Manitoba Hansard — 14 June 2016 (Sitting 20B, 41st Legislature, 1st Session)

41-1-20b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

First Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXIX No. 20B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, June 14, 2016 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CHIEF, Kevin Point Douglas NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon.

River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen St.

Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SELINGER, Greg St. Boniface NDP SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian, Hon.

Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC

799 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, June 14, 2016 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 4–The Elections Amendment Act Hon. Heather Stefanson (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I move, seconded by the Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade (Mr. Cullen), that Bill 4, The Elections Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la Loi électorale , be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mrs. Stefanson : This bill essentially outlines the length of the writ period for elections. Madam Speaker: Any further introduction of bills?

Oh, is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 5–The Francophone Community Enhancement and Support Act Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for Francophone Affairs): Je propose, appuyée par le honorable député de Selkirk, que le projet de loi 5, intitulé

Loi sur l'appui à l'épanouissement de la francophonie manitobaine; The Francophone Community Enhancement and Support Act, soit maintenant lu une première fois. Translation I move, seconded by the member for Selkirk (Mr. Lagimodiere), that Bill 5, The Francophone Community Enhancement and Support Act;

Loi sur l'appui à l'épanouissement de la francophonie manitobaine, be now read for a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Squires: Le projet de loi présente un cadre législatif qui appu iera l'épanouissement de la francophonie manitobaine et définit les mandats du ministre responsable des Affaires francophones, du Secrétariat aux affaires francophones et du Conseil consultatif des affaires francophones. En plus, la loi exigera que les ministères et des instances gouvernementales soumettent des plans stratégiques de services en français.

Le projet de loi répond aux demandes de la communauté francophone du Manitoba et démontre notre engagement à travailler de près avec ses leaders. Translation The bill introduces a legislative framework to support the enhancement of the Francophone community. It also defines the mandate of the Minister responsible for Francophone Affairs, of the Francophone Affairs Secretariat and of the Advisory Council on Francophone Affairs. The act will require departments and public bodies to prepare French language services strategic plans.

The bill responds to the demand of the Francophone community in Manitoba and demonstrates our commitment to work with the community leaders. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Bill 6–The Financial Administration Amendment Act Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance ): Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the Minister for Education, that Bill 6, The Financial Administration Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la gestion des finances publiques, be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Friesen : Madam Speaker, I am pleased to introduce this legislation that would permit members of this Assembly other than ministers to be appointed to the Treasur y Board while maintaining the requirement that the Chair, the Vice -Chair and the majority of the members of the Treasury Board must be ministers. Thank you. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Committee reports? Ministerial Statements? MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Fire & Water Music Festival Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): Madam Speaker, it gives me great pleasure today to address

800 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2016 the House and recognize an extraordinary event coming to Lac du Bonnet this July. From July 29th to July 31st, the 10th annual Fire & Water Music Festival will continue their tradition of showcasing local and international talent that features a wide variety of different acts. As the winners of the 2016 Festival Madness competition, this year's event is sure to be a remarkable one.

I would like to take the time to acknowledge some dedicated individuals here in the gallery today: Sheldon Sveinson, acting president; Sharon Sveinson, artist liaison; Skylor Mitchell, volunteer co -ordinator; Cyndie Mitchell, marketing and promotions director; Keegan Sveinson, treasurer; Dillan Homniuk; Brad Kowalchuk; Danny Mitchell and Nathan Mitchell. The fire and water festival was founded in 2007 and has grown every year since.

It brings local and international talent to a beautiful area of our province each year, giving local musicians an opportunity to perform at home while allowing them to teach and learn from other artists around the world, a tremendous experience for Manitobans. This festival not only has music; it proudly exhibits crafters through their Artisan Square Craft Sale and Trade Show, featuring the Fine Arts Show, which is only open to those who live in North Eastman or the beaches, which encourages local artists to connect, share and express with the community.

Demonstrating creativity and talent in a family friendly environment is a great way to spend a long weekend while also enjoying the great Manitoba summer. Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the volunteers again. I know this year's Fire & Water Music Festival be –will be a wonderful time for all those attending. Their passion and energy will undoubtedly leave a great memory for all of those in attendance. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Susan Livingston Mr. Wab Kinew (Fort Rouge): I rise today to honour the life of Susan Livingston, who lived in my constituency of Fort Rouge.

I'd like to welcome Susan's friends and family who are with us in the gallery today and those who will be watching by video from Fort Frances, O ntario, where Susan was from. I never had the pleasure of meeting Susan, but the stories from her friends and family illustrate who she was. On the racquetball court, Susan's opponents hoped to face her early morning, as she was guaranteed to still be asleep on the court. They dreaded facing her late at night when her inner night owl would come out.

Her presence on the court has been honoured with the tournament called Peace, Love & Racquetball, as well as the Susan Livingston Award, presented to Canadians who exemplify sportsmanship in racquetball and promote women in sports. Throughout her battle with cancer, Susan stayed in touch with her hundreds of best friends by email. She told the tale of meeting a Baldwin at the airport; she got a picture, of course. She reported on how much she was allowed to dance and whether she would follow the advice.

When Susan was no longer able to write these messages, her friends, Brad Lowes and Barry Pike, kept them coming, because these emails were so important to her friends. After her passing, hundreds of people attended the celebration of her life, most wearing feather boas, another of Susan's trademarks. With her one-of-a-kind spirit, Susan lives on through all those she touched and in the stories they continue to tell. Thank you. Miigwech. Jim and Betty Anne Gaynor Mr.

Alan Lagimodiere (Selkirk): We often rise in the House to honour those individuals in our communities that are volunteers who contribute tirelessly of their time to make our communities a success. But there's another group that also needs to be recognized. Today, I would like to honour Selkirk philanthropists Jim and Betty Anne Gaynor. Jim and Betty Anne are very honest, humble and unimposing individuals. When I approached Mr. Gaynor and told him that I would like to honour them in the House, he said, oh, I'm not sure we deserve that. But I have to share with everyone what they have done for our community.

The Gaynors believe that providing support to our youth and getting them on the right track, you can help the whole community. This is evident in their support for our community projects. The Gaynor family has made the largest contribution from a living donor to our Selkirk Foundation for youth projects. They also contributed to the construction of the Selkirk Skate Park. * (13:40)

June 14, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 801 When the library was in need of funding, they generously contributed to the construction of a new library. And most recently, they have contributed what some would consider a lifetime of savings to the sh elter for battered and women –children in our community, known as Nova House. To the Gaynors, this is their way of saying thank you to the community that supported them and their business. To our community, that goes far beyond thank you. Jim and Betty Anne Gaynor are an inspiration to all Manitobans.

We would like to thank you, the Selkirk constituency would like to thank you and I would like to thank you from the bottom of my heart for making Manitoba a better place to live, work and play. You truly are part of the heartbeat of Manitoba. Thank you. Judi Code–Citizen of the Year Hon. Eileen Clarke (Minister of Indigenous and Municipal Relations): We all know the importance of volunteers in our communities and that they are heart of many local organizations, clubs and fundraising events. Today, I'd like to pay tribute to one of Gladstone's best: Judi Code.

And I'm pleased to have her join us here in the gallery. On May 24th, 2016, Judi was awarded the Gladstone's Austin Cre dit Union Citizen of the Year award. This award recognizes individuals who provide excellent service and dedication to the WestLake-Gladstone municipality. Judi is a retired teacher from William Morton Collegiate and is no stranger to dedication and servi ce. And, I have to add, she was my grade 12 business teacher, and I thank her for that.

She has clearly demonstrated these qualities throughout the years not only as a teacher but as a community volunteer, very giving of her time and her talent on various projects. One project was for the golf club, where she tapped into fundraising opportunities and organized a plant sale. It's been a proven success, and this spring was the eighth year for that sale. Judi was also part of –one organizing Gladstone's green spots by creating the theatre courtyard. And during the holiday seasons, she continues to beautify our town and helps fill town planters with Christmas decor.

Judi has spent countless hours assisting local groups and organizations prepare and submit grant applications. Over the years has –Gladstone has benefited from her efforts and has received many grants that have provided the community with building renovations, accessibility upgrades as well as funding programs for seniors, just to name a few. Madam Speaker, I am truly pleased today to recognize Judi Code and to 'gratulate' her on her many accomplishments in our community and efforts and dedication to making the municipality of WestLake-Gladstone a better place to live, enjoy and appreciate.

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Support for LGBTTQ* Community Ms. Judy Klassen (Kewatinook): My first crush was Tom Petty. There was one day he was –there he was one day, singing Refugee on MTV, and I was smitten. I was very young at the time, so I didn't translate it into the fact that I liked boys. Growing up, my best friend loved playing dolls and dressing up as a princess with me. My young mind didn't think twice about it. He was continuously bullied at school. I stood up for him. Then, one day, he was simply gone. His family had sent him away to live in the city. I didn't even get to say good bye.

During high school, I learned of the two- spirited people, persons who had the physique of one gender and yet capable of handling the full run of emotions of the other. Or, better yet, just as I had liked boys, they liked the same-gendered persons. I live d my life by my indigenous beliefs of Mino Bimaadiziwin, living the good life, guided by our seven sacred teachings. I also still carry some of the catechism teachings of judge not or you will be judged, condemn not and you will not be condemned. Many of my best friends have children that are affected by my –disabilities.

Many are part of the indigenous community and many are part of the LGBTTQ* community. I am honoured to have been sent these wonderful, diverse people in my life. I used to think they nee ded me. I now know I needed them. Diversity in human beings. We are all equally disturbed by the reckless action of one intolerant individual in the Orlando shootings. I can't imagine what the parents of these children are going through. If my child was shot and killed just for being him- or herself, my world would end.

802 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2016 I ask for a prayer for all the brave people who are attending the first Steinbach annual Pride parade on July 9th at 11 a.m. Thank you. * * * Hon. Ian Wishart (Minister of Education an d Training) I ask leave to return to tabling of reports, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to return to tabling of reports? Agreed? [Agreed] TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Ian Wishart (Minister of Education and Training): I wish to table the annual report for 2014-2015 for the Manitoba Adult Literacy Strategy and Adult Learning Centres of Manitoba. Hon.

Cathy Cox (Minister of Sustainable Development): Madam Speaker, I am pleased to table the Supplementary Estimates for Legislative Review for 2016 for the Department of Sustainable Development. Madam Speaker: Are there any further tabling of reports? Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: If not, prior to oral questions, I would like to draw the attention of all honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today Mrs. Frances Wilson. Frances is 96 years young and has always been interested in politics and wishes the Assembly well. Ms. Wilson is the guest of the honourable Premier.

