First Session, 43rd Parliament

Official Report

of Debates

( Hansard )

Thursday, April 10, 2025

Morning Sitting

Issue No. 39

The Honourable Raj Chouhan , Speaker

ISSN 1499-2175

The HTML transcript is provided for informational purposes only.

The PDF transcript remains the official digital version.

Contents

Routine Business

Tributes

Teresa Scambler

Hon. David Eby

Introductions by Members

Statements

Victoria Royals Hockey Team

Darlene Rotchford

Introductions by Members

Introduction and First Reading of Bills

Bill M209 — Tax Relief and Tariff Defence Act

Dallas Brodie

Bill M210 — Korean Heritage Month Act

Paul Choi

Members’ Statements

Chilliwack Youth Health Centre

Á’a:líya Warbus

Passover

Nina Krieger

Giving Hearts Gala and Langley Community Health Foundation

Harman Bhangu

Indigenous Nurses Day

Debra Toporowski / Qwulti’stunaat

Importance of History and Values in Reconciliation

Rob Botterell

Upper Room Mission Fundraiser and Work in North Okanagan

Harwinder Sandhu

Oral Questions

FIFA World Cup Tickets and MLA s

Trevor Halford

Hon. Spencer Chandra Herbert

Government Action on Antisemitism and Response to Issues

Claire Rattée

Hon. Ravi Kahlon

Hon. Niki Sharma

Mental Health Crisis Response Services

Rob Botterell

Hon. Garry Begg

Taylor Bridge Replacement and Government Policy on Infrastructure Tolling Revenues

Jordan Kealy

Hon. Mike Farnworth

Government Action on Poverty Reduction

Sheldon Clare

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson

Ian Paton

Kristina Loewen

Korky Neufeld

Reann Gasper

Scott McInnis

Jody Toor

Donegal Wilson

Á’a:líya Warbus

Question of Privilege (Speaker’s Ruling)

Question of Privilege (Reservation of Right)

Trevor Halford

Orders of the Day

Motions Without Notice

Schedule for House Adjournment

Hon. Mike Farnworth

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Health (continued)

Jeremy Valeriote

Hon. Josie Osborne

Statements

Clarification of Motion to Adjourn the House

Hon. Brenda Bailey

Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Forests (continued)

Ward Stamer

Hon. Ravi Parmar

Thursday, April 10, 2025

The House met at 10:03 a.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Routine Business

Prayers and reflections: Heather Maahs.

Tributes

Teresa Scambler

Hon. David Eby : I’m looking up in the gallery, and I see a special guest who’s here with us today.

Teresa Scambler has worked for government in one way or another since 1992, and tomorrow

is her last day in the Legislature. She has been a public servant. She worked for

many ministries: Ministry of Forests and the then Ministry of Aboriginal Affairs.

She was in the Premier’s office. She has been working for the NDP caucus since 2007,

through many, many opposition years.

[10:05 a.m.]

My office was directly across from her desk, and on day one, she reminded me of my

obligation to keep my door open so that she had good air flow. I knew immediately

who was running the office.

She has dedicated her professional career to the people of British Columbia. I want

to thank her, and her family for sharing her with us. She has, for the last few years,

been running events for the Deputy Speaker’s office through the Legislative Assembly

— many, many different community groups coming through, getting access to MLAs. We

would not be where we are today without her incredible efforts.

Would the House please join me in thanking Teresa for working for the people of British

Columbia for so long, so effectively, and wish her luck in retirement.

Introductions by Members

Harman Bhangu : We have a special someone here in the gallery today: my daughter, Audriana. It’s

her fifth birthday. She was born five years ago, right when the whole pandemic was

starting, and she’s been a shining light for me and my family.

I know a lot of you, on the other side, when you get home, you see the little ones

with the big smiles. It just warms up your heart. It doesn’t matter what the day is,

how down you are. It just brightens up your day.

I would like you to give her a warm welcome and wish her a happy birthday.

Hon. Josie Osborne : Joining us in the House today is Mike Lowe, the director of partner engagement at

the Vancouver Island Health Authority.

A lot of Mike’s work involves dealing with constituency offices around the Vancouver

Island Health Authority region, and he makes sure that people have the information

and resources needed to support their constituents. I want to thank him for his work

and support.

Would the House please join me in making him feel very welcome today.

Gavin Dew : I would like to welcome to the House an old friend, Parksville city councillor Joel

Grenz, who I met 20 years ago when both of us were way cooler. I was in an indie rock

band and he was playing guitar in a rock band called A Sheep at the Wheel.

Alongside Joel is Coun. Sean Wood, who sits on the regional district of Nanaimo board

in addition to his duties in Parksville.

Please make them both feel very welcome.

Hon. Laanas / Tamara Davidson : I’m grateful to have several members of the B.C. Parks Foundation joining us today

in the gallery.

We have Ross Beaty, board chair; Andrew Day, CEO; Jennie McCaffrey, vice-president,

health and education; Kate LeSouef, vice-president of programs; Kaaren Lewis, vice-president,

conservation; Cohen Bradley, director of Indigenous initiatives; and Sid Venkatesh,

community projects manager.

I’m excited that we will be joining them for lunch later today and look forward to

talking about the great work they do to protect and conserve our beautiful province,

making sure everyone can enjoy our wonderful B.C. parks and protected areas now and

into the future.

Can the House please make them feel welcome.

Misty Van Popta : In the House today is my fiancé, Lawrence, the best man I know.

Now, he’s here from California. To quote the Premier at the Invictus Games, “our countries

are having a moment,” but rest assured in our house, things are very peaceful, if

not full of interesting conversations and perspectives.

If you see him in the precinct today, if you can be extra kind, extra hospitable,

extra Canadian. In September, I would like to import him tariff-free.

Nina Krieger : Joining us in the gallery today are representatives from the Victoria Brain Injury

Society, executive director Pam Prewett and marketing and communications specialist

Anthony Wheeler.

The society does incredible work to increase community awareness and reduce harmful

stigma, providing support, education, advocacy and housing assistance to brain injury

survivors and their families.

The Minister of Forests and I had the opportunity to attend their annual gala recently,

where they raised an incredible $128,000 to support their vital mission.

Please join me in making them feel very welcome.

[10:10 a.m.]

Trevor Halford : I just want to echo the introduction done by the Minister of Parks. We had a great

breakfast this morning with the fine folks at the B.C. Parks Foundation.

I want to give them a warm welcome and look forward to continuing to work with them

in the future.

Statements

Victoria Royals Hockey Team

Darlene Rotchford : I just wanted to give a shout-out in the House.

The Victoria Royals, our WHL team, have made it on to the second round of playoffs.

As a past billet mom and as many billet parents within my riding of Esquimalt-Colwood,

I want to thank the people who support these young men to get where they need to be

every day and wish them good luck against Spokane on this upcoming Sunday.

Introductions by Members

Susie Chant : Well, somewhere on the precinct but not quite here is a group of grade 11 students

and their teacher, Bryan, from the Performance learning program at Seycove Secondary

School in North Vancouver. In this innovative and rigorous program, students and teachers

strive to connect classroom studies with experiences beyond the school walls.

The group that is with us today has come to Victoria for study and dialogue related

to their learning about reconciliation with Indigenous people in B.C.

I ask that this House make them feel very welcome indeed, and I’ll be waving vigorously

when they get here.

Stephanie Higginson : I’m going to echo the introduction by the member for Kelowna-Mission — the two councillors

in the House from the city of Parksville, which is actually in my riding, Sean Wood

and Joel Grenz, who I met during the campaign.

Actually, before the campaign, soon after I was nominated, the city of Parksville

councillors showed their great service to their community by introducing themselves

to me within days of getting the nomination and finding out how I was going to make

things better for the city of Parksville.

They will be in the House and around the precinct today. Please, if you see them,

thank them for their service. It’s a very, very tough job to be a local government

council member.

Would the members please help me make them feel welcome today.

Hon. Spencer Chandra Herbert : Well, it is, of course, Tourism Week. We can also make it tourism month, tourism

year, tourism decade, but I get ahead of myself.

I’m excited to introduce to the House the chair of the Tourism Industry Association

of B.C., J.J. Belanger, also the general manager for the beautiful Crystal Cove in

Tofino; and Paula Amos with Indigenous Tourism B.C. She’s the chief marketing officer

and the development officer.

They are in the House. They’re joining us for Tourism Week.

I would ask the House to please make them very, very welcome.

Introduction and

First Reading of Bills

Bill M209 — Tax Relief

and Tariff Defence Act

Dallas Brodie presented a bill intituled Tax Relief and Tariff Defence Act.

Dallas Brodie : I move that a bill intituled Tax Reduction and Tariff Defence Act, of which notice

has been given in my name on the order paper, be introduced and read a first time

now.

