Volume XLI Monday Province of Newfoundland FORTY -FIRSTGENERAL ASSEMBLY OF . NEWFOUNDLAND Second Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard} Speaker: Honourable Thomas Lush [Preliminary Transcriptj Number 28 7 May 1990

The Housr::• 111et at 2:00p.m . M R . S P E A I< Er\ ( 1... u s h )_ : Oi"der, p1ease! Oral Questions MR. RIDEOUT : Mr. Speaker·. MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the Lead€~1" of thE! Opposit:i.on. MR. RIDEOUT : Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker . Now that details of the federal assistancC:~ packagE! t:o address the fisheries crisis has been announced, and in vi1~lJ..J of thE! fact that the Premier and the Government, part.iculai"ly throu~~h thE! Throne S p I::H:~ c h ~and thE!

Budget Speech, have indicated that the Province is prepared to Financially assist in addressing th:i.s majo1n crisis :i.n the fishE!l"Y as tJ..Je.l1, Mr. Speakeln, could the Premier tell the House whether the Province will now be announcing an assistanu~ package fol" thE• fishN'Y that tJ..Ii.ll b€~ cornplement:.a1ny to l:.he federal package, the details of which were announced earlier today? MR. SPEAKEr' : ThE! han . thE:~ PlnE!miE!In. PREMIER WELLS: No, Mr. Speaker, t.ue wou·ld not do such harm to the fishermen and people of this Province as to opE!rate on thE! same basis as they are op1~rating.

We have a diffE•Jnent conce1nn. We havr::! a concern For an opportunity for peoplE! engagE!d 'in thE! f:i.sh€:!ry to seek alternative employment opportunities elsewhere, on a volunt.ai"Y basis if t:h1?y tJ..Janl.: t.o do L1 May '7, 1.990 VoJ. XLI 1t. We are not going to t . . l . l I I - ·' "L pal"-.J.Clpa ·:.e tJ..J:J ·.:·1 l:.1e 1-uo1:!1"a. Government program of pressur i ng people oul:. of th1::! f tshE:~I"IJ, as they are seeking to do. We think it is totally Wlnong. MR. SPEAKER: ---··-·-·-··-·-·-·--··----··- ThE! hon. the Leader of t:he Opposition. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr.

Speaker, I rnus t say l:.o thE! f>lnE!rrl:i.E!ln t.h~:! focus of my ques t:'.i.on t;.Jas is ·t:hE! Pl"ov:inc'ial Cov.::~J"nlnf:•nt pr'E!pai"E!d to announCE! a packaqr::!, a complementary package - not the Scllfle packaqe, thei.1n OtJ..JI'l packar:JE'. Wi1l th1~ P1nov:i.nce use :il:.s f : uncltn~1 i.t. had been pl"C::!paJ"eci, :it. had said, Fo1n quite so1nr:~ l:.irnf::~, l:.o 'i.njuct l.u help solve the fishery crisis? Will the Province use i.t.s Fundtng to announce its assistance package, the Focus oF tJ..Jh·:i.ch tJ..r:i.J.l be the Government's and the Premier's, Mr. Speaker? MR.

SPEAKER: ThE! hon . the Pl"em:i.eJ" . PRFMIEr' WELLS: Mr. Speakl:'ln, :i.t is d-Lf' f~ i culi· l:.o believe that anybody cou.lcl be:• so ill - informed as l:.o the real problems in the Newfoundland F:ishe1ny and ·thr:~ n:>al concerns. We put a pl"oposal to l:he FedE!ral Government :in respect of t;.Jh:ich tJJe have not ye!'l: had an <HlSIJ..JC::'I". WE! are still prepared t o work with the FE!deJnaJ. GovE~I"niTlE!nt t.o pu t l::ha t: proposal into E!ffecl:. In t.he conversations I held last rd.qht:. with Mr.

Valcourt, there were a couplE! of ar'E!aS whE!I"E:! hE~ is prepared t:o hear further lneplnE!SC::!ntattons f Jnorn Lhe Plnov'i.nc:ia] . GoVE!rniTlf::~nt, and l:.hal:. is onr:~ of l:.hE!rn. If t.hE!IJ c:,ll"e Pl"epaJ"E!cl l:.o cont.inue to lAJOI"i< tAJi.t:h us, tJ..Je aJ"C::' pinr::•pai"E!d t.:o con t::inuc• l:.o lJ..JOI"i< tAJi. l:.h thc~m. I ·F nol:., Mln. Spr:•akeln, No. 28 (Afb:!l"l'lOOI'

l) I~ :1

the Provincial Government will have to proceed on its own La PJ"ovtcle For d:ivt:~J"sif·.ical::ion of the economy of Lhis Province without the help and, indeed, in the face of some hindrance on the part of the Federal Government in their approach . riK .. :....__.~_.E_sM.~ .B : The han. the LeadE~r of the Opposition. MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . The Province, in correspondence JJJith the FedPJ"a1 CovE!J"nJnE:'nl:. has indical:ecl its IAJi.llingness to cost-sharP programs on an 80/20 basi. s, I bt"'! 1 i eve, r~rom information released by the Premier today.

Now, I understand that the federal aiel packagE~ announced today, something in excess of $300 million of that package will be spent in this Province. The Premier is shaking his head. MaybE! he 1Ari .11 cor-rec l: it u-Jhen he gets up. In view of the fact that 20 per cent of that would be something in the order of $60 rni1lion, is the ProvincE~ prepared to deLdSE! a packagE! of assistanCE'! to the Fishing industry in that amount, OJ" rnoJ"e, the rnoney it has said itself it was prepared to spend, Mr. Speaker? Mr~. SPEAKEr~: The han. the Premier. PREMIER WELLS: No, Mr.

SpE~aker, because the Federal Government is going about it the wrong way. Here is what they are doing. The Federa1 GoveJ"nlfiE!nt has responsib:iJ.ity, has exclusive jurisdiction. MR. WARREN : (Inaudible) . L2 May '7, 1990 Vol XU PI~EMIEI~ WELLS: Ml" . SpeakE:! I", j_f t:.hE:! hon . Me1nbe1" r--or TOI"ngat·: Mounta.i.ns IAJOL.ll d bt! qu-:i.E:!t, ITic::.tybE! thE! I"E!S l:. of t:.he people would hear, and he:~ rnight even 1earn something. MR. WARREN : My way or no way . MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! PREMIEr~ WELLS: Mr. Speakr,~r, l:.he FeciE!r'a1 Go v E! r n rn c"~ n t has q onE~ about i. l:. l. hE! wrong way.

The FedE!ral. Cover·nnh:!nt has excl.usive jurisdiction over th'" rnana~~~~rnent of the f'i.sheJ"Y stocks i.n dt:!t:eJ"fll·in:ing IAJho cc:tt.ches u-Jhat f:ish, in IAJhat . arnounl:s, tJJhun, what time, and so on. Now, the consequences of their JTJ:l.srnana~~E!ITIE!nt oF thE! f'isheJ"ies is theiJ" responsibi.l:i.ty, and I.UE! haVE! taken tha ·t posi ti.on IAiith them a] J along.

We said to thern, if you are pr'E!pared to pul sorne addit.iona1 funds i.nl:.o heJp:ol.nq t"E!SOlVE! thr:! 1ong -teJ"In pi"ob]erns of ­ the fishc::~ry, by ~~ivtng l:.he pE!Opli~ who have to J.ook to thE' -Fi.shet'·y an a1tet"native, the choice, i.f they JJJc ·1n t t.o, e.i.t.her to sLay tAJj th l..he FishE!ry OJ" to choose l:.o F'incl employment opportunities elsewhere, if you are pr~C!pal"E:!cl to work with us, we will put. up those funds. W'" offered this packaq1~, a tota1 package of over $500 rni11ion, and IAJE! ofFeJ"ecl l:.o pay $110 milJ.ion of it to address these problems.

ThE~ Foder·al Government went diametrically the opposite. They put for'Wdt"cl a pi"oqrarn u-Jhich thr:=!y c_oulcl have done, Fol" aLl the t:_j _rne UH"'!Y hav1~ Laken, lasL DecE~mber·. I do not. knou-J what they have bE'E'n u-Ja:Lt .'ing for' . Everyth:i .nq they c~nnouncecl today Lhey could have announced J.ast DE!CE!JnbE•J"; t.hel"E! is noLhjnq new that they have announced. No. 28 (AftE~I"nOCHl) 1~2

What l:.h~:!Y d:icl, M1~. Spc::•akel~, in the case of t·.hr:~il" pl"oposaJ., IAJa<; to put: Forward a program which deals only ulith that aspect: of it, the i.rnmediat.e nec:~cls of WOI"i<E~rs and l:h~~ comrnunit.i.es involved. WE! agr·E~l':~ that was part of it, that had to be addressed as well, but thE! fundamental problem is diversifying the economy of this Province so as to give those who are forced to look to the fishei"Y as a means of earning an income, or an opportunity to get unemployment :insurance qualifications, to give them the free · choice to choose to go elsewhere.

Instead, what l:.he Federal Government came up with IAJas $90 milli.on. NOIAJ, l~isten, Ml". Spr~akE!I", to thE~ rest of it. OVE!r five yr~ars, that is $18 mi11ion a yecu~ SPI"ead amongst the four Atlantic Pl"ovinces. NouJ what good i.s that going to do in terms of diversifying the economy of Newfoundland so as to ~Jive p~:!ople who h a v e to 1 o·o k to the F i s hE' I" i e s some reasonable alternative eJse1..uhe1"e i.n · the C:'conomy -.if l:.hE!Y want to do so, to do it voluntarily?

Instead, what they al"e doing is putting in sevE~rance packages, proposals and payments like this, and regulations to prevent part-time fishermen from becoming full-time fishermen and to induce ful1-time fishermen to lc:1ave the industry. ThE~n 1..uhat al"e thE~Y going t.o do next year· as a means of income, and the year after that, if we do not diversify the economy? So they have gone about it total1y the wrong way. We are going to have to discharqe thE! Fedel"a1 GoVE!rnlriE!nt' s responsibilities as weJ.l as our Ol..Un. MR. SIMMS : What nonsense!

It.-. i.s t.irne to Face L3 May 7, :1.990 Vo1 XLI the fact, Government:. boy, hei"Cc!. r.1K .. : .... -.?-~~I.B_~_EL_~_ : The hon . t:h~:! Opposit.i .on. MR. RIDEOUT : t.ha l: you LeaciE:'r' Thank you, Mr. Speaker . a I" E~ L h 1':! of' t. h (' On another day we wi.ll get into the Agreement in prjnciple which was reached last fall between this Government and the Government of Canada, outlining everything l:.he Premier appears to be against today, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

SpeakE!I", :i.n v-:i.c::•!AI or l:hc::~ ~~-act: that thE~ feclel"a1 a:icl pctcka~JC::' ha~:; spE:'ciFic cornrnunit.y clc::•vt'~lopiiiC:!nl Funds cleclicalecl to t rying to diversify the economic base of comrnunit:i.es uJhel"e p1<:lnt:.s have br:•en announced to close, can the Pl~ern:iel" teLl the HousE~ IAJhethel'' 01~ not the Province uli.11 fund a sirni1ar program ded:i.catecl to trying to do l:.he same thing in othe1" cornrnunit:·.i.es IAJhE•I"e pJ<:tnl.s al"e in -troubl~'?., fOI" c:~xamplE!, FUI"I'rlel,!Se, Jerseyside, New Fero1le and P i. c c ad i 11 y , a 1 J t.-. h o s E~ o l-_ h e I" p J a n l:. s in Ne!AJfounciJ.and and l ... abl"adOI", and those corr11nunities?

Will Lh::• PI~E!HiiE!I" fund a s.irni1al" PI"Oqr<~rn Lo diversify the economy oF tho~'''' communities, Mr. Speaker? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the PI"E:~Inier . PREMIER WELLS: Mr. Speaker, the Federa1 Government did that which everybody advised them wou1d be thE:~ in·corl"ect thing; they took a lump of rnonr"Y and th1~e1;.,J ~i L i'tt. t:_he coJ!'IInunit:iE!S and people, IAJil':h no p1anni.nq, no noth:in~J. -1-he_y cou1cl havc::! done that 1ast December. Instead, they f iddle - Fadcl1ecl For months. It I;..Jas this GoVE:!I"nlnenl: No. 2 8 (Aftel"noon) R3

which had to put up $1~ million to get more time so that people would not be tht"OlAJI1 out on Ute streE!tS while the Federal Government played politics with this qUE!Stion. It was this GovernrnE!nt which had to do that, and it was this Government which did it when the time came to do it. Mr. Speaker, there is nothing specific or positive in what the Federal Government has done. They took a lump sum of money and said i(-- you are Canso, you had so many people affected so we will allocate so many million; if you are Trepassey, you had so many people, u..Je u..Jill a.lloca'l:e so many mil1ion; i.f you arE!

Gr'and Bank ... , and they just put. a 1.ut 'np sum of money, no plannin~~, no no thing. They could have done that last December, Mt". Speaker. Whe-re have they been for the last six months? MS VERGE: They were waiting for your proposal. PREMIEI~ WELLS: They WE!rE' lAJcdtoi.ng for nothing. They did nothing. We put them to them, and they sat and twiddled thE!ir thumbs and did nothing. Not.u, Mtn. Speai<E:~ln, we at"e going to build the economy of this Province, even agaoi.nst the Opposition. We are going to build it so that it tAr.i1l be fait" to all our people.

What I cannot understand, Mr, Speaker, is the cave-in of the Opposit.ion who, just in the last few u..Jeeks, have beE!n cornplain:i.ng about forcing people out of the fishery. Well, that is exactly what the Federal progt"am u..lill do, it will force people out of the fishery instead of - AN HON. MEMBER: L4· May 7, 1990 Vol. XU Which you want . PI~EMIEI~ WELLS : I clo not ·u..JcHlL. the ·- MR. RIDEOUT: I lAJ<:l n t:. L o cl evE· 1 o p (Inaudible) ancl- you agrE!~:!d to it . MR. SIMMS: The old master is at it again. PREMIER WELLS: Just go back and look at the record. MS VERGE: We have that.

PREMIER WELLS: Wo1.l, plE!ase do. Plr:.ase clo, and show it to mE•. Just qo back and l0ok at the total record. Do not pick six words out of :it and deceive the people of this ProvincE:', look at thE! toted t"ecol"CI and you u..Jill see, Mr. SpeakE•r, that the position of the Government is to prov:i.de for ot"dE!l"1Y, altet"nat.j ,vE•, E!Conont:ic ~=~mployrnent so that Lhe ·people enqagr~d in thE! fisher'y u..J:i.ll., at. the vr::~ry least, haV E! l:.he chn .. ic1::- of bei.ng able to ~;t.ay t;.rith t .. he fishery if they want - MS VERGE: (Inaudible) .

PRFMIEf~ WFI...LS : If t:he hon. the East would stay hear the rest of can have her say. Me rn b e l" F o l" l·lutn b e t" quiet she wou1d it, and thE!n she So that peopJ.e can choose, Mr. Spectker, on a fait" basis to sl:.ay t.uit .h t:he fisher'y, Jf that .is tA.Jhal. they u..Jant to do, or .look sornet;.Jhere el.SE!, Our basic pt"ob1etTl not~.J :i.s out" peop1e do not havr:. t:hat alternative becau se there is no other econotnic a.ll:.l'l"nal:.'ivl', and No. 28 ( Af ten10on) f\ fj

t- that is where the Federal 'Government plan has fallen down miserably in terms of dealing with Newfoundland 1 s economic problems and the fishermen 1 s problems. .!'.1..R.._. ~I~r1§ : You are doing a attacking the Feds. going to do? gr·eat What job of are you !'.1.R...: ... __ .§J..I.EL!S .. ~-~ : The hon. the LeadE!r of the Opposition. Mf~. fUDEOUT: Mr.

Sp1::!aker, for the LeadE!r o(: a GovelnnmE!nt wh:i.ch only subrn:ittE!cl its detailed proposal to the FeciE:~lnaJ Govelnnrnr:!nt on Apln~i.1 3, you would haVE! to have the Face of a robber 1 s horse to stand in this House and get on with the nonsense the Prem:i.er is getting on with. Here is Speaker, the document.

Now, Mr. can we conclude from the no' no' no anSlAJelnS the PlnE!I'fd.ein has given to this House today as to p1novincial financial inuoJ.uemE!nt in an aiel package For the NewfounciJ.and fishery that this GoUE!rnrn,:!nl:. is prepar''~cl to sil: back, wring its hands and hide behind a smoke scrE!E:~n o ·f blarrri.ng it all on thE! FE!CI~~ral Goue1nnment? Is that the extent of this Government 1 s wil1ingness to deal with this problem, Mr. Speaker? Ml~. SIMMS: Right on! MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Pn!mier· . PREMIER WELLS: No, Mln.

SpE•akE•ln, that. 'is misrepresentation of Government position Opposition, and I lJ.Jil.l th~:! House an E!Xarnp}E! lniSl"eplnE!SC:~nt.at.ion. He by just. of said the the the tell that this L5 May '7, 1990 Vol XLI . l I f- . t I t . ·1 I .. 1 t J.s · ~1e ... ·.lrs ·:·. ce ·:.a:J ... oc p1noposa .. pu ··: by l .. hE! Gov~:~l"nlnE:!nt .. It: j_s not:. The P 1n o v :inc :i a l t. as k 1: o l" c e lAJa ~:; lAJOinking lAr:.l.th thE!

