Proceedings of the House of Assembly During the Fifth Session of the Thirtieth General Assembly of Newfoundland 1 955 Volume 11 PRINTED IN CANADA ev GUARDIAN LIMITED, ST. JOHN'S, NFLO.

Proceedings of the House of Assembly ( During the Fifth Session of the Thirtieth General Assembly of Newfoundland WEDNELSDAY, April 20, 1955 The House met at 11:00 of the clock in the forenoon, pursuant to adjourn­ ment. Presenting Petitions MR. DROVER: Mr. Speaker, I beg leave to present a petition from ·the people of Pumbley Cove, Pound Cove, Seal Cove, Westport and Western Ann. T,hese people are requesting cheaper hospitalization and more ade­ quate hospital facilities in the District of White Bay. This is a follow-up of many .peti-tiions already presented to this House by me.

The people pre­ senting them those names are on the petitions are rfishermen and loggers, and all are in the low-income bracket. I do know, Mr. Speaker, that this request is not unreasonacble. I have great pleasure in supporting the pray­ er of ·rhe petition and asking that it be tacbled in vhe House and foriwarded to ,the department concerned. On motion pebition tabled for ref­ erence to the department concerned. Presenting Reports of StandLng and Select Committees None . Giving Notice of Motion and Questions None , Answers to Questions Question No. 46: In course of preparation. Question No. 40: HON. W. J.

KEOUGH (Minister of F1isheries and Co-operatives) : Mr. Speaker, I 'beg leave to tacble the an­ swer to Question No. 40, Order Paper of April 13. I am sending the Hon­ ourable Leader of the Opposi,tion across an a:dd.itiona,1 copy. I would appreciate it if he passed it to the honourable member for S't. John's West, because fhat covers a question directed by the honourable member to me last night. That is seotion 3 of the question.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 909 QUESTION (3)-Ta!ble report show­ ing work performed by rhe Co-opera­ ~ive Division of Uhe Fisheries Depart­ ment. .-~NSWER : The Co-operative Divi­ sion oJ the Department of Fisheries and Co-operatives comprises two sub­ divisions-the Registry and ,t,he Exten­ sion Division. Attached is a Report in b11ief of the activity of each for the period April 1st, 1954 to March 31st, 1955. Activity of Co-operative Extension Division Period Ending March 31st, 1955 The work of the Division is being carried on by an aotJing Director and ten fieldworkers.

Each year's work begins with a fieldstaff conference at which matters pertaining to the Co-operative Move­ ment in Newfoundland are reviewed and discussed and plans made for a continuing programme. At Uhe last such conference held at St. John's during the week beginning September 6th the following siix point programme was adopted. 1. Concentrated effort on educa­ tional activity primarily through study groups or group discussion. 2. Regional conference of Co-opera­ tive Societies. 3. Management training classes. 4. Credit Union book-keeping in­ struction. 5. Special community and regional projects. G.

Routine fieldwork. I. Educational Activities The co-operative movement consists of associations in which people rather than dollars are given prime considera­ ~ion. Consequently the success of the movement depends by and large upon the enlightenment of the people. How­ ever, maximum enlightenment is not alway possible through constitutional memJbership meetings or ,large group meetings regardless of how often they may be held.

Some other means there­ fore must be introduced whereby the majority of individual,s can benefit most by partioipation in study and dis­ cussion of the co-operative movement in general and then lorn! co-operative problems in particular. The best proven means so far devised is the study club or small group discussion. Akhough organized from the co-opera­ tive membership, ~hese study clubs are not restricted to that any more than co-operative -topics are discussed exclu­ sively. It is a means of airing com­ munity prdblems as well.

The extension staff has assisted in the org·anization and operation of 150 such groups as part of the winter pro­ gramme. Material to be used as the basis for discussion has been prepared in book,let form, sixteen hundred cop­ ies of which, have been distributed throughout the Province. In order Uhat the staff might /be better qualified to engage in this type of activity, a short course in the tech­ niques of group discussion and proper use of film was held in November last, under the joint dfrection of Dr. Florence O'Neill, Director of Adult Education and Mr.

Ben Drew of the National Film Board. 2, Regional Conferences Groups as well as individuals have mutual problems. Also they have di­ vers1fied experiences to share and many ideas to exchange. Realizing

910 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS this and also being conscious of the need for Gloser co-operation ,between co-opera.ti 1ves, regiona •l cornferences of co-operative organizations have been included as part of the extension pro­ gramme. Five such conferences 'have been held since October ,last al St. Anthony, Joe Batt's Arm, Merasheen, Little Pamdise and Grole . The Divi6ion ac­ tively promoted these conferences . Members of the staff have assisted ,i-n the preliminary organization work and in each instance one or more sta,££ personnel have been present to guide the work of such conferences.

These conferences have been successful in thaJt consolidation of th Movement on re­ gi(l'llal basis through inter-group buy­ ing and marketing .has resulted. 3. Management Training Courses The Extens,ion Division sponsored two trnining courses for managers of co-operative societies during the year, one at Corner Brook in December and another ;it St. John'.~ in Fehrnary. In this project Vhe Division had the assistance of the Newfoundland Co­ operative Union.

These courses were divided into Siix sections namely, Management, Book­ keeping and Accounting, Co-operative Legislation, Co-operative Education, Business Correspondence and General Discussions. Each course lasted eight days and was we11 attended. Although not, and not intended to be, the complete an­ swer to the need for management Lraining, Lhe classes did fill a long fell need. That they were successful is evidenoed by the many favoura'ble comments and requests vhat they be continued, which are on file at the Department.

Another very practical result of the classes has been that at least fifteen manag·ers, having become conscious of the need for ·fur~her training are presently tacking a correspondence course in co-operative accounting pro­ vided by the British Columbia Depart­ ment of Education through the New­ foundland Co-operative Union. Four others have enrolled with I.A.S. corres­ pondence school in courses of ad'Va.nced book-keeping and accountancy. In each case the expenses of these courses are bourne ,by the various societies. 4.

Credit Union Book-keeping Instruction In order that credit unions may have a choice of treasurers and in or­ der that at least some members might become qualified to act on supervisory or audit committees, the Division felt it was necessary and desirable to in­ troduce a course of instruction •in credit union book-keeping. Lesson plans and outlines ha.ve ·been prepared by the Division but each society pro­ vides the book-keeping requirements out of its educational fund. Two classes are 'held each week over an eight week period.

Members of the staff assist in the ·organization of these courses but generally do not ,give the ins~ru ,ctnon. T,his is done by the so­ ciety's own T1·easurer with some as­ sistance provided 1by the Division. Ten such courses involving some seventy credit union members are presently in progress. 5. Special Community and Regional Projects From time to time tbe Division is called upon to assist in special com­ munity projects pertaining to the co­ operative in the community. This

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 911 usually involves a series of specially planned meetings and ' study groups lasting from two weeks to a month during whi·ch -time a member or mem­ bers of the staff are assigned to the particular job. Regional projects are given special attention where evidence points to­ wards the necessity of centralized or amalgamated operations. Such projects usually call for the preparation of ap­ propriate study mat erial which has local application. This in ·turn calls for the organization of series of study dubs and mass meetings.

One ex­ ample of this type of activity may be found along the nor.thwest coast lob­ ster area. Here five lobster pools, in­ volving some one thousand fishermen and over one and one-quarter million pounds production are being assisted in a move towards centralization of marketi.ng operations. Lack of proper co-ordi ,nated effort with its subsequent economic disadvantages makes this step inevitable. Another e~ample exists in the Straits where the producer and consumer activity of apprmdmately ~hree hun­ dred fis·he1°men of a dozen small com­ munities is centred at Flowers Cove.

In the early days of deve,lopment in this area, although ot,her consumer activity was centralized, the Credit Union movement was quite decentra­ lized with six of them being set up in the larger communities. Amalgama­ tion of these into one central credit union situated at the centra'I point of other co-operative activity has been affected. St. Anthony The Grenfell Memorial Co-operative Society at St. Anthony has for many years •been Vhe marketing agency for the bulk of the salmon production in Lhe area .from St. Anthony South to Englee which includ es six marketing groups.

During the past two years competition in certain parts of the area has been very keen. However, due to conce~Hrated field work, which culminated in a regional conference, the groups concerned are approaching this season's operation with greater evi'Clence of consolidated .effort than ever before. 6. Routine Field Assistance Apart from any general programme which may be adopted and -imple­ ment ed the Division through the field­ sta.ff is constantly receiving requests for special and additional assistance.

Pro­ v,iding speakers for meetings, assiMing boards, committees, managers and treasurers all come w,i,thin this category. Assistance in organization and prepara­ tion for registration is also provided by the field staff and during the )'ear eight een societies were so prepared. With the help of the Division of Audio-Visual Education, three pieces of fi.lm equipment have ,been made avail­ able to the Division along with four­ teen co-operative films and many otihers of a general nature.

Each member of the staff has re­ ceived training in the care and opera­ t,ion of the film equipment and uses it in his work wi·th co-operative groups but does not confine hims elf ·to co­ operatives. It is not unusual to ,find a field man r·unning a fi.lm showing for school children and various community organizations. Seventy,five f.ilm show­ ings have b een reported during the winter. Activity Report of Registry April 1st, 1954 to March 31st, 1955 The nonnal staff of the Registry of Co-operatives consists of a Registrar,

912 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS six Inspectors, one Registry Clerk and one stenographer. Early in Uhe fiscal year the Registrar ~u ffered a serious ,illness and is still away from work. During the year the Registry Clerk and two Inspectors transferred to other Departments and one Inspector was appointed as Acting Registrar.

Just prior to this the or­ ganizer of Co-operative Housi ·ng re­ signed. and' the whole work load of the Registry plus organization and super­ vision of Co-operative Housing was carried. by an Acting Registrar, two experienced Inspectors, two new In­ spectors, a new Registry Clerk and an experienced stenographer who was a tower of strength in ,the routine work of the Registry. The Externion Division was grad­ ua•lly assuming responsibjlily for the organization of Housing Societies as a part of its normal program as the fin­ ancial year closed.

De~pite the handicaps eighteen hous­ ing societies were organized of which eleven were registered and seven were still in the study and planning stage at years end. One producer society was registered. The one hundred and sixty-eight registered societies and rhe sixty-seven known unregistered socie­ ties received attention either by the Registry Staff or Extension Sta.ff or both, and in particular thirty-one a·udits were done and twenty-eight in­ spections conducted. Also there was the supervision of fourteen housing societies actuaJ,Jy building and ten pre­ paring to build.

Co-operative Housing It is well know that t!he sharp rise in the cost of housing during -the past decade or so has made it di,fficult for people in the low and middle income brackets to secure suitable 'homes. The Department of FisheTies and Co-opera­ tives, much concerned over this situa­ tion, studied ways and means during 1949 to 1950 to provide low cost homes for owner occupancy.

Il-eginning in the Autumn of 1950 housing study groups were organized and the search .for a satisfactory hous­ ing scheme brought results by late 1952 following negotiations between rhe Government of Newfoundland and Central Mortgage and Housing Cor­ poration. Under the arrangement worked out the Government undertook to advance temporary assistance loans to registered housing co-operative societies to cover the cost of land and const11uction materials . C.M.H.C. agreed Lo taike over the <financing on comp:Je­ tion of the homes to National Housing Act standards a,nd repay the Govern­ ment t•he temporary loan.

Each society is dissolved when its project is com­ pleted and C.M.H.C. issued ind1ividual mortgages to the members. Up until 1954 the maximum loan was $7,000 g.rnduated so as not to exceed 23 per cent of each members income. Ea11Jy in 1954 .following amendments to the National Housing Act larger loans were made available to housing co-operative societies on the <basis of 70% of the lending value. Lending value is the appraised va,Jue of the completed house and land as deter­ mined 'by C.M.H.C . This value may equal, exceed or be less than the actual cost.

At the same time arrangements were completed whereby C.M.H.C. would make progress payments to the Government as construction proceeds. Government now provides from $3,000 10 $4,000 per unit to bring the houses to the stage of construction ~vhere pro­ gress payments begin . Compared to the old arrangement where Govern­ ment advanced up to the maximum of $7,000 from its own funds, twice as

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 913 many societies may now lbe assisted with the same size vote. The minimum loan is the sma:llest amount which could 1be committed by C.M.H.C. for the smallest unit which could be built with this ty,pe o.f fin­ ancing. The theoretical minimum would be a ·house with 800 square feet of floor space, with an esDimated loan of $6,600 requ.iiring a $46 minimum montli.!y payment including taxes which would take 23% of $200 per month salary to pay off in 30 years .

Because the average co-operative build­ er would be looking for a larger house, and ,because variable figures including the size of ,house, cost of land, muni­ cipal taxes and size of families actually determine the m.inimum salary ,for eligibi,Jity, it is not possible to set down hard and fast figures. Members with a sa!Jar)' of $3,000 ,per year should not aim at a house over 1,000 square feet of floor space and the most satisfactory minimum salary ,range is $2,700 per year.

In theory, no share capital may be needed in certain cases, but we cannot envisage a society without cash invest­ ment by members to ensure staobility. Each member is required to have in­ vested at least $2'50 w:hen applying for a loan and maintain a systematic share savings program through the period of construction.

The aim of the plan is to provide good houses for those who by -them­ selves would possi,bly never be in a position to afford a ready built house or build a suitable and adequate house, but given the opportunity to pool skills with others, .take advantage of reduced materia 11 costs due to bulk buying, and given the necessary financial and tech­ nical assistance, they can build ,homes for themselves at a cost within their means. The important ,factor in Co- operative Housing is that the man who ·has to pay the cost ,is controlling the cost . There is no speculation or profit involved.

Therefore the house will come to the owher at an absolute min­ imum of cost. It is not possible to establish hard and fast rules as to marital status and present housing accommodation in de­ termining what factors would disqual­ ify prospective membe ,rs but it has been agreed that homes aire for owner occupancy . Single persons will require co-covenantors, and, as a rule, must produce evidence of intention to marry am:! occupy the units. Special cases of single persons will be judged on merit.

Those who have suitable ac­ commodation now are not eligible and nobody may avail of this scheme more than once although they may avail of assistance under other N.H .A. ·financ­ ing schemes. At February 28th, 1955, there were 27 housing co-operative societies regis­ tered under the Co-operative Societies Act while eight unregiste,red societies were in the study and plaruning stage.

Thirteen societies have received finan­ cial assistance, two others were ap­ proved last fall but were advised to defer construction until spring due to the lateness of ·the season, and a con­ tinuing society registered ten years ago has been assisted. Twenty societ­ ies are al St. John's, nine at Gander, one at Grand Falls and five at Comer Brook.

