May

14, 2008

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVI No. 27

The House met at 2:00 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Fitzgerald): Order, please!

Admit strangers.

Statements by Members

MR. SPEAKER: The following members' statements will be heard today: the

hon. the Member for the District of Humber Valley; the hon. the Member for the

District of Burgeo & LaPoile; the hon. the Member for the District of

Topsail; the hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse au Clair;

the hon. the Member for the District of Ferryland; and, the hon. the Member for

the District of Port de Grave.

The hon. the Member for the District of Humber Valley.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KELLY: Mr. Speaker, I rise in his hon. House today to recognize

Hampton Academy's graduation class of 2008. Mr. Speaker, they held their

special graduation ceremony in their school gymnasium on Friday, May 9. The

graduating class consisted of nine members: Robert Burton, Mark Langford, Amanda

Pynn, Renee Regular, Bradley Ropson, Robert Vincent, Chad Warford, Nicole

Warford and Mark Wells.

Mr. Speaker, the entire event was first-class and my sincere congratulations

to the organizers which included students, parents, teachers and the community.

The attention to detail and the overall quality of this graduation experience

was second to none. The decorations were exceptionally well done and I extended

my accolades.

Mr. Speaker, all the graduates had an active role at the event. Renee Regular

was the valedictorian. She did an exceptional job. Her parents, grandparents,

and all those present were quite impressed with the quality of her presentation.

Renee has been accepted into the School of Nursing and will begin her studies

this fall.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this hon. House to join me in

congratulating the nine members of the graduating class of Hampton Academy and

extend best wishes as they embark on their individual career paths and road to

lifelong learning.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Burgeo &

LaPoile.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate St. James Regional High

School's theatre group from Port aux Basques on their excellent performance at

the thirty-second annual provincial theatre arts festival held recently in

Carbonear.

Mr. Speaker, more than 200 students representing ten schools throughout the

Province participated in the three day event. Students rehearsed and performed

for enthusiastic crowds. They also enjoyed workshops in movement on stage by

Tonya Kearley, warming up before a show by Rory Lambert and standup comedy by

John Sheehan.

Mr. Speaker, along with learning theatre essentials by the Province's top

professional performers, students of the festival enjoyed two social events as

well. Professional comedian/actor and playwright Amy House guest adjudicated the

affair. She helped students by offering constructive criticism; albeit, the

provincial theatre arts festival is non-competitive. This offered students a

relaxing and supportive atmosphere.

Mr. Speaker, in order for school theatre troupes to qualify for provincials

they first have to compete against other schools in their region. Therefore,

these young thespians demonstrated exceptional talent and fantastic technical

skills.

Mr. Speaker, it is refreshing to see a determined theatre interest in our

high schools and I ask all hon. members to join with me in congratulating St.

James Regional High School and the nine other regional finalists on their

outstanding performances.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Topsail.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS E. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, on Friday, May 9, I had the pleasure, along with my colleague

from Conception Bay East & Bell Island, to attend the Town of Paradise

Annual Municipal Awards Banquet. This event recognizes residents who have made a

significant contribution to their community and are also recognized for their

individual achievements.

Volunteer of the Year Award went to Ms Kimberley Crocker to recognize her

involvement with figure skating, her school grad committee, Real Time Cancer,

and many other community activities.

In the category of Volunteer Group of the Year, the winner was the 30Plus

Club of Paradise. This club has contributed to the residents of Paradise,

providing medical assistance for travel, treatment expenses, assistance to

schools and other worthwhile causes.

This year's Youth of the Year was Ms Rebecca Sheppard. She has been

involved with the Guiding movement in Paradise for many years. She participates

in several sports, in addition to school and church activities.

Ms Nicole Clancey received the Coach of the Year Award. Nicole has coached

many soccer teams for the past four years, including the Under 14 Girls team

which won a provincial silver medal.

The Female Athlete of the Year was awarded to Ms Sarah Davis for the second

year in a row. She was the first female to play in the Triple A Midget League.

Her sports include hockey and soccer. Later this month she will be receiving the

Premier's Athletic Award.

Mr. Jason Picco was selected Male Athlete of the Year. His achievements were

in hockey and rugby as a member of Canada's Under 23 Rugby team.

Mr. George Sheppard was selected as Citizen of the Year. His involvement

includes education, Holy Innocents Church, Rotary Paradise Youth Centre, sports,

and fundraising for the Dr. H. Bliss Murphy Cancer Foundation.

Mr. Speaker, I ask all members of this House to join me in congratulating all

of the award winners as well as those others who were nominated for their

contribution to their community, the Town of Paradise.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Cartwright-L'Anse

au Clair.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise in this hon. House today to congratulate an outstanding volunteer in

my district, Ms Melita Paul.

Mr. Speaker, Melita Paul is a recipient of the Regional Volunteer of the Year

Award by the Canadian Diabetes Association. Her commitment and dedicated

personality have certainly afforded her this recognition.

Mr. Speaker, as we all know, volunteers are special people and they all

deserve honouring. Melita Paul is no exception. She is a native of

Charlottetown, Labrador, and she has significantly contributed to raising

diabetes awareness in that part of our Province. She started as an eager member

of the Diabetes Strategy Committee, while the provincial diabetes strategy was

just being developed in the Province.

Over time, she has recognized and co-ordinated annual diabetes walks

throughout the Coast of Labrador. Her commitment to the Canadian Diabetes

Association is admirable and many members would have met her recently at the

diabetes dinner and information session that was hosted for MHAs here in St.

John's.

Mr. Speaker, it is important to note the significance of advocating diabetes

awareness, for over two million Canadians have diabetes, and this number is

expected to increase to three million in the next decade. Educating the public

on preventable measures, the prevalence and cost of diabetes, is essential.

Mr. Speaker, Ms Paul is currently a devoted member of the Diabetes Advocacy

Committee and I am grateful that her efforts are being recognized by this

society.

I ask all my hon. colleagues to join me in congratulating her on receiving

this award, and wish her all the best in her future advocacy efforts.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Ferryland.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. HUTCHINGS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On Saturday, May 3, during National Volunteer Week, I attended the Maddox

Cove and Petty Harbour Volunteer Appreciation Night at the Community Recreation

Centre in Petty Harbour. This town has the unique distinction of being adjacent

to the largest city in our Province, yet holds firmly to all the charm and

beauty of rural Newfoundland and Labrador and that of a vibrant fishing

community nestled on the Atlantic Ocean. The spirit and goodwill of the people

indeed make it a special place.

The people of Petty Harbour-Maddox Cove give freely of their time and efforts

to serve and build their community. In 2007, the town was awarded the Tidy Towns

Green and Beautiful Award, held a Petty Harbour-Maddox Cove Come Home Year

celebration, which was a rousing success celebrated over a ten-day period, and,

as well, had volunteers serving and involved with recreation activities, town

councils, churches, youth groups, just to name a few.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to mention particularly the winners of the 2007

Volunteer Awards for Petty HarbourMaddox Cove. They were: Mr. Ronnie Doyle,

Male Volunteer of the Year for 2007; Ms Jackie Williams-Connolly, Female

Volunteer of the Year 2007; and Ms Jordan Chafe, Youth Volunteer of the Year

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank all the volunteers of the Town of Petty

HarbourMaddox Cove for an outstanding 2007 and no doubt what will be an even

better 2008.

I ask all hon. members to join me in congratulating all the volunteers for

the efforts and wish them well in the future.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, today, May 14, is Municipal Awareness Day, and I

would like to take this opportunity to recognize the work of the local

municipalities in my district.

I encourage all residents to say thank you to their councillors and I,

personally, would like to thank the municipalities in my district, namely Upper

Island Cove, Bishop's Cove, Spaniard's Bay, North River, Bay Roberts, Clarke's

Beach, and the Local Service District of Makinsons for a job well done.

Mr. Speaker, we often take for granted the services that are provided by our

local governments, such as services providing communities with clean water,

sewerage disposal, streets and recreational services, to name a few.

On this special day that has been set aside for Municipal Awareness Day, I

ask my hon. colleagues to join with me in thanking our councillors for a job

well done in making each place a better place to live for all residents here in

Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Statements by Ministers.

Statements by Ministers

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Fisheries and Aquaculture.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to inform hon. colleagues and the

people of Newfoundland and Labrador that the Fisheries Technology and New

Opportunities Program is achieving great success throughout the Province.

To date, more than $600,000 has been approved under the program to assist

with the development and implementation of numerous innovative initiatives in

all corners of Newfoundland and Labrador. About a dozen proponents are currently

benefiting from this initiative. These include companies, independent inshore

harvesters, and organizations such as Memorial University and the Canadian

Centre for Fisheries Innovation, commonly known as CCFI.

Mr. Speaker, funding for projects relating to all sectors of the seafood

industry, including harvesting, processing and marketing, have been approved. It

is indeed clear that representatives of all these sectors are taking advantage

of the program for the benefit of the Newfoundland and Labrador fishing

industry.

I am also pleased to note that this program is available to the very

important and growing service sector of the industry. Our industry now boasts an

extensive array of marine electronic firms, fabricators, boat builders, marine

architects, gear manufacturers, packaging firms and transportation specialists.

The entrepreneurial drive of those involved in these aspects of the industry has

created a very significant fisheries manufacturing and service sector that is

enjoying both domestic and international success.

The Fisheries Technology and New Opportunities Program is one of the many

provincial initiatives identified in our three-year $15 million Fishing Industry

Renewal Strategy. Other aspects include enhanced marketing efforts, occupational

health and safety initiatives, the implementation of fish auctions, an estimated

$100 million loan guarantee program and approximately $25 million to fund the

Province's share of the capital games exemptions for fish harvesters. In

total, Mr. Speaker, the Province's undertaking for the complete strategy is

about $140 million.

The provincial government has allocated $6 million over three years to fund

the program, which includes $2 million in Budget 2008.

The program is indicative of our commitment to ensure that fishing industry

participants in Newfoundland and Labrador have access to capital to assist with

the development of new and innovative technology for the purposes of

diversifying and enhancing their operations.

I encourage all industry participants to continue to take advantage of the

Fisheries Technology and New Opportunities Program and wish those who have

participated to date all the best in their new endeavours.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for an advance copy of his statement today.

