''" VOL. 2 PRELIMI!~ARY UNEDIT:C:D THAN SCRIPT HOUSE OF ASSE~ffiLY FOR THE PERIOD: 3:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. THURSDAY, MARCH 20, 1980 NO. 1.4

\ March 20, 1980 Tape No. 494 DW - 1 The House met at 3:00 P.M. Mr. Speaker in the Cha~r. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please! STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS ,'!R. SPEAKER: and Energy. MR. L. BARRY: the draw.< The hon. Minister of ~ines The Speaker is too fast on Mr. Speaker,I find it nec­ essary today to comment upon the location of the Hiber­ nia and Ben Nevis wells because of confusion presently existing in the media. The confusion appears to have arisen from references to the first &ibernia well being 196 miles from St. John's. In fact, St.

John's is not the closest point of land to Hibernia,as I think we all realize, ~at would he Cape Spear- and the 196 miles was a reference to statute rather than nautical miles. So there is a possibility of an error eompounded. Dis- cussions at the Law of the Sea Conference refer to possible revenue sharing outside of 200 nautical miles from the closest low water point of land. A nautical mile is longer than a statute mile; ane'nautical mile equals,I am told,l.lS statute miles.

All of the wells in which hydrocarbons have been found are within 200 nautical miles,•nd I set out the crespective distances: The first Xibernia well was 164 nautical miles from the low water mark at Cape Spear: the second cne,l62 nautical miles: Ben Nevis; 184;and the newest Hibernia stepout 1 164 nautical miles. A map showing these locations is attached. I must stress,hcwever,that nothin~ has changed with respect to our concerns over the Law of the Sea ~nfer­ encets attempts to gain revenae sharing and this is why­ it is astounding 1 really.l ~f anybody saw the report from 1304

March 20, 1980 Tape ~lo. 494 0~1 - 2 !-!::\. L . !!.\~R":': Sali~ax las t ~~gh:, it ~as built up as if, 'Oh, now =hat it is within 200 ~ile~ Sen Nevis a~d Hibernia, there is no problem'. There a:e lar~e areas of our continental ~argin outside of 200 nautical miles a~d petroleum ootential exists there. Structures for drilling ,w h ic~ oay be additio~al oil fields ,bave been identified outside of 200 nautical miles. The 1958 Geneva Convention on the continental shelf recognizes that our country by international law presently holds petroleum r ig~ts out to the edge o! the continental margin.

Any concessions for revenue sharing with foreign nations would ~ean a relinquis hing by Canada of some of these existing ri ghts which within Canada are provincial ri9hts. Our govarnment's position is that th e federal government s~ould not, indeed cannot give away rights belonging to this Province. 1305

March 20, 1980 Tape No. 495 NM - 1 SOME HON. ME.t1BERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. V'!ader of the Opposition . MR. JANIESON: Well, Mr. Speaker, there is not verymuch th~t it is necessary to say or to add to the statement made by the minister,and I thank him for providing a copy. Apart from everything else,I ~~ess it is at least helpful to know that in this case we are taLking within the 200 nautical miles and therefore the issue referred to on the second page does not come up. I think,insofar as the second

part is concerned,it is one of the matters that once again I would like to have the opportunity to get information from government spokesman on through a select committee or in some other way. MR. ROBERTS: Hear, hear! MR. JANIESON: But on the other hand,I thoroughly agree, and incidentally my position on this is very well known, that I have neve~ nor, do I believe.my colleagues feel that there is any justification for revenue sharing beyond 200 miles.

I think we have a clear and unmistakable responsibility as a nation to look after QQde~eveloped countries, ~t I have never accepted this particular technique as being the one. And I think beyond that I do not think there is anything more that I need to say at this .time. MR. ROBERTS: r:ear, hear! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Further statements? ORAL QUESTIONS: MR. S?EAKER: The han. Leader of the Opposition. MR. JAMIESON: Mr. Speaker, a question for the !>'.inister of social Services.

Given the fac~ that it appears, and indeed it is a certainty, that within a very short time there will be an increase in the guaranteed income supplement, and given the fact that periodically,through indexing,old age assistance and old age pensions are increased, my concern and the question is, is there some way in which the minister can ensure that 1306 f( ' I

March 20, 1980 Tape No. 495 NM - 2 MR. JAMIESON: at least some small amount of these increases is retained by the residents of various homes throughout Newfoundland? I have had, and my collegaues, and perhaps members opposite have had, representation saying that in effect if a person is a resident of a home it really does not matter how much either the pension or the GIS goes up, the pittance,really, that they are left with for their own personal necessities and the like .1as not changed in a number of years, and that of course they are feeling the effects of inflation as is everybody else.

And as a compassionate move, I wonder if the minister would consider whether it might be feasible through some technique to ensure that at least a portion of the increase .is left with these elderly people for the ordinary small necessities which they are finding it increasingly difficult to buy? MR.. ROBERTS : MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR.. HICKEY: o;entleman is referring to Hear, hear! The hen. Minister of Social Services. Mr. Speaker, I take it that what t~e hon. is the personal allowance, pocket allowance.

As a rule he is right, for the most part, When the increase came it was reduced from the amount, or in other words it was not passed on to the recipient. I will have to check this out to make sure that I am absolutely accurate, but for the benefit of the House I believe that last year was the first year that there was a departure from that and I believe, I am not sure of the amount, I think it was somewhere in the order of $9 to $10, and the increase was passed on to the recipient. There was an increase in the allowance from 1307

.. ~\ March 20,1980 Tape No. 496 AH-1 MR. HICKEY: forty-one, I bel~eve, or forty- two dollars to fifty dollars and whatever the increase was it was passed on to the recipient. Insofar as what happens this year,I can only say, it being a fiscal item that is not yet addressed, I can only say that I will have to take it up with my colleagues and,when we determine the amount, make a decision at that time.

I can certainly associate myself with the remarks of the Leader of the Opposition in terms of a need based on inflation and all of that,and I believe 1 if my memory serves me correctly 1 that it was. in keeping with this spirit that last year the iBc:rease was in fact passed on to the recipient. MR. JAMIESON: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) of the Opposition. MR. JAMIESON: A supplementary. A supplementary. The han.

Leader I thank the han. member for his answer and I would hope 1 for instance 1that if in no other way perhaps some consultation with federal authorities on the matter might be undertaken to 1 in a sense,perhaps as the bill is put through or something of that sort to allocate or perhaps even to add cn,because it is not an enormous amount of money, but certainly from the standpoint of an elderly person who wishes,for instance,to hire a taxi or to drive to visit relatives and friends and so on, I think the minister is aware that it is very inadequate at the present time, so would he look at it from both those points of view?

MR. SPEAKER: Mr. HteKEY: Hon. Minister of Social Services. Mr. Speaker, I certainly will. I might take the opportunity as well to point out and to tell the Leader of the Opposition that one of the problems in the past was the problem with the federal auditors who come in and who check our books. A recipient who receives a federal allowance cannot, at the same time, receive a provincial 1308

-~~ :-larch L0,1980 /Tape llo. <:96 An-2 MR. HICKEY: allowance . That is t~e understa~c1ng. This is '"'here the proble:n is. MR . NEARY: ~Y are 50 cold-heart""' t:k~ ,..Hi r.ot (.l:niWdil:>le) they want to - !<IR. HI.C~EY: Well,tbat might very well be. We have had a hassle with them on a number o! occasio~s. my staf= i:::~forms me. I am not aware of how we got over it last year . I will undertake to get the inform at ion and the details. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : MR. :-IHITE: The hon. member for Lewisporte. ~r. Speaker, oy question is for the Minister of Finance (Or .Collins) .

It is a follow -up to a que stio n asked by the Leader of the Opposition a couple o: weeks age. I would li ke to ask th e minister, in view o: the f~ct that there is only a week or so before the end o! the ?rcvince 's financial year,and bearing in mind that last year the Budget was four or five months late, I wonder if the minister coul d tell us if a definite date has been set for the bring ing down of the Budget? l-!R . SPEAKER: OR. COLLINS: The hon. Minister of F i,nance. Mr . Speaker, r hope in a short while, a day or so, to be able to indicate a specific date. MR . WHITE: A supplementary. MR.

SPEAKER: A SU?plementary. The bon .member for Lewisporte . MR. WHITE: I wonder if the miniscer could tell the House and hopefully relieve 1309

March 20, 1980, Tape 497, Page 1 -- apb MR. WHITE: some of the concern on behalf of the people of Newfoundland, whether or not the government intends to keep its promises and not to increase taxes, or at least some of them? MR. SPEAKER(Simms) : The hon. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speake~, I think the hon. member is referring to a commitment given by the Premier that the - PREMTER PECKFORD: Not me! Not me! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! DR. COLLINS: - a commitment that I have no doubt that the Premier and his government will honour - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! DR.

COLLINS: - that the rate of tax in regard to personal income tax, in regard to retail sales tax and in regard to corporate tax for large corporations - AN HON. MEMBER: Small corporations. DR. COLLINS: Small corporations, I am sorry - for small corporations will not be increased. That was the commitment given. There seems to be some doubt about that on the opposite side,so I will go over it again. The rate of tax for retail sales tax, and for personal income tax, and for corporate tax on small corporations, that these rates will not be increased.

I can give no indication that that commitment will be altered in any way. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. WHITE: MR. SPEAI<ER: the member for Lewisporte~ MR. WHITE: A supplementary. A supplementary. The hon. Mr. Speaker, I think the minister is being very helpful in gi 1Ting us this 1310

• March 20, 1980, Tape 497, Page 2 -- apb MR. WHITE: information. I wonder if he could tell us now as a follow-up ~hat taxes will be increased when the budget comes down? SOME RON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear~ MR. SPEAKER(Sirnrns): ~he han. the Minister of Finance. DR. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, I will be glad to send the hon. merooe r a signed copy of the budget when it is prepared and ready for circulation. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: LaPoile. MR. NEARY: Hear, hear~ The hon. the member for Mr. Speaker, I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Consumer Affairs, Sir.

Will the minister inform the House if the Department of Consumer Affairs and Environment in this Province has received any complaints from senior citizens who have been refused a line of credit with various and sundry companies across this Province, like appliance companies and so forth? And if the minister has received any complaints, would the minister tell the House what is being done about these complaints? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of Consumer Affairs and Environment. MRS. NEWHOOK: Mr.

Speaker, I have not received any such complaints, at least these complaints have not reached my desk and I do get a report of the complaints coming in. So unless there has been s~~ething within the last day or so, I do not think there has been. MR. ~"EARY: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: the member for LaPoile. MR. NEARY: A supplementary. The han. Could the minister tell the House if there is any law or any regulations barring 1 311

· ... ~~ March 20, 1980, Tape 497, Page 3 -- ap~ H:R. NEARY: appliance retai l out le~s and so forth, if t~ere is any law to bar them from discrL~inating against senior citizens and refusing to give senior citizens the same treatnent as they give any other citizen of this Province? MR. SP~~R(Simms): The hon . the Ministe r of Consumer Affairs and Environment . MRS. NEtoffiOOK: \oiell, \ve do have the Trade Practices Act, Mr . Speaker, and if the complaint is made to our Director of Trade Practices, then an investigation can be made into a situatior. of this kind .

If there has been a."'\ unconscionable ac~ion toward the consumer, then it will be pursued. MR. ~~n~Y: A fir.al supplementary, Mr. Speaker. 1312

Mu-ch 20. 1980 MR. SPEA..I(ER (Simms) : member for LaPoile. MR. S. NEARY: Tape 498 EC- 1 A final supplementary, the hon. the I aJil not quite sure if I understood the minister's answer, but anyway, if I have room I will debate it this after­ noon during the Late Show.

But I would like for the hon. the minister - and I will give the hon. the minister a case, by the way, privately, right in her own district where appliance companies and the like around this Province are refusing to treat senior citizens the same as they. treat ordinary citizens because they are not on a payroll - they are not on somebody's payroll, they are not employed - refuse to give them a line of credit. And I will give the hon. the minister a case right in her own district. But I would like to find out if the minister would look into it and see how widespread this is around the Province.

I think this is scandalous. These people have contributed so much to their Province and are being discrimdnated against by these retail outlets. I think the minister should look into it. MR. SPEAKER: and Environment. MRS, H. NEWHOOK: The hon. the Minister of Consumer Affairs Mr. Speaker, I will certainly make inquiries in my department and sea if we have received any such ccmplaints, and if it is so, then it will be looked into and I hope to be able to brinq back a satisfactory reply to the hon. member, MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Port au Port. MR. J. HODDER: Mr.

