British Columbia Hansard — 28 April 2026, p.m., Issue 166 (43rd Parliament, 2nd Session)

20260428pm-Hansard-n166

British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)

Second Session, 43rd Parliament OFFICIAL REPORT OF DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday, April 28, 2026 Afternoon Sitting Issue No. 166 THE HONOURABLE RAJ CHOUHAN, SPEAKER ISSN 1499-2175

PROVINCE OF BRITISH COLUMBIA (Entered Confederation July 20, 1871) LIEUTENANT-GOVERNOR Her Honour the Honourable Wendy Cocchia, CM, OBC Second Session, 43rd Parliament SPEAKER OF THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Honourable Raj Chouhan EXECUTIVE COUNCIL Premier and President of the Executive Council ................................................................................................... Hon. David Eby, KC Minister of State for Local Governments and Rural Communities .......................................................... Hon.

Brittny Anderson Minister of Agriculture and Food ..............................................................................................................................Hon. Lana Popham Attorney General and Deputy Premier ............................................................................................................... Hon. Niki Sharma, KC Minister of Children and Family Development ......................................................................................................Hon.

Jodie Wickens Minister of Citizens’ Services ......................................................................................................................................Hon. Diana Gibson Minister of Education and Child Care ............................................................................................................................Hon. Lisa Beare Minister of Emergency Management and Climate Readiness ................................................................................ Hon.

Kelly Greene Minister of Energy and Climate Solutions .................................................................................................................... Hon. Adrian Dix Minister of Environment and Parks .................................................................................................... Hon. Laanas / Tamara Davidson Minister of Finance ......................................................................................................................................................Hon.

Brenda Bailey Minister of Forests .......................................................................................................................................................... Hon. Ravi Parmar Minister of Health ........................................................................................................................................................Hon. Josie Osborne Minister of Housing and Municipal Affairs ...........................................................................................................Hon.

Christine Boyle Minister of Indigenous Relations and Reconciliation ........................................................................Hon. Spencer Chandra Herbert Minister of Infrastructure .............................................................................................................................................. Hon. Bowinn Ma Minister of Jobs and Economic Growth ...................................................................................................................... Hon.

Ravi Kahlon Minister of State for Artificial Intelligence and New Technologies .................................................................. Hon. Rick Glumac Minister of Labour .............................................................................................................................................. Hon. Jennifer Whiteside Minister of Mining and Critical Minerals .....................................................................................................................Hon.

Jagrup Brar Minister of Post-Secondary Education and Future Skills ........................................................................................Hon. Jessie Sunner Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General ........................................................................................................ Hon. Nina Krieger Minister of State for Community Safety and Integrated Services ........................................................................ Hon.

Terry Yung Minister of Social Development and Poverty Reduction ...............................................................................Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Minister of Tourism, Arts, Culture and Sport ............................................................................................................. Hon. Anne Kang Minister of Transportation and Transit ................................................................................................................ Hon.

Mike Farnworth Minister of Water, Land and Resource Stewardship ............................................................................................... Hon. Randene Neill Minister Without Portfolio ..............................................................................................................................................Hon.

Grace Lore LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Leader of the Official Opposition ......................................................................................................................................Trevor Halford Leader of the Third Party .................................................................................................................................................Jeremy Valeriote Deputy Speaker ......................................................................................................................................................................

Mable Elmore Assistant Deputy Speaker .................................................................................................................................................Lorne Doerkson Deputy Chair, Committee of the Whole ......................................................................................................................George Anderson Clerk of the Legislative Assembly....................................................................................................................................Kate Ryan-Lloyd Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel ......................................................................................................................Seunghee Suzie Seo Deputy Clerk of the Legislative Assembly...............................................................................................................

Artour Sogomonian Clerk of Committees .............................................................................................................................................................. Jennifer Arril Committee Clerk ......................................................................................................................................................................

Karan Riarh Committee Clerk .........................................................................................................................................................................Darryl Hol Senior Legal Counsel .................................................................................................................................................................Hayley Hill Sergeant-at-Arms ..................................................................................................................................................................

Ray Robitaille Director of Hansard Services .......................................................................................................................................D’ Arcy McPherson Legislative Librarian ...............................................................................................................................................................Peter Gourlay

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF MEMBERS BY PARTY BC NDP Anderson, Hon. Brittny ........................................... Kootenay Central Anderson, George ................................................ Nanaimo-Lantzville Arora, Rohini ....................................................................Burnaby East Bailey, Hon. Brenda ................................Vancouver–South Granville Beare, Hon.

Lisa .......................................Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows Begg, Garry .................................................................Surrey-Guildford Blatherwick, Jennifer ....................................Coquitlam-Maillardville Boyle, Hon. Christine .............................Vancouver–Little Mountain Brar, Hon. Jagrup ......................................................Surrey-Fleetwood Chandra Herbert, Hon. Spencer ..................... Vancouver–West End Chant, Susie .............................................

North Vancouver–Seymour Choi, Paul ..................................................Burnaby South–Metrotown Chouhan, Hon. Raj ................................. Burnaby–New Westminster Chow, George ....................................................Vancouver-Fraserview Davidson, Hon. Tamara / Laanas ...........North Coast–Haida Gwaii Dhir, Sunita .............................................................Vancouver-Langara Dix, Hon. Adrian .................................................. Vancouver-Renfrew Eby, Hon. David, KC .......................................

Vancouver–Point Grey Elmore, Mable ................................................. Vancouver-Kensington Farnworth, Hon. Mike .................................................Port Coquitlam Gibson, Hon. Diana ........................................Oak Bay–Gordon Head Glumac, Hon. Rick ...................................... Port Moody–Burquitlam Greene, Hon. Kelly ..............................................Richmond-Steveston Higginson, Stephanie ........................................Ladysmith-Oceanside Kahlon, Hon. Ravi .............................................................. Delta North Kang, Hon.

Anne ......................................................... Burnaby Centre Krieger, Hon. Nina ...............................................Victoria–Swan Lake Lajeunesse, Dana ..............................................Juan de Fuca–Malahat Lore, Hon. Grace .................................................Victoria–Beacon Hill Ma, Hon. Bowinn ................................... North Vancouver–Lonsdale Malcolmson, Hon. Sheila .........................Nanaimo–Gabriola Island Morissette, Steve ...................................................Kootenay Monashee Neill, Hon. Randene ............................

Powell River–Sunshine Coast Osborne, Hon. Josie ....................................... Mid Island–Pacific Rim Parmar, Hon. Ravi ...............................................Langford-Highlands Phillip, Joan / Amshen .....................................Vancouver-Strathcona Popham, Hon. Lana ........................................................ Saanich South Rotchford, Darlene ...............................................Esquimalt-Colwood Routledge, Janet .............................................................Burnaby North Sandhu, Harwinder ......................................................

Vernon-Lumby Shah, Amna ............................................................. Surrey City Centre Sharma, Hon. Niki, KC ....................................... Vancouver-Hastings Sunner, Hon. Jessie ....................................................... Surrey-Newton Toporowski, Debra / Qwulti’stunaat .......................Cowichan Valley Whiteside, Hon. Jennifer ...................New Westminster–Coquitlam Wickens, Hon. Jodie ............................. Coquitlam–Burke Mountain Yung, Hon.

Terry .................................................Vancouver-Yaletown CONSERV ATIVE PARTY OF BC Banman, Bruce .......................................................... Abbotsford South Bhangu, Harman .................................................. Langley-Abbotsford Bird, Rosalyn ............................................. Prince George–Valemount Block, Lynne ..............................................West Vancouver–Capilano Chapman, Brent .................................................................Surrey South Clare, Sheldon ....................................

Prince George–North Cariboo Davis, Pete ..................................................................Kootenay Rockies Day, Brennan ........................................................... Courtenay-Comox Dew, Gavin ..................................................................Kelowna-Mission Dhaliwal, Mandeep .......................................................... Surrey North Doerkson, Lorne .....................................................

Cariboo-Chilcotin Gasper, Reann .......................................................Abbotsford-Mission Giddens, Kiel ..............................................Prince George–Mackenzie Halford, Trevor ......................................................Surrey–White Rock Hartwell, Sharon ..............................................Bulkley Valley–Stikine Hepner, Linda ................................................Surrey–Serpentine River Kindy, Anna ........................................................................North Island Kooner, Steve ............................................Richmond-Queensborough Loewen, Kristina ..........................................................

Kelowna Centre Luck, Tony ..........................................................................Fraser-Nicola Maahs, Heather ......................................................... Chilliwack North McCall, Macklin .........................................West Kelowna–Peachland McInnis, Scott ......................................... Columbia River–Revelstoke Milobar, Peter ............................................................

Kamloops Centre Mok, Lawrence ...........................................................Maple Ridge East Neufeld, Korky ............................................................Abbotsford West Neufeld, Larry ...........................................................Peace River South Paton, Ian ..............................................................................Delta South Rattée, Claire .................................................................................Skeena Rustad, John ...................................................................Nechako Lakes Stamer, Ward .........................................Kamloops–North Thompson Tepper, Br yan ............................................................

Surrey-Panorama Toor, Jody ............................................................Langley-Willowbrook Van Popta, Misty..............................................Langley–Walnut Grove Warbus, Á’a:líya ..............................................Chilliwack–Cultus Lake Wat, Teresa .........................................................Richmond-Bridgeport Williams, David ...............................................Salmon Arm–Shuswap Wilson, Donegal ............................................Boundary-Similkameen BC GREEN PARTY Botterell, Rob .......................................Saanich North and the Islands Valeriote, Jeremy .....................................

West Vancouver–Sea to Sky INDEPENDENT Armstrong, Tara .....................Kelowna–Lake Country–Coldstream Boultbee, Amelia .............................................Penticton-Summerland Brodie, Dallas .................................................... Vancouver-Quilchena Chan, Hon ..................................................................Richmond Centre Kealy, Jordan ............................................................. Peace River North Sturko, Elenore .........................................................

Surrey-Cloverdale PARTY STANDINGS Total seats – 93 BC NDP – 47 | Conservative Party of BC – 38 | BC Green Party – 2 | Independent – 6

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF RIDINGS A Abbotsford-Mission ........................................................Reann Gasper Abbotsford South ........................................................... Bruce Banman Abbotsford West .............................................................Korky Neufeld B Boundary-Similkameen .............................................Donegal Wilson Bulkley Valley–Stikine ............................................... Sharon Hartwell Burnaby Centre ...........................................................Hon.

Anne Kang Burnaby East ......................................................................Rohini Arora Burnaby–New Westminster .................................. Hon. Raj Chouhan Burnaby North ..............................................................Janet Routledge Burnaby South–Metrotown .................................................. Paul Choi C Cariboo-Chilcotin .......................................................Lorne Doerkson Chilliwack–Cultus Lake .............................................. Á’a:líya Warbus Chilliwack North ..........................................................

Heather Maahs Columbia River–Revelstoke ...........................................Scott McInnis Coquitlam–Burke Mountain .............................. Hon. Jodie Wickens Coquitlam-Maillardville .................................... Jennifer Blatherwick Courtenay-Comox ............................................................ Brennan Day Cowichan Valley ....................... Debra Toporowski / Qwulti’stunaat D Delta North ................................................................Hon.