The Department of Fisheries and Co-operatives works with each group through the period of study to the point of inconporation, continuing thereafter in an educational and ad­ visory capacity, setting up its records, and, in conjunction with the Depart­ ment of Municipal Affairs, making periodic inspections until mortgages

914 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS are executed with C.M.H.C., the Gov­ ernment repaid, and the Society is wound up. Fiuancing through sta1,ter funds by Government and progress payments by C.M.H.A., is done through the De­ partment of Municipal A,ffairs to whom applicatfons for financial assist­ ance a,re directed under enaJbling ,leg·is­ lation provided in the Slum Clearance Act. As soon as ,possible after organ­ ization societies are required to fur­ nish Dhis Department with information to obtain credit rating and mortgage ability of each member.

Following a satisfactory report societies proceed to prepare for incorporation, procure land and compiile documents compris­ ing formal application for Joan. 1 his application must have t11e approval of both the Department of Fisheries and Co-operatives and the Depa1rtment of Municipal Affairs, and be accepted by Central Mortgage and Housing Cor­ poration.

Temporary assistance loans are for periods of two years and the interest 1,ate is the same as that charg·ecl under the National Housing Act, presently 5¼ %, So :far 134 people in 13 societies have received assistance and Dhe pres­ ent stage of construction varies from foundations laid to 19 completed houses. So carefully are costs worked out that the houses are being com­ pleted well within the estimated price by peoplle who in -the majority of in­ stances had no previous consbruction experience.

These 13 projects, at the present stage of construction together with land, represent housing to the value of $985,587. Share capital contributions by mem­ bers have reached $123,121, while ad­ vances from Government amount fo $671,744 of which $124,290 has veen repaid. Each member receives credit for his work at the rate of $1.00 per hour and labour pe11formed amounts to over $147,045. In addition to the above, a contin­ uing type of Society, the -ten year old Humber Housing Co-operative Society Ltd at Corne-r Brnok has 90 members. 57 houses have been constructed by the S'ociety to date.

Ownership is vest­ ed in the Society which owns buildings and land to ,the valne of $509,929 bnt members may receive fee simpie title i,f they so desire when their obliga­ tions are ,fu1£illed. Share Capital of the Society amounts to $404,499 and its accounts payable total $104,856. During the past -ten years i-t has been assisted by the Government to the amount of $3,000 per unit for a period of 20 years. With the completion of the projects under way the value of co-operative housing should reach the impressive total of $2,000,000 while the value of projects contemplated should ap­ proach another $2,000,000.

This build­ ing activity requiring building sup­ plies, contract work for !basements, plumbing and electrical work has cre­ ated considerable employment i,n this Province with more far reaching re­ sults than the ,provision of much needed homes in the various com­ munities.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 915 Co-operative Housing Loans to February 28, 1955 Loans aJpproved for 13 Construction Type Societies .... .. ................... $ 964,160 Loans approved for Humber ........ .. - ······ ............................. ... 153,297 Loans taken to date

(13) Loans taken by Humlbe.r $671,744 1•53,297 $1,117,457 725,041 Ba.Janee Undra•wn ....................... ............. ·-···· ······· .. ·•··· ....... .... ....... . .. $ 392,416 Loans Repaid Edinburgh ................... _ ............................................................. . $ 64,200 60,290 Bloomfield ...................................................................... ............ . $ 124,290 50,386 $ 174,676 Value of Projects to February 28/55 13 Construction ·type societies ........................................ 134 houses $ 985,588 509,929 Continuing type society (Humber) ................. ...... 57 !houses HON.

E S. SPENCER (Minister of Public Works) : Mr. Speaker, I hap· pen to have some information jn reply to a question asked by the honourable member for St. John's ·west, but I have not copies of -the reply. Inas­ much as the honourable member is not in his seat, I think I should defer the information uutil he oomes. MR. SPEAKER: Unless the Hon· ourable Leader of the Opposition would like, the answer might wait. Are there any further Answers to Questions? MR. •M. M. HOLLETT (Leader of -the Opposition) : I believe, Mr. Speaker, there are still a ,few outstand­ ing. I was hoping we might get them today. HON. J. R.

SMALLWOOD (Prime Minister) : Mr. Speaker, before you call the Orders of the Day, there is a state­ ment I wouild like to make to the House, it is in connection with tbe 191 $1,495,517 medical and public health servioce in White Bay. Now I should say in the first place since 1949, that is, since this Government came into power the Gov­ ernment have finaJnced the establish­ ment of a nur•sing station, a.t Englee in Canada Bay in White Bay District. The Government have financed the opera­ tions of an additional medical boat in w·hite Bay, carrying a doctor or nurse or both.

Thirdly the Government have made substantial ,contl'ibutions towards the building of a sanatorium wing at St. Anthony Hospital. This sanatorium wing serves vVhite Bay and part of St. Barbe District and also Laibrador. The Government have also arranged and announced the construc­ tion of another nursing station, name­ ly, at Rodclickton in this present year. Then again, since 1954, since last year, ~he Government have 'been paying for the services of a public hea!lth nurse at

916 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Baie Verte. Now this position was former1ly paid by Bowaters. The post had been vacant for a while. Now lhese are services which the Government have already rendered in \Vhite Bay since we came into power, and taken together they constitute a very great advance of what White Bay had before we came into power, a very g-reat advance indeed. Our programme will continue, however. T1l1is is only a beg·inning.

We can say now today that we will build another nursing station at Jackson's Arm, and I can announce today that we will build still another nuning station, a new nursing station, at LaScie. Then, Mr. Speaker, I am happy to announce something entirely new and almost revolutionary in the public heaath matters in Newfound­ land. That is to say, we wi'11 station in St. Anthony an aircraft. We will station it in S-t. Anthony, in the cus­ tody -and under the control of the In­ ternational Grenfell Association. And this ai1,craft 'Will be for two pui,poses, one to take a doctor out from St.

Anthony ,to vi&it patients ,in White Bay District and in St. Barbe District, be­ cause an aircraft when setting out from St. Anthony, obviously by flying at a slightly dififerent angle can land in Bonne Bay or at the head' of White Ray. There is very litnle difference. And this same ah-era.ft will serve Lab­ rador, at 'least the southern part ·of Labrador in that same respect. It will take doctors or nurses out from St. Anthony -to visit the patients in their own settlements. Then, in addition to that, t,hf' aircraft will serve a second purpose, namely, it will bring patients lo the hospital at S't. Anthony.

This aircraft will be based permanently al St. Anthony, and will operate the year round, insofar as weather wim allow her to do so. Then, continuing om· programme in White Bay, we will construi:t this year a snowmobile llain from Conche to Roddickton, to provide for the people of Conche easier aci:ess, an easier means of getting to the nursing station at Roddickton in the winter months.

T.hen again, continuing our public health p110gmmme in that part of our province, we will assist the medical doctor at Baie Verte to ·travel much more extensively on the south side of White B,ay, 1by helping in the travelling expenses of his boat and in other ways. And finally, we will inaugurate this year, for this part of Newfoundland, a new pre-paid hospitalization scheme for White Hay and for that pa-rt of St. Barbe District which is not already covered by hospital services. Let me make this clear. ,-ve will esta,blish this year a pre-paid hospitalization scheme for White Bay and for that part of St.

Banbe District •which is not already covered by 'hospi-t•aliw.tion, This ivill enable people in White Bay in that part of St. Barbe Dist<rict not already covered to come, if lhey wish, within lhe plan or under Lhe plan of a pre­ paid hospilalization scheme with the hospital at St. Anthony being the hos­ pital providing l'hese services. The subscriptions from the people no1,th­ ward from Harbour Deep wiH be col­ leded ,by the IGA and southward from there the fees will be collected by the Departrneul of Health. Now, Mr. Speaker, this is not all.

This is all for &his year, 1955, the one hundredth anniversary of the granting of Responsible Government. What we have done will be added to, what we will do this year, make~ one of the most attractive accomp,lishments of the Government in any part of Newfound­ land, and •I am very p,roud and happy that the Government which is so grate­ ful, so deeply gratefu'i, to the people

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 917 of White Bay for helping to bring Confederation and helping to bring this Government i,nto power are now beginning gradually to have our grnti­ tuc.le shown back to them. Orders of the Day Second Reading of Bill, "An Act to Incorporate the Newfoundland Assoc­ iation of Archi,tects :" MR, COURAGE: Mr. Speaker, this is a Bill to permit the architects of Newfoundland to incorporate them­ selves into a Newfoundland Assooiation of Architects.

The purpose of the Bill is for the professional advancement of the architeots, This Bill .has come up before in the House, but owing to pressure of business <it has never been possiMe to get it even as far as this stage. Should there be any clauses in it of a controversial nature they can be considered during the Committee Stage, but, as I see it, the principle of the Bill is merely that these architects, and the people that signed the peti­ t,ion, all the recognized architects of Newfoundland, are asking for this Bill.

As I said before, the principle is that they be allowed to incorporate them­ selves into the Newfoundland Associa­ tion of Architects for the professional advancement and improvement of the profession. M,r. Speaker, I move the second read­ ing of the Bi!ll. On motion Bill read a second time. MR. SPEAKER: According to standing orde,rs on Private Bills this Bill must now be referred ,to a ,5elect Committee iwho ,will hear arguments for and against. I will appoint tht> following me1nlbers to constitute the Committee on ,this Bill: The honour­ able and 1learned member for St.

John's East, the honourable and learned member for Fortune Bay and Hermitage, the honourable member for Burgeo and LaPoile, bhe honourable menilber for T,r.inity South, ~he honour­ able member for ·Placentia West, and the honourable member for Green Bay. Committee on Supply: MR. SPEAKER: Leave was given yesterday that this Committee sit again today. ,r do now leave the Chair. Mr. Courage Chairman of Committee on Supply: Department of Mines and Resources : VUI: MR. CHAIRMAN: The Committee was considering •thos item and I be­ lieve the last clause was 805. 808 Crown Lands and Surveys : HON. DR. F. W.

ROWE ~Minister of M.ines and Resom,ces) : Mr. Chai,r­ man, I notice there is only one hon­ ourable gentleman on the other side this morning. Perhaps it would sim­ plify matters a little if I took the re­ maindng

section here and gave a word of explanation about one or two new things in them, or increases which might show here and there. 808 is fairly routine. Crown Lands and Survey Parties are more or less permanent things, going on over the Province during the summer season. 808-03-05 Publication of Maps (re­ vote), I may say a word on that. As bhe Committee knows, for two or three years we ·have been wor~ing on a new general map of the Island of New­ foundland, that map in fact was com­ pleted this Fall, but because of there being a Redistribution Bill in the House publica.tion of it was held up.

I may say, for the information of the Committee, this will be the first ac­ curate map of Newfoundland ever made, based on aerial photographs of

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS every square inch of the island, and contains over three thousand entries on it, which is twice as much as was ever on a previous map, and it indi­ cates other information ,which will be available to a~l as soon as the Redistri­ butrion Bill has become

an Act in this House, when the publication of that map will be proceeded wirh. A-erial ,photographs, these were pur• chased from the Federal Government. Then under Wild Life, Mr. Chafr­ man, it will be seen that there is a development item of $20,000. That item is to take care of a numlber of items approved by the Government emanating from the Report on Wild Life made lby Dr. Ga1b1:ielson this year.

These projects are, a smvey of our ptarmigans, long overdue, I might say, in view of the importance of that to us ,both from the standpoint of food and recreation and, for that matter, in­ come too. \Ve have engaged the serv­ ices of an outstanding soientist in this matter, who is even now rbeginnfog his . ~urvey. -It is estima-ted it will cost a1ho11t. $8,000. The Commit·tee will 1·e­ rnember the survey of moose. We have, in fact, more information on moose than that possessed by any other government on the face of the earth, and that information is very valuable. Dr.

Galb'.delson recommended a similar one on caribou which we begin this year also, for which ,there is also a provision of $4;500 and a beginning on a survey of beaver. Our beaver are c1uite valuable, as ,the Committee knows . Two years ago we opened the season, and it is thought possible that a season wi:11 be again declared open this Fall. In the meant ,ime we do in­ tend to do some d'Tastic research on beaver, such a vailualble part of the wild life economy, and also the beginning of a small survey on raibbits. Raibbits are one of the most common of ani- mals, and probaibly the one we know least a1bout.

They were extremely plentiful in other years but are ap­ pairently disappearing. lt is recom­ mended that we do mme research there. Under Beaver Pelts there is a large item of $50,000 . That provides for the possibiHty of an open season. I am sure the Committee knows the beaver trapping activity is contrnlled by the Department of Mines and Resources. The p,rocedut·e is that all sales are made through the department. Mr, Chairman, I don't think there is anybhing very ne-w insofar as general! geological surveys are concerned. We have a provis.ion of some money there for, amongst other things, a study of silicosis.

MR. HOLLETT: Under what item is that? DR. ROWE: Under 820-03-02. We are carrying on some basic study in silicosis . Our diamond dr.illing is not so heavy, of course, as might reasonably be expected. The reason for that is that so much of our land has been leased out in the form of concessions. The printing and photography show some expansions. That has been en­ larged in the last yeair, and a new one set up. It was actually not under way last year. ·we are beg.inning to take on more and more of rhe work that was formerly farmed out. We have added some new machinery, and of course, some additiona,I staff.

I would sugg~~t. Mr. Chairman, that if there is any 'honourable gentleman here, and I am sure there must be some, who had not seen this division, shou'1d do so at ,the earliest date, because a la}' man could not hope to explain its working. It is a fascinating thing do-

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 919 ing a great deal of photographic work for nhe Government departments, photographing such things as charts and maps and surveys and blueprint­ ing. H is doing a good deal of photo­ gTaphic prrinting. A sample of the work being done is that Report of the Wild ,Life, which I tabled here in the House some weeks ago. That was done entirely by our printing dtivision. I think these are the salient items ,in the remaining divisions of the department. I shall be glad to answer in detail questions which any honournble mem­ ber might wish to ask. MR.

HOLLETT: I take ,it the suT­ veys will not be so extensive as •last year? For some reason or other you reduced the vote by eight thousand dollars . DR. ROWE : The real reason there, Mr. Chairman, is the shortage of staff. W'e have two vacancies there and it .is very unlikely 'We will fill them early this year. It is very dif­ ficult to get technical staff here in Newfoundland, competi~ion is so keen. That is the ,reason why. :If we had a full staff we would proba:hly be doing more. MR. HOLLETT : What par,t of the terrain does ,the Honoura:b'1e Minister survey, as we have NALCO and BRIINCO? DR.

