British Columbia Hansard — Wednesday, May 10, 2006

H0510pm-05

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 38th Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY (HANSARD) Wednesday, May 10, 2006 Afternoon Sitting Volume 11, Number 5 THE HONOURABLE BILL BARISOFF, SPEAKER ISSN 0709-1281

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Iona V. Campagnolo, CM, OBC SECOND SESSION, 38TH PARLIAMENT SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Bill Barisoff EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................Hon. Gordon Campbell Minister of State for Intergovernmental Relations .......................................................................................................... Hon.

John van Dongen Deputy Premier and Minister of Education and Minister Responsible for Early Learning and Literacy...................... Hon. Shirley Bond Minister of Aboriginal Relations and Reconciliation .......................................................................................................Hon. Tom Christensen Minister of Advanced Education and Minister Responsible for Research and Technology ........................................... Hon.

Murray Coell Minister of Agriculture and Lands.......................................................................................................................................................Hon. Pat Bell Attorney General and Minister Responsible for Multiculturalism............................................................................... Hon. Wally Oppal, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ..........................................................................................................................Hon.

Stan Hagen Minister of State for Childcare ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Linda Reid Minister of Community Services and Minister Responsible for Seniors’ and Women’s Issues........................................... Hon. Ida Chong Minister of Economic Development and Minister Responsible for the Asia-Pacific Initiative and the Olympics.................Hon.

Colin Hansen Minister of Employment and Income Assistance ...........................................................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources .......................................................................................................Hon. Richard Neufeld Minister of State for Mining............................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Bill Bennett Minister of Environment and Minister Responsible for Water Stewardship and Sustainable Communities ...............Hon. Barry Penner Minister of Finance.......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Carole Taylor Minister of Forests and Range and Minister Responsible for Housing ............................................................................. Hon.

Rich Coleman Minister of Health ......................................................................................................................................................................Hon. George Abbott Minister of Labour and Citizens’ Services .......................................................................................................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General................................................................................................................................Hon.

John Les Minister of Small Business and Revenue and Minister Responsible for Regulatory Reform............................................ Hon. Rick Thorpe Minister of Tourism, Sport and the Arts .........................................................................................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Minister of Transportation...........................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Kevin Falcon LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition .........................................................................................................................................................Carole James Deputy Speaker ....................................................................................................................................................................................Sindi Hawkins Assistant Deputy Speaker.....................................................................................................................................................................Sue Hammell Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole.................................................................................................................................................

Harry Bloy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly .........................................................................................................................E. George MacMinn, OBC, QC Clerk Assistant.........................................................................................................................................................................................Robert Vaive Clerk Assistant and Law Clerk .......................................................................................................................................................Ian D.

Izard, QC Clerk Assistant and Clerk of Committees ....................................................................................................................................... Craig H. James Clerk Assistant and Committee Clerk ..........................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Sergeant-at-Arms............................................................................................................................................................................. A.A.

Humphreys Director, Hansard Services ...................................................................................................................................................................Jo-Anne Kern Legislative Librarian ..................................................................................................................................................................................Jane Taylor Legislative Comptroller...............................................................................................................................................................................Dan Arbic

Party Standings: Liberal 46; New Democratic 33 ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Abbott, Hon. George (L) .................................................................... Shuswap Austin, Robin (NDP)............................................................................. Skeena Bains, Harry (NDP).................................................................. Surrey-Newton Barisoff, Hon. Bill (L)..........................................Penticton–Okanagan Valley Bell, Hon. Pat (L) .............................................................Prince George North Bennett, Hon.

Bill (L) ............................................................... East Kootenay Black, Iain (L) ............................................................ Port Moody–Westwood Bloy, Harry (L)................................................................................Burquitlam Bond, Hon. Shirley (L).....................................Prince George–Mount Robson Brar, Jagrup (NDP).....................................................Surrey–Panorama Ridge Campbell, Hon.

Gordon (L) .........................................Vancouver–Point Grey Cantelon, Ron (L)..............................................................Nanaimo-Parksville Chong, Hon. Ida (L) .................................................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ...........................................................Burnaby-Edmonds Christensen, Hon. Tom (L) ................................................. Okanagan-Vernon Chudnovsky, Dave (NDP)........................................... Vancouver-Kensington Coell, Hon.

Murray (L) .....................................Saanich North and the Islands Coleman, Hon. Rich (L)...........................................Fort Langley–Aldergrove Conroy, Katrine (NDP) .......................................... West Kootenay–Boundary Coons, Gary (NDP) ....................................................................... North Coast Cubberley, David (NDP)............................................................Saanich South de Jong, Hon.

Michael (L) ...................................Abbotsford–Mount Lehman Dix, Adrian (NDP) .........................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Evans, Corky (NDP).................................................................Nelson-Creston Falcon, Hon. Kevin (L) .......................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale Farnworth, Mike (NDP) ...............................Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Fleming, Rob (NDP) ..............................................................Victoria-Hillside Fraser, Scott (NDP) ..............................................................Alberni-Qualicum Gentner, Guy (NDP).......................................................................Delta North Hagen, Hon. Stan (L) ................................................................ Comox Valley Hammell, Sue (NDP) ................................................... Surrey–Green Timbers Hansen, Hon.

Colin (L) ..................................................Vancouver-Quilchena Hawes, Randy (L).......................................................... Maple Ridge–Mission Hawkins, Sindi (L) ............................................................... Kelowna-Mission Hayer, Dave S. (L) ................................................................

Surrey-Tynehead Hogg, Gordon (L)..............................................................Surrey–White Rock Horgan, John (NDP)......................................................Malahat–Juan de Fuca Horning, Al (L)........................................................... Kelowna–Lake Country Ilich, Hon. Olga (L)...............................................................Richmond Centre James, Carole (NDP).......................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Jarvis, Daniel (L)..................................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Karagianis, Maurine (NDP) ........................................... Esquimalt-Metchosin Krog, Leonard (NDP)......................................................................... Nanaimo Krueger, Kevin (L)..............................................Kamloops–North Thompson Kwan, Jenny Wai Ching (NDP)........................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Lali, Harry (NDP)........................................................................

Yale-Lillooet Lee, Richard T. (L)....................................................................Burnaby North Lekstrom, Blair (L).............................................................. Peace River South Les, Hon. John (L)............................................................... Chilliwack-Sumas Macdonald, Norm (NDP).................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke MacKay, Dennis (L)....................................................

Bulkley Valley–Stikine Mayencourt, Lorne (L).......................................................Vancouver-Burrard McIntyre, Joan (L).................................................West Vancouver–Garibaldi Neufeld, Hon. Richard (L) .................................................. Peace River North Nuraney, John (L).............................................................Burnaby-Willingdon Oppal, Hon. Wally, QC (L).......................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Penner, Hon. Barry (L)...........................................................

Chilliwack-Kent Polak, Mary (L) ....................................................................................Langley Puchmayr, Chuck (NDP)...................................................... New Westminster Ralston, Bruce (NDP) ............................................................. Surrey-Whalley Reid, Hon. Linda (L) ................................................................ Richmond East Richmond, Hon. Claude (L).............................................................

Kamloops Robertson, Gregor (NDP) ................................................Vancouver-Fairview Roddick, Valerie (L).......................................................................Delta South Routley, Doug (NDP)..................................................... Cowichan-Ladysmith Rustad, John (L) ........................................................

Prince George–Omineca Sather, Michael (NDP).........................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ...................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Bob (NDP)..................................................................Cariboo North Simpson, Shane (NDP) ....................................................Vancouver-Hastings Sultan, Ralph (L) ....................................................West Vancouver–Capilano Taylor, Hon.

Carole (L).....................................................Vancouver-Langara Thorne, Diane (NDP) .................................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Thorpe, Hon. Rick (L).......................................................Okanagan-Westside Trevena, Claire (NDP) ..................................................................North Island van Dongen, Hon. John (L)............................................ Abbotsford-Clayburn Whittred, Katherine (L)........................................

North Vancouver–Lonsdale Wyse, Charlie (NDP) .................................................................Cariboo South Yap, John (L)...................................................................Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Clayburn....................................................Hon. John van Dongen Abbotsford–Mount Lehman .......................................... Hon. Michael de Jong Alberni-Qualicum..........................................................................

Scott Fraser Bulkley Valley–Stikine ...........................................................Dennis MacKay Burnaby North ...........................................................................Richard T. Lee Burnaby-Edmonds........................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Willingdon................................................................... John Nuraney Burquitlam.......................................................................................Harry Bloy Cariboo North..............................................................................

Bob Simpson Cariboo South..............................................................................Charlie Wyse Chilliwack-Kent ..................................................................Hon. Barry Penner Chilliwack-Sumas...................................................................... Hon. John Les Columbia River–Revelstoke................................................. Norm Macdonald Comox Valley........................................................................ Hon.

Stan Hagen Coquitlam-Maillardville..............................................................Diane Thorne Cowichan-Ladysmith ................................................................. Doug Routley Delta North ...................................................................................Guy Gentner Delta South ............................................................................. Valerie Roddick East Kootenay....................................................................... Hon.

Bill Bennett Esquimalt-Metchosin.........................................................Maurine Karagianis Fort Langley–Aldergrove ..................................................Hon. Rich Coleman Kamloops.....................................................................Hon. Claude Richmond Kamloops–North Thompson .....................................................Kevin Krueger Kelowna–Lake Country.................................................................. Al Horning Kelowna-Mission ......................................................................

Sindi Hawkins Langley ...........................................................................................Mary Polak Malahat–Juan de Fuca .................................................................. John Horgan Maple Ridge–Mission ................................................................ Randy Hawes Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..................................................... Michael Sather Nanaimo......................................................................................

Leonard Krog Nanaimo-Parksville .....................................................................Ron Cantelon Nelson-Creston .............................................................................Corky Evans New Westminster .................................................................. Chuck Puchmayr North Coast....................................................................................

Gary Coons North Island ...............................................................................Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................Katherine Whittred North Vancouver–Seymour..........................................................Daniel Jarvis Oak Bay–Gordon Head ........................................................... Hon. Ida Chong Okanagan-Vernon......................................................... Hon. Tom Christensen Okanagan-Westside..............................................................Hon.

Rick Thorpe Peace River North.......................................................... Hon. Richard Neufeld Peace River South..................................................................... Blair Lekstrom Penticton–Okanagan Valley .................................................Hon. Bill Barisoff Port Coquitlam–Burke Mountain ............................................Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Westwood.................................................................... Iain Black Powell River–Sunshine Coast ...............................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George North.................................................................... Hon. Pat Bell Prince George–Mount Robson ............................................Hon. Shirley Bond Prince George–Omineca................................................................ John Rustad Richmond Centre......................................................................Hon. Olga Ilich Richmond East........................................................................Hon.