And on behalf of all members, we welcome you here today. ORAL QUESTIONS LGBTTQ* Students Promotion of Safe Spaces Ms. Flor Marcelino (Leader of the Official Opposition): Thank you, Madam Speaker, and you're right; Mrs. Wilson is 96 years young. She looks so youthful. Madam Speaker, we have listened to the LGBTTQ* community in Manitoba that say they need a safe space to live and to love whomever and however they choose. What is clear is that, d espite real progress, many LGBTTQ* Manitobans still feel they do not have that safe place. This is especially the case with young people.

Will the Premier acknowledge that schools have a duty to be a safe space for all young people no matter their sexual orientation? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): I appreciate the member raising the issue of safety, and the concern that we have of inclusion of all in our province has been highlighted, obviously, by the events of the last number of days in Orlando and elsewhere. I think it's important to make sure that we take every possible step we can to accommodate those who need to feel included in our society, as we all do.

And I am interested in pursuing discussion in respect of how we might advance those things. In addition to the point the member raised, I think, also, here in the Legislative Assembly as well, where there have been concerns expressed to me as recently as the kickoff to the Pride parade about–from people who were here about washroom facilities in our own building here. So these are issues that are heartfelt and they're issues that I think we need to further dialogue on and see if we can't do more to accommodate people's individual needs.

Madam Speaker: The honourable interim Official Opposition Leader, on a supplementary question. Ms. Marcelino: I thank the Premier for the response. Madam Speaker, one of the most important pieces of legislation that was passed here in Manitoba in recent years was Bill 18. It clearly established the requirement for human diversity policies based on the Human Rights Code and the ability of all students to establish gay -straight alliances.

The Premier and his caucus opposed the bill, saying it interpreted bullying too broadly and should not apply to all schools. * (13:50) Will the Premier admit he was wrong on Bill 18 and ensure that his government and school divisions fully implement all of its provisions? Mr. Pallister: Well, now, Madam Speaker, I think the member has certainly got her facts wrong in her

preamble on the rationale we had for working on making the bill better. We presented a number of very well -reasoned amendments, well researched, developed through consultation and extensive work with people in

June 14, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 803 various communities of our society, and t hose amendments were all dismissed out of hand by the government. They never explained why. They didn't allow them to be entered into the bill and they didn't allow them to be fully debated and discussed. And that was too bad, because I think that the opportunity to make the bill work better and to more effectively do the job of protecting children against bullying should have been uppermost in the minds of government members, but, apparently, was not.

That's sad, but that was the way the government chose to handle that bill, by putting their hands over their ears and not listening to constructive comments, suggestions or, in fact, any amendments, none of which were allowed to be debated by the members opposite. Madam Speaker: The honourable interim Offic ial Opposition Leader, on a final supplementary. Ms. Marcelino: I was informed that all those amendments were debated fully in the House. Madam Speaker, without a safe space for all, there is no safe space for anyone.

In recent months, a parent who publ icly called for the Hanover School Division to ensure same -sex relationships be part of the school's lessons around family diversity received threats instead. Seventeen-year-old Mika Schellenberg courage - ously called for a broader recognition of LGBTTQ* diversity in the school system. Will the Premier act to ensure that all school divisions, including Hanover, follow the law and respect LGBTTQ* kids' rights to feel safe in their schools? Mr. Pallister: Well, I hope we could all agree that that is the go al we're after and it's a question of process.

And, again, I would point out to the members opposite, and it was clear and I'd encourage them, if they'd like to read the interview with their former Justice minister in the Manitoba Law Society's publication, under the Golden Boy, he comments clearly in his interview that as a matter of strategy the government refused to entertain the possibility of any amendments to their bill. And he compared their strategy to that used by the previous government in the debate around the hog moratorium.

Now, these are the kinds of –this is the kind of political narrow -mindedness that doesn't lead to more constructive debate and to better legislative outcomes, and disappointing, I think, to all concerned with the best interests of our children. Hanover School Division Compliance with Diversity Policies Mr. Wab Kinew (Fort Rouge): Last week the Education Minister refused to intervene in the Hanover school issue, citing local autonomy. But this is about human rights.

Bill 18 clearly established that school boards must follow the principles of the Manitoba Human Rights Code in esta blishing school human diversity policies. Has the minister intervened to ensure that Hanover School Division is following the law? Hon. Ian Wishart (Minister of Education and Training): I thank the member for the question. As we indicated last week, that we would reach out to Hanover School Division to offer them any assistance that they felt was necessary, and we have done so.

They also–Manitoba school trustees association has been kind enough to come forward and offer additional resources that they have available to Hanover School Division to continue the process. So we certainly are all working and –together and hope that Hanover School Division is in a constructive process that leads them to the right outcome. Madam Speaker: The honourable m ember for Fort Rouge, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: With all sincerity, I do thank the Education Minister for bringing this update forward in the House today.

I also do know that he appreciates the real toll that homophobia, biphobia and transphobia exert on our society. With that in mind, can the Minister for Education please provide greater detail as to what steps are being undertaken to ensure that the human rights of LGBTTQ* students are being respected in the Hanover School Division and t hat the principles of Bill 18 are being followed? Mr. Wishart: I thank the member for the question. I know he honestly believes that it's very important that an inclusive society be constructed here. I think we're just really talking about process in reg ards to this.

804 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2016 We believe, very strongly, that the local community and the local school board have a place in this process and it is important that we exhaust all opportunities in regards to that before anything else would be done. And we do not believe t hat that has happened yet. In a community, you want to have a very constructive discussion about what needs to be done and what needs to be accomplished in that community, and I think that process is beginning to happen. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Rouge, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Kinew: I am a bit concerned that all the necessary steps to ensure that the process being exhausted take place in a respectful fashion, in a fashion that respects the human rights of LGBTTQ* people and students in the Hanover School Division. Again, I make reference to some of the comments that we saw in the Steinbach Carillon from some of the school trustees.

Therefore, I would ask the minister: As part of the work that he is undertaking to work with the Hanover School Division, will he commit today to making available LGBTTQ* awareness training to the trustees of the Hanover School Division so that we can be sure that they have the proper grounding in the Manitoba Human Rights Code but also in the contemporary issues lived by that community? Mr. Wishart: I thank the member for his question. Including in our offer to the Hanover School Division was the offer of–offering of making available awareness training, if they so choose– chose.

And we are certainly working with them to see whether that will be part of what they need in terms of additional resources. Media Communications Government Transparency Ms. Flor Marcelino (Leader of the Official Opposition): Day after day we are seeing that the Premier not only has a hidden agenda and he is prepared to go to almost any length to cover up his agenda. In question periods and even in Estimates, he and his ministers refuse to answer even the most basic questions. When it comes to the media, we are seeing far too often, quote, no comment, unquote, or, quote, unavailable, unquote.

We know the Premier was part of the Harper government, and we know Manitobans do not want to see Harper-style communications in Manitoba. What does the Premier have to hide? What is he afraid of? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, frankly, Madam Speaker, I'm puzzled by the question coming from the interim leader of the party that stayed in shape by running away from media, that r efused to go out the west door of this Chamber to do interviews for weeks on end and that had such a record of a hidden agenda that, in fact, it came out with a $1 -billion deficit after promising something about 40 per cent that level. These are not –this is not the record and this is not the behaviour of anybody committed to openness.

On the contrary, we, for the first time in modern Canadian politics, put out a platform, demonstrated exactly where each of our promises would be priced and how they would be priced and, actually, also offered up where we would take low-priority spending, reduce it and pay for each promise. And that's the exercise we're engaged in right now as the new government of Manitoba: finding savings in low -priority areas instead of just going back to the taxpayers of Manitoba and saying, give us more money, which was the habit of the previous government.

Madam Speaker: The honourable interim Official Opposition Leader, on a supplementary question. Ms. Marcelino: The list the Premier was saying took too long to be put out and not even on the amount that he stated. Anyway, Madam Speaker, we're already seeing how difficult it is to find out the government's true agenda.

It took more than a week and four different versions to find out that their so -called savings was, in fact, an incomplete list of cuts to seniors, infrastructure, education and immigrant services, and it usually only takes four questions before his staff cry, quote, last question, unquote, in media scrums. * (14:00) Is the real reason the Premier –this Premier is muzzling his colleagues is that he is not just adopting Harper-style communications, but Harper -style cuts as well?

June 14, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 805 Mr. Pallister: Well, Madam Speaker, again, here we go again. Seventeen years, and the government –the previous government couldn't come up with a budget before the election. A year ago, they tabled a budget and said they would have a deficit of about $400 million. Now we find out it's $1 billion, Madam Speaker. That's a $2 -million additional expense every single year, every single week, every single working day, actually, if you do the math. Now, when we –the member uses the phrase hidden agenda.

This is the political organization that went to the doors of working families across the province and promised they wouldn't raise their taxes and within weeks jacked up their taxes on their benefits at work, jacked up their taxes by including the PST on their benefits at w ork, 7 per cent additional bill for everybody, every working man and woman in the province, jacked up their taxes on their home insurance, 7 per cent additional on all their home insurance, and then the year after jacked it up again to eight. That's a hidden agenda, Madam Speaker. We know what it looks like; we've seen it.

Madam Speaker: The honourable interim Official Opposition Leader, on a final supplementary. Ms. Marcelino: The Premier was part of the government that said they won't privatize MT S, and they did and also, unfortunately, the vote -rigging scandal of the '95 election. Madam Speaker, what is also clear is that the Premier has a difficult time in being questioned or accepting any criticism. He often takes great offence to even the mos t straightforward questions from the press or MLAs. Manitobans expect better from the Premier and from the government.

Why doesn't the Premier respect the fact that Manitobans expect his government to be accountable? When will he and his ministers start giving Manitobans the true story about their real agenda? Mr. Pallister: Coming from a political organization that launched an historic rebellion inside itself against its own leader, I refuse to be offended by the member's questions.

This is a group of people that cannot get along with one another, Madam Speaker, that covered up costs, denied that they were going to raise taxes and then pursued an agenda of high taxes, said they were going to make progress on reducing our deficit, and instead lost groun d, monumentally lost ground: record tax hikes, record spending without getting results, Manitobans tired of paying more and getting less. We have a new agenda. We will review the spending proposals.

We will say yes to those that are of high priority to Manitobans, but we will not do, as the previous government did, and simply say yes to everything and then jack up taxes on working families and seniors all over the province, hurting their chances to find financial security in their own lives. We are on th eir side, Madam Speaker, and we will make the right decisions to secure Manitoba's financial future. Changes to Labour Legislation Consultation with Labour Organizations Mr.

Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Before I ask my question, I'd like to acknowledge some of our union brothers and sisters that are in the gallery from Unifor, ATU, PSAC, MGEU, IBEW, the MFL and the Winnipeg Labour Council. Madam Speaker: Before the member continues I just have to remind all members in the gallery that applause is not allowed during question period from members in the gallery, and I appreciate your co-operation in that effect. Thank you. And the honourable member for Flin Flon, to conclude his question. Mr. Lindsey: Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The abolition of the D epartment of Labour was an unnecessary provocation against labour, but the minister has assured the House that he has had active communication with the labour movement about this. Can the minister tell the House which labour organizations he has consulted in preparation for any of his forthcoming labour legislation? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade ): I do appreciate the question from the member opposite.

Certainly, on behalf of our new government, we want to offer our welcome to the visitors in the gallery from the various unions and appreciate your support and all the good work that you do across our country. Madam Speaker, we do have, I think, a pretty positive relationship with the labour organizations across our province. We are a new government but we're certainly open for consultation, and we made a commitment to Manitobans and we're going to br ing

806 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2016 forward that commitment for discussion to the Chamber. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a supplementary question. Leave for Domestic Violence Victims Consultation with Labour Organizations Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): I recently asked the Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade about the preparation of a regulation under a recent amendment to the employment standards act to permit a worker who's a victim of domestic violence access to employment leave.

That was two weeks ago, and in spite of the fact that he told the House he looked forward to working with the unions across the province and that it will be happening very quickly, Madam Speaker, has he started the consultations on this important issue and developed a plan for public education or is it just talk and no action here? Hon.

Cliff Cullen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade ): Madam Speaker, I do appreciate the question, and I recognize that legislation was brought in at the very last minute in the dying days of a 17-year-old government and there was not proper consultation done at the time because it was brought in at the last moment. Now, we will consult with Manitobans going forward on that particular legislation, and we will do the proper consultations that this government –the previous government failed to do. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a final supplementary.

Dissolution of Labour Ministry Request to Reinstate Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Clearly, it would appear that quickly has a different definition for this government than it does for the rest of us. The Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade, it would appear, is too busy catering to the friends in the business community to bother consulting with workers in the labour community. Manitoba workers deserve the attention and commitment of a full -time minister of labour and a department that serves their needs. Will the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) reconsider his ill-advised decision to abolish the ministry and appoint a minister of labour? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade ): I do appreciate the question from the member. We made a commitment on this side of the House to reduce the number of portfolios in Manitoba. We think it's a wise decision. We're saving over $4 million in that process. Also, within this department –this new Department of Growth, Enterprise and Trade, we're bringing labour and business to the table. This is the first time we've had business and labour at the table.

We think it's proactive for Manitoba; it's proactive for Manitoba moving forward. We've had very good discussions with the labour movement. We've been working hand in hand on certain issues in respect to the aerospace industry in Manitoba. We look forward, on this side of the House, to continuing those discussions and we value input from the labour side. Ministers' Contact Information Removal from Government Website Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): We've already heard from many Mani tobans who want to make their views known on a series of bad choices, poor decisions and now broken promises from this government.

Why has this government removed the telephone numbers for ministers' offices from the minister profiles on the official government website? Madam Speaker: I would just like to caution all members that in this Chamber, when you're referring to a minister, that they be referred to by their proper titles. That is a matter of decorum and respect, and I would expect all members to recognize a minister or other members accordingly and not be putting false names, as I'm hearing, on the record. So I'd appreciate everybody's co -operation. This is about decorum and respect in the Chamber. Hon.

Ron Schuler (Minister of Crown Services): It's always a pleasure to get up and answer questions from the member opposite. Clearly, our government has achieved a lot in seven weeks. We've had a Throne Speech which we have debated in this House and voted on. * (14:10) We've also had a budget that couldn't be done by members opposite within a year and a half and we got it done within seven weeks, Madam Speaker.

June 14, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 807 There is more to do, and we are certainly going to endeavour to not just finish the debate on the budget but also bring forward fulsome legislation which was asked for within the last election. And we plan on presenting that legislation and debating it. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a supplementary question. Mr. Swan: Well, Madam Speaker, with answers like that I think we know why these ministers don't want to talk to Manitobans. This government pretends it's interested in consulting with stakeholders.

They pretend they're interested in speaking to Manitobans, yet their actions show they aren't. Since this government came to power, the telephone numbers for ministerial offices and ministerial email addresses have been removed from the department and minister profiles on the official government website. Will this government commit to changing the website back so Manitobans can easily determine how to let their views be known to the Premier (Mr. Pallister) and Cabinet? Mr. Schuler: Well, it's always a pleasure to answer the questions from the member opposite.

We, as a government, came into government with a plan . We brought forward a Throne Speech, which we know that every member opposite voted against. We then brought forward a budget, which members opposite couldn't get done in the entire year and a half that they had to bring in the budget. We did that within seven weeks of being here, and I'd like to point out to the House that each and every one of them voted against that budget. We are a government that is on a path, Madam Speaker, that is going to be open and transparent. Certainly, within the last week, we have done more.

For instance, I'd like to point out to members opposite, we also produced mandate letters for each and every Cabinet minister– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Minto, on a final supplementary. Mr. Swan: Well, Madam Speaker, this minister can bluster and fumble on all he wants. The fact is that his government has chosen to make it more difficult for Manitobans using the official government website to find telephone numbers and email addresses for ministers' offices.

They used to see that information on the ministers' pages, and that information has now been removed by the new government. The government's action is the exact opposite of being transparent and accountable. And I'll ask again: Will the government commit to changing the official government website back so Manitobans can easily determine how to let their views be known to the Premier and the Cabinet? Mr. Schuler: Well, it's always a pleasure to answer the questions for the member opposite.

I'd like to point out to all members of this House that, on this side, our 40 members have been attending almost all the events that are taking place across the city. In fact, I understand members have participated in events that, before, the re weren't MLAs and members attending, and we're very proud of our government the way that we are attending events. I'd also like to point out to members that there is something on the Internet called the phone book, maybe they could look there for the numbers. They're all in place in the phone book. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order.

Provincial Nominee Program Application Wait Times Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): I don't believe the government understands how serious the administration problem is with the Provincial Nominee Program. There are far too many pending applications that have been filed for well over a year. Both the sponsors and the principal applicants are being asked to wait unreasonable times to find out whether or not they will be issued a Provincial Nominee Certificate. My question is: How long does the minister believe someone should have to wait for a response once they have submitted their application?

Thank you, Madam Speaker. Hon. Ian Wishart (Minister of Education and Training): I appreciate the question. We certainly know that it's very important to people that have applied under the Provincial Nominee Program that things be processed as quickly as possible. I made reference, actually, to a– in a previous question to the very great popularity of

808 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2016 this program, and the fact that many people wish to immigrate to Manitoba. So we're working very hard. I do have an update in terms of numbers if the member would appreciate it. We have a total inventory of applications at this point of 5,384. Qualification Review Request Ms. Lamoureux: I appreciate you –that you acknowledge the importance of the program. Madam Speaker, at one time the NDP did do a decent job at administrating the Provincial Nominee Program, however, for the past five years they have shown their poor management skills of this critical program.

What is being asked of the Africans right now is unreasonable. Perhaps the former government was trying to make the program more competitive, however, in doing so they diminished the administrative po rtion of the program and they excluded many eligible applicants because of financial constraints. My question is: Will the minister commit to fixing the mess that has been made of the Provincial Nominee Program by revisiting the qualifications for applying by the end of this summer? Thank you, Madam Speaker. Mr. Wishart: I thank the member for the question.

I find I agree with a great deal of what she said about what the previous administration had accomplished in this program. We are certainly workin g very hard to try and make this program work more efficiently and get better results. We believe we have about 4,000 applications processed now –sorry, by the end of September we will have about 4,000 applications processed, and hope that we will be ab le to process all the applications in due course.

I know it's frustrating for families that are waiting to hear on where their applications in the–are in the process, and we are working very diligently to get these done as quickly as possible. Madam Spea ker: The honourable member for Burrows, on a final supplementary. Ms. Lamoureux: I would like to thank the minister for his answer. On Monday, I delivered those questions to the minister, and I truly appreciate you answering them directly today here in the House. My one follow -up question is: Can you please commit to those 4,000 applications being looked over before September? Thank you, Madam Speaker. Mr.

Wishart: I thank the member for the question and the fact that she saw fit to make sure that we had the question ahead of time so that we could give her a real honest answer, and we certainly will be online, I believe, to reach that number of applications. I might like to add, Madam Speaker, that I tried the same thing with the previous government, and it didn't work.

Madam Speaker: I–before we proceed with questions, just a caution to the House again that when you're making your statements, your questions and answers, please direct them through the Chair in third-party comments so that there are no direct comments made to people using the word you. Thank you very much, and now the member for– the honourable member for St. James. Air Canada Act–Bill C-10 Impact on Manitoba Economy Mr. Scott Johnston (St. James ): We've seen all members of this House joined together to advocate for Manitoba jobs and to stand up to the federal government's proposed Bill C -10.

Today, industry representatives of Manitoba's new government stood together to defend Manitoba once again. Could the Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade inform the House how the federal government's aircraft purchase will harm the Manitoba economy? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade ): First of all, I would like to acknowledge the unanimous support of the aerospace industry and our recent resolution here in the Chamber.

Today, our new government stood with industry officials in support of the industry, and we called on the federal government to make a commitment of no net loss to Manitoba's economy as a resul t of Bill C-10.

June 14, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 809 Further, recent announcements by the federal government on procurement of new fighter jets does not bode well for our industry in Manitoba. Our new government is standing with industry and our community leaders to send a message to the federal government on this very important issue. We are asking all members of the Chamber to voice their opinion to the federal government on this very important issue to Manitoba. * (14:20) Conference Board Report Manitoba's Economy Mr.

James Allum (Fort Garry -Riverview): Yesterday, the Conference Board of Canada confirmed what our side of the House has been saying all along, that NDP investments in strategic infrastructure over the last 17 years make us one of the leading economies in the country. On the same day, Madam Speaker, the members opposite put out a press release saying investments in infrastructure is wasteful government spending. Madam Speaker, will the Finance Minister please explain to the House and to Manitobans why investments in infrastructure that creates good jobs for Manitobans is wasteful? Hon.

Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance ): Madam Speaker, it's good to have a question about our budget. It's –they–the opposition party seems to be out of questions already on the budget, asking questions about the availability of phone numbers that, of course, government's happy to provide. So we're happy to have a question on our budget.

