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May 3, 1999

36th Parliament, 3rd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

L006A - Mon 3 May 1999 / Lun 3 Mai 1999

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

SCHOOL BUS SAFETY

DOCTORS' SERVICES

HOSPITAL SERVICES

LANDS FOR LIFE

TAXATION

ANNIVERSARY OF POLISH CONSTITUTION

TAXATION

ROUGE VALLEY

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

TAXPAYER PROTECTION AND BALANCED BUDGET ACT, 1999 / LOI DE 1999 SUR LA PROTECTION DES CONTRIBUABLES ET L'ÉQUILIBRE BUDGÉTAIRE

PROTECTION OF CHILDREN ON SCHOOL BUSES ACT, 1999 / LOI DE 1999 SUR LA PROTECTION DES ENFANTS DANS LES AUTOBUS SCOLAIRES

WOMEN'S INSTITUTE WEEK ACT, 1999 / LOI DE 1999 SUR LA SEMAINE DU WOMEN'S INSTITUTE

GAS PRICE WATCHDOG ACT, 1999 / LOI DE 1999 SUR L'AGENT DE SURVEILLANCE DES PRIX DU CARBURANT

FAIR GASOLINE MARKETING PRACTICES ACT, 1999 / LOI DE 1999 SUR L'ÉQUITÉ DES MÉTHODES DE COMMERCIALISATION DE L'ESSENCE

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

BALANCED BUDGET LEGISLATION

ORAL QUESTIONS

GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS

SERVICES FOR THE DISABLED

FOREST MANAGEMENT

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

EDUCATION FINANCING

ONTARIO HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION

TAXATION

DOCTORS' SERVICES

NATIVE FORESTRY ISSUES

WINE INDUSTRY

PETITIONS

GASOLINE PRICES

FOREST INDUSTRY

EDUCATION FUNDING

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

RECYCLING

REMEMBRANCE DAY

EDUCATION FUNDING

PORNOGRAPHY

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

FIRE IN HAMILTON

REMEMBRANCE DAY

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

EDUCATION FUNDING

OPPOSITION DAY

TAXATION

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

SCHOOL BUS SAFETY

Mr Pat Hoy (Essex-Kent): Today I am reintroducing

an act to protect children on school buses. It has been almost three years since I first introduced my bill: three years of intense lobbying of the government; three years gaining support from local, provincial and national organizations that advocate vehicle liability; three years waiting for the government of Mike Harris to introduce a meaningful deterrent to stop reckless drivers from passing school buses illegally and endangering innocent children. We are on the eve of an election now, and this government has not acted.

We delivered over 30,000 signatures urging Mike Harris to get tough and give the school bus law teeth. This government would make parents responsible for the deeds of their children. It has allowed vehicle liability for red light cameras, the impoundment of vehicles for owners who lend their cars to suspended drivers, and toll collection on Highway 407. Our children are equally important.

I'm proud to have Colleen Marcuzzi here in the gallery with me today. My bill was introduced in memory of Colleen's daughter, Ryan, who was killed by a careless driver who ignored the flashing lights in January 1996. She has been an ardent supporter of vehicle liability.

Pass the bill, Premier. The lives of our children depend on it.

DOCTORS' SERVICES

Mr Len Wood (Cochrane North): There is a severe shortage of doctors in northern Ontario. The shortage has pitted town against town as councils offer competing incentives to lure doctors away from other northern towns. This competition is unfair and destructive, as different towns have different levels of wealth.

This is not right. The provincial government needs to step in and show leadership. That's what the NDP government did when we were in office. We took the first steps towards a progressive solution with our community health centres initiative. There are four community health centres in northeastern Ontario, the region I represent. This is good, but it's not enough. Only the NDP government has committed to bring 20 new community health centres to the north.

Why community health centres? Because they work. Community health centres encourage doctors on salary to work with a team of health care professionals. The team works together to treat patients holistically and professionally. They work with community resources to promote health at a community and individual level. Using other health care professionals along with doctors saves money and reduces the workload, the key cause of burnout for northern doctors.

The community health centre is a model that encourages our kids from the north to become doctors in the north. It is both a short-term and a long-term solution. It is good for doctors, patients and communities alike.

Only the NDP has committed $30 million to help current northern community health centres expand services and establish 20 new centres.

HOSPITAL SERVICES

Mrs Brenda Elliott (Guelph): On April 9, I joined my colleagues the Minister of Health and the member for Wellington at the gauze cutting for phase 1 of Guelph General Hospital's expansion. We saw for the first time the new ambulatory care centre, the diagnostic imaging department and the critical care unit. I am pleased to report to the House that this project is proceeding on time and on budget.

Many years ago, Guelph recognized that its hospital services had to be restructured. It was a difficult but successful process, and today I offer my thanks and my congratulations to all who have worked on this project; in particular, Dr John Pate, who is the chair of the board of the General; the CEO, Richard Ernst; and of course the board members, the staff and the practitioners in the facility.

After years of empty promises from the Liberals and NDP, I am proud to say that it was the Mike Harris government that ensured this facility would be built. Some $45.9 million has been committed to this project, with the remainder coming from the city and from the county of Wellington.

Through tremendous co-operation, Guelph has shown that restructuring can be a success. By building this long-awaited hospital, the Harris government has clearly demonstrated its commitment to quality care in a stronger Ontario. The building of the Guelph General Hospital is another promise kept.

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): Over the course of the last four months, our Premier has been travelling across the province almost being a cross between twinkle toes and the sandman.

He's gone to municipalities, cities and towns all over the province, spreading a million dollars here, a million dollars there, a million for this, a million for that, trying to get the people of Ontario to forget the nightmares of the last four years that he has inflicted upon the people of Ontario, nightmares like that of Brenda Rantala-Sykes, who had to spend 14 hours in an emergency room, passing out after 12 hours due to dehydration and injuring herself more than she was when she went in for treatment; nightmares like that of Joe Zenha and his family, who had to beg on his knees in front of this Legislature trying to get treatment for his daughter.

Day in and day out he knelt in front of the Legislature, begging for the Mike Harris government to do something, and finally they were shamed into it.

Nightmares like that of Erkki Martikainen, who had his simple pacemaker surgery delayed five times - one time too many: Erkki died. The Martikainen family was told that there was something else more important.

Mike Harris, I want you to go out on the campaign trail and you tell the people of Ontario that Erkki Martikainen wasn't worth it. The reality is, at the end of this election period there will be 20/20 vision restored to the province of Ontario.

LANDS FOR LIFE

Mr Bud Wildman (Algoma): In the time I have spent in this Legislature on both sides of the aisle I have worked very hard to involve people of northern Ontario, as well as other parts of the province, in good forest management planning and, frankly, resource management planning. When we were in government we moved to an ecosystem approach to managing our resources, to ensuring that we didn't just manage for timber, we didn't just manage for fish and wildlife, but we looked at the whole ecosystem.

This government is touting its Lands for Life process which led to what they call the Living Legacy as an answer to the needs for conservation in our province. I would hope against hope that in announcing further protected areas that first, this government has involved the people of the province and the people of northern Ontario in the consultation rather than doing it behind closed doors; and second, that they can ensure there will be good forest management practices carried out on the lands that are still to be harvested.

I fear that in exchange for agreeing to more protected areas, the government has agreed with forestry companies to allow for more monocultures, more clear-cuts, more spraying and less environmentally sensitive management of our resources. In the long run, this will harm us more than if we had never gone through the process in the first place.

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): On a point of order, Mr Speaker: You're a man of knowledge of what's going on around here. Is the government on strike today? Are you aware of that?

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Order. That's not a point of order.

TAXATION

Mr Dan Newman (Scarborough Centre): I say to the member for St Catharines, we are getting ready to cut more taxes and that's what we're doing.

Last Friday, on tax-filing day, our Premier, Mike Harris, was in southwest Scarborough. I am pleased to say I was joined by my Scarborough colleagues Steve Gilchrist, Marilyn Mushinski and Jim Brown at that event.

For years, families have been working harder and longer, but higher taxes meant that they were taking home less money. Families across Ontario struggled to make ends meet. The higher taxes imposed by the Liberals and NDP only made things worse. In fact, during their reign in government over 10 years we had 65 tax hikes in our province.

In 1995 we stopped the avalanche of increased taxes in Ontario. In fact, we cut taxes 69 times. As a result of our 30% income tax cut a typical family now saves $1,385, ending the tide of rising taxes, giving hard-working taxpayers a break that has been important.

But there is more to do. There are more taxes to cut. Our Blueprint will lower personal income tax rates by an additional 20%. This will return almost $4 billion annually to the people of Ontario. Now each family will be able to keep an additional $615 each year because of our additional tax cut. When both tax cuts are combined the people of Scarborough, and indeed the people across Ontario, will see tax savings of nearly $2,000.

The debate is over. Tax cuts create jobs.

ANNIVERSARY OF POLISH CONSTITUTION

Mr Gerard Kennedy (York South): It is my honour and privilege to rise today on behalf of my colleague Tony Ruprecht and, I am sure, all members of the House to mark May 3 as Constitution Day for Poland and Polish Canadians.

The 1791 Polish constitution was only the second democratic constitution enacted in Europe, providing for equal rights, universal education and the state care of orphans and elderly. It is the struggle of Polish people for those kinds of rights over the last few centuries which has been an inspiration to the rest of the world and people of my generation, Gdansk and the inspiration that came from that.

I am very pleased to remark that today, for the first time, the Ontario Legislature acknowledged that irrepressible spirit for freedom on the part of the Polish people with a flag-raising.

Today I would like to recognize the people who participated in that: Wojciech Tycinski, the Consul General of the Republic of Poland, who is here with us today as well some very distinguished Polish Canadians: Chris Korwin-Kuczynski, ward 19 councillor, city of Toronto; Lucjan Conrad, who is the president of the Canadian Polish Congress; Marian Fijal, president of the Polish Veterans Association; Yvonne Bogorya-Buczkowski, president of the Federation of Polish Women; Ken Romanowski, chairman of the board of directors, the Polish parishes of St Casimir/St Stanislaus; Alicia Farmus-Pietrus, president of the Canadian Polish Congress; Juliusz Kirejczyk, Polish Engineers Association; Teresa Klimuszko, community volunteer and singer; Fela Rychlicki, Polish Alliance of Canada; and Lech Prusinski, Polish National Union.

I join everyone in acknowledging Constitution Day.

TAXATION

Ms Marilyn Churley (Riverdale): Gabriel West is 22 years old. He lives at home and he has cerebral palsy. He suffers from severe seizures that could kill him. He needs 24-hour-a-day attendant care, but thanks to the Mike Harris government cuts, Gabriel West is down to two hours a day now.

His mother, Martha Eleen, is a devoted, loving mother and she has been doing everything she can to get adequate funding for Gabriel, but to no avail. She is getting desperate and is at her wits' end. She has just had to quit her job. She is a single parent and has been trying to hold her family together despite the cuts.

I see that Mike Harris is promising another 20% tax cut on top of the 30% tax cut already given, and those individuals who are in the top 6% are benefiting most from these tax cuts.

When the Globe and Mail comes out with a ringing endorsement, as I saw today, of the tax cuts brought in by the Mike Harris government, they forget about the Gabriel Wests and the Marthas of the world; they forget that these tax cuts are being paid for on the backs of people like Martha and her son Gabriel. Shame on the Globe and Mail and shame on the government.

