Manitoba Hansard — 8 June 1972 (Sitting 108, 29th Legislature, 4th Session)

29-4-108

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Speaker The Honourable Peter Fox Vol. XIX No. 108 2:30p.m., Thursday, June 8th, 1972. Fourth Session, 29th Legislature. _____________ _________ ________ " _____ _ Printed by R. S. Evans- Queen's Printer for Province of Manitoba

Electoral Division Name Political Address Affiliation ARTHUR J. Douglas Watt P.C. Reston, Manitoba ASSINIBOIA Steve Patrick Lib. 10 Red Robin Place, Winnipeg 12 BIRTLE-RUSSELL Harry E. Graham P.C. Binscarth, Manitoba BRANDON EAST Hon. Leonard S. Evans N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 BRANDON WEST Edward McGill P.C. 2228 Princess Ave., Brandon, Man. BURROWS Hon. Ben Hanuschak N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 CHARLESWOOD Arthur Moug P.C. 29 Willow Ridge Rd., Winnipeg 20 CHURCHILL Gordon Wilbert Beard lnd. 148 Riverside Drive, Thompson, Man.

CRESCENTWOOD Cy Gonick N.D.P. 1 -174 Nassau Street, Winnipeg 13 DAUPHIN Hon. Peter Burtniak N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 ELMWOOD Hon. Russell J. Doern N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 EMERSON Gabriel Girard P.C. 25 Lomond Blvd., St. Boniface 6 FLIN FLON Thomas Barrow N.D.P. Cranberry Portage, Manitoba FORT GARRY L. R. (Bud) Sherman P.C. 86 Niagara St., Winnipeg 9 FORT ROUGE Mrs. lnez Trueman P.C. 179 Oxford St., Winnipeg 9 GIMLI John C. Gottfried N.D.P. 44- 3rd Ave., Gimli Man. GLADSTONE James Robert Ferguson P.C. Gladstone, Manitoba INKSTER Sidney Green, Q.C. N.D.P.

Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 KILDONAN Hon. Peter Fox N.D.P. 244 Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 LAC DU BONNET Hon. Sam Uskiw N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 LAKESIDE Harry J. Enns P.C. Woodlands, Manitoba LA VERENDRYE Leonard A. Barkman Lib. Box 130, Steinbach, Man. LOGAN William Jenkins N.D.P. 1294 Erin St., Winnipeg 3 MINNEDOSA David Blake P.C. Minnedosa, Manitoba MORRIS Warner H. Jorgenson P.C. Box 185, Morris, Man. OSBORNE lan Turnbull N.D.P. 284 Wildwood Park, Winnipeg 19 PEMBINA George Henderson P.C.

Manitou, Manitoba POINT DOUGLAS Donald Malinowski N.D.P. 361 Burrows Ave., Winnipeg 4 PORTAGE LA PRAIRIE Gordon E. Johnston Lib. Room 248, Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 RADISSON Harry Shafransky N.D.P. 4 Maplehurst Rd., St. Boniface 6 RH IN ELAND Jacob M. Froese Soc. Cr. ·· Box 40, Winkler, Manitoba RI EL Donald W. Craik P.C. 2 River Lane, Winnipeg 8 RIVER HEIGHTS Sidney Spivak, O.C. P.C. 250 Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 ROBLIN J. Wally McKenzie P.C. lnglis, Manitoba ROCK LAKE Henry J. Einarson P.C. Glenboro, Manitoba ROSSMERE Hon. Ed. Schreyer N.D.P.

Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 RUPERTSLAND Jean Allard N.D.P. 602- 245 Provencher Ave., St.Boniface E ST. BONIFACE Hon. Laurent L.Oesjardins N.D.P. 357 Des Meurons St., St. Boniface 6 ST. GEORGE William Uruski ··N.D.P. Sox 580, Arborg, Manitoba ST. JAMES Hon. A.H. Mackling, O.C. N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Wir'nipeg 1 ST. JOHNS Hon. Saul Cherniack, O.C. N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 ST. MATTHEWS Wally Johannson N.D.P. 23-500 Burnell St., Winnipeg 10 ST. VITAL D. J. Walding N.D.P. 31 Lochinvar Ave., St. Boniface 6 STE. ROSE A.R. (Pete) Adam N.D.P. Ste. Rose du Lac, Manitoba SELKIRK Hon. Howard Pawley N.D.P.

Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 SEVEN OAKS Hon. Saul A. Miller N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 SOURIS-KILLARNEY Earl McKellar P.C. Nesbitt, Manitoba SPRINGFIELD Hon. Rene E. Toupin N.D.P. Legisl<;�tive Bldg., Winnipeg 1 STURGEON CREEK Frank Johnston P.C. 310 Overdale St., Winnipeg 12 SWAN RIVER James H. Bilton P.C. Swan River, Manitoba THE PAS Hon. Ron McBryde N.D.P. 228 Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 THOMPSON Joseph P. Borowski N.D.P. La Salle, Manitoba, TRANSCONA Hon. Russell Paulley N.D.P. Legislative Bldg., Winnipeg 1 VIRDEN Morris McGregor P.C. Kenton, Manitoba WELLINGTON Philip M.

Petursson N.D.P. 6B1 Banning St., Winnipeg 10 WINNIPEG CENTRE J. R. (Bud) Boyce N.D.P. 777 Winnipeg Ave., Winnipeg 3 WOLSELEY

THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MANITOBA 2:3 0 o' clock, Thursday, June 8, 1972 Opening Prayer by Mr . Speaker . INTRODUC TION OF GUESTS 2763 MR. SPEAKER : Be fore we proceed I should ·li ke to direct the attention of the honourable members to the gallery where we have 87 students of Grade 9 standing of the Cresce ntview School'. These students are under the direc tion of Mr . King. This school is located in the con stituency of the Honourable Mem ber for Portage ia Prairie . We also have 40 students, Grade 11 standing of the Garden Valley Collegia te . These stu dents are under the direction of lV'r.

Z acuarias and Mr . lo eppky. This school is located in the constituency of the Honourable Mem ber for Rhineland. We have 9 students of Grade 9 standing of the Sansome Junior High School . The se students are under the direction of Miss Wendy Taylor . This school is located in the constituency of the Honourable Member for As sini.boia . On behalf of all the Honoi.trable Members, I welcome you here today . Presenting Petitions, Reading and Receiving Petitions; Presenting Reports by Standing and Special Co mmittees; Ministerial Statements and Tabling of Reports . The Honourable Minister of Tourism and Recreation .

MINISTER IAL STATEMENT HON . LAURENT L. DE SJARDINS (Minister of Tourism , Recreation and Cultural Affairs) (St . Boniface): Mr . Speaker, I' d like to make the following statement: The weather this sea son so far has been exceptionally fine for outdoor recreational activities . The parks have been near capacity for most of the week and since Victoria Day with some loc ations having to turn people away . Should this weather continue there should be a record breaking year with atten dance possibly exceeding 3. 5 millio n visito rs. There is one note of caution that might be voiced at this time however .

We've had a fairly long dry spell with above normal temperatu re s, low humidity , high evaporation rates so that la ke level s, streams can be lower than what we 've had over the past few years. Continuing hot speils is of great concern to our field staff wi.th forest protection responsibilities in the parks . More people are travelling the back country, canoeing through wilderness areas, fishing lakes generally inaccessible to motorized vehicles .

Fire is always a constant risk from lightning storms but the back country travellers are also a serious risk if they do not observe the com monsense rules that apply . We have had some 14 to 15 forest fires in the parks so far this year , all held belo w five acres in area . We ask that those using the parks be extremely careful with cigarettes, camp fires, during the current dry spell . Should this weather continue it may become necessary to close ' sections of the park to travel . The assi stance of the public in this matter is very much appreciated . MR . SPEAKER : The Honourable Member for Robl in . MR . J.

WA LLY McKE NZIE (Roblin): Mr. Speaker , I thank the Honourable Mi nister for his remarks ·and again commend him for them; and reiterate what I said again the other da}" in the co urse of what the Honourable Minister said, that this department has a great future and with the figures that he 's projecting today I think it backs up the remarks that he and I both wrote into the record the other day .

I was hopeful that some day during the sessi on the Honourable Minister and the Minister of Mines and Natural Resources would draw to our atten tion the problem of fires; so again this goes in the record and I'm sure notices have gone around to the various parks advising people that are using that facility to be ver' .' caref ul with fire - and I thank the Honourable Mini ster for his remar ks . MR . SPEAKER: Any other Ministerial Statements or Tabling of Reports . Notices of Motion; Introduction of Bills . The Ho nourable Minister of Labour . INTRO DUCTION OF BILL S . HON .

RUSSELL PAULLEY (M inister of Labour) (Transcona) introduced Bill s: (on be- half of the Attomey-G eneral)

an Act to amend The Jury Act . Mr . Speaker, may I inform you and the House that the Honourable the Admini strator of the Government of the Province of Mant'toba having been informed of the subject matter of this .Bill rec ommends it to the House .

2764 June 8, 1972 MR. SPEAKER: Oral questions. The Honourable Member for Morris . ORAL QUESTION PERIOD MR . WARNER H. JORGENSON (Morris) : I should like to direct my question to the First Minister and ask him if the statement released today by the Minister of Industry and Commerce that the extension to Flyer Coach Industries to be located in Transcona is evid ence of the policy of this government in decentralizing industry whenever they have the opportunity to do so . MR. SPEA KER: The Honourable First Minister . HON. EDWARD SCHREYER (Premier) (Rossmere): Mr.

Speaker, I'm advised that the decisi on has been taken with respect to the best location for the facility in question, that the decis ion has been taken by the Board of the Manitoba Development Corporation . MR. JORGENSON : I ask the First Minister if he could advise the House what further amounts of money that Flyer Coach Industry will require in order to build its plant in Transcoha . MR. · SCHREYER: Well Mr. Speaker , I should think that would be an appropriate subject for an Order for Return. MR. SPEA KER: Agreed . The Honourable Member for Morris. MR.

JORGENSON: I wonder if the First Minister could indicate to the House to what ex tent the Manitoba Dev elopment Corporatio n will own Flyer Coach Industries after this new loan has been completed . MR. SCHREYER: Well, Mr. Speaker , it would be in the order of 75 percent and greater I believe .

I can also tell the Honourable Member for Morris that the government does have a solici tude with respect to the continued operation of the Western Flyer Coach operation at Morris, the building of school buses, and that we would certainly hope and believe that it is in the public policy and interest that that facility and operation continue at Morris. MR. JORGENSON: I wonder if the First Minister could then -- (lnterject iQD)-- I have not asked any supplementary questions . They're all separate questions in case my honourable friend is interested .

I wonder then if the Minister would state whether or not the Parlia mentary Secretary to the Minister of Industry and Commerce - the Member for Winnipeg Centre -w as expressing gover nment policy when he stated at a ·meeting in the Pembina Valley De velopment Corporation that Flyer Coach Industries in Morris would be phased out. MR. SCHREYER : Mr. Speaker , all I have to go by is the statement, the allegatio n of the Honourable Member for Morris .

I've not seen in the paper nor heard via the elect ronic median or heard from the Member for Winnipeg Centre himself as to precisely the nature of his state- ment in this respect . , MR. JORGENSON: .. ... if the First Minister would take advantage of the first oppor tunity he can find to check the minutes of the last meeting of the Pembina Valley Devel opment Corporation to find the statement to which I have alluded . MR. SPEA KER: Orders of the Day . The Honourable Minister of Agriculture . HON. MMUEL USKIW (Minister of Agric ulture) (Lac du Bonnet): Mr.

Speak er, the other day , in my absence , the Member for Assiniboia posed a number of questions relative to the amounts of potatoes that were dumpedJaccording to his question,last year. I'm wondering whether I can get a clarification from him because my intuition· is that he means the current year . MR. SPEA KER: The Honourable Member for Assiniboia . MR. STEVE PATRICK (Assiniboia): Mr. Speaker, yes, I meant this year, how many thousands of bushels of potatoes were dumped ? MR .

