Manitoba Hansard — 10 June 1992 (Sitting 83, 35th Legislature, 3rd Session)

35-3-83

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session -Thirty-Fifth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS (HANSARD) 39-40 Elizabeth II Published under the authority of The Honourable Denis C. Rocan Speaker VOL. XLI No. 83 • 1 :30 p.m., WEDNESDAY, JUNE 10, 1992 Printed by the Office of the 0.-ns Printer. Province of Manitoba ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Thirty-Fifth Legislature Members, Constituencies and Political Affiliation NAME ALCOCK, Reg ASHTON , Steve BARREn, Becky CARSTAIRS, Sharon CERILLI, Marianne CHEEMA, Guizar CHOMIAK, Dave CONNERY, Edward CUMMINGS, Glen, Hon. DACQUAY, Louise DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary DOWNEY, James, Hon. DRIED GER, Albert, Hon. DUCHARM E, Gerry, Hon. EDWARDS, Paul ENNS, Harry, Hon. ERNST, Jim, Hon. EVANS, Ciif EVANS, Leonard S. FILMON, Gary, Hon. FINDLAY, Glen, Hon. FRIESEN, Jean GAUDRY, Neil GILLESHAMMER, Harold , Hon. HARPER, Elijah HELWER, Edward R.

HICKES, George LAMOUREUX, Kevin LATHLIN, Oscar LAURENDEAU, Marcel MALOWAY, Jim MANNESS, Clayton, Hon. MARTINDALE, Doug McALPINE, Gerry McCRAE, James, Hon. MciNTO SH, Linda, Hon. MITCHELSON, Bonnie, Hon. NEUFELD, Harold ORCHAR D, Donald, Hon. PENNER, Jack PLOHMAN, John PRAZN IK, Darren, Hon. REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack RENDER, Shirley ROCAN, Denis, Hon. ROSE, Bob SANTOS, Conrad STEFANSON, Eric, Hon. STORIE, Jerry SVEINSON, Ben VODREY, Ros emary, Hon. WASYL YCIA-LEIS, Judy WOWCHUK, Rosann CONSTITUENCY Osborne Thompson Wellington River Heights Radisson The Maples Kildonan Portage Ia Prairie Ste.

Rose Seine River Roblin- Russell Selkirk Concordia Arthur-Virden Steinbach Riel St. James Lakeside Charleswood Interlake Brandon East Tuxedo Springfield Wolseley St. BonHace Minnedosa Rupertsland Gimli Point Douglas Inkster The Pas St. Norbert Elmwood Morris Burrows Sturgeon Creek Brandon West Assiniboia River East Rossmere Pembina Emerson Dauphin Lac du Bonnet Transcona Niakwa St. Vital Gladstone Turtle Mountain Broadway Kirkfield Park Ain Aon La Verendrye Fort Garry St.

Johns Swan River PARTY Liberal NDP NDP Liberal NDP Liberal NDP PC PC PC PC NDP NDP PC PC PC Liberal PC PC NDP NDP PC PC NDP Liberal PC NDP PC NDP Liberal NDP PC NDP PC NDP PC PC PC PC PC PC PC NDP PC NDP PC PC PC PC NDP PC NDP PC PC NDP NDP

4497 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA VVednesday,June10,1992 The House met at 1 :30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS PRESENTING PETITIONS Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the petition of Doug Burnett, Della Burnett, Jean Burnett and others requesting the gov ernment consider reviewing the funding of the Brandon General Hospital to avoid layoffs and cutbacks to vital services. READING AND RECEIVING PETITIONS Mr. Speaker: I have reviewed the petition of the honourable Leader of the Second Opposition (Mrs. Carstairs).

It complies with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

The petition of the undersigned residents of the Province of Manitoba humbly sheweth that: WHERE AS the Province of Manitoba announced that it would establish an Office of the Children's Advocate in Its most recent throne speech and allocated funds for this Office in its March '92 budget; and WHER EAS the Kimelman Report (1983), the Abori ginal Justice Inquiry (1991) and the Suche Report (1 992) recommen ded that the province establish such an office reporting directly to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, in a manner similar to that of the Office of the Ombudsman; and

WHEREAS pursuant to the Child and Family Services Act Standards, the agency worker is to be the advocate for a child in care; and

WHEREAS there is a major concern that child welfare workers, due to their vested interest as employees within the service system, cannot perform an independent advocacy rol e; and

WHEREAS pure advocacy will only be obtained through an independent and external agency; and

WHEREAS the Minister of Family Services (Mr. Gill eshammer) has unsatisfactorily dealt with complaints lodged against child welfare agencies; and

now THEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba strongly urge the provincial go vernment to consider establishing an Office of the Children's Advocate which will be independent of cabinet and report directly to the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba. *** I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member for Brandon East (Mr. Leonard Evans). It complies with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules (by leave). Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba, humbly sheweth that: The Brandon General Hospital is the major health care institution for southwestern Manitoba; and The citizens of Brandon and southwestern Manitoba are deeply concerned and disturbed about the downsizing of the hospital and view it as a threat to the quality of health care in the region ; and The Manitoba gove rnment has chosen not to review the current budget to ensure that cutbacks to vital services do not occur; and The administration of the hospital has been forced to take drastic measures including the elimination of the Palliative Care Unit and gynecological wards, along with the layoff of over 30 staff, mainly licensed practical nurses, to cope with a funding shortfall of over $1.3 million; and WHEREF ORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislature of the Province of Manitoba may be pleased to request that the gove rnment of Manitoba consider reviewing the funding of the Brandon General Hospital . *** I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member for Inkster (Mr.

Lamour eux). It com plies with the privileges and practices of the House and com plies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read? The petition of the undersigned residents of the province of Manitoba, humbly sheweth that:

4498 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MAN ITOBA June 10 , 1992 WHE REAS the Manitoba Heritage Federation has received and processed nearly 1 ,200 grant applications and awarded and monitored almost 700 grants; and WHERE AS 300 different organizations in 98 different comm unities representing every region of the province have received grants through the efforts of the Manitoba Heritage Federation; and WHERE AS the gove rnment has taken away the granting author ity of the Manitoba Heritag e Federation and now plans to control the distributio n of heritage grants; and WHERE AS this action appears to represent the politicization of the heritage granting process; and WH ERE AS it is unclear as to wha t the government's real commitment is to funding heritage in the prov ince; and WHERE AS the Board of the Heritage Federatio n is composed of urban and rural members which represents a wealth of heritage experience from a ll over the province; and WHERE AS this move will have a critical impact on the heritage community throughout the provinc e WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba strongly urge the provincial gove rnment to reconsider its decisio n and return the Manitoba Heritage Federation's granting authority. • (1 335) ••• I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member for The Pas (Mr.

Lathlin), and it complie s with the privileges and practices of the House a nd complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

The petition of the undersigned citizens of the province of Manitoba humbly sheweth: THAT the Aboriginal Justice Inquiry was launched in April of 1988 to conduct an examination of the relationship between the justice system and aboriginal peop le; and The AJI delivered its report in August of 1991 and concluded that the justice system has been a massive failure for aboriginal peopl e; and The AJI report endorsed the inherent right of abor igina l self-government and the right of aboriginal comm unities to establish an aborigin al justice syste'!l; and The Canadian Bar Assoc iation, The Law Reform Commission of Canada, among many others, also recom mend both aboriginal self-go vernment and a separate and parallel justice system; and On January 28, 1992, five months after releasing the report, the provincial gove rnment announced it was not prepared to proceed with the majority of the recommendatio ns; and Despite the All-Party Task Force Report which endorsed aboriginal self-go vernment, the pro vincial gove rnment now rejects a separate and parallel justice system, an Aboriginal Justice Commis sion and many other key recommendations which are solely within pro vincial jurisdiction .

WHEREF ORE you r petitioners humbly pray that the Legislature of the Province of Manitoba may be pleased to request that the govern ment of Manitoba sho w a strong com mi tm ent to aborigi nal self-government by considering reversing its position on the AJ I by su ppor ting the recomm endations within Its jurisdiction and implementing a separate and parallel justice system. ••• I have reviewed the petition of the honourable member for Wolse ley (Ms. Friesen), and it complies with the privileges and practices of the House and complies with the rules. Is it the will of the House to have the petition read?

The petition of the undersigned citizens of the pro vince of Manitoba humbly sheweth that: WHERE AS the Dutch elm disease control program is of primary importance to the protection of the city's many elm trees; and

WHEREAS the Minister of Natural Resources himself stated that, "It is vital that we cont inue our active fight against Dutch elm disease in Manitoba, w and

WHEREAS, despite that verbal commi tment, the government of Manitoba has cut its funding to the city's OED control progra m by half of the 1990 level, a move that will jeo pardize the sur vival of Winnipeg's elm trees. WHEREFORE your petitioners humbly pray that the gove rnment of Manitoba may be pleased to request the Minister of Natural Resources (Mr. Enns) to consider resto ring the full funding of the Dutch elm disease control program to the previous level of 1990.

June 10 , 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MAN ITOBA 4499 As in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray. •

(1340) PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES Mr. Jack Penner (Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources): Mr. Speaker, I would like to present the Sixth Report of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources. Mr. Clerk (William Remn ant): Your Standing Committee on Pub lic Utilities and Natu ral Resources presents the following as its Sixth Report. Your Committee met on Tuesday, June 9, 1992, at 1 0 a.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building to consider bills referred. At that meeting, your Committee elected Mr. Penner as Chairperson.

Your Committee heard representation on Bill 53, The Dangerous Goods Handling and Transportation Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur Ia manutention et le transport des merchandises dangereuses, as follows: Mr. Wayne Nelly, Manitoba Environmental Council Mr. and Mrs. Paul and Aileen Bergan, Private Citizens Mr. Douglas Grantham, Town of Stonewall Your Committee has considered: Bill 10, The Manitoba Hydro Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur !'Hydro-Manitoba Bill 53, The Dangerous Goods Handling and Transportation Amendment Act; Loi modifiant Ia

Loi sur Ia manutention et le transport des merchandises dangereuses and has agreed to report the same without amendment. All of which is respectfully submitted. Mr. Penner: I move, seconded by the honourable member for St. Vital (Mrs. Render), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to Oral Questions, may I direct the attention of honourable members to the gallery, where we have with us this afternoon from the Southwood School fifty-eight Grade 5 students. They are under the direction of Mr. Rick Goerzen.

This school is located in the constituency of the honourable Minister of Highways and Transportation (Mr. Driedger). Also this afternoon, from the Garden Grove School, we have seventy-five Grade 5 students. They are under the direction of Mr. Dave Boult. This school is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux). On behalf of all honourable members, I would like to welcome you here this afternoon. ORAL QUESTION PERIOD Constitutional Proposal Federal Referendum Mr. Gary Doer (Leeder of the Opposition): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the First Minister.

Over the last few weeks and escalating today, the federal government is threatening to "go it alone" in terms of the Constitution of the country. The federal government has indeed passed plebiscite legislation last week in the House of Commons. It is not binding insofar as it is not referendum legislation, but the plebiscite legislation allows the federal government to unilaterally set the question. It has absolutely no spending limits insofar as there are no limits on committees that can be participating in the debate and also allows for unlimited spending and participation of provinces.

