British Columbia Hansard — Tuesday, May 17, 2011

H0517pm-04

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session, 39th Parliament official rePort of Debates of the Legis Lative a ssemb Ly (hansarD) the honourable bill bari Soff, SPeaker iSSn 0709-1281 Tuesday, May 17, 2011 Afternoon Sitting Volume 22, Number 4

Pro Vince of britiS h colu Mbia (entered c onfederation July 20, 1871) lieutenant -Go Vernor h is h onour the h onourable Steven l.

Point, obc Third Session, 39th Parliament SPeaker of the leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y h onourable bill barisoff eXecutiVe council Premier and President of the executive c ouncil .............................................................................................................. h on. c hristy c lark Deputy Premier and Minister of finance ............................................................................................................................h on. k evin f alcon Minister of a boriginal r elations and r econciliation ...........................................................................................................h on.

Mary Polak Minister of a dvanced e ducation .................................................................................................................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto Minister of a griculture ........................................................................................................................................................... h on.

Don Mcr ae a ttorney General ........................................................................................................................................................... h on. barry Penner, Qc Minister of c hildren and f amily Development ................................................................................................................ h on.

Mary Mcn eil Minister of c ommunity, Sport and cultural Development .................................................................................................. h on. ida c hong Minister of e ducation .........................................................................................................................................................h on.

George a bbott Minister of energy and Mines and Minister r esponsible for h ousing.........................................................................h on. r ich c oleman Minister of environment ....................................................................................................................................................h on. Dr. t erry l ake Minister of f orests, l ands and n atural r esource o perations......................................................................................h on.

Steve Thomson Minister of h ealth .................................................................................................................................................... h on. Michael de Jong, Qc Minister of Jobs, t ourism and innovation ................................................................................................................................... h on. Pat bell Minister of l abour, citizens' Services and o pen Government .............................................................................. h on.

Stephanie c adieux Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General .................................................................................................................h on.

Shirley bond Minister of Social Development and Minister r esponsible for Multiculturalism ............................................................ h on. h arry bloy Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure ................................................................................................................h on. blair l ekstrom leGiS latiVe a SSeMbl Y l eader of the official o pposition ......................................................................................................................................................a drian Dix Deputy Speaker .................................................................................................................................................................................... l inda r eid a ssistant Deputy Speaker ..................................................................................................................................................................Dawn black Deputy c hair, c ommittee of the Whole ...................................................................................................................................Douglas h orne c lerk of the l egislative a ssembly...................................................................................................................e.

George MacMinn, obc, Q c c lerk a ssistant ..................................................................................................................................................................................r obert Vaive c lerk a ssistant and l aw c lerk................................................................................................................................................. ian D. izard, Qc c lerk a ssistant and c lerk of c ommittees ............................................................................................................... craig h.

James (on leave) c lerk a ssistant and a cting c lerk of c ommittees ................................................................................................................. k ate r yan-l loyd Sergeant-at-a rms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary l enz

alP habetical liS t of MeMberS a bbott, h on. George (l) ........................................................................ Shuswap a ustin, r obin (nDP) ................................................................................ Skeena bains, h arry (nDP) ....................................................................Surrey-n ewton barisoff, h on. bill (l) ............................................................................Penticton barnett, Donna (l) ................................................................ c ariboo-c hilcotin bell, h on.

Pat (l) ..................................................... Prince George–Mackenzie bennett, bill (l) .............................................................................k ootenay e ast black, Dawn (nDP) ................................................................n ew Westminster black, iain (l) .............................................................. Port Moody–c oquitlam bloy, h on. h arry (l) ............................................................burnaby-l ougheed bond, h on.

Shirley (l) ...........................................Prince George–Valemount brar, Jagrup (nDP) ................................................................ Surrey-fleetwood c adieux, h on. Stephanie (l) ................................................Surrey-Panorama c antelon, r on (l) ..............................................................

Parksville-Qualicum c handra h erbert, Spencer (nDP) ................................Vancouver–West end c hong, h on. ida (l) ..................................................... o ak bay–Gordon h ead c houhan, r aj (nDP) ........................................................... burnaby-e dmonds c oell, Murray (l) ..............................................Saanich n orth and the islands c oleman, h on. r ich (l) ........................................... f ort l angley–a ldergrove c onroy, katrine (nDP) .............................................................. k ootenay West c oons, Gary (nDP) .........................................................................n orth c oast c orrigan, k athy (nDP) ..................................................... burnaby–Deer l ake Dalton, Marc (l) ..............................................................

Maple r idge–Mission de Jong, h on. Michael, Qc (l) .............................................. a bbotsford West Dix, a drian (nDP) ............................................................Vancouver-kingsway Donaldson, Doug (nDP) ......................................................................... Stikine e lmore, Mable (nDP) ................................................... Vancouver-kensington f alcon, h on. k evin (l) ..........................................................Surrey-c loverdale f arnworth, Mike (nDP) ............................................................

Port c oquitlam fleming, r ob (nDP) .......................................................... Victoria–Swan l ake f oster, eric (l) .......................................................................Vernon-Monashee f raser, Scott (nDP) ............................................................a lberni–Pacific r im Gentner, Guy (nDP) .........................................................................Delta n orth h ammell, Sue (nDP) .................................................... Surrey–Green t imbers h ansen, c olin (l) ............................................................

Vancouver-Quilchena h awes, r andy (l) ............................................................... a bbotsford-Mission h ayer, Dave S. (l) .................................................................... Surrey-t ynehead h eed, k ash (l) ................................................................ Vancouver-fraserview h ogg, Gordon (l) ............................................................... Surrey–White r ock h organ, John (nDP) .......................................................................

Juan de f uca h orne, Douglas (l) ..............................................c oquitlam–b urke Mountain h oward, r ob (l) .....................................................................r ichmond c entre h untington, Vicki (ind.) ..................................................................Delta South James, c arole (nDP) .........................................................Victoria–b eacon h ill k aragianis, Maurine (nDP) ........................................e squimalt–r oyal r oads k rog, l eonard (nDP) ........................................................................... n anaimo k rueger, kevin (l) ............................................... k amloops–South Thompson kwan, Jenny Wai ching (nDP) ...........................

Vancouver–Mount Pleasant l ake, h on. Dr. t erry (l) .....................................k amloops–n orth Thompson l ali, h arry (nDP) ..........................................................................f raser-n icola l ee, r ichard t . (l) .......................................................................burnaby n orth l ekstrom, h on. blair (l) .......................................................

Peace r iver South l es, John (l) .........................................................................................c hilliwack l etnick, n orm (l) ........................................................k elowna–l ake c ountry MacDiarmid, Dr. Margaret (l) ......................................... Vancouver-fairview Macdonald, n orm (nDP) ....................................c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke Mcintyre, Joan (l) ..................................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Mcn eil, h on. Mary (l) .................................................Vancouver–f alse creek Mcr ae, h on.

Don (l) ................................................................... c omox Valley Mungall, Michelle (nDP) ..........................................................n elson-creston Penner, hon. barry, Qc (l) ....................................................c hilliwack-h ope Pimm, Pat (l) ..........................................................................Peace r iver n orth Polak, h on.

Mary (l) ...............................................................................l angley Popham, l ana (nDP) ...................................................................Saanich South r alston, bruce (nDP) ................................................................

Surrey-Whalley r eid, l inda (l) .............................................................................r ichmond e ast r outley, bill (nDP) .................................................................. c owichan Valley r outley, Doug (nDP) ............................................n anaimo–n orth c owichan r ustad, John (l) ........................................................................... n echako l akes Sather, Michael (nDP) ......................................... Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows Simons, n icholas (nDP) ...................................

Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast Simpson, bob (ind.) .....................................................................c ariboo n orth Simpson, Shane (nDP) .....................................................Vancouver-hastings Slater, John (l) ..............................................................boundary-Similkameen Stewart, ben (l) ..................................................................... Westside-kelowna Stilwell, Dr. Moira (l) ......................................................... Vancouver-l angara Sultan, r alph (l) .....................................................

West Vancouver–capilano Thomson, hon.

Steve (l) ........................................................k elowna-Mission Thorne, Diane (nDP) .................................................c oquitlam-Maillardville Thornthwaite, Jane (l) .......................................... n orth Vancouver–Seymour t revena, c laire (nDP) .................................................................... n orth island van Dongen, John (l) .............................................................a bbotsford South Y amamoto, hon. n aomi (l) ................................. n orth Vancouver–l onsdale Y ap, John (l) .......................................................................r ichmond-Steveston Vacant ...............................................................................Vancouver–Point Grey liS t of MeMberS bY riD in G a bbotsford-Mission .......................................................................r andy h awes a bbotsford South .....................................................................John van Dongen a bbotsford West ......................................................h on.

Michael de Jong, Qc a lberni–Pacific r im ..........................................................................

Scott f raser boundary-Similkameen .....................................................................John Slater burnaby–Deer l ake ................................................................... k athy c orrigan burnaby-e dmonds ......................................................................... r aj c houhan burnaby-l ougheed ...................................................................h on. h arry bloy burnaby n orth .............................................................................. r ichard t . l ee c ariboo-c hilcotin ........................................................................Donna barnett c ariboo n orth ................................................................................ bob Simpson c hilliwack ...............................................................................................

John l es c hilliwack-h ope .......................................................... h on. barry Penner, Qc c olumbia r iver–r evelstoke .................................................. n orm Macdonald c omox Valley...........................................................................h on. Don Mcr ae c oquitlam–b urke Mountain .....................................................Douglas h orne c oquitlam-Maillardville...............................................................

Diane Thorne c owichan Valley ................................................................................ bill r outley Delta n orth ......................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ...............................................................................Vicki h untington e squimalt–r oyal r oads .....................................................Maurine k aragianis f ort l angley–a ldergrove ...................................................h on. r ich c oleman f raser-n icola........................................................................................ h arry l ali Juan de f uca .....................................................................................John h organ k amloops–n orth Thompson ............................................ h on.

Dr. t erry l ake k amloops–South Thompson ...................................................... k evin k rueger k elowna–l ake c ountry ...............................................................n orm l etnick k elowna-Mission .............................................................. h on.

Steve Thomson k ootenay e ast ....................................................................................bill bennett k ootenay West ............................................................................ k atrine c onroy l angley.......................................................................................h on. Mary Polak Maple r idge–Mission .....................................................................

Marc Dalton Maple r idge–Pitt Meadows ........................................................Michael Sather n anaimo ......................................................................................... l eonard k rog n anaimo–n orth c owichan ......................................................... Doug r outley n echako l akes ..................................................................................

John r ustad n elson-creston ........................................................................Michelle Mungall n ew Westminster ..............................................................................Dawn black n orth c oast....................................................................................... Gary c oons n orth island .................................................................................. c laire t revena n orth Vancouver–l onsdale ........................................h on. n aomi Y amamoto n orth Vancouver–Seymour .................................................

