Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Members' Statements — 7 December 2005 (45th General Assembly, 2nd Session, Vol. XLV No. 43)
2005-12-07
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
December 7, 2005 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV
No. 43
The House met at 2:00 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!
Admit strangers.
MR. E. BYRNE: On a point or order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair recognizes the hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, as you know, I visited your office this morning to lodge a
complaint and to inform you that I would be standing on a point of order today.
Yesterday after Question Period, some members of the caucus came to me
alleging comments that were made directly after Question Period in response to
questions by the Minister of Education made by the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans,
and I will get to that in a moment. But I do want to say up-front, Mr. Speaker,
that unparliamentary language, personal attacks on members are unwarranted,
unjustified and, frankly, not allowed.
I want to reference for you page 522, Marleau and Montpetit, where it says,
"Remarks directed specifically at another Member which question that Member's
integrity, honesty or character are not in order. A Member will be requested to
withdraw offensive remarks, allegations, or accusations of impropriety directed
towards another Member."
On page 525 of Marleau and Montpetit, Mr. Speaker, it says under heading of
Unparliamentary Language: Thus, the use of offensive, provocative or threatening
language or words are not in order, a direct charge or accusation against a
Member is not in order.
Mr. Speaker, in the last three years - I will even go back, ever since the
current Premier became Leader of the Party, Leader of the Opposition, members
opposite have consistently and continuously directed personal assaults at the
member. For example, I recall during one debate where members of the then
government, now members of the Opposition, were made to stand and apologize for
calling the Premier a racist.
Last week, the Member for Torngat Mountains stood and basically said that the
Premier discriminates against children in Labrador as opposed to people or
children on the Island portion of our Province. Another direct allegation. It
has been said of him and direct charges in the House, for example, that he does
not care about children, that he has no use for seniors.
Now, yesterday, Mr. Speaker, the Minister Responsible for the Status of Women
and the member who is the critic opposite, all members stood in this House, took
a moment of silence to recognize what has commonly been referred to as the
Montreal massacre. Yesterday, in this House, on that very day - and I gave you a
tape this morning, Mr. Speaker, which clearly indicates and shows for all
members to hear, that when the Minister of Education sat down, when she
referenced in answers to questions to the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans where
she talked about more gender equity on the Board of the College of the North
Atlantic, the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans sits in her chair, shouts out
across the House, the Premier hates women. If you look at the -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, if you look at the tape, which I believe you
have, as I have, it is clear and unequivocal that the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans,
in the tradition of that party and that caucus of making these types of
accusations against the Premier, once again made that accusation.
Mr. Speaker, I can speak for this caucus today on this issue, that all of us
took personal offence to that when we saw that. Members, men and women in this
House, on this side, took offence and I would say to members opposite, that they
should take offence, too. I am sure, although I have not spoken to the Premier's
family, I am sure that his wife, his daughters, his son and his entire family
take offence to it, Mr. Speaker, and the member should be stood and asked to
withdraw and apologize unequivocally to the Premier of the Province for such an
inflammatory accusation that has no basis in merit whatsoever.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair acknowledges that the Government House Leader
visited my office earlier today. The Chair also acknowledges that yesterday,
while I was speaking to the House in the routine business, the Chair heard part
of a comment and was not quite sure of what was said. However, a few moments
ago, about half an hour ago, I did visit the broadcast centre and it is quite
clear that the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans can be seen on the video and heard
on the tape to say the words that the Government House Leader has mentioned.
We know that in all parliamentary institutions there is a code that we try to
live by, and that is that we try to avoid offensive, provocative and threatening
language; a language which takes away the integrity of any honourable member.
On that basis, I ask the hon. Member for Grand Falls-Buchans to stand and to
unequivocally withdraw her comment.
MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, thank you for this moment.
I know there are many reasons I could give, but -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member had an opportunity, right after the point of order was raised, to
comment on the point of order. She waived that right; so, at this moment, the
Chair is asking her to unequivocally apologize without any explanation or
commentary thereto.
MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I unequivocally apologize for the comments I
made yesterday.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
This afternoon I am pleased to welcome to the public galleries, Mr. Waylon
Williams, the Executive Director of the Combined Councils of Labrador. I do
understand that Mr. Williams is visiting the Legislature and the offices here on
other business.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: We have members' statements as follows: the hon. the
Member for the District of Grand Bank; the hon. the Member for the District of
Burin-Placentia West; the hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave; the
hon. the Member for the District of Lake Melville; and, the hon. the Member for
the District of Humber Valley.
The Chair recognizes the Member for Grand Bank District.
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to extend sincere congratulations to
Bruce Buffett, a member of the Grand Bank Lions Club, who received the Melvin
Jones Fellowship Award at the club's fifty-fourth Annual Charter Night on
November 25.
Lions International recognizes outstanding individuals like Lion Buffett by
bestowing on them the Melvin Jones Fellowship Award. This award is the highest
form of recognition and embodies humanitarian ideas consistent with the nature
and purpose of Lionism.
Lion Bruce was honored for his commitment to Lionism. He has been a Lion for
the past forty-six years, the longest serving member of the Grand Bank Club. He
has held most of the offices from the president down and has been a very active
member during his forty-six years with the organization.
Among Lion Buffett's accomplishments are: chairperson of the building
committee when the Lions Den was built; one of the movers and shakers in raising
$20,000 to kick-start the Grand Bank swimming pool; and, he was involved in
raising $10,000 to buy the land on which the Blue Crest Seniors Home in Grand
Bank is built.
The Grand Bank Lions Club was the first to organize on the Burin Peninsula.
This year alone the club, with just twenty-five members, has contributed more
than $40,000 at the local, national and international levels.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all Members of the House of Assembly to join me in
congratulating Lion Bruce on winning the award and thanking him for his
continuing commitment to his community, his district, and Lions International.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JACKMAN: Mr. Speaker, it is with great admiration that I rise today
to congratulate a young woman from my district. Ms Karen Paddle of Red Harbour
has been awarded a Canadian Millennium Scholarship in the amount of $10,000.
This scholarship was awarded to only two individuals from the Province this
year, and Ms Paddle's academic achievements and community service won her that
honour.
Indeed, Mr. Speaker, it is my honour to know Karen and her parents, Kevin and
Gladys. This is a family that has stayed and made a life in rural Newfoundland
and Labrador. Karen's success proves that it is possible to be raised in a
small rural community and get a top education that will see her achieve whatever
she may want in life.
Right now, Ms Paddle is participating in the Canada World Youth Volunteer
Program within the country, Russia and Thailand, and will be continuing her
studies at Memorial University next September. In fact, Mr. Speaker, I spoke
with her father on Monday who told me that Karen had just left for Thailand.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all hon. Members of this House of Assembly to join me in
wishing Karen Paddle our sincerest congratulations and best wishes in her future
studies.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am pleased to rise today to congratulate Kelsey Morrissey, a
thirteen-year-old Shearstown resident, who won the Newfoundland Equestrian
Association's Horsemanship Award.
The NEA competition is the biggest in the Province and spans through the
summer months. The Horsemanship Award is not won by collecting points. It is an
overall view of the rider and horse to see how well they both communicate with
each other, and how much control the rider has over the horse. This award is
prestigious because it is the only award of its kind available in its division.
Mr. Speaker, Kelsey has been riding horses for nine years, and in this
competition she rode her own horse by the name Dawn. Dawn is a Western Canadian
quarter horse, born in Saskatchewan. She was purchased in the Maritimes, and has
been cared for by Kelsey for the previous four years.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in
congratulating Ms Kelsey Morrissey on winning the Newfoundland Equestrian
Association's Horsemanship Award.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Lake Melville.
MR. HICKEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I rise in this House today to lend my support to those in
Labrador who are beginning a lobby to name the recently announced new Canadian
Coast Guard Vessel after the late Lawrence O'Brien.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, Lawrence O'Brien was not only a great Member
of Parliament for Labrador; he was also a personal friend of mine. Lawrence was
a champion for the people of Labrador and their causes, and worked tirelessly on
their behalf right up to his death on December 16 of last year.
He was a champion for inclusion of the Trans-Labrador Highway into the
National Highway System, which saw a positive outcome this year, Mr. Speaker.
Lawrence was well respected in both his political life and private life, making
valuable contributions to his beloved Labrador and its residents.
Mr. Speaker, I believe it would be more than fitting to name the new Coast
Guard Vessel after Lawrence, a fitting way to keep his memory alive for years to
come.
I call upon all Labradorians to support this fine initiative.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS GOUDIE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to recognize Ms Susan Francis, a resident of Deer Lake, who
recently won a national award for the highest score out of approximately 200
individuals in the Province on the Tests of General Education Development, GED,
for 2004.
GED testing allows individuals who did not complete high school to earn a
high school equivalency certificate, which opens the door to a world of
opportunities. This is the nineteenth year that the Department of Education has
taken
part in the National Awards for Outstanding Achievement Program. Over the
past thirty years, in excess of 16,000 Newfoundlanders and Labradorians have
successfully completed the GED program.
Ms Francis has proven that determination and hard work pay off. She is a
wonderful role model for those who may be just beginning the program or who may
be contemplating going back to school to obtain their high school equivalency.
Mr. Speaker, learning is a lifelong journey, and the GED program has provided
Ms Francis, along with all the other graduates, with a solid foundation on which
to build.
It requires tremendous courage to return to school after a period of absence
from the academic world, which makes her academic success an even greater
achievement.
I ask all members to join me in congratulating Ms Francis on having received
this award. Her determination and hard work are admirable.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: This afternoon we are very pleased to welcome to the Speaker's
gallery, Mr. Bill Hogan, a former Member for the District of Placentia. Welcome.
I tell all members who have sat in this House before, they are always welcome
in the Speaker's gallery.
It is good to see you visiting us today, Mr. Hogan.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to update my colleagues on our progress in developing a
provincial branding strategy to improve government's image and how the
Province is projected to the outside world.
This initiative will result in a more streamlined and effective branding of
the Province, as we look to promote Newfoundland and Labrador as a preferred
place to live and visit, and a productive place to do business.
We are dealing, as you know, with a very competitive global marketplace, and
if we are to successful attract new business and investment we must create an
identity that sets us apart. This is critical if we are to remain competitive
and encourage economic growth.
Mr. Speaker, everyone who lives here or has visited Newfoundland and Labrador
knows that we are the best kept secret in the world. We are a vibrant Province
filled with an entrepreneurial spirit; rich with natural and human resources;
and blessed with a rich and diverse cultural heritage.
