British Columbia Hansard — 19 February 2018, a.m., Issue 79 (41st Parliament, 3rd Session)

20180219am-Hansard-n79

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session, 41st Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Monday, February 19, 2018 Morning Sitting Issue No. 79 THE HONOURABLE DARRYL PLECAS, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Judith Guichon, OBC Third Session, 41st Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Darryl Plecas EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council............................................................................................................... Hon. John Horgan Deputy Premier and Minister of Finance............................................................................................................................Hon.

Carole James Minister of Advanced Education, Skills and Training..................................................................................................... Hon. Melanie Mark Minister of Agriculture.........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General.................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

David Eby, QC Minister of Children and Family Development............................................................................................................ Hon. Katrine Conroy Minister of State for Child Care......................................................................................................................................Hon. Katrina Chen Minister of Citizens’ Services.................................................................................................................................................... Hon.

Jinny Sims Minister of Education............................................................................................................................................................ Hon. Rob Fleming Minister of Energy, Mines and Petroleum Resources...............................................................................................Hon. Michelle Mungall Minister of Environment and Climate Change Strategy.............................................................................................Hon.

George Heyman Minister of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development..............................................Hon. Doug Donaldson Minister of Health.....................................................................................................................................................................Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ......................................................................................................... Hon.

Scott Fraser Minister of Jobs, Trade and Technology............................................................................................................................ Hon. Bruce Ralston Minister of State for Trade...............................................................................................................................................Hon. George Chow Minister of Labour...................................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Harry Bains Minister of Mental Health and Addictions............................................................................................................................ Hon. Judy Darcy Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing.................................................................................................................. Hon. Selina Robinson Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General........................................................................................................... Hon.

Mike Farnworth Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction..............................................................................................Hon. Shane Simpson Minister of Tourism, Arts and Culture.....................................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure................................................................................................................ Hon.

Claire Trevena LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition................................................................................................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Leader of the Third Party ....................................................................................................................................................Dr. Andrew Weaver Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................................

Raj Chouhan Assistant Deputy Speaker................................................................................................................................................................... Linda Reid Deputy Chair, Commi ttee of the Whole................................................................................................................

Spencer Chandra Herbert Clerk of the Legislative Assembly ....................................................................................................................................................Craig James Deputy Clerk and Clerk of Commi ttees.................................................................................................................................

Kate Ryan-Lloyd Clerk Assistant — Commi ttees and Interparliamentary Relations ..........................................................................................Susan Sourial Sessional Law Clerk...............................................................................................................................................Loredana Catalli-Sonier, QC Sergeant-at-Arms ................................................................................................................................................................................. Gary Lenz

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS Ashton, Dan (BC Liberal)........................................................................ Penticton Bains, Hon. Harry (NDP)...............................................................Surrey-Newton Barnett, Donna (BC Liberal)................................................... Cariboo-Chilcotin Beare, Hon. Lisa (NDP).............................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry (NDP) ..................................................................... Surrey-Guildford Bernier, Mike (BC Liberal).......................................................

Peace River South Bond, Shirley (BC Liberal)......................................... Prince George–Valemount Brar, Jagrup (NDP)..................................................................... Surrey-Fleetwood Cadieux, Stephanie (BC Liberal)....................................................... Surrey South Chandra Herbert, Spencer (NDP) ..................................... Vancouver–West End Chen, Hon. Katrina (NDP).....................................................Burnaby-Lougheed Chouhan, Raj (NDP) ............................................................... Burnaby-Edmonds Chow, Hon.

George (NDP)............................................... Vancouver-Fraserview Clovechok, Doug (BC Liberal)................................ Columbia River–Revelstoke Coleman, Rich (BC Liberal)...............................................................Langley East Conroy, Hon. Katrine (NDP)......................................................... Kootenay West Darcy, Hon.

Judy (NDP) ............................................................New Westminster Davies, Dan (BC Liberal)..........................................................Peace River North de Jong, Michael, QC (BC Liberal)............................................ Abbotsford West Dean, Mitzi (NDP)...............................................................Esquimalt-Metchosin D’Eith, Bob (NDP) ...............................................................Maple Ridge–Mission Dix, Hon. Adrian (NDP)......................................................Vancouver-Kingsway Donaldson, Hon.

Doug (NDP).....................................................................Stikine Eby, Hon. David, QC (NDP).............................................Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable (NDP)....................................................... Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike (NDP) ...................................................... Port Coquitlam Fleming, Hon. Rob (NDP) .....................................................Victoria–Swan Lake Foster, Eric (BC Liberal)........................................................... Vernon-Monashee Fraser, Hon.

Scott (NDP) ................................................ Mid Island–Pacific Rim Furstenau, Sonia (BC Green Party) ........................................... Cowichan Valley Gibson, Simon (BC Liberal)................................................. Abbotsford-Mission Glumac, Rick (NDP)........................................................Port Moody–Coquitlam Heyman, Hon. George (NDP).............................................. Vancouver-Fairview Horgan, Hon. John (NDP) ...............................................

Langford–Juan de Fuca Hunt, Marvin (BC Liberal).......................................................Surrey-Cloverdale Isaacs, Joan (BC Liberal).........................................Coquitlam–Burke Mountain James, Hon. Carole (NDP)...................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Johal, Jas (BC Liberal)...............................................

Richmond-Queensborough Kahlon, Ravi (NDP)..............................................................................Delta North Kang, Anne (NDP)..................................................................Burnaby–Deer Lake Krog, Leonard Eugene (NDP) ..................................................................Nanaimo Kyllo, Greg (BC Liberal)............................................................................ Shuswap Larson, Linda (BC Liberal).............................................Boundary-Similkameen Lee, Michael (BC Liberal)......................................................

Vancouver-Langara Leonard, Ronna-Rae (NDP) ....................................................Courtenay-Comox Letnick, Norm (B C Liberal)............................................Kelowna–Lake Country Ma, Bowinn (NDP)................................................... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Mark, Hon. Melanie (NDP) ..................................... Vancouver–Mount Pleasant Martin, John (BC Liberal)...................................................................... Chilliwack Milobar, Peter (BC Liberal)....................................

Kam loops–North Thompson Morris, Mike (BC Liberal)..........................................Prince George–Mackenzie Mungall, Hon. Michelle (NDP).................................................... Nelson-Creston Oakes, Coralee (BC Liberal)...........................................................Cariboo North Olsen, Adam (B C Green Party)........................... Saanich North and the Islands Paton, Ian (BC Liberal)......................................................................... Delta South Plecas, Hon.

Darryl (Ind.) ..........................................................Abbotsford South Polak, Mary (BC Liberal)............................................................................ Langley Popham, Hon. Lana (NDP)..............................................................Saanich South Ralston, Hon. Bruce (NDP) .......................................................... Surrey-Whalley Redies, Tracy (BC Liberal)..................................................... Surrey–White Rock Reid, Linda (BC Liberal)................................................

Richmond South Centre Rice, Jennifer (NDP) ............................................................................ North Coast Robinson, Hon. Selina (NDP) ....................................... Coquitlam-Maillardville Ross, Ellis (BC Liberal)..................................................................................Skeena Routledge, Janet (NDP) .................................................................. Burnaby North Routley, Doug (NDP) ................................................Nanaimo–North Cowichan Rustad, John (BC Liberal)..............................................................

Nechako Lakes Shypitka, Tom (B C Liberal).............................................................Kootenay East Simons, Nicholas (NDP) ........................................Powell River–Sunshine Coast Simpson, Hon. Shane (NDP)................................................ Vancouver-Hastings Sims, Hon.

Jinny (NDP) .............................................................Surrey-Panorama Singh, Rachna (NDP) ........................................................Surrey–Green Timbers Stilwell, Michelle (BC Liberal)..............................................Parksville-Qualicum Stone, Todd (BC Liberal)........................................

Kam loops–South Thompson Sturdy, Jordan (BC Liberal).......................................West Vancouver–Sea to Sky Sullivan, Sam (B C Liberal)...............................................Vancouver–False Creek Sultan, Ralph (BC Liberal)......................................... West Vancouver–Capilano Tegart, Jackie (BC Liberal)................................................................ Fraser-Nicola Thomson, Steve (BC Liberal).....................................................Kelowna-Mission Thornthwaite, Jane (BC Liberal).............................

North Vancouver–Seymour Throness, Laurie (BC Liberal)..................................................... Chilliwack-Kent Trevena, Hon. Claire (NDP) .............................................................. North Island Wat, Teresa (BC Liberal)................................................Richmond North Centre Weaver, Dr. Andrew (BC Green Party) ......................... Oak Bay–Gordon Head Wilkinson, Andrew, QC (BC Liberal).............................. Vancouver-Quilchena Yap, John (BC Liberal)..........................................................

Richmond-Steveston Vacant..................................................................................................Kelowna West LIST OF MEMBERS BY RIDING Abbotsford-Mission ..........................................................................Simon Gibson Abbotsford South ..................................................................... Hon. Darryl Plecas Abbotsford West.................................................................... Michael de Jong, QC Boundary-Similkameen.....................................................................

Linda Larson Burnaby–Deer Lake ...............................................................................Anne Kang Burnaby-Edmonds ..............................................................................Raj Chouhan Burnaby-Lougheed................................................................... Hon. Katrina Chen Burnaby North................................................................................

Janet Routledge Cariboo-Chilcotin............................................................................Donna Barnett Cariboo North .................................................................................. Coralee Oakes Chilliwack.............................................................................................. John Martin Chilliwack-Kent..............................................................................Laurie Throness Columbia River–Revelstoke........................................................

Doug Clovechok Coquitlam–Burke Mountain................................................................. Joan Isaacs Coquitlam-Maillardville..................................................... Hon. Selina Robinson Courtenay-Comox ................................................................. Ronna-Rae Leonard Cowichan Valley............................................................................

Sonia Furstenau Delta North ...........................................................................................Ravi Kahlon Delta South.................................................................................................Ian Paton Esquimalt-Metchosin.............................................................................Mitzi Dean Fraser-Nicola........................................................................................

Jackie Tegart Kam loops–North Thompson............................................................Peter Milobar Kam loops–South Thompson ................................................................Todd Stone Kelowna–Lake Country....................................................................Norm L etnick Kelowna-Mission.............................................................................

Steve Thomson Kelowna West..................................................................................................Vacant Kootenay East.....................................................................................Tom Shypitka Kootenay West...................................................................... Hon. Katrine Conroy Langford–Juan de Fuca............................................................. Hon. John Horgan Langley....................................................................................................

Mary Polak Langley East.......................................................................................Rich Coleman Maple Ridge–Mission ............................................................................ Bob D’Eith Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ..........................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim .............................................................. Hon. Scott Fraser Nanaimo...............................................................................

Leonard Eugene Krog Nanaimo–North Cowichan.............................................................. Doug Routley Nechako Lakes...................................................................................... John Rustad Nelson-Creston.................................................................. Hon. Michelle Mungall New Westminster......................................................................... Hon. Judy Darcy North Coast..........................................................................................

Jennifer Rice North Island............................................................................ Hon. Claire Trevena North Vancouver–Lonsdale................................................................. Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour......................................................Jane Thornthwaite Oak Bay–Gordon Head..........................................................Dr. Andrew Weaver Parksville-Qualicum .....................................................................Michelle Stilwell Peace River North..................................................................................

Dan Davies Peace River South............................................................................... Mike Bernier Penticton................................................................................................ Dan Ashton Port Coquitlam .................................................................... Hon. Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Coquitlam .....................................................................Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast.....................................................

Nicholas Simons Prince George–Mackenzie..................................................................Mike Morris Prince George–Valemount.................................................................Shirley Bond Richmond North Centre ........................................................................Teresa Wat Richmond-Queensborough.......................................................................Jas Johal Richmond South Centre........................................................................