Ravi Kahlon Delta South ...............................................................................Ian Paton E Esquimalt-Colwood ................................................Darlene Rotchford F Fraser-Nicola .......................................................................... Tony Luck J Juan de Fuca–Malahat ...............................................Dana Lajeunesse K Kamloops Centre ............................................................. Peter Milobar Kamloops–North Thompson .........................................

Ward Stamer Kelowna Centre ........................................................... Kristina Loewen Kelowna–Lake Country–Coldstream ......................Tara Armstrong Kelowna-Mission ..................................................................Gavin Dew Kootenay Central ............................................ Hon. Brittny Anderson Kootenay Monashee ....................................................Steve Morissette Kootenay Rockies................................................................... Pete Davis L Ladysmith-Oceanside ........................................

Stephanie Higginson Langford-Highlands ................................................ Hon. Ravi Parmar Langley-Abbotsford ....................................................Harman Bhangu Langley–Walnut Grove ..............................................Misty Van Popta Langley-Willowbrook ............................................................ Jody Toor M Maple Ridge East ............................................................Lawrence Mok Maple Ridge–Pitt Meadows ........................................Hon. Lisa Beare Mid Island–Pacific Rim ........................................ Hon.

Josie Osborne N Nanaimo–Gabriola Island ..........................Hon. Sheila Malcolmson Nanaimo-Lantzville ................................................. George Anderson Nechako Lakes ....................................................................John Rustad New Westminster–Coquitlam .................... Hon. Jennifer Whiteside North Coast–Haida Gwaii ............Hon. Laanas / Tamara Davidson North Island ........................................................................Anna Kindy North Vancouver–Lonsdale .....................................Hon.

Bowinn Ma North Vancouver–Seymour ...............................................Susie Chant O Oak Bay–Gordon Head ......................................... Hon. Diana Gibson P Peace River North ..............................................................Jordan Kealy Peace River South ............................................................Larry Neufeld Penticton-Summerland .............................................. Amelia Boultbee Port Coquitlam ................................................. Hon. Mike Farnworth Port Moody–Burquitlam ........................................Hon.

Rick Glumac Powell River–Sunshine Coast ............................. Hon. Randene Neill Prince George–Mackenzie ...............................................Kiel Giddens Prince George–North Cariboo ......................................Sheldon Clare Prince George–Valemount ...............................................Rosalyn Bird R Richmond-Bridgeport .......................................................... Teresa Wat Richmond Centre .................................................................. Hon Chan Richmond-Queensborough ............................................

Steve Kooner Richmond-Steveston ...............................................Hon. Kelly Greene S Saanich North and the Islands ....................................... Rob Botterell Saanich South ......................................................... Hon.

Lana Popham Salmon Arm–Shuswap ................................................David Williams Skeena ..................................................................................Claire Rattée Surrey City Centre ...............................................................Amna Shah Surrey-Cloverdale .......................................................... Elenore Sturko Surrey-Fleetwood ....................................................... Hon. Jagrup Brar Surrey-Guildford .................................................................

Garry Begg Surrey-Newton ........................................................ Hon. Jessie Sunner Surrey North ............................................................Mandeep Dhaliwal Surrey-Panorama ..............................................................Br yan Tepper Surrey–Serpentine River ................................................

Linda Hepner Surrey South ..................................................................Brent Chapman Surrey–White Rock .......................................................Trevor Halford V Vancouver-Fraserview .....................................................George Chow Vancouver-Hastings ........................................ Hon. Niki Sharma, KC Vancouver-Kensington ...................................................Mable Elmore Vancouver-Langara .............................................................Sunita Dhir Vancouver–Little Mountain ............................. Hon.

Christine Boyle Vancouver–Point Grey .........................................Hon. David Eby, KC Vancouver-Quilchena ......................................................Dallas Brodie Vancouver-Renfrew ................................................... Hon. Adrian Dix Vancouver–South Granville ................................ Hon. Brenda Bailey Vancouver-Strathcona ..................................... Amshen / Joan Phillip Vancouver–West End .......................Hon. Spencer Chandra Herbert Vancouver-Yaletown ..................................................Hon.

Terry Yung Vernon-Lumby ....................................................... Harwinder Sandhu Victoria–Beacon Hill ................................................. Hon. Grace Lore Victoria–Swan Lake ................................................Hon. Nina Krieger W West Kelowna–Peachland ..........................................Macklin McCall West Vancouver–Capilano ................................................Lynne Block West Vancouver–Sea to Sky ...................................... Jeremy Valeriote

CONTENTS Tuesday, April 28, 2026 Afternoon Sitting Page Orders of the Day Committee of Supply ...................................................................................................................................................... 7017 Estimates: Ministry of Health (continued) Claire Rattée Hon.

Josie Osborne Brennan Day Proceedings in the Douglas Fir Room Committee of the Whole ................................................................................................................................................ 7041 Bill 16 — Miscellaneous Statutes Amendment Act, 2026 (continued) Larry Neufeld Hon. Adrian Dix Harman Bhangu Jeremy Valeriote Hon. Niki Sharma Steve Kooner Rob Botterell Tony Luck Hon. Christine Boyle Misty Van Popta Macklin McCall Hon. Nina Krieger

7017 TUESDAY, APRIL 28, 2026 The House met at 1:31 p.m. [The Speaker in the chair.] Orders of the Day Hon. Mike Farnworth: In this chamber, I call con - tinued estimates debate for the Ministry of Health. In

Section A, in the Douglas Fir Room, I call continued committee stage on Bill 16. The House in Committee,

Section B. The committee met at 1:32 p.m. [Lorne Doerkson in the chair.] Committee of Supply ESTIMATES: MINISTRY OF HEALTH (continued) The Chair: Good afternoon, Members. I’m going to call just a very brief recess while we get our teams in place for our estimates this afternoon. The committee recessed from 1:32 p.m. to 1:33 p.m. [Lorne Doerkson in the chair.] The Chair: We’ll call the chamber back to order, where we’re going to contemplate the estimates of the Ministry of Health. On Vote 32: ministry operations, $35,968,875,000 (continued).

Claire Rattée: Moving on with Red Fish Healing Cen - tre, I just want to talk about this a little bit further, and I appreciate that update. I’m hopeful that we’ll hear some kind of an announcement coming forward soon. With the current Red Fish Healing Centre, I’m wonder- ing what the average wait time for admission at the Red Fish Healing Centre was for the fiscal year ’24-25. [1:35 p.m.] Jeremy Valeriote: I seek leave to make an introduction. Leave granted. The Chair: Carry on, Member. Introductions by Members Jeremy V aleriote: I’m pleased to introduce constitu - ents Andrew Schultz and Susan Watkins.

Both helped me get elected. They split their time between White Rock and Whistler, and they’re in the back here. If you could all please make them feel welcome. The Chair: Indeed, welcome to everyone in our cham - ber today. We are going to hear the estimates of the Min - istry of Health this afternoon. Debate Continued Hon. Josie Osborne: It’s going to take a few moments to get that information, so I just wanted to give the mem - ber an opportunity to ask another question if she wishes.

Claire Rattée: While we’re at it, if we could also find out what the current occupancy rate is for that centre, that would be helpful. I don’t know if the minister would prefer me to move on to a different topic while that other infor - mation is being gathered. Hon. Josie Osborne: It depends on the member. It’ll take a few minutes to get, so I’m happy to move on and come back to this when we get it. Claire Rattée: I’ll wait. I have one other one that might be useful to just tack on to this, if it’s helpful, because it’s in the same vein.

Just generally, what is the current average wait time for author- ity-funded substance use treatment and recovery beds for the last fiscal year, please? [1:40 p.m.] Hon. Josie Osborne: All right. First, I’ll start with Red Fish Healing Centre for Mental Health and Addiction. Again, this 105-bed facility provides treatment for people with the most severe, complex mental health and sub - stance use challenges or concurrent disorders. It has pa - tients, clients from all over the province that come down to Coquitlam. The centre is really filling a service gap for clients who may otherwise end up in custody.

They may end up in emergency departments instead of getting the help that they need. The wait times vary by regional health authority, de - pending on the number of allotted beds in the centre and the volume of referrals. The program, it’s fair to say, con - sistently receives more referrals than it can admit annu - ally, and it’s consistently full. So while there isn’t a precise tracking of occupancy levels such as the member may be asking for, because it is not tracked that way, I can say it is consistently full.

There’s a minimal amount of time that there would be an empty bed, as patients leave and new patients enter. Of course, knowing that volume of referral is higher than what the centre can currently accommodate, that’s

7018 B ritish Columbia Debates T uesday, April 28, 2026 why the program is expanding out, and we understand and recognize the need for that. The wait-list data. I will read some information into the record here. As of December 31, 2025, there were 95 clients who were on the wait-list. I’ll break that down by health authority. Fraser Health had 20; Interior Health, 24; Northern Health, ten; Vancouver Coastal Health, 26; Island Health, 15; and the Provincial Health Services Au - thority, zero.

The average wait time to admission for clients admit - ted over the last calendar year, January to December 2025, was 97.9 days. If the member is interested, I can break that out further into regional health authorities. Again, I just want to comment on the wide range of wait times that we do see between health authorities, pri - marily due to the volume of referrals that would be com - ing in from different regions. For example, Island Health refers a higher number of clients or patients relative to their population than some of the other health authorities, so that accounts for some of the difference.

But on average, for all British Columbians on the wait-list, it is 97.9 days. [1:45 p.m.] The member also asked about wait times for substance use and treatment and recovery beds, and I can tell her. After estimates last year, we wrote to the member and fol - lowed up with the median wait time by different health authorities for ’23-24. The member is asking for the same data for ’24-25, so I’m going to read that into the record. I’m also going to add the first two quarters of 2025, be - cause we do have that data as well, of the ’25-26 fiscal. For Fraser Health, in ’24-25, the median wait time was 38.3 days.

In Interior Health, it was 26.5 days. Northern Health was 6.1 days. The Provincial Health Services Au - thority was 21.8 days. Vancouver Coastal Health was 43.5 days, and Island Health was 26.2 days. Overall, the prov - incial median wait time was 30.8 days, which is very simi - lar to the information from ’23-24 that the member has, where the overall provincial median wait time was 31 days.

In the first two quarters of this fiscal, in Fraser, we see the median wait times have come down to 32.8 days; in In- terior Health, 21.6 days; in Northern Health, 9.9 days; the Provincial Health Services Authority, 23.1 days; Vancou - ver Coastal Health, 27.1 days; and Island Health, 25.3 days, for an overall provincial median wait time of 25.6 days. Claire Rattée: On the first piece, on the Red Fish Heal - ing Centre, the ’23-24 fiscal year, it was actually 70 days that was the wait time for Red Fish. Going up to 97.9 now is a pretty significant increase in the number of days that people are waiting.

