Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 5 (32nd Legislature, 1st Session)

32-1-5

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 Time - 2:00 p.m. OPENING PRAYER by Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER, Hon. D. James Walding (St. Vital): Presenting Petitions ... Reading and Receiving Petitions ... PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. HON. ROLAND PENNER (Fort Rouge): Mr. Speaker, I beg to present the First Report of the Special Com mittee of Seven Persons appointed to prepare a list of members of the St anding Committees ordered by the House.

MR CLERK, Jack Reeves: Your Special Committee of Seven Persons, appointed to prepare a list of members of the St anding Comm ittees ordered by the House beg leave to present the following as their First Report: Your Comm ittee prepared the foll owing list of memb ers to com pose the St anding Committees ordered by the House: PRIVILEGES AND ELECTIONS: (1 1) Hon. Messrs. Pawley, Penner, Messrs. Ans tett, Banman, Brown, Corrin, Fox, Harper, Mercier, San tos, Sher man. PUBLIC ACCOUNTS: (1 1) Hon. Mrs. Hemphill, Hon. Mr. Sch roeder, Hon. Mrs. Sm ith, Messrs.

Anstett, Blake, Eyler, Lyon, Malinowski, Manness, Ra nsom, Sc ott. PUBLIC UTILITIES AND NATURAL RESOURCES:

(11) Hon. Messrs. Evans, Mackl ing, Parasiuk, Mrs. Dodick, Messrs. Doern, Enns, Eyler, Harapiak, Lyon, Orchard, Ransom. AGRICULTURE:

(11) Hon. Messrs. Adam, Uruski, Uskiw, Messrs. Buck laschuk, Carroll, Downey, Gourlay, Harap iak, Man ness, Orchard, Plohman. MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS: (1 1) Hon. Messrs. Adam, Desjardins, Kostyra, Uruski, Messrs. Banman, Buck laschuk , Carroll, Driedger, Gourlay, Mercier, Plohman. LAW AMENDMENTS:

(30) Hon. Mr. Evans, Hon. Mrs. Hemphill, Hon. Messrs. Kostyra, Mackl ing, Parasiuk, Pawley, Penner, Hon. Mrs. Sm ith, Messrs. Corrin, Doern, Mrs. Dodick, Ms. Do lin, Messrs. Downey, Driedger, Enns, Eyler, Fil mon, Graham, Mrs. Hammond, Messrs. Johns ton, Lecuyer, Lyon, Man ness, Nordman, Mrs. Oleson, Ms. Phill ips, Messrs. Plohman, Santos, Steen, Storie. 81 PRIVATE BILLS:

(11) Hon. Messrs. Adam, Desjardins, Hon. Mrs. Hem phill, Hon. Mr. Schr oeder, Mr. Ashton, Mrs. Ham mond, Messrs, Harper, Hyde, Mali nowski, Sherman, Ste en. INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS:

(11) Hon. Messrs. Cowan, Kostyra, Sch roeder, Hon. Mrs. Sm ith, Messrs. Blake, Enns, Mercier, Nordman, Ms. Phillip s, Messrs, Scott, Storie. STATUTORY REGULATIONS AND ORDERS: (1 1) Hon. Mr. Penner, Messrs. Bucklaschuk , Carroll, Ms. Dolin, Me ssrs. Fox, Graham, Har per, Kovnats, McKenzie, Mrs. Oleson, Ms. Phillip s. ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: (1 1) Hon. Mr. Cowan, Hon. Mrs. Sm ith, Hon. Mr. Uskiw, Messrs. Asht on, Brown, Ms. Dol in, Messrs. Filmon, Joh nston, Lecuyer, McK enzie, Scott. RULES OF THE HOUSE:

(8) Hon. Mr. Penner, Messrs. Anstett, Corrin, Fox, Gra ham, Kovnats, Ransom, San tos. All of which is respectfully submitted. MR. PENNER: I move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Turtle Mo untain that the Report of the Committee be received. MOTION presented and carried. MR. SPEAKER: Notices of Motion .. . Introduction of Bill s ... Oral Questions. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE MR. SPEAKER: Honourable Attorney-General. MR. PENNER: Before Oral Questions, may I make an announcement. Mr.

Speaker, with your permission, and that is the Special Committee on Elections and Privileges will be meeting at 10 :00 a.m. tomorrow morning in Room 254. POINT OF ORDER MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Ell ice on a point of order. MR. BRIAN CORRIN (Ellice): Yes, Mr. Speaker. I didn't hear you and it may be my hearing, I didn't have my hearing aid on when you were calling out, but I didn't hear the calling of Ministerial Statements. I was wondering whether you omitted to do that. I believe there is a statement to be made and I didn't hear the calling. MR.

SPEAKER: There was a report given at the time of the calling of that. If it's the wish of the members to resort back to Ministerial State ments. If it's agreed. (Agreed) The Honourable Minister of Education.

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 HON. MAUREEN L. HEMPHILL (Logan): Mr. Speaker, I'm delighted to be standing before this House to make my first statement. MR. SPEAKER: Does the Honourable Opp osition House Leader have a point of order? MR. A. BRIAN RANSOM (Turtle Mountain): I just wonder if there are copies of the statement, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Would the Honourable Minister make copies available to the Chair and to the Opp osition. MRS. HEMPHILL: We will mak e copies available. MR. SPEAKER: Order please.

It is our practice that when a Ministerial State ment is given that there are copies provided at the time for the Opp osition. If the Min ister does not have them would she be willing to make her statement tomorrow? MRS. HEMPHILL: I ask leave of the Ho use to make the statement and distribute the statements after. I have an urgent time problem related to getting infor mation out to school divisions. MR. SPEAKER: The Honour able Op position House Leader. MR. RANSOM: Mr.

Speaker, we would be quite pre pared to revert back to Ministerial State ments at the end of the Question period if the Minister could have her statements available by then. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister. MRS. HEMPHILL: We are in the process of having cop ies delivered to the House immediately. They will probably be here while I'm making my statement. MR. SPEAKER: It would be satisfactory to the House to report back to Ministerial State ments at the end of question period if that is convenient to members. Per haps we can proceed then to Oral Questions. ORAL QUESTIONS MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. STERLING LYON (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Ho nourable First Minister. Could the First Minister advise the House, Mr. Speaker, to whom the Inf ormation Services Branch of govern ment is now reporting? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister. HON. HOWARD R. PAWLEY (Selkirk): Mr. Speaker, the In formation Service Branch reports to my office - Executive Council. MR. LYON: Mr.

Speaker, in view of the fact that up until Novemb er 30, 19 81, and for many many years preceding that, the Inf ormation Services Branch of 82 government reported through either the Department of Government Services or one of the forebearers of that department, could the First Minister explain why there was a change made in the reporting of the Information Services Branch, the Inf ormation Servi ces Branch being the branch that is responsible for all publications, for all news reports that go out under the name of the Government? MR. PAWLEY: Mr.

Speaker, from time to time there is a change in respect to different responsibilities insofar as government is concerned. Insofar as information services are concerned there has been a transfer of responsibility to myself, indeed, there has been no change in respect to policy pertaining to the Inf orma tion Service branch. MR. LYON: Mr. Speaker, could the First Min ister then tell the House the person on the Executive Council staff to whom Inf ormation Services is now reporting. MR. PAWLEY: Mr.

Speaker, I would thank the Leader of the Opp osition for his questions but we could most fruitfully discuss the reasons for the transfer of res ponsibility during the time of my Estimates. MR. LYON: Mr. Speaker, I again repeat the question, could the First Minister not advise the House the name of the member of his staff to whom Inf ormation Ser vices is now reporting? MR. PAWLEY: Mr. Speaker, again, all matters pertain ing to the department that I am responsible for, includ ing Inf ormation Services, can be best dealt with dur ing the normal process of such discussion as to detail. MR. LYON: Mr.

Speaker, I wonder if I might perhaps then refresh the Honourable First Minister's memory by asking, if I may, I' ll go right through his staff, is the Information Services Branch now reporting to Mr. Michael Deeter, the Clerk of the Council? Mr. Speaker, is the Inf ormation Services Branch now reporting to Mr. William Regehr, the Princip al Secretary of the First Minister? MR. PAWLEY: Mr. Speaker, I would ask you whether or not, indeed, there is not a rule against repetitious questions. I do not intend to be repetitious, Mr.

Speaker, by responding, as I have responded before this is a matter that can be more appropriately dealt with under Estimates. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. I believe that all members are aware that any Minister may choose or choose not to answer any question. I was not aware that the questions had been repetitive. The Honourable Leader of the Op position. MR. LYON: Yes, Mr. Speaker, then I will ask a differ ent question. Is the Information Services Branch of Government now reporting to Mr. Dan O'Con nor, the Communications and Co-ordination Sec retary of the Premier, who was described in a recent

article as being the best pol itical strategist that the Premier has on his staff, is that who Information Services is report ing to now?

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opp osition. MR. LYON: Well. Mr. Sp eaker, having hadthat marve lous display of open government. on behalf of the First Minister refusing to answer a question with respect to the propaganda machine that he has establ ished in government after only three months in office.

Perhaps we can get on to the regular business of the House and ask the First Mi nster to tell the Ho use what other propaganda changes he and his colleagues have made in the th ree months they have been in office; how many other new PR people have they brought on staff to propagate their rather funny ideology among the people of Manitoba? MR. PAWLEY: Mr. Speaker.

I find it indeed very very puzzling coming from the Leader of the Opp osition that indeed was the architect of a brand new scale of propaganda over the last four years. the hiring of communicators. which we have discussed at great length in this Legislature before. massive advertising campaign, which was launched dur ing the previous fiscal year. that the Leader of the Opp osition now has the audacity to indeed impinge upon the integrity of people that are now working Information Services. Mr.

Speaker. if the Leader of the Op position has spe cific complain ts in regard to any change of policy pertaining to the Inf ormation Services Branch let him now bring forth those comp laints in specific form but, otherwise. Mr. Speaker , I suggest it is highl y unfair to the public servants within the Information Services Branch for the Leader of the Op position to reflect on the personnel in that Branch. MR. LYON: Mr.

Speaker. far from reflecting on the personnel of the In formation Services Branch. my honourable friend, by his intemperate behaviour this afternoon. is reflecting on his own office and indeed is causing great questions to arise among all of us as to why this change would be made. Would the Honour able Minister be willing enough in this movement of free and open government that he talks about all the time to advise the House and the people of Man itoba why he thought it necessary to change the Inf orma tion Services Branch from reporting to Government Services to reporting to his department? MR. PAWLEY: Mr.

Speaker, again, I am quite ready, in fact, quite anxious to deal with this in detail during my Estimate Review. Mr. Speaker , I ask you whether indeed there are any rules insofar as questions of a repetitious nature? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Pembina. MR. DONALD ORCHARD (Pembina): Thank you, Mr. Speaker , I have a question for the Honourable First Minister.

Knowing the First Minister's awareness and concern for the pligh t that a group of working Man ito bans find themselves in and being set upon by the Winnipeg Taxation Office. namely, that group of commissioned automob i le salesmen in the Province of Man itoba who are being reassessed by the Win nipeg Taxation Office for retroactive taxation years, I would like to ask the First Minister what he and his 83 good office are doing to help that group of working Man itobans in their current financial distress? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister. MR. PAWLEY: Mr.

Speaker , it's unfortunate but the Member for Pembina doesn't appear to be conscious of the fact that he is asking a question that would be better posed in the Federal House of Commons. MR. ORCHARD: Mr. Speaker , I believe that anytime a group of working Ma nitobans are being beset upon by the Winnipeg Taxation Office, that is a matter of inter est for the government of the Province of Man itoba. Mr.

Speak er, my question quite simply to the First Minister is that in view of the fact that any additional taxation which the Winnipeg Taxation Office will glean retroactively from these people becomes a share of the Province of Man itoba taxation revenues, I suggest the question is quite in order. Mr. Speaker, I would like to know what the First Mi nister and his good office are doing to assist that group of working Man itobans. MR. PAWLEY: Mr. Speaker. again, we're hearing repetition of previous questions.

