Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Statements by Ministers — 23 March 2004 (45th General Assembly, 1st Session, Vol. XLV No. 3)
2004-03-23
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
March 23, 2004 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLV No. 3
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Hodder): Order, please!
Admit strangers.
Members and visitors will note that the lights in the House today are not as
bright as they usually are. I am advised that there is a technical difficulty
which is currently being addressed by the appropriate personnel. Our apologies
for any inconvenience that this problem may present to members or to visitors.
I am also pleased today to welcome to the gallery some students from the
Keyin College, Human Resources Management Class, and their instructor Ms
Paulette Sampson.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The Chair would now like to rule on a point of order raised
last evening by the hon. Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace concerning the
comments of the hon. Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
The two members have differing opinions about a particular set of facts. This
is not a question of order but, as has been ruled in this House, it is a
difference of opinion between two hon. members. As previous Speakers have ruled
in accordance with 494 of Beauchesne 6 th Edition,
"...statements by Members respecting themselves and particularly within
their own knowledge must be accepted. It is not unparliamentary temperately to
criticize statements made by Members as being contrary to the facts.... On rare
occasions this may result in the House having to accept two contradictory
accounts of the same incident."
As well at this time I wish to remind members that they are to show respect
for one another and show tolerance for differing opinions. This means that each
member is entitled to speak, and each member can expect a fair hearing whether
or not other members agree with what they say or not.
To quote Speaker Parent of the Canadian House of Commons noted in Marleau and
Montpetit, "Thus regardless of how dramatically our opinions may diverge or
how passionately we hold to convictions that our political opponents do not
share, civility must be respected."
Part of this respect is tolerance. Offensive or rude behaviour or
unparliamentary language or conduct cannot be accepted. I ask all members on
both sides of the House to reflect on the necessity for tolerance towards each
other and for the institution of Parliament itself.
Statements by members today, we have statements from the following members
that will be heard in this order: The Member for Bonavista North, the Member for
Bay of Islands, the Member for Burin-Placentia West, the Member for Port de
Grave, the Member for Humber Valley, and the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au
Clair.
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bonavista North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HARDING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise in this House today and offer
congratulations to the Society of United Fishermen, Branch 53, in Badger's
Quay. On Friday of this week, Branch 53 will be celebrating its 100 th
Anniversary. The Society of United Fishermen, as most members probably know, is
a fraternal organization that has served a very important purpose in the history
and culture of this Province.
Mr. Speaker, over its long history, the organization has somewhat changed its
focus to some extent from not only assisting its own members and their families
but also helping all needy individuals throughout their communities and the
Province. This is no doubt attributed to the changes in our society. Their major
financial contribution each year to the Janeway Telethon is a prime example of
this.
Again, Mr. Speaker, I want to offer my congratulations to the Society of
United Fishermen in Badger's Quay, and I pay particular tribute to all of the
men of that community and that area who have kept it going over the years,
especially men such as Art Wicks, Cator Kean, Gilbert Knee and many others who
have been actively involved for many, many years.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate Elizabeth Gallagher,
Geoff Carnell, and Keith House for being inducted to the Newfoundland and
Labrador Tennis Hall of Fame.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, Hear!
MR. JOYCE: Elizabeth Gallagher, the Sargent-at-Arms here in the House of
Assembly, has been recognized for her determination in establishing the
provincial tennis archives. She and her husband, Ray Gallagher, also received
special recognition as they are to be retiring as Tennis Archivists.
Carnell is recognized for serving five years as President of the Riverdale
Tennis Association and being appointed as Newfoundland's first to the Board of
Directors of Tennis Canada. Carnell was also presented with the Tennis
Distinguished Service award.
Keith House, the last 2003 inductee, has been recognized for his excellent
help with building tennis in Mount Pearl for over thirty years. The induction
ceremony was held on August 30 at the Bally Haly Golf and Curling Club.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members to join me in extending our congratulations to
Elizabeth Gallagher, Geoff Carnell and Keith House for being the 2003 inductees
to the Newfoundland and Labrador Tennis Hall of Fame for the individual
achievements for tennis in and out of this Province.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Burin-Placentia West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JACKMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It gives me great pleasure this afternoon to stand before this House to
deliver an address to Mr. Wayne Vokey. Mr. Vokey is an educator, who was a
colleague of mine in my previous profession, and is presently a patient at the
Burin Peninsula Health Care Facility.
To describe Wayne, I enthusiastically use words such as animated, energetic,
sincere, and most importantly, dedicated to the students that he teaches.
Throughout our time working together, Mr. Vokey and I have built a mutual
respect that continues to this day and, Mr. Speaker, it is a respect that I
believe exists between himself and many of his students.
Mr. Speaker, I think it quite timely that I bring this address to a teacher
such as Mr. Vokey. For in the educational scheme of things, while numerous
matters related to education often dominate discussions, teachers such as Mr.
Vokey come to remind us that it is not always money that makes education so
relevant. More often than not, it is the interaction between teachers and
students that leads to life long learning. Many of the most important lessons in
education, and indeed in life, do not come from books - they come from the
heart.
Mr. Vokey is a very dedicated teacher, one who deserves mention. On a recent
visit to Mr. Vokey I saw a card given to him by a student who had gone through a
family medical crisis. She wanted to return to Mr. Vokey some of the kindness he
had shown her in her time of need. Due to an illness, it was now his time for a
need for support and this student wanted to return the favour.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in wishing Mr. Vokey
- Wayne - a speedy recovery, and we entrust his timely return to the classroom;
to the medical staff of the Burin Placentia Heath Care Centre.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to celebrate the 106th birthday of Mrs. Elizabeth Bradbury of
Coley's Point in the beautiful district of Port de Grave.
Born on January 20, 1898, Mrs. Bradbury has experienced three centuries of
life and has been a shining example of excellent health the entire way through.
I recently had the opportunity to attend her birthday celebration at her home
in Coley's Point, where she was surrounded by most of her family and many of
her neighbours and friends.
Mr. Speaker, the family of Mrs. Bradbury includes seven children, sixteen
grandchildren, twenty-one great-grandchildren and five
great-great-grandchildren.
Though Mrs. Bradbury is now confined to her home, up until a few short years
ago she insisted on being taken out daily to drive through the communities, to
see the place where she was born.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in
congratulating Mrs. Elizabeth Bradbury of Coley's Point on the occasion of her
106 th Birthday.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Humber Valley.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS GOUDIE: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate a resident of my
district, Humber Valley, who is doing our Province proud on an international
level.
On March 6, 2004 Deer Lake native Darren Langdon played in his 500 th
National Hockey League game.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS GOUDIE: This is a feat that all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are
proud of.
Darren is an inspiration to all young men and women in our Province, not only
hockey players. He has shown through his hard work and dedication to the game of
hockey that anything in life is achievable. He has played at all levels of
hockey and never gave up until he became a full-time player in the NHL.
Mr. Speaker, I had the pleasure of coaching Darren in minor soccer and
softball and his attitude is what I will always remember. He was a team player
and always put others first; an attitude he is still known for today in the
Montreal Canadiens dressing room.
Darren has a strong connection to home. He returns in his off season with his
wife Jillian, oldest daughter Kennedy and triplets Drew, Brett and Brooke. He
has played with four NHL teams and always takes care of people from home who
travel to see him play, ensuring they have a great experience while visiting. He
also regularly calls home while playing in the NHL to see how his beloved Deer
Lake Red Wings are doing and looks forward to the day when he can return to his
homeland of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of the House of Assembly today to join me in
congratulating Darren Langdon on playing in his 500th NHL game.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to congratulate Ms Sherrilynn Butt, a native of the great
district of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair, for recently being named Miss
Congeniality at the Miss Universe Canada Pageant in Toronto this January.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Ms Butt is a flight attendant with Provincial Airlines and was
crowned Miss Newfoundland and Labrador last September. Last month she competed
with fifty other girls from across Canada as the sole representative of this
Province. She was an excellent ambassador for Newfoundland and Labrador and
being named Miss Congeniality reflects the friendliness and hospitality that is
demonstrated by the people of our Province on many occasions.
The people of Cartwright-L'anse au Clair and her hometown of Red Bay are
very proud of Sherrilynn. She is a young, successful woman whose views on
humanity and Labrador have helped her achieve public recognition.
I will have the opportunity to congratulate her personally myself, Mr.
Speaker, on Thursday, as she will be the guest speaker at the Labrador Fishermen's
Union Shrimp Company, AGM, in the Labrador Straits.
I would like, today, to ask all hon. members to join me in extending our
congratulations to Ms Sherrilynn Butt of Red Bay.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Before we proceed to the Statements by Ministers, I want to
remind all hon. members that Statements by Members are supposed to be one minute
in length. While the Speaker is very tolerant and while the Speaker does not
wish to interrupt such presentations, as they are very important to the families
who are involved, to the members, to the House and to the Province, however I
would ask the members if they would keep in mind that while tolerance is
accepted on this particular matter we should try to keep our statements within
the allocated time.
Thank you very much.
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I want to inform members of the House of Assembly, Mr. Speaker, and indeed
the public of the Province, that the Canada-Newfoundland Offshore Petroleum
Board issued, earlier today, the 2004 Call for Bids. This Call for Bids is
comprised of five parcels of land, located in the Jeanne d'Arc Basin and cover
an area of approximately 270,000 hectares.
Late last year, as most members are aware, we had the most successful Land
Sale in our history. Over $672 million was committed on eight parcels of land
located in the Orphan Basin, three times more than our previous highest total
bid. The most recent Call for Bids, in our view, is a sign that there is
continued interest in the petroleum potential off our coast.
At a time when close to $1 billion has been committed over the next five
years for exploration in our offshore, oil companies are maintaining their
interest in the potential of our resources, Mr. Speaker. We have witnessed some
key industry players make significant financial commitments to exploration. We
encourage their continued interest. We also welcome new players, Mr. Speaker, to
become involved in exploring our offshore area.
Further exploration is a critical component, I believe most members would be
aware, to ensure that we build on the momentum of our oil and gas industry. Just
as important as the next development for this Province is the next discovery,
and exploration is the first critical step to this discovery.