Over the past decade or so, the Department of Tourism, Culture and Recreation
have succeeded in marketing the Province as a unique and attractive tourism
destination. However, the tourism brand was just one of many, many brands
throughout government. After completing an audit of all the brands
government-wide, we quickly recognized that we as a government needed to
re-brand ourselves in order to effectively promote our Province throughout the
entire world.
Earlier this year, we commenced a competitive proposal process and I am
pleased to announce that Target Marketing and Communications was awarded the
contract to shape our vision for a strong and a successful brand. Target
Marketing is a local firm with considerable experience and a proven track record
in brand development and executing marketing strategies.
Successful branding takes time and specialized skills, and I am pleased to
report that work is already progressing on research and analysis of competitors
and global positioning, as well as the design and concepts for a brand new
signature logo. The goal is to create a brand that will be attractive not only
to those from outside the Province, but also one that we identify with as
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.
Mr. Speaker, in order to reach our true potential we must continue to market
our Province not only as a great place to visit, but as the best destination to
live, and to work and do business.
Identifying opportunities and working to realize those opportunities creates
jobs and builds stronger regions and communities. This is a priority for our
government and we look forward to unveiling a new visual identity which will
guide us as we proceed together along the path to prosperity and a brighter
future.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Mr Speaker, all I can say about this statement is that it
reminds me of a statement that was made about Nero during the great fire of
Rome: how Nero fiddled while Rome burned.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS FOOTE: Here we are, Mr. Speaker, with a Province in crisis,
particularly rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Things are fine on the Avalon, but
what does the Premier put out here as a priority? The priority is to improve the
government's image. Now give me some leeway here, Premier. I cannot believe
that is the priority for your government here, when we have communities like
Englee, New Ferolle, Harbour Breton, Fortune, Hawkes Bay all in a crisis out
there. We do not know what is going to happen to the Burin Peninsula. We know
that FPI is out there now being rumoured to get rid of anything they have on the
Burin Peninsula, and this Premier stands up and talks about branding image as a
priority for this government. Make no wonder this Province is in a crisis
situation under the leadership of this Premier.
Premier, I cannot believe for a minute that you really believe that this is a
priority. That you look forward to unveiling a new visual identity which will
guide us as we proceed together along the path to prosperity and a brighter
future. Tell that to people in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Tell them about
the strategy that you have yet to unveil that you had during the election; how
you were going to revitalize rural Newfoundland and Labrador. Your own
projections, you have 20,000 more people leaving this Province within the next
ten years and you are talking about one of the priorities of government is a new
image for the government and branding this Province. Do something for rural
Newfoundland and Labrador. Make a difference!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I do not have a problem with the government undertaking a review
of our strategy in promoting the Province in a tourism way. Obviously, that has
to be done from time to time. I am no marketing guru and neither is the Premier,
so it is useful to have people advise the government on that. But, I have a
little bit of a problem with the first paragraph, which says that part of the
strategy is to improve government's image and with the notion of branding
itself. I mean, brand - are we looking at a corporate logo here?
When I look at some of the annual reports that we have, like the one we were
given a couple of days ago - the Department of Transportation and Works. When
they talk about their vision, they talk about lines of business and every
government department, whether it be the Department of Health and Community
Services -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's time has expired.
MR. HARRIS: By leave, Mr. Speaker?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: Leave has been granted.
MR. HARRIS: When they talk about the work that they are doing, they talk
about lines of business. What are we running here, Mr. Speaker, a corporation
with a logo and a brand? What I want to say is that the business of government
is government. While we may have to have a good image for tourism purposes and
review it from time to time, but the notion of a brand and a new logo, that
somehow or other that is going to make a difference and turn us from a
government into a corporation, is a bad thing. We have to look at the
obligations that we have to the citizens of Newfoundland and Labrador and make
sure that theirs are being undertaken properly. Yes, let's have a new tourism
strategy, let's have a new image, but the whole notion of branding, Mr.
Speaker, I think is the wrong direction.
MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?
Oral Questions.
The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General, standing on a point of
order.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Is the Minister of Justice and Attorney General standing on a point of order?
MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, I am standing on a ministerial statement.
MR. SPEAKER: Oh, I am sorry, I had moved to Oral Questions.
Is it agreed we will go back to the ministerial statements?
Statements by ministers.
The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.
MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to honour our veterans for one last time while the House of
Assembly is in session during this commemorative Year of the Veteran and the
sixtieth anniversary of the end of the Second World War. This year has provided
a wonderful opportunity for all Canadians to remember the tremendous
contributions of our veterans' achievements and their sacrifices.
Newfoundland and Labrador, in particular, has a proud history of honouring
our veterans and this year we upheld that tradition. On May 5, we marked the
sixtieth anniversary of Victory in Europe Day with a tree-planting ceremony here
on the grounds of the Confederation Building. A handsome red maple now stands as
a reminder to all who walk the grounds of the Confederation complex of the women
and the men who sacrificed so much to protect our democratic rights.
Year of the Veteran banners have been displayed here in the foyer of the
Confederation Building East Block all year. Commemorative portraits of veterans
have also been on display, and we have taken
part in the annual Fly the Flag of
Remembrance ceremony here at the Confederation Building.
Mr. Speaker, in July of this year, I accompanied a group of students and
veterans from Newfoundland and Labrador to Beaumont Hamel to commemorate the
eighty-ninth anniversary of the Battle of the Somme and to follow the journey of
the caribou in France and Belgium and places where the Royal Newfoundland
Regiment fought. It was, indeed, an absolute honour and a privilege for me to be
able to bring greetings on behalf of the Province and to commemorate the
contributions of our veterans, especially the members of the Royal Newfoundland
Regiment who fought and died at Beaumont Hamel during the opening day of the
Battle of the Somme on July 1, 1916.
Mr. Speaker, to actually be there as a Newfoundlander and Labradorian, to see
the trenches, to walk from St. John's trench where they walked down to the
danger tree, to read the inscriptions on the memorials, to actually touch the
famous danger tree, and to feel that sacred soil beneath one's feet was
remarkably overwhelming. It is something I truly hope that every Newfoundland
and Labradorian has the opportunity to experience at some point during their
lifetime.
Mr. Speaker, I said here before, and as many of you know, that my father,
Jack Marshall, was a Veteran of the Second World War. As a young Officer Cadet,
he stormed the beaches of Normandy on D-Day and later in his life, as a
Commanding Officer of the Royal Newfoundland Regiment, as a Member of the
Canadian Parliament and later as a Senator, and later again, as Grand Patron of
the Royal Canadian Legion in Ottawa. He was an outspoken advocate for the rights
of all veterans.
So, veterans' affairs has always had a special place in my life, and I know
that they also have a special place in the hearts and minds of every member in
this House of Assembly, and I am pleased we have taken many opportunities to
remember and honour our veterans during this commemorative year.
Mr. Speaker, the Year of the Veteran may be coming to a close, but I want to
encourage all members of this House and, indeed, all Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians to take every opportunity to continue to pay tribute to the men and
women who fought to preserve democracy and restore the cause of peace throughout
the world. Honour them and cherish them; they are so important to us all.
As the plaque beneath the maple tree on the grounds of the Confederation
Building says: May their sacrifices ever be remembered.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
MR. SWEENEY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for an advanced copy of his statement. We, on this side
of the House, join with the minister in his words today of commemorating the
veteran and the sixtieth anniversary of the end of the Second World War.
Newfoundland and Labrador does indeed have a proud history in our involvement in
overseas in Europe and elsewhere in this world but, you know, a lot of people
seem to keep the veteran and the celebration of what the veteran does for one or
two particular days of the year.
I had the fortune of growing up admiring a man who served in the First World
War. He was a Member of the Royal Newfoundland Regiment, and he fought overseas.
He was my grandfather, George Thorne. His presence with me - for the short time
that it was - as a young boy, left me with a great appreciation of what those
people went through. Also, to this very day, that same appreciation is brought
forward when I hear of other people who are fighting overseas and participating
in peacekeeping duties in other parts of the world, and the stress and strain
that their families are experiencing.
I think it is very, very important, Minister, that we all take the time and,
when we see a veteran, we pay special attention, because the number of veterans
from the Second World War and the Korean War are diminishing. It think it is
very fitting that all of us, whether we are Members of the House of Assembly or
we are private citizens, that we take that time and honour them.
I had the opportunity of going to Beaumont Hamel myself. As you said, walking
those trenches, feeling the earth under your feet - in the case when I was there
it was mud, because it was pouring rain. Nevertheless, that even brought it more
so what those brave men endured that particular day, so much so that upon my
return, as minister, I immediately had the pleasure of implementing a veteran's
licence plate so that the veterans of this Province now have their own distinct
marking for their own personal vehicles.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Just this Sunday past, I attended the funeral of a very dear
friend of mine, Mr. Willert Pynn, who spent six years in the navy in the Second
World War. I visited Mr. Pynn on a number of occasions, and next November 11
will be a different experience for me because Willard's birthday was also
November 11. When we would leave the Legion in Harbour Grace, after the wreath
laying ceremony, we would attend Willard's birthday at his house.
It is a special occasion. I thank the minister for taking this opportunity
once again and having that tree planted outside, because there is another
planted in Carbonear that was done by five colleagues, five Members of this
House of Assembly. The Members for Bellevue, Port de Grave, myself, Trinity-Bay
de Verde and Harbour Main-Whitbourne participated in a very lovely ceremony
about a month-and-a-half ago.
I encourage all residents and citizens of this Province to continue to keep
the tradition of honouring the veteran alive in this Province.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Given the nature of the Ministerial Statement response, the
Chair permitted the comments to go on beyond the normal allocation.
We do know that under Standing Order 63.(6), I think it is, we must begin
Question Period at 2:30 p.m; however, I ask members if we could permit the
Member for Labrador West to respond to the statement that has just been made.
The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
We will not invoke the normal time limits, but I ask you to be mindful of the
time we have allocated.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for a copy of his statement as well. We join with the
minister and others, Mr. Speaker, in honouring the veterans during this
designated Year of the Veteran.
We are glad to hear that the minister went to Beaumont Hamel. I think it is
very important for our government, in particular, to take
part in the ceremonies
in places where many of our residents and ancestors have given the ultimate
sacrifice on behalf of all of us. I think, from people I have spoken with, who
have been there before - I haven't had the honour or privilege of being there
- I understand it to be a very emotional experience as well.
