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November 19, 2024

43rd Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

vol. A

Hansard Transcripts

vol. B

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcript 2024-Nov-19 vol. A (PDF)

L182A - Tue 19 Nov 2024 / Mar 19 nov 2024

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Tuesday 19 November 2024 Mardi 19 novembre 2024

Orders of the Day

Safer Roads and Communities Act, 2024 / Loi de 2024 pour prévoir des routes et des collectivités plus sûres

Members’ Statements

Fenelon Falls and District Lions Club

Community Care of St. Catharines and Thorold Great Holiday Food Drive

Special care nursery

Homelessness

Remembrance Day

Cost of living

Erin Huxley / Lansdowne Children’s Centre

Taxation

Royal Canadian Legion Branch 586

Children’s treatment centre

House sittings

Introduction of Visitors

Legislative pages

Use of electronic devices in House

Question Period

Hospital funding

Fundraising

Municipal funding

Energy policies

Netmizaaggamig Nishnaabeg First Nation

Taxation

Addiction services

Government’s record

Water and sewage infrastructure

University and college funding

Energy policies

Red tape reduction

Public transit

Public safety

Royal assent / Sanction royale

Introduction of Visitors

Introduction of Bills

Safer Driving Tests Act (Ending the Privatization Failure), 2024 / Loi de 2024 pour des examens de conduite plus sûrs (mettre fin à l’échec engendré par la privatisation)

Resource Recovery and Circular Economy Amendment Act (Beverage Container Deposit Program), 2024 / Loi de 2024 modifiant la

Loi sur la récupération des ressources et l’économie circulaire (programme de consignes applicables aux contenants de boissons)

Fixing Tribunals Ontario Backlogs Act, 2024 / Loi de 2024 sur la réduction de l’arriéré des tribunaux en Ontario

Petitions

Addiction services

Child care

Addiction services

Social assistance

Addiction services

Ontario Place

Housing

Addiction services

Transportation infrastructure

Child care

Orders of the Day

Safer Streets, Stronger Communities Act, 2024 / Loi de 2024 visant à accroître la sécurité dans les rues et à renforcer les collectivités

The House met at 0900.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Good morning. Let us pray.

Prayers.

Orders of the Day

Safer Roads and Communities Act, 2024 / Loi de 2024 pour prévoir des routes et des collectivités plus sûres

Mr. Sarkaria moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill 197,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act / Projet de loi 197, Loi modifiant le Code de la route.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Would the minister care to lead off third reading debate.

Hon. Prabmeet Singh Sarkaria: For the last quarter century, our province has had some of the safest roads in North America, and we’re very proud of this record. Ontario ranks among the top five jurisdictions with the lowest fatality rates. This is evidence of our dedication to road safety, but we know there’s always more we can do to protect drivers and families. Since the day our government was elected, we have taken decisive action to make our province as safe as possible, and that starts with our roads.

In 2021, our government tabled the Moving Ontarians More Safely Act, which introduced tough new measures to combat street racing and stunt driving. That bill showed Ontarians that safety isn’t an option and it must be taken seriously. With the Safer Roads and Communities Act, we’re ready to go a step further. We’re proposing the strictest penalties in the country for impaired driving. We’re taking bold action to keep car thieves and stunt drivers off our roads. We’re giving transportation enforcement officers the tools they need to ensure commercial vehicles are held to the highest safety standards.

And we’re doing it all to make sure Ontario remains the best place to live, work and raise a family.

I’m sure everyone here is aware of the needless tragedies that can result from impaired driving. Many of us have been impacted by these tragedies personally and know somebody who has been impacted. Drugs and alcohol contribute to at least one in three deaths on Ontario roads. In 2022, over 20,000 Ontarians had their licences suspended for impaired driving. That’s one driver for every 26 minutes. That is simply unacceptable. Worse, a roadside survey conducted by the ministry found that one in five drivers who provided breath or oral samples tested positive for drugs, alcohol or both.

The unfortunate thing is that while most Ontarians follow the rules—they don’t get behind the wheel while impaired and they value the safety of those they share the road with—even one impaired driver on our roads is one too many. These people are accidents waiting to happen. They are putting lives at risk, jeopardizing the safety of everyone on our roads and, as a father, and many in this House who have children—we can’t imagine the unbearable pain so many parents, siblings, friends and family have suffered when their loved ones didn’t make it home. This needs to end now.

That is why, if the Safer Roads and Communities Act passes, we would introduce a lifetime suspension for anyone convicted of impaired driving causing death. If you kill someone because you choose to drive impaired, you will lose your privilege to drive in the province of Ontario for life. It’s as simple as that. Those who lost their lives never get a second chance; these drivers don’t deserve one either. Getting behind the wheel under the influence is a reckless decision, and we’re sending a clear message that it’s never worth it.

Stakeholders across the province have voiced their support for this legislation, like the heroes at Mothers Against Drunk Driving, an organization at the forefront of the battle against impaired driving. Steve Sullivan, the CEO of MADD Canada, and Carolyn Swinson of MADD Toronto have experienced first-hand the tragedies that result from impaired driving. Having their lives torn apart by the reckless choices of impaired drivers, they have passionately advocated for the need for a tougher stance.

We agree, because frankly, there’s always a safer option than driving impaired, whether it’s calling a ride, walking, taking transit or just simply waiting it out—no event, no urgency is worth getting behind the wheel and risking lives across this province while being impaired. And every one of these situations can be avoided.

For too long, Carolyn and Steve have had to fight to make their voices heard. Well, our government is listening. We have a responsibility to do whatever we can to ensure Ontarians get home safely to their families each night. Impaired driving isn’t a temporary lapse in judgment, it’s a choice with repercussions that last a lifetime.

The lifetime licence suspension is just one of the tools we’re using to crack down on impaired driving. Another one is ignition interlock devices. Currently, convicted impaired drivers who meet certain eligibility requirements can voluntarily install an ignition interlock device in their vehicle—doing this could reduce their licence suspension—that means they’re not required to install an ignition interlock. This also means many drivers opting for a longer licence suspension so they can eventually get back on the road without ever using an ignition interlock in their car.

If someone is choosing to go without driving rather than using an interlock, there can only be a few reasons I can think of as to why. That loophole must end. That’s why our government plans to introduce regulations that will require anyone convicted of impaired driving to install an ignition interlock for a prescribed length of time when their licence is reinstated.

Our government believes there should be no option to bypass an ignition interlock, giving abusers of alcohol the ability to knowingly put lives of other people in danger. What kind of message does that send? We need to do everything we can to stop drivers from repeating history. Ignition interlock devices ensure that those convicted of impaired driving are closely monitored and given time to rehabilitate. When you choose to put other people’s lives at risk with your recklessness, you should have to prove you deserve your driving privileges back.

Our government is also proposing a zero-tolerance condition for anyone convicted of impaired driving. This would apply to anyone found with the presence of alcohol or drugs in their system and would begin after a driver completes their mandatory ignition interlock period.

I’d like to take a moment to reflect on a tragedy that struck my own community of Brampton, and a father who was forced to endure what no parent should ever experience. His 15-year-old daughter was walking to celebrate her birthday on what would have been an ordinary Friday night; tragically, another impaired driver struck another vehicle, which then spun onto the sidewalk, hitting her. Some might call this an accident, but the fact is, it wasn’t. The driver chose to get in that vehicle while under the influence and a young girl paid for it with her life.

That night, this loving father was expecting the joy of sharing cake with his daughter, not the devastation of police officers at his door with this unimaginable news. As he said himself, “She was the light of my life. I just don’t understand why my baby is gone.” We owe it to this father and all others impacted by impaired driving to say enough is enough.

If the Safer Roads and Communities Act passes, drivers will face longer roadside suspensions for first- and second-time drug-and-alcohol-related offences. These suspensions will apply to drivers who perform poorly on field sobriety tests or have a blood-alcohol concentration above the legal limits. It would also apply to young and novice drivers who violate their zero-tolerance conditions.

Currently, drivers face a three-day roadside licence suspension for their first occurrence and a seven-day suspension for their second occurrence, but that’s not deterring some people. The Safer Roads and Communities Act would give roadside licence suspensions more teeth. Drivers would receive a seven-day roadside suspension for their first drug- or alcohol-related offence and a 14-day suspension for their second, because they only work if they’re strong enough to persuade people away from making the wrong choice.

Recognizing the impact of addiction, drivers would also be required to complete a remedial education course after their first offence and enter a treatment program after their second. Escalating penalties are a key component of our effort to curb impaired driving—if you get caught making the same mistake again, you’ll face a longer suspension.

Right now, there’s some inconsistency going regarding when you’ll get a clean slate. That’s because the look-back periods for impaired driving penalties aren’t all the same. Currently, licence suspensions and administrative monetary penalties have a five-year look-back period; if you commit the same offence within that same five-year period, you’ll face a steeper penalty the second time. But ignition interlock and remedial education requirements have a 10-year look-back period. The Safer Roads and Communities Act, if passed, would bring all look-back periods to the duration of 10 years.

We need to show impaired drivers that the government has a long memory, especially when it comes to putting innocent lives at risk. Get behind the wheel impaired and you’ll have to wait an entire decade before the slate is wiped clean, if at all.

None of our work to make roads safer could be done without our police officers. We rely on our police officers across the province to enforce the rules on the road, and we need to support them with every tool available to stop impaired driving. The Safer Roads and Communities Act, if passed, would amend the Highway Traffic Act to clarify that police can stop drivers for sobriety testing on or off the highway. Police have always had that authority, but we want to make it crystal clear, because there should be nowhere to run when you’re driving impaired, and you shouldn’t be able to avoid charges on a technicality.

If you see flashing lights coming, your time is up and you’re going to face the consequences of your actions. Road safety stakeholders across the province are expressing their support for this bill and their fight, and our collective fight, against impaired driving.

Michael Sanderson, president of the Ontario Association of Paramedics Chiefs, says that introducing tougher penalties for all forms of impaired driving will save lives.

Anne Leonard, president of Arrive Alive Drive Sober, has voiced her support for mandatory ignition interlock requirements for all convicted impaired drivers.

Scott Butler, the executive director of Good Roads—an association dedicated to improving roads and road safety in Ontario—says that strong penalties act as strong deterrents.

This legislation is about more than getting tough on impaired drivers. It’s about saving lives, and safety will always remain the number one priority for this government.

As we all know, auto theft has also become a plague across this province. In Ontario, a car is stolen almost every 14 minutes. Auto theft has increased by 72% since 2021. In Peel region, motor vehicle theft increased by a staggering 187% between 2019 and 2023. Stolen cars are being shipped to other countries and sold on the black market, and the people stealing the cars aren’t afraid of the consequences. And it’s not just theft; cowardly criminals are using weapons to carjack Ontarians, leaving the impacted victims, their families and their communities traumatized. In Toronto alone, violent carjackings rose by 78% after the pandemic.

This has gone far beyond just a road safety issue or a vehicle issue. This is a full-fledged public safety epidemic, and it’s clear more must be done. That is why, if the Safer Roads and Communities Act passes, anyone convicted of motor vehicle theft under the Criminal Code would have their driver’s licence suspended. First-time offenders would receive a 10-year suspension, second-time offenders would receive a 15-year suspension and third-time offenders would face a lifetime suspension for their driver’s licence.

To crack down on car thieves, we need to do everything in our power to deter would-be criminals. We continue to call on the federal government to reform bail policies and get tougher on crime so these criminals aren’t out on our streets terrorizing your communities. But we will do everything within the jurisdiction and scope of the provincial government to deter these car thieves and car thefts. Thanks to many of our efforts, and the hard work of our policing partners across the province, we’ve seen so far this year auto theft decrease by 16%.

We’re ready to take our efforts to the next level by passing this legislation. No one in the province deserves to be held up at gunpoint and told to hand over their car keys, or to live in fear of what might happen to them when getting behind the wheel or getting into their vehicle. Tougher penalties would make would-be car thieves think twice.