Fecle1~a1 l:ask force to work out a joint proposal for months before that, and were ready, willing and able to put these proposals forward and develop them on a joint basis, until the appointment of Mr. Valcourt and, for whatevE•i" rE!ason, matters changed then. Whether that. has to do with Mr. Valcou1nt or it was a Federal Government direct decision inclep,~ndenl:. oF M1~. VaJcou1nt, I h.aVE! no tAJi'l.Y of knOL.uing. WhatE:~VE!r th''" caus1:~, 'it coincidE!cl lAJtth that point 'in til'IJ(''.

The last meeting was held on March 7th with the Federa1/Prov:incial joint task force and, from that point on, it tAJas cJ.E:~iH' they lAJE:!I~,,! not qoing to pu1nsue that COUI"Se. So we instructed our task force to cleVE!lop the pi~oposaJ. Jnclc,:!penclent1y and it lAJas done lAJithin l:.IAJO lAJeeks; '.it tAJas clonE! in Ma1nch of this Vedl~ and was hand delivered to Mr. Va1cout"t on Apl"-.1.1 3 and lAJC:! ~>l'.~tJ.1 do not have a respons~::! Fl"orn Ml". Va1court, st:i .. l1 no l"esponse.

T h(:• detailed proposal is there oF what this P l~ 0 V-.i. n c E! j s p l" e p d l" E:! cl 1.~ o cl Cl L 0 develop Lho econolllY of l..h,:• Province, to g:ive OUI" f'Jshel"nlen and peoplo involved :in Fish processing dlternative employment opportunities on a fair and proper basis. MS VEI\GE: -··-···········---·- ··---···· Some alternative . MR. MATTHEWS: Mr . Speaker . Mf~ . SPEAKER : Th1;! hon. l:he M1:!rnb1:!1n fol" Crane! 13ank . MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Spoaker . No. 28 (Af lE!l~noon) r~ ~:i

My qu~~s U .on is to thE! Premiel", as tAJE!]}. I t..uou1cl like to J"efE!l" him to pa~JIC! ~' o·l his pi"ess sl:.al:.o1nent today, tAJhE:!J"E• he :i.ncl"icatr:!d the Province was willing to cost-share on an 80/20 basis. He said, 1 • •• to the Response Program proposal, and has set aside $110 million for this purpose over a five--year period, some $20 mi1lion a year. 1 I would like to ask the Premier, since he has been so critical of what has been announced by the Federal Government today, saying it has been donE! the wrong way, wi1l thE!

Premier now undertake to spend t h :i. s ~Ill :1. 0 mi. 1 J. i. o n a n cl cl o i t t h E! Pl"opel" way? MR. SPEAKER : The han . the Premier. PREMIER WELLS: I have no doubt, Mr. SpeakE!r, that over the next five years this $110 million will be spent.

The Province wi1l spend a good deal moJ"e than that:. to do it the J"ight way, so that the pE!Ople of this Province can stay and live and WOI"k :i.n l:his Pr·ovinCE!, and ear·n a living with dignity and SE!J .f-TE!SPE:'Ct, t..uhich i.S morE• than tht;!Y lAJi .Jl eVE!l" be ablE! to do if thE! prE!Sent GovE~rnment in Ottawa, with its approach, continues to run this country. As soon as we get a change, t..ue will have a good (inaudib]

e) Province. MR. R. AYLWARD: Ti-ie._siiiiTie ... _o"'fCi--9 arb age . MR. RIDEOUT : That is what they did wrong : MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank . MR. MATTHEWS: Tii .. al"l-i( ........ y.a·c,-·~·-· -M·r . s p e a k e r . 1...6 May 7, 1990 Vo1 XU Yes, it . rnight bE! sotnethinq ]·i\<o:! t. h e I" E! a 1 c h a n <~ e t h E! p e o p ] e j n L l"1 ,::· PJ~ovi.ncE! aJ"E• St:'~;~j.nq si.nc1::! l:hoi.s Pl~E!lfliE!l" took ove1", paJ"t:icuJaJ"ly the peoplE! in the ga11r:·r·i.es today; they don 1 t have anywhE•re to t..uork, there is no fishery 1eft. Mr. Speaker, I have a questi.on for· the Premier.

On page 3 of the letter he sent, his very late letter to the Minister of Fisheries, Mr. Va1court, Apl""i .l 3, hE' rnakE!S l~efE!I"E!nCE! to E•xarnp].r::•s or audited fishing operations and inclustriE!S in. LhE! Pl~ov:ince and he says, 'A fishing gear manufacturing operation in a community liko GJ"and Bank lAJOI.Jlcl b1:• a g o o cl r::! x a rn p J. e o r· a b a c k tAl a 1" cl linkage fishing op~C! J"ation 1--ol'"· thaL town . Cou1d the Prem:l.er· l:e11 the House if the Provincial Government did any J"E!SE!aJ"ch on that l:.ype or · operation for the town of Grand Bank? If so, what IAJE~l"t:! the findings? MR.

SPEAKER : --- --- The hon. t.he PJ"E•JTlieJ" . Pr~EMIEr~ WELLS: No . It is not a brand net.1.1 idc•a. We have been puLLing iL Forward For seVE!l"al JTJonths Lo t.hE! FedeJ"al FishE!J"iE!S Task Fot"CE!. It had been proposed for severaJ months. I was present on sorne occasions when it was proposed, as \Alas U11:• M ~i n i s t e r of F :i s her· i (~! s . T hE! I"(,' tAle r t:! ol:h(,~J~ pJ"oposals t:·.hal: . t;.Jou]d pl"ov·icJ,:! for alternative ernpJoyment opportunities in Grand Bank, as well as the manufacturing of Fishing ~~ear. Little Iceland, Mr.

Speaker, with a population ha1F Lhe size of this Province's popuJaLion, nol: onJy manufacturers all of i ts own fishing gear, it manufacturers a great deal of the fishing gear used in this Province. One No. 28 (AFl:eJ"noon) 1~6

company, F"ishE~d.es f>J~oclucts aJ.one, imports $1 miJ.lion worth of f"ishing qec:tJ~ a yE:!aJ" ft~orn lCE!1ancl, apart ft~om lAJha ·t. it irnpo1nt.s From other parts of the world. Mr. Speaker, we can create a great many jobs in this Pr-ovince if we put in place a sit~ation that will enable fishing gear. gear used in thE! fisheri~::~s, or induce it to be built in this Province, manufacturE!d in this ProvinCE!, and supplied to fishermen all over the Province. There is a good opportunity to diversify in that way. MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Member for Grand Bank . MR. MATTHEWS: Thank yau, Mr. Speaker.

I would just like to remind the Premier that when the restructuring process took place in the early 1980s this kind of an operation was very extensively researched and it was Found it was not viabJ.e, that the fishing companies could buy their gear outside Canada ancl NetAJfoundland, I think Korea, and get. it much cheaper. That is why it. could n9t tAJoJ~k in this Province, and thc:tt is the reason for my question. It is obvious you did not do any research on your passing reference to gear manufacturing in this Province.

On the same page of his letter the pinE!mier says, 1 For Gaultois, perhaps 1 - perhaps - 1 some sort of value-added redfish operation might be· f1~asibie in Gaultois. 1 Was there any research done by the Provincial Government or the Economic Recove1ny Corrmriss:i.on about the possibilities of value-added redfish for Gaultois? L7 May 'I, :1,990 Vo1 XLI MR. SPEAI<FR: The hon . l:.he p,~orn-Ler. PREMIEI~ WELLS: Min. SpE!akE!I~, 1E!t rne f'.i.t"St J"(!~;poncl to the commE!nt. the hon. M~~rnb1:!r made about fishing ~JE!ar'.

We arE! not prepared to sit back and do nothing merely because thE• ·foriTIE!r Government was incompetent to do anything itse1f. We aJ~E! qo'.i.ng to do something for this Province. WE! arE! not just go'.i.ng to accr=.!pl: this automatic failure - the fail.uJ~E:'S of LhE! fot"lrl~'!l~ Govet"nrnent. We tAJi]_]. ciE:!V~:!lop our· own proposals and assC::!SS th~'·JTJ, and put alternative employment opportunities in place. Now, in tE!riTJs of Lh !O! I"E:!clf-ish, M;··.

Speaker, t.ue met IAJi.Lh the coJTlrn'.itl:.l~t:! of Fishermen and peop1e from Gaultois to look at the possibility of expanding and putting in place an independent redfish operation in G~ultois, because they are experienced and very capable in that area.

And working 1 lAiil:.h the Pt ~o v :incLa1 Government and with the Federa1 Government, and with the people concerned '.i.n GauJtois, and, incidental1y, with Fishery Products International - we have also had cliscusstons tAJ:i.lJ1 th~"'n with rE~SpE~ct to the rnattE!I" ·-· 1 arn confident there ts a reasonable opportunity of developinq such a redfish operation in Gaultois. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank. MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, I wou1cl just J.ike to say to the Prerniel" that.

Lhe only specifics this Province has put fortAJard which is anytAJhere closE!ly geographica11y nd.ated to Gr·ancl Bank, has be1~11 the proposal Fot' a Burin Peninsula heritaqe village, IAJhii:h is a proposal thaL has bec;n No. 28 (Afl:.E!Y'noon) WI

in the works for years by the Ci"E!ateJ" LarnalinE! Al"E!a DeuE.JopiTIE!nt Association. I wonder how many fish plant ~orkers from Grand Bank will be working there. And the closest thing to thE! Gaultois situation specifically proposed is the granite i ncl u·s try development in Bay D'Espoir, put forth by Mount Peyton Granite Company. I wonder how many people in Gaultois. displaced from thE! fish plant, will be working there? These are the specifics. Mr.

Speaker. which have been put fonuard by this GoveJ"nmE!nt to o·ttatAJa. and most of them have beE!n plucked fl"Orn pi"oposals which haVE! been f]oating aJ"ound this Province for years from development associations. Now,· I would like to ask the Premier will he now reconsider community specific assistance of $110 million, which he told the people of this Province, and he has said aqain today. hE! was lAd11ing to put inl:o a packa~~l~ with the Federal Government? Will he now make a commitment to this House to be cornrnunity specific for t:hos1':! communities which are bEdng negatively affected by the fishery? MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier. PREMIER WELLS: Let me again address the other misstatement the han. Mc:~mber made IAlhE!n hE! said the only thing mentioned for Gaultois was some granite operation, and the only thing mentioned for Grand Bank was the historical - MR. MATTHEWS : Skiing. Skiing at the White Hills, was the other one. PREMIER WEI LS: That is not exactly, accUJ"atE!, Ml" . L8 May '7, 1990 Vol XLI Speaker. We did mention fishing speci ficall y equipme nt manufacturing . . SOME HON. MEMBERS : For example. PREMIER WELLS: We did mention fishery equipment. We have mentioned other things.

We have rnc:~ntion(:~d. for (:;!Xampl(':!. a duty freE! zone would opE•ra te VE!I"Y well in Grand Bank. in the wholE! southern Burin Peninsula area ir the Federal Government - AN HON. MEMBFR : (Inaudible) in there sure . pREMIER WELLS: No, i.l~. :is not . not in that. rhe who le world 1s MR. MATTHEWS : It is not in your proposal . PREMIER WELLS: The duty Free zones are in the proposal. I MR. MATTHEWS: It is not. I cannot find it . PREMIER WELLS: Well, I can find it. It is there . SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAI<Fr< : Order. please! 0J"cler. p1oase! PREMIER WELLS: They are in the proposal. AN HON.

MEMBER: Tell us the page. PI~EMIEr< WELL~): I lAJi11 find it .. :r do not. rE!ITJeJnb(3J" thE! paqe off .hand, buL 1 IAJ:i.JJ . find .it' No. 28 (Afternoon) R8

M1~. ~)pE!akr::•l", thel"E! 1.uas also l::he ~~~~elfish opE!I~ation Fo1~ Gaultois, so the hon. ME!mbel" is tota11y lAJI"ong when he makes the statement he dOE:1S. NotAJ, the otl·w1n qU(!Stion hE! as ked was would the Provincial Government assign specific sums of dollars to the communities concerned. No, Ml". Speaker, WE! lAiill not be irresponsib1e the way the Federal Government has been, and just throw dollars at people and walk away from lnesponsibiJ.ity and continue the ·failures of the past. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) only money.

PREMIER WELlS: That has been a spec:i.Ftc exarnpJ.e of thE! fclilures of the past. Buchans is a cJ.assic E!XampJ.E!. They threw dollars at it. When it came to putting the prison in Buchans, which they shouJ.cl have done, they backed clown and the FoJ"mE!r Govenll'nE!nt let th1:~m do it. We al"E! go:i.ng to do tAJhat :i.s riqht when the time comes, and we are going to develop alternative f~conornic opportunities even, Mr. Speakr::!l", w:i.thout thE! hE:!J.p, and even in the face of the efforts oF the FeciE!l"al GoVE!l"nrnent, if lAJE! haVE! t:o. MR. POWER : Mr . Speaker . MR.

SPEAKER : The han. the Mc:Hnbeln for Ferryland . MR. POWER: Mr. Speaker, we only have seven or eight minutes 1E!ft and I lAJant t:o get some answers from the Minister of Fisher:i.es, and probably from the Premier, about the situat:i.on as it relates to the Fermeuse fish p1i.1nt . As many pE!I"SOnS k nOlAJ in this L9 May 7, 1990 Vol XLI Hot.1se, and cel~tain] y t.hE'' M:i.nist.E>I" of Fisheries knows, in 1955 a plant was put in place in FE!rrneuse; it: has beE!I'l thc:•r'E:! for thirty-five years.

For thirty-four years it had the support, not only of the local people, but of the Governments of Newfoundland and Labrador, Smallwood's, Moores' and Peckford's Government. In the thirty ·-fifth year, we cannot: ~Jet: any support for that plant from this present Government. Everytime we have come to this Government to ask for assistance for FE!I"rneusr::!, il:. has been no, no, and rno1ne nos.

I lAJant to ask the MinistE•l" of FishE!I"iC:'S oi.s r~:!l"rneuse t.o be,, one of' the Fil"st or l:.he excess capacity plants he keeps talking about, and Lhe Pl"C~rnilc!r keeps saying about 'we have too many fisher·rnen, ·too 1nanv pJ.ants, too many plant lAJOI"kers', ts Fermeuse going to bE! the ·first of the pJ.ants to be a11otAJE:!d t:o cite? Is thel"E:' a fut.urE! fo1~ l:.he p1':!opl1:! of FE!l"ITleUSE! tAJho ar·e in t.h:i s ga~Llery, and alonq t.h<:~t end or-- our shOI"~:·, in thE! f-.ishel"lf, 01~ clo lAJf:' have to wait to diversiFy the E!

C 0 1'1 0 1TI y , 0 l" f 0 l~ t h l:' p (' 0 p J. f' t. 0 I'll 0 V I''' atAJay? Is t-:1'11o!I"U a Ful.:UI"e l' oJ" l..he peop1E! of FE!l"rneusE!, i.n F:el"llleusE:' jn the fishery? SOME l-ION. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPFAKER : The hon. the Minister of Fisheries . MR. W. CARTER: I would be inclined to answer with a no and a yes, but I unclt':'I"S l:.and there are people in the gallury fl"OTTl r--elnrTIE!USe. I rnet IAJ"j t~h thenl during l:.he lunch br·eak, and I expJ.ainc:'d l":o l:.he pE!Op] e l::h1:!n, as I lAJi.] 1 expla:in l:.o the hon.

Mt:'lnber nolAJ, that he rnenl~:i.on(:!cl l~he shol"l:". hi.stOI"Y of t.he plant:., I bE~Jieve he No. 28 (AftE>I"noon) [~9

said the twenty -fifth year . AN HON. MEMBER : The thirty-fifth year . MR. W. CARTER: The thirty-fifth year. Let me remind him that on the thirty-fourth year that plant, Universal Seafoods or whatever they were called, went into receivership. It was put there, Mr. Speaker, not by this Government, but by the Canadian Saltfish Coq>ol~ation, and that: is where they are. now. I explained to the people from Fermeuse, and I think they unciE!rstand pretty we'll whE!rE! the f>l~ovincE! is corrdng fl~orn, that:. that plant, Mr. Spc:~aker, and the plants in Ferry1and, in St.

Mary's, Riverhead and Belleoram, are now the property of the Canadian Saltfish Corporation, by virtue of the mortgage that was on the plant held by the Canadian Saltfish Corporation. They advertisc:-d for operato1~s and, I am told, with the exception of the Fel~ry1and p1ant, thE!l~e tAJE!rE! no takers for the other plants. I understand the Canadian Sa1tfish Co1nporati .on i.s making a statE!TTH:'nt this afternoon, as a matter of fact, out1ining what has tr-anspired to elatE~ and lAJhal: they i.ntt~nd to clo in thE! futurE!. That is where it stands right now.