This is a critical moment in British Columbia’s history. We are a great province,

built by hard-working people. Our abundant natural resources are the envy of the world.

But the world is changing. These are perilous times. Tariffs, duties and trade disputes

are increasing costs and uncertainty. Individuals and businesses need their government

to defend them now. This bill will do just that.

This bill protects British Columbia from the effects of tariffs, disputes with adversarial

jurisdictions and other economic challenges by (1) providing immediate and significant

income tax relief to every British Columbian; and (2) addressing procedural obstacles

to the development of natural resources, the building of public infrastructure and

economic advancement within British Columbia.

I urge the members of this House to vote in favour of the introduction of this bill.

The Speaker : Members, the question is the first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

Dallas Brodie : I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the

next sitting of the House after today.

Motion approved.

[10:15 a.m.]

Bill M210 — Korean Heritage

Month Act

Paul Choi presented a bill intituled Korean Heritage Month Act.

Paul Choi : I move that a bill intuited the Korean Heritage Month Act, of which notice has been

given in my name on the order paper, be introduced and read for a first time now.

This bill will establish the month of October as Korean heritage month in British

Columbia.

The Korean community has had a significant impact on our province. There are more

than 72,000 people of Korean descent in B.C.

In 1998, with the opening of Hannam Supermarket, the area now known as Korea-town

began to take shape along North Road in Burquitlam. It is now a thriving centre for

business, culture and community.

October is chosen as Korean heritage month because October 3 marks National Foundation

Day. This day celebrates the legendary formation of the first Korean state, Gojoseon.

It is traditionally considered the date of the creation of the modern Korean state.

Today B.C. and Korea enjoy a strong relationship and extensive business connections.

In 2023, the Premier signed an enhanced action plan agreement with our sister province,

Gyeonggi province, to strengthen cooperation on clean tech and clean energy to address

climate change.

As Parliamentary Secretary for Asia-Pacific Trade, I recognize that it is now more

important than ever that we nurture these relationships.

This bill would provide all British Columbians with an opportunity to celebrate the

achievements and contributions of Korean Canadians and strengthen the bond of friendship

between B.C. and Korea.

The Speaker : Members, the question is first reading of the bill.

Motion approved.

Paul Choi : I move that the bill be placed on the orders of the day for second reading at the

first sitting of the House after today.

Motion approved.

Members’ Statements

Chilliwack Youth Health Centre

Á’a :líya Warbus : I rise today to celebrate and talk about the incredible mental health services offered

by the Chilliwack Youth Health Centre.

The centre has been serving the community of Chilliwack for over ten years, providing

free counselling, medical appointments and social services to youth aged 12 to 26. The organization is a pillar of hope and support for our children, province and

future. In 2023, the centre served 3,750 youth, with 22 percent identifying as Indigenous.

The Chilliwack Youth Health Centre offers key experience as a learning centre for

interns ranging from the certificate level to the doctorate level, earning them recognition

from the Health Standards Organization for their impactful, intern-led supervision

model.

The centre meets youth where they are at, with three locations in Chilliwack working

in conjunction with partner organizations Ann Davis Transition services, the YMCA

and B.C. Schizophrenia, as well as counsellors working in six different locations.

The Chilliwack Youth Health Centre is wide-reaching. I’m so proud of their hard work,

dedication and compassion.

It’s important that our youth know we care about them and that we are all here to

support them. The Chilliwack Youth Health Centre has been operating on a shoestring

budget, and they have dreams of expanding their critical work.

Unfortunately, they find themselves in a difficult position. The amount they need

is the difference between maintaining operations at their current level or forcing

them to scale down the services that many youth in our province rely on. Potentially,

they face the risk of closure.

It is my hope that others in this assembly recognize the important work taking place

by the Chilliwack Youth Health Centre and will join me in finding a meaningful solution

for all of the young people in Chilliwack.

Passover

Nina Krieger : As the sun sets this Saturday, Jewish communities in British Columbia and around

the world will gather around the Seder table in observance of Passover. During this

special meal that includes symbolic foods, prayer and song, families and friends will

tell the story of the Israelites’ journey from slavery to freedom, in Egypt. The Haggadah,

the book used to guide the Seder, contains the directive that, in every generation,

a person is obligated to see themselves as if they left Egypt.

This powerful idea is explored by writer Dara Horn, best known for her volume of essays

People Love Dead Jews , in her newest book, a graphic novel with another provocative title, One Little Goat: A Passover Catastrophe .

[10:20 a.m.]

A young boy escapes a seemingly endless Passover Seder in the company of a talking

goat, who takes him through space and time to Seder tables of historically iconic

Jews, including Sigmund Freud, the 16th-century philanthropist Dona Nasi, and the

Talmudic tag team known as Rav and Shmuel.

Horne captures something profound felt at Passover, the understanding that the same

retelling of Exodus is being carried out by Jews across the world and that this retelling

has taken place year after year across millennia.

Current events inevitably shape discussions about freedom that take place around the

Seder table, often late into the night. It is impossible to avoid the history of the

persecution of Jewish people, which continues to this day.

But this is only part of the Passover story, which at its heart is about how Jews

lived and how they survived. It is a story of remarkable resilience and of enduring

tradition and values passed from generation to generation.

I wish all those who observe a happy and meaningful Passover.

Chag Pesach sameach.

Giving Hearts Gala and Langley

Community Health Foundation

Harman Bhangu : Hon. Speaker, I rise today to recognize an extraordinary event that continues to

make a lasting impact on health care in the community of Langley, the Giving Hearts

Gala.

This year marked the sixth annual gala, held on April 4 at the Mirage Banquet Hall, organized by the Langley Community Health Foundation.

The event brought together over 250 generous attendees and community-minded individuals,

raising an incredible $331,000 in a single night.

These funds support the newly established Guru Nanak Endowment Fund, which aims to

raise $1 million over the next five years to meet urgent needs at Langley Memorial

Hospital. Inspired by the spirit of selfless service, this fund will provide long-term,

reliable resources to improve critical care for patients in our growing region.

Since its inception in 2019, the Giving Hearts Gala has now raised over $1.8 million,

a truly remarkable contribution. This generosity has helped fund projects like the

Martini Family Emergency Centre, mobility equipment for seniors and specialized bassinets

for newborns.

I would also like to thank Peter Fassbender and Heather Scott from the Langley Community

Health Foundation — they do some incredible work — and also Balraj Mann and Mangit

Gill, who serve on the board for the Giving Hearts Gala.

As MLA for Langley-Abbotsford, I am proud to acknowledge their outstanding contributions,

which will benefit residents across our riding for generations to come.

Indigenous Nurses Day

Debra Toporowski / Qwulti’stunaat : Today is Indigenous Nurses Day and a day for us to acknowledge and honour and celebrate

Indigenous nurses for their incredible contributions to health care and their tireless

dedication to the people they care for.

We recognize the unique knowledge, experience and determination of generations of

Indigenous nurses who have advanced Indigenous health care. Indigenous nurses are

a critical part of our health care system, providing culturally safe and appropriate

care to people in communities across the province. The invaluable contributions they

make are essential to the further development of improving the quality of life and

well-being and healthy outcomes for Indigenous Peoples in B.C.

This day is an opportunity to recognize the work we’re doing to dismantle harmful

colonial practices and systems. We continue to move forward on commitments to provide

Indigenous-specific, culturally safe, trauma-informed practices, anti-racism in our

health care system, upholding the In Plain Sight report and B.C.’s health human resources strategies. It is with deep gratitude that

we celebrate the achievements and contributions of Indigenous nurses.

I want to stop to shout out to my niece Rebecca White, who is in her fourth year,

in a practicum, and will be placed next week.

This is a day for Indigenous nurses and their allies to come together and to preserve

the cultural integrity and traditional knowledge they hold and recognize their tenacity,

courage and activism to meet the health care needs of Indigenous peoples.

[10:25 a.m.]

Thank you to all the Indigenous nurses for their amazing work and for ensuring access

to integral, trauma-informed, culturally safe health care for all.

Importance of History and

Values in Reconciliation

Rob Botterell : Before I begin, I want to acknowledge that we’re meeting today on the ancestral,

traditional and stolen territory of the lək̓ʷəŋən -speaking peoples.

On the first day of this legislative session, Elder Mary Ann Thomas opened this House

in a good way, also with some uncomfortable truths about our shared history. On that

day, Mary Ann Thomas relayed how she was sent to residential school. She said her

long hair was cut short, she was hit, and her head was put in a toilet bowl. She said

she shares these stories because: “I’m speaking for the ones that don’t have a voice.”

