Fourth Session, 42nd Parliament

(2023) OFFICIAL REPORT

OF DEBATES

(HANSARD)

Wednesday, May 10, 2023

Afternoon Sitting

Issue No. 328

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

CONTENTS

Routine Business

Introductions by Members

Introduction and First Reading of

Bills

Bill M224 — Transportation Amendment Act,

D. Davies

Statements (Standing Order 25B)

Nursing Week and contributions of nurses

S. Chant

B.C. Beef Day and ranching industry

I. Paton

Asian Heritage Month and anti-Asian

racism

M. Elmore

Community response to wildfire in McBride

area

S. Bond

Child and Youth in Care Week and supports for

former youth in care

G. Begg

Louis Thomas and work as Secwepemc Knowledge

Keeper

G. Kyllo

Oral Questions

Reports on management of B.C. Housing

K. Falcon

Hon. R. Kahlon

Management of B.C. Housing and Atira property

services

P. Milobar

Hon. R. Kahlon

Fire at Winters Hotel and management of B.C.

Housing and Atira property services

P. Milobar

Hon. R. Kahlon

Living wage policy and labour dispute in transit

system

S. Furstenau

Hon. H. Bains

Hon. R. Fleming

Service models for children with support

needs

K. Kirkpatrick

Hon. M. Dean

Emergency room wait times and government action on

health care issues

S. Bond

Hon. A. Dix

Drug toxicity crisis and management of safe

supply

E. Sturko

Hon. J. Whiteside

Tabling Documents

Crown Proceeding Act, report, fiscal year ended March 31,

WorkSafeBC, 2022 annual report and 2023–2025 service plan

Statements

Broadcast intrusive alert

Hon. B. Ma

Orders of the Day

Third Reading of Bills

Bill 5 — Public Service Labour Relations Amendment

Act, 2023

K. Conroy

A. Olsen

On the amendment

A. Olsen

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Office of the Premier

Hon. D. Eby

K. Falcon

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Legislative Assembly

Estimates: Officers of the Legislature

Estimates: Ministry of Housing (continued)

Estimates: Ministry of Post-Secondary Education and

Future Skills (continued)

C. Oakes

Hon. S. Robinson

G. Kyllo

A. Olsen

B. Stewart

WEDNESDAY, MAY 10, 2023

The House met at 1:34 p.m.

[Mr. Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: R. Glumac.

[1:35 p.m.]

Introductions by Members

T. Wat: I have two introductions to make today.

The first one. I have a 28-member Richmond delegation headed by

chairman Paul Tam. The delegation includes members of ICONNBC; Shaena

Furlong, CEO of the Richmond Chamber of Commerce; Ed Gavsie, CEO of Richmond

Cares, Richmond Gives; as well as many young students. I think they are

touring the Legislature now.

Founded in 2016, the ICONNBC Business Association is a non-profit

organization dedicated to promoting meaningful communication platforms that

encompass Canadian values, diversity and harmony.

The Leader of the Official Opposition and I had a great conversation

with the group about various issues, including health care and drug

overdose.

Please join me in welcoming Paul and ICONNBC and members of the

Richmond delegation.

The second welcome I would like to extend…. There’s a B.C. jade

delegation of over 50 people in the Legislature today. We just had a

celebration.

In the gallery are president Charles Hu and members of the Canadian

National Jade Research Institute. They are Brian Liou, Ken Zhang, Charles

Lee, Cary Xiou Sem Peng as well as Chinese-Canadian community leaders from

the Lower Mainland and Victoria.

They are here to celebrate the tenth anniversary of the proclamation

of B.C. Jade Day, which was officially proclaimed by the former Liberal

government on May 28, 2014. It has been my honour to be the ambassador for

this magnificent gemstone of the province for many, many years.

Please give a big round of applause to this B.C. jade

delegation.

Hon. R. Kahlon: Everyone in this place that has young ones in their lives knows…. With

us being away so much, we miss a lot of important moments in our families’

lives and our kids’ lives.

Today my son is turning 13 years old. Certainly, my colleagues on this

side will remember him crawling at campaigns before I was elected. He’s

The scariest thing for me was waking up this morning and getting a

text message saying: “Dad, this is Navin. This is my new cell phone. You can

text me here.”

I don’t know where the time is going, but I want to wish my son Navin

a very, very happy 13th birthday.

R. Merrifield: I’ve had the pleasure of doing some of my two-minute statements on the

Starbright Children’s Development Centre as well as presenting to the

Premier the actual feelings banner from the rally that was hosted back in

the winter. Today I actually have guests that are here from the Starbright

Children’s Development Centre.

As you recall, Starbright is a non-profit children’s development

centre serving families with children, from birth to six years of age, who

have complex developmental challenges and who need specialized supports.

They have two locations in Kelowna, and the centre has been serving the

Central Okanagan for 57 years. A little known fact is that it was actually

founded by Dr. Clifford Henderson, who was Kelowna’s first pediatrician.

Starbright’s 60 highly trained and skilled staff work with approximately

1,000 children every single year.

Today, joining us in the gallery, we have, from the leadership team,

Dr. Rhonda Nelson, who has been the executive director of Starbright since

2013. I won’t read all of her extraordinary accomplishments — from positions

as a teacher, consultant, superintendent, director of education, consultants

and managers, etc., as well as a sessional lecturer for the University of

Regina. She holds her BA and BEd from the University of Saskatchewan and her

MEd and PhD from the University of Regina.

[1:40 p.m.]

She is definitely very well skilled, having worked for not-for-profit

agencies in the past as well as her doctoral research. Dr. Rhonda Nelson is

absolutely an extraordinary addition to Starbright.

We also have Carol Meise, who is the board chair and the association

president for Starbright. She was recruited to the board in 2003, after

extensive advocacy work on behalf of parents and children with invisible

disabilities within school district 23. She’s worked on multiple boards for

over 40 years and is truly a tremendous advocate for Starbright.

They’re in Victoria attending the BCACDI meetings. Would the House

please join me in welcoming them here today.

Hon. R. Singh: In the House today, I’m joined by my deputy minister, Christina

Zacharuk. As the new minister, I would really like to take this opportunity

to thank her for all the support that she has given me in my new

role.

Along with Christina we also have her sister, Andrea Zacharuk, and

also her niece, Grace Merkell, joining us. Grace is a grade 7 student from

Saanich school district, an extremely intelligent girl. I had the

opportunity to have a conversation with Grace in my office earlier today. I

just don’t get it, but she’s such a genius in math, and I really need to

take some tips from Grace on how to do it.

Will the House please make Christina, Andrea and Grace very

welcome.

K. Falcon: Today in the House, we’ve got one of the co-founders of the Children’s

Autism Federation of B.C., a young mom with two lovely young boys, Marcus

and William, who has fought, frankly, for the interests of young kids and

neurodiverse children across this province, a very important

fight.

Her husband, Matt, could not be here with her right now, but what’s

most important is not just that she’s a great young mom that’s fighting for

an important cause with parents with kids with autism, but she’s also the

very first B.C. United candidate for Langford–Juan de Fuca.

I’d like the House to please make her welcome.

Hon. M. Dean: I have a couple of introductions today.

I would also like to recognize that we have the leadership from

Starbright Children’s Development Centre here today. I had a productive

meeting with them just an hour ago. We have board chair, Carol Meise, and

the executive director, Dr. Rhonda Nelson. Would everybody please make them

welcome again.

We also have some members of the B.C. Association of Child Development

and Intervention here with us in the gallery today. The association is

holding a conference. The board is meeting here in Victoria today, and I’m

really looking forward to going and speaking with them all this

evening.

Would the House please make them very welcome.

K. Kirkpatrick: I would like to welcome Roxanne Black and Debra Antifaev to the House

today. Both live in Surrey–White Rock. Maybe, someday, you will come and

visit me in my riding. Both are strong advocates for children and are here

to talk to government about autism supports.

Please join me in welcoming them both to the House today.

Hon. P. Alexis: If you were anywhere near the library steps earlier today, you would

have been able to tell that today was indeed B.C. Beef Day. Not just Pi Day,

it was B.C. Beef Day. What a delicious way to spend a lunch

break.

This highly anticipated annual event would not happen without the

partnership between government, the B.C. Cattlemen’s Association, the B.C.

Association of Cattle Feeders, the B.C. Breeder and Feeder Association, B.C.

Meats, B.C. Dairy Association and Ownership Identifi­cation

Inc.

I would be remiss not to mention the culinary talents of “BBQ” Brian

Misko and his House of Q team. They actually prepared 500 meals today for

all of us. Thank you so much.

Today we have some of the people responsible for bringing B.C. Beef

Day to fruition here in the gallery. Will the members please join me in

welcoming, from the B.C. Cattlemen’s Association, Kevin Boon, Brian Thomas,

Werner Stump and Paul Devick, and from the B.C. Breeder and Feeder

Association, Ken Fawcett, Lindy Gilson and Mike Gilson.

[1:45 p.m.]

Thank you, thank you, thank you again for such a great day.

C. Oakes: I thank the minister for her comments. Today is B.C. Beef Day. I have

some members from my constituency here today, and I’m incredibly proud.

Look, I grew up on a ranch, multigeneration, and I can tell you that these

hard-working men and women are truly the heart. I know there are many

members that have had that in our blood.

I am incredibly proud to have some members from the Breeder and Feeder

Association: Lindy and Mike Gilson and Ken Fawcett.

Thank you for your tireless advocacy. Ranching is incredibly important

to the province of British Columbia. It matters, and your advocacy really

makes a difference. Thanks for being here.

Hon. G. Lore: The third Thursday of every May is Vyshyvanka Day, when Ukrainians

worldwide wear a sign of solidarity and unity as one people with ancient

common culture, language and ancestral home. I’m pleased to wear the

Vyshyvanka created by a woman in Western Ukraine and shared with me by

members of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress. We are fortunate today to have

several of them with us.

I’m going to introduce them and request forgiveness for the names. I

look forward to learning to say them better.

We have Lesia Kuzyk from the Ukrainian Canadian Congress here, Yuriy

Vyshnevskyy from St. Nicholas Ukrainian Catholic Church in my community,

Andriy Fabrikov of the Ukrainian-Canadian Cultural Centre and society of

southern Vancouver Island, Robert Herchak of the Ukrainian Studies Society,

Lina Streltsov of the Kalyna Ukrainian Choir and Pati-Ann Lawe.

Will the House please join me in making them very welcome here in our

House.

Hon. B. Ma: Before I go into my introduction, I want to say to folks who have been

mentioning today is Pi Day that as an engineer, I know that Pi Day is March

14, 3.14. So I don’t know about this whole Pi Day thing on today.

I wanted to introduce the House to the intrusive broadcast alert,

which is going to alert in about six or seven minutes, at 1:55 p.m. I just

want to give you a heads-up because they can be quite alarming. Also, for

the folks in the gallery, if anybody has managed to sneak in a device, it

does sound through, even on your silent setting, so be

forewarned.

K. Paddon: I am very honoured today to have two guests in the gallery joining us:

Kirsten Hague and Tom Browning. I just want to share very briefly with the

other members that Kirsten was a huge part of keeping me sane and grounded

during my first-ever campaign, and she has been there for me during this

entire time. I just cannot express how grateful I am to have met her and to

have her as part of my life. So thank you for joining me today.

Would the House please make them very welcome.

Hon. S. Malcolmson: Joining us in the House today is my friend and colleague Darcy Olsen.

She was my CA; she is my EA. She used to support me when I was a Member of

Parliament in my Nanaimo office. She’s brilliant at her job.

She also supported the Solicitor General back in the day, in the ’90s.

She is born to do this work. Some members will know her mother, Sharon

Olsen, who supported minister, MLA and Member of Parliament Ian

Waddell.

Will the House please make Darcy Olsen very welcome.

S. Furstenau: I’m delighted to introduce Khadoni Pitt-Chambers, who is in the

gallery today. They have experience, from here to Ottawa, advocating for

climate action and environmental education, and they are currently working

at Community Social Planning Council of Greater Victoria, where they’re

focused on housing and climate equity.

Will the House please make Khadoni most welcome.