Mr. Speaker, I think it is also time that we, at this time, acknowledge the
tremendous efforts of the people in our Forestry Units and the Merchant Marines
who had long struggles to get the benefits that they deserve and to get their
efforts recognized.
I think it is also important that all of us recognize the efforts that were
made by our veterans, because we owe everything that we are to them: the right
to sit here in an assembly such as this, the right to practice religion, the
right to align ourselves in the form of trade unions. Everything that we
appreciate in our society, we owe to our veterans.
I think it was Winston Churchill - and I will conclude with this - who, at
one time, said: Never in the history of the world have so many owed so much to
so few.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Oral Questions.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions are for the Premier.
Mr. Speaker, during the election campaign, the Premier stated that he had the
answers to the problems facing the Stephenville mill, and that the mill would
not close under his watch. With just two days left to find a solution, no
meetings are scheduled. We have asked government to get involved with a mediator
for weeks, but the government has refused. Today, the Stephenville Chamber of
Commerce have sent a letter to the Premier asking that his government get
involved.
I ask the Premier: Are you willing to get personally involved to find a
solution to this most serious issue?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the commitment was made during the provincial election, and the
commitment was lived up to. The commitment of the government, in terms of the
arrangement put forward, met the objectives of what the company was looking for
with respect to the challenges they had securing a reasonable power rate. We did
that. It was accepted by the company. They then turned their attention to
negotiations with the union.
The Leader of the Opposition said that for weeks you have been asking for a
mediator and we haven't gotten involved. Absolutely false, Mr. Speaker. For
weeks we have been engaged with the parties, advising them that a mediator will
be provided.
We cannot force a mediator upon two parties. The local members, the Minister
of Education and the Member for Port au Port West have both been engaged. Those
services have been offered. They continue to be offered.
Not only that; let me go a step further. If they cannot find one themselves
and they wish us to appoint one, we will. Whether that comes from inside the
government or outside, we will pick up the cost of it.
The question by the Leader of the Opposition, and the allegations, are false,
Mr. Speaker. We have done what we have had to do.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The minister said the Premier has lived up to his commitments, and I
certainly hope that he lives up to the commitment that the mill will not close
under his watch.
Mr. Speaker, the Premier made many commitments during the election of 2003,
in an attempt to get votes from the people of the Province. One of these
promises was to remove political patronage from government.
After being elected, the Premier stated in a province-wide address January 6,
2004, and I quote, "We believe that a strengthened public service will
ensure that individuals are being hired on their merits as opposed to who they
know in government."
Since that time, we have witnessed political patronage at all levels in this
government.
I ask the Premier: Why did you make this commitment if you were not willing
to uphold it?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, we find ourselves in the difficult
position, and positive position, that 78 per cent of the people in this Province
support us. Therefore, I would guess that anybody who supports us, who may get
any kind of an appointment or be involved in any activities with this
government, by virtue of what the Opposition would like, that all those people
would not be qualified to work for government or be involved with the government
or to accept any position whatsoever.
We cannot select people from the 22 per cent that are left, that just happen
to be Opposition supporters, because that is basically what the polls are
saying, that the people of the Province support us. So, we find ourselves in a
difficult position.
Having said that, what we do is, we hire people who are eminently qualified
to do the job. Whether those people happen to be people who are supporters of
the Liberal Party - and there are some of them -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: - or they are supporters of the Conservative Party, or
they are supporters of the New Democratic Party, we will hire them if they are
qualified for the positions, and that is exactly what we have done in every
single instance.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, Joan Cleary, a defeated Tory candidate in the last election, has
been hand-picked by the Premier for several positions. She has been appointed by
the Premier to look after injured workers' issues and, most recently, been
given the president's position at the Bull Arm Corporation site. Ms Cleary has
no experience in the international marketing effort required for this position,
a position that was usually held by senior civil servants in this government.
The position pays approximately $100,000 a year. By her own admission, Ms Cleary
has stated that she is gearing up to run for the PC Party in the next general
election.
I ask the Premier: What selection process was used to fill this position and
was the selection made in an effort to raise Ms Cleary's profile for the next
general election?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the qualification of Ms Cleary that the members on this side
appreciate the most is that she is an eminently qualified, passionate, dedicated
Newfoundlander and Labrador woman. I have had a chance to observe her, the
Leader of the Opposition has, and the Member for Bellevue has had an opportunity
to observe her. She is a very, very competent woman. She actually worked at the
Bull Arm site.
Now, the Leader of the Opposition saw fit, when she first was announced, to
criticize her because she was a nurse.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: I think it is inappropriate to criticize someone
because of their profession, especially if she is a nurse. We have very
competent people in our own caucus who happen to be nurses. There were very
competent people in your own previous government, the previous Minister of
Finance, who was a nurse. So to attempt to disparage her because she was a nurse
is completely wrong.
Having said that, she has experience on the Bull Arm site for three years,
she has experience as the mayor of her community who basically tore up the
mortgage because she negotiated good deals with two senior corporations.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Equally important, and finally important, Mr. Speaker,
is that she has a good relationship with the workers on that site and she will
make sure that she brings deals to that particular project.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I say to the Premier, I have never met Ms Cleary,
and the question I asked is: What selection process was used? Obviously there
was none, except for you appointing her.
Mr. Speaker, Mr. Len Simms, a former Leader of the PC Party and close advisor
to several Cabinet Ministers, was given the Chief Executive Officer position at
Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation without any selection process. Mr.
Simms receives a healthy provincial pension and is now receiving a healthy
salary from the Housing Corporation.
I ask the Premier: What qualifications, other than being a friend of the PC
Party, does Mr. Simms have to represent the interests of individuals who are
receiving low income housing from this corporation?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, I don't have to stand in this House and
defend the record of Mr. Len Simms to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, I
can tell you right now. The former leader of this party was also a very
competent minister who happens to know the workings of government very
thoroughly.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: He has a considerable amount of private sector
experience and knows exactly what he is dealing with.
I want to point out something for the hon. member opposite, just some of the
people who are notable Liberals, who are qualified people, who we have kept in
office. For example, the person who is now chairing the federal campaign, Mr.
Norm Whalen, he continues to be - and was appointed by a previous government -
Chair of Newfoundland and Labrador Film Corporation.
Mr. Roger Jamieson asked me if he could continue on in his appointment at
Marble Mountain because he had unfinished business and he was doing a good job.
I said: There is no need to ask that, Mr. Jamieson. You are doing a good job.
You will stay there in that position.
The current candidate in St. John's for the federal party, Siobhan Coady, a
very competent and capable businesswoman remains as Chair of the EDGE
Corporation. That is the kind of thing we are doing in our government!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, clearly, political patronage and, again, no
selection process followed.
Mr. Speaker, Glen Tobin, former PC Cabinet Minister, friend of the Premier,
was appointed as the Chair of the Newfoundland and Labrador Liquor Corporation.
The Premier consistently and constantly criticized the former chair as being a
political appointee.
I ask the Premier: Why did you make this political appointment when you
previously stated that the position should be advertised and filled by the most
qualified individual?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the President of the Liquor Corporation, that particular
position was advertised and that person happens to be Mr. Steve Winter who is
doing an extremely capable job.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: As well, as far as Mr. Glen Tobin goes, Mr. Tobin is
also a very capable chairperson. And I go back, they neglect to acknowledge some
of the other appointments that we have made: Mr. Bill Rowe, for example, in
Ottawa as a parliamentary representative -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: - a former leader of the Liberal Party.
Let's go to the Hydro Corporation, Mr. Bill Kelly from Labrador, who both
these members would know, an admirable, admirable gentleman who stood up on the
Lower Churchill deal and said no to your government. He remains on that board to
this day.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. REID: Three positions filled, no selection process, I say to the
Premier.
Mr. Speaker, LeeAnn Montgomery was recently appointed as Commissioner of
Lobbyists. The position was supposed to be independent and nonpartisan. Only one
problem, Mr. Speaker, Ms Montgomery is a neighbour of the Premier and a friend
of the Premier and a close advisor to the Premier's Deputy Minister, Mr. Ross
Reid. Ms Montgomery also served as Ross Reid's official agent when he was
involved in federal politics for the PC Party.
I ask the Premier: Why did you appoint a neighbour and a close friend to the
position, an individual who has such close ties to the PC Party?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: I guess that eliminates Hubert Hutton and Jeff Carnell.
They are neighbours of mine. I guess they are never going to get an appointment
with this government. Your neighbour was Roger Grimes, I believe, wasn't it? I
do not think he is going to be along either when it comes down to it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, LeeAnm Montgomery happens to be an
extremely confident female lawyer; a very capable lawyer who has done tremendous
work in her profession. She worked at the Workers' Compensation Board from
what I can remember. Is she eliminated just because she happens to know a Tory?
Do we eliminate these types of people? What about someone down at the film
corporation, like Leo Fury? He is a brother of George Fury and Chuck Fury. Do we
just go in and fire him? No, we certainly did not. He remains in his position.
So, you cannot just random hit on people who have been appointed and ignore
strong supporters of the Liberal Party that we have kept in place. Now, I
understand - the Leader of the Opposition is in a bad mood today because the
Member for Port de Grave -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the ministers in reply to keep your comments to sixty seconds, and I
recognize the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. REID: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Four positions filled by friends, no selection process followed.
Mr. Speaker, Mr. Steve Marshall, the Premier's business partner and
lifelong friend, was appointed to the St. John's Port Authority.
I ask the Premier: Besides sailing yachts, what experience does Mr. Marshall
have regarding the Port of St. John's?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: There are many people, Mr. Speaker, that over the
course of the years have had experience at the Royal Newfoundland Yacht Club and
have been commodores of the Royal Newfoundland Yacht Club. Mr. Steve Marshall
has been honoured and distinguished to be a commodore of the Royal Newfoundland
and Labrador Yacht Club - I think it is actually the Royal Newfoundland. I do
not even know if it is called the Royal Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr. Clyde
Wells was also a former commodore of the Royal Newfoundland Yacht Club.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
AN HON. MEMBER: And he is not political.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: He is not political, no. So, Mr. Marshall has a
tremendous amount of marine experience. He was very qualified for this
particular position. He is a friend of mine. He is a very good friend of mine.
He is a tremendous individual. He does a lot of charitable work for a lot of
people. He does a lot of ex gratia work for a lot of people. I know the
Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi knows him very well; he can attest to his
credentials.