Linda Reid Richmond-Steveston.................................................................................. John Yap Saanich North and the Islands............................................................Adam Olsen Saanich South............................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Shuswap .................................................................................................... Greg Kyllo Skeena.........................................................................................................

Ellis Ross Stikine ..................................................................................Hon. Doug Donaldson Surrey-Cloverdale...............................................................................

Marvin Hunt Surrey-Fleetwood...................................................................................Jagrup Brar Surrey–Green Timbers ......................................................................Rachna Singh Surrey-Guildford....................................................................................Garry Begg Surrey-Newton.............................................................................Hon. Harry Bains Surrey-Panorama........................................................................... Hon.

Jinny Sims Surrey South...............................................................................Stephanie Cadieux Surrey-Whalley........................................................................ Hon. Bruce Ralston Surrey–White Rock............................................................................. Tracy Redies Vancouver-Fairview ............................................................ Hon. George Heyman Vancouver–False Creek.......................................................................

Sam Sullivan Vancouver-Fraserview .............................................................Hon. George Chow Vancouver-Hastings.............................................................. Hon. Shane Simpson Vancouver-Kensington ..................................................................... Mable Elmore Vancouver-Kingsway ................................................................... Hon. Adrian Dix Vancouver-Langara.............................................................................. Michael Lee Vancouver–Mount Pleasant................................................... Hon.

Melanie Mark Vancouver–Point Grey...........................................................Hon. David Eby, QC Vancouver-Quilchena......................................................Andrew Wilkinson, QC Vancouver–West End....................................................Spencer Chandra Herbert Vernon-Monashee...................................................................................Eric Foster Victoria–Beacon Hill................................................................ Hon. Carole James Victoria–Swan Lake .................................................................. Hon.

Rob Fleming West Vancouver–Capilano................................................................. Ralph Sultan West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ..............................................................Jordan Sturdy Party Standings: NDP 41; BC Liberal 41; BC Green Party 3; Independent 1; Vacant 1

CONTENTS Monday, February 19, 2018 Morning Sitting Page Orders of the Day Private Members’ Statements................................................................................................................................................. 2669 Working together to end homelessness S. Chandra Herbert R. Coleman Mental health and addictions J. Thornthwaite M. Dean Artistic expression as a quality of leadership J. Routledge S. Gibson Addressing family physician shortages L. Throness J.

Rice Private Members’ Motions ..................................................................................................................................................... 2677 Motion 1 — Affordable post-secondary education G. Begg S. Cadieux M. Elmore M. Morris L. Krog G. Kyllo R. Singh J. Thornthwaite R. Kahlon M. Stilwell R. Leonard

MONDAY, FEBRUARY 19, 2018 The House met at 10:03 a.m. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Routine Business Prayers. [10:05 a.m.] Orders of the Day Private Members’ Statements WORKING TOGETHER TO END HOMELESSNESS S. Chandra Herbert: Last night was cold. It was even colder if you were living on the street. I’m speaking today aboutthe work we need to dotogether to end homelessness. This is a topic that’s importantto me, and it’s been something thatI’ve worked on for many years of my life, because you can’thave a good life if you’re home- less.

You can’thave the safety you need, the stability you need to follow your dreams, if you have no home to live in. [R. Chouhan in the chair.] When I think of homelessness, I think of coat hangers in the woods. I’ve done the homelessness countmostevery year, and an image that will forever stay with me is going through the woods of Stanley Park and coming across some- body’s home — what they tried to make a home, anyways. They’d hung coathangers in between trees, with theirT- shirtsarranged very nicely.

The trees had, of course, gotten wet,and the clothes gotwet.The clothes hadbeen there forI don’tknow how long, butthey were covered in whatlooked like moss because they’d been there so long. A littleways down the path, there was a man living in a stump. How he ended up there, I’m notsure. He lived there, he said, because itwas saferthan the single-room-occupancy hotel that he’d been living in. When you walk up Davie Street,you pass Hornby. Right on a littlepatch of concrete, you can stillsee a burn mark. That’s where Tracey burned to death, shortly afterI was first elected to this place. I’d metheronce, maybe.

Many had. She burned to death on the street because she had no home. I think of Peter. Peter, who was in and outof my office m any times, attacked a number of times whilehom eless. He is housed now, and I can tell you it’s m ade a worldof difference. I think of the wom an I m etwho was hom eless because of renovictions. Because, unfortunately, the law had not been properly setoutto protecther, she ended up on the street — terrified, with a big dog, hoping that nobody would attack her. I think of the youth I’ve meton the street.In some cases, fleeing homophobia from theirparents,and they end up in Vancouver.

Now, these are allpeople. I speak aboutthe peoplefirst. Too often we hearaboutthe hom eless, and itbecom es as if they’re an objector som ething different.We counthom e- less. Well, these are people. In Metro Vancouverlastyear, we found 3,605 peoplehom eless. That’s up 30 percentfrom 2014. In a province that could boast of billions in surpluses, think of thousands and thousands of our fellow citizens sleeping homeless — on the streets,on a couch, ata friend’s place, in their van. We’re seeing more and more RV’s and vans across comm unities, more and more homelessness in every comm unity.

Itused to be aVancouverissue:“Oh,those Vancouver people.” Now it’s an every comm unity issue. Now, how did we gethere? How has itgotso bad?Why? Well, I would argue it’s because we haven’t taken enough of a systemic approach to this. We haven’t looked at it in every comm unity. We’ve focused on anecdotes rather than actually trying to end itsystematically, trying to stop people from spirallinginto homelessness. It’s notjustaboutbuilding homesand gettingpeopleoff the streetinto homes,butmak- ing sure they don’t end up on the street in the first place.

That’s why I’m so gladthatfinally, finally, the government has commi tted to bringing in a homelessness action plan. The proof willbe in the pudding, so to speak, butyou can’t address a problem unless you acknowledge you have one, and finally the governmenthas acknowledged there is a ser- ious, serious problem in every comm unity. Modular housing has been announced, $291 million to providequick-startsolutions to getpeoplein imm ediately so that they’re not sleeping in the cold. It’s a good start. [10:10 a.m.] Building housing takes time.

Modular housing cutsthat time almostin half, if notfaster, depending on the styleof housing you are trying to build. These are solutions, and I know peoplewho’ve gotten into the housing now who are already finding a better life because of it. Now, I was once asked by a constituent: “Why do you think we have to address homelessness? Why do you focus on this in this way?” I said: “Well” — he, atleastatthe start, seemed to me to be ratherunsympathetic — “financially it’s juststupid to leave peopleon the streetbecause they getsick. There’s afinancialcostforthe health care, the legalcostif the police get involved.

It’s on and on.” He said: “Well, that’s rathercold.” I said: “Well, I’m gladI can talk to you from the heart.” Forme, yes,the financialside makes a lotof sense. Butfor me, it’s always been aboutthe heartbecause I don’tthink thatyou can be strong as a com- munity if some of yourmembers are struggling and falling and failing. You can’tfeelgood aboutyourcomm unity if you have to step overahomeless person in orderto getto ashop. I know some peoplestartto notsee homeless people, start to ignore them, because we can’t, I suppose, faceup to the 2669

factthatthere is thatlevelof deprivation in oursociety. But that’s not the right way. We need to focus on it, see the people, address the needs and raise them up. Homelessness comesfrom avariety of ways.I talked about renovictions. I talked aboutdiscrimination. It’s also poverty. We have a poverty problem in this province, and we’ve had itforfartoo long. And you can’taddress poverty unless you have a plan to address it.So a poverty reduction strategy is the right way to go.

I’m glad ourgovernment is also addressing that because you can buildthe housing, butif more and more peopleend up on the streets,you’re always going to be playing catch-up, ratherthan saying: “Let’s make sure peoplehave the stability they need in theirlives so they can stay in the housing that they have, so they can getthe addictions support,the mental health support,the family support,the financialsupport— if that’s, indeed, whathappens — so they can getthatextra little bit of care that we each owe each other.” Thatcan help end homelessness before itbegins, and that’s where we need to be focusing on — ending it before it begins.

R. Coleman: Thanks to the member for his comm ents. I should start out by saying I don’t think anybody on eithersideof this House is interested in notdoingsomething abouthomelessness. I think there’s a significantrecord with regards to it.Back in just2001, we had835 spacesforshelter in the entire provinceof B.C. None of them were open 24-7. None of them provided meals. Today there are over2,000 of those so people can actually get meals for stability. The importantthingto understand — and the memberhit on it — with regards to homelessness is that it’s about the peoplewho are homeless.

There is no singlepiece thatyou can actually fix otherthan you can providethe housing, but you better have the supports behind the people. A lot of the people on our streets today suffer mental health and addictions, and they have multiplebarriers. So notonly do you have the challenge when you getthem into housing thatthey wouldstay and feelcomfortable, butwhen they’re there, you need to have the servicesto wrap around them, whetheritbe the teams thatwe now have outthere for our youth across the province or whatever.

There have been literally thousands of unitsand hundreds of buildings bought and renovated for the homelessness in B.C. overthe lastnumberof years, in the billions of dollars. Operating budgetsare three orfourtimes whatthey used to be, simply because we’re trying to catch up to aproblemthat seems to sometimes move on us in quick periods of time. Sometimes, within six months, you can see a dramatic impactand the increase of peoplein homelessness, like we had with the camp, particularly here in Victoria, and we ended up buying a number of buildings and renovating.

Butourcohortthatwas in thatcamp wasn’tactually British Columbians. Itwas coming from elsewhere across ourcoun- try. Of course, in ourcountry, we take care of everybody, no matter where they are, if we can. I think the firstthing to understand is thatboth sidesof this House wantto work on this. I think the factis thatthere are over10,000 familiestoday thatactually have rentassist- ance, and the governmenthas now decided thatthey under- stand the importance of that — 20,000 seniors. The otherpiece, though, is thatlittleuntoldstory.

The out- reach workers had started to be put into the system back aboutnine orten years ago. We expanded thatacross the 40 comm unities. The resultof thatis over7,000 peoplea year are being connected into housing and supportsthrough our shelter system and our outreach workers in this province. [10:15 a.m.] As we’ve learned more and more aboutthe cohortitself, the difficulties it has in adjusting, we have increased our teams to have clinicalpsychologistsand health workers and whathave you with ouroutreach teams so they can startto wrap around right at the very beginning.

Then the biggest challenge of all this comes when you actually wantto dosomething. Itdoesn’tmatterwhich com- munity you’re in. I can guarantee that as soon as you say you’re going to builda shelter— even if it’s at3030 Gordon in Coquitlam or whetherit’s the Salvation Army in Langley — you’re going to have a very large anti-projectof peopleat a publichearing thatmunicipalities have to dealwith. It’s a challenge forthem. They’re actually tryingto make achange, butthe comm unity doesn’teverwantitanywhere nearthem.

I’ve been to comm unities many times where peoplesay: “Well, we want a shelter.” They point me to the industrial area where there’s not a single residence or any services because that’s where we can getit sold. The reality is that we as a society have to understand something. This is about humanity. It’s about people.

Although we sometimes getpartisan in our criticisms, I don’t think anybody can be critical of the fact that people have been investing; trying to get it done; working with MLAs across the province, no matterwhatstripe they are, to try and doit.Thatneeds to continue — and with funding to help with that. Of course, we will have to step up over time and help the local governments with education and understanding about…. Just because someone builds a sheltersomewhere doesn’tmean yourcrime goes up. In actualfact,shelterand supportive housingcan actually dothe opposite.