Speaker, a question for the Minister of Transportation and Colllllllmications Otr. C. Brett). I was wondering if the ailli.ster had any k:newladge of a study COIIIIIIissioned by the former Minister of Transport, Maunk0¥Ui, on the two airports in Western Newfoundland, Deer Lake and Stephenville? MR, SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Transportation and Communications. MR. c. BRE'rl': Yes, I have some knowledqe of it, Mr. Speaker, but I do not know if the report is completed. If it is, I have not racei ved a copy. 1313

1 ,:•. March 20, 1980 ·rape 498 EC - 2 MR. J. HODDER: A supplsaentary, Mr. Speaker·. MR. SPEAKER (Si!DIIIS) : A supplementary , the bon. the member for Port au Port. MR. J. HODDER: It is interesting that the minister says thilt he has some knowledge of it, but yet does not know why the report was commissioned. It i.s my understanding, Mr. Speaker, that the report was commissioned by Trangport Canada officials in view of phasing down one. of the airports.

ADd I can tell the minister now that the report is now c:ompleted and that some of the recommendations - although I have nat seen the report, I have talked to people who have seen the report - that some of the recommendations are not necessarily to the benefit of either one of the airports. Would the minister care to comment en this? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of 'l.'ranspor't.ation and Communications. MR. C. BRE'l"l': I have not seen the report, so,obvicusly, I cannot c:CIIIIIIIent on it at this time. I would rather wait until I see it. MR. J. HODDER: A supplementary. MR.

SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the hon. the member for Port au Port. MR. J. HODDER: Would the minister undertake to find out, since it is in his ambit - however, it is now going to the federal government on the political level - would the minister undertake to make some representation to see that some of the implications in this report, which I understand are to withdraw funding from one or the other airports - MR. W. MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER: of the Council. MR. W. MARSHALL: A point of order, Mr. Spe.aker. A point of order, the hon. the President This is the Question Period.

The hon. member asked the minister whether or not he has seen the report. He has not, and the hon. member now is just making a statement of what he perceives to be in the report. You know, this is a Question Period, it is not a aebating period. MR. E. ROBERTS: To that point of order. 1314

!'larch 20, 1980 Tape 498 EC - 3 MR. SPEAlCER. (Simms) : To the point ~f order. the hon. the lllelllber . for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. E. ROBER.:rS: I would say to my learned friend. first of a.ll that he ouqht tQ heed . the old ad&qe that people who ll ve in qraas hv.ts sho\ll.d not stow thrones when he says · this is not a debat,inq period. 1 31 5

;,"A::f~·' ~ March 20, 1980 Tape No. 499 SD - 1 MR. E. ROBERTS : Secondly, my friend from Port o.u Port (Mr. J. Hodder) is not transgressing the bounds which Your Honour has laid down with clarity and precision on any number of occasions. He is simply trying to identify the areas in the report with '~hich ~= is concerned and I do not t!linlt that is improper. 'lhe minister has been very co-operative and I would su~gest to my friend from St. John's East (Mr. w. Marshall) there is no point of order.

He ought to let his colleague, the minister, get on with the answer because I am sure his colleague, as always, will do what he can to try to help. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): With respect to the point of order 1I would rule that there is no point of order at this particular time. My understanding of the question is that the hen. member has asked the minister to make representation 1or words to that effect,and I believe the question has been asked. If the hen. minister wishes to respond 1he may. MR. C. BRETT: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: 'l'he hen. Minister of Transportation and Co11111unications. MR. C.

BRETT: When I see the report,obviously if there are matters of concern there then I will malte my concerns known to the federal minister. MR. SPEAKER: The hen. membe~ for Terra Nova. MR. T. LUSH: Mr . Speaker, I want to direct a question to the Minister of Labour and Manpower (Mr. J. Dinnl and it is in relationship to a decision made by the Newfoundland and Labrador Labour Relations Board in terms of approving the application by the Seafarers International Union to represent workers on offshore supply vessels,and I might say this is a decision that we on this side of the House agree with in total.

The matter of concern is the fact that there were several companies objecting to this particular ruling and in view of the fact, Sir, that these companies, by their own admission, have benefited from the provincial government 1316

1"1 March 20, 1980 Tape No. 499 SD - 2 MR. T. LUSH: regulations, I am wondering ~f the minister would care to comment on this particular situation? MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. J. DINN: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for asking the question. Number one, just to clarify what the Labour Relations Board ruled on, they did not rule on whether the SIU can represent 1or they did not rule whether they certified the SIU as a representative of employees offshore.

What they did do was rule that they were capable of ruling on such an application if the application did come in. What has happened to this point in time is that the SIU applied for certification and then dropped their application,or requested the Labour Relations Board to drop their application,which the Labour Relations Board conceded to do. In the meantime, it was contended to the Labour Relations Board that they did not have authority to rule on whether the SIU or any other union could be certified by them and submissions were 11!llde by the SIU and several companies.

The Labour Relations Board ruled 1 rightfully so, that, number one, since the Province owned 1 controlled and had jurisdiction over the offshore with respect to mineral exploration etc., that they had jurisdiction over ruling whether they can or can not certify unions who make applications 1317

"{ . :~,> March 20, 1980 Tape No. 500 EL - 1 MR. J. OINN: for certification. So right now there is no application before the Labour Relations Board that I am aware of to have a union certified. The only ruling that has been made is that the Labour Relations Board has jurisdiction. MR. T. LUSH: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : for Terra Nova. MR. T. LUSH: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. the member Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister for his answer in terms of what the Labour Relations Board ruling was but the minister did not get down to the crux of the question.

And the JU.tter of c:oncem, as I have said before, is the matter of sever;al C:O~~i>i!Ues, Newfoundland colli'anies objecting to the ruling.

And knowing the government's position, this is what I find unfort­ unate in this matter. so again, the question to the minister is, in view of the fact that these compaaies presumably are operating under the government regulations, what effect is this having with respect to go-rnment intentions that these Newfoundland C:OIIi'anies in particular, have demonstrated that they oppose or reject the decision made by the Newfoundland Labour Board, the N-founciland and Labrador Labour Board? MR. SPEAXER (Silt'aiiS) : Manpower. MR. J. D:INN: The hon. the Minister of L~ur and Mr.

Speaker, with respect to the hon. member's question, r de not know if he hu seen a c:opy of the application or the ruling, and h;u the hon. member received a :::opy? Well, what the hon. member should do. _is receive a copy to see what proposals -re made by the Seafarerlt International Union as an applicant in Zapata Marine Service£.• r...;.u.o:pcrated of Houston, ~exa.s as the respond­ ant, and what the different ccapanie• had to say in their proposals. But I - not particularly upset with any c:ompanie .g or any union as a reS'&lt .of the application. r think what we Mve dona is brought 1316

March 20, 1980 Tape No. 500 EL - 2 MR. J. DINN: something before the Labour Relations Board and we have a very clear understanding now by the Labour Relations Board and by people in Newfoundland, by companies in ~ewfoundland, as to who rules when an application comes in. I am happy with the ruling and I have no qualms with any of the companies for presenting a particular case on either side of the argument. r was quite happy with the ruling. I was also quite happy and quite assured in my mind that this was the ruling that they would come up with.

There was no other ruling they could come up with since I Ul fil:lllly convinced in my mind that we own, control and have jurisdiction over the offshore. So the Labour Relations Board came out with a decision that:I concur with and agree with and am happy with. AN. BON. MEMBER: MR. T. LUSH: MR. SPEAKER ( SiiiUIIS) : for Terra Nova. ~tlt. T. LUSH: Hear, Hear! A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. the member I thank the minister again for his ans-r and of course thAt is where we stand on the points that he raised. Bu~ again the fact that - MR. SPEAXER (Siiiii!IS) : Order, please l Order, please!

MR. W. MARSHALL: On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, I cannot hear the question myself. MR. SPEAXER (Simms): I thank the hon. the !resident~= of the Council. I have difficulty hearing him myaelf. I have asked the pages i£ they would be a little 1110re quiet in passing out that statement. A supplemental:y, tha han. the Mesl:ler for ~rra Nova. MR. T. LUSH: Again, Mr. Speaker, referring back to the fact th&t these coapanies are supposedly operating under the Provincial government 1319

March 20, 1980 Tape No. 501 DW - 1 ~R. T. LUSH: regulations and now that we have this particular position where they ara opposing the ruling made by the Newfoundland and .Labrador Labour Relations Boara,is there any indication that these companies are rejecting or not abiding by the regulations in other areas as set out by the provincial governmer.t,particularly as it relates to local preference? MR. SPEAKER (Simmsl: and Manpower. MR. J. DINN: The han. Minister of Labour Mr. Speaker ·, I can answer the local preference side of it with respect to labour offshore.

For ezample 1 the respondent in this case was Zapata Marine services who did the hiring for,I believe ~oco 706 was the last rig that went out there,and we have a list of all the employees who were hired off there and they concurred 100 per cent with the regulations with respect to Newfound­ landers being hired offshore in places where they could possibly be hired, where we had people to fill the p~ai- • - tions. They have concurred, as I say, 100 per cent with the regulations. MR. T. LUSH: MR. SPEAKER: for Terra Nova, A supplementa;y, Mr. Speaker, A supplementary, the hon. member MR. T.

LBSR: For clarification, Mr. Speaker, more than a question: The minister is saying that these comp~nies are abiding by the regulations.! am jaat wondering whether there ia not some reference in the regulation stating Newfoundland's position with respect to jurisdiction. In other words,~does it state that the government have juris­ diction up to 200 miles or over 200 miles 'or whatever. Is there any~2eference made to that in the regulations? 1320

·. 1"'1- March 20, 1980 Tape No. 501 ow - 2 MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. Minister of Labour and Manpower. MR. J. DINN: Mr. Speaker, with respect to the regulations,the most important

part cf the regu­ lations that I concern myself with is with respect to preferential treatment to hiring Newfoundlanders off- shore. And I see to it that the companies follow the regulations to the nth degree and I make sure that they do not hire somebody from outside where we have New- foundlanders who can fill the jobs. Now whether we should state the obvious in the regulations,! am not sure whether we should or should not.

The fact of the matter is is that everybody, the companies, the unions, ~veryone whom I have spoken to or have had to have any dealings with agree with the regulations, have accepted the regulations and are following the regulations 1 and that is the important thing. MR. S. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, Mr. Speaker; Does the hon. ·member for Windsor - Buchans (Mr. Flight)- wish to yield for the supplementary of the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary)? MR. PL.IGEI~: Yes. MR. S. NEARY: The hon. gentleman in his answer keeps referring to =oil companies.

Now what about all of these companies-and I believe there are seven or eight of them moved in here in the last week or so,in~ eluding one that moved into Springdale - that are not oil companies that service the offshor~ rigs, companies that are coming :in here from the mainland and Europe shielding behind local companies and so forth; who polices them and who sees that they hire Newfoundlanders and buy Newfoundland material? Does the minister have a watch- dog in his department to keep an eye on these companies that are hiding behind Newfoundland firms and are hiring who they like 13 21

"( f· -~ March 20 , 1980 Tape No. 502 NM- l MR. NEARY: where they like? MR. WHITE: A good question. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : The hon. Minister cf Labour and Manpower. MR. DINN: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of anybody who is hiding behind anything. The hon. member seems to want to look under mats and behind doors, looking for people who are hiding behind or - SO~!E BON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR.

DINN: - peeping through keyholes, There is nobody in the department who is going around peeping into ~1ybody's keyhole or anything like that but the fact of the matter ls, unless the hon. member has something that he - some evidence that he can present to my department - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. DINN: - I have an employment officer in my department, and I have very competent people in my department who.keeF track cf everything that is going on with respect tc - SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. DINN: - employment offshore. That I see is my job and that job is being well done.

SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Windsor-Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, my question is for the hon.Minister of Mines and Energy. He will recall tr4t he set vut a policy in this House for this fiscal year that there would be - he named communities that would be coming off, that would 1stop receiving their hydro services by diesel generated power, that Newfoundland Hydro would extend the hyrdo lines from the grid into various communities this year and take those communi ties off of diesel.

At the_ time when he made his statement he identified the communities that that would indeed happen to this year and he named other communities that would receive that 1322

March 20, 1980 Tape No. 502 NM - 2 !<'.R. FLIGHT: kind of activity over the next three or four years. would the minister indicate if the towns that he indicated that would indeed receive hydro this year, if that has in fact been done to this point? MR. SPEAKER {Simms) : MR. BARRY: The hen. Minister of Mines and Energy. Mr. Spea.ker, all of the inter-ties may not have been completed but it is my understanding that the ones where we indicated work would commence,that the work has either commenced or will commence before year end.

And with respect to future inter-ties, this will be a budgetary matter which will be revealed when the budget comes out. MR. SPEAKER: A supplementary, the hen. member for Windsor-Buchans. MR. FLIGHT: Yes, Mr. Speaker, I wonder if because it has no effect on the budget,really. The sequence of which towns are done in which year really does not make any difference, the cost analysis has been done anyway from a budgetary point of view, I wonder if the minister would indicate if a decision has been made as to what communities will come next in the programme? MR. SPEAKER: \ The hon. Minister of Mines and Energy. MR.

