Newfoundland and Labrador Hansard — Members' Statements; Statements by Ministers — 27 April 2009 (46th General Assembly, 2nd Session, Vol. XLVI No. 10)
2009-04-27
Newfoundland and Labrador — Debates (Hansard)
April
27, 2009
HOUSE OF
ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS
Vol. XLVI
No. 10
The House met at 1:30 p.m.
MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!
Admit strangers.
Today the House of Assembly would like to welcome students who are the first,
second and third place finishers of the Sanofi-Aventis Biotalent Challenge. They
are Rebecca Hollett of Holy Heart High School, Megan Howse of St. Peter's
Junior High, and Heather Warren and Stacey Roberts of Bishops College.
Welcome to the House of Assembly.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Members
MR. SPEAKER: Today the following members' statements will be heard: the
hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo & LaPoile; the hon. the Member
for the District of Lewisporte; the hon. the Member for the District of Port de
Grave; the hon. the Member for the District of Baie VerteSpringdale; and the
hon. the Member for the District of Bellevue.
The hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo & LaPoile.
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: I guess I have to wait for the light, Mr. Speaker.
AN HON. MEMBER: Oh, they have mine on.
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: They have the wrong one on.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo &
LaPoile.
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I was only gone for two weeks and they forgot me already.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to recognize and congratulate ten-year-old Kelsie Hodder from
the community of Margaree in my district on winning gold at the provincial YBC
bowling tournament in Grand FallsWindsor recently.
Kelsie is a member of the Port aux Basques Bowling Council. Her team placed
second in the western zone competition held back in February at Corner Brook.
Kelsie had the highest number of pinfalls in her division and won the right to
compete as the bantam girls single in the provincial tournament. At the
provincials, Kelsie bowled 92 pinfalls above the second place bowler, earning
her the honour of representing Newfoundland and Labrador at the YBC bowling
nationals to be held in Markham, Ontario, on May 2 to 4.
Kelsie will have to bowl seven games per day over three days at the nationals
and her dad, Darren Hodder, will be coaching the provincial senior boys team and
her mom, Trudy, will also be going along for support. They hope to see some of
the sights in the area during the trip despite their busy schedules.
Kelsie started bowling in kindergarten and this is her fifth year bowling.
She absolutely loves going to competitions and meeting new people.
Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join with me in extending
congratulations to Kelsie Hodder on winning the provincial YBC single bantam
girls' competition and wish her well at the nationals on May 2 to 4. All the
best, Kelsie, to you and your family.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Lewisporte.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. VERGE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I guess this is bowling day because I also have a statement about bowling.
Mr. Speaker, I rise in this hon. House today to recognize a very significant
accomplishment by a ladies bowling team from my district. The team is made up of
five ladies from Winter Games Lanes in Lewisporte.
On Saturday, April 4 of this year, Shirley Sceviour, Sherry Gillett,
Claudette Tulk, Stacey Reid, and Melanie Tucker represented our area by
participating in the Bowling Proprietors Association of Newfoundland and
Labrador Classified Bowling tournament. This is an annual five-pin bowling
tournament held in St. John's.
Our team bowled five consecutive games and won the tournament. In the twenty
year history of the Winter Games Lanes this is the first time a ladies team from
Lewisporte area has brought home the provincial title. Their win gives them the
right to represent Newfoundland and Labrador in the National Five Pin Bowling
tournament being held in Winnipeg, Manitoba on May 23 and May 24.
Mr. Speaker, I would like all hon. members to join with me in extending
congratulations to the team from Winter Games Lanes and to wish them the best of
good luck as they head to the national competition.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.
MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
On April 23, I had the pleasure of attending the Canadian Bible Society
Newfoundland and Labrador District's 197 annual general meeting. The event
took place at the Evangel Pentecostal Tabernacle in Grand Falls-Windsor.
Since April 19 to April 25 was National Volunteer Week, it was very
appropriate to join all denominations to salute and thank them for their
continued volunteer work.
The highlight of the evening was the presentation by a Ms Sarah Townley who
was born in Hebron, Labrador and is currently employed at the Labrador School
Board as a program staffer for Inuit education. Ms Townley joined four other
translators to complete the work of translating and editing seven individual
large books into the current Inuktitut Bible which has been presented to the
Moravian Church in Labrador.
Major Lorne Pritchett, District Director for the Canadian Bible Society
stated that this venture was truly the highlight of the year.
I ask all hon. members to join me in extending congratulations and continued
success to the Canadian Bible Society on their 197 year in translating,
publishing and distributing the Bible.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Baie
Verte-Springdale.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. POLLARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise in this hon. House today to recognize an outstanding individual in my
District of Baie Verte-Springdale.
In the words of June Warr, also an outstanding Springdale resident, Mr. Don
Huxter is a community stalwart and supporter of civic projects and innovations.
Getting his hands dirty with a project has never been a turn off for Don, who is
always right there to clean up, put up and stand up for what might improve our
town.
A retired high school Biology teacher for the past seventeen years, Mr. Don
Huxter has tirelessly and enthusiastically served his community at all levels,
locally, regionally, and provincially.
Being selected Springdale's citizen of the year and inducted into the
Newfoundland and Labrador Soccer Hall of Fame is a testament of Mr. Huxter's
immense contribution not only to his town but also to his Province.
Don coached and mentored many school teams and students in his day. The
Member for the District of The Isles of Notre Dame, my colleague, is a prime
example.
If the town or some other organization wants something done and done right,
everyone says phone Don Huxter.
Honourable colleagues, please join me in thanking and recognizing Mr. Don
Huxter for his countless hours of volunteer service to his community and to his
fellow man.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Bellevue.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. PEACH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise here in this hon. House today to speak of nine individuals from my
district and the neighbouring District of Burin-Placentia West, who work with
the CP Rail Crew #1 in Ontario. This crew organized and participated in an
on-site recycling program, bringing home proceeds of $1,450.00 from the program
and presented this amount to the Burin Peninsula Health Care Foundation.
This crew comes from all parts of the nation, but is strengthened by nine
Newfoundlanders from the Burin Peninsula communities of my district, St. Bernard's
and the Terrenceville area, along with members of my neighbouring district in
the Rushoon area.
The nine members of the crew from Newfoundland are: Sammy Sheppard, Robert
Whiffen, Robert Halliday, Kevin Whiffen, Fred Norman, Michael McGrath, Gerard
Hynes, Gordon Saint and Frank Stewart.
It is kind and charitable acts like these which help to ensure we keep our
health care system strong and vital. We all have to play a role in finding
unique ways to meet the challenges of the future.
I ask that all hon. members join me in giving an extraordinary congratulation
and a thank you to the CP Rail Crew for their favourable donations to the Burin
Peninsula Health Care Foundation.
Thank you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
Statements by Ministers
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise today to recognize National Victims of Crime Awareness Week in Canada
which takes place April 26 to May 2, 2009
The purpose of the National Victims of Crime Awareness Week is to raise
awareness about issues faced by victims of crime, inform them of the services
that are available, and also to acknowledge the rewarding, yet often
challenging, work of those who do assist victims of crime.
In our Province, Mr. Speaker, the Department of Justice has eleven Victim
Services offices staffed with dedicated individuals who put the emphasis on
helping those who have unfortunately experienced crime. These professionals work
on the principle that victims should be treated fairly, with courtesy and, most
importantly, with compassion and respect. Victims should not be inconvenienced
by their involvement with the justice system and should receive fair redress.
In 2005, Mr. Speaker, Victim Services assumed the mandate to provide services
to child victims and witnesses as well, those under the age of sixteen in the
criminal justice system. Since that time, wonderful work has been undertaken to
prepare children for the often intimidating process of criminal justice
proceedings.
A children's workbook has been prepared in 2008 and is being used with
children aged seven to eleven and youth aged twelve to fifteen. Most recently, a
DVD entitled Making a Difference has been completed and is available for
children and other vulnerable individuals.
This fifteen minute DVD prepares children under the age of sixteen, and other
vulnerable individuals, for testifying in court. It is available at all eleven
regional offices of Victim Services, and its creation and production has been
supported through the Violence Prevention Initiative.
Importantly, Mr. Speaker, this DVD is also available on the Internet through
the Department of Justice Web site for all residents of the Province, but
particularly children, their parents and guardians, to avail of at any time.
is representative of cultural diversity, rural/urban experiences and gender
balance. The Violence Prevention Initiative is providing $22,000 to have this
DVD available in both official languages and several Aboriginal dialects this
year.
Mr. Speaker, once an individual has become a victim of a crime, his or her
life can be changed forever. Nonetheless, Victim Services employees are working
hard each and every day to lessen these impacts. During National Victims of
Crime Awareness week we recognize them and remember victims of crime throughout
Canada.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement.
It has often been said that perpetrators sometimes have it better in our
system than the victims, with all the rights that are afforded them in terms of
legal aid services and so on. It is great to see that we have a recognition here
nationally now of an awareness to the victims of crime; because, whether it be
an assault or a robbery or a fraud or a break-in, people are impacted by these
crimes, and not only the individuals themselves, of course, but their families,
depending upon the nature of the crime. So it is great to see that we do have
and we have had, in the last ten or fifteen years - a greater emphasis on
providing services for the victims, as opposed to just providing for the rights
of the accused person. That is great to see, because we certainly need to have
the balance between the two. Whether it is our courts, our social workers,
whether it is legal aid, sources and facilities are available - and case
workers.
It is nice to see, as well, we now have a new Minister Responsible for Child,
Youth and Family Services, and I would think, if you deal with child victims,
that minister will, of course, hopefully be playing a role in the services to
them as well, rather than just not only exclusively health services, for
example, but anything that children would need.
Anyone who watches the media in this Province on a nightly basis, of course,
you need only see the perpetrators that go through our courts and just how busy
our courts are. Behind that, there is probably a four to one ratio in terms of
the victims that are impacted by the crimes that these individuals have
committed.
There is an old saying that justice delayed is justice denied. I would point
out to the minister, as the Associate Chief Judge just recently pointed out, we
do have some vacancies in our system which, of course, slows down the process.
So, if you are a victim, it is bad enough that you have to deal with the issue,
but when you have that issue being dragged through the courts because we do not
have the proper courts in process working to their full efficiencies, that is
when we have problems. It is not only in the court systems here in the St. John's
area but also in Central and the circuit courts, for example. I can speak from
personal experience; I know on the West Coast some of the circuit courts are
delayed by months, and that impacts victims.