Jane Thornthwaite o ak bay–Gordon h ead ............................................................ h on. ida c hong Parksville-Qualicum ..................................................................... r on c antelon Peace r iver n orth ................................................................................Pat Pimm Peace r iver South ...............................................................h on. blair l ekstrom Penticton................................................................................... h on. bill barisoff Port c oquitlam ..........................................................................Mike f arnworth Port Moody–c oquitlam ...................................................................... iain black Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast ................................................. n icholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie .............................................................h on.

Pat bell Prince George–Valemount ...................................................h on. Shirley bond r ichmond c entre ............................................................................ r ob h oward r ichmond e ast ................................................................................... l inda r eid r ichmond-Steveston ..............................................................................John Y ap Saanich n orth and the islands .....................................................

Murray c oell Saanich South ................................................................................ l ana Popham Shuswap ...............................................................................h on.

George a bbott Skeena .............................................................................................. r obin a ustin Stikine ........................................................................................Doug Donaldson Surrey-c loverdale .................................................................h on. k evin f alcon Surrey-fleetwood ...............................................................................Jagrup brar Surrey–Green t imbers ..................................................................Sue h ammell Surrey-n ewton ................................................................................. h arry b ains Surrey-Panorama ........................................................ h on.

Stephanie c adieux Surrey-t ynehead ........................................................................... Dave S. h ayer Surrey-Whalley.............................................................................. bruce r alston Surrey–White r ock ....................................................................... Gordon h ogg Vancouver-fairview ................................................ Dr. Margaret MacDiarmid Vancouver–f alse creek ........................................................ h on.

Mary Mcn eil Vancouver-fraserview ........................................................................k ash h eed Vancouver-hastings ....................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-kensington .................................................................Mable e lmore Vancouver-kingsway..........................................................................a drian Dix Vancouver-l angara .................................................................Dr.

Moira Stilwell Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ..........................................Jenny Wai ching kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ...............................................................................Vacant Vancouver-Quilchena ................................................................... c olin h ansen Vancouver–West end ...............................................Spencer c handra h erbert Vernon-Monashee ...............................................................................eric f oster Victoria–b eacon h ill .......................................................................c arole James Victoria–Swan l ake.........................................................................r ob fleming West Vancouver–capilano ............................................................. r alph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ........................................................

Joan Mcintyre Westside-kelowna .............................................................................ben Stewart Party Standings: l iberal 48; n ew Democratic 34; independent 2; Vacant 1

CONTENTS t uesday, May 17, 2011 a fternoon Sitting Page Routine Business introductions by Members ..................................................................................................................................................... 7093 Statements ................................................................................................................................................................................ 7093 Dorothy Parvaz D.

Donaldson introductions by Members ..................................................................................................................................................... 7093 Statements ................................................................................................................................................................................ 7094 international Day a gainst h omophobia S. c handra h erbert introductions by Members ..................................................................................................................................................... 7094 t abling Documents ................................................................................................................................................................. 7094 e lections b.c., service plan, 2011-12 introduction and first r eading of bills ................................................................................................................................ 7094 bill 12 — Police (i ndependent investigations office) a mendment a ct, 2011 h on.

S. bond Statements (Standing order 25b) ......................................................................................................................................... 7095 r ole of Prince r upert in a sia-Pacific gateway G. c oons international Day a gainst h omophobia M. Stilwell Queen a lexandra e lementary School J. kwan Girl Guides' c amp o lave on Sunshine c oast l. r eid c ystic fibrosis awareness and fundraising walk S. Simpson n ational r oad Safety Week and Sea to Sky highway improvements J.

Mcintyre oral Questions ......................................................................................................................................................................... 7097 impact of log export policy on forest industry n. Macdonal d h on. S. Thomson b. r outley D. r outley Government policies on foreign trade zones G. Gentner h on. b. l ekstrom Potential use of Delta lands for foreign trade zone V . huntington h on. b. l ekstrom Services for developmentally disabled persons k. c orrigan h on. h. b loy n. Simon s M. f arnworth

Orders of the Day c ommittee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 7102 e stimates: Ministry of e ducation (continued) r . a ustin h on. G. a bbott c. t revena S. f raser l. Popha m G. Gentner S.

Simpson M. e lmore Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room c ommittee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 7128 e stimates: Ministry of f orests, l ands and n atural r esource o perations (continued) h on. S. Thomson n. Macdonal d S. c handra h erbert b. r outley b. Simpson M. Sather c. t revena e stimates: o ther a ppropriations

7093 tueSD a Y , MaY 17, 2011 The h ouse met at 1:33 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Introductions by Members C. James: i have visiting me today in the gallery a longtime friend, a former colleague, a former educa - tor and school principal in the Victoria school district a lthough he is retired now, he has continued his work, his passion for education for children and for math - ematics. h e's an author of many books and provides workshops. Would the h ouse please welcome t revor c alkins. D.

Hayer: Joining us in the gallery are six excep - tional students from kwantlen Park Secondary School in Surrey. These students are Peter Singh, Jasmin r ing, Pardeep birak, o scar l iang, l aura Wilkinson and a mie Johnson. They are accompanied by teacher Stuart Wohlgemuth. They are the touring the l egislature and Victoria. They are the finalists and the winners in the Surrey r otary c lub's citizenship development program. e ach of them had to write a short speech about what being a c anadian citizen means to them.

This competi - tion and trip is sponsored by the r otary c lub of Surrey. i have welcomed them for the last ten years. They'll tour, and they'll get a chance to meet with Mla s and minis- ters on how the parliament works. They are also joined here by the r otary c lub of Surrey's supervisor, past president John c ampbell, and my wife, isabelle Martinez h ayer. Would the h ouse please make them very welcome, these exceptional students and these teachers and r otary volunteers. Statements DorothY P ar VaZ D.

Donaldson: e arlier this month was World Press f reedom Day, which reminds us of reporter Dorothy Parvaz, a c anadian citizen, n orth Van resident, former ubc grad who has disappeared, apparently being held by iranian authorities after being deported from Syria for covering pro-democracy events. [1335] Would both sides of the h ouse please join in demon - strating support for Ms. Parvaz and her family in n orth Vancouver and express our hopes for a speedy and suc - cessful resolution to her detention. Introductions by Members Hon. M. de Jong: Dr.

Peter f roese is here. h e visits from a bbotsford. h e is attending the chamber today in his capacity as a representative of the f ederation of independent School a ssociations, which is appropri - ate because Dr. f roese has spent over 30 years in public and independent school education, most recently as the superintendent of Mei schools in a bbotsford. h e's visiting today with Mr. f red h erfst, who is the current executive director of the f ederation of in- dependent School a ssociations. h e will be retiring in June after 25 years of distinguished service, and Peter will be assuming the position of executive director. i hope all members will make Peter feel very welcome.

C. Trevena: i think most people in the h ouse are aware that May is c ystic fibrosis a wareness Month. t o mark the month, i'd hope the h ouse will make welcome a number of people in the gallery. c hris and bill black have been very involved in the fight against cystic fibro- sis.

Their daughter k im, as many of the members of the h ouse may be aware, starred, i would say, in a docu - mentary about cystic fibrosis. h er story was told in a recent documentary. a lso in the gallery are Wendy and Gerry u nderhill, whose 40-year-old son recently had a lung transplant in t oronto. a lso joining them is Joanne Wallis. i hope that the h ouse will make them all very welcome. a lso in the precincts, if not in the gallery at the moment, are 45 students from Pinecrest e lementary in c ampbell r iver.

They're accompanied by their teacher l isa Storrie and a number of parents. i have to attest that these are a very engaged group of young people who ask many very interesting questions about the parliamentary process. i hope that we prove ourselves to be worthy of their scru- tiny and that the house will make them welcome. J. Thornthwaite: i'd like to welcome to the h ouse my ca, chief executive officer of my office and chief of staff c arol Dawson, who is also a very good friend of mine way back from high school in the olden days. i wish everybody…. interjection. J.

Thornthwaite: Y es, that old. i'd like to wish her very well and to thank her very much for joining us. M. Elmore: i'm very pleased to be introducing 30 grade 5 students joining us today from the c orpus christi e lementary School. They're sitting here above me, and they're accompanied by their grade 5 teacher o lympia Monteiro; a student assistant, fiona f arquharson; the chairperson of the parish education committee, c edric

british c olumbia Debates7094 t uesday, May 17, 2011 Vaz; parents Y olanda Malari, Patrick l ee, Steve c han, Milada Delatorrey and Melchior Pat; as well as the teacher, a nthony chung. They're enjoying their visit and going to be visiting the museum. i'd please ask every - body to make them feel very welcome. Hon. S. Bond: it is my privilege today to introduce a number of distinguished guests who are joining us here in the precinct.

We're very delighted to be joined by Justice Thomas braidwood, Qc. h e has served at the highest levels of b.c .'s judiciary and has led vital commissions related to policing issues in our province. i'm also very pleased to welcome Justice braidwood's wife, Phyllis. in addition, we have Peter h ourihan, commanding officer of the rcMP's e division and the deputy com - missioner. We have rcMP Supt. t onia enger, president of the b.c. a ssociation of c hiefs of Police; c hief c onst. Jim c hu of the Vancouver police department; t om Stamatakis, president of the b.c.

Police a ssociation; and c layton Pecknold, the assistant deputy minister of poli - cing and the security programs branch. i am confident that all members of the h ouse will want to make this very distinguished group of guests welcome to the precinct today. [1340] K. Conroy: it gives me a great deal of pleasure to introduce f iona Martin. f iona is a teacher at Stanley h umphries senior secondary in c astlegar, where she teaches in the f rench immersion department.

She was chosen to participate in the teachers institute this week. i know she's a really great teacher, as in the past she's had the delightful experience of educating our young - est son as well as, currently, my nieces. They all shared stories with me about her that i'll share with her but that i won't share in the chamber today. Please join me in making her welcome. Hon. S.

Thomson: i'd like the h ouse to make welcome three guests in the l egislature today from Weyerhaeuser c anada. i had the opportunity to meet with them earlier today and discuss their b.c. and c anadian operations — f red Dzida, who's director of c anadian t imberlands; Wayne r oznowsky, who is their manager of public affairs for c anada; and r ob Marshall, who is their manager of Princeton t imberlands. Would the h ouse please make them welcome. Statements international Da Y a Gain St ho Mo Phobia S.

Chandra Herbert: i rise today to acknowledge international Day a gainst h omophobia, and i ask the h ouse to join me in marking today by working to end homophobia in your own communities and by celebrat- ing the great diversity of our province. Introductions by Members D. Barnett: i'd like the h ouse today to welcome my constituency assistant bonnie Gavin. bonnie is the daughter of the past Mla for the c ariboo for a long time and, i believe, the longest-serving t ransportation Minister in the province of british c olumbia, who the a lex f raser bridge is named after. Would the h ouse please welcome bonnie.