[1:50 p.m.]

D. Davies: Happy to be introducing some fine people that have joined us in the

House today, people that serve their country, people that serve many of our

communities straight across British Columbia and Canada. That is members of

the 4th Canadian Ranger Patrol Group, representatives from the headquarters

here in Victoria, as well as representing Tumbler Ridge, Mackenzie and Fort

Nelson.

This is a very unique military group that fits well within Canada, a

vast chunk of land with not many people. The Canadian Rangers are the people

that we see in our smaller communities across this country, and they serve a

great benefit to our communities. They help in emergencies — and of course,

British Columbia sees a lot of emergencies, between wildfires and flooding —

supporting, of course, other Canadian Forces operations, Search and

Rescue.

So would the House please welcome, and I’ll try and do this as quickly

as I can, Master Warrant Officer Donald Clark, Warrant Officer Ryan Gow,

Sergeant Wesley Riddel, Sergeant Robin Taylor, Sailor 3rd Class John

Edwards, Sergeant Faron Stopsen, Corporal Patrick Sullivan, Master Corporal

Myriam Rioux and Master Corporal Mary Duchesne.

Would the House please make the guests feel welcome.

H. Sandhu: Today, I have two introductions to make, so I’ll try to be very

quick.

My first introduction. I have three guests in the gallery. I am

thrilled to introduce Joanna Lord. She’s president of BCGEU for Component 7,

education, scientific, technical and administrative, and she’s also a local

BCGEU chairperson for Nanaimo and Northern Vancouver Island.

Also joining us is Prabhdeep Chahal. She’s my cousin. It’s her first

time in the gallery, and she’s also BCGEU treasurer. Prabhdeep also works at

Kwantlen Polytechnic University as a chemistry lab technician. And my

sister-in-law, Ravinderjeet Khosa, who is a registered nurse and now works

in Surrey as a health care worker, and is also BCGEU member.

Would the House please join three amazing women and thank them for all

the work they do and make them feel very welcome.

Thank you so much, Mr. Speaker, for allowing me to do my second

introduction.

I’m proud to introduce this year again Brian Misko and his wife,

Corinne, from House of Q in Vernon. They are here on the precinct today with

their hard-working team. House of Q started by using mom’s stockpot, and

they make award-winning barbecue sauces and spices. Q is one of the most

awarded barbecue sauce and pub companies around the world. They’ve won over

200 awards in 15 years.

Brian and his team were barbecuing again here for B.C. Beef Day at the

Legislature, working so hard with their team.

Would the House please join me to welcome them and thank them for all

the work they’ve done today.

B. Stewart: Lots of introductions today, but I have a guest here who’s in her 91st

year who is joining us from my riding. Her name is Marie Estella Smith, and

she is a lady who grew up in Port Alberni. She worked for MacMillan Bloedel

as a telephone operator back in the day, when you moved the wires and went

on to become a nurse. She’s here with her daughter Cheryl Doll who is well

known as somebody in my constituency, in my office in Kelowna

West.

Please welcome Marie Smith and her daughter, Cheryl.

M. Dykeman: I will try to do this introduction before we’re serenaded with the

emergency alert. Joining us today in the gallery are 39 grade 5 students

joined by their teacher, Lauren Hogg and eight chaperones. They’re from

Langley Christian School.

I was wondering if everybody could please make them feel very, very

welcome.

G. Chow: I missed a delicious lunch today at the back lawn because I was

presiding over an event in the Honour Hall.

Today we celebrated the 10th anniversary of B.C. Jade Day at the

Legislature, with over 50 artisans, businesses and individuals gathering in

the Hall of Honour.

I have the honour to present a greeting certificate to the Canadian

National Jade Research Institute on behalf of the Premier.

[1:55 p.m.]

I have five members who are attending today’s event, and they are in

the gallery and I’d like to introduce them: Charles Hu, who is president of

the Canadian National Jade Research Institute; Ken Cheung, who is the

vice-president; Max Struats, from Continental Jade in South Surrey; and

Frank Huang, who is the co-ordinator for this event and also president of

Wongs Benevolent Association from Vancouver Chinatown; and, also, Maurice

Wong, vice-president of the Consolidated Chinese Benevolent Association of

Victoria Chinatown.

R. Leonard: I was wandering the halls today at lunchtime and ran into a friend

from home, and I would like the House to welcome her. Her name is Cindy

Xavier. She is the executive director of the Comox Valley Child Development

Association.

She came to us via Saskatchewan right in the middle of the pandemic

and took up the mantle of a long-serving executive director. While some

people thought: “Hmm. How is it going to be after Joanna leaves?” Cindy came

in with a lot of vigor, a lot of expertise and has helped the Child

Development Association just really thrive through some very difficult times

and is continuing on to build a strong team and strong services for the

children in our community.

Please let the House welcome Cindy Xavier.

S. Chant: I want to add my welcome to the Rangers. If you ever want to hear

interesting stories, talk to these folks.

I’m very glad to hear you’ve got a naval contingent. Very welcome in

the House.

A. Olsen: I rise today to introduce my mother-in-law, Pat Rosa, and her friend

visiting all the way from Los Angeles, California, Lou Austin. It’s

wonderful to have them both in the House here with us today.

We had lunch in the dining room and had a wonderful conversation about

the work that all three of the families that were represented at the table

did on behalf of social justice over the years. I just wanted to acknowledge

that important work. I let them know that question period was only three

hours long, so they’ll be surprised when it’s not.

Can the House please make them feel welcome and happy too.

D. Davies: Yes and we’re all allowed to feel happy. That’s important

too.

I’d certainly be in trouble if I didn’t…. I look up into the gallery

here today and see a couple of good friends and incredible advocates for the

persons with disability movements not just across B.C. but across

Canada.

I want to welcome Brent Frain and Sonjia Grandahl. Welcome.

J. Rice: Today I would like to introduce a very special person who dresses to

the nines in very vibrant colors, because the last thing you want to wear is

brown, beige or boring, she states. She proudly states that she still sports

her dark hair and has her own teeth. Edith Thorpe recently turned 101 years

old. I would like the House to wish her a happy birthday. Her motto is: “Any

excuse for a party.”

Please make her feel welcome and wish her a happy 101.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

BILL M224 — TRANSPORTATION

AMENDMENT ACT,

D. Davies presented a bill intituled Transportation Amendment Act,

D. Davies: I move that a bill intituled Transportation Amendment Act, 2023,

of which notice has been given in my name on the order paper, be

introduced and now read for the first time.

Today I rise to introduce this bill for the first time to

highlight the dangers of abandoned vehicles on the sides of major

roadways and ditches. Too often these vehicles, which are left by their

owners, cause accidents and major traffic delays and far too many close

calls for drivers. In some cases, when these vehicles are abandoned,

they are left for multiple days and sometimes for weeks before they are

moved from the roads. This is a major concern, as they are now a serious

road hazard as they are often barely on the shoulder.

They also, at times, pose environmental risk by leaking oil or

fuel after being left upside down or on their side for extended periods

of time in our ditches. In the winter, these abandoned vehicles pose an

even greater risk when road conditions are poor and vision is limited.

It’s important that these vehicles do not sit there for long periods of

time when they are a huge risk to oncoming traffic.

[2:00 p.m.]

I hear from drivers, truck drivers and regular highway users all

the time about abandoned vehicles. In fact, a number of times I’ve

driven from Fort St. John to Victoria and passed a few of these vehicles

wrapped in police tape, only to see them still on the side of the road a

week later.

In 2022, there was a horrific accident on the Alaska Highway just

outside of Fort St. John where a tanker truck struck an unoccupied

vehicle that was left abandoned on the highway. Tragically, the driver

did not survive. This devastating accident engulfed the highway in

flames and subsequently led to the highway being shut down for

weeks.

This bill would strengthen the already existing legisla­tion

and give more authority to agencies to remove vehicles sooner, before

they pose a safety risk. I hope the House can come together and realize

the importance of the safety of our drivers by supporting this bill and

to limit these tragic and avoidable accidents in the future.

Mr. Speaker: The question is first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

D. Davies: I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second

reading at the next sitting of the House after today.

Bill M224, Transportation Amendment Act, 2023, introduced, read a

first time and ordered to be placed on orders of the day for second reading

at the next sitting of the House after today.

Statements

(Standing Order 25B)

NURSING WEEK

AND CONTRIBUTIONS OF

NURSES

S. Chant: I would like to begin by acknowledging that I’m speaking from the

lands of the lək̓ʷəŋən, specifically

the Songhees and Esquimalt people.

North Vancouver–Seymour, my riding, where I live and work, is in

the territory of the Coast Salish, specifically the Tsleil-Waututh and

Squamish Nations. I’m grateful to have the opportunity to work, learn

and learn alongside these Indigenous communities.

May 8 through 14 is National Nursing Week, centred around Florence

Nightingale’s birthday on May 12. The theme this year is “Our nurses.

Our future.” This theme showcases the many roles that nurses play in a

patient’s health care journey. The pandemic brought to light the courage

and commitment that nurses work under every day and showed the important

role that nurses play in their communities.

The following passage is from an affirmation affixed to the wall

in one of our community clinics.

“Nursing is all about touching lives, and lives touching yours along

the way. It is a beautiful thing when a career and a passion come

together. Our job is to love people, when it hurts, when it’s awkward,

when it’s uncool and embarrassing. Our job is to stand together to carry

the burden of one another and to meet each other in our questions. Not

all angels have wings. Some have stethoscopes. Once a nurse, always a

nurse.

“No matter where you go or what you do, you can never truly get out

of nursing. It’s kind of like the Mafia; you know too much. May your

coffee or tea be strong and your scrub game on point. Beautiful enough

to stop your heart. Skilled enough to restart it. The best way to find

yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others. Care for one,

that’s love. Care for hundreds, that’s nursing. Nurse is just another

word to describe a person strong enough to tolerate everything and soft

enough to understand everyone. Strong, independent, motivated,

hardworking, reliable, determined, loyal, selfless, dedicated, loving,

compassionate. We are nurses.”

Thank you to the nurses of British Columbia, this week and every

day.

B.C. BEEF DAY

AND RANCHING

INDUSTRY

I. Paton: Well, the proverbial phrase, “Where’s the beef?” has been

answered, ladies and gentlemen. Happy Beef Day at the

Legislature.

Today we’re celebrating the hard-working ranchers who provide some

of the finest feeder and cow-calf operations in Canada. From the lush

green pastures of the Fraser Valley and Vancouver Island to the rugged

hills of the Cariboo-Chilcotin, the Peace country, the Kootenays and the

Nicola region, our B.C. beef is known for its exceptional quality and

flavour.

An important part of our local economy, our farmers and ranchers

are some of the most skilled and dedicated agriculture producers in the

province, and they play a crucial role in supporting rural communities

and sustaining our food supply.

They are also some of the most resilient people. They have faced

many challenges over the years, from fires, floods to drought, flooding

mudslides, loss of grazing tenures, loss of water rights, loss to

predators and skyrocketing feed prices. Yet they continue on with the

family tradition, coping with meagre profits.

Did you know, Mr. Speaker, that a beef cow produces one calf per

year and carries that pregnancy, like humans, for nine months? Most

calves are born in spring and sold off in the fall at a weight of around

600 pounds. The auction may get the rancher $3 per pound in the fall for

that calf, but due to the myriad input costs, the rancher really only

nets about 75 cents out of that $3 per pound.

[2:05 p.m.]

At that stage, these young steers make the journey to a B.C. or an

Alberta feedlot. That is why it is so important to support these folks

that raise and feed cattle in this province. By choosing B.C. beef at

our farmers markets or local grocery stores, we’re not only getting a

locally grown and humanely raised product, but we’re helping to sustain

a high-risk, family-run business.

Today we are not just celebrating resilience. We cele­brated

a fabulous lunchtime beef barbecue, so let’s raise a glass and a fork to

the hard-working people who keep our plates full and our taste buds

happy.

Thank you to all the B.C. ranchers and farmers out there. We

appreciate everything you do.