My question to the Premier is: Does he have a contingency plan on this possible option of the federal government? Secondly, will he include in any contingency plan on this issue the possibility of having an all-party, nonpartisan approach to any question that would be asked to Manitobans and an all-party approach to having town hall factual meetings on any question that may be put, rather than having a kind of massive advertising campaign and not a lot of factual information to Manitobans? •

(1345) Hon. Gary Fllmon (Premier): Well, Mr. Speaker, there seems to be a number of contradictions in the question of the Leader of the Opposition. Firstly, of course, he knows that the question of a referendum is one that was considered by the all-party Manitoba Legislature task force on the Constitution, and that task force expressed serious and grave concerns about the holding of a referendum, about all of the various things that go into a referendum as to whether or not the question

4500 LEGISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MANITOBA June 10 , 1992 is one that is clear in the minds of the people who are responding to that referendum, whether or not the matter becom es a question of a vote on the popularity of the government of the day, either federally or provincially, whether or not there is clear and accurate information about the issues that are at stake and all of that.

All of those things say that referenda are probably for a whole host of reasons not a very good way of necessarily achieving major constitutional change that is going to cha nge the way in which this country is organized and ordered on a constitutional basis for a long time In the future. The referendum question is a difficult one.

I know that in the course of even the last 48 hours I have had some discussions with other First Ministe rs about what position I might take as a Premier with respect to a Constitution, whether or not I believed it was appropriate for First Ministers to go out and campaign for or against. Of course, the difficulty with it is that one does not know what the nature of the question might be. One does not know what the nature of the proposition might be.

I do say this, that I think that it would be important for a referendum to be done on a nonpartisan basis , that as much as possible I would hope that if there were a referendum, that people would be given as accurate information as poss ible, and we would try and keep politics out of it, that if the intention is truly to consult the people, that we would do everything possible to make that consultation a fair, honest and open consultation. Mr. Doer: Mr.

Speaker, I would again offer to the Premier our participation in a nonpartisan approach to any federal plebiscite that may be developed, to help to take an all-party, nonpartisan approach to factual information, rather than the massiv e advertising that we may have to contemplate in the federal government's so-called strategy. In the federal legislation that was passed last week in the House of Commons, there is absolutely no requirement that the federal government release results by province.

In other words, they may say to Canadians, it is 60 percent this way and 40 percent that way, which may cause great difficulty for the smaller provinces, Manitoba being one of them, in terms of what are the specific results in our province based on the specific merit of any questio n that may or may not be asked. 1 would ask the Premier, in his consultations with other Premiers over the last 48 hours, have they discussed that inadequacy of the federal legislation, and have they proposed anything to the Prime Minister, or has the Premier talked to the Prime Minister about at least allowing people in each province to have the resu lts of the plebiscite, so that we could have a nonmanipulative result in terms of the public knowing exactly how each of us may or may not have voted across the country?

Mr. Fllmon: Firstly, I have not talked to the Prime Minister about it. But again, all the leade r of the Opposition is doing is pointing out all the reasons why a referendum is not a very exact scienc e and not a very fair and adequate way of people making decisions. Obviously, if no information was made available as to what the views were of the people of this particular province, then we as a legislature ultimately have to vote upon and decide upon any proposition wit h resp ect to a constitutional amendment af ter our own series of public consultations and discussions.

We would not be able to take any information of value out of that referendum. There are many, many difficulties with that prospective answer, and I just say that at this point, I would hope that it does not come to a national referendum, that whatever matters are going to be decided upon will be decided upon by virtue of the ongoing consultations that would lead eventually to a process that we have set forward in the rules of our legislature. Timetable Mr.

Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition): The Premier has indicated that his first option is to get a proposal that would be put forward in a way that is consistent with the rules of this legislature. I would ask the Premier, we have talked before about this issue, but certainly it has been a concern of Manitobans that we not have a fast pace in any discussions.

If there is a proposal that comes forward-and we hope there is; we hope there is a consensus; I know the Premier and I have talked about this issue before-would he publicly agree that it would not be a quick, fast pace into this Legislature, but rather a pace that takes into consideration the timi ng of most Manitobans' holidays, which is July, so that they will be able to look at the merit of this proposal in, again, a very, very dispassionate and nonquick way?

June 10 , 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MAN ITOBA 4501 Hon. Gary Fllmon (Premier ): I think this government has demonstrated, Mr. Speaker, that when we have a requirement for proper and thorough analysis and scrutiny, public consultation and so on-we talked about It in another form yesterday with respect to the Clean Environment Commission review of Conawapa and the transmission lines-we are not going to ramrod something through. That is our bottom line. We believe that consultation is there for the purpose of ensuring that the public is consulted and that they are given adequate time and proper circumstances under which to make their views known. *

(1350) School Boards Cabinet Interference Ms. Rosann Wowchuk (Swan River): Mr. Speaker, my questio n is to the Minister of Education. On numerous occas ions, Mr. Speaker, this minister has said that school boards are independent bodies and that she is not prepared to influence decisions which fall under their jurisdiction. I want to ask the minister: Does she feel that these same guidelines apply to her cabinet colleagues and that they should not try to influence the decision making of school boards? Hon.

Rosemary Vodrey (Minister of Education and Training): The member really has not been very specific in her question, and in fact the position remains, as I have stated in this House, school boards do have electe d officials. They are responsible for their decision making, and I do not see any change. School Boards Cabinet Interference Ms. Ro sann Wowch uk (Swan River): My supplementary is to the Premier. Does the Premier feels It is appropriate that the Minister of Rural Development (Mr.

Derkach) has contacted the chairman of the Pelly Trail School Division and attempted to influence budgetary and staffing decisions? Hon. Gary Fllmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, I will not accept the

preamble of the member's question without further clarification. Obviously, we have had some experience in this House with people alleging certain things from the opposition benches. I will certainly just take her question as advice. Ms. Wowchuk: Mr. Speaker, this is a very serious matter, and I want to ask the Premier if he will investigate this matter, and if he finds that the Minister of Rural Development (Mr. Derkach) has interfered in the board's decision and has applied pressure to the board, will he ask for the minister's resignation? Mr.

Fllmon: I make It a practice, even with my friends in the media, not to answer hypothetical questions. I certainly would not answer a hypothetical question from a member of the Legislature who, from time to time, has not gotten her facts straight. Independent Living Program Statistics Mrs. Sharon Carstalrs (Leader of the Second Opposition): Mr. Speaker, today, we learned about the inappropriate placement of a teenager in an independent living situation , a placement that has become all too common for many youngsters in the province of Manitoba.

I would like to ask the Minister of Family Services if he can tell this House today how many youngsters under the age of 18 are in independent living environment situations, and what is the youngest age of anyone being placed in that kind of a living arrangement in the province of Manitoba? Hon. Harold Gllleshammer (Minister of Family Services): Mr. Speaker, I do not have that kind of information with me in the House today, but I would be pleased to ask departmental staff to be in touch with agencies to compile that sort of information.

I would just remind the honourable member that the agencies throughout the province are responsible for the placing of young people in foster situations. In some cases, with older teenagers, there are a few Independent living situations. I would also caution the member to accept as fact some of the information which she reads in the newspaper. I think It is important that perhaps a little more research is done with some of the information the agency is able to provide.

With the limited information in the paper today, alii would say is that there is further information which sometimes puts a better light on the situation.

4502 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MAN ITOBA June 1 0, 1992 Cost Effectiveness Mrs. Sharon Carstalrs (Leader of the Second Opposition): What is very clear from our research is that there are some youngsters who have been in stable foster families who, when they tum the age of 16, are told by the agencies they must leave those foster families and move into independent living arrangements because it is cost effective for the Province of Manitoba. Will the Minister of Family Services tell this House why the interests of the child come second to budgetary considerations of this department? *

(1355) Hon. Harold Gllleshammer (Minister of Family Services): Agencies are given the authority by government to offer child and family services in the community. We have a variety of agencies across the province doing that with boards, executive directors and senior staff who make decisions. In all of my discussions with any of the agencies, the prime concern is the best interests of the child. Historically, there have been different arrangements made with young people who come into care, depending on the geographical area where the child is located; also, on the experience of that particular agency.

I am confident in the deliberations by the board and the carrying out of policy by the very dedicated staff we have in those agencies, that they have the best interests of the child in mind. Mrs. Carstalrs: But most of the independent living arrangements are in the city of Winnipeg, and this particular minister made sure there were not independent boards making those decisions in the city of Winnipeg. This has become a departmental matter. This is a departmental decision-making matter.

Can the minister explain to the House why it is departmental rules that state that there is not funding for 16-year-olds within foster family situations and that some of them have been approached on their 16th birthday to move out of the foster parent situation and into an independent living situation? Mr. Gllleshammer: Those decisions are made by the agencies which are involved with those children. Obviously, the long-term goal in any situation with children is to have them living within their own family.

In other cases, they are placed in suitable foster homes, and we have a few cases where children are in independent living situations where that decision has been made by the professional staff of the agency. Workers Compensation Board Family Entitlements Mr. Daryl Reid (Transcona): Wrth the tragic and preventable event that occ urred on April 23, 1992, a family lost a husband, a father and a provider. This family has endured many hardships In the over four-and-a-half-year struggle with the Workers Compensation Board. My question is for the minister responsible for the Workers Compensation Board.

Will the minister indicate for the benefit of the family what the policy is that will provide for this family's financial security in the future? Hon. Darren Praznlk (Minister responsible for and charged with the admlnlstraUon of The Workers Compensation Act): As the member may be aware, the particular claimant involved is a claimant who is on the old system of benefits, not under the new system which was put into place by this administration effective January 1 of 1992. I hear members opposite talk about reduction.

I would point out that the benefit package for claimants, some of the problems that were in the old package, this government fixed and improved without the support of members opposite. I would indicate very clearly, depending on the results of the Coroner's inquest and determinations of cause related to this particular incident, that the family involved has the ability to file an appropriate claim with the WCB which I understand has not been done to date, and it will have to work itself through the system. Mr.

Reid: It has been six weeks since the event occu rred, and this family has obviously endured many hardships, including the financial situation. When will the family be notified-because I think it is appropriate-that they will be receiving some financial security entitlement, or that they are entitled to that from the minister's department? Mr. Praznlk: Mr. Speaker, I think the member opposite should do a little work on how the system works because first of all, it is not the department. It is an independent agency. That is No. 1.

June 1 0, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MAN ITOBA 4503 Secondly, as I just clearly indicated, the widow of the individual involved has not filed a claim. She has been in touch with staff of the WCB who I understand made her aware of that option, and she has not yet chosen to file. If the member is advising that individual or assisting them, then I would hope that he would have her pursue that matter rather than raising it in the House as if it is someone else's responsibility. She is aware. It is her choice as to whether or not she files a claim. I would hope the member would do a little work and investigate what options are available and advise the person appropriately. *

(1400) Mr. Reid: The minister should be aware that the system is not working, Mr. Speaker. My question is for the same minister. Why should this family have to apply? Why is it not automatic? Why has there been a delay in notifying the family of any decision or any benefit entitlement? Mr. Praznlk: Mr. Speaker, I can tell the member that the original claim was for an injury. The benefit entitlements have to do with a fatality under which the family would be able to apply. The staff from the Compensation Board were in touch with the family shortly after the incident.

The people from the family, the widow involved, are aware that she has to file a claim for fatality benefits. That claim will have to be adjudicated on the facts. I am sure the member opposite is not suggesting to this House that the Workers Compensation Board or any other agency can issue benefits, pay benefits, without a proper application made for those benefits or a proper adjudication. That is the kind of attitude that got the Workers Compensation Board into the deep trouble it was in over the years, and it is the kind of problem that Ontario is now facing and why they are in such a mess.

