Manitoba Hansard — 25 April 2023 (Sitting 47B, 42nd Legislature, 5th Session)

42-5-47b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Fifth Session – Forty-Second Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXVII No. 47B - 1:30 p.m., Tuesday, April 25, 2023 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-Second Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALTOMARE, Nello Transcona NDP ASAGWARA, Uzoma Union Station NDP BRAR, Diljeet Burrows NDP BUSHIE, Ian Keewatinook NDP CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy Kildonan-River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Roblin PC EICHLER, Ralph Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne, Hon. Lac du Bonnet PC FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib. GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GORDON, Audrey, Hon. Southdale PC GUENTER, Josh Borderland PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah, Hon.

Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek, Hon. Interlake-Gimli PC JOHNSTON, Scott, Hon. Assiniboia PC KHAN, Obby, Hon. Fort Whyte PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLEIN, Kevin E., Hon. Kirkfield Park PC LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMONT, Dougald St. Boniface Lib. LAMOUREUX, Cindy Tyndall Park Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas-Kameesak NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Malaya Notre Dame NDP MARTIN, Shannon McPhillips PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice, Hon.

Seine River PC MOSES, Jamie St. Vital NDP NAYLOR, Lisa Wolseley NDP NESBITT, Greg, Hon. Riding Mountain PC PEDERSEN, Blaine Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle, Hon. Turtle Mountain PC REDHEAD, Eric Thompson NDP REYES, Jon, Hon. Waverley PC SALA, Adrien St. James NDP SANDHU, Mintu The Maples NDP SCHULER, Ron Springfield-Ritchot PC SMITH, Andrew, Hon. Lagimodière PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Vérendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC TEITSMA, James, Hon. Radisson PC WASYLIW, Mark Fort Garry NDP WHARTON, Jeff, Hon.

Red River North PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC Vacant Morden-Winkler

1833 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Tuesday, April 25, 2023 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon, everybody. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS Madam Speaker: Introduction of bills? COMMITTEE REPORTS Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs Third Report Mr. Andrew Micklefield (Chairperson): I wish to present the third report of Standing Com mittee on Legislative Affairs. Clerk (Ms. Patricia Chaychuk): Your standing Committee on Legislative Affairs– Madam Speaker: Dispense. Your Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs presents the following as its Third Report.

Meetings Your Committee met on April 24, 2023, at 12:00 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • The Advocate for Children and Youth Act Committee Membership • MLA FONTAINE • Hon. Mr. GOERTZEN • Hon. Mrs. GUILLEMARD • MLA MARCELINO • Mr. MARTIN • Mr. MICKLEFIELD Your Committee elected Mr. MICKLEFIELD as the Chairperson. Your Committee elected Mr. MARTIN as the Vice - Chairperson. Motions Your Committee agreed to the following motion: THAT the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs defer the comprehensive review of The Advocate for Children and Youth Act, as required by

section 40 of that Act, until after the Provincial General Election scheduled for October 3, 2023. Mr. Micklefield: Madam Speaker, I move, seconded by the honour able member for Kildonan- River East (Mrs. Cox), that the report of the com mittee be received. Motion agreed to. Madam Speaker: Further committee reports? Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs Fourth Report Mr. Ian Wishart (Chairperson): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the fourth report of the Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs. Clerk: Your standing Committee on Legislative– Madam Speaker: Dispense.

Your Standing Committee on Legislative Affairs presents the following as its Fourth Report. Meetings Your Committee met on April 24, 2023, at 6:00 p.m. in Room 255 of the Legislative Building. Matters under Consideration • Bill (No. 2) – The Official Time Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur le temps réglementaire • Bill (No. 8) – The Off -Road Trails Safety and Maintenance Act /

Loi sur la sécurité et l'entretien des sentiers pour véhicules à caractère non routier • Bill (No. 13) – The Wildlife Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la conservation de la faune • Bill (No. 24) – The Wildfires Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les incendies échappés Committee Membership • Mr. BRAR • Mr. HELWER • MLA LINDSEY • Hon. Mr. NESBITT • Hon. Mr. SMITH (Lagimodière) • Mr. WISHART Your Committee elected Mr. WISHART as the Chairperson. Your Committee elected Mr. HELWER as the Vice - Chairperson.

1834 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 25, 2023 Non-Committee Members Speaking on Record • Ms. NAYLOR • Hon. Mr. GERRARD Public Presentations Your Committee heard the following presentation on Bill (No. 2) – The Official Time Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur le temps réglementaire: Benjamin McGillivary, Private citizen Your Committee heard the following two presentations on Bill (No. 8) – The Off- Road Trails Safety and Maintenance Act /

Loi sur la sécurité et l'entretien des sentiers pour véhicules à caractère non routier: Jason Wiebe, Snoman (Snowmobilers of Manitoba) Inc. Gary Hora, All Terrain Vehicle Association of Manitoba Written Submissions Your Committee received the following two written submissions on Bill (No. 13) – The Wildlife Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la conservation de la faune: Chris Heald, Manitoba Wildlife Federation Paul Conchatre, Manitoba Lodges and Outfitters Association Bills Considered and Reported • Bill (No. 2) – The Official Time Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur le temps réglementaire Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 8) – The Off-Road Trails Safety and Maintenance Act /

Loi sur la sécurité et l'entretien des sentiers pour véhicules à caractère non routier Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 13) – The Wildlife Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la conservation de la faune Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. • Bill (No. 24) – The Wildfires Amendment Act / Loi modifiant la

Loi sur les incendies échappés Your Committee agreed to report this Bill without amendment. Mr. Wishart: I move, seconded by the honour able member for Brandon West (Mr. Helwer), that the report of the committee be received. Motion agreed to. Madam Speaker: Tabling of reports? MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister for Status of Women–and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes' notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 27(2). Would the honourable minister please proceed with her statement. Red Hat Society Hon.

Rochelle Squires (Minister responsible for the Status of Women): Today, I have the wonderful pleasure of hosting a women's em powerment cele - bration here at the Manitoba Legislature , with more than 50 remarkable Red Hat ladies from across our great province. The Red Hat Society began in 1998 between two friends who celebrated their 50th birthdays with the gifting of a red fedora. The red hat soon became a tradition that signified sisterhood and the celebration of aging together.

Easily identifiable with their bold and enthusi - astic shades of purple, red and pink, along with the unique red hat that signifies each woman's vibrant personality, this sisterhood has become a symbol for celebrating age in style. Manitoba's first Red Hat

chapter opened in 2000. The Hatters, as they call themselves, pride themselves on being a membership focused on fun, friendship and food, and are committed to helping reshape how mature women are valued in today's culture. These women have created a com munity where women are welcomed and accepted as they celebrate this new

chapter in their life. The Hatters also ensure they are helping one another through periods of isolation and loneliness that sometimes and unfor tunately comes with aging. They defy any attitude that does not support and celebrate the values and contributions women make at all stages of life, regardless of their age. Madam Speaker, the work of the Red Hat Society is essential to making women feel heard, and offers unconditional amounts of support and praising one another. I want to thank these women for their devotion to supporting others and inspiring women to stay true to themselves, and have fun doing it.

April 25, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1835 Madam Speaker, I ask all my colleagues to help welcome these remarkable women into our gallery today and help m e proclaim April 25th as Red Hat Society day. Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister for Status of Women. Ms. Squires: Madam Speaker, I ask for leave to have all these ladies' names entered into Hansard.

Madam Speaker: Is there leave to allow those names into Hansard? [Agreed] Vlasta Ahizic, Henna Anderson, Ana Anusic, Chrisanne Beisick, Mary Bera, Jan Bissett, Linda Black, Karen Bodnar, Marnie Bolland, Agnes Brydon, Joy Bryson, Joyce Buhr, Mary Butchard, Helen Carroll, Shirley Chaput, Pat Daly, Sylvia D e Viaming, Iyla Dumont, Herta Farkas, Lynn Greenley, Gloria Hebert, Neda Hegel, Betty Jeffrey, Mirjana Jokic, Violet Kasunic, Brenda Kinnaird, Loraine Krastel, Bev Kraynyk, Faye Lamboo, Carol Lewicki, Verna McDonald, Beverley Meiueller, Ila Murrell, Katie Paulic, Maria Paulic, Elsie Pounder, Martha Ravensdale, Bea Renalds, Ellen Rourke, Louisa Sawchuk, Josie Scaletta, Rossita Schau, Sandra Seaton, Pat Sharples, Veronica Sichewski, JoAnne Soder, Barb Sokol, Muriel Stiles, Judi Summerville-Jones, Eva Thompson, Nancy Tuek, Myrna Valley, Els VerKuiijlen, Pauline Woods, Kimberley Zorget-Shadlock Madam Speaker: And also I would indicate that I have allowed the member to wear a red hat in the Chamber.

She is authorized to do so. And I kind of think it would have be en a nice day, too, for the Speaker to change her hat into a red one, jazz it up a little bit. MLA Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): In 1998, Red Hat Society founder Sue Ellen Cooper brought her dear friend a red hat. Sue was inspired by a line in a Jenny Joseph poem that read: When I am an old lady I shall wear purple / With a red hat which doesn't go, and doesn't suit me. End quote. From this, friends began wearing and going out in public with purple clothing and red hats. The Red Hat Society was born.

Over the next several decades, the Red Hat Society grew to be a worldwide membership society with the goal of encouraging women to get the most out of life. Today, the Red Hat Society exists in over 20 countries with chapters in every province in Canada. At its peak, Manitoba was home to 165 chapters with over 4,000 members. Many women put so much time and energy into their family, career and community, but don't take enough time for ourselves to just have fun.

And so, the goal of the Red Hat Society is to give women a break from the responsibilities of everyday life for no other purpose than to just have fun with other women and to look good while doing so. Members of the Red Hat Society can be easily recognized by the bright colours they wear: red hats and purple clothing for members over 50 and pink hats and lavender clothing for members under the age of 50. This year, the Red Hat Society will celebrate their 25th anniversary. To mark that occasion, the Winnipeg

chapter is hosting It's All About The Hat gala on April 29th at the Norwood Hotel. The all-day gala will feature vendors, dinner, prizes and so much fun. On behalf of our NDP caucus, we say congratula- tions on the milestone and to many, many more years. Miigwech. Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I ask for leave to respond to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the ministerial statement? [Agreed] Ms. Lamoureux: While I recog nize that I'm not yet 50, it brings me great joy to rise in the House today to recognize the Red Hat Society.

Madam Speaker, the Red Hat Society is a fun group for women who focus on living life to the fullest. The group stands for and celebrates strong, independent women who are unapologetically themselves, embracing life and supporting each other. The society started in the late '90s and was in - spired by a beautiful poem titled Warning, by Jenny Joseph. It is about embracing the joys of being yourself because life is beautiful. The society grew to have 167 chapters at one point and currently has 13 chapters in Winnipeg and seven in rural Manitoba. And today, they celebrate 25 years here in Manitoba.

Now, why is the group called the Red Hat Society? Well, from a single gift of a red hat, it has grown into a symbol for women around the globe as they turn 50 and enter the next fun phase of their lives. Here in Manitoba, members who have reached the fabulous age of 50 years wear red hats and purple clothing. Women under 50 are pink hat divas and wear pink hats and lavender clothes. We can see this on the beautiful and strong women who are up in our galleries right now.

1836 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 25, 2023 Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Red Hat Society in Manitoba for being an inspiration to so many of us and for your outlook on life. * (13:40) I w ill end by reading a fun motto the Red Hat Society in Manitoba lives by: Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, champagne in hand, strawberries in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming, woohoo, what a ride. Thank you, Madam Speaker. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Helgi Jones Mr.

