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May 7,

SOCIAL SERVICES COMMITTEE

Pursuant to Standing Order 68, Dale Kirby, MHA for St. John's North,

substitutes for Gerry Rogers, MHA for St. John's Centre, for a portion of the

meeting.

The Committee met at 9:00 a.m. in the Assembly Chamber.

CHAIR (Littlejohn): Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Good morning,

Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: Good morning.

CHAIR: Pinch-hitting for the pinch-hitter, I think.

MS SULLIVAN: (Inaudible).

CHAIR: I would like to welcome everybody from Child, Youth and Family

Services and Women's Policy. Good morning to all our Committee members and

staffers.

Welcome to the last session after seven sessions of the Social Services

Committee, I hope. It has been a trying two weeks trying to get it all in, but

we have succeeded and we are here.

I want to thank you, Minister Sullivan, for being here this morning, in

particular, as I said, pinch-hitting for the pinch-hitter. I am sure you are

more than capable of it.

As we do in all situations, Minister, I am going to ask you and your staff to

introduce yourselves, just so we get it for Hansard. I remind everybody that

prior to speaking, wait for your red light to come on and please state your

name. That will help immensely.

With the Committee's indulgence, we will start with Women's Policy this

morning, 2.1.01. We will do Women's Policy first and then we will move into

Child, Youth and Family Services. Without any further ado, Minister, if you want

to lead off and we will go from there.

MS SULLIVAN: Good morning. I am Susan Sullivan, minister of something.

MS TRICKETT: Wanda Trickett, Departmental Controller for Executive

Council.

MS COCHRANE: I am Rachelle Cochrane. I am DM for Women's Policy Office.

MS GULLAGE: Cheryl Gullage, Program, Policy, and Communications Analyst

with WPO.

MS HUNT: Michelle Hunt, Director of Communications, CYFS and WPO.

MS O'BRIEN: Donna O'Brien, ADM for Programs and Policy, CYFS.

MS CULL: Barbara Cull, ADM, Service Operations with Child, Youth and

Family Services.

MR. MOORES: Wayne Moores, Manager of Budgeting for CYFS.

MS MAIDMENT: Donna Maidment, Executive Assistant, CYFS.

MR. GRANDY: Paul Grandy, Departmental Controller, Department of Child,

Youth and Family Services.

MS COMPANION: Lori Anne Companion, Child, Youth and Family Services,

Deputy Minister.

MS MOORE: Julie Moore, ADM, Corporate Services, Child, Youth and Family

Services.

CHAIR: I am Glenn Littlejohn, MHA for Port de Grave, and the Chair of the

Social Services Committee.

MR. A. PARSONS: Andrew Parsons, MHA, Burgeo La Poile.

MS BUCKLE: Joy Buckle, Researcher.

MS ROGERS: Gerry Rogers, MHA, St. John's Centre.

MS WILLIAMS: Susan Williams, Researcher.

MR. CORNECT: Good morning, Minister, and staff. Welcome to Social

Services Committee Estimates meeting this morning. Tony Cornect, MHA for the

great and cultural District of Port au Port.

MR. CRUMMELL: Dan Crummell, MHA, St. John's West.

MR. LITTLE: Good morning. I am Glen Little, MHA for the beautiful

District of Bonavista South.

MR. POLLARD: Kevin Pollard, MHA, Baie Verte Springdale.

CHAIR: With that, Minister, you have fifteen minutes for opening remarks

if you so choose.

CLERK (Ms Hammond): (Inaudible).

CHAIR: Oh, I have to call the subhead first. Thank you, Kimberley.

We will call the first subhead, please.

CLERK: Subhead 2.7.01.

CHAIR: Subhead 2.7.01.

Minister, if you please.

MS SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am certainly happy to be here this morning to discuss the Budget proposals

for Women's Policy and, of course, the Provincial Advisory Council on the Status

of Women. It is some work I was involved with a long time ago, actually. Well,

it seems like a long time ago; a few years back, anyways. It was very exciting

work then and, according to the briefings we did last night, it continues to be

very exciting work that is happening in Women's Policy.

I am particularly happy that some of what we will be looking at this morning

has to do with the eight women's centres that are located across the Province as

well and some of the fabulous work that I know on the front lines. From the work

I do with my own women's centre at home, we are still seeing some very exciting

work that is happening there.

We know this government has certainly committed to social and economic

enhancement and advancement of all women, and of course other vulnerable

populations as well. I believe we have remained steadfast in our view that

participation by women in all occupations is critical to the future of the

workforce of this Province. We will see some of that evidenced by some of what

is found here in the Estimates this morning.

I want to move through some of the different headings but I think before we

do that, I think it is incumbent upon us, as well, to point out that in Budget

2013 women continue to have access to services and programs related to their

social and economic well-being through commitment and support to a number of

women's organizations. I refer particularly to the Multicultural Women's

Organization of Newfoundland and Labrador, to the ten violence prevention

regional co-ordinating committees against violence. I have seen some phenomenal

work that has resulted from some of those particular committees.

NAWN, we refer to it as, the Newfoundland Aboriginal Women's Network,

Transition House Association of Newfoundland and Labrador, and the Newfoundland

and Labrador Sexual Crisis and Prevention Centre. Again, we are going to see,

through these Estimates, some of the allocations that are made to those groups.

I can tell you that since 2004 we have more than doubled the funding for the

Status of Women Councils in Newfoundland and Labrador. This year we are happy to

report that the funding for the eight women's centres has been maintained. They

will continue to receive that $127,625 annually, which is up from $55,000 when

we first looked at this in 2004.

So without going into too many of the other sort of generic details, what I

will do is simply turn it over. We will have opportunity to talk about the VPI

II, the next six-year initiative, and things that are there as we move through

the different headings.

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister.

Andrew.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister.

I picked up this, I guess we will say department, upon the resignation of the

former Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair. I am very happy to be here and

very happy that we have good researchers and staff to guide me.

I am going to start off just going through the lines here. Line 01, Salaries,

it is down to $741,200 for Estimates. How many positions was this?

MS SULLIVAN: It reflects a savings of $162,600. In terms of exactly how

that works itself through, we are looking at about $51,000, $52,000 permanent

savings related to the removal of a vacant position. It was a vacant permanent

Administrative Officer position there, and that was through attrition. There is

a savings of $54,500 which is a temporary savings related to the six months

delayed recruitment of two positions; one was a Policy Analyst, and the second

was a Training Officer. Both have now been hired and, in fact, they are here

with us. There is a $65,000 permanent savings related to the decision to not

hire a vacant temporary Social Marketing Specialist.

MR. A. PARSONS: The vacant permanent administrative position that was

cut, where was that located?

MS SULLIVAN: You have to wait for your light.

CHAIR: Rachelle.

MS COCHRANE: I am sorry. It was in the St. John's office.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay, thank you.

Under Grants and Subsidies, line 10, can you just give me a background or

explanation on how this money is distributed?

MS SULLIVAN: The funding is provided here for the ten regional

anti-violence groups, for the eight women's centres, the Transition House

Association, the Sexual Assault Crisis and Prevention Centre, the violence

prevention for Aboriginal women, supporting social infrastructure for Aboriginal

women in Central and Western Newfoundland, Multicultural Women's Organization of

Newfoundland and Labrador. That was through the Immigration Strategy.

MR. A. PARSONS: Would it be possible for us to get a list of all the

groups that received money and how much money?

MS SULLIVAN: Sure.

MR. A. PARSONS: I know this is a small amount but I am just curious,

under Revenue Provincial last year it was $9,700. Where did the revenue come

from?

CHAIR: Rachelle.

MS COCHRANE: I am going to have to turn this over to Wanda. If you could,

Wanda?

CHAIR: Wanda.

MS TRICKETT: This revenue is in relation to a recovery from the

Newfoundland Aboriginal Women's Network for unexpected grant funds that was

advanced in 2011-2012 for the Aboriginal Women and Men; Building a Bridge to

Wellness project.

MR. A. PARSONS: Just moving on to some more general questions, the

Violence Prevention Initiative's action plan for 2006-2012 was just completed.

Is this report being published?

CHAIR: Rachelle.

MS COCHRANE: We have just concluded the evaluation of the VPI Phase I and

we are in the process of preparing a submission to Cabinet. Once we get the

submission through our organization, then we will make a decision on release of

the document.

MR. A. PARSONS: What kind of timeline is on that?

MS COCHRANE: We are anticipating having this done within the next several

months, so certainly within 2013.

MR. A. PARSONS: Whether this gets released or not is still subject to a

Cabinet decision?

MS COCHRANE: Yes, certainly it is a decision of Cabinet. We have met with

the ministers several times to do the debriefing; it is a process that we have

to go through. We will be will through that process very shortly.

MR. A. PARSONS: While we are on that, were there measures in this

evaluation to determine whether the Violence Prevention Initiative is actually

reducing the incidents of violence?

CHAIR: Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: With any of our initiatives there is always an evaluation

that is part of the framework that we put in place in the first place, so there

has been ongoing evaluation.

MR. A. PARSONS: Regional Co-ordinating Committees, RCCs: How many of

these are there?

MS SULLIVAN: Ten.

MR. A. PARSONS: Ten.

How much do they receive?

MS SULLIVAN: They receive $80,000 each.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

Where are they located? What are the regions?

MS SULLIVAN: We have the Burin Peninsula; the Central West Committee

Against Violence, which is Avalon East; Communities Against Violence, Eastern

Region; Northern Committee Against Violence; the Roads to End Violence, which I

believe is on the Avalon; Southwestern Coalition to End Violence, which is the

Southwestern portion of the Island; Violence Prevention Labrador; and then the

Western Regional Coalition to End Violence. I am not sure exactly where that is

located.