We don’t record and study history because it’s pleasant. We keep history alive because

it helps us understand each other. As members of this Legislative Assembly, it is

our responsibility to be leaders and ambassadors for the right way of doing things,

to demonstrate through our words and our actions, ʔiisaak , one of Huu-ay-aht First Nations’ sacred principles, which means “conducting yourself

with utmost respect.”

This big House in which we do our work has meaning collectively because we give it

meaning. Every day, we uphold a shared set of values. Every day, we stand against

racism, discrimination, denialism and the re-victimization of residential school survivors.

Our symbols and traditions give this place power and a presence in the lives of all

British Columbians.

It is this responsibility, of every single one of us, that we hold each other accountable

to uphold our shared values every single day of every year.

Upper Room Mission Fundraiser

and Work in North Okanagan

Harwinder Sandhu : I rise today with a full heart to shine a light on a truly special event happening

in Vernon: An Evening in Paris, the Upper Room Mission’s annual spring fundraising

gala taking place this Saturday at our beloved Coldstream Hall, which our government

proudly funded along with 84 child care spaces.

This isn’t just a night of elegance and charm; it’s a celebration of compassion, dignity

and community. It is an opportunity for us to come together not just to enjoy the

romance of the evening but also to uplift the lives of those who need the most.

Since 1980, the Upper Room Mission has stood as a pillar of hope for Vernon and North

Okanagan. Whether it’s a hot meal, a clean shower, warm clothing or a listening ear,

the Mission meets people where they are without judgment, with open hearts. Their

work reminds us that kindness is not just a gesture, but it is a lifeline.

Beyond the essential services, Upper Room Mission Boutique Thrift Store beautifully

weaves in sustainability with generosity, proving that even a small purchase can be

an act of profound giving.

I have had the small privilege to support the Mission in small ways, like dropping

off water and electrolyte drinks during the scorching hot summers, connecting with

remarkable team, staff and volunteers and witnessing the strength and courage of those

they serve. Those moments have left a lasting impact on me, reminding me that true

community is built not just by what we say, but by how we show up for one another.

To Jacco de Vin, the executive director, and every single team member and volunteer:

thank you. Your passion and perseverance are changing lives.

To the donors who make this work possible: your generosity echoes far beyond what

you can see.

I invite you to be a part of this movement. Visit upperroommission.ca and join us

this Saturday, April 12, at An Evening in Paris.

Let’s celebrate, let’s give, and let’s continue to lift each other.

[10:30 a.m.]

Susie Chant : I seek leave to make a reintroduction.

Leave granted.

Introductions by Members

Susie Chant : The grade 11 students that I referenced earlier are now in the gallery, from Seycove

School.

I would like the House to make them very welcome.

Oral Questions

FIFA World Cup Tickets and MLA s

Trevor Halford : Will the Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport please name the MLAs that he

was referring to when he stated that he was asked directly for World Cup tickets?

Hon. Spencer Chandra Herbert : Well, conversations happen in the hallways with new members, and I don’t have any

intent of sharing their names and embarrassing them in front of the House. You know,

at that stage, it’s done.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Trevor Halford : What the minister said on April 8 was a serious allegation.

We have talked to all members on our side of this House regarding the Minister of

Tourism stating that he was asked directly for World Cup tickets. He said, on April 8: “I know not everybody on that side maybe supports soccer, but I do know some of

the members were asking me for tickets. I don’t have any tickets to give you, Members.

You’ll have to buy them, like the general public, when they become available.”

That leads us to two conclusions. Either this minister has chosen to mislead the House,

or those ticket requests are coming from his own caucus. Which is it?

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

Please continue.

Trevor Halford : Or the minister can get up in this House and name the MLAs that have asked him directly

for World Cup tickets.

Hon. Spencer Chandra Herbert : I have private conversations with members from all parties, but I don’t want to expose

the new members — on that side, I would say. Maybe the other option that the member

didn’t consider is that his caucus members haven’t been telling him the full truth.

Government Action on Antisemitism

and Response to Issues

Claire Rattée : Antisemitism is not a joke. Racism is never acceptable, and it must never be normalized.

A newly elected Vancouver councillor has made deeply troubling statements, including

invoking antisemitic tropes and mocking Jewish identity by referring to a secret cabal

of Jews. In response to someone saying they wanted the destruction of both Israel

and Canada, he replied: “Me too, son. Me too.”

Will the Premier finally step up as a leader and repudiate Sean Orr for these vile

antisemitic statements?

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : I want to thank the member for the question as well as the statement that was made

yesterday in this House.

We know that the comments…. I’m hearing from people, directly, that the comments made

by this new councillor have caused real hurt and pain for many within the Jewish community.

The community has been feeling a lot of fear over the last few years, in particular

with the rise of antisemitism-related incidents.

We, of course, stand against hate and racism and antisemitism. We’ve said that many

times. The member will perhaps not know, but we created an independent human rights

commission in British Columbia to address that very core question. We work closely

with the Jewish community on that.

Interjections.

Hon. Ravi Kahlon : I don’t know why this needs to be heckled. This is an important topic.

We’re going to continue to work with the community. Of course, this councillor will

have to respond and address the harms that his comments have made, but I’ll leave

it to that councillor to do that.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Claire Rattée : With all due respect, my question was for the Premier, and my question was about

repudiating those specific comments.

Sean Orr isn’t the only person who has an antisemitism problem. As we learned from

former NDP cabinet minister Selina Robinson, the NDP and the B.C. public service have

a systemic antisemitism problem. Members of the British Columbia Jewish community

should not be singled out for hate by their government or their elected representatives.

What actions is this Premier taking to root out systemic antisemitism, identified

by his former minister, besides just setting up a hotline?

[10:35 a.m.]

Hon. Niki Sharma : We have stood up, in unprecedented ways, to stop the rise of antisemitism and hate

in this province. That goes as far as putting direct resources to community members,

setting up safe zones around schools and launching a racist incident helpline, which

has received more than 600 calls, where people can call and receive resources and

referrals when they’re experiencing hate.

We all have to stand together to condemn the rise of antisemitism in this province

and in the world. We stand with the Jewish people in fighting against antisemitism.

I’ll continue to do everything I can as Attorney General to make sure our systems

are tooled up to respond and continue to meet with the community to make sure that

we are responding to their needs.

This is a very serious issue, and it is something we take very seriously.

The Speaker : Member for Prince George–North Cariboo.

Sheldon Clare : This year British Columbia received….

The Speaker : Sorry, Member. I skipped again.

Third Party House Leader.

Mental Health Crisis

Response Services

Rob Botterell : The report on reforming the Police Act recommended improving the province’s response

to mental health emergencies. When a crisis occurs, we must use an appropriate response.

A mental health crisis does not often fit into the existing options of police, fire

or ambulance. Adding a mental health option to 911, as recommended by the Police Act

Committee and the Canadian Mental Health Association, would vastly improve the well-being

and safety of British Columbians.

To the Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General: will you create a fourth option

to 911 that is dedicated to responding to mental health calls with the appropriate

level of response?

Hon. Garry Begg : Thank you to the member opposite for his question.

He is correct. The Committee on Reforming the Police Act has examined at length an

option when you call 911 for mental health to be identified. That is something that

currently is underway. In the near future, I expect that there will be a determination

made that will satisfy his question.

The Speaker : Member, supplemental.

Rob Botterell : Since the year 2000, there have been more than 800 deaths in Canada due to police

use of force.

Black and Indigenous people comprise less than 9 percent of Canada’s population but

account for over 27 percent of police-involved shooting deaths. Many of these victims

were experiencing a mental health crisis at the time of their death. These deaths

were preventable.

Peer-assisted care teams have had a demonstrable impact in the communities where they

are operational, showing that there is a path forward for non-police emergency response.

To the Minister of Public Safety: when will your government modernize emergency mental

health response by expanding peer-assisted care teams across the province?

Hon. Garry Begg : The member opposite raises an important question about policing and how it is enacted

in this province.

On the Committee on Reforming the Police Act, one of the things we looked at was various

responses that are not police-related, things that very clearly from the outset do

not have their base in criminal activity.

You will be pleased to know, Member, that the conditions that govern police, as they

relate to responding to persons with mental illnesses, have been adjusted all across

the country so that one of the things they consider first is whether or not the base

is a mental health issue.

Now, various jurisdictions across the country, including in British Columbia, have

made allowances, and we do have, today, peer-assisted teams at work throughout the

province.

[10:40 a.m.]

Taylor Bridge Replacement

and Government Policy on

Infrastructure Tolling Revenues

Jordan Kealy : My fellow MLA did quite the little ditty on Tuesday in regard to our failing infrastructure

system, and it rang true. He sang about the Taylor Bridge falling down. The actual

name of this bridge is the Peace River Bridge. Did you know the original bridge did

fall down in 1957?