But don’t just take our word for it. Just ask auto industry and stakeholders across the province. The Motor Vehicle Retailers of Ontario, whose members includes more than 1,000 auto retailers, have expressed their support for a lifetime ban for those who have been convicted of auto theft for the third time.

We need to get tough on the criminals. To date, the penalties for stealing cars haven’t been strong enough. Brian Kingston, president and CEO of the Canadian Vehicle Manufacturers’ Association, says that the profits currently generated from auto theft outweigh the risks for thieves. I’m proud to say that in Ontario, we’re doing everything possible to change that equation, and we’ll continue to call on the federal government to also help us in our fight against violent carjackings and auto theft and implement much-needed bail reform.

In 2021, our government introduced legislation that increased licence suspensions and vehicle impoundments for stunt driving, street racing and aggressive driving. Courts now have the discretion to suspend a convicted stunt driver’s licence, but minimum suspensions aren’t applied in all cases. That is just simply not good enough. If our Safer Roads and Communities Act passes, it would amend the Highway Traffic Act to ensure that anyone convicted of stunt driving faces a mandatory minimum licence suspension.

Stunt drivers would face a one-year suspension for their first conviction, a three-year suspension for their second conviction and a possible lifetime for their third. We can’t expect these drivers to take road safety seriously without strong sanctions. We know stunt driving kills. Anyone thoughtless enough to engage in it should pay the price.

As the times change, the province has a duty to keep pace with new issues that we’re facing on our roads. We’ve seen a rapid increase of e-bikes on Ontario’s roads. Some of these bikes are larger and faster than other ones, bringing new challenges to road safety. While legally they are capped at 32 kilometres per hour, in practice, many are built to look like e-bikes and drive much, much faster, putting the rider and any cyclists or pedestrians in their path at risk.

There’s no one-size-fits-all approach for regulating e-bikes in Ontario, and the Safer Roads and Communities Act aims to address that issue. If the Safer Roads and Communities Act passes, it would create regulation-making powers within the Highway Traffic Act to categorize e-bikes into distinct classes. Each class would have its own safety requirements, such as speed and weight limits, as well as operator requirements, such as minimum ages for drivers and passengers. This is an important step forward towards ensuring safer roads for all Ontarians no matter how they travel.

To make our roads safer, we must address all risks that drivers encounter. Increasingly, that includes commercial vehicles. Large trucks are involved in many fatalities in our province. That is why, last year, we began an initiative to increase commercial vehicle enforcement in northern Ontario. Since this has begun, MTO officers have conducted 6,594 inspections and laid 5,298 charges, including 912 for speeding.

Earlier this year, we opened a $30-million commercial vehicle inspection station on the Trans-Canada Highway near Thunder Bay, and we’ve continued to make improvements to inspection stations across our province to ensure we’re doing everything in our power to enhance commercial vehicle safety as we carry out our work to build a better Ontario.

We are ramping up efforts to take unsafe trucks off the roads, and we’re saving lives. We have plans to do even more to enhance commercial vehicle safety if the Safer Roads and Communities Act passes.

Transportation enforcement officers are vital to keeping our roadways safe, and we need to give them the support they need to get the job done. The Safer Roads and Communities Act would strengthen transportation enforcement officers’ ability to carry out the Ministry of Transportation’s commercial vehicle enforcement program. If the bill passes, transportation enforcement officers would be permitted to exceed posted speed limits for enforcement purposes, with traffic required to move over for MTO vehicles when their lights and signals are flashing.

And officers would have the authority to seize fraudulent and suspended drivers’ licences. These measures would build on the success we’ve achieved to date by strengthening commercial vehicle enforcement across the province.

As I’ve mentioned, Ontario roads have been ranked some of the safest in North America, but we always have a responsibility to do better and to do more. As our population continues to grow, so does our responsibility to keep our roads safe for the millions of people who call this province home. With more people using our roads today than ever, the need to protect drivers has never been greater. We owe it to all the people who have helped make Ontario such a great place to live, work and raise a family.

The Safer Roads and Communities Act captures our vision for the future and a safer Ontario for everyone. As the House considers the merits of the Safer Roads and Communities Act, I would encourage everyone to think about what’s at stake here—lives are at stake. By introducing some of the stiffest penalties in Canada for impaired driving, motor vehicle theft and stunt driving, we’re coming down hard on threats to public safety. By laying the groundwork to categorize e-bikes into distinct classes, we are showing Ontarians that we can adapt quickly to evolving safety needs.

And by enhancing transportation enforcement officers’ ability to carry out commercial vehicle enforcements, we’re building on our success at improving commercial vehicle safety across our province, and we’re helping to ensure a brighter future for all Ontarians.

Madam Speaker, I hope that the members opposite have had a chance to look at the piece of legislation and consider supporting tougher measures on impaired drivers, tougher measures on those convicted of auto theft and join this government in our continuous commitment to keeping our roads safer in all parts of this province. That also includes building more roads, building more highways, like the 413, the Bradford Bypass, the Garden City Skyway bridge, and ensuring that we keep this province moving. As we see congestion at an all-time high, we have a duty to build, and that’s why we continue to build the largest public transit expansion in the history of North America.

The Acting Speaker (M me Lucille Collard): Further debate?

Ms. Jennifer K. French: I’m pleased to be able to stand in this place as the official opposition critic for infrastructure, transportation and highways to discuss the Safer Roads and Communities Act, which has already been through this House, to committee and back. Very quickly, actually—this government moved this bill quite dramatically with another bill, through time allocation, and here we are. I’m glad to be able to add what I hope are thoughtful comments in a limited amount of time, which is disappointing as critic, to not have that full hour to share what we heard at committee with folks.

This bill accomplishes a few things but certainly not enough, as we’re used to seeing. I’ll start by saying the rise in auto thefts that we’re all concerned about has been a nightmare for communities across the province, especially in the GTA. But we need to see real solutions to prevent auto theft, like cracking down on re-VINing stolen cars, working with manufacturers on tracking technology and more solutions. Policies like what we see here are fine, but there aren’t deterrents in this bill. They’re after-the-crime measures in terms of penalties, but how are we protecting Ontarians in the first place?

The Conservatives on one hand are claiming to bring the toughest penalties against impaired drivers, but they’re downgrading DUI charges in court. Ontarians need a government that can deliver the promises they make, not one that’s just providing lip service.

And I’ll say, as someone who has served as the critic for transportation and highways for a while now, this government speeds through the process and has created awkward legislation, like the e-bike sections of the MOMS Act. And the MOMS Act—the Moving Ontarians More Safely Act, or whatever it was—was a tangled mess in a lot of respects, which we told them it was because that’s what we were hearing from e-bike users. And yet, here we are, with sections of the MOMS Act that have never actually been proclaimed. Provisions in that act haven’t been proclaimed, but in this act, they’re being repealed.

They’re still doing consultations on e-bike classifications because they couldn’t get it right before. And, granted, it’s worth taking the time to have those consultations, but why the rush before when they knew it was wrong, as it had been flagged by the entire cycling community?

Much of this bill deals with penalty and punishment after the crime, and nowhere do we see preventative measures to keep road users and drivers safe, like the NDP has put forward with Bill 15—which is my bill, more on that later, Speaker—and Bill 40, a vulnerable road users’ act: Things that are not only preventative but have to do with the actual vulnerable road users. Certainly this government doesn’t ever consider them, or hasn’t in my lifetime in this place.

The government has failed to make use of more effective measures to crack down on impaired driving and car theft, such as properly staffing courts to avoid backlogs instead of routinely allowing drunk drivers to plead down to lesser charges. That’s something we’ve raised in the House, and we don’t see a solution. Or they could be verifying or investigating VINs to make sure that stolen cars aren’t registered with fake VINs—again, Speaker, stay tuned for more on that.

Let’s start out with e-bikes and potential classification. Right now, we’re in the “just trust us” phase of this government’s legislation. They’re looking to change the language, possibly increasing red tape for e-bike users, unfortunately; we don’t know. Bill 197 removes the definition of “power-assisted bicycle” from the Highway Traffic Act, which means e-bikes will now fall under the definition of “motor-assisted bicycle,” with vehicles like mopeds, which require class M licences, plates and insurance. We’re not sure if the government is intending to regulate all e-bikes similarly to mopeds.

We would love to know if the government—we had tried during committee to get the government to provide more details about its plans for new e-bike regulations.

Speaker, I think all of us—anybody using the roads in any capacity has seen e-bikes and changing active transportation methods. Some e-bikes look like bicycles—kind of that bicycle-style, with maybe a little bit of extra pedal assist. Some of us are getting older. I look forward to adding that extra oomph when I need it. Some of them are more of a throttle assist—think of a moped—almost like a motorcycle.

I think everybody recognizes there are challenges on the road, and we want people to be safe. We heard that from all presenters and all sides at committee. But what the government is going to do is yet to be determined. Some of the things that we had heard at committee were about the provisions that were never proclaimed from the Moving Ontarians More Safely Act. They were never proclaimed. Some of them were good, as we heard in committee, and now here we are, and we’re seeing them repealed. But we don’t know if those same provisions that are being repealed but hadn’t been proclaimed but apparently were good are carrying forward in the next

chapter in the regulations—which, of course, we have no idea what they’re planning to do.

Jamie Stuckless came to the committee and let us know that Ontario is the only jurisdiction that has the minimum age requirement on passengers, that the 2021 MOMS Act proposed to repeal the age restrictions, but again, those provisions aren’t going to happen now at all. So she had questions about the age restrictions.

Also, motor-assisted bicycles are not allowed to take passengers. Remember when I said “pedal assist” or that bicycle-style e-bike? The government is now classifying them all as motor-assisted bicycles, so all as mopeds. So the breakdown of which ones are going to be considered bicycles versus motorcycle-style—we don’t know. And people are concerned, because a lot of people have these e-bikes, and now they’re like, “Am I going to need a class M licence? Do I need plates and insurance? Where is that appropriate? Can I still put my duckling in the seat in the back? No? Yes? Is that illegal?” Again, we have no answers to those questions.

Here’s part of a letter from Cycle Toronto. They have written regarding this bill, “It remains unclear how the removal of the ‘power-assisted’ definition for pedal-assist e-bikes will help ultimately create greater consumer and industry clarity. Not understanding how these subsequent categorizations will proceed does give us pause on endorsing this direction.”

We tried to remove this

section from the bill until we had clarity, but of course, that was an amendment that the government wasn’t interested in entertaining.

Something else that Cycle Toronto had said regarding passengers, “We do think it is essential that the current ban on child e-bike passengers be removed. And as this moves forward, we hope the province will align its categorizations with neighbouring jurisdictions to minimize confusion. We think it essential that the province and HTA continue to treat a category of pedal-assist e-bikes and e-cargo bikes (what might be called class 1 and 2 bikes) just like conventional bicycles.” That’s from Cycle Toronto.

I’ll also add, and I know I can’t show a prop, but the members of the committee had the opportunity to see photos of smiling, happy e-bike users with their kidlets in the back or kidlets in a purpose-built—I don’t think that’s quite the right term—seat that’s made for them that are now going to be considered problematic. These are rear passenger seats on an e-bike. Currently, that would be illegal in Ontario. Jamie Stuckless raised that issue for us and showed us how absurd it would be.

I mean, those are lovely, happy, smiling families that are actively transporting their kids around the community, and I hope the government isn’t seeking to keep them illegal—we’ll have to wait for regulations.

Here is a submission from Mr. Liam Roach, who wrote to us, further to that concern:

“I have concerns about the language surrounding the proposed changes to the HTA sec 38(2) ‘No person who is the owner or is in possession or control of a motor-assisted bicycle shall permit a person who is under the age of 16 years to ride on, drive or operate the motor-assisted bicycle on a highway.’

“In particular ‘no person under 16 shall ride on’ would prevent any e-bike to be used for the transportation of children, even within purpose-designed child seats or child carriers.

