Volume 4 PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-SIXTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 4th. Session VERBATIM REPORT TUESDAY, JUNE 24, 1975 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE M. JAMES RUSSELL Number 56

June 24, 1975 The Rouse met at 11:00 A.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPEAKEP.: Order, please! Tape 2585 (morning) It is a pleasure for me to welcome to the galleries today IB-1 a delegation from the town of Glovertown comprised of a councillor, Mr . Samuel Saunders, and the town manager, Mr. Avalon Sparks. On behalf of all honourable members I welcome you here and trust that your visit is most interesting. PRESENTING PETITIONS: _MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Forestry and Agriculture . HON. H. COLLINS (MINISTER OF FORESTRY AND AGRICULTURE): Mr.

Speaker, I beg to present a petition from some 160, 170 - 166 voters to be exact-from Cottrell 's Cove and Moore's Cove area in Notre Dame Bay which is the far end of Your Honour's district. We all know of course that Your Honour cannot present the petition in the House but I would like to go on record as announcing your wholehearted support, I am sure, for the prayer of the petition. That is that the road be paved this Summer from the beginning of Cottrell's Cove around the community to the end of the road in Moore's Cove in Notre Dame Bay. Mr.

Speaker, there is a considerable amount of work being done in that particular area. The road, I understand, from Botwood,which is the Northern extremity of my district of Gander, through to Point Leamington is being paved this Summer. I would hope, Sir, that the Minister of Transportation and Communications can see fit to do something for the people of Cottrell's Cove and Moore's Cove. As I said, I am sure you are solidly behind them. It gives me great pleasure in introducing the petition and referring it to the department to which it relates. MR. SPE.tu{ER: The honourable Member for Labrador North. MR.

WOODWARD: Mr. Speaker, we on this side of the House support the petition presented by the Minister of Agriculture and Forestf)'. We too feel, Sir, that it is unfortunate that the minister is not in his seat. But, if you are looking through the papers nowadays 7485

June 24, 1975 Tape 2585 (morning) IR-2 you see a considerable amount of tendering being called for different areas of the Province - very little, I might add, in Labrador - but different areas where there is a considerable amount of road work going on. We feel that the Minister of Transportation and Communications should take this petition seriously and see that something is done for the people in that part of the district. ORAL QUESTIONS: MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Member for Bell Island, MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I wonder if the president of the Treasury Board is in a position now to tell us what the loss of revenue is to the Province as a result of the liquor store employeei strike? MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Industrial Development. HON. W. DOODY (~INISTER OF INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT): I have to congratulate the honourable member on his tenacity, Sir. That is three days in a row. The loss runs I think to about $500,000 a month. At least, that has been the projection. It is very difficult to say whether it will be that much.

It is unlikely because of the beer sales and the catch-up when the strike finishes and the stores reopen. But, judging on last year's revenue, that is the amount that the Corporation figures, $500,000 a month, ''R. WOODW.A!!D: A month? MR. DOODY: A month . MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question, Sir, would I assume then that the Province in its penny-wise pound-foolish attitude has lost $1 million revenue so far, over $1 million? MR. DOODY: Mr. Speaker, the honourable member can assume what he wishes. It is his own mathematics. I have given him the answer to the question. mt. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Social Services and Rehabilitation. Sir, would the minf.ster inform the House what the government's policy is now on assisting workers who have either been locked out on strike or have refused to cross picket lines as a matter of principle? What is the government's stated policy on this particular matter now? 7486

Jun.e 24, 1975 Tape 2585 (morning) IR-3 MR, S1EAiaR: The honourable 'l>tinister of Social Services. BON, A. MURPIIY (MINISTER OF SOCIAL SERVICES): Mr. Speaker, our policy has not changed. The policy, the law is that anybody who leaves their work voluntarily will not receive usietance. That is our legal stand on it, Sir, MR. NEARY: A supple111entary question then, Sir, Can I assutae frOIII the minister's answer that fmnilies of those on strike or locked out or who refuse to cross picket line  in case of need will be assisted in accordance with the ep.irit of the Canada Assistance Plan? HO.ff. J.

CROSBIE: (MINI.STER OF FISHERIES) : Mr, Speaker, tha.t question is out of order. It draws an inference about 1487

I June 24, 1975 Tape 2586 (Morning) PK - 1 what the spirit of the Canada Assistance Plan is. MJJ THOMS: Answer the question. MR. ~ARY: Well, Mr. Speaker, would the minister give me a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer? Will the families of these people be assisted? MR. MURPHY: Yes or no - MR. NEARY: Yes, a simple 'yes' or 'no' answer. MR. MURPHY: depending on the status as covered under the law. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister of Provincial Affairs. Would the minister care to react to a statement made recently by Councillor Gullage that the minister is passing the buck on a new city dump?

What does the minister have to say about that? Has any decision been taken on that matter yet? MR. SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister of Provincial Affairs and The Environment. HON. W. G. DAWE (MINISTER OF PROVINCIAL AFFAIRS AND THE ENVIRONMENT): Mr. Speaker, the City Council of St. John's is well aware of our stand on this matter and that we are waiting for those people to either select a consulting firm to investigate an alternate site, which was suggested by the Hon. Minister of Health some time ago, who was then M.H.A. for St.

John's South,or either that to approach the Department of Municipal Affairs and Housing and sit down with these people to determine what is to happen with regard to the selection of a new sanitary landfill site or decide if they want to carry on with Robin Hood Bay in which event they would have to, of course, upgrade the area and undertake to manage it in a much better manner than they have been up to this point. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I wonder if the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, Sir, could tell the House whether or not a telegram or a phone call has gone out to the municipality of Wabana informing them that they will be granted an extension to their water and sewer lines this year? MR. SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. HON. A. B. PECKFORD (MINISTER OF MUNICIPAL AFFAIRS AND HOUSING): Not to fflY knowledge, Mr. Speaker. 7488

t I June 24, 1975 Tape 2586 (Morning) PK - 2 MR. NEARY: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker. Will there be a telegram or a phone call going out to the Town of Wabana? Will there bean extension of water and sewerage on Bell Island this year? MR. PECKFORD: Kr. Speaker, that is a good question. MR. NEARY: Well, Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. Could the minister give me a 'yea' or 'no' answer if approval will be granted for an extension to water and sewerage on Bell Island this year? MR. PECKFORD: No I cannot, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: A supplementary, Sir.

Would the minister tell us when he would be in a position to make a decision and to advice the council whether or not they are going to get financial assistance to extend badly needed and replace badly needed worn-out sewer lines on Bell Island? DOSCO water and MR. PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, that is another good question to which I cannot give a definitive answer. MR. SPEAKER: The Hon. Member for Bonavista North. MR. P. S. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

Could the minister inform this honourable House if the list that was publicized lately a to water and sewer projects in the Province,is this the final list for the year or will there be other projects approved as of this date or after this date? 7489

June 24, 1975. Tape 2S87 RH - 1 MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of ~unicipal Affairs and Housing. MR. PECKFORD: For all intents and purposes, Mr. Speaker, this is the final list for water and sewer projects for the Province this year. MR. THOMS: Another question for the minister. Could the minister explain to this honourable Rouse why there is a decrease in the building starts across the Province this year? Or housing starts? MR. !'ECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, there is not a decrease in building starts and there is not a decrease in housing starts.

As a matter of fact under the Rural Loans Programme administered by Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation there has been an increase in the amount of mortgages taken up to about 225 in the first two months of this year for which funds were available, namely, May and June.

With the federal budget wh_ich disasterously trys to deal with the housing situation in Canada,the $200 million that was announced last night will mean another 8,000 housing starts in the whole of Canada for 197S which is a terrible situation and one which I do not think the country can handle, one which the country cannot put up with, nor can the Province. MR. THOMS: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. Could the honourable A minister tell us if it is true or false that there is a decrease of sixteen per cent as of the end of May this year in housing starts in Newfoundland? MR. PECKFORD: That is news to me, Mr.

Speaker. I understood that we were still above last year's number for this period. MR. THOMS: The minister should catch up with the facts in this Pr0vince. Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Tourism. I wonder could the minister inform this House if he intends to extend the dates on the applications for moose and caribou licenses because many of the outlets for applications have ran out of licenses as of last week? MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Tourism. HON. T. HICKEY: I have no information on it, Mr. Speaker. It ha ~ not been brought to my attention 7490

t June 24, 1975. Tape 2587 RH - 2 but I certainly will look into it. I cannot inform the House that we intend to extend it. It has not come to my attention as yet. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Member for Bell Island. MR. NEARY: Could I get back, Sir, to the potato problem again in the Province and ask the Minister of Agriculture what the position is now on the surplus of potatoes in the warehouses of the Newfound­ land farmers? What is happening now concerning the provincial aubsidy or federal subsidy or the govermnent buying the potatoes? What is the policy now?

Mll, SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Forestry and Agriculture . HON. H. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, before we get to the policy, maybe we should look at the situation which applies. All of the potatoes in the Central Newfoundland area, Bishops Falls-Wooddale area,have been sold. The greater proportion of them were sold last Fall and early Winter. The great majority of the potatoes which were in storage in Musgravetown- Lethbridge area have been sold with the exception of a number of blue potatoes. All of the whites have been sold,practically.

In the area of Pasedena practically all have been sold, There are a great number of blue potatoes still in storage in the Robinson's area on the West Coast. Some of those potatoes are rapidly reaching a stage of deterioration whereby they might not be permitted to be sold. People just will not buy them. The exact figures, Mr. Speaker, I do not have with me but government is taking a look at the situation now. We do know that the federal people have changed their policy in terms of paying the federal subsidy.

It was only paid in the first place to people after they sold the potatoes,after they produced receipts where potatoes were sold, I understand that the federal subsidy is available now on all potatoes which are in storage and that the subsidy will be paid on potatoes which might have to be dumped. It could very well be some blue potatoes have to be dumped. With regard to'the possibility of a provincial subsidy, that is under consideration. 7491

June 24 , 1975. Tape 2587 MR. NEARY: A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker: Would the minister tell the House if the government announced policy. announced by the Premier that government institutions would purchase these potatoes that we.re in the hands of the Newfound­ land farmers, if that policy has been put into eff.ect? RR - 3 MR. SPEAKER: MR. COLLINS: The honourable M::l.nister of Forestry and Agriculture. Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding, and probably some of the ministers who have some jurisdiction CIJ11 confirm this, but 7492

"I June 24, 1975 Tape 2588 (morning) IB-1 it is my understanding that the institutions across Newfoundland are buying Newfoundland potatoes and have been for some time. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary question: Is the minister aware that already, I think probably over the weekend,since Friday, that 2,000 sacks of potatoes have been buried in Lethbridge, 2,000 sacks of potatoes and if these farmers will receive the subsidy? Will they be subsidized by the provincial government for their losses or do they just have to write this off as a dead loss? MR. COLLINS: Well, Mr.

Speaker, as I said in my few remarks earlier in answer to the first question, the federal subsidy is available to potatoes in the event they have to be dumped. That is a change of federal policy this past few days. The question of a provincial subsidy being made available is under consideration, and that is all I can say at this time. MR, NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a supplementary. Is the minister aware that while these potatoes are being dumped iri the Lethbridge area that potatoes are being sold locally in the stores imported from California, and if there is anything the provincial government can do about this? MR.

COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, there are no barriers at Port aux Basques or North Sydney on canned milk or potatoes or beef or anything else. It is a free market. Now, if there are vegetables coming in from California or Maine or New York, then of course .that falls in the area of jurisdiction of the federal government because we are dealing then with an inte-rnational border. We are conce-rned about the potatoe situation. I might say for the information of the House that the prices for potatoes have increased dramatically this past two or three weeks.

Prices are back up to $3.50, $3. 75,I understand.And there is every indication that if the potatoes can be held in storage that the farmers might get the prices which they want and possibly a better price than they did receive last fall. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Member for Labrador North. MR. WOODWARD: Mr. Spe&ker, I would like to ask a question of the 7493

June 24, 1975 Tape 2588 (morning) IB-2 Minister of Mines and Energy. In the light of the announcement, recent announcement with the American withdrawal and the reduction in personnel at Goose Ray come June of next year, June of 1976, I would like to ask the minister what is his policy on the development of the Gull Island site? What industry are they looking at? Do they have a plan? How many of the service industries that will be contracting on the site will be contained in the Goose Bay-Happy Valley area? I know he was working on this type of progranune.