So it is nice to see it is recognized, and hopefully we will keep working
towards making it even better than it already is.
Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement.
I am very pleased to see the work that is going on with regard to Victim
Services, and I am especially pleased to see that this statement is mainly about
providing services to children who are victims. Children are the most vulnerable
in our society. Very often, the crimes that are perpetrated against them are
crimes of violence: both physical violence, sexual violence, even children being
taken by other people, whether family or not. Children are extremely vulnerable.
I am sure that this DVD that has been put together by the Department of
Justice will take steps towards alerting children both to their rights, to the
ways in which they can take some kind of preventative actions depending on
certain circumstances, and especially their rights once they have had a crime
perpetrated against them.
I would encourage the minister, thought - and I know that the DVD is only
meant to be a tool, and I think that is how we should see such a tool, that it
is that, and it is a tool that can be used by parents with children, and used by
teachers with children; because, with children, nothing will replace the human,
nothing will replace the personal, contact to encourage children to know what
their rights are.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.
The hon. the Minister of Education.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KING: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, last week I had the pleasure of meeting some of the Province's
extremely talented young people who are taking their science lessons to a whole
new level. The Sanofi-Aventis Bio Talent Challenge gives students the
opportunity to gain experience in real-life biotechnology research under the
guidance of scientists working in the field. The experience also gives them an
understanding of the principles of science and a chance to compete for a spot at
a national event in Ottawa. Mr. Speaker, the junior and senior high school
students participating in this year's event certainly delivered.
I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Rebecca Hollett of Holy
Heart High School on her first place win with a project that explored the use of
juniper tree extract to fight malignant breast cancer cells truly
incredible, Mr. Speaker. The second place winner was Megan House, a Grade 8
student from St. Peter's Junior High, followed by Heather Warren and Stacey
Roberts from Bishops College in third place. By every indication, these young
people have what it takes to become leaders in biotechnology research and
development.
This is why, Mr. Speaker, it is so critical that we continue to place a great
emphasis on education and providing the best education possible for all
students. Through unprecedented investments over the past several years, Mr.
Speaker, our classrooms are changing for the better.
For example, science labs are not what hon. members may remember from their
time in school. Many of us, many of you, would have been lucky to have had a
frog or a worm to dissect, or perhaps a Commodore 64 computer - we would have
been so lucky - but, Mr. Speaker, science and technology are now integral parts
of our society and therefore integral parts of our education system. In fact, in
recent years, $3.8 million has been invested to upgrade our schools' science
labs, bringing them into the twenty-first century.
Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the House here, I offer congratulations to all
students who participated in the local challenge. They are great examples of the
wonderful achievements students from across our Province are capable of, and I
offer best wishes to Ms Rebecca Hollett as she heads to the national challenge
next month.
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.
MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I want to thank the minister for the advance copy of the statement and to say
congratulations, Sir, on your new appointment. We look forward to working with
you in the months ahead.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. BUTLER: We in the Official Opposition also want to thank all those
who took part with regard to the challenges, when it comes to the field of
science, and in particular to the students who are here in the gallery today. We
want to congratulate Megan House, Heather Warren and Stacey Roberts, as well as
the winner, Ms Rebecca Hollett, on the fine job that they have done.
It was only this past week there was an individual in my district, and I hope
she continues with regards to the case that she won first place on, and that was
to explore the use of juniper tree extract, because I was told by an individual
who has another form of cancer, that this is an old remedy. I look forward to
her continuing with it because they find a real benefit to that particular
issue.
I also want to reference the comment made by the minister, how times have
changed and that maybe some of us only had a frog or a worm to dissect. The
minister knows full well where I came from, there was not a worm or a frog
there, let alone did we have a lab to do it in if we found one.
Mr. Speaker, we in the Opposition want to congratulate Rebecca and wish her
every success as she goes to the nationals in this wonderful competition.
Thank you very much.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I, too, thank the minister for the advanced copy of his first statement as
the Minister of Education and welcome him in his new role.
It is wonderful when our students can get opportunities to do the kind of
research that these young women were involved in. It makes us proud, of course,
of our system that this can happen.
It is also wonderful to see the kind of advanced things that were being dealt
with, especially the use of juniper tree extract to fight malignant breast
cancer cells. I had heard of this research going on and I really look forward to
what will happen with this research in the future and hope that Miss Hollett
will be part of some groundbreaking results as time goes on in her life.
I would like to ask the minister, though, to look into the whole thing of the
vetting by government of corporations that sponsor events in our schools. I do
have some concerns about the particular company, Sanofi-Aventis, which is the
fourth largest drug company in the world, with some reports of some of their
practices in research. I think it would be good to know if we have a policy that
looks at corporations that do get involved with our students and if there are
practices that they take
part in that we would not want to see shared with
students. What kind of materials do they share with students? What is the role
that they play?
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers?
Oral questions.
Oral Questions
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, it has been another three weeks of bad news from AbitibiBowater
and unfortunately for its former employees in the Grand Falls-Windsor region.
Mr. Speaker, we have seen three more weeks of inaction on this issue by the
government opposite.
On April 17 AbitibiBowater entered bankruptcy protection, thereby cancelling
severance benefits for workers, these severance payments that were to provide
security to these workers at a time when they were without employment.
I ask the Premier today: Now that AbitibiBowater has cancelled these payments
is government willing to step up for these workers, make the payments and deduct
the amount from what will be paid for the expropriated assets?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, just one point of clarification. Abitibi is in creditor
protection, not bankruptcy protection, and there are some nuances to that that
are important that we understand.
With respect to the question that the Leader of Opposition asked about, as
has been indicated by this government many times, we are certainly going to be
standing up for the workers and with the workers of AbitibiBowater, but in terms
of doing that we are not going to let the corporate entity of AbitibiBowater off
the hook for the obligations that they have incurred and that they have on a
go-forward basis.
We will ensure, as a government, that AbitibiBowater lives up to its
obligations and we will also ensure that at the end of the day the workers
receive what it is that they are entitled to receive from that company.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, it is fine for the government to say that we will
work to ensure that this company lives up to its obligations, but the fact is
that this company was not capable of meeting these obligations. That is why they
have already filed for creditor protection, Mr. Speaker.
On Friday, we learned that 119 former AbitibiBowater loggers in Central
Newfoundland were losing their early retirement funding. This funding provided
$1,200 to $1,400 a month in bridge payments until they were officially able to
retire. These payments were agreed upon with workers who retired before the mill
closed.
I ask the Premier today: Is government going to do anything to provide
financial assistance to these workers now that they have been told the payments
will not be coming?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SKINNER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the hon. Leader of the Opposition is correct, AbitibiBowater
employees, 119 in total, were engaged in a workforce reduction program whereby
they and their union, in negotiation with the company AbitibiBowater, did
receive some-$1,200 to $1,400 per month to bridge them to a retirement age.
Once again, Mr. Speaker, the company, in its callus way, has decided to break
that arrangement with the employees and have indicated to them that they will
not be paying it. Their union has already countered with a challenge on that.
There are legal ramifications that must be explored before anything else is to
happen. It is those kinds of decisions, in terms of moving forward in the
appropriate way with the processes that are in place, that are being followed by
the union and will also be explored by the Government of Newfoundland and
Labrador.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
AbitibiBowater has launched a challenge to the Province's expropriation of
company assets and the Premier appears to have great confidence in the
government's ability to defend these actions. However, this process will take
years to wind its way through the courts and the workers need assistance now.
I ask the Premier: Is it right that these workers are now caught between a
company who is broke and a government who has retrieved the assets but are
unwilling to pay out the money that is duly owed the employees?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SKINNER: Mr. Speaker, on this side it is not a government that is
unwilling to pay out any monies for obligations for which we are responsible. We
are currently in negotiation with AbitibiBowater on an expropriation of assets.
They have, as is their right, instituted a NAFTA challenge and that has its
processes that, potentially, will go through the court system. There may be an
agreement that would happen before that. Any obligations that our government
has, we will pay monies on for those obligations. Some of those can be
negotiated; some of those may be mandated through some type of a court process,
but any obligations this government has, this government will live to, Mr.
Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: I ask the minister if he could give us an update as to what the
status of the negotiations are that he just alluded to and if they are only in
the context of the NAFTA challenge or if they are also dealing with other issues
around the pension fund and around the wage bridging program that the workers
have just been told they are losing?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we have stated quite publicly a number of times the parameters
of the talks that we are having with AbitibiBowater. They concern compensation
of value for the bricks and mortar assets of their generating facilities,
environmental remediation, and severance for the silviculture workers and the
harvesters, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you.
Maybe the minister can tell me if there is some timeline around when they are
hoping to conclude those negotiations because there are a lot of workers out
there waiting to see if they are actually going to get paid those severance
benefits or not.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Natural Resources and Deputy
Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, this government would have liked to have concluded those talks
several weeks ago. We can only move as quickly as AbitibiBowater will allow us
to do in this circumstance.
We are more than prepared to pay a fair market value for the assets, but we
also have to make sure that the environmental remediation is taken care of, and
that the severance package is fully what is owed, we feel, morally, if not
legally, to the former workers of AbitibiBowater.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
On April 7 I asked the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural Development
about a case of former AbitibiBowater workers who had fallen between the cracks
of Abitibi and Nalcor Energy.
These workers were expropriated by Nalcor, along with the power assets,
without any severance or holiday payments, and some have even been laid off.
They have been told by both parties, you do not deal with me; you deal with the
company. They have been told by the company, you deal with Nalcor Energy.
Mr. Speaker, this is a critical matter. At the time, the minister indicated
that they were looking at some resolution. I would like to ask today, has the
issue been resolved, and give us an update on where it is now.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SKINNER: Mr. Speaker, again, the workers were not expropriated by
Nalcor. I just want to make that point, first of all. There were assets that
were expropriated, and there were decisions made by AbitibiBowater that the
workers were employees of Nalcor. That is the decision that AbitibiBowater made.
That, Mr. Speaker, in our opinion, and in the opinion of the union
representing the workers, is fundamentally incorrect. They were employees of
AbitibiBowater. AbitibiBowater laid those workers off, and AbitibiBowater has
not, as we know, lived to its obligations with regard to severance.