The Canadian SaJ. tfi s h Corporation, whose responsibility it is to Find an opE!Inatoln foln thE:' plant to deed. with the problem - rnind you, we will hE!lp, Mr. Speaker, and I have assured the people of that. The Province u.Ji11 do all it can, but they ou.m the plant, they put it into receivership. We will do what we can to help facilitate what they are trying to do. MR. RIDFOUT : That is leadership (inaudible) . LlO May 7, 1990 Vol XLI MR . W . CARTER : Better - than -you gavf :!. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Mernber for Ferryland. MR. POWER: Mr .

Spc:-aker, I want to ask a supplementary question of the Premier, but I tAJant to correct the Minister of Fishel"ies bE!forE! I do so. Before the Canadian Saltf:Lsh Corporation put Universal F i s h e r :i e s :L n t o r E! c L:' i v e r s h :L p , t·. h ''" y carnf:! to this Gove1nnn1enl:, that Minis tE!r, and that Pre1n:ie1n and asked for help but did not get it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Heal", hear! MR. POWER: We asked fotn help, and lAJe cl:i.d not. get it from thi.s Government. Now you are washing your hands and saying it is ~ Canadian Government, Canadian Saltfish Corporation's problem. It is not.

It is a Pl"ov:i.nc:ial pi~oblern, and the Provinci .a1 Covernrnon l: has a responsibility in this area. I lAJant to ask thfJ Pt"E:!rrrier', sjncc this happc:!nc:-d last . faLl, and s.incc~ this t.uoi.ntE!l~ when JL tAlent inl.cl receivership, what efforts have bE! en takE!n by this GOVE!I"nrnen t l.:o Find a new buyer, to diver-sify thP economy in Ferrneuse? Try and give rnc:' a narnl:l of onE! Covc?.r'nlnc::•nt aqE!ncy, onE! GovelnnrnE:!nt DE!pdlntlnent- WI1ich visitc':!d Fe1"rneuse, which '.is trying to set up alternate employment. Mr .

Premier, l:he reality is if this Government does not help the peop1e of Ferrneuse, you will not have to diversify the ''" c o n o rn y , b (,~ c a u s e t h e y tAJ :i 1 1 b e working in Northern Ontario or sorne place else. Now ask I ask the pcO!ople arE! here, and No. 2B ( AfLel"noon) Pl"E"In.-i eln, l:.he they i:'llne vur'y 1\10

concerned, is this Government goj_ng l:o assjsl:. thE:· Canadic.,,n Saltf:ish Coi"poration. in f'.incl'.ing a new operator for the plant in Fermeuse? Will you assist in loan guarantE!eS, if tht~Y arE! as kt~d for by a new operator? Or, are you just going to diversify the economy when the people have left Fermeuse? MR. SPEAKE!~: The han. the Premier . PI~EMIER WELLS: Ml".

SpeakE!I", I am SUJ"E! most pE!Ople in the Province understand that if a FedE!J"al GoVE!nHn(;!nt agency, Li.I<E:! the Saltfish Corporation, has a first moJ"tga~JE! foJ" $1'1· rnJ.J].ion or ~J;ls Jnillion, as thE!Y did on this plant, the Government cannot put more money in to that company, because all we are doing is paying off and supporting the Federal debt. We just cannot payoff the Feclt~ral debt. in this tAJay, .tAJhich they CJ"eatE!cl. Ml~. POWER :, You gave $14 mJ.lJion to FPI and Na banal Sea.

PI~EMIEI~ WEI LS : That is E!Xact1y tAJhal: would happE!n, it JAJould go straight to the Federal coffE!rs, and wt:.> cannot do that. We aJ"e not that irresponsible with the taxpayers' dollars. The Federal Government crE!ated th:i_ s pi"ob1E!m. We cannot bail them out. Oul" taxpayers cannot afford to bail out the mess that was created by the Federal Government in this matter. The FedE!ral GoVE!rnment put the company into receivership, and that has put them now '.into poss,:=!ss'.ion and control of the plants.

Th:is GoVE!rnrnent, as t·.he M:in:ist.er· of Fi~her'.ies has '.indicated, will he1p thE:! fish p1ant in FE•J"ITIE•us':'!, L 11 May 7, 1990 Vol XLI as '.it helps other fish plants IAJhE:!l"E! i.t j_s I"E!aSonab1E• to clo SO, and '.in most cases '.it is reasonable to do so, but tt ts utterly unr~:!asonabl1C! and would be:~ a gJ"oss waste of the taxpayE!I"S 1 doJ.] .aJ"S to put money in behind a $14- mi11:ion mortgage to the Federal Government, and we will not be that iJ"responsible. Ml".

SpE!akeJ", whenever the opportunity arises, and tAJhatE!Ver we can clo to promob=! some kind of opE!J~atot" to ope1"a l:E! the fish plant in Fermeuse, or some alternative form of employrnE!nt. fo1~ aJ"E!aS likE! Fel"l'fleu~~e not just Flo!l"mE!USe a1one, but: areas like Fermeuse - we wj]l do. Let rne J"eJn-.i.ncl thi_s House, M1··. SpeakeJ", that:_ t.:hi_s situal: .. i.on d-.icl not arise on May 5 last year, this l!..Jas the mess the FoJ"ITIE'I" CoUE!J"nmt:•nt left the Province in. Do not ever forget that! SOME HON. MEMBfRS: Heal", heal"! MR. RIDfOUT: . ( I n a U d j_ b 1 t' ) U n i u E!

I" s a 1 M L1 ] t :i. --- f o o cl s , you are s:il:t:ing on your' real". We found Piccadilly, we Found Rose Blanche, and you can find nothing. MR. SPFAKER: Oi"del", please! MR. 1-IEAI~N: Mr. SpeakE!r . Ml~. SPEAKER : ThE:~ hon. the MembE~l" For· St. Mal"Y' s ·- The Capes. MR. HEARN : Thank you, Mr. Speaker . ThE! Pl"E!ITii.eJ" E!<;tJ"J.i.eJ" sai_cl t·:hc· Fe cl E! I" a 1 Go v e r· n rn e n l:_ t h r e lAJ rn o n C! y a t the pi"E!sent PJ"ob1E!ITIS, IAJith no planning or no d'.irect'.ion, they threiAJ rnoney at Lhe coJTIIIIUn-.i.ties. No. 28 (Af'l:E!rnoon) IU :L

Perhaps he should know the COII'Irnt.trlil":ii~S tAiill hau1:' a lot oF say in houJ that money is ~1o:.i.nq to be spent to help themselves. They are not being dictated to, as thE!Y would be by the Government when they sent their wish list up to Ottawa . What was there For the Southern Avalon which would involve Ferryland, Fermeuse, Trepassey, St. Mary 1 s and Riverhead, all these areas? One project suggested a salmon enhancement program in Holyrood Pond. I ask the PrE·rrd.et~, doE:~s he think such an enhancement program would empJ.oy the pE!Ople here, and the 1nes t of the peop1e along the Southern Shore and St.

Mary 1 s Ba~? MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Premier . PREMIER WELLS: No, Mr. Speaker. We have a particular proposal in mind for TrE!passey, for example. If we can get the Feclr:•ral Government. to do what is urithin its potAJeln to do, :iF it. is dispoSE!cl l:o do, it lAJill qive Trepassey, we hope, a fairly stable future. Now, if the Federal Government will do that, and ·lAiill lAJOink ulith us, TrE•passey and the lAJho1e SouthE•Inn SholnE:' alnE!a will have some reasonably stable economic activity, and we think this is what we have to try and buiJ.d.

We cannot just dictate that thE:~Inr::~ is going to be a seudng machine facto1ny in FE!rrneuse, 01n an automobile filter factory in Trepassey, we have to work with the Federal Government to try and creatE! a situation tAJherE! this can be done in Newfoundland.

With the Federal Government running the national economy the way in which it is, focused on bui1clinc:J the l:.IAJO massive l'conomic E•ng:inE!S of CE!ntral Canada, it i.s virt.ually impossible to buiJ.d the L12 May '7, 1990 Vo1 XU e c o no rn y o f L h E· s rna J 1 E> r' p to v j n c E' <; , whe1n1~ '.i.l: . is ne1~dod, becaus l:'• l:huy hctve neVE!I n had sense enouqh Lo bH concerned on an equitable basis for the rest of the country. That is what we are trying to achieve. These things arE! not done in isolation.

You cannot wish an economic activity in a community and cause it to happE!I1, it can only be caused to happE!I1 wh E!I'l the governments which have the real abiJ.:ity to achiE:'V~~ it lAJi.Jl put tn place the kinds or :· ci.rcurn st ances that will induce it to happen. Now, we hope that: tAJi .thin the next year 0 In t:lAJO , lAJi t h 0 U r (! n-- 0 r l':. , l>.JI:• tAJ'i.11 br:! ab1e to pE•t"su ade the Fecl1:~ral Govetnnrnr:~n l:. to lAJOt~k l>l'i L.h us to CI"E!ate the l<:i .nd of econo1n.i c climate that lAJi.1l alJ.otAJ for Lh<3.t kind of development.

U nf oInt. una t e 1 y , up t i 11 n OlAl, t 1·11:' y havE• shown nothinc:J but an inclination to be very political in everything they do. MR. SPEAKER : Question. Petniod has expitnecl . Before rna vi n q on to thE! n ex l:. :l. Lorn of Oi"detns of the Day, on br: !half of hon. Members, I would like to welcome to the pubJic qa]Jeries today nineteen Level II students from Gonzaga H:i.gh Schoo1, hel"e :in St. John 1 s, accompanied by t.heir teacher Mr. Jim Power. SOME HON. MEMBERS: i=i·e·-a-r: .. : .... --·i1-e·a ·r-r ·~-· .... -................ . . Notices of Motion MR . DECKER : Mr. SpE:'aker . MR.

SPEAKER: T-:-h "E;"'""~l-()"n' "~-·-·cFi E! M :i. n j s t 1:! I" 0 f H E' a J t. h ' No . 28 (AflE!Innoon) rn2

Ml~. DECKER: Mt~. ~ipeaket", I qJve notO'i.CE! that I 1AiiJ.1 on tornortnow · ask lc::!aVe to introclt.ICE:! a BtJ.J. entitled, 11

An Act To Amend The DE!partmen t of- Hc:1alth Act. 11 MR. SPEAKER : The han. the Minister of Finance . DR. KITCHEN: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a B:i.l1 enti tJ.ed, 11

An Act To Amend The Mc:~mbers Of The House Of ASSE!Tnb1y Reti.t"ing AJ.J.owanCE!S Act, 11 11 Thc':! Pub1ic Set"vice Pensions Act 11 , and 11 ThE! Unifot"rrtE:'d S e l" vices P E! n s ions Act 11 • Orders of the Day MR. BAKER: Order 3, Mr. Speaker, Motion (Government Commit.tee). MR. SPJ:AKER: ConcurrenCE! Services Order, 3. Concurrence Matton (Government Services Committee). The hon . the Opposition House Leadet". MR. SIMMS: Thank you, Mr . Speaker .

I tAiill say a fetAl things, I guess, in the:' ten rrri.nutE!S that I have to participate in a continuous fashion on the debate of those Departments which we are dealing with: the Department of Municipa1 and Provincial Affairs and Housing; Works, Ser·vices and Transportation; Employment and Labour Re1attons; and, the Department of Finance, are the foUl" spE!Cif:ic Depal"trnents that tAle are dea1ing with in th:is particu1ar debate. L13 May 7, 1990 Vo1 XLI It. is rathel" t.itTle1y, I guess, l:.h<'ll:. we have a chance to ta1k about job Cl"c:~ation, r:'rnp1oymc~nt, and thoSE!

ITlattE•i"S, :i.n V:iE!IAl of:· IAJhat transpired here today in the Question Period, parttcularly as it applied to the situation out in the Ferryland District and the closure of the Universal Multifoods Fish Plant and so on. And, as som~':! of my col'.h~a~~u~~s raised hel"E! today in Questi.on Period, what potential those pE!OplE! lAJho wi.J.J b~~ cl'ispJ.acE!CI, Ol" aJ"e disp1aced at. the ITlOin~:!nt because of the situation IAJhat prOIJrdlnS, IAJhat occurring, ideas, does in terms of opportunities this Government have oFf' l'! l" in g cc' rn p 1 o y 1n co! n t. for a11 those peop1e?

We:~ clc':!arly saw, of course, in Lhe responses given today by the Premier, and by the Mini.st:.(::!l" oF Fisheries, that very little promise, very little hope is he1cl out fOl" aJ.:J. thOSE! PN>p1E•, as IAJE<lJ. as aJ.l the o t:hE!I" unernployc:.•d pc::>ople around this Province. NotAl, parti.cu1a1"1y, lAte knot~.J tAJhdt ts happNling lAd.th l"espc':!ct to th1;! f'.ishel":i.(:'!S. The Pl"ovo:incE• ::Lt~:;e]f' has no program. It appears the Prov:ince does not intend to develop any kind of program of its own. They intend to spend aJ.J their time, I guess, at.tackinq the:!

Federal Government For not providing enough Funding, Ol" not providing enough f'undtng in t he right places, and that kind of thing. It ts obvious that is what the Government intends to spend the next two or three years doing, attacking the Federal Government, or, Mr. Speaker, bJ.aming the previous P.C. Administration for a 11 it 1 s lAJO e s . Yet, at the they have opportunity, same time, even though been given ample the Government has No. 28 (A F t.lc'l"noon) I~ 1 3

decided it is not prepared to indicate pu.b1:ic1y lAJhal:. it intE!nds to do, as the GoVE!rnmE!nt. And, need I remind them, this GovernrnE!nt is thE! GoVE!l~nmt:'nt that is closest to the people. This Government is thr:~ Government that is responsible for all the social repercussions that will transpire as a consequence of the Government 1 s inaction in trying to deal with the fishery problems. So, we know what they are going to do with rE!SpE!Ct to responding to the fishery crisis we have; the answe1n is, nothinq. They clo not in l:!:!ncl t:o do a thing. They do not intend to Jift a fi.ngE!r.

ThE!Y do not int:encl, i.l:. appoars, to develop E!VE!rl a plnO~JI"alTl of thEd.r OlAJn, E!VE!n though they have been given all kinds of opportunities. No, Mr. Speaker, they intend to spend their time, as I said, criticizing the Federal Government, ·attacking the former P.C. Administration provincially, blaming everything on thE:!m, but, of cou1nse, when thE•y are giVE!n the:' opportunity to te11 us u..Jhat they alnE! going to do to respond, the answer is nothing, ina c U.o n.

That is similar to the sit.uation 'tJJith respect to tl1e Department of Employment and Labour Relations, which Department we are assessing here under this Concurrence Debate. The job creal:ion program that the new Liberal Administration brought in, the job creation program they brought in eventually, because for the first several months they had nothing in place . They cancelled the previous program and said, 1 WE! are going to brtng .in this great new idea, this gr·eal: nE!lAJ plan. 1 What:. did they bring in, Mr. Speaker?

They brought in a so-called Employrnent GenE•lnation Pr·o~~rarn that may have Cl"E!a't.E!cl 1)00 jobs, I clln 1_14 . May 7, 1990 Vol XLI not even sure what: the numbers are. The Minister may participate in the debate sometime later on this morning and she can colnrn(:!nt. I n F a c t , I lAd. 11 a ~; k h e l" d .i. r E! c l: l y if she can give us an update . WhE!n the MinistE!r is li.stE!ning, I ask her to participate in the debate later on this afternoon after some of my colleagues haVE! put some questions to hE!r.

Mi;\ybe, if the Minister of Social Services can stop wallowing, I can gE!t my question through to the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations. I would li.ke her to give us an updal:e on the job Cln!O!ati.on plnograrn. rh~:~ last numbers I saw were, I believe, something like 500 jobs created. Obvious1y sh1:! is au..Jal"e of sorne of· 7 the problems with that program, and I say this, not. in a partisan way. SOME HON. MEMBERS: No! MR. SIMMS : N o , I c:tlTI n o t. a p a 1n t '1 s a n individual, the Minister knows that:.

In my clualinqs lAi:.il.h he!", l have a1ways been straightforward and upflnont lJJil:h hel". But in Lhe Job Creation Pro~~ram, th1:! Emp1oyment Creation Program, For example, thE!re is a requir·e1nent that the positi.ons must stay in place For· six t y mo n l~ h s , .I I::H=! 1 i (! v e it is, a fu11 year . AN HON. MEMBER: Sixty weeks. MR . SIMMS: Sixty weeks rathE•ln, I arn SOl"lny, a fu11 y':'ar. I know, for· exarnplE!, l:.haL peopl1 :! in the tourism industry, the service industry, haue had difficulties meeting that No. 28 (AFttO!rnoon) 1n1~ •

requirement For obvious reasons, because quite Frequently in the tourism industry a lot of the businesses and operations are seasonaJ. in nature, not by choiCE!, but by fact, I guess. There is really no choice at all. In addition to that. of course, you have people in the construction industry, and everybody in this ProvinCE! knows that fo1n a construction company to work continuously for tlAJE:~lvE!. months is an impossibility. It cannot be done because of the weather situation and the seasonal situation.

