\'OL. 3 ,, PRELIMINARY UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00p.m. MONDAY, ~~RCH 23, 1981 NO. 15 ' 'I

1-!arch 23,1981 Tape No. 547 AH-1 The House met at 3.00 p.m. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. ~~.SPEAKER (Simms): Order,please! ORAL QUESTIONS ~!R. SPEAKER: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. .. MR.STIRLING: Thank you ,:'lr. Speaker.I have a question for the Minister of Finance (Dr.Collins) dealing with the answersthat he gave me in the House the last day we sat, having to do with the Budget.

The Premier has released some information to the Institute of Chartered Accountants.Would the Minister of Finance indicate whether or not the Budget· will be brought down before the April lOth by-election? ~1R.SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. Dr.COLLINS: Mr. Speaker ,the last day I think I answered the question for the hon. the Leader of the Opposition and I said that about mid-week or thereabouts I hoped to be in a position to give a firm date and I am afraid that still stands. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker,a supplementary. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary. The hon. Leader of the Opposition . MR.STIRLING: Mr.

Speaker, the Premier in speaking to the Chartered Accountants Association indicated that the Department of Health budget was being cut back, I think, from $20 million to $30 million more than vvas requested. Would the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) confirm that figure? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Hinister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I have not seen that .. ~- ·~,.# quote described to the hon. Premier and ~:lOssibly it would be best if the hon. Leader of the Opposition directed that question to the Premier when he is available in the House. 'i j s J ..

:•larch 23,1981 Tape No. 547 AH-2 DR. COLLINS: At this point in time I think it would be inappropriate for me to mention anything that is in the Budget or will be in the Budget. i'lR. STIRLING: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) of the Opposition. ~!R. STIRLING: A supplementary. A supplementary. The hon. Leader Yes, Mr. Speaker, that is what I thought , it would be inappropriate for anyone to be discussing figures in the Budget certainly before a firm of chartered accountants or an association of chartered accountants.

Would the minister indicate whether or not the figure of $30 million cut in the education budget ~as a figure that has been discussed and agreed to? AP~ that was also a figure released by the Premier in speaking to the firm of chartered accountants. MR. SPEAKER: DR. COLLINS: The hon. Minister of Finance. Mr.Speaker, of course I am not in a position to say exactly where the hon. Leader of the Opposition got his information but my response to the last question applies to this one also.

I would just like to suggest that quite possibly the hon. the Premier mentioned certain ball park figures but I would doubt very, very much indeed whether he was dealing with any precise figures that will be in the Budget. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker. ~1R. SPEAKER: ~!R. STIRLING: The hon. Leader of the Opposition. A final supplementary.Do I understand from the Minister of Finance (Dr. Collins) then that the Budget has been prepared and the Premier would have access to the figures that are in the Budget? MR . SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance. 'i J j ·, .. ,

~1arch 23, 1981 'Tape 548 PK - 1 DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I am sure the han. Leader of the Opposition understands that the budgetary process is a fairly prolonged one and that as we get near the end of the process the hon. the Premier is directly involved. But the figures that go into the budget change from week to week, and towards the end aL~ost from day to day as various matters are considered ~nd various requests are one compared with the other and related to the revenues available to government.

So in answer to the question all I can say is that the Premier certainly does have current information regarding the budget available to him. But the budgetary process is not yet completed, and it is not finalized. The budget has not been finalized at this date. MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Simms): The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker , I have a question for the Minister of Health (Mr. House). The Minister of Health has indicated to the people in the Corne By Chance area that it is his recommendation that the Corne By Chance Hospital be closed when the Clarenville Hospital is opened.

Would the Minister of Health confirm that that is his understanding? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, a group of mayors from the area around Corne By Chance, and including Corne By Chance, met in my office and they asked me if there had been a decision and would the Corne By Chance Hospital be closing when the Clarenville Hospital came on stream. And I advised them that there had been no decision, government had made no decision as to whether the hospital would close or not. ·1 5 S 5 ., . .. . ..

'•fl March 23, 1981 Tape 548 PK - 2 MR. STIRLI~G: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Simms): A supplementary. The hon. Leader of the Opposition. MR . STIRLING: As I understand it,the people who attended that meeting were given a very specific reply by the Minister of Health (Mr. House) that it was the recommendation of his department -the political decision had not been made- but the recommendation of his department was that the Come By Chance Hospital would be closed when the Clarenville Hospital opened. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. MR. HOUSE: Mr.

Speaker, the members who came there told me that it was the recommendation of my department that it 1vould be closed. I did not tell them that it was a recommendation of the department. As a matter of fact, they were referring to a letter from a director of hospital services to a doctor in the Come By Chance area, who ~'rote sometime in January asking what would be the future. The fellow wrote back and said from his personal point of view that he would see the hospital phasing out as an in-patient facility.

And that was not the specific recommendation from the department at all, It 1vas a personal point of view because the specific recanrnendation had not been made and it is still not made. And besides that, they asked him for his point of view, and he said, 'I will give you my personal point of view,' '3ut, he said, 'that could change.' Of course, I can get a copy of that letter. MR. STIRLING: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker . '! J s 6 . .. ''I .. ... ..,

March 23, 1981 ~1R. SPEAKER (Simms): the Opposition. Tape No. 549 SD - l Supplementary, the hon. Leader of ~R. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, do I understand that the Minister of Health (Mr. House) is now saying that a responsible person in his department is given the authority to make personal comments? Is that person now still in the employ of the department and does he speak for the department? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health. MR. \<1. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, you do not go around just firing everybody who is asked for a personal opinion and gives a personal opinion.

As a matter of fact, the fellow is a very well respected member of the Department of Health and I see no reason in the world for saying anything to him about this particular thing. He was asked for a personal opinion and he gave it. MR. STIRLING: MR. SPEAKER : Leader of the Opposition. MR. STIRLING: Final supplementary, r1r. Speaker . Final supplementary, the hon. Would the Minister of Health indicate that if what the Premier says is true, that the Health Budget is going to be cut back by $30 million , will this affect the minister's plans for the building of the Clarenville Hospital?

And if that is so, would he indicate to the people of Corne By Chance what the position of the Department of Health is relative to the Corne By Chance Hospital~ MR. SPEAKER: MR. HOUSE: Th .e hon. the Minister of Health Mr. Speaker, the question~ in his

preamble takes into consideration a lot of 'ifs' and, of course, these are all rhetorical questions and, you know, I do not like answering these kinds of questions. The fact is we have made an announcement, we made an announcement earlier this yearr, again at a number of press conferences around the Province and again there was reference to it in the Throne 'ISS 7

)!arch 23 , 1981 '!'a,?e )lo . 5.;9 SD - 2 :-L~ . ~ous E : S;>eec:: Cebar.a ~~at :~e hcs?i~;! 1.;il1 go on . The plan thac · . .;e ouclinad, the ::ive year pla~ . will go on as we sc~eduled ic ,chat is ,of course , that th e hospital in ?o rt au:x aasq~es ·.vill be continuing on this year .. , and ~hat ;>l an~ ir;g :or Clarenville co~cin~e c~is year . '1 Xi::h res';)ac;:. -:c ;;-iv.:.nq ::he ?eo;>:c o: ::he Come 3y Chance an ~'iS'wer, : do no-: see any ::ecessi:::y :or giving an a."''Siver to a ;:>roblem thac .:.s going to come u;> :i ve yea rs co•vn the road . ~L~ .

S?S~~R (S"~s): ~1.R . :>lEA.=l.Y : ~he hon . ~e~er :or ~a?o.:.le . !·:.= . Speaker, : ~· .. ·a~=. co cc:ne back to che :-1ini st er of Fi:1ance (Dr . Col.!.ins ) i:~ conneccion ·.vi t!l the Budget . But just as a prea~le, ! ~~~t say i-: m~st be aw-:ul1y er..bar:::assinq to :.=:e ::li.."'liscers ::o !:ear ::::e ?:::ernie:.- ~~<e che se s~atements at ~u~:ic :cnccio ~ s ~i~hou~ prior consultation s •.dth his :niniste rs; they obviously co noc know \vhat is going on .

Cculc che ~i::is-:er of Fina::ce, because of t.."le :aceness o:: the 3ucget ~his year, .:.:1c:.cate whac the con st:.-uccion ~orkers can ex?ec~ i~ =~is ?rov:.~ce in the tva y o:: construc-::ion this year because, as 1:he !'!on . gencle~an knows , a late Budget ~eans that ~o ?lans can be made =or th e construc-::ion incuscry -::!'Ia:: effiolo v~ so many :>~ewfoundlance r s? Cou:.c t:-te ~on . c;:enclema:-. -:e2.1 ;;s tvhat they can expect in the con sc:::uction industry -::h:.s yea:.-? ~I :, !.J fJ ''I ..

March 23, 1981 Tape No. 550 EL - 1 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Minister of Fin- ance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I do not think that the time the Budget will come down will have any significant impact on the construction industry. I think the hon. member is probably referring mainly to road construction,and in that res­ pect I would think that the hon. the Minister of Transportation (C. Brett) could answer more precisely,but I do not anticipate that there will be any difficulty in putting in place the programme, the road construction programme that the department has in mind. MR. NEARY: HR.

SPEAKER: for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. member I wonder would the Minister of Transportation care to take the Minister of Finance (Dr. Coll­ ins) up en his invitation?

The question I asked was that be­ cause of the lateness of the Budget and because the construct­ ion industry has to prepare for the construction season and because workers, so many Newfoundlanders depend on the con­ struction of highways and public buildings and so forth for employment in order to get enough stamps to get their unem­ plo1~ent for the Winter, what can we expect in the construct­ ion industry this year? Will there be any contracts called and tenders called and contracts let before the Budget is brought down?

Can the minister identify the projects that will be undertaken in the construction industry this year? :~R. SPEAKER: portation. The hon. the Minister of Trans- 1 ~ c n J ..J ."j ' I '"I

:'-iarch 23, 1981 Tape No. 550 EL - 2 HR. BRETT: Hr. Speaker, that is something that has been of great concern to the Department of Trans- portation for a number of years,that we have not been able to call tenders and award contracts in the Winter or real early in the Spring. There is

an act - I do not know which one it is - which states that we cannot, in fact, call ten- ders and award tenders until such time as the money has been approved, that the Budget has been approved in the House. And it is a matter of great concern because as the '"I Department of Transportation we would very much like to know right no~ or we would have liked to have known a month or more ago,what money is available. And then our engineers could have all the planning done and the tenders out and have them let so that as soon as the frost went out of the ground we could start work. But unfortunately we cannot do that.

We have to wait until the Budget is brought in the House and approved by the House before we can even call ten- ders,and the end result - this happens year afte ~ year after year and we are not allmved to do anything else- you know, what it means is that it is up in June or July before we act- ually know who has the jobs and they start work, and that means that half the year is gone. So, 1-1e ~>·ould like ver y much, !1r.

Speaker, to know now or a month before now,what work is going to be done because if we did we could get more work done and ''I spend more money,because almost every year invariably we end up with money on our books that is not spent because the frost has come and the contractors cannot work, the snow has come, the work has to be carried over from year to year. So we would very much like to be able to do that but we are not per- mitted because the law will not permit it. HR. NEARY: A supplementary, Hr. Speaker. ... 'I ;J G ii

March 23, 1981 ~·! R. SP::AKER (Simms) : for LaPoile. HR. NEARY : Tape NO. 550 EL - 3 A supplementa .=y, the hon . member Mr. Speaker, I can hardly believe 'llhat I ju st heard !:=om the hon . gentleman , that money is left: oo the table . The ministe r is unable to spend the money . A~ HON . t1E1BER : (Inaudible ) SOl-iE HON . MEMBERS : :-1R . NEARY : Oh , oh! Yes, I would like to see that, :>lr . Speaker. And here you have contractors in this Province =eady to go bankrupt. ~l:R • HANCOCK : ~lR . NE A..~Y : Gone. ~~d they are going every day and all of ~em ~~11 go bankrupt unless - NR . )!ARSHALL : MR .

SPE.l\KER : A point of order, :1r. Speaker . Order, please! A point of order has been raised by the hon . the President of the Council . ·1 5 G 1 .. . ..

March 23, 1981 MR. SPEAKER (Si~~

s) MR. W. ~RSHALL: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER : Tape No. 551 DW - 1 The hon. President of the Council. The Question Period - Oh, oh! Order, please! A ~oint of order. MR. W. ~RSHALL: - is for the purpose of asking questions, Mr. Speaker. The hon. gentleman is capable of J asking incisive auestions; he is also capable of makina speeches as well. Right now he is making a speech. He could reserve his for the Address in Reply and get on to asking questions. ~~- SPEAKER: To the point of order,I had allowed some leeway because I had assumed the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) was giving a little bit of a

preamble, and I think it is tradition that we allow a little bit of a

preamble,but I must caution him not to get into debate and to ask his supplementary question. The hon. ~ember for LaPoile. "!R. S. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, in view of the fact that so many construction companies and businesses in this Province are on the brink of bankruptcy, in view of the fact that so many Newfoundlanders are being forced on welfare be­ cause of lack of work in the construction industry - SOME HON. MEJVI .BERS: Oh, oh! MR. S.