Madam Speaker, we couldn't be more proud of the investments that we are bringing in Budget 2016, investments that will be meaningful for Manitobans, investments that, I will add, will also be measured according to value-for-money considerations to make sure that investments are broad, that are meaningful, that are really making a difference in the lives of Manitobans. This is the work that we're doing. It is under way. We could not be more proud of it. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry-Riverview, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Allum: Well, Madam Speaker, I've been asking the Finance Minister questions about the budget every day. He just won't answer them. But, you know, Madam Speaker, he li kes it both ways. First, he says on budget day that he's found $122 million in savings. Ten days later he says he's found $108 million in cuts, cuts to infrastructure, cuts to prevention, cuts to seniors and cuts to infrastructure. Mr. Speaker, these are the–Madam Speaker, these are the very kind of investments that has made Manitoba one of the leading economies in the country, according to the Conference Board of Canada.

Will the Finance Minister just admit that he's going to take this province backwards, not forwards? Mr. Friesen : I appreciate the question because it allows me an opportunity to contrast the records of these two parties: our party that is looking for meaningful ways in which we can make –reduce the size of these deficits against this $1 -billion challenge and that party on that side who failed to do that and instead raised taxes each and every time. As a matter of fact, the interim Leader of the Opposition went as far as to say that she had talked to low-income earners and they had no problem with tax hikes.

We feel differently. Affordability matters to Manitobans. We'll get there. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry-Riverview, on a final supplementary. Capital Projects Government Intention Mr. James Allum (Fort Garry -Riverview): The press release put out by the government yesterday clearly characterized investments in infrastructure, in education, for seniors and in prevention to be wasteful government spending. And yet at the same time they won't provide us a list of what capital projects are on the chopping block.

Will the Finance Minister simply table for the House today what projects, what capital projects, are on his chopping block? Hon. Cameron Friesen (Minister of Finance): The member seems t o be confused, but I am happy to enlighten him and indicate to him that

whereas his government chose to raise taxes because they wouldn't do the real and serious work of government to control expenditure growth, we have brought real savings to Manitobans.

810 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2016 We care about affordability for seniors. We care about affordability for students. We care about affordability for families. And a government that does that is a government that indexes tax brackets, raises the basic personal exemption. That's the work that we are under way to do. National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation Future of Capital Funding Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St.

Johns ): So far, this government has been patting themselves on the back for slashing $9 million in education funding to eliminate what they call wasteful government spending and, what we hear today, cuts in low-priority areas. The Premier has been silent on the future of the $1 million in capital funding for the national truth and reconciliation centre at the University of Manitoba. Can the Minister of Education confirm that he considers $1 million in capital support to the national Truth and Reconciliation Commission centre to be wasteful? Hon.

Ian Wishart (Minister of Education and Training): I appreciate the ques tion, but in terms of making things factually correct, I would like to put on the record that we have increased by 2 and a half per cent the amount of money to universities and by 2 per cent to colleges, so I can't imagine how they can possibly manage to c onstrue that as any form of reduction. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Ms. Fontaine: The Premier (Mr.

Pallister) and his Cabinet are putting out press releases bragging about finding hundreds of millions of dollars in cuts, but won't explain where they're coming from. Clearly, the Education Minister doesn't want to admit that the national truth and reconciliation centre is part of their cuts they're trying to hide. Will this government admit that they consider the national truth and reconciliation centre's $1 million in funding to be wasteful government spending? Mr. Wishart : I appreciate the question from the member. She needs to pay attention to what I answered.

We did increase funding, and she certainly should be aware of that. And as for putting out press releases, from that side of the House, really, Madam Speaker, they have such a history of putting out multiple press releases on anything they could possibly imagine. Even regularly funded departmental announcements would become multiple press releases in their hands. I really think the member needs to talk to her colleagues about who was the most guilty when it comes to using press releases as political tools. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. Ms.

Fontaine: The national truth and reconciliation centre builds awareness on th e legacy of residential schools and makes records and artifacts accessible to those who want to understand their own and their family's experience more clearly. The centre is an extension of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and is a physical marker of our path to reconciliation with indigenous peoples in this province. Will the minister admit that he doesn't see the value in the programming offered by the national truth and reconciliation centre? Hon.

Brian Pallister (Premier): The previous administration said yes to everything before the last election because they felt that it was their way to get popular. They said yes to everything, and, as a consequence, the deficit –their deficit projections went from about $400 million to $1 billion in one year. And that deficit is just deferred taxes on Manitoba families, and that deficit has to be serviced with interest, and it adds to a debt they've tripled in the province. So the reality is they raised taxes more than any other Canadian province over t he last few years.

Then they went to the polls and asked Manitobans to believe that they had solutions just by saying yes to spending. Now, this spending is dangerous, reckless, and it's already resulted in a reduced credit rating for our province, and it may again because of the fact that it was absolutely out of control. There are lots of worthwhile projects out there, but like all good parents and all small -business owners know, you can't say yes to every single thing or you move your province towards bankruptcy, and that's exactly what that administration did. Madam Speaker: Time for oral questions has expired.

June 14, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 811 PETITIONS Legislative Building–Gender Neutral Washroom Mr. Wab Kinew (Fort Rouge): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, these are the reasons for this position: The Legislative Building is a public building where everyone should be welcomed and feel comfortable.

(2) Washrooms in the Manitoba legislative and other government buildings are labelled as men and women, which do not fit the gender identities of all Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial gover nment to designate one washroom in the Legislative Building and all other government of Manitoba buildings as a gender neutral washroom. This has been signed by D. James, P. Harmer, T. Obandoerfer and many other great Manitobans. Madam Speaker: In accor dance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read, they are deemed to be received by the House. * (14:30) Mr.

Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): I wish to present the following petition: The Legislative Assembly building is a public building where everyone should be welcomed and feel comfortable. Washrooms in the Manitoba Legislature and other government buildings are labelled men and women, which do not fit the gender identities of all Manitobans. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to designate one washroom in the Legislative Building and all other government of Manitoba buildings as a gender neutral washroom. And this petition has been signed by R. Allard, M.

Howden and H. Prociw. Bell's Purchase of MTS Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of the petition is as follows: Manitoba telephone system is currently a fourth cellular carrier used by Manitobans along with the big national three carriers: Telus, Rogers and Bell. In Toronto, with only the big three national companies controlling the market, the average 5G unlimited monthly cellular bill is $117 as compared to Winnipeg where MTS charges $66 for the same package.

Losing MTS will mean less competition and will result in higher costs for all cellphone packages in the province. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to do all that is possible to prevent the Bell takeover of MTS and preserve a more competitive cellphone market so that cellular bills for Manitobans do not increase unnecessarily. And this petition is signed by many fine Manitobans. Legislative Building–Gender Neutral Washroom Mr. Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

The reasons for this petition are as follows: The Legislative Assembly is a public building where everyone should feel welcomed and –be welcomed and feel comfortable. Washrooms in the Manitoba legislative and other government buildings are labelled as men and women, which do not fit the gender identities of all Manitobans. We therefore petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to designate one washroom in the Legislative Building and all other government of Manitoba buildings as a gender neutral washroom.

812 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2016 This petition is signed by H. Dolenuck, J. Glenat, N. Clement and many, many mor e fine Manitobans. Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, before calling government business, on a matter of House business, in accordance with rule 33( 7), I'd like to announce that the private member's resolution to be considered on next Tuesday of private members' business will be Recognition of the Importance of Financial Literacy, brought forward by the honourable member for Radisson (Mr. Teitsma).

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' business will be Recognition of the Importance of Financial Literacy, brought forward by the honourable member for Radisson. * * * Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): And now, Madam Speaker, on government business, could you please resolve into Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: The House will now resolve into Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) EXECUTIVE COUNCIL * (15:10) Mr.

Chairperson (Dennis Smook): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for Executive Council. As previously agreed, questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Wab Kinew (Fort Rouge): I'd like to begin by asking the First Minister whether any of the questions that have been put as matters under advisement are now in a–ready to be followed-up on, whether any of those questions can now be returned to? Hon. Brian Pallister (Premier): Well, I thank my colleague for that. I have a couple of them. I don't have the list ready.

The department's still working on that, on the education programs that he raised on Friday, and it is pending. The–I'm not sure if it was raise d by the member for Fort Rouge or the member for River Heights (Mr. Gerrard), and the question was, is a labour contract–and I'm assuming he was referencing the MGEU, or maybe it was the member for For t Rouge–accounted for in the fiscal update? And the answer was yes, it is. On the question about any unbooked environmental liabilities , if the member for Fort Rouge can maybe nod at me that was his question.

I think it might have been the member for River Heights? [interjection] Okay, sorry. I'm answering a question you didn't ask, but I'll just put it out there because I did take it as noted. [interjection] Great. It was–the answer on that one is it's all known environmental liabilities are booked and that the Province's booking of environmental liabilities conforms to established accounting policies on–and I would assure the member that the department has assured me that they are looking at his questions on the–he asked, I think there were the Building Manitoba F und, school and university reduction.

They are working on those. Also on– and if I'm not able to, successor minister or Finance or Education in Estimates would be given the information that's been able to be assembled in that time frame that we have. And al so the $11- million reduction in amortization and interest breakdown is also getting worked on. And, as well, the breakdown on the number of unincorporated businesses versus not incorporated businesses, which, I think, was raised by the member for Fort Ga rry-Riverview (Mr. Allum), if I'm not mistaken–oh, that was–okay, member for Fort Rouge raised that, and I have those numbers for him today.

As of–this is as of 2014 tax year: 50,000 corporations in which the 27,000, that means–sorry. [interjection] That's in that 50, right? Yes. So of those 50,000, 27,000 are not non-profits; 65,000 Manitobans claimed business income; 8,500 claimed professional incomes – doctors, lawyers, accountants, that sort of thing;

June 14, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 813 31,400 claimed farm income –that doesn't mean they made money, that could be they claimed losses that year, too, yes, depends on the year; 1,100 claimed– for the member from Flin Flon who comes from the fishing capital of the province –they claimed fishing income as well –of course, that's more recreational than business up that way. So there was the –there's the breakdown for–in answer to that one. Mr.

Kinew: All right, I'd like to ask the First Minister specifically about the $9 million in cuts or reduced expenditures that were requested by post-secondaries, whether the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation, the $1- million capital commitment to that, was part of that $9 -million figure that the Province announced last Thursday. Mr.