Rick Wowchuk (Swan River): I rise today to recognize and honour the late Helgi Jones, who many affectionately referred to as the Premier of Hecla Island. Born in 1916, at an early age of 13, Helgi joined his father in the family fishing operations on Lake Winnipeg. Helgi married Frances Hirst, and they made their home at Hecla Island. Over the years, Helgi accumulated a very impressive resume of work- ing for his community he so loved.

In the 1950s, Helgi was instrumental in securing grant money to build a road across the island, and when finances ran out, he organized volunteers to complete the bush clearing by hand. Helgi demonstrated his leadership over and over, and when he set out on a mission, it was accom - plished. Like when Hecla Island needed hydro, he made a presentation and Hecla got hydro. In the 1960s, Helgi became chair of the area development board, lobbying for a causeway to Hecla and to name Hecla Island as a provincial park. By the early 1970s, both missions were accomplished.

Later that year, Helgi attended marine school in Thunder Bay, earning his lake captain's papers. This inspired him to design and build the Lady Frances, a fishing vessel which improved living and working conditions on Lake Winnipeg. He was honoured by fishermen for his dedication to the fishing industry, receiving a commemorative medal to honour persons who made a significant contribution to their fellow citizens and the community. Madam Speaker, Helgi was instrumental in making Hecla Island the place it is today. It was only fitting, on June 23, 2017, Helgi Jones Parkway was named to honour his legacy.

Pat, Marjorie, Stuart, Allan, Murray and families, you are rightfully extremely proud of Helgi's accom - plishments. I welcome Helgi's family here today, and ask for leave to include their names and a list of his many accomplishments into Hansard to honour his legacy. Colleagues, please join me in welcoming his family to the Legislature today.

Family of Helgi and Frances Jones: Patricia Bjornson, Marjorie Henry, Allan and Betty Jones, Stuart and Mugs Jones, Murray and Margaret Jones, children; Brad and Kristine Jones, Alanna Jones and John Robinson, Lisa Dudko, grandchildren; Armaan Jones, Leah Jones, Nicholas Helgi Jones, Patrick Helgi Bjornson, great-grandchildren. Madam Speaker: The member did not need leave in that particular instance. Early Childhood Educator Week MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): This week is Early Childhood Educator Week.

I am pleased to have the opportunity today to thank all of Manitoba's dedicated and hard-working early childhood educators and expend–extend a special thank you to the Union Station early childhood educators in our community. ECEs cannot be overlooked –cannot continue to be overlooked, rather, by this PC government and need to be given the respect they deserve through funding, wages, protections and actions. Child-care centres in Union Station are doing amazing work to make sure that children are well socialized and well taken care of.

They make extraordinary efforts to keep kids safe and enjoy our neighbourhood's parks and amenities, while being a source of important information and relationships for so many families. Child care should be affordable for all parents regardless of income. However, affordable child care means nothing if there aren't enough staff or centres for all kids. ECEs invest in obtaining their education and training.

Their skills, dedication and essential service has not been respected by this gov ernment, which is why we're struggling to ensure that afford- able child care is available to all Manitobans across our province. Most ECEs are earning inadequate wages, which makes it harder to attract new workers to the field and

April 25, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1837 leads to many leaving the field in order to find better paying work. Honouring ECEs is a nice gesture, but nice gestures from this PC government are not a sub- stitute for actual actions taken to retain and recruit ECEs to the field. This government can and should do much more to support the early childhood educator section–sector in our province by taking bold steps to ensure that child care is fully accessib le, truly affordable for all Manitobans and that ECEs are adequately supported, resourced and compensated.

Thank you to all the incred ible Union Station early childhood educators. Our NDP caucus stands with you and is committed to real action being tak en to support you. Thank you. Yeho Estioco Hon. Sarah Guillemard (Minister of Advanced Education and Training): Madam Speaker, it is not uncommon for members of this Assembly to invite talented young artists to be recognized in the Chamber. Some have even gone on to become quite famous. Today is my turn to highlight an amazing young man from Fort Richmond whose musical talents are already reaching international audiences.

Yeho Estioco is an impressive pop and R & B singer who writes his own lyrics and music. Starting at the age of four, Yeho showed ad- vanced skills in his vocal abilities, and with the encouragement from his musical family, he has taken the talent to very new heights. This young musician also plays a number of instruments, including the acoustic guitar, bass guitar, drums, French horn, trumpet, piano and ukulele. Madam Speaker, I was excited to join Yeho at the launch of his very first album called iHope on February the 18th of this year.

The room was full of adoring fans who swooned as soon as Yeho began to croon. His voice has a rich and smooth tone that exudes a calm comfort and upbeat ambiance. Members of the House who are interested can listen on the–to the iHope album on SoundCloud, or, even better, you can join him at his next concert this Saturday, April 29th, at Raffy's Cafe on Ellice Avenue. Madam Speaker, this humble yet confident young man has his values strongly rooted in family.

The con- nection was very evident at his album launch where both his mother and his father share d their pride and joy in a son who has continuously shown his gratitude for their sacrifices. It is truly a gift to be able to highlight and promote the hard work of a young Manitoba youth who will be representing our province in such a positive light be - cause of the person he is. Yeho Estioco is joined by his family in the gallery today: his father , Danny, his mother , Joanalyn Estioco, and other family and friends.

I ask my colleagues to please join me in saluting this talented young musician as he grows an exciting career in music. Re Uz It MLA Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): Madam Speaker, today I rise to recognize Re Uz It, an environmentally friendly initiative that is meeting the needs of many in Flin Flon. Re Uz It is a used -items store that accepts valuable donations from community members for resale. Proceeds are then distributed to local community groups in need. Re Uz It was originally founded by avid com - munity volunteer Kathy McCormick to help fund Habitat for Humanity in Flin Flon.

The store moved to its present location on Trout Lake Road in 2016 and was registered as a non-profit business in 2018. So far, Re Uz It has been able to donate $21,000 back to the community. The store has supported several local groups, including the Flin Flon cadets, Flin Flon Aboriginal music centre–sorry, Flin Flon Aboriginal Friendship Centre, McIsaac School Lego club, Flin Flon Guidance Nursery school, Norman Community Services, SPCA, Bust the Winter Blues Festival, Flin Flon Ski Club and curling club, as well the Flin Flon Arts Council, Community Wellness Collective, library and north star quilting guild.

I'd also like to use this opportunity to acknow - ledge the citizens of Flin Flon who have supported and continue to support Re Uz It, either through purchases or by donating gently used goods. Currently, Re Uz It founder Kathy manages store by herself with occasional help from her husband Joe, who is the news reporter with CFAR radio. I appre - ciate Kathy and Joe for the immense value they continue to add to our Flin Flon community and, by extension, our province, Manitoba. Their commitment

1838 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 25, 2023 to service has made a huge different in the lives of community members and community groups. Thank you. * (13:50) Seniors' Concerns in Tyndall Park Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): I've been working closely with seniors living in Tyndall Park in creating a condensed and cohesive list of specific issues that seniors are facing and hoping this govern- ment will address immediately. Madam Speaker, these individuals have shared that they strongly feel there is a creation of a two-tier health-care system happening.

Many seniors cannot afford their prescribed medications–some are on fixed incomes, and some plans don't cover their medica - tions. There are also many barriers seniors face with respect to nutrition, dental work and eye exams. I have also heard from many constituents that the shingles shot is too expensive for seniors and we should consider covering the shingles vaccine as they do in Ontario. Further to this, it is becoming harder to access a family doc tor because Manitoba has the lowest number of family physicians in the entire country. We need over 400 more doctors to even get to the national average.

It is hard to get assistance in health care in a timely fashion and it is becoming incredibly disheart- ening, not to mention bad for personal morale, that seniors–and everyone –often have to go to health facilities, sometimes for longer periods of time, far away from their own communities and their loved ones. We are supposed to be striving for community health.

Seven Oaks hospital is the closest hospital to Tyndall Park, and as our North End population continues to grow, it stands there underutilized because the provincial government won't put in the necessary investments in public health care and properly staff the facility. When it comes to home care, seniors want this service to remain public, so there is more account - ability and standards. We also need to ensure there is sufficient nurses and health- care aides in all long - term-care facilities.

Seniors need and deserve these changes as they have been ignored for far too long and it is a matter of respect and safety. I table a list of these ideas and I ask that the minister respon sible, if he would consider meeting with some of the seniors in my const ituency about these issues. Thank you. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions, we have some guests in the gallery that I would like to draw your attention to. Seated in the public gallery, we have with us today Morgan Shipley and Stacia Franz, who are the guests of the honour able Minister of Mental Health and Community Wellness (Ms.

Morley-Lecomte). On behalf of all honourable members, we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. ORAL QUESTIONS Health-Care System Management Physician Recommendations Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): For years the PCs have ignored front-line health-care workers. Health-care aides, physicians, allied health professionals, nurses; they've tried to ask for improve- ments an d proposed solutions, and time and again they've been turned away by this Premier and by Brian Pallister before her.

Now, of course, these physicians and other allied health professionals are speaking out, and they're calling attention to the failures of the PC government. Just today, Dr. Dan Roberts wrote, and I quote: There is a clear difference between engaging private com - panies in an accountable and ap propriate fashion versus turning the system into a pork barrel. End quote. The Premier owes Manitobans a response. Why has she turned our prov incial health -care system into a situation where it's being compared to a pork barrel? Hon.

Heather Stefanson (Premier): Contrary to the information the–that the Leader of the Opposition just put on the floor of the Chamber, Madam Speaker, I'll put some facts on the record. The fact is, Madam Speaker, we are investing record amounts of dollars in our health -care system in the province of Manitoba: almost $8 billion, $668 million more than last year. That's a 9.2 per cent increase; that's more, not less.

April 25, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1839 The Leader of the Op position continues to put false information on the record in this Chamber. We'll continue to put the facts on the record. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: For seven years, this Premier helped Brian Pallister implement his agenda of cuts, and then she shows up in an election year and tries to promise different. Manitobans see through that.

Manitobans listen to the physicians, the physicians who have quit their task-force process, the physicians at the Grace, who have been bringing forward proposals , only to be rejected by this government. Physicians, like the one I referred to, who wrote in the paper today that, I quote: What is lost here is the suffering and anxiety of patients and their families, and the current plight of a dedicated doctor. End quote. It's really some thing when physicians and other health professionals speak out like this to condemn a provincial government's failures to fix health care.

Will the Premier admit that her gov ernment has failed to listen to the front- line experts like Dr. Dan Roberts? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, Madam Speaker, we continue to listen to front-line experts, including doctors in the community–doctors like Dr. Peter MacDonald, who is the head of our Diagnos tic and Surgical Recovery Task Force; doctors like Ed Buchel, who is also a member of that task force. These are individuals who are helping us move in the right direction to help eliminate the backlog, the surgical and diagnos tic backlogs in the province of Manitoba.

And I want to thank them for the incredible work that they're doing. We'll continue to take their advice, not the advice from the Leader of the Opposition. Madam Speaker: The honour able Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: The Premier should start to listen to those on the front lines. And she should pay close attention to the words of Dr. Dan Roberts who told them that their approach was not going to work. He asked them, instead, to invest in the public system, but what did the Premier do? Well, Dr.

