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October 25, 2005

38th Parliament, 2nd Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcripts 2005-Oct-25 (PDF)

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Tuesday 25 October 2005 Mardi 25 octobre 2005

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

VERNON WHITE

MCMASTER UNIVERSITY

WATER QUALITY

ARIE NERMAN

PUBLIC LIBRARIES

HEALTH CARE

VICTIMS OF CRIME

HOSPICE CARE

HIGHWAY IMPROVEMENT

VISITORS

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

PROVINCIAL PARKS AND CONSERVATION RESERVES ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LES PARCS PROVINCIAUX ET LES RÉSERVES

DE CONSERVATION

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

PROTECTION OF RESOURCES

CRIME PREVENTION /

PRÉVENTION DE LA CRIMINALITÉ

HYDRO GENERATION

PROTECTION OF RESOURCES

CRIME PREVENTION

HYDRO GENERATION

CRIME PREVENTION

HYDRO GENERATION

VISITORS

ROSA PARKS

ORAL QUESTIONS

CRIME PREVENTION

HOSPITAL FUNDING

PUBLIC HEALTH

WATER QUALITY

TEACHER TRAINING

TOBACCO INDUSTRY

JUSTICES OF THE PEACE

HEALTH CARE

PROPERTY TAXATION

LEGAL AID

ONTARIO MUNICIPAL BOARD

CRIME PREVENTION

TENANT PROTECTION

PETITIONS

CANCER TREATMENT

MACULAR DEGENERATION

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS

LESLIE M. FROST CENTRE

MACULAR DEGENERATION

HIGHWAY 35

SKILLS TRAINING

VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS

ORDERS OF THE DAY

BUDGET MEASURES ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005

SUR LES MESURES BUDGÉTAIRES

The House met at 1330.

Prayers.

MEMBERS' STATEMENTS

VERNON WHITE

Mr. John O'Toole (Durham): I'm very pleased to rise in this House today to recognize Vernon White, the new chief for the Durham Regional Police

Service. He succeeds Kevin McAlpine, who has retired after 33 years of distinguished service in policing. Chief White comes to Durham region after a 24-year distinguished career with the Royal

Canadian Mounted Police. He has served as assistant commissioner of National Police Services in Ottawa. I look forward to co-hosting a town hall to welcome the new chief to Scugog on Monday,

November 7.

I was pleased to join our new chief and many other distinguished guests for the Durham Regional Police Association dinner and awards banquet held October 20. I

joined our new Chief White as well as retired Chief McAlpine in recognizing those honoured with police recognition awards. These included Sergeant Pat Davidson, Constables Dave Redwood, Glen

Turpin, Darryl Rice, Todd Gribbons, Ryan Huxter, Leon Presner, Catherine Cornes and Rui Ferreira, as well as civilian staff member Samantha Cutajar.

I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome Chief Vernon White to his new post and to pay tribute to those honoured at last week's recognition ceremony. These

brave men and women put themselves in danger to serve and protect each of us. Let's keep that in mind as we recognize the services that police contribute to our community.

MCMASTER UNIVERSITY

Ms. Judy Marsales (Hamilton West): I have frequently spoken to the leadership and innovation which is exemplified by McMaster University, but I

rise today to acknowledge McMaster's celebrating the men, women and corporations who have helped Mac along the way.

We hear today of the issue of donor fatigue. Sometimes a thank you goes a long way, and McMaster recently did just that as they celebrated the 25th anniversary

of the president's club, which is the equivalent of a large public thank you: a public acknowledgement of those who go above and beyond by helping us build a better McMaster to build a better

community.

On Sunday, October 2, I had the pleasure of attending McMaster University's President's Club annual reception. Members joined together to commemorate this event

at the Donaldson Family Marketplace in the heart of the McMaster student centre. The president's club was established in 1980 with the purpose of encouraging and recognizing extraordinary

contributions from alumni, faculty, staff, parents and friends of McMaster. Its membership has now grown to 1,400. It is the generosity of these members that has helped to make McMaster University

the state-of-the-art institution it is today.

The president's club is part of the proud tradition of leadership and philanthropy at McMaster University, and I congratulate its members for their commitment to

one of Canada's premier universities. Earlier this year, it received the largest gift in Canadian history, of $105 million from Michael G. DeGroote and family. More recently, we received another

large gift, a $10-million contribution from Tim Hortons founder Ron Joyce, which will go toward the construction of a brand new stadium.

Hats off to McMaster.

WATER QUALITY

Mr. Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): I rise today to share my thoughts about the terrible conditions facing the First Nation community of

Kashechewan. It is unimaginable that in this country where we are privileged to have an abundant supply of fresh water, communities could live with water that is so contaminated. It is even more

distressing to me that both the province and the federal government had identified problems with the drinking water systems in this community, and neither took action.

First Nation communities are continually falling through the cracks. My own experience with the provincial government is that they do not recognize these

communities as municipalities. In fact, they do not recognize these communities at all.

Certainly the federal government has a responsibility to First Nations to act responsibly and to ensure the most basic of necessities are provided for its

citizens. Currently over 100 First Nation communities across Canada must boil their drinking water, and over half are located in rural and remote locations in Ontario. As a country that prides

itself on the aid it sends around the world, it is unconscionable that this situation could happen in our own country.

As members of provincial Parliament, it is incumbent that we be activists for the communities we represent. I call on the province to show leadership on this

issue and to provide both technical support and assistance to the community of Kashechewan.

ARIE NERMAN

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): Today I rise to pay tribute to a gentleman in our community by the name of Arie Nerman. Arie Nerman has

been a 30-year resident of the Beach and was this year honoured as the Beaches-East York Citizen of the Year.

He is known around the Beach community for his many good works, but I think of particular importance to our community is that he arrived in the Beach some 30

years ago. He was, as he describes it himself, a non-observant Jew. He lived there for about two years, only to discover that there was a synagogue two streets away from him that he wasn't even

aware of. He went there and it was not functioning. He helped to rebuild it. They were having problems getting the 10 men present to have a minian and could not do it, but he has rebuilt it so that

today there are 250 members of the synagogue and it has become, really, a Beach institution. They minister not only to the congregation but to the wider community. Mr. Nerman is active in the

interfaith lunch program feeding the hungry. He does historical walks in our community. He is at the annual Remembrance Day service and at the 9/11 ceremony in the Beach, and he gives talks on

anti-racism and anti-Semitism.

He is truly a fitting representative for the Beach. We are so very proud of the work he has done and so very proud of his being one of our neighbours and this

year's recipient of the Beaches-East York Citizen of the Year.

PUBLIC LIBRARIES

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): The week of October 17 celebrated the libraries of this province and the great services they

and the people who work in them provide to the people of Ontario.

It was also a special cause for celebration in the city of Cornwall in my riding of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh. It was during that week that the people of

Cornwall celebrated the 110th anniversary of their public library. Officially born on October 7, 1895, this library has been a pillar of the Cornwall community for its entire life and will

undoubtedly continue to play that role for generations to come.

It has evolved from a small, quiet facility to a thriving centre of the community in the heart of the city, downtown Cornwall. Parents have introduced their

children to the enriching world of literature, science and history in the hallowed halls of the library, probably unaware of the historical figures who had visited before them.

Nobel Prize winner and former Prime Minister of Canada Lester B. Pearson once visited the Cornwall library, having been there in 1967 for the opening at one of

its previous locations, as was Angus Mowat, father of our great Canadian author Farley Mowat.

The Cornwall library is truly at the heart of the community and in the heart of its citizens. It gives me great pleasure to acknowledge the library, in the city

of Cornwall and throughout my constituency, and all those who work hard to make it what it is -- the staff, the board and especially the "friends of the library" volunteers. Their contributions

have made a difference in enriching the cultural heritage of the city.

HEALTH CARE

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): Today I rise to update members of the Legislature on the negative outcome for patients of the

McGuinty Liberals' decision to shut down the independent Ontario joint replacement registry, the OJRR, and transfer it to the Canadian joint replacement registry, the CJRR. This registry collected

wait times data on hip and knee arthroplasties. This decision was accompanied by a promise from the minister in this House on June 8 that "important quality data are not lost." This data helped to

reduce the need for redo surgeries, which take longer to recover from and are more invasive and costly.

On October 1 of this year, the OJRR was shut down by the McGuinty Liberals and the collection of data was supposedly transferred to the CJRR. Guess what? As of

October 24, not a single surgical case had been submitted to the CJRR. This is contrary to Minister Smitherman's commitment that "We will make sure that the value of the data they collect continues

to be made available to the Ontario health care system."

If the McGuinty Liberal government has broken its promise to make this data available, how can anyone believe that they will reduce wait times? In reality, we

know the opposite is true. Wait times have increased by 5.5 days this year. People continue to pay more health tax but get less in the way of quality care.

VICTIMS OF CRIME

Mr. Mario G. Racco (Thornhill): Last week, I had the pleasure of informing recipients of the community grants program that their application had

been approved. PFLAG Canada, York region, based out of my riding of Thornhill, will receive $45,000 to organize a billboard campaign and develop a support group to raise awareness of hate crimes.

Family services, York region, will receive $50,000 to increase community awareness of domestic violence issues in York region's South Asian community.

Our government is investing $3.1 million to provide funding for 71 projects across Ontario. By investing in community projects to improve services for victims of

crime, we are working toward stronger and safer communities.

These grants were awarded to the most promising local projects that assist victims of domestic violence, sexual assault, hate crimes, child victims of sexual

abuse and exploitation, as well as underserved and unserved victims. Funds are provided through the victims' justice fund. Money for the fund is collected through a provincial victim surcharge,

which is applied to all fines under the Provincial Offences Act. Federal fine surcharge revenues are also collected for this fund. Money collected through the victim fine surcharge is dedicated to

providing services for victims. It is these programs that will make our communities of Thornhill and Concord in Ontario more understanding and complete communities.

Thank you, Ontario.

HOSPICE CARE

Mrs. Liz Sandals (Guelph-Wellington): I was pleased to attend the 25th anniversary celebration of Hospice Wellington on Friday.

Hospice Wellington has developed excellent community-based programs to provide patients and their families with support as they pass through diagnosis,

end-of-life care and grieving. They were thrilled by Minister Smitherman's recent announcement that they will receive an additional $49,600 each year, an increase of 16%, to support their community

work.

But for 25 years, Hospice Wellington has had a dream of providing residential hospice care. This summer, they purchased a church to renovate for hospice beds.

They were ecstatic when our government announced that in 2007, Hospice Wellington will be eligible for operating funding for their 10 new beds, right on

schedule with the completion of

renovations.

Our government is expanding end-of-life services that offer care, compassion and dignity to those who are in the last stages of their lives, while providing

needed support to their families. This investment means there will be more choices available for people on how they can live out their remaining days.

I applaud the Premier and the Minister of Health for taking the initiative to expand Hospice Wellington, an important community-based health care service.

HIGHWAY IMPROVEMENT

Mr. Michael Gravelle (Thunder Bay-Superior North): For many years, I have been clamouring on behalf of my constituents for much-needed

improvements to the highway infrastructure in my riding, so it is with some satisfaction that I note the major project this past summer that has rehabilitated Highway 11/17 between Spruce River

Road and the McKenzie Inn. I'm also pleased that more improvements are on the way. In fact, today we are announcing recommended improvements between East Loon Lake Road and Pearl that will add to

the safety of this stretch of the highway.