Massive payloads go over this bridge every day as we move our vast resources to support

the large wealth and revenue of British Columbia. We need this critical bridge to

be replaced with a new one that is capable of handling British Columbia’s essential

trade goods.

The people of my region have been promised a new bridge for over 20 years, and still

we have holes in the bridge decking over and over. The bridge has been fixed so many

times that it is probably more weld-repair than original steel.

Can the minister finally give a deadline for the constituents of the Peace region

of when the construction of a new four-lane bridge will begin before history repeats

itself? Then it could be named the “Farny Bridge Is Falling Down.”

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I thank the member for the question.

I can tell him that we recognize, obviously, the importance of the Taylor Bridge,

in terms of its importance to his region of the province, but indeed the province’s

transportation system as a whole.

I can tell him that there is work underway, in terms of what the long-term options

are around the bridge. There is significant work, in terms of looking at three phases,

in terms of the structural assessment around the current bridge. There will be additional

work being done later this year.

I have met with the member from Peace River South, for example, who has also come

to see me to talk about the importance of the bridge. The previous MLA from Peace

River North had also been working with me in the past, in terms of how this bridge

needs to be replaced.

What we are ensuring is that it continues to be safe and is inspected on a regular

basis, but the work that is required so that we can get to the point of deciding what

the best option, in terms of replacing it is and what we should look at, is currently

underway.

The Speaker : Member, before the member asks a supplemental question, just a reminder: no names

to be said in the question.

Member, supplemental.

Jordan Kealy : My apologies, Mr. Speaker.

I think when it comes to the song that I would pick, it would probably be Garth Brooks’s

“I’ve got friends in low places,” because taxpayers are being driven into poverty.

We need to actually start doing the major infrastructure upgrades necessary for our

province to flourish and become self-sufficient and get rid of the trade barriers

across Canada. This has to be done for B.C. to go forward, not focus on pulling Kentucky

bourbon off of the shelves.

Will the Premier commit that, if tolls, fees and levies are applied, the money will

be used to pay for critical and vital infrastructure upgrades across British Columbia

and not just be used as a slush fund of broken promises to British Columbians?

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I can tell the hon. member that when it comes to infrastructure in this province,

this government is currently in the minus more than $15 billion in terms of transportation

infrastructure across British Columbia.

The member talks about the Peace River. We recognize the importance of that. More

than $188 million has been invested since we have been in power, and $29 million has

gone into ensuring that the planning work and work that needs to take place around

the Taylor Bridge has been underway. There will be further announcements on that in

the not too distant future — in the near future, Prince George–Mackenzie, in fact.

We know the importance of the Taylor Bridge to British Columbia. It will need to be

replaced. What I can tell you right now is that we are starting the work to ensure

that, when it’s replaced, it meets the needs of a growing province, it meets the needs

of a province that wants to diversify trade and it meets the needs of not just British

Columbia but ten provinces and three territories.

That’s what this government is committed to doing.

[10:45 a.m.]

The Speaker : Member for Prince George–North Cariboo.

Government Action on

Poverty Reduction

Sheldon Clare : Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Glad to be back again.

This year British Columbia received an F for poverty, an F for housing and an F for

government support from Food Banks Canada.

Why does the Minister of Poverty Reduction continue to claim progress when every independent

measure shows her ministry is failing across the board?

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : We are very concerned about the impacts of global inflation and now the extra threat

of uncertainty created by tariffs and the impacts on people. We all hear and feel

the pressures on people every day.

What I will say, though, is that there was no poverty reduction strategy until this

government came into place. The social assistance rates were frozen for a decade when

the Leader of the Opposition was sitting at the cabinet table. We’ve increased rates

five times. We’ve increased minimum wage seven times after that. When the Leader of

the Opposition was in government, his Minister of Social Development removed the disability

bus pass from people with disabilities. We returned it. And the list goes on.

We have got a lot more work to do, but I’ll hold our record up against the Leader

of the Opposition’s any day.

Ian Paton : After 32 years in his home, Ken, an 86-year-old south Delta constituent of mine,

was evicted, given five minutes to gather what he could and left to sleep in his car.

He was denied income assistance because he owned the vehicle he was forced to sleep

in. This is how B.C. treats its seniors after a lifetime of work and contributing

to this economy.

How does the Social Development Minister justify a system that punishes struggling

seniors and abandons them completely?

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : That sounds like a terrible story, and I hope that the member will bring that directly

to my office so we can find out what happened.

After the age of 65, income supports are delivered by the federal government, not

the provincial government, but nevertheless, we are very concerned about seniors poverty.

We did double the seniors….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members.

Interjection.

The Speaker : Member. Member.

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : Excellent. I’m hearing the member yell that he has sent it to my office, and I will

get back to him this afternoon with what we found.

Again, I’ll say we have targeted poverty reduction, and we’ve been pushing the federal

government to add income supports. When the federal government supports for seniors

are inadequate, then we are doing our best to provide emergency supports for seniors.

If any members have got challenges, please do bring them to my office, and we’ll work

together.

Kristina Loewen : Low-income British Columbians are struggling to make ends meet, and the actions of

this NDP government are only making things worse. Income assistance in B.C. is $935

a month. Rentals.ca reported this morning that the average rent for a one-bedroom

in Vancouver is over $2,500.

How does this Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction expect anyone to

survive when government support doesn’t even cover half the rent?

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : We all feel, in every community, the impact of global inflation and, absolutely,

the impact of housing costs on people across every income level.

That’s why we’ve been investing so much both in building out affordable housing and

also, for example, just this week with the support of the Green Party, expanding the

SAFER and RAP grants to be able to apply rent relief to people in particularly high

markets.

We have increased the shelter rate twice already, under this government, for exactly

that reason. Importantly, although we’ve increased income assistance rates five times,

where the Leader of the Opposition’s government had frozen rates for a decade, we

also recognize that income assistance alone is not enough for people to live on.

[10:50 a.m.]

That’s why we’ve been working so hard to increase the earnings threshold, so that

people can add employment income, and through the work of our WorkBC centres and partners

across the province, supporting people who have been alienated from the workforce

so that they can earn employment income along with income assistance.

Korky Neufeld : Rather than supporting people living with disabilities, this NDP government is actively

holding them back. The income cutoff for disability assistance is a mere $19,440 for

a household per year — two people expected to survive on less than $1,620 a month

during an affordability crisis.

Does the Minister of Social Development seriously believe that’s enough for two people

with disabilities to live on in British Columbia with dignity?

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : Absolutely, the work that we have been doing as a government to build supports for

people living with disabilities has been at the centre of our work. That’s why we

increased rates for people with disabilities again, which the previous B.C. Liberal

government, the Leader of the Opposition, froze. Well, that’s why we have made five

increases to disability rates since 2017, the largest by any government in British

Columbia ever.

Since 2017, the rate for a single person is up 74 percent from where we found it when

we formed government. This year our budget invests another $1.6 billion over three

years to support expanded income disability assistance.

There is more for us to do, but our record of investing in people is clear, and we

will continue to do that work.

Reann Gasper : Children deserve our love, our support and our protection. But in British Columbia,

while children make up just 15 percent of the population, they are 30 percent of food

bank users.

Can this Social Development Minister explain how a government that claims to care

about kids allows one in three food bank users to be a hungry child?

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : What we hear is a deep need for people to have access to nutritious, affordable food

wherever they are. We absolutely have front-ended our investments into making sure

that children get their very best start.

Our work, that we funded directly through the United Way, to establish food hubs in

communities in all corners of the province has been a very important part of that

work, knitting together community response.

Especially encouraging is when I see the work of my ministry linking into the work

of the Ministry of Education and Child Care, for the first time, for our province

to have invested in school food programs, so that kids start their day with a good

meal.

It’s foundational. It’s work that has never been funded at this rate by any provincial

government in B.C., and the need has never been deeper.

Scott McInnis : The CEO at Community Living B.C. gets a $12,000 vehicle allowance on top of a $300,000

salary. All the while, families across B.C. are $200 away from not being able to pay

their bills every month.

Why is the Poverty Reduction Minister supporting luxury lifestyles while food banks

across this province are maxed out?

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : Which way to take the member’s question…?

The investments that we have made in expanding supports for adults with developmental

disabilities who are served by the Crown agency Community Living B.C. expanded again

this year, because people with disabilities are living longer. That is a good-news

story, but the caseload has increased.

The focus, absolutely…. Ninety-seven percent of the budget goes directly to people

that need supports, and we hear from families and adults with developmental disabilities

that they need more support.

[10:55 a.m.]

That’s why, again, this year’s budget has expanded by an additional $380 million over

three years to support the increase in clients supported by Community Living B.C.