So those businesses though are quite prepared and quite interested to participate in the Employment GE!neration P1nog1nam, p1nepared to put up thEdr sha1ne of the funding required to c1neate a job, a full timE! job, but it is a seasonal job. Th<:'re is not much thE!Y can do about that. But the p1nogram requirernE!nts J"estl"ic t the:~m from even participating in th~ program.

And I know people:~ in l:he construction industi"Y who sa'.id, 1 I would be:~ happy l:o create:~ another job and ernpJ.oy a no thr:~l" inclivicluaJ, but I can only do it For ten months of the year because you cannot do construction work in the IAlintel" and so on. But I cannot access funding under the pi"Ograrn. 1 So thE•I"e is a problE!rn fi"Orn that perspective ancl the same thing with the tourism sector. You know, obviously a 1ot of the tourism industries are SE!asona1 as !;,Jell in nature. So they cannot meE!t Lhat requirE!ITIE!nt of having to employ somebody for a full twelve months. It is not possib1e.

So why should they be discriminated against l~hE!n. ancl no l~ br'! a11oi;,Jed to participate in the program? the M'.inis l:E!l~ o·f So I hope Employment and l ... abouJ~ Re1at:i.ons is LlS May '7. 1990 Vol XLI aware of that prob1em and hope~fuJ.1y IAJ:i.ll be I~E!ViE!IAiii'"J(~ it:. :Ln ttrn<:! fo1" theiJ" pi"O~JI~anl next YE!dl". And I IAJou1d 1ike l:o lwar IJ.Jhat she has to say about that and is she, in fact, reconsidel"ing that: aspect of the program? Because I am sure she realizes there cou1d be even more jobs.

NotAl mind you .in oJ~der for those jobs to be developed and created, those additional jobs, there would have to be more money. And thr:! pl"obJ.E!ITl I uncler·stand now, is t:hal: eve"!n though onJy onE! month of Lhe fiscal year has passed they had no nE!IAJ mont;•y. No monE!Y ava:iJabJ .r::· r:ol" ful"t:.he:11" Job Ci"eation Progra1ns. 3o thel"efor·e. Ml". SpE!akeJ". you aJ"(! a1rnost looking at an irnpossib".i1ity, a Catch 22, ~~o t.o speak. NolA!, Mr. Speaker, l~.o get back t.o what I indicated at the beginning.

After IJ.Jhat !AlE! saw today in Question Period it became 0e~y evident that Lhe Government is just not:. pi"E!pal~ecl Lo f'ocliS jn on thE! rnajo1" econo1n-Lc situation that IAIE' face :i.n OUI" f>I"OV-.i.ncr::• today, that of providinq i:'llteJ"nal:e employment, jobs for people who are normal1y affected because or seasonality of industries or aFfected because they cannot F.ind the job opportunities .

But on top o·F a1l oF that you have t:.he fishery crisis and you have thousands of Newfoundlanders in th'.is Province today whose very heritage is crumbling, for thousands and thousands a L1my of' life for a1l of those peop1e "in those rural comrnun:itiC:'!S -.is faJ.J-.inq apart; and this Government continues to stt on its hands, continues Lo blame everyt:hing on the Federal authorities or Lhe prev'.ious Provincial Govel"nrnen'l:, as oppoSE!d to t.akinq up Lh,:! cha11enqe and tl"yinq t.o do sorne:•thinq to address those prob1ems and those No. 28 (AfteJ"noon) rnr:)

concerns and something for going to be this serious face. trying to the people who dearly affected situation which do are by tAle And if a Government ever can win a re--election - I say to my friends opposite, I am goingt to give them some free advise - if a Government can win re-election, because GovernmE!nts lose elections, let us not forget that. That. is a well knotJ.Jn po1Jtical theory that I think is accepted by everybody. But this GovernrrtE!nt has a chanCE! to be re-elected, I think. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hf~ar, hea1n! MR.

SIMMS: I think it has a chance, but only if i·t fulfills its comrnitrn,?.nt to the people on economic prosperity and viabi1ity, and that is where, I think, this Government is desperately lacking in leadership. They are not doing anything ~ith respect to the economy, very little . And their Economic DivE:~rsification Programs: IAJe arE! not farnoi.lia1n tAli .th. We knotJ.J nothing about it. I saw t:hE! J.atest polis. Han . Members should have a 1ook a·t the poJ.J . out in Windsor - Buchans that tAle did recently, by the way.

We hE!arcl the PlnE•rnier 1 s cornmE•nts on a pol1 that Professor Mark Graesser did in St. John's. Professor Mark Graesser did a poll in St. John's, according to the Premier last IAJeekend. The question was, is the Government doing a good job? Yes. Is the Governrrwnt doing a fa:ir job? · Yr::>s . Is the Government doin~~ a poor job? YE!S. What kincl of a poll is ·that, Mr. SpeakE!r? I would like to see something a little more comprehensive, like, L1.6 May 7, 1990 VoJ. XLI will you vote for this Government? That is the key question. We would like to see 'it. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. SIMMS: So have we, Mr.

Speaker. I tel1 the Government House Leader that he might suggest to the Premier that he do a po11 in his own District of Bay oF Islands, by the lAIC\Y. PREMIER WELLS : And Grand Falls . MR. SIMMS: You are welcome to clo one in Grand Falls. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SIMMS: Well, I tE!ll you, Min. Speakeln, i.F Members opposi .b::- l:hink, if I J"Un a g a ·j_ n , i f t: h E! y 'L h i n k 1 lAI.i ] 1 h d V E! diFficulty winning Grc:tnd Falls District, it is going to take everybody over on that sicle to come out thE~l"E• to 1nakP suJ"c:~ I do not do it. MR. SPEAKER: Order, plr::,ase! The hon.

Member's time is up . MR. SIMMS: Okay, Mr. SpE:~akE!r . 1 tAr.ill back at it again. We tAli.ll lots of time, Mr . Speaker . MR. SPEAKER: ~~ e t: have The hon. the Member for St. Mary's -The Capes. MR . HEARN : Thank you, Mr. SpeakE!r. It . shoJJ.Js the i.nt.E!Inesl: l:h,;ll:: Me1nb~'!I"S No. 28 (After'noon) J\ 16

opposite have in current events tJJhen thE:!y faJ1 to qet~ up to ta1k on practically anything, because uncle1n the hE!aclinqs Lue alnE! talkin~1 about all Government agencies. At least they could get up and explain some of the good things they tell us they are doing. It is too bad that the Minister of Transportation, or Government Services, is not in his seat, as he might IAJant to get up and talk about the Education Budget. I heard him on 1nadto twice onE! clay the uJeek. and that is tulice as often as I haVE! heatnd him sincE• he was on promisinq to abo1ish school taxes during the last election.

The Member uJas complaining because down in the town of Burgee the school tAJas losing some funding and he thought it was unfair. Just because boards, he said, do not have money enough, and have to tighten their budget, he did not seem to understand why his school, or his town. should be affected. Basically, tJJhat hE! IAJas doing, not realizing it, oF course, not being the brightE!St, he tJJas ·criticizing the Minister of Finance for axing the Budget to primary. eJ.ementa1ny. and secondary schools.

When you have your OIAJrl Minister. a Minister in your own Government, publicly on radio, crit:icizing an education budget, publicly criticizing the budget the Department of Education gave to schools. then. I think. we have real. real concerns. You would expect us to say that - but a Minister? However, perhaps today we should talk about the fishing crisis, because of the concerns expressed here by residents from along the Southern Shore Fc:~rryland District ·- just one group of many who are extremely c o n c e r ned I Alit h w h a t i s hap p e n i n g .

One of the areas that previous Administrations always zeroed in Ll7 May 7, 1990 Vo1 XLI on IJJas that oF the fishc:•tny, i?.nd the one thin~~ that fol"riiE:!I" govc:~rnrnE!nts tlnic?cl to do IAJi:,,S. IAJhc :!n PI"Ob1E•ITlS alnOSE!, was to ITIOVE! j_n to try and do sorneth·.inq about it before it became widespread or got out of hand. Over t.he last few months we have seen a number of areas threatened with dire problems in thE! fishery, with plant closures, lack of resource, etc.

Lack of resource:!, no one can do too much about, but certainly they can do something about helping companies keep alive clul"ing thE• dot.~Jntirne, because IAJ·:.it .h proper planning uJe can rnakc::o SIH'C! that in a fc?W yE!ars t:Ln1e thinqs will turn around and pr:•op1t:! 1~1ho work in our fish plants can be back working the1ne aqain. llul:., if" we Jet these areas dJe - two, three, or five years clown the road, thE!I"e IAJi11 be nobody lE!fl: t:o tJJork in the plants, and thE!re IJJi11 b(:' no pJ.an ·ts tJJor·thwht1e ~Jo~-.Lng :i.n to process product, so c o n s e q u e n t 1 y . n o IAJ i s t h e t t rn e IAJ h e n governments must. t.ab" a st.ancl.

I saw the Federal Government today come out with a package which. thought it may not be pE!r' fect , at least is directed in the right direction. It ts specifically directed towards the areas that arE! affec 'l:.E!d. If thE'! Ptnern-:ir::•l" wou1d concentrate his efForts on that, and if he would 1isten to the people From -the areas IAJho suggest CE!r'tain thtngs can be done, instead of dreaming up possibilities - most of which have been analyzed in the past and rejectE!d -.. and SE!nding a Joi.st up to OttatJJa, as you send to Santa C:l.ause just.: befolnE!

Chtnistrnas, and e x p e c t t h c~ F c? d e 1n a 1 Co v c:• r rll'n c:• n l:. l: o say yes. Ml". Pt"E!rnir::!l", IAJE:! IJJ:i] J. qo along IAJith ,YOU and giVE! you ITIOI'H~Y to do thJng~ wh:i.ch are not practical or possib1e and whtch uJi .11 have no benPfit to thP pE!opJ.E! who are directly affected. No. 28 (AFter'noon) I~ 17

Maybe if he were realistic and iclenU.f'iE!d PI"OjE~CtS, espE!ciaJJy in the area of' the fisheries, in thE!SE! ar'E!ClS tAJhE!J"E:~ Uw pE!Op1e have grolAJn up with thE! Fisheries, who want to stay in fishery related projects, and who can, tJJith some proper planning and direction. So, maybe tJJe lAlill go back to the drawing board and come up with some ideas. The Premier did mention one inteJ"E!Sti.ng thin~1: that he had in mind, and I hope he is listE!ning, some specific projPcts for specific areas.

Let me say to him, that in thE! announcE·rnent today, thE!J"f::! is money allocatr:'d to the various towns, and they in turn tAri.ll hav~~ a fair amount of say in hotJJ that money is spent . Instead of being told you are going to have a bubble gum factory, as the present Administration across would tell them, they have been given fJ.exibili.ty ovet" using the rnonE!Y, through the various communities and p1anning a~JE!nCiE!S. ThE!Y haVE! their destiny in their own hands.

If the PrerniE·r has some lAJeird and wonderful idea that might be practical in somE• of th1:=! areas, tAJhE!ther il:. is fisher .v rE!lated or not, JAJe are not naive enough to think that in the present circumstances everyone who is working in the fishery can continue to work thet"e. Some people are willing to move outside to be retrained, some want to. If they get some assistance they certainly will take advantage of that .

SomE! are in a posiU.on to retire, and with the retirement progr'arns ofFet~E!d, and I notice thal the Government opposite has been invited to participate in these pro~~r'cHns and I hope that it tAJi11, a nurnbE!r of p~~oplE! can go on to early retirement, leaving the Ll8 May 7, 1990 Vol XLI f'1?W jobs that tAJi11 b:? lc "fl: . l:.o the people who have no ol:.her choice except stay in these areas, un1ess, of coul"SE!, t:h~:!y lAJant. La pack up and h1?a d For Onl:.at"io, which thE!\/ do not . For the pE!Ople who want to stay there will be jobs enough left for them.

So if we can come up with some ideas that are practical thE!1'1 the money is there. The money has been provided by Ll1e FE!ds, not to do what the Premier clictat.:ed should be clone, things l:.hat . tAJt::•J~(:! :i.rnpt~acticaJ, impossiblE!, and not. related at al1 to the areas i.nvo1VE!d, but: i.f Lhe Prem .iet" has SOITIE! specific :id!?C\ l'.hi.'tt :. dOC'S J"e1atE! to t.:hE• at"eas concr:=!t "n Lhen, undoubtedly, the ar·~~as l~J "i.lJ look at it . Certainly, OUl" ar'ea wi 1] look at implementing any plan that is of benefit to that area oF concern. If hE! has the ideas, tAle wi.ll have the money.

It should be the other way around perhaps - but it is not . In relation to the fisheries. C1:=!rt.ainly, I do not:. lAJanl':. [··o stick strictly 1oca11y because t.hC !I"E:• aJ"('! all kinds oF concern s wh ich are n o t b e j_ n ~J a cl ci J" e s s e cl , JTJ o s !.. o f lA I h j c h can come under the jurisdiction of thE! f>I"OvinciaJ Govel"nrnc::~nt.

We see areas such as Belleoram, Riverhead, smaller areas such as F e r r y 1 a n d t h a t a r e e F F !'::' c l:. e d , tAli. t h no at t:E!nti .on beJng patr:l to l:hern at all by the Premier or by the Min:ister of FishE!l~j .es . lhE:!Y havE:! not gone to the areas. T'hey have not shown any Jeadersh:ip. They have not loob.>d at other· possibilities, other posstble operators, there has been no oncot.JJ~a~~ernont. In fact:, Lher'e has been just a tol:.al lack of' encouragE!HlE!nt. We can Fishing No. 28 look at places such as dis tt"i.c ts . WE:' soi'nE ! l:.:itll E:'S (Aft:.E!J"noon) 1\ 1 B

FOI"~~~~t lAJhet"e placE•s L\JE! have 1 i k l:! had Eagle River, all kinds of Fisheries problems the past Few yea1"s, many of U.J~r:i.ch could be solved by some co-ordination by the Provincial Government. One of the problems down there is the OVE!rsupply of fish at times, and the over number of people who rush into the area. The numbers of fishermen who rush into specific areas along the coast and threaten the livelihood of the local people. Then we have large amounts of fish being caught and the co-ordination of getting it to rna1"ket certainly has not been the best.

We have three or four boats now owned by the Provincial Government, tied up, not doing anything. Boats that could be off fishing in 2G and 2H - MR. SPEAKER: ·-·-··----- ·---·-----·· ···-·- Ord~~r 1 please! The hon. Member's time has elapsed . MR. HEARN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was just giving them a Few ideas of how to turn around the fishery, but there will be another chance. MR. SPfAKER: ThE• hon. the ME!rnber for" Sl:. John's East Extern. MR. PARSONS: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Speaker, it is always a pleasUl"e l:o rise in youl" place c:l.ncl speak on some things that are impol"l:ant to l:h:i.s Pl"OVince of ours. and Fr"iday I had a FetAl tAJords on what I though were important issues. Soi'flE' of l:he issues, Mr. Speakr::!r', wr::!r'E' c1osE• t.o horne as tt PE'I"tainE!cl to <:o\malgamation, as it L19 May '7. 1990 Vol XLI pertained to some of the cl t s c 1" E:! p a n c :i. E! s l: h a t I r: ".i. n d t. h ·.l ~; GovernrnE!nl:. has p1:!r'p1:!tl"al:.ed aqainsl: certain areas. Areas like rny own. St. John's East. Exter'n.

I say l:.o the Members across the way, especially the Minister of Transportation who is in hts SE!at: right now, that the monies we received frorn his DepartmE!nt this year, as it pertains to transportation and the needs of the area. none of th~;;~rn have b~:!en acldrE:'ssecl t.~J:ith the exception of, I think. ttAJO progl"arns that lAJ'''''"e ongo:i.ng. Thel"E! are no rnon.ir:!~; allocated For that area., I want to remind the Minister that tourism is not far away places. We haVE! ·tour:i.st ar··eas closE:! to ::it. John's. irnportan t areas.

We hav1:! right clown the scenic Marine Drive, tAle have right clotAJn Fal"Lh0'r north to Cape St. Francis. We have areas of tourist atl:rac t.ions in that whole area. You go to Baulin1?., 11 • .Jhat ITIOI"e scenic, whal:. a cl :i. f f E! r E! n C E! 0 f 0 n E! C 0 ITI 1'1 l U n j l.. y lJ.I j L h the other, Mr. Speaker. EspE!cia11y tn the sunlrnel"'l':.irne, thE!re ai"E• so rnany places l.·.o <JO, so many thinqs to clo. !JuL. Mr'. Speaker, our roads are l n cliSl"E!pail". AJ.J. 1 can qet. r·l"Oin l. he hon. Minister is. 'you knotAJ, look what you have clone fol" th~:! las L seventeen years.' AN HON.

MEMBER : That is right . MR. PAf~SONS: Look what you got for the last seventE!en years. We gol: very J.itt.lE!, Ml". SpeakE!l". ThE! hon. thE'' Minister of Social Ser·vic,:•s. he i.s sm:i.J.:i.ng lAJhen he says that, he knows what I arn saying is the truth, that we did not. receive only our just reward in those sixtE!E!n year's Ol" sevE•nl.E!('!n yeal"S. And the Minister of Transportat.ion . No. 28 (AFternoon) Rl9

should look notJJ at tourism, should look at the needs of Lhe people in that particular area and authorize his Depal~trnent to spend sorne money, to fix up the pot holes, to fix up the breaks that are in the pavement at this particular time, to look down on Pouch Cove Road on the way to Cape St. Francis and see it within his heart to say people should not be subj ectecl to ·that. How can we expect tourists to trav e 1 those highways so close to St. John's? LE!t us say a boat cernes in here tomorrow which comes in regularly, Mr. Sp,:>.aker, every summer, and they tJJant to go some pJ.acr:~ fo1~ a half hour.