No real question there, just pointing that out, but obviously, this is something that seriously needs attention immediately. On the authority-funded substance use treatment and recovery beds, I am glad to hear that the wait times are coming down slightly, but in this first quarter, that is a significant increase for Northern Health. For obvious rea - sons, that concerns me. It directly relates to my riding. I would say that’s a very substantial increase and a con- fusing one. We actually just had our first treatment centre that’s actually a proper bed-based treatment centre open.

I don’t know if that has a role in more people maybe poten - tially seeking treatment, because there is finally an option and an opportunity that is available there, but I find that a bit concerning. Budget 2023 promised another 375 new substance beds over the following three years, and those three years have passed. I just am wondering if those beds are currently in service. [1:50 p.m.] Hon. Josie Osborne: Just going back to the last ques - tion, the member commented that Northern Health is see - ing a jump in the median wait time from 6.1 days to 9.9 days.

I wanted to explain that one of the reasons why that number has changed so significantly is because there were a number of services in the Northern Health Authority that were not reporting in, and as of the beginning of last fiscal, they are reporting in. Having more services report - ing in gives us a more accurate understanding. It is not that the existing services that were report - ing have seen an increase in wait times, but rather that the pool of data has changed, and the median wait time, therefore, has changed.

The member asked about the commitment around 375 substance use treatment recovery beds that was made in Budget 2023. As of January 2026, 272 of those have been built and implemented, and the rest are currently in active planning and development. As they are opened, then an - nouncements will be made about that. So we are well on track to meet that commitment. Claire Rattée: Just out of curiosity, though, that was a commitment that it would have been completed already. So what happened? Why didn’t we get to that number, if there’s specific reasoning around why we haven’t achieved that goal?

What is the timeline for the rest of those beds to be completed? [1:55 p.m.] Hon. Josie Osborne: An update, even, from the num - ber I gave of 272 implemented as of January 2026. Between January 2026 and now, another 50 — bringing the total to 322, which is just 53 shy of the commitment of 375. As I said, those remaining 53 beds are actively underway. So these are not projects or commitments that have been re- paced or slowed or cancelled or paused or anything. To the member’s question, “Why haven’t you hit the mark exactly as of the end of fiscal?” I think there’s no extraordinary reason for this.

It’s the typical process of the planning, the procurement, the construction. There

Tuesday, April 28, 2026 B ritish Columbia Debates 7019 are various reasons why sometimes capital projects will slow down a little bit, but we are very, very close. The an - nouncements for those remaining beds are imminent, within months. We know just how much those beds are needed. It’s an important accomplishment and, again, just builds on government’s commitment to expand the sub - stance use and treatment recovery options that are avail - able for people. Claire Rattée: Thank you to the minister. I appreciate that.

I’m going to focus the rest of my time, probably, on treatment beds and similar types of issues, and then we’ll see where we’re at and if I can get to a few other programs. I want to start by just reading something into the rec - ord here, and I want to start by saying that these are not my

definitions. These are

definitions that came from gov - ernment websites. I’m going to talk about two different types of treat - ment beds that are outlined in the documents we refer - enced earlier — I appreciate the minister getting those to me — around substance use and treatment beds that exist currently within our province. There are a number of different types of beds, but I want to focus on bed-based treatment versus supportive recovery services or support - ive recovery beds. Bed-based treatment refers to structured, live-in sub - stance use treatment programs, often called residential treatment.

These programs are time-limited and provide intensive, evidence-based therapy and support in a sub - stance-free environment. According to Interior Health, bed-based treatment services provide you with a struc - tured, live-in program where your treatment goals are supported through assessment, evidence-based treatment and skill-building. Similarly, Fraser Health describes them as time-limited treatment in structured, substance- free, live-in environments, addressing the physical, emo - tional, social and other needs of each person.

In practice, this means residents receive daily program - ming, such as individual and group counselling, edu - cational workshops, life skills training and other thera - peutic activities, all delivered by qualified professionals; counsellors; addiction specialists; and, often, health care providers. Now, the definition for a supportive recovery service or a supportive recovery bed is that it provides low-to-mod - erate intensity support in a live-in, recovery-oriented en - vironment, rather than formal clinical treatment.

In Brit - ish Columbia, supportive recovery services are bed-based or live-in services that provide low-to-moderate intensity substance use services and supports in a communal and supportive environment. These are, essentially, recovery homes or residences where individuals can live temporar - ily while they work on their recovery goals, such as main - taining abstinence or transitioning to the next stage of treatment. [2:00 p.m.] Unlike intensive treatment facilities, supportive recov - ery houses do not typically provide formal clinical care or therapy on site.

Instead, they offer a safe, substance-free living space with peer support, basic structure and links to community services. A couple of important distinctions there between the two. Qualified professionals; structured, evidence-based intensive therapies; and supports in a substance-free en - vironment — there are a few distinctions there. I want to make it clear that I’m not making those distinctions be - cause I am in any way not supportive of the concept of building out supportive recovery services, because I am. But I think they’re a second step for most people.

As somebody who’s lived through this system, I would have benefited greatly from that, but I still needed to go to a bed-based treatment centre. The reason I ask that is because when I received that document last year, I was pretty surprised to see — I’m hoping memory serves here — that there were only 806 publicly funded bed-based treatment beds in the prov - ince last year. When I’m looking at the new numbers that I just received today, there’s overall an increase of 47 beds versus the March update that I received in 2025.

It’s good that there’s an increase, but the increase is in some strange areas in my opinion. In adult supportive recovery beds, there was an increase of 28 — great. Adult withdrawal management, increase of 16. Adult transitional services, there was a decrease of eight. I understand that sometimes these things can happen due to contract issues, whatever. I’m not necessarily honing in on that one. Youth supportive recovery beds, an increase of eight. Sobering and assessment beds, an increase of five. Then where it didn’t change at all is…. Adult bed- based treatment, no change. Youth bed-based treatment, no change.

Youth withdrawal management, no change. Youth transitional services, no change. Tertiary substance use concurrent care, no change. I have some concerns around that. I have some con - cerns that when we’re talking about those 375 beds, maybe a lot of the focus has been put on supportive recovery beds rather than on bed-based treatment. I think that we need to make sure that we’re focusing on bed-based treatment and building that out.

I would appreciate the minister’s comments just on that breakdown and, looking at those numbers year over year, why that wasn’t the focus, why we didn’t focus on bed- based treatment rather than supportive recovery services or “and.” But like I said, there was no change at all in the numbers apparently. I do apologize. I had to do this very quickly, to com - pare the two documents. But if those numbers are correct, I do have some concerns that we didn’t place any focus

7020 B ritish Columbia Debates T uesday, April 28, 2026 there, so I’d just appreciate the minister’s comments on that, please. [2:05 p.m.] Hon. Josie Osborne: Thank you to the member for the question.

I want to approach this answer not talking strictly about a comparison of one year to the next year but, instead, about government’s approach to building out a continuum of care since 2017. [2:10 p.m.] I want to remark that at that time, in 2017, there were far fewer services available for people, and it has been a consistent and committed approach of this government to build out that continuum of care, again, using evidence and expertise that is provided to us by professionals in this space and listening to people with lived and living experience.

Over the last some years, eight years, since 2017, we have seen the addition of 829, in total, new publicly funded substance use beds of different kinds. The member broke it down very well between adult and youth, between detox or withdrawal management, sobering and assess - ment beds, to treatment and supportive recovery, transi - tion beds. These are all different types of bed-based ser - vices that people can access. But the system of mental health and substance use care is not just about those bed-based services. It is also about the provision of outpatient services.

It is about a person who may go into a withdrawal management facility and then be able to transition to OAT and use those outpatient services and not necessarily need bed-based treatment. But there are many who do. So the system needs to con - stantly recalibrate itself based on the needs of what we are seeing. As the toxic drug supply itself changes, we are seeing how those needs change.

For example, as I know the mem- ber understands, recently decisions have been made in cer- tain withdrawal management facilities to move from a very short-term stay of three to five days to a three-week stay because of the difference in what we are actually seeing in the toxic drug supply and the addition of benzodiazepines, for example; of medetomidine; other things. As care providers are grappling with how to best med - ically assist and treat people who are going through with - drawal from some of those substances, it requires different lengths of stay, different forms of care.

I do want to stay away from directly comparing the number of beds just on one year to the next and say that we continue to follow the work that’s being provided by health authorities in their assessment of patients, of what treatment and recovery services are most appropriate for clients.

So when somebody asks for help with addiction ser - vices, the health authority will gather information about their recovery goals; about their substance use history; about the level of support, including the level of medica - tion support that’s required by people — really finding a service that fits best for them, what is available. Clients then are referred either to treatment services or to bed- based recovery options or supportive recovery options if the more intense levels of treatment are not needed.

I also just want to speak, too, about Road to Recovery, this made-in-B.C. program using the evidence that we see before us to help a person quickly access services and as - sessment and then be able to be paired or matched with the right service for them at that time in a way that has them not experiencing the gaps that far too many people have faced in the past and they continue to do today. By bringing down wait times, as we have seen in the St.

Paul’s Hospital–based Road to Recovery program, from a median of 28 down to just eight or even one day for those who most, most urgently need withdrawal management, for example, and then ensuring that they are able to move through the system of care in a way that is most appropri - ate for them…. The success rates, the evidence that we are seeing coming out of the Road to Recovery program at St. Paul’s is incredibly promising, and that is why we’re ex - panding this model of care across the province. I hope that that helps to answer some of the member’s questions.

Again, I just want to point back to the import - ance of building out a continuum of care that provides dif- ferent models — some bed-based, some not bed-based — and being able to adjust and recalibrate as is needed, as we move through time. The underlying thing here, though, is that there is a need for more of all of these services, and we recognize that. The toxic drug crisis has not abated. We still see that, and we see the way that it is changing. We know there is more work to do even outside of…. We are talking mostly here about treatments and recovery.

But much earlier in the education, in the prevention, in the early intervention programs for people, whether it be helping people manage pain without opioids, whether it be working with children, especially those who are high - est risk — identifying them and supporting them in the school system, in community settings…. This is all part of the mental health and substance use continuum of care that British Columbians deserve and need. [2:15 p.m.] Claire Rattée: Thank you to the minister for that.

I was going to continue to focus on this topic, but there was something interesting that was mentioned there around prevention and education. I know that the minister knows that’s something that I’m very passionate about. I’m curious if the minister can point to how much in her budget is allocated for prevention and education for youth when it comes to substance use. [2:20 p.m.]

Tuesday, April 28, 2026 B ritish Columbia Debates 7021 Hon. Josie Osborne: Thank you to the member for the question. I appreciate the opportunity to talk about the required and much-needed emphasis on prevention and early intervention. We know that the majority of mental health chal - lenges often have that onset in childhood or adolescence. We know that youth today are facing some very un - precedented challenges. It’s not just stemming from the COVID-19 pandemic, although that certainly has had an impact.

The toxic drug crisis, climate-related emergencies in weather, pressures from school, bullying, relationship mat- ters, issues with families — these are all things that place an enormous burden on children and youth today. So be - ing able to support children and youth with mental health resources and that early intervention to prevent small problems from getting worse — and, potentially, even to the point of substance use — is a very important focus of the work that we’re doing. Again, just building out that seamless system of care.