USKIW : According to the informatio n I have from the Federal Price Stabilizat ion Program - the people in charge of the program - it's somewhere in the area of 100, 000 bags, 100, 000 cwt . The commission itself is not involved in a dumping program . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Morris . MR. JORGENSON: I should like to direct a question to the Minister of Agriculture and ask him if it is the intention of the government to phase out those poultry farmers who have con tracts with Ogilvie Labatts - if it is the intention of the government to phase those contracts out before their expiry date . MR.

USKIW: . Well I don't know why the question is put, Mr. Speaker , because there has never been any indication that the Government of Manitoba was involved in the phasing out of any contracts at this particular time . MR. JORGENSON: Mr. Speak er , I simply asked the Minister a question and I wonder if

l .Jane 8, 1972 2765 t "'trr . ,JORGENS ON cont 'd .) . . • . . he would give me the courtesy of a reply . I asked him tl it is the intention of the government to in any way phase those contracts out before their ex pi r.v date . MR. SPEAKER: Order , please . Order, please . The honourable member asked 1 ques tio n and an answer was given . It is not necessary for an answer to be given in the form the honourable member desires - but he did get an answer . That is the procedure . The Honourable Member for Morris. MR. JORG ENSON: Mr . Speaker, I shall ask the Minister a further question .

Have there been new regulations of the Egg Marketing Board in raising the deductible amount to three cents a dozen. MR . USKIW: The Member for Morris must be talking about a provision which the board mtered into in the last two or three days requiring that producers assume a deduction, I bel ieve, o(three cents a dozen to cover any losses on the surplus side of the ledger - that is sur plus egg situation . MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Rock Lake. MR . HE NRY J. EINAR SON (Rock Lake): I direct, Mr. Speaker , this question to the Minister of Agriculture.

Is it the intention of his department to go before the Agticultural Committee in Ottawa to present his policy position in regards to the Farm Credit Corporation and the Small Farms Policy ? MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Mini ster of Agriculture. MR . USKIW : Mr . Speak er, two members of my staff are doing just that today. MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Assiniboia. · MR . PATRICK: Mr . Speaker , my question is to the Honourable Minister of Health and Social Services. Has the Minister or his department done a revaluation of the rehabili tation programs in the Manitoba jails within the last year ? . MR .

SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Hea lth and Social Development. HON . RENE E. TOUPIN (Minister of Health and Social Development) (Springfield) : Ye s, Mr . Speaker . MR . PATRICK: Ca n the Minister tell us when it was done, and would he be tabling that report or study in the House ? MR . TOUPIN: Mr . Speaker , there has been the preparation of the White Paper on Cor rections in the current fiscal year and the tabling of such a report is a matter for policy . MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister . MR . SCHREYER: Mr .

Speaker , ye sterday I was asked by the Honourable Leader of the Opposition if any of Manitoba Hydro's proposals were being delayed by reason of orders of the Government of Canada pursuant to the Ca nada Water Act. I indicated ye sterday that I did not believe that this was the case , that I would check. Upon checking, I' m advised that the Mani toba Hydro has not in fact received any communication from the Government of Ca nada of a nature that would require any delay or postponement in plans either under the Ca nada Water Act or any other act. MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Thompson. MR . JOSEPH P.

BOROWSKI (Thompson) : Mr . Speaker , in the absence of the Attorney General, I' d like to direct a question to the First Minister. Could he indicate when charges will be laid against the 18 prisoners involved in a destructive riot at Heading ley ? MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister . MR . SCHREYER: Mr. Speaker , I' m normally apprehensive about answering questions that involve the admini stration of justice .

Howev er I believe that it can be pointed out that the Attorney-General was asked a ve.ry similar questio n yesterday and indicated that as soon as a report is received from the officers of the Department of the Attorney-General that it would then be possible to make a decisio n with respect to the laying of any charges. MR . BOROWSKI: Mr . Speaker, I have another question for the First Minister dealing with Winnipeg Hydro and the statement made by the government that they have offered 3 million per year in perpetuity, whether this in fact is constitutionally possible for any government to commit ... MR .

SPEAKER: Order, please . Would the :(J.onourable member state his question? MR. BO ROWSKI: My question is: is it legal for a government to make a co mmitment in perpetuity which would bind all future governments to such a deal ? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Mini ster.

2766 June 8, 1972 NIR . S CHREYER: Mr. Speaker, I suppose the most precise reply possible is that it is within the jurisdictional competence of the government to make such an offer or to cause such an offer to be made. On the other hand it is of course open to any government - any succeed ing or subsequent government - to alter such an agreement by act of this Legislature. That of course, Mr. Speaker, is without commenting on the desirability of thus impinging on law of contract, and I make no further comment on that point. And, Mr.

Speaker, I would also like to make this additional observation in reply to the question that the proposal which was made to City Hydro was a proposal intended to initiate discussion and negotiation and that there is nothing, there is nothing in the offer that should be construed as meaning that the acquisition or the purchase of City Hydro is necessary or crucial to the public policy of the Province of Manitoba. There was no intention even from the outset of proceeding as though this were a necessary or crucial acquisition. MR. BOROWSKI; A further question, Mr. Speaker.

In event Hydro does go ahead with this proposal, will the government bring this matter before the Legislature and allow the Legis lature to vote on it. MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The question is hypothetical. Orders of the Day. The Honourable Member for Tliompson. MR. BOROWSKI: I would like to know whether this matter of Hydro purchasing Winnipeg Hydro is going to be brought before the Legislature before it's approved. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister. MR. SCHREYER: Mr.

Speaker, I believe that I can reply to the question as follows: that if a proposal made by Manitoba Hydro is acceptable to City Hydro and the City of Winnipeg, then having two willing partners to a transaction there is no problem. If it is not possible to come to any sort of natural agreement on this matter, then the matter will not be pursued be cause it is not crucial that this transaction be consummated. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Arthur. MR. J. DOUGLAS WATT (Arthur): Mr. Speaker, I'd like to direct a question to the Honourable Minister of Cultural and Recreation.

I wonder if he could tell the House if notice has gone out to the municipalities throughout rural Manitoba in regard to the assist to com munities for capital recreational facilities. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Tourism and Recreation. MR. DESJARDINS: Well, Mr. Speaker, I think that we're going in the Estimates this afternoon, and I think this would be a subject that could be debated at this time. But I can tell him that most - I don't know if all the municipalities- but most of the municipalities, especially those, certainly those that have requested it have received application forms. NIR .

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Arthur. MR. WATT: I don't think it's a matter for debate. I'm just asking a simple question, supplementary question of the Minister. How many municipalities have applied for this assis tance as far as capital costs of recreational centres? :MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. I do believe the Honourable Minister indicated that de tails could be had during his Estimates. The question that's being asked does ask for statis tical information. Orders of the Day. The Honourable Member for Rhine land. MR. JACOB M. FROESE (Rhineland): Mr.

Speaker, I'd like to direct a question to the Minister of Municipal Affairs. Are the contents of bills such as Bill 4 7 being made known to municipalities so that they can make representation to the government? I'm especially refer ring to the compulsory feature of welfare by-laws. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs. HON. HOWARD R. PAWLEY (Minister of Municipal Affairs) (Selkirk): Mr.

Speaker, first the Bill of course will be made known to municipalities in the normal process, namely that of dealing through the legislative committees; and secondly I have discussed the general principles with the advisory committee, which consists of representatives of the municipal associations to myself. We have discussed the principles at that level, and the particulars will be open for discussion at the legislative committee level. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Assiniboia. :MR. PATRICK: Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister ofTourism andRecreation.

I wonder if the Minister can advise the House, has the Government acquired the property for- merly owned or owned by Wendigo Lodge which was burnt down or destroyed by fire? .

June 8, 1972 2767 MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Tourism and Recreation. MR. DESJARDINS: Mr. Speaker, this would be the Manitoba Development Corporation and I '11 have to take the question as notice. MR. PATRICK: Since the Minister agreed to take it as notice, can the Minister also ad vise if it has acquired the property, what amount of money does the Government intend to spend on this project? MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day. The Honourable Member for PJ1ineland. MR. FROESE: Mr. Speaker, I have a further question for the Minister of Agriculture.

Could he inform the House whether notification has been given to the villages and towns that will have an increase in water rates? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Agriculture. MR. USKIW: Well, Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time these notices are going out as in the past. There's been no change in the procedure. There have been adjustments over time and I'm sure they are going to continue in the same way. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for La Verendrye. MR. LEONARD A. BARKMAN (La Verendrye): Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Agriculture.

Have Manitoba Credit Corporation officials or anyone else directly involved been instructed to curtail any further loans involving the purchase of milk quotas to farmers? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Agriculture. MR. USKIW: No I would think, Mr. Speaker, that the reverse would be true. That we are encouraging people to move into the manufacturing milk business. MR. BARKMAN: Is the Minister particularly meaning manufacturing milk only, not quota milk? MR. USKIW: I would presume, Mr.

Speaker, that the Honourable member is making reference to some limitation on the amount of credit available for the purchase of fluid milk quotas. And I think there the question of economic viability enters into the picture, and if it's presumed that an offer is too generous then the Board will simply say that they wouldn't make a loan on that basis . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Arthur. MR. WATT" Mr. Speaker, I direct a question to the Minister of Agriculture - I guess a supplementary question to the question that was asked by the Member from Rhineland.

My question arises out of the answer from the Minister when he said that there . . . MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. Would the honourable member place his question? MR. WATT: My question to the Minister, when is the appropriate time to announce to those communities that have water systems now and their rates will be raised? When is the appropriate time? That was the question. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Agriculture. MR. USIGW: Mr. Speaker, the Water Supply Board is in constant communication with the communities which it services and I am sure that the normal course of action will take place. MR.

SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Rock Lake. MR. EINARSON: Mr. Speaker, I direct a question to the Minister of Agriculture. Have MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Agriculture. MR. USKIW: I'd have to take that question as notice. I am not sure, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Inkster. MR. SIDNEY GREEN, Q. C. (Inkster): Mr. Speaker, is it a provision in the statute pass MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Agriculture. Order, please. Orde:·, please. Order, please . The Honourable Member for Arthur has a point of order ? MR. WATT: Well I asked the Member for ... MR.

SPEAKER: Order, please. Would the honourable member state his point of order. MR. WATT: The point of order then, Mr. Speaker, is that you allowed the Member for MR. USKIW: Well, Mr. Speaker ... there been any rate increases in the supply of water to any of the town s in Manitoba in this year ? ed by the previous government that the wa ter rates must be raised in order to pay the capital eosts of the water supply, passed by the Conservative admini stratio n ? · Inkster to get up and make a stateme nt. MR. SPEAKER: . Order , please . Order , please .

Order� The Honourable Minister for Agriculture wi ll answer the question if he so desir es .

276 8 June 8, 1972 MR. SPEAKER: Order, please . The Honourable Member for Morris on a point of order. MR . JORGENSON: Our rules are very clear in that respect; and I think if you'll look down the list that you provide for it you will find that no question should be framed in such a way as to suggest its own answer, which is the type of question posed by the Member for Inkster . --(Interjection )-- MR . SPEAK ER: Order , please . The Honourable Member for Inkster , who wi shed to speak to the point of order . MR . GREEN: Mr . Speaker, on the point of order, I agree that the question suggests its own answer . MR .

SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Agriculture . MR . USKIW: Mr .. Speaker , those that were present here last week when I introduced the new act, the Water Services Act, would know that I had given some elaboration to the fact that the Water Supply Board was in fact in violation of the act by not charging the proper rates in accordance with the provision of that act; as would reflect the true cost of water supply to those towns receiving those servic es. And that is legislatiort that was on the books for many, many years and was put on the books by the previous admini stration .

And there have been adjust ments in rates from time to time but they were never sufficient to in fact meet the requirements of the Act . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Churchill. Order , please . Order, please . The Honourable Member for Churchill. MR . GORDON W. BE ARD (Churchill) : I would like to direct a question to the First Minister . In respect to perpetual agreements, I wo uld wonder whether this government would be prepared to review the agreement between the CPR and the City of Winnipeg . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable First Minister . MR . SCHREY ER: Mr .