ROUGE VALLEY

Mr Steve Gilchrist (Scarborough East): Last week the member for Scarborough North stood in his place and claimed that the Liberal government had created the Rouge park. Nothing could be further from the truth. There was still no park at the end of his five-year term when the people of Ontario decided that red was not their colour. His government did little more than make vague promises, much as his party continues to do today.

In fact, no government has done more for the protection of this unique resource than the Mike Harris government. We've gone further than either the Liberals or the NDP, and we've built on a commitment to our natural heritage which was in fact started by another Conservative government under Bill Davis.

As a partner in the Rouge Park Alliance, our government recently announced a number of important funding and land dedication initiatives in keeping with the commitment to protect the significant natural heritage areas all over Ontario.

Our donations to the park in the last year have totalled $26.3 million. We're also donating 660 hectares of provincially owned land along the Little Rouge Creek and the main part of the Rouge River in Markham. This land nearly doubles the area of the Rouge park and more than doubles its length.

The past four years have been very energetic and productive ones for those of us who have served on the Rouge Park Alliance. I congratulate everyone who serves on the alliance, including Save the Rouge Valley System and the municipal representatives, for their hard work. I offer special thanks to Mike Harris and the cabinet for their continued commitment to the environment and to our natural heritage, and for their continued confidence in the unique collection of talents and personalities which make up the Rouge Park Alliance.

REPORTS BY COMMITTEES

STANDING COMMITTEE ON REGULATIONS AND PRIVATE BILLS

Mr Derwyn Shea (High Park-Swansea): I beg leave to present a report from the standing committee on regulations and private bills and move its adoption.

Clerk at the Table (Mr Todd Decker): Mr Shea from the standing committee on regulations and private bills presents the committee's report and moves its adoption.

Your committee begs to report the following bills without amendment:

Bill Pr1,

An Act respecting the City of Ottawa;

Bill Pr4,

An Act respecting Canada Christian College and School of Graduate Theological Studies;

Bill Pr7,

An Act respecting the City of Windsor;

Bill Pr8,

An Act respecting the Columbus Club of Sault Ste Marie Ltd.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Shall the report be received and adopted? Agreed.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

TAXPAYER PROTECTION AND BALANCED BUDGET ACT, 1999 / LOI DE 1999 SUR LA PROTECTION DES CONTRIBUABLES ET L'ÉQUILIBRE BUDGÉTAIRE

Mr Hodgson, on behalf of Mr Harris, moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 24,

An Act to protect taxpayers against tax increases, to establish a process requiring voter approval for proposed tax increases and to ensure that the Provincial Budget is a balanced budget / Projet de loi 24, Loi protégeant les contribuables des augmentations d'impôt, établissant un processus d'approbation des projets d'augmentation d'impôt par les électeurs et garantissant l'équilibre du budget provincial.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

PROTECTION OF CHILDREN ON SCHOOL BUSES ACT, 1999 / LOI DE 1999 SUR LA PROTECTION DES ENFANTS DANS LES AUTOBUS SCOLAIRES

Mr Hoy moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 25,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act to protect children while on school buses / Projet de loi 25, Loi modifiant le Code de la route en vue de protéger les enfants lorsqu'ils sont dans des autobus scolaires.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Pat Hoy (Essex-Kent): This bill attempts to protect the 810,000 children who ride school buses twice daily. It aims to correct the long-standing problem of identifying drivers of vehicles who pass buses illegally by imposing liability on the owner of a vehicle that fails to stop for a school bus with its lights flashing.

WOMEN'S INSTITUTE WEEK ACT, 1999 / LOI DE 1999 SUR LA SEMAINE DU WOMEN'S INSTITUTE

Mr Wildman moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 26,

An Act to designate a week of recognition for the Women's Institute / Projet de loi 26, Loi désignant une semaine de reconnaissance à l'égard du Women's Institute.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Bud Wildman (Algoma): The week beginning the third Monday in February of each year would be proclaimed as Women's Institute Week if this government were to pass this bill.

GAS PRICE WATCHDOG ACT, 1999 / LOI DE 1999 SUR L'AGENT DE SURVEILLANCE DES PRIX DU CARBURANT

Mr Colle moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 27,

An Act respecting the price of motor vehicle fuel and the appointment of a Gas Price Watchdog / Projet de loi 27, Loi concernant le prix du carburant pour véhicules automobiles et la nomination d'un agent de surveillance des prix du carburant.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Mike Colle (Oakwood): The bill would establish the office of gas price watchdog, to be appointed by the Lieutenant Governor in Council. The gas price watchdog would monitor and report to the minister on pricing practices in the province with respect to motor vehicle fuel and conduct inquiries into pricing practices on order of the minister. The duties are spelled out in

section 3 of the bill.

Mr Michael A. Brown (Algoma-Manitoulin): Mr Speaker, I would like unanimous consent to introduce a bill on behalf of my colleague Mr Crozier.

The Speaker: Agreed? Agreed.

FAIR GASOLINE MARKETING PRACTICES ACT, 1999 / LOI DE 1999 SUR L'ÉQUITÉ DES MÉTHODES DE COMMERCIALISATION DE L'ESSENCE

Mr Michael Brown, on behalf of Mr Crozier, moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 28,

An Act to prohibit discrimination in the supply of gas and diesel oil to retail dealers / Projet de loi 28, Loi interdisant la discrimination dans la fourniture d'essence et de carburant diesel aux détaillants.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Mr Michael A. Brown (Algoma-Manitoulin): The bill prohibits wholesale suppliers of gasoline and diesel oil from discriminating unfairly between dealers who are affiliated with suppliers and dealers who are not. Unfair discrimination includes wholesaling to affiliated and unaffiliated dealers at different prices or credit terms and influencing affiliated dealers to set retail prices at or below the supplier's posted rack price to unaffiliated dealers. Suppliers must file their posted rack prices with the director, who must make them public.

Mr Rick Bartolucci (Sudbury): Is the Solicitor General introducing a bill -

The Speaker: Member for Sudbury, come to order.

Mr Bartolucci: Are you doing it? Why don't you stand up and make a statement?

The Speaker: Listen, I've got some motions I have to deal with. I think probably everyone will want to hear them. I'm sure they'll have to deal with that this week.

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet, Minister of Northern Development and Mines): I move that, pursuant to standing order 9(c), the House shall meet from 6:30 pm to 9:30 pm on May 3 and May 4, 1999, for the purpose of considering government business.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry?

All those in favour, please say "aye."

All those opposed, please say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it. I declare the motion carried.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

BALANCED BUDGET LEGISLATION

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet, Minister of Northern Development and Mines): Earlier today, on behalf of the Premier, I reintroduced a bill that, if passed, will ensure the provincial government never spends taxpayers' dollars recklessly again.

The Taxpayer Protection and Balanced Budget Act asks that governments not be able to introduce a new tax or raise a tax unless they ask Ontarians if that is indeed what they want. It asks that the provincial budgets be balanced. It asks, simply that governments of all stripes treat taxpayers' dollars as carefully and as conscientiously as they would their own and that they not be allowed to spend their way into debt and then casually increase taxes to pay for their spendthrift ways.

We must always remember that this money is not our money, it's theirs, Ontarians', taxpayers', and we have a trust to handle it wisely and well.

When our government took office three years ago, we inherited a situation where we were spending $1 million more an hour than we were taking in. Since then, we have worked hard to balance the budget, and we are on track to balance it by the year 2000-01, just as we promised.

We cannot condone a situation - the taxpayers cannot condone a situation - whereby, after all the hard work and the tough decisions of the past three years, future governments could tax and spend and drive that deficit up again.

This act proposes that governments receive the voters' permission before introducing any bill that imposes any new tax or increases the rate of personal income tax, corporation taxes, retail sales tax, employer health tax, gasoline or fuel tax or education property taxes. That is real taxpayer protection.

This act also proposes that beginning with the 2001-02 fiscal year, a deficit may only be run in extraordinary circumstances, such as a natural disaster or war.

Under normal circumstances this legislation proposes that the budget must balance. If not, there would be a personal financial penalty for the Premier and members of cabinet, with up to a 50% reduction in their executive council pay. We would be held accountable.

This bill is not unreasonable. It simply proposes that governments do what average working families do every day across Ontario: balance their budgets, pay their debts and spend within their means.

Spending within government's means does not mean simply raising taxes or taking away even more money from families' take-home pay. Ontarians deserve more. They deserve better.

Each of us who pays our taxes - those of us in this Legislature and the working men and women of this great province - would much rather our tax dollars be spent on health or education or children's services than on servicing a debt. Each of us would rather our children and our grandchildren not be held accountable for the debt of past generations.

The Taxpayer Protection and Balanced Budget Act is the toughest and most comprehensive of its kind in all of Canada. Ontario deserves no less.

Mr Gerry Phillips (Scarborough-Agincourt): I'm pleased to respond to the bill. I'll start by pointing out that Mike Harris still hasn't balanced a budget. He's not going to balance a budget, I gather, tomorrow. It will be March 31, 2001, before Harris will balance a budget. Quebec will have beat Ontario by two years. Newfoundland will have beat Ontario by two years. Every province in Canada except BC will have balanced budgets.

The last time a Conservative government balanced a budget, the people of Ontario should be aware, was 1969. Premier Harris was in the cabinet through the early 1980s. He never came close to balancing a budget, so an election must be close at hand. I think Ontario understands that. In the next few days Harris will bring in this balanced budget legislation but he hasn't come close to balancing a budget.

I remember in the last election that great photo opportunity of Mike Harris promising balanced budget legislation immediately. I remember that picture. All the candidates were very proud of it. Now we find it's going to be March 31, 2001, before there's a balanced budget.

I want to go on to talk a little bit about the debt. I don't think Ontarians appreciate that Mike Harris has added 25% to the debt of the province of Ontario. He's had his hands on the financial reins now for about four years. The way you find that number is to simply look in the budget. When he became Premier the debt of the province was $88 billion; now it's $110 billion. He's added 25% to the debt of the province of Ontario.

I realize that Mike Harris says the tax cut is very helpful. We have had to borrow every single penny for the tax cut: $9.6 billion. Where does that number come from? From the government's own budgets. They lay out the lost revenue for all the tax cuts. We have lost $9.6 billion of revenue. There's no magic to this. Harris goes out and borrows $9.6 billion for the tax cut. Ontarians have paid $800 million just to service the increased debt as a result of the tax cut.

I know people at home are saying, "I like the tax cut," but we've had to borrow every single penny for that. My background is business and I guarantee you that there'd be no bank in Canada that would loan this company called Ontario money to give itself a dividend when it's still running significant deficits.

We have the legislation. Ontario should recognize that in 1995 Harris signed this pledge: Immediately he'd have balanced budget legislation. We now find it will be March 31, 2001, before the budget is balanced. We have seen 25% added to the debt of the province. We find that we still don't have a balanced budget and I gather, as I say, it will not be this coming fiscal year, it's going to be the following year. Quebec will have beaten Ontario by two years. We have had to, as I say, borrow every single penny in order to fund the tax cut.

So we find legislation introduced that was promised to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. I remember they held a huge press conference for Mike Harris because he said, "I'll introduce this legislation immediately."

What we're finding is that as the election comes around Mike Harris is now saying, "I made a mistake on cutting $870 million out of the hospital budget." It has caused dramatic problems to our health care system. We're paying the price for that. He has acknowledged that he has caused turmoil in the education system, but it is too late. He has caused that turmoil in the education system.