Mr. Speaker, this government has made a commitment to the people of the
Province, and indeed the Premier of the Province has made the commitment on
behalf of all of us, and that is to secure meaningful benefits from the
development of our natural resources, to do what we need, in other words to
identify and further identify opportunities for future development. That is why
I, as the minister, am encouraged on the heels of the 2003 land sale results,
the C-NOPB is in a position to offer its new Call for Bids today.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. minister for an advance copy
of his statement. It is indeed good news for the people of Newfoundland and
Labrador, and indeed the offshore petroleum industry, that we have this
announcement. I am glad also that the minister recognizes the good work that was
performed by the staff of the Department of Natural Resources in the past, as
well as the past Administration, because we just did not get to this point
today. This has been an ongoing work for many, many years, and it is certainly
nice to see that is being acknowledge by him here. It is through their efforts,
his staff and now the new Administration, that we continue to see the exciting
frontier that we have in our offshore be fully developed. I hope, indeed, we do
have the right approach to get where we need to go.
I look forward to future announcements from this minister and this government
concerning the activities in our offshore. I look forward, for example, to an
update on where we stand on a conversion in the St. Lawrence Basin - we won the
case last year - where we stand in regards to the conversion of the federal
permits to exploration licences and how we are advancing on that. I look forward
to what is being done -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time has expired.
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I look forward to what is being done in terms of efforts to move Hebron-Ben
Nevis forward, and I look forward to seeing our progress in negotiating a
settlement with Quebec in the Gulf of St. Lawrence so that we can proceed on
those very important frontiers as well.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am not sure why this government is following the pattern of the previous
government and persisting in calling these land sales when, in fact, the land is
not being sold at all. In fact, it is commitment to do exploration. This money
does not come to the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.
You know, I look forward to the time when we are actually selling this land,
Mr. Speaker, and we are actually getting a significant return on our investment.
In Terra Nova, for example, in 2003, one of the operators reported an operating
profit of $32.99 per barrel - per barrel - on the Terra Nova crude, eighty one
cents of which -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HARRIS: By leave, Mr. Speaker?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. HARRIS: - eighty-one cents of which comes in the form of royalties to
the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, the question that I have to ask is: Who is the principle
beneficiary of our offshore oil resources? We have some of the most profitable
oil in all of Canada. It is the oil companies who are the major beneficiaries,
Mr. Speaker, not the people of Newfoundland and Labrador or the Government of
Canada. When we start doing something about that, Mr. Speaker, I will have cause
for celebration.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to report on the tremendous response government has received to
the employee suggestion initiative.
On February 10, 2004, government advised our front-line workers that they
would have an opportunity to provide - anonymously - their ideas for savings,
efficiencies and modernizing of government operations. Government established a
toll-free telephone number and created a Web site through which employees could
submit suggestions.
Mr. Speaker, during the pre-Budget consultations, many participants urged
government to consult with those who directly deliver our programs and services.
We wanted to ensure that our front-line employees had a chance to participate in
the decision-making process as we prepared for program review and the Budget.
Without doubt, workers welcome the employee suggestion initiative. To date,
over 900 submissions, containing thousands of suggestions, have been received.
Employees have demonstrated a real concern for the fiscal affairs of our
Province and the provision of public services. The suggestions cover a diverse
range of topics. We have received input on the need to examine government
policies on cell phones, vehicle use, purchasing, travel, and human resource
management, to name just a few. Employees have also provided advice on
expenditure reduction options, workplace efficiency, improvements to services
for the public, and mechanisms to increase revenues.
I extend my thanks to all those who have taken the time to submit a
suggestion. It would be impossible to list every one, but I want to assure our
valued public service that we welcome their input. The toll-free line and
on-line form will remain in effect until the end of March 2004, and I encourage
employees to continue to forward suggestions to us.
Mr. Speaker, as stated in the Speech From the Throne, no government has all
the answers. Good government is about developing solutions through constructive
partnerships. I have instructed my officials to examine every suggestion and
those that are prudent will be considered for implementation.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to thank the hon. minister for providing me with a copy of the
statement. I would say today, I wonder how can the public servants of this
Province take the minister's words seriously? We are currently going through a
process where the Premier and the minister unilaterally announced a wage freeze
and pension reduction without consulting public servants, and now they expect
public servants to believe that their opinions will be valuable.
It is interesting that this toll-free line was put into service five days
after that infamous doom and gloom speech by our Premier and is now going to be
taken out on March 30, on the eve of the expiration of the public service
contract here in this Province.
I would suggest to the Minister of Finance, if you are going to put in a
proper suggestion line to hear employees ideas and concerns, that it be an
ongoing, not just a thirty-day wonder.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
When I walked into the House this afternoon I thought that the minister had
listened to a suggestion from an employee to turn off every second bulb in the
House of Assembly as an economy measure.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HARRIS: There are probably a lot of lights that went out in this
House of Assembly.
Seriously, Mr. Speaker, obviously employees have suggestions for
efficiencies. I want to caution the Minister of Finance not to get too caught up
in all this penney-pinching and savings because the Minister of Finance has an
obligation to ensure that funds are available to ensure that the basic dignity
of people in this Province are met. People on social assistance and income
support have needs that are not being met.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time has expired.
MR. HARRIS: There is need for houses, there is a need for services, and
that should be the kind of information that the minister is concentrating on,
not just saving a few dollars here and there.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Today, as everyone knows I think, is Budget Day in Ottawa, and we are
painfully aware that our Finance Minister for Newfoundland and Labrador has
already had some bad, disappointing news with respect to equalization, and we
share his sentiments with respect to that. We understand, as well, that our
Premier is taking a lead on the possibility of increased offshore revenues for
Newfoundland and Labrador. In light of the fact that in recent days the Finance
Minister for Canada has announced an extra $120 million in equalization payments
for his home Province of Saskatchewan, and the Prime Minister of Canada
yesterday, on the eve of the Budget, announced $1 billion for the cattle
industry - probably all good initiatives, probably the right thing to do - can
the Premier give us any update as to possible expectations with respect to
offshore oil revenue increases for Newfoundland and Labrador?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the Leader of the Opposition for that question. At this particular
point in time we have no firm commitments from the federal government.
As the Leader of the Opposition is well aware, we have been working
diligently over the last four to five months, four-and-a-half months basically,
to improve relationships with Ottawa, to build a relationship with the Prime
Minister, to build a relationship with all the federal ministers who have come
into the Province: Joe McGuire, Geoff Regan, Pierre Pettigrew, John Efford, and,
of course, the Prime Minister himself. We are trying to work on the basis of
collaboration and cooperation in order to achieve the goal, which is the
approach - a very simple, a very straightforward approach - which we put forward
to the federal government, and that is to obtain 100 per cent of the direct
revenues, the provincial revenues, from oil and gas. That is our goal.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we have publicly congratulated the Premier on his stand and wish
him every success in that particular approach. If we are not confident, Mr.
will have success on that front, even though other provinces have been given
successful outcomes in advance of the Budget, does the Premier, and can he tell
us whether or not he plans to try and seek an absolute firm, written commitment
from the Prime Minister of Canada prior to the next election if it is not in the
Budget today with respect to our rightful access to these offshore oil revenues?
Because, I can tell you, we will certainly support that approach.
MR. SPEAKER: I ask the hon. member to complete his question.
MR. GRIMES: Is the Premier going to try to take that as a next step if it
is not there today?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Again, Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. Leader of the
Opposition for that question.
As the members opposite are aware, I have spent a considerable amount of
time, as I said, over the last four-and-a-half months to build relationships
with Ottawa, with the Prime Minister and with the federal ministers. As well,
and equally important, we, as a government, felt it was important that I build
relationships with the other premiers in order to get them onside. I felt it was
very, very important that they are there with us so that we do not have a
situation - for example, if there had to be a constitutional amendment or some
other type of reform where some of the premiers were opposed to it. I
individually canvassed those premiers. Of course, I have worked with them behind
the scenes at the First Ministers' Conference, have talked with them about the
issues, have spoken with them, tried to convince them on our argument, and I am
proud to say that I have been very successful in obtaining the support of at
least eleven out of twelve.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to complete his answer.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As well, the only outstanding premier is Premier Bernard Lord, who has said
that he supports our goal to get 100 per cent of our revenues, even though he
has some issues for New Brunswick itself.
In addition, I have written the leaders - the candidates, actually - for the
Conservative Party. I also wrote the potential candidate for the Conservative
Party who happened to be the Leader of the NDP Party at the time. I am still
waiting for a response, but we do have that support. In answer to your question,
I will be asking the Prime Minister for his position on that.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I think we are all glad to have that particular answer. Again, rest assured,
you will have the support of the Official Opposition in all of these efforts.
Mr. Speaker, today as well, just to follow up on this issue with respect to
revenues for Newfoundland and Labrador, there is an announcement that the
Petro Canada. That is separate from the 8.5 per cent share in the Hibernia
project.
I am asking today, Mr. Speaker, does the Premier have any concern, now that
of its interest in offshore oil and gas, that we may be in danger of missing an
opportunity to get increased revenues for Newfoundland and Labrador from the 8.5
per cent of the Hibernia project as well? Because we do understand, Mr. Speaker,
that the Premier has said we are trying to get the 100 per cent of revenues
first -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. member now to conclude his question.
MR. GRIMES: - and we will get to the 8.5 per cent later. Hopefully, later
will not be too late.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I am concerned that we do not miss an opportunity with regard to
the 8.5 per cent of the Hibernia share. It is something that, of course, we
espoused when we were in Opposition. It is something that is very important. We
feel that if we have an ownership, at least a stake, in the offshore oil and
gas, similar to other countries that actually have equity ownership in their
offshore oil and gas, we feel that is important for the future of the Province.
I have made representation to the Prime Minister personally, when I had my
first meeting with him in December. I was fortunate enough to be the first
Premier who had a meeting with the Prime Minister. At that time, I did speak to
him about the 100 per cent ownership. I spoke to him about the 8.5 per cent
ownership on Hibernia. I spoke to him about custodial management. I spoke to him
about 5-Wing Goose, and I spoke to him about the Lower Churchill.
My only concern, I say to the Leader of the Opposition, is that when I met
with him I had a shopping list. Of course, as the Leader of the Opposition is
aware, we do not want to go in all the time asking for everything, but every
time I have spoken with him on offshore oil and gas -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to complete his answer.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
- I have actually mentioned the 8.5 per cent interest.