NEARY: - and being forced out of business because of lack of work in the construction industry,would the han. minister indicate to the House the number of projects, what kind of projects he is talking about, identify some of the pro4ects that are beina delayed until June or July which is teo late,as the hon. gentleman just indicated,for the construction season? Can the han. gentleman indicate to the House what kind of - could he identify some or these projects that are being delayed awaiting the Budget?And why can tender~ r0t be called pending the apDroval of the Budget in the House?

I mean,that seems silly to me that the hon. gentleman cannot call tenders 'I J u ~ ''1 ''I

~1arch 23, 1981 Tape No. 551 ow - 2 :I.<!R. S. NEARY: oending the - because the Budget is going to be approved anyway. The majority are on the government side of the House - ~R. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please! The hon. member is now debating . Could he please ask his question? ~R. S. NEARY: -the majority are over there. ~R .. SPEAKER: tion . The hon. Minister of Transoorta- ~R. C. BRETT: Mr. Speaker, the Act is the Finan- cial Administration Act which ~ill not permit us to call tenders until, in fact, the money is in place - MR. NEARY: Or ·award contracts. MR. \.. BRETT : Or at-~ard contracts. MR.

NEARY: Call tenders. MR. C. BRETT: Call tenders - well, what is the difference? You can call tenders, I mean you can call tenders anytime,but you cannot award the contract until the money is there. So you can call tenders in January but you cannot award the contract until the money has been approved by the House of Assembly. So calling the tenders is not going to im­ prove the situation.

So that is the simple answer to the first part of the question, that the Financial Admini­ stration Act will not permit us to call tenders and award co ·ntracts until such time as the money has been voted by the House of Assembly. And secondly, a list of contracts or a list of jobs, the answer to that is all jobs, you know, no matter - MR. NEARY: (Inaudible). M...~. C. BRETT: Just a minute now. ~lo matter what we have planned for next year, no matter what the govern­ ment has approved for next year or no matter what the govern- ·1 5 G l ''I ''I

~!arch 23, 1981 Tape No. 551 DW - 3 lv!? •• C. BR:t:TT: ment approves, what the Cabinet 2p~roves ~or next year,tenders cannot be called until such time as the monev has been approved by the House of Assembly . :'1"<. S. N:SA~Y: A suoolementary, Mr. Speaker. ·1 ;j o :. ' I

~~- March 23, 1981 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : hon. member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Tape No. 552 A supplementary, the I understand that, Mr. Speaker, that the government cannot award contracts, NM - 1 but at least the government could call tenders now, identify the work and have the bids in and have the contracts ready to be let when the budget goes through, and obviously the budget is going to go through because the majority are on that side of the House - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: - and they are going to force the budget through. Why cannot the minister call tenders now?

At least let the construction industry, and the construction workers know what they can look forward to this year and when the budget is approved,let the contract. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Transportation. MR. BRETT: Mr. Speaker, number one, I do not think we are allowed to call tenders. But number two, how can you call tenders until you know what money is approved? Now it would be very presumptuous of the government to call tenders - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR.

BRETT: - it would be very presumptuous of the government to call tenders for jobs when we did not know if the House was going to approve the money or not. And that is - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. BRETT: No. No. Come on now. There is no politics in that. How can I tomorrow instruct Mr. White to go out and call tenders- my Deputy Minister, Mr. White- to go out and call tenders on a job when I do not know how much money the Cabinet or the House, which has the final word, is going to approve: I mean there is no way. 'I 50 5 '·I '"I

March 23, 1981 MR. BRETT: MR. NEARY: MR. BRETT: Tape No. 552 NM - 2 We can suggest - How did you approve (inaudible). We can suggest to the Cabinet or to the House or whatever a certain number of dollars,but until such time as that has actually been approved then I cannot call public tenders. There is no way. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. BRETT: the hon. member for LaPoile. MR.

NEARY: A final supplementary, Is the hon. gentleman telling the House then that he does no~ know at this moment, he cannot identify the work that is going to be done this year, that he does not know at this moment what the government is going to do this year-and here it is the 23rd. of March - is that what the han. gentleman is saying? MR. SPEAKER: The han. Minister of Transportation. MR. BRETT: Yes, Mr. Speaker, that is right. That is absolutely right. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. NEARY: No wonder they are calling for your resignation. MR. BRETT: No, Mr. Speaker, the budget has not been finalized.

It has not been approved by the House and therefore there is no way for anyone to know what is going to be done next year. MR. NEARY: You do not know? MR. BRETT: But, you know, in spite of the fact that the hon. member is questioning me and I am trying to answer, we are both on the same wave length because I agree with him 100 per cent, there is no question about that. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! ·1 j G G ' ·I .. I ' I

March 23, 1981 MR. BRETT: probably in December SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. BRETT: Tape No. 552 NM - 3 I think that I should know Oh, oh! In December I should know what money I will have to spend - MR. TULK: MR. BRETT: not permit us to do it . MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. NEARY: hon. gentleman - MR. SPEAKER: MR. HISCOCK: MR. SPEAKER: MR. NEARY: Are you on Treaury Board? - this year? But the law will It is as simple as that. The hon. member for Eagle River. Mr. Speaker, could I ask the Does the hon. member yield? I yield. The hon. member yields. The hon. member for LaPoile.

Do I understand the hon. gentleman correctly, he is talking about Treasury Board approval, is the hon. gentleman not a member of Treasury Board? MR. BRETT: I never ment~oned Treasury Board. MR. NEARY: Never mentioned Treasury Board. The hon. gentleman is a member of Treasury Board7 MR. BRETT: Yes. MR. NEARY: And it is Treasury Board that approves the projects,and here it is now the 23rd. of March and the projects are no~ approved yet. What kind of a shambles, what kind of a disaster are we going to have in the construction in­ dustry this year? MR. SPEAKER: MR. BRETT: The hon. Minister of Transportation. Mr.

Speaker, I have been "! J u 7 ''1

March 23,1981 Tape No. 553 AH-1 MR. BRETT: a member of Treasury Board for a long time, four or five years. Treasury Board does not run the government.And I am sure the hon. member,who was at one time a Cabinet minister,is quite aware of that. MR. NEARY: I was a member of Treasury Board too . MR. BRETT: Treasury Board may suggest, may make recommendations and so on and so on 1 but the hon. member knows that the final decision does not rest with Treasury Board and the final decision is the bottom line, the Budget.

You know, that is the bottom line and of course even then it still. has to come before the House for final approval. MR. NEARY: MR.SPEAKER (Simms) : MR.HISCOCK: What an incredible mess. The hon. member for Eagle River. My question is also to the Minister of Transportation (Mr.Brett), with regard to the community of Cartwright. Cartwright is rather concerned that last year because of a small population they had trouble meeting their budget. They have a plow and they have a truck and various other municipal equipment.

In this community the snow clearing operation for last year was given to FeadJ.a!"CI Construction,which is owned by Mel Woodward Limited. There were no tenders called whatsoever, it was just given to Mr.Woodward's company. Could the minister inform this House ·.·rhy was not the community council in Cartwright notified about this so that they could have at least bid on this tender? And number two, could the minister also inform this House how much was this contract-because there was no tender called - ho'" much was this contract qiven to Mr. Woodward as blatant political patronage?

SOME HON. ~~E!J!.BERS : Hear, hear! ·1 :J u 0 .. , ''I .. , .,

c•larch 23,1981 SOHE HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Siroms): MR. BRETT: Tape No. 553 AH-2 Oh, oh~ The hon. Minister of Transportation. Mr. Speaker, this is a real twist this is after what we have heard in the last three or four days. I am sorry, I have to advise the hon. member that I certainly do not have the information at my fingertips as to lvhy Mr. c~oodward was given the job of clearing the snow in that particular community.

I have no idea in the world why public tenders were not called and I have no idea what the cost was 1 but I am certain, I am absolutely certain that there was a good reason for it and I will certainly get the information for the hon.member. I would love to get the information. MR. HISCOCK: c·1R. SPEAKER: for Eagle River. A supplementary. -A supplementary. The hon. member MR. HISCOCK: Mr. Speaker,I was going to ask the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morqan) but seeing he is not in his seat then I will oass and oick up along the wav . MR. SPEAKER: LaPoile. ~IR. NEARY: The hon. member for Mr.

Speaker, my question is for the :•1inister of Finance (Dr. Collins) and it has to do again with the construction industry. Could the hon. g~ntleman indicate why work has been curtailed on the Upper Salmon? All the workers were sent home a week or ten days ago and were told they would be recalled today and today they were notified that they would not be recalled for an indefinite period. What is the problem? Is it a financial problem with Newfoundland Hydro? What is the problem with the work proceeding on the Upper Salmon? IJu] .. ' 'I ' 'I .. ' 'I

March. 23 ,. 1.981 Tape. No, 5 54 SD - l MR .. SPEAKER lSi!lijt):;)_: The hon. the Ninister of Finance. .., DR, COLLINS: Mr, Speaker, that information may be. available t~ t.he. hon, !1ini_s.te.r of Mines and Energy (Mr. Barry), who I expect will be in the. House. hopefully before Question Period is over and he may be able to give the information the hon. member requests. At this point in time I certainly h<lve no information on that. If the han. minister does not come back, I will undertake to make the information available. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Torngat Mountains . ''I MR. G. WARREN: Mr.

Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett). Could the minister advise what time roughly he would expect to know how much road will be paved this year? How much highway in the Province will be upgraded and paved this year? SOME HON. t1EMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Transportation. MR. BRETT: No, Mr. Speaker, I am not going to say as much as possible-that would be very arrogant, you know, that is ridiculous. ~R. STI~-ti.ING: li<Jhen will you know? MR. BRETT: When will I know? MR. S'l'IRLING: When the Budget comes down, I guess . MR. BRETT: Yes, that is the answer, Mr.

Speaker, 'r will know when the Budget comes down because right now I do not, I am serious, I do not know. See, I do not think the hon. meffiPers on the other side understand the way the system works. SOME RON, MEMBERS: Kea;r:, hear. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. BRETT: No 1 really • W HON. MEMBER: And they do not understand . MR. BRETT: As the Department of Transportation, we see 2,000 miles of road in this Province that need to be .. , upgraded and paved and there is nothing, absolutely nothing in the world, that we 1.;ould like better than to see every inch 1 J? 0 ..

71~ March 23, 1981 Tape ~o. 554 SD - 2 MR. BRETT: of that upgraded and paved as quickly as possible. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR. BRETT: That is not for political reasons. The reason is this, that it is so much easier for us to maintain a paved road than a gravel road, much, much easier. So what we want ,we would dearly love to see the whole thing done in the next year or two years or whenever it is physically possible to do it. And because of that, Mr.

Speaker, we send up our programme every year,and I can assure you right now that our programme is ten times as much as the government is ever going to approve for the simple reason that the money is not there. So there is no way that I can tell the hon. member what roads or how much is going to be paved. I will know when the Budget comes down. When we know what dollars we have,then we will decide what roads are going to be done. MR. WARREN: Supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Supplementary, the hon. member for Torngat Mountains. MR. WARREN: Mr.

Speaker, I understand there are some forty-six miles of gravel road in the Bellevue district. Could the minister answer if any of those roads will be paved this year? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Transportation . MR. BRETT: I woufd hope, Mr. Speaker, that every single inch of that forty-six miles of gravel road in Bellevue will be paved this year. MR. MORGAN: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: ~1R. LUSH: By a PC member for the area. Oh, oh! The hon. member for Terra Nova. Mr. Speaker, I have a questi-on for the Minister of Finance ar.d the ?resident of Treasury Board CPr. Collins) _.

I wonder if the mini ,ster can indicate whether there has been any change in status of the tt"o strikes within the Public Se:r;-vice, namely, the one involving the <,.;orkers ·1 5 71 •. l .

~larch 23, 1981 Tape No. 554 so - 3 ~1R . LCSil: at the rnllece of Trade s and Technology and th e one involving the ~vorkers at the l<lo r~er.s' Compensation Boa:::d, ~..rhether t:hese has been any change i:1 the status o= these strikes the la st few days or whether the government have t:.al<en any ste?s .:o get: both sides back to the bargaining ::able? :>lR . S:?SAKER (Sinuns) : The hon . ~inister of ?ina<ce DR . COLLINS: :1r . S9eaker, to :ny k:"lowl~dge there :tas been :10 change.aecause of other activities,! did not have an opportunity of checking with the Secretary of Treasury Board this :norning if he had he .ard of any ·1 S; 2 '1! .. ., ,., '11 ~.,

March 23, 1981 Tape 555 PK - 1 DR. J. COLLINS: change there, but I feel pretty certain that if there had been any significant change he would have been chasing me. I did not hear from him so I assume, and I am pretty certain this is so, that there has not been any change since the situation last week. MR. LUSH: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Simms): member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: A supplementary, the hon. Mr. Speaker, the minister is aware that the bargaining unit,with respect to the workers at the College of Trades and Technology,were rejected a conciliation board.