“As such, I recommend the language of the proposed bill language be modified to explicitly allow the carrying of children within purpose-built carrying systems (or words to that effect). Additional speed or power limits could be part of this language if there are any safety concerns.” That was submitted by Mr. Liam Roach.

These are common-sense things, I would say. But again, without knowing the government’s intention, without having a better understanding of how they’re choosing to classify—without any of that, it’s “just trust us.” And, Speaker, I don’t trust them. I lived through the MOMS Act; that was a mess. I was not wrong, but you would think that they thought I had just lost my marbles. And yet hundreds of people had flagged the challenges, and they willfully ignored them.

As I said, the government has been known to speed through the process. They’ve created awkward legislation in the past. We heard from hundreds of people at that time with Bill 282, but Bill 197 removes the definition of “power-assisted bicycle,” which means that all e-bikes will now fall under the definition of “motor-assisted bicycle.” We’re hoping that the government makes sure not to create red tape for e-bike users.

We’ve talked a lot in this House about VINs. We’ve talked a lot about car theft. I have been raising the issue ad nauseam about the need to protect the VIN registry and ensure that stolen vehicles can’t just get legitimized through our VIN registry, be issued a fraudulent VIN and then drive off into the sunset. Ontario’s become an ATM for car thieves. It is shocking to me. And, Speaker, fun fact: As I ask questions about just how vulnerable the system is, I must be right because no government member has answered back and proven me wrong.

So all of these questions that I’m asking about how it could be, in the event of a fraudulent VIN trying to get into the system, that there aren’t flags, that the government doesn’t inspect or investigate any of them, that we have cloned, duplicated VINs all over the province—and I’m going to say—the government knows this—the MTO and the government know how bad the problem is, and they’re choosing not to fix it. If I’m wrong, I want one of them to tell me, because I think I’m on to something, because they’re so quiet, and normally, they don’t do quiet.

Speaker, I want to talk about VINs and car theft. This bill hopes to deter car thieves by threatening longer licence suspensions, but it doesn’t address this government’s failure to verify vehicle identification numbers. They allow stolen vehicles to be registered with fake VINs. After-the-crime penalties are important, but people are experiencing violence and violation with auto theft, and what we need to also focus on—with the after-the-crime penalties being one part—the protective measures, the prevention side.

There have been reported stories of folks who have bought stolen vehicles unknowingly from dealerships. They can’t get stolen vehicles insured. They might not find that out until they’re in a collision. People who didn’t intend to buy a stolen vehicle don’t have a clear path forward for remedy. The dealerships might take them back. Are they going to take the responsibility for having sold unknowingly a stolen vehicle? Because these vehicles are in our system, folks.

What we see in this bill we hope will serve as deterrents, but as car thieves are unlikely to be deterred by penalties as long as the potential for significant financial reward remains so clear, I don’t know how effective this is going to be. If a would-be car thief is going to lose their licence or get in trouble but they can climb the ladder of organized crime, I don’t know how they’re going to feel about, “Uh-oh, I’m getting my licence suspended”—they’re already stealing cars. They may drive without a licence; they might already be doing that. So not to diminish this, but it can’t be the only measure. That is not preventative, folks.

I want to get back to VIN fraud. VIN fraud is rampant. We don’t have a VIN verification system, other provinces do—I’ve read about that in this House in an

article from the Star. But why don’t we have a VIN verification system? Seriously, none. At committee when I raised this, the parliamentary assistant—who was actually a breath of fresh air; I thought that he gave real answers, but I don’t think he was entirely correct on all of this stuff. But he did try to keep talking about the feds. Well, that’s an important part of the conversation, but we have a provincial responsibility and a provincial lane that we could stay in a little bit and make things better. So we are provincial; I want to stay in our lane and own up to our responsibility. There’s defiance with either the minister or the ministry; they are not fixing this.

I have no idea how many vehicles are registered in the province every year. Anybody? Half a million? A million? I don’t know—a lot, I imagine, and zero VINs are double-checked or investigated or verified, zero. If I’m wrong, prove me wrong. Zero problematic VINs are verified or investigated. How many cars currently are registered in the province that have duplicated or cloned VINs? How many are there? Are there five? Are there 100? Are there 50,000? Or 100,000? Do you know? And why don’t you know? Or do you know and you’re not fixing it?

Anyway, I don’t understand why on earth this government would keep a broken drive-through lane for criminals so lucrative. For the government members that might think I’m incorrect, then I challenge you, because I think I’m right. Ask your minister and his team. I think that they are wilfully choosing to ignore this problem. They’re choosing to allow re-VINing because I think they know that they are pretending that it isn’t happening. If you think I’m wrong, prove it. P.S. You won’t be able to.

We heard from other people at committee. We heard from Aviva Canada. They’re the second-largest casualty insurer in Canada. They said that they insure about 900,000 cars. They’re focused on road safety. They came to speak in support of Bill 197, but in terms of the auto theft provisions, however, they did have suggestions—as I do, as many of us do—on how to make things better. They highlighted that auto theft is growing, that 2023 was a record year for auto theft and Aviva paid out $800 million, and 77% of those cases were in Ontario in the GTA. They raised that the cost of these thefts is growing.

They talked about re-VINed vehicles being resold or mis-sold. They said that in 2019 these were few and far between, and then now we’re in such a different situation. They’ve seen an increase in fraudulent claims.

The government members heard from the insurance industry—but they have been; they’ve been hearing from former law enforcement, they’ve been hearing from current law enforcement. Back to the VIN: Why aren’t they doing anything that is provincial responsibility in terms of prevention, keeping those fraudulent VINs from getting into our registry, getting on our roads?

Speaker, I’ll stay in the vein of auto theft here. The transportation enforcement officers who do important work on our roads have been highlighted in this bill. There is a provision in this bill about speeds that they’re allowed to drive as needed. But that is not enough when it comes to the transportation officers and the work that they do. We need to be better supporting them. We need to pay them—we need to pay them to keep them. The biggest thing that can be done is actually pay the people who we are bringing to the job, and they’re not staying.

They’re getting training—I think it costs something like $165,000 to bring someone in and train them. But then they’re leaving to go to other jobs, other government jobs, other regulatory officer positions that pay so much more. So we need to pay them to keep them. They come in at $82,000, they get their training program, but then the Ministry of Labour might train them as MOL and hire them at $102,000 per year. It’s a lot of money to train them. They want to do the job; let’s pay them to keep them.

I started by saying I wanted to connect this to auto theft. At Gananoque, which is the eastern-most truck inspection station in the province, they’ve had 26 stolen vehicles come through their inspection station. Their enforcement there at Gananoque is going to be going 24/7. They are increasingly interacting with criminal elements and, in the last eight months in Gananoque, they said they have recovered 26 stolen vehicles. That’s a lot.

It’s changing all over the province. It’s not just Gananoque. Because if they want to avoid Gananoque that’s now going to be going 24/7, they can drive way out of their way, because stolen vehicles are worth it. They go up north. When we have truck inspection stations that I have been asking about in terms of their repair, in terms of their usability—I did find out at committee from the ministry that some of them are not in the best state of repair. There is calibration to be done; some of the scales and truck inspection stations need work. Well, then get on it.

This government wants to light $48 million on fire to rip out bike lanes but they can’t pay transportation enforcement officers, the front line in the fight against auto theft, or make sure that we have the tools. They’re building shiny new stations, but with this business model, they’re not even going to be able to open it or run it. The government has problems to solve when it comes to the transportation enforcement officers. We have a lot of work that could and should be done on the roads, and this government knows what it is, and they need to do better.

This bill talks about impaired driving. Many impaired drivers can avoid criminal convictions thanks to this government’s policy that allows drivers to plead guilty to lesser, non-criminal charges. That policy was put in place during the pandemic in an effort to relieve court backlogs. The policy is still in place, and that results in even more serious criminal cases being tossed out due to unconstitutional delays.

So how effective will the change that we see in this bill about higher penalties for impaired driving—which is good and we support—be when the government has a policy allowing impaired drivers to plead down to non-criminal offences under the Highway Traffic Act, avoiding criminal convictions?

We heard from Good Roads that came to talk to us at committee. They reminded us of Vision Zero. They reminded us that this was another opportunity to focus on vulnerable road users. Vulnerable road users are not limited to cyclists or pedestrians or folks in wheelchairs who would use the bike lanes, it’s also officers at the side of the road, construction workers—people who utilize our roads without the protection of a steel cage like a car driver.

So, again, we had brought forward proposed amendments, part of the member from Ottawa Centre’s bill, the Moving Ontarians More Safely Act, which is vulnerable road user legislation. We tried to move that, and the government, of course, wasn’t interested.

My bill—I had reintroduced this bill a few times, but it is the Fairness for Road Users Act (Contraventions Causing Death), which would allow a meaningful change for families across the province, who not only have lost a loved one or had someone suffer significant, catastrophic injury, but then also have the additional injury and insult of a maximum $500 fine in the event of terrible things happening. That’s what is currently on the books. So my bill, you would think, would fit with this government’s big-penalty push about more fair penalties, and yet it is stuck in limbo.

This is a bill that has important measures but certainly doesn’t have that prevention side, the protective side. This was a real opportunity for the government to do better to ensure that our roads in Ontario are far safer.

The Acting Speaker (M me Lucille Collard): Further debate?

Mr. John Fraser: It’s a pleasure to speak to Bill 197. I want to commend the member for Oshawa. She really hit the nail on the head, which is that so much in this bill is good, but it’s really performative. It’s the government, probably because they want to call an election, to be seen to be doing something about a serious issue. Well, if you were serious about it, then you would do something about the VIN duplications: that you would manage it, that you would measure it, that you’d be able to answer the questions that the member from Oshawa asked.

When we’re trying to correct problems like auto theft—and it’s a serious problem; I had a neighbour who has lost two cars. I bought a Club for my car even though it’s eight years old, because I know it can be stolen and somebody wants the parts. You can’t just say, “We’re going to do these measures and suspend people or give tougher penalties for stealing a car or driving suspensions.” I’m not sure that’s going to stop people. It sounds great. It sounds really good. It will look good on a brochure, all of this stuff. But are you actually getting at the root of the problem?

Are you actually trying to manage what’s happening with car theft in Ontario and the problems that we have with the VIN verification system? That’s the hard stuff.

The government is good at the easy stuff and talking about the stuff that you’re going to do, and it’s wonderful and things are great and we’re going to have tougher penalties and it’s going to be so much better. Well, on auto theft, you’re not actually doing the thing that needs to be done and you’re not even talking about it because it’s a hard thing to do.

It’s easy to say the easy stuff. It’s easy to say, “We’re going to suspend their licences longer,” but we’re not going to do a damn thing about the root of the problem: the VIN verification system.

We’ll be supporting this bill. I support the measures for driving suspensions for impaired drivers causing death; I think we’re all for that. But if you want to get at the root of auto theft, you’ve got to do something about the VIN verification system. You’ve got to actually measure it. You’ve got to be able to answer the questions that the member from Oshawa asked, that all of us ask. That’s what our constituents expect from us.

Thank you very much, Speaker. It’s a pleasure to speak to Bill 197.

The Acting Speaker (M me Lucille Collard): Further debate?

Pursuant to the order of the House dated October 29, 2024, I am now required to put the question.

Mr. Sarkaria has moved third reading of Bill 197,

An Act to amend the Highway Traffic Act.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? I declare the motion carried.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

The Acting Speaker (M me Lucille Collard): Orders of the day? I recognize the associate minister.

Hon. Trevor Jones: Good morning. There’s no further business.

The Acting Speaker (M me Lucille Collard): This House stands in recess until 10:15.

The House recessed from 0956 to 1015.