As much as this is appreciated, I would be letting my constituents down, however, if I did not renew my campaign for other pressing highway needs in my riding.

Rehabilitation of the stretch between Thunder Bay and Nipigon is vital -- there is no question about that -- but that does not lessen the need for a four-lane highway to bring northwestern Ontario

into the 21st century. As I renew my efforts to have this project revived, I call on the minister to do the same.

On a smaller but no less important scale, a full rehabilitation of Highway 584 between Geraldton and Nakina is long overdue. This is a highway at the end of its

life, and my constituents deserve a safe roadway to drive on once again.

Last but not least, I call on the ministry to approve more advance warning lights on the Thunder Bay Expressway. These lights are an inexpensive way to save

lives, and I call on the minister once again to recognize their enormous value and approve their future installation sooner rather than later.

This is certainly not the first time that my constituents and my colleagues have heard me speak about --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

Interjection.

The Speaker: Thank you. When I'm up, you're down.

VISITORS

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): I would like to bring members' attention to our guest in the members' east gallery, the Honourable Lyn

McLeod, who was the MPP for Thunder Bay-Atikokan and Fort William in the 34th through 37th Parliaments.

Hon. Jim Watson (Minister of Health Promotion): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: Also in the gallery is a great friend from Ottawa, Patrick

Casey. Welcome him to the Legislature -- his first visit to the Legislature.

Mr. Tony C. Wong (Markham): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I want to welcome a group of brilliant grade 5 students from E. T. Crowle Public

School in my riding, led by their teacher Beverly Hilton and Aldo, a former classmate of Minister David Caplan. I want to welcome them in the west gallery.

INTRODUCTION OF BILLS

PROVINCIAL PARKS AND CONSERVATION RESERVES ACT, 2005 /

LOI DE 2005 SUR LES PARCS PROVINCIAUX ET LES RÉSERVES

DE CONSERVATION

Mr. Ramsay moved first reading of the following bill:

Bill 11,

An Act to enact the Provincial Parks and Conservation Reserves Act, repeal the Provincial Parks Act and the Wilderness Areas Act and make complementary

amendments to other Acts / Projet de loi 11, Loi édictant la

Loi sur les parcs provinciaux et les réserves de conservation, abrogeant la

Loi sur les parcs provinciaux et la

Loi sur

la protection des régions sauvages et apportant des modifications complémentaires à d'autres lois.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Minister, do you have a brief statement?

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs): I will refer my remarks to ministerial statement

time.

MOTIONS

HOUSE SITTINGS

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): I have a motion for us today. That

motion is that pursuant to standing order 9(c)(i), the House shall meet from 6:45 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. on Tuesday, October 25, 2005, for the purpose of considering government business.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Mr. Bradley has moved government notice of motion 9. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion

carry?

All in favour will say "aye."

All opposed will say "nay."

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

Call in the members. This will be a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1351 to 1356.

The Speaker: All those in favour will please stand one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Arthurs, Wayne

Baird, John R.

Barrett, Toby

Bartolucci, Rick

Bentley, Christopher

Berardinetti, Lorenzo

Bountrogianni, Marie

Bradley, James J.

Brownell, Jim

Bryant, Michael

Cansfield, Donna H.

Caplan, David

Chambers, Mary Anne V.

Colle, Mike

Crozier, Bruce

Delaney, Bob

Dhillon, Vic

Di Cocco, Caroline

Dombrowsky, Leona

Duguid, Brad

Duncan, Dwight

Dunlop, Garfield

Flynn, Kevin Daniel

Fonseca, Peter

Gerretsen, John

Gravelle, Michael

Hardeman, Ernie

Hoy, Pat

Jeffrey, Linda

Klees, Frank

Kular, Kuldip

Kwinter, Monte

Lalonde, Jean-Marc

Leal, Jeff

Levac, Dave

Marsales, Judy

Martiniuk, Gerry

Matthews, Deborah

Mauro, Bill

McMeekin, Ted

McNeely, Phil

Meilleur, Madeleine

Miller, Norm

Milloy, John

Mitchell, Carol

Mossop, Jennifer F.

Munro, Julia

Parsons, Ernie

Peters, Steve

Peterson, Tim

Phillips, Gerry

Qaadri, Shafiq

Racco, Mario G.

Ramal, Khalil

Ramsay, David

Rinaldi, Lou

Runciman, Robert W.

Ruprecht, Tony

Sandals, Liz

Scott, Laurie

Smith, Monique

Smitherman, George

Sorbara, Gregory S.

Takhar, Harinder S.

Tascona, Joseph N.

Van Bommel, Maria

Watson, Jim

Wilkinson, John

Wilson, Jim

Witmer, Elizabeth

Wong, Tony C.

Wynne, Kathleen O.

Zimmer, David

The Speaker: All those against will please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Bisson, Gilles

Chudleigh, Ted

Churley, Marilyn

Horwath, Andrea

Kormos, Peter

Marchese, Rosario

Martel, Shelley

Murdoch, Bill

Prue, Michael

Yakabuski, John

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Claude L. DesRosiers): The ayes are 73; the nays are 10.

The Speaker: I declare the motion carried.

STATEMENTS BY THE MINISTRY AND RESPONSES

PROTECTION OF RESOURCES

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs ): I'm very pleased to rise in the House today to

introduce the Provincial Parks and Conservation Reserves Act.

Last September, we launched a major review of the province's parks legislation, the first in 50 years. The last time the Provincial Parks Act was reviewed,

there were only eight provincial parks. Times have certainly changed, and so has our parks system. We now have 319 provincial parks, as well as 280 conservation reserves and 10 wilderness areas.

Today we have a world-class system that provides places for people to enjoy the outdoors, and more than 10 million visits are made each year to Ontario parks.

As a society, we also appreciate how important protected areas are to the health, vitality and economic prosperity of Ontario. We have a better idea of what we

should be protecting and how we should be going about it.

Given all that has changed, a thorough review was long overdue. As part of the review, we outlined eight legislative proposals and carried out far-reaching

consultation on those proposals. We held nine open houses across the province. We collected more than 1,500 responses to an on-line survey. Also, 141 written submissions were received from

aboriginal organizations, provincial stakeholders and other interested groups and individuals. Over 1,100 letters and faxes came in from a range of interests. I want to publicly thank all of those

who shared their thoughts and advice with us. The members may be interested to know that 75% of the responses supported the proposals that we put forward. We also benefited from thoughtful

recommendations from the Ontario Parks board of directors.

The new Provincial Parks and Conservation Reserves Act I'm introducing today is a response to the need for updated legislation, and, if passed, would help

guide the course of our protected areas through the 21st century. I'd like to share some of the highlights with the members.

For the first time, the new act would make ecological integrity a first priority when planning and managing within parks and conservation reserves. It is

important to protect these special places and to keep them healthy for future generations. Strengthening ecological integrity is a key part of the initiative and is in keeping with the goals and

objectives of Ontario's biodiversity strategy. It also complements our natural spaces program, the Greenbelt Act and the government's focus on a healthier environment for all Ontarians.

Under the legislation, we are proposing enhancements to accountability and transparency. From now on, the minister would be required to publicly report every

five years on the health of our parks and protected areas. That way, people will know how we are doing on achieving our goals and objectives related to conditions in our parks and reserves,

ecological representation and a range of other indicators.

The proposed legislation would legislate current planning and management policies and require management plans for all areas, with opportunities for public

consultation before they are finalized.

For the first time, the proposed legislation would consolidate existing acts dealing with protected areas. Right now, parks come under the Provincial Parks

Act, while conservation reserves are regulated under the Public Lands Act and wilderness areas are covered by the Wilderness Areas Act of 1959. That would all change under this new act. We would

have one act for all of the components of the protected area system, and it would cover both parks and conservation reserves and recognize the key differences between them.

As recommended by the parks board, we will be reviewing the 10 wilderness areas, which cover about 900 hectares, to decide if they should become provincial

parks, conservation reserves or be returned to crown land status. Once that initiative is complete, it is our intention to proclaim the repeal of the Wilderness Areas Act, and of course we will

consult before making any final decisions in this regard. The old parks act did not provide a lot of guidance and planning for parks or how they should be managed, so our proposed legislation would

remedy that by guiding how protected areas are both planned and managed. These requirements would be outlined in law, not just in policies or regulations.

We will also begin development of a non-legislative policy to ensure that activities on crown land adjacent to parks and conservation reserves do not affect

their ecological integrity. The policy would continue to support and promote sustainable resource and community development and would be subject to consultation.

There is public support for this legislation. This act, if passed, would help strengthen the perimeter protection and ecological integrity of Ontario's

provincial parks and conservation reserves. This is all part of our commitment to build a stronger, healthier and more vital Ontario.

CRIME PREVENTION /

PRÉVENTION DE LA CRIMINALITÉ

Hon. Michael Bryant (Attorney General): I am proud to tell members of this House that today we are escalating and intensifying our efforts in

our ongoing fight against gun violence in Ontario. Today we are dramatically increasing our arsenal of justice, with more police and more prosecutors to fight gangs, to fight gang crime and to

fight gun violence.

Cette augmentation du nombre de policiers et d'avocats de la Couronne responsables de la lutte contre les bandes criminalisées et les armes à feu est

la plus importante qui soit dans l'histoire de notre province.

This represents the most dramatic increase in police and crown participation in the anti-guns and anti-gang task force that this province has ever seen. Today

we announced the expansion of the Anti-Guns and Gangs Task Force. It is immediate and it is significant. It will mean an additional 26 experienced police officers added to the Anti-Guns and Gangs

Task Force. It is immediate and will serve as a bridge as Toronto and the province bring on-line 1,000 new police officers under the leadership of Minister Kwinter and our Premier.

We will also be adding 32 additional seasoned prosecutors, who will be dedicated to working with the police on this specialized task force. These experienced

crowns will prosecute existing guns and gangs cases. They will support police in the investigation of gun- and gang-related crime and the laying and prosecution of new gun and gang charges. The

crown prosecutors have developed and continue to develop sentencing evidence in order to seek the most exemplary sentences within the law.

The federal government has also recently confirmed that they are in discussions with our office to expand the jurisdiction of the guns and gangs task force so

that we can get that federal presence we need so that we can also include drug crimes in the jurisdiction, which is obviously a significant part of gang and gun violence.

Many of you will know that these police officers and crowns on the task force work together from day one of the investigation. The prosecutors provide early

advice to the police, especially on search warrants, or on other issues arising out of an investigation. They will also, where appropriate, provide legal authorization for the police to conduct

wiretaps. After charges are laid by the police, the prosecutors prepare and conduct the prosecutions. These cases can be complex and involve multiple defendants.

Joining police and crowns together to coordinate our efforts on behalf of our justice system is a concept that this government began in January 2004, a few

months after taking office. It's thanks to innovative police officers and prosecutors that it happened. We know this pioneering approach works because it has achieved results. The work of the guns

and gangs task force has already led to large-scale gang takedowns, which resulted in dozens of arrests, hundreds of charges, and the seizure of many firearms that were previously being used on our

streets.

I want to take a moment to thank all of the prosecutors and police officers, those working on the Anti-Guns and Gangs Task Force and those working in every

corner of this province, serving, protecting, preventing, and leading our community. They are the very vanguard of a civil society, and we all in this House thank them all for the job they do.

Thanks also for the leadership of Chief Bill Blair and for the hard work and great work by our Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services.