BARRY: Mr. Speaker, I just mentioned that this is a budgetary decision. Every year government has to decide how much money can be spent on grid inter-ties, hooking up now isolated systems to the hyrdo grid. It is usually cost efficient, you usually save dollars by doing that, but you incur heavy capital costs, so it is always a question of to what extent can you rob Peter to pay Paul. And to the greatest extent possible we want to see these inter-ties completed as soon as possible but the numbe~3 that we will be able to do this year will be identified in the budget. MR. FLIGHT: A final supplementary. MR.

SPEAKER: A final supplementary, the han. member for Windsor-Buchans. 1323

!!'.arch 20, 198 0 Tape No. 502 NM - 3 MR. FLIGHT: Would the minister indicate whethe .r or r.ot there is a priority system:? You know, in the fifteen communities that are presently serviced by diesel power at greater cost paying an enormously higher cost for their electricity than the normal town that is serviced by hydro, will the minister indicate whether there is a priority, if those fifteen towns are identified by way of priority as to which ones comes off the diesel source first? 1324

\ March 20, 1980, Tape 503, Page 1 -- apb MR. SPEAKER (Si rnm s): Mines and Energ y . MR. BARRY: The hon. the Hinister of Hr. Speaker, attempts are made to try and identify just how much money would be saved government yearly by hooking up each system. I might add that there are some systems - some diesel will never, in our lifetime anyhow, be able to be hooked up to the ~ydro grid because they are too far away from the grid and the capital cost would be too great. But 1 yes, an attempt is made to identify where the greatest savings could be made each year.

And this is taken into consideration in making the decision as to which inter-ties to proceed with. Where will you get your capital pay-back fastest? Where will the most dollars be saved, roost of the taxpayers' dollars be saved? MR. SPEAI<ER: the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS: The hon. the member for Mr. Speaker, we will come back to that another time because,like my friend from Windsor- Buchans (Mr. Flight),I have a number of communities that are - in fact, all of the communities in my district are on diesel. But I should like to ask a question of the Minister of Fisheries.

I would hate to see a whole Question Period go by without giving the minister an opportunity to display his undoubted talents. I would like to ask him about the proposed fish plant ··in the community of St. Barbe - St. Barbes, if one wishes in my district, the proposed plant to be built, as the minister knows, by T.J.Hardy Limited and by the Nickerson interests. MR. NEARY: A good man,boy. --- ~- - MR. ROBERTS: Yes, Mr. Hardy is 13 2.5

~:· ·1 I March 20, 1980, Tape 503, Page 2 -- apb MR. ROBERTS: a good man. For a moment I thought my friend was speaking of the minister. I could not quite believe my ears. SOME RON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. NEARY: I am not speaking of Nickersons either. MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the minister if he could tell us the position that he or the a&~iuistration of which he is such an important part have taken with respect to this proposal? MR. SPE~~R(Simms): The hon. the Minister of Fisheries. MR. MORGAN: Mr.

Speaker, it was only yesterday that - no, I am sorry, the say before yesterday that I met with the Nickerson company. Of course, Nickerson being National Sea now, they control both companies, and we discussed with the company a number of their proposals they have now, and plans they have for new plants and new plant extensions in the Province, one of them being, in this case, St. Barbe. There has been some concern expressed by Fishery Products operating at St. Anthony with the possible effects that the new plant at St. Barbe will have on ~~eir operation in St.

Anthony, based on the fact that some fish will be, in the plans for St. Barbe, transported from the Labrador coast to the plant at St. Barbe; that is the plan of Nickersons. So in discussing with the company yesterday, they indicated now that they are awaiting a reply from DREE they have applied for DREE assistance. We put forward our views on the plant to DREE as requested by the federal department. Our only concern was tha effect it would have on existing operations in the area, as I meantioned, one being the plant at St. Anthony, Fishery Products. 1326

March 20, 1980, Tape 503, Page 3 -- apb MR. MORGAN: But we were convinced in talking with Nickersons that they are determined primarily to get their raw material supply, their fish supply from the feeder plants in the general surrounding area. So based on that information we have no objections to the proposed new plant at St. Barbe. MR. SPEAKER(Simms): The time for 1327

... ~: March 20,1980 MR. SPEAKER (Simms) MR. ROBERTS: MR. SPEAKER: SOME BON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: of Belle Isle. MR. ROBERTS: Tape No. 504 AH-1 Oral Questions has expired. May I ask a question by leave? By leave? By leave. The han. member for the Strait I will be brief. The minister's answer is most welcome and he has anticipated the question that I was going to ask so I will not need to ask .as to what the government had done. Will the minister lay upon the table of the House copies of the communications to DREE,because I think it is important to know exactly what has been said.

And I agree with the tenor of what the minister has said, that I think this plan should go ahead provided it does not threaten either St. Anthony or Port au Choix and I see no evidence it will. MR. SPEAKER: MR. MORGAN: The han. Mini~ter of Fisheries. No, Mr.

Speaker, I will not lay it on the table because ,you understand 1 the reason being I would not lay it on the table at this time is because it is ongoing negotiations between the company concerned, in this case Nickerson's 1and DREE. lt i~ not the depart~ent and DREE, it is ongoing negotiations between the company and DREE and until these negotiations are finalized it may ba incorrect to make public any information involving these negotiations. The time for Oral Questions MR. SPEAKER: has expired. I would like to welcome to the gallery a former member of this han.

House, Mr. :.el Woodward,who,I believe has just slipped out. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Also another former member has been brought to my attention by the Minister of Justice, 1326

~ March 20 1980 ':Cape Nv. 504 AR-2 MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS): (Mr. Ottenheimer), Mr. wilson Callan. SOME HON.MEMBERS: Hear, hear! ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS FOR W!HCH NOTICE HAS BEEN GIVEN MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Justice. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Burgeo-LaPoile (Mr.Neary) asked me a question yesterday, it will take a couple of days before I can - AN HON. MEMBER: Which one? MR. OTTENHEIMER: LaPoile - it will take a couple of days before I can give an ~nswer on that. The hon. member for Grand Bank (Mr.

Thoms) also asked a question which I can refer to and that dealt with alleged incidents during a hockey game in Gander last weekend. The department has made enquiries with respect to that, those alleged incidents last Saturday. AppaLently it took place during pre-game warm-up and members of both teams were involved and apparently there was also a certain amount of at least rowdiness 1 or what is described in front of me here as a small fight at the end of the third period. The information that we have does not suggest that it is a situation that would warrant a prosecution for assault.

I would say that obviously the department is concerned about violence in hockey and certainly would 1 if situations warranted it, if the situation required it, we certainly would not hesitate from prosecutions if that were warranted. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister of Health. MR. BOUS.E_:_ Mr. Speaker, there was a question yesterday or a series of questions from the member for St. Mary's- The Capes (Mr.&~}:, followed up by the Leader of the Oppositiontregarding a possible tuberculosis outbreak in the district of St. Mary's-The Capes. First of all,I just want to make this statement, to state flatly 1329

!-larch 20,1980 Tape :.~o. 504 ~H-3 ~!R. MOOSE: that there is no tuberculosis outbreak or epidemic in that dis~rict. I jus t want to point out as a prelicinary to i~ that in the Province in any on ey ear there are approximately one hundred cases . These cases are through a number of communities and identified 1 and • lo t of th ese are cases wtdch have been active perhaps t~enty or thirty year ago and they recur . from t4me to ti~e. There have been four cases identified in three different commu nit ies ; they are not necessarly related, they are all under control and are being properly treated.

The doctor who is lookLng after this, of course, is the doctor in charge o~ tuberculosis in the Province, 0~. Kno wlin g, and she reports quarterly to the department and only if there are serious outbreaks. The kind of a thing that I mentioned yesterday in Daniel's Barbour was the case in point where everyone would be made aware because o: the .perhaps,irnpending epidemic. The other thing, I think, 1330 7 '

March 20, 1980 Tape 505 EC - 1 MR. W. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, the reason for r~t making all this known is there is no necessity of alarming people because everything was under control. So I would like to have the House rest assured that it is controlled and being actively treated. MR. s. NEARY: Great excuses for not talking about it. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please~ The hon. the Minister of La.bo= and Manpower. MR. J. DINN: Mr. Speaker, could I have leave to just revert to Presenting Reports? This is a report of the - MR. SPEAKER: By leave? SOME RON. MEMBERS : By leave • MR. SPEAKER: Agreed. MR. J.

DINN: It is a report of 111atters transacted during 1979 by the Minister of Labour and Manpower with respect to the Labour Relations Act, Public Service Collective B~gaining Act, Fishing Industry (Collective Bargaining) Act, Newfoundland Teachers (Collective Bargaining) Act, nport of the Wbour StandArds Board and report of the Newfou.."ldland and Labrador Labour Relations Bo~d. PRESENTING PETITIONS MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the lllelllber for Fortune - Hermitage. SOME BON. MEMBERS : Hear, haa.r! MR. D. STEWART: Mr. Speaker, I rise to present a petition on behalf of 1,231 voters in my district.

The prayer of the petiti011 reads as follows: aWhereaa the roads from the following coamunities, Seal Cove, Ber!Utage, Sandyville, Wra::keove, COOIIIb 's Cove, Bozey, Mcse Alllbrcse, English Barbour West, St. Jacques, Belleoram and Pool' • Co'ile are dirt roads, and wbe~s the level of upgradinq since their original construction has been very lllinilllal and in most cases nil, and

whereas the present condition of the roads are deplorable, the undersigned, in conjunction with the South Coast Reqional Development Association, do hereby propose that government ensure that sufficient funds ~• a.lloeatad for eztenaive upgrading 1331

f:, March 20, 1980 Tape 505 EC - 2 MR. D. STEWART: and paving of the above roads during ~~e next construction season." In supporting the petition, Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that I have travelled over the roads in question constantly over the past ten years when I was Co-ordinator with the South Coast Regional Development Association. These roads, Mr. Speaker, are indeed very narrow with very dangerous turns and really no top at all to grade. The co~~munities involved are all fishing co111111unities in my district and depend heavily upon this dirt road for their transportation.

Fish is collected d~ily along this road, and also, Mr. Speaker, children are bused daily fro~ seven of these communities to English Harbour West for high school, and the condition of the roads are very dangerous, especially during this ~e of year. Also, Mr. Speaker, loggers from Seal Cove use this road continuously. So, Mr. Speaker, I would like for this petition to be placed on the table of the House and refe.-red to the de~ent it concerns. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Placentia West. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. D. HOLI.E'rr: Hear, hear! The hon. the member for Burin - Hear, hear! Mr.

Speaker, it is with pleasure that I would like to support this petition, knowing the area quite well, knowing a lot of people who live there and the trials and tribulations which they have gone through over the past number of years trying to commute daily to work, as outlined by the hon. member.- the problems they have all year round. In particulAr, I would like to refer to the Wi.ntert~e. That road, or by far the majority of it, Mr.

Speaker, is not even in fit coodition for the type of equip111ent which the Department of Highways has located to snow clear, in places so narrow that the operators find it very difficult ev.n to keep a machine on the road. It is an area. that, in many cases, the cart has been put before the hone, in particular in the educational field. As has been outllaed, the area is reqionali&ed, supposedly for the better.ent of the students aDd better facilities, but that is little good if the students, th&mselves, are not able to get to their facilities pretty much on a regular 1332

·t March 20, 1980 Tape 505 EC - 3 MR. D • aoLLE'l"l' : basis , and c:ertd.nl.y, during the last two months, I am sure there were thousands of school days l9st. Probably more important, Mr. Speaker, for the fUture of ~t are.& - an4 it is aJ1 area in this Province that has been b&dly neqlected - if the ~tential for growth is ever to be achieved, because o~ the 9'eotJr4pby of the area, then certainly, I think it sboul~ be a priority with the qovermaent that il!mec!iately work beqin on up;radinq an4 eventual paving of those roads. SOME I!Otf. liEMBERS: Hear, hear! ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. W. MARSHALL: Order ll , Bill No, 13, 1333

March 20, 1980 Tape No. 506 so - l MR. G. O'l"l'ENHEIMER : Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) MR. G. OTTENHEIMER: The hon. Minister of Justice. If I may, I was not here at the opening and I wish to draw to the attention of non . members that yesterday at Government House seven members of the Newfoundland Bar were invested, I think that is the correct tem, as Queen's Counsel and among those seven were two hon. members of this hon. House and I am sure all melllhers would wish me to express their congratulations to both gentlemen. They are the hon. member for Mount Scio and Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. L.

Barry) and the member for the Strait of Belle Isle and Boase Leader for the Opposition (Mr. E. Roberts). And certainly we extend congratulations to both hon. and learned gentlemen. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. SPEAKER: of Belle Isle. MR. E. l<OBERTS : Hear, hear. The hon. member for the Strait Mr. Speaker, I know I speak for my colleagues on this side and I say we are not prepared to give leave for this statement. SOME BON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. E.

