health, wellness and recovery, and over 300 people have already partici - pated in round table sessions in com munities across Manitoba, including Thompson, Selkirk, Morden, Winkler, Winnipeg and Brandon, just to name a few. We're listening to health-care experts and people with lived ex perience who have faced mental health challenges as well as substance abuse challenges. We want to hear from Manitobans from every part of our province.

I thank the over 1,300 people who have partici - pated in our online survey and encourage Manitobans to visit– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. U of M Faculty Association Labour Dispute Bargaining Interference Concerns Mr. Jamie Moses (St. Vital): We–just yesterday, I asked the Minister of Advanced E ducation to show respect to those who work at universities and colleges with fair negotiations. He chose to evade and not answer those questions. Now, the day before that, I asked him three times in Estimates whether he knew anything about negotiating mandates at the Uni versity of Manitoba.

He claimed there' s no involvement. However, we know that their–were involved in placing negotiation mandates at U of M that once again threaten the workers there and put us closer to a strike. Now, why is this minister evading accountability and carrying on with the same inter ference, just like Brian Pallister? Hon. Wayne Ewasko (Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Immigration): I thank the member from St. Vital for the question. Just to clarify yesterday: I'm not going to stand here and apologize or stop thanking health- care workers. I can't help it that the member refrains from asking any questions.

The last question he asked was May 12th, Madam Speaker. So, to answer his question today, straightforward and very clear to the member, gov ernment is not the employer. Strikes are not going to represent our students very, very well. We strongly encourage that UMFA and the University of Manitoba get back to the bargaining table. And misinformation being put on the record by both the NDP and the Liberals are not going to help this move forward at all. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Have a happy Thanksgiving weekend. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Louise Bridge Mr.

Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows.

(1) Over 25,000 vehicles per day cross the Louise Bridge, which has served as a vital link for vehicular traffic between northeast Winnipeg and the downtown for the last 110 years.

(2) The current structure will undoubtedly be declared unsafe in a few years, as it has deteriorated extensively, becoming functionally obsolete, subject to more frequent unplanned repairs and cannot be widened to accommodate future traffic capacity.

(3) As far back as 2008, the City of Winnipeg has studied where the new re placement bridge should be situated.

(4) After including the bridge replacement in the city's five -year capital budget forecast in 2009, the new bridge became a short-term construction priority in the city's transportation master plan of 2011.

(5) City capital and budget plans identified re - placement of the Louise Bridge on a site just east of the bridge, and expropriated homes there on the south side of Nairn street in anticipation of a 2015 start. In 2014 the new City administration did not make use of available federal infrastructure funds, and instead decided to fund an off -the-list, low -priority Waverley underpass.

(7) The new Louise Bridge committee began its campaign to demand a new bridge and its surveys confirmed residents wanted a n ew bridge beside the current bridge, with the old bridge kept open for local traffic.

(8) The NDP provincial government signalled its firm commitment to the –to partner with the City on replacing the Louise Bridge in its 2015 Throne Speech. Unfor tunately, prov incial infra structure initiatives such as the new Louise Bridge came to a halt with the election of the Progressive Conservative government in 2016.

October 8, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3933

(9) More recently, the City tethered the Louise Bridge re placement issue to its new trans portation master plan, an eastern corridor project. Its recom - mendations have now identified the location of the new Louise Bridge to be placed just to the west of the current bridge, not to the east, as originally proposed. The City expropriation process has begun. We petition the Legis lative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the prov incial gov ernment to financially assist the City of Winnipeg on building this three-lane bridge in each direction to maintain this vital link between nor theast Winnipeg and the downtown. * (11:10)

(2) To urge the provincial government to recom- mend that the City of Winnipeg keep the old bridge fully open to traffic while the new bridge is under construction and consider the feasibility of keeping it open for active transportation in the future.

(3) To urge the prov incial gov ernment to financially assist the City of Winnipeg in keeping the old bridge open for active transportation. This petition has been signed by many, many Manitobans. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Are there any further petitions? Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): I have a leave request.

Could you please canvass the House for leave to make the following permanent change to the Estimates sequence: move Finance before Health and Seniors Care in room 254? Madam Speaker: Is there leave to make the following pe rmanent change to the Estimates sequence: move Finance before Health and Seniors Care in room 254. Is there leave? [Agreed] * * * Mr. Goertzen: Could you please resolve into Com - mittee of Supply? Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider Estimates today. The House will now resolve into Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the chair.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 FINANCE * (11:30) Mr. Chairperson (Dennis Smook): Good morning, everyone. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Com mittee of Supply will now consider the Estimates of the Department of Finance. Does the honour able minister have an opening statement? Hon. Scott Fielding (Minister of Finance): You know what, I'm just going to yield to the questions right off the bat and–to expedite the process so we can get as much information as possible out. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the minister. Does the critic from the official op position have an opening statement? Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): No, we do not. We just wish to proceed to questioning. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the member.

Under Manitoba practice, debate of the minister's salary is the last item considered for a depart ment in the Committee of Supply. Accordingly, we shall now defer consideration of line items 7.1(a), contained in resolution 7.1. At this time we invite–oh, sorry–and we ask that the minister introduce the staff in attendance. Mr. Fielding: We've got Richard Groen, our deputy minister, supported by Silvester –Silvester, how do you say your last name? –Komlodi. And Ryan–Ryan, how do you say your last name?–Klos. It's a real tough one, Klos.

So we're supported by our administrative officials in my Department of Finance and Treasury Board. Mr. Chairperson: Does the com mittee wish to proceed through the Estimates of this de partment chronologically or have a global discussion? Mr. Wasyliw: We're seeking a global discussion.

3934 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2021 Mr. Chairperson: Thank you. It is agreed, then, the questioning for this de partment will proceed in a global manner with all reso lutions to be passed once questioning has concluded. The floor is now open for questions. Mr.

Wasyliw: Just wanted to the let the minister know that we recently received a FIPPA request back from Municipal Relations that showed some analysis on the impact of education property tax on pipelines, railways, 'multinaptional' cor porations and their owners, and it showed that the pipelines and railways would save $29 million annually with the complete elimination of the edu cation property tax, and the commercial number was blacked out. * (11:40) I'm wondering if the minister could explain if any analysis has been done on the ed ucation tax rebates for commercial property. Mr.