I don’t have one specific number that I can provide to the member that encompasses all of the mental health and substance use education and prevention supports that are provided for children and youth. The ministry undertakes most of its work in a program fashion. There are several different programs. I’m going to speak about those in a moment. Those have figures attached to them. I know the member is very familiar, for example, with Foundry.

With 20 Foundry centres open now, 15 more in development — that number might even be a little bit out - dated — and satellite Foundry locations being announced as well, the ministry has provided $74.9 million, over three years, to enhance the Foundry services. Foundry also receives $2 million every year in the base budget — that’s in base funding — for the provision of PreVenture in schools.

PreVenture is an important pro - gram that is age-targeted and helps youth identify chal - lenges and ways of managing and handling those chal - lenges that help to prevent turning to substances to deal with issues that youth are facing. In addition to that, we do undertake partnerships with organizations like the Canadian Mental Health Associa - tion of B.C. and Confident Parents, Thriving Kids, which is a service that is funded through the ministry for chil - dren aged 3 to 12 experiencing behavioural or anxiety challenges. We do work with other partners like Child Health B.C. and the B.C.

Healthy Child Development Alli - ance, funding them for social and emotional development programs in early years. We have the early psychosis intervention program that provides some rapid and comprehensive treatment for youth and young adults aged 13 to 30 who are experien - cing early signs of psychosis. This program was funded and expanded in 2021, adding approximately 100 new FTEs across the province, and received further investment in Budget 2023. Again, this work continues through to today.

The in - tegrated child and youth teams that we’ve talked about in the chamber here before — these community-based multidisciplinary teams are focused on children that are identified and youth that are identified as being most at- risk and are helping to deliver these wraparound mental health and substance use services and supports for them. Just a few more numbers here. With the Confident Par - ents, Thriving Kids program with the Canadian Mental Health Association, the ministry provides $6.818 million in funding.

An additional program with Child Health B.C., called feelings first, has another $235,000 in annual funding. The early psychosis intervention expansion through Budget 2021, $53 million, and increasing that funding to $75 million in ongoing funding through Budget 2023 for those 100 FTEs that I spoke of. Then the province has committed $131.5 million over three years to implement the integrated child and youth teams in 20 school districts.

Again, I just want to point to the fact that this is not wholly within the Ministry of Health and that our part - ners in the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Children and Family Development are an important part of this, too, in providing these kinds of mental health and substance use supports to children and youth. [2:25 p.m.] Claire Rattée: I appreciate that response, and I’m glad that the minister mentioned Foundry. I have a lot of ques - tions on Foundry that I don’t know if I’ll have time to get to because I need to get through these ones around treat - ment beds.

Personally, I would actually categorize Foundry as not being that effective for the purposes of prevention amongst youth. I’ve had the opportunity to tour a few, speak to quite a few of the people that do program deliv - ery, read through everything that is available online and on the app, and there’s very little in the way of prevention and education. Most of the materials explicitly make mention of just trying to use safely and encouraging youth to, effectively, maybe curtail their use to a more reasonable level if it has become problematic.

There’s very, very soft language be - ing used, throughout all of the documents that I’ve read, that really downplays the dangers and the harms. When this is being targeted at young children, I think that it’s extremely inappropriate, in my opinion, to do that. Hopefully, if we can get through these questions, I would love to get into some on Foundry. I’m wondering if the ministry — and I hope they do — tracks how many people fall off wait-lists waiting for

7022 B ritish Columbia Debates T uesday, April 28, 2026 treatment or for withdrawal management without access - ing any services. [2:30 p.m.] Hon. Josie Osborne: Thank you to the member for the question around whether the province tracks people who fall off wait-lists. First of all to say that’s a really important point. The intention here is to build out a seamless system so that people don’t experience those gaps in care.

Seeing the establishment of Access Central as part of Road to Recovery in Vancouver and now seeing Access Central roll out to three other regional health authorities, with Northern Health coming on later this year…. [2:35 p.m.] That is absolutely the intention, to be able to provide that rapid response to people and then maintain a rela - tionship with that person so that they do not fall off of a wait-list as they’re waiting for the care that they are as - sessed for as being needed at that time.

We don’t currently have a provincewide system of be - ing able to track people in that manner, but that’s the work that we’re moving towards, and it’s an important part of building out the system. Working on this Road to Recov - ery, working with Access Central to ensure that active en - gagement and to reduce the number of no-shows, for ex - ample, we are already seeing the reduction in wait times to access withdrawal management. Very, very positive re - sults coming out of Road to Recovery.

But at the same time, establishing other ways into the system — for example, the OAT line, the opioid therapy line and treatment line and the rapid access addiction clin- ics — to provide people with that quick access into the sys - tem. Then build out, as we’ve been talking about during estimates here, the different types of bed-based and out - patient-based care that people need as they move on that road to recovery and move through their healing journey. I do want to come back to the member’s comments about Foundry.

I recently had a detailed briefing with leaders at Foun - dry, who showed me some of the results of their evalua - tion and the metrics that they are recording and seeing — noting things like 84 percent of the youth who use Foun - dry services…. It has a positive impact on their ability to cope, which we know is an important part of dealing with mental health challenges and preventing small problems, again, from getting worse and getting to places where we don’t want to see any youth, when it comes to substance use and the choices that they’re making.

I would like to offer the member a detailed briefing both on Road to Recovery and on Foundry services, to bring her as up to date as I am, on the really promising re - sults that we’re seeing out of both programs and then give her an opportunity, too, to ask staff questions about that so she has the fullest understanding possible. Claire Rattée: Thank you to the minister. I do appreci - ate that, and I would be happy to do that. Just to clarify, too, that I think that building out youth centres is excellent work. I think it’s incredibly important work, and I support that. I think we need lots more youth centres.

That’s not the issue I take. The issue I take is with, for lack of a better term, the curriculum around substance use when it comes to what’s happening in these youth centres, particularly given the fact that it’s also aimed at children that are quite young in a lot of circumstances, who likely aren’t using substances. As somebody that started at a very young age, I do know it happens and it’s possible, but it’s not the norm. Certainly, for ones that are using, I would hope that our goal would be abstinence for young people especially.

Even if ideologically we disagree about whether or not people can safely use dangerous substances, I think most of us can agree here that youth cannot. Their brains are not fully developed. There is no safe amount of drugs for them to be taking. So I think that that just scientifically doesn’t make any sense. The reason I made that comment was because I actually attended an information session when they were looking at putting a Foundry centre into my community.

I don’t know the exact ages of all the kids and youth that were in the room, but I can tell you for sure that there were kids as young as ten, maybe younger. The program coordinator said, and this is a direct quote: “We can help youth to have safe supplies when they use substances so they’re not being harmed, or we can help them to just decrease their use to a more manageable level.” Nothing about encouraging them to not do drugs.

Nothing about educating them on the dangers of doing drugs, not to mention the fact that most of these children had probably never had conversations around drugs, be- cause they were quite young. So that was putting it in their heads, and I didn’t much appreciate that, personally. If it was my children, I would have been pretty upset. That is why I had raised that, and like I said, I hope that maybe we can have — as the minister had offered, and I appreciate that — an opportunity to sit down and kind of talk through some of that.

Just again, as somebody that experienced that in my youth, I don’t think that those comments would have been helpful to me. I think they would have encouraged me to continue with some pretty destructive behaviour and know that I was going to have somebody on my side to back me up on it and encourage me to keep on that path. What I needed was very different from what that is offering. I want to talk a little bit about the per-diem rates for treatment beds because they vary greatly by health authority.

Tuesday, April 28, 2026 B ritish Columbia Debates 7023 Sorry, I don’t know. Maybe I’m not using the right term but…. Interjection. [2:40 p.m.] Claire Rattée: Oh, the per-diem rates. Yes. For beds, right? For treatment beds, supportive recovery beds, that sort of thing. My understanding at this point is that they vary by health authority. We had the opportunity very briefly to touch on this earlier in estimates, about some of the issues that we can see with a regionalized health authority model simply because, obviously, there is not consistency throughout the province, which can be a problem.

These rates do vary throughout the province, quite substantially in some cases. Different health authorities pay different amounts, and in not one of them does it ac - tually cover the entire cost, the real cost of what it costs to operate that bed. It has created a little bit of a problem for people that are on the public system because it has forced a lot of recovery centres to actually have to prioritize private-pay clients — which they usually don’t want to do, unless they’re very much in it for profit.

Typically, they want to be serving people that are underserved, but they’re forced to priori - tize those private-pay clients because they can’t afford to operate their centre without that extra revenue. I would like the minister’s comments on whether or not this is something that’s being addressed — trying to cre - ate a standard rate throughout the province — or if it’s going to be regionalized. To be fair, I can see where that may be beneficial because cost of delivery in a place like Northern Health is likely going to be a lot higher than it is in the Lower Mainland.

But the reality is that it’s almost opposite what those rates are right now. I would like to know if there’s work being done to ad - dress that discrepancy, to try and make some kind of a standardization of that and to actually look at making sure that it reflects the real cost. In some cases, it’s as much as half of the true cost of operating that bed per day.

As you can imagine, many of these providers are non- profits, so it has put a significant burden on them through fundraising and other sources of revenue and then, like I said, the need to prioritize those private clients, which does a huge disservice to some of the most vulnerable people that need access the most. [2:45 p.m. - 2:50 p.m.] Hon. Josie Osborne: Thank you to the member for the question. Sorry for the delay there.

As the member knows, and she has rightly pointed out, there’s a complexity to the way that substance use treat - ment and recovery beds are funded with our partners at health authorities and not-for-profit facilities, for example. I just want to start out by saying how important and valued those partners are in delivering this care for people and recognize that there are facilities that do have a mix of private and publicly funded beds. And then, of course, there are facilities that have solely run with publicly funded beds.

Then, in those partners, some of them are both private-pay operators, and some of them are not-for- profit organizations as well. Public funding for substance use beds is provided to the health authorities, directly to service providers, to First Nations — through health authority funding, con - tracts, grants and per diems. The member is making the point around per diems. Of course, our goal is to provide equitable access to people and to ensure that people re - ceive that standard of care that they expect and deserve.

The member spoke about per diems and pointed out some of the issues in how we support and provide those services to the province’s most vulnerable citizens. Fund - ing is available to people who are receiving income and disability assistance via the Ministry of Social Develop - ment and Poverty Reduction and through those per-diem payments that the member is speaking of. So SDPR per diems are paid directly to the treatment or recovery provider at a set rate on behalf of those recipients.

The funding is available for people who are accessing pub - licly funded and non-funded beds, and the services have to be licensed or registered in order to receive that SDPR per-diem funding. Now, recognizing that there was a need to increase per diems, that was accomplished through Budget 2024. That increased the per-diem, daily, rates from $35.90 to $60 for registered bed-based services and from $45 to $70 for licensed bed-based services. That’s the second increase that’s been undertaken in a six-year period. The previous per-diem increase was in 2019 — the first one in ten years.