We will continue to do that work.

Jody Toor : Mr. Speaker, 67 percent of youth aging out of care go to bed hungry; 90 percent can’t

afford three meals a day.

How does this Social Development Minister explain a system that lets young people

enter adulthood starving and in debt after growing up in government care?

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : The problem that the member names is exactly why British Columbia’s first homelessness

strategy invested very first in young people leaving foster care. I remember so clearly

the words of Premier Horgan saying that if children were removed from their families,

it’s our government’s responsibility to set them up in the very best way.

That’s why we’ve extended the age of majority for children to age 26. I’m looking

at the minister.

That’s exactly so that we can bridge in those ways so that young people have the very

best start. They have $600 more every month to go towards rent. This is the SAJE program.

That gives us an opportunity for kids leaving foster care to get connected with the

nutritious food, with the income supports, with free tuition that we’ve made available

at every college and university.

This is all work to have young people exiting care be on their very best step and

make life more affordable for them.

Donegal Wilson : Indigenous people in B.C. face poverty rates nearly twice the provincial average.

It’s even higher for children in our rural communities.

When will this Minister of Poverty Reduction start providing the basic supports Indigenous

families need to survive?

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : When we asked people across British Columbia as we rebuilt our poverty reduction

strategy, which was tabled in this House this year, we heard from people all across

the province, 70 percent of whom had direct lived experience with poverty. A significant

number were Indigenous people, and we did a completely separate Indigenous stream.

The advice that we got is built directly into our poverty reduction strategy.

We’re working with partners, meeting with leaders from across nations, from every

First Nation, to talk about how, between federal income support delivery and off-reserve,

off-Nation income support delivery, which comes from the province, we can work together

to get the very best connection.

We’re absolutely concerned, and working together with First Nations leadership, about

how we can build systems that are culturally informed and helping people change their

lives for the better.

Á’a :líya Warbus : I heard the minister reflect that they have launched a poverty reduction strategy

in 2019. But this government has had eight years, three mandates, two Premiers, and

all we’ve seen is a record number of food bank users across the province of British

Columbia.

We’re talking about a ministry that gives a CEO a $12,000 car allowance when I have

a constituent, Mary Jean — I hope that you’re watching — who suffered a stroke at

53 and was forced to return to work in excruciating pain just to survive. She lives

with her adult disabled son, who cannot work, and together they rely on two next-to-nothing

disability cheques — very careful, of course, for her hours as to not suffer clawbacks

on her limited income.

Since then, we’ve seen — all of the members on this side, and I’m sure the House could

agree — that food insecurity and housing has become unaffordable.

The Speaker : Question, Member.

Á’a :líya Warbus : My question is the same question that Mary Jean came to ask me in my office, and

that is: what is the purpose of government if it cannot support its most vulnerable,

and do she and her son have the human right to live?

[11:00 a.m.]

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : The people that are at the heart of this work, just as the member cites…. This is

exactly why we’re in government — to build the systems that combat the impacts….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Member.

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : They’re heckling. I haven’t even said three words already.

This is exactly what motivates our government. We see across the globe the impacts

of global inflation. We see people in every corner of the province, in every corner….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members, let her conclude.

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : Shall I wait for the members to stop heckling?

Interjections.

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : For goodness’ sake.

Okay, the member says we haven’t taken action. We’ve increased minimum wage seven

times. We have increased income assistance 74 percent.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Members.

Hon. Sheila Malcolmson : We have decreased….

Interjections.

The Speaker : Shhh, Members. Members will come to order.

Interjections.

The Speaker : Obviously, the opposition is not interested in listening to answers, so let’s end

the question period.

[End of question period.]

Question of Privilege

(Speaker’s Ruling)

The Speaker : Hon. Members, on Monday, April 7, the member for Kamloops Centre raised a question

of privilege respecting the ability of the official opposition to scrutinize the 2025-26

budget and main estimates before the House, particularly following the enactment of

Bill 8, intituled Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025, last week.

The Minister of Finance requested an opportunity to make representations to the Chair

on the matter and did so in the House on Tuesday, April 8.

The Chair thanks the member for Kamloops Centre and the Minister of Finance for their

submissions. The Chair is now prepared to rule on the matter.

It is the role of the Chair to examine submissions made under a question of privilege

and to determine on the evidence presented whether a prima facie breach of privilege

has occurred.

As acknowledged by the member for Kamloops Centre, in considering a question of privilege

the Chair must first assess if the initial criterion has been met, being whether the

question was raised at the earliest opportunity. This strict requirement and the inability

of the Chair to relax it is canvassed in detail in Parliamentary Practice in British Columbia , fifth edition, at pages 401 to 403.

In order to satisfy the earliest opportunity criterion, it is the view of the Chair

that the member for Kamloops Centre had a reasonable opportunity to, at minimum, reserve

his right to raise a question of privilege on this matter while he prepared his submission.

On this basis, the Chair concludes that this criterion has not been met, and it is

the ruling of the Chair that a prima facie breach of privilege has not occurred.

However, the Chair wishes to take this opportunity to provide guidance to the House

as it relates to some of the matters at hand. The Committee of Supply is tasked with

examining requested annual appropriations for each ministry, social office or other

purpose. A final supply act enacted by the Legislature thereafter serves as the legal

mechanism by which those appropriations are assessed by the government from the consolidated

revenue fund.

While fiscal forecasts can change, the Chair accepts that the decisions before the

House and the Committee of Supply, in terms of main estimates appropriations being

requested by the government, have not changed. Expenditures by the government cannot

exceed individual vote totals without additional legislative authority.

[11:05 a.m.]

Having reviewed the written submissions, the member for Kamloops Centre and the Minister

of Finance disagree with respect to the

interpretation of relevant statutory provisions.

While that is not a matter for the Chair to adjudicate, the Chair can appreciate the

arguments made by the member for Kamloops Centre and the frustration that members

of the House may feel when they are being asked to consider budgetary measures in

an ever-changing fiscal environment.

The Chair trusts and expects that the House and the role in the financial life of

the province will be fully respected and that the government will fulfil its statutory

obligations to provide timely updates throughout the fiscal year.

Question of Privilege

(Reservation of Right)

Trevor Halford : I rise to reserve my right to raise a question of privilege related to comments made

earlier today in question period.

Hon. Brittny Anderson : I seek leave to make an introduction.

Leave granted.

Introductions by Members

Hon. Brittny Anderson : Today I would like to welcome members of the Colville Confederated Tribes and the

Sn̓ʕaýckstx Confederacy — Roger Finley, Steven Carson, Marty Repp, Margaret Rosling and Shelly

Boyd — to the Legislature.

If all members could please make them feel very welcome.

Orders of the Day

Motions Without Notice

Schedule for House Adjournment

Hon. Mike Farnworth : I move:

[That, notwithstanding Standing Order 2 (2) (b), when the House next adjourns, it stand adjourned until 10 a.m. on Monday, April 14, 2025.]

This is to correct a discrepancy that exists in the standing orders regarding what

used to be a two-week break and is currently a one-week break when we get it.

Motion approved.

Hon. Mike Farnworth : In this chamber, I call continued debate for the estimates of the Ministry of Health.

In the Douglas Fir Room,

Section A, I call continued debate on the estimates of the

Ministry of Forests.

The House in Committee,

Section B.

The committee met at 11:13 a.m.

[Lorne Doerkson in the chair.]

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Health

(continued)

The Chair : Good morning, Members. We’ll call this House back to order, and we will call on the

minister to move the vote.

On Vote 32: ministry operations, $34,996,928,000 (continued) .

The Chair : Continued questions on the Ministry of Health.

Jeremy Valeriote : Thank you to the minister and her team for graciously extending Health estimates

by a day. I believe I have until we adjourn at around noon. If that’s incorrect, please

let me know.

I’ll carry on.

The change to witnessed consumption for prescribed safer supply is predicted to disconnect

many people. We’ve heard how difficult it can be to show up at a pharmacy, often several

times per day, to receive the medications they need.

The provincial health officer and the office of the chief coroner of B.C. have both

recommended to reduce barriers to accessing OAT and other life-saving interventions,

but the witnessed consumption model seems to increase barriers. This could push many

people to return to a reliance on the toxic street supply.

How will the ministry reduce people’s reliance on the poison drug supply and connect

them to regulated alternatives?

[11:15 a.m. - 11:20 a.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you to the member for the question.

I’ll start off by stating that the prescribed alternatives program is an important

tool in tackling the impacts of the toxic drug crisis that we are facing. It is one

of the tools in the suite of harm reduction approaches, in addition to others, and

is important to help keep people alive, people who are facing addictions to this increasingly

toxic illicit drug supply.