I am wondering if the minister is aware of any other steps taken within the normal procedures for resolution of a labour dispute, whether the minister is aware of any steps taken outside of this step by the union to seek a conciliation board, whether there have been any other steps taken by this bargaining unit or any other steps taken by the government? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Finance. DR . J. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, we have a conciliation officer in place and a conciliation officer is available to both sides any hour of the day.

And the conciliation officer himself on a regular basis checks with one side or the other to see if there is any new point coming up that needs to be looked into or any avenue that looks in any way hopeful is being thought of. And we ourselves have suggested to the conciliation officer certain points that he may bring to the attention of the union to get their reaction, and I am sure he has done that. ~o date there has not been anything come out of that, but that mechanism is still in place. It i_s a very useful mechanism. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! 'I J / l

March 23, 1981 MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Simms): MR. LUSH: MR. SPEAKER: han. member for Terra Nova. MR. LUSH: Tape 555 PK - 2 Order, please! A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A final supplementary, the Mr. Speaker, can the minister indicate whether or not the bargaining unit for the support staff of the College of Trades and Technology, can the minister indicate whether or not that unit asked for a mediation officer? MR. SPEAKER: DR. J. COLLINS: asked for a mediation officer. The hon. Minister of Finance. I am not sure whether they They did ask at one time that the question of mediation be considered. Now I think the hon.

Minister for Labour and Manpower (Mr. Dinn) has pointed out to hon. members that the act does not contain such a provision. In other 1··o rds, the act really does not say anything about mediation as such. Conciliation, arbitration, yes. Mediation, no. This is a mechanism, but as I say it is not in the act. It has been brought up. It has not been given to anyone to my knowledge in any very definitive form, what is considered by that. But I think it would be fair to say that we have indicated that we do not think 'I S / ~ .. , .. ,

~ Harch 23, 1981 Tape No. 556 EL - 1 DR. COLLI}JS: that this would be a useful mechanism, be it in the act or not, that this would be a useful mechanism in regard to this labour dispute. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : expired. The time for Oral Question has Hon. members, I am sure, would like to join with me in welcoming to the Gallery today Council Chairman W. A. Rideout and Councillor Paul Corwin from the Council of Lushes Bight, Beaumont in the district of Green Bay. SOME HON • MEMBERS : MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: Hear, hear!

On a point of privilege, On a point of privilege, the hon. member for Windsor - Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, I am advised that I have to bring a point of privilege to the House before the House at the quickest possible opportunity and this is the quickest possible opportunity. And, Mr. Speaker, I will leave myself in your hands to decide whether or not I have a bona fide point of privilege but I - AN HON. ~£MBER: Prima facie. MR. FLIGHT: - prima facie or whatever term we use, Mr. Speaker. But I believe that my rights in this House, Mr.

Speaker, in this House of Assembly have been breached and I would put myself in your hands to decide whether or not they have indeed, and if you would give me a minute I will give you the basis of my point of privilege. Mr. Speaker, I have represented the district of Windsor - Buchans for in excess of five years. Every member in this House will know that in that five years, four to five years prior to that, the town of Buchans lived with a five-year life expectancy kind of thing, -1 j; 5 . 'I

March 23, 1981 Tape No. 556 EL - 2 MR. FLIGHT: never more than five years. This past five years have been crises situations in that town. We went from an in excess of 500 man payroll to 333. For months in the recent past, a year or so ago, there was only a month's life expectancy left, a total shutdown was facing the people of Buchans. And one of the problems has always been never being kept informed as to what exactly is happening with regards to the mining operation. The government of the day, Mr.

Speaker, undertook, at the recommendation of a task force report,to get monthly projections from the company as to what their projections were with the ongoing operation. Now, Mr. Speaker, last year the Minister of Mines and Energy (L. Barry) stood in this House and made a statement that was given to him by Abitibi-Price indicating that a new ore body had been found and that it looked promising and that they believed that it would go into pro- duction.

The people of Buchans got what they thought was a reprieve but, Sir, these past months there have been indications that that ore body may not be developed in time to stop a shut- down. The ore itself is not consistent. They are not sure the quantity is there, they are not sure of the method they were used to mine an~ the question now, Sir, Buchans is rife, Buchans is rife with the question as to just exactly what is going to happen. There are indications that the corn- pany has indicated officially - HR. SPEAKER (Simms): I believe the hon. member may be going a little further than he should be allowed.

I assume he is making a

preamble leading up to his point of privilege? MR. FLIGHT: There is an indication, Sir, that the work force in Buchans will be ·1 5/ G ' 'I ''I ..

March 23, 1981 Tape No. 557 DW - 1 MR. G. FLIGHT: work force in Buchans will be drastically reduced by June of this year, in three months now. And as I say the town itself is rife with questions and nobody seems to be able to get the answers. I stood in this House, Mr. Speaker, and I asked the Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. Barry) a non-provocative , Mr. Speaker. The questions are here, any fair-minded person can judge the questions that I asked the minister. And the minister, Mr. Speaker, in answering accused me of using scare tactics in questioning the situation in Buchans.

I asked a responsible question that I have a right to ask. I asked, based on the facts and based on the concerns that I know to be in Buchans and based on information that I was given a day before I asked the question. Now, Mr. Speaker, I would be ashamed if I wittingly or unwittingly used scare tactics in this House.

If I played on the sense of insecurities in this town, if I played on the anxieties of the people of that town I would be ashamed if any other member representing any other district who had a town in the situation that Buchans is in it would be below contempt for him to use the situation as scare tactics or in political terms. And, Mr. Speaker, I believe - I want that remark withdrawn. The damage may be done, Mr. Speaker. The press correctly reported the minister in saying that I was using scare tactics on the Buchans situation. That damage is done.

I may be able to deal with that myself in my own way outside of this House but, I believe, Sir, that I am entitled to and I ask now for a retraction of that statement by the minister that I used the Buchans situation - used scare tactics in phrasing my question to the Minister of Mines and Energy on the Buchans situation. I want that statement retracted . . , s I' 7 ''I .. ' .. ,

... - .:1arch 23, 1981 SOME BON. ME~BERS : ~1R. SPEAKER (Simms): Energy. :vi~. L. BARRY: Tape No. 557 DW - 2 Hear, hear! The hon. Minister of Mines and To that point of privilege, Mr . Sneaker, yes,that was the phrase that I used and 1yes 1 the press correctly reported it. I said that the hon. member ooposite was using scare tactics. I repeat that aqain today, Mr. Sneaker; that is exactly what the hon. member has done in this spurious ooint of ;?rivilege which he has raised.

"Indica­ tions are the ore body will not be developed this year·; "Indi­ cations are the work force will be reduced this year" - inci­ dentally,the press incorrectly quoted the response in the House on that point. I will refer to that correction in a moment, Mr. Speaker. "Indications are that the work force will be reduced:' •Indications are that the ore body will not be developed" . Indications from whom, Mr. Speaker? Indications from the hon. member opposite and nobody else including the company. SO~E HON. MEMBERS: Shame! Shame! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Mt:(. L. BARRY: Indications are, Hr.

Speaker, received by me,as I indicated in response to the member's question,on infor­ mation received from the company two days before I gave the hon. member the answer, further indications received from the com- oany since,when I double checked just in case the hon. member for once in his life knew what he was talking about, end, Mr. Speaker, it is confirmed again that there is nothing in what the hon. member opposite is saying as far as the company is concerned. And the quote in the press that I indicated that there would be some reduction in the work force is incorrect. And it just goes to show the affect, Mr.

Speaker, of the tactics used by the hon. member opposite when he creates the very confusion by the muddying of the water by his quotes of'' indications are." Indications from whom, Mr. Speaker? Let the hon. me~ber get up and say who the indications are from. I did not say there would be any reduction 'j :J ; i] .. I 'I

!-larch 23, 1981 Tape No. 557 ow - 3 MR. L. BARRY: in the work force and if things go as they should there will not be . SOME HON. .MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Order, olease! I believe we are entering more into the area of a debate at the oresent time rather than discussion on the point of privilege. I will reserve my rulinq on the ooint of ~rivilege raised by the hon. member for Windsor - Buchans (Mr. Flight) and give a ruling at a later time. MR. G. FLIGHT : A further point of privilege, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A further point of privilege, the hon. member for Windsor - Buchans. !'I.R. G.

FLIGHT: ''r. c:;neaker, for the hon. minister's information, I had no intention of releasing this information to the House of Assembly ,but since the hon. minister has asked me to - !'I!..R. SPEAKER: Order, please! The hon. member has a point of privilege. MR. G. FLIGHT: A point of Privilege, yes, Sir. And the point of privilege is that the minister has accused me again today of scare tactics. Well, my information came from the federal ~1inister of Mines (J.Erola) that Asarco and Abitibi-Price reports to.

I have documentation not only saying that the work force will go in June from 333 employees, but naming the number of employees and designated the skills that will be used and the kind of work they will be doing. A..l\4 HON. MRII1BER: !'I!R. G. FLIGHT: Withdraw. And, ~1r. Soeaker, there is certain circumstances that that • . .;ill not happen. And for anyone who knows the Buchans mining operation right now it is practically impossible for those circumstances to take place. So Buchans is '! 5 :: q ''I '"1

March 23, 1981 MR. FLIGHT: MR. SPEAKER ( S i.mms) : MR. FLIGHT: MR. SPEAKER: MR. FLIGHT: Tape No. 558 NM - 1 facing a curtailment from - Order, please! - 333 to 90. Order, please! And the minister is not getting the information he is supposed to get fromASARCO. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! I think I can rule on that particular point of privilege at the present time.

There is not a prima facie case of privilege but the hon. member has taken the opportunity to disp~te or argue facts that may or may not have been attributed to him and that is not a point of privilege, certainly not a prima facie case point of privilege. The original point of privilege related to the comments "scare tactics". I would like tore­ view Hansard and I will give a ruling on that at a later time. PRESENTING REPORTS BY STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES: MR. SPEAKER: DR. COLLINS: The hon. Minister of Finance. Mr. Speaker, pursuant to subsection (2) of

section 28 of The Financial Administration Act,I wish to table special warrants related to theDepartrnents of Social Services, Transportation and Justice. MR. SPEAKER: MR. SPEAKER: DR. COLLINS: Further reports? NOTICES OF MOTION: The hon. Minister of Finance. Mr. Speaker, I give notice that I will on tomorrow move that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to consider certain resolutions for the granting of interim supply to Her Majesty. MR. SPEAKER: Further notices? 'I S G q ''I

March 23, 1981 Tape No. 558 NM - 2 ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR WHICH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN: MR. SPEAKER: and Energy . MR. BARRY: The hon. Minister of Mines Mr. Speaker, I understand before I arrived in the House today the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) asked a question concerning the Upper Salmon. AN HON. MEMBER: Oh,yes. MR. BARRY: Well I just had the question briefly reported to me. It is my understanding that the fine weather that the rest of us have been enjoying has created problems for contractors on the Upper Salmon, and presumably for contractors elsewhere in the Province,in that the roads have become soft.

I am not sure whether this is actually what has happened today. I will check and make sure but I had received information last week that there was a possibility of a shutdown because the roads were turing into a bit of a mess because of the balmy that resulted. weather and the softness MR. SPEAKER: Further answers to questions? The hon. Minister of Transportation. MR. BRETT: Mr. Speaker, I have the answer to question number 15, asked by the member for St. Barbe to myself and it appeared on the Order Paper of March 4th. The question must be 15A I guess, 15A, B, C, and D.

The first, lSA is that $22,328,000 was budgeted for snow clearing for the year 1980-81 and the next part of the question, at last reporting date, which was March lOth., 1981, a total of $19,567,000 has been spent. So that is a saving of between $2 million and $3 million. The next part of the question,the answer is the budget for 1979-80 was $19,483,000 as compared to $22,328,00 for 1980-81. And then the last part of the question with respect to private contractors, payments to private contractors totalled $963,217 to March lOth., 1981. And this amount covers a total of fift y individual ., 5 u 1 .

March 23, 1981 MR. BRETT: public tender. Tape No. 558 NM - 3 contracts all arranged by And then, Mr. Speaker, I also want to table the answers to questions by the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) with respect to the transportation of my private yacht- a question mark- from Harbour Breton to Clarenville. I have the total correspondence, whatever correspondence was on it. I have enough for all members of the House.

Just a few brief remarks in tabling this in­ formation to say that had I known, had I known that it was going to cost this much I wou~d not have touched it with a ten foot pole, because I had a boat, a much larger boat than the one that I have now, moved from Bonavista to Clarenville last Spring at a fraction of this cost. Un­ fortunately I got stuck and had to use the department equipment and when I got the list of expenses in February I went snakey and even to this minute I question whether I should have paid it or not. But anyway I guess I did not have much choice, AN HON. MEMBER: Did you pay it? MR.