Pallister: That's–I'm told that's what the department is working on in the context of the earlier question that the member had raised, because if it wasn't on the list, we'll add it to the list and then we'll endeavour to get back to the member with the –an update on the TRC component. I thought it was on the list. An Honourable Member: It was. Mr. Pallister: Yes. Mr.

Kinew: Yes, just in response to the First Minister's question, yes, that was part of the list, but, again, I'm asking for, you know, greater clarity or for specificity today because with some other conversations with people in the post -secondary field, we have been able to tell, without confirmation from the government, that some items on that list, including the $844,000 in additional spending for the joint midwifery program for U of M and UCN, has been removed from a post -secondary. So it leads us to believe that some of the other items on the list are, in fact, probably part of that $9-million figure.

Again, I listened to the First Minister's comments in the House today in question period, specifically asked about the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation. The response wasn't directly to the NCTR, but did talk about–I believe his words were wasteful spending, reckless spending, under the, you know, previous administration. So I would like to ask, you know, directly today about, you know, his commitment to the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation and whether he understands the vital role that this plays in the future of the education of our province but also in advancing reconciliation. Mr.

Pallister: I think there's tremendous value to be derived from the reading and rereading of the work that was done –TRC. I think it was a tremendous undertaking. I think it was an excellent initiative, but I, more than that, hope that the outcomes that derive from it and from the recommendations and ensuing discussions that'll happen as a consequence of that work will benefit, I think, Manitoba, above all other jurisdictions in the country.

As to the specific issue the member raises, there–it should n't be misconstrued, in my remarks in the House in question period, that in any way, shape or form, I'm not –that I am not supportive of the tremendous work of the now -senator and his colleagues. I have tremendous respect for him personally and for the w ork that was done. Nor should it be misconstrued, in the absence of clarification on the innumerable proposals that the previous government nodded support for, that there was necessarily a very real prospect each would be proceeded with in the coming fiscal year. Mr.

Kinew: Yes, I appreciate the First Minister's comments. Just by way of background, just because I know the First Minister's a very busy man and may not be familiar with the specifics of the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation, again, so just by way of background, the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation is the repository for all of the data collected by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission during its six -year mandate.

The centre resides at the University of Manitoba but is actually governed by a consortium of post -secondaries and an advisory group that includes survivors for residential school –residential school survivors, rather, as well as some members of the committee who are descendants of residential school survivors.

Again, I'm pleased to hear the First Minister acknowledge the historic importance of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, but recognizing that the NCTR is the repository for the work of the TRC and that that will be the mechanism by which the TRC's mission, mandate, evidence is presented to Manitobans and Canadians going forward into the future, will he support, you know, the necessary capital and operating funding to make sure that the NCTR can continue to do its work? Mr. Pallister: I thank the member for the

preamble and the question, both of which serve to allow me to say that our commitment is to review these –this proposal and all others meticulously to make sure

814 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2016 that we're pursuing the best possible value for Manitobans in every respect. * (15:20) And so I would ask the member's patience and understanding because we are doing this and it is worthwhile work and needs to be undertaken to get the best possible results for Manitobans in terms of not just this year, but in ongoing years. Ther e are innumerable proposals that come to government, and he well knows this, and all of them, I think, with some degree of merit.

And I've –or in my earlier comments made it clear that I am very appreciative of the work–of the example he's raising. But I also think it's incumbent on governments to do the necessary work to priorize their investments in every category, whether education, infrastructure, social services, health care or any other field of government, and that's what the, you know, the Treasury Board process is, that governments utilize in the preparation of their annual budgets are designed to do to get to the point of what is the thing we can do this year and what can we do later or next year or what should we not do.

And so I'm endeavouring to make sure that our government is cognizant that we can't say yes to everything, and it doesn't–should not be taken that on this specific–the issue the member raises, which I've already indicated we're endeavouring to find out where everything is on the food chain or the process here, it shouldn't be ta ken as a no, but it should be taken as a yes to the question are we going to look to be reasonable in our decision- making process so we're respectful of not just the needs of this year but on an ongoing basis from seven generations and more to come. Mr.

Kinew: Does the First Minister recognize the historic opportunity presented by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission to make meaningful improvements to the relationship between indigenous people and non-indigenous people? Mr. Pallister: Yes, I do, and I r ecognize the historical opportunities with the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples as well, and read every volume, and I continue to believe that these myriad number of issues –complex, intertwining, some of historical, some of modern significance, each interrelated–are issues we need to address, as people in Manitoba we stand to benefit.

As I said earlier, I think we should be at the lead of addressing many of these issues as a province. I think we stand to benefit as a province more than virtually every other province in the country. I would continue to believe that the aspirational goals –and I know the member supports them–to have every child in this province have opportunity to make their home here and find their full potential here is what we're all after.

And I think it's critical for us, in particular with respect to indigenous people who have for too long, statistically, not had those opportunities that others in our province have had or may take, in too many cases, for granted, but it's important to address them. So, yes, I recognize the value and I recognize the value to be derived by Manitobans as well of furthering this dialogue and furthering the opportunities for better public policy that address some of these issues. Mr.

Kinew: By wa y of additional background, the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation was a recipient of a gift last year from TD Bank who committed $10 million over 10 years, I believe it was, as well as other private corporations and private donors. So I presen t that as a

preamble to the First Minister, you know, seeing as how a $1- million investment by the Province in this institution would be matched by private money thereby, you know, creating a leverage situation, you know, whether, you know, that is the sor t of project where you can use public money to leverage private dollars that fits in with his espoused criteria of smart shopping. Mr. Pallister: Well, I don't know.

I'm not ideological in this stuff, but I think there are practical examples where we can go out to the private sector and get some help, and I've seen it at U of W –so has the member –and there are areas where that would not be beneficial or appropriate.

Certainly, in my work with my old school, Brandon University, on the side of the foundations, we spent a lot of time focusing on partnering with the private sector and going out, cap in hand, and trying to generate money for things like scholarships and bursaries for university students, high school graduates or ongoing support for students who needed that support, in particular, students who came from northern communities, rural communities, where accommodation at home wasn't an option and where cost was an additional factor. So there would be one example where we're hopeful.

And initial response, at least anecdotally, to

June 14, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 815 our approach to lever more money for scholarships and bursaries from the private sector would be an example of an appropriate way for us to lever capital from the private sector. I think there's no doubt –and members of all parties know –that Manitoba is blessed with some really powerful, community-minded-like people who are empowered by being part of a community, who want to do things to help the community advance. And many, many examples exist.

I think in terms of –I'm onto scholarships for a second, if the member will indulge me –but I think the work of the Business Council in supporting scholarships for indigenous grads is one example of that type of assistance and, I think, really serves, you know, serves to illustrate, th ough not exclusive to that group, serves to illustrate that sense of wanting to assist, and not just talk about assisting, but actually assist, in terms of a financial contribution to a cause.

So, yes, it is something that I think certainly in some areas of–like the example I'm giving is, of course, in the scholarship and bursaries side, but there are numerous other examples that the former Premier talked about some last year in our Estimates process, in terms of garnering support on some training initiatives, on some investments that –I believe the one we were talking about was Red River community college. There are some excellent opportunities for us to do perhaps a better job of partnering to generate support for projects like the one he's addressing right now. Mr.

Kinew: Well, I appreciate the First Minister's comments. And it seems to me, that, you know, he does favour situations where public money can be used to leverage additional dollars from the private sector. I'd submit to you, Mr.

Chair, for the benefit of the First Minister, that the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation, you know, seems to fulfill a number of criteria that appeals to members on all sides of, you know, the partisan divides; that it is built on the historic work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission; that there is partnerships from the private sector emerging to support this work; and that I would, you know, strongly encourage the First Minister to take a personal interest in this file and to ensure that the National Centre for Truth and Reconciliation does receive the necessary financial support, both on the capital and the operating side, to ensure that it can fulfill the continued mission of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission going forward in this province.

So those are the comments that I'll leave on the record and, again, you know, just for the benefit of you, Mr. Chair, to share to the First Minister. Returning to the broader point of reconciliation, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and thei r impact on, you know, good public policy, as the First Minister says, you know, when I look at the Calls to Action of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, I see that a number of them impinge on provincial jurisdiction. So Calls to Action 1 through 5 deal with child welfare.

Calls to Action 6 through 12 deal explicitly with education, and there's further ones that deal with other aspects of education tangentially. We see also health impacted on in Calls to Action 18 through 24. Justice is dealt with in Calls to Action 25 through 42. * (15:30) And, of course, there are more general calls to action, such as Call to Action 43, which suggests that all levels of government, including provincial and territorial governments, fully adopt and implement the Un ited Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples as a framework for reconciliation.

Given the historic nature of the TRC's report being tabled and the fact that these calls to action deal with a number of areas under provincial jurisdiction, I'd like to ask the First Minister why the TRC calls to action were not explicitly referenced in the mandate letters that were given to the ministers in charge of those specific areas, such as Health, such as Education, such as Justice, such as Families? Mr.

Pallister: I thank the member for his comments, and the Clerk advises me that following the TRC reports there was an initiative undertaken within the –within government to do, essentially, as he's described, and take the calls to action, break them dow n by department, of course, with a somewhat restructured nature of the Cabinet –with a smaller Cabinet that would be redefined. But nonetheless the work is the key thing, I think, that people are after.

The Path to Reconciliation Act, of course, we were all part of passing in the prior –or, some of us were part –I guess I shouldn't say we were all part; we've got a record number of new members to

816 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2016 the Legislature, so some of us were part of passing that legislation, which was designed to guide the reconciliation measures, including on- going engagement with indigenous peoples on the development and implementation of a reconciliation strategy, so, I would reference, also –some of this, I know, many of these recommendations are repeats of previous work that has been done over the years, and this is the, I think, the frustrating part for some of us that it seems to –it seems to take a long time for changes to occur, especially when we're very strong proponents of them.

I remember in–I think it was 2002, r eading a Senate study that was done over years called A Hard Bed to Lie In, and it was a study about the circumstances faced by indigenous women on reserve in terms of the –they were caught between a provincial jurisdiction which didn't apply and a federal Indian Act that didn't apply either on property rights. It wasn't exclusively women who were impacted by that. Of course, it was men as well.

It was the absence of the rules, and that report was, I think, shocking to those of us who took the time to read it, and we were amazed and so were indigenous women's groups in particular, who had been fighting for these changes for so long that nothing had happened for the previous 20-25 years.

So I appreciate the member's interventions very much because I think I can share with him when I was working with those groups in Ottawa to the best of my ability to try to garner support, I went to meet with the Globe and Mail editorial board and in no uncertain terms, following my little presentation to them, was told tha t this was an issue that didn't matter to the readers. And I was as offended in–I'm as offended in the recall of that event today, and having to tell that to you, as I was then.