Roberts writes, and I quote here: As of this date, no response has been forthcoming. End quote. That's the record of the Stefanson government. That's the record when it comes to neurology. That's the record when it comes to ignoring those on the front lines of our health-care system. Will the Premier tell the House and the people of Manitoba why she ignores front -line, local experts like Dr. Dan Roberts? Mrs. Stefanson: Well, we are listening to those on the front line.

And I want to thank all of those doctors and health-care professionals who are on our Diagnos tic and Surgical Re covery Task Force, people like Dr. Peter MacDonald, Dr. Ed Buchel, Dr. Chris Christodoulou, Dr. Marco Essig, Dr. Amin Kabani. Dr. Luis Oppenheimer, Dr. David Hochman and others. We want to thank them. We are listening to them, and they are helping us to ensure that we deplete those surgical and diagnostic backlogs. We will continue to listen to those doctors. While the Leader of the Op position wants to make fun of me, I will continue to stand up for all Manitobans.

Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Allied Health Professionals Collective Bargaining Negotiations Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): You'll note who the Premier doesn't thank there: any physician or nurse or front-line health professional who disagrees with this government's cuts. On this side of the House, we know that it's the vast majority of physicians and nurses who con- demned this government's cuts to health care, and we stand with them, just like the allied health-care profes- sionals.

If you want a data point for this: 7,000 allied health-care professionals voted–99 per cent of them– voted against this gov ernment an d in favour of a potential strike action. We're talking about rural para- medics; we're talking about laboratory technologists who work to keep health facilities open across the province, unlike the PCs who only work, seemingly, to close those sorts of facilities. Why has the gov ernment refused to treat allied health-care workers with respect for the entirety of their time in office?

1840 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 25, 2023 Hon. Heather Stefanson (Premier): The Leader of the Opposition is entirely disrespectful towards Dr. Peter MacDonald, who is a leading orthopedic surgeon in the province of Manitoba. Madam Speaker, he is disrespectful towards Dr. Ed Buchel, who is the prov- incial speciality lead of surgery. He is disrespectful towards Dr. Chris Christodoulou, the prov incial specialty lead in anaesthesia. The list goes on. These are individuals who are coming forward to help at the table of solutions, as the Minister of Health (Ms.

Gordon) says, to ensure that we deplete that surgical and diagnostic backlog. That's what Manitobans expect from us and we will continue to deliver on their behalf. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. * (14:00) Mr. Kinew: While there's a table of two at the so - called table of solutions staffed by the Premier and the minister of the art of the possible, on this side of the House, we stand with the 7,000 allied health-care pro- fessionals who condemn this gov ernment's failure when it comes to health care.

The situation at the Thompson General Hospit al is very dire. There's a 75 per cent vacancy rate there for lab techs. Data shared shows that one of these lab technologists was forced to work up to 47 hours straight–47 hours straight, Madam Speaker. That's the state of health care under the PCs. Why has this Premier failed to give these allied health-care professionals a fair deal, much less basic signs of respect? Mrs. Stefanson: Madam Speaker, we continue to meet with front-line health-care professionals, including allied health-care professionals.

In fact, just this morning, I met in my office with one of their members, Madam Speaker, and I listened to some of the challenges and concerns. And one of the things that was very apparent is that there's a lot of fear mongering by the Leader of the Op position and members opposite. And that's disrespectful. We know, Madam Speaker, that collective bar - gaining continues to take place. We will not interfere in that process.

The Leader of the Opposition can fear monger all he wants, Madam Speaker , but we will continue to stand up for all of those allied health -care workers who deserve to, yes, to get a collective agreement in place, and we encourage Shared Health and the union to get together to ensure that that is done in an expeditious fashion. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Madam Speaker, this Premier appoints the board of Shared Health, and she sets Shared Health's mandate.

She continuously prioritizes the bureaucracy ahead of those folks who work on the front lines of our health-care system. In this year's election, you've got a choice: you can stand with the bloated PC health bureaucracy, or you can stand with us who are going to fix the front lines of health care right across the great province of Manitoba.

It's very disingenuous for the Premier to talk about respect when for five years she has frozen the wages of these allied health-care professionals and they have been forced to carry the cost on their credit cards and lines of credit while the PC ministers benefit at the Cabinet table from the financial implications of that wage freeze. Will the Premier finally admit today that they have frozen those wages for partisan, political purposes and have never prioritized health care in Manitoba? Mrs.

Stefanson: Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition is saying that we should intervene in the collective bargaining process in this situation. We believe that's wrong and that is disrespectful to all of those 7,000 allied health- care professionals who are working day in, day out to protect Manitobans in our health-care system. Madam Speaker , even Theresa Oswald, back when she was minister of Health in Manitoba, she said, I'm not–and I quote–I'm not going to presuppose the outcomes of negotiations that are going on between any workforce and its employer. Theresa Oswald was right.

The Leader of the Opposition is wrong. Thompson General Hospital Lab Technologist Staffing MLA Uzoma Asagwara (Union Station): The state of health care in this province is truly outrageous, and Manitobans know it's a crisis caused by PC cuts and this Health Minister's many, many failures. This morning, the Manitoba allied health care – Manitoba association of health professionals, rather,

April 25, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1841 revealed a critical shortage in laboratory staffing at Thompson General Hospital, which could threaten to shut down emergency room services altogether. Their president, and I quote, said: The lab staff are doing everything they can to keep the hospital running, but they need help and they're not getting it. We are very concerned that the few technologists who are left won't be able to hold out much longer. End quote.

My question for the Health Minister: Is it possible that her gov ernment's five -year wage freeze is the reason she can't recruit lab– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Hon. Audrey Gordon (Minister of Health): The smoke-and-mirrors NDP are attempting to cover up their plan for health care here in Manitoba, but I'm going to help Manitobans to connect the dots, Madam Speaker. In 2019, the Leader of the Opposition said that the Manitoba NDP would allow private home-care contracts to expire if elected. Madam Speaker, right here in Winnipeg, that would mean nearly 190,000 hours less of patient care.

December 28th, 2022– and I'll table it, Madam Speaker–the leader then said he would not reopen Winnipeg e mergency departments that were transi - tioned to urgent care. And just a few weeks ago– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honour able member for Union Station. [interjection] Order. MLA Asagwara: The staffing situation, Madam Speaker, in Thompson, has steadily worsened in recent years under this PC government. Since 2020, six medical laboratory technologists have left positions in Thompson.

Currently, there are only three technologists out of 12 positions actually filled–that's a 75 per cent vacancy rate. Workload assessment data obtained by the Manitoba allie d health -care pro fessionals show that laboratory technologists in Thompson have been forced to work up to 47 hours straight, including both full shifts and on-call, to keep necessary services open to the public. Will this Health Minister finally accept respon- sibility for this staffing shortage in Thompson and her failure to pay competitive salaries, and ensure there's adequate staff for the people who need them? Ms.

Gordon: Madam Speaker, the lab techs–not just in Thompson, but across this province–will see more vacancies, according to the Leader of the Opposition, who said in debate recently with the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) during Estimates, nobody can explain the benefits of Shared Health, and vowed to cut their funding. I've asked several times in the Chamber, will it be the Children's Hospital? Will it be Manitoba's addic - tions services? The Leader of the Op position has not replied, Madam Speaker.

Manitobans want to know: Who from the 18,000 Shared Health employees, lab techs and others, would the Leader of the Op position cut here in Manitoba? Madam Speaker: The–[interjection] Order. The honourable member for Union Station, on a final supplementary. MLA Asagwara: Manitobans' No. 1 priority is fixing the problems in health care, but this PC Premier and Health Minister think announcements in an election year after seven years of cuts is going to save their jobs.

Access to services performed by specialized allied health professionals is necessary for rapid diagnosis and treatments of patients in car accidents, heart attacks, pregnancy complications and many other medical procedures and emergencies. We know the risk, as we've already seen emergency rooms in Robli n and Eriksdale that had to close due to lack of available lab services. When will this PC government do the right thing for recruitment and retention, and provide allied health professionals, including lab technologists, with the stability and certainty of a wage settlement? Ms.

Gordon: Madam Speaker, I know the member for Union Station don't want Manitobans to know about the great work that we are doing here on this side of the House and in government.

But I'm going to continue to make Manitobans aware: 80 new physician training seats, including 10 international graduate seats; $123 million in incentives to attract and retain nurses; extending the coverage of insulin pumps and con- tinuous glucose monitors to Manitobans; adding TRIKAFTA to the provincial drug formulary; nearly $8 billion total for health -care funding, Madam Speaker; $812 million for the clinical pre ventative services plan.

1842 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 25, 2023 We are responding to the needs of Manitobans. We are not doing it through smoke and mirrors, like the members opposite. Government Advertising Campaigns Government Spending Priorities Mr. Adrien Sala (St. James): It's clear the PC gov - ernment is working for their own self interests, not the interests of Manitobans. Nothing makes this more clear than th e over $1 million they've budgeted for self-promoting advertising this year. * (14:10) At the same time, the PCs continue to cut the services Manitobans rely on. My question for the Premier (Mrs.

Stefanson) is simple: Why is she spending taxpayer dollar s on advertising that should be used to support services Manitobans rely on, like health care and education? Hon. Cliff Cullen (Minister of Finance): It's too bad the member opposite couldn't have done his homework before he brought that question to the Chamber. Madam Speaker, I went back and looked at what the NDP spent in the two previous elections back in 2016, 2011. And I found out –we put those dollars in today's dollars –the NDP has –will have spent 68 per cent more than what we have budgeted this year. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St.

James, on a supplementary question. Mr. Sala: Sadly, Manitobans cannot trust math done by this PC Finance Minister. Rather than sending much-needed dollars to our health- care or edu cation systems–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Sala: –the PCs have instead budgeted over $1 million for advertising, over $210,000 has already been spent promoting the PCs' failed budget and $127,000 for their vote -buying cheques. That's hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars the PCs are spending in a des perate attempt to reverse opinion polls.

Can the Premier explain, why is she wasting taxpayer dollars for her own political gain? Mr. Cullen: Let's go back to the previous election. This was just after the NDP raised the previous prov- incial sales tax by up to 8 per cent, Mr. –Madam Deputy Speaker. What did the NDP spend at that point in time; $16.5 million to tell Manitobans, it's okay, we took more money out of your pockets. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. James, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Sala: As the PCs spend over $1 million on shameless, self -promoting advertising, Manitobans continue to wait for a government that will adequately invest in health care and education and more. Instead, what they get from this PC gov ernment is cuts and more cuts. Manitobans deserve a gov ern- ment that acts in their best interest, and one, I might add, that they can actually trust. Can the Premier explain to Manitobans why is her PC government more focused on re-election than they are on improving the services Manitobans rely on? Mr. Cullen: Well, Madam Speaker, let's talk about trust.

Back in 2016, of course, at the time, the premier said, listen, we are not going to raise the prov incial sales tax. What did they do? They raised the prov - incial sales tax. Then, Madam Speaker, they went out and spent $16 million telling Manitobans it was a good thing. Madam Speaker, what we did this year, we're giving carbon tax rebates to Manitobans; $225 for individuals, $375 for couples; $200 million in total. Madam Speaker, we are going to spend $1 million to make sure that Manitobans get every nickel they deserve. Senior Staffer to Former Premier Inquiry into Salary Repayment MLA Nahanni Fontaine (St.