I stand by my friendship to Steve Marshall. He has not done wrong to anybody,
that I could ever see in my life, I can tell you right now.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MR. REID: Mr. Speaker, I find it a bit strange. The Premier fired the
Chief Justice yesterday, Mr. Clyde Wells, from the Selection Committee for the
Order of Newfoundland and Labrador, and now he has the gall to mention him in
talking about Steve Marshall.
Mr. Speaker, five positions filled, no selection process. I can go on for the
rest of Question Period, but I will ask one final question. Mr. Robert Lundrigan,
the former President of the PC Party, was recently appointed the Chairperson of
the Workplace Health and Safety Compensation Commission. I ask the Premier: What
experience does Mr. Lundrigan bring to this position that will improve the
plight of injured workers in the Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Lundrigan is not Chair of that board, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I guess we will find out what position he holds, though, very soon.
Mr. Speaker, Pamela Walsh was the President of the College of the North
Atlantic, distinguished and well-respected in the field of post-secondary
education. She proved her ability through the introduction of new programs and
courses in our college system to prepare our young people for the oil and gas
and the mining industry. She also negotiated an international contract in excess
of $500 million with the Qatari government on the delivery of education. Yet,
her contract was not renewed.
I ask the Premier why her contract was not renewed, and how much it cost the
taxpayers of the Province to show Ms Walsh the door.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, we have a White Paper completed on post-secondary
education, and it is a time of renewal for our college system and our
post-secondary system.
Mr. Speaker, we are at a point time in this whole renewal process where the
contract of the president of the college - the contract had expired, and it was
the decision of this government that the contract would not be renewed.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair recognizes the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: It is the silliest song and dance I ever heard, Mr. Speaker, I
will tell you now, no answer to the question whatsoever.
Mr. Speaker, Debbie Fry, once the Clerk of the Executive Council, the highest
position to be held in the public service, under the Williams' government she
was demoted to Deputy Minister of Health. She received national awards for her
work in the public service, she was named to the Canadian Council on Health, and
well respected in her profession. Yet, she too was dismissed.
I ask the Premier: Why was she dismissed, and how much did it cost to show Ms
Fry the door?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, the one thing I am not going to do is
stand here today and disparage the reputation of Ms Fry. I have no intention
whatsoever of indicating any of the reasons why she was dismissed.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: I can assure the hon. member, though, that she was paid
the normal severance and the normal entitlements that she would be entitled to
as any other person in government.
If you need to get the answer to that amount, you might want to ask the
Minister of Finance the exact amount.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, Florence Delaney is a woman who gave tirelessly of
herself as a public servant -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MS FOOTE: It is not funny. If you think Florence Delaney should be
laughed at -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS FOOTE: She was a woman who got fired!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair recognizes the Member for Grand Bank, who was putting a question.
MS FOOTE: Florence Delaney is a woman who gave tirelessly of herself as a
public servant. She held numerous positions throughout government, working with
governments of all political stripes. I had the pleasure of working with her
when she was a deputy minister in the Department of Education. Mr. Speaker,
there isn't a political bone in Ms Delaney's body.
Why then, I ask the Premier, did you demote her and, by doing so, force her
this Province? How much did it cost the taxpayers for you to show Ms Delaney the
door?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, there was no demotion involved with Ms Delaney. There was a very
attractive deputy minister's position offered to her, which was a lateral
transfer.
With respect to how much did it take to offer Ms Delaney, or what her
severance package was, I can only reiterate what the Premier said. Whatever the
normal entitlements would have been when she chose not to accept another
position would have been provided to her.
I would like to remind the hon. member that she was part of a government, in
their first week-and-a-half of becoming a government, in advising a Premier who
fired in excess of five deputy ministers in the first week. She understands as
anyone else would do, Mr. Speaker. She was the Director of Communications for a
former Liberal Premier who said: There is the door.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, as anybody -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. E. BYRNE: All members understand, Mr. Speaker, -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The question has been asked and the hon. the Government House Leader is
giving the answer. I ask him to conclude his comments briefly.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the fact of the matter is, the allegation put
forward by the member is false and incorrect. Ms Delaney was offered another
position, she chose not to accept it, and that kicked in severance options.
With respect to the allegations put forward, the member knows that ministers
and deputy ministers and senior executives serve at the prerogative of the
Premier, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Bank.
MS FOOTE: This is the government that said it would do things
differently, Mr. Speaker. We now know how differently they are performing. Yet
another competent woman -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS FOOTE: Yet another competent woman who held a senior position has
been dismissed, this time by the Premier's long time business partner and
friend, Dean MacDonald, who the Premier appointed as Chair of the Board of
Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro. Maureen Green, a lawyer with Newfoundland and
Labrador Hydro who was respected in the legal community for her abilities, has
not had her contract renewed.
I ask the Premier: Why was Ms Green's contract not renewed, and how much
did it cost the taxpayers for you to show Ms Green the door?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. member and a former minister knows very well that
decision was not made by this government under any circumstances. Under any
circumstances! Mr. Ed Martin was hired as the new CEO up there and he did a
compete restructuring. He met with all the employees and he announced that there
was going to be a restructuring which all the employees bought into. They liked
the direction in which Newfoundland and Labrador was going, because it is going
to be an energy corporation that we are going to be proud of.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: I have said it before, and I say it again, it is going
to be a combination of Norske Hydro and Quebec Hydro. It is going to be a model
corporation that is going to employ many Newfoundlanders and Labradorians,
create benefits and bring a maximum return back to Newfoundlanders and
Labradorians, unlike the previous government.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of Health and Community Services, and it is
related to a topic that the former Leader of the Official Opposition raised on
May 19, 2005 in Question Period to the acting Minister of Health, the now
Minister of Finance, concerning a study on the concerns raised by Gerry Higgins
and others in the Province on the possible relationship between electromagnetic
fields and cancer.
The minister answered, at that time, that he had concerns in this area and
that they would take a look at it, and if they felt it was necessary to pursue
it in any greater detail, he said, we will look at that and our officials, whom
we consider experts in this area, will make a recommendation on whether or not
we should proceed and do something of an extended nature.
I ask the minister if that indeed has been done, and when we can expect an
answer.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yes, I am familiar with the issue. There have been perhaps two or three
inquiries over the last several months. In particular, the individual from
Central Newfoundland that you have referenced. What I did, in fact, upon
receiving that inquiry, I instructed my deputy minister to request information
from across the country and, in fact, we specifically wrote both federal
Ministries of Health and Natural Resources. Some of the information has been
received by us in the Department of Health and Community Services. Thus far, the
information that we have received is not conclusive in the sense of any link
being drawn up on the issue that is being raised.
What I will say to the hon. member, Mr. Speaker, upon receiving the complete
set of information, I will be more than pleased to share it with my colleague
opposite so that any further development can be discussed here in the House of
Assembly.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the minister, that there are a large number of studies conducted.
Some of them, like the one between childhood leukemia and the personal
monitoring of residential exposure to electricity, and this finding related to
magnetic field exposures directly measured by personal monitoring support and
association with the risk of childhood leukemia. There are also other studies
with the Ontario electric utility workers that showed an elevated instance of
cancer among exposure to electricity.
I want to ask the minister, when he gets all this material gathered, will he
issue some type of an information package to people in the Province because
there are - and he will find areas of concern - things that they can do to
protect themselves in their own homes against the hazards of electricity?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I have just indicated, the information that we have received thus far is
not conclusive. We are in the process of gathering more information. We expect
to receive more as a result of the request that we have made and yes, to answer
the question raised by my friend opposite, when we receive the information I
will be happy to share it with him and with anyone who may be interested.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The time allocation for the New Democratic Party
representatives has passed. The Chair recognizes the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Since I just heard the Government House Leader say that it was the
prerogative of the Premier to hire and fire deputy ministers, I will direct my
question to the Premier.
Ann Marie Hann is another well-known and respected public servant who has
received national awards and has been credited with improving the Workplace
Health and Safety Compensation Commission since her appointment as CEO in 2000.
It was despicable to learn that while her staff were honouring her at a staff
party for her being awarded one of the top CEOs in Atlantic Canada, she received
a telephone call from this government summoning her to Confederation Building to
be dismissed. Ms Hann's credentials cannot be challenged. She is a strong
woman who has worked in senior government positions for years, including deputy
minister positions.
I ask the Premier: Why was such a competent woman dismissed and how much did
it cost the taxpayers for you to show another woman the door?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, this government did not dismiss Ann Marie Hann or
advise her that her contract would not be renewed.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS BURKE: As part of her contract, prior to the contract coming to an
end, it was incumbent upon the board at the Workplace Health and Safety
Compensation Commission to advise Ms Hann if they were going to be renewing her
contract or not. It was a decision of the board that they were not going to
renew that contract.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I recall, the chairperson of the board at that time was defeated candidate
Joan Cleary.
Mr. Speaker, another question -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS THISTLE: Another top level civil servant, Human Resources Director
Janet O'Brien, was ousted by former Cabinet Minister and current Chair of the
Newfoundland and Labrador Liquor Corporation, Glen Tobin.
Can the Premier tell the people of this Province the circumstance around the
dismissal of this highly, competent individual and what it cost the taxpayers of
this Province for you to show another woman the door?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Steve Winter, who is President of the Newfoundland and Labrador Liquor
Corporation, went through a restructuring to run that efficiently, something
that had not been done. Millions of dollars - we were outdated in IT and a whole
variety of areas. I was not asked, nor did I speak to them whatsoever, on
anything to do with this. I learned about it after the decision was made - is
when I found out, probably just as soon as the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
Absolutely, a decision of restructuring by the president of that corporation. I
assume, I did not even ask, the president discussed it with the board or made a
decision as president to restructure that. I do not know nor I did not ask, and
I am not getting involved in the day-to-day workings of a corporation there.
That is there to be run efficiently and do a proper job.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, it is amazing how the Premier went around this
Province and said no more political appointments and we have not seen the end of
it yet.
Mr. Speaker, my questions are on a political nature but it is not about
kicking people out the door, it is about hiring them and hiding them away in the
closets.
Mr. Speaker, recently the Premier's daughter's boyfriend, who worked in a
political staff position in the government members' office, was placed into a
public service position as Director of Communications with a department. Can the
Premier tell the House if his potential future son-in-law went through a job
competition or was he simply placed in the position because of his connections?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Mr. Speaker, we saw what they stooped to in the point
of order that was made today. I have been accused, obviously, of racism and I
have been accused of aspersing children. This is a serious matter for me.