Speaker, I believe there has been considera ble debate - some of it profound - that took place here in this House over the years with respect to the propriety shall I say of governments entering into agr eements that run into perpetuity . And ce rtainly no easy answer was ever suggested or admitted to be availa ble.

The member, my col league , the Minister of Labour I believe was quite intimately involved in debate on the nature of perpetual agreemen ts, --(Interjectio n)-- they certainly perplexed previous governments I have no doubt, as it perplexes this one, and I really can't be more helpful to my honourable friend than that. --(Interjec tio n)-- MR. SPEAK ER: Order please . The Honourable Member for Rhineland. MR . FROESE: I have two questions. I' ll direct the first one to the First Minister .

In connection with the perpetuity arrangement wit h the CPR, is the stockyard 4 x 8 feet still in existance on the for mer Burns Plant site . MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable First Mini ster . MR . SCHREY ER: Mr . Speaker, I '11 have to take that question as notic e. I take it the honourable member is referring to some fictitious or contrived stockyard 4 feet by 8 feet in size . --(Interjec tion) -- That would probably be sufficient to accommodate a little calf, but not much more . MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Rhineland. MR . FROESE: I have a further question to the Minister of Agricultu re .

Is the increase in water rates brought about because of a misc alculation in the projections that were made at the time that the rates were set, or is it a matter of underconsumption ? MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Agricultu re . MR. USKIW: My informa tion , Mr . Speaker , is that the whole project was not properly conceived . That there was some esca lation of cos t beyond expectation and also less con sump tion than assumed .

The base on which these rates were arrived at was the Canadian average and it appeared that that did not properly apply to Manitoba since ever the Water Supply Board was in existence or set up. And they continually run into deficits from day one . So the rate was not properly set in the first place to comp ly 'with the act that was passed . MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Rock Lake. MR . EINARSON: Mr . Speaker, I direct this question to the Minister of Agric ulture .

A town who was under contract with the Water Supply Board; they reque st information how the Supply Board arrive at their rates - ca n this information be received by any town under contract from the Water Supply Board ? MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Agriculture .

June 8, 1972 2769 MR. USKIW: I'm not sure, Mr. Speaker. I think they have provision which allows for the Utility Board to consider the question of water rates. I believe there is an appeal provision. MR. SPEAKER: Orders of the Day. The Honourable Minister of Labour. MR. PAULLEY: Would you kindly call Bill No. 45, Mr. Speaker? MR. SPEAKER: Proposed motion of the Honourable Minister of Municipal Affairs. The Honourable Member for Charleswood. MR. ARTHUR MOUG (Charleswood): Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I had a chance to look at the bill -and only let it go to Committee and I '11 have a few questions on it then. MR.

SPEAKER put the question and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Labour. MR. PA ULLEY: Mr. Speaker, I wonder if you would mind calling Bill No. 42. MR. SPEAKER: Proposed motion of the Honourable Minister of Labour. The Honourable Minister of Labour. MR. PAULLEY: Mr. Speaker, I beg to move, seconded by the Honourable the Minister of Agriculture that Bill No. 42,

an Act to Amend the Amusements Act (1) be now read a second time. MR. SPEAKER presented the motion. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Labour. MR. PAULLEY: Mr. Speaker, I'm sure honourable members are aware that from time to time there have been some difficulties in the operation of the amusement rides and the oper ation of midways, circuses and exhibitions. Under the present legislation, there are no real concrete provisions for inspection of the rides, the mechanical aspects of the rides themselves -and in particular too, Mr. Speaker, of the electrical equipment that is necessary.

And it is proposed by the amendments to the Amusement Act, Part No. 2, to give to the Department of Labour the authority to make inspections of these rides. I might say, Mr. Speaker, that the Amusement Act is basically i.n three parts -one part dealing with thfl matter of finance; the other part dealing with inspections; and I believe that the third part deals with Tourism and Recreation and Agricultural Fairs. This proposed amendment, Mr. Speaker, intends to provide legislative authority for the enforcing of safety measures with respect to amusement rides at fairs, exhibitions and midways.

At the present time there is no legislation which enables such matters to be dealt with effective ly. The legislation will require the operation of amusement rides to notify the Minister of Labour not later than 3 days prior to the date of which he intends to operate an amusement ride. Legislation will enable an inspector from the Department of Labour to enter any amusement park where an amusement ride is being operated and carry out inspection to ensure that the equipment is safe.

And the legislation wili enable the inspector to require that the operator of the amusement equipment shall take measures to ensure that the equipment is safe, and may if necessary prevent the operation of such equipment. And because of the service rendered, the legislation provides for a fee to be charged by regulation for the services provided. The legislation, Mr. Speaker, also provides penalties for the failure to comply with legislation, and provides that every day that an offence continues it shall be a separate offence. And there is also a provision in the proposed amendments to the Act, Mr.

Speaker, that the Minister may exempt certain rides from inspection requirements should this be deemed to be advisable. It is the intention, Mr. Speaker, in order to give a fair consideration to the Agricultural Fairs, etc. that are coming into the prcwince -that a three month delay after being given the Royal Assent, this legislation will come into effect. It's not our intention to catch anybody unaware and not knowledgeable of the purpose of this legislation.

From time to time, Sir, complaints have been registered with the Department of Labour and I 'm sure with all honourable members as to accidents that have occurred on midways and fairs to people. We have no authority under the present legislation to take proper remedial steps.

It could conceivably be that many honourable me.mbers in this House will recall, I be lieve it was last year or the year before, a couple of youngsters were injured -I 'm not sure whether one may not have been killed as the result of an operation of a piece of equipment in northern Manitoba -and I'm not prejudiced against northern Manitoba -but we did not have the authority that this legislation seeks for proper inspection of these amusement rides. And I re commend this legislation to the House, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Roblin. MR. McKENZIE: The acoustics today, Mr.

Spea.ker, are most unpleasant -I could hardly

2770 June 8, 1972 (MR. McKENZIE cont'd. ) ..... hear the honourable member. I lmow you and I have dis cussed th� problem - and today seems to be an exceptionally bad day, especially from the cor ner where the 1-Ionourable Minister was speaking. Mr. Speaker, we have reviewed this bill and support the Minister with this type of legis lation.

It's one with the number of sophisticated rides that are a"ailable and people are charged for at the various fairs and forms of entertainment, - especially in the summer months it cer tainly is one that needs the attention of some form of inspection - because hardly a year goes by where it's not reported in some province or other across Canada that an accident has been the cause of some faulty equipment and government today has inspections on various forms of equipment, motors and things like that in the mining industry and other industries, and I think this is one that deserves this type of legislation.

I'm sure that there's a lot of uneasiness amongst parents - especially for children'srides, when they see their children getting on some of these fast and furious rides that you find at your fairs - and if they lmow that the ride has been inspected and the equipment is capable of the type of amusement that it's being charged for, I 'm sure that the owner of the equipment and the parents will have more faith in the - - so with those few remarks, Mr. Speaker, we support the legislation and I 'm sure if there's any other comments that they will appear in committee. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Assiniboia.

MR. PATRICK: Mr. Speaker, I not only support the legislation, but I also ask the Mini.ster to enforce it when it comes into effect. I think it's most important that this type of legislation that we have even on the books at the present time is quite often not enforced, and in this case I would ask the Minister to enforce it. I think it's long overdue that - amusement parks and amusement equipment should be I feel at least inspected once a year before it's put into operation or maybe more often.

It's quite often that one looks in the paper and you see so many people killed in some amusement park as a result of the equipment breaking down. This has happened here in Manitoba as well, as was mentioned by one member some accidents hap� pening at some rodeo events. So, Mr. Speaker, I feel that the legislation is timely, I agree with it and I ask the Minister to make sure that it is enforced as well when it comes into effect. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Churchill. MR. BEARD: Mr.

Speaker, I would like to join with the rest in complimenting the Minister on bringing this type of legislation in, it's good. It does bring to mind the trip we made to Expo in fact; and by chance we were talking to some of the people that operated the rides at Expo, and they were talking about the operation at Expo. They said that they had a minimum of breakdown because they had mechanical, electrical and structural checks every night after they closed down rather than waiting for something to happen.

And they found that in this way it's actually saved them money, because the ride wasn't out of action during the day and they were able to prevent not only accidents but prevent the loss of a day's use out of the equipment because of something going wrong.

And I think that -I can't really agree with the Member for Assiniboia when he says that all equipment should be checked at the first of each season or each year because of the great amount of use it does get- if it's very busy, and the amount of packin g and unpacking that is done during that period, three months, or five months in which they travel around the country. Certainly there is bound to be things that go wrong, and I would hope that something could be done to check that up to where it is necessary for them to have almost daily checks on it. It must certainly help their insurance policies.

I'm just not sure how it affected these operations at Expo as far as that was concerned, but I lmow that they did say that it certainly did help them in respect to the money that they took in at the end of the week or a month because of the continuous operations. If I 'm not mistaken, I believe the Minister said something about - should the ride not be closed down until the repairs are made, there would be a fine for each day thereafter. And I believe that would be wrong, if that was what he said, because surely --(I nterjection)-- Oh, well pardon me.

I was just going to say that they shouldn't be allowed to operate if they had found something wrong. But I again do compliment them on this type of legislation. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Rhineland. MR. FROESE: Mr. Speaker, this is

an act to amend the. Amusements Act and I certainly have no objection to the amendments proposed. However, as the Member for Churchill says that -I think it's a matter of course that these rides are checked from time to time and cer tainly by just checking them over once ayear will not do the job. Ho-wever, there are also in spection fees mentioned in the bill, and I would like to know from the Minister whether he

,June 8, 1972 2771 (MR. FROESE cont'd.) . indicated to us just what they have in mind as far as fees is "oncerned.

And since the Act is to come into force 60 days after receiving Royal Ass ent, would it be not preferable to, since this will probably be after the big season is over - July and August wi ll probably be over by then, these are the two big months - and this no doubt, when this t•omes into effect, will mean that they will have to be licenced or at least they 'll have to have the inspection ; whether or not to forego thi s season, so that it would apply equally to all because some areas have their festivi ties probably in fall and others have theirs early in summer , some late summer .

So for that reason I would like to ask the Minister whether this should not be changed. MR. SPEAKER: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion ? The Honourable Member for Brandon West. MR. EDWARD McGILL (B randon West) : Mr . Speaker, just briefly com menting on thi s legislatio n which I belie ve in principle is highly commenda ble, there are a few questions which occur to us.. In certain areas and juri sdictions there may be mu nicipal by-laws that do apply in respect to amusements and amusement rides that are operating within the area of the juri s diction .

Now I'm wondering how this regulation will apply where there is a·local jurisdict ion and a local by-law . I'm wondering too if the 'administra tion of thi s act will require additional staffing; if inspectors that are currently now employed by the Department of Labour will be able to assume these additional duti es without any additional cost. I'm also interested in the com ments and the questions of the Honourable Member from Rhin eland, who wondered what the fees would be for a licence under this act . I presume that there will be some additional expense to the government in carrying out these inspectio ns.

On the other hand, there will be some ad ditional revenue in respect to the iss uance of licen ces, so I suppose one might almost say that what we lose on the swings we pick up on the roundabouts. I have no further comments on this, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : The Honourab le Minister of Labour will be closing debate . MR. PAULLEY: Mr. Speaker, if no one other member wishes to speak on thi s I' d like to reply to some of the comments made . I want to thank honourable members of the As sembly for their general support to this amendment .

May I first of all say to the Honourable Member for Assiniboi a, and in particular to hi s comment as to the enforcement of the provi sions of the amendment - that is that the safety factor in respect of rides at amusement parks or midways will be adhered to . And, Mr.