ROWE : These are Crown Lands surveys, these have nothing ,to do with mines. On motion 810 - Miscellaneous Serv­ ices .carried. 811 Wild Life: MR. HOLLETT: MT. ChaiTII1an, there is an interes~ing vote there. I notice the vote has gone from $43,000 to $84,000. The Minister has pointed out that $50,000 ,of that .is for a survey of ·beavers. DR. ROWE: No, not a survey. I probably did not maike it clear. That $50,000 is for the purpose of beaver pelts. There is a compensating amount under revenue. The sales are made to the Department of Mines and Re­ sources.

That was the policy of the Commission of Government in order Lo control it. MR. HOLLETT : How ,is the policy working out? DR. ROWE: It has been found that it is the best way to control it. In fact, as the Honourable the Prem­ ier has reminded me, it was done be­ fore Commission of Government. We have not heard any complaints aJbout it. MR. HOLLETT: I can quite see, naturally, that the protection of beav­ ers should come under the Depart­ ment of Mines and Resources, Mr. Chairman, but I am wondering ~f the disposal of the beaver pelts might not be a1'lowed to be put in private hands? MR.

SMALLWOOD: The Govern­ ment purchase the pelts and put them in the fur ma;rket through the Hud­ son Bay Company, or Canadian auc­ tion fur companies, and pay the trap­ per according to whatever they get. MR. HOLLETT: The trapper than he benefits thereby would in normal is done in bulk? more so ways just because it One other thing, I read the Report (I think it is a very good report) but I clo not know if anybody can enlarge on what •is generally known about the ptarmigans, But I do think t'he foxes and crows 1have a lot to do with the disappearance, with destroying the eggs and young in the Spring of the year.

Now I kno,w we can control that, but ,1 am afraid, if we adopt the I ~

920 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS attitude taiken iby Dr. Ga,brielson, that it is not due to that at all, but that it is due to lack of food and climatic conc1ibions. MR. lSMALLWOOD: We have had that a great many years, climatic con­ ditions, since ResponsiJb,Je Government and even longer than that. MR. HOLLETT: I remember when you could see hundreds and hundreds of partridge an<l ra'bbits hanging up in the stores. You ,won't find that today, because the rabbits and part­ ridge are not there.

We have hun­ dreds of thousands of foxes and weas­ els and• other preda -tory animals roam­ ing around the country, parti-cularly in the Spring of the year, starving to death, attacking the partridge and the eggs in the nests. I think that is the reason. Of courne we know there are a good many hunters on the g,rounds, but ninety per cent of these hunters don't shoot very many of them. DR. ROWE: I might say, the Gov­ ernment is not of course ad'opting that plan. The very fact that Dr. Gab­ rielson recommended the survey ·is an indication his mind is not at ease on the matter.

Further on he recom­ mends we m~ght make a little inves­ Ligati·on into the effect of ,wolves on caribou suppl.ics in Labradoa·. MR. SMALLWOOD: What about wolves in St. John's, t,wo-legged and four-legged, DR. ROWE: One report we re­ ceived from St. Miichael's Bay said there were as many as forty wolves seen at one time on the marshes there, and as a result people had tremendous difficulty in getting caribou. We hope to do some survey down there. The Committee might recall that wolves were at one time so p'lentiful in New- foundland that the Government for many years instituted a bounty scheme.

I thfak the last payment was in 1912. MR. HOLLETT : There are none left now? MR. SMALLWOOD: Two-legged wolves, lots of them . "Ve are exter­ minating them gradually. l\·1R. HOLLETT: Since they came into power, I think the Government are exterminat -ing the ,Nater Street, two-legged wolves. T·hey are granting out so many huge loans they are mak­ ing them over,Eat and not willing to extract the .flesh of the people as they did before. That is one way to do ,it, of course . MR. SMi\LLWOOD ; Kill th em with kin dness. MR. HOLLETT: They don't have to ta'ke the flesh of the fishermen.

Would the Honouraib'le Minister tell me what form this survey on ptanni­ gan will take. DR. ROWE: Very ,briefly: We have engaged the services of Dr. Hewitt of Cornell University, generally regarded as ~he foremost authority in that type of game-bird in North America. He was engaged, I believe, by one of the western ,provinces to do a similar survey in one type of bird.

He has a year's leave from Cornebl and is now beginning the survey, the idea being· Lo try and f.ind out the things we don't know, to •what eHect Lhey are being influenced by food and what extent by .foxes and weasels, etc., and a num­ ber of other things - ,J was serious when I said - cl:imate. There is some evidence that the damp summers of recent years have hindered the hatch­ ing of the eggs, and the almost con­ tinuous dampness ca,used a great many

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 921 of the eggs to go ste11ile. But the whole thing is on•!y speculation, and we will attempt ,to get some concrete information in this and a Jot of other matters . It might be, for example, that as a result of this survey he will recommend to the Government tha,r we shou1d put on a dosed season for two or three years, or it might be re­ commended that we take other steps. MR. HOLLETT : Mr. Chairman, when we speak about climatic condi­ tions, I don't see how the Government can do anything a'bout that.

And I don't see the point of having some learned doctor come in and tell the effects of climatic conditions on part­ ridge. We have this Report, and what more do we want . The Hon­ ourable Miin.ister told us he would be ~ble to tell us what sort of food the pa1·tridge eat. Anrbody who shoots the birds or cleans them should know what is found in the crop of these bfrds. It is not too much t·rouble to find out what they eat. What they eat is twigs, blueberries, and partridge berries. That is easily seen. We don't need a doctor to come in and tell us that. I hate to say this Government is wasting money.

If they put a bounty on fox tarils or something they would not have any worry about partridge. 11hat ,is ten thousand more not down the bogs but over the bogs. On motion 829-03-02. Carried '. MR. HOLLETT : On that item, 820-03-03, I have seen that, Sailt Sur­ vey, in the e5timates some time. I notice it .is now down to $5,000. Is there anything being done on that in recent years? DR. ROWE: Yes, Mr. Chairman, dur.ing the past two years the depart­ ment has been carrying on a survey in areas where salt was ,ind,icated. As a result they have received certain in- format-ion.

This year it is proposed to carry on dfamond drilling. The survey decides wlhether salt is there or not . The diamond drilJLing, which must follow on that will decide ih what depth and what quantity and what type, etc., :by cores which can be analyzed. That is what is proposed. That five thousand is .for diamond drilling ,in areas ~urveyed in the last few years. On motion carried. MR. HIGGINS : Talking about diamond drilling, has Mr. Fox packed up and giiven up d1,ilt!ing altogether? DR. ROWE : Our report is that Mr. Fox is more or less drnwing out of tthere.

Vl1e have heaird another company is taking over his rig, and they told us they were taking over the equipment with the intention of doing oil dr,illing elsewhere in New­ foundland. MR. HIGGINS: You mean they have not made any approach to the Government for perm•ission to drill:' DR. ROWE: Many of these areas are held in fee simple. MR . HOLLETT : To what extent is diamond drilling done by the de­ partment? BR!INCO -is doing diamond drilling and NALCO and also private companies are diamond drilling. I fai1l to see ,where the department is involved to the extent of $25,000. DR. ROWE: Mr.

Chairman, there are stiH large areas of Crown Land left -in the province, and areas revert every year ti> the Crown. As there must be, we have geological surveys, and where geological surveys indicate some .interesting phenomena then a recommendation is made that it be follow ed by diamond drilling. Actually the cost of diamond drjlJing is fofin<i-

922 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS tesimally small. That amount, I think, is much 1ower than it used to be. The reason why it ,is lower is that so much other drilling is going on in these areas given a·s concessions to these com­ panies. MR. HOLLETT: Have you yom· own diamond d11ill? DR. ~OWE : Yes. It is sometimes rented out. On motion 802-03-04, 802-03-06, 802- 03-07 carried. 807-03--08: MR. HOLLETT: Consumable ~up­ plies - that could be anything could it not? It could ibe for liquor. DR. ROWE : It is miscellaneous supplies, things like blueprint paper and so on.

On motion 802-03-08, 802--03-09 car­ ried. 821 Printing and Photography: MR. HOLLETT: There is an iin­ crease Lhtre of $10,000 - ,but that was explained. There is some increase in the salaries too? DR. ROWE : That is an ,increase in the sta<ff. We put in new machines in the past few months. On motion 821 carrJed. On motion Department of Mines and Resources carried , MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Chair­ man, we have now £inishcd with cur­ rent account, and ,wil!l turn, of course, to capital account , commencing at the Depar tment of Finance, actually the Consolidated Fund Serv,ice which is the same thing.

This is for the punpose of redeeming any cas·h Joans made by the banks to various concerns in the Newfoundland Government's guarantee. T[le firms and amounts are as follows: Fortune Bay Products $200,000. For­ wne Shipping $2'50,000. These two are, of course, associated . cmnparnies in the large new fish plant at Fortune, and we advanced them these two amounts totalling just less than half a mil1ion, to enaiYle them to enlarge the plant and lo acquire boats to supply the plant with more fah, Penney & Lake $650,000. That was a loan to the firm of John Penney and H . B.

Clyde Lake Limited jointly, to enable them to take over and enlarge on the op erat-ion of the Burgeo fish plant. Eckhardt Mills $160,000. The ex­ planation of that ds that it ,was to en­ able them to build a large new sta£,£ house for some of their key personnel, some of whom, but not ail, would come from Austria. A1berto Fisher,ies $59,700. At the moment I cannot say what that .is for. Newfoundland Asbestos, Andrews Newfoundland Fisheries and Olsen Whaling and Sealfag, making a total of $1,432,200, ¼'hich we have called $1 ;550,200.

Now as to these last three items, my colleague the Mini ster of F.isheries is absent obtaining some information on Al'berto fisheries. ,J can mearuwhile say something about Olsen Whaling and Sealing. As the Committee wil.l be aware already, this firm has some­ thing in the neighbourhood of four hundred thousand dollars, which they were to reduce by semi-annual or an­ nual instalments of $37,500, -which they did until the last payment fell due, when they just were not a,ble to meet it. So, as that. was done by guarantee at the bank, we had to ,pay it, and we

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 923 charged ,it up to vheir accounit. In other words, whait ris meant reaJly is tlhat the amount lb-y I\V'hich they have reduced •the loan, aind the annual in­ stalment wh:ich -ohey could not meet when -it ca;me due we met at tih.e bank and charged •it up ,to ,ohem. There again, II 'believe, as in ·~he case of And­ rews Labrador Fis,henies, they have been reducing the prin'Cipal by pay­ ments periodically, except iJhe last pay­ menit rwhich they could not meet.

So we met it at the bank by gua,rantee, not rw,irth cash. rNow we ·ask the House to ra,tirfy our a·ction and au,~hm,ize the ,payment, in fact ju conneotion with all of them, in case ohat du·ring the year the necessity arlises for ohe Government to make certain payments. We have not budgeted! for these paiymenits. The House had not aubhopi,zed • tlhe making o>f trhese paymen 1ts, a11d so we do rit by asking tihe bank to rpay on our guar. an.tee, and fhen we come back to the House rwhen we orpen again, and ask for raoificatfon of whart we have done. T:ha-t is what we do un ~his parti'cular m~ote.r now. MR.

HOLLETT: Mr. Chai,rman, let us take -~he last one ,£irst, Olsen Wrhaling and Sealing. Irt looks to me very much like ohlis is just something to ,take care olf a comment made in the PulbHc Accounts rby ,the AuditoT General in regard -to Olsen W'h:aling and Sea!,vng - S424,000 amount of loan guaranteed Jby Uhe province, April 1950. llnstalments due •in I 95,1 ancl 1952 were paid 1by the company, •how­ ever -the trhird and fourth instalments and aocrued lb-ank ·interest on <the loan were not pa,id ,by 1the company, con­ sequently 1the Government had to make good ,the gua ,rantee.

NOl\v an agreement :has 1been completed 1between the Government and •the compan y re­ garding trhe payments. Gould ,~he Minister tell us what this agreement [S, with regard to the re­ payment of t'he balance? ,I,t seems like ~hey 1have not been doing anyth 1iing wit'h regard to pa·ying ·back the loan s-ince 1952. Each year the G'overnmenrt, therefore, lhas to make good thait amount a t the bank. Tha-t same thing a,prplies to all the others. Can the Honoura:ble Mi.ni!>ter tell us what agreement is made '11.()llV? MR.

SMALLWOOD : The IHonou,r­ alble Minis·ter of Fisheries has gone 1to telep'hoine his office, ,I mu~t say this, dhe Commi,t.tee must surely rbe aware of the fa.ct •t'hat .l'he ~vlhaJiing market almost collaipsed completely in fhe 'llihole ~vorld. The smalles,t price for whale oil at w.hich irt ,would be pos­ sible to opernte a whaling ,fleet and rplant in Newfoundland so as to break even, not ,to ma,ke money, ibut to lbrea;k even, is, I tJhink, 13c. a pound for the oil. But t,he price dropped to Ile. and •lOc., and I lbe1ieve it collapsed even low er than that, 1to 9c. a pound.

But ther e ,is a strong trend back again, rnpward again, and t·here is a strong possibility, if not an a1bsoluite prolba tbi­ lity tha,t t'he plant ~vill resume -t1his year, and it miglht resum e this year its whaling operations. The last conver­ sa,Dion I had .in the mauer wi~h any­ one who knew any•Dhii.ng about it, gave me 1the impi-ession that they might resume their opem~ions agaiin this year and if not this year then probaibly next yea.r, if the marke-t continues i,ts pi-es­ ent ~rend back towards 1'3·c.

Trhe ,pos·i­ tion wit'h. •regard to the agreement is t'ha-t, ,instead of our tpaTring orff dhe whole of the loan, ~,1hich 11 suppose we would feel l,ike doing if we had no horpe fo·r 'lhe ~ulure of 1L1he company, 1'hen ll think we would ,pay oH the loan, .foreclose, take over the property, sell o6f a,nd realize wihat iwe could, and take our r!oss. But ,as we •have fuith [n t,he company and in the future of l'he wlhaling industry, as iwe rbelieve iit must

924 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS come 1back, we have not done that. ,,ve ihave not taken rhat course of a,ctoion, ra-ther we 'hav e ,paid the instal­ ments as Vhey fell due at •the bank. vVe h ave paid them under our gua,r­ antee, leav1in:g the balance rema,ining s•tiDI outs tanding in th e belief, and in the hop e, •that the company itsel'E, when it resumes upera ,tions, tlhat is when Uhe whaling induHry i·tsel,f can funotion again on this s,ide of •the At­ la,rntic, Uhey rwill be able -to meet their mvn payments. MR. HOLLETT : Tlhat :is ,aH very fine, Mr. Chainnan .

