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April 17, 2013

40th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2013-Apr-17 (PDF)

L026 - Wed 17 Apr 2013 / Mer 17 avr 2013

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Wednesday 17 April 2013 Mercredi 17 avril 2013

ORDERS OF THE DAY

SKIN CANCER PREVENTION

ACT (TANNING BEDS), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LA PRÉVENTION

DU CANCER DE LA PEAU

(LITS DE BRONZAGE)

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

ORAL QUESTIONS

POWER PLANTS

POWER PLANTS

GOVERNMENT’S RECORD

DRUG FORMULATION

POWER PLANTS

POWER PLANTS

POWER PLANTS

CANCER TREATMENT

YOUTH EMPLOYMENT

POWER PLANTS

DISASTER RELIEF

PUBLIC TRANSIT

POWER PLANTS

MUSIC EDUCATION

CONSUMER PROTECTION

CORRECTION OF RECORD

VISITORS

USE OF PROPS IN THE HOUSE

MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS

MAJESTA TREES OF KNOWLEDGE

CLEMENTINE NG

QUEEN’S DIAMOND JUBILEE

MEDAL RECIPIENTS

RAILWAY CITY BREWING CO.

WORKPLACE SAFETY

MINOR HOCKEY

MILOS RAONIC

COUNT ME IN

LOW WATER LEVELS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

ALZHEIMER ADVISORY

COUNCIL ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR

LE CONSEIL CONSULTATIF

DE LA MALADIE D’ALZHEIMER

PETITIONS

CHILDREN’S PSYCHIATRIC MEDICATION

ELECTORAL BOUNDARIES

TIRE DISPOSAL

OFFICE OF THE OMBUDSMAN

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION

AIR-RAIL LINK

WIND TURBINES

AIR-RAIL LINK

ONTARIO COLLEGE OF TRADES

GOVERNMENT SERVICES

LAND USE PLANNING

HORSE RACING INDUSTRY

WIND TURBINES

ORDERS OF THE DAY

LOCAL FOOD ACT, 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR

LES ALIMENTS LOCAUX

ADJOURNMENT DEBATE

TAXATION

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Good morning. Please join me in prayer.

Prayers.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

SKIN CANCER PREVENTION

ACT (TANNING BEDS), 2013 /

LOI DE 2013 SUR LA PRÉVENTION

DU CANCER DE LA PEAU

(LITS DE BRONZAGE)

Resuming the debate adjourned on March 19, 2013, on the motion for second reading of the following bill:

Bill 30,

An Act to regulate the selling and marketing of tanning services and ultraviolet light treatments / Projet de loi 30, Loi visant à réglementer la vente et la commercialisation de services de bronzage et de traitements par rayonnement ultraviolet.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Further debate?

Mrs. Christine Elliott: Good morning, Mr. Speaker, and thank you very much for the opportunity to speak to Bill 30,

An Act to regulate the selling and marketing of tanning services and ultraviolet light treatments. Before I begin, I would like to indicate that I will be sharing my time with my friend and colleague the member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound.

To start off, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this bill over the past few years, starting with the member from Nickel Belt, who has brought it forward on several occasions and who has been relentless in her pursuit of safe tanning practices. I think she really is to be congratulated on this bill coming forward as a government bill.

I would also like to welcome Joanne Di Nardo and Florentina Stancu-Soare from the Canadian Cancer Society, who are in the gallery to be part of this debate and to listen to the comments here today. Thank you so much for joining us. The Canadian Cancer Society has been tirelessly advocating for the safe use of tanning beds for more than seven years. Their efforts deserve to be recognized and applauded, and I’m pleased that we are finally taking action to promote the safe and appropriate use of tanning beds in this province.

Bill 30 is a measure to respond to the mounting scientific evidence that points to the known dangers associated with using tanning beds and ultraviolet light treatments for youth. The World Health Organization has identified tanning beds as a known carcinogen. Previously, tanning beds were considered a probable carcinogen, but in 2009, the World Health Organization upgraded tanning beds from probable carcinogens to known carcinogens, based on scientific evidence. This puts tanning bed use in the highest risk category along with asbestos and tobacco.

Bill 30, which will restrict access to indoor tanning equipment for youth under 18, is consistent with existing regulation on minors’ access to other harmful substances, like tobacco. These restrictions recognize that youth are less likely to consider long-term health consequences of their actions, and this is especially relevant to indoor tanning because skin cancer resulting from indoor tanning equipment can take years to develop.

Mr. Speaker, I can certainly say from personal experience that in my youth we weren’t aware of the dangers associated with excess tanning. I’m glad that we know this information now, and that we are taking these types of precautions. Dr. Samir Gupta, chair of the Ontario Medical Association’s dermatology section, states, “The evidence has been unequivocal over the last several years that tanning bed radiation is linked to skin cancer,” and it’s the sun exposure you are getting in your early years that predicts skin cancer later on.

What does Bill 30 contain? In addition to restricting access to indoor tanning equipment for youth, Bill 30 has several other provisions. The bill requires tanning bed operators to request identification from people who appear to be under 25. This is certainly consistent with the laws on tobacco sales, which stipulate that tobacco cannot be sold to a person who appears to be under 25 unless that person produces identification indicating that they are of majority age.

Bill 30 would also ban advertising and marketing of tanning services or ultraviolet light treatment to youth under 18. Further, Bill 30 requires tanning bed owners to post signs about the ban and the health risks associated with the use of tanning beds. To give teeth to this regulation, Bill 30 authorizes inspectors to enforce these regulations. Tanning bed operators who fail to comply with the legislation will face fines. Fines are set at $5,000 for individuals and $25,000 for corporations.

Finally, Bill 30 requires that all tanning bed operators provide the local medical officer of health with the name, business address and telephone number where the tanning service or ultraviolet light treatment is being sold. The province needs a registry of tanning equipment operators so that, if passed, this legislation can be overseen and enforced.

Bill 30 comes in response to studies by health researchers that have made the risks of using tanning beds abundantly clear, especially for youth. The World Health Organization’s International Agency for Research on Cancer reports that the risk of skin cancer, particularly melanoma, increases by 75% when tanning beds are used prior to the age of 35. Researchers have found that the risk of developing melanoma, the deadliest form of skin cancer, increases by 1.8% with each additional tanning session per year.

This is worrying, because we are witnessing the impact on the health of Ontarians. The incidence of melanoma in Ontario has been rising in youth and adults aged 15 to 34. At the same time as we see increasing cases of melanoma among youth, we see a rise in the use of tanning beds. A study conducted on behalf of the Canadian Cancer Society showed that between 2006 and 2012 the use of tanning beds more than doubled, from 7% to 16%, among Ontario students in grades 11 and 12. Skin cancer is now the most common cancer in Ontario. It accounts for one third of all cancer diagnoses in the province.

The research is clear that the main environmental risk factor for skin cancer is exposure to ultraviolet radiation from the sun and also through indoor tanning. It’s important to clarify that exposure to ultraviolet rays is linked to skin cancer whether the ultraviolet rays are from the sun or from tanning beds. In fact, UV rays from tanning beds can be even more harmful than UV rays from the sun. I don’t think this is something that people really recognize, Mr. Speaker.

Studies of modern tanning equipment have found ultraviolet emissions equal to or exceeding those of the midday sun in the Mediterranean. According to the Canadian Cancer Society, some tanning beds can expose you to five times more radiation than the sun; again, a pretty startling statistic. However, many youth have false conceptions about tanning beds. According to an Ipsos Reid poll, 12% of youth believe that using tanning beds or lamps actually helps prevent some kinds of cancer and nearly 20% say they use a tanning bed or lamp because it increases their vitamin D levels.

In reality, there are many other ways of getting vitamin D without the risks that accompany the use of tanning beds; for instance, through safe exposure to the sun or by taking supplements such as liquid vitamin D drops.

So why do youth use tanning beds? According to a study by the Canadian Cancer Society, the main reasons students give for using tanning beds are (1) feeling that they look better with a tan; (2) getting a tan before going on vacation or for special occasions—I think it’s probably around prom season that we see a particular use, or the highest use, of tanning beds and ultraviolet light treatments; and (3) because of peer influence.

A Toronto health survey tells us that in Toronto, indoor tanning use is highest among young white women aged 18 to 34, 44% of whom have used indoor tanning at some point in their lives, and we know that more than one in five people start using tanning equipment when they are under 18 years of age. So a ban, I would say, in this case is certainly appropriate.

To look out for our youth’s best interests, we must appropriately address the products and services that put youth at considerable risk. I would say, as Progressive Conservatives, that we don’t necessarily believe in bans just for the sake of it, but in this case, there’s certainly significant scientific evidence that directly links the use of indoor tanning and some forms of skin cancer. What we’re talking about here when we’re talking about youth as opposed to adults is that there is certainly evidence that links skin cancer—specifically, linking melanoma—to tanning beds. It undeniably points to a need to regulate tanning bed use for youth under 18.

The state recognizes that youth may be less likely to consider the long-term health consequences of their actions, and there are provisions in law which bind the state to protect youth and others who are not capable of caring for themselves or making these types of decisions for themselves. In law, the parens patriae power gives the state the power to make decisions concerning people who are not able to take care of themselves or to make those kinds of decisions on their own. In the case of Rutherford v.

Ontario, the court found that “the parens patriae jurisdiction is ... founded on necessity, namely the need to act for the protection of those who cannot care for themselves. The courts have frequently stated that it is to be exercised in the best interest of the protected person....”

We see other examples of this—for example, in the work of the children’s aid society. The children’s aid society has the power to intervene in families to prevent child abuse and neglect. Similarly, when there is a known danger to youth, as is the case with tanning beds and UV radiation, it is necessary from time to time for the state to step in to keep our youth healthy, and that’s certainly what Bill 30 is aimed at doing.

I would like to speak just briefly about one individual person’s contact with tanning beds and her personal health situation that arose as a result of that. One brave young woman who has appeared in this Legislature before—her name is Kate Neale—used to be a frequent tanner. She is now a Canadian Cancer Society volunteer and a fantastic advocate against youth using tanning beds. Kate started using tanning beds when she was a 16-year-old with light and sunburn-prone skin. At first, Kate tanned two or three times a week but soon started doing 12 to 16 minutes in the highest UVB-pressure bed up to 16 times a month.

The maximum recommended time on this bed is 12 minutes, but the salon allowed customers to tan in this bed for up to 30 minutes.

After graduating from high school, Kate applied to work at a tanning salon. Her contract stipulated that in return for maintaining a tanned appearance, she would get 12 indoor tanning sessions and one spray tan free each month.

In May 2011, at age 21, Kate was diagnosed with melanoma, the deadliest form of skin cancer. Kate’s surgeon told her that she was the youngest person he had ever treated for melanoma. Removing the melanoma has left a six-inch scar on Kate’s stomach. Since her first surgery, she has had to undergo biopsies for skin lesions on her right breast, leg and arm. Despite her experience, Kate says she is still using self-tanners, or self-tanning spray or lotion, because she still wants to maintain that tanned appearance, but she’s still fighting skin cancer. New spots appear on her skin regularly.

Currently, Kate is waiting for the results of another biopsy, which left her with 22 stitches on her left breast, and a total of eight spots have been removed since June, one being precancerous.

Kate’s experience has led her to educate teenagers about the dangers of indoor tanning and encourage them to host tan-free proms. She’s also a strong advocate for the need to regulate the indoor tanning industry.

