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October 20, 2025

44th Parliament, 1st Session

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Hansard Transcripts

Votes and Proceedings

Orders and Notices

Hansard Transcript 2025-Oct-20 (PDF)

L024 - Mon 20 Oct 2025 / Lun 20 oct 2025

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO

ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L’ONTARIO

Monday 20 October 2025 Lundi 20 octobre 2025

Independent members

Opposition days

Board of Internal Economy

Member for Hastings–Lennox and Addington

Tabling of sessional papers

Members’ Statements

Childhood Cancer Awareness Month

Unemployment

Health care

Community safety

Forestry industry

Special Olympics

Climate change

Circonscription de Glengarry–Prescott–Russell / Riding of Glengarry–Prescott–Russell

Small Business Week

Introduction of Visitors

Wearing of T-shirt

Member for Waterloo

Question Period

Government accountability

Government accountability

Government accountability

Government accountability

Employment standards

Government accountability

Mining industry

Forestry industry

Government accountability

Agri-food industry

Unemployment

Government accountability

Road safety

Youth unemployment

Reports by Committees

Standing Committee on Social Policy

Standing Committee on Heritage, Infrastructure and Cultural Policy

Standing Committee on Public Accounts

Standing Committee on Public Accounts

Standing Committee on Public Accounts

Standing Committee on Public Accounts

Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs

Introduction of Government Bills

Building a More Competitive Economy Act, 2025 / Loi de 2025 visant à bâtir une économie plus concurrentielle

Respect for Taxpayers Act (Haldimand County Trustee Vacancy), 2025 / Loi de 2025 pour assurer le respect des contribuables (vacance du poste de conseiller scolaire du comté de Haldimand)

Introduction of Bills

Ludger Michel Estates Limited Act, 2025

Franco-Ontarian Bookstore Promotion and Protection Act, 2025 / Loi de 2025 pour la promotion et la protection des librairies franco-ontariennes

Petitions

Environmental protection

Post-secondary education

Road safety

Tenant protection

Youth mental health

Police in schools

Education funding

Hospital parking fees

Government accountability

Orders of the Day

Working for Workers Seven Act, 2025 / Loi de 2025 visant à œuvrer pour les travailleurs, sept

The House met at 1015.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Good morning, everyone.

Prayers.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): You may be seated.

Welcome back. I hope everyone had a lovely summer, a restful summer, lots of work done.

We’re going to have a great session, aren’t we? We’re all going to get along, aren’t we?

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Yes, we are.

Before we begin, I would like to draw your attention to the Public Service Pension Plan briefing note and newsletter that are placed on your desks today.

Independent members

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I would like to address the House regarding the participation of independent members. Since the last time we met, the number of independent members has increased from three to four. As a result, our practices must be adjusted.

Members may recall that each independent member is entitled to participate during question period and members’ statements once every eight days. Therefore, going forward, I will recognize one independent member to ask a question and one independent member to make a members’ statement every Tuesday and Wednesday. This will allow us to accommodate all four independent members into an eight-day rotation. Each independent member recognized during question period will continue to have the opportunity to ask one question and one supplementary.

I thank you for your attention to this matter.

Opposition days

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I would also like to take a few moments to address the House on the matter of opposition days. Members will be aware that when the House last met, a motion was adopted to revise the parliamentary calendar, resulting in a change to the fall meeting period this year.

Standing order 45(

a) provides for five opposition day debates in each of the spring and fall meeting periods. Pursuant to standing order 45(c)(i), members must provide notice of an opposition day motion by the Wednesday of the week before it is to be debated so that it may appear on the orders and notices paper the following sessional day. As a result of the revision to the parliamentary calendar, which was adopted on Thursday, June 5, 2025, it was impossible for members to provide the required notice for an opposition day to be held this week, the first week of the meeting period.

Given that the scheduling of opposition days is prohibited during the last eight sessional days of the meeting period and any extension thereof pursuant to standing order 45(b)(vi), and that opposition days are limited to one per meeting week pursuant to standing order 45(b)(i), it will only be possible for four opposition day debates to take place before the House adjourns for the winter.

When faced with a similar circumstance in the spring meeting period, the allocation of opposition days was determined on the basis of the membership of the caucuses relative to each other. This approach was in keeping with previous Speakers’ decisions as well as standing order 45(b)(iii), so it is fair and reasonable to apply it again now. This formula provides that three opposition days will be allocated to the official opposition, and one opposition day to the third party.

I would like to thank the House for its attention.

Board of Internal Economy

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I beg to inform the House that in accordance with

section 87 of the Legislative Assembly Act, the name of the following person appointed to serve on the Board of Internal Economy has been communicated to me as Chair: Stephanie Bowman, MPP, is appointed by the caucus of the third party in the place of John Fraser, MPP. Welcome.

Member for Hastings–Lennox and Addington

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I beg to inform the House that the accommodations granted to the member for Hastings–Lennox and Addington pursuant to standing order 2, as detailed in my statement to the House on May 26, 2025, are no longer required.

Tabling of sessional papers

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I beg to inform the House that, during the adjournment, the following documents were tabled:

From the Office of the Auditor General of Ontario:

—a special report on the Canada-wide Early Learning and Child Care Program;

—a special report on the Home Construction Regulatory Authority;

—a special report on Progress to Reduce Greenhouse Gas Emissions; and

—a special report on the Skills Development Fund Training Stream;

From the Office of the Financial Accountability Officer of Ontario:

—a report entitled Ontario Economic Monitor: October 2024 to March 2025;

—the 2024-25 annual report;

—a reported entitled Expenditure Monitor 2024-25: Q4;

—a report entitled Ontario Economic Monitor: January to June 2025; and

—a report entitled Economic and Budget Outlook: Summer 2025;

From the Office of the Information and Privacy Commissioner of Ontario:

—the 2024 annual report and statistical report;

From the Office of the Integrity Commissioner of Ontario:

—the 2024-25 annual report; and

—a report concerning the Honourable Doug Ford, Premier of Ontario, the Honourable Andrea Khanjin, former Minister of the Environment, Conservation and Parks, the Honourable Todd McCarthy, Minister of the Environment, Conservation and Parks, and the Honourable Stephen Lecce, Minister of Energy and Mines;

From the Office of the Ombudsman of Ontario:

—the 2024-25 annual report.

Members’ Statements

Childhood Cancer Awareness Month

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): It is now time for members’ statements. I recognize the member for Perth–Wellington.

Mr. Matthew Rae: Thank you, Speaker. Welcome back, Speaker.

Speaker, I rise today to recognize Childhood Cancer Awareness Month, which took place last month and occurs every September in Ontario.

Across Canada, approximately 10,000 children are living with cancer today. Every single day, six more children receive this devastating diagnosis and, tragically, one in five of those children will never have the chance to grow old. I think of Maggie Jenkins, daughter of Dave and Maureen, whose life was cut short at the young age of 12 years old.

And for those who do survive, many face lifelong health challenges including heart disease, loss of bone density and even secondary cancers. Their courage reminds us that the battle does not end with remission.

Although Childhood Cancer Awareness Month has just passed, our work to raise awareness must continue. Every child’s life matters, and every family’s struggle deserves to be seen and supported.

Speaker, we wear a golden ribbon lapel pin, a symbol of remembrance and hope, as a reminder of the children that we have lost and those still fighting today. Let us all work together for a future where no child faces cancer.

Unemployment

Ms. Doly Begum: Speaker, 800,000 Ontarians are out of work. Just a few months ago, I stood here telling this government the struggles young people are facing in our province. At that time, Ontario’s youth unemployment rate was 15.5%. After just four months of this government’s inaction and failures, that has now gone up to almost 18%. The Premier’s response to this crisis was to tell young people to go and “look harder” for a job.

Instead of finding solutions, he blames Ontarians who are struggling to make ends meet. Speaker, that is not leadership. Maybe the Premier should look harder at his own government’s record: 800,000—800,000—people are currently out of work.

The Auditor General’s report on the Skills Development Fund shows how badly this government is failing workers and wasting taxpayer dollars. The government handed out $742 million to their hand-picked, low-ranked applicants, while high-ranked ones were unfairly denied. This is the same playbook as the greenbelt and Ontario Place—where insiders are getting ahead and Ontarians are falling behind.

We need to invest in workers. We need to invest in training centres, in building trades. Every single dollar—taxpayer dollar—should go to workers, not lobbyists or well-connected insiders.

Speaker, Ontarians are struggling. They deserve a government that will step up and fight for their future not one that will ignore their struggle and disrespect them or tell them to go and look harder.

Health care

M me Lucille Collard: On September 18, the new Ottawa Nurse Practitioner-Led Clinic officially opened its doors in Vanier. It is an historic milestone, and I want to express my heartfelt gratitude for this essential funding from the province, which enabled the creation of Ottawa’s very first clinic of this kind. Because it is fully funded by the province, this clinic ensures universal access to primary care with no out-of-pocket costs for patients.

The clinic brings together health and social services under one roof, and it is designed to grow. But it needs continued and expanded support if we are to realize its full potential, like attaching even more of Ottawa’s most underserved residents to primary care and eliminating the long wait-list for Health Care Connect.

Speaker, we know that nurse practitioners are key to addressing Ontario’s health human resource crisis. With more than 5,800 nurse practitioners across the province, we must better support and deploy this incredible workforce, especially in high-need neighbourhoods like my riding of Vanier.

To the province of Ontario, but to executive director Hoda Mankal for her incredible work; to the clinic’s dedicated staff, board and partners: Thank you for making this vision a reality. It has changed the world in my riding.

Community safety

MPP Paul Vickers: It is such a privilege to rise in this Legislature as we start this fall sitting. I had a great summer in Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound connecting with my constituents. I had thousands of discussions, but one topic from this summer stands out to me and that is community safety.

In recent years, crime has risen in Bruce and Grey counties. This isn’t just hearsay; our crime severity index has risen, and 63% of the offenders in the city of Owen Sound are repeat offenders. Residents have had enough.

But help is on the way. Through the Community Safety and Policing Grant, five projects to improve safety across Bruce–Grey–Owen Sound will be receiving provincial support. Whether it’s through more front-line constables to support patrols in Hanover, supporting Owen Sound’s community-oriented response unit and foot patrols or improving police technology in Grey Highlands and West Grey, I am proud to say that this government walks the talk on community safety.

I want to thank the honourable Solicitor General for recognizing this critical need in Bruce–Grey–Owen sound and thank the hard-working police officers that help keep Bruce and Grey counties safe.

Forestry industry

Mr. Guy Bourgouin: After three weeks of uncertainty, the recent announcement from both the federal and provincial government to help keep Kap Paper open is welcome news for workers and families in our region. This joint commitment shows what can be achieved when government listens to northern voices. I want to thank the ministers involved for recognizing the urgency and stepping up with this support.

But Speaker, our work is not done. The long-term future of Kap Paper and all sawmills and paper mills across northern Ontario depends on innovation, modernization and strategic planning. We must invest in new technologies, green energy and sustainable practices to ensure these industries remain competitive and viable for the next generation.

What we’re seeing in Kap Paper and, most recently, at Ear Falls signals a broader crisis: rising tariffs, idle mills and no coordinated plan to protect good forest jobs. Ontario needs a made-in-Ontario forestry strategy—one that promotes modernization, secures long-term power and co-generation agreements, and connects forestry to housing and economic growth.

We must also protect unionized jobs by working with labour to reskill and retain workers here in the north, rather than watching opportunities leave our communities.

Now is the time for government, industries and communities to build on this momentum and commit to a strong, innovative, sustainable forest sector. I will continue to stand up for Kap Paper and for a prosperous north Ontario that grows with the times while staying true to the roots.

Special Olympics

Mr. Brian Saunderson: It is great to be back in the Legislature after a very busy time in my riding of Simcoe–Grey. With countless announcements, events and stakeholder meetings, there are many highlights, but one in particular stands out because of the raw and real inspiration and dedication that was on full display that night.