Multlcuhural Legislation Consultations Ms. Marianne Cerllll (Radisson): Mr. Speaker, the Manitoba Intercultural Council is intended to be a community-based, democratically elected body representative of our multicultural make-up. They have the legislative mandate to advise government on policy issues. One would think it would be the government's link to the community when developing legislation like the multicultural act.

I want to ask the Minister responsible for Multiculturalism to give us some assurance thatthey were properly consulted and how this could be so when they were still being questioned on their recommendations on May 30. It was reported on June 5, and we know that at that time, the act was already printed. Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister responsible for Multiculturalism): Mr. Speaker, in fact, it was my first consultation meeting as a result of the whole process that was with the Manitoba Intercultural Council on determining what should be put in the legislation.

I met with all of the other umbrella organizations within the community and indeed with other members, individuals from many of the ethnic communities. As a result of those consultations, I know the whole community and even members opposite knew that our commitment was to introduce a piece of legislation this session. So I tully expect that all members of the community, including the Manitoba Intercultural Council, were aware that there would be legislation brought in. Manitoba Intercul tural Council Review Ms. Marianne Cerllll (R adisson): What is interesting, Mr.

Speaker, is that a number of the recommendations are not found in the act. My question for the same minister: Why is the Intercultural Council being reviewed at this time? Why were they only informed of this review as the minister was announcing the act? Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister responsible for Multiculturalism): Mr.

Speaker, as a result of the extensive consultation process that we did and that I di d, as minister, before the act was introduced-and as we went around the table with all members of the Manitoba Intercultural Council and I asked them what amendments they would like to see to MIC's act, I got a different opinion from each and every one of those members around the table. Mr. Speaker, I also got varied opinions from many, many members of the community with no consensus whatsoever on what amendments should be made to The Manitoba Intercultural Council Act.

Therefore, as a result of that, we have announced that an impartial and very unbiased nonpartisan consultant in fact would interview members of the

4504 LEGISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA June 1 0, 1992 comm unity, including MIC, to determine what amendments we could bring in next session. Multicultural Legislation JustHicatlon Ms. Marianne Cerllll (Radisson): Mr. Speaker, the report from MIC here is dated June 5. Why are yo u bringing in the multicultural act before the review of MIC, and how can you explain that the recom mendations should not be included in the act? Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister responsible for Multlculturlsm): Mr. Speaker, the Manitoba Intercultural Council already has a piece of legislation.

The community has been waiting since the NDP were in government for a piece of legislation and a multicultural policy. Mr. Speaker, we have lived up to those commitments, and the community is waiting for a piece of leg is lation that will confirm th is gove rnment's commitment to multiculturalism. I am pleased and proud that we were able to introduce that, and I would encourage members opposite to su ppor t that legi slation and ensure that the commu nity is getting the treatment that it deserves. Manitoba Intercultural Council Govemmenfs Intention Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Mr.

Speaker, the minister, on a number of occa sions, told myself, as the critic for Multiculturalism, that the act of MIC was being looked at and in fact indicated to myseH when I brought forward amendments that she was looking at incorporating MIC into the multicultural act. The minister has not included MIC which is the greatest flaw that this piece of legislation has. The minister says that she is going to be consulting to find out what is going to be happening with MIC.

Why has the minister included the Multicultural Grants Advisory Council in the act when she currently has a consultant examining the role of MIC which could recom mend that MIC have its funding authority returned? Point of Order Hon. Clayton Manness (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, it is my intention to call this bill for second reading, and it anticipates a debate. The question is out of order. I am serving no tice, Mr. Speaker, that the bill will be called today, and therefore the question is out of order. Mr. Lamoureux: On the same point of or der, Mr.

Speaker, we in opposition have no idea what the government is going to be calling, and because they feei- Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. I had called the honourable member for Inkster to order, and I would like to remind the honourable member for Inkster, when the Speaker is standing and when he does call or der, that the member should take his place. Now, the honourable member for Inkster, all your remarks that were said after I had called order are entirely off the record . Mr.

Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader): On the same point of orde r, Mr. �R�Mlker, Beauchesne is fairly clear in terms of questions not anticipating debates scheduled for the day. There is a different set of rules in terms of the House of Commons from our current rules. We do not know when the debate is scheduled on that bill. I would suggest for that reason, while the government House leader has a point in terms of the general rule, this does not apply in this particular case, and questions on the multiculturalism act would be in order. Mr.

Speaker: On the point of order raised, I had no knowledge at the time that the honourable member for Inkster did put his question that he was anticipating a debate. Now we have been inform ed by the honourable gove rnment House leader that this matter will be before the House this afternoon. Therefore , the honourable member's question is anticipating a debate and, therefore , is out of order. *** Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for Inkster, if you would like to rephrase your question , please. Mr.Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, four questions have been asked. The minister- [interjection] three times.

The first three questions of the- Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Is the honourable member for Inkster challenging my ruling? I have advised the honourable member for Inkster that he could rephrase his question.

June 10 , 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MANITOBA 4505 The honourable member for Inkster, if you would like to rephrase your question. Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, my question to the Mini ster of Multicultur alism is: What is the gove rnmen t's intention with the Man itoba Intercultural Council? What is the future for MIC? Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister responsible for Multiculturalism): I think our intentions are quite clear, and they have been through our term in office in gove rnment. We have made many positive mo ves on mul ticulturali sm , in the area of multiculturalism.

I could list many that have happened with the introduction of Manitoba's first-ever policy for a multicultural society that we introduced, the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and I introduced. As a result of that policy, we made four commitments. With the introduction of the multicultural act, Mr. Speaker, we have li ved up to thos e fo ur comr,;�ments over the last four years. *

(1410) Mr. Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, I am only aware of negative things that this minister has done to the Manitoba Intercultural Council. I do not know what she is talking about. My question to the minister specifically is: What positive thing has she done to MIC? Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr. Speaker, there was an

article in the paper just last week or so. I think the Leader of the official oppos ition's picture was at the top of the article. In fact, it was an

article dealing with combatting racism. There was a direct quote from Sam Koshy who is the executive director of MIC, and I will share it with the members opposite because it says that this government is a gove rnment that has done more for multiculturalism than any other go vernment. Mr. Lamoureux: The minister makes reference to racism. I ask the minister: How can she make that statement when in fact when it came to combatting racism, as MIC has said, she has failed- Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr.

Speaker, if the member for Inkster could remain a little calm instead of getting quite so hysterical when he asks his questions, I could indicate to him that it was not me, as minister, who was saying that. It was a direct quote from the executive director of the Manitoba Intercultural Council. I will share that information with the member for Inkster and with all members of the Legislature so, in fact, they can see and read first-hand what the community is saying about the commitment of this gove rnment. Independent Living Program Accommodation Selection Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): Mr.

Speaker, as stated by the liberal Leader (Mrs. Carstairs) today, we were all shocked yester day-or today, actually-to read about the conditi ons of a young man who was in an independent living program of a Winnipeg Child & Family Services agency. He was forced to live in a filthy two-room apartment in conditions that no one of us would like to see anyone we knew live in.

Today, we learn that while social workers usually search for accom modations with clients and that often a place is found with funds available, just as often, these vulnerable young people, who are attempting to work out their lives, are forced to live in these dreadful surrou ndings. My question to the Minister of Family Services is: Why are social workers and public health officials not obli gated to go with the young person when they are searching for accommodation, who are attempting to live independently and are attempting to-- Mr. Speaker: Or der, please. The honourable member has put her question . Hon.

Harold Gllleshammer (Mnlster of Family Services): I, too, had an opportu nity to read the

article that the member is referring to. I note that the executive director of Winnipeg Child & Family Services has indicated that he is going to review the situation of the independent living arrangement for this particular child and review it with the social workers involved . Case Review Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington): Mr.

Speaker, will the Minister of Family Services undertake to ensure, in the absence of an independent reporting-to-the-Legislature Children's Advoca te, that the executive director of Child & Family Services not look only at this single incident, which is not an isolated incident, but that the director of Child & Family Services looks at the entire policy and in particular-

4506 LEGISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA June 10 , 1992 Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable member has put her question . Hon. Harold Gllleshammer (Minister of Family Services): I would offer the honourable member the same caution I offered the Leader of the Second Opposi tion party (Mrs. Carstairs), that the

article in the paper does not contain all of the detail that rela tes to this case, and there are oth er circumstances that the member would be well apprised to make herseH aware of before she draws those conclusions. I am glad the member raised the question of the Child Advocate piece of legislation that is currently before the House.

I would remind her again that we are consistent with Manitoba policy in the manner in which that bill has been drawn, that where servants of the House or officials have responsibility across a number of departments, like the Ombudsman or like the Provincial Auditor, they report to the House. Where the official is particularly respon sible to a certain department, and I would reference again the Chief Medical Examiner, the Public Trustee, the Public Utilities Board, that agency or that individual reports to that department and to that minister. Ms. Barrett: Mr.

Speaker, will the Minister of Family Services please share with the House or explain to the House what possi ble extenuating circumstances could lead any young person to be forced to live in a facility that has a washroom down the hall that is so smelly he cannot stand to live in it, that there is no security, broken windows and in a situation where the people who are living around him, from whom he is su pposed to take his independent living models, are people who are forced to live there because there is no- Mr. Speaker: Or der, please. The honourable member has put her question.

I would like to remind the honourable member for Wellington that once the Speaker has called "order" that the honourable member would take her place. Mr. Gllleshammer: Mr. Speaker, the legislation that we work under in this province dealing with social services prohibits us from talking about individual cases. I would say to the member that there is enough evidence in the media in recent times that memb ers should not accept the information that they receive at first blush without doing a little more investigation.

I would say to the memb er that in some circumstances, maybe she would be wise to find out what kind of circumstances existed when the decisions were made by an agency and what sort of circumstances exist sometime later. There are very definite changes that take place from time to time, and I would urge the member to talk to the staff who are in charge. Constitutional Proposal Devolution of Cultural Programs Ms. Jean Friesen (Wolseley): Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship.

Recent accounts of constitutional discussions sugges t that the nego tiators are discussing devolution of culture to the pro vinces. Would the minister explain to the House what the position of her department and her gover nment is, what posi tion they are taking at the constitutional table on this issue? Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship): Mr.

Speaker, in fact, we have discussed that issue and at the last Conference of Ministers of Culture and Heritage, it was an issue that I brought forward as one of great concern to Manitoba, wondering whether in fact if culture was devolved to the pro vinces, whether that would create or cause a feeding frenzy where everyone would want to be there and be the first in to obtain the most money possible for their individual provinces. So it was a concern that I did express at the time.

I think in negotiations, there has been some talk of some devolution but also in maintaining our major cultur al institutions with a strong central go vernment. Ms. Friesen: Mr. Speaker, what steps has the minister taken to ensure that the regional services of national institutions, such as the National Rim Board and the CBC, will not be cut and that in fact there will be federal support for Manitoba's cultural institutions, cultural industries, archives, museums and galleries? Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr.