Butthere’s a fearof mentalillness and addictions in people. That’s achal- lenge for allof us to getthrough. We shouldcontinue to do that and continue to invest. I’m actually proud of the investmentand the work we’ve done overthe lastdecadein housing. It’s neverperfect.You won’tgetitallthe way, butyou need to setthe foundation. I believe we’ve done that. S. Chandra Herbert: I thank the member for his com- ments.I think he’s really pointed outthe challenge. It’s that you can increase the amountof housing — and we have seen an increase afteratime when we didn’thave much supply for years — and shelter, as well.

Butif the numbers keep going 2670 British Columbia Debates Monday, February 19, 2018

up, as they seem to be, we’re not keeping up, unfortunately. I think the challenge has been catching the folks before they fall. How doyou help somebody so thatthey don’tspiral into poverty; so thatthey don’ttake the step into addiction, mentalhealth challenges, sometimes conjoined; so thatthey don’tend up being thrown outof a home due to hatred or because they simply don’thave enough money? Itmay start with money, but it doesn’t always end with money.

I think aboutthe challenge thatwe’ve gotaround modular housing and the issue of comm unity acceptance and the need for comm unity support to be ableto house homeless people. In my neighbourhood — close by, in CoalHarbour — you can go through the parks, you can go through the back areas, and there are homeless peoplethere. Now, I talk to some residents,and they say: “Whatdoyou mean?” I say: “Well, whattime do you getup in the morning?” Oh, okay. Yeah, they don’t get up so early, so they may not see them.

When I raised the issue of m odular housing, one of the first things constituents in that neighbourhood said was: “Well, but they’re not coming here, are they? They’re not m eantfor us in this area.” I said: “Well, butyou were just complaining to m e about the panhandler. You were just complaining to m e about the fella who sleeps under the tree outin frontof yourcondo with a multi-multimillion- dollar view.” These are our neighbours. I think the key

part is to rememberthis couldbe any one of us. Unless you provide the social supports,these folks, in some comm unities, will neverbelieve thatthey can be safe. They’ve zeroed in on the factthatsome peoplewho wouldpotentially be in the mod- ular housing couldbe addicted, couldhave a mentalhealth challenge. When I point it out — that couldalso be their neighbourin theirvery own condobuilding— it’s: “Oh,well, that’s not the same.” Well, it is the same. We don’t have the right to decide who our next-door neighbour is, so we better start accepting that homeless peopleare our neighbours too.

We don’t want them to be homeless forlong. If they’re nothomeless, they’re goingto be a healthierneighbourand a betterneighbourthan if they’re living on the street. I don’t think we can take our eyes off this issue. The momentyou do, more peopleare on the street.The moment you do, then you start hearing from the business people. You starthearing from the comm unities who don’tfeelsafe because theirpark has peopleliving in it.You have to focus on this completely, allthe time, and thatalso means the fed- eral government needs to be there too. I’m honoured to be ableto speak on this issue. I’ll keep working on it.

I thank all members who’ve worked on this issue over the years. [10:20 a.m.] MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTIONS J. Thornthwaite: Underthe previous B.C. Liberalgovern- ment, our province became the recognized leadernation- widein harm reduction, from opening North America’s first supervised injection site in 2003 to declaring a provincial publichealth emergency in April2016. This provided more resources and services, which continue to save lives. It’s working, but it’s not enough.

Given thatthe mostrecentstatistics of overdoses for the lastyear indicate thatoverdose deaths are stillrising within the currentsystem, the question remains: how do we getto the root of the problem and prevent people from turning to drugsin the firstplace?How do we address and treatan underlying mentalillness when the firstsigns of a problem are identified, before the symptoms get worse and people find it difficult to cope with stress, anxiety, depression or underlying trauma, neglect or abuse? The answer is quite simple:we have to do it all.

British Columbia needs a full continuum of care, ranging from mental wellness programs in schools and comm unities to harm reduction treatments, plus the availability of abstin- ence-based recovery programs for all incomes. How do we getpeopleoff drugs completely? It is recog- nized thatforsome, this may notbe possible, butthere needs to be more attention and effort put into abstinence-based recovery foreveryone who is seeking help — when they are ready.

Continuing to pourmore money into harm reduction services, including replacement therapies and drug testing kits,may help save lives today, butthey won’tend the cycle of addiction. Right now, across the province, there are an abundance of beds availablein private recovery facilities with a proven track record of getting people off drugs — beds that sit empty because government is not funding them. In 2001, Portugaltook the step of decriminalizingthe pos- session and consumption of certain levels of drugs, taking the issueoutof the legalsystem and puttingitinto the health system.

British Columbia, and Canada as a whole, should follow Portugal’s lead. However, whatis often lostin the con- versation aboutthe Portuguese modelis thattheirgoalis to get people well and to have people not using drugs at all. Portugal’s m odelincludes prevention, dissuasion, harm reduction, treatm ent, recovery and reintegration. I think, rightnow in British Columbia, we are m aking greatstrides in harm reduction, butwe’re lacking in prevention, dissua- sion and, m ost importantly, treatm ent, reintegration and recovery.

In Portugal, individuals with substance use disorders are considered to be individuals thatneed healthand socialcare, notacriminalrecord. When aperson is found using oris in possession of drugsforpersonaluse, they are referred to the Commi ssion forthe Dissuasion of DrugAddiction within72 hours. There they are assessed foravariety of factors, includ- ing family and socialhistory, psychosocialstatus and more. The intervention is targeted forthe individual’s need. If they are found to be in possession of amountsoverthe limitsof personal use, they are sent to jail.

In Portugal, there are support systems in placefor fam- ilies,all centred on the Commi ssion for the Dissuasion of Monday, February 19, 2018 British Columbia Debates 2671

Drug Addiction. There are a variety of options when someone is caught using drugs or overdoses, ranging from a fine to assistance with recovery and treatment.Whatthey don’twantis peopleto be in a vicious cycleof using drugs and neverhavingthe opportunity of accessibility to, ortreat- ment in, abstinence-based treatment centres. The framework for Portugal’s approach is based on the idea thatsubstance use shouldbe stopped and thatgovern- ment has a strong rolein pushing individuals in that dir- ection. In Portugal, peoplewith substanceuse disorders are guided through recovery to getwell.

The goalis to help those who want to getback to becoming participants in society back to health. Ourlocalsocieties,like the LastDoorSociety and Cedars, at CobbleHill, are currently providing long-term help for people and their families and have beds available today. Right now only the very poor, those with means or those with extended health care plans can access these types of recovery facilities. If we’re going to tacklethis crisis head- on, we need a multifaceted approach thatdoesn’tlose sight of allthe options on the tableto help those with substance use issues.

This includesprevention, assessment,treatment, harm reduction and stable recovery. Stablerecovery recognizesthe personal, socialand envir- onmentalresourcesthatcan be broughtto bearon maintain- ing remission and long-term recovery.

We need to getto the rootof the problem,which couldinvolve childhood trauma, abuse or neglect.We need to recognize thatstablerecovery can take alongtime and can come withrelapses,justlike any other chronic physical illness. [10:25 a.m.] Recovery includes relapse prevention skills, healthy life- styles,exercise and nutrition, with afocus on mentoring and family involvement.Peoplein recovery can become healthy, productive comm unity members, and investmentsin recov- ery comm unity centres orschools have been shown to work in many jurisdictions. I look forward to continuing my discussion in a moment. M.

Dean: Thank you so much to the memberfor North Vancouver–Seymour. I couldn’tagree more thatwe doabso- lutely need a range of services.They need to be accessible. They need to be non-stigmatizing as well. What’s really importantin deliveringservicesin this areais understanding the need forprevention and understanding the causes — the impactof trauma and of a range of vulnerabilities thatcan actually exacerbate issues as well. I’d like to take this opportunity to say how very proudI am of this governmentforcreating a Ministry of MentalHealth and Addictions.

We have a minister whose soleresponsib- ility is making sure that this government addresses these issues.Already, in my comm unity and across the province, I know thatthere are fantastic peopleworking in the profes- sion, in the sector, who are engaging in research and looking into bestpracticesmodels and who wouldlike to implement those on behalf of British Columbians. Myself, I’ve had three decades, nearly, of working in this area, and I’ve hadconcerns.

I’ve been delivering m en- tal health and addiction services in my constituency of Esquimalt-Metchosin.Even in acomm unity where we had som e of the fastest-growing comm unities in the wholeof the province, overthe pastten years, we actually saw cuts in servicesforcomm unity-based m entalhealth and addic- tion services. A particular program thatused to serve about100 adults in the comm unity in any given year was cut, and within three years, RCMP saw a 50 percentincrease in the number of incidentsthat they were responding to where there was a mental health concern in the comm unity.

So I’m really pleased, today, to be ableto respond to the memberand talk aboutwhatourgovernmenthas done and how seriously we are taking this issue across the whole spectrum. Of course, itis a crisis as well. There’s an overdose crisis thatwe need to tackleas wellas the wholespectrum of men- talhealth and addictions needs. There were 1,422 overdose deaths in 2017, which was a 43 percentincrease, compared to 2016. Last year was the deadliest for overdose deaths in the province’s history, with an average of fourdeaths perday. These are people. These are the neighbours thatwe heard our other member talk about.

This is a provincial issue, and in the constituency of Esquimalt-Metchosin,itis a comm unity issue. We have hot spots in our comm unity where the rates of overdoses and deaths are actually higherthan the average. Ourfirstrespon- ders are exposed to human crisesoutsidetheiroffices,on the streets,as wellas on call-outs.The numbers of peopledying are staggering, and the human impact is unspeakable. Familiesin my constituency regularly talk to me and tell me about how they want our government to address this crisis. We’re all saying that we can do more and must do more to end this.

Today I say to everybody: think aboutwhat you can do, and please take action. I wantto say how proudI am of allof ourfirstresponders and how they’ve been hand- ling this public health emergency. It’s very complex.There isn’tjustone simplesolution. Our governmentis taking an all-of-government,whole-province approach to the overdose crisis. We’re focusing funding on the ground, in comm unities, to fightthe crisis and to make sure thatfunding is invested where it’s needed the most— to save lives and create a pathway to hope and recovery.

In September last year, our government announced $322 million in funding overthe nextthree years to combat the overdose crisis. In December, we launched ournew pro- vincialoverdose emergency response centre, building com- munity action teams on the ground in comm unitiesthatare hitby the overdose crisis. We’ve also dedicated an additional $1.5 million of funding from this year’s budgetforgrantsfor othercomm unitiesthatneed the resourcesto fightthis issue.

We’re expanding the availability of naloxone kits,and we’ve made drug testing more widely available as well. [10:30 a.m.] Government is working with Indigenous partners, too, 2672 British Columbia Debates Monday, February 19, 2018

and othersectors to save lives and provide betterand more culturally appropriate supportto FirstNations and Indigen- ous comm unities to address this crisis. We are taking an all-of-province approach and a whole broad spectrum of approach to develop a bettersystem for mental health and addictions care. We know that we need understanding of the causes of mental health and addictions issues and how people are mostvulnerableand how peopleare working hard to putthe building blocks in placeacross the levels of need.

The goalof everything we’re doing is to save lives and to connectpeople to treatment and recovery as soon as possible. J. Thornthwaite: Thank you to the memberfor Esquim- alt-Metchosin for her comm ents. The otheraspectof addictions and mentalhealth is pre- vention and early intervention. While millions are being poured into addressing the opioid crisis now, I worry that we’llforgetaboutyouth struggling in schools with unidenti- fied or untreated mentalillness, which eventually may lead to substance use.

The Foundry, a one-stop-shop initiative, is a great first step thatimproves access to mentalhealth servicesforyouth and their families.But we also need to be getting to kids earlier. Thatmeans in the schools. Teachers are oftenthe best at identifying if a childhas mental health needs, and there shouldbe imm ediate supportsin placeforthose needs when they are identified. Certainly, recentresearch that’s come out has definitely givencredenceto more supportsin the schools that actually work.