Joh ns): In 2019, Michael Kowalson, a former senior staffer to Brian Pallister, broke the law when he took a paid job on a federal Conservative campaign while he was working in the premier's office. That's double-dipping, Madam Speaker. Brian Pallister was fo rced to apologize and told Manitobans that he directed his buddy to pay back those monies to taxpayers. End of story, so we thought. It turns out that the salary was never paid back, Madam Speaker. Gov ernment documents, which I table, show no record of it. So, can the Premier (Mrs.

Stefanson) say once and for all, did he pay back the money that's owed to taxpayers?

April 25, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1843 Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I accept nothing of the premise of which the member is putting forward because that individual has put forward lots of false allegations in this House before that have been proven to be false by the conflict of interest officer ; the very conflict of interest officer who this op position disparages by killing legislation that that conflict of interest officer asked for. Well, they don't trust the conflict of interest officer, Madam Speaker.

I will take the word over the conflict of interest officer over any member of the opposition. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. MLA Fontaine: Double-dipping is against the law, Madam Speaker. Kowalson made $140,000 of salary while he was working in the premier's office, while doing Conservative election work. That is wrong, Madam Speaker. Brian Pallister told the public that he directed his buddy to pay that new–that money back. The Deputy Premier said it happened, yet official documents, which I table again, can't confirm it.

Will the Premier sa y how much of that money was paid back to taxpayers? Mr. Goertzen: The member seems to be walking back her allegation in her second question. But what can't be walked back is the fact that the opposition killed legislation asked for by the conflict of interest officer. That legislation would have required MLAs to disclose publicly, on the Internet, gifts that they received from individuals over a certain value. Well, remember when the NDP took free Jets tickets from Crown corporations and then didn't disclose it.

Maybe that is why the NDP killed legis lation by the conflict of interest officer that would require gifts to be disclosed. How many more free gifts are they planning to take if the public would bring them back into government, which we won't allow to happen. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a final supplementary. MLA Fontaine: So, what Michael Kowalson did was wrong, and it's against the law. The Deputy Premier agreed when he said, and I quote, it was a mistake, and it shouldn't have happened. End quote.

So, why can't the Premier say how much of his salary was paid back to Manitoba taxpayers? Govern- ment documents show that from August 2019 to July 2020 there are no records of him paying back that money to the minister of Finance. So, will the Premier tell the House how much money did Kowalason [phonetic] pay back? Mr. Goertzen: In October of late last year, that very member who asked this question made allegations about the member for Fort Whyte (Mr. Khan) regarding conflict of interest allegations. She went into the hallway and repeated those allegations.

They were investigated by the conflict of interest officer and found to be bogus, found to be scurrilous, found to be wrong, Madam Speaker. I would table, with the permission of the member for Fort Whyte, the ruling by the conflict of interest officer, who says that those allegations that were made by the member opposite were wrong. This is her op portunity to apologize and stop making false allegations, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The–[interjection] Order. Order. Professional Conduct Requirements for Teachers Consultations with Teachers on Bill 35 Mr.

Nello Altomare (Transcona): Yesterday, Manitobans had the oppor tunity to come to the Manitoba Legislature and share their views on the PC government's legislative proposals, including Bill 35. We hear d from dozens of presenters, many of who were teachers, regarding their concerns with this PC Education Minister and his plans to subject them to a new disciplinary process.

Everyone should have had a voice on how our kids are educated, and we should absolutely be listen- ing to the expertise of teachers in classroom. * (14:20) Having listened to the many voices of teachers last night, will the minister now agree that his govern- ment needs to work with teachers rather than im - posing new processes on–without consultation? Hon. Wayne Ewasko (Minister of Education and Early Childhood Learning): Actually, I was waiting for the member from Transcona to stand up and apolo- gize for misleading Manitobans about the signage that he goes around walking the s treets of Winnipeg

1844 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 25, 2023 wearing, Madam Speaker. But , obviously, we're talking about something else today. So, Madam Speaker, I am going to take this opportunity to thank all those people that came last night to com mittee to demon strate their demo cratic right right here in Manitoba: to come to com mittee and be able to share their views and comments to Bill 35, which is a bill that is set up to make sure that we're keeping kids safe. We're talking about teachers' misconduct and also competency.

So, I look forward to hearing many more presenters later tonight and possibly into tomorrow evening. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Transcona, on a supplementary question. Mr. Altomare: These teachers were indeed passion- ate last night in advocating fo r their profession, and they decried the lack of support from this government for the work that they've been doing every single day. Last night, from among many presenters, we heard several sharing their dismay, Madam Speaker, at the state of edu cation in our province under this PC government.

They decried the lack of support, the funding cuts, that they have been subjected to due to this PC government's ongoing and persistent underfunding over these past seven years. So, my question for the minister is this: Having listened to teachers last night, will he hear their concerns and make amendments to this Bill 35? Mr. Ewasko: Once again, main focus of Bill 35, Madam Speaker, is student safety; protecting students in this great province of ours.

Again, I actually thought the member from Transcona was going to turn a leaf and maybe take some self-serving comments away from his Leader of the Opposition, who seems to stand in this House on a day-to-day basis, pretending to be some kind of actor. He's no Adam Beach, Madam Speaker. This–Madam Speaker, last night we had many presenters come forward from various edu cation stakeholders and once again, it's showing that myself and the department are listening to education partners right here– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. The honourable member for Transcona, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Altomare: We know this PC gov ernment has consistently starved our edu cation system of needed funding these past seven years. That is without a doubt and on the record. Teachers are on the front lines of our system , working with kids in the classroom and with families in our communities each and every day. And yet, schools across the province have been grappling wi th bud- getary constraints for years under this PC government, which has forced them to cut and trim vital programs, Madam Speaker.

Giving their failures to engage with educators, including their failed and unsuccessful bill 64, is this minister willing today to amend this bill to address the concerns that he heard last night, and will continue to hear tonight– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired. Mr. Ewasko: Once again, it was a little difficult hear- ing the member's question, because his own le ader was heckling him during his own question, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, so when the member opposite, from Transcona–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Ewasko: –talks about funding in this great province of ours, I would like to state that, here in the city of Winnipeg, Louis Riel School Division for this upcoming school division is receiving $8- million increase. Pembina Trails School Division is receiving a $10-million increase. River East Transcona School Division–which the member used to teach for–$11-million increase. St. James-Assiniboia, $3.7-million increase. Seven Oaks, $3.3 million–well, that's before, of course, they forgo $4 million. Winnipeg School Division, $12.5-million increase. Madam Speaker– Madam Speaker: The member's time has expired.

Backlog at Vital Statistics Wait-List Reduction Methods Mr. Dougald Lamont (St. Boniface): There's a chronic issue in Manitoba where people are being denied health care and other basic services because the government isn't able to process birth certificates or health cards on time. The government has claimed that the wait-list was 99 per cent solved, with only 43 people in the back - log, but this document, obtained through freedom of information that I table d, shows that the de partment just redefined what a late list–wait -list was and put

April 25, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1845 1,949 birth, death and marriage certificates in a new category: waiting for info. Can the Premier (Mrs. Stefanson) explain the massive discrepancy between what her gov ernment was saying and what it is doing? Hon.

James Teitsma (Minister of Consumer Protection and Government Services): Let me begin by saying how grateful I am for the hard work of our civil service, and that includes the folks over at Vital Statistics, and the work that they are doing there to catch up on the backlog of birth, marriage and death certificates that we had coming out of the pandemic. We have, as indicated by the Premier yesterday, added a significant number of staff there, including a number of staff in the birth registration unit, which is one of the areas of most sig nificant concern.

I'm already seeing on weekly reporting that the pace of birth certificate registration has accelerated and I'm holding them accountable to clear the backlog entirely. Thank you. Madam Speaker: The honour able member for St. Boniface, on a supplementary question. Mr. Lamont: I was at the Public Accounts committee when these claims were repeated because Vital Statistics has had–been a problem that was so bad the Auditor General did a report on it.

We never got an explanation of how the de part- ment went off the rails because there was clearly a time in Manitoba when Vital Statistics was function - ing and they were able to get these forms out on time, but it all broke down. Not only were nearly 2,000 people not being counted as part of a backlog, if they didn't get their application corrected in 30 days, the file was closed and the application was just thrown out. So, how much of the backlog was reduced by this government just throwing out applications? Mr.

Teitsma: I find the line of questioning that is being taken by the member opposite to be unhelpful, I think, to the overall discussion. We do ensure and we do our best to improve the process, as we've engaged with also our digital technical services team to find ways to improve the processes. We've directed more and more individuals to use an online form so that we have less errors occurring due to handwriting. But what the member opposite is trying to bring forward in this House is not helpful. Madam Speaker: The honour able member for Tyndall Park, on a final supplementary.

Health-Care Concerns for Seniors in Tyndall Park Request for Meeting with Minister Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Tyndall Park): Earlier today I tabled a list of ideas that come directly from seniors in Tyndall Park. Now that the minister has had an op portunity to review the ideas, will he agree to meet with a few of my constituents over the next month? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): We ap preciate the fact that this particular member often brings forward ideas and questions from her constituents. Sometimes there are students who come here to the gallery and watch her pose those questions.

In this case there are obviously questions from seniors, which she's posed to the Minister of Seniors, who's a great advocate on behalf of seniors, and I'm sure that the Minister of Seniors will respond directly to the member on the questions that she has tabled. Candace House Funding Announcement Mr. Josh Guenter (Borderland): Over the last five years, Candace House has been an integral support for families and survivors of violent crime. When people are at their most vulner able, the staff and volunteers stand with them every step of the way.

Our government supports Candace House and the amazing people that provide these wraparound ser - vices, and I understand that the Minister of Justice recently made an announcement of additional supports. Can he explain to this House exactly how this will further help Manitobans who are impacted by violent crime? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Justice and Attorney General): I'd like to thank my friend from Borderland for that question and congratulate him on the new member of the family.

Many Manitobans will remember the tragic story of Candace Derksen and the heroic efforts of Wilma and Cliff Derksen in looking to start up a place where victims' families, could go to outsi de the courtroom for support. That resulted in 2018 of the opening of Candace House, close to the courthouse where individuals were

1846 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 25, 2023 going through a trial process where there was a murder involved could go and get support. Last week, we provided an additional $200,000 to Candace House so it can be expanded so the great work can continue to be done and victims can be supported. Provincial Park Fees Government Intention MLA Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): The government's approach to Manitoba parks does n't make any sense.

We should be encouraging more Manitobans to get out and use our parks; instead, this gov ernment is making them unaffordable for everyday Manitobans. * (14:30) We received a FIPPA, which I'll table, which makes clear or at least more clear what the plan for the parks is by this PC government. They want to raise fees. Can the minister tell us how much he's planning to raise park fees? Hon. Greg Nesbitt (Minister of Natural Resources and Northern Development): The member across the aisle is just wrong. Our park system is a treasure here in Manitoba. We recently went through a parks reservation system overhaul.

Great comments on the reservation system; many more sites booked at Manitoba; no increases planned. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a supplementary question. MLA Lindsey: The PCs did make their plan quite clear in the FIPPA docu ments that we've tabled. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. MLA Lindsey: They've contracted out and privatized services. Now they're planning on hiking park fees. They've considered hiking fees for yurts by $38 a night; camp cabins, $44; seasonal rentals, a whopping $1,047. That's just plain wrong.

Will the minister be upfront and tell us just how much he plans to hike park fees going forward? Mr. Nesbitt: Well, the member across the floor is totally wrong–total fabrication. That doesn't exist. What does exist is that the NDP's policies failed provincial parks. You know, we know provincial parks are a valued part of Manitoba, and we intend to keep them in the public system, here, in Manitoba. Parks aren't for sale, as the members always like to talk about. We will continue to improve parks.

