May

27, 2009

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVI No. 27

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Today the House of Assembly would like to welcome a group of six Levels I, II

and III students from Basque Memorial School of Red Bay in the District of

Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, a group of students that I had the pleasure of

meeting just a few short months ago in their own school.

Welcome to the House of Assembly.

Those students are accompanied by their teacher, Ms Elaine Halbot.

Again, welcome to the House of Assembly.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The following members' statements will be heard: the hon.

the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair; the hon. the Member

for the District of Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune; the hon. the Member for the

District of Burgeo & LaPoile; the hon. the Member for the District of

Ferryland; and the hon. the Member for the District of Baie Verte-Springdale.

The hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in the House today to congratulate Amy Park, a fifteen-year-old native

of Forteau, Labrador, and a student at Mountain Field Academy, on being selected

the provincial finalist in the 2009 Canada Day Poster Challenge for Newfoundland

and Labrador.

Mr. Speaker, the Poster Challenge program was created in 1987 and encourages

young Canadians to learn more about Canada, which makes them even more proud of

their country and strengthens their sense of belonging. This year's theme

"With Glowing Hearts" was depicted by Amy with an elegant and

imaginative style and was selected from 1,300 entries from across the Province.

The provincial finalist was chosen from among the four finalists in four

different age categories. Amy will be among the thirteen provincial and

territorial finalists who will go on to participate in the national Canada Day

celebrations in Ottawa in June.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in

congratulating Amy Park on winning the 2009 Canada Day Poster Challenge for

Newfoundland and Labrador and also to extend congratulations to the other three

provincial finalists.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Fortune Bay-Cape la

Hune.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS PERRY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am honoured to rise in this great House today to recognize the talented

young musicians of Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune. Earlier this year, hundreds of

students from the region participated in the Kiwanis Music Festival at Grand

Falls-Windsor, with outstanding results.

Along with these fine young musicians, I must also thank their music

teachers: Ms Brenda Jeddore of Conne River, Ms Valerie Coombs of Bay d'Espoir,

Without them, our children could not benefit from the joys of learning music,

and we are very grateful for all you do for our children and our communities.

I would also to thank the parents for their commitment as well. Ever since I

was in elementary school, when the Kiwanis Festival came about, our parents

packed us up and sacrificed their hard-earned dollars so that we could stay in

Central Newfoundland all week; and, often, many of them came with us. This is

quite a commitment, but our parents recognized the value that such an experience

has for their children.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join with me and

congratulate the students and teachers of Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune for a job

well done.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo &

LaPoile.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to recognize and congratulate St. James' Regional High School

Band on becoming the recipients of the Gold Standard of Performance Award for

their performance at MusicFest Canada, held at Toronto on May 13 of this year.

MusicFest Canada is a national competition for high school concert bands,

orchestras, jazz bands and choral groups. The event is by invitation only, and

the band earned the invitation while performing at the Atlantic Band Festival in

Halifax last year. They were the only concert band from Newfoundland and

Labrador, and were playing in the same lineup as much larger bands from schools

across Canada.

The fifteen-member band was directed by Dr. Ann Marie Lane, who was hired in

2006 to build a music program at St. James' Regional High in Port aux Basques.

When Dr. Lane arrived at the school there was not even a designated music room

and the school had two out-of-tune pianos, some broken drums and a few

interested high school students. In 2007, Dr. Lane was given permission to

purchase twenty instruments and start a school band. It is amazing what she and

her students have accomplished in this short period of time.

At Musicfest Canada, St. James' High School Band performed a version of

Danny Boy I am sure our Premier would be proud which was adapted

specifically for their instrumentation; When the Stains Go Marching In and

Declaration and Dance.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in extending

congratulations to Dr. Ann Marie Lane and the St. James' Regional High School

Band on receiving this prestigious Gold Standard of Performance Award.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Ferryland.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to congratulate the Regina Mundi Cultural Committee of Renews on

its Paddy Day weekend events held on March 14 and 15.

I, along with my colleague, the hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and

Recreation attended the events on March 14. The event included a visual arts

display including paintings, photography and a quilt display from local artists.

It included a book launch by Eleanor McGrath entitled, A Story To Be Told,

Personal Reflections on the Irish Immigration to Canada. Ms McGrath is from

Toronto and married to an immigrant from Ireland and has recently purchased a

summer home in Renews.

In addition, the event included a play by Mr. Frank Holden entitled, It's

Like a Dream to Me , based on the life of Mr. Paddy McCarthy, a 105 year-old

native of Renews, held at the Regina Mundi Complex as well. The play gives an

overview of Mr. McCarthy's 100 years living in rural Newfoundland and Labrador

and his life as a fisherman from the age of sixteen to eighty-two years of age.

Also included in the festivities were the Baltimore School Band and local

musicians, singers and storytellers.

Mr. Speaker, rural Newfoundland and Labrador, and the Southern Shore in

general, has an abundance of various forms of art developed over the past 500

years of history and events like these I described ensure these art forms are

never lost.

Also, Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank Mary Chidley, Chair of the

Committee, and members of the Regina Mundi Cultural Organizing Committee,

including Rita Chidley, Bev Kane, John Chidley, Mike Chidley, Josephine Kane,

Sharon and Jackie Kane, for the tremendous job they did in organizing this event

and ensuring all forms of our culture are celebrated and enjoyed.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Baie

Verte-Springdale.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. POLLARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to recognize and congratulate the Baie Verte

Collegiate Drama Club, namely the Ranting Ravens, who is comprised of Grades 7

to 12 students from Coachman's Cove, Fleur de Lys, Baie Verte, Pacquet, and

Wild Cove.

The Ranting Ravens Drama Club, directed by Mary Lou Stuckless and with

assistance from Neil Kirby, performed at the regional festival at Grand

Falls-Windsor on April 24, and at that time were selected to perform in the

provincial showcase at the festival in Gander, on May 7-9. At the regional

festival, three of the lead performers, Marquita Walsh, Sabrina Pinksen, and

Rebecca Traverse were nominated for the best actor award, and with Marquita

being given this honour. All three were nominated for and won outstanding acting

awards at the provincial showcase.

The troupe was also awarded the best ensemble award at the regional festival,

highlighting group cohesiveness, choral and choreography work, and creativity of

the presentation.

I ask all members of this hon. House to join with me in applauding the

accomplishments of the Ranting Ravens, and wish them well in future

performances.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS POTTLE: Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House to inform my colleagues

of a recent event I participated in while visiting the Miawpukek First Nation

reserve in Conne River. As part of his Fight Against Drugs Campaign, Canadian

boxing giant George Chuvalo spoke to students from St. Anne's All-Grade School

and Bay d'Espoir Academy about his experience as a father in a family ravaged

by drug abuse.

Mr. Chuvalo has an honoured place in sports history for never being knocked

down while going toe-to-toe with some of boxing's finest, including the

legendary Muhammad Ali. However, the exploits of this world-class athlete's

battle in the ring pale in comparison with the tragic story of how his family

was nearly destroyed by drug addiction. This great fighter told students in

Conne River how he struggled outside the boxing ring, when heroin addiction

claimed the lives of three of his sons and drove his wife to suicide.

Mr. Speaker, stopping the abuse of drugs is a challenge for all communities,

and like most social problems, the best solutions often come from within the

communities themselves. This is what the event was all about. Conne River, under

the inspired leadership of Chief Misel Joe, is to be congratulated for bringing

Mr. Chuvalo and his Fight Against Drugs Campaign to their community. The

Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, through the Department of Labrador and

Aboriginal Affairs, is pleased to add its financial support in the effort to

bring Mr. Chuvalo to Conne River and the Labrador communities of Hopedale and

North West River to share his personal experience of the tragic consequences of

drug abuse.

Mr. Speaker, we know that drug addiction is a problem for many communities,

which is why this government supports efforts to tackle substance abuse on many

fronts, including the Suicide and Detrimental Lifestyles Grant Program for

Aboriginal people funded through my department.

The Miawpukek First Nation is a perfect example of a community that is taking

control of its destiny and tackling difficult and complex social issues such as

drug abuse. This is truly a model Aboriginal community, not just for

Newfoundland and Labrador, but all of Canada, and beyond. The people of Conne

River celebrate Mi'kmaq customs and traditions, their distinct culture and

heritage, and inspire other Aboriginal communities to do the same. They do this

while facing the very real challenges of twenty-first century life, head-on.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement.

Actually, it was just in the past week that I read the story of Mr. Chuvalo

and his time in Newfoundland and Labrador, the work that he was doing in Conne

River. I read it actually in The Coaster , and I was very impressed with

it, in fact, to know that Chief Misel Joe and his team had the foresight to

bring individuals like this into the community to talk about drug addictions, to

talk about drug awareness and to leave messages, inspiring messages, with our

youngest people in our communities today, and in our schools, so that they can

have informed decisions and know the consequences of those decisions as they go

through.

Mr. Speaker, his story was one that was emotional, it was heartfelt, and I

guess it was filled with irony. When you have an individual like this who has

been so successful, but yet be able to see that they have endured such hardship

and such loss and such suffering in their lives, it is absolutely amazing and

unbelievable.

Mr. Speaker, government themselves has a study, the Newfoundland and Labrador

student drug study, which indicates that today 60 per cent of the

students in Grades 7 to 9, and Levels I to Level III, have some involvement with

substance use, either with alcohol, marijuana, tobacco or cocaine. We know that

some are more commonly used than others, but I think that the report also shows

that intervention, once directed at youth, has a positive impact. I would

encourage the government to do more of this, have more of these people talking

in our schools, in our reserves

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to conclude her remarks.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, I will - in our schools and in our

reserves because they do leave a tremendous impact with young people. I have

been witness to it myself in schools in my own district and I would like to see

it part of a broader provincial campaign.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, thank the minister for the advance copy of her statement, and I am

very pleased to stand with her and congratulate Chief Misel Joe and Mr. Chuvalo

for taking the initiative to have this event happen in Conne River.

Last week I was quite honoured to participate in a gathering of elders with

Chief Misel Joe as the person bringing us together, and concern was expressed

with regard to the role of alcohol in the lives of people in their communities.