ROBERTS: A little more seriously, I would like to thank the minister both on 'll1i'f own behalf and on behalf of his absent colleague who was at Government House yesterday. And I want to say that we much appreciated the commission the minister drew 1particularly the words in it that referred to 'profits' and 'emollJIIents' • There was some considerable comment on that and all concerned were very gratified but I would thank the minister for his kind words. And u his colleague vould tell him/ the single us out downtown if he needs advice free. MR. S.

NEARY : I am going to be an honourary member of the Bar first. 1334

' flt March20, 1980 Tape No. 506 so - 2 ORDERS OF THE DAY MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Motion, the hon. the Minister of Labour and Manpower to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend And Consolidate The Law Respecting Boilers, Pressure Vessels And Compressed Gas," carried.(Bill No. 29) On motion, Bill No. 29 read a first time 1 ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Motion, the hon. the Minister of Labour and Manpower to introduce a bill, "An Act Respecting Amusement Rides," carried (Bill No. 31) on motion, Bill No. 31 read a first time ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Public Works and Services to introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Department Of Public Works And services Act, 1973 With Pespect To Government Printing," carried. (Bill No. 9) On motion, Bill No. 9 read a first time ordered read a second time on tomorrow. Motion, the hon. the Minister of Industrial Development to introduce a bill, "An Act To Ratify, Confirm And Adopt An l\mendinq Aqreement Entered Into Between The Government And Burqeo Fish Industries Limited And Others," carried. (Bill No. 30) On motion, Bill No. 30 read a first time ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

Motion, the hon. the Minister of Mines and Energy to introduce 11 bill, !'An Act To .!\mend The Mineral Act, 1976," carried. (Bill No. 8) On motion, Bill No. 8 read a first time ordered read a second time on tomorrow. 1335

,_ March 20, 1980 Tape No. 506 SD - 3 Motion, second reading of a bill, "An Act To Protect The Environment Of The Province By Providing For Environmental Assessment~. (Bill No. 13) MR. SPEJ\KER (Simms) : The han. member for Torngat Mountains. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. 1336

f March 20, 1980 Tape No. 507 DW - 1 MR. G. WARREN: Mr. Speaker. first I would like to take the opportunity of congratulating the minister in brinqinq in a lonq overdue Bill for the Province. This Bill should have been brought in years ago.&nd what I am going to speak on in the next twenty or twenty-five minutes was to qet some indication how companies have gone ahead and tore up land in this Province of ours without any environmental assess- ment control whatsoever. I am going to speak this evening, Mr. Speake!!; on the exploration activities of BRINEX in the Kitts-Michelin area in coastal Makkovik. Mr.

Speaker, in the month;of December the provinei~l government undertook to have a - let us see nov; the best word to use is probably meetings with all the people concerned, where people from all along Labrador and other groups to express their concerns to gove=n- ment concerning why BRINEX should not qo ahead with any develop- ment of the uranium project - RR. S. NEARY: That is the Powell Inquiry, is it not? MR. G. W.llRREN: Yes, this is the Powell Inquiry I think Mr. Clarence Powell was the Chairman 1and Rev. Francis Buckle and Mr. Davis.

I am sure that onee the financial figure is released the cost of this ~eport is going to cost probably in the vicinity of maybe sso.~oo. So if this environment - - - --- -- ---- assessment review was into effect, I am pretty well sure that this process that happened in December would not necessarily be essential.

Mr, Speaker, if one had the oppor- tunity 1 I am sure that many of us in the Bouse of Assembly and many of us in the Province of Newfoundland on the Island ~ portion do not know whatd1.as gone on in this area during the past several yea~•, what d•struction has taken place without any or very little control. Mr. Speaker, I have taken the 1337

March 20, 1980 Tape No. 507 ow - 2 MR. G. WARREN: liberty of going through the last report that BRINEX submitted to government, the Environmental Impact Statement. Now I am going to go through this piece by piece and show that there has been a lot of things done and a~lot of things planned without any environmental bills whatsoever. On page 17 of the report BRINEX is mentioning that a lime kiln will be built in an appropriate industrial park of Happy Valley - Goose Bay and it is going to be shipped in from the Island in the form of lime. Mr.

Speaker, it goes on to say that from Goose Bay it will be trucked to Michelin on the road that is p~oposed to be built from Happy Valley - Goose Bay - Northwest River to Micheli~· It is going to be trucked and it is going to be in the form of sulphuric acid.

Now we know that this chemical is a bit dangerous and what will happen if midway between Northwest River and Michelin somewhere around one~of the large rivers there that this truck en­ counters mechanical trouble and is left there for a period of time and the road is accessible to hunters, is access­ ible to tourists,is there going to be any danger if any spills occur from this vehicle that is transportin~ this sulphuric acid? Mr. Speaker, first BRINEX was planning to use large ships to come up through ~aipokok Ba7Y right 1338

March 20, 1980 Tape No. SOB EI. - 1 MR. G. WARREN: up within 150 feet of the c:ommunity of Postville. Now this later was scrapped to use the port of Goose Bay and ship it by road, which is probably the lesser of t.a ev·ils. But all through this report, Mr. Speaker, Brinex is trying to give in to the people. What they are trying to do here is not to convince the government because the people were the ones who were really kicking up. They were the people in Postville and Makkovik that really stirred Brinex, that really fought like God knows what to get Brinex to coae in with better regulations.

It was not this government. It was the people that probably convinced the government, it was the people thelllSell'!es that vent time and tiale again to Brinex to JUke sure that stronger regulations were brought into~force and as a consequence of this, the inquiry that we had in December, the goverJ~aent instituted an inquiry in December, but it vas pressure from the people. And right throughout this report, Mr. Speaker, Brinex is saying penait requirements will be necessary to start the project.

And they are saying that they ha"Ve not received any okay from c;overnment, but still and all, before this inquiry, before this latest book was published, they were ready to start to- morrow :acrninq. Mr. Speaker, on the road .c;oinq froa Northwest Ri Yer to Michelin, they have to cross the Canairiktok River, now I think my pronounciation may be a wee bit off, but tbe Canairiktok River is -where between Northwest Riftr. ADd Michelin. Row I aa sure the hoD. -.ber fzoa Illasltaupi vUl- coaect -. 011 II! proDCunciation of the riYer.

An:iPW, this dYer - I 'IIOal.d like to quote what they say here - •su.:.uoid fishes aigr~• . .ing u:p river to IIP&Wn in the S~r ~ - ::.:. c:: ~ ud Pall stages before the rapids.'' 'l'bi.a is a Yery, very vital riftr that the fiaherlll!n alo:~og the Coaat 1out in lllorth-at Ri"Nr ADd Riqolet 1339

~- March 20, 1980 Tape No. 508 EL- 2 MR. G. w.\Rl!EN : that the fish go up this river to spawn. Now, if there is going to be a."'ly distraction from this river­ bed, if there is going to be any not strong enough requl~tions im­ posed, wh~t will happen? Eventu.lly, t:lm or three ye~rs down the road, those fishermen that h~ve to depend on fish that are going back and forth in this river to spawn will be left without a huf decent way to IIIAic.e ~ reasonable living. Mr. Speaker, there are 1110re brooks between the Montagnais Point and the Can air ik tok Bay.

Now, and it says here uso in this p~raqraph, 11 this area provides excellent spawning and rearing habitants for salmonoid species,especially brook trout." You know, Brinex is saying, they are saying throughout this report that,you know, we are going to have to cross these rivers and they are excellent spa~ning areas. So, you know, they were aware of their facing many, many dangers by having this road constEUcted from Northwest River and Michelin. " (inaudible) fishing in this brook. yield a very high density of brook trout fry and yearings" and it does not say any other species.

But these ·are in the Spring of the year, and I am sure my hon. melllber from Nasbupi(J. Goudie) can verify this, ~t in the spring of the year from April, ~y and June before the ice leaves the bays, many people from Goose Bay, Northwest River and Riqo2et travel up azound those rivers and this is wbere they get their supply of fresh trout fac: :.~e Spring of the year. ADd all of a s~~~n, if we are not cariful, this is going to be all destroyed. Mr. Speaker, on page 24, Brinex, when they are discussing the tributaries for the Sebasltachu River and th';'!

"'!'~ talking about the sa.bo11. and the trout run, and they &a!' this poses two potential problems for road construction and bridrJe 1340

i f :~ .., 'lilt I i J If§ I 'Qi G : .. , "d I >m l w- ~ a d ~ jl ' j lot ) ~' i' 1 i i a:o I s: ... 0 il l "' i - . ' 1». Ai 8 i ..- :s , ...:r Ql i I Cf') 0. "' i ~ f-t 'S I := .:t ~ I I _J I •· ! -u ft ;~ ""' I 1 I o· ! .. ·' c. z ... ~ Jt I ~ i 8 ·-~ 3' . I ~ Cl I :1 I ~ J ' 1

-"- March 20, 1980, Tape 509, Page 1 -- apb MR. WARREN: of migratory fish concentration below the first rapids. Now what they are saying there is that if they open up this road - there is virgin wilderness at the present time - every person who wants to go fishing, any person who wants to go into the countryside will go in there. And what will happen in two or three years time? I will tell the hon. minister what will happen: exactly what is happening today on the old Cabot Highway between Little Harbour in Placentia Bay and Southern Harbour.

I will tell you what is happening: If the hon. minister would go down there today he would see that three miles of road ruinedwitheverything from garbage buckets to salt bags to rotten squid to rotten fish. Everything that you can talk about is strewn on that piece of highway. And this is exactly what would happen if this road is kept open, everything would be thrown on there. So this is why this environmental bill needs to be imposed almost immediately. Mr. Speaker, another concern with the opening up of b~e road from North West River to Michelin is that in years gone by wildlife, caribou was existing there.

And although today - I think in the last report there was one caribou sighted in this area but that does not mean that in years to come the caribou is not going to revert to this came hunting ground. Mr. Speaker, what will happen to the trapiines, the simple traplines in this exact same area? There is a trap line just inside Kaipokok Bay. What will happen to guys who today are making $6,0QO or $7,000 on their furs when people will go in there and completely disrupt the traplines~ It is environmentally safe if there is no one there 1 but once anyone goes there naturally the environment is stirred 1342

March 20, 1980, Tape 509, Page 2 -- apb MR. WARREN: up and it is going to cause problems. What I find sc amazing, Mr. Speaker, about this report is that BRINEX, in almost every second paragraph, mention about the danger, they mention there is danger. And they say the greatest potential impact is from road hunters. BRINEX say this themselves. MR. GOUDIE: MR. WARREN: MR. GOUDIE: MR. WARREN: That is destroying - What was the biggest danger? I beg your pardon? What was the big danger? The biggest danger is the impact from road hunters. BRINEX are saying this themselves,so they know.

They already knew when they compiled this that it was environmentally unsafe because you are destroying the countryside. Mr. Speaker, I was going to mention land claims but I think that will come up under a different heading altogether. BRINEX is saying that the Arctic char - now, people living in Labrador, some of us living in Newfoundland know that one of the best fish that ever carne out of the water is the Arctic char. Now, the Arctic char - MR. THOMS: Next to a salmon. MR. WARREN: No, it is much better than salmon. I am sure that the hon. member for Naskaupi (Mr.

Goudie) will agree with me, it is much, much better than a salmon. And not until you have lived in Labrador for several years will you find out the difference. Mr. Speaker - --- ·-a- MR. THOMS: Provide some samples. MR. WARREN: Okay, the next time I come back from Labrador I will bring back some samples - I am sure my colleague from Naskaupi will agree - and we will 1343

\ ~I March 20, 1980, Tape 509, Page 3 -- apb MR. 11ARRE..ll! : let you all try it. AN HON • MEMBER : MR . I'IARREN : too, right. f.ffi. ROBERTS: he will bring char. MR . THOMS : bring some back and (Inaudible) . We will remember that You bring salmon and Either/or . MR . NARREN: Mr. Speaker, BRINEX even mentioned this delicious food, Arctic char . They say Arctic char inhabit MacLean La'<:e and utilize it for spawning, rearing and overwintering. If any of us know the MacLean Lake 1344

:- "( March 20, 1980 Tape No. 510 NM - 1 MR. WARREN: !f any of us know the map of Labrador, we know that MacLean Bay is probably in an airplane front Postville, Makkovik right inside both co~munities pretty well. Now the tributaries from MacLean Lake, some of them come out through Kaipokok Bay and others come on out further down the coastline. Now, we have Arctic char go up into MacLean Lake. Now a little later on in my speech I am going to mention that BRINEX is planning to build a big dam, they are planning to build a dam in there. And this is going to stir up the travel habits of Arctic char.