OFFICIAL: Lab City, I think

MS SULLIVAN: Lab City, we think.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

Are these being looked at for reorganization following this evaluation?

CHAIR: Rachelle.

MS COCHRANE: These groups were consulted as part of the evaluation. Round

tables were held with these ten groups, as well as five other organizations

throughout the Province and the advice that those committees have given us will

be brought forward to Cabinet when the minister's submission is concluded.

MR. A. PARSONS: Transition houses: How much are they receiving this year?

MS SULLIVAN: That one is $105,000.

MR. A. PARSONS: The Status of Women Councils, they fall under 2.7.01?

MS SULLIVAN: Yes, and now I have the $127,625 allocations.

MR. A. PARSONS: Did you say there were eight?

MS SULLIVAN: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

I guess going back for a second, under Professional Services, what is covered

under Professional Services?

CHAIR: Is that 2.7.01.05, Andrew, just for clarification?

MR. A. PARSONS: Yes.

CHAIR: It is 2.7.01.05, Professional Services.

MS SULLIVAN: Are you looking at the Estimates portion of that, or do you

just want to know generically what is covered under Professional Services? We

are talking about the hiring of consultants to complete research projects

involving the evaluation in the surveys as well as policy, programs, and

training development.

MR. A. PARSONS: I am just wondering now, and this is a general question,

you mentioned in your

preamble, Minister, one of the big goals of the Women's

Policy Office comes to the labour market as well. I hear a lot about the

non-traditional sectors and money going to the women's councils. Was there any

consultation? The Gateway Status of Women out in Port aux Basques actually lost

their person who was tasked with Employment Assistance Services. That was cut

from them. I am wondering if there was any consultation done because that seems

to be completely against what the intention of the government is.

MS SULLIVAN: Again, I do not want to get very far into policy because, as

you know, this is not my area; this is not my department. What I can tell you

about what you are asking is that appears to be more of an AES department. That

is more involved with Advanced Education and Skills.

MR. A. PARSONS: I just put it out because I liked your

preamble and you

talked about what Women's Policy is trying to do. That would seem to have a link

to what the Status of Women Council are doing, who are taking great advantage of

EAS. I did not know if there was a consultative process put in place. One of the

goals I putting women in jobs, especially in the non-traditional sector, and

then we cut this person out. It seemed to be counterproductive.

MS SULLIVAN: Again, you are asking me to go and take a look at another

department, which I really have not had a briefing on. What I can tell you about

the Gateway Status of Women Council is that we have not cut their funding

whatsoever. They are still receiving the $127,625.

MR. A. PARSONS: Those are my questions for right now. Thank you, Mr.

Chair.

CHAIR: Thank you.

Gerry.

MS ROGERS: Thank you very much.

I want to say thank you very much for all the work you do, CYFS. I know you

are dealing with some of the most difficult and complex situations that we need

to deal with as a public service. I want to thank you for your dedication and

your commitment, your innovation and creativity. I know it can be very, very

tough. I know it also can be very rewarding, but it is very complex. For Women's

Policy as well, thank you so much for your dedication to this area. Welcome

aboard, for those of you who are new.

I am not the critic for Child, Youth and Family Services, so I am only here

for Women's Policy. Then my colleague Dale Kirby will be replacing me after we

are finished with Women's Policy. Thank you for your time this morning as well.

I just have a few line items I would like to get to before I have some

questions. If we could go back to 01, Salaries, the removal of the vacant

administrative position, I think, Minister, you said that there was a $52,000

reduction there for the removal of a vacant position for the administration

position. How long was that vacant?

CHAIR: Rachelle.

MS COCHRANE: It has been vacant for a while now. The duties assigned to

that position are being picked up by other staff within the office. We have

other admin positions; we are not short on our staffing model. I have myself a

permanent admin assistant. We have a lady on the front desk who is also

available and helps us with our admin duties. We also have a full-time,

permanent Admin Officer who is responsible for all our contracts.

MS ROGERS: Okay, thank you very much.

There was a delay in filling a training and communications position, was

there? There was a $54,000 shortfall?

CHAIR: Rachelle.

MS COCHRANE: Yes, there was a six-month delay in filling two positions.

We, like most departments these days, struggled with recruitment and the number

of applications we had. Those positions are now filled. We were six months

getting the positions filled and now we are fully staffed.

MS ROGERS: There were two separate positions, was it? One for training

MS COCHRANE: Yes.

MS ROGERS: What was that position, training?

MS COCHRANE: We have a lady with us now; she is a GS-40. She is a

Training Officer who does our violence prevention training.

MS ROGERS: Who does she train? That is what I am wondering.

MS COCHRANE: Oh, she is out into the communities.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

MS COCHRANE: She also helps provide some training to the education

system. We do one-day and two-day sessions out into the community throughout the

Province in our schools, and also for our NGOs.

MS ROGERS: Okay, great. Thank you very much.

Both of those positions now are filled?

MS COCHRANE: Yes.

MS ROGERS: Great. The marketing position that you are not filling; what

was the role of that position?

CHAIR: Rachelle.

MS COCHRANE: As you know in our office we have quite a number of

publications, fact sheets, information circulars we send out to again NGOs and

schools right throughout the Province. That position was going to be a dedicated

resource to help us with the design of that.

With technology as we have now on some of the software we are using and also

the support from other departments, we have not identified the need for that

position any longer. We still have been able to do our publications without the

need for this Social Marketing Specialist.

MS ROGERS: Have there been as many publications and has the reach been as

far?

MS SULLIVAN: It is farther.

MS COCHRANE: Farther, absolutely.

Technology has helped us quite a bit. Actually, this coming year when I was

briefing the minister last night we are also looking at other ways. Some of

our computers now, we are able to link so much faster and get information out so

much quicker than we were ten years ago. We do not use the mail any more, so the

actual hands-on, physical volume of work can be actually increased through the

use of technology. We are taking advantage of that. We are going to try that

again in the new year to try to get more face-to-face contact using our

computers and things like that.

MS ROGERS: Was that position also tasked with writing materials, creating

materials?

MS COCHRANE: Yes, that position would have done some of those resources,

but we also now have a Manager for Social and Economic Policy, two positions,

two new permanent positions, and those positions help with that as well.

Collectively, we use the communications branch, we use existing staff who

have expertise in the individual areas that we are focusing on and they bring

that expertise, with our communications folks, and we are able to produce

materials without this dedicated resource.

MS ROGERS: Those two positions that you said are new, the permanent

positions, are they new positions or just newly filled?

MS COCHRANE: No, they were created about two years ago as new permanent

positions, and as we have matured with those positions they are able to provide

their professional expertise in helping us with our marketing materials.

MS ROGERS: Thank you very much.

We see in 2.7.01.03, Transportation and Communications, that we have a

reduction. First of all, $170,000 was not spent last year. Can you tell me about

that?

CHAIR: Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: That had to do with the VPIs stakeholders' provincial

professional development conference and also the Provincial Aboriginal Women's

conferences. For the Violence Prevention Initiative conference, the decision was

made to essentially try a different means of reaching out as opposed to just the

traditional let's have a conference, let's get together.

So rather than hold the conference, instead stakeholder groups and

individuals who normally attend the conference were consulted directly, in a

myriad of ways really, to obtain some critical information. So instead of a

conference, there were fifteen round-table consolations that were held, all ten

of the Regional Co-ordinating Committees Against Violence were involved, for

example. There was a round-table consultation with shelters. There was a

round-table consultation with women's centres, one with Aboriginal partners, and

community organizations.

There was another round table with partner organizations of the VPI, and that

would include groups like the Transition House Association, the Newfoundland and

Labrador Sexual Assault Crisis and Prevention Centre, Citizens' Crime Prevention

Association, Seniors' Resource Centre, and the Provincial Advisory Council on

the Status of Women. As well, there was some online discussion that was

generated.

It was a look at, is there another way to do things? Can we find a better way

to reach into community and have more meaningful discussion? By doing this

particular initiative as opposed to the one conference, there was a significant

savings. Similarly, with the provincial Aboriginal Women's Conference, there was

a conflict in terms of trying to get that particular conference organized as

there was another conference in Labrador as well. The reach out and the

consultation process still happened.

MS ROGERS: So the round tables then would consist of just organizations

within a particular region, would they?

MS SULLIVAN: Yes.

MS ROGERS: So we did not have a coming together of different women's

groups from across the Province, together in one place?

MS SULLIVAN: There are often times during the year when these groups do

meet and do consult. It is my understanding from the time I worked there, in

fact, that there are often daily conversations among these groups in any case.

That continues to happen. In this case, these were focused round-table

discussions.

MS ROGERS: Thank you.

We see a reduction of $84,000 in this coming year.

MS SULLIVAN: In the Estimates this year, close to $54,000 is the reversal

of a one-time savings initiative. That is offset then by a $96,000 reduction to

the VPI stakeholders' provincial development conference that we just talked

about, and then $40,000 for the Aboriginal Women's Conference; $1,600 reduction

to the minister's travel budget; and then there was another smaller savings

related to the core mandate proposal of about $500.

MS ROGERS: Could we have that, maybe if we could just have someone jot a

note and give us that? It was just way too fast for us to write down and it will

be a while before we get our Hansard.

MS SULLIVAN: It will be in Hansard, but that is fine, yes.

MS ROGERS: Yes, it will be a while for that. Thank you very much.

I would assume that any list or written information I ask for or that Andrew

asks for, that we would both like. Thank you very much.

In Professional Services, we see a drop in what was spent, the revised in

2012-2013 in 05. Can you tell me a bit about that? I know that you had mentioned

it.

MS SULLIVAN: The revised reflects savings of $191,500 due to the deferral

of services required for the provincial violence prevention conference and the

Aboriginal Women's Conference as well. Those are the two sums that we just

explained; and the delay in program delivery under the Inuit Women Capacity

Building Program for this year of about $20,000; and, the deferral and design

requirements for the VPI campaign of about $101,000.