Speaker, the National Film Board , Telefilm and Canada Council are in fact national institutions, and there is no talk of devolution of any of the national institutions. I know there will be a follo w-up Deputy Ministers of Culture meeting in the near future to discuss the

June 10 , 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MAN ITOBA 4507 issues interprovincially, but we know that the national institutions will remain intact. *

(1420) Ms. Friesen: Mr. Speaker, if I could underline to the minister that my concern is for the regional institutions of those federal offices. Would the minister table the studies that she must have comm issioned to examine the impact on Manitoba's cultural institutions of this dramatic change in federal-provincial relations? Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr . Speaker, I know that Manitoba does receive, in fact, its fair share or more money from the federal gove rnment in regard to culture, and we will ensure that this is maintained.

As I indicated earlier, the national institutions are not a part of any talks for devolution. Youth Unemployment Rate Government Initiatives Mr. Steve Ashton (Thompson): Mr. Speaker, this is a tough summer for Manitoba students. You can see it in the words of a student letter that I received just recently talking about how she has spent more than a month trying to get a job, unable to do so.

You can see it in terms of talking to an individual who, in a remote northern commu nity, has one job in the communi ty for students and has to decide which of 1 0 students will get it and the 1 0 students saying they would almost be better off if there were no jobs, that someone would not have to make that kind of a decision. It is being made worse by the go vernment's decision in a number of areas not to provide the kind of funding that is needed, full funding in the case of CareerStart to groups and communities that do not have their own funds to be able to put into job creation.

My question to the Premier is simple. Will he recognize that it is a tough year for Manitoba students, and will he now revise some of his program s to make sure there are more jobs for Manitoba students this summer? Hon. Gary Fllmon (Premier): Mr. Speaker, we have put In place a number of programs, including funding in the CareerStart Program and other vehicles, Partners with Youth through Rural Development, and many oth er new areas that have not been there before.

The reality is, yes, it is a difficult year, but, yes, many students are finding work, and the major origins of the work that is available obvi ously are within the private sector. It is in those areas in which jobs have been created in the past, opportunities for you th, and opportunities for youth will con tinue to be provided. These are areas that we believe are appropriate. The fact of the matter is, the government does not provide all of the job opportu nities for youth. It should not be expected to under any circumstances. We are doing what we believe is reasonable under the circumstances.

We are pro viding more money for those job opportunities for youth than we did in the previous budget, and we believe that this is an appropriate response to the circumstances that are there. Mr. Ashton: Mr. Speaker, the government used to provide full funding to community groups and to remote northern communities. Will this government reinstate the full funding so communities that have no resources, organizations that have no resources can put some of these students out to work so they can con tinue their education, so they can get into the work force ?

Will this government recognize the mistake of their cutbacks previously to these co mmunity groups and reinstate that funding? Mr. Fllmon: Mr. Speaker, what the member for Thompson is saying is that these organizations are happy to have the employment and the opportunity for people to work but are not willing to put any of their own money in it. That says to me that there is not a responsi bility on their part to make priority choices. If he is saying give people the money and they will create jobs, that is the old NDP way of make-work jobs.

Nobody is willing to put forward their own funding to employ people, but they say, sure, if somebody else gives us the money, then we will find ways of creating all sorts of jobs. Those are the kinds of things that are not fair to the taxpayer. They say to the taxpayer, we will throw the money away, because it is somebody else's money, but it is everybody's money. It is every taxpayer's money. That is why, Mr. Speaker, we object strenuously to New Democrats who will spend wantonly people's money because they are prepared to raise their taxes.

People in this pro vince have had enough of higher taxes, and they reject New Democratic ways of spending money and raising taxes.

4508 LEGISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA June 1 0, 1992 Mr. Speaker: Time for Oral Questions has expired. Committee Changes Mr. Nell Gaudry (St. BonHace): Mr. Speaker, 1 move, seconded by the member for Osborne (Mr. Alcock), that the composition of the Standing Comm ittee on Privileges and Elections be amended as follo ws: Inkster (Mr. Lamoureux) for St. James (Mr. Edwards). [Agreed] Mr. Edward Helwer (Gimll): I move , seconded by the member for St. Vital (Mrs.

Render), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources be amended as fol lo ws: The me mb er for Assi niboia (Mrs. Mci ntosh) for the member for Ste. Rose (Mr. Cummings); the member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr. McAlpine) for the member for Arthur-Virden (Mr. Downey) ; the member for Niakwa (Mr. Reimer) for the member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau). I move, seconded by the member for St. Vital (Mrs. Render), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Privileges and Elections be amended as fol lows: The member for Sturgeon Creek (Mr.

McAlpine) for the member for Roblin-Russell (Mr. Derkach); the member for River East (Mrs. Mitchelson) for the member for Steinbach (Mr. Driedger); the member for La Verendrye (Mr. Sveinson) for the member for St. Norbert (Mr. Laurendeau); the member for Ros smer e (Mr. Neufeld) for the member for Brandon West (Mr. McCrae); the member for Seine River (Mrs. Dacquay) for the member for Assiniboia (Mrs. Mcintos h). [Agreed] ORDERS OF THE DAY Hon. Clayton Mannes• (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, would you call second readings Bills 94, 95 and then 98.

After that time, we will go into adjourned debate on second readings. Mr. Speaker: In the order listed? Mr. Manness: No. Mr. Speaker: Okay. SECOND READINGS Bill 94-The Statute Law Amendment (Taxation) Act 1992 Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Environment (Mr. Cummings), that Bill 94, The Statute Law Amendment (Taxation) Act, 1992 (Loi de 1992 modifiant diverses dispositions legislatives en matiere de fiscalite), be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Motion presented. Mr.

Manness: Bill 94 implements the taxation measures announced in the 1992 Manitoba Budget Address on March 11. The budgetfroze Manitoba's major taxes for the fifth consecutive year and introduced selec tive reduction incentives to preserve and enhance the competitive gains made over the previous fo ur years. The bill is long and fairly complex. For simplicity, I have regrouped my discussion of the amendments under five headings. I believe, also, that my staff memb er did distribute a copy of the detail associated with a very complex bill this time around.

Those five headings are: Enhancing Economic Development Oppor tun ities; Environm ent Protection Measures; Tightening Tax Enforcement ; Cr oss-Border Sho pping ; and Housekeeping Changes. The bill im plemen ts a new 10 per cent Man ufactu ring Inves tmen t Tax Cr edit. Corporations which invest in new manufacturing buildings and equipment in Manitoba after March 11, 1992, and before July 1, 1993, qualify for the credit against Manitoba income taxes. The Manitoba Research and Development Tax Credit will encourage Manitoba businesses to increase their research and development efforts.

The credit is 15 percent of eligible expenditures. It reduces Manitoba income tax otherwise payable. Both this credit and the Manufacturing Investment Tax Credit will be administered on Manitoba's behalf by Revenue Canada. Bill 94 also introduces amendments to The Corporation Capital Tax Act, which will remove capitalized exploration expenditures from the tax base of explor ation companies. The bill also provides for incentives to encourage the search for new ore bodies and for the development of those discoveries into new mines, new processing facilities and new jobs.

A new mine tax holiday and the enhancement of exploration expenditures will encourage new investment by the mining industry without reducing tax revenue from current mines. Amendments to the motive fuel and gasoline tax reduce the tax on railway diesel fuel from 13.6 cents to 12.6 cents per litre, and aviation fuel from 5.8

June 1 0, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA 4509 cents to 5.0 cents per litre respective ly. The Retail Sales Tax Act will be amended to provide an exem ption for toll charges associated with a 1-800 te lephone service. These measures should help stre ngthen Manitoba's competitiveness and its attractiveness as a place to invest and expand . In the Budget Address, I noted that work was proceeding on the extension of enviro nmen tal protection taxes to tires and disposable diapers. Mr. Speaker, I will be making an announcement with respect to greater detail on this issue in some short perio d of time.

I might note that it is the government's intention to replace the tire charge under the sales tax with a similar charge under The Waste Reduction and Prevention Act by July 1993. Any reven ues that will come in from the imposition of this tax will be attributed to the environmental protec tion tax account and will assist in funding new measures for environmental preservation and improvement in Manitoba. • (1 430) Bill 94 includes general antiavoidance provisions under The Corporation Capital Tax Act, The Health and Post-Secondary Education Tax Levy Act and The Retail Sales Tax Act.

The rules under The Health and Post-Secondary Education Tax Levy Act have been tightened to prevent abuse. The bill also sets out procedure for filing appeals to the independent Tax Appeals Commis sion established by separate legislation presently before the Assem bly, and I will read second reading of that bill next, Mr. Speak er. Amen dmen ts to The Gasoline Tax Act, The Motive Fuel Tax Act, The Tobacco Tax Act, The Revenue Act and The Retail Sales Tax Act ensure that directors of corporations are accountable for remitting taxes collected from Manitobans.

Am en dmen ts to the new Mani toba Small Business Tax Reduction are designed to ensure that the reduction benefits are targeted to genuinely new enterprises in the intended sectors. These amendments are intended to reduce opportunities for tax avoidance and to ensure that Manitoba taxes are applied and administered fairly. Beginnin g August 1, 19 92, the insur ance corporations tax will apply to premium income earned by the United Health corporation, that is, Blue Cross. This will ensure all providers of insur ance services will pay the same tax on premium income.

The change will align Manitoba's tax trea tment with that of most other provinces. The 1992 Budget Address announced Manitoba's acceptance of the federal governmenfs offer to collect provincial alcohol and tobacco taxes at border cro ssing points. Bill 94 inclu des amendments to The Tobacco Tax Act and The Liquor Control Act, enabling federal customs officers to collect the applicable taxes and charges effective July 1 , 1992. The bill also includes legisla tion enabling Revenue Canada to provide retail sales tax and GST rebates to out-of-country visitors using a common application.

Federal administration of Manitoba sales tax rebates to foreign tourists will commence July 1 , 1992. Finally, Bill 94 also includes provisions that will enable the province and the federal gove rnment to enter similar agreements for the collection of reta il sales taxes at the border. These are important steps towards levelling the playing field for competitive competition for cross-border shopping. Finally, the bill also includes a number of technical and housekeeping provisions, which are required to ensure that Manitoba's taxing statutes are applied in an appropriate and even-handed manner.

These include: measures that will identify taxable and nontaxable cigarettes by special marking similar to cigarette marking programs in other jurisdictions; measures to avoid double taxation on income earned in mutual fund trusts; exte nding the 1. 5 percent special re fundable mining tax on mining profits; and changing the basis on which railway fuel is collected from purchases to use or consumption. Mr. Speaker, the bill represents a substantial improvement in Manitoba's taxation regime. I commend it to all members and to Manitobans. Thank you. Mr. Le onard Evan s (B randon East): Mr.

Speak er, I move, seconded by the member for St. Johns (Ms. Wasylycia -Leis) , that de bate be adjourned. Motion agreed to. Bill 9�The Tax Appeals Commission Act Hon. Clayton Manness (Minister of Finance): Mr. Speak er, I move , seconded by the Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship (Mrs. Mitchelso n), that Bill 95 (The Tax Appeals Commission Act; Loi

4510 LEGISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA June 1 0, 1992 sur la Commission d'appel des impc)tsetdes taxes), be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Motion presented. Mr. Manness: Mr. Speaker, Bill 95 implements improve ment in taxpayers' relations hips with our gove rnment. It provides for an independent review of contested corporations capital tax, retail sales tax or payroll tax assessments, to facilitate a fairer and impartial resolution of the taxpayers concerned. The process is similar but less formal than the notice of objection proced ures of The Income Tax Act.