Members’ Statements

Fenelon Falls and District Lions Club

Ms. Laurie Scott: It’s my pleasure to rise in the House to recognize the 50th charter anniversary of the Fenelon Falls and District Lions Club. Earlier this month, we celebrated together at a luncheon at the Royal Canadian Legion in Fenelon Falls, which paid homage to the history and impact of the Lions. The Fenelon Falls Lions truly live up to the motto, “We Serve.” Since the Fenelon Lions Club was chartered in 1974, their members have done vital work for uplifting our community.

I am so proud of the leadership that they have displayed through their work at local and international levels, from their annual fundraising for the Salvation Army during the holidays to organizing seniors’ teas and gift receptions at Fenelon Court long-term care, to supporting Camp Kirk’s unique programming for children and youth with special needs, to supporting the Walk for Dog Guides for the blind—and these are just a few of the accomplishments that they have. They are part of what makes Fenelon Falls the great place that it is.

Thanks to the current president of the Fenelon Falls Lions Club, Jim Bellwood, for his strong vision and following his family’s tradition in the Lions.

Congratulations to Lloyd McIntyre for receiving a lifetime membership and Deb McIntyre for the Melvin Jones Fellowship award.

I want to recognize the dedication of two founding members that were there, William Barber and Kenneth Le Masurier, for their continuous service even today. And thank you to every Lion who has volunteered over the past 50 years. I cannot wait to see what the next 50 bring.

Community Care of St. Catharines and Thorold Great Holiday Food Drive

Mrs. Jennifer (Jennie) Stevens: Last week, I spoke about food security in St. Catharines, and I wanted to continue bringing awareness to the work that our local food banks and food providers do to make sure families, children, students and seniors are fed each and every day.

Every year, Community Care of St. Catharines and Thorold hosts their Great Holiday Food Drive, collecting non-perishable food donations through local grocery stores, schools and individual drop-offs. Every year, food items, hygiene products, winter coats and monetary donations are donated to this worthy cause in support of local residents and families who need them the most. In the past, this event has raised over $300,000 in monetary donations alone.

This year is a special one, with Community Care celebrating 20 years of this incredible event. What started in 2004 in response to local needs, this event has grown into a large-scale donation drive that now helps Community Care respond to the surges in food bank use we have seen in the last year.

In October, this organization filled 13,383 tummies, a substantial increase, though, from almost 9,000 people who used the food bank program in October 2023.

On December 13, I will be making a donation to the Great Holiday Food Drive, and I urge everyone listening who is financially able to also make a much-needed donation to a local provider of your choice in your communities.

Special care nursery

Ms. Donna Skelly: It is my pleasure to rise this morning to discuss an exciting announcement that took place last week at St. Joseph’s Healthcare Hamilton.

Alongside my colleagues Minister Jones and Minister Lumsden, we visited the hospital to share a capital funding announcement that will support the redevelopment of the special care nursery. The special care nursery provides neonatal intensive care to infants and their families across southwestern Ontario. The redevelopment will ensure that newborns and their families have better access to specialized neonatal intensive care and family-centred birthing supports.

This will include enhanced infection prevention and control, more private rooms, capability to accommodate state-of-the-art design standards, a designated room to store pumped or donated milk and other supports tailored to the early developmental needs of infants. This is welcome news for the city of Hamilton and all staff and patients at St. Joe’s Healthcare.

While there, we had the opportunity to tour the current neonatal intensive care unit and to meet the beautiful newborns and their families, as well as the amazing doctors and nurses who shared their excitement and gratitude for all of this funding.

Mr. Speaker, I would also like to thank St. Joseph’s Healthcare Hamilton president, Mike Heenan, and all staff for their leadership and commitment to providing exceptional care for all who enter the hospital.

Homelessness

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Last week—last Friday—10 people in their seventies and eighties took refuge at the Out of the Cold program at Eastminster church in my riding. Some were in wheelchairs, others had major mobility issues. East End United reports that they had a full house that night, 40 people sleeping in the pews. They set a record for Out of the Cold meals. They served 160 dinners. For context, last year, the next-highest was around 130 meals—and that was much later in the season, not week 3.

Prior to the pandemic, there were 16 Out of the Cold programs offering overnight covering every day of the week. Now there are only three: First Interfaith on Tuesdays, Yorkminster Baptist on Wednesdays, East End United on Fridays. City shelters were already regularly turning away 200 people nightly over the summer, and this number doesn’t capture the people who don’t get through on the phones or those who feel the shelter system is too unsafe for them to use.

People in their seventies and eighties in wheelchairs don’t go to sleep in a church overnight because they have a place to live. In this Conservative Ontario, there are many seniors now who are living in desperate situations, including living on the streets.

Hunger for the homeless, homelessness for seniors: That’s the government’s legacy. It’s a shameful legacy.

Remembrance Day

Ms. Effie J. Triantafilopoulos: Last week, we gathered as a nation to observe Remembrance Day, a day that transcends time, reminding us of the profound sacrifices made by Canadian soldiers. Over 120,000 brave Canadians laid down their lives, choosing to protect freedom and peace for future generations. Their courage and sacrifice are woven into our history, a legacy that we will forever be bound to honour.

This year, on the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the illegal invasion and occupation of Cyprus by Türkiye, I had the privilege to honour our Canadian peacekeepers, 25,000 of whom have served in Cyprus over the years. Standing in the United Nations buffer zone is a monument dedicated to the 28 Canadians who lost their lives serving there. It was a stark reminder of the vital role Canadians continue to play far beyond our borders to mediate peace in places of conflict.

We met with Major John Rice and Lieutenant Josh Carroll, who served with the United Nations Peacekeeping forces. I presented them with a Canadian flag, which now proudly flies beside the monument dedicated to those fallen peacekeepers. That flag is a living symbol, a reminder that even on foreign soil, the memory of our Canadian soldiers is held in reverence.

May we always remember their sacrifice and let their legacy guide us in our pursuit of peace and freedom. Lest we forget.

Cost of living

Miss Monique Taylor: Today, I rise to amplify the ever-growing struggle of Ontarians trying to afford their day-to-day and provide for their families.

It is November, and the holiday season is fast approaching—for many a time to enjoy with family, friends and community. It was not long ago we had hope, we had happiness and we had the money to support this and so much more. Our monthly bills could be covered by our income, food was always in the fridge and we could save for emergencies. We thrived and we had the means to help others thrive too. The cost of living is the amount a person needs to spend to cover basic expenses, such as housing, food, taxes, health and personal care. In Hamilton Mountain, these expenses are becoming complex decisions and, for many, becoming harder and harder to cover each month.

Living paycheque to paycheque has taken on a new meaning. Many are now living bill to bill, paying rent or mortgage payments with nothing much left when the housing is paid. Food and health care have become an afterthought.

This is the reality for so many. We hear from middle-income families who are trying to stretch a dollar to provide for their families and communities the way they have in past years. When cost of living is out of reach, quality of life feels next to impossible. We must all work together to solve this crisis, stop legislated poverty and get back to hope and happiness.

Erin Huxley / Lansdowne Children’s Centre

Mr. Will Bouma: I am pleased to rise today to acknowledge a talented author from the Brantford–Brant community, Erin Huxley. Erin celebrated the launch of her first book, Harmony Woods: Penny and Freddy Search High and Low, with a live book reading, book signing and meet-and-greet last month.

This wonderful event also served as a fundraiser in support of Lansdowne Children’s Centre. I have had the privilege of working closely with Lansdowne Children’s Centre and it excels in providing personalized care for children with developmental, physical or communications challenges. Lansdowne is a pillar of the Brantford–Brant community and beyond that supports families through holistic, high-quality programs.

Harmony Woods emphasizes the importance of musical education in early childhood development, a cause that Lansdowne passionately advocates for. Harmony Woods also stands out among children’s books as it combines an engaging story with educational elements, emphasizing themes like curiosity, teamwork and discovery, which makes it both fun and meaningful for young readers.

I am proud to represent the vibrant Brantford–Brant community and its talented artists and educators, like Erin Huxley. It is incredible to see gifted authors come together with specialists at the forefront of child care in our province to ensure that the books kids read will be positive influences for their entire lives. Thank you, Erin. I hope that this is just your first publication of many.

Taxation

Mr. John Fraser: Six years ago, the Premier promised everyone an income tax cut. It was very clear. He said it multiple times. The Premier proposed an income tax cut, and six years later—six years—nothing—bubkes—nothing has happened.

Right now, in Ontario, we all know families are struggling just to keep their heads above water, to pay their rent or their mortgage, to put food on the table, to clothe their kids. Times are hard for too many Ontario families. What families need are tax cuts that are permanent, that are lasting. That’s why Ontario Liberals put forward two measures that will help families at this difficult time with the affordability crisis. The first is an income tax cut and the second is removing the provincial sales tax from home heating and hydro. Two measures—simple, straightforward—that will save families about $1,150 a year.

Tax cuts that are lasting and permanent are what families need right now. Again, Speaker, the Premier promised an income tax cut six years ago and never delivered. And when we proposed cutting the sales tax on home heating and hydro, this government voted against it. They voted against a small business tax credit. So this Premier and this government talk a great game, but when it comes to actually delivering tax cuts that are permanent, they can’t do it.

Royal Canadian Legion Branch 586

Mr. Rick Byers: Colleagues, on November 2, it was my great pleasure to attend the wonderful reopening of Royal Canadian Legion Branch 586 in Hepworth. It was January 21, 2022, when a raging fire completely destroyed the Hepworth Legion, as well as the Bruce Grey Music Hall of Fame. These two facilities have been under the same roof and were mainstays of the community. Hepworth and all of Grey-Bruce were shocked.

Branch 586 had received its charter in 1958. Meetings were held at the Royal Hotel until 1963. The Legion hall had been built to be the Hepworth Country Music Auditorium; it was purchased by Branch 586 around 1975.

The music hall of fame was founded in 2015 by our late, great former colleague Bill Murdoch and his close friend Arnie Clark. The hall had hosted many great acts, including Mel Tillis, Leroy Van Dyke and “Whispering” Bill Anderson. It was also filled with amazing memorabilia, including Alfie Fromager’s practice guitar and Harry Parker’s fiddle. These were all lost in the fire, as well as many special posters and photographs. Happily, the music hall of fame reopened in June of this year in Branch 6 in Owen Sound.

The November 2 Branch 586 reopening was a great occasion. Pipers led the parade and there was a terrific turnout from the community, including former MPP Bill Walker, Hepworth resident. Jim Copp, who led the rebuilding efforts, told us about the amazing community support the project received. It was an example of the great culture in Grey-Bruce.

Congratulations, Branch 586, on your rebuilding and fantastic opening. Your new legacy has begun.

Children’s treatment centre

Mr. Lorne Coe: This past Friday, the Grandview Kids Jerry Coughlan Building in Ajax was officially opened by the Honourable Michael Parsa, the Minister of Children, Community and Social Services. The new, fully accessible, state-of-the-art children’s treatment centre will serve more than 6,000 children and youth with physical, communication and developmental needs in Durham region. This new centre was made possible through a provincial investment of approximately $85 million.

Building a new state-of-the-art children’s treatment centre for children and youth with special speeds in Durham region is one more way our government is ensuring hard-working families can connect with specialized services no matter where they live. I’m so grateful to Premier Ford and other members of our cabinet, as well as the Durham IV, for fulfilling the dreams of thousands of children and their families. Once again, we’re getting it done.

House sittings

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Pursuant to standing order 9(g), the Clerk has received written notice from the government House leader indicating that a temporary change in the weekly meeting

schedule of the House is required and, therefore, the afternoon routine on Wednesday, November 20, 2024, shall commence at 1 p.m.

Introduction of Visitors

Hon. Mike Harris: We have a wonderful delegation from Waterloo region here today. I’m not going to read everybody’s name, but I’d just like to highlight our mayors and regional chair: Karen Redman, Dorothy McCabe, Berry Vrbanovic, Sue Foxton, Joe Nowak, Natasha Salonen and Sandy Shantz. Welcome to the Ontario Legislature.