We now find that we have had to borrow to pay for the tax cut. He has added 25% to the debt of the province of Ontario. I think Ontarians realize that here we are on the eve of an election, and Harris has now added enormously to the debt of the province. He's gone out and borrowed all the money for the tax cut and we finally get something he promised four years ago: balanced budget legislation.

Ontarians are not going to be fooled. This is the same old Mike Harris who has caused so much turmoil in Ontario.

Mr Howard Hampton (Rainy River): It's interesting to see that the government is trying this same old phony announcement again. They tried this phony announcement just before Christmas, and then through their own ineptitude they killed their own bill on the order paper. Now they're going to introduce it and never pass it.

I listened to the Chair of Management Board's words today lecturing people on fiscal rectitude. Is this the same party that has put Leslie Noble on the payola like never before? Is this the same party that's taken care of Tom Long? Is this the same party that's taken care of Mr Trbovich? Public money at the trough for Conservative friends? Now you're lecturing someone?

Is this the same government that wants to give $188 million to Andersen Consulting so they can go around the province attacking the poorest people in the province? The auditor says it is the most blatant government contract he's ever seen put out. Is this the government that wants to pay off its friends, Cara Operations, with an additional $2 million of taxpayers' money?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Come to order, please.

Interjection.

The Speaker: And Lake Nipigon.

Mr Hampton: Is this the same government that's going to payola its friends, Cara Operations, with an additional $2 million? Anyone who has looked at the contract can't justify it.

This government that believes public money is nothing more than a trough for Conservative Party hacks and Conservative Party friends: You're going to lecture people on fiscal rectitude?

They talk about balance and balanced budgets. We want to ask about the balance. Where's the balance when our hospital and health care system is a billion dollars behind where it needs to be, where hospitals have had to rack up a debt of $1.7 billion because of this government's underfunding? Where is the balance when municipalities across the province are trying to figure out what they are going to do as a result of this government's downloading, first, and then ridiculously stupid tax changes, second?

I have a small municipality in my riding of 4,500 people that is $1 million behind the eight ball because of this government's downloading and financial ineptitude. The community of Atikokan has no idea how a government could stick them with $1 million in two years and then walk away and talk about fiscal and financial rectitude.

Is this the government that is leaving behind chaos in the education system, special education which is underfunded, children with special needs who can't get the help they need?

Is this the government that says they can afford more tax cuts and meanwhile children's mental health gets no attention whatsoever and children's treatment centres are strictly left out of the picture?

Is this the government that's going to talk about balance when colleges and universities in Ontario now are funded at virtually the lowest level per capita in North America? Every other province in Canada funds their colleges and universities on a more generous basis per capita than Ontario, even poor provinces like Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island. In the North American context, Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi and Arkansas invest more in post-secondary education on a per capita basis than this outfit.

Then we have the environment, Ontario now with the reputation of being one of those places where, if you've got a mess and you want to ship it somewhere to hide it, to bury it, ship it to Ontario, because Ontario will take it.

Today we have the disclosure that this government is so attentive to housing policy that we've now got a shortage of 64,000 units in the province in terms of people who need housing but can't get it.

To listen to a lecture about financial balance from this government, which is going to leave behind environmental deficits, health deficits, education deficits and social deficits, makes you want to run for the bathroom. The reality is that the only balance in their picture is this: They've got lots of money for tax cuts for the well-off, and they've got even more money for their friends at the trough. That's your definition of balance.

I say to my Liberal friends, you like to complain about the tax cuts, but you won't -

The Speaker: Thank you.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Member for Hamilton East, thank you. Member for Lake Nipigon, don't argue with me.

ORAL QUESTIONS

GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS

Mr Mike Colle (Oakwood): I'd like to ask a question of the Acting Premier, whoever that is today. Mr Hodgson? Acting Premier, I want to talk to you about a backroom deal your government has just endorsed. It's one of the most blatant backroom deals we've seen in recent years, and it's costing Ontario taxpayers $3 million. It deals with Ontario Place. They decided to look for a $50-million food services contract. You would think the best bid would win, but it didn't happen. In fact, one of the bidders, Vincent Ciaravino, said: "The rules were changed to suit someone's purpose, and that was wrong.

I was basically tossed out on my ear so the big guys could come in. The whole thing stinks." This is what one of the bidders said.

In this contract here, despite what the general manager of Ontario Place, Max Beck, said and despite what the experts said, your appointed hacks to the Ontario Place board overruled the experts, fired the general manager for objecting and signed a deal that was $3 million short for the taxpayer.

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet, Minister of Northern Development and Mines): It's my understanding that the deputy minister for the Ministry of Economic Development, Trade and Tourism has had his officials fully involved in the selection process and that he has indicated the process conformed with and adhered to all government contracting guidelines.

It's also my understanding that the deputy minister has indicated that the preferred provider's proposal was absolutely in the best interests of the taxpayers in every respect.

It is my understanding that the board chair declared his conflict and did not vote and did not comment on the selection of the preferred proponent.

These are the facts as I understand them. If members of the opposition have any information to indicate otherwise, I would invite them to bring it forward so it can be reviewed.

Mr Colle: Minister, let me again be clear on what has happened. The bid your Tory hacks on the Ontario Place board overruled is $3 million short for the taxpayers. It so happens that the chairman of the board, Mr Jim Ginou, is a golfing buddy and chief fundraiser for your party. Would that have something to do with the fact that the Ontario Place consultant and the general manager were overruled, in light of this $3-million shortcoming for the Ontario taxpayer? Is that why the experts and the general manager were overruled?

Hon Mr Hodgson: As I mentioned before, it's my understanding the deputy minister has indicated that the preferred provider's proposal was absolutely in the best interests of the taxpayers in every respect.

Mr Colle: Again, the experts hired by Ontario Place, the general manager and staff, said that this bid that was put forward by your friends at Cara Operations - I'll quote from the consultant: This is "about the weakest presentation and weakest effort that we have seen in our 14 years of operating in this industry."

You tell me how this weak proposal that was $3 million short got the nod from your hacks at Ontario Place. Will you tell me why you won't ask or call for an inquiry to see why they got this sweetheart deal? Why don't we have an inquiry and see who's really right?

Hon Mr Hodgson: As I've mentioned before, and as I've presented to this House already, those are the facts as I understand them. If members of the opposition have any information to indicate otherwise, I invite them to bring it forward so it can be reviewed.

Mrs Sandra Pupatello (Windsor-Sandwich): My question is to the same minister, the Acting Premier. The Ontario Place contract is not the first time we've seen taxpayers' money go to the elitists of Ontario, the friends of Mike Harris. We'd like to also mention people like Leslie Noble, the Common Sense Revolution writer, who walked away from Ontario Hydro with a consulting fee of $91,000, and we can't find what she did for that; Tom Long, the Tory campaign manager, author, key strategist - $250,000 of taxpayers' money from Ontario Hydro. Part of his job was to write speeches at the cost of $650 an hour.

How about Paul Rhodes, the director of propaganda for the Premier, receiving $225,000, again from Ontario Hydro, for producing a 10-page fax?

Acting Premier, could you stand in your place today and explain to the taxpayers of Ontario, how do you rationalize that kind of largesse for Mike Harris's friends at the expense of everyday people in Ontario?

Hon Mr Hodgson: I understand that the opposition's intent is to throw mud against the wall and hope some of it will stick, but if not, at least they've got their message out. All those allegations you're raising have been raised before. There have been explanations and answers given. It's important to remember that this government has come in and cleaned up a lot of the duplication, waste and inefficiency in the government. We are open to looking for new ways to find efficiencies that benefit the taxpayers. A lot of change has taken place.

Mrs Pupatello: Acting Premier, let me list a few more for you: Bill Farlinger, a key Harris loyalist, in a $300,000 position at Ontario Hydro as his payback for being the loyalist. That's in addition to $138,000 in expenses per year.

Let me go on. Jim Ginou, mentioned earlier, a key Tory fundraiser, a top dog at Ontario Place, is also the chair of the Toronto Olympic bid, with co-chair, another Tory Harris pal, Steve Hudson. Barbara Minogue, Mike's best friend, now sits as co-chair of the Charitable Gaming Allocation Working Group, responsible for doling out $100 million of charity money across Ontario.

Mike Harris is like Robin Hood in reverse. I'd like you to stand in your place today and explain to the taxpayers of Ontario how you rationalize this largesse for the elite of Ontario and Mike Harris's friends at the expense of everyday people who need hospitals and schools.

Hon Mr Hodgson: I would just caution you to think twice before you impugn the reputation of people and companies that have had good reputations in this province, have worked hard on behalf of the people of Ontario and taken on some tremendous responsibilities and brought about a lot of positive change to this great province.

Mrs Pupatello: Everyone's acknowledged that Bill Farlinger is in a ceremonial position at Ontario Hydro in an enormous salary position, in addition to a huge level of expenses every year. But let me go on. As payback you're stacking every board and committee in Ontario with the Mike Harris friends. You are spending taxpayers' money in a sense that no one would ever have believed of you, especially you because you said you were different. You said you wouldn't waste taxpayers' money. Instead you're spending $100 million on propaganda advertising for a re-election campaign for Mike Harris, not to mention $180 million on Andersen Consulting with the lid completely off on excess expenses.

To the Acting Premier today, I want you to stand in your place and answer the question for everyday people: How do you explain this kind of largesse at taxpayers' expense when everyday people need hospitals and children need textbooks in schools? How do you rationalize this kind of expense at the cost of the taxpayer?

Hon Mr Hodgson: The member is correct to state that this government has taken taxpayers' money and is managing it in a more responsible fashion than previous governments. She brings up the example of advertising. I would challenge you to compare our total spending on advertising versus your total when you were in power. You'll find that we've saved the taxpayers over $100 million from your spendthrift ways.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING

Mr Howard Hampton (Rainy River): My question is for the Minister of Housing. Today, we have a new study by co-op and non-profit housing providers that shows that thanks to your government, more Ontarians than ever before are staring at the abyss of homelessness. Your government cancelled co-op and not-for-profit housing. You said the private sector would build housing. The fact of the matter is that private developers haven't built the housing. We need 80,000 units of new housing over the next five years. The private sector is only prepared to build 6,000.

The private sector won't build, can't build and isn't interested in building housing for modest and lower-income families. Your income tax reductions for the well off haven't helped lower- and middle-income families. How do you expect them to find housing? Do you have another promise to give them?

Hon Al Leach (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): We probably could do a whole lot more with housing if we had the use of some of the $9 billion that went on their housing boondoggle over the past five years. This report, Where's Home? was prepared by the same people who were at the trough for all of those years. I think all they want to do is create a situation where they can get back to the trough.

For example, let's just use some of the numbers they've used in the report to see what a bad-news story we have here: city of Kitchener, 1989-94, rent increases of 17%, under their watch; 1994-98, rent increases of 6% while we had inflation of 7% from 1994-98 - not a bad-news story. Let's pick another one here: North Bay - lovely town - vacancy rate, 5.8%; rent increases, 1994-98, 3%, inflation 7% - another good-news story. Thanks for the report.

Mr Hampton: Four years ago we said this minister he was completely lost and four years later we're able to confirm that.

The question was, we need 80,000 units of affordable housing in this province. The private sector is not building it. This means that on top of the families that are now homeless we're going to see more homeless families.