The North Vancouverschooldistricthas already reached out to government with a proposal to coordinate services between the Foundry in North Vancouver and the school district.We need to ensure thatthe children and the youth who presentatschools getthe help they need imm ediately and thatconnections forservicescan happen where they are — in the schools. Mountainside Secondary in North Vancouver is already on the right track in integrating mental health services in theirschool.

We need to do more in allof B.C.’s schools to offertimely help when studentsare identified as struggling and to provide appropriate servicesas soon as possible— withinweeks, notmonths. We need to listen to the successes of schools like MountainsideSecondary and copy theirsuc- cesses in all school districts provincewide. We know what works and what doesn’t. Government needs to continue to m ake m ental health, addictions and recovery a governmentpriority and work togetherto give peoplehope and opportunity fortheirlives and theirfam- ilies. ARTISTIC EXPRESSION AS A QUALITY OF LEADERSHIP J.

Routledge:Today I rise to talk aboutcreative expression as a quality of leadership, as an important political skill. Now, I don’twantanyone jumping to the conclusion thatI intend to spend my time justifying the stereotype thatpoliti- cians make thingsup.

I know that,atthe very least,you may be wondering why I wouldchoose a topic that must seem frivolous in the faceof the so many overwhelming crises we grapplewith in this House every day — like surgical wait- lists, homelessness, wildfires that consumed much of our province lastsumm er, the unprecedented numberof drug- related deaths and so many young British Columbians who have simply givenup believingthey willeverhave agood job or own a home.

It is because so many British Columbians seem to have lowered theirexpectations and have accepted the inevitab- ility of poverty within the midst of plenty, of catastrophic weather, of daily stress and insecurity that I want to talk about creativity and politics. I ask: how can we hope to builda betterworldif we are incapableof imagining what a better worldwill look like?

How can we fix the socialills thatstalk ourfamiliesand com- munities if we can’teven imagine whatitfeels like to sleep in a doorway, to be in so much physicalorpsychicpain that we’ll gambleour lives on the temporary release of a street drugorto feelthe indignity of lying in ourown filth, waiting for an overworked care aide to come and tend to our needs? [10:35 a.m.] Sadly, the work of imagining, interpreting our experi- encesand expressing ourfeelings had long been relegated to the artists and poets. John Lennon’s Imagine had us all singing about a world without war or hunger.

Martin Luther King’s “I Have a Dream” speech inspired the civil rights m ovement. Just last Thursday, on the steps of this Legislature, the Butterfliesin Spirit dancers invited us to feel som e of their loss and grief. It’s an unfortunate feature of the m odern age that cre- ativity has becom e disconnected from the serious business of m aking m oney, passing laws, curing disease and invent- ing new technology. This separation of art from science isn’t new.

It’s part of the binary thinking that has been embedded in ourpredominantworldview for atleast300 years — science, art; reason, passion; logical, irrational; strong, weak; serious, frivolous; m ale, female. I don’tthink I need to explain which column is deemed to have m ore value in our society. There are many ways up-and-down binary valuesare sig- nalled to us. For example, we’re all familiar with the term “starving artist.” But a starving scientist? That just doesn’t make sense. I needed science and math creditsto getinto university, and I was in an artsprogram. Buthigh schoolart? That’s an elective.

In short, our society has come to overvalue rationality and undervalue creativity. Itbegsthese questions: does soci- ety producepoliticians with underdeveloped imaginations? If politicians couldthink and actmore imaginatively, would we be ableto come up with more effective solutions to the problems that challenge the peoplewe represented? Might we even avoid playing a rolein creating those problems in Monday, February 19, 2018 British Columbia Debates 2673

the firstplace?I believe the answeris yes. Ourability to reas- on is of course useful, because itarranges ourideas, butima- gination is also an importantmodeof mentalaction because it creates new ideas. I have anotherquestion for us to consider: if creativity is an essentialpoliticalskill, one thathelps us think outsidethe box and feelempathy for those affected by ourdecisions, is itsomething we can and shoulddevelop withinourselves as politicians? Again, my answer is yes.

Now, I’d like to go on and talk aboutsome of the ways I think we can develop oursense of creativity, but I’d like to hear from the member opposite about his thoughts about this as well. S. Gibson: Thanks to the memberfor Burnaby North for bringing up this ratherintriguing topicthis morning — one of the more interesting topics that we’ve been engaged in here lately in our Legislature. I wouldagree thatthere is an aesthetic sideto leadership. There’s a dimension which we don’talways consider, and as was noted by the member, I think it’s importantthatwe dis- cuss thata littlebitthis morning.

I think, too, aboutleader- ship in itspurest form. Leadership shouldmotivate, and it should inspire. I had the privilege of teaching university students for many years. I hadabusiness course, and I’d ask the students: “How many of you work fora manager?” They allhadpart- time jobs. They all put their hand up. I’d ask them: “How many of you work fora leader?” Nobody puttheirhand up. They said: “Well, Simon, what’s the difference?” Well, aman- ager implements, but a leaderinspires.

I think that’s a bit aboutwhatwe’ve been hearing this morning from the mem- ber opposite. [10:40 a.m.] I go running in the mornings around here to getready formy day, and I run around these streetsof Victoria.When I come past this building, I realizethat the leadership that inspired this building to be constructed hadadeep aesthetic sense. Look, even in this room here, atthe design, the beauty of the architecture. Now, this building willcome down atsome point.It’s not permanent.Itwillcome down, like allbuildings willeven- tually. Butfor now, it’s something we enjoy, we savour.

The leadership that got this building up and designed, all the stained glass and the architecture…. It’s worth remembering that somebody designed it so many years ago. I think we’re inspired by the beauty of this place. Artistic expression is found everywhere we look, and even if you’re notthatinterested in art,you are motivated by it.If you go to amovie thatinspiresyou — the valuesof it— itkeeps you going for a few weeks. My motherwas an artist,a painter. She didoiland water- colour. She passed away since I was elected to the Legis- lature. I was always inspired by herpaintings.Many of them are up in ourhouse.

I have a littlebitof thatartistic sense. I do cartooning, and I have submitted 24 cartoons to New Yorker magazine. They’ve all been rejected, so I’ve decided now to switch to the New Yorker cartoon contest.Every week I submit,and one day I’m going to make it.You’llhearabout that in the Legislature. I’ll be making that announcement. Seriously, though, my daughternow has done artfor two children’s books. She was inspired by her grandmother. In politics,we tend to look atthe facts,the numbers and that side of life. But what will be our legacy when we step asideand turn overourseatto someone else?

Itprobably will in part be the aesthetic side of what we’ve done here. We envisage a betterworld. We imagine it.I don’tknow whatI was thinking when I firstgotelected 37 years ago to the Abbotsford council. I didn’timagine whatwouldhappen, and here I am, allowed to serve the peopleof my comm unity in the Legislature. Herman Melvillesaid this: “It’s betterto failin originality than to succeed in imitation.” I believe each of us around this room has a specialsense of ourpurpose here. We rep- resent our constituents,whether it’s from the far north, as my colleague here, from the Cariboo, from the Chilcotins.

Wherever it is, we all bring that sense of caring. I’m thankfulforthis topic. It’s an interesting one. I wasn’t quite sure whatI was going to expecthere, so I hadto tailor my message a littlebitin reply. Buta good topic.Thank you to the member for Burnaby North for bringing it forward, and thank you, hon. Speaker, for allowing me to speak to it. J. Routledge: Thank you to the m emberopposite forhis very thoughtful, inspiring and m otivational words about this topic. I stated earlierthat I thought politicians can and should develop, shouldhone, ourcapacity to be creative. Buthow?

Many of us who have chosen the rational, practicalpath in life are pretty self-conscious about being creative. We say thingslike: “Oh, I don’thave an artisticbone in my body” or “I couldn’t carry a tune in a bucket.” Letme ask you this. When you were two years old, were you toldto give up trying to walk, because you justweren’t very good atit,orto forgeteating, because you hadso much troublefinding yourmouth with yourspoon, orto stop try- ingto have aconversation, because no one couldunderstand what you were saying? Of course not. Because doing those things was considered essential life skills.

Somewhere along the line, many of us gotthe ideathatwe couldn’tsing or couldn’tdraw or couldn’tdance or couldn’t tell a story, and we gave up trying because none of those things were considered essential. A few years ago I started painting. I guess itwas a hobby, a pastime. I wasn’treally very good atit.Butthe process of trying to capture an image, the process of trying to comm u- nicate amomentthathadmeaningto me and to doitin such a way that someone looking at my painting couldsee that meaning…. Well, itchanged my relationship with the world around me.

I started seeing details and connections I hadn’t seen before. I suspecteveryone in this chamberhas ahobby, apastime, 2674 British Columbia Debates Monday, February 19, 2018

a way they express their creativity. We call it recreation because it creates us again and again. [10:45 a.m.] Almost 200 years ago, the poet Shelley declared that “poets are the unacknowledged legislators of the world.” Two hundred years laterwe can puta rocketinto spaceor blow up this planet,butwe stillhaven’tfigured outhow to end worldpoverty. Perhaps it’s time to reunite artand sci- ence before it’s too late. ADDRESSING FAMILY PHYSICIAN SHORTAGES L. Throness:I rise in the House today to speak to agrow- ingproblem,and that’s the shortage of family doctors in B.C.

I was surprised last October to find from the Minister of Health, during the estimates process, thatmy city of Chilli- wack has almost25 percent,exactly 23,327 people, without afamily doctor. The situation is worse in Agassiz, in my rid- ing, with 26 percentof my residentswithoutafamily doctor. Provincewide23 percentof British Columbians don’thave access to a family physician. I see this as a gathering crisis, and the crunch is only going to getworse as physicians from the baby boom generation begin to retire.

I wrote to FraserHealth abouttheirplans to recruitdoc- tors, and they replied thatthey don’tdothat.It’s the respons- ibility of the localdivisions of family practice. So I metwith the division in Chilliwack and found that Fraser Health providesno fundingforrecruitment.We have localdivisions of family practicescrambling to find money to help attract doctors to our comm unities, and there’s no provincial recruitment drive at all. I find that quite astounding. I also find it incrediblethat the Fraser Health Authority alone has 27,000 employees. It’s a massive organization.

Our healthsystem has an enormous cost— $20 billion ayear. But there is adire shortage of the mostbasiclevelof care — that is, a family doctor to see your kid when he’s sick. There are otheranomaliesacross the system. The district of Hope, nextdoor to Chilliwack, is wellserved by doctors. In fact, they’re taking on patients there. Saltspring Island, with 11,000 people, enjoys 15 family doctors.

Why do these types of shortages and imbalances exist, and whatcan the governmentdo aboutit?Well, ourhealth care system is known as a comm and-and-control system, where we don’tdepend on the forcesof supply and demand, as expressed through market pricing, to allocate health resources. Our system reminds me of the oldSovietUnion, which woulddecideatthe beginningof the yearhow many shoesto produce, and atyears’ end, there wouldbe eithertoo many shoes or too few. They would get it wrong, by definition, because no one can predict the future.

By contrast, a modern marketeconomy functions more efficiently, because the forcesof supply and demand operate on a moment-to-momentbasis, using marketpricesas sig- nals for change. I wouldpointoutthatwe don’thave ashortage of dentists in Chilliwack, because it’s a private system, and the market takes care of the allocation of labour. This explains why we have waiting lists in our public-only health care system. When you can pay privately, you can getyoursurgery done tomorrow, as in the States.

When the publicpays, you have to waitforit.Butthe peopleof Canadaand of B.C. have con- sistently supported a public-only system. Strangely enough, even though we have a comm and-and- controlsystem where we mustactively manage every partof health care, we do nottake the same approach with doctors. We train them, and then we setthem free to make theirown decisions. Here I want to affirm our doctors. They’re great people. They’re working very hard.