BRETT: Oh yes, it has been paid. Yes. But,you know,I question whether I should have paid such an exhorbitant amount. Just for the record, Mr. Speaker, the correspondence is here between the staff, there were three people involved, my deputy minister, my executive assistant and myself, and they are the only people who were involed as far as written correspondence are concerned. But the total cost, which I think is exhorbitant, and I am stuck with it now and there is not very much I can do about it except be angry, I :j Li .2 ., ··~

.• March 23,1981 Tape No. 559 AH-1 MR. BRETT: The total cost was $1,887.66. I am sure had I got a private float,which I got last Spring to move,as I sai~ a much larger boat,the cost was about­ well,in comparison,I suppose,less than one third of what I paid. But I think that the order that I gave was mis­ understood. But anyway,the float for twenty-six hours at $21.35 an hour was $555.10. The pick-up - I do not know what they wanted the pick-up for- for twenty-three hours at $5.50 was $126.50. Float operator for thirty-two hours at $7.05 was $225.60.

Float operator overtime - I do not know why there was any overtime - $2 . 0 5 an hour and then $7.05 times one and a half gave me $216.78. Carpenters- I still do not know why they wanted carpenters but anyway they had them- forty nours at $7.62 for $304.80.And carpenters overtime - they must have been at this for a week- ninteen hours,$217.70. And the superintendent- I do not know why he had to be on the job but he was­ $84.80. SOME HON. MEMBER: Oh, oh! MR.

BRETT: I guess they knew it was the minister, so they said we might as well get what we can out of him and then,on top of all that-I never dreamt that all this would come up-a fifteen per cent payroll burden. What is that,I wonder? One hundred and fifty­ seven dollars and thirty one cents for a total of $1887.66. MR. NEARY : Is there a receipt there? MR. BRETT: No, I have not got the cancelled cheque. Ihave wired my bank manager. I instructed my executive assistant to pay thi~ on the seventeenth. MR. NEARY: What about a receipt? MR. BRETT: MR. SPEAKER(Simms): I do not have a receipt for it. Order, please!

This is Answers to Questions and not Question Period. ·1 j b l •·, ''I

March 23,1981 Tape No. 559 AH-2 MR. BRETT: The cheque has been written and I realize that the House would want something so I phoned my bank manager this morning and asked him if the cheque was in. He said no. The ~heque was made out on the seventeenth,and I wired him and I said, "Please advise by telex "- MR. NEARY: MR. BRETT: MR. NEARY: MR. BRETT: The seventeenth of March? Right. Aha! No, no. So I wired my bank manager, one of my bank manaqers - MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) that cheque was not made out until we raised it in the House. MR.

BRETT: - at the Scotia Bank in Clarenville and the telex reads, "Please advise by telex when you receive - MR. NEARY: Resign, resign. MR. BRETT: - for payment cheque No. 25 drawn on my account and payable to the Department of Transportation." And, Mr. Speaker - MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) payment. MR. BRETT: I wish I did not have to. Mr. Speaker, if the House requires that the cancelled cheque be tabled,then certainly I have no objection in this world. The only thing I can say about all this, Mr. Speraker, is that there were two rides in this whole thing. MR. NEARY: away with it. MR.

BRETT: You thought you were going to get One was a boat. The boat got a ride ,there is no question about that.And the second person that got the ride was the member for Trinity North (Mr.Brett), because had I know , had I had any indication in this world that I would have had to cough up $2,000,then I can ., J (j :. ''I . ''I 'I .., ·,

.... March 23,1981 MR. BRETT: a fifty foot pole. MR.SPEAKER (Simms): MR. MARSHALL: Tape No. 559 AH-3 assure you I would not have touched it with Any further Answers to Question? ORDERS OF THE DAY Order 1. Address in Reply . At last date debate on the amendment ~oved by the hon. the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) to the Address in Reply was adjourned by the hon. the member for Bay of Islands (Mr. Woodrow). The hon. the member for Bay of Islands. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WOODROW: Mr. Speaker,I would like to ask the hon. member for Trinity North (Mr.

Rrett) not to be to much upset because it is costing me $1500 to get the transmission fixed in my car. It is being done by City Motors of Corner Brook and not by the Department of Transportation. Mr. Speaker,I am very happy and delighted to have the privilege to stand in this hon. House today and say a few words. I would like first of all to congratulate the new Leader of the Opposition, the member for Bonavista North district (Mr. Stirling) and wish him well in his new position. Mr.

Speaker,virtually all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians have voiced their support and approval at our Premier's diligent stand on the constitutional issue and his untiring effort to put forward our Province's case on this vital issue. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! ·:sus ... I 'I 'I .. I

March 23, 1981 Tape 560 PK - 1 MR. \vOODRON: Indeed, Mr. Speaker, West Coast parties of all affiliations have expressed admiration on our Premier's continuing efforts to protect and enhance our basic rights. Mr. Speaker, I am also proud to be associated with our present Leader, and I can assure this hon. House that we shall continue to press ahead until we have secured an equal place within the Canadian family. Mr. Speaker, I would like briefly to touch on a number of basic issues that no doubt we will be dealing with in the weeks ahead, and as we are dealing with now. Mr.

Speaker, I have entitled the first topic education. I am very pleased, Mr. Speaker, to support the reorganization of the high school academic programme with the institution of Grade XII. At first I must confess that I was somewhat sceptical of giving it my full support. AN HON. MEMBER: You still are? MR. WOODROW: However, after discussing the various assets of the programme with many learned people in the field of education,and having discussed it with my colleagues, particularly the Minister of Education (Ms.

Verge), I feel that it will prove to be an exciting and beneficial programme for our high school students. A great failure in the past has been an inability to provide a sound foundation for building a well-rounded education. This was due in most part through the lack of professionally qualified teachers and facilities. All han. members would agree that we have come a long way in the field of education,as virtually every community is blessed with the most modern schools and equipment and within 99 per cent of the cases a qualified teaching staff. ·1 S u G .. I •·, 'I

March 23, 1981 Tape 560 PK - 2 ~!R . WOODROW : I am hopeful that there will be sufficient funding allocated to ensure an effective reorganized programme and to allow for an availability of teachers where needed. Mr. Speaker, I am sorry that the hon. member for Trinity-Bay de Verde (Mr. F. Rowe) is not here, and hardly any members left around at all, but I would just like in reply to him to state a few facts on what has been done for education over the past ten years. In the past ten years, Mr. Speaker, government has provided $200 million worth of new school construction.

Operating grants ·to school boards have been increased, redesigned, and redesigned to provide extra to di=tricts with above average heat and light costs, -.:.:>ove average bus transportation costs as the above - averac =e enrollments incline. In the past ten years, Mr. Speaker, from 1971-1972 to 1981-1982,student enrollment will decline, unfortunately it is going to decline by 16,000. And the number of teachers will increase by 1,300. Teacher~ salaries have increased from $46 million to $200 million.

Grade XII will not be offered until three years from now, so I do hope that the·prograrnrne,when it is on the road,will be all right. ·1 J u 7 .. , ... f ''I

11arch 23, 1981 Tape No. 561 SD - 1 1--!R. L. TfJOODROW: Mr. Speaker, I am concerned, and t perhaps the member for Fogo (Mr. Tulk) will be glad to hear this, in the Monitor, which is a paper published by the Catholic Church in Newfoundland, Brother Brennan, who is one of the most if not the most outstanding educator in this Province has expressed some concerns about maybe what I would call the viability of Grade XII, if that is the term. And I would be less than honest, Mr. Speaker, if I did not mention his concerns because I think they are certainly legitimate.

I will just outline the headings: number one, reason for present ~nadequacy; present per capita • ~ i expenditure; standing facilities still lacking. dnd by the way, I will table this for every member to see.

The fourth concern, libraries; the fifth concern, cafeterias; the sixth concern, science facilities; the seventh concern, instrumental music; the eighth concern, servicing the handicapped; the ninth, those who will not benefit from Grade XII; number ten, new programmes or services; n~~er eleven, arts education; number twelve, industrial arts and horne economics; number thirteen, present capital needs; number fourteen, let us do our present task better; and finally, why the rush. N.R. TULK: 1-laybe you will define education. MR.

WOODROW: Well, these are certainly - the whole thing should be read and I feel when I table it all hon. members 1vill be able to see it. But we certainly have, no doubt about it, 11r. Speaker, a terrific job ahead but I feel sure that the educators of our day and the government of our day, the intelligent members in Cabinet, I am sure they must have thought out this thing very painfully and furt hermore that with the prosperity that they hope is ahead for this ~rovince there w·ill not be any great difficulty in getting •;~hat perhaps •.. ' ·1 S u !J

:-:a=c?1 23, 1981 Tape ~o. 561 SD - 2 :•L~. NOODRO\\ : is the most: underlyin g thing and ~~ac is the money to provide those facilities, the money t:> provide whatever is :1eeded to put Grade XII in this Province . : do not k~ow ~hat the amount is, I suppose it is very c.:.==icult t.:> say Hhat che a1nou:1t is with t..'le :Ugh cost of i::=!ation a~d the like. Mr . Speaker, I ~~going to concinue on 1~ith education .

Nhen I became a councillor with the City o= Corner srook in February,l972, r was ~~e city 1s representative on the Library Board,and since that time t~e board and city residents have endeavoured to 9rovide a li~rary =or Corner 9=ock. :·!r. Speaker , at the moment , books are scactered t..~oughout a number of locacions including Sir Richard Squires 3uilding and book depots here and there in the city a:1d :1eedless to say this is a ~est undesi=able arrangement.

The matter has been under serious consideration for some ti:ne. the need ha ving been addres sed to the =ormer a~~inistration , In =act, I have here a whole lot o= correspondenc e on ~~hat has been do:1e to try co provid e Corner Brook with a library. Indeed ! have several piec es of correspondence dating back to 1974 1 including lette: s from former Premier ~oores, Dr . Tom Farrell, ~!. 0 . ~!organ and others in •11/h ich ., ~ u g •. , ., ·~1

March 23, 1981 Tape No. 562 EL - 1 NR. WOODROW: interest and support were indicated. More recently I have discussed the matter with my colleagues from Humber East(L.Verge) and Humber West (R. Baird) and I feel sure that they both feel my interest in ]roviding a proper library facility for the City of Corner Brook,which would,of course , serve a wide area in and around the city. Mr. Speaker, Corner Brook and the adjoining areas are rapidly growing and the growth means that construction of a public library is becoming all the more ur- gent and I hope, Mr. Speaker, that - I doubt if we have a quorum, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : for Bay of Islands. MR. WOODROW: No, we do not have a quorum. Call in the members. Order, please! We have a quorum. The bon. member Mr. Speaker, I know and everybody knows that at the present time there is a great library being built here in the city of St. John's,and I hope the buck for the libraries will not stop at the overpass. I think that we as members- there are four of us her from the Corner Brook, Bay of Islands area-and I hope that our voic~will not go unheeded in trying to get a place, to get a library for the great second city of this Province, the city of Corner Brook.

I simply wish to draw attention to this worth1vhile and pressing project and I am very ho:@eful that government will provide the necessary assistance so that the library in Corner Brook can become a reality. My next item, Mr. Speaker, is the fishery. As it was in the past, the fishery continues to be the mainstay of our Provincial economy. As indicated in the ·1 ;J ::i r1 '" 1 .. , •·;

March 23, 1981 Tape No. 562 EL - 2 MR. WOODROW: gr~cious Speech from the Throne, government believes strongly that the long-tenm future of this Province must rest on our renewable resources, the most im­ portant of these being our fishing industry. This being the case, it follows, Mr. Speaker,that our provincial government and our local fishermen be involved on a daily basis in the in­ dustry. They should have a significant say in how our fishery develops.

Already while a Royal Commission on the fishery is in progress, the Federal Government has begun to institute far-reaching policies which affect every fishermen operating in this Province. !1r. Speaker, I can assure this House that as a result,bona fide fishermen, in the Bay of Islands district are having difficulty in securing a basic living from the fishery due to radical changes in fishery cegulations. Mr.

Speaker, the inshore fishery must always remain our full priority in development since it has and will continue to be the primary economic base for the continued existence and prosperity of rural Newfoundland. Therefore offshore efforts must be curtailed until it is proven that offshore operations do not jeopardize a healthy inshore fishery. Mr. Speaker, we must continue to impress upon the Federal Government the need to share res­ ponsibility for the management of this Province's greatest re­ source.

We cannot continue to accept arbitrary 1unilateral pol­ icy decisions undertaken by the Federal Minister of Fisheries (R. LeBlanc) without consultation with the Provincial Govern­ ment and those fishermen directly involved. ·1 S 8 ·1 .. , ''I .., ''I

~arch 23, 1981 Tane No. 563 ow - 1 MR. L. WOODROW: Without shared jurisdiction in the fisheries,we shall continue to be mere spectators wit­ nessing the gradual erosion and final destruction of the in- shore fishery on which denends the rural fabric Province. of our Mr. Speaker, at the present time in the Bay of Islands district there are several fishermen who are panicking.