I would say the Globe and Mail, as a publication, has come some distance now , and I think it's unfortunate that some of the events that have happened in our province, and the news coverage they've got, have been part of the reason. But all of us need to continue to advocate for improvements and changes in these important areas of public policy, so I welcome the member's sincere interest in this. There are–many of these areas have been talked about and studied at length and it isn't –it hasn't always been evident that many people were reading the reports, so I'm glad that he is. Mr.

Kinew: I appreciate the First Minister's comments, and I do note that in the mandate letter to the Minister of Indigenous and Municipal Relations (Ms. Clarke), that there is actually a directive to intervene with their federal counterpart to address the issue of underfunding of on- reserve education, and so I think that that's commendable. That's an important objective and one in keeping with the calls to action of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

However, we know that there are similar funding inequalities–inequities in the area of health, in the area of child welfare, that are mentioned in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission calls to action. So my first question to the First Minister would be: Why not address those in the relevant mandate letters to the ministers who have authority over those files?

And second part of the same question: Not wanting to rehash what's already been done, would he now commit to issuing directives to those ministers of Health, of Justice, of Education to explicit ly follow up on the calls to action of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission? Mr.

Pallister: My response to the member is that there are–there's an emerging area of academic study around deliverology, around how to get results while working with governm ents, both within them as government or in between them, as is the case he cites in respect of the federal government's lack of commitment over many years to education on First Nations reserves and First Nations communities. And so the intent of the mandat e letters that we released was not to try to spread the focus onto so many issues that we couldn't make a difference on some we had identified as emergent or needing immediate addressing.

This is not to say that issues not mentioned in the mandate letters cannot be addressed effectively or will not be addressed effectively, but there is, I think, a growing understanding and–on –of the lack of support on–in First Nations communities, a growing understanding on the education file. There was a very significant dialogue over the last few years; some progress was made, but we didn't get to the point of fruition where the additional hundreds of millions, if not billions of dollars flow to the communities so that we could've started to see some significant new inves tment in those communities.

This was why I highlight this particular issue in my instructions to the Indigenous Minister, because I think there is a critical mass that is, if not formed, is forming across Canada to work together at the provincial level and elsewhere, at the indigenous community level as well, to see changes, real changes, realized.

June 14, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 817 I guess what I'm saying is there's only so much you can do at one time, and I've seen –and I expect the member has too –examples where people try to do too much and end up doing nothing as a consequence. The danger with going after progress in too many areas simultaneously is you may make no progress at all. And so we've highlighted the issue of on-reserve education along with the relevant First Nations organiza tions nationally, provincially, as an area of key importance that needs to be addressed. It needs to be addressed respectfully as well.

Obviously, there are different needs in different communities all over the province. I'd say there's more diversity in t he 600- plus First Nations communities probably than there is in the rest of Canada, quite frankly. So there are differences that need to be understood in each of these –each of our provinces and territories. But that being said, for a long time the investme nt, the global investment, has lagged behind comparable investments in most provinces and territories by a significant amount. Mr.

Kinew: Well, based on the First Minister's comment, which I take to mean that the areas explicitly outlined in the mandate letters are those that he wants to see most urgent attention focused to, I would submit to him that the issues of health for – not just First Nations, but all indigenous people in Manitoba, that the issue of First Nations, but also all indigenous children involved in the child welfare system in Manitoba are very urgent and are amongst the most dire conditions lived by anyone in this province.

And it's on that basis that I ask why were they not explicitly included in the mandate letters using the TRC road map as a guide that were issued? * (15:40) Mr. Pallister: I think there's always a danger with mandate letters being misinterpreted, in particular by opposition politicians. The danger is that if it's not in there, then it must not be important. That seems to be the conclusion the member's drawing, and that's wrong conclusion. So if someone has a priority, that doesn't mean everything else is set aside. That's not all the reality here.

The member seems to be saying that by emphasizing the desire to get the fed eral government onside with supporting education, we're somehow selling short health care and other services, and I don't agree. I do know that the federal government has had approaches over many years under various political organizations on all fronts a nd has resisted change and initiative all too often and all too successfully, so I think we need to focus. I use this example even in respect of our aerospace industry. W e could start talking here about, don't you care about seven other industries in the province?

Well, I–of course I do, but I care about our aerospace industry, and we adopted a motion in the House unanimously last week to say we care about the aerospace industry and we want to see concrete steps taken so the federal government supports our desire to see a continuation and a growth, we hope, of a strong aerospace industry in Manitoba. Surely by adopting a motion like that –and we all supported it–this doesn't mean we don't care about other industries in our province.

That would be illogical and wrong to conclude, as is the conclusion the member's drawing in respect of my concerns of First Nation's education. Mr. Kinew: Just by way of additional background, the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal ruled earlier this year that the underfunding of chi ld welfare services on reserve, it was discrimination. It was a very clear decision, and they issued a subsequent clarification in which they said that the same logic applies to all social services on reserve. So I submit that to you, Mr.

Chair, as evidence that the growing consensus that there is a need to act on, you know, the delivery of social services, health, education, things like that on First Nations is urgent and is sorely needed. It's my personal view that provincial attention could move the bal l, to use a sports analogy, down the field, and that perhaps provincial intervention is one of the things that has been lacking to date in forcing an additional onus on the federal government to move forward.

But again I would reiterate whether the minister would commit–or First Minister, rather, would commit to providing such a clarification, as he acknowledges that the things that he explicitly directs his ministers to undertake are the priorities of his government, whether he would commit to providing a clarification to the ministers of Health, Justice, Families and others impacted by the calls to action of the TRC, to use those calls to action as a framework to guide their own governance but also the relationship with their federal counterparts. Mr.

Pallister: Well, I've attempted as best I can to address the issues the member's raised in the context of understanding the nature of these problems that he has outlined, and I've also endeavoured to outline that having priorities in one file that you want to see

818 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2016 addressed that are of an urgent nature does not mean that you're absent to other priorities. So I've done my best to address the issues the member's raised. I think he's quite right in citing the concerns that he has, and they are well underst ood, though not necessarily have they been well addressed over the last number of years here or elsewhere. And so I would ask for his patience given the eight weeks we've been in government that we will demonstrate with actions rather than mandate letters how we address issues. Mr.

Kinew: Just by way of additional comment, you know, I'd share with you that–just to follow up on the comments made about deliverology, which I think might be neatly summarized as set targets to help facilitate the achievement of goals. I'd just point out that a number of the calls to action do actually recommend setting targets, specific benchmarks in specific areas, mostly around, you know, social programs, but also some other immeasurables, such as income, for instance. And so, you know, I just leave that on t he record, again, for your benefit, Mr.

Chair, to be shared with the First Minister, as some of the seeming parallels between the methodology undertaken by the current administration and how it might be well complemented by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission's calls to action. I'd like to ask the First Minister about a comment that he made in his message to First Nations which was posted on the PC Party of Manitoba website on June 29th, 2015. I believe it was in the context of a visit to the Peguis First Nation.

And he said, and I quote: "It would be disrespectful to buy popularity among First Nations people with money taken from others." End quote. So I'd like him to explain what was meant by this comment, perhaps in two parts, (1) the characterization of buying popularity among First Nations people; does he mean by this that investments in social programs on reserve or infrastructure investments on First Nations are in some way buying popularity with First Nations? Mr.

Pallister: No, I was refe rencing specifically allegations that were in the news a few weeks prior concerning the chief at OCN saying that he had been made promises by certain political figures in respect– in exchange for support at the polls. And so I wanted it clear that I wasn't coming there to ask for support by making offers of spending other people's money in order to get that support. So that was the reason for the clarification. In anticipation of the trip to Peguis and other First Nations I visited, I did not want anyone to misconstrue the purpose and intent of my visits. Mr.

Kinew: And what is meant by the second part of the statement in which the First Minister refers to money taken from others with respect to the money spent on First Nations? Mr. Pallister: Well, what's meant is what's there. Money that we spend here in our roles as political people is taken from others, and the point being that I would not want any community leader, First Nations or not, to believe that I was trying to buy friends. I have friends and I didn't buy any of them. Mr.

Kinew: Does the minister see the potential for those comments to be interpreted as though the money being spent on First Nations in some way is money that First Nations are not entitled to, and that, you know, such comments might be counterproductive to the establishment of good relations with the First Nations and other indigenous groups? Mr. Pallister: That wasn't the reaction from the people I met with, so I think they had a pretty clear understanding of what I was saying and we had very good discussions in the meetings that we had following the release of that clarification from me. Mr.

Kinew: And can the First Minister explain for us, you know, what is his strategy around reconciliation for the Province of Manitoba? Mr. Pallister: Well, I can tell you what it doesn't involve, Mr. Chairman. It doesn't involve going to First Nations communities and trying to endear myself to them by making big empty promises of jobs that aren't fulfilled. Mr. Kinew: Could the minister provide greater clarity as to what he's referring to when he talks about big empty promises? Mr. Pallister: Well, I could cite

chapter and verse, at length, concerns of the present chief of OCN in respect of those issues, but I don't know if the member wants me to elaborate on that. I can, but I think it would be less than productive. Mr. Kinew: I'm merely asking for clarification. Again, my initial question was what is the First Minister's strategy for reconciliation in the province of Manitoba? He brou ght up an issue. I chose to follow up and ask for clarification. So I'd put it

June 14, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 819 to him again: What is his strategy to advance reconciliation in Manitoba? * (15:50) Mr. Pallister: Well, we can touch on a few things. I think–I mean, why don't I just highlight a couple of the aspects. I think, first of all, on the duty to consult, we have developed –we need to develop more fully, relationships with First Nations communities that recognize fully, and implement fully, strategies around the duty to consult.

There has been inhibitors in place for a long time in terms of things like exploration –mineral exploration, in terms of development, not exclusively in the mining area, and others as well, forestry, where it was not clear or the areas affected were not sufficiently clearly defined so that what we're hearing from industry members is there was a lack of interest in investing in the context of those undefined approaches and undefined areas. I think it's important to understand that this is not unique to Manitoba.

The jurisdictions that face these challenges, and other jurisdictions, have moved ahead with clarity on a number of fronts, that have assisted them in advancing, attracting, i nvestment in–and I'm citing mineral exploration as one example, but I suppose on a broader basis there are many others as well in terms of economic approaches.