ASIAN HERITAGE MONTH

AND ANTI-ASIAN

RACISM

M. Elmore: Every day we’re grateful for the people who make our province a

diverse, strong and resilient place to live. Today I want to honour

Asian Heritage Month, in celebration of the many contributions that

communities and people of Asian descent have brought to British

Columbia.

Asian-Canadian cultures in B.C. include descendants from nearly 50

countries on the continent of Asia such as the Far East, Southeast Asia

and the Indian subcontinent. This diverse group of people have been

living and working in our province since Chinese workers landed in the

Nuu-chah-nulth territories in 1788.

Over the last two centuries, immigrants have journeyed to British

Columbia from all parts of Asia, enriching our province with many

languages, religious traditions, intellectual contributions and

entrepreneurial initiatives.

Unfortunately, there’s also a long history of systemic

discrimination that has unfairly targeted Asian people in B.C. and

people of Asian descent. They faced a rise in racially motivated attacks

in recent years. That’s why all of us in this House, I know, share the

commitment to do our part to make B.C. a better place for everyone — a

place where we acknowledge our historical wrongs, provide justice to

communities and stand in solidarity against all acts of racism and

anti-Asian racism.

In a few short weeks, the Chinese Canadian Museum in Vancouver’s

historic Chinatown will open its doors. The province has invested close

to $50 million to bring Canada’s first museum dedicated to

Chinese-Canadian history to realization. We continue to work closely

with the National Association of Japanese Canadians to provide lasting

recognition of the traumatic internment of more than 22,000 Japanese

Canadians during World War II.

By learning more about Asian cultures, traditions and histories,

we can build a truly inclusive society, and I know everyone here joins

me in celebrating Asian Heritage Month. The 27th explorASIAN Festival

brings together over 60 Asian Heritage Month events.

I’d like to close and recognize the interconnected artist

spotlight Lenore RS Lim. She says: “Change is the force that motivates

me as an artist, a mother and a person. Change requires us to alter

comfortable routines, to rethink paradigms, to try new ways of doing

things. Constant evolution is one of the few undeniable truths in

life.”

COMMUNITY RESPONSE TO

WILDFIRE IN

M c BRIDE AREA

S. Bond: Imagine looking out your back door and seeing enormous plumes of

smoke and hearing the roar of flames, knowing that an out-of-control

wildfire is heading toward you, your family and your home. That is

precisely what happened to many residents in the village of McBride and

surrounding area last week.

This wouldn’t be the first time that these families had faced

extreme weather events. In fact, they have had to deal with mudslides,

flooding and wildfires. As someone who has represented this region for

years, it is devastating to think that once again there was a need for

this community to step up, face down the danger and support one another.

And that is exactly what they did.

Volunteer firefighters from McBride, Valemount and outside our

region worked tirelessly from the moment the fire started. Volunteers

made sandwiches, delivered food, offered homes for refuge, transport of

livestock, you name it. People were there to support one

another.

Elected officials, the regional district of Fraser–Fort George,

the village of McBride and Valemount staff and, of course, the B.C.

Wildfire Service and emergency management staff worked long hours to

manage the extremely dangerous and volatile situation. And then the rain

came, and for that, we are grateful.

As we speak, and in the days and weeks ahead, many more families

and communities will face very similar circumstances. Each of these

situations provides us with the opportunity to learn lessons and improve

our response. That is our responsibility, and we must make it a

priority.

[2:10 p.m.]

As for the people of McBride, I could not be more proud of their

response and their resilience. It is said that difficult times bring out

the best in people. That was certainly the case in McBride and the

surrounding region.

They are an example of why I absolutely love where I live and

where I serve.

CHILD AND YOUTH IN CARE WEEK AND

SUPPORTS FOR FORMER

YOUTH IN CARE

G. Begg: B.C. Child and Youth in Care Week will be observed this year from

May 29 to June 4.

Created by and for youth in care to celebrate and honour children

and youth who have been and are currently in government care, its

purpose is to raise awareness about the barriers they may face and to

challenge the stigma that can sometimes be associated with being in

care. The week reminds us that all children and youth from care have a

right to the supports, tools and relationships that help them thrive as

they transition to adulthood.

In this province, there is now a comprehensive suite of supports

and services for young adults transitioning to adulthood from care such

as a $600 monthly rent supplement, more flexible housing supports,

increased medical and dental benefits, funding to develop life skills

and build cultural connections, as well as a no-limit earning exemption

and improved access to youth transition workers.

For the first time in B.C., government has the legal authority to

support all youth from care over 19 to the age of 27. Under the

future-ready action plan, the provincial tuition waiver program has been

extended so that all former youth in care, no matter what their age,

will be eligible to have their tuition waived for post-secondary

education or training.

To all children and youth in and from care: know that we from all

sides of this House see your courage, your ingenuity and your strength.

Know that we will continue to stand with you.

LOUIS THOMAS AND WORK

AS SECWEPEMC KNOWLEDGE

KEEPER

G. Kyllo: I rise today to speak about a remarkable individual who has

dedicated his life to community-building and preserving the traditions

of the Secwepemc peoples. My friend Louis Thomas, a former Neskonlith

councillor and community leader, is someone who has made an indelible

impact on the people of Shuswap.

Louis’s passion for preserving his culture and his language is

something that he inherited from his mother, Mary Thomas, a well-known

community leader. Like his mother, Louis is kind, helpful, happy and

generous and a natural storyteller. Throughout the years, he has been an

invaluable resource to me and my office, keeping us informed of

important developments and issues affecting our region.

Louis is a respected leader and mentor, promoting First Nations

and edible medicinal plants and advocating for the establishment of a

friendship centre in Salmon Arm, a place where all can gather and come

together to find reconciliation through mutual understanding and

respect.

I had the privilege of showing Louis around Victoria a few years

ago and introducing him to this House. His respect for our democracy was

clear, and his presence was certainly felt. Louis is one of a kind. His

insights and wisdom have helped to shape the conversation around issues

facing Indigenous peoples in our province.

Louis is one of four people in the region to receive the 2020

Okanagan College honorary fellowship award, the highest distinction the

college can give, for his outstanding work within the community. As a

Secwepemc Knowledge Keeper and a Neskonlith councillor, Louis has worked

tirelessly to promote cultural understanding and to share his knowledge

and guidance with others.

The importance of community-building and cultural understanding

cannot be overstated. Louis Thomas has shown, through his life’s work

and dedication, that building bridges of understanding and respect can

unite us and make our communities stronger.

I ask this House to join me in thanking Louis for his invaluable

contributions. I know that he will continue to be a guiding force in our

Shuswap community for years to come.

M. Dykeman: I seek leave to make an introduction.

Leave granted.

Introductions by Members

M. Dykeman: Joining us in the gallery are 32 grade 5 students also from Langley

Christian School, joined by their teacher Lauren Hogg. I was wondering if

the chamber could please join me in making them feel very

welcome.

[2:15 p.m.]

Mr. Speaker: All right, let’s close our electronic devices so we can start with the

question period.

Oral Questions

REPORTS ON

MANAGEMENT OF B.C.

HOUSING

K. Falcon: Another day and another development in the Premier’s B.C. Housing

scandal.

For almost half a decade, we know that this NDP government sat on

a very damning accounting report by the firm BDO that sounded the alarm

about the financial management that was taking place at B.C. Housing and

at Atira. When pressured to respond to a leaked report last year, B.C.

Housing issued a patently false statement that read: “The

recommendations in the draft BDO report were reviewed and appropriately

addressed by Atira and B.C. Housing.”

This attempt to sanitize the BDO report happened under the

Premier’s watch while he was the Minister Responsible for Housing.

Despite the NDP government’s best attempts to cover up, shift blame, try

and distract, the fact is that truth continues to rise to the

surface.

We’re now learning of a third damning Ernst and Young report that

was completed last year and relates to the former CEO of B.C. Housing, a

report that has never been made public by this NDP government. We’re

also hearing from former board members of B.C. Housing that this report

has been hidden behind the non-disclosure agreements the Premier and

former Minister Responsible for Housing forced them all to

sign.

My question is: will the Premier make that hidden, third Ernst and

Young report public today, remove the gag orders that he’s put in place

on former members of the B.C. Housing board and allow the truth about

their own mismanagement of B.C. Housing to be released for the public to

look at?

Hon. R. Kahlon: I appreciate the member’s question, and I thank him for it.

There’s a couple things I would say.

First off, on the BDO report, the member keeps repeating that….

For some reason, he suggests that we would hide a report that looks into

their time in government, right? Their time in government. The BDO

report, what he refers to, was done in 2017, was looking at the time

when the B.C. Liberals then were in government. Why would we hide a

report from the public that has that information? It makes no

sense.

We shared with the member already in this House that a report was

commissioned by the board at the time. It was not shared with the

minister that was responsible at the time. The report then was…. A

decision was made by the board that they felt that there wasn’t enough

information to go further.

We took further steps. When the Premier came in, within three

months of coming into the file, he realized: “Wait a minute. There are

some serious issues here.” He brought in Ernst and Young through the

office of the comptroller general. They did an investigation. They said:

“Wait a minute. There are some flags here. There are some serious

issues, and we need to take further action.” That’s what the Premier

did. He took action when he saw something inappropriate.

Now, what we have learned is that in 2012, issues were raised when

the B.C. Liberals were in government. At the time, the minister said, “I

have no indication whatsoever at any time” that things have been handled

improperly.

Now we’ve learned, through Global’s reporting that in 2015, there

was actually a note sent to the chief of staff for Rich Coleman, who was

the minister for B.C. Housing. In there, they identify

conflict-of-interest issues. In fact, the letter says: “Something is

definitely not right here. Despite past notifications to various parties

of potential for the CEO to be in direct conflict of interest, these

infractions are still occurring.”

The question for the member across the way is: what did he do when

he had this information?

Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Official Opposition, supplemental.

K. Falcon: I am always glad to give the member opposite some lessons in good

corporate governance, because the fact of the matter is….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Shhh.

K. Falcon: Just a minute, the best

part is coming.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Let’s get the question.

K. Falcon: You always do this to yourselves.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

K. Falcon: You get excited before you should. Now just wait, because the best

part is coming.

The fact of the matter is we always did regular reports on any of

the housing providers, and the members may recall….

Interjections.

K. Falcon: Just a minute, this is the good part.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

[2:20 p.m.]

K. Falcon: The members may recall that in 2013, we did a review of the

Portland Hotel Society, and it turned out the former NDP MLA Jenny Kwan

and her husband, who ran the Portland Hotel Society, were traveling

around the globe — Vienna, Disneyland, Austria — all on the government

dime, money that was misspent and misappropriated. She had to pay it

back.

It shouldn’t come as a surprise that in 2017, the government of

the day also did a study to find out what was going on at Atira. That

report did cover the time the member was in office. Amazingly enough,

there’s this damning report — which was ringing all kinds of alarm bells

about the misspending at B.C. Housing and, apparently, at Atira — and

this government sat on it for almost five years. That’s their

record.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

K. Falcon: Despite all the empty talk and the rhetoric, the fact of the

matter is that the minister feigned action yesterday. He said, and I’m

quoting right from the minister yesterday in question period, “I made

sure, immediately, that staff stopped any additional funding that may be

going to Atira,” once again trying to shift all the blame onto

Atira.

Now, that was on March 6, yet a month later he contradicted

himself with a news release announcing more funding to Atira to manage

the Gastown building on Water Street, with wonderful quotes from the

minister himself.

This just doesn’t add up. The minister had the report in his hands

— not just the BDO report but the Ernst and Young report — a damning

report suggesting all kinds of problems.

Weeks later he’s announcing more funding for the very organization

that he professes to be so concerned about and that they’re trying to

put all the blame on. There’s definitely more to the story here. Indeed,

we are hearing from former board members of B.C. Housing, who say the

complete story is, actually, buried behind a wall of disclosure

agreements that they forced those board members to sign before firing

their own NDP-appointed board.

Will the minister, since the Premier doesn’t answer questions, at

least release the third hidden Ernst and Young report, suspend the gag

orders on those board members and let the truth come out for British

Columbians to see?