And thinking of one, for exam~le, there is one gentleman alone,relatively sneaking a young man,forty­ four years of age,he has a boat, thirty-five foot boat and he does not owe a cent on it- the ~nly thing he got from the qovernment was the bounty and the boat- and that man, in fact, will be forced next year, come 1982, be will be forced to give up the fishery. And, in fact, there are several other fisher­ men as well. Only just today I had a call from a fisherman in one of the communities in my district looking for a crab license. And it seems, Mr.

Speaker, I do not want to get critical,but he cannot hold to the federal member. He is not getting back, he is not getting -back to me. J do not know what in the name of goodness is 't'frong - a young, energetic man, the federal member for Humber - St. Barbe (Mr. Tobin) not getting back. I do not mind, in fact, trying to hel~ out all I can,but I feel that every member has an obligation to get back to the people who elected him. In fact, I fear for the fisheries in our Province although l'fe 1• as a Province, are working desperately hard. It is no joke! It is very serious!

And fishermen in your own district as in many other districts, in fact, they will be starved. They will have to go on social assistance unless, in fact, Trudeau is stopped from what he is doing to the fisher­ men of this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! ·1 ;j ..J 2 ''I .. I ''I ''I

~!a!:"Ch 23 1 1981 TaDe No. 563 m·1- 2 1'1\:R. L. I'!OODROT~: Mr. Speaker, the next item I have here on my list is hydro. Hydro transmission has also been a source of growing frustration and concern as it a9~ears that the federal government seems unwilling to exercise its authority through the National Energy Board to alla-v for the transmission of hydro po•1er throuqh neighbouring provinces in the same manner as oil and gas transmission is now permitted.

The question must be posed again and again: how can it be that a Province with massive,cheap,undeveloped hydro power must find in excess of 30 per cent of the Island's electrical requirements from expen­ sive imported oil? Such " .,; t.nFltion, Mr. Speaker, is simply incredible and it is symptomat~ of the current attitude of Ottawa which fails to address our legitimate concerns. Offshore oil and aas. ~uch has been said and written about the issue of offshore oil and gas for resource ownership.

As in the case of hydro transmission,the federal government continues to refuse to treat our oil and our gas resources in the same manner as those found in British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Ontario. Mr. Speaker, '"hY are we to be singled out among our sister provinces because our oil and gas reserves happen to be underwater? ';•ihy do not the rules applied in B.c. apply in Ne1-vfoundland and Labrador? Mr.

Speaker, when we entered Canada in 1949 at Confederation,we did so believing that equality of treatment was a fundamental right and this sovernment has indi­ cated in no uncertain terms that this belief will ?revail. It is unfortunate that the Liberal Opposition of this Province, for the most part, has placed political expedience ahead of our pro­ fincial interests. Mr. Speaker, seekinq equality of treatment for the ?eoole of Newfoundland and Labrador does not make us separatists or any less Canadian. Indeed,a stronc, vibrant Alberta and Nova Scotia make a strong and united Canada, a 'l ,J :J ''I ''I ''i ''I .,

r. :iarch 23 , 1981 Tape No . 563 DW - 3 M~. !.. . 1\00Daow : place where ;?eople can grow and develop as ~~ey wish to do so. Just as a strict authoritarian family will inevitably reb el and fall apart at the se~ms so •,Jill a countrv disintegratE" through the • narrow vision of one man who see!liS determined to sacri :':ice national uni ~y co ensure his ~lace in history . Nr . Speaker, we •11ill have our day in the sun. Our people are looking 'ISS!_ "I 'II -":1 "I 'II

·. March 23, 1981, Tape 564, Page 1 -- apb MR . WOODROW: more than ever before to a bright and secure future, to our Province becoming a viable, contributing member of the Canadian family. History has also placed our Premier in the forefront and history will show that he is the one man who lifted us from the doldrums, ensuring that our present optimism does not simply become another faded dream. Forestry: Mr.

Speaker, representing a district where the forest resource plays such an integral role in our economy, I would l.ike to express my full support of the recent announcement that government will carry out a spray programme to combat the spruce budworm infestation. Having closely watched the devastation of our forest resources over the past number of years, I feel that we have no other practical alternative but to institute an all-out attack on the budworm.

As the Royal Commission's findings point out, to do otherwise would effectually result in the complete destruction of our forest resource with the loss of countless thousands of jobs. IVhile the decision was a difficult one, I think all hon. members would agree that it was a necessary step and the Minister of Forest Resources and Lands (Mr. Power) has indicated it is but one step, one component in a planned integrated approach to forest management and development. MR. ROBERTS: Does the member acrr~~ with Cardinal Newman's observation, 'one step enou~h for me'? MR.

WOODROW: I always admired Cardinal Newman and I always will. SOME HON. ~1EMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. WOODROW: Mr. Speaker, there was one thing that struck me forcefully in the - ., s s ~ ''I

Tf March 23, 1981, Tape 564, Page 2 -- apb MR. ROBERTS: ahead, 'Luke' . MR. WOODROW: Quit while you are One thing that struck me forcefully in the Throne Speech was the mention of the family. As mentioned in the Throne Speech, one of the strong traditional features of the Newfoundland society has been the importance attached to the family, the family must be protected and nurtured. 'In the development of social programmes, therefore, steps will be taken to ensure that the needs of the family are met and every individual in this Province is able to enjoy a minimum acceptable standard of living'. But, Mr.

Speaker, I have something here to bring up which is, I think, really eating at the very heart of our family, and that is the question of abortion in Canada and in this Province. Mr. Speaker, in 1979, there were 65,000 abortions in Canada and they are on the increase. And according to the best legal advice there is no protection in the Charter of Rights for the unborn child. This here, Mr. Speaker, is a brief copy of the Charter of Rightsfromthe hon. member for Humber- St. Barbe. Mr. Speaker, to quote figures for this Province: 1977, total 475; 1978, total 531; 1979, total 630, 1980, approximately 500. Mr.

Speaker, we are going to have a drop of 16,000 children in our schools over the next decade or so and certainly this situation is not doing any good. I cannot, as a member, go along with what is happening regarding abortions and I 'I j S C) .. , .. , .. ,

Harch 23, 1981 Tape No. 565 EL - 1 MR. WOODROW : certainly deplore what is happening in this Province. Mr . Speaker, - MR. THOMS: occurrances, do you know? ~1R. WOODROW: abortion<>. MR. THOMS: How many of those were natural I thought it was therapeutic These were (inaudible). MR. WOODROW: !1r. Speaker, we must recognize that generally there is a price tag on our so-c~lled pro­ gress. Hodern day stresses are greater than they have ever been, stresses on marriage and family life. The times in which we live are infinitely more complex, infinitely more demandinq .

Thus we must keep our progress in its perspecti ve and focus. Change gan be good, change is necessary,but we must ensure that society, that unique lifestyle:is not destroyed for all time. Mr. Speaker, I at least feel here as a member - I was elected here by the people. There are fifty-two of us and I have had, thank God, alotof experience in other fields of life and I want in fact to put all I can into the energy that the Lord has given me to help the people in my district, to help the people in the Bay of Islands. They are depending upon me as they are depending upon the other fifty-one members.

Sometimes there are things perhaps we do not like to say,but there comes a time in all our lives when we have to say it and we have to stand up for principles. And I think that is what this legislature is all about. The degree that we as a people con­ trol our economic development will determine whether we will survive as a distinct culture. This is why the struggle with Ottawa is on-going and why we must have a say in how our SS7 ''I

March 23, 1981 MR. WOODROW: decade ahead. Tape No. 565 EL - 2 Province is to evolve in the Mr. Speaker, I am really glad to have had the opportunity to express my views in the Address in Reply and I congratulate all other members who have spoken and I wish all others who will speak, I wish them well. Sm1E HON. ~1E!~ERS : i1R. HISCOCK: MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : SOHE HON. !1EHBERS: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Hear, hear! . Hr. Speaker. The hon. ~e~ber for Eagle River. Hear, hear! MR. HISCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I would like to compliment the member for the Bay of Islands (L.

Woodrow) on his fine speech and his delivery. I may not agree with all the contents in it but I never question the member's motives in serving his district,and his sincerity. Mr. Speaker, in replying to the Throne Speech ~ uould like to make certain comments as is customery with regards to one's district. I have spoken on them many times before but I would just like to go over a few of them again. One of the main concerns now in the coast of Labrador, Torngat district as well as Eagle River, is with regard to airstrips.

If something is not done shortly with construction of airstrips on the Labrador coast, then we are going to see another repeat of the EPA financial trouble by way of Labrador Airways,and if something is not done then drastic action will have to be taken somewhere aown the line and I hope that this Provincial Government will start -i J s 0

!-larch 23, 1981 Tape No .565 EL - 3 HR . HISCOCK : getting involved in constructing more airstrips . Roads ~ ~~ . Speaker, with regard to the Coastal Labrador DREE Agreement, I have been informed by offici als in Ottawa that work will begin on the road this Spring . But ! want to point out that the maintenance of that road and t~e maintenance of all other co~~unity roads in my districl: is .-.!le responsibility of this Provincial Gover~ent and,Mr . Speaker, I can say without hesitation that ~;is government has not carried out its responsibility to the residents of Eagle River in this Province . ·15S9 'I '1 'I 'I

,.... March 23, 1981 Tape No. 566 SD - 1 MR. E. HISCOCK: They ended up constructing a road in Charlottetown and because, Mr. Speaker, of wanting to get out quicker than they wanted to stay there,as well as problems with culverts, we now have a situation where a man is living in another house in the community because his house is flooded with water because of poor planning by the Department of Highways With regards, Mr. Speaker, to CBC reception, I will be presenting petitions in the next few days with regard to TV reception in the district,particularly in the communities of Black Tickle and Charlottetown.

Also, Mr. Speaker, with regard to housing, I,through my influence with the Minister of National Revenue (Mr. Rompkey) and then through the Minister of Public Works, Mr. Cosgrove, the hon. member ended up getting the District of Eagle River, from Red Bay to Paradise River designated as aRRAr area. We still do not have this in operation after a full year, Mr. Speaker. And I ask the question, why is it that we do not have more correspondence between Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation and Canada Mortgage?

Why is it that it is getting down to that level that we are having confrontation not only during political matters but also being carried on in departmental matters? With regard to jobs, Mr. Speaker, in my district, my district itself depends totally on the fisheries, half on the Gulf stock and half on the Northern cod. I am rather surprised, Mr. Speaker, by this government's reaction on a few of the things relating to my district and one is with regard to hydro rates.

We see in part of our Province we have the Upper Churchill, Lower Churchill probably corning on stream and Muskrat Falls, and yet on the Labrador Coast,as well as other areas of Northern and Southern Newfoundland, the highest rates of electricity in Canada - not only in Newfoundland and Labrador but in Canada, we have the ·1 G u r! .

March. 23, 19 -81 Tape No. 566 SD - 2 MR. HISCOCK: highest rates and this is because you have to have diesel electricity. Mr. Speaker, if you use electricity by th.e way of hydro1 the more electricity you consume the cheaper your bill becomes,but with regard to diesel, th.e more energy you burn, consume, the higher the rates. So therefore not only have we the highest rates of electricity in this Province of Canada, the more the people in that area consume, £hey have to pay more and more all the time - it escalates instead of de-escalating. And these people, Mr.

Speaker, the reason why- and I spoke before and I will speak many times again - the Premier brought up the question of the Labrador boundary and that under the new Constitution probably the boundary could be changed. r.fr. Speaker, if we have any danger with regard to changing the boundar~- it will not come from outside, it will come from inside and within Labrador itself,and that is the idea of equality, the idea of fairness, the idea of justice. The President of the Privy Council (Mr.

Marshall) is probably recognized in this House as rather famous for his saying, 'Justice not only has to be done but it has to appear to be done: There is no sense, Mr. Speaker, in Labrador, if we developed the hydro in the Lower Churchill and in the . Muskrat Falls that we are developing that area of our Province, justice might be done in the sense that these are being developed through . the taxpayers but, Mr. Speaker, justice has to appear to be done.

These were the original inhabitants of Labrador, they are living on the South Coast of Labrador of our Province, and even Quebec, wh.en we went to court in 1927, even Que~ec recognized that this belonged to Newfoundland. And whathavewe, as a Province, done towards these people living on the. South. Coast of Labrador of our Province, what have we done to them? They still only have one telephone in some of their communities, they still have no TV reception, they ·1 G G '! .. , ''I

March 23, 1981 Tape No . 566 SID - 3 1-!R . HISCOCK : still do not 9'7en have roads within their c0mmuni ties, they still have to maintain t~•o homes, they still have one room schools , they still have teachers 1"ho ars supposed to be teaching in Pinsent' s Arm and ~vi lliam ' s Arm but because of lack of accommodations these teachers are now teaching over in St . Anthony . We still have the highest rates of glectricity, 1-1e still have not one bit ef ?avement. Mr . Speaker , the frustration and the alienation that the people in my district feel is not with the threat ·1 G .J? 'l] ·~r]

March 23, 1981 Tape 567 PK - 1 MR. HISCOCK: of Quebec taking it. Even though you hear in the upper part of my district of wanting to join Quebec, it is done from the point of frustration. How do we get the ministers from St. John's and the Premier to recognize the alienation, the feeling of abandonment in the Northern part of our Province. Time and time again, Mr. Speaker, the North -the member for the Bay of Islands (Mr. Woodrow) said about a library being built in St. John's, hopefully the money will not stop, he said, at the overpass.

