Manitoba Hansard — 24 March 2014 (Sitting 34, 40th Legislature, 3rd Session)

40-3-34

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session - Fortieth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Daryl Reid Speaker Vol. LXVI No. 34 - 1:30 p.m., Monday, March 24, 2014 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Fortieth Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLAN, Nancy St. Vital NDP ALLUM, James, Hon. Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP ASHTON, Steve, Hon. Thompson NDP BJORNSON, Peter, Hon. Gimli NDP BLADY, Sharon, Hon. Kirkfield Park NDP BRAUN, Erna, Hon. Rossmere NDP BRIESE, Stuart Agassiz PC CALDWELL, Drew Brandon East NDP CHIEF, Kevin, Hon. Point Douglas NDP CHOMIAK, Dave, Hon. Kildonan NDP CROTHERS, Deanne St.

James NDP CULLEN, Cliff Spruce Woods PC DEWAR, Gregory Selkirk NDP DRIEDGER, Myrna Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FRIESEN, Cameron Morden-Winkler PC GAUDREAU, Dave St. Norbert NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Liberal GOERTZEN, Kelvin Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Cliff Emerson PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC HOWARD, Jennifer, Hon. Fort Rouge NDP IRVIN-ROSS, Kerri, Hon. Fort Richmond NDP JHA, Bidhu Radisson NDP KOSTYSHYN, Ron, Hon. Swan River NDP LEMIEUX, Ron, Hon. Dawson Trail NDP MACKINTOSH, Gord, Hon. St. Johns NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor, Hon.

Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MELNICK, Christine Riel Ind. MITCHELSON, Bonnie River East PC NEVAKSHONOFF, Tom Interlake NDP OSWALD, Theresa, Hon. Seine River NDP PALLISTER, Brian Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PETTERSEN, Clarence Flin Flon NDP PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REID, Daryl, Hon. Transcona NDP ROBINSON, Eric, Hon. Kewatinook NDP RONDEAU, Jim Assiniboia NDP ROWAT, Leanne Riding Mountain PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron St. Paul PC SELBY, Erin, Hon. Southdale NDP SELINGER, Greg, Hon. St.

Boniface NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC STEFANSON, Heather Tuxedo PC STRUTHERS, Stan, Hon. Dauphin NDP SWAN, Andrew, Hon. Minto NDP WHITEHEAD, Frank The Pas NDP WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WIGHT, Melanie Burrows NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC

1295 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Monday, March 24, 2014 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Mr. Speaker: O Eternal and Almighty God, from Whom all power and wisdom come, we are assembled here before Thee to frame such laws as may tend to the welfare and prosperity of our province. Grant, O merciful God, we pray Thee, that we may desire only that which is in accordance with Thy will, that we may seek it with wisdom and know it with certainty and accomplish it perfectly for the glory and honour of Thy name and for the welfare of all our people. Amen. Good afternoon, everyone. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Mr.

Speaker: Introduction of bills? PETITIONS Mr. Speaker: Seeing no bills, we'll move on to petitions. Beausejour District Hospital– Weekend and Holiday Physician Availability Mr. Wayne Ewasko (Lac du Bonnet): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. And these are the reasons for this petition:

(1) The Beausejour District Hospital is a 30-bed, acute-care facility that serves the communities of Beausejour and Brokenhead.

(2) The hospital and the primary-care centre have had no doctor available on weekends and holidays for many months, jeopardizing the health and livelihoods of those in the northeast region of the Interlake-Eastern Regional Health Authority.

(3) During the 2011 election, the provincial government promised to provide every Manitoban with access to a family doctor by 2015.

(4) This promise is far from being realized, and Manitobans are witnessing many emergency rooms limiting services or closing temporarily, with the majority of these reductions taking place in rural Manitoba.

(5) According to the Health Council of Canada, only 25 per cent of doctors in Manitoba reported that their patients had access to care on evenings and weekends. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government and the Minister of Health to ensure that the Beausejour District Hospital and primary -care centre have a primary-care physician available on weekends and holidays to better provide area residents with this essential service. This petition is signed by J. Macauley, C. Macauley, E. Klyn Massey and many, many more fine Manitobans. Mr.

Speaker: In keeping with our rule 132(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to have been received by the House. Hydro Capital Development–NFAT Review Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): Mr. Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The reasons for this petition: Manitoba Hydro was mandated by the provincial government to commence a $21- billion capital development plan to service uncertain electricity export markets.

In the last five years, competition from alternative energy sources is decreasing the price and demand for Manitoba's hydroelectricity and causing the financial viability of this capital plan to be questioned. The $21- billion capital plan requires Manitoba Hydro to increase domestic electricity rates by up to 4 per cent annually for the next 20 years and possibly more if export opportunities fail to materialize.

We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge that the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro create a complete and transparent needs-for-and-alternatives-to review of Manitoba Hydro's total capital development plan to ensure the financial viability of Manitoba Hydro.

1296 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 24, 2014 And this petition is signed by A. Reimer, A. Wiens, D. James and many more fine Manitobans. Mr. Speaker: An y further petitions? S eeing none, we'll move on to committee reports. Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mo nsieur le Président, j'aimerais déposer– Translation Mr. Speaker, I would like to table– Mr. Speaker: Is this committee reports or tabling? Mr. Selinger: No. Mr. Speaker: No committee reports? TABLING OF REPORTS Mr. Speaker: We'll move on to tabling of reports Hon.

Greg Selinger (Premier): Mon sieur le Président, j 'aimerais déposer l e rapport sur les services en langue française 2012 et 2013. Translation Mr. Speaker, I woul d like to table the report on French language services, 2012 and 2013. Hon. Peter Bjornson (Minister of Housing and Community Development ): Good afternoon, Mr. Speaker. I'm pleased to table the Manitoba Housing and Community Development Supplementary Information for Legislative Review, 2014- 2015 Departmental Expenditure Estimates. Hon. Theresa Oswald (Minister of Jobs and the Economy): Mr.

Speaker, I'm very pleased to table the Supplementary Information for Legislative Review, 2014- 15 Departmental Exp enditure Estimates for the Department of Jobs and the Economy. Mr. Speaker: Any further tabling of reports? Seeing none, we'll move on to ministerial statements. No ministerial statements? Introduction of Guests Mr. Speaker: Prior to oral questions, I'd like to draw the attention of honourable members to the public gallery where we have with us today Devon and Jeremy Liscum, founders of the Mission to Mexico Literacy Project, who are guests of the honourable member for St. James (Ms. Crothers).

On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you here this afternoon. ORAL QUESTIONS Manitoba Hydro Bipole III Landowner Rights Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, we have a tired government, and one of its obvious qualities is its growing arrogance, Mr. Speaker. And this is a government, after all, that has forced Manitoba Hydro to put a bipole line 300 miles out of the way along the west side of the province when it results in a billion-plus of wasted spending.

It's also a government that has forced the Public Utilities Board to look at the largest capital proposal in the history of the province of Manitoba but put blindfolds on and not pay attention to the bipole line at all in its deliberations. It do esn't seem logical, Mr. Speaker, for a project of this magnitude. But its arrogance has never been more apparent than in its mistreatment of landowners along the proposed route. The NDP tells them to give up their fight and they'll take away their rights.

But we believe, on this side of the House, that this proposal is wrong, we believe the process is disrespectful to Manitobans, and we believe the government is wrong, as well, in advancing it over the will of the people of the province. Manitoba Hydro is not a toy for the government to play with. It does not belong to the NDP. Manitoba Hydro belongs to the people of Manitoba. Would the Premier at least acknowledge that the real owners of Manitoba Hydro include the landowners along the route of the pr oposed bipole line? Mr.

Speaker: I would like to remind our guests who are with us this afternoon in the gallery, while we appreciate your attendance here, and –you're asked not to participate in any way in the proceedings of this afternoon's House sitting, and that includes applause. * (13:40) Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Yes, Mr.

Speaker, the member will recall that in 1996 we almost lost 70 per cent of our transmission through the Interlake, and since that time, Manitoba Hydro has been moving forward t o build additional transmission capacity to ensure that the Manitoba economy and all Manitobans have reliable, safe, affordable hydro. It would only take one week to lose hydro, one week in

March 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1297 an economy of $62 billion, and we would lose over a billion dollars. Manitoba Hydro has advanced additional transmission capacity in order to keep the lights on in Manitoba, to keep the economy growing, Mr. Speaker. We support that objective. We think the Manitoba economy and Manitobans deserve reliable hydro every single day. Manitoba Hydro Taxes on Debt Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): At least put the lights on in his caucus room, Mr. Speaker. The reality is that the NDP chose the route out west, not Manitoba Hydro.

And Manitoba Hydro knew which route they wanted to take. The NDP knew which route would cost a billion dollars more and they disrespected the people along that route by pushing consultations, or so- called consultations, with farmers during harvest time, and that makes no sense. A nd they stopped the Public Utilities Board from even considering bipole route at all, and that's disrespectful to those NDP appointees who serve on the Public Utilities Board. But the greatest disrespect is to Manitoba ratepayers: a billion -plus–billions of dollars spent already on dams that aren't even approved yet.

That tells you how much respect this government has for the process: a billion-dollar waste. Now, the NDP tax Hydro on their debt, so the higher the debt is, it seems the government thinks the better it is for the NDP government. Is this why the government wants to bankrupt Manitoba Hydro and triple their debt? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the equity that Manitoba Hydro holds now is the highest it's ever been in its history; it's well over 2 and a half billion dollars.

The debt -to-equity ratio was 86 -14; they only had 14 per cent equity when the member was last in government; it is now 25 per cent. And the assets in Manitoba Hydro are the highest they've ever been in the history of the province. Manitoba Hydro has real customers that want to purchase that power. They have an economy in Manitoba that was $34 billion when he was in office; it's over $62 billion now. Every week that Manitoba Hydro is not operating will cost the economy over a billion dollars. Additional transmission means the lights kept – stay on for Manitoba businesses.

It means the lights stay on for Manitoba homeowners. It means the lights stay on for everybody in this province and our economy to keep growing. We believe good jobs need to be here in Manitoba. We believe Manitoba Hydro is an im - portant part of that story, and it's only the Leader of the Opposition that wants to stop it in its tracks, knowing full well that we will run out in 10 to 12 years and import gas from other provinces, which will send the jobs there instead– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable First Minister's time has expired. US Transmission Line Mr.

Pallister: Well, hydro experts don't agree with the Premier, but when did the Prem ier ever start listening to hydro experts? This plan to Americanize Manitoba Hydro extends now to a new line that the government wants to construct, not in Manitoba, not exclusively a Manitoba line–that's bad enough–a line in the United States, $400 million. Manitobans pay higher rates – double the rates over the next 20 years –the NDP makes over $9 billion in additional taxes from Manitoba Hydro ratepayers, all so we can subsidize lower rates to the United States.

Power aid: Manitobans do all the sweating, t he Americans get the juice. Now, let's ask the government this. If they would come clean today, we'd appreciate it. The compensation for Americans along this proposed line, how much higher is it than the compensation for landowners along the Manitoba route? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, the–even after we tabled him very solid evidence last week, the Leader of the Opposition continues to put misinformation on the record. I will table once again the rates for electricity in Minnesota and Wisconsin, which are double the rates in Manitoba.

When we sell our export –when Manitoba Hydro sells electricity into other markets, we get double the benefits, the profits, that are made off hydro being sold in Manitoba, Mr. Speaker. And when those profits come from export customers, they keep rates low in Manitoba.