This is something that they have not run away from, neither in Conne River nor

in other Aboriginal communities in the Province. Everything that this government

can do and we can do as individuals to stand with them as they fight this

problem, the better it will be, but at the same time we also have to recognize

that it is not just a problem for Aboriginal people. I would not want us in any

way to - and I know the minister would agree with that, that we should take an

example from them as a community in how they are dealing with the issue of

alcoholism and drugs, and all that we can do in terms of helping fund programs

or special events like the one of bringing in Mr. Chuvalo can only be for the

betterment of their communities as well as our whole Province.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.

The hon. the Minister of Human Resources, Labour and Employment.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is my pleasure to congratulate Team Newfoundland and Labrador 2009 on

bringing home seven medals from the fifteenth Annual Canadian Skills Competition

which was held last week in Charlottetown, P.E.I.

Mr. Speaker, over 500 of the best and brightest high-school, post-secondary

and apprenticeship students from every province and territory competed in forty

competitions for the honour of being named the best in the country. The Canadian

Skills Competition is organized by Skills Canada to profile technology and trade

careers.

Mr. Speaker, the provincial government is a proud supported of Skills Canada

Newfoundland and Labrador and of the Canadian Skills Competition. The Department

of Human Resources, Labour and Employment provides a financial contribution to

Skills Canada Newfoundland and Labrador programming, including the Annual

Intermediate Skills Challenge, Provincial Skilled Career Day, National Skilled

Trades Week activities, partnership activities, in-school and community

presentations and other programming aimed at increasing excellence in skills

development.

In addition, the Department of Education provides a contribution to Skills

Canada Newfoundland and Labrador to offer Skills Work for Women Conferences,

which promote skilled trades and technologies to young women as first choice

career options. As well, the department provides $15,000 in travel grants to

students from off the Avalon to attend the provincial competitions.

The Department of Education also partners with Skills Canada Newfoundland and

Labrador and the Career Planning Centre to deliver the Teacher Ambassador

Program, offering teachers an opportunity to job shadow and learn about careers

in skilled trades and technology and bring that knowledge into the system

through the sharing of developed curriculum.

I would now like to take a moment to announce our award winners from this

year's Canadian Skills Competition. Bronze award winners were Donald Bradley,

Jason Garland and Sarah Norris. Silver awards went to Jessica McErlean, Hannah

Green and Michel Hopkins; and I am pleased to announce, Mr. Speaker, that Andrew

Power of CBS was the recipient of a gold medal award. A College of the North

Atlantic Student, Andrew was awarded the Best of Region Award, which goes to the

competitor with the highest marks in the Province.

I know I speak for my hon. colleague, the Minister of Education, and indeed

for all members of this hon. House, when I offer each award winner

congratulations on a job well done.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the minister for an advance copy of her statement, and to say

that this Canadian Skills Competition is truly a great competition, knowing that

our students from this Province went to compete against some 500 others

throughout our country.

Mr. Speaker, I know how important this particular competition is, because it

was only three or four years ago that a young gentleman from my constituency

went out to the western part of our country, won the gold medal, and when he

came back home, before he finished Grade 11, he had three small businesses

himself started in the area. In one of them, he had three or four other people

hired on with him. It is a tremendous competition. No doubt about it, it is a

development of the skills of our young people.

We in the Official Opposition want to congratulate Donald, Jason, Sarah,

Jessica, Hannah, Michel and Andrew on winning the bronze, silver and gold

competitions and bringing them back to our Province. We want to wish each and

every one of them, and all those who took part, who were not winners, every

success in the future.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the minister for the

advance copy of her statement.

I am quite pleased to receive this report from the minister, on the support

given to our provincial team to participate in the Annual Skills Canada

Competition, and I am really pleased to join with her in congratulating the

medal winners from our provincial team.

The activities of Skills Canada over the past fifteen years, I think, have

really been important for increasing the interest in skilled trades and

technology in Newfoundland and Labrador, and encouraging young people, and now

women as well; they have taken that on as a career.

I understand from the skilled trades task force update forum that was held

last week, that the Teacher Ambassador Program now has, I think, over thirty

teachers job shadowing with trades people in order to give their students the

first-hand information about working in the trades. This is a program that I

know the department is going to be expanding, and I think when we can have that

program everywhere in the Province it will be wonderful.

I also understand from the forum that there were some really good ideas and

suggestions for how to get young people into trades. One of them was an idea

that is being carried on, I think, in British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan

and Ontario, of having mobile units go into rural parts of the Province to do

block training in trades and technology.

Such mobile units could especially be important for women who have

responsibilities, family responsibilities; as, as they go on with their

training, sometimes they stop because of not being able to go to college

campuses. So it is an idea I ask the minister to learn more about and look at.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Yesterday, due to a fire at the building housing the Office of the Chief

Information Officer, government computing services went off-line, and we know

that an essential element of emergency planning is a Business Continuity Plan,

or BCP. Under a BCP, government would be able to continue internal and external

operations and services.

I ask the government today: What is the state of the business continuity

planning within government, and who is responsible for it?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that what happened

yesterday is that there was an electrical malfunction in the electrical

substation at the OCIO building on Higgins Line. This not only caused a power

disruption, but the backup power system was disrupted by this electrical

problem.

In essence, Mr. Speaker, what happened was, the backup system was also

affected; however, the backup continuity plans that are in place in each

department were then in force. Everything was started to be brought back on-line

within a short period of time, and it is my understanding that within four to

six hours everything started to get back up at full speed.

There is no question that something like what happened yesterday is of

concern, but it was dealt with. Each department has a backup continuity plan. I

think even, for example, in HRLE there was the manual writing of cheques.

Everything, Mr. Speaker, went as it should and the backup continuity plans

were certainly put in place.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Maybe the minister could tell us, then, when we can expect a complete report

on what happened, why there was an electrical occurrence there, and why some of

the backup plans did not work in certain cases, such as being able to continue

to access government computers, the Prescription Drug Program, Income Support

services, and things of this nature.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister Responsible for the Office of the

Chief Information Officer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Over the last period of years the OCIO has done, I would suggest, absolutely

wonderful work. In the period of time that the OCIO has been in place, the Chief

Information Officer Peter Shea and his people have certainly addressed many

issues that were lacking in government, such as information technology and

information management.

Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding, over a period of time, the budget has

increased since 2005 from $33.5 million to $70.2 million in 2008-2009. The

office deals with issues such as backup continuity plans and addresses issues

such as were raised in the Auditor General's report this year.

It is currently being investigated fully, and hopefully we will be in a

position in the very near future to know exactly what took place, how we can

prevent it from happening in the future, and how to address situations that

arise.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is a system that was created by the government opposite, and I am glad

the minister mentioned that the revenue invested in it has increased by over 50

per cent in the last number of years. When you have that much money being spent,

I would think you should have a stable and reliable service.

I ask the minister today if government is prepared - in light of the fact

that there have been millions and millions of dollars invested already - to

initiate a review of the government's computing strategy with respect to OCIO

and to see if it is a stable solution for us in the future.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister Responsible for the Office of the

Chief Information Officer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr .Speaker.

The first point I would make is that, contrary to any suggestion by the

Leader of the Opposition, it is certainly a very stable system operating here

under the OCIO. What we had yesterday was a situation arising, and connecting

switches made inoperable. At that point, then - contrary to what I said a few

minutes ago, it not a backup plan - there are Business Continuity Plans that are

put in place. They are put in place of priority. Then, as the system goes down,

it is brought back on-line in terms of these priorities. What we have is - for

example, the government e-mail was down - it starts to come back, as we all saw

yesterday.

We have HRLE. We have the more critical services which, in terms of the

Business Continuity Plan, are brought back on-line. The Prescription Drug

Program is one of them, and support services under the Department of Justice.

The Business Continuity Plans are executed in terms of the order of being most

critical, and that is what took place yesterday.

We will continue to investigate. We will try to find out exactly what

occurred, and how to prevent this in the future.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The Goose Bay air base has two runways that can be used by fighter jets. The

selection of which runway a jet lands on is determined by the direction of the

wind. It was recently brought to our attention that one of these aircraft

arresting systems servicing runway 1634 in Goose Bay will be removed by the

Department of National Defence.

I ask the minister today: Have you been made aware of this decision, and has

any representation been made to the federal minister in an attempt to reverse

this action?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Works.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am not aware that we have been contacted by the military or Transport

Canada or anyone else as to any change in status at the Goose Bay Airfield, but

I will endeavour to find out what the status of it is, after Question Period,

and report back to the House if we have been contacted.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is an issue that has been ongoing for several months, I say to the

minister, locally. Right now there are currently no fighter jets that operate

out of Goose Bay, but we do know that the air base there has the potential, with

the appropriate level of promotion by the federal government, to reinforce, or

enforce again, its allied forces. Mr. Speaker, removing the aircraft arresting

system, which we understand now will be moved to Trenton, will certainly impact

their ability to market that runway for future flight activity.

I ask the minister if the Province will be conducting any analysis as to what

the removal of this system will mean to the local economy and to getting

training flights back in operation in Goose Bay.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Any time anyone takes any infrastructure out of Goose Bay it is a very

important thing for us, and we want to hold the feet to the fire of the federal

government to make sure they live up to the commitment of 5 Wing Goose Bay. If

they are going to take any infrastructure that impacts on the military flights

and training up in Goose Bay we are certainly going to make ourselves make that

known to the federal government.

As of yesterday, Mr. Speaker, I wrote a letter to Minister MacKay explaining

the situation there and asked him to verify that. If he comes back to verify

that they are taking any infrastructure out of that, then they will hear back

from this government.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have also been told by the Department of National Defence officials that

should the equipment be required in the future they would consider reinstating

it. But, Mr. Speaker, we all know that if you are trying to promote an airbase

to allied forces that they are more inclined to look at that as a potential

place of operation if the proper equipment is there and operational.

I have to ask the minister: Are there any kind of meetings that you are

looking at scheduling? Have you been in contact with the local community in

Goose Bay? Has this incident been reported to you in a manner in which you

should have, and could have dealt with as the minister responsible?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I have had a number of conversations with

the Minister of Labrador Aboriginal Affairs and basically, both of us are on the

same page. Also, the council up there are well aware of it. What has happened up

there, Mr. Speaker, there is speculation up there that this is what is going to

happen, that the federal government are going to relocate that (inaudible).

