Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 46 (42nd Legislature, 5th Session)

42-5-46

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXVII No. 46 - 1:30 p.m., Monday, April 24, 2023 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon. Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon.

Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott, Hon. Assiniboia PC KHAN, Obby, Hon. Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLEIN, Kevin E., Hon. Kirkfield Park PC LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice, Hon.

Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg, Hon. Riding Mountain PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle, Hon. Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP REYES, Jon, Hon. Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew, Hon. Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James, Hon. Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon.

Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Morden-Winkler

1763 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, April 24, 2023 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperit y of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for t he welfare of all our people. Amen.

We acknowledge we are gathered on Treaty 1 territory and that Manitoba is located on the treaty territories and ancestral lands of the Anishinaabeg, Anishininewuk, Dakota Oyate, Denesuline and Nehethowuk nations. We acknowledge Manitoba is located on the Homeland of the Red River Métis. We acknowledge northern Manitoba includes lands that were and are the ancestral lands of the Inuit. We respect the spirit and intent of treaties and treaty making and remain committed to working in partner- ship with First Nations, Inuit and Métis people in the spirit of truth, reconciliation and collaboration.

Good afternoon, Jets fans. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 240–The Remembrance Day Amendment Act Mr. Len Isleifson (Brandon East): I move, seconded by the member from Portage la Prairie, that Bill 240, The Remembrance Day Amendment Act, now be read for a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Isleifson: Bill 240 will simply allow folks working in any busi ness in Manitoba the ability to show their respect by wearing a poppy during Remembrance Day week, unless, of course, it has something to do against health and safety regulations in their workplace.

Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Together with the Opposi tion House Leader, I am pleased to table the new Estimates order, which is permanent, or as permanent as anything is around here; permanent for today. MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister for Sport, Culture and Heritage, and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes' notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with rule 27(2).

Would the honour able minister please proceed with his statement. Winnipeg Jets in the NHL Playoffs Hon. Obby Khan (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): Madam Speaker, what an exciting time to be a Jets fan. Having clinched the playoffs, we finally able to come together as a community once more to celebrate the return of the great Winnipeg Whiteout street party.

The Manitoba government is proud to provide a grant of $75,000 'ter' –per round and to partner with Economic Developme nt Winnipeg and True North Sports & Entertainment, who have been planning the home-game Whiteout parties to celebrate together in a safe and fun environment. It has been an exciting first round, and we saw this excitement manifested in the crowds during the first Whiteout party this past weekend, at the first home game in the series. It was a tough loss in double overtime, but a valiant effort nonetheless to come back from being down 4-1.

Thousands of fans were in the streets, in attendance on Donald Street for the first public celebration of a Jets playoff game in four years. The party featured food trucks, snacks, giant screens, music and fun to watch the game and official Jets merchandise–and purchase official Jets merchandise. I was also given the immense honour to get up on stage and rally the crowd with a go-Jets-go chant. But these Whiteout street parties don't just pro - vide an excuse to celebrate and cheer on the Jets, Madam Speaker. Half of the proceeds from the ticket

1764 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2023 sales will be going to the United Way, which is a great way to give back to the community and support those who work in the city's most–with the most–city's most vulnerable people. The parties will also have a positive economic impact on local businesses, which can benefit from the influx of people to Downtown during the playoffs. We are so proud to support our Winnipeg Jets. We're proud to wear our Jets gear here in the Chamber. We are proud to celebrate together and to bring people back Downtown to our city.

Thanks to all the ha rd-working volunteers and staff who are making it all happen, and the best of luck to the Winnipeg Jets tonight. And we know they're going to win tonight and make the series 2-2. Go Jets, go. Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): Like the others say, go Jets, go. The Winnipeg Jets are in the NHL playoffs once again and are currently facing off against the Vegas Golden Knights. People are in the streets dressed from head to toe in Jets gear and white clothes to show their support and devotion for the Jets at the Whiteout parties.

Sports bring people of all stripes and backgrounds together, and inspires common celebration for our city and our team. It's in moments like these that we feel most proud to be Manitobans. In the midst of the daily strife that we all experience, focusing on the game that we all love and our home team provides us with a sense of pride and relief. In that, there is a positive reason to celebrate this city's accomplishments. The amazing feats of our sports team continue to spire–inspire other Manitobans.

Being in the pay–playoffs is worse–is worth cele- bration, and our province will be there to celebrate with you tonight in game 4, in the streets, at the Whiteout, at home and anywhere where the game can be watched across the province. We stand with you in celebration of your success, and I hope this gives you further motivation for more wins. We look forward to seeing a massive Jets win tonight. Go Jets, go. Ekosi. Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Madam Speaker, I ask for leave to respond to the minister's statement.

Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Ms. Lamoureux: I am so excited to rise this after - noon and talk about the Jets. First and foremost, a couple of fun facts. Did you know that our Jets read to students during I Love to Read Month? Hellebuyck even co -authored a couple of books this year about mental health and racism. And did you know that our Jets arrange hockey camps for youth all across our province? Madam Speaker, the Winnipeg Jets do so much for our community throughout the entire year, and now it's our time to do everything we can for them today.

So, I personally am not superstitious, but if you are, make sure you wear, eat and do everything you did last Tuesday when we crushed the Golden Knights from 5-1. If you're going to the Whiteout street party, you better not have a voice tomorrow; the Jets should hear you from inside of the rinks. And if you're watching the game from home, or maybe going out, here is an opportunity to support local and wear your Jets gear. * (13:40) Madam Speaker, our players are on fire. They're amazing and our goalie is unstoppable. Did you see that save at–on Thursday's game? The puck in glove there? Just wow.

And tonight, we're going to triumph. So, Madam Speaker, while we may be divided on many subjects here in the Legislature, I think–and goodness, I sure hope –that we are all on the same page. Here today, we want to see the Winnipeg Jets bring home the Stanley Cup. Thank you, Madam Speaker, and go Jets, go. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Tony Kusiak Mr. Shannon Martin (McPhillips): Madam Speaker, it is an honour and a pleasure to recognize Tony Kusiak for his strong vision and efforts in promoting and fundraising for the prosta te cancer research involved in Ride for Dad.

Established in 2000, the Ride for Dad fight against prostate cancer is committed to saving men's lives and improve the quality of life for men and their families living with this disease. Every year, thousands of participants, supporters and friends raise funds for ride -with-dad initiatives held in communities from coast to coast across Canada.

April 24, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1765 Proceeds are received by its charity, the Prostate Cancer Fight Foundation, to fund groundbreaking prostate cancer research and life- saving awareness campaigns to benefit the communities where the funds are raised. To date, Ride for Dad has raised over $39 million with all proceeds going to the Prostate Cancer Fight Foundation. Tony is part of the Ride for Dad campaign and has raised over $200,000 over the past 13 years.

Tony has been a member with the Knights of Columbus at Holy Ghost church council for a number of years, and for the last four years he became a grand knight and has raised over $25,000 at various fund- raising banquets. He has also volunteered hundreds of hours helping the Missionaries of Charity, Union Gospel Mission, Siloam Mission, Chez Nous, Main Street Project and as he is a Second Harvest food rescuer and has helped gather over 20,000 pounds of f ood to be distributed at locations to help anyone in need.

Please join me, colleagues, in thanking Tony Kusiak for his hard work and dedication in improving our community, our province and our country. Thank you, Tony. Evans Premachuk Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): Today, I would like to honour Evans Premachuk, a northern Manitoban whose philanthropic endeavours have con- tinually benefitted our community. Born and raised in The Pas, Evans and his wife, Mardene, began their philanthropy and dev elopment in the community after setting up a law practice in the community in 1963.

Evans' family remembers how he had such unique ways of engaging with northern communities. While Evans was still practising–was still a practising lawyer, and roads had been–had not been created between the many communities, Evans would fly his small plane into northern communities like Lynn Lake. He would take a folding bicycle out of the plane, and ride his bike to the local cafe where he would work as a town lawyer for a day. As–after Evans left his law practice, he dedicated his efforts to helping Mardene operate the Wescana Inn and further grow communities in the North.

The Premachuks recognized that northern com - munities have often struggled with funding, and felt that it could best contribute locally by fostering growth from within. Over the decades, the Premachuks have donated more than a countless amount to the com - munity through initiatives such as the Tri-Community Foundation, The Pas rotary and a large sum of $100,000 to the Oscar Lathlin Research Library renovation at the University College of the North. Evans also was instrumental in getting legal aid in northern Manitoba.

He would keep track of all his clients he helped who could not afford a lawyer a nd relentlessly pursue funding for people, just like he now relentlessly pursues a medical school for The Pas, similarly to the one in northern Ontario. Evans and his wife, Mardene, have offered sup- port to local initiatives and foundations for decades, which has made a lasting impact for the community. Without generous donations like those of Evans and Mardene, many of our com munities' beneficial pro - grams may have struggled to find funding.

The strength of community spirit and, as he has described it, the northern charm fostered by locals is showcased perfectly– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Some Honourable Members: Leave. Madam Speaker: There leave to allow her to complete her statement? [Agreed] Ms. Lathlin: He was a friend of my late father, Oscar, and now I'm honoured to call him my friend. I enjoy having our early morning breakfast meetings at the Wescana Inn listening to his hopes and vision for The Pas, our hometown.

On behalf of the community, I would ask my colleagues to join me in sincerely thanking the Premachuks for their commitment to seeing the North, The Pas, thrive. Ekosi. School Musicals Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): I'm thrilled to have this opportunity to acknowledge Windsor Park Collegiate and J.H. Bruns Collegiate for their spectacular spring musicals. Last week, I had the pleasure of attending opening night of the Windsor Park Collegiate Newsies production. Newsies is based on the true story of the 1899 New York City Newsboys Strike, when newsies went

1766 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2023 on strike for two weeks and the two papers' sales plummeted. This was my first time seeing this musical, and Director Kate Willoughby did not disappoint. The entire cast put their hearts into singing, acting and dancing and some of the cast members did cartwheels, backflips and tap danced on the stage. The next evening, I had the pleasure of attending J.H. Bruns's production of Matilda. Many of us know Matilda as a bright, talented girl misunderstood by her family and peers. Director Justine Phipps brought this story to life.

This musical was the first performance in their newly renovated theater and it was an enjoyable experience. Several cast members were performing in the musical for the first time, but that was not evident; their choreography was well rehearsed and so enjoyable to watch. Madam Speaker, school productions involve stu- dents, staff, parents and the entire community in a cele- bration of the arts. One of the most important themes in both musicals is that children can and do i ndeed have power and are a force to be reckoned with and respected.

Congratulations to both schools' production teams, pit band, cast and volunteers. Bravo. Addiction and Overdose Epidemic Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): People ex- periencing addictions, and their loved ones, deserve a government that takes real, meaningful action to support them. Unfortunately, this PC government has shown that they would rather play politics with people's lives than provide real support. This is unacceptable. This–there is an addictions and overdose epidemic in our province. People are dying, and we have no time to lose.