And what imput will be into the area in terms of the number of jobs into the Goose Ray-Happy Valley area? "IF. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Mines and Energy. HON. L. RARRY (MINISTER OF MINES AND ENERGY) : Mr.

Speaker, there has been no change in government's policy nor is there any need for any change in government policy since government policy right from the beginning of the planning of the Cull Island project has been to the effect that the maximum in the way of jobs, the maximum in the way of service industry, the maximum economic benefit for the Goose Bay-Happy Valley area will be supplied, as much as is consistent with good, common sense and SOWld economics.

The question as to what services will be supplied from Goose Bay-Happy Valley as opposed to what will be supplied directly on site have not yet been finally determined or not yet, at least I have not yet received the information from the Corporation. The planning is actively underway now in this respect, and the policy of the government is that as much as possible as far as this is consistent with sound planning for the project, as much as possible the benefits should go to the Goose Bay-Happy Valley area. That is for the activity connected with the construction of the dam site itself.

So, there has been no need for any change in government policy. I expect to be in the Goose Bay-Happy Valley area either late this month or early in July. The time has not yet been set. Rut we have made a coDlllitment with the town council of Goose Bay-Happy Valley to meet with them to explain and to have people from Newfoundland Hydro there to explain just how they see this 7494

June 24, 1975 Tape 2S88 (morning) proj e ct proceening. There are problems, there are concerns, J know, on the part of the council ~for example, with respect to men employed on site . There are obviously gojng to have to be a certain number of men employed directly on the Cull tslann site because - what TJl.-3 do we have? Si.xty miles distance between Coose Ray-Happy Valley and the Gull Island Site? There will have to he some men empl oyen directly at the dam site itself.

Now, one of the concerns of the town is that you will see the famjlies of these men movinR up to the ~oose Bay-Happy Valle y at:ea to be clos et: to the hush ands, say. or ·the wife, whoever j s wotking in the area, and this wUl put a heavy hurden on the exi.stin p infr astructure of the town. Well, this is understandable ann we are 7495 .•

June 24, 1975 Tape No. 2589 NM - 1 sympathetic to the problems that may be caused there and this is one of the areas that we are trying to keep in mind in planning the project. But again as far as the closing down of the base is concerned, as far as I can see-I will be happy to receive any comment to the contrary from the honourable member-but as far as I can see there is no need for any change in government policy when the initial policy was to maximize the benefits for the Goose Bay - Happy Valley area. MR. WOODWARD: Supplementary, Mr.

Speaker; When the minister visits Goose Bay can he tell the House if that plan will be into effect then, will you be able to inform the people of what is going to take place and what sort of an imput the development is going to have on the area? At that time, will you have it as early as the end of this month or early July, so you can put people's minds at ease? MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Mines and Energy. MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, I am not able to say to the honourable member if we will have all the t's crossed and i's dotted at that time.

We will have information to supply to the town and we will continue to supply any new information as quickly as we receive it to the town so that the town can be kept fully abreast of developments as they occur or as they are about to occur, and to try and give the town as much forward notice as possible. You have to keep in mind, Mr.

Speaker, I suggest to the honourable member he should keep in mind also that we are proceeding with the utmost of speed in the planning of this project, to get this project underway because it is of such crucial importance to the province and this is putting pressure on the staff of Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro Corporation as far as the limited resources, limited personnel they have and they will do everything possible within their power.,I am sure)to keep the community informed. Now the collllllunity may complain that they do not have adequate notice. All I can say, Mr.

Speaker, is that we will give as much notice as possible, as much notice as humanly possible, but that the town must be aware of the fact that we are proceeding with some 7496

June 24, 1975 Tape No. 2589 NM - 2 haste, with careful planning but at the same time with the utmost of haste to get this project underway. MR. WOODWARD: But do not keep it secret. MR. BARRY: Mr. Speaker, this administration keeps nothing secret. MR. WOODWARD: Not likely, Mr. Speaker: I have a question for the Minister of Fisheries and Intergovernmental Affairs. As a result of the announcement and the bungling that went on, t.he handling of the announcement, the withdrawal of the Americans from the Goose Bay area, which came as no surprise, I might add, to the people of the area.

It may have surprised a few provincial ministers or a few federal minist2rs. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! The honourable Member for Labrador North is proceeding to make a speech. MR. WOODWARD: Mr. Speaker, the question I am asking of the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs is if he has now opened negotiations with Ottawa with respect to the economy of the Goose Bay area.

Are we looking, first are we looking at some step-up or an increase in the Canadian Forces role in Goose Bay to maintain the present status of the airport - we feel we have to have some presence of military if not the airport facilities will revert back to civil aviation which is quite a reduction down from the present status of the airport - and what other negotiations are going on between his government in Ottawa with regards to the Goose Bay - Happy Valley area? MR, SPEAKER: The honourable Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. MR.CROSBIE: Mr.

Speaker, there certainly will be negotiations with the Canadian Government and the only negotiations there have been so far are those that have been ongoing with the Goose Bay Task Force.

But there will be discussions with the Canadian Government now on the role of the Department of Transport who are now preparing to make a statement on what their position is going to be and we will certainly be urging that the Goose Bay base be more heavily utilized by Canadian military forces and that the Department of Transport continue their full role up there so that the base should maintain their present strength of personnel there. 7497

-I June 24, 1975 Tape No. 2589 NM - 3 So this will be done but at the moment, apart from what is being done by the Task Force, we have not had a chance yet. But these dis cussions will be going ahead with the Government of Canada. MR. WOODWARD: Mr. Speaker , a supplementary: Can the honourable Minister of IntergovernD1ental Affairs tell the House how they are going about planning to negotiate with Ottawa in this respect ? 7498

June 24, 1975 Tape 2590 (morning) Will we go the route of the project group or wi 11 they go another route? Will there be a more definite plan and more definite in the negotiations in the terms of reference? IB-1 MR. SPEAKER: MR. CROSBIE: The honourable Minister of Intergovemmental Affairs. Mr. Speaker, I believe it is our feeling that something more is needed than just the roose Ray task force, and that this will he conducted at a ministerial level. What kind of organization will be set up after that then we would have to see how it can be carried on satisfactorily.

But certainly more emphasis has to be given to it. And it will be,initially, we will meet with ministers of the Govemment of Canada who are involved and try to see how much more push and drive can be given to this and then whether there is a new organization required or a beefing of the Goose Bay task force, that will have to be decided. But, first we will try to have a ministerial meeting with Mr. Jamieson, the Minister of Transport,and those affected. MR. WOODWARD: A further supplementary, Mr. Speaker: Can the minister tell the House when, what is the time frame for the negotiations?

Will we be doing it within the next week or the next ten days or two weeks or will it go on into months before we reopen new negotiations? MR. CROSBIE: Yes, Mr. Speaker. We will be in touch with the responsible ministers of the r.overnment of Canada this week to arrange a meeting as soon as we can. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Memher for Rell Island. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Justice, Sir.

I would like to ask the Minister of Justice if he has received directly or indirectly representation from residents of Flowers Hill, Central and Clifford Streets, Sir, regarding increasing acts of vandalism and terrorizing behavior of what the people down there allege to be a gang of punks and they are completely frustrated and may form - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: - a vigilante - !-IR. SPEAKER: Order, please! 7499

.Tune 24, 1975 Tape 2590 (morning) MR. NEARY: - committee. MR. SPEAKF.R: Order, please! The honourable Member for Bell Island is making a speech. }f]l. NEARY: Would the minister care to - MR. HICKMAN: No, Mr. Speaker, I have not received it. ~- SPEAKER: Orders of the Day. m. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, if we still have - MR. SPEAKER: The honourable }lember for Bell Ts land. IB-2 MR. NEARY: If we still have a moment, Sir.

I wonder if the }11nister of Justice then could tell the House whether or not he has taken any action on a pet1tion,on the request from the Parents Committee of Conception Bay South to improve the safety precautions in th a t area A ecause of the number of accidents ~ dren that have been killed in that area? MR. SPEAl--"'ER: The hoPourable Minister of Justice. MR. HICKMAN: Mr. Speaker, we had a very excellent meeting with a group from Conception Bay South, the PTA,representatives of the PTA last week.

In atte.ndance were the honourable the Minister of Industrial Development, the honourable Minister of Provincial Affairs, and the honourable the Minister of Transportation and Communications and myself. During discussions there were many it.ems but all were in the field, I think, within the area of safety lnsofar as pedestrians on the highway a.re concerned in that area.. One of the re~uests they made was that I ask the R.C.M.P. to 1ncHcate whether increased patrols are necessary in that area, 1n that town. I have already made that request.

We have undertaken to meet some time in July, all the ministers inv~lved,with that committee and to furnish them a further progress report. In the meantime, there were certain matters raised in their submission which came within the jurisdiction of the school board and they in turn have undertal<.en to try and see the school board before they again meet with us. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the minister could tell the House if there was any mention of the Manuel& Bridge because 7500

June 24, 1975 Tape 2590 (morning) Ill-3 the people in the area feel that the curve, the bend in the bridge is just as dangerous? There has really been no improvement. Was there any mention of that? Did they tell you that the engineers who put it in might have had a crooked eye, that the bridge - MR, BARRY: I drove over it last night and I agree with you. MR. NEARY: Did the people mention this ninety degree angle on the bridge there in Manuela? MR. HICKMAN: No. In my recollection, Mr. Speaker, if they did, they did not direct that particular part of the submission to me.

I do not recall any mention of it being made. It may be in the brief but I am not certain. I know that they look forward to the building of the Arterial Road from Manuels Bridge out to St. John's Arterial Road. But, I do not specifically recall the Manuela Bridge being mentioned If any of the other honourable gentlemen who were there at the time can recall it, they can correct me. I do not recall that. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, does the minister know who designed that bridge and why it was designed in that way, that the angle seems to-be-the same as the old bridge? When will the old bridge be cut off?

Will people now have to go right down the center between the two bridges? MR. DOODY: The old br:I dge is gone long ago. MR. BARRY: No, it is still there. MR. NEARY: No, it is not, AN HONOURABLE MEMBER: It is. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh ! MR. WOODWARD: The old bridge :Is still there. MR. DOODY: No, there is a new one. The old one has been destroyed. 7501

t June 24, 1975 Tape 2591 (Morning) PK - l MR. BARRY: I drove by it last night. HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! l'fll. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, what I am really getting at - MR. HICKMAN: Mr. Speaker, I do not know who designed the bridge and I just, you know, it really does not come under my department, the designing of bridges,and I do not know the answers. The honourable gentlemen, the Minister of Industrial Development and the Minister of Provincial Affairs have assured this House that the old bridge has disappeared, it has been blown up. HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.

NEARY: Mr. Speaker, seeing the Minister of Industrial Development wants to say a few words I wonder if he could tell us what the possibility is now of settling the liquor store strike so these people can get back to work and we can start collecting some revenue again in the Province, badly needed revenue? MR. SPEAKER: The Hon. Minister of Industrial Development. MR. DOODY: Mr. Speaker, one of the things that the Treasury Board President is not expected to be is a bookie who is able to give odds or averages on the counting of ballots after employees have demonstrated their wishes in the matter.

I understand from the union officials that voting will be held tomorrow night at a meeting where the final ballots will be counted,and added to those that already have been counted, at that time I assume we will be in a better position to tell the honourable member when he can get his supply of wine. Until then he will have to be as patient as the rest of us. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, a supplementary~ Is the minister aware or does the minister know who in the government or in the Newfoundland Liquor Commission made the statement on television the other night that immaterial of what the outcome of the vote will be the liquor stores would be open anyway? Does the minister know or is he aware of that statement? 7502

---.\--- June 24, 1975 Tape 2591 (Morning) PK - 2 MR. DOODY: Mr. Speaker, I was contacted by the ~ress, by many of the members of the media over the weekend asking me much the same question. They all had about the same amount of information that the honourable member has, that it has been alleged that somebody , unknown, in some capacity or other, also unknown, made a statement, possibly,that the liquor stores might,probably~not open if the strike, possibly.does not get finished when 1t,probably,should be finished.