I know another example might be sections of the Indian Act, which many bands–now, I don't have the recent data; this would be two or three years ago, but I believe over 60 bands have adopted resolutions for their jurisdiction that they will not enforce sections of the act that prohibit the repossession of chattels on their communities. This is something that many First Nations have acted on as best they can in the context of the presence of an Indian Act which is somewhat oppressive and offensive in terms of its abilities to inhibit economic development and growth in First Nations communities.

In this example I'm giving, members would need to understand that a, say, a couple living on a First Nations communities who wanted to go and buy a washer-dryer at the hardware store in Flin Flon would not, once they purchased it and took it back to the First Nations community, it could not be repossessed by the seller. So what that means is, in many communities across Canada, First Nations people have difficulty getting credit; they have difficulty negotiating a purchase the way a non -indigenous person coul d negotiate a purchase on that item because there are no prohibitions about repossessing a chattel.

Now, this could extend to, even to vehicles, computer equipment, any numbers of possible inputs. So if –so First Nations people are inhibited in respect of t he rules that exist under the Indian Act. BCRs in a few dozen bands have been passed to say, you know, don't worry about it; like, we're not going to stop you if you want to come and repossess our computer or whatever. And they did that because they knew t hat that would assist their people in their community in getting better deal at the store, quite frankly.

This–these barriers, some of these old barriers need to be removed, and I give this as just one example to the member of where I think we need to go to look at –true reconciliation is economic opportunity, and we're allowing barriers to continue to exist in too many parts of the country that get in the way of people who want to start a business or want to make an investment or create a job or just manage their own households. And this is tapping way too much opportunity away from First Nations people all over the country.

So I wouldn't want it –I wouldn't want the member to take that the only thing I'm worried about is jobs, but it is a –something that's coming up a lot in discussions I'm having with First Nations leadership, that they are very concerned about the economic opportunities and they would like to see more economic opportunity for their people. Mr. Kinew: I would tend to agree with the last statement made by the First Minister, and just put on the record that it's been my observation in my home community and others where there are–there is a lack of people working.

It's not for lack of a will to work; it is a lack of job opportunities and a lac k of available positions for people in the area. So I believe perhaps we're on the same point there. And now for a gentle correction to his characterization that true reconciliation is a economic opportunity.

I know that's, you know, not necessarily what he meant, and I would just underline to him that given the important personal toll that the residential school had on many survivors, that the important work undertaken by many church and faith groups and the important opportunities for personal fulfillm ent and growth afforded by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission suggests to me that true reconciliation is actually a spiritual journey as well. So I'd offer that to you, Mr. Chair, again, just as a commentary for the benefit of the First Minister and others to perhaps ponder on.

820 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2016 I'd like to know more about, you know, the First Minister's strategy with respect to the duty to consult. I was pleased to hear the Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade (Mr. Cullen) raise in the House the other day a dut y to consult framework. I would ask the First Minister, through you Mr.

Chair, what is the direction that the Minister for Growth, Enterprise and Trade is operating under in developing this framework and how will the duty to consult be positioned in this framework for industry, for business, for other people who would be the users–the end users of this. Mr. Pallister: Just let me say, I think the member is raising some excellent questions on topics that I believe could be and have been –I know, in part, federally–have been addressed in a non-partisan way.

And I want to really encourage him because I think these are issues that matter deeply to all Manitobans not exclusively in the communities directly affected either, but the whole province. I was part of the federal government that initiated a prime ministerial apology for the residential schools, and I was glad of that and I think that was a start. I was part of the federal government that established the framework for the TRC, and I'm proud of that too.

I am proud mostly of the work that people did, not exclusively the co -ordinators, not exclusively the main people, though I think the main people did tremendous work, but the people who came forward –the people that came forward and spoke about their personal experiences, their hurts, the legacies that they've been living, that their children are living, that –or children who came and spoke about their parents, grandparents, great grandparents and the affect that ill -advised, erroneous practices of years ago have had on their lives.

This was a genuine exercise, I think, in moving towards real healing, and I think moving towards what I call, I guess, an attitude of thankfulness and appreciation among people. As much as –and this I get from my –many of my indigenous friends, but they say apologies are fine, but appreciation's better, mutual appreciation, mutual respect, an at titude of thankfulness. I think what they're saying is that there's more healing in that. So I appreciate the member raising these things.

He's asked me specifically and I'll try to address it in whatever time I have left on that–this piece, but about the issues around duty to consult. I think there's been some efforts made by the previous administration. The former premier announced approaches on mining with an advisory council in the months prior to the last election in respect of revenue-sharing arrang ements. The details of how we implement those things will determine how effective they are at achieving real progress. Duty to consult will have to be part of that. * (16:00) The member knows a book I know he's read.

I believe, he referenced in a comment he made in the House, Resource Rulers, a very interesting take on the history of and the future of resource development in Canada.

And I don't wish to do an injustice to the author of the book by trying to paraphrase the book to members of the committee, but I will say that the –I think the thesis of the members, of the author's work is essentially that unless you want to move towards a duty to consult format that's well communicated, well understood within your provincial jurisdiction, you're going to be on the backburner when it comes to resource development in your province.

And in specific terms, he references the progress made in Quebec, in the province of Quebec some years ago in terms, and I think in this context he was talking as much about hydro development as he was about mining and– but the point being that Quebec's economy has benefited tremendously from a genuine step forward in terms of the consultative process between the provincial government and First Nations communities and leaders. And s o first steps have been, I believe, taken here in terms of the resource sharing template that the previous government spoke about.

But of course the, as they say, the devil is in the details, of actually, it's fine to talk about sharing, you know, profits from sales that are never made, but that doesn't mean anybody got a job out of it. We need to make sure that the structures that we develop here lead to investment, which will lead to development, which will lead to jobs, real jobs, for, certainly for indigenous people but for all Manitobans. Mr.

Kinew: One of the things that I've observed in the successes and failures of benefits sharing agreements in other jurisdictions is the lack of government investments to ensure that communities are poised to take full advantage of the things that they are afforded to under those agreements. So, for instance, there is a First Nation in Ontario which has a relatively rich impact benefit

June 14, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 821 agreement in terms of the dollar amounts of royalty revenues that they're entit led to receive. However, the community continues to languish in part because there's a lack of skilled labour force in the community, there's a lack of high school completion, there's a lack of accreditation, there's a lack of trade certificates in the co mmunity.

It's further compounded by the fact that though the community is entitled to environmental review and other forms of environmental assurances under their agreement, they lack the managerial capacity at the band level to advocate for themselves and to ensure compliance under the benefits sharing agreement with the company that they've entered into a relationship with. Contrast that with another community in the same province that has invested wisely in their own human resource development, but has also been the beneficiary of investments from the provincial government and the federal government.

They have a benefit sharing, rather a suite of benefit sharing agreements which are less rich in terms of their dollar value, but because the community has been able to mobilize their human resource development, their managerial capacity, the community itself is ISO 9001 certified, they have succeeded in having a greater quality of life for the average community member. So again highlighting, all this to say that resource sharing agreements, benefit sharing agreements are important, they are a good way to mobilize the duty to consult, mobilize Aboriginal and treaty rights for the purposes of economic development.

However, it is still incumbent on a provincial government and a federal government to make the necessary investments in educa - tion, in training, in workforce development, in managerial capacity development, in human resource development so that the communities that enter into these benefit sharing agreements are able to take full advantage of all the opportunities, whether that be jobs set aside, whether that be, you know, specific bidding opportunities, whether that be environmental assessments, whether that be traditional ecological knowledge assessments, and so on down the list, all the different provisions that might be undertaken.

So my question to the First Minister is, along with investing in the duty to consult framework and the development of that, which is primarily, as I understand i t, geared towards providing greater certainty towards investors and industry, does the First Minister also commit to undertaking the necessary investments in education and training so that First Nations, Metis and Inuit communities can take full advantage of this duty to consult framework as well–from the other side of the relationship? Mr.

Pallister: The member makes a lot of interesting points, and I would welcome the further discussion outside of this process so we can–we could get into more detail on a number of the topics he raises. I'll mention a couple of things. He's very–I think, a very justified observation that money doesn't solve the problem.

I have some good friends in that Wetaskiwin country, and I'm sorry I don't know the – I don't know the act ual name of the community, but it's near Hobbema in Alberta, and they're on a bed of oil and for some years, there have been payouts made to families and individuals on that community that are very, very significant. I don't know if royalties is the right word, but profit -sharing payments have been made. But, at the same time, the last numbers I saw on that community, there was–there were lots of societal problems. Not the worst in Alberta, but pretty bad.

Major gang problem, major drug problem, teen suicide, crime on and outside of the community that was beyond the drug trade, additional crime exposure to the criminal justice system, family breakdown. So I guess what I'm saying is, if money solved the problem, I think the member's quite right, if money alo ne solved the problem, problem would be solved in Hobbema, because lots of money coming in every year. Lots of nice trucks, and lots of other problems. I think it was –I think the biggest auto dealer in Alberta for a while was Grant Fuhr's auto dealership i n Wetaskiwin next door.

So lots of people making money, lots of people having money, lots of societal problems. The hospital's still dealing with far too many of the same problems that have–that poorer communities were addressing in more creative and co-operative ways with leadership from their elders, with leadership from their community people that are elected and unelected people. So I really agree with, I think, part of what he meant by his observation that it's how you use the money as much as it i s having money. The skill development piece is a really important piece obviously.

You can have an opportunity –we could have a mining company, they could have raw the material, but if we can't get skilled labour right in

822 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2016 that community, we're going to have to go somewhere else to get it. And this gets into second- rate employment. Not to suggest there's any job beneath anyone, but it gets into low -skill jobs for people on the community, and high- skill jobs for people coming from someplace else. Too frequ ently that's been a lament of community leaders I've met with over the years.

So skills development, training opportunities, quite rightly, are very important, hence, this is why I say the federal government needs to step up on the education commitment and it needs to be, of course, well managed. It's not enough in any training setting to just–anymore than it's enough to say that money solves the problem in First Nations communities, it doesn't. Money doesn't solve the problem in and of itself; it's the management of the funds that matter. But I agree that the skill development piece is very, very important.

I wanted to go back and I hope the member doesn't think it's a digression, but I want to go back to talk about, if I could, the sharing approach on res ource management. I've had some – I've done some interesting–to me, interesting reading on other jurisdictions. I've referenced Quebec earlier, that have moved ahead in respect of their resource sharing approaches. BC has done some major advances in the area of assisting indigenous communities in dealing with interest on resource development. This is a challenge for many of the community leaders. When a company comes in to their community, how do they handle that?