Budget 2023 earmarks $220 million over the next 10 years for parks, and I urge the members on the other side to please stay tuned for a great announcement in May on how we're going to spend that money on parks all across this great province of Manitoba. Madam Speaker: The time for oral questions has expired. Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: And we do have some guests in the gallery that I would like to introduce to you. We have seated in the public gallery from Neelin High School, 30 grade 9 students under the direction of Kerri Malazdrewicz.

And this group is located in the constituency of the honour able member for Brandon East (Mr. Isleifson). On behalf of all honour able members here, we welcome you to the Manitoba Legislature. PETITIONS Punjabi Bilingual Programs in Public Schools Mr. Nello Altomare (Transcona): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. To the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba, the back- ground to this petition is as follows:

(1) According to census 2021, Punjabi is the fourth most spoken language in Canada–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Altomare: –and there are 33,315 people in Manitoba whose native language is Punjabi.

(2) Thousands of Punjabi newcomers are coming to Manitoba as students and as immigrants, looking to call this province home. People of Punjabi origin con- tribute a great deal to the social and economic dev - elopment of Canada and Manitoba in fields such as education, science, health, business and politics.

(3) In coming to Manitoba, Punjabi new comers make sacrifices, including distance from their cultural roots and language. Many Punjabi parents and families want their children to retain their language and keep a continued cultural appreciation.

(4) Manitoba has many good bilingual programs in public schools for children and teens available in other languages, including French, Ukrainian, Ojibwe, Filipino, Cree, Hebrew and Spanish. Punjabi bilingual

April 25, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1847 programs for children and teens as well as Punjabi language instruction at a college and uni versity level could similarly teach and maintain Punjabi language and culture.

(5) Punjabi bilingual instruction will help cross - cultural friendships, relationships and marriages and prepare young people to be multilingual professionals. We therefore petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the prov incial government to take steps to implement Punjabi bilingual programs in public schools similar to existing bilingual programs and take steps to implement Punjabi language instruction in other levels of education in Manitoba. This petition, Madam Speaker, is signed by Prabhjot Kaur, Arshpreet Kaur, Ramanjot Kaur and many other Manitobans.

Madam Speaker: In accordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read, they are deemed to be received by the House. Louise Bridge Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Maloway: –is as follows:

(1) Over 25,000 vehicles per day cross the Louise Bridge, which has served as a vital link for vehicular traffic between northeast Winnipeg and the downtown for the last 112 years.

(2) The current structure will undoubtedly be declared unsafe in a few years, as it's deteriorated exten- sively and is now functionally obsolete; therefore, it must be subject to more frequent unplanned repairs, cannot be widened to accommodate future traffic capacity.

(3) As far back as 2008, the City of Winnipeg has studied where the new re placement bridge should be situated.

(4) After including the bridge replacement in the City's five-year capital budget forecast in 2009, the new bridge became a short-term construction priority in the City's transportation master plan of 2011.

(5) City capital and budget plans identified re - placement of the Louise Bridge on a site just east of the bridge and expropriated homes there on the south side of Nairn Avenue in anticipation of a 2015 start. In 2014, the new City administration did not make use of available federal infrastructure funds.

(7) The new Louise Bridge Com mittee began its campaign to demand a new bridge, and its surveys confirmed the residents wanted a new bridge beside the current bridge, with the old bridge kept ope n for local traffic.

(8) The NDP provincial government signalled its firm commitment to partner with the City on replacing the Louise Bridge in its 2015 Throne Speech. Unfor - tunately, provincial infrastructure initiatives such as the new Louise bridge came to a halt with the election of the Progressive Conservative government in 2016.

(9) More recently, the City tethered the Louise Bridge replacement issue to the new trans portation master plan and eastern corridor project. Its recom- mendations have now identified the location of the new Louise bridge to be placed just to the west of the current bridge, not to the east as originally proposed.

(10) The City expropriation process has begun. The $6.35-million street upgrade of Nairn Avenue from Watt Street to the 112-year-old bridge is complete.

(11) The new City administration has delayed the decision on the Louise Bridge for a minimum of one year and possibly up to 10 years, unless the Province steps in on behalf of northeast Winnipeg residents and completes this overdue link.

(12) The Premier has a duty to direct the prov - incial government to provide financial assistance to the City so it can complete this long overdue and vital link to northeast Winnipeg and Transcona. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Premier to financially assist the City of Winnipeg on building this three-lane bridge in each direction to maintain this vital link between northeast Winnipeg, Transcona and the downtown.

(2) To urge the provincial government to recom- mend that the City of Winnipeg keep the old bridge fully open to traffic while the new bridge is under construction.

(3) To urge the provincial government to consider the feasibility of keeping the old bridge open for active transportation in the future. And this petition is signed by many, many Manitobans.

1848 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 25, 2023 Foot-Care Services Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The population of those aged 55-plus has grown to approximately 2,500 in the city of Thompson. * (14:40)

(2) A large percentage of people in this age group require necessary medical foot care and treatment.

(3) A large percentage of those who are elderly and/or diabetic are living on low incomes.

(4) The northern regional health author ity pre - viously provided essential medical foot-care services to seniors and those living with diabetes until 2019, then subsequently cut the program after the last two nurses filling those positions retired.

(5) The number of seniors and those with diabetes has only continued to grow in Thompson and surrounding areas.

(6) There is no adequate medical care available in the city and region,

whereas the city of Winnipeg has 14 medical foot-care centres.

(7) The implications of inadequate or lack of podiatric care can lead to amputations.

(8) The city of Thompson also serves as a regional health-care service provider, and the need for foot care extends beyond just those served in the capital city of the province. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to provide the services of two nurses to restore esse ntial medical foot-care treatment to the city of Thompson effective April 1st, 2022. And this has been signed by many, many Manitobans. Madam Speaker: Grievances? ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) GOVERNMENT BUSINESS House Business Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Government House Leader): First, on a matter of House busi ness, pursuant to rule 34(7), I'm announcing that the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' business will be the one previously put forward by the honourable member for Dauphin (Mr. Michaleski). The title of that resolution is Calling on the Federal Government to Absorb the Cost of Increased RCMP Salaries.

Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Tuesday of private members' busi ness will be one previously put forward by the honourable member for Dauphin. The title of the resolu tion is Calling on the Federal Government to Absorb the Cost of Increased RCMP Salaries. * * * Mr. Goertzen: Could you please resolve the House into Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: It has been announced that the House will consider Estimates this afternoon. The House will now resolve into Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) ROOM 254 ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE * (14:50) Mr. Chairperson (Dennis Smook): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Com mittee of Supply will now resume con sideration of the Estimates for the Department of Environment and Climate. Questioning for this department will continue in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Mark Wasyliw (Fort Garry): Just picking up from where we left off yeste rday, Minister. We were talking about Sio Silica mine and we were discussing David Filmon, who is the son of Gary Filmon, who's obviously a prominent member of the PC party who has a financial stake in Sio Silica mine.

I'm wondering if the minister can a dvise that, given the reality that the commu nity is going to be concerned about that connection, they're going to be concerned of undue influence on the minister and the party in making a decision. I'm wondering if the minister can outline what steps he is prepared to take to give con fidence to the community that there will be no political interference at all in relation to your ultimate decision on this

April 25, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1849 matter and how the com munity can have con fidence that this isn't going to be a situation where, because of these personal relationships and party affiliations, that a fair decision, a neutral decision, will be made. Hon. Kevin E. Klein (Minister of Environment and Climate): Thank you to my colleague for the question. As all, you know, residents are aware that tax - payers that watch these proceedings, this is to talk about how we're spending your tax dollars to ensure that our environment is protected.

And we did discuss this topic, as my colleague alluded to, quite extensively yesterday, and the answer really hasn't changed. But I ap preciate the fact that the tone seems to have changed from the member opposite who agrees that there should be no political inter ference. That is something that I said continuous times yesterday; there is no political interference. This decision will be made based on facts and scientific evidence. It does not become, and will not become, a political decision.

And, in fact, I'm a little concerned, and I want to take a moment to apologize to all the staff that work in the climate and environment department because to suggest that civil servants are experts, those that are educated and working for the people of Manitoba and the government of Manitoba, could be influenced by any political angle whatsoever is somewhat insulting to our staff who have dedi cated them selves to this profession and have worked or continue to work daily and diligently to ensure the safety of all Manitobans.

This is why our government felt it was necessary, after listening to your concerns as residents, to send this to the Clean Environment Commission, an inde- pendent body that we know members opposite in the NDP ignored in 2003 when the clean environment committee said a new North End treatment plant had to be built immediately. That was in 2003, and it would have cost less than $300,000 at that time.

I'm here to ensure that we are on top of issues like this and that we don't ignore the facts, that we don't ignore the experts of the Clean Environment Commission, and that we allow the educated staff to make the decisions that they're paid to make by your tax dollars. This is not, and will not, be a political decision. Mr. Wasyliw: When you threaten the clean water supply of the com munity, you threaten that com mu- nity. And there is a lot of concern and unease in southeastern Manitoba about the safety and future of their water supply.

You now add this element, that a prominent mem- ber of the PC Party has a direct financial stake in this project, and the concern that their connection to the minister and his party will unduly influence the decision. There is obviously great concerns in the commu- nity about this project, and they want to know that it truly will be a fair, in dependent decision which will be absent of politics. It should, again, be very simple for the minister to answer this question and not avoid it.

What steps is he going to put in place so that the people of Vivian, Manitoba, can be assured that they are going to get an inde pendent decisi on free of politics from this minister? * (15:00) MLA Klein: I'm sure that my colleague across the floor wasn't suggesting that we're threatening the people of Vivian, Manitoba, and he was making, you know– trying to make a –some kind of correlation between what he was asking and the statement he was making.

But listen, it's very im portant that people under - stand and that we as elected officials understand: people are tired of misleading and –statements and insinua - tions. And I've been talking to people on the street and they're telling me that they're tired of that, that they want facts, that they want to know what's being done for them. They pay a lot of money for all of us to sit here. They want the government to be accountable for how we spend our money and how we protect their environment, and I think it's very clear that this gov- ernment takes the protection of the environment very seriously.

I can speak from my own personal experience as a city councillor where I fought alongside my friend and colleague and, you know, a strong NDP supporter, to reduce the phosphorus coming from the North End treatment plant going into Lake Winnipeg. And he and I worked together on that, which is exactly what taxpayers want from elected officials. They want to see us take these issues seriously and get work done, and I can assure the people of Vivian, Manitoba, that the fears and insinuations have no bas is, that, in fact, the Clean Environment Commission will–has done their part.

They will bring back their infor mation. The decision will be based solely on scientific evidence. There's no basis for the

1850 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 25, 2023 line of insinuations pretending to be in the form of a question. Another bit of evidence on that is, you know, some of the work that you can count on is what this government has done for orphaned and abandoned mines. Many years ago, when the NDP were the gov- ernment of the day, they ignored the abandon ed mines. They ignored what was happening in much of our province and just left them there to become safety and environmental risks.

Something in this budget that you should be learning about is that we're investing over $50 million to clean up orphaned and abandoned mines that were left, ignored and untouched by the members opposite, the previous NDP. They ignored that. And we've had to take steps to ensure the safety of Manitobans, which is very im portant to me and to this gov ernment because it's –the environment created around where mines are left is in danger.