I have eve1·y sympai~hy for the operators, lbut now I £ind •Dhey pa•id ba·ck only $75,000 on a guaranteed loan of $424,000. That means -the Government will have to 1nake good 1t 1hc ,balance, unless t,hc wh,all>ing industry wmes 1baok . That wifil lbe $349,000 plus •the interest whidh will have 1to lbe rpaid i.n the case of the Ols en Whalin:g and ,Sealing. Tlhere a,re ollher cases of the Government oo­ ing the same thing. !In ouher ,words, the Government made a bad invest ­ ment when they guaranteed the loan of ,this money. In tihe mea11JW1hile I take it •Uhe Gove1,nment has a mortgage on the ships. MR.

S!MiALLWOOD: On everythi.ng. MrR . HOLLETT : Are they ,in op­ era-tion in other busliness? MR. SMALLWOOD: Some are tied up, some a·re -in operation, ice­ breaking operations . MR. HOLLETT: Has Uhe Govern­ ment got insurance? MR. SMALLWOOD: Yes, the Gov­ ernment is amply covered in th:at ,re­ speot . MR . HOLLETT : Tlhe Govemmernt will admit uhey are •takn.ng a bet on Olsen to the •tune of about - MR. SMALLWOOD : ,I would say Newfoundland, the •company 1Dhe fish­ ermen and ·t·he Government. MIR. HOLLETT : When you pu't it dhat way. MR. SMA·LLWOOD: His the only way to ,put it.

H tis 1bad for ,v,il>liams­ port, , -bad for uhe fis,hennen do,wn -there who get jdbs in the plant, for ,the men on the boats catching the whaUes, for ~he ·D'lvners and lbad for tlhe Govern - ment. T•he only people it is not bad for is ,the ,bank . '1t might even lbe good for -~he Opposi >tion . But only i-f they can divorce •~hemselves complete­ ly .fo-om Newfoundland's interest, and they cannot do that. .MIR. HOLLE:TT : I wonder i•f I sat at tihis desk, !Mr.

Ohaoirman , •instead of :,tand•int up, iwould 11 1be alble to speak . [ would hate to interrupt the con­ versation bellWeen the Honouralble the Premier and ·Uhe honourable member for ·Port de Grave. .MR . OHA!IRMAN : II don't tlhink •the !honoura1ble member for Port de Grave has made any noise. MR. HOLLETT : -1 am pointing out, it :is the people in •Dhrls province who are losing to •the tu.ne of $349,000 on a >bad deal! ·by •Uhe Government. Put it how you like. Say it is 'important to the people of Wi11liamsport etc.

But the Government is going to guarantee loans like ,vhat all down •tihrougih the rest of i1ts remaining his,tol'y, which I truH f\Vlill be very ~hort, tihen God >help us in •~he futu-rel Now [ remember the story of ithe ·LegJuniug u,f Dhat loan l:>y ,the Go,vernment. But '[ don',t rwant 'lo take 1the House lback inito that story aga,in . We are all sorry ·Uhe whales are not coming our way, alt•houg'h we can •turn to the poUhead and minke whales now. A suggestion was brought here yesterday 1to trap potheads or

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 925 something 1'ike ,vhat. W!hy not use these s,hips to take over ,instead olf incurring extra expenses? Now tihen we come to Andirews Fish­ eries. I believe the Honourn ,b'le Min­ ister of F,isheries is to make a state­ ment on thalt. I would refer to the Pll'bi1ic Accounts 1954 - Tlhis ~s 11he Audii1tor General - "S41,912 - This represents ithe amount ,wlhich ·the Gov­ emment was required -to pay because of the failure of the company to meet, on -the due date, Vhe second instalment of a bank loan guaranteed 1by Govern­ ment.

Since t'he dose of the year Government has paid the 1bhird insta ,1- ment of $40,000 due on ,this loan. In accordance with the terms of an agree­ men,t made between Government and Andrews Laibrador Fishenies Limlited , instalments paid !by Government were to ;be repaid by an initial pa·yment ol $8,000 on 15 August l 9i>3 and su!bse­ quen:t annual ,instalments of ~16.000 due on 30 April ea'dh year. To date the :first and second instalments have not been paid." HON. W. J. KEOUGH (M4ni&ter of Fisheries and ,Co-operatlives) : I don't know ,what the .Premier has actuaNy told the Comm-it·tee .

Tlhe posi,t.ion is as stated. This $41,9'12 is piicked u,p, and the balance olf Andrews loan be­ comes due in April. MR. HOL,LETT : ,I have sometlhing to say on tiha1t, That is a company in whioh the Government 1were a fi,fity-one per cent shareholder, and they had control o;f tha,t company until, [ ,be­ lieve, ,] 954, fast ,year. Tlhat was a Government-lbaoked compan,y, and the shares were tllivided as to 5,1 % in Vhe hands of uhe Government, in the name of Uhe Honoumible Minister of Fish­ e11ies and Co-opera1bives.

INOIW 'l ihave personally not'hing agafost -t-he Andrews Fi&heries, but I do remernber tha,t sometime 1back they were one of the companies whi:ch did not make good ~he paymellJt to ,the fiS'he1,men on fisJh. MR. KEOUGH : That is not :i;iglht. MR.

HOLLETT: 'lncidentally I have been ap:p1'ised of the ,f.act certain fish­ ermen -in Conception Bay, ,and I think ,the 1honoura lb]e memlber fur Po11t de Grave will have some know:Jedge of this, quite a number of .fis·hermen sold fish to bhis lfirm i·n the Fa;lff of 1953 w:hen this firm was owned, to all in­ tents a·nd pu11poses, 1by Vhe Govern­ ment, 1tlhese men, so 11 ha•ve ibeen told , s,old 'their fish on open receipt to tlhe Andrews LaJbmdor Fisheries. They were ,paid S3.60.

I can ibning evidence here to show ithat ovher tfiish merdhants in Conception Bay at t'hat same period in 1953 paid ,the fishermen $4.60 for bhe same kind of f\ish, ,which was heavy-salted fish, not dried. I ~vowld like the Go·vemmen,t to explain to me how they could 'hav e aII01Wed tha-t to 'h<!!ppen wlhen .at thait panicular time t1he Gove1,nment o<wned fi.f.ty-one per cent of the shares in this company. M.R. MERCER : The honourabl e genVleman is ,giving aiway my case.

MR. 1HOLI.JETT : I did not k:noiw the honouralbl e member ·had a case and [ d'on',t see the 1honou•ra1ble memlber as a law,yer, II see 1in him a memlber of t1he House ·repres enting a district. He m ay have an LLB after h'is name, but tha,t is not im1pm'~ant here . He represents ~he peop!le of the coun-try just as mudh as the people of Port de Grave. MR. MiER:CER : You do too. MR. HOLLETT : T:ha•t is why I am saying this. MR. OHA;LRIMAN : [ think ,t,he honoura 1ble member for Port de Grave is bothering the Honouralble Leader ~f the Opposition.

926 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS MR. HOLLETT: T,hat is ,inten­ rional. I ,know the inrtention Uhat Js designed. H does not get ,~he 'hon()iUr­ a/ble member for 'Port de Grave any­ where, not even wibh me, the people in PoI't de Grave nor ,in Newfound­ land. rI was <talking albout tlhe Andrews Lrubmdor Fdsheries. MR. CHAIIRMAN : The honour­ arble m.emiber must not become per­ sonal. MR. HOLLETT : No, ,Mr. Chair­ man, I don't :wish to 1beoome personal. I am coming -very much a,t ·bhe Gov­ ernment who is not a person. 'J don't think ,uhey are a person.

But they were a person in -the matiter olf And·­ reiws Labrador F,isiher,ies. And II make ,t!he st,atement now, and II think :I can d:e!fy anyibody to u,pset ~he sta,temenrt that <when t'ha.t fish was ;-old in 1951:! ~he Andrews La1brado 'l· Fi•&heries was a Government-01Wned oom,pany up ,to 5'1 % s-hares, at ,the t'ime •Uhey lboug,ht t•he ,eish from 1t,hese men ial Port de Grave Di~trict. They bought anywhere from eig,ht ilo ten thousand quintals. I don't -kno,w ,tlhe exaot amount. T 1his Goverrnme11l-vw11e<l wmpanry buug1ht il, and -they paid for ,it on open receipt a,t $3.60.

And since 1953 tihese filsher­ men have been endeavouring to col­ lect ,rhe extra dornar, !because rwhen you sell on open receipt, iI -thinik, i,t entitles f.i51hermen ,to get ·the current price. And bhe current pri'ce ,that year was $4.60 a qu1intall. These fishermen have been foakin:g .for tlrnt ex,tra dollar from Andrews Labra:dor Comp,rny and have not been a!ble to get any satisfaction since 1953. I bring this up ,because it is not only bhe people of ,Porit de Grave 1but all ,vhe l1iis1hermen of Newfoundland · are concerned.

And II ~hink a statement from the Government should he made in order to dear uhis matter up i1f possilble. Otlhe!'Wise ,the Government ought -to make good ,the doMar a qll'in­ :tal ,whiioh ,these ,fis,he.rmen claim, In thait ,the Government a'l ,that time was 51 % owner of this company o.f And­ rews La:brador Fisheries. I wonder if the M,inister would care to make a statement on ·bhat? MR. SMALLWOOD : 'Jlhe matter is Jn the lhands of •the lawyers. Why should we? Lt is COOlling lbefure the couTt. W!hy not Iet ,~he court se~tle it? MR.

HOLLETT: I say the Govern­ ment can settle it, because at the time they owned the company. It is all very well. It is not subjudice. If so, I would certainly not be allowed to go on like I am going. If it is before vhe courit and judges Lake not,ice, then, of course, I am speaking out of turn. I a,m not. I know that. Until I am stopped by orders from the court, I shall not desist untH I am stopped. MR. SMALLWOOD : The courts cannot order the honourable gentle­ man to stop. They have no jurisdic­ tion within these waJls. Not all the supreme courts put together have any jurisdiction in here.

We are above the Supreme Court in here. We make the faws. MR. HOLLETT : ,In spite of any - t'hing I say here-if it is reported in Uhe press they gel after the press . MR. SMALLWOOD : They can't do that. Have not authority to get ,after the press for reporting anythlng said in here. MR. HOLLETT : I shall have some occasion to talk about our foiend, Dr. Valdmanis, soon. I take it the same ,thing will apply. I have been informed different :ly. In •any case, let us get back to the subject in hand. I would .Jike ·the Government-I am making a charge now against the Andrews Lab•

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 927 radar Fisheries Limited and the Gov­ ernment for depriving the fishermen of Port de Grave of upwards, or ex­ actly, I think, a dollar a quintal. Now the Government may not have full knowledge of k I am not blaming the Honourable Mini11ter of Fisheries , although lhe was a shareholder and s·hould have advised the Government on that matter. Perhaps he did. I am not blam<ing the Premier.

But I am bringing it urp as a ma,t-ter of interest, because this Government is supposed, and naturally supposed, to take a great .interest in our ifi&heries and fishermen, and I a,m quite sure there is not enough-not enough-I am crit­ icizing them for thait matter. But here is a case in point where the5e fishermen have been deprived of $1.00 a quintal. God knows they need it 'bad enough since 1953. And if i,t is in the ,hands of the lawyers now, I wonder how long has it 1been in t'he hands of the lawyers.

My information is that some complaint has been made to the Governanen,t and to legal firms a ,Jong time ago, a year and a half ago or over a year at any rate. What is :hanging it up? The Government is not short of funds. Andrews Labrador Fisheries, Limited, is not short of funds because they can come to the Government any time they like and get a loan . And IJ: ·have some facts here, which I should like to state, if I can .find -~hem here in this mess of po~tage. I would not have to •bring all these papers along if I knew just what was coming up, and if we had time enoug.h to go into these things.

But we have not. We are not allowed any time-If I hang up the Committee, Mr. Chairman - MR. SMALLWOOD: H is in a good cause. The honourable gentle­ man is trying to get a vote or two. MR. HOLLETT : Mr. Chairman, I don't know what the Honourable the Premier is saying over there. MR . S'MALLWOOD : It is an up­ hill figiht. MR. HOLLETT : We have no up­ hill fight. I am not interested. I am telling the Honourable the P,remier noiw - •if he -is suggesting iwe are trying to take over his Government~I would rather he would sit on the mess and not us. MR. SMALLWOOD: That is not what the faots say. MR.

HOLLETT: Yes, but not that sort of mess. I have some facts here which I might as well dispose of now, and I won',t have •to mention them later, I hope. These men in Port de Grave sold so many thousand quintals of heavy-salted, salt-bulk fish ,to the company on open receipt. I lb.ave vhe names of several people here who sold this fish. They received the rate of $3.60 a quiintal for the same. At ~he same time other merchants, like Dawe's and Fishery Products, paid $4.60 a quintal ifor the same kind of fish.

As a matter of fact it was paid .to one of the men ~hat sold most of his fish to Andrews Labrador Fisheries, but also sold some to one of these mer­ chants. MR. KEOUGH : Does the honour­ able gentleman know what was the agreed price that year? MR. HOLLETT: It was sold on open receipt, and received ,the current price. MR. KEOUGH : 'Dhere is no such thing as selling on open receipt. The price is always agreed. The prices have always been agreed in the last couple of years. MR. HOLLETT: The honourable

928 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS gentleman is only referring to the "Bill of Cape St. George ." The fish is sold on open receipt, and a promise that they get the current price. Fish­ ery Products and Dawe's over there paid $4.60 at the time for the same type of fish and from the same in­ dividu a,J. Now at t,hat particul-ar time, and I repeat this, this company, as to shareh olders, was a 51 % Government­ owned corporation, and the Honour­ able Mr. Keough, on behalf of the Government held 353 shares of the total 704 shares .

I took the trouble to go to the Regist ,rar of Deeds and I found this: In Nov ember 1953, the shareholders of ohis company were as follows : Mr. Keough, on behalf of ,the Government , 353 shares; Ruper ,t Bartl e tt, one share; R. I. Mercer, one share; Donald Andrews 349 shares, and it was not, Sir, until October 1954 that the change was made whereby t,he sh a,res were passed over to Don Andrews, with the exception that Honourable Mr. Keougm, on beha.Jf of the Government ·had one share, and Rupert Bartlett one sha.re and R. Mercer one share. MR. MERCER : I would like to ask , what is t-hat name again? MR .

HOLLETT : R. I. Mercer, iot is not you. Excuse me for saying "you," Mr. Chairman but I was interrupted. That was in 1954, a yea,r after the fish had been sold to the company, whi ch was controlled by the Govern­ ment . Here is an interesting thing I found out too: At an extraordinary meeting of the shareholders on Ot:­ tober 9, 1953 a resolution was passed that th e directors may borrow from the Cana-di-an Bank of Commerce and the Government a sum of money not lo exceed three hundred thousand dollars.