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston...........................................................................John Yap Saanich North and the Islands ............................................ Hon. Murray Coell Saanich South ........................................................................ David Cubberley Shuswap............................................................................Hon. George Abbott Skeena.......................................................................................... Robin Austin Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................... Hon.

Kevin Falcon Surrey–Green Timbers ................................................................Sue Hammell Surrey-Newton............................................................................... Harry Bains Surrey–Panorama Ridge.................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey-Tynehead ....................................................................... Dave S.

Hayer Surrey-Whalley...........................................................................Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock .....................................................................Gordon Hogg Vancouver-Burrard..............................................................Lorne Mayencourt Vancouver-Fairview.............................................................Gregor Robertson Vancouver-Fraserview .................................................Hon.

Wally Oppal, QC Vancouver-Hastings .................................................................Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington.......................................................David Chudnovsky Vancouver-Kingsway ......................................................................Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara ........................................................... Hon. Carole Taylor Vancouver–Mount Pleasant........................................ Jenny Wai Ching Kwan Vancouver–Point Grey ................................................Hon.

Gordon Campbell Vancouver-Quilchena.........................................................Hon. Colin Hansen Victoria–Beacon Hill...................................................................

Carole James Victoria-Hillside ...........................................................................Rob Fleming West Kootenay–Boundary........................................................Katrine Conroy West Vancouver–Capilano...........................................................Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Garibaldi ........................................................Joan McIntyre Yale-Lillooet..................................................................................... Harry Lali

CONTENTS Wednesday, May 10, 2006 Afternoon Sitting Routine Proceedings Page Tributes ....................................................................................................................... .............................................................. 4633 Vancouver Giants Hon. G.

Campbell Introductions by Members ....................................................................................................... .............................................. 4633 Introduction and First Reading of Bills........................................................................................ ......................................... 4634 Crystal Meth Prevention Act, 2006 (Bill M207) J.

Brar Statements (Standing Order 25B) .............................................................................................................................. ............. 4634 Richmond emergency services awards J. Yap Colony Farm Regional Park D. Thorne Industry Training Authority J. Rustad Cowichan Lake Community Forest Cooperative D. Routley Korean Heritage Festival H. Bloy Hepatitis Awareness Month M.

Karagianis Standing Order 81.1............................................................................................................ ..................................................... 4636 Completion of legislative agenda Hon. M. de Jong M. Farnworth Oral Questions................................................................................................................. ......................................................... 4637 Acute care beds at Kelowna General Hospital C. James Hon. G. Abbott K. Conroy Emergency services in health care system D. Cubberley Hon. G.

Abbott Acute care beds at Royal Inland Hospital C. Wyse Hon. G. Abbott Worker safety at service stations C. Puchmayr Hon. M. de Jong M. Sather Private lodges and resorts in provincial parks S. Simpson Hon. B. Penner Reports from Committees........................................................................................................ ............................................... 4641 Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills, second report A. Horning

Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... .......................................... 4641 Education (Learning Enhancement) Statutes Amendment Act, 2006 (Bill 33) J. Horgan Hon. S. Bond G. Coons Hon. M. de Jong D.

Chudnovsky Point of Order (Chair's Ruling) ................................................................................................ .............................................. 4652 Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... .......................................... 4652 Education (Learning Enhancement) Statutes Amendment Act, 2006 (Bill 33) (continued) J. Horgan Hon.

M. de Jong Point of Order (Chair's Ruling) ................................................................................................ .............................................. 4653 Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... .......................................... 4653 Education (Learning Enhancement) Statutes Amendment Act, 2006 (Bill 33) (continued) J. Horgan Hon. M. de Jong D.

Chudnovsky Point of Order (Chair's Ruling) ................................................................................................ .............................................. 4654 Committee of the Whole House................................................................................................... .......................................... 4654 Education (Learning Enhancement) Statutes Amendment Act, 2006 (Bill 33) (continued) D. Chudnovsky Hon. S. Bond N. Macdonald G. Coons A. Dix J. Horgan H.

Bains Second Reading of Bills........................................................................................................ ................................................... 4664 Tenancy Statutes Amendment Act, 2006 (Bill 27) Hon. R. Coleman D. Routley K. Conroy M. Karagianis J. Kwan S. Fraser H. Bains R. Fleming J. Horgan Hon. R.

Coleman Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply............................................................................................................ ................................................... 4681 Estimates: Ministry of Transportation (continued) D. Chudnovsky Hon. K. Falcon S. Fraser C. Wyse Estimates: Ministry of Health (continued) C. Wyse Hon. G. Abbott J. Kwan

4633 WEDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 The House met at 2:03 p.m. Prayers. Tributes VANCOUVER GIANTS Hon. G. Campbell: I have two introductions today — one comment and an introduction. I'm sure members of the Legislature who were watching the news last night will recognize that for the first time ever in their hi story, the Vancouver Giants have won the Western Hockey League championship. Now, I know…. K. Krueger: Go, Blazers, go. Hon. G. Campbell: Could we have some decorum in the House, Mr.

Speaker? [Laughter.] I was going to say that I know they've been led in the past by teams from Kamloops, Cranbrook and Prince George. But I think today we should congratu- late the Giants for the exceptional job they did of sweeping their series and congratulate Gilbert Brule for being awarded the series' most valuable player, and the entire House should get be hind the Vancouver Giants as they go to the Memorial Cup to win the Memorial Cup for British Columbia. Introductions by Members Hon. G. Campbell: It's my pleasure today to intro- duce a group of students from Hollyburn Elementary School.

Accompanying these 24 students are Naomi Chard, Nancy McHarg, Heather Tak, Courtney Campbell and their teacher Cathy Campbell, who also happens to be my sister-in-law. She informs me that they are one of the brightest grade five classes in British Columbia, and they inform me that she is one of the best teachers in Brit- ish Columbia. I hope they will all learn from engaging us and watching us in the House today, and I hope we'll make them welcome. [1405] J. Brar: I have three very special guests from the Sechelt Indian band. We have Chief Stan Dixon, we have Councillor Garry Feschuk, and we have Tom Paul.

I ask the members to please make them feel welcome. Hon. C. Richmond: I have a couple of introduc- tions today. First of all, it gives me a great deal of pleasure to introduce a friend of many, many years: Bernie Smith. He had a long and colourful career with the Vancouver police department. The CBC did a pro- file on him as the whistling policeman. After his first retirement he worked with our first Solicitor General, Angus Ree.

He spent a long time working with former Premier Vander Zalm, and after a second retirement he went to work as the chief of security for Park Royal Mall — a wonderful citizen of British Columbia. Would the House please make him welcome. He is accompanied by his good friend Tom Smith — no relation. Tom is a B.C. author, and he has the distinction of being a member of the Order of Canada for his work with youth in trouble, both as a teacher and as a volunteer worker with the YMCA. Please make Tom very welcome. R.

Austin: Today I would like to introduce three visitors coming from my constituency, visiting from Terrace for the first time here in the precinct. They are Bruce and Lee Cameron and their son Dane. They came down on the ferry from Port Hardy and are spending a few days here not only visiting us here at the Leg. but a l s o c o m i n g t o l o o k a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f V i c t o r i a a s a possible venue for Dane when he finishes school in a couple of years' time. Will the House please make them welcome. J.

McIntyre: I have an introduction today, but I thought, first, I'd like to add my greetings to Naomi Chard, a constituent of mi ne whom I've known for many years. Our children went to school together. Welcome to the House. I would like to introduce three members of the sen- ior team today at the B.C. Innovation Council, a Crown agency. We have with us today Cindy Lum, who is the COO and president of the offi ce of international part- nerships, and she has successfully recently signed an MOU with the People's Republic of China. We also have Dr. David Dolphin, the CEO of the Innovation Council.

He's been a recent winner of the prestigious national Herzberg award that has been accompanied by a million dollars of research funding over the next five years, which is a wonderful triumph for British Columbia. Also, his photodynamic therapy was commercialized by QLT. We're indeed glad to have him with us — and also Hector MacKay-Dunn, a British Columbia biotech lawyer who specializes in that area and is a board member of B.C. Biotech and chair of B.C. Innovation Council. I hope the House will make them all feel welcome today. G.

Gentner: It's a pleasure to introduce to the House today some friends of mine, Janell and Elisha Smirfitt, who want to make it very clear that they re- side in Steveston and not necessarily Richmond. Both are students, and Elisha works part-time at the world- f a m o u s D a v e ' s F i s h a n d C h i p s . A l s o i n t h e g a l l e r y i s my niece Lauren, a grade ten student at Burnett high school and a renowned softball player. Will the House please give them a hearty and warm welcome. Hon. P. Bell: It is with some regret today that I have to inform everyone that tomorrow will be Jake McEwan's last day.

I think Jake knows that; I'm not positive yet. Jake has served this House incredibly well for three years, starting as a research assistant with the

4634 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 government caucus and moving through becoming a ministerial assistant for me, as well as working as an executive assistant for several other ministers. More importantly, he has served both sides of the House very well. He's done a great job serving all con- stituents of British Columbia and has had a real pas- sion for public service. Jake is moving on to the private sector for a period of time, but I am fairly certain that Jake McEwan will come back to the House and be sit- ting on this floor some day.

I would ask the House to please thank him for three years of very hard service. Thanks, Jake. [1410] Mr. Speaker: Hon. members, I'd like to take this opportunity to introduce 28 public servants seated in the gallery, who are participating in a full-day parlia- mentary procedure workshop offered by the Legisla- tive Assembly. This workshop provides a firsthand opportunity for the public service to gain a greater un- derstanding of the relationship between the work of their ministries and how the work affects this Legisla- ture. Would the House please make them welcome.

Introduction and First Reading of Bills CRYSTAL METH PREVENTION ACT, 2006 J. Brar presented a bill intituled Crystal Meth Pre- vention Act, 2006. J. Brar: I move that the bill be read for a first time today. Motion approved. J. Brar: I am pleased to intr oduce the Crystal Meth Prevention Act to the House today. This bill will allow for British Columbia to catch up with most of the prov- inces of Canada in restrictin g the ingredients in crystal meth. The bill will address the huge gap that remains in our policing of the drug crystal meth.

This bill will address the gap we currently have in our legal efforts to put pressure on the small drug labs that are so dan- gerous to our kids and to our community. Police and community leaders in many jurisdictions have identified that if they are to properly address all aspects of illegal drug manufacturing, they must place restrictions on the precursors of these drugs — in this case, crystal meth. By making these precursors less available to those criminals who prey upon our youth, we will leave police forces more able to focus on the prosecution of the large drug labs.

This bill will limit the sale of pseudoephedrine and ephedrine products in British Columbia by providing that these crystal meth prec ursors be sold only from licensed pharmacies. They mu st be maintained in a professional service area of a licensed pharmacy. This bill would restrict the daily amount a customer may receive and would move these multi-entity crystal meth precursors to be sold by a licensed pharmacist and only from the self-selec tion professional product area of a pharmacy.