I’d also like to highlight two of our wonderful chicken farmers from the riding of Kitchener–Conestoga who are here joining us today: Scott Buchan and Wendy Lantz.

Mr. John Vanthof: On behalf of the official opposition—and many others, I’m sure—I’d like to welcome Chicken Farmers of Ontario and Ontario Pork to the House. I can’t think of a better thing than to have Ontario bacon at lunch and Ontario chicken wings for supper. Thanks for being here.

Ms. Bobbi Ann Brady: I would like to welcome representatives of the Chicken Farmers of Ontario as well, with whom I had a great meeting this morning. Welcome to Queen’s Park, Jordan Fois, Jason Devet, Bryan Fieldhouse and Haldimand county’s very own Hank Lise. I’d like to thank CFO for all they do to keep our food banks winged up. Thanks very much.

Hon. Rob Flack: I’d like to welcome the Chicken Farmers of Ontario, who are here, in particular Murray Opsteen, chair of the chicken farmers, and Denise Hockaday, the CEO; as well as pork producers Ontario Pork, here with Tara Terpstra, the chair of Ontario Pork and Ken Ovington, the general manager.

As the member opposite said, enjoy a little protein today: pork at lunch, chicken at night. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Joel Harden: I’m very proud to have a good friend here in the gallery today, Dr. Asif Doja, who is a neurologist at the Children’s Hospital of Eastern Ontario and the co-creator of an amazing podcast called Doctor Vs Comedian—you should all tune in to it. Dr. Doja’s daughter Alina is one of our pages. I’m very honoured, Alina, that you are working with us, and nice to see you, my friend.

Mrs. Karen McCrimmon: I’d like to welcome Michelle Wodchis-Johnson, president of the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance, and Jasmine Bates, president of the College Student Alliance. Welcome to your House.

Hon. Kevin Holland: I’d like to welcome to the Legislature today a civics class from Hammarskjold High School who are here visiting us, as well as four students from Confederation College: Robin Gathercole, Geetika Verma, Rushi Tilva and Kevin Joseph.

As well I want to give a welcome to Shawna Kozak, a friend and neighbour who is here as part of the Insurance Bureau of Canada.

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I would like to welcome the amazing student advocates who have come from across the province today to participate in a joint advocacy effort from the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance, the College Student Alliance and Ontario Student Voices.

In particular, I want to welcome Michelle Wodchis-Johnson, president of OUSA; Malika Dhanani, the executive director of OUSA; Jasmine Bates, president of the College Student Alliance; Michael Tahir, vice-president of the College Student Alliance; Olivia Villeneuve, the policy and advocacy lead from the College Student Alliance; Lynn Courville, the executive director of Ontario Student Voices; and Olamipo Ogunnote, director of advocacy and strategic partnerships at Ontario Student Voices.

Thank you so much for coming today to meet with MPPs.

Mr. Mike Schreiner: I’d like to introduce my good friend Glen Hodgson, who is from Parry Sound. He is a teacher and president of OSSTF District 4. But more importantly, today he’s going to watch his daughter Autumn in action as a page.

I also want to welcome the pork farmers and chicken farmers of Ontario. I’m just saying choose my barbecue sauce tonight for your wings. It was recommended by somebody on my staff, Shelley Thrasher. Thank you, Shelley.

Hon. Lisa M. Thompson: It was awesome to welcome earlier today Kincardine District Secondary School, They’re a special school in the riding of Huron–Bruce.

Speaking of Huron–Bruce, I’d like to welcome chicken farmers’ Rick Kaptein and my neighbour Adrian Rehorst.

Miss Monique Taylor: I would also like to welcome some guests from Ontario Student Voices: Sara Ortiz, Ganyo Soh, Kate Keaney and Tal Sarig. I’m looking forward to meeting you later today. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): If there are no objections, I’d like to continue with introduction of visitors.

Mr. Tyler Allsopp: I just wanted to welcome Jeremy Prinzen, who is here today on behalf of the Chicken Farmers of Ontario and is a great resident of the Bay of Quinte. Thank you for coming and welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Terence Kernaghan: I would like to welcome members from Electric Mobility Canada: Audrey Dépault, Evan Wiseman, Luis Leal and Maureen Shuell.

I’d also like to welcome individuals from OUSA, including Dreyden George, Marcus Nieva and Polina Vaynshtok; and London North Centre constituents Kathleena Henricus and Michelle Wodchis-Johnson. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Ms. Donna Skelly: I would also like to welcome members from the Chicken Farmers of Ontario, in particular, two people from my riding of Flamborough–Glanbrook: CFO board chair Murray Opsteen and Kathryn Goodish, who is the senior director of communications and stakeholder relations. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

M me France Gélinas: It was a pleasure to meet with the College Student Alliance. Two students made it from Sault Ste. Marie: Teena Gilstrap and Isabella Vergara Bedoya. I also met with Rishi Vatish, Francis Osifo, Naisha Suthaharan, Olivia Villeneuve, Ana Downes, Jorge Briones, Miren De Los Reyes and Yash Patel.

I also had the pleasure to meet with Ontario Student Voices. I had representatives from both Cambrian College in Sudbury and Confederation College in Thunder Bay: Kate Keaney, Jamie Hopkins, Kevin Joseph, Rushi Tilva and Geetika Verma.

Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Caroline Mulroney: I am pleased to welcome Bryan Fieldhouse from my riding of York–Simcoe. He’s here today as a member of the Chicken Farmers of Ontario. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

MPP Jill Andrew: I would like to welcome the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance: ED Malika Dhanani, who’s here today; along with Michelle Wodchis-Johnson, University Students’ Council at Western University; Mark Chrabalowski, Brock University Students’ Union; Jazzlyn Abbott, McMaster Students Union; and Ben Jesseau, Wilfrid Laurier University Students’ Union. I’m looking forward to meeting with them this week to discuss food insecurity, housing and responses to hate-motivated attacks.

Mr. Matthew Rae: I would like to welcome Doug Duimering, Jennifer Huberts and Dave Vandenberg, great chicken farmers in my riding, and also all the pork producers here from Perth–Wellington and Ontario Pork as well. There’s lots of pork in Perth–Wellington.

Mr. Sol Mamakwa: Meegwetch, Speaker.

Remarks in Anishininiimowin.

I want to thank the leadership of Netmizaaggamig Nishnaabeg, also called Pic Mobert First Nation, who are here at Queen’s Park. With us from Netmizaaggamig Nishnaabeg are Chief Louis Kwissiwa, Councillor Myles Kwissiwa, Councillor Jeff Desmoulin, Councillor Basil Sabourin, Councillor Wayne Sabourin, Joe Moses, Paul Michtics, Crystal Pirie and Charles Alderson. Meegwetch for coming.

Hon. Nolan Quinn: I’d like to welcome the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance, the College Student Alliance and Ontario Student Voices, as well as, from Let’s Talk Science, founder and president Bonnie Schmidt, vice-president Richard Longtin as well as Nathan Kostiuk. Thank you for the meetings this morning.

MPP Kristyn Wong-Tam: I also would like to add my voice in the chorus of welcomes to the Chicken Farmers of Ontario. This morning, I had a wonderful, informative and absolutely delightful meeting with the delegation. I want to single out Denise Hockaday, who is the CEO, as well as Murray Opsteen, who is the chair of the board of directors.

Also, I want to send a very warm welcome to the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance for your lobby day. I look forward to our meeting this afternoon.

Ms. Jess Dixon: It’s my honour to highlight two of our wonderful pages today as well as their respective proud parents supporting them from the gallery.

From Kitchener South–Hespeler, we have Ahilan Sathiyamoorthy, who has his very proud dad, Sanj Sathiyamoorthy, supporting from the gallery. We also have our page captain from Cambridge, Aida Becker, and her very proud mother, Justice Nicole Redgate, who I actually had the honour of working with in her capacity as a crown in the Kitchener crown’s office. Thank you so much both to Aida and Ahilan for your dedicated service in the House today.

MPP Lise Vaugeois: I’d like to welcome members of the College Student Alliance: Jasmine Bates, Kristine Galvan, Teena Gilstrap, Naisha Suthaharan and David Ward. I’m looking forward to meeting you later.

I also want to just say how glad I am that the Ontario Undergraduate Student Alliance and Ontario Student Voices are still here and working hard on behalf of university students across Ontario.

Hon. Todd J. McCarthy: I’d like to welcome from Durham region to the House today Mr. Ferd Longo, a fine and upstanding business person in our community and one who believes strongly in giving back to the community. Welcome to the House.

Ms. Jessica Bell: I’d like to introduce Caitlin Laskowski from the Chicken Farmers of Ontario. Thank you for joining us here today.

Hon. Kinga Surma: I would like to recognize an old friend here today, Richard Longtin, the VP of Let’s Talk Science, Canada’s largest science, technology, engineering and math outreach organization. Richard is joined by Let’s Talk Science president and founder, Dr. Bonnie Schmidt, and Nathan Kostiuk, responsible for stakeholder relations. I look forward to seeing them later this afternoon.

Ms. Patrice Barnes: I’d like to recognize my friend Ewa Antczak, who is here in the House today. Thank you, Ewa, for coming.

Hon. Sam Oosterhoff: Jordan Fois, Kim Tsementzis and Andrea Veldhuizen: Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Hon. Mike Harris: Thank you, Speaker. Last one, I promise: I do see Eric Schwindt hiding up in the public galleries. Welcome to the Ontario Legislature.

Legislative pages

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): I’m going to ask our pages to assemble for their introductions.

I am very pleased to have this opportunity to introduce to you, members, this new group of legislative pages: from the riding of Kitchener–Conestoga, William Banbury; from the riding of Cambridge, Aida Becker; from Dufferin–Caledon, Charlotte Chummar; from Ottawa South, Alina Doja; from Parkdale–High Park, Ekam Brinley Dosanjh; from Hamilton West–Ancaster–Dundas, Jack Hambly; from Parry Sound–Muskoka, Autumn Hodgson; from the riding of Milton, Macarius Kamel; from the riding of Scarborough Centre, Dawson Kwan; from the riding of Pickering–Uxbridge, Jonah Martin-Nguyen; from Etobicoke Centre, Elyse Miller; from Willowdale, Kamila Mofrad; from Scarborough–Agincourt, Andrew Yang Muhlbacher; from Brampton East, Maadhav Saini; from Kitchener South–Hespeler, Ahilan Sathiyamoorthy; from Whitby, Donnique Stephen; from Ajax, Anuva Sud; from Markham–Thornhill, Ananthamhee Shakthi Thirunadarajah; from Don Valley West, Juliet van Wyk; from Timmins, Elissa Wakeford; from Don Valley North, Ryan Wang; and from Richmond Hill, Laura Yahlou.

Please join me in welcoming this group of pages.

Applause.

Use of electronic devices in House

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Before I ask for oral questions, it seems appropriate and necessary to once again remind members that the rules of the House prohibit members from using smart phone cameras to record the proceedings in the chamber. This rule is found in standing order 22, which states as follows: “The use of laptops, tablets and smart phones is permitted in the chamber and committee rooms provided they are operated silently, do not impair decorum and are not used as a telephone, recording device, camera or prop.”

Any recording of House proceedings using a personal electronic device would be a contravention of the standing order and, therefore, clearly out of order.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order.

It is now time for oral questions.

Question Period

Hospital funding

Ms. Marit Stiles: Good morning, Speaker. My question is to the Premier. Hospitals all across Ontario are struggling: emergency room closures, shorter hours and now another hospital, North Bay Regional Health Centre, is being forced to reduce services just to keep the lights on. Sadly, this isn’t that surprising, because Ontario is in last place for per-person health care spending in the entire country.

Meanwhile, this Premier is cutting deals, insiders are cashing in and patients pay the price for this government’s failure to deliver on the very basics. Why is this government choosing to leave rural and northern patients stranded while pouring billions of dollars into luxury spas and wasteful schemes?