In March of this year, the PCs promised to fund 1,000 addiction treatment spaces for those experi - encing addictions. T his addiction–the announcement should have represented hope. However, this govern- ment was not clear with Manitobans on what the spaces are. What we do know is that they are likely not permanent beds but, rather, temporary spaces that could be used by multiple people in the same day and counted as multiple spaces. This is misleading.

Instead of providing genuine, meaningful support for people experiencing addictions, this announce - ment was the PCs' attempt to look like they are actually doing something whe n they are not. Manitobans know that the addictions crisis has gotten worse under this PC government. We are in addictions crisis here, Madam Speaker, but this government is still not honest with Manitobans, or wanting to help those struggling. They've consistently put up roadblocks for people struggling with addictions and refused to be trans - parent with the actual number of overdose deaths here in our province.

Because of the NDP, we were able to stop Bill 33, which had put roadblocks up for those that were actually helping save lives here in Manitoba. Their consistent blockage for safe consumption sites has led to more overdoses in our province, and this government continues to not put in the resources that those 80 organi zations asked this gov ernment– they all signed on to a letter saying to this Premier (Mrs. Stefanson), saying to this minister, we need to help save lives. These are Manitobans' lives, and they need to do the right thing.

Open a safe consump tion site; actually have 1,000 treatment beds– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. * (13:50) Youth Hockey Champions Hon. Obby Khan (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): Madam Speaker, today is hockey day in the Chamber. Today I am happy to stand and recog- nize five youth hockey teams in Winnipeg south that won city championships with the Fort Garry North Hockey Association. Congratulations to the U11 A3 Team Orange, U13 A1 Winnipeg Storm, U15 A2 Winnipeg Storm, U18 A1 Fort Garry Flyers, U18 A2 Fort Garry Flyers.

The U13 Wi nnipeg Storm had an especially ex- citing victory, defeating their season -long rivals, the Rockets. After losing to the Rockets for the third time in regular season, the team devoted much of the next month to playoff pre paration and strategy. Madam Speaker, practice pays off. As they rallied around each other, they played their best hockey of the season during the playoffs, and they were able to defeat the Rockets in game 4 of the five-game series.

Much like the U13 Storm, the U18 A2 Fort Garry Flyers were able to achieve victory by perseverance and the willingness to learn, grow and work as a team, finishing their season with an amazing 12 and 0 record.

April 24, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1767 It would not be possible for these teams to have so much such success without their coaches' and parents' dedi cation to countless hours of practice, tournaments, games and much more. I would like to take this time to recognize head coach Brendon Schewchuk and Scott Estabrook [phonetic], who are here with us today, along with all the other assistant coaches and team managers for their time and dedication to our kids.

I would also like to take a second and thank the greatest team manager of my son's Fort Garry Flyers U11 A2 team, Jeff Eastman, which did not win the cham pionship this season. To the te ams continuing on to provincial finals, good luck and have fun. I would like to ask now, Madam Speaker, that all members rise in the House so that we can recognize the players, the coaches and parents with us here today from the Fort Garry North Hockey Association. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: We have some guests in the gallery that I would like to introduce to you.

We have seated in the public gallery from Morning Glory School, 21 grade 11 students under the direction of Walter Pankraz, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Steinbach (Mr. Goertzen). On behalf of all members here, we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Health-Care System Consulting Firm Costs Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Madam Speaker, for years, the PCs have ignored the voices of front -line health -care workers.

They've refused to listen to the voices of nurses, of doctors, of paramedics and other allied health-care professionals. And now we learn that this gov ernment turns around and goes to higher –a high-priced consulting firm, Deloitte, for advice on how to fix the crisis on health care that the PCs themselves have made. Will the Premier tell the House how much she has paid to this consulting firm instead of investing in the front lines? Hon.

Heather Stefanson (Premier): Well, Madam Speaker, we will continue to make record investments in our health-care system in the province of Manitoba – almost $8 billion this year; a 9.2 per cent increase over last year. We'll continue to make those investments. I also want to take this op portunity to thank the Diagnostic and Surgical Recovery Task Force for the incredible work that they're doing.

Almost a 32 per cent reduction in the diagnostic backlog and surgical and–the diagnostics and surgical backlogs, Madam Speaker, en- compassing nearly 26,500 individuals who got the care that they needed when they needed it. We want to thank the diagnostic and surgical task force for everything that they do to help get health care to Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, the Premier excludes people waiting for hip and knee surgeries. We don't think that's right.

We stand up for everybody on this side of the House who need surgeries in Manitoba, not just the numbers that are convenient for this government. The question I ask goes to the heart of the problem that the PCs have created in our heal th-care system: too much em phasis on bureaucracy and consultants, not enough emphasis on the front lines. As staff are burnt out, nurses, doctors, allied health-care pro fessionals leave the profession, what do the PCs do? They spend more money on c on- sultants, more money on bureaucracy.

So, I'll ask the question again: Just how much money did the Premier spend on this Deloitte consulting report, money that could've gone to the front lines instead? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, I think that Manitobans need to know the facts. And the facts will never be delivered by the Leader of the Op position when it comes to some of the wonderful things that we are doing to ensure that Manitobans get the health care that they need, when they need it. And I really want to give special credit to the Diagnostic and Surgical Recovery Task Force for the in- credible work that they do. Dr.

Peter MacDonald, Dr. Ed Buchel; all of those individuals that we're taking advice from on that task force, Madam Speaker. As a result of that task force, we're getting 200 more hip and knee surgeries at the Grace Hospital, Madam Speaker. There's also going to be a new OR –new surgical operating room at Concordia Hospital, well– we'll see more than 1,000 more hip and knee surgeries done every year.

1768 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2023 That's moving forward in the right direction to ensure Manitobans get the care that they need, when they need it. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, I feel compelled to remind the House that all of last week, day after day, we heard about how doctors were quitting this gov ernment's task force because those physicians are being ignored, and their proposals to improve surgeries in our pro- vince are being rejected by this government.

Here's a fact check for the government: 7,000 allied health professionals are on the verge of a strike. Those are rural paramedics. Those are lab techs and X -ray techs who keep local hospitals open. They're on the verge of striking because of this government. And what does this Premier turn around and do? She hires another out -of-province high- price con - sultant to deliver another report. We already know what the report's going to say: the PCs have made a mess of health care.

So, will the Premier please tell the House how much of money that should've gone to the front lines did she instead spend on Deloitte consultants? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, what we do know is that there were almost 24,000 Manitobans who were able to get diagnostic and surgical procedures, because we wanted to ensure that we contracted out those services so that Manitobans could get them as quickly as possible. And each and every one of those individuals would've been denied access to the health care that they need, want and deserve, if the NDP was in power in our province.

We don't think that's right, Madam Speaker. We will stand up for Manitobans each and every day. Madam Speaker: The honour able Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Vital Statistics Office Staff Vacancy Rate Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): You know, Madam Speaker, Manitobans aren't just waiting for health care, they're also waiting to get their IDs. Thousands of Manitobans are waiting for birth certificates, for marriage certificates, for wedding certificates because of the cuts that the PCs have made to Vital Statistics. This is a basic function of gov ernment.

When a Manitoban is born, the government ought to be able to provide them with a birth certificate, and yet the PCs are failing even to do that, Madam Speaker. Now we know why: FIPPA documents that we've received show that there's a 40 per cent vacancy rate at Vital Statistics. Why did this Premier leave so m any jobs empty that should be provi ding these im portant services to Manitobans? Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): Well, Madam Speaker, first and foremost, we want to ensure that those Manitobans get those certificates as quickly as possible.

We do kn ow that there was a worldwide pandemic; maybe the Leader of the Op position and members opposite have forgotten about that. But, of course, Manitobans recall that well, Madam Speaker, and they know that there has been some challenges when it comes to these things as a result of the pandemic. We also know that there is a shortage of skilled workers across the country.

We're, of course, working towards that with the federal government, with others, through our provincial nominee program, and ensuring that we increase immigration to the province of Manitoba. * (14:00) So, we are taking action, Madam Speaker. I'll remind members opposite and all Manitobans that while we're taking action, the NDP is voting against those actions that we're taking every day which is going to provide solutions to the problems that we're talking about today. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Kinew: Madam Speaker, you ever notice how the PCs have trouble hiring people in areas where they cut jobs? First in health care, now in Vital Stats. The Vital Statistics is supposed to be providing important pieces of identification for Manitobans. We're talking about birth certificates so that children can access im portant services. We're talking about marriage certificates so newlyweds can get their new lives started in a good way together. This is a basic function of government. This is what you pay your tax dollars for, and yet the PCs are failing to deliver this service.

April 24, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1769 Now we know why: they've let 40 per cent of the jobs in this de partment sit empty. And here's the kicker: that 40 per cent of the jobs sitting empty, that happened after this gov ernment cut the total number of jobs in this area by 15 per cent. Why is the Premier failing to deliver this basic service that every Manitoban should expect? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, we take this issue very seriously.

And, of course, we recognize that there is a shortage of labour, not just in these areas, but in all areas; not just in Manitoba, but right across our country. So, we are taking actions. As I alluded to in the previous answer, Madam Speaker, we are taking actions to make sure that we address these issues. And, in fact, in the last month, we are making significant headway to ensure that we are hiring people into those posi - tions. We are making headway. We recognize, of course, that there's more work to do, and we'll continue to make sure that we move in the right direction.

Madam Spea ker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, the reason why there's a labour shortage in Vital Statistics is because this Premier cut the number of jobs by 15 per cent. After you cut jobs, yes, you are short the number of workers in that department after the fact. It's no wonder that the Premier is failing to deliver this basic service to the people of Manitoba. This is why you pay your taxes, and the PCs are failing you.

You should be able to expect that if you have a baby born to your family, that you will be able to get a birth certificate. You should be able to expect that when you get married, you will be able to get a marriage certificate. You could certainly expect that with a Manitoba NDP government, but you're just not getting that from the PCs. Why is the Premier failing this service for the people of Manitoba and how does she justify leaving 40 per cent of the positions at Vital Stats empty? By the way, I'll table the documents that prove the case. Mrs.

Stefanson: As I mentioned before, we recognize that there is a labour shortage not just here in Manitoba, but right across the country. But I know that we've been working diligently to ensure that we're filling those vacancies and I know in Vital Statistics alone, in the last few weeks, we've hired seven individuals to ensure that we help to get at those backlogs, Madam Speaker. I want to make sure that every Manitoban who needs a certificate gets their certificate, and we will take the action to make sure that that gets done.

Health-Care System Government Record MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Day after day, week after week, we continue to confirm that this Health Minister doesn't think that she's accountable for the current state of health care in Manitoba. The PCs are putting their ideology of cuts and privatization ahead of patient out comes. And we know they ignore pleas from the orthopedic surgeons at the Grace to increase procedures, and forced them to go public instead with their concerns.

Madam Speaker, my question is for the Health Minister, the so -called minister of the possible: Is it possible that her PC government's continued cuts and inaction over the past seven years is the reason that nobody in Manitoba has any trust in her? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): I want to thank all the physicians that have provided input to the Diag nostic and Surgical Recovery Task Force, including the physicians that work at the Grace Hospital.

That is what has helped the DSRTF to eliminate the backlog in cataracts, CT scans, ultrasound tests, cardiac catheterization lab tests, pacemaker sur- geries, pediatric neurodevelopment assessment, urology tests and more, Madam Speaker. I thank them for coming to the table of solutions. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a supplementary question. MLA Asagwara: This PC government is now shift - ing to the next phase of their plan, and this Conservative Premier's intent is on privatization and– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

MLA Asagwara: –contracting out the delivery of health-care services. They're sending patients out of province at a great expense, even though there's existing capacity right here in Manitoba that they refuse to invest in.

1770 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2023 Instead, this minister's task force actually directed the Grace Hospital to cut their surgeries by 20 per cent, Madam Speaker. Will this Health Minister tell Manitobans why she decided that it's not possible to direct -fund into the front lines of our public health-care system, and fund orthopedic surgeries right here at home? Ms.

Gordon: Madam Speaker, I am pleased that through the incred ible work of the Diagnos tic and Surgical Recovery Task Force, we are adding 200 more orthopedic surgeries at the Grace Hospital, and funding the building of a fifth operating room at the Concordia, which will bring us 1,000 more hip and knee surgeries. Our government is investing in the public health system, and I ask the member for Union Station to get on board with the art of the possible. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable member for Union Station, on a final supplementary. MLA Asagwara: Madam Speaker, it's–you know, it's sad.

I think it's really sad that this Health Minister still thinks that after seven years of cuts and chaos, that their decisions have been the right move. Manitobans are correct in their assessment that this PC government cannot be trusted when it comes to their health care, while she hides in her office with her so -called table of solutions, just sitting in her office hiding away from the media and Manitobans, while she ignores advice from medical experts and health professionals, Madam Speaker.

This minister needs to answer for Manitobans: When will she stop the talk and actually lead by example by investing in made -in-Manitoba solutions for health care? Ms. Gordon: Once again, the op position members continue to mislead Manitobans, but there are nurses at the Health Sciences Centre, the Grace Hospital and the St. Boniface Hospital that know I haven't been hiding at all, Madam Speaker.

I've been at the front lines meeting with them, hearing about their concerns, delivering on the health human resource action plan, which–and those meet - ings brought forward the ince ntives that are part of that plan, Madam Speaker. I know members opposite don't like when we go to the front lines and talk to front -line workers and hear of all their failures, Madam Speaker, but I'm going to continue and members on this side of the House are going to continue to listen to Manitobans, as well as front-line workers. Project Nova Implementation Costs Request to Call MPI to Standing Committee Mr.

Matt Wiebe (Concordia): We still have a lot of unanswered questions when it comes to the PC boon- doggle, also known as Project Nova. Costs continue to skyrocket, there's no trans par- ency in sight and ultimately, no account ability from this government. The latest records show that Project Nova is $200 million over budget, and counting. I'm tabling documents here, Madam Speaker, from an MPI board meeting–board of directors meeting. These minutes made–make it clear the minister's own board approved an untendered contract of $12 million to the private consulting firm, McKinsey.

With millions of dollars already wasted on Project Nova, how can the minister still have confi dence in his board? * (14:10) Madam Speaker: The honourable–[interjection] Order. Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister responsible for the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation): We know that under the NDP, they let the computer system at MPI deteriorate. They didn't fix it. They never repaired it. I don't know, maybe they had a plan that they were just going to privatize MPI anyway, so they didn't want to bother to actually upgrade the computer systems.

But for many, many years, it continued to– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: –get worse and worse and worse, and only when this gov ernment came into place did we decide that MPI is a Crown jewel. It a ctually should be protected. It should be enhanced. It should be bettered. So, we're improving the computer system that they never did when they were planning to sell MPI. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wiebe: Madam Speaker, well, we know that the minister talks to his board at MPI every couple of weeks.

So, that means that he would know that they approved this contract with McKinsey. It's clear he did

April 24, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1771 nothing to stop it. And that's more wasted money, that's more of taxpayers' money down the tubes. Manitobans deserved answers. Crown corporations like MPI belong to the people of Manitoba and the minister can't keep approving millions of dollars in overspending without being accountable and answer- ing to the public. We need to get to the bottom of this, Madam Speaker. So I ask: Will the minister call MPI to committee today so that it can be, and he can be, accountable to Manitobans? Mr.

Goertzen: Madam Speaker, when I discovered that under the former NDP government, there were dozens and dozens of untendered contracts at MPI valuing tens of millions of dollars, I sent a directive–that the NDP never did–that now prohibits untendered contracts from being issued by MPI over a certain value. We continue to find the mistakes that the NDP made and we continue to correct them, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Concordia, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Wiebe: While the minister continues to defend his board at MPI, the Consumers Asso ciation of Manitoba has made it clear that untendered contracts are, quote, bad practice. But that's exactly what this minister's board did: they're throwing more money–good money after bad– at a private consulting firm, while at the same time raising Autopac rates for all Manitobans. That's unacceptable. Manitobans shouldn't have to pay for this gov ernment's mismanagement. Families shouldn't have to foot the bill for another private con- tract with no oversight.

Will the minister call MPI to commi ttee, so that Manitobans can start getting answers about his boon- doggle at MPI? Mr. Goertzen: Madam Speaker, $4 billion of un- necessary spending at Manitoba Hydro is a result of that former gov ernment's work at Manitoba Hydro. That member said nothing during that time, and now Manitobans are paying more for their hydro rates as a result. The last time that that computer system was upgraded at MPI, Pokey Reddick was in net for the Winnipeg Jets. We had Morris Lukowich, who was on the right or the left wing. The Finnish Flash was doing his great work in Winnipeg.

That was the last time that this computer system was upgraded. We're going to upgrade it, just like we're going to ensure that the Winnipeg Jets get on to the next round by cheering them on tonight, Madam Speaker. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Allied Health Professionals Collective Bargaining Negotiations MLA Malaya Marcelino (Notre Dame): Madam Speaker, thousands of front -line health -care pro fes- sionals have voted in favour of a strike and continue to hold information pickets, protesting their lack of a contract from this PC government.

It's a clear sign that they've had enough disrespect from Brian Pallister and now the Stefanson gov ern- ment. They've had enough of a five-year wage freeze, and some allied health professionals working in com- munity have gone even longer without a contract. Why has the government forced allied health-care workers to vote in favour of a strike? Hon.

James Teitsma (Minister of Consumer Protection and Government Services): Let me begin by saying just how grateful I am and our caucus is for the in credible work that these health -care pro- fessionals do in our province, day after day, week after week, throughout the pandemic and continuing today. We greatly value what they do and we appreciate that. We have–Shared Health is the employer, as the member opposite would know. They're the one in negotiations with the union. We want both parties to come to an agreement, an d we're encouraging the bargaining to continue.

And that's where it should belong, not on the floor of this Legislature. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Notre Dame, on a supplementary question. MLA Marcelino: Madam Speaker, everyone in Manitoba knows that the PC gov ernment does not respect collective bargaining. Ultimately, this PC gov- ernment is the employer, and they set the mandate for Shared Health's negotiating team. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. MLA Marcelino: That's why 99 per cent of allied health professionals–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. MLA Marcelino: –feel disrespected by the Stefanson government and her PC MLAs.

A wage freeze for

1772 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2023 five years during a cost -of-living crisis: that's the policy of this PC government. Why has this PC government failed to give them a fair deal? Mr. Teitsma: Madam Speaker, it's disappointing that the member opposite would continue borrowing from the playbook of the Leader of the Op position and misleading Manitobans.

The simple fact of the matter is that one contract after the other within our health-care system has been concluded, and every single one of those contracts included compounding increases; every single one of those contracts included retroactive pay. For this member to suggest anything else is dis - ingenuous and does a disservice to those health -care workers and to all Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Notre Dame, on a final supplementary. MLA Marcelino: Madam Speaker, on this side of the House, we respect allied health-care professionals.

Everyone in Manitoba knows that the PCs have made a mess of our provincial health-care system. Lab and X -ray techs, pharmacist assistants and techs, radiation therapists at CancerCare and over 190 other allied health professionals have had their wages frozen for five and as long as six years and counting. That's during a cost-of-living crisis where inflation has risen by over 20 per cent. Will the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) give allied health-care workers a fair deal today? Mr.

Teitsma: Madam Speaker, the tactics of the mem- ber opposite and the tactics of the Leader of the Opposition are clear and the same: to promote a narra- tive of their own making in the hopes that Manitobans will believe them, at the same time knowing full well that they shouldn't. The trouble with their tactic is that they have no credibility. The Leader of the Opposition has no cred- ibility, and his caucus knows it. They heard it at the doors of Kirkfield Park; they heard it at the doors in Fort Whyte. I suspect they'll continue hearing about it in the fall.

I say to them that they're the ones–the NDP caucus is the ones in this Chamber who can do something about it, choose a better leader; that's what we did. Brokenhead Ojibway Nation Highway 59 Safety Improvements Mr. Ian Bushie (Keewatinook): On March 10th, I rose in question period to request that the minister address com munity safety concerns and listen to Brokenhead Ojibway Nation and decrease the speed limit of Highway 59, which runs right through the community. The community wanted a speed limit reduction to avoid the risk of pedestrian- vehicle accidents.

But last week, their worst fears came true when a community elder was struck and killed while trying to cross Highway 59 in her community. It's clear now that more than ever, the speed limit of Highway 59 in Brokenhead needs to be reduced. Will the minister commit to doing that today? Hon. Doyle Piwniuk (Minister of Transportation and Infrastructure): Our government reached out to the chief and the com munity after the incident occurred by offering our deepest con dolences to the family, friends and many of the people who are part of the tragic incident.

Every fatality on Manitoba roadways are trag ic and undergoing thorough review. At this time, the RCMP are currently investigating this incident, Madam Speaker. We will continue work with Brokenhead First Nation regarding this stretch of highway to look for a long-term solution. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Keewatinook, on a supplementary question. Mr. Bushie: Last Thursday night, a com munity elder was struck and killed while trying to cross Highway 59 in Brokenhead Ojibway Nation. Chief Bluesky is calling on the PCs to make safety im- provements to prevent future fatalities.

He wants to see the safety concerns addressed today. The community wants to see a reduction in the 80-kilometre speed limit, improved lighting and safe pedestrian crossings. * (14:20) Will the minister commit to implementing these requests today? Mr. Piwniuk: Madam Speaker, we recently installed temporary speed-reduction signs, and our government is actively looking at ad ditional options to enhance safety in the area.

April 24, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1773 Recent discussions with Chief Blue sky as the community was asked for this for decades to have the improvement of safety along this highway. I look forward to presenting the solutions to Chief Bluesky in the upcoming weeks, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honour able member for Keewatinook, on a final supplementary. Mr. Bushie: Madam Speaker, for the record, those are only speed notifications; those are not reductions that happened. We know the backlog for speed zone variance requests in Manitoba is much too high.

That means that commu nities like Brokenhead Ojibway Nation are having to wait far too long for action. It's clear the situation is urgent. Last week, an elder was killed when trying to cross Highway 59 in Brokenhead. Community members, including young children, have no choice but to cross that highway every day. It's time for the minister to act and reduce the speed limit of Highway 59 in Brokenhead. Thoughts and prayers from this gov ernment will not get results. The community is demanding that these safety concerns be addressed now. Will the minister commit to these safety concerns today? Mr.

Piwniuk: The member for Keewatinook, I said before in my last second question's answer, was that for 20 years they were looking for reduced–a reduction of speed limits in the–in that community and, Madam Speaker, in 1991 our PC gov ernment at that time reduced the limit to 80 kilometres. This time we are looking at reducing it again, and when we–they'll be talking to the chief and his council in the next couple of weeks and making sure that we look at safety oppor tunities and look at long- term solutions. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Piwniuk: We're investing billions of dollars in our infra structure, making sure a com munity like Brokenhead will be safe for people and the pedes - trians and for people on the highways, Madam Speaker. Well-Being of Health-Care Employees Manitoba Health Report Findings Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): We all know Manitoba's health-care system is in crisis, and we 've obtained a report from Manitoba Health dated from April 2022 explaining exactly why.

On page 5 it says, and I table: In Manitoba, quote, burnout is higher than in other areas in Canada, as is the proportion of employees seriously thinking about leaving their job. Over two thirds–68 per cent–report burnout, and nearly one third–29 per cent–say they've missed work due to burnout. Half of all employees say they've seriously thought about looking for a new job and, quote, many of these structural and systemic factors existed before the pan- demic. The situation is unlikely to improve without focused and targeted interventions.

Why was this report kept secret, and why has its many recommendations from health employees been ignored? Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): We ap- preciate, value and respect all the individuals who work in our health system. Whether they work in the Department of Health, whether they work in commu- nity health or in acute care, we value and ap preciate all their efforts. It's been a tough time, Madam Speaker, for every- one living in this province, coming through a very difficult pandemic.

We recognize that there are vacan- cies, that those vacancies need to be filled, and we are committed, as a gov ernment, to prov iding the resources that are needed. Madam Speaker: The honour able member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lamont: Madam Speaker, again, this is a quote from page 5, which targets the problem. Quote: There is no co- ordinated employ ee well -being strategy. Ongoing health systems changes have left employees and manage ment working in overdrive for the past two years. Many employees have faced wage freezes, despite higher workload, causing attrition and low morale.

Employee resilience and well -being in Manitoba is at a point where, without change where change is needed, the current state of employee resili- ence and well -being poses risk to employees, to patients and to the health system. These are detailed recommendations for monthly progress to–none of it has been done, and this is from April 2022, a full year ago. Why is this critical information about our health- care system been buried and its recommendations ig- nored when action is desperately needed?

1774 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2023 Ms. Gordon: Madam Speaker, health system leaders are committed to ensuring that employees are working in a sup portive and safe and healthy environment . They want to ensure that the whole of the individual is protected: mental, physical, spiritual. And I com- mend the work t hat they've done in the past and continue to do, to listen to the front -line workers and employees and their branches and divisions.

We know, Madam Speaker, more work needs to be done, and all the members on this side of the House, regardless of which department they oversee, is committed to getting the job done. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary. Health Coverage for Work Permit Holders Eligibility Requirements Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): It's be en brought to my attention that Manitoba Health is denying health coverage to some individuals here on work permits because of a technicality.

Under the current legis lation, a person must reside in Manitoba for 12 months straight in order to get health c overage. For the most part, this require - ment is met. However, some work permit holders are a few days shy. we're talking two to three days, and they are being disqualified for health coverage. Madam Speaker, work permit holders in Manitoba contribute to our economy. They pay taxes just like everyone else. Will the minister ensure those who are here on work permits are eligible for Manitoba Health coverage? Hon.

Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): Madam Speaker, I'm really pleased that the member has raised this here in the Chamber because this is one of the issues I was going to approach the members of the Liberal Party to discuss, because some of this issue – these issues stem from federal rules and guide lines around work permits and when they expire and when they need to be renewed.

And the Department of Health has been working very closely with individuals who've come forward with this concern, and I call on the members of the Liberal Party to call their federal counterparts and really begin to move this issue forward in terms of the work permits' expiry dates, Madam Speaker. Environment and Climate Incentives Government Announcement Mr. Shannon Martin (McPhillips): Madam Speaker, last week was Earth Week, and unsurprisingly we heard nothing from members opposite.

I don't know if it's because they have nothing to say or if they're embarrassed about the Auditor General's back-of-the- napkin comment when it came to the NDP's environ- mental record. However, on this side of the House, our minist er has been busy. Where the minister–or, the member for Fort Garry (Mr. Wasyliw) is too busy moonlighting in court, our Minister of Environment and Climate is enlightening Manitobans about the work we are doing on the environment. Can the minister shar e some of the accom plish- ments of our government? Thank you. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Hon. Kevin E.

Klein (Minister of Environment and Climate): Thank you to my colleague for that fantastic question. First of all, I'm–I was a little s hocked and some- what appalled that the self -acclaimed environ - mentalist in the NDP did not ask a single question on the environment last week. Not one, and it was Earth Week, which would explain why the Winnipeg Sun said the NDP's climate change plan was fraudulent from the very beginning, driven almost entirely by NDP spin and propaganda. In fact, the headline in the Winnipeg Sun was correct; the NDP's climate change plan was a disaster.

On this side of the House, we are getting the job done. Just last week, I announced expansion of the Manitoba watershed district's successful enhancement of the Lake Friendly emission– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Silica Sand Mine Extraction Project Water Supply Contamination Concerns Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): In Manitoba, the biggest barrier we faced tackling environmental issues is this PC government. Residents from the hamlet of Vivian in southeast Manitoba fear that the Sio Silica mine would permanent- ly damage–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order.

April 24, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1775 Mr. Wasyliw: –the freshwater aquifer they drink from every day. You don't get to be an Environment Minister if you can't stand up in this House and protect Manitoba water. So, will the Environment Minister stand up and finally, toda y, say to the people of southeastern Manitoba you will guarantee that they will have safe water to drink? Hon. Kevin E. Klein (Minister of Environment and Climate): I ap preciate the opportunity to tell all Manitobans exactly what we are doing, as this gov - ernment, to address safe water drinking.

It was this government that actually asked the Clean Environment Commission to hold hearings. * (14:30) It was the members opposite that ignored the Clean Environment Commission, ignored science and went ahead and just kicked the can down the road when it came to the North End treatment plant, which continued years and years under their leadership to pour phosphorus into Lake Winnipeg, affecting everybody's drinking water. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry, on a supplementary question. Mr. Wasyliw: You know, for all this minister's talk, concerned Manitobans get greenwashing.

The proposed Sio Silica project will drill thou - sands of wells across the region, and if the mine is approved, wells will extend deep past the limestone aquafer, where many residents draw their water, and into the sandstone below. Will the minister confirm today that the PC gov - ernment will announce a decision on the Sio Silica mine before the provincial election? MLA Klein: You know, it is–it's very disappointing and disrespectful to Manitoba taxpayers, who actually pay our salaries, to continue to be misled by these statements that are only pretending to be questions.

They don't have any basis to their questions whatsoever. Everybody knows the truth. The fact is that it's being reviewed by the Clean Environment Commission. And people remember that it was the NDP that committed to climate change and emission reductions to the act. In fact, they legally bound Manitoba to reduce emissions by 6 per cent below 1990 levels by 2012. And what happened? The NDP failed miserably. They didn't even come close. But what did they do? They raised the PST in taxes. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Fort Garry, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Wasyliw: This minister continues to hide behind the environmental commission. He will be the ulti - mate decider. He's going to decide whether or not the people of southeastern Manitoba are guaranteed– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Wasyliw: –clean drinking water or not. Now, the Manitoba Auditor General says that the PC government has failed to fully implement 90 per cent of recommendations from the past several years, in - cluding a full third of the recom mendations on the drinking water safety.

Why should Manitobans trust this PC Environment Minister to protect our water when all we get are task forces with no financial commit ments and delayed plans to implement water protections? MLA Klein: Please allow me to enlighten the mem- ber across the floor, who's been busy at court, about all the things that we have been doing. And, again, we've done the suc cessful enhance- ment of the lake friendly initiative, $10.5 million in GROW and conservative trust product.

We supported Take Pride Winnipeg! in their clean -up efforts; over 1 million kilograms of batteries diverted from land - fills; educational initiatives for industrial and students through Conservation and Climate; and the unpre- cedented announcement of collaboration between the City of Winnipeg and the gov ernment with a task force to address the North End pollution centre to ensure that things get done. Under this government, we don't raise the PST for no reason. We get things done. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. Petitions? An Honourable Member: Point of order.

Point of Order Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Union Station, on a point of order. MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): Madam Speaker, I rise on this point of order keeping in mind that you have made mention in this House very

1776 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2023 recently that the behaviour in this House needs to shift, and it needs to shift in a better direction. And, you know, a few weeks ago, in this House, members of the PC caucus started –and I'm actually slightly embarrassed to even have to say this –started growling, making growling noises in the direction of members on this side of the House. This has carried on now for some time.

However, it's gotten more specific, and it's been directed at particular women in our caucus. [interjection] And I raise this –Madam Speaker, I raise this because there were–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. MLA Asagwara: –a group of students in this Chamber– [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. MLA Asagwara: –who saw this happen today and I was hoping they would still be in the Chamber when I raised this point of order. Just because they are no longer here doesn't mean it still shouldn't be addressed.

And so our colleague, the MLA for Notre Dame, on her second question there were members opposite– the member for Kirkfield Park (MLA Klein); the member from McPhillips –who started calling her angry, and then proceeded to growl at her. And then, on her subsequent question, her final question, when I had hoped that, in fact, a number–all of them would stop that behaviour, it increased. And many members of that side of the House began growling at her during her final question.

Madam Speaker, I raise this in the hopes that we can all collectively agree that that kind of behaviour is not okay, and that when it is done in such a targeted and con- sistent manner, there is an undertone of sexism to it, whether members want to acknowledge that or not. And so I raise this point of order in the hopes that this behaviour will no longer continue moving for - ward and to make sure that, you know, our colleagues on this side of the House, and anywhere in this House, knows that we can stand up, call out that behaviour and it will change. Thank you. Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, at various times during this session, but in previous sessions, I think that you've rightly cautioned all members about demeanour and behaviour in the House. But you've cautioned all members. There is a reality in this Chamber that heckling happens. Sometimes it happens more than other times, sometimes it's because of the subject matter, sometimes it's because it gets closer to an election campaign, some- times it's because it's a Friday morning. There's a lot of different reasons why sometimes things change in this House.

And you rightly say that we all need to hold our- selves to a higher standard, and I think that that's true, and I think that that's true for all members. We all need to ensure t hat we are doing better when it comes to demeanour in the House. And I think steps have been taken in that regard and I know that you're taking further steps, Madam Speaker. However, what I observe in this House, and I've seen it for a variety of different members of different genders when they're asking questions that there are often heckling and other noises that are happening at them. It's not specific to one particular member.

It's not specific to one particular gender. It is something that all of us need to work on, regardless of who is asking the question or who is answering the question. And so the member, to raise the point about an issue of civility in the House is, I think, an issue that all of us can take to heart, but it's not because of one particular member. And that, I think, is something that the member should reflect upon, Madam Speaker. Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I rise to comment briefly on this matter. Clearly, as the member for Steinbach has said, that the heckling is a problem.

I think we all recognize that. I think there's a parti cular concern this time that one member, the MLA for Notre Dame, was targeted. I think that that's unfortunate and I think it's time that you, as Speaker, were a little more forceful in cutting back on the heckling that's happening at the moment, because there's still too much and, clearly, some members are being significantly affected by it. Thank you. Madam Speaker: I would like to just point out some- thing on this point of order and some of it relates to what the member from River Heights said.

A Speaker can only do so much in this House, as I have learned over the last number of years as Speaker. More responsibility belongs to all of you who are in this Chamber and the behaviours that you want to exhibit. A Speaker can only do so much, and I've certainly

April 24, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1777 learned that over many, many years as I've raised issues about heckling. Heckling is an issue and heckling is a challenge. And I don't know that we'll ever get rid of heckling but there comes a time when we have to be careful that it does not cross over lines. * (14:40) I'm going to point out some thing, too, here, that that growling started many, many decades ago under a previous gov ernment too. So that's not some thing new in this House. Do I like it? No, I don't, but I'm going to say that it was something that has occurred here before.

And I just want to say to everybody that, you know, when we're asking questions, answering questions, that we do need to be res pectful, and I'm not sure how many times I need to bring this up. But, you know, the issue of our behaviour here is sort of, you know, it is a point of order in some ways, but it's something that you are all responsible for too. I can only do so much. I can stand up here, and sometimes I have stood up and I have asked for respect for the Chair. The moment I've sat down, it starts right away. So that's your responsi bility. I did my job, but I can only do so much.

There is a bigger responsibility by members that are elected here by the people who are watching this and do get discouraged when they see demo cracy that is not functioning as well as it should. Democracy is fragile right now. It's very fragile, and it's fragile not here just in Manitoba, but in Canada and across the world. We do have to be more careful, and that responsibility falls on all of us here –me and you as well. And I'm going to indicate that there was no specific rule that I can actually rule on, other than to say that I do hope that heckling can decrease in this Chamber. It does need to.

We do need to show more respect for the people that are answering and asking questions. So I'm going to just put that on the record for now and I do leave it up to you to try to be better. PETITIONS Provincial Road 224 Ms. Amanda Lathlin (The Pas-Kameesak): I wish to present the following petition to the Legis lative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) Prov incial Road 224 serves Peguis First Nation, Fisher Rive r Cree Nation and surrounding communities. The road is in need of substan tial repairs.

(2) The road has been in poor condition for years and has numer ous potholes, uneven driving surfaces and extremely narrow shoulders.

(3) Due to recent popula tion growth in the area, there has been increased vehicle and pedestrian use of Provincial Road 224.

(4) Without repair, Prov incial Road 224 will continue to pose a hazard to the many Manitobans who use it on a regular basis.

(5) Concerned Manitobans are requesting that Provincial Road 224 be assessed and repaired urgently to improve safety for its users. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Minister of Infrastructure to complete an assessment of Provincial Road 224 and implement the appropriate repairs using public funds as quickly as possible. Madam Speaker, this petition has been signed by many, many fine Manitobans. Ekosi. Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Foot-Care Services Mrs.

Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The population of those aged 55-plus has grown to approximately 2,500 in the city of Thompson.

(2) A large percentage of people in the age group require necessary medical foot care and treatment.

(3) A large percentage of those who are elderly and/or diabetic are also living on low incomes.

(4) The northern regional health author ity pre - viously provided essential medical foot-care services to seniors and those living with diabetes until 2019, then subsequently cut the program after the last two nurses filling those positions retired.

(5) The number of seniors and those with diabetes has only continued to grow in Thompson and sur - rounding areas.

1778 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2023

(6) There is no adequate medical care available in the city and region,

whereas the city of Winnipeg has 14 medical foot-care centres.

(7) The implications of inadequate or lack of podiatric care can lead to amputations.

(8) The city of Thompson also serves as a regional care–health care–as a regional health-care service pro- vider, and the need for foot care extends bey ond just those served in the capital city of Winnipeg–or, capital city of the province. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to provide the services of two nurses to restore the essential medical foot-care treatment to the city of Thompson effective April 1st, 2022. And this has been signed by many, many Manitobans. Security System Incentive Program Mr.

Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background of this petition is as follows:

(1) Cities across Canada and the United States, including Chicago; Washington, DC; Salinas, California; and Orillia, Ontario, are offering home security rebate programs that enhance public safety and allow for more efficient use of their policing resources.

(2) Home security surveillance systems protect homes and busi nesses by potentially deterring burglaries.

(3) Whole neighbourhoods benefit when more homes and businesses have these security systems.

(4) A 2022 Angus Reid Institute poll found 70 per cent of Winnipeggers surveyed believed crime had increased over the last five years, the highest per cent found among cities in Canada.

(5) The same survey reported half of Winnipeggers polled do not feel safe walking alone at night, and almost 20 per cent of them said they were a victim of police-reported crime in the last two years.

(6) Although the public understands what the criminologists and com munity advocates point to as the main drivers of crime, namely the larger issues of lack of food, addictions and poverty, they support rebate programs like these as they help the most vul - nerable in our com munity by removing financial barriers for personal protection.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the prov incial government to work with municipalities to establish a province-wide tax rebate or other incentive program to encourage residents and businesses to purchase approved home and busi ness security protection systems. And this petition is signed by many, many Manitobans. Madam Speaker: Any further petitions? If not, grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): Madam Speaker, could you please resolve into Committee of Supply.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider Estimates this afternoon. The House will now resolve into Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE * (15:00) The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now consider the Estimates of the Department of Environment and Climate. Does the honour able minister have an opening statement? Hon. Kevin E. Klein (Minister of Environment and Climate): Yes, Mr. Chair. The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson): Okay, Minister of Environment and Climate. MLA Klein: Good afternoon to all my colleagues that join us here today. I want to take a moment at the start to recog nize and give appreciation to all the staff that work in the

April 24, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1779 Environment and Climate Department, of which there are many. Of course, we have our senior staff, but there's also many that work in the field, testing water, testing pollution out comes and many different re - quirements that happen throughout the province on a daily basis. And without them, of course, we would find ourselves in an awful lot of trouble. So I recog - nize their efforts and their work and I thank them for what they're doing.

I had the opportunity to meet a number of the staff in Brandon, which was just a wonderful ex perience for me to learn and listen directly to staff that are getting the job done on a daily basis. What I'd like to do is also talk about some of the things that this de partment has accom plished and some things that were just recently accom plished, as well as some other things that we have been working on and look ahead to.

Of course, last week, we announced the expan- sion of the Manitoba watershed districts–that was very successful announce ment for us –as well as the en - hancement of Lake Friendly Initiative, which is very important to Lake Winnipeg and our waterways. We also announced a $10.5 million in the GROW and Conservation Trust projects. We gave support to Take Pride Winnipeg! for cleanup efforts that they do, not only in Winnipeg, but they're starting to supply products for –in munici- palities and areas outside of the Perimeter.

We announced, in conjunction with our partners at two–Call2Recycle, over 1 million kilograms of bat- teries diverted from landfills, which was a significant achievement; educational initiatives for industry and students through the Conservation and Climate Fund. And, of course, we announced the unprecedented new collaborative task force with the City of Winnipeg and my former colleague and good friend, councillor Brian Mayes, where we will focus on the North End pollution control centre to ensure that the project gets done and that everyone remains on the same page, working towards the same goal.

We are very proud of this work and also some of the other work that has been done over the last several years in the Environment and Climate De partment, not to mention the water strategy. This is the first strategy that was released since November–or, since 2002, and we announced that strategy in November of '22, and we are looking forward to announcing the water management plan here in the next coming weeks. We, of course, continued our enhancement, as announced, with the watershed program.

We have successfully imple mented six of the 18 recom men- dations from the Office of the Auditor General report on Provincial Oversight of Drinking Water Safety. In the past year, we have rescinded 15 boil water advisories, and we're very proud of that. And they were, in fact–they were in effect for longer than one year, including 10 long-term boil water advisories that have been in effect for more than five years. We passed legis lation to give Manitobans the choice to be able to purchase and use cosmetic pesti - cides already registered with Health Canada, and they can put them on their lawns.

However, our department felt it was im portant to continue with the legis lation that protects children and pets by continuing to restrict pesticide use at schools, child -care centres and hospitals. And we added on new restrictions on municipal playgrounds, picnic area s, dog parks and provincial parks. We also completed the remediation projects through the orphaned and abandoned mine site rehabilitation program at two high- risk mines: the Ruttan Mine and the Sherridon mine.

Budget 2022 announced the addi tional inv est- ment of $50.7 million over the next five years to further expedite the remediation of these orphaned and abandoned mines. There's much more we will talk about, I'm sure, during the questioning with my colleagues, but I'll be happy to share with not o nly you, Mr. Chair, but others, as the proceedings progress. The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson): And we thank the minister for those comments. Does the critic from the official opposition have an opening statement? Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): We do not. The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson): Thank you.

Under Manitoba practice, debate on the minister's salary is the last item considered for a depart ment in Committee of Supply. Accordingly, we shall now defer consideration of line item 12.1(a), contained in resolution 12.1. At this time, we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table, and we ask that the minister please introduce the staff in attendance. An Honourable Member: It's my pleasure to do that–

1780 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2023 The Acting Chai rperson (Len Isleifson): The Minister of Environment and Climate. MLA Klein: Oh, sorry. My pleasure to introduce the staff, Mr. Chair.

We have Jan Forster, our deputy minister; Neil Cunningham, the assist ant deputy minister, Climate and Green Plan Im plementation Office; we have Elliott Brown, the assistant deputy minister, Water Stewardship division; Shannon Kohler, assistant deputy minister, Environmental Stewardship division; and Todd Callin, the executive financial officer and assist- ant deputy minister of the Finance and Shared Services Division. As well, we have Grant Jackson, special assistant, from my office joining us today.

The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson): Okay, thank you very much for the introductions, and welcome to the table. According to our rule 78(16), during the consid - eration of de partmental Estimates, questioning for each depart ment shall proceed in a global manner, with questions put separately on all resolu tions once the official opposition critic indicates that questioning has concluded. Therefore, the floor is now open for questions. Mr.

Wasyliw: I'm wondering if the minister can tell us if he believes that pollution should be free, or that a gov ernment should subsidize busi nesses and in - dividuals who pollute? * (15:10) MLA Klein: My thanks to my colleague for the question, although it is somewhat leading. First and foremost, I think it's im portant to once again state that our gov ernment is hard on polluters and we have been hard on polluters and we'll continue to be hard on polluters, and that we do not subsidize polluters.

And I think that it's im portant, also, to get on the record that our department and our government believes in a polluter-pay principle. However, that said, the government does need to be a partner to spur innovation in green solutions. It's an ever -changing market, and there's new concepts and opportunities that are coming forward on a regular basis that we have to make sure that we understand and that we work with others if it will help address polluters. In our department, licensing and permitting is the tool that we use to ensure pollution does not happen.

We put con ditions on all busi nesses to ensure pol - lution does not occur. And, if it does, w e hold them accountable. If we have to clean it up, we hold them financially accountable. Our government is taking steps, as evident with the mines, the orphaned and abandoned mines, that were left empty and dangerous to residents by the former NDP government, and we've invested money to address those and make the environment cleaner for all residents of Manitoba. Mr. Wasyliw: I want to thank the minister for the response.

I wonder if Manitobans should be con- cerned that it took him 10 minutes and a army of skilled professionals to come up with that. But I'm wondering if the minister can advise whether he has read his own gov ernment's Made-in- Manitoba Climate and Green Plan, 2017? * (15:20) MLA Klein: Just one comment off the top, about my colleague's personal shot. I don't think its necessary in these meetings that we try to attack each other personally. I think that we can be professional in this room, and I hope that we can be moving forwards. I, unlike a lot of people, take my time bef ore responding.

I do my due diligence because facts are important. I don't want to just throw out comments in hopes that they will stick, or that I'm saying something that might work good on a video. Absolutely I've read the Climate and Green Plan. I'm proud of the work that it–that has been done on the Climate and Green Plan. It is one of the reasons I join- ed this government, especially with my track record at city council, putting forward more motions to protect our environment than others in that four-year period. And I'm proud of the fact that we have a whole -of- government approach, and not just one de partment.

We're looking at it as we should. I've had meetings with our executive advisory council that is doing fantastic work, and I'm excite d about the new members of the Youth Advisory Council and look forward to the next genera tion helping us in planning sus tainable actions for our province. We must of course talk about the Expert Advisory Council, and the fact that they have presented the next Carbon Savings Account 2023-2027 goal of 5.6 mega- tonnes of cumulative reductions and is working hard on

April 24, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1781 delivering its mandate, including providing advice to the minister on the green economic recovery for the province. We must mention emission reductions and energy efficiency in the province are being supported with over 40 Efficiency Manitoba program incentives. Increased biofuel mandates for trans portation fuels, support for fuel efficiency in the heavy-duty trucking industry and yearly dec ommissioning of fossil -fuel generating stations by Manitoba Hydro.

The Conservation and Climate Fund has grown from an initial $600,000 fund in 2020 to $1.5 million in 2022, supporting initiatives across the province in sectors that address climate changes and promote sus- tainable outcomes. Important policies and programs are under dev - elopment to help Manitoba be competitive in the low economy–in the low -carbon economy, sorry –of the future, and resilient in the face of climate changing, focusing on clean energy and trans portation innova- tions, as well as adaptation work to support com mu- nities facing extreme weather challenges.

We are getting the work done, listening to the experts, working with the experts to ensure a pristine environment for Manitoba today and well into the future. Mr. Wasyliw: Well, I certainly share the minister's desire to have a respectful exchange this afternoon, but, you know, the minister sets the tone when he takes four minutes to answer a basic yes -or-no question. I don't think anybody would view that as respectful, so hopefully we can have a better exchange this afternoon. So, does the minister agree with the plan, and is this plan still the guiding policy for the Stefanson gov- ernment?

Again, something very easy and very quick to answer. [interjection] The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson): Order. Order. Order. MLA Klein: Again, to my colleague who continues to want to bring up the time that lapses in 'bequeen' questions, I believe ensuring that the answer I give the taxpayers is correct and factual is of the most importance. And heckling from NDP MLAs, trying to be bullied into answering quickly is just not necessary, and it's not going to change my approach to providing Manitobans with the facts.

I'll do my due diligence and make sure that the answers I'm provi ding the taxpayers who are paying for this session get the facts. I certainly wouldn't want what was said about the former NDP gov ernment in the Winnipeg Sun to happen to us, where the Winnipeg Sun said the former government's climate change plan was fraudulent from the very beginning, driven almost entirely by government spin and propaganda. It had no basis in science, contained no real planning and had no realistic mechanisms to reduce emissions.

That's from the Winnipeg Sun. * (15:30) Of course, we believe in climate and we believe that our document is a living docu ment, as it should be. As with all science and gov ernments, we need to be able to pivot as opportunities in science changes. We are getting the job done, and I am proud of the staff of Environ ment and Climate for the work that they're doing on a daily basis. Mr. Wasyliw: Okay, so, I want to just read a passage from the plan; it's page 8, if the minister wants to follow along. And it's about, you know, towards the end of the page, and it's talking about the climate pillars.

And it says, the climate pillar's mission is to reduce GHG emissions, 'invlest' in clean energy and ensure Manitoba adapts to climate change impact. It contains carbon pricing as a principal tool to help reduce emissions. So, the basis of the Manitoba green plan under your government is carbon pricing. And so I'm won - dering if the minister would agree with that statement and agree that that' s the central focus for climate change plan in Manitoba–is carbon pricing. MLA Klein: I want to thank my colleague for his question.

And we, as many people know, as the govern- ment of Manitoba, put forward a made -in-Manitoba plan. And it was the NDP -Liberal coalition at the federal level that denied our made -in-Manitoba plan, a plan that had evidence that showed it would lower overall cost to people, and it would reduce emissions in a greater capacity than that of the NDP -Liberal coalition in Ottawa. But, as I said earlier, the docu ment is living, and we had to pivot because of that decision. And we created not a brutal cost -of-living crisis that we're witnessing today, fuelled by that NDP-Liberal coalition inflation.

We didn't want that. The NDP -Liberal es- calating carbon tax has shown absolutely no evidence

1782 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2023 of reducing emissions, only reducing the amount of money Manitobans have at the end of the day. We continue to take actions. There are over–well, we've already started 115 gov ernment-wide initia - tives. We've blended fuel require ments and reduced 500,000 tonnes of emissions. The Efficient Trucking Program reduced 100,000 tonnes. Mr. Chair, 77 per cent of natural gas savings target reduced 50 tonnes over two years. I'm proud of the work that we're getting done and I'm proud of our approach. Mr.

Wasyliw: Page 13 of the report: a carbon levy is simpler and more effective for Manitoba. It can cover more emissions in our economy, leading to more reductions. Page 14 of the report: the Manitoba gov ernment has committed to intro ducing carbon pricing to help tackle climate change. So, the minister makes the incredible statement that carbon tax–there's no evidence it reduces emissions. Yet, his own report that he supports says that is the principal area for reductions. So, I'm wondering if he can clear up that confusion.

Does he believe a carbon tax–which he says is the method to be used in Manitoba–doesn't work? * (15:40) MLA Klein: Thank you to my colleague for the question. And for the recor d, I understand the wordplay game, but I didn't –did not say I believe a carbon tax works. In fact, what I was insinuating and saying is that good manage ment is a group of people and an organization that has the ability to pivot and make change when neces sary.

And that's what we need in government is good management, and good manage- ment that was able to pivot from our proposed offer to the NDP -Liberal coalition, which would've lowered the overall cost to the residents of Manitoba, the people who pay our salaries, and would've reduced emissions by a greater amount than the NDP-Liberals have put forward. Our plan, that is referenced there, was not accepted by the NDP-Liberals.

They simply wanted to tax the consumers more, which they have done, which the y continue to do, and that has created, as any financial analyst will tell you, that has created the affordability crisis that we have not only in Canada but in Manitoba. Mr. Wasyliw: So, the minister knows full well that he could bring forward a made-in-Manitoba carbon plan tomorrow and that would supersede the federal back- stop, and that this gov ernment has been in power for seven years and is in the driver's seat when it comes to what type of carbon tax we have in Manitoba.

But instead of putting in a made-of-Manitoba carbon tax, this government has deferred to the federal government. So, I think it's a little rich to call it a Liberal-NDP coalition. It sounds more like a Liberal -PC coalition and a Liberal-PC carbon tax because this minister has the power, has the author ity to make it his own and refuses to do so . And the only conclusion that Manitobans can take from this is that he's very happy with the federal Liberal carbon tax. So, I'm wondering if the minister could answer the question, because he's now said two things: Does he actually believe a 'cardon' tax works?

Because in a earlier response, he said it didn't. Does it work, does it not work and why haven't you brought in your own carbon tax? MLA Klein: In response to my colleague's question, I'm not sure, but I believe what my colleague is saying, that the NDP are going to raise the carbon tax immediately, and I guess the PST, because that's what I'm hearing. And no matter how you spin the wording, people do remember that the NDP comm itted to The Climate Change and Remissions Reduction Act to legally bind Manitoba to reduce emissions by 6 per cent below 1990 levels by 2012.

And the fact is that it's irrefutable that the NDP failed miserably and didn't come close to that. Members know the provincial plan–any provincial plan put for- ward to the federal government has to be greater than that of the federal tax. That's the plan of the NDP - Liberal coalition: make the taxes higher and we'll agree with it. This government is taking a balanced approach to reducing emissions while making sure that we support Manitobans through an unprecedented–unprecedented– cost-of-living crisis. What we're hearing is: Let's tax people and hope that brings down our admissions.

And that's some - thing this government will not support. Mr. Wasyliw: It's disappointing that the minister is using his time to sort of give us all a master class in gaslighting.

April 24, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1783 It's a very simple question, Minister. You have the power to bring in a carbon tax that you like, and you're refusing to do it. So, are Manitobans taking from that that you enjoy the PC-Liberal carbon tax and want to keep it in place? The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson): Just before I call on the minister on that one, just a reminder – [interjection] Order, order. Just a reminder for those asking and answering questions, please channel them through the Chair and not directly to each other, please.

And with that, we'll call on the Minister of Environment and Climate. MLA Klein: Thank you, Mr. Chair, very much for that. There's no question there; it's just a political state- ment that has absolutely no fact to it what soever, so I'm not going to entertain answering a statement. I'll answer questions about the budget. Mr. Wasyliw: So, what is this government's alterna- tive to the PC-Liberal carbon tax? * (15:50) MLA Klein: Mr. Chair, if we could get some clarity. I'm not aware of any PC-Liberal carbon tax, so if the member could explain what he's talking about, that would be helpful. Mr.

Wasyliw: Well, can the minister please outline what this gov ernment's alter native would be to the current carbon tax, given that their previous offering was rejected? And am I and the rest of this committee to believe that there actually isn't an alternative on the table and that this government is tired and out of ideas and they have nothing to offer Manitobans? MLA Klein: Thank you to my colleague for the question. I think being repetitive is necessary sometimes to ensure that we all un derstand that –the facts.

And again, as we've said on a number of occasions now, the fact is the NDP -Liberal coalition demands that a carbon tax be higher than theirs in order for a province to change it. So, they are demanding that it be higher. We do not believe in that. What I think I'm hear- ing is that the member opposite and the NDP are more than willing to increase carbon tax on Manitobans almost imme diately, along with that of the PST. However, this government is taking action and we're getting real results in carbon emission reductions. And I'll just give you a couple of examples.

The Efficient Trucking Program will save 25 million litres of fuel and reduce GHG emissions over the life cycle of the equip ment. Manitoba Hydro's last coal -fire generating unit was shut down and the natural gas units in Selkirk were phased out, all ahead of schedule, in 2021. These actions have reduced greenhouse gas emissions by over 56,000 tonnes. Maybe the member opposite could tell us today what the plan is for the NDP. How high are you going to increase the carbon tax if you're given the op por- tunity? Mr.

Wasyliw: I think the minister's made it perfectly clear that he supports the PC -Liberal carbon tax, and will not make changes in Manitoba. So, I will move on because life's too short. I want to ask the minister some questions about Sio Silica mine. As he's aware, that mine would remove sand over two large freshwater aquifers that supply drink - ing water to southeast Manitoba. The company is wanting to use a n experimental technique that has never been used before, and experts are concerned that there will be contamination between the two aquifers that'll pollute the drinking water for that region.

As the minister, you have the final say on the project, regardless of whatever recommendations the environment commission comes up with. I've certain- ly asked you numer ous times in the House, that the residents of southeast Manitoba are worried about their safe drinking water supply. And this government can make a commit ment to them that regardless of what the com mission reports or regardless of those recommendations, that this gov ernment will stand with southeastern Manitoba and guarantee safe drinking water supply.

And I'm wondering to the minis ter why he has refused, probably half a dozen times now, to answer that question, and why he won't commit to safe drinking water for southeast Manitoba? MLA Klein: Once again, Mr. Chair, maybe my colleague can be more clear, as opposed to trying to put false statements on the record about my inability or unwillingness to answer a question, which is not true. Could he be clear on what the question is, because I'm not sure he's asked a question yet? Mr. Wasyliw: I can talk slower for the minister.

1784 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2023 My question for the minister is: Will he, on the record today, guarantee to the residents of southeast Manitoba, that regardless of what the recom men- dations are from the environment commission, he will guarantee safe drinking water to those residents? MLA Klein: I notice my colleague's getting a little angry and, again, going off with some comments that aren't becoming of a professional –[interjection] And there's some heckling now.

I think it should be known that it was this govern- ment that called on t he Clean Environment Commission to take a deeper look into the proposed Sio Silica mines. Nobody has made any decision. In fact, our government is listening to the experts. And that's something that is unfamiliar to the members opposite, who ignored the Clean Environment Commission when they were told decades ago that the North End treatment plant had to be upgraded. They ignored it; they kicked it down the road. They also ignored scientists, and they ignored the facts, when they went ahead with the Keeyask project.

So I'm not going to sit here and get into a word - play game for the sake of somebody's video on social media. The facts are–and these are the facts, and they're irrefutable no matter what you hear –no licensing decision will be made until t he project is thoroughly reviewed, and the evidence can be fully considered by experts. Not pretend politicians who think they have all the answers. We will go to the experts and get the answers. And I can tell you that not only my track record as a city councillor –to get phosphorus out of going into Lake Winnipeg–but our Premier (Mrs.

Stefanson) and this gov ernment's promise is to keep our water supply clean and protect the environment . Those are our top priorities. Not spin, not personal political gain. We will do full due diligence, and that will occur during the licensing process. * (16:00) And again, to be clear, no licensing decision will be made based on politics; it will be based on science and the health of Manitobans. Mr.

Wasyliw: There are families now who have poured their life savings into properties in this com - munity and don't know whether the bottom is going to fall out on their property values because they fear that their safe drinking water will become unsafe. There are families w ho thought that they were going to spend a genera tion in that commu nity, who are selling and leaving for fear that their water will not be protected and it will not be safe. There is panic in the com munity because of this issue.

The gov ernment co uld responsibly ease that panic by making a very public, very verbal statement that they support the residents of southeast Manitoba and you will guarantee that they will have safe drinking water no matter what the decision ultimately is made. It should not be a difficult matter for any gov- ernment minister to make that commitment. And my question to this minister is: Why won't he make that commitment to southeast Manitoba? MLA Klein: I think it's very important, given the line of questioning, that we get something on the record.

A minister is not able to just sign away and make a decision on their own. There's nobody watching this, or that will read about this hearing, that wants a politician to make those kinds of decisions. That is why this g overnment sent it to the Clean Environment Commission, the very com mission that my colleagues in the NDP ignored on more than one occasion. They ignored the science. They ignored the experts. We are listening to people's concerns. We heard from hundreds and hundreds of people through the Clean Environment Commission, those that are opposed, those that are in favour.

We heard from stakeholders; we've heard from scientists, which is why we required more and more discussion on this parti cular matt er because we will make the right decision. And, again, it's not a minister's decision. In fact, we have non-partisan civil servants and a director that are experts in the field that take their job and the lives and safety of Manitobans seriously. They don't play politics by trying to scare people. They don't play politics by spinning the facts.

They are there to do their job, and their job is to review all the evidence, to review all the concerns of those for and those opposed to this project, and they will bring forward a decision, which at what –at that time can also be appealed. So, as opposed to getting into the politics of this because of a pending election, the facts speak for themselves. No licensing decision will be made until the project is thoroughly reviewed and evidence can fully be considered by experts. Mr. Wasyliw: Can the minister provide an update on the timeline for a decision on the Sio Silica mine

April 24, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1785 environmental licence, and will a decision be made before the election? Mr. Blaine P edersen, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair MLA Klein: I thank my colleague for the question–a very reasonable question, I might add. But unfor - tunately, I feel there's an undertone of politics being played to see if it can be twisted into a video, so let me put some facts on the record. This is certainly, like my answers that he was unhappy with, take time to research, to review, to have the experts look at.

But most importantly, now that the Clean Environment Commission has completed their stakeholder en gage- ment and that they are working on their report, we now have started

section 35, consultations, which the members opposite are well aware of. And I know that they respect that process; to hear from all of our Indigenous leaders and communities about the impact on the potential mine, if you will. We know that in the past, my colleagues of the NDP did not respect the Indigenous wishes when they went ahead with Keeyask. They did not do those con- sultations, but I assure residents in the are a and all across Manitoba that we will take the time to listen to our Indigenous communities and their leaders.

We will review in detail all of the information that comes forward from the Clean Environment Commission, and that this will not be a po litical-based decision, which is kind of where I think the question is leading, but that's my opinion. The reality is we have experts–non-partisan experts, scientists and those people will consider all of the information that comes forward. And, again, I want to go back to the most impor- tant part of this because Manitobans need to know the facts: no licensing decision will be made until the project is thoroughly reviewed and evidence can be fully considered.

The safety of Manitoba's water, every drop, is our main concern. Mr. Wasyliw: When I'm asking these questions to the minister, it's certainly on behalf of the residents of southeast Manitoba, who are worried about having to move their children because they could not have a safe source of drinking water. * (16:10) They certainly want a reso lution to this, and I think it would strain credulity to believe that the minister's department doesn't have timelines and that they don't know when this is going to wrap up. It's a simple yes or no answe r: Will we have a decision before the election? Yes or no? Mr.

Len Isleifson, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair MLA Klein: Again, we'll stay on this merry-go-round and continue to put the facts on the record, because we're leading into a more political line of statements than actual questions regarding the budget. This is about the budget and how much money of–taxpayer hard-earned money we're going to spend protecting the environment and the actions we're going to take. But it's clear that this would –is more of a campaign-style election forum, if you will. And we've heard clearly that our members on the opposite, the NDP, just want to increase the carbon tax.

And in this case, they're–you know, clearly have no regard for the residents of the area, because they're happy to instill fear. I respect the people that work for the climate and environment department. I know that they're non-partisan, I respect that they're non -partisan and I respect the process, which I would hope all elected officials do. We may not like the speed at which the process goes, but it's important to the residents that we follow this process. And it's equally im portant that we respect the Indigenous leaders and community members through the

section 35 consultation. We are not going to rush our Indigenous com munities. We are going to give them the same time and the respect that they deserve to provide comment, just like we did the Clean Environment Commission. I think the people in that area do trust the process. They don't trust the fact that when the –my–the members opposite, the NDP, was in power, Lake Winnipeg, Lake Manitoba and Lake Winnipegosis fisheries were declared the worst managed in the world by Seafood Watch.

They don't trust the fact that Lake Winnipe g was declared the most threatened freshwater lake in the world while the members opposite were in charge. We will take our time. We will review all of the evidence, we will review all of the science and we will not make a decision until such time as we a re confident in the decision that will be announced.

1786 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2023 Mr. Wasyliw: Wondering if the minister can explain why he is refusing to tell the residents of southeastern Manitoba whether they'll get a decision before the election. MLA Klein: Again, I want to–and I'll use this if they put out a video–get back on the record that this is about the budget, about how we spend your money. And, obviously, the members opposite do not care how your money is spent, and they have no interest in knowing how your money is spe nt.

They simply are looking for political fear mongering and for the ability to increase not only the carbon tax but the PST at the first opportunity. Mr. Wasyliw: Do you think that answer would satisfy the residents of southeastern Manitoba? The Acting Chairperson (Len Isleifson): Again, I'm going to just remind the member to put the questions through the Chair and not in third party, please. MLA Klein: Again, as we talked about at the start, it's very politically motivated, and our gov ernment has been very, very clear with residents and our track record speaks for itself.

The member's opposite's track record, the NDP, also speaks very loudly about their inability to care for the environment. They ignored the Clean Environment Commission, which is why we are facing billions of dollars in cost, and we continue to put phosphorus and other chemicals into Lake Winnipeg because members opposite, the NDP, ignored the science, ignored the Clean Environment Commission. They ignored the Indigenous com munities and science. They didn't even ask for approval with Keeyask, costing you millions upon millions of dollars.

The health and safety of all Manitobans is our priority, and that's why this government called on the Clean Environment Commission to listen to hundreds and hundreds of residents –real people, not made up people for a political question, real people that were able to put their thoughts, concerns on the record. They were heard, and all of those thoughts and concerns will be considered by the experts, as well as those of our Indigenous leaders and com munities through the

section 35 consultation. I think it's really unbecoming of an elected official to say, well, we're going to make a decision or not because we're the guys in power and we're going to do that; that's our ability. That's not what we're here for. We're here to make sure that the right decision is reached based on evidence and fact. Mr. Wasyliw: Has the minister spoken with those real people that are speaking out against the Sio Silica mine due to the potential risk of contaminating their water? * (16:20) MLA Klein: Once again, we are not talking about how we spend taxpayers' money.

It's obvious; it's evident that the members opposite, NDP, don't have any concern about how money is spent. They simply will raise the carbon tax that we've heard during these meetings. They're happy to raise the carbon tax immediately, and, of course, we know the PST would be raised shortly after they get the opportunity. The member opposite should know that an environmental review process has already been done with the public. Our de partment takes public input very seriously.

In fact, that was done prior to the Clean Environment Commission, because our experts, our civil servants, the people that are paid to work for taxpayers in Manitoba and to take their safety seriously, heard, during the environmental review process, that some were very concerned. That's why our gov ernment made the decision to engage the Clean Environment Commission. We wanted to give residents another opportunity to share their concerns and their fears. We're not fear mongering them like some others.