What I can tell the hon. Leader of the Opposition, though, is that we have
been fortunate. We have gotten a solution for 5-Wing Goose, which I am very
proud of, in conjunction with the Member for Lake Melville.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: As well, we already have an indication on custodial
management that attempts are now being made for greater surveillance and
security in our offshore with regard to our fishery, so that is an advance. I
have an indication from the Prime Minister that he considers the Lower Churchill
project to be very, very important. We do have an indication - Mr. Goodale has
even indicated in the House, I think, as recently as last week - that we will
have an answer on the 100 per cent solution for our revenues, and Hibernia is
still in the top five of that list.
These are all there, they are all foremost. Again, I am always concerned
about any issues, of course, that are important to the Province, but we are
keeping them in his face.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, actually I would like to ask a different question, on another
topic, of the Premier as well.
The Premier, Mr. Speaker, has repeatedly said that he will not negotiate in
public, and he told the pensioners outside a local hotel that he could not talk
about their issue any further, because that would be negotiating in public. Yet,
he announced a wage freeze, which is important in negotiations, publicly,
without any consultation even with his own Cabinet and caucus. He walked into a
hotel and threatened 2,000 layoffs, if people did not accept a wage freeze - a
public statement - and yesterday, after saying in this House that he would not
negotiate publicly, he told the media outside, the biggest threat of all
negotiations, that he would not rule out legislating workers back to work if he
had to; which is, I think, negotiating in public.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. member to now complete his question.
MR. GRIMES: I ask the Premier, Mr. Speaker: Does he see any conflict and
any contradiction in any of his public statements and his repeated commitment to
not bargain in public?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: I knew it was too good to be true, Mr. Speaker. It was
going too well.
Mr. Speaker, my first response is, this was a question that was asked to me
in a scrum yesterday, and I responded to that question. What I indicated was
that we are trying to seek a solution. We are trying to put an end to this
strike. This government does not want a strike at the end of this month. We are
going to bargain at the table, to try to reach a solution to this problem.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: I was then pressed on the question of legislation,
pressed on two specific occasions. What I did indicate to the press is that, as
leader of the Province, we have to keep all our options open, and health and
public safety are the primary concern, so that is an option which I could not
preclude.
If I may have a second, Mr. Speaker, I will use the words of the former
Premier on three separate occasions, when he was in government as a minister and
also when he was Premier of the Province.
On a CBC Morning Show: Premier Roger Grimes said he will consider using
legislation to get some striking workers back to their jobs, if the health care
system shows signs that it cannot cope. April 4, 2001 -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to complete his answer.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Because we have to understand and believe that these
19,000 workers are very valuable, and that it is more difficult to provide
services without them than it is with them, then at some point we might need
them back and we might have to legislate, but we are not contemplating it today.
A final quote, November 7, 1997: We promised teachers we would not legislate
a change, that we wanted to negotiate a change, but if they are now saying flat
out that we will not negotiate this issue, then we will have to re-examine
whether or not it is in the best interest of everybody in the Province,
including the teachers and all of the other taxpayers, that we might have to
legislate some changes.
Those are the words of the Leader of the Opposition - hypocritical!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am shattered by the fierce personal attack on my character and integrity.
Mr. Speaker, it is not about the past. I said yesterday, and I have said
before, and let me say it again, Mr. Speaker, the fact -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!
MR. GRIMES: You can tell when we are getting close to the sensitive
matters, Mr. Speaker; the catcalls start again.
Mr. Speaker, the people of the Province, we understand, have made a judgement
about the past and they voted for a new approach. Which of the new approaches is
here, the commitment made when the current Premier was the Leader of the
Opposition that he would not use legislation like former Liberal governments
have done, or the one now where he walks out faced with a possible strike, that
if there is one that he would have caused it single-handedly, Mr. Speaker. Now
he is saying: If I have caused it, because I have bungled the whole thing from
day one, then I might legislate them back to work, even though I promised them
that I would not.
Which Premier is here today, the one who makes the commitments or the one who
breaks the commitments? Mr. Speaker, that is what the people need to know.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: If you want to talk about broken commitments, Mr.
Speaker, here is a commitment that the hon. gentleman made to the people of this
Province. He was over here and he was talking about being over there. December
8, 1999, "...if I were over there; and I will remind them again that I am
never going over there."
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: There is a little more, Mr. Speaker. "I may end up
not being over here, but I will not be over there. You can rest assured of
that." That was the commitment made by the hon. Leader of the Opposition.
MR. SPEAKER: I ask the Premier now to complete his answer.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Now, having said that, Mr. Speaker, I would ask the
hon. Leader of the Opposition that, if he is going to recite or make reference
to a speech that I made to NAPE a couple of years ago, that he take it in the
clear context in which it was given. When I talked about any question on
collective agreements I talked about dealing with collective agreements that
were actually in existence, in the middle of a collective agreement. If he would
read them - we don't have the luxury of time for me to read these two
paragraphs today. If he wants to read this, these paragraphs are available for
the media and anybody else who wants to read them.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the Premier now to complete his answer.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: They were taken in the context of collective agreements
that were in existence, so don't put words in my mouth, Leader of the
Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am wilting under the barrage and the attack. Not only now is there a
personal attack but I am being threatened, as we stand here in the people's
House, Mr. Speaker.
Anyway, it shows how serious this issue is taken by the current day Premier
with the new approach. He would rather talk about the past and political banter
than talk about being ten days away from potentially the biggest strike in the
history of the Province, the biggest disruption of services which, if it happens
- mark it down - he will have caused single-handedly.
Mr. Speaker, last question: The circumstance has been so bad since the
exaggerated statements of the Premier on January 5, the statements about the
billion dollars that he has to pay to the bank, that has been denied by his own
Finance Minister, denied and refuted by the Canadian Centre for Policy
Alternatives, absolutely refuted as being a false statement - he made it to the
people of the Province, so bad in talking about not bargaining in public and
then doing it that the media blackout that normally accompanies these talks -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member now to complete his question.
MR. GRIMES: Yes, Mr. Speaker.
The media blackout that would normally accompany these talks is not in place
because the unions don't trust the Premier of the Province. Would he consider
trying to salvage the people from a disruptive strike by putting a media
blackout on himself for the sake of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Consistent with my answer to the first question that he asked me in this
House, I will give him a simple answer. The answer is no.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My questions today, Mr. Speaker, are for the hon. Minister of Health and
Community Services.
Mr. Speaker, it is becoming obvious that this minister has her own blueprint
for health care. One that reflects the right-wing conservative politics of her
government and one that falls in line with Stephen Harper's two-tier health
care system. The leader whom she just supported nationally.
Now, Mr. Speaker, we do not know all the details that could be in this
minister's blueprint for health care but I want to ask the minister today: Is
it true that she has given direction to look at a user fee pay system of health
care in this Province?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Hon. members, this government is committed to accessible, high-quality health
care for all the residents of this Province. Any other information regarding
what this government plans to do will be disclosed during the Budget process.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, the minister is not denying that indeed she has
asked the Hay group to look at revenue opportunities that can be created in the
Western and Grenfell Board areas, for example, user pay system. The minister is
not denying that?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I indicated to the hon. member, any information regarding either
expenditures or revenues for the health care system will be disclosed during the
Budget.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'anse au Clair, final
supplementary.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We have established in this House that a user fee system is being considered.
We have established that, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: We have established, Mr. Speaker, that in the blueprint on
health care by this government that they are looking at user fees.
I am going to ask the minister now: Can the minister tell me today what
services that she intends to charge the people of this Province for? Will it be
laboratory services? Will it be diagnostic services? Will it be surgical
services? Can the minister disclose that today?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: The hon. member will find out when the Budget is tabled
in the House of Assembly.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JOYCE: My question today is also for the Minister of Health and
Community Services.
Mr. Speaker, in the Corner Brook, Bay of Islands, West Coast Region, the
long-term care facility is a number one priority for all residents in our area.
The documentation to support this facility is well maintained in the Western
Region from the Premier, from the Minster of Justice, and myself.
Mr. Speaker, the minister met with the Health Care Corporation on November
24. The minutes from the meeting stated: She noted that the department would not
know the long-term care facility ranks in the provincial needs until the
financial audit is complete. I ask the minister, now that the financial audit is
complete, and this government is supposed to be open and transparent, would the
minister inform the residents of the West Coast if this facility is on the list
of priorities, where it ranks on this list, and will the minister release this
list?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Yes, Mr. Speaker, I have spent quite a bit of time going around the Province
and hearing from the different health care boards as to what their priorities
should be in the area of long-term care, and we will be disclosing our
priorities during the Budget process.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: On a supplementary, the hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JOYCE: Mr. Speaker, I would just like to inform the minister -
because, as we know, the Premier does not trust a lot of his Cabinet ministers
and backbenchers - that the Premier already said it is the number one priority
for this government.
Will the minister release that report to confirm to the residents the same
thing that the Premier has already stated on the West Coast, that the long-term
care facility is the number one priority for health care in this Province? Will
the minister please release this report?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Premier.
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
First of all, let me tell the Member for Bay of Islands that I trust all the
members on this side of the House.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Let me also tell him that I resent his comment.
Secondly, we have already indicated time and time and time again to the
people on the West Coast, to the people of Corner Brook, that the long-term
health care facility for that particular region is a high prioity for this
government.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: On a final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Bay of
Island.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the Premier, if he trusts his backbenchers, why don't he tell the
CBC what he told them before, that he could not leak it out about the freeze on
the wages because he did not want to leak it. He only had to tell his P&P.
Mr. Speaker, if health care is such a priority for the West Coast and the
Corner Brook area, the MRI - the Western Health Care Corporation has brought to
the minister's attention the need to start renovations for the MRI. The
Premier has stated on local television he did not know that it needed any
renovations. I guess he thought it was going to be set up in the parking lot
somewhere.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the member now to complete his question.
MR. JOYCE: The Minister of Justice has stated that there is no money
available. I say to the minister, now that there is $32 million brought down
since the Premier's statement, since the Minister's of Justice statement -
MR. SPEAKER: I am asking the member to finish his question.
MR. JOYCE: - will the minister now please go ahead and stop the wait
list, stop having people from the West Coast travel to St. John's, and give
permission to start renovations for the MRI?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Where have all of you been for the last fifteen years? How can you stand over
there and say what we are doing?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: We are here four-and-a-half months. Give us a break
with regard to the MRI. The Member for Bay of Islands knows that there is a
commitment on the MRI. Don't question me on whether I knew about that or not.