They cannot go to Te1n1na Nova Par'k, thE!Y cannot go to even Gushue's Park. But, Mr. Speaker. you can certainJ.y take them on a bus ridE! or a rid'~ by car, taxi or whatever to areas J.ike Pouch Cove, Flatrock, Bauline. Outer Cove, Middle Cover. 'u)gy Bay, any of those areas. Mr. Speakel~. But people are lnE<"luctani:. to ~~o thE•Ine now b1~ causE! the roads are in such dire need. Mr. Speaker, tJJe did some work on SOlliE:! of the 1noacls clotAJn thr::•re, and I though ped1aps. hopefully we could see some WOI"k onqoing this year. But the Minister of - I called him once the anti St.

John's Minister- finds it tAiithin his heart that we do not get a cent. I don't think tAle got a nickel down thE!re this YE!ar, Ml". Speaker. Again, only a couple of programs: one in Middle Cove. Ou l:e1" Cove and Loqy Bay that was ongoing, and the other is a few roads in Pouch Cove. that again was ongoing, Mr. Speaker. I would like to qo back, Mr. Speaker, to the Minister of Transportation again. I hope, for the life of me, Mr. Speaker, - I L20 May 7, 1990 Vol XLI said I hope. and I hopE• that he changes hts rn:l.nci.

I hopE! he ~JE!ls some sense pumped into him by someone over there on the other side, to come up with an announcement as it pertains to the outer ring road, Mr. SpeakE!r. I mean thE! OUlE!In Y'ing lnOad, lAJhE:d:hE!In we like it or not, tJJe can say the money should be spent in other areas: and I know there are other areas that have grave concerns, Mr. Speaker. But also, and I havE:• rnE:!nt.i.onecl it~ over and over and oue1n, tiH! Eas tE!lnn Avalon has , one Udr'd of' the population of Newfoundland and l ... ab1naclo1n.

So ac'Lua11y, j F you put your dollars in their true perspective on a per capita basis, then Mr . Speaker. they tJJou1cl qet onE! thi1nd of thr:~ rnord.es that ar'e being spent by Transportation. Min. Speaker, thE!Y ai"E! not ~Jet Ling one-fiftieth of it because of this Minister. And I would like to remind t.he Minister also, thaL Lh1:?. rn o n i E! s i n t. hE! R a i. ] A q r' e ernE:! n L t>.J e 1n e there Fo1n t.hE! Oul:.eln Ring l~oad and it. is on]y bE!Ci'l.USE! of' sorne left tAJingei"S ··- AN HON. MEMBER : Right wingers. MR. PARSONS: Left wingers . AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) . MR.

PARSONS : I do not know . Are tAJingers? AN HON. MEMBER: They are wingers anyway . MR. PARSONS: they right They are wingers for outer ringers . SOME HON. MEMBERS : "No. 2 8 ( Afte1nnoon) 1~20

011, oh! MR. R. AYLWARD : You aJnE! right, the University c r·owcl . MR. PARSONS: Well the University people, including professors. They are left tAJing, and those are the people, I have met tAli th. Almighty, Mr. Speaker, My God their rationale is unbelievable. Mr. Sp1':!aker, it t.uas only becaUSl':! the past Government, when Pippy Park came into being, the land that lAJaS knolAm as Pippy Pa1nk, that road would have just. touci·H~d the eci~JE:~ of it as it. IAJNl'l: along.

But because this GoVE!rnrm:!nt foresatAJ g 1n E! at t hi n g s for Pi p p y Par k Lui t h this new road goin~~ in, they took in, they amalgamated a great piece of land next to Pippy Park. Now what the left wingE!rS are saying, here comes the road, rigJht throu<.;Jh thE! rnidcl1e of Pippy Pa1nk. It was not through the middle of Pippy Park. It was only because of what the GOVE!rnment acqui1n1;:!d that rnade that road thlnough Pippy Park. NolAJ t.ue know, Mr.

SpE~akE!r, ev,~n in the parks we see here in Newfoundland, the parks that we see on the mainland, that a road does not necessarily take anything away from a park. DR. KITCHEN: Right clown through the middlE! of Flatrock. MR. PARSONS : You could not put it in a better place. I must say to the hon. Minister of FinanCE!, you coul.d not put a big road through a better place.

You a1ne onE! of the orws, I rE:~rnincl the hon. · Minister, you a1ne one of the ones who is reported to be adamantly against the Outer Rinq Road, and I hope one of !:hose L21 May 7, 1990 Vol XLI clays you a1nE! qoin~J to c~et: up :in your place and you are <.:JOinq to either say, the Me mber for St. John's East: ExteJ"n is t"ighl: 01n he is lAJrong. But thE! poj nt r'E!Hkd ns you are one of the people out therE:~, you are in cahoots tAdt.h thE· old anti-Minister of St. John's; anything that happens in St. John's, he is against it. AN HON. MEMBER : (Inauclib]e) . MR. PARSONS : Yes, you talk about anti.

You havE~ an anti-St. John'~~ M1~1 11 b1;:!r ove1" thE!l"E!. l-IE! is alrnost qet.ti.ngJ you i.n line. But, Mr. Sp10akc'r, I hope t.ha l: !:hE• M i n ·i s t e r of De v e 1 o p n 1 e n L IAJ :i. ·1 J. announce the Oute1n rhnq l~oad. I rnean, Ml". SpeakE!!", it is l'lE!CBSSiH'Y to relieve a situation tha t is happening not.u on Pt"incr::• PhiJ .ip PalnktAJay. And aftl:!r he conc1:!des to bringinq !':his about:, MJ·'. Spe<:tket", l:hen t.J..Je a1nE! goinq to have Lo look at t:hE:! To1nbay bypass J"Oad, t1.Jhi.ch is also in l:he cards, Mr. ~3pE!akE!I".

T'hE!lnE! has be~;;•n Janci being acquiJ"ed in ToJ"bay Fur' a nurnbeJ" of yeaJ"S 'l o fac:iljLaL~? l:.hjs road. But. unt.i1 t:he Oul:eJ" r~inq Road is-· lAJE~J.J at J,:~ast sl:aJ"tE!cl ··­ then we cannot do any thoinq about the Torbay bypass road. Mr. Speaker, I can see the Minister of Development yawning. I knot.u i ·t rnust bE:~ pr~?tty l:.iJ"escHnl:> on hirn ovE:~r there sit:tingJ in his place. AN HON. MEMBER: The Minister of Transportat i on . MR. PAr~SONS: Oh, the Minister of Tr·anspoJntati.on, I arn SOI"I"Y . l will t ake that back . No. 28 (Afternoon) I~ 21

I rne<Hl that is onE! Lhi ng IAJe can say For Lhe MinisLer of DeveloprnenL, you will never see h:i.rn yawn, b1:'!cause h~'! is young and enthusiastic, vibrant, you know, full of life or whatever, this Minister of Development. But this Minister of Transportation - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. PARSONS: Well he is a young man. The Minister of Justice is a young man; and even my FriE!ncl the President of Treasury Board. AN HON. MEMBER : (Inaudible) . MR. PARSONS : No, hl':! is not.

I think that when it Finally boils dot.un to somE!bocly having to sign that cheque for the Outer Ring Road, I believe the President of Treasury Board will on1y be too glad to put his John Henry on it. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, I tAJas ~~oing to say a few words on the fishery, a few words oF praise, I suppose, for the Federal Government loclay in the program thE!Y brought in. But dismayed, Mt~. SpE!aket~, in somE~ of the anst.UE!rs given by the Premier today as i.t pertains to thE! ·fishery. Mr. Speaker.

I have said over and over again that when we wet~e a colony tAlE! managed our' ot.un fishet~y. And if lAJe do not haVE! money enough to supplement what comes from the Federal Government, then, Mr. Speaker, this is a sad clay in NelArfoundlancl. Al1 I hE:~ar today in all t:he anst.ur:~rs to qUE!Stions askE!d by thE! Leader of the Opposition and my other L22 May '/, 1990 VoJ. X L.I co11eagUE!S tAJas, 'Blarne i l :. on the Fed1:H·al Govet"nrnE!nl: . Bl.iillle oi.L on the Federal Government. We did our best. Blame it on Mr.

CrosbiE!.' Blame :it on anyonE! except thr:!rnselves; not onE! singlE! cent - they said they put $15 million into the FPI plant on l:he Southside. They werE! forCE!cl :i.nto it, Mr. Speaker . They were not going to do anything for thE! Southside. They knew the Southside plant was closing and did not do anything about :i.l~. until they were forced to put that money in there. Today, aqa:i.n, I J.j .stE!nE:!d tn clt!-lf::' t.uhen, in thl'! l':!ttE!r t.h1:! Pl"t:~m·i.~::·r sent to Ottawa on April 3rd A p r i 1 3 r cl , M r . S p C! a k E! r , h o IAI 1 o n ~~ did it takr:' thE!

Pt~erniE!r' t.o ~Jl:•l: a letter to Ottawa, teJ.ling Ot.tawa what he felt were the best requests For the people tnvolvecl in the fishery, the people short-changed in the fishery. I had the privilege to look over hjs 1i st. MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! The hon. Member's tjme has elapsed . MR . PARSONS: May I finish, Mr. Speaker? MR . SPEAKER : By leave? SOME HON. MEMBERS : Agreed. MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speai<E!t~, I satAJ somE! of the items that wet"E! top prior·ity for this Government. One included Marble Mountain, I think an E!Xpendil:Ut"E! oF about. 1>~,() 1njJ .Jion. Now, Marble Mountain is a good l:hi .ng, Ml".

Speaker'. It i.s a ~JOOcl thing For Newfoundla~d and No. 28 (Af 'let"noon) 1~2 2

Labrador, a good tourist att:t~action but, Mt". Spl:!aket~. hot.~J rnany Ftshet~mE!n at~E! goin~~ to qEd:. a job on Marble Mountain? Those are the peopl~":! tJJho have thE! pt"oblems. which should be addt~essed, and arE! not being addressed by this GovernmE!nt. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The hon . the Opposition House Leader. MR. SIMMS: Thank you, Mt". Speaket" . , It is r·athE!r interc~sting to see the stt~ategy of the GoVE!t~nment. I am not quite sure what thE:~ stratC:!<'LY -.i.s. We have minutes, about an hour or so, left - AN HON . MEMBER: An hour and two minutes . MR.

SIMMS: and tE!n ··- an hour and tiJJO minutes left to debate in the Concurrence Debate on th~"?. Estimates of the Departments of Municipal and Provincial Affait~s. Finance. Work. Set~vices and Transpot"tatj_on and Employment and Labour Relations. NotJJ, that hour· and two rn:i.nutes is going to be there anyway. Sometimes, Governments use the strategy of letting l:hem go on, on the othE!r side. to run out the clock, but the clock will still be there. AN HON. MEMBER : It will still be there . MR . SIMMS : Yes. thE! clock tJJi.ll s U.11 be there.

So, I think the pE!ople. the thousands of Newfoundlanders out there today right now, in L.23 Mc:'.ly '7. 1990 Vol XLI radio land, listening to the ·1 . t . l I . l I I sa. ].E!n ··. po:J.n·:s :J'''':l.ng pt"e~;,::!n · ·:.E•c ::~~; my colleagues, the hard - pressing qUE:'stions that at~E! b<~!-.ing put f"ot" Lh by Members on this side of the House, would like to have some anst~.Jers from time to time.

We do not expect Ministet~s. who at~E! tired and overworked. to jump up after every ten-minute interval, but I think it would be reasonable to expect somE!body to gE•t up onCE! in a while and say something about what the Government is doing. AN HON. MEMBER : D:i.d the Minister of Employment get up? MR. SIMMS : I d:i.d rny bE•st. 1 asl<eci C:'t f,::'tAJ questions oF the Minister ot Employment and Labour Relations. I thought I might goad her -.into getting up, but no n!sponSE!. The Member for St. John's East. EXtE!rn put questions to thE!

Min-.ister of Works, Services and Transportatio'n about the Outer Ring Road, and othE!l~ qu,:!stions. My coll~=·aquo. the ME!rrtbE!Y' OVE!l" hC::!I"E', put questions to the Minister of Finance. AN HON. MEMBER : (Inaudible). MR. SIMMS: Yes. about the education r~·uncling in the Mi.nister of Finance's Buci~~E!t, and things like t.hat. It is a11 rE!lE!Vant, but nobody gE!t.s up. Well, maybe I will try another tactic. AN HON. MEMBER : What about the payroll tax? MR. SIMMS: Perhaps I payroll tax wi ll touch on briefly. Let us No. 28 (Aftel"noon) t hE• t:ouch 1\2 3

on the payr'oll l::ax briE!I'1y and see if !AlE! can get h'im up. Maybe we can then go to negotiations in Labou1n RE !lations, so thE! PrE!Sident of Treasury Board will feel fit and fE!el free to stand. But I arn first going to go to the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, because I want to ask several questions pertaining to the portfolio he holds, and the many facets of that portfolio, all of which are much too cumbersome and difficult for this particu1ar Minist•~r to handle; nevertheless, he has the u1t:imate responsibility For' it.

I ref•:lr, for ,example, to not only munJ.cipal ~11nant Funcl:ing, but I refer to the Recreation Capita} GJnanl:: f>lnoqJ"am, WE! USE!d l::o hav•:~ in th:is Pr'ov:inu~ al:: one ttrne, lAJhtch lAJas ver·y popular. ThE~ Member for Exploits, who is sitting next to thE! Minister now, frequently supported Recreation Capital Grant funding for communities around the Province, to hel~ them with their little softba11 fiel.ds, o1n to help l::h"Hn fix something at the stadium in Bishop's Falls, or to help the Curling Club fix their leaking rooF, all kinds oF t.hings.

Gander USE!d to get a11 kinds oF J.i.tt.1E! recreation capital grants. The community of Benton, which is having difficult times these days with its ME!mber I undE!rstand, some difficult discussions and debates have been going on behind the scenes, but the community of Benton would love to have $10,000. I-t is not a big amount, and paying it over a three year period, it is nothing; or $5,000, whatever it is to help put a little softball field in place or a little soccer fie1d. And this GovenliTH~nt, I cannot unclers l~ancl 1~1hy they do l~hese things.

I cannot unciPrs l:ancl it I It was a pall::ry amount of money in L2 ti May 7, 1990 Vol XLI the capita1 bucl~~·:!t. I knot-11 las;l~ year, fol" E!Xi:'\lflp1e, the funcli n~J requirr:-d to JnEHd: the comrnitrnents that had a1rE!aciy been g:i.VE!n ovc~r· previous y1~ars lAJas about $:1. .·9 mill.ion -- J.ast YE!ar -·· it may bf:! a bit more this year. That is what it was last year. It is not a btg amount of money. Then, I think, it was proposed to put another $500,000 or $750,000 in the p1nogram Iast yE!aln for neiAJ capital. grant Funding.

It lAJas no l~ a big amount _of money; it was capital funding, and it served, Mr. Speaker, as you weJ.l know, represent.ing th(! his totni.c Dis t.r.i.ct of Be 11•~ vuE! , it s e 1" v e cl rna n y , rna n y needs of many small cotniTJUt1"i.ties, communities which were not able to put up bir~ s l:.acliu1ns 01n put-.· up a cur'J.i.ng rink or' an_ythinq J.ar·qe and grandiose Iik1:! that, but. lAI·ith $5,000 or $10,000, and wi Lh s Ol'TlE! local initiative and local. labour, it couJ.d surE ~ as heck put in a nice little ball Field For the peopJ.r:~ in that rur'al comtnun :i.t..y' fol" a bit oF recreational exercise.

But l:h:i.s GovE~1nn1nent: E!Jtrn ·l.natecl the Recreati .ona1 Cap:i tal GJ"ant Pt"oqr·am r:· o 1n L his yea 1n -· they e 1 :i.m:i nat. r::~ ci the program. Now, I knolAJ, Mr. Sp•:'akE!r', you tnus t have thoughts in your' nrl.nd, and if" you werl':! in thE! position l:o ask a question, as I arn, I arn suJnE! you lAJould ask the sa1ne question: Why on eal"Lh clicl l:.hE! Min.i.sl:.E!I" elirninate t.he l~E!Cr!O'ationa1 Ci:,1pi l".a1 Grant Program? I wi11 teJ.l you what I think happened, Mr. Speaker.