MS ROGERS: What campaign was deferred?

MS SULLIVAN: That was the VPI campaign, the Violence Prevention

Initiative.

MS ROGERS: Yes, but was it a specific campaign within the Violence

Prevention Initiative?

MS COCHRANE: Yes, it was. It is going to be captured in our VPI II. It is

part of our Cabinet discussion on it as we go forward in the new fiscal.

MS ROGERS: What is that?

MS COCHRANE: That will be unveiled as we move forward. There is a suite

of programs that are being proposed for VPI II. This will come out as we move

forward in the new fiscal.

MS ROGERS: If we see that money was not spent last year, and then we see

a decrease in this year, that is a significant chunk that has not been allocated

for the Violence Prevention Initiative.

MS COCHRANE: If I could provide some clarity. The minister indicated that

we held these round table discussions with our VPI stakeholders. During those

discussions, prior to getting into the design of a new campaign, we thought it

was prudent to seek input and make sure that our resources are being spent where

the experts in the area think we are best to get a return on that.

Rather than start a design of a program in the last fiscal year, we are

holding that. We are using the input we got from our stakeholder consultations

to inform and better ensure that our campaign reaches the target audience who

are most in need of this campaign.

CHAIR: Okay, Gerry, I am going to hold you on that one.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

CHAIR: Do you have one follow-up question?

MS ROGERS: Yes, I do. I have a follow-up question on this.

Thank you very much for that. You are saying we did not spend $100,000 last

year, yet we also see a reduction by $189,000 this year. You are saying that you

are holding the $100,000 for this coming year? It still seems like quite a

reduction to me.

MS COCHRANE: Understood. Certainly, the perception is perhaps there.

However, in the new VPI II there will be some design and delivery of a campaign

focused on where our stakeholders have indicated that is necessary. Once we

unveil that, you will see the importance of our campaigns.

CHAIR: Okay. I am going to hold you there, Gerry, and I am going to go

back to Andrew.

Are you done Andrew?

MR. A. PARSONS: I am done on Women's Policy, Mr. Chair.

CHAIR: You are done on Women's Policy.

Gerry.

MS ROGERS: Okay. Thank you very much.

Again, the $100,000 was not spent and we see a reduction of $189,000 in

2013-2014. What is that reduction? What will we not be able to do in this year?

MS SULLIVAN: Twelve thousand dollars of that is savings related to the

core mandate proposal; $20,000 is the reduction to the administration budget

cost overall; $60,000 is a reduction related to the Aboriginal conference

facilitator per cost savings initiative. I have a note here with regard to Rural

Secretariat, around that. Do I have the note in the right place here or not?

OFFICIAL: (Inaudible).

MS SULLIVAN: I think we decided we would use the Rural Secretariat to

help us do that work as opposed to having to outsource that to a facilitator.

MS ROGERS: They do such a great job. They do a fabulous job.

MS SULLIVAN: They have done fabulous work on a number of different

initiatives. So there is a $60,000 savings there that we can put to better use,

we think. Then there is a $128,000 reduction to the VPI conference co-ordinator

and facilitator. Again, we believe we can use the Rural Secretariat more

effectively here.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

In effect, last year then we did not have the new campaign for the Violence

Prevention Initiative as had originally been planned. I do not understand why

that is. I know that consultation had to be done but it was part of the plan of

the Violence Prevention Initiative.

MS SULLIVAN: I think there were simply delays in design of the program

itself.

was all part of a six-year initiative, or a five year

CHAIR: Rachelle.

MS COCHRANE: We still have four campaigns that are in operation today. It

is the Respect Women Campaign, the OutrageNL campaign, prevention of violence

against older persons, and the duty to report child abuse. Those campaigns are

still out there.

I should not pre-empt the discussions, Minister, but we had asked for money

last year to be prepared to do something in addition to those four campaigns. In

times of fiscal restraint, we wanted to design a program that is most

appropriate to the needs of our stakeholders; hence, why we want to defer the

design of that now, pending the outcome of our stakeholder consultations. That

will occur, it is just we will get the work done now with the advice of our

stakeholders.

MS ROGERS: I guess it seems we have lost that money and it is reduced

again this year.

MS COCHRANE: Right, but as

MS ROGERS: For a topic that is so very important.

MS COCHRANE: Understood, but I think not to take away from the work

that is currently out there, we do have four campaigns that are very active. You

alluded to that at the beginning of our session.

We are getting the message. Our stakeholders are getting the message about

violence prevention. In our survey work that we did on these campaigns, we have

had some pre and post survey work. The data indicates that we are actually

changing attitudes.

When we release VPI II, the data will be very supportive of the work that we

have done. We want to make sure that when we design a program, we hit the right

target audience.

MS ROGERS: Thank you very much for that.

Grants and Subsidies, we have looked at that. Purchased Services has a

reduction of $30,000 for 2013-2014. Where might we feel that reduction?

CHAIR: Are you referring, Gerry, to 2.7.01.06?

MS ROGERS: I am. Thank you.

CHAIR: Okay. Thank you, just for clarification.

MS SULLIVAN: Okay. The revised reflects an did you ask about the

revised or the Estimates? I am sorry.

MS ROGERS: Let's do both.

MS SULLIVAN: Okay. The revised reflects an overrun of $34,000 due to

programs such as the anti-violence program, behavioural supports program, the

Inuit Women's Capacity Building Programs, security and monitoring system, and

other miscellaneous costs. There was overrun on all of that.

In the Estimates, that reflects a reduction of $29,000; $27,000 would be in

cost-saving initiatives, $300 would be savings related to the core mandate

proposal, and $1,900 is our proportionate share of the spend analysis.

MS ROGERS: Thank you very much.

If we could move on to the line item there on the Provincial Advisory

Council, we see a reduction of $28,000.

CLERK: In 2.7.02.10 Grants and Subsidies?

MS ROGERS: That is right. Thank you.

MS SULLIVAN: Under Grants and Subsidies, 10, okay. It is the next page,

isn't it? It is not this page at all. There, now I have it, sorry.

It is the Provincial Advisory Council, which is mandated to advise the

minister. There is a $30,000 reduction there and they feel very strongly they

can easily accommodate that reduction in conversations that were had with them,

particularly around the use of more technology and teleconferencing for

meetings. There have been a number of face-to-face meetings that were held

throughout the year that the council feels strongly they can now accommodate

through teleconferencing, video conferencing, and things of that nature.

MS ROGERS: Thank you very much.

MS SULLIVAN: You are welcome.

MS ROGERS: I just have a few general questions.

MS SULLIVAN: I will do my best, but really it is not my area.

MS ROGERS: Let us see what we can do here. The Violence Prevention

Initiative evaluation has been done, so we can expect that in several months.

Has there been much gender-based analysis and research done? Was there any

gender analysis done on Budget decisions in this Budget? I do not mean just for

the budget here, but for the overall Budget.

MS SULLIVAN: Again, you are asking very generic questions, and that is a

question that was asked in the House of Assembly as well that the Premier more

than adequately answered. I can tell you only from my department that yes, there

was.

MS ROGERS: Are there reports, then, of the gender-based analysis done in

the different departments?

MS SULLIVAN: Not that I am aware of. There would not have been reports.

As we sat around to make these decisions, when it comes time to do cost cutting

within government, it is pretty tedious. It is pretty difficult work to be doing

at the best of times; however, whenever we sat around my tables, I can tell you

those questions were asked and discussed.

MS ROGERS: Doing a gender-based analysis is a very specific approach to

decision making that requires certain steps and an analysis. I would think in

order to be able to do a gender-based analysis, it would be to apply that whole

procedure to a decision-making process, which would then identify potential

outcomes and also then monitor the outcomes as stated in the evaluation and the

analysis. Has that been done?

MS SULLIVAN: This has absolutely nothing to do with these Estimates. This

is a very generic question, Mr. Chair. It was asked in the House of Assembly; it

was answered by the Premier in the House of Assembly.

I do not think anybody can question this Premier's commitment to women's

issues, Women's Policy, gender issues, or anything of that nature. We have more

senior positions, particularly in terms of ADMs and DMs, appointed in the last

eighteen months that would have seen women nominated and appointed to these

positions than ever before.

CHAIR: In fairness to the minister, Gerry, I have to say we need to stick

to the Estimates. For general questions today the minister is pinch-hitting, if

I can use that, for a lack of a better word.

MS ROGERS: Yes.

CHAIR: Some of these questions, I do not think she is in the position to

answer because she is not in that department.

MS ROGERS: Okay, so perhaps what I could do is I could rephrase that

again. I think that the gender-based analysis is one of the very specific roles

and mandates of the Women's Policy Office. Government has made a commitment as

well to look at gender-based analysis in decision making within the government.

I, as a matter of fact, stood up and asked the question about gender-based

analysis, but I asked it specifically about the closure of the Family Violence

Intervention Court. I did not, in fact, get an answer about whether or not this

specific and very concrete gender-based analysis model was applied to any of the

decision making. It affects the Budget; it affects other budgetary items both

within well right across the board in government.

I guess what I would like to know then I understand that the minister is

not intimately involved in the workings of the Women's Policy Office. Perhaps

this question then can be brought forward to the Minister Responsible for the

Women's Policy Office, and if I could get a written response to that question.

CHAIR: We will leave it in Hansard and the minister will get back to you.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

There has been a commitment that the women's centres would be getting a 5 per

cent increase, which helps them attempt to give increases to their staff. There

is a real attempt to try to professionalize the salaries of the staff in the

women's centres that are doing such vital and important work. We all know that,

and I know that the Women's Policy Office and the minister is very aware of that

and supports that work.

