Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Oral Questions — 14 May 2002 (44th General Assembly, 4th Session, Vol. XLIV No. 23)
2002-05-14
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
May 14, 2002 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY
PROCEEDINGS Vol. XLIV No. 23
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Snow): Order, please!
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Labour.
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would ask for leave to be able to present a Members' Statement today?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave
MS THISTLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In celebration of Atlantic Book Week, being held from May 18-25, I rise today
to recognize writer, Michael Crummey, a native of Buchans -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS THISTLE: - whose latest novel River Thieves is published by
Doubleday Canada, has been nominated for two Atlantic Writing Awards.
River Thieves is nominated for a Booksellers' Choice Award and the
Thomas Head Raddall Atlantic Fiction Prize. These awards will be presented on
May 24 during the Atlantic Book Festival Awards ceremony in Halifax.
Mr. Speaker, I am also pleased to point out that this is not the first
recognition Mr. Crummey has received for his novel River Thieves . River
Thieves was short-listed for the prestigious Giller Prize and won the 2001
Winterset Award for Excellence in Newfoundland Writing. Mr. Crummey's book was
also a finalist for the Books in Canada First Novel Award and the Commonwealth
Writer's Prize for Best Book in the Canada-Caribbean region.
Mr. Speaker, I am sure all members of this House will join me in
congratulating Michael Crummey on his literary achievements and in wishing him
continued success.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
On Saturday, May 11, I had the opportunity to attend a municipal Round Table
discussion, Partner For Success, at the College of the North Atlantic-Placentia
campus. This Round Table discussion was organized by the Avalon Gateway Economic
Development Board and consisted of town councils and local service district
associations throughout the economic Zone 18.
Presentations were put forward by representatives of the Regional Economic
Development Board, Department of Municipal and Provincial Affairs, Department of
Environment, Department of Government Services and Lands, Department of
Industry, Trade and Rural Development, and the Newfoundland and Labrador
Federation of Municipalities. There was great interaction by all present and I
have been informed that plans are being made to organize a followup based on the
success of this event.
The entire day issues important to all municipalities in my district were
discussed including: roles of mayors and councillors; conflict of interest
issues; water systems and water quality; waster management concerns; and
government agencies and their contributions to the Province.
Mr. Speaker, all the people involved with municipal government in my
district, as with most districts in the Province, consist of 100 per cent
volunteers, and I want to take this opportunity to thank them for their
commitment to our Province and to my district. This Round Table discussion gave
all involved an opportunity to share the challenges they all face on a daily
basis, an opportunity to learn from others in the region and most importantly,
an opportunity to explore common avenues that may be able to address some of
their concerns.
Mr. Speaker, I was delighted to have the opportunity to be the guest speaker
for the group luncheon. I spoke on another important issue to the entire region
I represent and that is the Voisey's Bay Development.
All in all, Mr. Speaker, a very successful day for those involved and I
certainly send out congratulations to the -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. MANNING: By leave, Mr. Speaker.
- Avalon Gateway Regional Economic Development Board on the excellent
organization of the Round Table discussion and I wish them all the best in their
future endeavours.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to give tribute to Francis Patey, a writer from St. Anthony on
his recent release of the book Veterans of the North . Mr. Patey contacted
me approximately ten months ago when he started to create a book to honour the
war veterans from the Great Northern Peninsula and coastal Labrador. I was
pleased to assist him with contacts throughout Labrador and to aid him in his
work. These veterans fought valiantly in both World Wars, the Korean War, and
the Gulf War.
Mr. Patey put a considerable amount of time and effort into writing this
book. He visited people from all over Jackson's Arm to Birchy Head and many
areas in between to take notes on war stories and collect photos. Overall, 375
pictures of veterans and seventy pictures of battlefields were collected for
this masterpiece.
To complete this book, Patey spent many long days over nine months doing
research and writing. When the book was completed it landed directly into the
hands of an eager publisher. Creative Book Publishers is an associated company
of Robinson Blackmore and have agreed to take on this task.
Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to congratulate Mr. Patey on the completion
and publication of his book which will help preserve an important part of the
history of this Province. I urge all members to take the time to read his work.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Carbonear-Harbour Grace.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SWEENEY: Mr. Speaker, I rise today to congratulate the winners of the
2002 Skills Canada Newfoundland and Labrador Competition which took place in St.
John's on May 3.
The fifth Annual Provincial Skilled Trade and Technology Competition brought
together about 250 high school, post-secondary, and apprenticeship finalist to
compete in over thirty trade and technology categories.
The winners of the various categories are located across the entire Province,
including several from my own district of Carbonear- Harbour Grace.
This competition was held as part of Skills Day, which also featured a career
fair, several demonstrations, several professional development sessions, and a
tour of the Prince Phillip Drive Campus of the College of the North Atlantic.
The gold medal winners of this competition will now represent the Province in
Vancouver on May 31 and June 1. This competition will be broadcast live via the
Internet for the benefit of all those who may be interested.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate all those involved in Career Day
2002, and wish all finalists best of luck in the Vancouver competition.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Kilbride.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to speak to a matter of provincial importance; to congratulate
the two new MPs who were elected last night.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. John Efford, who was elected in the District of
Bonavista-Trinity-Conception, is with us today. Congratulations to Mr. Efford
and, of course, to -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: - Mr. Rex Barnes, who was elected in the District of
Gander-Grand Falls. On behalf of -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Certainly, on behalf of the Official Opposition, Mr.
Speaker, we want to pledge our support to work with these two new members to
improve our lot within the context of Confederation.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair would like to take this opportunity as well to welcome to the
Speaker's gallery today the former Member of the House of Assembly for the
District of Port de Grave and now the newly elected MP for Bonavista-Trinity-Conception,
Mr. John Efford.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Premier and they concern
generally the provincial economy and government's continued use of an economic
measure called Gross Domestic Product. I would like to ask the Premier this
question: Wouldn't he admit that, for large national economies such as Japan,
the United States, which have huge internal markets, that Gross Domestic
Products, or GDP as it is known, would be an accurate measure of how their
economies are doing? But, for economies like Newfoundland and Labrador, like
Ireland, whose economies are dependent totally, or almost totally, on export
markets, wouldn't he agree that GDP gives a very misleading and false
impression of how our economy is doing? Wouldn't he also agree that all it has
really done for the Premier and the government, in their use of it, is to turn a
struggling economy, particularly in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, into a
statistical boom town?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
What is most important for Newfoundland and Labrador, as everyone in this
Legislature would recognize, is job growth, and that is an indicator that we
have led the country in, in two of the last three years, and projected to lead
the country in again this year. That is the real indicator of whether
individuals and families and communities in Newfoundland and Labrador are better
off today than they were last year.
Everybody here recognizes that we have led and will continue to lead the
country in job growth. I think it was 5,400 jobs last month, compared to a year
ago, and the unemployment rate has gone down to the lowest point since they have
been keeping the statistics in the mid-1970s.
Maybe the Opposition House Leader should have checked with his own leader
before he left, because his own leader, while he does the same as the Opposition
House Leader is doing today, the real Leader of the Opposition, I should add,
talking about GPD and suggesting that we use the statistics, the Leader of the
Opposition has criticized the use of GDP the same way that the Opposition House
Leader is doing today, but then, in a speech to the Tory faithful in the
presence of the national leader, Joe Clark, he indicated that the GDP should be
used as an indicator of the contribution that Newfoundland and Labrador makes to
Canada.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Unlike the Premier, I happened to be present at that speech and that is not
what was said at that speech. In fact, the questions today relate to it. The
Premier can use the continued use of gross domestic product all he wants, but
wouldn't he agree, Mr. Speaker - wouldn't the Premier admit - isn't it a
fact that GDP does not take into account, or it only takes into account, all the
wealth that has been created, that it does not take into account how that wealth
is being distributed amongst regions of the Province? And wouldn't he admit,
Mr. Speaker, that GDP in this Province is primarily being driven by the oil and
gas industry whose profits, almost all of them, are being lost through outside
ownership, corporate profits that are going to be used to benefit regions
outside Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I do recognize that the real Leader of the
Opposition, the Opposition House Leader, has not been at functions where I have
spoken; because, if he was, he would understand, Mr. Speaker, that I do not talk
about GDP. I talk about jobs. Just like I did in the answer to the first
question, I talk about jobs and job growth, and the fact that we do have, since
statistics have been kept in the mid-1970s, the most people working in the
Province of Newfoundland and Labrador since they have been keeping records; it
is in this year, Mr. Speaker. That is real economic growth.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, maybe I should remind him that his leader,
whom he passed it over to so proudly and said: Here, buddy, it is yours - or
whatever he said that day - his leader, to whom he was so proud to pass over the
job, and is now working twice as hard, working twice as hard doing two or three
jobs over there for half the money - I will never understand it, Mr. Speaker; I
will never understand it myself - his leader did say, in the presence of Mr.
Clark, at a fundraising dinner here - not the one a week ago when hardly anybody
showed up in Gander, not that one, when only half as many people showed up in
Gander as they expected, Mr. Speaker, but down here in the hotel in St. John's
- with the federal leader, where the provincial Leader of the Opposition stated
in the presence of the federal leader that the GDP -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Premier now to conclude his answer.
PREMIER GRIMES: - should be used as the real indicator of the great
contribution that Newfoundland and Labrador makes to Canada.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier to take his seat.
PREMIER GRIMES: - and the only indicator that should be used was GDP.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: The real leader of this party is the Member from Humber
West. If the Premier does not understand that, call an election and we will find
out that he is the only real leader in this Legislature, I say to the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Let me ask him this question: Premier, would you not admit
that gross domestic product, GDP, which you so flagrantly used to try to create
a certain perception in the Province, that by ignoring the distribution of
income, that GDP hides the fact that a rising tide doesn't lift all boats, and
that your government's use of this measure is a blatant and misleading attempt
to tell people, particularly in rural Newfoundland and Labrador, that things are
better than they have ever been.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I do recognize that the Opposition House Leader does not appear at public
functions with me and doesn't know what I say on behalf of the government;
good, personal friend of mine that he is. As a matter of fact, again, I don't
understand why he took a cut in pay and is over there working twice as hard as
he always did before, doing his own job and protecting his leader on most
occasions here in the House, that the people of the Province have seen on
television day after day.
Mr. Speaker, the point is this: Economists and people who give financial
statements talk about GDP all the time. I don't talk about GDP. Let me say it
again, Mr. Speaker: I talk about jobs, because that is a real indicator of
whether a person is going to be able to take care of themselves, whether a
family is going to be provided for, whether a community is going to continue to
grow and prosper.