What will happen to the Arctic char that every year since eternity has been going up to ~~cLean Lake and coming down in the Spring, going up and coming down in the Spring? What is goL~g to happen to the fishermen along that

section of the coast? Arctic char today, Mr. Speaker, is roughly thirty to forty per cent of the fish caugi1t in this area. And all of a sudden,if we are not careful,it is going to be destroyed. l'.!'!_ !f9!'. MEMBER: What about the whitefish? MR. WARREN: l'lhat about the whitefish? Probably the member for Naskaupi (Mr. Goudie) could answer that one. But whitefish has nothing to do with the char whatsoever. It is a different species altoge~~er. And you will find it more in the Northwest Territories than you would in Labrador. AN HON. MEMBER: IVhitefish - MR.

WARREN: There is a whitefish but it is not in connection with the Arctic char. ~~: AN HON. MEMBER: MR. WARREN: A lot better to look at than you are. Come over and have a chat. Mr. Speaker, on page forty-two BRINEX says •:I ... i.. .:ffluent from the Michelin concentrator- now this was where the project starts. Before I was talking about the road going into Kitts-Michelin and now I am going on - okay, BRINEX is ready to start. They are started. Now the effluent from the Michelin concentrator will be pumped to a waste management area where solids are 1345

:-larch 20, 1980 Tape No. 510 N~l - 2 l•!R . WA...'t.~N : settled out . The effluent is ~reaced wi~h lime in the mill to reduce ac~dity and co precipitate a.,y metals from the effluent . Now this is what is in tended, but will it do it? That same question was asked to BRINEX into Makkov ik . Could they assure us, a simple question, could they assure us th at no e£fluent was going to le ak from the concentrator? They said , how can we assure you when we have not puc in the process yet? I am saying, 11r.

Speaker , they should not be given the opportunity to put into process if it is ::ot environmentally safe. l'dld thi s is what I hope r:hat this bill w.ill try to bring out to any companies that are planning tc do any explorat ion in any p;ut of Ne•.doundland . Mr . SpeaKer, on page forty -three, here tbey admit gUilt . Here is where BRINE X admits quilc y. They say, "~/hen in operation the effluent from a treatment area will be monitoree 1:0 assure compliance with standards, " now that .is sentence number one.

Sentence number two, ''possible seepage through or under the dam will be monitored ." Okay, th ey are saying , "possible see,age through and under the dam ..,ill be monitored "_ That is not che answer. - 1346 r '

March 20, 1980 Tape 511 EC - 1 MR. G. ~N: They are saying there is going to be seepage and they are Hying they are going to monitor it, but what is goillg to happen to it? You know, it is leaving too much too vaque anti it is tampering with the lives of the people, in particular in Maltkovik &nd Postville, because those riv.rs flow out into their communities. Those are the people who will be mostly affected. 'This monitoring, combined with a stringent design, will ensure that failure of the structure would be an u:tremely remote possihili ty, ' - an extremely remote possibility, Mr. Speaker.

I waa talking to Nain just yesterday and I was told that they have the highest snowfall that ever anyone in Nain could remember. You could walk partly from housetop to housetop. Now, that was a remote possibility last Summer. No one last Summer would have even thought of it, would they? They would not have said, 'We are going to have the biggest snowfall in the world,' but this year they got it. Now that is a remote possibility. SOME BON. MEMBERS : Hear 1 hear! MR. G. lmRREN: 'l'hank you for the applause. Mr.

Speaker, BRINEX under comments concerning flooding: 'Run-off from the local. water course will drain into the tailing storage area and must therefore be treated along with the mill affluent, Diversion ditches will be ccmatructed to divert llll much as possible' - you know, t.'U.s is what boils my blood, here they are saying again and again, 'as much u possible' • You know, they are not saying it is going to be done, they are saying 'Diversion ditches will be coiUitructed to divert as much u possible of the run-off around t,he tailing area; however, it caJIIlOt be all diverted.' Now, hear that!

Now, they are pretty -11 tal.linq us, 'Look, we are IJOing to build di tcbee , we are going to put up dAme, but - cannot divert all of it.' 'Nhat i11 going to h.appen to the other little · tiny bi.t, we will call it. You know, it does not t&ke very lll1ICh to ruin a person's life. The 111ain danger would be that the flood water would overflow the tailing dam and that the water flowing over would erode the dam &nd severely d.ulaga it. Nov, Mr . Speaker, what do - have now? 1347

March 20, 1980 Tape Sll EC - 2 MR. G. WARREN: BRINEX is saying that it could be a possibility, remote as it may seem. But the overflow on the tailing dam is going to overflow the dam and it is going to d~ge the dam. Now, what did they mean by damage? Is it going to put a little crack in it or scar the paint off it or something? No, Mr. Speaker, when a company that is involved with millions of dollars comes out and says this, that it is going to damage the dam, down inside, they know that is much more damage ~~ just a little crack or a little paint scratched off the dam.

It is damage where probably the dam could burst right open, completely open, and what happens to everything that is piled up in the dam? Downstream it comes. The 225 people in Postville and the 350 people in Makkovik 1 what happens to those people? It is very, very dangerous, and, Mr. Speaker, this environment bill, this is why I say that any furthe: development, anything further before BRINEX or any other company even thinks about addressing the uranium problem, should definitely first wait until this bill is passed, and every precaution is in this bill to make sure that none of these possibilities will occur.

Mr. Speaker, in November, 1979, the Labrador Inuit Association aent out this release. I want to take two quotes from their release. One quote is from a lady in Postville. She says, 'What are we going to do in fifteen years when the mine is closed down and the pit is left open and our land is ruined?' And the last part of the release says, 1 Does the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador have the people 1 - this is very important, Madam Minister, when you are bringing in this bill, and I think this last

part is very, very, very vitally important - it says, 'Does the Government of Hewfoundland and Labrador have the people, the money and the skill to properly enforce the environmental legislation it expects to pass?' 1348

March 20, 1980 Tape No. 512 SD - 1 }..N HON. MEMllER: Hear, hear. MR. G. WARREN: Now, Mr. Speaker, that is very important. It is no good to bring this bill in, it is a waste of paper, a waste of time, a waste of my energy, your energy and everyone else's energy, to have it if we ~ave not got the expertise, the people, the time and the skill 1D bring it into force.

Mr, Speaker, I 11!!1 getting pretty close to the end and on page 46, now, here we are talking about dec~issioning after the project is over; fifteen years have gone, the project is finished 1or twenty years - twe~ty five whatever the case may be - it is all over vi th. Now, ~llere are two big mcuntains , they got a dam put across the two mountains , probably twenty, fifty, one hundred feet high, it c,:,uld be much higher, and so they are sayinq 11hen the ore is exhausted permission :nust be obtained from t.lte AECB, Atomic Energy Control Board, to decommission the waste management cycle.

And they are saying here new, here we are looking fifteen years down the roa9, they are saying they do not even have a clue what they are going to do with it, we have not got a clue yet at the present time, do not have a clue. It will be necessary to review with them the best way we should go about doing this. A large a.JnOunt of reeearch has to be initiated on this subject and improV2me!\tS are likely to result from this research. Mr.

Speaker, you know, BRINEX have told the hearing in Makkovik saying that , •Look , when we are finished we will have the land back like it was before - started. • Now, if you ever heard a talk about a bunch of bologna that is a bunch of bologna. Bow in t.lte heck can you get the land, after destroying it for the past fifteen, twenty years, bring it back tlle way it was in ita original state? JU5t imagine, Mr.

Speo!lker, BRINEX is hiring on twenty-five or thirty men, taking blocks of concrete from a dam one hundnd feet high, takiD .q the blocka out one by one and dest:r:oyinl] them, taking them somewhere else and 1349

+;· March 20, 1980 Tape No. 512 SD - 2 MR. G. WARREN: destroying them. "hat are you qoinq to do with that big concrete wall? Mr. Speaker, I think they do not have any clue. They said it here, "We do not kDow yet at the present time what we are going to do with i~." 'I'hey are not going to do no more with it, Mr. Speaker, than any other company t:nat came into this Province and opened up mines and moved out. They will not do any more, Mr. Speaker, than the United States Air Force did when they left Saqlek, when they left Hopedale, when they left the St. Anthony site. 'I'hey will not do anythinq more, Mr.

Speaker, that is what they are qoinq to do - absolutely nothinq when decoamissioning the land. Mr. Speaker, I i!lll quite sapportive of this Environmental Bill. I am quite pleased that the minister has seen fit to brinq this in at this opportune time. However, there is one thinq that comes to M and that is the Powell Report was expected, first,it was expected to be released to government at the end of December.

Since then I have heard that it was qoing to he relaa.sed sometime in January; since then I have heard that it was qoing to he release sometime in February, now I understand it is goinq to be sometime this I I!IOnth. Mr. Speaker, I am s'!lre it is not fa.ir to put the llli.nister in an awkward position by askinq that question so I will not do so. But I am just wondering if that report will COI!Ie out before this Bill is passed or will that report be made available at all? I have- qot a fee~linq, Mr.

Speaker, that there is SOllie good news in that Repcrt, there is so- good info:zmation in that Report if the Powell Report ga'V'e the feelings that were expressed. Now, that is up to the Powell Report 1but if they gave tM feelings that were expressed that report should say, no development • no uranium de'V'elopment in t.brador until - and r am of this opinion - eveey precaution is 1350

Harch 20, 1980 Tape No. 512 so - 3 lm. G. WARREN: made, everything is done to make sure that it is environmentally , safe and environmentally sound to go ahead with any development in particular a~develo~nt that will definitely have an affect on the lives of people living in Labndor. Thanlt you, Mr. Speaker. SOME BON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. SPB.AXER (Butt): The hon. Minister .of Health. MR. W, BOUSE: Mr. Speaker, it is a qreat pleasure for me to st ·and up and support this Bill and say a few words on the Act. It is, of course, breaking new grou."ld and I am very happy with the support that it is receiving.

What it is essentially doing is showinq public concern for the environment and each clause ~s that and shows wbat a people government is goinq to do. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear. 13 51

March 20, 1980, Tape 513, Page 1 -- apb MR. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, I listened to the member for Windsor - Buchans (Mr. Flight) a few days ago and the House Leader for the Opposition and, of course, they gave support too. Of course, they both said, 'Oh, it is a good act but it does not go far enough'. That is support. I think when you cannot find anything else to say, that is good support. MR. GOUDIE: MR. HOUSE: does not go far enough. MR. GOUDIE: MR. HOUSE: Hear, hear! It is good act but it Good point.

I have some problem with that 'far enough' and I am of the opinion that not going quite far enough is far superior ~~an going too far. Being a Conservative, I think I would have to look at it that way. And if we see down the road that there are some major problems we can certainly revise upward. And we will have this government to do that. This government will be around here a long time to do that. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HOUSE: Well, that example there showed me that I am in better stead than I thought I was, a lot better than the people over there thought I was. MR. STIRLING: MR.

HOUSE: problem, of course SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER(Butt): MR. HOUSE: They showed you are losing. No, not me. Not me. No, no. So, Mr. Speaker, the other Oh, oh! Order, please! - that was stated ~~ere was something to the effect that it gives the minister too much power. Knowing the minister, of course,this minister, and knowing the fact that this government will be here some time, the fact that- well,. there is prelLTllinary work to be done 1352

.· ~~rch 20, 198 0, Tape 51 3, Page 2 -- apb MR. HOUSE: before an y major assessment takes place. And, of course, that is normal and I think we have to give the good people we have at the Department of Consumer Affairs and Environment, and the minister of course, the ability to do spade work before we go through a major cost of environmental assessment. I think we can live with that and I am sure that - I have to thank everybody who has supported it and praise the minister for bringing it in ~ecause it is showing real concern. Mr.

Speaker, I suppose most of us here in this Province still believe that Newfoundland and Labrador is ~ne of the last bastions of non-polluted territory in the Western World. And, of course, we have become somewhat a haven for people who come in from other places. They come here, a lot of them, for that very reason. And sometimes they become very outspoken and we become very critical of them. So we have become a little bit of a haven for purists. And judging from some of the havoc wrought ~Y some of the industry that we have, I am sort of smugly happy that we are not heavily industrialized.

Of course, when I listened to the member for Windsor - Buchans (Mr. Flight) the other day talking about some havoc that was played with wildlife when the Bay d'Espoir project was going ahead, that showed a wanton disregard for our wildlife, a wanton disregard for our laws. And, of course, ~re saw that happening too where wildlife officers, I was advised, used to go and kill off a lot of game for special banquets and so on on the advice of governments.

And, of course, you can look all across the Province, and I am not only concerned with the pollution that gets into the lungs and the system, I am also concerned with the 1353

March 20, 1980, Tape 513, Page 3 -- apb MR. HOUSE: visual pollution, and you can go along our highways anywhere and see dugouts on the side of the road, gravel pits and so on, and, of course, now we are coming up with some kind of a remedy for that. I could go on and give a lot of exampl,es where we have pollution that is visual and so on. Mr. Speaker, I am speaking as the Minister of Health today, and when I looked at the purpose of this act I felt obligated to get up and say something.