Earlier this month, I had the pleasure and privilege to attend the Collingwood and Area Special Olympics annual awards dinner at the Royal Canadian Legion. It was a fantastic evening, Speaker, and the athletes were beaming with joy, pride and community spirit, not only for their own accomplishments, but for those of their teammates.

The Special Olympics has a long and proud history in Collingwood. In 1997, we partnered with the city of Toronto to host the first winter games held outside the United States. Today, the Collingwood and Area Special Olympics program is one of the biggest in the world. The athletes participate in 11 sports, ranging from basketball to softball to downhill skiing, and the athletes compete locally, provincially, nationally and internationally.

Some of our local athletes will be representing Canada at the 2025 Special Olympics World Games in Turin, Italy, this winter. I want to thank the countless coaches, parents and volunteers who supported these athletes this past season. Without you, the games simply could not take place.

I’ll conclude by sharing the Special Olympics motto: “Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt.” Speaker, the bravery, courage and comradery I saw in that room that night was truly incredible. Congratulations to all our athletes and to Special Olympians across our great province. You are an inspiration to us all.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Remember, it’s 90 seconds for our member statements.

Climate change

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the member for Toronto–Danforth.

Mr. Peter Tabuns: Thank you, Speaker. I appreciate the opportunity.

As everyone in this chamber is well aware, the Auditor General reported recently this government is not going to be meeting its climate targets—not even close—and is not going to actually be putting in place targets for further down the road.

This is extraordinarily consequential. People may be aware that, increasingly, scientists are realizing that the rate of global heating is accelerating, that we may well hit the 2-degree mark within the next decade. That has substantial consequences for everyone in this province and around the world. It will mean more wildfires. It will mean a drop in the standard of living. It will mean substantial increases in the costs for food.

All of these things are preventable, not just by this government, but by governments around the world. But this government has to play its part. Ontario has the extraordinary resources—human, physical—to make a difference around the world and it’s not making that difference. Actually, I’m wrong, it is making a difference: It’s going to make the world worse, because it’s not meeting the targets that it itself set out.

Speaker, it’s critical that this government draw back, look at the consequences of failure and take action to ensure that we meet those targets and, in fact, go further, meet the targets that would contain climate change in this world.

Circonscription de Glengarry–Prescott–Russell / Riding of Glengarry–Prescott–Russell

M. Stéphane Sarrazin: Merci, madame la Présidente. C’est un véritable plaisir d’être de retour à Queen’s Park pour le début de la session d’automne. J’espère que tous mes collègues députés ont passé un été enrichissant à rencontrer les citoyens de leur circonscription. Pour ma part, ce fut un été rempli de rencontres inspirantes et d’échanges constructifs.

Over the past few months, I had the opportunity to meet with many members of our community, passionate entrepreneurs and representatives of local organizations across Glengarry–Prescott–Russell. Whether at fairs, community events, funding announcements or individual meetings, I have been impressed by the energy, commitment and dedication of everyone who helps bring our region to life.

En tout, j’ai participé à plus de 200 activités dans le cadre de mes différents rôles, dont plus de 175 dans ma circonscription et plus de 25 dans mes fonctions au sein du gouvernement. Ces rencontres et événements m’ont permis de mieux comprendre les besoins et les priorités de notre communauté et d’apporter ces voix à Queen’s Park.

Je suis également fier de souligner que le gouvernement de l’Ontario a investi plus de 100 millions de dollars dans Glengarry–Prescott–Russell durant la dernière année pour soutenir nos municipalités, nos organismes et renforcer les services essentiels pour nos résidents. Ces investissements font une réelle différence dans la vie de nos gens de notre circonscription.

I would like to sincerely thank the residents, businesses, volunteers and all organizations of Glengarry–Prescott–Russell for their warm welcome, commitment and collaboration. It is a privilege to represent such a dynamic and engaged community: I look forward to continuing to make their voice heard at Queen’s Park throughout this session.

Small Business Week

Hon. Steve Clark: Speaker, it’s Small Business Week, and that’s a big deal in Leeds–Grenville–Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes: 99% of our businesses are small businesses. They’re the heartbeat of our local economy. They make our communities vibrant.

I want to recognize two events that are taking place this week. Tomorrow, the Downtown Prescott BIA and the town of Prescott economic development office will host a Small Business Week celebration. I met several of those local businesses this summer when I joined Minister Nina Tangri and Mayor Gauri Shankar for a tour in downtown Prescott.

On Thursday, the united counties host the annual Bridges to Better Business event, recognizing the entrepreneur of the year, the immigrant entrepreneur and the inclusive employer.

Starter Company Plus will also be celebrated. This program, which is funded by our government, continues to launch a number of new ventures, and I recently met with 17 new participants for the next round.

Congratulations to everyone who is being honoured this week, and I want to thank everyone for organizing these special events on Small Business Week. As our government builds a more resilient and self-reliant economy, we need the entrepreneurial spirit of our small-business owners now more than ever.

Please join me in thanking the risk-takers in my riding who have worked tirelessly to grow their business, build our economy and make Leeds–Grenville the best place in Ontario to live.

Introduction of Visitors

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): If I could have your attention, please. It is my great pleasure to welcome back former Speaker Ted Arnott and his wife, Lisa, to Queen’s Park today. I would also like—

Applause.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): It gets better. I’d also like to extend my heartfelt congratulations to Ted on receiving the 2025 Parliamentarian Lifetime Achievement Award in recognition of his 35 years of dedicated public service. And this is a global award, folks.

Ted’s steady leadership during his two terms as Speaker, his profound respect for this institution and his unwavering commitment to fostering unity and civility have left a lasting mark on Ontario’s Legislature.

Ted and Lisa will be joining us for lunch in the dining room downstairs following question period, and all are welcome to join us and say congratulations.

I would also like—it’s not as exciting. I would also like to welcome back to Queen’s Park the Honourable John Yakabuski, MPP for Renfrew–Nipissing–Pembroke.

In the Speaker’s gallery, we have with us today our new cohort of the Ontario Legislature Internship Programme, better known as OLIP. I’m pleased to announce that this is our 50th cohort of interns.

OLIP is a non-partisan program which allows interns to gain practical experience in the daily workings of our Legislature. The interns are meeting with members this week to determine placements, but there is still time to submit an application. I would encourage all members to participate.

Welcome to Queen’s Park. We are delighted to have you here.

Hon. Sylvia Jones: Welcome back, everyone. In particular, it’s my honour to welcome the Ontario Medical Association members and staff to Queen’s Park for their lobby day today. Welcome.

MPP Lisa Gretzky: I would like to welcome my good friend Mike Fisher, Shane Peters and John DeMarco from the Windsor-Essex region with Ontario Nature. I’d like to welcome them to the House today. I look forward to meeting with them this afternoon.

Mr. Mike Schreiner: I would like to welcome everyone back. A big shout-out to everyone from the Ontario Medical Association who are here today, with a special shout-out to Dr. Sarah Gower from Guelph.

I would also like to welcome the folks from Ontario Nature, with a special shout-out to Tony Morris, conservation policy and campaigns director.

Mr. Adil Shamji: I would like to begin by welcoming members of my constituency office who are here this morning: Hamish Gilleland, Andrés Pazos and Rukaiya Diwan.

I also want to recognize the many members and staff of the Ontario Medical Association, notably the president, Dr. Zainab Abdurrahman; past president Dr. Dominik Nowak; CEO Kimberly Moran; and I see Dr. Jobin Varughese from the Ontario College of Family Physicians.

Finally, a very warm welcome to our amazing 10 OLIP interns, who are watching us for the first day today.

Hon. Stephen Lecce: I want to welcome Dr. Nowak, a distinguished member of the Nuclear Isotope Innovation Council of Ontario, and welcome him back to Queen’s Park.

Ms. Marit Stiles: Good morning, Speaker, and welcome back to everybody. I’d like to take a moment to also extend a warm welcome to all of our friends at the Ontario Medical Association who are joining us here today at Queen’s Park, but especially CEO Kimberly Moran and president Dr. Zainab Abdurrahman. I hope you have a very successful day and looking forward to meeting with you later this afternoon.

M me Lucille Collard: I also want to welcome some members of the Ontario Medical Association, some from my riding. They’re the first out of the gate; very proud of them to be here: Dr. Aly Abdulla, Dr. Alia Ali, Dr. Lee Donohue, Dr. Jong Park and Dr. Jimin Liu. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Ms. Aislinn Clancy: I’d also like to welcome the members of the Ontario Medical Association, specifically Dr. Mohamed Alarakhia from Kitchener. Thank you for all of your good advocacy.

Hon. David Piccini: It’s a pleasure to welcome Nicole and Erika from the College of Carpenters and Allied Trades and Local 27, to the Legislature today; and a pleasure to welcome Domenic, Jennifer, David, Kristov, Andrew, Joseph, Rashika, Neeta, Monica and Yaleen with the Down Syndrome Foundation—both incredible groups here today.

Hon. Andrea Khanjin: I’d like to introduce two constituents with me today: Andrew Walasek from the Ontario snowmobile federation—welcome—and Dana Stott, who’s on her way here as well.

M me France Gélinas: There are over 160 representatives from the Ontario Medical Association here, including Dr. Abdurrahman, who grew up in Sudbury—you may know her. She is now the president of the Ontario Medical Association.

I also want to say a huge thank you to Dr. Koka and Dr. Ghazimoghadam, also from Sudbury, who are here today.

And as you noticed, I’m wearing blue. Go, Blue Jays, go!

M me Chandra Pasma: Merci, madame la Présidente. J’aimerais souhaiter la bienvenue à M me Gabrielle Lemieux ainsi qu’à M. Émile Maheu de l’Association des enseignantes et enseignants franco-ontariens. Bienvenue.

MPP George Darouze: I’m pleased to welcome Dr. Alykhan Abdulla and his colleagues from my riding of Carleton. Dr. Abdulla is a respected family physician who has been dedicated to improving health care in Ontario for over 35 years. Together with his fellow physicians, he continues to contribute to advocating for patient care and strengthening our health system. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Mr. Ted Hsu: I’d like to welcome all the members of the local OMA from Kingston and the Islands, led by Dr. Ani Garg, and a special welcome to a childhood friend who works for the OMA and is also from Kingston, Stephanie de Haan.

Hon. Sam Oosterhoff: I’d like to welcome to the Legislature today an excellent constituent, Dr. Azim Kasmani, the medical officer of health for the Niagara region. Welcome to Queen’s Park.

Ms. Peggy Sattler: I’d like to welcome the senior leadership team, faculty, staff, students from McMaster University, who are here today hosting a reception later this evening. In particular, I want to recognize the provost, Maureen Macdonald; Lili Litwin, VP of advancement; David Estok, adviser to the president; and Alex Lawson, special adviser to the president.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): This morning in the members’ gallery, we are joined by Stacie Tabb, an alto vocalist from the riding of Toronto–Danforth, who will perform O Canada and God Save the King. Please stand and join her in the singing of our national and royal anthems.

Singing of the national anthem / Chant de l’hymne national.

Singing of the royal anthem / Chant de l’hymne royal.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Thank you. You may be seated.

And like children back for the first day of school, we have to address the elephant in the room. We need one win—one more win, right? So what are we going to do?

On three, two, one: Go, Jays, go! There—out of the way.

Wearing of T-shirt

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the member for Scarborough Southwest on a point of order.

Ms. Doly Begum: Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to wear a Blue Jays T-shirt and cheer on the Jays as they take on game seven tonight.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): The member for Scarborough Southwest would like to wear a Blue Jays T-shirt. Do we have unanimous consent? Absolutely.

Member for Waterloo

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the Leader of the Opposition on a point of order.