This is not only said by members outside of the overpass, but all members of this House- but time and time again,whether it was with regard to building the pulp mill, with regard to the building Come By Chance, whether it was with regard to buildingthe Trans-Canada Highway, and we hear the same thing now with regard to getting the infrastructure ready for the oil and gas, places outside of the overpass will have to wait until for the golden rainbow, the Pot of Gold. Mr.

Speaker, we have been living in this Province, in Southern Labrador, and still find we have to wait. 'Oh,you will get your schools when the oil and gas comes on stream. You will get your health clinic. You will get better communications. You will get postal service, TV reception, you will get your airstrips. But in the meantime we have to build a synchrolift here in St. John's. In the meantime we have to do the cross arterial road here in St. John's. In the meantime we have to do another overpass up by the Avalon Mall.

In the meanti~e-,we have to turn around and get into some other research project with regard to oil and gas.' -, G :.i J ' 'I .. I ' ·I

March 23, 1981 Tape 567 PK - 2 MR. HISCOCK: So, Mr. Speaker, if this Province, and I say this with a great amount of sincerity, if this Province does not realize that Labrador is becoming more and more alienation,all of the time, and if this Province does not address these problems on a day to day basis,then the threat will not come from without, it will come from within. And I say, Mr.

Speaker, this is not fanning the flames of separatism, this is not using scare tactics, this is from a member who grew up and lived on the Island and studied 4ere at the University and travelled and, for whatever reason, taught in Labrador in charge of youth projects and then finally a member. It is my concern, Mr. Speaker, as being a member for that area and also being a resident of this Province that we are not addressing the day to day needs of Labrador. We have a Premier now, Mr. Speaker, for the past two years we have what from the present administration? Nothing.

I would ask any minister here to stand up and outline any programme that has created jobs in the past two years. Is it Abitibi-Price? Surely not. The federal government turned around and gave a tax right-off which was the result of most of these jobs. The DREE agreements, the forestry agreements, the roads agreements and any other projects always goes back to the federal government. We have an administration, Mr. Speaker, who turned around and said,"Blect us because we have the fish and chips in Ottawa." We found out while they were in Ottawa for nine. months they put a freeze on everything for six months.

SO~B HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. HISCOCK: Even in those three months when we had two ministers from this Province we still did not get anything. All the great co-operation we had with the fish ·1 G u [ ~ ''I ''I

)la=ch 23 , 1981 Tape 567 PK - 3 1-!R . HISCOC'!\ : and cnips ,we never got any~~ ing. But , .'lr. Speaker , '"'e know \.iha<: <:he Prem ier die with the :or::~er Pri;ne .:<!inister , .'lr . Clark, on the steps of Confederation Building during the election . Ne also know •..;hat he did •11i th the forme r Hinister of Fisheries , :·:.= . :·!cGra<:h . I really as~ the question, i = ••r. Clark hac cont:.r:ued, '"ould we have seen -.his con.:rom:ational isst:e bet\.;een Ot::awa and St . John's? P..nd you knm~ my answe r is - t.he ans• ,le r •.;~ould be yes . The ans\ver would be yes , ~!r . Speaker .

Because i.:. is the .:actics , it is the style , it is the mak e- up of our Pra~~er . Yo u only see him when his hands are going and t~~ing som ebod y on and fighting :or some rights . :·tr . Speaker , when I was cea chinq CO\om in Bonavist a before the election.! decided to get into .:reelance writing , t.'lac I '"'ould try my ha..-ld at writing; •.,·here I had a degree in Political Science,! decided around chis tL~e of the year ••hen t:he Premier ended up running for the leadership along wi"t".h Hr . Carter and along v;ith Senato r Doody , ·1 u ..J ~ .. ,

Of March 23, 1981 Tape No. 568 NM- 1 MR. HISCOCK: I ended up doing an article, Mr. Speaker, on the PC Leadership Convention and I wrote the article,which I sent to The Evening Telegram, which I am not sure was ever published, but I said in that

article that the Premier, Mr. Peckford, should become the Premier and should become Leader of the PC Party. I said it for various reasons. I said, number one, he was young. Number two, I said he was aggressive. Number three, I said he was a new style of politician, and I said a style of a politician that this Province needed. He was a young,educated man, that the guts reaction he gave,and in most cases that he gives all the time,is that he is a fighter for the Province. So I looked at the various candidates that were running, the three candidates, and I figured the best one would be Mr.

Peckford, and I gave my reasons why in that. I can tell you now, Mr. Speaker, as a person writing such words I have not had the opportunity in my short life span to regret anything that I have ever written, but I can honestly say that is one thing that I have totally regretted. Because since I have gotten to know the man in a political context, whether that be in the district of St.

Mary's-the Capes where he basically says, "Everything stops there, I am the king of the mountain," or whether it is in Burgee-Bay d'Espoir where he does not promise anything anymore - the people in this Province are fed up with promises so therefore the Premier does not promise them - what does he do? He brings down blueprints and shows the fishermen in the district, "This is your bait depot, this is the blueprint." So the fishermen scratch their head and they say, "Well surely, you know, it is not a promise, here are the blueprints. It must be fact." So I can warn the peale in Bellevue now, 1 ;j >:i .,,,

arch 23, 1981 Tape No. 568 NM - 2 MR. HISCOCK: you are not going to get promises from the Premier of this administration. You are going to have bureaucrats that the government is going to be using, provincial government bureaucrats that are going to be going out to the district with plans, and with blueprints, telling the people. But I would ask the people now down in Conne River, where is their bridge? I ask the people down in Ramea - MR. ANDREWS: They got the bridge. MR. STEWART: They got the bridge. MR. HISCOCK: - where is their bait depot( So, Mr.

Speaker, promises are quite easily known in this administration. MR. STEWART: They got the bridge. MR. HISCOCK: Some other areas, Mr. Speaker, I would like to deal with in particular, and this is the Premier's stand on the . Northern cod. I do not know why but I cannot understand his stand on the Northern cod. He claims that there should be 85 per cent for the inshore, 15 per cent for the offshore. He also has another point - MR. SPEAKER (Butt): Five minutes. MR. HISCOCK: - that there should be a three year freeze on the Northern cod.

I do not know if that is for the inshore, the offshore, or for the mid fleet, but a three year freeze would mean to me a freeze. He also gives financial backing to CN so that CN can build a synchrolift here in St. John's• And Mr. Speaker, I am not against a synchrolift here in St.

John's by any means whatsoever, but I have to ask the one question without getting redundant of this debate, that if one of the main reasons why this synchrolift is being built is to service the Russian fleet, and the Premier wants to have a freeze on the Northern cod for three years, and the Russian trawlers are coming to the Northern cod area to catch cod and thereby needing their fleet I G..; 7 ''I .. ,

Harch 23, 1981 Tape No. 568 NM - 5 MR. HISCOCK: serviced, I wonder \-thY: \ve are going to have Russian ships in this harbour or in St. J ohn's being looked after . So , Mr . Speaker , I find a contradiction : that it is great publicity for the Conse r vatives of St. John's, it is great publicity of giving money to CN, a federal Crown corporation, and yet we cannot get roads, we cannot get cli;,ics, we cannot get schools, \ve cannot get housing - and yet we have money for tha"t: , Mr . Speaker. ·1 i.J _~ fi ., ., .. 'I

March 23,1981 Tape No. 569 AH-1 HR. HISCOCK: So I would say, Mr. Speaker, if the media really questioned the Premier on the Northern cod - it is an emotional again and the Premier does not really know where he stands on the Northern cod. One day he wants eighty-five per cent, another day he wants it frozen altogether for three years and another part he is saying to the Russians, "Okay, you can come here in St. John's and use the synchrolift." But in the meantime,the Russians say it is okay,'if we are coming we need 10,000 metric tons!

Is the Premier suggesting that we should give 10,000 metric tons to the Russians and not give 10,000 metric tons to our sister province,Nova Scotia? Surely, Mr. Speaker, that is what he is saying as long as the Russians can use the St. John's synchrolift. Mr. Speaker,with regard to the Labrador boundary. As I said,it is no question with the boundary in this Province. You went in in 1927 and went to court and won that case. Quebec never did contest thot case. When we entered into Confederation by our terms Confederation accepted o11r boundary. So, Mr.

Speaker, let us not get into the eirtotional issues about boundaries. MR. NEARY: It is a good way to distract from the cost of living and the record unemployment and all that stuff we have. MR. HISCOCK: With regard to, Mr. Speaker, the member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) saying distracting-and that is basically what we have had for two years. Two years - MR. NEARY: Right on. MR. HISCOCK: - of total distraction. MR. NEARY: Red herrings. MR. HISCOCK: Total - hands going up in the air and shouting and viens almost coming through their forehead and their eyes almost popping out,basically saying that Ottawa ·1 G w g

March 23,1981 Tape No. 569 AH-2 MR. HISCOCK: is taking this from us, Ottawa is doing this. It gets away, Mr. Speaker, from the fact of the day to day operations of this Province, it gets away from the fact that the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett) is taking his boat and moving it down, taking away from the fact that the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett} gives a contract down in Cartwright without even calling tenders. And not only that one, also, but other things. The Premier lauds himself on the new Auditor General's Report. There is enough in that Auditor General's Report ,Mr.

Speaker to turn around and find out. MR. NEARY: rating we ever had. HR. HISCOCK: Hr. ·speaker, we have the worst Mr. Speaker with regard to this administration one of the things I am rather surprised-and I do not think it really befits theintelligence of some of the private members,who get up and laud the Premier, who laud the Premier in his great oratory and give i1im all the praises. I say and I said it before,if this administration continues to let the Premier become so boastful and caught up with himself that it is going to be dangerous for this party.

And I would say the same thing also if we were in government and we had a person who had an ego as large as this Premier. It is not good for the Province. It is not good for the Premier and the members should be putting more restraints on it. With regard to the cost of living, Mr. Speaker, we have not seen anything to address the ·Cost of living. We asked for a Select Committee of this House and what happened? Nothing. We have seen a government do away completely with the Department of Consumer Affairs, the watchdog of the consumers of this Province. And what happened to it?

The Premier decided that he wanted to take it on personally and have theee baskets each week statinq the cost ·1 G -, n 'I .. , ''I

.... :larch 23 , 1981 Tape No . 569 AH- 3 ~f?. . !iiSCOCK : cf a basket here in St . John's a~c ~~en throug~out che Province . Very, very good, Mr . Speaker . But when, Hr . Speaker, a study of the t1vo departments there recommended a further study i.nto the high =ost of oil and gas on the Labrador Coast and recommended ' 'I it £or a f~rther study , did the Premier have this study? Die the Premier try to fi~d out what was the cause of this proble.rn? No, ~1r . Speaker . Great high publici t y and ~etting on television wit!': his food baskets , that was ,.;hat the Premier 1vas concerned about. Mr.

Speaker,another area I~~ s;,:re ! would like to deal 1"i th is the constitution . The Premier turns around and fights the constitution and I .•. a.':l quit e pleased to say that the Prim e Minister of Canada is :'!OI¥ spea.i.cing on this issue a,nd I am quite pleased also to be ident i fied with this party , the !ederal :.iberals as 1-1ell as the provin cial Libe rals and liberalism in g enefa .l . r am sure the former Pri me Minister Diefe~~aker c.J.so must have his ~iloughts on Mr . Trudeau today . for finally entrenching ''i ''l ' Lla .. - !

March 23, 1981 Tape No. 570 EL - 1 MR. HISCOCK: the Bill of Rights into the Con- stitution. l'/'e find, Mr. Speaker, we have very narrow­ minded provinces. r,'e find provinces saying that the country is made up of parts. We would find, Mr. Speaker, if it was left up to the provinces, the multi-nationals running us left, right and centre. So, Mr. Speaker, I am quite pleased that there is a Liberal Government that is bringing in the Constitution and is bringing it back.

We are not going to Westminster and asking westminster to repatriate the Constitution or to give a Bill of Rights or a Charter of Rights or give an amending formula. Mr. Speaker, this is being done by Can­ adians in Canada, in committee and in the parliament of Canada and in the senate of Canqda. Over 160 or 170 or 180 groups have appealed before this committee and out of those main recomm- endations,the majority of them have been implemented. We do not hear from the media that they were implemented, we only hear the criticisms.And,Mr.