We had an engagement party for this couple Saturday night at my married
daughter's house. Now, for this gentleman from Port de Grave, of all people,
to raise this issue. This is the man who was subject of the Steele inquiry, and
I will tell you what Mr. Justice Steele said about this gentleman. In my view,
the result was not to portray an impression of believability concerning the
primary business of the allegations by Mr. Noseworthy. I am satisfied that
Roland Butler gave Ambrose Stoyles the questions on the substance of the
questions to assist him in preparation for interviews.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Now, let me explain the answer, Mr. Speaker. It is very
important. So, we were not in the process of giving out answers to people who
are going for interviews. This man is hired as a qualified person -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Let me finish. I need to finish, Mr. Speaker!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
We have about thirty seconds left in Question Period. I ask the Premier if he
could finish his answer in that time.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: This government has hired this bright, capable,
qualified, young man in a temporary position, which is a perfectly legal thing
to do and which the members opposite know is according to the rules and
according to the rules of the Public Service Commission. So, he was hired in a
temporary position and he is eminently qualified and that is according to law
and according to rules. Shame on you!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The time allocated for Question Period has expired.
MR. BUTLER: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been called.
The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
MR. BUTLER: A point of privilege.
Mr. Speaker, we heard today, when this House started its session, that a
member in this House had to stand and withdraw comments that were made. I knew
this was coming from the Premier leading up over the last couple of weeks, an
issue that happened fifteen years ago, and finally we hit a nerve, to give this
Premier the opportunity to stand and make accusations of something that was
settled fifteen years ago.
Number one, Mr. Speaker, the competition at that time, there were no
positions filled at that time.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. BUTLER: There was an inquiry, yes, but there were no positions filled
(inaudible).
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
A point of privilege has been raised.
Members know that I treat points of privilege very seriously. The Member for
Port de Grave is making a point of privilege, and I would ask him to continue
his presentation.
MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, I am standing on this point of privilege and
taking it very seriously.
I say to the Premier, back at that time there were no positions filled. There
were competitions, yes, and there was a total inquiry. At the end of the day,
the Premier knows full well what the results were.
I ask the Premier to be an hon. member, like our fellow colleague on this
side, to stand and do the hon. thing and retract something. I can go back
fifteen years, too, and he might be on his feet, but I say it is shameful for
the Premier to go that low.
I asked a general question: Was there a competition followed? I received no
answer, only insults from something fifteen years ago, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair will take the matter of the point of privilege
under advisement -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: - and come back to the House at a later date with a
decision.
MR. E. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A point of order has been raised by the hon. the Government
House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible) but everyone else here heard it. The hon.
Member for Port de Grave just referred to the Premier as a scumbag.
That is unparliamentary, Mr. Speaker, and I ask him to withdraw it.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, being an hon. gentleman, I will do the hon.
thing and withdraw those remarks.
AN HON. MEMBER: The Premier won't do it, though.
MR. BUTLER: But I guess he won't do it.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask leave of members, if I could continue quickly down through the other
routine business matters. I think we have some documents to be tabled, if that
is the agreement?
Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair recognizes the Minister of Health and Community
Services.
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, in accordance with the annual report requirements under the
Transparency and Accountability Act -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair recognizes the Member for Bellevue on a point of order.
MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, a threat from the Premier just across the House
said to batten down the hatches - a threat across the floor of this House of
Assembly, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, this House does not call for this kind of
behaviour by the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador. You ought to do a logo!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I hardly believe that in this House, in any
other Parliament across the country, maybe in the Canadian House of Commons,
even in the mother of all Parliaments in Britain, are you going to find that
batten down the hatches is unparliamentary.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, for anybody who has lived in a
marine environment, with a marine history, it simply means this: When you batten
down the hatches you make her airtight, and that is exactly what we intend to
do!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Speaking to the point of order, the hon. the Member for
Bellevue.
MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, in Parliaments in the Commonwealth it is not as
much what is being said as how it is being said. The Premier pointed across this
House and threatened the Members of this House of Assembly, Mr. Speaker, and I
ask him to withdraw his comment.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair cannot rule on things that the Chair did not see or did not hear.
In this particular matter, however, I will check the video tape and come back to
the House with a -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: No, the Chair has ruled that the Chair will come back at a
later date.
Tabling of Documents.
Tabling of Documents
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair recognizes the Minister of Health and Community
Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Than you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to table the following: the Annual Report for the
Department of Health and Community Services, the Mental Consultants Committee,
the Mental Health Board, and the Nurse Practitioner Advisory Committee.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair would like to table the report of the Speaker as Chair of the
Commission of Internal Economy to the House of Assembly respecting matters
relating to Mr. Fraser March, the Citizens' Representative.
Notices of Motion.
Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.
Petitions.
Orders of the Day.
Orders of the Day
Private Members' Day
MR. SPEAKER: I do believe we are having Private Members' Day today, and
the hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair is now going to return to
her seat and we can have her presentation.
The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a motion for debate in the House with all of my hon.
colleagues, and the motion, Mr. Speaker, is referring to the development of the
Lower Churchill project. I think this has probably been a development that has
been discussed in our Province for quite a number of years and by a number of
governments over that period of time. I know that, for myself, in the last
decade, I have been probably engaged in a debate of interest and information
over this particular issue during that period of time.
Well, Mr. Speaker, I guess we are at that stage again: a stage in our
political history where we are looking to the major developments in our
Province, and how those developments can be achieved, and achieved first and
foremost for the benefit of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, the Lower Churchill, within itself, is one of the Meccas of
development for people in Labrador primarily. We have had an opportunity, I
guess, in our past, to be able to be home to some of the largest development
projects in Newfoundland and Labrador, and I would like to think that, while
some of them could have been improved upon in many ways, I would also like to
think that some of them have proven to be successful to some degree to the
Province and to the people of Labrador.
Well, Mr. Speaker, as discussions open again with the Lower Churchill
development, I guess, as one member in Labrador, I am sure that all my
colleagues here from the Labrador region will speak to this motion today and
express themselves, their views and their aspirations, and their expectations
around a development of this stature.
Mr. Speaker, my motion highlights a number of things, some of them which I
will get into shortly, but I think the most important thing that it highlights
is that previous commitments made by the government opposite were to ensure that
Labradorians were first and foremost in the development, and that Labrador
communities and its people would benefit.
I guess, Mr. Speaker, the reason for the resolution to the floor of the House
of Assembly today is because those statements are broad statements. They are
broad in the context that they are made and they do not get into the specific
opportunities and the specific expectations that Labradorians do receive or do
expect to receive as a part of this particular project, and that was my reason
for bringing the resolution here today.
I guess there are several things that I want to start, in terms of this
discussion. First of all, Mr. Speaker, there will be lots of debate, I am sure,
around past deals that were tried to be negotiated or tried to be done. The
reality is, Mr. Speaker, that none of it ever, ever happened. The Lower
Churchill project today stands as pure and untouched as ever. It has not been
developed, despite the years of negotiations, despite the amounts of money spent
on cost analysis and studies and recommendations and negotiations. The reality
is, Mr. Speaker, that the Lower Churchill project is still not a development in
this Province. So, we are still embarking upon a virgin territory in terms of a
negotiation, in terms of a new project, in terms of a new development.
So, Mr. Speaker, I want to refer back to a couple of things, and I guess this
will substantiate the reasons that I am bringing this resolution forward right
now. In 1999, in the provincial election, and I remember it very clearly, it was
the position of the Conservative government at that particular time - and I am
going to read that because they made these statements and they made them
unequivocally in writing as a platform - that they would follow an outline if
they were ever to look at this development. This is what they said: the Upper
Churchill contract is an arrangement entered into by Newfoundland and Labrador
power outside our Province to markets elsewhere. Ottawa did not treat
Newfoundland and Labrador as it treated other provinces. It denied us a power
corridor, even though it provided an electricity corridor for prairie
electricity and an oil and natural gas corridor for Alberta. Ottawa refused to
grant us this corridor, allowing Quebec to exercise its geographic imperative -
geographically imperative it would not otherwise have had. Ottawa's decision
to deny Newfoundland and Labrador the rights it had extended to other provinces
is what resulted in the deal that we got, meaning the Upper Churchill.
It goes on to say that the Upper Churchill deal is in our past but it is also
in our future and we have to ensure - another forty-one years remains in the
contract before it expires. Because it is Ottawa's failure to extend common
rights to Newfoundland and Labrador that caused this deal, therefore it is our
position that Ottawa must come to the table prepared to look at ways to fix the
deal. The only meaningful way to make amends for the wrong is through
compensation.
Mr. Speaker, it goes on to say that this development has to be done with
three parties. At that time, they indicated the Quebec Government as one of the
parties, including the federal government and the provincial government. It also
said that there had to be a right of the wrongs that were created on the Upper
Churchill Development Project. That was the policy document of the Conservation
Party in 1999.
Well, Mr. Speaker, in addition to that, over the years I guess as the debate
continued, there were a number of other statements made with regard to this.
Premier Williams, himself, when he stood as the Leader of the Opposition on five
different occasions, on August 1, October 24, November 22, November 27 and
November 28 - for the hon. members over there who want to write this down so
they can research it - made these quotes on a possible Lower Churchill deal.
This was all done in 2002, right before the provincial election. This is what he
said: If a deal is to be negotiated with Quebec, it must address the inequities
of the Upper Churchill; what is believed to be the most lopped-sided agreement
ever negotiated in the history of North America.
Well, Mr. Speaker, on five different occasions he said the same thing: I say
to those who do not learn from the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.
Nobody wants to see this Province walk away from the only lever we ever have to
seek some form of redress for the Upper Churchill. And he said: I will not
accept another position.
Mr. Speaker, he said those things on five different occasions, saying to us
that there would be no Lower Churchill deal ever signed by him or by his
government without there is redress on the Upper Churchill because he feels that
in doing so, he would have sold out the only opportunity ever in our history to
have the Upper Churchill contract redressed.
So, Mr. Speaker, I take confidence and comfort in those statements, I
honestly do. I take comfort in those statements because that, in itself, is a
position and a principle that he has set with regard to this negotiation. Well,
let me tell you about seven other principles that he has set with regard to this
negotiation. The other principles are this, and they were outlined by him on
November 22 in a public statement in 2002. This is what the Opposition, lead by
Premier Williams at the time, outlined as the most critical points, next to
redressing the Upper Churchill Contract, that had to be addressed in the context
of a Lower Churchill deal. He said, there is a forty-five year agreement that
will expire no earlier than 2055. He wanted that changed. That was one of the
goals he had set. He also said that he could not support it without redress on
the Upper Churchill, as I just indicated. He also said that he wouldn't be
able to support it without a transmission line for power to the Island. That was
another one of the conditions. He also said that Quebec, financing the project
with money they made from this Province on the Upper Churchill, was not
acceptable. He said: There is no guarantee - he wanted to see a guarantee of 100
per cent ownership of the project by Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. He wanted
to see a guarantee of 100 per cent management and control of the project by
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, and he also wanted to ensure that our own
Province could recall power at a price that was lower than what we were selling
it to Quebec.