They cannot deny - the Opposition would not dare challenge Stats Canada and
say that the group that has been keeping statistics since the mid-1970s and have
now concluded that there are more jobs in Newfoundland and Labrador in any time
since they have been keeping the statistics, are all wrong and therefore things
must be desperate in Newfoundland and Labrador because there are more people
working than there ever have been.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer.
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, I talk about jobs and we are proud of the
fact that we are the government at a time -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier to take his seat.
PREMIER GRIMES: - when there are more jobs than there ever have been in
the history of the Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
People in the Province who talk to me are no different than the people who
talk to the Premier. The difference is, who is listening and who is not.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: They are confused. They say to me: Ed, what does GDP mean?
It could mean a great day politically, as in today.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Or, Mr. Speaker, it could mean, for the 50,000 people left,
going departed people.
The fact of the matter is this. Now, this is something that the Premier
cannot ignore because this is Stats Canada, too. In view of the fact that he
wants to hang his hat on this issue, on Stats Canada, isn't it a fact that per
capita, GDP, which means the population of the Province as it relates to the
wealth that we are generating, actually portrays population decline as economic
growth? In other words, because 50,000 people have left the Province in the last
five years, that unto itself has contributed to the rise in GDP. Wouldn't you
admit that, Premier?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Again, maybe the Opposition House Leader is a bit confused. He seems to be
the one here today who is obsessed with talking about GDP. Mr. Speaker, it is
not an issue that I have raised in this Legislature today. It is not an issue
that I have brought up. The fact of the matter is, when I travel all over
Newfoundland and Labrador, what is important is whether or not people are
actually working, and to them what is important is whether or not they have an
opportunity to work somewhere close to the community that they would choose and
prefer to stay in and live in, because there are job opportunities in
Newfoundland and Labrador in records numbers. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, many
people in the Province recognize that most of them are here in and around the
capital city and the Avalon region when they would like for them to be more
broadly dispersed all over the Island and into Labrador.
That is what we talk about everyday, Mr. Speaker. That is what we work with.
We do not bother with the statistics other than to say that they are there.
Other people quote them. You cannot get away from them. We do not try to use
them out of context. We recognize that on two factors, GDP and Job Growth, we
happen to be leading the nation which is probably why, for the first time in
thirty-something years, the government received a credit upgrade from the rating
agencies which was unheard of -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now to conclude his answer.
PREMIER GRIMES: - in the seventeen years that the party opposite was in
power.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: So, in not answering the question, I can only assume that
one of the economic policies of the government is to drive 50,000 people out,
drive up the GDP and tell everyone how great it is. That is what this government
has been doing for the last six years.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Let me ask the Premier this question: Wouldn't he admit
that if his government used a more accurate economic measure, called the Gross
Provincial Product, called GPP, that if they used that measure that it would
reflect and take into account and present a more realistic, a more true and
accurate picture of the provincial economy? Is the Premier aware, for example,
that if he used that measure that it would take into account all of the wealth
that the Province has created that has left this Province and would look at
indicators like disposable income, and look at how wealth is dispersed, and
wouldn't he admit that if he used Growth Provincial Product, that the people
of Newfoundland and Labrador would actually see the failure of your economic
policies and this government's economic policies over the last seven to eight
years?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Mr. Speaker, we would gladly use any statistical
indicator that anyone wanted to reference at any point in time because we are
extremely proud of the record of the last seven or eight years. We, by action of
this government, have not driven anybody out of Newfoundland and Labrador. What
we have accomplished is this. We have accomplished almost the complete and total
replacement of the job losses associated with the closure of the cod fishery in
1992, which devastated the Province to the point of taking almost 40,000 to
50,000 jobs out instantaneously. This government, through its diligent,
dedicated effort and commitment has replaced almost every single one of those
jobs and then added a few extras. That is what we have been about, Mr. Speaker,
for the last seven or eight years; not driving anybody out of anywhere, but
providing and replacing opportunities that were lost as a result of an action
taken, unfortunately by a federal Progressive Conservative government that had
no choice at the time. We have dedicated ourselves to making this place better
over time, not trying to drive anybody away, as the Opposition House Leader
would suggest.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: A final supplementary, Mr. Speaker.
Since this member became Premier the only things that I have seen him
accomplish is what is contained in our policy manual of 1999, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Let me ask him this question. If we want a true reflection
of how good the economy is doing under the management of this Liberal
Administration, I would like to ask him these few questions: Would he commit
today to use gross provincial product as the true economic measure of how the
economy is doing? Secondly, if he is so convinced that the economy is doing well
why is it that disposable incomes have not risen in thirteen years anyway? How
is it that we have the highest child poverty rate in Canada? Why is it that
housing starts outside of St. John's are the lowest they have been since 1989?
Why is it that you can continue to stand up and say things are better than they
have ever been when every economic indicator says to you otherwise?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I am glad that the Opposition House Leader, the real Leader of the
Opposition, has raised these particular points because it shows again, Mr.
Speaker, the difference in attitude and approach. Their approach is always to
try to find the negative in any number, try to look at it as the worst case
scenario, try to see the glass as half empty. Our attitude, Mr. Speaker, is to
recognize what is in all of the statistical indicators, try to find what is good
for Newfoundland and Labrador, to build on it, and see the glass as half full.
It is all about attitude and approach.
Mr. Speaker, I commend him on waving around the Blue Book - I do not have a
copy - the Blue Book for 1999 because it was his platform, Mr. Speaker, in which
he, when he was the real leader - he is still the real leader but he actually
had the title. He put in a statement saying: we believe in research and
development and we will promote research and development. Now, the leader from
Humber West will not allow research and development to occur in Placentia
because it might cause something good to happen for Newfoundland and Labrador.
So, I guess in that sense he is not the real leader anymore -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: - because the Blue Book that he wrote and ran an election
on very successfully, Mr. Speaker, almost successful enough to form the
government, great vote for his party. But, now parts of his platform -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. Premier now to conclude his answer, quickly.
PREMIER GRIMES: We still believe in it, Mr. Speaker, because the good
ideas that were in it, we will gladly do them any day because we are a
government committed to action; not arguing over who owns the good idea, but the
good idea, we will gladly implement it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, the Premier has chosen today to focus on jobs,
as it relates to how wealth is disbursed in regions of the Province and how well
we are doing. I would like to ask him this question. How is it, Mr. Speaker,
that this Premier and this government continues to advocate that ore will leave
this Province for a period of thirty to thirty-five years without knowing where
it is going to come back? How is it that he continues to advocate that ore from
Voisey's Bay Nickel will create jobs in Sudbury and Thompson, Manitoba? How
does that, Premier, square with your vision of creating jobs in Newfoundland and
Labrador?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
PREMIER GRIMES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Let me shed some light on that matter from two points of view. One, Mr.
Speaker, is this, in the latest statistics last month from Stats Canada, the
unemployment rate went down in every single region of the Province except St.
John's and the Avalon Peninsula, where it went up. Now, the unemployment rate
did not go down in Central Newfoundland and the South Coast and the West Coast
and the Northern Peninsula and the Labrador because people were not going to
work, and it did not go up in St. John's. The unemployment rate went up in St.
John's, and it did not go up, only for one reason: more people went looking
for work than actually got work. So people went to work all over the Province.
That is what is recorded through the statistics everywhere.
On the issue of ore leaving the Province, Mr. Speaker, maybe I have not made
myself clear. We have never negotiated, and are not negotiating now, any
proposal to have any ore leave Newfoundland and Labrador, ever. We are
negotiating a proposal that sees the ore being made into a concentrate which
goes through an $800 million plant that employs 500 or 600 people. But, it is
not new to you because your ad campaign seems to say: We will ship ore out of
the Province.
We will not ship ore out of the Province. We never have planned to ship ore
out of the Province. We are not planning it now, we were not planning it last
year, and we are not planning it next week. We will talk about the details if we
can get a deal, which the Opposition is frightened to death that we might
actually get a deal, and we will gladly deal with it.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
PREMIER GRIMES: Let me make that clear, Mr. Speaker. For clarity for the
Opposition, who are running a false ad campaign about ore -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. the Premier now conclude his answer quickly.
PREMIER GRIMES: - we are not proposing that a single spoonful of ore ever
leave the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, this morning the national news headlines
talked about the health care system facing difficulties. There was a report that
was prepared for the Deputy Ministers of Health in the country, that concludes
that the health system is having some serious difficulties. Mr. Speaker, that is
no real news to us, not in this Province, but of particular note is the
commentary -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Of particular note, Mr. Speaker -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I was saying, of particular note is the commentary about our public health
system. Given the most recent events, and given our mismanagement and disjointed
approach in dealing with the arsenic issue in Chapel's Cove, can the minister
tell us today what changes he has made in the system to ensure that the people
of this Province have confidence that someone is out there protecting their
health?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, the one thing this minister can say with absolute
certainty is that the hon. member opposite certainly does nothing on a daily
basis to raise the confidence level of anyone in this Province. If you were to
listen to him -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, every day that the hon. member rises, it is
nothing but doom and gloom. I would suggest to him that he might take time to -
surely it is a matter of whether the glass is half empty or half full. Surely,
from his perspective, it cannot be always half empty.
The report that he references, Mr. Speaker, talks about the issues of public
health, and he raises a very important issue to all of the people of this
Province. I say to him, and I say to all the people in this Province, and hon.
members in this House, that this government is committed to trying to ensure
that the health of the people of this Province is protected -
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. minister now to conclude his answer.
MR. SMITH: - whatever measures are required.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I remind the minister that I ask questions
that are pertinent to the people of the Province and I am glad that he
acknowledges that they are important questions.