Chairperson: Before I recog nize the minister, I would like to inform the com mittee that when the speaker has one minute left remaining, I will wave this sign up to let you–just give you some warning that you have a minute left. And, also, because we're doing this virtually, I want to make sure that the minister gives a proper hand signal to make sure that I don't recognize him before he is ready. Mr.

Fielding: To answer the question, first of all, there's 580–five –658,000 property owners that got some sort of benefit, and the average property owner in the city of Winnipeg, I think, was around–close to– just over–just close to $500, but it really depends how big your property was. But the numbers wer e $84 million for farm land and commercial. Mr. Wasyliw: So I'm wondering if the minister, then, can clarify how much he anticipates com mercial properties will receive in rebates with the elimination. Mr. Fielding: Yes, Mr. Chair.

Yes, there's –50,000 commercial property owners and other properties that we categorize got a 10 per cent rebate. As people may or may not recall, it's a 25 per cent rebate for all residential properties, so there's in the tunes of 650,000 Manitobans got a property tax break, which is really important and, again, 50,000 property owners got a 10 per cent rebate, as you–or, sorry, commercial properties got a 10 per cent rebate and that's in the tunes of $48 million. Mr. Wasyliw: Has there been any analysis done for secondary properties? Mr. Fielding: Yes, just to reiterate.

So, there's 658,000 Manitobans that own property in, really, in the province, got a much- needed education property tax cut. Now, for the most

part it really depends on how big your property was and the assessed value and all that sorts, but suffice it to say over 658,000 Manitobans got that support. You know, if you're talking about secondary properties, that'd be about 110,000 properties – secondary properties got a rebate because they own property in the province of Manitoba. Mr. Wasyliw: I'm wondering if the minister can tell us how much they anticipate the secondary properties will receive in rebates with the elimination? * (11:50) Mr.

Fielding: And so, the secondary properties–now, you've got to remember, with the secondary properties what happens is you can't get a credit, so part of this whole process, there's actually property tax reduction. So the gov ernment is committed to 50 per cent reduction over the next two years: 25 per cent for this budgetary year, 25 per cent next year. Our gov ernment is committed to, you know, phasing it out over 10-year periods. We haven't talked about the future years.

And so–and just to nuance the point, if you're a secondary -property owner–so let's say you own a, you know, whatever, cottage or you own a, maybe a secondary property that you, you know, make some income off of, you don't get the credit, right? So the plan, again, is to reduce the education property tax but also phase out the credit.

Now, a part of that –the credit –we've done a couple things to address that: No. 1, we've frozen property taxes for two years; frozen rent control for two years–we've put a zero per cent and we also put about $31 mi llion more in the Rent Assist program so people were able to get more supports. But to answer your question spe cifically, it's $40 million this year. That's 25 per cent. So I'll, you know, get you to times that by four is the total amount. Mr. Wasyliw: Yes. We've recently received an internal document that explained that residential and farm property owners will receive an average rebate of $358.

Apartment owners and landlords will receive an average rebate of $1,700, and as you're fully aware, the renters are obviously losing the rebate.

October 8, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3935 So I'm wondering if the minister can justify how these tax rebates are fair to the average Manitoban? Mr. Fielding: So, thank you for the question. And–so we truly believe that, No. 1, you know, people that are paying education property taxes –paying too much, and that's why we've committed to phasing it out over a 10 -year period. We've–did, obviously, the first 25 per cent this year, 25 per cent next year.

We wish that all parties in –Legislature would have supporte d that because we think people are paying too much, but that wasn't the case, so I'll let you, you know, talk to your constituents why you didn't support that. What I would say on that–back into the equation– No. 1, you have 650,000 people that own proper ty who are getting benefits, like, a good amount of money, too, back. And the rent portions of things for renters; we wanted to support the renters as well. So, what we did is we put a cap on–essentially a rent control, essentially, for two years; that's a part of it.

And so what we did for there–and so benefits–so, for instance, a renter would get the benefit of the zero per cent rent control for two years. And then, obviously, we also built the regs, if people are applying for the above -rent guide lines, then they would have to take in consideration what the landlord got back in terms of the rental there. So we did some analysis, and so just breaking it down, maybe, so you can understand maybe a little bit better. It took a constituency –a building, actually in your constituency, maybe pronouncing it wrong: Adamar Manor, which is at 110 Adamar.

I could be saying the name wrong. But, essentially, under our plan as opposed to your plan, which is the status quo, someone who's renting would actually be $68 better under our plan. So we think that not just renters, which is im portant, but the 650,000 Manitobans that own property in the province of Manitoba are going to see benefits. So there's benefits on both sides. What we also did is we did –just to mention not just the rent control, we also put another $37 million in the Rent Assist program so more people are supported.

In fact, since we've come to office there's been almost 3,000 more people supported in the Rent Assist program. So that's a large amount of people. Probably, that the venue, you know, go to the–maybe a big night at the Convention Centre, right? That amount of people are more supported under the Rent Assist program. And that's one of the reasons why the poverty level's gone down, because you'd be able to give more money in people's pockets. Also with the way the Rent Assist works, there's been an increase every year in terms of dollars and cents.

So, just to pack it down a little bit further, when we came to office–when the NDP were running things, for instance, under the Rent Assist program – two persons, with a single adult and one child, were getting under the –under, kind of, the non- EA Rent Assist and Rent Assist, they would be getting about $758, and that's on July of 2016. So just when we came to office. Now they're getting about $992, so that's actually increased by about 3.9 per cent, so clearly there has been two things that have been happening here.

Number one , if you're 650,000 of the property owners here in the province of Manitoba, you're going to get a good benefit, and second of all, if you're a renter, you're also getting a benefit, or really even in your constituency, you know, a renter that's at a location we had is about $68 better under our plan than the status quo NDP plan. Mr. Wasyliw: Well, I'm glad the minister brought up 110 Adamar, because I think that's a great example.