And I told the press what I will have to tell the honourable House here that in all prohability I cannot answer such a question because there was no substance in it. · ORDERS OF THE DAY ~- SPEAKER: I think the Hon. Member for Harbour Grace adjourned the debate on the report last day. (Motion 1). MR . HI CKMAN: He did, MR. SPEAKER: The Hon. Member for Harbour Grace, MR. H. YOUNG: Mr. Speaker, as a member of that Conanittee on the Inshore Fishery I would like to support the recommendations contained in this report.

I would like to also express or echo the words of the Member from Bonavista South and say that I trust that this report will not end here. Sir, first I would like to congratulate our chairman of that Committee for the splendid job he did, and also Mr. Dopplinger who is the Director of Planning and Review of the Department of Fisheries and Mrs. Hiscock and the others in fact who travelled around.

Sir, as we travelled around the Province and saw the fishermen appear before this Committee, who were sincere and expressed their concern over the fate and the future of the inshore fishery, and in fact, Sir, the future of Newfoundland without an inshore fishery. Probably, Sir, some of these problems stem back to the terms of our union with - terms of union when we joined Confederation, and it states there very clearly, Sir, that in no way has the Province of Newfoundland got any control over our inshore fisheries.

I would like to say that I read with interest the recent speech to the Trades College given by our Minister of Fisheries and some of 7503

J une 2li, 1975 Tape 2591 (Morning) PK - 3 his remarks coi~ide with the recommendations contained in this report. And I trust, Sir, that he will see that some of them are implemented. We should remember, Sir, that just about everything is contained in this report. The materials contained in it are - they are the views and concerns of our fishermen. The major complaints,Sir, as we went around the Province were the lack of fish, the Unemployment Insurance, the high cost of gear, the gill nets, the lack of facilities and the Fisheries Loan Board, and last, by no means least, the cost of fish or the price of fish.

Sir, the lack of fish or the supply of fish, and the foreign draggers can only be probably eliminated or remedied if we do get the 200 mile limit. Our rec011DDendations there, Sir, in this report also suggested there is the possibility that if we cannot get the 200 mile limit, then the 50 mile one. The high cost of gear, Sir, was of much concern and many of the fishermen termed it as a rip-off by the suppliers of this gear.

Especially, Sir, since we have a replacement programme there and I have been told by some of the fishermen, Sir, at that time that the government are being charged $5.00 a pound for twine. 7504

June 24, 1975. Tape 2592 RH - l Today that twine, same twine can be bought for less than three dollars. He also has been informed by the fishermen, Sir, that salmon netting which cost over $200 to be replaced when the Replacement Programme was in being today is to be bought for $120 or $240. These are some of the things, Sir, that probably we should be investigating and see what can be done concerning the high cost of gear and probably some of these rip-offs. Sir, the matter of gill nets was a touchy subject both by the fishermen and members of the Connnittee.

I must say, Sir, here that much credit should go to the Member for Fogo for his concern and his wisdom and his knowledge of the fisheries brought in at these recommendations concerning the gill nets. Sir, after much discussion our recommendations on the gill nets were unanimously recommended. Sir, a lack of facilities was another major problem of our fishermen. I feel sure, Sir, that our recommendations there are helpful .especially concerning marine complex service centres especially on some parts of the Coast of Labrador. The Loan Board, Sir, came in for a lot of criticism by the fishermen.

As stated by the Member for Bonavista South, Sir, our recommendations I am sure with no cost to no one could eliminate some of these problems. I know, Sir, of the fisherman who went to purchase a boat from the Trades College. He tendered on the boat, Sir, and that boat was sold for one dollar more to the instructor at that College. Today, Sir - yesterday I was talking to the same man and as far as the Loan Board is concerned that man actually bought the boat - and in no way, he bought a second hand boat.

These boats, Sir, are also sold to merchants who in ' some cases repair them and sell them for three times more than what they paid for them. Sir, the price of fish, Sir, must be discussed. Our fishermen, Sir, seem to be still back like they were years ago and are dependent on fish merchants. I think, Sir, something must be done where these fishermen can be independent from the fish merchant and not dependent upon him. There was a case there, Sir, I rP.ad in the paper in one 7505

.hme 24, 197 . Tape 2592 RH - 2 of the editorials there recently where a fisherman · ,spoke out against the fish merchant and he had to apologize openly. Re was more or less black-Usted by that company and they would not take fish from htlrt. I trust, Sir, that all members of the House of Assembly will support this report and all those recomillendations will be implemented otnd not this report just stowed away something like our famUy bibll.l to gather dust. Another thing, Sir, we found was that our quality of fish on the market was not of a stan,dard to COl!lt>ete wtth the other 7506

June 24, 1975 Tape 2593 (morning) IB-1 fish producing countries. I would like to say, Sir, that I think we should have a much greater budget for our fishermen and I trust that in out next budget that this will be brought about and the fishermen will get more. We will put more in to the fishing ind us try of Newfoundland whereby our fishermen - we must remember, Sir, that the fishery employs, there are about 14,000 to 15,000 people employed more or less directly with the inshore fishery.

I am sure, Sir, that something more must be done for them, Sir, I trust and I strongly recommend that recommendations contained in this report will be discussed fully in this Rouse of Assembly, and that we will reap some henefits and like they usen to say, Sir, the fishermen would say, that the fisheries are studied to death, and I hope this report will be implemented and carried out. I thank you, Sir. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Member for llell Island. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I followed what the honourable the Member for Harbour Grace had to say in connection with this report very closely, Sir.

The member was a member of the Select Committee of the House to study the inshore fishery. Probably, Sir, the most important statement that the member made was that he hoped that this report would not just join all the other reports that had been done in this Province on the inshore fishery and on various other matters and be put on the shelf somewhere in Confederation Building to gather up dust. I am afraid, Sir, I am afraid myself that that is what is about to happen.

Sir, the administration at the moment, the government, told us when the House rose back in May, when the House adjourned in May that the House would open again sometime around the first week in June, I think the date of the 5th of June was mentioned, that the House would open primarily to deal with the report of the Select Committee on the Inshore Fishery. Now, we find, Mr. Speaker, after being in the House for almost two weeks that we have dealt with just about every other matter under the sun including setting up a Legal Aid Plan and a Funeral Di rectors Assod ation. We have 7507

June 24 , 1975 Tape 25q3 (moniing) passed l aws on just a hout everyt hing, Sir, except - MR. R()I,!£: Amendments to the rlo~ a ct. IR-2 MR. NEARY: Amendments to the dog act ; I am reminded by my colleague here. t;Je have discuss ed just abour evt-ryt hing under the sun except the report of the Se lect Committee on the Inshore Fishery. l<'e should hang our heads in shame, Mr. Speaker. Now, we find that the governm ent Rouse Lead er and members of the administration cannot wait to get the Rous e closed down.

The fine weather is here and they want t o g et out again p robably to travel to exotic and various parts of tbe wor ld,but they cannot wait now, Sir, and you can feel it when you walk into the Bouse, that they cannot wait to get the Rouse closed without adequa tel y dealing with the recommendations in this report. They want to get out of here. They are like an honourable crowd, Sir, that are shellshocked. They cannot wait. Thev say, "Oh, l et us close her down today, tomorrow. Let us not have another Private 1'1ember's Day .'' Mr. Speaker, what have we accomplished as far as this report is concerned?

All we have had so far , Sir, all we have been forced to lis ten to is phony oratory. There is no indication, none whatsoever, that the recommE"ndations of this report are going to be dealt with. 7508

June 24, 1975 Tape No. 2594 NM - 1 Mr. Speaker, so far.,and I regret, Sir, that I was not here for the full debate, I was down on the South Coast for four days last week and I heard the reaction, I heard the reaction of fishermen in the various South Coast connnunities that I went to on this report and they tell me that they are fed up with being studied and they tell me~ I am not an expert on the fisheries, Sir 0 I can only repeat what I have been told throughout this province right from St.

John's to Port aux Basques - they tell me that all the Select Connnittee did,with due respect, was to summarize what the fishermen and the people of this province ~iready knew about the problems in the inshore fishery. It was a sunnnary of all the problems that we have studied, talked about so much that the fishermen have been pointing out for years and years and years and the committee did a good job of summarizing the problems of the inshore fishery. But, Mr. Speaker, even though I have no doubt but that the committee might have been sincere and conscientious,that there was no imagination put into that report.

MR, EVANS: It did not say, burn your boats. MR. NEAFY: There was nobody in this province ever said, ever · made that statement, Sir, The former Premier of this province may be blamed for it but he never made any such statement and the member for Burgeo would ~o well to go down and visit his constituents and hear what they have to say about this report and hear their views on the fishery. They have not seen the member since he got elected back in 1972. MR. EVANS: MR. NEARY: MR. EVANS: MR. NEARY: That is another Liberal lie. That is not a Liberal lie, Sir. Nothing else surer.

I attended, Sir, a Lions Club banquet in the fishing commuuity of Ilurgeo and the clergyman there when he was giving grace asked the gathering to say a prayer for those who have departed this world,and I said a prayer for the member for Burgeo. MR. EVANS: You got religion all of a sudden. 7509

June 24, 1975 Tape No. 2594 NM - 2 MR. NEARY: Because they have not seen him since the last election. MR. EVANS: You were supposed to be in the House last week. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the whole South Coast, the whole Northeast Coast MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: - the Great Northern Peninsula, Bonavista Bay, Conception Bay, Trinity Bay, have been watching - MR. DOODY: MR. NEARY: MR. DOODY: MR. NEARY: MR. MURPHY: MR. EVANS: MR. SPEAKER: Why do you not spend a little time in the House boy. - have been watching - Instead of politicking around the Province. have been watching, Sir, very, very carefully.

One Opposition member in the House the other night. You were supposed to be in the House last week. Order, please! - have been watching very carefully, Sir, the government's attitude,and the House's attitude for that matter, in connection with this report. Because believe me, Mr. Speaker, when I make this statement I am not exaggerating one bit, that the fishermen of this province, MR.

NEARY: the inshore fishermen are fed up with elected re~resentatives spouting off about the problems of the inshore fishery and they are especially peeved and perturbed with the government for not doing something about it over the last three years after leaving the fishermen with the impression in this province that if they were elected that they would do something Qbout it. And after three years the only thing they could up with was the appointment of a Select Committee to study the problems of the inshore fishery, after wearing out three or four or five ministers, four I think it is. Mr.

Speaker, all that committee could do was to summarize the problems and not produce one new original idea, not produce one problem that we did not already know about. The 200 mile limit, anything new in that? Is there anything new in that? The administration has not been able to persuade the Government 7510

June 24, 1975 Tape. 2595 (morning) rn-1 of Canada 7 they have failed to persuade Ottawa that the Government of Canada should take unilateral action and inforce the 200 mile limit. Unless, Sir, and until the Province and the Government of Canada get their heads together and take measures,whether they be drastic measures or not,to protect the fish stocks on the Atlantic Coast of Canada, Sir, then I will forecast that ninety per cent of our inshore fishermen will be forced on welfare this time next year, MR. EVANS: What has the 200 mile limit got to do with the inshore fishery ? Roth1ng! MR. NEARY: Oh, Mr.

Speaker, here is a member who represents a fishing area of this Province who wants to know from me from a mining community what the 200 mile limit got to do with the inshore fishery. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: Well, it has all to do with it, Sir. The inshore fishermen will tell you that the fish are being scooped up hefore they get e chance to go to shore. That is what it has to do with it. MR. EVANS: It has nothing to do with it! _MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, it is a matter of life and death to our inshore fishermen, that,first of all, Sir, the Canadian C,0vernment declared a 200 mile limit and then, Mr. Speaker, it will be a hollow victory indeed if we get the 200 mile limit and then the government does not fulfill its promise that it made in two provincial elections in this Province, to build a big trawler fleet. We have not heard anything about that great trawler fleet that was supposed to be built at Marystown. We have not heard anything about that for the last eighteen and a half months to two years.