I have a copy of the current issue of Canadian Business magazine. On the cover it says, "Meet Your Next Landlord: Boardwalk's Sam Kolias is taking over Canada, apartment by apartment."

Inside we learn that Mr Kolias has $1 billion and he intends to buy up lots of apartments in Hamilton, London and Ottawa and that he then wants to use your rent decontrol act to dramatically increase the rent. On the apartments this gentleman owns in western Canada he increased the rents by 15% last year.

Minister, what's going to happen to those modest-income families, lower-income families and middle-income families if this is your only plan for housing in Ontario?

Hon Mr Leach: That is why we kept the rent control guidelines in place, so we could protect tenants while they're in their homes, and we will continue to do that.

I know nothing of the magazine the leader of the third party was holding up. If someone has $1 billion to invest in Ontario, they're certainly welcome. Any time somebody has $1 billion that they want to invest in the fastest-growing province in the country, the fastest-growing community in all of North America, $1 billion is a welcome investment. I hope he gets here in a hurry, and we'll have rules and regulations to ensure that tenants continue to be protected regardless of who owns their building.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Final supplementary.

Mr Rosario Marchese (Fort York): Minister, your government's wilful neglect borders on social criminality. That's what it is. I've got to tell you the real answer: real rent controls and a program that builds non-profit housing and co-operative housing. That's the real answer to the problem. That's what we propose instead of your plan for homelessness.

We've got to stop people like Sam Kolias before he creates more homelessness. In Hamilton and Ottawa, two of the communities Mr Kolias is targeting, over 20% of tenants already pay over 50% of their income in rent. That's the reality and that means those people are in danger of being homeless.

He laughs. The question to you and your government, Minister, is this: Do you want to stop people like Sam Kolias or do you want to see more people out on the street?

Hon Mr Leach: I'd like to quote a little bit more out of the report, in response to the member for Fort York, and just what a terrible situation the province is in.

In Ottawa, 1989 to 1994, while the NDP was in power, rent increased by 27%. Then the Conservatives came to power. From 1994 to 1998, rent increased by 2%. During that same period, inflation was 7%. Is that an isolated incident? I don't think so.

Let's talk about Peterborough, another example they show as to how things have gone to hell in a handbasket. Vacancy rate in Peterborough, 4.9% - quite a healthy vacancy rate. The rent for a two-bedroom in 1998 increased from 1994 by only 4% while inflation again was 7%.

Your own report, produced by the people who were responsible for the boondoggle in the 1990s, shows that things are pretty good in Ontario today.

GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS

Mr Howard Hampton (Rainy River): My next question is for the Acting Premier. Over the last four years we've asked question after question about the appearance of conflict of interest, shady backroom deals and influence peddling in your government. Year after year, deal after deal, it keeps happening again and again.

We don't understand how it is that you have no money for hospitals, no money for colleges and universities, no money to protect the environment, but when it comes to rewarding Conservative Party friends, just open up the trough.

So we aren't surprised to hear about the fiasco at Ontario Place. What is surprising is this: When the Ontario Place board chair, Conservative Jim Ginou, was asked about his apparent conflict of interest, he is quoted as saying: "I have no interest in any particular one (company). So, I'm so conflicted, maybe I'm not conflicted." In other words, he has so many interests in so many different companies, he's so conflicted that he doesn't feel he's conflicted any more. Is that your definition of "conflict of interest," Minister?

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet, Minister of Northern Development and Mines): First of all, the premise is completely wrong. This government has had the courage to cut taxes and create growth in the economy, and with more people working we've had more dollars to invest into health care and into classroom education. That's a point that he has been totally wrong on and is consistent on. He is opposed to every tax cut to create this growth and this reinvestment into health and into education.

In response to his overall other allegation that he's misguided on, it's my understanding that the board chair declared his conflict and did not vote and did not comment on the selection of the preferred proponent.

Mr Hampton: You must be the only person in Ontario who believes that.

Minister, after four years of your government, I don't think the public is surprised that corporations can buy influence with your government. In fact, Cara operations, which is at the trough on this one, is number 13 in the top 30 corporate contributors to the Conservative Party. The least they gave in terms of money was $26,000 over the last two years.

But what the public would really be surprised to learn would be that you don't confine it just to your private sector friends, that you and cabinet ministers in your government actually go out there and solicit funds from school boards, from hospitals, ambulance services, municipalities, universities and colleges. In other words, it's like this: This government provides some funding to hospitals and municipalities and then they say to the hospital and municipality, "If you want more funding, you'd better show up at the Conservative fundraiser and you'd better write the cheque."

Minister, do you think it's appropriate that you and your cabinet colleagues not only, on the one hand, control the funding of hospitals and school boards, but on the other hand take political contributions from them?

Hon Mr Hodgson: In regard to the specific innuendo and allegations here, it's my understanding that the Deputy Minister of Economic Development, Trade and Tourism has had his officials fully involved in the selection process, and he has indicated that the process conformed with and adhered to all government guidelines. It is also my understanding that the deputy minister has indicated that the preferred provider's proposal was absolutely in the best interests of the taxpayers in every respect.

Mr Hampton: My first question was about a Conservative government hack who believes that if he's in so many conflicts of interest, then he's so conflicted that it's not really a conflict of interest. I didn't get an answer there.

The next part of this is that I've got a list here of municipalities, hospitals and ambulance associations that have all been making contributions to the Conservative Party and Conservative cabinet ministers. My point is this: You control the funding to these people. You're the government that has been saying to hospitals, "We're going to cut your funding." Now we find that Brock University, for example, has been contributing $1,600; Cambrian College of applied arts, $233; Niagara College of applied arts, $2,518; Metro Patient Transfer Services, $1,600; Scarborough General Hospital, $1,067. These are all contributions from public bodies.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Question.

Mr Hampton: Is this appropriate, Minister, that public bodies - school boards, hospitals, colleges - should be contributing money to Conservative Party candidates, Conservative cabinet ministers -

The Speaker: Thank you. Minister?

Hon Mr Hodgson: I'll repeat it again for the member if he didn't think he got an answer: It is my understanding that the board chair declared his conflict and did not vote and did not comment on the selection of the preferred proponent.

In answer to his other statement, that colleges and some hospitals and others made contributions to the Conservative Party, I would remind him that political contributions are made to all parties by organizations of all types, of their own accord. So if they're saying they agree with the policies of our government and they want to see that continue, to build on the success we've seen in this province for the last four years and to make sure we stay on the right track, I think that's fine.

SERVICES FOR THE DISABLED

Mr Michael Gravelle (Port Arthur): I have a question for the Minister of Community and Social Services. Minister, I'm sure you remember my constituent Veronica Manuel, who's been struggling to keep her multi-disabled son, Dylan, at home. She wants him there because she loves him dearly and she truly believes that it is there that he'll continue to be cared for in a loving way. However, Ms Manuel has been faced with horrendous roadblocks by this government in her attempts to keep him at home and she's become worn down by the incredible inflexibility shown by this government.

But now another problem has emerged which may force Veronica to throw in the towel. Ms Manuel recently found work as a special education support worker. She was able to do this because Dylan spends the day in a multi-needs school in Thunder Bay. The problem is that Olsten Health Services, the private nursing service that visits Dylan at his school, say they will no longer provide the care he needs to stay at school.

Minister, there's no reason for them to deny him this care. Neither the school nor the CCAC can understand their refusal. My question to you is, will you intervene so that Dylan can receive the care he needs and enable Veronica to keep her beloved son at home?

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Community and Social Services): I'll refer this question to the Minister of Long-Term Care.

Hon Cameron Jackson (Minister of Long-Term Care, minister responsible for seniors): I'd like to thank the honourable member opposite for his question. I'd like to inform the members of the House that at all times it is important and necessary to protect the privacy rights of this individual. Therefore, I cannot comment directly -

Interjection.

Hon Mr Jackson: The former leader of the Liberal Party implies that there is no such privacy law to protect the families.

The point I wish to share with the House is simply - first of all, I want to assure this House that under no circumstances is an agency allowed to withdraw services. Those decisions are made by community care access centres, all 43 in the province.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Answer.

Hon Mr Jackson: Second, I want to assure all members of this House that there is a range of options which this government has pulled together to allow persons with disabilities -

The Speaker: Supplementary.

Mr Gravelle: The Minister of Community and Social Services should be ashamed. She should have answered it. She met with Veronica about a year ago and did nothing.

The real question here is, how can this be allowed to happen? How can a company obligated to provide the service deny it to Veronica and Dylan? You just wash your hands of responsibility once the contract is signed? Is this what privatization means?

Veronica does not want to give Dylan up to the children's aid society or anyone else, but she's exhausted, demoralized and simply worn out from all the battles she's had to fight. You and the Minister of Health and the Minister of Long-Term Care, all of you, need to accept responsibility for what will happen if Dylan cannot stay at school.

Minister, my question to you, again, is - and I pray you'll accept your responsibility here - will you guarantee that Dylan's needs will be met at school, and will you at least speak to Ms Manuel personally to let her know she'll continue to receive this service? It's the least you can do. The CCAC says there's no reason to refuse this service. That answer will not do.

Hon Mr Jackson: I want to make it very clear one more time to the member opposite that the community care access centres are prescribed under legislation in order to ensure that these services are in place. The province of Ontario -

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. Minister?

Hon Mr Jackson: The services that families who have a disabled child in care receive is a basket of services provided from a series of ministries. This is very well known to the member opposite. The community care access centre provides home care, provides in-school service support. The Ministry of Community and Social Services provides additional support. The fact of the matter is that even in this province we allow individuals to receive the direct funding -

Interjection.

Hon Mr Jackson: The member opposite would like to learn something about -

Interjection.

Hon Mr Jackson: Mr Speaker, if he does not want the answer to this question I am endeavouring to share with him - this is an important issue and his level of understanding should be enhanced about this important case.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Minister?

Hon Mr Jackson: No government in Canada has a program which directly compensates a family member for the care of a child. That does not exist in our country. We do have direct funding to individuals with disabilities once they achieve their 16th birthday. That is a program our government has implemented. We will continue to review this file and many other of these important cases that are challenging families who are working with disabled children.

FOREST MANAGEMENT

We're also told that the MNR is directing forestry companies now to use the guidelines for their harvesting purposes, even though your ministry is refusing to release the document to the public.

Will you table these guidelines in the House today and will you confirm that your staff is indeed directing forestry companies to break the law by exceeding the clear-cut limits which are in place today?

Hon John Snobelen (Minister of Natural Resources): I thank the member opposite for the question. I can assure you that my ministry is not encouraging anyone to break the law in the province of Ontario.

Ms Martel: We know that planners for forestry companies have been told by MNR staff not to release the document to members of the public who are interested in forest management planning at the local level. We also know that several MNR regional directors have advised that this document cannot be released to the public until after the election. It appears that the clear-cut guidelines were created solely to buy the support of the forestry companies for your Lands for Life process. If that's true.

Minister, then it means you've cut a sweetheart deal with the forestry companies, you're proposing to break the law to allow huge and illegal clear-cuts, and you're going to do that all at the expense of those of us who live in northern Ontario. Can you confirm, do the guidelines exist? Will you table them? And why are you prepared to break the law on clear-cuts in Ontario?

Hon Mr Snobelen: Let me assure the member opposite that we have absolutely no intention of breaking the law. I am sure the ministry would never counsel anyone to break the law. I believe her concerns are without substance.