Can the minister now, today, advise this House whether or not his department
has conducted a complete review of public health services in this Province, and
be able to restore confidence in this Province's ability to address the issues
of environmental health, disease prevention, and health promotion. Has he
conducted that kind of comprehensive review?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, yes, in fact, this department, along with the
other departments that the hon. member has referenced, have been working quite
closely and we have an ongoing committee that is looking at the issues that the
hon. member references. We are, on a regular basis, monitoring and dealing with
issues that arise in this Province. I also indicate and remind the hon. member,
as I said to him in this House on a number of occasions, in response to other
matters that he has raised, that we are at the present time developing a
strategic health plan which we have said, and I have said in this House, that I
will be rolling out in a matter of weeks to all of the people of this Province,
a strategic health plan that will lay down a framework that will give direction
to all of the policies that are presently in place, and it will be developed in
the years ahead.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Trinity
North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, it is probably a good time to ask this
question, if the strategic plan is coming out soon. Will the minister finally
acknowledge that government's current approach of fragmentation and dividing
those issues between environment, between government services and health and
community services, has created problems and is not in the best interests of the
public of this Province? And, will he finally acknowledge that the whole issue
of environmental health should come under the auspices of the Province's
medical health officers?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SMITH: Mr. Speaker, I am glad that the hon. member provides me with
the opportunity to speak again to the strategic health plan, which I have
indicated we will be introducing shortly, and to remind the hon. member and all
hon. members of this House, that it is, in fact, a Liberal government that
started, first of all, the Strategic Economic Plan, that followed up with a
Strategic Social Plan, which is a model for everyone in this country, and it is
this government that will deliver on the strategic health plan.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
My question is for the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation. It is
regarding the
section of highway between the Ashuanapi River and the Esker
turnoff, that has deteriorated to the extent where it is a danger to the
travelling public, it is a deterrent to tourism, and it is a hazard to truckers
who depend on this road to make their living and causing them huge repair bills
as they travel over the road.
I ask the minister: Given the short season in Labrador, when will work begin?
Because you have committed to doing some work on that section, when will that
work begin? How much money are you committing to it, and how many kilometres do
you intend to upgrade?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We announced in the budget that we were going to do some work on that
particular
section of the road. We have allocated $800,000 to do the work and we
anticipate that it will probably be around thirty-five kilometres.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hon. the Member for Labrador West.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I ask the minister what he intends to do about the other 100 kilometres that
is in just as bad of shape, because that
section of the road is about 130
kilometres? The least, I say to the minister, you could do - seeing you are
taking $97 million from the transportation agreement - is leave us with good
roads to drive on, as a start. I ask the minister what he intends to do about
the other 100 kilometres of road that, according to your statement just now, you
do not intend to touch, that is in just as bad a condition as the thirty
kilometres you are planning to repair?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The money for this
section of the highway is coming out of the Provincial
Capital Roads Program. We announced $800,000 to do thirty-five kilometres. We
have the same situation in a lot of districts. I visit most districts in this
Province. We have a lot of roads that need repairs, and each district will get
an allocation in terms of doing some work. We are doing the same thing in
Labrador West as we are doing in other districts around this Province. Tenders
will be called for this work within the next two or three weeks and hopefully,
within the next month or so, the work will be finished.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the Member for Labrador
West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It may be true what the minister is saying, but the difference is other
districts did not have $97 million in a fund that they could use for
transportation. I ask the minister again: Why does he not commit funding that
will take care of the 120 kilometres of road that needs to be done rather than
just thirty and leaving the rest in a state of disrepair which people will not
travel over and that has caused truckers, who are making their livelihoods,
untold problems?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BARRETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I want to remind the hon. member that the money in the Labrador
Transportation Initiative Fund was not allocated to do the roads in Labrador.
The money that was in that fund was to provide marine services in Labrador and
what this government has done is said that we will finance the marine services
in Labrador, as we did on the Southwest Coast of Newfoundland. Back in 1995
there was $55 million that was allocated for the Southwest ferry services and we
rolled it into the general revenue of the Province because it was the best
fiscal thing to do.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. BARRETT: It was the best fiscal thing to do.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask the hon. minister now to conclude his answer.
MR. BARRETT: The money that was in that Transportation Initiative Fund
was to provide marine services. What this government has done is committed to
the Phase III of the Trans-Labrador Highway, and we will continue to the fund
marine services now, forever, out of provincial revenues.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I would like to ask the Minister of Environment, considering we have over
400,000 vehicles registered in this Province, between 6 million and 8 million
litres of oil drain from engines every year in this Province, if he could tell
us what happens with that oil? How much of it is recycled? How much of it is
dumped, such as in drums in the White Hills, the ecological sensitive area of
White Hills that it was dumped in last week? When is the minister going to
implement a Province-wide, provincially run, oil recycling program to eliminate
that type of risk from happening again?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Environment.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I appreciate the question from the Opposition critic. That is an issue that
we intend to deal with, Mr. Speaker. As a matter of fact, we will have
regulations forthcoming very shortly and a program will be announced in very
short order to help deal with the issue. As we are dealing with waste management
in the Province with a full waste management strategy for the Province, which
has just been recently announced and which is getting a very good public
response. That is a serious issue. It is on our list to deal with, and there
will more details very shortly.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Question Period has ended.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Labour.
MS THISTLE: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present the 2001 Annual Report
of the Workplace Health, Safety and Compensation Review Division. This annual
report highlights the activities of the review division through 2001 and further
reflects the results of this government's commitment to assist injured workers
and employers with the Worker's Compensation system in Newfoundland and
Labrador.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I stand today to move the following
Private Member's Resolution:
WHEREAS there is only one MRI scanner in the Province, located at the Health
Sciences Centre in St. John's, and an independent study on the future
direction of health care recommends the Province should have at least two, and
possibly three, MRI scanners; and
WHEREAS the Western Health Care Corporation, the Central West Health Care
Corporation and the Central East Health Care Corporation, which provide health
care services to 202,000 people in 153 communities, recommend the purchase of a
mobile MRI scanner that can be shared between Corner Brook, Grand Falls-Winsor,
and Gander, and have agreed that an appropriate
schedule can be arranged which
would provide a high level of diagnostic services to patients in this area; and
WHEREAS diagnostic imagining with an MRI scanner saves lives, reduces the
severity and duration of illness, and reduces health care costs through early
detection, diagnosis and treatment of major health problems; and
WHEREAS the availability of state-of-the-art diagnostic technology in western
and central regions of Newfoundland and Labrador will help in the recruitment
and retention of medical specialists in such areas as radiology, neurology,
cardiology, and oncology;
THEREFORE
BE IT RESOLVED that the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
allocate funding to purchase a mobile MRI scanner to provide medically necessary
diagnostic services to the 202,000 people who live in western and central
Newfoundland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's West.
MS S. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I want to move the following Private Member's Resolution:
WHEREAS until several years ago, retail employees in this Province were
guaranteed by provincial law to have holidays on the Sunday of Mother's Day,
the Sunday of Father's Day, the Sunday of the Victoria Day weekend and the
Sunday of the Labour Day weekend; and
WHEREAS the government's decision to amend the Shops' Closing Act to
permit Sunday shopping had the consequence of removing from retail employees the
privilege they had long enjoyed of spending Mother's Day, Father's Day, the
Sunday of the Victoria Day weekend and the Sunday of the Labour Day weekend with
their families; and
WHEREAS in the years since the inception of Sunday shopping, many retail
employees have discovered, to their dismay and to the disappointment of their
children, that they are paying a hard price for having to work on important
family days, especially days such as Mother's Day and Father's Day that are
widely celebrated and intrinsically defined as family days, instead of spending
those days with their families; and
WHEREAS Newfoundlanders and Labradorians still treasure the closeness of
their families, still cling to the long-held family traditions that make us who
we are, still look forward to family get-togethers to celebrate Mother's Day,
Father's Day, the 24 th of May weekend and the Labour Day weekend,
and would be only too wiling to sacrifice at least some of their Sunday shopping
privileges in order to ensure that our retail employees again have the privilege
of enjoying those special occasions each and every year with their families, a
privilege that so many others in our Province take for granted;
THEREFORE
BE IT RESOLVED that this hon. House urge the Government of
Newfoundland and Labrador to amend the Shops' Closing Act to designate the
Sunday of Mother's Day, the Sunday of Father's Day, the Sunday of the
Victoria Day weekend and the Sunday of the Labour Day weekend as shops'
closing holidays.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I am wondering if we could revert back to
Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Committees? I have a report that I
wanted to present to the House.
MR. SPEAKER: Is it agreed that we report back to Presenting Reports?
AN HON. MEMBER: Yes.
MR. SPEAKER: Agreed.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The Social Services Committee have considered the matters to them referred,
and have directed me to report that they have approved, without amendment, the
Estimates of Expenditure of the following departments: Education; Youth Services
and Post-Secondary Education; Human Resources and Employment; Labour; Health and
Community Services; and Justice.
Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the Officers of the House and Hansard for their
cooperation, and also to thank and acknowledge the members of the Committee: the
Member for Placentia & St. Mary's; the Member for Harbour Main-Whitbourne;
the Member for Trinity North; the Member for Burin-Placentia West; the Member
for Port de Grave; and the Member for Humber East.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Petitions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition from the people of Leading Tickles, in the
District of Exploits, and the petition reads:
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to bring any proposed Voisey's Bay deal to the House of Assembly for full
disclosure and thorough debate prior to the signing of any final agreement by
the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, these are petitions that are beginning to emerge and come into
our offices from across the Province. Yesterday, some members in this House went
as far as to say, that was only one petition from the district that I represent,
the District of Kilbride which incorporates the Goulds, and other parts of the
City of St. John's, but that is not the fact. The fact of the matter is that
even today this is from the community of Leading Tickles.
People in the Province cannot seem to understand this fundamental question
and the government's answer to it. On the one hand, when asked in this
Legislature - and I asked this question, and our Leader has asked it on numerous
occasions as well - when asked to the former Deputy Premier, the former Member
for Bonavista North, Mr. Beaton Tulk: Would government bring that deal, once it
is done, to the House of Assembly for fair and open debate in a transparent and
accountable way before the deal is final and binding on the people of the
Province? He said, emphatically, yes.
The next day, when asked the same question, the Premier of the Province, the
Member for Exploits - who was asked directly, because I asked it to him at the
time, and our leader has asked it to him - when asked the question again, the
very next day, the answer was, emphatically, no.
All this petition is asking for today - and it is from the Premier's
district - people all over the Province are asking the same question: Why is it
that government will not make that commitment? Why is it that if a deal is
signed, or a deal is negotiated between the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador and the Voisey's Bay Nickel Company, which is a subsidiary of Inco,
why is it that government is so adverse to bringing the arrangements, the
conclusions, the fiscal arrangements, ore that is leaving, the amount of
employment that will be created, the amount of revenues that will be generated,
any aspects dealing with the federal-provincial relations as it relates to
equalization, why is it that government will not table that agreement in this
House or on the floor of this House for each and every member of this Chamber
and of this Legislature, duly elected members, to have their right exercised by
debating such an important matter?
The other question that people ask with respect to the prayer of this
petition, in asking the question, why? they also ask another question: If the
government does not want to do it, there has to be a reason. They have the
majority; they can make it happen.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. E. BYRNE: By leave, Mr. Speaker?
PREMIER GRIMES: No leave.
MR. E. BYRNE: The Premier has said, no leave to clue up. None?