While I have a moment, I want to update the House on two other aspects of our comprehensive gun strategy.

Firstly, we're providing additional enhanced services to support gun crime victims and witnesses involved in these large and lengthy gun crime prosecutions. We

are doing what is necessary to ensure victims have the information, assistance and support they need throughout the ordeal they are going through.

Secondly, I want to tell the members that our blitz of gun businesses is now complete. The chief firearms office has completed blitz inspections of all

gun-licensed businesses in Toronto. It took place between September 19 and 23. This was done to ensure that gun storage and safekeeping standards were being met. The chief firearms officer has told

me that he is now incorporating unannounced inspections of gun-licensed businesses around the province into his regular procedures; previously, those had been scheduled in advance.

We are engaging gun violence on the terrain of results. Success is measured in increments, but success is being attained. One illegal gun -- just one -- can

exert a terrible toll in terms of human misery. Just one gun off our streets: one life saved, one family preserved; even one is worth all our efforts.

While continuing to build on enforcement initiatives, we will move forward in other ways. Premier McGuinty has already met representatives of the Coalition of

African Canadian Organizations. The Premier and my cabinet colleague Minister Mary Anne Chambers have worked and will continue to work with them, in particular to find even more ways to assist

at-risk youth.

I pledge to keep the House and the public updated in the days and weeks to come.

HYDRO GENERATION

Hon. Donna H. Cansfield (Minister of Energy): I rise today to advise members of an important step our government has taken to recognize and

encourage those electricity consumers who can generate their own power from renewable resources.

We've put in place a new regulation that ensures that all Ontarians will have access to net metering. Net metering allows a customer who generates their own

power from a renewable source to connect their generation system to the electricity grid and receive a credit for the value of any excess electricity they export to it. Net metering is now

available to any consumer who can generate a portion of their electricity needs through wind, water, solar or agricultural biomass. A homeowner with solar panels will benefit; a farmer who can use

agricultural waste to generate electricity will benefit; and a small business with a small wind turbine on the property will benefit. As they say, we will all benefit from the use of cleaner

power.

This is another step forward, or perhaps more accurately, it is a way of encouraging many small steps forward by many Ontarians as we move ahead together in

bringing a new culture of conservation to Ontario.

Net metering is an important part of our commitment to renewable energy. Our goal is to build an energy system that will serve our children and our

grandchildren, an energy system that is safe, clean, reliable and affordable -- energy that is sustainable into the future.

In the past, net metering was only available at the discretion of local energy distribution companies, and projects were usually limited to 50 kilowatts. Many

Ontarians just did not have the opportunity to connect their own plans to generate electricity with the availability and security of power available through Ontario's electricity grid. And where

net metering was possible, the permitted projects were limited in size, effectively shutting out some projects that could help make a difference. This new regulation ensures that all consumers have

equal access to net metering. It requires distributors to permit net metering for eligible projects up to 500 kilowatts.

Being able to interconnect to the grid and to receive credit for excess power are real advantages for consumers, and it is high time they were available

throughout this province. Consumers can save any excess production by exporting it right to the grid for credit and draw on this credit to offset charges when their system can't supply their needs.

This means many more customers will be able to consider installing their own generation, secure in the knowledge that they can get full benefit from the power it provides.

While other jurisdictions in North America have allowed for net metering, I am proud this government is going further than others. For example, by allowing

systems up to 500 kilowatts, our net metering program sets the stage for farmers to offset a substantial portion of their electricity purchases through the use of farm biomass. This renewable

energy benefits both farmers and our province. Agricultural biomass is a renewable energy source. Maximizing renewable energy supports our strategy to replace coal-fired generation with cleaner

sources of energy, and will help us to meet our target of providing 5% of electricity from renewable resources by 2007 and 10% by 2010.

Net metering is just one of a number of initiatives this government is taking to meet our renewable energy targets. We recognize that good ideas in electricity

supply come in all shapes and all sizes. Our government is also moving ahead to develop a standard offer approach for smaller community and commercial projects to produce power and receive payment

to cover their investments.

In fact, last August my predecessor, Minister Duncan, wrote to the Ontario Power Authority and the Ontario Energy Board, and asked that they present an

approach for a standard offer for smaller generators with implementation guidelines by the end of this year. A standard offer will create the opportunity for small community-based renewable energy

projects -- opportunities for businesses, rural land owners and farmers to set up renewable energy systems that can sell clean power back to the grid.

We have successfully undertaken three requests for proposals, which have attracted interest and investment from projects of all sizes, including wind, small

hydro and landfill gas. New wind farms are going up near Sault Ste. Marie in the north, on the shores of Lake Huron and in central Ontario. Other wind projects are in various stages of development

right around this province. Small-scale hydro projects in both eastern Ontario and the north are proceeding and our government is taking steps to encourage renewable energy projects on crown

lands.

I can't stress how important conservation is in both reducing consumer energy costs and in ensuring that we have a sustainable energy system in Ontario. This

government is committed to creating a culture of conservation in this province. We recognize the important role each of us has to play in Ontario, and what we can do to reduce our energy use and

our energy footprint. By supporting net metering, we're taking one further step in building this culture of conservation in Ontario and ensuring a more sustainable future. My ministry will soon be

distributing information to help consumers move toward net metering, and information will shortly be available on the Ministry of Energy Web site.

Net metering is an important part of our plan to transform Ontario's energy system. Our plan consists of building new generation capacity, maximizing our

existing generation and transmission assets and creating a culture of conservation. Net metering provides an opportunity for individuals to contribute directly to building new generation capacity.

Net metering puts generation near customers, taking full advantage of our existing distribution and transmission assets. Perhaps most importantly, net metering is a step in helping to build this

conservation culture. It gives people a tool they can use to minimize their footprints, as I said, on our environment by creating some of their own energy through renewable resources like water,

wind, solar and biomass.

I want to encourage members of this House and the people of Ontario to consider opportunities in their communities, in their own backyards, for renewable

energy. It's good for customers, it's good for the province and it's good for our global environment. The net metering regulation I have announced today will make it easier for each and every one

of us to play our

part in creating this culture.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Response?

PROTECTION OF RESOURCES

Mr. Norm Miller (Parry Sound-Muskoka): It's my pleasure to respond to the Minister of Natural Resources. I went down to his news conference in

the media room and it reminded me of paddling around Lady Evelyn-Smoothwater park this summer, with a nice backdrop of a canoe. I spoke with Ontario Parks people, who reminded me that my father sat

as a volunteer on the parks board for a number of years.

Parks are important to all Ontarians. May I remind this House, as the minister said, that there has been a huge increase in the number of parks. There were

only eight provincial parks 50 years ago, and now we have 319 provincial parks, 280 conservation areas and 10 wilderness areas. Who was the world-famous environmentalist who brought about all of

these new parks through the Ontario Living Legacy, might I ask? The answer to that question is Mike Harris. Mike Harris added eight million acres to Ontario's park system, an area the size of Lake

Ontario. It's something he doesn't get much credit for, I might add.

I was pleased to see in the minister's announcement that he recognized that logging has been going on in Algonquin Park since before the park was created, and

that activity will be allowed to continue in Algonquin Provincial Park. I would say that for the people in Parry Sound-Muskoka and Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke, that is very important.

I hope when you consolidate the Provincial Parks and Conservation Reserves Act, it means you simplify it. I'll look forward to reviewing the detail in the

bill, because the devil is in the detail.

CRIME PREVENTION

Mr. Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): In response to the Attorney General's statement, we're becoming accustomed to grandstanding, empty

rhetoric and hollow promises from this Attorney General. We know the Attorney General spent the past summer working on his tan while Toronto was enduring unprecedented gun violence. We know that

over two-plus years in office, this government has promised and re-promised 1,000 new police officers, yet today there is not one new officer on the beat in this province.

We know that over a year ago the Attorney General made a big show, which is his wont, announcing $5 million from the victims' justice fund to fight child

pornography. Would you be surprised to know that not one dollar has flowed to the Toronto Police Service from that promise made over one year ago? We know that you have a $40-million surplus in the

victims' justice fund, but you don't offer to cover the expenses of Karla Homolka's victims to attend her appeal hearing. We know that you want to cut over $300 million out of the justice

ministries' budget, starting with the transfer of parole board responsibilities to a federal system with a horrendous record of protecting public safety. We know, and people who pay attention know,

that the McGuinty government is quite prepared to gut the justice ministries, empty the jails, promote pre-charge diversion and dismantle the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board.

Your commitment to public safety is a phony front, driven by public opinion polls. Your secret plans to gut the justice ministries tell the real story. Instead

of false crowing and backslapping, you should be apologizing to the people of Ontario for your real backroom plans to dismantle programs, policies and long-standing initiatives that have had

significant benefits for victims of crime and for enhanced public safety across our province.

HYDRO GENERATION

Mr. John Yakabuski (Renfrew-Nipissing-Pembroke): Today was net metering, volume four. This was the fourth time that this government has talked

about net metering in this House since April 2004. They take an announcement and they reannounce it, and today they have reannounced it again.

What people in Ontario are worried about is whether or not they're going to have a reliable, affordable source of energy in 2007 when this government completes

its ill-conceived agenda. Businesses are asking, "Can we continue to build, establish and remain here in Ontario under this government's energy policy?" Today we've heard nothing that would give

them any comfort that there is going to be a positive move in that direction.

They keep talking about green power, but their goal is 5% by 2007. Five per cent is not going to deal with the gap that this government has created. The people

of Ontario want to know, where is the power? We need to know that by 2007 the lights will remain on in this province, because your government's policy, as it is currently being disseminated, will

ensure that the lights go out.

CRIME PREVENTION

Ms. Marilyn Churley (Toronto-Danforth): We heard some tough words from the Attorney General today, but those words have not been backed up by

tough action. What did we get today? Reassignment from existing forces in the GTA; no new officers and no new resources, except for what he calls bridge funding; just a shifting of the chairs on

the deck once again. Those additional 26 senior police officers added to the guns and gangs task force are being taken from somewhere else, and for those 1,000 new cops on the street, cash-strapped

municipalities have to pay two thirds of the costs, which they can't afford. The reality is that the number of police officers in Ontario declined last year and there is no real plan to get them on

the street.

The McGuinty government has been missing in action on this file when it comes to community investment too. We need to see some real action on preventing gun

violence and keeping kids in school and off the streets. The youth unemployment rate has ballooned, rising last year to a 10-year high of 17%, and for black kids, kids of colour, it is even

higher.

Toronto's youth need jobs, recreational activity and education opportunities -- no real announcement on that. Toronto's communities need enforcement and

protection. The McGuinty government needs a comprehensive strategy to help our neighbourhoods and our youth through a combination of tougher law enforcement and increased investment in our social

infrastructure. Sadly, we're getting too little of both too late. We want to see a real action plan that's going to make the difference.

HYDRO GENERATION

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): To respond to the Minister of Energy: yet again, another press release; yet again, no policy.

The government believes that if they say terms like "wind energy" or "wind turbines" five or six times, this will suddenly, magically create wind turbines.

They believe that if they say "net metering" five or six times, suddenly we'll have effective net metering. What I was hoping to find today was a strategy by the government wherein farmers who want

to generate their own electricity would have access to the capital funding to be able to set up an operation, where somebody who believes they can generate wind energy would have access to the

capital financing to be able to do just that, and where people who live in an urban area who want to put solar panels on their roof and reduce their consumption of electricity in that way would

have the capital funding to be able to do that.