The community is very often divided, the uncertainty–divided by the debate about the opportunity. And so, how do you deal with it? * (16:10) Many First Nations communities have massive challenges in other areas. The member's alluded to some of them. They're dealing with housing challenges, they're dealing with social service issues, they're dealing with health -care issues, they're dealing with infrastructure issues.

And the councils are overburdened with decisions in all these categories, and then they're supposed to deal with a multinational comin g into their community saying, well, here, we–have we got an idea for you. So I'll elaborate later because I know I went too long, but I think this is another piece that I think would really assist a number of our First Nations communities if we could advance–if we could help them by adopting practices in other jurisdictions that work for them. Mr. Kinew: I thank the First Minister for his comments, which, you know, I take seriously.

Specifically, the last question was about, you know, a commitment to fundi ng training that would be under provincial jurisdiction. And, again, I would remind the First Minister that there is a jurisdictional squabble with regard to First Nations education. It's one that I do not accept. I think that a provincial government could step in and make more resources available to First Nations schools, and the federal government would not launch a legal challenge to them. So I think that there is a potential for action as long as it's done in a collaborative way with First Nations communities themselves.

But I'd remind the First Minister, again, there are other indigenous groups such as the Metis, such as Inuit peoples, which may not necessarily be under the purview of the federal Indigenous and Northern Affairs Department, who are enti tled to the duty to consult. And, therefore, fulfilling the duty to consult and making sure that those groups are able to take full advantage of the things afforded to them under those Aboriginal rights would likely fall under provincial jurisdiction. Make specific reference to the Metis, for instance. So I'll just leave that as comment on the record to you, Mr.

Chair, again, for, you know, benefit of whoever is interested, including the First Minister. Diving deeper into the duty -to-consult framework itself, I know it is often presented, including in the Resource Rulers book, that the duty to consult simply means that there's a requirement for there to be a conversation between industry and– well, between proponents and between indigenous communities itself.

However, one of the things that I noted was absent, and it's because it was published before the TRC report, is –from a lot of the conversations, like in the book Resource Rulers, is a recognition of the calls to action made by the Truth and R econciliation Commission.

And I'd make specific reference to call to action 43, which calls on provincial governments, as well as other levels, to implement the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples as a framework for reconciliation, and call to action No. 92, which calls upon the corporate sector in Canada to also use the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples as a reconciliation framework. The reason why I bring this up is because I think that in the absence of explicitly includi ng the TRC calls to action in the UN declaration, the duty to consult may merely be presented as a requirement to

June 14, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 823 have a conversation, which is one standard. However, the standard in the UN declaration and under the TRC calls to action is a higher standard, which is a requirement to obtain consent from indigenous communities. I know sometimes this is cause for consternation amongst, you know, government. It's cause for consternation among industry proponents because there's a fear that the requirement to obtain consent would necessarily mean a veto in practice. I disagree. You know,

(1) I think that part of this year of reconciliation is about building relationships, which involves building trust, and proponents and government need to recognize that indigenous groups are savvy and they understand that saying no means that the 10 per cent stake they may have been entitled to is 10 per cent of nothing, right? And so there needs to be recognition there.

And, you know, in conversation with the general counsel of a large multinational oil company in the country who, you know, has major operations here in Canada, you know, I'm paraphrasing here, but essentially, her words were, it doesn't matter to me if indigenous groups don't necessarily have a veto in law because they have one in practice. If I go into a space where I don't have consent to operate, I can have my project mired in legal challenges and court proceedings, potentially for decades. And as a result, it is a best practice for this multinational to use the higher standard of obtaining consent.

And, again, I believe that, you know, there's –in our own lives we can think of many examples where there's our legal requirements in terms of our conduct with respect to one another, but then, presumably we hold ourselves to a higher standard in terms of actually having respectful relationships with other peoples. So I share that analogy in terms of understanding how the legal requirement may be consultation, but in an era of reconciliation, bearing in mind– I see a yellow card from the –Mr. Chair, so I don't know if that means I'm almost getting a red card, or if that merely means one minute.

What I'd like to say, that in an era of reconciliation, the higher standard of consent is one which should be shared with industry, is one which should be shared in government training internally and incidents like that. So I would ask the First Minister whether he would direct his Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade (Mr. Cullen) to incorporate the TRC calls to action, the principles of the U.N. declaration in this duty to consult framework. Mr. Pallister: That is my intention.

And I would say the –I'll go back and say, for further clarification, the promises of duty to consult won't mean much in the absence of the detail around that. And so it's important that that detail be addressed in–I'll go back to my BC example, because the process, there, I understand as something we could possibly benefit from pieces of it, as is often the case. The process was developed with First Nations leadership in consultation with resource development companies.

And, essentially, and I will –and I'm not simplifying for the member, I'm simplifying because of a lack of memory because this is a year ago I read this report.

But, basically, it –what it did–what it was designed to do was assist First Nations communities who are, many of which, not exclusively in BC, are overburdened with dealing with the day -to-day stuff they have to deal with, to come up with some answers–some FAQs, as we call them –frequently asked–answers to frequently asked questions so that a resource company who might be interested in coming to our community might be interested in investing in our community, and we ourselves in that community, who are overburdened with all kinds of other challenges, would both have an understanding of how you go about doing this.

This puts meat to the bones of the general statement about duty to consult, so that –duty to consult about what? What specific criterial aspects does–do we have to address clearly together so that we can have answers these questions? So, for example, in BC, some communities were charging the companies that–a company that was interested in exploring possibilities for, I don't know, timber, we'll say, in the lumber industry –charging them a fee to come on to the First Nations community, to even have a dialogue. Is that acceptable?

Is that an acceptable practice, or–would some bands be –going to do that, and others not? And so each community came together in this process and said, well, let's not do that. Let's encourage people to come in, and not put a barrier in front. So they develop uniform practices within all communities so that there was some sense of certainty, so that potential investors, who would like to partner with First Nations communities, were no t discouraged in the effort.

824 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA June 14, 2016 This is just one example, but there were many others. And the point being: capital runs away from uncertainty a lot of the time.

And, so, because of the lack of clarification around the way in which the dialogue would be held, what questions would each– in the absence of this exercise, each question having a different answer depending on which community you went to, or changing from week to week or month to month because of a change in, maybe, leadership, because of the overarching challenge that many First Nations communities have with elections every two years in a lot of cases, and –there's another pet peeve of mine, many First Nations leaders', too.

These–the initial progress that seems to be happening in British Columbia is giving substance to the term duty to consult. It's helping communities understand what that means, it's helping investors understand what that means. * (16:20) And that's the detail work that I'm sure my predecessor, the member for St. Boniface (Mr. Selinger), has had advice on from –I expect he has from Ron Evans and others in his mining advisory committee, if I'm using the right term –I hope I am. That this is the kind of progress we need to make to.

We'll never have total certainty, I'm sure, but we can aspire to have greater certainty around how we deal with interested investors, how we deal with exploration initiatives, how we deal with industrial development and First Nations communities. There needs to be a renewed and very focused effort building on– building on the work of my predecessor, I believe, to advance the cause of certainty.

So duty to consult has to mean something, and it needs to be spelled out very clearly what that means, and I'm not sure that we've done that to the satisfaction o f industry proponents at this point or communities themselves. Mr.

Matt Wiebe (Concordia): And I appreciate the opportunity to ask a few questions yet this afternoon, and I certainly appreciate the line of questioning my colleague was on, but if I could, I'm going to switch gears just a little bit and go back to something that I'm sure actually the Premier's put some words on the record in this committee in this process probably already, but it's actually more for my benefit to sort of understand the process and just sort of understand the thinking for some of the decisions that have been made thus far.

And the question that I have is with regards to my portfolio as critic for Seniors as well as Health and Active Living. And, of course, the First Ministe r knows I've asked a few questions in the House with regards to seniors, and it is true that my phone has been very busy as of late with seniors being in touch with me about a number of issues. Certainly, first and foremost, I think, on their minds, though, has been the seniors tax rebate, and this is a rebate that seniors were sort of making plans with, you know, on the understanding that they were receiving this tax rebate for this year.

And, of course, the government has been quite proud of itself in saying that this is a $44 -million savings. I would contend that it's not–I wouldn't use the word savings, maybe, Mr. Chair, but this is what the government is saying. So my question is just simply, with regards to the rebate, if the First Minister could m aybe explain exactly how the rebate operates in the sense that I know on my property tax and the education portion of my property tax I get that bill, I guess, in May or June, and I pay that.

But, if the First Minister could maybe just explain what portion of the year that property tax and the education portion of the property tax bill, what portion of the year does that cover? Mr. Pallister: First of all, I wanted to congratulate the member on his re -election and on his new portfolio. It's not an easy one; there's lots in it, and I wish him the best with it. But I'm sorry I'm not –I could talk about the issue, but I'm not just a hundred per cent clear on the question on what the member's asking, so I –rather than use up time, I'll just go back to him and ask him. Mr.

Wiebe: I appreciate that, and, again, as I said, I'm learning here, so, you know, I'll try to make it as clear as possible to h elp you understand what I'm trying to ask, and that is simply, I understand we get our tax bill, our bill in the mail for our education portion of our property tax and our property tax in June, but what I'm asking is is what portion of the year or is it a calendar year, is it the fiscal year, what exactly are we paying when we pay that? Are we paying for the 12 months going forward from that date that it's paid, or are we paying a different portion of that?

So that's what I'm trying to get at. And, hopefully, that's clear for the First Minister. Mr. Pallister: Well, I thank the member for that, raising that. So my understanding is it's a calendar

June 14, 2016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 825 year and the previous rebate numbers–I should repeat them, and then–there was a rebate–I better not guess; I better get the real numbers here. [interjection] Yes. And–anyway, and then of course the government in the run- up to the last election said we're going to quadruple or quintuple it, and we said we didn't think it was a good idea and we're not doing it and we're going to use the –part of the challenge with the old program was that –I'm told, and we can maybe dig up the numbers on this or undertake to get them back to the member.

But a number of seniors either didn't apply, who were eligible, because it was an application-driven process, right? It's –you've got to take the initiative yourself to apply for it. So because a number of seniors were eligible to get it and didn’t apply, they didn't get it. Secondarily, a number of people applied who weren't eligible for it, so it was a waste of time for them, I guess. What we're going to do is have Revenue Canada administer it as part of your tax return. So i t'll be the case now that it'll be means tested, meaning that–and I'm going to dig up my numbers for me –but I think it's–if you're un

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-1-20b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 1st hansardpdf 20b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	63595e1584dcf8ac270a3c6a3664cd8a4112e782

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