It will be a hollow victory indeed, Sir, and the fishermen will tell you this, unless the administration carrys out its pre-election promises to the fishermen of this Province by increasing the number of trawlers so that at least we will be able to catch our quota of fish. ~r. Speaker, do you realize that today Newfoundland is not 7511

June 24, 1975 Tape 2595 (morning) IB-2 catching its quota despite the fact that we are saying that the foreign draggers and the trawlers And the factory ships are scooping up the fish and depleting our stocks, that Newfoundland fishermen, Newfoundland fish plants,rlo not have the equipment, the facilities to catch their quota today. What are we going to do if we get the 200 mile limit without putting the gear and the equipment and the facilities in the hands of our fishermen so that at least we could catch our quota. ~r.

Speaker, if we had used our heads and a little common sense and our imagination down th rough the years, maybe the Russians and the East Germans and the Spanish and the Portuguese and the French might not be out off our coast scooping up our fish. If we had to put the draggers out there and the trawlers, they would not dare come there because we would have cornered the fir.hery. We let it go by default to the Russians and the Spaniards and the Portuguese.

That is why they are out there, Sir, because they know that it is the best source of supply in the world 0 And we let it go to them hy default, piddling around with fish merchants in this Province who spend all their time trying to build up millions of dollars and becoming multimillionaires and going down to Florida and building their estates and building up their fortunes out of the sweat of the fishermen of this Province, and then pawning off their obsolete fish plants to foreign investors ,md then the government having to buy them beck.

They take their couple cr. million dollars or $3 million or $4 million, whatever they get for these plants and then they desert the fishermen. How many times have we seen that happen in this Province, Sir? !ff! . PECKFORD: Row many? _MR. NEARY: Yes, all I have to rlo is look across the House and I can tell the minister how many times. SOME HONOURARLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: It happened a good many times. Yes, Sir, I could tell you only I do not want to bring personalities 1 7512

June 24, 1975. Tape 2596 RH - 1 or get personal. All I have to do is look across the House and I can see with my own eyes members who sit on the government benches who are in that category who built , amassed their fortune from the sweat of the fishermen and then sold out and deserted the fishermen, did not put their money back in. MR. MORGAN: On the backbench side? MR. NEARY: On the government benches, Sir, not too far from where the Member for Bonavista South sits, not too far from where the member sits. They built up their fortune, Sir. MR. MORGAN: What are you talking about? MR. SPEAKER: Order, please: MR.

NEARY: They built up their fortune from the toil and the sweat of the fishermen. Then they sold out and deserted the fishermen. Now, all of a sudden they become concerned. They are experts on the fishery of this Province. They had it handed down to them from one generation to the other. That, Sir, is the way the inshore fishermen look at their fishery in Newfoundland.

They look at it as just a big racket for a handful of well-heeled fish merchants to take them to the cleaners, go to government when they are in trouble, when they need a handout, when they are in the red,go to government looking for a handout.And when they are in the black take it and put it over in a Swiss bank account somewhere, build an estate in Florida, invest it down in Boston and desert the fishermen, leave the poor old fisher­ men holding the bag, not when they get into black, they do not pass it on to the fishermen.

When they are in the red, go to the taxpayers, go to the government and they will bail you out. When you are in the black, when you are making a bundle, do not pass it back to the government, do not pay your loans back or even the interest on your loan, Do not pass it on to the fishermen, invest it in stocks and bonds and to hell with the fishermen of this Province! That is what has been happening, Sir. That is why the poor, old inshore fisherman is discouraged, disillusioned, disenchanted, downhearted, downcast and browned off with his elected representative,and on both 7513

June 24, 1975. Tape 2596 RH - 2 sidesof the House, browned off, Sir! They have had enough. They are fed up. no you know what concerns me, Mr. Speaker? They say to their sons -they tell me every place practically that I go in Newfoundland, down in Bonavista, down the South Coast, down the Burin Peninsula, Trinity Bay, they say, "My son will never follow in my footsteps. He will never be a fisherman. He will not have to kowtow to the likes of Spencer lake. He will never follow in my footsteps. lie will not be a fisherman.

I will put him in the Vocational School or in the University and I will get a job for him in St. John's or in Grand Falls or in Corner Brook or in Gander or in Labrador City. If I have anything to do with it he will never be a fisherman." That is what they tell you. Mr.

Speaker, we have good reason to be concerned about that because here we are, Sir, advocating a two hundred mile limit, asking Canada, the Government of Canada almost to declare war to get us the two hundred mile limit, Anc." if we do,where are we going to get the young men to man the trawlers and to go out and catch the fish if we are going to educate them for jobs in St. John's and Gander and Grand Falls and Corner Brook? MR. EVANS: MR. NF.ARY: Do you want us to cll'se the schools, or what? No, Sir, but we have to take another look at our educational system if that is what we are going to do,because, Mr.

Speaker, I contend today that in Newfoundland that if we use our heads and our imagination with one-half of the world starving to death, all we have to do is use our heads, Sir, and we can find the markets can we not. We do not have to wait for the traditional buyers to beat a path to Newfoundland to sell our fish. One-half of the world is starving to death and we got the likes of the fish merchants with the nerve and the cheek to tell us that their warehouses are blocked with fish and they have to get subsidies from the Government of Canada to the tune of fifteen and a half cents 7514

June 24, 1975. Tape 25% RH - 3 a pound on fillets. Do you realize, Mr. Speaker, the Government of Ca.nada - MR . CROSB~E: Nonsense! MR. NEARY: That is right, Sir. MR . CROSBIE: Two and a half cents. HR. NEARY: Sir, I will tell the minister what it is. It is two and a half cents to the fishermen. It is tlo.'O and a half cent s to the fish plant operator. But, Sir, that is five cents but you have to multiply it by three 7515

June 24, 1975 Tape 2597 .Morning) PK - 1 because it takes three fish to mal·e a fillet, a pound of fillet, three to one. MR. THOMS: Three pound of fish and one pound of fillet. MR:,._NEARY:_ Three pound of fish, one pound of fillet. MR. THOMS: Right. MR. NEARY: Three to one. And the total subsidy, Sir, amounts to fifteen cents. MR. THOMS: Per pound. MR. NF.ARY: Per pound. That is right. The minister can screw up his nose all he likes. MR. EVANS: That is wrong. MR. NEARY: That is right, Sir. MR. EVANS: That is wrong. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, but for the subsidy that is being paid to our fishermen and to the fish plant operators at this moment the fishing industry in Newfoundland would collapse right now. They are brazen enough to pounce on the Government of Canada every chance thev get. MR. MOORES: MR. EVANS: MR. NF.ARY: We would not do that. We should eat more fish. Mr.

Speaker, what we need is not phony oratory, sweet- talk, everybody who represents a fishing community up making his little speech, hoping to get a little mileage when he goes back that it will be picked up by the television and the newspapers and the radio and he will get a little mileage, and he will go back and say,I spoke about the fishery problems while I was in the House. Spoke about it once in three years!

When we should be here night and day instead of wanting to get out of this House as fast as we can to go off to foreign countries and travel around at public expense and go on vacation, we should stay here until we resolve the problems of the fishery. We do not need part-time politicians, Sir. We do not need lawyers downtown in court -when they should be in this House carrying out their obligations 7516

June 24, 1975 Tape 2597 (Morning) PK - 2 and their responsibilities and their promises to the people of this Province. HR. EVANS: He was trying to get into the meal plant in Burgeo. They would not take him for meal. MR. NEARY: They should be here, Sir, this is no time .for this Province to have part-time leaders, part-time politicians. "fR. BARRY: ~!R. NEARY: Where were you when the House discussed the Javelin Bill? I am prepared to stay here - well I would have liked to be here on that Javelin Bill and the minister would have gotten an earful. MR. BARRY: So do I. You should know all about it'. MR.

NEARY: The minister would have gotten an earful, Sir. Mr. Speaker, lJe should be prepared now at this moment because, Sir, by this time next year it may be too late. We have to be prepared to stay here now night and day, forget the vacation, forget the holidays, forget travelling to Japan, France, New York, and San Francisco - HR. MORGAN : And Ottawa. !'ffi. NEfRY: - and the delights of Paris and the bistros of Spain and Rome, forget it, stay in the House. Stay in this House, Sir, - AN HON. ME~IBER: Hear! near! MR. NEARY: - where we should be.

If there were ever a group of people in this Province, Sir, that we owe a great responsibility to is the fishermen of this Province. And I would lay down my life in this honourable House, Sir, I would stay here night and day not just to talk about the problems, Mr. Speaker, I would stay here to deal with the recommendations of the Co111nittee.

Sir, there is the weakness we have here, we are here glorifying the Committee, You know, in talking about the Co111Dittee, Sir, with all due respect, there was not a fisherman on it, not a fisherman - there may be the sons of a few, I do not know if my friend from Port de Grave may have a little experience, but no longer he deserted the fishery long ago, He found greener pastures. He is about the only one. MR • . WILSON: They were not too green when I was there. :'!_R. NF.ARY: Well, the member found greener pastures. '-W .. WILSON: Why do you not go up and see. MR.

NEARY: Not one, Sir, with all due respect to the 7517

June 24 , l9 75 Tape 2597 (Mornini) PK - 3 honourable members,no .t one is a full-tillle fisherman. f'IR. MORGAN: Not now. No, Nor, Mr. Speaker; I would doubt if any of them were ever full-time fisher .men apart from the Member for Port de Grave, I might - and he probably, Sir, had less input in this Committee than any other of the members, Mr.

Speaker, here we are now in the middle of June, in the hei~ht of the fb·hing season, in th.e House praising up the Committee saying, "Oh they did a wonderful job, a magnificent job." And as I say Sir, they may have been sincere and conscientious, but they merely summarized the problems of thl! fishery in this Province. They showed no imagination, did not sa:,- Mr. Speaker, the Chairman of that Committee is ln his seat today. He should stand up man-fashion and say to this House, "Look!

IfY0\1 members, elected representatives of the people bad any courage, any guts at all you would stay in this House until that; problem is solved,and if necessary, move the whole House of Assembly ,, up to Ottawa. MR, MORGAN: N~ you are talking 'Steve' • MR, NEAltY: Take 7518

June 24, 1975 Tape 2598 (morning) [[l-1 the whole works,as the editorial in The Daily News said this morn:fng, suggested. MR. MORGAN: We will all march on Ottawa! MR. NEARY: Yes, let us all go up. I am satisfied to go along wjth that. B'ut, Sir, that is only solving part of the problem. The other seventy per cent of the problem has to be solved in this Province by us if we have the courage and the imagination and the stamina and the w:111 power to do it. If we are not just prepared to come fn here with a few platitudes, a little b:lt of praise for the committee, no action.

This :Is what concerns me, Sir, lack of action on the r;irt of the House to deal with the recommendations of this committee. }'r. Speaker, I was terribly disappointed that the report did not call for a complete provincial takeover of the f:fshery in this Province, said - 'MR. YOUNr.: '-IR. NEARY: They difl! Oh, they did not, Sir. They certainly d:fd not. The Ninister of Fisheries says you had better not :Interrupt. Well, Sir, the minister will be brought to his feet before I am finished. The minister will get up and say, oh, you are talking about nationalization. That is a dirty word. I am not, Sir.

It is not a socialist philosophy that I am expounding here. MR. r.ROSBIE: Your prize philosophy! MR. NEARY: I thought the minister was not going to interrupt me. Mr. Speaker, what I Rm asking for and what the committee did not deal with was complete provincial takeover by our Crown Corporation. Mr. Speaker, we are pumping the money into the fishery anyway. Ottawa is pumping it in right, left and center. All we are doing, Sir, - do you know, Mr.

Speaker, that every year despite what the Minister of Fisheries says, every year Ottawa spends more money on the fishery i.n this Province than the provincial government does'?' MR. BARRY: MR. THOMS: Have you ever considered offering your services - Five times as much. MR. NEARY: Five t:lmes,as much my colleaisue says. I do not know, hut I would say three times or more, three times or more, Sir. 7519

June 24, 1q75 Tape 259R (morning) JR-2 ''r. Speaker, we have se1>n, ~re h,we seen the success, Sir, of the Canad1an Saltf1sh Corporat1on, a P,ood T.iberal concept, a Liberal philosophy. ~~- rROSIHE: What a laugh. MR. NEARY: Ah, what a laugh! Sir, right here, here is the laugh~ Look! The Fishermen's Annual,1975 and there he is from Circular Road, the honourable John, "Two men bound together in a common desire, to no something for the fishermen, the Fishermen's Annual, 1975. What ~oes it say 1nside there and the minister says, what a laugh. Just listen inside here - ~- r.ROSJIIE: Romeo and Jul1et. Mll. NF.ARY: Yes.