Ms. Marit Stiles: I want to take a moment to congratulate my colleague and friend the member of Waterloo, who recently made history as the first Canadian to be elected chair of the Commonwealth Women Parliamentarians.

I want to add that the CWP represents over 3,000 women parliamentarians from across more than 180 member Parliaments. It works to support gender balance in Parliaments and promote gender equality all across the Commonwealth.

Thank you to everyone who voted for MPP Fife to take on this new and exciting role. We know you’re going to do great things during your term and make Canada proud.

Applause.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Congratulations.

Question Period

Government accountability

Ms. Marit Stiles: Good morning, Speaker, and welcome back, everyone.

All through the summer, I’ve been travelling across our beautiful province listening to people and what they have to say, and I’ve got to tell you, I’m really worried. People out there are worried too. They’re very frustrated. We’ve got 800,000 Ontarians out of work. We are in the middle of a jobs disaster. Meanwhile, hundreds of millions of dollars that were meant to be training people for new opportunities have been going into the pockets of Conservative friends and insiders.

My question to the Premier is, will it take a million Ontarians out of work for the Premier to stop the stunts and take some real action?

Hon. Doug Ford: I want to welcome everyone back to the Legislature here. It’s great to be here.

Actually, just to address the Leader of the Opposition’s question: We’re under attack. We’re under attack by President Trump, and he’s coming after us. But we just got elected—a third majority government to protect the people, and that’s exactly what we’re doing.

We’re making our province more resilient, more self-reliant. We’re on-shoring products from all over the world that weren’t made here before that are being manufactured here. Since our government has taken office, we’ve created 1,070,000 new jobs—for the last three months, 20,000 new manufacturing jobs—but that’s not good enough. We have to keep moving forward; we have to keep fighting against President Trump and we need to hit back. I said that to the Prime Minister: We need to hit back. There’s one person hitting back. It’s not the Leader of the Opposition, or the opposition; it’s our party, right here, that is hitting back against President Trump.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Supplementary?

Ms. Marit Stiles: It is true, Speaker, that people were counting on this Premier to fight for jobs, but he’s too busy playing Batman in parking lots while people are losing their jobs every single day.

Let’s go back to what the Auditor General told us just a few weeks ago. She said that the process of distributing the Skills Development Fund was—and I’m going to quote her here—“not fair, transparent or accountable.” Where have we heard that before? It’s the greenbelt scandal all over again.

Scale Hospitality, connected to—guess who?—the Premier’s long-time right-hand man, Amin Massoudi, got $6 million. The Premier’s own campaign manager, Kory Teneycke, received over $100 million for the projects.

Can the Premier tell us exactly how much public money went to friends of the government instead of supporting workers during this jobs disaster?

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the Minister of Labour.

Hon. David Piccini: Thank you, Speaker. I’m proud to be in a government where every single dollar goes to train workers. We know it’s a contract, Speaker. In the wake of the pandemic, when we needed to stand up for workers who are working in hospitality, who are working at restaurants, that party said “no.” This party said, “We’re going to invest in workers for better training, for better jobs with bigger paycheques.”

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Order.

Hon. David Piccini: When we’re facing threats from south of the border, we know that there’s only one party that’s going to stand up for those workers, Speaker. We have a choice to make—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Order.

Hon. David Piccini: We know that party doesn’t want to support first responders, police officers. They don’t want to support construction workers, because when construction workers are working on the 418, when they’re working on the Bradford Bypass—Highway 413—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Order.

Hon. David Piccini: When they’re working on public transit, they’re getting a paycheque and going to work. We’re never going to apologize for making those investments in those workers. They oppose each and every one of those investments.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the Leader of the Opposition.

Ms. Marit Stiles: Speaker, if this money was going to workers, that would be great. But you know what? The problem here is it didn’t. It is going to projects that specifically benefited the Premier’s friends and insiders over and over again. Those Vegas massages with the greenbelt lobbyists? They didn’t build a single home, did they? And this mess is not going to get a single person in this province a job, but it’s making the Premier’s buddies pretty darn rich. We are two years into an RCMP criminal investigation and this Premier’s MO has not changed at all.

To the Premier: Is this business as usual again for his government?

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the Minister of Labour.

Hon. David Piccini: You know what keeps me up at night? It’s when one in three men and women in the construction sector are retiring over the next decade. We’ve got to make sure we have a talent pipeline of youth entering the skilled trades, Speaker.

Under the previous government, supported by the NDP, we saw a historic drop in the number of youth registering for apprenticeships—a historic drop. Do you know what that meant? That meant that the men and women who are building Ontario Line, Highway 413, Bradford Bypass, were not getting that talent pipeline in. This Premier said, “We’re going to invest.” We’re going to invest in union training halls, Speaker. We’re going to invest in college partnerships to the tune of over $300 million through the Skills Development Fund. And what has that resulted in, Speaker?

A doubling of women registering for apprenticeships and a historic increase in youth between the ages of 15 and 24 registering for an apprenticeship. They’ve got a career for life, and we’re not going to apologize for that.

Government accountability

Ms. Marit Stiles: Career for life, eh? Where is that?

Speaker, my next question is to the Minister of Labour, because—let’s be very clear here—one in four youth right now in the province of Ontario do not have a job or any prospect of a job under this government. Some 800,000 Ontarians without work, and that number is growing every single day. We are seeing new layoffs weekly, and it is just getting much worse for young people.

But while the Minister of Labour talks like that over there, he seems to have other priorities on his mind, so my question to the Minister of Labour is this: How was Paris?

Hon. David Piccini: This is about sides. It’s about whether you will support workers by creating opportunities for jobs. When we’re facing tariff threats south of the border, it’s this Premier that has lowered taxes to create a competitive environment for manufacturers to come back in this province. Workers abandoned the party opposite because they know that their future depends on things like Highway 413. Their future depends on subways. Their future depends on a competitive environment to attract manufacturers so that we can create a world-class economy.

When the pandemic hit, we had a stockpile of expired PPE. That’s the record of the previous Liberal government. Under this Premier we’re making that stuff right here in Ontario, creating good jobs for Ontarians. We’re not going to apologize for that.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Supplementary?

Ms. Marit Stiles: Some 800,000 Ontarians out of work: This government is a jobs disaster. Something doesn’t smell right here. The minister admitted on live radio that he was hand-picking low-score applications to receive funding over better applications, better proposals. Next thing we know, he’s either out there sipping champagne in Paris or enjoying rinkside seats with lobbyists who have business before his ministry.

Can the minister explain how sipping champagne in front of the Champs-Élysées is helping anybody here in Ontario find a real job?

Hon. David Piccini: As I said, this is really about sides and which side you’re on when it comes to Ontario workers. Those workers know this government has their backs and is on their side.

I think that the Leader of the Opposition—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Order.

Hon. David Piccini: I think, Speaker, she should consult members of her own party. I’ve got a great letter from MPP Burch, who is asking that we fund an SDF program. We don’t need anyone to tell us to invest in first responders, to support firefighter training—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Order.

Hon. David Piccini: —on-the-job training that’s going to support our heroes, men and women in uniform who run into danger while everyone else runs from it.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Order.

Hon. David Piccini: She should speak to MPP Burch. He supports the Skills Development Fund—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I apologize to the minister. It’s day 1. Order in the House, please, or I will start warning people.

I will let the minister finish his response.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Order. The member for Hamilton West–Ancaster–Dundas will come to order.

Hon. David Piccini: Any opportunity to support our first responders—they don’t support them. They want to cut funding for cops. They want to cut funding for firefighters. That’s why those first responders know we’ll invest in their training. We’ll support them. We’ll always have their backs.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Final supplementary.

Ms. Marit Stiles: Well, I know what side of which ocean we were next to, anyway, so what side of it. But I’ll tell you what: New Democrats will always be on the side of working people. Every single day, every picket line, we’ll be there.

Let’s be clear about what happened here. You have this great big fund that is supposed to connect people with training for good jobs. Applicants for the fund were ranked using very objective criteria, and all was well until the minister and his staff got their hands on those proposals. And all of a sudden, the proposals that were at the very bottom got to the top. What was the common denominator? Lobbyists—lobbyists with connections to this government, to this Premier and to this minister.

We’re seeing the minister now hanging out in Paris and at Leafs games with those very same lobbyists. So I want to ask the minister to come clean about his connections to lobbyists that have business before his ministry—or are we going to have to keep digging it up ourselves?

Hon. David Piccini: I’m proud to stand up here and talk about the hundred thousand people, thanks to the Skills Development Fund, that have now entered the job market, thanks to this important initiative. That’s just within 60 days of the fund, Speaker.

I think of stories like Jennifer, in a NORCAT Common Core mining program in the north. She was unemployed. Thanks to the Skills Development Fund, she’s now working at Musselwhite mine.

But we know that Jennifer wouldn’t have a job if left to the members opposite. They don’t support mining. They don’t support our Ring of Fire. They don’t support the infrastructure projects that are going to get people there.

The member opposite likes to talk about workers, Speaker. Workers and organized labour abandoned her party in droves in the last election, because they know that when it comes to securing and protecting their future, they can count on this Premier and this government to make the right investments.

Government accountability

Mr. John Fraser: Good morning, Speaker. My question is for the Premier.

Premier, I missed you. It’s so good to see you. I missed all of you. This is just like the first day of school, right? It feels like it. We always say it’s the first day of school, and that’s what it feels like—one heck of a summer break; I can see that the Premier’s tan is still going pretty well.

But in honour of the first day of school, let’s have a pop quiz. Is everybody into a pop quiz?

Interjections.

Mr. John Fraser: Okay. Here we go. One chance: Can the Premier explain to all of us exactly what a conflict of interest is?

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the government House leader.

Hon. Steve Clark: Thanks, Speaker—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Sit down. Stop the clock.

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Order.

MPP Jamie West: Just a reminder to get your spring fling tickets.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): The member for Sudbury will come to order.

I recognize the government House leader.

Hon. Steve Clark: Thanks, Speaker. Through you to the potential new leader of the Liberal Party: Our members did have a good summer. They worked hard in their ridings. They went to local events. They met with stakeholders. They worked hard.

I have to tell you: We are so excited to be members of Premier Ford’s team that is going to stand up to Donald Trump, that is going to ensure that workers are protected. They’re going to ensure that our economy moves forward, that we have the best public services in Ontario.

We’re going to continue to put forward pieces of legislation and other initiatives from our government. So if the member opposite wants to make jokes and have a pop quiz, we’re ready for every question you have to put before the government, and we’re going to deliver for the people of Ontario.

Mr. John Fraser: Well, I don’t think we got an answer, so I’ll let you know what a conflict of interest is, Speaker, through the Premier. It’s when you—

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): The Minister of Citizenship and Multiculturalism will come to order.

Mr. John Fraser: Speaker, it’s when your interest or someone else’s interest ahead of the people whose interest you’re supposed to protect.

Premier, the Minister of Labour intervened to award a $7.5-million contract from the Skills Development Fund to a company whose lobbyist is his close personal friend Michael Rudderham. Now, the minister openly admitted to this on radio; openly admitted to a conflict of interest using his influence. So, Speaker, to the Premier: Will he ask the Minister of Labour to step aside?

Hon. David Piccini: Speaker, we don’t need anyone on this side of the House to tell us to support our first responders, to support their training, to support their mental health, to make sure they’re equipped with the tools and the skill sets they need to run into danger while everyone else runs from it.

Let’s look at a project, Speaker, in the city of Mississauga: their first responders project to support firefighters, supported by then Mayor Bonnie Crombie. She personally reached out. She supported the project. She lauded the Premier when we made the announcement. We’re going to make those investments, because those first responders know that the alternative is to cut their funding, to deny funding, to defund the police. That’s the alternative on the other side of the House.

While I’m at it, I’ve got another letter in support of the Skills Development Fund from one of his own members, Speaker, advocating for a Skills Development Fund that was submitted late from his own member of that party. I’d love to chat a bit more about that.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Back to the leader of the third party.

