November 16, 1999 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No. 32

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs.

MR. NOEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to ask hon. members to join with me today in paying tribute to a man who

was the embodiment of Christianity, a humble and selfless man of tremendous character and

commitment, who died tragically on October 22 of this year.

Brother Jim McSheffrey was a constituent and a friend of mine. I had the opportunity

and the privilege to work with him for some ten years on community issues in our district

and indeed issues to do with city-wide concerns, Province-wide concerns, and beyond that.

Because Brother Jim was a man of many facets.

He came to Newfoundland some seventeen years ago from central Canada to live in our

community and to begin carrying out his life's mission, which was to work for the

people who needed his assistance; to try to teach people how to do more for themselves. He

worked primarily through the Jesuit community in St. John's, the St. Pius X Parish,

and Gonzaga High School.

He took up residence on Brophy Place within my district. His house became a community

center in the district. It became an outreach house to which everyone who had need was

welcomed, and everyone who visited his house was co-opted into helping in his work if they

had the capacity to do so.

Brother Jim was unrelenting in his commitment to his fellow man. Indeed, when he died,

he was carrying out part of his interest in his fellow man. He died tragically while berry

picking on the cliffs surrounding our city, not usually a dangerous pursuit, but a

dangerous pursuit when done at the wrong time and when done by such an enthusiastic berry

picker as Brother Jim was. In picking berries, he felt that he was gathering the gifts of

God to be distributed to his friends on this earth, and he distributed a lot of them. I

was the beneficiary of some of his largess from time to time.

Brother Jim did not limit himself to trying to help people in his own neighborhood and

his own city. He participated in the peace movement and in the movement for social justice

throughout the world. He traveled to various parts of the world to carry out his interests

and to help others in need, but he spent most of his time and energy on Brophy Place, and

I'm glad to see in the House today some neighbors of his and some fellow participants

in the associations that he helped develop there.

Brother Jim was a leader in developing the Tenants Association in the area and in

building the community centre which has contributed so much to the area, in conjunction

with tremendous help from the congregation of St. Pius X Church.

Those of us who respected Brother Jim so much have begun a trust fund so that his

memory may be properly commemorated, so that his presence on this earth may be continued

and may inspire other people, generations to come, to realize that society looks up to

people who practice such values.

I hope that members of this House and other members of our community will help us make

this trust fund a success. Brother Jim would not want us to raise money in his name to

spend simply for the glorification of his life on earth and for the glorification of his

name, but I am sure he would not object if he realized that we were doing this to ensure

that the objectives he worked for will be perpetuated long after his time on this planet.

Other people are looking to do other things to commemorate his presence among us. One

of the things being discussed is to rename the area, to rename some streets and things

like that. I would simply ask today, Mr. Speaker, that you, on behalf of members of this

House, convey our sympathy to his family and our appreciation for the tremendous

contribution he made to our community.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On behalf of my colleague from St. John's East, who unfortunately could not be

here, who was also a personal friend of Brother Jim McSheffrey, I want to associate our

caucus with the remarks made by the hon. minister.

I do not need to reiterate, I think, the work that Brother Jim McSheffrey has done for

the people not only in Newfoundland and Labrador but the causes that he supported

internationally. It is fair to say that, with the loss of Brother Jim McSheffrey, not only

our community but our Province has suffered a loss as well.

Certainly, I would like to join with the minister and government in asking the Speaker

to send condolences to his family and friends. I agree with the minister that any

initiative that would commemorate the objectives of his life's work, to ensure that

the principles on which he stood, the principles of social justice that he practiced every

day, every waking minute of his life, that we could demonstrate in some way, form or

fashion, obviously is something that we could support wholeheartedly.

Thank you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am pleased to join with the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and the Leader of

the Opposition to pay tribute to Brother Jim McSheffrey. His life in Newfoundland was the

embodiment of selfless concern and effort on behalf of others. I had the honor of joining

with thousands of others in a public tribute to Brother Jim McSheffrey at St. Pius X

Church, and his example throughout this community for others is one that we should

emulate.

Brother Jim, as was pointed out, had been very active in the international peace

movement, social action, and particularly social justice for residents of our community.

We can pay tribute in a private way, as was pointed out by the minister, by supporting the

individual effort, but in a public way we can pay tribute to Brother Jim McSheffrey by

ensuring that the laws that we make here, that the policies that our government adopts,

follow the principles of social justice that Brother Jim McSheffrey stood for.

MR. SPEAKER: Before I call ministerial statements, I would just to take this

opportunity to introduce to all hon. members the two new pages who have joined us at the

House of Assembly. They are, to my left, Mr. Rodney Mercer, and to my right, Mr. Daniel

Mercer.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DICKS: Mr. Speaker, I'm pleased to provide this House with a mid-year

update of the economic and financial position of the Province.

It is within this context, today, that we are able to announce personal income tax

reductions for the people of our Province. These reductions are the first initiated by any

government of Newfoundland and Labrador since Confederation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DICKS: Mr. Speaker, a year ago there was concern about the world economic

situation. However, the international recovery has been stronger and faster than

anticipated.

Canada has benefitted from export growth and higher commodity prices. National real GDP

this year will be about 3.6 per cent. Within Canada, the economy of Ontario has been

particularly strong, reflecting its close trade ties to the booming U.S. economy. However,

the fastest growing provincial economy in the country is that of Newfoundland and

Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DICKS: Provincial growth is being led by the oil and gas, fishing, tourism and

construction industries, and is expected to be greater than 5.0 per cent this year.

Retail sales in the first eight months of this year have grown 6.8 per cent compared to

last year. The number of new motor vehicles sales alone has increased to 13.1 per cent.

The value of fish landings is expected to rise 30 per cent from last year, have a value of

over $900 million and will be the highest value fishery in our history, and will for the

first time surpass that of Nova Scotia.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DICKS: Between January and October, 10,500 more people were employed than in

the same period last year, an increase of 5.3 per cent.

AN HON. MEMBER: How many people?

MR. DICKS: Mr. Speaker, 208,400 Newfoundland and Labradorians are employed, the

highest number ever recorded for this period, and 10,500 more people than last year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DICKS: Non-resident tourists are expected to exceed 400,000, an 8 per cent gain

over last year, and up 32 per cent over 1996 levels.

Oil production is expected to be about 35 million barrels this year, up from 23.8

million in 1998. The Terra Nova project is under development and over 1,300 people were

employed on that project at the end of September.

We have every reason to believe that this economic performance will continue. Terra

Nova will enter production next year and oil production will increase at Hibernia.

Nineteen ninety-nine has been the most active year in a decade for exploration with seven

wells drilled on the Grand Banks and two on the West Coast.

Last week, Husky Oil announced details concerning the Whiterose project. From the

beginning, Husky Oil will undertake engineering, design and management of the project in

Newfoundland and Labrador. This establishes the benchmark by which other projects will be

measured. Secondly, Mr. Speaker, Husky disclosed that there is an estimated two trillion

cubic feet of potentially recoverable natural gas. The company will undertake drilling of

two to four wells in the new year to confirm and to expand the extent of these reserves.

Having become an oil producing province, we are optimistic that we will also be a producer

of natural gas.

Iron ore production is expected to rebound and a major capital investment program at

IOCC will increase capacity and output. Recovering nickel prices may set the stage for

moving the Voisey's Bay Nickel project ahead. However, agreement with Inco will be

contingent on the company submitting a plan that will see a finished nickel product

produced in Newfoundland and Labrador. The Gull Island Power Project is being negotiated

as we speak. Non-resource based industries including manufacturing and information

technology will also contribute to economic growth.

In March we projected a budgetary deficit of $33.3 million. Over the past six months it

has been necessary for the Province to respond to expenditure pressures. In health care,

we have allocated another $7.5 million for the conversion and creation of nursing and

support positions, which is in addition to the $47 million extra funding for health care

provided in this year's Budget. Other major expenditure variances include $6.5

million for forest fire suppression during our very dry summer, $3.5 million related to

student aid and $1.5 million for additional teaching positions.

Even with these increases in spending, I am pleased to announce that the financial

position for this year remains on target.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DICKS: Mr. Speaker, in early summer the Premier's Advisory Council on the

Economy and Technology was asked to review taxes in this Province. The council was given a

mandate to examine the tax burden on individuals and businesses to ensure that our overall

tax regime is fair, competitive and effective, while providing adequate revenues to

maintain social programs and a responsible budgetary position. As part of its review, the

Council undertook a public consultation process, and earlier this month completed and

released its report.

Some of the recommendations focused on reduction and eventual elimination of the

payroll tax, as well as increases to the corporate income tax. Over the coming months we

will thoroughly review these suggestions to fully evaluate the impacts on businesses

employing people in this Province. Decisions on those issues will be made in time for the

upcoming budget.

The people of Newfoundland and Labrador believe that personal income taxes are too

high, but that tax reductions should not come at the expense of health care and education.

Today is an historic occasion. For the first time in our fifty year history as a

province of Canada, indeed since our discovery 500 years ago, a government of this

Province has chosen to implement a personal income tax rate reduction.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DICKS: It is, moreover, the second time this government announced and enacted

major tax reform.

The implementation of the HST in April, 1997 put approximately $105 million back in the

hands of taxpayers. The HST low income tax credit pays $8 million to those most in need,

and the first payment of the senior's benefit in October of this year provided

another $5 million to low income seniors. Federal income tax changes in the last two years

have resulted in another $30 million in provincial income tax reductions annually. These

reductions and credits now total more than $150 million per annum.

Mr. Speaker, we have provided these tax reductions while maintaining a stable fiscal

position. Over four successive budgets, we have effectively balanced the books. We are

also the first government since Confederation which did not add to the public debt.

Today, I am pleased to announce personal income tax reductions which will see the

Government of Newfoundland and Labrador collect $175 million less provincial tax over the

next three years.

The government intends to reduce the basic personal income tax rate from 69 per cent to

49 per cent of basic federal tax. As of January 1, 2000, the basic personal rate of tax

will be reduced from 69 per cent to 62 per cent. On January, 2001, the Province will

likely move to a "Tax on Income" basis; however, the basis rate will be the

equivalent of 55 per cent of the basic federal tax. In 2002, the rate will be the

equivalent of 49 per cent. We will, therefore, over three years, move our basic tax from

69 per cent to 49 per cent of the federal tax.

To provide for greater equity among taxpayers at the lower income levels and to make

this change affordable, we will implement gradually increasing surtaxes each year.