Tabling Documents Mr. Speaker: h on. Members, i have the honour to present the Elections B.C. Service Plan for 2011-2012. Introduction and First Reading of Bills bill 12 — Police (inD eP enD ent in Ve Sti Gation S o ffice) aMenDMent a ct, 2011 h on. S. bond presented a message from h is h onour the a dministrator: a bill intituled Police (i ndependent investigations office) a mendment a ct, 2011. Hon. S. Bond: i move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now. Motion approved. Hon. S. Bond: i am pleased to introduce the Police (independent investigations office) a mendment a ct.

This bill will create an independent investigations of - fice which will fulfil a central recommendation of the braidwood c ommission and strengthen public confi - dence in police. The independent investigations office will investigate serious incidents involving both the municipal police and the rcMP .

Specifically, it will be led by a civilian who has never served as a police officer. it will conduct criminal investigations into police- related incidents involving death or serious harm and will be able to do investigations involving other serious incidents. it will be able to investigate members of all b.c. police agencies, including independent munici - pal departments and the rcMP . it will have its powers entrenched in this legislation. it will report, as recom - mended, to the a ttorney General. b.c.'s office will invest a broader range of serious police-involved incidents than ontario's model and be more independent than a lberta's, reporting to the

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 17, 2011 7095 a ttorney General rather than the minister responsible for policing. in addition, the proposed legislation will allow the office's civilian director to appoint a civilian monitor.

The monitor will be free to raise concerns to the direc - tor about the integrity of an investigation and submit a final report within 30 days after the investigation is completed. i am very proud to say that we have worked very hard over the past year to turn this important recommen - dation of Justice braidwood into the legislation i am introducing today. i believe it sets a new standard for civilian-led police investigation and accountability. finally, this bill also includes some minor amend - ments to provide clarification and improvements to some of the other sections of the Police a ct. Mr.

Speaker, i move that the bill be placed on the or - ders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. [1345] bill 12, Police (i ndependent investigations office) a mendment a ct, 2011, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the h ouse after today. Statements (Standing Order 25B) role of Prince ru Pert in a Sia -Pacific Gate Wa Y G.

Coons: a century after it was incorporated and c harles h ayes dreamt of the great port city, Prince r upert has strongly embodied itself on the international stage. on a pril 8 one of coSco c anada's container ships, the MV COSCO Prince Rupert with 8500 teu capacity, berthed in its namesake. a s one of the deepest ice-free year-round harbours in the world with a 58-hour-shorter transportation time, it's no wonder that many have seen its great po - tential. a s part of the a sia-Pacific gateway and corridor the efficiency and reliability of this port has helped to improve c anada's trade relations with a sia and has potential to open up a larger market for c anadian- made value-added products.

Some locally generated exports have included waste paper, scrap steel and a Prince r upert specialty, chilled rather than frozen seafood. Prince r upert's resiliency has demonstrated that even when faced with difficult times, when given support, the community can achieve great things. Those who have worked so hard to support an initiative that benefits the entire province of b.c. hope to see the support re - ciprocated with regards to other services and economic initiatives that share this waterway.

Prince r upert's container terminal is the first dedicated intermodal container terminal in n orth a merica with the design capacity to move 500,000 teu s per year. The northern decade is in its infancy, poised to grow exponentially. The economic, natural and human po - tential of the north will soon be unleashed, greatly impacting the economy and culture. The n orthern Mayors and r egional District c hairs r oundtable on t ransportation initiated several key recommendations for the minister responsible, with a forward-looking vision to unlock the full potential of the northern gateway.

Without effective and fully integrated transportation systems involving port, rail, road, air and affordable ferry, the movement of goods, commodities and people will be hindered not only by bottlenecks, low capacity and dispar- ity but by the lack of foresight to meet a changing world. international Da Y a Gain St ho Mo Phobia M. Stilwell: t oday is international Day a gainst h omophobia, a day dedicated to promoting a prejudice- free world that has respect for everyone regardless of their sexual orientation.

May 17 is symbolic as it was the day in 1992 when homosexuality was officially removed from the list of mental illnesses of the World h ealth organization, ending over a century of homophobia and ignorance in the medical field.

Gay and lesbian individuals have been discrimin - ated against like few minority groups. h owever, major advances have been made in the courts and by for - ward-thinking governments and their citizens. t oday homosexual people are stepping out of the shadows. h owever, despite these breakthroughs homophobia continues to be a problem. h omophobia today exists in- sidiously, propagated by public figures and groups subtly criticizing homosexuality as a choice or as a disease to be corrected or cured. These individuals and groups espouse antiquated ideas and spread hate about these amazing members of our community.

The homophobic messages promoted make it difficult for many gay and lesbian individuals to live their sexual orientation, as they are certainly entitled to do. n otwithstanding, today is not meant to solely focus on hate and prejudice. international Day a gainst h omo- phobia is a tremendous opportunity to highlight the positive aspects of individuals and celebrate the contribu- tion of the gay and lesbian community to our society. h on. Speaker, i encourage this assembly to stand with me against homophobia. Queen ale Xan Dra ele Mentar Y Scho ol J.

Kwan: l ast f riday morning i watched a beauti - ful play, Acceptance: I Am Who I Am . it was written

british c olumbia Debates7096 t uesday, May 17, 2011 and performed by grades 6 and 7 students of Queen a lexandra e lementary School. The play was based on their own experiences and told the story of the struggle between fitting in, accepting and showing their own unique selves. a t Queen a lexandra, or Qa, children have the chance to learn far more than the three rs of reading, writing and 'rithmetic. They learn to think independently. They learn to collabor - ate. Their talent is showcased with the help of artists in residence.

Qa's school plan recognizes that social and emo - tional health is key to the academic success of students and actively integrates curriculum that teaches antira - cism, anti-bullying and peaceful problem-solving. [1350] l ast summer when parents, students, educators and members of the Q a community found out that their school was slated for potential closure, they organized, rallied and made plans to save their school. The Qa com - munity developed a plan to further enhance the existing strengths of Qa and presented their vision to the school board.

The innovative plan formalizes Qa as a fine arts, multicultural, integrated-learning-for-youth school. This vision builds on the programs and community partnerships already in place, such as k idSafe, the ubc l earning e xchange, c edar c ottage n eighbourhood h ouse and Sarah Mclachlan music outreach. The school strives to nurture the whole child to develop into a suc - cessful global citizen.

Through project-based learning, children have the chance to develop a wide range of skills such as critical thinking, problem-solving, collaboration and com - munication, as well as to foster students' self-expression, confidence and respect for diversity. The school teaches acceptance and respect and incor - porates the histories of the multicultural communities into the students' learning experience. r ecently the Sfu community engagement program has been in discus - sions about developing a partnership with Qa, inviting all others to join in to be part of this wonderful school with over 100 years of history.

Girl GuiD eS' caMP ola Ve on Sun Shine coa St L. Reid: i rise today to celebrate the Girl Guides of c anada's c amp o lave. c amp o lave is located at r oberts creek on the Sunshine c oast and has served young Sparks, brownies, Guides, Pathfinders and r angers and their leaders for the past 80 years.

The camp was previously tax-exempt, but a municipal boundary change altered their tax status. h is Worship Mayor inkster and his council provided a grant-in- lieu of taxes owing for this tax year. i'm grateful to the council and to the countless friends of c amp o lave — including the Mla for Powell r iver–Sunshine c oast, who did a fabulous job — the girls and Guiders past and present who embraced safeguarding c amp o lave for fu- ture generations. The motto for Guiding is "be prepared." a number of wonderful women are building a c amp o lave endow- ment fund, and they would welcome your support.

They need to be prepared should a grant-in-lieu of taxes not be available in the future. Please make contact with the Victoria f oundation and offer your support. Guiding in c anada celebrated its 100th anniversary in 2010, and with your support, this organization will continue to offer programs of leader - ship for young women for generations to come. c YStic fibro SiS a Warene SS anD funD raiS in G Walk S.

Simpson: May is c ystic fibrosis Month in c anada. once again the Great Strides for cystic fibrosis fundrais - ing walk will be happening on May 29. cf is the most common and fatal genetic disease facing young people in our country. it causes a mucus buildup by damag - ing the lining of the lungs and blocking enzymes from reaching the intestines to digest food. it affects about one in 3,600 children in b.c., includ - ing my nephew l iam. l iam is 11 years old and full of life and energy, but it is a life that includes regular hospital trips for his tune-ups and his many medications. h owever, in the 1960s children with cf rarely lived to attend kindergarten. t oday over half live well into their 40s, but it is still not good enough.

We are making progress, but we still have a long way to go. i know how l iam's diagnosis radically changed his family's lives and their daily routines, including signifi - cant additional costs, even with government support. a cross b.c. families deal with the challenges of cf every day. They face pressures that leave a terrible uncertainty for their future, an uncertainty that includes the time when these young people begin to understand the con - sequences of their afflictions to their own futures.

These types of pressures have too often led to family breakups, as parents find it increasingly difficult to deal with the strains and realities of cf and the fallout on other aspects of their relationships. This is what makes c ystic fibrosis Month so important. i am hopeful l iam will live to collect his old age pension, but it will require more supports from government and individuals, in - cluding funding for medical research and increased support for cf families. i'll be walking in the Great Strides fundraiser on May 29 and hope all members and all british c olumbians will support the fight against cf .

We can beat this disease. We can give our young people with cf , like l iam, back their lives. i know every member in this h ouse would agree that nothing could be more important than giving all cf kids this opportunity. We can make it happen.

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 17, 2011 7097 national roaD Safet Y Week anD Sea to SkY hi GhW a Y iMPro VeMent S J.

McIntyre: i rise to inform the h ouse and encour - age all british c olumbians to honour n ational r oad Safety Week, May 17 to 23, 2011. e ach year this week leading up to the Victoria Day long weekend kicks off the summer driving season, encouraging drivers to keep their eyes on the road and minimize driver distractions. [1355] a t this time of year drivers are sharing the road with increased numbers of vulnerable road users — motor - cyclists, cyclists and pedestrians — who all have an increased risk of death or critical injury should they be involved in a collision.

Public safety is priority number one in developing and expanding b.c.'s transportation networks. i've seen firsthand how a safety upgrade investment in a major highway can improve our ability to move passengers and goods in a safer and more efficient manner. r esidents and visitors to the Sea to Sky corridor are now enjoying enhancements made to the once notori - ous h ighway 99 that links communities from West Van to north of Whistler. improvements like straightening and improving sightlines, 80 kilometres of new pass - ing lanes, reflective pavement markings, rumble strips, wider shoulders and improved pullouts have all com - bined to more than meet the goal of reducing accidents by 30 percent.