1298 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 24, 2014 Now, with respect to individual landowners, Mr. Speaker, half the landowners have committed to signing easement agreements of those impacted by the transmission line. And there is additional support coming in te rms of structural impact compensation. Manitoba Hydro's very interested in meeting with individual landowners, looking at the particulars of their situation, making sure they're treated fairly. And we encourage them to do that.

We want them to be good corporate citizens and work with all Manitobans to ensure that we have reliable power at the lowest rates in North America and the lights will stay on 24 -7, not just when the Leader of the Opposition feels like doing it. He would leave it– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable First Minister's time has expired. PST Increase NDP Election Promise Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, prior to the last election, two – just two years ago, the NDP Cabinet, we have evidence now, was discussing the PST issue, discussing raising it.

Now, then they promised not to, during the election, and then right after the election they did. Now, would the Premier admit that when he was peacocking around the province making this promise, he and all his colleagues, that they would not raise the PST, they already knew they were lying? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the member continues to put misinformation on the record. The–when he was last in government, when the Conservatives were in government they put in place a tax commission, and that tax commission tabled a report in January of 2000 which I will now table today.

That report–the chairperson of that report was a former Finance minister under the Conservative government, a Mr. Clayton Manness, and in that report, recommendation 4 was a temporary increase in the provincial sales tax. That's what was recom - mended. That was as early as 2000. So it should be no surprise –and I have several other reports which I'm prepared to table here–should be no surprise that there was a discussion driven by external reports of whether the PST should be raised. It did not get raised at that time.

Those –the report commissioned by the PCs to raise the PST was rejected by this side of the House. It was only considered after the 2011 flood when 1 and a quarter billion was spent and another billion dollars was recommended just weeks before the budget. Mr. Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Tax Increases Election

(2015) Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Well, I know Clayton Manness. He's a man of great integrity. He's a personal fri end of mine. But that Premier is no Clayton Manness. That answer just came from the Premier in charge not of the NDP but of the spenDP. It's the spenDP after all. So we all know that when they were discussing at the Cabinet the PST, we most certainly k now they were not discussing lowering the PST. That leaves one option. They were discussing raising it just days before the election campaign.

And just days before the election campaign, coincidentally, they signed a 10- year, $159- million photo-op contract for an air ambulance service. And they were in such a big hurry to do that, they even refused to tender it and they ended up paying four or five times as much as neighbouring provinces because of the big hurry. But on the PST, they weren't in a hurry –well, until right after the election. That's when they raised it. Now, with that PST boost coming just after the election in which they promised not to raise it, is this what the NDP has in store for next election? Mr. Speaker: Order, please.

The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition's time has expired. Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the member wasn't here, so he probably missed it, but we did have the flood of the century in 2011, 1 and a quarter billion dollars. We had several pri or recommendations from groups such as the one commissioned by the members opposite to raise the PST. We also have the Building Canada Fund coming along where we can match federal dollars to build infrastructure in Manitoba.

The 1 -cent-on-the-dollar incr ease in the PST allows us to roll out a $5.5- billion infrastructure program, create 5,900 jobs, rebuild flood protection

March 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1299 for the people of the Assiniboine valley, Lake Manitoba, Brandon, Lake St. Martin, improve our roads into the United States so we can m ake sure that we're doing business with our major customer. Our infrastructure will be improved, more jobs for Manitobans, more flood protection. All of those things are the result of a decision made after the 2011 flood when a report came in saying, s pend another billion dollars to protect Manitobans, just like we did in the Red River Valley. Mr.

Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. CAEPLA Negotiations Government Intention Mr. Brian Pallister (Leader of the Official Opposition): Look out for the NDP to do it again if they get a chance. They don't believe that Manitobans are empowered to spend their own money. They think they can spend it better than Manitobans who worked for it can spend it. The Canadian Association of Energy and Pipeline Landowners Association wants to negotiate on behalf of its members, many of them here today.

They want to do it because they want to work together to protest the abusive treatment they've received by this gov ernment, abusive treatment of Manitoba farm families and Manitoba farmers because of the bipole route and the way in which it's been mishandled by this government. * (13:50) But the Province refuses to recognize them and refuses to come to the table. Yet this is a government that forces non- unionized construction companies to remit union dues, it's so union friendly. Now, there seems a contradiction here. How can you deny collective bargaining?

How can you deny the principle of collective bargaining to the people of Manitoba who want to exercise the principle of collective bargaining? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Mr. Speaker, the member missed the announcement last week where we saved $38 million on the floodway in Winnipeg, which came in on time and un der budget, and that money is being reinvested in Brandon, Souris, Melita, Waterhen, Duck Bay, West and East St. Paul, St. Clements. That means other Manitoba commun- ities will be protected from floods in the future.

We were pleased to make that announcem ent last week because of the successful completion of the floodway. We are pleased to work with landowners through Manitoba Hydro to make sure they get treated properly. The Minister of Hydro has already said he's willing to meet with representatives of the delegation right after question period today. We will look forward to ensuring that we have a clean, reliable supply of electricity to keep the Manitoba economy growing strong and ensuring Manitobans are at work, Mr. Speaker, able to take home a pay cheque for their families.

The member opposite wants to cancel economic growth in Manitoba, stick his head in the sand and go back to the '90s where– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The First Minister's time has expired. Manitoba Hydro Development Public/Government Relations Mr. Ralph Eichler (Lakeside): This NDP government is all about announcements, spending, saving face and in what they think will get them votes. Mr. Speaker, looking up in the gallery you will see a group of people that have been trying to get the ear of this government for a long time now. Mr.

Speaker, I ask the Minister of Hydro: Why is this government plowing ahead with hydro development when the PUB and other groups have not had a chance to air their concerns? Hon. Stan Struthers (M inister responsible for Manitoba Hydro): Well, Mr. Speaker, we know that we have a population that is growing. We know that we have an economy with more and more economic demands all the time. It's a growing economy. We know that we can–we know that doing nothing is not an option; we're going to run out of power within 10 years. So, Mr. Speaker, we can build dams.

We can build transmission lines so that we can export that power to our neighbours to the south and to the west of us. That's how we keep rates the lowest in the continent. Mr. Eichler: Mr. Speaker, the spenDP government has spent more than a billion dollars on Bipole III. This dictatorship government is putting every tax - payer at risk by spending willy -nilly with no

1300 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 24, 2014 negotiations with landowners, no approvals from the PUB. Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Hydro: What is this spenDP government thinking? The members on that side of the House are smarter than the experts and the rest of all of Manitobans. Talk about dictatorship. Mr. Struthers: What were we thinking, Mr. Speaker? We were thinking about keeping rates the lowest in the continent. What were we thinking? We were thinking about keeping Manitoba –Manitobans employed, providing jobs for Manitobans.

And we were thinking that every landowne r that's impacted by Bipole III needs to be treated fairly, and that's what we've asked Manitoba Hydro to do. Mr. Speaker, Manitoba Hydro has been negotiating easements with landowners along the Bipole III route. As a matter of fact, half of the landowners have committed to signing easements. These are –after all, these are 150 per cent of fair market value. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. The honourable member for Lakeside, with a final supplementary. Mr.

Eichle r: That's why the rates are going to double in the next 20 years under this government. They call that low hydro? I guess not. Mr. Speaker, we on this side of the House have from time to time asked this government to get it right with hydro development in this province. Even Hydro's own president, Scott Thomson, has public expressed concerns about the path this NDP government is forcing Hydro to take. This government is not listening to Manitobans. The group in the gallery are frustrated. Mr.

Speaker, I ask this minister once again: Will this government stop this runaway train, side with Manitoba taxpayers, listen to the experts and stop their political interference of Manitoba's hydro, the hydro that belongs to all Manitobans, not members opposite? Mr. Struthers: What I can guarantee the people in the public gallery is that we intend to keep Manitoba Hydro working for Manitobans, not to privatize it like members opposite would. Mr. Speaker, it's very clear that the preferred hydro development plan is preferred for a reason.

It's preferred for the reason that it keeps Manitoba hydro rates the lowest in the continent. It's preferred because it keeps Manitobans working rather than importing natural gas to keep Albertans working. And we know–we know–that we have a growing economy. We know that we want to keep that economy growing. We know we have the lowest rates on the continent. The way to keep that– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. Manitoba Hydro Bipole III Landowner Committee Concerns Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): Mr.

Speaker, this NDP government continues to ignore landowner property rights regarding Bipole III. The NDP -controlled Manitoba Hydro has been ordered by this government to not negotiate with the Manitoba bipole landowners committee regarding Manitoba Hydro's flawed compensation package. Will this minister commit to have Manitoba Hydro sit down and negotiate with the committee on behalf of their members? Hon. Stan Struthers (Minister responsible f or Manitoba Hydro): Well, Mr. Speaker, this comes from a group of people who voted against equalizing hydro rates for rural Manitobans.

That cost Manitoba–it was our government that saved rural Manitobans $22 million when that side of the House went AWOL on that particular issue. And, you know, Hydro works with every landowner who's impacted by this decision, by this Bipole III; they work with the landowner. They're working to have easements signed off. Fifty per cent of the landowners have committed to s igning off on these easements. They're looking at rates at 150 per cent of fair market value. Look, I've lived almost all my life in rural Manitoba. I know that every farm site is not a cookie cutter of the next.

Every farm site is different, Mr. Speaker, and every– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. Mr. Pedersen: Mr. Speaker, on March 14th of this year, Mr. Brad Ireland from Manitoba Hydro sent the MBLC a letter stating Manitoba Hydro is not interested in any adjustments or any changes to their compensation program.

March 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1301 Is this the NDP's new version of collective bargaining? Why is this government so afraid to sit down with MBLC and address landowner concerns regarding Bipole III? Mr. Struthers: Well, Mr. Speaker, the member knows that not every farm site is the same; every farm site is different. There's differences in size; there's differences in the number of poles, the number of towers on each farm site. I do not want people to think that every farm is a cookie cutt er of the next one. Manitoba Hydro understands that.

They have been sitting with individual farmers over and over and over again to sign off on these easements. And we want this to be fair for farmers, so that means we're not going to accept one -size-fits-all kind of an approach that members opposite are coming forward with. Mr. Speaker, as a matter of fact, Manitoba Hydro has said very clearly that they will reimburse legal costs to a landowner that wants to look elsewhere for some advice. We want Mani toba Hydro to– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. The honourable member for Midland, with a final supplementary. Mr.

Pedersen: Mr. Speaker, in the same letter dated March 14th of this year, Mr. Ireland has stated the government's position as non- negotiable. The NDP has decided the terms being offered by Manitoba Hydro for landowners in the path of Bipole III as final. An Honourable Member: Table it. Mr. Pedersen: Well, I could table it, but the minister has a copy of the letter. Will the minister now clarify: If this letter really is a take -it-or-leave final offer, why is this government so afraid to sit down with the MBLC and address landowners' concerns regarding Bipole III? * (14:00) Mr. Struthers: Well, Mr.

Speaker, as the Premier (Mr. Selinger) has indicated –[interjection] Well, as the Premier has already indicated, I am willing to sit and meet right after question period today with representatives of the people who have come to the Legislature. We've said that very clearly, and we have said very clearly that Manitoba Hydro will be meeting with landowners on an individual basis to talk about the easements that are coming forward and to talk about ways that this can be done fairly for the Manitoba farmer. Those things are being put in place. I get back to, Mr.

Speaker, aski ng members opposite why it is that they opposed equalizing rural rates that save Manitoba farmers $22 million. Where were you? STARS Helicopter Service Contract Tendering Process Mrs. Myrna Driedger (Charleswood): Mr. Speaker, this NDP government was slam med by the Auditor General for not tendering the helicopter EMS service. She said that the NDP was not in compliance with provincial tendering processes, policies or legislation. So I'd like to ask the Minister of Health to tell Manitobans why she feels it was okay to break every single principle related to tendering. Hon.