The prescribed alternatives program during COVID…. We knew that in order to keep people

in access…. To have access to these medications that are helping to keep them alive,

it was important to move to a model that was more flexible so that people could access

these medications.

We also know, though, that prescribed medications of any kind need to be used by the

people for whom they are intended to be used. They needed to be consumed by the people

who need them and who are prescribed these alternatives. That’s why we’ve made the

decision to move into a witnessed program where consumption is witnessed by a health

professional. That is part of decreasing the risk of prescribed alternatives going

into the wrong hands, places where we don’t want to see that take place.

We also know that bringing people into close contact with prescribers is an option

for them to continue the work in this health care relationship and an opportunity

for prescribers to work with their clients, their patients, in helping to titrate

or move people away from prescribed alternatives, as it is safe to do, and into opioid

agonist therapy, for example.

The most commonly used prescribed alternative medication is hydromorphone, and we

know that this is not meeting the needs of all people and that we need, collectively

as a health care community, to be looking at better ways to serve people. Again, as

the toxic drug supply changes, as street fentanyl becomes more and more dangerous,

we need to be able to adapt and change.

We are working with the BCCSU and with clinicians to develop guidance to assist prescribers

in this work. Again, this is about finding the right medications to ensure that people’s

needs are being met. It’s about balancing two very important priorities in public

health. One, that we keep people alive as we help them access the treatment and recovery

services that they need, and the second, that we ensure that prescribed alternatives

are used by the people for whom they are intended and that we do everything we can

to reduce and mitigate the risk of them being diverted into hands that we do not want

to see them in.

We’re going to continue this work. The witnessed consumption currently applies to

all new clients while we do this important work with the BCCSU and clinicians to develop

this guidance and move people who are currently using prescribed alternatives into

a witnessed consumption model.

Jeremy Valeriote : Thank you to the minister for that answer.

Will the minister work towards evaluating an expanded scope of prescribed alternatives?

What work has been done to evaluate the options listed in the provincial health officer’s

2024 report Alternatives to Unregulated Drugs: Another Step in Saving Lives ?

[11:25 a.m. - 11:30 a.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you, again, to the member for the question and referencing the report that

the public health officer and her office, Dr. Henry, provided.

I want to first acknowledge the importance of that. Government continues to review

that and consider the recommendations and has already implemented some of the recommendations

from that report, including even just the language that we use.

Describing and calling this program, as it should be, as prescribed alternatives rather

than the former name of safer supply to truly indicate that this is about a clinical

and appropriate medical response to a health issue and that prescribed alternatives

are truly medications, as I described in my previous answer, that help keep people

alive while they can work with their health care providers and clinicians to change

into other forms of therapy, like opioid agonist therapy, and most importantly, as

well, maintain those human relationships so that they can be connected to treatment

and recovery services that are so important.

There are a variety of medications already available in the prescribed alternatives

program. This is a very new area of clinical work, and we have to continue to do everything

that we can to support clinicians and prescribers. Part of that is collecting and

understanding and analyzing the clinical evidence that is out there that will help

inform the policy decisions that we are making.

To that end, working again with the BCCSU and clinicians in developing ongoing and

updated clinical guidelines, but also the importance of the work of independent evaluations,

an independent evaluation by a person who is not wedded to the program and who is

able to undertake the kind of thorough and objective analysis that needs to happen….

It is done across the range of approaches to treating people with different diseases,

for example.

There is a provincial evaluation of the implementation of prescribed alternatives

that’s underway right now. It is being led by Dr. Bernie Pauly. This work is being

done with the Canadian Institute for Substance Use Research. It will allow for, again,

a fuller understanding of the impacts of the program, including the unintended impacts

of diversion, as well as the benefits for people who are on this program.

That work takes time, so we don’t expect it to be finished until 2026, because again,

this is a new area, and it is about following people through time on this program

and then undertaking this evaluation. So we’re going to continue to do this. We are

committed to evidence-based approaches in helping people who are experiencing severe

substance use and substance use issues.

Again, as we have canvassed in estimates, our government’s commitment is to building

out the full spectrum of supports for people, so beyond harm reduction programs like

prescribed alternatives and harm reduction programs of providing the take-home-naloxone

program. For example, drug checking, overdose prevention services, but also backing

up into the prevention work, the work we continue to do with youth and with adults

around supporting mental health issues and crises that people experience, and then,

of course, the treatment, recovery and aftercare, as we’ve canvassed throughout estimates.

This government has invested more funding into this critical area, to address the

toxic drug crisis, than ever before. We remain committed. There is $500 million of

new funding in this year’s budget to sustain and expand the programs to support people,

and we will continue to move forward with that.

I also would love to offer the B.C. Greens a detailed briefing around the prescribed

alternatives program — really pleased to offer that — and ensure that you stay up

to date with the developments as they occur. I really appreciate your compassion and

your sincere interest in this and your support for people who….

Sorry, through you, Chair. I really appreciate their support.

[11:35 a.m.]

Jeremy Valeriote : A couple of questions about vaccines. Can the minister tell us how much funding is

allocated towards vaccines for shingles, RSV and whooping cough in this budget?

Hon. Josie Osborne : I’ll start off by saying that our government believes in vaccine science and listens

to experts when it comes to saving people’s lives, and that includes from vaccine-preventable

illnesses.

The member has asked around funding towards vaccines. I’ll talk largely, and then

I’ll go into some of the specific examples that he’s mentioned.

First of all, for fiscal year ’25-26, we are forecasting to spend approximately $35.1

million on infant, early childhood and school-based immunization programs, writ large.

This includes the vaccine to prevent whooping cough, or pertussis, and that vaccine,

pertussis, is part of the publicly funded immunization program and is valued at $6.1

million.

Because I know so many British Columbians are watching, I want to make sure that people

understand that this is a vaccine that is given routinely, for free, at ages two months,

four months, six months and 18 months, at ages four to six years and again at ages

14 to 16. One dose of pertussis vaccine is also provided, for free, in pregnancy to

protect newborns who are too young to be immunized themselves.

Now I’ll talk more about RSV and shingles. The shingles and RSV vaccines aren’t currently

part of B.C.’s publicly funded immunization program, but we do regularly review these

programs to consider changes and additions.

One population that does receive assistance are First Nations Elders, aged 60 years

or older. Through the First Nations Health Authority, they are offered the Shingrix

vaccination for shingles.

[11:40 a.m.]

There are new RSV vaccines from several different companies that have been approved

by Health Canada and recently reviewed by Canada’s National Advisory Committee on

Immunization. Now, when a new vaccine is approved for use by Health Canada, we look

to this committee and our provincial public health and immunization experts to assess

and advise whether it should be added to our publicly funded immunization program

in B.C. These groups consider a real range of different factors when developing these

recommendations. That includes factors like the burden of illness, vaccine efficacy,

safety, cost effectiveness, implementation feasibility, ethics and equity. The ministry

then reviews these recommendations in the context of all of our health system priorities.

I’ll also mention that there is a program…. Right now further on RSV prevention, there

is a program for high-risk infants. Now, it’s not a vaccine per se. It’s a slightly

different program, but it’s to prevent RSV. It’s available through a program that’s

managed by the Provincial Health Services Authority. It’s run by the B.C. Children’s

Hospital. Again, this is one way of providing this kind of health care for high-risk

infants in particular.

Jeremy Valeriote : The HPV vaccine has proven to prevent cervical cancer and can be effective at preventing

multiple types of cancer at any age. However, public funding for vaccinations only

covers those under the age of 18.

Why are those who are unable to receive the vaccine in school not allowed access to

free HPV vaccination after the age of 18?

[11:45 a.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : Thank you, again, to the member for the question specifically around HPV vaccination.

I’ll start off by saying that B.C. truly is a world leader in preventing cervical

cancer, and by continuing the efforts that we are making in increasing opportunities

for human papillomavirus, or HPV, vaccinations, this is part of our ten-year cancer

action plan.

The most effective way to help prevent cervical cancer is by being vaccinated against

HPV, and the vaccine is offered for free, as the member indicated, in schools. It’s

offered for free, starting with any students in grade 6, through school-based immunization

clinics. In addition, it is also offered in schools to students in grades 7, 8 and

9 who might have missed their grade 6 immunization, and it provides an additional

opportunity for youth to be vaccinated.

In fall 2023, a year and a half ago, to further broaden protection from HPV and the

cancers that it can cause, we further expanded the eligibility to include males born

in 2005. This means that beyond school-based immunization groups, B.C. has now moved

to a publicly funded HPV immunization program for anybody, anybody aged 9 to 18, and

for special populations aged 19 to 26, like people who are HIV-positive or living

with HIV, two-spirit, transgender, and non-binary and cisgender men who have sex with

men or who are street-involved.