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: No leave.
The hon. the Member for Trinity North.
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, I have a petition to present to the House
on behalf of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. I will just read the
prayer of the petition. It says:
WHEREAS Inco Deputy Chair and CEO Scott Hand told the company's
shareholders on April 17, 2002, "we hope to be shipping Voisey's Bay
concentrate to Thompson, Manitoba, and Ontario, as part of an eventual agreement
reached with the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador" and that "We
remain hopeful that the combination of exploration, technology and external feed
will enable us to keep those operations productive and competitive for a long
time to come";
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to bring any proposed Voisey's Bay deal to the House of Assembly for full
disclosure and thorough debate prior to the signing of any final agreement by
the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, just very recently, I had an opportunity to speak to the Rotary
Club in Clarenville, where this was the very focus of our discussion. Pretty
well to the person, they agree and concur that in fact, yes, if this is such a
wonderful deal, if this is a great deal for the Province of Newfoundland and
Labrador, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with it being debated fully in
this House by all members of the Legislature.
The other night, I was driving and I happened to hear the Member for
Conception Bay East & Bell Island on the radio talking about how he was
pretty confident that the deal on Voisey's Bay would come back to his caucus,
to twenty-eight members in this Legislature, for a full discussion. In fact, he
likened it to the caucus discussion on Newfoundland Hydro, several years ago. He
was suggesting, Mr. Speaker, that there is going to be a debate, there is going
to be a full discussion within the twenty-eight districts in this Province. In
other words, Mr. Speaker, twenty-eight members of this House will get an
opportunity to represent their districts and to have a full discussion on the
Voisey's Bay deal when the remaining twenty districts in this Province and the
remaining twenty people in this Legislature will not ever get an opportunity for
a discussion and a debate on the Voisey's Bay deal before it is signed.
I ask, Mr. Speaker, in the interest of fairness and in the interest of having
a government that says it is open and fully accountable to all of the people.
One thing government needs to recognize is that they represent the entire
Province and not just the issues and the interests of twenty-eight Liberal
districts. That is their full responsibility, to ensure that there is a full
disclosure and a full discussion, open to all people in this Province, open to
the people who were elected in all forty-eight districts and not just limited to
the views of what might be twenty-eight members of this Legislature who are of
like minds and who are being directed by the same leader.
Mr. Speaker, we can hardly say that is a full, open disclosure. We can hardly
say that reflects an open and fully accountable government when in fact there is
going to be a very limited discussion, not in this Legislature but in the
privacy of an isolated caucus room, that there will be that discussion within
that very select group of people.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. ROSS WISEMAN: By leave, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.
MR. SPEAKER: No leave.
The hon. the Member for Humber East.
MR. MERCER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It is my pleasure today to present a petition, one of a continuing series of
petitions that I have been presenting in the House on behalf of some nineteen
residents from the communities of Lark Harbour, Pasadena, Deer Lake and Corner
Brook.
The petition, Mr. Speaker, is in the form as prescribed and is a petition
requesting and lobbying the provincial government to implement the Nycum Report
for a long-term health care facility in Western Newfoundland.
Mr. Speaker, the Western Health Care Corporation has commissioned a study, it
has been done and completed by the Nycum Group, and they have recommended that
in the Corner Brook area we would construct a new long-term care facility of
some 268 beds that would last the needs for the West Coast area up until the
year 2016.
The situation as we have it right now in Western Newfoundland, Mr. Speaker,
is like we have in many parts of the Province, and that is: we have a declining
but also an aging population. The facilities that have been built there are
insufficient to meet the current need.
As I have said in previous petitions, we have in the Western region some
three long-term health care facilities in and around the Corner Brook area. I
have previously described the Interfaith Home and the O'Connell Centre.
The third facility, Mr. Speaker, that we have right now in Western
Newfoundland is the fifth and sixth floors of the Western Memorial Hospital,
facilities that were renovated in 1991 to accommodate long-term health care. At
present, Mr. Speaker, there are some sixty-two beds on the fifth and sixth
floors. Fifty-two are accommodating Level III patients, thirty-one of whom are
protective care - patients who are suffering from dementia of different forms.
Also, four Level IIIs and six transitional care.
These are in the Western Regional Hospital, Mr. Speaker, the secondary
hospital for the Province for referrals. At this point in time in Western
Newfoundland, we are facing a situation where we are using many of our acute
care beds for medically discharged patients, patients who would be better
accommodated in a long-term health care facility but, because of the shortage
within the Corner Brook Western Newfoundland region, these people are taking and
using beds; and rightfully so, in my opinion, Mr. Speaker, because there is
nowhere else that they can go.
There are other policies that could be brought into place, like a first bed
available type of basis, but that would mean taking some of our patients, Mr.
Speaker, and moving them outside of the Corner Brook area, away from family and
friends. There is a desperate need at the moment in the Corner Brook area.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. MERCER: Just for a second to conclude?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.
MR. SPEAKER: No leave.
The hon. the Member for Windsor-Springdale.
MR. HUNTER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative
session convened: the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and
Labrador.
WHEREAS Inco Deputy Chair and CEO Scott Hand told the company's
shareholders on April 17, 2002, "we hope to be shipping Voisey's Bay
concentrate to Thompson, Manitoba, and Ontario, as part of an eventual agreement
reached with the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador" and that "We
remain hopeful that the combination of exploration, technology and external feed
will enable us to keep those operations productive and competitive for a long
time to come";
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to bring any proposed Voisey's Bay deal to the House of Assembly for full
disclosure and thorough debate prior to the signing of any final agreement by
the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador;
And as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, petitions are presented to prevent mistakes, and some petitions
are presented to fix mistakes. Mr. Speaker, I sat in on the Resource Committee
meetings last week and I asked lots of questions through every department in the
Resource Committee; but, Mr. Speaker, when I was asking questions on Mines and
Energy, the minister answered some of those questions in a way that we were not
really happy with. He alluded to it yesterday, Mr. Speaker, when he said that we
were jumping from clause to clause and page to page.
I say to the minister and to you, Mr. Speaker, and to the people on that
side, that we have a responsibility to ask questions in debate, and that is what
we did. If it took six hours, then so be it; because this is an important issue
to this Province today. We cannot let things happen in our resources and our
mines that happened over the years, Mr. Speaker.
We can look around this Province today and we can see many mistakes, many
mistakes over the years that created short-term jobs but long-term pain for a
lot of people in this Province. Mr. Speaker, I can give an example of some of
those with respect to Gull Pond, Hope Brook, Pilley's Island, Little Bay,
Buchans. There are a lot of areas, Mr. Speaker, that can show us what mistakes
were made over the years, and it is our responsibility to make sure that these
mistakes do not happen again.
I say to the minister, maybe the Premier doesn't know exactly what is going
on with respect to a Voisey's Bay deal, but I would say Scott Hand does. Scott
Hand, in his remarks to his annual meeting on April 17, alluded to the fact that
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. HUNTER: By leave, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.
MR. SPEAKER: No leave.
MR. HUNTER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. FITZGERALD: Mr. Speaker, he cannot take away leave. He is out of his
own seat.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for Placentia & St. Mary's.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I, too, would like to stand and present a petition:
To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative
session convened, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and
Labrador;
WHEREAS Inco Deputy Chair and CEO Scott Hand told the company's
shareholders on April 17, 2002: "we hope to be shipping Voisey's Bay
concentrate to Thompson [Manitoba], and Ontario, as part of an eventual
agreement reached with the government of Newfoundland and Labrador" and
that "We remain hopeful that the combination of exploration, technology and
external feed will enable us to keep those operations productive and competitive
for a long time to come";
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to bring any proposed Voisey's Bay deal to the House of Assembly for full
disclosure and thorough debate prior to the signing of any final agreement by
the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador, as in duty bound your petitioners
will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, this is a very important petition put forward, and several of my
colleagues have put forward petitions on behalf of many residents of
Newfoundland and Labrador made to the same topic. We believe on this side of the
House, and we believe that the majority of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians
believe, that such an important deal as Voisey's Bay, such an important deal
to the future of this Province, such an important deal to the people of this
Province should be brought here to the floor of the House of Assembly before it
is signed, sealed and delivered with Inco, because the people of the
Newfoundland and Labrador deserve to know what is in the deal. The people of
Newfoundland and Labrador deserve to know what the details are, what exactly is
in the deal for the future, what exactly is in the deal that will compensate the
people of Newfoundland and Labrador for a very, very rich resource that we have
in Voisey's Bay. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, the petitioners have put forward
these petitions in hope that, at least, in pressing upon the government of the
day, in pressing upon Premier Grimes and especially the Minister of Mines and
Energy, Mr. Matthews, the importance of bringing this deal to the people of the
Province.
Mr. Speaker, we all know the promises that were made in the past in relation
to Voisey's Bay. We all know the comments by the former Premier Brian Tobin.
We know the comments that were put forward by the former Premier Beaton Tulk. We
know the promises that they made in relation to dealing with the situation of
Voisey's Bay. Therefore, we ask and the petitioners ask that a deal, before it
is finalized, before it is signed, sealed and delivered, before the future of
the people of this Province is signed, sealed and delivered with Inco, that we
get an opportunity to look at the deal, to ask questions on the deal, to
critique the deal, to make sure that the promises that were made to the people
in Labrador, that the promises that were made to the people in the Argentia
area, that the promises that were made to, indeed, all the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador are kept. The only way we can do that and show that,
Mr. Speaker, is do that before the deal is signed.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. MANNING: We have all seen, Mr. Speaker, the past. We have all seen
deals that were made in the past.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.
MR. SPEAKER: No leave.
MR. MANNING: By leave, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member does not have leave.
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. MANNING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the members opposite for the opportunity, by leave, to clue up my
remarks.
Mr. Speaker, it is a very important topic to the people I represent. It is a
very important topic to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. That is why it
is very important that we bring it here to the floor of the House of Assembly. I
know that there are members on that side of the House who want this brought here
to the House of Assembly. I know that there are members there who want to fully
debate it. I know there are members opposite who want to let the people of
Newfoundland and Labrador know exactly what is in this deal before it is signed,
sealed and delivered. Before our future is sold down the drain we want to make
sure that this is a good deal for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador.
We have seen deals in the past, Mr. Speaker. We have seen deals on the Lower
Churchill. We have seen deals on Marystown. We have seen deals that have been
signed; that have been too late once they are signed. We had Friede Goldman - I
talked to a gentleman the other day who called it Freebie-Goldman. Well, we do
not want a freebie-Inco. I say it is very important that we make sure we get a
good deal for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador and that we have a good
deal brought here to the floor of the House of Assembly for a full and thorough
debate before it is signed, and that is what these petitioners ask.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Labrador West.