Erin Selby (Minister of Health): Mr. Speaker, our focus is always on providing the best patient care. We know that Manitoba families depend on us for that. In some circumstances, when it is in the best public interest and when there is only one qualified proponent, a government may enter a contract without a tender. We think, in the case of a life-saving service, it was the right call. We saw the good work that STARS did in its flights in 2009 and 2011, and we wanted to maintain this life-saving service. We knew it would take 18 to 24 months to bring in a new service.

We did not want to discontinue this important service, and in the time between our announcement and signing the contract, STARS transported over a hundred patients. That's a hundred families that were helped by this life-saving service. Mrs. Driedger: Mr. Speaker, this Auditor General said that there was absolutely no excuse for not tendering the contract. According to this Auditor General, the NDP broke the principles of openness, fairness, transparency, ethics, integrity and fostering respect - ful relationships. Yet this Minister of Health doesn't think that her government did anything wrong.

1302 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 24, 2014 So I'd like to ask thi s Minister of Health to explain to Manitobans why she and her government ignored these very, very critical principles. Ms. Selby : Mr. Speaker, patient safety, delivering the best health -care system we can is always at the front of every decision we make. Manitoba families depend on this –families in Manitoba want to know that when a land ambulance, when a jet just can't get there, sometimes the only thing that can get to somebody in an emergency situation is a helicopter.

It's why we are working with our clinical oversight committee to get full service back in Manitoba as well. But, Mr. Speaker, I do want to ask the member opposite, when they had their campaign literature last time in 2011, what exactly they meant by their commitment here that they will follow through–a McFadyen government will follow through on the commitment to make a helicopter ambulance a more permanent component of Manitoba's emergency medical service. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. Mrs. Drie dger: Mr.

Speaker, we would have shopped a lot smarter than what this government just did. We've always said we support helicopter EMS service. We would have just done it a little bit better than they did. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. I'm having difficulty hearing the question being posed or trying to be posed by the honourable member for Charleswood. I'm asking honourable members, please keep the level down so that our guests can also hear the questions and the answers here this afternoon. The honourable member for Charleswood, I regret to interrupt you. Mrs. Driedger: Mr.

Speaker, the last principle the NDP broke, as pointed out by the auditor, was that of achieving value for money. Instead, the NDP had no problem spending up to 600 per cent more than any other province for the same service. So I'd like to ask this Minister of Health to explain why this government so arrogantly ignored this principle of achieving value for money. Ms. Selby : Since 2011, STARS has flown over 670 missions. It has transported 440 patients, including a family this past weekend. I consider that value for money. Provincial Correctional Facilities Staff Safety Concerns Mr.

Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr. Speaker, the women and the men who are working in our provincial corrections system do great work, and they do so under difficult working–often stressful and dangerous working conditions. And those working conditions are made worse by an NDP government and a Minister of Justice who refuses to make the kinds of decisions that need to be made, who refuses to have long- term capital planning and puts them at risk because of overcrowding within our jail systems. Why has this Minister of Justice failed the good men and women who are working in our provinci al correctional system? Hon.

Andrew Swan (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): It's not every day that the member for Steinbach and I agree on things, but I do agree with him that the men and women who work in our correctional centres do a tremendous job. And that's why, Mr. Speaker, each and every year, we've invested to make sure that we have the right staffing in our correctional centres, additional staffing which, of course, the member for Steinbach and every member of the PC caucus has voted against every single year since 1999. We've actually invested, Mr. Speaker, since 1999, in 1,038 more jail beds in the province of Manitoba.

We've, of course, completed major expansions at the Milner Ridge Correctional Centre. We've expanded the Headingley Correctional Centre, including adding the Winding River therapeutic unit, which is working very well at dealing with offenders who have addictions issues so when they're released from prison they are better off in the community, less likely to reoffend– Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. Mr. Goertzen: Mr. Speaker, the more that the Attorney General says that they are doing, the worse the results are.

The Auditor General showed in her report that serious-incident sec urity events in our provincial correctional system went from 1,700 in 2009 to 2,500 in 2012. That's a 43 per cent increase. That's at the time that the Attorney General said he was doing such good work, and I'll remind him these are serious security incide nces in the provincial jail system.

March 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1303 That's put the women and the men who are working in those systems, in the jails and the correctional centres, that puts them at risk. Why has his lack of action put those good men and women, doing good work every day f or community safety, why has he put them at risk because he's not doing his job? Mr. Swan : Our relationship with the women and men who work in correctional services has been one that's been built on respect and trust and making sure that we have those facilities properly staffed, which we've done year after year after year. And, certainly, Mr.

Speaker, we've added to the capacity of those facilities. We've moved within existing facilities to add capacity. I was very pleased we were able to open the Women's Correctional Centre which replaces the Portage Correctional Centre, which was long, long beyond its useful life. I'm also very pleased that we are now moving ahead to build a new correctional centre in Dauphin to replace the existing Dauphin Correct ional Centre, as called for by the adult capacity review.

That 180-bed facility will allow for better outcomes, more ability to provide supports to those individuals, greater ability for our correctional officials to work with those individuals to get better results in our community. Mr. Goertzen: And we will agree it's about results, but the results are getting worse, Mr. Speaker. The Attorney General ignores the fact that, in the auditor's report, we went from 1,700 serious incidences on security in ou r correctional system in 2009 to 2,500 in 2012. Things are getting worse.

They're not getting better, and that puts the good women and men working in those facilities, it puts them at risk. I want to ask the Attorney General: How many, in those serious critical incidences, how many people were injured who are working in our system, and how many had to go on stress leave as a result of his inaction and his inability to get good results? Mr. Swan: Well, Mr.

Speaker, we can certainly talk about results as crime continues to decline in the province of Manitoba, as violent crime continues to decline in the province of Manitoba, but what we are doing is making smart investments to make sure that those individuals that pose the greatest risk to public safety are behind bars. That's why we've invested in the Warrant Enforcement Unit, which is a dedicated team of Winnipeg Police Service officers and RCMP officers, to make sure they're dealing with those individuals who pose the greatest threat.

We've got the GRASP program where probation services works with the Winnipeg Police Service to make sure those individuals who pose the greatest threat are taken back to jail if they do not follow their obligations. We know that it is a difficult population that's being managed. We're very proud of the work our correctional officers do, and we are setting those officers up for success. And I would point out to the member opposite the number– * (14:10) Mr. Speaker: O rder, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. Manitoba Hydro Biosecurity Ethics Policies Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Mr.

Speaker, we approach a new crop season with family farms remaining the backbone of our province. Family farms are also large businesses concerned with biosecurity on their farming operations. Their fundamental property rights and easement negotiations must be respected. It's all about being ethical. Manitobans are counting on Manitoba Hydro to respect the rights of all Manitobans, rural and urban. Instead, the NDP is steamrolling through without paying a top–proper attention to landowners.

When will the Premier ensure that our provincial Crown corporations are respectful of the rights and needs of rural landowners? Hon. Greg Selinger (Premier): Hydro has strengthened its biosecurity protocols. They are offering 150 per cent of appraised market value. They are prepared to cover the legal costs or other costs of landowners that need consultation in order to make their case in front of Hydro.

So the whole point here is to do something that will ensure that specific landowners are treated fairly at the same time as we build greater energy security in the province of Manitoba, so all people in Manitoba, and especially rural Manitobans, benefit by a reliable, safe, affordable hydro system in Manitoba. That's the purpose of them being here, to

1304 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 24, 2014 provide safe, reliable, affordable energy in a timely manner. Movement forward was stalled when the opposition was in office. T hey did not do anything after 1996, and they lost 70 per cent of their transmission capacity down through the Interlake. What were they doing at that time, Mr. Speaker, when they could have been building additional transmission? They were privatizing the t elephone system. And the result? The rates have gone from the third lowest to the third highest for all Manitobans, including rural Manitobans. Mr. Gerrard: Mr.

Speaker, our farmers are preparing for seeding and will be putting in countless hours to produc e the excellent crops that we all rely on. Farmers should be treated with respect. While Manitoba Hydro has a code of ethics that specifically addresses how Hydro employees should deal with public officials, there is no specific

section for negotiations with landowners fairly, with respect and with sensitivity to biosecurity issues, like preventing the spread of clubroot and other crop diseases. Will the Premier commit to work with Manitoba Hydro to ensure such a

section is included in the code of ethic s for Manitoba Hydro employees? Can Manitobans expect this

section to be included within the next week? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, biosecurity is a very important issue, and Manitoba Hydro has increased and improved its biosecurity protocol. And I'm sure they will take the recommendations from the member from River Heights under consideration. The reality is this: We do not want biosecurity risks on any farm in Manitoba. We know that. When we saw the recent outbreak of disease among –in the hog industry, our people were on it immediately, Mr. Speaker, and they are working on that as –very assiduously.

So we will work with all producers and Manitoba Hydro to ensure the biosecurity protocols are in place. That is fundamentally important to the security of our system. And I can tell you this, Mr. Speaker: The Minister of Agriculture has very significant resources in his budget for biosecurity, tracing products, making sure there are safe products on the land, because the reputation of our products is among the best in the world and we intend to keep it that way. Mr. Speaker: The honourable member for River Heights, on a final supplementary. Mr. Gerrard: Mr.

Speaker, last week the Auditor General raised a number of concerns about the ethical environment within the Premier's govern - ment. One third of government employees said they were aware of ethical misconduct and fraudulent activity within their workplace. The government's Procurement Administration Manual has a

chapter entitled Ethics in Procurement, but the chapter, as the auditor reports, is empty. What is the Premier doing to address the government's lack of ethics and also address the ethics of Manitoba's Crown corporations? Mr. Selinger: Mr. Speaker, one of the things we discovered when we came to office is there was no code of ethics nor guidelines for ethics in the provincial government. That has now been put in place. That has now been in–put in place with the leadership of the Civil Service Commission. Another piece of legislation that was completely absent in Manitoba was whistle -blower legislation.

We have now brought in whistle -blower legislation, which the members opposite resisted every step of the way. And, in addition, we've had for many years now, Mr. Speaker, an Ombudsman in Manitoba. So when you have ethics in terms of guidelines, when you have a whistle -blower legislation and you have an Ombudsman, you have some of the institutional requirements necessary. But even more important is to train public servants to act ethically, and that is part of what we do in the Civil Service Commission. We have training for all new employees, and that training can be strengthened.

And we look forward to strengthening those resources, because I can tell you Manitoba civil servants offer good value to the people of Manitoba. They provide very good services to the people of Manitoba, and they know that they can even do better, and we will work with them to do that, Mr. Speaker. Criminal Property Forfeiture Fund Law Enforcement and Victim Services Ms. Melanie Wight (Burrows): Mr. Speaker, I'm happy to say that Manitoba is a very hostile place for organized crime. Together with the police and the RCMP, programs like the Criminal Property Forfeiture Unit

March 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1305 have been a great success in the work that they do, and it is absolutely a favourite in my constituency. So I would love it if the Minister of Justice would please provide the House with an update on some of our recent work done by this department to help keep our communities safe. Hon. Andrew Swa n (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I'm certainly pleased to stand with the RCMP and the Winnipeg Police Service this morning as we announced nearly $1 million forfeited from criminal activity going to the province for good purposes.

Just two pol ice stops near Headingley actually resulted in nearly a million dollars being forfeited, some of the largest successful forfeitures in the province's history. With the great work of police, we continue to take very large sums of money out of crime and reinvest that money across the province to support victims, to support police and to support public safety programs. I'm proud to work with our police to reduce crime and keep our communities safe.