I can say that we do have a new forestry accord, which you've mentioned. We do have a new agreement, which you've mentioned, that creates 378 new parks and protected areas in the province, something like six million acres now protected for future generations that weren't before.

Although there have been concerns expressed, I note that Tim Gray said this on the weekend:

"New Forest Accord Gives Public a Voice.... Yes, the Ontario forest industry is powerful, but for the first time the public is getting a better shot at having a meaningful say in our forest's future because of the forest accord," because of this government.

SOCIAL ASSISTANCE

Mr Trevor Pettit (Hamilton Mountain): My question is for the Minister of Community and Social Services. I understand the number of people on social assistance in Hamilton-Wentworth has declined. Would you please tell the House and my constituents high atop Hamilton Mountain how much of a decline there has been and how much this has saved the taxpayer?

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Community and Social Services): I'd be very pleased to answer the member's question, and I thank him for it.

I had the privilege of meeting with the Hamilton-Wentworth folks not too long ago, to meet one of the community agencies that have been successfully providing community placements for people on social assistance so they can get opportunities to become employed again. We have in Hamilton-Wentworth a wonderful record. They've done a superb job. There has been a 36% decline in the number of people who have been trapped on welfare in this region, which is clearly a tribute not only to the efforts of the regional staff but to our workfare program and to the economic growth in that region. That has saved $86 million for taxpayers there. Again, it's a win-win story all around.

It's very consistent with what we're seeing across the province as Ontario Works, our mandatory work-for-welfare program, has rolled out across the province. We have approximately 374,000 fewer people on welfare today than we did four years ago. We know that the majority of those individuals have left for jobs, and not just any jobs. They have left for jobs that are full-time and pay more than -

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Supplementary.

Mr Pettit: That's great news, and it's certainly beneficial for the taxpayers of Hamilton-Wentworth and the province. Minister, can you please tell us of other programs that the government has implemented that will help even more people move off welfare?

Hon Mrs Ecker: We've had great success in getting folks from welfare into jobs to date. We've had about 12 people an hour leaving the welfare rolls.

As we have people with additional barriers to employment who need more help, we have our LEAP program, which is a program for teen parents on welfare that gives them additional supports and mandatory rules to keep them in school and to give them skills to be better parents.

In our Blueprint document, which is our vision for Ontario that we will be putting out to the people, we have talked about having even further programs; for example, remedial education for those who have literacy or basic skill problems with reading or math, and also for those with drug addiction problems. That is another barrier to employment, and we will be dealing with that through special mandatory addiction programs.

Our goal is to get people off welfare and into paid jobs. We've had great success to date. We know we need to do an even better job and we're prepared to do that, unlike the opposition parties, which fought us every step of the way.

EDUCATION FINANCING

Mrs Lyn McLeod (Fort William): My question is for the Minister of Education. The parents of children attending Gorham and Ware school in the Thunder Bay district have been given a rather incredible challenge. They've been told that they have a month to find a community solution to avoid having 50 students from their rural school bused into the city to fill up vacant spaces in the downtown core.

This is not a school being closed; it is a school community being divided. It is a direct result of your rigid and inflexible funding formula that demands that all vacant spaces anywhere in a school district, even one as large as the district served by the Lakehead Board of Education, have to be filled before there is any funding given for new pupil spaces.

Minister, I ask you today, what would you advise these parents? Would they agree, do you think, to having some of their children bused into the city's schools out of their own community, or would you have a better alternative to suggest to them that would be a community solution?

Hon David Johnson (Minister of Education and Training): As in all cases of this nature where school boards have authorities and have responsibilities to make decisions within their communities, I would advise the parents and the school council members, for example, but all members of the community, to work with the local officials, the school board elected trustees, the staff at the school board, to make the best possible decision for the children. That's really what the bottom line is: making the best decision for education in all of our communities, whether it's Thunder Bay or anywhere else in the province.

Communities across Ontario are working with each other to ensure not only the best quality education in terms of the curriculum etc, but in terms of accommodation, and I would suggest that the parents do that in Thunder Bay.

Mrs McLeod: You know full well that the board of education in the Lakehead has no alternative at all. They are already closing schools in the city. They can't close them fast enough to fill up all of the spaces so that they will ever get any new money to put an addition on a rural school that's bursting at the seams.

The problem with this school is that those children are in a portable that has mould. The children have to be moved, and you're not providing any money to fix the problem of mouldy portables either, so the board has no alternative to keep the children in that school. The parents of Gorham and Ware school are considering an alternative. They are considering building their own addition, doing the work themselves to make sure their school can house all of the children in their community.

Minister, you, because of your formula, are absolutely refusing any other alternative to be considered, so I ask you: Will you scrap the formula? Will you give the Lakehead board and other boards the flexibility and the money they need to be able to keep children in their community school so that this school doesn't have to be split up? Or do you think the parents should build their own school?

Hon David Johnson: To the Lakehead District School Board, and I guess that's the board in question, the ministry has provided almost $100 million this year for various purposes, including over $1.5 million for school renewal to deal with situations within the schools that need to be attended to in maintenance repair activities.

School boards have various options in terms of funding additions or new schools. Our funding formula will fund 200 new schools in Ontario over the next couple of years, and that is unprecedented in the province of Ontario through Liberals years, through NDP years, over the last many years. We are endeavouring to be as fair as possible through the funding formula for all the needs of all the students in Ontario.

ONTARIO HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION

Mr Peter Kormos (Welland-Thorold): I have a question to the Minister of Citizenship. Last week, as she knows, the Ombudsman released her final report on the timeliness, or non-timeliness, of the Ontario Human Rights Commission's investigative process. That report was a damning indictment. The Ombudsman found not only that the problem is worsening, but that your cuts, all to finance the tax giveaway for your wealthy friends, have seriously undermined the enforcement of human rights in Ontario.

Now we've learned that the support staff in Ontario Human Rights Commission regional offices have received pre-notice of layoff. You are eliminating all the support positions outside of Toronto and effectively closing those offices to the public.

Minister, how is firing support staff going to make things run smoother or any faster?

Hon Isabel Bassett (Minister of Citizenship, Culture and Recreation): First of all, I want to make it clear that this government, since we took office, has maintained the $11.2-million budget of the Ontario Human Rights Commission. We say and we believe that if human rights are to be preserved and protected in Ontario, we must have an efficient system for managing Human Rights Code complaints. It is fundamental.

That said, in order to keep abreast of the times - after all, I say to the honourable member opposite, we are in 1999, approaching the millennium - we must keep updated. To that end, we have taken over a system that was outdated in many ways in terms of its lack of computerized records, and we now have a centralized, one-window service for inquiry, referral and intake -

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Answer.

Hon Ms Bassett: - and a highly successful mediation service that has speeded up complaints.

To that extent, we have had to look at some of the offices -

The Speaker: Supplementary.

Mr Kormos: Minister, this sounds oh so much like your colleague the Attorney General when he was trying to defend his gross mismanagement, his negligent mishandling of the family support plan. Please don't leave here with the same blemish that he will.

Don't tell us about your support for the commission. The Ombudsman made it very clear: Your cuts mean more and more people won't bother going to the commission, because they're not going to be serviced. These are people who are facing discrimination in this province. In communities like Timmins, London, Hamilton and Thunder Bay, if a person goes to their local Human Rights Commission office to get some advice or make a complaint, they get confronted by a locked door, and they already have to wait over half an hour. Try calling the number, please, to speak to someone at your 1-800 number.

Once again, we saw what happened when your government shut down regional offices for the family support plan. It created chaos and misery for thousands of people. When are you going to stand up for human rights in this province and stop the slashing of this essential service in our communities?

Hon Ms Bassett: We are standing up for human rights in this province. When people lodge a complaint today, compared to when you were in office, I might say, (1) 50% of all new cases that are closed are resolved by mediation; (2) 70% of complaints going to mediation are resolved quickly, usually within six months of the complaint being filed, and that's a lot better, I can say to the member opposite, than happened in your day; (3) 60% of all complaints filed are resolved within six months; and (4) for the third year in a row, more complaints were resolved than were filed. In other words, we are digging into the backlog that I inherited when I became minister.

Thank you for the question so I can set the record straight.

TAXATION

Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Simcoe Centre): My question is for the Chair of Management Board. I spent the weekend in my riding consulting with many constituents.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon Chris Stockwell): Member for Simcoe Centre.

Mr Tascona: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

It seems that everywhere you go these days people are fed up with the amount of taxes they pay each year to government. The feedback I received came from many diverse sources: small business owners, middle-class families and single mothers with young kids, just to name a few. Their call is universal: They appreciate the benefit they received from our 30% cut to provincial income tax and they want to see more.

I was happy to inform my constituents that our party's platform, Blueprint, contains good news on the tax-cut front for many hard-working Ontarians.

Can you provide my constituents with detail on the proposed tax cuts?

Hon Chris Hodgson (Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet, Minister of Northern Development and Mines): It's a very good question and very relevant.

The Mike Harris government's track record on tax cuts is very clear, as you and maybe some of your constituents are aware: 69 tax cuts in four years, including a 30% personal income tax cut six months ahead of schedule. As you will recall, two thirds of the personal income tax cut has gone to the low- and middle-income earners with annual incomes between $25,000 and $75,000. The lowest-income earners received a tax break of just under 50%, and 140,000 more low-income earners now pay no income tax at all. That's great news for Ontario.

Our tax cuts have resulted in the creation of 540,000 net new jobs in just four short years, ahead of

schedule to meet our goal of 725,000 over five years.

Blueprint: Mike Harris' Plan to Keep Ontario on the Right Track offers even further tax relief to grow our economy, to create more wealth to put into services that the Ontarian people deserve and need, like health care and education. It's only through tax cuts that create a strong economy that you'll have the dollars to provide for those priority services.

The Speaker: Supplementary.

Mr Tascona: I think you'll agree that it's clear that our Premier, Mike Harris, is firmly committed to continuing to lower Ontarians' tax burden. It takes strong leadership to stand up to the special interests and cut taxes to grow our economy and create jobs. It's equally clear that Dalton McGuinty is a weak leader who lacks the strength to put the needs of middle-class Ontarians ahead of the special interests, ahead of the union bosses. Can you tell me what Dalton McGuinty's position on tax is?

Hon Mr Hodgson: Another good question. I think it's pretty clear that our Blueprint to keep Ontario on the right track, to build on the success of the last four years, recognizes, along with just common sense, that the tax cuts have created a strong economy and create the growth needed to reinvest and to put more emphasis and dollars into health care and education.

We know quite clearly what the NDP's position is. The NDP, to their credit, have been quite honest and forthcoming. They believe, and they're quite clear about it, in higher taxes. They've made that abundantly clear.

The question you're asking is, what is the Liberal position on this? I think if you take a look at the quotes of the Liberal leader, he said that this province can't handle more tax cuts. That was in the Toronto Sun, April 30. "I'm not in favour of a tax break." Another quote: "I wouldn't give you a tax cut."

I think the bottom line is, the Blueprint that Mike Harris is offering Ontarians to keep them on the right track and build on the success of the last four years offers a 20% personal income tax reduction combined with -

The Speaker: New question.

DOCTORS' SERVICES

Mr Dominic Agostino (Hamilton East): My question is to the Minister of Health. We have a serious situation in Hamilton in regard to waiting lists for cataract surgery and a shortage of facilities and physicians to perform them. There are currently 10 physicians who perform an average of 40 surgeries a week. Right now there's a waiting list of about 2,000 people and an average waiting time of about 12 months in Hamilton-Wentworth for cataract surgery. You've moved and made the political decision to address the problem in Burlington because of pressure, obviously, from your minister or colleague there.