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): To reply for the government, the member for Essex and parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Health.

Mr. Anthony Leardi: Speaker, since this government took office in 2018, the health care budget has gone from $60 billion to $85 billion, which is an increase of $25 billion. No government has put more money into the public health care system than this government.

We must always keep in mind the quote from the former Liberal Minister of Health, George Smitherman, who said that the previous Liberal government “starved” the health care system in order to balance the budget. Of course, we will not repeat the mistakes made by the former Liberal government. We will continue to invest in the health care system in the province of Ontario, building new hospitals, building new training facilities for our medical professionals and providing free tuition in the province of Ontario for anyone seeking to study nursing at our—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock. We’re not off to a good start. The member for Hamilton Mountain will come to order. The member for Ottawa South will come to order. The Minister of Red Tape Reduction will come to order.

Start the clock. Supplementary question?

Ms. Marit Stiles: Perhaps the member didn’t hear my question. I was asking about North Bay.

I’m going to go back to the Premier again. North Bay’s hospital is short nearly 100 beds today. They’re looking at a critical shortage of 600 staff in the next few years, and not just that—there are 7,100 people who do not have a family doctor in North Bay. People are getting sicker and sicker, and they can no longer depend on their local hospital because of this government’s reckless decisions.

North Bay deserves better, so when will this government get Ontario out of last place and put patients first?

Mr. Anthony Leardi: Ontario reports on non-priority emergency department wait times, and this government is assisting by bolstering the nursing workforce. We have an additional $10 million of funding going to help 1,000 nurses upskill and train for remote hospitals and developing better emergency department care. That, of course, is in stark contrast to the previous government which, as the previous Minister of Health observed, starved the health care system in order to balance the budget.

Mr. Speaker, we’re not going to repeat those mistakes. We are training more nurses in the province of Ontario. Since 2018, we have trained or upskilled 80,000 nurses who are registered to work in the province of Ontario. We’re going to continue making investments. We’re going to continue training nurses, who, of course, will benefit from free tuition from our colleges and universities.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The final supplementary?

Ms. Marit Stiles: Maybe the member for Essex will care if I make it about his riding for just one moment, because there are 12,755 people without a family doctor in Essex right now.

Yesterday, I asked about Hamilton and Huron-Perth, and today it’s North Bay. Ontario is in last place in the country when it comes to health care spending—last place in the country. Emergency rooms are closing—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock. I apologize.

The Minister of Energy and Electrification will stand in his place and withdraw.

Hon. Stephen Lecce: I withdraw.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): I apologize to the Leader of the Opposition.

Start the clock.

Ms. Marit Stiles: And they should be ashamed. Ontario is in last place in the country when it comes to health care spending. All Ontarians get with this Premier are headaches, not homes; delays, not doctors; spas, not schools. Getting health care is the right of every Ontarian, every Canadian, and this government is failing to deliver that in North Bay and all across this province.

So my question to the Premier is, why does this government always choose private profits over public care when Ontarians are stuck waiting in a broken system?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Members will please take their seats. The government House leader will come to order. The Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing will come to order.

The member for Essex can reply.

Mr. Anthony Leardi: I’m glad the Leader of the Opposition made the question specific to the riding of Essex. Let’s talk about my riding, the riding of Essex. We received a promise from the former Liberal government that they would build a new hospital in our region, and then they reneged on that promise. And then, the new Premier of Ontario, Doug Ford, came and said he was going to go to Queen’s Park and he was going to fight like an 800-pound gorilla to get us that hospital. Lo and behold, we have a brand new hospital that is on track in the riding—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The member for Windsor West will come to order. The member for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke will come to order.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): If you repeatedly ignore the Speaker’s request to come to order, you will be warned, and if you don’t listen to me at that point, I’ll name you. We’re six minutes in. That means we’ve got 54 minutes to go.

Start the clock. The next question.

Fundraising

Ms. Marit Stiles: Maybe I can shed some light on why the government is so focused on funnelling public dollars into private corporations. In September, the chair of the Ontario Conservative Party fund sent an email to cabinet ministers assigning them fundraising targets. Yesterday, the Attorney General stood here and said that this was a mistake. Certainly it wasn’t supposed to go to ministers in their official capacity, right? But if this were true—to the Premier—why did it open with the greeting, “Hello, cabinet ministers”?

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The Attorney General.

Hon. Doug Downey: Only the NDP would think that having two to five fundraisers would be some sort of offside thing. They can’t even retain a director of fundraising.

Now, what they should do—I did come up with an idea last night. I thought, “How can we help them?” If the labour organizations are increasingly supporting the Progressive Conservative Party, surely there are some that are staying with them. So I thought, “Who could help them?” Well, Fred Hahn has 86 donations personally to the NDP and its candidates, so I was thinking maybe they could turn to him for a little bit of help in recruiting a new director of fundraising, because they want somebody who has worked for an organization in either labour or in a volunteer capacity.

Look, we’re happy to work with the NDP. If they really think there’s something, we’ll have a conversation. But they just want to clip media and send it to the Integrity Commissioner, and maybe somebody will make a story out of it. There is nothing here.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Order.

The supplementary question?

Ms. Marit Stiles: Let’s just go back again. This doesn’t seem like an accident, pretty clearly. Once again, they’re changing their stories. I have to say it feels a little bit like we’re travelling back in time to 2016, because it feels a lot like the Liberal cash-for-access scandal all over again. We know how these guys work, right? The Premier cuts deals, insiders cash in and it’s the hard-working people of Ontario that pay the price.

The Conservative fundraising chair wrote to the cabinet ministers’ chiefs of staff and instructed them to come up with a fundraising plan. He even referred to having discussed the matter at the government’s caucus retreat this past summer.

Some 2.5 million people in this province don’t have a family doctor. Housing starts are the lowest they’ve been since the 1950s. Why is this government focused only on cashing in on their connections?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Members will please take their seats.

The Attorney General.

Hon. Doug Downey: Political parties do fundraising, Mr. Speaker. That’s the story.

Now, what we should be focused on in this House are things that matter to the people of Ontario, things like affordability, like the hospitals that are being built in Mr. Leardi’s riding, the 50 hospitals that are being built, cutting the gas tax, cutting the stickers. We’re removing bike lanes. We’re doing so many things for the people of Ontario, and the NDP would have us focus on fundraising.

I would suggest maybe the NDP should focus on fundraising, because when I watch what’s going on over there, they are so divided. I don’t even know who their stakeholders are anymore. Doors are open: IBEW, operating engineers, LIUNA. Mr. Speaker, they can keep Fred Hahn, but we will take the rest.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The final supplementary?

Ms. Marit Stiles: Here’s why this matters: Our health care system is collapsing while the Minister of Health diverts hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars to private health care companies. You can’t get a doctor, but you can talk to the minister for $500 this week. Tickets are on sale right now on the Conservative Party website.

The Minister of Transportation couldn’t find the time to listen to people speak at committee for more than an hour, but if you cough up a thousand bucks, you can meet with him for as long as you want this Thursday night.

This government needs to do their job for the people of Ontario. Isn’t this just another example of your ministers cashing in on their connections while the people of Ontario have to fight to be heard?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Members will please take their seats. The government House leader will come to order. The member for Ottawa Centre will come to order. The member for St. Catharines will come to order.

The Attorney General may reply.

Hon. Doug Downey: They are so incensed, they are so outraged that a political party would hold a fundraiser.

We want to talk about access: The Premier gives out his phone number to every Ontarian. We were at the operating engineers unveiling of a $25-million training centre to double the amount of crane operators available in this province as we build the province of Ontario, and you know what he did? He went to the 35 trainees, and he said, “Get out your phones. Here’s my phone number.” And I said to them, “He will answer your text. He will answer your call. Don’t send him a ‘merry Christmas’ because he will answer that too.” He gets flooded.

Now here’s my question, Mr. Speaker. If the opposition is so out of sorts because of access to government, I challenge the Leader of the Opposition to give out her personal phone number.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock. The Associate Minister of Forestry and Forest Products will come to order. The Leader of the Opposition will come to order.

Start the clock. The next question.

Municipal funding

Ms. Catherine Fife: My question is to the Premier. Municipalities presented their health and homelessness strategy way back in 2023 to this government. Cities have requested homelessness become a health priority, as Ontario currently has 1,400 encampments. The city of Kitchener released its 2025 budget on Monday, outlining its priorities and proposed tax rate increases for residents.

This year’s proposed budget makes urgent investments in infrastructure in the community, but, Speaker, our municipalities should not have to bear the full brunt of this work. They are at a tipping point and are asking the province—this provincial government—for a new deal.

To the Premier: When will municipalities get the respect and financial assistance that they deserve in this province?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Before I ask the minister to reply, members will take their seats. The government House leader is warned.

The Minister of Finance.

Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, through you, to the member opposite for the question.

Mr. Speaker, there is no government—and I’ve been around for a long time—in recent memory that has done more for municipalities in this province.

Let’s talk first about the 45% increase of transfers to municipalities over the last five years. That’s about 10% a year.

But wait, there’s more: Think about the infrastructure funding from our Minister of Infrastructure through the housing, water and sewage fund, which is creating opportunities right across the province for more infrastructure in our communities.

But wait, there’s more: The Minister of Infrastructure has also put in a plan for a housing infrastructure program for roads and bridges and culverts within those same communities.

But wait, there’s more: The Ontario municipal fund—another $100 million to help 320 small, rural and northern communities—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The member for Orléans will come to order.

The supplementary question?

Ms. Catherine Fife: Speaker, municipalities have taken something like 10% of every tax dollar but are responsible for 17% to 18% of all the expenditures. It cannot continue. It’s not sustainable. Kitchener mayor Berry Vrbanovic said it best: “The model of funding, has remained virtually unchanged since 1867 and simply isn’t keeping up with modern issues facing communities.”

The province’s new deals for both Toronto and Ottawa have shown that you recognize that there are financial pressures on all of Ontario’s municipalities. Municipal taxpayers are collectively subsidizing the province to the tune of $4 billion ever year.

To the Premier: Municipalities across the province are calling on the government to negotiate a new financial agreement with them as they struggle with growing costs. The question is, will you listen and will you negotiate a fair deal for Ontario cities?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Members will please take their seats.

The Minister of Finance.

Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy: Well, Mr. Speaker, an irony of all ironies: Just this morning, our Minister of Housing and our Minister of Red Tape Reduction met with all the mayors of the region of Waterloo. In fact, just last Thursday, we met with the mayors of Waterloo, the mayors of Kitchener, the regional chair, and do you know what they said? They said, “Thank you. Thank you for listening. Thank you for acting. Thank you for putting into motion the things that are growing in our communities like the Building Faster Fund, like doubling the Ontario Community Infrastructure Fund.”

Let’s not forget the 40% increase in the Homelessness Prevention Program, of which the region of Waterloo was a big beneficiary. No government has done more for the region of Waterloo and all Ontario.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The member for Hamilton Mountain is warned.

The next question.

Energy policies

Mr. Will Bouma: My question is for the Minister of Energy and Electrification. The previous Liberal government’s failed and ideologically driven energy experiments burdened hard-working people and businesses with billions of dollars of bad deals. Their bad planning led to some of the highest increases in electricity costs on the continent.

Our government was elected to clean up their mess, and unlike the Liberals, we are taking real action and providing Ontario families and businesses with affordable and reliable energy. The minister is taking Ontario’s message to the world, helping to secure domestic supply while exporting our clean tech to foreign markets.

Speaker, can the minister please explain how we are securing the affordable energy for Ontario’s families and helping to deliver energy security to foreign markets?

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The member for Beaches–East York will come to order.

The Minister of Energy and Electrification.

Hon. Stephen Lecce: I want to thank the member for Brantford–Brant for his question and his leadership in this House.