Speaker, I would like to say to my honourable frien d that the reason, basic reason for the amendment now being proposed is that because when the present Minister of Labour took over the responsibility of mechanical in spection , an order was is sued upon receipt of complaints by interested parents and others, as to the mechanical com plex on the rides to make as sure as it was possible that there would be no chance of injury . So I want to say to my honourable frie nd, long before thi s amendment was brought before the House , the Department of Labour was carrying on inspectio ns .

But on one occasion, one of the operators qf a midway que stio ned as to whether or not the inspectors of the Dep artment of Labour had the right to close down a ride - and this happened in a rural area; it could have happened here of course, in the Unicity of Winn ipeg, but it did happen in a rural community . The matter was drawn to my attention, and t took the stand that I was prepared to be hauled before the court be cause I had is sued an �struction to the inspector to order the operator of that particular ride to stop operatio ns , notwithstanding whether we had the legislative authori ty.

So I want to say to my honourable friend from As sinib oia, it is our desire and our full intention to see that the pro visions of this act are adhered to. And without legisla tive authority , we have been doing our utmost to protect citizens of Manito ba, and in particular the youngsters of Manito ba, from the incident of accidents as the result of enjoying themselves on the rides etc . around our midwa ys. The Honourable Member for Rhine land, I believe it was, Mr.

Speaker - or one of the honourable members raised the question of the 60 -day notice between the giving Royal Ass ent and the effective operation of this legisla tion ; and quite properly poin ted out that 60 days ' noti fication will - possi bly the amusement months will be over. It's a perfectly valid question . However, it does take time of notific ation .

And I suggest however that the ears of the operators of our merry-go-rounds and round -a-bouts are on the Legislative As sembly this afternoon, and I'm sure that within that time period they'll take due note of what this government is attempting to do in order to protect the citizens of our province . The Honourable Member for Rhineland raised the question of fee s, and someone else the question of revenue . The Honourable Member for Brandon West asked whether or not thi s

2772 June 8, 1972 (MR. PAULL EY cont'd.) . . . . . might mean a further increase in the civil service staff in order to accomplish it. Well Mr. Speaker -I was almost going to say that I don't give a damn whether it does or whether it doesn't, but I can't say that because it may be ruled as unparlia mentary.

But as long as the job is done, if it requires an additional inspector or two to see that our children are protected on our merry-go-rounds and our round-a-bouts, I'm prepared to accept the criticisms of the Honourable Member from West Brandon, because I hope as the result of this that there will be no undue accidents to our children as has been the situation in the past. And I think too, that even some have occurred in that great city of Brandon because of the lack of positive legislation such as I 'm proposing here.

And I want to say, on the reve nue side of the balance wheel, I'm not concerned either as to whether one is going to offset the other. The Honourable Member for Brandon West wondered whether or not there would be con flict, if I understood him correctly, with municipal by-laws. As I understand, and I don't know whether things have changed since I was the Mayor of Transcona, the municipality is only con cerned as to whether or not they will permit within the confines of their respective municipal ities, rides and amusement facilities such as referred to in this Act to take place.

There is no intention in this legislation to try and impose any provincial legislation on the desires of the respective municipalities as to whether or not they will have amusement rides within the con fines of their boundary. So I say, Mr. Speaker, I do appreciate the comments of the honourable members of the Assembly in respect of this act.

And I am hopeful that we will be able to utilize the expertise of the Department of Labour of the electricians, the mechanical inspectors and so on, so that after this becomes an effective Act, that our children will be safe-guarded when they take part at the Red River Exhibition, the Brandon Fair and the likes. Or the Morris Stampede - and an accident didn't happen at Morris - and that I might say now that my honourable friend from Lake side has raised it, that was the area where I had the difficulty because I was questioned as to the legislative authority of the Minister of Labour.

And that's where I told them to go .. . And also at Swan River, the Honourable Member, Mr. Speaker - the Honourable Member for Swan River in his seat, and I don't fault him for that - at the rodeo at Swan River, drew this to my attention when I was his guest in his household and I 'm sure be will appreciate that even be was a contributor to this legislation which is progressive. MR. SPEAKER put the question and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. MR. SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister.of Labour; MR. PAULLEY : Mr. Speaker, I would now desire to call Bill No. 63. MR.

SPEAKER: Proposed motion of the Honourable Minister of Labour. The Honourable Minister. MR. PAULLEY presented Bill No. 63

an Act to amend the Workmen's Compensation Act, for second reading. MR. SPEAKER presented the motion. . .... continued on next page

.June 8, 1972 2773 MB. SPEA KER: The Honourable Minister ..of Labour . MB. PAULLEY: Mr. Speaker, I believ e that this is one of the more progressiv e acts to be presented for the consideration of this Assem bly. For a long time we hav e been receiv ing complaints - and I would sugge st both on this side and the other side of the House - as to the provisions of The Workmen's Compensation Act.

Many jurisd ictions hav e been faced with sim ilar problems , and they established judicial inquiry commissions to check into the oper ation of the act - that is The Workmen's Compensation Act - and to report the judicial inquiry ('Ommiss ions to report.

It was the opinion of this government that rather than to cause a ju dicial inquiry into Workmen's Compensation that the Industr ial Relations Committee of th is Assembly be charged with the responsibill ty of hearing representation respecting workm en's t·ompensation; and as a resul t the Industr ial Relations Commi ttee of the Legisla ture was re qu ired by motion of this Assem bly at its last sessi on to meet between sessions and to hear representations in respect of workmen's compensation. And as was reported, Mr .

Speaker, in the early days of thi s present sessi on , after due deliberation and receipt of delegations and briefs to the Industr ial Relations Committee, the Mini ster of Labour was charged wit h the re sponsibility of asses sing the briefs that were presented; and he was also charged with the re sponsibil ity of bringing forward sugge sted amendments to legislation in respect to workmen's compensation- and that is the purp ose, Mr . Speaker, of Bi ll No. 63.

I want to express my personal appreciati on of all of those who are concerned with work men's compensation; all of those who presented briefs to the Committee on Industrial Relations management, labour and interested citizens al ike. I want to extend my appr eciation to the Workmen's Compensation Board and also officials with in the Department of Labour for giving me every ass istance in an endeavour to bring about amendments to workmen's compensation The Workmen's Compensation Act - which may be helpful for all of those who are injured as a resul t of involvement in industry in the Province of Manitoba.

The result, Mr . Speaker , is the bill that we now have before us for the consideration of the Assem bly. In general terms , Mr. Speaker , the amendments proposed to extend the app lica tion of the Act to additional groups and to broaden coverage for persons working out of the province on a temporary basis. It is intended to increase most of the benefit levels, includ � widows' <md children's allowances.

It is intended by thi s Act or amendments to the Act to ultgrade pensions generally and to increase minimum pensions; to clarify that allowances may be paid for attendant care for a cl aimant who is not in a hospital; to provide broader coverage in re spect to al lowances payable for the replacement or repair of hearing aids , eyeglass es, pros thetic devices and the like, damaged or lost, .as the result of an accident whether or not the workman suffers an injury; and for the repair or replacement of clothing where a workman suff ers a compensable accident.

To clar ify th at, a lump sum payment be made to an employee in respect of an injury result ing in a disabili ty of ten percent or less is only in res pect to the condition and circumstances knov,n at the tim e of the settlement. It is intended by these amend ments to provide benefits where a workman returns to work and due to his injury receives less than his pre-accident earnings.

These amendments provide for the establis hment of a Neurosis Heview Pa nel to provide in the Act rather than the regu lations for the establish ment of medi- cal review panels , and to repeal some of the restrictive require m ents respecting the report- ing of hernias . And more precisely, Mr. Speaker , provisions are being made in the act to do the follow ing: In respect of widows' pensions, widows' allowance s -or call it what you wiil - to increase the pension under Workmen's Compensation to widows of deceased workmen from $1 20 per month to $1 50 per month effective the 1st of July of this ye ar.

This increase in pension, Mr. Speaker , I want to point out will apply to those widows who are now on Workmen's Compen sation pensions or allowances as well as those in the future. It is intended in these amend ments that chi ldren under the 10 years of age who are now in a special category will now be eligible for the sam e allowances as those under 16 years of age. In other words, Si r, there will be the elimination of the 10 years and under category; it will be 16 years and und er and I believe that th is is a fir st for the Dominion of Canada.

The allowances for children under the age of 16 will be increased to $6 0 a month from the present $45 per month for those under 10 years of age and $50 per month for those under 16 years of age; in other words, Sir, in some instances there will be an increase of $1 5 per month as at present with those under 10, and an addition of $1 0 per month of those under 16 at the present time. All.owances for chil dren over 16 years of age who are continuing their education will be increased to $70 per month

277 4 June 8, 1972 (MR . PAULLEY cont'd ) ..... from the present $6 0 per month; and where such children are orphans, the allowance will be increased to $80 per month from the present $70 per month. These increases in allowan ces will also become effective on the first day of July of 1972; and will likewis e , Mr .. Speaker, apply to children who are now in receipt of allowanc.es, as well as those who may become eligible after the date of July 1st. It is intende d by these am end ment s that the lump sum payment to widows will be inc reased to $6 50 from $500 effective the day this Act receives the Royal Assent.

Effective the 1st day of July of this year the minim um compensa tion payable in perman ent total disa bil ity ca ses will be increased to $1 75 per month from $150 per month, and the minim um payable in temporary total disa bi lity cases will be in creased to $40 a week from $35. In accordance with a special formula benefits will also be available in temporary partial dis ability cases. More specifically they will be avai lable to workers who return to work, and who due to injury rec.eive less than their pre-acc ident earnings. A further provision in the recom mended amendmen ts , Mr.

Speaker, is as follows: - That all disabi lity pensions in respect of acc idents prior to January 1, 1969 will be increased as follows: Those acc idents and pension benefits accruing in respect of acc idents that happened prior to the 1st of January, 1954 will be increased by a further 9 percent.

For those acci dents between Decem ber 31, '53 and January 1, '5 9, will be increased by a further 7 percent in addition to the change of the base - I want to make that clear; those accidents or recipients as a result of acc idents between Dece mber 31, 1958 and January 1, 1964 , a further increase of 5 percent; those accidents between 196 3, December 31st and the 1st of January , 169, an in crease of a further 3 percent. These incre ases effective the 1st of July will not be retroactive and will apply in partial disabili ty cases where impairment of capaci ty is more than 10 percent. The objective of this, Mr.

Speaker, is to recognize the comparatively lower wage scales that were prevalent in accid ents prior to 1969 than is the case as of today. A further suggested change in The Workmen's Com pensation Act will be that where the impairment of earning capacity is 10 percent or less , lump payments payable in respect to settlement of claims will be mandatory at the request of the workman. At the present tim e unde r the provisions of the Act the Board has the option. Under the proposed amendments the Board may only make a lump sum payment to the workman if he is satisfied; under our pro posal it will be manda tory.

A further change provides that where a lump sum payment is made the settlement is not necessarily final. At the present time under our Workmen' s Compen sation Act if a workman elects to receive a lump settlement , that obviates his eligibili ty for any further cons ideration. It is the intention in the amendments being proposed, Mr. Speaker, that this no longer hold true, that there is no real finality in respect to workmen' s compen sa tion as applied to an individ ual. These ame ndments will become effective on the date of Royal As sent.

Coverage under the Act will be extended to employees in the Undertaking busin ess. It is rather strange , Mr. Speaker, that those in the Undertaking busin ess were not covered under the Act, but they will be. And on applic ation coverage will also be provided to independent contractors. These will apply as of the 1st of January, 173 insofar as the Undertakers are concerned, and independent contractors on the date of the Royal Assent.

Regarding extra provincial coverage , provision is being made to cover workmen tempor arily outside of the province where the workmen usually. work within the province effective on the date of Ro yal Assent. A very important provision, I suggest, Mr. Speaker , is that deal ing with pre-existing conditions. This is one of the areas of complaint that has been prevalent for many years , and a new provision provides for the payment of compensation in respect of a pre-existing condition where the workman suffers an injury -- (Interjection) .- - Mr.