Hon. R. Kahlon: For the record, the member never answered the question on why they

didn’t do anything in 2015 when this information was brought

forward.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

The Minister will continue.

Hon. R. Kahlon: Again, we had a forensic investigation, a very thorough forensic

investigation done by Ernst and Young, by the comptroller general’s

office. For the first time in B.C.’s history, a report was released

under

section 25, unredacted, so the public could see all the issues

that Ernst and Young discovered.

Now, this is, in contrast, to reports having pages ripped

out….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Shhh. Members, please.

Hon. R. Kahlon: This is in contrast to an opposition, when they were in

government, ripping complete pages out of documents, triple-deleting

information. We have taken a different approach. We believe it’s in the

public interest to have this information released.

The report said that a former CEO of B.C. Housing was finding ways

to ensure that dollars went to his partner’s not-for-profit, going out

of his way to ensure that no one could be able to see what he did. That

was wrong. When we see something, we take action, and that’s what we’ve

done here.

MANAGEMENT OF B.C. HOUSING

AND ATIRA PROPERTY

SERVICES

P. Milobar: This is about this government’s actions and this government’s

decisions around B.C. Housing and Atira. The whole time that they have

been in government, they had received the 2018 BDO report, which they

tried to bury and which showed there was serious concerns with

Atira.

There was a second EY report that came out that showed serious

concerns, enough to trigger a forensic audit by EY as well, and now

there’s this buried third report, all pointing to Atira.

What did this government do as they handled that? They put their

hand-appointed board in place at B.C. Housing. At the same time, they

made sure that all their friends and insiders at Atira saw a tripling of

their funding. Who were their friends and insiders? This is the judgment

of this government. Their handpicked candidate in the

Vancouver-Quilchena by-election was on that same board that is already

having serious questions raised to this government about the handling of

public funds at Atira.

[2:25 p.m.]

They then, much to our surprise as we peel back the onion, find

out that the Forest Minister’s spouse is on the board of Atira as well.

Talk about friends and insiders, at a time that this Premier won’t

explain how the tripling of funds to an agency under non-stop bad

reports is being looked at.

Today we also learned that the government will not be scrutinizing

the for-profit property management arm of Atira, a central player in the

Premier’s B.C. Housing scandal.

No, the Premier’s choice to exclude Atira Property Management, or

APMI, from his critical review is deeply troubling. APMI is responsible

for managing SRO hotels, such as the Columbia Hotel, the Buchan Hotel,

and Burns Block, properties acquired under this Premier’s tenure when he

was the Housing Minister.

APMI also managed the ill-fated Winters Hotel, where faulty

sprinklers and empty fire extinguishers contributed to a fatal fire a

year ago that claimed two lives.

Nothing but evasion from this Premier and this

government.

After numerous concealed reports and cover-ups, why is the Premier

not subjecting every single aspect of Atira to a comprehensive financial

review? Is it because there are still too many friends and insiders

there?

Hon. R. Kahlon: There are so many things factually incorrect in the member’s

statement. Again, I don’t know where to start.

I will start with the first important piece, which is that the

Minister of Forests has acted with great integrity in this entire

process. He has recused himself from any conversation that pertains to

Atira. Not only has he done that; he hasn’t spoken to me about a single

issue since this whole thing has come forward.

That’s the type of integrity that we were hoping that the former

CEO of B.C. Housing would have had. If that had been done, if conflict

of interest rules there had been followed, we wouldn’t have had to have

the forensic investigation, and we wouldn’t have had to have the

information that we have here.

Now, the members across the way know that they also have

connections to people on the board of Atira. The Leader of the

Opposition’s former colleague is the chair of the Atira

board.

I think it’s important to note, before we throw rocks, that the

issue at the core of this report is a former CEO of B.C. Housing using

his power to try to get additional contracts, direct awards, given to

his partner, who was the CEO of Atira. This is where the issue is.

That’s what’s talked about in this report not once but multiple times,

and going at great lengths to hide that relationship and that

work.

That is where my biggest concern is. We will be taking action.

We’ve already told Atira that we will be getting that $1.9 million back.

We will be freezing new, additional funds that go to them.

At the same time, what’s vitally important is that the most

vulnerable people that the organizations support will continue to get

the support they need. In the end, that’s what should matter most: not

the political back and forth but the people who need the support the

most.

Mr. Speaker: Member for Kamloops–North Thompson, supplemental.

FIRE AT WINTERS HOTEL AND

MANAGEMENT OF B.C. HOUSING

AND ATIRA PROPERTY SERVICES

P. Milobar: Well, the minister likes to talk tough in here, but last I

checked, the friends and insiders on the board of Atira keep telling

this minister and this Premier to go away, that they’re going to do

whatever they want. They’re not changing how they do business, because

they’ve done nothing wrong, apparently.

I would also point out to the minister that it’s this Premier and

this government that are actually in charge. They’re the ones that have

been approving the money. We’re not the decision-makers on this side

right now. News flash: it’s your decision-making that’s in question here

as you triple the dollars going to Atira while they’ve been under a

cloud the whole time you’ve been in government.

Once again, based on these answers, we’re seeing further attempts

by the Premier to cover up this B.C. Housing scandal. The damning 2018

report from BDO explicitly warned of the financial mismanagement at both

Atira and their fully owned subsidiary, APMI.

To quote directly from the report, “APMI receives 80 percent of

the gross monthly payment received by Atira from B.C. Housing” — 80

percent. When the premier concealed these reports and then tripled the

funding to Atira at the same time, 80 percent of that tripling was

funnelled to the profit-driven subsidiary, APMI.

[2:30 p.m.]

That’s this government’s decision-making, yet instead of

initiating a thorough and transparent investigation into the group

implicated in the fatal Winters Hotel fire, the Premier is shielding

this portion of Atira from total scrutiny.

Can the Premier tell the victims of the Winters Hotel fire why

they aren’t entitled to a comprehensive investigation into the finances

of Atira and all of its subsidiaries?

Hon. R. Kahlon: There were two victims in that fire. I know that’s heavy on

everyone’s hearts. I know that right now there is a court case

happening, so I can’t comment any more on that matter.

I will say it’s important, for the record, to note that during the

pandemic, funding for not-for-profits to provide support for the most

vulnerable people was increased. We’re not denying that, because that

was vitally important. That saved lives. It saved lives for people

across this province. We did increase the supports for people because we

knew that the most vulnerable were disproportionately facing the impacts

of the pandemic.

Now, what we didn’t do was direct-award them to one

organization.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Shhh, Members. Members.

Hon. R. Kahlon: That is at the core of the issue. The issue isn’t additional

dollars going to support the most vulnerable people. The issue is that

when B.C. Housing got dollars, they gave direct contracts, direct awards

to one not-for-profit, which had a serious….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members. Members.

Members, please.

Minister will continue.

Hon. R. Kahlon: It’s important. This is an important point. This is an important

topic. I assume the members want to hear answers. Heckling the entire

time when we’re having an important conversation does not help this

conversation. This is a serious report, so it’s important for members to

have the detail.

Money gets funded to B.C. Housing. They make deci­sions on

not-for-profits that can provide that support. Maybe it was different

when they were in government. Maybe they directly awarded contracts to

not-for-profits. That’s not what happens here.

Decisions were made. It clearly says in the report that

the….

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Please continue.

Hon. R. Kahlon: The report lays out clearly that the former CEO of B.C. Housing

went out of his way to direct staff to direct-award contracts to his

spouse’s not-for-profit. That is at the core of the issue here. The

issue isn’t additional dollars going to helping the most vulnerable

people. I know that members across both sides supported additional

dollars to go to support the most vulnerable.

What we didn’t support is decisions being made without procurement

processes, going directly to the CEO’s partner. We all agree that that

is not appropriate behaviour, and that’s why we released that

report.

LIVING WAGE POLICY

AND LABOUR DISPUTE IN TRANSIT

SYSTEM

S. Furstenau: Good to hear about the concern over direct-award, no-bid

contracts. Hopefully, this government will look into the $430 million at

Site C that’s been direct-awarded with no bids.

My question, not on that topic, is to the Premier. Does the

Premier believe that workers in this province should be paid a living

wage?

Hon. H. Bains: I want to thank the member for her question. It is important,

because everyone on this side of the House respects workers, and they

respect their right to earn a good living.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Members.

Are you feeling better now? Please.

The minister will continue.

Hon. H. Bains: When we formed government, minimum wage in this province was one

of the lowest in the country. Why? It was frozen for ten years by the

previous government. Ten years it was frozen.

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Shhh. Members. Members.

Members, no interruptions, please.

Hon. H. Bains: At the same time, tax breaks were given to the 2 percent highest

wage earners in this province.

When we formed government, we appointed a fair wages commission.

They came back, after consulting with communities, consulting with

labour activists, consulting with businesses, especially small

businesses, and recommended that the minimum wage should go up to $15 an

hour over a four-year period. That’s what we did. After four years,

minimum wage went to $15.20. I’m proud to say that that was the highest

of all provinces in this country.

[2:35 p.m.]

Then we said that the minimum wage should be tied to the rate of

inflation. We did that last year, at 2.8 percent, because that was the

inflation the previous year. We did that again this year, a 6.9 percent

increase, because that was the inflation rate for last year. Again, this

is the highest of all provinces in the country. We’re really proud of

that.

Mr. Speaker: Leader of the Third Party, supplemental.

S. Furstenau: I was actually asking about living wages, but let’s look at

workers in this province who provide essential public

services.

As we speak, a transit strike in the Fraser Valley is entering its

seventh week. Thousands of people have been unable to use public transit

to get to work or school. Fraser Valley residents are frustrated, but

people understand the plight of these transit workers.

Bus drivers in the Fraser Valley make 32 percent less than those

in neighbouring regions. They often work long standby hours, for which

they receive less than $3 an hour, and they have no pension plan.

Workers are underpaid and overworked, so they’re on the picket line

asking for fair wages and fair treatment.

This is what happens when governments outsource public operations

to for-profit corporations without any safeguards. Although the buses in

the Fraser Valley are owned by B.C. Transit, they are operated by a

private company, and that company is nickel-and-diming its workers. The

employer hasn’t stepped up to negotiate, and the government has remained

silent. Public operations should be publicly run.

My question is to the Premier. Will he put an end to the private

outsourcing of essential public operations and ensure that workers like

those on strike in the Fraser Valley earn a living wage?

Hon. R. Fleming: Thank you to the member for the question. We are urging all the

parties involved in this dispute, both First Transit and the union

representing the workers, who are in a legal strike position and are on

the picket lines, to get back to the table.

The Minister of Labour has offered, on a number of occasions, the

expertise of a mediator to assist the two parties to get back to the

negotiating table. So far, there is no agreement between the two parties

to do that.

We continue to believe that the solutions, both on pay and working

conditions, the union wishes to pursue are best remedied at the

bargaining table. That is how unions recently, in the transit sector,

achieved good collective agreements here in Greater Victoria, for

example, just last month. Metro Vancouver TransLink workers have also

recently achieved a collective agreement. So has the identical

contractor that’s involved as the employer in this dispute achieved

collective agreements with employees in Kelowna and other communities.

That’s the way forward at the bargaining table.

The Minister of Labour has offered the assistance of a skilled

mediator to get them there, and that’s what we hope both parties agree

to, and succeed at the bargaining table to get a lasting agreement that

helps workers improve their pay and conditions.

SERVICE MODELS FOR

CHILDREN WITH SUPPORT

NEEDS

K. Kirkpatrick: It’s not just the B.C. Housing scandal where the Premier is

failing British Columbians. After a year of fierce resistance by

parents, the Premier claimed to have paused his unilateral plan to

centralize services for children with disabilities. But despite his

clear promise to co-develop the path forward with parents, we hear from

parents feeling dismissed, overlooked and completely disregarded by this

government.

Last week we heard from the First Nations Leadership Council,

raising the same concerns. In the face of this lack of meaningful

engagement, parents and professionals have stepped up to craft a

comprehensive plan for better services. They call it the P&P plan.

It’s based on lived experience, cutting-edge research and years of work

serving these children. It offers a principled approach to diagnosis,

individualized funding for all children with disabilities and addresses

critical barriers to access.