There has not been an increase in that. Is there going to be the

follow-through on the commitment of that? Traditionally they have been receiving

that.

CHAIR: Can you just repeat the question again?

MS SULLIVAN: No, that is fine.

CHAIR: Okay, Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: In every other area you would have seen cuts. For our

women's centres there were no cuts whatsoever. For all of our women's centres

there were no cuts. We have maintained their funding.

MS ROGERS: Okay.

What kinds of assessments or recommendations were made from the Women's

Policy Office for government in the past year? Anything in particular

MS SULLIVAN: Again, Mr. Chair, I do not know what this has to do with the

Estimates. If you can tell me what line we are on, I can go back and look at the

Estimates for you, but really and truly, that is all I can do for this morning.

CHAIR: Gerry, I have to be fair. That is just outside the scope of what

can be answered here this morning.

MS ROGERS: Okay. Thank you.

Just give me a minute here. I just have a few more questions.

There was a commitment of $125,000 per year for two years for the Inuit

capacity building initiative. Are we seeing that in this Budget?

MS SULLIVAN: Yes, we are.

MS ROGERS: Okay. Thank you.

Was there any kind of gender-based analysis done on the effects on women of

the $10 million cut to Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation?

CHAIR: Again, Gerry, that is a Newfoundland and Labrador Housing

question.

MS ROGERS: Okay. The closure of the Family Violence Intervention Court

MS SULLIVAN: That would be a Justice question. I am really sorry.

MS ROGERS: has meant there is a $10,000 loss of money to Marguerite's

Place and to Kirby House because they receive $10,000 to do empowerment groups

for women. This is a cut directly to programming within these two organizations.

Has the Women's Policy Office made any statement on that?

MS SULLIVAN: Mr. Chair, I did not have a briefing from Justice. I have no

capacity to be able to answer questions that are questions that ought to be

directed to the Department of Justice.

MS ROGERS: I will raise the question again in terms of the role of the

Women's Policy Office in being an expert resource for government in gender-based

analysis. When we look at the situation of the cuts to EAS, was there any

gender-based analysis done to that in how it was affecting women's centres and

women's programs across the Province?

CHAIR: Again, that is a question that could be

MS SULLIVAN: I would like to have a second just to respond to that. Any

paper that comes to Cabinet comes with a gender-based analysis attached to it.

MS ROGERS: There was a gender-based analysis on the cuts or the Budget

decisions?

MS SULLIVAN: I am talking about papers that go to Cabinet; they all have

a gender-based analysis attached.

MS ROGERS: Could we have a copy of those gender-based analyses?

MS SULLIVAN: No, those are Cabinet papers.

MS ROGERS: Okay. So we will not be able to see any of the gender-based

analysis that has been done on Budget decisions.

CHAIR: Those are Cabinet documents, and Cabinet documents, Gerry, I do

not think can be released.

MS ROGERS: Cabinet is not prepared to release any of the gender-based

analysis that has been done.

CHAIR: The minister cannot speak to that, Gerry.

MS ROGERS: Okay. Thank you very much.

I want to thank you very much for your time. Thank you once again for your

work and your dedication to improving the status of women and the work you are

doing to improve that status of women and the work that women's groups and

organizations are doing across the Province.

Thank you very, very much.

CHAIR: Thank you, Gerry.

Can I ask the Clerk to call the subheads, please?

CLERK: Subhead 2.7.01 to 2.7.02 inclusive.

CHAIR: Will the subheads 2.7.01 to 2.7.02 inclusive carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Those against?

Carried.

On motion, subheads 2.7.01 through 2.7.02 carried.

CHAIR: Will the total heads carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: Those against?

Carried

On motion, Women's Policy Office, total heads carried.

CHAIR: Thank you.

That concludes the Women's Policy

section of this morning's Social Services

Committee meeting. We now move forward to Child, Youth and Family Services which

can be found in our Estimates document at 14.3, starting with Executive

MS SULLIVAN: Mr. Chair, if we could have just a minute to rearrange our

seating here, so that we can have the right people

CHAIR: Sure, yes. I am just trying to get everybody up to speed here,

Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: All right. Thank you.

CHAIR: We will go to 14.3, and we will do the rearrangement.

Gerry, Mr. Kirby is attending. So we will take five, folks, and we will get

it reorganized, and Mr. Kirby will be available.

Thank you.

Recess

CHAIR: Okay, we are ready to resume. Andrew, you are on the clock.

Minister, do you want a few opening remarks as we move into Child, Youth and

Family Services, or can we just pick it up and continue?

Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: I have had a briefing around Child, Youth and Family

Services. This has not been a department in which I have ever worked. The

briefing last night was very informative for me and I see some fabulous work. Of

course we have all heard, through a number of announcements, of the work that is

happening.

This of course is a department that has been newly created. From what I can

tell, 2012-2013 was about working towards the transition of this new department,

with Labrador just recently transferring or about a year now in March of 2012,

from the regional health authority over to the Department of Child, Youth and

Family Services.

The department I think throughout this year, even though it was still a year

of transition, has done some remarkable work. Particularly around the Continuum

of Care Strategy around the block funding formula for foster parents, which I

have heard on a number of occasions has resulted in some very positive feedback

from communities for sure.

The RFP for contracted services and promotion of fostering through the Foster

a Future campaign is certainly receiving all kinds of accolades as well. We are

seeing such huge increases in numbers of children who have now been able to be

placed in homes. Forty-seven children being placed in homes with thirty-one new

homes approved as a result, or it appears to be as a result of that particular

campaign. So again, some pretty impressive work happening around that.

The 10-Year Child Care Strategy, which has to do with staffing particularly,

was addressed through the ELCC supplement program and some other initiatives

within that strategy, the implementation of the Family Child Care Initiative

project to increase the number of family child care homes and spaces.

The staff ratio as well, particularly as it pertains to the number of social

workers, the goal was to have a one-to-twenty caseload on a provincial basis. I

am happy to have learned last night that the ratio is currently at one to

twenty-one, down from twenty-seven, twenty-eight. That is certainly significant

progress in a very short period of time.

Also, the caseload around supervisors to social workers aimed for one to six.

That has been realized. I believe that is the result of some very significant

work having happened in the reorganization of the department, and in the

vigilance I think that was given to these particular cares and concerns.

Student placement positions speak, I believe, to the department's real

commitment to being able to ensure that there are adequate social workers in the

field who are available to come to work. Throughout the year they are able to

provide placements for seventy student social workers, thirty-five each term. I

believe that will pay off. It is a very progressive approach to recruitment and

retention.

I know from my own department, the work that we do around recruitment and

retention shows that through placements, particularly in rural parts of the

Province, we often achieve much better recruitment results. The Estimates will

work through I am sure, line by line to look at areas within the documents where

we have done some belt tightening and so on within Child, Youth and Family

Services.

Other than that, I think I will just leave it and we will work through the

line by line items. I beg your indulgence; I have not been involved in Child,

Youth and Family Services. I will do my best to take you through the Estimates.

The policy decisions around Child, Youth and Family Services are not a place I

can go.

CHAIR: Thank you, Minister.

I ask the Clerk to call the first subhead, please.

CLERK: Subhead 1.1.01.

CHAIR: Subhead 1.1.01.

I will turn it over to you, Andrew.

MS SULLIVAN: Do you want more than six?

CHAIR: Just give Kimberley a chance.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you. Thank you, Minister.

I am going to ask a question about the department as a whole. On Budget day

there was a backgrounder that came out. It said the number of employees in CYFS

is 734, but the budget numbers say 779. I am just wondering what the difference

between the two is?

MS SULLIVAN: Seven hundred and seventy-nine is the correct number, but

maybe I can ask Julie to explain it.

MS MOORE: Yes. I do not have the specific difference, but I can tell you

I figure that the chances are those are the temporary employees who may have

been converted to permanent over the period of time. A timing difference would

be my guesstimate.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

MS COMPANION: I could add to that.

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: We did a full reconciliation of all of our staff, all of

our permanent employees and all of our temporary employees. Now we have a full

list and we know exactly where our staff is. Those numbers may have been before

we did our reconciliation as well, but our numbers are showing us that we have

779 staff.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay, so there are 779. Is there a breakdown available to

show which ones are permanent, temporary, and casual?

CHAIR: Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: We can get that for you.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay. Thank you.

It was expected that there were going to be two layoffs and three vacant

positions eliminated. Can you confirm this, and what the positions were?

MS SULLIVAN: What line are we talking here, Andrew?

MR. A. PARSONS: Actually, I am looking at the

MS SULLIVAN: Are we in the Minister's Office?

MR. A. PARSONS: No, we are in the Budget backgrounder for CYFS. I am just

looking at the department as a whole.

MS SULLIVAN: Okay. Lori Anne can speak to that for you.

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: We had five positions that were affected. Three were

vacant, and they were not a part of our model when we did our review. One was a

clerical position that was outside of our model, and the other was a temporary

person who was appointed for a transition of the department from the regional

health authorities. That position was actually finished anyhow because we had

completed transition over the last year. We would not be focusing on transition

now, we are on to transformation.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay. I am going to move past the Minister's Office to

Executive Support, 1.2.01.

CHAIR: Subhead 1.2.01, Executive Support, page 14.3.

MR. A. PARSONS: There is something there in Salaries which has been

unusual, which is actually an increase. I am just wondering, can you explain the

increase? How many positions and what they were?

MS SULLIVAN: Salaries are estimated to be higher with the addition of an

Inquiries Co-ordinator's position and then there is some re-profiling of

previously included positions that were in Corporate Services. There is also the

anticipated retirement of three staff that would require increased funding

within that department.