I've been getting numer ous complaints from that building of above -guideline rent increases and a number of my constituents being 'renovicted' from 110 Adamar, and I think it just highlights the callousness of what's going on here. So, the minister failed to answer my question and so I'll ask it again: Does the minister believe that this tax reduction that gives the ave rage landlord $1,700 while the renter loses a benefit is fair? Yes or no? Mr.

Fielding: Well, I would say that our plan is better than the NDP status quo plan and I guess my concern probably is really to the member because you are part of the rent –the Resi dential Tenancies Com mission, and under your watch there is over 2,079 above -rent guidelines. Every one –100 per cent–of these were approved. So, the concern that I have is, you know, you seem to be making some decisions when you're in your position of respon sibility, but now you seem to be running away from those decisions, which is unfor- tunate.

But what I can say is, under our plan there's 650,000 Manitobans who are going to be better off

3936 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2021 because we've got a 25 per cent reduction in terms of their education property taxes. That's going to go up to 50 per cent next year, so those people are going to be better off. And in our plan, because of the rent increase, I'm putting a freeze on it for two years under–places, you know, places that are –even in your constituency –are better off.

I also did the Leader of the Opposi tion, just to make sure I wasn't just kind of picking on one member–in terms of making sure, you know, the benefits I'm showing–the people in your constituency are better off , but also the member for Fort Rouge (Mr. Kinew). Look at Penthouse Towers. Under our plan, where you have a rent freeze and you also have, again, $31 million that are going to the Rent Assist program, that renter is going to be –actually be about $110 bett er–$110 better than under the NDP status quo plan.

So I would suggest and argue that renters, as well as property owners, are better off under our plan than your plan. Mr. Wasyliw: Well, unlike the minister, I've never, ever ordered the increase of rent on any Manitoban at any time, and I certainly invite him to come down with me to 110 Adamar and talk to my constituents who are being 'renovicted', who are seeing their rent skyrocket 20, 30 per cent in a single year, and explain to them how they're better off.

Can I get a commitment from the minister that he will do that, he will come down to 110 Adamar and meet my constituents and explain to them how they're better off under this rigging of the tax system? * (12:00) Mr. Fielding: Well, thank you. You know, I would also invite that member to come meet with the 658,000 Manitobans that got an educa tion property tax; maybe more of a, you know, kind of a, might be a discussion–a talk–discussion when you say that your party and yourself voted against an education property tax cut that could be in the tunes of close to $500 for individuals. Mr.

Greg Nesbitt, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair I mean, there isn't just renters in your constit - uency. There's also people that own property that's there, so there's two benefits: there's the 650,000 people that got a property tax cut, which you didn't support, and then under our plan, the renters –renters specifically, whether in your constituency, your Fort Rouge or wherever con stituencies, they're better off under our plan than your plan. Mr. Wasyliw: Will the minister come with me to 110 Adamar and explain himself directly to these tenants who are being 'renovicted'? Yes or no? Mr.

Fielding: Well, we consult with everyone through a budget process. That was the problem under the NDP–that you never consulted with Manitobans. So we, in part of our budget sessions, consulted with close to –I think it was close to 30,000 Manitobans in the process; went to all corners of the province. We went–in Winnipeg we went to a variety of areas. This year was a little bit different–the norm, because the fact that we're in a virtual setting, and we would like to get back to where we're able to go and meet with Manitobans. But I encourage you to join me at part of those budget con sultations.

We can meet some of the 658,000 Manitobans that got an education property tax reduction–about, again, a 25 per cent reduction. They're going to see that, again next year, happen for a 50 per cent reduction in it. So we think that that makes 'entired spence' and, you know, we'd also encourage the member to consult, and you can come have a discussion with the 2,900 more people that are part of the Rent Assis t program.

You know, we could–probably could house them all at the Convention Centre or maybe a small venue now that we're able to get back to watch concerts–and have a discussion with them of why we– didn't support that when you or your government was in power and now that they're supported. That's–those are some of the reasons why, spe - cifically, that poverty level's come down, is that–child poverty capital, worst under the NDP, and that's changed under our gov ernment. So we've seen the poverty levels going down.

In fact, I think, if I'm not mistaken, for some of that there's, like, 32,000 less children in poverty, you know, because of some of the changes we've made and also because, like, the Canadian child benefit, that's part of it. So I encourage you to come out and meet those 650,000 Manitobans that are seeing a cheque in their pockets, where they're able to invest spe cifically during the time of a pandemic. Mr. Wasyliw: Well, I certainly have to correct the minister. He's looking at some outdated data.

October 8, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3937 The latest data from Manitoba is showing that child poverty is on the increase and it certainly has to do with these government's policies. It's sad testimony that this minister is not account- able. He will not meet directly with Manitobans w ho his decisions are hurting.

It is making their lives harder, making them less affordable, and he doesn't have the courage of his convictions or a belief in his policies to defend them on the doorsteps of 110 Adamar to the people who are being 'renovicted.' So I don't think I'll get a different response from this minister. I think courage is not one of his strong suits, but if he changes his mind, there is an open invitation to come to that building with me and meet the people whose decisions you're affecting their lives with.

Now I'll ask this minister: Residen tial and farm properties have an average rebate of $358; com - mercial landlords have an average rebate of $1,700. Does this minister believe that's fair? The Acting Chairperson (Greg Nesbitt): Before I recognize the honourable minister, I'd like to ask him to direct all his comments through the Chair and avoid using the term you. Thank you. Mr. Fielding: Absolutely, Mr. Chair. Listen, you know what? I've been thinking about –I want to apologize to the member from Fort Garry. The figures I put on the record are inaccurate. It wasn't 30,000 people that we consulted.

It was actually 51,000 people through EngageMB.ca. We've heard 51,000 participants in our 2001 budget process, whether that be online, telephone town hall meetings, public engagements and all these types of measures. Mr. Chairperson in the Chair So we have listened to a pretty good subsection of Manitobans. We always want to listen to more and so what I would say is that there is 658,000 Manitobans that got an education property tax. They can, at least under our gov ernment while we're in power, that they're going to see a secondary piece of 25 per cent reduction for next year's.