The question relates to a ruling by the Federal Department of Revenue in regard to the collection of taxation in the Province of Man itoba. The processes, the decisions that indeed have been made, have been made on the part of public servants in Ottawa so that the honourable member is asking his questions in the wrong Chamb er. Mr. Speaker , you should indeed, I suggest, point that out to the honourable member. MR. ORCHARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, under ordinary circumstances I might find some semb lance of agreement with the First Minister but when the Province of Man itoba has been singled out by the Federal Taxation Department for this retroac tive review of commissioned salesmen - only Mani toba - I suggest it is in the interest of the Man itoba Government to protect those individuals. I ask the First Minister why their request to his office for assist ance, which is now two months old, has been com pletely ignored by his office and staff? MR. PAWLEY: Mr.

Sp eaker, again, I have to repeat, because apparently the Memb er for Pembina did not hear accurately, this is a matter that is of federal ju ris diction. a matter which must be dealt with in respect to the Federal Government of Canada is concerned. It is a matter that is the responsibility of the Minister of National Revenue at the federal leve l. There are serious questions indeed that should be raised per taining to this matter.

Tho se questions should be raised in the Federal House of Commons rather than the Memb er for Pembin a app earing to wish to some way or other to draw a great deal of attention to him self in this Chamber by raising matters of a federal nature. MR. ORCHARD: Mr. Speaker, I find it indeed unfor tunate that this th ree-mo nth-old government, claim ing concern for all Man itobans, is prepared to aban don a group of working Manitobans to an arbitrary tax

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 rule singling out Manitoba alone, and I ask the First Minister -(I nterjection)- MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. The Honourable House Leader on a Point of Order. MR. PENNER: I would ask that you rule as to whether or not the Member for Pemb ina is not simpl y repeat ing, in the same words almost identically, the question already raised, and whether this is not in abuse of the House. How many times can the same question be asked by the same member? I would ask you to rule on that. MR.

SPEAKER: Certainly from the Chair it seems that the same, or very similar question, is being posed by the Honourable Member for Pemb ina. I'm attempting to give all members as much latitude as possible within their questions, hoping that they will be ques tions and not be sp eeches to the Op position. I believe it would be fair to say that the question period is generally looked upon as time belonging to the Op po sition. If the Op position wish to use theirtime in what ever way they wish, that is not too far from the rules, I'm prepared to allow that to happ en. MR. ORCHARD: Mr.

Speaker, then might I ask the First Minister if he, or his office, or indeed the Minister of Finance for the Province of Manitoba, are aware that the Winnipeg Taxation Office has singled out Man itoba as the only province in Canada and singled out a group of commission salesmen retroactively to reassess their taxation and, if he is aware of that, does he have any concerns whatsoever for those Manito bans who are being asked to pay additional taxes at a time when he well knows that all Manitobans would dearly love to keep additional income in their pock ets to maintain their famil ies? MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Finance. HON. VIC SCHROEDER (Rossmere): Thank you, Mr. Sp eaker. The Member for Pemb ina asks whether we are aware that Manitoba is the only province in which salesp eople are being audited and in which there is a change with respect to the federal imposition of income tax. I was not aware of that.

I can assure the honourable member that I will look at it this afternoon and, if that is the case, then certainly we will be making representations to Ottawa to request that our citizens be treated in a fash ion no different from the citizens of other provinces in this country, that salesp eople be treated in Manitoba in the same way that they would be treated in other provinces in this country. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Memb er for Roblin Russell. MR. J. WALLY McKENZIE (Roblin-Russell): I thank you, Mr. Speaker , I have a question for the Honour able Minister of Finance.

I wonder, can the Honour able Minister of Finance tell us if the government plans to change the ad valorem formu la of gasoline taxation in the province. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Finance. 84 MR. SCHROEDER: Mr. Speaker , that is a policy mat ter that is before the government. MR. McKENZIE: Mr. Speaker , I don't think I heard the Ho nourable Minister's answer. I wonder if he would repeat it, I am sorry I did not pick it up. MR. SCHROEDER: Mr. Speaker, the honourable member has been a memb er of this Chamber for what, 25 years?

I am sure that in that time he has learned that Budget items are discussed at Budget time. MR. McKENZIE: Mr. Speaker, I wonder then if the Honourable Minister can advise the House or Manito bans if it is the plan of the government to adjust the ad valorem tax because of the fact that gasoline went up 10 cents a gallon this week in our province. There are a lot of people phoning and inqu iring if we can expect an adjustment or a change in that policy. MR. SCHROEDER: Mr. Sp eaker, the changes in our taxation rates and policies will be announced as they take effect as has happened in the past. MR.

SPEAKER: The Hon ourable Member for Turtle Mo untain. MR. RANSOM: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance I think will be aware that approximately on a six-month basis the assessment of the tax has been adjusted as the price of gasoline has risen. There has recently been a rise in the price of gasoline. Does the Minister intend to have an assessment done of the average price in Winnipeg in order that he might increase the tax? MR. SCHROEDER: Mr. Speaker, that is a policy mat ter. It is always under consideration. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR.

LYON: Further to the question of the Honourable Memb er for Turtle Mou ntain, I am not asking the Min ister to divulge any policy changes he may have in mind. I am asking the Minister whether he and his col leagues intend to obey the law of Manitoba which is that the provincial tax will be adjusted after other taxes have gone up or other price increases have taken place. Does he intend to obey the law or is he going to change it? MR. SCHROEDER: Mr. Speaker, like all memb ers of this government, of course, I intend to obey the law. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for La Verendrye. MR.

ROBERT (Bob) BANMAN (La Verendrye): Mr. Speaker , a question to the same Minister, I wonder if the Minister could inform the House whether or not the Man itoba Government will be adding a new tax on gasoline and diesel fuel. MR. SCHROEDER: Mr. Speaker, again, that is a Budget question which I am sure the honourable

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 memb er can wait until Budget time for an answer too. MR. BANMAN: A sup plementary qu estion, Mr. Sp eaker, to the same Minister. I wonder if the Minister could confirm that the government will be levying a new tax on gasoline and diesel fuel to pay for the setting up of ManOil. MR. SCHROEDER: Mr. Speaker, I have already ans wered the question, I believe, about six times. MR. BAN MAN: Another supplementary, Mr.

Speaker, I wonder if the Minister could confirm that the govern ment will be paying for ManOil by levying gasoline tax which the consumers in the province will have to be paying for. MR. PENNER: On a point of order again, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Government Ho use Leader on a point of order. MR. PENNER: In terms of the question period, that is, word for word with one change of ph rase, the ques tion which was just asked and answered for the second time, I suppose that the honourable members opposite just don't have questions they care to ask that have any meaning. MR.

SPEAKER: I do not intend to tell the members of the Op position what questions they should ask. The Honourable Member for Portage la Prairie. MR. LLOYD HYDE (Portage la Prairie): Mr. Speaker , I have a question I would like to direct to the Minister of Comm unity Services and Corrections. Have the tend ers been called as originally promised for construc tion of a new mul timil lion dollar indoor recreational comp lex on the grounds of the Man itoba School for Retarded in Portage la Prairie? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Com munity Services. HON. LEONARD S. EVANS (Brandon East): No, Mr. Speaker. MR.

HYDE: To the same Minister then, Mr. Speaker , in view of the fact that the tenders were to be called in February, can the Minister advise this House when the project will go to tenders? MR. EVANS: The matter is under review, Mr. Speaker. MR. HYDE: Mr. Speak er, I am afraid I did not hear the answer. MR. EVANS: Mr. Sp eaker, I stated to the honourable memb er and to the members of the House that the matter is under review presently. MR. HYDE: A further supplementary, if I may, Mr.

Speak er, in view of the fact that there are several hundred residents of the Ma nitoba School whose conditions mean that they can never be accommo dated anywhere outside of that building, can the Min- 85 ister assure those residents and this Hous e that con struction on this long-awaited recreational comp lex will get under way soon? MR. EVANS: Mr. Speaker , I don't what else I can add to my last question. We are very cognizant of the problem and we believe that the residents of that par ticular school should have the best recreational facili ties available. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Swan River.

MR. D.M. GOURLAY (Swan River): Thanks, Mr. Speak er, I would like to direct a question to the Minis ter of Mu nicipal Affairs and ask him if he can advise the House as to when he will be announcing the amounts, payments, of the 19 82 municipal tax sharing payment. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Munici pal Affairs. HON. A.R. (Pete) ADAM (Ste. Rose): In response to the Member for Swan River, I will be making that announcement when I am ready to make it, Mr. Speaker. MR. GOURLAY: I wonder if the Minister ... MR. SPEAKER: Order please, order please. Order please. MR.

GOURLAY: I have a further supplement to the same Minister, I wonder if he could indicate the amount of the payments which he expects to be announcing soon. MR. ADAM: No, Mr. Speaker. MR. GOURLAY: I would just like to remind the Minis ter that the municipal people are anxious to get this information I might add. I wonder, another supplementary to the same Minis ter, if he could advise the House whether or not he will be making any adjustments to the urban suppl ement that we initiated some two or three years ago. MR.

ADAM: The Member of Swan River will know that the Department of Urban Affairs now is under the Minister of Urban Affai rs, my colleague. MR. GOURLAY: I would like to rephrase this ques tion. I'd like to ask the Minister of Mu nicipal Affairs, the urban supplement was paid to all of the municipal ities, not just the City of Winnipeg and I'm just wonder ing if he is planning on changing the formu la that has been established some two or th ree years ago. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Emerson. MR. ALBERT DRIEDGER (Emerson): Mr. Speaker, I have a question to the Minister of Mu nicipal Affairs.

I wonder whether the Minister could indicate whether he's in favour of selling Local Government District vested land.

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Mu nici pal Affairs. MR. ADAM: That is a policy matter, Mr. Sp eaker, and it's under review at the present time. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Emerson. MR. DRIEDGER: Mr. Speaker. a question to the same Minister. There is a pol icy in place right now that he is administrating through his office. I'm wondering whether he is in agreement with that kind of policy. MR. ADAM: Again to repeat, in answer to your repeti tive question, the policy of Crown land sales is under review at the present time. MR. DRIEDGER: Mr. Speaker.

I want to make a cor rection in this. The question was whether the Minister was in favour of selling Local Government District vested land, not Crown lands. I wonder whether he co uld possibly clarify that. MR. ADAM: Mr. Speaker, the policy to allow LGD. Local Government Districts, to sell their land wai:i initiated back in 19 75. It was a policy that was under taken by the previous Sch reyer administration. There was two years of negotiations with the LG D's to bring about that program and was foll owed up by the outgo ing administration and that policy will still co ntinue as far as we're co ncerned. MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Tuxedo. MR. GARY FILMON (Tuxedo): Thank you. Mr. Speaker, unfortunately yesterday the time for Ques tion Period expired while I was in the midst of ques tioning the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs and so co nsequently I'd li ke to continue with my questions to him. I'm aided by the fact that I can co nfirm through the use of Hansard that although the Minister gave us a rather lengthy review of what his department has done with the problem of urea formald ehyde foam insulation. he did not respond to the question which I asked.

Sir , which was. what does the Minister intend to do on behalf of thousands of Manitoba homeowners who are faced with the prob lem of having a house that is unmortgageable and unsaleable because of the existence of urea-formal dehyde foam insula tion in their homes given the fact that the federal government has offered only $5,000 in comp ensation for a job that may require anywhere from $1 0,000 to $20,000? What does he intend to do on tha t prob lem on beha lf of the se Manit oba homeowners? MR. SPEAKER: The Minister of Consumer and Cor porate Affairs. HON. EUGENE KOSTYRA (Seven Oaks): Yes. Mr. Speaker.

I indicated yesterday in some detil the posi tion that has been taken by the Province of Manitoba to the Federal Government so that they accept their full responsibility. I might add that the position of this government is the same that was advanced by the previous government and is the same position that's 86 being advanced by all provinces across Canada, say ing that the Federal Government has a responsibility in this area and should accept that responsibility and we will co ntinue on behalf of Mani to bans to press the Federal Government to accept their full responsibility. MR. FILM ON: Mr.