Again, when we talk about moving funding from one heading to another,

Corporate Services, for example, over here to Executive Support, realizing again

that this has been a department in transition and sometimes the right envelope

of money has been applied, but it may have been in a division that it ought not

to have been.

So as the department, I think, gets more fully operational not that it is

not operational - it certainly is operational, but as it gets into the fully

transformed department, I think we will start to see the envelopes moved into

the right divisions.

MR. A. PARSONS: This Inquiries Co-ordinator position is a new position?

Is that based in St. John's and what is the pay range?

MS SULLIVAN: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: The Inquiries Co-ordinators were with us last year. They

were not new positions for this year, but they were under Corporate Services. So

you will see there will be a decrease in the Salaries under Corporate Services.

We just had to put it in the right envelope. The Inquiries Co-ordinators are

GS-40 positions.

CHAIR: Julie.

MS MOORE: Social work level, about $85,000 or $86,000 a piece.

MR. A. PARSONS: Moving forward to 1.2.02, Corporate Services. Last year

you spent about $2.3 million less than budgeted, so I am assuming some of this

was with the transition, and you used the term different envelopes. Can you just

break it down so we have an understanding?

MS SULLIVAN: Salaries are $2.3 million lower due to delays in filling

some of the positions. For example, a finance corporate position, human

resources training unit, policy leadership positions, information management

positions, and quality positions. That unit was not fully staffed in the

2012-2013. The total savings of all of that would be $2.3 million.

MR. A. PARSONS: I know that the salaries estimated for this year are

lower than what was budgeted the year before, now I know some of these are

moving are there any that are being cut but not moved; there are not cuts in

that section?

MS SULLIVAN: What I am seeing here is the transfer of those two Inquiries

Co-ordinators again. That again is just moving the envelope of money around

between executive services and corporate. Also, I am seeing the elimination of

temporary funding for three vacant positions. That again was related to the

transition itself.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

Under line 06 of that, Purchased Services, you are spending about $85,000

more than you spent last year. What are the new types of services being

purchased?

MS SULLIVAN: That is the accommodations lease for the new quality

division of Child, Youth and Family Services. That new division has been created

this year and it is in Grand Falls-Windsor. That is the lease itself.

MR. A. PARSONS: That is a nice district I hear.

MS SULLIVAN: That is a great district. They are doing great quality work

out there, too.

MR. A. PARSONS: Under 1.2.03, Professional Services, last year there was

just over $100,000 more spent than budgeted. What were the professional

services?

MS SULLIVAN: Professional Services.

CHAIR: Subhead 1.2.03.05, Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: Okay, I think I am almost there. That would have been the

Supplies?

OFFICIAL: Professional Services.

MS SULLIVAN: Okay, Professional Services, the $350,000. Mainly due to a

$250,000 promotional campaign to attract foster parents under the Continuum of

Care project. There is also a reinstatement of $100,000 as part of the 3 per

cent Budget reduction exercise or the rightsizing.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay, so these are the ads we are seeing in newspapers

about fostering and everything else?

MS SULLIVAN: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

If I might add, I think that it is working and it is doing what it is

supposed to do. I think it is a good investment. I just put that out there.

You actually covered off I was asking about last year but I was going to

ask about next year. That increase is going towards the same?

MS SULLIVAN: That is right.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

Subhead 1.2.04, Administrative Support, under Property, Furnishings and

Equipment we are spending about $180,000 more than was spent last year. What is

it for and where?

MS SULLIVAN: What you would have seen there is that 2012-2013 had a

budget of $560,000 that was budgeted to allow for the purchase of capital

equipment which was actually for housing and accommodations; they were mini

homes.

There were to have been two of those, one for Hopedale and one for Nain. The

house was purchased for Nain. The one for Hopedale was not, but will be carried

over for this year.

MR. A. PARSONS: Subhead 2.1.01, Regional Services, under the 06,

Purchased Services, there is a plan to spend an additional just under $500,000.

What is this for?

CHAIR: Subhead 2.1.01.06.

MS SULLIVAN: There was a $61,200 reallocation within the new department

to ensure funds are captured again in the proper budget envelope. Then $231,500

is annualization relating to the completion of the regional operations model

which will support it is additional staff in operations as the department

moved to the 1 to 20 ratio that we talked about earlier.

MR. A. PARSONS: So it is additional staff?

MS SULLIVAN: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Is that normally under Purchased Services?

MS SULLIVAN: Julie.

MS MOORE: Just to let you know, we did have additional staff last year

and those staff created an ongoing requirement for things like extra office

space and things like that. So Purchased Services is where your lease cost and

things like that would be. That is why it is wrapping up in the operating line.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you.

CHAIR: Dale.

MR. KIRBY: Good morning.

I just want to go back to a question that was asked on the number of

employees; 779 was the figure, was it? Are any of those positions vacant at

present?

MS SULLIVAN: Yes, there are some vacancies within the 779.

MR. KIRBY: How many positions are vacant?

MS SULLIVAN: Julie.

MS MOORE: Fifty-one vacancies.

MR. KIRBY: Fifty-one vacant positions. How many of those vacant positions

are supervisory positions?

MS MOORE: I will have to look that up.

MR. KIRBY: Do we know how many of those positions are Social Workers?

MS MOORE: I can give you the total for front-line operations; about

twenty-seven of those fifty-one would be front-line.

MR. KIRBY: Twenty-seven of those are Social Workers?

MS MOORE: It would be a Social Worker, a Social Work Supervisor, and a

Social Work Assistant, what we would call part of that team.

MR. KIRBY: Do you have a breakdown of how many are which, because I am

just interested to know in March 2011, this announcement about the new

organizational structure, I am curious to know the extent to which that has or

has not been implemented.

MS MOORE: I will read them out to you. We have one Zone Manager, seven

supervisors no Zone Manager, sorry three supervisors, two social work

assistants, three community service workers, five clerical, and the remainder

would be social workers.

MR. KIRBY: I am just going to read that back, three supervisors?

MS MOORE: I have three supervisors, yes.

MR. KIRBY: Two social work assistants?

MS MOORE: Two social work assistants.

MR. KIRBY: Three community service workers?

MS MOORE: Three community service workers, yes.

MR. KIRBY: Five clerical, and the remainder of the fifty-one

MS MOORE: Of the twenty-seven.

MR. KIRBY: Oh, sorry. The remainder of the twenty-seven are social

workers.

MS MOORE: Fourteen.

CHAIR: Fourteen, did you say, Julie?

MS MOORE: Yes, that is what I am counting.

MR. KIRBY: Where is the balance of that then if there are fifty-one

vacancies?

CHAIR: Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: Dale, I am wondering if we just might be able to take the

time to get that adequately prepared for you, as opposed to trying to do it on

the fly here this morning, and perhaps send it to you?

MR. KIRBY: Sure.

MS SULLIVAN: Okay.

MR. KIRBY: There are only two social work assistant vacancies? Does the

current complement of those positions that are supposed to be on these standard

service delivery teams, does the current complement of staff work out to one

supervisor, six social workers, one social work assistant, and one clerical

support person?

If I was to look at all of the filled and vacant positions, would the ratio

of those employees in the department work out to that or are there still

deficiencies in the numbers of people who are working? Are there enough people

to complete all of these teams or are some people doing double duty?

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: No, we are not fully completed our model yet. So we are at

one to twenty-one for the number of cases per social worker on average

throughout the Province. There may be some social workers who have one to thirty

because their caseloads may be different. Some may have one to fifteen.

We have on average one to six social workers; one supervisor to six social

workers. That means we may have some areas where there is one to seven social

workers. We may have some areas where there is one to five.

In order for us to complete our model which we will complete hopefully next

year with our four new positions that we had this year and with some of the

positions we have that we can re-profile which were vacant hopefully by next

year we will be seeing ourselves down a road where we will have fully staffed

one to six and one to twenty for our model.

You will find if you look through our model today, that we have vacancies in

social workers and we have some vacancies in supervisors. That does not mean

they are not under recruitment and are not in the process. If we have a position

that has been approved and is on our books, then it is under recruitment. It is

not left vacant.

You will find of our 779 permanent staff, what is remaining to be added to

our model will be identified once we do a reassessment of where we are next

year. Then we will identify to government how many more we need. We do not

believe we are far away now from our one to twenty.

MR. KIRBY: How many additional clerical support personnel will we need to

have hired in order to complete these teams in the way that this is configured

in the March, 2011 release?

MS COMPANION: To complete the one to twenty-one, which is where we are,

we will be at a one to twenty when we add more positions to get down to that

level.

For the clerical positions, we would not need to add to the clerical

positions right now to be at one to twenty. We would just need to make sure we

fill our vacant positions, which is what we are doing.

MR. KIRBY: The one to twenty refers to social workers, specifically.

MS COMPANION: It does.

MR. KIRBY: I am wondering about the support personnel who round out those

teams, the social work assistants and the clerical support personnel. Are there

an adequate number of those individuals now to fully fill out all of these

teams?

MS COMPANION: All the teams have been identified. A team consists of a

supervisor, six social workers, a clerical position, and a social work assistant

position. All those teams have been identified. Whether we have enough social

work positions, once we get our case closures completed and once we get our

quality data on those files really rolling, then we will know if we are at the

one to twenty or not with our caseload.

The one to twenty is what will determine how many teams we need. That is how

we did our analysis. We took the number of cases we had and we broke it down by

we would want a social worker to have twenty cases. That determined how many

social worker supervisors we needed and how many social workers, how many

clerical, and how many SWAs we needed. So our teams have been created.

MR. KIRBY: Would there be instances now where there would be one social

work assistant providing support for either more than six social workers or more

than one of the standard service delivery teams?

MS COMPANION: There may be, depending on whether we have those positions

filled or not, and if they are in the process of recruitment. Under our model,

it will provide for one clerical person and one SWA for each team.