What we tried to do with this is, No. 1, whether you're a residential owner, right, you get a 25 per cent reduction–you own a house or what have you. If you're a busi ness, right, there'd be a 10 per cent reduction. So it wasn't the same 25 per cent level that's there. And we have made substant ial invest ments. We've made sure that the rents are staying low by putting that, you know, into a kind of a way –a rent freeze, I guess, if you will.

We've also built into the guidelines–the above-rent guidelines, that wasn't there when you were, you know , co -chairing it or being involved on the com mission–where they had to take the consideration of the amount of money which they saved from the edu cation property tax before they make any decisions about the $2,000, you know, about the above-rent guidelines. So we think that the policy does make a lot of sense. There's benefits to owners and benefits to renters.

There's benefits to farmers and, quite frankly, there's benefits to business as well, which is important because we know during the pandemic that businesses have been struggling, and so we think that provi ding some supports to, you know, kind of all Manitobans in so many different ways, the categories I've laid out, will help benefit them. And probably –although there's –you know, the unemployment level is still, you know, far too high here nationally. Here in Manitoba it's been a little bit better. We're leading the country right now, about 5.6 per cent–rate.

But some of the policies we've taken, this could be one of them, you know, is helping to recharge the economy. So we're going to continue to do that. We're looking to make life more affordable for Manitobans, not less affordable. Mr. Wasyliw: Well, obviously, Minister, that –this policy has the opposite effect. Now, I want to turn to another issue here. Minister Ewasko on Wednesday –and this is a quote from Hansard–said: Thank you, my friend from St. Vital, for the question.

So, regards to the process, in regards to any type of –whether it's labour relations or things along those lines, we in the de partment, we actually don't get involved in that. That we –would have to be potentially a question for the Department of Finance. And that was a response into a question about mandate letters to post- secondaries and your col - league, the–Minister Ewasko, said that that was your responsibility.

So I'm wondering, as the minister who is respon- sible, was any mandate letter or other forms of directive sent to the Univer sity of Manitoba or other post-secondary in stitutions in relations to their bargaining?

3938 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2021 Mr. Fielding: Well, first of all, we ap preciate–you know, we appre ciate both management and labour. Part of this process, we encourage everyone, obviously, to be at the –you know, back at the bar - gaining table, and agreements are always preferable if you can have an agreed upon agreement. The gov ernment's committed to kind of a balanced approach between labour and manage ment.

Recent agreements show our commit ment to bal - ancing a fair wage and fair negotiations, but that process is ongoing, so I'm not going to comment further on the recent agreements with the nurses, just in respect to their coworkers. You know, we aren't going to take sides one way or the other.

We want to make sure –and I think Manitobans would expect us to take a middle ground and we're obviously not the employer here but we do encourage all parties to come together at the table and our hope is that there could be an agreement moving forward we're seeing some agreements globally out there which we think is important. The–to mention the processes that we started out, that's been the exact same process that's been in place for years under the NDP gov ernment as well as our government and that has not changed at all since we've come to office. Mr.

Wasyliw: So I wonder if the minister confirm: has a mandate letter or any other form of directive been sent to the University of Manitoba or other post- secondary institution for their bargaining process? * (12:10) Mr.

Chairperson: Before I recognize the honourable minister, we've been made aware by the Hansard recorder that the audio coming from the honour able minister's office is not very clear, and we were just wondering if the minister would have a headset that perhaps he could use or maybe get one of his staff to get him one because it would make it a lot easier for us to hear the minister in this room here. Mr. Fielding: Yes, Mr. Chair, we're going to look for some earbuds or something I can use. So we'll–I guess we'll kind of continue o n this path for just a little while.

So we will endeavour to check our records in respect of that, but what I can indicate is that, you know, we do appre ciate, you know, both organi - zations–labour and manage ment. Those are tough decisions. We encourage everyone at the bargaining table. It's a little disappointing that the member wants to get involved in that discussion. I think there is discussions that are continuing to go on. We have a balanced approach to labour and management, and recent agreements clearly show that ours is a govern- ment that does listen and can reach agreement with different organizations.

We're not going to be like the Leader of the Op- position where we clearly demon strate our bias by these 'tex negotiatious' by walking the picket. Mr. Wasyliw: So if I've heard the minister correctly, a minister of the Crown has no idea whether his de - partment has sent a mandate letter to the largest edu - cational institution in Manitoba with their upcoming bargaining where there's a cloud of a strike vote hanging over it. Do I have that right?

Neither him or any of his senior executive staff are in a position to give a simple yes or no answer today, and they have no handle on what's happening in their own department. Do I have that correct? Mr. Fielding: Yes, Mr. Chair, so, we'll endeavour to get the information back to the member by the end of the session here today. Mr. Wasyliw: I ap preciate the under taking by the minister. Obviously there is some urgency to this because the Uni versity of Manitoba Faculty Association is set for a strike vote later this month, citing government interference.

So I–wondering if the minister –who's not aware whether he sent a mandate letter in his own de part- ment–would he, on the record today, commit that, if one has been sent, it will be rescinded and he will allow free and fair open bargaining without any directive or mandate from the Province of Manitoba? Will he make that commitment here and now? Mr. Fielding: Our process has not changed since–the least from the previous gov ernment in terms of approach with labour negotiations. I can tell you that that is –obviously those discussions are with the employer and employee, so that work is ongoing.

It's unfor tunate the member is trying to insert himself, thickly, in these negotiations. But I can tell you that is being discussed, obviously, at the bargaining table and I think, quite frankly, that's the appropriate place. We've seen some, obviously, agree ments with government just in the last number of weeks. We're

October 8, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3939 respectful of that process. We're not going to comment on that until, of course, the agreement has been settled. But our process is exactly the same as it was under the former NDP government. Mr. Wasyliw: I'm glad to hear that the minister is committed to staying neutral and not be involved at all in the bargaining process at Uni versity of Manitoba. Of course, that means no directives, no mandates, nothing from his de partment that could inf luence or cause the management at Univer sity of Manitoba to become entrenched in a position.