I hada doctor phone me to tell me thathe has 4,500 patients.He’s working 14 hours a day, and he’s burning out.Ourdoctors are heroes, butthey lack information about the big picture, so they naturally act in their own best interests, just as we all do. For example, doctors can work the hours they want,full- orpart-time. They can setup a practicewhereverthey want ormove to orfrom a comm unity wheneverthey want.They can work in ahospital, in an emergency room orsome other clinicalsetting, or they can specialize, atwill.

In short,they can choose not to be a family physician, and obviously, it’s not the most popular choice. The problem in the system is thatwe don’tgive direction to doctors. We do itwith nurses, with lab techs, with 27,000 workers in the FraserHealth Authority. We tellthem: “You have to show up at this hospitalat this time and work this shift.” They don’t have a choice. This is not a sign of dis- respect to those employees. This respects the needs of patients who are ill.

Almost everyone who is paid by the publicpurse, like myself, like us in this House, mustbe in a certain placeata certain time to serve the public. The solution is eitherto introducemarketforcesinto our health care system orforthe system to take steps to allocate physician resources. I think British Columbians prefer the single-payer system. [10:50 a.m.] Letme explain whatthe governmentcoulddo withinthe confines of our present system. First, the government can train more doctors, and it ought to do that, but this is expensive. I have anothersolution thatwouldn’tcostthe government a penny.

The government,or perhaps the College of Physi- cians and Surgeons, couldsimply become more assertive in allocating physician resourcesand say to a doctor, “Do you wantto move outof Chilliwack?

If you wantto practise in B.C., we’d like you to stay in Chilliwack fora coupleof more years,” or say: “We need you to be a family physician for a littlewhilelongerbefore you become an ear, nose and throat specialist.” We need to be able to say: “For the first three years aftermedicalschool, we’re asking you to practise in a ruralarea of ourchoosing.” We shouldbe ableto say: “We Monday, February 19, 2018 British Columbia Debates 2675

need full-time doctors, not part-time ones.” Now, it’s true thatyoungerphysicians don’twantthe pun- ishing schedulesthatdoctors keptin the past.I don’tblame them forthat.ButI wentoverthe latestbluebook and found thatroughly a third of physicians billless than the average, which means that for whatever reason, many are working part-time. That’s one contributing factorto a million people in B.C. withoutafamily doctor. So I’m encouraging the gov- ernment or the college to exert a measure of control over the situation and allocate physician supply.

The placement of reasonable, fairly minorrestrictions on doctors wouldnot need to affect current doctors but future ones. We wouldletallmed schoolcandidates know thatin the future, there willbe parameters around theirpracticeso that the needs of the comm unity willcome before theirown, and they wouldagree to these parameters as acondition of enter- ing med school.

For sure, some candidates woulddrop out and say: “I don’twantto be a doctor, then.” Butthe compet- ition to getinto med schoolis so fierce thatthere wouldbe plenty of others who wouldbe happy to practise underreas- onable guidelines laid out by our system. We have to answerthis basicquestion: “Whatcomes first — the healthneeds of the peopleof B.C. orthe free agency of doctors?” We in this placeare bound to the publicinterest.

The needs of the peopleof B.C. mustcome first.I callupon the government to bring before this House policy or legis- lation thatwillensure a sufficient,rationaland more equit- abledistribution of family doctors across every area of this province and into the future. I want to close by thanking doctors, by affirming their hard work and dedication and by appealing to theirunder- standing in this most important matter. J. Rice: The previous government’s focus was on GPs. Ourview is to turn to team-b ased care, where health pro- fessionals work together to get patients the support they need.

This includes nurses, nurse practitioners, phar- m acists and other health care providers working in con- cert to help people. Our focus is to institute team-b ased care and to create urgent care centres. Urgent care centres wouldallow peopleto be treated by nurses. We wouldbe ableto pay and incentivize the whole team, including nurse practitioners, notjustdoctors. Nurse practitioners are so underappreciated, yetthey have a high levelof training and a broad scope of practice. They would provide better primary care so as to keep people out of crowded emergency rooms.

Less than one-third of doctors report having arrange- mentsfor patientsafterhours. It’s no wonderthatin places like Surrey and Chilliwack orplacesin ruralB.C., even those with a family doctor don’t have access to care. It tends to pushpeopleto the ER because there is no appropriate service afterhours oron weekends. So we are proposing and work- ing on establishing urgent care centres that will work with the divisions of family practice to improve access to care, especially after hours. For a long time, the previous government failed to reform primary care.

They focused on incentivizing doc- tors with a fee-for-service system. Other provinces have changed the structure and organization of primary care, m oving towards team-b ased m odels of care and away from fee-for-servicecompensation for doctors. Othercountries have also implemented incentive paym ents for doctors, but unlike B.C., these m odels were tied to reporting improved patient outcom es.

The costly incentive implemented underthe previous gov- ernment was a $315 annual payment made to doctors, on top of regular patient visits,for providing ongoing care for complexpatients,those thathave multiplechronicillnesses. British Columbia now spends more than $50 million a year on this singleincentive and another$100 million on similar extrapaymentsforobstetrics,mentalhealth ormanagement of individual chronic diseases. The incentive paymentsfor doctors failed to achieve the stated goalof improvingprimary care forpatients.Foralong time, the previous governmentfailed to reform primary care.

Otherjurisdictions are farahead, and we have alotof catch- ingup to do, butwe’re goingto leverage on theirexperiences. [10:55 a.m.] The GP for Me program failed, where itwas promised in the 2013 election. Itwas said thatby 2015, everyone would have an attachmentto a family doctorornurse practitioner. But today, still, one in six British Columbians don’t have access to a family doctor. It’s a significantproblem. Butthe only way to startresolving these problems is to startone step at a time, and that’s exactly what we are doing. L. Throness:I’d like to thank the memberforNorth Coast for her response.

Her idea of delivering service, like an urgent care centre, is a nice thing. It may result in better- quality health care. Itmightresultin more convenience for patientsorreduced emergency room visits.Allthatis good. Butteam-based care is virtually irrelevantto doctor supply. Itwon’tsolve the problemI’ve described. Like so many other so-called health care reforms overthe years, like the internal markets of the 1990s, little will really change. I fearthatthe governmentis using the ideaof team-based care to tinker with fee-for-service payments, and I would oppose that.

We need to give the incentive to physicians to see many patients, and fixed salaries for doctors would remove that incentive and actually worsen the shortage, so that’s very important. We have a human resource allocation problem on our hands, and we have the capacity to solve it. Right now we have a comm and-and-control health system in general but a free-marketsystem for doctors alone. The two systems do not mesh. They’re not working well together.

If we want to retain a single-payer system in which the governmentpays allthe bills, we mustharm onize the allocation of physician labour with all the other kinds of labour we have in our health authorities. This idea might notbe welcom ed by the physician comm unity atfirst.But 2676 British Columbia Debates Monday, February 19, 2018

I wouldrepeat,first,thatrestrictions wouldbe reasonable, and second, they wouldnotapply to currentdoctors, only future ones. The government tried to do this years ago by restricting billing numbers, but this was struck down by the courts. Given the worsening situation today, thatkind of restriction may well be seen as reasonable by the courts today. Again, I call on upon the government, or the College of Physicians and Surgeons, to become more proactive in the allocation of physician human resources, in the interest of the one million British Columbians without a family doc- tor.

At the very least, requestscouldbe sent now to physi- cians askingthem to take on more patientsorfewerpatients, to stay longerin one placeormove to another, to specialize now orholdoff on specializingforawhile— in the hope that moral suasion alone could change behaviour. To close, I wouldonceagain appealto physicians to recog- nizethatthere wouldbe broadpublicbenefitand, therefore, broad publicsupport for a body with an overview of the entire provinceto become more assertive with respectto the allocation of physician resources.This is an urgentmatterof the public interest. Hon. S. Robinson: I call Motion 1.

Deputy Speaker: On Motion 1, we don’t need leave of the House because it’s No. 1. So I’ll ask Surrey-Guildford to proceed. Private Members’ Motions MOTION 1 — AFFORDABLE POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION G. Begg: [Be itresolved thatthis House recognizethe importanceof affordable post-secondary education that ensures success in a rapidly growing modern economy.] It is my great pleasure to rise today to speak about the importance of recognizing the importance of affordable post-secondary education thatwillensure oursuccess in the rapidly growing modern economy. [L.

Reid in the chair.] In orderforus to debate this essentialissue, it’s import- antthatwe setthe properstage fordiscussion. Putyourself back in time — say, 20 years ago. Couldyou have predicted the success of the web, tabletsand smartphones, privatized spacetravel, the rise of terrorism or any of the otherlarge and small changes that have an impact on us today and how we all live? Couldyou imagine thata leaderof a small, hermitnation couldboastof his country’s ability to reach the continental United States with a nuclear-armed missile— and to know that such technology exists?

We are fully in the midst of a technological and educational revolution that has trans- formed and willcontinue to transform ourworldand allof its inhabitants. [11:00 a.m.] It’s absolutely imperative that we, all of us, come to grip with the realities thatwe facein this province and equip all British Columbians with the important tools of affordable post-secondary education that ensures theirsuccess in our exciting and rapidly growing economy here and allaround the world. “A good hockey player plays where the puck is.

A great hockey player plays where the puck is going to be.” These words were attributed to the hockey great Wayne Gretzky. I think itis an aptanalogy for where I hope allof us want to position ourselves as we seek to prepare this province by ensuring ourpost-secondary educationalinstitutions groom our students for success. What kind of future are we facing today? The United Statesis stillthe world’s largesteconomy, butChinais rapidly closing the gap. The economic growth in China has slowed from doubledigitsto around 7 percentannually.

Butit’s now so large that it will continue to affect the world economy much greater than it ever did in the past.

Given the globalinterconnected challenges of sustainable development, peaceful and inclusive society-building and climate change mitigation and adaptation, it’s essential to prioritize knowledge and skills that are linked to 21st-cen- tury livelihoods, conflict resolution and sustainable devel- opment.These skills includecriticalthinking, problem-solv- ing and relevantcontentknowledge like environmentaland climate change education, disaster risk reduction and pre- paredness, sustainableconsumption and lifestyles,and green technical and vocational education and training.

We allagree, I hope, thateducation is the mosteffective means thatsociety possesses for confronting the challenges of the future. In fact,I believe itcan be argued thateducation will shape the world of tomorrow. CharlesDarwin is often quoted as the author of the fam- ous phrase aboutthe survivalof the fittestthatsuggeststhat it is only the strongest that survive. That’s something that CharlesDarwin did not say. In fact, he said: “It is not the strongestof the speciesthatsurvives,northe mostintelligent that survives.

It is the one that is most adaptable to change.” There shouldbe no doubtthatwe are now, and for allof the future willbe, in aconstantstate of change. Indeed, ithas been widely said thatthe only constantis change. We live in aworldthatis changing atarate thatis much greaterthan at any time in ourhistory. If we are to be prepared forourinev- itablefuture, ourpost-secondary educations mustopen the doors and provide the tools to prepare us for that future. Progress has and will increasingly depend upon the productsof educated minds — upon research, invention, innovation and adaptation.

Of course, educated minds and instincts apply not only in our laboratories and research institutes butin every walk of life. I hope thatthis House Monday, February 19, 2018 British Columbia Debates 2677

now recognizes the importanceof affordablepost-second- ary education that ensures success in a rapidly growing economy. S. Cadieux: Thank you to the memberfor Surrey-Guild- ford for his comm entary. I think we would all agree that the worldis in a constantstate of change and that,certainly, one of the things we can counton is thatchange — and, of course, taxes. The member has raised this issue of the need for and the importance of affordablepost-secondary education in a rapidly growing modern economy.