Taxpayers will not be req uired to hire a lawyer or an accountant to represe nttheir conce rns. The Tax Appeals Commissioner may req uire information from the taxpayer or from employees of the Taxation Division in order to properly respond to the taxpaye r's appeal . The taxpayer as well as the Taxation Divisio n could appeal the decisio n received from the Tax Appeals Commissioner to the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) . H not satisfied with the Minister of Finance's decision , a furthe r appeal could be made by the taxpayer to the Court of Queen's Bench.

This Tax Appeals Comm ission reflects our governmenfs commitment to fairness and to reduc e red tape and to de velop bette r processes to serve the taxpayers of the province. The bill represents a substantial improvement in Manitoba's taxation re gime and, again, Mr. Speaker, I commend it to all members and to all Manitobans. Thank you. Mr. Leonard Evans (Brandon East): Mr. Speak er, I move , seconded by the member for Thompson (Mr. Ashton), that deb ate be adjourned . Motion agreed to. Bill 98- The Manitoba Multiculturalism Act Hon. Bonnie Mitchelson (Minister of Culture, Heritage and Citizenship): Mr.

Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister of Education and Training (M rs. Vodrey) , that Bill 98, The Manitob a Multiculturalism Act (loi sur le multiculturalisme au Manitoba) be now read a second time and be referred to a committee of this House. Motion presented. Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr. Speake r, it is an honour and a privilege for me to rise to speak on the Manitoba Multiculturalism Act. This legislation is the c ulmination of two years of dedicated effort by many individuals. On May 15 of 1990 , the Premier (Mr. Filmon) and I announced Manitoba's policy for a multicultural society.

The policy includes four initiatives designed to address the opportunities and challenges of a multicultural society in all of the activities and operations of government and for gove rnment to engage in more effective partnership with all parts of a diverse cultural community. Mr. Speak er, with this le gislation, we have fulfilled all four important initiatives. The first was the des ignation of a Mini ste r responsible for Multiculturalism. I had the distinct privilege of being designated as that minister on May 15 of 19 90, and I am proud to continue doing so.

This has afforded me the opportunity to introduce many positive new initiatives over the past few years which have found favour and support amongst Manitobans. Reflec ting that mul ticulturalism is the responsibility of all departments of government, I am to act as an advocate within government to ensure that policies and programs throughout government reflec t our mu lticul turalis m policy. This co-opera tive , coll aborative app roach to implemen tation of the multicultural policy was seen in two recent announcements. In Fe bruary, my colleague the Minister of Labour (Mr.

Praznik) and I announced a unique awareness program launched by the Employment Standards branch in partnership with the Multiculturalism Secretariat to better inform ethnocultu ral commu nities about em ployment standard laws in Man itoba. Volunteers from ethnocultural communities are trained by the Employment Standards branch to set up information sessions, forums, and workshops in the community on workplace rights and responsibilities. It gives empl oyers and emplo yees the tools they need to uphold their rights and resp onsibilities under the law.

On May 11, my colleague the Minister of Education and Training (Mrs. Vodrey) unveiled the mul ticultural Education policy. It reflects our recognition of the fact that underst anding, accepting and building on our cultural and racial diversity is crucial to our econom ic, social and community succ ess. This policy will help us meet the educational needs of all students. It is essential that our educational syste m be responsive to the cultural and lingu istic diver sity within our schools and post-secondary institutions.

June 1 0, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MAN ITOBA 4511 The second undertaking was the establ ishment of a Multiculturalism Secretariat. This originally found its basis in the report of the Manitoba task force on mu lticulturalism and it was called "Multiculturalism is for All Manitobans: Towards a Horizontal Mosaic." This report was completed in August 1988. The task force felt that one single individual, a multicultural co-ordinator could not per form the fu nction of co-ord inating the impleme ntation of a multicultural policy.

It was proposed that an administrative infrastructure was required to advise me, the Multicultural Affairs Committee of Cabinet and to co-ordinate the implementation of gove rnment policies, among other functions. The Multiculturalism Secretariat was officially opened on August 20, 1990, and is respons ible for working through out government to identify, prioritize, and implemen t actions to contribute to the achievement of the mul ticultural ideal. The secretariat works with the community at large to develop and enhanc e partnerships between communities and with government. In the bill before us, Mr.

Speak er, there is specific reference to the secretariat working with the bus iness comm uni ty, labour organiza tions, voluntary and other private organizations to promote respect and appreciation for our cultural diversity, to encourage full participation by all Manitobans in all aspects of Manitoba's society and to recognize the benefits of a multilingual, multicultural society. Again, multicul turalism is one of our great strengths as a province, and we must strive to ensure the realization of the full economic pote ntial that this asset can bring to Manitoba for all Manitobans to make Manitoba stronger.

The third initiative was the opening of an outreach office. I was pleased to officially open the Community Access Office on May 14 of this year. This is an easily accessi ble storefront office which provides practical assistance to groups and individuals in dealing with departments and agencies of gove rnment. *

(1440) Mr. Speak er, The Manitoba Multiculturalism Act before us today is the fourth initiative we announced just two years ago. The Manitoba Multiculturalism Act is, and I know all memb ers of the House are aware, a very im portant piece of legislation.

Through consultations held with the multicultural umbrella organizations and various individuals, I heard time and time again that it was most timely and necess ary to introduce leg islation that addressed multiculturalism and that the legislation should formally establish and enshrine our multicultural structures, the Multiculturalism Grants Advisory Council, the Multiculturalism Secretariat and the Community Access Office, in a legisla tive framework. At the same time, Mr. Speaker, much was said about the Manitoba Intercultural Council and its legisla tion.

A strong conse nsus emerged that the MIC needed to be carefu lly and fully examined as to its role, mandate and structure. It was also clear, howeve r, that there was no one answer to these issues, and many suggested that we engage an ext ernal, independent consultant to conduct such a review and report back. I was pleased, Mr.

Speaker, to meet with the executive of the Manitoba Intercultural Council on Monday of this week, and subsequently with those whom I had consulted with, to advise them that we have listened to what was being said, and have appointed a consultant who is mandated to conduct research and consultations to assess the role, mandate and structure of the Manitoba Inter cultural Council, and make rec ommendations thereon to me as the min ister, includin g any nece ssary amendments to The Manitoba Intercultural Council Act. The final report is due by October 15 of this year. Through the work of the consultant, Mr. J.

Don Blair, I look forward to hearing the thoughts and views of a broad cross

section of Manitobans, and to consider such advice and make any necessary amendments to The MIC Act prior to its next biennial assem bly in 1993. Mr. Speake r, the consultations I held on The Multiculturalism Act afforded the opportunity to develop conse nsus on several issues: To state the recognition of the multicultural reality of Manitoba, that "multicultural" is an all-inclusive te rm. That we in Manitoba are able to, and should be encouraged to celeb rate our cultures. Thatthere should be clear recognition of the importance of encouraging the use of heritage languages .

That we should enshrine the multicultural structures-that is, the Multiculturalism Secretariat, the Community Access Office, and the Multicultural Grants Advisory Council in the legislatio n. That education in the broad sense is essenti al.

4512 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MAN ITOBA June 10 , 1992 We must promote the benefits of our cultural diversity and ensure that all Manitobans become cognizant of the fact that multiculturalism Is all-Inclusive and a source of strength and pride. That we need to strive to ensure that there is respect for our cultural diversity, respect for ethnocultural comm unities and respect for each and every individual regardless of cultural backgrou nd.

That it was essential that the minister be required to table an annual report with respect to the administration of the act and the activities of the Multiculturalism Secretariat. That we should set as a clear focus the imp or tance of encou rag ing and foste ring par tnership and co-ope ration between com munities. That we need to prom ote our similarities, not dwell on our differences, and to acknowledge that we do have shared values and aspirations. Mr. Speaker, the thoughts, ideas and suggestions expressed concern ing this act are reflected in this bill.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank all of those who took the time to meet with me, to share their views and their suggestions with me. These are individuals who devote their time so freely to their own community and to the community at large, to contribute what they can through their dedication and comm itment to multiculturalism and who recognize how their efforts contri bute so much to our quality of IHe in Manitoba and Canada. I know that they will continue to provide constructive comment over the weeks, months and years ahead. Mr. Speaker, Manitoba is a multicultural society.

The word "multicultural• is used to reflect our make-up histor ically, presently and into the future. It is intended as an all-inclusive term including every person of every cultural background. I believe it is essential we continue to be cognizant of this and ensure that it is clear to all of those around us. Many mis co ncep tions exist. Many people think multiculturalism is only for those who are recent immigrants or only for those who are visible minorities or for those who are not aboriginal, French or British. Again, it includes each and every one of us. That is why, Mr.

Speaker, The Multiculturalism Act before this House begins with the statement and I qu ote : "Whereas Man itoba has been a multicultural society from the time of its original popula tion , the Aboriginal peoples .· Multiculturalism is part of our identity. It helps to find who we are. It is a fundamental characteristic of Manitoba and Canada, and that is why there have been proposals for a Canada clause to be Incor porated into the Canadian Consti tution, and that Canada clause I know was supported by an all-party task force commi ttee.

That is where the second statement of the act before this House is, and I quote : "And

whereas the diversity of Manitobans as regards to culture, religion and racial backgr ound is a fundamental characteristic of Manitoban society which benefits all Manit obans, economical ly, socially and culturally: I believe that H we look to a common identity, H we can define our society, our province and our country in an all-inclusive way, we can do much for Canadian unity. We have shared values, shared aspirations and shared dreams. Within the broad concept of multiculturalism, there are, of course , specHic policies and program s that have been introduced and will continue to be developed. The Premier (Mr.

Filmon) and I annou nced Manitoba's policy for a multicultural society on May 15 of 19 90. In that policy, our view of the multicultural ideal was set fort h. This has been restated in the

preamble to The Multiculturalism Act with one important addition, that being a reference to shared values, and I quote : "And

whereas the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba believes that Manitoba's multicultural society is not a collection of many separate societie s, divided by language and culture, but is a single society united by shared laws, values, aspirations and respons ibilities within which persons of various backgrounds have: the freedom and opportunity to express and foster their cultural heritage; the freedom and opportunity to participate in the broader IHe of society; and the responsibility to abide by and contribute to the laws and aspirations that unite society: This ideal of a multicultural society affects all parts of the commun ity and speaks directly to our collective determination to meet the challenges of living together in harmony and equality. * (1 450) As I have stated, Mr.

Speaker, a consistent message was conveyed through our meetings that we need to enc our age recog nition and understanding that multiculturalism is for all of us and that we should promote our similarities. I believe that our statement of the multicultural ideal captures these themes and truly reflects the positive

June 10 , 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MANITOBA 4513 view of our strengths as a society that is assured by the vast majority of peop le. We, regardless of our cultural background, have shared dream s, aspirations and values, and we realize we have shared laws and responsi bilities which serve to further unite us. As mem bers of this House are also well aware, Manitoba's policy for a multicultural society set forth three fundamen tal principles: pride, equality and partner ship. We have restated these principles in this legislation, and I would like to quote : "It is hereby declared to be the policy of the government of Manitoba to (

a) recognize and promo te understand ing that the cultural diversity of Manitoba is a strength and a source of pride to Manitobans; . " This principle embodies the aspects of cultural retenti on, promotion and deve lopment and the benefits of sharing one's culture with others. Two particular areas that would fall within this principle are encouragement for retention of heritage languages and the developm ent of folk, ethnocultu ral, artistic activities. Language is a cornerstone of a culture . The preservation of one's heritage language is essential in many ways to the rete ntion of one's culture.