Speaker, the PC adminis­ tration, federally and provincially, are trying to hang· their hat on two things. Number one, God is not mentioned in the Constitution. And we hear now - we hear the heads rising like seals, bobbing up, shame, shame! Mr. Speaker, the reason why God is not mentioned in the Constitution is because we have no

preamble to the Constitution, and the reason why we have no

preamble to the Constitution is that the provinces could not agree on what should be in the Constitution thereby giving a

preamble. So therefore the Federal Parliament of Canada, not the Liberal Government but the Federal Parliament of Canada ,put in a basic package, a basic package. Also, the ·1 G 1 .2 .. , .. , ... •·: .. ,

• 7't- March 23, 1981 Tape No. 570 EL - 2 MR. HISCOCK: member for the Bav of Islands (L. Woodrow) said that unborn children do not have their rights protected in the Constitution. A lot of other groups and other organizations do not have their rights protected in the Constitution. Hopefully,when the Conservative administration gets in power in Ottawa that will probably be one of the first thin~s that they will do. But, Mr.

Speaker, from a personally studied theol~, it is not up to the parliament or the governments of the countries of the world to legislate morality 1 it is up to the individual and to the churcLeS to use their influence on their people in the congregation to practice morality. You can have any law whatever enacted in this country or in this world. We have had the Ten Commandments, Mr. Speaker, since Abraham and they are still being broken. We can turn around and put the Ten Commandments in the Constitution and they will still be broken. So, Mr.

Speaker, let us not get on with this piousness, this greater than thou, this holiness that somehow or another now that the Liberals are - the parliament of Canada is bringing back the Constitution and they are being damned to hell because they are not recog­ nizing the rights of the unborn or God. Surely, we are not going to be going to infinity of the unknown.and surely, Mr. Speaker, it is not up to the government to legislate morality. It is up to the churches to recommend to their people the way that they should go and it is up to the congregation to practice that. "I G I l •· "I

March 23, 1981 Tape No. 570 EL - 3 MR. HISCOCK: So those two issues, Mr. Speaker, are rather weak to hang your hat upon. And I would say, ttr •. speaker, time will tell and the government will say, Mr. Speaker, that this administration is going to be rather sad that they are not on the side of the Constitution. I think it is a great day for Canada, it is a great day for our country to be able to finally get our Constitution and Charter of Rights and get an amending formula. This amending formula will not come into effect for two years.

The Premier of Newfoundland is admitting himself that it is so hard to get along with the other premiers that even in two years fr0m now they still will not be able .to get along, they still will not be able to come up_with an amending formula. Two years they have and,Mr. Speaker, they still will not come up with it. So, Mr. Speaker, by looking at this Throne Speech and by looking at ones that have gone be- fore , in the tradition of the Throne Speech, I ·.1ave never :oeen such a waste of time, enerq", money and paper - turning around and quoting a philosophy as to the direction we should go. Mr.

Speaker, if we had to be led by this administration and by this Premier,I am sad to say that time will show and history will show that we are being led down the garden path Mr. Speaker, with regard to the Prov­ ince and the direction that we are going, I only hope that the member from Burgee - Bay d'Espoir (H. Andrews) has influence upon the Premier and that When the Pranier, he gets in one of his stubborn moods after t~vo years of not sitting down with the Minister of National Revenue n"i.

Romp key) and not sitting down with the Prime Minister of Canada - why is it that Premier Blakeney can go and have supper with him aJnost anytil!E? Or Pranier Lougheed? Why is it that our Premier has not had a meeting with the Prime Minister or with the Minister of National Revenue, !G '·I •·, ' I

March 23' 1981 Tar:e No. 570 1-tR . HISCOCK: and , yet , during the debate on the referendum , the Premier c~~ fly up to Ottawa to be ava~l­ able to the press so he can turn around and give his comments on the Quebec referendum? So , Hr. Speaker , we find we have here in this Provin ce now a Premier who is more concerned with style, mere concerned with tactics than "I u I 5 .. , Et.- 4 • . I .... , .. ! ..

March 23, 1981, Tape 571, Page 1 -- apb ~ffi. HISCOCK: what we are going to have. And I will tell you the people in Bellevue will show the Premier what this government, and what this administration is. There is no question about it, Mr. Speaker, when you have a Pre~ier who has such a big ego that he even scuttles his own candidate and says if we get two more or three more vots for the P.C. candidate this time than we did against :Ir. Jamieson, it will be a moral victory. Well, I will say to him, Mr. Speaker, when we went into St.

Mary's - The Capes, which was a strong P.C.district, we did not scuttle our candidate, we did not go in and say that we were going to lose. We did not know what we were going to be doing, but, Mr. Speaker, we put our shoulders to the helm and we pushed onward and we got the end result. And I say, Mr. Speaker, when you have a Premier who has such a large ego as to scuttle his own candidate, I would like to see what he is going to do with his Minister of Transportation on this issue of transporting a boat.

And I would like to see what he is going to do with the Minister of Labour and Manpower for signing the petition. And I would like to see what he is going to be doing with the Minister of Eucationwhen other people beside the superintendent of the Roman Catholic School Board in St. John's get on about Grade XII. Mr. Speaker, this Province is being led in a reckless direction. It has no direction. And, Mr. Speaker, we depend on the elected representatives in this House. The Opposition, I think, for its

part is doing it, but surely, we do not have to have the private members and the ministers turning around and patting him on the back. We need constructive criticism, we need the ability to be able to listen to constructive criticism. Unfortunately, Mr. Speaker, 'we nmv have an administration and a Premier - I ;_1 I G .. ..

March 23, 1981, Tape 571, Page 2 -- apb MR. HISCOCK: - not only the dangerous thing about it - not only knows what is right but always does right. Mr. Speaker,we know through timeandhistory that man is mortal and he makes mistakes, so there are bigger men than he who have made mistakes in the past and there will be bigger ones in the future. And to turn around and say that this Premier now is one of the best men in Newfoundland, or ever was, I would like to ask a question about Whiteway, Squires and Bond and Smallwood and Moores. MR. SPEAKER(Baird): I would like to remind the hon. member that his time is up.

Is he cluing up his remarks? MR. HISCOCK: SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: half minute. MR. HISCOCK: By leave, Mr. Speaker . No, 'boy'. The hon. member has a Okay. Seeing, Hr. Speaker, that again the government not only snuffles the Opposition, but when a person wants to go on and finish a thought, or finish a train, no, you cannot do it. But, Hr. Speaker, there is always time in this House, not only for this speech but other ones.

Again I would say to the government that they have a greater responsibility than the Opposition, they have a responsibility to make sure that the ministers and the Premier administer this Province for the betterment of all. Not for Conservative people in the Province, not for Liberals, nor for NDP, but for all our Province. Hr. Speaker, I find now that we are getting an administra~ion that has put so much distance between the past administration, and they are becoming so cocky, that they are falling into their own trap. So, Mr. Speaker, with regard to Bellevue and other directions in this Province, ·1 G , 7

March 23, 19Sl, Tape 571, Page 3 -- apb M.."L EISCOCK: I think time wil l tell how the people in this Prov i nc e feel tmvarC. this a~~inistration . Tha~~ you . SOl-I.E SON . ~lEr1BERS : Hear, hear ! ~1R . SPEJl .KER (Baird) : Fortune - Hermitage . SOl.fE HON. ME!olBERS: .!lR. STEWART : The hon . the member for Hear, hear ! Thank you, Mr . Speaker . Mr . Speaker, I would l~ke to start my few brief comments by reading a paragraph from page 2 of the Speech from the Throne : 'The people of this Province have built up over time a level of expectation which d~~ands economic and social parity with other Canadi a n s.

It is surely a right of all Canadians to make such demands and to expect that t .hey will be realized , especially where the wealth to sustain them is presa~t in abundan c e ' . The argument 1 ~1r . Speaker 1 between ~~e federal gover~~e n t and most of Canada ' s ten Provinces is not just over a divisio n o f power 1 'I G I 0 "'1 .. , "'1 "r1

... i1arch 23, 1981 Taf?e No. 572 SD - 1 MR. D. STEWART: it is a battle over resources and money, This is particularly so in Newfoundland where the dispute centers on the benefits from oil, fish and hydro power. Also, Mr. Speaker, you probably wish, like many Canadians, that we stopped talking about the proposed new Constitution. I wish we could, too. However, •• i Mr. Speaker, under the proposed Constitution our boader could be changed without our consent. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh. MR. STEWART : We could even be abolished - MR. SPEAKER (Baird) : Order, please! MR. STEWART: -Mr.

Speaker, as a province and ab- sorbed into an Eastern Province comprising of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland. The proposed Constitution does not guarantee Newfoundland its historic right to have its hydro power cross Quebec to markets elsewhere. Hon. members opposite question why the Throne Speech contains reference to the Constitution. How blind, Mr. Speaker? We have no reason to trust the federal Liberals , they gave us price and wage control in 1975 when they campaigned against it in 1974.

They promised a just society in 1968 and, yet,the gap has widened since that time because of their lack of political will to tackle the problems of this country. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. MR.

STEWART: This government has pointed out in the Speech from the Throne 'provide a new direction in resource development which led to: one, a new power agreement with ERCO; two, new legislation to gain greater benefits from the Upper Churchill; three, a local preference policy .. which has created hundreds of new jobs and stimulated local I industry; four, workers' compensation for fishermen; five, a re-organized Fisheries Loan Board; and six, a Royal Commission to inquire into all aspects of the inshore fishery.' Mr. Speaker, fishing is this Province's most important industry- SOME HON.

MEMBERS: Oh, oh. ., G ;J . ..

March _ 23 1 l9Jll Tape No, 572 so - 2 MR, STRWAR'.r ; - with as much as one half of the population in Newfoundland depending directly or indirectly on it for economic well-being, MR, NEARY: MR. STEI\TART : But the oil is going to be our salvation. Maybe so. For the moment though, Mr. Speaker, the federal government has jurisdiction in the fishery yet we, as provincial MHAs, are constantly approached by our fishermen. Why? Because we are the most visible and accessible political figures around. Much emphasis has been placed on the fishery and it is expected, Mr.

Speaker, that fish landings will increase from 637,000 tons this year to just over one million tons oy the middle of the decade. At the same time the landed value of that fish,which is really the amount of money our fishermen will receive , will increase from $18Q million to $295 million. MR. NEARY; of the oil. That is more than we will get out ~ffi. STEWART; The expected value of that fish will increase from $495 million to $885 million by 1985. The real employment gains, Mr, Speaker, in the fishery will come in the form of shore-oased jobs in the processing plants.

However, Mr, Speaker, essential matters such as the signing of quotas, the licencing of fishermen and management and supervision of the fish stocks all remain within the control of the federal government, Indeed, Mr. Speaker, if the current licencing programme is not handled with extreme caution , an unpleasant comparison wi~h the resettlement programme of a few years ago will surely follow, Indeed, it is possible that a licencing policy could do more damage then resettlement if care is not taken.

This Province has the highest taxes, the highest unemployment rate and the lowest standard of living in Canada, this, Mr. Speaker, after more than thirty years in Confederation. And then, ~1r. Speaker, the me~bers opposite ., G z n ''I ''I

:-larch 23, 1981 Tape :-lo . 572 SD - 3 Y.R . STENART : and tne :'ecieral govern;nent que stion why Newfoundlanders claim o•Nnership of any of:'shore minera ls. Under the provincial proposal from offshore development ~e\vfoundland would get 40 per cent o: any oil a::ld gas revenues , tile federal gover!'_-:tent 25 per cent and the oil companies 35 per cent . Under the federa l proposal Newfoundland would get 20 per cent, t!'le :'ederal gover~en t 45 per cent and the oil companies ·1 G 2 '1 ~~~ ':l ·'11 'II '~l 'n

March 23, 1981 Tape 573 t'K - 1 MR. STEWART: 35 per cent. This, Mr. Speaker, could amount to billions of dollars in future years. We as a Province desper.ately need the revenues from oil and gas to pay off our provincial debt,to invest in long-term natural resources like the fisheries and the forestry, and to provide, Mr. Speaker, many badly needed public services still lacking in many Newfoundland and Labrador communities.

This government has always maintained that our fishery, our hydro power, and our offshore resources be developed in line with provincial priorities and that this Province be the recipient of the largest share of revenues from these resources. Mr. Speaker, as pointed out in the Speech from the Throne,this government is ahead of

schedule in its efforts to create jobs for our people. Since June 1979, 19,000 have been created. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. STEWART: At this rate government's commitment of 40,000 new jobs will be reached long before the original target date. This has been made possible, Mr. Speaker, in large measure, because of this government's policy of hiring >for offshore development- SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. STEWART: -and more importantly,our recent local preference policy for goods and services which stimulate local industry and local businesses and hence create new jobs.

Our employment rate has dropped 2 per cent since this government assumed office. Mr. Speaker, as pointed out in the major document last Fall entitled ~anaging All Qf ~2sources the main aim and ultimate goal of this government ·1 G ~ 2 ''I

March 23, 1981 Tape 573 PK - 2 MR. STEWART: is really a social one,to improve the lot of all our people. This government was willing to outline its plans and objectives for the future 1 for the next five years 1 in the document produced last Fall. Newfoundlanqers can judge in the next few years our progress and compare our achievements with our aims. Government expects that this report will encourage public participation in policy development and broaden public understanding of our development issues. Mr.