It is onJ.y spE:~culation, because I have no tAJay o-F knot~.J:lng for sure, but I think the Minister, himself, was fairly supportive of the program . lhat is my gUE!SS, that he, lri.rnsr::dl ', s<:·\l.u a Jot of vaJ.ue in the Recreational Capita1 C1nant Progt"<'1rn, a1 onq t:he ··1 . ·r I I . I I t . l .. :J.nes ·1ave CE!SCJ"J :lee, ···o ass:u; ··: srna11 cornrnuni tiPs. I hav• :) a No . 28 (Afte1nnoon) I~ 2 ll

sneaky feeling he supported that kind of a pi"091"c~m. And I have a sneaky feeling there are others in thE:~ CabinE:~t IAJhO suppOI"tE!d thE! program, but tJJhen it carnE:~ to l:he crunch around the Cabinet table, the fifteen people tJJho sit around the table, they were having to deal with a situation forced on them by the Minister of Finance tJJho insisted, Now, boys and girls, we have to cut the clefi cit -·· JAJe have to cut the deficit! Never rnincl the peopJ.E!, nE!VE•J" mind giving them any social programs; Forget that f'ooJ.ishnE!SS, IAJe haVE! to cut the clefici t. So whc:H'e do you cut?

And it is often put forward, every year. I remember when I was in Cab.i.nE!t, tlll"ough Uw BuclgEd:aJ"Y process tha ·t kind oF a suqgest.ion IAJoulcl a].JAJays come:~ up. In fact:, the bureaucrats would often put forth ideas they felt there was not a chance in the world the Government would ever eliminate. It was their favourite programs, and the most difficult ones politically, I suppose, to eliminate. So they would always put forth - AN HON. MEMBER : (Inaudible) programs . MR. SIMMS: We did from timE! to time, but this Government has claRe it alJ..

So you have a situation where most of thE:~ Cabinet, in my viE!W, suppot"ted the Recreational Capital Grant Pr·ogJ"am, but, as we all know, IAJhat happens in that Cabinet, Mr. Speaker, when it gets around the table up to the middle of the head table, the decision is made. AN HON. MEMBER: The head table? MR. SIMMS: Yes, the head table where the Premier sits. L2 5 May '7, 1990 Vo1 XLI MR. BAKER: A11 the same table . MR. SIMMS : Yc:'s, all the satnc:! t.ab1e . Whc:'!n it gets up to the CE:'ntJ"E' whr:~J"E• the Premier speaks - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SIMMS: I will bet almost anything that thE!

JAJOl"d carnr:~ clou.Jn fl"Orn on h:l.gh lAJhich said, Okay, l~.here is lol'.s oF dJ f FE!l"E!nCE! of op:inion on l~.hts Recreational Capital Grant flt~ogt"am. It is a good pJ~O<:JJ"atn, however, tAle haVE! l:o i'n ako a decision. I say I say cu L. oiL, and t.hat was t.he 1:!ncl of· discussion. The rest of' l'.he Cabinet tJJeJ"e not pt"epat~ed to Fiqht thE! Premier, no qUE!St'i.on, and that is what happened there. I do not expect a CabinE!t Mi.nistE!l" to gE:.t up and say that. No CabirH:>t Min:i.s'l:E!l" J;.Ji.J.J. gE•t. up and say t:hal, because he:~ is not FHH'IIlil:.t1::!d to because of the oath of secrecy.

But I can tell by the:! C:)J"ins on thE!:ir facE'!S, their srn.:l .res, the:it" eyes l'.winkling and eueryt:hJng E·1se, that they at"e ~:;ayoi.n<:J, qo Lo it: Sirni'ns, boy, kc::!E:.p al:. it:, bE!CcHJsc:! that is what we were sayinq 'in Cabinet but JJJe could not <JC::!t anywhere with it with the Prem:ier. Maybe the Minister responsib1e for Recreation will cornrnenl'. on whether or· not he was happy to E!Ii.rn:inate the Recreational Capita1 Grant Pl"ograrn, IAJhich has SE!rVE!d th'.is Province we11, particularly rural parts of NewfoundJ.and. But keep in rnind, Mr.

Speakc~r, il~. is another attack on rura1 Newfoundland, because l'.hal'. is lJJherE! that program faVOI"E!d, no question about it, and it ti<:.s in well with amalgamation and all the s e o t: h '" r is s u e s lkl hi. c h a 1~ E• No. 28 ( Af'lE!J"nocHl) 1\2 5

centrally focused on having big large communities, urban centres only, Forget rural Newfoundland. It is all part of the overall mind-set of ·the hon. the Premier. not Members of Cabinet. I know what Members of Cabinet think, I know what many of them think, and one of these days we will see more Members of the CabinE!t be as strong as the Minister of Social Services who is, I am willing to bet. prepared to talk back to the Pt~ernier. prepat~ed to put forth his point of viet.u, prepared to argue with the Premier. MR. 1~. AYLWARD : He is not happy (inaudible). MR. SIMMS: I think he still i.s, but maybe is is not.

He is, unfortunately. about the only one sitting ar·ound the table who is prepared to stand up to the PrE!mier. Now, that is a bit of insid1?. information I give to thE! M1::.mbE!l" for PlacE•ntta. fot" example, t.uho may tAJish to stand up in this debatE!. My other question to of Municipal AFfairs local issue out in amalgamation. AN HON. MEMBER: thE! Minis lE!l" d E:'a 1 s Grand tAJith a FaLls, The water treatment plant? MR. SIMMS: I t..~.JiJ.l g1::.t ·to the lAJater treatment plant. It is a SE!rious question. I want to know when he foresees the decision on amalgamation being made?

Is it going to be made around the CabinE!t Table, or is it coming into the House of Assembly, as hE! said, ot" is hE! goinc:1 back to the communities and the councils and ask them to respond to what you think should happE!n. and that kind oF thing? I want to know tJJhat. t.he PI"OCI~!SS !Aii11 be, a1id tlv? L26 May 7, 1990 Vol XLI ttming. I t'lm se1~i.ous ly concer·nc•d about it -··not concer'necl, but. interested in knowing what hap p e n s . I h o p E! hE! lAd 1 1 s tan cJ :i. n his place and e1aborab::. a b:i.t. on that. While::~ he does it..

I IAJou1d like him, then, to tell me wh1::!ther or not the accusation made by some out in Central Newfoundland with respect to the funding of the water treatment plant. some of whom call it bJ.acl<man. --I arn not sure but I might l1ave been one of· them. I cannot rE!member no!AJ fo1~ sure. But I do know some di .d t.uhen he said in response to the cornrnunitiE!S out th~::~rE!, W1::. IAd.ll not. pt~ovicle fund:i.nq Fat" the t;.Ja t f'!l" tt"eatrnent plant unti.l t.:hE! a rna 1 g a rna t i. on I think that. he said. In of the letter. issuE• i.s dea1t. is essent-.ially fact, I havE• a AN HON. MEMBER: What MinistPr?

MR. SIMMS: lAJJ . t. h . tAJha t. copy The Minister oF Munictpal Affait"S. Thet"~:! t;.JE!l"(! rhany out i.n Centl"al NewFoundland IAJho said t.hto,t ·. IAJ a s p o 1 i t oi c a 1 b 1 a c k rna i 1 . A s I said, I am SUJ"e :if I was ono of thE!nl who sa:id il:., but I do l<nOt.\J many others said it. I tJJant: l:o know now if the issue oF the water treatment plant funding will be dealt with after amalgamation. Wi11 it, in fact. be dealt !.ld.th? Is it sti.11. aJ.:i.vE•?

Is i.t SOI"l .. of on the shelf For active reconsideration, or more consideration after the a rna 1 g a rna t i. on t s suE! i. s dE! a 1 t tAd l:. h? I would like hirn to anstJJE!r that questton for me because, as he knows. and as I have said in rE!Sponse to hirn. arna1galflat .i.on. i.n rn y v i [;:! IJJ . s h o u .l d h a v rO! not hi n g to cl o tJJi. t h ·l~ hE! cl E! cis ion on L hE' fun cl t n <_:l of thP lAJat:r:!J" !::J"ea t:.J'rt(!n t plant. because the people out in the area cl e s ''! r v e goo cl • c 1 e iHl tAla t. l:' r . I t No. 28 (Af Ler-rwon) R26

should have nothing to do with amalgamation. So I was not happy tAli t. h that p a I" tic u 1 a I" decision , but I lAJiJ.l ~J:i.VE:! thE! M:i.nistet" a chancE:' t.o respond to it and comment on it. I knotAJ from talking privately to my two seatmates, geographically speaking, the Member for Windsor - Buchans and the Member for Exploits, that 'l:he Member for Windsor - Buchans, thE!

Membel" for· Exploits and I are bum to bum and chE!ek to chE!ek on this par·U.culal" issue with 0espect to the water trE!atrnE!nt plant; tAle th:ink the water treatment plant funding should be pt"oviciE!cl bE~C<HlSE! the people deserve good, clean water. MR. SPEAKER : The hen. Member 1 s time is up. The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Thank you, very much, Mr. Speaker . I lAJan t. to say a fE!W LIJOI"ds on t:hE! Concurl"ence Debate, and I think I LIJi11 beg:i.n IAJhE!l"E'! my hon. col1E!i:'lgue For Gl"ancl Falls lE!ft ofF. I arn SUl"PI"iseci, Ml".

SpE!akel", that no colleagues opposite are getting up to defend the expenditure of Government funds in those Departments. I had a chance, in the last half hour, t.o ~JO through Hansard for Thursday and Friday, and I would like to reFer to comments made by my han. colJ.eague and good friend from Eagle River. Mr. Speaker, I am going to be cornplimE!ntal"Y to the hon. Member, as I usua11y am. I am glad my han. colJ.eague brought this up, because other than the five or six occasions on which I brought up this particular issue, in this hon.

HousE:•, I do nol: I"E!CaJ.J. anothE!I" M1:~mbE!r, on eithE•I" side of L.27 May 7, 1990 Vo-l XLI the House, bringing up this concern again. But I notice rny hon. colleague From Eagle Riuer has.

I do not. knoiAJ j_ f rn_y hon. -col1ea~~ue r~::~ad 1ny spE!eches ov1'"r the J.ast nine year·s Ol" not .. l<not ... ling rny han. co1league, and knowing hoLIJ hard I have bE!E!n fighting for the people of Labrador over the last nine or ten years, I wou1d think, sincE~ rny hon. colleague is new in this House, he IAJOl.l.ld IAJanL to try and find out if we are both on the same tAJave lE!ngth in fightin<::J for the concerns of the Labrador people.

Reading my hon. co11E!ague 1 s comments on Fr·:i.clay Ol" ThUl"sclay, LIJhat.E!VE!r clay i l:_ L11as -- I think it:. lAJas Ft"icla_y - 1 qot the feeling rny han. coJleague does haVE! a rE!al fE•r:•lj_ng in his hE!al"t for the people whom he l"t::'Pl"E!Sents. I wouJ.cl say th:i.s, Mt". Speaker, whether ht::~ Js in l:he House or on the labrador coast, regardless of whE!r~:! hH is, becaus1:­ I have said th:i.s beFore and I will say it again: I arn talkinq about: the con c E' l" n h E• ~=~ x p l" e s s e cl Lll:i. 1 .. h l"espect to t.h1:=!

F1~dE!ral CovE•rnmE•nt., and IAJ:.Lt:.h l"E!SpE!CL Lo unernploy rnent insurance for Fishermen. Now, Mr. Spt::~aker, thos1::• tAJho IAJI''r'e in the House on Friday - I was not here, because I had rny duty t.o my Church on Friday. I am Pl"oucl that once in a while an individual Member will put politics aside and look at his ob1igat.ion to his Church. That is IAihat I tAJas cioin~J on Friday' · and I havE· no qualrns about that, Mr . Speaker. MR. HOGAN : (InaudiblE!). Ml~. WARREN: Ml".

SpeakE!l", I say to colleague From Placentia IAJaS :i_n thE! tE!I"I":itOI"_II of' collt:~agues Ft"orn Cadwnear, No. 28 ( Af tel"noon) 111!1 hon. that I ITIY han. Hal"bour I~ 2 7

GJ~ace and PorL d<:! GJ"aue, oueJ~ t:he l"lE!E!kencl . I had Lo pay rny cluE!S Lo rny Church, and thal : . .is one oF rny obligations, naturally, as a Chl"isU .an. AN HON. MEMBER: Did you pay (inaudible)? MR. WARREN: Oh, yes, d~1finitely, Ml". Speaker. There is no doubt about that. However, I would like to get back to what ·I IAJas saying. A few rnornents ago, I was talking about my han. colleague from Eagle lhve1". In fact., I say to rny han. coJ.lE!ague I IAJaS VE!I"Y, VE!I"Y cornp.l:imentat"Y to h:irn and I tAJould 1ike:' to cont:inlH! 1"1hat I !Alas saying. Mr. Speaker, I usually am.

Hou.JeVE!Y', I cornplimE!nt the han. Member on his concern about UI for fishermen . Now, Mr . Speaker, here is where I have a problE!m. AN HON. MEMBER : You have a problem everywhere . MR. WARREN: Mr'. Speaker, I do not IAJcH1 t to be distracted now, because I would like to continue:' with rny concE!rns about a very important issue . I refer to my hon. colleague, and if rny han . collegue so wishes, I can dig up the correspondence - AN HON. MEMBER: That was nine years ago . MR . WARREN: No, eleven years ago. AN HON. MEMBER: All of that? MR. WARI~fN: YE!S, GOE!S l"iqht back to 1.979.

H.:- I can l"<~ca.1.1 corr<~spondence I I All" o t e t o M I" . R o rn p k E:! y a n d M I" . L 1 o y ci L28 May '7, 1990 Vol XLI AXLIJOrthy th:ink of Immigration YE!ars now - I arn so me I: or AN HON. MEMBEr~ : Barbara McDougall . MR. WARREN: jus L tl"y".inq Lo M· .i.1·1:is tC::•I"S or: ~ Lh e last e1eve n Ye-s-,---B-ar·b-ara McDougall deFini te1y. and John RobE!rts. In fac L, then! IJJere eight or ninE!.

I consistent~y corresponded wi th those Members asking iF th ey would, as Ministers in Lh e Governm<o'nt oF Canada, mak<~ representat:ion and get th e un<::~rnployrnent. :insurance chl'\l'llj!:'d r:or the Labrador Fishermen. 1 n Fa c 1: , M I" . S p E! a k E! I" , I IAI j 11 L e l 1 you how far I went. When Mr . Rornpkey was invited into Mr. Trudeau's Cabinet, that 1"1as a glorious day For the peop1e of Labrador; the people in Labrador were quite happy they had t:i pE! rson to repreSE!Ilt l:hern in Lhe CabinE!t. So , I h a v e c o I" 1'' e s p o n cl E• n c e IAJ h e I" E! l L\Jt"ote Mr.

Rornpkey asking h:i.1n t:.o help change thE! ] au.Js, chanqe L\ ·1~:· rules and regulations for Lhe fi.sherrnE!n on th< :'• LabJ"aclor' c oa ~;t., exact.ly t;.Jhat thE! Mc~rnbe1" 11Jas ~>a~ring this pa st Friday. However, Mr . Speaker, the unfortunate Lhing about i.t is that ne.l t.hE•J " Mt ". Rompkey, Mr. Ax1"1orthy, Bal "btH 'a McDouga11, Ml" . RobE!rts, no!" <'>ny of the Feder·a1 Minist E!rs, h<;~vc• sc :!en fit to answer in a positi.ue manner the requests we haue been making. So I say to rny hon. co11E'!a~]ue, I agree with hirn. AN HON. MEMBER : (Inaudible) everybody . MR. WARr~EN: I kno1JJ. At: leasl:.

Mernber with rne now Labl"aciol", so 1<':! t fight the Federal No . 28 (Aft .ernoon) I hav<:' anol:.hE!r on thr::! coast of thE! tlAIO O f US COVE!I"niTIE•nL and R2B

Ottawa to get it changed . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. there is an example. I can understand why my colleague gets frustrated with his own Members. AN HON. MEMBER : (Inaudible) tAJhen lAJe were over UH~t"e. (lnauciibJ.e) . MR . WARREN: Mr . Speaker. I need the pr·otection of the Chair For one simple r·ea son. HE! re we arE! talking about an issue, whet"r:- a colleague From Labrador has I:H:'en fighting for changes in the Unemployment InsuranCE!

Act. and t.he hon. the Minister of Social Services has again shown, as other Ministers and other Members on that side show lAJith respect to Uw Lal:}rador' Coast, thE:~y do not care about the issue~; which are brought up. Mr. Speaker, you were listening to what thE• han. ME!TrlbE!I" said, that he wanted to see UI regulations changE!d. MR. EFFORD : I lAlill tell you I was more than in my interested putting a office. in Labrador $25,000 washroom MR. WARREN: NotAl, Mr. interesting . han. - MR. EFFORD: Speaker, I wouJ.d You did not care Labrador people then. MR . WARREN: that is say to thE! about thE:~ I sur·e did.

Mr. Speaker'. I lAJant L.29 May 7. 1990 Vol XLI to ask thE! hon. MJnjster, cij.d put any stovr:!S in houses Labt"aclor· 1atE!1y. Ol" cljd . hE· stoves from some other sources? MR . EFFORD : Yes . MR. WARREN : you tn c:JE!'l. Oh, you got them from somE! othE!r sources. I see. NotAl, if you tAk\nt to talk about washrooms, I will talk about stovE:'S. Mr. SpE!aker. I say to the hon. gr~ntJ.Co'ITlan, :.Lf there are any stoues for sale. pleasE:' s~~ncl thern to Dav:.Ls Inlr:!t, they. need them, okay? And rnak1?. sure you buy thr::-m at cost. MR. EFFORD: Yes. MR.