Kate says, “If politicians need a reason to take action on this issue, they should just take a look at my story to see how tanning at a young age has impacted my life.” I hope that any young people who may be either listening to this or may hear about it will take these words to heart, because of course all young people think that this sort of thing will never happen to them, but Kate’s experience certainly shows that it can happen to a young person. I thank her very much for her bravery in coming forward with her story.

Unfortunately, her story is powerful but all too common. Skin cancer is the most common form of cancer in Ontario. In 2011, an estimated 36,160 new cases of skin cancer were diagnosed in the province, of which 2,500, or 7%, were melanoma. Melanoma caused an estimated 420 deaths in Ontario in 2011.

Tanning bed use is undeniably costly to individuals’ personal health and well-being, but of course the financial cost to our health system is also extremely high. I’d just like to address that for a few moments. Cancer Care Ontario estimated that the cost of skin cancer in this province would exceed $344 million in 2011. This includes direct costs like the cost of treatment, as well as indirect costs of morbidity and premature mortality. This is a significant burden on our already strained health care system.

The good news is that this is a cost which we can take steps to minimize. Skin cancer is largely a preventable disease. Promoting the safe use of tanning beds is one way to minimize the risk of skin cancer, and this relates fundamentally to our Progressive Conservative vision for health care. Our vision for health care is based on health promotion and health prevention, rather than our old model of health care which is reactive, based on acute episodes of illness and only responds in times of crisis.

What we really want to do in our health care system is transition to a model which is based on promotion and prevention, which is proactive and which exposes people to knowledge about how to prevent these types of diseases in the future and to maintain high-quality health care. Bill 30 provides a way to improve the health of Ontarians and takes steps towards reducing the burden on our health care system.

The current standard for the indoor tanning industry is self-regulation, but this has proven to be insufficient. The Joint Canadian Tanning Association, or JCTA, has developed guidelines for tanning facilities. These voluntary guidelines include regulations about operator training and certification, restriction of equipment control to certified operators and requirements for written parental consent for clients under age 18, but these industry guidelines are not enforced, and the JCTA does not represent all indoor tanning facilities.

At present, studies show that indoor tanning facilities provide only limited information to their customers about the health risks of indoor tanning. Many people, including youth and fair-skinned individuals, continue to be at risk of skin cancer from indoor tanning. This was proven in 2007, when Youthography conducted a compliance audit for the Ontario branch of the Canadian Cancer Society. Research assistants, including youth as young as 16, were trained to act as indoor tanning customers.

The study looked at 79 tanning bed salons in Toronto and found that the majority, in fact 83% of those facilities, did not provide information about the skin cancer risks associated with indoor tanning bed use. Moreover, 60% of facilities did not ask for the age of the young researchers. This study suggests a failure of the current self-regulatory model.

Moreover, in 2011, Toronto Public Health conducted a review of the websites of indoor tanning facilities in Toronto to determine whether their practices were consistent with Health Canada’s guidelines for tanning salon owners, operators and users. Websites are considered an important source of information for indoor tanning customers looking for a local business.

Toronto Public Health found that only one third of the websites for tanning salons provide information about the health risks of indoor tanning to the consumer and to the public; only two websites provided information about the increased risks of skin cancer; and none of the websites advised young people not to use tanning equipment.

The Toronto Public Health website analysis also examined the marketing and advertising messages used to promote indoor tanning services. The most common theme—a claim made on 43% of the websites—was that indoor tanning is “safe” compared to tanning outdoors. A third of the websites identified benefits related to vitamin D production, and just under 20% of websites promoted health benefits such as improving mental health, preventing chronic disease, decreasing risk of cancer, and improving skin conditions. It’s no wonder that youth have a number of misconceptions about the use of indoor tanning beds.

These misleading promotional messages need to be addressed so that youth and all Ontarians are properly aware of the actual risks of indoor tanning.

These studies lead us to conclude that industry self-regulation is not effective and that we need to do more. The Joint Canadian Tanning Association once advocated for requiring parental consent for youth to use tanning beds rather than a ban against youth accessing tanning equipment. But the JCTA does not oppose age-based restrictions in Bill 30, and the JCTA recognizes the importance of regulating the indoor tanning sector. Further, the JCTA has pointed to several areas where Bill 30 could be strengthened, and this advice is certainly most welcome. The JCTA recognizes that if we are going to regulate the use of tanning beds available to youth, we need to do so effectively.

Bill 30 falls short because it does not include a ban on self-service coin-operated machines. Although self-service tanning is not yet common in Canada, it is common in England and a number of other international jurisdictions, and it is becoming increasingly common in Ontario. Coin- or swipe-card-operated franchises offer low-cost, unsupervised tanning services. These self-serve tanning beds lack professional control over UV light exposure, putting clients of all ages at risk and giving youth access to unsupervised tanning.

Controlling coin-operated machines is important because we do not want to ban teens from using tanning equipment only to have them find more dangerous, even less supervised, methods of tanning. Converting coin-operated tanning beds to manual control would come at a low cost—under $20—according to the JCTA and would help close the loopholes in Bill 30.

Bill 30 also fails to clearly differentiate between UV tanning and spray tanning. It’s important to protect the salon’s ability to provide spray tanning to youth, since this plays a

part in preventing the use of UV tanning in providing an alternative to youth who want to maintain that tanned appearance. We need to ensure that the proposed legislation is clarified to avoid any misinterpretation or unnecessary cost to small business while still promoting the best protection for our youth.

The JCTA’s recommendations to enhance Bill 30 make them one of the many groups that support the regulation of the indoor tanning sector. Many health promotion groups have called for creating guidelines on access to tanning beds for youth in addition to the Canadian Cancer Society. These groups include the Canadian Medical Association, Canadian Dermatology Association, Canadian Paediatric Society, Ontario Medical Association, Association of Local Public Health Agencies, and, of course, the Canadian Cancer Society. These groups recommend that children and youth under 18 years old not be allowed to use tanning equipment.

The public is also in favour of indoor tanning regulation in Ontario. I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, that I’ve received thousands of letters from people across this province voicing their support for establishing guidelines on tanning bed use. A lot of these letters have come from youth themselves, which I think is particularly appropriate and certainly indicates that youth are getting the message here. A 2011 Ipsos Reid poll of 822 Ontarians commissioned by the cancer society found that 80% of adults support legislation to regulate the tanning industry, and 83% support a ban on indoor tanning for youth under 18 years old.

Six provinces have already either introduced or implemented legislation restricting tanning bed use by youth, ranging from outright bans in Quebec, British Columbia, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia and Newfoundland to mandatory parental consent in Manitoba.

In February, the federal government announced that it would toughen existing health warnings about the dangers of tanning beds. The changes would force operators to display a health warning label reading, “Not recommended for use by those under 18 years of age,” and, “Tanning equipment can cause cancer,” as well as a list of other health risks associated with tanning.

In the federal House of Commons, Conservative MP James Bezan has tabled two bills pushing for stronger regulation on labelling and on using tanning equipment. MP Bezan stated, “My wife is a melanoma cancer survivor, and both of us used tanning beds. This is why I am fighting one of the most deadly but also most preventable cancers.” He urges all provinces to follow in British Columbia, Nova Scotia and Quebec’s footsteps by banning youth from using tanning equipment.

While Health Canada regulates the sale, lease and import of tanning beds, the regulation of tanning bed use in commercial establishments, including age restrictions, falls under provincial jurisdiction, and so this House is faced with the responsibility of ensuring that tanning equipment is used safely.

Outside of Canada, many other jurisdictions have taken steps towards reducing the use of tanning equipment. In the United States, California and Vermont have banned youth under 18 from using tanning beds, and more than 30 states currently restrict minors’ access to indoor tanning, either through parental consent or setting an age limit.

A number of countries also have legislation restricting or prohibiting tanning bed use by youth, including Britain, Iceland, Finland, Portugal, Norway, Scotland, Spain, Sweden and France. Closer to home, in Mississauga and Oakville, there are bylaws that restrict access to tanning equipment for youth under age 18.

Restricting minors’ access to tanning equipment at the provincial level, with penalties for operators who fail to comply, will help protect all Ontario youth from the health risks of indoor tanning. Provisions such as requiring tanning bed owners to post signs about the health risks of tanning bed use will promote informed decision-making for all tanning bed users across the province.

We strongly believe in the importance of keeping our youth healthy, educating them and encouraging them to make good decisions. We look forward to moving ahead with this bill in the best interests of our youth, to work towards creating a healthy Ontario.

I would say, Mr. Speaker, that we do support this bill entirely. We do believe that there are some suggestions that can be made, as we indicated, suggestions that have been made by the Joint Canadian Tanning Association and by others that will strengthen this bill, such as including the ban on self-operated or coin-operated tanning beds and by not including spray tanning in this ban, which I hope we’ll have the opportunity to discuss in greater detail in committee.

I thank you very much for the opportunity to address some of these issues this morning.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound.

Mr. Bill Walker: Thank you, Speaker. It’s always a pleasure to follow my esteemed colleague the health critic for the PC Party.

It’s a pleasure to stand here today and to give my thoughts on this bill. I just want to review for the people listening at home: “The bill prohibits selling, offering for sale, or providing for consideration tanning services or ultraviolet light treatments to persons under 18. Directing the advertising or marketing of such services or treatments to persons under 18 is also prohibited. Persons who sell such services or treatments are required to notify their local medical officer of health that they intend to do so and to post signs in their businesses about the health effects of the services or treatments.

“Inspection powers, offences, and regulation-making powers are provided for.”

Speaker, because we know that tanning beds do cause cancer, I believe we have an absolute duty to advertise these known dangers to teens. Particularly in my role as deputy health critic, it’s a concern that I take very seriously. We shouldn’t ever turn our heads from something that is going to do harm to someone who may not be at a point in life that they can make their own decisions.

There’s a lot of cachet out there on people’s looks. A tan, for many people, is something that they take very seriously, so they’ll go to these tanning beds without understanding that these are carcinogens. I think we have to do our utmost to ensure that the youth of today understand that. It’s our job, as legislators in this hallowed hall, to make sure that we’re taking those steps so that someone doesn’t needlessly die from that.

Skin cancer, as many of the leading organizations tell us, is the most common type of cancer, but it’s also the most preventable. It’s something that I think, again—with good education, with good communication, with us taking that step in the House today, we can prevent these types of cancers.

That is very significant, not only for the life of the individual but also for the resources of our health care system. If people end up with cancer, they have to go through that painful, arduous and very costly treatment system, and that, again, prevents other people from going through our system. So why would we not, in good conscience, do things to prevent that?

My background originally was as a recreation director. I’m a big believer in: Let’s keep people active; let’s keep people fit, as opposed to trying to fix them once they’ve gone down a different path. I don’t see this bill as a whole lot different. If we can prevent someone from getting cancer, it’s good for the individual, obviously, but it’s also good for our system and it’s certainly good for our health care system. Through education and improved regulation, we can save lives.

I’d like to just add here that certainly the federal government is also taking a stand on this. They announced in February that they’re proposing nationwide changes that would actually require tanning beds in all provinces to display a health warning label to remind Canadians of those risks. The proposed changes would require all tanning beds to display a health warning decal with the following messages, for example: “Not recommended for use by those under 18 years of age,” “Tanning equipment can cause cancer,” as well as a bolded list of other health risks associated with tanning.