B y e n a c t i n g t h i s b i l l , w e w o u l d j o i n m o s t o t h e r provinces and many states and assist our police to rid the small-scale producers of this insidious and addic- tive drug. The goal, of course, is to rid crystal meth completely from our communities. With this bill, I en- courage all members of this House to urge the federal government to begin addressing the issue of bulk im- ports of crystal meth precursors. The bill is an impor- tant and valuable step for British Columbia to take. I strongly urge all members to review and support the bill.

I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill M207, Crystal Meth Prevention Act, 2006, in- troduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Statements (Standing Order 25

B) RICHMOND EMERGENCY SERVICES AWARDS J. Yap: I rise to recognize the work of emergency services personnel and volunteers in my community of Richmond. On April 20, I along with the Solicitor Gen- eral and the member for Richmond East attended the fourth annual Richmond Chamber of Commerce 911 awards dinner, which was emceed by Randy Neil of Global News. This event recognizes outstanding men and women in 14 categories, and I'd like to take this op- portunity to talk about some of Richmond's finest citi- zens who make a difference in ensuring public safety.

The Community Safety Award of Valour was pre- sented to Brian Hobbs, an employee of the Steveston Harbour Authority and a volunteer with the Steveston Coast Guard. In 2005 Brian selflessly stepped in to save the life of a suicidal man. Kevin Gray was named Firefighter or Fire Rescue Crew of the Year for his tireless devotion to helping Richmond fire rescue become the best-trained and best- equipped fire department in the country. Cpl. Lamond Ma was named Police Officer of the Year. His quick thinking and selfless actions saved lives in several emergency situations.

The Ambulance Paramedic of the Year award was presented to Bruce Harford for his work ethic and leadership qualities. The Community Safety Volunteer of the Year award was presented to Walter Tyrrell, a volunteer with the Vancouver International Airport's RCMP de- tachment. Walter volunteers with the detachment 28 hours a week, providing invaluable support. [1415] The full listing of award recipients may be seen at the chamber's website: www.richmondchamber.ca. The

WEDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4635 dedication and courage show n by these individuals go well above and beyond the call of duty. They work hard to ensure the safety of our community 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Congratulations to all of this year's winners. I ask all members to join me in saying a big thank-you to all of the emergency services personnel who make com- munities across B.C. safer for all residents. COLONY FARM REGIONAL PARK D. Thorne: In the heart of Coquitlam sits one of the lower mainland's best-kept natural secrets.

In fact, many people driving on the Lougheed Highway through Coquitlam have likely passed by it without even knowing. Tucked am id the highways and the housing developments is Colony Farm Regional Park, an island of grassy fields , forest marsh and riverside habitat that is home to a wide variety of plants and animals. It is also the site of an upcoming open house when you can learn more about the park, its fascinating his- tory and some of the exciti ng projects being done by park volunteers.

On Saturd ay, May 13, everyone is invited to drop in between 1 p.m. and 4 p.m. for some firsthand experience of the magic of Colony Farm Re- gional Park. Amongst the activities you can partake in, you could take a tour of a recently enhanced wetland. You can learn more about the herons, hawks and other wildlife that live in the park. You might even be lucky enough to help construct a new bat box so that resident bats in the park will be provided with new roosting and rearing habitat.

Volunteers will explain the differ- ences between native plants and invasive plants — differences that affect not only our fragile environment but our pocketbooks, big time. There will be ongoing to urs of the park, and the Colony Farm community gardeners will also be selling flower and vegetable seedlings to help raise funds to restore the heritage buildings that remain on the site. That's this coming Saturday at 1 p.m. I hope to see some members of the House join me there. INDUSTRY TRAINING AUTHORITY J.

Rustad: I rise today to speak about an initiative that is really helping to f ill the critical need in commu- nities in my riding of Prince George–Omineca. The economy in communities like Prince George, Vander- hoof and Fort St. James has turned a corner. After a decade of people looking for jobs, jobs are now search- ing for people. In my riding alone, we have hundreds of new opportunities in industries like forestry, mining and construction. The push is on to find more skilled people to fill them.

That's why our government took steps two years ago to build a more efficient and effec- tive system of training people in the skills and trades that are so much in demand now. Today we know without a doubt that those efforts have paid off. After just two years, the Industry Train- ing Authority we created to meet the demand for trades training is reporting incredible results. The ITA has certified 2,900 tradesworker s in the last year alone. There is an 80-percent increa se in the number of train- ees — from 14,676 to 26,525.

Pa rticularly encouraging is the increase in the number of youth participating in trades training through high school programs. That has grown to more than three times what it was — from only 861 students in 2004 to 3,259 today. Most importantly, the work of the ITA has helped to almost double the number of apprentices working in our province. As of March 31, 2006, there are 26,529 registered apprentices in B.C. compared with 14,676 apprentices when the ITA wa s created in 2004. We're meeting the skills challenge.

As B.C.'s economy keeps booming, our government is committed to supporting the ITA, our colleges, universities and public schools so we can continue to meet the challenge in the future. COWICHAN LAKE COMMUNITY FOREST COOPERATIVE D. Routley: Today I rise to share with the members a few words about the Cowichan Lake Community Forest Cooperative.

So many of our small communities on the coast have been challenged by huge upheavals in their core industry and have struggled to come to terms with that. [1420] Although this is a very difficult process for the people of British Columbia in the coastal communities, some people are really stepping up to that plate. The Cowichan Lake Community Forest Cooperative is one of those or- ganizations that encourages community engagement in the process of harvesting, community engagement in the oversight of forest practices and community engagement in terms of building new partnerships.

We have suffered a huge loss of mills on the coast, and our communities are calling out for a voice in the direction that our forest policies take. The Cowichan Lake Community Forest Cooperative has been there to establish the new kinds of partnerships that the gov- ernment has called for and that the people of British Columbia have called for. The forest cooperative has partnered with the Didi- daht and Pacheedaht people on skills training agree- ments and fibre supply agr eements. These are very positive partnerships that are creating new opportuni- ties and new products and potential new markets.

But they need us to stand behind them. They tell me, when I m eet with them, that a 1- percent gain in our share of the value-added product market in the United States would result in a $1 billion increase in our provincial domestic product. Those are huge numbers, and there are huge opportunities that w e n e e d t o s t e p u p a n d g r a s p . T h a t p a r t n e r s h i p i s standing ready to help us do that.

Future goals for the Cowichan Lake Community Forest Cooperative: to convert their licence from a temporary licence to a permanent land-based licence so that they can have the certainty of fibre supply that's

4636 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 required for them to suppl y the customers that they know are out there, and ongoing skills development and economic development in the community. I'd like all of us to celebrate that. KOREAN HERITAGE FESTIVAL H. Bloy: As we all know, British Columbia is blessed to be home to people from many cultures and diverse backgrounds. My ridi n g o f B u r q u i t l a m i s t h e hub of one of the most dynamic multicultural groups in this province, our Korean Canadian community.

Right along North Road you see firsthand the dozens upon dozens of businesses owned by Korean Canadi- ans catering to both their community and the public at large. A lasting legacy from the Korean community is their efforts to build the Ko rean war memorial in Bur- naby. This project is spearheaded by the Hanin Heri- tage Society, Mr. Ron Suh and the Korea Veterans As- sociation. It will pay homage to those British Columbi- ans who served and died during the Korean War, and it will be completed later next year.

To commemorate their history, they are celebrating the fifth anniversary of the Korean Heritage Day Festi- val. This year's festival will take place on June 17 at the Town Centre Stadium in Coquitlam. Thanks to the efforts of Yonah Martin, the festival organizer, and h u n d r e d s o f v o l u n t e e r s , I a m s u r e t h i s y e a r ' s f e s t i v a l will build on last year's success of over 15,000 people. As usual, the festival promises to be filled with ex- citement.

In addition to nearly 400 performers staging traditional Korean music and dance and tae kwon do demonstrations, the cho-won food fair will tempt the taste buds with an authentic Korean barbecue, kimchi bowls and other mouth-watering favourites. I would like to invite my colleagues here and all British Columbians to help our province's Korean community celebrate their proud achievements and culture and join me next month in my community for the fifth Korean Heritage Day Festival on June 17. HEPATITIS AWARENESS MONTH M.

Karagianis: May is Hepatitis Awareness Month, and this serves as a grea t opportunity to increase awareness and educate the pu blic on the impacts of hepatitis. When I was young, I actually contracted hepatitis. In those days there was not the same level of understanding about the long-term effects or the vari- ous types of hepatitis. In fact, there are many different viruses under the hepatitis category — A, B, C, D and E. All of them cause inflammation to the liver, and many can cause chronic conditions. Early detection is key to avoiding damage to the liver and transmitting the virus to others.

Hepatitis C is a particular health hazard and health concern. An estimated 250,000 Canadians are infected with this virus, many of whom are unaware that they have the disease. Over one-third of those individuals live here in British Columbia — an estimated 65,000 British Columbians — with about 1,500 new infections occurring annually. Close to 60 percent of those cases are people aged 40 to 59 — people who should be in their peak earning and family -raising years.

Instead, many of their years are spent with increasing disabili- ties because of this disease. [1425] It can take decades for symptoms to manifest, and between 20 and 30 percent of chronic infections pro- gress to cirrhosis, liver failure and liver cancer. Since 1998, Health Canada has made a continued commitment to hep C prevention. They've renewed the hep C prevention support and research program, which will allow important work to continue on hep C until the new Canadian public health agency is estab- lished and a long-term strategy is developed.

I don't know if I will suffer long-term liver prob- lems in the future. I know that I can't give blood, and I cannot be an organ donor as a result of the disease, which I regret very much. But very fortunately for me, I can count my blessings. I didn't contract hep C. Please help me celebrate Hepatitis Month here in Canada. Standing Order 81.1 COMPLETION OF LEGISLATIVE AGENDA Hon.

M. de Jong: I rise pursuant to Standing Order 81.1 and want to advise the House that following ex- tensive discussions with the Opposition House Leader, we have managed to come to an agreement regarding the completion of business for the balance of the cur- rent sitting, which is ending on Thursday, May 18. That

schedule will see all of the estimates and bills presently on the order paper completed except for Bill 23, which is the Public Inquiry Act, and Bill 32, the Adult Guardianship and Personal Planning Statutes Amendment Act, 2006. Those bills obviously have been the subject of comments by stakeholders and interested parties, and the government believes it would be beneficial to hear further from those with views. Those two bills will not be forthcoming or pro- ceeding this session. The Opposition House Leader has also been advised that given the concerns expressed by the freedom-of- information and privacy commissioner with respect to

section 9 of Bill 30, the Miscellaneous Statutes Amend- ment Act (No. 2), 2006, the government doesn't intend to proceed with that proposed amendment to the FOI Act. [Applause.] Well, I don't know what to do next, Mr. Speaker. Priority for the government has been to ensure that ample time is available for the Legislature to consider and debate Bill 34, the legi slation around the children and youth representative. I believe that the Opposition House Leader and I have settled on a

schedule that will allow us to do that. I am, as always, obliged to him for the time he has taken in working with me to settle on a

schedule that I believe serves the interests of this chamber and the people of B.C.

WEDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4637 M. Farnworth: I just want to concur with my col- league the Government House Leader that the discus- sions have yielded a result that allows for the disposi- tion of bills, which are clearly very much in the public interest, in a timely fashion. It also allows for legisla- tion, which the opposition has believed to be requiring of further discussion and inputs, to be carried over. I think that is something that will serve this House and this province well.

It is also important to note that this session is the first full session on the new parliamentary calendar with a full opposition. It's important that the calendar h a s r e m a i n e d i n t a c t , t h a t w e h a v e b e e n a b l e t o d e a l with business in an orderly fashion, and I think that speaks well for the future. [1430] Oral Questions ACUTE CARE BEDS AT KELOWNA GENERAL HOSPITAL C. James: Here we are, another day and another hospital in crisis. We saw on the weekend, on Sunday, that it was Vernon general hospital, and today it's Kelowna General Hospital.

All morning the opposition has been getting firsthand reports about the fact that Kelowna General is bursting at the seams. At 10:40 this morning the hospital declared another code purple. The hospital is way over capacity, and the staff say it's the worst it has ever been. Urgent action is obviousl y needed. My question to the Minister of Health is: what directions has the minis- ter given to his staff and to the IHA to actually relieve the crisis in Kelowna? Hon. G. Abbott: I thank the opposition leader for her question.

Obviously, em ergency room services are a vital part of health care delivery in the province. In the case of Kelowna General Hospital, I'm glad to ad- vise the member that I met just a few days ago with medical staff at Kelowna General Hospital, including a meeting of well over an ho ur with emergency depart- ment physicians and nurses and so on. I think every- one is working at Kelowna General and at other hospi- tals towards relieving congestion in emergency rooms. I'm also glad to advise the member that the code purple that was produced at Kelowna General Hospital this morning was the product of two….

Well, I'm not glad to report this. The co de purple was a consequence of two serious automobile accidents. But I am pleased to report that the code purple was lifted within an hour after those difficult circumstances had been dealt with by the very capable emergency room physicians and nurses at Kelowna General Hospital. Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Opposition has a sup- plemental. C. James: We would agree that the staff are very capable and that they're working with impossible situations. What they're missing is leadership from this government to solve the problem.

We saw a code purple at Kelowna General Hospital just two months ago, and we heard from the Health Minister that it was a periodic spike. The Interior Health region said it was a rare event. Well, we know that the Health Minister is wrong. According to Kelowna General Hospital's administrator Rick Riley, the hospital has been far over its maximum capacity every day for the last month. Doctors in Kelowna are demanding that the gov- ernment fund 40 new acute care beds. Will the minister commit to doing just that? Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member. Hon. G.

Abbott: The designation "code purple" is reflective of a serious situat ion that's occurring in an emergency room department. I've just advised the member that the code purple that occurred today in Kelowna General Hospital was the consequence of two serious automobile accidents. That's unfortunate. But again, in respect of that si tuation, the code purple was lifted within an hour after it had been put in place. One of the things we're doing…. We're doing many things, and I hope we have an opportunity to talk at length about this today.

I think that among the things we're doing — and the member may know about this…. Recently we had a meeting involving emergency room doctors, emergency room nurses, the Hospital Employ- ees Union, paramedics and health care administrators from all of the regions. All of those groups are commit- ted to working together to find solutions to have better, more timely service in ERs. The one group that doesn't appear to be a part of that working together is this group across the aisle here. I'm disappointed in that, but none of that will prevent the rest of us from working together to find solutions. [1435] Mr.

Speaker: Leader of the Opposition has a fur- ther supplemental. C. James: It's taken a very long time, and finally this government has decided to listen to health care providers, who've been telling them that there's a crisis for the last five years. Lifting a code purple does not mean that overcrowding goes away. It does not take away the problem. One of the reasons there is a crisis in Kelowna is because this government closed beds in Vernon, Osoyoos, Summerland, Princeton and Penticton.

Be- cause they shut down so many beds and broke their promise around building 5,000 long-term care beds, we see Kelowna General missing acute care beds to admit patients. When will the minister quit brushing off the crisis, admit that they didn't buil d the beds they needed to,

4638 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 that they cut too many be ds, and actually solve the problem? Hon. G. Abbott: I'm sure in the moments ahead I'll have plenty of opportunities to highlight the ways in which we are moving very constructively to resolve this situation. If you want to go to the heart of the chal- lenges we face, it's not around adding more beds. I know that the folks over here say that's the magic bul- let. A bed is a steel frame with a mattress on it until you have a health care professional, a health care pro- vider who can serve the patient who's in that bed. Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Continue, minister. Hon. G. Abbott: The NDP may want to reflect on this very sobering statisti c. Currently, there are 772 nurse vacancies within the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority. Within the Fraser Health Author- ity, there are 321 nurse vacancies. They cannot find nurses to fill those spaces. Why is that? Could it be because that former govern ment didn't add a single nursing space to B.C.'s colleges and universities dur- ing the 1990s? Interjection. Hon. G. Abbott: That's absolutely right. They did not. We've reversed that.

We've added 2,511 — a 62- percent increase — and we're very proud of that. K. Conroy: Well, let's talk about this statistic — that hospitals in the interior are consistently over capacity, so they can't deal with trag ic multiple accidents. That shouldn't be happening. Doct ors are frantically trying to dislodge patients so that…. In a code purple situa- tion, they desperately need the acute care beds. The minister still denies he has anything to do with it. Now a hospital administrator — the administrator — has admitted that bad days are a norm in Kelowna. Doctors say they need 40 acute care beds.

Will the min- ister commit today that he needs to get those beds up and running and get patients out of the hallways in the Okanagan? Hon. G. Abbott: I suppose that sanctimony can be a very fine thing when one has the evidence and argu- m e n t s t o b a c k i t u p . T h i s i s a g o v e r n m e n t o v e r h e r e that during their term of of fice cut 3,334 beds in this province. This was the government over here that dur- ing the 1990s cut the number of acute care beds by 23 percent. Now, suddenly, they are the heroes here, de- manding acute care beds as the magic bullet to resolve that problem.

Well, why didn't they fire any of those magic bullets back in the 1990s? [1440] Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members, members. Members on both sides, the Minister of Health has the floor. Hon. G. Abbott: I am pleased to report, Mr. Speaker…. These are some numbers that were just put together yesterday after a good deal of work by the Ministry of Health. I'm pleased to advise that, for ex- ample, we have seen a 66-percent increase in palliative care beds. We have seen a 29.4-percent increase in men- tal health community beds. We've seen an 18.8-percent increase in addiction treatment beds.

Overall, we see an increase of 2,040 beds — a 5-percent increase in the beds in this province. Mr. Speaker: The member for West Kootenay– Boundary has a supplemental. K. Conroy: Yet we still have code purples in the main hospital in the interior. Patients in the Okanagan don't need just lip service from this minister, sanctimo nious or not. They need action. They need the government to acknowledge the crisis created by the bed cuts in their government. They need to know that the interi or's largest hospital is ca- pable of making it through a month without declaring code purple.

They need to know they aren't going to be prematurely discharged from a bed to make up for the cuts this government made. How many more days does Kelowna General need to be in absolute overload before this govern- ment wakes up to the reality that this government has created? Hon. G. Abbott: I think this debate and this atten- tion to the issue are useful, in the respect that it does provide a real distinction between that side of the House and this side of the House. That side of the House talks. Perhaps it's in sanctimonious and hypo- critical terms, but they talk.

This is the side that takes action to deal with the problem. I'm pleased to advise the member, in relation to Kelowna General Hospital specifically, that to assist with the situation in the central Okanagan, Interior Health recently opened up 115 assisted-living units in that community. They've recently opened 20 new resi- dential care beds at KGH and will be adding 280 more residential care beds in the central Okanagan over the next two years. EMERGENCY SERVICES IN HEALTH CARE SYSTEM D. Cubberley: The Minister of Health often likes to talk about his record in health care.

Yesterday we learned of two new firsts that he could add to his rep- ertoire. The first-ever national study of emergency room operations by the Canadi an Agency for Drugs and Technologies in Health reveals that B.C. is far and away the national leader on two important measures of hospital emergency room operation — the leader.

WEDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4639 First, 82 percent of emergency room directors in B.C. said that overcrowding was a major problem in 2004 and 2005, and that's one- third above the national average. Now, that's an achievement. Second, 94 per- cent — that's quite resolved — of ER directors in Brit- ish Columbia found overcrowding in their emergency departments at least once a week, compared to just 35 percent nationally. Those are achievements the minister may not wish to crow about, but here's a finding that confirms some- thing he likes to keep buried.

The study also revealed that 85 percent of ER directors believe that lack of beds is the major cause of overcrowded hospitals — lack of beds. My question, then: does th e minister still deny that closing one in five hospital beds since 2001 precipitated the deplorable conditions in hospital emergency rooms across B.C.? [1445] Hon. G. Abbott: I'm glad the member asked that question. I'm glad to report to him the difference be- tween 2001 and 2005, when we took office.

Over that period, palliative care beds up 54; resi- dential care and assisted-living beds up 1,509; mental health community beds up 1,451; addiction treatment beds up 164 — for a total of incremental new beds of 2,040 since we took office. The member doesn't really do justice to the report that was brought out yesterday. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised by that, but I want to just offer this quote from the author of the report. I think the report is pretty fair and balanced. It points to emergency room chal- lenges in every jurisdiction across the nation.

This is a study that is based on surveys of the emergency room department directors, so there is an element of subjectiv- ity about it. Mr. Speaker: The member for Saanich South has a supplemental. D. Cubberley: It seems to be lost on the minister and on members on that side of the House that we are talking about beds you can be admitted to in a hospital. We're talking about acute care beds. You cut 1,300…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. D. Cubberley: One in five…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: We listened to the answer. Let's listen to the question, please. Member, continue. D.

Cubberley: You cut 1,300 acute care beds, one in five, and you don't want to own your own history. Why aren't you proud of that part of your record? Health care providers across British Columbia are trying to tell this minister and this government that overcrowding is systemic and that more beds are key to the cure, and they don't want to hear. How can you not hear statements like thes e: "Adding bed capacity is the key to addressing overcrowding…." Mr. Speaker: Can the member pose the question, please. Pose the question. D. Cubberley: "Adding capacity is the key to ad- dressing overcrowding and wait times.