Because the first one is to facilitate the wise management of our resources and the second one is to protect the environment and the quality of life of our people of the Province. And that is a real health measure. The point that I want to get across here i~ as Minister of Health I want to say that health is something more than the absence of sickness or the absence of illness, health is the ability to grow vigourou~ly in a clean enviror~ent, and that is important.

This government, as much as we want industry, as much as we want industrialization, as much as we want places for people to work, the prime - - - . important thing, 1354

March 20, 1980 Tape No. 514 DW - 1 ~R. W. HOUSE: of course, is for people to be able to live healthy and one is exclusive of the other. I think,and we believe firmly that we ca~ have industriali~ation and we have health also. So ~his just goes to show that, of course, we are putting our hearts and minds and people, people first, a people government putting people first; work is secondary and we ho.pe. that we can have that. And of course, as whown by the Minister of L~tour and Manpower (Mr.

Dinn) and the statistics that we get from month to month,we are even imp~oving our work force, the numbers,even though we are still concerned and certainly going to look after the health of the people. Now, Mr. Speaker, I think we can all take some pleasure in looking at what is happening in the western world now. I think ten years ago if you heard tell of a pexson who was an environ­ mentalist you would look askance at him. Now aost every­ body can class themselves as being somewhat of an environ~entalist.

You can look at some of the newer industries that have come on tap - well, look at the mine in 1Daniel~s Harbour which is a recent mine where there has been very little danger and you ca~ look at the mining poperations,sa~ in Lab~ador itself. You can look at the Scully Mines or the Wabush mines, you can look at the IOC and with the IOC we had problemsi I do not think there was a good environ•ental assessment, we ~ are having that assessed again.

A study done nov_And the people there,when I vas Minister of Labour and Manpower so•e time ago I met with them and they said, 'If we had our time back we would not have had the problems that we got now because we would have gone to a different kind of process.' And you are not ha~ing the same problems in the Scully ainea in Labrador as 1355

..;:_ March 20, 1980 Tape No. 514 ow - 2 MR. W. HOUSE : you are having in the roc because Scully mines have a wet process, you are not getting the quantities of dust. With the toe that is the major problem, the dust. That was a case of where I think there was not enough asse~s- ment done and we have lived to regret it and of course the people in the area have lived to regret it more so that! we have. Mr. Speaker, it is not every day that I stand up here and speak 1 as a matter of fact it is not every day that I agree with the member for Windsor - Buchans (M.r.

Flight) ,and I do not think it is every day that the .member for Windsor- Buchans agrees with the member for Windsor - Buchans 1 but there are certain things that he says that ! entirely agree with. And I have a lot of sympathy with him- MR. FLIGHT:< It is not every .day that everyone agrees with you either (inaudible) people of Howley. MR. W. HOUSE: That is ri9ht. I was advised by the member for Windsor- Buchans,who has some relatives in Howley - MR. FLIGHT: Go back (inaudible) MR. W. HOUSE: :- and they are ·~~ sppporters,by the way- that I would not get elected.

As a matter of fact 1I had the biggest majority any single candid•te ever got in Howley this particular time and I want you to bear that in mind and I want the.res~ of the House to bear that in mind too. But I just want to point out to MR. FLIGHT: (Inaudible) 1356 ,. ~.

-( March 20, 1980 Tape No. 514 D~l - 3 MR. W. HOUSE: But anyway I am trying to point out to him that I am agreeing with him on the problems that he is talking about in our waterways and in the fores~s, the "olanton waste in the forests.'l.nd the fact that I think that Bowaters - and Bowaters certainly knows my stand on this, I was Mayor of the town of Deer Lake for six years and they have heard from me before on this .and of course Abitibi Price.

I belive if look back at the history of _ it all they had a tacit agreement to pollute, they could po~_l_qte, and for fifty years, f?!=. ~nsta~c_e, they have been portaging, driving - not portaging, that is the wrong word - but driving wood, mixing wood in the water and we have a build-up now of a bark in these lakes that is discolouring the water and is preventing the oxyger. from getting down. It is causing visual pollution around the lakes, dead heads on the lakes. And in one case, Mr.

Speaker, in Deer Lake the second year I was mayor there 1 I think it was somewhere around 1971, the bark was coming dry, going in on the shore and it got so dry there that we had f?.rty fires there in one Summar and this was caused by spontaneous co&bustion in that particular area. And ! have a lot of sympathy for this and I do not think that we should ever allow anything like that to happen again because it is certainly a real problem. The other thing, Mr.

Speaker, I want to just ment6on here is the fact that the Huaber Valley district. is the site now of uran±-aa exploration,~;~ :: far as I can gather that exploration is going~ ahead for another year and there are uranium finding i~ certain be*lders in the rarea 1357

March 20,1980 ':Cape No. 515 AH-1 MR. HOUSE: and what this exploration is trying to find is where these boulders came from and if there is any amount of uranium in the area. A lot of people have come to me from my constituency, and I have mixed feelings about it~ on the one hand I would hope that there are quantities there that can be exploited,and on the other hand it has given me a little uneasy feeling.

But in the meantime I have advise~ them that as long as I am a member a~d as long as this government is in that there will be a proper assessment done and everything done from a mechanical, from a technical, from an environmental viewpoint to ensure that everything is safely done. I advised them that this act coming in, which was on the Order Paper at the time,would insure that the public would have an input into determining if and when an exploitation of that mineral took place. And I advised them that the government is concerned about it. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I want to point out that there are two or three reasons then that I want to support it, for health reasons and because it so specifically pertains to my district. There are a number of other things that we talked about andwere mentioned and somebody talked about the spraying: Why did we spray two years ago and why did we not spray this year? Again it is reflective of this government and its democratic actions of lettin~ people know the facts.

I am satisfied that there is no long-term danger from Matacil spray, 1 am satisfied with that 1 but a lot of my constituents are not and the Royal Commission that we are appointing to look into that will do something similar to what an assessmentwould do, an environmental assessment. It will gather the peop~e together,it will give them a forum to express their views and to learn what are the problems and then and only then will we be able to say, 'Well, this is ~ ': 1358 -., '

March 20,1980 rap~ No. 515 AH-2 MR. HOUSE: it, you know the facts;and I am hopeful that it will be that there is no dangerin spraying with Matacil. I do not know that yet but I am quite happy with the process we are going now and that is all in the spirit 1 of course 1of having the public having an input and that is the reason why it was deferred,to put off for a year,to give that particular emphasis. Mr. Speaker, there are other things. we mentioned that we have no oil and gas finds out here and no way to control the spills.

Well,before any of that starts coming ashore-and we have people coming from all over the world to our Fisheries College here learning about marine life and about marine life and we are putting on courses, as you heard the Minister of Education (Ms Verge) talk about the other day, we are putting on courses that are going to help come to grips with the problems of oil spills and so on. And of course it will be some time down the road before that is going to be a danger.

But I can assure you that this government is going to be very concerned about that and going to try to ensure that there is going to be the minimum danger. Mr. Speaker, I am not going to go on much longer. I just want to point out that I am supporting the bill. I think it is good legislation. It is long overdue, there is no question about that. It is democratic in that you do not go out and impose your will on the people, that the people have an input and get educa~ed.

So with the good minister that we have, the good gepartment, this good legislation and of course with newer technology that we are industrializing in an age where the technology is improving and changin~ and with people who are concerned and a discerning public and with a good people government we can 1359

March 20, 1980 Tape No. 516 EL - 1 MR. W. HOUSE: be assured that we are going to have a good healthy environment and we can be assured that this act is going to help maintain the healthy environment that we have and that we want to continue on in the future. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. SOME. BON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER (R. Baird) : The hon. the member for Bonavista- North. MR. L. STIRLING: '!hank you very 11111ch, Mr. Speaker. I had not intended to speak in this debate, Mr.

Speaker, because many of the points have been covered by my colleague, However, I hear that there is another ~er on the other side who wishea to have something to say so that we will carry on and participate in the debate. Mr. Speaker, a lot has been said about the need for this kind of bill and this government has a little bit of DOrothy Wyatt in it, has a little bit of attempting to say to the public and make all the appearences to the public of gEeat concern 1and having gotten that message across that in public the government shows some concern, they then go on ln the same old manner.

For example, the offshore oil drilling that is going Ahead right nmn If we believe what we are hearinq it really is beinq drilled right now. We had a visit recently to this Province of Justice Berger who was the chairman o£ a similar kind of thing as we are talking about in this act.; And Justice Berger - now .:.. I attended his meeting - Justice Berger did a very serious study of ~ pipeline.

PresUIUbl_y we are going to have a pipeline offshore if you are going to believe everything that the Premier says about this oil that is coaing to shore in Newfoundland, that this ia a Newfoundland resource, that it is the same resource as the trees and 1360

March 20, 1980 Tape No. 516 EL - 2 MR. L. STIRLING: it is coming to Newfoundland in a pipeline. Justice Berger took :;three years, three years fro111 the til!le that that commission was appointed until they had finished their studies. He brought out some very interesting points, One of the points that he brought out was that you need to spend a great deal of money to 111ake sure that people really have a fair chance to appear before a hearing or a board or a commission because millions of dollars will be spent by the developing~company or companies to present their views. Millions of dollars!

He estiD'.ated something like $50 million had been spent by the companies presenting their views. By the way, the pipeline was ever .tually turned down. So he said that~-you need to provide adequate funding~ ~ere is no:mention, there is no mention in this of the kinds of funds that are going to be provided for people to do a reasonable and independent study amongst any of the projects that are being under- taken. We have asked for a very simple kind of op~rtunity for both sides of this House to participate in the discussion of the problems related to the environment in the offshore.

The qovern~~~ent has not, and nobody has mentioned, nobody from the govern~~~ent side, in discussing this bill, nobody has mentioned how they are going to apply the pro- bleJDS of the fishery. And we are talking about this of~shore develop- ment as 1361 k' .,.

March 20, 1980 Tape 517 EC - l MR. L. STIRLI.NG: if it were going to happen tomorrow. We hear statements that oil can be brought ashore within the next couple of years. We hear other statements that we are talking about ten years down the road. We hear statements that this is going to come to shore in Newfoundland. Well, if you need three years to do an environmental study on a pipeline on land, how many years do we need to do ~ 9tudy of a pipeline to come from Hibernia into St. John's or into the Avalon Peninsula or into any other part of Newfoundland? - if that is what ~e are talking about. AN HON.

MEMBER: He will not live long enough to see the benefit to Stephenville. MR. L. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, the inconsistency that I find in this government that once they get out to the public and malc.e a noise to the public about how concerned we are - and as the ~linister of Health (Mr. W.

House) said a few minutes ago, convince people that this is a 'people' government and admitted that he does not see anything wrong with spraying; I wonder would he agree - I notice that he has left, ~ut maybe he c:an come back in and say whether he agrees or not - that with the previous Minister of Forestry an agreement had been made and the forestry officials felt - the recommendation of the forestry officials was that they were going to spray this year. Everything was all set to spray this year.

I wonder if the 'out' in this environmental impact bill 1 I wonder if the truth of the difference bet~een the government's public attitude and what they really intend is covered in Page la, in which they say, • An undertaking that is in progress before this act comes into force is exempt from this act.' What does the government mean by that? If there is something in prcqress ·.- What does proqress mean? '!'be Upper salmon - one of the points that my colleague brought up last year - wu that rushed throuqh. before this bill so you would not have to deal with the environmental impact study? MR , F.

STAGG: Definitely not. MR.. L. STIRLING : A question that was never satisfactorily answered in this House. My colleague who spoke just a few minutes aqo spoke about the BRINEX conce:rna, .all the problems related to thoat. 1362

March 20, 1980 Tape 517 EC - 2 MR. L. STIRLING: Well, I would predict, Mr. Speaker, that we will not be going ahead with that project because of the action taken in British Columbia. But what would have happened, Mr. Speaker, if this government had that in progress under this bill? What other projects are in progress? And what did they define as 'in progress'? Does it mean 1 if the plans have been made' ? MR. G. FLIGHT: A lot of these industries are in progress. MR. L. STIRLING: And the mining? What do they mean by 'in progress'? Do they mean that anything that is now on the drawing boards is in progress? AN BON.

MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. L. STIRLING: What does it mean if they are ta.lking of the development in the offshore, is that in progress? KR. F • STAGG : That is happening now. MR. L. STIRLING: The member for Stephenville just said, 'That is happening now. ' Now, is that 1 in progress ' ? Are the government getting ready in this wild-eyed ~c approach that they have used in the last months to say, 'Now, look, Newfoundland, you have a choice -we can send out a ship and pump that pure oil right out of the hole that we have out there.