Speculation, we have not verified it yet.

The letter that I sent off to Minister MacKay will verify that. Once I know

that, then we can talk exactly what we are talking about here. The other issue

is that I have also instructed my officials to contact Minister MacKay's

office to set up a meeting to discuss this very issue.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Obviously, another issue that the Province is not engaged in and could mean

the demise of another economic structure in the Province.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: In light of what is happening have there

been any discussions recently at all with the federal government as to what the

future operations will be at Goose Bay or is this just another way where they

can look at pulling services out all together?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Mr. Speaker, I am dumbfounded how one person would twist the

words that I have just said. Really!

Mr. Speaker, anything and all things that affect 5 Wing Goose Bay this

government is committed to, and we want to hold the feet to the fire of the

federal government of their commitment. Anything that happens, we will make sure

that they live up to their promise, or their commitment.

Mr. Speaker, I have instructed my staff to go back to Minister MacKay to look

for a meeting ASAP to discuss this very issue because anything of infrastructure

taken out of Goose Bay will devaluate the valuable possession that they have up

in Goose Bay.

And by the way, Minister Hickey, the Minister of Labrador Affairs, is there

now.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Last year I asked the Minister of Health if there were plans to implement an

applied behaviour analysis, an ABA program for autistic children over the age of

six. At that time the minister responded that him and the Minister of Education

would sit down, they would have a discussion around the ABA program, the

supports that were provided to autism both in the education system and in health

and community services.

I ask the minister, that was a year ago: Did you ever have those discussions

with your colleague and if so, was any progress made to help autistic children?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Yes, I did have such a discussion and there has been much

progress, Mr. Speaker, and I am certain my colleague, the Minister of Education,

would be able to elaborate as well on some of the things we have done with

children with autism.

Later today in debate, it is going to be the subject of a private member's

resolution and I am certain that the people of Newfoundland and Labrador will

get an opportunity to see first-hand a number of the things that we have been

doing to support children and their families who are living with autism.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

With complaints from the parents of autistic children who say that school

officials are not properly trained to meet their children's needs, I ask the

minister today: Has there been any new training programs established for

officials so that the needs of autistic children can be met in our education

system?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the member opposite for her question. It is certainly a very

important topic, and as my colleague has just alluded to a few moments ago, one

that we are going to have a great amount of time later this afternoon to debate

and discuss.

I will say to the member opposite, if she is interested in listening to me

give her an answer for a moment, we are certainly indeed working with the Autism

Society and school districts. We have committed a significant amount of money

over the last twelve months in particular towards teacher professional

development along with a number of other initiatives that are supported by

parents and the Autism Society in the Province to support ongoing initiatives in

the K-12 sector.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As the minister indicated, we will be debating a private member's motion

today on existing autistic services for children.

I ask the minister: With the increasing number of children diagnosed with

autism in our Province each year, does the minister intend on extending the ABA

program to children beyond the age of six?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Mr. Speaker, I am certain, based on the fact that they would

have consulted before the private member's motion today, that the member

opposite would know that there is not unanimous agreement that the ABA is the

absolute, best alternative for students in the K-12 system. So, no, I am not

committing to that here today right now but I will talk a bit more a little

later this afternoon about a number of services that we are committed to.

I will say to the member opposite, that we are engaged with parents and with

the Autism Society of Newfoundland and Labrador, and I will say to the member

opposite that not every one of those people in those organizations are committed

to ABA for K-12. There are alternatives that work much better for students from

each end of the autistic spectrum.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, in February we wrote to the Eastern School

District regarding concerns that were expressed to us by parents of students at

Frank Roberts Junior High School in Conception Bay South. The school had been

closed last year due to poor air quality control and mould and the parents who

contacted our office say that some of the problems had not been adequately

addressed when the school reopened. The Eastern School District responded to our

letter saying that everything was fine. Well, Mr. Speaker, it turns out that

everything was not fine. Yesterday it was announced the school would close again

due to poor air quality and mould.

I ask the minister: Why were the concerns of parents not addressed in January

and February when these concerns were first brought to government's attention?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: In the absence of someone from Eastern School District, Mr.

Speaker, I will try and provide an answer. I believe the question is directed

towards the Eastern School District, in the meantime. We do not speak for the

district. I can only say that I am fully aware of the incident at Frank Roberts.

We have been briefed in the very recent past. The incident that occurred with

the previous closure of the school was addressed. There was total air quality

testing done and as the member opposite would know, he has been advocating

regularly in the House for air quality testing -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

There are important questions being asked and important answers being

provided.

The hon. the Minister of Education.

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

As I was saying, the member opposite is well aware because he has advocated

on any number of occasions for air quality testing as the way to determine

whether schools are, in fact, safe to be occupied or not.

I say, Mr. Speaker, that test was done when the school was closed before,

along with a number of other testing procedures, and the tests came back in fact

to show that the school was safe to go back into. The incident that has occurred

very recently, Mr. Speaker, is unrelated to the previous incident.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: I have to agree with the minister, Mr. Speaker. The incident

that I am referring to now is definitely not related to the first one, because

this is in a totally different area of that same school.

Mr. Speaker, while the school was reopened in January, work continued on the

facility to address some of the ongoing air quality problems. According to

parents, this most recent case of mould has been found in several new areas of

the school, nowhere near the original issue. As well, this mould is apparently

on the inner walls of the school.

I ask the minister: How is it that this building could have been inspected,

undergone mould abatement, and students put back in this facility, when clearly

there were still mould issues in that particular facility?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: I think we should establish for the record that I am not an

engineer and I am not qualified to provide an answer to the question posed, but

I can certainly provide a

summary of the briefing that we have been provided.

I can say to the House, Mr. Speaker, that I have asked the school board to

provide a full media briefing, and I understand that as we speak here today that

briefing is being provided. I do not know the full contents of it, but I can say

to you that the recent incident was a result of contractor error in some work

that was being performed over the Easter break. As a result of the damage by the

contractor, water infiltrated the building and mould grew.

There were a number of other issues, as I understand it, around communication

between the board and the parents and the public, that the Opposition may want

to take up with the school district, but I have instructed the school district,

prior to coming to the House, to disclose fully any and all information relative

to that particular school and what is happening in the last couple of weeks.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, the issue that I reference today has nothing to

do with the work that was being done by the contractor. It is in a totally

different area of the school. He is referencing a ceiling problem where the

water came down. That is not the issue; it is in a totally different area of the

school, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, several days ago I asked questions regarding closure of a school

in Lamaline due to the discovery of mould. There is a long list of schools that

have been closed due to poor air quality, over the past couple of years, and in

the middle of the school year again we have Frank Roberts Junior High, for the

second time in the school year. I understand fully that the minister is not an

engineer, but I can tell you the Department of Education has some control over

the school boards.

I ask the minister: Will you finally admit that mandatory air quality

inspections in all schools are required to identify problems, or are we willing

to go through the entire process again this year, throwing more students and

parents into chaos because you refuse to be proactive?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It continues to be a challenge in the House to respond to questions and

statements that are not based entirely on factual information, Mr. Speaker. It

was only yesterday that there was an insinuation or two days ago by a

member opposite that this government and my office were somewhat negligent, for

lack of a better word, in the disposition of school property in Grand

Falls-Windsor.

I say to you, Mr. Speaker, according to the letter in front of me here, it

was a Liberal Minister of Education who dealt with that issue back in May 2000.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: To the issue at hand, I say to the member opposite, I did not

cause the problem, no more than I did not decide from 1997 to 2003 to put $5.5

million into school maintenance and construction, but our government did decide

to put $121.5 million in this year, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: And, I say, Mr. Speaker -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

They might have put $125 million in, but I can tell you the safety of our

children in the schools is not being protected in this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, in October of last year the provincial

government announced a transfer of a shrimp licence from St. Joseph's to La

Scie. The reasons given for the transfer were to provide adjacency to the

resource, reduce trucking of product, and improve end quality. It is our

understanding that no production has taken place. I am wondering if the minister

would confirm this, if this is the case, and if so why?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Very simply, that was over two years that was to happen.

We are into the first year now. I think it is 2010. I am looking at my hon.

colleague here. Obviously, we are giving the proponent the opportunity to carry

out what he promised to do.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, before a transfer takes place, I guess upgrades

and improvements have to happen with the plant in La Scie.

I ask the minister: Are you aware of any upgrades that the company has

completed in preparation for this transfer?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Again, Mr. Speaker, we put it into the proponent's hands

to carry out the work that is required in order to take care of that particular

transfer. I assume that he is in the middle of it.

Again, with regard to details, I guess I would have to check with the

proponent. Again, it is up to that individual to carry out the work that is

required.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, it has been reported that shrimp from the

Northern Peninsula, and in particular the communities of Port au Choix, Black

Duck Cove and Anchor Point, will be shipped to St. Joseph's.

I ask the minister: Is that the case and what will this mean for the workers

in those communities?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: Mr. Speaker, I do not deal with speculation, what if and

what happens. Obviously, it is up to the processing part of the business to

carry out their business. In this particular case I have not had any reports, so

I will just leave that to speculation and leave it at that.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The wait-list for MRI services in the St. John's area is roughly a year. In

fact, through discussions with the Newfoundland and Labrador Association of

Radiologists, they have clearly stated that St. John's is in need of a third

MRI immediately. We know that it takes about two years of planning,

infrastructure, and preparation and training before a new unit can be

functional.

I ask the minister: Is government planning to install or allocate funds for a

new MRI machine for St. John's in the near future?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, this year we are spending some $50 million on

equipment for our health facilities in this Province. Last year it was $50

million. The year before that it was $40-odd million. Mr. Speaker, in the last

three years we have spent close to $200 million in putting new equipment in

hospitals. We have had about seven new CT scanners and we have had about a dozen

mammography units, for example, so we have had a significant infusion of new

money in providing new, advanced technology in the area of diagnostic imaging.