MR. KIRBY: How many of those twenty-seven positions are currently under

active recruitment? All of them? Because we have just come out of this hiring

freeze, I am not really clear on what

MS COMPANION: They are all under recruitment. Last year we did 167

recruitments in our department, which is a lot of recruitment. We have seventy

competitions currently ongoing. We will be moving on some other competitions in

the very near future.

We did not stop filling our social worker and social worker assistant

positions. We completed right on through. We had some really priority areas, and

our social workers and our front line staff were critical. They are all in

competition and we do not wait to fill them. We fill them as soon as they become

vacant.

Actually, how we do our recruitment most of the time for our front line

workers is we do eligibility lists because that enables us. As soon as we have a

vacancy, we have a list. We have already had somebody interviewed. We are able

to call them right away.

The people who are on our eligibility list, we get them in and get them

trained before they are even in a position, so that we do not have a lag in

between and that we have positions vacant on the team. So that is some of the

recruitment measures we have utilized to try and reduce having vacancies in the

region.

CHAIR: A follow-up question, Dale, or are you good for now?

MR. KIRBY: I can wait.

CHAIR: Okay.

Andrew.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am going to go to 3.1.01, Direct Client Services. Under Allowances and

Assistance, the amount of money in Estimates is very similar to the amount spent

last year. Is there a breakdown on how this money is spent?

CHAIR: Subhead 3.1.01.09, Allowances and Assistance, Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: I do not have a breakdown here in my notes.

Lori Anne, do you have something?

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: We can speak generally to that.

MR. A. PARSONS: Yes.

MS COMPANION: It is a lot of money; it is a lot of individual

transactions. The Allowances and Assistance is really what we use to provide our

program dollars to our clients. Our Grants and Subsidies is what we provide to

our group homes and any organizations who do work with us and for us, like the

Family and Child Care Connections. The Allowances and Assistance is where we pay

all the supports for our children and our families.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

MS COMPANION: It is through Allowances and Assistance is where we really

were able to do our continuum of care.

MR. A. PARSONS: When you put it together, is there a breakdown for

regions? Do you know what you are paying out per region? I know it is a lot to

have a full list, but I am saying if there is sixty-nine, do you have an idea of

what is being spent in Eastern-Western, Lab?

MS COMPANION: We have a notional idea, but over the last year we did not

know because our regions were different than the regional health authorities. So

we did not really know what Central-East would really spend, and we had to try

to make sure we had that funding covered to be able to move it where we needed

it for the families that we had.

This year, we might be in a better position to be able to do that because we

have a year under our belt now, but the big thing that has changed is that our

new continuum of care has happened and we will have all new policies and

programs on that and really tightening up around what is approved and what is

not approved and having a process to roll that up for approval.

So, it is probably going to be another year of us trying to figure it out,

but next year, when we have our continuum of care implemented for a year, block

funding has been it has become my second nature, then we should really be able

to adequately do our regions by a breakdown.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

I am just curious, under the revenue section, federal revenue, what is the

reason for the funding? I think it is $12.8 million this year.

CHAIR: Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: It is through a federal-provincial youth justice agreement;

and you can see that there is a loss of funds there this year. It was the

unilateral decision by the federal government. In terms of what it is targeted

for, I will ask Lori Anne to give the detail.

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: The federal revenue, a portion of that is for the youth

corrections for the youth who run into trouble with the law and do community

service. The other portion of that is for the INAC agreement, the Aboriginal

agreement.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

CHAIR: Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: It is significant to notice as well that CYFS has absorbed

those cuts. They were cut by the federal government, but CYFS will absorb those

funds.

MR. A. PARSONS: Moving to actually, I have run through most of my line

by line, if I might just ask some more general questions. I understand the

situation the minister is in, but you have very qualified, capable, and

confident people around you.

MS SULLIVAN: I do; however, it is not their job to justify policy

decisions. That is the job of the ministry itself and of the minister herself.

If there are generic questions around some policies, then we are okay with some

of that.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

I will speak as generically as I can and it will be up to the minister

whether there is an answer forthcoming.

I have to ask because we all know the report that came out not that long ago

by the advocate. The advocate outlines some significant issues here: the last of

documentation, communication, assessment, and collaboration. I am just

wondering: What is being done by the department to address the issues outlined

by the advocate?

CHAIR: Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: As with the Susan Abell report we have accepted the

recommendations, agreed with the recommendations, and we are moving forward.

Lori Anne can give you some specifics with regard to the recommendations that

were there and actions that have been taken, if you need that information.

MR. A. PARSONS: Yes.

I am just going to move forward here. Under the recommendations there is a

number that was common throughout the three reports. One of them was to ensure

that child protection reports are properly and totally completed, which must be

done at time of intake to include all relevant information. What percentage of

these is completed fully and properly right now?

MS SULLIVAN: Lori Anne can provide some detail around that.

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: We implemented our quality unit to start to monitor that.

We did some baseline data as soon as the regions came on with us. The baseline

data was pretty reflective of Susan Abell's report and some of the

recommendations in the CYA.

We have implemented quality indicators as the department's regions reports

monthly on child protection reports, risk assessments, family-centred action

plans. We collect monthly data. We review it monthly, as soon as it comes. We do

interventions when we see that it is not rising as quickly as it should, or that

we believe it should.

We are not at 100 per cent because it is going to take a while and it takes a

while to get there, but we have seen some pretty significant increases. Western

was our first region to transition. We have seen increases of 50 per cent in

their FCAPs, family planning, and child protection reports done. We have seen

huge increases in making sure that things happen immediately when referrals are

made.

We have seen significant increases in Central. Metro has just started

reporting because they just got their model running. We monitor regularly. We do

regular interventions and we are definitely seeing progress amazing progress.

MR. A. PARSONS: Was there any staff hired who are tasked with doing this,

or is it sort of laid on the people already within the system?

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: Minister, are you okay?

MS SULLIVAN: No, that is fine.

MS COMPANION: Every social worker has a responsibility to report on their

files. We are at a 1 to 21 and when get to 1 to 20, 20 cases should be fairly

reasonable, at this point, to be able to report and report accurately on your

work. It is part of proper case management, proper management from an

operational perspective.

Supervisors are also engaged and supervisors review those reports and they do

audits. They are required to do a minimum of two audits on each social worker's

file every month to make sure that the work is being done and checking the

quality of the work. It helps in the clinical decision making, too, because if a

social worker starts to go down a path probably where they might want to

rethink, then the supervisor is engaged and it provides a significant means to

be able to keep things from going too far off the rails.

MR. A. PARSONS: Two per month; so the goal is basically one out of every

ten for each social worker, when it all put in place, will be looked at each

month. That is the goal?

MS COMPANION: It is and we have a quality unit which also does audits.

MR. A. PARSONS: It says here: The department much ensure that children

are physically and critically observed during a referral and always observed

during every home visit. Has this policy been implemented or was it already in

place?

MS COMPANION: It is in place. It was through the new act. The new

legislation provides the social worker with the ability and the authority to be

able to observe and interview everyone who is in the home.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

I have one topic. I am going to start it now, but I will probably have to

come back. I guess I will just move off now and I will get it when I come back.

CHAIR: Okay, fine. Thank you.

Dale.

MR. KIRBY: Thanks.

In addition to getting a list of those vacant positions, I am wondering if it

is possible to also get a list of the current personnel who would form these

service delivery teams. How many supervisors, how many social workers in total,

how many social work assistants, and how many clerical support personnel would

be working with those teams? Is it possible for me to get a list of how many of

those positions are filled at present?

MS SULLIVAN: Sure. Again, you are not looking for the names of personnel,

you are simply looking for the numbers of positions and how many are filled.

Yes.

MR. KIRBY: I am also interested to know about the extent of personnel

turnover in the department as a result of layoffs and bumping throughout the

department. In particular, I am thinking about the Whitbourne situation. There

would be a number of child and youth workers who are working out there for

extended periods of time who would be bumping through the system. What is the

extent of turnover personnel that is resulting from that and other

MS SULLIVAN: We will get those numbers for you as well.

MR. KIRBY: You will be able to provide a breakdown of how many people I

am interested to know how many staff has been bumped out of the department to

basically provide a place for those who, by virtue of their collective

agreement, are entitled to bump in somewhere.

MS SULLIVAN: I am going to ask Lori Anne to speak to that for a second

because I think we can offer some clarification around that this morning.

MR. KIRBY: Sure.

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: That process has not fully worked through yet. There are

some people in Whitbourne who would be considering bumping into some of our

positions. That process has not worked through, so we have not yet seen the end

result of that. We can provide that once we see the end result, if that is okay

with you.

MR. KIRBY: When will that process be complete?

CHAIR: Julie.

MS MOORE: We have, I am thinking, in the range of thirty to forty-five

days for that bumping to take effect. It would have started; my estimate is

early in May. We probably have thirty more days before it is all worked through

the system because that is a different bargaining unit than say GS. People have

to identify and consider their options. Then they may cause multiple bumps, et

cetera, and things like that.

MR. KIRBY: The department will be able to provide me with some accounting

of that process then once it is if I follow up in June, the end of next month,

to see what has happened?

MS SULLIVAN: Yes.

MR. KIRBY: Okay. Another thing I wanted to ask about was the this press

release is dated February 11, 2013.

MS SULLIVAN: What line are we on? I am sorry.

MR. KIRBY: Well, I do not know. That is a good question, maybe you can

tell me.

This is the Request For Proposals let me see if I have it noted here where

I think it is. This is the long-term Continuum of Care Strategy, and this

Request For Proposals, the deadline for submissions was noon, Friday, March 22.

Perhaps this falls under Direct Client Services, 3.1.01. I am just wondering

about the status of that RFP because we have not heard anything about it since.