These measures will greatly enhance the competitiveness of our personal income tax

regime.

These measures will result in the savings of $30 million in 2000, $60 million in 2001

and $85 million in 2002, and each year thereafter. A total of $175 million will be put in

the hands of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians over this three year period.

Mr. Speaker, the changes for 2001 and 2002 are contingent on our economy continuing to

grow and our spending remaining prudent. We will not fund tax reductions through cuts to

social programs or by deficit spending. Income tax reductions must be manageable,

acceptable, affordable and sustainable.

Mr. Speaker, this tax reduction program is prudent and within our means. It will not

compromise funding for social spending in areas such as health care and education. These

measures are in sharp contrast to the desperate promises made by the Opposition during the

last election campaign -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DICKS: - which would have drained the public purse of $871 million over five

years with large, unconditional reductions to personal income tax, immediate elimination

of the payroll tax and large HST credits. These could only be implemented by unacceptable

cuts to health care and education combined with unsustainable deficits.

Mr. Speaker, through this tax reduction, workers in Newfoundland and Labrador, whether

they are private or public sector workers, are effectively getting a raise in pay. The net

impact of this tax reduction by year three is equivalent to almost 2.5 per cent increase

in gross pay for a married person earning $40,000.

Mr. Speaker, responsible management of the Province's finances is paying off. We

continue to lead the country in economic growth and are well poised for future prosperity

and diversification. That prosperity and success will be shared with those who are most in

need in our society, and also with the people who shared the burden of high tax rates for

too long a period of time.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, let the record show that the Minister of Mines and

Energy is embarrassed and red-faced by the performance of the Minister of Finance.

Let me say, for the record, that it is true that our gross domestic product is

improving and that is a positive sign for the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador. It is

being driven primarily by the production in oil and gas operating under the Atlantic

Accord, an initiative of this Legislature and the federal government; it is being driven

primarily by an increase in the fishery, particularly the shell fishery; and it is being

driven by -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: I am about to get to it. You have had your statement; can I have

mine? I am going to get to it. Bear with me, Premier, don't be impatient. We will get

to you.

It is being driven primarily by the three big ticket items and by tourism. Certainly

the differential in the dollar has played a big part, Mr. Speaker.

Clearly, to paraphrase the Minister of Finance in a recent telegram

article - to

paraphrase the Minister of Finance in a recent public

article - he said: While GDP is

growing, we have a long ways to go to catch up to the rest of the country. It does not

mean that the revenues of the Province are going to be such that - in his view - we can

take care of all of the problems such as food banks; 14,000 less full-time jobs in the

economy this year than there were ten years ago.

Mr. Speaker, it is important that we understand that the economy and the movement in

the economy is a positive sign, a sign that consumer confidence, investment in the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador is up, but clearly it is also a sign and recognition

of where the dividends are and what we will do with them if they come, and continue to

come, in the way.

Mr. Speaker, I have one regret today about our Blue Book, and it is that we did not

copyright it. Because if we had, the biggest single contributor to the PC Party financial

fortunes over the next three years would have been the Liberal Party of Newfoundland and

Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: I want to congratulate the Premier and the Minister of Finance on the

tax cuts they announced this morning. It will be good for the economy, it will be good for

the people of the Province, and it will prove to be good for government revenue, Mr.

Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: He did a good thing. He did a good thing this morning but I'm

not sure, and I'm left speechless in some ways - not quite but almost - of why they

are so defensive about our Blue Book. All I can say is that we are not offended, sir, that

you have cribbed from it. We are glad that you did. All we can say is that if you would

like to crib some more from it, go ahead.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, it is clear that they are doing it. It is interesting.

It is very clear that they have done it and are going to continue to do it.

For example, I looked at the Orders of the Day, where it says second reading of a bill,

"An Act To Provide An Accountability Framework For Public Bodies." Where did

they find it? Accountable Government, the Blue Book. Let's go back to another page,

water export.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. E. BYRNE: For the record, we said in the Blue Book, on page 17, that "A PC

Government will introduce legislation to ensure all fresh water exported from Newfoundland

and Labrador is first fully processed in Newfoundland and Labrador, and to forbid the

export in bulk form of fresh water from this province."

It is clear to me and to the people of the Province that the initiative announced this

morning is something that we announced back during the election. The feeble attempt to say

about compare and contrast - the reality is that what we recommended this government took

to heart. They provided required reading for their own Council, their own committee on the

economy and technology, and we look forward to this government introducing more of what we

suggested over the coming months and coming years in this Legislature, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, let me say that I am pleased to hear the report on the improvement in our

economy. Finally, we have optimistic numbers to show for our record of business and

economic growth in this Province. I think that is very satisfactory and very optimistic.

What I do not like about the minister's statement is the self-congratulatory and

self-satisfied attitude of the people on both sides of this House, with the exception of

the New Democratic Party, about the circumstances that we have in this Province.

If we have $175 million for a tax break that benefits primarily the wealthy, why do we

have public service pensioners outside the doors protesting because they cannot get a

decent increase so that they can live properly? Why do we have 6.6 per cent of our

population, three times the national average, going to food banks? Why do we have 25 per

cent of our schoolchildren going to school hungry?

This statement by this minister and this government shows that they are satisfied with

the status quo, with the wide distribution of income in this Province, with the lack of

services that are being felt strongly by so many people around this Province. What we have

done with the tax reform package is cherry picked. The government has cherry picked the

recommendations, ignored the call for tax fairness in terms of increasing the corporate

tax rate at least to the Canadian average, and has honed in instead on an across the board

tax decrease which will put only $4 per week in the hands of the average family earning

$30,000 a year.

Even worse than that, for the more than half of working people in this Province earning

$15,000 a year it will amount to $30 per year, less than a dollar a week, and that is the

result of a Tory tax policy being adopted by a Liberal government. That is what we have in

this Province, Tory policies, Liberal government. What we need is tax fairness and social

justice.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

MR. EFFORD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to advise hon. colleagues of a new Government-Industry Working Group on

Fisheries which I announced at a news conference this morning. This new Working Group is

part of my department's new Quality Action Plan that will focus on developing a

long-term strategy to achieve and maintain premium quality fish products.

MR. TULK: You should have heard Beothuck Fish praising you up last night.

MR. EFFORD: I know.

Mr. Speaker, this is a joint initiative between government and industry that will

concentrate on a number of issues surrounding quality with an initial emphasis on the

shrimp fishery. The Working Group includes representatives from FANL, FFAW, the Barry

Group, Daley Brothers, Fishery Products International and representatives from my

department.

Through a team approach, we want to continue to create an awareness of the importance

of producing a top quality product and the importance of the proper handling of species

like shrimp through harvesting, offloading, transporting, processing and marketing.

The initial phase of the Quality Action Plan and the first function of the Working

Group on Fisheries will be to conduct a series of forums throughout the Province with

industry stakeholders to identify areas of concerns as it relates to quality, and pinpoint

ways to resolve these issues. The forums will take place over the next couple of months

and details of the first education and awareness meeting, which will focus on shrimp, will

be announced shortly.

We must be proactive if we want to be number one in the global marketplace. In order to

achieve this goal we must become more competitive and we must build on our quality

initiatives if we are to meet the competitive realities of the international marketplace.

This new Working Group on Fisheries will build on my department's existing Quality

Assurance Program which has been very effective, and we remain committed to this program.

However, our evolving fishery presents may challenges, especially in the shrimp fishery

which must be managed carefully if we are to derive the maximum benefits from this

valuable resource. The new Working Group will provide and identify expertise in various

areas to demonstrate the importance of maintaining a top quality product through all

stages in the handling process from harvesting to marketing.

I will be encouraging all industry stakeholders to participate in these meetings which

will help us develop a long-term strategy on quality in the fishing industry. It is

imperative that we work together to achieve a viable fishing industry for future

generations.

Together, Mr. Speaker, we will make a difference.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We here on this side of the House would certainly welcome any process that will improve

the quality of our fish products. I suppose the $900 million value of fish exports in this

Province this year is a reflection of probably of how far we have come. We have certainly

improved from where we were. I say to the minister that this group is certainly

worthwhile, going out and, from my understanding, they will speak to the stakeholders,

teach them new techniques, tell what the market demands, and what they demand as

processors in order to provide a top quality product to the marketplace.

I say to the minister that even though we have come a long way we still have a long way

to go. When I hear of not pounds or packages but tonnes of shrimp being shipped decomposed

from this Province to the marketplace, when I hear of court cases now, charges before the

courts, of tonnes of shrimp shipped out of this Province today, it makes me wonder how far

we have come or where we are going, or where this quality that the minister keeps talking

about is going.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. EFFORD: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please.

The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture on a point of order.

MR. EFFORD: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

For the hon. member opposite to stand here in this House this afternoon and malign the

fishing industry in the way in which he did is unacceptable to anybody in the fishing

industry in Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. EFFORD: Secondly, Mr. Speaker, this issue that he is talking about, the shrimp

has nothing to do with bad quality shrimp being processed.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please.

I will ask the hon. minister to take his seat.

MR. EFFORD: It has to do with a new technique that was being learned by a

particular fishing company in Labrador! The hon. member knows full well (inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The Chair has ruled that there was no point of order.

MR. FITZGERALD: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Member for Bonavista South on a point of order.

MR. FITZGERALD: Minister, it is not the industry that I'm maligning, it is the

minister and his policies.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Labrador West.

MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to congratulate the minister on taking this approach. At one time in most

of the industries in this Province, as elsewhere, I guess the quantity was the focus of

attention. The quantity that you produced in any sector dictated whether you survived.

Today it is quality-focused. Regardless of how many assets you have, if you don't

have the right quality you are not going to make it in today's workplace.

The teamwork approach that is mentioned here I think is the right way to go. We are

past the stage in our history where things can be done unilaterally. The team approach can

generate better ideas and come up with better solutions in today's workplaces, and I

congratulate the minister on this approach.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Industry, Trade and Technology.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS KELLY: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to update my hon. colleagues on some of the

exciting initiatives taking place in our advanced technology sector.

Yesterday, I participated in the announcement of the "Mobile Home Care

Platform," a project that will enable home health care providers to access patient

records and other information electronically. Computers and Communications Ltd. of Deer

Lake and Collaborative Network Technologies of St. John's are two of the innovative

companies at the heart of this project.