As always, Mr. Speaker, that money reflects our forward thinking. As always,

we are always looking at what the needs of the future will be, whether it is MRI

services or other diagnostic tools that our health facilities need.

Mr. Speaker, in response to the question, yes, we are always planning, we are

always looking at the future, we are always assessing our future needs and, as

always, as in the past three or four years, we will respond to future needs as

well.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In December 2005 the Health Ministers across Canada agreed to benchmarks for

medical wait times in five areas, one of which was diagnostic imaging. Mr.

Speaker, Newfoundland and Labrador have failed to report in this area since

I ask the minister: Why have our Province not reported in this area with

regard to waitlists for diagnostic testing, and when can we expect these numbers

to be reported and released to the public?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, five areas that have been agreed to that we

will benchmark. We have been reporting on those on a quarterly basis and we will

continue to do that. To make jurisdictional comparisons around the country, all

provinces need to agree to measure their wait times and to be able to report

those. So all of those areas, which in fact all provinces have agreed to measure

and report their benchmark times, and we, in fact, are doing that, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I understand today that finally the not-for-profit and private ambulance

operators are having a meeting with government, having now been without a

contract since April, 2008, and many delays in setting this meeting up, and I am

glad that this meeting did not get cancelled.

However, Mr. Speaker, last year the government started to roll out its

provincial medical oversight program, which requires that all paramedics and

ambulance operators throughout the Province have the same training, but the

budget did not provide any specific new training for this program.

I ask the Minister of Health and Community Services: Where will the money

come from for this training, since we know that the community ambulance

operators are running on a shoestring as it is?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: I am delighted the member opposite has mentioned our medical

oversight program. That is a significant program, Mr. Speaker, all with a view

of enhancing the quality of care we provide to the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador, all with a view of ensuring that the first responders to an emergency

are appropriately and adequately trained.

With respect to whole issues of compensation, and she also acknowledged that

negotiations are taking place as we speak, this is the second time that they

have been at a table to negotiate issues around compensation, remuneration and

the flow of money from government to these operators. I say, Mr. Speaker, issues

of financial cost, issues of remuneration, issues of what the contract value

would be, that is what negotiations are all about.

I say, Mr. Speaker, as we speak, there is a team of people at a table

negotiating what would be a reasonable compensation for the services provided by

all our community operators, together with our private operators. At the outcome

of the negotiations, when they are concluded, we will all know, as a Province,

exactly what money was on the table.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I did ask a very specific question of the minister. I have heard from some

paramedics who are telling me that they are being asked to take a leave of

absence, pay for their own training, and then come back to work for salaries

that are at the lowest end of the scale in the Province.

Is there going to be specific money for those who are in the community-based

ambulances, the paramedics to get their training?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will see if I can be a little more clearer for the member opposite.

Community operators, together with private operators, sit down with government

periodically to negotiate a contract. We then provide financial remuneration to

those people who provide a service. They in turn hire employees. The employees

have an employer-employee relationship with the people they work for. So I say,

Mr. Speaker, with respect to the amount of money we pay the operators, that is

what the negotiation is about today as we speak.

The relationship individuals have with their employers, the employee-employer

relationship, we are not in the middle of that, Mr. Speaker. So issues around

how people work for their employer, the nature of that relationship, who pays

for what training and about time off and their scheduling, these are operational

issues that the operators themselves deal with. We as a government are

responsible for compensating the operators fairly for the work that they do and

the service they provide.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, we are losing our rural paramedics to other provinces because

they are not receiving the same wages as the public sector ambulance operators.

However, they are dealing with the same level of trauma, the same serious

illnesses, the same people who are vulnerable in emergency situations, and they

have to have the same training.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister: Why aren't all of our EMS services coming

under a totally public system so that everyone gets paid and trained the same

and that the same quality of care is provided to everyone in the Province?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, ambulance services in this Province is publicly

funded. As I have tried to explain to the member opposite, we have a - and I

have said many times in this House, Mr. Speaker, is that some of our ambulance

services are based out of a hospital, some more of them are operated by

community-based organizations and some more of them are operated by private

operators, I say, Mr. Speaker.

With the private operators and the community operators, as we speak today,

and she has already acknowledged, they are at a table negotiating an agreement,

negotiating an arrangement for financial compensation for a valuable service

that they provide. In the very near future, I suspect they will conclude a

negotiation. They will have an arrangement that will be satisfactory to the

operators and they will continue to provide quality, valuable service to the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time allotted for questions and answers have expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling of Documents.

Notices of Motions.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the Member for Signal

Hill-Quidi Vidi, the following resolution:

WHEREAS pursuant to subsection 3(1) of the Citizens' Representative Act and

following a resolution of the House of Assembly on December 13, 2001, the

Lieutenant-Governor in Council, by Order in Council dated December 14, 2001,

appointed Mr. Fraser March to serve as the Citizens' Representative commencing

on February 1, 2002; and

WHEREAS the Auditor General in his Report on Reviews of Departments and Crown

Agencies for the year ending March 31, 2004, as submitted to the Speaker on

January 26, 2005, identified a number of concerns relating to the operations of

the Office of the Citizens' Representative; and

WHEREAS the said Auditor General's Report contained the written response of

the Citizens' Representative with respect to the identified concerns; and

WHEREAS the Internal Economy Commission of the House of Assembly conducted a

review of the concerns raised by the Auditor General, hired an independent legal

consultant to advise the Internal Economy Commission respecting those concerns

and offered Mr. March himself, or through his solicitor, four opportunities to

present his case before the Commission, which he declined; and

WHEREAS on June 29, 2005, the Internal Economy Commission directed the

Speaker to recommend to the Lieutenant-Governor in Council that pursuant to

subsection 7(1) of the Citizens' Representative Act the Citizens'

Representative be suspended; and

WHEREAS on August 30, 2005 the Lieutenant-Governor in Council temporarily

suspended, with pay, the Citizens' Representative from his duties, pursuant to

section 7 of the Citizens' Representative Act; and

WHEREAS on December 12, 2005, the House of Assembly, by a majority vote of

its members passed a resolution that Mr. March be removed from the Office of

Citizens' Representative; and

WHEREAS following the said resolution the Lieutenant-Governor in Council,

under

section 6 of the Citizens' Representative Act, issued an Order in

Council removing Mr. March from the Office of the Citizens' Representative

effective December 12, 2005; and

WHEREAS on April 6, 2007, Justice David Orsborn of the Supreme Court Trial

Division dismissed an application by Mr. Fraser March and concluded that the

resolution and the manner in which it was debated by the House of Assembly was

immune from judicial review due to parliamentary privilege; and

WHEREAS Mr. March has requested that there be an independent review of the

circumstances surrounding his removal; and

WHEREAS the Minister of Justice, on January 22, 2009 announced that he had

asked the Government House Leader to request that the Management Commission of

the House of Assembly endorse the introduction of a resolution during the next

session of the House of Assembly, to conduct an independent review of the case

of the former Citizens' Representative, Mr. Fraser March; and

WHERAS on May 13, 2009, a majority of the House of Assembly Management

Commission members resolved that the Commission endorse a resolution in the

House of Assembly to appoint a retired Supreme Court Justice to conduct an

independent and impartial review into the circumstances of Fraser March's

removal from office, which review will include the opportunity for Fraser March

to be heard;

THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that the House of Assembly Management Commission

select a retired Supreme Court Justice who shall be appointed to conduct the

review of the actions of Mr. Fraser March that led to his removal from the

Office of the Citizens' Representative; and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the terms of reference for the said review shall

be as follows:

1. The retired Justice is authorized to undertake an independent review and

evaluation of the actions of Mr. Fraser March with respect to the decision to

remove him from the Office of the Citizens' Representative.

2. The review shall include the opportunity for Mr. March to be heard by the

retired Justice.

3. The retired Justice is authorized to produce an opinion as to whether or

not there was sufficient cause to remove Mr. March from office.

4. The review shall be completed within two months, at which time the retired

Justice shall issue a written report to the Speaker for distribution to Members

of the House of Assembly.

MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion.

The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member, on a point of order.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, during Question Period, the Minister of Education made reference

to a certain document and cited it. He specifically mentioned, I do believe,

We would ask that, pursuant to the Rules of Parliamentary Procedure, and

particularly I refer to Beauchesne's page 151, item 495 generally but

specifically subsection (2), that the Minister of Education table the document

that he referred to.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader, to the point of order.

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Education certainly alluded to a

letter that he had in his possession, or he had reviewed, in relation to a

decision that was made in 2002. If it is required by the House that the letter

has to be tabled because of procedure here in the House of Assembly, we would

certainly have no problem tabling that letter.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Is the commentary finished on the point of order?

The hon. the Opposition House Leader, to the point of order?

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Yes.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Just for the record, Mr. Speaker, the minister was

asked a question. The minister took it upon himself to reference a document that

he had, a letter which he specifically said dealt with a situation that was

raised in this House, and he gave a date; he said it was done in 2002.

Now, if the minister is going to cite and refer to a document, the rules are

that he should be prepared to table it in this House. There is no requirement

that he has to read from it. There is no requirement in the literature or in the

rules that he has to read from it, Mr. Speaker. The requirement is that if he

cites it, if he makes reference to it - and he waved it around in this House -

he ought to be prepared to table it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair's understanding of the rule when it comes to ministers having to

table a particular document or a piece of correspondence is that the minister

has every right to refer to something but if the minister quotes from the

particular document, that is the time that a minister has to table it.

The hon. member is shaking his head, that this is probably not correct, but

that is the Chair's understanding. If the Chair needs to come back and make a

further ruling on it then he will, but that is where the Chair stands with it

right now.

Further tabling of documents.

Notices of motion.

Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Orders of the Day

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: This being Private Members' Day, and it now being 3:00 o'clock,

I now call on the hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au

Clair and the Leader of the Opposition to debate her private member's

resolution.

The hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am certainly pleased today to rise on behalf of children in our Province

who suffer from autism and are going without the appropriate services that they

should be getting beyond the age of six.

Mr. Speaker, for the record, I would like to read my private member's

motion into the records of the House.