Here you had the Minister of Fisheries, a 51 % shareholder on that date, October 1953, receiving a resolution from the shareholders that ohey could borrow three hundred thousand dollars from the Canadian Bank of Commerce and the Govern­ ment, of which he was the Minister. Now I could say a Jot more about this thing, but I am really more interested in seeing these fishermen getting jus­ tice than I am, as the Premier will accuse me, of making politics. I don't think I am interested in making pol­ itics. We are not going to have any election anyway for some time. MR.

SMALLWOOD : The last one was held last November, was it not? MR. HOLLETT: Here is some­ thing to follow that other fact. On October 9, 1953 they had a special meetiing a t wMch uhey agreed 'lO bor­ row $300,000 from •the Government and on October 8, that was the day before, October 8, 1953 they received a Joan from the Govemment of $125,- 000, and on t:he following day they passed this resolution. I have some of the history of Andrews Labrador Fisheries Limited ·here.

They received a guaranteed bank Joan in the amount of $450,000, to be repaid in equal an­ nual instalments of $40,000, the first instalment to be paid in August 1953 and subsequent instalments on the 30t'h of April each year. H appea-rs the first instalment rwas paid but none of the others, and .~he Government had ,to make good ,the balance to the bank. This amount was then turned into a cas.h loan to the company, and t!he company entered into an agreement with the Government. To date, >the Auditor General says the first instal­ ment has not been paid.

Now, Sir, without going any ·further into that, we come now to this item, whereby we have -to make good a default of payment for $40,000. And I main­ tain, Sir, ·before anything is done aibout this, this Government, if it

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 929 really, and ~ think it ought to, has the interest of our Newfoundland ~hore-fishermen at heart, this Govern­ ment ought to see that that one dol­ lar a quintal is made good to these men in Port de Grave or in any cove around Conception Bay. I would like to know if ,the Government is prepared to make a statement on that now? MR. SMALLWOOD: No, no state­ ment. MR. HOL'LETT : T'hey a,re not prepacred to make any sitatement on ~hat. M.R. 5·MALLWOO,0: No. MR.

HOLLETT : lI can only say therefore ·~he Gove.r,nmerrt is in a worse sta·te in their reiJa,t-ionshiip with t·he fohermen of ,this country than I ,bhougiht they were. Now, NewfuuncHand Aslbestos, $35,- 000. II wonder what t'he Audi1tor Gen­ eral says about ,uhat. You see, Mr.

Chairman, wlhen we think t1his Govern­ ment 'has handed out and guaranteed so muoh money since ,it came into office we lbecome somebimes a biit .wor­ •riecl as to wha,t the induS'try -really is going to lbe. 11 have consistently said, if ,the Government conrtinues to do what they ,have lbeen doing 1in the past •it ,will make very little difference wheuher or nut we went into Conlfed­ era,tion a,t a ll!, lbecause iwe will be a darn sigiht worse oJl1f than we were when we ,went 1i.nto h. II will have more to say albout it'hat later.

Newfoundland Asbestos Limited. ''In 1952 t:he Government aoaned Uh-is oompany $250,000. The related agree­ ment stipula ,ted ,that a·n amount of $37,500 on account of prindpal 1be pa-id by rhe company on or 'before the 31st df March 1954. No payments on a·ccourut of .prlLndpal have been received to date . The amount of interest out- standing and unpa ,id as at 31st Mai<ch 1954 ,was $20,308. 1I understand thait no ,payments of eith er principal or j,nterest are eXJpected until the mine goes ,in•to production." ·Cou,ld the Honouraible Minister give us some idea as to when this company is goin,g into ,product-ion?

HON. L. R. CURTI:S (Attorney General) : I 'happen ,to be represent­ ing ,the Government, Mr. Ohahman, on this Board. And ,I have been given tlhe understanding 1by ~he promote-rs that ,i,t is not u,nex,pected that the mine w,ill go iruto operabion ,t'his year. The equipm ent is all ,there ready. Every effollt is being made •to have ,the rnine operating during this year. I migiht say that reports are most en­ couraging. During the year they have discovered addi<tional finds of asbestos. Tlhat is a sdheme which •the Govern­ ment di'd not go ,in,to Jig:ht-iheartedly. I,t was recommended to us strongly by Mr.

Rukeyser, who is a foremost as­ bestos engineer . And aJ.~hough at t'he moment ~his pi-cture looks black, ,I have no personal dou1bt ,that '"•fahin a very shol't ,time the s~tuat,ion will change. MR. 'HOLLETT: Thank you very much, ,Mr. Chairman . I am very glad to hear t'hat. The Government has to pay tlhe amount Uhey guaranteed, but I hope uhey iwon':t have to ,pay any more. !I :believe h was the Minister's iirnten­ tion ,to say some thing a,bout ALberto F,isheries? MR. KEOUGH : Mr.

Chairman, ,the ex,plana~ion of the provision of $59,700 is this: ApproXJimately five years ago -the Government gave a guar­ antee at the Royal Bank of Canada, I ~hfok, for a loan of $65,000 ,to ALberto Fisheries ·Limited, to enaJble -them to

930 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 'buy a dragger and ,to equip ,tlha,t drag­ ger, or to complete the equipping . And t'he understanding was that 50% of ~he profit ea,clh year would be applied ,to repUacement of t'he loan. It so hap­ pens Lhere have not been profJ-ts in excess of .)5,300, and iby the applicaition of profi,t .i,t has not been possi'bl]e to reduce ~he loan lbeyond .$59,700.

The pr<H"ision ,is made here, the loan is dlLle a·t the 1bank on ,May 18, and ~he pro­ vision is made here in case the Govern­ ment has ,to .pick it urp, ,and of course t.lhe loan must ibe renegotiated under another g·uaranitee or bank ·Joan. MR. HOLLETT : I understood tlhe Goverrument had already paid H? MR. KEOUGH: No, not yet. M,R . HOLLETT: In regard ,to For­ tune Bay $450,000 and Lake .$650,000, I regr et these people have ·no t found it possilble to make some repayment. MR. SMAiLLWOOD: They were not supposed ,to do so up to now. These are not ,in defau J.t a,t all. MiR.

HOLLETT: You have got to make •Lha,t good yet. MR. SMA:LLWOOD : We have to make it good, But iit ,is not -in default. I,f I may explain. ,I saiid that it hap­ pens somet-in1es •that aifter ,the House has closed for one session and before the beginning of aJ1other ses~ion, in beuween the two sessions, ,the Govern­ men,t are asked to make something final before ~hey have .been authorized to do it by the last session of tlhe House, and it ·wuul<l be too late to wa•it urnt,ill the next session comes - but the Government 'has not got 1the money voted for tha,t purpose.

So the Gov­ ernment asks t•he lbank to lend the money -to -the persons concerned and the Government guarantees the ~oan, and ,the loan is for a sihort .period, i-t falls due after the next session of the House, so as ,to give the Government Vhe opportunity in ,Dha,t sesS1ion •to ,bring ,tihe mMter be.fore tlhe House and get confirma ·~ion on i;t, So that IW'ha,t ,the bank 'has advanced is a temporary loan on the Governmernt's guara•ntee, and is picked u,p lby ,ohe Government when 1the IHouse has authorized it, and the loan is tJhen a direct ·cash loan 1to the original borr()lwer.

The original •bor - ro1wers in this oase are t,wo su!l:J.sidiary companies of the ,pfant iin Fm,t:une. They received Vhe money some montlhs ago .from Vhe iba.nk. Now ,the bank wants us to pay them, as per agree­ ment, !because it was only a s·hurt ,term loan. A£ter tJha,t they 01we the money to us. MR. HOLLETT : Well 110!body is object,ing to Joans to firms ,who realJ')' have something behind 1the,m. They are ,£iSJh people, ,these people, hoth Penney and Lake. And I am quite sure muclh good wil~ come ifrom any advance whidh uhe Government makes tJhe plall!ts. The only ot:her outstanding is Eck1hard,t's.

I suppose 11 s1hould ,not 11ay very much a1bout tha,t now. The deed has been done. Or 'has •the money lbeen advarnced to the Eckhardt M'iHs? MIR. SMALLWOOD: Yes. MR. HOLLETT: 1he1'ieve they 'have opened their plant a short time ago. MR. SIMALLWOOD: 'J1his is not ,vhe ;plant, this is for the sta1Bf house. MR. HOLLETT : I ,wonder when we are going ,to stop pouring out money to •these various new imtustries, so -called.

I am informed, rightly or wrongly, when bhis plant opened its door~ ~hey had goods on display t·hey had not miade, a,t least not in tJhis rourntry. ,It came dn lby air from Ger­ many. [ don' 1t see any,thing in doing ,tJhings like that.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 931 MR. SMALLWOOD: This com­ pany began •to operate in Newfound­ land a week or ,tJwo ago, !but a year and more ago they opened a shop on W'ater Street and •tJhey opened a shop in Mont-real and opened a shop in Toronto, and ~n ,those shops •they have been selling their ,products in ~he values of tens of t'housands of dollars. T·hey brought •dhese products from their plant in Austnia.

Now the Hrst df -the Newfound0and-made goods are an sale in -their shops already, and ,I know they began to manufacture only aJbou,t a fortnight ago, that us to manu­ facture in Newfoundland, and Dhe goods are already on sa,!e in oheir ~hops, and progressively as the plant comes into more production at Briigus uhey ,will seLI only uheir Brigus-made goods and less of •their European made goods until eventually, in a mait­ ter of mornt'hs or may1be a year, whioh it may take •them •to get dnto full pro­ d!uotion, so t•hat out of the prodm,ts of •their plan •t a.t Brigus rthey •will sup­ ply not ornly •their own shops but the other trades ,they have on t,his side of fhe Atlantic as ~vell.

MR. HOLLETT: I /have very !iDble more to say on -this. T1hey 'have got ~his $160,000, I hope t,hey nvm ha1Ve good success. :r am airways in dread, Mr. Chair­ man, when a man wi•rh a sword comes near me. M:R. CHA'IRMAN : The Sergeant­ at-Arms ,has ,been merely told albout a car :to ,be removed, he was not going to stick a sword iin anTone. MR. HOLLETT: I was wondering, Mr. Chairman, i.f I had said some­ bhing out of order. MR. SMALLWOOD : Tihe colour is 1begirnning to come back into the honoumlble gentleman's iface now. On motion item canied.

Conso!i­ da•ted Fund Services : Departmernt of Educabion : On moVion item 641 -- Fixed A~ets - Carried. 644 OVher: On motion 644-01 carried. MR. SMALLWOOD : :I may say. ,Mr. Chairman , ,this is ,uhe

section of the five years during each of which it is sta,ted •that we would spend five hun­ dred thousand dollars under this head­ dng ,t,wo and a •ha,M miJI,ion in five years, a halif rniiLlion a Tea•r for Re­ gional High Schools . 644-03 - Tha,t is the cost of new schools. At Gander we are sharing the cost wi1Uh t'he Gov­ ernment of Ganada, Amalgamated and Roman Gaitlhollic !because ,they are going to move out to ,the new townsite. The Gove1,nment of Canada and the Gov­ ernment of Newfoundland !bear the cos~ of -building •~hese two new schools. Tlhat is our share for this year. MR.

HOLLETT : Does not the Government 1Dhink that ,important enough to put i,t ,in under t'he proper headling? MR. SMALLWOOD : We had fthis head•ing, you see. You don't put in a head,ing for an ex,pendi>ture •Dhat is never going ·to occur again, as a rule. On motion 644-02, 644-03 carried. Department of •Vhe Attorney General 740 - On motion carried. De-partment of Mines and Resources. 840 Loans: MR. HOLLETT : I rwonder def the Honouralble Mirrister could give a,n ex. planation? DR. ROW·E: iMr. Clm>irman, I

932 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS th•ink ·it has lbeen ex•p\ali.ned over and over again both by the Honouralble the Premier and rnyselrf. The Joan fund is for peo'P'le engaged ,in farming, peo­ ple keepi•ng lives,tock •and growing vegetables and fapming genernlly in the acceptruble sense of the word, and from t'ha•t Joan .fiund t•hey ,borrow a small amount to get new hu,ildings, to in­ crease the size o!E •rhe buildings and -to o:bta•1n ei,ther a ·new breed of live­ stock or new machinery, and such things as smaJtl tractors.

A large nurn- 1ber of farmers aJJ over tlhe province , •tJhe ,west coast especially. avail of these loans. As ,I explained to the House, the ,Joans are made on ,rhe recommen­ da,t.ions of the 'Loan Board over w1hich no one exerts any ·control whatsoever. 1It is an ·indopcndent Loan Board, ex­ cept for tJhe control exerted by this HCYUse, of course. MR. HOLLETT : How much money was put out las,t year under ·~hat? D.R. ROWE : I believe jus,t about one 'hundred tihousand dollars. Loans under 840-03, Fu,r Farm De­ vel-opment are loans for mink !farmers. MR. HOLLETT : '!,hat fa .for Dildo area?

W•ill t•he Minister tell us exaotly WheTe tihe $100,000 is to 1be spent? Is it lby rwiay of Joans, or is the Governrnen,t b ecoming engaged •in farming? MR. SMALL WOOD : H ihas been already explained ad nauseum. On motion carried. Department of Pulb\,ic Works : On motion 941-01 - Carried: 94'1-02 Roads and Bridges : Hems 941-02-01, 041-02-02 carnied : 941-02-03, 941-02-04 carried. nf:R. HOLLETT : -Is t•hat one, de­ tails on page 132, J rememlber reading - Does 'bhis mean we wi•ll get ba·ck rurnm ·Canada half that amount of eight million dollars? MR.

SMA'LLWOOD : The amount is shown on ,vhe revenue side - ap· proi-ima,tely hal,£. MIR. HOLLETT : Could we have ,tihese ·vhings read, so thait not only Vhe House lbuit ,Che general public wiH get ~he general idea of wha,t •t'he Hon· o·uratble M.inister for Pulbli'c Works 'has planned for this year? On motion 941-02-05 - Carried. On 1110-oion 941-03-01 --'Carried. MR .HOLLETT: W~1ere are these ferry landings? MR. SPENCER : For BeH Island ,1,his year. 1Poi,tuga.! Cove landling is nearly -Finished. MR. &MALI.;WOOD : And ,vhe Pla- centia ones done and pa.id for. On mrw,ion 941-03-02 - Carried.