There were some workers who, after being laid off by AbitibiBowater, were
re-employed by Nalcor but there are some who were not, and we believe that
AbitibiBowater has an obligation to those workers, as does their union.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The minister should know that these workers do feel like they have been
expropriated, and they feel like they are caught in the middle, just where the
assets are: between a huge disagreement between government and the company.
Mr. Speaker, I ask the minister again today: Knowing full well that
AbitibiBowater is not prepared to pay out the holiday pay and the severances
that are owed these workers who are now employed by Nalcor Energy, will
government and Nalcor work to ensure that the financial rewards they were due
are indeed paid?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SKINNER: Mr. Speaker, we have said it publicly - I have said it
myself here in this House, some of my colleagues have said it we will ensure
that all of the workers of AbitibiBowater who are entitled to things from
AbitibiBowater, as their former employer, will receive what it is that they are
entitled to with regard to their severance, for instance.
We are working diligently with the workers, with the unions, to ensure that
all of the obligations of AbitibiBowater are realized. It is a very complicated
process, Mr. Speaker. It involves a number of jurisdictions provincially,
federally and internationally in terms of the labour laws, and we have to be
very careful about how we do this so that we do not compromise what it is our
end result is that we are trying to achieve.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
A group of former AbitibiBowater workers in the fifty-two and under age group
formed a committee a number of weeks ago to propose an economic stimulus package
that would benefit the Central Region while providing benefits to those same
workers who are unable to access a pension.
I ask the Premier today: Has his government given any consideration to this
proposal? If so, what action do you intend to take to help these workers?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SKINNER: Mr. Speaker, I am in receipt - and I assume this is what the
hon. Opposition Leader is referring to - I am in receipt of a proposal from one
gentleman who has indicated he is representing about 100 gentlemen, and he
called it, in the discussion I had with him, a pension bridging exercise, not an
economic stimulus package, so I assume we are talking about the same thing. That
pension bridging piece of information, I have received. I have passed it on to
my officials to review and to come back with some commentary to me on it. Once
that is done, I will make some decision as to whether or not that is something
we want to pursue further, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In the next few weeks the people of Newfoundland and Labrador could be facing
a nursing strike. Nurses have agreed to government's wage proposal but are
frustrated with two particular clauses in the agreement, namely: the extended
earnings loss benefits and the market adjustment clauses.
I ask the Premier today - I know that both sides have made compromises, but I
ask again: Why won't government move away from these two clauses in order to
avoid a nursing strike in the Province?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We have made a most generous offer to the nurses, Mr. Speaker, in this time
of economic recession - a 27 per cent increase to the top-tier nurses, and a 31
per cent increase to the starting nurse, along with signing bonuses, bursaries -
but it is all part of a package. The package that we have put on the table
included two clauses which have been signed off by 30,000 other public sector
employees represented by all of the major unions. So, what we have done, we have
said this is where we are, this is the package we are willing to offer, and it
is a package.
Mr. Speaker, in terms of the market adjustment and the extended earnings
loss, I really do not know what the difficulty is. All of these other unions
have signed off. We feel that this offer is most generous. In fact, it is
unheard of in these economic times.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I hear what the minister is saying, but it is not
a good rationale to have nurses on the street today in this Province, or looking
to go on the street in this Province, in the form of a strike simply because
everyone else has done it so you have to do it. To me, it is not a good
argument.
Mr. Speaker, the minister indicated that the market adjustment clause would
be accepted by nurses as market adjustments are already happening, such as
sign-on bonuses and relocation incentives. Minister, you know that these things
are very different. What you are proposing is that nurses who work side by side
in the same health care facilities would receive different pay for the same job.
I ask you: How do you expect this kind of proposed market adjustment to bring
stability and to be able to maintain nurses in our health care system?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, again, and I speak for everyone on this side of the House, and I
am sure everyone in this Chamber, we all appreciate the role that nurses play in
our health care system -
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: - but, as a government, there is only so far that we can go.
What we have done is we have addressed the situations of recruitment and
retention. We have done that through the raises that have been put forward. They
said to us, we do not want pattern bargaining applied. So we done that; we have
gone outside the template. We have never said - I have never said, nor am I
aware of the Minister of Health ever saying - that we will pay two people
working side by side more money.
The purpose of the market adjustment letter is to give us maximum flexibility
in addressing recruitment and retention issues and thereby addressing what
nurses are saying to us, that their concern is about work conditions and the
ability to have time off.
What we have said is that we need the flexibility, and I am not aware - maybe
the Minister of Health can point out, but I am not aware - of two nurses working
side by side where Eastern Health or any other health board is paying one more
than the other.
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
You may not be aware of it now, and it is not what we want to see, and what
you are proposing is just that.
This minister knows that he and his government have already broken the
template for bargaining - he has said that - so why not go all the way? Why not
go all the way? What is there to gain by government, to insist that these
clauses stay in an agreement? We know what the loss is to patients in this
Province. It is a loss of stability in our health care system when nurses are on
the street.
So, Minister, is this going to be financial savings for the government in
some way? Is that why you are so stuck on ensuring that this clause is in the
agreement?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
We are not stuck on anything, other than improving this health care system
and making it as good as it can be.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: However, Mr. Speaker, there comes a point in time when that
average Newfoundlander who is making the $25,000 or $30,000 or $35,000 who has
gotten that 21 per cent increase. We have now gone to the point where we are at
31 per cent.
Federal service employees, Mr. Speaker, got a 6 per cent raise over four
years. Now, what we are trying to do, Mr. Speaker, is be fair. We feel we are
being fair and reasonable. The market adjustment is currently being applied out
there where we have health boards applying it inconsistently and perhaps it
could be said, unfairly.
What we want to do is bring all of this under one roof, under Treasury Board,
where we can apply a consistent policy and ensure that the very issues that the
nurses' union is complaining about will not occur. That is the purpose of what
we are doing here, Mr. Speaker. Again, I have heard nothing but good in the last
week or so, despite the threat of this impending strike, of the way that nurses
have treated people, the care and compassion with which they are treating
people. All we can say, Mr. Speaker, is we have been fair and we are continuing
to be fair.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, if this is not going to achieve any kind of
savings for government, if the real objective here is to get nurses to stay on
the job and not walk off the job in the form of a strike, I have to ask the
minister: Why are they not prepared to go to binding arbitration? There are no
monetary issues here. It is simply issues of policy that can be decided by an
outside party.
So I ask you and your government, to avoid a nursing strike in this Province,
to ensure that there is protection for the health care of the people of the
Province, will you not agree to go to binding arbitration on those two clauses?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Speaker, we are acutely aware - again, everyone on this
side of the House and everyone in this Chamber - of the impact of a pending
strike on the patients and the health care system of this Province. Our number
one concern are the patients. However, Mr. Speaker, there comes a point when we
have gone as far as we can go.
In this particular case, Mr. Speaker, the government, we have given, we have
given, we have given. Recruitment and retention, we are addressing it, Mr.
Speaker. Working conditions, we are addressing it, Mr. Speaker. These issues
have been signed on, and, Mr. Speaker, they were not easily accepted by some of
the other unions. So what we are trying to do here is maintain the consistency,
Mr. Speaker, treat all our public sector employees alike. We have said to the
nurses, we value your work, we know the role that you play, we are giving you
the biggest increase in this country right now. In relation to that, Mr.
Speaker, there has to be something back. There has to be something in it. In
this particular case all we are asking, Mr. Speaker, the two clauses that every
other union in this Province has signed onto are accepted. I do not think, Mr.
Speaker, that is an unreasonable request. In fact, it confuses me, I say to the
Leader of the Opposition, as to why the union has made such a big deal about
these two issues.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
It was recently revealed my questions are for the Premier that the
former PC Party Leader, Mr. Byrne, inappropriately used public funds to pay a
party worker $3,000 in the 2001 St. Barbe by-election. As the Premier knows,
taxpayer money is not permitted to be used for such expenses. It was also
identified in the Byrne Statement of Facts that one Gus Coombs, a PC candidate
in 1999, inappropriately used $2,000 for an election expense. The same statement
of facts referred to helicopter use to travel to that district around the same
time for the St. Barbe by-election.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order please!
The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In addition, there were also three lawyers paid $13,000 for PC Party work
from Mr. Byrne's constituency allowance.
I ask the Premier: Will Mr. Byrne be repaying this money pursuant to the
restitution order, or will the PC Party of Newfoundland and Labrador be
reimbursing the taxpayers for money specifically used for PC Party operations?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, just let me begin by saying that the Chief Electoral Officer is
an officer of this House and we have every confidence in his ability to deal
with this matter.
Mr. Speaker, we were not aware of these circumstances, as the Opposition
House Leader has said. We became aware of them in the Statement of Facts in the
case of Mr. Byrne.
Mr. Speaker, we were more than prepared to pay back the funds from Party
resources but we understand that the courts have ordered Mr. Byrne to repay
these funds.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, these instances are in the Agreed Statement of Facts relating to
this case and there may well be many other examples of inappropriate expenses
that have not been uncovered or reported.
I ask the Premier and the government: Are you willing to support an
independent third-party investigation into election campaigns, to determine
whether any other inappropriate funds were channeled to the Progressive
Conservative Party of Newfoundland and Labrador?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I said in my earlier answer, we have every confidence in the Chief
Electoral Officer and his ability to deal with these issues. If there was
impropriety it was not by the PC Party of Newfoundland and Labrador.
The facts were discovered, Mr. Speaker, because the Auditor General was
allowed back into this House and able to audit the affairs of MHAs; the same
Auditor General who was kicked out of the House by members opposite.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In case the minister was not aware of it, the individual in question, Mr.
Byrne, was the leader of the Progressive Conservative Party of Newfoundland and
Labrador when this happened.
Mr. Speaker, all parties have supported investigations into problems that
have been identified in other areas. For example, in health care we asked
Justice Cameron to investigate, in Justice we asked Justice Lamer to
investigate, in the House of Assembly
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The Chair is having difficulty hearing the hon. member put forward his
question. I ask members for their cooperation.
The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, in other areas, as I say, where we have had issues: in health
care we asked Justice Cameron, if it was Justice we asked Justice Lamer to come
in, and if it was the case of the House of Assembly we asked Justice Green to
come in.