The feds are doing it; other provinces are doing it. It only makes sense that, as one of the leading provinces in our great nation, we should be standing behind that 100%.

The local cancer society volunteers have been in to see me numerous times about this, and I’m proud to be able to bring their message to Queen’s Park, along with our guests in the gallery today who are out there working feverishly in our communities across this great province to try to bring this bill in again. I think everybody has the common goal to ensure that our teens are not put in a position that they may not know the dangers; they may not understand the consequences that may happen to them many, many years down the road in life, and therefore we have to do that.

Even the World Health Organization—in July 2009, their agency for research on cancer monograph working group declared that the use of UV-emitting tanning devices is carcinogenic to humans. That word alone—if any of us have had family or friends suffer from cancer—I’ve unfortunately lost a sister to cancer. My mom is a breast cancer survivor; I have a sister who is a breast cancer survivor. I can only tell you, from watching them go through what they’ve had to—we have a great colleague in the House who’s actually valiantly fighting right now.

Any form of cancer is something that I think we always have to be taking the forefront on. We have to be leading the charge and putting legislation in place to prevent that.

This new carcinogenic classification places tanning beds alongside tobacco smoke, asbestos and uranium as known cancer-causing agents. It would be unfathomable that we would stand in this House and not do something, when you look at those three things that are standing beside—who would allow their child to go into a room filled with uranium or asbestos without some kind of precaution and being able to educate them and ensure that they know that?

The World Health Organization reports that the risk of melanoma is increased by 75% when use of tanning devices starts at age 30 or younger. Again, we really have to take that precaution. We have to ensure that this bill that has been introduced by the minister is something that we take very seriously, that we take very diligently, and we spend the time to do this right. We have to put some legislation in place that’s going to ensure that there are vehicles, and there needs to be some accountability and some enforcement of that if we’re going to do this well.

Facts from the Canadian Dermatology Association suggest that melanoma is now the eighth most frequent cancer in Canada, affecting 5,500 people in 2011 and causing 950 deaths. Again, if we can prevent even one death, it’s worth the time and the effort that we put into putting a bill like this on the floor. We need to get it voted on; we need to get it moving through the House as quickly as possible.

The Canadian Dermatology Association goes on to tell me that melanoma is the most deadly form of skin cancer. Excessive ultraviolet exposure from the sun and sun beds plays a leading role in the development of melanoma and is the most preventable cause of the disease. Again, it just makes common sense. I’m hopeful that all three parties will see it from that perspective and we can bring this bill as quickly as we can.

Looking at all cancers found in the 15-to-29 age group, melanoma was the third most common cancer in young women and represented 11% of new cases. There’s growing evidence that exposure to ultraviolet radiation through the use of tanning beds and sun lamps increases the risk of developing melanoma, especially if exposure begins in adolescence or young adulthood.

Once you’ve been granted adulthood, then I guess the reality is, Speaker—what we would suggest, or what I would certainly suggest to individuals, is that you have the right to make your own choices. But I think it’s our duty protect our youth. It’s our duty to protect those young pages in front of you so that they live a long, prosperous and happy life, Speaker. This type of legislation will help us to be able to do that.

Some general observations, when I was doing some research on this: the general public is aware that tanning outside is harmful. If you spend too much time in the sun, you get a burn, and that burn, over long periods of time, is purported to be one of the causes of establishing cancer. But I think what they often mistakenly believe is that tanning in a salon is a safer alternative to sunbathing, and that’s absolutely not the truth, particularly in those younger years.

I think anything you do should be done in moderation, whether you’re outside sunbathing—and if you’re an adult and want to go to these tanning beds, again, I think you have to do all of this with the knowledge that there could be some concerns down the road.

We’re not opposed to the industry. The industry, I think, is about a billion-dollar industry, and there are about 3,000 tanning salons across the country. As an adult, again, like most things in life, we’re not here to tell you how to live your life; we’re not here to tell you what you can and can’t or should or shouldn’t do. We may offer some helpful suggestions, but I think when it comes to our youth, I’m definitely prepared to stand in this House and take a stand. I’m prepared to take a stand and say that absolutely my job is to protect those youth and ensure that we’re putting legislation in place that will be there as a protection.

We need to work with the industry so that they again are onboard with this and that they’re being proactive in their promotion. And it only makes sense for them. Again, why would any business knowingly do harm to their future customers? I think we can look out and expect that they’re going to support this: the ban for the younger children.

We have to understand that certainly the tanning bed industry is there. Our forum would be to go and consult with the industry to make sure they understand why we’re doing this and ensure that we have their feedback, like anything we do. I think if you do that in a balanced, progressive manner and do it ahead of time and you have that opportunity for consultation, then you can put good legislation in place.

I think my colleague from Whitby–Oshawa has stated again that our job—and particularly in both of our capacities as critics of health care—is that we have to always be on the lookout for things that are going to put any harm in the way of the people who we represent across this great province. It’s our fiduciary responsibility to ensure that we’re taking action when necessary.

We have groups like the Canadian Cancer Society who are out there working very diligently. They’re bringing the message door to door. They’re bringing it to our offices. They’re bringing it to receptions here at Queen’s Park. We, as legislators, I think owe it to them to hear them out and understand where the concerns are.

This has huge, huge, huge economic impacts. If someone gets cancer and goes through the process, there’s hospitalization, there are very costly drugs, there’s the use of the resources of the cancer technologists, the doctors. Speaker, it’s one of those things, again, that, to me, we just always have to be looking at in a proactive sense. We need to ensure that people are not going to be put in harm’s way unknowingly.

One of the articles that I had as research yesterday was talking about how on a cigarette package, for many years, those cigarette packages—people smoked and smoked and smoked, and they never, ever looked. Now, they put on a pretty graphic picture on there to be able to say, “Absolutely, think about what you’re doing before you open this thing and start doing what you’re going to do with those cigarettes.” I think this is very similar. It is a carcinogen, very similar to the cigarettes; it’s a carcinogen similar to asbestos. I think we need to ensure that there are definitely rules in place, that there’s communication, that there are tools and that there are resources.

I think the biggest thing here, Speaker, is that education and communication. I think we have to make sure we are making our youth aware. Equally importantly, we need to make sure that the parents of those youth are aware, because sometimes, like the Internet, kids can go on and they can do their own research, and people may not even know about that.

I think what we need to understand is that this is a very easy thing to implement. The execution will take some work and will take some money to ensure that we roll that out and the industry rolls it out. But I think there’s certainly lots of opportunity to be able to do that, Speaker, and if we just come together as the three parties on the bill, I think it’s what people send us to Queen’s Park to do: to work on these collaborative types of bills that are going to be for the greater good, the benefit of all Ontarians, and I can’t fathom that we wouldn’t do that.

One of my questions, I guess, is: Why hasn’t it already been done? Better late than never. At least it’s here today, and we’ve had the opportunity to speak to this.

Again, I’d like to welcome Joanne Di Nardo and Florentina Stancu-Soare from the Canadian Cancer Society, who are here, and thank them for all of their work and your colleagues’ work across this great province. There are volunteers who are there giving their heart and soul. As I say, I’ve been lobbied three times by the one volunteer in my riding, and she is a wonderful lady. The cancer society office actually, ironically, now has just moved into the office building that my constituency office is in, so I get lobbied on an almost daily basis to some degree.

But I just have to reach out to those volunteers who are out giving their time, their energy and, in many cases, their resources to ensure that we as politicians are hearing it. But they’re also out in the community. They’re running events; they’re running promotional ads. They’re doing everything they can in their power. My hat is off to all of your volunteers of the Canadian Cancer Society for all you do.

As I say, I had a pretty close touch with cancer in my own family. Terry Fox is one of my biggest idols. I just can’t fathom every day getting up and running 26 miles on one leg—with that heart, that determination, that soul—in the weather conditions, uphill, in any weather you can think of, day after day after day. I’m actually a little bit guilty. I should be out running at least once in my lifetime; he did it every single day, and he did that so that others wouldn’t have to suffer like he had to do. He’ll always be inspiring to me, and as cancer impacts all of us in our daily lives, our family members, our friends, there’s not one person, I think, who hasn’t been affected.

Certainly, when I saw this legislation coming before me, it wasn’t very hard to make a determination that I would stand up proudly and support the need for this legislation. Because anything we can do to prevent cancers—and that’s the key here, I think, is that whole prevention, the side of saying, “Let’s not go down that road and try to make you better at the end of the day; let’s ensure that we’re going to do the things that we can up front and be proactive,” which saves our system, but more importantly saves that family and that individual from going through that.

Bill 30 is a measured response to the mounting scientific evidence that points to the known dangers associated with using tanning beds and ultraviolet light treatment for youth. I think what we’re trying to really say here is that some people will come out and they may feel they have a right, they may feel that, “Well, you can’t tell me what I can do and can’t do.” But there are many things with our youth that—again, I don’t think we allow youth to drink alcohol before a certain age; we don’t allow youth to vote until they are 19.

So why would we allow them to go to a tanning bed, something that could drastically impact their health in later years? I get the argument and I have had some people push back and say, “You know, you have to stay out of this stuff. Just let people do their own thing.” Well, yes, that’s true to a point.

I have a 15-year-old and an 18-year-old son, and they’re my biggest treasures. I want them to be here down the road. So I’m a bit of a hard knuckle, maybe, to them and I won’t allow them to go to something like tanning, particularly when they’re under my roof and under the age of 18. That’s just one of my rules. I won’t allow them to smoke, particularly because of those instances of cancer in my family.

In this case I will take a stand and we will say yes, we would be prepared to support that, because it really is putting youth at risk if we don’t do that. I couldn’t walk home and look myself in the mirror if I walked away from this and didn’t do it, Speaker.

As I’ve mentioned a couple of times, and I think Christine has as well, this is going to restrict it to indoor tanning equipment for youth under 18. It’s consistent with existing regulation and minors’ access to other harmful substances like tobacco. These restrictions recognize that youth are less likely to consider—you know, we’ve all been there, Speaker. I think you still think at times that you’re a youthful man. I saw you on the ice the other night when you were trying to referee our Legiskaters and Dentonators game—and I’m proud to say the Legiskaters did win that game.

We appreciate the Ontario Dental Association, and particularly Maggie Head for her organizational efforts in that game. You were trying to relive and recapture a bit of your youth there, Speaker.

Mr. Rick Nicholls: He’s been very trying, at times.

Mr. Bill Walker: He’s been very trying, at times.

Getting back to this point, we have to restrict this; we have to always be putting our youth—they are our future. That’s a bit of a cliché that gets used maybe too often in some cases, but they truly are our leaders. They’re our next generation. They’re why we are here. I won’t speak for all of my 107 colleagues in this House, but it’s certainly why I came here: to make a better future for my kids, and hopefully someday grandkids, down the road. Something like this certainly allows us to take a step in that direction and have a small influence on at least one person’s life, if we do it well.

Dr. Samir Gupta, chair of the Ontario Medical Association’s dermatology section, states: “The evidence has been unequivocal over the last several years that tanning bed radiation is linked to skin cancer.” So again, we have the medical background, we have the proof that this really does cause challenges, so why would we not step up and do the right thing here? “It’s the sun exposure you’re getting in your early years that predicts skin cancer later on.”