And when they're ignored as they were, for decades, it created more and more problems for drinking water, for our recreational waters, and for our forests and for people living in the area. That's why–I'll note again, because this what this is about. Estimates are about the money we're spending. We're investing $50.7 million and we've already had success by mitigating two major orphaned and abandoned mines that were left by the previous government, that were ignored by the previous government, that no one wanted to pay attention to even though the experts were saying work had to get done. We've taken those steps.

The Ruttan man –mine, sorry–was completed. That was a big project, and that's something that's very important to all of us here in Manitoba. So, I'm very proud of the work that our staff is doing, and I'm certainly going to ensure that our staff is respected and that we do not insinuate in any way, shape or form that the experts that this government of Manitoba hires, that works for the gov ernment of Manitoba, that works for the taxpayers of Manitoba, are simply at the–that will make decisions at the whim of a politician. This is their decision to make. This is the rule.

It's the director's decision; it's not a politician's decision. And it won't be a politician's decision. We will con - tinue to allow our staff, the experts, the civil servants that you pay –we will allow them to do the job that they are the best at doing in this province. Mr. Wasyliw: The problem –trouble with what the minister just said is that he's the ultimate decision maker and is the one that's held accountable, not his staff. And it will be him announcing the decision, not the staff.

And there's a real perception h ere that this deci- sion could be influenced by political connections, and this government has a long history of rewarding their political friends at the expense of Manitobans and expense of Manitoba taxpayers. So it's certainly within the character of this government. So it's hard for Manitobans to trust this gov ern- ment, when they won't even answer simple questions that they will create some guardrails to prevent any sort of political interference for a decision as critical as the safety of people's drinking water.

But I'll as the minister this: If this silica–Sio Silica mine project goes ahead, is there a plan to protect the local com munity's aquifer and source of drinking water? * (15:10) MLA Klein: You know, on–when we look back at the work that this De partment of Environment and Climate has been doing for the Manitobans, I'm very proud of what they've accomplished. And in the past year, the Environment and Climate de partment has rescinded 15 boil water advisories that were in effect. And that's quite a sig nificant accomplishment.

They were in effect for longer than one year, including 10 long-term boil water advisories that were in effect for much, much longer. Our government, our staff took action because we consider every drop of water in this province to count. Our staff are dedi cated to the safety of Manitobans and that will not change. Our staff are experts in the field and they will be involved in all decisions that are made. In fact, I think this is evident when on November 8th, this government released Manitoba's water strategy.

This strategy aimed to meet the diverse water needs of Manitobans and provides high- level strategic direc - tion and guidance on water management. This will be for the coming decades and beyond. Because that's what's important, that we listen to the experts and we have the experts put together a plan. You may recall that when the members opposite were in power, the NDP, Lake Winnipeg, Lake Manitoba and Lake Winnipegosis fisheries were declared the worst managed. Let me repeat that: the

April 25, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1851 worst-managed in the world. That's not North America, that's not Canada, that's the world, by Seafood Watch. And Lake Winnipeg, one of our most precious, precious bodies of water, under the NDP, was declared th e most threatened freshwater lake in the world. Our management–water management strategy is long overdue, some thing that the previous gov ern- ments ignored again, that they didn't take seriously. Throughout the strategy dev elopment, hundreds, hundreds of Manitobans were engaged from the com- munity. Organizations were engaged; agencies, busi- nesses.

And we all discussed water management chal- lenges, issues, priorities and needs. That's what you want from your government. The launch of the water management strategy is only the beginning of the work to build Manitoba's water future. It's not an end; it's a beginning. Manitoba is developing its initial water action plan –which I'm very excited about –which will define specific pro - jects, programs and initiatives that will transform the strategy's framework into concrete actions that resi - dents will see, that residents can get updates on, that they can be assured of safety with.

And our action plan looks to be released here within the next month. So, I am very proud of what our gov ernment is doing, but more proud of the civil servants who work in environment, climate and strategy –or in environ - ment, climate because of the strategy. And if you dig deeper into the strategy, you'll find that we're s up- porting resilience in the face of climate change, some- thing that the Auditor General in a Winnipeg Sun

article said the NDP failed to do. That they in fact ignored it and failed miserably. We are working on reconciliation through advancing Indigenous inclusion in water manage ment. We're meeting the growing economic and community needs for water, including priority infrastructure needs. We're maintaining and enhancing competitiveness of our economy while protecting your safety. We're con - tinuing to adopt innovative solutions led by experts and scientists, and we're building on existing and facilitating new collaborations and long-lasting part- nerships between gov ernments, industry and water stakeholders.

You'd know, as most people in the city do, about the task force that we announced with my former colleague and friend, Brian Mayes, to address phos - phorus and other pollutants that come from the North End treatment plant that should've been changed years and years ago, but was ignored by members opposite when they had the power. Mr. Wasyliw: Just would caution the minister that the people of southeastern Manitoba are watching this, and they're looking for answers, and they're looking for responses. And what they've learned this afternoon is that this minister has a friend named Brian Mayes.

What they didn't learn is that this gov ernment has no plan to protect their water if some thing goes wrong. So I take it from the minister's non-responsive answer and evasion that there is no plan to pr otect the water from this development. Mr.

Len Isleifson, Acting Chairperson, in the Chair So I'll ask the minister this question: Is there a plan to manage the potential health risks of breathing in silica dust? * (15:20) MLA Klein: Once again, it's disappointing and disrespectful to the people of Vivian, Manitoba, to be fear mongered upon and to hear comments, degrading comments, about friends that I have or –and that I'm working with. I realize the members opposite did not get along when the NDP held government for such a long time.

And I remember being a part of the media when many of their Cabinet 'meners' quit –Cabinet ministers quit because they couldn't get along. And I think what's important here is what the facts are. And for the people of Vivian, Manitoba, the facts are really important.

And it's obvious that the member opposite doesn't understand the Legislature, and I would urge the member to take the time to review the legislation and review the policies that a re in place, because they are very clear –very, very clear –that every single potential risk to public health or environ- ment is considered in every environ mental review process. It's important to note that simply trying to make this a political gesture or use for political spin is insulting to the people of Manitoba as well. Mr.

Chairperson in the Chair Because I believe the people of Manitoba are smarter, and the people of Manitoba know and respect the staff who have been with the Environment and Climate Department for decades, that have done the work to acquire the knowledge and the expertise to work in this field to ensure the safety of Manitobans. And to suggest in any way, shape or form otherwise

1852 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 25, 2023 that our staff would be politically engaged or directed, is false and unnecessary. This is an im portant decision for the people of Vivian, Manitoba, and it will be treated as an im por- tant decision. It will be based –no licence–not one licence, no discussion will happen until a full review is done. And that includes

section 35 with our Indigenous leaders and com munities. We know how im portant that is, and we know that in the past, members opposite of the NDP didn't engage with Indigenous communities. And it's very important, as part of this process, that we listen to all individuals, as the Clean Environment Commission did. Hundreds of people appeared, not only opposed, but in support. Everything will be considered. All reports will be considered, not by a politician, and I'm the fi rst one that will tell you you don't want a politician making this decision.

You want the experts making the decision based on evidence, based on scientific fact. We, on this side of the House, the PC government, believe in the experts. We believe in our civil servants, and we believe that the legislation and the policies in place protect Manitobans. And we will fight to ensure that Manitoba's safety is protected. And I want to say it again, because this is critical for anyone watching this, because this is what happens, right? I've seen it in the media for years and years and years.

You get a political party that wants to try to put out some kind of a statement; they're looking for a clip. That's why I move my hands, so they can't edit the video sometimes. So every single potential risk to public health or the environment is considered in every environmental review process done by experts, educated individuals that have your safety top of mind. At process we did an environmental review 1, and our experts said it has to go to the Clean Environment Commission, so we send it to the Clean Environment Commission. And now, because of

section 35 consul tations, which are the right thing, we are going to now consult with Indigenous leaders in Indigenous communities. I can assure you of one thing: The health and safety, not only of people in Vivian, Manitoba, but all over this province, is a top priority of all of the civil servants that work in Environment and Climate and of myself. Mr.

Wasyliw: If an environmental licence is granted for the Sio Silica mine, is there any agreement for the company to remediate the mine site after it's abandoned? * (15:30) MLA Klein: I just wanted to note that I –that the member opposite seemed to have gotten angry when I said it was a good question, and I meant that: I thought it was a good question, and I don't think there's any reason to get angry or let tempers get the best of us during these meetings. This is for the benefit of all Manitobans, and especially this discussion. So, the simple answer to the question is yes.

In fact, it was because of our gov ernment that there are new rules and regulations in place. The reality is that– and I know the–you know, the members opposite are laughing because they don't find this very, you know, serious–but mining companies are required to obtain environmental–Environment Act licences that develop closure plans and provide financial securities, some - thing that never happened before under the previous NDP government. And we've put those into place, and we talked earlier during these meetings about our orphaned and abandoned mines projects.

That's cost taxpayers millions of dollars because that was ignored under the previous NDP government and the members opposite. So our gov ernment, and the De partment of Environment and Climate, has taken action –tangible action–to ensure that there are plans in place, and that there are financial securities in place in advance of any project starting. And this is for any mine. So we're not talking spe cifically about one mine; this is for any mine, and that wasn't there before. Our department holds all environmental licences and those that hold them to the highest standards possible.

It is their job to continuously hold these companies accountable. And they do their job very well. We are out there in the field on a regular basis ensuring that organi zations within the province of Manitoba that may be polluting the environment have a potential to or have an environ mental licence, that they stay in accordance with their licence. We do not allow any diversion from that. Our environment staff take this job and your safety very seriously. Unlike–I think the members opposite were laughing while I was trying to explain t his–this is a

April 25, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1853 serious, serious issue, and our de partment takes it serious. And that's why no licences will be approved until all of the evidence–it is in, and all the facts are in and they can be verified through science. And it will be decided upon by experts, and not politicians. Mr. Wasyliw: I'm glad to hear that there is some remediation plan. I'm wondering if the minister can tell us how much money has been deposited by Sio Silica for this remediation, and where is it held and how is it held. Is it in trust, is it in the gov ernment?

So, if he could give some details about that amount and the circumstances. MLA Klein: I thank the member for the question. It's a leading question for those watching at home because the member opposite knows very well that what he's asking is: Is there a predetermined outcome? And we have stated on the record several times, and we will continue to give the facts. There is no predetermined outcome. This is in the application process where it needs to be. And this is in the hands of the experts, which is where Vivian residents want it to be –in the hands of experts.

They don't want it to be used on political flyers. They don't want it to send fear among the community. They want facts, and they want experts making decisions on this. And I can assure the people of Vivian, Manitoba, the taxpayers, that we are taking the safety of their drinking water seriously. It's a No. 1 priority for the staff and the experts and the educated individuals of the climate and environment department.

I understand, during the discussions that we've had here, that part of the plan for the members opposite and the NDP to protect the environment is to simply raise the carbon tax at the first opportunity they get. But I remind residents watching at home of the track record, because that's what's really im portant here. It's the facts that are irrefutable, and facts that are irrefutable, there's a Winnipeg Sun

article that said: The NDP's climate change plan was a disaster. And I'll go on to remind residents that it went on to say: The former government's climate change plan was fraudulent from the beginning, driven almost entirely by gov ernment spin and propaganda. It had no basis in science. And that's again what we're hearing here today. Members opposite believe it's a political decision. We, on the other hand, believe it's a science decision. The

article went on to say that it contained no real planning and had no realistic mechanisms. * (15:40) So let's understand some thing, here. The track record of the members opposite is clear. It's politically driven. It's tax -driven. We're science- driven. We're basing all decisions on an environmental review, and it's a process that is led by experts and well -educated individuals who work for the government of Manitoba. They work for the residents of Vivian, Manitoba. They work for all residents of Manitoba, and their No. 1 priority is the saf ety of all residents in Manitoba.