WHEREAS Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASDs) are lifelong neurological disorders

that affect a person's development and how the brain processes information;

and

WHEREAS ASD is the most common neurological disorder affecting children; and

WHEREAS Newfoundland and Labrador had a prevalence rate of 1 in 132 in 2008

and the rate is expected to be even higher for 2009; and

WHEREAS the number of people receiving a diagnosis of autism is on the

increase in Newfoundland and Labrador; and

WHEREAS evidence-based research shows that the lifelong cost of assisting a

person with autism can be reduced if the child receives early diagnosis,

effective treatment and adequate supports; and

WHEREAS all direct government programs for children with autism end after age

six; and

WHEREAS schools do not have adequate resources and there is a demonstrated

need for programs;

BE IT RESOLVED that government extend autism services offered for children

below six years of age to all children.

Mr. Speaker, we feel very strongly about this resolution, only because we

have had the opportunity to meet with parents and grandparents and to discuss

the challenges that children are experiencing in our school system, children who

suffer from autism.

A year ago we raised this issue in the House of Assembly, and we left the

issue with a commitment that was untaken by the Minister of Health that he and

the Minister of Education would have dialogue to look at what further services

could be provided for children who suffer from autism who are in our school

system. Well, a year later, we certainly did not get any feedback in terms of

what were additional supports or satisfactory supports that would be launched to

be able to meet the needs of these children.

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I think people should realize and understand that

there is no effective means to prevent autism, and there is no full effective

treatment or cure, and I think anyone who is familiar with this disease will

understand this. Therefore, it becomes a disease that requires lifelong support

and lifelong treatment. It does not start at the time of diagnosis and end at

the age of six. In fact, it is a service that needs to be continued. The gap in

our service today in this Province exists for children between the ages of six

and eighteen, and this is where we hope that government will want to focus more

energy, more supports and more resources.

Even since I tabled this resolution in the House of Assembly, I received a

number of e-mails from people in the Province, and have been listening to what

they have had to say, or reading what they have had to say, but it is amazing

how many people out there, how many families out there, in this Province who

have children who suffer from autism feel like they have nowhere to turn most

days in terms of gathering more supports and more services.

Mr. Speaker, there are a couple of things I want to point out. First of all,

that it takes seventeen months in this Province to have a child with autism

diagnosed; it takes seventeen months. Even after diagnosis is done, oftentimes

it takes longer before treatment is engaged.

Mr. Speaker, we are all aware of the case of Gloria Sparkes, a grandmother in

this Province of two autistic children, who took her case to the Supreme Court

because she felt that her grandchildren were not getting the services of early

intervention that they should be getting, and she won her case. She won her case

which stated that once children were diagnosed they had to receive the services

of early intervention within thirty days.

Today, Mr. Speaker, in this Province those timelines are being met, but the

delay now is getting the diagnosis. Because of the actions of one woman and her

challenges in the courts, children today that suffer from autism will get the

intervention within an appropriate period of time, but today they are not

getting the diagnosis. They are waiting up to seventeen months to be diagnosed.

What I have been told and the literature that I have read, tells us that early

intervention of children with autism needs to occur as early as possible, within

the first two years of a child's life. Because of the backlog we have in this

Province of having children diagnosed, and the fact that there is only one

development psychologist to serve the whole Province, our children are losing

most of the first two years of their lives. That is one issue.

The other issue, Mr. Speaker, is the issue of what happens when a child

becomes six years of age. We have a system today in the Province of early

intervention, whether that happens when a child is two or three, whereby a child

is led through our entire system. They are given the applied behaviour analysis

and they are supported by that program to age six. They are given the services

of communications, speech and language pathologists, they are given occupational

therapy. Mr. Speaker, all of their services are provided for them. They are

taken by the hand and they are led through all of the resources that a province

can provide for these children.

What happens at age six? At age six, when these children have

to go into our school system, those supports do not exist in the same manner and

parents have to look for the resources themselves and finance those resources.

The reality is we know that does not happen for every single child. Some parents

have the opportunity to home school their children with a new set of challenges

and problems - as I am learning - that exist around that, but not all children

have that opportunity. Many of them have the opportunity to be able to hire

Autism Partnership, which is a private firm that the Province engages to support

these children to the age of six, but not all families have the financial

ability to do that.

So, Mr. Speaker, many of our children once they reach the age

of six that suffer from autism, do not have the supports they require within the

system. I know that the Minister of Education today is going to stand in his

place and he is going to quote to me information that says that the program may

not work for all children. He will tell me that ABA may not work for every

student that suffers from autism in the school system. He may have some points,

but, Mr. Speaker, Dr. Ronald Leaf who has been the Autism Partnership firm that

this government has hired and seconded for years to provide these services to

children in our Province, in his book clearly indicates that ABA is practiced in

all types of settings with all types of populations and age groups and have been

used to improve many behaviours, including social skills, job performance,

language, and language acquisition.

This is the same firm that the provincial government engages

and pays for services for children in the Province up to age six, who is saying

that there is room for this in our school system; that children have the ability

to learn and foster from this program if it was available to them. In fact, Mr.

Speaker, the program is used in schools all over North America. All over North

America, and there are a number of journals and books that are written as

testimony to the success of that program for children.

Now, Mr. Speaker, the minister will also stand today and tell me that they

have a provincial pilot starting in September in our school system, to talk

about the inclusion model that will be looked at in fifteen schools across the

Province. Mr. Speaker, we have no problem with this model. We have no problem

with incorporating it into the schools and doing the pilot. What we do have a

problem with is ensuring that children who suffer from autism will get the

services that they need as part of that program, because today many of those do

not exist in the school system. We want to know if children of autism will have

individual learning as part of that program. We want to know if they are going

to have dedicated services, such as occupational therapy. We want to know if

they are going to have student assistant teachers, not just assistance in the

classroom, but student teacher assistants, like is being used in Nova Scotia and

in New Brunswick and in Prince Edward Island, where people are trained to

actually be teacher assistants in the classroom to students like this, who

suffer like this, Mr. Speaker.

We know that no such designation even exists in the Province today. The

designation does not exist in Newfoundland and Labrador. The training does not

exist in Newfoundland and Labrador, yet it is the support that is being used in

other schools in Atlantic Canada to help these children.

We want to know if ABA why not look at piloting ABA in the classrooms?

Why not piloting it in the schools? It can be incorporated in the school system

as has been written by experts, experts that your own department have hired to

do work in this Province and they are telling you in those books that they have

authored, that it can be incorporated into the educational program.

So, Mr. Speaker, there has been a realization over the years that children

that have a unique way of learning, that have unique disabilities, have been

accommodated in our school system. We have seen it with children that are deaf,

where there are proper supports and technology provided to them, where they have

been able to communicate using sign language. We have seen it with our children

that are blind, that have been given proper technology and supports in the

classroom and have been given the opportunity to communicate in Braille. We have

seen it with children who have learning disabilities, where there has been

supports developed for them in the school system.

Today we are asking that government recognize that autism, too, is a unique

disability, learning disability that these children face and that they, too,

need to have the proper supports. We know without these supports, most children

of autism suffer from behavioural problems and because of that, our school

system have practically expelled these students.

I have dozens and dozens of cases documented here, dozens of cases of where

children who suffer from autism are being expelled in our Province's schools

in this Province. Because, Mr. Speaker, the teachers in the classroom do not

have the supports to be able to deal with the behavioural issues that develop

when these children are not taught to communicate properly and effectively.

Mr. Speaker, is it right for these children to be sent home from school on a

daily basis because the resources are not in the school to deal with their

problems? They need more supports, and this government has the ability to do

that. You recognize that before the age of six the resource is needed, you

recognize that once they turn the age of eighteen that they can go back and get

those supports, so why can't they get them through their school years?

Mr. Speaker, every child must have the means to communicate in order to

learn. That is a requirement in our school system, and I think we need to

understand that. A child with autism - I have had cases quoted to me where they

have been in a classroom with a broken hip, and sent home because they did not

know what was wrong with the child; a child who has been suffering from

appendicitis and could not communicate what was wrong with them, and they were

just sent home, not being able and not knowing how to deal with their problems.

This happens every day and it is unacceptable for children in our system.

In order for parents to continue to support these children they have to pay

for it themselves, with an average cost I have one e-mail here that was sent

to me yesterday by a gentleman who said this year it will cost $12,000 for him

to have supports for his child.

MR. SPEAKER (T. Osborne): Order, please!

I remind the hon. member that her time for speaking has expired.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will certainly conclude my comments.

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member, by leave.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will certainly conclude my comments. There are so many things that I could

address as part of this, especially within the school system, in dealing with

the recommendations that came out of the Pathways report and the ISSP/Pathways

report to deal with teachers, to deal with student assistants, to deal with

guidance counsellors and psychologists. I do not have time to get into all of

that today but there were good recommendations, and they need to be followed.

Also, Mr. Speaker, I have had the opportunity to have the advice of Dr.

Philpott, who I know has incorporated one course right now into the Faculty of

Education at MUN that deals with this subject area, but the other course is

optional. I do not think it is good enough. I think that more needs to be done

if we are going to ask teachers in a classroom to deal with disorders of this

nature and to deal with children of this nature. Not only do the children need

to have proper supports, but so do those teachers in the classroom.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I certainly thank the member

opposite for bringing the motion forward, and for providing me and some others

with the opportunity to have a chance to have a few words.

I want to say up front that I certainly do recognize the importance of the

motion, and the importance, perhaps, not so much of the motion as the topic that

we are discussing here today: the whole issue of autism and autistic children,

and autistic families, if I might use that term perhaps a little looser.

My professional background, for the benefit of the House, was in the

education system. I spent just about twenty years as a classroom teacher, a

school principal, a district administrator, and I recognize many of the things

that the member opposite has talked about. I have experienced those.

I am not going to stand here and - as a matter of fact, I am not going to

stand here and debate many of the things that she suspects I will debate,

because I do not think it is the place for it and I do not think it is the kind

of debate that I want to engage in.