We also have exciting things happening in our marine information technology industry,

both here and across the country. Two hours ago, I participated through video conference

in the Marine Information Skyway announcement which took place from Ottawa. This is a $2.5

million investment initiative for the development of commercial opportunities in marine

satellite communications applications in our country. The initiative is supported through

the Canadian Space Agency, and this Newfoundland based initiative is the first project

under the new space program.

I am pleased to inform my hon. colleagues that the Marine Information Skyway project

will be facilitated through the Canadian Centre for Marine Communications (CCMC) office

right here in our Province. This is a natural fit, given our historic affiliation with the

ocean and our well-known marine expertise.

Newfoundland and Labrador is a world leader in marine industrial capability. Over the

years, CCMC has furthered this industry's growth through its innovative and flexible

approach to development and its focus on commercial applications. My Department of

Industry, Trade and Technology, through membership on its Board of Directors, is pleased

to work in partnership with CCMC on projects such as the Marine Information Skyway.

Our partnership approach has contributed to the industrial development of technically

advanced marine products and services that are being marketed around the world.

The Marine Information Skyway initiative will undoubtedly have a significant impact on

the commercial development of marine satellite communications applications in this

Province and across this country. This will also add to the tremendous growth in our IT

sector, which last year alone grew by an incredible 25 per cent.

I hope my hon. colleagues will join me in congratulating the Canadian Centre for Marine

Communications on this new venture. I look forward to working with CCMC to further develop

our marine technology industry in this Province.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We would like to join with the minister as well in congratulating CCMC in their

project, and as well to say to the minister that in regards to the mobile health care

platform we are always anxious to see new developments in health care, especially as it

relates to senior citizens.

I would only say to the minister that I trust now she will talk to the Minister of

Health and try and convince her colleague to try and do something now for the home care

operators in Newfoundland and Labrador who have suffered under this government since 1989.

If the minister ever needs an education on home care or home operators, give me a call

someday and I will pick you up and I will take you to twenty-seven homes that are in and

around my district. When you come out of it, Minister, you will certainly have a different

view. It is not only that we need better information and quicker information to help the

patients, but we also need to start doing something to help the homeowners in the

Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We are always pleased to hear that the technological development in this Province is

being enhanced. We have, as members know, provided leadership in marine communications

technology for a number of years through private initiatives and innovative technology,

Newfoundland and Labrador.

I hope that this will continue the initiative and make sure that we stay in the lead

and that the technology offers employment and innovative opportunities for Newfoundlanders

and Labradorians right here in our Province. The minister was a bit vague on the

consequences of all this and hopefully we will get more detail as time goes on.

In terms of the technological interests and The Mobile Health Care Platform, it looks

like a very interesting project. I would hope that the Centre for Health Information has

already worked to sort out how information might or might not be accessed on this before

we go ahead and share information widely about patients' care.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I first want to thank the Premier for providing the people of Newfoundland and Labrador

an update on the Inco situation via Manhattan. I would like to ask him this question

today.

In the quote today in The Globe and Mail it talks about how the government has

been adamant, and this Legislature, indeed, and all parties in this Province have been

adamant, about building a smelter/refinery in the Province before agreeing to formal

negotiations. The Premier has been quoted as saying: "I understand that Inco has

proposed something along those lines..."

Could the Premier today, after speaking with his Minister of Mines and Energy as he

indicated he would, update this House directly, and through this House the people of the

Province, on exactly what Inco has proposed for the exploitation and prosecution of

Voisey's Bay ore?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm delighted that the Leader of the Opposition did get an early copy of The

Globe and Mail so he could do some research for the first Question Period in five or

six months. I guess there were no other burning issues that he had on his mind, that he

does not want to talk about the tax break anymore.

I think most people in the Province are aware that we have tried to maintain ongoing

informal contact with representatives of Inco and Voisey's Bay Nickel Company. Maybe

we can hear from the Leader of the Opposition as to whether or not he hopes that the

headline is in fact correct, that Inco is blinking - if that is the headline - and that

they are ready or about ready to make a proposal that does, in fact, call for the

processing of nickel concentrate in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I understand that the Premier issued a press release again sometime today, just an hour

or so before the Legislature opened, that maybe the Leader of the Opposition has not seen

yet, where they confirm that they would like to present a proposal to the Government of

Newfoundland and Labrador that includes full and fair benefits for the people of the

Province and includes processing of nickel concentrate in Newfoundland and Labrador. We

still only hope that they find themselves in a position to do that very soon.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: It makes my day that the Minister of Mines and Energy is delighted

that I'm doing some research. Let me say to the Minister of Mines and Energy, seeing

that the Premier will not stand and answer the question, I will ask the question again to

you. What has Inco proposed? The Premier on a trip this weekend indicated that it is his

understanding that Inco has proposed a full smelter, a full refinery. Is that what is on

the table, Minister? Yes or no.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition is misrepresenting what I

was doing in New York. In the words of Minister Furey, who is of an entertainment bent of

mind, he said: Start spreading the news. I was down talking about the good news associated

with the economy of Newfoundland and Labrador, and pointing out to a meeting of the

Canadian Society of New York, including a full room of Wall Street bankers and investors,

that Newfoundland and Labrador is indeed a good place in which to do business and a good

place in which to invest at this time.

I should say that I think the speech got a good reception. I think there is a high

degree of interest in Newfoundland and Labrador today, both because of the current

performance of the economy which is moving at double the national rate, 6.2 per cent

versus 3.1 per cent -

MR. E. BYRNE: Point of order.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

On a point of order, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: (Inaudible) stop on Question Period. We are going to ask questions,

and according to the Standing Orders of the House we have to ask them.

I did not misrepresent what the Premier was doing in New York. I asked a simple

question, which was this: You are quoted today in The Globe and Mail as saying that

we are adamant about building a smelter and refinery in the Province. You understand that

Inco has moved in that direction. Have they? Have they made that commitment? Yes or no.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to take his seat. There is no point of order.

MR. E. BYRNE: I do not want to hear about your travels around the world. I just

want to know about the smelter and refinery in New York.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, I can well understand why the Leader of the Opposition

likes to misrepresent people. He wants to misrepresent the tax cut as his own because it

is a good one. The fact is it isn't his. His is not sustainable, his is not

affordable, his would have cost $145 million next year. The Leader of the Opposition is

going to be called to account for these amateur attempts to misrepresent government and

misrepresent -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. members to take their seats.

MR. E. BYRNE: Point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: On a point of order, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: I will ask the Premier again. I do not want to hear about tax cuts.

We have already talked about that. If you want to talk about it some more, fair enough. I

do not want to hear about your travels. I want to hear what you have to say -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: What has Inco proposed? A full smelter/refinery? Yes or no.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to take his seat. There is no point of order.

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Despite these attempts by the Leader of the Opposition to bury

discussion of the tax cuts, to bury a discussion of the real growth of Newfoundland and

Labrador, to bury an explanation for the work that was done in New York -

MR. SPEAKER: I ask the hon. Premier to conclude his answer quickly.

PREMIER TOBIN: - promoting the Province, Mr. Speaker, these issues cannot be

buried.

The fact is the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador is growing. It is doing well

because of sound -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

PREMIER TOBIN: - fiscal management and good negotiations, and that will not change

no matter what kind of temper tantrum the Leader of the Opposition is having.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: In the spring Legislature sitting, in the dying days of it, the

Minister of Mines and Energy speculated publicly about shipping ore out of the Province.

He speculated and was hopeful that they would have, through the informal discussions, a

proposal from Inco.

I am asking the Premier directly again because he has failed to answer it. He wants to

talk about everything else but that. He I think -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: - on his travels this weekend talked about how he now understands

that Inco has come full circle and will participate, and has made a commitment. That is

what he says: I'm led to understand, I do understand that a full smelter/refinery

complex will be built in the Province.

Mr. Premier, if that is your understanding -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to get to his question quickly.

MR. E. BYRNE: - could you made a commitment as to why that is your understanding?

What has led you to that understanding? Has Inco made that commitment? If they have, brief

the people of the Province, not the people on Wall Street.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, there goes the Leader of the Opposition again. If he

does not interrupt he might get a complete answer, but he insists on misrepresenting and

then interrupting when his misrepresentation is pointed out. It is a deliberate and

frequently repeated technique by the Leader of the Opposition.

The fact is I was on Wall Street yesterday to speak to the financial community about

the current prospects for growth and for new investment in Newfoundland and Labrador. That

meeting was rather well attended and rather enthusiastically received because Newfoundland

and Labrador is indeed seen as a prime location for new investment at this time in North

America.

Mr. Speaker, it wasn't a speech on Inco but there were remarks about the

Voisey's Bay deposit. Indeed, if the Leader of the Opposition reads the newspaper

article which he has in his hand, which constitutes his thorough analysis and research

prior to Question Period, he will see that I said in Wall Street that we take a Wall

Street view of the Voisey's Bay deposit. I said that if Inco paid too much for that

deposit then it is not the people of Newfoundland and Labrador who are going to give up

their benefits because Inco paid too much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

PREMIER TOBIN: He has the paper in his hand and he can read that for himself,

unless he wants to misrepresent that as well.

Mr. Speaker, I went on to say that the talks had broken down when the price of nickel

was about $1.87 a pound and when a lot of people - including members opposite - suggested

that the government was bungling the negotiations. Now that the price is $3.70, and Inco

is on the line, yes, we are in the driver's seat and we think we will drive a good

deal or there will be no deal.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: This is a tactic. If you are asking a question that government does

not want to answer, or the minister does not want to answer, or the Premier does not want

to answer, the first thing to do is to attack the person asking the question. Talk about

misrepresentation.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: No member on this side of the House has ever suggested a policy that

would not see full, fair and maximum benefits coming to the people of this Province -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary; I ask him to get to his question.

MR. E. BYRNE: - through Voisey's Bay or any other resource in this Province, I

say to the Premier, and that is a misrepresentation.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. E. BYRNE: I am going to ask you the question again so the people in the gallery

can see for themselves how this Premier responds to direct questions. I will ask you - you

want to talk about reading the paper - it says here, "Mr. Tobin's government has

been equally adamant about getting Inco to commit to building a smelter and

refinery..." Fair enough, so have the members on this side of the House. Then you go

on to say, "I understand that Inco has proposed something along those lines."

Can you inform the House exactly (inaudible) along those lines?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to take his seat.

I think the hon. member has asked a question.

AN HON. MEMBER: Ask it again.