I had no idea that there wasn't any space available. I can tell you that I did
not know.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER WILLIAMS: I did not know. I can only tell you from my own
experience. It was brought to my attention by the officials from the Western
Health Care Corporation. That was the first time it was brought to my attention.
But, having said that, there will be an MRI and space will be made available. I
can only say it ten, fifteen, twenty, twenty-five times; twenty-six. It will be
there and it will be (inaudible).
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question today is for the Minister of Education concerning a decision by
the Labrador School Board to stop offering the early French Immersion Program in
2005. This program has been extremely successful, Mr. Speaker. The 2004
Kindergarten enrollment for Labrador shows that approximately 54 per cent of
enrollment is for the French Immersion Program in locations where it is offered.
of 50 per cent of high school graduates being bilingual by 2013. It is also
ironic that this decision is being made in the year that this Province is
celebrating 500 years of French history within our Province.
I want to ask the minister: Will he insist that the French Immersion Program
in Labrador not be axed in 2005, the early immersion program?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The issue that is raised by my hon. friend opposite is an important one, and
I have had discussions with personnel of the Labrador School Board. In fact,
only yesterday a representation of parents and interested residents of Labrador
West met with senior officials with our department, and as recently as several
days ago we met with the organization known as Canadian Parents for French. It
is an important issue. We will be monitoring it very closely, keeping in mind
however that a decision such as this ultimately is a decision of the school
board. However, it is an important issue and we will monitor it closely.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the minister, according to the 2003 Estimates this program is fully
funded and recouped from the federal government. I say to the minister also that
it should not be up to the school board. It should be a decision of the
Department of Education who ultimately is responsible for delivering education
in this Province. So, I say to the minister: If, in his opinion, it is a
decision that the school board has a right to make, will he bring forward
appropriate legislation to make the necessary changes so that his department can
control the education process in this Province?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I have to correct the hon. member on one point that he has made; the program
is not fully funded. We do receive funding for bursaries, for in-service and for
other curricular materials; however, the Province remains responsible for the
placement of teachers and the costing of teachers and the cost of textbooks, so
it is not fully funded, but I can assure the hon. member that we are doing
something presently to deal with this very important issue, very important for
the residents and the students and the parents in Labrador. That is, we are
presently engaged with the federal Department of Canadian Heritage. We have an
application in at present, seeking further funding and further resources which
hopefully will go some way, maybe a long way, to deal with this very pressing
issue.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I say to the minister, that is well and fine but, at the end, when all is
said and done, if the decision of the school board is not to reverse the
decision they have made, will you and your government step in and change it?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, we will do, as a government, what is right
now within our means to do. We must abide by the Schools Act of 1997, which
clearly states that this particular issue, namely the implementation of
programming, is within the purview and the jurisdiction of a school board; but I
will assure the member, as I indicated earlier, we will do what is possible,
particularly dealing with our federal counterparts and the Department of
Canadian Heritage, to seek funding that will address this very relevant and
important issue for the residents of Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The time for Oral Questions has ended.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Today I table the 2002-2003 Annual Report of the Public Service Commission.
Also, Mr. Speaker, I table The Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund Annual
Report of the Board of Management, for tabling here in the House.
Thank you.
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition on behalf of the residents of Rose
Blanche-Harbour Le Cou, which is in the District of Burgeo & LaPoile, on the
Southwest Coast, located approximately thirty miles from Port aux Basques and,
of course, within my district.
I am very pleased and honoured to do this, Mr. Speaker, and it relates to the
health care situation that we are about to, we think, face on the West Coast of
Newfoundland. I will read the prayer.
The petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS the Department of Health and Community Services of the Government of
Newfoundland and Labrador is responsible for the funding and administration of
the health care system in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador; and
WHEREAS the Western Health Care Corporation is responsible for the delivery
prescribed by the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador Department of Health
and Community Services; and
WHEREAS the Department of Health and Community Services requested of the
Western Health Care Corporation on December 29, 2003, that a report be compiled
and options presented so as to save the Western Health Care Corporation the sum
of $3 million prior to the conclusion of the fiscal year 2003-2004; and
WHEREAS the Western Health Care Corporation did reply to the request of the
Department of Health and Community Services on or about February 9, 2004; and
WHEREAS the reply to the Department of Health and Community Services by the
Western Health Care Corporation, apparently, did include a recommendation that a
number of clinics within the jurisdiction covered by the Western Health Care
Corporation would be eliminated; and
WHEREAS one of the clinics to be eliminated pursuant to the response of the
Western Health Care Corporation to the Department of Health and Community
Services is situate within the Community of Rose Blanche-Harbour Le Cou; and
WHEREAS the residents of Rose Blanche-Harbour Le Cou are opposed to the
closure of the heath care clinic in their community;
WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the
House of Assembly to support the residents of Rose Blanche-Harbour Le Cou in
their request to have the clinic in the Town of Rose Blanche-Harbour Le Cou
remain open; and
As duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
It is dated March 18, Mr. Speaker, and that is from the residents of Rose
Blanche-Harbour Le Cou. I guess it shows the seriousness of their concerns. It
is signed by approximately forty people. I understand, indeed, that the
community is totally up in arms and that there are numbers of these petitions en
route to the House of Assembly here to be presented. It shows, I guess, the
concern of these residents, that they have it tough enough as it is with their
lacking infrastructures road-wise and so on, but one of the crucial things in
their lives, of course, is to have access to health care facilities.
They have had this clinic for years and years. The doctors travel from Port
aux Basques down to the clinic on a regular basis every two weeks or so, and the
public health nurse and so on, and they have a place to go. These people cannot
all afford to go to the nearest center, which would be in Port aux Basques, so
they are very concerned about ensuring that their clinic remain as is.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time has expired.
MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I file this on behalf of the people of Rose Blanche-Harbour Le Cou.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition to the House of Assembly. It is from
residents from Western Newfoundland. It reads:
The petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:
WHEREAS the government of this Province in its capacity as funding agency for
Western Health Care Corporation - hereinafter referred to as the Corporation -
has directed the Corporation to recover its deficit and cut its current
expenditures by 10 per cent; and
WHEREAS the Corporation has proposed to accomplish this by eliminating rural
medical clinics, obstetrical and surgical services and sustainability reducing
laboratory services at Sir Thomas Roddick Hospital in Stephenville;
THEREFORE let it be know that your petitioners request that the Government of
Newfoundland and Labrador direct the Corporation to maintain obstetrical,
surgical and laboratory services at the Sir Thomas Roddick Hospital at current
levels and provide the Corporation with any additional funding necessary to
maintain such services.
And as in duty bound you petitioners will every pray.
Mr. Speaker, this petition has been circulated on the West Coast of our
Province in the last week or so in response to fear that people are expressing
over media articles, over reports and over directives that have been issued by
this government through the Minister of Health to the particular boards.
Mr. Speaker, I understand that the Member for Stephenville East attended a
meeting in Stephenville with over 800 people just a few nights ago, and I also
understand that she was presented a petition similar to this with approximately
10,000 signatures on it, to be delivered to the House of Assembly. I look
forward to the Member for Stephenville East getting up to present that petition,
similar to the one I am presenting today, with the 10,000 signatures on it from
Western Newfoundland, from the Stephenville area, her constituency.
It is quite obvious that the people in Stephenville, Mr. Speaker, have
lobbied for years to get improved health care services in their particular
region. We have invested more than $35 million - and I make no apology for it, I
say to the Member for Trinity North, no apologies for $35 million being invested
in Stephenville for a new hospital, a new hospital that opened only in the last
year, opened its doors only to find out that there is a directive to the board
in that area that you have to look at where you are going to make the savings;
you are going to have to look at how you will reduce services to reduce costs.
This is what the people in the Stephenville area have been faced with, and
the surrounding area, all the small communities in that area that members
opposite represent. I was looking in the paper today and the residents of
Hampton are right now faced with the fact that they may end up seeing their
clinic close as a result of this directive. This is the -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time has expired.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I will continue with this, as I have other petitions, in further days.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition containing approximately 1,000 names,
residents of Labrador West who are calling on the House of Assembly to petition
the government to proceed without delay with the planning and construction of a
new health care facility in Labrador West as the most cost-effective approach in
the long term to provide the necessary health care facility.
Mr. Speaker, the Captain William Jackman Memorial Hospital in Labrador West
was constructed in 1964 or 1965 and is approximately forty years old. This
hospital is in desperate need of being replaced. Money has been spent on the
upgrade of that hospital over a number of years, but it has gone to the point
where it is much more cost effective to provide the area with a new hospital
facility rather than keep throwing good money after bad.
Mr. Speaker, that hospital, if someone were to walk in there - and I know the
Premier walked through that hospital during the election, and I am sure he is
aware of the condition that I am speaking about. There are chunks of plaster
hanging off the walls. There are sections of that hospital where if you were to
work there, you would cook because the temperature is that warm, and there are
other areas of that hospital, Mr. Speaker, where you would freeze to death. You
can see windows that were put in, not too many years ago, cinched with tissue
and paper towels to keep the draft out. This is where patients, who are already
sick, are staying. So there is no question about the need for a new physical
facility for the residents of Labrador West.
This government has promised that they are committed to health care. Well,
one of the things we have to have - we can have the doctors, we can have the
nurses, and we can have all the other expertise, but we need a decent facility
for them to operate in. That is the basis of this petition, Mr. Speaker, to call
on government to build into the Budget a plan to establish a new health care
facility for the residents of Labrador West.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I move that the hon. Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board,
Motion 1, to move that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole on
Supply to consider certain resolutions for granting Interim Supply to Her
Majesty, Bill 2.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, I wish to inform the House that I have
received a message from His Honour the Lieutenant-Governor.
MR. SPEAKER: To the hon. the Minister of Finance.
As Lieutenant-Governor of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, I
transmit a request to appropriate sums required for the public service of the
Province for the year ending 31 March 2005 by way of Interim Supply, and in
accordance with the provisions of sections 54 and 90 of the Constitution Act
1867, I recommend this request to the House of Assembly.
Signed _______________________________
Edward Roberts, Lieutenant-Governor.
The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: Mr. Speaker, I move that the message, together with a bill,
be referred to a Committee of Supply.
MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that the message, together with a bill, be
referred to the Committee of Supply.
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye!
MR. SPEAKER: Those against.
Carried.
On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of Supply, Mr.
Speaker left the Chair.
Committee of the Whole on Supply
CHAIR (Fitzgerald): Order , please!
Bill 2, "An Act For Granting To Her Majesty Certain Sums Of Money For
Defraying Certain Expenses Of The Public Service For The Financial Year Ending
March 31, 2005 And For Other Purposes Relating To The Public Service."
Resolution
"That it is expedient to introduce a measure to provide for the granting
to Her Majesty for defraying certain expenses of the public service for the
financial year ending March 31, 2005 the sum of $1,287,423,900."
The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The bill today is asking for approval of the House for the amount just
mentioned by Mr. Chairman of roughly $1,287 billion. It is to enable government
to carry on its business of meeting its commitments in salaries, expenses, and
all other public services for a period of approximately three months until the
main supply bill, the Budget amount for the balance is approved and enable
government to operate.
In other words, the purpose of this bill, Mr. Chairman, is to enable payrolls
to be met, income support payments to be made, necessary operations of
government buildings and services, necessary payment of its employees within all
aspects of government, to meet other commitments that are ongoing from year to
year, to allow these to be made.
Here in the
schedule attached to the bill it spells out the amount for each
specific department. I do not intend to elaborate on any of these in detail.
They are there, it is a standard, basic procedure to allow us to be able to
carry on the business while the Budget is being tabled and debated here in the
House.
We do want to mention that some of these items generally reflect
approximately 25 per cent, 30 per cent of the year because we are asking for
approval to spend for the first three months. Basically, for the months of
April, May and June until a Budget is brought down and approval given -
hopefully some time in April or May when the Budget is finally approved.
In some instances there are allocations made to be able to put forward for
more than a quarter because certain departmental expenditures require up-front
payments in some areas that need to be met. For cashflow purposes each
department has been looked at based on traditional patterns and trends and on
basic commitments. It is not for any new expenditures. New program areas would
not be normally covered in Interim Supply. This is basically to carry on with
ongoing basic programs until we can have a Budget approved.
I am not going to belabour it, Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to say that I am
certainly prepared to answer any particular questions pertaining to that, on
Interim Supply and I am sure the ministers in their respective departments. It
is very simple, very straightforward. If your department needs $1 million in
salaries, there is allocation here for roughly one-quarter of that. If you need
to spend $2 million on another item there is an allocation here for roughly
one-quarter, 30 per cent of that. So each is done on an item basis in your
budget so the necessary money is there to be able to carry on operations.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I will conclude my comments for now, unless during
the course of debate on this particular bill that questions arise which people
would like me to answer.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
It is my pleasure today to rise and respond to the Minister of Finance and
President of Treasury Board on his first bill to this House, Bill 2, Interim
Supply.
I am very familiar with Interim Supply, and it is interesting how much
difference a few months make. It was only last year that the current Minister of
Finance and President of the Treasury Board stood in this House and said: You
know, I think this bill should provide more details as to expenditures.
The first thing he said today, when he got on his feet, was that we are
following the standard procedures. I thought you were going to be a new
government, with a new approach. You have no details, one heading.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible)
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: For the TV viewing audience, it is interesting that they
cannot pick up on what the Minister of Finance said. What he said was, how silly
he was to have suggested that.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) how silly you are.
MS THISTLE: My goodness, what a difference a few months makes.
What we see here in Bill 2, Mr. Chairman, we are looking at almost $1.3
billion of the Budget, the upcoming Budget. It is amazing. We have one heading
for each department as such. The biggest heading of all goes to the Premier of
the Province, his department, Health and Community Services. Five hundred and
fifty-seven million goes to the Premier. That is very interesting, you know.
Five hundred and fifty-seven million goes to the Premier. He is going to look
after the entire health care budget. We saw that today in Question Period.
The people of the Province are very concerned, very concerned.
MR. SULLIVAN: A point of order, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIR: On a point of order, the hon. the Minister of Finance and
President of Treasury Board.
MR. SULLIVAN: On a point of order, Mr. Chairman.
The member opposite indicated that over $500 million is going to the Premier's
Office. That is not correct. If the member looked here, she would see that the
Premier's Office, that comes under Executive Council, has only $11 million. If
you look at the Department of Business, it has only $100,000. I do not know
where she is manufacturing the number there. I would like for her to explain it,
because it is not under his area.
Under the Department of Health and Community Services, it is $557,907,700. If
she has a question, Mr. Chairman, I will only be too delighted to answer the
question on any aspects under my department and the ministers on theirs. I do
not know what she is talking about. She has not even got the facts straight on
it. She cannot even read the figures from what we presented, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIR: There is no point of order.
The hon. the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans.
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
It appears that the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board was
the referee today in Question Period. He was sitting between the Minister of
Health and Community Services and the Premier, trying to direct who was going to
take the questions; but, you know, the Premier won out.
The Premier's Department of Health and Community Services will spend $557
million in the first quarter of the upcoming Budget. When I saw this Tory Blue
Book - oh no, it is the Tory blueprint now, it is not the Tory Blue Book - we
can easily associate that $557 million with the Premier's department because
this is all about a dictator. He said: This plan is my vision.
This plan is my vision of where I want to lead the Province over the next
four to eight years. None of you people - you are not included, it is my vision.
My vision!
His vision came forward today when he was questioned by members on this side
of the House asking for updates on their particular health care concerns in
their districts. Did he let the Minister of Health and Community Services answer
the question? No, he did not.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MS THISTLE: Yes, I would say her questions are finished and her answers
are finished. I would say she is absent right now from this House, and I wonder
why.
MR. E. BYRNE: A point of order, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIR: On a point of order, the hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Chairman, the Member for Grand Falls-Buchans has been
around long enough to understand a few basic rules in the House of Assembly.
First of all, Question Period is provided in our parliamentary system so the
Opposition may have an opportunity to hold the government to account. We support
that, and we will always support it; however, while it is up to them to ask a
question, it is up to government who responds to the question, first and
foremost.
Secondly, Mr. Chairperson, it is unparliamentary from time immemorial for a
member to refer to the absence of another member in this House. I ask you, Mr.
Chairman, to enforce the rule and let the hon. member know that - look, any
information that members opposite are looking for, we intend to provide today to
the best of our ability. Whatever questions you have, that is what we are in
Committee for, Mr. Chairperson, waiting to hear a question on what expenditure
is this for and what is that for, but it is not parliamentary to refer to a
member who is not present in the House just at this point in time.
CHAIR: Order, please!
The hon. Government House Leader is certainly correct. The Chair did hear the
Member for Grand Falls-Buchans state the word dictator, and it is certainly not
acceptable in the democracy that we live in and it is certainly not showing
respect to other members of this House, so I ask the member to withdraw that
statement.
MS THISTLE: Mr. Chairman, I regrettably say that was certainly out of
order. I do apologize and I withdraw that statement.
Now, Mr. Chairman, with reference to Bill 2, I guess what we are hearing
today is that the Minister of Finance, the President of Treasury Board, is
asking us for authorization so he can write a blank cheque for $1.3 billion. For
$1.3 billion, he wants to write a blank cheque. He has no details but he is
saying, trust me. Trust me.
Mr. Chairman, I must say I am somewhat suspicious of the intentions of this
government when I look at their record to date; somewhat suspicious. Number one,
this new government and their new approach should add a new word to their
vocabulary, and it is called justification. They wanted to justify wage freeze,
taking back $5 a month from pensioners, cutting the guts out of our health care
system, just a few things to start with. So, what did they do? They said: Well,
you know, we just cannot come out and make a wild statement. We have to have the
goods. So, they commissioned an external review of the Province's fiscal
situation. Can you imagine? This company that they hired was
PricewaterhouseCoopers, led by the infamous Michael Gourley, once pokeroo for
Ontario television and strong ties to the Tory Party. He came out with a report
that did not measure up to what they wanted to do so they said: Go back Michael
Gourley and work into the night and bring us back a report that we want. He did
that, and guess what? He found out that the Department of Finance and Treasury
Board officials were right all along. Every one of those officials did a good
job, and I knew we had good people working for us in government. So, when
everything else fitted perfectly, he said: What else can we do? So, they hunted
around and said: Oh, bright idea. A light came on, but it is not on here today.
A light came on and they said: Guess what? We will try and put through the
student loan portfolio now before the end of March. If we put through the
student loan portfolio before the end of March, it will look like the other
crowd had the big deficit and we are going to start off fresh and clean. That is
what they said. So, they started in and this is what they did.
You know something? Here we are here today - and Question Period is a good
idea of what we can expect from a new government. Yesterday we had round one, I
guess, and round one told us exactly what this government is trying to do to our
health care system in this Province that we value and cherish so much.
We had two members from our side today stand on their feet, the Member for
Burgeo & LaPoile and Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair. They represent rural
districts, and everybody on this side of the House represents rural districts. I
do not know if anybody ever stopped and thought about that, but the twelve
members of the Official Opposition represent rural districts. I guess I would
probably be the one that is most urban. I have urban and rural, but for the most
part it is rural Newfoundland that is represented on this side of the House. I
would also say to members of the House of Assembly, look at the Cabinet makeup
here in this House when it comes to making major decisions that affect the
livelihood of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. I would have to say, no, not
Labradorians. We do not have a member of the Cabinet from Labrador. Most of the
people in Cabinet are from St. John's, who don't need to harness their belts
or sit in their seats or dig in their heels when the Budget comes down. None of
their constituents are going to be affected. Anyone who lives in St. John's
has every service you can imagine. They don't need to call up their MHA to get
anything done, they can call government, government is right here.
If you are out in rural Newfoundland and you have to see a doctor or get any
kind of service done now, and those rural clinics are threatened to be closed,
sure, my goodness, you would be frightened to death, wouldn't you? You would
be frightened to death because that is the only link for people, and the things
they cherish so much are their health care and medical.
All we have heard so far from this government is that they are going to cut
the guts out of health care. The Minister of Health and Community Services has
gotten up on her feet many times in the past couple of days and we were hopeful,
as an Opposition representing the people of this Province and their concerns,
that she would give us something concrete so that we could come back and allay
the fears of the people who are calling us on a day-to-day basis, wondering how
in the world they are going to access medical services if rural clinics are
going to be closed and even new hospital downgraded.