I wonderwhy the word “affordable” was there. [11:05 a.m.] The memberdidn’ttalk atallaboutthe costof post-sec- ondary education or the cost of providing that wonderful and rapidly changingeducation forthe worldas itgrows and changes and as technology becomes more and more a part of ourlives. As thattechnology changes atsuch arapid pace, ever-increasing, the costforthe education system of provid- ing and keeping up with thatchange is also ever-increasing. Thatmeans, of course, thatthatcostfalls to someone, be it the studentsor the system. When it falls to the system, of course, that means it falls to taxpayers.

I willcertainly agree with the memberthatpost-second- ary education is everso important,evermore importantin our economy today. As a member earlierspoke about the challengesin oursociety today of growingincome inequality and of poverty, the reality is thata good job is stillthe best way outof poverty. And to geta good job, one needs a good education. Thatis evermore truetoday with technology jobs now outpacing those of labour, with the days of family-sup- porting jobs on the green chain gone and more and more service jobs at low-paying wages replacing those.

We are challenged for individuals without skills and withouthighereducation to be ableto supporttheirfamilies. So I think the importanceof post-secondary education can’t be understated for both our students and our future as a province. By 2025, almost eight in ten job openings will require post-secondary education. Post-secondary education ensures that students and young peopletoday and olderpeoplewho may be retraining are equipped forthose jobs of the future and to take advant- age of those opportunities.

Peoplewho are trained contrib- ute to askilled labourforce, and theirhard work willhelp to ensure that our economy remains strong and growing. I think everyone knows that numerous studies have shown that British Columbians with an undergraduate degree willearn more in theirlifetime — between $800,000 and $1 million more — meaning that that investment in one’s education is highly valuableand highly profitable. Stu- dentsare recognizing it. There are now more than 200,000 full-time studentsin this province, more than 50,000 more than in 2001.

That’s all the more reason that British Columbia and the governmentneed to continue to investin our post-secondary system. I’m proud that our government invested more than $3.3 billion in capitalprojectsoverourtime in government and had commi tted to another billion in the three years going forward.

I’m sure this governmentwillbe continuing to invest in that because those investments in capital and infrastructure are also required forthatpost-secondary sys- tem to exist.We were investing in innovation with the open textbook program, which helped nearly 34,000 studentssave almost$3.9 million in the lastfive years alone. These kinds of advancesare thingsthatI wouldhope willcontinueunder this government. While we talk a lot about the cost of post-secondary education, it’s important to get the facts on the record as well.

On average, B.C. students pay about a third of the real cost of their education, and the taxpayers pay the rest. In 2016-17, British Columbia students paid the fourth lowestundergraduate tuition fees in allof Canada. In Budget2017, last February, our government had com- mitted to reducing the interestrate on studentloans by 2.5 percent,a promise I’m gladthe governmenttoday contin- ued to follow through with. The value of post-secondary education can’t be understated. M.

Elmore: I’m very pleased to speak to the motion moved by the memberforSurrey-Guildford: “Be itresolved thatthis House recognizethe importanceof affordablepost- secondary education thatensures success in a rapidly grow- ing modern economy.” [11:10 a.m.] Like my colleagues before, talking about the increased need for folks to have some type of post-secondary educa- tion training, be itcontinuing adulteducation, skilled trade apprenticeships, college diploma or a university degree…. It’s anticipated that in the nextten years, 78 percent of job openings will require this type of education.

Where are we now in British Columbia? We hada report from the ConferenceBoard of Canada thatdetermined that the skills gap in British Columbia, to the current date, has costoureconomy $7.9 billion and has costourgovernment $600 million in tax revenue annually. That’s a gap in terms of the ability to have skilled workers to meetthe needs in our province. We know that the B.C. Tech Association has said thatthere are 30,000 tech jobs thatcan’tbe filled with B.C. workers because we aren’t training enough here at home. That’s where we are now.

I think we have to appreciate where we’ve come from, how we gotto this point.It’s characterized by the prioritiesof the previous Liberalgovernmentover16 years. They madethe prioritiesto have subsidiesto the top 2 percentin taxcutsto millionaires and to increase fees — record high tuition and record high student debt for our students. What’s the reality? We know that tuition fees doubled since 2001. Tuition fees have notonly doubled, butif you go to post-graduate — so eitheryourm aster’s orto pursue yourPhD — thathas tripled. That’s the reality forstudents in B.C.

As well, there are new tuition fees for apprentice- 2678 British Columbia Debates Monday, February 19, 2018

ships and adultswho want to complete their high school education. In 2002, grants were eliminated for first-year students. In 2004, the grant program was eliminated entirely. The B.C. loan reduction program for high-needs students was discontinued in 2008. And we know thatthe average student debtis the highestin Canada. That’s the reality in terms of the inaccessibility and the crisis in affordability in oureduca- tion system underthe previous decisions by the B.C. Liberal government over 16 years.

In addition to that, we know that besides record high tuition fees and the record high student debt, B.C. had the highest student loan interest rate in Canada — prime plus 2.5 percent. The former Minister of Advanced Education, now the Leaderof the OfficialOpposition, actually directed universitiesto increase mandatory fees on students,in addi- tion, to getaround the 2 percenttuition cap. This was really the record in terms of how students in our province saw increasingfees— to pay to go into record debt— and also in terms of making itmore difficultforstudentsto getthe skills that they need. That’s the reality.

Our government has m ade it a priority to address affordability for British Columbians. Whathave we done? We have reduced the studentinterestrate, reduced the 2.5 percent, and we are m oving towards reducing interest on student loans. We have eliminated fees for folks who want to complete their adult basic education, high school and English lan- guage learning. Itwas really atrocious. As well, we are look- ing at supporting students and increasing the number of tech seats at B.C. colleges and universities, waiving tuition for former youth in care — right? — in terms of ensuring that they have opportunities.

We are taking steps, as well, to invest in British Columbians, to address affordability, to ensure British Columbians have opportunities and that they can afford to upgradetheirskills to be successful. We’re investing in people, ensuring thatpubliceducation is affordableso that folks have opportunities. Notonly do they benefit,butthat is the way forward. That’s the priority of ourgovernment.We have heard that loud and clear. We are taking a different direction. We are investing in folks.

We’re investing in servicesto ensure that individuals have opportunities here in British Columbia for affordable education to strengthen our economy. M. Morris:Justlistening to the previous memberspeak- ing, a lotof the things thatshe announced were announced underthe governmentthatwe hadbefore the election. It’s a continuation of a lot of the good things that we were doing. [11:15 a.m.] Something the member omitted to talk about was the $1,000 grant that they had promised during the election campaign to give every university graduate — a$1,000 grant.

If you look at the roughly 62,000 graduates that graduate every year, thatwouldhave costthe provinceapproximately $250 million overfouryears — a pretty significantamount of money thatthey omitted, unless we’re going to hearsome news coming up in theirbudgetspeech. It’s, again, another campaign promise that they omitted to follow through on. The original motion was talking about looking forward into the future and the advanced education opportunities thatare comingatus. This wholeentire worldis…. The tech- nology sector is really pushing forward, moving forward in leaps and bounds.

When I look around my district — and I look at the resource sector as an example — and the impact that advanced education has had on the resource sector…. Interjections. Deputy Speaker: Members. M. Morris:You go to Mount Milligan, which is one of the newest mines that opened up underthe previous gov- ernment, a copper mine in the interior of the province up nearmy riding. To walk into the controlroom of thatpartic- ularmine is justamass of large screens.

The technicians that sit at those controls can monitor everything right down to the temperature of individualbearingson ashaftsomewhere in the complex.It’s justamazing thatthey can look atthose kinds of thingsand rectify any problems before they surface into something major. The sawmills that we have in the riding and across the province here…. British Columbia leads the way in the world with technology around the sawmilling part of it.

Years ago we wouldhave a sawmillthatwould— forlack of a better term, we’ll say — put out 100,000 board feetwith about30 to 40 peopleworking on the floor looking afterall the different aspects of the operations. Today we have a mill that doublesthat output and that employs probably in the neighbourhood of six or seven peopleon the floor at any given time because of the com- puter technology that’s involved in running that organiza- tion and the automated systems and the technology thatthey have running that.

We have a trucking company in Prince George that was experiencing a significant number of injuries from their truck drivers, who wouldhave to crawlup the sideof a chip truck and cover the load with tarps. They had articulating pointswith B-train vehicles— so two articulating pointson it— and they were having extreme difficulty, particularly in the wintertime on icy roads. So this company satdown and hadalook atitand developed atruck with asinglearticulat- ingpointand asystem thatdidn’trequire the drivers to crawl up on thatand tarp the loads down. Butthatallstarted with engineers and engineering technologists.

We’ve justhada numberof those seatsgranted in Prince George. Itwas kind of interesting, the value thatthe current governmentputson this. Nobody from governmentshowed up atthe announcementfrom UNBC and CNC when they announced roughly 100 seats for civil engineering and an Monday, February 19, 2018 British Columbia Debates 2679

increase in the numberof environmentalengineering seats and technology seatsatCNC. This is a significantthing for PrinceGeorge and forthe Interior— training peoplein the north, for the north, to keep them in the north. We learned thatthrough the northern medicalprogram, which the B.C. Liberals hadinitiated back in the early 2000s. We’ve trained a number of doctors now, and I recognize many of them thatgrew up in Prince George, wentto high schoolin PrinceGeorge, started university in PrinceGeorge and went through the northern medical program and are now practising family medicine in the PrinceGeorge region.

If we can do the same thing with technologists, with engineers, with physiotherapists— to try and attract more physiotherapistsand speech therapists,occupationaltherap- ists— forthe north and forthe interiorof British Columbia, then that’s when we see advanced education working, which willbenefitallthe citizens of British Columbia,notjustafew that are down in the more populated areas. An advanced education system…. We have a numberof advanced education facilities throughout British Columbia that are underutilized, and I think it’s time, perhaps, that they were all looked at. L.

Krog: I am entirely indebted to the memberforPrince George–Mackenzie for pointing outthe difference between this governmentand thatgovernment.He’s stillshowing up forthe photo ops, which he wouldhave done previously, for the good work that’s being done by this government in its announcements in Prince George. [11:20 a.m.] I justwantto thank him forfulfilling a rolethatthey ful- filled for16 years of photo ops, whilethis government,in six months, actually does the heavy lifting. We are proud of that record, achieved so quickly, early in the mandate. Earlierwe heard the memberforSurrey South.

I’m always appreciative of whatshe has to say. She talked aboutthe cost of post-secondary education. The cost…. Interjections. Deputy Speaker: Members. L. Krog: Well, we getit that education is expensive.

But surely she and othermembers opposite wouldhave seen that wonderfulBCTF bumperstickerfor years thatsaid: “If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.” How is Canada going to compete in the globaleconomy if we are fighting over who pays for the education of its citizens — the technologist that the member for Prince George–Mackenzietalked about,the peoplewho give us the economic advantage to fightin aglobally competitive world? It’s up to the comm unity as a whole. We have always recognized, on this side of the House, thatwe do collectively whatwe cannotdo individually.

And whenwe doitcollectively and we doitwell, we buildabetter, more prosperous and more equitable society. That’s what peopleon this sideof the House wantto do, and thatis why we are standing up for this motion today to recognize the importanceof notjustpost-secondary education butafford- ablepost-secondary education. We understand thatthe suc- cess of oureconomy in a globalworldis going to be entirely dependent upon our skill sets. To rely continuously on the extraction of resources is a dead end, eventually.