I do not think there is any parliamentarian in this Province who would not

applaud announcements of investments of new technology and new opportunities

into any industry throughout Newfoundland and Labrador, and more particularly

into the fishing industry. This program will allow harvesters and processors and

manufacturers and developers out there in the fishing industry throughout

Newfoundland and Labrador to cost share with the government on innovative and

new technologies up to what I think is $100,000 per proposal. That is what is

being considered.

We have seen examples, Mr. Speaker, of where technology has enhanced this

industry in our Province, an industry that has become very globally competitive

for us and one where we have had to enhance technologies right from our fishing

vessels to our fish plants in order to improve the quality of product that we

are exporting into the various markets around the world.

Mr. Speaker, we would certainly support this and we would encourage those

people out there in the industry to take up the program and to look for

opportunities under this program, because we have seen programs inside of

government, like those in the Department of Business, that for two years now

have had running budgets of investment dollars for businesses that have never

gotten spent. I think that this is an industry, Mr. Speaker, where-

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: - money can be spent and where people want to spend it in terms

of being able to invest and upgrade the quality of their businesses and in turn

invest in the quality of the product that is leaving this Province.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement.

I too am quite pleased to see the efforts that are happening under the

strategy program and I applaud them. I would encourage the minister though and

the government to look at the issue of our collapsing stocks, stocks that have

collapsed or are threatened. It would be really good if we were to put that into

the renewal strategy as well.

The issue of marine protected areas is another issue that I think would be

good. I think it has been proven that marine protected areas can help stocks

rebuild which would be really good and they can also play a role in tourism.

I would encourage the minister to look at both of those areas as well.

Thank you, very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further Statements by Ministers.

The hon. the Minister of Justice and Attorney General.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. KENNEDY: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to recognize May 15, 2008 as International Peace Officers'

Memorial Day. It is important that residents of Newfoundland and Labrador are

aware of the important role that peace officers play in our communities. They

work closely with members of the community to make our residents feel safe. I

was pleased to speak on behalf of the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador

during the Peace Officers' Memorial Day Service, held earlier today at the

Seventh Day Adventist Church in St. John's. This memorial service is held each

year in honour of police and peace officers killed in the line of duty.

I would like to bring special attention to the Police and Peace Officers'

Memorial which is located on the grounds of Confederation Building, just outside

these Chambers. We are proud to have such a memorial that pays tribute to the

seventeen uniformed officers who have paid the ultimate price in service to

Newfoundland and Labrador. The monument serves as an important reminder of the

often dangerous work that peace officers carry out each and every day.

As we all know, the choice to dedicate one's life as a peace officer is a

selfless one. It often carries risk, but also the potential for tremendous

reward. This reward, service to others and the protection of our communities, is

what drives these officers to continually perform at such high standards.

I would also like to note, Mr. Speaker, that the week of May 11-17 is

National Police Week. Since 1970 Police Week has been dedicated to increasing

community awareness and recognition of policing services while strengthening

ties between police and the community. Police Week reminds us that police and

community co-operation is the key to safer home and communities.

Through Budget 2008, our government will provide an additional $4.5 million

to ensure that police have adequate resources and are able to make residents and

families in our Province feel safe.

Mr. Speaker, I am truly grateful to acknowledge in this House today the

dedicated service, superior efforts and the sacrifice that our police and peace

officers have given, and continue to give, to the residents of Newfoundland and

Labrador.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and I thank the minister of an

advance copy of his statement today.

We, as well, as the Opposition members, would like to recognize and pay

tribute to all those who have made the ultimate sacrifice. We certainly commend

them and the jobs that those who currently work in those endeavours provide to

us as a civilized society. We certainly all sleep better, and feel more safe and

secure in our homes and in our communities, as a result of the actions of police

officers and peace officers.

As well, community safety, of course, is grounded. You can have as good a

citizen as you like, but you certainly need to have police forces that make sure

we are all safe and secure. There are a lot of dedicated and courageous men and

women involved in our policing agencies.

It is a tough job, it is a very stressful job, and at times a very dangerous

job, so it is nice to pay tribute to those who have certainly felt the full

effects of that and made the ultimate sacrifice.

I must say, as well, I am very pleased to see that in the past few years

government, as a result of being in better financial circumstances, have made a

substantial contribution to our police forces in the Province, both the RCMP and

the RNC, in terms of better training, better wages and better working

circumstances.

Again we, as well, would like to commend all those who have paid the ultimate

price, and encourage and commend all of those who are currently involved in

policing services as well.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I, too, thank the minister for his advance copy and I am very pleased to be

able to stand as well with the minister and the Official Opposition in

recognizing those who have given their lives in service to the community.

I am sorry I could not attend the service this morning, but we truly

appreciate what our women and men in uniformed service do for us.

I was glad to see the statement referring to the importance of

police-community ties. One of the things that strengthens police-community ties

is the presence of foot patrols. Being a representative for a district that has

a big downtown area included in my district, I would really encourage the

minister to continue looking at the possibility of foot controls in the downtown

area. It not only makes things safer; it makes for a better atmosphere as well,

because the police and the community become more connected with one another

through foot controls, as does the presence of the recent addition, Fraize, and

his rider, Constable Jason Coombs. This is another thing that adds to a good

relationship between police and the community.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.

The hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. DENINE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This may sound familiar to some people.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to take the opportunity to inform my colleagues

that this past week has been an active time for municipalities in the Province

of Newfoundland and Labrador. On May 8, 9 and 10, Municipalities Newfoundland

and Labrador held its Annual Municipal Symposium in Gander. The focus of this

year's symposium was waste management, municipal sustainability, the gas tax

agreement, municipal planning and the potential for regional governance.

I had the opportunity to speak at the dinner on Friday evening, at which time

members of the MNL again committed their support of the provincial government

and the valuable work we are completing. Their group remains committed to

advancing the development of our communities. Their aim is to provide safe and

nurturing environments through sound infrastructure and efficient services for

the people of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador; so too is this

government's.

Mr. Speaker, today is Municipal Awareness Day. All too often it sounds

familiar the work done by mayors, councillors and municipal administrators

in this Province goes unnoticed. The dedicated people go about their daily

business - so familiar quietly and efficiently. They ensure that residents

of the Province have clean drinking water, that their local roads are plowed and

maintained as efficient and effective as possible, that needed infrastructure is

developed, and that their communities are planned and well managed.

Mr. Speaker, the focus of today is not only for awareness. This is a genuine

opportunity to educate the public on the role of municipal governments in

Newfoundland and Labrador and the services they deliver. It is an opportunity to

involve residents in activities which increase community pride and

understanding. It aids in the recognition of the many volunteers in communities

that help them grow.

Municipal Awareness Day is a joint project of Municipalities Newfoundland and

Labrador, the Newfoundland and Labrador Association of Municipal Administrators,

the Department of Municipal Affairs, and the many municipalities all across this

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

Today, Mr. Speaker, on behalf of our government and the entire House of

Assembly, I commend the dedicated individuals who dedicate their time each day

for the betterment of the communities in our Province. I congratulate

Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador on another successful symposium. I

remind everyone that without our mayors, councillors, municipal administrators

and many volunteers, our communities would not be the wonderful places they call

home.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I could not have said it better myself.

On a serious note, I want to congratulate all of the municipalities that took

part in the Annual Municipal Symposium in Gander over the weekend, and to know

that they are still dedicating their time to our communities and looking after

some serious issues that we take

part in.

Mr. Speaker, with regard to Municipal Awareness Day, I can assure the

minister there was no ill intent to try to scuttle his Ministerial Statement. My

Member's Statement went in at 11:00 this morning and I got his at 1:00 this

afternoon.

I want to join the minister and government in congratulating all those

administrators, mayors and councillors throughout this Province of ours on the

wonderful job they do to make each and every community a better place to live.

Because I upstaged the minister, I want to say this sincerely: I want to

congratulate the minister because he deals

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. BUTLER: Mr. Speaker, he is a minister who deals one-on-one with the

communities, on a first come basis. I know that. I saw it through Municipalities

Newfoundland and Labrador this year. He is a minister who deals with each and

every council. Because I did that, I want to say congratulations to you, sir, as

well as all the municipalities in Newfoundland and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Signal Hill-Quidi

Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister too for the advance copy of his statement.

This must be a day for congratulations to the minister. I will follow-up from

my colleague. I was pleased to see, in the Estimates meeting the other evening,

the openness of the minister to say that he was waiting on the various regions

before final decisions are being made with regard to waste management and Robin

Hood Bay. I think that is a sign of the spirit that will succeed because it

means you are working, as my colleague said, with the municipalities.

I also want to recognize those people who work for their municipalities, who

work a pretty thankless job really in a lot of ways. There are very few who

actually get remuneration for the work that they do, yet their dedication to the

communities is intense.

I am happy to be able to stand here today to recognize them and to say thank

you to them for all the work they do, both for their communities as well as for

the Province.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: Further statements by ministers.

Oral Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

My questions today are for the Minister of Education.

Mr. Speaker, over the past several weeks we have asked questions in the House

of Assembly regarding fire safety inspections in schools. The current process

involves a checklist that custodial staff complete on a weekly or daily basis.

Mr. Speaker, despite the minister's statements in the House that there are no

concerns around this issue, there was a fire yesterday in a classroom at

Memorial Academy in Botwood.

I ask the minister again today: Do you feel that this checklist process that

is in place is sufficient in identifying potential fire and life safety issues

in our schools?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, fire safety in our schools is very important and

the checklist is only one part of our way of checking fire safety in schools.

The particular school that had a fire yesterday is a school that had the local

fire department do an inspection in October of 2007. It also had an independent

company in checking the extinguishers and the alarm systems in both December of

2007 and in March of this year. The daily checklist is also done at that school.

This particular school had an unfortunate incident where a piece of bristol

board was laid against the heater and was not removed and therefore caught fire.

Mr. Speaker, this particular school is inspected daily. It has had the fire

department in this school year and it has had an independent company in as well

on two occasions.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister knows that there are also other similar situations that can

cause fires in schools and that are going unnoticed and certainly not contained

within the checklist process that she has in place now.

One of the significant things that the fire inspector recognized and

recommended on when he inspected hospitals in this Province was that the

officials in the hospitals that were responsible were not trained in fire code

standards and what to look for. I suspect the same exists in the schools.