Now that is "in progress•, and we do not have to have any kind of impact •tudy on that and we bad better get that going now for a couple of years because we can make enough money on that, Newfoundlanders. ' I• that ' in progres•' ? MR. F. STAGG : RaAd the regulations • MR. L. ST:IRLIRG: Nobody on the other side has mentioned 1!ha definition of what is 1 in progra•s' • What about 1 Mr. Speaker, ·sea. of our S&lmon rivers that are now being polluted by mines, by paper mills? Is that 'in proc}ress '? And if SOJD.ebod.y wants to put in a new $20 million mill or a new $20 million plant, is th&t 1 in progress '?

Is that one of the reasons why it is DOt going to be looked at? And what is the 1363 f' 1

!""'\. Ma:ch 20, 1980 Tape 517 EC- 3 MR. L. STIRLING : consistency with a qovernment that says on one hand, 'The public lll\l$t be info:med and the public must be invol~, 1 and they have so~~~e kind of a God Allaiqhty fear that they should not let the members on this side of the Bouse puticipate in, a Select Comlllittee? And they aaid, 'Oh, no, cannot look into that! We have made up our minds, 1 - about one little piece of it. Have you JDade up your minds about what is goinq to be . the effect on the fishery? Have you II!Ade up your minds about how the oil is cominq in? I:s it coming in by pipeline?

What is the effect qoinq to be on the fianery? Have you made up your minda about that? Why should not we, both sides­ of thiS Bouse 1 atart riqht now? ~ecause the offshore is teo important a thl,.nq to be postponed until aome time in the 1364

March 20, 1980 Tape No. 518 GH-1 MR. STIRLING: future because Mr. Burger has already said it takes three years just to study the effects of a pipeline on land. I do not see the consistency of this government which is afraid to set up a select committee too look at all aspects of it. Up until a few hours ago, the government had not cleared up in their own minds about where that oil was located, whether it was inside or outside the 200-mile limit. Mr.

Speaker, this is a government that I do not know if you know or you care what you are doing to the peuple in this Province right now the kind of an approach that this goverr~ent is taking about letting out a little bit of information: Do we have oil or do we not have oil? There is speculation going on all over the Province. We have a housing situation right here in this area, in this urban region area. lie have no new land being developed for housing right new. The prices have gone sky high.

The people on fixed incomes are frightened to death because they are not going to be able to get jobs on the offshore, and we are just sitting back and letting it happen. A concern about people! People every day are seeing the prices jacked up in anticipation of the oil. All that is happening right now is all local speculators, mainland speculators, every kind of a speculator, trying to take advantage of what may happen, and ~e have a government who, up to this time, have given no straight answers.

They have not allowed - this government on that side and the Opposition on this side - ~~ey have not allowed us to come together to look at the basics. They have been screaming on the basis of, "The main question is ownership" . This party has been on record on the owner~hip of this offshore for ten years, and they are now discovering it. They are now discovering the ownership is a question. There is no difference in us on the question of ownership, no difterence. Now, let us get on to the other questions. How are we going to handle the very problems? Hibarnia is no longer a guess.

Hibernia is no longer an estimate in somebody's mind. We now can look at the alternative routes. Y.ou should now have an appointment 1365

r March 20, 1980 Tape No. 518 GH-2 k!:R _,_ ST .~: made, a public hearing set up. We are saying that if you have not got that done, at least ~et a select committee set up in this House. Let a select committee - what is the Public Accounts Committee if it is not a select committee? Everybody agrees the Public Accounts Committee has dcne a good job in the past. Whether they will do a good job in the future will really depend on whether the government allows them to operate and to act, and this is a select committee, the same concept of looking into all aspects.

It is a question that is very fundamental, brought up by my colleagues on this side who said the act does not go iar enough and the Minister of Health (Mr. House) said he is a Conservati·,re and he is quite happy with it and then he ran out of the House so he ~uuld ~ot have to answer some of the comments. MR. STAGG: MR. STIRLING: So he would not have to listen to you. That is probably a very good idea. What is in the act? I have been told, "Read the act". The minister - MR. STAGG: Not that act. MR. STIP~ING: - the minister - what are we debating? I am debating this act. The minister in this act - MR.

STAGG: (Inaudible) you already (inaudible) , shut up, boy. MR. STIRLING: The minister under this act, and I '~uld refer the member to Stephenville (Mr. Stagg) to some of the comments that he made this morning in which he said that we are now about to participate in an exercise - that he thought the people who held the highest office would end up with criminal charges. Those are his words, not mine. If you cannot trust the person who holds the highest office MR. STAGG: point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: (Baird) MR.

STAGG: Point of order, point of order, Point of order. (Inaudible) The han. member (inaudible) quote me, he does not quote me. I talked this morning about the possibility of criminal charges being laid, I did not say criminal charges were going to be laid, and the han. member, if he is going to 1366

~:arch 20, 1980 Tape Nc. 518 GH-3 MR. STAGG: qu~t:e rr.e, quote me accurat e!y, but: I doubt whether t:he hon. meCI.ber •..-.i~hes eo do t.loaat:. AN :10:-1. ~IEX3ER: Sut what about: the p?int of order? M.."t. STAGG: I got: my licks in er.ere anyway, Mr . Speaker. :-m. S~EAJCE:R: (9a.ird) Wit:h regards to t:he point: o:: order, it is just a matter of a clifference of opinion . I would ask the hon. member to carry on witil his speech. SOME HON. HEt-!BERS : Hear , heart AN HON. MEMBER: It ~~uld be much better if you were. )!R , NEA.~'l : Why do you not learn ~he r~es of the ~ouse? ;>!R .

Si'E:A.:<:ER: I would also like t:o remind the memeer, too, of relevance. ~!R . STl:RLIN G: Thank you very much, ~x. Spe~ker. ~nat: I am saying is very relevant. i\N BON. MEMBER: (InaudU>le ) • MR . NEARY: Listen eo the ant:~ - labou: minister, anti- union :ninist:er . ~ - SPEJU<ER: Order, please ! MR . ?Ow'ER: Is there any ... ·ay of keepir:'i tha:: c!'aap quiet over ehere, Mr. Speaker? MR . STIJU.J:NG: ~tt. Speaker, what I am sa ying is very \ 1367 .. , ··.t

~ : ..... ~:·;..·;{ March 20, 1980, Tape 519, Page 1 -- apb MR. STIRLING: relevant and I am glad that the member for Stephenville (Mr. Stagg J •. as he said, got hi~ licks in. MR. NEARY: That is what they say (inaudible) • MR. STIRLING: The member for Stephenville has said 'be relevant'. Okay, I am being relevant. Page 17, 'Exemptions'. MR. NEARY: company. MR. BENNETT: HR. STIRLING: Spokesman for the telephone How relevant can you get? Now, Mr.

Speaker, I think if you refer to Hansard, and refer to the Committee's report this morning, you will see what the member for Stephenville was saying and will decide who was right in the quotation. Because I agree he does not know from one minute to the next what he said. MR. NEARY: MR. STIRLING: MR. STAGG: SOME HON. MEMBERS : Right on: Exemptions - A point of order, Mr. Speaker. Hear, hear: MR.

STAGG: Sir, this hen. gentleman over there is supposed to be talking about the environment bill and he obviously lacks the ability to speak on it so he thinks that he can get a few cheap shots here about what happened this morning or what did not happen this morning. Obivously the rule of relevancy applies here. He is being quite contemptuous to the Chair. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. W!i.£TE : MR. SPEAKER(Baird): Hear, hear! To the point of order. The hen. the member for Lewisporte to the point of order. MR. WHITE: There is no point of order, Mr. Speaker. The member for Bonavista North (Mr.

Stirling} is forced to answer the member for Stephenville and to not be relevant because the member for Stephenville continues 1368

March 20, 1980, Tape 519, Page 2 -- apb MR. WHITE: debate. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. WHITE: to interject into the Hear, hear! He should be the one to be shut up and not the member for Bonavista North. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER(Baird): On the point of order. There is no point of order and I will again remind the bon. member for Bonavista North (Mr. Stirling) about relevance. MR. STIRLING: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. To be relevant, page 17, Mr. Speaker, my source, page 17, 'Exemptions'.

"Where the minister is of the opinion that it is in the public interest, having regard to the purpose of this act and weighing the same against the injury, damage or interference that might be caused" - AN HON. MEMBER: linaudible) MR. STIRLING: The minister. - "by the application of this act to any undertaking, the minister, with the approval of the Lieutenant-Governor in Council, may by order exempt an undertaking or proponent of an undertaking from the application of this act". And that is the relevance, Mr. Speaker. We have had many records in the past of ministers not following the act.

We have had recent history, recent examples where a minister did not follow the Public Tendering Act. And in this case, what we are saying here, is that we do not think this should be trusted, regardless of who the minister is, regardless of which party is in power, that this act is a useless piece of paper if you have a minister who can be pressured to say, in my opinion - let me quickly say that I have the highest respect for the present minister and I do not think the present minister is one of those people that I am talking about. 1369

... J • .' March 20, 1980, Tape 519, Page 3 -- apb MR. NEARY: weak but (inaudible) • MR. STIRLING: Ma y be weak. Ma y be But let us say that there are other people who might be put in that position. MR. STAGG: MR. SPEAKER(Simms): Name him. Order, please: If I might interrupt the hon. member, if he would permit me. Although it is not quite five o'clock, I will take advantage of your interlude there to point out to bon. members that I have received notice of three matters for debate at five-thirty when a motion to adjourn will be deemed to be before the House.

Notice given by the bon. the member for Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) arising out of a question asked the bon. the Minister of Mines and Energy (Mr. Barry) and the subject matter is native land rights in Labrador. The second matter for debate, notice given by the han. the member for Grand Bank (Mr. Thoms) arising out of a question asked the bon. the Minister of Justice (Mr. Ottenheimer) and the subject matter violence in hockey. The third matter for debate, notice given by the bon. the member for LaPoile (Mr.

Neary) arising out of a question asked the hen. the Minister of Consumer Affairs and Environment, and the subject matter refusal of retail outlets in this Province to give senior citizens a line of credit as they do with other people. I thank the hon. member for allowing me to interrupt and ask him to continue. MR .. STIRLING: Thank you ve.ry much, Mr. Speaker. Can somebody tell me how much time I have left? MR. SPEAKER: The bon. member has until five minutes past five, I believe. Is that correct? MR. STIRLING: Five past five. 1370

March 20, 1980, Tape 519, Pa9e 4 -- apb z.!.R . NEARY: MR . STIRLING: get back to a point - MR. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER(Simms): By leave. Jtolr . Speaker, I want to By leave, Mr. Speaker. Order, plea se~ If the matter is to ba raised it will have to be raised at five past five ~hen the m~~er's time does expire then we will see if there is leave. Bonavista North may continue. MR. STIRLING: The hon. the member for Mr . Speaker, I am glad that the Minister of Health (Mr . House) brought up another point and that was the question of the spray programme.

And he uses the setting up of that royal commission as an example of this government's competence or efficiency, a prime example - of this government - that he is looking for bouquets for the spray programme. Nell, just let us have a look at it, Mr. Speaker, because 137 1

.... f· ,y March 20, 1980 Tape No. 520 IB-1 MR. STIRLING: I can give the minister an example of why I think that that is a good example of how this government operates. This government at times takes credit for going back to 1972. The Premier takes credit for his involvement in the offshore oil. I was involved with a group, and the former Minister of Lands and Forests was involved with a group, attempting to reopen the Gambo mill.

And when we got into it, when we got deeply involved in reopening the question was, "What about the wood supply?" And we finally had to get a meeting of all the forestry officials and the answer came back on the wood supply that 80 per cent to 90 per cent- not 5 per cent, 10 per cent or 15 per cent- 80 per cent to 90 per cent of that wood supply in the Gambo area assigned to this mill, 80 per cent to 90 per cent of it was now dead or dying from the spruce budworm and that is an exact example of the kind of concern that I have, Mr. Speaker, about this environmental - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! Shameful! MR.

STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, that is an exact example of what I am talking about. What I am talking about, Mr. Speaker, is that this government has a responsibility for the management of our forests and you cannot wait for eight or ten years after it is destroyed 1 as they have now done,to say, "Look,I think we will set up a Royal Commission on the spruce budworm". After the problem has eaten the forest they are now going to set up a royal commission and I am concerned, Mr.

Speaker, that that is the same attitude they are going to take with the environmental study, that by the time our fisheries have been killed by spills from a pipeline that istrying to come in from ~ibernia they will say, "oh, I think we had better have an environmental impact study- after the fishery is dead.q And that is what we will do. 1372

~ ·I March 20, 1980 Tape No. 520 IB-2 MR. STIRLING: What we need to do, Mr. Speaker, is to take the action far enough in advance so they can do something with the problem. The time for a Royal Commission on the spruce budworm which should have been a Rdyal Commission on forestry management as my colleague here has said, a Royal Commission on forestry management should have been done when this government came in in 1972. MR. NEARY: Right on! MR. STIRLING: Or at least in 1975. MR. PECKFORD: How about 1971? MR. STIRLING: 1971, sure a good time. A good time. MR.