And so, again, given his stated neutrality, will he commit today, on the record, that no mandate letter, no directive and no inter ference will occur from his office in relation to the upcoming bargaining session? And if he sidesteps, refuses to answer that question, can you put on the record why you're refusing to make that commitment, given what you've already stated? Mr. Fielding: Our process is exactly the same under the former NDP government it is today. There's been no change in terms of that. I can say it is disappointing, of course, that the member is trying to get on sides.

And for a member that's trying to get into government and be a–whether it be a minister of the Crown or his gov ernment changes–I would suggest that's a dangerous process, a dangerous precedence to set when you have leaders of the opposition that are walking with the picket lines, clearly taking one side or–of the the issues or not. I don't –I'm assuming that–I'm hoping that probably wouldn't be the case once they get into gov- ernment. But I can say that our process is exactly the same under the former NDP gov ernment it is today. So I'm going to refer him back to the answ er I gave last question. Mr.

Wasyliw: I'm wondering if the minister can explain why he won't commit today to ensuring that there's no mandate letter or directive from his depart- ment in relation to this bargaining situation, if he could explain his rationale. Mr. Fielding: Again, to the member, our process is exactly the same that was under the former NDP gov- ernment. Our approach–we ap preciate what the faculty does at the University of Manitoba, the education they provide; we ap preciate the m anagement as well, the employer. We encourage everyone to get back to the bargaining table to reach an agreement.

Obviously, it's preferable if you can have a agreed upon agreement that's done at the bargaining table. That's really where it's supposed to be done. And our government is committed to a balanced approach between both labour and management. That is the approach we've taken and, quite frankly, we think it's the right approach. We've seen some success lately at that, so we want to see that process happen. And we're not going to be like the Leader of the Opposition where we're starting to walk the picket lines, picking one side or the other.

I think taxpayers would want a even and fair process, and that's exactly what we've done and won't–commit to doing. Mr. Wasyliw: I see the minister just sort of reiterated the Brian Pallister approach to labour relations in Manitoba that we've had for the last five years, so do I take from his comments that he believes that is the right approach in Manitoba and that he's going to maintain the Brian Pallister approach to labour relations, and we're going to steady -as-she-goes and there'll be no changes from this new government? * (12:20) Mr.

Fielding: Well, we've a plan, of course and we know that the NDP have no plan. In fact, it looks like they're making it up on the fly, which I think is a dangerous and, quite frankly, a risky approach to gov- ernment, when you don't have a plan and you're just making it up. I think even some of the commentators out there in newspapers have identified that the NDP really have no plan. But what I can tell you, what our plan does, it – under a PC plan, it reduces taxes. We know the NDP will jack taxes up. We know that under our plan we'll reduce the deficit in under eight years.

We know that the NDP love deficits and are going to increase deficits. We know under our plan we've reduced poverty and we're going to continue to reduce poverty. And under the NDP, they had, of course –with the child poverty capital of Manitoba or, rather, Canada–in fact, North America. We also know that the numbers of kids in care have actually gone down by about 8 per cent under our government and we know that they had some of the highest number of kids in care of all nations.

3940 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2021 Now, there is some difference. What we have in our plan–important to have a plan, as opposed to the NDP–is that the health-care funding has actually gone up in our plan by about $1.1 billion and we know the NDP's–you know, funding for health care wasn't as important to them. We know edu cation funding has dramatically gone up under our gov ernment and we've also committed to over 20 new schools. That didn't happen under the NDP government.

We also know that money for mental health has dramatically gone up under our government, whether it be agreements we've signed and monies that are on the table to address mental health. And of course, that didn't happen. So there is a difference between our governments, of course. One has a plan for these things and one doesn't. Mr.

Wasyliw: Well, I think the minister's answer made it very clear that he fully supports the Brian Pallister school of labour relations, is going to continue exactly in the same vein and, although the players may have changed around the ta ble, the attitude is very much present and the same.

I'm going to ask you to turn to page 24 of the 2021-2022–'21–sorry, 2020 -2021 Public Accounts breaks down the budget and the actuals for strategic infrastructure and as, Minister, you'll note that roads, highways, bridges and flood protec tion was under - spent by a whopping $128 million; health, education and housing was underspent by an eye -catching $209 million; and the overall strategic infra structure was underspent by $525 million. That's certain ly a broken promise from the budget that said that no less than $1 billion would be spent on strategic infrastructure.

We're looking at clearly a 50 per cent failure on that promise. So I'm wondering if the minister could provide a list of budgeted projects, amounts spent and deferred projects from the past fiscal year? Mr. Fielding: Our gov ernment is very much committed to strategic infrastructure. That's why–and specifically when you're coming out of a pandemic, we think making im portant invest ments in infra - structure is really im portant. There's been numer ous announcements recently: things like the ICIP funding for the water treatment centre. There's been funding for the Waverley West com munity centre.

There's been funding for the St. James 55 civic centre project, I think $13 million. And I think the Waverley West was somewhere in the neighbourhoods of $80 million. There was monies that was dedi cated toward impor- tant waste and water projects out of the RM of Stanley and as well as Portage la Prairie. So we're very proud of the fact that we invested $1.6 billion on infrastructure this year. When you look at some of the important areas which we think is im- portant, over 90 per cent of the money was spent for roads and things like the maintenance of roads. Really, really important. So that's important.

Eighty-three per cent of all education funding was there. We've got a commit ment to build 20 new schools that should've been done a very long time ago but wasn't. We also committ ed to a variety of maintenance types of projects. Under the NDP gov ernment, they used to, you know –liked to intro duce this new spending but they didn't take care of the existing infra- structure and so we have, I believe there's been close to eight new schools with new HVACs have been set up, that –important obviously during the pandemic.

That and along with the 20 new schools, there's been– upwards of 28 new schools are going to have great new ventilation systems. We've spent more on strategic infrastr ucture, more than the NDP ever did except for one year. The one year, of course, was their election year. So we're committed to infra structure spending, a strategic infrastructure spending. The $500 million will be allocated–or is being spent over a three -year time period. Mr. Wasyliw: So, would the minister commit to providing a list of budgeted projects, amounts spent and deferred projects for the past fiscal year? Mr.