As we become a more global society, the ability of Canadians to speak the languages of the world and to know and understand the cultures of the world will certai nly enhance our position as a nation in every conceivable way. In recognition of the great importance of heritage languages to cultural retention and what we see as a tremendous potential which we should strive to realize, we have made specific reference to the im portance of encouraging the use of such languages in the

preamble to The Multiculturalism Act. Artistic activities are part of our quality of life . We are fortunate in Manitoba to have such a rich and diverse artistic community. We are privileged to have a strong and vibrant folk, ethnocultural arts community that is able to share its artistry with the community at large. I am pleased, Mr. Speaker, that we are able to, jus t recently, act on recom mendations that were made by the folk arts community In terms of funding by the pro vince .

The Manitoba Arts Policy Review recommended that, for the purposes of funding, all arts activity be eval uated in terms of its artistic merit and not on the basis of its cultural origin. This re commen dation was supported by the folk arts community and was reflected in a task force report of the Folk Arts Council of Winnipeg. The folk or ethnocultural arts community sought to be supported on this basis of being artists, funded as art, and not being supported by virtue of being multicultural. Mr. Speake r, art is art.

I am pleased that we have now establis hed an arts branch within my department, designed to fund all community-based arts, including the folk, ethnoculturai arts. It is also declared in this act: to be the policy of the government of Manitoba to recognize and promote the right of all Manitobans re gardless of culture, religion or racial background to equal access to opportunities to participate in all aspects of society and to respect the cultural values. The equality aspect is what could be described as the huma n righ ts or social jus tice arm of multiculturalism.

Each of us has the freedom and opportunity to express and foster all aspects of our own cultural herita ge, our own language , customs and traditions, and we recognize the right of our neighbours to do just the same. This openness and acceptanc e is fundam ental to promoting unders tanding, mutual respect and harmony among all ethnoculturai communities. Obviously there are many aspects of equality, many issues that need to be dealt with to ensure that every individual has the freedom and opportunity to participate equally. A major issue which has had much needed focus and attention over the recent past is racism.

We have seen all too clearly that racism exists and how it works. It divides communities and denies equality to individuals. It is imper ative that we work together as a united community with one voice to speak out on this issue and to accept responsibility for developing strategies to stop it. We must without exception or condition make it clear that racism has no place in our society. Refusing to take a stand against racism is accepting it, and we are not prepared to do that. On March 20 of this year, r announced the appointment of an anti-racism co-ordinator within the Citizenship division of my department.

This position is responsible for imple mentation and co-ordination of anti-racism initiatives . Recognizing that changes must begin within, the Citizenship division, in co-operation with the Civil Service Commission, implem ented a pilot anti-racism training program within my departm ent. It examines barriers, practices and procedures which are or may

4514 LEGISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA June 1 0, 1992 be perceived as be ing discriminatory, with the goal of developing strategies for change . Due to the great success of this pilot project, the Civil Service Comm ission is making It available to other departments of government. In December, I announced a new grant program, the Bridging Cultu res Program. Several appl ications from community organizations for innovative anti-racism projects have since been approved for funding. In March, I released the report of the working group on Immigrant Credentials and announced steps to im plement its recommendations.

In partic ul ar, the labour ma rket in Immi grant Credentials Branch of the Citizenship Division was established as of Aprll 1 to, among other things, deal with this vital area. We must reduce and elimi nate barriers our new immigrants face In recognition of their off-shore creden tials, for these barriers rob them of access to a better future and deprive the commu nity of the pote ntial benefits of their contributions. Mr.

Speaker, as I said earlier, through the consultations, I heard time and time again that we need to strive to ensure that there Is respect for our cu ltural diversity , respect for ethnocultura l commu nities and respect for each and every Individual regardless of cultural background. Respect Is Integ ral to the attainment of our multicultural Ideal, for It Is only when we come to truly respect one another that we come to fully accept each and everyo ne's right to equal access to opportunity and participation In all aspects of society.

That Is why we have clearly and specifically stated that It Is the policy of gove rnmen t to recognize and promote the right of all Manitobans, regardless of culture, religion , or racial background, to respect for their cultural values. It Is also decla red to be the policy of the go ve rnment of Ma nitoba to enha nce the opportunities of Manitoba's multicultural society by acting In partners hip with cultural communities and by encouraging co-operation and partnerships between cultural com mu nities.

This principle recog nizes that it is essential that we all work together to achieve the multicultural Ideal and to ensure that programs and policies are meeting the needs of the community. It ref lec ts the necess ity of eth nocultura l comm unities working toge ther, within an ethnocultural community, in partnership with other ethnocultural communities and with gove rnment . We must all share responsibil ity for solving problems that confront us. We mu st work In partnership If we are to succeed. Each of us has someth in g to contribute.

Multiculturalism em bodies a commitment to work together in an atmosphere of equality and respect within gove rnment, within our own ethnocultural communities and within the entire community, to confront common concerns and shape a common future . I look forward to continuing to work with all Manitobans to meet the challenge of living together In harmony and equality and to achieve the Ideal of a multicultural society based on the principles of pride, equality and partne rship.

I sincerely appreciate, this afternoon, the opportunity to express and share my thoughts with the Legislature and with our Manitoba community. I look forward to the support of all memb ers of this House for this long-awaited piece of legislation and this first Manitoba Multiculturalism Act. Thank you, Mr. Speake r. Committee Change Mr. Edward Helwer (GI mil): I move , seconded by the member for St. Vital (Mrs. Render), that the composition of the Standing Committee on Public Utilities and Natural Resources be amended as follows: the member for Fort Garry (Mrs. Vodrey) for the member for Lakeside (Mr.

Enns). (Agreed) *** Mrs. Sharon Cer•talra (Leader of the Second Oppo•Hion): I rise to speak on this bill. I think you have been notified earlie r that I have passed my Leade r's designation on to the critic for Culture , Heritage and Recreation, so I will be speaking for only 40 mi nutes on this particular piece of legislation. I rise to speak on this bill, which is an important piece of legislation and one which we have been awaiting for a large number of years .

Long before this gove rnment, we had hoped that we would have one from the New Dem ocratic Party when they were the government of the day, and so we welcome the act. Unfortunately, we do not welcome the spirit of the act, because we see so much of what has happened to the multicultural community, not be treated with the very words that the minister has addressed so eloquently In her earlier re marks.

June 10 , 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MAN ITOBA 4515 *

(1500) She talks about respect; she talks about the need for equal access to opportunity, and yet that is not wh at has been the ch apter and ve rse of multiculturalism under the administration of this minister. Mr. Speaker, I would like to address firstly the actions of the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) earlier this afternoon which I found qu ite remarkable, that after four questions were asked on

an act he rose in this House on a point of order. Obviously feeling that the minister was in some kind of difficulty, he wished to persuade her, in a way, that he would provide her with a little breathing space, so she would be under less difficulty. I would like, Mr.

Speaker, for you to undertake a review of the rules of this particular Chamber, that if, indeed, the Minister of Finance as the House leader is going to be given the opportunity to limit Question Period on bill days, then surely it is essential as a rule change in this Chamber to inform members of the opposition what bills are going to be debated on those particular days, because we come into this Chamber prepared to ask our questions without any knowledge of what is going to be on the Order Paper.

We had no prior notification that the minister was going to introduce this bill on second reading, and I quite frankly find it a lack of respect for my rights as a member of this Chamber to then be told that is off limits as far as the government House leader is concerned on any given day. So, Mr.

Speaker, I would ask you to undertake a review of the rules of this Chamber, so that if we are going to be limited in the kinds of questions we can ask on Wednesdays and Fridays then we should at the same time be afforded information from the gov ernment House leader as to what he is going to be raising later on in those periods of time. As to the multicultural act itself, first of all, Mr. Speaker, I would like to deal with the reality of why we need a multicultural act in this province similar in some respects to the multicultural act available in the country.

I would like to begin by discussing with the members the Charter of Rights and Freedoms which was the first representation in Canada of a reco gnition that we were, in fact, a multicultural society.

Section 15 of the Charter says: Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination, and in particular without discrimination based on race , national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age, or mental or physical disability. Subsection 1 does not preclude any law, program or activity that has as its objective amelior ation of conditions of disadvantaged individuals or groups including those that are disadvantaged because of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age, or mental or physical disability.

Section 27 of the same Charter goes on to talk about, and I quote, This charter shall be interpreted in a manner consistent with the preservation and enhancement of the multicultural heritage of Cana dians. The mul ticul tural her itage of Canadians and the refore by defi nition of Manitobans. You know, Mr. Speaker, we tend to think of this country so often as a bilingual country because that is what it is in law, and there is the sense that somehow or other Canada is dominated by people of British and French origi n. Well, that is not true and has not been true for a very long time in our natio n.

In the 198 6 census, for example, there were only 6.3 million people of British origin. There were only 6 million people of French origin. In other words, of the 26 million people who lived in this country, only 12 million of them could in fact trace their heritage to either French or English in their ethnic origin. pnte�ection] The member has asked, how many there were of Mennonite origi n?

Well, in fact, they do not break down Menno nite origin but they do indicate German origin, and for the member's benefit there were in the 1986 census some 897,000 people who listed their ancestry as being German, and we know full well that the vast majority of those were in fact Mennonites. Mr. Speaker, so we are in fact no longer a British and French peopl e. We are a multiethnic people with many languages coming from many groups.

The German people , for example, are the third largest group in Canada, fo llowed by the Italian, followed by the Ukrainian, followed by the Chinese, and on and on we go into large numbers of people that have just recently come to our great country. So multiculturalism is not something that we can accept as a concept without doing something about it within our society, and that is exactly what the Charter tried to recognize in 1982 by saying that this is a part of the dynamic that is Canada today. That is why the original task force on Meech Lake and

4516 LEGISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA June 10 , 1992 later the task foroe on the Constitution put forward the suggestion that in Manitoba at least we would work and strive towards the formulation in the Constitution of a Canada clause, and that Canada clause would not only recognize the French and English heritage of Canadian people but would also recognize our Rrst Peoples, the aboriginal peoples, and would recognize also the multicultural nature of Canada.

I have been successive ly dismayed at wording that leaks out into newspaper stories and certainly was apparent in the Dobbie-Beaudoin report that they would like to water down, they would somehow like to see the word •multicultural" disappear, that we would be a society of many cultures. Somehow "multiculturalism" had become some word that people no longer wanted to use, and I congratulate the minister for having the courage of using it boldly in this particular act because I think it reflects what is Canada today.

We have in this act, the minister says, a bill which denotes and has respect for people and provides for them equal access opportunities. Mr. Speaker, let us look at what the minister has done as specific actions while she pretends to say she belie ves in respect, which means equal access and opportunity for all people.

Well, first and foremost, one of her first actions is to take an organization called the Manitoba Intercultural Council, which represents on a numbers basis one at least per community, but more for some communities because there are more members of that community living within Manitoba, and she takes an organization which used to have funding authority and she removes that funding authori ty from them. Uni laterally, without discussions, without debate, she takes the funding authority from them.