I ask the Premier: Why are you so adamantly opposed to a third-party
investigation that protects the Province's electoral laws and would identify
any abuses that have occurred?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Deputy Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
As I said, Mr. Speaker, we have every confidence in the Chief Electoral
Officer's ability to deal with this issue, we have every confidence in the
Auditor General and his ability to audit MHAs here in this House to ensure that
funds are spent appropriately, and we have every confidence in the courts of the
land to deal with any improprieties or legal misdoings that may have taken
place. All of those processes, we feel, Mr. Speaker, adequately protect the
people of the Province.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
In a public statement, the Chief Electoral Officer, Mr. Reynolds, justified
his decision by stating that Mr. Byrne had already been convicted and dealt with
by the courts, therefore no need to investigate.
I say to the Premier, who we all know is also a lawyer: Why are we refusing
an investigation under the Elections Act, which is a totally separate issue than
anything the former member might have done under the Criminal Code?
Absolutely separate, got nothing to do with each other: Why is this
government refusing, when they claim to be open and transparent, to allow such
an independent investigation?
Thank you.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I ask members for their co-operation.
Members may not agree with the questions being posed, but the member has
every right to ask the question, and a minister identified has every right to
provide an answer.
The hon. the Deputy Premier.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we are not interested in hiding anything. That is why we brought
the Auditor General back in.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MS DUNDERDALE: That is why these investigations have taken place. That is
why these court proceedings have taken place. It is because we believe in
transparency and accountability.
We did not turf the Auditor General out. We brought the Auditor General in
and said, have a good, close look at what is going on here, and if there is any
inappropriate activity, then deal with it. He has done that, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS DUNDERDALE: And the Chief Electoral Officer will do the same. We have
every confidence that he has the tools and the ability to take whatever action
is required surrounding these issues, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, on Thursday and Friday past I spent time in Grand Falls-Windsor.
I spent time with the workers who have been displaced because of the closure of
the mill. I have heard what they are going through at this moment. I spoke with
the workers who cannot get their severance, with the loggers who cannot get the
workplace reduction program that they expected. I have also spoken with workers
who have told me there are people who are now going to social assistance.
So I have a question for the Premier, and my question is: If this government
is so sure that you can negotiate with AbitibiBowater to get the severance
covered and the workplace reduction program money covered, if you are so sure
you can do that, why won't you put money up front to deal with what the
workers are going through right now at this moment?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SKINNER: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we have been meeting with the workers out there for a long time,
and we did not just hear their story the last couple of days. We have been out
there many times. We knew that there were troubles with that company. We have
been working with the employees out there and with their union representatives.
Mr. Speaker, I alluded to, in response to an earlier question, that this a
very complex issue. With all due respect to the hon. member, I do not want to
denigrate what she is saying, it is not as easy as just writing a cheque, and
covering something off by writing a cheque, and I understand that is not how she
may exactly have meant it, but there are things we have to do. Because of the
legal processes that are open to the company, because of legal processes that
are open to the unions and the employees, we have to be very careful not to do
something that may damage - what it is we are trying to achieve here is to see
that those employees receive their severances at the end of the day. So we have
to be very careful how we do things. The suggestion being made is not something
that we believe is something we should be doing at this time.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Last Thursday and Friday were not the first times that I have been out to
Grand Falls-Windsor, not the first times I have met with the workers; just so
the minister is aware of that fact.
I am well aware of the situation, and I am also well aware of the frustration
that they are going through. These workers, right now, are getting more and more
frustrated with every day. The message they gave to me loud and clear on
Thursday and Friday was that they are not feeling, at the moment, that the
government is carrying their needs.
I ask the Premier: Why can't this government give a clearer explanation to
them so that they will feel something is going on to meet their needs?
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SKINNER: Mr. Speaker, I share the frustration of the hon. member
opposite, I share the frustration of the employees, and we should be directing
it to the appropriate place. The appropriate place is not this government. It is
the company that has made these callous and heartless decisions that are
impacting the employees that we are speaking about in this House of Assembly
every day.
We are reacting to what the company is doing. We are trying to make sure that
the employees, at the end of the day, receive everything that they are entitled
to receive. Because of the complexities, it is not my place to go out and
explain all of those complexities because I am not in a position to do that, but
the union has access to legal opinions. Other people, the employees themselves
can certainly engage, if they wish, legal opinions. I can just tell you as a
layperson, not a lawyer, that there are legal complexities that I have to be
very careful about what it is I do as chair of the task force not to compromise
what it is we are trying to achieve.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi
Vidi.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
I am not asking the minister or the Premier to go out and explain the
position of AbitibiBowater. I am asking them to explain to the workers why they
are so confident when they say they are going to take care of them, because they
do not see themselves being taken care of. Explain your own position to them,
Minister. That is what I am asking for.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Innovation, Trade and Rural
Development.
MR. SKINNER: Mr. Speaker, first of all, we have always said, as a
government, that the obligations to the employees regarding the severance are
AbitibiBowater obligations. By taking care of that obligation we have indicated
already, publicly and to the workers, that we will do everything within our
power to ensure that we exert whatever pressure, whatever influence, whatever
legal authority that we may have on the company to live to its obligations.
There are, as I said, legal processes involved here. To do something like the
member opposite suggested may in actual fact be illegal for us to be doing. It
may in actual fact be something that we cannot do. These are federal laws that
govern these things. As I indicated earlier, there are also international and
provincial laws but the particular example that the member uses has to do with
federal laws that we have to be very cognizant of and respectful of and, again,
not compromise what it is we are trying to achieve here.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
The time allotted for questions and answers has expired.
I would like to ask hon. members - when the hon. Opposition House Leader
stood to deliver a member's statement he had trouble looking at his light,
noticing that the light was not working. I have been informed by Broadcast that
if members have been identified by the Chair to speak and if the light directly
in front of their own microphone is not working, they can look to either side
and if either one of those lights are working continue to speak. The Broadcast
Centre has had some difficulty with some of the microphones. If they switch to
the microphone adjacent to the microphoned person who has been identified to
have the floor, the microphones are sensitive enough to pick up the speech. So I
ask members to continue to speak if there is a light close by them that has been
lit. Just for information purposes.
Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.
Tabling of Documents.
Tabling of Documents
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.
MS WHALEN: Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to stand today and table the annual
report from the Public Utilities Board on operations carried out under the
Automobile Insurance Act.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Further tabling of documents?
As Speaker of the House of Assembly I have three reports to table. One is a
report from the Chief Electoral Officer on election finances for the
by-elections held in the electoral districts of Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi on
November 1, 2006; Ferryland, February 8, 2007; the District of Kilbride on
February 8, 2007; Port au Port, February 8, 2007; the District of Humber Valley,
February 12, 2007; and from Labrador West on March 13, 2007.
A further report, which is the annual report of the Chief Electoral Officer
on election finances of registered political parties for the period January 1,
2007 to December 31, 2007.
A final report is a report from the Chief Electoral Officer on election
finances for the October 9, 2007 General Election.
Further tabling of documents.
Notices of Motion.
Notices of Motion
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.
MR. KELVIN PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Pursuant to Standing Order 63.(3) of the Standing Orders of the House, I give
notice, Wednesday being Private Members' Day for the Official Opposition, of
the following motion, moved by the Member for Burgeo & LaPoile, seconded by
the Member for Port de Grave.
WHEREAS it has been revealed in a court of law through a statement of facts
agreed to by both the defence and the prosecution in the case of R. v. Edward
Byrne that improperly received public funds were used to finance political
campaigns of the Progressive Conservative Party of Newfoundland and Labrador;
and
WHEREAS these improperly received funds were not recorded or received or
spent as per the provisions of the Elections Act and associated regulations; and
WHEREAS the Chief Electoral Officer of the Province, through his actions and
inactions, has been shown to be compromised and biased in his ability and
willingness to investigate potential misconduct on the part of members of the
governing party; and
WHEREAS it is in the public interest to determine the precise nature and
extent of this channelling of improperly received public funds into campaigns of
the Progressive Conservative Party of Newfoundland and Labrador in order to
ensure public confidence in our political system and our government;
THEREFORE
BE IT RESOLVED that the House of Assembly calls for an independent,
third-party investigation to determine the extent and nature of transfer of
public funds into partisan political operations and campaigns of the Progressive
Conservative Party of Newfoundland and Labrador.
MR. SPEAKER: Further notices of motion.
Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given.
Petitions.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
Orders of the Day.
Orders of the Day
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MS BURKE: I am going to go to Motions, Mr. Speaker, to some first
readings.
I move, seconded by the hon.
Minister of Health and Community Services, for leave to introduce a bill
entitled,
An Act Respecting Chiropractors. (Bill 8)
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
I have to ask members for their co-operation. The Chair is difficulty hearing
the Government House Leader put forward Orders of the Day. I ask members to take
their conversations outside or, if they are eager to get involved in the debate,
to come forward on Wednesday, and to hold off until Orders of the Day is called
at that particular time.
Right now we are dealing with Monday, April 27, and I am asking the
Government House Leader to provide Orders of the Day.
MS BURKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!
MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!
MS BURKE: I will start again, Mr. Speaker, with the Order that I had been
addressing.
Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. Minister of Health and Community
Services, for leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act Respecting
Chiropractors. (Bill 8)
I further move that the said bill be now read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of
Health and Community Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled, An
Act Respecting Chiropractors, Bill 8, and that the said bill be now read a first
time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the said minister shall have leave to
introduce Bill 8 and that Bill 8 be now read a first time?
All those in favour, 'aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services to introduce a
bill, "An Act Respecting Chiropractors," carried. (Bill 8)
CLERK: A bill,
An Act Respecting Chiropractors. (Bill 8)
MR. SPEAKER: Bill 8 has now been read a first time.
When shall Bill 8 be read a second time?
MS BURKE: Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 8 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. Minister of Finance
and President of Treasury Board, for leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act
To Amend The Labour-Sponsored Venture Capital Tax Credit Act. (Bill 3)
I further move that the said bill be now read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of
Finance and President of Treasury Board shall have leave to introduce a bill
entitled,
An Act To Amend The Labour-Sponsored Venture Capital Tax Credit Act,
Bill 3, and that the said bill be now read a first time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the Minister of Finance and President of
Treasury Board shall have leave to introduce Bill 3, and that the said bill be
now read a first time?
All those in favour, 'aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board to
introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Labour-Sponsored Venture Capital Tax
Credit Act," carried. (Bill 3)
CLERK: A bill,
An Act To Amend The Labour-Sponsored Venture Capital Tax
Credit Act. (Bill 3)
MR. SPEAKER: Bill 3 has now been read a first time.