Frankie and Johnny. Saltfish Industry on sound footing. The minister endorses that and now he says, "What a laugh!" You know, does the minister know why it is on a sound footing? MR. BARRY: He did not say that. ~<R. NEARY: Yes. It says, Saltfish Industry on a sound footing, and the minister has his picture on the front page of this supplement, 1, saying what. a glorious thing it is. ~r. r.rosbie's strong hand at the helm, a new direction has come about. He laughs at the - w~ have a strong hand at the helm all right. Both men have stirred considerable respect in the industry.

The minister should travel around this ProvincP. ~R. MORGAN: To a point of order, Sir. _MR . SPF.MFR: Order, please! l"R. MORGAN: To a point of order. We are not debating the FisheI'l'len's Annual lleport as published in one of the local daily papers. We are debating the report of the Select r.ommittee of the House of Assembly on the Inshore Fishery, and I ask that the honourable ~ember for Bell Island be relevant to the debate. MF.. SPEAKER: Order, pleas!,!!

The honourable Yember for Bell Island,the Chair feels is perhaps getting carried away in the heat of debate and has strayed somewhat although the Chair has allowed a fair range,it feels~in the debate in this particular motion. But the honourable Member for 7520

June 24, 1975 Tape 259R (morning ) I B-3 Bell Island was straying far afielri f r om the intent of this particula r motion. MR. NEARY: Hr. Spea~er, I will try to be relevant, Sir, r.o the Tepor t o f the <'ommittee by get ting bnck to my mdn point, St r, the main point that l want - and I hope this wi.ll not get lost in the shuffle i n all t he ot her thing s that t am mentioning - that is, Sir, that the fishermen of t his Province are gojng to be awfully disappointed if this House i s closed down wi t hout one, without one reconmendation of that Committee h ein p; bro ught befo r e t his House for approval, wi thout one measu re bei ng implemented to try and h ring about the 7521

June 24, 1975 Tape No. 2599 NH - 1 survival of that fishery. They brought in their recommendations, the minister says. Yes, Mr. Speaker, we have had all these before. There is nothing new in there and that report will be brought down on the Crosbie Building or the Viking Building over on Crosbie Road and put on the shelf _, or wherever the Department of Fisheries may be, I think it is over on Crosbie Road, be put over there on the shelf. She must be lopsided over there. The building must be ready to sink down in the ground with the reports on the fishery, studies on the fishery. MR.

CROSBIE : Ignored up until 1972. MR. NEARY: Ignored up until 1972! Half the reports that are there came under the former administration: MR. CROSBIE: They were ignored! They were stillborn! MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, one thing ue have to say, one thing we have to say is that old Joey built every fish plant we have in Newfoundland today. MR. CROSBIE: Burn your boats'. MR. NEARY: No, Sir, he did not say burn your boats and the minister knows that is not true. MR. CROSBIE: Fire your boats. MR. NEARY: Re did not say fire your boats either, Sir. Mr.

Speaker, whatever remnants of the fishery we have in Newfoundland today is due to Joey Smallwood and the former Liberal Administration. MR. CROSBIE: Do not be a joke. MR. NEARY: That is not a joke. Where are the new fish plants built by our Tory Administration? The one down in Burgeo 1 an obsolete plant valued at $500,000, they paid $2.6 million for it and they have been monkeying around now for three years trying to persuade the Government of Canada and themselves, trying to get their heads together to build a new one. The old one down there cannot last much longer.

Then we will have poverty, welfare, unemployment along the South Coast. And the Minister of Industrial Development,every time I ask him about that fish plant in Burgeo,pawns it off on Don Jamieson. I call up Mr. Jamieson's office,he pawns it back to the ministe~ And the people 7522

JW1e 24, 1975 Tape No. 2599 NM - 2 are caught in the middle in the squeeze getting the, they are getting the political runaround. MR. DOODY: Did you get through to Mr. Jamieson? MR. NEARY: I got through to some of his assistants. And I can tell the honourable minister that the people of Burgeo are getting fed up with getting the nmaround. They have not started one -fish plant, Sir, not one.

As a matter of fact the Minister of Fisheries kowtowing now to his big fish merchant buddies are going to try to eliminate all the small fish plants in Newfoundland, something that they were trying to get us to do for year by tightening up on the licencing. MR. DOODY: Mr. Jamieson says you are like the bubonic plague. MR. NEARY: Yes, well Mr. Jamieson can think what he likes about me . But at least I have found a place in the hearts of the ordinary people of this Province and that is more than I can say about the Minister of Fisheries. MR.

MURPHY: It must be the seven votes he got at the leadership convention went to his head. MR.NEARY: Mr. Speaker, what we need to do, Sir, is to get rid of the middleman role and set up a Crown Corporation to organize the fishermen at the production level, both offshore and inshore, Mr. Speaker, and as I say right now, Sir, the Liberal Government up there in Ottawa is subsidizing every pound of fillet going out of this province to the tune of fifteen and a half cents. MR. BARRY: So they should. MR. NEARY: Yes, Sir, I am glad the minister is giving them due credit. MR. BARRY: I have to give them credit. MR.

NEARY: Mr. Speaker, take this away and the fishery would collapse in this province. Would Your Honour tell me how much more time I have left, Sir? MR. SPEAKER: About sixteen or seventeen minutes. MR. NEARY: Thank you, Your Honour. MR. EVANS: Keep her going. MR. NEARY~ Mr. Speaker, I remember a former colleague of mine who is late,deceased , made the famous statement, Sir, down in the old 7 523

June 24, 1975 Tape No. 2599 NM - 3 Colonial Building dudng the National Convention when he referred to the last lonely fisherman on the bill of Cape St. George. Well, Sir, there will he no last lonely fisherman, there will be no fishenun unless we are prepared to take off our coats and roll up our sleeves and get down to bras.a tacks and take specific action on some of these recommend .ationa that were summarized in the I'eport of the Select Committee on the Inshore Fishery, Sure, Mr.

Speaker, this report has again brought t.o the fore, brought before the people of Newfoundland the problems of the inshore fishery. But what we need to do now, Sir, is to e;x:ert a little coI111110n sense and ge.t down to brass tacks and do something about the needs of those thousands and thousands of men and women and children in this province who are 7524

June 24, 1975, Tape 2600 RH - 1 looking to us to try to rescue the fishery in this Province. Mr. Speaker, if we are going to bring the fishery into the twenty-first century we have to act now. We are at the point of no return anrl it would be cruel, Sir, it would be criminal to close down this House now. I do not care whether it is the middle of June or what month it is, We should be prepared to stay here.

It would be an insult, Sir, to our fishermen and our people to rush the business through this House now to get her closed so they can get out in their Burmuda shorts and pranch around in their summer cottages down by the lakes and the rivers. We have had too much of that in the past, Sir. Let us stay in the House.

I am sure the Member for Placentia East who was Chairman of that Committee did not go around this Province just to try to justify an expense account, that he went around sincerely trying to find out solutions to the problems of the inshore fishery, bring his report in,and I am sure the memb~r would be very gratified, would have contentment of mind if some of the recommendations w~re implemented and not r just come in and debate the report. What is the point, Mr. Speaker, of this whole debate? What is the pofnt?

I ask honourable members is there any point to it or are we just here trying to get a little mileage for ourselves, trying to leave the appearance 1'1f['th our phony I rhetoric ,and our phony arguments and our phony oratry.,; trying to leave the impression with the poor, old_fisherme11who cannot come in and sit in the galleries of this House, that we are concerned about his problem. We are concerned about it all right~ More concerned now with getting off to Florida and getting off to Paris and London! MR, EVANS: You do not even know Swmner from Winter. In Winter you have to go to Florida. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, the only answer to insuring the continuance, Sir, of the fishery for those hard pressed fishermen upon whom it depends, Sir, is to take it over, for the Province to take it over at the grass root level and provide the fishermen with decent 7525

l June 24, 1975. Tape 2600 RH - 2 organization to help them produce the product of the sea that is so badly needed to provide protein in a protein hungry world. We can no longer, Sir, continue this policy of passing the buck to Ottawa. Ottawa has an obligation and a responsibility, no question about that, Mr. Speaker. But, Sir, there is an obligation and a respon­ sibility that falls heavy on the shoulders of the elected representatives of this Province.

The only ones who have gotten any protection down through the years, Sir, from any of the assistance and benefits that have gone forward are the fish merchants themselves. They are the only ones who benefited. _!:!R. EARLE: Half of them i,ent bankrupt. MR.NEARY: Half of them went bankrupt, my eyeball! Half of them now are off living in foreign countries at the expense of the sweat of the brow of the fishermen of this Province and the minister knows that. Ah! He is not sitting too far away, Sir, from a gentleman who deserted, took his pound of flesh and deserted the fishermen of this Province.

No wonder we cannot get any action, Sir! I can look right across the benches on that honourable side of the Housel of that rich man's governmentiand I can tell the fishermen of this Province why they are not going to get any action on this report. While I am on that matter, Mr. Speaker, I would like to move an amendment.

The amendment I would like to move, Sir, is that the resolution be amended hy adding the words, "And that an F.xpediting Committee representing both sides of the House of Assembly be instituted immediately to plot the progressive steps including dates for implementing each of the recommendations presented in the Report of the Select Conuni ttee and that this Co!l111ittee plot a critical path method to cover not only the COl!D!littee's recommendations but also to present a proposal whereby both the inshore, mid-water and deep-sea fishermen be fitted out with modern efficient vessels, equipment and methods so that they will be able to take 7526

June 24, 1975. Tape 2601 RH - I advantage of any extension of our fishing zone." MR. CROSBIE: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The honourable gentleman's amendment which is long and torturous indeed is certainly contrary to the original resolution which thanks the Committee for their deligency and perception and directs the government to investigate i111111ediately the feasibility in implementing those rec0111111endations in the report that are within provincial jurisdiction.

The burden of this amendment is that an Expediting Committee be appointed to set dates, in other words, to take over the function of the government and to consider what should be done. That is obviously contrary to the resolution that is before the House. The amendment is completely contrary to the principle of the resolution. I submit, Your Honour, that it should be struck out. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Leader of the Opposition. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, I submit to the contrary that the amendment is Quite in order.

The motion itself, Sir, directs the government to investigate immediately the feasibility of implementing those recommendations of the report. The effect of the motion is to set up a C0111Dittee representing all sides of the House - I am sorry, the effect of the amendment is to set tip a Committee representing all sides of the House to list or to set forth some certain steps. Obviously the Committee can function only within the powers that are within the power of the government, of the Province as a whole. But, Mr. Speaker, this is merely an alternate method of achieving the end of the resolution.

While I do not have it opened in front of me, there are enumerable citations in Beauchesne to the effect that an amendment is in order if it presents an alternate method of achieving the end of the motion. The main reason why an amendment is struck down, Your Honour - Your Honour has done it on occasion- is that the amendment would negate the motion. This, Sir, will not negate the motion. It is an alternate to the motion. I submit the House should he allowed to consider it. Then if the House accepts it,well and good ,and if the House decides 7527

J une 24, 1975. Tape 2601 RH - 2 nc,t to accept it well that is the House's decision l!Ild sobeit. But I think the amendment, Sir, is in order and I submit it should be ..iccepted and be put to debate. MR. SPEAKER: The Chair is having thoughts on the amendment and would like tq take a few min,utes tq take a look at it before it makes a ruling on it, The Deputy Speaker is not here, so I sbali rece .ss the House for five minutes to take a look at it. 7528

-- June 24, 1975. Tape 2602 RH - l MR, SPEAKER: Order, please! The Chair has considered the amendment made by the honourable Member from Bell Island and after looking at the content of it very carefully and certain advice from officials at the table I am rul~n ,g that the amendment is out of order beca use if implemented, it would call for an expenditure of public monies ~h~course only a minister of the Crown can introduce. So, it is out of order. MR, NEARY: Mr, Speaker, here is one, if I was a member of that Committee,who would be prepared to volunteer his time.