Last summer, over $1 million was distributed to police serv ices across the province to purchase specialized equipment to provide important training opportunities and support community -based crime prevention programs. The Victim Services branch and victims' organizations received money. We're working together to build a safer and stronger Manitoba. Mr. Speaker: Order, please. The minister's time has expired. MASC Office Closure Government Timeline Mr. Shannon Martin (Morris): Mr.

Speaker, last week I asked the Minister of Agriculture about the closure of Manito ba Agricultural Services Corporation offices in the town of Morris. The minister confirmed their closure on Wednesday, then denied it on Thursday. Needless to say, there's some confusion among the four full -time workers and the one satellite worker who have been advised that their office is to be relocated out of the town of Morris. Can the minister clarify as to when the MASC office in the town of Morris is scheduled to be closed? Hon.

Ron Kostyshyn (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Development): Just to clarify the accusations the member opposite's bringing forward, is I've said the department is reviewing all offices throughout the province of Manitoba. I'm sure the member opposite is aware of the fact what we used to do 20, 25 years ago as an agricultural producer, as I was, I didn't–I do not use a double-disc seed drill to grow a crop these days. The majority of them are air seeders. The question I'm trying to put forward to the member opposite is, do we continue to live in the back ages of years ago? But, first and foremost, Mr.

Speaker, MTS sold out–the young farmers rely on cellphone service. Where was the party that sees a vision of new economic development for the farming community and cellphone service is a top priority today– Mr. Spe aker: Order, please. The honourable minister's time has expired. Time for oral questions has expired. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Mr. Speaker: It's time for members' statements. Dr. Denis Mukwege Ms. Christine Melnick (Riel): Mr. Speaker, every now and then we become aware of, or if we are truly lucky, meet a person who lifts us up above the fray of everyday life and reminds us of what is truly important.

Such is the case with Dr. Denis Mukwege, the founder and medical director of the Panzi Hospital in the Demo cratic Republic of Congo, specializing in gynecology and obstetrics. Amid the war in eastern DRC in 1998, he initiated the construction of Panzi Hospital in Bukavu. The hospital has become known worldwide for the treatment of survivors of sexual violence and women with severe gynecological problems. In the DRC, sexually based gender violence is not a crime, and women are violated without any hope of seeking justice.

The Panzi Hospital was built to accommodate 150 women, often treats 400 women at any giv en time and annually treats over 2,000 women who know that they will receive free medical attention, some requiring up to two years of reparative surgery. Children are born of these violent acts, and it is difficult and often unsafe for women to leave the hospital. In response to this, Dr. Mukwege has built Maison Dorcas, a second -stage housing facility on the grounds of the hospital. In time, it will provide not only housing, but also early-learning and child-care programs. Mr. Speaker, there are childr en

1306 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 24, 2014 of up to four years old who have never left the grounds of the hospital. * (14:20) Dr. Mukwege is a tireless advocate for the rights of women in the DRC. He has addressed the United Nations General Assembly and has been the recipient of many awards. H e is a three- time nominee for the Nobel Peace Prize. Recently, he received the Hillary Rodham Clinton Award for Advancing Women in Peace and Security. In his speech, Dr.

Mukwege accepted the award on behalf of the women of the DRC who are now seeking a voi ce in peace and justice after overcoming violence and strife. To quote Dr. Mukwege, I strongly believe that those who have endured violence in conflict times have the capacity to act as an agent for peace and security, and deserve a place at the negotiat ion table in peace talks. Mr. Speaker, I am humbled and thankful to the good doctor, Dr. Denis Mukwege, for gracing our province with his presence. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Braden Calvert Junior Curling Rink Mr.

Stuart Briese (Agassiz): On February the 19th, I was pleased to attend a social evening fundraiser for Carberry's Braden Calvert and his Manitoba junior curling team that have won the right to represent Canada at the World Junior Curling Championships in Flims, Switzerland. Braden's father taught him how to curl right after he started to walk, and he's been curling ever since.

Braden was part of Carberry Collegiate's 2013 provincial high school championship team, and on February 11th, 2013, Braden was awarded the Tri-Star Rural High School Athlete of the Week when he led his team to victory at the provincial high school curling championships. His team went un- defeated with a record of 11 wins through his own championships and provincials. His coach, Grant Calvert, stated Braden is very dedicated and passionate about the game of curling. He was a player that will remain calm under pressure and is a great leader for his team. His outgoing personality is one of his greatest strengths.

Braden's team for the Canadian juniors was made up with third Kyl e Kurz, second Lucas Van Den Bosch and lead Brendan Wilson. The coach was Tom Clasper. To win the Canadian juniors, Braden's rink beat New Brunswick at the Queens place centre in Liverpool, Nova Scotia, in the gold medal game on Sunday, January 26th. Manit oba finished with a 9-and-1 record in round robin play. It's a dream come true, really, said an ecstatic Calvert.

The win in Nova Scotia allowed the Manitoba rink to wear Canadian colours on the world stage in Switzerland for the world juniors, which took place from February 26th to March the 5th. In Switzerland, Team Canada advanced to the playoffs with a 6 -3 record in round robin play and ended up in the bronze medal game. Canada came just short in the final end of the bronze medal game, losing 7-5 to N orway. They finished fourth, just out of the medals. Calvert said his team really battled hard and they learned a lot about their team and what they are capable of.

We'll definitely be hungry for next year, we're looking forward to it and we have a lot of positives to take home. Mr. Speaker, I ask all the members of the House to join me in congratulating the Braden Calvert junior curling team and wishing them well in their continued success. Thank you. Mission to Mexico Literacy Project Ms. Deanne Crothers (St. James): I am honoured to welcome to the Legislature today two incredible young men from my constituency, Devon and Jeremy Liscum, the founders of the Mission to Mexico Literacy Project.

These young men, with the full support of their parents, fu ndraise and collect school supplies for two education programs in some of the most impoverished communities in Mexico. Ten years ago, while on a family holiday in Puerto Vallarta, brothers Devon and Jeremy were inspired by the incredible work being done by a local organization called the Children of the Dump. This group provides daycare support, hot meals and after -school English, math and computer education programs to the families who live around the city dump.

Each school year, the brothers have organi zed fundraisers in their schools for this group, including bake sales, licorice sales, silver collections and concerts. Devon and Jeremy have also made presentations at other local schools, increasing understanding about the challenges these families

March 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1307 face. In turn, many of these schools start fundraising themselves on behalf of the Mission to Mexico Literacy Project. Over the years, Devon and Jeremy began collecting donations for a second community group called the Volcanes Community Education Project. This program offers English and computer classes to students and mothers, and recently opened the area's first public library. Since they began fundraising, Devon and Jeremy have raised over $13,000. This June, Devon will graduate high school.

His dream before graduation was to take a team of those who have helped with the project to work in these schools and communities. This past February his dream became a reality when Devon and Jeremy, their parents, two classmates and six educators travelled to Puert o Vallarta for the Mission to Mexico 2014 literacy project. Mr. Speaker, Devon, Jeremy and their parents are helping impoverished families transform their lives by breaking the cycle of poverty.

On behalf of the Legislative Assembly, I would like to comme nd Devon and Jeremy for their incredible volunteerism, their dedication, their kindness and empathy. Thank you, very much. Canadian Fire Fighters Curling Championship Mr. Cliff Cullen ( Spruce Woods): I am pleased to rise in the House today to advise mem bers of a major event coming to Manitoba this week. And no, Mr. Speaker, I’m not speaking of the Junos. Manitoba and Winnipeg will be hosting the 55th annual Canadian Fire Fighters Curling Championship. Ten teams from across the country will begin arriving this Thursday, March 27th.

The format for the competition is similar to the Brier, as teams will play a round robin with four teams qualifying for the playoff round. The winning team will be presented the Hydrant Trophy on Saturday, April the 5th. A u nique aspect of this event is the aerial ladder draw, where two aerial trucks will be positioned, ladders will be raised and firefighters will drop the flag of each team represented along the length of the ladder. This will determine the round robin order. The ladder draw will be held at 6 p.m., March 28th, at the Canad Inns Club Regent, the hospitality headquarters for the event.

The curling, as well as opening and closing ceremonies, will take place at the Fort Rouge Curling Club. The main sponsor for the event is Draeger Safety. Mr. Speaker, in 1958, a Vancouver firefighter, Aubrey Neff, had a dream to start a Dominion firefighters' curling championship. A proposal was sent to every major Canadian city. Howard Smith, from Winnipeg, responded on behalf of Manitoba. Five provincial teams participated in the first Dominion Fire Brier in 1960. The Dan Michalchuk rink won the right to represent Manitoba, but due to previous commitments will not attend the Canadians.

The runner -up team of Daryl Bjornson, Jamie Pachkowsky, Bill MacDonald, Kris Rosolowich and Director Guy Senecal will wear the famous Manitoba buffaloes. Having had the opportunity to curl in two Canadian championships, I can tell you this is a fantastic national event with fierce competition, great hospitality and social opportunities second to none. I wish to acknowledge the work of host committee chair, Bob Poole, and his committee for their work in preparing and hosting the event. Results can be obtained on the link through both the Manitoba and Canadian Fire Fighters Curling Association websites.

My best wishes to all competitors and fans. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Aboriginal Music Program Mr. Frank Whitehead (The Pas): Mr. Speaker, thousands of Manitobans make their livelihoods in music. Music has been a part of Manitoba's cultural landscape for generations, and it will continue to be, thanks to organizations like the Aboriginal Music Program. Manitoba's music–Aboriginal Music Program offers the tools for Aboriginal musicians to start their careers in the music industry. For 10 years, the AMP has been deeply involved in the success of hundreds of Aboriginal musicians in our province.

Launched in 2004, the AMP helps First Nations, Metis and Inuit individuals develop sustainable careers in music –in Manitoba's music industry. The program works because it connects artists and entrepreneurs with opportunities in Manitoba's music industry and beyond. The AMP offers mentorship programs, advice and tools to develop a career in the industry, funding help and access to conferences, workshops and networking events. This means Aboriginal musicians have easy access to the services they need to thrive.

1308 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 24, 2014 It's hard not to notice the impact programs like AMP are having for the Aboriginal music industry, especially during Manitoba's Year of Music. This week, for example, Winnipeg hosts the Juno Awards. Congratulations to Desiree Dorion for her Juno nomination for Aboriginal Album of the Year. Aboriginal Music Week is also set for August 20th to 24th this year, and in September Winnipeg will host the Aboriginal Peoples Choice Music Awards. * (14:30) Mr. Speaker, these festivals and award ceremonies celebrate Aboriginal achievement in all genres of music.

Thanks to the Aboriginal Music Program, Aboriginal musicians will continue to have a place to grow their musical talents. Thank you. Mr. Speaker: I believe that concludes members' statements. GRIEVANCES Mr. Speaker: We'll now move on to grievances. The honourable member for Midland, on a grievance. Mr. Blaine Pedersen (Midland): On a grievance, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I am saddened, I am embarrassed and I am so thoroughly disappointed in this govern- ment for their lack of respect for property rights and their stranglehold on Manitoba Hydro.

Today, some 80 landowners took time out of their busy days to come to Manitoba Hydro's headquarters and to this Legislature. Landowners are angry at this government's attempt to take away their property rights. Landowners did not seek out Bipole III to be built a cross their properties. This was not a community -driven project seeking local support. Bipole III is a Manitoba Hydro project ordered by the NDP government. Who else would take a circular route around Manitoba, creating higher line losses and costing at l east an extra $1 billion, and needlessly crossing the most productive farmland in Manitoba?