This plan was shared with this government two months ago, and

nothing has been heard back to those parents.

Will the Premier embrace and implement this plan, or continue with

his failed top-down approach?

[2:40 p.m.]

Hon. M. Dean: Thank you to the member for the question. We have made a very

strong commitment to broader and deeper engagement, so we will continue

doing that. That’s with families, with stakeholders, with advocates,

with people with lived experience. We also will be engaging with

Indigenous rights and title holders to meet the standards of the

Declaration Act, as well.

I’ve met with the Disability Collaborative. There were 17 groups

represented on there. I continue to meet with agencies. I met with an

agency today. I continue to meet with families and other stakeholders as

well. We’ve made that commitment. We will continue listening to the

experiences, the knowledge and the expertise of people from the sector

and from the field.

We know that even today, still too many children are being left

behind. We need to build a better system that will be informed by people

with experience and knowledge. We’ll also be informed by the evaluation

of four pilot family connection centres.

We know that we need to make improvements to the system because we

need to match up services to children’s unique needs as early as

possible. It’s so important to help them on their developmental pathway

and to help children and youth thrive.

EMERGENCY ROOM WAIT TIMES

AND GOVERNMENT ACTION ON

HEALTH CARE ISSUES

S. Bond: Well, it’s not just the B.C. Housing scandal. The minister’s

comments reflect another broken promise by this Premier to families with

neurodiverse children. There is no other way we can look at that

answer.

The crises are mounting in the province and, in fact, health care

continues to get worse in communities right across this province. We

still have long emergency wait room times and hallway

medicine.

This week, in fact, we had an urgent memo from Dr. Jeff Plante. He

urged patients to actually bypass Langley Memorial Hospital. Why? Due to

the dire and near-catastrophic situation in the emergency department.

This is a highly respected physician who says that very sick patients

are being warehoused for days in the emergency department. This is the

same hospital in which Sonia Portillo nearly bled to death in a hallway

overnight.

After six years, two terms under this NDP government, how many

more patients must endure unbearable suffering, having doctors say:

“Don’t go to that hospital”? How much longer before British Columbians

deserve the health care that they need and expect?

Hon. A. Dix: First of all, I would say that the doctors, the nurses, the health

sciences professionals, the health care workers at Langley Memorial

Hospital have done an extraordinary job. Today in British Columbia, in

our acute care hospitals across B.C., there are 9,804 in-patients in our

province. Our health care professionals and workers are doing

exceptional work.

With respect to Langley, we’re taking specific actions, because

this is an issue, in particular, with hospitalists at Langley Memorial

Hospital. We are engaging them in discussions around their contract, and

I believe those discussions — they will continue on Friday — will lead

to a positive result.

In addition to that, we’re taking specific actions now at Langley

Memorial Hospital. A group of family physicians in the Langley area has

been signed to a contract to take over responsibility for patients at

the hospital. Other significant actions are being taken as we work with

all of those at the hospital: family doctors, nurses, health sciences

professionals and, indeed, hospitalists, who have been raising

significant issues about the hospital.

I must say, though, that I think the actions that have been taken

by the government have been, across the health professions, well

respected over the last period. And 3,014 doctors have signed the new

contract for family practice, 480 of whom did not do longitudinal family

practice last year. In addition, we lead Canada in the recruitment of

new registered nurses, lead Canada in the recruitment of new health

sciences professionals, lead Canada in health care workers.

[2:45 p.m.]

We are taking the actions and, in every single one of those cases,

we’re doing it in cooperation with health care professionals and health

care workers, and that’s what we’re going to continue to do.

DRUG TOXICITY CRISIS

AND MANAGEMENT OF SAFE

SUPPLY

E. Sturko: It’s not only the Premier’s housing scandal, struggling families

and the lack of basic health care that are unfolding disasters. When we

raised concerns about the so-called safe supply drugs being diverted

from vending machines in the Downtown Eastside, the government dismissed

our warnings.

However, a Postmedia investigation now confirms that the diversion

of publicly supplied addictive drugs to the streets has reached such

alarming levels that the street price of hydromorphone, the primary

opioid handed out at safer supply sites, has plummeted by an incredible

95 percent. Diverted safe supply pills that used to sell for $10 a pill

are now being sold for as low as 25 cents a pill around VGH and downtown

because of this government’s flooding of the market.

Unsurprisingly, doctors are reporting a disturbing rise in the

number of youths with new onset opioid use disorder and an increasing

number of youth overdoses in hospitals involving

hydromorphone.

Can the Premier confirm that specialists in addiction medicine are

so alarmed by the consequences of hydromorphone and safe supply that

they’ve ceased prescribing it and they are now withdrawing their

patients from it?

Hon. J. Whiteside: I want to be clear about the federal program that operates

dispensing machines that are operated by biometric markers, in order to

provide access to those individuals who have prescriptions for safer

supplies. I understand that Health Canada is monitoring and

evaluating…

Interjections.

Mr. Speaker: Shhh. Shhh.

Hon. J. Whiteside: …the practices with respect to that program.

I would say, with respect to diversion, that diversion is

certainly something that our public health officials are looking at as

part of the evaluation of our prescribed safer supply programs. I know

that health authorities work very closely with prescribers and with

pharmacists in order to monitor that situation and evaluate that

situation. It is certainly part of the evaluation process that applies

to our safer supply programs.

We will continue that evaluation in conjunction with our public

health officials and our health authorities.

[End of question period.]

Tabling Documents

Hon. N. Sharma: I have the honour to present the Crown Proceeding Act report for the

fiscal year ended March 31, 2022.

Hon. H. Bains: I have the honour to table the WorkSafeBC 2022 Annual Report and

2023–2025 Service Plan .

Statements

BROADCAST INTRUSIVE ALERT

Hon. B. Ma: I rise to make a correction on something I said earlier today

about the BI alerting system. I had earlier described that the BI

alerting system forces its sound onto your phone even if it is turned

off. It turns out that it only does it on some devices and in some

cases, which is why we warn people about it, but it does tend to sound

at the audio level that the users have set.

I wanted to clarify that and apologize for saying it incorrectly

earlier.

Orders of the Day

Hon. R. Kahlon: I call third reading on Bill 5, Public Service Labour Relations Amendment

Act.

In committee room A, I call Committee of Supply on Votes 1 to 10 and Vote

33, followed by continued debate on the Committee of Supply for the Ministry of

Post-Secondary Education and Future Skills at 3 p.m.

Mr. Speaker: Let’s first deal with the third reading.

Third Reading of Bills

BILL 5 — PUBLIC SERVICE LABOUR

RELATIONS AMENDMENT ACT,

Hon. K. Conroy: I move third reading of Bill 5.

A. Olsen: I move:

[That the motion for third reading of Bill (No. 5) intituled

Public Service Labour Relations Amendment Act, 2023 , be

amended by deleting the word “now” and substituting “six months

hence.”]

On the amendment.

[2:50 p.m.]

A. Olsen: I’m concerned specifically by the language that was amended

yesterday. Bringing this act into force by regulation of the

Lieutenant-Governor sets up an imbalance, at the table, between the

lawyers and the government.

Basically, what’s happening here is…. We are, in passing this

bill, going to give a powerful tool, which imbalances those negotiations

in the government’s favour…. This government has proven, by carrying

this bill all the way through to this final stage of the debate, that

they’re willing to use the legislative option if they choose

to.

What I’m offering, with this hoist amendment to delay this by six

months, is a good-faith gesture by this government. Set it aside for six

months. Go to the table and negotiate. Use this tool when we come back

in the fall, if necessary. As the Minister of Transportation said, these

decisions are best remedied at the table.

Clearly, that’s not what’s happening in this instance. So I’m

giving the government and all members of the House the opportunity to

provide this space and time.

Mr. Speaker: Members, the question is on the amendment proposed by the member

for Saanich North and the Islands.

Division has been called.

[2:55 p.m. - 3:00 p.m.]

Amendment negatived on the following division:

YEAS — 25

Ashton

Banman

Bond

de Jong

Doerkson

Falcon

Furstenau

Halford

Kirkpatrick

Kyllo

Lee

Letnick

Merrifield

Milobar

Morris

Oakes

Olsen

Paton

Ross

Rustad

Shypitka

Stewart

Stone

Sturko

Wat

NAYS — 49

Alexis

Babchuk

Bailey

Bains

Beare

Begg

Brar

Chandra Herbert

Chen

Chow

Conroy

Coulter

Cullen

Dean

D’Eith

Dix

Donnelly

Dykeman

Eby

Elmore

Farnworth

Fleming

Glumac

Greene

Heyman

Kahlon

Kang

Leonard

Lore

Malcolmson

Mercier

Osborne

Paddon

Popham

Ralston

Rankin

Robinson

Routledge

Routley

Russell

Sandhu

Sharma

Simons

Sims

R. Singh

Walker

Whiteside

Yao

Mr. Speaker: Now on the main motion.

Bill 5, Public Service Labour Relations Amendment Act, 2023, read a

third time and passed on division.

[3:05 p.m.]

Hon. R. Kahlon: I call Committee of Supply on the Premier’s office

estimates.

Committee of Supply

ESTIMATES: OFFICE OF THE PREMIER

The House in Committee of Supply (Section B); S. Chandra Herbert in

the chair.

The committee met at 3:08 p.m.

The Chair: Okay. We will start the Premier’s estimates for the Office of

the Premier.

I will ask the hon. Premier to move the vote.

On Vote 11: Office of the Premier, $16,045,000 .

The Chair: Do you want to start with an opening statement?

Hon. D. Eby: Yes, thank you, hon. Chair.

I’d like to start by acknowledging we’re on the territory of the

lək̓ʷəŋən-speaking people, the

Songhees and Esquimalt Nations.

Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the Premier’s office

estimates with members of this House.

For members’ advice, I’m joined today by several members of my

staff: Matt Smith, to my right, chief of staff; to my left, Shannon

Salter, Deputy Minister to the Premier; behind me, Aileen Machell,

deputy chief of staff; and Doug Caul, deputy minister, policy and

coordination, Office of the Premier.

Before we begin the budget estimates of the Premier’s office for

the year ahead, I’d like to take a few minutes to reflect on the last

six months. I’ve been Premier of this beautiful province now for almost

half a year. It’s a great honour and, certainly, an even greater

responsibility. In this time, I’ve been to many corners of the province.

I’ve been welcomed into homes and businesses and communities, and people

have shared the challenges they’re facing in their lives.

[3:10 p.m.]

Global inflation has increased the cost of essentials like

groceries. The long-lasting effects of the pandemic have strained

hospitals and clinics and health care workers. The record growth of our

province has made it hard to find a family doctor for many families. The

influence of wealthy speculators and investors on the housing market has

made it difficult to find an affordable home, even if you make a good

middle-class living.

I do hear something else when I’m talking to people across the

province, and that’s hope. Despite everything we have been through

together, British Columbians are rightly optimistic about their province

and our future. Everywhere I go, people pull me aside to tell me what

they’re working on and how they’re helping to build a stronger future

for themselves, for their families and for their community.

Some say, certainly, that we should respond to the global

uncertainty we’re seeing by pulling back and by reducing services or

respond to the health care challenges we’re seeing by making people pay

out of pocket for health care. Of course, that would make many of our

most serious challenges worse. It would pass down costs at a time when

people can least afford it. We couldn’t afford that kind of go-it-alone,

shortsighted approach before, and we sure can’t afford it

now.

These challenging few years have really shown us one thing. One

thing that we’ve really learned from the pandemic is that we’re all in

this together. We’re strongest when we take care of each other, when we

ensure nobody falls through the cracks — everyone has a roof over their

head, and in particular, the public services that people rely on are

there when they need them, from health care to great schools, to mental

health and addiction support — when we’re all, if the members will

forgive me, united.

When I was sworn in, I promised to hit the ground running, to

bring people together to solve problems whenever possible, in ways that

people could see and feel in their communities, and to take on powerful

interests that hold us back. That’s exactly what our team has been

working hard to do every single day.