Sir, that amendment would not cost the taxpayers of this Province one red cent, I am not questioning Your Honour's ruling. MR, SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! MR. HICKMAN: The honourable gentleman - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. HICKMAN: The honourable gentleman is questioning the Chair. MR. NEARY: No, I am not. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! Well, the Chair is certainly getting the inference now, at least,that the feeling is that the honourable Member from Bell Island is challenging the ruling made by the Chair. Of course, if he wishes to do that, it is his prerogative. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to move another amendment, Your Honour. I would like to move, Sir, that the resolution be amended by adding the words, "that an Expediting Committee representing both sides of the House of Assembly be instituted on a voluntary basis at no expense to the taxpayer of this ProYince, instituted on a voluntary basis and that members be permitted to voluteer their services if required to act on this Expediting Committee to see that the report of the Select Committee is implemented." MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, we have not got the proper wording of this amendment.

But adding the word "voluntary" makes no difference whether the committee is voluntary or not, Mr. Speaker, it makes no difference. The Committee is still supposed to do the things 7529

June 24, 1975. Tape 2602 RH - 2 that are outlined in this resolution that would involve spending of public funds and it is completely contrary to the original motion. MR. SPEAKER: rule that in '\ wording, the / \ would result Order, please! Order, please! The Chair has to essence,except for a few minor changes in the honourable member is introducing an amendment which in the expenditures of public ftll\ds. Again, the Chair has to rule it out of order. MR. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, I am sure that the honourable members would love to be able to silence me, Sir, because I am taking their buddies and their fish merchant friends and their wealthy,well-to·do friends and cramming them right down their throats, these well-to-do fish merchants who have deserted the fishermen of this Province, taken their couple of million dollars and cleared out and left the poor, old fishermen high and dry. Mr. Speaker, the Committee's report that we are studying here today did the right thing as far as it goes.

But it failed, Sir, as I said a few moments a~o, failed utterly in its imagination and in expressing a little common sense thinking to try and bring the fishery of this Province into the twenty-first century. There is no way, Mr. Speaker, that we can allow the fishery to die. If the fishery prospers in Newfoundland, Newfoundland prospers,and we cannot leave it in the hands of the buddies of this honourable crowd who are sitting on the government benches, their well-to-do, well-heeled friends. 7530

June 24, 1975 Tape 2603 (morning) Tll-1 We have to, Sir. It is a matter of life and death! MR. 'MURPHY: A point of order, Sir. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. MURPHY: I arise to a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! M'R. MURPHY: I am sat on this government side and I have not any well-heeled friends or anything else. Let the gentleman,if he wants to,name people, Do not cover us all in that. I have a right to stand up and defend myself. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, that is just a matter of opinion between two members. That is not a point of order, Your Honour. 'MR. :1-!URPHY: I think his time is up anyhow.

Get him out of there! MR. SPEAKER: ORder, please! Order, please) The honourable Member for Bell Island, the Chair - honourable members to my left may feel that the honourable member's remarks are certainly uncomplimentary. The Chair in its wisdom has to say that they are not unparliamentary at this point. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, they can be as uncomplimentary and as unpopular with honourable members as they like, Sir, but I am entitled to express my opinion in this honourable House, Sir, and I say that is a rich mans government,and that is my opinion.

Kowtowing, Sir, to their rich buddies and we see that now - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. NEARY: - we see that now almost happening in :1-'arystown where we had to buy an obsolete fish plant from a fish merchant for $2.6 million. He was the only one that benefited by it. Now, he is talking about moving into Marystown and the only claim that he has to fame is that he is anti-union, he fought the union. He still has the people of Ramea under his iron heel, and that will not be for much longer either. There is too much of this going on in Newfoundland.

We would be cowardly, Sir, we would be shirking our responsibility, we would be deserters, we would be weak-kneed, we would be wishy-washy, we would not he worth our salt and we would 7531

June 24, 1975 Tape 2603 (morning) IB-2 have no backbone if we close down this House without taking some action to try to save the fishery of this Province. That is what the fishermen are looking to their political representatives for today. We have frittered away enough time in this honourable House t~lking about foolishness. We have frittered BWay enough precious hours, Sir, on ridiculous and unproductive matters and phony oratory instead of getting down to common sense,brass tacks, really aimed, Mr. Speaker, at creating the obvious conditions that have been there before us for years. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Except by leave the honourable member's time has expired. Does the honourable member have leave? SOME HONOURABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! -~• SPEAKER: Order, please! :MR. NEARY: Sir, could I have a leave to carry on? MR. SPEAKER: Does the honourable member have leave? No. There is not unanimity . So, the honourable member cannot continue. SOME BONO AABLE MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! )fll. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, Your Honour allowed a member on the government side the other day to finish his remarks, the Minister of Mines and Energy. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! 1-ffi. NEARY: To wind up his sentence. !-IR.

SPEAKER: Order, please! The time that has been allocated for the honourable Member for Bell Island has expired. Well, why do we have rules for that side and a different for this side? Order, please! The Chair is not going to sit here and hear comments like that from the honourable Member for Bell Island, and we will ask the honourable member to make an unoualified apology to the Chair or he shall be named. 7532

June 211, 1975 Tape 2603 (morning) MR. NEARY: 'r. Speaker, 1 offer an un~ualified apology to Your Honour, but, Sir, :In the hea t of rhe moment I could not hel p hut referring the othe'C day to a minister, Sir, - f.11:1. SPEAKEll.; Order, please! MR. NEARY: - who was allowed to finish his sentence. MR . SPEAKER: Order, please! The Chair asked the honourable :!-1ember for llell Island for an unqualifiecl apology and i s not satJsfied with the one he just gave. lil-J MR. NEARY: I offer You'C Honour an unqualified apology and I hore the fi shermen will record it in their district, 1n Your Honour's district.

Close _it down. MR. SPEAKER: Order, pleas e! MR. NEARY: Let us get out of here. Go on your holida ys . C:n back to Florida. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Member for Bay de Verde. MR. HOWARD: ~r. Speaker, I would like to say a few words on th:ls report from the Select Committee of the House of Assembly. I h4ppened to be privileged to be a member of this Select Committee.

After travelling throughout the different . areas of Newfoundland, speaking to quite • few fishe'rmen, I have nothing but sympathy for these people, There is one thing I would J.ike to tallc on first, and it is that around Newfoundland we have a lot of small fish plants which are closed during Jll()St of the year 7533 .. ..

June 24, 197 5 Tape 2604 (Morning) PK - 1 because of the lack of supply of fish. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear! Hear! MR. HOWARD: I believe that something should be taken into consideration to try and have these plants supplied with fish in order that they would be operating for nine months out of the year instead of three. I was very disappointed in learning that Ottawa is not prepared to go along and enforce the 200 mile limit. And, I think, it goes to show that those in authority who should be implementing this do not have very much backbone.

But if they come to Newfoundland and see how the fishermen are suffering because of the lack of fish, and travel around as I did with the rest of the ml!lllbers of the Committee,J believe they would have a different outlook on it. On the gill net situation ,! do not think personally,and I knm.• that the district for which I speak would not be in favour of banning gill nets altogether.

I believe what should be done is some restrictions brought iorward that a fisherman should only be allowed to set the number of nets that he could attend, not for instance set 300 nets and it would take him probably three weeks before he could get to some of them, because this is only ruining the fishery. We have to look at the fishery very seriously because we have 10,000 or 12,000 jobs involved. And if the fishery is allowed to die in Ne~;foundland I believe myself that Newfoundland will die with it.

The Unemployment Insurance scheme is not adequate to take care or to look after the fishermen at a time when they are no longer able to fish. There is no incentive in it to have fishermen go fishing because a guy on the land can only work for eight weeks and draw Unemployment Insurance for forty-four, when a fisherman can only draw it for seven or eight weeks. And the Unemployment ~nsurance,as far as fishermen like around Port aux Basques are concerned,it is of no benefit to them, because they are Winter fishermen and they cannot fish within 7534

June 24, 1975 Tape 2604 (Morning) PK - 2 the category of the time limit allotted to draw Unemployment Insurance because they are fishing during that period of time. I listened to the Hon. Member for Bell Island speak here this morning on the fishery. And it amazes me, in fact, to see a man who has been a member of a government for thirteen or fourteen or twelve years.however long he was there,and never had the backbone or the gall to come out and speak up for the fishermen at that time.

Over the past ten or fifteen years the fishery in Newfoundland has been allowed to decline to such a state where now it is almost impossible to bring it back. And when the government of that day was busy building white elephants around this Province.which closed up shortly after at a cost to the taxpayers,that if they had to pour some of that money into the fisheries at that time I do not think that we would be in such a state as we are now.

And speaking for the district of Bay de Verde myself when I was elected there some three and a half years ago I do not think there was one place in that district that was fit to haul a boat up, there were no slipways there. And a few that were built there by the Government of Ottawa, of Canada, they got in such a state of disrepair that I had to almost get down on my knees and beg Ottawa to come back and repair them, and then they did not get back until the fishing was well underway in the middle of June or the first week in July. But since been elected to office, thanks to this P.C.

Govermnent, the Moores Administration,the people in the district of Bay de Verde have adequate landing facilities now for their fish. Go to Grates Cove~ They 753~

J\llle 24, 1975 Tape No. 2605 NM - 1 have a slipway there that is second to none in Newfoundland where before they had to take their boats to Old Perlican, Bay de Verde, etc., in order to pull them ashore. If a storm came on they had to risk their lives to get out of Grates Cove in order to save them. That is only one. I could go on for hours on what has been done for the fishermen in the district of Bay de Verde over the past three and a half years. MR. MOORES: Any federal money in Old Perlican? MR.

HOWARD: The only federal money in Old Perlican when the federal government would not go along with giving that marine complex last year, the provincial government pumped the money in there itself. They did come out this year and put in some money to pave the parking area around the marine complex - MR. MJORES: What about the breakwater? MR. HOWARD:- which I think it is about time they did something.

The breakwater they spent $500,000 on, a drop in the bucket, t' d it took the people in Old Perlican ten years to get them to see , hat , And I had I to wear the phone out and use up half the papers in Confederation Building to get it after. In travelling with the Select Committee I was fortunate enough to be with the Connnittee when they visited Forteau on the Labrador Coast. It really would break your heart to see tt.hat the fishermen had to do there in order to launch a longliner, much less pull it up.

They had to hire two dozers and get a cable on the boats and lower them over a thirty-five to forty foot bank or cliff, whatever you might call it, before they could get it in the water. I think that in this day and age that is ridiculous and I do not think anybody in this honourable House or outside of it should blame the Provincial P.C. Government for that when it has been there since John Cabot discovered Newfoundland. Personally I think that if both governments are prepared to carry out the recommendations that are contained in this Select Committee's 7536

June 24, 1975 Tape No. 2605 NM - 2 Report and to carry them out within the immediate future , I tllink it will be of great benefit to the fishermen of Newfoundland and l believe at long last they will have some respect for those who are concerned about the fisheries and the committees in the future who will go around the Province of Newfoundland to find out of any minor problems once these major ones ·are taken care of. MR. SPEAKER: The honourable Member for Port de. C-tave. HR, WILSON: Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak on this committee. Being a member, I was on that Committee.

We have heard in this House already today, being appointed I myself was asked if I would serv e on that Committee, representing a district made up of fishermen who put their whole heart and soul into the fishery, and twenty-seven years under the belt, being a fisherman myself, that I thought tha t at last the time has come when it was a great honour to serve on this Committee and to serve a province and also a district which I represented which was made up of fishermen and I mean to say here now that fishermen, I like a good many more have 7537 ..

June 24, 1975. Tape 2606 RH - l sat and listened over the period of years since Confederation about our fishery,and what did we hear? We heard . the same thing as we heard here today in this honourable House from the honourable Member from Bell Island. Attacking whom? Attacking whom? The merchants of this Province who helped to carry on the fishery, to build it and stabilize this Province. Where do we go now? I went fishing for twenty-seven years, I mean fishing.

I knew something about it, where there were seven or eight men in crew could land twenty-two to twenty-five hundred quintals of fish and make them all and dry them and be home the last of October. Who did we have to go to in the Spring of the year to get on the Labrador to go fishing? You had to go to a merchant with your finger in your mouthtand he supplied you, took chances on supplying you, possibly with enough grub to put yourself and your family over the Summer and enough to put you through the Winter. These are people that we hear attacked on the floors of this honourable House, not only today.