MR. E. BYRNE: What have they proposed along those lines, Premier?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, the member opposite is - I can't figure out why he

is in the mood he is in. The Province is growing at double the national rate; we have kept

our books in line; we have reduced our taxes, the first time in the history of the

Province since Confederation. It is the second major tax decrease after a sales tax

decrease. Our prospects are strong.

Inco is coming back to recognize that there will not be a mine/mill development unless

there is 100 per cent processing of concentrate in this Province. They are putting on the

table a proposal as to how that can be achieved. The Minister of Mines and Energy received

that proposal in general form yesterday. The Province, as I have said in the paper - you

should read the full

article - is going to assess that. We do not know at this stage

whether or not that constitutes the basis of a formal negotiation, but if it does - if we

come to the conclusion it does - we will announce that.

We are not prepared to commit, based on Sunday's discussion, without proper

examination of what has been put on the table, without both our own expertise inside

government and without consulting with experts outside government to fully understand the

proposal, we are not prepared to jump up and down and say yes or no. What we are prepared

to say is what we have always said: that Voisey's Bay will only be developed if it is

in the long-term best interest of the whole Province.

I would say this to the Leader of the Opposition. He talks about people in the gallery

watching and the people of Newfoundland and Labrador listening, and so they should be. The

reality is, on these kinds of developments, we ought to be working for the long-term best

interest of the Province and not angry because the Province happens to be enjoying a bit

of a renaissance economically because we are finally on our feet, because we are finally

standing up, we are finally making progress. Let's celebrate that, not have a temper

tantrum -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the Premier to take his seat.

PREMIER TOBIN: - about the good news of Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. E. BYRNE: A great performance.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There is nobody on this side of the House angry or upset because our Province is doing

well. There is nobody angry or upset because our Province is moving in a direction which

has been long awaited for. The question I am asking you today, Premier, and I will ask it

for the final time: You have led the people of the country, and in particular the people

of the Province, to believe, through an interview with The Globe and Mail , that

Inco has proposed a full smelter refinery complex. All I am asking you today, Sir, is: In

view of the fact that you have indicated that here, could you elaborate -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, with leave of the House, I will read from the paper. May

I have leave?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary and he would need no

preamble.

MR. E. BYRNE: Do I have leave to read this?

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. E. BYRNE: It says: Mr. Tobin's government has been equally adamant about

getting Inco to commit to building a smelter refinery in the Province before agreeing to

formal negotiations. Fair enough.

"I understand that Inco has proposed something along those lines."

The question I am asking is: What have they proposed along those lines? Have they made

a commitment to build a smelter refinery in this Province? That is the issue, Premier.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, we give him permission to quote from The Globe and

Mail and he swallows himself whole, and he is not even smart enough to be embarrassed

by the declaration he has just made.

Mr. Speaker, if the Leader of the Opposition were really interested in seeing the right

thing being done for Newfoundland and Labrador, what he would be saying to the government

opposite is: Government, be careful. Examine whatever has been put on the table with great

care, with great caution. Bring in outside experts, people who have expertise not

contained within government, to examine what has been put on the table. Before you commit,

government, to enter into a formal negotiation, make sure that the requirements of the

Province for technology transfer, for the processing of a product to a finished nickel

value in the Province, has been accomplished.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. the Premier to conclude his answer quickly.

PREMIER TOBIN: Mr. Speaker, that is what the Leader of the Opposition should be

saying, not trying to score political points on his first day back. Three strikes and you

are out, and this is only the first day.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Waterford Valley.

MR. H. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions are for the Minister of Finance. In the comparative analysis you used

earlier today for the multi-year tax reduction program, you say the five point reduction

in basic personal taxes proposed by the PC Party in February would cost $44 million

annually but the seven point reduction you propose to introduce in January of 2000 will

cost only $30 million. How can that be? Mr. Minister, who is getting screwed in this

process?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. DICKS: I am glad the hon. member - we don't often see the hon. member get

nostalgic here in the House.

Mr. Speaker, may I just remind the public - at least his memory is not fading. May I

just remind the House first of all what the Opposition proposed in last February's

election. First of all, they proposed an immediate reduction in personal income tax from

69 per cent to 64 per cent. Now to put it simply, each point of income tax reduction is

worth $8 million. That works out to $40-odd million. In addition to that, they said they

would immediately eliminate the payroll tax - $44 million net to the Province - and they

would also eliminate the 8 per cent of harmonized sales tax on electricity and telephones.

That would have cost $29 million.

In the current fiscal year, that will be a total of $115 million. Next year, if we are

on the same rationale and going through the same thing, it would be $145 million.

The difference between what the Opposition proposed and what we are now doing is that

we are not eliminating the payroll tax, we are not eliminating the 8 per cent HST on

electricity and telephones. What we are doing is, we are reducing the basic tax and we are

applying a surtax. The reason we are doing that, Mr. Speaker, is that is what the point of

comparison is.

I hear people say - I had a business group in to see me the other day and they said to

me: Look, you have to reduce personal income tax in Newfoundland and Labrador because

personal income tax in Newfoundland and Labrador are 69 per cent, and comparing you with

Ontario they are 39 per cent. I had to point out to them that in Ontario they have

surtaxes that kick in at much lower income levels, at 20 per cent and 50 per cent.

What we have done is brought our basic rate down to 62 per cent and we have added in a

surtax that this year will be about 7 per cent on the first $10,000 worth of income. As

our basic rate goes down, our surtaxes are going up. Why are we doing it? We are doing it

because we want to have a valid point of comparison.

It is in our provincial interest, in order to be competitive, that when people look at

us and they look at Ontario, they look at other provinces, they see what a valid

comparison is. Unless we institute surtaxes and bring our basic rate down, we will not

look very good by comparison.

In short answer to the hon. member, our rate is down from 69 per cent to 62 per cent

but surtaxes make up the difference. The reason their decreases amounted to $44 million

was that they had no surtaxes.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Waterford Valley, a supplementary.

MR. H. HODDER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First of all, the statements by the minister are inconsistent with the fact sheet that

he has provided.

I say to the minister: You say the PC plan to reduce personal income taxes to the

national average of 50.4 per cent would, by your calculations done in February, cost $162

million annually when fully implemented, but your plan to reduce the personal income tax

payable to the equivalent of 49 per cent of the federal basic tax will only cost the

Province $85 million annually. Whose taxes, Mr. Minister, are going to increase to make up

that difference?

AN HON. MEMBER: Good question.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. DICKS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will just repeat what I said earlier. The hon. members and the Opposition proposal

did not include surtaxes. What they said was that they would reduce personal income tax

down to 50.4 per cent from 69 per cent. That would cost a total of $162 million if it were

fully implemented.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: (Inaudible).

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. DICKS: I am sorry, but the public can read the Blue Book.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

AN HON. MEMBER: Progressivity (inaudible).

MR. DICKS: Progressivity.

What we have done is, a surtax will ensure that a greater portion of the tax reductions

go to lower income people. At $10,000 worth of income, people at that level will see a

real reduction in their income tax of almost 30 per cent; 29 per cent. At higher income

levels, when it is fully implemented, they will we reduced by 15 per cent.

It is very progressive, but the hon. member's - and his party's - proposition

would have cost the taxpayers of the Province $162 million. It would have been

disproportionately favorable to high income earners because there was no surtax that, of

course, gathers money back from higher income earners.

If the hon. member works through his own figures, the figures will speak for

themselves.

MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Waterford Valley.

MR. H. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister if he would table the

schedule of

surtaxes. The figures that you supplied earlier today show that a family with one income

earner making $40,000 would realize a provincial tax saving of $563 annually in the third

year of the plan. Are these savings for this middle-class family net of the increased

surtaxes they will pay, or is it a combination here?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. DICKS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

That is a point of valid comparison. What you have to do is: when you apply a tax, you

apply the basic rate and then the surtaxes involved. Yes, that is it. What the hon. member

said... For example, in the year 2002, when it is fully implemented, a married individual

with one earner in the family will have $563 less in tax to pay, which is a reduction of

15.9 per cent. A single taxpayer will be $667, or small variations, depending. A married

family with two earners, which is relatively common, will save $1,334 per annum. So, yes.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are to the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

AN HON. MEMBER: Surprise!

MR. SULLIVAN: A little surprise doesn't hurt anybody.

Minister, nursing shortages have been bottlenecking the entire health care system. Back

in May of 1997 you, as minister, new in your portfolio, indicated that by January of 1998

you would resolve problems with cardiac surgery, for example, and there would be fifteen

done per week. Today, there are less than ten being done per week. That means five

life-saving surgeries in cardiac care - cardiac bypass - are not getting done each week;

not because of a lack of cardiac surgeons, not because of a lack of profusionists, not

because the operating space is not there, not because the ICU space is not there, but

simply because of one simple reason: a shortage of nurses dedicated to cardiac care to be

able to staff both the operating room and intensive care.

This shortage, Minister, is not only being felt in cardiac care. It is right across

every area of specialty in which surgeries are required. On a regular basis we have

cancellations in gynecology -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to get to his question.

MR. SULLIVAN: - surgeries cancelled by weeks for orthopaedic doctors.

I want to ask the minister: When are you going to address the underlying causes of the

nursing shortage?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

First, I would like to say - and I think it is important for people to hear - that we,

too, are not pleased with the actual success of the implementation of new cardiovascular

surgeries. In fact, we have had a meeting with the Health Care Corporation and as late as

this afternoon they have put in place a new plan to help address this issue.

Mr. Speaker, I think it is also important to note that there is no one issue that is

singularly the cause for this particular issue. Cardiovascular surgery is one - as you

will note, we had an

article in the paper for information this weekend - that we are very

concerned about. It is one that we are trying to work with all the parties to address. It

is also important to note, for the people of the Province, that other provinces are

experiencing the same issues. In fact, Mr. Speaker, we have in the past been able to send

people out to New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and also to Ottawa. They, too, now are

experiencing difficulties and waiting lists and really are having as much difficulty in

many ways as we are, and it is for a number of reasons. It is not only the nursing

shortages. It also includes issues around cardiac profusionists as well as other issues

around beds.