We’ve taken action to help people with rising costs as a result of

global inflation. In fact, on day one, the first action I took as

Premier was to put money back in people’s pockets with the new

cost-of-living credits. Then we froze ICBC basic rates for two years,

kept ferry fares affordable, cut child care fees by hundreds of dollars

each month. That builds on the measures we’ve taken since we formed

government, like eliminating MSP and bridge tolls.

We’ve taken strong action to tackle the housing crisis. For

example, a new law is putting an end to rental restrictions in stratas

that left units sitting empty. Our new Homes for People plan will help

us build more homes that people can afford faster. While there is a lot

more to do, we are starting to see encouraging signs. Rental housing

construction is at its highest level in ten years.

We’re taking action to strengthen public health care so care will

be there when people need it and where they need it. We’re building new

hospitals and a new medical school, and we signed a new deal with

doctors that is attracting and retaining more family doctors. We’re

starting to see results here too. That agreement has already resulted in

482 more family physicians taking new patients. And thanks to new

supports and a faster assessment pathway, 2,800 internationally trained

nurses will soon be caring for patients in B.C. hospitals and

clinics.

Our government has been working to make our communities safer and

stronger. We’ve introduced new measures to keep violent and repeat

offenders off the streets. We’re hiring 250 more RCMP officers to keep

people safe, particularly in rural B.C. and with specialized teams. And

we passed new laws in this Legislature to crack down on money laundering

and organized crime.

In the shadow of global storm clouds, we’ve taken action to build

a strong and clean economy, one that works for everyone, not just those

at the top. Our B.C. manufacturing fund is helping mills retrofit and

create sustainable, secure, good-paying jobs, whether it’s a forestry

company seeking new equipment to make mass timber products or setting up

a new plastics alternative facility in a rural community at a closed

pulp production line.

Just last week we launched our future-ready action plan to help

people get the skills they need to fill in-demand jobs and to make sure

people are ready to seize opportunities and businesses have the talent

they need to grow.

By putting people first, we built the strongest economic recovery

in Canada post pandemic. We carefully put last year’s surplus back to

work for people, like a new fund to support communities on the front

lines of growth who are struggling to maintain a high quality of life as

more and more people choose to move here — to help improve roads and

water treatment facilities, to build more arenas and trails and to

expand recreational options for families like pools and community

centres.

As I said on the day I was sworn in at the Musqueam Community

Centre, I believe B.C. should be a place where everyone can build a good

life, where people can afford a decent home and feel safe in their

community, where they have access to a family doctor without having to

marry one — I have nothing but good things to say about that choice —

where our kids are learning in great neighbourhood schools, where people

can find a good job in a growing and clean economy and where we

accomplish all of this in partnership with Indigenous peoples so that

all of our boats rise together.

By working together, we increase resources and pros­perity

for everyone living in B.C. I know every one of us wants to see these

outcomes, even if we don’t always agree on how to get there.

Hon. Members, thank you for the opportunity to an­swer your

questions today.

[3:15 p.m.]

K. Falcon: Thanks to the Premier for those opening comments, covering a wide

range of issues, which is good. I intend to have the opportunity, with

the Premier’s support, to canvass a number of those issues.

I thought I would start off on housing. I think it’s a very

topical issue. It’s an issue that the Premier prior to being Premier had

direct responsibility for.

I’d like to start off where we left off. We were asking some

questions of government with referral to B.C. Housing and a BDO report.

This is an accounting firm, BDO. The previous government had

requisitioned a report on the operations of B.C. Housing and Atira. The

report was returned to the new NDP government in 2018, and it was a

draft report.

I have a number of questions about that report. Firstly, a simple

question. Was the Premier briefed on that report when he became the

Minister Responsible for Housing?

Hon. D. Eby: No, I wasn’t.

K. Falcon: I’ve been a minister in government with several significant

portfolios, including Finance, Transportation, Health, etc. I must say

that I’m challenged to think that the professional bureaucracy would not

make an incoming minister aware of a report that is so devastating in

terms of its outlining of a massive amount of potential misappropriation

of funds, misspending, contracts let without proper paperwork,

etc.

Is it the view of the Premier that he received no conversations

with the former minister, who would have been the minister at the time

that report was tabled with government?

Hon. D. Eby: The report came to my attention through public media reports. I

was briefed on it at that point.

I understand the history of the report is…. It started under the

previous government and looked back at a time under the former B.C.

Liberal government. The advice I received was that it was resolved

internally at B.C. Housing. As I advised the member, I was not briefed

on it.

K. Falcon: A report by BDO was leaked on March 30, 2022. A statement by B.C.

Housing — which was under the direct responsibility of the Premier, at

that time the Minister Responsible for Housing — included a statement:

“The recommendations in the draft BDO report were reviewed and

appropriately addressed by Atira and B.C. Housing.” Was the Premier

aware that that statement was inaccurate?

[3:20 p.m.]

Hon. D. Eby: As I advised the member, I was not aware of the report until the

media reported on it. By that point, the work by E&Y was well

underway.

The member has both the initial E&Y report as well as the

forensic investigation report, which I think conclusively advises this

House, the member and the public that, to the extent that there’s

overlap in concerns between those two reports, they were not

addressed.

K. Falcon: Well, I’m finding it challenging, frankly, Premier, to square

this, because we know that back in March, when that BDO report was first

leaked, the B.C. Housing corporation issued that statement, which is

highly misleading as we now know, given what has happened in the

subsequent E&Y reports that confirmed in spades the fact that there

was a huge challenge taking place, both at B.C. Housing and at Atira,

apparently.

When I later raised this issue on November 22 in this Legislature,

the Premier claimed ignorance of knowing anything about that report.

I’ll quote the Premier, then Housing Minister, at the time. “I haven’t

seen the report that Mr. Falcon is talking about. To the best of my

knowledge, I don’t know.” But the following day, the Premier then

admitted, “I am familiar with that report,” and indeed went on to

acknowledge that he had quietly ordered a forensic audit.

The challenge I’m having here, Premier, is that you had this

devastating BDO draft report, which, for five years, apparently, you

knew nothing about, apparently the previous minister knew nothing about,

yet this was a report that was commissioned by B.C. Housing, and I’m to

understand that neither the previous minister nor yourself knew anything

about it, stated so publicly, even though six months prior to that

issued a release through B.C. Housing saying that all the

recommendations were reviewed and appropriately dealt with, when we know

that is not the case.

I’m trying to square all of this, Premier, with the comment you

made with respect to me asking you directly about that, saying that you

didn’t know about the report, and then the next day you acknowledged

that you were familiar with the report.

Perhaps the Premier could try and explain all of this to

me.

Hon. D. Eby: I refer the member to the full text of my advice to the House at

the time, which was that when I was asked about the report, there was no

context for it and I didn’t know what the reporter was asking me about.

I came back to the House and I said: “Yes. I do know about the

report.”

The challenge that I have is that this report, apparently, we’re

told in the House repeatedly, was commissioned by the previous

government. They didn’t say anything to the public about it at the time,

didn’t announce that they had concerns, and it wasn’t even the start of

their concerns about the issues at Atira and B.C. Housing.

[3:25 p.m.]

I have a letter dated January 12, 2015, addressed to the

then-chair of B.C. Housing, Judy Rogers, from the comptroller general of

the province of British Columbia: “Dear Judy, re. conflict of interest,

B.C. Housing asset transfer. I received the attached email regarding a

concern over conflict of interest. After reviewing it in discussions

with my investigation group, I feel you as chair and your board are best

placed to address this issue. I would appreciate communication back from

you as to the resolution of this issue.”

Now, cc’d to that message was a person named Steve Carr, who

worked as deputy minister under then Housing Minister Rich Coleman and a

few months later became chief of staff to then Premier Christy Clark.

Attached to it is an email that details concern about a conflict of

interest indeed around the transfer of public assets.

The conflict of interest is, of course, the relationship between

the then CEO of B.C. Housing and the current CEO of Atira — the exact

same issue the member says is a priority now for him but apparently

wasn’t at the time when the government was notified of the serious

nature of the issue by the comptroller general’s office.

This is the same office that we asked to take action, to hire

forensic investigators, to go in, to seize devices, to investigate

thoroughly the allegations when I received notice of the conflict of

interest. That is the difference here, and I think that’s important to

put on the record.

K. Falcon: The problem with that example…. I know the government did push

that out in trying to create some smokescreen, as if there was any kind

of similarity between that situation and this, but we now know that all

that was, was the comptroller general forwarding an email that had been

sent to him saying: “FYI, someone sent this email.”

It turned out that those were tenants in a building that were

concerned that Atira was going to get the management contract for their

building, which they subsequently did not. There was nothing there that

is remotely like a devastating BDO report. Yes, commissioned by our

government. I acknowledged that. In fact, we sort of canvassed this in

question period, and I pointed out it was a regular duty in our

government to actually issue reports to find out what was going on at

service providers.

The member will recall that in 2013, we did exactly the same thing

with Portland Hotel Society, because we were hearing rumblings that

there was misspending and misappropriation of funds going on there. A

study was done, and a former NDP MLA from the government, Jenny Kwan,

actually had to pay back money because of trips taken to places like

Disneyland, Vienna, etc., on Portland’s budget. So it is not at all

unusual for us to issue reports and do investigations to ensure that

taxpayer dollars are being properly spent.

What I find troubling and hard to accept is that when that report

was completed — the draft report — it was in the possession of the NDP

government, and they did nothing about it. There’s a remarkable lack of

curiosity, apparently, about the findings from…. If I understood the

Premier properly, the former minister mentioned nothing about it to him.

The current Premier, then the minister responsible — apparently nobody

mentioned it to him, and I find that surprising.

Can the Premier confirm that he would meet weekly with the

president of B.C. Housing, Shayne Ramsay?

Hon. D. Eby: First, I’m happy to answer the member’s question. In terms of the

letter of complaint, though, and the comptroller general raising an

issue of conflict, I don’t think it’s so easy to dismiss the concern of

a conflict of interest simply because a letter comes from a tenant in a

building.

I understand the member may take a different perspective. The

comptroller general, at the time, took it seriously enough to forward it

to the chair of B.C. Housing: “After reviewing it in discussions with my

investigation group, I feel you as chair and your board are best placed

to address this issue.”

[3:30 p.m.]

Of course, there is no evidence that any steps were taken to

address this issue, and what the member skips over is the important

question of why they commissioned the BDO report in the first place.

What were the red flags that caused that report to be

commissioned?

[R. Leonard in the chair.]

I can tell the member…. He may find it curious, but I think in the

context of the E&Y reports, it’s not curious at all that I wasn’t

briefed about it. In fact, the E&Y reports show significant and

systematic attempts by the then CEO of B.C. Housing to prevent the

conflict-of-interest issues coming to the attention of

government.

Now, my first notice of a serious conflict-of-interest issue at

B.C. Housing was reviewing these text messages, at which point I

immediately contacted the then Finance Minister, the member for

Coquitlam-Maillardville. We asked the comptroller general to take

conduct, hired E&Y, flew a team out from Toronto to do an extensive

forensic investigation, to dig into it. Their investigation report was

tabled in full in this House, which is, I think, the right thing to

do.

In terms of…. I’ve had contact now with a number of different

Crown corporations. I had the honour and privilege of being responsible

for the B.C. Lottery Corp., for the Insurance Corp. of British Columbia,

for B.C. Housing and, although it’s not technically Crown, the B.C.

Liquor Distribution Branch and the B.C. Family Maintenance Enforcement

Agency, which was not a Crown at the time but did become a Crown during

my tenure as Attorney General.

My practice with all of those Crown corporations was to have

regular meetings with the person responsible for decisions of those

Crowns. My practice in government, and before, is to have close

relationships with the people who are making decisions so that I can

understand why the decisions are being made, so I can ensure, as best as

possible, effective oversight.

What’s troubling about the B.C. Housing piece, in particular, is

the allegations in the investigation report of a systematic attempt that

the CEO made to deceive government — everything from altering minutes,

asking people to keep his name out of things, direct award of contracts,

spending without authorization from government. That is why we were so

concerned about the content of the report, why we took action to replace

the board.