Prior to construction there was an average of 215 col- lisions per year, and since, collisions have been reduced by approximately 66 percent, head-on crashes by ap - proximately 80 percent. Sixty-three people died from 1998 to 2007 and only one fatality in 2010. Think of the loss prevented. There's a plaque at t unnel Point, north of h orseshoe bay, honouring the over 2,000 workers who laboured from 2003 to '09 to build a magnificent project on budget and on time, designed to improve public safety. n ow we all have to take our cues from n ational r oad Safety Week and drive responsibly.

Oral Questions iMPact of lo G e XPort P olic Y on fore St in Du Str Y N. Macdonald: The vice-president at t eal-Jones in Surrey, h anif k armally, says his mill would be running three shifts. They have the market for lumber. What they don't have is access to b.c. wood. h e says it is because the b.c. l iberals are shipping our logs overseas. b.c. logs should create jobs in b.c. That's something almost everyone in this province agrees on.

So can the Minister of f orests tell us why he's shipping thousands of jobs to c hina instead of ensuring that logs stay in british c olumbia to create jobs for british c olumbia families? Hon. S. Thomson: i appreciate the opportunity to comment on this very important policy. f irst, to correct the member opposite, the log export policy in british c olumbia is one that creates jobs in british c olumbia. Since 2009 we've opened 27 new mills — 1,600 new jobs here in british c olumbia.

That equates to over 6,000 additional jobs, building jobs for families in forest- dependent communities across the province. i do want to say that we have noticed the increasing number of log exports. The former Minister of f orests and myself agree that we would much rather export lumber than logs, and we're going to continue to look at the policy. it does need to be a balanced policy. We are discussing it with industry. We are reviewing it.

Most importantly, we need to recognize that the cur - rent policy does create jobs here in british c olumbia. it needs to be balanced, and we're going to continue to work towards that balance. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. N. Macdonald: There are 30,000 less jobs under the b.c. l iberals than there were under any previous gov - ernment. They have lost jobs. More than 30 mills shut down on the coast under the b.c. l iberals. These were good family-supporting jobs. Meanwhile in c hina 80 mills have sprung up. The logs are coming from british c olumbia and going through c hinese mills.

This is a direct result of b.c. l iberal forest policy. t ens of thousands of jobs lost, mills shut down, government revenue lost. So instead of feeding b.c. families, british c olumbia's forests are feeding c hinese mills. The question is: does the minister disagree with the vast majority of british c olumbians who make the state- ment that this does not make sense? b.c. logs should be for b.c. jobs. Hon. S.

Thomson: We have had a log export policy in british c olumbia since 1912. it's been provided for in the f orest a ct and has continued all the way through the process. it's been managed. l ogs do not leave british c olumbia without a surplus test applied to them. if they're required for the domestic industry, they're made available to domestic industry. [1400] There's a timber export advisory committee that man- ages that process, oversees that process. That advisory committee includes provincial and federal government, independent mill operators, forest industry repre - sentatives, workers in this industry.

They manage that process.

british c olumbia Debates7098 t uesday, May 17, 2011 a s i said, this is a balanced policy. This is one that is creating jobs. a log export policy is part of the equation that ensures we have viability in our mills, viability in our industry in the province. it is one part of the equa - tion that does that. it's one that, as i said, is creating good, well-paying jobs in forest-dependent communities in this province. That's one that is supporting families in those communities. We will continue to review the policy. a s i said, i have noted the increase. We are looking at it.

We are discuss- ing it with industry, and i will be meeting with teac. Mr. Speaker: The member has a further supple - mental. N. Macdonald: This is unprecedented. f orty percent of the wood cut on the coast was sent offshore — 40 percent. t eal-Jones is running two shifts and not even two shifts full-time. They could be running three shifts full-time. We've heard minister after minister say that it's because of markets, but the fact is that t eal-Jones has a market. What they don't have is fibre. So the question is: why are b.c. logs being used to create jobs in c hina when our mills are sitting idle? Hon. S.

Thomson: a s i've pointed out, a log export policy, a balanced one, is part of the equation that en - sures we have viability in our forest industry. it's been a key part of the equation. Perhaps the member opposite would like to review a statement by the former leader of the nDP , the member for Victoria–beacon h ill, who said: "i've been clear that you can't ban raw log exports. There are communities at certain times when log exports have kept workers go - ing and kept communities going." That's the case then; that's the case now. B.

Routley: i worked in the forest industry on the coast of british c olumbia for more than 30 years, and i can say that in all that time i've never seen a govern - ment decide it was okay to ship 40 percent of the b.c. coastal jobs overseas. e ven going back to the days of W .a.c. bennett, b.c. governments believed that b.c. logs should create b.c. jobs. What does this Minister of f orests have to say to b.c. families about signing off on the export of their jobs? Hon. S. Thomson: a s i pointed out and i made clear, a log export policy is part of creating jobs in british c olumbia.

The log export policy allows mills and allows companies to harvest the total profile of the stand in the areas that they're logging. That means that they can har- vest under the current economic conditions. This is what has kept mills operating, kept mills going, kept mills em- ploying people in our communities. So it's part of the policy. it's part of what makes a healthy industry. a s i said earlier, i've noticed the increase. We are con- tinuing to discuss that with industry, and we'll continue to meet with teac to ensure that the policy is managed in a balanced way. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental.

B. Routley: This l iberal government has signed off on the export of 40 percent of this year's coastal har - vest as being — get this — surplus to the manufacturing needs of british c olumbia. a t a time when mills are shut down up and down the coast of british c olumbia, this government says that 40 percent of the logs are sur- plus. This is simply outrageous. This is a 300 percent increase in the export of raw logs from the province of british c olumbia.

Will this minister finally admit that the log export approval system in the province of british c olumbia is broken and that it's not working in the interests of b.c. forest families? [1405] Hon. S. Thomson: Mr. Speaker, 27 mills opened and reopened since 2009; 1,600 jobs in those communities where those mills are operating; ten mills operating to - day simply because of the work that's been done by the former minister — and continues to do — in building the market in c hina. We're building capacity for our in- dustry.

This is what is helping the industry through this very, very significant economic challenge that the indus- try is facing. a s i said, we're going to continue to make sure that the policy is balanced. a s i said, the logs do not leave this prov- ince without having the surplus test applied to them. The more important thing, i think, to the members opposite: the job export policy that the industry is most concerned about is the members' opposite support for go- ing back to the job-killing PSt . The hS t is a $140 million benefit to the forest industry of british c olumbia. D.

Routley: h armac pulp mill was rescued from the Pope and t albot bankruptcy by the strength and cour - age of its workers. The Pope and t albot sawmill next door was shut down. n ow a chain-link fence separates those two mills. a cross that fence are mountains of raw logs about to be exported to c hina. on the other side of the fence is the h armac pulp mill, which is frequently curtailed because of a lack of fibre. Their problem is that they can't get fibre.

Well, it's more than a chain-link fence that separates those jobs from that fibre. it's failed l iberal policies that separate those workers from their jobs. Those logs are deemed to be surplus to need, and yet the mill next door is curtailed. c an the minister please speak to those families — tell them what he thinks about the export of their jobs?

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 17, 2011 7099 Hon. S. Thomson: a s i mentioned, 27 mills re - opened or opened since 2009 — 1,600 jobs. building diversity in our markets and capacity in markets is what has helped this industry through a very, very difficult economic circumstance. That is what has kept people working in our communities. a s i mentioned, again, i've noticed the increase in the volume of logs being exported.

We are looking at that. it's important that we do. it's important that we make sure that the system and the process is balanced. a s i said, and the former minister said as well, we would much rather prefer exporting lumber. We're continuing to build markets for lumber in those other markets. We will continue to do so, and we'll continue to work to make sure that our policy is balanced. but very clearly, the current log export policy is creating jobs and economic opportunity in our communities. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. D.

Routley: Well, provincewide they lost — what? — 90 mills? h e claims 30? n egative 60 is the outcome? on the coast here we've seen 30 mills shut down. We've seen 30 mills and thousands of jobs lost. This minister should accept that fact and do his job. h e needs to do like the workers of h armac: roll up his sleeves and work for the province. Will the minister commit today to enact policies that will protect those jobs at h armac… interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. D. Routley: …protect those families, stop the ex - port of those logs and support the economy of british c olumbia? interjections. Mr.

Speaker: Members. Members. l et's listen to the question and then listen to the answer. [1410] Hon. S. Thomson: Jobs that are being created with the current policy, the current development of the mar - kets, in other markets…. We're moving away from the reliance on u .S. markets. That's what's creating oppor - tunities for our industry. f or example, the c oast t simshian r esources in the northwest — 200 jobs built on the basis of a c hina market which includes the export of logs. That's 200 jobs and capacity in a first n ations community in the northwest. That's where we're focused.

That's how we're helping build the economy of british c olumbia. Go VernMent PolicieS on forei Gn traD e ZoneS G. Gentner: John r ies from the Sauder school of eco- nomics has stated that foreign trade zones are simply a race to the bottom.

With foreign trade zones, govern - ment has to provide subsidies and loosen environmental labour standards. it is unclear what the benefits are to british c olumbians, but it is clear that foreign trade zones are indicators of a failed economic policy. f or the record, can the Minister of t ransportation and infrastructure explain what the benefits of pushing through a foreign trade zone would be for the average british c olumbian? Hon. B.

Lekstrom: Well, we have posted a request for proposals in f ebruary for an independent research and analysis of foreign trade zones. i'm looking forward to receiving that. but my knowledge of foreign trade zones — and i'm sure the member has done his research — is that this is not about a tax-exempt status for workers los- ing their jobs and so on. This is about the ability that's used around the world in foreign trade zones where commodities can be brought forward, products.

They can be value-added. if they remain in the country — and in this case, it would be c anada — the full taxation statutes would apply. if they are then redistributed to other countries, they wouldn't. i'm looking forward to the information that's brought forward, and we'll read it thoroughly, as i'm sure the member will do as well. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. G. Gentner: it's interesting.

The minister seems to know what a foreign trade zone is, and yet they're still asking for a request for proposal to do a research study on it. if those are the benefits, then why are the b.c . l iberals choosing to sneak this policy through, just like they did with the hS t? h on. Speaker, once a sneak, al - ways a sneak.

Y esterday on Global the Minister of Jobs, t ourism and innovation stated that the Premier asked him to have a hard look at the foreign trade zone. n ow, can the min - ister explain to the h ouse how the Premier can ask the government to initiate a foreign trade zone when the re- quest for a proposal was already underway before she had even won the leadership bid? it doesn't add up. The good old boys are back at it again — aren't they, Mr. Speaker? interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members.

british c olumbia Debates7100 t uesday, May 17, 2011 G. Gentner: The ministers will have their foreign trade zone blueprint in their hands this summer with no public consultation. it's a done deal. t o the minister: if this is such a good deal for british c olumbians, why so much secrecy? Hon. B. Lekstrom: Through to the member: prob - ably some information that may change your mind on the question you've just asked, actually.