WARREN : M r . ·s ·pea k e r . to go b a c k to IAI h a t I was saying about rny hon. collea~JUe and about unemployment insurance. I think rny hon . co11eagUE! has rnaciE! a good point on lJI. I tAJ:i ~ll support his r:!nciE!auor·s to ~1et Lhe UI regulations changed, bE!Cause they need to be changed . Unfortunately, the Minister of SoctaJ. Ser·vicE!S cloE=•s nol knot.<.J IAii 'li·~t it:. is like on thr:~ Labr'dciot~ Coast bE!lL\IE!E!n May and Septembei". That . is the unfortunate part. about i.l:. The hon. gE~nt}E!rnan is af1"aici l~o go on ·the Labrador Coast bE• tlAJEH'n November and June.

He js not going to go up before Ju1y, IAJhen hE! can go ·fishing. That is Lhe problem, Mr. Speaker. He had the past YE!al" and he did not go up on the Labrador Coast. and I am saying to the hon. MinJster remember, there are concerns in Labradot" l:tAJe1vE:' rno·i·1ths of l:.hE=! year. not tlAJO rnonths of thr:! yE~dl". MR . EFFORD : (Inaudible) . MR. WARREN: No. 28 (Afli:!rnoon) I~ 29

M1~. hon. dO lAin down ~;peak e J" , rn:i g h t gentleman JJJhy be f'or'E!? Why I say hasn't cli.cin't to the he gon1~ he go last week? M R~ ._. ff£. 0 R Q : I spent the WeE!kend fishing down there. MR. WARREN: I kneJJJ you clicf. MR. EFFORD: I clo not lie about things. MR . SIMMS: Ask your colleague, the of Development, and arrange it for you. Ml~. EFFORD : y (:' s . MR. WARREN : Minister hi;:! JJ..Jill We were talking about fishing, Mr . Speaker, but we were also talking about unemployment insurance for fishermen.

Unemployment insurance for fishermen is very, very irnpol"tant to the people· on the Labrador Coast who cannot begin to prosecut.e thE! fisher·y ·unt.il the fiJ"st of JunE!, at lE!ast, and then it is only until the last of September at the latest. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. Member's time has elapsed . MR. WARREN: Thank you, Ml". SpE!a k er . Mr . Speaker? SOME HON. MEMBERS: No -1.eave r------ MR. SPEAKER : By lE!ave, ThE! hon. the ME!rnbel" for PlaCE!ntia . MR. HOGAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . uo May 7, 1990 Vo1. XLI I clo not knoiAJ IAJhal:. rny hon.

Fr'i.E!ncl for Grand Falls mean~> by hi .s 'i n t E• rT U p t i 0 n S , 0 I'' lAI ha t hE' :.i S trying to prove, but I <:~m glad to stand at t·.hi.s particulal" Ume to contradict some of the garbage that is spE!Wing out of the mouths of the people on the other -side, particularly when it. conlE!s to recreation programs. The Regional Recreation Pl"agram, wh:i.ch has beE!I1 introduced in this Budget, 'is probably the best program that ha s ever been made available to munic:i.palttie s and comrnuni.t:i .es j n this Province .

It is one which rrrunicipaJ.it'iE!S and I"E•creatJon cornrnissions have been se.:olcin•J For somE! ttme, and to sec tL :i.n Lh'.i.s Bucl~~et afl:el" just on'~ y~;;•al" is a good th:i.nq; it 'is a ~JOOci Lhj nq rol" our rE!Cr':'ation corrunissions, .. i 1':. :is a good thing for our municipalities . I realize the smaller grants program has been cut thi.s year, but if lAJe had introclucHcl it Uds YE!etl", 1'>11". SpE:!ai<E!I", L\le tAIOuJd have to carry it on into next year.

We haVE! to haVE! t:hat J.uJ .I f'ol" l:.his Vl::!ar, Lvhile oFFicials o( l.:h'" Department, recreation commissions, munic:ipali.ties and Members of the House can have their input into a nr~w proqra1n, which hopE!fully wtl1 bE· .i.nLI"oducE!cl in the Budget n1~xt year. IF necessary, as I understand il.., there are mechanisms in placo in the fisca1 al"l"di1~Je1TienLs oF Government tAJhere they can bring in such introductions, intl"ociucE! such small progr·ams. ThE! communities out therE! are not being deprived as hon. Membel"S opposite would like us to believe.

Since my Friend J·:I"Oin Menihek is here today, I will reiterate IJJhat·. I satcl l:.hc• ol:.hE!r clay, that I a1n in favoUI" or· !:.hE:! S U b S i cl y p I~ 0 ~~ I~ dIn l:. 0 a t. h 1 (! ,l.: ~~ S No. 28 ( A F LE! n10 o

n) r~3 o

travelling From the Island to L ab1oado1" ancl f 1"01Tl l...c3.bJ"acio1o to the Island. I know, during my days d otAm thE:! 1" e • i l: tAJa s a g 1° E! e1 t asset to .those who tAJished to participate in ath1E!tic E!VE:~nts thr·oughout the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, and I will try to encourage and rationalize with those who arE! studying the rE!Viet.u of the program to see that i ·t is introduced again next year. People opposite .t,uould like us to be1ieve it was dropped this year. It is not dJoopped this year, it. is still in place and people can sti.ll take advantage of that program this year.

By next year, by the time the Buclgr:~t cornE:!S aJ"ound a~Jain, and rny ·floiend, the hon. the Ministeto of Finance stands in his place and produces more of these programs, the eyes of the public will be opened. just as they were when the last Budget was introduced. Get.ting back to the J"oads pioograrn this year. The hon. l:he Minister of Works, Services and Transpor-tation has inl:roduced a capital works program which far exce1:=!cls any pt"ogram that has E!Ver been introduced.

Granted it is one that probably grew out of some arrangements by our predecessors, nevertheless it is there, and the tAJork camE~ out E!ar1y; we atoE· not waiting until mid-summer so that the work wiJ.l not start until next year. Some of it is stat"ted already. It was pt"obably delayed because of the weather over the weEd<end, but I know, in t"e~Jions of my District, some of the IAIOt"k is alrE!acly unciE!I"lAJay. or just about to g e l: uncle rt..<.Ja y • and t. hat is t 11 e tAla y it should be.

We should not be tAJaiting until thE! lattet" pat"t of the year to introduce these pt"ograrns, lAJe should I:H>. intt"oducing them E!aJoJ.y so that pE!OpJe nr:!edj_nq L31 May 7. 1990 Vol XI:..I work during the suJ'JtJnor and clut"ing the construction season can geL at il: ~~arly, 'insl.:ec::td oF to~Jaiting unl'.-.i l fa11 ancl probabJ.y goj.ng on j n Lo the Following year. Mr. Speaker, I would aJ.so like to reiterate my earlier· t"ernarks about the Department of Employment and Manpower - Labour ReJ.ations. I will get it right one of these days! The hon.

Minist:et"' s lAJOt"k in Occupational Health and Safety. in pat"ticuJ.at", in which I havE· gt"l::!at interest, has Far lc!XCI::>eclucl thaL oF any M:l.nistE!l" in that posoi. l.::ion :.l.n rny rnr:~rnot"y, and I have I:H!I?n (3t Lhe Occupational HE!alth and ~3afc•t.y game for far too long. AN HON. MEMBER : How long? . MR. HOGAN : How long? Hdt"ty YE!C.'H'S. anytAJay. I have been involved in that, and I have never seen anybody have inpul into Occup~tional HualLh and SafE!ty at that l!:O!VC::!l of' Lhc• present Minister. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Heat", hE!a1"! MR. HOGAN: My Friend from St. Extern got up.

I whether he spoke to under debate, or not. AN l-ION. MEMBER : No. MR. HOGAN: I cannot Speaker. MR. EFFORD : unciE!t"stand John's East do nol:. knotAJ the subjE!Ct Dj.cl he? l:hat:. MJ·' . Old anti - confederate (inaucl i b1e) . MR. HOGAN: Yes, anti - everything . anti - confederaLe; I do not know No. 28 (AfU,~r·noon) IDl

u1hat has c ornE! o v c:•r thE! rnan sincE! he got elected to politics. At OnE! time hE! IAiaS a Vf:!lny pos".il:.i.ve fe1lotJJ. I t.UOtnkecl stele"! by side ·wi t:h hirn for .YE!atns, pt"obably not cheek to cheek. AN HON. MEMBER: You turned your back to him, dtd you? MR. HOGAN: Oh, yes. OnE!• ti.me hE! was a good ·fe11otJJ to have to your back. And I was probably a good fe1low to have to his back. But it SE!erns that those days are gonE! now, you cannot turn your back on him. GonE!! GonE!! BecaUSE!

E•VE!lny ti.lTIE'! he gets up in this House he contradi.cts his own code of practices, his own code of ethics, everything he beliE!ves in and exemplifies outside this House, outside this bt.d.J.ding, probably outside the city. Probably something funny comes over him when he comes across the - AN HON. MEMBER : When he comes to St. John's. MR. HOGAN: Yes, tAJhE!I1 he comes to St . John's. rhal: is it. Wi1E!n hE! cornc"!S to St. John's, he gets that mentality. Whatever happens to him when he comes up Torbay Road, corning to the House, he undergoes a change at thE! boundai"Y.

ThE! bounclai"Y is right t:hE!l"e by Wr:~clgetJJoocl Park, is it? MR. PARSONS : I arn the only thoroughbred St. John's (inauclibJ.e). MR. HOGAN: Once he passE•s WE!dgeuJood Park, he swi tchE!S from Dr. Jeky11 to Mr. Hyde, Ol" Frorn Mt". Hyde to Dtn. Jc"!ky11, and he comes in here and hE! is a poor-rncwl~hecl, rnean- -·rnoul~hE•d L32 May '7, 1990 Vol XLI lory, which I know he is not . AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) . MR. HOGAN: Well, I cannot blarrtE! hirn really. I cannot blame hirn ·for being against the amalgamation that was put to hirn, his colleague::> sitt.ing next to him has this supE!In ci .ty idea, you see.

Amalgamation tJJould be a good idea in their area if it is clone::' in a certain fashion, but i.f you J.i.stE•n t.o t:he supE!I" c1.l .. y, and if he lis tc~ns to t.hu Mc::!inber for St. John's East:, well, Uwn, they are going to be lost in Pouch CovE• ot" F1att"ock, IAihE!I"E•vet" Jl:. :.i.s he:;! is SEd.: Up nOlAl. I haVE! SOIIle interest in that particular Dist:riat, because I have:> SOIIlE! Friends down there. MR. PARSONS : You have a brother clown there . MR. HOGAN: AnyuJay, M1·'. Speakr::•1", Lhe hon. t.l ·1r::! MernbE!r cl~oss ovc:•r the:• bounclcH'Y in Wedgewood Park and he lo ses alI his senses.

The M:i n:i.stE!I" of Finance, on Buciqr::·t · Day ·- I have to ~Je L -j I: ou l:.. I cannot find the particular subject. Although I ran across anothet" one. Look, Mr. Speaker', the han. Leader, rorn lhdoout: 'Give lory Leader Torn Rideout a chance.' I do not knotJJ tAJho put this in my notes, but it j s si~Jnecl by our good friend, and a Fri.E!nd of thE! hon. the Mi.rr.i .slE!r of Soci .a1 Services, Ted Nosc::!uJort.hy. He thinks leader number one is the rc:>incarnat.ion Of Joe ~31na11tAJOOd. May God forgive us! Mr. Speakc:!r, I c:~rn glad Lo s Land a 11 cl S Ll p p 0 r t t: hE! Mi. n '.i. S t r:!

I" S lA I h 0 p 1.1 t fortAJat"cl such innovative, SlJCh nc~tJJ L.i.bet"a1 pt"O~Jt"atns in t.heit" Vdr':ious No . 28 (AFten10on) 1\3 2

Budget Estimates they brought to t.he l:ab11~ hE!lnl:~ :in fou1n Cornrn:it.t.::!e meetings. I am disappointed he is not. h1?.1nt::~ again l:oclay, the hon ·. the Member for Burin - Placentia West. Except For him, the evening went well. The han. the Member For Port au Port chaired a very difficult meeting. Our friend, I do not know what happened to him, but he must have taken the same pill the hon. the Member for St. John 1 s East ExtE!rn took, and got ugly during the meeting and it sort of deteriorated. But the hon. lhe Member for Port au Port did handle a ~Jooci meeting, and it went tAJell.

Thank you very much, Min. Speakeln. MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Member for Menihek . MR. A. SNOW: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I would 1 ike to, in speaking in the ConculnrE!nCE!

Debate on the Budge t Est i rna l e s ·For thE! f o u In Departments, Municipal and Provincial Affairs, Works, Services and Transportation, Employment and Labour Re1ations, and the DE!palntlfl('!l'l"l: of FinanCE!, say I am pleased to have lhe opportunity to speak on thE•m, and relate to this House holAJ it specifically affects some of the residents and some of the companies District. in rny pa1n·U.cula1n First I would like to correct what thE! hon. the Member f01n Placentia sugges ·ted in his sp1~aking.

I knOIAJ he did not deliberately attempt to mislead the Members of· this House when he suggestE!d lhat some pE•ople on lhis sicl1:! a1ne l1:>aving the impression that Travel Subsidy Programs, which IJJelne in place For twenty - four years, have been discontinued in Labrador. In L33 May '7, 1990 Vol XLI poin t of fact, he su~J':JC:!~; t c,:•d thr:•y IJJ 1:! I~(! n 0 t . T h 1:! r' I"!

IAJ e In e t·.IAJ 0 p I~ 0 ':3 I" d rn S a v a :i. 1 a b 1 E! l o L h e l" e s j ci e n t s o r N~~wfoundland and Labraclo1n OVI''ln l::h1:.'! past numbE!r of yea1ns, onE! instituted twenty - five years ago, and one instituted about sixteen or seventeen years ago.

One program is complete1y gutted, slashed, done aJJ..Jay tAJith, so it is corlnE!Ct lAJhen pE!OplE! on t.h:i.s sidE:! of the House stand up and suggest that the program is complete1y discontinued, one particular pi"Oglnam, that i.s the LabJ"acioJ" A·il" Passenger Subsidy Proqram. rhe onE!, as a rnatLE!r of fact, tha 'l:. t:he hon.Member, I be1ieue. had Lhe oppol"tun:i.ty o f paJ"ti.cj.pal·:inq ::in a citizen 1 s committee that lnepi"E!SE:~ntE!ci thE! peopl.E! of' Mc:•n:-l hul<, or Labr'acioJ~ irJ1:>st as 1~11::!

IAIIo'lne knoi>Jn then, in a deleqation that was sent here to 1obby the previous U.bE!raJ. ~Jovernment in 1966, I believe it IJJa s . The people of Western Labrador a p p r 1:! c i ate d the Fa c t: L h a l:. h u IJ . .J a s ab1e to convtncr:• thE! 1 hon. Pl"emir:•l". and the people associated wil:.h the GovelnnmE!nt at that par'l:.i.cuJal" ciay that:. thal progr'aln shou]d be inst.t t u tE!cl. MS VERGE: Did he use the name Labrador West? MR. A. SNOW: T hE! hon. Mernbe1n knOIAJS thE:! conCE!I"ns o·f the peoplE! of WI:!Stl:!rn Labrador becauSE! he li.VE!cl U1E!i"E! r·oln a period of years.

So I just. tAJant to state that while one program was completely discontinuucl, the other program tAJas cut back by ~r,lOO,OOO, so I knoliJ tiw hon.Mernber IJJouJ.d not. IJJant to ·lE•ave l:.hat: speci f icalJ.y in the Hansard. MS VERGE: Is the Member for defending t.he cutb~cks? No. 28 (A f LE•Innoon) Placenl".:"i.a rn3

MR. A. SNOW: I atn suJAE! IAJhE:!n Ll1o hon.ME•mbet" :is put: in Cabin1:!t, becausE! l~here a1Ae qotng t:o be C:'l fE!lAJ of' lh€:!rn · fJ.i.ckE•ci out of Cabinet, thE!re has lo be. When he is put in there he is going to be able to articulate the needs and concerns, not only ·of the people of Placentia but the people of Labrador too. And we will have those programs back because he tAJi.ll be able to, rant and roar, louder than the hon.Minister of' Finance and, of course, convinCE! thE!Tfl to do thi.ngs thaf can help this province. MR.

EFFORD: You fE!11otAJS at"t:! cit:! ad ovE•I" there, no life in you at al1. .I':EL ___ Il_ _:-.§_ No~ : But · ·rir·st Mr. SpeakE!r, I tAJant to speak just a little about the Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

This overworked Minister who also lived in Wes tr:'rn Labrador For a pE•riod of time, and peop1e in Western Labrador thought he lAJoul.d be ab1e to address some of the concerns because of his brief tenure in Labrador·, that hE! rnay hi.'tVe some und,:=!rstanding oF indeed, some oF the privations that pE!Ople have in living in Labrador, but ·- lo and behold - for· somr:~ reason he seems to have a very se1ective memory tAli th r·egard to t..uhat is nE!ecled, and what is necessary, and what is right as programs fot" thE! pE!Op1E! of Western Labrador.