We need more beds in the hospital so that patients can be moved out of the emergency room." Mr. Speaker: Member, please pose the question. D. Cubberley: Let me just ask this simple ques- tion. A simple question — no rhetoric. Does the Min- ister of Health agree with the key findings of the re- port that the top two causes of the ER crisis are a lack of admitting beds and a lack of acute care beds? A simple question. Hon. G. Abbott: I genuinely appreciate the simple question. It matches up very nicely with the simple answers we so often hear from the opposition as well, so thank you for that.

I know that those who have been awaiting the quote from Dr. Brian Rowe, the author of the report, are sitting on pins and need les since the last exchange. I will offer that now so that I'm sure to get it in. What Dr. Rowe says is: "What this study shows is that emer- gency department overcrowding is a challenging and systemwide problem with no simple solutions." We know that in that report, British Columbia and Alberta are identified as two that have ER challenges. All provinces have ER challenges, but B.C. and Alberta are noted as being two of them.

Among the things we should note from that is th at B.C. and Alberta are the two fastest-growing jurisdictions in this country. We also know that ER visits are triple what one would expect from that po pulation growth. Though there is an issue, there is a challenge, our government is working with doctors and nurses and paramedics to meet that problem and to prevent that problem. ACUTE CARE BEDS AT ROYAL INLAND HOSPITAL C. Wyse: Kamloops has seen a drastic 24-percent cut to long-term care beds, with 120 beds eliminated since 2002.

Currently, it is estimated that 15 percent of the acute care beds at Royal Inland Hospital are occu- pied by seniors waiting for a long-term care placement. [1450] Surgeries are being cancelled regularly because there are no available acute care beds. The ER gets overloaded because there are no acute care beds. What doesn't the minister understand? Why can't he see the connection between bed cuts and crises in the ERs?

4640 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 Interjection. Mr. Speaker: Member. Does the member for Cariboo South want to finish his question? C. Wyse: Mr. Speaker, I finished my question. I wasn't interrupted by the noise from across the room at all. Hon. G. Abbott: I think before we leave the issue of the recent report…. There is a person who is not al- ways an admirer of mine, but she is someone who I respect enormously, and I do respect what she had to say on this situation. Debra McPherson, the president of the B.C.

Nurses Union, when asked about the report yesterday said this: "There is no one answer to this issue. We have an aging population, a high utilization of the emergency for a lot of reasons. There is no quick band-aid here." I think that helps to set our understanding of the challenges that we face. In terms of Royal Inland Hos- pital, I don't know what period the member is speaking from. Certainly, there were a lot of broken promises by the former government in relation to Royal Inland Hospital.

I can tell the member that we have invested almost $28 million since 2001 in the emergency room at Royal Inland Hospital. We have invested a comparable amount in 44 beds in the new neuropsychiatric centre at Royal Inland Hospital, and many other investments as well. WORKER SAFETY AT SERVICE STATIONS C. Puchmayr: Yesterday we learned that another gas station attendant had been injured while trying to stop a theft of gas. It happened in the Surrey-Delta border. In this case the attendant tried to stop the driver. As the driver pull ed away, the attendant was hit by the vehicle, thrown and injured.

The Solicitor General is on record as stating that he thinks these types of incidents are rare, and he does not think that regulations need to be tightened to prevent future incidents. Does the Minister of Labour support the position of the Solicitor General? Hon. M. de Jong: I am obliged to the member for raising the question today in particular, because it is an opportunity to remind all employees that safety is paramount. They need to know that. They need to gov- ern themselves and their action s with that in mind.

It's also an opportunity to say to employers and remind them — as WorkSafe has, and as we will continue to — that where a theft occurs, th at is not the responsibility of the employee. So safety first, and where situations arise, that is not something that should be visited upon the employee. Secondly, and to the member's observations, there are some things we are doing now. We have provided notification to over 1,400 retail fuel outlets of what their obligations are as employers.

We have also stepped up random inspections to ensure that those employers are conducting themselves in fu ll accordance with the oc- cupational health and safe ty regulations and the Em- ployment Standards Act. Mr. Speaker: The member for New Westminster has a supplemental. C. Puchmayr: I t i s s a d t h a t t h i s g o v e r n m e n t r e - pealed the legislation that made it mandatory to post employment standards regulations in places of em- ployment. Many places of employment don't even have the WorkSafe regulations available to employees.

The recent incident in Surrey-Delta is strikingly similar to the Grant DePatie case in Maple Ridge. Over a year after that tragic loss it was found that that gas station was still in violation, with workers working alone. It is clear that the current system isn't working. This government needs to take steps now. [1455] Will the minister agree to entertain legislation to ensure that there is proper action taken so that our young people and our people can work safely in that industry? Hon.

M. de Jong: Again, to the member, who I think knows, because we have had discussions in the past, we are in the midst of — in addition to the other work that I related just a few moments ago — explor- ing a range of options that relate to things like prepay or pay-at-the-pump. That work is ongoing. Obviously, the circumstance last night that he related to the House and additional similar circumstances raise the urgency. We are conducting our analysis with all speed possible and hope to be in a position to report back, if not to this House, then publicly as soon as possible. M.

Sather: Well, gentle reminders to employers and employees, no matter how eloquently put by the minis- ter, are not going to cut it. The minister says, "We're consulting; we're looking," but nothing has happened. It's been over a year since the DePatie case oc- curred. We're looking now at gas prices soaring. That's another impetus for unscrupulous people to be in- volved in this kind of activity. The regulations clearly aren't working. I don't unde rstand what evidence this government needs to act on this case.

When is this minister going to put some legislation forward — it's required here — or at least enforce the regulations that are in place? Hon. M. de Jong: It's because I know the member is sincere in raising the issues that I don't want to chastise him for an either-or approach to the subject. It may not be a legislative solution. It may be a case of amending some of the existing regulatory provisions that are out there.

That's what we're tryi ng to explore so that what we have is a response to a situation that isn't built around simply attracting a headline to say something has happened but doing something that actually makes a difference. We're approaching it with all the haste we

WEDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4641 can. I understand that the member is concerned. All members are concerned. Again, to the employees who are out there working i n t h i s f i e l d : w h a t t h e y n e e d t o u n d e r s t a n d i s t h a t safety is first. When confro nted by criminal activity, their first obligation is to ensure their own safety and then to contact the proper authorities to investigate. PRIVATE LODGES AND RESORTS IN PROVINCIAL PARKS S. Simpson: In a 1998 letter the Premier, when he was then opposition leader, made the following comment.

He said: "When government does its business behind closed doors, people will invariably believe that government has something to hide. Secrecy feeds distrust and dishonesty; openness builds trust and integrity." The Western Canada Wilderness Committee filed a freedom-of-information request regarding government policy for putting private resorts and lodges in B.C. parks on October 5 of last year. The government identi- fied some 2,400 pages of documents that were relevant to that request and tried un successfully to charge the group $750 for the related information.

For six months this government flouted its own law and simply refused to release the information until it was ordered to do so by the Information and Privacy Commissioner. It then provided just 19 of those 2,400 pages — 19 pages of heavily censored e-mails and an unrelated report. My question to the Minist er of Environment is: why won't this government — as was promised by the Pre- mier to be the most open, accountable and transparent in Canada — release these documents? Hon. B. Penner: I can look into the matter that the member just raised.

But it is no secret that the Ministry of Environment and the B.C. government are interested in implementing a consistent policy towards fixed-roof accommodation for B.C. parks. Over the years it's been rather ad hoc, and that's why in the 1990s we saw the former NDP government, for example, approve a new lodge in Kokanee Glacier Park. [1500] I don't know if the members opposite now are of the view that that lodge should be torn down and people shouldn't have that recreational opportunity.

I don't know if the member for Yale-Lillooet dis- agrees that there should be a lodge opportunity in Manning Park and that peop le should get a chance to go and use the swimming pool or use the tennis courts. I know the critic has made disparaging comments i n t h e p a s t a b o u t p e o p l e e x e r c i s i n g i n t h a t w a y , b u t frankly right now those facili ties exist. People by the hundreds — and over the years, thousands — have taken advantage of more than 160 different forms of fixed-roof accommodation in British Columbia parks.

Frankly, this side of the House is interested in getting more people into our parks so they can get fit, get ac- tive and enjoy the great outdoors. [End of question period.] Reports from Committees A. Horning: Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to pre- sent the second report of the Select Standing Commit- tee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Stand- ing Orders and Private Bills. I move that the report be read and received. Motion approved. Law Clerk: May 10, 2006: Mr.

Speaker, your Select Standing Committee on Parliamentary Reform, Ethical Conduct, Standing Orders and Private Bills begs leave to report as follows: that the revision of the Union of British Columbia Municipalities Act prepared pursuant to the Statute Revision Act and at- tached hereto is approved, and the committee recom- mends that it be brought into force. All of which is respectfully submitted. A. Horning, Chairman. A. Horning: Hon. Speaker, I ask for leave of the House to permit the moving of a motion to adopt the report. Leave granted. A. Horning: I move that the report be adopted. Motion approved.

Orders of the Day Hon. M. de Jong: In this chamber I call committee stage debate of Bill 33. In

Section A, Committee of Supply, for the information of members, we shall begin with the Ministry of Transp ortation to be followed, ultimately, by the Ministry of Health. [1505] Committee of the Whole House EDUCATION (LEARNING ENHANCEMENT) STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2006 The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill 33; S. Hawkins in the chair. The committee met at 3:08 p.m. On

section 1. J. Horgan: As we begin the discussion of committee stage of Bill 33, I have a series of questions, and I also have amendments that I will be moving as we proceed through the legislation. I've provided the minister with those amendments, as well as the table officers. With respect to

section 1, could the minister give us an indication what the substi tution of "means a school,

4642 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 including a distributed learning independent school" means? Introductions by Members The Chair: Members, if the House would indulge me, I have an introduction to make. Visiting the Legisla- ture today and in the gallery are about 67 grade seven students from Dr. Knox Middle School. They're here with Ms. Ashman, Mr. Colpitt and Mr. Mastromonaco and other adults that are al so chaperoning with them. I would ask the House to please join me in making them welcome. Debate Continued Hon. S.

Bond: Before I answer the question, I would like to just introduce the staff that I have in the House with me today. They are a fantastic team, as we have in the Min- istry of Education. To my right is Deputy Minister of Edu- cation Emery Dosdall. To my left is Rick Davis, who is our superintendent, liaison, and just behind us is Peter Owen, lead director of the governance department. [1510] In terms of a "distributed learning independent school," the definition would be an independent school that offers instruction that uses the distributed-learning principle. J.

Horgan: Would that independent school be within the borders of British Columbia? Could it be elsewhere in Canada? Could it be in an international location? Hon. S. Bond: Independent schools in British Co- lumbia. J. Horgan: With them, with respect to the student record referred to in

section 1(1)(c), a " 'student record' means a record of information in written or electronic form in respect of a studen t, but does not include a record prepared by a person if that person is the only person with access to the record." Could the minister confirm that the student record in a distributed-learning context is held by what institution? Would it be the institution offering the course? Would it be the institution where the individual is enrolled? Hon. S. Bond: Where the student is enrolled. G.