The rfP is a public document posted on the internet. i don't know how secret that could possibly be if it's available to the world for their consideration. i encourage the member to look at that. f oreign trade zones — as well, in your earlier com - ments — are not a new concept. h ow would i know what they are? i've actually done some research, hon. Member, and i encourage you to do the same. Potential uS e of Delta lanDS for forei Gn traD e Zone V .

Huntington: Well, my interest in free trade zones is their location, and in estimates we were told that it wouldn't necessarily be in Delta. it might be in Prince r upert or Prince George or at the Vancouver airport. [1415] but i have to say…. i hope the minister forgives me for being suspicious when the former, former Minister of t ransportation takes b.c . r ail to Dubai with him, when Global c ontainer t erminals at Deltaport is owned in Dubai, when Global c ontainer chairs the steering com - mittee advocating free trade zones in b.c., when b.c. r ail has stockpiled more land than it requires for rail expansion and when a land consolidation group is se - cretly optioning agricultural land adjacent to the b.c . holdings in Delta.

Will the minister tell me whether this government is contemplating a free trade zone on the agricultural lands in Delta? Hon. B. Lekstrom: The issue of foreign trade zones — as i said, i'm looking forward to receiving a docu - ment that will outline. This is not a new concept used around the world. There is no determination whatso - ever, Member, that any determinations have been made, whether you're suspicious or not. i have had the opportunity to meet with you on num- erous occasions.

There is no determination, locations of any such, and no decision has been made on that. i think that would be far too premature. a s i indicated, there was an rf P put forward through the internet, a public document. a gain, i want to re - iterate that. i'm looking forward to the findings of that. i'm looking forward to the ability to review that docu - ment. but no, there has been no indication of any piece of property, whether it be in british c olumbia or any - where else that i know of, that has been committed to such an exercise. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. V .

Huntington: i thank the minister for his response, but we've learned some hard lessons in Delta, and when this government secretly gets this far down the road in any planning, it's usually a done deal. a Dubai model free trade zone has nothing to do with community. The whole point of a modern free trade zone is to protect business from community.

This isn't about jobs. it's about greed. it's about flipping land in Delta, and it's about the destruction of the finest agricul- tural land in c anada. i'm asking this minister: if this feasibility study recommends free trade zones in b.c., will the minis - ter tell us today that his government will not remove land from the alr to create an industrial wasteland in Delta? Hon. B.

Lekstrom: r ecognizing your concerns and suspicions, i do want to point out they're foreign trade zones, not free trade zones, something that we're look - ing at. i don't want to predetermine what the report will say. i'm looking forward to reading it, seeing what it has. f oreign trade zones do, though, when you look around the world, have the opportunity to create jobs.

There is a lot of speculation in your question, a lot of speculation that i think is unfounded, to be honest with you, Member. i'm looking forward, as i said. a foreign trade zone concept is not new in the world that we live in. it is a concept that we have put out an rfP for.

We have com - missioned a report that will be brought back. i'm looking forward to that. i am all for continuing to enhance our gateway to the a sia-Pacific. it is a vitally important part of our economy. if we have the ability to create jobs for british c olumbians and their families and their children grow - ing up here, i'm going to do everything i can to ensure that happens. Ser ViceS for De Velo PMentall Y DiSableD P erSonS K.

Corrigan: The Minister of Social Development as- sured this h ouse that all individuals with developmental disabilities have a plan ready for them when they come into c ommunity l iving b.c. My question to the min - ister: is there funding in clbc available to implement these plans? Hon. H. Bloy: c hildren transitioning into adulthood — c ommunity l iving b.c. is committed to assisting

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 17, 2011 7101 these individuals. They are meeting with the individ - uals before they're 19 when they're known to them, and they're drawing a plan for them so that they will be able to contribute to the community. [1420] Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. K.

Corrigan: Dave and k athy Martin's son Jonathan has a dual diagnosis of Down syndrome and autism, and he is non-verbal. a clbc facilitator pre - pared a report outlining his needs. l et me quote from the report: "Jonathan requires significant supports in virtually all areas of personal care needs." a nother quote: "there is a grave concern that Jonathan's in - dependence and acquired skill would quickly decline after he finishes high school and if a day program is not available." Y et after issuing this report, which included recom - mendations for the kind of round-the-clock care he should receive, clbc informed the Martin family that "all available funding for day program, one-on-one life skill support and respite is currently committed" — meaning that Jonathan won't get a single service that he desperately needs. a gain to the minister: what's the point of making a plan for clients of clbc if the b.c. l iberals have no in- tention of giving vulnerable individuals like Jonathan the care they need?

Hon. H. Bloy: if i could ask the member across the way to send me the information on this, i'd be prepared to talk to her about it. but i believe it's important for c ommunity l iving b.c. to make a plan for every indi - vidual that's coming into the system. c ommunity l iving b.c. is committed to first helping those with health and safety issues and, next, those individuals that do not have any services provided. N. Simons: The Minister of Social Development says that it's important to have plans in place for people tran- sitioning from young adulthood to adulthood or from childhood to young adulthood.

What is the point of having these plans if there's absolutely nothing available to these struggling families to provide the supports for their children with disabilities? Hon. H. Bloy: i believe it's important to draw a plan for every individual. e very young person in this country, as they're growing up and going through high school, starts to make plans for life, and i think it's important that they all have an opportunity. c ommunity l iving b.c. is committed to helping these individuals formu - late a plan for their life. Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. N.

Simons: i find that answer to be entirely insuffi - cient. it's like saying that you can be fed with a list of ingredients, and what you really need is the actual pro - gram in place for these young families. We're hearing from families across the province, from Prince George to t errace to a bbotsford, and these fam- ilies are all saying the same thing.

They're saying that there isn't any funding available to provide the neces - sary supports to keep their young families, their young children or adult children, with the programs that they need to be included in the community — the basic, fun - damental responsibility of clbc. Will the minister do something or tell the people of this province that he will be advocating for the needs of these families? Will he do what's necessary to relieve the crisis that currently exists in british c olumbia? Hon. H.

Bloy: a gain, i want to say to the member that i believe it's important that every individual has a plan. i want to say that it's important, and i want to say that i am a strong advocate on behalf of these indi - viduals. i've been in this position, and there are some challenges there. but there are so many opportunities for these individuals, and i have all the faith in the work that c ommunity l iving b.c. is doing to provide assist - ance to each individual. M. Farnworth: The families of these kids are the ones who are committed.

They're the ones who are commit - ted to looking after them every single day, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year. What they want is some commitment from this government that they'll be there to support them. [1425] The minister talks about plans and the need to have plans — absolutely, Minister. but what you require to make those plans happen, what those families need, is for those plans to have funds. Minister, the caseload over the last ten years has grown by 59 percent. f unding has not kept pace.

What's your message to those families who have the plans but the government isn't prepared to fund them? Hon. H. Bloy: i'll repeat again that i'm in favour of plans, and plans are put in place. There are some con - cerns out there, but we are helping those most in need with safety and health issues and, secondly, people that are not receiving any services at the present time.

We need the plan to be able to work with them in the future. i can tell all members of this h ouse that we have in - creased the budget year after year, services year after year, since we started c ommunity l iving british c olumbia. it was this government that started c ommunity l iving british c olumbia with partners, and it's now recognized around the world for the services that it provides.

british c olumbia Debates7102 t uesday, May 17, 2011 Mr. Speaker: The member has a supplemental. M. Farnworth: it's families of kids with disabilities in this province who are looking to this government to live up to the promise of clbc, hon. Speaker. The minis - ter has failed to answer the basic question. f amilies are putting together plans; clbc is telling them the funds aren't there in place.

What is the message of this government to those families who are desperately seeking respite care, help and support while they look after their kids who have disabilities every single day of the year, who this govern- ment is turning its back on? Hon. H. Bloy: i want to reassure the members and to say again that we have increased the budget year after year. We have increased services year after year. c ommunity l iving b.c. has looked at innovative ways to provide ser- vices year after year. We're working for every individual in this province with developmental disabilities. [end of question period.] B.

Bennett: i seek leave to make an introduction. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Introductions by Members B. Bennett: it's my pleasure to introduce my two constituency assistants, Jennifer o smar and brenda bannister, who raced here from the airport so that they could watch question period — which proves conclu - sively that somebody does care. Please help me make them welcome. Hon. H. Bloy: i ask leave to make an introduction. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. Hon. H.

Bloy: i'd like to introduce a constituent of my riding, Mr. f red h erfst. h e's the executive director of the f ederation of independent School a ssociations in british c olumbia. R. Sultan: i seek leave to make an introduction. Mr. Speaker: Proceed. R. Sultan: in the galleries today we have the brains behind West Vancouver–capilano, my ca t erry o aken. Would the house please make her welcome. N. Macdonald: i'd like the h ouse to join me in welcom- ing Darryl Walker, who is head of the b.c. Government employees u nion. Please make him welcome. Orders of the Day Hon. R.

Coleman: in this h ouse this afternoon we'll be continuing the estimates of the Ministry of e ducation. in c ommittee a we'll be doing the estimates of the Ministry of f orests, l ands and n atural r esources o perations. [1430] Committee of Supply e Sti Mate S: Mini Str Y of e Ducation (continued) The h ouse in c ommittee of Supply (Section b); l. r eid in the chair. The committee met at 2:34 p.m. on Vote 22: ministry operations, $5,241,877,000 (continued). R. Austin: i'm going to lead off this afternoon with something that the minister finished with just prior to lunch.

The minister, in the answer to one of his ques - tions, moved into talking about personalized learning. So i'm going to start with a few questions around per - sonalized learning. Just for the purpose of giving some context to the questions, i'd like to spend a couple of minutes to create that context. [1435] l ate last year in an address — i believe it was in o ctober of 2010 — the former Premier, Gordon c ampbell, an- nounced that the government would be investing $9.6 million towards personalized early learning.

The goal was to address the approximately 20 percent of children completing grade 4 who are not reading, writing or suf - ficient in numeracy at that grade level. i think, in fairness, $9.6 million equates to $1,618 per school, or $11 per student per year over five years. n ow, the purpose of this investment, as outlined by Premier c ampbell, was threefold: to expand the StrongStart b.c . network, which the minister has spoken to…. by the way, i think StrongStart is a very good thing, but we should be mindful of the fact that it does require a parent to be present, and seeing as the majority of british c olumbia families are two-parent working families, it doesn't address the needs of all of those kids in the majority of families whose parent is not able to attend a StrongStart. a nyway, the purpose of this investment was to expand StrongStart, to do early childhood learning assessments, which the minister spoke to before lunch, and also to address reading, writing and math at grade level.

So my question is this: will the ministry be meeting the personalized learning commitments that were out - lined in last fall's television address?