MR. COLLINS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to present a petition on behalf of residents of Labrador West
concerning the Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund.
The petition is addressed to the hon. House of Assembly in the Province of
Newfoundland and Labrador assembled and the undersigned residents of
Newfoundland and Labrador;
WHEREAS the Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund was set up with $347.6
million from the federal government for transportation in Labrador; and
WHEREAS the Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund Act requires that money
in the fund be used for the maintenance of marine and ferry services to
Labrador, construction of the Trans- Labrador Highway, and other initiatives
related to transportation in Labrador; and
WHEREAS the Liberal Government announced in the 2002 Budget that $97 million
would be taken out of the Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund and added to
general revenues of the Province to be used for purposes outside the act.
We the undersigned petitioners believe that the raiding of the Labrador
Transportation Initiative Fund is a gross violation of the purposes of the Fund
and a breach of trust with the people of Labrador and hereby petition the hon.
House of Assembly to direct the government to immediately put this $97 million
back into the Labrador Transportation Initiative Fund to be spent on
transportation initiatives in Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, this petition was the subject of the question that I asked the
minister today in Question Period. Quite frankly, I am sure that the people in
Labrador who heard the minister's response are more concerned today after
hearing his response than they were prior to my asking the question. Because,
all along it was assumed that this government, this year, would put in place the
proper amount of money to upgrade the
section of road that is deteriorated right
now between Ashuanipi Bridge and the Esker turnoff, a road that is a danger to
the travelling public and is a disgrace for any tourist to visit this Province
that would like to travel over that
section of road. It is a total disgrace to
the Province that they should have to drive over conditions that you would
expect back in the 1930s and 1940s.
When the minister said today, in response to my question, that this money in
the fund was not to be used for upgrade of roads, I disagree with the minister.
I say that this money in this fund has been used for that purpose traditionally
and it can continue to be. But, I can also say to the minister that the people
of Labrador, and the entire Province, are fully aware that the $97 million
certainly was not intended to reduce the deficit that they have built up over
the last number of years.
The people of Labrador, Mr. Speaker, are very concerned with the inability of
this minister and this government to give them any consolation whatsoever that
any improvements will be made to transportation on the Trans-Labrador Highway in
this coming year. I think that the minister ought to review this in light of
what he said today because there is not much point of fixing up thirty-five
kilometres of road on a
section that is 130 kilometres long and leave - both
ends are in the middle - huge sections of (inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. COLLINS: By leave, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, to leave sections of that road in the terrible
condition that it is and to spend money doing up a
section in the middle of that
or on either end, does not make sense at all. If you are going to do the job, I
say to the minister, do it right and do it proper. Just do not do it piecemeal
and leave the conditions that are there now to continue to exist for years to
come.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for St. John's South.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I have a petition on Voisey's Bay signed by the residents of St. John's
South:
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to bring any proposed Voisey's Bay deal to the House of Assembly for full
disclosure and thorough debate prior to the signing of any final agreement by
the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador.
Mr. Speaker, I support this petition, and here are just a couple of the
reasons why. We have seen a number of resources in the past that we have made
bad deals on. This resource belongs to the people of the Province. This is the
people's resource and the people of this Province have every right to know the
details of what is in any deal between Inco and the Government of Newfoundland
and Labrador prior to that deal being signed. We know that most people in the
Province are against having any ore or any concentrate shipped out of this
Province unprocessed. We know that most people in this Province want the jobs to
be created in this Province and we know that most people in this Province do not
believe that we are safe in saying that in thirty-five years' time Inco will
give us back the ore, and for a number of reasons.
We do not know where that ore will come from in thirty-five years' time. If
Inco takes the ovoid, which is the most profitable, most accessible body of ore
in Labrador, and that is gone in thirty-five years' time, they can say: It is
simply not viable to send ore back to the Province. We do not even know if the
hydromet process is going to work, and this government is willing to risk having
our resource sent out of the Province with some guarantee that it may come back
in thirty-five years' time. It may come back.
We had a guarantee on the Marystown Shipyard. We had a guarantee that if
Friede Goldman did not supply the man hours of work required to fulfill that
guarantee, they would be fined $5 million a year. Do you know what? That
guarantee was never fulfilled. Government did not pursue or push that guarantee.
Friede Goldman sold the Marystown Shipyard for millions of dollars, and yet
government did not collect the $10 million in penalties that were owed to the
people of this Province. Mr. Speaker, thirty-five years is an awful long time to
gamble with our resources.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. T. OSBORNE: We do not know that the hydromet process is going to
work.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MR. T. OSBORNE: By leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. T. OSBORNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for The Straits & White Bay North.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today as well to present a petition on Voisey's Bay. I will read
briefly from the petition.
To the hon. House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador in legislative
session convened: the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and
Labrador
WHEREAS Inco Deputy Chair and CEO Scott Hand told the company's
shareholders on April 17, 2002, "we hope to be shipping Voisey's Bay
concentrate to Thompson, Manitoba, and Ontario, as part of an eventual agreement
reached with the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador" and that "We
remain hopeful that the combination of exploration, technology and external feed
will enable us to keep those operations productive and competitive for a long
time to come";
WHEREFORE your petitioners urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador
to bring any proposed Voisey's Bay deal to the House of Assembly for full
disclosure and thorough debate prior to the signing of any final agreement by
the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador;
And as in duty bound your petitioners will ever pray.
Mr. Speaker, as my colleagues have pointed out, there are lots of people in
this Province, numerous people throughout this Province, from one end of the
Province to the other, who are concerned that this government will sign a deal
with Inco on the development of the Voisey's Bay nickel find. They are
concerned that this deal will be signed in the absence of any full and open
debate in this Legislature, any full disclosure of what is in that deal to the
people of this Province before the deal is signed and final and binding on the
people of this Province.
Why, Mr. Speaker, are they so concerned that this is going to happen? Well,
you need not look any further than some comments that have come from government
and from officials with Inco and Voisey's Bay Nickel and compare them to
statements that came from the government back in 1999, for example, when the
election campaign was on the go.
At that time, the former leader of the Liberal Party, the former Premier of
the Province, said that not one ounce, not one spoonful, of unprocessed ore will
leave the Province. You compare that today with the government's obvious and
stated position today, where two of the outstanding issues are: how many
kilotons will be shipped out of the Province, and for how long that shipping
will take place, whether it will be two years or five years or whatever. As the
Premier has said, and as Scott Hand from Inco has said, and others have said,
those are the two main outstanding issues.
Mr. Speaker, this is why the people of the Province are so concerned. This is
why we have these petitions here today. This is why we, as members from this
side of the House, who sat on the Resource Committee, just over the past couple
of weeks, tried to get the government to allow us to bring before our committee,
people from Inco, Scott Hand from Inco, and representatives from Voisey's Bay
Nickel, so we could question those people on the deliberations that they are
having with government on the Voisey's Bay nickel find.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. TAYLOR: By leave, to clue up, Mr. Speaker?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. the member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: No leave.
MR. SPEAKER: No leave.
MR. TAYLOR: No leave.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I move that the reading of the Orders of the Day
be now done.
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that Orders of the Day be now read.
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Nay.
MR. SPEAKER: Carried.
AN HON. MEMBER: Division.
MR. SPEAKER: Division.
Call in the members.
Division
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Are we ready for the vote?
All those in favour of the motion, please rise.
CLERK: The hon. the Premier; the hon. the Minister of Intergovernmental
Affairs; the hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General; the hon. the
Minister of Environment; the hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial
Affairs; Mr. Walsh; the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board; the hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy; the hon. the Minister of
Works, Services and Transportation; the hon. the Minister of Forest Resources
and Agrifoods; the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services; the hon.
the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture; the hon. the Minister of Tourism,
Culture and Recreation; the hon. the Minister of Youth Services and
Post-Secondary Education and Minister Responsible for the Status of Women; the
hon. the Minister of Government Services and Lands; the hon. the Minister of
Labour; the hon. the Minister of Labrador and Aboriginal Affairs; the hon. the
Minister of Human Resources and Employment; Mr. Mercer, Ms Hodder, Mr. Andersen,
Ms Jones, Mr. Sweeney.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against the motion, please rise.
CLERK: Mr. Edward Byrne; Mr. Ottenheimer; Mr. Shelley; Mr. Jack Byrne; Ms
Sheila Osborne; Mr. Fitzgerald; Mr. Hodder; Mr. Wiseman; Mr. Hunter; Mr.
Manning; Mr. Tom Osborne; Mr. Taylor; Mr. Hedderson; Mr. Young; Mr. Harris; Mr.
Collins.
Mr. Speaker, 23 ayes and 16 nays.
MR. SPEAKER: I declare the motion carried.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Mr. Speaker, I move that the House not adjourn at 5:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the House not adjourn at 5:30
p.m.
All those in favour, aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, nay'.
Motion carried.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MR. LUSH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Order 3, Concurrence Motion, the Resource Committee.
MR. SPEAKER: Order 3, Concurrence Motion, the Resource Committee.
The hon. the Member for Windsor-Springdale.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HUNTER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege today to get up and have a few words to say on
the Budget Debate, Concurrence, with respect to the Resource Committee. It is
very important that we recognize contributions by some people in the Province
with respect to our resources, and I would like to say congratulations to the
City of Corner Brook for being chosen the Forestry Capital of Canada for 2002.
Also, to the Model Forest Committee, Western Newfoundland, for hosting the
Canadian Model Forest Network Committees last week. I was fortunate enough to
have to spend a couple of days in order to take in some of the Model Forest
Committee's functions, and it was indeed a pleasure to see the commitment of
our people in this country who are committed to making sure that our forests
operate on a sustainable basis.
Mr. Speaker, there were delegates from all across Canada, from B.C. right to
Newfoundland and Labrador. In the conference we even had a representative from
the International Model Forest Committee from Chile, Mr. Francisco Mendoza
Escalas, representing a model forest in Chilo, Chile. It is a part of Chile
that depends on the forest industry and they had some really good comments on
the model forest in Chile.
Mr. Speaker, it is not so different in other parts of the world than it is in
our part of the world with respect to our resources. We find, throughout the
world, that people are concerned over how they develop the resources. They are
concerned over resource sustainability, getting the maximum benefits from the
resources and making sure that the interests of all the stakeholders are taken
into consideration, because without doing that, Mr. Speaker, then we will see a
quick fix, short-term gain to make maximum benefits, and in the long-term then
the people of whatever area of the country or the world that the resource is
being extracted, then that area would be devastated down the road.
That is one of the things that we, in Canada, Newfoundland and Labrador
particularly, want to make sure that the best benefit, the maximum benefit from
the resources are given to the people in the area adjacent to that resource. In
this Province I guess we would say our forestry, fishery, mining, any resource
that we do have, our wildlife, Mr. Speaker, and our tourism all have to be done
in a way that is sustainable and for the best benefit of the people our
Province. If we do not do that, then eventually down the road the resource will
be gone, the resources will be extracted and whatever, renewable resources will
have to be used in a way that is be beyond repairing and using in the future for
our future generations. So, we cannot let that happen. We must make sure that
the resource that we have is there for the benefit of our people.
With respect to Voisey's Bay; we have an obligation to make sure that
whatever deal is on the table, whatever deal is in people's minds has to be
brought before the House of Assembly to debate it here, by all people in this
House, elected by the people of the Province; to debate that deal to make sure
that it is the best deal, and that people know what is in it so that when the
final decision is made then the people of this Province would know that it is a
deal that is in the best interest of the Province.
I would say, Mr. Speaker, if the minister and the Premier do not know what is
going on with respect to negotiations or if there is any deal there, then they
should talk to Mr. Hand again because he is certainly making comments which
indicate that a deal is close. There is a deal at hand that is going to see ore
going out of this Province; feeding the mills in Ontario and Manitoba, to create
jobs in those provinces. Mr. Speaker, if you want to go back to the comments
that Mr. Hand made at his meeting on April 17, at his annual general meeting, a
special meeting that he had there, then you can see that a deal is pretty close.
If the Premier denies it and the minister denies it, well I guess they are going
to have to do some more reading on what is going on with respect to Inco.
Mr. Hand said in his comments at his annual meeting back on April 17 - I will
just quote part of the paragraph there. It says, " To maintain production,
we've been bringing in external feeds from Australia and we hope to be
shipping Voisey's Bay concentrate to Thompson, and Ontario, as part of an
eventual agreement reached with the government of Newfoundland and
Labrador." If they are talking about an eventual agreement then they must
be sitting down and talking about a deal. And, "The VBN feed will give us
additional time to explore and find solutions for Thompson and to plan
additional mine development in Ontario."
Mr. Speaker, this ore we have in Labrador, if we do not get the maximum
benefit, if we do not do the development and the necessary refining of the
nickel that comes out of the ground there, then in a few years this ore body is
going to be gone. The minister said: Well, it is in the agreement that this ore
will be returned to the Province. In the estimates, Mr. Speaker, I asked the
minister a question: Where will the ore come from, and when will it come? I
believe the minister alluded to the fact that it could be thirty-five years from
now before the ore starts coming back into the Province. Well considering the
type of ore base this is and the body of ore that this is, then we will be
refining that type of ore. In order to continue refining that type of ore then
we have to find the same type of ore somewhere else in the world to bring back
here. Right now, Mr. Speaker, there is no identified place that we know of, that
I know of, and I asked the minster and he did not know of, and he said he is not
too concerned about that because that is in thirty-five years and they have lots
of time to look for it. If it is not there now, who is to say it is going to be
there in thirty-five years from now?
We have to make sure that every ounce, every spoonful that comes out of the
ground in Labrador has to be done for the maximum benefit of the people of this
Province. In order to do that, Mr. Speaker, then we must make sure that the
maximum processing, refining is done here in this Province. If not, we will see
the ovoid, the best part of the ore, being taken out of the ground and shipped
to Ontario and Manitoba creating hundreds of jobs up there and people in this
Province still having to leave. We cannot do that in this day and age, Mr.
Speaker. We must make sure that our people, our skilled people, our young
people, are staying in this Province and contributing to our economy, not
packing their bags and their U-Hauls and heading on up to the mainland to
contribute to the economy of Ontario and Manitoba; because if they do that, then
somebody is going to have to turn out the light on the way out, the last person
who leaves this Province.
Maybe it might seem farfetched, Mr. Speaker, but when you look at the
thousands and thousands of people who have been leaving this Province in the
last few years, who's to say it will not escalate and thousands and thousands
more will have to leave if we cannot provide meaningful jobs? I do not mean
minimum wage jobs; $5.75 an hour jobs. We see a lot of demand lately for low
paying jobs. People do not want to take these low paying jobs. A lot of people
cannot take these low paying jobs. They are graduates from post-secondary
education. They have debt loads. They cannot go out into the workforce working
for $5.75, $6.00, $7.00 or $8.00 an hour. Our people who are educated in this
Province, who go through a post-secondary and come out with big debt loads, need
to get into jobs where they can sustain a good family life and live in the
communities that they live in and pay back the debt that they have.
I know, myself, I get a lot of calls from students, particularly lately, who
cannot survive in this Province. They cannot work in this Province with the debt
load that they have from their education in the past few years. To correct that
problem we must offer a lot of good, meaningful, technical jobs to people who
are educated to do those jobs. It just does not seem fit, and it does not seem
sensible, to see a person with a degree out of university pumping gas. I have a
big problem with that. If we cannot have people educated and present something
to our youth so they can go to university and come out with some degree of
security knowing that their debt will not be that big of a burden where they
would have to leave this Province, and even the country, and give them an
opportunity to avail of a job where they could live here in this Province; a job
where they can have families, have children. That is what is going to be the
saviour of this Province.
If our young people could stay in this Province, if they could stay here and
have families - because our young families today are the ones who are going to
keep this economy going. If we depend on seniors, even though they spend a lot
of money too, but for the most part, we need young people to stay in this
Province. We need young people having families, then our schools can be viable;
our department stores; any type of services that are given in communities, that
they could be sustainable; that they could stay in business to provide for the
people of this Province.
The basis of keeping this Province alive is keeping our young people here,
giving our young people opportunities - whether it be in forestry, agriculture,
fisheries, mining, tourism and in the business sector. We are not doing enough
in this Province today to encourage our young people to get involved in
businesses. Even though they may be small businesses, one and two operations, we
have to make sure that the opportunities are there for young people, for young
couples to stay here, to come up with good business ideas and have some type of
help to get through the red tape. I am not saying that there always has to be
money thrown at good business ideas because lots of times if the homework is
done, if the work is done and the planning is done, then financing is not the
biggest issue. The biggest issue is getting through the red tape; getting people
to sit down and listen to them; getting government to help them through the red
tape, to make sure that there are professionals in government departments who
will sit down with people and help them through their business plans.
Mr. Speaker, it is not only in small businesses, it is even in agriculture
today. We have made some substantial moves in agriculture this last year which
certainly took a lot of expertise out of the system.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HUNTER: Today we have the Eastern, the Western, the Central part of
the Province not being treated fairly and equally when it comes to respect to
our agriculture service department. We have people who would not relocate to the
West Coast, with lots of expertise, with lots of experience. Where are they?
They are not moving to the West Coast. We have young people coming into that
department - I know, are very good young people, but they do not have the
experience and the expertise that we had.
We have 70 per cent of the agricultural community here on the Avalon, on the
East Coast. We need more support from the department to make sure that the
agricultural and agrifoods industry in this Province gets its fair share on the
East Coast, and strategically located in the Province. I am not saying that we
should have it one place or the other but it has to be done on a fair basis,
where the demand is, where the percentage of the industry is located. We have
expert people in the field who are being demoted; being asked to come down in
scale and rank. People who have been in the industry for so long. That is
putting pressure on the agrifoods industry. We need the same type of
representation done by our ag reps and management people in agrifoods as what we
had over the years. Back in the 1980s, we had ag reps strategically located in
Central Newfoundland, Western Newfoundland and Eastern Newfoundland. Today in
Central Newfoundland, an ag rep has to come from the West Coast. The expertise
that we had twelve years ago, thirteen years ago, that expertise is not readily
available to farmers in parts of Newfoundland and Labrador like it should be. We
have to recognize that if we are going to have a growing industry in agrifoods,
then we have to supply the expertise all over the Province and Labrador. We have
to have the necessary facilities maintained and enhanced on the East Coast as
well as on the West Coast, and the same opportunities to the Central
Newfoundland farmers as anywhere else in the Province.
We need to do something about the land base in this Province. The land base
in this Province is a resource. The land base that is there, that has been lying
idle for many years in different areas of the Province, particularly on the West
Coast, the Codroy Valley, some parts of the East Coast, some parts of Central -
we have a lot of land base - a good resource, that is lying idle and we need to
put some mechanism and policy in place where anybody who has this land lying
idle for many years will be forced to either use it, lease it out, do something
with it besides it just lying idle. We are going to see, in the near future,
more demand put on availability of land base when we expand our milk quotas. We
need extra land to sustain the extra number of animals that are going to be
required to give us that quota.
Mr. Speaker, tourism, culture and recreation - that is another area where we
are not doing enough. I am not talking about using dollars and coming up with
new dollars to do things. We need to have a plan in place where all of our
resources work together. All of our resources - our wildlife, our tourism, our
pristine wilderness - could be made available to our tourists so that tourists
will come here in this Province to spend their money and, by spending money, it
creates jobs in rural Newfoundland, it puts money into the pockets of businesses
who hire more people. They spend more money in their businesses as their
business grows. We must do that.
Before we do that, we have to make sure that the infrastructure is there, the
road systems are there, to let tourists not only travel the Trans-Canada Highway
from west to east but to get off the Trans-Canada Highway to go down in Green
Bay, to go down in Brighton and Miles Cove and Port Anson and Springdale, to get
out in the rural areas in this Province, in Pilley's Island and Robert's Arm
- what a beautiful trail they have there - and South Brook, and all these areas
in my district.
We need the tourists to get off the main roads to get into the small
communities in this Province. In order to do that, we have to have a road system
that is adequate enough to get down there without having to get a tow truck to
follow you with a mechanic in it to do the repairs to get back out of it. That
is what I am hearing in rural Newfoundland. People are stopping near the
Trans-Canada and saying: We cannot go down there because the roads are too bad.
We need something done with our provincial road system. I know it has to be a
joint venture between the Province and the federal government. We have to have a
large roads program, a provincial roads program. We cannot do it with $16
million, Mr. Speaker. Sixteen million dollars will not even fill the potholes in
this Province. We need a very large new federal-provincial roads program so that
we can pave the roads, pave Route 380 and 390 and in other members' districts.
We need a large program with hundreds of millions of dollars, most of which will
come from Ottawa, and we need a good member to send up there. I am proud to say
today that the District of Gander-Grand Falls has elected a good young man who
is going to go to Ottawa and present the case of the people of this Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. HUNTER: Mr. Rex Barnes will go up to Ottawa and make sure that the
people in his riding - my district is part of his riding - are going to be well
represented by Mr. Barnes, and the needs of the people with respect to roads,
infrastructure, and all that, Mr. Speaker. I say to the members on the other
side, too, that we need people who are going to go to Ottawa and fight for the
needs of this Province; to go there and say we need $600 million for our roads.
We need hundreds of millions of dollars for an infrastructure. We need some type
of relief for our small communities in rural Newfoundland who do not have the
tax base to put in water and sewer, who do not have the tax base to have taxes
to pave the roads in the community. They cannot even grade the roads in the
communities, Mr. Speaker. With the amount of gravel roads in this Province, and
the amount of old paved roads, twenty-five, thirty-year-old roads, the people in
the small communities of this Province cannot afford to do that.
We want to make the best of our tourism industry, make the best of any other
type of resource industry, make sure the environment is respected and taken care
of, make sure that our industry, trade and rural development projects and
policies apply to everybody in the Province, make sure that the services,
whether it be aquaculture, forestry or whatever, are available equally to
everybody in this Province. Because I can tell you now, Mr. Speaker, services by
government are not equally distributed. We have, in forestry, conservation
officers being bogged down with paperwork keeping them in their offices, cannot
get out to do surveillance and patrols, and there is a big part of this Province
that is not being protected. A big part of this Province is going by the
wayside. There is work that is not being done. The stats are not being compiled.
Our wildlife stats are not being compiled. Scientific research is not being
done. All of this leads to destruction in the end. If we do not have the
necessary research and the necessary information, then down the road there is
going to be an end to our resources. There is going to be an end to our wildlife
resources.
MR. SPEAKER (Mercer): Order, please!
The member's time is up.
MR. HUNTER: Can I have a couple of minutes to clue up?
MR. SPEAKER: Does the member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. HUNTER: I will get another opportunity, Mr. Speaker, but there is one
comment I would like to make and it was what the Minister of Fisheries said
yesterday about down in his district. Well, I can say equally to what he said:
My district back in the early days of liberalism, we had no roads in Green Bay,
and it was a Liberal government at the time.
When the PC government came in, they built roads all throughout Green Bay.
They paved the roads. Since this Liberal government came in, our roads have
deteriorated to a point that I do not know but they are beyond repair. They must
be replaced. I say to the Minister of Fisheries, in his own district, I remember
when I was a young fellow and I visited his district many times. In the 1970s,
the PC government did build a lot of roads in his district. The PC government
had a plan in place, back in the 1970s and early 1980s, where many roads in Fogo
and Twillingate were being developed and planned. Unfortunately, they never had
time to build the roads and pave them at the same time.
He may be correct in saying they were not all paved in PC times. I would say
he was probably correct in that, but that was a plan that the PC government of
the day had, to have those roads built and paved.
I do know for sure that there were a lot of roads built in his district in
the 1970s. I don't know how long he lived in that district. I don't even
know if he is from that district, but I remember when I was a teenager,
seventeen or eighteen years old, going down in his district. There was a lot of
construction on the go, I can tell him, by the former company, J. Goodyear &
Sons Ltd., which I was very closely involved and associated with. They built
many roads in Fogo and Twillingate.
The Minister of Fisheries may not be totally correct, he may not be totally
wrong, but the PC government spent a lot of money in his district on roads in
the 1970s and 1980s, and they certainly spent a lot of money in my district in
the 1970s and 1980s, in the Green Bay district. I hope that, when the time
comes, we can find a way to get all our roads kept up to standard, rebuilt,
because it is crucial, it is important, to every district. For the forty-eight
districts in this Province, it is important that we make sure that our roads are
in a fit state so that we can capitalize on our tourism, on our forest
resources, on our fishery resources. We must make sure that we have that
infrastructure in place.
Roads are a very important part of the survival of this Province. Without
roads, we are not going to make it. If we do not have good roads to get the best
out of our resources, to get the best out of tourism, then I am afraid that this
Province is not going to make it, because money is not getting filtered out to
the small communities. It is not getting out to the small towns, from tourism,
because tourists are afraid to go. They know that, if they go on these secondary
roads, the provincial roads, they are going to need a mechanic and a tow truck
to get them back out of it.
Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity of having just
a few words to say. I will give my colleagues a chance to have a few words to
say on the Resource Committee debate on concurrence. I will pass it on to my
colleagues, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I want to have a few words to say with respect to the Resource Committee
Estimates that we are currently debating in the House, and to probably clarify a
few things and add my perspective as to where we are in the stream of time.
As everybody in the Province knows, Mr. Speaker, this Province is a
resource-base economy. Whether it is our natural resources in terms of renewable
resources such as fisheries, or whether we talk about our non-renewable
resources such as oil and gas or minerals in the ground, this is in fact a
resource-base economy in this Province. I think if there is anything that we can
all agree on, if there is any message that I have heard in the last almost ten
years now since I have been involved with public life, if there is any message
that I have heard from the people of the Province, it is that we fundamentally
have to make one of two choices: We have to decide that in fact we are going to
attempt to develop our resources, both renewable and non-renewable resources, in
the best possible fashion to advance our economy; or, Mr. Speaker, we can take
the other view and that is that we are going to do virtually nothing with
respect to our resources and allow ourselves to become in perpetuity clients of
the federal system and hope to survive on that basis and let what will evolve
naturally in the economy happen, but, for goodness sake, not risk and not take
any chances to try and develop hard, tough projects.
Mr. Speaker, these are the two choices we have. We have a choice of virtually
doing nothing and letting things slide, or we have the choice of taking, as it
were, our economic bull by the horns and decide that we are going to try to
develop this economy in this Province for the betterment of all who live here
now and for the betterment of those who are away and who might want to come back
and reside in this Province.
Mr. Speaker, the message I have heard from the people of the Province is this
message: By all means, on any reasonable basis that you can find, try and
develop the economy of the Province using our natural resources, using our
renewable resources, and using our non-renewable resources.
MR. H. HODDER: (Inaudible).
MR. MATTHEWS: I say to the hon. Member for Waterford Valley that when he
speaks I listen to him attentively and I would appreciate the same courtesy from
him, with great respect. He is generally a good listener, Mr. Speaker, but there
are times when he gets a little excited. I understand why he would excited. At
his age, blood pressure tends to run a little higher. I know because I am there,
within a number of days. Within a very few days we probably are about the same
age. We arrived in this Legislature, Mr. Speaker, on the same day. I don't
know how long he intends to stay around, but I would suspect that there is a
good chance that he will be long into retirement before this member decides to
follow his example.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MATTHEWS: He continues to ask me what I am doing in my political
future. I say to the hon. Member for Waterford Valley: Wait and see. Just watch,
because, Mr. Speaker, and I do not want to digress into politics, per se, I want
to speak substantively to the issues, I would say this. Responding to what GDP
might mean, as the hon. the Member for Kilbride was talking about this
afternoon, it could mean a lot of things: good day politically.
AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible).
MR. MATTHEWS: I say to the hon. Member for Baie Verte, if we look at the
results of the people who cast their vote in the by-elections in two districts
last night, yes, I would say it probably is, for people on this side, a good day
politically; because the figures I saw as a result of the votes cast last night,
for the first time ever in the Province, as I recall, and as the analysis seems
to indicate, a full 63 per cent of the people who voted last night in two
by-elections voted Liberal.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MATTHEWS: I say to the hon. member: good day politically. I would say
to the hon. member there is BDP coming, there is a better day politically coming
for those of us who are on this side of the House.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. MATTHEWS: We do not underestimate, Mr. Speaker, the challenge of
improving upon a 63 per cent performance in the Province last night, but we do
believe, in fact, there is still the possibility that we can improve upon that
63 per cent of Liberal vote that came out to support Liberal candidates last
night.
Mr. Speaker, I apologize for digressing into that area, but the hon. Member
for Baie Verte egged me on. I know he wanted me to share that bit of information
for the benefit of the people of the Province so that some real, positive,
practical and truthful perspective could be put upon what actually happened in
terms of votes cast last night.
The people of this Province do want us to move forward and develop the
resources of this Province. If, on the other side of this, there is any one
thing that I have observed by listening to the people who sit on the other side
of the House - and I believe all of the people who sit in this House, I say it
rhetorically, everybody, I believe, in this House, who comes here, all
forty-seven or forty-eight seats when they are filled, are filled by people who
want to do good by the people of the Province to advance our economy and make a
better circumstance for all of us.
Mr. Speaker, with respect to the resource development that we currently have
under negotiation with the possibility of getting the Voisey's Bay project
going, if there is any one thing that I notice on that side of the House, when
the people over there start to talk about it, whether it is innocently, whether
it is in ignorance, or whether it is out of sheer political fear, the thing that
petrifies them most, as I have observed, is the fact that they believe we might,
in fact, be able to do a good deal on behalf of the people of the Province, and
advance the economy, and that they have marked out for themselves a position
which puts them clearly not with the majority of the people of the Province. I
believe that to be the case. I hope, if we can be successful in concluding our
negotiations with Voisey's and get the project going, that will be something
that will be demonstrated as a result of a discussion.
The people of this Province need to know a couple of things. The people of
this Province need to know that never has there been a contemplation, and never
will there be a consideration, of raw ore leaving this Province for processing
elsewhere. The people of this Province need to know that what we are potentially
talking about is the possibility of, for a short period of time, some
concentrate leaving the Province.
Mr. Speaker, what is concentrate? What is the difference between raw ore and
concentrate? I am not a metallurgist and I am not a geologist, but in layman
terms let me explain what it is. The difference is this:
Whereas ore comes out
of the ground, is scooped up, and includes rock and a variety of other minerals
that might be mixed in, including contaminates, once that comes out of the
ground, the next process is to put it through what we call a concentrator, a
mill first and then a concentrator at the site.
The people of the Province need to know that before we can make concentrate
in this Province there has to be an investment of between $400 million and $600
million by the people who will be the developers of this resource and this ore
body. So what we are saying, Mr. Speaker? We are saying that concentrate is a
partly processed ore that will be at minimum the only thing - if in fact there
is ever anything - that will ever move for a short period of time out of this
Province.
MR. SHELLEY: (Inaudible).
MR. MATTHEWS: I say to the Member for Baie Verte, if he would allow me
the courtesy of speaking uninterrupted in the House. I have something to say
that I think is important to the people of the Province.
I am saying this: that there will never be raw ore leaving the Province. The
minimum that will be leaving, if anything at all, will be a concentrated product
that has gone through the mining process, that has gone through the milling
process, and that has gone through a concentrator at the Voisey's Bay site.
How will that happen? That will happen, if it does happen, after there has been
an expenditure of between $400 million and $600 million in capital outlay by
whoever develops that site and the current owner. The current owner, obviously,
is Inco, and that is whom we are negotiating with.
I think the people on the other side are innocently afraid that we are going
to do a deal that will be acceptable to the people of the Province, so that we
can advance the economy of this Province so that we can move forward.
Let me get to the piece that has to do with research and development. It is
historic, Mr. Speaker, that there has been taken, by a political party in this
Province, maybe for the first time in history ever, a position against
encouraging the federal government to invest in R and D projects in this
Province so as to try and advance our economy.
MS JONES: Not true!
MR. MATTHEWS: I believe it is true, I say to the hon. Member for
Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair. I believe it is true that people on the other side
of the House have blindly, have innocently, have fortuitously, have on a
political basis - maybe only, when it all comes down to it - taken a position
that R and D should not be encouraged to come to this Province so as to try and
prove up a new technology which, in the first instance, will involve the
hydromet process.
What the people of the Province need to know is that we are not interested
solely, in having R and D money come to this Province if in fact the federal
government are of a mind to help Inco with this. We are not saying they have to.
We are saying: Do for Inco what you would do for any other company in like
circumstance that would come to you looking for research and development money
to advance projects anywhere. In our interest we say: If you can do it in
Newfoundland, so much the better for our economy.
What we are looking at is not only R and D money to test up a process to
develop hydromet so that it can be used against the sulfide ore bodies in
Labrador, what we are doing is, by extension, asking the federal government if
they would be good enough to help Inco - if they feel it is the right thing to
do - to help develop a whole new research and development initiative in this
Province, which in the first instance will start with the hydromet technology
but will be available to test up other types of processing long into the future
after that is completed with respect to the hydromet versus the sulfite ores
that will be coming out of Voisey's Bay.
Mr. Speaker, the people of the Province I believe need to understand, and it
is our responsibility as government to share with them the information and
knowledge we have. It is important for them to know that R & D for hydromet
testing technology in Argentia is but the first of what we believe will be many,
many other R & D related projects to be carried on in this Province for the
next ten, twenty, thirty, forty or fifty years, if in fact the project should
successfully get up and running. What I am saying -
MR. HUNTER: What if it is not?
MR. MATTHEWS: Mr. Speaker, there you go again. The hon. the Member from
Windsor-Springdale said: But what if it is not? He is frightened to death. He
reminds me of the individual that the former, former, former premier used to
talk about. He reminds me of somebody that continuously loves to take the
position of wrapping himself in tinfoil and calling for lightening to come
because he is frightened to death that something good is going to happen in the
Province. I say to the hon. member, ask me the question: What if it is
successful? Not what if it is not successful. What if it is successful? Well,
let me tell him what will happen if it is successful. It will mean -
AN HON. MEMBER: Why can't you bring ore (inaudible)?
MR. MATTHEWS: Voisey's Bay ore only exists in Voisey's Bay, as best I
understand. The hon. member asks rather revealing questions, might I say.
AN HON. MEMBER: Where is the ore coming back from?
MR. MATTHEWS: He asked the question: Where is the ore coming back from?
Inco, today, Mr. Speaker - first of all, the industry generally, on a worldwide
basis, is continuously moving various types of ore products, metal products,
nickel products. They are moving it all over the world. Mr. Speaker, he asks:
Where is it coming from? I say to the hon. member, why doesn't he place a call
to the people somewhere, find a phone number of someone in Clydach, Wales who
had a mine in their jurisdiction -
AN HON. MEMBER: Why not bring it to the House for debate and then you
will find (inaudible)?
MR. MATTHEWS: Oh, now he asks another question. He will not let me tell
him where the ore might come from. When I started to answer that question he
wants to know: Why don't we bring it to the House and debate it? One question
at a time, I say to the hon. member. This is the member, I say to the people in
the Province, who after three-plus hours of questioning me in Estimate hearings
about ten days ago, he did not have time to finish up. He said we have to go
into overtime. We will come back on Tuesday morning and we will have more
questions about this issue. We said: Fine. The Chair, the hon. Member for
Conception Bay East & Bell Island, said: Fine, we will extend the hearings.
So we came back at 9 o'clock on another morning. Well, who do you think was
not here to ask the questions that he did not have time to ask the day we
concluded the first set of hearings? The hon. the member over here was not here
when you ask the questions that he wanted more time to ask.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. E. BYRNE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The Minister of Mines and Energy, I was listening intently to his speech and
fair enough, he defended his right to stand up and speak. But, in having sole
possession of the camera, he is trying to leave an impression that the Member
for Windsor-Springdale was not attending to his duties by not showing up to a
committee hearing; nothing further could be from the truth. The fact of the
matter is that the meeting he referred to, the Member for Windsor-Springdale was
doing his duty out in his district at a prior commitment. At that committee
hearing what he did do was ensure that this member, the Member for Kilbride,
represented him at that committee.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. E. BYRNE: Mr. Speaker, more importantly than that, it is a long
standing rule in the House, all members know it, that it is a common practice,
it is listed within the rules that we guide ourselves by, we do not refer to
members who are absent for purely legitimate, bonafide reasons. The minister has
done that. I am sure that he in no way, shape or form wanted to leave an
impression that the Member for Windsor-Springdale was not doing his duty. I ask
him, when he gets to his feet, to indicate exactly that.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: To the point of order, the hon. the Minister of Mines and
Energy.
MR. MATTHEWS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I do not recall making any commentary that would suggest that the hon. member
was doing anything on the morning that we had the second series of hearings that
was inappropriate. I simply say that we were happy - and the hon. Member for
Kilbride is right, I would not refer to a member that is not in the House. If
the rule with respect to that has been breached, I certainly apologize to the
hon. member.
The fact of the matter is, the hon. member is here in the House today and
that is why I carry on. I am only answering, Mr. Speaker, the questions that he
raised because, as I said, while he wanted more time to ask questions in
committee, on the second day he was here to do so. I point that out. Today he is
asking me all kinds of questions across the House. While I am trying to deliver
a speech to inform the people of the Province a little bit about this project,
he continues to interrupt me.
Now let me carry on by trying to answer one of the questions that he raised.
He said: Where is the ore going to come from in thirty-five years? He asked the
question: Where is the appropriate type of ore going to come from in thirty-five
years? It is a legitimate question. I do not debate the fact that it is a
legitimate question, but I say to the hon. member, first of all, he suggests in
some way that - and I don't think he intends to do this - we are probably
dealing with a company, Inco by name, that is less than credible. The fact of
the matter is, Mr. Speaker, that we have to deal with people who have rights to
ore bodies in this Province by virtue of them coming and exploring or buying
rights to that which has been explored to develop it. We have an obligation to
talk to whomever has the rights to the ore. In this case it is Inco. We are
talking to a company that is 100 years old this year, is celebrating its 100 th
birthday. We are talking to a company that is the largest producer of nickel in
the world and is the leader in the production of nickel on a worldwide basis.
I say to the hon. member with great respect, if they still believe we are
talking to, or if they in fact believe that we are talking to and dealing with a
company that has no credibility then they will have to answer to that. I am
satisfied to suggest and tell the people of the Province that we are dealing
with, in our judgement, a very credible, a very prominent worldwide player in
the nickel industry. We hope successfully to conclude a deal with them to
develop Voisey's Bay, if that is in fact possible. We will know sooner rather
than later on that account.
I say to him, why doesn't he find the phone number of at least one person
in Clydach, Wales, where once upon a time there was a nickel mine, Mr. Speaker.
The nickel mine ran out. The day a mine opens up, obviously, it is a day closer
to extinction.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. member's time is up.
MR. MATTHEWS: If I could conclude, I would appreciate it.
MR. SPEAKER: Does the hon. member have leave?
SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave.
MR. SPEAKER: By leave.
MR. MATTHEWS: The nickel mine ran out thirty or forty years ago. The
people in Clydach, Wales, today have, for thirty or forty years, had the good
fortune of having the good common sense to allow a development of their mine to
happen many years ago so that a processing facility could be built and so that,
when the ore body ran out in Clydach Wales, for the next thirty or forty years
they have seen, and continue to see today, the importation of feed so that plant
can continue to run.
Mr. Speaker, I say in conclusion that we are talking about a concept no less
different than the one that exists in Clydach, Wales. That is one example. I
would also say to the member from the other side who asked that question, maybe
he should talk to the people in Fort Saskatchewan in Saskatchewan, who today see
a processing plant running in their Province day after day after day. Where do
they get the feed for it, Mr. Speaker? It does not come from Saskatchewan, it
does not come from Manitoba, it does not come from Sudbury, it does not come
from any place in Canada. It comes from Cuba, Mr. Speaker. It comes from Cuba.
So, for the hon. member to suggest that it is an extraordinary contemplation,
for the hon. member to suggest that it is an extraordinary thing, to consider
feed as being available in the future to come to a proposed processing facility
in Newfoundland, I say to the hon. member it is the norm in the worldwide
industry to see feed move around the world to be processed in one area while
mined and concentrated and milled in another area.
Mr. Speaker, I can tell the people of the Province, in conclusion, that there
is not a chance ever that this government, on behalf of the people of the
Province, would contemplate signing a deal for the development of Voisey's Bay
unless we first have in place the absolute best guarantees and assurances that
can be prescribed so as that in the event there is any difficulty in the distant
future of concentrate not coming back, that we will be adequately and
appropriately protected against any loss in terms of the economic value to the
people of this Province. Simply put, Mr. Speaker, the economic value of the
short period of concentrate export will be taken care of in an appropriate type
of guarantee. I would say to the people on the other side of the House and to
the people of the Province, in conclusion - and I will conclude on this note -
that notwithstanding the position that the Opposition has taken on this project,
notwithstanding the ad campaign that they are running against a project that has
not yet been agreed to, that has not yet been fully negotiated, notwithstanding
that, I would ask them to consider, in the interest and in the context of the
greater good of the people of this Province, to allow the discussion to go
forward in a non- politicized fashion so that people can objectively know what
will happen if in fact a deal is done, so that people can make a judgement based
on its merit.
The people on the other side of the House, Mr. Speaker, and the people on
this side of the House, the people on both sides of the House, have a greater
obligation in a project as enormous and as important to the people of the
Province as the Voisey's Bay project. They have a gr