If any of the members opposite have read the history of this province, there are comm unities where 5,000 and 10,000 peopleoncelived, where there were operahouses and theatres, comm unities that have disap- peared entirely because the mine petered out or the forest gotlogged away orthe fishdon’tswim there anymore and get caught and processed. If we are to buildasuccessfuleconomy, itwillbe based on oureducation system. It’s why this governmentis pursuing, so hard, increases in post-secondary education in orderto ensure that our young people have a future. Star Wars is allin the news again.

Anotherepisode in the big theatre. Letme talk fora momentabouta distantgalaxy far, far away, in a time a long time ago when young people like the memberfor Nanaimo, speaking now in this Legis- lature, knew that the only way up and out of a smallcom- munity was post-secondary education, when he had access to good, union-paying jobs to pay for tuition, when he had access to post-secondary education thatwas cheap — tuition was cheap relative to the costof everything else — and when opportunities abounded in this province. I wouldhave thoughtthe members wouldremembertheir politicalancestry.

Itwas underthe Socreds, forheaven’s sake. They believed in high union wages. They believed in unions and construction agreements for major projects. They believed in low tuition, because Wacky Bennett saw the future. Dave Barrettsaw the future. Butitseems they have losttheirway. They overthere now have losttheirway. This morning, they’re complainingaboutthe costof post-second- ary education. We are on the sideof history. We wantto move forward. We don’twantto be living in the past.We wantto be there for the future.

As the memberfor Surrey-Guildford so elo- quently putit,quoting Wayne Gretzky, we wantto go where the puck’s going to be. We know the puck isn’tgoing to be where itis today. Thatpuck is moving fasterand fasterthan ithas throughouthistory. We know the rate of technological change is incredible. You only have to readafew of the mod- ern authors to understand that.

I say with greatpride— with agovernmentthatmanaged, afteritsterm in 2013, according to the BMO survey, to end up with student debt per capita in British Columbia at $8,600, athird higherthan the Canadian average and $4,200 higherthan second placeAtlantic Canada — we wantto be on the right side of this argument. We wantto be on the sideof studentsand the future, our children and our grandchildren. We have everything to be proud of. Letthem sit for a few more years in opposition till they can understand what the simpleoldBCTF bump- 2680 British Columbia Debates Monday, February 19, 2018

erstickersaid. As I quoted earlier: “If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.” We on this sideof the House will go for education any day. G. Kyllo: It’s truly an honourto rise and speak to today’s motion.

I think thatallmembers presentcan agree thatthe value of having an accessible, high-quality education cannot be understated. [11:25 a.m.] A good teachercan open yourmind to new waysof think- ing, teachnew skills and provideopportunities,whichis why it’s importantthatwe are actively attracting and keeping tal- ented professors whilesimultaneously making sure thatstu- dentswho choose to pursue post-secondary education are able to do so without excessive financial hardship.

They say thatthe mostsincere form of flattery is imitation, as we’ve seen with the members opposite — with the reduc- tion of the interestrate on studentloans by 2½ percentand the additionalengineering seats.Those were allpartof the B.C. Liberal platform, so it’s good to see that the NDP is actually following through with some of the initiatives that we had undertaken. When itcomes to the use of publictax dollars, I believe thatgovernmentshouldbe using funds to promote and cre- ate institutions that train the next generation for the demands of tomorrow.

Members on this side of the House have created a legacy of investing in forward-thinking post- secondary programs and institutions. Under the watch of the B.C. Liberals, we made record contributions to post-secondary institutions, which were used to help create institutions like TRU, UBCO and three new medical schools. Between 2001 and 2017, 32,000 new seats,including 2,500 graduate student spaces,were added to institutions throughoutthe provinceto improve access to college and university programs. Let’s notforgetthe Industry Training Authority. Notallof the education is in colleges and universities.

We have a lot of education in the tradestraining and apprenticeship pro- grams. They actually providegreateducationalopportunities for young British Columbians, and olderBritish Columbi- ans, thatare looking to take theirplaceand earn theirRed Seal certification for trades. Now, in spite of the new direction, B.C. has some of the highest-performing post-secondary institutions in the world. These institutions deliver world-class instruction while keeping tuition fees lower than in most other provinces in Canada.

I know that some are of the mind or the habit of taking things a step furtherand insisting thatpost-secondary edu- cation become acompletely free service. However, many fail to realizethatstudentsin B.C. are already only paying one- third of the actual cost, with two-thirds of the cost being borne by taxpayers. When we have a look at the opportunities for students to participate in post-secondary education, we also have to focus on the careeror tradestraining thatactually happens in high school. I know for myself…. I’ve got four daughters.

Actually, when two of my daughters went to post-secondary, they spentthe firstyear trying to figure outwhatthey wanted to do. If we have a look ata way to maybe provide some more robust career counselling, we can provide an opportunity for students to have a better understanding of what trade or whatcareerthey wantto pursue and reducethe amount of time thatthey’re spending in post-secondary. Thatalone would save a significant amount of dollars. What we do know is that undera tuition-free program, problems can arise when students choose to drop classes thathave already been paid forby taxdollars.

Thatmoney is then lostwhen classes are dropped and, obviously, cannotbe recovered, leaving British Columbians with the fullbilland, again, wasted tax dollars being spent. Now, in our current system, schools are ableto control theirtuition rates and redirect enrolment dollars back into programs. This, in turn, raises the profile of certain pro- grams, attractsbettertalentand allows universities to retain valuable professors. I wholeheartedly believe in the importanceof maintaining an affordable, flexible post-secondary education system.

However, we must be prudent when it comes to making widespread systematic changes. R. Singh:Itis my pleasure today to speak in favourof this motion. The comm unity thatI come from, Surrey, as we allknow, is the fastest-growing comm unity in B.C. Every year we get so many newcomers. In fact, every month we getso many newcomers coming to this comm unity. The reason they are coming — the reason they make Surrey or B.C. theirhome — is thatthey wanta betterlife notjustforthemselves buta better life for their children. They come here. They work so hard.

We have seen, in recent years, how difficult life has become for the average working family. Most of the constituents in my riding are working two orthree jobs. I’ve heard from so many of them thateven afterworking two or three jobs, ithas become so difficult for them to have a decent living. [11:30 a.m.] One dream thatthey have is thatthey wantto send their kids to post-secondary education. Many of these families are struggling. They were looking upon this beautifulBritish Columbia, and then they were looking atthe governmentto do something for them.

But we know what, in the last 16 years, the governmenthas done. They were justworking for the 2 percent most wealthy peoplein this province, while they were ignoring the average working families. As my colleagueshave already mentioned, tuitions have doubled in the last16 years. The spaceshave been reduced, and I can say this for Surrey, like mostof the studentsand youth living in Surrey. They have to go outsideSurrey to getpost-secondary education. They are spending so much money in post-secondary education. The tuition has Monday, February 19, 2018 British Columbia Debates 2681

doubled, and tripled in some instances.Butthey have to go out,and allthatmoney thatthey are spending, getting out of theircomm unities and going outfor the post-secondary education, is a double burden on the families. As a mother myself, I had my first experience of what these familiesare facing. My son juststarted post-secondary education. I wouldsay that I’m still one of those fortunate people. We are a two-income family. I thoughtthatI would be ableto afford it,butitcame as a big surprise to me how much money itcostto send achildto post-secondary educa- tion.

Justone semesteris costingmore than $6,000 or$7,000, and this is justthe tuition fees I’m talking about.Itis notthe residenceorthe lodgingoranything;itis justthe tuition fees. I think about the familiesthat are struggling — single mothers and newcomers to this country — how they are struggling every day and whata big challenge for them itis to make this dream of sendingtheirkids to getaproperedu- cation so thatthey can getgood jobs, how difficultitis for those families. I’m really happy thatourgovernmentis working forthese families.Our government knows what the real issues are.

They are investing in the programs that will help not just familiesbut these youth to get the proper education and be successful in the future. I’m really proud that this gov- ernment is making getting an education more affordable by reducing and eventually eliminating interest on student loans. We have also eliminated fees foradultbasiceducation and ESL coursesand have waived tuition forformerchildren in care. We are also improving servicesby investing in 2,900 additional tech spaces. This governmentrealizeswhatthe future jobs are going to be in whatsector. That’s why we are putting the resources….

We are putting in more tech spaces.I’m very happy that more than 500 of these tech spacesare in Surrey collegesand universities.We are also creatinggood jobs in the tech sector by partnering with the private sectorand otherlevels of gov- ernment to create good programs. J. Thornthwaite: It’s an honourto rise today and speak to the motion. I think allof this House agreesthatan affordable post-secondary education is integralto ensuring success in today’s economy. A post-secondary education offers areturn on investment, whetheritis a diploma, tradeordegree.

British Columbians with an undergraduate post-secondary degree can expectto earn an additional$827,000 overtheirlifetime. ButI think a componentthatis missing is quality education. Thatis really unfortunate, because BritishColumbiahas some of the finest post-secondary institutions in Canada and the world. During ourtenure in government,B.C. universities rose to the top of the Maclean’s university rankings, m ost recently in 2017, with first placein two categories. UBC is ranked third in the m edical doctoral category, SFU is ranked first,and UVic is ranked third in the comprehens- ive category.

UNBC is ranked firstin the primarily under- graduate category. Underourgovernment,we oversaw the creation of three medicalschools thatdidn’texistpreviously. TRU and UBC Okanagan were created under our government. [11:35 a.m.] We made record investments in post-secondary educa- tion. From the Albertaborderto the westcoastof Vancouver Island, we have universities that are building and growing the ranks of the highly educated workforce of tomorrow. This is why, when we were in government, we focused on helping ourpost-secondary institutions be the bestthatthey couldbe.

We kept tuition the fourth lowest in Canada — $839 less than the Canadian average. Tuition in B.C. is lower than in Alberta,Ontario, Saskatchewan, NovaScotia,Prince Edward Island and New Brunswick. I know that the m embers opposite support our record on post-secondary, since the only Advanced Education announcements in the throne speech were from the B.C. Liberal budget in February. The new engineering seats at TRU and UNBC, the cutting of student loans by 2.5 percent — all reannouncements from our budget.

While keeping tuition am ong the lowest in Canada, we also m adesure thatstudentshadthe bestinstitutions pos- sible in which to learn. I wouldlike to pay tribute to one of those institutions in my comm unity, as they reach a milestone — Capilano Uni- versity. Capilano University is named afterChiefJoe Capil- ano, an important leaderof the Squamish Nation of the CoastSalish people, and 2018 is Capilano University’s 50th anniversary. For half a century, the university has main- tained an internationalreputation forproviding the highest- quality education. Today over 8,000 students attend Capilano University.

There are over 1,000 international studentsand nearly 400 Aboriginalstudents.They have 99 programs, which include 12 bachelor degrees, 28 diplomas and eight post-graduate credentials, although they award bachelordegrees, associate degrees, post-bachelor degrees, advanced diplomas, certi- ficates, and statements of completion. A recent survey by the provincial government found that 93 percent of Cap U graduates were satisfied with their education, which is provided by over 900 faculty and support staff. Capilano offered itsfirstbachelor degree, a collaborative degree in music therapy, with the B.C.

Open University in 1990. A second music degree, in jazz studies, was offered in 1992, and a business administration degree was offered in 1993. Capilano has grown, expanded and become one of ourprovince’s largest post-secondary institutions. North Vancouveris proud of ouruniversity, and anyone from Cap U can be proudof theirtime there. My son and my daughter would also agree. One final point. In the wake of the world that is being rocked by the Me Too movement,itis especially important to pointthis out.Ithas always been apriority forme. I think that students should also have access to a safe education.

Thatis why, in cooperation with the leaderof the Green Party, we introduced the Sexual Violence and Misconduct 2682 British Columbia Debates Monday, February 19, 2018

Policy Act in 2016. The act requires publicpost-secondary institutions to have policiesthataddress sexualmisconduct and setoutprocedures on complaintreporting and institu- tional response. Thanks to our cooperative action, institu- tions now have alegalresponsibility to develop and maintain policiesthat would address sexual violence involving stu- dentsenrolled atuniversity, because nobody shouldbe afraid while they’re at school. R.