Merely announcing once again that the government someday, perhaps, possibly, maybe, might like to see net metering isn't going to make it happen. What we need

are, first of all, the low-interest loans so that farmers can do this and so that people who live in an urban area in an apartment building can afford to do this. Was this contained in today's

announcement? No. Yet another empty announcement by the McGuinty government that doesn't have an electricity plan, and because it doesn't have an electricity plan, it resorts to making these

repetitive announcements that don't amount to one kilowatt of electricity when all is said and done.

I want to point out to this government that just on wind energy, for example, you have held a dozen announcements, while Quebec is building 3,000 megawatts of

wind capacity. You've held repeated announcements, while small provinces like Manitoba are going to surpass Ontario in terms of wind energy. You've held repeated announcements about a culture of

conservation, when someone living in Quebec can access a low-interest loan to reinsulate their home, to install high-efficiency natural gas heat, to put in triple-pane windows. Someone in Manitoba

can do the same. By doing that, they can reduce their use of electricity by 35%.

What do we have in Ontario under the McGuinty government? More announcements -- announcement, announcement, announcement, empty press release, empty press

release, empty press release. When are we going to see an energy efficiency strategy? Five days before the next election? Is that when you're going to try to impress people? No efficiency strategy

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

VISITORS

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker: I know it's not a point of order, but I have in the audience today

Wayne Roberts and Lori Stahlbrand, who are the parents of Anika Roberts, one of our very own pages. She's there sitting right beside you, and we're very proud to have them in the Legislature.

ROSA PARKS

Hon. James J. Bradley (Minister of Tourism, minister responsible for seniors, Government House Leader): I believe we have unanimous consent

for all parties to speak for up to five minutes to recognize the passing of civil rights leader Ms. Rosa Parks.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Mr. Bradley has asked for unanimous consent for all parties to speak for up to five minutes on the

passing of civil rights leader Rosa Parks. Agreed? Agreed.

Hon. Sandra Pupatello (Minister of Community and Social Services, minister responsible for women's issues): I rise to ask the House to join me

in marking the passing of a significant figure in the civil rights movement and the advancement of women's rights in North America, Rosa Parks.

Rosa Parks was the black woman who refused to give up her seat on the bus to a white man in Montgomery, Alabama, one evening in December 1955. That act of

defiance was the spark that ignited the civil rights movement. Rosa Parks showed that women can lead the way, even when faced with the most daunting obstacles. Indeed, simply by sitting down, Rosa

Parks forced the nation to stand up and face the conflict between its principles and its actions.

"You died a little each time you found yourself face to face with this kind of discrimination," Rosa Parks later said of her refusal to give in.

Her arrest led to a 381-day boycott of the bus system organized by, at the time, an obscure Baptist minister named Martin Luther King Jr. For her

part in the

civil rights movement, Ms. Parks became known as the mother of the civil rights movement.

The days of Jim Crow and legally backed job discrimination now seem a long way off, but this is a journey that has been made in a single lifetime and a march

that was launched by the determination of a single individual.

In 1957, Rosa Parks moved to Detroit, where she worked in the office of US Representative John Conyers for more than 20 years and remained active in the civil

rights cause. Conyers recalls her humility, despite the enormous impact she had. She wasn't very interested in people trying to explain Rosa Parks, or teach about Rosa Parks. Instead, "She wanted

them to understand the government and to understand their rights and the Constitution that people are still trying to perfect today."

Over the years, she deservedly received many awards: the US Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Congressional Gold Medal. Time magazine named her one of the

country's 100 most influential people in the 20th century.

I understand that when Ms. Parks passed away yesterday at the age of 92, she was at home in her apartment overlooking the Detroit River and the Ontario border.

This is fitting, because her actions had a profound influence beyond her own country. Her struggle was of truly universal significance. Her life teaches us to fight discrimination in all its forms,

with courage, vision and determination.

She said at a celebration in her honour some time ago, "I am leaving this legacy to all of you ... to bring peace, justice, equality, love and a fulfillment of

what our lives should be. Without vision, the people will perish, and without courage and inspiration, dreams will die -- the dream of freedom and peace."

I'm pleased to share this time with our own minister for children, the Honourable Mary Anne Chambers.

Hon. Mary Anne V. Chambers (Minister of Children and Youth Services): I rise to encourage you and my colleagues to recognize that what

happened in 1955 actually happened in the lifetime of many of us here. In fact, I was five years old that year, but more importantly, my sister was eight and visiting Miami with my mother, who had

frequently visited Miami on business.

What was different about that particular occasion was that when my mother visited a restaurant that she often visited when she was in Miami, on that particular

occasion she had my sister with her, her black daughter. On that occasion my mother was introduced to discrimination. She was refused service because my sister was with her.

Rosa Parks's legacy must serve as a constant reminder to all of us of the evil of discrimination and segregation on the basis of race or any other irrelevant

characteristic. It must convince us that every single day that we live, we must be thankful to brave people like Rosa Parks, but more importantly, we must take personal responsibility for ensuring

that this kind of thing never happens again.

Mrs. Elizabeth Witmer (Kitchener-Waterloo): I'm pleased to speak on behalf of Rosa Parks. Yesterday, October 24, 2005, the world did indeed

lose a very courageous and determined American woman who changed the course of history in the United States.

Rosa Parks, often referred to as the mother of the civil rights movement, was born Rosa Louise McCauley on February 14, 1913, in Alabama, to a carpenter and a

school teacher who instilled in their daughter the value of self-worth, self-worth both as an African-American and as a woman. But it is unlikely that either Rosa Parks or her parents had ever

imagined that one day she would be the public face of the civil rights movement in the United States.

I would just like to trace her story, because when I looked at the TV last night, you remember that she had a significant impact, but I think sometimes we

forget what actually happened. On December 1, 1955, 42-year-old Rosa Parks was on her way home from her job as a seamstress for the Montgomery Fair department store. She boarded the Cleveland

Avenue bus in Montgomery, Alabama, and she took a seat in the fifth row, otherwise known as the first row of the "coloured section."

Under Alabama law, when a bus was full, black passengers had to give up their seats to white passengers and move further down to the back of the bus. However,

on this particular day, Rosa Parks refused to stand and give up her seat to a white passenger. She was subsequently arrested and found guilty of disorderly conduct. Although not the first black

person to refuse to give up her seat on a bus, Rosa Parks was a very well-respected member of the African-American community, having been involved with several organizations, and her refusal to

give up her seat received a tremendous amount of attention from the African-American community.

The Montgomery bus incident led to the formation of the Montgomery Improvement Association, led by a young and relatively unknown pastor at the time by the

name of Martin Luther King Jr. The association called for a boycott of the city-owned bus companies by all blacks, a boycott which lasted over a year and which brought Rosa Parks, Dr. King and

their cause to the attention of the world.

On November 13, 1956, a Supreme Court decision struck down the Montgomery ordinance under which Mrs. Parks had been fined and declared that Alabama's state and

local laws requiring segregation on buses were illegal. Federal injunctions were also served shortly after on the city and bus company officials, forcing them to follow the Supreme Court's

ruling.

On December 21, 1956, Dr. King and Reverend Glen Smiley, a white minister, shared the front seat of a public bus. The civil rights movement, which was now put

into full motion, would eventually lead to the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It was thanks to Rosa Parks and others who supported her that citizens in America today, regardless of race, must be given

equal treatment under the law.

However, even after this, Rosa Parks continued to fight for freedom and equality, and to educate others about the civil rights movement. She sponsored a summer

program for teenagers called Pathways to Freedom, in which young people tour America in buses, learning about the country's history and the civil rights movement.

Although Mrs. Parks passed away yesterday at the age of 92, her legacy to future generations will continue. She will remain a constant reminder of the fight

for civil rights and equality for all human beings, regardless of race and gender. She will also serve as a constant reminder of the need to educate others to ensure that freedom and equality are

never, ever compromised.

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): There is an old saying that some people are born to greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon

them. Rosa Parks was not someone who sought greatness. Those who knew her knew her as a quiet person, even a shy person, but they also knew her as a determined person.

On December 1, 1955, in Montgomery, Alabama -- an ordinary day, with unimportant things happening -- a 42-year-old seamstress sitting on a bus sparked a

revolution. With only a few words, Rosa Lee Parks changed the course of history. "Are you going to stand up?" the bus driver demanded. "No," Rosa Parks answered. "Well, by God, I'm going to have

you arrested," the driver said. "You may do that," she replied. By her determination, she inspired the struggle for freedom around the world. By her determination, the civil rights movement was

born into full force.

Rosa Parks was a quiet person, but she was determined and she was a fighter for equality, and she was a liberator. With her passing now ends the life of one of

the great figures of the 20th century. Rosa Parks's legacy has many aspects, but her most enduring was her strength and her humanity. Throughout her life, she fought for equality and preached

courage and charity. We owe a great deal to her.

I expect Rosa Parks would tell us that there are still civil rights challenges today that need to be addressed. We need to recognize that racism,

discrimination and prejudice continue to exist in the world, in our world. First Nation communities struggle to be treated with equality and endure systematic discrimination. Racial profiling still

happens in our midst. New Democrats believe no one should be subjected to racism, racial profiling or any kind of prejudice or discrimination in Ontario and in Canada. No progress today and no

sustainable development tomorrow are conceivable without the elimination of discrimination for all as a fundamental human right. We are all members of one society, we are all citizens of the world

and we all bear the responsibility.

Nous devons encourager une attitude accueillante et de soutènement envers nos différences, reconnaissant nos luttes ainsi que les voyages incroyables

que plusieurs de nos soeurs et de nos frères ont entrepris. Nous devons également supporter l'égalité, la justice, la liberté et les droits de la personne. Nous devons tous

inspirer de la grandeur.

This will not be the end of Rosa Parks. She left us a legacy. She will be remembered as one who fought against racism, and she did it with dignity. That is the

way people should conduct themselves. That is what Rosa Parks wanted.

At a celebration in her honour a couple of years ago, she said, "I am leaving this legacy to all of you ... to bring peace, justice, equality, love and a

fulfillment of what our lives should be. Without vision, the people will perish, and without courage and inspiration, dreams will die -- the dream of freedom and peace."

Let us celebrate the life of a truly remarkable woman. Let us recognize that the work she started still leaves much to be done.

ORAL QUESTIONS

CRIME PREVENTION

Mr. Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): My question is for the Premier. Premier, your Liberal government has announced that 1,000 new police

officers will be hired --

Applause.

Mr. Runciman: It is certainly an announcement to be applauded, but the government has reannounced it seven times over the past 29 months, and

not one officer is on the beat today. I don't hear any applause for that. Can the Premier explain why that is the case?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): I'm pleased to be able to report that we have received a very positive

response on the part of Ontario municipalities who are submitting applications for these 1,000 police officers, including, as I understand it, applications to fund 400 police officers who are

presently on the job. I'm sure that my friend opposite will want to keep that in mind as we move forward.

May I say as well that I'm very pleased that to date, although we don't pretend to have all the answers when it comes to dealing with the issue of crime

anywhere in the province of Ontario, I want to congratulate the Attorney General for the announcement he made earlier today and the way that he has been able to further strengthen our guns and

gangs task force by adding 26 senior police officers and 32 additional crown prosecutors.

Mr. Runciman: They're telling us that of the 1,000, 400 are already on the job. So we're down to 600 new police officers, I guess.