Fielding: If the member could ask the question one more time. I think it was listin g of the projects. Which–are you talking about the ICIS projects? Or are we talking about a listing, kind of like a variance of where and what was spent? I mean, variance, for the most part, you know, that there's two things: No. 1, there's some delays a s it relates to Lake St. Martin. As you may recall there's still ongoing environmental issues and con sultation that happened with the federal gov ernment. And so that area is about $100 million allocated.

I think about seven–17, somewhere around there was spent on that, so there's obviously an under-expend there. There was because of the pandemic, some issues getting into the health facilities, you know, hospitals,

October 8, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3941 personal-care homes. These types of things as you can–I'm sure you can understand with the pandemic happening you can't have access to all these places because of it. But the Health expenditures is mainly related to IT-type of projects there. So that's–I'm not sure if that's exactly what you wanted, but, you know, there's some infor mation for you. Mr.

Wasyliw: To clarify what we're seeking is: of the $525 million that has not been spent, if there could be a list of the budgeted projects that make up that amount, the amount that was spent on those projects and what projects were deferred from the last fiscal year. Mr. Fielding: So it's like at $1.6 billion, right? There's–I want to say there's hundreds of projects in all different areas, right, that are either being completed, you know, or ongoing.

Like, some projects are kind of multi -year programs, so you may have spent, you know, if it's a $150-million project, maybe you spent $50 million this year and there's two years out that happened. So we don't have a –I don't have a listing here of each and every project, where it's at. If the member would like, I could get –you know, run through each of the areas related to the Public Accounts docu ment where there was a variance and I could provide that for the member, if he likes. Mr. Wasyliw: I can certainly understand if the minister and his staff aren't prepared to provide a list on the fly.

The question is whether you will undertake to provide us a full list for review after this hearing. * (12:30) Mr. Fielding: So, you know, we are, you know, we're trying to figure out how –what the best approach to this would be. Like, literally, there is hundreds of projects out there. So, like, would the member –I mean, probably on major projects we could obviously provide infor mation on what major projects would be. But, you know, there could be a mi llion-dollar, you know, project here and there that's there. Like, I don't know if that's the information you want, or, you know, I mean, globally I can do this.

I don't know if I can provide –like, it literally would be hundreds of pages long to provide a listing of these. And then some of them, for instance, you know, may be projects in the three years –you know, might be phased over three years, right, it's a long- term project. So, you know, I guess globally what I can say is there isn't–been any projects that have been cancelled. You know, globally for the most part, you know, it's– there's some reasons that there's been some delays.

So if there's specific areas, maybe, that you'd like us to focus in on we could, but it's going to be really hard to, you know, assemble a list of all the projects, you know, and where they're at, because just, quite frank- ly, there's a lot of projects that are ongoing, right, maintenance and all that sort of stuff. So, I'm just trying to narrow it down for some - thing that's usable that you want. And you, you know, have a right to ask for it, but that isn't kind of, you know–something that's really hard to put together. Mr.

Wasyliw: Obviously, to the minister's question, we would want all the infor mation that you can provide. Your gov ernment officials obviously know what projects are planned and what are–in what stage they are and what money's been spent or not spent. The infor mation is there. It's just whether the political will is to actually be accountable and trans- parent and provide that to the public. So, I'll leave that and whatever the minister is willing to give us we will take, and more is better than less. Mr. Fielding: I didn't really have response to that.

You know, we'll endeavour–you know, we'll take that under advisement and we'll refer back. Mr. Wasyliw: This is, as you know, well -known, Minister. This isn't the first year that your government has underspent strategic infrastructure. In fact, there's a pattern that, year after year, that's what happens. In fact, you can set your watch by it. And I'm wondering if you could tell this commit- tee, why is that? What can't this gov ernment actually spend its strategic infrastructure budget and misses it every single year? Mr.

Fielding: I gues s probably the same question may go back to the member, just looking at the recent years. I notice the former NDP gov ernment, in 2011, undershot their infrastructure budget by $368 million; in 2012-13 of–$412 million underspent; in 2013- 14, $260 million. In 2015 you were actually on track that year, $96 million. In 2015-16, you know, just the year, you know, right at the election time, they underspent their budget for $423 million. And so I guess what I were to say is there's reasons all the time of w hy some projects may – delayed. I can tell you this year, just, you know, these

3942 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2021 are some generalities, but the most part, Lake Manitoba outlet channel project delays, errors, result- ing delays and federal environmental approvals and COVID-19 pandemic restri ctions, limited travel re - lated to con sultations, water -related infra structure; you know, heavy rain events and diversion of internal resources to manage floods resulted in reduction of other capital works during the construction season.

In terms of e ducation delays and completion of Red River College Innovation Centre, there was ob - viously some funding challenges, which we addressed, and COVID-19. Efficiency Manitoba reduced the delivery of in - home and in- business programs as a result of COVID-19 pandemic and public health restrictions, as well as there was a postponement of the capital acquisition for 2021-22. And Liquor & Lotteries: due to casino closures and reduced revenue, projects were cancelled or deferred–to meeting cash flow during the pandemic.

So that kind of, for the most part, gives some of the explanation but, you know, again, globally it's a large–to do with this Lake Manitoba outlet and because we couldn't get in some of the health facilities. Mr. Chairperson: Before I recog nize the next question, I'll–just wondering if the minister has been able to locate a headset or ear buds or something, because Hansard is having dif ficulty getting all of what the minister is saying and to make sure that they have a proper transcript. If the minister could please find a set of headphones or something, that would be greatly appreciated. Mr.

Wasyliw: I'm wondering if the minister could tell us, under the current budget before the House, it's – there's a commit ment by your gov ernment of $1.2 billion in strategic infra structure in this current fiscal year. Would you be able to provide us with a list of budgeted projects and money spent to date? * (12:40) Mr.

Fielding: So, generally, because it's just, really, you know, kind of the end of Q1, although, you know, we're obviously technically into Q2, obviously –and construction season is just, you know, at least for the summer portions of things –now that more impacts with this and that sort of things, it's really too early to say, you know, what's on track and what isn't. You know, I think by mid–the mid -year review or report that we bring out, that has more indications on it of where things are going. Like, what happens this time of year, too, is, you know, there is money that is left in certain de part- ments.