Speaker , a new provision provides for the payment of compensation in respect of a pre-existing condition where the workman suffers an injury and the disabili ty is due to a combination of the injury and a pre-existing or underlying condition. I'm sure my honourable friend from Assi niboia will welcome this change in approach in workmen's compensation.

I'm sure that he will join with me in saying that this is one of the areas of concern ·and complaint over many a year re specting workmen's compensation and it is specifically stated, Sir , that neurosis or psycho neurosis may qualify as a pre-existing or underlying condition not provided for at the present ti me. These changes will become effective on Royal Assent. Regarding the matter of medical review panels , presently the regulations made pursuant to the Act provide for the establi shment of medical boards of reference to review medical

June 8, 1972 2775 (MR. PAULLEY cont'd) ... .. matters. The amendments would repeal these regulations and provide in the Act itself for the establ ishm ent of medical review panels consisti ng of three physicians considered to be expert on the particular medical matter being reviewed. Following a review. by such a panel the report of its opinion must be made in writing to the Bo ard. Also, where such a panel has been establish ed, through request by the workman, a copy of the panel's report to the Board must be given to the workman and to his physic ian. This effect upon Royal Assent, and here again I suggest, Mr.

Speaker, to my colleagues in this As sembly that this has been a source of aggravation to injured workmen. We are intending by this legislation to set up a special panel of experts in the field of neurosis and provision is made for the first tim e for the establi shment of a neurosis review panel. · The panel would consist of three memb ers appointed by the Board for a fixed term, it would review claims involving neurosis or psychon eurosis and it s decision as to whethe.r the workman suffers from neurosis or psychoneurosis would !:>e final and binding upon the Bo ard and the claim ant.

There are a number of other amendments , Mr. Speaker, that I propose , or am propos ing in this legislation dealing strictly with administra tive policies of the Board, such as bor rowing provisions and the like. Another feature of the proposed amendments deal .with the matter of silicosis. I'm sure this will be of interest to the Honourable Member for Churchill and also Fl ln Flon and Thompson. The Act at present' provides that a workman must have been exposed to silicosis dust in his employment for a period of at least five years before he is abl e to qualify for compensation in respect of silicosis.

In keeping with curre�t provis ions ill other.provinces, an amendment to this Act reduces the necess ary tim e of exposure from five to two years , and this will become effectiv e on being given the Royal Assent. Another provision contained within the Act, Mr. Speaker, is a provision that from the consolidated revenues of the Province of Manitoba a contribution , if you want to ca ll i: that - we'll call it that -: to the reserve fund of the Workmen's Compensation Act to the degree of $1 million will be paid.

It is intended, it is intended that by the iss uing of non- interest bearing bonds payable over 12 years from the consol idated revenues of the Province annually an amount approximating $84, 000 will be paid into the rese1·ve fund of the Workmen's Co mpens ation Board. By this, Mr. Speaker, \l.'e recognize a point raised by industry on a number· of occasio ns that the whole of the cost of past pensions or past accidents should not be charged w indus tries operating today.

GOvernment in its consideration felt that it would be reasonably fair to accept at least part of costs of the provision in respect of past pensions to injured workmen, their widows and the children to the degree of a million dollars. It is our esti mate that it will cost in total between four and fi ve millions of dollar s to provide for the increased benefits suggested under the amendments I now present to this Assem l-ly for its consiciP-ration. Finally, Mr.

Speaker, I want to say that I realize quite fully that there are many who will consider that we are not going far enough ;in the proposed amendments that I have an nounced today. I accept that , Sir. I also recognize that there are many ;vho will be saying that we're going too far in making these provisions.

I do say , Sir, that on average, or on balance the provisions and changes that I am suggesting for the consideration of this Assembly will give Manitobans , if not the most progress ive Workmen's Compensation Act in Canada, in many respects it \\ill pro vide to our workmen who are unfortunately injured in industry a better shake, to use that phraseology, than they've ever had in the past. I am prepared as l indicated, Mr. Speaker, to accept criticisms that we have gone too far, that we have not gone far enough.

We have earnestly attempted to produce a reasonable Workmen's Compensation Act, reasonable provisions for injured workmen and I recommend this measure to the Assembly. MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Swan River. MR . JAMES H. BILTON (Swan River): Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the Honourable Minis ter would answer a couple of brief questions I have? He spoke of a million dollar grant from the Provincial Treasury. Is that a million dollars each year? I wonder als o, Mr. Minister, do you foresee any increases in the rates to employers in the foreseeable future? MR . SPEAKER: Order, please. MR .

PAULLEY: I trust I will not be closi ng the debate if I do answer the questions. If I am, Mr. Speaker, I would defer doing that. MR . SPEAKER: Is it the desire of the House to proceed with the moti on ? In that case,

277 6 June 8, 1972 MR . SPEAKER cont'd) . the Honourable Minister of Labour will be clos ing debate. The Honourable Member for Morris. MR . JORGENSON: ... perfectly agreeable to allow him to answer that question . MR . SPEAKER : I should like to indicate that I think our procedure in the past has been that the member has presented a bill, unless it was a specific question in regard to some clarification on a particular point, I would not entertain a question that's going to open further debate.

I would entertain that we proceed in normal fashion with debate and the Minister close debate and answer all the questions at that particular time, otherwise we'll have a cros s-fire of back and forth questions continually. The Honourable Member �for Morris. MR . JORGENSON: On that point, Mr. Chairman, that's perfectly agreeable to us . I had assumed, perhaps erroneously, that you had allowed the 'question. If you have not, Sir, then I agree with you that it should not be permitted to be answered.· MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Labour. MR . PAULLEY: Mr.

Speaker, I could answer the two precise questions of my honour able friend, on the general understanding of course that I' m not closing the debate because I think this is such an important matter to all Manitobans that the debate should not be closed this afternoon. But I am prepared to answer the two precise questions and I trust that this will not of course get into a debate or the likes of that. MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Labour wish to answer those particular questions or does the Honourable Member for Swan River wish to carry the debate.? MR .

BILTON: I appreciate your opinion and you did comment to the effect that the ques tion ought to be asked relative to something that the Minister said, I apologize if I have dis turbed the oper ation of the House but if you would allow that question I think it would be well worthwhile at this time. MR . SPEAKER : The Honourable Minister of Labour. MR . PAULLEY: Mr. Chairman, my honourable friend from Swan Ri ver asked me in respect of the contribution of a million dollars , whether this would be annually. The answer is no.

It is a contribution, to call it that, from the Consolidated Revenue amortized over a twelve year period in respect of past pensions , to help bear the cost of past pensions. His second question dealt with the matter of increased assessment on industry. The answer is that it's very likely that there will be increased assessments because of the fact that we are increasing pensions in respect of both past and future pension awards to injured workmen. MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Member for Fort Garry. MR . L. R. (Bud) SHERMAN (Fort Garry): Mr.

Speaker , if nobody else wishes to speak at this time I wish to move, seconded by the Honourable Member for Roblin that the debate be adjourned. MR . SPEAKER pre sented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried. MR . SPEAKER: The Honourable Minister of Finance. HON. SAUL CHER NIACK Q. C. (Minister of Finance) (St. Johns): Mr. Speaker , I beg to move , seconded by the Honourable Minister of Tour ism, Recreation and Cultural Affairs, that Mr. Speaker do now leave the Chair and the House resolve itself into committee to consider the Supp ly to be gr anted to Her Majesty. MR .

SPEAKER presented the motion and after a voice vote declared the motion carried and the House resolved itself into a Committee of Supply with the Honourable Member for Logan in the Chair. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY MR . CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Minister of Tour ism, Recreation and Cultural Affairs. MR . DESJARDINS: Thank you , Mr. Chairman. I'd like to keep on answering some of the questions that was asked of me the other day. First of all I would like to make a correc tion and thank the Honourable Member from Charleswood who drew it to my attention.

On Janu uary 7th, in a Press release on a Gimli project it was stated that 150 unit permanent trailer site was to be constructed as part of this project. Well, this is indeed an error. A trailer park will be constructed but it is to serve transient campers and vacationers rather than being a mobile home subdivision as the release might imply. Then I have a short statement-- the Honourable Member from Birtle-Russell I think that he was speaking just when the hour to adjourn was upon us. He . was talking about the houseboat and I have a very short statement on that.

The houseboat are a relatively new kind of recreational facility, they are making an appearance in some of the park areas, that's true ,

June 8, 1972 2777 (MR. DESJAR DINS cont'd) . and houseboats must be prohibited since they constitute a pollution hazard and they take up unne ces sary space at public mooring sites and use public service at no cost to the owner. I might say that we probably will have at this ses sion - make amendments to the Parks Act, and we hope that this will be taken ca re of at the time. Now, Mr. Chairman, just a few minutes ago the First Minister proclaimed the "Fri endly Manitoba Week" that'll be from the 11th to. the 17th.

The proclam ation, this is a first step in an intensive in-province advertising , this is the first time that we've done that actually, an informational camp aign by the Tourist Branch urging Man itobans to travel more and spend their vacation within the province and to inform others of Manitoba's attraction as a vacation playground. Manitoba is widely known as the friendly province and tourism is one of the major earners of export dollars for the provi nce by attracting tourists and vacation ers from other parts of Canada and the United States.

Manitoba's hospitality is appreci ated by tourists; ,how ever , the majority of Manitobans are not really aware of the many varied things this province has to offer to the vacationing public. We look on every Man itoban as a goodwill ambassa dor for the province ; the more ea ch one knows about other parts of the province through having been there , enjoying the attraction and getting to know other Manitobans the better equipped he will be to fill this role. During Friendly Manitoba Week, promotional material will be pre sented urging Mani tobans to travel and plan vacations in Manitoba.

Every Manitoba family is invited to obtain a free copy of the Manitoba Vaca tion Handbook containing detailed information about travel routes, acco mmodati on, points of interest and special events in the province. Copies are available from the local Tourist Information Office or from the Tourist Branch at 408 Norquay Building , Mr. Chairman. MR. CHAIRMAN: Order , please. There don't seem to be too many in the Chamber but we're making an awful lot of racket. MR. DESJAR DINS: Participa tion in Fr iendly Manitoba Week is ea sy.

Just pick up a de stination, drive there with your family and spend some time getting to know the place and the people. Do it often and you too will discover Frie ndly Manitoba. Mr. Chairman, I am very pleased at this time to introduce a young lady, a young lady that was just name d Miss Fr iendly Manitoba. She is an ambass ador of goodwill and will be trave lling about the province this summer to tell other Manitobans the story of Manitoba the Friendly Province. She is Mis s Janette Walker; she is sitting with Mr. Organ our Director of Tourism in the Gallery of the Speaker.

Miss Walker is a 21 year old education student at the Universi ty of Manitoba who holds a BA degree , has hobbies in sports, reading and travel and likes meeting and talking to people. Miss Walker was the last lady stick at St. John's College, she has been active on student coun cils through universi ty and was Freshie Chairman and public relations director for St. John's during the 1969/70 season. She has been involved in choir work and explorers in her church.

Her background coupled with a friendly outgoing perso nality has fitted Miss Walker well to fill the role of "Miss Frien dly Manitoba." In this role she will appe ar at all major fair s, festival s, rodeos and other special events throughout Manitoba this summer. She has alre ady partici pated in major tourism, marketing prese ntation, sponsored by the Manitoba Tourist Branch in several cities and neighbouring states across the United States bord er. Miss Walker says she is looking forward to vis iting with people across the province.

"I want to talk to people face to face , on radio and television and through newspaper colums to impre ss upon them that Manitoba is a friendly province and they are all part of it", Miss Walker said. I'm sure that she's going to do a good job for Manitoba. Mr. Chairman, members might have noticed also that while they were walking in this Chamber today they had other char ming girls who presen ted them with a booklet suggesting that they join a club , and the badge of Fr iendly Manitoba.