Mr. John Fraser: So what the Premier should be saying to the minister is, “You’re fired.” You would be familiar with that, Premier. If the Premier doesn’t say that, here’s what this means, because the minister is clearly in a conflict of interest. He’s admitted it. He’s used his influence to further his friends—to his friends’ benefit. And if you don’t think that’s wrong, that means you think it’s okay, that all this is good, that everything that’s happened in the Skills Development Fund is okay, if you don’t fire this minister.

So my question to the Premier is, are you going to fire your Minister of Labour?

Hon. David Piccini: Speaker, every day we get up to create meaningful opportunities for our next generation. Under that member’s party, when they had the opportunity, when they held the balance of power, we saw a historic drop in the number of registered apprentices and youth who were seeking meaningful careers in the skilled trades.

But it’s no surprise. They didn’t build schools in communities like mine; they closed them. When it comes to what side rural Ontarians know they’re on, they support this government because we’re making investments in new schools. We’re making investments in hospitals. Those buildings aren’t going to build themselves. We need a next generation.

We’ve seen an historic increase in the number of women. I want to laud the carpenters who are here today in this House. Local 27 has played an important role in that, just to name one, Speaker. We’ll continue to make those investments to create meaningful opportunities.

Our record is clear: a 40% increase in women; an historic increase in the number of youth between 15 and 24. We’ll keep working hard, Speaker. We’re not going to pay attention to the members opposite.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Just a reminder to ask your questions through the Speaker.

Government accountability

Mr. John Fraser: My question is back to the Premier. The Auditor General has uncovered that more than half the money in the Skills Development Fund went to lower-scoring projects, which were more than half of the projects. Hundreds of millions of dollars were awarded to companies who were either friends, donors or lobbyists that were connected to the government. It’s the same names: Teneycke, Massoudi, Fidani-Diker, Diamond.

We know the Premier thinks this is all okay because he’s not going to fire his Minister of Labour. It’s all good, right, Premier?

Speaker, does the Premier believe that the government is his own personal piggy bank to reward insiders and well-connected lobbyists?

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Back to the Minister of Labour.

Hon. David Piccini: Speaker, we’re proud to have a robust public registry. It’s public for everyone to see, and nobody in Ontario believes, nobody believes, Speaker—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Order.

Hon. David Piccini: We have the most accessible Premier and the most accessible government in Ontario’s history. You doubt it? Just text the man. Just call the man. He’ll get back to you, Speaker.

Again, we don’t need anyone to tell us to invest in first responders or to create opportunities for men and women in the skilled trades who were abandoned under the previous government. That’s why organized labour has left them, Speaker. They know whose side they’re on.

They are on our side because we’re supporting meaningful investment in historic infrastructure projects—$200 billion in infrastructure—because behind each and every dollar there is a job, an opportunity for someone, for a young boy or a girl out there in Ontario who wants to be part of a better tomorrow, building hospitals, building schools, building highways, roads and critical infrastructure.

They could have done it on public transit; they didn’t. Under the Ontario Line, we will get the job done, Speaker.

Mr. John Fraser: Someone needs to remind the Premier that he’s not at Deco Labels anymore. The “hubba-chubba, wink-wink; you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours” doesn’t work for the 700,000 Ontarians who are looking for work, who are just worried about paying the rent, who are just concerned that they’re not going to be able to put food on the table for their kids.

I was in Windsor last week. One in 10 people are unemployed, the highest unemployment rate in the country.

So, Speaker, when will the Premier stop treating this government like a piggy bank to reward insiders and donors and friends?

Hon. David Piccini: Speaker, when it comes to this economy that’s under threat from south of the border, workers know who will have their backs. We’re facing all of these threats, and that’s the best this member can bring to the House.

He was in Windsor; so was I last week, Speaker. He spoke for two minutes at Building Trades. It was summarily dismissed by those members, who back our Skills Development Fund, who back this government, who are making historic investments in infrastructure.

He had the opportunity to build highways, Speaker; he didn’t. He had the opportunity to build schools; they closed them in rural Ontario in ridings like mine. That’s why we’re making investments in critical infrastructure. We’re breaking down barriers into the skilled trades. We’ve seen an historic number of women—in fact, that member should have mentioned the provincial building trades. They have a program to get women into the trades, supported by this government through the Skills Development Fund.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Final supplementary.

Mr. John Fraser: So, $27 million to bars and restaurants and nightclubs in downtown Toronto, money to law firms, money to veterinary clinics, money to dental brokerages, all with deep connections to either the Premier or one of his ministers. The rot runs deep in this government. It’s the same rot we saw in the greenbelt. And, funny enough, minister X—sorry, I mean Mr. X—is in the news with the Minister of Labour for another day.

I was in Thunder Bay. I was in Hamilton. I was in Brampton. I was in Brantford, and if I lived there right now and I was looking for work, I would be angry at this government, and I’d be right to be angry.

For the last time: When will the Premier stop treating government like a piggy bank for his friends and insiders?

Hon. David Piccini: Speaker, there you have it—the view on hospitality workers. It’s no wonder Unite Here, the local hospitality workers’ union, supports this Premier, because he doesn’t care whether you’re working in a restaurant or working in an office tower in downtown Toronto. All workers matter to this Premier. There has been no Premier who supports workers—so when he denigrates hospitality workers, he denigrates people like Unite Here, the incredible men and women who work hard to support newcomers in landing careers.

I went to one of their graduation ceremonies and I saw young men and women now working at the Sheridan. They were unemployed before. Thanks to our Skills Development Fund, they’ve entered the ranks of the employment sector, contributing to our economy, Speaker.

There has been no government that has stood shoulder to shoulder with workers. It’s based on relationships. We work hard to support them. We listen to them, we show up, and we’re always going to have the backs of Ontario’s workers.

Employment standards

MPP Jamie West: My question is for the Premier. There’s been a lot of bravado today about protecting workers, so I’m looking forward to this.

The Star recently reported nearly $200 million in wage theft. Those are wages that were reported to be stolen and proven to be stolen from Ontario’s workers. Of that, only $102.4 million was sent for collections. That’s basically half. And the Conservative government has only recovered less than a quarter of that $102 million.

My question is, why is the Premier allowing employers to get away with stealing money from workers?

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the Minister of Finance.

Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy: Madam Speaker, it’s good to see you. It’s good to see everyone back in the House and all of the people who have come here today, so thank you. And go, Blue Jays! I’m right on top of that as well.

First off, listening to all this, I just want to highlight that there has been no greater defender of Canada, no greater defender of Ontario, than Premier Doug Ford. That includes the workers of this great province. Only one government is standing up for workers, Madam Speaker. We’re standing up against Trump tariffs and helping create life-changing jobs, well-paying jobs in Ontario.

Let me be crystal clear: We have zero tolerance for wage theft, and under this government, we have established the strongest workplace protections in the country. Compliance is a legal obligation, and we are protecting workers. We have the highest fines in the country, and we won’t relent going after the bad actors.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): The member for Sudbury.

MPP Jamie West: Zero tolerance, yet $200 million was stolen from workers. They got one eighth of that back—one eighth. Do you know how it happened? It’s not an accident, Speaker.

In 2018, the Conservative Minister of Labour instructed staff not to initiate any proactive inspections on this. According to their own data, these proactive inspections prevent wage theft, and they’re far more effective at getting wage theft back than worker complaints. But they don’t have workers’ backs, Speaker. Workplace inspections today are 77% lower than they were seven years ago.

So Ontario has had $200 million stolen from Ontario’s workers. When is the Premier going to start tackling employers in the parking lots?

Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy: The member opposite would know clearly that we have doubled the fines from $50,000 to $100,000—the highest in the country—because we have the workers’ backs.

Let me highlight. Unlike the previous government, supported by the NDP, what we’ve done is we’ve invested in the economy. We’ve cut taxes. We’re building infrastructure. And we still have received two credit rating upgrades, Madam Speaker—eight clean audit opinions in a row, something they weren’t able to do. We have the lowest debt-to-GDP in a decade. Most importantly, we have an economy that has grown from $860 million when we took over to an economy of over $1.2 trillion because, Madam Speaker, we are laser-focused on standing up for the workers in this great province and standing up for the economy.

Government accountability

Mr. Stephen Blais: My question is for the Premier. Madam Speaker, Ontario workers are losing their jobs—Stellantis in Brampton, the Interfor sawmill in Ear Falls and too many others—all while this government rewards insiders instead of helping the skills training programs that scored the highest.

The Auditor General found that over half the skills development money went to low-scoring, politically connected applicants hand-picked by the minister’s office—no fairness, no transparency, no accountability. The minister calls it networking, but to everyone else, it looks like favour-trading.

Madam Speaker, how long will the Premier defend a system that rewards political friends while leaving Ontario workers behind?

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the Minister of Labour.

Hon. David Piccini: Let’s look at what the Auditor General actually said. She said the systems, processes and controls around KPIs—performance indicators—were very strong because we measure outcomes, like outcomes for a lower-scoring project in Mississauga supported by then Mayor Bonnie Crombie that was selected because we prioritize first responders, Speaker.

Fire training: I have personally visited, through the Office of the Fire Marshal and the Ontario Professional Fire Fighters Association, mobile training that is being brought into rural communities like mine all over Ontario to equip our firefighters with better training.

Speaker, when crime is on the rise across Ontario and our constituents want to know who is going to get tough on it—they support a revolving door of justice. They want bail, not jail, for violent offenders. On this side of the House, we are always going to support our first responders and make sure they have the training to ensure they can do the important work that they do every day.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Back to the member for Orléans.

Mr. Stephen Blais: Well, Madam Speaker, while Ontario workers were losing their jobs and wondering how they were going to pay the bills, the labour minister was sitting against the glass at a Leafs game with an executive to whose company he would later give millions in government cash. While workers get layoffs, insiders get access. Later, that minister attended a lobbyist’s wedding in Paris during Fashion Week. It’s nice to have friends with benefits.

We’ve seen this before with the greenbelt, with Therme, with those MZOs handed out to friends and donors—different files, same playbook. It isn’t a coincidence; it’s a pattern. Access pays, connections count and workers lose out.

Madam Speaker, how long will the Premier defend a minister who keeps proving that it’s who you know, not how hard you work, that matters most?

Hon. David Piccini: Speaker, let’s talk about one of the workers because I haven’t heard a name of a single worker out of any of the mouths of the members opposite. Let’s talk about Noah. Noah, through Support Ontario Youth, an important program supported through our Skills Development Fund, has now joined the ranks of shipbuilding in Ontario.

At a time when we’re under threat with global uncertainty, this Premier has stood up to protect Canada, to defend Canada. It is this Premier that’s ensured we are making the right investments to support shipbuilding, that wants a part of the National Shipbuilding Strategy because it’s going to create jobs and meaningful career opportunities for youth all across Ontario, like Noah, who, thanks to the Skills Development Fund, now has a job, a career for life.

Mining industry

MPP Bill Rosenberg: My question is for the Minister of Energy and Mines. Ontario’s energy and mining workers power this province. From Sudbury to Red Lake, they’re the backbone of our economy and the foundation of our clean energy future.

Yet while our workers build the technologies of tomorrow, we’re seeing troubling signs from the south. Donald Trump’s attacks on Ontario’s industries remind us that self-reliance matters. We can’t wait on Washington or Wall Street to secure our critical minerals. We need to keep acting, taking actions to be faster, smarter, stronger here at home.

Speaker, can the minister please tell this House how our government is protecting our energy and critical mineral sector and why acting now matters more than ever?

Hon. Stephen Lecce: I want to thank the member from Algoma–Manitoulin for his steadfast leadership for the north.