I'll give you an example. Let's say on Infra - structure. What we do is we ask the depart ment to come back and say, okay, you know, is there some ad- ditional projects you can do; if you can't –maybe there's a delay, and there's a lways going to be some delays in some projects, but they're –you know, there could be some examples where you can, you know, do additional work. So an example would be Infra structure.

The reason why this year, you know, in the last couple of years we'v e been pretty good on the road budget and the maintenance budget is because we had – Infrastructure kind of came in at the end of summer and we said, okay, what work can you do over winter, right, to pass the construction season and they said, no problem, we can do a lot more gravel roads. So what we do this time of year is if there is kind of, you know, periods that are trending down, then we kind of, you know, move money around, I guess, I would say, just–to certain projects.

You know, a lot of them would obviously be, you know, incorporated in the budget documents or there's certain areas that you can maybe do a little bit more work. So I guess I'm saying it's really too early right now, but I think by mid-year–the mid-year report, you know, we should have a better under standing of, you know, which projects are tracking behind. You know, some things like–you know, an example is things like Lake St. Martin, right, the channel project, right? We have I think $101 million allocated in this year's budget. So, some things are a bit out of our control, some things aren't.

You know, there's also– you know, depends on agreements. So I'll give you an example with the ICIP dollars that's, of course, the federal-provincial billion- dollar fund that funds, kin d of, like, roads. It funds, you know, kind of, waste-water treatment plants, like, recreational–these types of things.

We're a bit at the discretion of the federal govern- ment, too, with this, because what happens is, even for those types of projects –and Minister Helwer will be probably have some better–you know, he can provide more details on each of the projects, but –we submit our list to Ottawa and then it has to go through their federal Treasury Board and Cabinet. So we did that last summer. For the most part there's kind of a back

October 8, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3943 and forth with the officials and then all of a sudden, you know, there's a lot announced that happens. This year, there was a federal election –and this isn't anything against, you know, the current gov ern- ment that's th ere, but what ends up happening is there's kind of a hurry-up-and-wait thing with a lot of the projects, and then all of a sudden they get their project out of the door, you know, whether that's, you know, before the election or not.

But, you know, I mean, just with that being said, with ICIP dollars we were able to make an nounce- ments, I think, on Portage la Prairie waste water; the RM of Stanley, waste water –those are hundreds of millions of dollars; things like the North End treatment centre with the C ity of Winnipeg; two of the, you know, kind of recreational projects, one being the Waverley West –it's a big com munity centre; I think it was, like, $80 million –and then one was the Sturgeon Heights –or it was actually the 55 -plus Centre, as well –$13 million and we had kind of an agreement with all three levels of government.

So, a long story short, some are in our control, some aren't, but there has been quite a bit of announce- ments–the ones I, you know, kind of listed off–really in the last 2 -3 months. So those are timings that happens. Now, some of those projects, if we're involved in it it gets–categorizes as strategic infrastructure. If it's a grant, for instance, like, maybe to the City of Winnipeg or to others, it's categorized under kind of an operating grant, I guess, if you will, just because of the accounting of it. So long story short, we'll have a better indication after the mid-year review as opposed to Q1.

Just kind of a better trend line of what's happening in the construction season. Mr. Wasyliw: So, if I take the minister's comments, you're refusing to provide a list of all budgeted projects that are supposed to be under taken this year and their current money that's been spent on those projects. Do I have that correct? Mr. Fielding: No, you're completely wrong. I didn't say that at all. That was your words, not mine.

I–what I endeavoured to say is that we're trend – there's a trend line that happens in Q1 and there's a better sense on where projects –after Q2 for, you know, the reasons which I'll get you to refer back to my last answer of why, you know, it's a better trend line in the mid-year. So I didn't say that at all. That was your words, not mine. Mr. Wasyliw: So, given that I had misinterpreted your words, I take it I now have your undertaking that you will provide a complete list of budgeted projects for the current year and the spending to date. Do I have that correct? Mr.

Fielding: What I'll endeavour to do for the member is, once Q2 does come out, the –what we're calling now the mid -year report, that endeavours to provide kind of where we're tracking at all –expires, not just Infra structure, but what we're spending on health or education or, you know, whatever categories the member or, you know, the media obviously want. That's a public document. You know, generally what I do is I do a press conference, more specifically, I think, if there's some, you know, there's some abnormalities from where we're going.

What I can say is that, you know, after Q1, on a global scale, if the –you know, we're pretty much on track, I think we're $34 million above where we anticipated, but the deficit's dropping from about, you know, it's about $2.1 billion in Public Accounts to about 1.5-ish. So we provide all that information and– like we do every year. We're absolutely committed to providing all that information in the mid-year report. Mr. Wasyliw: Okay, so I'm taking from your com - ments that you're prepared to undertake to provide us a list of budgeted projects for this current year, including spending to date.

And I have that 'corrighk'? That's your–my understanding. You are going to undertake to give us that list. Yes? Mr. Fielding: I'm going to refer you to m y previous comment. Mr. Wasyliw: So I will take that as a yes. When can we expect to receive that document? Mr. Fielding: We provide an update–the government provides an update on Q2 that goes through every - thing from operations, where the dollars a re being spent. But what is important this year is we put away about $1.2 billion in money for COVID supports. And so we identify that, you know, we high- lighted that in our Q1 report.

And in our Q2, a part of the normal process that would happen under our gov- ernment and other gov ernments is we report on all these types of matters at the Q2 session.

3944 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA October 8, 2021 So we're absolutely committed to that same process we've been involved in for many years. Mr. Wasyliw: The minister knows full well that I'm not interested in him under taking to give me the Q2 report, which is delivered to my mailbox. What I'm asking for an under taking for is for a list of strategic infrastructure projects that are anticipated this year and how much money has been spent to date. Is the minister refusing to provide that infor ma- tion? And if so, why is he refusing to disclose that information? Mr.