So again, a bit of a shout-out to those youth and to those parents who are listening or who are in the gallery with us today: Be educating your kids at that young age. Don’t allow your children at 6, 7, 8, 10, 12 years of age be out in the sun getting baked and fried. I have the odd occasion to go to a beach—I have beautiful beaches in the riding of Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound; Sauble Beach is one of the nicest seven-mile stretches of beach you’re going to find in the world. People come from all over the world to sun themselves there.

You walk down the streets sometimes, when I’m out visiting my constituents in the beach area, and they’re just as red as a beetroot. It doesn’t take long anymore. On certain days in the height of summer, 10 minutes, or maybe 15 minutes at the very most, without the proper suntan lotion on, and you can be fried. That, over a prolonged period, if you keep doing it—yes, you’re going to look nice and crystal bronze at the end of the summer, maybe, but boy, what’s your health worth?

Looking good when you’re 16 or 15 or 10 or 12, as opposed to having to go through—I think it might be helpful if we took all of our youth through a cancer ward and let them see what happens to someone who thought they were invincible in their youth. We all go through that. I’m certainly not standing here and saying I didn’t make mistakes—and still don’t make lots of mistakes, in fact.

But when it comes to my health care, one of the things I’ve certainly seen, working close to a hospital in my former capacity as the executive director of a hospital foundation, is how much our health really means and how much people don’t really value it until they’re sick. Many people would come into my office to make a donation because a doctor was, in many cases, able to help them, or a nurse or a nurse practitioner. They say, “You know, I just wish I had used more common sense when I was younger. I really just wish I hadn’t gone down that road, because now I see how much it’s costing.

I see the drain and the emotional stress I’m putting on my family to go through this type of illness.” It’s just one of those ones that, to me—an ounce of prevention is a pound of cure. I really think we have to be thinking that with this type of thing.

Bill 30 is going to require tanning bed operators to request identification from people who appear to be under 25. I think that’s a pretty reasonable request. Some people, in their vanity, still like to go out to certain establishments, and I think they actually take it as a bit of an identification tag if they get asked for ID. So in this case I don’t think there’s anything wrong, again. I’d rather err, if I was the person, in asking a 26-year-old, even, or a 30-year-old, maybe, in some cases. I think they’ll take that as a good-natured thing and they’ll know that I’m doing it not because I’m trying to be the enforcer but because I truly, honestly care and want to do something with you.

Bill 30 is consistent with the laws in tobacco sales, which again stipulate that tobacco cannot be sold to a person who appears to be under 25 unless that person produces identification identifying and indicating they are of majority age.

It also requires tanning bed owners to post signs about the ban and the health risks associated. So again, a little more reality. When I walk in—back to those cigarette packages that have the warning label on and that picture that certainly stops me in my tracks. I’ve never been a smoker. My brothers are quite a bit older than I, and they gave me a cigarette. I unfortunately was ill. They gave me a pipe five minutes later and I was unfortunately ill. And five minutes later they gave me a cigar and I was unfortunately ill.

The only other time: When my goddaughter was born, my best buddy said, “You’ve got to have a cigar to celebrate her life.” I took one little puff. I didn’t inhale, because I knew what was going to happen: I was sick all over. That was the end of my smoking career. And I’m proud to say that.

There’s not a lot of people that I’ve been out with in that generation who didn’t at least try it. Some of them, unfortunately, became addicted to cigarettes, and I worry about them, because I think that cancer thing is going to nip them at some point down the road. Every day I try to influence them to stop. Certainly my family members, now that I’ve lost a sister and have two other family members who have cancer—I try every day to do that. This is just one of those other opportunities for me to do my little

part in some little way.

If one of our pages today, from listening to this, chooses not to go into a tanning salon until they’re at least over 25 or 30, if one of them chooses not to smoke cigarettes or a pipe or any of the other horrible things that are out there at their beck and call, then I’ve done my little part and I’ll go home happy at the end of the day saying I’ve at least made a difference. To the pages: Please take this very seriously. It is something that you have to be very cognizant of. Talk to your friends. If you know friends who are going, get them some education.

Walk with them, show them, go to a tanning salon and see if this information is there. Go to your cancer society and get the information to stop them from there.

To give teeth to this regulation, Bill 30 authorizes inspectors to enforce these requirements. There are going to be fines in place of $5,000 for individuals and $25,000 for corporations, so this is no small matter, and if there are, as there many times are—there can be a bad apple in an industry—if they’re out doing this and they’re continuing to let people under 18 in, then we have to put some teeth in that will prohibit that and at least act as a deterrent for those people.

Finally, Bill 30 requires that all tanning bed operators provide the local medical officer of health with the name, business address and telephone number where the tanning service or ultraviolet treatment is sold. At least now, we’re going to know where these things are. We’re going to know each establishment so they can be inspected properly. We can ensure that they’re following the regulations and, if not, like anything that has well served the people of Ontario, there needs to be accountability. The rules are the rules. We treat everyone the same way.

If you’re not willing to abide by the rules, then there need to be some consequences. That’s a message that, again, I follow in life. We all have choices. We all have the ability to make choices, but there are consequences to each of the decisions we make. In cases like this, when you’re taking advantage of, particularly, a youth, I think we need some teeth in the regulation to be able to go in. They’re there trying to make money; well, this is a good way to deter it: by putting some pretty hefty fines.

There will be a registry of tanning equipment operators so that, if passed, this legislation can be overseen and enforced. As I was saying earlier, we’re going to know exactly where every one of these is across the province, and if you were ever to walk into one and it wasn’t registered—there should be a label there saying, “I’m a registered salon owner.” It’s only good for their industry, so they should be helping us weed those bad characters out. But if you ever did, as an individual, walk in, the first thing you should do is call your medical officer of health and report it so we can get that out of the system. We just can’t afford to go down there.

As I mentioned earlier, this is the most deadly form of skin cancer, and it increases by 1.8% with each additional tanning session per year. So if you had 20 of those, then it’s 20% more likely you’re going to get cancer down the road. It’s one of those things that you have to think—again, the novelty of a tan and looking great because of some magazine or some promotional activity isn’t worth your health. It’s just not worth putting you and/or your family—and our system, for that matter—through the cost to treat someone from a cancer that could have been prevented.

I harp on, and I’ll continue to harp on, with my recreation background: Let’s prevent the things that we have control over. Let’s not try to fix them once we allow people to get cancer. Let’s not allow a business to operate that knowingly puts at risk youth who are going to, at some point down the road in their life, get cancer and we’re going to have to treat that and try to make them better.

Interjection: Be proactive.

Mr. Bill Walker: Be proactive; absolutely.

A study conducted on behalf of the Canadian Cancer Society showed that between 2006 and 2012, the use of tanning beds more than doubled, from 7% to 16%, among Ontario students in grades 11 and 12. That’s horrendous. It’s going in the wrong direction, and it’s exactly why we need this type of legislation to be able to help.

Interjection: Vanity.

Mr. Bill Walker: Vanity is very—I was almost going to say “important,” and that’s the wrong word. Vanity, unfortunately, is a very powerful motivator for some people, and again, particularly at an age—and I’m not saying anything disrespectful to youth, because there are very bright, intelligent youth who do make very wise and good choices, but there is a percentage of the population who don’t do that.

This type of legislation is required to ensure that that won’t happen, and at least, at the very end of the day, we’re forcing those students of that age group to look and say, “Is this really worth it?” Do you really know what you’re doing when you lie under that bed? Do you really know that there are proven clinical studies that this is going to increase your chance of cancer later in life? We have to ensure that we stand up for our youth. They are our future.

The research is clear that the main environmental risk factor for skin cancer is exposure to that ultraviolet radiation from the sun and through indoor tanning. It is important to clarify that exposure to UV rays is linked to skin cancer—I’ve said that earlier—and that UV rays from tanning beds can be even more harmful than those rays outside. I’d don’t know why that is, I’m not really into the technology side of things, but just think of being encapsulated in a little bed and those rays are right there. You can’t move. There’s nothing between you and those rays getting at you. So we have to do the things that we can at this point.

I’ve got some petitions here—in fact, a whole raft of petitions—“Fight Cancer,” and these are from many, many constituents across my great riding of Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound. I know we’re not supposed to use props, and I’m not using it for that, Speaker, but I wanted to make sure that you could see that these are people who have signed their names to them, saying, “I absolutely agree with this.” It goes on, “I’m concerned about the health risks associated with indoor tanning.” It causes melanoma, the deadliest form of skin cancer.

It’s one of the most common types of cancer for youth between the ages of 15 and 29 and is one of the most preventable diseases. Cancer is a reality facing all communities across Canada. Based on current diagnosis rates, two in five Canadians will develop cancer during their lifetime—two in five. That’s unbelievable. We need to be doing more to ensure that people don’t have to go through and bear the pain, the agony, the emotional stress and duress that this horrible, horrible disease causes. An estimated one out of every four Canadians is expected to die from cancer.

There are all kinds of fundraisers; there are all kinds of research. I’m a big proponent of supporting those research efforts to ensure that at some point—and as I allude back to my hero, Terry Fox, we will, at some point, find a cure. I’m certain of that. We have to do it sooner than later because it is such a huge drain on the family structure, on the family unit.

The stress that I see families go through—in my own family, it was horrendous. To watch a sister—she died in three days. She went to the hospital on Wednesday, and she never came home Sunday. She didn’t even know she had it. But, unfortunately, she was a 35-year smoker, and that, at some point, I trust was the cause. She had lung cancer, and it spread through her whole body. She didn’t even know she was ill. That was the most horrifying thing that I have ever gone through.

If we can do anything in this House, this is one of the things that—I think we should be standing up, and we should be expediting this bill to get it through. We don’t need to be standing in this House, speaking about this for hours, let alone days upon weeks. We need to get this done. We need to ensure that none of those pages in front of you, or the great youth across our province, ever go through this on something that we can prevent today. We could have this done and through, and I would hope that the government of the day would take this bill, of all bills, and expedite it through. There’s absolutely nothing that I think should stand in the way.

To me, when people take time to actually walk to my office, fax my office and hand-sign something—in any career I’ve had, if you’re willing to put it in writing, I’ve got time to listen to you. This is something that people have taken the time and got them—and I trust, from the cancer society, that these are across the province. These are probably in every one of our offices, and I think you could probably fill the Clerks’ table. I’m going to submit these to the Clerks’ table today, if I could have a page come up, and I’ll have them delivered to the Clerks’ table.

The other thing, I think, that I want and I haven’t—thank you very much, page Amina. Thank you so much. I hope you’re enjoying your time here, you and your colleagues. The other thing I haven’t talked about and alluded to is there are other ways. We can do other things. Some people will say that they go to the tanning salon because they want to get vitamin D. Well, there are lots of other ways of getting vitamin D without putting yourself in harm’s way and accepting the risks that come with those tanning beds—for instance, through safe exposure to the sun and taking supplements.

I mean, again, the sun is actually good for us. We need that sun. If it goes away, despite what Wiarton Willie says—at times, he doesn’t want the sun to come out. Some people do, some people don’t, without a shadow of a doubt. He’s a bit like a politician because 50% of the time he’s right and 50% of the time he’s wrong with the people out there. But he wants to see the sun. We all need to see the sun.

In those February blah days when we haven’t seen it for a while, you can tell people’s energy levels are going down. People are getting a bit grumpy, even in this House. Mr. Leal, sometimes, you would agree with me that maybe people in this House get grumpy around February at times because they haven’t seen the sun enough. They haven’t got that vitamin D quotient. Would you confer with that?