When shall the said bill be read a second time?
MS BURKE: Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 3 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader .
MS BURKE : : Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. the Minister
of Education, for leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend The
Student Financial Assistance Act. (Bill 9)
I further move that the said bill be now read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of
Education shall have leave to introduce a bill,
An Act To Amend The Student
Financial Assistance Act, Bill 9, and that the said bill be now read a first
time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the Minister of Education shall have
leave to introduce Bill 9, and that this bill be now read a first time?
All those in favour, 'aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Education to introduce a bill, "An Act
To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act," carried. (Bill 9)
Is it the pleasure of the House that the Minister of Education shall have
leave to introduce Bill 9, and that this bill be now read a first time?
All those in favour, 'aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Education to introduce a bill, "An Act
To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act," carried. (Bill 9)
CLERK: A bill,
An Act To Amend The Student Financial Assistance Act.
(Bill 9)
MR. SPEAKER: Bill 9 has been now read a first time.
When shall the said bill be read a second time?
MS BURKE: Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 9 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. the Minister of
Government Services, for leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend The
Highway Traffic Act. (Bill 10)
I further move that the said bill be now read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. Minister of
Government Services shall have leave to introduce a bill,
An Act To Amend The
Highway Traffic Act, Bill 10, and that the said bill be now read a first time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. minister shall have leave to
introduce Bill 10, and that the said bill be now read a first time?
All those in favour, 'aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Nay.
MR. SPEAKER: The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. Minister of Government Services to introduce a bill,
"An Act To Amend The Highway Traffic Act," carried. (Bill 10)
CLERK: A bill,
An Act To Amend The Highway Traffic Act. (Bill 10)
MR. SPEAKER: Bill 10 has now been read a first time.
When shall the said bill be read a second time?
MS BURKE: Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 10 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. the Minister of
Government Services, for leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act Respecting
Credit Unions. (Bill 11)
I further move that the said bill be now read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER: It is properly moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister
of Government Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act
Respecting Credit Unions, Bill 11, and that the said bill be now read a first
time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the Minister of Government Services
shall have leave to introduce Bill 11, and that the said bill be now read a
first time?
All those in favour, 'aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services to introduce a bill,
"An Act Respecting Credit Unions," carried. (Bill 11)
CLERK: A bill,
An Act Respecting Credit Unions. (Bill 11)
MR. SPEAKER: Bill 11 has now been read a first time.
When shall the said bill be read a second time?
MS BURKE: Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 11 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. the Minister of
Health and Community Services, for leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To
Amend The Pharmacy Act. (Bill 12)
I further move that the said bill be now read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER: It is properly moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister
of Health and Community Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend The Pharmacy Act, Bill 12, and that Bill 12 be now read a first
time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the Minister of Health and Community
Services shall have leave to introduce Bill 12, and that the said bill be now
read a first time?
All those in favour, 'aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services to introduce a
bill, "An Act To Amend The Pharmacy Act," carried. (Bill 12)
CLERK: A bill,
An Act To Amend The Pharmacy Act. (Bill 12)
MR. SPEAKER: Bill 12 has now been read a first time.
When shall the said bill be read a second time?
MS BURKE: Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 12 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. Minister of Justice
and Attorney General, for leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend
The Children's Law Act, Bill 13; and I further move that the said bill be now
read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER: It is properly moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister
of Justice and the Attorney General shall have leave to introduce a bill
entitled,
An Act To Amend The Children's Law Act, Bill 13; and that Bill 13 be
now read a first time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the Minister of Justice and the Attorney
General shall have leave to introduce Bill 13, and that this bill be now read a
first time?
All those in favour, 'aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice and the Attorney General to
introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Children's Law Act," carried.
(Bill 13)
CLERK: A bill, "An Act To Amend The Children's Law Act," Bill
MR. SPEAKER: Bill 13 has now been read a first time. When shall Bill 13
be read a second time?
MS BURKE: Tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 13 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. the Minister of
Municipal Affairs, for leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend The
City Of St. John's Act, Bill 14; and I further move that the said bill be now
read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER: It is properly moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister
of Municipal Affairs shall ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To
Amend The City Of St. John's Act, Bill 14, and that Bill 14 be now read a
first time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the Minister of Municipal Affairs shall
have leave to introduce Bill 14, and that the said bill be now read a first
time?
All those in favour, 'aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs to
introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The City Of St. John's Act, carried.
(Bill 14)
CLERK: A bill, "An Act To Amend The City Of St. John's
Act," bill 14.
MR. SPEAKER: Bill 14 has now been read a first time. When
shall Bill 14 be read a second time?
MS BURKE: Tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 14 read a first time, ordered read a second
time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon.
Minister of Justice and Attorney General, for leave to introduce a bill
entitled,
An Act To Amend The Legal Aid Act, Bill 15; and I further move that
the said bill be now read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER: It is properly moved and seconded that the
hon. the Minister of Justice and the Attorney General shall have leave to
introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend The Legal Aid Act, Bill 15, and that
Bill 15 be now read a first time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the minister shall have
leave to introduce Bill 15, and that the said bill be now read a first time?
All those in favour, 'aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice and the Attorney
General to introduce a bill,
An Act To Amend The Legal Aid Act, carried. (Bill
15)
CLERK: A bill, "An Act To Amend The Legal Aid
Act," Bill 15.
MR. SPEAKER: Bill 15 has now been read a first time. When
shall Bill 15 be read a second time?
MS BURKE: Tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 15 read a first time, ordered read a second
time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. the Minister of
Health and Community Services, for leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To
Amend the Tobacco Control Act, Bill 17.
I further move that the said bill be now read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER: It is properly moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister
of Health and Community Services shall have leave to introduce a bill,
An Act To
Amend The Tobacco Control Act, Bill 17, and that Bill 17 be now read a first
time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the Minister of Health and
Community Services shall have leave to introduce Bill 17 and that the said bill
be now read a first time?
All those in favour, 'aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services to introduce a
bill, "An Act To Amend The Tobacco Control Act," carried. (Bill 17)
CLERK: A bill,
An Act To Amend The Tobacco Control Act. (Bill 17)
MR. SPEAKER: Bill 17 has now been read a first time.
When shall Bill 17 be read a second time?
MS BURKE: Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 17 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. the Minister of
Justice and the Attorney General, for leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act
To Amend The Judicature Act, Bill 18, and I further move that the said bill be
now read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER: It is properly moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister
of Justice and the Attorney General shall have leave to introduce a bill
entitled,
An Act To Amend The Judicature Act, Bill 18, and that the said bill be
now read a first time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the Minister of Justice and the Attorney
General shall have leave to introduce Bill 18 and that the said bill be now read
a first time?
All those in favour, 'aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Justice and the Attorney General to
introduce a bill, "An Act To Amend The Judicature Act," carried. (Bill
18)
CLERK: A bill,
An Act To Amend The Judicature Act. (Bill 18)
MR. SPEAKER: Bill 18 has now been read a first time.
When shall Bill 18 be read a second time?
MS BURKE: Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 18 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the hon. the Minister of
Government Services, for leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To Amend The
Income Tax Savings Plans Act, Bill 19, and I further move that the said bill be
now read a first time.
MR. SPEAKER: It is moved and seconded that the hon. the Minister of
Government Services shall have leave to introduce a bill entitled,
An Act To
Amend The Income Tax Savings Plans Act, Bill 19, and that Bill 19 be now read a
first time.
Is it the pleasure of the House that the hon. the Minister of Government
Services shall have leave to introduce Bill 19 and that the said bill be now
read a first time?
All those in favour, 'aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.
The motion is carried.
Motion, the hon. the Minister of Government Services to introduce a bill,
"An Act To Amend The Income Tax Savings Plans Act," carried. (Bill 19)
CLERK: A bill,
An Act To Amend The Income Tax Savings Plans Act. (Bill
19)
MR. SPEAKER: Bill 19 has now been read a first time.
When shall the said bill be read a second time?
MS BURKE: Tomorrow, Mr. Speaker.
MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow.
On motion, Bill 19 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader.
MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, as we move through the business of today in the
House, I move, seconded by the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury
Board, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole House of
Supply to consider the Estimates for the Consolidated Revenue Services and the
Executive Council.
MR. SPEAKER: The motion is that this House now resolve itself into a
Committee of Supply and that I do now leave the Chair.
All those in favour, 'aye'.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Aye.
MR. SPEAKER: All those against, 'nay'.
The motion is carried.
On motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, Mr.
Speaker left the Chair.
Committee of the Whole
CHAIR (Osborne): Order please!
The hon. the Government House Leader.
MS BURKE: Mr. Chair, in the Committee of the Whole on Supply this
afternoon we will debate the Estimates for the Executive Council and the
Consolidated Fund Services, and that debate will be led by the Minister of
Finance and President of Treasury Board.
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, we are now in the process of going through what is referred to as
the Estimates in relation to Executive Council. The Estimates, as I reviewed
Hansard from last year to try to get a view as to why we are in the House of
Assembly as opposed to in Committee, as we have done in other departments like
Finance. I reviewed the comments of then Deputy Premier Rideout, where he
indicated that apparently into the mid 1980s, Estimates would be done in the
House of Assembly. It has gotten to the point now where we do so much in
Committee. By that I mean - I will go through the process in a second. There is
a Committee comprised of Opposition members, government members, and there is an
opportunity to ask questions. It is part of the Budget process, I suppose one
could say. The Budget process it is perhaps helpful to outline how that
whole process commences.
Each government department has to come forward at the beginning of the
fiscal, or leaning towards the beginning of the fiscal year with their proposed
expenditures for the following year. As a government then we look at our
revenues. What do we expect to have come in? Of course, what we have heard so
much in this Province, Mr. Chairman, has been a downturn in the price of oil and
other commodities, which affects our revenues. Of course, if your expenditures
exceed your revenues that is where you end up in a deficit situation as we are
this year.
So the budget process goes department by department, and in the departments,
Mr. Chairman, they are then responsible for example, in the Department of
Health, the health boards come in looking for money. So when we have a total
budget of the Department of Health this year, I think it is $2.4 billion, and it
could be as high as $2.6 billion, it is all proportioned and we look at where
the money is being spent as best you can.
Then, under the Department of Justice, for example, you would have the police
forces, the Sheriff's Office, the correctional officers, or the prisons, I
suppose, to put it more appropriately, come in, and they would outline the money
they need.