Premier, your Attorney General announced 55 days ago that a gun amnesty program was being created by your government. Today, he said of that program, "Just

trust us; it's coming soon." Your Attorney General also announced 55 days ago an improved witness protection program for people who come forward to shed light on a gun crime. Today, he said, "Just

trust us; it's coming soon." It is the same story with the 1,000 new police officers -- I guess it's now 600 -- that you have announced an incredible seven times, with predictable results: zero new

police officers on the streets.

Premier, why should Ontarians "just trust" you when you so clearly demonstrated your commitment to fighting gun crime is no commitment at all?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: Let me take this opportunity to tell you a bit more about the success being enjoyed by our guns and gangs task force, which

was originally created by the Attorney General in January 2004.

The good work of the prosecutors and police involved on that task force has led to three separate major investigations and three major results: Project Impact

led to 65 gang arrests and 275 charges; Project Pathfinder led to 16 gang arrests and over 100 charges; and more recently, in September of this year, Project Flicker led to 54 arrests and over

1,200 charges. What we're talking about here is the result of the funding already in place and the work already done: 135 gang arrests, 1,575 charges. I call that moving the yardstick forward. It's

not everything, but we're moving in the right direction.

Mr. Runciman: Mr. Speaker, your Attorney General likes to claim credit for everything but the weather. The reality is that the Toronto police

formed that task force in 2002.

I want to ask you about your government's sincerity in terms of its commitment to public safety. I'd call it a phony front, a shell game, driven by political

polls. You have to take a look at the considerable cuts that this government is considering: over $300 million in cuts to the justice system; the parole board -- we've already heard about that,

transferring it to the federal system with a horrific record; closing jails; pre-charge diversion -- can you believe it; dismantling the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board. That's the sort of

public safety commitment they have.

I ask the Premier today to clarify for all of us -- he's telling us he's so concerned about public safety -- is your government, are you personally,

considering these draconian cuts to the justice ministries? Clarify that, yes or no.

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: No, we're not, but let me just say something. If bombast were the prerequisite to eliminating crime in Ontario, then we

would have no crime on the streets of Ontario after seven years of Tory government. But the fact of the matter is, that former government did more than its fair share of sowing the seeds for the

issues we've got to grapple with today.

Just to remind my friends opposite, in addition to our commitment to put 1,000 more police officers on the streets of Ontario, in addition to the expansion of

the work being done by our guns and gangs task force, we have put in place 34 new judges, 50 new crown attorneys, 55 probation officers, and we continue to press the federal government for

mandatory minimum sentences for all gun crimes. The fact of the matter is that we're working as hard as we can to pick up where they dropped the ball.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): New question?

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): My question is for the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services. It's interesting to note

that at today's press conference you indicated that 26 police officers will be added to the guns and gangs task force. It is my understanding that the officers are not part of the 1,000 new police

officers, but will be redirected from other police services such as York, Durham, the RCMP and possibly the OPP. Minister, you can give this House a breakdown on exactly where those 26 police

officers will be coming from?

Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): The member will know that when we announced our 1,000 police

officers program, we said that 500 of them would be used for community policing and 500 would be used for six defined areas that we're going to address, one of which is guns and gangs. What has

happened is that the announcement was made by the Attorney General today that we are going to put 26 additional experienced officers into the guns and gangs task force, and we are going to provide

$500,000 in bridge financing. But when this program is fully implemented, they in fact will be in those 1,000 officers. That's how it works.

Mr. Dunlop: Thank you, Minister, but your Premier already mentioned that you've hired 400. That's what he just said. Minister, will your

ministry be compensating the already understaffed police services of York, Durham, Peel, Toronto, the RCMP and the OPP for the loss of manpower due to the officers being redirected to work on the

guns and gangs task force? Who will be paying the salaries of these officers from the other police services who will be working on the guns and gangs task force? Just who is going to be paying the

bill? That's what I'm asking you.

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: I'd like to use this opportunity to explain these 400 officers. We said that we would provide, during our mandate, 1,000 net

new officers. That means we would use October 23, 2003, as the benchmark. Every police service replaces officers every year. They do it for attrition, resignations, transfers, deaths and

retirements. So we've said to them, "As of October 23, 2003, any net new officers that you provide we will fund to a formula of 400 for that particular sector, 60 for officers in the north and the

other 540 for new officers."

What is happening is that these officers who are going to be seconded, effectively, to this task force will come out of that pool, but we're starting that

immediately because these are experienced officers we want to put to work today. That's what we're doing.

Mr. Dunlop: That's a good answer.

Interjections.

Mr. Dunlop: It's typical Liberal math at work.

In response to a media poll that shows residents of Toronto think that crime is the number one issue, the message from your government today is, "Just trust

us. Our answer is coming soon." The problem is, all we see from you on the file is dithering and foot-dragging: no new police officers, despite seven announcements; no new police officers to fight

gun crime, merely a shuffling of officers from one department to another; no action or pressing your federal cousins in Ottawa for tougher sentencing to keep violent criminals off the streets in

the first place; and finally, your mandate to cut $300 million from the justice ministries.

Minister, why have you failed to keep our communities as safe as they possibly can be?

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: The Premier has already indicated to you the success we've had with our guns and gangs strategy. You should also know that

these police officers we're talking about -- there seems to be a perception on that side of the House that I have a warehouse full of officers and I'm just waiting to send them to different

places.

We are providing funding. We said we would provide that funding during the mandate of our government, and we've made that commitment. We've increased the

number for your community policing program from a maximum of $30,000 per officer to a maximum of $35,000 an officer. We've taken 60 officers in the north and said we're going to provide them with

$70,000 an officer, and we're going to make it retroactive for those 400 officers who have been hired and are on the street.

This is a funding program that has the co-operation of the Ontario Association of Chiefs of Police. They helped us to design it. They are fully supportive

The Speaker: Thank you. New question.

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): The question is for the Premier. The number of homicides in Toronto this year now stands at 64, most

of them young adults. Young people who live in the neighbourhoods afflicted by this violence have told you and your government what must be done to end the violence. They point to closed community

centres, abandoned after-school programs, and youth counsellors and community outreach workers fired from schools. And police, community agencies and organizations like the Canadian Tamil Youth

Development Centre and Malvern Family Resource Centre agree with the youth. They don't want more half measures, they don't want more pilot projects; they want the social and community investments

that are needed to deal with this violence. When is it going to happen, Premier?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: It is happening. It's happening right now. For example, I've had the opportunity to meet with the East Scarborough Boys and

Girls Club, I met with the Jamaican Canadian Association, I had a very good briefing from Operation Springboard and I met with the representation on the part of the African community coalition,

together with Minister Chambers and a number of other ministers. I've had a very good discussion with all of these groups and representatives. We talked about some of the things we need to do

together to ensure that we are tackling head-on not only crime itself but the causes of crime.

The member opposite will be very much aware of some of the programs we've funded. We look forward to continuing to work with these community groups so that we

can improve the levels of support as we go forward.

Mr. Hampton: Many of these youth organizations and community groups have been meeting with your government for over two years. They're tired

of being consulted. They want to see some action. They want to see something beyond pilot projects and piecemeal short-term funding.

For example, I met with Sharon Shelton, executive director of Tropicana, and her staff. They were very clear: Community agencies need long-term, sustainable

funding, not more pilot projects. What they're getting from your government is a trickle here, a trickle there and more short-term, short funding. The Dixon Neighbourhood Youth Centre was recently

forced to stop their drop-in program at the end of last summer. Why? Because you had provided only short-term funding.

Premier, when are the people who are losing their lives as a result of this violence going to see action from your government rather than pilot projects and

press conferences?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I just want to draw to the attention of the member opposite that when I met with those groups, I did so out of the view of

media, and it was not the subject of press conferences.

Just let me tell you about one particular initiative that we have moved ahead with, and that's this whole notion of community use of schools. There is a letter

that was sent to the Honourable Jim Watson, Minister of Health Promotion, from Ilene Watt, executive director of Basketball Ontario, and I want to quote from that letter, where she wrote:

"I cannot thank you and your staff enough for moving forward with the community use of schools program. It has made an incredible difference to the delivery of

basketball programs by our member clubs across the province. The seven years of cutbacks in funding to the school system by the previous government actually eroded the number of children playing

house league by an estimated 10,000 as gym fees continued to rise.... Our sport has a strong appeal to lower-income and new immigrant families whose national sport is basketball, and it is very

important to keep this category of sport and physical activity open and accessible to all."

We don't pretend to be purveyors of magic when it comes to dealing with crime issues, but I can tell you, we are very sincere in moving ahead with the kinds of

initiatives that make up for lost ground under the previous government and that meet the needs of young people as they exist today.

Mr. Hampton: The Premier would have people believe that basketball is the solution. Let me tell you, the community organizations I've met with

have been very clear as well. Basketball is one piece of a bigger puzzle.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. Stop the clock. I need to be able to hear the leader of the third party.

Mr. Hampton: Premier, they're very clear that every time you stand up and talk about basketball, it is further evidence that you do not

understand the issues here. There are all kinds of youth in this city who do not play basketball. They need after-school activities as well. There are all kinds of youth who want to have an

opportunity at a job. There are all kinds of youth who need to know that there's going to be an outreach worker there, that there's going to be a social worker attached to the school so that the

issues that they have to address -- like poverty, like homelessness, like having parents who are working three jobs to pay the rent and put food on the table -- can be understood and addressed.

Premier, you said, "Choose change," to people. For all kinds of youth in this city who are seeing this violence, who are victims of this violence --

The Speaker: The question has been asked.

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: The member is essentially saying that he doesn't like the kind of change that we're bringing to Ontario, and I accept that

from him, given his partisan standing and take on all of these things, but we think we're moving in the right direction when it comes to attacking both the cause of crime and crime itself.

The member opposite makes -- and he knows -- a very unfair accusation that somehow we're entirely committed to and focused on one particular issue, which

happens to be recreating basketball programs in the province of Ontario. Obviously, we're doing much, much more than that.

In addition to community use of schools, which involves many more programs than just basketball, we're funding pre-apprenticeship projects and summer job

programs. I'm looking, at some point in time, for support from the member opposite for our mandatory learning until the age of 18, which will go a long way to engaging and challenging young people

who otherwise become prey to joining a gang. That may not be something that meets the standards of the member opposite, but I think it's something that Ontario --

The Speaker: Thank you. New question.

HOSPITAL FUNDING

Mr. Howard Hampton (Kenora-Rainy River): To the Premier: I would say, with 64 homicides, I'm not much impressed with your change.

Today, federal NDP leader Jack Layton and Paul Martin are meeting to address the spread of private health care in Canada. On the front edge of this private

health care devolution is your scheme for 15 privately financed hospitals. In opposition, Premier, you said, "We believe in ... public financing" of hospitals because private financing is a "waste

of money." Premier, can you tell the people of Ontario when you changed your mind and decided that our health care dollars are better spent on profits for corporations than on health care services

for people?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): We're going to hear the leader of the NDP bang this iron for years to

come; there is little new or innovative in that particular approach. I know that Ontarians are in fact interested in knowing what this government is doing by way of a demonstrable commitment to

ensuring that hospitals are built in the province of Ontario.

We're going to get the hospitals built sooner, we're going to get them built on time and on budget, and they're going to be publicly owned, publicly controlled

and publicly accountable. Five key principles inform our work in this regard: The public interest shall be paramount; value for money must be demonstrated; public ownership and control will be

maintained; accountability will be evident; and the whole process will be fair, transparent and efficient. We think it's important to build new hospitals in the province of Ontario. Perhaps the

member opposite has a different view.