Hon. Jeff Leal: The odd time.

Interjection: Eat tomatoes.

Hon. Jeff Leal: Eat tomatoes.

Mr. Bill Walker: Eat tomatoes. There you go. Thank you so much. So, see, even across the floor, we’re actually finally working together. We’re able to work collaboratively to find some help and some cure for our vitamin D deficiencies. Maybe if we all took a bit more, this place would be a little bit more friendly. I think your colleague, Speaker, talks about the downward spiral, and I think we can all support that upward spiral.

Mr. Rick Nicholls: Eat the tomatoes; don’t throw them.

Mr. Bill Walker: Eat the tomatoes; don’t throw them. That’s right.

The main reasons students give for using tanning beds are feeling they look better with a tan, getting a tan before going on vacation or for special occasions and because of peer influence. We hear that with all kinds of things: alcohol, drugs. But this is really no different. This is one of those ones that, again, if all of your colleagues are saying, “I want to look tanned,” and, “I want to look spiffy, like that

article in the Glamour magazine,” it’s a very tough thing to overturn.

I say, again, to all the youth who may be out there: Please stand strong. Please show your will. Please show your conviction, and also step up for your other friends who may be doing it. Grab them by the hand and say, “Look, I just want to have a chat. Do you know?” Come and see one of us. Come and see someone in the cancer society who has the information to be able to show you.

To look out for our youth’s best interests, we must appropriately address these products and services that put youth at considerable risk. As Progressive Conservatives, we don’t believe in creating bans just for the sake of it. In fact, we continually, in this House, say we need to get rid of legislation and regulation that is not serving the people. There is an inordinate amount of regulation and legislation, and at times, I think there are organizations that say that that’s their only job: to move paper around. That, absolutely, we don’t want. But this is the type of legislation—this is the type of regulation—that we are proud to stand behind.

There’s a demonstrable need when we’re talking about tanning bed use among minors. We need to ensure that at every step, at every opportunity—that’s why I’ve talked for almost 30 minutes on this. It may be a bit redundant in places, but I feel compelled to repeat it and repeat it and repeat it, because at some point, that extra time you’ve said it may just actually resonate with someone. They may just actually stop in their tracks and say, “You know what? I’m going to spend some time. I’m going to think about what Mr. Walker just said”—or Ms. Elliott or whoever else may speak on this bill in this House.

We need to be doing the proactive things. We need to ensure we’re going to have the ability to put regulation that’s going to serve the people.

I’m just going to conclude, if I can. We’re going to put Bill 30—I certainly hope we’re going to put Bill 30 in again. I implore the Liberal government, who controls what comes to the House and how quickly it goes through the House in second reading and third reading, to make this a priority. Let’s not spend hours and days in this House.

I think Christine did a marvellous job of putting out the thought process, being able to share information and educate and communicate to people the ills that are associated with tanning beds. I think she was very articulate in what she said and on how this bill can address some of those and it can be a preventative. It can be doing our due diligence on behalf of our youth to ensure that there are regulations in place, that there are consequences if people are rogues and want to continue to run tanning beds illegally and allow those people under 18 years of age in.

I think what we want to do is make sure that this legislation—An Act to regulate the selling and marketing of tanning services and ultraviolet light treatments—is legislated, approved and, in fact, executed as soon as possible. It would be a great acknowledgement for all the work that our Canadian Cancer Society volunteers do in every single one of our communities. Again, I do a heartfelt shout-out for all of the work that you do. I know that sometimes it’s trudging through the laneways in the middle of winter, door-knocking and doing those things.

Raising funds and running fundraisers is a lot of work, a lot of time and a lot of volunteer energy and resources. My hat is off to you and every single person in your organization, because you are actually making a difference in people’s lives.

We are only a small part here—that we can help enhance that effort on your behalf. It’s my hope that today we can get this through, we can get all three parties’ support, get it to the table, get it through, get it passed and make it legislation, so that tomorrow those labels will go out the door and we will actually help our youth down the road.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Mr. Jonah Schein: I’m happy to speak to Bill 30, to ban these tanning beds to youth, and happy to hear the comments from the two members who spoke this morning, from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound and from Whitby–Oshawa—very sensible comments we’ve heard this morning. It’s the kind of good common sense that we should hear more of in these chambers.

Cancer touches all of us. As recently as two years ago, I lost a good friend and a co-worker—far too young. He was the age that I am right now. He died just down the street at the hospital, from melanoma. He was not a tanning bed user; he was just somebody who was unfortunate.

But I think that when we have the power to actually combat cancer, we need to do that. This is an obvious bill—this is an obvious step—to promote better health and to fight cancer in Ontario, and that’s why I think it’s clear and obvious that New Democrats will support this bill.

In fact, I think we should note that it was the member from Nickel Belt, our health critic, France Gélinas, who brought this forward for years. I look at the approach that Ms. Gélinas takes to health, and I think that this is what we should be talking about. This is the approach we should have in this House and in this province. We heard it echoed this morning from folks here.

This idea that we need to do the things upfront to promote health and to protect the health of people here—when you look at the provincial budget, there’s obviously a problem with the budget right now and the growing costs of health care. All of these costs are about responding to sickness, and so few steps are taken to stop people from getting sick in the first place. I think we need an entirely different framework when it comes to health care in this province. When I talk to France Gélinas, these are the things that she tells me. There is so much that we can do as a society to make people healthier.

I’m happy to hear the member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound talk about our duty to protect youth. I do think that we have a duty to protect youth, to protect all of us, to promote good health, and I’d like to see more of this approach from all members in this assembly.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments? Who’s up? The Minister of Community and Social Services—we have a teeter-totter going here.

Interjections.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The Minister of Community and Social Services.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: I’m just absolutely delighted to respond to the member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound. As one who’s experienced, both in my family and personally, the fear of cancer—and I know what it does to one. Thank goodness for the cancer society and the cancer support groups around the province who are there to assist families to cope with this.

This bill just makes sense. It made sense two years ago, it made sense five years ago and certainly it makes sense today. The sooner we can mobilize the often slow-to-be-mobilized resources of this place to get this bill discussed in all the readings where that’s required and have it become law, the sooner we’ll be able to look at ourselves in the mirror in the morning and say, “Hey, maybe we did something useful the other day when we passed the bill.”

Ms. Sarah Campbell: Finally, after 10 years.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Yes. Well, there’s never a wrong time to do the right thing, right? I stand with those who favour moving forward.

I was particularly impressed with the young man’s—sorry—the honourable member’s presentation.

Interjections.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Us young guys have to stick together, right?

He captured it well, as did his colleague from—Ajax?

Mrs. Christine Elliott: Whitby–Oshawa.

Hon. Ted McMeekin: Whitby–Oshawa, okay—and colleagues in the third party, and I know all my colleagues here. It’s time to move forward. It’s never a wrong time to do the right thing. Let’s get at it.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Mr. Rick Nicholls: Again, I want to applaud the efforts of my honourable colleague from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound and my honourable colleague from Whitby–Oshawa—is that correct? As I listen to other members within our esteemed Legislature, I’m thrilled to see that this bill will pass; this bill will get through.

As a father of three and an occasional user, in the past, of tanning beds—but even my children—I would watch them and caution them, “Don’t go in those tanning beds.” But now, through the efforts of our cancer society and bringing forward the carcinogenic aspects of tanning beds on young people and on people in general, and the fact that it does cause cancer—at least as a parent I want to ensure that my children are safe and not able to go in those tanning beds. Unfortunately, they’re beyond that 18 years of age or 19 years of age, but again I look at it and I say, “You know what? We can still protect today’s youth.”

We look at health care costs throughout this entire province, and health care is the number one expense of this government. Let’s be proactive. Let’s use preventive approaches to protect today’s youth because today’s youth will be tomorrow’s aging population, and with an aging population, all of a sudden you get the melanoma; you get the other effects of cancer. That’s not a good thing, and that just escalates costs as well.

Let’s protect our loved ones. Let’s warn them in advance that tanning beds, especially at young ages and with tender young skin, are not a healthy thing. They need to be protected; as adults, let’s protect our youth for tomorrow.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Questions and comments?

Ms. Cheri DiNovo: It needs to be stated quite categorically, I think: There is absolutely nothing healthy-looking about a tan. We know that most of the users of tanning beds are young women, so this is a women’s issue. As women’s critic, I wanted to focus on that.

The member spoke about the role that the beauty industry and the fashion industry play in this. I have to tell you, my daughter works for a dermatologist, and he and she will tell you that there’s nothing pretty about the effects of sun damage over time. Women need to get the message that tanning doesn’t make you prettier; it makes you uglier over time. We know—we’re women; come on, let’s be real—we like to look good. So do men, of course. But the message has to get out. We need the beauty industry onside; we need the fashion industry onside. We need to get the message to our daughters, to our granddaughters, very, very clearly and succinctly.

Of course we support this bill. It’s again the member from Nickel Belt’s bill, brought in via the government. We want to see it passed as quickly as possible. But I think, once it’s passed, there’s still a great deal of work to do, and the work to do is this: to get the message out that there’s nothing healthy-looking about a tan and there’s nothing beautiful or cute about a tan either, and to show the effects—as we’ve shown the effects of cigarette smoking—of tanning and the sun on skin over time.

I can tell you, we in Canada are prettier. I’ve talked to Australians and those people who are out in the sun in Australia a lot of the time. We look younger up here. Why? One simple difference: We’re not as exposed to the sun as often. Any dermatologist will tell you this. Anybody who works in a clinic and sees the effects will tell you this.

We need to get that message out to our daughters and our granddaughters. We ask the beauty industry and the fashion industry to help us do that. There’s nothing healthy-looking about a tan.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): The member from Whitby–Oshawa has two minutes.

Mrs. Christine Elliott: I really think we’ve had a very productive discussion today on an issue that we can all agree on: that Bill 30 is a bill that should be passed without any further delay. The time has come, though it has been presented before. I do really thank the member for Nickel Belt for her efforts in this respect. I think the time has come now for us all to move forward with it.

I would like to thank, first of all, my colleague the member from Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound for his very thoughtful remarks, as well as the remarks by the member for Davenport, the Minister of Community and Social Services, the member for Chatham–Kent–Essex and the member from Parkdale–High Park.

I think everybody has added a lot of their own experience to this, and I think it’s fair to say that no family is immune to the ravages of cancer. In my own situation, both of my parents passed away at a very young age due to cancer. It’s something that we need to be vigilant against and to do anything that we can to make sure we can protect our young people from developing cancer down the road.

I would agree entirely with the member from Parkdale–High Park, who said that this is very much a young women’s issue, although young men are also involved in it. I have three sons. I can’t say that tanning beds were ever an issue with them. We’ve had other issues, but not tanning beds. But I think, certainly, with a lot of young women, having a tanned appearance, primarily to go to prom and to other special occasions, is really an important thing. We really need to get the message out there that it is not healthy over the long term and you don’t want to have that leathery appearance as you get older and to expose yourself to cancer when you don’t need to.

I’m really happy this has come forward. I’m really pleased that the representatives from the Canadian Cancer Society were here today. I would also like to sincerely thank all of the volunteers in all of our communities who do so much work in promoting the efforts of the cancer society, the work that they’re trying to do, and in raising money for the cause. Many volunteers are out this month, so if they come to your door, please give generously. Thank you.

Second reading debate deemed adjourned.