Mr. Speaker, we are working with the Health Care Corporation. In fact, they have put

out a press release just this afternoon identifying a plan to address this issue in

conjunction with our department, including a second cardiac operating room which is

currently being renovated, the completion of a new cardiovascular ICU to care for eight

patients - currently we are providing for six and that will increase to eight - also, a

new step-down unit and this will be open in April. As well, two employees -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS J.M. AYLWARD: No, Mr. Speaker, it is not a speech. In fact, as the member

opposite said, it is about providing very important information to the people of the

Province.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister to conclude her answer.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: In addition, Mr. Speaker, two employees are currently finishing

off a profusion program in Toronto and they will be back on staff with us in April. In

addition, ongoing efforts are underway to recruit more nurses to work in our

cardiovascular areas.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader, a supplementary.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My question was about delays overall, in all surgeries. There are no surgeries

cancelled over the last few months because of a shortage of ICU space, operating room

space, profusionists, cardiac surgeons, or any of these reasons. The single, sole reason -

I have been informed by people within the corporation and elsewhere, and by patients being

told by their doctors and so on - the reason they are cancelled is because there are no

nurses to work in operating rooms and ICU. The problem with profusionists, they can

accommodate fifteen a week -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to get to his question.

MR. SULLIVAN: Three surgeons can accommodate five a week each, for fifteen. The

step-down rooms have been there since last year. The space is ready.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to get to his question.

MR. SULLIVAN: I want to ask the minister: Your failure to address appropriate

compensation for nurses has caused this problem. How do you expect nurses to stay when

they are paid 25 per cent less here than they are in Nova Scotia, and far less than in

other parts of Canada? I ask the minister: Are you going to address this problem before it

gets worse and before it is completely too late to do anything about it?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Mr. Speaker, I know the member opposite thinks this government is

powerful by the fact that we have increased the economic growth of the Province and we are

leading the country, but we are not responsible for the nursing shortages right across

this country. We, like every other province, are experiencing difficulties in nurses right

now. If this is the case, how do you explain that Ontario is looking for 10,000 nurses?

Nova Scotia is looking for 100 new nurses. We are looking to fill - and, in fact, we have

gone through the process. It is important to note that this year alone the Health Care

Corporation in St. John's alone has gone through 26,200 applications internally to

fill the 125 new positions we noted. That is part of the bureaucracy and the union

contracts that have prevented us from filling the positions as quickly as we could!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Twenty-six thousand, five hundred, Mr. Speaker!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

A final supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Is she now telling us the problem was her, when she was president of the Nurses'

Union, the very contract she put in place? Is that what she is telling us, that she

created the problem?

I can tell you, as Minister of Health, you created a problem of nursing shortages. It

is no consolation - in fact, I would say that because they are paid considerably more in

the rest of this country, our shortage of nurses becomes more compounded here because

elsewhere they are paid more than here in our Province. That is fuel to weaken your

argument, not strengthen it.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. member to get to his question.

MR. SULLIVAN: Yes, I want to ask the minister, in light of statements and a letter

to her on October 14 by the Chair of Health Labrador Corporation, he said that to avoid

the possibility of morale problems, job actions, resignations, government must address

three basic things: that all provincial nurses must have a comprehensive -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a supplementary; I ask him to get to his question quickly.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I ask the minister: Has she responded to the Chair of Health Labrador Corporation on

the three issues addressed in that letter: address provincial pay classification for all

nurses; secondly, the added cost of living in the Labrador region; and a Labrador benefits

package that was being presented to give the Cabinet, that they felt was too weak? Has she

appropriately addressed that in response to the October 14 letter?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I know the member opposite is as concerned as we are about the situation around nursing

shortages in the country. I would call on the member opposite to work with us, to

encourage the union to work with us, as we try to put in place some mechanism to allow us

to hire nurses more quickly.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MS J.M. AYLWARD: It does not matter who put it in place. That is not the issue. I

would like to say - and I think it is important to say - that in order to fill fifty

positions I cannot go - nor can any of the boards in this Province - to recruit one new

nursing graduate from the class of 2000. We cannot do it.

We are asking the members opposite and the Nurses Union, particularly in this case, and

other unions if it should apply, to work with us because each and every position has to be

posted internally.

By virtue of the fact that the Health Care Corporation of St. John's has gone

through 26,200 applications to fill 125 new positions nine months ago and we still have

not hired from outside, I think it is important, it is critical, that we urge the people

who are really concerned about nursing shortages and other shortages to work with us to

try to address this issue -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister to conclude her answer.

MS J.M. AYLWARD: - for the sake of our publicly-funded health care system.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The time for Oral Questions has elapsed.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation.

MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to

introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Amend The Wilderness And Ecological Reserves

Act".

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment and Labour.

MR. LANGDON: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to

introduce a bill entitled, "An Act To Provide for the Conservation, Protection, Wise

Use And Management Of The Water Resources Of The Province" (Bill 31).

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS J.M. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce the following bills:

A bill, "An Act To Amend The Registered Nurses Act".

A bill, "An Act To Revise The Administration Of The Medical Care Insurance".

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Terra Nova.

MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, with your indulgence and approbation, I shall on tomorrow

introduce the following resolution:

WHEREAS Newfoundland Labrador is seeing record tourism numbers in 1999 and these are

expected to increase next year for Viking 1000; and

WHEREAS Newfoundland and Labrador requires an efficient Gulf Ferry Service to provide a

transportation link to the mainland of Canada, which is enshrined in the Terms of Union;

and

WHEREAS the recent provincial government report on the Gulf Ferry Service, "On

Deck and Below" made twenty-four recommendation that have yet to be acted upon by the

federal government;

BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that the provincial government continue to demand the federal

government to adopt the recommendations of the "On Deck and Below" report

immediately so that improvements to this transportation link will bring optimum benefits

for all users - residents, non-residents and commercial operators - the objective of which

is to create and develop a world class transportation system.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Torngat Mountains.

MR. ANDERSEN: Mr. Speaker, I ask to introduce the following Private Member's

Resolution:

WHEREAS Canada Post has recently increased its parcel post rates by up to 27 per cent;

and

WHEREAS these rate increases will have a significant, negative impact on commerce and

the quality of life in rural and northern communities; and

WHEREAS these rate increases run contrary to the federal government's philosophy

of ensuring basic services are available to all Canadians at reasonable cost, regardless

of where they live; and

WHEREAS such a rate increase is particularly objectionable at this time when Canada

Post is recording significant profits;

BE IT THEREFORE RESOLVED that members of this hon. House call upon Canada Post to treat

the people of rural and northern communities no different than those dwelling in other

parts of this country;

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that members of this hon. House call upon the federal minister

responsible for Canada Post to intervene into this matter so as to ensure that Canada Post

treats rural and northern Canadians in a fair and equitable manner.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.

MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An

Act To Amend The Coat Of Arms Act".

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.

MR. GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to

introduce a bill entitled, "An Act Respecting The Operation Of Mines And Mills In The

Province".

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance.

MR. DICKS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An

Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, No.2".

I give further notice that I will on tomorrow move that the House resolve itself into

Committee of the Whole to consider certain resolutions relating to the guaranteeing of

certain loans under the Local Authority Guarantee Act, 1957.

I give another notice that I will on tomorrow move that this House resolve itself into

Committee of the Whole to consider certain resolutions relating to the advancing or

guaranteeing of certain loans made under the Loan and Guarantee Act, 1957.

I give notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled, "An

Act To Remove Anomalies And Errors In The Statute Law".

I give further notice that I will on tomorrow ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

"An Act To Amend The Queen's Council Act".

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista South.

MR. FITZGERALD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to present a 6,000 name petition. The petition reads:

To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative session

convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and Labrador;

WHEREAS the areas of the Province administered by the Peninsula Health Care Corporation

do not have dialysis services available and the people in our area who regularly require

dialysis services often must relocate permanently to the City of St. John's and incur

the financial and emotional cost of being uprooted to get the health care they need in

order live; and

WHEREAS our understanding that working dialysis units are being sent out of this

Province to other countries when the local need is great; and

WHEREAS it is a principle of Canada's medicare system that people should have

reasonable access to basic health care services without suffering discrimination on the

basis of where they live;

WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to approve

the stationing of a dialysis unit in the area serviced by the Peninsula Health Care

Corporation and also provide staff, training and resources to ensure the regular operation

of this dialysis unit;

As in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr. Speaker, this is a 6,000 name petition provided to me by a dialysis patient, I say

to the minister, who has been traveling to St. John's, leaving his home in Bonavista

Bay on a Monday morning, taking his clothes, taking food for himself and his wife for a

whole week, traveling in here to St. John's to stay at the hostel for five days a

week, for the last four years. Here is a gentleman who has had a bout with cancer, has had

six bypasses done, has had a kidney removed, and his plea is that something should be put

in place somewhere within the limits of the Peninsula Health Care Corporation area that

they serve, where he can go and access this medical service that he needs in order to live

today and be able to return to his home and his family at night.

Mr. Speaker, you might say, "Well, why doesn't he sell his house and move to

St. John's?" This patient is on a waiting list for a transplant, and hopefully a

transplant will become available and he will be able to return back to his home again and

once again become a productive person in society.

He has made many attempts to come and see people in the health care department. I must

say, the department and the Department of Social Services have been made accessible to him

but still find it very difficult to get answers to attend to some of his basic needs. Here

is a gentleman who has spent his whole life's savings. His whole life's savings

have been spent in order to access these services.

I spoke with him as early as today, Mr. Speaker, and he told me that even the money

that he had saved for a funeral for himself and his wife he has had to spend in order to

access this service because the department of social services, human resource development,

have insisted that he spend whatever savings he had before they would help him.

He is not saying that he wants this dialysis machine in Bonavista. He is not saying he

wants it put in Clarenville, or he wants it put in Burin. He is saying that he feels, as I

feel, that the need is in our area. The need is there to warrant having at least a

machine, or two machines, whatever it takes, and the experienced people so they might be

able to go and travel to Clarenville, or travel to Bonavista, in order to access this

particular service.

This is not cosmetic service, Mr. Speaker. What he is asking for is a service that will

allow the man to continue to live. Treatment at home is not an option for this individual.

He must come here to St. John's. He must make the journey five days a week and the

journey back to his home again on the weekend. The option of even leaving his clothes or

his food here in a room in a hostel in St. John's is not available to him. If it is,

he has to pay the extra cost of what that room would incur for the two days that he is

gone.

Mr. Speaker, when I started presenting the petition I outlined the difficulties, the

health problems, that this gentleman has experienced. He has gone to human resource

development and he has put in a plea and asked if they would be so kind, instead of giving

him food vouchers to go down to the cafeteria at the hospital, if they would give him the

value of those food vouchers so he might be able to go out and buy food in order to

provide the diet that he needs so that he might be able to help his health situation

along.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, because the department will not provide him with that

funding -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. FITZGERALD: By leave, Mr. Speaker?

MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?

MR. FITZGERALD: Just a minute, Mr. Speaker?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. SPEAKER: By leave.

MR. FITZGERALD: Because the department will not provide him with the funding in

order that he might go out and buy the food that his diet requires, the gentleman is

forced to eat in the cafeteria at the hospital and eat the kind of food that is provided

there on a regular basis. For the most part, I say to members on both sides of the House,

it is not food that is conducive to a particular diet that this gentleman needs.

He is not saying that he needs this money in order to go out and do other things. All

he is asking for is, if the money could be provided for him instead of the meal tickets so

that he might be able to go out and substitute a few paltry dollars that he gets to

provide himself with a diet.

Mr. Speaker, this is a plea that has been coming forward from this side of the House on

a number of occasions. When we hear the good news that the Minister of Finance brought

forward today, of how well the Province is doing and all the wonderful things that are

happening, we all share that joy; but in sharing that joy we have to show some action and

show that if we are now moving ahead and progressing and looking after our finances in

such a positive way, maybe we can reach out and help some of those people who are

disadvantaged.

The gentleman indicated to me that he knows of at least fifteen people from Clarenville

to Bonavista, not including the Burin Peninsula, not including Random Island, now either

traveling to St. John's or doing this activity at home in order that they might be

able to provide themselves with dialysis. Like I said, using a dialysis machine at home

for this individual is not an option. He requires treatment at the hospital, and I ask the

minister if she would take this plea into consideration when she looks at the possibility

of putting some of those machines in other areas from where they are today.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, want to support my colleague in the petition he presented on behalf of 6,000

people who support the prayer of the petition. What they are looking for basically is

fairness in allocating medical equipment in various parts of our Province.

Back in this House, over a couple of years ago, I raised the issue when a young man

from Grand Falls had to come in here to St. John's, away from his family, to undergo

dialysis, and had to uproot, away from his job. It disrupted his whole family life.

Unfortunately that person is not with us today but I am delighted, as a result of that

person's efforts - and I certainly congratulate that individual who kept up the fight

- today there is dialysis service at Grand Falls-Windsor in the Central Newfoundland

Regional Health Care Centre.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. SULLIVAN: The member, too, said she wants to be complimented there. I will

compliment the member on that. If you remember, we asked in Question Period over two years

ago - he came to my office. He was a bit distraught and very concerned. I sat down with

him and CBC did numerous follow-ups after. I provided a number where he could be reached

here in St. John's and at home and they did numerous follow-ups. We did result in

getting facilities in Central Newfoundland.

I said in this House before, and I asked the minister also on this very same topic in

support of that, that we have to look at locating those services that are not highly

expensive services. The minister's response was that it is more than plugging in a

machine. I know it is more than plugging in a machine. I spoke with people in the area who

would be considered very familiar with the process in that specialty, and I know a little

bit about what services are required there. There are numerous people - sixty, seventy

people, even from the Carbonear area out to the Bonavista Peninsula - who are driving in

here to St. John's.

I spoke with a couple, two different individuals from the Northern Peninsula, who left

their families and came in and had to stay in basement apartments here in the City of St.

John's, far removed, the first time in their lives, that an elderly man had to leave

home and come here away from their families and loved ones because they could not get the

services anywhere within their region. It is important that those - and we have moved

forward. It is now in Corner Brook, Grand Fall-Windsor and in the East. I really feel that

we can, within the realms of the budget there, be able to provide those services in a few,

at least a few - not every single hospital can have them, but at least in regional areas

we can have these facilities here to be able to provide these very, very much-needed

services. That is all we are asking.

The costs today to these families, the costs in health care today, are even greater -

their personal expenses - in comparison even to their health costs: the cost of

relocation, of paying their rent, their food, their transportation, their telephone calls

to their families back home, thousands and tens of thousands of dollars are being

accumulated with no hope, three times a week, a permanent change of address, just to fight

and save their lives.

Home dialysis cannot be done with everybody, and there is a certain amount of home

dialysis and more advancements will occur. I am confident in the future there will be more

advancements to enable this dialysis to occur on a basis that can be even more easily

accommodated within the homes, but we do need a service here. It has to be justified to a

certain degree on numbers, but the problem we have here today is that the exorbitant costs

incurred by individuals are bankrupting families.

The gentleman my colleague alluded to - I visited that person - has to leave his home

in a pickup truck, take a small fridge and put it in the back every Sunday night, drive in

here for the week, has to get out of the hostel on a Friday because someone else needs it,

go back and put everything back into his truck, drive back home again, get home for the

weekend again, a few hours drive - I think it is three hours -

AN HON. MEMBER: Three-and-one-half hours.

MR. SULLIVAN: A three-and-a-half hour drive to get back home, and back again every

week of his life - winter and summer, storms, it does not matter - to be able to get

access to dialysis to save his life. Even if he went to Clarenville, he could leave his

home in the morning and get back at a reasonable hour that afternoon and have the service.

I feel a service, and I have stated it here before, should be placed in Clarenville to

serve even the Peninsula's region, the Bonavista and the Burin Peninsula. At least

the Peninsula's health care board should have one of these facilities where people

under that board could be adequately served. They should not have to come to St.

John's.

We are not talking about cardiac surgery, where there is only one select location in

the Province. We are talking about a service that is not highly expensive in terms of

provision of services and can give people the opportunity to be able to live, at least

with the handicap they have - with dialysis and the inconvenience they go through every

single time they go to a hospital for several hours, three times a week - to have some

form of dignity among their family and friends. It is not too much to ask. I have asked

the minister - and I have asked her before in this House last spring - to look at this

situation to see if we can put them in two or three other strategic locations in the

Province to give the people - and there are in excess of 100; I have identified at least

sixty-some already just in the eastern area alone -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. SULLIVAN: - who have to come into St. John's to get this particular

service.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I have a petition to present to the House of Assembly today on the export of our water

resources. The prayer of the petition reads:

We, the residents of Newfoundland and Labrador, wish to petition the House of Assembly,

with copies to the House of Commons, to oppose the bulk export of water from this

Province. Every major resource, such as Churchill Falls, that has been developed in

Newfoundland and Labrador has resulted in the majority of benefits going outside the

Province. It is time that we demand our full and fair share.

With water being one of the few resources remaining where we have the opportunity to

deliver maximum benefit through jobs, spinoff and secondary processing, as well as

royalties, we demand that any water sold must be bottled and processed in this Province.

This petition that I am presenting today is signed by residents of Deer Lake, Howley,

Sop's Arm and so on. We have many other petitions from other areas of the Province to

present on this issue, and it is an important issue.

Now we realize the Premier said that he will not allow the bulk export of water - he is

going to bring legislation into the House during this sitting - but this is an important

issue because this is a resource that is just emerging worldwide. There are some eighty

countries throughout the world that do not have an adequate supply of fresh water to meet

their daily needs. Even in the United States, we see some of the southern-most states that

are running short of water every year and are relying on bottled water or water trucked in

from other states.

Mr. Speaker, the reason this issue has caught the heart of many Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians is because we have seen the majority of our resources exported elsewhere, to

be processed elsewhere.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. T. OSBORNE: Mr. Speaker, we have the Member for Bellevue interrupting here. I

would like to say, while I am touched by his involvement in this issue, I don't think

I am going to take his advice on it, seeing how he seems to always be late.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member is on a petition. I ask him to get on with his petition.

MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This issue is an important issue to the people of this Province. We have the highest

dependency on unemployment insurance in this Province. We have the highest dependency on

food banks here in this Province, yet we are one of the wealthiest provinces in Canada

resource-wise, the poorest Province in Canada fiscally. The reason for that, Mr. Speaker,

is that we have allowed our resources to be exported from this Province to be processed

elsewhere.

The government themselves are fully aware of that. A study conducted by the government

and results released from the Department of Industry, Trade and Technology in 1997 show

that as a result of our resources being exported from this Province - and they took

Ontario as one example - they have shown that there are 25,000 jobs created in Ontario as

a result of our resources being shipped to Ontario for processing there.

Mr. Speaker, the people of this Province feel that it is time to have our resources

processed in this Province. It is time that our resources are processed in this Province

to provide the royalties, the spinoff, the jobs in this Province, for the people in this

Province. We in this Province are the owners of this resource.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. T. OSBORNE: We in this Province are the owners of this resource, and we in this

Province should be the major benefactors of this resource. The people of Grand Le Pierre -

the people of every community in this Province - should have the jobs from this resource,

the jobs from bottling, processing, labeling and packaging. We should never allow our

resources - especially a resource as economical to process as water - to be shipped from

this Province to be processed elsewhere.

Mr. Speaker, I am proud to present this petition today to the House of Assembly and I

hope the members on the other side of the House take note at the large number of people -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. T. OSBORNE: - who have spoken out in favor of our party's position on this

issue.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.

MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am very pleased today to stand and support the petition put forward by my hon.

colleague and to say that I fully support the efforts of the people who have signed the

petition, and indeed the efforts of my hon. colleague here who has been part of the team

that has lead the fight in this Province to make sure that we do not have bulk water

exports.

The hon. Member for St. John's South has been loud and clear on the message which

he has brought forward on behalf of this Party over the past year or so as he sent out the

message of the people of this Province. I say that, at least among ourselves, we converse,

we talk, and we are familiar with what each of the other members here feel. We bring the

concerns of our district to our caucus. If the Member for St. John's South stands and

speaks, he speaks for the voice of us all; much different than the hon. members opposite,

much different.

We have the Premier on one radio station in the Province making a statement and we have

the hon. the Member for Bellevue on the other radio station making a different statement -

totally, totally different from what the Premier was making on one station.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. MANNING: I say that the important issue here -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I want to remind the hon. member that he is now on a petition and his statements should

be related to the material allegation that it contains.

MR. MANNING: Mr. Speaker, my comments precisely have to do with the petition.

I am very concerned that we have a government now which has just presented legislation,

or is in the process of presenting legislation, to talk about bulk water exports, when

only a few months ago they were talking about the possibility of shipping it out of this

Province. But we have people like the Member for St. John's South who went out and

listened to the concerns of the people.

Mr. Speaker, we are getting a new group on this side now, a new group which is going to

be formed, the ‘sandbag' group. We have the member up in the back who was

sandbagged before. We have the Member for Bellevue who got sandbagged recently on this

particular issue here. This is a very important issue for the people of this Province. I

say it is an issue that we should be discussing with each other because it affects every

man, woman and child in this Province.