These charmin g girls are also students , come to us through the STEP Program and they will be - I thbk that we will have 16 of these young ladie s. Eight of these students will be based right here at the Legis lative Build ing. They will act as guides for groups of four to fifteen visitors wanting to go on a planned walking tour. I think that there's no point in me repeating this. This was announced last week and I hope that you will help pro mote these tours, these young girls are ai1Xious to please the tourists , as my honourable friend from Roblin stated.

The four girls that were at the doors of this Chamber were Miss Sandy Wolochuk, Miss Jennifer Young , Miss Carol Love and Miss Marguerite Cormier and there are sixteen in all. Not all at the Building here but some at our Tourist Information Booth at the Airport , the Polo Park Shopping Centre and the Bay and Eatons.

2778 June 8, 1972 (MR . DESJAR DINS cont'

d) Mr. Chairman, the Honourable Member from Churchill asked me som ething about national park and time did not permit me to give him the proper answer and I would like to make a statement on the national park. I think this is something that is quite interesting to many of the members. There has been a good deal of controversy over the policy in National Parks and on the establishment of a second National Park in the Province.

Firstly , it must be understood that land found suitable for National Park purposes must be of special quality or have an uniqueness warran ting preservation and protection by the Federal Government. In our discussions with the Federal officers we are aware of their special interest in Manitoba. These may inc lude for example, a wild river such as the upper Chur chill, upstream from Granville Lake, Poplar, Berens or Blood Vein Rivers on the east side of Lake Winnipeg. Or as another example , a

section of the Hudson's Bay lowland centering on the area between Churchill and Cape Tatnam on James Bay. All of these have qualities unlike areas currently in the National Park system and therefore would serve to broaden the variety of National Park experiences available to Can adians and our visitors. We are co-operating with the National Park people in studies in some of these areas this summer. We believe in the National Park's idea that representative or unique parts of our country should be preserved in posterity for recrea tional and scientific study purposes.

With the pace of development in the country one can foresee where the special landscape , wildlife, habitats and our natural and human historical assets could easily be obliterated. However, there are complica tions in the process of establishing a National Park once an area has been found suitable. The National Park policy requires that the prescribed land be turned over to the Federal Government free of all e ncumbrances. This means that the particu lar area no longer comes under provincial jurisdiction for any purpose whatsoever.

Hunting, fishing, trapping, timber harvesting, mineral exploration are not general ly permitted. It re quires therefore that a careful evaluation be made of the overall costs to Manitoba in any trans fer of lands for a National Park. In some areas the benefits of establishing a National Park other than for conser vation purposes, which are important in ·themselves , may be minimal. The access to the resources traditionally held by our native people is a most important question.

The importance of the mineral, forest,c omm ercial fishing resources when in the area selected are other considerations: When not adequately inventoried these may limit important economic development options for all time. Now, Mr. Chairman, together with the Department of Mines and Res ources Manage ment we are examining the area suggested from these points of view: Certainly we wish to protect and pre serve the important recrea tional and ecological re sources of the province but at the same time we would like to know at what cost.

There was some concern expressed over the current policy of the National Park Services to close out some of the long established business lease in Ri ding Mountain. This was something I think that was brought up by the Member for Roblin. To the best of our knowledge only the roller skating rink has so far been closed out. Much of the apprehension expressed by local citizens is not founded on fact but is largely ru: mours that we have not been able to substantiate but we will try to keep posted.

A new master plan for Ri ding Mountain is in preparation with completion and public hear ings expected to be held some time this fall or early spring. The new plans would be unveiled at that time. When we have had all the opportunity to study this rest assured that the in terest of Manitobans will be foremost in our presentation, that is the province presentation. I was also asked about the camp grounds in some of the - the accelera ted capital work projects that we had done this year. I think it was the Honourable Member from Churchill. A..."l.d I can enumerate some of them.

There was Adam Lake, Turtle Mountain Provincial Park, Ases sippi Provincial Park, Bird Lake Provincial Recrea tional Area, Bird's Hill Provincial Park, Buffalo Lake Wayside , Childs Lake, Duck Mountain Provincial Park, Red River Flood way Recrea tional Development , Grand Bea ch Provincial Park Ca mp Ground , Grindstone Pro vincial Recrea tional Are a, Hadashville Ca mp Ground , Hecla Provincial Park, Kiski Wayside, Lac du Bonnet Ca mpground, Lynch Point Provincial Recrea tional Are a, Manitoba Provincial Re creational Area, Minago Wayside , Nutimik Lake Campground, Whiteshell Provincial Park, Paint Lake Provincial Recrea tional Area Cam pground, Ra inbow Bea ch Provincial Recrea tion Area , St.

Ambroise Garage Provincial Re creation Area, St. Malo Provincial Re creation Area,

June 8, 1972 2779 (MR. DESJARDINS cont'd ) ... . . Stephenfield Provincial Recr eationArea, Treherne-Ra thwell Wayside, Wekusko Lake Wayside, West Hawk Lake Campgrounds in the Whiteshell Provincial Park. The need to create additional winter jobs in Manitoba has prompted the Department through the Pa rks Br anch to undertake a nu mber of significant accelerated work projects such as those mentioned, Mr. Speaker. These projects are intended both to create jobs and to create much needed recreational facilities.

Ca mp grounds are being constructed at the Ontario border, on the Trans- Canada Highway, at Bird Lake, Nutimik Lake as 1 mentioned, all those that'! mentioned. Day-use facilities are being developed in Bird's Hill Prov incial Park and at Adam Lake as mentioned, some of the other places. A nu mber of improvements are unde r way to wayside in western and northern Manitoba as well as some new development. There are new programs included in the acceler ated budget. Three just beginning and one is almost completed.

The first is a modest begin ning on the design and future development of Re creation of Space and Opportunity around the Re d River Floodway but we certainly want to push this. I mean there has been planting of trees now for a number of years and you can't see too much of that, it's not too visible, but we hope to push this a little more. We hope by next winter anyway that some of these places on the Floodway will be operating for winter sports.

And of course there 's this new Tourist Rec eption Centre that I mentioned, I think most of them here , and also the Pine Grove Hall - this is the Hadashville Campground. There is no point in mentioning all those again, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Honourable Member for Po int Douglas , who 's not here now for his kind remarks and his concern for the people in having the respons ibility of government , of this Department to help them take advantage of their leisure time and I can assure him that we will keep that in mind. There is som ething else that I just touched on the last - two days ago, Mr.

Chairman, was the Statistics Canada - the statement that I made coming from Statistics Canada for the period of January 1st to April 30th of this year , showed that Manitoba had a 28 percent increase in U. S. vehicles entering the province. I believe this to be very significant statistics and by no means an accidental occurrence . It is the direct re sult of good programming and marketing policies by the Tourist Branch of this department - and this is long before I got in this depart ment, Mr. Chairman.

The increase is especially significant in light of the fact that on a Canada-wide basis tour ism has declined by roughly 12- 1/2 percent in the first three months of this year. Yet the Statistics Canada release shows that British Columbia recorded approxi mate 3- 1/2 increase , Alberta and Nova Scotia had almost insignificant increase, but all of the other Canadian provinces had a decrease in U. S. vehicle entries. So the increase here in Manitoba is very important.

Those that criticize Manitoba's record in the field of tourism should perhaps examine Manitoba's record in comparison with the rest of Canada, and particularly with those provinces with similar budgets. Manitoba in the past few years has been at the top three in percentage of increase in the development of tour ism and this includes the development of parks , com mer cial hotels , motels and festival attractions. We admit that we have not been strong in develop ment in the resort field but we are endeavouring to rectify this situation now.

Any profess ional marketing man knows that you can find at least several different ways of marketing any pr oduct and that the selection of the method or methods to be used is a matter of experience and judgment. The tourist bus iness is certainly no exception. We believe our judg ment has been, or I should say the judgment of the department has been reaso nably sound and I would suggest that statistical results prove this out. This department is well recognized as having one of the best travel research organizations in Canada to assist in determining the best methods of marketing.

We use the most sophisticated methods available when defining our mar kets, our potential visitors within these markets and the proper vehicle with which to carry our message to that market. For instance, many of our advertisements are pre-tested with the public prior to being used and we carry out extensive conversation programs to determine how many people visit Manitoba as a result of our media advertising program ..

Also we plug it through the Federal Government's Computer Program System which will determine in minutes the type of market, the type of leadership, or viewing or listener that we can reach by any par ticular media mix that may be selected. Each of our approximate 175 ,0 00 tour ist enquiries also goes on oomputer records for

2780 June 8, 1972 (MR . DESJARDINS cont'd) ..... future reference and research, and for checking each media for it s specific value as a motivator - I believe that the mix we have in our marketing program is one of the best - refers to the sports show programs which complement our direct media advertising, and their recently instituted mall promotion programs in our near market areas which were a departure from the traditional methods of marketing. A well balanced program is a basic necessity. I believe that Manitoba can take the credit for first developing mall pro grams on a provincial basis.

This was recognized at the travel and convention meeting that they had in Victoria just a few weeks ago. This year we were again in Moorhead, Bismarck and Minot. And I might mention that the department received very complimentary marks on the development of this particular pro gram at the recent Travel Industry Association Convention, as I mentioned. Our Editor's Tour Program has been recognized as one of the most outstanding in Canada and the non-paid editorial exposure that Manitoba received in magazines and newspapers is a testimonial to the success of this program.

The department has also produced a series of travel films in the past and a recent one "Festival Country" won several movie awards and was the first provincial travel film to be converted to 35 mm for showing in motion picture theatres across the continent. This year the department plans to produce another new travel film which will feature northern Manitoba. I think that we are just receiving the bid now. Manitoba is a front rank competitor for the tourist and the tourist dollar in relation to the amount offim.ds that are devoted to both development and marketing in this field.

Based on a per staff unit input I su ggest that we could challenge any province to match the program as carried out by this department in the degree of success achieved. Let me not hesitate to add that I do not believe we should stand on our past laurels and I fully recognize that there is much more that can be done to develop the tourist industry to its highest potential.

As I mentioned previously, amendments to the Department Act will make provision for a tourist advisory coun cil - and by this means I and my staff plan to meet on regular basis with the key representatives from all of the industries involved in development of tourism in the province in order to gain and take advantage of the ideas, problems and advice that the representatives can give us in our effort to further develop the industry.

But I think that probably the greatest advantage that we have is that our people here in Manitoba are so friendly, and I think that this is known cer tainly all across the continent and I hope that we will continue with this. Now there has been some I believe to be sincere criticism expressed in the House of some of the advertisements in the U. S. national magazines. Some particular fault was found with one that appeared in the New Yorker this spring. I think the Honourable Member from Fort Garry, in fact one of my colleagues also didn't like the ad.

The reaction of any individual to any particular advertisement is a very personal thing. I think this is true whether or not you are talking about television, radio or advertisements appearing in the written media. What highly appeals to one individual may offend another. The feel of advertising is a highly special ized and competitive one which attracts very creative people. Sometimes one takes a flier on the different types of advertisement with an unusual appro ach and we are not always certain of the overall reaction and results .

But if we are to be innovative we must occasionally try some controvers ial advertising. The great bulk of our magazine media advertising is concentrated in family type national magazines with some support in specialized sports and outdoor maga zines. The New Yorker advertisement was aimed at a very specific group of people and was therefore admittedly somewhat different from the usual form of tourist advertisement. The State of New York is an important potential market to our province insofar as the travel industry is concerned.

The reason for advertising in the New Yorker was an attempt to create an awareness of this province in the sophisticated New York market. This is the market that has a great deal of money to spend and one that would take advantage of motel or hotel ac commodation during a visit in the pro vince rather than use our camp grounds which are so much in demand. I do not think that we can be faulted for trying to further develop this lucrative mar ket.