Coons: I was just wondering how you see the records being shared between the independent schools and public schools, as we move along. Hon. S. Bond: Well, it would be nothing other than what happens currently. If a student takes a course in one school and transfers to another, that information would be transferred back to the school where the stu- dent is currently enrolled. G. Coons: What about the funding? Is it going to be per-pupil funding? How will that work if a student in a public school is taking two or three different distributed-learning courses from other institutions? Hon. S.

Bond: In fact, the funding would follow the student for that particular course. If a student en- rolled in one secondary school would like to take a distributed-learning course from a second school, the funding for that course only would simply go to the second school. J. Horgan: Following the minister's response, then, my understanding is that funding is not on a per- course basis in British Columbia. How, then, would funding that is provided on a block basis to a school district be distributed to an independent school that's only providing distributed learning? Hon. S.

Bond: In grades ten, 11 and 12, if a student is taking a distributed-lear ning program, that funding will be by course. J. Horgan: Is that the current practice? [1515] Hon. S. Bond: There is no change to the way we fund schools in the province of British Columbia. There will be a change to how we support distributed- learning courses. J. Horgan: That's, I guess, the point I want the min- ister to help me get to and better understand.

If dis- tricts are provided with fu nding based on a per-pupil formula and now we're introducing funding on a per- course basis with respect to distance learning or dis- tributed learning, then how is that course paid for? Does the district have to reimburse the ministry for that portion of the course load that's not being received in the terrestrial school, an d then provide that money to the distributed learning in stitution? Or is the money provided directly from the parents of that child? How does the money go from where it started to where it will end up? Hon. S.

Bond: The funding pattern will continue to flow to schools the way that it does now, except for students who are enrolled as distributed-learning stu- dents. For those students, their courses would be funded by course. Those dollars would be sent to the enrolling school. J. Horgan: Are those funds sent from the ministry, or are they sent from the di strict where the student is enrolled? I'm just not clear. This is a departure from past practice, and I think it's important that we under- stand how it is that resources are now going to be channelled to this new entity. Hon. S.

Bond: The money will flow from the minis- try. I think the point of the program is to allow stu- dents to have choice and opportunity and to expand those horizons. So we are go ing to adjust the way that

WEDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4643 we provide the funding for distributed-learning stu- dents only. It will be only in grades ten, 11 or 12. We'll be able to actually allow students — imagine that — to be able, if they're distributed-learning students, to choose courses they would like to take. In fact, we will fund those to the school in which they are enrolled. J. Horgan: I hope it isn't too bothersome for the minister that I'm asking so me questions about an im- portant piece of legislation that's changing the way we do business in the province.

It's an appropriate thing for me to do, and it's appropriate for her to answer the questions so that we can better understand what this is — not celebrate choice, but to figure out why we're debating this

section of the bill. My question is: is this…? Interjections. The Chair: Members, please. J. Horgan: Is this, to attribute this section, fulfilling the throne speech commitment to a virtual school? Hon. S. Bond: Yes. This is absolutely one of the commitments that we've made. We want to see ex- panded choice in this prov ince. We've heard from peo- ple across all parts of this province that one of the ways we can begin to look at equal access — not the only way — is by the creation of a virtual school. We're ex- cited about that.

We've had very positive feedback, and yes, indeed, we need to put the mechanisms in place to make sure we can offer those choices to students. G. Coons: It might be exciting, but then again, com- ing from rural areas, I see this — and quite a few of the school districts, I think, in the rural areas might see this — as leading to staffing nightmares as far as the mixing of independent and public schools. My question is: as for the virtual schools or the distributed-learning independent schools, are there any class limits or loads to those? [1520] Hon. S.

Bond: First of all, the whole concept of learn- ing via technology is not new. In fact, British Columbia is behind many other jurisdictions in this country and in this world. So it's not like we're reinventing the wheel. In many cases, we're trying to catch up and allow students the opportunities to take advantage of as many courses and as many delivery ways as possible. Currently, there are some options for students that are very similar to this, so this is not a new delivery mechanism. It's a way of bringing all of these programs together under one umbrella to allow students….

In par- ticular, some students in the member opposite's riding might be able to take advant age of having course offer- ings that they have not had the ability to take previously. G. Coons: I'm sure people in my riding would like to take advantage of having a real live person in front of their class, besides being instructed in a virtual school. I was just wondering: are there any class loads or limits to these virtual schools? Hon. S. Bond: We're in the process of putting the mechanisms in place to bring to life a virtual school in this province. This is the legislation that's required to do that.

We're going to work through the developmen- tal programs, but let's make no mistake about it: schools across this province are already offering dis- tance learning programs. This looks at the whol e concept of distributed learning. In fact, there will be different methods of de- livery across the province. It's not a one-size-fits-all solution, and we think that's part of the good news in this story. This will allow expanded opportunity and choice for our students. G. Coons: This is the format to bring to life the leg- islation, and I think that's what we're trying to do here.

I'm trying to get a read on whether or not there are restrictions on class loads or limits. I take it there may not be, and you haven't decided that yet. There could be these virtual schools dealing with 100 or 200 students across the province networked out of a particular school somewhere. Is that correct? Hon. S. Bond: As I pointed out to the member op- posite, this is an opportun ity for us to expand oppor- tunities for students in th is province. There isn't a model in place that suggests it's going to look like this in one district or like that in another district.

What we're going to do is have a discussion about how best to serve students. We already have these re- sources being offered by many districts across the province. We want to bring them together. We want to see a coordinated and high-quality approach. I do want to comment on the member's comment that we'd all love to have a real live person. We're not suggesting for a moment that there won't be appropri- ate resources and supports in place. In fact, we actually believe that, in some situations, this will allow students to have classes that they simply have not been able to have before.

It's not a matte r of replacing anything or anyone. It's a matter of enhancing and expanding op- portunity. J. Horgan: Could the minister advise the committee if the individuals providing this service will be creden- tialed? Will they be members of the teachers college, or are they just folks with a computer in the basement? Hon. S. Bond: First of all, programs like this are being offered every day in British Columbia by trained professionals.

I visited one of those places just the other day, where they have 300 students operating out of a school district run by teachers that are actually provid- ing 300 students with courses. We want to work to- gether with those organizat ions to say: how can we actually benefit more students in this province?

4644 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 The professionals will either be credentialed under the Independent School Act, which is currently in exis- tence, or be a member of the B.C. College of Teachers. [1525] J. Horgan: Could the minister, then, elaborate on her example? Those 300 students, I assume, were in the public system, and it was a school district funded through the public education system, not a private in- dependent school? Hon. S. Bond: I visited a public school district that actually offered incredible distance learning opportuni- ties. J.

Horgan: I rejoice in the successes within the pub- lic system with the minister . What troubles me or con- cerns me at this stage — reading the legislation on this

section with respect to the Independent School Act, which I have here in front of me — is that I think the public would like to have a sense of what the criteria would be for these institutions to be created and estab- lished, what the qualifications would be of the indi- viduals providing the courses, and how that is going to be monitored. Those are the thrusts of the questions that we have before the minister. I'm wondering if she could give us a n i n d i c a t i o n o f h o w w e l l t h i s h a s b e e n t h o u g h t through by staff at the ministry and how will it be im- plemented? Hon. S.

Bond: It has been and will continue to be well thought out by the ministry and the great staff that we have there. It will also respond to the needs and con- cerns that parents and others across this province have about access. We need to be clear that these programs already exist, both on the public and private side. They exist with an agreement with the minister in terms of offering those on the independent school side. Independent schools that receive funding obviously have rigorous criteria. They are governed by the Inde- pendent School Act. Nothing will change in that regard.

Section 1 approved. On

section 2. J. Horgan: How will reporting be conducted from these independent schools to the Ministry of Educa- tion? Hon. S. Bond: First of all, there is an inspector of independent schools who does that on a regular basis. We also have monitoring that is done regularly, and in fact, independent schools are governed with very rig- orous and very high expect ations, as are the public schools. J. Horgan:

Section 2,

section 1.1(3)(b)(i). This is with respect to the student's parent or guardian. Could the minister explain to me the intent of this clause? [1530] Hon. S. Bond: We're not quite certain of the ques- tion, but we think…. The sect ion merely outlines what the criteria are for counting students. J.

Horgan: That's my concern as I read that clause: "is or was at the time of that parent's or guardian's death, a citizen of Canada or permanent resident as defined…" And we have a definition under the Immi- gration and Refugee Protection Act: "who is, or was at that time of the parent or guardian's death, ordinarily resident in British Columbia…" I'm just wondering what…. It seems an odd clause. I'm wondering if it's in other legislation and I just haven't come across it. What precipitated its inclusion in this bill, in this section? Hon. S.

Bond: What subsection (3) sets out is that a funded student must be of school age and that the stu- dent's parent or guardian must be ordinarily resident in British Columbia. In fact, that terminology is updated to reflect recent amendments to the federal Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, so it's merely a clarification of the language based on a change in the act. Introductions by Members The Chair: If the members of the House would indulge the Chair once again, I see that the second half of the class visiting from Dr . Knox Middle School is in the gallery. They are accompanied by Ms. Ashman, Mr.

Colpitt and Mr. Mastromonaco. It's the concert band and choral

section of grade seven students from Dr. Knox Middle School in my riding, and I would ask members to please make them welcome. Debate Continued J. Horgan: Moving through

section 2(6.1), "Sharing of student records," we touched upon this in a previous discussion on

section 1. I'm wondering again if the minister could explain where there's a crossover be- tween the private independ ent school and the public school. I'm not clear on…. The records are housed…. Assume we have a child at Oak Bay High School here in Victoria in grade ten, 11 or 12 and they have almost a full course load but are taking a distributed course from an independent provider , as outlined in the pre- vious sections: The record for that student is housed at Oak Bay High School, and the fulfilment of the re- quirement of the courts through the distributed process is then transferred to Oak Bay High School.

Is that how this would work in terms of sharing the student's re- cords? Hon. S. Bond: Yes. J. Horgan: So let's say that three-fourths of the re- cords which are traditionally held for the courses being taken at Oak Bay High will not be transmitted the op- posite direction to the private institution?

WEDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4645 Hon. S. Bond: That's correct. The full record stays at the child's home school. The course they would have completed — that information would have been trans- ferred over. J. Horgan: With respect to that record, then, at no point would the independent school have access to any other component beyond that which is being offered by that institution to that individual, and the records would be transferred back. I'm understanding your point? [1535] Hon. S. Bond: We'll clarify it one last time for all of us.

The home school would have the majority of the student's records and the additional information would transfer from that other sch ool, whether public or in- dependent, to the home sc hool. But there will be a sharing of that informatio n between the two schools in order for the child to have a complete record. G. Coons: Some clarification in 8.1. The first one: "An authority may provide all or part of an educational pro- gram by means of distributed learning only with the prior agreement of the minister." I was just wondering: what criteria or standards would the minister use in that? Hon. S.