I was amazed, totally amazed, to hear the hon. Member for Bellevue supposedly putting

across his government's concerns, his Party's concerns as they relate to bulk

water exports in this Province, which were totally different from what the Premier was

saying. The state of confusion that this government put along the Province with regards to

the bulk water exports, I would say, is no different than the state of confusion they are

putting along with many other of their policies.

I ask that over the next few weeks - hopefully over the next few weeks - here in the

House we will get, for once, the Premier and the minister responsible on their feet,

stating exactly what this government plans on doing, exactly the legislation that they are

bringing in, so that everybody in the Province, including the Member for Bellevue, knows

what this government is at.

I can understand if somebody down in Grand Le Pierre or some other small community was

not aware of what the government was at. I can understand if the mayor of some town who

was looking at creating jobs in their town did not know what this government was at. I can

understand that, but to think that the Parliamentary Assistant to the Premier did not now.

Mr. Speaker, how in the name of God would you say that the Mayor of Grand Le Pierre would

know if the Parliamentary Assistant to the Premier didn't know?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. MANNING: How embarrassed can that member be? It is a shame. We have a very big

concern -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Again, I refer the hon. member to Standing Order 92 where it says: "Every Member

offering a petition to the House shall confine himself or herself to the statement of the

parties from whom it comes, the number of signatures attached to it and the material

allegations it contains."

I ask the hon. member to do that.

MR. MANNING: Mr. Speaker, I respectfully say I'm trying my best to bring

forward the concerns that people in this Province have with bulk water exports. The issue

I am trying to bring forward is the state of confusion as it relates to the

government's policy on this issue. That is what has caused the concern out in the

Province, that is what has caused the concern down in Grand Le Pierre, that is what has

caused the concern on the South Coast.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

MR. MANNING: It is a state of confusion that this government has put forward, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to stand for a few moments and clarify some

of the things, or talk to this petition which I do not support. I do not support the

petition. I think the petition was misrepresented as the Opposition members over the last

period of time on this particular issue have passed out little tidbits of information

about this particular project and this particular proposal.

The hon. Member for St. John's South is going to save the water supplies of

Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: The hon. Member for St. John's South is going to save the water

supplies. I would say that the hon. Member for St. John's South has water on the

brain. This government and this party over here represent the Province of Newfoundland and

Labrador. We do not represent inside the overpass, and I suggest that the hon. Member for

St. John's South sometimes should travel beyond the overpass to see how the other

people live.

I did not see him in Fortune Bay during the public consultations that took place on the

Gisborne Lake proposal. I did not see him in Fortune Bay or in the communities of Fortune

Bay talking with the people who were affected. What we were talking about here was the

bulk shipment of water. We are also talking about a bottling plant. We are also talking

about a plant to make the bottles themselves. We are talking about 150 jobs in Fortune Bay

in my district and I was elected to this House of Assembly to represent the views of my

constituent. I have been elected here four times and I plan to come back. I represent the

view of my constituents.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: We often heard the expression by those member on that side saying we

are all a bunch of trained seals over here. The trained seals are not over here, they are

over there.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BARRETT: I can assure you there are no trained seals here.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. BARRETT: As long as I am elected to this House of Assembly, I will represent

the views of my constituents.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Member for Bellevue.

MR. BARRETT: We all realize that Canada has 20 per cent of the available water

resource in this world. My stand will be proven right in the next ten or fifteen years. We

will have no other alternative but to ship bulk water out of this Province. We will have

no other choice but to ship bulk water out of this Province, or any other province in

Canada for that matter.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. BARRETT: I do not care whose view it is. Look, I say to the hon. Member for

Waterford Valley, whose view is it? It is my view. I was elected by the people of the

District of Bellevue to present their views. One-third of my district is in favor of

Gisborne Lake and two-thirds is against, but I represent the one-third. We talk about

representing the minority. I also represent the minority. I'm not like the Member for

Waterford Valley. I represent the constituents who put me here. I did not see the hon.

members of the Opposition when there was a public consultation on the environmental

assessment. They never showed their nose in Fortune Bay. They never showed their face in

Fortune Bay. As to the critic on the environment, everybody in Grand Le Pierre were

wondering where the Member for St. John's South was. He was lost in the smokestacks

in St. John's. They could not find him. They said: Where is the Member for St.

John's South? We do not see him here. He is against this particular proposal.

It was your opportunity as part of the environmental assessment to have your say. No

opposition members.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. BARRETT: I am not against the government. All the good things that are

happening with this government, to be against this government? What I was doing was

representing the views of my constituents and the people who elected me to represent their

views.

The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. member's time is up.

Orders of the Day

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, before I call Second Reading of Order 2 of Bill 1, I had a

conversation with the Opposition House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. TULK: Boy, you are an awful feisty bunch over there again today. Got a job to

keep them down.

I understand -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. TULK: I would ask you fellows to be quiet, if you don't mind.

We have given notice of motion on a number of bills. I understand that we do have to

have leave of the House in order to move to the next stage and the Opposition House Leader

has given me the courtesy to do that so that we can pass out the bills. Some of them are

not printed, but they are being printed this evening and will be delivered to the offices

tomorrow morning, so that you can take Wednesday and get into the minute detail of this

heavy legislation.

Mr. Speaker, I am going to call them all together, if you do not mind. I would like to

ask for first reading on all the bills that we gave notice of motion on today. Of course,

the finance bills are some that have to go through committee and therefore you do not do

first reading. Also, I would like to call, if I could, Mr. Speaker, Motion 1 on the Order

Paper as well, Bill 9, which is the Securities Act.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Will the Chair take them individually or will we take them all together?

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Tourism, Culture and Recreation to introduce a bill,

"An Act To Amend The Wilderness And The Ecological Reserve Act," carried. (Bill

30)

On motion, Bill 30 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Environment and Labour to introduce a bill, "An

Act To Provide For The Conservation, Protection, Wise Use And Management Of The Water

Resource Of The Province," carried. (Bill 31)

On motion, Bill 31 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

Motion, the Minister of Health and Community Services to introduce a bill, "An Act

To Revise The Administration Of Medical Care Insurance," carried. (Bill 26)

On motion, Bill 26 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services to introduce a bill,

"An Act To Amend The Registered Nurses Act", carried. (Bill 27)

On motion, Bill 27 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy to introduce a bill, "An Act

Respecting The Operation Of Mines And Mills In The Province", carried. (Bill 28)

On motion, Bill 28 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs to introduce a bill,

"An Act To Amend The Coat Of Arms Act", carried. (Bill 29)

On motion, Bill 29 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Finance to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The

Income Tax Act, No. 2", carried. (Bill 32)

On motion, Bill 32 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice to introduce a bill, "An Act To Remove

Anomalies And Errors In The Statute Law", carried. (Bill 24)

On motion, Bill 24 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The

Queen's Council Act", carried. (Bill 25)

On motion, Bill 25 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services and Lands to introduce a bill,

"An Act To Amend The Securities Act", carried. (Bill 9)

On motion, Bill 9 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER: Motion 1. Just motion 1?

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, I didn't hear whether we did first reading on the MCP

act? We did first reading on that, too?

MR. SPEAKER: Pardon me? I didn't get what the hon. member was saying. Which

bill was that?

MR. TULK: The MCP act. I don't know what the official title is.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. TULK: We did it? Okay.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, before I call Orders of the Day, I would like to inform hon.

members that I think we have two or three resolutions on the Order Paper, but the

resolution we are going to call tomorrow is the one by the Member for Terra Nova on the

Gulf Ferry Service.

I call Order 2, "An Act To Revise The Law Respecting Apprenticeship And

Occupational Certification". (Bill 1)

Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Revise The Law Respecting

Apprenticeship And Occupational Certification". (Bill 1)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, the Apprenticeship Act was first revised in 1990, and since

that time we have seen significant changes occur in this Province, particularly within the

field of apprenticeship and certification.

If we look at what is happening in the economy today, Mr. Speaker, you can certainly

see the need for major changes in this area. We know of what is happening on the oil and

gas sector, that clearly we have to make sure that all of our regulations are there in a

way that we can make sure, when people apply for accreditation, that they get the best

training possible.

A review of the apprenticeship and training was conducted in 1995 to determine the

relevance in light of today's changing work. Stakeholders, as well as the provincial

trades advisory committees throughout the Province, were consulted on a wide range of

issues affecting the quality and efficiency of apprenticeship training.

The recommendations arising out of those consultations are documented in a report that

was put together by Mervin Andrews, and that report was Apprenticeship Training: Now and

the Future. The authority to implement the recommendations is provided for in the revised

act.

There are two significant changes that we have to look at. First, the removal of all

regulations governing apprenticeship training were taken out under regulatory reform and

giving authority to the Provincial Apprenticeship Board to develop policies to achieve the

same results. These policies can be amended to reflect changes in the training environment

without having to require a change in the legislation.

Clearly, Mr. Speaker, when you look at what is happening in our environment in terms of

the changes in the typical type of jobs that we have been doing in the past and the

changes that we foresee for the future, it is going to be important to have that

flexibility to work without having to come back to the Legislature all the time to upgrade

or improve on the regulations.

Since a new act supports the establishment of an accreditation process with the

Provincial Apprenticeship Board holding the accreditation and certification of authority,

as an accreditation and certification authority, the board is responsible for the

accreditation of all provincial apprenticeship training programs offered by private and

public training institutions. Accredited apprenticeship programs ensure that the learner,

industry, employers and the public that the programs meet or exceed educational industry

standards established for those occupations.

The accreditation process provides an auditing mechanism for provincial apprenticeship

training programs independent of the education system. Accreditation is a volunteer

process and any training institutions wishing to offer apprenticeship training in

Newfoundland and Labrador have the opportunity to have their apprenticeship programs

accredited by the Provincial Apprenticeship Board.

Apprentices who exit from accredited programs will get full recognition and automatic

credit transfer toward their apprenticeship program by the board. Apprentices who exit

from non- accredited programs will be evaluated on an individual basis, but it is on a

volunteer basis in terms of whether or not they seek accreditation.

The accreditation process is an industry driven process with members of the

accreditation team coming from the business and industry sector volunteering their

professional services to the apprenticeship board. To date, several programs have been

fully accredited by the board and many others at various stages of accreditation.