All I have to say here now,and I do not have to bring any personalties into it~ but it was the former Premier of this Province who has got us in such a state today that you cannot ask a merchant for a lead pencil without it is government backed. How does this country of ours here in Newfoundland become what it is? Who came and settled here? The life blood of it was the fishery. It has got me and you, Mr. Speaker and many others that are here just through the fishery.

They were not looking to government for hand-outs but they were men of ability and it was taught to them that ther had to work hard and honest to get it. What did we hear? The reason why our fishery is gone because there was going to be two jobs for every man,and three jobs. It got our younger generation out of the fishing boat. Still, thanks be to God, we still have some of them. We were told here today and told here before there was no one in the fishing boats today only those of 7538

June 24, 1975. Tape 2606 RII - 2 sixty-five and seventy years of age, I tell you if the people who think that had travelled this Island as I did.and a good many more on this Select COIQIUttee and looked at the younger generation at the meetings, s0111e of them fifteen and eighteen and twenty years of age, they would not say they were sixty-five or seventy who were in the fishing boats. MR. NEARY: 'Who said that? MR. WILSON: lt was said here long, long ago • MR, NEARY: By whom? MR. WILSON: By whom? By your leader, by your leader, by your leader. That is who said it.

Let him go into the place and the cOD1111unities that we are visiting, the fishing communities and find out and see who we found there, the life blood of this Province. It would make one's heart boil to see that we have a younger generation willing to go and take the perils of the sea to try to make a livelihood, earn a livelihood and eam it honest,not by the sunburn scorching forehead, but the salt water spray, to try to make a livelihood, We still have thf!lll, What do we find? What do we find here today?

As the honourable Member from Bay de Verde said, we find the Member from l!lell Island getU.ng up on the floor, been here for twelve or thirteen years and never made a whisper, never made a whisper 7539

June 24, 1975 Tape 2607 (morning) about our fishery. Never made a whisper. MR.. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I just want to correct the - a point of order, Sir. The statement made hy the honourable member, Sir, is untrue. For thirteen years, Sir, each year, I have made an annual speech on the fishery. The memher has not been here long enough. When he is here as long as I am then he will realize what he said 1s untrue. SOME HONOURABLE MF.MBERS: Oh, oh! _l!R. SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please!

IB-1 Whether the honourable Member for Bell Island made his speech during his career as a member of this House or not is, the Chair feels, a matter of opinion between hoth honourable members. ~- WILSON: Mr. Speaker, whether it is untrue or whether it is not, his actions here today have shown that he was dead opposed to the fisheries conunittee being set up under the chairmanship of the able gentleman, the Member for Placentia East. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, a point of order. Your Honour knows that I did not make any such statement or inference or reference. Sir, as a matter of fact I praised the committee.

I said they were probably sincere and conscientious, but all they did was sununarize what we already knew. W:111 the honourable . member please get his facts straight? Or is he so thick-headed that he does not let it sink :In. MP. . SPEAKER: Order, please! Order, please! l'P . NF.ARY: Go back to your lumber business. 1-IR. PEJ,KF:R: Order, please! MR. NEARY : Go back to your lumber business. MR. SPEAKER: Again the Chair's ruling is a difference of opinion between two honourable members. ~R. NEARY : You can see the member's motive, Sir - ~'R.

MURPHY: They did nothing, ynu said, they did nothing only rehash what happened several years ago. MR. WILSON: Mr. Speaker, the actions from the Member for Bell Island by trying to offset, to brinP, in an amendment to this 7540

June 24, 1975 Tape 2607 (morning) committee - what he has tried to do here today goes to show that he just does not want this committee to function. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker - MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! IB-2 MR. NEARY: To a point of order, Mr. Speaker. The honourable member knows, Sir, that is not true. I was trying to get the recommendatjons of the COl'll1littee implemented. That was the purpose of the amendment, Sir. That statement made by the member, Mr. Speaker, is completely false and untrue and I ask Your Honour to either, if the member is going to quote me, to quote me correctly or Your Honour name hjm. ~.

SPfcAKER: Order, please! On several occasions now the honourable Member for Bell Island has risen on a point of order that really was not quite a valid point of order. It is a difference of opinion between two honourable members. MR. NEARY: No, Mr. Speaker. It is a matter of a statement that I made. MR. WILSON: Mr. Speaker - _MR. SPEAKER: Order, please: MR. WILSON: I think I have been granted the privilege of the floor. If the honourable Member for Bell Island would just take it cool. I took it cool when I was listening to him trying to shoot off over there. SOME RONOURABLE MEMl!ERS: Oh, oh! MR.

SPEAY.ER: Order, please! MR. WILSON: It goes to show that he was not in favor of the committee or else he would not have brought in anything against it. But, as I have said before, why did they not when they had a chance do something about it. When the honourable Jack Davis, he was going to clear out the seal fishery by. Now, I adjourn the debate at last. they let that go idly MR. SPEAKER: I now aall it one of the clock and leave the Chair until three o'clock this afternoon. 7541

June 24, 1975 The House resumed at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Chair. Tape No. 2608 NM - 1 MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! When we adjourned for lunch the honourable Member for Port de Grave was speaking on the Report of the Select Committee on the Inshore Fishery and I recognize the honourable Member for Port de Grave. MR. NFARY: Point of order, Sir. We should have a quorum in the House before we start the proceedings, Sir. I notice there is no quorum, MR. YOUNG: MR. EVANS: Sit down! Sit down! Sit down~ A retarded party. MR. SPEAKER: There is a quorum. MR.

NEARY: Does Your Honour not have to wait three minutes before we count the House after the bell rinfs according to the Standing Rules of the House? MR. EVANS: You could not count to fourteen in three hours. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! The Standing Order says that there should be a three minute interval before a quorum is called. I recognize the honourable Member for Port de Grave. MR. WILSON: Mr.

Speaker, as I was speaking to this debate before lunch.apparently it seems like some of the honourable members wish to prolong this as far as that is concerned, It aeems like they do not want to hear anything about the inshore fishery. They are constantly interjecting into the debate and as far as I am concerned it is high time that we have come to a conclusion to try to do something about the inshore fishery. For many a year, as we all know, since Confederation, it was always passing the buck - gill nets bigger longliners, more trawlers and what not.

I think in time past it someone had stood on his own feet in this honourable House that we would not be into the situation that we are into today. Our stocks would not be depleted,and depleted they are,for one reason, because there is no initiative taken by our federal government. That is shown by what is after happening in this ICNAF Conferesnce. We have no one 7542

June 24, 1975 Tape No . 2608 NM - 2 to take a staml and if Newfoundland is going to be viable as a province to pay our way, our fisheries shoilld be talc.en care of, first to find out and see if there is something that can be done about it. ~d I presume if there was a ban put on certain areas of the fishery for five years there might be a chance of seeing where it could be viabl.e again. But if one would look back and if there is any thought or lllelllOrv or :recollections whatsoever, all of this is placed, as it were, before us in big book to read.

If we would only just say stop t.o what we are now going through? It may be there is nothing that can be do.ne about it but at least we.,as a government, as a people, can try and do something about it. And then shoill.d all fail you would not be cast aside _and it said that you never tried to do your pare. And I think this government should be complimented and our Minister of Fisheries 7543

June 24, 1975 Tape 2609 (Afternoon) PK - 1 for arriving at this particular point in time when this Committee was set up. And I am sure we have heard it said the fisheries are being studied to death, and it is true. But studied to death how? Now by going amongst fi~hermen, getting them into a meeting and finding out their views and their ideas and finding out the situation we are into. It is sad when you c0111e to find out and go to meetings amongst fishermen, one, two, three and four hundred in different communities and to see the despair they are into and do not know where to turn.

And I say here and now that is a challenge to the federal government. We are blaming gill nets for the cause of our fish, a lot of it being depleted. And I claim and I stand here now and say now that I do believe it because when all the mother fish are collected while spawning, what you have left is nothing. And that is where we are now. In my little community yesterday morning there was a longliner went out and hauled their gill nets, I think, they hauled five gill nets, they had twenty-six fish out of five gill nets. MR. EVANS: In Port de Grave? MR. WILSON: Right. It is a sad state of affairs.

And I say right now that the federal government could do nothing better over a period of time even if the y had to pay the people for their gill nets, let them be phased out over a period of years, even if it took say five years for the gill nets to phase out. If we are going to take action and try to do something about it, God knows we cannot wait for any riper time than right now. You can dip water out of a well and receive enough to drink but when you get to the last drop there is none left. And apparently everything has been done with our fishery.

It has been pondered over and everything tried every way in the world even to establishing fish meal plants where all the young fish were taken and turned into fish meal. In the days when I went fishing on the Labrador you could land probably 1,000, 1,500, 2,000 quintals of fish, and the so-called rounders or small fish, why, you would be lucky to have five or six or barrels in the Fall of the year, because the 7544

June 24, 1975 Tape 2609 (Afternoon) PK - 2 younger fish were turned back into the water to grow. But right now everything is taken, and what is not used say for human consumption it taken to a fish meal plant, everything being depleted. And we have sat idly by - and I do not want to bring politics into this - sat idly by for twenty-three years and under Confederation no one rose to speak about it to try and solve the problems of the fishery.

As I said here this mornin~ all you heard was talk of two and three jobs for every man, and our younger generation stepped out of the fishing boat and went to look for a college education. But what did they find? They found nothing! They had education. Some of them never had a fishing boat to get aboard to get out and go fishing, which 1s a good livelihood. And as far as I am concerned back in the good old days when I was a fisherman for twenty-seven years, and I found the field pretty prosperous when I was at it. Pretty prosperous why? If you were a fisherman you have to put some incentive into it.

And I say right here and now, without making any bones about it that one of the problems of our fishery is everybody is looking to the government asking, what is the government going to do? But the time has come in the fishery for each individual to ask what am I going to do to put something into it? Mr. Speaker, I have found in a few years that I tried to work and strive to build up a business and what not, I found that I had to work hard and honest to put something in, in order for the other fellow to 7545

.li me 74 , 19 75 Tape 2610 (afternoon) IR-1 tRke somethinit out. TI11t, the c';ay and age h11s come now when it seems 11ke we 11rp trying to take e\re-rything out anci put nothing in. Therefore, our youngrr penerat1on shouln be put to a place that our fl'neral government along with our provincial government, and the federal has to have the first p;o on it, to clo something to upgracie our fisheries. Supposing, as J said before, there is a ban on certain areas for five years. It :Is better for there to be a ban for five years than in future to live with nothing.

I never saw it :In my time, in the town of rlarkp's Beac:J, where I live that you could not buy a meal of fresh fish. Now, th:ls is a sad state of affairs, not that we have not got fishermen willing to p,o fishing but one goes and toils clay and night and come bac1' w:lth nothing, only cliscourap.;ed.

And to sit in this honourable House of Assembly with the Opposition getting up and banging and trying to trigger around this Fisheries Committee, when we should he itoing hand in hand and trying to do something shout it and forget our pol:!tics and forget our petty wonders and get clown and get to work anci try to do something for the ~rovince where we will not he :In a welfare state. MR. NEARY: That is what we are saying. MR. wn.snN: That is what you are saying? Mll. NEARY: That is what I sai~ this morning. MR.

WILSON: Now, r am proud to have worked on th is Committee with even a couple . nf members from the Oppositfon Party. I make no bones ahout it. They are rnen as far as that is concerned who are tryirg to do their part. I am sorry that the honourable ~emher for Fop,o is not in his seat. I was quite impressed when we had our meeting in Fogo, as I said her~ this morning about our seal fishery which was just about thrown out. You were not allowed to use a gaff or nothing to save your life, and it came on the floors of this honourable House and no one would battle it.

They ler it go through until it came to the place that "Te had ab nut 2 ,SC10 fishermen going to the ice every Spr:lng and coming home and deriving~ livP.lihood and they let that all go clown the drain. 7546

June 24, 1975 Tape 2610 (afternoon) Ill-2 When I went down in Fogo to the Fisheries Committee meeting to see the men coming in with longliners with 300 and 400 seal pelts probably $30,000 or $40,000 in a couple to three weeks or a month brought into a community, this is something to make you proud to be on a Fisheries Committee, to know that you are trying to do something, to figure out something for this Province as far as that is concerned, God knows right here where we are that we have enough people looking for handouts from the government. And who is the government?