MS SULLIVAN: Okay. Go ahead.

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: That is the RFP for our out-of-home placement for

residential care. That closed in March. That is a significant piece of work. It

is for every group, group home, and individual living arrangements throughout

the Province. It is currently being reviewed by our internal staff. We expect to

see those awards in the coming months for sure.

MR. KIRBY: In the coming months?

MS COMPANION: Yes, it is a big process.

MR. KIRBY: Yes. So, by the end of this summer?

MS COMPANION: Yes, we would expect to see that by the end of this summer.

MR. KIRBY: Okay. Is there some plan to have a quality framework

incorporated into that somehow, that there can be some assessment of quality and

accountability for quality provided through those contracts?

MS COMPANION: Absolutely. There will be a very significant contract put

in place with the award of the RFP and it will absolutely provide quality of

care, regular reporting and monitoring, review of contracts, regular updates,

and regular process, as we would with all other contracts.

MR. KIRBY: What is the extent to which that information will be available

to me, the framework and the quality, the reporting mechanisms, and so on?

MS COMPANION: They are under regular access. They will be individual

contracts with organizations and no different than any other contract. It will

be a contract for service.

MR. KIRBY: Yes. Is that something I would be able to access then? I can

request it, but I request information and I get back black pieces of paper.

MS SULLIVAN: Does anybody here know about contracts? Do we release

individual contracts that we have with outside agencies?

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: Yes, we do.

MS SULLIVAN: Okay.

MS COMPANION: We release contracts all the time. If we have a contract

with Choices for Youth and somebody asks for that contract, it is public money

with an organization and that is the contract. There would be no reason, from my

estimation, why they would not be subject to those kinds of

MR. KIRBY: Okay. Is there any particular plan at present for how these

arrangements will be monitored, or is that to be determined? I often hear

complaints or hear from people who have concerns about the extent to which

companies that are providing those services at present are being monitored, or

at least the perception. There is a perception that the monitoring is not

sufficient.

MS COMPANION: That was the whole purpose of our RFP, to see who can

provide those services, to be able to get the best care, and at a reasonable and

contracted price. The other purpose is to make sure we have contracts in place

that are monitored, regular process, follow up, and know about the care of our

children and what is being provided.

MR. KIRBY: Okay. You may have it there; you may not. I am interested in

the current number of children and the ages of those children, at least the age

groups, a breakdown of the ages of the children who are in ALAs and ILAs by

region.

CHAIR: Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: We do have that information here. It might be easier just to

put it together in a package and send it over to you.

MR. KIRBY: Sure. Do you want me to follow up to request this information?

It is just that last year I

MS SULLIVAN: No, we are taking notes here. That is fine.

MR. KIRBY: Okay, because I had not heard from either of the other

departments last year by November. Then I decided to write to them at that point

so that we could have the information at least by this Budget year.

MS SULLIVAN: Okay.

MR. KIRBY: I can write sooner than later to follow up on these, yes.

MS SULLIVAN: Sure, if you will. Okay, you can give us a specific list

then.

MR. KIRBY: Okay.

MS SULLIVAN: It is here.

MR. KIRBY: Okay, I will stop there.

CHAIR: Okay.

Andrew.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am just going to go back to the recommendations. The ones I am talking

about are the ones that were found in each of the reports, all three.

CRMS, the Client Referral Management System, the recommendation was that

information must be entered as per prescribed standards. I am just wondering:

how is CRMS working these days? Is the recommendation being followed?

MS SULLIVAN: Are you asking some general questions around the reports, or

are we going to go through all of these recommendations?

MR. A. PARSONS: Actually, I was probably going to end with this one.

MS SULLIVAN: Okay, that is fine. I needed to have some direction as to

where it was that you were going.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

MS SULLIVAN: It is just one more of them.

Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: Yes, we have implemented that recommendation as well. We

have significant documentation standards in place that were released in July of

2012. As of this day forward documentation shall be entered into CRMS and the

file shall be completed. It is a part of the quality monitoring process then for

documentation and for CRMS.

MR. A. PARSONS: Is there a new system that was going to be implemented?

If that is the case, when is that coming in?

MS COMPANION: The new system, the RFP closed in March.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay.

MS COMPANION: I think it was March, or in February. The assessment is

being completed. We should see that being awarded in the coming weeks and

months. We will definitely be down the road of a new system which is going to

make the difference.

MR. A. PARSONS: Is there anticipated cost to the system, any internal?

MS COMPANION: We do not really know what the full cost will be because we

have not awarded the project yet. So, I would not be able to

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay. No, that is what I said, anticipated. Is there any

ballpark?

CHAIR: Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: We would not put that out there when we are in the process

of doing the RFP, Andrew.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay. I am just going to move forward to some other

general stuff.

We received a couple of briefing notes from the department on Friday, and it

says there were two internal reviews completed on the house fire case that we

all know resulted in tragedy. I am just wondering, who did the reviews? Was it

someone external or someone internal to the department?

MS SULLIVAN: It was internal.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay. Were there any changes implemented as a result of

the investigations?

MS COMPANION: What our process is is we do the internal review. We

identify if there was

an act of omission or commission and if there was

something that we need to follow up on from a policy perspective. We then meet

with the region, we meet with staff, we make any necessary policy changes, and

we make sure that those issues are identified.

MR. A. PARSONS: When I look at the briefing notes and it says internal

investigation, so that is someone obviously within the department. It is not

someone brought in, it is within. Okay. So the department investigates the

department?

MS COMPANION: Actually, they should probably be called file reviews. We

review our file, we check to make sure that we did what was required.

MR. A. PARSONS: Are internal reviews treated differently than the

Advocate reviews in terms of recommendations? Is there a difference, or are they

all looked at and sort of handled the same?

MS COMPANION: Our reviews look at the same kind of thing that the

Advocate would look at. We look at: Was policy followed? Were things done in

accordance with our legislation and with our policies and procedures? We look at

if there was an action that should have happened or did not happen, and we

follow up from that perspective.

MR. A. PARSONS: Are there any internal recommendations that are not

followed or implemented at this point?

MS COMPANION: No, not that no. Any reviews that we do of a file we

follow up and the changes happen. Our policy people do the review.

MR. A. PARSONS: According to these notes, CYFS is engaging an external

consultant to finalize an operating grant program, and the deadline to apply for

this was in February. Can you provide us an update on what the goal of the RFP

is and where we stand?

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: The RFP, the minister would have mentioned that last year

when we announced it, when the 10-Year Child Care Strategy was announced, and

when we developed the operating grant program we did an internal notional

program that we would have believed would have been appropriate but we really

need to do a check and balance with an outside organization to make sure before

we roll out an operating grant program that it is going to be something that

will really work for people. That it will be something that is going to be

successful.

MR. A. PARSONS: Has it been awarded?

MS COMPANION: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay. Who was it awarded to?

MS COMPANION: It was awarded to Ernest and Young.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay. The terms of the RFP, when do you expect a report

back or some kind of

MS SULLIVAN: Go ahead, Donna.

MS O'BRIEN: We are expecting no later than early fall.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay. Thank you.

This is another general question. It is something that has come up in the

House though, and that is the issue up in Natuasish with the gas sniffing, which

is troubling and it is long term and does not seem to be getting any better.

What is the department doing in terms of concrete measures to address it?

Because we just saw it in the last couple of weeks. Are we trying something new?

Again, this is something that has been around for so long, yet we are still

facing. I do not know if the department obviously it has been discussed, I

know that, but what are we going to do to address it?

CHAIR: Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: There certainly has been an inordinate amount of attention

paid to this issue because, as you indicated, this is a very serious issue.

There have been conversations held with the two chiefs. I think there has been

some agreement come to. In terms of sitting down and having conversations, the

chiefs are very insistent that we needed to understand from their perspective

the kinds of initiatives that needed to be put in place.

We have had one round table discussion. The acting minister was involved in

conversation with both chiefs; I think early last week, if I am not mistaken.

Donna and some of her people are scheduled to go up and meet early next week, I

believe, Donna?

MS O'BRIEN: Yes, the middle of next week.

MS SULLIVAN: The middle of next week. As well, the acting minister has

committed to also go into Labrador to sit down and have those important

conversations on the ground, not just with the chiefs but with other people who

are there. That in terms of the dialogue is where we have come to this point in

time and we will continue to follow up with that.

We have a complement of staff as well who are working there. We have seven

staff who we have working. I do not recall all of the details in terms of who is

where, I used to know that.

We have staff from Western who are going in as well. They are all looking at

creative ways to keep children in their own communities. That is essentially the

issue, finding a way to keep children with their families and keep children in

their communities.

It is at this stage, still in the stage of ongoing consultation. The chiefs

have been very supportive of the actions that we are taking at this point in

time.

MR. A. PARSONS: The department signed I think it is three MOUs with

Aboriginal communities in Labrador. Are we able to get a copy of these

memorandums?

MS SULLIVAN: Yes, they are on-line.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you.

The last question I will get in, going back to the issue in Sheshatshiu where

the office was boarded up. Can you give us an update on it? How many children

are there in care in our Province?

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: There are 775 children in care.

MR. A. PARSONS: Seven hundred and seventy-five?

MS COMPANION: Yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: How many of these children are Aboriginal?

MS COMPANION: Aboriginal children in care, 262.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay. Of these children, how many children are kept in

the community and how many are sent down to the Province?

MS COMPANION: We do have that number; I just do not have it with me. We

do know, just one second.

Donna, do you remember that number from yesterday?

MS O'BRIEN: Pardon me?

CHAIR: Donna.

MS COMPANION: Do you remember the number from yesterday? How many

children are in (inaudible) and how many of them are (inaudible)?

MS O'BRIEN: I can get that information for you, but unfortunately I

cannot recall that.