Mr. Hampton: The Premier now says that ordinary families should settle for privately financed hospitals that put profits before people. I want

to be clear: New Democrats believe that if we have $10 for health care, then $10 should go toward health care, not eight for health care and two for corporate profits.

I want to refer to Derek Hansen, who is a town councillor near Sault Ste. Marie, where you have a scheme to build a privately financed hospital. He says, "We

are prepared to give our fair share of funding [for the hospital], but not a penny if the private sector gets involved."

Can the Premier explain why he's building privately financed hospitals that put profits first when ordinary families want public hospitals that put people

first?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: I might encourage my friend to visit Sault Ste. Marie, as I did when I was there to announce the construction of a new

hospital in that community. I can tell you that it was overwhelmingly warmly received and welcomed. That community is delighted to learn that they are getting a new hospital. That hospital today is

over 45 years old. That community needs a new hospital, and they are eager to begin construction. Again, that hospital will be publicly owned, it will be publicly controlled and it will be publicly

accountable, and that's exactly what the people of the Soo are looking for.

Mr. Hampton: The people of Sault Ste. Marie deserve a new hospital, but they deserve a publicly financed and publicly owned hospital like you

promised, Premier.

Analysis of your Brampton privately financed hospital shows that a $500-million hospital becomes a $675-million hospital because the private financiers want a

profit of more than 20%. People aren't impressed with that, Premier. In fact, they see $175 million of health care funding being wasted, money that could be used to train more doctors, hire more

nurses or provide better care.

Premier, can you tell the people of Ontario how many more nurses we could train, how many more patients could receive good care with the $175 million that's

going into private profit pockets?

Hon. Mr. McGuinty: There's nothing quite like creative math when you are bent on scaremongering in Ontario.

Here are the facts: We are committed to get the best possible value for taxpayers. We are going to compare the cost of hospitals -- when we consider a new

project, we compare the actual cost of construction, based on the traditional method, and that has not always been the best for us. In Thunder Bay, the projected cost was $126 million, and it ended

up being more than twice that -- just so we understand how these things can sometimes come out. We compare the traditional method with this new proposal we have put before the people of Ontario,

and what we're asking people to do is compare the two. In each and every instance we are guaranteeing good value for the people of Ontario, guaranteeing publicly owned, publicly controlled and

publicly accountable hospitals. If the member opposite is against new hospitals in Ontario, then he should say so.

PUBLIC HEALTH

Mr. Robert W. Runciman (Leeds-Grenville): I have a question for the Premier. Premier, on October 6 your Minister of Health confirmed that your

government contributes the majority of public health funding to municipal health departments. Will you today guarantee that not one cent of provincial funding will fund safe injection sites for

crack cocaine addicts in our city?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): To the Minister of Health.

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): Yes, quite easily, for two reasons: First, there is no such proposal before

any municipalities in Ontario, and more to the point, any such site would require federal approval. There is no ongoing discussion in any jurisdiction in Ontario that I am aware of with an issue of

that nature.

Mr. Runciman: I guess the Premier's communications people have spoken to the minister after his scrum this morning. In his scrum, he was far

less certain than he is here this afternoon. He said he has asked for more time to review the recommendations from the Toronto health department to see what they said about safe injection sites.

That's what you said at the scrum this morning.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: Were you there?

Mr. Runciman: Well, some people were there. Minister, and this really should be to the Premier, will you now guarantee, today, that you will

take any and all steps necessary to ensure that provincial money, taxpayer money, is not used as an enabler for drug users and their addictions? Will you guarantee that safe injection sites do not

crop up in our cities under any circumstances?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: I've already indicated in my earlier question the circumstances that would have to be prevalent before any such

consideration could be made, and other levels of government would have to deal with that before it was our responsibility. I've indicated that there are, accordingly, no public health dollars

involved in this.

But where the honourable member is wrong, and he could get this right quite easily: When the question was posed this morning, I said that no report from the

city of Toronto suggests or recommends safe injection sites, which is true. I said in the scrum that I thought it was important that I go back and check, because I had been briefed on the report,

and I felt that the reporter asking the question may have been asking it in a somewhat erroneous fashion. I believe I have been validated on that point, and the honourable member would benefit from

just a little bit more help.

WATER QUALITY

Mr. Gilles Bisson (Timmins-James Bay): Premier, you are aware that the community in Kashechewan is in the midst of a water crisis. You know

that children, the elderly and the frail are suffering from exposure to E. coli-infected water. Fully one half of the community's population is infected by skin diseases. I want to read from

this morning's Toronto Star: " ... infected with scabies, a nasty parasite, and impetigo, a bacterial skin infection characterized by blisters that may itch." You will also know that the very

people who are sick are being treated with bad water and are getting sicker and sicker by the day.

You will be meeting this afternoon with the Chiefs of Ontario. They're going to ask you to help them by declaring a state of emergency and evacuating children

and the elderly, those who are sick, so that they can be treated and not be further exposed to bacteria-infected and E. coli-infected water.

Will you, Premier, today in this House say, "Yes, we will do what we have to do by declaring a state of emergency"?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): To the minister responsible for aboriginal affairs.

Hon. David Ramsay (Minister of Natural Resources, minister responsible for aboriginal affairs): I appreciate the member being available after

question period yesterday to have a meeting with community leaders. We met and sorted out these two issues. There's an issue you've just brought up in this question in regard to the medical

treatment needed by the people there who have been affected by the high chlorine levels in the water. Also, there's the issue of the ongoing water treatment plant and its upkeep and maintenance.

From that meeting, we decided that the doctor would make the determination, circling back to the community overnight, and that the nurses there would make a recommendation as to the number of

patients who would need medical evacuation.

Once we get those figures, we'll make that consideration this afternoon.

Mr. Bisson: Premier, I am quite frankly shocked that you're not gripped by the urgency of the situation. We've got kids who are sick. Some of

you have been to that community; at least you've seen it in the paper. They're getting sicker and sicker by the day.

You said today in response to a scrum question that you were embarrassed about what happened in Kashechewan. Your government knew for two years, as a result of

an inspection done by the Ontario Clean Water Agency, that people were at risk and all you did was send a letter to the federal government to say there was a problem. Imagine how the people of

Kashechewan feel. I think they feel more than embarrassed; they feel quite ill.

I am going to ask you again: The chiefs are going to ask you today to declare a state of emergency to evacuate those children and elderly who are sick and

getting sicker. Will you (inaudible) and will you declare that state of emergency, or are we going to be embarrassed by tomorrow?

Hon. Mr. Ramsay: I would hope that right after question period we're going to have that information, and we're planning to have a meeting

before we meet with the regional chiefs on that.

I would also like to give the member an update. I was speaking at noon hour with our Minister of the Environment, Laurel Broten, in regard to the water

treatment system. Basically, she has put on standby the chief drinking water inspector of Ontario and asked him to put together an expert team from the Walkerton Clean Water Centre. That team now

is on standby, and as soon as I get the OK from the chief, that team is going up into the community.

TEACHER TRAINING

Mr. Jim Brownell (Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh): My question is to the Minister of Education. Before becoming a member of provincial

Parliament, I spent 32 years in the classroom as an educator. Standing in front of a classroom can be an intimidating experience for any teacher. How well I remember standing in front of my first

class as a rookie in 1969.

My daughter Alison has recently followed my footsteps into the teaching profession, this being her first year as a teacher at Roxmore Public School in my great

riding of Stormont-Dundas-Charlottenburgh. You recently announced an induction program for all new teachers such as Alison that will provide mentoring and on-the-job training. When starting my

teaching career, I didn't have the benefits of such a program, and I believe this program could be valuable for those students starting today. Minister, can you explain to Ontarians how this

program will benefit and support first-year teachers?

Hon. Gerard Kennedy (Minister of Education): It is a program that I think is notable in the sense that it's the first time ever that a second

professional step is being taken, not just in Ontario but anywhere in the country. What it does, really, is send a signal, certainly to teachers but also to students and parents, that we value the

commitment that comes with a brand new teacher but we also understand it is a challenging profession and needs to be supported, especially in that critical first year.

These new teachers will receive a mentor, an experienced teacher. They will receive specific professional development to address the things you can only learn

on the job, like classroom management, dealing with parents effectively, doing some of the things that may not have been covered fully in their preparation in the pre-service university

program.

What it means, in short, is that we will provide the most support there has ever been to beginning teachers. In previous years and in previous administrations,

we lost as many as one in three in their first five years. But in addition, we will have the best-prepared teachers anywhere in the country.

Mr. Brownell: Teaching is a great profession, and we in this House know that it takes a certain type of person to excel as an educator. We

also know that one teacher can really make a world of difference in a child's life. I experience this regularly when former students contact me here at Queen's Park to show their current successes.

I believe that too many gifted and talented teachers today are leaving this profession early and I commend you for initiating a program to assist teachers who are just beginning to realize their

potential.

Under former governments, Ontario teachers wrote qualifying tests to become prepared for the teaching world. How does this program improve upon the former

Ontario teacher qualification testing program?

Hon. Mr. Kennedy: We thought it was important to have quality assurance about teachers when they're actually teaching. What there was before

was an expensive $9-million test applied by an American company, hired by the previous government, that gave the test before any classroom teaching started and right after the students had finished

their exams and their coursework.

What will happen instead is that every new teacher will be evaluated by a principal two times during their year and they will receive supportive development in

between. If they don't succeed in that, they will continue to get development. They will then reach the formal teacher appraisal program. I think what this does is create the right kind of

relationship where principals are both evaluating but also supporting the development of new teachers. Unlike some previous administrations, we believe it is our job in this Legislature to support

the quality of teaching, to make sure that it works, to make sure that every student in this province has their potential unlocked by a teacher who will help them to reach their potential as

quickly as possible.

TOBACCO INDUSTRY

Mr. Ted Arnott (Waterloo-Wellington): Will the Premier inform the House what his government is prepared to do to help the 550 workers at

Imperial Tobacco in Guelph who are losing their jobs next year because of his government's policy?

Hon. Dalton McGuinty (Premier, Minister of Research and Innovation): The Minister of Economic Development and Trade.

Hon. Joseph Cordiano (Minister of Economic Development and Trade): Imperial Tobacco made a decision, obviously, responding to market

conditions.

Mr. Peter Kormos (Niagara Centre): Nice suit.

Hon. Mr. Cordiano: You should try wearing one one day. This place might be more respectable.

The fact is that Imperial Tobacco is responding to market conditions they've cited. Their market has declined and they've cited those reasons. But I have to

tell you that there's a lot of great news in the economy right now in terms of new job creation. Let me just repeat what has happened in Woodstock with Toyota locating there. That's going to have a

tremendous impact on that community, which is affected by tobacco losses in terms of the market conditions. The new jobs that are coming to Woodstock and that entire region of southwestern Ontario,

the spin-offs in terms of parts jobs, puts a tremendous boost to the economy and a great vote of confidence in the economy of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Supplementary question.