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 17, 2011 7103 Hon. G. Abbott: The short answer would be yes. but based on the presumption that the critic would like more, i would note, first of all, that on StrongStarts, we are going to be expanding the number of StrongStart centres. i should note, just for certainty and clarity, that it doesn't have to be a parent that accompanies a child to StrongStart. it could be an aunt, an uncle, a grand - parent, a caregiver, a guardian.

There are many that can accompany a child there. it doesn't necessarily have to be the parents. in terms of the other pieces that were articulated around testing and remediation and so on, the answer is yes. Those are definitely going to be part of the personal- ized learning agenda. R. Austin: h ow is the Ministry of e ducation's stated commitment to personalized learning reflected in this year's budget estimates for 2011-12? c ould the minister give me some specific budgetary commitments that are there to support the policy that he's just spoken to? [1440] Hon. G.

Abbott: i thank the member for the question. in terms of how we move forward towards a personalized learning model, in some cases it may involve additional resources. in another case it may be a matter of doing things differently than we have in the past. it is worth noting, for example, the three school districts that we talked about a little bit this morning — r evelstoke, southeast k ootenay and f ort n elson…. The school districts in those cases are achieving the re - sults they are with the same per-student funding as one would find in a less successful district.

So it is not always a matter of dollars being equated with system improvement. The way in which one de - ploys dollars is also, we believe, an important part of the introduction of personalized learning and providing attention to those matters. it is worth noting, though, that probably the most im- portant thing that this jurisdiction, british c olumbia, has undertaken in terms of pursuit of personalized learning and in pursuit of enhancing student achieve - ment is the introduction of all-day kindergarten. There is an additional $58 million in the budget for all-day kindergarten for b.c. That is important.

We be - lieve the evidence shows that all-day kindergarten will be very successful in enhancing student achievement over time. That's, i think, an appropriate and substantial investment by the province in that area. R. Austin: The service plan for this year says that the government will publish "a new and improved suite of goals, objectives, strategies and performance measures tied to personalized and 21st-century learn - ing." What will be the process of creating these goals, objectives, strategies and performance measures, and will there be consultation with teachers and parents and students? Hon. G.

Abbott: The answer is yes, we will be work - ing with all of the parties that the member mentioned. o ur commitment is the co-construction of a new model for education.

That is often referred to as personalized learning, sometimes 21st-century learning, sometimes individualized learning. r egardless of how it is named, it is an important step forward in terms of trying to ensure the best student achievement possible for every student. it will involve an ongoing conversation between the ministry and all of our educational partners, including the School t rustees a ssociation, the b.c. t eachers f ederation, principals and vice-principals, superintendents, parent advisory coun - cils and students themselves through Student Voice. [1445] a ll of them have important contributions to make in terms of understanding how we can improve the edu - cation system in the province, and i think it is vitally important that all of the partners have a hand in build - ing an improved education system.

R.

Austin: i'm glad to hear that the minister is con - firming that this broad consultation is going to take place and is going to be a part of the process before the govern- ment decides on this new and improved suite of goals, objectives, strategies and performance measures. c ould the minister tell this h ouse where in the budget the costs are that are going to be used to cover this kind of broad consultation before any changes are made? o bviously, there's a cost involved in doing that kind of consultation, that level of consultation, to make sure that all of the stakeholders and partners can come and participate. i'm wondering where in the ministry's budget that's going to be covered.

Hon. G. Abbott: The answer is that it is about the way that the ministry undertakes the business of gov - erning and educational reform. The member can look to any portion of the ministry's budget, exclusive of the transfers to the school districts, as areas that we would utilize to continue the conversation. The conversation is not one that has enormous costs attached to it, but what costs there are will come from the ministry's por - tion of the budget. R. Austin: Maybe i should have asked this ques - tion earlier.

Y ou know, we hear a lot, and the minister just used various terms — personalized learning, 21st- century learning. it's something that, as the critic, i've done a little bit of reading about. but i would like to ask the minister to perhaps spend a couple of minutes defining, on the public record, what he believes 21st- century learning is all about.

british c olumbia Debates7104 t uesday, May 17, 2011 Y ou speak to one school district, and they have this idea. Y ou speak to another school district, and their

interpretation of the material is something different. i'm wondering, and i think it's probably good for the minister to put it on the public record: what does the Minister of e ducation believe is his vision or the vision of the l iberal government in terms of the whole agenda around 21st-century learning? Hon. G. Abbott: i appreciate the member asking the question. There are many who have written on the sub - ject of personalized learning. one of the educators and authors who i'm particularly appreciative of is Sir k en r obinson.

The member may be familiar with his book The Element , which i think lays out a number of the building blocks of personalized learning. f or me, as i look at the possibilities for personalized learning, it is really looking, first of all, at the student as an individual and identifying very early in the life of that individual, first of all, any barriers that may exist to learning in that individual. That goes to the point we talked about earlier — attempting, as a system, in the very early years, possibly even pre-kindergarten, to pick up some physical disabilities which may be barriers to learning.

Those may be in the area of hearing and sight and so on.

That's an area where we've added some incre- mental testing to try to pick those pieces up. it is also important at k — or grade 1, hopefully, at the latest — to pick up less obvious barriers to learning to ensure that, for example, if a child is troubled by dyslexia or some other barrier to learning, that it's identified early, that the school and the school system understand that barrier and that a plan for remediation of the shortfall in learning that has occurred is remediated by, hopefully, a focused attention on reading, writing or numeracy, if that's the challenge that the child faces. [1450] i guess further, just ensuring, first of all, in the model that in that kindergarten to grade 4 period, when we do have such a spectacular opportunity to remediate short- falls in learning, we identify them, we remediate them and try to get them working optimally by grade 3.

That doesn't mean that every child is performing at genius level by grade 3 or grade 4. it means that they are performing to their optimal ability. i've referenced the three school districts earlier that have achieved that. That's something that we should be enormously proud of and that those school districts should be enormously proud of.

So in my conception, at least, of personalized learn - ing, it will be a matter of understanding what it is that those school districts are doing with such good effect, trying to draw from the success stories, best practices that could be produced in the system and then making those best practices generalized practices across the sys - tem so that if we have something that is working in at least three school districts, it is quite possible that they could work in 60 school districts. if we turn that around, i think it would produce enor- mous benefits, particularly…. f ort n elson, with a very high aboriginal student participation rate…. t o have the results that they have has got to say some very im - portant things about the future of education in british c olumbia.

That one is particularly interesting. i'm par - ticularly looking forward to learning more about that over time — the roots of that success. but if we can get students performing to their optimal level by grade 4, then after that, it's moving from, as they say, learning to read to reading to learn. Then, i think, the other area that particularly comes into play in grades 9 to 12 is in a personalized learning model, allowing stu- dents to explore their passion or interests.

We tend still, in the model of education we have, to push students sometimes into areas of learning that aren't of great interest to them. t o their credit, we have a number of school districts now — in fact, many school districts now — that have put into place in grades 10, 11 and 12 programs that allow students to, for example, explore a passion about building or construction or carpentry or one of the building trades outside of the school system. n ot because it's maybe the best model, but be - cause i'm familiar with it, in school district 83, n orth o kanagan-Shuswap, the school district, in partnership with o kanagan c ollege and in partnership with a private sector organization called the Shuswap c onstruction industry Professionals, has built a model where in grades 10, 11 and 12 students can get out of the school for a period of time.

They go out, do building, and then they'll be back in the school to build again their founda- tion skills around math, around reading, around writing. That's very complementary to what they want to pursue as a passion in their lives, which is the building trades. That's just one example. i'll close on this, because i may have given the mem - ber more than the couple of minutes that he was looking for necessarily. i can recall back…. it was probably going on ten years now, but i visited a.l. f ortune Secondary School in enderby, in my constituency.

The administrative assistant, or school secretary, at a.l. f ortune took me aside, actually, when i visited the school and said: "i t breaks my heart when i walk down the streets of enderby and i see kids who have dropped out in grade 9 or grade 10. They're on the sidewalks. They're in the park. They're self-medicating to deal with the pain of failing. We have to find some way to reach out to those kids that we're losing in high school and try to find a way to keep them in school and find a way to have them excited and feeling positive about their edu - cational experience." She was exactly right.

We've got to think about broadening the school system to take account of stu -

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 17, 2011 7105 dents as they come to us, not as we'd necessarily like them to be. [1455] There are some very good programs in terms of alter- nate schools around the province, and again, i think we can learn from that. but i think right through that whole band — all-day k to grade 12 — it's trying to address the students as they come to us and trying to address their interest, their passion, their element. R.

Austin: Thanks to the minister for those very in - teresting comments. c an i take it, then, that the minister is looking at finding alternatives to the accepted norm in british c olumbia, which is that every child should graduate with a traditional academic graduation certificate, and is perhaps looking at children, as the minister has alluded to, who simply are not that interested in the academic portions of grades 9, 10 or 11 material and are kind of switching off and therefore inevitably often dropping out of school — recognizing that that child may not like reading, writing and arithmetic but may like auto mechanics or carpentry or whatever and finding a way within our school system to actually transfer and shift their focus so that that child has an opportunity, then, to go within the school system, maybe again with some collaboration with a college or whatever? but is that sort of the minister's intention? t ry and move that so we can take, say, those 20 percent of kids who are failing and then say: "l ook, instead of finding failure in the school system, we're going to find an alter- nate for you to be able to go and find success. it may not necessarily come out with a graduation certificate, but you will be able to do what it is that you find interesting, and then you will be able to go out and hopefully find some gainful employment with that." is that what the minister is talking about here?

Hon. G. Abbott: The short answer would be yes, but of course, we should never be content with short an - swers in an estimates process. i think the longer, more thoughtful answer to the member's important question is this. f oundation skills are hugely important throughout everyone's life.

The foundation skills that hopefully we learn in kindergarten- to-grade-4 will serve us well through the balance of our k-to-12 experience and hopefully will particularly serve us well whether a student decides that they want to go into, let's say, building. one of the first things, of course, that students find when they go out on a jobsite is: "hey, that practical math has application after all." So the foundation skills around numeracy are hugely important in that. Similarly, say the interest might be in mechanics.

The modern mechanic, of course, uses quite remarkable technology in trying to understand what the vehicle is suffering from, and so you need to have that base set of reading and writing skills to be successful there. i think the answer to the member's important ques - tion is yes. l et's widen the description of what we believe to be success flowing from school but never lose sight that the foundation skills are always going to be enor - mously important, just recognizing that the application of those skills might be different in one circumstance than another. R.

Austin: i'd like to ask a question in regards to the inequity in access to technology. This is a personal inter- est of mine, because obviously i come from a part of the province that doesn't necessarily have access to a lot of things at home. The minister will be well aware that more students have access to their own technology at home, and sometimes they bring that technology to school. Those students whose families don't have the resources for their children are therefore excluded from having access to that technology. [1500] My question is this.