I ask the minister today, if she would commit to ensuring that there is

proper training in fire codes and life safety issues provided for these

custodians?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, previous to today and as a result of issues that

we have been addressing here in the House of Assembly, I have already requested

that the school boards ensure that all staff are aware of the fire safety

regulations and the rules pertinent to their particular school. That would

include all staff not just teachers.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

In light of this particular situation - and I think it is a wake up call for

you, minister - in addition, will you look at putting in place a proper

inspection process that is required and follows protocols within the schools in

this Province on an annual basis?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, this was a very unfortunate incident in Botwood

and I certainly do not want to be pointing fingers at anyone, whether it is a

student or a teacher, but fire safety at some level becomes everyone's

concern. When a person leaves a room at the end of the day, at the end of

classes, you know there is some common sense that needs to be applied. If there

are things left on the heater, particularly paper or other things, they need to

be removed. In fairness to the staff who work at the schools and the people who

are in our schools, we do not have these fires every single day. This was an

unfortunate accident where somebody had left something on the heater and it was

not removed at the end of the day.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to reiterate here again today that we do have

processes in place, not just that daily checklist. We do have independent

companies that go in and inspect the equipment. Mr. Speaker, the Fire

Commissioner's Office and the fire departments have a right to inspect these

buildings. We will never prevent the fire departments or the Fire Commissioner's

Office from going in to the schools, and I have said that here in the House of

Assembly before as well.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly agree with the minister, that fire safety is all of our

responsibility, including yours, minister, when it comes to these schools.

Mr. Speaker, the minister knows that not all regions of this Province have

active fire commissions or fire brigades to do those inspections on a regular

basis.

I ask her again: Will you put in place, in this Province, a proper process

with protocols to ensure inspections are done in all the schools in Newfoundland

and Labrador?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I acknowledge that there may not be a volunteer

fire department or a fire department in every community, but I will acknowledge

that we do have the safety checklist done on a daily basis. All schools also

have the annual inspections by an independent company. Further to that, if the

school board or the principal has any concerns outside that process they also

have managers of operations in each school board and they also have the right to

request that the Fire Commissioner's Office come in, which we will never stop.

Mr. Speaker, there is a process and a procedure out there in place in our

schools.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

On March 11, over two months ago, I asked the minister to table information

related to the inspection reports in our Province's schools. She said she

would collect the information and do so. You have had two months, minister, when

can we expect to see those reports?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I did indicate that I would table that

information. I have requested that information. I do not have the full

information in yet. As soon as it is in, it will be tabled in the House.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

AN HON. MEMBER: Two months?

MS JONES: Two months, Minister. Hopefully it will be soon, before the

House closes down.

Mr. Speaker, my next question is also for the Minister of Education, and it

is regarding an issue I raised in the House of Assembly yesterday, a serious

matter of possible criminal misappropriation of funds from this Province under

the International Student Education Program, and why she did not bring this

issue to the attention of the police.

Mr. Speaker, in March of 2007, according to the information she gave

yesterday, which was ten months before the minister herself turned any

information over to the police, discussions were taking place between the

Eastern School District and officials in the Department of Education.

Can you tell me today, Minister, who those officials were within your

department, and who were the officials in the Eastern School District?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, as I indicated yesterday, in March 2007 I was made

aware that the Eastern School Board was dealing with an issue of a possible

misappropriation of funds. I was also advised at that time, they had sought

legal advice, they were following the collective agreement, and they were

referring the matter to their elected trustees.

Mr. Speaker, the elected trustees, under the Schools Act, have the authority

to deal with the operations of the school board\, and HR functions within the

board. I was assured, at that time, that the appropriate process and legal

counsel was being followed. I reported it to the police later, Mr. Speaker, not

based on the information that I received in March, but information that I

received on August 30, 2007.

Mr. Speaker, when I had gotten information above and beyond what I had in

March, I certainly made sure that it was referred to the RNC at that time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I ask the minister again, because she did not answer, who were the officials

in your department and who were the officials in the Eastern District? Can you

name them, please?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that Mr. Eric Snow from the

Eastern School District, was in consultation with Mr. Rick Hayward, the

assistant deputy minister. It was through Mr. Rick Hayward, the assistant deputy

minister, that I learned of the issue at the Eastern School Board District.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, the Eastern School Board became aware of the

possible criminal activity which involved fraud and the misappropriation of

funds in November of 2006, almost one year before the minister provided any

information to the police in this Province.

Can you tell me, Minister, in the House today: What actions were taken at

that time by the Eastern School District to recover the money that was involved

and to investigate the full extent of this problem?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that in the fall of 2006

the Eastern school board sought legal counsel has to how to move forward with

this issue and at that time they also requested a forensic audit to deal with

the issue. It took a number of months for them to deal with the issue and it was

in March 2007 that I was updated on the information. Although, I was not told

the information because the decision rested with me, I was updated that the

school board was dealing with this issue, and that was certainly well within

their responsibility to do so.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, yesterday in the House of Assembly the minister

told us that the Eastern School District had sought legal advice.

Can I ask you minister who they obtained the legal advice from, and also if

you can provide a copy of that legal advice, if it was provided to you?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I do not know if I am able to table the legal

opinion because I know there is an active police investigation, but I will

certainly look into the matter.

I also understand that Stewart McKelvey was the law office that provided the

legal opinion.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I would assume that the minister had an opportunity to review that legal

opinion.

I ask her: What was the opinion that was given? Can you tell me the contents

of it?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I think, as I had just indicated, that this is a

matter that continues to be under police investigation. There was a legal

opinion.

If I am at liberty, and I am not breaking any laws under information, under

privacy or under any legal restrictions or police investigation, I will check

and see if these reports, these legal opinions, are something that we can put

out publicly, that will not be breaking any particular laws. I absolutely have

no problem with tabling those opinions in this House.

Thank you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister also said there was a forensic audit done. Was that audit done

in-house or externally? If it was done externally, who did that particular

audit?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of the name of the firm or the

individual who did the forensic audit, but it was done by an external contractor

as opposed to in-house at the board office.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, when this audit and the legal advice was given to

the school board, did you ask for that, Minister, back in the spring when your

department became aware of the issue?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I did not ask for the information at that time,

because at that time I was advised that there was a matter that the school board

had been dealing with. They had sought legal council, they were dealing with it

according to the collective agreement and it was being referred to the board of

trustees for a decision.

Mr. Speaker, under the Act, that is if I had any further information, I would

have advised anyone from the board who spoke to me or was looking for my

opinion, I would have advised them they had to work within the collective

agreement, they should seek legal opinion and they would have to refer the

matter to their trustees.

As I understood it, that would be the process that I would expect them to

follow, that is the process that would have been their responsibility and that

is exactly what they did.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, Hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, at that time, the director of education with the

Eastern School District, would be the individual who is the current member for

Grand Bank today.

I ask you minister: At that particular time, were there any discussions

between yourself and the director of the Eastern School District?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, I can say unequivocally, while the Member for

Grand Bank was the director or CEO of the Eastern school board, at no point in

time did I ever, as the minister, have any verbal conversations, any e-mails, or

any letters with that person regarding this matter.

Thank you.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, my next question for the minister has to do with

the fact that she was contacted, she received information, in fact, she received

information in person from the student recruiter and she knew firsthand that

there was strong evidence of criminal activity.

I have to ask minister

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

MS JONES: Why did you, yourself, acting in your capacity, not go directly

to the police on this particular matter?

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, when I received the information on August 30,

2007, and subsequently met with Ms Lisa O'Neill on September 6, 2007, at all

times I considered this information absolutely serious; and, just based on my

review of the documents on August 30, I asked for a number of things to happen.

I asked for an official program review, and the Request for Proposals went

out after that, and an independent assessment is being done. I also asked for a

financial assessment of NISEP, that program. Following that, we wrote the school

board and asked for that information. I also, at that time, asked for a legal

opinion as to whether or not the school board should be involved in this type of

business.

In addition to that, I also advised that the matter had to be referred to the

Director of Child Protection, which I personally did myself at that time, and I

asked the officials to refer it to the police.

They referred it to the Department of Justice, and at that time we got an

opinion back that the board had dealt with it appropriately and in their legal

requirements.

I took that one step further -

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

I ask the hon. minister to conclude her answer.

MS BURKE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

This is extremely important because, after that, I specifically met with an

official in the Department of Justice and said I was not comfortable until I

knew that we, as government, and me as the Minister of Education, made sure that

was turned over to the police.

So, it was not just turning it over to the police; I asked on a number of

fronts to make sure that program was assessed and analyzed.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

All of those actions do not negate the fact, Minister, that you did not

report a criminal activity ongoing under the auspices of a board contained as

part of your department, to the police.

Let me ask you this question, Minister. You consulted, you said, with the

Department of Justice. What was the advice that you were given by the Department

of Justice?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, let me be perfectly clear. On August 31, I asked

my officials to make sure the matter was turned over to the police. They

consulted with the Department of Justice; however, at that time, the question

and the legal opinion came back to us that the board had acted appropriately and

legally in their actions.

I was not satisfied that that was the question that I wanted to go over to

the Department of Justice or the action that I thought was necessary.

I followed up. I met with an official in the Department of Justice, and I

specifically requested that this matter be turned over to the RNC and they also

be notified that any information that we have in our possession would be made

available to the police.

I absolutely followed up to make sure that would happen.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The minister knows she followed up only after the recruiter have flown

halfway around the world to St. John's to report this incident to the police

in Newfoundland and Labrador.

I cannot believe that the Department of Justice would have advised you not to

go to the police on this issue.

Mr. Speaker, my next question is for the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, can the Minister of Government Services confirm

with me that he met with the same recruiter as well, and was provided with

evidence of possible criminal wrongdoing but did not take that information to

the police on any occasion?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, if the hon. member is trying to suggest that a

minister of this government had the information and did not act on it, or did

not take it seriously, she is absolutely wrong.

This matter went to the Minister of Business at the time because it was felt

it may be a business matter. Upon reviewing the information and the documents,

the minister felt that it was a matter for the Department of Education.

The information, in totality, was handed over to me on August 30, and it was

at that time and that date that I reviewed the documents. I set up a meeting

with the person who provided the documents and I asked for certain information -

as I had indicated in the House today - to make sure that was provided.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, my question is for the Minister of Government Services.

Can he confirm for me that the matter was referred to him, when he was the

Minister of Business, by the Premier's office? Can he also tell me who in the

Premier's office referred that matter to you and brought it to your attention?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS BURKE: Mr. Speaker, it is not uncommon when somebody makes a referral

to government that either they start with the Premier's office or they start

with a department that may not necessarily be the appropriate department to take

action.