Mr. Toby Barrett (Haldimand-Norfolk-Brant): This has to go back to the Premier. Clearly the Guelph area is another casualty of McGuinty's war

on tobacco. As with tobacco farming, your government is waving goodbye to jobs and to tax dollars. You jack up taxes, you jack up illegal consumption, and you force legal producers and legal

manufacturers to leave the country. Community businesses go under. I've lost five new car dealerships now in my riding. Premier, this is serious. Tobacco companies need a non-partisan working

relationship with your government to salvage Canada's farming and industrial community. Given the recent bad news, and I regret they have made light of this bad news, will the Premier inform the

House what he is going to do to provide a dignified exit from tobacco for farmers, and support their communities?

Interjections.

The Speaker: The Minister of Labour will need to come to order.

Hon. Mr. Cordiano: The Minister of Agriculture would like to respond to that.

Hon. Leona Dombrowsky (Minister of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs): I'm really happy to have the opportunity to talk in this House about

what our government has done to support the tobacco industry, as they recognize the importance to transition to new crops, and also the importance of investing in those communities. We have

established the tobacco transition fund. We have asked the Ontario Flue-Cured Tobacco Growers' Marketing Board to administer $35 million for tobacco farmers in Ontario. Another $15 million has been

set aside and delivered to the Canada futures development program to support communities where the tobacco industry has been significant, to assist them in diversifying some of the initiatives in

those areas where the impact of announcements such as --

The Speaker: Thank you. New question.

JUSTICES OF THE PEACE

Ms. Andrea Horwath (Hamilton East): My question is for the Attorney General. New Democrats have repeatedly called on you to do something about

Ontario's critical shortage of justices of the peace. Hamilton's provincial offences courts are in chaos over your failure to address the JP shortage across Ontario. Had you fixed the problem like

you had promised, Hamilton would have two courts sitting three times a day, five days a week, handling provincial offences, but because of your inaction, only one courtroom is being used and it

operates only one day a month. Attorney General, what is your plan to properly staff provincial offences courts in Hamilton and elsewhere so they can operate at full strength?

Hon. Michael Bryant (Attorney General): I welcome the question because the time for modernizing the justice of the peace bench is upon us now.

This is a bench that has not had any significant changes to the way in which people are appointed, to the way in which the complement is in fact addressed, or issues dealing with transparency and

independence. Nothing has changed for year after year after year under that government or that government. So what this government has been doing is appointing justices of the peace in a different

way.

They are interviewed. A number of names are submitted to the Justices of the Peace Review Council and, just as with the Ontario Court of Justice, they

recommend a set of appointments from which they are appointed to the justice of the peace bench. It means that there is more independence. It means that there is more transparency and, most

importantly, it means -- and I'm sure the members of the third party would be supportive of this -- that we are modernizing the justice of the peace bench so that we are giving our justice system

and the people who appear before it --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. Supplementary.

Ms. Horwath: Unfortunately, the efforts you're making are cold comfort to the people of Hamilton. In fact, ministry officials in my city say

they are worried that important charges are being thrown out: everything from drunk driving and dangerous workplaces to derelict landlords. The landlord of 355 Melvin Avenue in Hamilton East is

finally facing charges on major property violations, but your failure to provide enough justices of the peace means that this case won't even be heard until February 2007, at the earliest. Your

non-response is that the Dalton McGuinty don't-pay-a-cent-event for law-breakers is good enough, and that's not good enough for me.

Can you please tell me again, why have you allowed Hamilton's court system to become so dysfunctional and what is your plan to fix this very serious

problem?

Hon. Mr. Bryant: As I said, the opportunity to modernize the bench is upon us. A bill is going to be introduced on this matter very, very

soon. I know that the third party is going to want to immediately do all they can to ensure that we can achieve the expedited debate, that we can achieve appropriate attention to this, so that we

can get this bill, if it receives the support of the Legislature, passed as soon as possible, so that we can help that court in Hamilton, so that we can help that court in every corner of the

province and so that we can have a justice of the peace system that we can all be proud of. Ladies and gentlemen, it's finally happening.

HEALTH CARE

Mr. Ernie Parsons (Prince Edward-Hastings): My question is to the Minister of Health and Long-Term Care. I can't tell you how pleased and

proud I was with yesterday's announcement of Ontario's first-ever wait times Web site. We all know that one of the challenges in our health care system has long been wait times for the kind of

procedures people need to restore their eyesight, allow them to be mobile and independent, or that can literally change their lives.

It's clear that long wait times have been the shameful legacy left to Ontario by previous governments. Poor decisions and a lack of fortitude to tackle a

challenging problem on behalf of Ontarians left a health care system that didn't work for patients. This was unfortunate, as people like my constituents paid the price as a result. Now we're making

real progress.

I went on to www.health.gov.on.ca yesterday as soon as it was launched, and I felt empowered, not just for myself but for my constituents. Can you tell me more

about this Web site and how it fits in with our plans and benefits for patients?

Hon. George Smitherman (Minister of Health and Long-Term Care): I think the well-known adage that information is power has come to life in

Ontario as relates to wait times. Yesterday, as a result of the actions of our government, but more particularly the actions of our government made possible by the extraordinary leadership of the

health care system, Ontarians were given access to a tremendous amount of new information.

Yesterday, Ontarians were also forced to face down the cynicism of those opposite who said derisively, "Who would bother to log on to a Web site?" In the first

25 hours of the operation of this Web site, 22,480 Ontarians reached in and asked for information about what's going on. What I am especially proud to report is that at least two of those 22,000

people were seniors who found the capacity to navigate this tool that, according to my critic from the PC Party --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you.

Mr. Parsons: I'm sorry I went overtime, but if I speak any faster, they won't understand over there.

Minister, this is what my constituents and I have been waiting for for far too long. Our government has a plan, the fortitude to deliver results on behalf of

patients in this province. I have always felt strongly that people are entitled to their health care information. As I said earlier, I went on to the Web site with excitement yesterday to learn

more about the wait times in my own local health integration network. I saw that wait times for knee replacements in the southeast LHIN vary substantially, with Quinte Healthcare having the

shortest wait times. This means that patients on a wait list in Kingston can consult with their doctor to explore the possibility of having the operation done at Quinte Healthcare. At the same

time, I noted that Kingston has been a leader in terms of wait times for MRIs. This looks like the beginning of a system that will work for patients. Is this the kind of information we expect will

help patients across the province?

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: I think the evidence is in that the only people who like this Web site are the people themselves. The honourable member

understands by the nature of his question that as local health --

Interjection.

Hon. Mr. Smitherman: Oh, give that guy a question, please -- that as local health integration networks come to life, we have the capacity for

the health care system in the same area to work together and to perform more as a system, not each hospital operating alone without any regard for what's going on in other hospitals, but rather, as

an example, surgical programs coming together and seeking to find the ways they can better work together. This is the evidence that is developing all across the province of Ontario, and in the

southeast LHIN as in each of the other 14, we have a new capacity for system performance and new, powerful tools for Ontarians.

PROPERTY TAXATION

Mr. Tim Hudak (Erie-Lincoln): A question to the Minister of Finance: Yesterday I asked you a very basic question about your plans for the

provincial education property tax rate and you seemed unaware that the Minister of Finance sets that. I think you've had a chance for your briefing, so I'll ask you again. Cities and counties

across Ontario are seeing substantial increases in their MPAC assessments. Homeowners are also coping with your higher energy costs, your higher taxes, higher gas prices, and now, Dalton McGuinty

health care user fees. Would you please tell us that you'll prevent this education property tax from being taken from these hard-working taxpayers? Will you commit today to lowering the provincial

education property tax rate?

Hon. Dwight Duncan (Minister of Finance, Chair of the Management Board of Cabinet): I would remind the member opposite that in fact this

government in 2005 set the education tax as revenue-neutral. It responded to the assessment for the 2005 time period. As you know, the property tax assessments are going out. People are finding

out. By example, the province-wide uniform residential tax rate for 2005 was set at 0.296%, which was reduced from the rate your government set of 0.335%, to accommodate the changes in property tax

assessments.

Mr. Hudak: The minister continues to avoid my very simple question. Education property taxes are set to increase substantially, hundreds of

millions of dollars across Ontario, unless you act. Communities like Hamilton are seeing a 16% increase in their assessments; Prince Edward country, 21%; Grey and Bruce county, in the 20s; eastern

Ontario, in the 30s. Why don't you stand on your feet today and commit that those property tax bills are not going to go up by that rate, that you will, in your capacity as finance minister, commit

today to lowering the provincial property tax rate for education?

Hon. Mr. Duncan: Perhaps the member didn't understand what I said. The policy of this government has been to set the education tax rate as

revenue-neutral.

Now, let's talk about MPAC and the current system of reassessments that were developed under your government. I was very interested to read the comments of

John Yakabuski who, asked if the former government under Premier Mike Harris bungled the property tax evaluation system, said, "Apparently so."

What else have we reviewed about the property tax assessment? I'd like to just spend a moment reminding the member, since he has given me the opportunity to

re-explain our policy, what your policy was. You downloaded public health. You downloaded child care. You downloaded drinking water testing. You downloaded social housing. You downloaded roads and

bridges. You downloaded public transit. If property taxes have gone up in this province, sir, I respectfully submit that it's your fault --

The Speaker (Hon. Michael A. Brown): Thank you. New question.

Interjections.

The Speaker: Order. Stop the clock. The member for Nickel Belt is waiting to ask her question.

Member for Nickel Belt.

LEGAL AID

Ms. Shelley Martel (Nickel Belt): Thank you, Speaker.

I have a question for the Attorney General. Almost four years ago, Norrah Whitney filed a complaint of discrimination at the Ontario Human Rights Commission on

behalf of her autistic son, Lucas. She received a legal aid certificate to pay for a lawyer to handle the case. Legal aid has now cancelled the certificate, just as the Human Rights Tribunal of

Ontario begins to hear the case. Both her former counsel and Ms. Whitney have asked legal aid for reconsideration. There has been no reply.

Minister, will you intervene at legal aid to ensure that Lucas will have the representation he needs before the tribunal?

Hon. Michael Bryant (Attorney General): I know the member held a press conference on the subject this morning. I was not able to see it. If

the member has some particulars and specifics that she wishes to send over to me, I'll undertake to do whatever is appropriate for me to do.

Ms. Martel: I will send the specifics to you.

I want to make a couple of points. Despite writing to legal aid over a month ago, neither counsel for Ms. Whitney nor Ms. Whitney herself have received a reply

-- this at a time when a certificate has been in place for almost three years now. Norrah Whitney herself cannot afford to pay for a lawyer to represent Lucas. She is not a lawyer, so she does not

want to take on that responsibility herself.

This very important case could have very significant implications for hundreds of autistic children in this province. So I say to the minister again, because

he will have to do this, is he prepared to intervene at legal aid to ensure that Lucas will have a lawyer during these proceedings before the tribunal?

Hon. Mr. Bryant: This particular matter before the human rights tribunal does have commission counsel. Commission counsel is there and will be

bringing forth issues, facts and representing the public interest.

In addition to that, there is another lawyer who does represent the vast majority of people before the commission, who is receiving funding from Legal Aid

Ontario. I believe that --

Ms. Martel: No.

Hon. Mr. Bryant: Yes. I know that the individual the member has raised today is not using that counsel right now. That's why I've asked the

member to provide me with the particulars. And if there is something appropriate that I can do, I will do it.