Fielding: No, we're absolutely committed to providing as much information as we can. There's kind of a standard process that happens in respect to all avenues. We do it in Q1, we do it in the mid-year report that identifies, you know, where we're spending money, whether it be COVID, whether it be kind of de partments, whether it be strategic infra - structure. We do that in Q3 and we obviously do that in Public Accounts. We just went through a process where we released all the infor mation on doubled accounts for the year, and that provides all the infor - mation for members.

So, we're absolutely committed to the process that we've been involved in. We want to make sure the people have as much infor mation as they can. And, quite frankly, we're proud of the fact that on our restated numbers we're pretty much bang on what we anticipated through Public Accounts and Q1, as we just identified. And a lot of this infor mation the member is referring to, you know, that gets categorized and gets reported on under Q1, our obligation is to report this information. So, yes, we want to provide as much information as we can. Mr.

Wasyliw: So, it's obvious this minister is refusing to release that infor mation, so I'm going to ask him: What is he hiding and why? Mr. Fielding: We're provi ding all infor mation we can. We just went through a process where we released Public Accounts that went through every dollar, every cent, that was money that was, you know, reviewed by the Auditor General. Obviously the Auditor General signed off on this.

We're very happy that some of the quali fications that we've had in years past have been resolved. * (12:50) And so what we commit to do, and we have, and we do on a yearly basis is we provide all information of where the gov ernment's trending. Now, when you come from Q1 there's a trend line, right? This is what we're tracking. Nothing's happene d throughout the year. Same thing with Q2, or what we call the mid - year review, and the Q3 where we say, there's a tracking. You know, this is where we're tracking. Now, again, sometimes projects happen quicker, sometimes they happen later on.

So we're committed to all the information that we would normally provide, whether it be your government previously or our gov- ernment. We're absolutely committed to providing all that information. Mr. Wasyliw: I'm wondering if the minister could give us an update on how many employers applied for the Manitoba Pandemic Sick Leave program? Mr. Fielding: For the sick leave program, there has been over 2,469 people that have applied and got the benefit. Mr. Wasyliw: The minister, he used: people; I take it he means employers? I just want to make sure that I have that statistic right. Mr.

Fielding: Yes, it's 2,500 employees –or, 25–I'm sorry–2,469 employee –employers. And we believe it's probably about 5,000 people have benefitted from the sick leave program that we introduced. I do want to reference the fact, of course, the federal government has the two sick leave programs that are in place. One was for a caregiver –I'm using the names wrong, but there's a caregiver support one and another program kind of related, if they had to take some time off for COVID relief.

So there's the two federal programs, and the money and how we establish this program, I guess, is –there is kind of a lag between when you can apply, so we figured out what that dollars and cents would be. So, again, about 2,400– almost 2,500 busi nesses have applied, and we think it's about 5,000 people that have benefited from the program. Mr. Wasyliw: How many busi nesses applied and were rejected? Or has every single busi ness that applied been accepted in the program? And what I mean by that is: you said there's 2,469 employers that benefited from this.

Was there 2,469 applications, or were there more and some got rejected?

October 8, 2021 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 3945 Mr. Fielding: Of that, again, the 2,469 are businesses that applied; so, again, the number is just somewhere around 5,000. If you applied and you hit the criteria for the program, then you got accepted. So 100 per cent of people that met the criteria got accepted into the program. Our government is very proud of the fact that on a basis –I'll give some numbers here –there's been about $407 million of supports were individuals.

So, of that, 368,000 individuals got some sort of support in the pandemic, and that kind of related to things like the Risk Recognition, where people would get–I think it was about 80,000 Manitobans would get, you know, about $1,500. There is the caregiver supports. There's a whole bunch of others: seniors that got– 235,000 seniors that got, I think it's a $200 cheque, and others. If you're a disabled individual you've got also a cheque for I believe it was $200, as well.

So, all totalled, almost 31 per cent of all the popula tion of Manitoba above the age of 12, I believe, got some sort of support–368,000 individuals. And that totalled about $407 million for business supports, because I'm sure that we'll go there next. You know, $470 million business supports. So that was 30,000 busi nesses of the 125,000 busi nesses in Manitoba got some sort of support through the Bridge Grant or the gap program or the wage subsidy program or Healthy Hire or, kind of, some of the restaurant supports. And that represents about 31 per cent of all businesses.

So, again, 31 per cent of all individuals in Manitoba above the age of –I think it wa s actually above the age of 12– got some sort of supports, 31 per cent; and of businesses, 33 per cent of all busi- nesses. So there was substantial supports. And what we're very proud of the fact is of the support systems for the busi nesses, or rather, you know, busi nesses, individuals –96 per cent of the dollars that were allocated were flowed out to in - dividuals and businesses, so 96 per cent of all dollars that we allocated flowed out.

We were able to move dollars, obviously, within de partment lines, and so what you're seeing in Public Accounts is kind of the grand totals, I guess, if you will, but 96 per cent of all dollars that were flowed out to –that were allocated were flowed out to individuals as well as businesses. Mr. Wasyliw: So, just to be entirely clear, has any employers applied and been rejected, or there's been 100 per cent acceptance of every single application made? Mr. Fielding: Thank you for the question. You know, 100 per cent–people that applied that met the criteria, that were eligible for the benefit, got the support.

Now, the program is actually some what administered through Economic Dev elopment and Jobs, so I'm not aware of anyone that, you know, has applied and didn't get [inaudible] program as long as they were hitting the criteria. So if you were eligible through the criteria that was set out, then you got benefit. * (13:00) Now, there could be some lags, you know, in certain–some of the processing. My understanding is, it was a pretty robust system where they did get the supports. But if you were eligible under the criteria for the program, yes, you got support. Mr.

Wasyliw: I'm wondering if the minister can tell us what was the total amount budgeted for this program. Mr. Fielding: I'm going to refer you to Q1, page 5. And so as you can see, just about middle the way– to the page, the Pandemic Sick Leave program. There's $3 million allocated. We have supported, as mentioned, about 2,500 businesses I–we think around 5,000 people. Now, p

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-3-79
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 3rd hansardpdf 79.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	5fa6a43938ebcfe241c2c01f11c796b4dc63e44a

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