You know, the previous administration, which I was a part of, was proud of
having a social conscience, very proud of having a social conscience. Many times
we had to wrangle about whether or not we would do a certain thing for a certain
area. I know the Member for Gander is really glad that we, as a government,
invested $65 million into Gander hospital. All of these were huge decisions that
we had to make on our part. I don't think any of us will ever be ashamed to
stand and say that we did it in the interest of people. If you have a social
conscience when you are a government you will never go wrong. You can relate it
to the fact that if you have a sickness in your family you would be willing to
mortgage your home to get that child or family member looked after. We did the
same thing as a previous government.
When the federal government decided to cut our health care budget the demands
from people around this Province did not stop. I have often said this in the
House of Assembly, when I have stood before, that we have been accused in the
past of one-time spending. All of that one-time spending has gone into health
care. We had many new initiatives started by the previous administration that
are now currently in jeopardy. We hear it everyday with phone calls. It is not
easy to say no when you have someone coming to you that needs medical attention.
When a health care budget goes from $900 million to $1.5 billion in a matter
of four or five years and the federal government does not put in the money, you
can easily see why you would have a deficit.
CHAIR: Order, please!
I remind the member that her time has expired.
MS THISTLE: Just by leave for one moment.
CHAIR: Does the member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MS THISTLE: I thank you and I appreciate the extra time that you are
giving me. We are on a very important topic, and that is the topic of how well
this new government spends the people's money in anticipation of the budget
that will approve the spending.
I would say, in conclusion, to my colleagues in the House of Assembly, the
most important questions that are on the minds of people in this Province is
health care spending. I would like to ensure that when I walk away from here
today and get down from the speaker, that I want to know that decisions will be
made in the best interest of all the people in this Province and not one
particular district like we saw demonstrated here today by the Premier.
Thank you.
CHAIR: Order, please!
The Chair recognizes the hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
It is interesting, I listened intently to the member's commentary and most
of it was focused in on health care. This being a financial bill the debate has
wide latitude. We can talk about anything really that government spends, or any
issue with respect to this bill because it asks the House of Assembly to approve
a certain amount of money, Interim Supply, so that by the end of the fiscal
year, which is March 31, we can continue to plow roads if necessary, pay
doctors, insure social services payments are made, and basically the functions
of government.
Mr. Chairman, I am really interested, and I was interested to hear the member's
commentary about health care in particular. Do you know that last year while
this member was a part of the Cabinet, under direction from the former premier,
went to health care boards themselves and looked for a certain percentage? Do
you know that they went through an exercise last year as a Cabinet where they
said: What would be the impact of 5 per cent, 10 per cent, 15 per cent or 20 per
cent reduction in health care? This member was in the Cabinet. They went through
that very exercise. Not only that, and I am going to take every opportunity that
is available to me as a Member in this House to remind the Opposition of what,
not only they did, but what they failed to do over a fourteen year period. We
have been here five months. Trust me, it will take us another six to clean it up
but we will intend to do exactly that, Mr. Chairman.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Back to the point, that this member was part of a Cabinet,
not so long ago, that asked health care boards for exactly the same thing as
part of a budget exercise. The Leader of the Opposition stood in his place in
this Assembly in 1998 or 1999 - I forget the exact year but my memory is fairly
good. Actually, he was sitting right there, and do you know what he said as
Minister of Health? That if the health care boards do not get their deficits
under control - and I will quote it for members opposite - that it will spell
financial disaster for Newfoundland and Labrador. That is what he said when he
was Minister of Health; I think it was in 1998 or 1999. That if health care
boards - and he was speaking, by the way, on behalf of the entire government of
which the member, who is now the Finance critic, was a member of the Cabinet and
a minister of the Crown - do not get their deficits under control it will spell
financial disaster for Newfoundland and Labrador.
Now I know it is an unusual practice, and members opposite have seen an
unusual practice in Question Period over the last couple of days. Do you know
what it is? They are asking a question, they are getting an answer, and they do
not like the answer. But it happens to be the true one. It happens to be the
truthful answer.
The former minister also knows, and without hesitation I can say this: She
and all members on that side of the House understand that those decisions or
questions they are asking today will be revealed when the Budget is announced,
and the Minister of Finance announces the Budget. Now that is the process.
People understand that financial markets could be impacted if it is not done
that way. People who are advising us as a new government advised you as a
government, and you understand that. So it lacks inherent creditability when you
hear members opposite stand up and talk about what we are going to do by
dismantling health care. Seriously, do you think, or does anybody think for one
moment that there is a member on this side of the House whose only intention, as
the Leader of the Opposition and members opposite said, that we had some
preconceived well-articulated plan that we did not talk about during the
election because everyone of us over here were part of some conspiracy that we
are going to go in and dismantle health care services to people in the Province.
Now how out to lunch or ludricious is that assertion What an assumption to make!
The fact of the matter is this, when you talk about spending. You will not
see members of this government or ministers of this Cabinet go on
round-the-world tours to visit schools and spend $40,000 to $50,000 in so doing.
You will not see members of this government do that, but what you will see are
members of this government doing the absolute best that we can, delivering the
best service that we can on behalf of people, and ensuring that for every dollar
that is spent on the service that people deserve, they are getting a dollars
worth, not 50 cents worth, not 60 cents worth, but they are getting their
dollars worth.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: That is what we intend to do. Yes, we have some financial
difficulties and troubles in front of us right now, but those are ones that we
will deal with effectively. We will deal with them efficiently, but we will deal
with them always with people in mind because that is what we were elected to do.
We are not some group of people, a bunch of financial crusaders, whose only job
in this House is to reach the bottom line. It is not what we are about. It is a
reality that we have to deal with; it is a fact that we have to deal with; it is
an absolute truth that we have to deal with. In fact, it is self-evident,
because I would rather run the affairs of this Province than let the Bond Rating
Agencies in New York run them and go back to a situation like we were in seventy
years ago, when as a people we had to give it up because we could not
financially take care of ourselves. If that decision is before members of this
House, that we decide as a group of people representing the public that we are
going to take control of our affairs and not let bondholders like Standard &
Poor's or Moody's dictate to what we have to do, than I am going to tell
you, and I believe all of us are committed to this, that I think in our own
private moments we would all have to agree that yes, we would rather ensure that
we can control the future of the Province as opposed to some bond rating agency.
Those are serious situations. Members opposite also know.
I remember being in the House congratulating the former government when we
received an increase in our credit rating. It was very clear what that meant. It
meant our borrowing costs were lower. It meant that our interest rates in
servicing our debt were lower. But, the converse of that situation is also true,
and members understand - particularly members who were part of the Cabinet -
understand this intimately, members opposite, that if we see a decrease in that
credit rating, if we see a decrease from the bond rating agencies that our
credit rating is lowered well let me tell you something else, and they know
this, they know that our costs to borrow are going to increase significantly.
They also know that our costs to service our debt will increase significantly.
What extra pressure and strain upon the already challenged dollar, financially
in the Province, will that put on each and every one of us?
Mr. Chair, you know that from our point of view this is the time of year when
we are talking about budgets because this is Budget time. The Minister of
Finance will stand in his place, in due course, and deliver the Budget for the
people of the Province. Then when we see the information that was being asked
today, that was given to a member of the Opposition, that was debated publicly,
that has people excited about things that may or may not happen, talk about
closing of this place and closing of that place. The fact of the matter is, they
went through the exact same exercise. This point cannot be lost, and I will make
it finally before I sit down again. That as a Cabinet, members who were part of
the former Cabinet who sit in Opposition today did exactly what departments do
every year. They asked the health care boards of this Province: What would it
mean if there was a 5 per cent, 10 per cent, 15 per cent or 20 per cent
reduction in the allocation of money to the boards? What would it mean to you as
a board?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Not true.
MR. E. BYRNE: Yes, it is.
From that point of view, Mr. Chair, it is an exercise. The Budget is an
exercise that everyone goes through. It is an exercise that every department
goes through. The point I am making is this, that we are going through an
exercise. That exercise will soon conclude itself and will culminate the day
when the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board stands in his place
in the House and delivers the Budget Speech. Once that becomes clear the
decisions of government will be made public where they should be made public,
right here in the House of Assembly. Then people will have a chance to agree or
disagree or challenge us and hold us accountable - which I hope you do, and I
defend your right to do it - but at the same time, between now and then it is
not incumbent upon us, and nor should we at this point, release the types of
information that will be contained in that Budget Speech because it would be
premature and members opposite understand that.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to rise today, Mr. Chairman, and speak to the motion on Interim
Supply. Before I do so, I would like to take the opportunity to congratulate all
the members of the Legislature on their re-election. It is my first opportunity
to speak in debate, to be able to do so, and to say to those who are new in the
Legislature that it is a great opportunity to be elected, to serve your
constituents, to work on their behalf for things that you believe in and that
you believe to be right and true and proper. I think that you will certainly
enjoy the time that you spend in this Legislature on their behalf.
Mr. Chairman, today I want to speak on the bill, the motion on Interim
Supply, and I want to talk about what is happening with regard to health care,
health care in Newfoundland and Labrador. I think it is always the number one
priority of people throughout our Province, always in the utmost of every person's
mind no matter where you live, whether it is in the northern region of Labrador,
in the western region on the Port au Port Peninsula, in the Burin Peninsula or
right here in the capital city of our great Province. It is always the number
one concern and the number one priority in the minds of the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Chairman, every person in this Province knows that there are times when
there will be change, and there are times when the status quo may no longer be
acceptable. People understand that and to a large degree, in most cases, they
accept it, but what people never understand is why things and issues that are so
important to them are quite often side-swept, are quite often not listened to,
or are quite often not enacted in the way, in the shape, in the manner, that
they see that is important.
Mr. Chairman, people in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador just want
to live - no matter what bay, no matter what harbour, what peninsula, what town
or what city they reside in - they want to do so enjoying the privileges and the
opportunities equally throughout our entire Province. They want to know that in
times of sickness they will have access to hospital facilities, that they will
have access to the kind of treatment, the kind of doctors, nurses and our allied
professionals who we have out there, health professionals in the field, that
they will have access to those people, because, Mr. Chairman, that is what is
important to them.