It is important, always, that we review the program itself, so we are currently reviewing

changes to the publicly funded HPV vaccine

schedule and the eligibility for people.

Again, this is in alignment with recommendations that come forward from Canada’s National

Advisory Committee on Immunization and with our own provincial immunization and public

health experts.

We’re going to continue to review international and national recommendations as they

relate to HPV vaccine use and eligibility. We want to make sure, again, that B.C.

is staying current with evidence-informed best practices.

For anybody who is out there listening to this, beyond us in the room here, it’s really

important. You can always speak with your primary care provider about your own eligibility

for this vaccine.

We’ll continue to review and monitor this program. I appreciate the question from

the member.

Jeremy Valeriote : The Society for Advocacy for Gender-Affirming Healthcare is calling on the government

to do more to offer comprehensive gender-affirming care for the trans and non-binary

people of British Columbia. Many trans and non-binary people in B.C. are often faced

with unequal access to the health care services they need, which can increase issues

with mental health. Equitable access to gender-affirming care has been shown to reduce

the risk of suicide among trans people, yet the majority of gender-affirming care

services are not covered under our public health care.

MSP coverage for a critical gender-affirming care procedure for trans women is limited

to “genetic females only.” Last September the government announced that it will be

covering hormonal replacement therapy medications to treat symptoms of menopause,

which many trans women also use for gender-affirming care. Unfortunately, the majority

of hormone replacement therapy medications are still not covered.

Will the minister explain if they intend to increase access to HRT medications for

gender-affirming care?

[11:50 a.m.]

Hon. Josie Osborne : First of all, I just want to say that I really appreciate the question.

I want to acknowledge that there are gaps to address in health care services that

are experienced by women, trans and non-binary people, and our government is fully

committed to continuing to do everything that we can to fill those gaps.

I will mention two brief points. In December 2023, the ministry approved changes in

coverage of medications, including transdermal estrogen and transdermal testosterone,

to enable more equitable and accessible coverage of gender-affirming pharmacotherapies.

Also, we are actively working to address calls to action to directly address these

gaps that I’m speaking about on gender-affirming care for children and youth. That

call to action has come from the Representative for Children and Youth in their report

in June 2023.

Noting the time, what I would do is offer a briefing on this subject and the opportunity

to meet with ministry staff, for the members opposite, and discuss this further.

I really appreciate the question.

Jeremy Valeriote : May I have permission to ask one more question and then ask for a written response,

given that I understand we’re short on time? I had one last question.

The Chair : Please do.

Jeremy Valeriote : Here in B.C., we have a company based in Port Coquitlam, Vitacore, that is making

world-class N95 and N99 respirators. This company is also leading with technology

and capacity to recycle personal protective equipment, making it possible to significantly

reduce hospital and health care waste.

Currently Vitacore is collecting PPE for recycling from some hospitals in B.C., diverting

a significant amount of waste from landfills and creating the basic materials for

recycled products.

Can the minister provide an update on a timeline for the expansion of the Vitacore

PPE recycling program in hospitals in B.C.?

And with that, I will thank the minister and the House.

Hon. Josie Osborne : Yes, I accept the question. We’ll take it on notice and provide a response to the

member.

I know that we are coming to the close. I just want to take a brief moment to express

my gratitude to all the members who asked questions throughout the last 26 or 27 hours

of estimates for the Ministry of Health.

In particular, I want to thank the staff who have supported me, many different members

of the public service who are professional, dedicated people who are so committed

to increasing and strengthening B.C.’s health care system and serving the people of

British Columbia. That includes the public servants behind me and in the Maple Room

behind this room and my staff from the minister’s office who’ve joined us in the gallery

today.

I want to express my deep appreciation for everybody for a successful round of estimates.

The Chair : Seeing no further questions or speakers, the question before this House is vote 32,

of course.

Vote 32: ministry operations, $34,996,928,000 — approved.

The Chair : Thank you very much, Members.

Hon. Josie Osborne : I move that the committee rise and report resolution of the estimates of the Ministry

of Health and ask leave to sit again.

Motion approved.

The Chair : This committee will stand adjourned.

The committee rose at 11:55 a.m.

The House resumed at 11:56 a.m.

[The Speaker in the chair.]

Lorne Doerkson : Committee of Supply,

Section B, reports resolution and completion of the estimates

of the Ministry of Health and asks leave to sit again.

Leave granted.

Jessie Sunner : Committee of Supply,

Section A, reports progress on the estimates of the Ministry

of Forests and asks leave to sit again.

Leave granted.

Statements

Clarification of Motion

to adjourn the House

Hon. Brenda Bailey : Before the House adjourns, I’d like to clarify for the benefit of members that the

motion adopted earlier this morning that the House stand adjourned until Monday, April

14, takes effect later today at daily adjournment, as Standing Order 2(2)(

b) references

the week of Good Friday.

Hon. Brenda Bailey moved adjournment of the House.

Motion approved.

The Speaker : This House stands adjourned until 1 p.m. today.

The House adjourned at 11:57 a.m.

Proceedings in the

Douglas Fir Room

The House in Committee,

Section A.

The committee met at 11:12 a.m.

[Jessie Sunner in the chair.]

Committee of Supply

Estimates: Ministry of Forests

(continued)

The Chair : Good morning, Members. I call the Committee of Supply,

Section A, to order. We are

meeting today to continue the consideration of the budget estimates of the Ministry

of Forests.

On Vote 30: ministry operations, $412,584,000 (continued) .

Ward Stamer : Good morning. Thank you for the minister’s responses yesterday.

I wanted to come back to a couple of things. I realize we’ve only got a couple of

hours, and we’re only going to have a very short period of time before we break for

lunch.

I referenced yesterday a document that is in a draft process right now. It’s called

the “Joint Compilation of Forest Biodiversity Principles,” which was published on

February 28. Have you seen this?

Interjection.

Ward Stamer : I can get you a copy.

This was a draft proposal between the Ministry of Forests and local First Nations

in our southern Interior ridings. I wanted to have an opportunity to be able to go

through some of this. If the minister would like, I can put these questions further

on this afternoon so that you have a copy of this, because this is basically a template

in going forward with what I believe is the intent of Bill 23, the Forests Statutes

Amendment Act, with joint stewardship.

This is a document that…. Yes, it’s in a draft form, but it has some very interesting

assumptions made in this document. I’d like the opportunity to ask the minister specific

questions to this, because this document, as said earlier, is a joint process with

Ministry of Forests and First Nations. There has been no consultation whatsoever with

existing forest licensees, community forests, any other stakeholders.

This is fresh, right off the press, and I have specific questions on consultation.

I have specific questions, going forward, when we talk about changes to statutory

laws. If the minister wishes, I can certainly get a copy, and that way, staff has

the same as what I have. Fair enough?

Interjection.

[11:15 a.m.]

Ward Stamer : Okay. All right.

Yesterday we were talking about some specifics when it came to access to roads and

rehabilitation and those kinds of things.

In one of the questions that arose from that, the minister alluded to that there were

mechanisms in place if any of these forest service roads were determined, from an

engineer’s perspective, to be deactivated. I’d like a little bit more clarity on how

that consultation process works. The minister mentioned that if there were any concerns

by the public, there were mechanisms available — hopefully before these roads were

going to be deactivated.

Are there opportunities, going forward, to be able to enhance that process, if there’s

an expectation, say, on a particular forest service road that has been used, basically,

for generations and the ministry is planning on rehabilitating some or part of that

road? Is there an opportunity for the public to engage before these decisions are

made and before the work is completed?

[11:20 a.m.]

Hon. Ravi Parmar : Thanks to the member opposite for the opportunity to be able to come back and talk

about the important work that the integrated resource operations division within the

Ministry of Forests, the forest service, does to be able to support 60,000 kilometres’

worth of forest service roads, FSRs. It’s a really important topic. It sometimes doesn’t

get, I think, the time and attention it deserves in Forestry estimates, so I appreciate

the member wanting to spend a little bit of time on it.

I can assure the member that members of the forest service team do a significant amount

of engagement. The reason we do it is that we recognize that resource roads are integral

to British Columbians. We touched on yesterday, with some members, the role that they

play, not just for industry but, of course, for other reasons as well like back-country

access, recreation and a whole host of other purposes.

Again, I think it’s a sense of pride for us in this ministry that there are many thousands

of kilometres of resource roads in the province that we are maintaining and that are

being used, again, for multiple purposes, not just for recreation but to be able to

support remote communities and First Nations communities as well.

What I would say is — the member opposite won’t be surprised by this, as someone who

has worked in the forest sector — that forestry roads are predominantly user-maintained.