ONTARIO MUNICIPAL BOARD

Mr. Kevin Daniel Flynn (Oakville): My question today is to the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, and it's on the issue of Ontario

Municipal Board reform. Minister, you will know that yesterday the GTA mayors and many members of GTA councils visited Queen's Park and held a press conference. They were here to encourage planning

and, more specifically, Ontario Municipal Board reforms. Since our election, our government has taken many steps to improve the planning system in Ontario. In fact, the mayor of my own community of

Oakville, Mayor Ann Mulvale, said yesterday, "The Liberal government has introduced a number of significant reforms to the planning process during the past two years. My constituents are very

interested in the planning process and in contributing to what the community will look like in years to come."

Minister, what steps has our government taken toward reforming planning systems and the Ontario Municipal Board?

Hon. John Gerretsen (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): Let me first of all thank the member for his question, because I know that he

has always had a huge interest in good planning, not only for Oakville but for Ontario. As a matter of fact, I note that as a former member of the GTA task force on OMB reform, he's got first-hand

experience as to what the community wants with respect to planning and OMB reform.

He will also know that our first act in the Legislature, as a matter of fact, was to pass the Strong Communities Planning Amendment Act, which basically gave

more powers to municipalities. It opened up the planning process and it also allowed for more and longer public scrutiny by the general public and councils.

I know he's also interested in cutting the cost of OMB hearings. We are involved in consultations. We will be coming forward with some legislative changes

within the very near future that I think both he and the individuals who spoke here yesterday can be proud of.

Mr. Flynn: That's a very good answer.

I chaired the planning reform consultation session hosted by the government in my community of Oakville last year -- a very well-attended meeting. It was a

great opportunity to listen to the views of my constituents in Oakville. Many individuals raised the point that the previous government did absolutely nothing about reforming the Ontario Municipal

Board. I am thrilled that we have acted and are doing something about the OMB.

The current GTA task force on OMB reform includes Mississauga Mayor Hazel McCallion, Oakville Mayor Ann Mulvale and Ajax Mayor Steve Parish. They applaud the

government's initiative in enacting changes to the planning process.

I'm aware that more reforms are required. Please explain to my constituents in Oakville what the next steps on OMB reform are and what steps will be involved

in that process.

Hon. Mr. Gerretsen: I might just remind the member as well that the Premier made a commitment to the AMO conference delegates in August this

year that there will be OMB reform and there will be a new era of municipal planning in Ontario. We all know that planning to deal with gridlock and sprawl has been lacking over the last eight

years, especially in the GTA, so we're going to deal with that.

We want to give municipalities the best tools possible to deal with planning issues. We want to make sure that the provincial policy statement is adhered to,

not only by municipalities but also by the Ontario Municipal Board, should that happen.

I would just ask the member to stay tuned, because OMB reform is on its way and it will be here shortly.

CRIME PREVENTION

Mr. Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North): I want to get a clarification from the Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services on the 26

police officers to the guns and gangs task force. I'm asking you once again, is there any way you could indicate to this House where those 26 police officers will come from? You didn't answer it

the first time, and I'm asking you if you can indicate what municipal police service -- or the OPP or the RCMP -- they will come from. I'd appreciate an answer to that.

Hon. Monte Kwinter (Minister of Community Safety and Correctional Services): This morning, during our press conference, Bill Blair, the Chief

of Police of Toronto, was asked that question. He said that because this gangs and guns issue is not confined to the geographic definition of Toronto -- they're not going to stop at Steeles Avenue

and not go across the street -- he is co-operating with the bordering police services of York, Durham and Peel, and saying, "We will all co-operate. You will provide officers to this task force."

The exact number, from whatever service, is to be determined, but the Attorney General has announced that we will provide $500,000 in bridge funding to finance that complement of 26. The exact

makeup of it and where they are going to get those officers is really the decision of the task force itself.

Mr. Dunlop: Thanks very much, Minister. I understand now what you were trying to say, except that I was expecting the specifics, whether it

was Halton or Peel or York or whatever it may be.

One other question: Is it true that, as you review the uploading of the Ontario Parole and Earned Release Board to the National Parole Board, you, along with

the Attorney General, are looking for ways to reduce the spending of the two ministries --

The Speaker: Member, that supplementary is in no way related to the original question.

Mr. Dunlop: It's to do with financing, Mr. Speaker.

The Speaker: It is a considerable stretch, but I'm sure the minister may, under the circumstance, want to answer.

Hon. Mr. Kwinter: First of all, there were two real issues in that supplementary. One was about the parole and early release program, and the

other one was the constraints that we're under in all levels of government. I can tell you this: We have a results-based plan that is going to get the finances of this province into a place where

-- you left it as a mess, and we're sorting that out. In order to get there, we've got to take a look at how we spend our money, to make sure that we are spending it efficiently and effectively. We

are doing that and we're doing that in all of the ministries across the whole of government. We are making sure that we fulfill our campaign promise to provide proper funding for education, proper

funding for health care and proper funding for economic development and also making sure that all of the other ministries deliver the services to the people of Ontario in a fiscally responsible

way.

TENANT PROTECTION

Mr. Michael Prue (Beaches-East York): My question is for the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing. More then two years ago, Dalton

McGuinty said that within one year of the election of a Liberal government, there would be a new Tenant Protection Act. One year has gone by, two years have gone by, we're into the fall session of

the third year, and there's nothing on the agenda paper. When are you going to bring forward the new Tenant Protection Act that actually protects tenants?

Hon. John Gerretsen (Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing): As the member well knows, it's a very complicated issue. We've been doing an

awful lot of consultation on it. We had a major consultation that took place last year.

Let's just talk about some of the programs that we have brought in with respect to tenants and with respect to renters in the province. We brought in the rent

bank, which helps out tenants who are in an emergency situation with some help that they need so that they can stay in their places. We brought in the Toronto pilot project in which 400 units were

made available for low-income families at a much reduced rent rate. We brought in rent guidelines at historically low levels; as a matter of fact, they were 1.5% for 2005 and 2.1% for 2006.

We are coordinating, together with the federal government, a national housing framework. There's much work to be done, but an awful lot has already been done

by this government in order to help the renters and the low-income people in the province of Ontario.

PETITIONS

CANCER TREATMENT

Mr. Cameron Jackson (Burlington): I have a petition to the Parliament of Ontario:

"Whereas Ontario has an inconsistent policy for access to new cancer treatments while these drugs are under review for funding; and

"Whereas cancer patients taking oral chemotherapy may apply for a

section 8 exception under the Ontario drug benefit plan with no such exception policy in

place for intravenous cancer drugs administered in hospital; and

"Whereas this is an inequitable, inconsistent and unfair policy, creating two classes of cancer patients with further inequities on the basis of personal

wealth and the willingness of hospitals to risk budgetary deficits to provide new intravenous chemotherapy treatments; and

"Whereas cancer patients have the right to the most effective care recommended by their doctors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario to provide immediate access to Velcade and other intravenous chemotherapy while these new cancer drugs

are under review and provide a consistent policy for access to new cancer treatments that enables oncologists to apply for exceptions to meet the needs of" Ontario "patients."

This petition has my signature of support as well.

MACULAR DEGENERATION

Mr. Bob Delaney (Mississauga West): I am pleased to lend assistance to my seatmate from Niagara Falls with this petition to the Legislative

Assembly of Ontario. It reads as follows:

"Whereas the government of Ontario's health insurance plan covers treatments for one form of macular degeneration (wet) and there are other forms of macular

degeneration (dry) that are not covered.

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"There are thousands of Ontarians who suffer from macular degeneration resulting in loss of sight if treatment is not pursued. Treatment cost for this disease

is astronomical for most constituents and adds a financial burden to their lives. Their only alternative is loss of sight. We believe the government of Ontario should cover treatment for all forms

of macular degeneration through the Ontario health insurance program."

This is a laudable objective. I will sign it and ask page Jasmine to carry it for me.

SERVICES FOR THE DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED

Mr. Ernie Hardeman (Oxford): I have here a petition signed by a great number of my constituents:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas without appropriate support, people who have an intellectual disability are often unable to participate effectively in community life and are deprived

of the benefits of society enjoyed by other citizens; and

"Whereas quality supports are dependent on the ability to attract and retain qualified workers; and

"Whereas the salaries of workers who provide community-based supports and services are up to 25% less than salaries paid to those doing the same work in

government-operated services and other sectors;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to address, as a priority, funding to community agencies in the developmental services

sector to address critical underfunding of staff salaries and ensure that people who have an intellectual disability continue to receive quality supports and services that they require in order to

live meaningful lives within their community."

I affix my signature to this, as I agree with it, and I give it to my friend Charlie, who will bring it up there for you.

IMMIGRANTS' SKILLS

Mr. Shafiq Qaadri (Etobicoke North): I have a petition here addressed to the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Lots of immigrants who come to this ... country with degrees in agriculture are forced to drive taxis in order to survive with their families. Some of the

reasons" for this condition are: "immigrants have no contacts with rural Ontario, they socialize in communities which have no ties in rural Ontario, labour jobs in rural communities do not fit into

the aspirations of agriculture-educated immigrants, government policies concentrate immigrants in urban areas, and finally, there is a huge gap in service for promoting, advocating and bridging the

agricultural skills and degrees earned in home countries by immigrant populations.

"If the Legislative Assembly helps us to set a training farm centre under `Community Economic Development for Immigrant Women' incorporation number 1618157,

the organization will follow strategies such as hands-on training on Ontario soil, presentations, workshops, farm tours, liaison with local farmers' associations and agricultural educational

institutions, advocacy in the provincial Legislature and municipal councils, and exploration trips by immigrant families to rural Ontario.

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"We want the Legislative Assembly of Ontario to recommend the Ministry of Agriculture to help in setting up a training farm centre in a rural area, which

should be most suitable for this purpose."

I am in agreement with this petition, and I send it to you via page Austin.

LESLIE M. FROST CENTRE

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): "Recommendations for the Frost Centre.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the McGuinty government announced the closure of the Leslie M. Frost Natural Resources Centre in July 2004 with no public consultation; and

"Whereas public outrage over the closure of the Frost Centre caused the government to appoint a working committee of local residents to examine options for the

future of the property; and

"Whereas the working committee has completed their consultations and has prepared recommendations for the provincial government that include a procedure to

follow during the request for proposals process; and

"Whereas the Frost Centre has been an important educational resource for the community, and continued use of the facility for educational purposes has

widespread support;

"We, the undersigned, petition the Parliament of Ontario as follows:

"The Dalton McGuinty Liberals should retain public ownership of the Frost Centre lands and follow the recommendations of the working committee regarding the

request for proposals process."

It's signed by hundreds of people from my riding, and we're looking forward to the request for proposals.

MACULAR DEGENERATION

Mr. Kevin Daniel Flynn (Oakville): I've got a petition from the riding of Niagara Falls.

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas the government of Ontario's health insurance plan covers treatments for one form of macular degeneration (wet) there are other forms of macular

degeneration (dry) that are not covered.

"We, the undersigned, petition the Legislative Assembly of Ontario as follows:

"There are thousands of Ontarians who suffer from macular degeneration resulting in loss of sight if treatment is not pursued. Treatment cost for this disease

is astronomical for most constituents and adds a financial burden to their lives. Their only alternative is loss of sight. We believe the government of Ontario should cover treatment for all forms

of macular degeneration through the Ontario health insurance program."

HIGHWAY 35

Ms. Laurie Scott (Haliburton-Victoria-Brock): Highway 35 four-laning:

"To the Legislative Assembly of Ontario:

"Whereas modern highways are economic lifelines to communities across Ontario and crucial to the growth of Ontario's economy;