Mr. Speaker, this was a matter that was referred to the Premier's office.

Because it involved a business agent, and related to the business of this

particular individual and an international business, it was referred to the

Department of Business. The Department of Business followed up, as they would

with this information, however, felt that the most appropriate department to

deal with this was the Department of Education, and it came over to the

Department of Education.

Mr. Speaker, at no time was this information ever reviewed, or Lisa O'Neill

interviewed and information taken and not passed on or put to the person who

they felt was most appropriate to take action in this matter.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today, the skilled trade workers with Eastern Health demonstrated at the

front of Confederation Building. These tradespeople are the carpenters,

electricians, plumbers and others, all certified Red Seal workers who keep the

buildings and equipment they contain operating when things go wrong.

The starting salary for the skilled trades at Eastern Health is $19.29 while

their counterparts doing the same jobs at MUN is $25.71. The workers were

protesting this basic injustice and are seeking parity with their colleagues at

Memorial University.

I ask the minister: What is government going to do to alleviate this

injustice?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, in my capacity as President of the Treasury Board I have had the

opportunity to meet with the skilled trade workers who have the Red Seal

certification, both here and in Corner Brook. I have met with two different

groups here and in Corner Brook. We discussed their issues. We discussed their

desire for parity with other workers who do similar work, both in the private

sector and with the Hydro and at Memorial.

We are presently in negotiations and I am optimistic that, as we have done

with CUPE, at the end of the day we will negotiate a collective agreement that

is fair and that is reasonable and that is in the long-term interests of the

people of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank the minister for his answer.

Mr. Speaker, these tradespeople are in very high demand. Any of them can walk

out the door at Eastern Health and get double the pay here in the public sector,

or they can travel to Alberta and get twice or even higher wages. Over the next

seven years, Mr. Speaker, I have been advised that 92 per cent of them will be

retiring and Eastern Health has no hopes of fully replacing them at the current

wage levels.

Government is proud, and rightly so, of the millions of dollars that they

have put into the new infrastructure and new hospitals, Mr. Speaker.

I ask the minister: Who does government expect to maintain those wonderful

buildings if this wage gap is not corrected?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, we are presently in negotiations and I

think the appropriate answer is that we look forward to the completion of those

negotiations, and hopefully we will have a collective agreement that is fair and

reasonable to all parties concerned.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for the District of Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: My final question, Mr. Speaker.

We have been told that every Monday morning a power test is conducted at the

Health Sciences Centre and MUN joint power plant. At 7:00 a.m. an electrician

from Memorial University and an electrician from Eastern Health, together, as a

team, test the power system. These two people hold the same classifications,

have the same certification, have the same training and have the same education;

however, one individual makes $6.43 more than his counterpart. This is more than

unfair, Mr. Speaker. This is unsustainable for the health system as a whole.

I ask the minister: Is government going to take steps to rectify this

inequality and ensure that our health system's infrastructure continues to be

maintained at an acceptable level by highly qualified workers?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury

Board.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. T. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, as I said in the answer to the last

question, and as I said in the answer to the question before that, we are at the

table, we are negotiating, and these questions are part of collective bargaining

and should properly be dealt with there. I believe that the hon. Member has

heard from very respected leaders in the labour movement who have suggested that

these questions should be dealt with at the collective bargaining table.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Just a clarification issue, and I am not certain if it should be the Minister

of Finance or the Minister of Government Services. It involves the insurance

tax, 15 per cent, that was cut by government in the recent Budget. We have had

numerous inquiries from those persons who would have renewed say in November of

2007, paid their 15 per cent, which was based upon the policy existing for a

full year, but of course everything was retroactive to January 1. Those persons

are wondering, will they get back, on a prorated basis, the 15 per cent that

they paid from say, January to October of this year. Because that tax,

legitimately, the insurance companies have that in their pockets, when everybody

else is getting a rebate, and they want to know can they get the refund on that.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. O'BRIEN: Mr. Speaker, the 15 per cent tax on insurance and the

removal of that is based on the calendar year, because most families base their

expenses on the calendar year. So to capture everybody once in that particular

year, it was removed from January 1 onward, and that is why it was retroactive.

Anybody paying their insurance previous to January 1, 2008, would, in turn, if

they have a payment plan as I understand it, the insurance companies will

make an adjustment in regards to that tax. If they pay by cheque or they pay by

bank withdrawal, that tax will not be applied for future payments.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, last year this House passed amendments to the Mental Health Act.

The new legislation requires Assertive Community Treatment teams to follow up

and support seriously mentally-ill residents after hospitalization. St. John's

now has a team, but the other regions do not. Given what is still happening with

seriously mentally-ill people, as was experienced in Piccadilly, the other

regional health authorities really need to get these teams sooner rather than

later.

Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister of Health and Community Services: When will

all the regions have the assertive community treatment teams in place?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I will need to clarify with the other authorities exactly where they are in

their process and report back to the House, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Minister, just to clarify then: what you would report back I hope would

be the steps they are taking and when they hope to have them in place? Thank you

very much.

You may have to get information on the next one too. They are all on the same

thing.

The Mental Health Act, Mr. Speaker, now requires community supports for

seriously mentally-ill people when they are released from hospital. We

understand that in the Western Region there are not enough people to do the

assessments of individuals detained under the Act, to assess whether they can be

released to the community and that they will take their medication and not be a

risk to the community or to themselves.

Mr. Minister, I am wondering: When patients are released are all hospitals

ensuring that the community supports required under the Act are actually in

place?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Mr. Speaker, the short answer to the question is yes.

Whether there might have been an individual circumstance where there might have

been some delay I am not certain of that, but as a matter of course each of the

authorities would have the responsibility to ensure that that is in place.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I follow-up then, Mr. Minister, and ask: Do you know if there have been

training sessions done in all of the facilities that deal with patients with

mental health illnesses, if all of them have been trained with regard to making

sure that that part of the Act is followed?

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: I appreciate the line of questions from the member opposite.

They are important questions and I think it is important that she know the

answers. I just want to make sure that there is an understanding within the

House that, like the line of questions we had earlier about our school

authorities - as a government we have established health authorities and we have

mandated them the responsibility to deliver programs and services throughout

Newfoundland and Labrador. At an operational level, either officials in my

department or myself as the minister would not necessarily be involved in

orientation, training programs for staff. That would be a responsibility of the

authorities, and as we give them that authority and we give them the funding to

provide those services and programs, the assumption we are making is that they

are following through with that. On an exception basis we may need some time to

intervene and to verify something or check something out, as I will do here

today. Ordinarily the line of questioning being posed by the member opposite is

not something a minister would know on a day-to-day basis. Very clearly, the

operational responsibility is of the authorities and one that, as a minister, we

would have to get that kind of insight directly from an authority on any given

day.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please. The time allotted for questions and answers

has expired.

Presenting reports by standing and select committees.

MR. PARSONS: A point of order, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Opposition House Leader to a point of order.

MR. PARSONS: Mr. Speaker, again it concerns the decorum. I raise this

point and we have raised it earlier in earlier sittings. I do not normally like

to rise on this point of order. I understand, and certainly in Question Period,

that tempers sometimes flare and people get boisterous and it is an emotional

occasion. I understand that and appreciate that. In fact, that is part of the

exercise here and we have no difficulty with that.

We pointed out, Mr. Speaker, when the seating arrangements were first noted

in the House, that it might in future cause some difficulty because nine of the

government members sit immediately opposite us here. Today was another example,

and the Leader of the Opposition, who was up extensively in Question Period

today, just brought it to my attention again. I noticed it and she just

confirmed to me, that she is concerned because throughout the questioning today

there was constant heckling and chuckling from the left of her, these nine

members. Mr. Speaker -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

Order, please!

I ask the hon. the Opposition House Leader to make his point of order.

MR. PARSONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I think my point is proven by exactly the reaction we just got

from government. We just appeal to the Chair that maybe because it is so

physically close by the members of the government who sit over here, maybe if

they could restrain themselves a bit during Question Period, at least we could

get a proper question and flow going.

MR. SPEAKER: Order, please!

The hon. the Government House Leader.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Government House Leader to that point of order.

MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speaker, I will briefly grace that alleged point of

order with a brief response. First of all, there is no Point of Order, and

secondly, Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member in his presentation with the

reaction from this side tried to point that out as proof of what he was saying.

Well, it was, because the proof of what he was saying is, as I have observed

pretty much every day in Question Period since this House opened in March, if

there is one corner of this Legislature that is like a mouse it is over there.

Hardly, Mr. Speaker, do you hear a sound or a moan or a groan or a twittle or

anything out of them. They are almost, Mr. Speaker, like we have got to go over

and wake them up. I rest my case.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

To the point of order, decorum is always a very important issue in the House

of Assembly. I have, many times, called on members for their co-operation when

members are asking questions and when ministers are answering questions, but the

Chair has to admit that he has not heard anything disruptive from members

sitting to my immediate right in this House.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Orders of the Day

Private Members' Day

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

It being 3:00 o'clock in the afternoon, the Chair calls on the hon. the

Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi to present her resolution.

MS MICHAEL: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

I am very pleased to rise and present the motion which is on the Order Paper

for today, dealing with the need for an external review of our health care

system.

The import of the resolution is that we should have an external review of our

health care system and that this Assembly call upon the Government of

Newfoundland and Labrador to conduct an independent external review of the

integrated health regions.

What I want to do first when I speak today, Mr. Speaker, is give my rationale

for calling for this external review.

We have had a number of regionalizations go on with regard to our health care

system over the years where probably the two most significant ones were, first

of all, the one that took place in 1998 when quite a number of boards, I think

around fifty-two, were changed into fourteen Health and Community Services

Boards. That was when we had the move to Health and Community Services coming

together. Then, in September 2004 the current government, in its configuration

at that time, after less than a year in office, announced that they were going

to do another regionalization, and this time the fourteen boards would come down

to four boards. What we now have, as a result of that regionalization, which was

put in place in January 2005, is the current system of four regional health

boards, or four Regional Health Authorities.

My concern is that, both in 1998 and especially in 2004-2005, these moves

were made without an analysis of our system at that moment. There was not an

evaluation. There was not time taken to look at, in an in-depth way, how our

systems were working. The decision was made based mainly on a restructuring that

was required or looked for to meet fiscal needs, or to take

part in decisions

that were based on money matters, not based on the needs of the people, not

based on the needs of the health care system.