There’s a new CEO there. B.C. Housing is in a much better position

today than they were, and we’re moving forward. We can’t let it slow

down the work we have to do on housing. We’ve got a very serious housing

issue in this province.

People need housing and B.C. Housing delivering housing for people

at risk of homelessness, people who are currently living outside. I want

to thank those front-line staff as well as the staff at B.C. Housing who

brought this information forward to the forensic investigators so that

they could do this work.

K. Falcon: I’ll take that as a confirmation that the Premier was meeting

regularly with the former CEO Shayne Ramsay, and somehow, in the course

of those regular weekly meetings…. In spite of the fact that back in

March of 2022 a leaked report, that BDO report, came out; in spite of

the fact that the Crown corporation, B.C. Housing, put out a very

misleading statement that “nothing to see here,” effectively; and in

spite of the fact that I raised it directly with the Premier and he

denied any knowledge of the report until the next day when he said he is

now familiar with the report, the Premier still insists that he knew

nothing about this devastating report.

Well, it was a regular practice in our government to do reports on

agencies of government. I would strongly encourage the Premier, in his

position, that he should be looking at the housing providers that are

doing work for the government. Obviously, a lot of taxpayer dollars go

there, and I think it’s important that, on a regular basis, government

is reviewing those expenditures and ensuring that taxpayers are getting

full value and, more importantly, that the vulnerable folks that they’re

supposed to be looking after are getting the care that they

deserve.

I’m challenged with the Premier’s attempt to portray his actions

as being one of transparency. On June 30, when the Premier, having been

in possession of the Ernst and Young report, made a determination that

he would release that report publicly — in itself a good thing…. But he

chose to release it on a Thursday evening of the long weekend, Canada

Day long weekend. Friday, of course, being the holiday.

[3:35 p.m.]

I’m wondering if the Premier thinks that releasing a very damaging

report on the eve of a long weekend in the evening is the Premier’s

normal way of being open and transparent.

Hon. D. Eby: The member had a number of submissions, I guess, to the House in

his question. One of them was an apparent professed belief that the

previous government, while he was in government and while a number of

the members sitting around him on that side of the House were in

government, regularly commissioned reports to ensure good governance

and, one presumes, released the reports to the public and told the

public about it. Of course, that’s not correct.

I listed off the Crown corporations that I was responsible for. A

number of them had significant unaddressed issues that were certainly

not in the public realm. In fact, there was compelling evidence that the

previous government had taken active steps to suppress the information

from being released, to the point of literally removing pages from

reports of recommendations that they didn’t want publicly

released.

I will say that when I was presented with those reports, I

released them whenever possible. Had I been presented with a BDO report

that detailed what had gone on under the previous administration in the

housing department in terms of a lack of oversight in a relationship

between B.C. Housing and Atira, assuming the member’s characterization

is correct there, the idea that I wouldn’t release it to the public is

bizarre, because I was minister responsible for probably less than 120

days before I launched a full external review of B.C. Housing by Ernst

and Young, which uncovered the systemic and serious issue.

Following their recommendations and advice to me that the scope

that government had given them was not sufficient to address the issue,

I worked with my colleague, the then Minister of Finance, to work

through the comptroller general’s office to retain an external party of

people who wanted to do a forensic investigation, which was then

released in this House.

Now, I understand the member is concerned about the timing of the

release of the report, and hey, maybe critique is well placed from

different quarters but certainly not from that member and their

government, because they didn’t release these reports. When they did, in

the exceptional situation, actually release a report, they removed

content from the report so the public couldn’t see it.

When we released the forensic investigation report, it was the

first time in 30 years — the first time ever, under the relevant

section

of the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act — that a

report of this nature was released under the public interest exception.

Now, I’m sure, if the member’s version of events was correct, it

wouldn’t have been the first time in 30 years that

section was used. But

that is, in fact, the situation.

K. Falcon: So we’re to believe that this Premier, who likes to fashion

himself as a get-things-done, hands-on kind of micromanager, somehow

doesn’t know about a 2018 BDO report that is devastating in terms of its

analysis of B.C. Housing in particular, and also to Atira, and then just

magically decided to do an Ernst and Young review on his own.

[3:40 p.m.]

Then the Ernst and Young review comes back, and it’s extremely

damning. The Premier’s response to that is: “I will release that on the

Thursday evening of a long weekend.” Really checks the transparency

mark, doesn’t it? It certainly reinforces why the Canadian Association

of Journalists has called this NDP government the most secretive

government in Canada, and it’s being confirmed.

Then, interestingly, following up on the release of that report on

the eve of the long weekend, the following Friday evening at 6:34, the

Premier, then Housing Minister, fired the entire NDP-appointed board of

directors.

Now, when asked about whether that had anything to do with

wrongdoing, because many in the public were certainly suspicious about

why the Premier, then Housing Minister, would fire an entire board of

NDP appointees that he appointed, the Premier’s comment was: “The

changes in the board are not related to any sort of wrongdoing” — any

sort of wrongdoing. “It’s just a change in direction and

priority.”

Does the Premier acknowledge that that was a statement that does

not align itself with the facts that we know now?

Hon. D. Eby: On the issue of openness and transparency, we took over

administration of the province from a government that used Post-it Notes

to keep records. That resulted in recommendations that we implemented

into law that a record of decision needs to be kept.

They invented, the previous administration, a new term, unknown in

government before the B.C. Liberals’ time in government, of “triple

delete.” A whistleblower in the then, I believe it was, Minister of

Transportation’s office, came forward and said that he had been

instructed to delete responsive records to freedom-of-information

requests. There’s always opportunity for improvement, but again, hard to

imagine that this is the member to lecture me on that.

I can advise the member of some updates on freedom of information.

Our government has increased proactive disclosures by 75 percent and

added six additional categories of proactive disclosure records. We made

important changes that were requested by journalists, giving them twice

as much exclusive time with records they requested before they’re public

and allowing them to file FOIs without worrying that others can see a

description of their request, which of course, was an “innovation” of

the previous administration.

The specific question. The member seems committed to wanting to

smear the reputations of some very good people who volunteered,

practically, to serve on the board of B.C. Housing, experts in housing,

to say that they were involved in wrongdoing. It happened at the time

when I had to replace the board. It’s happening again today. They were

not involved in wrongdoing.

At the time, today again, I’ll tell the member that the work that

I saw that was needed at B.C. Housing required different experience, a

different skill set than that board had. It needed some heavy lifting

around organizational culture, around processes, around safeguards. The

evidence for that is clear in the reports that have been issued. In

fact, now B.C. Housing is in a much better place, thanks to the work of

that new board, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that the old

board were good people who didn’t do anything wrong.

Now, I do want to underline that we had a point of departure about

how to respond to the preliminary information from Ernst and Young from

the first report. My belief was that the CEO should be fired or placed

on leave during the forensic investigation.

[3:45 p.m.]

I thought the information that was presented from E&Y was

profoundly concerning. I was advised by the public service that there

was a gap between me and the board in both of those perspectives.

Reasonable people, without wrongdoing, can have different perspectives

about the best path forward. But as minister responsible for the file,

ultimately it was my decision, and my difficult decision, to remove the

board and replace them.

K. Falcon: Knowing just how bad things were, why did the Premier say to the

public that the changes he made to the board had nothing to do with any

sort of wrongdoing — “It’s just a change in direction and policy” — when

he knew, because he had a copy of that report, that that was not the

case?

Hon. D. Eby: I understand that the member doesn’t accept the answer, but it

doesn’t change the reality of the answer. The board didn’t do anything

wrong. The people on the board didn’t do anything wrong. We had a

difference of opinion about the best path forward. I needed a board with

a different set of experiences, a different skill set. I said it then. I

said it in my last answer. I’ll say it again. The board members didn’t

do anything wrong. I regret very much that this member insists on trying

to smear their reputations, when he has literally no evidence that they

did anything wrong.

What he does have evidence of is significant efforts by the

previous CEO to deceive the board, to deceive government, about his

compliance with the conflict-of-interest protocol. Those people who

stepped forward to do that service on the board…. I want to thank them

for their work, and I want to underline that we needed to go in a

different direction. I stand by what I said then, in the last answer and

now.

K. Falcon: It’s a fascinating answer because we’re not in any way, of course,

smearing the former board. In fact, it’s the Premier and the current

minister responsible for Housing that keep throwing this former board

under the bus and trying to suggest that the blame lies with them for

not acting on reports that they sat on for over five years, which

clearly showed that there were huge problems at B.C. Housing and

potentially at one of the largest housing providers.

My question is to the Premier. If that’s the case, and he’s

defending this board, and that’s good…. We’ve got former board members

reaching out. I’d like to ask the Premier: why did he ask them to sign

non-disclosure agreements, and will the Premier release them from those

non-disclosure agreements so that they may speak their truth?

[3:50 p.m.]

Hon. D. Eby: I received information from E&Y that they had concerns about a

systematic and repeated effort by the then CEO of B.C. Housing to avoid

the conflict-of-interest rules. They advised me that the work that they

had done was not to a forensic standard and that the scope that

government had given them, in doing the review of B.C. Housing, was not

sufficient to delve into what they had uncovered incidentally in

interviews with B.C. Housing employees and in reviewing documents for

the purposes of the broader review.

On hearing that information, I worked with my colleague, the then

Minister of Finance, went to the comptroller general’s office, and a

forensic team was brought in from Toronto. One of the core themes of

those days was the need for confidentiality, in particular, in order to,

as best as possible, preserve as many of the records as could be

preserved at B.C. Housing — on the phones of individuals, on the

computers of individuals, on the database of individuals alleged to be

involved or who may have information relevant to the review — so that

the forensic investigators could gather those records, because there was

a feeling, there was a risk, that those records could be

destroyed.

In fact, that risk manifested. Key text messages — acknowledgment

by the Chief Financial Officer — including records of decision, were

deleted from the CFO’s cell phone and from the CEO’s cell phone and were

not available to investigators.

The board was read in to the concerns of the E&Y by the

comptroller general himself. Very sensitive information was shared with

them in order that they could fulfil their responsibility as directors

of B.C. Housing. Based on legal advice and given the sensitivity of the

information, they were asked to sign non-disclosure

agreements.

Both reports, E&Y 1 and 2, detail some very problematic

activity. But again, the member suggests that somehow I’m implying that

the board was responsible for that. I am not. The board did not commit

wrongdoing.

K. Falcon: Unfortunately, this is a pattern right across this government. I

have never seen a government that has used non-disclosure agreements

more than this current NDP government. It’s remarkable.

[3:55 p.m.]

It doesn’t matter what the sector is. Health care. Even parents

with kids with autism that want to go meet with the government to find

out what changes they’re making are being forced to sign non-disclosure

agreements. So it’s no surprise that the Premier has enforced

non-disclosure agreements on the former board.

But here’s the thing, Premier. E&Y has completed its work now,

and those board members actually would like to speak publicly. Will the

Premier, here and right now — given that that work is done; E&Y has

finished its report — release them from their non-disclosure agreements,

and if not, why not?

[4:00 p.m.]

Hon. D. Eby: Now, I know that the member is aware of the serious privacy and HR

issues at play here. I know that their side of the House is well aware

of what happens when things go sideways, when political approaches are

taken to these serious issues. The Misfire report that

investigated the previous government’s approach to a serious allegation

of a privacy breach and alleged misconduct of government employees

provided a number of recommendations to government about the need to be

extremely cautious in these situations.

A number of things flow from that, of course, relevant to this

discussion, including legal advice to government about how best to

handle this. We received legal advice that the best approach, given the

sensitivity of the information related to the role of the board, was to

ask the board to sign non-disclosure agreements, so that they were able

to fully perform their public interest duties.

I want to underline that the full investigation report, of course,

was tabled in this House, after it was done, to a full forensic

standard. We can have confidence in being able to table it for the

members to be able to review in its entirety — the first time, by the

way, that that

section had been used in 30 years since it was brought

into force.

The other piece, the member suggests, is that we don’t want people

to speak up. That is absolutely false. In fact, it was our government

that acted on the Misfire report recommendations by

establishing whistleblower protections for employees in core government,

in ministries, staff, tribunals and independent offices of the

Legislature. In fact, B.C. Housing came under those whistleblower

provisions on December 1, 2022. Health authorities are coming under

those provisions in June.