You have addressed that to some degree. Clearly, the same level of political influence is not there in Hamilton with the Tory backbenchers, because Hamilton has been ignored.

We're talking about 2,000 people, 12 months, many seniors in a community next door and you have failed to act. A simple question: Do you believe it's acceptable today in Ontario, under your government's policies and cuts, that senior citizens have to wait up to 12 months for cataract surgery and 2,000 people are currently on this waiting list?

Hon Elizabeth Witmer (Minister of Health): I'll pass that to the minister.

Hon Cameron Jackson (Minister of Long-Term Care, minister responsible for seniors): I want to advise the member opposite that this government has been working very hard to expand access to new services. It's interesting that the member from Hamilton is now standing on his feet trying to explain away the fact that it was his political party that refused to go after the federal government to repatriate the $2.8 million they clawed back. It was Mike Harris and this Minister of Health who said we were going to put the additional $900 million directly towards front-line surgery.

I want to advise the member opposite that this government has worked actively with the OMA to improve access to cataract surgeries by making sure that we have enough ophthalmologists who are moving to underserviced areas. This government has already put in place an opportunity for them to rise above their current cap in order that they can perform more surgeries. All these have been put in place to improve access to cataract surgery, not only in our region but across Ontario.

Mr Agostino: I'm surprised that the Premier announced a cabinet shuffle. We missed it, because I asked the question of the Minister of Health about eye surgery and she passed it on to the junior minister of health. I don't understand that.

Minister, again, let's go back to this: There was a political decision made to give special services and special consideration to Burlington. It was a political decision there with a waiting list. Then the Minister of Health ducks the question and turns it over to her colleague, who made an announcement on her behalf.

I want to go back to you, Minister. You are the Minister of Health. Last time I checked, cataract surgery and those types of services in hospitals fall under your jurisdiction, unless you've given that up to the other minister.

Let me go back to you again. There is a long waiting list: 2,000 people, 12 months. You've ignored it. You've done nothing about it. Clearly, political dealing has allowed Burlington to be given special consideration; Hamilton has not. You have treated the people of Hamilton as second-class citizens. You've ignored the needs of our seniors. You've ignored the needs of 2,000 people, who are waiting up to 12 months.

Again I want to ask you, since you are the minister and make those decisions, do you believe it's acceptable today that people have to wait 12 months for cataract surgery because of the lack of space, operating rooms and ophthalmologists in Hamilton?

Hon Mr Jackson: I'm surprised the member opposite is unaware that this province has put in place a program to deal with underserviced physician services. There is a process in which there is an application. In this instance, ophthalmologists from Halton region have made an application because there are insufficient numbers of physicians performing this important surgery. The fact that there is no application from Hamilton, to our knowledge, is the issue. The member opposite is trying to drive a wedge between the two communities.

The fact is that we have very good, capable, competent ophthalmologists operating in Hamilton and in Halton region. The truth is that we don't have enough of them. This government has moved to work co-operatively with the OMA in order to address the issues of raising the cap. We've moved co-operatively to deal with underserviced areas. The announcement you've referred to is no announcement at all. The government is processing that application, under appeal, and we're prepared to look at any opportunity we can to improve access to cataract surgery for seniors, not only in this region but any region in the province.

NATIVE FORESTRY ISSUES

Mr Howard Hampton (Rainy River): My question is for the Minister of Natural Resources. The minister will know that the community of Grassy Narrows, which is a First Nation in northwestern Ontario, has had some serious differences with your ministry and some serious differences with Abitibi-Consolidated forest products company. Abitibi-Consolidated wants to harvest the forest very close to the First Nation reserve boundary and within the First Nation's traditional territory. Members of the community have demonstrated publicly against this. They have written to you. The chief has written to you.

They have asked you to intervene. They've asked you to meet with Abitibi-Consolidated and to act on their behalf to get Abitibi-Consolidated to move off of their proposed harvesting plan.

You have a responsibility to try to ensure that not only forest companies are able to operate but that other interests and other values are also protected. What are you prepared to do to assist this First Nation with the problem that has arisen?

Hon John Snobelen (Minister of Natural Resources): As the leader of the third party has indicated, the law is very clear on this in that certainly obligations to the First Nations and treaties have to be adhered to inside of these planning scenarios, and the companies which are involved in sustainable forest licences have to work, by law, with the First Nations and come to agreements. I'm sure that's what will happen in this case.

Mr Hampton: The fact of the matter is that members of the community have had to launch public protests. The fact of the matter is that they have written to you to try to get you to respond; you failed to do that. They have tried a number of avenues to get your attention and the attention of your officials, and they have tried a number of means to get the attention of Abitibi-Consolidated.

My question was, what are you prepared to do to not only protect the interests of the forest company but also to protect the trapping interests, the wildlife interests, the interests of this First Nations community? Is it going to take added protests? Is it going to take further demonstrations? Will it take the kind of event that happened at Aroland First Nation with respect to Buchanan Forest Products to get you to observe and to assume some responsibility for the other issues which also fall under the mandate of the Ministry of Natural Resources? What are you going to do in this instance, or is it going to take another protest, another demonstration such as Aroland?

Hon Mr Snobelen: The leader of the third party is perhaps uniquely aware of some of these disagreements that happen from time to time during sustainable forest licences. I think he would be aware of that. I believe he's aware of the fact that both the First Nation communities and the forest companies have a reputation for being able to solve these issues, being able to resolve these issues inside of the law, which is as prescribed.

I can tell the member opposite that we have, with the new forest accord, a new opportunity to bridge the needs of First Nations communities, the needs of the forest industry, the needs of the hunting and fishing communities and the needs of the public to make sure our natural resources are protected in the future.

This is a unique opportunity made possible by a very historic accord between these very diverse communities. We now have the opportunity to do that in the future, and I'm proud of that.

WINE INDUSTRY

Mr Bart Maves (Niagara Falls): My question is for the Minister of Consumer and Commercial Relations. The economy in Ontario has undergone a renaissance under our government's term in office, with the creation of 540,000 net new jobs and 400,000 people off dependency and welfare. I'm proud to say that my region in Niagara has benefited greatly from this renaissance in this government's term in office. We've had a 50% reduction in our welfare load in our area. Our unemployment rate was 15.3% in 1993; it's down to 6.6%, leading Ontario and I'm very proud of that.

One of the areas that has helped very much in this job creation in our region is the wine industry. Last Thursday the House passed the Vintners Quality Alliance Act which you had reintroduced on the previous Monday. Minister, can you tell the House how this act will help the wine industry even more?

Hon David H. Tsubouchi (Minister of Consumer and Commercial Relations): To the credit of the Legislature, we passed the VQA legislation last week. This is a tool the wine industry very sorely needed to be competitive. As people know, the economic union in Europe has basically tried to block Ontario wines from access to the European markets. I suppose, in a way, that's a credit to our industry here, because if our wines didn't have the fine quality they did, I don't believe the European nations would be concerned at all about the competitiveness of the Ontario wine industry.

As you probably know, it's not simply our icewines that are at the top of the world scale right now, but also we're winning gold medallions at places like Vinexpo in France, which is like the Olympics of wine; in Italy for our other wines as well.

This is a very valuable tool that they needed. As we all know, the European nations are throwing up all kinds of artificial barriers to keep wines out of Europe. This is one of them, this is the main one, and I really believe that because of my wine caucus who are heavily involved with this - Tim Hudak, Bart Maves, Tom Froese, Frank Sheehan and Jack Carroll - the work they've done with the wine industry has been an essential move for us to do this.

Mr Maves: Thank you very much, Minister. That is much appreciated. In the face of the lack of any kind of help from the federal Liberal government in trying to get our wines access into those foreign markets, the Ontario government has stepped in and taken this very wise and forward-looking step.

Another issue that we fought very hard for - myself, and as you mentioned in the wine caucus, Tom Froese, Tim Hudak and Frank Sheehan - for a little while now is the issue of allowing our wineries direct delivery to Ontario restaurants and bars. Greatly appreciated: You were in Niagara on Friday to announce that for the province of Ontario. I know it was very well received from the vintners and the grape growers of our region. Could you also explain how this will affect the wine industry in the province?

Hon Mr Tsubouchi: I thank the member for Niagara Falls for the question. As an example of some of the old policies that have been in place for a number of years, this one goes back past 10 years ago. Essentially it charged the cost to the wine industry for service provided. This was flagged by Frank Sheehan and the Red Tape Commission and was highly supported by the wine area caucus. If this can be considered a tax, I guess this is the number 70 tax this government has cut, which is very important.

Let not me talk about this; this is what the industry is talking about. The grape growers indicated that this policy will create 200 more jobs in the industry. Linda Franklin of the Wine Council of Ontario estimates that Ontario wineries will grow from about the current number right now, 30 wineries, to over 200 wineries, a great boost for the Niagara region. Len Pennachetti of Cave Spring Cellars said, and I'll close with this, "This government has done more for the wine industry in one day than any previous government during their entire term."

PETITIONS

GASOLINE PRICES

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): This petition reads as follows:

"Whereas the major oil companies in Ontario have had a free rein to gouge consumers by raising prices together at the same time and by as much as 30 cents per gallon; and

"Whereas the Conservative government of Mike Harris has taken no meaningful actions to protect consumers from the practice of rising retail gas prices immediately before long weekends; and

"Whereas the Premier has refused to call the captains of the oil industry to account for uncompetitive pricing practices; and

"Whereas the provincial government has within its power and jurisdiction the power to take action against uncompetitive pricing policies by the big oil companies;

"Be it therefore resolved that the members of the Legislative Assembly support and pass quickly the predatory pricing bill introduced by the MPP for St Catharines to ensure that independent retailers are not driven out of business by the pricing practices of the major oil companies."

I affix my signature, as I'm in full agreement.

FOREST INDUSTRY

Mr Len Wood (Cochrane North): I have a petition here addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario in regard to the employment of Quebec residents in the company's woodlands department to transport our wood resources to the province of Quebec. The company's five-year plan is to ship 50% of its wood limit to Quebec in exchange for our wood resources. More employment will be created in the province of Quebec through the process of making finished products and transporting wood chips back to the company in Ontario, Abitibi-Consolidated."

This petition is signed by over 300 working men and women in the towns of Iroquois Falls, Timmins, Porquis Junction and throughout the north. I affix my signature to the petition.

EDUCATION FUNDING

Mr John O'Toole (Durham East): In the last few weeks I've been visiting a number of schools in my riding. We have an excellent education system in Ontario, but it came to my attention, when talking with Principal George Petrusma of Knox Christian School, and Fred Spoelstre from Durham Christian High School - they presented this petition to me and I'm pleased to present it:

"Whereas this government has undertaken to reform the system of education funding to ensure fair funding for Ontario's children; and

"Whereas the Supreme Court of Canada has stated that, `The province could, if it so chose, pass legislation extending funding to denominational schools other than Roman Catholic schools without infringing the rights guaranteed to Roman Catholic separate schools'; and

"Whereas providing our children with an excellent education consistent with our cultural and religious beliefs is a necessity and not a matter of preference; and

"Whereas independent schools successfully educate children across the entire spectrum of learning abilities and special needs; and

"Whereas all children of taxpaying Ontario parents deserve to have funding distributed in a manner that does not discriminate against those not using the public/Catholic systems;

"Therefore we, the undersigned citizens and taxpayers of Ontario, respectfully request that the government take immediate steps to extend fair funding to all students of the province."