I would like to refer to the press release that was put out on September 10,

2004, by the Minister of Health and Community Services at that time, when the

minister announced that this regionalization was going to take place. What the

minister said at that time was, "Fewer regions mean less administration and

more opportunity for collaboration. Integrated boards will have the ability to

focus on the full continuum of care, from community care to acute and long-term

care resulting in better service for clients."

That is a wonderful goal, and I am really happy that was in the press

release, but then it goes on to say, "The new governance model implements

government's Blue Book and provincial Budget commitment to avoid unnecessary

costs and create more efficient, smaller administrative structures."

My concern, Mr. Speaker, is that in that press release and in the

backgrounder that went with that press release there was nothing to show what

the unnecessary costs were, there was nothing to show how and why the smaller

administrative structures were going to work, and there was no explanation as to

how you were going to get smaller administrative units when you were bringing

all the boards, the fourteen boards, down to four regional authorities and you

were actually going to have facilities that were going to be either closed or

brought together, integrated, throughout our Province.

So, without giving any explanation of how money was going to be saved, and

explanations of how we were going to get smaller administrative structures

without any rationale that was based on a plan, on a review of our system,

government made this decision and began, throughout the fall of 2004, to put its

plan in place so that by January 2005 it was in place.

I have heard personally from many people who were involved in that process,

and we have all heard, if we listened, the former CEO of the Eastern Authority

talk about what it was like when that change took place. What we hear is that

there was no big plan; that those regional authorities were given instructions

of what to do. They were even told, in some cases, according to the CEO, that it

would be good to have cuts in personnel here, cuts in personnel there, without

rationale. What they had to do was to come up with those cuts.

It is my sense, in everything that I have observed around this, and people I

have talked to and things that I have been told, that we did not have a

rationale for this except to save money. No review was done of the system that

they were coming out of, and we did not have a transition team put in place to

co-ordinate how this might happen.

Now, I would like to point out that in that same press release of 2004 the

backgrounders says: Other Canadian jurisdictions have recently moved to

regionalized governance structures. In 2001 British Columbia moved from

fifty-two to five, in Saskatchewan it went from thirty-two to twelve, Alberta

went from seventeen to nine, and Manitoba created eleven regional authorities in

What the backgrounder does not say is - I know two provinces in particular

that, when British Columbia and Manitoba moved into the new format, when they

restructured, when they regionalized, they had teams in place that were called

transition teams, and those transition teams had the responsibility to

co-ordinate how the regionalization was going to happen.

I have had the honour and the pleasure to speak with two individuals who have

worked here with Eastern Health who had worked in B.C. and Manitoba and who had

been part, actual members, of the transition teams in those two provinces. Now,

the two people I spoke to here, one is retired and one resigned from Eastern

Health but they both had exactly the same experience: that the new

regionalization restructuring that happened here in this Province did not get

off to a good start, because very little resources were put into helping the

four regional boards coordinate what was going to happen, and coordinate not

just what would happen within one of the regional authorities but how the four

regional authorities would also have to work together. We have two people who

served on two transition teams in two other provinces who have regionalized

successfully telling me that that was their experience.

I want to look at Nova Scotia, because Nova Scotia was not part of the big

move of regionalization during that period, in the early 2000s that is referred

to in the press release, but Nova Scotia in 2006 decided that they wanted to

look at their health care system and see how efficient it was. They began what

they called an efficiency study in 2006 and they hired an outside consulting

firm, outside consultants, to help them assess their efficiency. Now, they were

pretty open to whatever it was this firm was going to find, and what resulted

was that the efficiency analysis grew into a comprehensive review of the

provincial health system.

What they wanted: they did want to look at where they were going as the

health care system in Nova Scotia. They wanted to restructure, they wanted to

transform - and that is what the title of their review is: Transforming the

health care system for Nova Scotia. They did the efficiency assessment and then

the review to help them see how they could transform the system.

What happened here in Newfoundland and Labrador, we did not have a vision for

where the restructuring would go. We did not seem to have a clue about how the

restructuring was going to happen yet we said we would put it in place and then

we did not put money into helping a transition happen. It is no wonder to me

that people are coming to me and talking about the problems inside of Eastern

Health. The problems that they are talking about are massive; they are

throughout the whole system. Not just Eastern Health, I am talking about the

whole health care system, Eastern Health and the whole health care system. Each

of the regions would have different realities. I will say, that the people who

are coming to me have been mainly people from Eastern Health though not only.

The people who are coming are doctors as a matter of fact, I had a doctor

in my office this morning nurses, social workers and administrators; key

people from inside the system. Some of the ones I have had come, and this is

very sad to say, have made decisions that they have to resign, they have to

leave. The reason they have to leave has nothing to do with money, in the case

of people I have been speaking to, it has to do with the climate and the culture

inside of their working situation, inside of Eastern Health in particular. They

do not want to leave. Some are actually going to other jobs outside the Province

so that they can do the work that they believe in. They do not want to leave the

Province, they want to stay here, yet they find themselves in the situation

where they have to leave for their own mental health.

That is really sad because I have met, and I do not want to exaggerate, but I

have met, I would say, between five and ten really qualified, dedicated,

committed health professionals who have come to me, who are having to leave

their positions here in this Province. They are doing it because of their own

health, their own well-being as individuals, their own mental health. They feel

that they have no choice, because if they stay, or if they had stayed inside of

Eastern Health, number one, they would not be able to be the professionals they

are, and number two, they would not be healthy individuals.

This is really sad. They have spoken to me about everything from the poor

communications system within Eastern Health itself, also poor communications

between each of the health authorities. They have talked about a lack of

coordination of services, everything from the ordering of supplies right

through, that there is a lack of coordination and there is poor communication.

They have told me that the new management model they now have in place means

that there is a disconnect between top management and front-line workers and

patients, that programs are not consistent throughout the whole system, and

these are all serious issues.

Now, over the past year or more, since I have been in the House, there have

been times when the Minister of Health and Community Services has stood and has

said that things are happening, things are taking place, things cannot happen

overnight. I realize that, but I am suggesting that things are taking way too

long here and that we have problems that we have to deal with immediately.

What I am suggesting, by having this review, an external review kike they did

in Nova Scotia, is that we actually go back to square one. I do not mean go back

before the four authorities, I mean go back to square one. The authorities have

been in place, they have been put in place, and we say: Okay, what do you need

to make the system work? Let's do what wasn't done in 2005. Let's put in

place what needs to be put in place. However, because we have had so many

problems, because there is a problem with morale under Eastern Health, because

people outside of Eastern Health are losing faith in how things are being run, I

am suggesting that we need to put in place an external review that brings in

consultants the way they did in Nova Scotia. Where those consultants work

closely, hand-in-hand, with the management of the four regional boards, and that

those consultants also open themselves to input from the outside, from the

community, from those who use the system, from those who use the services, and

they come up with recommendations that everybody has worked out together, and

then we start from square one.

I see that my time is up, Mr. Speaker, so that is my presentation. I will get

a chance to speak at the end and I will make the rest of my points then.

I look forward to hearing what I hope will be a fruitful discussion now in

the House with regard to my motion.

MR. SPEAKER (T. OSBORNE): The hon. the Minister of Health and Community

Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: (Inaudible) meaningful and fruitful discussion, but I have

to admit when I read the motion as proposed by the member opposite, it is

probably the longest motion that we have ever heard introduced in the House. As

I go through it, there is an array of things being talked about with respect to

the state of our health facilities. We talk about the bad news, we talk about

diagnostic services, we talk about the quality of care, we talk about tests, we

talk about an array of things in this motion and they are calling for a review.

Mr. Speaker, a couple of comments: As I listened to the member opposite share

with us her thoughts and her views on where we were as a health system, you

would think that our health care system today is collapsing around our ears, you

would believe that there is not a single soul out there today having emergency

surgery done, you would believe that there is not an ambulance running anywhere

in the country, you would believe that we did not have any physicians doing

anything at all today, you would believe that we would be locking doors,

shutting OR's and shutting down buildings. That is the state the member

opposite is trying to depict here in this Province today, I say, Mr. Speaker.

Let me remind the people in this House, and the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador, that there is nothing further from the truth, I say, Mr. Speaker;

nothing further from the truth at all. All you need to do - just look

statistically for a moment. Look at the Budget we just released, another

whopping increase in the provincial health budget. The provincial health budget

today is $2.3 billion. When we formed government four years ago, the provincial

budget for health was one point six. We have taken it from one point six up to

$2.3 billion a year.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: If you look across the country, look at any jurisdiction

across this country, and ask any Minister of Health and Community Services in

the entire country what has been the average rate of increase in your provincial

health budget in the last five years, and do you know what they will all tell

you? Two per cent, 3 per cent, 5 per cent, 6 per cent, that is the kind of

numbers you will hear around the country.

If you asked me today, as the current Minister of Health and Community

Services, what has been this Province's track record, what I will tell you is

that we have been up 9 per cent, 10 per cent, 8 per cent, outstripping the

growth in our provincial health budget by any other jurisdiction in this entire

country.

If you look at the Province's expenditure on health, we have the

second-highest investment per capita than any other province in the country,

second only by Alberta. Alberta has the highest investment per capita in health

than any other province in the country, but look at their great wealth. Look at

the great wealth and prosperity that they have enjoyed for many years. In this

Province we are the second-highest investor on a per capita basis than any other

jurisdiction in this country.

Mr. Speaker, from a budgetary perspective, that is exactly what we are doing

as a Province, but if you listen to the member opposite we are doing nothing.

Just look at the investments in this year's Budget. We have announced a new

hospital for Corner Brook. We are in the process of building a new long-term

care home in Corner Brook. We are in the process of building a new long-term

care home in Happy Valley-Goose Bay. We are in the process of completing the

construction of a new long-term care home in Clarenville. We are in the process

of renovating a long-term care in Lewisporte. We are in the process of looking

at what we are going to do with long-term care in St. John's. We have $1

million in the planning budget this year to plan for long-term care services in

the City of St. John's. We have $1 million in this year's Budget to plan for

acute care services in the City of St. John's.

Now, is that a sign of a government that is doing nothing, I say to the

member? Is that the sign of a government that is doing nothing?