Mr. Chairman. they also realize that they are at one of those points in their
time in this Province where there will be some change. They know that there is a
new approach. They know that part of that new approach is looking at health
care, and they also know that there will probably be change and change will come
as part of that new approach. They all voted for it - at least some of them did;
thirty-four districts did - but what they never anticipated in that new approach
was that the services of health care in their communities, in their regions,
would become the focus, it would become the topic of discussion, that it would
be consuming the government's new approach, that it would become one of the
main pieces of looking at fiscal management within the government. They did not
know that their health care system would be a pawn in the bargaining of a new
budget in a new government. They never knew that, Mr. Chairman, but they are
finding out. They are finding out because of the directives that have been
issued, directives by the minister who says herself that she is looking at the
fiscal bottom line, who says herself that sustainability has to be the number
one priority, and that irregardless of the concerns, irregardless of the needs,
the suppressing need that might be out there in any region of this Province
within the health care sector, it is not being considered, Mr. Chairman. The
only thing being considered is balanced budgets, pay down the debt, and do it in
this time frame in whatever measures that will be required.
Mr. Chairman, the people are concerned, and they are legitimately concerned,
because when I look at a document like the Terms of Reference that the minister
has issued to a consultant to look at the Western Health Care Board and the
Grenfell Health Care Board, and when, in that Terms of Reference and that
consultant's proposal it is outlined quite clearly, Mr. Chairman, that
population approach will be the new approach when it comes to health care.
Population approach, Mr. Chairman, in an area where we have seen a declining
population in both the West Coast of the Island and the Northern Peninsula, yet
population approach to health care will be part of the formula, and that can
only mean for people in rural areas of this Province, rural communities, that
they will see a regionalization of health care services.
I read an
article in the paper, as I said earlier, from the community of
Hampton, who has a small clinic, which they feel is an important part of the
primary health care service in their particular region. They want to make sure
that they keep that clinic open, Mr. Chairman. I know how they feel. I know
exactly how they feel, because I have a lot of these small clinics in my own
district. Actually, I have six of them in my own district and I know how
important that primary health care piece is to those small rural communities in
the Province. I know how they depend upon it. I know how they cannot always get
a flight out to a hospital, or get an ambulance or a bus out to a hospital
because of the climatic factors that exist in our Province, because of the
geography that sometimes separates us. They have legitimate concerns, Mr.
Chairman.
Whenever you hear there is going to be a population-based approach to the
health care delivery, one has to be concerned because we know - we all know,
every one of us in this Legislature knows, because we represent these districts
- we know that the numbers are not always there in the rural areas of this
Province, in rural Newfoundland and Labrador. We know that we do not have the
numbers, Mr. Chairman, to always build the mecca in terms of every kind of
service, but we do know that we are still entitled, as citizens, to have a
decent, proper, health care service that is accessible, that is affordable to
the people when they need it.
Mr. Chairman, the other thing that is being considered is revenue
opportunities. This firm has been asked to look at revenue opportunities which
could be implemented, Mr. Chairman, to streamline and to improve the fiscal
financial operations of the boards in at least the following areas. There is a
whole bunch of these areas that are listed, Mr. Chairman: the referral practices
to secondary and tertiary centers. Bed utilization is listed, Mr. Chairman.
Ambulatory and day surgery activities are listed, Mr. Chairman. These are the
things that this group have been asked to look at the revenue opportunities that
might exist.
In support services, Mr. Chairman, they have been asked to look at what
revenue opportunities could exist in dietetics, housekeeping and maintenance.
Now, Mr. Chairman, to me that is a pretty clear directive. They have also been
asked, Mr. Chairman, to look at what revenue opportunities might exist in
medical and surgical supplies and drugs, in surgical services. Now see, Mr.
Chairman, in my mind there is an intent, for a minister and her department to
issue to a consultant, in a proposal, those particular things to look at; to
look at, Mr. Chairman, where the revenue opportunities are.
Now everyone knows, in the health care system, there is only one way to
create revenue opportunity. I ask the Member for Trinity North - he might want
to listen, because he could learn something here. When those particular
ambulatory fees might hit his district, he might want to wonder why it came from
somewhere, where it came from. Well, Mr. Chairman, I am telling him today that
there is a Terms of Reference that has been issued to a consultant to look at
revenue opportunities, Mr. Chairman, and everyone knows, the members opposite
know, that there is only one way that the health care system can generate
revenue. There is only one way, Mr. Chairman, that the hospital in my region can
generate revenue.
CHAIR: Order, please!
I remind the hon. member that her time has expired.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I will take my seat, but there will be lots of time for debate in Interim
Supply. I thank the House for its attention.
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to say a few words today on this bill, usually
referred to as an Interim Supply Bill, Mr. Chairman.
Members on the opposite side, in opposition, already are talking about the
rustbucket. Of course, that refers to the Hull 100 , that was purchased by
the previous Administration, from Estonia, and they paid, I think, something
like less than $2 million and it was supposed to be in the water back in 1999.
We spent approximately $3.5 million, and it is up to $9 million now, Mr.
Chairman, and it is still not being utilized. That is the type of situation that
really has gotten us into the situation we are in today, in the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador, with respect to the deficit that we have to face this
year, with respect to the debt that has accumulated over the past number of
years by the previous Administration.
I was not planning on getting into that, Mr. Chairman, because there is going
to be lots of time for me to speak on the financial situation of the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador when we get into the Budget Debate. It is interesting
to note that from 1949, I think, to now, there is somewhere around an $11
billion debt for the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, but from 1995 until
now - basically eight or nine years, the previous Administration doubled the
debt of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Then they have, basically,
the face to question this Administration when we put the numbers forward of the
real financial situation of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador and the
deficit that we are facing this year. I would say stay tuned with respect to the
Budget Debate, Mr. Chairman.
With respect to the Interim Supply Bill, which is what we are debating in the
House of Assembly today, this is basically, from one sense, a routine bill. When
I say a routine bill, I am not talking about the amount of dollars that we are
here to approve but routine in the light that it comes before the House of
Assembly each and every year, this Interim Supply Bill. Of course, the reason
why we have it at this time of year, before the end of March, is because we all
know full well that normally the Budget is not approved in the House of Assembly
each year prior to March 31. We get into April and possibly May before the
Budget is approved. From memory, I would think sometimes quite late in May.
Mr. Chairman, we are here to try and get some money approved through the
Legislature to pay the ongoing bills of the various departments within the
Administration or the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador. Some of the sum
heads we have, of course, would be: the Department of Finance, Executive
Council, Government Services, Transportation and Works, Municipal and Provincial
Affairs, all government departments.
The previous speaker was up speaking about health care in the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador, and some of the questions that were asked today in
this House of Assembly, and the responses from the Minister of Health. Really,
it is sad to see that the Opposition, in the new sitting of the House of
Assembly, so early on, are really into major, major fearmongering. We have seen
it over the past number of months, especially since January when we have been
talking about bringing the Budget forward. We see the Opposition fearmongering
with what we are going to do, or what they think we are going to do as an
Administration. We have a very serious situation in the Province of Newfoundland
and Labrador, Mr. Chairman, and we have to address it and we will address it.
Before I go on, what I meant to say when I got up first, Mr. Chairman, was
that I would like to thank the people in my district, the District of Cape St.
Francis, for again sending me to the Legislature to represent the people in
Pouch Cove, Torbay, Bauline, Flatrock, Logy Bay-Middle Cove-Outer Cove, up
around Major's Path, Torbay Road, Clovelly area, Airport Heights, Mr.
Chairman. It is an honour to be in the House of Assembly to represent the people
of the District of Cape St. Francis. Again, it is an honour to represent them as
the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. Hopefully, I will continue to
do the job that I have been doing in the past. Obviously, they must feel that I
am doing a fair job, I suppose, with the mandate they gave me in the last
election on October 21 with the majority. I would like to -
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. J. BYRNE: Thank you, I would say to the former Minister of Municipal
and Provincial Affairs.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) back.
MR. J. BYRNE: The former Minister of Works, Services and Transportation
said that they knew I would be back. I was not quite so sure that he would be
back, but he is, so I have to give him credit, I say to the former minister.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. J. BYRNE: There he goes again. The former Minister of Works, Services
and Transportation said we did our best to try and buy the district. His
district. Really, he should not be judging everybody by their own morals, I say
to the former Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. That is not the
way it works. We, on this side of the House, will be doing what we feel is right
for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, not making decisions based on pure
political motives, I say to the former minister.
The Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, Mr. Chairman, there are a
number of subheads within the department and we are looking now to be approved
by this Administration and this House of Assembly within the next few days,
hopefully, the Interim Supply and the Member for Fortune Bay-Cape la Hune is
quite familiar with the situation that I am in today looking for funding for
Interim Supply for the Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. We have
debt servicing expenditures which will require something like $24 million within
the next few months.
The Canada-Newfoundland Infrastructure Program will be needing somewhere
close to $20 million. This is an interesting one for most people, I would think,
especially in rural Newfoundland, I say to you, Mr. Chairman. The Municipal
Operating Grants, they are looking for now to be approved of almost $6.5
million; $6,450,000. We are looking for money to be approved for the disaster
assistance for $2.1 million. Of course, departmental salaries, where we have the
people within the department working - and a very good department, too, I would
say to the Members in the House of Assembly. The staff and the employees at the
Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs have done a very good job, and
doing a very good job, as the former minister knows.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) there for debt relief.
MR. J. BYRNE: Debt relief? Now, the former Minister of Works, Services
and Transportation wants to know how much is there for debt relief. You know, we
see special assistance, disaster assistance but I will tell him this, the former
minister understood the importance of the debt relief program and the benefits
it had to rural Newfoundland and many municipalities in the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador, and I am working on that. I am hoping to get some
funding this year for debt relief, even though we are in a very difficult
financial situation. I am hopeful that we will get some money to go towards that
very necessary objective.
General operating costs, we need almost $500,000 for that. Special
assistance, of course, we are looking at $1,066,700 in this Interim Supply for
the next few months. Special assistance, of course, Mr. Chairman, is used and
utilized for various functions throughout the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador. It is used for - a lot of it goes towards fire departments and for
bunker suits and special apparatus to fight fires because, you know, when you
really sit back and size it up, I suppose, when you look at the job that the
volunteer fire department is doing in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador
for the communities they serve, at the cost that they do it for and what we
contribute, we have to be very, very thankful that they are out there; that they
volunteer their time, the firefighters, both male and female. Also, basically
from that perspective, I would say that the spouses and partners of those
firefighters give up a lot also. So we should be very thankful to those
individuals, I say to you, Mr. Chairman, and to the Members of the House of
Assembly.