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): It being close to 10:15, this House stands recessed until 3 o’clock this afternoon.

Mr. Mike Colle: No question period today?

The Acting Speaker (Mr. Paul Miller): Sorry; 10:30.

The House recessed from 1013 to 1030.

INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

Ms. Lisa MacLeod: Mr. Speaker, I’m not introducing anybody, but I grew up in a little place called New Glasgow, Nova Scotia, and I just wanted to acknowledge today the passing of Canadian musical icon Rita MacNeil, who I got to meet when I was 11 years old, who brought an enormous amount of joy to the people of Nova Scotia and Canada. I wanted to express condolences to her family. Thank you.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I won’t steal one of her statements on that, but I appreciate it very much. I had a chance to meet her as well.

Mr. Paul Miller: It’s my pleasure to introduce my dear wife, Carole Paikin-Miller, in the west gallery.

Hon. Harinder S. Takhar: I would like to introduce two friends of mine in the Legislature today: one is Robin Singh—Robin is from Brampton—and the other is Randhir Rai; he’s from Orangeville. I really want to extend them a very, very warm welcome to the Legislature.

Mr. Garfield Dunlop: I want to, first of all, say that people will be joining us in the gallery very shortly from the Ontario Association of Career Colleges, led by their director, Paul Kitchin. I want everybody to give them a warm welcome.

Mr. Jonah Schein: For the first time ever, I’d like to welcome students from City View Alternative: Myles Wyton-Fraser, Katie Newhouse, Dune Brule and Murley Herrle-Fanning. Welcome to the Legislature.

Hon. Tracy MacCharles: I’d like to introduce the parents of page Stacey Fernandes, page captain today, from my riding of Pickering–Scarborough East. Her father, Alex Fernandes, and mother, Susan Fernandes, are here joining us today. Thanks for being here. Welcome to the Legislature.

Mr. Randy Pettapiece: I’d like to introduce to the House today the 2013 Ontario Queen of the Furrow, Sara Little, and her friend Chris Wood.

Mr. Bill Mauro: Last week I had the opportunity to introduce a page from my riding, Kamryn Hartley. It’s a big day for Kamryn. Kamryn is the page captain today, and she’s joined in the members’ east gallery by her mother—who has not left her side for two weeks, I think—Christie Hartley; and also by her grandfather from Pass Lake, Ontario, James Isaksen. We’re thrilled to have them here with us today.

Mr. Jim Wilson: I’d like to welcome from my riding Beth Dodwell and Emerson Wargel. They won a Lunch With Your MPP certificate from the Taste of the Town fundraising event held by the Gibson Centre in Alliston. God bless them, and welcome.

Mr. Steven Del Duca: It’s my pleasure to rise and acknowledge—I believe in one of the galleries today the legislative intern who is working in my office currently, Andrea Ernesaks, is here with us, from Ottawa originally. She’s doing a really fantastic job, and I’m happy to have her in my office.

Mr. Todd Smith: I’d like to welcome a large contingent from Prince Edward county, making the bus trip here this morning. They’re from POOCH, which stands for Patrons of Our County Hospital. They’ll be rallying outside later to protect services and beds at Picton memorial hospital.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I am delighted to welcome Zoe Letwin. She’s the outreach coordinator at Partners in Research in London, a wonderful organization. Welcome, Zoe.

ORAL QUESTIONS

POWER PLANTS

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Good morning, Speaker. Good morning, Premier. My question is for you. We have long said that someone has purposely removed documents. After weeks of testimony, we learned yesterday just how this charade actually worked. Your government, Premier, told the OPA to remove pages that said words like “TransCanada,” “southwest GTA” and other words like that because they didn’t precisely fit the scope. After removing thousands of pages, you turned over 36,000 documents. Then, Speaker, someone wised up and realized that this charade may actually be breaking the law, and 20,000 pages, including the ones originally removed, were turned over.

With pages still missing, Premier, is this your idea of transparency? Premier, just what is it you don’t want Ontarians to find out?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: Thank you very much—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I’m going to start right off the bat. Thank you.

Government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: Mr. Speaker, again, I think all of us recognize that there is important work that’s going on in the committee, and that work should continue. But if the honourable member wants to hold hearings on the floor of the Legislature, I’m quite happy to talk about some of the things that have gone on in the committee.

His reference, I believe, is to an individual by the name of Jesse Kulendran, who is an official in the Ministry of Energy—from what I understand, a mid-level official. There was a story that came out which she has denied in front of the committee.

I’d also like to quote from the Deputy Minister of Energy, who was asked this very question. He’s someone whom the member who asked the question has called a credible and very solid witness. He testified the following—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Hon. John Milloy: Okay; I’ll wait for the supplementary.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): You certainly will. Supplementary?

Mr. Victor Fedeli: With all that tap dancing, Mr. Speaker, I actually thought he would end with jazz hands with that one.

The auditor told us that there were 10 side deals negotiated before you gave the company a sole-sourced deal to build a plant right next door to the one you’re closing. Speaker, let me give you an example of Liberal negotiating. The company sought $7 million in damages on an unrelated issue from years gone by. As a precondition to even start negotiating, the company demanded that the government pay them $15.4 million to satisfy that $7-million court case.

Premier, in your zeal to get this done, you went ahead and paid them that money and then forgave $700,000 in court fees that they were ordered to pay. And to make sure no one ever heard of it, you buried this in a side deal. What other side deals did you do for Oakville?

Hon. John Milloy: Mr. Speaker, the honourable member can’t get away with dropping the drive-by smear that he had in the first question.

I’d like to quote the Deputy Minister of Energy, whom the honourable member himself called a credible and very solid witness. Here’s what the deputy had to say: “I never directed Jesse to go to the OPA and ask them to exclude documents. I never myself directed the OPA to exclude … documents. When I talked to Jesse about the allegations, she told me … that she did not direct the OPA. I have no reason to not believe what Jesse has” said.

Furthermore, Peter Wallace, the secretary of cabinet, launched an investigation into these allegations and confirmed that there was absolutely no evidence that Ms. Kulendran acted inappropriately.

Mr. Speaker, the honourable member owes an apology to—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

For the second time, the member from Leeds–Grenville will come to order, and I think he knows why I’m asking him to refrain.

Final supplementary.

Mr. Victor Fedeli: Premier, let me tell you how the taxpayers and the ratepayers are paying for this $15.4-million gift, seeing as you don’t want to talk about it. Ten million dollars came through Dwight Duncan when he announced that the cancellation rose from $180 million to $190 million. The extra $5.4 million was paid to the company—this is all from the AG’s report—for a new power agreement, but allowed them to simply keep the money if the site wasn’t deemed viable.

But the auditor told us on page 15 that you knew the site wasn’t viable even before you made the deal, so the company simply got to keep the $5.4-million gift. Now that these facts have come out, maybe it’s something the Attorney General will be looking into.

Premier, I ask you again: Tell us now about all of the other side deals made for Oakville.

Hon. John Milloy: Mr. Speaker, again, the honourable member forgets the obvious, which is that his party, in the 2011 election campaign, stated that if they were elected they would shut down the Mississauga plant.

We’ve seen the YouTube video. We’ve seen the Leader of the Opposition as he stands there, surrounded by adoring PC candidates, promising to the community that if he is elected—on a question from Mr. Brennan of the Toronto Star—it was going to be done—“done, done, done.” His candidates went out and said that the only way to stop this plant was to elect a Tim Hudak government. The fact of the matter is that their party was equally intent. It was a promise they made and a promise we kept.

POWER PLANTS

Mr. John Yakabuski: My question is for the Premier. Premier, unless you’ve abdicated, I hope you’ll actually answer the questions. This is getting tiresome. You say you want to be open and transparent, but all of your actions show exactly the opposite. In his press conference on Monday, the auditor said that you deliberately changed the language you were using to confuse the public about the total cost of the Mississauga gas plant cancellation. We’ve asked your energy minister to do the right thing and correct his record for repeatedly misinforming the House, but he’s refused to do that.

A pattern is emerging and your claims of transparency are being revealed as not standing up to the smell test. Will you now admit that you’ve been deliberately lowballing the cost of these cancellations to give the public a false impression of how much of their money you’ve wasted?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Again, I want to thank the auditor for his work. I want to thank him for what he has done. We are accepting his findings, and he’s provided a longer-term assessment by estimating cost and savings over 20 years; I said that yesterday. What the auditor does is provide an objective and independent report. I just want to remind the House and remind the member opposite that I asked the auditor to look at the Oakville situation. I asked the auditor in the name of openness and transparency.

I have said from the beginning that I want all the information and all the questions that are being asked to be answered. That’s why I asked the auditor to look at the Oakville situation. I’m not going to pre-empt his report—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew asked the question. I know he wants to hear the answer.

Finish, please.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: In fact, the auditor is appearing in committee today, I understand, so the member opposite would have an opportunity to ask the auditor questions today.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. John Yakabuski: Back to the Premier: We’ve been languishing in the muck and the mire in committee for months now, looking into your political decision to cancel those gas plants. Witness after witness has provided sworn testimony that disputes your story and the stories of other Liberal loyalists. When you took over from Dalton McGuinty, you promised the public transparency, but just last week the former chief of staff to the Minister of Energy admitted to breaking the law by destroying his email records related to the gas plant cancellation. What was the reaction of your new government to this revelation? The trademark old McGuinty shrug.

Premier, you can end this. After all, isn’t that what you and your new government have promised? It’s time to come clean with the people of Ontario. Release all of the details relating to all the costs on Oakville.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: To the Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: I’m glad that they’re speaking about the Oakville relocation now because the auditor has reported on Mississauga. But I’m very pleased to speak to the Oakville situation. I have in my hand a notice that was on the website of the OPA on September 24, 2012. I also have a memorandum of understanding that was on the website, and it’s been there since September 2012. It’s a legal agreement between TransCanada Energy Ltd., the Ontario Power Authority and Her Majesty the Queen. I want to refer to

schedule B, the reimbursement agreement. All the details of the reimbursement agreement are on

schedule B.

There is also

schedule A, what the OPA agreement is all about. This has been translated into a 500-page document, which is also on the site. I’d like to have one of the pages come over here, please, and I’d like—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you. Final supplementary.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated. Stop the clock—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Excuse me. That’s my job.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): I wish some people would take that advice.

Final supplementary.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Back to the Premier. Premier, you sound just like your predecessor when you defend the indefensible. After serving your entire career as a McGuinty Liberal, you just don’t seem to know any other way. Why do you keep insisting on playing this game when no one believes you anymore? Your energy minister still contends that the cost of cancelling the Oakville plant will be $40 million, but JoAnne Butler, a highly respected OPA vice-president, testified under oath that the cost at Oakville will be between $769 million and $926 million, and that your government has been aware of this for months.

Premier, here’s what the people deserve: the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. You have fallen far from the lofty principles you claim to hold dear when you took this office. Did you ever really believe in those principles, or have the trappings of power destroyed every ounce of integrity that you ever had?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please. Thank you.

Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Mr. Speaker, the volume and the emotion is not reflected by the facts. That’s the reality.

I sent over a copy of a memorandum of understanding of the Oakville agreement with TransCanada Energy. It sets out all of the costs, the parameters of the agreement, and that has been public and on the website since September 12, 2012.