I want to affirm to the House that when we came to power we inherited a dubious record of being the second-slowest mining permitting regime in the OECD. And because the Premier had a vision and had a commitment to the people of Ontario, we will move with speed to unleash our economic potential.

I’m proud, Madam Speaker, that after initiating a bill this spring, just days ago, members of our Progressive Conservative team stood at the centre of global mining, at the TSX, to announce that “one project, one process,” a 50% reduction in the baseline of permitting in this province, is now the law of the land. And we cannot understate what this means to transforming our province into a leading jurisdiction for investment and jobs.

Madam Speaker, we’re giving certainty to investors. We’re giving confidence to workers that our Premier is going to double down on Canadian energy workers, resource workers, every single day. And more than ever, Madam Speaker, as we move from second slowest to among the fastest, we’re going to help safeguard our economy from risks from the US.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Back to the member for Algoma–Manitoulin.

MPP Bill Rosenberg: Thank you to the minister for the strong leadership. Speaker, Ontario’s mining sector isn’t just about jobs. It’s about national security, economic strength and independence. We’re watching global economic instability grow by the day. From illegal copper tariffs to supply chain disruptions, it’s clear Ontario must take control of its own future.

For too long, northern communities saw projects delayed or driven away by red tape and neglect under the previous Liberal government. Our workers have the skill and determination to build the batteries, semi-conductors and clean energy the world needs, but only if our government continues to act boldly.

Speaker, can the minister explain how “one project, one process” will get critical minerals out of the ground faster and ensure we are protecting Ontario’s economic sovereignty?

Hon. Stephen Lecce: I appreciate the member’s question. I don’t think it’s hyperbolic to suggest that Canada’s self-reliance really depends on our ability to get our exports out of the ground. Madam Speaker, in this province, it took too long: 15 years on average to get a mine approved, when in Western Australia or the European Union you can do it in half the time.

Our Premier is playing a challenge function to the government to ensure that we move faster, quicker, smarter to get things done, and to ensure we achieve jobs and results for the people of Ontario, especially since the last time our members were in this House, President Trump imposed new tariffs on copper. Now, more than ever, we have to move with speed, and I’m proud that this 24-month KPI, this new benchmark, is even quicker than the European Union, delivering investment certainty and jobs for the people of Ontario.

Forestry industry

Mr. Sol Mamakwa: ᒥᑵᐨ, Speaker. ᒥᓄᑭᔐᐸᔭ

Last week, Interfor shut down the Ear Falls sawmill indefinitely. This is, obviously, devastating for the people of Ear Falls, where 160 people were employed by the sawmill and represented by Unifor Local 324.

To the Premier: What is your government going to do to the help the 160 families dealing with this loss at the Ear Falls sawmill?

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the Associate Minister of Forestry and Forest Products.

Hon. Kevin Holland: Speaker, our government is disappointed with the news coming from Ear Falls. Immediately following the announcement of the shutdown of the mill, the Premier and I reached out to company officials and Mayor Kahoot offering support for the workers and the community.

Speaker, Ontario’s forest workers are impacted by the weak markets and unfair US tariffs and duties. Our government is taking actions to support the people of Ear Falls and the forestry jobs that keep northern Ontario moving, but we need Ottawa to work with us to deliver real solutions by addressing the issues causing turmoil in our forestry sector and engaging in real negotiations with the US President.

Ontario’s forest sector continues to face challenges from weak lumber markets and unfair US softwood lumber duties and tariffs now exceeding 45% for Ontario producers. This is creating serious pressure on the housing communities across the north.

Ontario’s forestry workers and communities have powered the province for generations. Our government will keep fighting unfair trade practices, supporting northern jobs and defending the long-term future of the Ontario—

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I now recognize the member for Thunder Bay–Superior North.

MPP Lise Vaugeois: Thank you very much, Speaker.

To the Premier: Ontario needs an industrial strategy to modernize and strengthen its forest sector, but this government doesn’t have one. Forestry is integrated. When one

part collapses the whole industry is at risk. We knew sawmills were in trouble when the pulp mill in Terrace Bay shut down.

We have the best lumber and best pulp in the world produced by skilled workers. Their jobs must be saved. Terrace Bay has been waiting for two years. Will the government finally step up and invest directly to modernize the mill in Terrace Bay?

Hon. Kevin Holland: People’s livelihoods are at stake and Ontarians expect us to focus on solutions, not arguments. That’s why I’ve been travelling across the province meeting with millworkers, local leaders and Indigenous partners to hear directly from them and ensure our actions match what’s happening on the ground.

Ontario has invested over $150 million to modernize mills, lower costs and help operations stay competitive during challenging market conditions. Through programs like the Forest Sector Investment and Innovation Program and the forest biomass program, we’re helping companies upgrade equipment, expand markets and find new uses for mill byproducts turning unused wood into economic opportunity.

Ontario continues to work directly with Indigenous partners to expand participation and strengthen local economies, and when mills face challenges, we step up, providing targeted financial support to stabilize operations and protect northern communities.

Our government is focused on delivering results, defending Ontario’s forest sector and making sure the people and communities who rely on it have a strong and stable future.

Government accountability

Ms. Stephanie Bowman: You know, the Minister of Labour has been getting a lot of attention recently, and it’s very well deserved. It started when the Auditor General released her scathing report on the Skills Development Fund.

Here’s what she said: “The Minister’s Office Chose to Fund Poor-, Low- and Medium-Ranked Applications 54% of the Time Instead of High-Ranked Applications.” She found “the selection process was not fair, transparent or accountable.”

But, Speaker, let’s not leave the Minister of Labour standing alone. Let’s not forget that the Minister of Finance approved the budget, that the President of the Treasury Board signed the cheques, and they all report to the Premier.

My question to the Premier: When will he take accountability for this scandal in his government and dig out the rot?

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the Minister of Labour.

Hon. David Piccini: I wish I had that member’s attention when I invited a number of members opposite, of that party, to join me to visit Windmill Microlending. That is one of the SDF recipients—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Order.

Hon. David Piccini: I’m going to quote the Auditor General: “The system processes controls around KPIs were quite strong.” That’s one of the groups supported through SDF that has such strong outcomes.

Let me tell you how. I met a bunch of newcomers who, through the microlending loans, have helped credential on systems for international credentialing through the regulatory bodies that we’ve gotten tough on to ensure we’re getting newcomers into jobs that they were trained to do to drive GDP, Speaker.

I invited members opposite. Not one showed up. But you know what? There are constituents in their riding who did know—the power of SDF to change lives—and we’re going to continue doing it.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Back to the member for Don Valley West.

Ms. Stephanie Bowman: I do know Windmill Microlending. I have met with them. I know they do great work. But that’s not actually what we’re talking about today.

The Auditor General told us that this PC government used billions in taxpayer money unfairly, without transparency, and with no accountability.

This government set the criteria for the SDF applications. Ministry staff evaluated them and yet, 670 highly ranked organizations got no money because the government used preferential treatment so they could dole out money to their friends and those who used their lobbyist friends. Of course, we shouldn’t be surprised. It’s a pattern with this government. After all, they tried to make their friends $8.3 billion richer with the greenbelt.

And yet, the Premier calls the SDF one of their best programs ever. It’s hard to believe.

So my question back to the Premier: When will he reverse his position, admit this is one of the worst programs ever and dig out the rot?

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the Minister of Finance.

Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy: It’s been one of the best programs ever for almost a million workers in this great province, Madam Speaker.

And while we’re at it, why don’t we talk about their record when they were in government? Did the Liberal government increase taxes or lower taxes?

Interjection: Increased them.

Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy: They increased taxes.

Madam Speaker, what has this Premier done?

Hon. Charmaine A. Williams: Lower them.

Hon. Peter Bethlenfalvy: Lowered taxes—thank you. There’s $11.9 billion in the budget for businesses. That’s $12 billion in the pockets of businesses and workers so they can invest in the economy—$12.9 billion for the consumers and the people and families of this great province. And do you know what that does when you put money back into people’s pockets, back into the businesses across this great province? You drive a $1.2-trillion economy. That’s what you do.

Agri-food industry

Mr. Joseph Racinsky: Thank you, Speaker. It’s great to see you. It’s great to be back in the Legislature.

Ontario’s farmers feed our province and our country. They work hard every single day to keep our shelves stocked and our communities strong.

But we’re facing serious global economic challenges. The threat of tariffs from President Trump continues to create uncertainty. Input costs are rising, and our farmers are feeling the pressure.

Speaker, it’s not just about economics—it’s about food security, rural jobs and protecting our way of life. Ontario must be ready. We must stand up for our farmers, for our agri-food businesses and for rural families.

Can the Minister of Agriculture, Food and Agribusiness explain what our government is doing to protect Ontario’s agriculture sector from these economic threats and ensure a strong, secure food supply for the future?

Hon. Trevor Jones: Thank you to the exceptional member from Wellington–Halton Hills for that question. Our government was re-elected on an historic third majority mandate to do two things: protect Ontario and secure our food supply.

Just two weeks ago, I was alongside that member at the nationally renowned Elora research station to announce $41 million in strategic funding to support just that: our farmers, our food and food security.

ARIO is more than just a network of 14 nationally renowned research stations and farms across every growing region in Ontario. It’s the very best minds in farming, agribusiness and infrastructure for farming.

Fifteen million dollars of that $41 million will build the new Ontario Feed Innovation Centre in Elora, and $26 million goes towards supporting those capital projects. We’ll continue to make those strategic investments to protect and feed Ontario.

Mr. Joseph Racinsky: Thank you to the minister for that response. It was great to host you at Elora for that exciting announcement.

Ontario farmers don’t just feed our province. They feed North America. Our crops, our dairy and our livestock are shipped across the border every single day. But with new trade pressures and unpredictable decisions coming from Washington, Ontario must continue to stand up for our farmers and for tariff-free trade.

It’s clear that our agriculture sector depends on strong partnerships and open markets. These relationships are built on trust and co-operation. They are rooted in a shared commitment to feeding our people, protecting our communities and keeping our economy strong.

Can the minister please explain how our government is working to protect Ontario’s farmers and ensure that our province remains a trusted leader in North American food and agriculture?

Hon. Trevor Jones: Just last night, I returned home from Mexico to chair the Tri-National Agricultural Accord, representing Canada and Ontario. I met with leaders from all across Mexico, all across the United States and Canada to do an important thing: to advance trade and to prioritize our relationship as a global leader in food production and our place in the world as a safe, trusted leader of food and agriculture systems.

Just prior to that, I met the Secretary of Agriculture from Pennsylvania, Russ Redding, at Canada’s Outdoor Farm Show. We walked the farm show and talked to real people, families, farmers, agribusiness leaders. These conversations are advancing our place, setting the stage for CUSMA to make sure we keep our place as a global leader for trusted food, and a global leader for the very best farmers in the world.

Unemployment

MPP Lisa Gretzky: My question is to the Premier. Windsor has the highest unemployment rate in Canada, near 11%, with youth unemployment approaching 18%. We are seeing significant job losses in manufacturing and related sectors, as well as job cuts to education, health care and social services sectors.

Families are struggling to make ends meet, and food bank use is at an all-time high and continues to climb. Some 800,000 people across the province are unemployed, with the largest concentration in Windsor.

It is clear that the Premier is not protecting Ontario workers as he promised. Will the Premier tell us what he is going to do differently to honour his word and actually protect workers and jobs in my community?

Hon. Doug Ford: Well, let’s talk about the jobs and the $46 billion that came to Ontario, because we created the environment and the conditions to have companies come here and invest. Last year alone, over 409 companies came here and invested $39.8 billion—$40 billion—and created 25,000 jobs right in your area.

We’re going to continue being one of the most prosperous areas anywhere in the world, and that’s why we’re focusing on key areas, not just manufacturing. We have more manufacturing jobs than Florida and New York state combined. We have 825,000 manufacturing jobs here, but guess what we’re doing? We’re focusing on other areas, too—in-demand jobs.