I know you only get, basically, ten minutes up and down on Interim Supply,
but the Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs plays a very important
role across the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador and, in particular, in
rural Newfoundland. I know that the former minister has a lot of deep concerns
for rural Newfoundland and the South Coast, and particularly (inaudible). We
will continue on, hopefully, based on the amount of monies that will be
forthcoming in the Budget, to continue to do the job that needs to be done for
the municipalities in rural Newfoundland.
One thing I will mention before I sit down, Mr. Chairman, is that the
previous Administration on many occasions - I will not say many, that is
incorrect, it would be misleading. I will say on a number of occasions in recent
years they said that they presented a balanced budget. I remember standing on
the other side of the House disagreeing with their statements, that you were
bringing in a balanced budget. The present Minister of Finance did the same
thing. In actual fact, we now know it to be the case, that there was no balanced
budget brought forward in the House of Assembly. They looked at the cash flow,
and even then I questioned that, if it was really and truly a balanced budget.
We now know that there really was not any balanced budgets.
As a matter of fact, as I just said, the debt of this Province doubled over
the past seven or eight years compared to when we joined Confederation in 1949
to now. It took something like forty-five years to get to a $6 billion debt and
in the matter of six or seven years we doubled it. Why? Because we saw another
example, in this election and leading up to the previous election during the
summer months, the previous Administration had promised something like $250
million more - promises they made leading into the Budget. The former Minister
of Works, Services and Transportation said that we tried to buy his district.
Now, who was trying to buy what, I say to you, Mr. Chairman, when we know the
deficit - what it is now? - over $800 million, and they were going to add
another $250 million in promises. So, in actual fact, we would be over a $1
billion in debt for this year alone.
I notice, Mr. Chairman, that you are giving me the signal that my time is up.
I am sure I will have lots of time to speak on the Budget in the upcoming days
and weeks and months. So, based on that, I thank you for your time and I am sure
someone on the other side will want to speak to this very important piece of
legislation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Bay of Islands.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JOYCE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Before I start and have a few words on Interim Supply, I would just like to
thank the people from the Bay of Islands for electing me again for the third
time. I guess I am the only fellow or lady in Newfoundland and Labrador who had
to win this election by vote and also in the court. I am glad I won by both
elections, Mr. Chairman.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. JOYCE: I am glad the people from the Bay of Islands put their faith
in me as usual, Mr. Chairman.
I was just listening to the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. I
have a lot of respect for the minister as a person and as a minister, but I must
say times have changed. I must say with the minister, times have changed. I just
happened to have it around me, just by luck, when you were speaking before me,
March 20, 2003, "I want to say a few words on this Interim Supply Bill that
the Minister of Finance just introduced, and she referred to this as a routine
bill. It is routine in the light that it is introduced each year, but other than
that it is not really routine.
"Madam Chair, we are into March 20, I believe, and they want this
approved by March 26. Tomorrow is Friday, the House does not sit; on Saturday
and Sunday, the House does not sit. So, on Monday or Tuesday of this week they
want $1.349 billion approved.
"The House could have easily opened up a week ago, two weeks ago, a
month ago. That is a decision for government. Again, a typical situation: come
in here, bring in legislation and try and get it forced through the House of
Assembly in a short period of time, when it is required we give it proper and
due consideration."
I say to the minister, times do change and obviously when you are sitting on
the other side things are a bit different. The Government House Leader mentioned
the fiscal problem the Province is into. There is no doubt we have a fiscal
problem. I don't know if there is anybody on this side of the House who would
doubt that or argue, but the difference is how we handle the fiscal situation.
I will just give you a good example. I am sure you are not even aware of it.
When the Minister of Health and Community Services went to the Western Health
Care Board and said, we need a plan to reduce your deficit for this year, and
over seven to ten years to reduce it down to zero, which, as you said, we all
ask - it is a fair comment. The comment that is not made to the public is that
the Western Health Care Board came back to the minister and said: You are not
giving us enough time. We need more time to look at the problems, look at what
it is going to cost in the hospital, look at what the human resources are going
to cost, look at the restraint it is going to have and look at the services that
are going to be reduced. The minister came back and said, it doesn't matter,
get it in, because we need the budget, and here we see the Budget being put back
again for another week, ten days or two weeks. We don't know when yet. That is
the difference on how we handle things. We give people time to follow through,
to see the human cost of it. I say to the member, I understand where you are
coming from, but I am sure there are a lot of things going on that you are not
aware of but we are on the West Coast. That is the difference in how we are
going to handle the situation.
The Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, as I said earlier, I do
have a lot of respect for him, but he also said they wouldn't make any
political statements or any political promises. Again, just by luck, I happen to
have it here, Madam Chair, just a few of them. Of course, when you say something
they always say: Well, it is not true, you need something. Well, I just brought
along a bit of documentation to back up what I am going to say here.
The first one was the promises the Premier made with the unions. I will just
read the headlines, I don't need to get into specifics: Williams Makes Big
Promises To NAPE. That is the headline that the Premier made when he spoke to
the NAPE convention, that legislation to force them back to work would not be
included and he would not lead a government that did. That is just one that was
made.
The seniors' benefits: I will just read the ad that NAPE - I am assuming
some of this money that is going to be in the Interim Supply will be used for
this. The seniors' benefit - the Minister of Education: We have some 11,000
public service pensioners who are affected by the fact that this government
refused to listen to their plight and to listen to their concerns. I ask the
hon. Minister of Finance to do what is fair and to show some compassion to our
pensioners who are asking redress from this insensitive government. Will he make
a commitment to the thousands of pensioners who say, please help us, we need
your help? What would he say today if he was not making political statements at
the time, I ask the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs.
You look at the Grand Bank Hospital, another prime example. I am pleased that
the Premier announced today, without waiting for the Budget, that the long-term
care facility is going to be built in Corner Brook. I am very pleased with that.
It is well needed, it is well documented, but on the other side there are other
members who have concerns in their district. I know during the election the
Grand Bank Hospital was a major concern for the member. I say to the members,
yes, it is a major concern, and I understand that the Premier told the mayor at
the time that this project, if he became Premier, would continue with no
discontinuance whatsoever. That is my understanding of what the mayor quoted,
and I read an
article where the mayor said that. If the Minister of Municipal
and Provincial Affairs wants to talk about political commitments made before and
during the election, that is just another one.
The Cancer Clinic in Grand Falls-Windsor is another prime example of how,
before an election and during an election, they are going to say, no, we need
it, it is a priority. I am hoping, through this Interim Supply, that the Cancer
Clinic in Grand Falls-Windsor will be there. I am sure the Minister of Tourism
and the Minister of Transportation and Works support this also and will ensure
that it is in there also.
The MRI for Corner Brook, once again I hope the funding is in this Interim
Supply. The Minister of Justice, you were holding hands around the Western
Health Care Corporation when they were rallying to get the MRI for Corner Brook,
offering your full support. Mr. Minister, they are still waiting to get
permission to go ahead; they are still awaiting permission to go ahead and do
some renovations to the Western Health Care Corporation for the MRI. That was
six months ago.
Of course, as I said here today, the Premier said that he did not know
anything about renovations, did not have any idea. The first he heard about it
was when he met with the Western Health Care Corporation this February. I bring
to the attention of the Minister of Justice and the Premier, the press release
by then the health critic, the Minister for Trinity North, who, in his press
release on August 20, 2003, demanded that this government start immediate
renovations to the health care through the Western Regional Hospital in Corner
Brook so the MRI could be housed without delay, to have it up and running by
January, 2004.
Here it is in March and they do not have permission yet to start the
renovations let alone to go ahead and do the renovations. I say to the minister,
you always say how much clout you have around the Cabinet table. I think it is
time for you to start using some of your clout. If you need, you should take the
Premier, because the Premier committed today that it is going to be done.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. JOYCE: Do you want me to show you the press release from the Member
for Trinity North? I will present you with the press release. That is not a
problem. I will give you the press release.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
CHAIR: Order, please!
MR. JOYCE: Mr. Chairman, I will present the press release. That is not a
problem, I say to the Minister of Justice.
The other thing about the MRI, the Premier has said today that it is the
first he has heard of it. There was a letter sent to him, I think it was last
July, by Dr. John Scott, who is a physician in Corner Brook. He put out the
points about the MRI and why it should come to Corner Brook. In that letter, one
of the points, not only was he talking about the renovations they needed to
house the MRI, it was the actual location where the MRI should be located at the
Western Memorial Regional Hospital in Corner Brook. If the Minister of Justice
wants a copy of that letter I will definitely give him a copy of that letter
also. These are the kinds of things, Mr. Chairman, that I hope are in this
interim budget which the Premier today announced that will be done for the
Corner Brook area.
Herdman Collegiate is another one. This government here, under the two former
Ministers of Education, worked with the residents, the District 3 School Board,
to ensure that Herdman Collegiate was going to be a multi-school for all Level
I, II, and III for the Corner Brook area to take out the inefficiencies for
Corner Brook and have one school. It was agreed to, there was a final plan done,
I think it was last August or September. To this date everybody is still waiting
to see if this project is going to go ahead. It is a $9 million project. I think
what I will do on Thursday is ask the Premier, because every time you ask the
Premier a question in the House, he stands up and approves it. No need to wait
for the Budget. I am just glad that it is happening that way. Sometimes I feel
sorry for the Minister of Health, who cannot answer the questions about health
in Corner Brook. That is the government's decision, who they want to answer
the question.
CHAIR: Order, please!
I remind the hon. member that his time has elapsed.
MR. JOYCE: By leave, Mr. Chairman, to clue up?
AN HON. MEMBER: No.
MR. JOYCE: I will have lots of time later on, Mr. Chairman, to speak on
these important issues. I look forward to the debate. I look forward to all of
the good things that are going to happen in the interim budget. I just hope the
things that are committed to by this government - and I have another five or six
that I will get to later - will be part of this Budget.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
I would like to rise this afternoon, too, to make a few comments on Interim
Supply and talk about the financial needs that are great in this Province, but
we have issues that desperately need to be addressed and taken care of.
I want to say, Mr. Chair, by starting out that the area of Labrador has been
negle