I also want to recognize and acknowledge that there’s more work to do in this place and also recognize that it’s important to continue to provide these services to clients who cannot afford, don’t have the ability to pay, and that’s why there’s a no-barrier hardship funding that health au - thorities also have processes for individuals to apply to. I think I’ll just leave it there and see if the member has a follow-up question. Claire Rattée: Thank you to the minister for that. I ap - preciate both that and the recognition that this is some - thing that needs to continue to be worked on.

I also recog - nize that it’s something that had been left for a long time. I’m completely alive to that. [2:55 p.m.] I just get a lot of complaints from treatment centres about the fact that they can’t actually operate a bed based on what they receive in ministry funding, and this is not a small portion of the population that can’t afford treat - ment. I mean, private treatment is incredibly expensive. I

7024 B ritish Columbia Debates T uesday, April 28, 2026 don’t think most working British Columbians could af - ford it. That was kind of more so what I’m getting at. Are we doing any work to try and find ways through the Health Ministry to ensure that the providers are properly being compensated for the service they’re providing for the pa - tients that are coming through there? It just seems that there is a pretty significant disparity. Like I said, in many cases, they are receiving less than half of what their actual cost to operate is. I will leave it there. I have another question.

I’m wondering if the minister could provide me with the number of how many patients last year were forced to leave their home health authority to be able to access services. Hon. Josie Osborne: This is a tough question to answer because there can be some very individual circumstances, I think, that I want to speak a little bit about. But first of all to say that while the principle remains, we know that many British Columbians want to receive care as close to home as possible. To have the support of their commun - ity, their friends, their family and their colleagues is an important thing.

That’s why, as we are building out this continuum of care when it comes to mental health and substance use supports, be it bed-based or outpatient-based, it’s really important we continue to do the work to increase access, particularly for those communities who are remote, rural, Indigenous, northern. I’m glad that this last month we were able to celebrate the fact that there will be new treatment beds opening up near Terrace, for example — including withdrawal man - agement beds in a new facility — coming within the next couple of years, building out supportive recovery.

This is important to provide, as we’ve been talking about through estimates here — the different parts of the care con - tinuum and having that easily accessible as close to home as possible. [3:00 p.m.] I was recently speaking with a First Nation about ac - cess to treatment and recovery beds, and they were talk - ing to me about the fact that some of their members travel to Vancouver Island from a northern community. I said: “Oh, that must be quite difficult to do. That’s a big journey and can be a really tough time.” I got an interesting an - swer.

In this particular case, it was described to me: “You know, that’s actually not the worst thing. We’re grateful to be able to send people to a facility that we trust, that we know, that we see the results of their program.” It is far away from home, but for some individuals, ac - tually being away from some of the sources of challenges that they are facing and being away from some of those people in their lives has been a positive thing. So it is a very individual thing. Further, there are some people, such as health care providers themselves who are experiencing substance use challenges, for whom….

They would not want to be maybe even just in their own health authority receiving treatment but not even in the province of British Colum - bia, to retain the anonymity, really, that they’re looking at and making sure that the risk and the possibility of stigma that could be applied to their situation is reduced as much as possible. Again, just coming back to the beginning of my answer, it is a difficult question to answer.

I appreciate, I think, the intention of the member about being able to increase ac - cess to care in all parts of the province, which absolutely is part of our goal as we continue to build out the mental health and substance use care continuum. Claire Rattée: I do appreciate those comments. I recog- nize that in some situations it is better to be able to leave your community. The reality, though, is that most of the time it’s not.

The main reason I asked that question was because I was curious to see, for example, how many patients from Northern Health last year had to leave the Northern Health region to be able to access care. I think everybody should have some choice. Again, this is one of the issues, I believe, with the re - gional health authority model. Yes, if there is a treatment centre that’s excellent that everybody knows they really want to go to, I think they should be able to have that choice. But they should also be able to have the choice of something that’s close to home.

Unfortunately, for a lot of people right now, that is not the case. I’m not advocating that we put a treatment centre in every community. There are some that obviously will never be able to have access to that because they’re too small, but just something that’s a little bit closer. I know we’ve spoken about it before and throughout estimates here, but even Prince George, for example…. For some - body living in my community, that’s still an eight-hour drive away. It’s not a small distance to travel.

I’m wondering what percentage of individuals who complete detox or withdrawal management are able to im - mediately access a treatment bed right now. This is some - thing we discussed last year and we’ve discussed through - out the year. There is a really deadly gap between with - drawal management and treatment. So I’m curious to see what that wait time is like currently between the two ser - vices, on average. [3:05 p.m.] Hon. Josie Osborne: Thank you to the member for the question.

I think this really gets at the heart of govern - ment’s goal around making access to treatment and re - covery as seamless as possible to reduce and eliminate the gaps that people experience. Part of that, as we’ve been talking about throughout es-

Tuesday, April 28, 2026 B ritish Columbia Debates 7025 timates, is around strengthening that full continuum of care. The addition of the beds that we’ve been discussing in estimates today is part of that. Again, there are the 829 beds that have been added over the past eight years or so, with planning underway for more. But I want to come back to the Road to Recovery model and the work that it is doing to connect people with clin - icians and specialists from the very first conversation that they have at Access Central.

Now, I’ve already talked about some of the success of the Road to Recovery model in Vancouver that has re - duced the median wait time to get into withdrawal man - agement from a median of 28 days down to 8 days, with even faster access for those who are most urgently needing it. The member is asking specifically about the next pos - sible wait time or gap in care, moving from withdrawal management or detox into some form of treatment.

I want to be clear, again, that it is not always bed-based treatment that is needed, wanted or deemed to be the most appropri - ate in that relationship between a patient and their team. The Access Central line. What it also helps to do is make sure that a person doesn’t have to navigate that sys - tem on their own, or as often is the case, a family member helping them to navigate it on their behalf. For example, if a person calls Access Central, they have that access immediately to clinicians and to specialists.

If they have, through that process, a pre-booked treatment date that re - quires detox first, Access Central actually works to line up the withdrawal management date with the scheduled treatment intake. That is one way to reduce or eliminate a gap that a person might experience. But again, not every person who enters withdrawal management has an intention, or goes in with a plan, to need a treatment bed.

We don’t want that to be a barrier to accessing care, which, again, is why we provide other access into outpatient-based services, helping to prescribe OAT in that case for those individuals and working with people to really identify what their recovery goals are and make a plan. That plan may include accessing bed-based treatment services if it’s needed or if it’s their choice. Now, if there is a wait for treatment beds, the team does everything it can to make sure that a client continues to be supported. That might be accessing a stabilization or a transition bed.

It might be connecting them with out - patient treatment care or services like OAT that I talked about and having teams who regularly follow up with the client. [3:10 p.m.] I want to acknowledge that there’s still a lot of room to improve this system and to continue building it out. That is exactly what we are doing through Road to Recovery and by continuing to invest. The progress we have made over the last eight years or so has been incredible when we compare it to what there was before. The member…. We’ve already talked about this and ac - knowledged that there wasn’t enough then.

There is more now, and there is still more work to do. Claire R attée: I appreciate the minister’s response on that, and I just quickly wanted to mention this, because with Access Central…. I do understand that’s something that’s really been touted as being a solution to a lot of these problems. Part of the problem I see with that, though, is…. Just recently my team was doing some constituency work helping a constituent outside of our constituency. I know we don’t have access in the North yet to Access Cen- tral, but this is somebody that was…. I don’t know.

I don’t remember off the top of my head exactly where they lived, but they were in the Lower Mainland in general. We told them to call Access Central. They called, they got their callback 24 hours later, and they were basically told: “We don’t line up treatment. You can call back every day, and we’ll let you know when a detox bed is ready.” I do not, personally, see how that is any different from the system as it existed previously, as somebody that, again, had to navigate it. That’s always been the case.

That’s why it’s been very hard, particularly for really vul - nerable populations — those that are unhoused, for ex - ample, that are unlikely to have a cell phone. If they do, it’s likely to get stolen very frequently. This has always been an issue with our system. We put a lot of the onus on a patient or a client to do the follow-up, when they are typically not in the right headspace to be capable of that. We should be doing everything in our power to make sure we get them in to access services when they are ready and they show voluntarily that there is a desire to do so.

I have had a few experiences now with Access Central that have been less than stellar, I’ll say, compared to the way that this program has been sold. I’m happy to connect offline with the minister about that, but I do have some concerns about the way that this program has actually been rolled out. I know that it’s newer, and I know that there will be things to work through. Maybe you get somebody on the phone one day that isn’t properly trained. I don’t know.

But it was not helpful, and it actually really frustrated the family to the point where they’re feeling like they’re going to give up again because they just have not been able to access services. With that, I have one more question that I’m going to ask and then after that will request a five-minute break, because my colleague is going to take over, so that the minister can switch out her staff. But before I ask my question, I just want to say thank you. I appreciate everything that the minister and all of her staff have done over the last two days here and an - swering all of my questions.

I appreciate that we always have respectful conversations, even though we disagree on

7026 B ritish Columbia Debates T uesday, April 28, 2026 some things. I know that we agree on more than not, over - all, because I think we both want to get to a place where we can get a handle on this crisis and my role is no longer needed. The last question that I’m going to ask is around data collection. I think I touched on this last year, but I would really like to try and, one more time, circle around to this. I’m hoping this is something we’ve made some progress with. It’s around what kind of data the ministry collects on success rates of residential treatment programs that are funded by the government.

How are we tracking outcomes? How are we con - firming that what we’re doing is working? How are we figuring out which treatment centres might be doing a bet- ter job than others? What kind of aftercare and follow-up is needed? What’s more successful? How are we tracking any of those data points? [3:15 p.m.] Hon. J osie O sborne: Just going back to the member’s accounting of the family, the person, that she and her of - fice were trying to assist through Access Central, I’d be very happy to hear more details. I do want to acknowledge that Access Central…. We know that that’s not a silver bullet.

It’s not a single, stand- alone solution, but it certainly is helping people to navi - gate the system better. It won’t launch perfectly, but it is improving as time goes on. Just one anecdote of my own. In speaking with people who are involved in the system and acknowledging that, yeah, not everybody has a cell phone and has the ability to be able to call back…. You know: “Next Tuesday, call at 1 p.m.” Acknowledging that the system needs to meet people where they’re at. So being able to say to somebody who doesn’t have a cell phone, for example: “I’m the per - son you’re going to speak with. I work these days.

Try to call back next Tuesday, any time between 3 and 8 p.m. or in the afternoon….” [3:20 p.m.] The point of Access Central is to provide a single point of connection and to help somebody move through the system. That’s the intention, and I’ll be happy to hear from the member more about the particular case that she was talking about. Now, moving on to tracking the success ratio of resi - dential treatment and recovery programs. It is a challen - ging question to answer in a couple of ways.

First of all, defining what success is and understanding that a person who undertakes a bed-based program may find them - selves, some weeks, months or years later, in a position of wanting to access that treatment again, because of their addiction. We discussed yesterday this being a disease, a situation that can be relapsing for people. That’s part of the journey. It’s not a straight-line journey for individuals. Defining “success” is challenging. It is very individual and depends on a person’s own recovery goals, where they are seeking to be and what success means to them.

