British Columbia Hansard — 1 April 2019, p.m., Issue 227 (41st Parliament, 4th Session)

20190401pm-Hansard-n227

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Fourth Session, 41st Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Monday, April 1, 2019 Afternoon Sitting Issue No. 227 THE HONOURABLE DARRYL PLECAS, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Janet Austin, OBC Fourth Session, 41st Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance............................................................................................................................Hon.

Carole James Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training..................................................................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Minister of Agriculture.........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General.................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development ............................................................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Child Care...................................................................................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services.................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Jinny Sims Minister of Education ............................................................................................................................................................ Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources ...............................................................................................Hon. Michelle Mungall Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy............................................................................................. Hon.

George Heyman Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development ..............................................Hon. Doug Donaldson Minister of Health .....................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ......................................................................................................... Hon.

Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Trade and Technology............................................................................................................................ Hon. Bruce Ralston Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour ...................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions............................................................................................................................ Hon. Judy Darcy Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.................................................................................................................. Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ........................................................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction..............................................................................................Hon. Shane Simpson Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture.....................................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................ Hon.

Claire Trevena LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition................................................................................................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Leader of the Third Party ....................................................................................................................................................Dr. Andrew Weaver Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................................

Raj Chouhan Assistant Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................... Joan Isaacs Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ................................................................................................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ....................................................................................................................................................Craig James Acting Clerk of the Legislative Assembly...............................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Clerk Assistant — Committees and Interparliamentary Relations ..........................................................................................Susan Sourial Sessional Law Clerk...............................................................................................................................................Loredana Catalli-Sonier, QC Parliamentary Counsel ...................................................................................................................................................................... S.

Suzie Seo Sergeant-at-Arms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary Lenz Acting Sergeant-at-Arms......................................................................................................................................... Randall Ennis, MMM, CD

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal) ........................................................................ Penticton Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)...............................................................Surrey-Newton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal) ................................................... Cariboo-Chilcotin Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP).............................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (NDP) ..................................................................... Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal) .......................................................

Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)......................................... Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (NDP)..................................................................... Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)....................................................... Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ..................................... Vancouver–West End Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP).....................................................Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ............................................................... Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon.

George (NDP)............................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal) ................................ Columbia River–Revelstoke Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal) ...............................................................Langley East Conroy, Hon. Katrine (NDP)......................................................... Kootenay West Darcy, Hon.

Judy (NDP) ............................................................New Westminster Davies, Dan (BC Liberal) ..........................................................Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal) ............................................ Abbotsford West Dean, Mitzi (NDP)...............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (NDP) ...............................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon. Adrian (NDP)......................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Hon.

Doug (NDP).....................................................................Stikine Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP)............................................. Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (NDP)....................................................... Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP) ...................................................... Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP) .....................................................Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal)........................................................... Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Hon.

Scott (NDP) ................................................ Mid Island–Pacific Rim Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ........................................... Cowichan Valley Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal) ................................................. Abbotsford-Mission Glumac, Rick (NDP)........................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Heyman, Hon. George (NDP) .............................................. Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon. John (NDP) ...............................................

Langford–Juan de Fuca Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal) .......................................................Surrey-Cloverdale Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal) .........................................Coquitlam–Burke Mountain James, Hon. Carole (NDP)...................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Johal, Jas (BC Liberal)...............................................

Richmond-Queensborough Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)..............................................................................Delta North Kang, Anne (NDP)..................................................................Burnaby–Deer Lake Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)............................................................................ Shuswap Larson, Linda (BC Liberal) .............................................Boundary-Similkameen Lee, Michael (BC Liberal) ......................................................

Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ....................................................Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (BC Liberal)............................................Kelowna–Lake Country Ma, Bowinn (NDP) ................................................... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Sheila (NDP) .......................................................................Nanaimo Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) ..................................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Martin, John (BC Liberal)......................................................................

Chilliwack Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal).................................... Kamloops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal) ..........................................Prince George–Mackenzie Mungall, Hon. Michelle (NDP).................................................... Nelson-Creston Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal) ...........................................................Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (BC Green Party)........................... Saanich North and the Islands Paton, Ian (BC Liberal)......................................................................... Delta South Plecas, Hon.

Darryl (Ind.) ..........................................................Abbotsford South Polak, Mary (BC Liberal) ............................................................................ Langley Popham, Hon. Lana (NDP)..............................................................Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) .......................................................... Surrey-Whalley Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal) ..................................................... Surrey–White Rock Reid, Linda (BC Liberal) ................................................

Richmond South Centre Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ............................................................................ North Coast Robinson, Hon. Selina (NDP) ....................................... Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)..................................................................................Skeena Routledge, Janet (NDP) .................................................................. Burnaby North Routley, Doug (NDP) ................................................Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, John (BC Liberal) ..............................................................

Nechako Lakes Shypitka, Tom (BC Liberal) .............................................................Kootenay East Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ........................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)................................................ Vancouver-Hastings Sims, Hon.

Jinny (NDP) .............................................................Surrey-Panorama Singh, Rachna (NDP) ........................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Stewart, Ben (BC Liberal) ................................................................Kelowna West Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)..............................................Parksville-Qualicum Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)........................................

Kamloops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal).......................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Sullivan, Sam (BC Liberal)...............................................Vancouver–False Creek Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal) ......................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal) ................................................................ Fraser-Nicola Thomson, Steve (BC Liberal)..................................................... Kelowna-Mission Thornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal) .............................

North Vancouver–Seymour Throness, Laurie (BC Liberal) ..................................................... Chilliwack-Kent Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) .............................................................. North Island Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal) ................................................Richmond North Centre Weaver, Dr. Andrew (BC Green Party) ......................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal) .............................. Vancouver-Quilchena Y ap, John (BC Liberal)..........................................................

Richmond-Steveston LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission ..........................................................................Simon Gibson Abbotsford South ..................................................................... Hon. Darryl Plecas Abbotsford West .................................................................... Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen.....................................................................

Linda Larson Burnaby–Deer Lake ...............................................................................Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds ..............................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin ............................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North .................................................................................. Coralee Oakes Chilliwack.............................................................................................. John Martin Chilliwack-Kent..............................................................................Laurie Throness Columbia River–Revelstoke........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain................................................................. Joan Isaacs Coquitlam-Maillardville..................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox ................................................................. Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley ............................................................................

Sonia Furstenau Delta North ...........................................................................................Ravi Kahlon Delta South.................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin.............................................................................Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kamloops–North Thompson............................................................Peter Milobar Kamloops–South Thompson ................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country....................................................................Norm Letnick Kelowna-Mission.............................................................................

Steve Thomson Kelowna West.........................................................................................Ben Stewart Kootenay East .....................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West ...................................................................... Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca............................................................. Hon. John Horgan Langley....................................................................................................

Mary Polak Langley East .......................................................................................Rich Coleman Maple Ridge–Mission ............................................................................ Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..........................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim .............................................................. Hon. Scott Fraser Nanaimo ....................................................................................

Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo–North Cowichan.............................................................. Doug Routley Nechako Lakes ...................................................................................... John Rustad Nelson-Creston.................................................................. Hon. Michelle Mungall New Westminster ......................................................................... Hon. Judy Darcy North Coast..........................................................................................

Jennifer Rice North Island ............................................................................ Hon. Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale ................................................................. Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour ......................................................Jane Thornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head ..........................................................Dr.

Andrew Weaver Parksville-Qualicum .....................................................................Michelle Stilwell Peace River North.................................................................................. Dan Davies Peace River South ............................................................................... Mike Bernier Penticton................................................................................................ Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam .................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam .....................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast ..................................................... Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie ..................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount.................................................................

Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre ........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough .......................................................................Jas Johal Richmond South Centre........................................................................ Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston..................................................................................

John Y ap Saanich North and the Islands............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap .................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena ......................................................................................................... Ellis Ross Stikine ..................................................................................Hon.

Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale............................................................................... Marvin Hunt Surrey-Fleetwood ...................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers ......................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford ....................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton.............................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama........................................................................... Hon. Jinny Sims Surrey South............................................................................... Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley........................................................................ Hon. Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock ............................................................................. Tracy Redies Vancouver-Fairview ............................................................ Hon.

George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek....................................................................... Sam Sullivan Vancouver-Fraserview .............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings .............................................................. Hon. Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington ..................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway ................................................................... Hon.

Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara .............................................................................. Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant ................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey...........................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena ......................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee...................................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill ................................................................ Hon. Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake .................................................................. Hon. Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano .................................................................

Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ..............................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: BC Liberal 42; NDP 41; BC Green Party 3; Independent 1

CONTENTS Monday, April 1, 2019 Afternoon Sitting Page Routine Business Tributes ..................................................................................................................................................................................... 7959 Paul Fraser Hon. J. Horgan A. Wilkinson A.

Weaver Introductions by Members..................................................................................................................................................... 7959 Introduction and First Reading of Bills................................................................................................................................ 7960 Bill 21 — Forest and Range Practices Amendment Act, 2019 Hon. D. Donaldson Bill 19 — Energy Statutes Amendment Act, 2019 Hon. M.

Mungall Statements (Standing Order 25B) ......................................................................................................................................... 7961 Holodomor awareness and remembrance G. Begg Inclusive society and Quebec legislation on religious symbols A. Wilkinson Action on homelessness S. Chandra Herbert Ranching industry D. Barnett Revitalization of Indigenous languages S. Malcolmson InSong Quesnel Y outh Choir C.

Oakes Ministerial Statements ............................................................................................................................................................ 7964 100th anniversary of office of legislative counsel Hon. M. Farnworth M. Lee S. Furstenau Oral Questions......................................................................................................................................................................... 7965 Tax policies and gas prices A. Wilkinson Hon. J. Horgan J. Johal Hon. G. Heyman Call for public inquiry into money laundering A. Weaver Hon. D.

Eby Tax policies and gas prices T. Redies Hon. G. Heyman Trans Mountain pipeline supply to refinery and gas prices G. Kyllo Hon. G. Heyman S. Bond Tax policies and gas prices J. Thornthwaite Hon. G. Heyman

Orders of the Day Committee of the Whole House............................................................................................................................................ 7970 Bill 10 — Income Tax Amendment Act, 2019 Hon. C. James M. de Jong A. Weaver M. Bernier Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of Supply .............................................................................................................................................................. 7990 Estimates: Ministry of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development(continued) J. Rustad Hon. D. Donaldson C. Oakes

MONDAY , APRIL 1, 2019 The House met at 1:35 p.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Tributes PAUL FRASER Hon. J. Horgan:It is certainly with a heavy heart that I rise today to announce the passing of a dedicated public ser- vant. For more than ten years, Paul Fraser served this Legis- lative Assembly as the B.C. Conflict of Interest Commission- er. At the beginning of his time, he served briefly as the Information and Privacy Commissioner. An independent officer of the Legislature — all of the members here know Paul’s good nature and his commit- ment and dedication to public service.