Speaker, our government is committed to plan and balance development, and to revitalization of our renewable resource base, particularly, our fishing industry, Provincial oil and gas control, and development will be an important means of building up the different economic strengtm of this Province, and as a means of improving living standards and social services from provincial revenues. We seek, Mr. Speaker, an equal place in the Canadian family, a ~ontributing province where we as a people will determine our future and lifestyle, and we will shape where w~ are going in the next decade.

We are on the threshold and we finally have the will and determination to ensure that our enthusiasm and our expectations become a reality for the benefit of all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Thank you. Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Mr. Baird): Order, please! Before I recognize the hon. member I am sure the House would like for me to welcome the Mayor of Pasadena, and the Town Manager, in the district of Humber Valley. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! G~l ' 'I ..

Narch 23, 1981 MR. SPEAKER (_Mr. Baird): Mary' s-th .e Capes. ivffi . HANCOCK: Tape 573 PK - 3 The hon. member for St. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Like the old saying goes, Mr. Speaker, 'The worse thing you can have in your head is nar a tooth,' and that is what I am like today. I will try to do the best I can, Mr. Speaker. MR. MORGAN: MR. HANCOCK: You lost them playing hockey. I never lost them yesterday playing hockey, no, Mr. Speaker. The Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) could not catch me. I would like to make a few brief remarks, Mr. Speaker, on the not so gracious Speech from the Throne .

I would like to , first of all, congratulate - and it is something that has not been done by too many members speaking, I do know if they felt they have not done a good joe, I would like to congratulate the mover and the seconder of the Speech from the Throne. I think one guy has been here for two terms,and the other, the member for Burgee-Bay d'Espoir (Mr. Andrews), it is his first and his last. And the seconder, the same can be said for him - MR. NEARY: That is right. MR. HANCOCK: - and several other members on the opposite side as well. MR.

NEARY: He has not made his maiden speech , he will make his farewell speech. MR. HANCOCK: I would say , Mr. Speaker, that the two of them will be combined. Now, Mr. Speaker, there are a few remarks I would like to make, first of all, about the district which I represent. Representing a district that has been neglected in the past like the district of ·1 G 2 I, .. , .., ''I

March 23 , 1981 Tape 573 PK - 4 MR . H.l\NCOCK : St . ~~ry ' s - the Capes has been - non. members will laugh , yes, Mr . Speaker, - $17 million ~.,rent in there since this Tory administration took office and , ... e need about $700 million to complete the road work and upgrace existing facilities that we have in that district . ~~d ! fi~d it very offending that m~~ers should laugh, Mr . Spea~er, at the way that that district has been treated in the past , especially since the Tory ., il ~ 5 ' I ~q .. ,, '11 ~11 "'~1

March 23, 1981 MR. HANCOCK: what? - eleven years ago. MR. NEARY: MR. HANCOCK: Tape No. 574 GS - 1 administration took power some - He has more miles of unpaved - Unpaved - yes, Mr. Speaker, it is the only district in this Province that has in excess of one hundred miles of dirt road and I was very disappointed, Mr. Speaker. One of the major disappointments since I got elected to the House of Assembly is when I tried some weeks ago to have the Minister of Transportation (Mr. Brett) include a

section of that road under a cost­ sharing program with the federal government. I would like to remind the minister at this time that if he does not feel that that road is a major loop road to the people of that area, then I would like for the minister to explain to me what is or why should that road be treated any differently than the roads that were done under a cost-sharing programme; the Baie Verte road, the Bonavista North road, the Burgeo road, the Bay d'Espoir highway - MR. NEARY: The road to resources. MR. HANCOCK: - roads to resources, Mr. Speaker, And we have resources in that area.

And the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) does not seem to give a damn what happens to the quality of fish that comes out of plants in Trepassey, St. Shott's, Riverhead, St. Mary's, Admiral's Beach, Branch, St. Bride's, and we have six or seven major fish plants in that area, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: MR. HANCOCK: How many million pounds? In 1978, as ttr. Smallwood would go on to say - and I want to take (inaudible) the House in this matter, Mr.

Speaker - he would say not one thousand, not two thousand '·Jut, in this case, not one million, not two million, but 2.1 million pounds of fish were landed at Branch in 1978, Mr. Speaker, one community alon~ and trucked 'I G 2G .. , ''I ''I

" March 23, 1981 Tape No. 574 GS - 2 MR. HANCOCK: over dirt roads. The only way to get out of that community is over sections of dirt road, Mr. Speaker. In 1979 there were two million pounds landed in Branch. There were 2.2 million pounds landed in 1980. In 1980, Mr. Speaker, 2.2 million pounds of fish trucked over sections of dirt road. In Trepassey last year alone, Mr. Speaker, there were approximately 8.6 million pounds of fish trucked out of that community, and I might add that that fish plant only operated for an eight-month period last year and the manager of that fish plant informed me that all of the fish trucked out of Trepassey carne over a sixteen mile

section of dirt road. And the same applies for St. Shott's, a small community on the Southern tip of the Avalon, Mr. Speaker, where- 2.6 million pounds of fish were trucked out of that community last year all over dirt roads. If that is not enough, Mr. Speaker, to include sections of that road on a cost-sharing program with the federal government, then I do not think the minister is doing his job by saying it is not a major trunk road in the Province. It is a major trunk road, Mr. Speaker.

It is the only access that the people of that area have to get to the resource, to get the resource landed and then to get the resource trucked to sections of the United States and other parts of Canada. MR. NEARY: Do you have any indication if Ottawa will look at on that favourably? MR. HANCOCK: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I have and I might add at this time, also, that I have found Ottawa, quite contrary to what the government officials have been saying, very helpful to me. Everything I have requested, and I have made several trips to Ottawa looking for funds for my district, and I must say I have ·1 G ~ 7 .. , ''I ''I

March 23, 1981 Tape No. 574 GS - 3 MR. HANCOCK: every indication that they will co-operate and they have co-operated in the past. MR. NEARY: 'Crosbie' does not like that. MR. HANCOCK: No, he does not like it, Mr. Speaker. He does not like it when somebody goes over his head no matter what it is for, whether it is to get something for a

section of his riding that he thinks is Liberal or Liberal workers around that worked on my campaign. He does not like it. No, Mr. Speaker, he does not like for anybody to go over his head, but he is going to have to come down in the next couple of years, Mr. Speaker, because everything I- intend to go after in that district will go over Mr. Crosbie's head to try and bring improvements to whatever part or

section of that district that I feel ne~ds improvement) Mr. Speaker. And if Mr. Crosbie does not like it, like I said to him some time ago, I said that is tough for Mr. Crosbie, but I will work with the man, Mr. Speaker, in any way, shape or form that I can to try and bring improvements to that district. I think that is my first obligation to the people of that district and I will work with anyone that I can work with to try and bring improvements. It is quite the contrary on the other hand, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: There is every indication that Ottawa could help on the road probably. MR. HANCOCK: Yes, Mr.

Speaker, there is every indication that they will help. They have informed me that they would get involved but, first of all, they cannot get involved until this bunch of - I must not call them 'idiots', Mr. Speaker, I do not think it would be an appropriate word - but this MR. NEARY: Incompetent. •j J ~ Q ., •·; .. ,

~larch 23, 1981 Tape No . 574 GS - 4 .. , MR. ar._'lCOCK: - incompetenc go vernment over here requests funds from Ottawa , l-1r . Speaker. That is an unwritten rule, that the federal government will not get involved in any trunk roads or any major roads in this Province until first of all the provincial government requests funds for the roads. And if any member over there cannot get !unding for his district, canno t negociace wich Otcawa, ., Mr. Speaker, that is his problem. My first priority lies wi~~ the district of St.

Mary 's - The Capes and I will ~ and get what I can out of the provincial government and out of Ottawa cc bring improvements that a.re needed to that di strict . But for some reason, Mr . Speaker, whether it •• 1 .. ·~l ·1 G ~ 8 .,

Marc11- 23, 1981, Tape.. 575, Page~ ~- apb MR. HANCOCK: Mr. Speaker, whether it be political or otherwise - if they told me it was political I would resign my seat tomorrow and they could have another by-election so another member could try and bring the necessary improvements to that district. That is how much I am committed, Mr. Speaker, to seeing improvements come to that district. It is not for money that I got into this racket, Mr. Speaker, I can tell you. MR. NEARY: So Ottawa might be prepared to put some money in but the Province will not make the application. MR.

HANCOCK: The Province will not request funding. Mr. Speaker, I pity the candidate that runs against me in the next election - MR. NEARY: Right on! MR. HANCOCK: - if I ever decide to run again, Mr. Speaker. Politics is not exactly what I am cut out for, I do not think, because I am not the type of individual who likes criticizing just for the sake of criticizing, Mr. Speaker, I like constructive criticism. Probably I do not criticize enough, but I do not think you get things that way, I just call the shots the wav I see them. If the people in my district do not like it then, the next time around, Mr.

Speaker, they know what they can do. But I have more confidence in my district than some hon. members will give me credit for. As a matter of fact, I am not afraid of anybody running. I think the number one man in the Tories' eyes in this Province, Mr. Speaker, is the Premier of this Province. The Premier carne down the last time I ran and he ordered his candidate horne. He took over the election for the last nine days and he could not defeat me, Mr. Speaker, so who in the heck are they going to put down there who is going to defeat me? Could you tell me, Mr. Speaker? 'I ""'' ,...1 rl I U 0 1_! .. '

March 23, 1981, Tape 575, Page 2 -- apb MR. NEARY: Even though he said he was sitting on the chest. MR. HANCOCK: But that does not work anymore, Mr. Speaker, you can sit on what chest you like but you cannot bribe people. Newfoundlanders are not as green as they used to be one time, they are more mature, they are more outspoken, more outgoing people, and the minute that the Premier said that he was sitting on the chest - MR. NEARY: That was a challenge to them then. MR. HANCOCK: - and that they would not get any funds South of the Trans-Canada Highway if they did not vote Tory, Mr. Speaker, that was it.

Up she goes! Hancock had her won. I could have, from that day on, Mr. Speaker, sat down in my office and made a few phone. calls and relaxed, but no I went out, I wanted to meet as many people as I could. MR. NEARY: Right on! MR. HANCOCK: I am not afraid of the next election, Mr. Speaker. Unlike certain members opposite, I would challenge anybody to come down and try to take that seat away from me, as I say, if I decide to run again. I do not know what I am going to do in two years time - MR. NEARY: You will run again, 'boy'. MR. HANCOCK: - but it all depends, Speaker. MR.

NEARY: You would make a good minister in the new government (inaudible). MR. HANCOCK: Mr. Speaker, I cannot understand - I was looking up something here in the 333. I am surely disappointed. Mr. Smallwood assured me sometime ago that he would have the 666 ready sometime early in the year, but I guess it is not the time yet - ·1 G 3 1 Mr. 'I •·, •·,

March 23, 1981, Tape 575, Page 3 -- apb l'L~. HANCOCK: MR. NEARY: the way. MR. HANCOCK: - I cannot understand - He is working on it, by He is working on it, yes . There is a

section here under Transportation, Mr. Speaker, Transportation and Communications where the Liberal Government - and then there are hard times, Mr. Speaker, from '49 until Mr. Smallwood, I would not say resigned, until the people asked him to resign - built 6,000 miles of dirt road. They built their share of St. Mary's - The Capes. ~~. MORGAN: (Inaudible) . MR. HANCOCK: There goes the hoof and mouth disease, Mr. Speaker. He is getting as bad as Mr. Crosbie, he only opens his mouth long enough to change feet. MR. MORGAN: (inaudible). MR. HANCOCK: had its share of road work done, MR. MORGAN: MR.

NEARY: ) up to you to pave them. MR. MORGAN: MR. HANCOCK: St. Mary's -The Capes St. Mary's - The Capes yes, Mr. Speaker. (Inaudible). We built them, now it is (Inaudible). The roads were built, Mr. Speaker. The fact of the matter is - MR. MORGAN: (Inaudible). MR. NEARY: We built them all, now you pick them up. MR. SPEAKER(Butt): Order, please! MR. HANCOCK: If we could have the han. Maw Mouth shut up, Mr. Speaker, I might get through this. MR. MORGAN: A fact is a fact. You are afraid of the facts. MR. HANCOCK: I am not afraid of no facts, Mr. Speaker, including the minister, if he considers 1Gj2 ''I ''I 'I

~arch 23, 1981, Tape 575, Page 4 -- apb MR. HA NCOCK: himself a fact. He is not a very big factor in any organization, especially in this government. ~lR. NEARY: Right on. MR. HA NCOCK: It just goes to show what respect the Premierandthis Province had for the fishing industry when they put the hon. Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan) head of it. HR. NE.l\.RY: .)1R. F..ANCOCK: Right on! It makes you wonder, Mr. Speaker, what we are headed for. MR. NEARY: Right on! ~lR . HANCOCK: But, Mr. Speaker, in the hardest ti