Mr. Speaker, the world is turning their attention to Ontario. We have become the envy of the world as a clean energy superpower. We were in Poland and Estonia to help secure deals for Ontarians—export markets that are so critical to creating jobs and growth in Ontario. Eastern Europe understands that they need to decouple dependence from Putin.

Today is the 1000th day of war in Ukraine. It’s why we went to Eastern Europe with a message that Ontario’s clean technology, our small modular reactors, could displace Russian resources with clean, democratic technology made here in the province of Ontario, creating jobs and revenue for our people. We signed an agreement with Estonia to help deploy non-emitting nuclear power into their Baltic state—again, another nation on the front lines of Russian aggression.

We are committed to reliable power for our people, affordable power for Ontarians, but also deploying our technology to the world to create energy security abroad so that we create better jobs back home.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The supplementary question?

Mr. Will Bouma: Thank you, Minister, for that great response. Ontarians count on a strong and steady energy system to power their homes, their businesses and their communities. For years, they faced high costs and uncertainty. Under the Liberals, Speaker, energy bills soared and reliability was ignored. Families and businesses paid the price for the Liberals’ bad decisions. Rates went up as much as 300%, costing people an extra $1,000 a year.

But our government is showing strong leadership and we are taking a different path. We need to continue to recognize the importance of nuclear energy as a cornerstone of a clean, reliable and affordable energy system. Nuclear energy provides over 50% of our baseload power, keeping the lights on and costs down.

Speaker, can the minister please tell us how expanding nuclear energy is making Ontario’s energy system more reliable and showing that we are a world leader in nuclear energy production?

Hon. Stephen Lecce: I was very proud to stand with the member from Durham yesterday where we announced that the refurbishment of a unit at Darlington has returned to service five months ahead of

schedule in this province—a compelling case study that our province and our Premier are building on time and on budget when it comes to large-scale nuclear refurbishment and, of course, our small modular reactor fleet—again, on time and on budget. It is our value proposition to the world. No one can make that claim.

The return of this unit at Darlington—four to five units have now returned ahead of

schedule or are on time—produces power for 900,000 families. It is going to insert a $90-billion injection to our GDP, and 14,000 jobs will benefit across the nuclear supply chain.

We support non-emitting nuclear energy, and I hope all members of this House will vote in favour of this non-emitting source of reliable, clean, affordable power in the Affordable Energy Act.

Netmizaaggamig Nishnaabeg First Nation

Mr. Sol Mamakwa: This morning, the leadership of Netmizaaggamig Nishnaabeg First Nation declared a state of emergency. The First Nation is experiencing increased violent crime, drug trafficking by gangs, addiction, overdoses and sex trafficking, but the lack of a police presence and the delays in emergency response has created a crisis.

To the Premier, will you commit today to answer Netmizaaggamig Nishnaabeg’s specific calls to action to bring the First Nation out of a state of emergency.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Members will please take their seats.

The Solicitor General.

Hon. Michael S. Kerzner: To the member opposite, this is a serious matter. That’s why earlier this morning I spoke with Chief Jeff Skye of Anishinabek Police Services to discuss just how serious this is.

Mr. Speaker, when the Associate Minister of Auto Theft and Bail Reform and I went to Yellowknife and we sat at the federal, provincial and territorial meeting in Yellowknife, we told the federal government that the First Nations and Inuit Policing Program, which was introduced over 30 years ago—we must revisit it so that the declaration of essential services for First Nations, Inuit and Métis policing are addressed in legislation. Mr. Speaker, when the federal government comes to the table and antes up more money to do the right thing, Ontario will do it as well.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Supplementary question?

Mr. Sol Mamakwa: Speaker, this minister cannot use jurisdiction as an excuse to walk away from this issue.

Suicide rates and substance abuse issues are rising in this community. The community is doing what they can with the resources they have, but they are stretched beyond their capacity and have already incurred debt.

What actions will this government take to ensure to finally provide the First Nation with the same level of support, security and access to services as other communities in Ontario?

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Members will please take their seats.

The Associate Minister of Mental Health and Addictions.

Hon. Michael A. Tibollo: Thank you very much for that very, very important question. This government has taken mental health and addiction issues extremely seriously—

Interruption.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): I direct that he be removed from the gallery.

The Associate Minister of Mental Health and Addictions had the floor.

Hon. Michael A. Tibollo: As I was saying, we are taking very seriously the issues relating to mental health and addictions in the province. We have developed the Roadmap to Wellness. We’re making substantial investments, not—

Interruption.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Stop the clock. I direct that he be removed from the gallery as well.

I will remind the visitors who are present in the chamber that there are to be no outbursts from the visitors’ galleries.

Start the clock. The Associate Minister of Mental Health and Addictions can finish up.

Hon. Michael A. Tibollo: As I was saying, the focus of this government has been and will continue to be to build a treatment and recovery model that ensures that everyone in need of help in the province will get the help when and where they need it. What that means is looking at and creating opportunities for individuals to get the help they need from the beginning, which is detox, withdrawal management, treatment, and then supporting them to transition back in—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you very much.

The next question.

Taxation

Ms. Laurie Scott: My question is to the Minister of Natural Resources. Ontario’s natural resources sector is the backbone of our economy. It powers our infrastructure, from schools to hospitals, and keeps our province moving forward. Aggregate producers, for instance, play a crucial role in the construction industry. Every new road, bridge and building depends on their work.

But this industry is under threat. The Trudeau-Crombie-NDP carbon tax and heavy-handed regulations from Ottawa are making it harder and more expensive to operate. Families are seeing these increased costs in their grocery bills, higher gas prices and the cost of building new infrastructure. They are hurting.

Can the minister please explain how our government is standing up for Ontario’s natural resources sector and protecting jobs from the damaging impact of this harmful tax?

Hon. Graydon Smith: Thanks to the member for Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock for the great job she does and, occasionally, the ice cream as well.

To build a school takes 650 loads of aggregate. A kilometre of subway tunnel—4,500 loads of aggregate. To build Ontario, we need aggregate, and this government is supporting the aggregate sector every single day, reducing costs, reducing burdens on them, ensuring that source is close to where it is used.

But, of course, the carbon tax is punitive to the aggregate industry. I know the friends across the aisle have been puffing out their chests about tax reductions in the last couple of days. Hey, some advice: Begin at the beginning. Get rid of the carbon tax, which pushes up the price of every school, every kilometre of highway, every kilometre of subway tunnel. It’s punitive for Ontarians.

Speaker, the choice is clear: You can support taxation, or you can support—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you very much. The minister will take his seat.

Supplementary question?

Ms. Laurie Scott: I thank the minister for that great answer, and the many aggregate producers in Haliburton–Kawartha Lakes–Brock are going to be happy to hear that, too.

Ontario is growing fast. We need more homes, more schools and more hospitals. None of this happens without aggregate. Every home needs a solid foundation. Every road and bridge needs strong materials.

Our economy depends on our natural resources, but rising costs are making it harder. The Trudeau-Crombie carbon tax adds to that burden. It drives up the price of fuel for trucks that deliver aggregate. It makes everything more expensive—construction, shipping, even the daily operations of small businesses. The people of Ontario can’t afford this. Families are struggling. Businesses are cutting back. Builders are worried about how they will meet the demand.

Can the minister please share how our government is protecting builders and families from these rising costs and ensuring Ontario’s growth stays on track?

Interjections.

Hon. Graydon Smith: Speaker, I can hear the chirping across the aisle already.

Reduce the carbon tax. That’s what we need to have happen in Ontario. That’s the first thing that needs to happen.

I’ll say it again: Begin at the beginning. Support the industries that build Ontario. Support the aggregate sector.

Speaker, 21,000 truckloads of aggregate move in Ontario every single day; two million truckloads of aggregate every single year. The Trudeau-Crombie-NDP carbon tax impacts every single load.

Over the next 25 years, we need to build a lot in the GTA, all around Ontario—homes, hospitals, long-term-care homes. We want to build for Ontarians. We need to get rid of that carbon tax.

It is simple. Friends across the aisle, pick up the phone and say it again: Begin at the beginning. Get rid of the carbon tax. Make Ontario better.

Addiction services

M me France Gélinas: Ma question est pour la ministre de la Santé.

Minister, a person dies every two and a half hours from the toxic drug supply in Ontario. Consumption and treatment sites have been instrumental in preventing thousands more deaths.

Without CTS, you can expect more calls to first responders, which means limited availability for other emergencies. You can expect busier emergency departments, where people already wait way too long.

Why is the minister putting more strain on our first responders and on our emergency departments?

Hon. Sylvia Jones: Respectfully, why is the member opposite not standing up for the families who have to stop taking their children to a playground because it’s too close to a consumption site? Why does the member not understand that having these consumption sites within 200 metres of a child care centre, a daycare, an EarlyON centre, a school is not appropriate?

We need to offer people pathways out of addiction; we do not need to enable it.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The opposition will come to order.

The supplementary question?

M me France Gélinas: Speaker, if this government, if this minister could stop downloading their responsibilities onto municipalities, we would have cleaner, healthier communities across this province, but yesterday, that member voted against my leader’s motion to do just that.

The minister is closing consumption and treatment sites and leaving a long gap before any other services, before the 10 hubs become available.

Why is the minister downloading her responsibilities to our municipal partners?

Hon. Sylvia Jones: Categorically false—when we made the announcement at the Association of Municipalities of Ontario, we were very clear that 19 demonstration HART hubs were going to be part of our solution to offer people hope, to make sure that they have a pathway out of addiction. These 19 HART hubs are going to provide social services. They’re going to provide mental health supports. They’re going to provide pathways and treatment out of addiction. They’re going to support supportive housing.

We are moving away from a system that enables people to continue to use illicit, illegal drugs, and we are changing to a system that takes people to a pathway to treatment.

Government’s record

Ms. Stephanie Bowman: In Doug Ford’s Ontario, small business bankruptcies have more than doubled in the last year.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): I’m going to interrupt and remind the member that we refer to each other by our ministerial title or our riding name, not by our personal name.

The member for Don Valley West can continue.

Ms. Stephanie Bowman: But yesterday, the Conservative government members stood up to vote against our Ontario Liberal tax cut for small business. Those Conservative members each delivered a very clear message to the small businesses in their riding: No tax cut for you. Sadly, Speaker, it’s a pattern.

It’s like what they say to 29,000 people in Don Valley West and 32,000 in the Premier’s riding who don’t have a family doctor: No doctor for you. People in Ontario who need their government hear “No help for you,” while the government says, “More money for you” to their rich insider friends.

My question to the Premier: When will he start saying no to his insider friends and yes to helping small businesses in Ontario?

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): To respond, Minister of Finance.

Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy: Oh, man, where do I start? Mr. Speaker, thank you to the member opposite for that question.

Was anyone around in 2020, when this government cut the small business tax? Do you remember that? Does anyone remember how that party voted over there? They voted against it. This is a party that came up with a good idea to modernize alcohol and bring it into convenience stores in 1985. This government got it done by allowing convenience stores, over 4,000, to sell more alcohol in their stores. They told us that it’s going to create 7,000 more jobs.

Did they vote for it or against it? They voted against it. Yet they stand up and say, “Oh, look at us. Rather than being the carbon tax party we are, we’re going to cut”—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The member for Ottawa South is warned.

Supplementary question?

Ms. Stephanie Bowman: You know, with Taylor Swift in town this week, I’m going to take her advice about that response and just shake it off.

As members, we are among the more fortunate in our province. We have a regular paycheque, benefits and a roof over our head. But there are so many people, including small business owners, who worry about keeping their doors open another month under this Conservative government. There are those suffering on the streets with drug addiction and the record-breaking one million people visiting food banks last year, who, sadly, are living another lyric of Taylor Swift’s: “3 a.m. and I’m still awake, I’ll bet you’re just fine / Fast asleep in your city that’s better than mine.”

The government can’t keep looking away from its pattern of saying yes to their insider friends while people in Ontario struggle. Again, to the Premier, when will he start saying no to his insider friends so he can say yes to helping the people of Ontario?