We rely quite heavily on industry to be able to continue ensuring that maintenance

efforts are put into place. When forest activities are curtailed, the maintenance

activities on forestry roads are affected as well.

We certainly face a challenge. It’s not always feasible for the province to maintain

all resource roads in perpetuity. That’s why there’s guidance that the ministry provides

through the engineering roads funding policy, which identifies priorities and processes

for expenditures, administrative maintenance and liability funding on forest service

roads that strictly fall within the responsibility of the Ministry of Forests, led

by the incredible team in the integrated resource operations division.

I’ll also add, for the member’s benefit, that licensees are responsible for maintenance

and/or deactivation of their permitted roads once activities have been completed.

There is a big onus, as part of the work that industry does, for them to take that

level of responsibility. That’s an expectation that taxpayers would have, British

Columbians would have, of our sector, in cooperation with government. Certainly, a

reduction in industrial activity does result in fewer roads and less maintenance.

This can cause some challenges, and we’re certainly always looking at doing work internally.

Yesterday I mentioned the forest employment program that our government brought in

a number of years ago, which was a tool to be able to provide employment opportunities

for contractors to be able to use their equipment during downtime to get dollars to

be able to help maintain these roads, to be able to help repair these roads, and a

whole host of other things.

I’ll also add, for the member’s benefit, that the future strategic direction as it

pertains to forestry roads, I think, is going to be provided through the work of forest

landscape planning and other initiatives that I’m sure we’ll get an opportunity to

talk about, as the member noted in his earlier comments, referencing a document that

we certainly look forward to getting into this afternoon.

As part of that, road closures and deactivation work, as it happens within the ministry,

must be considered, really, with one key principle, public safety. Public safety is

the critical component for decisions that the engineers in the integrated resource

operations division make, when it comes to making the difficult decision on when to

remove a bridge or to close a forest service road. This is adequately addressed in

the Ministry of Forests roads funding policy, as well, which helps provide guidance

in regard to this.

There are a number of examples where, I think, members of the integrated resource

operations division, working alongside district managers and other members of the

forest service, have been able to work with community members to be able to address

challenges and concerns. While safety is a key pillar, we are finding ways to be able

to address challenges.

[11:25 a.m.]

I think it’s also important to know that the level of deactivation varies in many

cases. Certainly, we could talk about different examples of how decisions made by

engineers may lead to certain things. There may be strict safety protocols that require

a bridge to be deactivated. There may be other instances where the pathway is still

accessible but may have other types of barriers, and it’s important for us to know

that.

Also, it’s always really important for our team in the integrated resource operations

division to be on the ground. It’s why we’ve got team members all across the province,

I would add, that rely quite heavily on our regional executive directors and our district

managers, who are based in communities all across the province, to have a better understanding

of the level of use when it pertains to these roads.

When you look at industry, it’s not just forestry that benefits but the oil and gas

sector and mining, as examples. We’re always engaging with other partners.

I want to come back and talk a bit about rural residents and remote First Nations

as well. Again, that consultation that the member, I guess, was asking about in his

question really does differentiate depending on the severity of the issue and the

access road. When we look at the work that we’re doing to be able to support remote

First Nations, I’ve had an opportunity to be able to meet with a number of nations

over the course of the last number of months.

I think back to my conversations, over the course of the last number of months, with

Chief John French of the Takla First Nation. It’s quite a commute to be able to get

to him; I know how important an issue this would be for him. So many nations, in particular

in the North but all throughout…. I had an opportunity to meet with a Chief last week

that has been advocating for these types of investments in her community for almost

two decades. It’s important, right?

There are certainly challenges associated with wildfires, as well, so having safe

pathways are really important. Budget ’24-25 provided the Ministry of Forests with

increased road maintenance and capital upgrade funding, which is already improving

five key forest service roads that access ten First Nations communities, making them

safer for community members, ambulances, service vehicles and school buses on that

daily commute and, I would add, in the case of emergencies, making sure that these

road pathways are easily accessible and benefit the community.

Budget ’24-25 also provided the Ministry of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation

with $12 million in one-time funding, allocated to the First Nations to support capacity-building,

equipment acquisition and training. The reason I mention that to the member: it’s

always important for us to be able to support building that capacity within nations,

for them to be able to take on that work.

There has been significant progress in the delivery of road maintenance over the course

of the last number of years; $5.5 million for capital upgrades in two north area districts

and three coast area districts as well. So this is not happening just in the Interior

or in the North but happening in the coast as well. I’ve had a number of conversations

with Chiefs around challenges associated with that.

Also, several nations have used the capacity funding that we’ve provided, including

for the delivery and work that leads to road improvement, including the Takla, Tl’azt’en,

Yekooche and Douglas First Nations.

I’ll conclude by saying that I think this work is integral, and it’s critical for

us to be on the ground working with First Nations communities and other rural communities.

I would welcome the member opposite and his colleagues, if they ever have opportunities

that arise where they think it would be beneficial for a point of view or perspective

to be raised, we’d be happy to hear those.

Ward Stamer : I thank the minister for his answers.

I just wanted to pick up on a couple of points that the minister made in reference

to maintenance of roads. Just to be clear, BCTS is the largest licensee in the province.

BCTS and the Ministry of Forests are responsible for more forest service roads than

any other of our licensees in the province.

[11:30 a.m.]

One of the questions that comes up, as the minister mentioned, is safety. I have a

couple of questions on that, and then I’m going to switch gears here.

Are this ministry and BCTS doing annual danger tree assessments on their roads? If

they are, I’d like to know what that costs.

I’d also like to know the maintenance breakout on both Ministry of Forests and BCTS

on the road maintenance program this year. I know that on MOF, it’s part of the $58

million. I’d like a breakout on what they’re planning on doing, not just necessarily

on First Nation access but on all access in the province under the FSRs that are under

their responsibility, not shared with licensees.

At the same time, when we’re talking about access, I would like the opportunity to

talk a little bit about our fire-damaged areas. The minister talked a little bit yesterday

about tree planting. Of course, that’s near and dear to most of us in this room, knowing

that we have to try to regenerate as quickly as we can after a fire. The minister

mentioned that last year it was 281 seedlings that were planted. I’d like to ask the

minister what number is planned for this year.

I’d also like to ask the government, and we talked about this yesterday: is the government

looking at any additional policies in trying to speed up the process to access and

utilize burnt timber? I mean, we know of examples of wood that’s still left over from

2017 fires that has not been utilized.

I know there can be issues with replanting costs, access, those kinds of things. Case

in point is the Adams Lake fire that swept through in 2023 and went below the Adams

Lake mill. Fortunately, they were able to protect that mill. There was a lot of fibre

that was burnt around that area and all the way down to the Skwlāx First Nation. A

lot of their reserve lands were burnt. They were able to access their fibre on their

First Nation and utilize it as quickly as they could.

As for the Crown lands, it took almost a year before the very first cutting permit

was allowed on the Crown lands from the Adams Lake fire. Now, I can argue that we’ve

lost tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars in value in that fibre by waiting

that long.

The question to the minister is: are there processes in place to be able to quickly

access burnt timber, similar to other jurisdictions, and when are we going to see

that legislation or those proposals or those policies so the next time we can start

utilizing this fibre quicker?

[11:35 a.m. - 11:40 a.m.]

The Chair : Minister, noting the time, perhaps you could move the motion, and we could get your

response in the….

Hon. Ravi Parmar : Aw, aw. I’ve got a couple minutes to get through, maybe, the first part of it.

The Chair : Sure. We’ll just note the clock, though, so if you could keep the comments brief,

and we can continue in the afternoon.

Hon. Ravi Parmar : Well, we’ll come back. If you want to dedicate more time to forestry, I’m here. Maybe

another ministry can wait.

Just on the dangerous tree assessment piece as it relates to BCTS, the member opposite

is absolutely right. BCTS is the largest licensee holder in the province. We do yearly

reviews as it relates to dangerous tree assessments and also, broadly, the roads and

everything else that comes and treat it as necessary.

The funding breakdown that the member is looking for is not something that we have

at this time. I’m happy to follow up and provide that.

I will share, just to set ourselves up for when we come back…. I’m happy to talk a

bit about some of the reforestation work, the tree planting that’s going on. I think

it’s a good opportunity for us to recognize the hundreds, if not thousands, of British

Columbians and people from all over the world that are coming here to plant trees.

We’ll certainly get into the wildfire salvage. I understand that the member, just

from some comments that he has made in the media and stuff, has got some ideas and,

maybe, some suggestions around wildfire salvage — happy to chat about that.

Noting the hour, I move that the committee rise, report progress and ask leave to

sit again.

Motion approved.

The Chair : Thank you, Members.

This committee stands adjourned.

The committee rose at 11:44 a.m.