He was first and foremost focused on this institution and the people that occupied it. He was first and foremost committed to ensur- ing that none of us in this place stepped over any lines, and he was quick to tell us when we were on the side of the angels, which is something I greatly appreciated, always looking for that opportunity. He had a good sense of humour. I know I’m not allowed to bring props into this institution, but Paul gave me this tie and said that I didn’t have to declare it because it was so ugly. He had only one orange tie, and he couldn’t think of a bet- ter person to own it.

So I’m grateful for that. It speaks to his impishness. After 50 years serving the legal profession, he was also the head of the B.C. branch of the Canadian Bar Association and the Commonwealth Lawyers Association as well. Throughout his time in public life, he was always focused on ensuring that we got the best of ourselves and the best of each other. I will miss him. I will miss the fact that his biscuits were fresher than H.A.D. Oliver’s, who he brought from some- where back in the 1950s. I’m glad another member is laugh- ing at that.

Paul took a great responsibility for any nourish- ment he would give us when we came for our annual disclos- ures. He was a good man, a fine man. We’re joined in the gallery by many family members. Robin Fraser, Paul’s wife, is here; as well as his daughters Jac- queline and Genevieve; son John Paul; John Paul’s spouse, Maia Low; as well as their daughter, Anna Low; Cathy Hunt, Mr. Fraser’s daughter; as well as Georgia Hunt. Also from the Conflict of Interest Office are Alyne Mochan, Amber Der- ricourt and Carol Hoyer. All of us will miss Paul but none more than his family members who are with us here today.

Would the House please join with me. I understand the Leader of the Opposition will have a few comments as well. A. Wilkinson:There is a term in our world that has fallen into disuse, and it is “a gentleman. ” Paul Fraser, throughout his career and in his time here, was a gentleman. I knew him well in legal practice in Vancouver, where his reputation was of integrity, professionalism, humanity and pragmatism. He brought those skills here. He served this institution well. His job was to maintain the integrity of all of us and the institution, and he did that.

We all owe him a great debt of thanks, and we will miss him. A. Weaver:Well, that was an enormous shock. I found out literally as the Leader of the Official Opposition was speak- ing about the passing of Paul Fraser. I can only say that I’m at a loss for words. Paul was, as has been articulated, a gentleman. He cared deeply about the ongoing workings in this place. He cared deeply about each and every MLA, and he worked with each and every MLA to try to help them through what are often difficult and challenging issues that come to us as we try to serve our job here. I’m devastated. I spoke to him two weeks ago.

He had pneumonia. He still wasn’t feeling well. He spoke to me about an issue that I was asking about. He provided me some advice. [1:40 p.m.] I think I join everyone in this House in saying: “Thank you, Paul, for all of the good work you did, and we will miss you. ” Mr. Speaker:Hon. Members, I ask that you all rise to observe a moment of silence in memory of the late Paul Fraser, QC, Conflict of Interest Commissioner. [The House observed a moment of silence.] Introductions by Members Hon. M.

Mungall:Before I make my introduction, I just wanted to let Paul’s family know that this little guy coming into my life and my husband’s life was something that made Paul very happy. Whenever we did our annual check-in, he knew us all on a very personal level, so I got to share with him what was the happiest thing going on in my life. Having that perfect connection with him meant a lot to me, and I’m very sorry that he’s not with us.

Zavier would like to introduce the House to his uncle, Jesse Matieschyn, who is just back from a trip to Europe and the Middle East, where he bought Zavier this lovely formal Moroccan suit. So he still is in dress code. I ask that the House please join us in making Uncle Jesse very welcome. E. Ross:Before I get to my introductions, it’s pretty con- fusing, complex and intimidating to come into this place as a rookie MLA. There are a number of staff people that make your life easier and put you at ease. Paul Fraser was 7959

one of those people. It didn’t take long for me to under- stand what was going on around here because he spoke to you in plain English. My condolences to the family who are here. He made a tremendous impact on my job down here in Victoria. I’ve got two guests in the House here today from Skeena. One is Kris Boland, who is the deputy CEO of the Resource Benefits Alliance — project manager. I’m not even sure that rolls off correctly. The other one is actually the CEO of the regional district of Kitimat-Stikine, Ron Poole. Ron Poole and I go back a long ways.

We actually sparred a lot together in previous years regarding Kitimat council, as well as a little bit with Terrace council. Over the years, we created this level of respect that turned into a tremendous friendship. Would the House please welcome these two gentlemen in the gallery today. S. Bond:It’s hard to continue with normal business today, but I know that’s exactly what Paul would want us to do. We will miss him terribly. Just last week I said that very rarely do we have visitors from Prince George, and here I am up again to welcome two people from Prince George. They are very well known in our community.

They contribute very significantly in their professional lives. They make a difference in the lives of the people who live in Prince George, and we are very grateful for that. So it’s a delight to be able to welcome them here. I know they’ve both heard a lot about question period and about the Legislature, and now they’ll get to experience it in person. I know that everyone in the House will join me in making welcome Malachy Tohill and Connie Abe. Thank you for joining us here today. J.

Thornthwaite:I have a constituent here today that was in the lunch gathering that we had with the group Common Ground Alliance, “Call before you dig. ” I’ d like the House to please welcome my constituent Tony Roberts. He’s the director of membership and recruitment for B.C. One Call. Could the House please make him welcome. [1:45 p.m.] Hon. B. Ralston:Today in the House are a number of Canadians of Ukrainian origin who are here to launch a Canada-wide initiative to raise the knowledge of and aware- ness of the Holodomor.

It is the death by starvation, literally translated from Ukrainian, of six million to ten million Ukrainians — the numbers vary because it was so horrible an experience, and records were very remote — in the winter of 1932 and 1933, unknown and kept secret in Stalin’s Russia, actually, until more or less the Iron Curtain fell in 1989. The group here includes the executive director of the Canada-Ukraine Foundation, Roma Zerowicks; the Ukrain- ian Canadian Congress Victoria branch chair, Robert Her- chak; and fellow board members Anna Visnevka, Motria Koropecki and Andrei Fabrikov.

Would the House please make all of them welcome. P . Milobar:It gives me pleasure to introduce today some visitors from Kamloops. We have Dr. Keith Boughton and his wife, Kathy Boughton, who are here visiting their son Stephen. Dr. Boughton and his wife, Kathy, both worked at Royal Inland Hospital for the better part of 40 years — sev- eral of those years, actually, with my father as well.

Like the member for Kamloops–South Thompson and myself, of course, they will be missing game 6 of the Blazers– Victoria Royals game tonight back in Kamloops, but all of us are very confident that we’ll see them back here on Wed- nesday for game 7 and an eventual good end to that, as most members on this side of the House would probably agree with me as well. Hon. M. Farnworth:As many of you in this chamber know, April is nationally recognized as Dig Safe Month. I’m very happy to welcome to the chamber today the British Col- umbia Common Ground Alliance. Common Ground Alli- ance is a non-profit organization.

They help British Colum- bians prevent injuries, property damage and inconvenient infrastructure outages by spreading the importance of safe digging practices. As most of you know, the “Click before you dig” program ensures the safety of all of us. It’s an amaz- ing program and one that deserves our full support. Would the House please make the members of Common Ground most welcome today. M. Dean:It’s my honour today to introduce the CEO of Island Health, Kathy MacNeil. She’s here today with board chair Leah Hollins and also Mike Lowe, director of part- ner engagement.

Would the House please make them very welcome. Introduction and First Reading of Bills BILL 21 — FOREST AND RANGE PRACTICES AMENDMENT ACT, 2019 Hon. D. Donaldson presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Forest and Range Practices Amendment Act, 2019. Hon. D. Donaldson:I move that amendments to the Forest and Range Practices Act be introduced and read for a first time now. Today I introduce changes to the Forest and Range Prac- tices Act to restore public confidence in how B.C. ’s forests are managed.

One of the chief concerns raised by British Col- umbians about the state of the forest is that, over the past decade, the government abandoned oversight. The people of British Columbia expect their government to ensure the forests are properly cared for, for the benefit of all people in 7960 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 1, 2019

B.C. So today we are taking steps to strengthen government’s oversight of the forest sector. These changes will not add onerous levels of regulation but will offer clear guidelines to the professionals who man- age the interactions with the publicly owned land base. The changes will create more frequent and reliable opportunities for the public to have input into how things are done in the woods and on the range. There will be greater information- sharing as well. Through forest stewardship plans and oper- ational maps, forest companies will have to be more trans- parent about what their logging plans are.

We are putting the land first and, at the same time, finding paths to reconcili- ation with First Nations. My role as minister, and the role of delegates of the minis- ter, is also being strengthened to manage forest activity. The changes being introduced today respond to feedback and analysis received over the last decade from First Nations, the Forest Practices Board, the forest industry, the Union of B.C.

Municipalities and other resource groups. [1:50 p.m.] Finally, the changes to the Forest and Range Practices Act that we are announcing today are an essential com- ponent of our forest sector revitalization initiative. These changes are long overdue and needed to boost public confid- ence and establish collaboration planning with First Nations. The changes to the act affect forest and range practices throughout the entire province. Mr. Speaker:The question is first reading of the bill. Motion approved. Hon. D.

Donaldson:I move that the Forest and Range Practices Act be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting after today. Bill 21, Forest and Range Practices Amendment Act, 2019, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. BILL 19 — ENERGY STATUTES AMENDMENT ACT, 2019 Hon. M. Mungall presented a message from Her Honour the Lieutenant-Governor: a bill intituled Energy Statutes Amendment Act, 2019. Hon. M. Mungall:I move that the bill be introduced and read a first time now.

I’m pleased to introduce Bill 19, the Energy Statutes Amendment Act, 2019. This bill amends the Clean Energy Act, the Hydro and Power Authority Act and the Utilities Commission Act. The proposed amendments will imple- ment several recommendations flowing from phase 1 of the comprehensive B.C. Hydro review. We undertook this review as a first stage to keep rates affordable for British Columbians while also ensuring the long-term sustainability and vibrancy of B.C. ’s crown jewel, its public utility, B.C. Hydro. That review resulted in several recommendations that will keep rates affordable, rebuild the B.C.