In order to understand the advertisement -- and I must confess that I had the same re action as the honourable member when I first saw it, I couldn't figure out what they were trying to do -- I think it is necessary to be familiar with the person that the Honourable Member from Fort Garry called a conceited New Yorker studying a butterfly, who is the central character of the advertisement. This particular character is synonymous with the New Yorker publication and one that their loyal readers are particularly fond of. The character is quite famous in New

June 8, 1972 2781 (MR. DESJARDINS cont'd) . . York publi shing circle s and is well recognized by the vast majority of people who would read any given issue of the New Yorker. The gentlemari's name is Eustache Tilley, who was the creation of one of the ea rly staff members of the New Yorker magazine , Mr. Cory Ford, a humourist and sports writer. The character is a spoof of what was felt to be the typical Danny of the period when he first appeared in 1925 and he is featured every year in the New Yorker anniversary issue which appears the third week in February.

I'm sure that not everyone will consider the New York er advertisement to be a good one but I thought that you would be interested in the background of the advertisement which may not have been apparent to non-regular readers of the New York magazine. I should confess that I' m certainly one of them but after I received this explanation I felt that probably the ad was a good one.

I've received a comp liment, of course some of the people were made aware of the criticism received in this House and some of the people from the New Yorker sent me some material explaining this also and telling me of the reaction that they had. Mr. Chairman, I think - I hope that this is all. I've tried to answer all the questions that was asked me so far and in case there are some others, I'd like to ... MR. CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Member for Assiniboia. MR. PATRICK: Mr.

Chairman, perhaps I can begin by congratulating Miss Walker, who has been chosen as Miss Manitoba, and I'm sure that she will certainly be a great credit to the Minister's Department in promoting tourism in this province. Perhaps the first question, before I get into my remarks, that I would ask the Minister - I know that he has created a considerable amount of interest in his Estimates and a consider able amount of debate has already taken place.

But he indicated that Manitoba stands quite high in respect to other provinces as to the tourists coming into this province , and the Minister has given us some figures. Perhaps - in my opinion I feel our tourist industry is somewhere in the beginning stage; and it's only natural that a very high increase in traffic - or people that Manitoba border - that this would only be natural because our tourist industry is somewhat in a beginning stage, which is not so in some of the other provinces; or can he give us the statis tics of total entries in this province as compared with some of the other provinces.

I feel this would be some indication how our tourist industry compares to some of the other provinces. But I'll get into that a little later. The first point that I wish to make is I believe that the philosophy of lotteries, that reve nue should be used for recreational and cultural purp oses. I think it's a great breakthrough for recreation in this pro vince. I think that we need money for some capital co:;;ts, and particu larly in many areas - not only in parts of Manitoba, but as well in the metropolitan area for such things as artificial ice and recreational facilities.

I know that in some of the other prov inces , and particularly eastern Canada, very small centres - 10, 000, 5, 000 population centres that have artificial ice; and some with 20 , 000 population would have two artificial ice. So in my opinion, that the grants should develop a program to involve Manitobans in certain competi tive sports; and to have grants for training of coaches and instructors is certainly a good one.

I believe that the lotteries -- that the revenue from the lotteries will certainly be of great assistance to - not only to pro mote coaches and instructors as such but I hope that grants will definite ly be used in assisting to develop centres that will be utilized by many of these people.

I' m sure that everybody's aware that we are every year having a shorter work week, and there is more and more people that have more leisure time - and I believe that everyone would sort of summarize that physical fitness is the ability to fill one's place as an active member of society in a way that he would have enough energy to take one's place in the soc iety; and also to do it in a very healthy and not in a fatigued way, and I believe there's more and more people are very conscious in this day of their physical fitness.

And I think that not only the Minister has to give consideration to prepare people for more leisure, but as well to create facilities where they can participate in physical fitness. My question to him is - I know that I've had a couple of requests - how do organizations apply or where can they get applications. I know the Minister has stated as to the policy, and the grants will be available.

But I've had a re quest from people in my constituency - and I have taken the time myself to contact the City of Winnipeg and I've went to about five or six departments , and they could find nobody in the City Hall that could direct me to the right place, and nobody that was even familiar with the policy that 1he Minister stated to the House. So perhaps if he can either acquaint the Grants Chairman of the City of Winnipeg or the Clerk's Office to whom the people can direct their requests and where the applications can be secured, I think .this would be of some assistance.

2782 June 8, 1972 (MR. PATRICK cont'

d) My other point, Mr. Chairman, I know that the Minister has talked about the job that the department is doing and I wish to compliment him because it sounds quite encouraging. In northern Manitoba I wonder if he has involved - or is there any opportunity for the native people to be involved in operating or running any of the tourist or recreation facilities for our tourists. I believe that there may be one area that can be explored and may be explored with the Minister of Labour , where native people can get involved in the tourist industry.

I think this would be one way of cre ating employment in north ern Manitoba, and this may be a good area to start. I believe also that perhaps the opportunities in tourism is much greater in Mani toba than perhaps many other industries, and perhaps the Minister can do some kind of a re search within his own department to see what kind of an impact that tourism can have on the Province of Manitoba. I know that money spent in Manitoba by visitors represents export of service s, and really represents wages in this province .

I know that there has been a small incre ase , a modest increase in his Es timates , but I am told that I understand myself that it is still smaller than probably the salaries and the wages that are paid for the licens ing Bureau within the Motor Vehicle Branch. So in my opinion we could have spent more money in this department because tourist industry is a very labour intensive industry; creates many jobs. And not only that we can create many jobs for our students during the summer, we can also create jobs for say people that are working on the farms - for these people during the winter time.

Since it is very labour intensive , perhaps it's time that we've taken another look and see how we can expand the to urist and really make it a much larger industry than it is at the present time. I know that one thing that has been pointed out and has come to my attention - and has been stated in some of the reports that has been prepared for the government in some years ago - that there 's been a gradual decline by the tourist - by that I mean there may be more tourists coming to Manitoba but their stay in Manitoba has been shorter.

At one time it has been something four or five days, and it has been decreased to three days - and it's been de creasing, the length of stay in Manitoba. And I would like to point out if the Minister has given any con sideration - what were the reasons , or what are the reasons for the tourists not staying longer in Manitoba ? I believe that we are quite rich in historical sites in this province; per haps they have not been developed to the point that they should have been, and not publicized properly.

But surely we have some real good regional attractions , and many of these tourists can surely be attracted to these regional attractions; such things as the Morris Stampede; the Northwest Stampede in Swan River , which I know the Member for Swan Ri ver certainly publi cizes sufficiently here - but I wonder if the tourists travelling through the province are suffi ciently aware.

There 's Altona Sunflower Festival; the Northwest Stampede; the Icelandic Fes tival; the Trout Fe stival, Brandon Fair, Manisphere, and of course the Buffalo Barbecue which has certainly has been growing in leaps and bounds and attracts many thousands of people. So perhaps the Minister can examine why the tourists do not stay longer in Manitoba. As I mentioned we have many historical site s; perhaps have some of these have to be updated, and repairs to the extent that they can be really great attractions. Manitoba certainly has a very exciting history because it was the frontier when western Canada was developed.

This is the area when all the people had to travel through; this is the place where the buffalo hunts took place and certainly it is very rich; it's got a very rich history in its development, so these things should perhaps be pointed out and certainly we can to some extent capitalize on that publicity. I also understand that there's only about 37 percent of the tourists entering Manitoba that do stay - or 30 percent of the tour ists stay in Winnipeg; and the rest spread out throughout Manitoba, and this is itself an indic ation that these attractions throughout the province should be publicized.

We have such things as the Lower Fort Garry; and of course we have now four boats on the river which are ce rtainly an attraction; and we have the most lucrative and the best, I understand, Derby now ran in Canada, it's the richest purse I under stand in Canada. This could certainly be an attraction. I did not hear the Minister elaborate too much on the Birds Hill Park. I think it's probably one of the best things that ever happened to the City of Winnipeg , to have a park that's some nine or ten thousand acres large so close to the city - within 15 miles or 20 minute s from the city.

And I understand it has a capacity for small ca mper trailers - I would like to know what the capacity is - and this in itself is a great attraction to many people travelling, that modes of travel today by car and pulling a camper trailer which this park would accommodate I understand thousands uf trailers. This I believe should be publicized and certainly would be an attraction.

June 8, 1972 2783 (MR . PATRICK cont'

d) There's another point that maybe the Minister can get together with the Minister of Highways - I know it doesn't pertain to him particularly , but I understan d on the weekends, and I've seen it between here and Birds Hill Park - you see thousands of bicycles on the high way, and there has been quite a few accidents as of recent.

I wonder if it would be possible at least close proximity to Winnipeg - to have a .certain lane marked off - say, be it 5 or 6 feet along the highway - particularly to our parks, a park like Birds Hill Park - a lane strictly for bicycles, and this may be worthwhile cons ideration which may eliminate some accidents. So perhaps the Minister can get together with the Minister of Highways and see if this could be possible. I believe that there are other things that the. Minister should be giving consideration to for developing the tourist industry.

And perhaps such things can be cons idered as international auto racing that could be -- cross country auto racing that could be held in perhaps southwest Manitoba. We could develop also an air show the type that they have, I believe , in B. C. be cause we have naturally better facilities , be it Rivers or Portage la Prairie - than some of the centres in B. C, - an international air show that we could take advantage of.

I know that we're told and we will be in a World Hockey League - I hope it materializes; if it doesn't I · believe the Minister should start thinking about a National Hockey League franchise if the World Hockey League doesn't materialize. I think that certainly the National Hockey League has not treated Ca nada fairly, when you have lOO percent of the players come from this country and the Vancouver Canucks have to fight and struggle to get a franchise in that city. And it took them a long time before they finally got one and the price was so high that it was pretty difficult to find investors in this co untry.

I think it's a shame that this happened. Rea lly I think that cons ideration should have been given quite a few years ago to a franchise , not only one more . franchise in Canada - for two or more since more of your players do come from this country. So this is something that the Minister will have to think about.

I believe that the sports facilities at the arena are now expanded, and I think that they will have to be continued to be expanded because you have to look into the future - to look into the future of ten years from now and twenty years from now when we will have 700, 000 people in this city instead of waiting and proba bly losing the professional sports that we have at the present time. So these are a few of the things that I wan ted to put on the record.

I know much has been said by many other members and there's very little left to say because most of the mem bers have pretty well touched everything that there was to talk on, Mr. Chairman. I also be lieve that the Minister can prom ote our tourist industry by perhaps showing some proper brochures - or making proper brochures and sending them to such tourist agents in say, Minneapolis, Chicago and maybe having a tourist convention -- type of a tourist convention in Minneapolis where you can show slides to all your travel agents in the Minneapolis centre , what there is to see in Manitoba.

And perhaps this could be repeated in at least the midwest cities within say a thousand miles from Winnipeg. Surely I think there is lots to see in Manitoba, and I think that this is one way of promoting tourism in a not too expensive way . because if we facilitate most of the travel agents say, in Minneapolis and have a one-day show and through a slide projection tell them what there is in this Province , I'm sure that this would certainly be a tremendous amount of publicity that we can gain. MR . CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Member for Swan River. MR . MACKLING: Swan Ri ver? I was just going to ask a question.

I thought the honourable member would answer a question. I'm sorry I wasn't listening all that close ly; I apologize for the honourable membe r, but I don't think I heard him say anything about the Museum in St. Jame s-Assi niboia. Would he care to correct me if I'm wrong. Did he mention that? MR . PATRICK: Well I want to thank the Attorney-General very much for re minding me. I did not mention it but I perhaps was going to mention it.

I am very much familiar with ;be museum and -- (Interje ction)-- I would not only say that this is certainly - would be a good attraction to all the tourists coming into Winnipeg to visit St. James-Assi niboia to see our Museum. And also to see our wild prairie , which is the only one of its type I understand in existence in North America; which is in its natural state , where you can see thousands and thousan!fs of wild flowers in its natural state.

In fact I under stand that some of the biologists and some of the people have even found footprints of .the buffalos that were grazing in that area many hundreds of years ago. So there 's certainly a great am ount of :thlngs that could be said about the wild prairie , the Museum inst . James-Assi niboia as well - the Museum in

2784 June 8, 1972 (MR. PATRICK cont'd) ..... St. James-As siniboia. So it's - could not only be a great tourist attraction to our tourists , but as well as to many of the people in this House that would make themselves acquainted with it. So I believe with this type of a promotion we may be on a real start, great big tourist boom for -this province and the type of enthusiasm that the Minister has shown, I believe that certainly this can be increased.