The Ring of Fire, which will bring $22 billion and 75,000 jobs: Guess what? You’re dead against it. Your party voted against the Ring of Fire. You don’t believe in mining. You don’t believe in nuclear. You wanted to shut down the Pickering nuclear facility. We’re going to build new nuclear small modular reactors, large—

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the member for Oshawa.

Ms. Jennifer K. French: In Oshawa, unemployment is high and morale is low. Oshawa built General Motors, but our automotive future feels really uncertain. People are very worried about the future of their jobs in the auto industry. Workers in Oshawa need this government to do everything possible to protect their jobs. We need deals and we need strings attached. Photo ops don’t save or create jobs.

The Premier has had three and a half months away from Queen’s Park and from accountability. In that time, what has the Premier done to guarantee auto jobs in Oshawa and guarantee they will be secure and that GM can’t just hit the road?

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the Minister of Economic Development, Job Creation and Trade.

Hon. Victor Fedeli: President Trump’s tariffs certainly are causing a lot of uncertainty for businesses, for workers and supply chains on both sides of the border. We have addressed this very clearly in all of the programs that we’ve put forward:

—$30 billion worth of firepower to help our industries;

—the $1 billion Protect Ontario Financing Program;

—$1.3 billion in the new expansion to the Ontario Made Manufacturing Investment Tax Credit;

—there are companies lined up for our $50 million in the Ontario Trade Together Fund; and

—$40 million in the tariff-impacted communities.

Speaker, we are doing everything possible to help the workers in Ontario: our auto workers, our life science workers, our tech workers. We continue to invest in the province of Ontario and the workers in Ontario.

Government accountability

MPP Tyler Watt: Madam Speaker, it’s good to be back. Ontarians have been waiting five long months for answers and accountability, so let’s get to work.

My question is for the Premier. I remember on the night of the 2018 election, the Premier, in his victory speech, said, “The party with the taxpayers’ money is over. It’s done.” Actions speak louder than words, and let’s look at that. The Auditor General found that $2.5 billion from the Skills Development Fund was “not fair, transparent, or accountable.”

One example is we learned that the labour minister attended a lavish Paris wedding for a lobbyist whose client received over $8.5 million from that fund.

Nobody is questioning the purpose of this program; we’re questioning the execution and clear conflict of interest.

So, Madam Speaker, when will the Premier come clean about who got the money, how they got it and why his minister is partying with lobbyists instead of helping Ontario workers?

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the Minister of Labour.

Hon. David Piccini: Speaker, I appreciate any opportunity to stand up here and talk about the work we’re doing to support workers. The Auditor General in her report talked a lot about outcomes and how this fund is focused on outcomes. When she referenced KPIs, she said the system’s processes and controls were quite strong around these KPIs, and that’s what we’re going to continue to do.

This fund is changing lives. I don’t know how members opposite, on the one hand, can say this is one of the worst funds ever, and then that very member asking the question writes to me to support a program in his own riding that was submitted late.

Speaker, we’re going to continue working hard to support workers like the construction workers in Ottawa who support this government because we’re making historic investments in new hospitals and new public transit, just to name a few.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Supplementary.

MPP Tyler Watt: That answer doesn’t cut it, and I’ll tell you why. Hundreds of college training programs across this province have been cancelled due to the cuts and underfunding of post-secondary education by this government. For example, a resident in my riding told me a story about her son who was supposed to attend George Brown College this year. He got an apartment and found out last minute that his program has been cancelled, so now he’s in Ottawa, paying rent for an apartment in Toronto and not getting an education.

Madam Speaker, this government’s rationale for the Skills Development Fund was to fill the gaps to train workers and help build up Ontario, especially in lieu of all those cuts to college and post-secondary across Ontario. This means that the people who are eager and ready to educate themselves, to build up this province, can’t get the skills they need to do so because they’re too busy handing out millions of dollars to people connected to them and friends.

So again, Madam Speaker, when will this government stop rewarding friends and start rewarding merit?

Hon. David Piccini: Again, very troubling to call that fund what they called it yet ask for the support from that fund, Speaker.

This is classic Liberal discovery math. The cut for international student revenue by the federal government, a decision by the federal government, that member says is on this government. It just doesn’t make any sense. What the member failed to tell you, Speaker, is that over $300 million through the Skills Development Fund, which is partnering with college and university partnerships, is supporting folks like the Electrical Contractors Association of Ontario, helping people get into project management to manage projects that they didn’t invest in, but we are.

The Ottawa Hospital, Highway 413, the Bradford Bypass: These are all construction projects that we need construction project managers for that we’re working through the SDF with colleges and universities to deliver on, Speaker.

Road safety

Mr. Amarjot Sandhu: My question is for the Minister of Transportation. Speaker, families across Ontario are doing their best to make ends meet. The old Liberal carbon-tax cash grab made gas, groceries and housing all cost more. Now on top of that, they’re being hit with unfair speed camera tickets. These cameras were supposed to make our streets safer. Instead, they have turned into cash machines for municipalities.

We have seen the reports. One camera in Brampton issued over 32,000 tickets in just three weeks. Madam Speaker, that’s not safety; that’s a money grab. Ontarians want safer space, not surprise fines.

Can the minister tell this House what our government is doing to stop these cash-grab cameras and stand up for drivers and families across Ontario?

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the member for Brampton East.

Mr. Hardeep Singh Grewal: Thank you very much, Speaker, and thank you to the great, hard-working member from Brampton West for that important question.

The days of cash-grab cameras are numbered. We’ve seen what’s happening in Brampton and Toronto: thousands of tickets just from a handful of cameras. That’s not slowing people down; it’s hitting them in their wallets.

Our government is focused on real solutions to reduce speeding and keep streets safe, not on sending tickets weeks after the fact—

Interjections.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): The member for Ajax will come to order.

Mr. Hardeep Singh Grewal: We’ve asked municipalities to pull these cameras, and if they don’t comply, our government is ready to take action. Since day one, our government’s been focused on keeping costs down for families and businesses. We’ve scrapped tolls, frozen driver’s licence fees, eliminated licence plate stickers. We’ve cut the gas tax while the Liberals want to support the carbon tax. We fought against the carbon tax, Speaker.

Now we’re standing up for drivers again: no more surprise tickets, no more revenue schemes, no more cash grabs, and we’re going to make sure that we put safety first under this Premier’s leadership.

Mr. Amarjot Sandhu: Thank you to the parliamentary assistant for that answer. Parents in my community want drivers to slow down when passing a school. A hidden speed camera doesn’t stop speeding when it happens. All it does is send a ticket weeks later in the mail. In some cases, drivers were even ticketed before they entered the reduced speed zone.

When municipalities see the number of tickets go up, you would think that they would use that money to make roads safer, but instead too many are just collecting the cash. Parents don’t want revenue tools; they want real safety.

Can the parliamentary assistant explain what steps our government is taking to reduce speeding and protect our children in school zones?

Mr. Hardeep Singh Grewal: Thank you again to the member from Brampton West.

Under the leadership of our Premier, we’ve taken real action to reduce speeding and improve road safety. We want all of our children to be safe. They shouldn’t have to worry about a flying car passing by their child’s school.

That’s why our government is proposing new measures that will prevent speeding when it happens. This includes supporting municipalities with traffic-calming measures such as speed bumps and warning signs.

It’s clear cameras are not reducing speeding, but they are raising cash for municipalities, and the cash isn’t being reinvested in speed-calming measures. We’ve heard the member from Brampton West talk about thousands and thousands—30,000—speeding tickets issued off one camera in Brampton, over 75,000 tickets off of one camera in Toronto.

Interjection.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Order.

Mr. Hardeep Singh Grewal: We’re going to make sure that the money is invested where it should go, and that’s protecting our children, protecting our youth and installing these traffic-calming measures. That’s what we’re going to do.

Youth unemployment

Ms. Jessica Bell: My question is to the Premier. Youth unemployment is at 22.2%, the highest in a generation, but instead of offering solutions, this Premier told young people to work harder.

At our NDP youth jobs round table, we heard the truth: Too many young people are chasing too few jobs. One worker told me, “I’ve sent out hundreds of applications and can’t even get an interview.” This isn’t a work ethic problem; it is a jobs problem.

My question is for the Premier: When is this Premier going to stop blaming youth and start building real career opportunities for them?

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the Minister of Labour.

Hon. David Piccini: We’ve heard from the Premier: over a million net new jobs created under this Premier’s leadership, who stands up for Canada, who stands against a President who’s launched a war on our key critical sectors.

But he doesn’t stop there. He looks at bringing in manufacturing through creating a low-tax environment. He looks at creating meaningful pathways into the trades. Why? Because for the first time ever, we’re building hospitals. We’re building highways. We’re actually building public transit.

We launched our Level Up! skilled trades career fairs, exposing youth to meaningful opportunities in the skilled trades. More youth today than at any point in modern history have signed up for an apprenticeship for a rewarding career. With one in three skilled tradespeople retiring in the next decade, now more than ever we need to make those investments. That’s exactly what we’re doing.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the member for Waterloo.

Ms. Catherine Fife: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. According to the Labour Force Survey, between 2019 and 2025, Ontario unemployment rates among teens aged 15 to 19 climbed from 14.9% to 22.2%. This means nearly one in four teenagers in Ontario’s labour force is now unemployed. Speaker, these are recession employment numbers.

This is very serious; we need a Premier to take this seriously. Youth are desperately trying to find jobs, but they are losing hope. Where’s the plan to incentivize youth hiring? Why haven’t you expanded work-integrated learning?

To the Premier: Where is the damn plan to protect these workers in Ontario?

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I will ask the member to withdraw.

Ms. Catherine Fife: Withdraw.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I recognize the Minister of Labour.

Hon. David Piccini: Like I said, this Premier is laser-focused on creating those meaningful pathways for youth. We recognize that we’re not immune from global uncertainty. Our country is not immune from that, but when it comes to standing up for our country, it’s this Premier. Youth know that when it comes to getting from A to Z, they need to get on public transit. It’s this Premier making those investments.

When it comes to jobs in AI and tech, it’s this Premier creating a competitive climate in which to bring those manufacturers, those companies here. We have a life sciences sector boom, Speaker, thanks to investments from this Premier.

We’re going to continue working hard to create those opportunities. We welcome ideas to get youth into meaningful employment. That’s why we launched the Level Up! career fair, Speaker, and I’ve seen some of those members opposite attend it. These are the things we’ve got to do to show youth there are pathways—there are pathways today that lead into jobs—and we’re never going to stop working hard for those youth.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Seeing there are no deferred votes, this House stands in recess until 1 p.m.

The House recessed from 1150 to 1300.

Reports by Committees

Standing Committee on Social Policy

Mr. Brian Riddell: I beg leave to present a report from the Standing Committee on Social Policy on the estimates selected by the standing committee for consideration.

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Ms. Meghan Stenson): Mr. Riddell from the Standing Committee on Social Policy presents the committee’s report as follows:

Report presented.

Standing Committee on Heritage, Infrastructure and Cultural Policy

Mr. Aris Babikian: I beg leave to present a report from the Standing Committee on Heritage, Infrastructure and Cultural Policy and move its adoption.

The Clerk-at-the-Table (Ms. Meghan Stenson): Your committee begs to report the following bill as amended:

Bill 9,

An Act to amend the City of Toronto Act, 2006 and the Municipal Act, 2001 in relation to codes of conduct / Projet de loi 9, Loi modifiant la Loi de 2006 sur la cité de Toronto et la Loi de 2001 sur les municipalités en ce qui concerne les codes de déontologie.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Shall the report be received and adopted?

Twelve members having stood in their places, we will now have a 30-minute report-stage debate on the motion for the adoption of the report on the bill as amended, pursuant to standing order 38(b). In this debate, each recognized party is allotted eight minutes and the independent members are allotted a total of six minutes.