Mr. Speaker, I agree with every single one of those conditions that the
Leader of the Opposition at the time, who is the Premier today, outlined in his
statement in the fall of 2002. He said that there had to be 100 per cent
ownership in Newfoundland and Labrador, there had to be 100 per cent management
and control in Newfoundland and Labrador, he said we have to be able to recall
power at a cheaper price than we are selling it into the North American market,
he said that we have to have a transmission line for power, he said that we have
to have redress on the Upper Churchill agreement, and all of these things, Mr.
Speaker, I support and I agree with.
Mr. Speaker, the reason I brought this resolution forward today is, as I
said, while all of those statements that were made by the Premier are good and
acceptable and I think the uppermost and important in negotiating of this deal,
I also think that the benefits to Labrador, in itself, are important. That is
the reason I brought forward this resolution today. The resolution itself
includes all the points that were presented at a public consultation session
held by the government in Happy Valley-Goose Bay just a few weeks ago. It also
represents the points that were indicated in a letter from the Combined
Councils, the position paper. In fact, Mr. Speaker, the Combined Councils had
ten different points in the letter they had sent and the platform that they put
out. My resolution actually doesn't go that far in terms of taking in all
those points.
Mr. Speaker, I reviewed the platform that was put forward by the Labrador
Party in the 2003 election in which they outlined a number of points they would
like to have included and addressed as part of the negotiation of the Lower
Churchill as it relates to the Labrador portion. I will indicate what all of
these are in a few moments and I will speak to them.
Mr. Speaker, the point of the resolution is this: We know where the
government stands when it comes to this development as it relates to the
Province as a whole, because we heard it from the current minister when he was
in Opposition, we heard it from the current Premier when he was the Leader of
the Opposition, and we heard it from the Member for Lake Melville. I have
hundreds of quotes here from him that I could quote, going back to 2001 and
2002. So we know where the government stands in relation to Newfoundland and
Labrador. What we do not know is where they stand in relation to the Labrador
portion, and that is why I brought forward a number of these recommendations
that were presented by the Combined Councils, that were presented by mayors
throughout Labrador, so that we could have a debate and a discussion around them
today, just to find out and get a feel for where the government is going as it
relates to these particular requests from Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, I am going to start, I guess, by talking to each one of them in
particular. One is that:
WHEREAS Labrador communities must have electrical power
which is affordable and reliable to sustain and grow the local economy. I think
every single community that expressed a public opinion around this issue said,
unequivocally, that they want to have access to electricity for their
communities and for their region, and they want to have it at an affordable
rate. I have never heard a community in Labrador say anything but that, and
every community's needs are different. The need in Lake Melville is different
than it is in the South Coast, the North Coast is different than it is in
Labrador West, but all of them said the one thing and that is that they have to
have access to cheap available energy. Whether that comes in the form of a
transmission line that will run from a Churchill development right through
Labrador, whether it comes in the form of alternative power development in
various regions, whether that be through other hydro development projects, well
then that is what people are asking. That is the request that they are making.
They are also asking that the power be available for industry development. I
know it is a key issue in Lake Melville, I know it is a key issue in Labrador
West, that there is going to be available power for industry, power that they
can access in a timely fashion, power, Mr. Speaker, that they can access and
market to industrial customers at a cheaper rate than what it is being sold into
Quebec or somewhere else where there is the same kind of industry. That, Mr.
Speaker, has been a priority for those particular communities and those regions.
Mr. Speaker, I know there are other alternatives, and I am not going to stand
up here today and say that wind power will not work or that solar power will not
work or that some other kind of energy development will not work, because the
truth of the matter is we are open to look at all the options. We are looking at
all the options, all of the possibilities, that can be and should be reviewed as
a part and parcel of any new energy developments in Labrador. Mr. Speaker, the
people I talk to and the people who were attending the public forums, they
really felt that if there is an alternative energy source that can be provided
to these communities in as short a time as possible, then it should be done.
Mr. Speaker, I know from my meetings with the Minister of Natural Resources
for the Province that he takes this very seriously and he has been looking at
these particular options -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The member's allotted time has expired.
MS JONES: Can I just have a couple of minutes to clue up, Mr. Speaker,
and then I will sit right down?
MR. E. BYRNE: Okay, (inaudible).
MS JONES: Yes, just to finish my point.
MR. SPEAKER: Leave to make some concluding comments has been granted.
MS JONES: I am just going to finish my point, because I will get fifteen
minutes at the end to say a few words. I just wanted to say that discussions
have been ongoing. All of the points that are addressed here with regard to the
inclusion of the Aboriginal groups, with regard to the procurement and the
employment opportunities for Labradorians, with regard to the environmental
assessments and the environmental monitoring that has to occur, with regard to a
heritage fund that Labradorians expect, all of these things, Mr. Speaker, were
expressed in public consultations, they were provided in writing to government
on a number of occasions, and we have had a number of discussions around them
already.
I will listen to the other speakers today, Mr. Speaker. I certainly hope they
can support the motion that has been put forward, and I will get an opportunity
to respond at the end of the day.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the member putting forward a motion, but I want to
put it in some context. Several weeks ago, the Government of Newfoundland and
Labrador held the first of what will be many public consultations in Labrador.
The Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair was there, the Member for Torngat
Mountains was there, and the majority of mayors from her area and across
Labrador were there. Many people came there with an expectation that night and
it was expressed strongly. At the table, for example, with the Premier was
myself, in my capacity as Minister of Natural Resources, the deputy Premier and
Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture, the Minister of Education was also there,
the Minister of Human Resources, Employment and Labour, and the Minister
Responsible for Labrador Affairs. The expectation that people came to the
meeting with was that Premier Danny Williams was about to announce a deal on the
Lower Churchill in Labrador. People expressed that night - I am not going to use
my opinion here today, I will use the words of the people in Labrador, the
people who spoke that night - that they came there expecting that Premier
Williams and the government were going to announce an arrangement on the Lower
Churchill because that is what they had been used to. That is exactly what they
had been used to.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. E. BYRNE: That is true, members said it there; no question about it.
Let me deal with the pith and substance of what occurred in Goose Bay. Many
people said to the Premier: Well, this is a change, this is a first, that this
is the beginning of an open consultation process. The member was there. The
Premier made a number of commitments to the people in Labrador, a lot of serious
commitments.
Let me quote what the Premier had to say: The reason we are here in Labrador,
he said, Mr. Speaker, is because this is your resource and we are acknowledging
it. Like I said before, this is the first time that this has been done. We, as a
government, are coming to you. We want to hear what your concerns are, what you
want, what your goals are, what you do not want government to do with this
particular resource. This Province has given away your resources in Labrador,
this government will not give away this resource. That is our guarantee to you
and I can assure you of that.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the member herself talked about - and I can
quote her but I do not need to, I have it in my own mind, I have it all here. It
is important. She said: I come here tonight as a Labradorian. I respect that. We
were there out of respect for the people in Labrador and for the needs of
Labrador. For example, those individuals who were involved - the member is
calling for us, in one of her
whereas, for example, let me get to it:
WHEREAS
environmental concerns must be considered and addressed through environmental
assessments. Labradorians must be provided with intervenor status.
The Premier made a commitment that night to do exactly that, so that is not a
problem. The Premier talked about, and said right up front, we are at least a
year away, at least a year away, from making any decisions whatsoever with
respect to the development of the Lower Churchill.
He talked about the options that were open to us as a people, as a Province
and as people in Labrador. He said there are three options that came out of the
Expression of Interest process at the end of phase two, but the one fourth
option was an option that we potentially could do it ourselves and that no
decisions would be brought forward unless the appropriate amount of consultation
took place in Labrador.
For example, I was originally planning to be in Labrador probably after the
first week of January but the federal election call has put that out a little
bit so it will be the latter part of January. I will be going myself with
respect to the Provincial Energy Plan, but in particular -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. E. BYRNE: I listened to the member intently.
MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, I say to the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au
Clair, I sat down and listened to her intently. I did not interrupt her. I am
just trying to put out our point of view of what transpired. It is her motion.
She is the last speaker today. She can wrap up and criticize me or speak to what
I am saying. All I am doing is laying out what transpired when we were there.
Mr. Speaker, with respect to the commitments that were made, it was clear. It
was clear by the Premier, it was clear by the government. He said we are at
least a year away, and we are at least a year away, from making any decisions.
We have committed to an extensive consultation process up front. We have
committed to providing people in Labrador, and everywhere else for that matter,
but in particular in Labrador, with respect to the development of the Lower
Churchill, all and any information that they need and require. I, myself, will
probably be into four different locations in Labrador, in all areas of Labrador,
on this consultation process.
Following my consultation process, Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro are going
in behind myself and the government to provide additional information. All of
this is an attempt to include the leadership and the people in Labrador into a
process to see if there is an opportunity to construct an arrangement that works
for the Province but ultimately, as the Premier said himself, works for the
people in Labrador.
He asked the people in Labrador that night, and the leadership there, and I
think they committed to it, no question. Speaker after speaker committed to the
process, that : We are with you right now. We are willing to work with you and
your government, Premier, as we move forward. As long as we can commit to, and
you commit and are committed to, the open process that we are talking about,
then we are with you, to work with you, to see what we can accomplish for the
people of Labrador.
The notion was put forward by the member opposite about a heritage fund
coming out of Lower Churchill. Do you know what the Premier's response was? If
we reach an agreement on the Lower Churchill a year to eighteen months from now,
we are still nine to ten years away from the construction of that project. We
are still nine or ten years away from the construction and the delivery of
electricity, if we reach an arrangement that is acceptable to everybody, and
only then would benefits flow.
The Premier said: I do not think we can wait until 2015. We have to come up
with an infrastructure plan now for Labrador. We have to talk about
transportation infrastructure. We have to talk about: Are there alternatives
with respect to the supply of energy for people who are not now accessing
renewable energy in Labrador? We have to talk about how we provide upgrades and
infrastructure to transmission lines going into Lake Melville, into Lab West
from Churchill Falls. We have to look at alternative options on the South Coast
of Labrador. Are there other river developments, for example? How can wind play
a
part in what we are up to? We talked about, for example, the commitments in
looking for alternative sources in the Northern part of Labrador; but, Mr.