MR. A. PARSONS: Okay. I am just wondering, how many are sent to the

Island versus how many are sent outside of the Province as well? Are we able to

get that?

MS O'BRIEN: All the children of those communities who are not in the

Province?

MR. A. PARSONS: Yes.

MS O'BRIEN: I can certainly get those for you, yes.

MR. A. PARSONS: Excellent.

CHAIR: Okay. Are you good, Andrew?

MR. A. PARSONS: Yes.

CHAIR: Okay.

Dale.

MR. KIRBY: Yes, I just want to go back to the RFP on the Continuum of

Care Strategy. I do not know if I am missing something, but what is the plan

going forward for infant care, where they will be placed?

MS SULLIVAN: Sorry, I did not hear the question, but go ahead.

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: The plan for infant care is for us to increase our foster

homes.

MR. KIRBY: Increase foster homes.

MS COMPANION: Increase the number of foster homes. That is exactly where

we believe infants should be. Our promotional campaign is showing some

significant signs of increasing foster homes, and that is what our plan is for

infants.

MR. KIRBY: Okay.

On page 14.7, Child Care Services, 4.1.01; the total amount budgeted for

2013-2014 is $26.3 million but the backgrounder for the Budget that was released

on March 26 talks about an investment of $31.1 million in 2013-2014 for child

care. Where is the balance of that? Child Care Services is $26.8 million, where

is the remainder to make up to $31.1 million?

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: There was funding when we transferred the staff from the

regional health authorities. There was some funding that was for child care that

was deferred. That $3-point-some-odd million is being utilized from our deferred

revenues. It is one-time funding, and the government will pick up that one-time

funding thereafter.

MR. KIRBY: Okay. The backgrounder for the Budget breaks that funding down

into different categories, Child Care Services subsidy, Early Learning and Child

Care Supplement, et cetera. Is that funding you are referencing, the $3.5

million or whatever it is, is that spread across these programs and initiatives

or is it

MS COMPANION: Yes, it is. It is the one pot of money for these programs

and initiatives, as you can see in Estimates.

MR. KIRBY: Okay. There was a two-year regulated family care pilot

project. Do we have any sense of the results of that or the number of new family

daycares that the Province now has as a result of that?

MS SULLIVAN: Go ahead.

MS COMPANION: We have over 700 spaces in family child care homes. Our

Family Child Care Initiative, the pilot, produced over 400 spaces over the last

two years. It was an initiative that was a pilot and it will be continuing, as

noted in the release for this year.

MR. KIRBY: I just want to throw this out there because I am personally

affected by this. In the case of family child care centres, I would be hesitant

to say always the case, but it is close to always the case, that there is just

one care provider on site. I am not aware of any contingency plan for when that

person is ill or that person is bereaved or what have you. It would seem to me

that families would be, occasionally, fairly inconvenienced. We are talking up

to four children families would be fairly inconvenienced when that child care

is not available during the flu season.

It is not like a regulated child care centre where there are multiple staff

on site who can kick in or they can call somebody in on an on-call basis to

provide child care. Is this something that is considered at all? I am not sure

what the solution is but it is certainly a problem, I think.

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: I understand, and we are evaluating the family child care

pilot. That is why it was a pilot, so we can have a look now and see how we need

to tweak it, what we need to do. It is certainly something that we will be

identifying as an issue, whether we have a solution at this point, but we will

certainly be identifying it as an issue to assess under our family child care

program.

MR. KIRBY: Yes. I think workplace productivity is a really important

metric to consider when it comes to the provision of child care because if mom

and dad, or mom or dad, are unable to work than obviously that has some economic

impact and something we want to try and avoid.

Under 10, Grants and Subsidies, there is slightly more budgeted this year. It

is $134,000 thereabouts additional. Do you have records that show the number of

families and then the number of children who are in receipt of the subsidies? Do

you have that data?

CHAIR: Minister.

MS SULLIVAN: Yes, we can get that to you. The $134,000 or $133,900 that

you are referring to is for out-year funding. It is the escalator clause. That

accounts for that funding as part of the 10-Year Child Care Strategy, but we can

certainly get you the other information that you are looking for as well.

MR. KIRBY: Yes, I am interested in what we were getting for what we were

spending and then now what is it we are getting extra as a result of this

specifically, the numbers of families who are benefitting and numbers of kids.

Obviously, sometimes there are multiple children.

MS SULLIVAN: Okay.

MR. KIRBY: I am also wondering if we can get a breakdown of the number of

regulated centres, the number of family daycares, and the number of spaces by

region, because I am interested. Obviously, this situation on the Northeast

Avalon would be different than the Burin Peninsula, Central, Western, or

Labrador.

MS SULLIVAN: Okay. That is no problem.

MR. KIRBY: I do not think I have any other questions here.

Under 09, Allowances and Assistance, what does that provide for specifically

under that line?

CHAIR: Subhead 4.1.01.09, is that what we are referring to, Dale?

MR. KIRBY: Correct, yes.

MS SULLIVAN: Allowances paid to individuals, I do not have any detail

with regard to that.

Lori Anne, do you have detail with regard to what is paid under those

allowances to individuals?

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

It is 4.1.01.09, Allowances and Assistance, Lori Anne.

MR. KIRBY: It is $17.4 million.

MS COMPANION: Yes. The Allowances and Assistance would be our inclusion

programs where we pay inclusion benefits. It would include our ECE supplements,

which we provide through that program. It is the funding through all of our

child care programs.

MR. KIRBY: The inclusion grants are included in here for children with

MS COMPANION: With special needs.

MR. KIRBY: With special needs?

MS COMPANION: Yes.

MR. KIRBY: There are other things obviously included in that as well?

MS COMPANION: Yes, it is inclusion, and it is all of our programs. It is

our Inclusion Program, our subsidy program, our Early Learning Child Care

Supplement program.

MR. KIRBY: Okay. I would also like to know then how many daycares and how

many early childhood educators are receiving some form of subsidy through there.

MS COMPANION: Yes.

MR. KIRBY: Then the other thing sorry, not to go on but

CHAIR: Yes, I will let you (inaudible).

MR. KIRBY: The other thing I am interested in is the administrative

processing period for the inclusion grants. You hear things anecdotally. I do

not know if things are correct or not, that sometimes it takes an inordinate

amount of time for that to be processed. I do not know if that is a fact or not,

but it is something I have heard.

When it is your kids and they have special education needs, and I guess

people are very vigilant about making sure their kids have the quality of care

they need, but I am not sure if it is that or if it is I would just like to

know, what is the average time period for processing these applications?

CHAIR: Lori Anne.

MS COMPANION: We have our Inclusion Program. The Inclusion Program has

not yet been have the intense review that we have done with some other

programs, like the Continuum of Care and the 10-Year Strategy, but you will see

the Inclusion Program being reviewed very soon. It is on our immediate to-do

list. That will look at the wait times, how long it takes, what needs to be done

to make sure it works well and properly.

MR. KIRBY: Good.

Thanks.

CHAIR: Andrew.

MR. A. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a number of questions left but I think many of them can be answered

via correspondence. I am going to be asking about out-of-province placements,

just updates on numbers for regions, alternative and independent living

arrangements, and things like that. Can I get confirmation that if I put these

in letter format I will get the numbers that you have? That is not an issue?

MS SULLIVAN: That is not a problem at all.

MR. A. PARSONS: The other one is foster families and foster homes, just

the breakdowns per region. I guess that will go with some of the other questions

we have. It is probably easier for you to sit back and look at your numbers and

put them all in the one and send it off.

Mr. Chair, those are all the questions I have. I would just like to thank the

minister for pinch-hitting and doing such a good job. I would also like to thank

the department and the officials for taking the time to be with us here today

and answering the questions.

Thank you very much.

MS SULLIVAN: Mr. Chair, if I could, to one of the questions that Andrew

asked earlier around the total number of Aboriginal children in care.

CHAIR: Sure.

MS SULLIVAN: I think we misspoke. We said 262, it is 282 old eyes over

here, Andrew.

MR. A. PARSONS: No comment, Mr. Chair.

CHAIR: Fair, Andrew.

Dale.

MR. KIRBY: I have no further questions.

Thank you.

CHAIR: There being no further questions, I want to once again, Minister,

thank you for pinch-hitting. You did a great job. I want to thank all the staff

who came and answered all the questions, and provided all of us with some great

information this morning. It has been great being here.

Just before we leave, there are a couple of small things. First, I am going

to ask the Clerk to call the subheads, please.

CLERK: 1.1.01

CHAIR: 1.1.01.

Shall the first subhead carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, subhead 1.1.01 carried.

CLERK: 1.2.01 to 4.1.02, inclusive.

CHAIR: 1.2.01 to 4.1.02, inclusive.

Shall those subheads carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, subheads 1.2.01 through 4.1.02 carried.

CLERK: Total.

CHAIR: Shall the total carry?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, Department of Child, Youth and Family Services, total heads

carried.

CHAIR: Shall I report the Estimates of the Department of Child, Youth and

Family Services and Women's Policy approved?

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those against, nay'.

Carried.

On motion, Estimates of the Department of Child, Youth and Family Services

and Women's Policy carried without amendment.

CHAIR: One last short piece of business and, seeing the Page is not here,

I will do it. We need to approve the minutes of our last meeting.

Can I have a motion to approve the May 2 minutes of the Social Services

Committee for the Department of Health and Community Services?

MR. A. PARSONS: So moved.

CHAIR: Moved by Mr. Parsons; seconded by Mr. Crummell.

All those in favour, aye'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.

CHAIR: All those opposed?

Carried.

On motion, minutes adopted as circulated.

CHAIR: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for your time this

morning. It has been a wonderful meeting. Have a nice afternoon.

On motion, the Committee adjourned.