I'm pleased to support this petition.

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): I have a petition that reads as follows:

"Whereas essential public services have been deprived of government funding because the Conservative government of Mike Harris has diverted these funds to self-serving propaganda in the form of pamphlets delivered to homes, newspaper advertisements and radio and TV commercials;

"Whereas the Harris government advertising blitz is a blatant abuse of public office and a shameful waste of taxpayers' dollars;

"Whereas the Harris Conservatives ran on a platform of eliminating what it referred to as government waste and unnecessary expenditures while it squanders over $100 million on clearly partisan advertising;

"We, the undersigned, call upon the Conservative government and Mike Harris to immediately end their abuse of public office and terminate any further expenditure on political advertising."

I affix my signature, as I'm in full agreement with this petition.

RECYCLING

Ms Shelley Martel (Sudbury East): I have a petition. It reads as follows:

"Our family is concerned about the future of Ontario's environment. We know that one-way plastic pop bottles and aluminum cans waste non-renewable resources and energy, create pollution, and 1.5 billion of them end up in a landfill or as litter every year in Ontario.

"We know that recycling the other half a billion of them is costing us too much money, and that our blue box program is suffering as a result. To try and save their recycling programs, hundreds of municipalities, representing over 80% of Ontario's population, have passed council resolutions in support of a deposit return system for beverage containers. We also know that a deposit-return system with refillable bottles works well all over the world and is possible for Ontario. We did it before and we can do it again. We ask you to support legislation to implement refillable bottles and a deposit-return system for Ontario."

This petition has been done by the grades 4 and 5 students at C.R. Judd public school in Capreol, and I want to thank them for their interest in this important matter.

REMEMBRANCE DAY

Mr Joseph N. Tascona (Simcoe Centre): I have a petition to the Parliament of Ontario. It reads as follows:

"Whereas it is important to honour the courageous memory and sacrifices of Canada's war dead and of our veterans who fought in defence of our national rights and freedoms;

"Whereas there is a need for succeeding generations of young, school-age Canadians to learn more about the true meaning of Remembrance Day;

"Whereas Ontario veterans' associations have created excellent educational materials for use in Ontario schools on the meaning and significance of Remembrance Day;

"Whereas a special Remembrance Day curriculum for all grades in Ontario's education system, developed on the basis of the programs by Ontario veterans' associations and involving their direct participation, would increase awareness of, and appreciation for, Canada's wartime sacrifices in the hearts and minds of all Ontario citizens;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario as follows:

"That the provincial Ministry of Education and Training ensure that a suitable Remembrance Day learning unit be included in the curriculum of all grades of Ontario's education system."

There are hundreds of names on this petition brought forth by the Canadian Legion and also the army-navy. I'll affix my signature.

EDUCATION FUNDING

Mr Mike Colle (Oakwood): This petition for equity in education funding is from residents of the city of Toronto.

"Whereas the government of Ontario and all political parties represented in the Legislature strongly believe in a tolerant society in which religious and cultural differences are respected and services are provided without discrimination, as reflected in

section 1 of the Human Rights Code;

"Whereas this government has undertaken to reform the system of education funding to ensure `fair funding' for the education of Ontario's children;

"Whereas the Supreme Court of Canada has confirmed that the province of Ontario has the power to extend funding to denominational schools;

"Whereas five other provinces - BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Quebec - provide public funding to denominational schools;

"Whereas Catholic parents in Ontario enjoy the right to educate their children in an education system" run by their community "consistent with Catholic values and fully supported by their education tax dollars;

"Whereas our education tax dollars are already used to support special education programs based on ethnicity, sexual orientation, as well as French immersion programs, without posing a threat to mainstream public education;

"Whereas experience shows that a system that in effect forces religious and cultural minority parents to educate their children in a secular school system threatens the continuity of many of these communities;

"Whereas providing our children with an appropriate education in a context consistent with our cultural and religious values is a necessity and not a matter of preference;

"Whereas denominational schools successfully educate children who are overwhelmingly from low- and middle-income Canadian families and representing the entire spectrum of learning ability and special needs;

"Whereas all parents in Ontario paying taxes for education deserve to have that funding distributed in a manner that does not discriminate against those who for conscientious reasons are unable to use the secular public education system;

"Therefore we, the undersigned citizens and taxpayers of Ontario, respectfully request that the Legislature and the government take immediate steps to extend equitable funding to denominational schools."

PORNOGRAPHY

Mr Bob Wood (London South): I have a petition signed by 102 people from across the province.

"Whereas children are exposed to pornography in variety stores and video rental outlets;

"Whereas bylaws vary from city to city and have failed to protect minors from unwanted exposures to pornography;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"To enact legislation which will create uniform standards in Ontario to prevent minors from being exposed to pornography in retail establishments; prevent minors from entering establishments which rent or sell pornography; restrict the location of such establishments to non-residential areas."

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

Mrs Sandra Pupatello (Windsor-Sandwich): This is to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario.

"Whereas essential public services have been deprived of government funding because the Conservative government of Mike Harris has diverted these funds to self-serving political propaganda in the form of pamphlets delivered to homes, newspaper advertisements and radio and TV commercials;

"Whereas the Harris government advertising blitz is a blatant abuse of public office and a shameful waste of taxpayers' dollars;

"Whereas the Harris government ran on a platform of eliminating what it referred to as government waste and unnecessary expenditures while it squanders over $100 million on clearly partisan advertising;

"We, the undersigned, call upon the Conservative government of Mike Harris to immediately end their abuse of public office and terminate any further expenditure on political advertising."

I agree with this petition and I will be signing it.

FIRE IN HAMILTON

Mr David Christopherson (Hamilton Centre): I have a petition that reads as follows.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas two years ago Hamilton was the site of one of the worst environmental disasters in Ontario; and

"Whereas the Plastimet fire raged for three days in a residential area of Hamilton, releasing furans, large quantities of heavy metals and other dangerous chemicals, and consuming 400 tonnes of plastic, including polyvinyl chloride, PVC, which releases extremely toxic substances such as dioxins which are thought to cause cancer and disruptions to endocrine systems; and

"Whereas the city of Hamilton declared a state of emergency and a one-day evacuation of area residents because of fears about airborne toxins; and

"Whereas the government has cut funding to the Ministry of the Environment by more than 35%, and laid off over 750 people" who used to work to protect our environment; and

"Whereas we urgently need a public inquiry to find whether these cuts played a role in causing the Plastimet fire, whether the evacuation process was adequate, if residents and workers received adequate warning of the danger, are there ways to improve responses to these life-threatening fires, and how to prevent the nightmare of other Plastimet fires in all our communities; and

"Whereas for the past two years the Harris government has steadfastly refused to hold such a public inquiry or listen to municipalities, labour organizations, environmental groups and firefighter organizations who have all urged the government to hold a public inquiry; and

"Whereas the Harris government has allowed corporate polluters like Plastimet to operate with virtual impunity in a climate of deregulation, or industry self-regulation, along with cuts to monitoring and enforcement mechanisms;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to put the health and safety of the people of Hamilton before the interests of corporate polluters, and immediately hold a full public inquiry into the Plastimet fire."

I continue to support my constituents by adding my name to their petition.

REMEMBRANCE DAY

Mr Bill Grimmett (Muskoka-Georgian Bay): I have a petition that I'd like to present today. It has been signed by 58 people from my riding. Rather than read the petition, I will instead comply with the standing orders and just summarize it by saying that the people signing this have asked that a suitable Remembrance Day learning unit be included in the curriculum of all grades of Ontario's education system.

I submit this petition today.

GOVERNMENT ADVERTISING

Mr James J. Bradley (St Catharines): The petition reads as follows:

"Whereas the Minister of Education took more than $1 billion out of Ontario's education system at a time when there was increasing consensus on the importance of supporting our schools and classrooms; and

"Whereas per pupil funding in the province of Ontario now ranks below other jurisdictions, such as Georgia, Kentucky, Missouri and Nebraska; and

"Whereas the Mike Harris government has now embarked upon a new advertising campaign which will cost the taxpayers of Ontario millions of dollars; and

"Whereas the Mike Harris commercial does not constitute an important public announcement and instead is clearly an abuse of public funds, because," as is the case with all of these commercials, "they are self-serving political messages which are designed to influence public opinion; and

"Whereas the Mike Harris government could cancel the advertising campaign and use the millions of dollars which belong to the taxpayers of Ontario for the purchase of 40,000 textbooks," or thousands of educational employees to be hired, or on new equipment;

"Therefore we, the undersigned, call on the Mike Harris government to cancel its blatantly partisan, self-serving political advertising campaign and redirect the taxpayers' millions of dollars to classroom funding."

I affix my signature, as I'm in complete agreement with the sentiments expressed in this petition.

EDUCATION FUNDING

Mr Toni Skarica (Wentworth North): "Whereas this government has undertaken to reform the system of education funding to ensure fair funding for Ontario's children; and

"Whereas the Supreme Court of Canada has stated that the province could, if it so chose, pass legislation extending funding to denominational schools other than Roman Catholic schools without infringing the rights guaranteed to Roman Catholic separate schools; and

"Whereas providing our children with an excellent education consistent with our cultural and religious beliefs is a necessity and not a matter of preference; and

"Whereas independent schools successfully educate children across the entire spectrum of learning abilities and special needs; and

"Whereas all children of taxpaying Ontario parents deserve to have funding distributed in a manner that does not discriminate against those not using the public Catholic systems;

"Therefore we, the undersigned citizens and taxpayers of Ontario, respectfully request that the government take immediate steps to extend fair funding to all students of the province."

I have hundreds of petitions with thousands of signatures, and I affix my signature as well.

OPPOSITION DAY

TAXATION

Mr Howard Hampton (Rainy River): This is an opposition day motion:

That this House declares its opposition to the Mike Harris income tax cuts, which put $4.1 million a day into the pockets of the top 6% of Ontario taxpayers, who unfairly receive 25% of the tax cut, and urges that this money be reinvested immediately in hospitals, schools, colleges and universities, environmental protection, housing and other vital services.

The Deputy Speaker (Mr Bert Johnson): Mr Hampton moves opposition day number 1. I recognize the member for Rainy River.

Mr Hampton: The first thing I want to note is that, as the opposition motion was written, there was a typographical error. What was written was $1.4 million a day." It should be $4.1 million a day. That is in fact the amount of money that is taken out of hospitals, schools, colleges, universities and communities on a daily basis in order to fund the Harris government's tax cut for the most well-off 6% of people in this province. The reality is that when you sit down and do the math on this government's 30% tax cut, 6% of the people who are at the top of the income and wealth ladder receive over 25% of the money.

They receive $4.1 million a day, which is being cut from these very important health, education and community services. It works out to $1.5 billion a year.

Middle- and modest-income families, on the other hand, receive very little, if any, benefit from this income tax scheme. In fact, if you travel across the province and you talk to middle- and modest-income families and you say to them, "What did you get from the tax cut?" most of them look at you as if to say, "What tax cut?" Many others will guffaw and will say, "Well, whatever it was, it disappeared a long time ago." That's because, for lower-income families, there was no income tax cut.