We're listening and giving more oppor tunity for people to speak, unlike the members opposite of the NDP, who ignored the Clean Environment Commission, who ignored Indigenous com munities, who ignored scientific facts when they went ahead with Keeyask, when they refused to replace the North End treatment plant, which has been polluting Lake Winnipeg f or decades because they ignored the science. Our civil servants, the dedicated individuals who are educated in this–they are the experts in this field– are listening to residents.

And now that we've done the review process where we listened to all the people and we took what they said and we've sent it to the Clean Environment Commission, now we're listening to the Indigenous communities through our

section 35 con- sultations, which is required and is necessary. And we will give them the time and re spect they deserve to provide their feelings towards this project.

April 24, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1787 And, again, I would ask my colleague not to fear monger here. We are taking the process of using experts and not playing politics with it. Mr. Wasyliw: I wonder if the minister can tell the committee what question he was answering. MLA Klein: I've been answering the same question he's asked about 15 times, trying to make a political statement. Mr. Wasyliw: I wonder if the minister can tell us what question he was answering. MLA Klein: This is like being in school again and taking legal 101. Asked and answered. Mr.

Wasyliw: I will ask the question again because the minister obviously–didn't register with him. Has he personally met with the residents that are speaking out against this Sio Silicol [phonetic] mine due to the potential risk of contaminating the drinking water? Yes or no? MLA Klein: Mr. Chair, again, for the residents that are in that area that are concerned about this process, I'm not going to play these games; I'm not going to politicize your health; I'm not going to politicize this decision. I'm going to ensure you, on behalf of our govern- ment and my colleagues, that we take this very seriously.

We will continue to take this seriously and not play political games with it. We will listen to the experts from the C-E–Clean Environment Commission; we will listen to our Indigenous com munities and leaders; and we will allow experts to do their due diligent before any decision is made. It is unnecessary and unbecoming to make this a political game. Mr. Wasyliw: The fact that the minister won't meet with these residents is political. Will the minister commit today and now to meet with the residents who are affected–directly affected– by this potential risk of co ntamination of drinking water?

MLA Klein: I ap preciate my colleague changed it from his false statement of saying that I refused. Again, I'll explain this to the residents there, because that's what's im portant to me. How my colleagues use videos is not im portant to me. What's important to me is the residents in that area that are concerned and those that are in support of this project. I want to make it very clear yet again. We have listened. We have listened through the environmental review process. We heard that there were concerns.

And our experts said, because there was concerns, they suggested we send it to the Clean Environment Commission, which we did. That's a fact. It's irrefutable. No matter what is said, that's a fact. We sent it to the Clean Environment Commission, where residents –hundreds of people –got the op por- tunity to once again share their concerns or support for the Sio Silica mines project. Now, as the Clean Environment Commission prepares their report and puts it together for review of the experts, we are now following

section 35 consultations, which will allow our community, Indigenous leaders and their commu- nities to also share their support or their fears with the project. We are doing what you want us to do as a govern- ment. We're managing the process properly. We're not playing politics. We will not make a decision until we have the evidence in front us and the experts have reviewed all infor mation from all of these various reviews and consultation processes. Mr.

Wasyliw: I think anyone watching this hearing, and hearing the evasive and non- responsive answers of the minister can only come to one conclusion: that he has not met with these individuals, nor will he commit to meet with these individuals. And if I'm wrong about that, please correct me on the record. Has the minister attended any Clean Environment Commission hearings himself? MLA Klein: Again, during this time that's been allotted through taxpayers' money, we are not talking about the budget; we're playing politics.

The member opposite should know, and probably is not aware, given the actions of his leader recently, that the Clean Environment Commission is a non- partisan process; that, in fact, gov ernment officials shoul d not be present, that we should allow the experts to listen to the residents, which we did. And we allowed them to speak freely, not be inhibited if they feel they are, or that it be seen that we're trying to interfere, as the members opposite and NDP have been noted to do in the past through media reports. We know that they don't respect the Clean Environment Commission. We have proof of that by

1788 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 24, 2023 them ignoring the Clean Environ ment Commission when it would've only have cost $300,000 to replace the North End treatment plant, that the Clean Environment Commission heard from residents, heard from experts must happen; it had to happen at that time, and they ignored the Clean Environment Commission. We will not do that. We will take these consulta- tions seriously. We will talk to the experts and we will make an intelligent decision based on the facts.

We will not ignore science, like our members opposite did when the NDP went ahead with Keeyask, costing millions and millions of dollars that you r grandkids and their grandkids will be paying for for years to come. We will listen to the experts. More importantly, we will ensure the safety for all Manitobans and their drinking water. To this gov- ernment, every drop counts, and you will be safe and the decision will be based on scientific fact and evidence. Mr.

Wasyliw: Will the minister commit today, on the record, to attending to Vivian, Manitoba, and to touring the affected land sites with the area residents to hear first-hand their concerns? * (16:30) MLA Klein: Once again, it's more evidence of trying to insert a politician into making a decision. And I respect Manitobans far too much to let a politician make a decision when it impacts the health and safety of drinking water. I would call on the experts and the scientific evidence to make any decision. The mere mention or thought of a politician making that decision–quite frankly, that's the biggest fear to me.

And I think that's what we're hearing from the member opposite, because the NDP has done that before: they've ignored science. They've ignored the experts. They've ignored residents. They've ignored our Indigenous communities when they had–went ahead with Keeyask. They didn't even ask. They just went ahead and did it. That is not something we will do. And I also want to add that I believe, Mr. Chair, the statement that affected land is somewhat argumen- tative. The member is indicating that, based on some scientific expertise that the member opposite might have, that they know it 's an–it's affected land.

It's a generalization statement, and we know that general - izations are not what residents want. They want facts. In fact, we know that this is an independent, non- 'protisan' process. And furthermore we know –we've seen the evidence–that the–my–the members opposite in the NDP have no respect for residents. In fact, we know that the Winnipeg Sun reported that the former government's climate -change plan was fraudulent from the very beginning. Very beginning, Mr. Chair. Driven almost entirely by gov ernment spin and propaganda, Mr. Chair; which, one would argue we're seeing today. It had no basis in science.

This is the NDP–the member opposite's–we're being told this by a Winnipeg Sun article: it contained no real planning and had no realistic mechanisms to reduce emissions. Our plan is to protect your safety and your drink- ing water, and we will follow this process. We will not rush it. I would be happy to tour the area with our staff, and, in fact, I will put that on my summe r to-do list because I want to make sure that people understand the truth. They understand the facts, Mr. Chair, and that is, we are listening to them and we are listening to experts. Mr.

Wasyliw: Well, it's–we've made some progress this afternoon, that th e minister's prepared to go out there and tour it with his staff. I'm wondering if he would add the actual residents who are concerned to his tour schedule. But I'll ask another question, the minister–has the minister or any of his staff –or ministry staff–met or had any discussions with repre sentatives of the Sio Silica mine directly?

MLA Klein: It is a necessity of all elected officials to meet with organi zations and residents to hear about proposed projects, for the Province to hear concerns and to ensure that everyone is aware of our policies and legislation as things move forward. This is a common courtesy, and it's a traditional business practice that we do listen and that we do meet, unlike our NDP friends–the members across the floor–who ignored everyone, including scientists and Indigenous communities when they went ahead with Keeyask. Our gov ernment does listen and we will listen. And, in fact, it's part of the process.

We have heard concerns from the members of public and stake - holders regarding the potential impact of the silica extraction process. We will not make a decision, and we will not make it political until all the facts and evidence are in. And this is something that I think is most impor- tant to all residents to know, that we're not going to make this political. We're not going to make a decision

April 24, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1789 without facts like the members opposite have proven time and time again–just ignore. That's why the former minister of Environment and Climate did request the Clean Environment Commission to conduct an inde pendent technical review and hold public hearings to fully understand the project and any potential–potential–environmental impacts so that they could be considered by the experts that serve on our civil servants–service. These are experts that take great pride in their drop–job. That are well educated and that care about your safety, not politics.

That's what we're hearing here today is politics. The Clean Environment Commission has com - pleted two independent technical reviews and has held the public hearings in February and March because our former minister of the Environ ment and Climate demanded that and requested that after our environ - mental review process where we'd be listening to you, to residents in Manitoba. This was the next step. This–we're not taking this lightly. Everything will be done in a proper process. We will talk to all parties, opposed and in support. We will listen to our Indigenous communities and our leaders.

No licensing decision–despite any of the spin that you might hear–no licensing decision will be made until the project is thoroughly vetted, reviewed, and that the evidence can be fully considered and confirmed. * (16:40) This decision will be based on what's best for Manitobans, not political parties. Mr. Wasyliw: I'm wondering if the minister can tell us how many meetings or discussions has he had with Sio Silica mine; him personally, any of his staff, the ministry staff. Give us a ballpark. Is it 20 occasions? Is it 100 oc- casions. Is it 150 occasions? MLA Klein: Mr.

Chair, there was about 50 questions in there. Can the member opposite be clear? If he wants to ask about each person in the staff separately, I'd be happy to answer those questions, but this was kind of a–again, one of those generalization statements that would be used for political pundits. So, maybe we could get some more specifics, and then I would be able to answer the question fully and properly. Mr. Wasyliw: Will do. So, how many oppor tunities has the minister actually met or spoken with Sio Silica mine? MLA Klein: Thank you for that –thank you, Mr.

Chair, and thank you for that –for rephrasing the question so I can answer it directly. None. I've never met with them. Mr. Wasyliw: How many opportunities has your staff either met or had 'converskations' or discussions with representatives of Sio Silica mine? MLA Klein: Mr. Chair, if I may, could the member opposite, again, be more clear? We have a number of staff in the Environment and Climate Department, and obviously he's on a fish- ing expedition. So, maybe we could get a more precise question that is important to the residents of Manitoba. Is this part of the process?

Is he asking if we've met outside the process? I have no –I mean, he's just making a generalized statement, and generalizations are not appropriate for this type of hearing. Mr. Wasyliw: Well, I'll begin with your political staff, those that are hired by the ministry's office, and then provincial government staff. I would like to know the numbers for each of those different units that work with you. MLA Klein: Thanks to my colleague for that question.

I can certainly speak to the political staff since I became Minister of Environment and Climate, and can confirm that none of our political staff have met with any of the people from Sio Silica. As for government staff, as the member knows – and that's why this is what they call a–we used to call it in the media, a fishing expedition, leading questions from politicians. It was quite fun watching from the stands–government staff meet with, as I said earlier, all organizations and speak to residents that have con- cerns. It's part of their job.

We certainly want to make sure that we're provi- ding clear i nformation on regula tions. We want to make sure that we're provi ding clear infor mation on not only the regulations, but also the Legislature. And often people will call us on a couple of occasions, and they'll tal

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-5-46
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 5th hansardpdf 46.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	68f440d762905d49b4c16ff8c62d574eade41c46

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