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The Minister of Red Tape Reduction is warned.

The Minister of Finance.

Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy: I have to go down history lane here, because when electricity prices went up 300% under the Liberal government, that increased costs by $1,000 per year. Who put the tolls on the 412 and the 418? Who brought in cap-and-trade, putting in a carbon tax for the people of Ontario? Who increased driver’s licence fees? They did.

Well, we just announced, in the fall economic statement, $12 billion of relief for the pocketbooks of the people of Ontario, $8 billion for the businesses of Ontario and $3.7 billion for the small businesses of Ontario.

Bonnie’s record speaks for itself: Every time she talks about anything, she talks about raising property taxes, like she did in Mississauga, because there’s not a tax that she hasn’t seen that she doesn’t like. It’s this government that’s reducing taxes. It’s that party that raised taxes and fees for the people of Ontario.

Water and sewage infrastructure

Mr. Dave Smith: I won’t make a reference to Taylor Swift like the opposition did there.

My question is to the Minister of Infrastructure. Housing is a growing concern for families across Ontario. People are worried about finding a safe and affordable place to call home. Young families want to stay in their communities, close to their loved ones and close to their jobs. But they can’t do that without more homes being built. Building homes, though, isn’t just about the brick and mortar. It’s also about the infrastructure that supports them. We need water systems that deliver clean drinking water and manage our waste water system safely. Without that, new homes can’t be built.

Our government has said that we want to make it easier for municipalities to get the infrastructure they need to support the new housing initiatives. Speaker, can the minister please tell us how the Housing-Enabling Water Systems Fund is helping to build more homes across Ontario?

Hon. Kinga Surma: Thank you very much to the member for the question. Mr. Speaker, the NDP have been throwing around accusations that we’re not doing enough to enable housing in the province of Ontario. This was included in our 2024 budget, and what we are doing is we are spending $970 million to support 54 water infrastructure projects in 60 communities across the province of Ontario to unlock approximately 500,000 homes.

Mr. Speaker, let’s just look at Sudbury: We’re investing $35 million to unlock 3,000 homes in Sudbury. In Cobourg, we’re investing $25 million to unlock 2,200 homes. In the city of London, we’re investing nearly $24 million to unlock 17,000 homes. In Vaughan, we’re investing $35 million to unlock 20,000 homes. And in beautiful Peel region, I joined the Premier to announce $35 million to unlock 47,000 homes.

Mr. Speaker, what the NDP fail to understand is that you cannot build a home if you cannot provide—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you very much.

The supplementary question?

Mr. Dave Smith: It is very clear that building more homes is a top priority for our government. But homes do not get built overnight. Municipalities need the right tools and support to get started. For years, we’ve heard about the barriers that prevent housing projects from moving forward. One of their biggest challenges is the need for proper water and waste water infrastructure. Without these critical systems, shovels can’t get into the ground, and families are left waiting for their homes that they need.

Our government has made it clear that we will work hand in hand with municipalities to address these challenges. Speaker, can the minister please tell us how our government plans to continue supporting municipalities in building the water infrastructure needed to build more homes?

Hon. Kinga Surma: I’m happy to. What the NDP fail to understand is that we are addressing the number one need raised by municipalities across the province, and 444 municipalities have supported this, Mr. Speaker. So not only are we providing $970 million, we also have a second stream of $250 million for additional water/waste water infrastructure, as well as $400 million for roads and bridges and any other works related to unlocking more housing opportunities.

Mr. Speaker, we are doing everything we can to support our municipalities in order to build more homes in Ontario, and we’d hope the NDP would support this.

University and college funding

Ms. Peggy Sattler: My question is to the Premier. Speaker, this government’s failure to address the financial challenges facing the post-secondary sector is putting futures at risk. Right now, there are 30,000 more domestic students at Ontario universities than this government provides funding for, a number that is expected to grow to 100,000 by 2030. But without the international student tuition dollars that have subsidized domestic tuition students for years, these 100,000 students won’t be able to get a spot.

Will the Premier commit today to a funding formula that ensures that every qualified domestic student who wants to attend a post-secondary institution in Ontario is able to, now and in the future?

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The Minister of Colleges and Universities.

Hon. Nolan Quinn: Speaker, funding for our post-secondary education system is higher than it’s ever been. On an annual basis, we do $5 billion worth of funding for our publicly assisted colleges and universities. On top of that, this spring we gave $1.3 billion of funding to our post-secondary education system. That is a historic investment, almost the largest investment in over 15 years.

We understand that there is more that needs to be done. That’s why we’ve invested $15 million into the Efficiency and Accountability Fund so our public colleges and universities can go through third-party reviews to understand if there are efficiencies to be had. The response to this fund has been extremely overwhelming, including schools that are in a good financial setting. They are asking to be part of the program because they understand what the opposition doesn’t understand: that there are efficiencies to be had and it’s not always throwing taxpayer money at the system.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The supplementary question?

Ms. Peggy Sattler: This government’s “historic” investment in post-secondary education leaves Ontario the lowest of any province of Canada in terms of per-student funding. Ontario students, communities and employers deserve a stable and sustainable post-secondary system; under this government, however, at least half of Ontario universities and a growing number of colleges are reporting deficits. There’s a $30-million deficit at University of Windsor, a $50-million deficit at Mohawk College, a $75-million deficit at University of Waterloo, at least a $26-million deficit at Carleton. Programs are being cut at Queen’s, at Guelph, at Fleming College, and many more to come.

Students, post-secondary faculty and sector experts have warned for years about the consequences of chronic underfunding. Why is this government ignoring that?

Hon. Nolan Quinn: Part of that $1.3 billion that we invested into the sector this year includes $903 million. With $700 million across-the-board funding increases, that adds up to 7% over the next three years. On top of that, we had $203 million for top-ups for institutions of greater need. We will remain committed through the SMA 4 process to ensure that we have a very robust system that works for all students across Ontario.

I will remind the students who are here today that when the NDP were in power, tuition rose three times the rate of inflation. A little closer, when the Liberals were in power, it rose three times the rate of inflation. We have inflation over the last few years of around 20%; if they were in power, our tuition would have gone up 60%.

We are the party that cares about affordability, and we’ll continue ensuring that our students have a world-class education system.

Energy policies

Ms. Aislinn Clancy: My question is for the Premier. Like many taxpayers, I’m tired of a government that continues to lie in bed with oil and gas giants who are fuelling the climate emergency and gouging us. Look at the track record: For the first time ever, they overturned the Ontario Energy Board’s decision that would have saved customers money because it was going to hurt Enbridge’s multi-billion dollar bottom line—$5.8 billion in profit for them last year alone; $19 million for their CEO.

They give Enbridge a free ride to use our land and our infrastructure without paying anything, ripping off the people of Ontario and depriving us of the money we need to build homes, schools and child care centres. As a result, climate chaos. It’s making us sick and it’s driving up the cost of living, and forcing us and our kids into an unlivable reality.

My question for the Premier: Will he stop the sweetheart deals and do the right thing and put the people of Ontario before fossil-fuel billionaires?

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The Minister of Energy and Electrification.

Hon. Stephen Lecce: Mr. Speaker, the only sweetheart deal that was signed in this province were the 33,000 contracts the Liberal Party signed 10 times over—contracts that this Premier put an end to. In 2018, we got elected to fix the hydro mess, which, respectfully, the Green Party enabled, as did the NDP.

We took a different approach. We’re using competitive procurements to drive down prices, because, unlike the members opposite, who seem to only prioritize a clean grid, we also prioritize affordability for the people we serve. That’s why we stand against a carbon tax; that’s why we are ensuring nuclear non-emitting energy—which is one of the most affordable forms of energy to expand in the province—on time and on budget.

The contrast could not be more clear. We are reducing emissions. The only jurisdiction in the country to do so without imposing a punitive carbon tax for the people of Ontario.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): The supplementary question?

Ms. Aislinn Clancy: Again, to the Premier: With all due respect, emissions are going up. It’s proof that this government doesn’t have a plan. In fact, seven teenagers are taking this government to court because of it. You can’t even say the words “climate change”—it was mentioned once in the fall economic statement. Flooding, no plan; fire, no plan; extreme heat, no plan; mitigation, no plan.

In fact, last year alone, insurance billings from climate disasters more than doubled to over $8 billion. We are in the hockey stick, everyone. We should be worried. There is no plan and no accountability. For every litre of gas, 18 cents is profit for the oil and gas sector, and for every dollar spent due to inflation, 25 cents goes to oil, gas and mining. Monopolies like Enbridge are ramping up pollution and profits, and the Ford government is giving them a free ride.

My question for the Premier is, why does this government continue to subsidize oil and gas, putting out the red carpet for billionaires like Enbridge, who are causing climate chaos and gouging Ontarians?

Hon. Stephen Lecce: Mr. Speaker, Ontario has one of the cleanest grids on earth and we are proud of that reality. Under our plan, by using nuclear energy as our baseload solution, we will actually have a cleaner, greener grid as a consequence.

But the Greens could be like their Finnish Greens, who actually support nuclear energy. They can see the light, that if we want to have baseload energy that is reliable, enduring and affordable, then nuclear is the future. We understand that, which is why in the Affordable Energy Act, we prioritize this non-emitting form of energy.

I hope the members opposite will reflect on the 70,000 families who depend on nuclear energy because at Darlington yesterday we put a unit back on five months ahead of schedule, supporting a $90-billion lift to our GDP. Some 14,000 people will benefit.

So, Mr. Speaker, for every dollar we invest, we get a $1.40 out, according to the Conference Board of Canada. We are investing in a clean future without imposing taxes on the people of this province.

Red tape reduction

M me Dawn Gallagher Murphy: My question is for the Minister of Public and Business Service Delivery and Procurement. Under the previous Liberal government, supported by the NDP, businesses in Ontario faced challenges as provincial systems in place used to register and communicate with businesses were slow, outdated and costly. Entrepreneurs spent hours navigating red tape. Speaker, as a small business owner who started my own business in 2004, I recall trying to navigate that red tape, to the point where I hired somebody to help me through these complex processes as I was too busy trying to land clients.

Our government has promised to cut through this clutter and make it easier for Ontarians to start and grow businesses, to ensure people spend less time dealing with government paperwork and more time focused on their goals of serving their clients and making money.

Speaker, can the minister please explain how the new Ontario Business Registry is helping to simplify processes and save time and money for businesses and individuals—

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Thank you very much.

The Minister of Public and Business Service Delivery and Procurement.

Hon. Todd J. McCarthy: I appreciate the timely question from the excellent member for Newmarket–Aurora.

Our government is committed to delivering on our promise to make life simpler and better for Ontario businesses. This is what the Premier speaks about when he talks about our government creating the conditions for prosperity and for the creation of jobs. By harnessing emerging technologies, we have launched the new and enhanced Ontario Business Registry. This innovative platform provides millions of Ontarians, whether starting or growing businesses or not-for-profits, with easier, more affordable and round-the-clock access to essential government services. The OBR is a prime example of how we are supporting both individuals and businesses across our province.

We are reducing costs for Ontarians by eliminating licence plate renewal fees and cutting gas prices, and we know how important it is for businesses to have the conditions and access to government services to thrive.

The Speaker (Hon. Ted Arnott): Supplementary question?

M me Dawn Gallagher Murphy: For years, businesses and non-profits faced long wait times for standard processes. People had to rely on outdated methods like mail and fax. These delays cost time and money, which businesses do not like. It frustrated business owners and slowed down growth.

Sadly, the previous Liberal government allowed these decade-old systems to deteriorate, hurting individuals and businesses. That is why our government needs to take action to fix these problems, to make it easier for organizations to manage their affairs, to bring Ontario systems into the digital age and provide faster and more reliable service.

Speaker, can the minister please share more about how the changes to the Ontario Business Registry are helping not-for-profits by resolving ongoing issues that hurt their business operation?

Hon.