I think there are many in the Manitoba Intercultural Council who would say very clearly that the minister showed no respect for them, no respect for what they had done in the past, and no respect for their future work on behalf of the multicultural community in the province of Manitoba. The minister then went on to say that she was showing her respect by the establishment of a Multiculturalism Grants Advisory Council. Well, of course , the Manitoba Grants Advisory Council now has the funding authority that used to be held by MIC. MIC represented not governmen t but the ethnic communities themselves.

We have now taken that granting authority and we have given it to an advisory council, and who appoints the advisory council? Well, of course , the minister appoints through Order -in-Council the advisory council, and so the advisory council is not respon sible to the multicultural community, the advisory council is responsible to the minister of the Crown. That is the way this minis ter has shown respect for the mu lticultur al com mu nity and the Manit oba Intercultural Council. * (151 0) The minister then est ablishes with some fanfare a Multiculturalism Secretariat.

This is going to be an organization, she says in her legislation, which shall act under the direction of the minister, and it shall work with officials of other departments and agencies and work with the community at large and foster and enhance relationships and work with the business community-all laudable goals. Nobody can argue with the goals whatsoever. What does she do?

Does she sho w respect for the multicultural community by saying, well, we will throw this out by public competition so we can get the most knowledge able, the most respected member of the multicultural community to head the Multiculturalism Secretariat. No, of course she does not. What she does is she appoints the Tory candidate for the constituency of Kildonan whom the people of the constituency of Kildonan indicate they do not want to have represent them in the Legislature, because they vote for the New Democratic member in that particular riding. So she says, well, Mr.

Langtry, because you have lost out on this particular Chamber, we will reward you by making you the head of the secretariat. In terms of Mr. Langtry. Mr. Langtry had been a former president of the Folk Arts Council. He had done very valuable work within the multicultural community, and I suspect that if he had submitted his name and had in fact gone through an interviewing process he may well have been given the job. But then he would have been given the job with respect.

It would have been recognized that he was the best person for that particular job, that he was recognized by those who worked in the multicultural community as being an individual who would represent their interests well within this newly formed secretariat. No, she did not have respect for, I would suggest, either this position or indeed the talents of Mr. Langtry, but she chose instead to politicize the process and once again did not provide the very

June 1 0, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 4517 equal opportunity access that she talks about as being so important for the multicultural community. Well, Mr. Speaker, it did not stop there. The Multiculturalism Secretariat is in place and the Multiculturalism Secretariat requires a policy analyst. Well, does Mr. Langtry have an open competition to choose somebody to be the policy analyst? No.

The newly-appointed head of the secretariat, who just happens to be the Tory candidate in the previous election for the constituency of Kildonan, reaches into his campaign workers and appoints his campaign chair, one Miss Alice Kirkland to be the policy analyst, again without any competition, again without any understanding whether she is the best qualified individual for this particular positio n.

Again we see no respect, no equal access opportunity because there are literally hundreds of people who have devoted countless hours to the multicultural communities in this provi nce, hundreds of individuals who would be delighted to have had the opportunity to apply for this position, hundreds of individuals who would have had the qualifications to have served this position well. Is Miss Kirkland not qualified? I have no idea.

She may be eminently qualified in order to fulfill this positi on, but the problem is that we will never know whether she was more qualified than any other applicant because they did not allow any oth er applicant to apply. The minister refused to show the very respect for equal access to opportunities that she talks about in her piece of legislatio n.

That, unfortunately, is what causes those of us who would have liked to have participated in this debate without any partisanship to not to be able to do so, because it has been so politicized by the ministry that we have no choice but to point out the omissions and offences of the minister herself and her staff for the very piece of legislation that she is introducing today. Mr. Speaker, it does not stop there. The minister talks about the importance of heritage languages. Well, yes, heritage languages are extremely important.

One of the best books that I have read in ma ny year s that will give us all some understanding of what this country is truly all about is a book called "The Canadian Family Tree, Canada's Peopl es." Unfortunately, it was published then by the multiculturalism directorate in 1982, and from what I have been able to discover it has not entered into a subsequent printing, but it is a book that I think should be in every public library and in every school and every classroom across the nation, because it gives everyone the opportunity to team in some detail about individual communities as they have settled in this nation and in this pro vince.

For example, to pick a grou p that is well known in this particular pro vince, it talks about the Icelandic peop le, and it talks about the history of Iceland as one of colonization. They talked about the celebration of its nation of 1 , 1 00 years of history. Far longer, certainly than Canada. It talks about their settlement in Canada beginning in 18 72, in Ontario. It talks about its settlement in Manitoba, more specifically in the 188 0s, and it tells us that by 1971 there were 13 ,000 Icelandic Canadians.

It goes on to show where they live, primarily, of course , as I indicated before, in the province of Manitoba. It goes through all the ethnocultural commu nities. Well, each one of these included in this group has their own language. They bring that language with them to this country. Then they are faced with a dilemma. They are faced with a dilemma that has been faced by immigrant families for generations. (Madam Deputy Speaker in the Chair) The first generation, of course, has to struggle to team either of Canada's two offi cial languages, either English or French.

They then have to try at the same time to preserve within their own family structure the language that they brought with them. Some comm unities have been more successful, and that often depends on the number of other people in the commu nity who speak that heritage language. So, for example, if there are large numbers of German people living in a small community, then it is relatively easy to preserve the German language as a language of daily life.

If, however, you come from Ethiopia to Manitoba, and there are very few Ethiopians who live within our dynamic, then it is very difficult for them to preserve their Ethiopian language. But what we see from this minister while she talks about the preservation of heritage language, we have also seen that there is a lack of understanding of the need for those very same peop le, while preserving their own language, to also learn the language that is spoken in this nation. That is why, with some dismay, we have watched this

4518 LEGISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA June 1 0, 1992 gove rnment cut English as a Second language program initiatives. They used to exist at Red River Commu nity College. They no longer exist there. Those who were asked to move from Red River Commun ity College cannot find the same amount of language training within the Winnipeg School Division because there were only a certain number of pos itions.

So, while we have one part of the equation being spoken of by the minister today and the need to preserve heritage languages, we do not see the same kind of support for the other side of the equation, which is provid ing these individuals with the very skills that they require in order to exist in our country, and one of those very fundamental skills is the ability to speak either English or French, depending on where you live in this nation.

The minister spent some time in her speech today talking about the need to combat racism, and yet, Madam Deputy Speaker, we see no real initiatives being taken to deal with racism, which is a factor in our society and one that the minister agrees with.

I was dismayed just some weeks ago to meet with some young people who had been working that very afternoon in an antiracism day in the Winnipeg School Division No. 1. * (1 520) In meeting with these students who attended Kelvin High School, they indicated that in their meetings with other students from other schools they were dismayed at the number of incidents youn gsters were reporting of racist attitudes; everything from an example of a phys ed teacher who told a couple of black children to stand under the basketball hoop because the black mats that were normally there were not available, and because of their colour they could represent the mats for that particular phys ed period.

That is a blatant form of racism. When we talk to black children, Chinese children, aboriginal children, we find over and over and over again that they can report incidents of racism where they have been discriminated against. I have, in my own experience as a teacher, watched fellow teachers pass out books of less than decent quality to aborig inal children with the excuse that they would only throw them around anyway.

Well, I can assure, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I have seen children of all races, creeds, colours and religions throw textbooks around with impunity, tragically, and that it has nothing whatsoever to do with their race. I have watched children expelled, put outside classe s, because the teacher found an excuse to have a reason to expel that particular child from a class. But, of course, frequently, it was a child of a visible minority who found their way sitting outside the door.

It was never that blue-eyed, white, blond-haired child who found themselves expelled from the teaching situation at that particular time. Racism Is very much alive and well. One of the reasons for racism is that there is not sufficient direction coming from the top. We have asked the minister consistently to provide within this Chamber a cross-cultural awareness day for members of the legisla ture. I found it interesting that they did not seem to have any difficulty doing a gender-language day-in fact, several days, giving us options as to when we would like to attend-last year.

But they seem to find themselves mired in concrete and unable to provide a cross-c ultural day on the issue of racism. Yet the minister addresses this as a critical issue in order for our multicultural com munity to feel completely at home within our Canadian dynamic. Well, if she wants them to feel at home, then I would suggest to her, one way that she can do that is to make sure that we begin that education process with legislators in this Chamber and we work its way down. I have made the suggestion to the Minister of Education (Mrs.

Vodrey) that each and every teacher who graduates, hencefo rth, should have at least one course in cross-cu ltural education so that teacher does not go into the classroom with some stereotypical views of what some children can accom plish and what other children cannot. It is amazing to me that there seems to be, in the general public, a perception that Chinese children are going to do very well in school . There seems to be an equal perception that black children are not going to do very well in school .

Madam Deputy Speaker, I can point, in my own teaching experience, to Chinese children who did very well; I can also point to Chinese children who did not do particularly well. I can turn to black children who did very poorly, but I also can turn to black children with extremely high levels of academic achievement, and I think we have to rid pote ntial teachers of any kind of stereotypical

June 1 0, 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MANITOBA 4519 knowledge about what those children will bring with them on their pack as they enter into classroom s. Well, Madam Deputy Speaker, there is a very simple way of addressing this issue. Teachers cannot be certified in the province of Manitoba without approval by the Department of Education. By a simple Order-in -Council, the Minister of Education (Mrs. Vodrey) can change the procedure of certificati on. She can say by a simp le Order-in-Counci l no teacher will be certified in the pro vinc e of Ma nitoba without a cou rse in cross-cu ltural education .

It takes a very, very short act on the part of the Minister of Education (Mrs. Vodrey) to ensure that within our school comple xes we have teachers who are trained cross- culturally, who can begin to put into place the anti-racism modality that we all recognize is so very important within our society. I would like to congr atulate the Manitoba Federation of Labour for the excellent work that they have been doing in the workplace with regard to a fight racism campaign.

They have taken a very solid leadership in this area, but we do not see the same kind of leade rship coming from this gove rnment in other workplaces, even within the Civil Service itself, even within this Legislature, so that we can combat the very racism that the minister addresses, it being such an important part of multiculturalism and understanding that the multicultural dynamic is now part and parcel of the Canadian dynamic. Madam Deputy Speaker, I think it is importantthat we point out how we would like to see this act different than the act that exists at the present time.

We would like to see within this act a secretariat in which it is clearly indicated: Each and every position of the Multiculturalism Secretariat will be appointed by the Civil Service Commission and by an open competition , so that there will be no direct appointments anywhere in this secretariat by the minister respo nsible, whether it is this minister or the minister in any other political party in and of the future. We would like to see the Multiculturalism Grants Advisory Council eliminated. We have made no doubt about that.

We think that Grants Advisory Council responsibility belongs with the Manitoba Intercultural Council. It has always belonged with the Manitoba Intercultural Council. The minister used an excuse of a lack of appropriate auditing of that department to drag and curtail its granting authority and to basically take it from them unilaterally. Well, nobody questioned that their auditing practices had to be correct ed, but if we looked at1he Auditor's statements yearly, many departments of this government would not have any authority to spend any money.

Almost every single one of them gets a complaint somewhere in the Auditor's report about something they would like to see cleaned up. That is exactly as it should be. The Provincial Auditor should be there yearly, looking at every single department, finding ways to strengthen auditing principles, making sure that those auditing principles are 1 00 percent up to date. That is as it should be, and that is exactly what the Auditor said about MIC. They said there were sloppy auditing practices, but when sloppy auditing practices exist you straighten up, you tighten up those auditing practices.