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. WISEMAN: Far from it; that is the sign of a government who is putting

its money where its mouth is and investing significantly in health care in

Newfoundland and Labrador.

The second thing, we talk about the shortages of nurses, the shortages of

doctors, the shortages of social workers. That is all we hear from the member

opposite, about the shortages, the shortcomings. Well, let me tell you about

some of the investments that we have made.

Just look at the number of positions we have created in the last four years.

I am looking at a list here that says 192 new positions: thirty-nine public

health nurses, eighty-eight social workers, twenty-six home support nurses, and

twenty-one family practice physicians. That is an increase of 192 positions over

and above what we had four years ago when I could stand in this House and talk

about what we are doing with health care. I say again, is that the sign of a

Province that is doing nothing? I say not, Mr. Speaker, not at all.

As I listen to the member opposite talk about other jurisdictions, two she

has cited as being the gold standard, ones that we should model ourselves after,

ones that we should watch what they are doing because we should do the same. One

of those provinces was Manitoba. Let me tell the people of this House what

Manitoba actually did.

The member opposite is standing today calling for an immediate review of our

health system because we went through a regionalization process, but the

Province of Manitoba went through the same thing that we went through ten years

ago. Do you know what they did? They decided that we need ten full years of

boards going through a consolidation before we would do our review, because the

Province of Manitoba said consolidation of health authorities takes a period of

time to complete the transition. They understood what was involved in bringing

together several health authorities. They recognized that there is a period of

transition, there is a period of consolidation, and if you are to do an accurate

assessment of the success, you need the process to conclude.

The Province of Manitoba waited ten years, and the member opposite is

standing in this House today, as she has been standing for the last twelve

months, saying we should undertake a review immediately,

whereas we in this

Province only went through this exercise in 2005, three short years ago. Three

short years is a far cry from what she touts as being the gold standard in

Manitoba, which was ten years, I say, Mr. Speaker.

How she can stand in this House today and criticize us for not undertaking a

process three years into an exercise,

whereas her gold standard, her standard of

measurement, is Manitoba and they waited ten years. What a contradiction, I say,

Mr. Speaker. Again - once again, I say - totally ignoring the significant amount

of work we are doing but it reflects the lack of understanding of the nature of

our health system.

Mr. Speaker, when we look at the issue of our human resources, I have said in

this House many times and I will say it again today, for the first time in our

history we have more registered nurses in this Province today than we have ever

had in our history. We have more physicians registered to practice in

Newfoundland today than we ever had any time in our history. I say, Mr. Speaker,

that is a reflection of significant investments in human resources, significant

investments in recruitment and significant investments in initiatives to retain

people in this Province, the kind of capable, competent people we need to do the

kind of work that we do.

Mr. Speaker, I think many members of this House just recently - and I just

want to share a couple of things. I want to share a couple of things, Mr.

Speaker, about the level of activity that is going on in this Province. I am

looking at some data here that tells us that we are admitting some fifty-six,

fifty-seven thousand people a year into our hospitals in this Province. Every

one of them, I say, Mr. Speaker, having an encounter with our health system that

they can walk away from and talk about the quality of care they received from

the well qualified, very capable, competent people we have working in our

system. We are looking at having over 350,000 visits to our emergency

department, Mr. Speaker. Yes, I acknowledge and I think this government would

acknowledge, that periodically you will hear of complaints about people going to

emergency departments and having a long wait, but I do not think we have 350,000

complaints. Do you know why we do not? Because there are 350,000 people going to

our emergency departments each and every year in this Province and being taken

care of in a very capable, competent way. On occasion, Mr. Speaker, there will

be people who will be waiting an inordinate amount time because emergency

departments are there to respond to emergencies and they prioritize, so

non-emergent cases sometimes have to wait. If you look at the volume, 350,000

visits a year and only having a handful of complaints, that is not a bad average

I say, Mr. Speaker; not a bad average at all.

When you look at the number of inpatient surgeries we do, close to 25,000

inpatient surgeries a year being done in our hospitals throughout this Province

- I say, Mr. Speaker, yes, we may get some complaints but for the most

part it

is only a very small percentage of those people who go through our health system

each and every day. They are quite satisfied with the service they get, quite

satisfied with the calibre of the people who provide services to them and take

care of them and they have absolutely no complaints about the service they get.

Again, Mr. Speaker, if you start looking at our health system as zeroing in

on some of the problems that you might hear about - I am not going to stand here

in the House today or any time and tell you that every single thing that is

happening in ever single one of our health authorities each and every day is

running perfectly smooth and there are not issues to be dealt with. I am not

going to tell you that, I say, Mr. Speaker, but fundamentally each and every day

in this Province there is quality care being provided by capable and competent

people; and I cannot repeat that enough. I cannot repeat that enough, Mr.

Speaker, because it bears repeating. The people of this Province, the people of

this House, need to fundamentally understand and appreciate that.

You know what I believe, Mr. Speaker? I believe that most people do. When

they look at the televised debate that takes place in this House, if you were to

listen to the members opposite I am reminded of Buddy Wasisname, the arse is

fallin' out of her, but nothing is any further from the truth.

AN HON. MEMBER: She's gone boy.

MR. WISEMAN: Nothing at all. She's not gone. We have a capable,

competent group of people running our health system; a capable, competent group

of people, I say, Mr. Speaker. All you need to do is look at the statistics.

Mr. Speaker, I know we are not allowed to make references in the House, but I

will just try to paraphrase this. The members of this House attended a function

sponsored by the Diabetes Association very recently. One of the things that I

have repeated time and time again, since I have been minister, just a little

over a year, we have done a lot of things as a government, as did previous

ministers, as our government has done as a whole in the last five years. One of

the things that I have reflected on personally, any number of times, is what we

did last year with investment of insulin pumps.

I just want to read just one short sentence from a young man who provided a

commentary about the effect of our investment last year in insulin pumps. He

says: since getting the pump I can be a normal kid again. Counting carbs has

even helped me with my math. I only have to take one needle every three days,

compared to five needles a day. Now, that's awesome!" Those are his

words.

I listened to the member opposite today talking about our health system as if

it is falling apart. All you need to do is take those one or two sentences I

just read, add that to the other numerous testimonies that we have gotten about

the quality of the investments we have made and the quality of services being

provided in our health system, and that is what we take comfort in, I say, Mr.

Speaker. Each and every person in this House can stand and tell a story about

something that has been shared with them about a problem in our health system.

When you ask, can you also stand and tell a good news story, many more people

will be to their feet faster, and that is what we need to focus on.

We do not need to be focussing on the negative tripe being raised by members

opposite continuously in this House, trying to leave an impression, trying to

create an impression that our health system is falling apart. They are

attempting to undermine the quality work being done by physicians, nurses,

social workers and technologists in this Province out there every single day.

The comments made by members opposite in this House only serve to undermine the

work that they are doing each and every day in this House, I say, Mr. Speaker.

That is something we need to be mindful of; mindful of the quality of work being

done and looking at the investments that have been made in our health system.

I only have a minute or so left, Mr. Speaker and I just want to wrap up if I

could.

Fundamentally, I acknowledge that the member opposite has raised some issues

that she believes are a concern. Each and every day in our health system we are

looking at making improvements. That is why we have quality assurance programs.

That is why we have people in our health authorities throughout the Province

looking at quality initiatives every day. They are looking at what it is that is

being done on a daily basis with a view to understanding it better, with a view

to improving it,

whereas the member opposite stands in this House trying to

criticize what is taking place with the view of destroying, demoralizing and

tearing down the good work that is being done by people throughout the Province.

I will not stand in this House today and suggest that I am going to support

this motion. In fact, inasmuch as members opposite might think it has merit, I

will not be standing later in this House - and I will ask my colleagues on this

side of the House to join with me and not support this motion put forward by the

member opposite, because I think it reflects a lack of understanding about our

health system. It reflects a lack of understanding about how the health system

works. It clearly reflects a lack of understanding of what is needed today to

stabilize our health system, what is needed today to rebuild the health system

and what is needed today to support our regional health authorities in the

transition that they are going through to align themselves with good quality

care. The whole notion of bringing health authorities together was not simply a

mathematical exercise to save money. We have four health authorities brought

together to create a seamless health system across the community, across long

term care, across our acute sector, with a view of having a seamless health

system, an effective and an efficient delivery model for the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador. In the long term it will serve all Newfoundlanders

and Labradorians very well. I think we just need to be patient and focus on the

good things that are happening, Mr. Speaker.

I think my time is up, and thank you for the opportunity to make a couple of

comments.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Port de Grave.

MR. BUTLER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It is a pleasure to be able to stand today and use up my time on behalf of

the motion that was put forward by the hon. Member for Signal HillQuidi Vidi.

I listened with great interest to the Minister of Health and I have to say,

regardless of what he thinks and what I should focus on, and advising me what I

should focus on, I can assure him that I was elected to come to this House to

bring the concerns of my constituents and others throughout this Province to the

floor of this House of Assembly. For the next fourteen minutes and thirty

seconds, that is what I am about to do.

Let me begin by saying: you will never see me stand in this hon. House and

say that in this country and in this Province we do not have a good health care

system. That does not mean to say that everything is perfect with it. I can

stand here and give good testimonies about kids in my district who received

insulin pumps. That is all wonderful, and I commend the government for that, but

do I sit down and keep my lips closed because someone told me a good story and I

can't get up here and tell what is really going on in this Province?

The minister might stand here and lecture us and whatever, but we do have an

opportunity to stand and present what we believe. I heard him make a comment to

the hon. Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi with regard to we stand on this side

of the House, on our feet, for twelve months going on with the same rhetoric.

Twelve months! You would want to be here for fifteen years before you would be

able to stand on your feet here and talk for twelve months, because the House of

Assembly has not been open, for glory sake, for the last eight or ten months!

Mr. Speaker, all too often we hear examples in the health care system, and I

have heard it back and forth across the House from time to time that this is

what we inherited. That is all fine. I can remember when the former

Administration took over in 1989. Probably the same comments were made; because,

when they took over, they took over from a former Administration when the

Premier of the day said: I cannot do what has to be done.

No doubt, they did not have the finances to carry out the work that we can do

today. Mr. Speaker, that is fine to say that one or two years into your term,

and possibly you can get forgiveness in the third year, but when it comes to the

fourth or the fifth year I think things can be done and should be dealt with.