Mr. Chairman, we then look at all of that. There are discussions. Each
minister comes forward in front of the Premier and the Minister of Finance in
what is referred to as the budget defence. With the budget defence, then, there
is: Why do you need this many positions? What are you going to do with this
money that we give you? What happened last year?
There is a rigorous process, Mr. Chairman, and it is ongoing for months at a
time. My colleague, the now Minister of Justice, who was Minister of Finance
before me, will tell you that the process itself is time-consuming. It involves
an unbelievable amount of work, Mr. Chairman, by departmental officials,
especially the Finance Department officials, as they put it all together.
Then, Mr. Chairman, when Budget day arrives, we come forward and there is a
Budget Speech. Also, there are other documents, and the number of documents
include, for example, Estimates 2009, Departmental Salary Details.
The Opposition and government members are then given an opportunity, Mr.
Chairman, and it can be, for example - I am the Minister Responsible for the
Office of the Chief Information Officer and also the Public Service Commission.
We were here this morning and the Opposition House Leader and the Leader of the
NDP, the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, along with members from the
government party, were given an opportunity to ask questions.
In essence, Mr. Chairman, we do it one department at a time. Last year, my
first exposure to it would have been in Justice. It is an interesting process,
because the Committee is given an opportunity to look almost line by line in
terms of the budget: This is what you spent last year; why are you spending this
much this year? What has happened? Where did the money go?
Mr. Chairman, in this booklet here, Departmental Salary Details, department
by department it is broken down in terms of who is being not names, but the
number of positions that are held. Then, Mr. Chairman, in this book, the
Estimates, it outlines where the money is going and it looks at for each
department you will see the 2008-2009 Budget and then Revised and 2009-2010
Estimates.
Mr. Chairman, the Opposition - primarily the Opposition, although the
government members can also ask questions as well: What is the difference here
between this line last year, and what were these professional services that
monies were paid on?
Mr. Chairman, as I have indicated, most of these are done in Committee. It is
my understanding that they are not televised, although there has been some
discussion of the Committee meetings being televised. I personally have no great
problem with it being televised, Mr. Chairman. There are logistics involved,
there is cost involved, but from my perspective the more knowledge that is
imparted to the people of the Province as to how the process works the better.
What we want to do, Mr. Chairman, and this is consistent with our approach to
openness, transparency and accountability, is demystify the process; say to the
taxpayers of this Province, this is the money that we have and this where it is
going. We are trying to spend your money wisely.
Mr. Chairman, we are, some would say, in somewhat of a hypersensitive age
where we have gone from what appears to be, according to the report of Justice
Green, an almost lack of accountability to one where there are, I would suggest,
Mr. Chairman, very stringent requirements for accountability.
Last night I was in my office doing some work, Mr. Chairman, and 10:30 at
night I just went in and clicked on my name and looked at the monies that I had
spent as a Minister of the Crown. I think that is very important, Mr. Chairman,
that myself and my colleagues, and all MHAs, that the monies that we spend are
there for people to look at.
Mr. Chairman, when we come here today, when we are doing Estimates in the
House, we are now dealing with Executive Council. Under Executive Council there
are a number of different divisions of government. What we will do in this House
this afternoon, we will do Government House.
Government House, as everyone is aware, is where the Lieutenant-Governor
resides. The Government House is a fascinating building. I have had the
opportunity on a number of occasions now to go through the building. It is just
so important to our history. Lieutenant-Governor Roberts was there, and
Lieutenant-Governor Crosbie, and they know so much about the history of the
building.
Lieutenant-Governor as the Queen's representative in our Province, but that we
incur the costs. We, being the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador, incur the
costs.
The second heading we will do in the House, or the department, will be the
Premier's Office. The Premier's Office has a staff of approximately
twenty-one people who are outlined in the Departmental Salary Details. The
Premier and his staff are on the eighth floor of Confederation Building. There
is, however, an office in Corner Brook, an office in Happy Valley-Goose Bay, in
Labrador; again, showing this government's commitment to recognizing the
importance of issues that arise off the Avalon Peninsula. So, we have the two
offices out there.
The third division we will deal with is that of Cabinet Secretariat. Now
Cabinet Secretariat, I would describe, is the support mechanism for Cabinet and
the committees of Cabinet. In order for a paper to work its way to the upper
reaches, it starts in a department. It can come from ideas in the public; it can
come from the department themselves. Eventually, someone will say: well, perhaps
we should change our policy or adopt a new policy, or adopt a policy. Someone
will say: well, maybe we should bring in a new piece of legislation. So then it
will work its way through whereby the department will prepare a paper. That
paper then goes to Cabinet Secretariat, for example, with the social policy
committee, and I think economic policy committee, where they provide an
analysis. The same thing takes place with the Public Service Secretariat in
relation to the Treasury Board papers. It then works its way to Cabinet. So that
each step of the way there are people scrutinizing from both a budgetary and a
policy and a legislative perspective the steps that as a government, or any
government, we wish to take.
The Cabinet Secretariat has Executive Support; Planning and Coordination; the
Economic and Social Policy Analysis division; Protocol office; and a Public
Service Development plan. So the role of Cabinet Secretariat is to support and
assist Cabinet.
There is also, however, as I have indicated, various other functions that
Cabinet Secretariat provides. There is also Communications and Consultation, and
this branch gives communication advice to government as a whole. Again, salary
details are outlined in the Departmental Salary Details book and in the
Estimates 2009.
Then there are two others, the Financial Administration and Human Resource
Support and Public Service Secretariat. Public Service Secretariat performs many
functions in government. One, for example, I have already touched upon, that
being analysis of Treasury Board papers. Public Service Secretariat also is
comprised of the collective bargaining division of government which plays such
an integral role, especially in times like this where there is collective
bargaining ongoing and has been ongoing for the last, well almost eighteen
months now. Public Service Secretariat also develops policies in terms of work
conditions, work environments. It is very important that we as a government, as
said by the Chairman of the Public Service Commission earlier today in
Estimates, that we try to market ourselves and to make sure that we get
information out there which assists us as being an employer of choice.
In the Estimates now, it is my understanding today is that I will, when I am
finished speaking for fifteen minutes, then the Opposition will be given an
opportunity to speak for a similar amount of time. Then it is my understanding
that if the Opposition has questions, that the questions will be put to me as
the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board, and I will then attempt
to answer them and we will go back and forth for ten minutes.
Now what is unusual about this is that we are here in the House of Assembly
doing this as opposed to the Committee. In other words, the full House is here
today and the proceedings are televised. Now from my perspective, and I am sure
I can speak for anyone on this side of government, that is a good thing. That
we, contrary to some of the comments made during Question Period today, we are
striving to be open, transparent and accountable. One of the ways you do that,
Mr. Chair, is by saying this is the money that we have received. This is how we
are spending the money and this is the value we are getting for our money.
So, Mr. Chair, the Opposition is given the opportunity, I cannot say that I
will have the answer to every question off the top of my head when we are
looking at six different divisions of government in one form or another here
today but I will certainly try, and if I cannot answer a question I will say,
well give me an opportunity to obtain that information. I will see what I can
do.
Now, under Executive Council there are a number of other headings which have
either been done or will be done in Committee. There is Intergovernmental
Affairs, the Department of Intergovernmental Affairs. There is also the
Voluntary and Non-Profit Secretariat. It is my understanding that they have been
done. There is the Rural Secretariat, which has been done or will be done it is
my understanding, when Estimates are done for Industry, Trade and Rural
Development. Women's Policy will be done at the same time as the Department of
Natural Resources, and I would assume that is because the same minister is
responsible for the Women's Policy Office - the Minister of Natural Resources.
There is the Research and Development which will be done, also, with the
Innovation, Trade and Rural Development Estimates Committee. Then there is the
Office of the Chief Information Officer, and we had the opportunity to do that
earlier today. It was very informative, very technical. I am also the Minister
Responsible for the Office of the Chief Information Officer. The Opposition
House Leader and the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi had some good questions
today, prying questions. This is an opportunity to ask those questions, to
outline concerns, and it is all done with a view, from our perspective as a
government, to say, as best we can, this is where the money goes.
Mr. Chairman, what I say to the members of this House and the people of this
Province is that this is a good process. It allows for questioning. When you
allow for questioning, Mr. Chairman, and when you put everything there in
writing, it says to people that we are confident that we are doing the best we
can to ensure that the procedures are being followed and that we are protecting
the taxpayers of this Province as best we can.
Mr. Chairman, I see that my fifteen minutes is up and I will now move on to -
whether it be the House Leader or the Opposition - whichever Opposition member
wishes to speak.
Thank you.
CHAIR: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.
MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I certainly thank the minister for his overview comments. As he has already
said, when we do the Estimates we look at every single government department
within the Newfoundland and Labrador Legislature as well as any agencies that
may be funded or affiliated directly as part of those particular departments.
In fact, Mr. Chairman, prior to Easter week, we were able to get through the
Estimates and the budgets for a number of departments within government, some of
them which are very large expenditures because they are large departments that
provide a lot of services to people in the Province.
Mr. Chairman, as an Opposition I guess our job is always to look at each and
every line in the budget, to look at where all monies are being spent, and to
hold government accountable for that spending in terms of what it was spent on,
why it was spent, why monies sometimes are often budgeted and not spent but
carried over year over year over year in various budgets.
That is part of the job that we do as an Opposition, and most times those
particular Committee meetings are held outside of our normal day of work. Most
of our Committee meetings are held either in the mornings, outside of the House
sitting, or in the evenings, usually at 6:00 p.m. until about 9:00 o'clock or
10:00 o'clock; or, in the case of larger departments, we have often gone to
11:00 o'clock and sometimes beyond. It makes for a very long day for everyone,
there is no doubt about that, but it is a very important piece of business
because it is how we are able to determine what programs and services are
continued to be funded. It is also how we determine if there are programs and
services that may be underfunded, or funding may have been cut. It is also an
opportunity for us to learn where infrastructure spending is occurring.
Just because government makes an announcement that they are going to go out
and pave a road or build an arena, or put in water and sewer, or build a new
school, it does not actually mean that work gets done in this current year.
Sometimes it is when we find out that there could be projects on the books for
two and three years, that a school might not have been built, or a hospital
might not have been built, but is continuously being carried over. It is one of
the ways that we learn what is happening in departments.