To suggest, even for a moment otherwise, is very, very disappointing because our staff take their job seriously and they know the importance of making a decision based on evidence and on scientific fact. They will not ma ke this on a political promise, or they won't make it on potential flyer drops; they'll make it on facts. That's what they're doing by listening to the CEC com mission–or the Clean Environment Commission–and now, going into

section 35 consulta- tions, where we'll listen to Indigenous leaders and we'll listen to Indigenous com munities, some thing that the members opposite didn't do. And they actually didn't even listen to the science. They didn't even ask when it came to the Keeyask project. We will s tick to the facts. We will stick to the science. And as everyone should know, so that they don't get, you know, trapped in a spin, it is the decision of the director, who is an environmental specialist on this. It is not a political decision, and again, to suggest otherwise is unnecessary. Mr.

Wasyliw: It's certainly concerning that the minis- ter is not aware of the act or his ultimate responsibility in it, or his power in the act, that he is the ultimate decision maker for the Sio Silica mine projec t, and he's hiding behind prov incial staff who can't defend themselves by doing so. You know, Manitobans have a right to clean drinking water, and I was hoping that after the minis- ter's shameful performance yesterday, he would reflect on it and come h ere and take the whole Sio Silica mine situation seriously. He clearly hasn't. We're seeing concern from the communities.

The people of Dawson Trail and Springfield-Ritchot want answers. If they had listened to the minister yesterday and today, they would have basically been served a buffet of evasion and non- responsive answers. But through that haze of gaslighting, we were able to discern some facts, and here are the facts that the minister likes so much. The minister will not commit

1854 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 25, 2023 to meeting with concerned residents. The minister will not disclose if a decision will be made prior to the election. The minister, despite knowledge that a prominent PC Party member has a direct financial stake in this project, will not ensure that political inter- ference will have any part of this decision. The minister has no plan to protect the com mu- nity's drinking water.

The minister has no plan to pro- tect the community from adverse effects of silica dust, and the minister couldn't even confirm that there's sufficient money in trust for cleanup and remediation of this site. Now, I've asked the minister a number of times that people are scared. People are scared of losing their life savings, that if that water gets contaminated, their life, their property where all their wealth is, can get reduced to zero in value. They are scared that they will not be able to bathe their children in this water.

They are scared that they will not be able to cook their family's meal with this water. This minister has the power today . He has the power to release a statement to the com munity guaranteeing that no matter what will happen, he will ensure that that community has safe drinking water. Will he make that commitment today? MLA Klein: This gives me a really good opportunity to give some evidence to taxpayers in Manitoba on how this game is played. The member opposite trying to bully his way into having decisions and answers that he would like is not working.

The member opposite made six claims, all of which were false and misleading–insinuations, if anything, at best. However, I understand the member opposite, although trying to criticize me, is an attorney. And I know that his job is to create a shadow of doubt. So, let me give you the facts, because that's what's most important here. And I'll show you both clips. The reality is this, the process isn't done, so it's premature to 'discush' these details. I do not want to guess what the Clean Environment Commission will say. I don't want to guess at what is in the report. And you don't pay elected officials to guess.

You don't pay elected officials to play games with words, and try to create a shadow of doubt, to try and pretend like there might be something there, that kids won't be able to bathe. That's really unfortunate. But let's go to the great–the biggest fact, here, that the member opposite said that I was wrong, that I had the power to make the decision. Please note that I am reading from the legislation. The Sio Silica mine is a class 2 development, and upon receipt–this is

section 11(11)–upon receipt of a proposal for a class 2 dev elopment under subsection (1) or (6), the director shall deal with the proposal in accordance with subsections (8), (9) and (10), and shall (

a) issue a licence to th e proponent with such specific–specifications, limits, terms and con ditions or with a require ment for such modifications as the director deems necessary to ensure efficient environ- mental management; or (b)–and again, this is the false statement that I am correcting; this is from the Legislature: (

b) refuse to issue–this is the director–(

b) refuse to issue the licence and thereby prohibit the construction, alteration, operation or imple mentation of the development. That is a fact from the legislation. That is irrefutable. * (15:50) We're not playing games with your health, and we won't play games. We're not going to try to create a shadow of doubt and tell you all these scary things that are not real. That is unnecessary. Governments waste enough time playing politics. This is a decision that I can assure all Manitobans, like every decision that comes forward, will be made by experts.

It will be made by those who are educated in the field, that have experience in the field, that take your health and safety as a priority because, obvious- ly, politicians take it very lightly. It's a game, and it shouldn't be a game. And I respect all of the civil servants, the public servants, that work in the environment and climate department and all departments of government, because they are doing the job that needs to be done, the job that you pay them to do.

And thank goodness for these individuals, because if you're watching today you'll see that we just, as politicians, we're just trying to create a false narrative and put fear into everybody, including bathing. Unnecessary–and, really, the member opposite should apologize to the people of Vivian, Manitoba, and more spe cifically, to the staff of the public service–public servants, because they are doing their job. They are working for Manitobans. They are protecting Manitobans. And to suggest otherwise, well, it's just a silly game of trying to create a shadow of doubt.

April 25, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1855 Mr. Wasyliw: The issue isn't whether the civil ser - vants is doing the ir job. Everybody knows that they are. The issue is whether the minister is, and that's the open question. Again, the minister could settle the fears of this community in an instant by making a proper statement guaranteeing that southeastern Manitobans, no matter what decision is made, will have the right to clean drinking water. It is shocking, at this point, that whenever the minister is being asked to commit to that, he refuses to do so.

And it now creates further concern in that community of why is this minister refusing to commit to safe drinking water in southeastern Manitoba. Why would he do that? But yet he does. He persists. So I will change track here and I'll ask a question for the minister that perhaps he will answer: What is the current vacancy rate for the department? MLA Klein: And thank you for that brief little video clip from the member opposite, trying to, once again, mislead Manitobans whe n we have read the legis - lation on the record. But why continue to play that game with them? So, we're going to let that go.

We don't like insinuations or false allegations, and I will continue to defend the department on those. But if the member o pposite could be specific when he says what's the vacancies in a depart ment. I know that this is new, maybe to the members opposite, but a busi ness and the environment and climate de- partment has several depart ments, so maybe they could be specific on what department they're actually talking about or what they're trying to get information on, because that's how we answer questions. We need specific questions, not allegations, not insinuations, not misleading statements.

We need a question, and we can answer that question, but it can't be a generic question because we certainly don't want to give the taxpayers of Manitoba generalities in our statements because we had that for 17 years under the NDP. Generalities, we won't raise the PST; we raised the PST. We've heard from the NDP here during these hearings over the last couple of days what you can get from this is (

a) the members opposite never opened the budget book for climate, environment because they haven't asked a budget question yet. N umber 2, that they–it's obvious they just want to raise the carbon tax because they believe, like the NDP -Liberal coalition at the federal level, that how we solve the environment problems is by costing Manitobans more and more money every day. Let's continue to raise the price of gas and maybe, just maybe, that will save the environment. So I would like the member opposite to be very clear on what de partment they are looking for our vacancy rates in. Mr.

Wasyliw: I really don't believe that this minister is that obtuse. He knows exactly what the question is. He just simply doesn't want to answer it. So, can the minister provide a breakdown of what is, for the entire department, vacancy rate; what is the percentage; how many FTEs they are; and if he wishes to break it down by subgrouping, oh, that would be lovely. MLA Klein: Thank you to my colleague for the question. And again, I think we can be professional when we make our comments. We don't have to get angry or try to make rude comments.

I would hope that we could maintain a certain level of professionalism here. Had the –if–I'm not sure if the member has the budget books in front of them, but page 32, 33 and 34 very clearly outline the staff makeup of Environment and Climate. And, again, that's why these meetings are held, so that we can have a discussion about that and research what's in the budget book and hold the gov ernment accountable, which I believe is very important. So, let me provide the facts because, again, I think it's impor- tant for Manitobans to get the facts and not spin or innuendo. We have over 337 staff.

Our vacancy rate is quite low, actually, it's under 19 per cent which, when you look at the national average of corporations and other industries–or industries and governments, it's actually quite low. * (16:00) But let's talk about where those are because that's what's important. So, our executive support is down by two right now. Our adminis trative and financial services are down by 16, but that's able to be covered by a whole-of-government approach. Our legis lative policy and co-ordination is down by two. Our environ- mental compliance is down by 11. [interjection] No, it's not a: holey.

I mean, they–what's going to happen is the member opposite is going to try to scare

1856 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 25, 2023 you with that number when we have a large amount of staff there, so 11 is a very small percentage. So don't be 'suaded' by, again, some allegations. That's very small. Environmental approvals is very small, under 10 per cent. Environmental programs and remediations, very small. Office of drinking water is only down by 2. Again, these are small numbers.

When you compare them to the reality of what's happening in corporations and in industry across Canada; it's happening in gov ernments, you have gov ernments pilching from other gov ernments trying to get staff because there is a shortage of skilled labour. And we don't have that problem. I'm very proud of our numbers because it falls below the national average.

And that's something very important to keep in mind because the next line of questioning will take you down a different path, and I want to be clear that we're under 19 per cent, which is under the national average and allows us to function quite well, and allows our experts to function within their capacities. Mr. Wasyliw: If the compliance

section was fully staffed, how many positions are there that you say that 11 are vacant? MLA Klein: This question gives me an oppor tunity to give a shout-out to our officers in Brandon. During the ro yal winter fair, I had the real pleasure of spending some time with our officers that are keeping Manitobans safe. A lot of young, energetic individuals that take their job seriously. We talked about ways to improve how we get things done. We talked about some of their bigger challenges, the fun that they have, what was exciting to them, what isn't exciting.

I got to learn a lot about the work that these individuals do. And I want to give them a shout -out because not a lot of people understand that our f ield inspection officers get the job done year after year after year. And I want to thank them for that. And I want to recognize that our government took the time to intro duce a day–for environment officers day in June–to recognize the incredible work that our environment officers do on a daily basis.

And the individuals that I met in Brandon were shining examples of the great work that's done by our officers, not only in the Westman area, but all across the province. I'm also very proud of the fact that we're on track for all field inspections, that last couple of years during COVID–which we know was a major strain on governments and organizations around the globe; this impacted everybody, and to pretend like it didn't happen is just silly–but we were able to complete all field inspections. That's how great the staff at the environment are. That's how serious they take their job.

All field inspections were completed during COVID. And I want to add, why is that such an important fact? Because during COVID we had to call on our field inspectors to help with public safety, and they took on that responsi bility while maintaining the requirements of their job that they take very seriously. And that's what I got from every individual that I talked to in the field. * (16:10) Now, the question was how many–what percentage does it represent? We're down 7 per cent. That is in- credible. That's phenomenal. And why are we only down 7 per cent? Well, because we respect our employees.