Speaker, I hope that he's a lot more forceful about it than the Minister of Finance who has been a doormat for the Federal Government at recent meetings and his First Minister as well. MR. SPEAKER: Question please. MR. FILM ON: My second question. Mr. Sp eaker. is in view of the fact that the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs the other evening announced to the Man itoba Landlords' Association some of the details of his proposed rent cont rol legislatio n, can he share with the House today the context of the leg islation that is proposed for rent control in this province? MR.

KOSTYRA: I think that will be better discussed when the bill is introduced to the House, Mr. Speaker. MR. FILMON: Yes, Mr. Speaker, well then I wonder if the Minister co uld tell the House today just what exactly is the Rent Regulation Bureau. MR. KOSTYRA: Mr. Speaker, as I indicated in res ponse to the previous question that will be part of the legislation that will be introduced and discussed and debated at that time. MR.

FILM ON: I wonder then, in view of the fact that he does not ch oose to share with the House today what exactly the Rent Regulation Bureau is, would he tell the House why the Civil Service Commission is adver tising under the heading of the Department of Con sumer and Corporate Affairs, Rent Regulation Bureau for 10 positions at the present time. MR. KOSTYRA: Mr. Speaker, it's obvious that there is going to be legisla tion with respect to rent control in the province and it's obvious that there's going to be staff needed to implement that legisla tion once it is passed. MR. FILMON: Mr.

Sp eaker. are we to understand that these 10 people will be hired to do nothing until the Minister decides what the text of his legislation is and presents it to the House. and then takes it through all of the comm ittee procedures and the various parts of leg islation, in addition to the people who are presently on staff in the Tenancy Arbitration Bureau and the Rentalsman's Office? These additional 10 people will sit and do nothing? MR. KOSTYRA: Mr. Speaker, I did not hear a question out of that speech by the member opposite. MR.

FILMON: My question is, will these people do nothing until he decides that he can get his legislation through the House? MR. KOSTYRA: Mr. Speaker, no.

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for St. Norbert. MR. G. W. J. (Gerry) MERCIER (St. Norbert): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Honourable Attorney General. Mr. Speaker, in view of his directive to the Manitoba Liquor Control Commission that South African wines and spirits be removed from the shelves because of that country's polic ies, will the Honour able Attorney-General advise whether the publi c of Manitoba can expect any action with respect to wines and spirits from Russia, Poland, Hungary, Chile and other countries? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. MR.

PENNER: Mr. Speaker, let there be no doubt that this Government, and I hope the members opposite with this government, will protest racism and the denials of civil li berties wherever they occur. Whether they occur in Chile, El Salv ador, the Sov iet Un ion, Poland, wherever, the US A; yes, in Canada, we will be prepared to protest them.

The question will always be in what form and under what cir cumstances and I want to, for example, advise the House that at the time that martial law was declared in Poland, I was the Duty Minister and I was call ed upon by the Canadian Polish Congress to make the facilities of this House available for the demonstration wh ich in fact took place and I did it.

It may be, and I delib erately use that hypothetical, that I would not necessarily app rove of the particular form of demonstration there or elsewhere, but I thought they had the right to demonstrate and that we as a government - and the First Minister made our position very clear on that with rspect to Poland - but you see what is forgotten in that question is that the position of South Africa is uniquely abhorrent; it has been recognized as such by the United Nations; it is the subject of resolutions by the United Nations and I think this Ho use should be aware of what those reso lu tions are because what I and the government are foll owing are the resolu tions of the United Nations.

South Africa is the only country which is the subject of a U.N. boycott and a U.N exclu sion and part of that resolu tion I would lik e, and on a suitable occasion I will read the whole of that resolution into the record, to read the penulti mate part: namely, that the U.N. requests all governments and organizations to co operate with a special committee in the implementa tion of the present resolutions which embody the notion of boycott.

So that with respect to South Africa which is recognized as having, not only as a matter of law but as a matter of constitution, a racist policy embedded into it and has carried this out; 20 mill ion blacks exploited by 4 million wh ites; that this is uni quely abhorrent and we recognize that in the step that we took and we make no apolo gies for it ... MR. SPEAKER: Order please. Order please. I'm sure all members are aware that the question period should not be used for making speeches as it is a time for questions. · The Honourable Member for St. Norbert. MR. MERCIER: Mr.

Speaker, the Hono urable 87 Attorney-G eneral not having answered the question whether he would take any action with respect to wine and spirits from Russia, Poland, Chile and other coun tries, I can only presume that he supports the policies of those countries. Mr. Speaker, I'll move unto another matter. There is a Throne Speec h reference to the Law Courts Build ing. Can the Honourable Attorney-General indicate whether there has been any substantial change in the plans or proposed site for the construction of that building? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Attorney-General. MR. PENNER: Mr.

Speaker, no I'm pleased to advise the House that there has not been any substantial pl ans and that what is going forward in fact is a com plex which has originated many years ago, first with the present government and carried forward, I will readily admit, by the members opposite when they were in government but we are the party, as govern ment, which has finally given the go ahead. MR. MERCIER: Mr.

Speaker, in view of the fact that my clear understanding that the plans for that project were to be complete in la te 19 81 or very early in Janu ary 19 82, can the Honourable Attorney-G eneral explain the reasons why the project will not be pro ceeding until late fall of 19 82 as indicated in the Throne Speech rather than immediately? MR. PENNER: Mr. Speaker, the reason is that in fact the plans are not yet ready for tendering.

We are advised by the Department of Government Services and the architectural consultants in that department and by the architects themselves, that the plans will be ready for tendering one hopes by the end of May or just before the end of May, and that based on that time rine and the time taken to get and analyze tenders, it is expected that we will be in a position to go ahead with the construction just about the end of August, the beginning of Septe mber, so it's just a question of the preparation of the plans. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Fort Garry. MR. L.R. (Bud) SHERMAN (Fort Garry): Mr.

Speaker, my question is to the Honourable Minister of Health. I would ask him whether the Man itoba Health Services Commission has subm itted a counter proposal on fees to the Manitoba Medical Association as of yes terday, March 2nd, in keeping with the 30-day agree ment under the existing contract? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Health. HON. LAURENT DESJARDINS (St. Boniface): No, Mr. Speaker, but as soon as the Commission is advised that meaningful discussion will continue, they certainly will accommodate the MM A. MR. SHERMAN: A supplementary, Mr.

Speaker, would ask the Minister whether the Manitoba Medical Association has indicated to him that it considers the Health Ser vices Comm ission now to be in breach of

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 the 30-day clause in the existing contract? MR. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, yes it is fair to say that they have informed me that they feel that we have broken the agreement. I have also said publicly that I felt they had broken the agreement by ch anging a discussion that is no lon ger meaningful - I think this is the word that is used, that a meaningful discussion should be held. I think that the member answered this in the Throne Speech debate of yesterday. It is impos sible to negotiate with a gun at your head.

It is impos sible to negotiate with a group that say that even if there was an agreement reach ed that they would not forward it to their membership unless we ag ree to bring in legislation that they're seeking to have. MR. SHERMAN: A final supple mentary, Mr. Speaker, can the Minister advise the House whether the Mani toba Medical Association has indicated to him that because in its view the Health Services Comm ission has breach ed the agreement; that there now are no obli gations on the part of either side to move off the polarized positions that they're in at the present time? MR. DESJARDINS: No, Mr.

Speaker, I might say that as far as the government is co ncerned we're anxious to see the negotiations resume as soon as possible, as long as it's going to be meaningful and fruitful negoti ation. I would hope that this start fairly soon. As far as the Manitoba Health Services Commis sion, the Commission is ready to have a cou nter prop osal anytime this evening, tomorrow, anytime at all , as long as they resume negotiations. MR. SPEAKER: Order please. The time for Oral Ques tions has expired. The House agreed earlier to revert to Ministerial Statements. Is the Minister of Education now prepared to proceed?

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS MR. SPEAKER: The Minister of Education. MRS. HEMPHILL: Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the Ho use, first of all , for giving me very special permis sion to speak at this time. It just proves that not all learning takes place in the classroom. I wish to announce significant measures to ensure greater equity in the allocation of provincial support to school divisions. The Education Supp ort Program will be retained for 19 82, and, as prescribed by regulations and legisla tion, it will be increased by $46.5 mill ion to $469.1 mill ion to reflect increases in the Consumer Price Index.

The total direct provincial contribution to education of $332.8 mill ion will co ver 54.4 percent of the pro jected $61 1. 3 million public schools will spend in 19 82, up from 53.3 percent of school expenditure la st year. While retaining the Education Supp ort Program in its cu rrent form, the government will implement signif icant ch anges in education financing through sup plemental grants, to help co rrect certain identified weaknesses in the distribution of grants under the existing Education Su pport Program.

These weaknesses incl ude: 88 Disadvantages in raising special! levy revenues faced by divisions with lo w property tax assessment bases. Balanced assessment per pupil, by which the tax base of divisions can be com pared, ranges from a high of nearly $26,000 to a low of under $8,000.00. Disadvantages faced by some lower-spending div isions because their 19 80 expenditure levels are used to define the ceiling of "eligible expenditure," which in turn, is used to calculate 19 82 sup port under the Edu cation Su pport Program.

El igible expenditure under the Educational Sup port Program for 19 82 ranges from $2,133 per pupil in Dauphin-Ochre Sc hool Divi sion to $3,244 per pupil in Winnipeg Sch ool Division No. 1. The "mill rate crisis" which results when such di visions must try to remedy disparities in educational opportunity with special levies from a relatively low tax base, and/or with grants artificially limited by the eligible expenditure ceiling built into the Education Su pport Program.

The ch anges in education financing which our government will introduce takes the form of supple mental grants totall ing an estimated $1 2.4 milli on and com posed of: Eq ualization Su pplements for divisions with a bal anced assessment per pupil of less than $22,000; and El igible Ex penditure Supp lements to offset the wid ening disparities and eligible expenditures between divisions under the Educational Supp ort Program.

In addition, adjustments within the Educational Su pport Program are made as foll ows: - Basic Operat ing Su pport has been increased by $1 0,200 - from $87,400 to $97,600 per basic operating unit. - Trans portation support has been increased from $31 0 to $350 per transported pupil; and the mileage for loaded miles on a school bus in excess of 50 miles (80 km) per day has been inc reased from 60 cents to 80 cents per mile. - Print and Non-print Materials Sup port has been increased from $25 per pupil to $30 per pupil. -T he 90 percent of eligible expenditures li mit on operating support has been eliminated.

The Public Schools Finance Board will be incorpo rating the above ch anges in its estimate of support payable to school divisions and districts for 19 82, and the complete estimate will be provided to each school division with return of its financial budget as has been the practice in recent years. Also in 19 82, the government will implement two special grants programs to provide assistance to: - the almost 300 "small schools" in the province; and - to establish a student travel program to enable students better to experience Manitoba's rich cultu ral and geo graphic diversity.

I will be announcing details of these two programs la ter. All of the above measures are designed as improve ments upon, or supple ments, to the Education Sup port Program for the cu rrent year, during which time the government will co nduct a thorough review of education financing. I wish also to announce a special grant to the Win nipeg Sch ool Division No. 1. A special grant of $2 mill ion to the Winnipeg Sc hool Division No. 1 in recognition of the special needs of the inner city stu dents they are serving through enriched and special programs.

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 The Winnipeg Scho ol Division contains schools in communities where over 45 percent of family heads are unemployed, where over 60 percent of students come from single parent families, where there are student transfer rates of up to 80 percent in a year, where Native students make up 14 percent of the div ision's popu lation and immigrants make up 9 percent of the division's popu lation. The division has res ponded to these needs with enriched pupil-teacher ratios, language development programs, increased community liaison and development, nursery and alternative programs.