There’s no single source of these data. We are work - ing with five regional health authorities and a provincial health services authority and bringing those together with other ministries and services that are part of this picture, this big piece of the puzzle too — for example, the correc - tions system, which actually is probably the place where we have the most data because of the way individuals are tracked. Bringing together the corrections system, the health system, social services like housing, for example — this is all part of what’s needed to be done.

Now, that being said, since 2021, the ministry has de - veloped a performance measurement framework to mon - itor access and service utilization, the number of clients in each health authority that are served by health-authority- funded, adult, bed-based treatment and recovery services, for example. This is new. Before that, these data had never been collected, beyond just bed counts. So understanding the service use and how people are using them.

We also, on a program basis, monitor very closely some of those key investments that I’ve been speaking about today, including the CMHA beds program, the Road to Recovery program, recovery community centres and the opioid treatment access line.

These all have regular mon - itoring, reporting and evaluation. [Mable Elmore in the chair.] Again, I’ve offered the briefing to the member around the evaluation findings from Road to Recovery in Van - couver, showing that treatment retention has improved by more than 25 percent and that most participants in the monitoring and research program were still on opioid agonist treatment 30 days after discharge, which exceeds provincial retention rates that are reported for methadone and buprenorphine. [The bells were rung.] I’ll wait for the bells. A few more results we’ve already seen.

For the Road to Recovery program, their year 2 evaluation showed a 13 percent improvement in housing status, or stable hous - ing, in the 12 months following Road to Recovery admis - sion. CMHA B.C.’s grant-funded beds that are provided at no cost and that are prioritized for underserved popula - tions are also making a really big difference.

Evaluation findings are showing that clients are re - porting benefits like increased self-control and a sense of empowerment, increased optimism and hope for the future, reduction in anxiety, improved mental health and increased capacity to successfully transition out of treatment. We also monitor treatment and recovery services

Tuesday, April 28, 2026 B ritish Columbia Debates 7027 through ongoing and strengthened oversight in these re - cent years. All licensed and registered sites are required to comply with the Community Care and Assisted Living Act and the regulations there. In 2021, we introduced provincial standards for regis - tered assisted-living supportive recovery services to really strengthen that safety and the quality and the oversight of supportive recovery services. Health authorities and the CMHA have been directed to incorporate these standards into their funding agreements for all publicly funded beds.

The health authorities continue to monitor their con - tracted operators for compliance with the standards, and they report annually to the ministry on progress. [3:25 p.m.] I hope that explains a little bit more about some of the oversight, the monitoring and the evaluation that the ministry does undertake, recognizing the consistent need for improvements in the system and being able to better understand how — using the evidence and the research that we have, the advice and recommendations of experts and clinicians in this field — to provide the best services for people, again, designing and developing and imple - menting a system that not only is seamless but that is able to provide people with the support and the care that they need, no matter where they are in their journey.

I, too, really appreciate the conversation, the dialogue that I’ve had with my critic for mental health and addic - tions, the member for Skeena. I want to say thank you very much for this — and my commitment to the ongoing dia - logue that we regularly have outside of the chamber to be able to continue this work. I also just want to take this opportunity to emphasize and once again reiterate this government’s commitment to building out a system of care that works for people. There has been a phenomenal amount of work that has been done.

I have come to see and learn, in my last 18 months or so in this role as Minister of Health, to really deeply appreciate the work of those people on the front lines, in facilities, who are working with people every single day. It is difficult and hard work.

There is so much more to do, not just to serve those people who are the most vulnerable and experience the most disadvantages but also to continue to improve the services we provide for people that are maybe thought of a little bit less when we think about substance use — that is, people who are using at home alone, people who face enormous stigma and fear in wanting and needing to be able to talk about issues.

We want to continue to expand the supports and have a conversation with society at large about reducing that stigma so that we can help more people and, again, so that one day this critic doesn’t need to have the role that she has. With that, I’ll say thank you and ask for a five-minute recess, please. The Chair: Okay. We’ll take a five-minute recess. The committee recessed from 3:27 p.m. to 3:35 p.m. [Mable Elmore in the chair.] The Chair: Okay. I’ll call us back to order from the re - cess. We’ll continue our conversation on Vote 32 with the Ministry of Health.

Brennan Day: Nice to see everybody again this year. I feel we’ve all aged in dog years over the past 12 months, but it’s great to see everybody back. I’ll jump right into it. The plan today is to do some gen- eral health questions, and then we’ll get into seniors and rural health. My first question. Last year when asked for net new nurses, you provided gross registration numbers, so I guess I’ll re-ask the question again this year. How many net new nurses are practising today, compared to this time one year ago, after accounting for those who left the system? [3:40 p.m.] Hon.

Josie Osborne: I know how much the member likes numbers, so I am going to provide numbers. First of all, just to say that nursing supply-and-demand challenges remain, as the member knows and as we’ve canvassed in question period many times. That’s why we are hard at work to make British Columbia the most at - tractive place for a nurse to work, with fair pay; modern - ized facilities and workforce models; and, really, reducing the barriers for internationally trained nurses to come practise here in British Columbia. I just want to quickly point out and say thank you for the work that the B.C.

College of Nurses and Midwives has done around speeding up the credentialing of inter - national nurses. I’m going to give some overall stats and then dive into some of the details. The growth in B.C.’s nursing work - force has outpaced population growth since 2018. As of December 1, 2025, there were 76,594 nurses registered with the B.C. college. Registrations have grown by 29 per - cent since 2018. In that time as well, nursing full-time equivalents, or FTEs, have grown by 16 percent. That is net growth.

Specifically, from 2023 to 2024, which is the most re - cent year-on-year comparison that I can provide, we went from 53,059 FTEs to 56,193, which is a net growth of 5.9 percent. I want to break down the different kinds of nurses that we have in our nursing workforce. Of those 76,600- odd nurses, LPNs comprise 17,164 who are registered. Of those, 16,214 are actually practising. That’s 94.5 percent. There are 55,490 registered nurses; 50,810 who are practis - ing. That’s 91.6 percent. Registered psychiatric nurses —

7028 B ritish Columbia Debates T uesday, April 28, 2026 3,940 registered, 3,716 practising, or 94.3 percent. We also have 2,141 employed student nurses or student psychiatric nurses. We have a nursing turnover rate of about 4.6 percent here in B.C., which is actually the second lowest of all provinces, and our retention of early-career nurses is the highest in the country. Earlier I referred to outpacing population growth. Just to add a little onto that, compared with population growth of 13 percent between December 2018 and December 2025, nursing registrants grew at 29 percent.

From January 1, 2025, to December 1, 2025, the number of nurses regis - tered in B.C. grew by 2 percent, compared with a projected decline of just under 1 percent in the population, over the same period. Again, I’m just making the point that the growth in the nursing workforce is outpacing population growth. I think I’ll leave it there and see if the member has any follow-up questions on that. Brennan Day: I think if it would be possible to see the net-change data across health authorities, that would be very beneficial.

We don’t need to canvass that here, but certainly, for nurses entering the market, it would be great to encourage them to join our neighbours in the North. I know there are quite a few openings up there. The second question that I have, just on general health care numbers: how many funded health care positions in British Columbia are currently unfilled? Hon. Josie Osborne: If I could ask the member to clarify, is he speaking of all positions or any specific positions? [3:45 p.m.] Brennan Day: No, I’m referring to all positions.

How many currently funded health care positions in British Columbia, under the Ministry of Health, are currently unfilled? Hon. Josie Osborne: Thank you to the member for the question. I just want to start off describing a little bit about how these data are tracked and reported, again, with the five regional health authorities and the Provincial Health Services Authority. [3:50 p.m.] They report quarterly, to the Ministry of Health, the total regular positions and total vacant positions. That’s what’s tracked and reported by Island, Northern and Van- couver Coastal.

In Fraser, Interior, PHSA and Providence Health Care, they track this a little bit differently, as total regular em - ployees and total job postings. I would note that total job postings and total vacant positions are not exactly the same thing. But if we look at total job postings as being a bit of a proxy for vacant positions…. The ministry then takes these data and presents an estimate of provincial va - cancy rates by occupation and for the whole health care workforce that’s employed by health authorities.

I also want to be clear that vacancy rates are not neces - sarily directly indicative of workforce demand, so not all of the vacancies that are listed necessarily have to be filled in order to meet service delivery. Current vacancies speak to the present, and they don’t always speak to the future workforce dynamic. So I just think it needs to be inter - preted with that lens in mind. We always expect a certain number of vacancies because people retire, people move, people go on leave. These things happen, so there’s the constant filling of positions.

I will also note, too, that we all understand well that the workforce shortages we’re experiencing in British Colum - bia are most acutely felt in rural and remote communities. This is a place where we see vacancy rates, routinely, that are higher than in more urban areas. When we look at regional data, it’s important to note that can obscure that disparity, the situation that we’re ex- periencing in rural and remote areas, as well as there be - ing fewer employees.

So if, on a unit, two of a certain kind of position are required and one is vacant, it’s 50 percent, and the optics of that are different than the reality on the ground. I also want to note, too, that the small size of work - forces in rural and remote communities can, as I just out - lined with that example, indicate the proportionality of the impact on service delivery, and that has been a real factor in some cases. The overall vacancy rate for all health authority em - ployees is about 10 percent as of the third quarter of the last fiscal, ’25-26. This equates to an estimated 15,070 total vacancies.

This estimated vacancy rate is roughly two per - centage points lower than last year at the same time, and almost all of the occupations that are tracked across the system have seen a decrease in vacancy rates over the past year, which is good in that there has been progress, but clearly, there is more to do. Nursing positions make up almost half of these vacan - cies, about 48 percent. In Northern Health, it’s a little bit higher. Nursing vacancies actually make up about 51 per - cent of the total vacancies.

As professions, nursing and physiotherapy have the highest vacancy rates, followed by anaesthesia assistants, occupational therapists and res - piratory therapists. I can add more detail if the member wishes. I can ac - tually run through the data for the different occupations. I am sure that we will get into this as we talk through es - timates here. But again, all pointing to the need for continued work around expanding training opportunities, as we have been doing, not just with building a new medical school for physicians and expanding nursing seats but also ex -

Tuesday, April 28, 2026 B ritish Columbia Debates 7029 panding training seats for allied health professions — like speech-language pathologists; like physiotherapists being now able to be trained on Vancouver Island here, some - thing that has not happened before. As well, the need to continue the efforts around recruit - ment and retention. One of the things I hear the most often when I’m out in communities, when I’m in facili - ties talking with people about the positive impacts of the recruitment efforts that are going on here in the province, is the importance of retention.

That’s why that focus on workplace conditions is so incredibly important. Health care workers in British Columbia are some of the hardest-working people I have ever met. To see the strain that people are facing right now….