Depa1°oment o'f HeaJ ,th : MR. SIMAlJLWOOD : That is ,vhese nursing ~taitions. 1041-01 carried. MR. HOLLETT : In conecdon w.i~h the sba•tement -rhe Honoura lble •t1he Pre­ mier made a &ho11t •t•ime a,go a1bou t Whitte Bay? HON. DR. H. L POTTLE (!'vliinis­ ter of ,puiblic We,~fore) : iU ·covers t!he ooNage hospita'1 a,t Nain, t'he nursing stat-ion at Rodc\Jickton and comp,Jet-ion of the Jmspi-tal at NoI't'h ·Wes•t R•iver. iln the case of Nain we get -two-thirds on capi•tal account from the Federal Government, lby agTeement, and a small return also on bhe other projects.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 933 MR. HOLLETT: We get some of t'ha,t lback? MR. SIMALLWOOD : Yes. 1044-03 is •capital expansion for the hospital at T,wiLLingate. On morion 1044 ·car,ded. 1141 on motion carried. Department of Munidipal A•£fafrs and Supply: 1340 Loans - On motion carried: ,MR. SMALLWOOD : A~though ,I ,vhink it is a shame not to ha,ve some­ one say anything albou t co-operative hou~ing. The 'honouraible and learned m.em'ber for St. Jo1hn's ,,vest, alt'hougih I am not permdtted to refer ,to iot, on another occasion referred to Co-oper­ a•t•ive Housing. We are very proud of it.

We norw lead all Canada •in Co­ opemtive Housing. There is no Gov­ eonment tin Canada tha.t lh!as so acti­ vely and so generously and so con­ s-tructively assiisted in Co-operative Housing Development as ,this one. VV'e are norw leading all Canada, and we are very ,proud of iit. 'Indeed the ithing !has •taken on.

II hJa.ve not seen any phase -in the co-operative field, co­ operatiive moveme,nt tba,t -took so weH as co operative housing. 'Jot lhas, how­ ever, -the unfortunate aspeot •Vhat once tJhe co-operators have got-ten their houses comp-leted and oare living in •t·hem they ·cease ·to be co-opera-tors as far as lhous>ing is concerned. But a-t all events i't iis a magnilfioient way of enalbling people 1in rela,tiveiy lorw in­ come brackets to get homes ·that t,hey might not otherwise have been a.hie to get.

Lt ,is, of course, for mo&t men ,in this -worltl a great •venture vhat ha,ppens once in •~heir lives, uf it hap­ pens :H all, ,to tbeoome -the owner of a house. Some men !become the owners of many 1housC6, or ;become •tihe owner of one house a.fter t'he other, ,but for most men ~n -the world •it is quite a venture to !become t'he owner of a thouse, ·t'he 'house •they ldve in, And in no way can people in low income 1brackets lbe assisted •Lo become thome owners lbe-tter than ~hey can lby means of this Co­ opera,tive Hous,ing. HON. S.

J. :HFJF-FERTON (M>indster of Municipa ,l Affairs and Supply) : I might at this time, Mr. Chairman, point out t'ha,t at the present ,t'ime we have ~even groups ;Which 'have ei-t1her 6inis,hed t·heir .projects and paid them oBf or wiH lbe doing w. MR. HOL'LETT : Where? MR. HEFFER TO"N : Practically all in St. Jdhn's. MR. HOLLETT : ls t•here not one in Bur1n? MR. HEFFER TON : No. MR. SMALLWOOD: Not co-opera­ tive. MR. HEFFERTON: T 1his $400,000 vote is a provi~'ion for some -ten groups either ,in •the pro-cess of staNing or ~hat will tbe ,within the next -two or ~hree monvhs.

H merely provides for the infoia,] payments under the new ar­ rangement ~vioth C.M. 8: H. whereby we advance ,tihe ·initial payment and t·hey •get iprogress payments under C,M. & H. It was a Hale ditfferent when ,we had to put up •bhe w!hole of tthe money the.fore we got any reim­ bursement. MR. HOLLETT: I regret the ab­ sence of my 1honournble colleague on my 11ight. I am sure ,he would Jtike •to express his views on •that vote. I would say on his ,beh·al,f also tihat ,r am glad to know that L'he Government is expend,ing $400,000. But was not the gran1 last year 5500,000. MR. HEFFERTON: 11 have not

934 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS t'he exact ·fiigures. :r ,Uho,nk ,1 am correct in say-iLg ,i,t was all spen:t or H no,t oommi 0t,1ed,. On motion 134] 'Carried : MR. HEflFE:RTON: Perhaips mig!ht make one comment, ,Mr. Oha-ir­ man, on Federa•I projects. Tihat -is ,the estimate of our part of •the project i.f t'he centra-1 development area goes ahead this year. Tha:t is No. 5, ,the cenitral area in St. John's. MR. HIGGI!NS : area? The Carter's -Hi·ll MR. HEFFERTON : That is righ1. On moDion can,ied. 134<1-02, ·1941-0il on motion carried.

MR. ,SMA'LLv\,-OOD : Notw rhe hon­ ouraJl:>le memiber may see the Burin i,tem there. MR. HOL1LETT : Aipparently it 1had ibeen staPted and t1hey gave up the gihost and, it lhas now· sta11ted again. MR. SMAI.JLWOOD: Something Joilke Dha!t. MiR . .HOLLETT : 11 :hope they do something 1W1i-th it. 1344 on motion carnied : Department o'f Fisheries and Co-op­ eraitives: 1440 Loans: 1440-01 on mot-ion carr,ied. 1440-02: MR. HOLLETT : That :is in ad­ di,t,ion to IWlhait has already lbeen Ioaned on -various foans ,to individual small fa,he11II1en? MR. SMALLWOOD : These are the small loans.

There is a co-opera­ tive loan fund too . MR. HOLLETT : I have heard some of the fishermen ex.press the opinion to me t-hat -they experience great difficulty in getting these loans . MR. SMALLWOOD : That was the

section especially under the Chairman­ ship of Mr. Baxter. Under the Chair­ manS'hip df Mr. Drover the procedure becomes easieL On motion 1440-02, 1440-03 carried . 1444: MR. HOLLETT : Mr. Chairman, I would like to know the nature of ex­ perimental grants? MR. SMALLWOOD: It is con­ nected with -the development of the mink industry . Members of ~he Com­ mittee who have 'travelled to Chapel Arm when the potheads were coming in and were processed will not need ,to be told that the operation is not carried on in the most acceptable form.

H is on the Trans°Canada Highway and the Highway to the Bonavista Peninsula, what will be tihc Trans-Canada Highway across the Island, and a .Jarge number of people drive down on the beach when the operations are proceeding, and I t-hink it will be generally agreed that some­ •thing is le"Ft .to be desired in the man­ ner in which this operation is carried out. Secondly ~here is at present a very serious loss of value. To 'begin with, all the bone structure of the whale is lost, and indeed frequently left in putrid form on ~he beach .

But what is more serious even than •that is the fact ~hat •the bone is lost and the large pa,rt of the flesh of each pothead is lost. In other parts of the world the prime source of food for mink is horseflesh, -the procedure is to put the whole of a carcass -nhrough a large grinder, grinding everything, the -flei.h, except the hide

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 935 of course, and -the hoofs, the rest is put through a grinder and ground so that all the meat and muscle and bone, everything, are all ground, and make excellent -food. B\l't in the case of the pothead whales only a relative­ ly smal1l part of flesh is cut and re­ moved and used and the carcass, the frame .in large is left frequently on the beaches. Now that is not only unsightly, it is a serious economic loss, especially when we can make ex,tensive use of it in ,the .feeding of mink. So that rwe propose to make ,great improve­ ments on ~he beach in Chapel Arm.

That is to say we wish to put in a grinder to grind up all the whale, the whole of the whale so that there will be no economic loss. We wish to put in electric saws to saw up these ani­ mals quickly, the parts that have to be sawn up. We wish to put in llhelters to keep the sun off the whales to pre­ vent the present ra;ther rapid decom­ poortion at times, depending, of course, on t!he sun and temperature.

We wis'h to put in electric hoists, electrica.Uy operated, to ,haul t-he great animals ashore on the beach where they can be handled, instead of hav­ ing men getting to their wai&ts in water t,rying to drag ~hem up. We want to have it done in the way it is done in modern packing houses, we want to install slips and slipways for tha;t purpooe, and then a conveyor srystem. :In other words, Mr. Chair­ man, we want to install this year at Chapel Arm as modern a system of handling these pothead wha,les as the Committee might care to imagine.

Now this will be a great thing for fishermen of Chapel Arm and t,hat area because in vhe first place it will ena,ble them for the first time in their Jives to operate in this whale industry with some comfort and effi­ ciency, and in the second place it should grea,tly augment their income by enabling them to sell ,~he whole carcass rather than merely such parts as they chop off, in extremely uncom­ fortable conditions, from the carcass.

I am rather proud though it is not only however a benefit to the fish­ ermen of Chapel Arm and that area; not only will i,t be much better for the general public passing along and driving down to see the operation going on, but it will be a good t'hing for the mink owners, because, let it be clearly understood, we must, accord­ ing to the old saying, use everything but the swill of •the ·hog. So in pot­ heads we must use everything but the swi11 so as to feed the maximum number of mink.

Although my hon­ ourable friend insists, for some reason that is quite incomprehensible to me, to be quite amused by this mink pro­ ject, i-t is big stuff and it is going to be big stuff and it is going to be the means of supporting hundreds of families. I don't see anything funny about that. So that this vote will be of benef.i t to ,the fishermen, to the miruk ranchers and to the general public. MR. HOLLETT: Now, Mr. Chair­ man I don't see any.thing funny a:bout it, except that there is always a pos­ sibility that it will require the pres­ ence of the Honourable the Premier. MR.

SMALLWOOD: I have been over there qui,te a bit. MR. HOLLETT: Yes. They only come into the land when the Hon­ ourable the Premier is present in this count,ry. So I am afraid we w-i11 have to see to it the Honourable the Prem­ ier does not go vacationing too much in Jamaica but rather at Dildo. I remember when a small boy there was a whaling factory at St. Lawrence,

936 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS about fourteen miles from where I lived, and, brother, when the wind came down from the southwest (four­ teen miles away, mind you) we could scarcely live in the community in wliich we lived. I don't know if it is anything like tha,t. MR. SMALLWOOD: I see it had its effect on the honourable gentle­ man, and he never got over it. The honourable gentleman, I know, wants to have a heyday over the next head­ ing. Let us complete this heading so we may have a clear field a£ter lunch. MR. HOLLETT : I know we would like to ,talk about it, as it is important. MR.

SMALLWOOD: Far be it from us to spoil the honour able gen­ tleman's fun. MR. HOLLETT: I have very lit­ tle to say about it, but I wou-ld like to rhink it over while ea,ting· my lunch. MR. SMALLWOOD: It may help the honourable gentlemen to digest his lunch. MJR. HOLLETT : Lt •is on my chest at the moment, perhaps if I got it off I would eat better. MR. SMALLWOOD : You had bet­ ter ea•t now. MR. HOLLETT: And leave it on my chest at the moment. On motion Depar,tment of Fisheries and Co-operatives ca,rried. On motion the Committee rose to r eport progress and ask leave to sit again. Mr.

Speaker returned to the Chair. (Mr. Courage, Deputy - Speaker) . MR. MORGAN: Mr. S•peaker, the Committee of Supply have considered the maHer to -them referred and have passed items 804 through 821 on Cur­ rent Account and Items 1440 through 1444 on Capital Account Expenditure. The Committee reports progress and asks leave to sit again presently. On motion report received, Com­ mittee ordered to sit again presently. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, I move the House recess until 3:00 of the dock this afternoon . On motion the House then recessed unti<l 3:00 of the clock this afternoon.

W,EDNES-DAY, Apri-1 20, 1955 AFTERNOON SESSION T'he House resumed at 3:00 of ,the olock. MR. SMALLWOOD: Mr. Speaker, 1 1 wish to move •that the House do not adjourn at 6:00 of the clock today. Motion carried. MR. SMNLDWOOD : Mr. Speaker, II wus·h to move ,~he House dO" no-t ad­ journ a-t Ir! :00 o'dock thus evening. Motion carried. MR. CUR'IlIS: Mr. Speaker, <I move the House go ,into ·Co1mniottee of the ,v:hole oin Sundry Bills, Nos. 6 through 32, in any order the Commi-ttee would wish, Mr. Speaker. Motion can,ied. Mr. Speaker left ,the Ohaiir: Mr. Cour<l{;e, Chairman of Com­ miHee of •tilie Whole : ,

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 937 Committee of tJhe Whole on Bill, "An Act Respecbing ,the ·Conditional Sale of Goods : MR. OHArIRJMAIN : Clauses 4 and 14 were allowed •to sta nd, [ bdieve. The other clauses ,were passed : MR. CUR TIS : •Mr. Chairman, on Clause 4, I have giving that matter some •bhought. ,I l'hink thirty days ought to lbe amp,le . On motion Clause 4 carried. MR. CUR TIS : Mr. Chairman, Clauses 14 was held up really without any reason, 1H ·is tied up ,w,i.th •the de­ finiition of !building material in (

d) w'hich ,I think clarifies Seot,ion 14. MR. BROWIN'E: .Section 14 was held up because it gives -the right of t'he seHer ,to come ~n a ·house and 'lake possession even rhough ,the articl e is a £ixture and •imlbedded in ,Vhe floors. This is a new departure from the prin­ dple and we ·are opposed to ,this, MR. CURTIIS: All rig/ht, we wiit•h­ draw •tihe BilL I move the Committee pass on to the nex-t BiH, report pro­ gress and ask leave to sit again on •tihis Bill. Motion to repor •t progress and ask leave to si•t aga,in carr.ied.: Commi-ttee of the Whole OTT Bill, "An Act Respecting ,Bulk Sales : " MR .

CHAIJJRMAN: Clause 13 was a}lowed to stand : MR. 1:-liIGGINS : That was a ma,t· ter, Mr. Ohaimnan, you ,will remember, whioh seemed to lbe going outside or taking away .from the other man his common law ,rights and limiting it in­ stead of s-ix years to six mon,t'hs. MR. CUR TIS : St11ike out

Section 13 - dt suits me. Motion carried : MR. BROWNE: Clause 14 now 'be­ comes Clause 13, someone must move tha•t? M1R. CUR T,IS : I make t'hat as part of tihe amendment. That t'his clause be deleoted and the nex,t clause amended ·to read Clause 13, On motion amendment carried. Mot,ion that the Commit-tee report ha:v.ing passed the Bill with some amendment , carried. MR. SM1ALILV17OOD: Mr. Chairman, 1 move now that we take No. 27 on ,tlhe Order Paper. The reason for that is that the Minister of Provincial Aoffaiirs and t•he SoJ.ioi-tor General is leaving later today lby air for Ottawa.