Mr. Speaker, I think it’s time the committee turned its attention to the issue of how we site these energy facilities moving forward. The Premier has been very open in expanding the mandate of the committee so that we can correct the mistake that was made. The mistake was in how we were siting. We have admitted that that needs to be rectified, and the committee has the mandate to deal with that issue.

I would like the member from Renfrew to respond to the document I sent over, which is a legal agreement with respect to Oakville.

GOVERNMENT’S RECORD

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Premier. Ontarians want to trust that their government will put them first, but instead they see a government paying $150 million to a hedge fund in the US when it could have put 25,000 young people to work. They see a government that’s creating a new tax loophole to help wealthy corporations pay to wine and dine their customers, their clients, while at the same time they’re asking Ontarians to pay more. They see a government that has told them it would cost $190 million to cancel a gas plant and now it turns out it cost $275 million.

It’s the same old status quo, the same old politics as usual here in Ontario. Does the Premier understand why this is a problem for people?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I just want to be clear, and this is in response to the leader of the third party’s question but it’s in response to this situation. That is that as soon as I was appointed Premier we said that we were going to put in place a process that would allow every piece of information that was being asked for, that we would work to expand the mandate of committees so that all of the information could be made available.

The reality is that a political decision was made to cancel the gas plant. There was a cost associated with that. I regret that those decisions weren’t made earlier. I wish that we had had a better process in place so that we weren’t standing here in this situation today, that all of us wouldn’t be in a situation where these costs had to be paid. The reality is, there was a cost to implementing the decision that all the parties agreed with, Mr. Speaker. I’m glad that the questions are being answered.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, the Premier has asked the civil service to use the term “new government,” but I don’t see much new: A government that still gives well-connected insiders billion-dollar tax breaks at the same time that families get asked to pay more; a Premier who has had months and months to set the record straight about the cost of the gas plants, but won’t come clean.

People want to see the government put them first instead of putting insiders first. Does the Premier understand that people are frustrated with a government that says it’s new but instead it’s the same old status quo?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: You know, I’m not going to attempt to speak for every person in Ontario, but I really believe that what the people of Ontario want is, they want the answers—

Mr. John Yakabuski: The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew is now going to be told that this is it.

Now, I want to refresh everyone’s memory—stop the clock, please—and that is, when I say you are warned, you don’t have any chances after that, just to be clear.

Mr. John Yakabuski: Am I warned?

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Did I say it? Would you like me to? Fine. I’m just—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): We could go back and forth, but the point is very clear here. I have said this before and I’ll say it again: This is a very difficult situation that we’re trying to deal with. It deserves our attention, but it’s not going to be at the sake of decorum, so let’s keep it down.

Please finish, Premier.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Thank you very much. The auditor has provided the Legislature with objective and independent information, an independent report, and that’s as it should be. I believe that’s what the people of Ontario deserve: to have an independent review of what was a political decision that had a cost associated with it. That’s the reality.

I wish that we had made the decision earlier. We didn’t, and we implemented a political decision that everyone—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: What they don’t deserve is a Liberal government that pays off US hedge funds instead of investing in jobs or strengthening health care in this province. They also don’t deserve a government that’s making life more affordable for the wealthiest corporations instead of making life more affordable for hard-working families. In fact, they’re trying to figure out why the public—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. It’s very unfair to the leader of the third party when I can’t hear the question and the heckling is with the other party. Let’s give them an opportunity to ask that question in a fair way.

Leader, please.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: In fact, what they’re trying to figure out is why the public should be on the hook to pay for decisions made by the Liberal Party for the benefit of the Liberal Party. They’re tired of the denials. They’re tired of the hidden information. They want the Premier to admit—that’s all they want—that this was wrong, and to apologize. Will she do that, Speaker?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’ve been very clear that I regret that the decision wasn’t made earlier, but I think it underestimates the people of Ontario to suggest that somehow we can say to them, or the leader of the third party can say, “We would have cancelled the gas plant and it wouldn’t have cost a thing.” That is a fantasy, and it’s not fair to the people of Ontario to say that we can start an infrastructure project and we can cancel it and there will not be a cost associated with that.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Northumberland—Kawartha Lakes—come to order.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): And the member from Halton is inches away from something he doesn’t want to be.

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I’m the Premier who asked the Auditor General to look at the Oakville situation, Mr. Speaker. I said, “Let’s open up the mandate of the committees.” Let’s make sure that they can ask all the questions that need to be asked. Let’s make sure that all the information is available.

I regret that the decision wasn’t made earlier, but the reality is that we all agreed that that decision should be made. We made it, we implemented it, and there was a cost associated with it.

DRUG FORMULATION

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My next question is also for the Premier. People across the province were shocked by news that over 1,000 patients fighting cancer received diluted chemotherapy treatment over the last year, and they were shocked when they learned that the government hadn’t provided any oversight while they let hospitals outsource that service.

Can the Premier tell us how many other companies are currently doing this mixing of drugs work and what oversight they’re receiving right now?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I know the Minister of Health will speak to the specifics of this, but I just want to say that we have acted as quickly as possible to address this issue. It is absolutely unacceptable that it happened, and that’s why we’ve got an expert panel that is reviewing the situation. That’s why Dr. Jake Thiessen is in place to give us advice, to make sure that this never happens again.

It should not have happened. There needed to be more oversight. We need to determine where in the system, if there is a systemic issue, there needs to be a change, and that’s exactly what Dr. Thiessen will be talking to us about.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Well, yesterday in committee officials from this government admitted that they still can’t say how many companies are doing this kind of work and how many patients are potentially affected. People expect the health care system to provide them with reliable care when they need it. What does the Premier have to say to patients who want to know the drugs they are taking are safe and reliable?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: To the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care.

Hon. Deborah Matthews: As the member opposite knows, this is an issue we are taking very, very seriously. We have brought all the partners together, including Health Canada, to ensure that we can say with complete confidence that patients are getting the highest-quality drugs. The member also, I think, knows that Cancer Care Ontario went out to all of the hospitals, the 77 hospitals, in the province that deliver chemotherapy and made sure they did an audit of their drug supply to ensure that this was an issue that was not happening anywhere else, that this problem was confined to the four identified hospitals.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Final supplementary.

Ms. Andrea Horwath: Speaker, I was speaking not just specifically of chemotherapy, but drugs overall. I think the minister missed that point. In fact, her staff or the staff at the ministry could not answer that question in committee yesterday, and that’s why I’m putting it to the Premier today, and to the minister.

It’s a pretty basic issue. People facing some of the most frightening diseases that we can even imagine went to hospital for treatment. Hospitals assume that someone is providing oversight for the drugs that they’re providing to those patients, and yet the government not only was not providing the oversight but still, weeks later, can’t identify what they are supposed to be overseeing and whether there are other companies doing similar work in Ontario that they’re supposed to be overseeing today, weeks after this incident occurred.

When is the Premier going to be able to provide us and the people of this province with some basic answers?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: Speaker, the Premier has made the commitment that we will give the College of Pharmacists the tools it needs to ensure the safety of the supply. That work is well under way.

I think it’s important to acknowledge that this is not just an Ontario problem. In fact, we have a representative from New Brunswick sitting on our working group. I’m very pleased that the federal health minister yesterday did commit that, if the review determines that there is a federal role, she will seriously consider any changes that are recommended to prevent this from happening again.

All of our health care providers and professions are focused on ensuring that we understand what happened here and that we can ensure that it does not happen again.

POWER PLANTS

Mr. Peter Shurman: My question is to the Minister of Finance. On Monday, the Auditor General found that the cancellation of the Mississauga gas plant cost $275 million. Minister, that’s $85 million more than the government claimed for months. Yesterday, when speaking to the media after question period, you said that this amount was already accounted for in the upcoming budget. If the government actually believed their own words that the cost of this self-serving decision was only 190 million taxpayer dollars, then how did you as finance minister budget for $275 million in the upcoming budget?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Mr. Speaker, as the member opposite knows all too well, we accommodated $190 million in our reports last year. The amounts going forward will be accommodated through the ratepayers, and we recognize that. More importantly, we are going, over a 20-year period—we make certain that the deficit is reduced by 2017-18, and we’re on plan to do just that, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Shurman: The auditor has yet to release his report on the cancellation and relocation of the Oakville plant. Independent energy experts, including Bruce Sharp and Tom Adams, have testified that the costs associated with this politically motivated waste of taxpayer dollars could reach almost a billion dollars. Yesterday, outside this House, you told media that this sprawling mismanagement of funds was accounted for in your upcoming budget. This means that you know what cancelling the Oakville gas plant will cost and you need not wait for the Auditor General to uphold transparency in government.

Minister, will you be honest with the hard-working people of Ontario, restore some integrity to your Liberal government and release the true cost of saving Kevin Flynn’s seat?

Hon. Charles Sousa: Mr. Speaker, we’ll await the Auditor General’s report and we’ll determine exactly what’s there to be dealt with.

But this is what we are dealing with: We’re dealing with a budget that’s going to enable us to ensure that we grow our economy and balance our books. We have a plan to balance our books by 2017-18, and it’s working. We’ve exceeded our targets four years in a row. We’re three point some-odd billion dollars less than we anticipated.

More importantly, jobs are being created and Ontario’s fundamentals are strong. That’s why more people are investing in Ontario than ever before, and that’s why we’re poised to do so much better.

What we require is collaboration and co-operation. All Ontarians expect that to be so. I would hope that you’ll read the budget before you make your decision. Take a look at what we’re doing; take a look at our path to balance. It’s working, and you should be part of that as well.

POWER PLANTS

Mr. Peter Tabuns: To the Premier: Premier, over and over, your government has insisted that Ontarians were only going to spend $190 million to cancel the Mississauga plant. As we know, it’s $275 million.

Yesterday when I asked Shelly Jamieson, former secretary of cabinet, if the Ontario Power Authority would have kept ministers and the government informed of the costs and risks that they were encountering, she answered very simply: “Yes.”

Will the Premier admit that she and her ministers have known for a long time that the cost of the Mississauga cancellation was a lot more than 190 million bucks?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Government House leader.

Hon. John Milloy: We have a report from the Auditor General on Mississauga, and I understand the auditor in fact will be appearing in front of the committee today. The Premier has taken the step of asking the auditor to look into the Oakville situation and come forward with a costing there.

The interesting thing, though, is that both the Conservatives and the New Democrats promised to cancel both those plants, and we are very anxious to learn about their costing going into it. In fact, the Liberal members invited the NDP candidates to appear in front of the committee, as well as the Progressive Conservative candidates. Surprisingly, not a single one of them was available. So I hope that the honourable member will be encouraging his fellow NDP members who vehemently opposed both the Oakville and the Mississauga plants to come forward and talk about the type of costing that they undertook.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Peter Tabuns: I take that deflection as a yes.

It’s clear from testimony by senior civil servants and senior Ontario Power Authority staff that the ministry should know what it cost to cancel both Oakville and Mississauga.

In fact, Kristin Jenkins, a vice-president of the OPA, testified yesterday that there were ongoing communications between the OPA and the Ministry of Energy about the cost of cancellations.

This fall, a new Auditor General will give her or his assessment of the cost of the Oakville cancellation. How much does the Premier think it cost to cancel that Oakville plant?

Hon. John Milloy: Again, the honourable member wants to hold committee hearings during question period. That’s fine. But I think the honourable member is being a little bit mischievous in talking about these costs, that they are easily calculated.