We respect the work that they do. We've had employees and officers that have been with the gov ernment of Manitoba for over 20 years. Some that I met h ave been there for over 25 years. That is something that you don't find in a lot of organi- zations right now. That's the commitment, the dedi - cation of these individuals–experts that take drinking water and our environment seriously. They don't get involved in this political arena. They focus on Manitobans, which is what we want them to do. So we're proud of the fact that it's 7 per cent vacancy rate and that we're getting the job done because that's key here.

What's key here is that the job is getting done and nothing is getting missed, and we have to– we would be remiss if we didn't–we have to recognize the great work and thank all of our field inspectors and the management team. And I can tell you that it was one of those offices that I never wanted to leave, and I've toured offices for many organizations all across this country, newsrooms, from coast to coast to coast. There was laughter in there. There was seriousness. They could talk about the issues, but they could also have a little bit of fun at work, and I was happy to see that.

And I thank them for what they do on a daily basis. Mr. Wasyliw: I wonder if the minis ter can tell us what areas, if any, he's looking at as designating as protected.

April 25, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1857 MLA Klein: I think my colleague has not done the research on this. Protected spaces fall under Natural Resources. That's not the Environment and Climate. Mr. Wasyliw: Can the minister provide statistics on the number of Manitobans who took

part in Efficiency Manitoba programs last year, and was there any sort of internal goals that were set? * (16:20) MLA Klein: Excuse me –thank you, Mr. Chair. I think we should start with a little bit of history around Efficiency Manitoba. As many of my colleagues will recall, and most residents of Manitoba, it used to be called Power Smart, and it fell under Hydro–Manitoba Hydro's jurisdiction, which of course led many to believe that it wasn't transparent, that there was an issue with that. That was under our former colleagues, the NDP.

The Public Utilities Board, of course, suggested, appropriately, that Power Smart was in the wrong location and it needed to be more trans parent, which is some thing that the PC gov ernment is working towards in all areas of gov ernment, is full trans par- ency and accountability. The Manitoba–or, Efficiency Manitoba program doesn't hone in on one specific element, and to ask for a number, again, is–well, it's just–it's confusing to those that would be watching, because it's trying to lead down a path. The Efficiency Manitoba is part of a whole approach that we're taking to reduce greenhouse emissions as well.

And I'll, you know, refer to a Winnipeg Sun

article where the Auditor General, Norm Richard [phonetic], confirmed the failures of the NDP in what I –what he called, and I quote: a scathing review released. The report that was tabled in the legislative by the NDP proved to them that not only did the NDP fail with meeting any of their greenhouse targets that they promised to do, they knew they wouldn't achieve those goals almost, and I quote, almost imme diately after it released its plan. This government, the PC gov ernment, is taking action.

And Efficiency Manitoba will, as they always do, table an annual report that will provide numbers to the member opposite and to the public. Open and transparent, this is what we want. We want to be open and transparent to all taxpayers, and that report will be tabled as it always is, as I'm sure the member opposite well knows, that the annual reports are always tabled.

And in fact, some of the great things that we've managed to do to reduce greenhouse gases are, you know, at the top of my head: the coal plant that is now gone, that Manitoba Hydro had; the Selkirk natural gas facility, which was closed, ahead of schedule, I might add; our biofuels mandate, which I think is a leader in this country, that other provinces and territories and such are looking at to see how well we've done. Manitoba efficiency also offers more than one program–[interjection] Excuse you. And it's important for you to know that it's more than one program. They have programs that are for residential.

They have programs that are for com - mercial, they have programs that are for industrial, programs for agri culture. They have programs for First Nations. They have programs for income - qualified individuals. And that's the benefit of going outside and being more transparent, is that Manitoba efficiency is able to provide facts and figures to all Manitobans. And, again, as the member knows, the annual report will be tabled by the de partment. But let's just go over a couple of key issues.

Manitoba–or Efficiency Manitoba has grown to over 40 programs, 40 opportunities, and offers to help improve the energy efficiency of buildings and homes in Manitoba that will ensure that we achieve emission reductions. And that's some thing that the NDP promised to do, but a s the Auditor General at the time, Norm Richards [phonetic], confirmed, the failures were great. And they knew when they said they were going to reduce greenhouse gasses that they couldn't. They went ahead and didn't anyways.

We're being transparent and we will continue to be open and trans parent and put programs forward that will reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Mr. Wasyliw: Does the minister think his department is doing enough to combat climate change? MLA Klein: Yes. Mr. Wasyliw: On page 20 of the Estimates book, it says that funding for the 2023-2024 will again provide $1.5 million to promote green technology with made- in-Manitoba innovations. Does the minister think that that's enough, given the magnitude of climate change and the urgent action that's needed?

1858 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 25, 2023 * (16:30) MLA Klein: Yet again, another example of a mislead- ing statement and trying to create a shadow of doubt for election pamphlets–quite disappointing. The reality is, for –the question was about one project. And let me give you the facts on this that are irrefutable, and I would challenge the member oppo- site to correct me if I'm wrong, but the previous gov- ernment under the NDP, for this one project, only budgeted $300,000.

And when this gov ernment took over in 2016, i t quickly doubled the investment into this one project, and then it's increased from there. So it went from $300,000 to $600,000. Now it's $1.5 million. And it is just one of multiple projects. My colleague would like you to believe that that's all we'r e doing, is $1.5 million; that's every thing; that's our plan. And, really, what that means is that they're trying to lead you down to the path and justify their campaign, which is to increase the carbon tax on Manitobans so that you pay 5 cents more, or m aybe even greater than that, on gasoline and other products.

So that's what they're trying to lead this to. But this is one of several products and programs that we have ongoing right now, and of course we will not, and we will fight against, increasing your carbon tax as well as the PST. We just have to look at what's been done to reduce emissions. Let's look at what the NDP did–nothing. In fact, we know that they put out a statement on reducing your greenhouse gas emissions that was false. And we know from the Auditor General of the time that it was false and that the headline from a newspaper

article is, NDP's climate change plan was a disaster. That's pretty bold words in a newspaper headline, and I can tell you that as a former newspaper executive and somebody who's worked in the media for a long time. That's a bold statement to make in a headline: NDP's climate change plan was a disaster. So what the member's trying to do is bring out one program when we have multiple programs that's happening. In fact, let's talk about some of those. The Efficient Trucking Program will reduce cumula- tive greenhouse gas emissions by approxi mately 121,000 tons by 2030.

That's 121,000 tons more than the NDP ever did when they were in government. Manitoba increased the renewable fuel content by 10 per cent in gasoline and 5 per cent in diesel, reducing emissions by close to 500,000 tons annually. Let's go back. What did the NDP do to reduce greenhouse gas emissions? They put forward a plan they knew was not achievable and did nothing. The headline, again, in a newspaper, after an interview with the Auditor General of the day: NDP's climate change plan was a disaster. Our climate change saw closing of Manitoba's – Manitoba Hydro's last coal-fired generating unit.

And I'm reading from this because I want you to have the facts. And we also closed natural gas units in Selkirk ahead of schedule, and it's resulted in reducing emis - sions by over 56,000 tons. So we're almost over 700,000 tons reduced in just three projects. Member opposite wanted to talk about one. Manitoba is also imple menting soil, crops and livestock beneficial management practices along with improved waste diversion activities.

Couple that with all the programs–you heard me mention it earlier, and I don't think the member opposite will bring it up–but there's over 40 programs available with Efficiency Manitoba to help reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the province of Manitoba. Look, it is no secret that Manitoba is uniquely positioned as the leader in the green transition, that we were a leader in the green economy. Over 99.6 per cent of our energy is clean. We're one of the only people that can say that. What does the member opposite want to do? Well, they're promising to raise your carbon tax and your PST. We won't do that. Mr.

Wasyliw: Well, I'll remind the minister that this is, in fact, his carbon tax. This is the PC -Liberal carbon tax that he has the power to impose and change it tomorrow if he wishes. But he doesn't be cause he actually likes this. It's his carbon tax. It's the PC -Liberal carbon tax, which goes up every year. So, in fact, it is this minister and this gov ernment that is raising the carbon tax on Manitobans. So, you know, when we talk about facts, those are the facts. But–[interjection]–Minister, when we were –the question was whether or not $1.5 million to promote green technology in Manitoba was enough. And this

April 25, 2023 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1859 minister clearly believes that it is. And he–obviously, from his comments, he thinks that 's enough money. But to put some perspective in this, the Province announced up to $5.5 million to host the Grey Cup, yet this funding to promote green tech nology with made-in-Manitoba innovations was only $1.5 million budgeted this year. This is the b iggest threat of a gen eration to our community, and why does the minister not treat it accordingly? Why does he think $1.5 million is enough for green technology? [interjection] Mr. Chairperson: Order.

MLA Klein: For those watching at home, this is not a reality show. The member opposite, for some reason, is trying to now convince Manitobans that there's a PC -Liberal coalition in Ottawa, and I don't know how in tune with politics on a national level all of us are, but we should be and know that it's actually an NDP-led coalition with the Liberals that have put in the carbon tax. In fact, it was our gov ernment that gave a carbon tax rebate, and it is shocking to me that we would think so little of the intelligence of Manitobans to make up such false allegations.

And, once again, to bring up a false and mislead- ing statement of $1.5 million in green tech–everybody knows there's much more than that. We know that there's $66.7 million for green initiatives in the province of Manitoba. How much more is that than the NDP gov ernment had? Sixty -six point seven million dollars more, because they had nothing because their plan wasn't real. We've seen it. It's in the media. We've seen it from the Auditor General. It was a fake plan, and everything we hear is fake. The fact that there's a PC -Liberal coalition.

Trudeau–can you imagine Trudeau and Poilievre having a coalition on carbon tax? Please. Why is that even being talked about here? That is ridiculous when we're here spending hundreds of thousands of y our dollars to review the budget. The initiatives are in place. Now, I noticed that the–my colleague waited until Obby Khan left the room to bring up the fact that he doesn't like the Grey Cup, that we shouldn't be supporting it– Mr. Chairperson: Order. Order. When referring to somebody here, they must be referred to by their constituency or their title. MLA Klein: I will apologize for that.

Still learning some of the idiosyncrasies of provincial politics. But let me talk about some of the great things that are being done. First and foremost, Manitobans should know that you have 99.6 of your energy is clean. I challenge you to go to other provinces that have NDP governments and see if they can match that. They can't. Manitoba–we've intro duced some projects that include Manitoba Organic Alliance incorporated. Nutrient–it's a nutrient budgeting tool to enhance the adoption of 'legeme,' I believe, is how you pronounce that? [interjection] Legume? Is it legume? Sorry.

Thank you– fertilizers to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions in agri- culture. It was like $92,000. * (16:40) Carbon Lock Technolo gies, addressing methane emissions and nutrient loading through biosolids. Red River College, drain water heat recovery system for commercial and institutional buildings. We have the Fort Whyte Foundation for the bioswale and electric vehicle charging. We have charging stations happen- ing throughout the province. Let's not forget the electric tundra buggy.

I could go on for hours about all of the programs that we are doing to reduce greenhouse emissions, and the investments that we're making and the work that we're doing in collaboration. And that's the key here. Do you want elected officials that know how to col - laborate, and not just make stuff up and take a very authoritative approach? You want your government to collaborate with industry, because industry will lead the green economy. They are the largest emitters, and they need to find ways to reduce their emissions–and they will.

And you want a gov ernment that's collaborating with them, not that's simply going to tack more and more and more tax on them. We've heard it here. We've heard that th

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	42-5-47b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	42nd 5th hansardpdf 47b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	6ec985174d08e2833fa7d8b4f0e66bc7550f428a

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