But the fact remains, a licence has been granted and property owners now have to deal with it. So the landowners affected by this colossal mistake had no alt ernative but to form the Manitoba bipole landowners committee, MBLC. They quickly realized Manitoba Hydro did not have their best interests at heart. The consultation and route-planning process was a sham. The Clean Environment Commission hearings were a mere formality for the government's preconceived plan.

Then the government hired an Alberta company as their land agent, fully expecting landowners –fully expecting property owners to sit down, shut up and sign. Now landowners have come together to prote ct their property rights. Of course, the NDP will accuse the MBLC, they'll accuse me, they'll accuse anyone they can think of as being obstructionist. Blame placing comes very easy to a government struggling to survive and to justify their poor decision ma king. The MBLC is not antidevelopment. The MBLC realizes Manitoba has a licence to build Bipole III.

The MBLC realizes, in spite of all the damning evidence against this project, they, as landowners, must prepare to make the best of a very bad situation. But, in doing so, the NDP and Manitoba Hydro must show some semblance of respect for property rights. This transmission line will be there for the next one hundred years, so let us get it right. The NDP may be feeling a time crunch to push this project forw ard, but landowners do not need to feel obligated to hastily sign away their property rights before their legitimate concerns are addressed.

When the MBLC was formed about a year ago, the first item of business was to contact Manitoba Hydro to inform them a landowner group was organized and to request a preliminary meeting. This meeting finally took place in November 2013. The purpose of this meeting was to explain to Manitoba Hydro how the landowner negotiations would take place. Obviously, Manitoba Hydro was somewhat taken aback, because immediately following the meeting, Manitoba Hydro replaced two employees with one hard- nosed spokesperson. The games had begun.

The NDP are not used to pushback but the NDP failed to realize property rights really do matter to Manitobans. Manitoba property owners have every right to be treated with respect, be treated fairly, equitably and have their concerns addressed, something this government seems to have forgotten about. And their concerns are many. As I've already mentioned, Manitoba Hydro has received a licence to build Bipole III, but this does not absolve the Crown corporation from sitting down with the MBLC to begin the process of addressing these many concerns.

It quickly became apparent last fall this NDP-controlled Manitoba Hydro had no interest or

March 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1309 respect for landowners. When confronted by property owners, Manitoba survey –Manitoba Hydro survey crews threatened with the long arm of the law. When that did not deter landowners concerned by the lack of biosecurit y protocols used by the survey crews, the NDP Manitoba Hydro employed security guards to enforce their encroachment on private property. Mr. Speaker, this is truly thug mentality. Now Manitoba Hydro, using the 192 NDP communicators, have tried to spin the myth of a biosecurity protocol.

Manitoba Hydro even resorted to using newspaper adds to try and sell the public of their new -found biosecurity concerns. But MBLC members are already a step –of Manitoba Hydro and this NDP government as they have approved a comprehensive biosecurity protocol for their individual farms. This is not negotiable. This is the biosecurity Manitoba Hydro will be using, not the Mickey Mouse, NDP public relations version. You see, the sooner Manitoba Hydro would agree to sit down with the MBLC, the sooner these types of issues could be resolved.

For example, it would be a shame if Manitoba Hydro becomes responsible for spreading clubroot in canola, or PED in hogs; who would pay the cost of that? The NDP Manitoba Hydro issued a letter to MBLC dated March 14th of this year. In this letter from Mr. Brad Ireland, Manitoba Hydro restated their position of not providing MBLC with any material in advance, and Mr. Ireland further stated Manitoba Hydro will be taking out a take-it-or-leave- it offer to landowners in early April.

This is akin to dictatorships where property rights are not recognized by a central government; so when did Manitoba become a dictatorship? Besides biosecurity, what the NDP Manitoba Hydro is failing to address is th e myriad of other issues affected by Bipole III. With the construction of Bipole III, Manitoba is creating an economic dead zone some 150 miles long across southern Manitoba. There will be no building construction within a half mile of the line on either s ide. Property values will decline and when assessments decline, municipals revenue decline.

Are the landowners here in the gallery expected to pick up the cost just because their property is in the target area? The NDP Manitoba Hydro has tried to buy thei r way out of this with community development funds– community development initiative funds, trying to buy silence from municipalities by offering hush money while leaving themselves a huge loophole to opt out of payments once they know the line will be completed, a total disrespect on the integrity of municipal governments. But then what do you expect from a government with no integrity and a spending addiction?

What about the liability issues for property owners where towers are located? They will be responsible–as landowners –they will be responsible for any damage occurring to the towers, no matter who is responsible for that damage. Are landowners expected to pick up the additional insurance costs? What about the ongoing costs of working around the towers? A one-time payment just does not cut it. Each and every year these towers will affect agricultural practices. What about the expansion of irrigation for high -value crops such as potatoes and the interference those transmission lines would have on irrig ation?

Are landowners expected to pick up the cost of lost productivity each and every year forever? Mr. Speaker, what worries the NDP Manitoba Hydro the most is the precedent being set with these landowners and the MBLC being present here today in the ga llery. The NDP Manitoba Hydro is already planning to build three more transmission lines in southern Manitoba. If they are not successful –if the NDP is not successful in ramming the Bipole III over top of landowners' rights, if the NDP must take into account landowners' concerns as they've refused to do 'til now, it now sets a precedent for the future. Mr.

Speaker, I want to acknowledge the landowners here today and thank them for being here. They've taken time and travel to be here and it's–I certainly th ank them for expressing their interest in this. Mr. Speaker: I've cautioned our guests here in the gallery with us here this afternoon not to involve themselves in the proceedings of the House. I'm once again asking for your co- operation, that is to inclu de no applause. So I'm asking for your co-operation. The honourable member for Midland, to com - plete his statement. * (14:40) Mr.

Pedersen: What you as landowners are doing by standing up for your property rights is essential for the very democracy we are so proud of in this country. Do not allow the NDP Manitoba Hydro to bully you.

1310 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 24, 2014 Every day in this building we see a government desperately trying to cling to power, interfering with Manitoba Hydro and imposing their spending addictions on hard-working Manitobans. I thank you for taking the time out of your busy day today to be here today. Your recognition of the seriousness of the impact Bipole III will have on your property will assure property rights remain alive and well in Manitoba. Thank you for coming and have a safe trip home. Mr. Speaker: Any further grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Mr.

Speaker: Seeing none, we'll move onto orders of the day, government business. Hon. Andrew Swan (Government House Leader): Mr. Speaker, you please call Committee of Supply? Mr. Speaker: We'll now resolve into the Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, will you please take the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) INFRASTRUCTURE AND TRANSPORTATION * (14:50) Mr. Chairperson (Mohinder Saran): Order. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Infrastructure and Transportation. As previously agreed , questions for the department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Hon. Steve Ashton (Minister of Infrastructure and Transportation): Yes, I wanted to just read into the record some information. And I do want to indicate we're continuing as issues are raised to respond as soon as we're able to get the information. There was a question asked as to where the five-year infrastructure plan shows up in MIT Estimates.

I did want to indicate –I had indicated in my initial respons e the fact that what we're talking about in the five -year plan is core infrastructure and we can find that–actually, the five-year plan includes a total of $1.026 billion in core infrastructure investments in 2014-15, including $706.7 million for roads, hi ghways and bridges, and $42.4 million for flood protection.

These Estimates are broken down in more detail in the budget documents as follows: roads, highways, bridges and critical transportation infrastructure, $706.7 million in total, and the breakdown of that is $548.5 million for highway infrastructure, which is reflected on page 139 of our detailed Estimates – that's in appropriation 15.(a)(1); $14.1 million for transportation capital, which is reflected on page 139 of MIT's Estimates–that's appropriati on 15.(a)(2); $2 million for airport runways –that's reflected on page 139 of MIT's Estimates, appropriation 15.(b)(2); $142.1 million for highway maintenance and preservation, which is broken down into more detail on page 119 of MIT's Estimates –that's s ub- appropriation 15- 4A; in terms of flood protection, $32.8 million on water control capital, which is reflected on page 139 of MIT's Estimates, appropriation 15.(b)(1); $9.6 million on maintenance of flood control and protection infrastructure, which is broken down in more detail on page 121 of MIT's Estimates, subappropriation 15-4B.

Note that there's also $276.6 million for municipal infrastructure. This appears in Municipal Government's Estimates, the department of local government, and it's part of t he Building Manitoba Fund. So, again, I do have that breakdown and perhaps I'll give this to–for Hansard's purpose. There were some other issues that were raised. Again, as we do get them, we'll either table them here and if there are more detailed answers that we need to respond to– Estimates does complete part of that time –I will undertake to get in writing to the critic or to the MLA or both. Mr. Ron Schuler ( St.

Paul ): Yes, thank you very much, and I'd like to raise once again with the minister the Ol ' Lamplighter issue on the corner of 206 and 15. With the changing of the traffic pattern, the twinning of that intersection, lights going in, it seems to have adversely affected Bud McIvor there. Could the minister just tell committee where we are on that issue? Mr. Ashton : Yes, we have been trying to get an access road in behind because it's not feasible in the front. We're certainly aware of the situation, and I appreciate the member for having raised it in the past.

March 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1311 Mr. Schuler: Also, a Margaret Rodzinski has been corresponding with my office and with the minister, and that's also at 15 and 206–it's a very popular intersection this afternoon –and complained about damage to her house because of c onstruction. I've sent this to the minister, and I was just wondering if the minister could tell committee where are we on Margaret Rodzinski's issue. Mr.

Ashton: Yes, we do have a standard process for complaints during construction, and I'm not in a position to update on this specific case but will ensure it's looked at appropriately. Mr. Schuler: On the corner of 206 and 15, the Springfield Ag Society has their fields as well as the Springfield Braves have their baseball diamond. A little bit of configu ration took place there as well.

They lost a little bit of land, and over the years they have sold space on the fence for individuals to hang four-by-eights along the fence, and this year they were told to take them all down because it was in contravention of highway law. They were just too close to the highway, evidently. What's odd about this is the way the signs were facing was in a zone that I believe the speed is down to 70 kilometres an hour or even less. It's –there's a traffic light on that corner so you have to slow down, and you're going through town; you have to slow down. It's part of a school zone; you have to slow down.

Yet somehow, the department deemed it that they had to pull all the signs down, which they did, and it's going to adversely af fect the Springfield Braves in their ability to put on a program in Dugald. And I was wondering if the minister could just tell us why would they have gotten caught up on something that really is in a urban setting, and it's not really in a rural setting. And, if the minister is being briefed by his department, I can wait before I can pose the question. But –like–I do believe this was punitive and fairly harsh on the Springfield Braves. Mr.

Ashton : I certainly appreciate people want to put signs to adverti se events. Generally speaking, with very few exceptions, we don't authorize them in a highway right-of-way, urban or rural, for a number of reasons, not the least of which is to ensure that the right-of-way's unobstructed, and we're also very cognizant w ith signs generally not to create unnecessary distractions. So I can certainly look at it, but I can assure the member it's not punitive, and if the department has made a decision, it really is based on normal policy.

We have a standard policy across the province for rural and urban scenarios that does protect the highway right -of-way. There are opportunities for signage that–we do have many, you know, permitted sign locations and there are, of course, other areas other than highways' right-of-ways that are available. So I'm not sure of the history of this, but I can assure the member that it's certainly not punitive. You know, it's important for our staff to be able to, you know, follow through in terms of standard highway policy throughout the province, and that's what we would do in these kind of circumstances.