Speaker, those are the things and the commitments that were made by the
government.
The member has asked us today to commit to a lot of what we have already
committed to, but there are other things, as well, that she is asking us to
commit to here. What I say to the member is that this is premature. This
resolution is premature. It is asking the government to -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. E. BYRNE: I say to the member, I listened to her intently. I did not
interrupt her. Since I have been on my feet she has been shouting stuff across.
If there is anybody who is trying to politicize this process right now, it is
the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair. That is what I can say to her.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: That is what I can say to her.
We have made a commitment that no other government since Confederation has
made to the people of Labrador with respect to the development of the Lower
Churchill, that they will be involved in the process, that there will be
extensive consultations, and that we will try to construct an arrangement that
works primarily - primarily - for the people in Labrador from the development of
the Lower Churchill arrangement.
If you want to say that I am politicizing it, I am not, but I can say this
with absolute certainty and with the strength of every bit of conviction that I
can muster up right now: It is an approach that, when she was in government,
they did not adopt, I can tell you that. I can tell members that, and members
opposite know, but that is as much as I am going to say on that because I am not
going to belittle the importance of revising or revisiting history, because the
people in Labrador know the history of the development of the Lower Churchill as
well or better than any member in this House.
Look, I think we need to understand that what the government has committed
to, and what I felt that night, and members who were at the meeting can stand up
and talk to as well, is that the leadership in Labrador bought into the message
that the Premier and the government delivered: Work with us, because we are
willing to work with you. Let's work through all of the issues so that we all
have the same level of understanding of what the challenges are of developing
the Lower Churchill on the one hand, and what the challenges are in meeting the
expectations of the people in Labrador on the other. Let's work through
alternative options and alternative solutions with respect to power needs.
I will talk about the heritage fund that the member talked about. I will only
reference what the Premier said again in Labrador in front of everybody. He
said: I do not think we can wait until 2015 to start talking about
infrastructure, transportation infrastructure, and infrastructure generally in
Labrador; we need to be on to that now. That is why, for the first time since
Confederation, this government, not like any other - and any former government
was not like the one that came before it - it is our opportunity to do it right,
because the traditional approaches have not worked. They have not worked.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. E. BYRNE: No, and I say to the member, again, who wants to interrupt,
there has not been a deal because your approaches did not work.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: That is why we have taken a different route. That is why
we, as a government, have put forward an energy plan consultation process that
will look out fifty years from now, that will look at how we can become, in this
Province, in Labrador and on the Island, an energy warehouse that provides us
with the lowest cost power to attract industrial customers on the one hand, Mr.
Speaker -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: - and, on the other hand, provides for an opportunity for
us to generate power and sell to other parts of North America, all with one
thing in mind: developing the economy of the Province and providing benefits to
the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Did we say that we have the energy plan and go out and say, this is it? No,
we did not. We say: Here is what we think. Here are the issues that are before
us. It is a very comprehensive document, and I encourage all members to
participate in the public side of this exercise which will begin in earnest in
January and will go on across the Province and in Labrador for a period of time
until everyone has had an opportunity, but the view of the government is
long-sighted. It is looking out to a point in time - 2041, to be frank about it
- when the travesty of the Upper Churchill and that development project comes
back, and the benefits associated with it come back, to the people of the
Province. That is where we are looking at. That is why we want to put forward an
energy plan that works for everybody.
Mr. Speaker, I will not be supporting the resolution today because it is
premature. I believe that the member, and I can say, the member got up and said:
We are willing to work with you, Premier. If there is one legacy piece, she
said, that you can leave - this is her words: If there is one legacy piece that
you can leave is to try to bridge the gap. That is what we are attempting to do
for the people in Labrador on this resource: To bridge the gap. Members, people
who are there from her own district, people who are there from Goose Bay, people
who are there from all over Labrador, I believe made a commitment to themselves
that night and to us that they were willing to work with the government to move
forward because the government has made a commitment to move forward with them
in Labrador in an open, honest and forthright way in trying to develop an
important resource.
The Premier asked people that night: Will they work with him and the
government to do that? We are a year away from making any decisions and this
private member's resolution today may form part - if we reach a solution - of
what we reach, but, Mr. Speaker, we are not going to tie ourselves in today to
commit necessary to all of the below, because, frankly, if we can get to a point
in time to reach an arrangement that is acceptable, it may look a lot better
than what is on the paper right now.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to say a few words on the resolution that is presented to the
House by the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair. I have to say that by and
large with the resolution as stated, I agree with the resolution as outlined,
for the most part.
Mr. Speaker, I have to say that the day for giveaways in Labrador with
development is gone. There will be no more of that.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. COLLINS: That day is gone, Mr. Speaker, and people in Labrador for
the last number of years have made that very clear, and government has
recognized it in the statements they have made, but the proof will be in the
pudding, I say, because we had the same guarantees on Voisey's Bay, that
Labrador would be the prime beneficiary. But, Mr. Speaker, I can assure you that
the problems I have dealt with in my district from people trying to get
employment at Voisey's Bay proves to me, in spades, that that deal was not
very airtight. There were no hatches battened down on that one, Mr. Speaker.
None whatsoever!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, the commitment that was given, when a huge
development like Voisey's Bay took place, to the people of Labrador, was that
we were supposed to be the prime beneficiaries of such work or opportunities or
business opportunities that would arise from that development. With our many
people, Mr. Speaker, many people who live in Labrador, who have the training,
have the skills for the work that is required in Voisey's Bay and then get a
look-in, while there were people from all over this country doing work they were
equally qualified to do. That deal, Mr. Speaker, is not one that I will accept
for any other further developments in Labrador, and we do have some big ones on
our doorstep.
The Lower Churchill and Muskrat Falls are two big developments. No question
about it, but there are others that will come on stream before that takes place.
One of them that possibly may come to fruition is by a company called Labmag,
who proposes to develop a 30 million ton a year iron ore deposit, or production
of 30 million tons a year in Schefferville, but it is in Labrador, the mine
itself. The ore is within the Labrador boundary. That has great potential if
that goes ahead. That will create a huge number of opportunities for people in
Labrador and beyond. But, first of all, it has to be for the people who are
skilled, who have the ability, who want the jobs. It has to be for them first.
As I said, Mr. Speaker, there isn't another time in our history to make sure
that happens and no more appropriate time than now.
Mr. Speaker, I agree, and I have been promoting for years, long before I came
to the House of Assembly, the concept of a heritage fund, or in mining we call
it a depletion fund, but the principle was the same. It was to have a certain
amount of money go into a fund that could be used in the event of downturns to
help generate many needed jobs that we require at that time, or it could be to
promote industrial development within the region of Labrador itself. Something
that we certainly, certainly need.
Now, I attended the meeting in Goose Bay as well, Mr. Speaker, and I have to
admit, I was surprised with the nature of the meeting and the outcome, because I
wasn't expecting a deal to be announced but I was certainly expecting a much,
more difficult time for the Premier and his Cabinet than they actually received.
I have to say, Mr. Speaker, it was due in large part, no question, to the work
that was put into the meeting prior to the meeting itself actually taking place,
the background work and meetings with various groups that took place prior to
the public meeting that evening. That was probably a strategic and a good piece
of planning that enabled that to happen.
Mr. Speaker, the majority of people, the vast majority of people at that
meeting, were certainly in favour of what was put forward by government, and the
views that the people at the meeting expressed were in sync with each other
regardless of what part of Labrador you came from, for the most part. That was
that the development as it progresses, first and foremost, has to benefit the
people of Labrador, in terms of jobs, in terms of electricity providers, and in
terms of the economic benefits that would flow from such a development. That met
with the approval of the vast majority of people who attended that meeting.
Mr. Speaker, there was a lot of concern, though, even by people who were in
favour of all that was being said. I think you are going to find this concern
reflected throughout the Province and the country, as projects of this magnitude
take place, and that is the concern expressed over environmental issues. It is
an area where we have to go carefully. The announcement at the meeting was that
the special interest groups, groups that had a cause for environmental concerns,
that funding would be made available for them to carry out and conduct the
research to make sure we have the correct view of environmentalists and other
concerned residents as to what was taking place would not be harmful or
destructive to the environment, in the way that the Upper Churchill development
was when that took place, with the flooding of hundreds of miles of territory. A
lot of the burial grounds, Mr. Speaker, that the Innu had and that they
travelled for years as their trapping grounds are now under water. That was a
disaster, something that I don't think would ever be allowed to take place in
this day and age.
Mr. Speaker, I think we have a lot of pressing needs in areas of Labrador. I
know in Labrador West we certainly need extra electricity for industrial
development, and we need to have a new transmission line run from Churchill
Falls over to Labrador West that would facilitate the additional electricity
required in the event that a major industry, that is a high consumer of
electricity, decides to relocate. It is an attractive tool for marketing, it is
an attractive tool for attracting investors to come to your area of the
Province, make a sizeable investment, and employ the people who live there.
There are other areas as well, Mr. Speaker, that are lacking, certainly, in
electrical needs. I think of areas along the South Coast, the Straits and up the
North Coast. It is absolutely ridiculous the rates that the Member for Torngat
mentioned yesterday in the meeting we had with the Combined Councils. Those are
rates that nowhere else, not in the Province and I would say probably nowhere
else in the world, people are paying. It is absolutely outrageous that
communities, as close as they are to probably the largest hydro development
producer and electricity site in the world, or certainly one of the largest, are
paying that amount for electricity in that close proximity to the largest hydro
development. There are other industries along the South Coast and the Straits
that have to shut down at certain periods during the day because of the peak in
electricity; they cannot operate.
All of that, Mr. Speaker, has to be corrected in order for communities to
develop and progress as they should be able to. There are many ways of doing
that, Mr. Speaker; many ways. Hydro electricity from the Lower Churchill is one.
Another way to do that, Mr. Speaker, is the development of rivers within the
areas that the electricity is needed. Wind power is another example that could
be used to generate electricity that may be able to meet the needs of the people
who live in the areas where electricity is in short supply right now.
Mr. Speaker, the heritage fund that this resolution calls for, I think is a
novel idea. It is a good idea and it is one that could benefit Labrador, in
particular, where this development will take place. It could really benefit
areas of Labrador by having a pool of money used for local development. Mr.