Yet they con - tinue to show up each and every single day, and they abso - lutely give their hearts into their job. [3:55 p.m.] Experiencing vacancies, experiencing workforce short - ages is very, very hard on the health care workforce and just, again, reiterates the need and really cements the com - mitment that I have as Health Minister and that we have as a government to continuing to expand the workforce through every measure that we can. Brennan Day: So 2 percent lower than last year — that’s a fantastic number.

Are any of the 15,000 positions that are being cut in government affecting that number, artificially eliminating positions which would then pad the number? I guess that’s one question. The other question is: would the minister be able to provide the breakdown regionally, in some sort of usable format for us, going forward? Hon. Josie Osborne: Okay. I’ll read into the record vacancy information by health authority, as the member asked. I won’t read it by occupation but just aggregate. The Northern Health Authority. This is as of Q3 of fis - cal ’25-26.

In Northern Health, there were 1,963 vacant positions for a vacancy rate of 19 percent. [4:00 p.m.] In Island Health, there were 3,196 vacant positions for a vacancy rate of 13 percent. For Vancouver Coastal Health, there were 3,605 vacant positions for a vacancy rate of 14 percent. For Fraser Health Authority, there were total job post - ings. Again, this is a proxy for a vacancy rate because the health authorities don’t report identically. For Fraser Health, there were 2,788 job postings for an estimated va - cancy rate of 8 percent.

Interior Health Authority had 1,721 job postings for an estimated vacancy rate of 8 percent. The Provincial Health Services Authority had 1,035 total job postings for an estimated vacancy rate of 4 percent. Providence Health Care had a total number of job post - ings at 320 for an estimated vacancy rate of 8 percent. Now, again, I want to reiterate that vacancy rates are not necessarily indicative of workforce demand, and not all vacancies need to be filled in order to meet service de - livery requirements.

But I also want to speak to the work that government is doing around minimum nurse-to-patient ratios and ac - tually increasing the amount of nursing staff on the front lines. As the health authorities have been hiring, of course, they post those positions or they are listed as vacant pos - itions until they are hired.

I also want to point to the work that we have done with the health authorities to eliminate duplicate or redun - dant administrative and executive positions, about 1,100 of which have occurred, at an estimated cost savings of $60 million a year for the health authorities — an oppor - tunity to take that money and provide it directly to the front lines. These are positions that are…. Sometimes they are left vacant purposefully, so, again, just taking the vacancy data into account there and understanding that as we move forward, an estimate like a 2 percent reduction in vacancy rates from one year to the next is….

When we’ve made that decision to keep those positions empty but they’re still listed for now, that is going to per - haps result even in an underestimate, understating the ac - tual reduction in vacancy rates there and the work that we are doing, again, to do everything possible to re-profile the funding from those unnecessary positions into front- line care, like meeting minimum nurse-to-patient ratios. Brennan Day: I guess the transition is perfect into the next section, and that’s ER closure hours in B.C. Last year you cited approximately 8,000 hours of ER closures.

Un - fortunately, when I checked the transcripts, you didn’t de- fine the period. Through FOI request, we determined that in 2024, there were 10,300 hours of unplanned ER closures in the province of B.C., and in 2025 through to April 17, there were 2,690 hours of closures. To the minister: could you please confirm the data, for calendar 2025 as well as 2026 year-to-date, for unplanned ER closures? [4:05 p.m. - 4:10 p.m.] Hon. Josie Osborne: Thank you to the member for the question.

Just before I go dive into the numbers, I do want to ac - knowledge how challenging it is to have emergency de - partment diversions, unplanned obviously, and what an impact this makes on people and on communities. I also recognize that, despite the progress that is being made, and I will speak to that, there are certain communities

7030 B ritish Columbia Debates T uesday, April 28, 2026 and certain sites that have experienced more disruptions than in other places. It is absolutely a government priority to provide sus - tained, reliable, predictable access to emergency care. I recognize, too, that emergency departments are very sym - bolic of the health care system and people’s faith and trust and confidence in the system.

This is just another reason why we need to keep doub - ling down on the work we’re doing to fill gaps and address workforce challenges as well as look at new models of ser - vice delivery that can provide that access to essential life- saving services in a way that accommodates the changing nature of the delivery of medicine as well as accommodat - ing what technology can provide us — at the end of the day, keeping emergency departments open for people.

We do have the highest number of physicians per cap - ita in Canada, here in British Columbia, and we are still experiencing some very severe systemic pressures in the system, like other provinces. I do want to speak about other provinces too, because British Columbia certainly is not alone in this issue. From January 2019 to April 2024, there were 38 percent of our emergency departments here in British Columbia that experienced a closure — at least one. But that number is 70 percent in Manitoba, it is 66 percent in Nova Scotia, and it is 57 percent in Saskatchewan.

That just points to the fact that this is something that we are experiencing in communities, particularly rural communities, across Canada. Now, the member asked specifically for our accounting of the number of hours that emergency departments have been closed. In 2024, that is 8,645. In 2025, it is 7,262. [4:15 p.m.] I will point out that in 2025, 87 percent of possible emergency department diversions or temporary clos - ures were actually averted. That’s 4,090 events that were resolved. In 2026 year-to-date — up to the end of March, March 3 1 — 1,257 hours of emergency room closure.

That’s a 28 percent reduction over the same period of last year, so from the first of January to the end of March 2026, compared to the same period the year before. That’s what I’m talking about, a 28 percent reduction. Clearly, a reduc - tion from 2024 to 2025. It’s progress. It’s tracking in the right direction. That’s exactly what we want to see. I acknowledge, at the same time, that there are particu - lar sites that haven’t experienced that progress and, in fact, are feeling even like there have been setbacks. In 100 M ile, Fort St.

James — these are communities that come to mind as some of our smaller rural communities that ex - perience frequent closures. That’s been very, very tough on those communities. That’s why the health authorities con- tinue to do everything they can to attract locums to fill the vacancies and to work with pools of physicians. It’s why Northern Health, as a health authority, for ex - ample, has an emergency department stabilization task force, essentially, within the health authority, looking at ways to continue to close those gaps.

It’s why Interior Health undertook the pilot program called LINK-ED, in which four Interior Health commun - ities are now linked, with virtual care options being deliv - ered at nighttime by a physician, staffed primarily in Na - kusp, who is able to provide those services. It is why we continue to explore other options and other service delivery models — to work with those com - munities, but really, to work with all communities as we move forward and do everything we can to stabilize emer - gency rooms, particularly in those remote and rural com - munities that are experiencing the worst of it.

Brennan Day: I’m very curious how we’re counting ER closures. I think, just for all the British Columbians out there that I know are glued to their TV sets watch - ing this, could you please confirm that when an ER is not scheduled to be open overnight or on weekends, that does not count as an unplanned ER closure? Those are planned closures, and those are not reflected in the data presented today. Hon. Josie Osborne: Yes, I can confirm those are un - planned closures. Brennan Day: How many ERs in British Columbia, currently, are not open 24-7-365? [4:20 p.m.] Hon.

Josie Osborne: There are currently six sites in British Columbia where emergency departments are not open 24-7-365. Four of them, I’ll start with: Saanich Pen - insula, Port Hardy, Mount St. Joseph, and UBC. The other two are Tumbler Ridge and Mission. Now, Mission is a temporary closure, as people know. That announcement was made around nighttime closure at Mission Memorial Hospital for the emergency depart - ment.

Tumbler Ridge has had nighttime and weekend closures for the past months since last fall, but work is underway and ongoing between Northern Health and the district of Tumbler Ridge and the community there to re- establish 24-7, as it is in Mission, which is experiencing particular issues on its own. I think it bears noting.

Again, I talked in my last an - swer a little bit about the nature of delivery of medicine and emergency services; the incorporation of technol - ogy into emergency care; and what we are also seeing around the increasing and strengthened collaboration on a regional basis between hospital care, primary care, ambulance services and specialized emergency programs, which together are beginning to work in a more coordin -

Tuesday, April 28, 2026 B ritish Columbia Debates 7031 ated and cohesive way to ensure that emergency care is sustainable, appropriate and delivered in a timely manner. I make that distinction because what we traditionally have called an emergency department is not experienced in the same way in every site. I want to use Saanich Pen - insula Hospital as an example.

A person experiencing a heart attack, an urgent life-or-death matter, who calls 911, as anybody should do in the event of an emergency in any location in British Columbia, will be taken to the closest major hospital that is able to handle that — for example, Victoria General Hospital. [4:25 p.m.] Again, this is about the coordination of regional ser - vices and working together with paramedics and the ambulance system in a way that ensures people get the most timely and the most appropriate care.

I mention this because the conversations that are hap - pening in communities and what people are experiencing in places like Princeton or Nakusp or Clearwater or Lil - looet, where virtual care is being used at night in order to allow local physicians to be able to sleep unless they need to be called in — for example, for care that is needed to be delivered in person — is again part of that changing na - ture of emergency care. The goal always is to provide the best, the most timely care and to do everything that we can to ensure that Brit - ish Columbians can access that.

As we address the work - force challenges that we’re seeing, it asks us to be more creative, to be more innovative and to be more open to looking at service delivery models that might not be the way that it was 40 years ago but is going to deliver the care that British Columbians need. Brennan Day: It does seem like scheduling the clos - ures is a way to avoid the inflated hours that we were see - ing over the last several years in the ER closures, and it’s a bit of a bait-and-switch for British Columbians. Thank you for identifying that it’s not as widespread as we may have been led to believe.

Given those impacts, certainly, are very different…. Mission has adjacent hospitals that are within a reason - able driving distance. Certainly, in cases like Tumbler Ridge — which shows up 19 times on the closure report, we discovered through the FOI, over a period of two years — it’s extremely concerning. Those driving distances and the weather play a concern. I will move on to the next question. Last year in esti - mates, the minister confirmed that $240.6 million was spent on agency nursing. What is the total amount spent in 2025, and what is the total amount spent year to date? [4:30 p.m.] Hon.

Josie Osborne: Before I turn to agency nurs - ing, I just want to close off the discussion we were hav - ing around emergency rooms and make it very clear that there’s absolutely no bait-and-switch that’s going on here. [4:35 p.m.] We have been reporting the hours where emergency rooms have been closed, very forthright about those sites where longer-term — dare I say, even permanent — chan - ges, in some cases, have been made, where emergency departments are not open 24-7 or 365 anymore.

It’s ex - plaining a little bit about the mitigations that are put in place and how it works, particularly as the member had spoken about certain locations that are in closer proxim - ity to other places. Now, Mission. We know that it is a temporary deci - sion to have the Mission Memorial emergency depart - ment closed at night, and it is in close proximity, 15 to 20 minutes away, each, from Abbotsford General and Ridge Meadows Hospital.

Again, we’re working very closely with emergency health services to ensure that patients are transported quickly and, when 911 is called, that they are taken to the appropriate site. As well, Fraser Health is working closely with the district of Mission, working with the community to make sure that they know about and understand what’s taking place with the emergency room closure there. In sites like Tumbler Ridge….

I do want to return to the point that the member makes, which is very well taken, which is that in rural and remote sites where the next clos - est emergency department is literally hours of driving away, that’s a really serious issue. That’s why we’ve placed such priority on stabilizing emergency department staff - ing to the best of our abilities, together with the health au - thorities — innovating, incorporating technology, all the things that I’ve already talked about.