The special grant is a recognition of the Winnipeg School Division's unique level of need and program commitment, both of which are significantly in excess of other divisions in the province. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable MemberforTuxedo. MR. FILMON: Mr. Speaker, although I haven't had time to peruse in detail the announcement in the text of the increases and compare them to similar announ cements last year in last year's Estimates, it is always a welcome announcement to hear of greater support to education in this province.

It strikes me, of course, that last year our government put through increases in excess of $70 million on the same basis, a much higher percentage, something app roaching 30 per cent, to restructure the whole Public School Educa tion Financing Program in this province. The Minister refers to intentions to further alter the structure of public school financing in the province and I remind her that the report of the Assessment Review Com mission is due momentarily.

It would be wise not to make such structural changes until she sees what effect any moves to adjust assessment throughout the province may have on her financing plans. Obviously, the Min ister has indicated that she is going to carry on the program commitm ents in approxima tely the amounts that were announced by the former Minister of Education last year in his endeavour to increase the provincial supp ort for education.

I have'nt had an opportunity to compare whether it meets the expecta tions of what that Minister said, but I also know that the Minister is fighting for dollars amongst her Cabinet col leagues for other programs which presumably have priority as well. So I commend the Minister on her announcement and say that we will be interested in the Budget to see just exactly how this will come out of the taxpayers' pockets in the future. Thank you. COMMITTEE CHANGES MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Memb er for La Verendrye. MR. BANMAN: Before the Orders of the Day, Mr.

Speaker, I wonder if I could substitute some names on a committee. On Privileges and Elections I would like to substitute the Member for Virden for the Member for St. No rbert, and the Memb er for Turtle Mountain for the Member for La Verendrye. ORDERS OF THE DAY THRONE SPEECH DEBATE Cont'd MR. SPEAKER: On the proposed motion of the Hon- 89 curable Member for The Pas, a proposed amendment thereto by the Leader of the Op position. The Honourable Member for Stur geon Creek has five minutes remaining. MR. JOHNSTON: Well, Mr. Speaker, I only have the five minutes and I probably will do a little summing up.

But first I would lik e to say that it was pretty obvious at the caucus meeting today of the government side. They decided to go back in the room and say, "Ques tion, don't answer those fellows, take it as notice," and the Premier has obviously shown that he can't stand the heat in the House because he's produced some arrogance today that he used to accuse other people of. Mr.

Speaker, let us go back to what I was saying about the complai nts that we had from the govern ment for four years that nothing was being done, that people were leaving the Province of Manitoba and for th ree years there was a plan worked on to provide jobs for the people in the Province of Man itoba, for child ren of th ose people and the grandchildr en of those people for years to come. Let us picture, Mr. Speaker, a potash plant in the western part of the province worth $400 million of construction, that would have 1,2 00 people working in construction for three years and, Mr.

Sp eaker, a permanency of about 500 jobs in the area. Let's take a look at the work that was being done to see the Ma nfor expanded to increase jobs in The Pas, and it certainly should be done. Both of those, by the way, were going to be joint ventures; government, industry working together; the Federal Government being involved as far as Manfor was con cerned; a joint venture. So we have several million dollars there; about $15 0 million with an increase in jobs in the construction period.

A refinery that would cost in the neighbourhood of $600 million produces about - if it goes the same as Granby in Quebec - about 1, 500 permanent jobs in construction for four years and then permanent jobs of about 500 to 600 in the plant; $700 million approxi mately at today's dollars. And, Mr.

Speaker, the Power Grid that would have increased employment in Manitoba by several million dollars, over maybe 200 million or better being spent in this area and you add up when you take Limestone into it, the construction of Limestone, another $2 bil lion, this province was looking at $3- to $4-bi llion worth of expenditure which would create jobs in this province for the long-term future, and have a long terrn construction on the Nelson, would probably last for 25 years, uninterrupted. What's the consequence if we lose it, Mr. Speaker?

Well, the consequence is this: we just heard from the Minister of Education that she's going to be spending more money. We know from the Federal Government that your transfer payments are going to be less. We know that the economy of Man itoba, the car sales and other things are down. You're going to have less tax dollars corning in. All of these things are happ ening and the most important thing of all, Mr. Speaker, is that we will export. We will continue to export our young people to work in the resource provinces elsewhere.

Does anybody on that side of the House believe that ManOil or any other oil company, private or public, is capable of doing what that plan is that we had before? -

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 (Int erjection)- and the Al can one. I repeat, Alc an was a tenant, would be a tenant in a hydro plant owned by Hydro and they would pay $600 mill ion app roximately toward the co nstruction of that plant, and they would only have a guarantee of power for 35 years. And as as the member, The Minister of Energy and Mines wants to argue, the price of the power has not been set. Mr.

Speaker, when 40 percent of the co st of making alum inum is hydro power -(I nterjection)- Thank you, Sir -A nd you're spending $700 mill ion to build a refinery in somebody's province, you're going to make sure your power is not cut off. The Que bec Government when it nationalized and took over the power plants in Quebec, left Alcan with their own power plants in that province. It is a policy of theirs that they do and must have a security of power. So, Mr.

Speaker, I don't think the socialist philo sophy wants to see advancement in this province because they don't know how to handle that kind of people with initiative. But it's on their heads, Mr. Speaker, and it better happen fast, because your financial problems within this province are here and they're going to get worse very fast and now is the time to move. Let's forget the dreams and the fantasies that we're talkin g about and the visions. Let's act now for the people of Man itoba. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Dauphin. MR. JOHN PLOHMAN (Dauphin): Thank you, Mr.

Speaker, we have listened to the Honourable Memb er for Stur geon Creek discu ss once again the Conserva tive dreams and fantasies as he referred to them of megaprojects and I'm going to at this time discuss the serious concerns and problems facing Man itoba and facing the Dauphin co nstituency today. I consider it a great honour and privilege, Mr. Speaker, to be able to give my inaugural address here this afternoon.

I say this sincerely, that it is an honour to be here with so many distinguished people on both sides of the House, tha t's true and as the representa tive in the 32nd Legislature and because of the Dau phin Cons ti tue nc y have cho sen me as their representative. I want at this time to congratulate you, Mr. Speaker . I genuinely believe that you will bring honour to your position here. I want also to congratulate our Pr emier, a very special person, members of the Cabinet and all ML A's on both sides of the House, who make up the 32nd Legislature.

I especially want to mention and congratulate the Honourable Member for The Pas and the Honourable Member for Burrows for their elo quence in moving and seconding the Spee ch from the Throne. Mr. Speaker, as I stand here I'm mindful of the great ch allenge that lies before us.

It is a chall enge that I take seriously and with a sense of great responsibility The ch allenges before us have never been greater and I believe the Th rone Speech read by Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor demonstrates that this Govern ment is will ing to tackle those ch allenges and prob lems in a realistic way and that we are not going to sit back and watch li ke the Conservative Government did before us. Before I speak briefly about some of the greatest problems facing my co nstituency of Dauph in, I want 90 to briefly share some of my back ground and my con cerns and my personal feeli ngs with you.

I proudly speak of my days on the farm where I was born and raised, the trees, the breeze through the leaves, the animals, the sweet smell of freshly cut grass and the stones I pick ed. -(l nterjection) That's right, from the Interlake. I learned to love the land and in our family of seven children, I learned to share, to com promise and to be strong when I had to. Later, I had the privilege of working in Man itoba's North.

I worked with pride on the longest direct cur rent transmission li ne in the world at that time, cl imbed those majestic towers and experienced the true serenity 200 feet in the air with the co ol northern breeze bl owing in my face. Mr. Speaker, I experienced firsthand the harnessing of the mighty Nelson. After graduating from Red River Community Coll ege and the University of Manitoba, I moved to Dauphin where I taught school for eight and one-half years and served as a town councillor there.

During this time that I spent in the North and between the time of my university days, something very beautiful happ ened to me -(I nterjection)- right, I met and married my dear wife, Pat, and we now have three ch ildren, Rochelle, Jody and Robbie whom we love dearly. I want to talk briefly about the sacrifices a family must make when one member of that family is involved as a poli tician.

I want to tal k about this because as the Honourable Member for Elmwood said Monday, polit ics has been described as the highest call ing, the noblest profession, yet politicians are always abused, never really trusted and the sacrifices they and their family make not very often talked about. I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that all of my honourable friends here can identify with that sacrifice.

Each of our situations is different; but for me, I must say goodbye to my three child ren on Sun day night when the House is in Ses sion; I say goodbye, they say goodbye; yet they do not know why I go and do not return until Friday. We, as do many of you, my honourable friends have a very close and a very loving family. Yet our child ren who are making huge sacrifices had no say in the decision and know not why the y make them. They just know, Mr.

Speaker, that daddy is not there to tuck them in, to hold them close, to listen to their oh so important problems, to cry with them, to sing with them, to laugh with them and to pray with them. That hurts me deep inside but I know that I must do what I have to do and I hope that they will one day understand that because of their sacrifices life will be a little better for all of the other Rochelles and Jodys and Robb ies in our pro vince, yes, and wives and husbands too. Th at's what politics is about, but it is not what it's talk ed about But why did I beco me a politician if the pain is so great? Why?

Because li ke you I have a duty to my province and to my country because we only live once on earth and lif e can be so short, as I found out when my brother was cruelly and savagely crushed and twisted by the power take-off of his tractor and stack mover on his farm while his wife and children waited at home preparing for Ch ristmas for the husband and father who would never come back; and, yes, because my call ing came and I was needed and because I was inspired to go into public lif e by people li ke our Hon ourable Premier, His Excellency Ed Sch reyer, the Honourable Stanley Knowles, Ed Broadbent and yes,

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 for the interested Members Opp osite, the late Right Honourable John Diefenbaker. But, more than that, I was inspired by one event, one event more than any other and by one person more than any other in a very different way. The event was the provincial election of 19 77 which saw the defeat of the Schr eyer Govern ment and the person was the Honourable Leader of the Op position who is unfortunately not here right now. On that night of the '77 election, things changed in Manitoba.

The power that was humane and compas sionate in the hands of the Sch reyer Government became painful and cruel in the hands of the present Leader of the Opposition. For inasmuch as he can lecture so disdainfully, so condescendingly and so indignantly the Members of the New Democratic Party here on Reaganomics and on his version of fairness and justice and free enter prise, this professor is incapable of comprehending the simple needs of average people. He cannot com prehend, Mr. Speaker, because he has, I believe, never experienced the simple needs of average people.

Yet, he has the audacity to single out backben chers here and tell them they have made a mistake, that somehow they have made a horrible mistake in representing the New Democratic Party; tha t, in his words, the Schr eyer retreads are responsible for the policies that went into the Throne Speec h. Well, Mr.

Speaker, this wet-behind-the-ears back bencher wants to inform the Honourable Leader of the Opp osition that we all contributed to the formulation of that Speec h, the Honourable Memb er for The Pas, the Honourable Memb er for Ru pertsland, the Hon ourable Member for Burrows, the Honourable Minis ter of Education - all of us. In a demonstration of democracy that you will never grasp, that you will never comprehend, Leaders of the Opposition and you my honourable friends on the other side, we all had a part.

We are part of that Sp eech and we are very proud of these Schr eyer retreads because they first put the Honourable Leader of the Op position on that side of the House. We are not naive little creatures gone astray, led blindly by some doctrine. We know where we are going my honourable friends and we are not afraid to stand proud and tall and tell the people of Man itoba of our beliefs.

So more than anyone else the Honourable Leader of the Opp osition inspired me to come here to be part of a responsive compassionate party that works and cares for all of the people of Manitoba and I can assure my honourable colleague that I will be inspired to work ever harder for the people of Manitoba whenever he rises in this House and I will be inspired to work to ensure that he stays on that side of the Ho use where he will remain relatively harmless. Period! Paragraph! I want to make it very clear to the honourable members that even though he inspired me to come here, Mr.

Speaker, I don't think he inspired you, and I am sure you are going to tell him that very clearly in the near future. I wish now to turn briefly to my constituency. It is a beautiful constituency nestled at the foot of the Riding Mou ntains to the south, the Duck Mountains to the west, stretching to Lake Winnipegosis and Lake Mani toba at the north and down and including Dauphin Lake on the east. 91 A MEMBER: Good fishing down there? MR. PLOH l\ll AN: There used to be.

It is ironic that the setting which gives my consti tuency such great beauty also is the source of great problems for it lies directly in the path of the Riding and Duck Mou ntain watersheds. Mr. Speaker, we recall the Honourable Member for The Pas saying in moving the Sp eech from the Throne that every ML A thinks his or her constituency is the best, that the lakes are the clearest and that the fish are the biggest. Well, Mr. Speaker, I no longer can say that about my constituency because I know differently.

Dau phin Lake used to be crystal clear with the best pickerel in the province, but it has been largely destroyed by the carelessness of man. All levels of government have contributed to improv ing drainage in the area over the years, but in a largely unplan ned way ditches were joined to rivers and in some cases rivers were widened and deepened in the upper reaches but not in the lower reaches.

Now in periods of excessive runoff, heavy rains, a quick thaw, the water gushes down from the mountains, down into the natural portions of the waterways which cannot take the increased flow and over the fertile farmland tak ing with it the rich soil of the Dauphin Val ley and depositing it in the Dauphin Lake forming deltas and marsh areas in the mouths of the rivers. About twelve streams and rivers flow into Lake Dauphin, Mr. Speaker, and only one, the Mossy River, flows out ward draining Lake Dauphin into Lake Winnipegosis at the north end.

That one outlet channel cannot han dle the water as quickly as it enters the Lake and therefore it is currently impossible to accurately regu late the level of the Lake. Da uphin Lake is sick right now. Heavily silted in the river outlets, fish can no longer get up the rivers to spawn and a th riving fish industry has been lost, hope fully temporarily. The Lake level cannot be effectively regulated so consequently must be maintained at a lower than desirable level to accommodate sudden rains or excessive runoffs. There are serious prob lems, Mr.

Sp eaker, problems that must be addressed by this government, problems that will test the sincer ity of our conviction to conserve our natural resources and our natural environment. It will test the sincerity, Mr. Speaker, because it is going to take money to turn Lake Dauphin around and then to begin to undo the damage that has been caused by human beings. The citizens of the Dau phin Constituency are con cerned and they want action on this severe and acute problem. Ac tion, Mr. Speaker, that will be construc tive and long lasting, not merely cosmetic as that propsed by the previous government.

They were proposing to raise the Lake level, as the story goes, against the protests of the farmers - this is not a story - and they were going to buy up all the surrounding farmland wh ich would be fl ooded. So much for free enterprise, Mr. Speaker. Their proposal would not address the long-term problem of the Lake and would not effect a lo ng-term solution, so while I give credit to the Opp osition for trying, Mr. Speaker, I say long-term solutions are needed and I am confident this govern ment will find those long-term solutions.

Firstly, the outflow channel, the Mossy River, must be opened up, excavated so that it can handle the

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 volu me of water required to effectively regulate the Lake at a desirable level.

Secondly, and while this is taking place, conserva tion districts must be set up on the west of Lake Dau phin on the Duck Mo untain watershed to facilitate proper management and pl anning of the whole area, not municipality by municipality as has been done, but the whole area must be planned, and then with dams and catch basins the waterways can be con trolled to halt the buildup of the silt into Lake Dauphin which comes about when the water rushes unim peded from the Riding Mo untains and the Duck Mountains.

Thirdly, the excess silt must be dredged out of the river outlets so that fish can once again th rive in the Lake and the recreation potential of Dauphin Lake can be restored. This is a serious conservation and environmental problem, Mr. Speaker, that beco mes more acute each passing year. If we fail to take action to co rrect it now we will fail on many more in the future. I will be asking my government to take such action so that the beauty of the Lake and the co nfidence and pride of our peo ple in the Dauphin Constituency can be restored once again.

Many of our other problems in the Dauphin Consti tuency are being addressed by the Spee ch from the Throne. Increased educational funds for low assess ment school divisions is very important in my consti tuency and the announcement by the Honourable Minister of Education today in the House will go a long way to alleviating the disparities in the former govern ment's education support program, which really left gross inequities. It is particularly important in the Duck Mountain Sc hool Division which has suffered disadvantages for many years because of low prop erty tax base.

The complete review of educational finance is necessary and I am pleased that it will be conducted this year. It is necessary so that a meaning ful and equitable means of financing education can be put in place for the benefit of future generations. I am pl eased as well to see the review of the munici pal social assistance taking place this year as well. You know under the "welfare is cheaper than jobs" philosophy of the previous government municipal and social assistance costs in the town of Dauphin have skyrocketed.

The town has become the regional cen tre for municipal welfare and it is now seeking special help from the province to offset the staggering admi nistrative and pay-out costs to the town and I am working presently with the Minister on this problem. The emphasis by my government on co nstruction is needed facilities will bring great benefits to Dauphin, hopefully a new senior citizens home and the renova tion and construction of the Dauphin General Hospi tal delayed by the previous government. I find it, Mr. Speaker, rather ironic that the Honourable Member for St.

Norbert was just asking about a delay of a few months on the Law Courts Building when his govern ment delayed the co nstruction of the Dauphin Gen eral Hosp ital for four years. Hop efully they will pro ceed this year, Mr. Speaker, in fact they must proceed. We have a high number of senior citizens in the Dauphin area and the Critical Home Repair Program expansion will bring much needed repairs to their 92 homes and at the same time provide jobs for the unemployed. I am pleased as well to see that first contract legisla tion will be brought in by my government.

This hope fully will co me in time to assist the workers at Black woods Beverages who have been on strike since Decemb er of la st year in their efforts to gain a first contract. Mr. Speaker, the increase in funding to regional develo pment corporations will be particularly signifi cant in my constituency. The area I represent is cu r rently one of the most economically disadvantaged in the province; an industrial base is sadly needed. The former government's policy of handing out interest free forgivable lo ans to certain businesses has not addressed this problem.

One of our greatest hopes for regional industrial development lies in the Parkland Re gional Develop ment Corporation. With its energy and enthusiasm coupled with adequate government support, it should be successful in bringing industry and permanent jobs to the Parkland region. Areas of my constituency such as Winnipegosis, Meadow Portage and the Waterhen can benefit immensely from fish and timber processing industries.

The Native people in those areas, too, are anxious to be a part of this develo pment, to work to be self suffi cient; I am pleased to see that this government is addressing the problems of our Native people. The natural and human resources are there, Mr. Sp eaker; they need only be harnessed. Agriculture is the backb one of my constituency. Farmers have suffered tremendously under the inac tion of the previous administration. A beef stabiliza tion plan was overdue even before the November elec tion.

Beef producers are now frantically trying to hold on, while my government makes careful pl ans for a program that is needed to make up for the lack of action by the previous administration and by the Fed eral Government on this serious problem. The burden on farmers is heavy and the people of the Dauphin constituency are about to receive another staggering blow. If the Federal Government has its way, Mr. Speaker, they will continue their crusade to undermine the rail transportation system of Western Canada.

A hearing is scheduled for March 30 in Fork River in my constituency at which time the Canadian Transport Commission will hear an application for the abandonment of the rail li ne from Sitton to Fork River and Winnipegosis. Twenty miles of rail line that will hurt the small farmers of my co nstituency co nsider ally, all for the saving of a few corporate dollars. This, at the same time, that the Federal Government wants to bow to the CPR and inc rease the statutory Crow rate.

When the resolu tion co mes before the House, I will show that the federal proposal could eat into as much as 50 percent of grain farmers' profits in my co nsti tuency and it is a simple matter of dollars and cents, my honourable friends, Mr. Speaker. Our small rural farmers cannot afford an inc rease in the Crow rate. I will fight with my coll eagues to turn aside the Federal Government's attack on farmers and on the farmers of Manitoba, in particular. Mr. Speaker, I wish to add my support to those of my coll eagues who believe that ML As need more resour-

ces to serve their constituents in the professional manner they deserve. I have been fortunate in Dau phin to be able to share a constituency office with my MP , Laverne Lewycky. Sin ce the end of November I have worked on over 250 individual cases received in my office by phone, mail or in person. I have met with more than 75 individuals in my office by appointment. During the past three months I have spent an average of th ree days a week in that office and needless to say the response has been overwhelming, but that is as it should be, Mr. Speaker, that is why I was elected.

Now that the House is in Sess ion, however, I cannot spend the time required in my constituency office in Dauphin. I believe, Mr. Speaker, that adequate resources to provide for the hiring of staff are necessary and justif able and I am pleased that we will be looking into this matter. I ask the members of the Op position to work with us on this issue in the public interest, in the interest of serving our constituents well. Mr.

Speaker, we, in the Dauphin constituency need access to government service; we need increasing adult educational opportunities; we need increased decentralization of our government services in our communities; we need the kind of human and humane services our people deserve. Our recreation and tourism potential must be deve loped and I can assure my honourable friends here and the people of my constituency, Mr. Speaker, that I will work for all of these principles and programs dur ing my term in office. Mr.

Speaker, as I said at the outset, it has been an honour and a privilege to address this Ho use this afternoon. I look forward to working with each of you, my honourable friends, to make our province a better place for our children. MR. SPEAKE R: The Ho nourable Member for Roblin Russell. MR. McKENZIE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I am indeed pleased to stand in my place once again and renew the acquaintance, friendship of this House, this beautiful Chamber and wade into the debates of the subject matter that is before us this day which, of course, is the Speech from the Throne. Mr.

Speaker, I rise very quickly to support the amendment that is proposed by my Leader. I hope that I can explain my reasons for supporting this motion before I sit down. Mr.

Speaker, before I do enter my Address I must bring greetings to Her Honour from the people of Roblin constituency, she and her aides who carried out their duties and responsibilities so skilfully and so ably and with all the decor that's known to that high office, especially her being the first lady Lieutenant Governor in our province, I feel real proud that I happen to be a member of the Ho use when tha t his tory, change or benchmark, or change in history took place. Al ways, Mr. Speaker, I am impressed again by the 21- gun salute that we get on opening day.

There's not many veterans left, I guess, in this Chamber. One is the Member for St. Boniface, the Honourable Memb er for Concordia, Fort Rouge, Minnedosa, Virden, there's about six or seven of us left. There was at one time quite a number of Second World War veterans, in fact 93 some First World War veterans sat when I first came into this Cham ber. I noticed, Mr. Speaker, that the number of ladies that were in that Honour Guard that day, which I think was a first for me to see that number, and there was qu ite a substantial number of ladies in the Honour Gu ard when Her Honour was inspecting the guard.

I also noticed in the band as well that there were two or three of the fairer sex blowing horns. That made me feel good because I'm an old time musician; I' ve blown horns half my life and I always felt that some of the military bands could use a lot more ladies. When we used to play in bands, very very rarely that a girl would pla y in the band; but the music I think is much better now that the ladies are taking part and parcel of it. Mr.

Speaker, I would like to congratulate all the members who are in this Cham ber that have come back here and now are tak ing their places as we pro ceed through the proceedings of this First Session of this particular Legislature. I am indeed pleased again to see so many of the fairer sex adorning these Chairs. While over the years that I have sat here, we've had a lady Speaker; we've had a lady become one of the First Ministers of the Crown and a lot of firsts in that field. I am very comfortable here to be with all the beauty and charm that, you, of the fairer sex bring to this room.

I look forward to working with you and look forward to your contribution in the Debate. I think many times over the years that the male side of the issue, the stale thing that's been going on in the British parliamentary system in this Chamb er for many many years deserves the words and the wisdom of only a woman can pro vide. I' m sure Man itoba is going to be better; Canada is going to be better for the experience. Mr.

Sp eaker, I note some of the new members read ing their speeches in this Chamb er and you'll learn maybe after - of course, it will depend on how the Speaker rules - but I recall when I first came in here and I think I was sitting up in one of those seats up there. I worked, it was a Trans-Canada Pipe ... MR. SPEA KER: If the honourable member reflecting upon the speeches of other members, he should be aware that is not according to our rules and I would hope that he does not do that in the future. MR. McKENZIE: I' m sorry, I didn't hear you, Mr. Sp eaker, I'll put on the hearing aid. MR.

SPEAKE R: If the honourable member has his ear piece in place now, I believe I heard the honourable member referring to other members of the Chamb er in the manner in which they had made their maiden speeches in this House. I'm sure that the honourable member is aware that is not according to our rules. I hope that he does not repeat such remarks. MR. McKENZIE: Well, Mr. Speaker, if in any way I impeded upon any of the members, I withdraw and I apolog ize to Mr. Speaker.

All I was trying to refer to is in the Debates sometimes, as we sit in this place, precedence will lead us to believe that in many cases we can conduct our Debate in a more me aningful manner by just speaking off the top of our head. The incident I was going to refer to was my first speech and I worked like a beaver at it, got it all printed out

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 and sat over there and read it into the record. I think the subject was the Pipeline Debate and after the speech was over, I remember getting a note from the former Premier, Mr. D.L. Campbell - sitting down at the end there - the Member for Selki rk, Mr. Hillho use.

Anyway, the messages said, "McKenzie you made a fantastic co ntribution to the development of this prov ince but unfortunately we never understand one word you said." So, about six weeks or a month later, I finally got my courage screwed up and rose in my place again to speak on another day and this time I had the subject rehearsed and was able to speak with out notes. These same two gentlemen and a couple of others on this occasion - a note came across, "M ck enzie, thank you kindly, we understood this one." I often think of that, Mr.

Speaker, when I rise in my place and while I'm not a great orator or debater, I like to find that there are times when I can rise in my pl ace and speak without the help of a written speech. Of course, everybody is entitled to his own opinion. Mr. Speaker, I was kind of alarmed the other day when I picked up the Mon day, March 1 st issue of the Winnipeg Sun. There is a picture of a couple of old centurions, my long-time friends and co nstituents in Russell, a Mr. and Mrs. Lewis. They celebrated their 1 OOth and 10 1 st birthdays last year and they're tied into an

article here about discrimination about old people. I, for the life of me, can't understand why the newspaper in its wisdom would tie this lovable old cou ple who are as madly in love today as they were some 70 years or more after they were married than they were the first day they were married, but there they are in this

article with The Sun . It did disturb me somewhat because I know of no discrimination in any way, shape or form that's ever been imposed upon those people or that they have ever imposed upon anybody. Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of the ML A's I haven't had the honour and privilege to meet yet. I look for ward to sharing your acquaintance. Maybe some of you have never had the privilege of visiting the Roblin Russell co nstituency which I always call God's coun try.

It 's one of the nicer parts of the province, rural Man itoba, because I have the Duck Mo untains on the north side of it and Shell mouth Dam; lots of water; and then the Riding Mount ain Provincial Park. Two-t hirds of the Riding Mountain Provincial Park skirts the southern part of the co nstituency; it's an interesting area, good fishing grounds. If any of the members or their families are ever in the area, I hope they would be kind enough to start about Binscarth, or Sh oal Lake, or Rossburn and ask where I live and most people will guide you accordingly. Mr.

Speaker, the Throne Speech, first, in my send ing notice to my co nstituents as to what this Th rone Spee ch said and what it didn't say, I am at rather mixed feelings as to the way it was put together and some of the th rust of the Throne Sp eech. I heard the Honourable Member for Daup hin, who preceeded me a few minutes ago, telling all the me mbers of their caucu s took

part in the preparation of the Th rone Spee ch. That's been the tradition on our side for many years. I have had the honour and the privilege of pre paring a Th rone Spee ch for a long time when we sat on government side, so it's nothing new. But the questions that are being raised to me, Mr. 94 Sp eaker, by my co nstituents today and, of course, the Honourable First Minister during the election cam paign, never spelled out how we are going to pay for all these services that he has laid through the medium of this Throne Sp eech and where the money has come from.

No doubt, the Budget will come down in due course, Mr. Speaker, and likely give us some insight as to what is going to take place as far as the finances are concerned but a lot of people are asking now what's going to happen or where are we going to raise the funds for all these various programs. I suspect, Mr.

Speaker, if the First Minister when he responds to this message on cl osing the debate on Tuesday, can pro vide me with enough answers to the questions that I am going to raise today, he might even get my sup port, but I am not sure as I stand here yet until he speaks, unless he will tell us if the y are going to increase the sales tax in this province. Is that going to be part and parcel of the programs that we can expect? Are we going to return to the highest income tax rates of any province in Canada? Is that part and parcel?

Are there going to be massive new capital taxes imposed upon the people of this province? I would like to know that and I am sure every citizen in this province would like to know. Are we going to go back to the mineral acreage taxes that we were so familiar with when they were in government before? Are we going to have the succ ession duties levied on the people of this province once again? Are we going to have the gift taxes levied again on the taxpayers of this province? Those are a few of the questions, Mr.

Speaker, that I hope the First Minister will answer when he rises in his place on, I believe, it's Tuesday night. The options, Mr. Speaker, are rather interesting. But I think the province has listened to them very skillfull y; they have elected them as government; the govern ment is in place and I think we deserve some answers to those questions. Mr.

Speaker, I can only refer to an editorial from the Rossburn Review which crossed my desk this week on this same subject matter, and it is interesting what this man has to say about the condi tions in our province today and Canada, and asking basically the same questions that I am asking earlier on this Throne Sp eech. This learned editor says, Mr. Speaker, "The economic events presently occurring in Canada in a worsening situation are certainly a flash back to pages from the past.

An earlier genera tion lived through difficult times 50 years ago and people also were losing their homes in the cities, fore clo sures were a com mon event and keeping the farm operating became a serious struggle. Of course in the thirties there were few jobs, little money was available but the costs of the goods were very little. Today's prices are sky high and surging on towards the moon; over a million unemployed and farming is once again caught in the squeeze. Every paper and political party knows who to blame the problem on, as long as it's someone else.

Our suggestion is that we must pass a message on to government at all levels from hard pressed taxp ayers right across this country: 'Please remove your hand from our pockets. Let us spend that dollar first on consumer goods and the services and machi nery we require for our farming operations.' "Go vernment will still get their hands on that dollar but let it be spent first on things that are needed and

get the economy back on the track. Then, and maybe then only, will we find people getting back to work in our country without it being accomplished the way government bureaucracy knows best to accomplish it. Their answer is make-work projects whether the goods and services are needed or not, or of any real value. Yes, we must remind you, the government way, of course, is only paid one way by another dip into your pockets through tax money. Certainly, the ideas make more sense than people arguing over which party has the political answers. It makes little differ ence wh ich political sentiment we believe in.

None of the political parties really merit a passing grade when the final examinations are written. They would have been admirably dressed for a social ball back in the bygone era." That is the reading the editorial of the Rossburn Review into the record and it certainly is a privilege and an honour for anybody in this House to read policy or read from articles into the record, no prob lem with that at all . Mr. Sp eaker, I wonder if the First Minister in hi s wisdom, could hopefully give us some ideas as to what is going to happen as far as that gentleman is concerned who wrote that editorial. I wonder, Mr.

Sp eaker, what our agricultu ral people are saying after they have heard of this Budget, or the small business, or the homeowners, Mr. Speaker. One of the first questions that was raised to me on the weekend to ask the First Minister and his govern ment: what are they going to do about the hydro rate? Are you going to take the freeze off the hydro rates? I know, Mr. Speaker, the First Minister went around this province stumping the election and he said some nasty things about the hydro freeze, and I should read a couple of them if I could.

It 's from the New Demo cratic Party Caucus Paper No. 12 , where it says and is signed by Howard Pawley, Leader. He says here, "The Conservative Government has wasted mill ions of tax dollars on a needless Man itoba Hydro-rate freeze." That is the First Minister who said that. The Conserva tive Government has wasted mill ions of tax dollars on a needless Man itoba Hydro rate-freeze. He goes on further down in the

article and he says, "The Tory freeze on Hydro construction has hurt the Manitoba economy, time has shown that the phony" - now listen to this - "the phony hydro-rate freeze is need lessly hurting Man itoba taxpayers." - statement of the First Min ister. Now I am sure on Tuesday night when he rises in his place, he will explain to the people of the province what he meant, and if, in fact, they are going to take the freeze off Hydro. I hope that the First Minister will dispatch my words to them and make sure that he includes that in his reply, Mr. Speaker. Another problem, Mr.

Speaker, that I would li ke to address to the First Minister and to his caucus and that is, my constituency has been blessed with one of the new, thriving industries in the province. CSP Foods Crusher Plant is almost completed west of Russell at Harrowby and we are indeed most pleased to have that developme nt, and the spin-off effects are already in place. But, Mr. Speaker, there are some concerns being raised by the crushing industry, not only in this province, but all across Canada, I think that deserve the attention of the House and should be brought into this debate. This is an

article that came out of the 95 February 10 th issue of The Russell Banner, and it says, "Western crushing almost through," signed by some chap by the name of Sm yth. Mr. Sp eaker, apparently the rapeseed-crushing industry is facing real problems in Western Canada, while at the same time it says here, "A rapeseed granola crushing plant has been recently built in Windsor, Ontario, and another 600 tonne-a-day crushing pl ant has been announced at Hamilton recently." And the crushing industry goes on and says here, Mr.

Speaker, "That was the gloomy word that came from general man ager John Sm yth of Un ited Oilseeds Limited. He said, "Crow is coming home to roost and if it isn't changed the western crushing industry is through. In fact," he said, "there can be no meaningful economic devel opment in Western Canada agriculture until Crow is reformed." Mr. Speaker, this learned gentleman went on. He said, "Western rapeseed crushers have been betrayed.

They have built their plants in Western Can ada, and the encouragement of the Provincial Govern ment, but mostly because of the Federal Transport Minister at the 19 70 Western Economic Op portunity Conference, that they would end this descrimination against processing in the west and put processed oil and raw seed on an equal transportation basis with the east." Ottawa hasn't reacted. I am wondering if the First Minister and his government and this Minister of Agri culture, are going to react to this problem because it goes on here in the

article and this gentleman says, "B ecause of Crow, crushers in Europe, Japan, Korea and Brazil can import Canada's rapeseed; they can crush it and then they can undersell Western Cana dian crushers in world markets with Western Cana da's oil and meal. So, Mr.

Speaker, I hope that the First Minister will address that subject matter when he responds or, if not, that this Minister of Agriculture will reply to it at the earli est date and see if we can't help save the oil crushing industry at Harrowby and at Al tona in this province, a very viable industry and one that deserves the full attention of this government. Mr.

Sp eaker, also in sorting through the election material that the New Democratic Party kept putting at my door when the election was, I finally got time to read some of it here just in the last few days and there were some very interesting promises made in this document if one was to read through it.

They say here, "with ManOil and Hydro we can develop programs to guarantee," listen to this, "guarantee that no Manito bans lose their homes." Now, when is that going to start taking place, "that no Manitobans lose their homes, or farms?" It adds farms, due to high interest rates; that no farms and no homes are going to be lost. Now when, and that's a promise. It says down at the bottom, "that we can guarantee," and I hope the peo ple in this province take a look at this document. The First Minister's picture is there and it's signed and guaranteed. So, Mr.

Speaker, I would ask him, what should the farm community be doing, the number of people that are having problems today economically? Does the Minister think that the program that's already been announced is going to handle all these problems? Did you read the number of bank ruptcies that's proposed in today's newspaper? Can you imagine that you can

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 handle all tho se things; it says there they are guaran teed that they will be handled and they'll be dealt with. So, Mr. Speaker, I would hope that they would give some me aningful answers in the reply, especially from the First Minister when he responds on Tuesday night to that subject. Mr. Sp eaker. the Minister of Agriculture is here and the Minister of Co-operative Developme nt - yes, he's still here. I wonder can I raise the problems of the Manco Industry at Rossb urn and Pilot Mount, the ch eese plants. I know the Member for Ste.