So I can certainly look at it, but I do want to, you know, put in that element from the highways staff side on it. You have a difficult job to do but, you know, one of the key elements is preserving safety. Mr. Schuler: Can the minister tell us what is policy– and I understand it starts from the middle of the highway to where the signs are allowed–what is that distance before any signage is allowed? Mr. Ashton : Yes, it–the right -of-way can vary, again, to the different highways, different level.

The key feature is not having signage in the actual right-of-way itself, and that, again, would be something that would be determined by the department throughout the province. And, as I said, there are di fferent standards of highways, different scenarios, so it–you know, the answer is, it depends. But the basic principle of not having signs in the right-of-way is standard across the province. Mr.

Schuler: So, in the case of 206 and 15, with the Springfield Braves baseball diamond, what would be the distance before they would be allowed–what would be the distance that they would have to meet before they would be allowed to put signs up? Mr. Ashton: I'll undertake to get a specific answer back on this. Mr. Schuler: Could the minister then tell us, also then, what is the distance between the fence and the middle of the highway in the case of the Springfield Braves baseball diamond? What I'm trying to gather is how far out are they?

Because previous to this, they weren't in contravention because it all seemed to be fine, and then the department bought some land off of them, and now it's –now they're in contravention of it. And really, very little has changed where the fence is. So anyway, if the minister could get that for me, I'd appreciate it. And as usual, I thank the minister's commit to looking into these things.

1312 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 24, 2014 Mr. Ashton : I appreciate the question. We'll get a detailed follow -up and, I think, in the member's

preamble to his last question, he's probably indicated some of the elements, here, as well, if there was a land reallocation –has been a change in terms of that, that may be a factor. But I'll get a specific answer, which I know from previous Estimates, I think we've –we're batting a hundred per cent – not necessarily in the responses, but certainly in responding. Mr. Reg Helwer (Brandon West): Mr. Chair, just a couple of questions about some promises that have been made in various documents, one was about Highway 57 being raised to an interstate standard.

Now, my understanding is interstate standard means that there are frontage roads with limited access and diamond interchanges or cloverleafs. Is that what the minister–what the promises are to be taken for Highway 57? Mr. Ashton : I'm certain the me mber's referring to Highway 75. An Honourable Member: Oh, sorry, highway –you are correct. Highway 75, yes. Mr. Ashton : Basically, we've been very clear that we're aiming right now for interstate standards in terms of flood protection.

The key element, you know, is an event that wouldn't shut down the interstate in, say, North Dakota, shouldn't be shutting down 75 in Manitoba. Also, in terms of a lot of our surface condition, that's also a key part of it. And we are–people will see a huge difference in it in terms that we do have some elements, too, very similar what someone would see on the interstate coming into play, not just on 75, but, for example, some of the work we're doing with diamond interchanges on the southwest Perimeter. And it doesn't mean we 're going to have all of the elements of the interstate system.

But, you know, many of the elements that exist in the interstate system wouldn't apply here. We–basically, on Highway 75, for example, don't have significant concentrations of population on 75 outside of Morris itself. And, of course, the key issue in Morris is going to be maintaining its ability to stay open. So when we talk about interstate standards, we've been very clear. It can be interstate standards toward flood protection, the kind of surface that's there. You'll see some greater connection in terms of speed limits, as well, because we will be able to increase the number of areas where we're at 110.

So that's the specific element. And we've made similar commitments, too, if you look at what's going to happen with our $320- million investment on Highway 1 both west and east of Winnipeg, it's going to bring Highway 1 up to a standard that would match any interstate in terms of surface condition, in terms of the geometry of the highway, in terms of the shoulders.

So a very significant upgrade that will –I think people will appreciate because probably the biggest area of difference, really, if you were either visiting from the States or coming back from a visit as a Canadian, quite frankly, until we started to build up 75 in 1999 it was an embarrassment when you hit the border. We've already done a significant amount of work. But we're going to have more than $200 million, and people are going to see and feel and smell the difference. I think I've used that line before. * (15:00) Mr. Kelvin Goertzen (Steinbach): Mr.

Chairperson, in a question to the minister–I think I've posed this to him previously when he was minister of this department; maybe under a different name, but the same type of question regarding Highway No. 12 in the city of Steinbach –that's a provincial highway that goes through the community –and also 52 which goes through the middle of the community. As he knows well, lots of growth around the community, lots of increased traff ic, intersections that aren't designed for the type of traffic that they've had.

In particular, the corner of Park Road and Clearspring, I know is–or 12 and Clearspring and 12 and Park Road are difficult intersections, and perhaps for their standard, maybe one of the more dangerous intersections in the province. Any consideration on upgrades to the intersections that go through the city of Steinbach on either 52 or Highway 12? Mr. Ashton : As the member knows, Steinbach is growing. It's putting pressure on in terms of urban transportation pressures, not unlike similar pressures in other growing communities.

I can indicate we have had some very good meetings with the City of Steinbach and Mayor Goertzen, in particular, has pointed to some of the increasing pr essure. We are, of course, in a position now this year to offer a full year of the specific program within the capital program that allows for cost sharing with the municipalities of issues related to highways that are particularly rural –or, pardon me, rur al municipality or urban municipality priorities. And I want to indicate that we've already approved some funding

March 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1313 for Steinbach looking at some of the transportation planning in that area, and we would be very open to that. One of the reasons we put that $25- million fund in place–and there's a similar fund that we've had for cost sharing with industry –is the degree to which, you know, while obviously you have your standard highway capital program, there may be priorities that are important to municipalitie s. And certainly in Steinbach that has been identified, and certainly the City of Steinbach is very interested in pursuing those kind of discussions.

So I think the answer, in addition to the general answer, is that we're into early stages of some signific ant discussions of ways of dealing with some of the pressures in and around Steinbach. I know we certainly did respond in terms of the traffic lights before, you know, in the location the member's more than aware of, but the bottom line here is Steinbach's growing. The city is very open to discussion on this basis, and a good mayor in terms of Mayor Goertzen, and I always figure any MLA that's raising a constituency issue is good.

We also, you know, we're looking particularly at the Park Road i ntersection, and, again, that could be as early as next budget year with the cost sharing of Steinbach, you know –with Steinbach. So it's also important to note, by the way, even when you have a highway capital initiative that goes through a community, often the intersections and various other dimensions are really municipal, so we work co- operative.

A good example is, actually, on 75, where we worked very closely with the Town of Morris when we did the major upgrade of Highway 75 through the community that involved some sig - nificant work on their drainage, utilities connecting in with their roads. So we have quite a bit of experience with that, 75 being the –you know, the most recent, but it's not the only one. So certainly Steinbach is –we recognize it's a growing community, and we're in discussions as we speak with the City of Steinbach on looking at ways of accommodating that. Mr.

Goertzen: I thank the minister for that response, and I note the lights that he talks about at the intersection of 12 and Clears pring Road, and he made reference to the intersection of Park Road and Highway 12, which is –I think at one point even a few years ago it was rated, you know, for its rating classification, one of the most dangerous inter - sections in terms of collisions in the province. Could you be more specific on that particular intersection?

Is there discussion of having the same kind of intersection that there is further south on the highway–they have the slotted lanes for turning–that type of intersection? Mr. Ashton: Yes, that's the kind of approach we're looking at. Mr. Goertzen: He was –and I think that approach has worked well, because it's sort of a –the large interlay between the two highways. Is he indicating that might be looked at in the next budget year? Is that what he indicated in his previous answer? Mr.

Ashton : That's correct, and we are in discussions with Steinbach because, again, any of these urban projects, it really comes down to having full co -operation with the municipality, and when I say co -operation, could include some cost -sharing, but equally as important as the traffic planning. Mr. Goertzen: Any consideration in the Hanover area in that –Highway 311 between Highway 12 and 59? And in that area, of course, is New Bothwell, which is always close to my heart being my wife's hometown, but also because of New Bothwell cheese and the good industry that that is.

And I know they've had some difficulties with road restrictions around there and the ability to get the ir–both their inputs in terms of milk to the factory and less so, I suppose, getting their product out. And as you know, it's become quite popular and quite an industry. Any consideration to upgrading the roads in that area not just specifically for them in terms of road restriction, but would be helpful to other industries in the area too? Mr. Ashton : Yes, we're certainly aware of the concern and certainly do want to acknowledge the really significant growth.

We did work with them very closely during the recent gas explosion, the impacts that had. They were, you know, very much impacted early on, but there –you know, there were some very significant measures taken both by the local municipalities, but also, you know, with the pipeline company and with provincial staff to deal with their immediate concern. And, actually, I do want to indicate that they did raise this when my colleague the member for Dawson Trail (Mr. Lemieux) went in to visit at that time, you know, determine if there any issues.

It seems that there were relatively few issu es on the emergency response side, but certainly that came up in terms of the highway. And certainly we would

1314 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 24, 2014 look at that. One thing that is going to help across the board is the degree to which we're also now moving to a science- based, more flexible appr oach in terms of spring restrictions because this is a good year, spring is going to come. If you look at it, it's quite a bit later than normal and the real issue is many of our previous schedules would reflect past practice, not current reality, and when the ground is frozen, you don't need the spring restrictions; obviously, the ground is still solidly frozen.

So, in addition to looking at the specific location, what we have done across the province is move to a science- based approach for spring road restrictions. You see the impact particularly in –you know, with the Saskatchewan boundary because they were able to get more co -ordination between the spring road restrictions now between Saskatchewan and Manitoba. But that general principle applies across the province, and we think that will help them in their operations as well. Mr.

Goertzen: Well, I'll leave it as simply as a reminder and awareness for the minister and his staff, just regards to the concerns that still exist around that area and road rest rictions, in particular for New Bothwell cheese, but other industries as well, and the ability for them to, sort of, properly manage what is a growing business, as the minister notes, and a good business for Manitoba, and one that we hope to continue to se e prosper and add jobs and add things to our province.

So I'll just leave that as a note that those – there are still concerns around the restrictions, I understand, you know, around the natural gas explosion. Also, I was out and about in the areas and I'm glad to see that the disruption was as minor as I suppose it could be given the significance of it for those who were impacted, and a lot of communities banded together and people helping each other out in that circumstance, those who were interrupted fr om gas service or heat and other sort of services they were relying on.

So that was positive, but we have the longer term issue, of course, of those road restrictions in that area and how it's impacting Bothwell Cheese and others. So I'll leave that with you, and I'll defer back to my colleague from Brandon West, who is the critic, unless the minister has a brief response. Mr. Ashton: Yes, just briefly, I acknowledge, again, the growth and I think it's particularly important that we work with them. There are going some challenges ahead for anyone in the cheese industry with the free trade agreement with the European community.

But I can tell you, as a consumer more than as an MLA and minister, I can say they have a quality of product that can match anyone and I think actually they've had some real success in actually branding themselves. * (15:10) So I look forward to the day when maybe somebody in Europe's going to try and copy the Bothwell Cheese name, because I think it's been branded certainly in Ca nada and to the great degree perhaps not really seen outside of Quebec. Quebec is well known for its cheese industry, and I think we often tend to forget what's happening here.

So I certainly agree with the importance of this operation, we'll certainly take it into consideration. I appreciate the member for raising it. Mr. Goertzen: And I'll pass those comments on to Ivan Balenovic, the president, and Rob Hiebert , the plant manager, and the others who are involved in the facility. I know they'll appreciate the minister looking at addressing some of the concerns around roads, but also appreciate the accolades that were passed on on the quality of cheese, which I'll echo as well. Mr. Helwer: Well, I know there's many more questions, and indeed I have some more.