Mr. Speaker, I do not only stand here today and say this to this

Administration. I can assure you, in my years as a politician, prior to being

elected - there are letters on file, if the hon. ministers of the former

Administration kept their documentation, letters from me complaining about

issues that were in the health care system. More than once Minister Matthews,

when he was in his seat, got letters from me complaining about the same issues,

probably, that I am dealing with on a daily basis with my petitions now. The

same thing when Minister Smith was there. When it came to the dialysis unit, we

went in and took on that Administration at that time in full force, got their

listening ear and, whether fortunately or unfortunately, the administrations

changed before it could come into effect. Thank God for the former Minister of

Health, the Member for Topsail; when she was there she took the advice that was

there, proceeded with it, and that facility and that unit is operating in

Carbonear.

Mr. Speaker, from time to time in the member's statement she lists quite a

few issues, and I guess you have to if you are referencing that you want a total

review done of the health care system. Mr. Speaker, one of the things that she

spoke about here is the infrastructure. I have been standing on a regular basis

with regard to the long-term care facility in the Conception Bay North area.

I heard the minister today going through the list that is being done, or what

is planned to be built in this Province. That is all wonderful. I commend the

government for that. I commended them to the people who are getting those

facilities; but, I say to the minister, one of the reasons this motion is coming

forward, I hope that he can put back on the tracks the recommendation that was

put forward a few years ago for a long-term care facility for Conception Bay

North. I call on my hon. colleagues who represent the districts next to mine. I

know they cannot stand here today and probably support this motion, but I would

like for them to stand up and say what we are saying is correct. They know the

situation, what is happening in the Conception Bay North area. They have heard

it before about the long-term care facility. Mr. Speaker, they have also heard

it about the shortage of doctors in our area.

When I started presenting my petitions back some days ago, or weeks ago I

should say, I was probably the lone one in the wilderness crying out about the

shortage of doctors in the area. Mr. Speaker, since that time we have heard from

the medical profession itself, saying there is a shortage of doctors. We hear

from the Joint Councils in our area, both on the Trinity Bay side and the

Conception Bay side. We see letters on a daily basis in the media, people

calling on the Open Line shows about a shortage of doctors in their area. We

hear the specialists themselves crying out.

Only today in The Compass , our local paper in the Conception Bay North

area, the Mayor for Carbonear, on the front page, crying out, and this is what

his comments were, Mr. Speaker. The headline was, "Stop the bleeding!

Doctor shortage needs treatment before it becomes crisis". That is the

Mayor of Carbonear crying out, crying out to government and whomever with

Eastern Health to step out, look for new doctors, and try and bring them to our

area.

Another lady, Victoria Harnum, noted in the paper, said how she sent letters

to Eastern Health, she sent letters to her MHA - and I am not sure who her MHA

is because I am not sure where she lives - but she said all she received so far

is a runaround.

There are more people coming forward, major concerns. When the Mayor of

Carbonear speaks out about the shortage of doctors in the area, and he is saying

it is going to hinder the process of people moving to the area - with the new

development and the wealth that we experience on the Northeast Avalon.

Mr. Speaker, the other issues that the hon. member brings forward in her

private member's motion have to do with, I guess, medication and what have

you, and different issues, and seeing that everything is brought forward on a

timely basis.

One of the main issues I have been bringing up from time to time is when

doctors, specialists, prescribe various medications to patients and, lo and

behold, when they issue the prescription to them they go to the pharmacy, and

the drug program here in this Province, for whatever reason, they just turn the

people down.

I have had people in my district and adjacent areas, cancer patients waiting

for their medication, being advised that you do not qualify. What happens? They

have to get a special authorization form to go back to that specialist.

We all know how difficult it is to get to see a specialist in this Province

because of the times and the limits and the number of patients they have to see

on a monthly and yearly basis. Sometimes it could take eight to ten months

before you can get in to see a specialist. What does that individual do? They

have to come in to the office of the specialist, try to get the secretary or

their workers there to see the specialist, when he is probably running from one

patient to the other, or what have you, and have this authorization form signed,

and when they bring this back they get their medication. Now, what is the

difference in a little piece of paper, four by four, than a full sheet of paper

with the same specialist's name on it with regard to that drug program?

I have had other cancer patients who went and got their medication approved

by a specialist, went to the drugstore, and when they came back they were told

they were to take two pills per day. When it came back and said: I am sorry, you

cannot get two pills a day; you are only permitted to have one.

What they had to do was take what was prescribed to them by the specialist,

but in the middle of that month, or before the thirty days were up, they were

out of their medication and had to go through a timely process - people with

cancer and other illnesses.

Mr. Speaker, we heard here today some of the questions that I put forward.

The Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board mentioned about the

unions and negotiations. That is not what this was about, those people who came

here today. They are people in the back rooms that we do not see. Those people

are the concerns after we deal with the doctors and the nurses and all of the

specialists. Those are the people who keep the operation going. They did not

come here today to negotiate on the steps of the Confederation Building. They

came here today to make it known that they have major concerns, and rightly so.

They did not come here for parity with someone in New Brunswick or Nova Scotia.

All they want is to be on parity with the people on the other side of the street

where they work. Two people going to work in the morning, doing the same job,

with the same qualifications, and lo and behold one is getting six-something

more an hour than the others.

Mr. Speaker, the minister mentioned earlier about spending money, and what

increases have been put into the Budget, and that is wonderful. I commend

government because the two main issues, I guess, in our Province are health care

and education. It is good to see money going in there. It is good to see things

being done. That does not mean to say everything is fine and rosy out there. The

people who call us, I am sure they are not calling and giving us stories and

concerns about wait lists and what have you - even though the minister said this

is being corrected and hopefully so, Mr. Speaker, we have to deal with it.

Maybe this is where the problem is. Maybe that is why the hon. member's

motion means so much, is to have a review done. Apparently, by putting money

there it is not correcting the problem. No doubt it helps in certain areas.

Maybe it is how the money is being spent and allocated in the various areas.

This has nothing to do with the people who operate our health care system,

whether it is the doctors and nurses, whether it is the skilled workforce like

we had here today. Either way, Mr. Speaker, each and every one of them take

part

in this health care system, and it is a wonderful health care system. We all

admit that. There are other countries that only wish they could have what we

have and what we enjoy. There are problems and I think the minister has to stop

pointing fingers and saying, we have to focus on the good. I praise the good,

but also, I say to the minister, he has to sit back and listen to the concerns

of the people, look at the issues that are there, the problems that people have.

Today, Mr. Speaker, I will conclude by saying I will be supporting the member's

motion for an independent external review. I hope my hon. colleagues opposite,

who know the situation in the areas that I represent and they represent, I hope

at least today they will stand and confirm that what I am saying is accurate,

even if they cannot vote for the motion. There is nothing wrong with that, but

just get up and say their piece on what is happening in the area.

Mr. Speaker, with that I thank you for the opportunity.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Member for Conception Bay South.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think I am going to take the Member for Port de Grave's advice, I think I am

going to get up and say my piece on this one. I am certainly not going to be

voting for the motion, I might add. I have read the motion somewhat in great

detail, I guess. Like one of the speakers earlier said, it is probably one of

the longest private members' motions I have ever seen in the House. I would

say it criticizes just about everything in health care. I do not think there is

one thing in health care it misses. I stand to be corrected and certainly I

would allow the member to amend it later if she feels that she missed something.

We talk about crumbling infrastructure, we invested $399 million, I believe

it was, in the infrastructure this year. She talks about sprinkler systems

installed in personal care homes, we insisted that they be done. It certainly

was not the politically correct thing to do. I have more personal care homes and

community care homes in my district than anywhere else in the Province. However,

we believed it was a life safety issue as a government and we dealt with it.

She talks about the trust in our health care system being shaken and refers

to the radiology tests and so on, Mr. Speaker, hence we called the Cameron

Inquiry. She talked about an ageing population, the problems with an ageing

population and the lack of things that we have done. Now, Mr. Speaker, I can

assure you that I could stand here for at least fifteen minutes and talk about

what we have done for seniors in the last number of years, going right back to a

commitment we made in our 2003 Blue Book and the things we have carried out

since. I recently had the opportunity to speak at a lifestyle show and just a

couple of things that I mentioned there were: the $26.8 million that was given

to single seniors affects 31,500 people in this Province, that $26 million

commitment. We have given another $10 million to home support, Mr. Speaker, to

enhance the wages in home support. We put another $1 million up just so people

would not have to include in their financial assessment RRSPs that they may

have. Mr. Speaker, when I see things like this and I know the difference, I

certainly I have to vote against it.

She talks about rural and remote areas. This year's Budget is tattooed with

stuff for places like St. Anthony, for Clarenville, for Happy ValleyGoose

Bay, Mr. Speaker; improvements in the facility in Grand FallsWindsor. Mr.

Speaker, no one has committed to rural Newfoundland when it comes to health care

like this government.

Now, Mr. Speaker, this whole review called for an independent, external

review of our integrated health regions, that they be examined by a review

panel. Mr. Speaker, the health budget now is $2.3 billion, and I will get to

that in a minute. Can you imagine the magnitude of a study to investigate a $2.3

billion operation or corporation? Currently now, with the Cameron Commission, I

do not have the exact numbers in front of me and I certainly do not know if I

have heard the exact numbers, but I can assure you that Inquiry will take

millions of dollars at day's end. It is very well-spent money but for sure it

will take millions. Can you imagine what it would cost the people of this

Province and the amount of time it would take to do this kind of review? My

guess is it would cost probably hundreds of millions of dollars, so instead of

having the latest of equipment out around our Province, we will stop doing that

and we will take that money and invest it in the reviews.

Mr. Speaker, I certainly do not understand it. Our four regional health

authorities became operational April 1, 2005, and, Mr. Speaker, any time there

is a transition like that, that certainly takes time. Even though this is taking

time, there are people in this Province and the minister referenced it

earlier every single day of the week, in this Province, getting good health

care. There are forty-four of us on this side of the House forty-four of us

and I would hazard to say, that every single one of us has had to deal with

our health care system, for a variety of reasons. Some of us probably more so

than others, some of us less so. However, Mr. Speaker, we have all had to deal

with it, we have all gone through it, and we have all had good experiences. I am

sure that there are people who have bad experiences. I am sure when you run

anything - if we took $2.3 billion tomorrow and invested it in bags of potatoes,

and were giving them out on the corner of the street, I am sure that problems

would arise.