I did not hear the Minister say if he has any tourist information centres in the two large cities - I' m talking again about Chicago and Minneapolis where the majority of our tourists come from, from the midwest States. So this would be an idea which again I feel would not be a great expense. I understand that at least many people that have studied this area of tourism tell us that this industry can be expanded as much as ten times in a very short while.

If this is true , then I'd say we should certainly take the opportunity and do it. 0 The other point that the Minister just mentioned before he sat down that our parks are full, that tourists are really - the percentage of tourists coming to Manitoba has increased substantially; and if this is so, is there any other lakes aside from Hecla that we're aware of is there any other lakes that the Minister has in his long range program, is considering opening. I am particularly referring to lakes like West Hawk or Falcon Lake and so on. MR. CHAIRMAN: Order.

Is the honourable member still answering that one question that he was asked. MR. MACKLING: On a point of order , I rose - I indicated the honourable member that I wanted to ask him a question. He sat down so that I could put my question to him. MR. CHAIRMAN: Oh I see. MR. MACKLING: Yes. MR. PATRICK: Well, Mr. Chairman, was my time up or ... MR. CHAIRMAN: No, no, I thought- I understood that you had sat down. MR. PATRICK: I answered the question and I continued in my remarks. So I believe I answered the questions . So perhaps the Minister can give some consideration to the points that I raised to him.

Again I say the exhibits of Manitoba attractions can be perhaps displayed in at least a few large cities. And I'm interested since our parks are utilized to such a great extent, to the fullest extent. Is the Minister giving any consideration to opening some -I don't say opening, you don't have to develop the lake as a commercial attraction but surely you can open it to the extent that build a roadway to a lake where people would be interested to get in there to either fish or put tents up.

I'm talking about Manitoba people themselves who really like to explore back woods and remote areas at the lakes and do some fishing. So this is something that the Minister can be giving some consideration to. Birds Hill Park, I feel it has not been promoted to the extent that it should have been - Birds Hill Park, particularly the facilities that we have there for camper trailers and parking for few days in there.

I think that there's - at least we were told at one time that there will be facilities for at least 5, 000 trailers or more and I would like to know to what extent we have tourists using this park and so on. The Minister did not say too much about skiing. I believe this is probably one of the fastest growing recreation thing that has probably gripped not only this part of the country but all over, and I think there is potential to expand this.

And a place like - at least Falcon Lake, you have good, really good facilities there, you have a real excellent chalet with three tow ropes; I think that you would keep more people utilizing this not only on a Sunday but perhaps it could be utilized say for three days of the week, Fridays , Saturdays and Sundays - or four days , - and during the Christmas holidays - and maybe some parts of the winter it could be utilized all week.

But one point - there are many people that are just not able to use the tow rope be cause the hills are - it's not a gradual hill, it's a very steep hill almost straight up and it's very difficult for many people to use a tow rope when it's so steep. And you find many people going by Falcon Lake and going on to Kenora where they can use aT -Bar.

So perhaps the Minister can give consideration to installing, I'm not saying that every tow rope should be re placed by a T-Bar, but at least maybe we could have one T-Bar somewhere in Manitoba. - (Interjection)-- Yes, I appreciate that from the Honourable Member for Ste . Rose; but the one at McCreary is almost getting to the point on a weekend, when you have a nice weekend it's like skiing in Japan where people go to the mountainside and they wait from five to six hours to get on a chair lift or a T-Bar and they may only get one ski downhill in a day - and that's a great skiing day they' ve had.

They travel for hundreds of miles to get there. Now McCreary is al most at that point - when you get on a weekend, if you get 1, 500 .or 2, 000 people there you have

June 8, 19 72 2785 (MR. PATRICK cont'd) . to wait in line almost half an hour to an hour before you can, you know, take one .ride up the hill. So it's a pretty long wait - so I would suggest to the Minister to give serious consideration to install a T- Bar at one of the other resorts. I' m sure he must appreciate that not too long ago that many people thought that our winters were pretty cold and it wasn't fit for recreation, but with opening of ski resorts and the use of snowmobiles we don't feel that the winters are too cold any more.

And there 's more and more people are certainly participating in all kinds of winter recreation, be it skiing, snowshoeing and toboggan ing or snowmobiling. So I hope that the Minister would give consideration to one of those points. The other - there's one more point that I have -- (Interje ction)-- I have one point that I see that was put out in a news services report and that stated that the tourist industry will play a very important role in northern Manitoba.

And I did raise a question to the Minister in respect to any of the native people operating such tourist resorts , and perhaps the Minister can tell us just what the government intends or what facilities they will be developing in the far north. And the other one - has the Minister put anything together in the way of, or a series of package vacation trips for people visiting Manitoba including such things as airfare, and rental of accommodation and places they can go to. Mr.

Chairman, there's another point that has come to my mind and that is many people that visit Winnipeg for at least ·two months , July and August. I would hope that the Minister could give consideration to having such things as arr anging buses to take the tourists , and to have a tour of the city to see the sights or points of interest. I would say that almost every city that's at least half a million people or more, or even smaller cities, during the summer holidays, July and August do this ... MR. CHAIRMAN: Order. The time allotted to the member has expired. . . . . . continued on next page

27 86 June 8, 1972 MR. CHAIRMAN: The Honourable Member for Swan River. MR. BILTON: Mr. Chairman, I only have a brief word. The Minister has outlined an extensive program for his department in this coming year - and from what we have heard today and yesterday, he' s had many su ggestions put his way, and I just have one more. I se e he's in a receptive mood. I notice that press releases out of Ottawa, Mr. Chairman, su ggest that the Federal Governm ent are going to give assistance to provinces , cities and towns to commemorate the 10 0th Anniversary of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police next year.

I'm sure the Minister is aware of it - that the RCMP played a tremendous role in the early history, the opening up of the West - and it may be of interest to him to know that in 1874 the RCMP, or as it was known then, the Northwest Mounted Police, had their headquarters in Swan River and close by Fort Livingston across the border was of course the headquarters of the Nor thwest Co uncil. In fact the Northwest Co uncil held its first meeting in that particular area.

And the Mounted Police Band - they were in Swan River during the visit of Her Majesty, and I think the feeling behind that was that the first band of that Force was established in Swan River in 187 4. I wonder if the Minister would take under advisement the poss ibility of contacting the Pr ovincial Historian who I am sure would search out the detail in co-ope ration with the RCMP headquarters in Ottawa as to the activities of the Force in those days.

I feel it would be a boon to tourist traffic during the oncoming year, and I would ask the Minister if he would take an interest in this particular proj ect and poss ibly give the towns and communities in which the Force played a

part in the early history toward whatever celebrations they may be making, and poss ibly assist in the erection of historical plaques where they ought to be. I believe they are long overdu e; the area from the Hudson Bay down through the northern Manitoba to Swan Lake and up the Swan River, and there' s a portage from the Swan River to the Ass iniboine over which they carried their canoes and portaged down to the sou thern part of the province. The Hudson Bay Comp any of course were proud of that picture, and the Northwest Company.

So in all sincerity, I would ask the Minister to possibly communicate on behalf of the people of Manitoba as to exactly what the Federal Government intends to do toward this cele bration in Manitoba, and possibly from his res earch can put forward some su ggestions that will be well wo rthwhile and well accepted. MR. CH AIRMAN: The Honourable Member for Wellington. MR. PHILIP M. PETU RSSON (Well ington): Mr.

Chairman, I would want to add my re- . marks to the few that have been made by others - and in the first place to congratulate the Minister on his department and on the work that he is doing and will be doing. It is one of the most interesting departments I think of all the portfolios in this government. It will give him an opportunity to se e the people in the province in their lighter, more relaxed moments at work and at play.

It gives him an opportunity to welcome visitors to the province to explore, and also to explore across the length and breadth of the province and to share in the enjoyments and the relaxation of the people in the province. When the Minister pres ented his Estimates, he was in some doubt about what name he would prefer for his department rather than the long name that it has been given, a combination of several.

He didn't know whether it should be called a Department of Tourism, or the Department of Recreation, or the Department of Cu lture, or Cu ltural Affairs or the Depart ment of Leisure - and I'm not going to be able to help him out very much in choosing a name - but I would think that leisure would play a large

part in the operation of his department. It's one of the most important things to know, for people to know what to do with their leisure and how to use their leisure time. And that applies most particularly to the older segment of the population, the old age pensioners and so on, those who have passed the - a little more than passed the age of discretion. And according to some statistics that I believe I have seen, the people who are over that middle age - beyond it- are on the increase, they' re getting to be more and more of them. And then there is the question of early retirement.

If people are faced with early retire ment - whether by request or by compulsion - they will be thrown out into that area in which they have nothing to do and which the regular routine of going to work and coming home follow ing a regular routine is broken. And it is important that people at that time have som ething to do, some thing to think about, som ething in which they are involved, some thing of interest to them that will give them a usef ul and an interesting activity. I have known of people who have fallen into that unfor tunate, unhappy situation of reach ing

June 8, 197 2 278 7 (MR, PE TURSSON cont•d) . retirement and then hot knowing what in the world to do to fill up their time. They have had plans but som ehow these plans have gone awry and they themselves have failed to be able to meet the challenge of inactivity of leisure. One man I knew for instance had worked for the railroad and had followed a regular routine of four days out on the railroad run, and then three days at home - and as he approached the age of retire ment he had made all kinds of plans about what he would do down at his su mmer cottage.

He was no sooner home off the regular run, then he was into his car and down to the cottage, spent the next three days down there and then came back - unwillingly came back to have to go back on the job again. Then he reached retirement and he went down to his cottage, and he spent not three days but three weeks - and then he had to come back to the city.

He went down to the railroad yards to meet some of his old cronies, he came home - he tried it out at the cottage again and it no longer had the same appeal to him that it had had before or that it had seemed to have in his dreams of what he was going to do with his time in retirement. And while he had retired in perfectly good health, within two years he was gone - dead, and we were attending his funeral.

Another man, not a railroader, but another occup ation at which there was pretty much of a routine, coming and going back and forth to work and home again and he also had plans for his retirement and things just did not seem to go as he had hoped for, or expected, and he wound up in the psychiatric ward in one of the hospitals. And this probably is the story of many.

Not long ago right here in Winnipeg there was a story of a man who had died in his room completely alone and nobody seemed to have missed him, or have been interested in him, until some inquiries were made and it was found out that he in effect was completely friendless; he had nothing to do, nothing to fill up his time with and --( Interjection)-- Is that right? It seemed to me that it's a great pity in our community that anything of that sort should happen where a man can live his life, do his work and retire, and then die apparently without any friends, any interests in life.

This is one area in this department that hopefully could be developed for the benefit of the general population and Pm not only thinking of myself and Russ Paulley, the Honourable Minister of Labour --(I nterj ection)-- but some others who are coming along the same as we are and will eventually --(I nterjection)-- moving along -- and eventually going out. But before we go out I hope that we have a few moments of leisure time in which to enjoy one another and our friends and some interests and activities in life. Now Manitoba is a tourist province.

I don't know that there are many places that can be more attractive as far as tourists are concerned than Manitoba. We have historic sites and we have mus eums, and according to a poll that was taken at one time, a year, two years, three years ago, among tourists the two things that were highest on the list as being attractive to them were museums and historic sites, and for the benefit of our Attorney-General I'm sure that many tourists would be interested in the museum out in Ass iniboia. I haven' t seen it my self .

I hope someday he may take me on a conducted tour so that --(I nterj ection)-·- they call it a museum, it's a large open field, I understand. --(I nterjection)-- Do you want to expand? Some time later on I think the Attorney-Gene

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	29-4-108
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	29th 4th hansardpdf 108.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
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