He’s interested in quoting Kristin Jenkins. Let me quote Kristin Jenkins and what she had to say about costs: “There is savings associated with the location of these plants. I think it is important to take into account that there will be some savings that also need to be factored in when looking at the total cost.”

The fact of the matter is, this is a complex issue. We have asked the Auditor General to look into it.

But again, the honourable member has ignored my question. Where were the NDP candidates? What costing were they looking at? What costing was the central party looking at? Will he encourage his NDP colleagues to come before the committee?

POWER PLANTS

Mrs. Julia Munro: My question is for the Premier. On Monday, the Auditor General reported that although the OPA reimbursed Greenfield $4.2 million for the Mississauga plant site, it still allowed Greenfield to retain the title of the property.

I ask the Premier: If you purchased a new house, would you allow the previous owner to retain ownership of it?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: It is my understanding, and I believe it was also referred to in the Auditor General’s report, that the actual site probably had a liability attached to it, rather than being an asset, in the sense that there was a lot of infrastructure on that site that would be very, very expensive to remove and it probably would be more expensive to retain it. Therefore, we let them keep it.

But the important issue is that the Auditor General has done his report. We have accepted the results of the Auditor General. The people of Ontario want to see some unity of purpose on the part of the three parties to move forward and determine how we can better site these projects.

Mr. Speaker, I want to say that there’s always a smile from the member from Sarnia. He was smiling when it went to Sarnia–Lambton, and he was taking credit for moving that—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. I want to remind members that while I’m speaking they’re not supposed to be, and I also would like to remind members that the reason I ask you not to name persons’ individual names is because it’s a race to the bottom and not to the top. So let’s start using their ridings. And for those members who are not in their seats, they’re supposed to be really quiet.

Supplementary, please.

Mrs. Julia Munro: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Back to the Premier, and I would just now comment about the minister speaking—the “would” and “should.” It’s past that time. This is a report that we’re looking at, and it’s not supposed to be based on “woulds” and “shoulds.”

But I want to go back to the Premier in my supplementary. It was her government, not the OPA, who controlled this process and the negotiations with Greenfield.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister of the Environment.

Mrs. Julia Munro: Your government did not have to allow Greenfield to retain the title. You are accountable for this mess. You were in power overseeing the fiasco as it happened. Will you take responsibility for this fiasco, as well as eHealth and Ornge?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: As I was saying towards the end of my first response to the question, the member for Sarnia has been extremely pleased and has taken credit for the relocation to go into his community. He has accepted the credit for creating jobs in his community. The reality is—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock.

First, the member will withdraw. And if I hear that again from anybody, I’m going to throw you out.

Mr. Monte McNaughton: I will withdraw.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Minister.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: When the three parties made election promises to relocate the facilities—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): The member from Renfrew knows better. The member from Renfrew knows that those kinds of props are not appreciated by any of us, and if he does it again, I’ll throw him out. These kinds of challenges are definitely unfair to anybody.

Finish, please, Minister.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: Mr. Speaker, I think most people have forgotten the question by now, so I’ll just sit down.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): New question. The member from Nickel Belt.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): All right, you want to challenge me. The member from Huron–Bruce is warned.

CANCER TREATMENT

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est pour le ministre de la Santé et des Soins de longue durée. Yesterday, the committee looking at the diluted chemo drugs heard from their first witness. The deputy minister confirmed that the Ministry of Health doesn’t know how widespread the outsourcing of cancer drugs is. The Ministry of Health doesn’t know what companies are providing the drugs, and they can’t comment whether the grey area of oversight is common within our health care system. This is disturbing to me and to a lot of Ontarians. Is the minister ready to admit the extent to which things have gone wrong under her leadership?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I think everyone in this Legislature has the very same goal, and that goal is to get answers for patients, to understand what went wrong here, to make sure that this never happens again. That work is well under way.

I am very pleased that Health Canada has confirmed that it will exercise all of its existing legal authority to investigate Marchese Hospital Solutions, and I am hopeful that with Health Canada’s co-operation, the College of Pharmacists will be able to obtain more information to inform its own decision.

Speaker, we have a strong commitment to understand what happened here, to learn any lessons that are to be learned from this experience and to ensure that it does not happen again.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

M me France Gélinas: Well, to make matters even worse, it seems that it never occurred to the Ministry of Health—the body ultimately responsible for oversight of our health care system—that all of these unknowns could lead to problems. The minister likes to say that she doesn’t want to point fingers, but that’s exactly what she’s doing. Ontarians are sick and tired that health care keeps failing us and that the Ministry of Health keeps failing in its basic role of oversight—in its basic, primary responsibility of oversight.

Will the Minister of Health admit that she failed to do her job?

Hon. Deborah Matthews: I think it’s very important that we not politicize this issue, and I think it’s very important to acknowledge that we in Ontario have an excellent health care system. There is nowhere else in the world that has a stronger cancer care system. It is an excellent system; it is not a perfect system, but we strive to continually improve the care. When an issue comes before us, we move quickly. We are moving quickly on this issue. Many will argue that this is an issue that should be led by Health Canada.

What I am saying is, I have a responsibility to Ontario patients; it’s a responsibility I take very seriously. As Health Canada gets more engaged, I will be very pleased for—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Stop the clock. Be seated, please.

New question.

YOUTH EMPLOYMENT

Ms. Soo Wong: My question is for the minister of economic development and employment.

Youth employment has been consistently lower than the general population, and our government identified this as a priority in the recent throne speech. With summer just around the corner, we know young people will be searching for meaningful employment that will help them develop the skills they will need to succeed in the future. Many young people in my riding of Scarborough–Agincourt are looking for their first job to teach them new responsibilities, time management and workplace practices. It also helps them to learn what to expect when entering the workplace full-time.

With just a few weeks from the summer—returning back home from post-secondary studies for the summer—can the minister please outline some of the great things our government is doing to help young people find meaningful summer employment?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: I certainly appreciate the opportunity to address this important issue. Of course, we identified youth employment in our throne speech as a priority for this government, and I believe that this is an important issue that all parties agree with us needs to be addressed. Every year, approximately 100,000 students here in Ontario find meaningful employment during the summer through our summer job strategy.

In my Ministry of Economic Development, Trade and Employment, our flagship summer employment opportunity for young people is called Summer Company. Youth involved in this program have over the years launched a tremendous array of businesses, including web development, lifeguarding, product sales, home renovation and environmental services—

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Answer.

Hon. Eric Hoskins: —program is in its 13th year. Summer Company, last year alone, helped to launch 483 businesses with our young people.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Ms. Soo Wong: Thank you, Speaker, and thank you, Minister, for the update to the House on what the government is doing to create summer jobs for young people. The Summer Company program sounds like a great opportunity for young people to become young business entrepreneurs and business leaders.

At the recent hearings of the Standing Committee on Finance and Economic Affairs, I heard about the needs of young people in northern and rural Ontario. I believe the youth in rural and northern Ontario wish to work outside, whether it is in a park or doing conservation work, or to gain experience in wildlife habitat.

Speaker, through you to the minister, can he share with us examples of what employment opportunities this government has created for youth in northern and rural communities?

Hon. Eric Hoskins: To the Minister of Natural Resources.

Hon. David Orazietti: I want to thank the member from Scarborough–Agincourt for asking about this very important issue. The member will be pleased to hear that our government is continuing to provide great summer employment opportunities throughout the province, and that the ministry is the leading provider of youth employment in the Ontario public service, with over 1,900 summer jobs available. The positions range from field work, collecting data and wildlife rehabilitation to education initiatives or working in 100 provincial parks.

One of our most important programs is the Stewardship Youth Ranger Program, which provides 225 opportunities in 30 communities across Ontario. The rangers will be able to work in five-person teams in their local communities on a wide range of varying environmental initiatives. Recent changes have been made to expand the eight-week program to allow a broader range of Ontarians to participate, with locations ranging from Guelph and Peterborough to Dryden and Moosonee.

We’ve also worked with school boards to help ensure that the knowledge gained through this program will allow students to earn secondary school co-op credits.

POWER PLANTS

Mr. Todd Smith: My question this morning is for the Premier. Speaker, the Premier and the Minister of Energy have stood in this House and knowingly repeated erroneous figures in a campaign of confusion.

Yesterday, the Minister of Energy brought this government to a new low by having the gall to insist that Ontarians wait for—get this—yet another Auditor General’s report, this time on the cancelled power plant in Oakville. This morning, the finance minister did the same thing. But Speaker, witness after witness, including the former secretary of cabinet, have testified under oath that the Premier and her cabinet know the full cost of cancelling the power plant in Oakville.

Meet the current Premier: same as the old one; same selfish Liberal agenda; same Liberal yes-men in cabinet; same tired old Liberal excuses.

Premier, enough of this shell game. Would you for once stand up for the taxpayers of Ontario, come clean, show some character and tell us the real cost of Oakville?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: I just want to remind the member opposite that I am the Premier who asked the Auditor General to look at the Oakville situation. I am not going to pre-empt that process; I am going to wait for that process because we need that independent review of the situation.

Since we’re in this general area, I just want to make it clear to the members opposite, but I want to make it clear to the people sitting in the galleries, I want to make it clear to the people of Ontario that I take responsibility for getting the information out; I take responsibility for a transparent process; and I take responsibility for learning from this process and making sure that, going forward, we have a much better process in place so that this does not happen again.

I really need people to be clear that I am not trying to abdicate responsibility. In fact, I said from the beginning: I understand it’s our responsibility.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Supplementary?

Mr. Todd Smith: Mr. Speaker, if this is transparency, I have a very different—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated.

Carry on.

Mr. Todd Smith: Mr. Speaker, if this is transparency, I have a very different definition of what transparency is than this old Premier has.

Shelly Jamieson confirmed that cabinet was briefed on the “buckets of costs” related to cancelling both of these power plants.

If the Minister of Energy can’t tell us what Oakville costs, there are three possible explanations for that. He either missed the briefing or wasn’t paying attention; he told his staff not to brief him so he wouldn’t have to tell this House; or he knows and refuses to be accountable on the floor of this Legislature. That means the minister is either incompetent, negligent or untrustworthy.

My question to the Premier is this: Why are any of those qualities good qualities for members of your cabinet?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): Be seated, please.

Premier?

Hon. Kathleen O. Wynne: Minister of Energy.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: The Premier was right in asking the Auditor General to look into the Oakville relocation.

As I mentioned before, there is a memorandum of understanding on the website, but most importantly, there’s a 500-page contract dealing with very technical issues, and the public is entitled to have an independent—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Dave Levac): That’s about it.

Carry on.

Hon. Bob Chiarelli: The public is entitled to have an independent

interpretation of that 500-page technical document. It was the right thing for the Premier to ask for an independent opinion, and we will await it.

Mr. Speaker, are they suggesting that we pre-empt the Auditor General’s work by coming out with numbers now which they will then attack? To have a credible process in this Legislature, we need to wait for the Auditor General’s report.

DISASTER RELIEF

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is for the Premier. Last May, the people of Thunder Bay saw the worst of nature and the best of their neighbours when massive flooding tore through their community. When the waters finally receded, people were left with wrecked basements and ruined possessions.

I saw the devastation with my own eyes, and the Premier did too. She looked flood victims in the eye and promised them disaster relief assistance funding of up to $3.2 million for private losses, saying, “This is the number that we think was necessary, but it may very well be that it has to be adjusted.”

Yesterday, the people of Thunder Bay found out that they’re only going to be getting $300,000. Does the Premier thin