Mr. Speaker, in an issue, in an atmosphere as serious as health care, in a

$2.3 billion budget, yes there are going be bumps in the road, yes, things are

going to happen. It is not going to keep everybody happy. We heard a number here

earlier there were 350,000 people who went to our emergency rooms last year.

Mr. Speaker, we did not have 350,000 problems in our emergency rooms. Far, far

from it.

We are dealing with the issues at hand, as they come up. The health care

system in this Province is working as well or better than most throughout the

country, Mr. Speaker. This whole motion would lead you to believe that all these

problems with the ER-PR happened as the result of the coming together of these

boards. Mr. Speaker, I want to remind people out there in the general public

that that is not the case. These problems started in 1997, long before the 2005

implementation of the four boards, Mr. Speaker. To leave that impression out

there is certainly erroneous, Mr. Speaker. When this was brought to light in

2005, we took immediate action. Like I said, this erroneous testing dates back

to 1997, so how that can be somehow related to the amalgamation that happened to

the boards in 2004, Mr. Speaker, is beyond me.

Mr. Speaker, the Leader of the NDP stood up here last week and said, well, I

must be the one from government that has to attack her, that has to go after

her. I can assure the hon. member, nothing could be further from the truth. That

is not the way I operate at all. Mr. Speaker, when I hear the Leader of the NDP,

the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi, stand up here day after day after day

every day in the House she asks for endless pots of money. Every issue

imaginable, she asks for endless pots of money. Yet, Mr. Speaker, she does not

acknowledge the good things we are doing in this Province. Her whole motion on

health care is to tear us down, that there is nothing any good happening.

Well, Mr. Speaker, it was not that long ago, just last year, that she

complimented the Minister of Health in this Province. She complimented the

minister on HealthLine. She was not really sure if it was going to work or not,

but she had experience with it and she thought it worked perfectly, I think was

her word. She congratulated the Minister of Health and government on bringing

HealthLine up and running and was delighted with it.

Now, Mr. Speaker, we never hear her talk about that in this House. We never

hear her reference the good things that are happening here in health care in

this Province. So, I am reminding her that there are good things happening.

Mr. Speaker, I think another thing, do you know what we should have? The

members on this side of the House kept making reference to the debt clock that

the Minister of Finance was showing as he was going around doing his

consultations. Well, Mr. Speaker, I think we should have a new clock in this

House. Forget about the clock; I think we should have a new machine, a new

adding machine, on the wall, so the every time the Leader of the NDP stands to

her taps and make a suggestion we should run up the total on the wall. Mr.

Speaker, I would say by the end of one session in the House -

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: - that the NDP adding machine would be long blown off the

wall, Mr. Speaker.

Look, Ontario had an NDP government a number of years ago under the

leadership of Rob Rae. I am sure he is one of her heroes; Rob Rae was the guy.

Now, he just about ran Ontario into bankruptcy, and I fear that if the Member

for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi ever could get signing authority to the cheque book

of this Province, Mr. Speaker, we would be bottom-up in no time flat, I can

assure you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: So, Mr. Speaker, here we are again, she wants more money. She

wants more money now to do this study, and here we have the health care boards -

we as a government will say openly we are still in transition. We are still

putting the pieces together of this. It is working well, and we are getting

there, Mr. Speaker, but a $2.3 million corporation - that does not go to four

regions and happen overnight.

Mr. Speaker, we are not different than anywhere else nationally. We are very

comparable to what is happening in this country, Mr. Speaker. To be totally

honest with you, I should outline - because another thing that you would get

from this motion is that we have the big bad health care boards; we reduced down

to four, and this is unreal. There are 293,000 in Eastern Health, Mr. Speaker;

this is beyond. There is no one else in world doing anything as crazy as that.

Well, Mr. Speaker, I just want to share with you some numbers. Alberta, for

example, has what they call Capital Health; it serves 1.6 million people. Now,

keep in mind, the biggest health board we have in this Province is 293,000

people. Nova Scotia, Capital District Health Authority, serves 395,000 people;

again, way above what we are doing here in Eastern Health, in this Province. In

B.C., Vancouver Coastal Health serves 1 million people. Our biggest health board

is about a quarter of that size, Mr. Speaker. The Winnipeg Regional Health

Authority serves 700,000 people.

So, Mr. Speaker, what we hear about the great big health boards, we are not

reinventing the wheel here. There are people in this country looking after five

times as many people, six times as many people, as one of our boards.

Mr. Speaker, New Brunswick, for example, just announced that they have two

health authorities instead of eight. So they have gone now, in a population of

approximately 750,000, they are going to have a health board with 375,000

people. As a matter of fact, as far as big health boards go, we are on the low

end of the scale. We are on the smaller end of the scale when it comes to the

size of health boards in this country. When I hear talk, like I have heard

recently, about how big they are and they are not manageable and so on, nothing

could be further from the truth. Like I said, we are not reinventing the wheel.

Mr. Speaker, seeing we are talking about health boards and we are debating

this motion, I would not normally bring this up today but I felt strong enough

yesterday - I was totally disappointed. When the Leader of the Official

Opposition stood up yesterday - I want to quote her on some of the things that

she said. She goes on in her debate and she says, "Then today we had Dr.

Tumilty who was the President of the Newfoundland and Labrador Medical

Association in the paper, Mr. Speaker, saying that at no time during the last

week's meeting between doctors and the government did the Cameron Inquiry come

up." She also goes on to say, "Mr. Speaker, this Premier is out there

looking to disparage their characters, looking out there to undermine their

professional abilities." - this is the Leader of the Official Opposition

referring to the Premier - " just like he has done with Dr. Tumilty

today. It is absolutely disgusting, Mr. Speaker!"

Well, Mr. Speaker, I happened to be here in this House yesterday and,

although I was not at the meeting, when that was said publicly I was in the room

with a professional who happened to be in the room, and her line to me was:

Terry, lots of times I see this in the paper, or I see it on TV, and I say well,

that is only someone's word against somebody else's word, but - she said - I

was in the room and I actually heard the conversation.

The Leader of the Official Opposition, talking about the Premier as if he was

making this up, there was nothing further from the truth.

Mr. Speaker, what should happen in The Telegram - and I want to quote

the May 14, 2008, telegram. Mr. Speaker, I am going to read this in its

entirety; it is short. "I was quoted as saying that the subject of the

Commission of Inquiry into Hormone Receptor Testing was not discussed during the

formal part of a meeting between the Newfoundland and Labrador Medical

Association and the premier to address issues related to the recruitment and

retention of pathologists and oncologists. In fact, there was discussion about

the commission which I unfortunately did not recall. I wish to apologize to the

premier for any upset or damage to his reputation that my inaccurate statement

may have caused."

Mr. Speaker, there we have the Leader of the Newfoundland and Labrador

Medical Association withdrawing, apologizing to the Premier, gentlemanly enough

to do so, admittedly wrong, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, today I think it is only fitting that the Leader of the Official

Opposition, in true parliamentary fashion, stand in this House and make an

official apology to the Premier of this Province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. FRENCH: Because what she said yesterday was absolutely false, Mr.

Speaker. She was quoting someone who she should not have been quoting, and I

feel today she should stand in her place, do the appropriate parliamentary

thing, and apologize to the Premier of this Province, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, I have many things I could go on about, many, many more issues.

Some of the speakers here earlier have highlighted some of the commitments in

health care in this Province; but, like I said, we cannot forget a couple of key

points. My time is up, but I will just be a couple of minutes to clue up - a

couple of key points.

MR. SPEAKER: Order please!

Does the member have leave?

AN HON. MEMBER: By leave.

MR. FRENCH: I just want to make a couple of quick points, and I want to

remind the Member for Signal Hill-Quidi Vidi of one more thing before I sit

down.

In this Province, 30 per cent of our provincial budget is spent on health

care, $2.3 billion. Mr. Speaker, we have gone from $1.6 billion to $2.3 billion

in expenses. We are the second-highest per capita of spending in health care in

the country, Mr. Speaker, and the highest percentage of our expenditure is in

health care in this Province.

Mr. Speaker, to say we have done nothing, to read this motion here today, you

would think we were off the wall and nothing could be further from the truth. We

are listening.

Before I sit down, I suggest to the Leader of the New Democratic Party that

although I did not hear it personally, my understanding is that the leader of

the nurses' union was on one of the talk shows today and it was asked: Do you

think a review of the system is needed? Her reply, Mr. Speaker, someone who is

very familiar with this whole health care system, was: no need for a review.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Government Services.

MR. O'BRIEN: Yes, Mr. Speaker.

I would like to make a point of order, a point of clarification, in regard to

a question I was asked in the House today. I might have said one word wrong and

I want to clarify that in regard to the removal of the tax on insurance. What I

meant was, after January 1 st , if you had set up a payment plan with a

particular insurance company and there were payments to be made after the point

that we announced the tax, then they would get a refund from that point up to

January 1 st and then afterwards the insurance company would adjust

the payments. If it was paid by cheque, they would return the cheques and you

would write other cheques. If it was being made by bank withdrawal, then that

would be adjusted as well.

Previous to January 1 st , they do not get any refund. If you did

that, a person, say, if their insurance was paid in November and they paid it

out over the year, well they would get the benefit twice in one year and that

would be unfair to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. That is what I meant

by the answer.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Leader of the Opposition.

MS JONES: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I certainly want to rise and have a few remarks on the resolution that has

been put forward by the Leader of the New Democratic Party today, a resolution

that is calling upon the government to enhance the health care system in this

Province through a series of external reviews of health care boards,

administrations and services provided under that.

Mr. Speaker, I missed the comments by the member for Conception Bay South but

I understand from some comments being thrown back and forth the floor in the

House of Assembly right now that he was asking that I apologize for some remarks

that I made yesterday.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS JONES: Mr. Speaker, I have absolutely nothing to apologize for. I have

absolutely nothing to apologize for, Mr. Speaker, and I certainly will not make

any apologies.

Mr. Speaker, he is referring to comments that I made when I talked about the

Cameron Inquiry and the actions of the Premier and the Minister of Justice

around this entire issue, and how they were calling into question the integrity

of professionals in this Province, calling into refute their reputations, as

professionals in Newfoundland and Labrador. I certainly make no apologies for

that. Anyone who follows the media knows what the actions of the Premier and the

Minister of Just