What we are doing in the House today is the expenditure of the Office of the
Executive Council. Primarily, that is the office of the Premier, as well as the
Executive Support for the Premier's office, Cabinet Committee, the Resource
Committee, the Social Services Committee and the Policy and Planning Committee.
There are also other offices as well, some which will be dealt with here today
and others which will be dealt with, or have been dealt with, as part of the
hearings for those various departments that they are affiliated with.
Mr. Chairman, just a couple of notes that I want to make, first of all, with
relation to the Premier's office, because this was a Premier who, on being
elected to form the government in this Province, did so campaigning on a belief
that Cabinet should be smaller, that there should be fewer portfolios in
Cabinet, that there should be fewer departments in government and fewer
ministers that sit at that table. In fact, Mr. Chairman, when he was the Leader
of the Opposition he took great effort to monitor the size of the Cabinet of the
day and the positions that were being created within that Cabinet, and took
great efforts, Mr. Chairman, to be very vocal and outspoken on those particular
issues; vowing, I say, to the people of the Province, that he would lead a
government that would be smaller. He would lead a government that had fewer
bodies at the Cabinet table, that would have fewer departments in government,
and to use his own rationale for that, it was to keep down the cost to the
people of the Province, that these departments of government could be run leaner
and meaner from the top management levels.
In fact, Mr. Chairman, that commitment did not last too long; because, if you
look at how the Cabinet of this government has been inflated over the past four
to five years you will realize that we are almost on an average of one new
department every year-and-a-half. At that rate, Mr. Chairman, by the end of this
term we could see a Cabinet that will be even larger than we see today.
Today, Mr. Chairman, I think there are nineteen Cabinet ministers with
nineteen different portfolios. There are five Parliamentary Secretaries that are
paid within each of those departments, and those Parliamentary Secretaries are
MHAs as well MHAs that are duly elected in their ridings, that are given an
appointment. I guess they are seen as MHAs that have the potential to become the
next Cabinet minister if there were a vacancy. So they are appointed to those
positions in the hope that they will learn from the minister of the day in the
department that they are in, that they will learn the skills that are required
to be a minister of the Crown, and that they will one day succeed that
individual or someone else within the Cabinet.
Mr. Chairman the only difference that I see between the Cabinet that was
created under the current government, by the current Premier, the only
difference I see between that and the government that he was very critical of,
under Roger Grimes, are the differences in pay for these individuals. We have
the same number of departments, we have the same number of Cabinet ministers
if I were to go back and count, I think my memory serves me correct and we
have the same number of Parliamentary Secretaries. The only difference is, today
they are all paid far better. They are all paid far greater. They get more money
for doing the job that they do. Parliamentary Secretaries are paid better than
they were five or six years ago, and Cabinet ministers are paid better than they
had been five or six years ago, all because of public service increases, because
of negotiated wage increases and things of that nature. So, the only difference
in what the government vowed they would never do and what was in place under the
former Administration is the amount of money that is being paid out today.
Let's talk about staffing, another issue; another issue that was raised by
the government opposite and their leader when they were in Opposition. Staffing
in the Premier's office, the number of people that worked there, who those
people are, how they got there, and it was all arguments about political
patriotism. It was all arguments about being connected to the government of the
day. Well, we did not see anything different. In fact, Mr. Chair, if I wanted to
stand up here today, I have in my drawer right here two pages of individuals
that have been appointed by the government opposite, the names of those
individuals, to positions in the Province that have been either affiliated with
the Premier or with the PC caucus and the PC government, but I am not going to
get into that today because that is not the context of where I want to go. I am
just saying that sometimes those who speak, these are things that they would not
do, that does not always fall through.
Let's talk about the staff in the Premier's office because we know that
even at times when the public service wage increases were negotiated, even at
times when those wage increases where afforded to the thousands and thousands of
other public sector workers in this Province, that there was select wage offers
given to staff in the Premier's office. Very select, Mr. Chair. In fact, if
you wanted to look at it, they were given much higher wage increases than the
rest of the public service and those wage increases went to key individuals in
the Premier's office, such as his Chief of Staff, such as the Director of
Communications, special advisors, principal assistants. In fact, Mr. Chair,
directors of operations and managers of community outreach. These were the
particular positions that were given far greater wage increases and salary
benefits in addition to what was being received by other people in the public
service.
Mr. Chair, this was rationalized or justified by the Premier and the
government at the time. You have to realize that these wage increases were put
in place following a two-year wage freeze by other public servants. There was a
two-year wage freeze in 2004 and 2005. There was a 3 per cent hike in wages in
2006. It was during that time when there was a wage freeze for other public
servants that the staff in the Premier's office received anywhere from 8 per
cent to 16 per cent increases in wages.
Many of them, Mr. Chair, or some of them, were reclassified. We know what
that means. Any of us who follow public bargaining in this Province, you know
what reclassified means under the government system. It means a way to pay you
better for the job that you do. It means that we can only give you 8 per cent
raise this year, but we feel that you should be reclassified into a different
position where you will get a higher wage.
That is how government often does it, through reclassification, or through
additional and by doing that, they get additional step increases, which
means they get additional salaries because they are now in a new position. For
example, there might be an individual who might be a clerk in an office who
could be reclassified to a different level of a clerk and in doing so would get
extra benefits as well. We also know that there was reclassification done in the
Premier's office for employees who were classified to top-level positions,
which meant they got more money for the work that they were doing.
Government justified this by saying this is the kind of money that you have
to pay out if you want to keep workers in your office. If you want to keep these
people, who they considered to be very highly skilled, very intellectual
individuals, very well-researched, great understanding of how government works,
they felt they were invaluable and they had to do these kinds of measures in
order to keep them working in their office.
Well, Mr. Chair, I can understand all that. I can understand all that. I
happen to be the Leader of the Official Opposition, which is the other political
party, which happens to be the critic to the Premier's office in this
Province, but we did not see those kinds of expenditures voted for the
Opposition staff, who do the same job as the people in the Premier's office
does. You have a Director of Communications, several in fact, in the Premier's
Office, who have received high wage increases and classifications that are far
and above those of any other level of government employees doing the same job in
departments, that are far higher than employees doing the same jobs in offices
like the Opposition office or the third-Party office.
Now, some might say: well, it is a greater responsibility being the
Communications Director in the Premier's Office. I am not going to dispute or
debate that, but I also know that there is more than one person who does the job
of communications.
Whereas in some departments there is only one, in other
departments there are up to four.
I remember doing the Estimates for the Department of Health and learning that
there were actually four people doing communications in the Department of
Health. I would say they need four more over there to keep the messages
straight, because even with four employees highly paid, paid much more than I
can pay employees in my office to do the job of communications, in that
department there has been nothing only miscommunication, mixed information and
bad messaging. I would suggest they look at seeing if they can contract out a
few more.
Mr. Chairman, to maintain my point, my point is this: The Premier's Office
or a government department does not have to come to a Management Committee of
the House of Assembly, they don't have to go to an external consultant to look
at whether they should get more staff or their staff should get paid better.
They can arbitrarily, as a government and as a Cabinet, give wage increases, do
reclassifications, and create new jobs in those offices whenever they want to.
CHAIR: Order, please!
I remind the hon. member that her time for speaking has expired.
MS JONES: Thank you.
I will just clue up. I know that I have time to ask questions.
CHAIR: Does the hon. member have leave?
AN HON. MEMBER: Leave.
CHAIR: The hon. member by leave.
MS JONES: Thank you.
The point I am trying to make is that they can arbitrarily make those
decisions to do this whenever they want. In fact, when we went to the Management
Commission as an Opposition office to get additional increase in our budget so
we could pay our Communications Director the same as was being paid in other
government departments, so that we could pay our staff at the same rate, so that
we could hire additional staff to do our work, we had to go to an independent
consultant to determine if that was warranted. That independent consultant had
to study every Opposition Office across the country in order to come back and
file a report and make a recommendation.
They did all of that and they came back and they made a recommendation. The
recommendation stated that the Opposition should get more money. In fact, it was
$162,000 more that they should get for staffing in their office and to pay their
staff appropriately.
Mr. Chairman, it was the members opposite, Cabinet ministers, who sat and
voted on increases for staff in the Premier's office, who sat at that
Management Commission meeting and voted that those increases not go to the
Opposition office.
That will show you a little bit of fairness in how this all works, and it
will also tell you that there is no fairness, that arbitrarily these particular
people can be paid, staffed up, reclassified, given wage increase whenever you
want, and they also arbitrarily have the option to vote down independent advice
that would recommend similar increases for other staff that work for offices
within the Legislature, such as the Opposition office. So I will have some
questions for the minister now in just a minute.
CHAIR: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.
MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I am pleased to have the opportunity to stand today in Committee of the Whole
and speak to the Estimates for the Executive Council.
It is extremely important for democracy, and for this House, and for the
public, that we here in the House get the opportunity to look at the Estimates
for the Budget, to ask questions, to probe how money is being spent, and to
raise issues, issues that we can deal with here in the House and issues that the
public need to think about. The money that we spend, of course, is the public
money. It is the money of the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, and we have
quite a responsibility to make sure that the way in which this money is spent
administers government - well, that is obviously one of the things that has to
happen - but that the money is being used for the full benefit of the people of
this Province.
I think it is important that all aspects of the government spending get
questioned, that all aspects of government spending get scrutinized. So I think
we have a real responsibility when we speak here in Committee today, and when we
take
part in the other Estimates' meetings, to ask questions that will clarify
issues, and ask questions that will make sure that things are clear to the
public, and also to point to how money maybe can be spent differently. Maybe
there are alternative ways to spending the money that is being spent. Maybe
there are other options in some cases, and I think that is the role of
Opposition: to ask the probing questions but also to point to options that might
be appropriate in various situations.
It is very interesting for me to stand here today and to do exactly that, to
look at the Executive Council. The Executive Council covers quite a bit, because
the Executive Council covers the Premier's office, the Cabinet Secretariat -
that is the secretariat that works for the Cabinet it covers bodies such as
the Economic and Social Policy Analysis Committee of Cabinet, and we see, this
year, a new office in the Executive Council. The new office that is there, for
me, begs a question of how decisions get made about what needs to be under
Executive Council and maybe what could be somewhere else.
I found it very interesting when I went through the Estimates booklet, and
went through the Estimates for Executive Council, to see an office listed under
Section 2.2.04., Office of Climate Change, Energy Efficiency and Emissions
Trading. I thought, I don't recognize this office. Then I saw that the
Estimates provide for the establishment and operations of such an office.