NEARY: They do not want to hear anything about the Moores Administration- MR. STIRLING: Well, Mr. Speaker, you cannot have it both ways . MR. NEARY: - only the Smallwo~d, not the Moores. Well, they are going to hear more about the Moores Administration before this is all over. MR. SPEAKER (SIMMS): Order, please! It is very difficult to hear the han. member make his comments. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) when he can get up and lie. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. STIRLING: Mr. Speaker, I have no objection to the interruptions. I carry on. MR.

SPEAXER: In that case the hen. member may carry on. MR. STIRLING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that is why we have to have some consistency. we talk about the future of Newfoundland and we talk about the kind of life we want in Newfoundland, we talk about the concern for getting people involved and yet we then have a government that makes 1373

March 20, 1980 Tape No. 520 IB-3 MR. STIRLING: the public utterances and then they produce a piece of paper which has all the trappings of being a good bill and then they give the minister 1 as is now starting to come out, various ministers since 1972 have not shown that they have acted in the public interest. MR. NEARY: That is right, in good faith. MR. STIRLING: And I do not care which government was in power, Mr. Speaker, that authority should rest in this Legislature. MR. NEARY: Right on! MR.

STIRLING: And I am concerned 1 as I was concerned and spoke up about the Municipalities Act,when you can bring in regional government by having a minister refer to the Lieutenant-Governor in Council. And we are in danger in this House of Assembly of seeing all the authority of the House of Assembly taken onto the ministr y, taken onto the Lieutenant-Governor in Council and taken away from the people; and it is the people who put us here and we have every right as members of this House to speak up. And, Mr. Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me the extra - oh, I do not. I still have another few minutes.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave. MR. STIRLING: four minutes. No, I still have another three or Thank you. SOME HON. MEMBERS: By leave. MR. STIRLING: No, I still have three minutes.I do not need the leave for three minutes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there are a lot of related problems that this government should be doing something about right now. They should be looking into the concerns of the people in this area who have to live on a fixed income and are wondering what is going to happen to them 1374

March 20, 1980 Tape No. 52 0 IB-4 11:>.. STIRLING: in this wild spec~lation of the offshore. MR. NEARY: Right on! MR. STIRLI NG: There is a news report coming over 1375 ~·{

.. ) March 20, 1980 Tape 521 MB - 1 MR. L. STIRLING: from London today, just today, in which they are now saying ; ''Maybe the offshore in the North Sea was the worst thing that ever happened to us because people got false expectations, prices went out of range,inflation has gone sky-high and that they are not going to face up to reality." There are a lot of the realities of this whole question of the development, Mr. Speaker, this whole question of the impact on the fishery, the impact on the environment, all of these questions that should now be dealt with.

We asked for a select committee to say;How do you propose to deal with all these problems? How are you going to deal with the senior ci~izens? How are you going to deal with the person who is on welfare, long term assistance? What are you going to do with the tremendous housing shortage we already have in this city?' And in the next four or five years you are going to have a problem all over the Province. But we are not dealing with those problems, we are making puhlic ,nice .little statements that motherhood kind of things you cannot disagree with. MR. NEARY: Playing political trickery. MR. L. STIRLING: Mr.

Speaker, when people can get up and take credit for bringing in a piece of paper, then they should put some teeth in it. They should not allow the minister to say that the minister may say that it is not required, or that if something is in progress it is not required. It is not specific enough and we have not had any of the answers on this side of the Bouse. Thank you very much. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear; MR. SPEAKER: (Butt) The bon. Minister of Rural, Agriculture and Northern Development. MR. J. GOUDIE : IlL Speaker, I just want to have a few very short words on this ~vironmental assesSIII8nt bill.

I think it is such an excelle~t piece of legislation that it does not require any .01:11 than a very few short worils to support the leqislation. SOME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear . MR. J. GOUDIE : 'lhe purpose of this hill is outlined on page 6, and any bill with that kind of purpose in mind, I think, is to 1375

March 20, 1980 Tape 521 MB - 2 MR. J. GOUDIE: be lauded, and I will give one specific reason why. The hon. member (Mr. Stirling) who just took his seat, Mr. Speaker, and was talking about royal commissions being implemented after the forest is gone and after the oil is gone, the fishery is gone and everything else, I think,· should bear in mind there was directly and only because of this legislation, this proposed piece of legislation,here,that the public hearings were held into the proposed uranium development to be carried out by BRINEX up in the Kitts~Michelin area, only becau=e of this.

If it had not been for this proposed legislation that process would not have been in place and the project, if it had gone ahead! would have gone ahead in the fashion that it would have gene ahead~ what?- ten or fifteen years ago. Would that be an ·accurate statement to make? 11M BON. MEMBER: Yes. HR. MARSHALL: The first time it ever happened. HR.: J: GOUDIE: First time. And BRINEX a!OZ"eed to this particular process, they did not have any choice but to agree with this process because of the pending legishltion that we are debating here in the honourable House today, Mr. Speaker.

Far be it from me to try and defend BRINEX and their proposed operations into the potential ur<lnium - - ~- - - developments in Labrador . ·'rhat is not my job. MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) HR. J. GOUDIE: I did not say it. I just said far be it from me to defend them. The hon. member for LaPoile is deliberately misconstruing again, the way he always does, Mr. Speaker, deliberately misconstruing what hon. members of the House say. That is what the member for LaPoile is trying to do. MR. : FI;YGB'1': The bill is here. HR. J. GOUDIE: I am talking about the bon. member for LaPoile's comments. HR.

NEAR!: Let us hear what you are going to say : MR. J. GOODIE: _..._ ..... . _. HR. FLIGHT: The member for Windsor - Buchans - Come on. Let him do it, boy! 1377

March 20, 1980 Tape 521 ME - 3 MR. J. GOUDIE: Well, that is all right. The hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary) is carrying on in his tradit~onal fashion. I will try and get a couple of trOre col!lnents in before he - MR. NEARY: Te 11 the truth. MR. J. GOUDIE: The truth of what? MR. NE1.RY: Everything in this Bouse.In connection with dishonesty and co=uption on top of that. MR, J. GOUDIE: We are discussing a truth here I think, that this is good legislation. So ~ere it is. Carry on. I am not going to try, as I was saying a cauple of minutes ag9,and defend BRINEX in what they are proposing to do.

The hon. member for Torngat (Mr. wa=en) went through one of the six or seven environmental assessment reports which were presented by BRINEX to government, to the public in their environ- mental hearings and so on. But having gone through that he pointed cut a number of concerns, I think, in relation to the trucking of sulphuric acid, I believe is what he was referring to in his comments, from the Goose Bay area to Kitts-Michelin if that is to go ahead,and there is no guarantee right DDW, in relation to this envi:l:oJlllleJltal bill, that it will go ahead.

I understand that BRINEX has some problems and I think they have stated it in the papers, they haw some problems with unstable markets and that kiftd of thing so it does not necessarily mean til.at this thing is going to go ahead. The idea of the public hearings, as I under- stand them, which are referred to on ~age 14 of this bill,

section 29 and right on down through, is to gi-ve the proponent the opportunity to defend their proposed project to the public. And that is what BRINEX was required to do in this particular process • They went to the communi ties of Happy Valley - Goose Bay, Northwest River~ both sides of the river ~- Postville, Makkovilt,and put forth their case and there was a fairly interesting-, I think, discussion and reaction to their proposal. I think though that one c:omment I have to make, it does not directly relate to this __ .. - particular bill but to the proposed operation that BRINEX w.nt to go ahead with if they can get everything in place and satisfy this. ~- 1378

):, Ma rch 20 , 1980 Tape No. 522 IB-1 MR. GOUDIE: Environmental Bill process is that if it does go ahead my district stands to benefit more, I suppose, in terms of direct impact of that operation and spinoff than any other community in Labrador - MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) a favour. MR. GOUDIE: No, I am not saying that, not saying that in the least. MR . THOMS : Do not be like a monkey 1you are either for or against it . MR. GOUDIE: I am for the proposed operation of Brinex if they meet all the requirements laid down by law. That is all I am saying.

I have stated that publicly before and all I am pointing out now - MR. NEARY: MR. GOUDIE: MR. NEARY: requirements? MR. GOUDIE: read the bill? MR. NEARY: MR. NEARY: MR. GOUDIE: MR. NEARY: What are the requirements? The requirements of what? Did you not say that there are Well, here, has the han. member No (inaudible). The Powell Royal Commission. Pardon me? The Powell Royal Commission is the one that is looking into the uranium plant. MR. GOUDIE: That commission is a direct result of this particular piece of legislation. MR. NEARY: No, it is not. It has nothing to do with it, absolutely nothing to do with it. MR.

GOUDIE: If it had not been for this proposed legislation, Mr. Speaker, then the public hearings would not 1379

March 20, 1980 MR. GOUDIE: have gone ahead. MR. NEARY: Tape No. 522 IB -2 There is no way you can link the two. It has nothing to do with it, no relationship at all. MR. GOUDIE: Well 1 perhaps other speakers might be able to convince the hon. member more than I can. MR. NEARY: This is a royal commission of enquiry. MR. MORGAN: MR. r.ouniE: MR. NEARY: Be quiet! Let t~e ~an speak. Into what? To look into the environmental problems in connection with the development of uranium. MR. GOUDIE: I am talking about the public hearings, not the Royal Commission. That is what I am talking about.

Now I do not know what I was going to sa y in the first place after that exchange. But in any event, my district stands to benefit is what I was saying. MR. WARREN: Have to sacrifice (inaudible) MR. GOUDIE: There goes the hon. member deliberately misconstruing my words again, completely, deliberately misconstruing. That is what he is trying to do. He is following the lead of the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. Neary). MR. NEARY: Well, make yourself clear. MR. GOUDIE: If the hon. member will stay silent for just a moment, Mr. Speaker - MR. SPEAKER (Butt): Order, please: MR.

GOUDIE: - I am going to try to make a point. That is all I am trying to do, make a point. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! MR. GOUDIE: If that uranium development goes ahead, 'if'and it is questionable right now. MR. STIRLING: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: A point of order. The hon. member for Bonavista North. 1380

-s:.~ .•. March 20, 198 0 Tape No. 522 IB-3 MR. STIRLING: I think that the last speaker just made a remark which was unparliamentary about my colleague from Torngat Mountains (Mr. Warren) and I ask him to withdraw it. MR. GOUDIE: MR. SPEAKER (Butt): minister. MR. GOUDIE: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. To the point of order, the hon. I think that the hon. member is referring to the words 'deliberately misconstruing' When I spoke I said, 'deliberately misconstruing my words' not 'deliberately misleading the House of Assembly' MR. STIRLING: To the point of order. MR. SPEAKER: Still to the point of order? MR.

STIRLING: Still to the point of order. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Bona vista North. MR. STIRLING: That is right. Regardless of what the motive 1 you cannot make that kind of comment. I would suggest that reference will show that that is not an acceptable comment. MR . MARSHALL: MR. SPEAKER: of the Council. MR. MARSHALL: To the point of order, Mr. Speaker. To the point of order, the President Mr. Speaker, I do not know if that is the parliamentary rules and forms according to Stirling or whether it goes to Beauchesne but, Mr.

Speaker, the word in Beauchesne if the hen. gentleman would like to - I know this will send him to the books for the next couple of hours - but the word 'mislead' is out of order, 'deliberately misleading', 'deliberately misled'. But to say somebody is 'deliberately misconstruing' is not in there. It is a different thing altogether. To mislead is to have an intention to do something, it is to have a premeditation. Somebody can misconstrue something and misconstrue something accidentially. So, you know, we go by Beauchesne,as I say, not by the hon. member, Mr. Speaker. 1381

March 2(), 1980 Tape No. 522 IB-4 MR. SPEAKER (BUTT): Order, please! Order, please! Order, please! Order, please! I would ask the hon. gentleman to come to order when I call order. To the point of order, there is no point of order and I would ask the hon. minister to continue. MR. GOUDIE: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. GOUDIE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Oh, oh! Order, please! The hon. the minister. Just a couple of remarks, Mr. Speaker. I do not think I will continue any further in this particular debate.

There is a delegation within the confines of the House of Assembly now who want to discuss some very important matters as they relate to Labrador, to the fishery 1 and I think my time would be better spent talking with them and in conjunction with my colleague, the Minister of Fisheries (Mr. Morgan). So I will just wind up now by saying that I completely support this bill, that I think it is a good bill, that I think the intent of the bill is one of the more progressive pieces of legislation that you will see in this hon. House this year and I think that the minister and the government should be commented for it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for Port au Port. AN HON. MEMBER: Hear, hear! MR. HODDER: Mr. Speaker, I would say that