Speaker, I do not think that is a lot to ask. For many years, since the
development of the Upper Churchill, we have seen billions of dollars leave this
Province and flow to the Province of Quebec. We have seen, Mr. Speaker, the sale
of 127 or 130 megawatts of power, what we have called recall power, being sold
on the main line out through to the Province of Quebec.
Mr. Speaker, what we need more than anything in Labrador today is new
transmission line capabilities that go from the West to the East, and local
developments in other areas of Labrador on the North Coast, South Coast and in
the Straits area, that will meet the demands of the people who live there, both
for residential and business purposes.
Mr. Speaker, this resolution calls for many, many things and I know the
Government House Leader, the Minister of Natural Resources, said, that maybe
there can be a better resolution than this once they get further down the road
towards reaching a deal on the Lower Churchill. For today, Mr. Speaker, I will
support this resolution, and if what the Government House Leader says, in fact,
turns out to be correct, that there can be a better deal, then we can certainly
amend this resolution to accompany that as well.
On balance, Mr. Speaker, I do support the resolution as presented by the
Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair. I certainly hope, for the benefit of
all people in the Province, particularly those in Labrador, that this project
does proceed in a timely fashion, so that we can all reap the benefits that a
project of that nature will bring.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Lake Melville.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HICKEY: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
It is indeed a pleasure to get up and speak to the people of the Province, to
this hon. Assembly, but, in particular, to speak to the people of Labrador.
I want to take a couple of minutes, Mr. Speaker, to talk about my involvement
with Hydro, my knowledge of it. I grew up on the Hydro project, one of the very
first Hydro projects in Labrador, I am proud to say, the Twin Falls Power
Corporation. Then, that was the powerhouse that supplied power to the
communities of Wabush and Labrador City until the early 1970s. Of course, when
the Upper Churchill came on power, the community was closed down and we were
moved to Churchill Falls. I am happy to say, that I spent a lot of my childhood
growing up years in that community.
I know, Mr. Speaker, the aspects and the importance of hydro development in
Labrador. Having worked with hydro for twenty-five years, I certainly understand
the project and I understand the challenges and I understand what one has to do
in order to build a hydro project.
What I find interesting about this Private Member's Motion, Mr. Speaker, is
that my hon. friend, the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, is putting
this in place now when she was at a meeting in Happy Valley-Goose Bay and heard
the commitments on behalf of the Premier of the Province, heard the commitments
on behalf of the government on this side of the House, and heard what people in
Labrador had to say. I must say, Mr. Speaker, it was indeed a great session. It
was indeed said to the people of Labrador, that this government, this Premier,
is going to have a new approach on this particular project. We have seen the
faults of the past. I can say to my hon. member across the way, that indeed she
was a part of two governments that tired to do this project, and on both counts
failed. I can also say, with all confidence, Mr. Speaker, that this particular
member, to the best of my knowledge, never produced anything like this document
when she was on the other side of the House, when she was a Minister of the
Crown.
Mr. Speaker, this is about politics. This is about spreading gloom and doom
across the big land. Oh, the government of the day is going to take our
resources and sell them off to Quebec! I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, that under
the leadership of this Premier, under the leadership of this Minister of Natural
Resources, under the leadership of this government, that the people of Labrador
will be served.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HICKEY: Finally, Mr. Speaker, once in our lives we are going to
receive the benefits of our resources for the benefit of Labrador, Labrador
communities and Labradorians.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HICKEY: I can say to the hon. member across the way, she is
politicizing this knowing full-well that this government is committed to a
process. This Premier has taken a new approach. I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, the
people of Labrador, certainly from what I have heard and the feedback I have
gotten, like the approach that this government is taking.
We are in the very early stages of this project. The hon. member talked about
a heritage fund. Let me say, Mr. Speaker, truly the time for investment in
Labrador in infrastructure is not 2015. The time is now, and I am proud to say,
Mr. Speaker, that this government has started major steps in Labrador to look at
the infrastructure needs.
I can talk just to the Town of Happy Valley-Goose Bay, and the fact that we
are working diligently and I see success coming, certainly early in the new
year, when we talk about the new auditorium, when we talk about $4 million or $5
million, whatever is needed to put that new expansion onto the College of the
North Atlantic, Mr. Speaker, so that we can train Labradorians before the
project stops, not after the project stops, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HICKEY: Not like what happened with Voisey's Bay. We were sold down
the tubes by the hon. Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair and the then
Member for Lake Melville and the then Member for Torngat Mountains, on Voisey's
Bay. We found that out very clearly, Mr. Speaker, when the communities of Happy
Valley-Goose Bay, Labrador West and Cartwright were not included in any
agreement with government by Voisey's Bay Nickel for jobs and for the
communities that we were promised by the companies under the leadership of the
government of that day.
I can tell you, Mr. Speaker, Labrador and Labradorians and Labrador
communities are going to have every opportunity - every opportunity, Mr. Speaker
- to have their say, to have their input. I can tell you, the meeting we had in
Happy Valley-Goose Bay with Aboriginal people on this project, we are working
closely with the Innu Nation and President Ben Michel. We are going to work
closely with the Labrador Metis, and they are going to be involved in the
consultation process. The Premier has already, on two occasions, expressed a
view to the Metis to meet and to talk about this. The President of the Metis,
Mr. Chris Montague, has chosen not to meet, but that invitation is open. We want
to hear from all peoples.
Early in the new year, the Minister of Natural Resources will travel
throughout the Province and indeed all regions of Labrador as we talk about a
new energy plan - a new energy plan for the Province, and a new energy plan for
Labrador. At that time, we encourage again the opportunity for Labradorians and
Labrador communities to have input into what their expectations are and what the
reality is when it comes to electricity, electrical needs, and indeed electrical
rates. I have no trouble, Mr. Speaker, in talking about this, particularly in
light of the fact that the people on the North and South Coast of Labrador pay
some of the highest electricity rates anywhere in the Province of Newfoundland
and, indeed, as my hon. colleague from Labrador West mentioned earlier, probably
anywhere in the country. That is going to change, Mr. Speaker. That has to
change.
There are a number of opportunities, both on the North Coast and South Coast
of Labrador, where we can look at putting real jobs, real development,
developing rivers in those particular areas. I can tell you, we look forward to
working with the new Nunatsiavut Government on the North Coast as we look at
some of the challenges and issues that are going to be dealt with up there
regarding hydro power.
I can tell you, we are going to work with the Combined Councils of Labrador.
We just had meetings here this week, just yesterday morning, with the Combined
Councils of Labrador, and we talked about the issues on the South Coast. There
are a number of rivers on the South Coast of Labrador which we could develop to
provide jobs in Southern Labrador, for young people in Southern Labrador, with
hydro projects.
Mr. Speaker, my hon. friend and colleague, the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse
au Clair, can politicize this however she likes but, I can tell you, we are not
going to support it. I am not going to support her plan, because we saw her plan
in the past. We have a new plan. We have a new direction with new leadership and
a new approach that this government is going to move forward on to ensure that
this project happens, but, Mr. Speaker, that it happens in the best interests of
Labradorians and Labrador communities. That is what this member wants!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, when we talk about investment - I want to take a
few minutes - presently we have interests from a number of key investors in
resources in Labrador. We have investors who are now looking at the new Lab
megaproject over in Labrador West. We have investors who will be coming to my
district next week and I will be meeting them there to talk about an opportunity
of a mine in the Churchill River, a mine that will create, into full production,
somewhere in the vicinity of over $250 million worth a year of economic
activity, Mr. Speaker.
I can say to you that electricity is going to be a key component of this
development, but I can also tell you that the message has gone loud and clear to
investors: We want the full secondary processing of our resources done in the
communities adjacent to these resources. We want the maximum benefits for these
communities, no matter where they are in Province.
I can say to you, I looked forward to travelling with these investors as we
came to meet with the Premier and the Minister of Natural Resources last week
and as we move forward on some of the very interesting and exciting things that
are happening in my district, and indeed in Labrador, that will create much
wealth for this whole Province into the future, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, this is a very, very important project. This is a very, very
important project. It is a very, very important issue for me and for my
district. I want to say this very clearly: As we move forward with this project
there are going to be lots of opportunities for people to have their say and to
express their views on this particular project, but I can tell you the message I
am getting out of Labrador is that, at this present point in time, the majority
- the majority, I say, Mr. Speaker - of the people from Labrador are in support
of this project and this development, but it has to be done, certainly, in a way
- and the commitment has already been made by the Premier - that all questions
regarding this project will be looked at.
The Premier, at the meeting in Happy Valley-Goose Bay that the Minister of
Natural Resources alluded to earlier, gave a commitment there on the floor that
intervenor status will be given to anyone and everyone who wants to become
involved in this process so that they can do it through the EIS process, so they
can get the funding to be able to do the study and to research the issues that
they are concerned about. The Premier gave that commitment on the floor - on the
floor.
Mr. Speaker, I believe that the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair is
politicizing this particular issue, as she often does. I will say to you that
this here, this private member's motion, I will not be supporting it. I just
simply will not allow the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse Clair to put her plan
on the table. We have seen her plans in the past and, I can tell you, I am not
interested in seeing her plans for the future.
We have a plan here for this project, Mr. Speaker. This Premier has the
leadership and the wherewithal and the approach to be able to do this project,
to do this project properly, but we are going to prepare ourselves. We are not
going to leave the young people of Labrador until the day we are turning on the
switch at Gull Island and say we are going to train you now for jobs. We are
going to do that earlier. We are going to make sure that the College of the
North Atlantic has the courses and the training available to Aboriginal and
non-Aboriginal youth in Labrador, so they can take full benefits of the Lower
Churchill Project and the construction of the same, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, last week, a few days back, the Premier of the Province sent a
letter to the Prime Minister, and in that letter to the Prime Minister he talked
about energy. I say to the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, if you want
to lobby someone, lobby your federal cousins in Ottawa to give us a hand to help
out with the construction and the transmission of power on the Lower Churchill
deal, I say to the hon. member. And I say to you, Mr. Speaker, the Premier has
indicated very clearly that we want to know what the Prime Minister of the
country thinks about this. We want to know what the Leaders of the Opposition
parties think about this, and that is why the letter was sent and that is why we
are waiting a response from the federal parties.
Energy is a very, very important aspect of development in Labrador. It is
very important to the forest industry. It is very, very important to the mining
industry. It is very, very important to community development, and I would say
to you that this government, this Premier, this caucus, this MHA, is committed
to a very public consultation. I can tell you one thing we will not do, Mr.
Speaker, we will not travel to Churchill Falls with the Premier of Qu