Rose is quite familiar with ch eese plants; he had the Gl enella Creamery for some two or three years on a brochure th at it was closed and we got blamed for it. That brochure covered this province that the Glenella Creamery was closed and the Honourable Member for Ste. Ro se spelt that wisdom around this province. Finall y, Mr. Speaker, when we did get a ch ance to find out what happened, apparently they closed the cream ery up a couple of days to repaint it or put in new furniture. But anyway he is an expert on creameries and I' m quite familiar with how creameries close in his constituency.

I have the unfortunate experience to have Rossburn Creamery sitting idle today with all that stock of cheese there and to the best of my knowledge the Minister of Co-operative Develo pment hasn't been out there yet, nor have I heard of the Minister of Agri culture visiting that pl ant and I wonder maybe if they had been at Pilot Mound. But, Mr. Speaker, there are about 25 workers that are laid off at the pl ant in Ross burn alone and I'm surprised that the Minister of Co operative Development especially hasn't been out there yet.

I am told they are hauling the milk from that area now to Sas katchewan which is most unfortunate, that they are hauling the milk from Man itoba into Sas katch ewan. I wonder if the First Minister can give us some answers on tha t when he repl ies and what are they going to do with that plant at Rossburn and the one at Pilot Mound which are now closed, have that vast stock of ch eese in pl ace. When you read the pledges and the promises that they made at election time, I'm lem.

In the meantime those 25 people are out of e they must have a solu tion for that probwork and I am told this morning that unless that matter is cleared up by the end of this month, at the latest, tho se markets will be lost to Rossburn and Pilot Mound for all time. Those cheese plants will not get those markets back. So, I would hope, Mr.

Speaker, that the First Minis ter of this province, when he rises in his place on Tuesday, will tell the people of Rossburn and tell the people of Pilot Mound wha t this government or these two Ministers have in mind, or how they're going to resolve this problem, or when they're going to resolve it, if at all? I know that the honourable member, the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Co-operative Devel opment is certainly familiar with the problem because he went through the Gle nella one, so he knows how difficult the problems that can leave in a community. Mr. Speaker, I wonder about the beef industry?

I can recall last year the speech es that were made by the Honourable Memb er for Ste. Rose. The Minister of Agriculture down here, the Minister of Highways, and I was leafing through some of those speech es the 96 other day about how they're going to look after the beef industry in this province and, Mr. Speaker, they're government now. But I li stened very keenly to what the Minister of Ag riculture has put in the record already; he says he's studying it. They weren't study ing it when they were in Opp osition, Mr.

Speaker, they had all the answers, they had all the solu tions and they told us exactly how it should be done. I wonder why they're not doing it today; I wonder why the y're not doing it today. It's interesting, Mr. Speaker, it says here cattlemen today are frustrated by the lack of action on this new government, waiting for an announcement. On which base to base production decisions this spring has still not come from the new government. Producers are lo sing money daily and are beginning to be pressured by their banks and not a word; the matter is being studied.

"The urgency of the situation is illustrated by the cl osing of feed lo ts, the increasing number of cow herd dispersals and the co ncern of pack ers over the stability of the industry," an association news release said today. The

article goes on and says, " action by the Provincial Government is necessary, hopefully it will not come too late," the organization concl uded. Mr. Speaker, that's a fair question, why ca n't we apply the band-aid solu tions, at least try, that they offered last year when the y were in Opp osition? Is there any reason why the Minister of Agriculture can't come out in the open and say either he can solve the problem or he'll apply those measures and th ose sug gestions that him and the Honourable Member for Ste. Rose offered to the industry last year? Mr.

Speaker, it's scary, it's scary because that's not what they said when the election cam paign was on; that's not what they told the beef producers at all; that's not what the First Minister has got in this docu ment. He said there would be immediate action taken by this government to deal with these matters. So, again, there's another one that I hope the First Minister will lay on the Table of the House next Tues day night when he rises in his place to close the beef debate on this subject matter. Mr.

Sp eaker, another interesting proposal that was laid on my desk this week, and that is the matter of an ethylene pl ant some place in the province. I haven't had any ch ance to discuss the feasibility of it but apparently it is feasible to put wood ch ips and barley as a base and produce ethylene alcohol. The reason it came to me is because I guess we have a goodly share of the wood chip s of the province in Roblin-Rus sell Constituency and because that constituency has been known for many many years to grow the best malting barley of any jurisdiction in the world.

They finally quit the malting barley co ntest because that area took the trophy every year. I would just ask the Minister of Agriculture if in his wisdom he could take that and check it out and see if it is feasible for some place because there's lo ts of bar ley in the province and we have no problems with the wood eh i ps. I believe somebody told me the other day that the Government of Saskat chewan is considering a plant in Canora, I believe it is, so if it's feasible there I don't see why it isn't feasible in Man itoba. Mr. Speaker, those are about all the things that I had.

I would li ke to have carried on further today and dealt with some matters related to education; to the

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 health delivery system in our province. I would lik e to question the Minister of Health on the development of Rossb urn there; the new hospital is just about co m pleted, and when we can expect the announcement of that. There are many questions raised about the need for personal care home beds in some of the la rger centres of Roblin-Rus sell Constituency which I can raise at a later date.

The Minister of Education, I thank her kindly for rising in her place today and giving us some insight as to educational financing that we can be expecting beca use I have had several calls from school boards wondering just where they are at and when we co uld expect an announcement, so I thank the Minister today for putting that into the record. So, with those few remarks, Mr.

Speaker, I'll take my place but I'll be lo oking very keenly on Tuesday night to what the First Minister of this province says in response to my questions and if he gives me the answers that I expect that he should give me and that will satisfy the people, he might get me to support his Motion, but in the meantime I'm supporting the Motion of the Honourable Leader of the Opp osition until I hear the First Minister's Address. I thank you and I wish you well, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Fl in Flon. MR. JERRY T. STORIE (Flin Flon): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I must say, Mr.

Sp eaker, although I'm on this side of the Ho use, I've noticed a tendency for my chair to tilt to the left. I don't know what that means but I've noticed it. I rise in my place for the first time, Mr. Sp eaker, to offer my com ments to the Assembly. It is indeed an honour and I must, as precedent dictates. congratu late you. It is a pleasure to congratulate on your elec tion to the Chair. I know that you will serve us well .

The task before you is an onerous one and a crucial one to this Assembly and I know that the breadth of your experience and your wisdom will serve to enli ghten and guide us when we stray from the prescribed course. I know that we all thank you for your duties as Speaker of this House. I woul d also li ke to congratulate, needless to say, the Honourable First Minister on behalf of myself and the people of the Fl in Fl on Constituency.

We as nor therners have the utmost faith in the ability of you and your Ministers to lead this province in such a way as to be of benefit to all Man itobans. and if I may speak on behalf of all northerners. we antic ipate a great revitali zation of the northern commun ities by way of oppor tunities and social services. I must also praise and congratulate the members on both sides of the House for their election or their re-election as the case may be.

I concur with the statements made by the Honourable Member for Virden the other day when he commented on the serious nature of the job that we have all undertaken and it is certainly a commitment, as the Member from Dauphin has said, that has ramifications for our family and our friends and it is a commitment that we must. I think, take seriously. I also would lik e to say at this time that li ke the 97 Memb er from Dauphin. I in some ways have to thank the Honourable Leader of the Opp osition for beco m ing involved in this.

I must say that the first time I met the then Premier of the province, his first co mment to me, without any word of introduction, was "Don't you know that socialism is dead?" Well , some five or six months later we find out that that is not true at all. I guess perhaps that, without gloating, makes victory that much sweeter. Anyway, particularly for new members, and I incl ude both si des of the House, it is an honour and a burden to serve in this Ch amber and I know that none of us take it lig htly, and none of us should. For my

part it is an honour to serve the Constituency of Fl in Flon. partly because the former Member for Fl in Flon who served in this House from 19 69 to 19 81, a period of 12 years, served with dedication and integ rity. Mr. Tom Barrow, and I know that many of you knew and respected him, served as I said from 19 69 to 19 81 and that is a long time when you co nsider that unlik e members from the centre of Winnipeg who travel to this Assembly day by day, when you li ve in a constituency such as Fl in Flon which is 500 miles and more away from the Assembly, it's a sacrifice.

The former Member from Fl in Flon was a northerner both by personality and by residence. He was an affa bl e, good natured and warm-hearted man and yet he was bold and action-oriented. If Mr. Barrow was any thing, he was tenacious when he represented his peo ple and I only hope that I can foll ow in his footsteps in that regard. Mr. Barrow co ntinues to live in the commu nity of Cranberry Portage which is 30 or 35 miles outside of Fl in Fl on.

He cho se to remain li ving in his consti tuency and it was a conscious decision for him as it is a conscious decision for the Member from The Pas or the Member from Turtle Mo untain or wherever, and we make those decisions knowing that it is a sacrifice. I know also that it will sadden you to know that Tom has been suffering some ill health and that's extremely unfortunate because I don't think anyone deserved his retirement more than the former Member from Fl in Flon, Mr. Tom Barrow. I know you will all join me when I wish him good health and enjoyment in the months and years to come. The riding which Mr.

Barrow represented and which I now represent is the th ird largest in the province. When I'm serving my constituency it's more than a 20-minute walk. In fact, from Fl in Flon to one of the communities in my constituency is a distance of 300 miles; the community of Nelson House is about 60 miles outside of Thompson. In fact, I have to travel through Thomp son to get there. It's an onerous task; it's a task that Mr. Barrow did, as I said for 12 years, and which he did with style. The centre of the co nsti tuency for me. probably because I live there, of course. is the City of Fl in Flon.

Fl in Fl on, for those of you who aren't aware. is a community of about 10 ,000 people and it was first established in 1927 by the Hud son's Bay Mining and Sm elting Company. The City of Fl in Fl on, we co nsider it - those who live there - an urban center. It shares many problems in com mon with other urban centers across Manitoba and it has certain problems in common with other communities in northern Canada. For example, Mr. Speaker. as some of the members will know, the older sections of

Flin Flon. the uptown area we call it, is literally perched atop of bedrock. It was built there partly because the people wanted to be close to their work and out of necessity the homes that are perched on those rocks are connected by sewer and waterboxes that run on top of the ground, right on top of the bedrock, and the sewer and waterboxes are encased in these boxes and they run together.

It creates a lot of proble ms, and the City of Flin Flon at this moment - and I know they spoke to the previous government about the need for the upgrading of this system that's been in place for 30 years and is in dire need of some upgrading and development One can only marvel really at the ingenuity and determination of the early residents of Flin Flon. One cannot help but be amazed at the persistence that they must have needed to create a town and a com munity and a home for their families in a place that must have seemed at least initially to be a very inhos pitable place. Yes, Mr.

Speaker, the citizens of Flin Flon can and should be proud of their heritage and determination for their efforts have created a viable and a stable community with much to commend it Now, having said that about Flin Flan and, of course, I'm biased, I also must say that I have travell ed rather widely throughout the province and actually lived in southwestern Man itoba and share a farm background with many of the members on both sides of this House, a heritage which, of course, I'm proud of.

As a matter of fact, my parents still li ve in the Member for Turtle Mountain's constituency and I have a great deal of concern and interest in those consti tuencies and I'll be watching with interest how the Honourable Member for Turtle Mountain represents those people who are still very dear to my heart - (I nterjection)- Good Tories! We all have our down falls, we all have our downfalls. Mr. Speaker, - (I nterjection)- that's right as the Honourable Member for Concordia said, "I t's not a perfect world but we're working on it" Mr.

Speaker, Flin Flan has looked forward to work ing with the new government to create an even better pl ace for their families and for their families' families to live. I think the people of Flin Flan remember only too clearly, and remembered on November 17 th only too clearly, the fact that in 19 77, 19 76-1 977, Flin Flan had been promised a provincial building. Unfortunately, we never got a provincial building.

In fact, several days after the election the provincial building sign was taken down and not only was our provincial building in serious jeopardy- in fact it no longer existed - our personal care home which had also been scheduled for completion in the next year was delayed for several years.