W1hile •he is present in the Committee we ought to de.cl wi•t1h ~he Elect-ion Aot. Commrttee of the Whole on Bill, "An Aot to Amend the Election Act : " Clause 1 read and oarried. Clause 2 read: 2. ISeotion 3 of The E•leotion Act, 1954, the A·ct No. 79 of 1954 ·is repealed and ,uhe following sulbsuituted vherefor: "3. Subject ,to •!'his Act, every man and every woman •is qual1ified •to vote at an eleotion in •LJhe proper polling division of an electoral district who (

a) is of ,the foll age of l!Wenty-one years; (ib) is a Canadian cit-izen or ouher British sulbject; (

c) has been ordd,narily resident in t•he province for twelve months ,immediately proceeding ,the day of election; and (

d) is ordinarily Tesident in •t'he elec­ toral district on ,tohe day of elec­ tion."

938 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS MR. BROWNE : Mr. Ohainman, how does that allfeot patients in in­ svi1u,tions, suoh as the \Sanatorrium? HON. M. P. MURRAY (Mfois,ter oif Provinoia1 .Mfairs) : This particular clause does not affeot -them ait a,JJ. Clause 2 carried. Clause 3 read Ml<l carried. Clause 4 read :

Section 29 of -uhe sa,jd Aict is amended lby deleting from su,b-section (I) ~he express•ion "sub -sections (5) and (6) of ~eotion 8" and suibstituting -theref·or t,he ex,pressfon "sulb-sections (4) and (5) of

Section 8." MR. MURRAY : Mr. Chairman, this is to ,take care of omissions last year wihen certain ciauses were deleted, interrelated, and the renumlb ering was not made. ·I,t •is ,purely routine. Clause 4 carried. MR. SMAL ILWOOD : Mr. Ohair­ man, JI suggest you call t:hese sections by sub-sections, then we will all know whalt sectfon we are ,ta,lking on, and then ·have them adopted one by one in that same order. MR. BROWiNE : IM.r. Chairman, I don' ,t •think ~ha,t is .feasilble. It is like a ·big long sentence really. No w wrhat 1! would like the .M,in:ister -to tell me is ,iliis: Tak-ing ,~he Dist1,iot df S,t.

John's East and West, where the 1bound,ny line ,is drawn !between ,tihe districts - there are five different d!istricts now where .formerly -there were two, and a revision of the voters will be an­ nounced, I don'•t know ilf rthere ,is any divisfon of -tihe voters. 'l dorn',t 1beJ.ieve anybodry took bhe ,tmuble 'lo go there - i,t does not seem reaEstic enough, no elect rion pending or anyt'hli,ng like ·that, no one came down here •to see ~he division of the lists of -voters . I know I did not, and -I s>hould 'have ·been in­ •teres,ted, and l don't ,believe anybody else did.

Now we are going ,to have ,five new d•istr icts. And a;fter trhese lists have been al,tered and prepared again you will have to have another revision of voters for the £ive districts, is Vha,t correct? MrR. 1\-I-UR,RAY: 'I'ha-t ,is so. MR. HOIJLETT : Mr. Ohairman, rwlho is the compiling olff.icer? MR. MURRAY : Mr. Short is com­ piling officer, once the writ of election is issued he becomes ~he elecvion of­ ficer. MR. HOLLETT ; Mr. Short wm make ail the necessary arrangements and changes, he is the only one who will have anything to do with it? MR . . MURRAY: Oh yes! MR. HOLLETT : It .is not defined 1here. MR.

MURRAY : J think you will find -the compHing officer referred to in ehe main Aoc. MR. BROWNE: No, Mr. Ohaiir­ man, -Vhere is nothing here albout a compildng offrcer. MR. MURRAY : I cannot pu-t my finger on i•t at -t,he moment, but [ am completely certa ,i,n that t'he compiling of£icer .is referred •to in ,the main Act. I w:ill have to look.

Section 5, sulb-clause 2 - "The Lieu­ tenarnt-'Governor may appoint a com­ pilring oFf-icer" -

Section 5 of the main Aot, 6Ulb-claus-e 2. MR. BROWNE : No . Tha,t is a compil -ing Qlf,Hcer for the province. Thaot is Mr. Slhort . MR. MURRAY : Yes.

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 939 MR. BROWNE : WeLl then, rwhat will the procedure lbe? ii ~vould 1'ike to know wha,t -vhe procedure is going to be in regard ,to the five districts. Wiill tlhere 1be a new revie,wdng justice aip­ rpoi,nted ,for ea'ch of ,these distriot-s, who will work under rhe dhect-ion of the compiling d£ficer, who rwould have to be pdndpal instruoter general to ea'ch of :these tiive reviewing justices? And t'hey will ,proceed ,to compile the List. They won't ,take a new list of voters, but ,take What has been done - MR.

MUR,RA Y : That empowers vhe compiling officer to use the infor­ mat•ion arlready availaible. MR. BRO"VNE : ii undemtand two districts are now included, Placentia a,n<l St. Mary's, ~he lis•ts are no,t in. MR. MURRAY : That is 11ight. MR. SMALLWOOD: We ~hall have to hurry }f there is ,to lbe an election this Spring. MR. BROWNE : ,1 don't t'hink it makes much diiflferem:e any,h01W, Wha-t is the posi:t·ion there if :t'he lists are not in? Have -they been taken? ·w,ha-t ,is the reason for ,tihe delay? Because i,f the lis,ts are not ,there ,trhis proceedure can­ not lbe foHowed -in that regard. MR.

MURRAY: The •compiling officer can use any -inform11tion he has availaib-le now or w.ill obta,in in it'he future. MR. BROWNE : I know they are not finished. MR. HOLLETT : ,I fail to see, Mr. Ohairman, how the compiling officer is going to decide whetiher John Jones is on ,the nighit or wrong side of tJhe street unless •he sends someone around to find, out. That position obtains in five or s•ix or a dozen rplaces here in St. John's rWhere •Dhere are new !boun­ dary lines, and the names are taken now according ,to certain streets, I take [rt - i\Vere •they taken under •rhe old Act? MR. MURRAY: Yes.

It is not as ditivircult as it may sound. '!'he new poUing divisions ~vm lbe created and put in in the ordinary manner lby posting J.ists on telephone poles. ;wR. HOLLETT : Give us enough ballot boxes. MR. BROWNE : Mr. Ohairman, what is t-he purpose of :bPinging in ~his seot-ion here - "For ,~he purpose of ·this

section the Lieutenant-Governor in Counoil may appo,int a compiling o£ficer." MR. MURRAY: Well, he •is given power, under the new clause whioh did not exist under the old Act. I suppose it is a matter of dra,ftsman­ ship. MR. HOLLETT : In ot'her rwords •he can appoint cmrupiJ:ing off.icers in every d-istrict i.f ·he :wants to? :MrR. BROWNIE : rr take iit, if it is necessary ,to send enumera-tors around, it <will lbe done? MR. MUR>RA Y : He can appoint a new compiling officer, designa,te or ap­ point new justices or rev.ie~v-ing justices, and may appoi11Jt suc'h enumerators as are necessary. Clause 5 carried. Clause 6 read and carried. Clause 7 read :

Section 56 of the said Act is amended lby repealing sulb-section (3) and subst-~tuting bherelfor the follow­ ing: " (3 Except wiL'h ,vhe a:pproval df the chief electoral ofificer, a rperson sha.]] not lbe appointed deputy returning of­ £icer, election clerk or poll clerk, who

940 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS is not quahfied as an elector in the electoral district where lhe ,is to act." MR. BROWNE : Mr. Chairman, t·ha,t does ·no-t g,ive him a vote, of course? MR. MURRAY: No, not at all. As I have ex,plained, occas•ion could arise where a young school teacher, say, is suitalble for an o£ficial and could be appointed. MR. HOIJLETT : 'l don't know how •tfuat .is ,going to apply to persons, foT -instance, dorwn in Labrador, and the returrning o£ficer finds himself short. lt is the eleotoral officer does k He wrn have ,to wire up here and gN instructions from !him? MR. MURRAY: Yes. MR.

BROWNE : That gives him - He could ,get. an American citizen to act. MR. MURRAY: Yes. H .is a,t the discretfon of Mr. Shmt. llt may lbe necessary to get a person who is not an elector, an American ciitizen or a person not qualif,ied ,to vote ,in the province who still may lbe well qual­ i/f.ied to act as a clerk in a po!ling b-Oorh. Clause 7 carried. Clause 8 read:

Section 65 of bhe said Act is re­ pealed and the following substhuted Vherefor: "65. -

(1) Except as othel1Wise pro­ vided in, and subject to his taking any oath required under bhis Act, a person qua,Liified to vote at an election whose name appears on ,t!he of£icial list of electors for a polling sta~ion shall on poUing day be permitted ,to vote -a!t such polling station, ,if he is Uhen resi­ dent in the polling div>ision for which t1hat polling station has been estab­ lished.

(2) A person ,who ,is quaHfied ,to vote in the eleotoral district in rwhicih an election is pending, and is on pol­ ling day resident in a polling division •t'herein may, sulbject ,to t1his Act and notw,i~hstanding that his name does not appear on the o!F_Bicial list oif elec­ tors for sud1 polling division, vote at -the appropriate polling stMion estab­ lished ,in that polling divisfon, if he ,takes and subscribes ,before ,the deputy return&ng off,icer the oath as in Form No-. 35 of the Schedule.

(3) The deputy returning 0 1F-6ker shall fi,]e in t'he manner prescrilbed iby the chief electoral officer every oath taken under sub-section (2) , and •foe oa,Uhs so taken and filed shall consti­ tute ,t,he supplemen:tary Hst of electors for .tlhe polling station concerned.

(4) For the pnrposes o!f this section, -the question whe~her a person is resi­ dent !in the prov,ince, or in an electoral district or in a polling di·vision thereof shall ibe determined in accordance with tlhe lfoHowing rules : (

i) T'he residence of a person shall 'be deemed to 1be that place t'hat has always !been, or that 'he has adopted as, the place of this ha'bi­ tation or home -to which, 'When­ ever albsent, he has ,uhe inten:tion of retum,ing. (ii) A person is deemed :to have only one place of ·residence -whi-dh can­ not lbe fos•t unless another is gained and a change of residence occurs rwhere a person goes to anot'her pla·ce ~v,ith the ,intention of rema,ining t'here. (iii) A person shall not lbe deemed ,to have ga,ined a residence •in -bhe province, or in an electoral dis - trict ,uhereoif, if that person has

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 941 come into the province for tem­ porary purposes only, ,with tihe inten~ion of ma'kJing the province, and some place •in die electoral district his home. (iv) A member of Her Majesty's Forces stationed ·in -t'he province shaU not be deemed to he resi­ dent •therein or in an eleotoral district or a •polling division thereof unless du11ing the twelve months ,immedfa.tely ,preced~ng ~he date -t'hat he !became a mem­ ber of Her Majesty's Force ,he was a resident in ~he province.

(5) Where a ,poUing station for an electoral district has been estalblished outside of that electoral district under

Section 52, any elector w,ho is entitled to vote in any part of -the electoral distPict !for ,which i-t ,was es,tabJ.ished may vote at such polling station for t'he candidate or nurruber of candida ,tes authorized lby law to lbe elected to re­ present such electoral district.

(6) An elector s·hall not vote in more than one electoral district nor more -than once in any electoral dis­ trict, lbut every elector may vote for as many candidates as are authoPized by la:w to be elected for ,t'he electoral district cin respect of w'hioh he votes.

(7) Every ,person who· a.t an election votes in more than one electoral dis­ trict or more than once -in any electoral district is guilty of an dffence." MR. BROWNE : suppose t.ha,t could 'be simplified. If he voted more than once 'he is guilty of an offence. a wonder ,i1f the Minister would rruintl glancing a,t su!b-clause 2 t•here? MR. MURRAY : Actually this re­ enacts sub-clause 2. That is put in for the punpose df clariHca-tion. The l'Ule is la•id down in sub-clause ('

I) that a person shall only vote in a pol- ling division in ,which 'he ,is resident. T'ha,t is tihe ru·le. Now an except-ion to Vhe rule is that a person may be resident in an electoral district - 'l gave an exampQe the otiher day - Sup­ pose a man belonging to· Bay Bulls, registered in the polling division ,in Bay Bulls but residing in Fermeuse o,n polling day, can vote in tJhe Fenneuse palling division if he goes on the mp­ plementary list. MR. BROW,l\lE : Suppose he is working a,t -the birch plant and lives at Wi•tless Bay, can he vote at Bay Bulls? MR. MURRAY: No. He must go home to vote.

He must vote in t•he polling division in which he is regis­ tered. Clause 8 carried. Clause 9 read : 9. Sect•ion 74 of the said Act is amended (

a) lby delet •ing the word "·t•hree" in paragraph (

f) of sU!b-section (1) and su:bsti,tuoing ~herefor ·~he word "tiwo;" and (b- ,by deleting the words "each can­ didate" appearing in sulb-section (7) immediately after the words "ohe 'ballot pa.pers marked for" and sulbstkuting the1't'lfor t,he wo-rds "t·he same cand•i­ da,te or candidates." MR. MURRAY: That is pllit in, Mr. Ohairm~n, at the s11gge~tfon of Mr. Short - "Two witnesses shall !be suf­ ficient." And the other amendment •is because of the creation of two-man distr-icts, and ·the Act has ,to lbe changed accordingly. ,r,t is a question of keep­ ing track of tihe ba'1lot papers. MR. BROWNE : As it reads now all t'he ballot papers shall be counted and a record kept of the numlber of

942 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS votes for each candida ,te. That is all right as far as the candida.t-es are con­ cerned . MR. MURRAY : Tihe ballot pap er is not .for eaoh !but for bo,th candidalt•es. Lt •is a question of keeping ,track of the 1ballots really. MR . BROWNE : How can you separate them then . T'1llis speaks df ~he same candidate or cand'ida,tes. MR. MURRAY : It is ~he !ballot papers we are talking albornt. They have ,to lbe accounted for aif,ter the votes are counted and re.turned. MR. BROWINE : Then tihe proce­ dure does not follow any more.

T,he !ballot ,paiper marked for each candi ­ uate shaLi lbe put in a separa ,te en­ velope? MR. MURRAY: They cannot do H, therefore the clause has !been changed. .MR. BROWNE : How are you go ­ ing to improve i.t ·by su:bstituting the words " the same candtidate or candi­ da,tes?" MR. ,MURRAY: One ballot paper w111 ·cover two candtida-tes. MR. BROWNE : -In other words if a voter votes for only one olf the can­ didates you put that ,in a separa,te en­ velope. If a person vote a plumper - MR. MURRAY: No. MR. BROWNE : W ·hy not then put all rhe ballot papers marked properly in an envelope.