What funding is being provided to overcome these inequities not only between schools but also between individual students in regards to access to technology? Hon. G. Abbott: i thank the member for his ques - tion. it's an important one. i suspect that as we move forward in this decade and a succession of ministers and e ducation critics have the opportunity to discuss edu - cation, technology will feature more prominently year over year in these discussions than ever before.

The first issue, i think, to talk about a little bit is the whole question of the utilization of technology in edu - cation, and there's been a considerable debate around that. The tension between sort of traditional pedagogy and utilization of technology is an important one and one that is probably not entirely resolved yet.

There is, in the Premier's council on technology re - port, a fascinating graph, which the member may be familiar with. it's a graph of student utilization of tech - nologies, whether it's computer or blackberry or other communications technology. it shows a huge spike from early morning through the start of school hours, then drops way down, pops way up at noon hour, way down as school resumes and way up after school. c learly, we're seeing students utilize technology enor- mously outside of schools but only to a limited extent in school, although it's changing and changing dramatic - ally and changing quickly. it is now estimated that 80 percent of british c olumbia's families utilize computer technology.

So that's a huge shift over time as well. Without a doubt, i think we will be seeing more and more utilization of technology in schools not as a substi- tute for foundation skills and the continued development

british c olumbia Debates7106 t uesday, May 17, 2011 of foundation skills through k-to-12 but utilization of technology for exploring learning areas. The computer is fabulous. We have at our fingertips masses of informa- tion about the world, and we can get there by clicking a couple of buttons, and it's an amazing thing.

So notwithstanding the debate about what the ap - propriate balance is between face-to-face learning and utilizing technology and learning and distance learning and all of that, i think that we will see more and more utilization of technology. [1505] The member's question about the cost of it is a good one. i did meet with an organization, which i think has been around for at least a decade, called c omputers for Schools, which is a non-profit that utilizes a lot of the surplus computers, particularly from the federal gov - ernment but also from a variety of private and other sectors.

The computers are sort of refitted, remediated if they need to be, and they are sold to schools for a very small percentage of the real-world cost, probably 10 percent or less of the cost. Schools can equip themselves with these refitted, effectively brand-new computers for a fraction of what it would cost to buy them in the marketplace. i'm told by the folks from c omputers for Schools that they can do more. if schools are interested, they should contact them. if the opportunity for the actual hardware is the barrier, we should be able to overcome that rela - tively readily.

The issue about connectivity is an important one too. We're gradually pushing out the boundaries of connec - tivity across the province. i'm not familiar with what exactly in the member's riding the issues of connectivity may be. i know there are certainly still rural areas in my own constituency that are not served by a computer line. So that's an issue but probably every year is going to be less of an issue. R.

Austin: i just wanted to ask some questions with regards to seismic upgrading. i think it's probably very pertinent, as we've witnessed some of the tragedies that have happened around the world recently and know that we here in british c olumbia live in an area of seismic activity. in fact, i think i'm correct in saying that there was a 4.5-size earthquake just on the Queen c harlottes, i think three or four days ago.

So i think it's important for us to look at this area. a few years ago, in 2005, in a news release when the government announced the seismic mitigation program, they said that more than 700 schools would be upgraded over the next 15 years, or sooner, as part of a $1.5 bil - lion plan. That release at the time also referred to the first 80 schools to be upgraded over the next three years.

The schools were ranked from high to low priority based on independent seismic assessments; 293 schools were identified as high priority. n ow, as of a pril 14 this year, 99 seismic projects have been completed, 25 are under construction, and ten pro- jects are proceeding to construction. i got that from the ministry's website. h owever, in December of 2008 the a uditor General warned that the initial budget set up for this process, the $1.5 billion, was — and this is in his words — "woefully inadequate to finish the job." in response to this, the ministry stated: "The extraordinary cost inflation that we have experienced across the province over the last four years could not have been anticipated." in addition to the seismic mitigation program, the ministry does provide $5 million a year to school districts in seismic-designated zones to complete non- structural work.

My question to the minister is this: what is the status of the Ministry of e ducation seismic mitigation pro - gram in view of the $15 million decline in funding for this area, as in the service plan? This comes at a time when the a uditor General has suggested the original multi-year figure of $1.5 million will not be enough. What's the status here? Hon. G. Abbott: The first portion of the answer is this: we have now either completed or are nearing com - pletion in construction of some 134 seismic upgrade projects.

We have tried to identify the projects of highest concern or highest importance and, as i say, 134 of them are either completed or on their way to completion. [1510] in addition to that, we have undertaken a $25 million program.

This is over and above the current expendi - tures. a bout $680 million has either been invested or has been agreed to for investment in the area of seis - mic upgrade. but in addition to that, we have invested $25 million in looking at the non-fixed features inside of school buildings — for example, lighting fixtures that might, in an earthquake, fall from the ceiling or fall over from a shelf; looking at the shelves themselves; looking at any pieces that might go ajar in the case of a seismic event.

So that's an important piece as well. a lso, particularly having seen the recent seismic events in n ew Zealand, in Japan and in c hina, we are working with the a ssociation of Professional engineers and Geoscientists to look at how we are proceeding in british c olumbia, to see if there are some elements of science that we have learned, for example, from recent events or events since 2005 which might tell us where we should most appropriately be investing next in terms of seismic upgrades.

That work with aP eG is ongoing, and it's very important and may tell us some new things about how to shape or how to shift our investments in the area of seismic upgrading. i guess a final point in terms of the a uditor General. We did appreciate the thoughtful report and the thought- ful recommendations that came from the a uditor

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 17, 2011 7107 General. it should be noted, though, that at the time of that report we were experiencing month-over-month increases — sometimes double-digit increases just on concrete and steel during that period of time. We have seen some of the construction pressure come off — actually, quite a bit of construction pressure — in the last couple, three years, so the opportunities some - what improved there. but nevertheless, we still look forward to working with the a uditor General on mak - ing this project a success. R.

Austin: Does the ministry have a rescheduled timeline as to when they expect all of these projects to be completed? Hon. G. Abbott: one of the things that we'll want to do is to have the updated advice of the a ssociation of Professional engineers and Geoscientists as we an - swer in an appropriate way the important question that's been raised by the opposition critic. The a ssociation of Professional engineers and Geoscientists, which helped to put together that list of 700 back close to a decade now, think that there's been much learned about the science of seismic activity since then.

We will want to ensure that we take the learnings from this most recent review — that that will help to in - form where we make the next series of investments and the timing of that next series of investments. R.

Austin: if, indeed, the original budget that was allocated of $1.5 billion does prove to be inadequate, notwithstanding the fact that there may be new con - struction methods used, as the minister has mentioned in terms of the latest technology…. if, indeed, it is greater than the $1.5 billion, has the ministry figured out, going forward, where that money is going to come from to be able to complete the schools that still have to be done? Hon. G.

Abbott: i think it would be premature to be thinking along those lines. [1515] a s i say, we've committed about $680 million to some of the highest-need projects to this point. We will be working with the a ssociation of Professional engineers and Geoscientists to ensure that, as we move forward in time, we are taking account of all of the latest science and technology around seismic protection. We still have a considerable distance between $680 million and $1.5 billion. i think it would be premature and presumptive to conclude that we would need to look for further dollars.

We will, of course, have a better idea of this after the review is complete and after we take the results of that review and look at the range of projects remaining to be undertaken. R. Austin: i wanted to ask a question in regards to Partnerships b.c . Does the minister envisage a P3 focus in upcoming capital spending initiatives, whether they be aimed at what we've just been talking about, seismic miti- gation, or school refurbishment or even the building of new school construction? if he does, can the minister let us know how these estimates support that process? Hon. G.

Abbott: Partnerships b.c. is engaged on school construction projects over $50 million. They don't get involved under $50 million. The recommenda- tions to date have been either to proceed on traditional construction models or, in some cases, with design- build. There has not been a full P3, as we would know it — as an example, at Surrey Memorial h ospital. R.

Austin: Just continuing on the P3 model. h as the Ministry of e ducation done any studies to see whether this was the most cost-effective way in other countries that perhaps used P3s — to ensure that it is, in fact, cost-effective for the taxpayers in the long run, bear - ing in mind that the government, of course, can borrow money much cheaper than private industry can? Y eah, that's what i'd like to know, please. Hon. G.

Abbott: i was very impressed by the work of Partnerships b.c. in the day when i had the honour of being the h ealth Minister of british c olumbia. i think they've done a tremendous body of work in relation to putting together partnerships for a bbotsford r egional h ospital, k elowna regional, Vernon Jubilee h ospital, a number of projects around Surrey Memorial, as i men - tioned. i've been very impressed by their work there. i am advised that Partnerships b.c.'s advice with re - spect to the school projects over $50 million has been very useful to the ministry and to the school districts in- volved in those kinds of projects. f or whatever reasons, there has not been, to this point, and there may not be, a history of public-private partnerships — in part, i think, because a lot of school districts do have some in-house expertise in respect of construction management. f or that reason, we haven't seen a lot of P3s in that area. but i don't think that i'm in a position to conclude what would be best or other for school projects. i can only advise that Partnerships b.c . has been very useful to us in terms of getting good advice on how to pro - ceed with projects in the school world as well as in the health world. [1520] R.

Austin: in regards to a P3 within the school sys - tem, if there is a project that applies or is applicable in terms of it being over $50 million as a capital cost…. Does the debt that is incurred, that then has to be re - paid over 20 or 30 years or whatever the contract is, stay within the Ministry of e ducation as a capital debt, or

british c olumbia Debates7108 t uesday, May 17, 2011 does it stay within the individual school district that in - curred that project? Hon. G. Abbott: The possibility of undertaking a school construction project through a public-private partnership has never been undertaken. The answer is probably a question best directed to the Minister of finance when he has the opportunity, because this has not been the practice in school construction to under - take it that way. Schools are part of the consolidated financial entity of the province, as well, so that may have some bearing on this. R.

Austin: i'm interested in how this would work with schools, because when it's a bridge, then there can be a toll, and then the money from the toll can go to pay back the construction costs. i'm not quite understanding how this would work with a school. if a school is going to be built, and it's a large school, and it costs over $50 million, i'm not quite sure how this could be done as a P3.

Where would the revenue come in to pay back the partner in a school project? i don't quite see how a P3 would work. but i do realize that under the current law, any capital expenditure that happens in british c olumbia that is in excess of $50 million does, by law, have to use the P3 model. Maybe the minister could ex - plain to me where that revenue source would come back to pay the private partner. Hon. G.

Abbott: Much as i hate to acknowledge it, i think the member's question certainly goes well beyond my expertise and understanding in this area. i don't think that, necessarily, the issue about not having tolls and so on comes into play with schools, because we've built hospitals on a P3 basis. it just is something that has not occurred in the education system or, at least, the capital side of the education system. The question, again, i think might be one better ad - dressed to the finance Minister, who has responsibility for Partnerships b.c.