However, all things can be forgiven in time and the people of Flin Flan right now are looking forward, as I said, to working with the new government, to working with myself and my colleagues in a spirit of co-operation and a spirit and a feeling that I'm sure that they have that this government will listen to their concerns and will react to their interests. Now, as a mining town, Mr. Speaker, we are vitally concerned with the future of mining in the province and at the same time we're worried about our own futures in centres like Sn ow Lake and Flin Flan.

We're worried in light of the recent problems that the mining 98 industry has experienced in Canada and certainly in Man itoba and we're worried that our futures need to be secure. As a mining town again, one whose major focus in the community is Hudson's Bay Mining and Sm elting Company, which is also a major pollut er, we're concerned about the need for economic secur ity and the security of our future with our pressing need for environmental protection and for our need to protect the health of our families from the effects of air, ground and water pollution. As a northern centre again, Mr.

Speaker, transporta tion and transportation costs are a major factor in the increasing disparity we see between the cost of living in southern Man itoba and the cost of living in North ern Man itoba. Mr. Speaker, just as Flin Flon as an urban center has problems in common with other centers, particularly northern ones, the rest of the riding has similarities with other rural and northern constituencies. Within its electoral boundaries there are two In dian reserves; one at Nelson House and the other at Puka tawagan.

Now these centers are - as I mentioned Nelson House is 300 miles away; Pukatawagan is somewhat closer, it's only 75 miles but there is no road. So when you serve a constituency and when you serve a community like that you have two ch oices; either you charter your own plane or you take a th ree day train trip - not a th ree-day train trip, the train trip there is relatively brief but you have to wait the th ree days for it to come back. So, those are additional problems in serving such a constituency.

Anyway, I met with the Ch iefs of these Bands during the election and both of them, Ch ief Rodney Spenc e from Nelson House and Ch ief Math ias Colom b from Pukatawagan, have extremely high expectations that their needs and their opinions and their concerns will be dealt with fairly and openly with this government. It would not be an exaggeration to say either, Mr. Speaker, that the unemployment on the se reserves reaches 90 percent and more. Nor would it be inaccu rate to say that they feel that they have been neglected and ignored over the past four years.

They are des perately wanting to be consulted and listened to on matters that affect their daily lives. The Constituency of Flin Flon also has four com munities within its boundaries who fall under the jurisdiction of Northern Affairs; the Metis community at Nelson House, the community of Wabowden, Herb Lake Landing and Sherridon. Now these communities range in size from 700 or 800 at Wabowden down to 11 people, I think it is, at Herb Lake Landing, but they're communities nevertheless and they're important. They're important to me and I would hope and I know that they will be important to this government.

I visited these communities in the last month, Mr. Speaker, and I can tell you that they look forward to this government's support for their communities. They look to this government to provide assistance to them so that they can provide their residents with recreational facilities. They need and they want im proved health and educational opportunities and job opportunities.

I can also say that in my meetings with them I noticed that there is a new sense of hope in these communities, the hope that rather than being ignored, or even worse, insulted with offers of welfare, that they can work with and for their own people in

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 their own communities; that they can work with government to help them bring up their standards of living to give hope to the young people and the young families who wish to keep the unique lifestyles of their own communities. Mr. Speaker, where there is hope, there is happi ness. Where there is no hope, there is only despair. In travelling thr oughout my constituency I have sensed the growing spirit of hope amongst the people there. Partly, I suppose because someone was there listening to them, but also, Mr.

Speaker, because they have faith in the Honourab le First Minister and his government; they have faith that this government is committed to social justice. Mr. Speaker, I have been outlining some of the uni que problems which face my constituents. The past four years indeed have been fretful ones for many northerners, but as I have said there is a new hope in the north. Why is that, Mr. Speaker?

Because the present government set out very clearly during the election some forthright and ho nest policies to help northerners in their fight to improve the disparities which exist between them and their neighbours to the south. They are look ing for improvements in terms of educational and health opportunities, in terms of access to housing, in terms of social and health benef its, in terms of access to cultural events, and I could go on and on, Mr. Speaker. The Th rone Speech, Mr. Speaker, contrary to what some members opp osite feel can only add to that spirit of confidence in the new government.

Because this new government has clearly shown, unlike some other governments, we do in fact intend to keep our election promises, these people do indeed have rea son to be hopeful. The Honourable Leader of the Opposition may decry the fact that the Throne Sp eech simply outlines that we intend to fulfil! all election promises, promises we made.

The Honourable Leader of the Op position should remember that it was those promises, that glimmer of hope if you will, which turned the electo rate back to this government and away from the dogma, if I my use the word, of the do-nothing Con servative Government of the past four years. In fact, Mr. Speaker, if I might digress for a moment, the Honourable Leader of the Opp osition is the Leader of the Opp osition because he believes that the government's main task, its main duty, is to sit on its hands.

The results of the last election clearly show that the people of Man itoba do not want a government that will sit on their hands. The Conservative laissez faire governmnet contrasts distinctly with our own policy of making government work for people. Mr. Sp eaker, if I may use an analogy, the province is like an automobile, albeit a moderately priced one at the present time. The present government intends to keep its hands firmly on the whe el and to steer a course through the economic and social side streets of this province.

We will be keeping our senses about us; we will be listening to cues along the byways to make sure that we arrive at our destination and our future in good shape. The former government, on the other hand, preferred to drive with no hands on the wheel, the "lo ok ma, no hands" approach. They tried for four years to drive with no hands and what was the result, Mr. Sp eaker, the Conservative Government 99 careened into a brick wall on November 17 th; that was the result. Now, Mr. Speaker, you may ask what is in the Th rone Speech to stir northern hope? There are many things.

This government has indicated in its Speech from the Th rone that it intends to create a Department of Crown In vestments to review and co-ordinate the investments of various government departments and agencies. The government's investment in Trout Lake Copper Mine in the Flin Flon area is a good example of the kinds of investments which can contribute to the wealth of this province and which should be reviewed by this kind of government agency to ensure that such investments and the terms of those investments are indeed in the best interest of the people of this province. I believe, Mr.

Sp eaker, that over the next several years that the province's investments in the Trout Lake Copper Mine will mean an additional $30 million, Mr. Speaker, of benefit for the Province of Manitoba. That is considerably more, Mr. Sp eaker, than the amount of taxes that HBM& S has paid over the same period of years, I would hesitate to guess. Our government's intention to examine the cyclical nature of the mining industry and to suggest ways of modify ing the effects of such cycle is a meaningful undertak ing if you happen to live in a mining community.

This government is proposing to introduce rent controls to prevent landlords from capital izing on low vacancy rates. Mr. Speaker, in Flin Flon the vacancy rate is and has been zero for the last several years. It is almost impossible to find adequate housing, rental or otherwise, and this is an important measure for the people in Flin Flon. The government also intends to revital ize and expand the Critical Home Repair Program to help upgrade housing in such places as Flin Flon where housing is such a problem. There is hope also, Mr.

Speaker, for the young men and women in areas such as Sn ow Lake and Flin Flon who desire to take advan tage of the increased apprenticeship training pro grams promised in the Throne Spe ech. There is hope as well for the Metis and Na tive people in my constituency. The Th rone Speech and indeed our party at its last Convention has clearly indicated that many of the Native peoples concerns will be addressed in this Session of the Legislature. Our government has sug gested the establishment of the Native Land Claims Comm ission to undertake to deal with this issue promptly and fairly.

There will be new training initia tives for Native people and the expansion of student aid for Metis and Native students. These are meaning ful and worthwhile endeavours. They do give hope to Native people that the future can and will be better. Mr. Sp eaker, this government has made a commit ment in the Th rone Sp eech to work qu ickly towards examining the many environmental issues which face us. This gives the average person the hope that their health and the health of their children will not be sacrificed because introducing solutions to such problems would be too costly.

The working people, many of whom work in the mines, mills and smelters in Northern Man itoba will be gladdened to see this government's intention to increase workers' participa tion in workpla ce safety and health committees and to

Wednesday, 3 March, 19 82 see. finally the appointment of a ch ief occupational medical officer. Mo st of you here do not come from mining com munities nor have you ever worked in mining opera tions, so you cannot know how important it is to these workers to feel that someone cares about their envi ronment and their working conditions. It is extremely important. Mr. Sp eaker, if I may speak sincerely, Canadians are a people of compromise and co-operation, and if I may move away from my speech for a minute I would like to comment on an additional issue, one which is also mentioned in the Throne Speec h.

It is not simply a parochial concern, it is something that concerns us all as Man itobans; it concerns us all as Canadians, and that is on the issue of the federal-provincial relations or the idea or concept of co-operative federalism. Mr. Speaker, Canadians are a people, as I said, of com promise and co-operation. Most Canadians, and I have heard many Manitobans say quite proudly that they are Canadians first and Manitobans second, find a combative and antagonistic posturing of the pre vious government offensive and reprehensible. I bel ieve the people of Ma nitoba will be proud of our stand.

They will accept our voice in federal-provincial affairs as the voice of reason and the voice of the people. We have always solve our internal differences with dialogue and mediation and few people could tolerate the self-righteous and inflexible position taken by the former government. Mr. Sp eaker. if we are to remain a united country and a strong country, then federal-provincial differ ences must be solved by dialogue and discussion and the principles of fairness, the principle of fairness which is a Canadian tradition.

I will conclude only by saying that as a member of this government I am extremely proud of the energy and the scope of the Th rone Speech and I know that it gives a ray of hope to many Man itobans. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER, Harry M. Harapiak (The Pas): The Honourable Member for Emerson. MR. DRIED GE R: Thank you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to be able to participate in the Debate here today. I'd like to make one reference to the prev ious speaker and endorse his comments about Tom Bar row.

I think all members of the House previously have found Tom Barrow to be a man of his word and man of strong principles. Mr. Deputy Speaker. I hope that you would convey my congratulations to the Speaker when he comes back and I would just like to say that I am very pleased to have Mr. Speaker acting in that role. In my affiliation with him in the last years I have found him to be a very fair man and I think he will continue to do that.

I would just like to indicate to him that knowing the members on this side of the House that we will not be the prob lem that he will be encountering, it'll probably be from the government side. I' d also like to welcome all the new members to the Legislature here. I have enjoyed some of the speeches, some of them are pretty testy, and I think it's going to make for good debate. 10 0 I'd also like to pos sibly give a word of encourage ment to the backbench ers on government's side. It 's going to be interesting. I've had that experience for four years.

I'd also like to compliment the new government on their election. I personally can't really agree with what has happened. but then that is the choice of the peo ple and we have to live with that. I'd like to also compli ment the Mover and the Seco nder. Quite a bit of reference has been made to the Seconder on his touch ing on the morality issue and I think it'll probably be referred to again from time to time and if he wants to be the policeman for moral ity on the government side, he's going to be busier than the Premier will possibly be.

I would like to sort of caution the members opposite or the government of the day not to be too conceited. The difference in the election was 3 percent and my feeling would be that you've lost that already and from here you're going downhill and that's a very close margin. I'd like to preface some of my remarks by making reference to my riding, with is the Emerson riding which is a rural riding. It starts off bordering the floodway on the Winnipeg side, so I'm a neighb or to the city members here. It goes all the way down to the American border and all the way down to the Ontario border.

It covers a big geographical area and it's basi cally agriculture and we have 40 small communities and the biggest one probably has a popu lation of about 1, 500, so it makes it a challenge to cover this area. When I looked a the Throne Speec h, being a rural individual, I cannot be like the Member for Robl in who indicated that he could possibl y, if the First Minister would clarify some points, be tempted to support it. I have absolute no confidence in the Throne Speech at all.

When I read through the Th rone Speech I think it's sort of a motherhood type of thing and I think the people of Man itoba are going to be deceived. They will be deceived by what they are reading

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	32-1-5
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	32nd 1st hansardpdf 5.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	614585ec4d0ff264c4ec2afb2a00dd9b1d37ea41

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