Why ihr>ing in ~he same candidate or candidates? W,hat d= ·Vhat mean? M.R. -MURoR,AY: 11,t really means the va'lid 1baillot .papers s,hould be put in an envelope. As it stands now it'he ballot pa,per mark ed .for each candi­ da,te s'hal.l ,be ,put in ea-ch separate en- velope, while a nwo·-man ballot paper - MR. BROW.NE : All you do now with 'Dhe vaHd lballot paper is to put ,it in an envelope. MR. CUR T 'IS : Suppose Wro of you gen~lemen over there ~vere candidaites and sometbody voted a plumpen·, my honouralble friends 'have eaoh one en­ velope .for ,his name. MR.

BROWNE : lt says that t1hey are not going w do that. MR. MURRAY: il have not ~hought ,i,t out really - ,In a ,t,wo-man dtistrict ,there would be "A", ''B'', "C", "D". iN= ,fue :ballot marked for "A" and "B" would lbe quite simple, and would go in one envelope as would :the !ballot marked for "C" and "D" . But then you !have the comlbinations. Lt ~vould mean a whol e group of envelopes. MR. BROWNE : Wiha-t you reaHy mean is Vhat you just put the valid ballots in one envelope. II suggest thait be re-drafted there. MR. MURRAY : 11 would like to have ~ime ,to reconsider it really. I wonder ,i.f it could stand over.

On mo~ion Seotion 9 ~land .

Section 10: MR. BROWNE : W,ha,t is the rea­ son ,for ~hat 1being ,taken ou,t? MR. MURRAY: T'ha •t, 11 ,think, was done on .~he recommendation of ,uhe compiling dfficer. Lt is purely routine, I think. He prefened to have t'he sulb­ lis,ts and ~vhatever other forms to be made in one ,booth. The amendment merely means ,they are aU pu,t ,in one envelope. MR. BROWNE: Mr. Ohairman, we ha,ve to be explicit, not :put ~hat .there a:nd make no men~ion of it. .It ,is con-

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 943 ceivalble some deputy returning offiicer would say : "What have 11 to send - I don',t see any,thing here aibout sulb­ lists of eleotors. MR. MURRAY: iMr. Sh01,t who has !had an infinite amount of eXJperience on these matters - MR. BROWNE : 11 just pass it along. '\,Ve .got to make sure ---Js some­ body going to tear out ~hat sheet, and say, II have lbeen a deputy returning oEficer :here !for ,the last three or four elections, as the case may lbe, and rwe a1'ways got instruction for sulb-Hsts. 'It ,is not there now. There are no in­ strucbions. MR.

MURRAY: (f) ,is deleted but the sense of it is put in (g) . MR. BROWNE : No, 'Mr. Chair­ man, H II may respeotfully point out. You 'have to renuimlber the sulb-section. ,MR . .MURRAY: Oh yes. MR. BROWNE : That does not follow automatically. Or will you ;re­ numlber them now, because if (

f) is dropped there will lbe no (f) . MR. MURRAY : (

g) then becomes (f). MR. BROWNE : I ,take ,it when tlhey pPint this ,Act of last year and !!his Bi,l! -t,hey wi11 1be consoJ,ida,ted? MR. MURRAY : 'I ,imagine so. 'Jlhese things are looked after in the Attorney General's office. MR. OHAIRM.A1N : No honour­ aible member may cross ,the House wit!h his ,ha,t on. iHe may rwear a 'hat in his place 'but must not cross the House with his hat on. On motion Clause IO carried. Cl11use 11 : MR. 'BROWiNE: iNow the quaLifica- tion for a voter fa a Canadiian ci:tizen or ofher BPitish sulbject. Now if he ,is not a Oanadian citizen is Vhere another form for him? MR.

MURRAY: Yes, under the Act the electoral officer 1has the power to revise the form. ,MR. BROWNE : These are the only ones. Will he lbe ma1king other forms to deal with 'B111tish sulbjects? MR. MURR:A Y : iHe has power to do tha,t. MR. BROWNE : Will he do it? MR. MURRAY : I ,imagine he will. ii ,vhJink we can depend on Mr. Short for 'this. MR. 'BROWNE: WiH ,the Minister drnw it to his attention. 'It onily re­ fers to British sulbjects and Canadian dtizens. MR. MUR,RAY: 11 IWlill. Clause H carried. Clause 12: MR.

MURRAY: The ,reason for 'bhat ,is to rait,i.£y anything the compiling oBfiicer has already done in 'the way of taking up electoral lists and ,tha:t sort of thing. Ratifying anything the com­ piling o~ficer may ,have done up to this date in the rway O'f takiing up eleotors lists. MR. BROWNE : Why is it neces­ sary ,to do ,Dhat? What he did was under ,the Act. Why do you have to bring ,in this raDification now? MR. MURRAY: It is because of ~he new redistribution. Anything vhat has 1been done. MR. 1BROWNE : Surely he has not under,taken anything without dnstru­ tions there was ,to ibe a 'Change.

944 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS MR. MURRAY: Bu,t before he 'had any no,ti.fication of change the Hst of electors rwas ,ta,ken up. Tlhis rati­ fies anytruing he has done in the or­ dinary course of 1business. I don't see what harm i-t does. MR. HOLLETT : Anything he !has done under ·~he old Act now would not ,be proper under •this? MR. MURRAY : The Act we passed las·t year, anything 'he did under rhat is ra.tilfied lby this 'present amendment. MR. HOLLETT : What he did un­ der the old Act is not in accordance with the new set-up for taking a list of electors. M.R.

MURRAY: No, because he did not know of these changes in boundar,ies, so this ,is to rati,fy ~vhat he did do. iH ,would be a completely useless expedi ,tu~·e to compel the compiling officer to go out and take a new list when he •has just completed the list. MR. HOLLETT : IH does not ra,ri:fy il 1ml makes iL illegal il.t;<.:0,nling· Lo ~his. MR. MURRAY: All ,these amend­ ments empower ,the ·comipiling officer to do so and so. :He is empowered to do that !because the Act ,is deemed to come into effect on the 22nd of June fas•t. MR. BROWNE : Mr.

Ohai11man, just one question - '1\/'here does the officer in charge get ,rhe power to draft new a1£fidavits such as these? MR. MURRAY : The power of the compi-ling olf.ficer 'to change forms. N is in the main Act here somewhere. MR. CUR Tl~S : Now bhe only sec­ ~ion outstand-ing -is 9 tb) . Motion tha:t the 'Commi-ttee report progress and a.I< leave ,to s•it again Carried. Committee of the Whole on Bill, "An Aot Further to Amend t,he ·Educa­ tion Act:" Clause 1 read and carried. Clause 2 read: 2. Sulbsection ('

l) of

Section 2 of 'Dhe Educa-tion Act, cha•pter 101 of T ,he Revised Statutes of Newfoundland, 1952, ,is amended by deleting para­ graiphs (

a) and tb) and surbsti,tuting therefor the follo.wing : " (a) "Educational District" or "Dh­ trict" : - To provide for each religious denomination organized for educa·~ion­ al puI'poses under this Act, t'he ad­ ministration of l'ulblic Schools devoted to ~

i) the teaching of designated 'higher or lower grades; (ii) -the :prov,ision of general elmen­ tary or secondary education; or (ii•

i) any or all of the purposes re­ ferred ,to in sulb-paragmphs (

i) and (ii). the province shall for each such re­ J.igious denomination be divided into a number of areas of concenient di­ mensions to be knowns as "Educa­ tional Distriicts," or :briefly as "Dis­ -tr-icts." (b) "Board Qlf Education" or Board:" - [n each District, ~he or­ ganizavion and administ ,ration of Pub­ lic Sdhools devoted to (i) 1the teaching of des•ignated higher or lorwer grades; (ii) ,the provision o,£ general elemen­ tary or secondary education; or (iii) any or all of ehe purposes re­ •ferred to in su'b-paragra'[>'hs (

i) and (iJi),

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 945 shall lbe under ,the management of a numlber of persons appointed in accordance wi,th this Act to be known collectively as t,he "Board of Educa­ tion" for ~ha,t 0-istrict, or 'bI1iefly as ,the H 1Board." M•R. BROWNE : Mr. Ohai11man, I wonder ilf •the 'Minister could tell us what ,the difference -is t'here? HON. J. R. CHALKER (Minister of Educa ,tion) : iln the oniginal Act ~he po,wer of boards and districts is de­ signated - in the new amendment ,vhey can include Regional High Schools. MR. BROWNE : Is the

section mudh the same as this? MR. OHALKER : With the inclu­ sion of this amendment. MR. HOI.JLETT : Boards of Educa­ tion ,were set up in various settlements heretofore? MR. OHALKF,R : And s·till are. T,hey want to 'have this po,wer now -included in the Aot to cover Regional High Schools. They used it, 'but they never had -rt in the Act. All the !boards acted for Koinderganen u:p to Grade X1I. They now want it ,legaHzed. Clause 2 ca,rried. Cl-ause 3 read:

Section 3 of the said Act is amended 1by rnpealing paragraph (

a) and sulbstituting ,therefor ,the follow­ ing: " (

a) For ,tlhe purpose of organizing and administening ,P,ublic Schools de­ voted to (-i) ,t!he teaching of designa·ted Ji<igher or lower grades; (ii) •t'he prov·ision of general elemen­ tary or secondary education; or (iii) ,any or all of the puI1poses re­ ferred •to in sub-paragra,phs (

i) and (ii) ~he unit area of control and manage­ ment shall be a D,is,triot and ,the ,authority therein shall be ~he proper Boa·rd of EducMion, and sulbject to paragmph (lb) the boundaries of the several districts shall ibe those set fortlh •in

Schedule A of T•he Educa­ tion Aot, 1927, and the amendments to

Schedule A provided !from time to ,time under ,rhat Act, or •Vhis Act." MR. HOLLETT : Mr. GhaiI1man, does not ,bhat cut out the Boards of Education in the various settlements? MR. CHALKER : No. MR. BROWNE : The

section is somewha,t diBferent Jirom -the old sec­ tion - Thiis is for ,rhe punpose of gen­ eral elemernta •ry education , that is all. MR. GHA'LKER : That is right. MR. HEFFER TON : ,H ,refers par­ tkularly to :Regional High Schools, which only start at Grade ,IX. Clause 3 carried : Clause 4 read : 4. Sections 4 and 5 of -the said Act are repealed ,and •t,he following su1b­ sti,tuted t'herefore : "4.- (

I) Sulbject lo Seot-ion 5, ithe Lieutenant-G-Overnor in Council shall in ·eaoh district appoint, on ,~he recom­ mendat,ion of ·t•he pr<~per Superinten­ dent, a Board of Education consis-t,ing of five or more persons of the district and representaJtive of the most import­ ant :parts of •the distr -ict, one df ~vhom slhall lbe •the senior clergyman or other officer of ·the denomination of •the dJistI1ict, ibuit the Lieutenant-Governor in Council may, upon the recommen­ dation of ,the Superin ·tendent or Superintendents representing such de-

946 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS nomina~ions, appoint as mem1bers of any su{Jh Board of Education persons oDher than those of ~he religious de­ nomination of ,the Board.

(2) One lay memlber df ,t,he Board appointed under sutb-sect-ion (

I) s•hal\ retire annually, <but shall 'be eligible for re-appointmernt and retirements shaU be in order of seniori ,ty of ap­ pointmernt.

(3) For bhc transaction of business a majori •ty of the mem•bers of a Board appointed under sulb-sectfon (1) shall be a quorum. 5.-

(1) There is 'her(jby cstalblishcd a Board df Educa,tion for the Chuirch of England Educational Distnict of St. John's, ,consisting of any numlber of mernlbers au,thorized 'by ~he constitution of ~e Boa,rd which shall <be a corpora­ tion to be known as "'Dhe Board of Directors for 1Dhe Ohurch of England Schools in St. John's."

(2) The mernJbers of the Board es­ taJbHshed ·by su:b-section ( 1) shall be a,ppoin•ted by the Lieutenant-Governor in Council, on rhc ,recommendation of the proper Supenintendent and in ac­ cordance ,w.ibh bhe constitu it,ion of the Boa.rd.

(3) The const·itut-ion of the Board established by suJb sect•ion (

I) shall, subject •to sulb-section (2) provide for ,~he a,ppointment of ,the original mem· bers df the Board, ·Dhe rep1a,cement of memJbers, and the appointment and replacement of the Executive of the Board, and the consti ,Lu•tion shaU [be sulbject ,Lu Vlie approval of the Educa­ tion Committee df the Synod of the Churdh df England.

(4) The Board esta,blis,hed lby suib­ secDion (

I) may subject to ,its consti ­ tution ma:ke 1bye-laws for the manage­ ment of Hs ,property and effects and of its a:l!fairs and business, ,~he entering into agreements and conitracts iwit'h any co11poration, municipality or person, rhe calling of meetings, ·t1he detennina• tion o.f a quorum ait meetings and in general relating to all rhings ,that may be necessary for ca,rry,ing out the db­ jeots of bhe Board and for the exercise of any of the power'S inicidental thereto." MR. BROWNE: Mr. Ohairman, i wond er •would •the Minister ,tell me - '\Suibjeot ,to

Section 5, t'he Lieu,tenant­ Gover,nor 1in Council shall in eat:h dis­ •trict ap.point, on tlhe recommendation of t:he proper Superintendent, a Board of Education consisting of five or more persons of the same religious denomi­ ua.tion as 1the residents of t,he district and ,representative of ,the most import­ •ant parts of the dist!ri,ot, one df whom shall lbe bhe senior clergyman or other o££i.cer Otf the denomination of the district, but bhe Lieutenant-Gove,rnor ~n Oouncil may, upon the recommen­ daition of ,the Superintendent or Super- 1intendents representing su,ch denomi­ nations, appoint as memlbers of any sm,h BoaTd of Education persons other ~han those of the religious denomina­ ,tfon of the Board," MR.

SMALLWOOD : Tha:t 1is to cover amalgamated schools. MR. BRO'WINE: .H "shall" it says. in each distriot. MR. 8MAI.;LWOOD: Yes, do one or rhe obher. MR. BROWNE : What is meant by district there? MR. SMALLWOOD : The sohool district. Clause 4 carried. ,Clauses 5 through 8 read and car­ ried. Clause 9 :

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS 947 9. The sa•id Aot -is fur.t'her amended 'by adding immediately ,a'fter Seoti<Yn 50 as

Section 51 the following : "51.-

(1) Every person rwiho operates a school for ithe educ