I recognize the member for Orléans.

Mr. Stephen Blais: Over the summer, committee packed up and hit the road. They went to London, Niagara Falls, Barrie, Ottawa and Thunder Bay, listening to residents, integrity commissioners, municipal staff and survivors of harassment. They came in good faith. They told their stories. Some relived trauma they had spent years trying to put behind them. They believed their government was listening. But after all that testimony, after all of that travel, after all of that taxpayer money, one thing became crystal clear: The government never intended to change a single word of Bill 9.

The hearings weren’t about consultation. They were a cross-province photo op, a waste of time, a waste of money and, frankly, a waste of hope.

Bill 9 pretends to fix municipal accountability. It talks about serious cases and stronger codes of conduct, but the fine print tells a different story. Cabinet “may” prescribe a code of conduct—not “shall” prescribe or “will” prescribe; it “may” prescribe. There’s no real guarantee of a single standard. It’s optional. It’s window dressing.

And the so-called ultimate penalty, the removal of a councillor or a mayor from office: That decision is left to the very same council colleagues—the friends, the allies and the political partners—of the person being accused. And not just a vote—not a majority, not even a two-thirds super majority. It requires unanimous consent. Every single colleague—nobody can be absent. One friend, one political buddy, one member of the old boys’ club, can block accountability. Under Bill 9, if you can find a single friend, you can keep your seat, no matter what you’ve done.

Let’s be honest about what that means. Many of us here have served in municipal politics over the years. It can be a tight circle—small towns, close relationships, favours owed. When the worst behaviour happens, too often it’s inside that same circle. And Bill 9 hands the keys of discipline to the same insiders who already protect each other. That’s not a code of conduct. That’s a code of silence. Bill 9 protects the good old boys’ club, not the people who work for them.

We heard loud and clear from witnesses. Integrity commissioners told us this unanimous vote is almost an impossible threshold. A partner with one of the biggest law firms in municipal affairs in Ontario, Aird and Berlis, called it fatally flawed. Democracy Watch called it a kangaroo court. Survivors called it a betrayal. Even the integrity commissioner of Toronto warned that the structure will water down stronger local regimes and block justice for victims.

Imagine working in an office where your abuser keeps their job because their best friend down the hall refuses to vote them out. That’s what Bill 9 creates. That’s not accountability. That’s impunity.

Ontario didn’t need another summer road show to learn this lesson. We already had the solution on the table. It was called Bill 5, the Stopping Harassment and Abuse by Local Leaders Act. That bill would have made every councillor subject to workplace violence and harassment policies, just like everyone else. Then, if an integrity commissioner found serious misconduct, it could be referred to a judge, and a judge would make a decision. An independent court could vacate the seat and bar the person from running again. That’s real accountability. That’s an independent, transparent, survivor-centred process.

But the government voted it down. Then they copied parts of it into Bill 9, but they removed the parts that actually mattered, the parts that gave it teeth. They took the body of Bill 5 and stripped out its soul.

Let’s talk about this summer tour a little bit. Five cities, dozens of witnesses, thousands of kilometres travelled, tens of thousands of taxpayers’ dollars spent—not a single change recommended by the members of the government who sit on the committee; not a single amendment accepted to fix the bill’s biggest problems. This government must think that they’re perfect.

Everywhere committee went, people asked the same question afterwards: “Why are we here if they’ve already made up their minds?” The media called it out. The Pointer called it, again, “a kangaroo court.” TVO said it was a waste of everyone’s time; I believe there was an op-ed in the Ottawa Citizen to the same effect. They’re right.

If you’re not going to listen to people, then why don’t you just stay in Toronto? You don’t need a summer road show to believe that you’re perfect. Don’t drag survivors and staff across the province to relive their trauma for a bill that you won’t change.

Interjections.

Mr. Stephen Blais: Madam Speaker, they can heckle over there; they can call it what they want. But you can’t call it accountability when the accused gets to stack the jury.

The cost of doing nothing to address this kind of harassment and abuse isn’t, and shouldn’t be, measured in committee travel expenses—although for a government that’s so proud of its pretty bad financial record, one would think they would try to avoid wasting taxpayer dollars. The cost of doing nothing is measured in the staff who quit, the expertise and the passion our cities and towns lose out on, the residents who lose faith, and the survivors who decide it’s safer to stay silent.

When those people look at Bill 9, they see a system still run by insiders, still governed by silence, and still stacked against accountability. They see a government protecting the good old boys’ club, not the community.

Bill 9 leaves the fox guarding the henhouse. It says to every councillor and mayor, “Don’t worry. As long as your buddies have your back, you’re safe.” It tells every staffer who has been bullied or harassed, “We believe you, but only if your abusers or friends agree.” And it tells taxpayers that their government is more interested in protecting insiders than protecting integrity. That’s not accountability.

The people who came to those hearings deserved a government with the courage to stand up to the club, to not bow down to it. They deserved a law that says no one, no matter how well connected, is above the rules. Accountability should not depend on who you drink coffee with or go for a beer with.

The government had a chance to fix this bill, to replace politics with principle, to replace friendship with fairness, to replace the backroom with the courtroom, and they blew it.

Madam Speaker, real accountability doesn’t come from unanimous votes or summer road shows. It comes from courage, and, unfortunately, this government hasn’t shown any.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Furter debate?

Mr. Jeff Burch: It’s a pleasure to have an opportunity to rise and speak to this.

I appreciate my colleague from Orléans. We’ve both put forward legislation since 2021, when we first started discussing this issue. They were both voted down.

I think the government, on their third try, came forward with legislation that most people in the province recognize as completely inadequate.

Last session, we had all kinds of bills that were time-allocated and rammed through the Legislature. This was actually one where the government decided, “We’re going to have committee hearings across the province.” And I welcomed that because there were flaws in the bill that needed to be fixed. So they spent thousands of dollars, as my colleague mentioned, travelling the province, seeking input on the bill, and ended up changing nothing.

The government ignored advice from experts and stakeholders and voted down our key amendment, one that we and most stakeholders all agreed on: that a non-political process to remove municipal councillors by judicial review is needed. Asking city council for a unanimous vote to remove a colleague guilty of egregious acts will not work. The process needs to be fair, it needs to be objective, and it needs to be evidence-based. Why pay for community consultation if you don’t listen to anyone?

All kinds of questions came up, not just the question of removal of a councillor. Will requiring a unanimous council vote following two inquiries by two integrity commissioners finding serious misconduct set the bar for removal too high? Almost everyone agreed that, yes, it will.

Why is the decision on removal being left to council and not to a judge, as AMO and others have recommended? If politicians, not a judge, are deciding whether to remove another politician, is there not a risk of politicizing the process, or at least creating the appearance of politicization?

As someone who served two terms on a city council—as many of my colleagues have municipal experience, we all know that it’s a politically charged environment, and expecting a unanimous vote of a city council and all members having to be present is not a reasonable bar when you’re trying to protect people in the municipal arena from egregious acts of sexual harassment and assault. It’s just not reasonable.

In 2021, the NDP—myself—was briefed on a bill that included a provision allowing a judge to remove a councillor found guilty of serious misconduct. Why did the government scrap that bill and abandon the principle of judicial review and then come forward with a bill that was completely inadequate, then hold committee hearings across the province, and then ignore the advice from everyone?

Former Ontario Integrity Commissioner David Wake recommended that Ontario establish a central database of all completed inquiries. There’s no such provision in this bill. Will it be created via regulation? We just don’t know. That’s something that came up in our conversations while we were travelling the committee.

David Wake also recommended that the Ontario government help smaller municipalities manage costs, something smaller municipalities asked for. There is no such provision in this bill.

Does the government intended to provide additional financial support to help smaller municipalities manage the cost of hiring an integrity commissioner?

These and many other questions were not answered, despite being brought up by many municipal stakeholders throughout those presentations.

Just in case the government decides to time-allocate this debate and not provide us time to speak about the input that we received in committee, I want to make sure that certain things are on the record.

We heard from the president of the Association of Municipal Managers, Clerks and Treasurers of Ontario, Ms. Danielle Manton. She said they understand “the need for a high threshold when removing an elected member of council from office, but we do think that the government could consider a voting threshold of two thirds of council, as AMO has also proposed.”

So there you have AMO, representing 440 municipalities across Ontario, and the organization representing the municipal clerks and managers across Ontario making a suggestion based on what all of their members have told them, completely ignored by the government.

They went on to say, “To actually have an integrity commissioner matter go through two independent accountability officers, only to then put the onus on that council, who is also meant to collaborate and be united in some of their decision-making where possible—it’s very difficult for a council to show up and have to have a unanimous vote on something that is actually affecting one of their own members. So I do think that looking at a threshold of two thirds of council would be something that we would recommend.”

That’s a recommendation that the government could have accepted.

Kathryn Desrosiers, a municipal councillor in the town of Alymer, said, “The prospects of being removed through a subjective or politicized process, without due process, could discourage women, young people, and equity-deserving groups from stepping forward to serve. Rather than strengthening democracy, this could inadvertently narrow it.”

Michael Di Lullo: “I’m here on behalf of the Ontario Municipal Administrators Association....

“You must remove politics from the most serious decisions. Bill 9 currently proposes that removal from office be subject to a vote of council. That’s not good enough. It risks retraumatizing victims and turning serious misconduct into a popularity contest. We believe removal should be a legal decision, not a political one”—something that everyone agrees to, something that the opposition parties agree to and were willing to support in committee.

The Association of Ontario Road Supervisors: “Previous versions of this legislation propose a judicial review process, which added a layer of independence and safeness. That safeguard is missing from Bill 9.”

On and on and on, we have delegation after delegation suggesting that the government take a look at the suggestions of opposition parties, of AMO, of municipal managers across Ontario to come forward with a fair, evidence-based process that will protect folks at the municipal level from serious and egregious acts of misconduct. But the government has ignored this over and over and over again.

So we would join our colleagues on this side of the House asking for the government—it’s not too late. They can make changes. They can take a look at this. They can listen to the advice of all of the groups, all of the stakeholders, like the Women of Ontario Say No, who depended on this government and on this committee to come up with a bill that actually protected women and other persons in the municipal arena from these egregious acts of misconduct. The government has failed on this. We, as the opposition, are asking them.

It’s not too late. Listen to what we’ve said. Listen to what the stakeholders have said and make the changes that are necessary to protect folks at the municipal level.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Further debate?

Mr. Matthew Rae: Welcome back, everyone. It’s great—

Interjection.

Mr. Matthew Rae: My colleague from Beaches–East York is already heckling me, Speaker. I haven’t even started.

It’s great to be back in the Legislative Assembly of Ontario, this very historic building. It’s great that the members of the third party wanted to hear little old Matt Rae, speak today. I guess they missed my voice at committee.

I know some members were at committee this summer, and I know it has been talked about at length about how the committee travelled. As my colleague mentioned, it went to Ottawa, Thunder Bay, Whitby, Niagara and London.

Obviously, with all committees, colleagues, as we all know in this place, you can still submit—even if you’re not able to; we all have very busy lives—feedback to a committee through the committee process, whether it’s written form or to the Clerk directly.

It’s an important process of our democratic system—having committees and travelling those committees. We travelled extensively.

It was a little disheartening hearing the member from Orléans saying that committee is a waste of time. I know I don’t view committees in that aspect.

Committees are meeting today, doing important work.

Government estimates are coming up. I know our ministers are looking very much forward to sharing the good news that our government is doing, making those investments in communities across Ontario, not just downtown Toronto, ensuring that we’re investing in Thunder Bay, Niagara, London—Ottawa, even. A new deal in Ottawa—unfortunately, the members of the third party voted against that new deal.

Interjection.

Mr. Matthew Rae: It’s shameful, I know.