Utilities Commission’s regulatory role and ensure that B.C. Hydro works for British Columbians. Because our review recommended that we re-establish important aspects of the B.C. Utilities Commission’s regu- latory oversight of B.C. Hydro, pointing out that this body is best suited to act in ratepayers’ interests rather than the political whims of the day, we are taking action today with this legislation. This bill reinstates the B.C. Utilities Commission’s author- ity to review and approve B.C.

Hydro’s integrated resource plan, which outlines its 20-year production of electricity demand and its plans for meeting that demand. The bill also assists with keeping B.C. Hydro rates affordable by both defining management of rate classes and protecting ratepay- ers and taxpayers from past policy decisions that could have further damaging effects on B.C. Hydro’s bottom line. Spe- cifically, the bill eliminates the concept of expenditures for export from the Clean Energy Act. Expenditures for export are B.C.

Hydro expenditures that are over and above costs incurred to supply domestic electri- city demand — for example, buying private power with the purpose to sell that power on the market to other jurisdic- tions but doing so at a rate much lower than what we pur- chased. Because the allowance for expenditures for export has not and will not result in a B.C. Hydro that works for British Columbians’ collective well-being, it needs to be eliminated from the legislation. Finally, this bill ensures that B.C.

Hydro’s marketing sub- sidiary, Powerex, remains solely regulated by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission so that it can compete effectively in energy markets outside B.C. Mr. Speaker:The question is first reading of the bill. Motion approved. Hon. M. Mungall:I now move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today. Bill 19, Energy Statutes Amendment Act, 2019, introduced, read a first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Statements (Standing Order 25B) HOLODOMOR AW ARENESS AND REMEMBRANCE G. Begg: Four years ago, April was designated as Geno- cide Remembrance, Condemnation and Prevention Month Monday, April 1, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7961

in Canada. Humanity has witnessed many genocides, including the Holodomor. The Ukrainian Canadian council and Canada-Ukraine Foundation are here today as part of their Holodomor National Awareness Tour. Their mission: to build a strong, democratic and diverse society in Canada by raising aware- ness about the Holodomor. Holodomor is a Ukrainian word that means extermin- ation by means of starvation. Between 1932 and 1933, an estimated ten million Ukrainians suffered and lost their lives to the famine genocide.

Of those, one-third were children. [1:55 p.m.] Many of the survivors of this famine and genocide, and their descendants, reside here in Canada. There are close to 1.4 million Ukrainians and Ukrainian descendants in Canada, making this the world’s third-largest Ukrainian population. Canada has a long-standing relationship with the Ukraine. In fact, Canada was the first western nation to recognize Ukraine’s independence back in 1991.

The Ukrainian-Canadian community, built over four waves of immigration dating back at least to 1891, began on the Prair- ies but, more recently, has expanded into Ontario, Quebec and British Columbia. Their community has greatly contrib- uted to the cultural, economic, political and educational life in British Columbia and across Canada. I encourage members to take the opportunity today to participate in the 20-minute audiovisual presentation in the Holodomor mobile classroom, parked in front of the Legislature, to learn more about this horrific part of humanity’s history.

The historical truth of the Holodomor was suppressed for many years in the former Soviet Union. More recently many governments around the world have recognized this deliber- ate campaign of starvation of Ukrainians as genocide. I invite British Columbians to take time to remember the victims of genocide. It is our collective responsibility to reflect on these tragedies so that we can learn and prevent them from ever happening again. May we never lose sight of our shared duty to protect human rights and dignity and to fight hate and discrimination. INCLUSIVE SOCIETY AND QUEBEC LEGISLATION ON RELIGIOUS SYMBOLS A.

Wilkinson:Here in British Columbia, we’ve been very fortunate to benefit from a broadly inclusive and respectful society. It’s become a rich and vibrant place, where people from all over the world find a safe and pleasant place in which to make out their lives. We have the most ethnically diverse province in the country and welcome about 40,000 new immigrants every year. We embody those values of inclusiveness and respect for each other, and we need to make sure that that is a truly Canadian value.

So it’s with some distress that many of us have noticed that the Quebec Legislature has now heard a bill that threatens these important principles by ban- ning people in positions of authority from wearing reli- gious symbols. For example, any newly hired teacher or police officer would face a prohibition on their long-standing cultural tra- ditions expressed through religious symbols. Quebec’s bill includes provisions to invoke the notwithstanding clause, found within the Charter of Rights, to effectively curtail that Charter right completely and protect it from the inevitable challenges in the courts.

In British Columbia, I do hope that all of us in this cham- ber take the view that this is not appropriate. This is totally unacceptable. I stand today to say that it is an attempt to put religious discrimination into the code of law. This is some- thing we as a society need to resist. We need to be on the record as saying that hate crimes and angry rhetoric, the kind of vicious speech that we see becoming more tolerated in our society because of the social media vehicles, is some- thing that we must jointly stand against.

That is an inevitable conclusion of the kind of attitude that is being shown by the Quebec Legislature. So it’s incumbent on all of us to publicly state our opposition to these meas- ures, to stand up for equality and respect. We need to, to use a trite phrase, be the change that we wish to see. My Canada doesn’t stand for legislated assaults on Charter rights.

I call on the members of this House and on all British Columbians to take note of this important development in Quebec, to openly state our opposition to this kind of thing and to promote the inclusiveness, accept- ance and respect that all of us have benefited from throughout our lives here in British Columbia. These are values that the world sees as of great merit here, and we must be prepared to stand up and be proud of those values. ACTION ON HOMELESSNESS S. Chandra Herbert:I first got into government, provin- cially, in part to fight homelessness. Too many people in my community were going homeless.

They didn’t want to be homeless. People in my neighbourhood didn’t want them to be homeless. [2:00 p.m.] Unfortunately, too many British Columbians will still be homeless tonight. Too many were last year. Too many were the year before. Now more have moved inside in the last year than, I believe, in any time in B.C. history, in part because of the quick action of building modular housing. Get it built. Get people inside. But there are still too many struggling on the streets.

Now, a constituent asked me once: “Why do you believe so much that you must fight homelessness?” I responded to him: “Well, in a cold-hearted version, it’s just the dollars and cents. It makes more sense to have somebody housed than to have them homeless, where they get sick, where people have to deal with the sickness, where there are legal 7962 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 1, 2019

costs, criminal costs, challenges of poverty — too many challenges to name. ” He said to me: “Jeez. That’s a little cold. Don’t you care about the people?” I smiled, because I’ d been debating with some for too long about the need to act just on the dollars and cents. He said that it’s the right thing for the heart, and I completely agreed. It’s hard to live in a community where you see folks in such a struggle each and every day. It makes you wonder about how we are spending our collective wealth. He was right, so I fight homelessness with a heart and with the head.

It makes sense financially, and it makes sense for the heart as well. So what’s the holdup? I do believe most of us don’t want homelessness to continue. Well, for some, there’s fear. Cer- tainly there have been places in my community in Vancouver and, indeed, across the province where people use fear to divide. They speak about all sorts of issues, any reasons. Too far to the left. Too far to the right. It’s too tall. It’s too small. It’s not big enough. It’s not this. It’s not that. For the people who are struggling in homelessness, they need a roof.

They need more than a roof; they need the sup- ports to build a better life. Because it works. Housing works. It leads to jobs. It leads to health care. It leads to addiction treatment, mental health treatment. It leads to families unit- ing. It leads to people fulfilling their dreams. Let’s redouble our efforts to fight homelessness in each and every one of our communities. We owe it to each other. We owe it to all of us. RANCHING INDUSTRY D. Barnett:To the relief of many British Columbians, winter is coming to an end.

For ranchers across this province, spring not only means the arrival of warmer weather but also the arrival of newborn calves. This can be a demanding and intense time of year for ranchers, who are responsible for ensuring that their cows safely deliver their calves. For many, this means diligent monitoring of their herds 24 hours a day, seven days a week. There are over 4,000 cattle ranchers across five million acres in British Columbia. It is estimated that the B.C. beef industry contributes $600 million to the provincial economy every year and employs 8,700 people.

Ranchers are true land stewards who advocate for the protection of B.C. ’s agricultur- al land and the sustainability of their industry. Despite their hard work and advocacy, ranchers contin- ue to face increased stress on the land they do their work on. From flooding to wildfires, much of the province’s grazing land is damaged every year, especially in the Cari- boo-Chilcotin. Many of my constituents are members of the ranching community, and I am honoured to represent them in this House. I know firsthand the detrimental impact that a changing climate is having on the lives of ranchers and their families.

This spring calves will be born across this province, and ranchers will work harder than ever to ensure they survive and thrive. Given the importance of this industry, I encour- age all members of this House to do what they can to support the ranchers in B.C. and the calves they welcome into the world this spring. REVITALIZATION OF INDIGENOUS LANGUAGES S. Malcolmson:I bring good news from home. Snun- eymuxw Native Sons almost won the basketball tournament in Terrace. It was just snatched away in the final overtime period, final game.

Second, Nanaimo’s Ay Lelum clothing company blew the roof off the Vancouver fashion show last week. I was so proud to see the Good and Moorehouse family Indigenous designs on the runway in Vancouver. [2:05 p.m.] Y esterday was National Indigenous Languages Day. All these actions affirm how vital culture is in Indigenous communities across B.C. Thousands of language champi- ons are fighting to bring language back from the brink — thousands — because here, colonial policies cut Indi- genous peoples’ connection to their language and culture, with devastating results.

In B.C., less than 6,000 people speak just one of the 34 Indigenous languages that remain. It’s a crisis. So I am proud to be part of a government that pledged $50 million last year for language revitalization. Language grants have more than doubled since last year, and almost four times as many people are taking language training. In June, the First Peoples Cultural Council and the First Peoples Cultural Foundation will welcome Indigenous lan- guage champions to Victoria for a major Indigenous lan- guage revitalization conference.

We’ll be shining a spotlight on the good work happening here at home and learning from experts around the world. True reconciliation needs strong support for communit- ies and students doing the hard work of language relearn- ing. On National Indigenous Languages Day, we celebrate how fundamental language is to the well-being of Indigen- ous communities, and we celebrate the language teachers leading the way. INSONG QUESNEL YOUTH CHOIR C. Oakes:The power of choir. Today I pay tribute to the remarkable man, Paul Fraser. I’ d like to recognize his family in the gallery.

Knowing of Paul’s love of his family and the conversations we’ve shared on the power of choir, I think it’s quite fitting. How do most ideas get started in this world? Usually with a passion and a heartfelt desire to make a dream become a reality. One such idea came about in the summer of 2015 with a wonder-team of music lovers — choir, to be exact. Armed with sheet music and with Bev Haluschak as man- Monday, April 1, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7963

ager, Melanie McKinnon as musical director and Anna Allan as collaborative artist, this is how InSong Quesnel Y outh Choir was born. One of the incredible supporters, as well, of Quesnel InSong is Margo Rose. In today’s complex world, with an enormous amount of pressure placed on young people, choir provides a true place of joy. Choristers have the opportunity to sing in an ensemble and are exposed to different genres of music as well as foreign languages. They learn to work as a team, as in sports, supporting each other through rough patches and encouraging each other to succeed.

The choristers also learn about citizenship. Each learns more about diversity and how they can make an impact in their community. InSong has sung for seniors in assisted liv- ing residences, raised money for SPCA. They’ve even sung for our veterans at the cenotaph on Remembrance Day. I was blessed to have the leadership of Mrs. Rose, where I first learned about the power of choir. Thank you, Mrs. Rose, on behalf of all your students’ lives you’ve made a difference in. Mrs. Rose continues to support the choir InSong.

InSong Quesnel Y outh Choir believes that our youth are bright, and we want them to experience the joy of learn- ing new things and supporting people in our community. There is nothing sweeter than youthful voices joined together in singing. Ministerial Statements 100th ANNIVERSARY OF OFFICE OF LEGISLATIVE COUNSEL Hon. M. Farnworth:I rise to make a ministerial state- ment. As all of us know, we could not do our jobs in this cham- ber, whether in government or in opposition, without legis- lation before us.

Today marks the 100th anniversary of the appointment of Avard Pineo as the first legislative counsel for the government of British Columbia. That appointment was made effective April 1, 1919. That is a significant achievement in terms of parliamentary democracy in this province. [2:10 p.m.] The office of legislative counsel provides legislative ser- vices to our governments, including the drafting of all gov- ernment bills, regulations and orders-in-council and, since 2017, the drafting of non-government bills for Members of the Legislative Assembly.

Today’s modern office of legislative counsel is composed of more than legislative counsel. It includes legislative pro- fessionals, who provide editing and consolidation services; legal assistants; the registrar of regulations, who maintains the register for all enacted regulations; and the order-in- council administration office. The OIC administration office maintains records of orders-in-council and arranges for the signature of the Lieutenant-Governor on proclamations, bills and orders-in-council.

Over the past 100 years, there have been a lot of advances in their work, but one thing hasn’t changed: the profession- alism and dedication of these important public servants who allow us to do our job on behalf of the people of this province. I’ d ask all members of this House to congratulate the 100th anniversary of the office of legislative counsel. M. Lee: I’ d like to just join my colleague across the aisle in recognizing the 100th anniversary of the legislative coun- sel’s office.

Together with the Premier and the Lieutenant- Governor and the Attorney General, as well as the members from Richmond Centre and Abbotsford-Mission, we joined in today’s festivities. There were two kinds of very large cakes and great humour. Also, members of our public service clearly recognize, as the member just spoke to, the import- ance of the level of professionalism and dedication that legis- lative counsel brings to our House, in our proceedings and all of the laws.

I know that when I was at law school in 1993, studying legislation and policy in first-year law, you go through much in statutory-interpretation-type courses and instruction. To have legislation that is properly drafted, clear and accessible is important. We recognize the service that legislative coun- sel does, including Corinne Swystun, now as the chief of legislative counsel. I just also wanted to stand and rise, if I may, to join others, as I’ve heard at the session, to recognize Paul Fraser and his family on his passing. I’ d like to say that Paul, clearly, made us all better.

He raised the standard of professionalism for our House. He raised the level of integrity and service. The legacy that he has provided to all members of this House in the years of his service will clearly be remembered. It’s remarkable that he had a career of over 50 years. He was called to the bar in 1965.

The roles that he played for this country include as a special adviser to the Ministry of For- eign Affairs on environmental treaty issues, on the industri- al inquiry commission in 1995 for the rail strike, as well as to set up and establish a dispute resolution process for Cana- dian Indian residential school system disputes. He also had the Fraser report on pornography and prostitution in 1985. He set a very fine example of the kinds of individuals that we need to continue to have in our public service, in this House and for this country. For that, we are entirely and eternally grateful to Mr.

Paul Fraser for his service to our country and to this province. S. Furstenau:As the historian of the group, I’m delighted to stand up today to join the minister and the official oppo- sition to mark the centennial birthday of the B.C. office of legislative counsel. Specifically, it marks the appointment of Avard Vernon Pineo to the position of the first legislative counsel in the province. I understand that Mr. Pineo was also one of the founding members of the Uniform Law Conference of 7964 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 1, 2019

Canada, which celebrated its own centennial birthday last year. But we won’t talk about uniforms at all. The B.C. office of legislative counsel has always been an active, respected and significant contributor to leading legis- lative initiatives in this country and in our province. I know that our staff have very much enjoyed working with legislat- ive counsel on a variety of initiatives over the last 20 months, and we all look forward to continuing to work with them. The employees of this office are always professional and go well above and beyond. They are diligent, hard workers who take pride in their work.

They are the people behind the scenes that write our laws and ensure that our whole system works. Today I’ d like to echo the minister’s comments and acknowledge the central role they play in the functioning of our Legislature. [2:15 p.m.] Oral Questions TAX POLICIES AND GAS PRICES A. Wilkinson:Well, we’ve had some very weighty issues brought up here today. Without meaning to minimize them, I expect that Mr. Fraser and so many others are expecting us to get right back down to business. We’re going to do that at the local gas station.

Today is April Fool’s Day, and the joke seems to be on British Colum- bians, given that we already have the highest gasoline prices in North America. We have the highest taxes on our gasoline in North America, and the Premier seems to think it’s just fine to pile on some more. The obvious question for the Premier is: is there any limit to this? At what point does the Premier call off the attack on motorists by putting some kind of ceiling or plateau on gas- oline taxes? Premier, how high do gas prices have to go before this government will relent and give motorists a break? Hon. J.

Horgan:I appreciate the question from the mem- ber on the other side. I’ll remind him of his comments just a year ago, when he said: “I think it’s fair to say that the pro- vincial government has a limited role in this, because gasol- ine taxes have been set for a long time. ” That was the end of the quote. It had to do with the spikes at the pumps usually at the start of a long weekend or at the beginning of the sum- mer season.

I empathize — as does the Leader of the Opposition and, I think, all members — with citizens who see high gas prices that have no correlation to the commodity price, have no correlation to the taxes that may or may not have been put in over many, many years. It’s confusing to the travelling public. How is it that raw oil prices are under 50 bucks, yet prices at the pump are heading towards $1.50?

I share the member’s concern, and I think I’ll remind him of what he said back in May of last year, which was: “The province is imposing a one-cent-a-litre increase, with an increase in the carbon price today, which will put us as leaders in the country. ” The member doesn’t need to be reminded that it was his party that brought in the carbon tax. I’m sure that he’ll be mindful of that. We’re all working together to reduce our emissions. We’re working together to make life more affordable for British Columbians. But a one-cent-a-litre impact is not the ten- cent spike we saw at the pumps.

That’s gouging, in my opin- ion. We need more refining capacity. If the member wants to join with me, we can see if we can work on that together. Mr. Speaker:The Leader of the Official Opposition on a supplemental. A. Wilkinson: It’s ironic that the Premier talks about refining capacity when about 30 miles straight east of here is all the refining capacity in the world, at Anacortes, Wash- ington, which is being protected and defended by the Pre- mier on behalf of Governor Inslee to make sure that we buy American-refined products. Let’s get the story straight here, Premier: 19 new and increased taxes.

This is no April Fool’s joke. Y ou are the party that’s deciding when the taxes go up. These carbon taxes are no longer revenue-neutral. We’re feeding the Americ- an refinery industry with this approach by making it price- advantageous for them to sell us their fuel, using Canadian feedstock to refine American fuel and sell it back to Canada. Premier, when are you going to give the same break to British Columbians that you just gave to the multinationals in the LNG deal? Hon. J. Horgan:Again, quite often, be careful of what box you open up.

For the Leader of the Opposition to start talking about affordability today, maybe it is still April Fool’s Day. I mean, this from the leader of a party that doubled med- ical services premiums over their time in office. What have we done? We’ve cut them in half, and they’ll be gone com- pletely by next January. A 70 percent increase in B.C. Hydro rates — 70 percent increase. The party of unaffordability over there should be careful where they cast their stones, because their record is a pretty pathetic one. Mr. Speaker:The Leader of the Official Opposition on a second supplemental. A.

Wilkinson:It’s a bit rich for the Premier to stand up and talk about their successes on affordability when their housing program is a complete failure, house prices remain high and gasoline prices went up today because of one of the Premier’s pet taxes — 19 new taxes since this government took office. This Premier has done nothing, effectively, for affordability in British Columbia. [2:20 p.m.] We have the provisional motor fuel tax. We have the car- bon tax. We have transit taxes. These are all being built into Monday, April 1, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7965

the price at the pumps. Of course, big industry, whether it’s Royal Dutch Shell or one of the Asian companies that has invested in LNG, gets a $30 ceiling on their carbon tax. Well, lo and behold, the party of the people is handing out the prizes to the massive multinational petroleum companies at the expense of British Columbians. Premier, you’ve abandoned revenue-neutrality of the car- bon tax…. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. Members, we shall hear the ques- tion. A.

Wilkinson:Y ou’ve abandoned the idea of a fair deal for British Columbians with the LNG carbon tax, and now you’ve abandoned the idea of affordability at the pumps. What’s the ceiling on gasoline prices that you’re prepared to accept before you draw a line on your tax agenda? Hon. J. Horgan:I guess if you’ve got a line from the 1970s that worked for you then and maybe for decades after that, you should stick with it. But this notion that we’ve made life more unaffordable…. What about the tolls on the Port Mann Bridge? What about that? Whose idea was that? Was it the party of the people on the other side? No.

It was this government that came in and said it’s not fair to impose a cost on one class of citizens that you wouldn’t put on another. What did we do with medical services premiums? We didn’t double them; we eliminated them. And $400 rebates on carbon pricing for low-income families — that’s what we’re doing. Affordability is at the centre of everything we do because people are what matter, not the people that they used to work for — the big donors who can’t donate any- more. We’re giving breaks to real people. They’re feeling it in their communities. We’re proud of what we’ve done.

He should get on board, get on board with the rest of B.C. J. Johal:Now, when Vancouverites fill up at the pump, 51 cents a litre goes towards gas tax — 51 cents. It’s a sure recipe to drive consumers south in droves to gas up in Washing- ton state and yet another reminder — a gift for the Premier’s good friend, Jay Inslee. The LNG industry is exempt from the Premier’s increasing gas taxes, but that special deal is not available to hard-working British Columbians, commuters and small businesses. Will the Premier give British Columbians the same break? Hon. G.

Heyman:Perhaps the member opposite, because he is in his first term in this chamber, doesn’t realize that three-quarters of the carbon tax on gasoline came from the government of his party when they were in power in 2008. But you know, we’re not complaining about that. Interjections. Mr. Speaker: Members. Members, we shall hear the response. Thank you. Hon. G. Heyman: We’re not complaining about that, because it has been successful. Perhaps the members oppos- ite haven’t been paying attention in the last year when gas prices go up by a nickel one day and down by a dime the next, or the other way around.

This action today adds one cent to a litre of gasoline. More importantly, we are making life more affordable for British Columbians. As of July 1, the carbon tax rebate will rise up to $400 for a family of four and, in 2021, $500 for a family of four. Through any range of measures that enable and help British Columbians to lower their carbon footprint, we’re making life better and more affordable. Mr. Speaker:The member for Richmond-Queensbor- ough on a supplemental. J. Johal:The member can minimize what the opposition is asking here, but the Premier and the government do have options. They can do something.

They can cut the provincial motor fuel tax, the carbon tax or the transit tax. Instead, they’ve chosen to increase gas taxes. The Premier reduced the carbon tax for LNG but thinks B.C. families should pay the highest taxes on fuel in the country. If large industrial corporations do not have to pay higher carbon taxes, why should commuters and small businesses have to pay it? [2:25 p.m.] Hon. G. Heyman: It’s ironic that members opposite are now claiming that they’re the standard-bearers for afford- ability after what they put British Columbians through for 16 long, hard years.

They doubled MSP premiums; we’re eliminating them. They increased hydro rates by 70 per- cent; we’re trying to get them under control. They left a mess at ICBC. Rates would have gone up by 40 percent, and we are taking that on. Through any range of initiatives — whether it’s child care, whether it’s MSP reduction, whether it’s carbon rebates for individuals, families and businesses — we’re making life more affordable. An independent economic analysis shows that the measures that we’ve announced and taken have lowered, and will lower, taxes for every British Columbian except the richest 1 percent.

In case they don’t know who that 1 percent is, the Leader of the Official Opposition was meeting with them at the West Vancouver Y acht Club. CALL FOR PUBLIC INQUIRY INTO MONEY LAUNDERING A. Weaver:We learned last week that a controversial seni- 7966 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 1, 2019

or-level intervention was made by officials in the Finance Ministry in order to maximize casino revenue. Incredibly, the intervention to increase betting limits to $100,000 per hand, despite repeated warnings from the regulator, was deemed to be “in the public interest” by the former Minister of Finance. Let me reiterate. Allowing $100,000 betting limits to be played at casinos, despite clear warning signs from the reg- ulator, was deemed to be “in the public interest. ” I don’t know how many of you have played blackjack or poker with $100,000 stakes. I’ d suggest not an awful lot. Shocking, it is.

My question is to the Attorney General. Each week more and more information is brought to light. An ever-growing list of questions is emerging. Pressure for an independent public inquiry continues to grow. The federal Minister of Border Security and Organized Crime Reduction has indic- ated he is open to a request from the province for supporting an inquiry. He now has two special reports in front of him. Does he think he has enough evidence to call for a public inquiry? Hon. D. Eby: Thank you to the member for the question. Y es, this is an important day.

The Minister of Finance has received a report from her team, from Maureen Maloney. I’ve received Dr. German’s report, which, as the member knows, looks at issues around luxury cars, issues around horse racing and issues around real estate. Dr. German’s report alone is more than 300 pages. We’ve just received it. We’ll be going through it to do a couple of things — to make sure that the public release doesn’t com- promise any law enforcement investigations and doesn’t unfairly impugn the reputation of any individuals. Then we’ll be releasing it to the public.

The reason for that is exactly the reason that the member has identified. The people deserve to know what has been going on in British Columbia, what happened under the previous government and why we need to take the measures that we’re taking to get things under control. They made a number of serious errors in judgment. We don’t know whether it was wilful blindness or negligence. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. Hon. D. Eby:The member who is shouting at me is one of the key members, obviously. I understand why he’s defensive about it, but the truth will out. Mr.

Speaker:The Leader, Third Party, on a supplemental. A. Weaver:Thank you to the Attorney General for his answer. Last week the Attorney General said this: “The larger issue that I understand British Columbians are concerned about is really political accountability and to identify if there is rot in the system, to have that rot weeded out through a pub- lic inquiry system. ” He’s absolutely correct. We need political accountability, which is why the B.C. Green caucus has been calling for an independent inquiry for over a month now.

It’s why thousands upon thousands of people have signed peti- tions calling for one and why several organizations, muni- cipalities and unions have also called for one. Last week the Attorney General also said: “The Premier has been clear about keeping the option open to a public inquiry. ” My question is to the Attorney General. When will we know if government is serious about launching a public inquiry? [2:30 p.m.] Hon. D. Eby: The member will know that our emphasis has been on identifying what has been happening and stopping that activity from continuing. That has been the big priority.

The member raises the issue of accountability, especially political accountability. I do think that’s a very important issue, not just for the member, not just for me and not just for the government but certainly for all British Columbians. We’ll be looking at the reports we’ve received, and the Premi- er and the government will make a decision about a public inquiry, if necessary. TAX POLICIES AND GAS PRICES T. Redies:On May 7, 2007, the now Premier said: “Con- sumers have had enough. They’re fed up. They’re being gouged.

They’re being hosed at the pumps, and they want their legislators to do something about it. ” Well, the Premier can now do something about it, like reduce the provincial motor fuel tax or the carbon tax. My question to the Premier is: why, instead, is he hosing people at the pumps? Hon. G. Heyman: We care about the overall finances and the overall affordability for British Columbians. That’s why we’ve taken, and will continue to take, a suite of meas- ures to make life more affordable for British Columbi- an families.

That’s why, despite the fact that the previous government had no plan whatsoever to extend the low- income carbon tax rebate to moderate-income British Col- umbians, we’ve done that. In fact, we’re raising it this year and raising it again in 2021. If you look at CleanBC…. If the members opposite would take the time to look at the climate plan, they would realize that we are building a better future for British Columbians and for their children and grandchildren. We’re also making it more affordable for people to heat their homes and move from point A to point B with a range of incentives and investments.

Monday, April 1, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7967

Mr. Speaker:The member for Surrey–White Rock on a supplemental. T. Redies:With all due respect to the Minister of Envir- onment, I can hardly understand how raising carbon taxes makes life more affordable for British Columbians, particu- larly when you take away the revenue neutrality. On March 21 a year ago, the Premier said: “We are monitoring gas prices, and we will take steps if necessary. We have talked about a range of options, and we will look at those options should prices remain high. ” Prices, of course, have remained high, but all the Premier has done is keep raising taxes. My question.

The Premier has options to provide tax relief. Why hasn’t he used them? Hon. G. Heyman: It’s interesting that the members opposite are taking this tack over one cent a litre at the pump, as important as that is. That money is going into transit. It’s going into increased electric-vehicle-charging infrastructure. It’s going into rebates that will help British Columbians heat their homes and cool their homes far more affordably. Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. Hon. G. Heyman:What would the members opposite do?

The members opposite would cancel the announcement of this government for the largest middle-class tax cut in Brit- ish Columbia’s history, and that’s the elimination of the MSP . The members opposite would continue to drive ICBC and insurance premium rates for British Columbians into the ground and into the stratosphere, respectively. We need no advice from the members opposite on how to make life bet- ter and more affordable for British Columbians. TRANS MOUNTAIN PIPELINE SUPPLY TO REFINERY AND GAS PRICES G.

Kyllo:The Trans Mountain pipeline doesn’t just trans- port bitumen; it transports gasoline and all of the oil that’s refined at the Parkland refinery in Burnaby. But according to government documents, the Burnaby Refinery has been operating at only 80 percent capacity. We need additional pipeline capacity, according to the government’s own docu- mentation. Will this Premier stop blocking a solution to B.C. ’s pain at the pumps? [2:35 p.m.] Hon. G. Heyman:It’s too bad the members opposite are essentially raising issues that don’t deal with the heart of the matter.

We know — and I wish the members opposite would pay attention to this fact — that we have the highest refin- ing margins in Canada and have had for the last nine years. That’s the kind of thing that we would like to see stopped. It’s the kind of thing that independent economists have referred to as “gouging. ” The other thing the member for Shuswap should think about is reports from the union who represents the work- ers at the Parkland refinery who raised the alarm publicly.

For us, one of the effects, if the expansion is built and is filled with diluted bitumen bound for export, will be to squeeze out — squeeze out — the product that comes to Parkland for refining, drive prices up and put British Col- umbians out of work. Mr. Speaker:The member for Shuswap on a supplemen- tal. G. Kyllo:It’s no great surprise that the population of our province is growing. We’ve grown to a little over five million people. We have increased demand for energy, of all demands.

Last spring the Premier received a briefing document on gas prices in Vancouver making it clear that limited pipeline capacity is a big part of the problem. The note reads: “The Trans Mountain pipeline is fully utilized, and refined products such as gasoline are most likely getting squeezed out. ” The government’s own briefing note sets out that there’s pipeline insufficiency. When will the Premier stop blocking the solution to sky- high gas prices in our province? Hon. G.

Heyman: Perhaps the member for Shuswap didn’t understand why the effect of an expansion of the pipe- line dedicated to diluted bitumen for export would actually squeeze out product destined for the Parkland refinery. It’s because once those contracts are signed, the kind of periodic and cyclical need for product to refine at Parkland takes a back seat. There would be less reliability for British Colum- bians, not more. We’re focused on what we’ve been doing since we took our places on this side of the floor.

That’s continuing to build the strongest economy in Canada, the lowest unemployment rate in Canada and greater affordability for British Columbi- ans on a range of fronts. S. Bond: Perhaps the Minister of Environment would want to get a copy of that briefing note before he tries to answer the question. Let’s actually look…. That very same briefing note that was provided to the Premier concluded this: “There is no sign” — and I repeat, no sign — “of non- competitive or unfair business practices. ” The Minister of Environment would probably call that gouging, as would the Premier. No sign — Premier’s briefing note.

After receiving the briefing note, here’s what the Premier got up and said: “It’s not a tax question. It’s gouging and profits for companies. ” Well, apparently, this Premier will say just about anything to avoid accountability. I’m sure the Premier read his briefing note. Why did he 7968 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 1, 2019

read one thing and tell British Columbians something entirely different? Hon. G. Heyman: Perhaps the tepid applause for the member’s point echoes the tepid response of British Colum- bians to the opposition’s attempts to say they’re standing up for affordability. The members opposite are grasping. The reason why there is a shortage of supply on occasion in British Columbia is the shortage of refining capacity and product to refine. The pipeline will not make a difference to that.

Building refiner- ies, perhaps in Alberta, to supply Canada and British Col- umbia might make a difference to that. [2:40 p.m.] We will continue to take actions to address climate pollu- tion, to reduce our emissions and to help British Columbi- ans make that transition by making their lives more afford- able and better, through investing in transit, through invest- ing in rebates for energy efficiency, through providing char- ging infrastructure and rebates for clean energy vehicles, and a range of other things that they are thanking us for on a daily basis and thanking their lucky stars they’re not stuck with the actions of the last 16 years.

Mr. Speaker:The member for Prince George–Valemount on a supplemental. S. Bond:Well, I can assure you that everyone who’s paying any attention to this discussion knows the only person grasping in this House today is the Minister of Environment. Let’s be clear. This Premier is fighting a pipeline that would increase gas supply. He’s increasing gas taxes to more than 51 cents a litre. I think it’s clear that he just needs to look in the mirror to see who is gouging British Columbians. Let’s quote the Premier; let’s quote his words. “The people are fed up, ” he said.

When will this Premier stand up and stop gouging British Columbians at the pumps? Hon. G. Heyman: Perhaps the member for Prince George–Valemount can’t remember the days when she stood next to Gordon Campbell to talk about what a great idea the carbon tax was to ensure that our kids and grandkids had a better future. Perhaps she’s forgotten that it was the previ- ous Premier, Christy Clark, who froze that tax and watched emissions rise while doing nothing — nothing — to make life more affordable for British Columbians.

In fact, the case can be made that the members opposite, when they were in government, gouged British Columbians on a daily basis by doubling MSP premiums, by hiking hydro rates, by driving ICBC into the ground and by doing nothing at all to increase the climate action rebate for low-income British Columbians or considering extending it to middle- income British Columbians to help them when they’re deal- ing with the carbon tax and attempting to make the changes in their lives that would relieve them of the tax and relieve their children and grandchildren of climate pollution. TAX POLICIES AND GAS PRICES J.

Thornthwaite:The NDP is blocking the pipeline and increasing the carbon tax. And to make matters worse, the Premier is hiking TransLink gas taxes even higher. This year gas taxes will reach more than 51 cents a litre. That is ridicu- lous. We are paying the highest gas taxes in North America. Will the Premier please stop this TransLink gas tax gou- ging? Hon. G. Heyman: Today really is back to the future. It’s back to the days when the member for Kamloops–South Thompson stood in this House and defended a referendum that did nothing to extend transit to British Columbia.

It’s a throwback to the days when the member for North Vancou- ver–Seymour applauded her government for clawing back money for bus passes to the neediest and most deserving British Columbians. We’re taking a very, very different approach to British Columbia. We’re helping families by investing in child care. We’re investing in a range of initiatives to make British Col- umbia cleaner and make people’s lives more affordable and more comfortable. The members opposite can say what they want. British Columbians know that they’re better off today.

They’re bet- ter off after 20 months of this government than 16 years of the old one. [2:45 p.m.] Mr. Speaker:The member for North Vancouver–Sey- mour on a supplemental. J. Thornthwaite:The 19 extra taxes do not make British Columbia feel more comfortable or more affordable. Under the NDP plan, the price of gas is going up nearly 6½ cents a litre. That’s $9 every time somebody fills up their car. It’s $18 every time somebody fills up their truck. Will the Premier stop his tax grab? Hon. G. Heyman:Y ou know what makes British Colum- bians more comfortable?

It’s knowing that a couple with a family will no longer have to pay $1,800 a year in Medical Services Plan premiums. It’s knowing… Interjections. Mr. Speaker:Members. Hon. G. Heyman: …that they don’t have to face a 40 percent increase in their hydro rates. It’s knowing that instead of raiding B.C. Hydro of their dollars to sup- posedly balance their budget, and raiding ICBC, that finally they have a government that’s got things under con- trol instead of leaving us in a situation to see insurance rates rise by 40 percent.

Finally, what really makes British Columbians comfortable is knowing that those members Monday, April 1, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7969

are in opposition instead of on this side of the House mak- ing their lives harder every single day. [End of question period.] Orders of the Day Hon. M. Farnworth:In this chamber, I call committee stage on Bill 10. In

section A, the Douglas Fir Room, I call continued estimates debate on the Ministry of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Develop- ment. [2:50 p.m.] Committee of the Whole House BILL 10 — INCOME TAX AMENDMENT ACT, 2019 The House in Committee of the Whole (Section

B) on Bill 10; R. Chouhan in the chair. The committee met at 2:51 p.m. On

section 1. Hon. C. James: By agreement, we have agreed with the opposition that there can be discussion on the agreement which is outside the boundaries of the legislation. The sug- gestion was that we begin with some of the discussion on the agreement, so I’ll leave it to the opposition. M. de Jong:Just for clarification, then, we’ve got a five-sec- tion bill before us in Bill 10, the bulk of which is dedicated to the establishment of a

part 13 for the Income Tax Act. There will be some particular exploration and discussion around that, but all of it relates to an overall agreement that the gov- ernment has arrived at, which has, happily, led to a final investment decision by one of the agencies exploring lique- fied natural gas opportunities in British Columbia. I think it is appropriate that we would have an opportunity to put the legislation in the context of that agreement and, therefore, examine the agreement itself. We’ve had another experience with this in the House two and a half years ago with respect to another agreement.

I’ve just got a series of general questions about how we’ve arrived at this point, with respect to what I’ll call the operating per- formance payment agreement. First of all, the government has posted that agreement. I’m not sure it has been formally tabled in the assembly. We are going to be spending a little bit of time discussing its terms. Was there any particular reason that the…? In our previous discussion around an agreement, the government of the day had legislation, income tax legislation, but made a specific point of formally tabling the agreements that it related to.

I don’t think that’s happened here, and I wonder if there’s a particular reason for that. [2:55 p.m.] Hon. C. James: Thank you to the member for the ques- tion. The existing act, as the member talked about, which defines a particular project agreement, is not the kind of payment agreement that we have put in place with LNG Canada. The project agreements that the member talks about from the previous act — or the existing act, I guess, until we go through this legislative debate — include an indem- nification. That’s really the biggest difference between the agreement that we have in place.

So therefore, it didn’t fit to bring it forward as part of that act because it doesn’t have an indemnification. Nevertheless, we certainly feel that transparency is crit- ical. That’s why, the day that the legislation was tabled, we also made public our agreement that was in place with LNG Canada. M. de Jong:We’ll get to the part of the discussion that dis- tinguishes some of the features of what are the subject of the conversation, the agreement, and agreements that the House has considered in the past. I don’t want to get bogged down on that now. I think my question is fairly straightforward.

Insofar as we are now going to have a specific conversation about a document called the operating performance pay- ment agreement, does the minister think it would be a good idea…? She chose not to attach it as a

schedule to the legisla- tion. She chose not to do that. But at a minimum, my strong suggestion is that it would be appropriate for her to form- ally table the document in the House so that when the record shows we are referring to it, it is a document that has been formally before the House. Hon. C. James:I think the key is to come back to the first answer I gave, which was related to the project agreements act that was in place under the previous government. This agreement that we have in place around performance pay- ments does not, in fact, fit with the previous act.

It is not an appendix to the Income Tax Act, which is what we’re bring- ing in. We’re bringing in the Income Tax Act. It’s a public document that now is available to everyone. We tabled it, as I said, on the day that the legislation was introduced, and it’s available to everyone. Hence, we’re hav- ing that discussion here in the Legislature around a docu- ment that’s readily available. M. de Jong: All right. Well, I’m not going to belabour the point. I suppose I could table the document as well. It just strikes me that an agreement of this magnitude….

We’ll come back to this in terms of the term, the order of mag- nitude of the revenues, the potential revenues and the con- cessions that were made to secure the agreement. It would warrant the government of the day formally pres- 7970 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 1, 2019

enting the agreement to the House. The member, and cer- tainly some of her colleagues, had very specific things to say. This is not about whether it is captured by the provisions of the project development agreement act. This agreement will have to stand or fall on its own. I would have thought that the government would simply want to present it to the House in that context. But as I say, I suppose it is available to me to table the agreement.

I’m surprised that the opposition would need to do so. [3:00 p.m.] I wonder if the minister can talk a little bit about the pro- cess that led to the signing off of the operating performance agreement and how the government organized itself around the negotiations — if, indeed, negotiation is the right term. I think it is. I don’t think anyone has been shy about indic- ating that there were discussions with proponents. But if I’m misusing that term, the minister can tell me. Which ministry, which minister, had and has political responsibility and jurisdiction to guide those negotiations?

Was there a subcommittee of the cabinet that was respons- ible for providing direction? How did the government organize itself around moving through this particular nego- tiation that gave rise to this agreement? [3:05 p.m.] Hon. C. James: I wanted to make sure that I took the time, so I could kind of outline from now until we get here, because I think that’s where the member will go if I give pieces of it — just to kind of run through the timelines for the member. This approach has been a team approach but began with the Premier himself.

This approach began with the Premier’s request for a competitive review to go on. There was previous work, as the member will know well, done by the previous government around competitiveness when it came to LNG. The Premier requested that the three ministers — of Environment, Oil and Gas, and Finance — work together with their staff. That’s where the core started off. Y ou could call that a subgroup, I guess, from the Premier.

But this basically was the core group of people to do that competit- iveness review — to take a look at the previous information and work that had been done by the previous government and to take a look at the current situation in the province and the current situation internationally and nationally — to make sure that that work was done. As that work went on, that group was expanded to include Hydro and to include the government of Canada in gather- ing information and getting information. Then that process continued and led to the Premier’s letter that spoke to our conditions, which came in March.

The Premier’s letter, as the member knows well, is attached as an appendix to the agree- ment. As we reach March, and you saw the Premier’s letter, that work continued. Then the framework went to cabinet and Treasury Board, as would be expected, for their discussion. That continued on until we got to the final investment decision in October. Then from October on, again, utilizing those three ministers and those three ministry staff, the modelling was worked on to bring us to the agreement that we have in the legislation and that’s here today in the House.

M. de Jong: So we’ve got a subgroup, a subcommittee of cabinet, it sounds like. Who’s the chair? Is the Premier the chair? Hon. C. James: Ultimately, the Premier is the chair. He gave the direction to the three ministers and their staff to do the work. So yes, ultimately, the Premier is the chair. M. de Jong: Does it follow, therefore, that as the govern- ment moved beyond the internal determination of frame- works and policy choices that would guide its engagement with the proponent…?

Which ministry took the lead in engaging with the proponent to negotiate the actual terms that we see in the agreement? [3:10 p.m.] Hon. C. James:As I mentioned, it was a team approach as we continued to work as a subgroup, but Finance led the negotiations. M. de Jong: The minister has referred to Treasury Board involvement. I’m not sure if she was referring to Treasury Board involvement in the internal development of a frame- work negotiating mandate or she was referring to treasury review and approval of the agreement, or both.

I guess that’s my question — if the minister can describe the nature of the Treasury Board involvement in this matter. Hon. C. James:That’s correct. It was approval — review and approval, after the agreement was put in place, went to Treasury Board. M. de Jong:Sorry. I don’t think I understood the minister. I thought I heard her say: “ After the agreement was put in place, Treasury Board approval. ” I’m not sure I understand which agreement the minister is referring to. I’m not meaning to stretch this out needlessly.

My thought would have been, or my suspicion would have been that, in developing an internal negotiating mandate, the minister, as the minister responsible for the ministry leading the engage- ment with the proponent, would have secured from Treasury Board and, ultimately, cabinet, a mandate for engagement. And then, when the result of that work was completed and a draft operating performance payment agreement had been arrived at, at the table, that she would have returned to Treasury Board and cabinet for sign-off prior to the parties signing the agreement.

If that is not the sequencing of events, I’m interested to hear what they are. [3:15 p.m.] Monday, April 1, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7971

Hon. C. James: I think it’s important, again, just to go back to the timeline that I started with, which was kind of leading to the Premier’s letter in March 2018, which, again, is part of the agreement, and then leading forward to the FID, the final investment decision, that occurred in October. As I mentioned, the Premier kicked this off with the request to look at a competitive review process. It was then determined that the three ministries and their staff would get that done. Finance led, as I discussed.

So all along the way, from the time the Premier gave that direction through to the Premier’s March letter, the briefing was occurring as we were going on. This wasn’t a “let’s wait until something is done” or “let’s wait until we’ve got a final piece in place. ” I received, in my role as chair of Treasury Board, ongoing briefings some- times every couple weeks, sometimes monthly, depending where the discussions were going. That was then reported out, obviously, to Treasury Board as part of my role but also reported out to cabinet.

Cabinet also had updates as we were going along through this process, which then led, as I said, to the letter that the Premier released in March of 2018. So processes along the way — for myself as chair of Treas- ury Board, obviously the three ministers who were involved and obviously the ministers of cabinet as we went along. M. de Jong: I think I appreciate that there would have been ongoing engagement. I also think my question is more specific, and I have expressed it clumsily.

The agreement — operating performance payment agree- ment — that contains a variety of aspects and covers a vari- ety of topics was, as I understand it, the final piece of the puzzle, as it were. My question is whether, prior to execution, that document was presented to and approved by Treasury Board and cabinet. Hon. C. James: Y es, the contents of the agreement were discussed with both cabinet and myself, as TB chair, as we went along the process.

M. de Jong:I don’t mean to quibble, but I thought I detec- ted the minister perhaps choosing her words carefully, or perhaps not — not that she wouldn’t choose her words care- fully and be entitled to. But she has advised the committee that the contents of the agreement were presented to those two bodies. [3:20 p.m.] My question is a very specific one. Was the draft agree- ment — in the form that we now have, now that it has been executed and made public — in its entirety, prior to execu- tion, considered and approved by Treasury Board and cab- inet? Hon. C.

James:Y es, before the agreement was signed off, the entire agreement was reviewed in detail by priorities and accountability, a committee of cabinet. It was then taken and briefed to cabinet, discussed to cabinet and, obviously, also discussed and gone through in detail with myself as Treasury Board chair. M. de Jong: Thanks. That’s helpful. It sounds, therefore, though, that Treasury Board itself did not consider the final draft agreement prior to execution.

The chair of Treasury Board clearly did, but from the minister’s answer, it appears that Treasury Board itself did not consider or discuss and provide a recommendation around the final draft agreement. Is that correct? Hon. C. James: As Treasury Board chair, I received the briefings, received the updates and certainly reported to Treasury Board. And as the member knows well, the mem- bers from cabinet who sit on Treasury Board are also part of cabinet. So that’s correct. The member is correct. It did not go directly to the full Treasury Board. It came through myself as chair, and it came through cabinet as well.

M. de Jong:I’m recalling my time in the hot seat that the member now occupies. [3:25 p.m.] Is that because it was deemed a minor item? I’m trying to recall. Agreements of a certain magnitude that involved longer-term obligations for government and for which there were fiscal consequences and revenue implications, positive — we hope mostly positive here — but at some times negat- ive, would generally have received consideration by the full Treasury Board, except in instances where something was deemed a minor item. I’ d find it hard to believe that that would be the case here, but was this deemed a minor item?

Hon. C. James: As the member knows well — he has spent more time in this position — the issues that come to the chair of Treasury Board are often ongoing issues, issues that aren’t brand-new, that have continued to be dis- cussed. This certainly, from the time we came into govern- ment and the time the Premier gave the direction to take a look at the competitiveness, was an issue that was con- stantly discussed, reported at Treasury Board, reported to cabinet, discussed at cabinet.

This did come forward to me as chair of Treasury Board because of that, because it was one of those issues that was ongoing and because it was also, as I said, a discussion and a direction given at cabinet. M. de Jong: Again, my purpose is not to unnecessarily delay the examination. I’m a little bit surprised, though, again based on my own recollection of procedures.

In circumstances where significant revenues are at stake, the deferral of tax in excess of a half-billion dollars and a unique arrangement for the collection of that revenue, coupled with all of the other implications that we will get to — again, we hope more positive than negative — I guess it begs asking the question: what is the criteria? Or is there criteria? 7972 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 1, 2019

Or have the government and the minister, in concert with the Premier, determined that it will be for the Minister of Finance to determine on her own which items must be scru- tinized by the full Treasury Board and which items she can deal with individually and unilaterally as the chair of the Treasury Board? To be clear, there are certainly instances that I am aware of in the past where the Treasury Board has not been obliged or the full Treasury Board has not been asked to review an agreement or an approach in its entirety.

I must confess I’m a little taken aback that on what the govern- ment itself has described as the single most significant private sector investment and agreement with the Crown, in this instance, the agreement did not receive considera- tion by the full Treasury Board. [3:30 p.m.] Hon. C. James: I’ll again remind the member that, as chair of Treasury Board, it is my responsibility to ensure that the issues that I’m dealing with have a clear mandate. I had a clear mandate from both the Premier and from cabinet — and from my colleagues at Treasury Board — in continuing those discussions. [J.

Isaacs in the chair.] The members of Treasury Board — as you will talk to our members of Treasury Board — meet frequently. This is not an issue of anybody acting unilaterally. This is an issue of bringing forward things, as the member knows well, that had gone through the Premier, had gone through cabinet and had been reported out. We had a very clear mandate. We went off, as we needed to, to begin those discussions. We reported back on a regular basis, as I mentioned — weekly, sometimes biweekly, monthly — depending on how the discussions were going, which came to the public documents we see.

M. de Jong:When was the agreement signed? Hon. C. James:March 25. M. de Jong: I saw the date on the agreement. The signa- ture blocks were not dated, so I wasn’t sure if the date on the agreement was different. The minister is saying that the date of the agreement reflects the date that the signatures were affixed to it. On that point, I noticed that the contracting party in the operating payments agreement, LNG Canada, is the agent for Shell Canada, North Montney LNG Limited Partnership, PetroChina Kitimat LNG Partnership, Diamond LNG Canada Partnership and KOGAS Canada Ltd.

At page 20, there is a single signature attached, one Mr. Calitz, CEO of LNG Canada. There are three signatures representing the Crown. Why is that? Hon. C. James:The three ministers signed off, as all three ministers have responsibilities for different parts of this agreement. Obviously, the PST fits with Finance, the hydro rates and the issues fit with the Ministry of Energy, and the environmental program that’s coming in place fits with the Ministry of Environment. So all three ministers who have responsibility for pieces of this agreement signed on.

For LNG Canada, they act as the agent, so they have the author- ity to sign one signature. [3:35 p.m.] M. de Jong: Is it the minister’s advice to the committee that there is, therefore, a legal requirement that the Crown be represented by all three ministries? Or, for the purpose of concluding a binding and enforceable agreement, could a single minister have bound the Crown? Hon. C. James: Y es, it is a legal requirement, because those ministers have the legal responsibility to carry out the issues that are identified in this agreement.

Therefore, it’s a legal requirement to have the three ministers responsible for those pieces sign the agreement. M. de Jong: To be clear, there are components of the agreement we’re considering for which each of the three ministers — the Minister of Finance, the Minister of Envir- onment and Climate Change Strategy and the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources — all have specific responsibilities, and the advice the minister received is that it was, therefore, a legal requirement that they be signatories to the agreement. Hon. C. James: Y es.

The advice we got was that the re- quirement for each individual minister was to be responsible for their acts and the actions that they could take under their acts. That’s why you see three signatures here, because those relate to the three areas. As I mentioned earlier, the PST, the Hydro changes and the CleanBC program around energy- intensive industries require three signatures. M. de Jong:That’s helpful.

I guess the obvious question is: having regard, then, for what the minister has advised the committee, will the Minister of Environment and the Min- ister of Energy and Mines be available to answer questions relating to the agreement during these proceedings? Hon. C. James: No, I’ll be discussing it, because this is a piece of legislation which is, obviously, Finance. It’s a tax piece of legislation. We’ve agreed, during this discussion, to open it up to discussions around the agreement, but I’ll be taking those questions.

M. de Jong: Well, the minister is experienced enough to know that I wouldn’t want to take a moment to pause and reflect upon what she has just said. The committee has just been advised that there is a particular legal requirement that Monday, April 1, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7973

flows from specific ministerial responsibilities and that led to her two colleagues signing on to this agreement. [3:40 p.m.] She was very specific. There are specific ministerial and statutory responsibilities that drew them in as signatories on behalf of the Crown. The agreement is now before the House, and the minister has pointed out her consent to that, for which I am grateful. I must say I am of the view that it should not have been necessary to rely on procedural benevolence — that the magnitude of importance attached to this…. But the minister has…. I just want to be clear.

Having told the committee that there are ministers of the Crown who have signed on to the agreement because they are legally obliged to do so and because they have specific legal responsibilities, she has said that the committee will not have an opportunity to question those ministers about the discharge of those responsibilities. I cannot believe that the minister is comfortable with that position, but I will give her an opportunity to consider it, reconsider it or restate it. Hon. C.

James:I certainly expect that the members will have many questions as they go through estimates and indi- vidual ministers, including the ministers who are signatory here — many questions for ministers on all of their duties, including the duties on this agreement. The agreement is here for information, for questions, for discussion, but the agreement is signed and final. As lead of the ministries that were involved, I have been assigned to do the questions and to be able to respond to the questions on the agreement.

Because this is linked, again, to the legislation, which is what we’re here to debate, as Minister of Finance responsible for the legislation, I’ll be answering the questions. But as the member knows well, and as I certainly expect, there will be many questions about the specific programs that may be lis- ted here under each of the ministers’ responsibilities, many opportunities and many chances for the member and for other members to ask those questions. M. de Jong:I’m going to press the point just a little bit and, in so doing, am cognizant of the fact that the minister is a senior minister within the cabinet.

In fact, she is the Deputy Premier. What I think she has just told the committee is the equi- valent of providing an undertaking that…. Despite the fact that the Minister of Environment and the Minister of Energy will not be made available to answer questions about their involvement in the agreement we are discussing, she has undertaken to ensure that when the opportunity presents itself in the ministerial estimates, members will have an opportunity to pose questions, and those questions will be answered to the best of the ministers’ ability.

The Committee of Supply will not be told by either of those two ministers that that was a matter considered at another time and answered by the Finance Minister. I am asking the minister to be very specific and provide the House that assurance that her colleagues will answer the questions that, quite frankly, they should be prepared to answer as part of this proceeding but have been directed or are choosing not to. [3:45 p.m.] Hon. C. James:The member has been in this place longer than I have and knows well that ministers have areas of responsibility, and when it’s estimates, it’s an opportunity to ask questions.

CleanBC is one of the Minister of Environ- ment’s main program areas. He will be answering questions during estimates on CleanBC. The Minister of Energy and Mines has responsibility for Hydro. The minister will answer questions on B.C. Hydro during the estimates. That is an expectation for, I’m sure, members of the opposition, but members here on the government side as well — that you will speak to issues that are related to your portfolio. M. de Jong: I’m not sure that’s quite good enough.

The assurance I am seeking from the Minister of Finance is that her colleagues, the Minister of Environment and the Minis- ter of Energy, will answer questions pertaining to their areas of responsibility with respect to this operating agreement. Y es, we all know what their general areas of responsibility are, but I am seeking, on behalf of the committee, assurance that they will be answering questions. Apparently, they are declining to do so now, when we consider the agreement. Will they be answering questions about their areas of responsibility in this agreement during their ministerial estimates? Hon. C.

James:No one is declining questions, just to be clear with the member. We are discussing a finance bill, a piece of legislation here in the Legislature. We have agreed with the member to bring forward the agreement, to ask some questions on the agreement, even though it’s outside the legislation — to be able to ask some questions around the agreement. I am Minister of Finance, and I’m here with my legislation. That’s why I’m here dealing with these questions. Again, I will say to the member that B.C.

Hydro is the responsibility of the Minister of Energy and Mines, and obviously, PST issues related to BC Hydro will be discussed, I’m sure. If questions are raised, I’m certain that the CleanBC program, which obviously includes the energy intensive pro- gram that is being developed by the Ministry of Environ- ment…. I’m certain there will be questions coming forward from the members. I am certain there will be a good discus- sion and good debate.

M. de Jong: What I’m hearing from the minister is that, if members of the House and the committee wish to pose questions to the Ministers of Environment and Energy on the agreement, they should do so during the estimates pro- cess. If I am correct, we can move on. Hon. C. James:Correct. 7974 British Columbia Debates Monday, April 1, 2019

M. de Jong: This is perhaps a bit of a technical thing. I wonder if I could send a document over to the minister. It’s included as one of the schedules in the agreement. It’s sched- ule C. It’s the OIC. Does the minister have it? Y eah. I wasn’t sure the minister would have it. It’s part of the agreement, so I’m sure she had it, anyway, so she can compare it. I notice that there’s a fourth signature attached, which isn’t necessarily unusual, because, of course, any member of the executive council can sign OICs. But my recollection is that it was necessary to correctly identify the signatory.

When I compare the signature on OIC 512, dated October 2, 2018, purporting to be of the Minister of Energy, Mines and Petro- leum Resources, with the signature on the actual agreement, they look very different. Did the Minister of Energy and Mines actually sign OIC 512? [3:50 p.m.] Hon. C. James:I think the minister whose signature is on the OIC is the backup minister for the Ministry of Energy and Mines and was filling in, obviously, that day when this was signed. M. de Jong:The Minister of Jobs, the minister is advising the committee, is the designated secondary minister for the Minister of Mines?

I think the minister is indicating that’s so. Hon. C. James:During that time period, yes. Correct. M. de Jong: Let’s go to one of the themes that we were hoping to canvass during the course of this conversation and this discussion. In doing so, I’ll send another document, so we don’t have to waste a lot of time, over to the Finance Min- ister. This relates to some discussions that took place with respect to another LNG agreement. They’re comments from the now Minister of Finance. She wasn’t the Minister of Finance at the time. She said this.

This is from July 13, 2015: “ …it seems to me that it would be even more important for a Premier, if they were really look- ing out for British Columbia, to make sure that there were jobs for British Columbians written into this agreement. But no. There are no apprenticeship quotas, there are no training quotas, and there are no job numbers that are in there. ” Then a little bit further down, she talks about the Australi- an project development agreements: “ …specifically require the use of local labour — very specific — they also actually require the use of professional services and local materials.

Australia actually includes a buy-local policy in their project development agreements. They say: ‘If you’re going to come in and utilize a resource that belongs to all of British Col- umbia, you better make sure that British Columbians are the ones who benefit from it. ’” Does the minister agree that those are comments that she made during the course of that debate? Hon. C. James:The member knows; he’s readingHansard. So that’s very clear from the record. I think making sure that there are jobs for British Columbians is critical.

Certainly, in the previous agreement that came forward, there was a lot of discussion about the use of temporary foreign workers. There was a lot of discussion about that concern, and yes, I think that’s critical and important.

It’s part of the reason that I’m so pleased at the work we did with LNG Canada around looking at jobs, around making sure that there was a locals-first agreement, making sure that there were agreements signed with First Nations and making sure that, in fact, there have been commitments already occurred around support for individuals going through the training that will be necessary for these projects. I think that’s critical.

A commitment of apprentices on site, again, is a piece that is not only in place with LNG Canada, but they’ve also required it contractually of one of their contractors, which, again, I think is a very important signal. They’ve started a trades-training fund, which, again, will provide support. Do I believe that jobs are critical and important? Y es, and I believe that the work was an important part of our four con- ditions that we put in place around moving ahead with any kind of project on LNG. [3:55 p.m.] M. de Jong:Well, let’s just pause for a moment.

The criti- cism the then member, now minister, had was a little more specific than that. It strikes me that the relevant portion of her criticism was her demand and her critique — wanting to see guarantees around jobs for British Columbians “written into this agreement. ” What did she mean by that, when she said “written into this agreement”? Hon. C. James: I think I’ve answered the member’s question.

I felt it was important to look at the kinds of sup- ports for local jobs, and I feel that the work we’ve done with LNG Canada has shown that — through their locals- first policy, through their requirement that a contractor will also look at local first, through their commitment to apprentices. Those commitments are critical to the agree- ment that we have in place.

M. de Jong: Let me suggest that what the minister was demanding previously — and I’ll come to her colleagues in a moment because she was by no means alone in laying out this prerequisite for support — was a demand that there be specific guarantees around hiring and procurement in the agreement between the proponent and the Crown. Let me start there. Was the minister, two and a half years ago…? Am I correct in saying that the minister, two and a half years ago, was demanding the presence of those provisions, those guaran- tees, in the agreement between the Crown and the project proponent? Hon. C.

James:Again, I can read again from the specifics Monday, April 1, 2019 British Columbia Debates 7975

that LNG Canada has put together, but yes, I believe it’s crit- ical and important that we have a recognition of the jobs that need to be provided, certainly jobs for British Columbia. The local-first provision that is there, including with the contractor, is critical, from my perspective. The agreements around apprenticeship targets is critical from my perspect- ive.

I certainly feel more comfortable with this agreement than I did with the discussion we were having in 2015 — and the fact that there are commitments in place with the train- ing fund, to already people through that process, including the example of the people that have already been to work in Kitimat in the month of December alone has shown that that provision has been carried out. M. de Jong: I must confess that I’m a little bit confused, because the minister continuously refers to the agreement, and maybe I’ve missed something.

Can the minister point the committee to the provisions of an agreement between the Crown and LNG Canada that speaks to guarantees around local hiring and procurement? I’ll say that again. Can the minister point the committee to specific provisions in the agreement, any agreement, between the Crown and LNG Canada that relate to specific hiring and local procurement requirements? Hon. C. James:I think, as the member knows, this is not a project development agreement. That’s not the process we used. We sat down. We had negotiations with LNG Canada.

We put on the table our four conditions, and we looked at how we could best meet those four conditions. [4:00 p.m.] With the employment plan — outlined, as the member knows, in the letter from LNG Canada, which is public, again — it’s very clear. They have a locals-first hiring policy. They have an apprenticeship percentage

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20190401pm-Hansard-n227
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20190401pm Hansard n227
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	6690c837b6a0807c27a01e09b055eb74f6647b43

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