Now, there is absolutely no doubt that climate change energy efficiency and
emissions trading are extremely important, and anybody who listens to me either
speaking in the House of Assembly or speaking publicly knows that I have great
concerns about energy efficiency, and everything that surrounds energy
efficiency, so I really became curious when I saw this new office in the
Estimates of the Executive Council. I thought, that is funny; I don't remember
hearing about this office on Budget day.
I went to the Budget Speech and, no, it was not in that. Then, actually, one
of my staff said: I remember hearing about that. I know I read about it.
We finally found it. We found it in the news release that comes out with the
Budget, and the news release that says: A Green Investment: Budget 2009 Invests
in the Environment. I thought, that is really good. I really liked the fact that
we have an office that is going to concentrate on climate change, energy
efficiency and emissions trading.
Then it struck me really strange that when I read the news release from March
26, and read about how Budget 2009 invests in the environment, we find that an
office that is going to be dealing with policy development and analysis in
climate change, energy efficiency and emissions trading is not going to be
located in the Department of the Environment. It is going to be located in the
Executive Council.
I know that Cabinet requires people to do research, I know that they have
policy discussion, but it still seems very strange that a new initiative like
this would not seem to be under the Department of Environment and Conservation,
especially when I see that the amount of money that has been allocated for this
new office is $800,000.
I am glad to see the money going in there, and I am glad to see that money is
being allowed for professional services and purchased services when it comes to
dealing with climate change, energy efficiency and emissions trading, but I am
curious about the decision for this to be located in the Executive Council.
There is no doubt that we have to have tools, policies and strategies to deal
with these issues, and I am glad to see that the Budget does allocate $1.3
million in the Department of Environment and Conservation's budget towards the
development of the necessary tools, policies, and strategies to help communities
assess and adapt to climate change impacts, but I still question why the
$800,000 that is here allocated under Executive Council should not be inside of
Environment and Conservation so that the policies that government considers are
policies that are being dealt with inside of Environment and Conservation, the
department that has to deal with these issues, because it is not just an office
to deal in a general way with a policy area. For example, we have the Economic
and Social Policy Analysis of the Executive Council, and that has over $800,000
allotted to it.
It is general, it is not one specific program, but here we have an office
dealing with something extremely specific that does fit very specifically under
a department that already exists. I really would be interested in knowing
and I see the Minister of Finance is looking at me carefully as I am speaking. I
hope that when we come to listen to the minister with regard to some of the
queries that we make in here, as we are standing in the Committee of the Whole,
that he will help me understand why this office was put where it is put.
Money to deal with the issue of climate is extremely important. While I am
saying I am looking at $800,000 being spent here, I am glad $800,000 is being
spent, but I would like to see that $800,000 be part of a larger package dealing
with the issue of climate change and dealing with the issue of energy
efficiency. In the Budget we have small pockets of money that are going towards
these issues.
My message to government is, you tell us what your priorities are, not by
your words but by your decisions and by your actions. I cannot help but point
out that when I look at the issues, such as climate change and energy
efficiency, I do not find the same level of commitment when it comes to the
dollar sign, as I do to something, for example, like the oil energy. So when we
look at energy in the Budget, and we look at the whole piece around oil energy,
we find over a quarter billion dollars in the Budget going to that area, and we
find a few million going to issues like energy efficiency and climate change.
Then we find that a major office that is going to deal with policy in this area
is not part of the broader discussion inside of Environment and Conservation,
instead it is located within the Executive Council. So that is one thing I
wanted to raise here today. As I said, I look forward to when the minister
stands up to respond, down the road, to hearing what he has to say about that.
I notice that my time is up. I know I will get a chance to stand again. What
I have to say next, Mr. Chair, is a new topic, so I will wait until my next
turn.
Thank you.
CHAIR: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I will start with the issue raised by the Leader of the NDP in terms of the
climate change. While I do not have all of the knowledge here, it is my
understanding that this policy office is based upon a similar model in England
that was used by Tony Blair's government, that, in fact, the lady who we have
in charge of this had completed similar work in the United Kingdom and set this
office up over here.
Mr. Chair, what we have is a situation where as a result of the importance of
climate change, it is decided to create a separate office, but obviously, it
will work very closely with the Department of Environment and the Department of
Natural Resources. Obviously, there is an intertwining here. Again, it is my
understanding - and the Minister of Environment or the Minister of Natural
Resources would be in a better position to answer. What we have tried to do is
recognize the importance of climate change, recognize the impact that it can
have on our society and thereby try to raise the profile, as we have done here,
by creating a separate office.
So that is my understanding of the rationale for the creation of this office
and that the money there is meant to, again, assist in getting this office
going, getting it off the ground and allowing it to work in conjunction with the
Department of Environment and Department of Natural Resources.
Mr. Chair, a couple of points, first in relation to the comments of the
Leader of the Opposition. I find it somewhat disconcerting at times when I hear
comments like: Look at the size of this Cabinet, look how the Cabinet has grown,
it is now the size of the Cabinet under the previous Liberal Administration and
that is what the Premier swore, or I think the comments made is that the Premier
campaigned he would not do.
Just look, if I could, at two of the departments that have been created. That
is why, again, I find it discouraging when I look at the comments of the Leader
of the Opposition. We now have a Department of Aboriginal Affairs, recognizing
the significance of the Aboriginal culture, the significance, especially, not
only in Labrador, but in Labrador, in Conne River, in the Port au Port
Peninsula. So we have a specific department to deal with the issues facing
Aboriginals in our Province.
Secondly, Mr. Chairman, the new department that was just created under the
Budget, and I am not quite certain of the name, if we have a name. Is it Child,
Youth and Family Services?
AN HON. MEMBER: Child, Youth and Family Services.
MR. KENNEDY: A Department of Child, Youth and Family Services, Mr.
Chairman, to deal with the issues out there facing our children. How often have
we heard people say our most valuable resource is our children? Well, what we
are doing now is putting a most experienced Cabinet minister with a background
and training in this area in charge of this new department.
It is easy to say the Cabinet has gotten too big, but when we look at these
two particular offices I say it speaks volumes about our government that we are
addressing these types of issues.
SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
MR. KENNEDY: Mr. Chairman, I also find it somewhat disconcerting and it
perpetuates the view that somehow or other that politicians are overpaid when we
hear the Leader of the Opposition talk about the amount of money that people
receive.
Well, Mr. Chairman, the Leader of the Opposition also receives the same
amount of money as a Cabinet minister. She is being paid more money as a result
of the increases that everyone else has received, so I do not think again,
it is somewhat disingenuous to talk about the amount of money that people have
been paid, and that it is entwined with the role of Cabinet.
Now, Mr. Chairman, I am not going to make myself out and say, well, look at
the work I have to do, but I am not only the Minister of Finance but the
President of Treasury Board responsible for collective bargaining, which has
been a full-time job in the last number of months, the Minister Responsible for
the OCIO, the Minister Responsible for the Public Service Commission, and
entwined in all that is the Public Service Secretariat.
Then, Mr. Chairman, we have the Minister of Natural Resources, who is also
let me see if I can get all this correct she is also the Minister
Responsible for the Forestry and Agrifoods Agency, the Status of Women, which
makes her responsible for the Women's Policy Office, and also she is Deputy
Premier. So I think, Mr. Chairman - I am not going to say that all of these
departments require ministers, but certainly, as Cabinet ministers, we have our
work cut out.
Then, as the Opposition House Leader is aware, the role of the Minister of
Justice and Attorney General certainly is very encompassing in terms of the
oversight capacity in that case.
We have Minister Sullivan, then, who is responsible for Human Resources,
Labour and Employment, Persons With Disabilities, the Labour Relations Agency,
and Francophone Affairs.
Mr. Chairman, the point I am trying to make is that we work hard. All MHAs
that I am aware of, and all Cabinet ministers, work hard. As to money, people
are paid for what they do, Mr. Chairman, but I think, if you are going to do a
job like we are doing here, first there has to be a gratitude that you have been
elected by the people to serve in this Chamber. Therefore, Mr. Chairman, it is
not only about money. Which brings me, then, to the point raised: Well, look at
the Premier's staff, and look at the wages they have.
Mr. Chairman, one of the challenges in government, one of the challenges as a
Cabinet minister in this government, is trying to keep up with our Premier. He
works day and night. I have never seen such a level of commitment, Mr. Chairman.
He expects those who work around him to work the same way. He expects Cabinet
ministers - if you are going to be a Cabinet minister of the Premier then you
are going to work the way that he works, and that is a struggle in terms of the
work ethic of the Premier. The people in his office work very hard, Mr.
Chairman. That I can tell you from personal experience, just watching them, how
hard they work on a daily basis because that is required of them.
It is not only the work ethic, Mr. Chairman; there is the dedication. As the
members opposite would know, there is a dedication required to do the job, both
as an MHA, as a Parliamentary Secretary and/or as a Cabinet minister.
I am aware, Mr. Chairman, the Leader of NDP, the difficult job, day in and
day out, she has in terms of being the only person in this House, to come
prepared and to do what she has to do. I am aware of the difficult jobs, Mr.
Chairman, that the Opposition have to do - the Member for Port de Grave, not
only in terms of dealing with all of his constituents but coming to the House to
ask questions. The same thing with the Opposition House Leader in terms of the
Estimates today, coming in every day prepared. The same thing with Leader of the
Opposition. These are difficult jobs.
Mr. Chairman, in relation to the Premier's office and this is quite
interesting, actually the total positions in the Premier's office right
now are twenty-one. Under the Grimes Administration there were twenty-six
positions in the Premier's office. Even more interesting, Mr. Chairman, is
that they were I don't know if hid away is the word, but they were
individuals who were working in other offices, funded by other offices, but
worked in the Premier's office. There were twenty-six of them, Mr. Chairman.
Then, if you look at today's dollars, they would be making more money than the
current Premier's office. Mr. Chairman, we have less people today in the
Premier's office than in the past. In the previous Liberal Administration, we
had positions funded under other departments, and less dollar value than today's
dollar. Again, it is somewhat disingenuous, if not misleading, to state that the
way it has been stated.
Finally, Mr. Chairman, in terms of openness, transparency and accountability,
as I indicated all of expenses of the MHAs, plus the Cabinet Ministers, are on