The member is exploring some theoretical underpinnings to Partnerships b.c. which are beyond our realm of expertise here. R. Austin: i believe that in terms of hospitals, though….

My understanding is that the building is built and then leased back to the ministry, and the cost of that lease each year is what pays back the initial capital costs that the private partner put in. i'm sure as the Minister of h ealth you would have dealt with that. i guess we'll have to assume that that would be the same model used for a school, that in fact, the private partner would be essentially putting up the money up front and then leasing the school back to the school district or to the ministry, depending on who it is that contracts that. but anyway, i'll leave that. i see some nods, so presumably, that's how it would work. is that right?

Hon. G. Abbott: if we were able to do it, yes. R. Austin: o kay, i'm hearing that if they were able to do that, that's how it would work. The Chair: Members, through the c hair. [1525] R. Austin: Sorry, through the c hair. i'd like to ask a question about the shared services pilot project that the ministry is involved with and ask the minister: what's the status of the four-district shared services pilot initiative that was announced last year by your predecessor? Hon. G.

Abbott: in response to the member's ques - tion, the ministry is in a process of exploring and building a business case for a common payroll, a common receivables and expendables system. The four school districts that are involved in that pro - cess of building a business case are Surrey, Vancouver, k amloops and n orth Van. R. Austin: So does this mean that if this pilot pro - ject is proven to be successful, this would then be put in place regionally or provincewide? What does the min - ister envisage in terms of the outcome if this is proved to be successful? is it going to be a regional basis or provincewide?

Hon. G. Abbott: The exploration and construction of the business case will help to point us in the direction of whether it should proceed at all, whether it should pro - ceed on a regional basis or whether it should proceed on an overall provincial basis. That will be among the learnings that will come from the development of the business case. R. Austin: When will the minister be able to report back to this h ouse on this project? When are we actually going to hear what the results are, the business case put forward, so that we can look at that? Hon. G.

Abbott: o ur best estimate would be over the next several months. R. Austin: i'd like to ask a question with regards to fiscal year changes. What's the status of the discussed change in school district fiscal year to align with the province's fiscal year-end? Hon. G. Abbott: i am advised that that is an issue which we periodically examine, but there are no im -

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 17, 2011 7109 mediate or pending plans to adjust the school and fiscal years. R. Austin: a t this point i'm just going to cede the floor to my colleague from the north island. C. Trevena: i'd like to ask a couple of questions about school district 72. The school board is actually meeting this evening to discuss its budget, and it looks like there are going to be some quite significant cuts to it.

They're going to be reducing services by about $841,000 and will have to take about $188,000 from their contingency fund. it is going to mean a reduction in the number of teachers, support staff and administrators. i wondered if the minister could just give a bit of an explanation about how he perceives it to be good for the school district that they have to keep dipping into their contingency funds to make sure that they can keep on operating. [1530] Hon. G.

Abbott: i thank the member for her ques - tion. in quickly reviewing school district 72, c ampbell r iver, we in our experience have found that school dis - trict 72 is a very well managed school district. We're very confident of the ability of the school board to make ap - propriate decisions to deal with their challenges, and they do have some challenges. They have seen since 2000-2001, when they had an enrolment of 7,093, a drop in enrolment. it's down now around 5,200 from just over 7,000. They've had some pretty substantial challenges to deal with in respect of that.

Despite that substantial drop in enrolment, their operating funding has moved from $46.781 million in 2000-2001 to just over $49 million now — $49,070,589. The per-pupil has also moved up, and this is an at - tempt to try to cushion or protect school district 72 from that very compelling challenge of declining stu - dent enrolment. We have seen the per-pupil figure for that district move from $6,595 in 2000-2001 to an esti - mated $9,100 this year — just over $9,100 per student. That will be helpful, but as the member rightly notes, it still leaves some challenges for the district.

We are confident, though, in this district's ability to manage their challenges. i am pleased to say that not - withstanding the challenges they've had for actually every year through the past decade, they have had sur - plus budgets. in the most recent, $2.482 million was their surplus, and they've been running surpluses of $3 million, $4 million, $4 million, $3 million and $2 mil - lion on average a year. These are trustees and managers who are doing a very good job of managing the situation that they have. C.

Trevena: i thank the minister for his response. i'm pleased that he recognizes school district 72 as be - ing such a good school district. i think it is a very well recognized school district. They do very innovative work — not just the board in its governance style but the teachers. e veryone really is doing the best job they can. i'm very fortunate that i actually have three very in- novative and three very different school districts in my constituency, with 84 and 85.

Going back to the issue of funding for school district 72, the school district is in some ways lucky that it has a contingency fund it can dip into. it is taking, as i men - tioned, $188,500 from the contingency. [1535] i'd like to ask the minister for a bit of clarification.

We talk about the increase in per-pupil funding, but i have here a statement from the chair of the school district, Ms. h elen Moats, who says in the latest newsletter of the school district: "a lthough per-pupil funding from the Ministry of e ducation has increased for 2011-2012, our overall funding is not sufficient to cover increasing costs, such as pension and benefit in - creases, fuel and utilities cost increases, and simple inflation." So i just wondered, literally, how to square the circle.

Y es, per-pupil funding has gone up, but it still doesn't cover all the, if you'd like to say, non-classroom costs. it's the cost of running the schools and paying the salar - ies and paying the pensions. Hon. G.

Abbott: a gain, we appreciate the good work that is undertaken at school district 72. i wasn't im - mediately aware of any expressed concerns that they had about the adequacy or inadequacy of the funding. a fter now several years as a h ealth Minister and as a Minister of e ducation, i certainly am looking forward to the day when i receive correspondence from a health authority or a school district which indicates that their funding is more than adequate and they're going to be returning some to the government.

That is something that i'm still looking forward to. of course, we don't expect them to send dollars back when they have a surplus, as school district 72 has had over the past decade. a gain, just so we're clear, if they are utilizing a portion of their contingency, we don't view that as a bad thing. When the a uditor General looked at school districts across the province and measured the surplus cash they had or cash on hand they had, he indicated that gener - ally it would be a positive thing for those on-hand cash surpluses to be reduced over time.

So if a school district on a sustainable basis is utiliz - ing, on a year-to-year basis, a portion of a contingency and then potentially restoring it or not restoring it year over year, that's not necessarily a bad thing. if districts are managing their funds well and sustainably, it can be a positive thing. i think, based on the record that i see for school district 72, they're doing a very good job of

british c olumbia Debates7110 t uesday, May 17, 2011 managing their cash and other funds to effectively pro - vide education. a gain, the fact that they've said that they'd like to have more dollars would probably line them up with 59 other school districts. C. Trevena: Thank you, Minister. i don't think, how - ever, the minister actually answered my question, which is trying to square the circle of saying that it's not just that we don't have enough funding. The chair of the school board, i believe, has written to the minister twice in this last year about the lack of funding.

What she is saying — and very measured — is that "our overall funding is not sufficient to cover increasing costs, such as pension and benefit increases, fuel and utilities cost increases, and simple inflation." effectively, what the chair of the school board is saying is: "We are supposed to be running an education system to the benefit of all our children. We have this discussion regularly. it's the future of our province. We don't have enough money to do it.

We have to…." i mean, here it's not just going into the contingency funds. it's quite outright cutting out teachers, cutting support staff and cutting administration. [1540] if these people that both sides of the h ouse are prais- ing very fulsomely, and i think quite rightly, are saying, "We haven't got the money to do it," i would like to hear what the minister's response is. Hon. G.

Abbott: The last thing i'd ever want to be in these estimates is argumentative, but i'm afraid that i'm not finding the member's argument compelling here. i want to begin with this: respect that the school district has done a very good job of managing their re - sources. We respect that. The fact that school districts will indicate to us that they'd like more money is not a surprise. That is something that we periodically see.

The only mildly provocative thing i would say about the 60 school districts is i hope they will embrace educational reform and the discussion around that with the same en- thusiasm with which they embrace the frequent advice to the ministry that they need more money. if we look at the accumulated operating surplus or deficit funding of school district 72, one would note, for example, that in 2001, when our government took office, school district 72 had an accumulated operating fund surplus of $659,713.

That grew year over year consistently through 2007, when the accumulated operating surplus peaked out at $4,239,740. it remained just over $4 million in 2008, and as i think is appropriate, given the a uditor General's advice around this, we still see in 2010 an ac - cumulated operating surplus of $2,482,661. if the school district feels that they need to reduce that a little bit more to sustain funding for programs for 2011-2012, we don't have an objection to that. but the reason why they have been able to continue to enjoy an accumulated operating fund surplus, notwithstanding the fact that they have dropped almost 1,700 students over that period, is because we have provided funding protection year over year which protected them from year-over-year loss of dollars — notwithstanding that every year the number of students in the system has gone down. it's fascinating. i never tire of debating this important issue of school funding. but i do hope at some point that we have an equally relishing conversation about educa - tional reform, because i find it even more fascinating than persistent complaints about the level of funding.

C.

Trevena: i would love to have a discussion about education reform. i think there are lots of great po - tentials, and i think that we have the resources in this province to really revolutionize the way that we do edu- cation and that our children can learn. i think it would be a really fascinating discussion. i think that the present framework with the present funding model is not the best place to start the educa - tion reform. i think you have to have more stability of funding, and one of the things that the school trustees have been saying and have been saying publicly is that they do need more stable funding. i will press on, because i do know that i have col - leagues who'd like to ask other questions. i'd like to move very briefly — hopefully we can deal with this in just the one question — to all-day kindergarten. [1545] School district 72 again held back from introducing all-day kindergarten until they could introduce it right across the district.

They didn't do it half-and-half. i know that the ministry has been putting out a number of news releases about the beneficence of its supply of school portables. i wanted to know whether the min - istry would be providing the ongoing, current costs for the upkeep and the running of those portables once they are in the school facilities. Hon. G. Abbott: i thank the member for her question with respect to incremental investments to support, from a capital perspective, the full-day kindergarten. in school district 72, c ampbell r iver, there will be two classroom conversions — that is, from other uses.

There will be an addition of nine new modular classrooms. The folks who build the modular classrooms take great um - brage or offence at them being categorized as portables because they are built to a much higher standard — a much longer life and much more use of glass and inter - ior finishings and so on — than one would find typically in a portable. So the nine new modular classrooms, and there will be an addition of two new classrooms — i presume on traditional build — at r ipple r ock e lementary.

british c olumbia Debatest uesday, May 17, 2011 7111 C. Trevena: i thank the minister for that. because the education system is expanding with the introduction of all-day kindergarten, we're going to get an increased number of students thr

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0517pm-04
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0517pm 04
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	6100512be68c5b3043cfcc175dd679390b826bc5

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