But what’s important in the case of a community like Tumbler Ridge is to be able to provide, again, the reliabil - ity, the predictability and the consistency. I certainly have heard this loudly and clearly from communities like Lil - looet, which was experiencing intermittent closures; com - munities like 100 Mile House, which still continues to ex - perience those closures.

We’re working with Interior Health to provide more advanced notice of when those diversions might take place so that people can plan more appropriately, when they are not in the case of needing to call 911 but do need to come in and use an emergency department for those services. That’s a very serious issue, and I take it very, very ser - iously, as we’ve canvassed many times before in the House here. I, too, come from a rural community and can abso - lutely imagine how destabilizing it would feel to see the emergency department in my small community of Tofino go on diversion.

Nobody wants that, and that is exactly why we continue to do this work in stabilizing and innov - ating and keeping that emergency care open for patients, for people in British Columbia. When it comes to agency nursing…. I’m really glad

7032 B ritish Columbia Debates T uesday, April 28, 2026 to canvass this topic. First of all, I want to say that our utmost priority is to provide that stability and reliability in services. That means sometimes having to use agency nursing in order to fill those shifts and those vacancies in staffing schedules to ensure that the services are provided for people in acute care settings particularly. But it is a priority to use non-agency staffing wherever possible.

It’s a priority, I know, of every community that has health care facilities in their towns and villages and cities to have residents — people who live there, who work there, who raise their families there, who spend their pay - cheques there in those communities and volunteer and do all of the things that being part of a community means…. That’s why we are focused on reducing the reliance on agency nursing, but we will use it when we have to.

We have implemented competitive wage increases, pre - miums, incentives, policy approaches to attract and retain nurses, including the work that we’re doing directly with the B.C. Nurses Union around minimum nurse-to-patient ratios, which I’ve been addressing already. I want to, as well, just compliment and thank the BCNU for working closely with us on the issue of agency nursing. It is something that we have regular discussions about — and about the work that the province is doing to decrease, together with the health authorities, our reliance on private agency nursing.

I’ll read some numbers into the record here in a mo - ment, just noting that agency utilization has increased over the past years, but the rate of increase has slowed. We are now turning the tide, and it is trending downward from the peak in 2024. [4:40 p.m.] There are two key developments so far that have helped us to reduce that reliance on agency nursing.

First is around the establishment of a standardized provincial contract with private agencies, with language that im - proves the financial transparency, that prioritizes quality care, patient safety, Indigenous cultural competency — a new provincial application process to identify and limit third-party service providers rather than using local pro - curement or direct awards, for example.

The second is around the establishment of, effect - ively, our own kind of made-in-B.C. travel agency solu - tion, GoHealth BC, a provincial travel resource pool that deploys health-authority-employed nurses, and has ex - panded to medical laboratory technologists, to rural and remote communities to be able to assist with those staff - ing gaps, communities that have in other times relied on private agency staff. Again, it’s always about the overall goal of reducing or eliminating or avoiding altogether ser - vice disruptions.

I have had the opportunity to meet nurses on the floor in different facilities who have actually come to British Columbia as agency nurses, fallen in love with the com - munities that they’re working in and then taken perma - nent positions. So there are benefits. But again, as I’m say- ing, overall, the intention here, absolutely, is to drive down that need to use private agency nursing. Now, the member asked specifically around costs and cited a number from last year, which was a preliminary figure.

So what I want to do now is turn to some specific expenditure data on agency staffing and to note — as I was just talking about medical lab technologists, for ex - ample, being part of the GoHealth pool — that there are some other occupations where agency staffing is used. I’m going to report gross numbers for agency staff - ing altogether. In fiscal 2024-2025, that number was $295.049 million. The forecast for this most recent fiscal that ended just less than a month ago is $247.386 million. Now, that is a reduction of just over 16 percent. Again, as I said, trending in the right direction.

But I will point out that there is some regional varia - tion in this as well. Some health authorities like Northern Health — again, they actually developed the GoHealth nursing pool — have really placed a focused effort on re- ducing their reliance on agency staffing. Between what was spent in 2024-25 and the forecast for 2025-26, we see a reduction of almost 33 percent, which is simply phenom - enal. Now, that’s not exactly the same across all health au - thorities. But VIHA, another health authority, is seeing an anticipated reduction of 35 percent in that reliance on agency nursing.

So again, I’ve described some of the ways that we’re working to address this, understanding the importance of doing so, of requiring agency nursing where it’s needed to, of course, always prioritize patient care and keep those services open, meet minimum nurse-to-patient ratios where those ratios are being activated and implemented and established in different units, and ensuring that Brit - ish Columbians get that care from our incredible nursing workforce that we have. Brennan Day: So GoHealth is effectively now a stand- alone travel nursing pool.

What was the spend last year on GoHealth and the attached nurses? [4:45 p.m.] Hon. Josie Osborne: The GoHealth BC agency was an action that was specifically delineated in the health hu - man resources strategy. It’s action 34. Now, at that time, in ’23-24, it was budgeted for $113.680 million over three years and $42.97 million ongoing. The fiscal year 2025-26, the preliminary, and I will emphasize preliminary, actuals for the GoHealth BC program were $42.97 million.

Brennan Day: It seems like a bit of a wash in terms of actual savings on the ground between the agency nursing when you factor in the $42.9 million from GoHealth. I’ll move along. The ministry’s April 1 press release states that more than 600,000 people have been connected

Tuesday, April 28, 2026 B ritish Columbia Debates 7033 to a primary care provider since 2023. How many of those 600,000 individuals represent net new patients attached to primary care after accounting for people who lost a pro - vider or were reassigned? [4:50 p.m.] Hon. Josie Osborne: Just returning to agency nurs - ing for a moment, I want to be clear that there’s no wash at all in those numbers when we talk about expense on GoHealth nursing and attempt to compare that to expense on private agency nursing. I want to be really clear.

GoHealth is an initiative that has been a real benefit for the health care system and for those nurses who choose to be part of it. Moving away from private agency nursing, which is more costly than a GoHealth position, a nurse on the GoHealth team is a B.C. resident, is part of a unionized workforce and is part of a team. That part of that health authority team is go - ing around travelling the province and, essentially, pinch- hitting, going in to fill the gaps to keep units open, to keep those services reliable and consistent.

I don’t know if the member thinks we will ever get away entirely from agency nursing. I don’t think that’s possible. We wouldn’t want to, in the sense of having a mobile workforce — people who sometimes are new graduates who want the experience of moving around in big centres, in smaller centres, getting different experiences — but being able, again, to fill those gaps when there just aren’t enough nurses who are working in the community to be able to fill some of the gaps, particularly as we’re experi - encing right now.

GoHealth has been, again, as I said, a real benefit to the province and a program that we’re going to continue to in- vest in and continue to work closely with the B.C. Nurses Union on being able to strengthen. Now we’ll switch to attachments of people, British Col- umbians, who are seeking a primary care provider, be it a family doctor or a nurse practitioner. And yes, since 2023, more than 600,000 people have been attached to a pri - mary care provider, which, obviously, is a huge thing for those individuals and can never be underestimated. I really appreciate the stories that I hear directly.

Every single week I hear from at least several people who tell me that they got the email, that they’ve been attached to a pri- mary care provider. I have a constituent, for example, who hadn’t been able to see a doctor in a longitudinal fash - ion, in that direct relationship, for some years and just felt an enormous sense of relief in being able to go in and sit down with their primary care provider and talk about some of the health issues that they’ve been experiencing.

We know that that attachment is incredibly important, particularly around preventative health care, being able to identify health problems before they become worse, mak - ing sure that all eligible screening, for example, or diag - nostics that are required are being undertaken and simply just the peace of mind of knowing that you have that abil - ity to be able to be attached to a clinic, to a primary care provider and get that service. [4:55 p.m.] We know that primary care is absolutely the backbone of our health care system, and it really is that entryway for those folks who need more specialized services and who encounter diseases or situations where that specialized care is needed.

Now, we are not the first government to make the com - mitment to provide that attachment to a primary care pro - vider. The government before us announced the GP for Me program, for example. Unfortunately, when they left office, they actually left the province with more people without a primary care provider than when they initially announced the program.

What we’ve done, though, as a first government to do this, is actually develop a framework and a system for measuring attachment and for registering people in Brit - ish Columbia who want to seek that attachment to a pri - mary care provider through the health connect registry. I encourage every British Columbian who is unattached and who wants to be attached to a primary care provider to register on the health connect registry. The patient attachment system that we have….We are finally able to actually measure and report progress on this effort.

There is one way of counting, which is how many patients have become attached, like the 600,000 number, the figure that we’re talking about. And then there’s also looking at the percentage of British Colum - bians that report or that we know are attached, again, through the patient attachment system. In June 2024, 74.2 percent of British Columbians were attached, and in December 2025, 77 percent were attached. That is an increase, and that’s an important increase. Note the number of new British Columbians, the growth in our population here.

Again, exceeding population growth in terms of attachment rate means that we are getting ahead. That’s why we’re going to continue to do the work to get ahead so that any and every British Columbian who wants that attachment with a family physician or a nurse practitioner has it; and in the meantime, continue to ex - pand different models of care and access to services that still help people. For example, being able to see your pharmacist and in - creasing the scope of practice for what pharmacists can do and the type of care that they provide, as with other types of health care providers.

Continuing to build out a network of urgent and primary care centres that not only will help people who can’t get an appointment with their family doctor quickly enough — who need that care within 12, 24, maybe 48 hours — but also those people who do not want or are not attached to a family practice doctor, to be able to still have their episodic needs taken into account.

7034 B ritish Columbia Debates T uesday, April 28, 2026 That’s probably enough for now, and I look forward to the member’s next question. Brennan Day: I didn’t hear a clear answer there to the question, so I’ll ask in a different way. According to a min- istry press release February 9, 2024, which has a conven - ient breakdown of attachment rates by year, in 2016, we had a population in B.C. of 4.859 million, and approxi - mately 821,000 British Columbians did not have access to a primary — were without a family doctor. In 2022, we had a population of 5.32 million, or ap - proximately 883,000.

This is from the Canadian com - munity health survey, which was reprinted in the ministry press release. The current population of British Columbia is 5.7 mil - lion people in 2026. The attachment rate in a press re - lease from April 1 states clearly that 77 percent of British Columbians are attached, but that means that 23 percent aren’t attached. That’s 1.3 million British Columbians by my math. Could you please confirm how many British Colum - bians today do not have a primary care provider in the province of B.C.? [5:00 p.m.] Hon.

Josie Osborne: Let me try to address this ques - tion in a slightly different way. The figures that the member cites are part of a previ - ous way of estimating the number of people who were unattached through a survey. As I said in my previous answer, having a patient attachment system and actually having a framework to be able to measure and then report has been an important development in

Document details

Collection	British Columbia — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	20260428pm-Hansard-n166
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	20260428pm Hansard n166
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	6e32901da38fafc27c373ad01f8a0e9e9e33eb4c

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