There are frankly more and more user fees, copayment fees, administrative fees, tuition fees, property taxes and higher rent, so that anything they were supposed to receive out of this so-called tax cut has been more than overwhelmed by all of the new hidden taxes, all of the user fees, copayment fees, administrative fees, higher rents, what have you.

For middle-income families, it may be a wash in some cases; that is, what you put out in the new tuition fees, what you pay in the higher property taxes, what you pay in prescription medicine copayment fees might balance out with what you were supposed to get from the income tax cut.

But even there, if you're a family and you have two children, two young people, in college or university, you're left trying to figure out: "This is what I was supposed to get from the tax cut, but tuition fees have increased by more than $1,600 a year, so the tax cut would have to give me $3,200 a year just to pay the tuition fees," not to mention the increases in property taxes, not to mention all of the other copayment fees and user fees that have been placed on middle- and modest-income families by this government.

It's very clear when you sit down and you do the math of this, after this so-called tax cut, which is really a tax shuffle, is finished, lower-income families are paying more taxes than ever. Middle- and modest-income families might, if they're lucky, be in a balanced situation; that is, they got a little bit of a tax cut and now they're trying to figure out how to pay the tuition fees. I would suspect that most don't even get to the balanced situation; they're still paying more in taxes. It's only when you get into the highest income brackets that people actually got a tax cut.

I could recite for you some of the people who got a tax cut. For example, Frank Stronach, who has an income of about $25 million a year, gets a $1-million tax cut. Some of the bank and financial institution presidents and vice-presidents and chairpersons actually get tax cuts of even more than that from this government. This is overwhelmingly a tax scheme, a tax shuffle, designed to benefit the well-off at the expense of the rest of us in society.

The biggest cuts of all to finance this so-called income tax scheme have come from health care, from education, from the community services that the vast majority of people in this province need and have to have if they're going to be able to function productively and effectively in our society.

What is to be done in a scenario where the government has deliberately, intentionally, strategically, from their point of view, taken money from the essential services - the hospitals, the health care system, the elementary and secondary schools, the colleges, the universities, our communities. They've taken money from these very important institutions and transferred it to people who are well-off in the form of a tax cut. They've transferred it to people who frankly have enough wealth, who don't require any more.

I know what these folks over here, the Conservatives, are going to do. They're going to continue down that line. They're going to continue to underfund education, they're going to continue to underfund health care, they're going to continue to underfund colleges and universities, they're going to continue to underfund municipalities, they're going to continue to underfund environmental protection in order to transfer more wealth to those who are already well-off and those who don't need any income transfers. That's the direction they're going to pick.

My Liberal colleagues historically in this place have criticized the Harris government's tax cuts. They've said, "The money from these tax cuts is coming out of health, it's coming out of hospital budgets, it's coming out of school budgets, it's coming out of colleges, it's coming out of universities, it's coming from the poorest people in the province. Our Liberal counterparts have been quick to criticize the Harris tax cut and to say it's wrong, to admit it's wrong to take money from these vital health care services and education services and transfer it to people who are well-off.

They admit it's wrong, but then, when you listen closely, you discover that our Liberal counterparts won't do anything about it. They want to complain; they know it's wrong. But when it comes down to looking at what's actually happening, they're not going to do anything about it. They would institutionalize and continue to implement this scheme of tax cuts by the Harris government.

At the same moment, Liberals say they would reinvest in health care, they would reinvest in education, they would reinvest in communities. You don't have to be a wizard to understand that if you're going to continue to finance this scheme of income tax cuts, which cost, as I point out, $4.1 million a day just for the 6% at the top, there isn't any money left over for education, there isn't any money left over for schools, there isn't any money left over for hospitals, there isn't any money left over for the rest of the health care system. It doesn't work.

I take you back to the spring of 1995, when Mike Harris said to people - and I believe I've got his argument pretty clear - "I'm going to give you a 30% tax cut. There will be no cuts to health care. There will be no cuts to education. The money is going to come from somewhere over there." Voters believed that; people believed that.

The lesson of the last four years is that there was no "over there." The money to finance their so-called 30% income tax cut, the $6 billion a year, came directly out of hospitals, directly out of health care, directly out of education, directly out of our communities, directly from the poorest people in the province. There was no "over there." The lesson is that that money came out of those things we value the most: health care, education, our communities. That's what Mike Harris said, though: "A 30% tax cut. No cuts to health care; no cuts to education. The money will come from somewhere over there."

I want people to think very clearly about what Liberals are saying today. Liberals are saying: "A 30% tax cut. There will be money for health care, money for education, and the money's going to come from somewhere over there." Does that sound just a little bit familiar? It sounds to me like the same argument, the same agenda, the same direction that Mike Harris set in 1995. The words have been changed a little, the packaging has been changed a little, but it's the same agenda.

It would seem apparent to me that the income tax scheme that is responsible for taking over $2 billion a year out of health care, responsible for taking $1.5 billion out of elementary and secondary education, responsible for taking $750 million out of our colleges and universities, responsible for downloading over $700 million in costs on to municipalities, the same agenda that is responsible for that - and that's been very much the Mike Harris agenda - can't possibly restore this.

Simply rolling and repackaging that agenda that has cut health care and has cut education cannot possibly result in the re-funding, the restoration of health care, of education, of environmental protection, of the community services we all value and need.

We know where the Conservatives are coming from. The Conservatives are saying: "We're going to continue on this line. We'll continue to create an education deficit. We'll continue to create a deficit at the college and university level. We'll continue to create an environmental deficit. We'll continue to allow a health care deficit, a homeless deficit, a deficit at the municipal level to build up."

Their priority is to cut taxes for those of us who are most well-off and who need a tax cut the least. The problem we have is that Liberals want to complain about what the Harris government is doing but Liberals have already indicated they would do much the same thing. They would continue this regime of a 30% income tax cut no matter what the damage to education, no matter what the damage to health care.

New Democrats cannot abide by this. We simply cannot abide by a direction which is going to underinvest, underfund health care, underfund education, underfund our communities, underfund the protection of the environment. It's clear what the priorities of people in this province are. They want to have a good health care system. They want to have a good education system. They don't want to have colleges and universities that rank at the bottom in North America in terms of public funding. People want to see reinvestment.

We've heard the public. We are prepared to reinvest in those most important of our public services, those services which help to make us all productive, those services which are going to help position us to be even more productive in the so-called knowledge economy. How do we do it? We do it this way: Since the only people who got a tax cut are the 6% at the top who get 25% of the money - those are the only people who got a tax cut here; everyone else is paying the tuition fees, the user fees, the copayment fees, the higher property taxes - it seems only fair that we restore some balance to this.

So we make this commitment to people: New Democrats would roll back the top end of the Harris income tax cut. To the 6% at the top who get more than 25% of the money, we would say, "You too have a moral and a social responsibility to help us fund the health care system we need, the education system we all need, the community services we all need, and New Democrats are going to help you meet your moral and social responsibility."

What it means: We would roll back the income tax scheme for the 6% at the top who get 25% of the money. That would give us $1.5 billion a year to put back into health care, back into education, back into the community services we all need, back into the protection of the environment. Those are the things that are the priorities of people. They are the things that are going to contribute to our ongoing productivity, and New Democrats are committed to absolutely seeing this happen.

I just want to say a word about folks who say to you: "The money is over there. Don't worry, the money will be over here somewhere." I've heard some folks say, "We'll ask the federal government for more transfer funding." It's worth reviewing the federal transfer funding. The current federal government took $3 billion a year, on an annual basis, out of health care funding. The current federal government took $3 billion a year, on an annual basis, out of education funding. In the last budget they put back a little bit of the health care money; they put back a fraction of what they took out.

The fact of the matter is, they haven't put back what they originally took out; far from it. The fact of that matter is, on the education front they haven't put back any of the $3 billion they took out.

So saying that the federal government is somehow going to restore this funding I think has no foundation in reality. The federal government is guilty of some of the worst underfunding of our health and education institutions in this province and in this country. This business about "somewhere over there" just rings very, very hollow.

Let us just say another word about how serious this is. Most people in Ontario are probably proud of the college and university system that was created in this province after the end of the Second World War. A number of governments have helped to contribute to that. Conservative governments, albeit of a much different stripe from this Conservative government, made some strategic investments in colleges and universities. Liberal governments contributed. New Democratic governments contributed.

Most people in Ontario would be shocked today to know that Ontario now ranks dead last in Canada in terms of per capita funding for our college and university system. We rank last after Newfoundland, after poor provinces like Prince Edward Island, after smaller provinces like Nova Scotia or Manitoba or Saskatchewan - dead last in terms of per capita funding.

Not only that, but if we look at the North American context, there are only two states in all of the United States that fund their college and university system at a lower per capita level than Ontario. New Hampshire and Vermont are the only states that fund at a lower level, and there's no accident there; there's a reason for that. New Hampshire and Vermont have a relatively large number of private colleges and private universities. But in terms of all those states in the United States and all those provinces in Canada that rely on a public education system, we rank dead last.

We rank behind American states that have traditionally had a problem with literacy, states like Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, even Arkansas. It is a very shocking situation; even more shocking when you consider the fact that we now live in a knowledge economy.

Over and over, economists are telling us that it's not inexpensive natural resources which are going to create prosperity and help us be productive in the world ahead, it's not being close to this market or that market. Goods move around the world, natural resources are available in many corners of the world. It's not necessarily having your own pool of capital; capital now moves around the world. What determines, more and more, whether you're going to be a participant in this new knowledge economy is the knowledge, the skill, the ability of your people.

But the knowledge, the skill, the ability doesn't grow on trees. Knowledgeable, thoughtful, capable people have to have an investment made in them. They have to have an investment made in their education. But that's not happening. It's not happening under this government, it's not going to happen under this government, and any government that buys into this very unbalanced, unfair and, I would argue, unprincipled tax shuffle is not going to see it happen either.

If that tax scheme is going to be your foundation, if it's going to be your obsession, your fascination, there isn't going to be money left over for the health care investments, the education investments, the environmental protection investments, the community investments that are the foundation of being productive in that knowledge economy.

New Democrats say clearly, consistently, in all corners of the province, that education is where we must make the investment, health care is where we must make the investment, strong communities is where we must make the investment. We will roll back the top end of the Harris 30% income tax scheme, which benefits the 6% at the top with over 25% of the money. We will roll it back and we will make those investments in health, in education and in community that will provide the greatest benefit to the greatest number of people.

Mr Speaker, I'm aware that others here want to take

part in this debate. I thank you and other members for the opportunity to put this on the record and to begin what I believe will be the debate of the election campaign which is officially soon to begin. It will be the theme of the election campaign: Do Ontarians want tax cuts which come at the expense of a well-funded education system, a well-funded health care system, communities that work, environmental protection? Do Ontarians want that or do Ontarians want the reinvestment in hospitals, schools, colleges and universities and our communities and the protection of our environment which will make us more productive? We're very happy to kick off that debate here today.

The Deputy Speaker: Further debate?

Mr Rosario Marchese (Fort York): It's a pleasure to continue with the comments and the theme our leader has already addressed.

I want to refer to an

article that I read just a short while ago that speaks to this very issue. It says here: "During the Tory mandate up to December, the province has added 470,000 jobs. About 73,000 of them came before any tax cuts." Then it says: "Another 332,000 would have come if jobs were added no faster than in the rest of the country. That leaves 65,000 jobs to be debated." It asks, "Have the tax cuts made the big difference?" The comment he makes is: "The consensus among economists and financial analysts is no