Bond: That's actually not a change in cur- rent practice. That's what exists now. G. Coons: I'm just wondering: will these virtual schools, these DLs, have any school accreditation or have some sort of accreditation process? Hon. S. Bond: In fact, one of the primary goals of having a virtual school is to allow us to assure people who take those programs that they are of a certain standard, so there will be very high-quality standard expectations.

That's why there is an expectation the agreement be made with the minister: so that we can monitor and assure those students who choose distrib- uted learning that there are quality standards in place. That is the current practice, and this is not a change from what we do today. J.

Horgan: As I understand it, DL students, or distance-education students, are currently able to access nine programs, if I read correctly the material that I've received from the ministry: My Schools B.C., Distance Education School of the Kootenays, E-Business Acad- emy, Fraser Valley Distance Education School, Greater Vancouver Distance Education School, Kamloops- Thompson Virtual School, North Island Distance Educa- tion School, Northern B.C. Distance Education School and the South Island Distance Education School. Are all of those public, or are they all private, or is it a mix?

And if that's not at hand, could that be pro- vided at a later date? Hon. S. Bond: In fact, those schools are traditional correspondence schools. Those are public schools, but there may well be, and probably there are, courses of- fered in independent schools by distance or distributed learning, as we speak. J. Horgan: Does the minister and the ministry an- ticipate, as a result of this amendment, an increase in the number of institutions offering DL programs, and if so, have they factored in wh at that growth rate might be? Hon. S.

Bond: We don't anticipate and certainly are not planning that there be a significant amount of growth. The issue here is of making it more accessible, having students be more aware of the opportunities. We also want the opportunity to make sure that there isn't duplication. Why would we have three or four or five or six courses being crea ted that are in essence the same? It gives us a chance to bring some efficiencies but, most importantly, to provide a new way of access to these courses for students. We think this will set the stage for a virtual school that will give students new and exciting opportunities.

They will be high standard. There will be expectations that schools work through the virtual school in order to offer this programming. [1540] J. Horgan: This goes back to the funding question I asked earlier. It's a concern that if there is a prolifera- tion of independent virtual school course offerings across the province, that will potentially, over time, have a detrimental impact on funding for the public system and for land-based or real-time teaching in real classrooms and real communities across B.C. These are among the concerns I've been getting in my in-box about the legislation, in these sections.

I'm wondering if the minister could provide the public with some comfort that there isn't an expectation there will be a significant increa se in computer companies offering courses that will then have a negative impact on resourcing of the public system. Hon. S. Bond: I have a great deal of confidence in the public education system. I think we can have that confidence. I think students will choose to take oppor- tunities and take advantage of additional access. This isn't about computer companies. This is about public education and independent schools that are rigorous in their expectations.

They have rigorous guidelines. This is an opportunity to expand choice, to give students right across this province new opportunities — students with different le arning styles. This isn't going to be the only answer for students. We simply want it to be one additional answer. J. Horgan: I don't doubt for a minute the minister's enthusiasm. I'm just concerned that the public who have been contacting me in my role as critic for her ministry are expressing concern to me that this may well lead to an increase not in the traditional inde- pendent schools, which we have come to know as inte-

4646 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 gral parts of our community providing a service to those who wish to buy it, bu t to an increase in compa- n i e s t h a t w a n t t o b e i n t h e b u s i n e s s o f p r o v i d i n g courses. This isn't a slight to those innovators out there in high-tech land. It is only a comment that has come to me that I would like the minister to contemplate for a minute with her staff and advise: what would be the result of an increase in the number of companies pro- viding educational services in the province?

What would the impact be, over ti me, on funding to the tra- ditional system if funding is now on a per-course basis and block funding is leaving a district and going to a company that is providing computer services? Hon. S. Bond: This isn't about computer compa- nies. It's about schools. It's about districts across this province that are already cr eating fantastic programs and looking for new and innovative ways to serve stu- dents. That's the whole point. The whole point of this

section of the bill and the oth- ers that follow is about how we create a system that opens new choice and new opportunity. It's not about computer companies. In fact, education funding is at the highest level it has ever been, and we're going to make sure it stays that way. This is about giving students choice and opportunity. That's the purpose of this section. J.

Horgan: The minister is then saying that I could not meet the requirements within the Independent School Act, run a school out of my basement providing DL services to the Ministry of Education and, therefore, funnel resources that were destined for the public sys- tem into my bank account. Hon. S. Bond: There is a rigorous process to become an independent school in the province. First of all, they are qualified professionals. Secondly, the process would include a rigorous evaluation process, a series of…. Ac- tually, earning independent school status.

At that point, if they were successful in doing that, you have to have operated for a year. Only then, after all of those rigorous standards, would you be able to apply for 35 or 50 percent fund- ing under independent school status. Independent schools have operated in this province successfully for decades, and we want to simply say we want to find a way to look at how to increase choice and opportunity. [1545] There are two separate subvotes. One is the inde- pendent school subvote, and one is the public school subvote. That's how those organizations receive their funding. J.

Horgan: That is right to the nub of the issue. You have two subvotes. You have a student in the public system who is funded through a block transfer of mon- eys from the Ministry of Education to the district where they reside and are getting an education. That student elects to take the minister up on her offer of choice and takes a distributed learning course from the Kootenays. The money for that course has to be transferred to the Kootenays. Is it coming from the public pocket? Is it coming from some other pocket?

As a result, is that a diminishment of resources to the community where the child is spending most of his or her time? Hon. S. Bond: Public school funding would come out of the public school pot, and independent school funding would come out of the independent subvote. J. Horgan: If I understand the minister correctly, if my child in district 62 is enrolled in three courses in the public system and elects to take a private course in the Kootenays, the money for that private course will come out of the private school bloc k and not affect the fund- ing to the district in which he resides. Hon. S.

Bond: Funding for public school courses comes out of the public school subvote. Funding for independent schools…. I really want to emphasize the word "independent" schools. They're not private schools; they're independent schools. That's an important distinc- tion for those schools and those people who make that choice. In fact, that would come out of the independent school subvote. J. Horgan: Then, my son in district 62 would be funded as a fully participating student in district 62, and the funding formula would provide that district with the full amount for his enrolment in district 62.

There would be no diminishment on that transfer of funds from the province to the district, even though one of the four courses he's required to take is being taken from an independent provider in another dis- trict? Hon. S. Bond: The funding for public school courses…. If you take three classes or more, that is a full student any- way. The only change is that if you are a distributed learn- ing student, the funding would come from the public school pot, but if you have three classes and are taking them in public school, you receive full funding anyway at that particular school. J. Horgan: That's good news.

I'm pleased to hear that. What happens to the world if the child in a ru- ral…? Let's take a rural di strict, where there are in- creasing challenges for districts to manage declining enrolment and meet the needs of students in those dis- tricts. A student enrols. Three of the four courses are be- ing taken through the traditional public school system. That's fully funded — 100 percent funded by the minis- try to the district. One course is being taken through the DL program that's being outlined here. In Novem- ber something happens. Enrolment declines. Someone l e a v e s t o w n .

A c o u r s e i s n o l o n g e r o f f e r e d . T h a t i n d i - vidual, that student, takes a second course after No- vember. This is anticipating language further on in the bill. After November, what happens? Is that funding re-

WEDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4647 duced to the district, or would it be maintained and the second course be funded out of the private pot? [1550] Hon. S. Bond: Three courses in a bricks-and-mortar school. We have to be clear about that. If you're en- rolled as a student in a bricks-and-mortar school — three courses — full funding follows you. Obviously, we check funding three times throughout the year, and there is a diminishing amount of money as the year is shorter. That adjustment takes place now, and it would continue to take place. J.

Horgan: I thank the minister for bearing with me, because this has been.… I've had numerous calls and e- mails on this question. There's a genuine concern that…. To be candid, the argument is that it's the thin edge of the wedge. If we're privatizing educational services, then that will lead to an erosion of the public process. I get an indication from the minister's re- sponses that that is certainly not the intent.

Even if it was an unintended consequence, there is every indication that the minister and the ministry would take steps to ensure that over the course of the school year, if circumstances dictate that a second or third course were to take place, there wouldn't be a deleterious impact on the district and that school. While we're still on

section 2, the

section that re- quires.…

Section 8.1 again: "An authority may provide all or part of an educational program by means of dis- tributed learning only with the prior agreement of the minister." What would you contemplate as an example of that prior agreement? Hon. S. Bond: Well, in fact, there are a number of expectations. I think the key point — the member for North Coast canvassed this earlier — is this is no change from current practice.

Section 2 approved. On

section 3. J. Horgan: It's with respect to

section 3, subsection (2)(b): "governing eligibility for and the calculation of grants under

section 12." That would be under

section 12 of the Independent School Act. Is that correct? Hon. S. Bond: Yes, and it reflects no change. J. Horgan: I'm curious: if there is no change, why are we seeing it in this bill? Hon. S. Bond: The drafter just completed that sec- tion. Subsection (2)(

a) and the other subsections are new, and the drafter just completed by adding the ex- isting legislation. J. Horgan: We're repealing

section 3, which is amending

section 18 of the Independent School Act by "repealing subsection (2) an d substituting the follow- ing." Again, if we've repeal ed subsection (2) and we're "substituting the following," I'm wondering why, if it's no change, we're substituting it. Hon. S. Bond: I'm not certain why this would be an issue. The draftsperson simply included the sections that are unchanged from th e School Act and listed them below the sections that we're changing. J. Horgan: As I read the bill,

section 3 says "Section 18 is amended (

a) by repea ling subsection (2) and sub- stituting the following:" and inventories what that sub- stitution is. As I look at the end, sub-subsection (

g) says "comma and…." Is that the amendment? Is that what we've repealed, and we've added a comma and the "and" — a-n-d? [1555] Hon. S. Bond: As I said, subsections (b), (c), (d), (

e) and (

g) remain unchanged, so that would be left, and the rest of the Independent School Act would be fol- lowing that without change. J. Horgan: So, then, when we get to subsection (b), "by repealing subsection (3)(b)," which is the part that I was concerned about, it says: "and substituting the following…." So we're repealing the (

b) above and in- serting the (

b) below? Hon. S. Bond: Well, I'm not quite certain how I can say this. My staff has answ ered the question. The an- swer is this. The first subsection (2)(

a) and the follow- ing subsections are new. The other pieces — (b), (c), (d), (e), (

f) and (g) — remain unchanged and have sim- ply been included by the draftsperson to follow the sections we're changing. Sections 3 and 4 approved. On

section 5. G. Coons: I just have one question about the defini- tions. Under the following added definition of "super- vise," it says: "in the context of a teacher…providing an educational program…by means of distributed learn- ing, means to supervise the student's progress through the educational program." I'm just wondering how that is pictured, with the examples, say, of a student in Oak Bay taking one dis- tributed learning course in the Kootenays and how that supervision will be accessed for the student. Hon. S.