The government are the taxpayers of this Province. I 8111 one of them and you as well. This is what we have to get down to. We have waited too long. It is too late to put the lock on the door when the horse is gone. It is better to lock the door when he is there. I say right here and now, Mr. Speaker, that this government as far as that is concerned with its members who have been on the Select Committee and our chairman and those who worked with us, we have fought hard to try to do a good job for the fishermen without any remunertaion as far as I am concerned.

I was prepared to lose my time and am prepared now and satisfied to say here now, as the Member for Bonavista had said, that this should not stop where we are, this should be an ongoing thing, I 8111 sure, and I speak with confidence.with a young, aggressive man as the Ministry of the Fisheries as we have in the honourable member, ¥r. Crosbie, I think with young blood, I thivk that we can build a future, but we have not very much longer to do it.

I fear to see that if the generation that is in the fishing boat now slip miay and there is nothing done, then there is going to be a sad state in the fisheries as far as that is concerned. While there is not all emphasis on fisheries, it takes something else besides the fisheries to keep this Province going, there is farming as well of which very little has been spoken about. There are other things in this Province, But, as far as that is concerned it takes the fishery 7547

June 24, 1975. Tape 2611 RH - 1 along with other things as well to make this Province viable. Mr. Speaker. apparently the honourable Member for Labrador North and the honourable Member for Bell Island do not know the language but if they got the education, Mr. Speaker, and they used the dictionary - probably they have swallowed it. I never swallowed mine - so, as far as I am concerned, Mr. Speaker, all we have heard is about the $40 million for trawlers and this and that. Probably our government is after taking a second look, our Premier and our Minister of Fisheries are after taking a second look on it.

Probably it is not the draggers we need. Probably we have got too many now. I say there is a possibility that we have some that we have scrapped and some that are coming over to the other side and a ban put on them, we would have a better fishery. MR. NEARY: Is that government policy you are stating now? MR. WILSON: Never mind government policy. It is my idea, not whatever government policy is as far as that is concerned. MR. EVANS: Would you like to buy the draggers we have now? MR.

WILSON: I hope to conclude, I hope to conclude that my idea may be probably even better one to take hold to than the one the honourable Member for Bell Island has put forth here to try to knock this Fisheries Committee as far as that is concerned. MR. NEARY: I knocked the Committee? MR. WILSON: Knock, yes, everything. MR. EVANS: Knock your wooden head. MR. DOODY: Knock, knock Neary we will call him. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please: MR. NEARY: How about the lumber industry? MR. WILSON: The honourable member does not have to worry a great lot about the lumber industry as far as that is concerned.

Probably if he had the gumption to start out instead of all talk they might be able to do something for the people on Bell Island as far as the lumber is concerned. I have nothing to claim for lumber, 7548

June 24, 1975. Tape 2611 RH - 2 getting any out of government or anyone else as far as that is concerned. MR. EVANS: He sold all the lumber in his logger days. MR. WILSON: Mr. Speaker, as far as that is concerned it has all been talked about the fishery, what has been done for the fisherv and what not. We know a lot has been done. But I was very impressed on this Fishery Co111111ittee to find out, to be told they wanted bigger boats. They wanted more gear.

We went into fishing communities and found out two men in a dory were making more money than men with a longliner that cost $70,000 or $80,000 - and two men in a dory are making more money than some guys are making in a longliner. This goes to show me, :M'r. Speaker, there is a place for the underdog and there is a place for the big fellow as well. Probably we have paid too much attention on trawlers and longliners. Therefore, by doing that there is only a certain set of people who got it. The S111aller fellows, the real fishermen are the fishermen who are after being neglected.

It is all right when you are up but I say, Mr. Speaker, the fellow who is down is the fellow you have to get up and lift up and get him up along side the other fellow as well and probably we can do a good job in fishing and a good job in government.

My plea is here now, Sir, is as far as this is concerned, that I hope that the Federal Government will take a second look at it and put a ban on the gill nets and phase them out over a period of five years, supposing you had to subsidize the fishermen and pay them for their nets and supply them with trawls and let them trawl the fish instead of gill nets being lost on the bott0111 to create a problem, what we call ghost net fishing. Mr, Speaker, I am very privileged to be able to stand in this House and speak on this Fisheries Committee and the fisheries report, coming from a fishing settlement.

I am sure the people of Port de Grave, particularly the fishermen there have tried their best as far that is concerned to make the fishery viable. Some can 7549

June 24, 1975. Tape 2611 RH - 3 and more cannot hecause thP stocks are not there. Until we get some jurisdiction and the Federal r.ovemment to go along with the Provincial Government to do something about it, probably the next year or the year after we will be in a worst state because we will have no fishery at all . Thank you. HR. SPEAKER: The honourable Member for Bonavista North. 7550

June 24, 1975, Tape 2612, Page 1 -- apb Afternoon MR. P.S.THOMS: Mr. Speaker, as a member of this Committee I thought that like all other members I would try to get my two cents worth in. The Committee, Mr. Speaker, was set up to investigate all aspects of the inshore fishery in Newfoundland and to report back to this honourable House. Mr. Speaker, our hands were almost tied from the word go because a time limit was placed upon the Committee. This, I thought at the time, was very unfair indeed, because to traverse the shores of Newfoundland even in the 8\Dllmer months is a difficult job in itself.

And the Committee had to traverse our shores in the Spring of the year and, of course, in Newfoundland in the Spring of the year we experience some of the worst weather conditions that the North Atlantic can throw at us. We met, Mr. Speaker, thousands of people during our visits to the various communities. I did not attend all the meetings. I found it impossible. I doubt if any member attended all the meetings. But I attended what meetings I could and I listened very attentively to the problems of the fishermen of our land. And,Mr.

Speaker, the problems of our fishermen today are not exactly the same in every community of our province. They vary almost from community to conmnmity, from the people in Newtown,who do not have a slipway to haul up their boats,to the people over in St . George's who have to land on the beach to land their catch - they do not even have a stagehead - to all the other problems that we met during our traverse, the problems of both facilities and equipment. And, Mr.

Speaker, I suppose if we went to every co11D11unity in the Province we would find various problems, different problems and all of these would have to be solved in different ways. There is,however, MR. PECKFORD: Where is the common denominator? MR. THOMS: Of course,there is always a connnon denominator. But, Mr. Speaker, I suppose during this session of the House of Assembly the inshore fishery has been talked about more than ever it has been talked about before in the history of our Province. Now I myself have had very little to do with the inshore fishery.

However I have filled up the barrow on many a morning, But both my father's people and my mother's people come from long and outstanding names 7551

June 24, 1975, Tape 2612, Page 2 -- apb in the fishing industry - families in the fishing industry - and have prosecuted the fishery all down through the ages. And I think you will find some of them even today prosecuting the fishery. And so the fishery, especially the inshore fishery, Mr. Speaker, has been in my bl-ood as long as I have been born. Now, Mr. Speaker, we can stand here in this House of Assembly and we can talk abou .t the problems of the fishery.

Any honourable gentleman .can get up and talk about certain problems and I can get up and I can thrash over the same old problems and we can acc~lish nothing with our long oratory in this House of Assembly •. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Rear! Hear! MR. THO.MS: We have had four hundred years now, and I do not care what political party waB in power at the time, 7552 Aftern .oon

June 24, 1975 Tape 2613 (afternoon) TB-1 we have had approximately 400 years of neglect of Newfoundland's most important basic industry. Eighty per cent, Mr. Speaker, of our people either directly or indirectly rely upon the fishery for their livelihood in Newfoundland, not only in years gone by but even today. It is with that in mind, Mr. Speaker, that I believe that we in Newfoundland should certainly pay more attention to this basic industry of ours. In Newfoundland the most important industry in our land is the fishing industry.

If you look at the Newfoundland hudget, not only this year, last year~but as far back as you would like to go, you will find that our budget has not related at all to the most important has1c industry of our land. I examined, for example, the budg1?ts of three other provinces. I particularly examined the three Prairie Provinces. And while their primary basic industry is not fishing but t-he:!r most important industry is in the agricultural field_, And these three provinces have recognized their basic most important industry and have pa:!d specific attention to it.

Alberta, for example, spends two per cent of its total budget on agriculture. Manitoba spends four per cent on agriculture, its most important industry. Saskatchewan spends five-point-eight per cent of its total budget on agriculture. If we compare this to the most important industry in Newfoundland, what do we find? We find that we spend less than one per cent of our total budget on fisheries. This year out of a budget of almost $1,100,000,000, we are spending $9.2 million on fisheries. This, Mr. Speaker, does not at all give the fishing industry the recognition that it should have or that it deserves.

Our expenditure this year on fisheries should be in the vicinity of $40 million to $45 million. I do not blame this on the present administration because the trend has long been set, but I hope and trust that govemnent both now and in the future will pay the proper attention to the fishery of this Province as it deserves. Mr. Speaker, I could speak I suppose for days on the various aspects of the fishery. I am sure it has all been said before, but 7553

June 24, 1975 Tare 2613 (afternoon) IR-2 there are a few things which I ... ,ould like to elaborate on. During our rounds around the Province we did n.ot hear one voice from any of the fishermen , not one voice was r11ised against the Fresh Fish 'larketing Cor po r Ation , the Saitfish rorpor at1on. There was one voice raised but that was not from a fisherman. It was from a merchant. I am sure the members of the Committ ee know who l am talk ing about. ~r.

Speake r, for the first time in our history the Salt~ fish Corpora tion is doing justice to t he fishermen who either supply the Sal t fi.sh r.orporation with fish , either salt or fresh. And, ~r . Speaker, the idea o f this corpo ration was a godse nd to t hou sands and t housands of our fish ernen. It would do we ll of any administration to expand and to encourage this corporati on and if nece ssary t o implemrnt a simila r corporation to handle the fresh fish 7554

June 24, 1975 Tape 2688 (Night) PK - 2 Province. There will be no more restricted licences. t.fuat I mean is that a magistrate takes my licence away one month, after five months from that date I can go to the - if he takes it away for twelve months - I can go to the Appeal's Board and apply for my licence and if the Board listens to my appeal, if they rule in favour of my appeal they will then issue my licence back to me, not a restricted licence. They will restore my licence Now that, Mr.

Speaker, is not looking after the fact that we have had so many drunken drivers on the highways and we must cut down on the number of restriuted licences. Because in my view, Mr. Speaker, this act or this bill to amend The Highway Traffic Act is going to mean that there will be more licences than ever before iasued now after the licence was suspended, because they can take their cases to the Appeal's Board and have their cases appealed by that Board, and decisions made. And the reason why, if you look at page 4, at the bottom of page 4, the restoration of licence in order of the Board,

Section 9 of the main act, that a person whose driver's licence has been suspended or cancelled under Subsection (1) for a violation of this act or the regulations for which he has been convicted or subsection (3) may after the expiration of one half of the period of suspension or cancellation can apply to the Board for an order directing the registrar to restore the driver's licence. That, Mr. Speaker, is quite clear. I can if I wanted to, if I lost IIJ licence,can come in and appeal to the Appeal's Board to have my licence restored. Now what it would mean then, if the Appeal's Board said, "Okay.

You are not It getting your licence back, we go back to the system we have now, where I could take the decision of the Appeal's Board to the court, to a judge and he ~rould decide whether to uphold the Appeal's Board decision or not. MR. BARRY: That is your

interpretation. MR. MORGAN: Well according to the act. That is how the act reads now. So the fact is, Mr. Speaker, in my reading of this act, and maybe the minister will clarify the points I am making, but the fact that the Suspension Appeal Roard with three or five members can decide on who gets a driver's licence 7755

J une 24, 1975 Tape No. 2614 NM - 2 MR, THOMS: And, Mr. Spealter, the caplin scull is not rea1ly struck in yet, and I would suspect that within the next thre .e or four weeks - MR. NEARY: I was casting for c~plin yesterday on Bell Island. MR. THOMS: - we will numerous ~lee of where our fishermen will have to dump fish just because the fish plants are glutted at this time of the year. They cannot handle the catches, and we have no other facilities to handle the fish. We do not seem to even have facilities at the present time to salt it