We want people to bring forward information of concern. We want to

address these issues. When we get information of misconduct — serious

allegations, as we did in this B.C. Housing file — we want to take

action, and we want to address the issue.

The member keeps skating over which government it was that

announced to the House that there was an investigation and which

government it was that commissioned a report and didn’t tell anybody

about it. It was the B.C. Liberal government that commissioned a report

and didn’t tell anybody about it. It was the B.C. Liberal government

that had concerns about B.C. Housing and Atira and didn’t tell anybody

about it.

The BDO report, according to them, reviews what hap­pened at

B.C. Housing and Atira during their time in government. When we got

notice of problems, we advised the House, released reports and used

sections of the Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act for

the first time in 30 years, so that everybody could review it. We took

action.

It’s file after file, not just a one-off but a pattern. The B.C.

Lottery Corporation — large-scale, systematic money laundering at B.C.

Lottery casinos. B.C. Lottery officials were out there doing interviews

saying: “No, this is just how people like to gamble. They like to bring

in large amounts of cash.” They knew there was a serious

money-laundering issue. Multiple reports were not released.

ICBC before the election — massive losses facing that Crown

corporation but not disclosed to the public. How was that avoided? By

booking the sale of the ICBC headquarters and by booking the sale of

ICBC.com for $10 million — neither of them was sold — so that the

public, before the election, wouldn’t know how much money the Crown

corporation was losing.

[4:05 p.m.]

The member wants me to believe that this report — the BDO report

into the problems at B.C. Housing and Atira, which was commissioned by

the previous government — was the one that they were going to release.

It was not at all like the ICBC report that was commissioned and that

had pages torn out of it. This would be the different one.

No, there was a pattern. Because of that pattern, the public did

not receive full accountability and transparency. Our government is

different. When we receive this information, we take steps to address

the issues. We’ve done it again and again. We will continue to do

that.

The government has a huge responsibility for accountability to the

public about how tax dollars are spent. It is my belief that the public

service always wants to do the right thing. They want to bring forward

the information. They need to have avenues to do that.

This whistleblower legislation will help them do that, and it will

help us do our job, as elected officials — to do what we did in this

issue: bringing it forward to the public, sharing information

proactively with the opposition, using public interest disclosure rules

to disclose to the public things that are in their interest to know.

We’re going to keep doing that.

K. Falcon: This is a very important, serious topic, and we’re talking about

the Premier’s government, okay? The Premier can try and go back into

fantasyland and talk about prior governments. We’re actually here to

talk about his government, his record, his decisions. He didn’t even

answer the question I was asking, which is: will the Premier do the

right thing and release the former board members from the gag orders

that his government put in place through their non-disclosure

agreements, so that they can talk about this subject?

Because this apparently is Mr. Transparency as a Premier, I’m

certain that he would want to have that information in the public realm

so that we could learn more about what happened at B.C. Housing. We

could learn more about the weekly meetings that the Premier would have,

when he was then Housing Minister, with Shayne Ramsay, the former CEO.

I’d be interested in knowing about that, knowing about what he was up

to. Now he’s trying to run, pretend he never knew the individual. It’s

fascinating to me.

As if a buried BDO report isn’t bad enough, after being buried for

five years, this hands-on Premier apparently knows nothing about it, and

the former minister knows nothing about it. Nobody in the professional

civil service thought to mention it to the incoming Minister of Housing.

It’s tough for me to believe.

I’ve been the minister of major, major ministries. I cannot

imagine getting a briefing that ignores a devastating report from BDO —

yes, commissioned by the previous government but landing on the desk of

the current government. But no, we’re supposed to believe that they

never saw any of that.

Let’s just not forget the devastating Ernst and Young report that

they had. The Premier, who is again Mr. Transparency, released it on the

eve of a Canada Day long weekend. Yep, that’s certainly how we do

things.

Then another devastating forensic audit now by Ernst and Young.

Under pressure in question period, with people asking why they’ve been

sitting on it for two months and when we’re going to see the report,

finally, in the last week of the legislative session, they are forced to

release that report.

We understand, from former board members of B.C. Housing, that

there’s a third, hidden Ernst and Young report on the former CEO of B.C.

Housing. That report has not yet been made public. Is the Premier aware

of that report, and will he make it public?

Hon. D. Eby: I’m aware of two E&Y reports. The first report, which is a

broad business-process report, a controls report about activities in

B.C. Housing, was released to the public.

[4:10 p.m.]

The second report is a forensic investigation, based on initial

information obtained through the first report, interviews with B.C.

Housing employees, text messages ob­tained from one of those

employees. Perhaps the member has more information about the third

report that he’s describing. I’m not aware of a third report.

I can advise the member that when I was briefed around the first

report, I had the opportunity to review text messages that I found

profoundly troubling — concerning — relating to the activities allegedly

of the then CEO of B.C. Housing, which caused me to, with my colleague,

the for­mer Finance Minister, approach the comptroller general’s

office and ask them to do a forensic investigation.

I don’t know if that assists the member.

K. Falcon: So the Premier is not aware of this report, apparently. Maybe

tomorrow he will remember the report. That’s what happened last time.

We’ll find out. I would remind the Premier, too, that he only publicly

acknowledged the forensic audit that was underway after a week and a

half of questioning here in question period, but that’s been the trend

with this situation.

The Premier, as Minister of Housing, was responsible for B.C.

Housing. We know that the minister was there on a regular basis, meeting

weekly with the CEO. During the Premier’s tenure, there was unbelievable

staff turnover at B.C. Housing — the departure of 17 senior executives,

102 staff departures representing almost 15 percent of the total

employee base.

I’ve been involved in a lot of companies, and I have never seen a

company that has that level of turnover during the oversight of this

Premier, just while he was responsible for B.C. Housing, from March 2020

to April 2022 — 17 senior executives. We’re talking about the CEO, the

vice-president of operations, chief development officer, executive

director for homelessness, executive director of finance, more finance

folks.

Worse than that, you’ll find, when you look at the exit

interviews, the kind of commentary that many of these folks were making.

I’ll touch on that in a moment. But I’d like the Premier to talk about….

Why, during the Premier’s, then Housing Minister’s, tenure, responsible

for the housing, did it see the greatest turnover of senior executives

and staff ever?

[4:15 p.m.]

Hon. D. Eby: Two pieces. First, the member outlined the dates of the

significant turnover at B.C. Housing. Of course, this was during the

global pandemic. It was a hugely stressful time for many workers,

especially front-line workers, across many sectors.

This was no less true and, certainly, perhaps more true for B.C.

Housing employees, providing services to the most vulnerable people in

our population — many of whom, it’s certainly important to note, at the

time pre-vaccine — needing to deliver services, needing to work long

hours with stressed-out non-profits trying to figure out how to move

forward.

B.C. Housing has over 1,000 employees. B.C. Housing’s staff

turnover, in fact, was below the labour market average. We issued a

forensic investigation report that said that there were systemic issues

within B.C. Housing related to the former CEO. I’m sure some of these

resignations related to that as well.

If the member is suggesting — and I don’t think he is, because

I’ve answered this so many times — that I didn’t think that there were

issues at B.C. Housing that needed to be resolved, he’s obviously wrong.

Within 120 days of having responsibility for the file, I had hired a

third-party business firm to go in and do a review of B.C. Housing, to

look at issues within the organization, to make sure they had the

controls in place, to make sure they were operating

optimally.

Our government is committed to delivering housing for people, and

we needed B.C. Housing to be operating at its best capacity to do that.

This is an organization that we had to scale up dramatically to deliver

a huge amount of housing across the province.

The member may not know this. They are now one of the largest, if

not the largest, residential developers in Canada and perhaps North

America. They have at least 17,000 units under construction, in

development. So there were huge strains. Those were the strains that we

knew about. The strains we didn’t know about were revealed in the

forensic investigation report that I provided the member.

Now, I can advise the member that staff have told me that the

board was provided with preliminary findings by E&Y following the

first report that raised concerns about the conduct of the CEO avoiding

conflict-of-interest rules, and that that work was not done to a

forensic standard. They were advised that they could not rely on that

material. Maybe that clarifies the issue of the so-called third report.

But that was the report that we directed. That was the work that we

directed to be done to a forensic standard so that we could release it,

which we did, which the member now has.

K. Falcon: Thank you, Mr. Premier.

This is getting fascinating, because it was not even five minutes

ago that the Premier was denying that there was a third report. Usually

it takes him a day before he refreshes his memory, but it appears that

we’re now getting that five minutes later.

I think I heard the Premier say that he’s confirming what we have

heard from former board members, that there was indeed a third E&Y

report. Will the Premier please confirm that? And if so, will he make it

public?

[4:20 p.m.]

Hon. D. Eby: There was preliminary work done by E&Y not done to a forensic

standard. That was the work that needed to be done, and we directed them

to do that work.

I know the member remembers the Misfire report. I know he

remembers the risk of rushing to judgment before you have all the

information. That approach literally led to a man’s death. This is a

serious issue — people’s reputations at risk.

When E&Y says, “We’ve got these concerns. It was outside the

scope, not done to a forensic standard; we recommend you do this work to

a forensic standard; we recommend you fly in a team from Toronto to

seize records, to do this to the highest standards of reliability,” we

take that seriously. And we released the results.

K. Falcon: Okay. Well, what we’re seeing here is fascinating. It’s about

deflection, it’s about evasion, and it’s about not answering

questions.

I have a simple one. I get what a forensic report is. I know they

found enough damaging information in that report that they wanted to do

more. I get that. Will the Premier release that report that he just

referenced, publicly?

Hon. D. Eby: This is preliminary information that was gathered by E&Y. We

were advised that we could not rely on it because it wasn’t done to a

forensic standard. Legal advice was that we couldn’t release it. And it

formed the basis of the forensic work that was done to a standard where

we could release it and did.

K. Falcon: This is nonsense. I’m sorry. I’ve been around government for a

long time. Been in business for a long time. You’ve got…. You can call

it a preliminary report. It’s a report. It’s work that’s been done.

Okay?

There was a report. The Premier required board members, when he

was the Minister of Housing responsible, to sign NDAs specific to not

being able to talk about that report. Will the Premier make that report

public? Now that we know there’s a third report that just five minutes

ago he was denying existed, will the Premier make that

report…?

[4:25 p.m.]

Work that was done that formed the basis, admittedly, to say, “Oh

my god, this is bad enough. We’d better do a full forensic report, fly

people in from Toronto,” because this is way worse than, apparently, the

minister was aware of, and he was the minister responsible for two

years. Will he release the report?

[4:30 p.m.]

Hon. D. Eby: I have the transcript of question period from November 23 of last

year, ’22, where, in response to a question from the member who asked me

this question, I outlined the steps that were taken by government and

the information that was available to government at the time.

I first begin by describing the first report and why Ernst and

Young was asked to do the second report.

“At that six-month mark, I asked the Crown agencies secretariat,

through the public service, to initiate a review. That review was done

by Ernst and Young. The work started in October of 2021. It’s called the

Financial System and Operational Review. That report was, in fact,

released publicly.

“During the time of that work, Ernst and Young identified that

additional questions were raised in the scope of work they’d been asked

to do and that they had more concerns. We asked them to continue that

work, and they provided details to us in June of 2022. The information

they provided to us led to us, in July of 2022….

“I say ‘us.’ I’m referring to the public service, to whom I’m very

grateful for facilitating this process.

“We requested the comptroller general to initiate a forensic

engagement at B.C. Housing.”

The member says this is the first time he’s heard that there was

information provided from E&Y, that he characterizes as a report. I

advised him of that in November.

It’s important to understand, and I think it’s critical to

understand, that when you’re talking about people’s professional

reputations — the reputation of the CEO of Atira, the reputation of the

CEO of B.C. Housing, respected across Canada for their work on housing —

it’s important to be absolutely certain, to do things to the highest

standard.

In the preliminary information provided to us by E&Y, we were

advised that it was not at that place where we could release it to the

public. So we did that work, and the