Kahlon: Again, I’ll start off by just reading out the motion. “Be itresolved thatthis House recognize the importance of affordablepost-secondary education thatensures success in a rapidly growing modern economy.” I think thatno one woulddisagree with that,in notion. I think whatwe disagree on is what’s happened and where things should be going. I was listening to the Leaderof the Official Opposition’s speech the otherday, his response to the throne speech. One of the things thatstuck out….I wentand found this quote.

He said: “We only need to think aboutthat20-year-oldstu- dent out there who’s wondering about their future. I have three of them livingin my house. They wonderwhere they’re going in life…. They have thatsense of opportunity. They’ll getthe skills and the training they need, work hard and be successful…in British Columbia.” Itjumped outatme. I started reflecting on thatand think- ing to myself: “Well, he’s the Leaderof the Official Oppos- ition. He’s privileged to be in this building. He lives in the wealthiest neighbourhood in this province.

His home is worth probably the mostfrom everyone in this House, so his kids feelthatthey’re going to getthatopportunity.” Ithelps when yourparentsare welloff and you’re going to getthose opportunities. [11:40 a.m.] My son, who is seven years old…. When he goes to uni- versity, he’llhave certain privileges. He’llhave some confid- encethathe’s gotthose supportsthathe needs to go to uni- versity. I’m hopeful, as are most peoplein this Legislature. I’m gladthey feelthatway, because his children and my chil- dren willhave some certain privileges. That’s notthe reality for so many people in this province.

Debts.Mostpeoplethatare coming outof university are notactually having those feelingsthatthingsare going to be great. I have so many friends and I coach so many young peoplewho don’t have that sense of hope. They’re coming out of university, and they’re seeing record levels of debt. They’re seeing ahousing crunch where they’re looking atthe housing marketand saying: “How willI everown a home? How will I evergeta job that pays me enough to not only have a family but also pay off my debts?” This is whatmostpeoplewho are coming outof the uni- versity system or the post-secondary education system are thinking.

So I reflecton the conversation here, and I think to myself:“Is thatwhatwe wantin oursociety — a society where peoplewho have privilege and who have money have access to post-secondary education and whose children can have those advances in life and those who don’t have that, those who don’t have parents and don’t have wealth, just don’t see hope in our society?” I don’tthink thatanyone in this chamberwantsthat.But this is what we have, so we need to start taking action to address that.B.C. students’ debtis one of the highestin the entire country.

Some mightdispute the BMO study thatwas done — the survey thatwas done across the country. Some mightsay: “Well, you know what?Itdidn’tcapture the data appropriately.” I know the opposition may have theirown data to throw out there, but the reality was that the B.C. stats that we’ve been using only capture the B.C. debt.Itdoesn’tcapture the 40 percent,the federaldebt.That’s justdebtthatpeopleare facing. We can say: “This is our problem, and that’s their problem.” But that’s not the reality for people. The tuition has doubled. Within the first four years of the B.C.

Liberals taking on the reins of this province, they doubled the tuition. After that, they said: “Oh, well, you know what?We’re going to puta 2 percentraise now. We’re only going to letit go up 2 percent, but colleges and uni- versities should increase fees.” It’s nice to have that 2 percent, to show that we’re not going to increase the rates and that we’re holding that line forpeople.

Butwhen you tellthem, “Go aheadand raise the rates,” whatdoesthatdo?We’ve gotschools thatare charging $800, $1,000, $1,200 in fees, essentially to coverup for the lack of funds thatuniversitiesdon’thave because the student rates are not going up. Anyways, I can go on for days aboutthe challenges. But where dowe go from here is, I guess, the question. I’m grate- fulthatthe Ministerof Advanced Education announced that we willbe dropping the interestrate to prime and eliminat- ing 2.5 percent.I heard the folks in the opposition say: “Oh, guess what.We were goingto dothat.” I heard the same thing aboutMSP.

We lowered itby 50 percentand said: “Oh, we’re going to do that, too.” Well, guess what. Interjections. R. Kahlon: No, no. I’llsay itto the memberopposite, who says: “Yeah, we were going to do all these things.” Deputy Speaker: Thank you, Member. R. Kahlon: Actions. Actions, not words. M. Stilwell: Thank you to the member opposite for his enlightening datathatobviously doesn’tcorrespond with the datathatI have in frontof me. So we can have alittlebitof a discussion there. I wouldlike to, of course, thank the memberfor Surrey- Guildford this morning for even bringing forward the motion.

Of the importance of post-secondary education in a modern economy, I think there’s no doubt, and I think everyone in this House agrees that, you know, there is Monday, February 19, 2018 British Columbia Debates 2683

importance there, and that young peoplewho are about to enterthatjob marketfor the firsttime recognize theirright to education and the importance of itand the major differ- ence that it will make in the rest of their lives. In fact, this morning, when I was driving my son to school, he was talking abouthis future. He’s in grade11, and he’s really excited to be planningforgrade12 and graduation and whatitlooks like forhim. We talked aboutgoing to VIU rightin ourown comm unity and being ableto go to school right in our home comm unity. I think one of the hallmarks of the previous B.C.

Liberal government was the expansion of post-secondary institu- tions beyond the south Island and the LowerMainland and making sure thatwe couldbestprepare peopleforthatmod- ern economy if the studentshave education opportunitiesin their own comm unities. [11:45 a.m.] Formany, thatmeans thatthey forgo the expense of relo- cating to a placefaraway from home and thatthey risk los- ing many of the supportsthatare necessary for them to be successful in that learning environment. That involved us creating 32,000 new studentseatsand seven new university campusessince2001.

Itinvolved the transformation of many comm unity colleges to degree-granting institutions. VancouverIsland University is one of those examples.It’s one of the bestexamples.Formerly known as MalaspinaCol- lege, it originally had campuses in Nanaimo, Duncan and PowellRiver. Now ithas a campus in Parksville-Qualicum, and in 2008, it changed to become Vancouver Island Uni- versity, offering unique, core programs for people right at home in our comm unity. The m otto of VIU is: “Enjoy the journey.

Love where you learn.” I think it’s rather appropriate because VIU offers academic program s that work in concert with our local economy. We actually just started…. They actually have a strong focus with First Nations as well, and I think it’s incredible whatthe president,Ralph Nilson, has done there to engage the Aboriginal comm unity. It includes a highly specialized program, such as the Aboriginal shellfish aquaculture pro- gram, designed to specifically meetthe needs of Aboriginal comm unities. One of the core values of VIU is to build those rela- tionships with VIU.

Through itscomm unity promotion for Aboriginalcomm unities, theirstudentslearn culturally rel- evantskills thatallow them to work with and supportspecif- ichealth care needs withintheirown Indigenous comm unit- ies. I can’tspeak enough abouthow much VIU has done to buildthe valuableexperienceforthe studentsinsideand out- side the classroom. I think I justwantto spend afew minutes to go oversome of the facts I didn’t agree with that the other member said.

According to the OECD, education is completely free in Germ any, but only 30 percent get degrees, versus in the U.S. where, arguably, costsare higherand m ore expensive for studentsto geta degree, where 45 percentof students between 25 and 34 actually gettheirpost-secondary edu- cation. If you look atplaceslike Sweden,where university is abso- lutely free — yup, totally free; I see you nodding yourhead overthere — studentsactually stillend up with a lotmore debtthan the average.

In fact,according to the mostrecent B.C. student outcome survey, less than one-third of gradu- ates in the publicpost-secondary sectormadeuse of govern- ment student loans. In fact,did you know that70 percentof studentsdo not actually go into debt? Hundreds of thousands of dollars in grants,bursaries and scholarships go unaccounted forevery year because peoplearen’t even applying for those oppor- tunities. There are lotsof opportunities in B.C. We promote post-secondary education. We know the value of it,and we will continue to grow it as best we can. R.

Leonard: I’d like to thank the member for Surrey- Guildford forbringing forward this resolution. It’s an oppor- tunity to speak aboutopening doors and new opportunities in British Columbia. [Mr. Speaker in the chair.] Like members previous, I’d also like to talk about where we’ve come from. I have personal experience, because my kids were in post-secondary between 2001 and 2013. My first-born’s tuition astoundingly doubled in the time thatshe attended herundergrad, and by the time she enrolled in her master’s program, grad tuition had risen by 184 percent.

The loss of any grants for low-income students has crippled so many brightcitizens’ futures. One of my daugh- ter’s friends, Amanda, didn’t make it to the finish line because of the stress of studiesand living underthe burden of climbing debt in an unaffordable city. My son and his friends entered university in 2008, as the recession hit.Summ erjobs were hard to come by. One of his friends setup a plan to graduate in ten years, taking only a few courses ata time so he wouldnotrack up a huge debt.

Italso meanthis earning capacity was depressed fortwiceas long as a full-time student. [11:50 a.m.] We do know that post-secondary students in British Columbia have the highest debt load in Canada. Members across may quote differentstatisticsand try to painta rosier picture, and we have to recognize thatstudentdebtis more than justprovincialdebt.It’s across the board, as was men- tioned by anothermember. What’s worse is thatwe have stu- dents, young adults like Amanda, who don’t have enough supports to stay in school.

Afterincrediblehikes in tuition, the previous government tried to make itlook like itcared by instituting a 2 percent cap, but this was quickly drowned out by the increases in ancillary fees. As Shakespeare has said, a rose by any other name smells as sweet. That was then, and this is now. In the 2017 budgetcon- 2684 British Columbia Debates Monday, February 19, 2018

sultations lastyearunderthe Liberalgovernment,there was a call for increased funding for science, technology, engin- eering and mathematics— STEM — to respond to the huge marketdemand. It was unheeded, as this past fall the Fin- anceand GovernmentServicescommi ttee onceagain heard the same call throughout B.C. The skills gap has been ignored for far too long, result- ing in lostopportunities in B.C. forcompanies and British Columbians alike.

The Conference Board of Canada states that our economy has missed out on $7.9 billion worth of activity, which would have also brought in $600 mil- lion in tax revenue annually. It’s estimated thatthe unfilled demand will result in a shortage of 30,000 skilled B.C. workers by 2021. The proof is in the pudding. The opportunities lan- guished under16 years of successive Liberalgovernments. In contrast,today’s governmenthas been quick to respond.

Already, 2,900 spaces have been funded in 13 colleges, institutes and universities throughout British Columbia, along with funding to provide access to high-speed Inter- net across B.C. This whole package will support and drive innovation and create opportunities unseen before. It not only helps the students with m ore affordableliving whilein school; it also paves the way for prosperity in comm unities throughout B.C. We’ve heard aboutPrinceGeorge, which now can provide a full engineering degree at UNBC. That’s 70 grads per year.

College of New Caledonia has 25 engineering technolo- giststhatwillbe graduating each year by 2022. The college recognized they needed to fill a talent gap for technologist jobs in the north, and now localemployers can benefitfrom homegrown talent. VancouverIsland’s numbers are increasing by 165 gradu- ates — as early as 2020, 40 of them readying forup to 10,700 tech-related jobs on the Island over the next ten years. The story continues in many othercomm unities thatwill see STEM grads in the fast-growing tech sector.

As ourPar- liamentary Secretary for Technology said, the tech industry willhire as many peopleas we can train. The more we invest in people, the more companies will invest in B.C. I’m proud to be partof this open-eyed governmentthatis focused on the people of British Columbia. R. Leonard moved adjournm

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20180219am-Hansard-n79
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20180219am Hansard n79
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	681cc11916fccea864dc7a7519c9f3c22bbce1ba

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