But we do have to move on to other Estimates, and I don't want to take time away from them, so I think we're prepared to move into the appropriation area. Mr. Chairperson: Seeing no further questions now. Resolution 15.2: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $49,455,000 for Infrastructure and Transportation, Highways and Transportation Programs. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 15.3: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $53,901,000 for Infrast ructure and Transportation, Government Services Programs, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015.

Resolution agreed to. Resolution 15.4: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $180,820,000 for Infrastructure and Transportat ion, Infrastructure Works, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015. Resolution agreed to.

March 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1315 Resolution 15.5: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $2,655,000 for Infrastructure and Transportation, Emergency Measures Organization, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015. Resolution agreed to. Resolution 15.6: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $365,135,000 for Infrastructure and Transportation, Costs Related to Capital Assets, for th e fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015. Resolution agreed to.

Resolution 15.7: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $682,920,000 for Infrastructure and Transportation, Capital Assets, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015. Resolution agreed to. The last item to be considered for the Estimates of this department is item 15.1.(

a) the minister's salary, contained in resolution 15.1. At this point we request that the minister's staff leave the table for the consideration of this last item. The floor is open for questions. Mr. Helwer: I move that line 15.1.(

a) be amended so that the minister's salary be reduced to $20,010. Mr. Chairperson: Order. Order. Order, please. Order, please. It has been moved by the honourable member for Brandon West that line 15.1.(

a) be amended so that the minister's salary be reduced to $20,010– $27,010. Motion is in order. Are there any questions or comments on the motion? Mr. Helwer: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I know this is a little bit diff erent than what normally happens, moving it to this regard. But this is the –obviously the minister's salary that we can address here, not his core Legislature's salary.

And you're probably wondering why it goes to that amount but it's down 27 per cent and I think it's quite fitting for this department, as over the next number –last number of years, 27 per cent is the amount that has been underspent on Manitoba's infrastructure, creating a deficit of some $1.9 billion. And we can well see out there now that Manitoba's infrastructure is suffering from that underspending.

This government has had more revenue than any before: record federal transfer payments, additional gas tax supposedly dedicated to roads, vehicle registration fee increases supposedly dedicated to roads, the biggest tax increase implemented in the last 25 years and PST, supposedly, increase going to roads, but they still can't keep their infrastructure promises. So that the minister can truly understand the impact and the effect of his spend ing cuts on Manitoba's infrastructure, he, too, should receive a cut to his budget by 27 per cent, only to his salary, of course. Perhaps, Mr.

Chair, he might reconsider –he might consider reallocating that portion of his salary to help fix Manitoba's crumbling roads and bridges. I know it's not very much, but he might make the gesture or will that require yet another year to go by so we can hear of the government's latest annual five-year infrastructure plan? And, in closing, Mr.

Chair, I do feel that giving the critic the Estimates one day ahead of the start of the Estimates process is quite disrespectful for this procedure and even I know today that some of the–in the Estimates books were distributed in the House today for us, as they may begin today, so very disrespectful to the entire Estimates procedure, Mr. Chair. Mr. Ashton : Well, first of all, I think standard practice in terms of the detailed Estimates books hasn't really changed –well, last number of years. This was the first Estimates up, so it w as no lack of respect intended.

It was just the reality of –we actually didn't find out we were going to be first in Estimates until a few days ago. We did bring out the information. You know, the ultimate conflict of interest for me, as minister, would be if my salary was pegged to investment in infrastructure because since 1999 – I was Highways minister in 1999, much smaller department. I'll give you just a sense of how much we're investing in infrastructure today: we've gone from a capital budget of less than $90 million to the point where it's $542 in this particular budget, $542, and that doesn't include preservation and maintenance.

It is an increase of more than 500 per cent. I want to indicate, as well, there are $5.5 -billion investment over the next number of years, we're

1316 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 24, 2014 going to back it up with measures to ensure that we do it on time and in sufficient magnitude to live up to our commitment. We've listened to the industry and many stakeholders. We will roll over capital into subsequent years an d I can say to the member, it's pretty rich coming from the opposition critic for Infrastructure to be talking about infrastructure in this province, investments to infrastructure when–not only when they were in government they didn't invest in infrastructure but they voted against every single budget.

And they've clearly indicated that they are opposed to the 1 cent on the dollar, the $300 million-plus of additional revenue, so, you know, we know what that means. If they were to form government, they w ould either cut the investment in infrastructure, cut other expenditures like Health and Education or probably both. * (15:20) So, you know, I appreciate that these things are more symbolic than anything else, but I can tell you, you know, the party of c rumbling roads and bridges in this province is the PC Party. That's the state in which they left the province in 1999.

And I mentioned the classic was where I –dealing with question on 75 earlier, it was embarrassment when you hit the border. I tell you, y ou didn't need speed bumps to slow you down on the Manitoba side, it was in such bad shape. And I would say to the member opposite, because I know –I've raised this in the past. I'm sure that the next thing members opposite are going to do when we do roll out our record five -year commitment, they're going to be complaining about construction delays. And you know what? I can tell you there will be a lot of construction delays, particularly on Highway 1.

And I can tell you, you know, that in all seriousness , this is historic investment, and the only party of crumbling infrastructure–in fact, my colleague from St. Norbert says PC stands for pavement crumbling here –that's really the situation it was left in. You know, so I don't take this personally. I know when I've been dealing with this as minister in other venues I used to use the refrain, I have kids in university and a mortgage to pay. Well, I still have a mortgage to pay. But you know what?

I'm very honoured to be Minister of Infrastructure in a government that really is taking the level of infrastructure investment probably to the highest level in 40 years. You'd have to go back to the Schreyer government, perhaps even back to the Roblin government as well, to see this. And I want to guarantee, you know, to the member, again –I want to stress –it may sound like a conflict of interest here. I'd be happy to be paid on the basis of our investment in infrastructure, probably a much higher amount. But you know, we have a commission that sets it independently. I'm not in it for the money, believe you me.

I don't think anybody in this Chamber is. And I'm quite happy to have the vote in that –on this, and I can tell you one thing. When I vote against this, I'm not voting against cutting my salary. I'm actually voting against the message that's attached to this budget by the opposition. I'm voting for our record- investment infrastructure and I'll work 24 -7 to make sure that as long as I have something to do with it, as long as our government has to do it, that M anitobans get the investment infrastructure they deserve. I'll be more interested, by the way, to see if they actually end up supporting our Estimates.

They just voted against the budget, and we'll see if they continue this through on the Estimates, because that's the other thing that's been standard: talk about infrastructure in question period and Estimates, and then vote against it when it comes to the real decisions. Our government is committed to investing in infrastructure, and I can say to members opposite I encourage them to get on board because we're ta king it to the next level. And my sense –the PC Party's got two options here. Either they get on board or they get out of the way of progress in this province.

And one of the key areas of progress you're going to see is improvements in our roads, improvement in our bridges, improvement in flood protection, even in the member for Brandon West's (Mr. Helwer) own constituency. I tell you, with the amount of work we're doing in Brandon over the next number of years on roads and bridges and flood protection, we 're probably going to–Brandon's probably going to sink at least a few inches under the weight of what we're putting in the way of infrastructure. But, you know, more importantly, it's going to be protected at 300 years in terms of flood infrastructure.

It' s going to have the roads and bridges it deserves. You'll be able to ride – drive on Victoria Avenue, and again, you won't have to have these artificial speed bumps that have been put in place. This is a government that's doing it. I invite members to get on board. That's why I would

March 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1317 invite them to reconsider this motion. If not, I certainly would encourage everyone to vote against it, not out of any conflict of interest, more out of saying that this is about investment in our future. Mr. Goertzen: You know, I appreciate the amendment by the member for Brandon West (Mr. Helwer) and also all the words that he's had over the months and years regarding infrastructure.

I thought he was in many ways generous to the member for the –the Minister of Infrastructure, an d was leaving him with more money than I might have, but I gave the benefit of the doubt to the minister. I was listening to his comments, and I thought there might be some recognition about the fact that they have underspent their budget so badly. And, in fact, it's probably the only area of their government that they've underspent, Mr. Speaker. And you know, the one place that Manitobans –it's funny about this government.

The one place that Manitobans probably wouldn't want them to underspend is infrastruc ture, and it's the only place they do underspend so significantly, in fact, and just another example of how they have the priorities of Manitobans wrong. I thought he might address that issue. I thought he might address the overwhelming number of pothole s in Winnipeg, Mr. Speaker.

I know, talking to, not just my friends in Winnipeg, but many people drive in Winnipeg who don't live in the city, and they continually drive –I think Charles Adler referred to it as the lunar surface on some areas of Winnipeg's –when they're flying over massive craters. And that might be something of hyperbole, but I don't think that it's far from what Manitobans would actually believe. And I'm sure that all members are hearing that.

They're deplored by the state of infrastructure , and they can't understand how, in fact, there is, on the one hand, all these different discussions about spending on infrastructure, not just this year, but in years past, but on the other hand, they see the results of that. And you can't hide from the r esults of that as you're driving through the city of Winnipeg and other areas of Manitoba. As well, Mr. Speaker, I appreciate of the fact, you know, in rural Manitoba, my area, the minister mentioned one of the intersections. But that intersection has be en in need for many years.

And I think it was his predecessor that I had the discussion with, and the need to have that intersection improved because there were so many accidents happening. And I think he gave some assurances, perhaps, at that time about how it was important, but the accidents continue to pile up. And they've piled up over the years. So I was certainly willing to support the amendment by the member for Brandon West, but having heard the comments from the member for –of infrastructure I think, actually, it was too rich. We gave him a chance, but, as a result of that, I have a subamendment I'd like to make.

And I'd move that all the words after reduced to –all the words b e deleted after the words reduced to and replaced with $2.70. I was willing to go with 27, and then I heard the answer. Mr. Chairperson: Order. This is further amended to the motion put forward by the member from Brandon West, has been amended–put forward to be amended by the member from Steinbach, to delete all words after reduced to and replaced with $2.70. So we will put it as written. Is there a question? Ready for questions? Okay. Mr. Ashton : Well, Thank you, Mr. Chairperson, I think this really –I've never seen this before.

Opposition– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Ashton: They think that's a compliment. But I think, Mr. Chairperson, I think what you see here is that there's, kind of, like, the initial agenda the Conservatives put forward, which is, kind of, light cuts, and then the real agenda, which is when tha t doesn't work, they move to major cuts. You know what, today they're moving to try and cut my salary. Again, I'll be the first one to say I have a personal stake in that.

But you know what, I think it indicates that, beware of the Conservatives, because what you're seeing right now is what they would do if they came into government. And I could get into details of what they did to infrastructure, by the way, when they froze or cut throughout most of the 1990s, particularly when the leader of the opposi tion was a member of Cabinet, and how we have actually more than tripled – even before our investment that we've announced in our five -year plan –the actual investments in infrastructure, and where people can see the difference.

But I make my point: I th ink this particular motion really symbolizes what the Conservatives are all about, which is they'll start off talking about minor cuts. In actual fact, their agenda is major cuts.

1318 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 24, 2014 Manitoba: been there, done that; it's called the PCs in the 1990s. And I'm not going to belabour the point. When it –if you want real investments in infrastructure, believe you me, I have the numbers here. I–and people can remember it. It's not the PCs. You know–you want cuts? Yes, vote for the PCs on this motion. Vote for them, quite frankly, in an election. I would say massive cuts.

You know what, we're not going to jam the brakes on the economic growth that we have in this province; we're going to continue moving forward. * (15:30) Again, I urge members opposite to either ge t on board or get out of the way of the major progress they're going to see in terms of construction, in terms of our infrastructure. You know, I urge them to reconsider. They've got a chance to move one more amendment, but it doesn't matter. You know, I'l l concede–you know what, I will concede tomorrow that no one has more credibility on cuts than Conservatives, because you elect them, that's what you get.

If you want to build this province, it's the NDP. Mr. Chairperson: Is the committee ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Chairperson: Shall the amended motion pass? Some Honourable Members: Yes. Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Chairperson: I heard a no. Voice Vote Mr. Chairperson: All those in favour of the motion, please say aye. Some Honourable Members: Aye. Mr. Chairperson: All those opposed to the motion, please say nay. Some Honourable Members: Nay. Mr. Chairperson: I think the Nays have it. Recorded Vote Mr. Goertzen: A recorded vote, Mr. Speaker. Mr.

Chairperson: A formal vote has been requested by the two members. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now recess to allow this matter to be reported and for members to proceed to the Chamber for the vote. The committee recessed at 3:31 p.m. ____________ The committee resumed at 4:05 p.m. Mr. Chairperson: Order. I would like to call the Committee of Supply back to order. This committee will resume with this business where we left off prior to the recess. We will n ow resume with the motion moved by the honourable member for Brandon West (Mr. Helwer). Is the committee ready for the question? Some Honourable Members: Question. Mr. Chairperson: Shall the motion pass?

Some Honourable Members: Agreed. Some Honourable Members: No. Mr. Chairperson: Agreed? I heard a minister–no. Voice Vote Mr. Chairperson: All those in favour of the motion, please say aye. Some Honourable Members: Aye. Mr. Chairperson: All those opposed to the motion, please say nay. Some Honourable Members: Nay. Mr. Chairperson: In my opinion, the Nays have it. * * * Mr. Chairperson: Now we will proceed to –for the question on the resolution.

Resolution 15.1: RESOLVED that there be granted to Her Majesty a sum not exceeding $9,624,000 for Infrastructure and Transportation, Administration and Finance, for the fiscal year ending March 31st, 2015. Resolution agreed to. This concludes the Estimates for the Department of Infrastructure and Transportation. We are–is it agreed that we will have a quick recess so that the department can get ready for the next department–next Estimates? [Agreed]

March 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1319 HOUSING AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT Mr. Chairperson (Mo hinder Saran): Order. Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now consider the Estimates of the Department of Housing and Community Development. Does the honourable minister have an opening statement? Hon. Peter Bjornson (Minister of Housing and Community Development): Yes, Mr. Chairperson, I do. I'll try to keep it brief, but I'm very pleased to present to this committee for consideration the 2014-15 expenditure Estimates of the Department of Housing and Community Development.

I look forward to engaging in a very constructive discussion regarding the direction that our govern- ment is going and what we have set out for the department in these Estimates. I'll go back to March 6th of 2014 when our government outlined its funding commitments for this fiscal year in the provincial budget.

And Budget 2014 represents a balanced plan to create good jobs and more opportunities for young people to build their futures in Manitoba while keeping life afforda ble and protecting front-line services families count on. * (16:10) And this is a budget that focuses on what matters most to Manitoba families through investing in priorities like infrastructure, education and training, and it will grow our economy and create good jobs.

This year's budget provides $79.1 million for the Department of Housing and Community Development, and we'll continue investing in a number of key areas during the 2014- 15 fiscal year. We will maintain our commitment to providing ac cess to quality affordable and suitable housing to support neighbourhoods that are socially and economically inclusive, and create healthy communities where Manitobans live, work and play. Housing investment enables neighbourhood revitalization, advances community development and improves our investor confidence in Manitoba.

The department has delivered on its 2009 commitment to deliver 1,500 units of affordable housing over five years. And, as of March 31st, 2014, we have committed to developing 1,508 new affordable housing units. We will develop 517 units of seniors housing and 991 units for families and singles. As of March 31st, 2014, we've also committed to providing 1,500 households with rent geared to income assistance.

Another feature of the bud get from 2013, we introduced the Rental Housing Construction Tax Credit as a financial incentive that is offered to private and non-profit housing developers to provide more rental housing in Manitoba communities. And over the next two years we'll continue to invest $100 million to restore and redevelop housing units in our portfolio, an additional $34 million dedicated annually to repair existing stock and provide quality home environments for tenants. And I have to say, Mr.

Chairperson, I had the opportunity to see this process first -hand when I toured northern Manitoba, and I'd like to put on the record some of the things that I had seen there. I had seen the refresh under way with a before, a during and an after. And I can tell you, these investments make an incredible difference for the people in those communities that I travelled to, to see the quality of housing that they can now call home. So in a couple of days I managed to go to Flin Flon, Moose Lake, Thompson, The Pas, Cranberry Portage and Wabowden.

So it was a very busy two days –also during the Canadian game against the Americans in the Olympics, but thank goodness we had satellite radio. I at least got to listen to it between Wabowden and Thompson. But it was great to be up there and see first-hand what these investments are doing and the impact that that has for people to enjoy a quality of life in a nice home environment. But I also got to go to Cranberry Portage, where we have for the first time two Manitoba Housing units that are being built by students.

The program started there, actually, to help build high- quality relocatables for the education program, or huts as they used to be known. But it has evolved, and they've poured the concrete for the foundations and they'll be having two ho mes moved onto these foundations for Manitoba Housing that were built by northern students. And talking to the young men and women working on these homes was really a wonderful experience.

They're so energized by being part of this and building the housing, and many of them want to continue to ply their trades in northern Manitoba and look at opportunities with Manitoba hydro development in the north to use the trades and the skills that they've learned from that program. So it's really important to put tha t on the record that we're not just talking about numbers in terms of how much money we invest, but the impact that it's

1320 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA March 24, 2014 having for young people for opportunities all over Manitoba. But we'll continue to enhance housing quality and accessibility by renovating and repairing existing social housing for current and future tenants by undertaking major capital improvements such as new flooring, paint, cupboards, lighting, fixtures and appliances in tenants' suites. We'll continue to alter the functionalit y of some social housing units to meet special housing needs of tenants such as seniors and large families.

We'll continue to promote energy efficiency, water conservation upgrades and green components in the capital investment in the renovation of social and affordable housing portfolio and maintaining the acceptable standard of living and create healthier environments for tenants. In November of 2013 we presented The Cooperative Housing Strategy Act to the Assembly, and that'll provide a statutory fram ework to support the co -op housing sector over the long term. We recognize that the participatory nature of housing co-ops helps to build individual and community capacity.

So we'll continue to support the co- op housing sector and assist the development of new housing co- ops to strengthen the housing environment and add to the housing choices available in our communities. And we'll continue to provide programming under Neighbourhoods Alive!, Co- operative Development Services and Community Places Program and support our communities in their sustainable neighbourhood revitalization efforts, co-operative development and recreational and social development opportunities.

And we'll move forward on our commitment to build healthy communities and improving t he social and economic well -being in Manitobans by continuing to support volunteer and non- profit organizations in their activities, engaging local community forces in restoration and repair of our properties, and I think examples like BUILD and BEEP speak volumes to that commitment and the work that they are doing, particularly with those who have had multiple barriers to employment, there are tremendous success stories here in Manitoba.

And a couple more comments before I conclude–since 2011 Housing and Community Development has been supporting a range of essential homelessness initiatives across the province, and in 2013 we initiated new support for HOUSINGFirst program to ensure individuals have access to affordable housing to end their experience with homelessness, and we'll continue to partner with agencies as this approach advances in Manitoba.

I recently toured the Bell Hotel and saw a very successful initiative that's been undertaken to address people with chronic challenges to shelter and to training and employability, and it's a tremendous success story and a great example of what happens when we do work together with the community. So I'd like to also express my appreciation to the Housing and Community Development staff for their ongoing work, their dedication and continuous improvement and commitment to the provision of high-quality service to Manitobans.

I look forward to the committee's review of the Department of Housing and Community Development's expenditure Estimates and welcome the comm ittee–or the comments from committee members. And I'd like to introduce my deputy minister and members of the department staff which you will be calling to the table after, I believe, the critic's comments. So I'm looking forward to that. Thank you. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the minister for those comments. Does the official opposition critic have any opening comments? Mrs.

Bonnie Mitchelson (River East): I will keep my comments very brief because I think I want to try to get into some detail in the dep artment. It was nice to receive the detailed Estimates about two hours ago, I guess, now. So it hasn't given me too much opportunity to really examine in detail, unfortunately, this year's budget Estimates, but I do certainly have enough questions, and I know that the Estimates will take more than just this afternoon, so it'll give me a chance tonight to review some of the detail.

I want to welcome the new minister to his new responsibilities, and I also am a new critic to the Housing portfolio, so it –and–Housing and Community Development, so I think for both of us this will be somewhat of a learning experience, and there'll be some detail that he'll probably have to seek the support of his staff to help answer the question. So, with those few comments, I want to move right into the Estimates process if I can, and I'd love to welcome and have the staff of the department

March 24, 2014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1321 introduced to the committee and we'll proceed from there. Thank you. Mr. Chairperson: We thank the critic from the official opposition for her remarks. Under Manitoba practice, debate on the minister's salary is the last item considered for a department in the Committee of Supply. Accordingly, we shall now defer consideration of line item 30.1.(

a) contained in the resolution 30.1. At this time we invite the minister's staff to join us at the table, and we ask that the minister introduce the staff in attendance. Mr. Bjornson: I'm very pleased today to be joined by my deputy minister, Je ff Parr, who's also wearing two hats today. He's the Manitoba Housing acting CEO as well. We have our chief operating officer, Mr. Steven Spry. We have Assistant Deputy Minister of Community Development and Strategic Initiatives Craig Marchinko, and we hav e Director of Financial Services Brian Brown, joining us at the table today. Mrs.

Mitchelson: I'm wondering if the minister could just point to the individuals and their names just, so I put a face and a name to everyone. I know your deputy, who is a neighbour of mine. Mr. Bjornson: Very good. I shall do so. Of course, we have Jeff Parr, Steven Spry, Craig Marchinko and Brian Brown. * (16:20) Mrs. Mitchelson: Mr. Chair, and I guess maybe I'll move right to the– Mr. Chairperson: Order, please. First, we have to go through a little procedure. Does the committee wish to proceed through the Estimates of the department chronologically or have a global discussion? Mrs.

Mitchelson: I'd prefer global, if that's okay with the minister and I'll try not to–you know, I think it's a small enough department that –and most of the departmental staff that have responsibility for different areas are here at the table. So, if we could go globally, that would be great. I'd appreciate it. Mr. Chairperson: Honourable Minister, agreed? Mr. Bjornson: Agreed. Global would be fine. Mr. Chairperson: It is agreed, then, the questions for the department will proceed in a global manner, with all the resolutions to be passed once questions have concluded. The floor is now open for questions. Mrs.

Mitchelson: Mr. Chair, I'm just looking at the organizational chart and noticing–I know the minister, when he introduced his deputy, indicated that the deputy head was wearing two hats; he was also the chief executive officer of Manitoba Housing and I know that long- term–or fairly long -term, Darrell Jones, who was the CEO, is no longer there and maybe the minister could indicate what's happened to Mr. Jones. Mr. Bjornson: Yes, Mr. Jones had been a long -time CEO and he has retired. But –not much older than myself.

I believe he's also seeking other opportunities–other career opportunities, after retiring from the public service. Mrs. Mitchelson: Thank you. And how–

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	40-3-34
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	40th 3rd hansardpdf 34.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	6949f103154b8f7d3cdfa4ae463909f3dbfeb2ca

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