You do not unilaterally remove the granting authority as was done by this minister. We are also dismayed that in this act, contrary to the words which they had given to our critic, the minister had indicated that within this act there would be the mention and incorporation of the Manitoba Intercultural Council. Well, there is no mention of the Manitoba Intercultural Council. The minister says, they have their own act. Yes, they do have their own act, but in essence she has superseded their act by this act. All they have left under this minister's administration is an advisory role to the minister.

She has taken every other function from them, and yet even in that advisory role she conti nues the farce that she has to appoint their chairperson.

The Manitoba Intercultural Council belongs in the Manitoba Multiculturalism Act as much as the secretariat, as much as the access office , because then it will be clearly defined as important to this minister as her own arm, which according to this act she will still have fully within her disposal to control and appoint her choice of individuals, whether or not they are qualified and whether or not their qualifications have been appropriately evaluated. * (1 530) She goes on to say , wel l, the Manit o ba Intercultural Council is being investigated or review ed.

She has hir ed an independen t consu ltant that will provide that review. She mentions Mr. Don Blair, who, of course , has been,

4520 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MAN ITOBA June 1 0, 1992 at least to my knowledge , given an untendered contract to do this particular investigation, and so we have the circle complete. Madam Deputy Speaker, we have David Langtry, who is the chair of the secretariat, who was appointed by the minister and of course was the candidate in Kildonan , who appoints Alice Kirkland, who was his campaign chair in that

part icular commu nity, and who then appoints Don Blair, who just happened to be the executive director of the Folk Arts Council when the same David Langtry was the president of the Folk Arts Council. It is a very cozy group that is running this secretariat and , of course, within this cozy group we have not had the very concept ouUined over and ov er, and she mentioned it I think at least 1 0 times in her speech-1 0 times in her speech and I quote : Respect means equal access opportunity.

There was no access for anybody else to be the chair of the secretariat except David Langtry; there was no access for anybody else to be the policy analyst except Alice Kirkland; there was no access for anybody else in the multicultural com munity to do this review except for Don Blair. We have no idea whether these people would have been the best qualified. They may have been, and let me say that again, they may well have been the very best qualified for these three functions.

We will never know that, because the minister did not have the courage to practise what she preaches in her bill, which is that she will show respect and that her definition of respect is equal access opportunity. Her concept of equal access opportunity is: I will appoint my friends, preferably if they have been Tory candidates or Tory workers, but I will not allow anybody else to apply for the posi tion, because I do not have the courage of my convictions. I do not have the courage to throw it open to free and open competition to ensure that I get the very best qualified candidates for this job.

The thing that really angers me the most, the thing that I find most offensi ve, is that one of the very characteristics of new ethnocultural com munities is their fear of the political process. They fear it, because they frequenUy came from countries where they were intimidated. They came from countries where they were told what to do by gove rnment officials. They had no choice in the matter. Yet what are we tea ching them here in this pro vince? Are we teaching them that they are to be respected, that their talents will be considered, that they will have equal opportunity? No, not through this minister.

Through this minister we are told : H you join the Conservative Party, if you work as a campaign manager, if you run as a candidate, then you may have equal access opportunity but only then will you have equal access opportunity. pnte�ection] Madam Deputy Speaker, the minister would say, practise what you preach. Well, some day we will be given the opportunity to practise what we preach. That is why we fight legislation that is like this, because what all too frequently happens is that a gove rnment will introduce legislation for their own narrow political purposes.

The government that replaces them, and all governm ents are eventually defeated, quickly latches on and says, aha, now I can use that for my narrow political purposes, and then the next gove rnment gets elected, and they say, I will use this for my narrow politi cal purposes. The tragedy is that nothing ever changes. The only way we can change things is to ensure that when new legislation is introduced, when new ideas are put forward, that we fight the politicization of this kind of function within our society. Madam Deputy Speaker, could you let me know how much time I have left, please? Thank you.

We have the narrow political interests of politicians and political parties put before the broad public Interests of the multicultural commu nity, and that is what is so very sad about this piece of legislation. This piece of legislation should have come into this Chamber with fanfare, with universal support, with no amendments. It should have been one of those pieces of legislation that every individual could have stood in this House and said, is this not wonder ful; we are finally getting a multicultural act. It is going to depoliticize the process.

It is going to recognize that too many people in the multicultural commun ity have not been given equal opportunity in the past. It would enshrine the principles of equal opportunity. Every single thing that this minister has done in her tenure of her ministry has acted against that. Everything that she has put in this act still permits her to politicize as much as she wants the entire process of multiculturalism in the pro vince. So the Multiculturalism Secretariat will still be politicized . The ACCESS office will still be politiciz ed.

The Grants Advisory Council will still be politicized, and the tragedy is that the multicultural community looking to us as legislators to do it differently than

June 10 , 1992 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MANITOBA 4521 those countries of their origin did will learn to their sadness that we are not going to do it any differently unless some day there is a Liberal government. When that happens, let me commi t myself right now, Madam Deputy Speaker, that one of the first acts of this government will be to amend this act in such a way that it will de politicize the process. It will depoliticize the ethnocultural commun ities. It will indeed provide respect.

It will indeed show respect for the ethnocultural communities. pnte�ection] Madam Deputy Speaker, we have the Minister of Labour (Mr. Praznik) chirping in his seat. Well, you know, I cannot be held responsible for the actions of others. I can only be held responsible for my own actions- An Honourable Member: And your caucus? Mrs. Carstalrs: -end the individuals who sit in my caucus. Yes, I can do that.

In my caucus and in my leadership we will depoliticize these institutions, and if we do not depoliticize these institutions under my leadership then I will tender my resignation as their Leader, because unless somebody in this country and in this province is prepared to treat multicultural communities with respect, then we are going to continue to do ad nauseam what we have been doing to them for generations in this country, and it is wrong, Madam Deputy Speaker. *

(1540) Madam Deputy Speaker: The Chair has been advised that the honourable member for Inkster (Mr. Lamour eux) will be the designated speaker on Bill 98 and has unlimited speaking time. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Inkster): Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a pleasure for me to stand here today and speak on this bill.

I must first start off by thanking my Leader for giving me the opportunity to be able to speak on this bill through her designated spot, because as you could tell from the speech that she has given, I would suggest to you that she would have loved dearly to have been able to con tinue her remarks because everyone was listening so attentively to the words that the Leader of the Liberal Party was putting on.

I found it most interesting towards the end of her com ments that the NDP and the Conservatives were trying to justify the politiciz ation of the Multicultur al Gr ants Advisory Coun cil, the politicization of other offices as right. As the Leader of the Liberal Party said in very clear language, it is wron g. It does not matter what this government does to try to justify their actions, it cannot be justified. Madam Deputy Speaker, there are a number of issues that I was wanting to address in this very important bill. I was going to make reference to issues that have come before me in the last couple of years.

I know that it really has been a privilege for me to have been appointed as the multicultural critic for our party, because I would suggest to you that being the critic in the opposition's case, or being the Minister responsible for Multiculturalism is, in fact, one of the best positions that one can be assigned to. I say that because as the critics and the minister we are given the opportunity to go out and speak to and listen to so many different ethnic organiza tions. There are literally hundreds in the province of Manitoba, and I know that I have had an opportunity to meet with a good number.

I do not think I have quite met half of them yet sheerly because of the numbers of different organizations that are out there. But I have met with a good number, and I have had dialogue with vir tually all of the organizations that are out there that I am aware of. That dialogue has occu rred over the last year, year and a half.

I know the last general mailing that I had to the different cultural organizations was in dealing with an amendment that I brought forward in Budget Debate last year in which-a bit later in my speech no doubt I will have an opportunity to talk at length in terms of what actually occurred there.

Suffice it to say, Madam Deputy Speaker, that I treat the appointment as the multicultural critic of our party very seriously because of the educational experience it has been for me persona lly, because I have been able to get such a better understanding, such a better appreciation of the different ethnic groups that are out there, of our society, or in speaking in terms of what makes us Canadians.

I must say from the onset that if at any point in time the minister would like for me to sit down, what I would classify, prematurely, ! would suggest to her that in fact I would on her request if she accepted a couple of fr iendly amendments. We will be proposing amendments to the multicultural act. One of the amendments will be with respect to MIC. MIC should be in this act, and I am going to talk at length about MIC and the reasons why it should be in this particular act. There are other concerns that I have that no doubt are shared with the member for Rossm ere (Mr.

4522 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 10 , 1992 Neu fel d). We are going to be pr oposing amendments, and I hope that the member for Rossm ere, in particular, will be voting with his conscience on this particular amendment that we are thinking of proposi ng. Because even though he might vote for it for another reason than I would vote for it personally, or we would vote for it as a caucus, I am sure that he could not live with his conscience knowing full well that in fact he voted for that amendment.

So, at any point in time that the minister indicates to me that she would be receptive and follow up on amendments, I would be more than happy to be very specific with her in my debate, and if she accepts those amendments, I would love to see this bill then go into the comm ittee stage where we can have input from all members of the Chamber and, most importantly, from all of the different Manitobans that have an impact, and that is every Manitoban who has an interest and would like to come forward and make a presentation.

Again, I have to say from the onset that the bill itself, and I have asked questions during Question Period on a number of occasions as to is this gove rnment going to be bringing forward legislation dealing with the multicultural act as promised in the throne speech? The government's only response was, soon. Well, I give the government credit for introducing the bill and keeping their promise because we in the Liberal Party wanted the bill. So I give them credit for fulfilling that commi tment from the throne speech, and I can say from the onset again that we will be voting for this bill.

We are going to be making amendments, as I say, in hopes that the gov ernment will be supporting those amendments because as we feel that the bill itself goes a long way in making things good in Manitoba. With a few amendments, we will find that this could be even a better bill. In fact, all Manitobans, I believe, would concur with the type of amendments that we are going to be bringing forward.

So what I plan to do is to talk at length about the Manitoba Intercultural Council because that is going to be the major amendment, so that everyone inside the Chamber will have some sort of a background as to what it is that this particular minister is doing to the Manitoba Intercultural Council.

I intend to talk at length in regards to the other amendments that we believe are necessary, so once again that it is not just the minister who is steering this bill past her caucus colleagues without them knowing that there is a better way, that there are things that we can do to make this a better piece of legislation, Madam Deputy Speaker. Well, I wanted to comment on the beginning of what I thought was going to be my speech, but after hearing what the remarks from the NDP and the Conservatives were regarding my Leader, I got a bit off my track. I wanted to talk in terms about what I did last night.

Last night I participated over in Tyndall Park School in a heritage celebration. As we all know the Filipino com munity is celeb rating their 94th independence proclamation of the Philippines, and through the week they have planned a full agenda on their heritage. They have made it open to all of us, to all of the public so that individuals are able to attend, to participate and get a better understanding of the heritage of that one particular community. * (1 550) The Tyndall Park School was the host of one of those evenings.

We got to see last night, children who were participating, and they are primarily from the Tyndall Park School in that heritage week celebration . I saw the folk dances, some other entertainment, got to partake in some of the cuisine. Even though I am talking about this particular evening, I have to qualify it by saying right at the onset that multiculturalism is a lot more than food and dance. Again, I will discuss that a bit later. In respect to this particular evening last, it was most interesting to see one new

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	35-3-83
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	35th 3rd hansardpdf 83.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	6143cbf5a98f75d4c06994b65691a8a55f39d3f0

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