Bond: Well, the definition of "supervise" actually means, in this contex t, that the school that is offering the program…. The te acher at that site would be the person who does the supervision, monitors and works with the student as they make progress. G. Coons: Okay, so trying to picture this, again, let's just say that in a school in my riding, a grade 11 class, there are five studen ts taking math 11 through a

4648 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 distributed learning course out of an Oak Bay school. Who's responsible? Who's lo oking after those five stu- dents in the Prince Rupert school who are taking the course from another region or area or virtual school? Hon. S. Bond: The principle of supervision remains the same. Whoever is providing the course has the duty to supervise. Now we need to get our heads around what this.… First of all, it happens now. There are programs being offered in three sites, actually, in the riding that I live in.

In order for three school com- munities to actually offer the English lit program for the first time in many years, w e h a v e s t u d e n t s t a k i n g those courses at three different sites in bricks-and- mortar buildings. [1600] However, this may be that a student decides they want to be a distributed learning student and takes a course at home. The supervision still is required in terms of the progress of that particular student by the offering school and by the teacher who therein is the supervisor. G.

Coons: I'm sorry if I'm having difficulty grasp- ing this, because I haven't been involved in the DL or virtual school–type situation before. If there are, as I said, five students at Charles Hays Secondary School in Prince Rupert that are, from a certain time every day, taking DL courses from someplace else and they're in a classroom, who's in charge of those students in that school in an isolated situation from the monitoring school that's offering the course? Hon. S.

Bond: In fact, in the virtual situation that I sat in on, the teacher of the class that sponsors the course, offers it, is the supervisor of instruction. But there were resources provided in the other school set- tings to make sure that those students had support and supervision in those sites. The school management is part of how any school would be managed, and those students would be provided with the support and the resources necessary. G.

Coons: In other words, if I have my five students taking a math 11 course virtually and we've got them in a setting, there is supervision for those students from that school, and there is fund ing for those five students for that supervision component? Hon. S. Bond: The discussion about how that would be supported, how that would be managed and where those students would, in fact, gather to take those classes would be done as any other class organi- zation is done within a school. G. Coons: So the staffing would be there to monitor the virtual students? Hon. S.

Bond: Students would be, if they chose to be, in a bricks-and-morta r classroom. Those arrange- ments would be made as any other class arrangements are made for students within the context of organizing a school. G. Coons: If there are five students or one student in my local high school taking a virtual course, they will have supervision — that one or those five will have supervision in that school, and it will be funded? Hon. S. Bond: Those arrangements will be made the same way they are today, where those opportuni- ties are already provided for students. There would be little change to that. J.

Horgan: Of course, now we've put away our In- dependent School Act, and we're looking at the School Act. It's to do with

section 5(d),

definitions. It says: "'distributed learning school' means a school or franco- phone school that offers instruction to its students by means of distributed learni ng only…." I'm wondering if the minister could tell me: if any, what schools are only offering distributed learning now in the public school system? Hon. S. Bond: In fact, that would include the list of nine that the member opposite read off earlier. Those are actually distance learning correspondence schools. That is their primary function.

We may want to con- sider the Electronic Bus which operates in, I believe, the Nechako Lakes school district. [1605] J. Horgan: So the distributed learning definition, which outlines only those, is the nine that I listed be- fore. The minister confirms that there are no others at this time? Hon. S. Bond: Those are certainly the ones that we're aware of, but we know that school districts are being entrepreneurial and innovative all of the time. They are looking at the area s of distance education and distributed learning. That's why we think the virtual school is an impor- t a n t c o n c e p t .

I t w i l l a l s o a l l o w u s t o m a k e s u r e t h a t those arrangements are put in place with agreements with the minister, so we will fully know what kinds of courses are being offered, how they're being offered and that there would be stan dards in place to assure that there is a quality assurance process. J. Horgan: I thank the minister for that response. Now it's just a curiosity. Why the language change from distance education to distributed learning? Is there a benefit to that, or is it just a desire to change the look? Hon. S. Bond: In fact, it's really an evolution of distance learning.

What it does is broaden the defini- tion to include, in particular, a more direct communica- tion between teachers and students, and it relies more significantly on things like the Internet, teleconferenc- ing and electronic-based delivery. When we think of

WEDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES 4649 distance education, that's typically the paper-based correspondence-type program. We think it better cap- tures the kinds of opportunities we'd like our students to have in the virtual school. J. Horgan: Did the minister just say that this relies on direct communication? As I read the definition, it says "indirect." Did I mishear her? Hon. S. Bond: Indirect communication. J. Horgan: I thank the minister. I can't hear as well as I used to. We've determined that there is a supervision com- ponent. That's covered off qu ite well. I'm wondering if, within

section 5…. We have

definitions; we have a movement to include the francophone school district. All 60 districts are covered by this. I s t h e r e a p l a n o n b e h a l f o f t h e m i n i s t r y t o m o v e aggressively to virtual schools, or is it the plan to, as the minister said, allow districts to be entrepreneurial, to look at solutions that meet their needs in an evolving environment? Or is there a plan to be aggressively pur- suing this option as a ministry and as a government? Hon. S. Bond: We made a commitment to the peo- ple of British Columbia to create a virtual school, and we intend to do precisely that.

How we're going to do that is by working with the institutions, in particular, that already offer distance learning and, in many cases, distributed learning. We have groups that are already meeting to talk about how to bring this to students in the province. We've made a commitment. We're going to keep it. We're going to do that in consultation, particularly with those organizations that are already offering dis- tance and distributed learning programs. As I sug- gested, just the other day I was in one of those schools that had 300 students who were taking their programs on line.

Let me tell you, I read some amazing testimo- nials from those students. We made a commitment, and we intend to keep it. J. Horgan: You know, when we have the benefit of accessing the Clerk's office to better understand what these clauses mean…. The minister, of course, has the legislative draftspeople within the Attorney General Ministry. Those of us fortun ate enough to be in this House have a pretty clear un derstanding of what we're t r y i n g t o d o h e r e .

I t d o e s n ' t a l w a y s s e e m t h a t w a y , I know, but certainly we've got a leg up on those folks who are watching at home or even those in the gallery.

When the government committed to a virtual school, I know the talk — certainly in coffee row in Langford, where I hang out — was: "Well, is that going t o b e o n e s c h o o l t h a t i s a c c e s s e d b y p e o p l e a l l a c r o s s the province?" I said: "No, that's not my understand- ing." My understanding is that "virtual school" means just what we're discussing here: opportunities that are located in various parts of the province, restricted to this province.

I did ask the question spec ifically on the Independ- ent School Act amendments, but I'll ask the question now to the minister and phrase it in a way that I think will get to two answers. And that is: (

a) these distrib- uted learning opportunities must be confined to the boundaries of British Columbia, and (

b) when we talk about a virtual school, what we mean is virtual oppor- tunities that aren't confined to one provider but multi- ple providers. [1610] Hon. S. Bond: The vision that we have for the vir- tual school is capitalizing on the expertise and great programs that exist. We look forward to new programs being created. But we want to make sure that they're streamlined and efficient an d that they're top quality for our students. This is about bringing together the best of those courses from a variety of schools across the province.

They'll be part of a collaborative process called the virtual school or some other wonder f u l n a m e t h a t w e d e c i d e upon. The bottom line is: this is about new opportunities for students. It is going to take advantage of the expertise we already see in this province in terms of school districts that are doing this and doing it successfully. We simply want to make it easier for students to access and to make sure they have all the choices they could possibly want. J.

Horgan: I agree with the minister that students in this century and those that await us — not us, but our grandchildren and our gran dchildren's grandchildren — will require innovation and new approaches to edu- cation and a whole host of other activities. When we're contemplating the virtual school, which I now understand to be services provided in districts that are sharing across boundaries and going through time and space to provide courses where they're not necessarily offered…. The minister used the examples of her community of Prince George. [B.

Lekstrom in the chair.] When we're preparing or creating this entity or series of entities, what role does the private sector play in this? Would there be inducements to participate? Again, this goes back to the high-tech companies. I don't do this in a frivolous way. The expertise and the ability to create the technologies and the software packages to deliver these programs are in the private sector. They're not in the public school system. What, if any, plan does the minister have in that respect? Hon. S. Bond: We have no plans for anything that is different than what's ha ppening today.

School dis- tricts go, and they have expe rts create programs. In the program I was in most recently, the teachers actually created the programs based on the British Columbia curriculum, and they designed those courses so they could be offered virtually. We have no grand plans that involve computer companies or anything of that nature. This is about

4650 B RITISH COLUMBIA DEBATES W EDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2006 school districts deciding how they can best offer courses to students in a different way. We think that's great news. We think this is going to provide new op- portunities. As I've suggested, we're simply going to capitalize on what's already happening in this province and make it easier for students to access those pro- grams. J. Horgan: I thank the minister.

I can interpret from her remarks that the expectation is that these programs and initiatives will continue to come from those that are currently participating in the public school system: our teachers and our teaching assistants and our direc- tors of instruction and various other school board staff — public employees. Hon. S. Bond: Hon. Chair, there would be no change in that regard from today's practice. Sections 5 and 6 approved. On

section 7. J. Horgan: I think we touched upon this in earlier sections of the bill with respect to students in grades ten to 12. I just want to be clear here, because now we've got a blurring of independent and public again. I just want to take a look. If the minister and her staff could read carefully

section 3.1(

a) and (b), which is that the student in ten to 12 shall: "(

a) enroll in one or more educational programs under

section 3, and (

b) in addition to enrolling in one or more educational pro- grams under

section 3, enroll in an educational pro- gram offered by an authority under the Independent School Act." [1615] This again goes back to the initial question I asked with respect to amendments to the Independent School Act. Is this confirming in the School Act the changes that were contemplated earlier in this bill? Hon. S. Bond: Yes. J. Horgan: For those who may well need to inter- pret this act based on the discussions we're having to- day, I'll just say it again so that the minister can con- firm that I'm correct that this section,

section 7,

section 3.1 — the remarks that we made and the adventure we had in determining where moneys are coming from — is consistent for this

section as it is consistent with the

section earlier in the bill? Hon. S. Bond: It's the same thing. Sections 7 and 8 approved. On

section 9. J. Horgan: We're getting close to moving on here, but with respect to

section 9, again my concern goes back to my in-box and the mail I'm receiving about the challenges that some people suggest these changes will make with respect to the thin edge of the wedge. I'm wondering, with respect to minister-approved pro- grams — this would be

section 9(b), (4.1), "A board may provide all or part of an educational program by means of distribu

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	H0510pm-05
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	H0510pm 05
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	624b29af6bcbdd388737cdb380fc95ad5a6a9f6a

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