I also recognize from a very personal level the challenges that we have for

autistic children. My own family is affected by that, and I have gone through

the struggles on a personal basis for many, many years, and witnessed many of

the trials and tribulations that families go through: broken homes, where

husbands and wives and siblings have issues between each other in trying to

reconcile what the right approach is to dealing with a child who has autism, or

Autism Spectrum Disorder is perhaps the more appropriate term. We often loosely

refer to it as autism, but I think Autism Spectrum Disorder is probably the

clinical term.

I have seen first-hand, Mr. Speaker, the kinds of things that occur at home

in families. For the benefit, I am sure, of those who may be watching this at

home, or perhaps in the audience even - I am not sure - if any of these people

who are here are associated with this, I am sure they can all account to some of

the things that I am saying here right now.

I am not going to engage in the debate, Mr. Speaker, along the lines that

perhaps the Leader of the Opposition was anticipating that I would. I do want to

say up front that I do recognize the challenges at home, and I recognize the

challenges in school, and I will say that we recognize, as a government, as I am

sure the Opposition does, that things are not perfect.

I will share a quick story. When I taught junior high school, many years ago

now, I taught an individual who was diagnosed with attention deficit disorder -

a little different than the debate we are talking about, but the story is

relevant and the individual was very challenged. It was very challenging for

the teachers and for me, personally, very challenging for the parents, and very

challenging to establish relationships that made the classroom conducive to

learning and that made the classroom a place where the student was able to learn

and I was able to teach, and many of my colleagues who taught that particular

child.

I share that, Mr. Speaker, because many years have passed and it was only

yesterday that the mom and that particular student presented themselves in my

office to say hello and to share a bright spot in their life: that this morning

the son was graduating from Memorial with a Bachelor of Arts degree.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KING: That is a good story, Mr. Speaker, but the point of my story

was not what I just said. The point of my story was that the mom shared with me

that all through the K to 12 high schooling, this son it was a male had

autism and it was never diagnosed until he got into university. So, all through

the K to 12 schooling, we in the education system, and the medical professionals

and the doctors who dealt with it, were treating him with drugs that applied to

attention deficit disorder when, in fact, it was not the problem at all.

I share that, Mr. Speaker, to drive home the point that I am very, very

familiar with what we are talking about today and I am certainly very concerned

with the topic.

Back in Question Period, the member opposite asked a question of the Minister

of Health and Community Services and he said this - but I can reiterate it -

that in fact we have had a tremendous dialogue, the minister and I, not only

since this motion came forward but even in advance of that, about where we need

to go as a government to respond to the needs of, first of all and most

importantly, the needs of the children in the system; secondly, the needs of the

parents and the families who are affected by this and who struggle on a daily

basis, I am sure, as I see my own struggle; and the needs of the teachers who

are also struggling to do their best to help children, in many cases when they

just do not understand what the problem is, is perhaps a very simplistic way to

put it, a lack of understanding of the disorder and what it is all about.

We do work in the system. I recognize the member opposite and her comments

around ABA. I am familiar with ABA. I am sure my colleague will speak to it a

little later on, the Minister of Health and Community Services. I am familiar

with the fact that ABA is a program that many people feel is working and is

successful. I also need to acknowledge, Mr. Speaker, that it is only one of many

programs. I think my relative shared with me that Son-Rise might be another

program that is used by some. So I am not acknowledging that ABA is the best

program but I do acknowledge that, based on the consultations and discussions

that I have had with my colleague here in the House, as well as with

professionals in both departments of Health and Community Services and

Education, that it is a program that many people feel works for children.

Also, Mr. Speaker, I acknowledge the challenges that parents tend to feel

when children enter, not so much kindergarten, because there is a phase out

process when you enter the kindergarten grade, but when you move beyond

kindergarten and into Grade 1 and the full-fledged K-12 system where you are

attending school full time on a daily basis. I also acknowledge that people find

it extremely challenging that the kinds of supports that we offer there are not

always where people would like them to be. There are often struggles trying to

move from almost a culture shock where you are used to ABA on such an intensive

basis until the child goes to school and then while somewhat reduced in

kindergarten, you still do have the presence of this support. Then when you come

into Grade 1, the kind of services and supports that are provided are different.

Many of the supports, Mr. Speaker, that we try to provide currently around

occupational therapy, speech language pathology and professional development for

teachers, those are certainly important supports. I say that upfront. I think

families, certainly the families that I have dialogued with at least, would

acknowledge that when they get those supports they are important and they are,

in fact, valuable to the child. When the teachers get the proper training there

is great value in what the teacher can do in a school with a child in the

classroom.

Mr. Speaker, I want to say a couple of things, and I am mindful of my time. I

just want to make sure people of the House are aware that when we talk about the

kinds of things government has been doing, I want to remind people that through

our involvement in the Council of Atlantic Ministers of Education and Training (CAMET),

there has been a process introduced, a review of autistic services, the supports

to education for autistic children and families, the supports that are delivered

across Atlantic Canada. The intent is to try and seek out, for lack of a better

word, common ground on where each of the provinces individually doing good

things. From that, formulate collectively a plan that will help us bridge a gap.

The gap that I think people readily admit, people here in the House readily

admit that exists from moving from ABA and into the K-12 system. We are

certainly very pleased to be a part of that and to support that consultation

process.

Also, Mr. Speaker, I am certainly very pleased to make a comment on our own

initiative here in the Province. We do have an advisory committee on student

support services, but more specific to that, we have had some discussions with

the Autistic Society of Newfoundland and Labrador. As a government and a

department, our intention is to launch a consultation process in the very near

future. The terms of reference have been developed for the committee and the

advisory group and the kinds of work that it will engage in. It was our plan,

well in advance of today, Mr. Speaker, to launch that consultation process and

talk to people throughout the Province about where it is we can bridge the gap.

Mr. Speaker, I am going to jump right in, mindful of my time. I am going to

make an amendment to this motion, and here is why I am going to make the

amendment. As the motion currently reads, word for word, it would say to this

House that if you adopt the motion that you take ABA and you apply it to the

K-12 system. Now, Mr. Speaker, there are a number of reasons why that cannot be

done, and I am not even going to try to stand here in front of the cameras or

the people here, or the people out there and say that I have a scientific

explanation for that.

What I can say to you, Mr. Speaker, is that I have been told clearly by

parents and by members of the Autistic Society that ABA is not the answer for

every child in this Province. Autism comes on a spectrum where you have very,

very high functioning children who may have simple things, like an inability to

get along socially with people and then you have the other end of the spectrum

where the child has significant difficulty in all aspects of life, including

academics.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the appropriate process for us to follow is to

follow our consultation process to engage people in the Province and people up

here immediately, and I think those people need to tell us where they feel we

can go in the K-12 system and what kinds of services we can improve upon. For

example, I mention these because they have been mentioned to me, not because I

have the answers, but occupational therapy and speech language services are two

that we deliver. The other piece that we are responsible for is the professional

development of teachers, and I think one of my colleagues mentioned it earlier

in Question Period.

Now, I am not saying those are the answers. Let me very clear here. I do not

know if those are the answers but what I have heard from many people is that

when they get those services, those services are extremely valuable to the

children and the families. The complaint, for lack of a better word, is that

there are not enough of those services out there. I believe if we adopt this

motion, Mr. Speaker, we are locking ourselves into one program that may not

necessarily be for the benefit of the majority of autistic children. I believe

that it might be an answer for some and it may be able to be brought in as part

of a solution to go forward but I believe that there are many other alternatives

that parents are going to say to us, we need to invest our money and our time

and our resources in to better improve what we are doing for autistic children

in the Province.

Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I would like to read an amendment, and I would

ask the member if I could have leave in the event I go over time a little bit,

with permission?

Mr. Speaker, I would amend the motion that is currently before the House,

first of all: (

a) by striking out, in the second recital clause, the words

"the most common neurological disorder" and substituting therefore the

words "one of the most common neurological disorders."

My second point, Mr. Speaker: (

b) by striking out the sixth recital clause

altogether; (

c) by striking out the seventh recital clause and substituting

therefore the words "WHEREAS schools require appropriate resources to meet

the needs of students with autism"; and (

d) by striking out the resolution

clause and substituting therefore the following: "THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED

that this House calls on government to work with the Autism Society of

Newfoundland and Labrador, the Regional Health Authorities, School Boards and

with individuals and families touched by autism to enhance the quality of life

of persons with autism through progressive improvements to programs and

services."

Mr. Speaker, my final comment, with a moment of leave, is that I believe if

this amendment is adopted the House gives us the direction, gives me the

direction as a minister to immediately engage in this consultation process with

professionals and with parents to seek their input on what we can do to improve

what we currently have and make it better for families and for children,

recognizing, Mr. Speaker, that part of what may come out of that is that we need

to extend ABA and the principles of ABA in the K-12 system but it allows us to

talk about other things without carte blanche adopting ABA as the one and only

solution to the problem.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The House will take a brief recess so that the Chair can consult with the

Table and make a determination on the amendment as to whether or not it is in

order.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has reviewed the amendment that is put forward by the hon. Minister

of Education and deems the amendment to be in order.

The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

It is pleasure to be able to stand today and make a few comments with regard

to the Private Member's Motion which was put forward by the Member for

Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.

I am not going to read all the Whereases, but there are just a couple I do

want to touch on. It says, "WHEREAS the number of people receiving a

diagnosis of autism is on the increase in Newfoundland and Labrador; AND

WHEREAS

evidence based research shows that the lifetime costs of assisting a person with

autism can be reduced if the child receives early diagnosis, effective treatment

and adequate supports."

I understand, Mr. Speaker, there was an amendment put forward which I have

not had a chance to read yet, so I will just proceed with the comments that I

have with regards to this particular Private Member's Motion.

I know that the minister made some statements with regard to how families

feel throughout the Province, and before I finish that is where I am going to, I

guess, make my comments, with regard to families that I know in my particular

area of the Province and in general.

We all know, Mr. Speaker, that autism is a social and behavioural

neurological disorder that affects overall human development. I guess, the first

time that it was defined was some sixty years ago by Leo Kanner, and it has only

been in the last decade that public interest in this developmental disorder has

so drastically increased. I am sure each and every one of us can stand in this

hon. House and relate to different issues with regard to this disorder.

It is also staggering to know what the rates of diagnosis of autism in Canada

and Newfoundland are, as we speak. In 2006, we had about seventy-four children

diagnosed. Those numbers jumped to 114 in 2007. Mr. Speaker, currently we know

that the numbers for 2007 were one in one hundred and thirty-two, and the

majority of these cases were with boys. We are still waiting for the numbers for

2008 to be released, but we are told that they will be even higher than what

they were in 2007.

Mr. Speaker, I have been informed that the area where I live, Conception Bay

North - I understand that Trinity and the Conception Bay North area is one of

the highest areas of our Province where autism is taking place today.

We hear from Dr. Bridget Fernandez at the Janeway that there is a genetic

component to the disorder as there are some twenty genes identified in children

with autism, but she also admits there is an environmental factor that is

unknown. When you know that there are certain areas where the percentage of

individuals, young people, diagnosed with autism - and we do not know because,

like she said, the factor is unknown. There could be environmental issues. I

guess it says something, because, as a government and as individuals in this

Province, that is something we should put our attention to, to see what is

actually happening in some areas. It could be an industry, that is something we

do not know, or whatever factors could be playing a role there.

Mr. Speaker, when the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair made

her comments, she mentioned about the seventeen-month time delay from the time

the parents are referred to a psychologist to the time a child is diagnosed. We

all know, from time to time in our Province there are various issues when it

comes to our health care system, but those seventeen months, or pretty close to

two years, are very crucial to those young people because we know that from a

very early age much can be done to assist them.

We know that services are available here in our Province today. At the

present time, children diagnosed with autism, up to the age of six, receive the

following services: applied behavioural analysis; speech pathology services; and

occupational therapy. When it comes to this, Mr. Speaker, an intensive social

learning and behavioural modification therapy takes place; therapy to assist in

the development of communication skills, whether speech or picture recognition,

and then we have the occupational therapy, help with whether it is tying your

shoelaces, doing up buttons, holding a pencil, throwing a ball, all various

occupations of children.

However, at the present time, once a child turns the age of seven all these

services are cut off, and that is really what this private member's motion is

all about. We have heard today of incidents, we have received letters from

various individuals, knowing that once those services are cut off what the cost

will be to a parent. We know that it is approximately $12,000 a year they will

have to provide.

Mr. Speaker, some of the concerns have been expressed by various families:

one individual, a parent of a seven-year-old with autism, is hoping that

something will be done at this present time to put more funding into extending

the services beyond the age of six. They say for sure that they know what

families are going through. The minister mentioned in his own particular family,

the difficulties families and parents go through.

Another individual wrote that: We were told by the school and I have to

say, knowing this first-hand, issues that happen at the school level are

supported by the school board, but in this particular case that was exactly what

was being said. When the issue was brought forward at the school level they were

supported by the school board, however, they were advised that the Department of

Education is not accepting any new applications for support services within this

program. As a matter of fact, they thought that some of the services, as they

knew them at that particular time, would be taken away.

Mr. Speaker, other people go on to say, that we need funding for this early

intervention, for the general population. In turn it will save government huge

dollars and rescue a number of children from this epidemic. Mr. Speaker, the

list goes on and on. Another individual wrote what it will cost them.

Mr. Speaker, with regard to my last few comments with regard to this very

serious issue, I know in my area I had an incident, maybe three years ago, where

it came to the point that the family knew that once their child became age six

or over age six the services that could be provided to them in that particular

area were definitely going to be downgraded and the funding would not be there.

That family moved here to St. John's to live even though there was no funding

for them after he passed age six. They felt that they were in an area where more

services and more opportunity could be provided to that family.

I had another individual who, when they applied for funding, when the

services were not that the services were cut off, but what was being paid

for up to the age of six. They did an assessment to see if government would be

able to provide any financial support to them to help with this service provided

to their child. When the financial assistance was carried out, when the paper

work was done, they replied back to them that: We understand. They were not

wealthy people but they had an RRSP that they were trying to build, not only for

the child but for themselves in the future. They were told that you have to use

every penny that you have in your RRSP to provide continued service to your

child after the age of six.

There was another case back a few years ago, Mr. Speaker, when they entered

school and the family went through a tremendous time knowing that there were

some services there but really the services were not available - what were

expected and what were needed - to help that particular child when they went

into the school situation.

Some of the people are saying that they believe - and I understand where the

minister is coming from. He referenced one particular area of this problem, and

that maybe there should be an overall review. No doubt, I guess the association

and others will be very pleased to hear that, as long as it is not a review that

will be put together and then tabled and just forgotten about in the future.

Mr. Speaker, this is a very serious situation and I hope that government, in

their wisdom, will be able to look at the main motion. I know there is an

amendment there, and that will be dealt with shortly, but really the people are

asking for support for their children even beyond the age of six. Some of them

are asking, and they feel that this should continue on at least to the high

school level because they do need the supports.

The families, I believe, are crying out for help. Hopefully, through this

private member's motion today, whether the main motion is accepted in its

entirety or along with the amendment, at least I believe that something will be

done to help those families to carry on with their lives and to do whatever is

best for those young children who are involved with this disorder.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to make a couple of comments around the resolution itself, and then I

will make some comments with respect to the amendment proposed by my colleague.

I think one of the things we want to make sure is that people fully

understand and appreciate, the comments made by the Member for Port de Grave,

for example, a few moments ago, talking about the incidents and the diagnoses

that have occurred in the last number of years, and the increase in incidents,

let me just reinforce that view.

I am looking at some data here that suggests that back in 2002 there were

twenty-five newly diagnosed cases during that particular year, and that has

continued to increase progressively over the period of time from that point in

time up to this year. We have had years where there have been forty-two and

seventy people, seventy-six people. The year before last there were a little

over a hundred people diagnosed. Last year there were some forty-four people.

So, Mr. Speaker, there is no question at all, and the statistics that have

been cited and speaking to the resolution are very clear. There has been an

increased incidence and the diagnosis is on the increase, and I suspect there

are a number of reasons that might be. One of which, obviously, is that we are

becoming much better at early identification. Obviously, the earlier you are

able to identify a disorder, and the earlier you would be able to provide

intervention, the greater the chances of success, and support being brought to

bear early makes a major difference in the lives of those individuals who are

impacted.

Mr. Speaker, I want to make sure that there is a clear understanding, with

respect to our recognition as a government of the need to support children with

autism, that is without question. The issue of recognition that we need to

examine the kinds of supports and programs that we provide to children of

autism, and the supports that we provide to the families are critical

critical response and the critical responsibility that the government has.

I think, through my colleague and the amendment being proposed, it is not at

all to take away from the thrust of the comments with respect to the

significance and the impact that autism has on individuals and their families.

I think one of the things that become really important, Mr. Speaker - and we

have learned this is a variety of areas - as the motion would suggest, it is a

very prescriptive motion and it may or may not be an appropriate response for

everybody who is living with autism, or an appropriate response for their

families.

So I want to speak, if I could, to the proposed amendment to the resolution,

and I think it is an important point. Let me just take a moment to read it. It

says, "THEREFORE

BE IT RESOLVED that this House calls on government to work

with" - to work with is the operative word "the Autism

Society of Newfoundland and Labrador, the Regional Health Authorities, School

Boards and with individuals and families touched by autism to enhance the

quality of life of persons with autism through progressive improvements to

programs and services."

We have found, many times throughout government - and let's use by way of

example. As the Minister of Health and Community Services, I am also the

minister responsible for aging and seniors. A couple of years ago I had the

privilege of leading a Province-wide public consultation where we travelled to

some seventeen communities and spoke to over 1,000 people around aging issues in

the Province. It was a very valuable exercise because we heard from

organizations who were involved in supporting seniors. We heard from individuals

themselves who are supporting family members who are seniors. We heard from

seniors themselves, and we heard from community leaders, so we had a fairly

broad cross-section of people come to our consultations and I think we were

enriched by that process, Mr. Speaker.

We were enriched because we had a broader understanding of the issues facing

an aging population in Newfoundland and Labrador. As a result of that broad

consultation, as a result of that significant input from a variety of people, we

were able to put together a Healthy Aging Framework, and launch it in 2007, that

has guided us in the investments and initiatives of government over the last two

years.

I think, Mr. Speaker, there will always be times when people will want to

make further enhancements, further improvements, or there might be criticisms of

not doing enough or doing it too slow, but I think what is really important,

though, is that you engage the community, you engage the people who are affected

by it, you engage the people who better understand the issue sometimes than most

of us who sit in this Assembly here.

That is why I think this proposed amendment to this motion is a critical

piece to help guide us to ensure that we have a successful outcome. There is no

mistake here, Mr. Speaker; all of us, every single person who sits in this

Assembly today, and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, all understand the

need to continuously try and improve the services that we provide. In this

particular case we are talking about people who are living with autism, talking

about their families and the support that they need. No one at all, Mr. Speaker,

would ever suggest that as a government, as a society, we should not be

responsive to the changing needs of our society, the changing needs of

individuals, in this case with autism, but we need to do it right, Mr. Speaker.

We need to be certain that what we are doing, we are making informed decisions,

and we are involving those people who are actively engaged.

Several years back, as a provincial government, there was about $40,000 a

year being provided to the Autism Society. As a result of some discussions with

the society, talking about programming that they provide and the supports that

they need, we are providing a $325,000-a-year grant to the society so they can

continue to do that work that they do on behalf of the people with autism in

this Province and their families.

Mr. Speaker, let there be no doubt, let there be no doubt at all, that as a

government we are keenly interested in building on the services we now have. We

recognize, and the member opposite pointed out, the wait times for assessments.

We recognize that today, for example, we have had some staff turnover, and as a

result of that staff turnover there have been some delays in the recent past.

When we get the staff who we just recently recruited gone through some training

programs they will be back on track with the full complement that we enjoyed

several months ago.

There will be times in the delivery of programs and services that you will

have interruptions, you will have some delays. That may happen periodically

because of some human resource challenges, but, Mr. Speaker, always it is our

intention as a government, it has always been our intention as a government, and

that is what will guide us in the future. Our interest is what is in the best

interest of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and we respond to the

changing needs of various sectors of our society, various sectors of our

communities but when we respond we want to make sure that we are making the

right decision, it is evidence-based decision making. What this proposed

amendment - and I say to the members of the House that I will be supporting the

proposed amendment because I believe it reflects a process that is appropriate

for us to guide us as we move forward. To stand in this House today, or to sit

in this House as a group of individual members and to support a resolution that

is very prescriptive and may or may not do what the intention of the mover would

have been.

I think in all seriousness and in all fairness to the member opposite who

moved the motion, it was her intent and it was her party's intent, I am

certain, to ensure that she in fact at the end of the day, the result of a

motion such as this would see some improvements in the services being provided

to children with autism and supports to their families. The intention, I am

certain, was to ensure that what we did as a government was the right thing but

I think, Mr. Speaker, what we want to try to do is to better understand - there

are many theories, many views, many thoughts. There is one consistent view,

though, Mr. Speaker, and that is that there is a need to improve services, and I

will not argue that point.

The point being raised in this House today for us to debate and the substance

of the motion and the thrust of the motion is to take a particular type of

action. So by proposing an amendment, it is not to take away at all from the

thrust of the motion, not to take away at all from the intent by the mover, not

to take away at all from any of the comments that have been made about the

incidence of autism, the significance of it, the impact it has on individuals

and families, the challenges these people find as they walk through various

stages of their lives, but I say, Mr. Speaker, it is important to do what is

right. I believe that the motion as proposed here talks about a consultation

process. It talks about engaging people who understand, it talks about engaging

families, it talks about engaging communities, the Society for Autism for

Newfoundland and Labrador.

So, Mr. Speaker, with that I will conclude my comments, but I do want to

reiterate. As a government, we have made a commitment to improving the quality

of life for the people who live in Newfoundland and Labrador. That is an

inclusive statement to talk about all members of society, and we will continue

to build on the programs and services that we provide through Health and

Community Services and in this case here, Mr. Speaker, in partnership with our

colleagues in Education.

Across government there are many initiatives that we undertake that crosses

many department boundaries. In this particular case here I look forward to

working very closely with my colleagues in Education as we engage in this

consultation process. The lead on the consultation will be the Department of

Education. However, officials from my department and myself will be actively

involved in the process as well because there is a crossover here between both

departments, but also too, the school boards and the regional health authorities

will be actively engaged in this process and the outcome, Mr. Speaker, will be

clear. We will all, all members of this House, together with government itself,

will have a good understanding and a better feeling today, and a better

understanding after it is over than we do have today about what might be an

appropriate action. When we come back to that, some of the suggestions that are

made in the initial motion may be implemented, but we will not know that until

that consultation is concluded.

I say, Mr. Speaker, on that note, I conclude my comments and thank you for

the opportunity to make my brief remarks.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am very pleased to have the opportunity to speak to the motion that is

before us on Autism Spectrum Disorders, and the amendment that has been

suggested by the Minister of Education.

I have problems with the amendment. I do not have problems with the intent of

the amendment. Obviously, I believe that this government should work with the

Autism Society of Newfoundland and Labrador. They should already be working with

them. I presume that they are, but I do not think it is to a satisfactory

degree. Obviously, the House would call upon the government to work with the

regional health authorities and the school boards. I am presuming, it does not

say it, but I would hope that it is the Department of Education who is also

going to be working on this issue as well. The Department of Education is not in

the resolution, in the amendment.

Obviously, I believe in consultation, and obviously I believe that especially

the Autism Society should be consulted by the different authorities, whether it

is the regional health authorities or the school boards, or the Department of

Education, and that the individuals and the families who live with autism,

either because the individual has ASD or the family that supports the

individual. So they all live with ASD in one form or another, in one meaning or

another. Everybody wants to improve the quality of life, both for those

individuals who are suffering from ASD and also for the families who are living

with the individual.

So all of us want everything that is in the amendment, but I think the

amendment, personally, waters down the intent or the meaning of the original

proposal. What does it mean to say: Through progressive improvements to programs

and services? How long are we going to have to wait for government to come up

with what that means? We have been over a year now waiting for some action on

this issue. Yet, today, what we have before us is an amendment that promises

that there will be consultations and that through those consultations we hope to

come to a point where there will be an enhancement of the quality of life of

persons with autism through progressive improvements to programs and services.

What I am concerned about is that this resolution actually slows down the

process. I do not think that consultations, long drawn-out consultations

actually have to happen. I think the Autism Society and individual parents and

families have spoken loud and clearly with regard to the needs. Everybody

recognizes the things that are there that are positive, and I recognize them as

well. What government is providing with regard to an early intervention program

for young children with the diagnosis of ASD is excellent, and the early

intervention program is proving to be very, very successful. It definitely,

significantly improves the outcomes for children with ASD and their families;

there is no doubt about that.

Under this program, and maybe not everybody watching us today is aware of

what the early intervention program involves, but under this program children

who are diagnosed with ASD are offered thirty hours a week of home therapy,

which is supervised by a senior therapist from Eastern Health. This therapy has

really proven itself to be successful. It is the main medical intervention

received for children with ASD.

What we have to keep in mind with ASD is that while quality of life can be

enhanced, and while depending on what part of the spectrum one may find oneself,

one can have a quality of life as one becomes an adult, improved from where one

was as a child, but the reality is, a person will always have ASD. It does not

go away. It is a lifelong disorder. It is something that is a profound

disability, more profound for some than for others. It impacts the life of the

person, it impacts the family of the person, it impacts parents, and it impacts

siblings. Anybody who has had experience in their family, either in their

immediate family or extended family, of somebody who has been diagnosed with ASD

and different disorders that fall under autism, such as Asperger's Syndrome,

knows the impact that that disorder has on the individual and on the family.

The situation that we are in right now is that children with ASD receive this

early intervention from the time of their diagnosis until they enter

Kindergarten. In Kindergarten the therapy is reduced to fifteen hours a week,

and at the beginning of Grade 1 that intervention ceases. Children and families

who have been used to having this home therapy, while it becomes more limited in

Kindergarten they are still used to having this home therapy. Once they start in

school the home therapy ends. Now, I do not know what the thinking is around

that. I can imagine what the thinking is around it. It is that the school is

going to take over, the school situation is going to take over from the home

therapy, that the school situation is going to have programs that will make up

for the home therapy.

One thing seems clear, from those who studied ASD and those who have done

evaluation of early intervention and home therapy programs, that about 50 per

cent of the children benefit from that to the degree that they could, in school,

not need the home therapy that has been provided up to now, that their disorders

are of such a nature that they really benefit very well from the home therapy.

There is another 50 per cent of the children who get home therapy who, in actual

fact, still need extensive help when they go on into Grade 2. They do not

magically, automatically, all of a sudden, not need what they needed before. It

is not that they reach a limit, they can improve beyond, but they cannot do it

on their own, they need extra help, they need extra support.

What our program right now does not recognize is that there are people, there

are families, who do get the extra help that is not available from the system,

that is not available from schools and that is not available from the health

care system, but the families who do are the families who can afford it. You get

a disparity between families who can afford to get the extra help once the child

is no longer eligible for the early intervention, because the child is now into

Grade 2, that once that happens, those who cannot afford anything else, their

child is not going to have as much help as the child whose family can afford it.

You know, I speak personally from this. I do have a nephew who has Asperger's

Syndrome, and he was fortunate enough to live in British Columbia. The

interventions that he experienced in his schooling, all the way up to junior

high school, were amazing. By the time he got to junior high school, he no

longer needed the intense interventions that were there for him all the way

along. He went through everything from the home therapy through to having an aid

with him all day long, in the beginning, in the classroom with him, through to

now being ready to look at university; like another story that was told here

today. One, he was in a province that offered help all the way through the

school system, and, two, he was in a family who could also afford to get more

help if more help was needed.

That is the kind of disparity that we do not want to have. I do not think we

want to have it Province-wide, and I do not think we want to have it

family-wide, that any child who has ASD, no matter where on the spectrum the

child is, should be able to get all the assistance they need.

Studies have shown that an adult with autism who requires full-care group

home life, once they become an adult, that it costs the state about $250,000 a

year to keep that person in a group home with full care,

whereas, if money is

put into the system while children with ASD are in school, and we come up front

with the programs that are needed and I am not saying that every single one

of the 50 per cent of the children who did not benefit enough from early

intervention are going to need the same intensity for the rest of their lives in

the schools, but they are going to extra help. If we put the money up front

then, we will be saving money down the road, because most likely they will not

require to be in a full care home situation, costing the state $250,000. It is

money wisely spent for us to put money up front now while the children are in

the school system.

Another thing that is happening - and I want to speak to this because I have

been speaking to families who have children with ASD - three parents who I have

been in touch with today, one of those parents, and I want to speak for them

because they cannot be here in this room and speak for themselves, so they are

watching. They are watching all of us. One of those parents has a seven-year-old

child with an above-average I.Q. who has not been in school at all for most of

this year. The school believed that attending school was unsafe for the child,

for other children and for staff. This family has been under intense stress

because of that decision, because now this family has the sole responsibility

for this very disabled child, twenty-four seven. They are the only ones with

responsibility for this child and that child has two siblings, so you can

imagine what this has meant for that family. Right now, he is currently being

transitioned back into school. He is allowed to attend school for forty-five

minutes twice a week right now. That child has a really special need and that

family should not have to handle that situation on their own.

I spoke to another parent who told me about their eleven-year-old son, again

a child with an average I.Q., and that parent said her son was expelled from

school for three weeks and since then has slowly begun a transition back to

school. He is now allowed to attend a little over three hours a day.

These are some of the situations that are out there. These are the situations

that government is going to hear about, if government has not already heard

about them. I cannot believe that I would be the only person who is being told

these stories. I am sure that my colleague, the Leader of the Official

Opposition, in bringing her motion forward today, brought it forward because

she, too, has these stories coming to her. We get them from individuals, and we

get them from the Autism Society. They are out there. I am positive that some of

my colleagues on the government side of the House have to be getting these

stories also.

I am sorry about the amendment, because I think we would have assumed there

should be consultation anyway, whether or not that word was put into a