He has completely ignored the transportation issue with regard to the subsidies that WE!rE• in place. He has cornple te1y ignored the request for a method of a greater amount of funding, or a better mE!thod of getting rE!VE!nUE!S From the mining industry in allow:i .nq thE! taxes to bE! co1J.ected frotn the tnining company. 1... 3 fj. May 7, 1990 Vol.

XL.T As a matter of facl: I t..uould su~i9E!St that that j~' pt~obably one of t.:hE! b:i~Jges t.: J"easons t~Jhy . t:.i·H~_,/ camE:! tn t..uith t.hc:•:i.ln :infarnou<:; pay roll tax I l l.1.Ja s pointed out to them that there may be some monies that cou1d be generated, and WI":' know that in WestE!I"n Labrador the mining industry alone wi11 contr·ibutE! about $ 3 rn:i11ion of extra revenues corning out of Western Labrador into the coffer·s of this province. And, of cour·se, thE!n ti·li:!y SE!Ic! f:it to gut particular programs and no t provide a rE!turn on t:he l:ax do11ars.

ThE! cornJJLi . t:ment: l .. hdt theSE! people··- Lht~ tninC!J"s t.hal: work in Western Labrador - and this government Lhen dec:ides to cut the s E! r v.i c e s to t. he r' E:! s :i ci E' n l. s of Western Labrador, although increasing the tax burden upon them. Thr:~y are a1so very disappointed i.n WE!StE!I"I1 l..abt"adOI" about the lack of conCE!rn For· any type of subsidy for regional recreationa1 facilities in the Wabush Recreationa1 Centre. My qooci friend His Worship Ke11y in Wabush has representation representation to Mayo I" Jlktde a'( t.r::•J" thois Administration to al:.Lempl.

Lo qet a subsidy in the operation oF the Wabush Recreational Centre. This is a Regiona1 Recreational Comp1ex, it: provi<h's a tnuch --nt'ed,~cl l"E!CI"eation, I might acid, l:)t'.!Cause of the c1irnatic conditions. It is necessary to have that type of r1?.Creational Faci1ity and they do i.ncleE!cl pt"ovici€:! a bot..ulJnq a11E!Y, a st.~.Jirnrn:ing poo1 and a gyrnnasiurn. And oF course they spend about $700,000 a year on r1:>cn~ation and a big chunk of it goes to Lhe operation of this particular I"E:!CI"eati onal r--ac:i1i.ty. Betn~j a srna]1 cotnrnun:l.t:y they have qu:i.l:.e d. No. 28 (Aftet"noon) I~ 3 4

buJ~ciE!n. NotJJ l:he hon. Mr:~mb1:!1~s on thE! othe1" sidE• of' the House and some ot:hE!I~ pE!Ople, a1"1::' suqg1::'Sl:.iw~ that the I~E!Siclents oF L.abl~i;tciOI" City, th1nough their TotJJn Council I lAJOulcl suspect, a1~e suggesting that they should help pay for this recreational complex. Well, in point of fact, the residents of Labrador City do help pay fo1n the operation of this recreational compJ.ex in thE! fact that thE!Y arE! u s i n g it abo u t 8 0% So about 8 0% of the revenue generated within the complex are paid by Labrador Cil:y residE!nts. MR. CHAIRMAN: Order, please! I want to remind hon.

ME!rnbe I" s that, and I could na~e the Districts, but there are people making comments out of their seats. I hesitate to interrupt the hon.Member. I recognize the han . the Memb~r for Menihek. MR. A. SNOW: Thank you very much Mr.Speaker. I am surE! the hon. ME:'ITibE!r' fol" Ea~11E• IUver, iF he eVE!r ~~OE!S back l':o his seat, wouJ.cl J.ike to be abJ.e to stand and speak and addr,~ss some of the concerns of thE! people o-F Western Labrador, because he too lived there for a brief tenure.

And maybe he would be able to convince his colleagues in Cabinet, who would have some sway ovet~ thE:~ Ministe1~s, the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affair's and, of courSE!, the Minister of Finance. Hopefully maybe he could also convince the Minister of Social Seruices to not Fall asleep in the P1~1:!mier 1 s chair, becc:utSI:! I am su1~e he will be disappointed in him IJJhE!rl he COm1:!S back and r--inds that hE! is aslE!ep in h'is chai.J"..

But 1._35 May '7, 1990 Vol X 1..1 ctnother pal~t~icular· Dep<.irtiTII':!nt l:.hdt L\Je at~E:! dE!bati.nq het"e l:.oclav, ol" discussing hE!I"i'! loclay, and I t.AJoulcl likE:• to haVE! somE! quE:!SL:ion~;; l .. O thC::! han. Minis lE!Y' responsib1e rOl" t:hl:! Department of Works,Services and Transportation. That particular Department, of co u I" s e, L\Ja s a 1 so i. n u o l u E! cl in thE! Travel Subsidy Program in WE!Stel"n Labrador. I do not L\Jant to specifica1ly mention, or go into that too much now. I would rather sp1:!ak rno1~e speciFically about Lh1:! Trans-Labrador H'ighway.

One of th1:! things that l·.his Govel"nment has talk eel c:'lbou L s'.i nee they IJJE:~I"E! i:;!}i~Ctl:!cl, L\li3.S l:hi:=tl:. l.hi?_l/ were goinq to provide an infl~astt~uctul~e. We ev1:•n heat"cl it rTIE!ntionecl hei~E! today that thev WE!rE! going to prouicle a favOI"ab1t:! climatE! for businE!SSE!S to opE!I"atE!, to generate morE! l~i?.VE!nue, rno1"1:• employment into this province. They L\JE! I" E! q o :i. n g L o c I'' e a L e n Favorable at.tnosph1:!1"e r·ol" 11'10r1:• entrepreneurs to invest Lheir ITIOI'lE!Y and cr<::'al:.e n1''ts-J bus:in1::!SS and thus create more empJ.oyment '.in lhis province.

Entrepreneurs did that: in WestE·r·n Lab1~acio1" a1·1ci t.h<:!V wanted this GoVE!I~mn<:!nt to ITii'Li.nl:.ain a highway, the Trans - Labrador HighLAJay, to just clt'an th1'~ snow off about 6 to 10 Kilometres. This government, this particular DE!part:mE!nt, satAJ fit not l~o I"E!I'TIOVE! the snow, although it had been clone for years previous by lhe provincial government. It should have been clone this year.

A srna11 opC::!I"al:.ol", Ol" an opel"atoi-­ oF a srna11 sawrni11 had t.o, t·:ht~ouqh his OL\Jn oxpense, rnatnta:i .n t.hat road, t.o clear the snot,J, <HH:I that par·ticu1al" Mints l:el" comp1e Lely cl:isregarclecl his responsibiliLy in doing il':, even though previous No. 28 (Aftenwon) IDS

govennnE!nts had clone t t:.. Not,u t~hat i.s a v1:!r'y b:ir.3 disappointm,C!nt and it is hypocritical of this Cove1~nrnent to suqges t that they are attempting to provide an infrastructure. or an atmosphere that would create greater opportunities for entrepreneurs to invest money. because that is not exactly what they are doing. When a person invests money in Western Labrador they attempt to make it even harder for him to operate his business and that is completely unfair and irresponsible, I might add, by that particular Department. The snow should be removed From the road notAJ.

ThE!r'E! is sti11 a couple of feet of snow in Labrador. It is interesting to note, on the other side of the reservoir, the Ossokmanuan Lake, that a contractor has removed the snow from the road. Why has he done it? Because he wants an early start on construction on that part of thE! hightAJay. THat is on the eastern side of the Trans-Labrador Highway being constructed over near Churchill Fal1s. On the Western side the province will not spend the monE!Y to clean the snotJJ.

The contractor t.o..Jants an early construction; hE! also tAJants to ensure that the snow is cornpletc:dy plou~Jhed fr'orn the road so that in the spring runoff, it will not do damage to the road and thus cost him more money in matntE!nance this yea1~.

But on this side, of course, this particular Government does not. want to Slc!e an early cons true t:ion, because I do not bE!1iE!VE! that t:.hE!Y really want to see a completion of this particular part of the Trans-Canada Highway, this L36 May 7, 1990 Vol XU Trans- -Labrador l·loiqhtAJay, they 1 n E! r ~~ 1 y LIJ a n t to s ~:! n cl 1.1 p a 1 oi L t:.l ''! b'it: of smoke and rn:il"r·oi"S and mislead and 1nisd:i1~,?ct tho people of this Province. This GovernmE!nt ciOE!S not SE!E! fit to provide an infrastructure, at least in my part of this Province.

They leave that completely to the pr'ivatE! sE•c tcir. completely to the private sE•ctor. If anybody lAJants to ma:intatn thE• road dotJJn in Bul~~~eo, I cHn su1~e t hat t hE! Go v E! t" n rn E:! n t !AI o u J cl be ci o lA! n there. Or incle,~cl iF they t.~.lanh:·cl to plough the snow off the highway that goc:!S past Candc:•l", tho Provincial Government will be ther,~. But: 'in rny D:ist.r':i.ct ·., oil:. :is not done by the Covr:•l"nri'IE!nl:, t·.hj ~-; Provincial Governm,?.nt, it is done by the private SE!Ctor. And that is wrong.

The Government should 1ive up to thE!itn responsibility and not abdicate their r'~ sponsibility, but live up to it and have those roads cleared oF snow in West.ern L.abr'aclol~, and not just: lE!aVE:! jt to the mining companies or tiw construction cornpaniE·s Lo cio Lhe maintenance on this highway. MR. SPEAKER: Order, plc::1ase! The hon. gen l:.1eman' s time :is up. MR. A. SNOW: Thank you very rnuch . MR. REID: Mr. SpeakE!r . MR. SPEAKER : ThE! hon. thE! Member fo1" Cai"boneal". MR . REID: Mr. Speaker.

I bt~iE:•f comments the Four tAJant. t.o ITlab~ a l'eLIJ thj S aftE!I"rlOOn on DE•partment.s this No. 28 ( Af tJ•I"noon) IB6

.. particular Estimates Committee havE! de c:t1 t L\J·.:i. t h . An cl I l~Ja n t to st.a1nt orF by saying that beinq a neL\J ME!ITibeJ" anci havi.ng watched Governments over the past number of years, when I look at what this Government has put forward notJJ in two Budgets, by my hon. colleague the Minister of Finance, I can only say that the course that we are steering has to be one of, hopefully prosperity down the road, and I can honestly say that for a J.ong, long time lAJe aJnE! fina1ly seeing some movement on thE! paint. of GovernmE!nt totJJarcls a sound, fiscal policy for the f>Jnovincr::!.

I bEdi.eve, and I have said it on a nurnbr:"r of occasions, that the present Minister of Finance is taking the approach that has bE!en nE!E!clecl 01~ that lAJas needed to be taken a long time ago in Newfoundland, and it does not seem to me like many previous Finance Ministers really had the guts to do it, or as the han. Members on the other side say 1 inl~estinal fo1n · t~.itude 1 . So I congratulate the Mi~ister of Finance for being upfront. and honest with the people of NetAJ·founclland, and from tA.Jhal~.

I am hecH'inq in my Di.stJnict, most people in ·my District are saying he is clotng a tJJondeinful job, finally somE!One is ·there that does not mind letting the public of N1:!wf ou ndland and Labrador know E:~xactly what is going on when it comes to economics tAiithin the Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear. hear! MR. REID: I oftE!n sit heine ancl lis tE>r1 to rny han. colleagues from the other side make derogatory comments about. our Transportation Minister, and I glH!SS the .TI"anspol"tati.on Department. as a 1~1hole. But.

I am l.37 May 'I, 1990 Vol XU probably one of the happiest Me ITI be I" s on t h J. s s j_ ci r:! o r: L~ h (' H o u :,, (! because of the great ancl clirFerent working relationship that my constituents and myselr have notAJ with the new Minister of Transportation, as it cornpart=!d to the working relationship that rny people or' my constituE.~nts had lAJi.l:h previous Ministers of Transportation. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR.

REID: Just this past lAII:!ek I h<:'ld a LotAJn counciJ. i.n fi"OlTI rny Dj.s Lt":i.ct r:·ol" a clay, they had a nurni::Ho!l" of' t:hinqs to cio, tE!ncleJ" opr:!n.-l.nqs i"lnci diff'elnl:=!nt thinqs, and l..hlo!.IJ lAian L(:•d to see the Minister of Transportation. Well not only, Ml". SpeakE!

In, cl'.icl they get a chance to see the MinisLer oF Transportation, but they me t the Minis'l:!:~r of Hea1l:h, they rnr:!t Lh1:> PlnE!ITiiE!I", they rnet the MJn:i.stE:!r· of Finance, they rnet the Minist(!l" ol' Education, and when they waJked out of h1:!r1:=! on T hut"sclay aft1:•rnoon they just cou1d not br:!1ieve that .. these p1"op1e WE•r"'lo! so aCCio!SSib11? l:.o srnaJ.1 totAJn counci.ls, and to peopJ.e in Newfoundland in general, and they tAJalkecl atAJay quite proud or themselves and quite happy and content. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear. ht::'ar! AN HON. MEMBER : Heretofore unheard of .

MR. f~EID: Not as long as I rernernb1:>r, and I lJJaS rnay01n of' the 1alnqr:•sL COITIITIUnj, l .. y in my District ror seven and a ha1f years. I can assure this House that., on no occasion, tA.Jas I eVE!r tr'E!atecl, Ml". Speake!", to br:~inq ab1E! l~.o g1"!t. in not only t.o No. 28 ( AF l:E!I"noon) f\ 3 7

see one M:inis t1:!r, bu l:. maybE! eight or· tE!n, at any gJVE!I1 ttrnE!. They appreciatE! that, and I appreciatE! it, as well. I have been successful in relation to Works, Services and Transportation, very successful, I guess, in the past COliple of years, to be ablE! to SE!CUre sizeable amounts of money for roads in places like Freshwater, for e x amp 1 e , IJJ here I be 1 i e v e , M r . Speaker, if I am allowed to say this, that the last time a road IAJas pavE•d IAJas back in thE! clays of lHl han. colleagUE! oF mine, the h o n . G e o r· g E!

C 1 a 1n k E:' , IAJ h o IAJ a s o n c e a Speaker of tho House, and I believe that goes back to something like twenty-two or twenty-three years ago. And now this year, I was able to go to the District and announce that paving, and funding for extra paving and new paving was going to be completed in rny area. And I wi11 br:' horwst i.n saying this, Ml". Spr:~ak1:~r, I arn sure I am not the only scd:isfiE!d ME!rnbeln on this side, I am sure there aJne others, but I cha1J.engE! anyonE! to find a more satisf:iec:l Member of this Government than the Member for Carbonear. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hea1n! MR.

REID: I haVE! had a connection, OVE!r the year·s, IAJith J.abour in the P1novince. I suppose I am consider'E!d, and I do not mind being considered a union person, J.ike a lot o·F us, I guess, sitting in the House. I have a number oF fr·J.ends :in Uw Labour· movemE!nt i.n th:is Province v.Jho ar1:!, on a continua} bas :is, ITIE!E!ti.ng 1..1d.th OUI" hon. Min:isb:•r o~ Employment and Labour ReJ.ations . And the L38 May 7, 1990 Uol XLI cornrnt:!nl~.s I a;n hearinq frorn l'.l'w se friends of minE• iH'e bct:~icaJ 1 y comments that this Labour · Mini s b:-r is doing a good job. HE'In door' j s open, thE!

D1:~partment is op1?.n, and with the new Deputy Minister in place now, I arn sure it IAJi11 I?.Vi:!l1 become better, as time progresses. I thank the hon. th1::> Minister of Labour for being open-minded, as well as accessible, to al l those people who demand her attention in t~e Labour rnovE•!flE!n't . I arn sutnE! that before this y10!ar is out, tAJt::O t~.J'i]l see a number of, maybe not so touchy issues as they lAJE!Ine in the pi~E!Vious AciJn:in:i.s'l:.J"at.'.ion Ol" Lhe on(• beForE! that ....

IAJIC' lAJ:ill find t·.hi'lt the Labour movement in NewFoundland is quite hap py with the progress they are making in negotiating with th:is particular Government. I have, as I said, been si.tl: :in~4 for seven and one -ha1F year s beFore coming to the House, as Mayor of the Town of Carbonear. I have gone through, M~. Speaker, thlnE!f:' Min:i.stE :!l"S oF MUilO'ic :ipaJ AFfairs, thr'IC'I:! :in the pr·ov:i.ous Aclmtnts l:l"ations and nOIAJ, d r·oUI" l~h' in this A cl rni n is l' r· at i. on . r he t" ~~ i s no doubt: in my rntnd that he ·.i.~; l:he best . I do not have any problem whatsoeVE!r.

WhE!n I look back and Lh.ink about my y1?.ar as President oF the~ Federation of Mun:ic:ipal:ities and the dealings I had 1..1Jit:h OUI" hon. r e t i r· E! d f r i E! n cl f rom Can cl E'l'' , 1'-11" s . Newhook, and the y1?.ar I spent. 1.1.Ji.th her, t