The apprenticeship system must continue to be dynamic and responsive to the needs of

the labour market. The new act provides the authority for the Provincial Apprenticeship

Board to set the standards for training and monitoring the institutions and the industrial

partners to ensure that they are being met.

New plans for training of apprenticeships and better documentation of competencies

learned are just two of the initiatives taken by the board over the past several years to

ensure a quality and well-trained work force for the future.

The idea here is to always be up-to-date with our regulations to try and make sure that

as the focus on work changes, as we move from one set of rules to another, as we move from

different employment opportunities to others, as we look at new employment opportunities

that come into this Province, apart from the traditional opportunities, that we do our

best to keep up with those and to ensure that the training that is required for those are

offered, but it is competent training and it is something that we can be proud of and can

ensure that those who have access to it and take advantage of it will, at the end of the

day, be fully competent to take advantage of those employment opportunities.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HEDDERSON: I join with the minister in commenting that this bill to revise the

apprenticeship and occupational certification is indeed a very positive step and one that,

if you go back to 1995, there was a fair bit of consultation throughout the Province with

the stakeholders, enough that a report done up certainly clearly outlined the direction

that should be taken into the next century.

Again the concern, perhaps, was that it has taken now, up until 1999, to get it

implemented, which is a little bit worrisome. It has been, I understand, on the floor, I

suppose, for the last year or so waiting to be passed.

With regard to the apprenticeship, again, we have a long history of apprenticeship in

industry in general, and for this bill to continue this tradition is very important. What

is particularly important is that it takes into account the job market out there, industry

itself, and it is setting the standard of certification that is necessary.

Again, as to the implementation of the directions that are contained in this bill, the

only concern that I would have is that they be implemented and they be implemented with

the proper resources. It is fine to put a bill forward but it is absolutely imperative

that the department, in this case the Department of Education, make sure that in its

budget, or whatever, that what is said in the bill is indeed acted upon and that the

resources are there to make sure that the intent of the bill is indeed carried out.

I join with the minister in moving this forward and moving it forward indeed in a very

positive light.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Smith): If the Minister of Education speaks now she will close the

debate

The hon. the Minister of Education.

MS FOOTE: Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to move second reading of this particular

act.

On motion, a bill, "An Act To Revise The Law Respecting Apprenticeship And

Occupational Certification," read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of

the Whole House on tomorrow. (Bill 1).

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.

MR. TULK: Mr. Speaker, Orders of the Day, Order 1, Address in Reply.

MR. SPEAKER: Order 1, the Address in Reply, commonly known as the Speech from the

Throne.

The hon. the Member for...

MR. TULK: Humber East.

MR. SPEAKER: Humber East.

Thank you, Government House Leader.

MR. MERCER: Mr. Speaker, we are going to have to get you a new list.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise today to have a few words to say on the Speech from the Thorne which was

delivered in the spring. I do so with some trepidation because I am only going to talk

about good, positive, solid things that have been happening in our Province over the last

number of months. I know that the bunch on the other side, the members of the Opposition,

do not like to hear good news. As a matter of fact - no, I will not say that, I will save

that for another time.

AN HON. MEMBER: Say what?

MR. MERCER: No, I will not say that. Mr. Speaker may not like what I had in mind.

I just want to say a few words today, particularly in relation to an

article which was

in the recent Globe and Mail - I'm sure no one on the other side has read this

yet but I think they do need to be reminded - which said: The Rock's on a roll. The Globe

and Mail has said that based upon a number of indicators the Province of Newfoundland

and Labrador has the hottest economy in the country.

I just wanted to say a few words about that because I know some members on the other

side have not read this article. I will make reference to those in a little while. It

seems that this particular review which was done by the Globe and Mail is a bi-annual

affair.

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).

MR. MERCER: Great friends of Newfoundland. They write nothing but positive things

in The Globe and Mail. We can all take heart. When they write this kind of

article

we know that they are not saying anything -

AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) there is only one crowd left, now, to get on side.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MR. MERCER: Who might that be?

AN HON. MEMBER: Over there.

MR. MERCER: They will never be on side.

They look at some seven indicators in the national economy and they do an evaluation of

each province and come up with a bi-annual review of how each province is performing. It

is quite interesting that in the October review The Globe and Mail reported - and

this is probably news to some members, at least to one member of the Opposition I am sure

it is news - that in five of these seven categories Newfoundland ranked number one and in

the other two categories Newfoundland ranked third and second, respectively.

Now just to take a look at some of these indicators, I think it is worthwhile that we

would take a look at our position relative to some of the other provinces in Canada. We

are quite used to seeing the great Province of Ontario being always number one in whatever

indicator you want to take. This time around the Province of Ontario, led by the grand PC

government of Mike Harris, dropped a grand total of ten points and dropped out of first

place entirely. Newfoundland, which has been perennially around the middle, towards the

bottom, rose by an astounding eighteen points to come in at number one. In fact, we scored

some sixty-seven points out of a grand total of eighty.

In second and third place - just to refresh the memory of some members opposite - were

the neighboring provinces of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, both, I might add, led by Tory

governments. So as we can see, in the first four positions Newfoundland came in number one

and the other three Tory provinces came in second, third and fourth. I don't know if

there is any connection between the party affiliations there, but if the members of the

other side think this is what Newfoundland is destined for, a Tory government, I

don't think these types of indicators would indicate that that is the way we should

be looking.

Just taking a look at some of these categories, for argument's sake in the area of

employment, in the last six months The Globe and Mail reports that we grew at the

rate of 2.9 per cent, faster than anywhere else in the country. We were told today by the

Minister of Finance when he was delivering his good news on income tax reduction that in

Newfoundland, over the last twelve months, there has been some 10,500 more people employed

than there was last year, an increase of some 5.3 per cent. This is tremendous news in

terms of the employment. We now have the largest number of Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians that work in our Province than at any time before in our history. So that is

very good news and clearly we led the country in terms of employment growth.

In terms of the wholesale trade, The Globe and Mail reported that we were up

some 13.7 per cent, leading the country. The next highest province was the Province of

Nova Scotia at around 9.9 per cent. In the area of manufacture shipments, largely fueled

by a buoyant pulp and paper industry, by a saw milling industry and by the fishery of

today, the fishery of crab and shrimp, we were reporting manufacturing shipments up a

staggering 15.1 per cent. The province closest to Newfoundland in that particular category

was Nova Scotia at 5.1 per cent.

AN HON. MEMBER: Where did you get those figures?

MR. MERCER: Out of your favorite newspaper, The Globe and Mail .

AN HON. MEMBER: Where do you get all your questions?

MR. MERCER: The Globe and Mail . Same answer.

Mr. Speaker, these are a couple of the categories. Another one here, for

argument's sake, is capital spending. I will get into that and make some concrete

examples in a few minutes. There was a 29.2 per cent increase in the last six months, four

times the national average. Clearly, something is happening to the Newfoundland economy.

Clearly, as The Globe and Mail has said in this particular article, we are leaving

every other province in our dust.

Now to the areas which we came second and third in. We came in number two in housing,

but if you look at the record there you will find that we came in at a staggering 32.1 per

cent increase in housing starts in the Province in the second six months of this fiscal

year.

In respect to retail trade, which has been spoken of before, they found that we were up

4.6 per cent. As the Minister of Finance just recently told us in his statement dealing

with the tax reduction, for the first eight months of the year that figure can be operated

to something in the order of 6.8 per cent.

In addition to those, quite apart from these indicators, there is another indicator

which is traditionally used as an indication that the economy is moving, it is buoyant,

people are out spending, and that is dealing with the sale of motor vehicles. Again, as

the Minister of Finance just alluded to in his speech, in the Province of Newfoundland we

are up some 13.1 per cent in the purchase of new vehicles in this Province. These are all

very good numbers and it augurs very well for the economy of Newfoundland and where we are

heading.

Now, during the period when the Minister was making his comments dealing with the

income tax reduction the members on the other side deemed not to listen. They laughed at

one another, they winked, they nodded, but they were not really listening. I suspect that

is a large part of their problem. They are not listening to what is happening, they are

not seeing what is happening out there in the economy, and they continue to come in here

day after day with every dark story that they can find. Purveyors of doom and gloom. That

is all we hear from them, day in, day out.

At the same time, we have the national banks saying - the TD Bank, for argument's

sake, continues to say that we will lead the country in GDP growth which I am sure

everyone on the other side would indicate is a reasonable measure. It is not the absolute

measure, but it is a good measure of growth. All these institutions are saying that

Newfoundland's economy is on fire, we are moving in the right direction. We are not

like a former member of the staff of the former government, Premier Peckford I believe his

name was. I do not recall his advisor, but he was so afraid that by the infusion of

capital into the Province by the development of the offshore, that we would overheat the

economy. He was afraid of that. He did everything in his power to dissuade the government

of the day from getting involved with signing an offshore deal. He was afraid the economy

was going to overheat, afraid that the economy was going to catch on fire and that some

people were going to actually get a job and go to work.

That is the record and the legacy of the members opposite. That is the legacy of the

party opposite. They did not want to see the economy become overheated. Members on this

side, or at least this member, would like to see some heat in the economy; would like to

see some more investment, would like to see some more jobs being created. I would like to

see it so hot that every volunteer fire department in this Province would have to be

called out to quench the flames. Yes, we are proud of the way our economy is moving. We

think this is the way it has to be.

I said at the beginning that perhaps all members of the Opposition had not read this

article. I am sure that must have picked up a smattering of information along the way, but

I think it was a day, maybe two days, after The Globe and Mail had made its report

that I tuned into the open line show. I believe it was the morning show with Bill Rowe. It

is not a show that I listen to a lot because there is a lot of negativity there, and a lot

of the members from the Opposition call in and they bellyache about this and that. So it

is not a show that I listen a lot to, but this morning I was glad I listened.

Because I believe the hon. Member for St. John's West called in to have a few

comments about this particular

article in The Globe and Mail , and how she really

could not understand how the Premier could go around -

AN HON. MEMBER: What member was that?

MR. MERCER: The Member for St. John's West. Not east, north or south, but the

Member for St. John's West. The Member for St. John's West expressed to Bill

that perhaps the Premier was being a little bit too rosy in painting the picture of the

economic growth in the Province. Perhaps The Globe and Mail had it all out of

context. The interesting thing, Mr. Speaker, was that as Mr. Rowe asked her a couple of

questions she admitted she had not read the article. She had not read the article, so this

kind of perplexed the moderator of the open