I was very shocked to hear the members opposite say that committee was a waste of time. I know we heard extensively from AMO, the northern municipalities, rural Ontario, as well. There was a lot of great feedback through that process on this piece of legislation we are debating here today.

Interjections.

Mr. Matthew Rae: Speaker, they’re still trying to drown out this really reasoned debate on a Monday afternoon in October, ensuring that we’re here debating legislation, as the people of Ontario elected us to do—on this legislation we’re talking about today. I’m assuming we’re all going to agree that it should be reported back. For the vast majority of things, we report back to this House with very little fanfare. It is part of the process and procedure in this place.

Really, today, we’re talking about the Municipal Accountability Act. We heard through that committee, and even before, that many groups had brought forward ideas on how to improve accountability and, really, safety and codes of conduct in the municipal workforce. We have 444 municipalities across Ontario, and this, unfortunately, is a challenge in many of them.

Our government has been listening. I know Minister Flack, myself, and many others of my colleagues and members of the opposition, both parties—even the independents, I believe, attended AMO and heard from our municipal partners about some things we can do to improve accountability and the codes of conduct for our municipal staff and our municipal colleagues, ensuring we have good governance in Ontario.

Good governance is part of our country’s foundation, colleagues. It’s part of what our country was founded to do. They saw what was happening south of the border—similar to what’s happening now, I would argue—and didn’t want any part of that. They wanted good governance over 150 years ago now, colleagues.

This is a continuation of that, working with our municipal partners to ensure that they work in a safe environment. It has been talked about at committee and before this bill was brought forward, for many years now. But what was talked about was how it was councillor and councillor—I also heard, in my own role as parliamentary assistant to the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing, about how it’s also staff to staff and staff and councillor as well.

So it’s ensuring that we’re encompassing all people who work in our municipal side of things, whether it’s the staff or councillors, ensuring that we’re there to support them and the important work they do.

We have an ambitious plan to build Ontario—$200 billion in infrastructure spending over the next 10 years. That includes hospitals, roads, bridges all across Ontario. As I mentioned, our government ministers will be doing estimates at committee, talking about some of those good investments across Ontario, ensuring that we’re continuing to invest in those communities.

I know we’re entering a municipal election next year, and we’re going to ensure that we continue to work with our municipal colleagues and that they are supported, whether it’s the historic amounts of—

Interjections.

Mr. Matthew Rae: I know.

They just keep interrupting.

I need to pause. I’m going to take a drink.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Order.

Mr. Matthew Rae: It is a municipal election next year—and yes, there will be a municipal election next year. Bonnie Crombie may be running for the mayor of Mississauga again—I’m not sure, but to be seen.

I was going on my line of thought there around the additional OMPF funding we’re providing to our rural and northern municipalities, which is very important to them.

This piece of bill was another example of us working with our colleagues, listening to that feedback; ensuring we’re establishing a standard code of conduct for all municipalities—for every mayor, councillor, and member of a local board is held to the same ethical standards; creating a consistent and province-wide framework for integrity commissioners, something we heard former commissioner David Wake recommend to our government. What we have heard from our municipal colleagues is very important.

I know the minister and the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing continued to do that important work, even over the summer, and introduced mandatory training for elected officials, building upon that training that is already offered to our municipal colleagues, but ensuring that those individuals who may be deciding to potentially throw their hat in the ring for mayor of Toronto or mayor of any other city is—

Interjection.

Mr. Matthew Rae: Maybe the member from Beaches–East York is going to run for mayor.

Interjection: I’d vote for her.

Mr. Matthew Rae: I’d vote for the member from Beaches–East York to be mayor, and I know who her councillor is.

Ensuring the mandatory training for elected officials—outside of the larger urban centres, this is a part-time role. Many of my colleagues on the municipal side served in those rural or northern municipalities. They have other responsibilities and other jobs, professional lives. Not everyone is a policy nerd like myself and understands Robert’s Rules of Order or anything else—so it’s ensuring they understand those aspects.

The bill that we are debating today—and really, I’m always happy to talk about municipal codes of conduct and those important aspects with our colleagues of all parties—is creating the conditions and good framework for good municipal governance, something I think all of us can agree on and something we can all agree to strive for. I know the Minister of Municipal Affairs and Housing will continue to strive to do that, to ensure that we are working with our municipal colleagues, all 444 of them, and ensure that we’re there to support them—as we have for the past seven-plus years. And we’ll continue to do so.

With that, Speaker, I’d like to conclude my remarks this afternoon.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Further debate?

Ms. Bobbi Ann Brady: A few weeks ago, I wrote a newspaper column describing how governments deliberately create or exaggerate a situation or a problem so they can implement a predetermined solution taxpayers might not otherwise accept. The conclusion to that column was “Today, the school board trustee, and tomorrow, the municipal councillor. It’s a slippery slope toward the demise of democracy, and as taxpayers, we will not know what we had until it is gone.” That’s how I view Bill 9.

Yes, Bill 9 will enable the creation of a new standardized code of conduct, mandatory code of conduct training for members of council and local boards, as well as an integrity commissioner inquiry process that would be consistent across Ontario.

As we’ve heard this afternoon, it all sounds great until you realize the key pillar of the legislation creates a mechanism to remove council members from office if they’re found to have committed “egregious” acts. What is the definition of “egregious”? That’s where things get a little scary in a democracy, and this should be highly concerning to all of us.

Imagine a vindictive government that doesn’t like the way things are unfolding in a municipality and decides that they’re going to get rid of some of the people around the table.

Looking at local politics in my riding as of late, the sentiment amongst my constituents is that local politics is being manipulated by a higher force.

Despite hearing from many elected officials and key stakeholders, this government refuses to make changes or amendments where the final decision to remove an elected official would be up to a judge. Municipal councillors should not vote on whether to eliminate a colleague from council, given that they’re not judges and their colleague was elected by taxpayers—only the taxpayer should decide at the ballot box in the next election. That’s how democracy works.

According to Grimsby councillor Veronica Charrois, language contained within Bill 9 is dangerously vague and open to subjective

interpretation. “Without precise

definitions, this clause could be exploited in politically divided councils,” Charrois told the Standing Committee on Heritage, Infrastructure and Cultural Policy during hearings on Bill 9. “For example, in my case, a high volume of minor or politically motivated complaints could be misconstrued as constituting harm.” That’s true.

I appreciated Charrois’s final words on the issue at committee: “Bill 9 should aim to enhance ethical conduct in municipal government, not to empower political factions to remove dissenting voices. I fully support the principles of accountability and integrity, but these must be balanced with fairness, due process and safeguards against political weaponization.”

Over the past several weeks, I’ve been contacted by several municipal mayors and councillors who are fed up with the broken system. Many have expressed that they are financially drained from attempting to defend themselves and are now paralyzed by fear as they sit around the council table waiting for the next complaint.

Bill 9 will not fix the kangaroo court in place currently, because this bill is fatally flawed.

I’d like to add that municipal elected officials also are not protected or backed by a professional regulatory body, the way a lawyer, doctor or police officer might be. You can see how this becomes a problem when an elected official might make an error simply because they did not know and were not trained appropriately.

We need to reform the broken and unethical practices of municipalities. However, Bill 9 continues to politicize the integrity process rather than depoliticize it. I cannot help but wonder if this tinkering is this government’s deliberate creation of a crisis to usher in more centralized power and decision-making. If this government really wanted to fix the problems, it would do better in listening and not just use committee processes as window dressing.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Further debate? Further debate? Further debate?

The Standing Committee on Heritage, Infrastructure and Cultural Policy reported the following bill, as amended: Bill 9,

An Act to amend the City of Toronto Act, 2006 and the Municipal Act, 2001 in relation to codes of conduct.

Mr. Babikian has moved the adoption of the report. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? I heard a no.

All those in favour of the motion will please say “aye.”

All those opposed to the motion will please say “nay.”

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

Call in the members. This is a five-minute bell.

The division bells rang from 1330 to 1335.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Members, please take your seats.

Mr. Babikian has moved the adoption of the committee’s report on Bill 9,

An Act to amend the City of Toronto Act, 2006 and the Municipal Act, 2001 in relation to codes of conduct, as amended.

All those in favour of the motion, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Ayes

Allsopp, Tyler

Babikian, Aris

Bailey, Robert

Bresee, Ric

Calandra, Paul

Cho, Raymond Sung Joon

Ciriello, Monica

Clark, Steve

Coe, Lorne

Cooper, Michelle

Crawford, Stephen

Cuzzetto, Rudy

Darouze, George

Denault, Billy

Dixon, Jess

Dowie, Andrew

Firin, Mohamed

Gallagher Murphy, Dawn

Grewal, Hardeep Singh

Gualtieri, Silvia

Hamid, Zee

Hardeman, Ernie

Harris, Mike

Holland, Kevin

Jones, Trevor

Jordan, John

Kanapathi, Logan

Kerzner, Michael S.

Khanjin, Andrea

Leardi, Anthony

Lecce, Stephen

McCarthy, Todd J.

Mulroney, Caroline

Oosterhoff, Sam

Pang, Billy

Parsa, Michael

Piccini, David

Pierre, Natalie

Pirie, George

Quinn, Nolan

Racinsky, Joseph

Rae, Matthew

Riddell, Brian

Rosenberg, Bill

Sabawy, Sheref

Sandhu, Amarjot

Sarkaria, Prabmeet Singh

Sarrazin, Stéphane

Saunderson, Brian

Scott, Laurie

Smith, David

Smith, Laura

Tangri, Nina

Thompson, Lisa M.

Tibollo, Michael A.

Triantafilopoulos, Effie J.

Vickers, Paul

Williams, Charmaine A.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): All those opposed to the motion, please rise one at a time and be recognized by the Clerk.

Nays

Armstrong, Teresa J.

Begum, Doly

Blais, Stephen

Bourgouin, Guy

Brady, Bobbi Ann

Burch, Jeff

Cerjanec, Rob

Collard, Lucille

Fairclough, Lee

Fife, Catherine

Fraser, John

Gélinas, France

Gilmour, Alexa

Hazell, Andrea

Hsu, Ted

Kernaghan, Terence

McCrimmon, Karen

McKenney, Catherine

McMahon, Mary-Margaret

Rakocevic, Tom

Sattler, Peggy

Shamji, Adil

Smyth, Stephanie

Stevens, Jennifer (Jennie)

Tabuns, Peter

Tsao, Jonathan

Vanthof, John

Watt, Tyler

West, Jamie

Wong-Tam, Kristyn

The Clerk of the Assembly (Mr. Trevor Day): The ayes are 58; the nays are 30.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): I declare the motion carried.

Report adopted.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): The bill is therefore ordered for third reading.

Standing Committee on Public Accounts

Mr. Tom Rakocevic: I beg leave to present a report on Value-for-Money Audit: Financial Services Regulatory Authority: Regulation of Private Passenger Automobile Insurance, Credit Unions and Pension Plans, 2022 Annual Report of the Office of the Auditor General of Ontario, from the Standing Committee on Public Accounts and move the adoption of its recommendations.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Mr. Rakocevic presents the committee’s report and moves the adoption of its recommendations.

Does the member wish to make a brief statement?

Mr. Tom Rakocevic: Speaker, I do.

As Chair of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, I’m pleased to table these four reports today.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank the permanent membership of the committee and substitute members who participated in the public hearings and report-writing processes.

The committee extends its appreciation to officials from all of the ministries and agencies that participated in the respective hearings.

The committee also acknowledges the assistance provided during the hearings and report-writing deliberations by the Office of the Auditor General, the Clerk of the Committee, and legislative research.

With that, I move adjournment of the debate.

The Speaker (Hon. Donna Skelly): Mr. Rakocevic has moved the adjournment of the debate. Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? Carried.

Debate adjourned.

Standing Committee on Public Accounts

Mr. Tom Rakocevic: I beg leave to present a report on Value-for-Money Audit: Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corp.: