'1 Volume 2 ' PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND THIRTY-SIXTH GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND 2nd Session VERBATIM REPORT Thursday, February 15, 1973 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE JAMES M. RUSSELL Number 5

February 15. 1973 The House met at 3:00 P.M. iir. Speaker in the Chair. Order please! Tape 100 PK - 1 PRESENTIN~ REPORTS OF STANDING AND SELECT COMHITTEES ~-~·--- MR._1_0!:~RTER:. I beg leave to table a couple of docu..11ents or a couple of photoj'!raphs, perhaps a word only of explantion is necessary. There happened to be a diagram of the weather in and around St. John's. It is taken from a diagram done by Nr. Frank Rowe of the Weather Office here at Torbay Airport. And since I have heard rumors that I feel are pretty, are more than rumors,that there may he some attempt made to move the c1t}' dump.

T wish to tahle these for the information of my collea~ues and the press, if they are interested. to show that the prevailinp: winds in and around St. ~John's are westerly, in a f}enerally western direction and therefore I maintain that the dump is in the i,est possible position and should be left where it is. I beg leave to table these. I ask the pare to take these. HON~E_, M. ROBERTS• (LEADER OF THF OPPOSITION)~ Hr. Speaker, I do not in any wny challenge the honourable gentleman's rip.ht to tahle whatever he likes. My colleague tabled a large cod fish last year, if l recall it.

But I wonder if Your Honour could tell me for our future f<Uidance what is the procedure when an individual member of this House. esriecially one who does not hold an appointment of a ministeri wishes to table a document other than in the course of his speech or in support of a motion. T mean I am generally intrigued. I am glad. I shall look at the pictures and since I do live in the east end of St. John 1 s, with a special interest. But could Your Honour perhaps enlighten us somewhat, MR. SPEAKER: I will take it under advisement. MR. ]lOBERTS: He does not know either.

HR. _51:'I:0KFR: Any other reports of standing and select committees? HON. J. C. CROSBIE: (MINISTER OF FINANCE): !n fact the Annual Report of

February 15, 1973 Tape 100 PK - 2 Civil Service Commission has never heen a best seller. This 1s here the fiscal year ended March 31. 1972. So there will he copies distributed to all the members. There will be another one tabled next year but that will be the last one I believe. Where are the pages? AN HON. MEMBER: That went over bi~. 1-.fR. CROSBIEi I see there is no great rush to ~et this document. !!ON.,_,!_. ROUSSEAU (MINISTER OF REP.ABILITATION AND _R_JcCRFA:r_ION) • Mr.

Speaker, I would like to table the Rules and Regulations of the Boyles Home AdministrationAmendment Regulation as of the 31st. of March 1,12. HON. T ._ V. HICKEY (MINISTER OF PROVINCIAL AFFAIRS AND FNVIRONME•:~): ''r. Speaker, I would like to tahle the regulations pertaininp. to the Real Estate Trading Act~ 296

February 15, 1973 Tape 101 JM - 1 NOTICE OF MCTIONS: HON. T.V.HICKEY(MINISTER OF PROVINCIAL AFFAIRS AND ENVIRONMENT): Mr. Speaker, may I have leave to give notice of motion? I am sorry I missed the opportunity. I would like to give notice that I will on tomorrow introduce the following bill: nAn Act Respecting An Administrator For Lake Apartments." ORDERS OF THE DAY: MR. S.A. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the hon. the Premier. Before I do I want to welcome him back to the House after his bout with the flu.

I trust that he is feelin~ better and that he will be able to stay with us for a while. I would like to ask the hon. the Premier if the government has taken any action on a letter from the United Steel Workers of America at Buchans asking the )?Overnment to intervene, to have a representative of the company stationed in Buchans during the contract negotiations bet~een the union and the company so that the company representative will be able to make on the spot decisions and they will not have to be continuously referring matters to the head office in New York. HON. FRANK D. MOOF.ES(PREMIER): Mr.

Speaker, regarding the letter I received from the union at Buchans the part that I think is relevant is that it says very definitely the situation as outlined above, and that was the strike,in that conciliation have now been required and the fact that it may be repeated is of concern to this union, its membership and surely the concern of the government. 11 Whilst it is not the responsibility nor should it be of government to intervene in free collective bargaining or to force settlements on either of the parties it is however incumbent upon your government to remind American Smelting and Refining, a multinational corporation with its head office in New York, that it has a responsibility (1) to be a good corporate citizen, (2) to bargain in good faith with its employees to promote 297

February 15, 1973 Tape 101 industrial good faith and so on.'' It does not say anythint about bringing in anyone from New York. It is our intention through the Department of Labour. our conciliator officer.to impress both upon JM - 2 the union and the company to deal in good faith and to be good corporate and good labour citizens. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, there may be a supplementary question arising out of the hon. Premier's answer but I do not want to ask it. I want to direct a question to the hon. Minister of Fisheries.

Will the hon. minister inform the House if any action has been taken on a request from the fishermen in Torbay to have repairs made to storm damage at Tappers Cove. both to the facilities themselves and to the equipment and ~ear owned by the individual fishermen in Torbay? AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). The question was directed to the hon. Minister of Fisheries, Mr. Speaker. HON. R. CHEESMi\.''l(MINISTER OF FISHERIES): Mr.

Speaker. in answer to the question, there is some examination and investigation of the facilities at Torbay and Tappers Cove presently under way but specifically and I would not wish to make a statment that may in any way be inaccurate so I would prefer to provide the information specific that you are requesting at this time at a later time. MR. P.S. THOMS: Mr. Speaker, I would like to direct a question to the Minister of Recreation and Rehabilitation, I believe it is, in relation to the Hoyles Home,. Could the minister inform this House as to how 298

February 15~ 1973,, Tnpe 102, Page l -- apb many people are resident in the home at the present time? How many of these people are at this present time paying at least six hundred dollars or more per month? HON. J~G.ROUSSEAU (Minister of Rehabilitation and Recreation): Two hundred and forty-seven total and eleven are paying their own way. MR. IIOODI/ARD: Hr.

Speaker, I would like to d:lrect a question to the honourable minister of Economic Development~ I would like to ask the minister if the Provincial Government have appointed the four members to the project group that was set up by the minister of DREE, the honourable Don Jamie.son? In the project group is the committee that will be co-ordinating the phase--in of H.O.T. into the use of the base facilities. HON. C~W.DOODY (Minister of Economic Development): Hr. Speaker, we have been in consultation with the DREE people on this, particularly with the minister. The arrangements have been made.

We have made the recommendations for the provincial representatives. We are awaiting the joint decision now as to whom the manager will be. When that decision is made there will be an announcement to that effect. I was under the impression that the honourable member for Labrador North had been so notified by the ministry in Ottawa to that effect, at least I was so informed yesterday when I was speaking to them. As the honourable member voiced his concern to me in the corridor, I immediately conveyed it to Ottawa and they told me that they would be in consultation with you.

If they have not by now, I am sure they will shortly. !Ill. WOODWARD: I would like to thank the honourable minister for his concern, Hr. Speaker. NR. H.W.C.GILLETT: I have a question which I would like to direct to the Minister of Fisheries. This question has to do with the haul-out, the longliner haul-out and storage at Durrell's, Twillingate District. Can the minister tell this House please when the completion will be 299

February 15, 1973, Tape 102, Page 2 -- apb finished and actually when it will commence again? I have a reason for asking this, Mr. Speaker~ HON. R.L.CHEESEMAN (Hinister of Fisheries): In response to the honourable member's question. I would like to take this question as notice and supply the accurate information at a later date. MR. GILLETT: Thank you very much. HR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, I have a question for the Minister (it is Manpower and Industrial Relations, is it? ) The new act has been proclaimed? Manpower and Industrial Relations? AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) HR. ROBERTS: changed.

It is the one act that was - the one title that has !lli_ll.Q_N.,_ MEVl'Fll_. (Inaudible) HR. ROBERTS: I mean the Premier should know who is in his cabinet, at least what they are called. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible) HR. ROBERTS: Well, if the honourable gentleman would labour it would be a good thing for all of us. With reference to the letter 1ddressed to the Premier on February 8, by the United Steele Workers in Buchans, signed by Mr.

Don Head. their president, I wonder if he could tell us whether any steps hnve been ta.t:en to carry out the obligation which in the opinion of that union local is incumbent upon the Government of the Province? If so~ what the steps are. Would you read that one again? MR. ROBERTS: Oh sure, Hr. Speaker, I will be delighted to. I wonder Mr. Speaker, whether the honourable gentleman could tell us1 whether any steps have been taken by the government to carry out the obligation which in the opinion of the union local at Buchans is incumbent upon the government, and if so, what those steps are? MR.

DAWE: Is the honourable member referring to a letter to the Premier? !1R. ROBERTS: I said I was referring to a letter adressed to the 300

February 15, 1973 3 Taep 102, Page 3 -- apb honourable the Premier,dated February 8, signed by Hr. Don Head, the president. A copy went to the gentleman who is the member for Grand Falls. I think it is fair to assume that my colleagues and I nlso have copies of this communication. MR. DAWE: I do not recall seeing the letter. MR. ROBERTS: In other words, Hr. Speaker, no steps have been taken that the honourable gentleman is aware of. Is that correct? MR. DAWE: I think I will have to take that under advisement .•• HR. ROBERTS: You would like to have words with the Premier. Okay, I suggest that you get together. HR.

NEARY: Mr. Speaker, the honourable Premier just misled the House in his answer. HON. F.D.MOORES: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. I did no such thing as mislead this House. It seems. as a matter of fact, the honourable member for Bell Island said the same thing in a motion which was deleted. He is saying the same thing again now and I would ask for a retraction, Mr. Speaker. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I will not retract until we get the tape or Hansard so we can see exactly what it was the Premier said in his answer to a question that I put to him. HR. MOORES: I said, Mr.

Speaker, that the government would follow through with the points I pointed out that were in that letter from the union in Buchans, to the effect that we would be asking the union and the company to bargain in good faith and as good 301

February 15, 1973 Tape no. 103 Pagel - MRW corporate and labour citizens. That was the quotation and that is the government's position. MR. NEARY: Mr~ Speaker, on the point of order - MR. OTTENHEIMER: Wait until the honourable the Speaker recognizes one or the other. MR. ROBERTS: Let the honourable gentleman reply. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Let the honourable the Speaker recognize one or the other. MR. ROBERTS: Let the honourable gentleman reply. MR. OTTENHEIMER: Certainly I have no intention to interfere with it. MR. SPEAKER: The hon. member for St. Mary 1 s. MR.

OTTENHEIMER: On the point of privilege raised by the hon. the Premier - HR. MOORES: Point of order. HR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, point of order. MR. OTTENHEIMER: On a point of order. MR. ROBERTS: On a point of privilege at this stage, tht hon. the Premier has asked the gentleman from Bell Island if he will retract his statement. MR. OTTENHEIMER: It is on that point that I now wish - HR~ ROBERTS: I am speaking to the point of order, Mr. Speaker. HR. OTTENHEIMER: But, I was speaking first. The hon. member for Bell Island specifically said - MR. ROBERTS: Let me be heard to the point of order first. MR.

SPEAKER: Order please: MR. OTTENHEIMER: And such a statement is out of order., MR. ROBERTS: MR. SPEAKER: MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, ~.ay I speak on a point of order? The hon~ Leader of the Opposition~ Mr. Speaker, as I was saying, the Premi.er has asked the 302

February 15, 1973 Tape no. 103 Page 2 Mr~ Roberts honourable gentleman to retract the statement. The honourable gentleman said, "he was not sure what had been said. 11 The hon. Premier repeated his remarks and I think now the honourable gentleman, if he wishes to retract, should be given an opportunity and if not other steps will follow~ I do think my colleague should be given the opportunity to say whether or not he will do as the Premier has requested he do; namely withdraw the statement, which my colleague says - it seews that the Premier has misled the House.

The Premier has repeated his remarks as to what answer he gave in reply to the honourable gentleman's question. I think to conclude on the point of order, ray colleague should now be given the opportunity either to say he will withdraw or to say he will not and in either case certain results will follow, MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, I contend that the second answer the hon.

Premier gave was not what he said in the answer to the first question and his answer is inconsistent with the answer that the Minister of Manpower and Industrial Relations gave, Sir. 1 would like to hear the tape or see Hansard, see what it was precisely that the Premier said in his answer to the question that I put to him the first time because the second answer was different than the first. MR. MOORES: Mr. Speaker, speaking to the point of order, if I may, MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Premier~ MR.

MOORES: I would like to suggest that the hon. member for Bell Island would like to retract his statement that I mislead the House,until he has read Hansard and then he will be in a position to give a proper opinion himself. MR. NEARY: That is fair enough, Mr. Speaker. MR. MOORES: To withdraw itl MR. ROBERTS: Until - MR. NEARY: Until I see Hansardo MR, SPEAKER: The hon. member for Fogo. 303

February 15, 1973 Tape no. 103 Page 3 MR. WINSOR: May I direct a question to the hon~ Premier, arising out of an

article appearing in today's !!Evening Telegram,'' and arising from an interview on CBC by the hon. merrher for St. John's South, that he will recommend to the Premier that a Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs would not be appointed, would the hon. the Premier accept and take the honourable member's advice and not appoint that minister? MR. MOORES: Mr. Speaker, it is a privileged conversation but I cannot say that it is not the intention upon the recommendation of the member for St.

John's South - it is not the intention of the government in the foreseeable future to set up a specific department of intergovernmental affairs. MR. ROBERTS : A supplementary question, Mr. Speaker, the Premier referred to a privileged conversation, I assume it comes in betveen the gentleman from St~ John's South and himself. My colleague 1 s question, of course, is based upon an interview which the gentleman from St. John's South gave to the CBC last night on their "Here and NOw' 11 prqgramme. I am sure many honourable gentlemen saw it.

I would not want the Premier nor anybody else to think that those privileged conversations to which we have access (which are numerous) are,not by wire tapping, as the Minister of Justice has assured us. You know, the question arose out of a statements,ill-considered or not, but ~.ade by the gentleman from St. John ts South and I am sure many of us saw them on the television last night. They are in the papers again today, of course. On motion of the hon~ the Minister of Finance, a bill, 11

An Act Further To Amend The Department Of Finance Act, 11 re~d a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow~ 304

Februarv 15. 1973 Tane 104 l!H On motion of the honourah:ie the Minister nf Finance, "An Act Further To Amend The Deoartment Df Finance Act," rend a fi. rst time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the honourahle ~-!.nister nf fducntion, ,;An Act Further To A.1lend The flerartment Of Education And Youth Act," r1::ad a first time, ordered read a sec.oni::l time on tomorrni.,. On motion of the honourable the !.1Jn:lster nf ~tines, ~griculture And Resources. 0

An Act Pesne.cti.ng The Denartrnent fJf Fnrestrv And Agriculture, tomorrow. rend a first time, ordered read a sAcond time on On motion of the honourable the Pinister Of Hin1c,ter Of Municipal Affai rn ft.nd Housing 1 '',\n Act Resvecti.ng The fleriartment Of 'funicipal Affair~ and flousinp-," rend a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the honournhle the ~H.nLster Of Lnbour, "An Act 'Resoectinf The Department Of "'lannower And Industrial Relntfons," read a f1rst time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

On motion of the honourable th€' f,fjnister Df Supp]y And Serv:.lces, nAn Act Fesnec:tinc; The Denartment Of Tourism," read a fir.st time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the honourable Mr. Barry, ''An Act Pespecting The Department Of M'ines And Energy," read the Hnst time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the honourable the "1--1:I.nister Of the Economic Develon­ ment, 0

An Act Pespecting The Denartmcnt Of Industrial nevelopment,n read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. 3 D 5

February 15, 1973 Tape No. 105 NH - l On motion of the honourable the Minister of Health.A Bill, "An Act To Amend The Department Of Health Act, 11 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the honourable the Minister of Labrador Affairs~ A Bill, "An Act Respecting The Department Of Social Services,n read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the honourable the Minister of Public Works, A Bill, 11

An Act Respecting The Department Of Public Works And Services,n read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the honourable the Minister of Fisheries A Bill, ' 1

An Act Respecting The Department of Fisheries. 11 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the honourable the Minister of Provincial Affairs, A Bill, "An Act Respecting The Department Of Provincial Affairs And Environment, 11 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the honourable the Minister of Justice. A Bill, 11

An Act Further To Amend The Judicature Act," read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the honourable the Minister of Justice A Bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Criminal Injuries Compensation Act,'' read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the honourable the Minister of Justice~A Bill, nAn Act Further To Amend The Agreement Ratified, Confirmed And Adopted By And Set Forth In The

Schedule To The Leitch Gold Mines ~imited (Agreement) Act, 1964, And To Make Certain Statutory Provisions Relating To That Agreement,n read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow. On motion of the honourable the Minister of Finance~A Bill~ JjAn Act To Amend The Crown Corporations {Local Taxation) Act, 11 read a first time, ordered read a second time on to~-0rrow. 306

February 15. 1973 Tape 106 PK - l On Motion a hill. "An Act To Amend The Crown Corporations Local Taxation Act 11 , read a first time. ordered read a second time on tomorrow, ~Jr. Sneaker, with the permission of the House T would just like to revert to Notice of Hntions, to give notice of a. motion. }1R. SPJ{\KfP:..:, The honourable raemher has leave. MF.

CROSBIE: I give notice that I wtll on tomorrow ask leave to move the Hause into a Committee of the Whole to consider certain resolutions in relat1on to the granting of supplementary supply to Her Majesty for the financial year ending the 31st. day of !larch. 1973. ADDRESS IN REPLY MR •. SPEAKER: 'The honourable the menher for Jhmavista South. MR. J_._!'_:pB,_GAN: Mr, Speaker, in continuing this dehnte 1 recall leavin~ off talking on the fisheries and the fishery prohlems in my District of Bonavista South. I will say a few -Pords on rural development.

My ROVernrnent's establishment of a rural development department in my view is one of the hetter things that happened as a result of the restruc.tinp, of this government. For too long ve have seen neglect with regard to rural Newfoundland. For too long we have seen small rural, viable communities forgotten about. And finally we have a department all in its ot,;t1 to look after the problems of rural Newfoundland hut most important of all to develop rural Ncwfounrllnnd.

I would also like to point out that the appointment of a man who lives in rural Newfoundland, who knows rural Newfoundland and has proved himself in rural Newfoundland, is an excellent choice for the position of minister of that department. I speak of the honourable memher for Trinity South. MR. ~GpDEARD: I thought you were talking ahout Na.in. MR. HORGAN: Nain. You are in Labrador,unfortunately. The Rural Development Authority is making loans availahle to small business people, small business people who had little or no hope hefore tryin~ to obtain assistance for the grants or loans to get a small 307

February 15, 1973 Tape 106 PK - 2 "business going. I am very pleased that quite a few loans have heen already made to sawmill operators in Bonn.vista South enabling them to expand their business, not only to expand their business hut to also start new business enterprises, I am firmly convinced that the sawm:i.11 industry on the Bonavista Peninsula 1B .a very potential big industry. It has been neglected :in the past to the point vhere not even the existinµ forest access roads were kept open during the winter months.

But now we see a hope for the sawmill people, for the loggers and the lumbering men and this is very important to areas like Bonavista South. Now upon ~Eking loans available to these sawmill operators there has to be a second phase and that second j:J1ase is makin~ ~ure that the sawTi1ill people and the lumhering men and the loggers can get access to the timber stands.

That is vhy I am pleased over recent weeks in meetin~ with the officials in the Department of Fore5try and Agriculture th.at this government are embarking upon a forest access road construction programme which will work in coordination or liaison if you wish with the Rural Development Authority. But if we are going to huild forest access roads, if -we are going to open up timher stands to the small business man in the rural areas, there is another aspect that we must also look at. that is the conservation of and the supervision of the cutting of these timher stands.

I am a little disappointed that an item mentioned in last year's Throne Speech, in the last General Assembly. the Thirty-Fifth General Assembly. thnt my government's intentinns were to set up a conservation corp,which was an excellent idea I sincerely hope that my government will take this step in this coming year and set up this conservntldn corp which will see the combination of fishery wardens and game wardens, forest rangers, combining in one force, if you wish, to see that the conservation of our forestry and wildlife is maintained. 3.0 8

February 15, 1973 Tape 106 PK~ 3 I would also like to see more field staff in our regional offices, especially in the field of agriculture and forestry. I think that is of vital importance: 3 0 9

February 15. 1973 Tape 107 JM - 1 because there are men makinp. applications I know in the past,for example~ for the construction of the forest access road or for the clearing of a piece of land for agricultural purposes and been waiting as long as three, four, sometimes six months before eventually a field man visits him to find out what he is applyin~ for. So I think it is of vital importance to these men in rural areas if they have men to get information from an expertee's advice, if you wish, men established in regional offices around the province.

I have also with regard to loggers and people supplying pulpwood etc. concerning mills around the province, I have also written to the Federal Government<,which is a Federal Government jurisdiction,if you wish)ask.ing that the Unemployment Insurance Act be reviewed or revised, if you wish, to include these men who cut the logs and sell them to sawmill business people or to a pulp mill.that they be included under the Unemployment Insurance Act the same way as fishermen are today. The fishermen catch the fish and sell them to different merchants and obtains stamps for same.

I see no reason why a logger cannot cut his logs in the wintertime and in the summertimE: when he is sometimes unable to gee down in the country to cut the logs he could be drawing unemployment insurance bene.fl.ts. I have written the hon. Minister of Manpower and Immigration on this matter requesting it be given consideration and I certainly hope it will be given consideration. Now one of the most importnnt departments to my district at the present time is the Department of Transportation and Communication formerly known as the Department of Highways.

Now the roads going down through Bonavista South~where we see a total of approximately fifteen ' communities such as Southern Bay. Princeton~ Summerville, Plate Cove East and West, Open Hall, Red Cliff, Kin~s Cove, Knights Cove and on down through to Bonavista, for the past couple or three years they have been of the impression that they have been or are going to be 310

February 15, 1973 Tape 107 JM - 2 forfZotten because of fact that there is a brand new road, DREE road if you wish, going doYTI. through the peninsula to Bonavista.known as the Cabot Highway. Thank God last year that road was completed with all pavement right to Bonavista! But these other communities going down to the shore - A.~ HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. MORGAN: The Federal Government's, not the Provincial Liberal Government's. AN HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. MORGAN; The Federal under OREE. Anyway. Mr.

Speaker, the road is now completely paved but the other road going down to the southern part of Bonavista Bay,which is of vital importance to these sixteen or fifteen communities, 1 am proud to be able to stand in this hon. House and say that my government is now doin~ an engineering survey on that road. I know it is going to be of major cost as it is a major construction job. But my government is now doing an engineering survey in the hope that when funds are available, it cannot all he done in the one year, Mr.

Speaker, I fully realize that, but the fact it is going to get started, the fact that my government is showing the initiative and getting the thing started on behalf of these communities on that shore is very pleasing to me and it is good news to all these residents in the communities on the south side of Bonavista Bay. Of course there are many roads in Bonavista South as well as the Route No. 10 ,known as 11 going down to the shore': the road from Salvage to Eastport, from Winter Brook to Jamestown to Lethbridge~ from Kennys Cove to Musgravetown there all these roads that need upgrading and eventually paving.

It takes a number of years to get them all done but I am hopeful that my submission to the Department of Highway's officials and to the minister that with priorities in regard to these potential projects the)~ Hill get the consideration they deserve in the future two or three years. 311

February 15, 1973 Tape 107 JM - 3 There is one little sore point may be with me with regard to that department and that is not the fault of anybody in the department~ I think it is a fault that we must correct and that is that we now have much outdated equipment. I~~ sincerely convinced that my government must invest substantially in replacing some of the outdated equipment we have in that department.

The maintenance division which,this winter alone I have seen cases where communities such as Open Hall and Red Cliff in my district were closed for as lon~ as five days mainly because of the equipment being broken down. So I would recommend strongly to my government that they invest a very substantial sum of money and replace this outdated equipment. The other aspect of the highways, the maintenance.which is a sore point with me as well,is the fact that because of the lack of equipment and lack of good equipment the department has been forced to if you wish, to centralize its service.

I disagree with that entirely because if the highways are going to do an efficient maintenance job especially in rural areas like Bonavista South and with scatter communities like Bonavista South they must have decentralized servicing in the Department of Highways or Transportation and Communication.

So I am hopeful that after the funds are available and equipment purchased that this policy of centralizing services in the Department of Highways, maintenance division, will be chan~cd and it will be changed and the depots that were removed from the district last year like the Lethbridge depot and the Eastport deport,which were relocated outside of my districttwill come back again and establish there and provide the proper kind of maintenance that these communities deserve~ Now, Mr. Speaker, 11.q HON. MEMBER: (Inaudible). MR. '!ORGAN: It will,yes.

I would like to say a few words on the Manpower and Industrial Relations Department or manpower,period?if you wish. With regard to the training and the type of training technical training, 3.12

February 15, 1973 Tape 107 JM - 4 if you wish, of people leaving high school and going on to either university or vocational training schools.that this training must relate, and I repeat it must relate to the manpower needs of this province. to the labour market. I refer in particular to the two examples during the peak construction period of the Come by Chance Oil Refinery and during the peak construction of the Linerboard Mill in Stephenville.

We as Newfoundlanders had to go outside~ if you wish the employers had to go outside of the province to find skilled tradesmen mainly because in the past we have not had a training programme co-ordinated accordin~ to the need of the labour market. So I would strongly recommend to this hon. House and to the Minister of Industrial Relations or Manpower and Industrial Relations that a special division be set up in that department and it would have two main functions.

Number one would be to keep a constant check on the present and future needs of the labour market in this province and to relate these needs to the vocational training schools and technical schools in the province. In other words,havc our training co-ordinated with the needs of the labour market. The second function that I would like to see that division responsible for would be to provide a counselling and guidance service to these hi~h 313

February 15. 1973 Tape No. 108 school guidance who a.re going out into the world and not knowing where they are going in many cases. They have little or no guidance, little or no counselling. I think it is of utmost importance for our young people to be able to avail of some kind of counselling service as to what their profession is going to be, what their trade is going to be and what training they are going to receive or wish to receive. Thia would be the main second function, number two function if you wish, of that new division in tha! department.

It is unfortunate that the federal government's manpower counselling is not doing, in my view, an adequate job because if they were there would be no need for the provincial government to provide this kind of counselling service. I would say that from my past experience in dealing with Canada Manpower, the federal department.that an applicant makes an application for employment, it is filed and it is forgotten about until the applicant returns to the office to find out if there is a job ava:Uable.

In other words, there is no major attempt to go out and find the right kind of employment for the individual applicant and that is the reason why I would like to see my government, the provincial government,get involved in the counselling and guidance and seeking of job opportunities for these skilled and technically trained individuals. With regard to the manpower needs and the training, I will say a few brief words on the university.

For example we are now building a new engineering school at Memorial University and without nny hesitation I disagree with that construction because I t,hink it is at the expense 1at a time when we cannot afford it, i.t is at the expense of the needs of elementary and secondary schools around this province. We already embarked on the construction of a new medical school and university which is a total cost of $45 million and we are going to bear the cost of $15 million. But I think that because

February 15, 1973 Tape No. 108 NM - 2 it was down to a point when this new government, the Progressive Conservation Government~took over power and to avail of the federal funds that were available to us, we had no choice butt 0 go ahead with that project, which we are now doing. But the engineering school was a different situation, Hr. Speaker. I personally would like to see a few questions answered 1like how many engineers can this province employ five years, ten years from now? That is one very important question.

If we are going to invest millions of dollars in the new engineering school and maybe in a few years time there will be no jobs available for these graduates, we are very unfortunate, especially as I said before, when we are crying, there is a crying need a.round this province for new elementary and secondary schools. Mr. Speaker, when I stood in this honourable House the last session, there was a very important problem in Bonavista South and that was of the medical facilities and services.

I would say at this stage, with regard to medical staff in the Bonavista South District and the Bonavista Peninsula, it was never so good before, unqualified~ We now have six doctors stationed and practicing on the Bonavista Peninsula and never I think in the history of that peninsula did we see so many qualified doctors practicing there. This was a very important need and I would like to express my thanks to this government on behalf of my constituents,to a Minister of Health who is very sincere in his job and it may be because of his efforts that we now have six doctors on the peninsula.

In the coming spring we will have two dentists in Bonavista, six doctors and two dentists, Mr. Speaker, which is a big improvement over the past. Another very important factor with regard to the improvement of medical services and facilities is the new accommodations with regard to hospital facilties at Bonavista. There will be a new hospital building at Bonavista. There is no question mark on that, It might not all be completed in one year. It is going to be a very 315

February 15, 1973 Tape No. 108 NH - 3 costly construction. But there will be a new hospital in Bonavista and that is going to supply a tremendous need to my district. That, Mr~ Speaker, I am very thankful for on behalf of my constituents. Mr. Speaker~ I would like to say a few words with regard to the services that my government is providing now or contemplating on providing communities and areas where there is no form of local government. This is where the role of an MHA comes in.

Many questions have been asked about the role of a Member of the House of Assembly and I think this is the important role that he could play. If a member is going to know his area, know his district~ if he is the right kind of member he will consult with the people continuously and if he is that kind of an }ll1A, then there is no objection, there is no reason why the government officials in the various departments should not consult with that member before they start any projects with regard to development in these communities and areas.

It is also going to give the opportunity to the people to put an imput in the government,if you wish, through their rnernher. This is of utmost importance.

If we are going to be truly democratic, and let us hope that we will, this is the only kind Newfoundland deserves, then we must give the people the opportunity to have a say, have a say in the affairs of this province, to have a say in what they are going to receive from government in development and improvements in the communities, whether it is the establishment of recreational facilities or water supplies or tourist facilities, park accornmodations,etc~, no matter what it may be, people must have a say.

This is the role of the HHA as far as I am concerned, where the people can give an imput and should be giving an imput to government through the MHA. It sort of riles me at times when I recognize the fact that some government officials do not consult the HHA before some action is taken in his respective district. If they are going to represent 316

February 15, 1973 Tape No. 108 NM - 4 11X" number of thousands of people, department officials should consult with them at all times regarding the development of their districts.

That is the reason why I welcome the announcement made recently, I am not sure if it were made in the honourable House or not, I know it uas made publicly by the Premier that there would be committees set up of members of the House of Assembly, This does not mean just the members of the government side, the backbenchers, it should mean all members of the House of Assembly~ Glve them n role to play, give them a role to play in the formulation of government policy. This is where they can give the imput,if you wish, on behalf of their respective constituents. Now, Mr.

Speaker, I have spoken in this Throne Speech debate and I think, as I pointed out in the beginning of my speech, that this honourable House of Assembly is a place of dignity, we must 317

February 15~ 1973, Tape 109, Pnge 1 -- epb keep it that way. An M.H~A1 s role is a responsibility role. A responsibility to his constituents, u responsibility to his province. It is a House of decisions. That is why we are here, to nake decisions, decisions effecting thousands of Newfoundlanders. If each M.ILA. is to be a leader and he should be a leader to his nxu number of thousands of constituents, he should act accordingly. I have used my responsibility in this speech to speak openly, truthfully and factually. But, Mr. Speaker, 1 have spoken with sincerity on behalf of my constituents.

As we embark on this second year of the :Progressive Conservative Gove.rrJ:1ent, I sincerely hope that the next few years will mean action on the part of my government for dcvelopBent. of this beloved province and for the benefit of all Newfoundlanders. Thank you. MR. A.B.PECKFORD: Mr. Speaker, I wish to nddress myself to the Speech from the Throne which in ny opinion ts one of the most realistic and pragmatic docur.ients ever presented to this honourable House.

It indicated in general tcrmsi for that is what the Throne Speech is supposed to bc~the government's intention of policy in the various sectors of our economy. It is more than distressing to hear so little said about the many commendable ideas contained in it.

In the restructuring that has been now finalized, ue find a whole new direction in the zovcrnmcnt's sensitivity to various areas of government, By the mere fact thnt. the government has seen fit to have a separate Department of Tourism, to have a separate Department of Agriculture and Forestry, to have a separate Department of Social Assistance, to have a separate Department that emphasizes youth and to have a separate department that emphasizes cor:wnunications, one that emphasizes mines and energy, one thnt emphasizes rural development, indicates to me in most certain terms, this government's intention to grapple with the problems of the 1970's. 318

February 15, 1973, Page 2, Tape 109 -- apb Mr. Speaker~ throughout the past two or three years, the Progressive Conservative Party of this province. has contended that one of the most important tcnantR in its platform was the stimulation of the rural econoray. When this party took over the government, they wasted little time in makinp; good this commitnent, for, }!r.

Speaker, the birth of the Rural Development Authority marks the first tine in our history when a concrete, tangible, determined effort has been made by goverrnnent to assist the rurnl areas of this province, Its unqualified success to date confirms the governrnent 1 s belief that without vibrant rural development in Newfoundland, we cannot expect to flourish as a province. Mr. Speaker, in my own District of Green Bay, the closing of two mines.in 1971, was thought to herald economic depression in that area for many years to come. However, nothing could be further from the truth.

The infusion of capitnl from the Rural Development Authority and the start up of woods operations for the Labrador Linerboard ?1111 has me.ant hundreds of jobs for the people of Green Bay and has succeeded in giving renewed confidence to the people for a bright economic future. !-ir. Speaker, this is what I call nc tion which the Opposition chooses to ignore. Hr. Speaker, this goverrunent is not afraid of Labrador, rather it recognizes the myriad and varied problems that exist in that vast area. Consequently, the govenment appointed a royal commission to investigate and report on these problems.

This government recognizes and sympathizes with the fishermen who live on the Coast of Southern and Northern Labrador. It is this Area of Labrador, that is the fishermens 1 area of Labrador,that has been most neglected over the past two decades. We realize though, that for true progress to occur in L'Anse au Loop or Charlottetown or Fox Harbour or Nain or anywhere else on the coast, we must have all the information that can be obtained. Hence the reason for the royal commission. This is action by government that 319

February 15, 1973, Tape 109, Page J -- apb the oppositon wishes to ignore. Hr. Speaker, I have not even scratched the surface. What will make this province prosper and become great, is when we tackle with those vital sectors of our economy namely, forestry, fishing, mining and agriculture. For decades, Mr, Spenker, this province has been hampered in its forest development because large tracts of our timber have been in the control of a few companies. To have a flourishing saw1nilling industry, to move towards the establishment of wood working factories.it will be necessary to have tracts of timber avuilable.

It is pleasing to note,thereforc, that this government are presently working in co-operation with the Federal Govermnent in this task force in forestry to bring rational policy to an area so neglected in the past. This, Mr. Speaker, is action which the opposition chooses to ignore. Mr. Speaker, we cannot burn our fishinr, boats, we cannot forget our fishery, hoping that the problems will silently steal nway. You cannot go after massive industrial projects to the detriment of the fishing industry. We must recognize the present world situation in that industry.

We cannot permit the other grent fishing nations of the world to have a monoply on our fish resources. Therefore, 1-lr. Speaker, I am proud to be part of a govern.'1'.ent that announces a $40 million programme to modernize our fishing industry. Simultaneously, Fr. Speaker, we rnust recognize and identify those areas where the inshore fishery still has a profitable future. That in itself is a tremendous task. Hence I am plensed,in this regard, to see that in the past year a record fifteen million dollars have been spent through the Fisheries Loan Board construction prograrnme. We owe a great debt, Mr.

Speaker, to the fishermen of this province. rheir unceasing labours over the past decade and even centuries are in a large measure responsible for where we are today. Their hard work and indomitable spirit have i,.ngrained into the .320

February 15, 1973, Tape 109, Page 4 -- apb Newfoundland personality a will to persevere and succeed, an attribute, Mr. Speaker, that I hope we shall never lose. This, Mr. Speaker, is action which the oppositon chooses to i~norc. How tragic it is, Hr. Speaker, to scan a map of the mineral concessions of this province where companies were allowed to t1.e up large tracts of our land~ignorinc the responsibility they had to explore and develop. But, }tr. Speaker, a new day is daw'Ding.

The Speech from the Throne indicates that this governJnent intend to introduce a modified concession system permitting clnin-- staking. This will make it possible for compani12s hitherto reluctant to come to this province to explore and develop those minerals that must be in the soil of this province. This is action, Mr. Speaker, that the opposition chooses to ignore. 321

February 15, 1973 Tape no. 110 Pagel - MRW Mr~ Speaker, there are areas of this province which can be developed for agricultural purposes. The famer is very often the forgotten producer in this province buti Sir 1 already farmers are being assisted to further develop their arable land through the Rural Development Authority. In addition we see that this government intend to tackle constructively one of the main problems facing farmers in this province; namely that of equipment and land clearing.

The establishment of farm equipment banks throughout this province will greatly assist the agricultural sectors of our economy and help them become a source of employment in our province~ This is action, Mr. Speaker, that the opposition cannot accept. It is heartening to note, Mr. Speaker, that this government will not be rail­ roaded into industrial projects which might mean little return for the province. On numerous occasions the government have indicated their intention in the development of the Lower Churchill and no doubt such development will become a reality but only on the government's terms. Mr.

Speaker, this is surely a new direction for this province, This surely is a rational attitude to take~and I am sure it is the wish of the vast majority that if and when industrial projects do start,it will only be when this province is assured that it will reap the maximum. benefits possible. Mr. Speaker, this is a sane and rational policy. It is a far­ cry from the irrational and madening announcements so characteristic of the past decade. Thia, Mr. Speaker, I contend is action too but action. no doubt difficult for the opposition to compreh€nd. Hr.

Speaker, my first reaction to the remarks made by the hon. member for Bell Island concerning education was amusement. Such 322

February 15, 1973 Tape no. 110 Page 2 reaction soon turns to tragedy and I am sure, Mr. Speaker, that the remarks were a constant embarrassment to all the other members on the other side. To state, i.e., that many of the educational problems of North America can be directly linked to a mad rush for teachers' certificates,in the case a total lack of knowledge, yea ignorance on the part of the hon. member for Bell Island. What does the hon. member for Bell Island mean when he says: 11 common-sense teaching. 11 There is a phrase, Mr. Speaker. There is knowledge of teaching methods.

That is the panacea to all our educational problems - common-sense teaching.

Let all the officials of the Department of Education, let all the superintendents of boards throughout this province, let all the principals of the schools and all the teachers in these schools take note: The answer to our educational ills in North America has been solved in one tidy, neat phrase - "common-sense teaching. 11 It would do well for the honourable member to remember that a little knowledge is dangerous and that our educational ills relating to teacher qualification, teacher/pupil ratio, curriculum development and the primary level to the university level are problems on which many of our educational experts disagree.

Mr. Speaker, being a former teacher, it is heart wanning to see that this government intend to introduce the long overdue collective bargaining legislation relating to the teachers of this province. This, Mr. Speaker is action which the opposition wishes to forget. Mr. Speaker, I wish to voice my concern with the very serious inflationary situation that exists across this nation. It is saddening to note, i.e., that in the first six months of 1972, the consumer price index rose by 5.8 per cent, chiefly as a result of higher food prices.

February 15 1 1973 Tape no. 110 Page 3 I am sure every one in this province hopes that the Federal Liberal Government in Ottawa will take steps to ensure that the spiralling increase can be stabilized. All the strikes and demands by labour for higher wages are of no avail if .:;imultaneously prices continue to skyrocket.

Mr~ Speaker, I maintain that over the past twenty-three years, this province has progressed in supplying services, highroads, communications, water and sewer facilities, etc. or what is commonly known as infrastructure, but without creating the corresponding employment opportunities~ especially in rural Newfoundland.so that this infrastructure. can be maintained. In other words we only proceeded on one front~ creating,.therefore, an embarassing debt situation and hence the difficulty in now providing those employment opportunities that are essential to bring new dollars into the province. This is not to say 1 Mr.

Speaker, that such services were not essential and are not essential. It does indicate, Sir, that we put too many eggs in one basket. With the policies outlined in the Speech from the Throne, I am confident that this tragic situation can in years to come be corrected so that we will be able to stand with our sister provinces in ensuring that if our province genuinely progresses so does Canada. Mr. Speaker, this government is a government of action,­ a-c-t-i-o-n, (Where is the Leader of the Opposition?) but a different kind of action than has been the case in the past. Therefore, Mr.

Speaker, I fully support and endorse both policies and programmes outlined in the Throne Speech and firmly believe thnt in the realization of these goals our province can find itself within the main stream of Confederation. That is not all, of course, Mr. Speaker, that is in the Speech from the Throne, not nearly, although that is enough to persuade any reasonable, common-sense individual 1 in this province today, that this government is a government of action. Let the facts speak for themselves, 324

February 15, 1973 Tape no. 110 Page 4 In addition, Mr. Speaker, there are many other things in the Throne Speech which, in themselves, could take up quite a bit of discussion and debate in speeches in this honourable House. I did not mention, i.e., the Forest Access Roads Programme that has been greatly expanded and as a matter of fact there is a great contribution to the economy of the Green Bay District right at the present time. Over the last six or seven months, one access road has been put in now, supplying about fifty or six jobs.

A new access road down on the Burlington Peninsula or the Baie Verte Peninsula which is to service the loggers and sawmill operators down there will, undoubtedly, create another forty or fifty jobs. If, of course, we are going to really try and develop our forest industriesrthis is what has to be done. A private sawmill operator or a private pulpwood operator just cannot afford to put these roads in and it is the government's responsibility no doubt to do so~ I think this is a very worthwhile programme.

As the hon. member for Bonavista South mentioned on the Forest Access Roads Programme 1 that it was going to be done in collaboration with the Rural Development Authority. This government also, Mr~ Speaker, from the Speech from the Throne, indicate.sits concern and continuing negotiations in trying to get something done with deep water seaports.

I remember back in 1953 or 1954, when I lived in Marystown,which was then only a community of about 1,000 people at the most I suppose, there was a lot of talk at that time (I was in elementary school) about Mortier Bay and the great development that was going to come about and I am still waiting on it today, Mr. Speaker. It goes to show that great announcements and so on about something going to start up really do not mean very much - that keyword that'is a paxt of this administration, ~lanning and behind the scenes work will pay off in the end. way.

That will only be a short political gain if it is done any other In line with the government 1 s policy to set up a department of mines 325

February 15, 1973 Ta.pe 111 PK - l nnd energy which recognizes the importance that energy cil and gas and other minerals are going to take in this province. The government also through the Speech from the Throne indicates that it is going to set up an offshore petroleum advisory council so that we can he. ready if and when oil is struck off our coast. All indications point to some sort of a discovery happening out the.re. Of course that vill he a great day for Newfoundland if and when this does occur,and will bring in new dollars. This is the whole point I think, }fr.

Speaker~ when we talk about,even my small bit of knowledge on economics, that it is no good to produce services and to do all the other tli'ings that every individual in this province wants, if at the sn.r:ie time ue do not have the corresponding neY dollars to come in to take care of those services that we are going to supply. It is only ludicrous.

It is ahsurd to provide $2 million water and sewerage project for some town down in Ray de Verte District or down in my district or do¼71 in White Bay South or anywhere of this province~ if we cannot see that we are going to have the "Xn number of dollars needed to cover these services. Many of these communities, as some member mentioned the other day where we are talking about $210 million or $300 rrillion projects, w'hat happens? Are the people in these municipalities going to be able to pay for the cost of these services ?

It is not alone good to say that they need water,and I am one of the first to go along with them, and need sewerage and so on; the corresponding cost on the government and on the people in these communities is a factor that has to be taken into consideration, It is an added problem when we consider the fact that we want to keep many of the rural parts of Newfoundland,that it is essential that we do.

Many parts of my district as I mentioned~the Burlington Pe'ninsula, there we had three communities.Smith's Harbour, Burlington and Hi<ldle Arm, it can be a very vibrant and progressive area hecause of the forest resources that exist only about four miles inside of it. But at the same time if we took those three communitiesywhich would have a total population of 1400 people."to provide the water and sewerage 326

February 15, 1973 Tape 111 Pl".. - 2 facilities that these people are going to demand over the next two or three years it is going to be vitally necessary that each and every individual that lives in those communities that can and is ahle to work has a job, so that they are bringing in these new dollars, so that they are going to he able to pay for these services that they are going to desire. This is what has to be done,of course. ;:;o it must be a twofold thing.

As we go ahead on employment opportunities and rural development this will also enhance our opportunities of heing ahle to provide the asststance needed to build these vater and sewerage facilities and other facilities that these towns should and must have. But it is a very, very big prohlem, Mr. Speaker, and one whJch torments me somewhat hecause T have varions connnunities in my district.

The other prohlem wtth this husiness of providing water and sewera~e facilities is the fact that many of the communities that are going to remain over the next two or three decades are communities that are on the coastline and are situated on one solid bed of rock. Now you try and put a water and sewerar,e system down in that community, which will cost $1 million or $2 million. Here you have this added problem.

At the same time as I am cognizant of and sympathetic to and sensitive to and all the other phrases that a politican uses from time to time, to the problems of a given co:rmnunity and their right and desire to have a water and sewerage system, at the same time I also realize,with that minute bit of knowledge that I have and have mana~ed to accumulate over the last sixteen years, twenty years, twenty-five years,that it is a real prohlemi:; that governments have to face, that is perhaps the only way that we are going to do anything with it in the long run - and surely this mUF1t be our first priority - hy creating as many jobs as we can in rural Newfoundland thereby bringing in new dollars which will then hring in more tax dollars to the province and hence perhapf; a better opportunity 327

February 15,1973. Tape 111 PK - 3 for government to act in a positive way on the demands of people in these c:mm:nuni ties. Mr. Speaker, another very important vital statistic: that I have before me is that between 1960 and 1970, 39,400 people left this province, 39,400 people left this province.

Hopefully through a rural development programme and through the Newfoundland and Labrador Development Corporation, which was also mentioned in the Speech from the Throne and which we are now instituting and getting it into action, this exodus can be retarded or stopped some way because there is no way this province. with all its best laid plans of mice and men, are going to be able to he proceeded with, because what .~;re we losing, the 39 0 400 people.? ! have not a breakdown of it, Mr.

Speaker, but I hasten to add that of the 39,400 a goodly number, by far the majority are young people, It never ceased to amaze me when I was teaching~ Hr. Speaker, to find out of thirty-five or forty students in the class. those people who dropped out or even graduated from high school and you asked them what they were going to do? What their future plans were? What did they have in their minds that they wanted to do?

"Go to Toronto." "I want to go to Toronto." This has to be curbed and perhaps this is a way to do it, hopefully. through the Vocational Educational Programme, an expanded programme in that way plus our university, plus some development there. I think that is something else, it is an attitude abroad that has permeated our,whole system, our whole soul for the last twenty-three years and l do not know why. It is no part of me really, that this inferio:t:ty complex that we have, not only if a St.

John's ~an goes to the mainland he often sort of feels inferior or something - the mere fact that I am saying it indicates there must be some credence to it, I suppose~ How else did~I get it? Did I get it erroneously or what? This is also true when you talk about the "bay 11 and the "town". It is even true now if you talk about Lewisporte and Comfort Cove. It is even true now if you talk about Springdale and 328

February 15, 1973 Tape 111 Pr - 4 Little Bay or J:loherts Ann. It i:s true if you talk ahout St. Anthony versus St. Anthony Bite. It is true if you talk ahout Deer Lake and Cormack perhaps. It is true if you talk about Burgen and Grey River and so on all around the province, Marystow--n and John the flay. Fverywhere in the province,you even get it dov.'Tl on the rep-ional level where the children and the people of Springdale have a certain attitude towards the smaller community just outside, He reust try and encourage our young people I suggest. Mr. Speaker, to have a positive attitude towards it.

And of course.,talking about that, Mr. Speaker, the same thing holds true for a lot of the occupations and vocations. I think primarily of the fishermen. He are always goinr out of our way try to say fishinr, is a great life. I do not know if that is the rifht approach to take, Hr. Speaker. We have sort of flogged that to death, almost, hut there has always heen this opinion. I do not know if it came from years aito, when we were told to burn our boats. 1 do not know. I do not think it is as simple as thatt but this has developed.

Look at Tceland and then look at Norway and some of the other great fishing nations of the world, where a fisherman is looked upon in such high esteem. Perhaps it is hecau~e we have had the influx from North America, especially the United States, where we have had so many professional people and so on, with fancy talk and fancy clothes and fancy cars and so on, that this has hrought up this attitude. But it is a very erronous and wrong attitude to have. The one thing, Mr.

Speaker. that always ho the rs me -- it must he a rush, in our rush for development, in our rush to he a province that can stand up to any other province, a province which has just as much as any other province, as we start going on thifi way and in this direction we must do - what happens to our own unique personality. mann~rs of speech that we have~that we have in our rural parts of Newfoundlandi There have been attempts made through university I know lingu1stics department and others too, and the people in sociology to do studies nn various communities in Newfoundland .and areas ahout it. 329

February 15, 1973 Tape 111 PK - 5 Mt.

Speaker, I contend that if we r:o ahead and lose that one thing that the tourist are looking for, you know, not only the typical, physicial Newfoundland community which 1s one thing I which you can in Pegp,y's Cove, Nova Scotia somcw'l:1-1re~but the people - I think that we get many of our tourists to this province simply hecause they want to come and live among the people of Newfoundland because there is something different, because of our insular position, because of the way our history and so on developed. that t-1e have something different about us, we are hospitahle, we are exuberant and all the other characteristics. you know -let us pat ourselves on the hack, If we lose that in Hrs.

Jnnes 1 dot-rn in Bibb is Covet to have her deep freeze anci to ret her carpet on her floor and all the other amenities 330

Feb. 15, 1973. Tape 112 IB- 1 that she demands and desires just as much as anybody in suburbia St. John's. if at the same time she loses that character which is distinctively Newfoundland, to be a Newfoundland woman, but try to put on airs of being like the St. John's lady or the Toronto Lady, if we lose that surely we are going to lose a valuable rPsource on which nobody can put a dollar sign and from an academic point of view I think it would be, I think we would have to be very, very careful in that regard. Also, of note, Mr. Speaker, to stop my rambling somewhat and get back to the Throne Speech.

I remember last year in the estimates, I think it was for the Department of Education, Mr. Speaker, there was some mention made at that time about allowing far more dollars and cents to the children out of the province. There is another word for it too, Mr. Speaker, and I can not think of it iust now, that educators use sometimes to describe the underprivileged child. There is another word that they use for it. The exceptional child, yes, meaning those physically handicapped and so on.

More money was allotted under last years budget·and estimates than had been done in five or six years before that and I think it is a tremendous thing. I note with interest and verify to the fullest in the Speech from the Throne where the government actually took notice of the physically handicapped and their attention to this area of education if you want, and I think this is very, very important that this be done. Mr.

Speaker, we talk about exceptional children and so on: The other thing in our education process which is often missing is that within our schools today, in our normal school programme today, the experts say that about three to five per cent of children normal day-school children, do have some kind of hearing or eye defect and very often we find that many of those students are unsuccessful chiefly because of the defects and not through any mental 331

February 15, 1973. Tape 112 retardation or other things that occur. That is a point of great concern hut I only emphasize the point here, Hr. Speaker, that it is good to see that the government is sensitive to the smaller group of people in the province, minority group of people in the province who have a particular prohlem, unique problem which needs to be arrested and thingsidone for them. Also, Mr. Speaker, for three or four years now or longer.

I suppose ever since about 1962 or 1963, since I have been more aware of the things around me than previous and going to the university over here, mention has been made from time to time about regional colleges throughout thls province. Regional colleges in the sense of colleges to provide post secondary education for a two year period and from there they could go on to the more central and the larger university complex to procedd to their degree, in post graduate work, T 11otice this with interest and I hope that I allow that the government intends this year to go ahead and establish the first regional college.

I am not the Minister of Education, Sir, and therefore IB - 2 I can unt say where. I am only speaking now particularly. on the principle that they are going to go ahead and create a college. I have no intention, right now, to get into the hurly-burly of some of my colleagues over here one of whom might become rather violent if I said one place and the other person if 1 said the other. The principle of establishing a regional college somewhere in this province~ unfortunately, it can not be Labrador at this time which mighe be something to be looked into by the way in the next couple of years.

Let us hope that we can arrest that situation before it arises. I think it is very important and my appointment is going to be, Mr. Speaker, that 1.t is prudent that we only establish one regional college at this time to fully ascertain the ramifications 332

Februarv 15, 1073 Tane 112 IB-3 of a regional college in a given region to see hoP the programme develones, to see how the students react to this kind of programme because it ,,Jill be new to them, to see hO'w the faculty and staff of this new institution works out.

There are many and varied problems connected with it and if we went on full-scale basis nnd said, ·we are r.oing to estahlish this year 1 'or made the statement that we are going to establish in the next year and a--half or two vears four regional colleges or five regional colleges and went ahead simul­ taneouslv with the construction of all of them only to find out three or four vears from now that well, nerhans we onlv need two and perhaps it just does not pan out in this given situation. It i.s difficult to say hut it surely should assist a lot of penple f 1 think it is suonosed to go on the West Coast, Mr.

Speaker~ and I imagine it will keep down the cost af education for a lot of budding r,raduates out of h:.l.gh school inntead of having to come to St. John's and board and all the rest of it although I realize that some of them will he from St. Anthony's~ some be from Port Aux Basques or whetever but it will still he n cut-dovn on their costs of their first two years in university, It might make a hit more personal atm6sphere as rir;ht now the university over here is gettinp, a hit too lar~e and too offical and impersonal. It is always a good cliche" to use things that happen when universities get too large.

We m:i.ght be heading in that direction and this could help to atimy that kind of a situation and atmosphere from occuring. So much on the regional college. Hr. Speaker, another point that was mentioned in the Soeech From the Throne which I am particularly interested in,is redistribution because, as we see now in the federal scene and so on • I think that governments in general tend, especially now in the federal case, to look upon rediRtribution and the formation of districts, whether they 333

February 15, 1973 Tape 112 IB-4 he federal or provincial, in too narrow n light~ What I mean by thnt is that the idea of geography, especially in the Newfound- land sit:uat:f.on, is one thnt must take top priority in any consideration by any commission or by any board on how you are going to redistribute the districts in this province.

It goes without saying that when you get into a district which onlv has perhaps six, seven or eight thousand voters that at the same time the member for that district must travel one hundred or two hundred miles in order to get an;,rwhere with this, I think geography must be a very big factor in the determining of what is to he a district and what is not to be a district. It is with u little sadness that I view the federal scene.

I cannot f!nC too many advocating n greater emphasis on geography 1.n determining the number of districts in a given countrv or given province but I n.m glad to see that :f.t is coming about. I think that 1.t is overdue in the Province and honefullv we will see something on that in the next year and a -half or two vears. Of course, Hr. Speaker. when we took over ~vhen thiE pro­ gressive C:mservativt Partv took over government, we found outselves in a Pind financiallv and I h;,.ve to say, ?-1 r, Speaker, that I am extremelv proud of the way the Hnerboard situat:i.or has he.en handled. I think the hon.

Minister of F.inance has been mostlv involved in that, t Ir:. that not true ?)from the time the government took it over and I think that most Newfoundlanders are haupy that the government stepped in when thev did~, 1.§ince that time I have seen the Labrador Linerboard Complex come a.long to 334

February 15, 1973 Tape 113 JM - 1 reality and now the beginning of the production of linerboard for overseas markets. That is a tremendous amount of money gone into that project. The government is in there for millions and millions of dollars and it must work. it must go ahead and it must be successful,in my view. MR. WINSOR: {Inaudible). MR. PECKFORD: No, I do not know. I know it is up to $160 million. I am just pulling the figure out of the air. MR. WINSOR: (Inaudible). MR. PECKFORD: Yes, as long as it qualifies that I am conjecturinj:! the hon. member for Fogo then I have no - AN HON.

MEMBER: A substantial amount in Happy Valley? MR4 PECKFORD: A substantial amount in Happy Valley, yes. Right, yes, a substantial amount. Now another point, and this is all to indicate, Mr. Speaker, as I did in my written text which was passed on to the media and the press. this is all to indicate that those people who try to contend that this government is a government of no action, of inaction.are totally false. They are putting their head in the sand, they are hein~ like ostriches in not trying to recognize and to give credit where credit is due. Hence.

I have been on my feet now, I do not know how long but lonr enough perhaps as most of you will say but in each instance, and if we could take a vote if we were in the court of law and someone approved this. in each instance I am talkin~ about actual things and policies and programmes that this government has tried to bring in in the last twelve. thirteen or fourteen months to help make this economy go ahead, to help give the people of this province a new confidence. I have been - MR. WINSOR: (Inaudible). MR.

PECKFORD: Look the hon. member for Fogo,! do not like to put you among the handicapped~ Sir, but I think you need something to help you hear because you have not heard me for the last hour and I feel very sorry for 335

February 15, 1973 Tope 113 JM - 2 you, Sir, and I must say so in all seriousness r.hat I feel very sorry for you~ I would be happy. Mr. Speaker, tonight for three or four hours to sit down with the hon. member for Fogo and to outline in specific, minute detail just exactly what this government has done in the last twelve months. MR. WINSOR: (Inaudible). MR* PECKFORD: Well, whenever vou are available, Sir, I will be available and there will be no hesitation on my

part in explaining to you what this government has been doing. is doing and will continue to do. There are many other points. Hr. Speaker, thnt one could bring out. The conflict of interest legislation which has been the bone of contention for years in and out of this House: The thing that must be done here, Mr. Speaker, on conflict of interest, I think right now that I would say, here we are conjecturing again, that a large segment of the population of Newfoundland who read the papers and listen to their radios are confused as to what conflict of interest really means.

I herald the day that this House. that this government brings in a definition and legislation concerning confli.ct of interest because I am sure it has been bandying it about now for months and I think there are n lot of people here now it seems. I get the feelin~ that almost anything an hon. member would do on either side of the House 1 now 1 am talking about in business or anything outside the normal day-~to--day activities of a member,,that he is into a conflict of interest situation.

I think we are at that stage that people are all alerted and tuned up for this business of conflict of interest and they have heard so much about direct politics right across the nation, right across the continent, right across the world that now when a member moves at all to do anything which is totally legitimate~ which is totally authentic~ which is totally genuine he is accused by the less informed that he has now been in a conflict of interest situation, 11 resign your seat, get out of politics you are only a dirty man 336

February 15, 1973 Tape 113 JM - 3 and you h:lVe no business being there. 11 when this is not in fact the case. I welcome in the Speech from the Throne. Mr. Speaker. the mentior of bringin~ in a number of pieces of consumer legislation.

As I mentioned in my prepared text,I was most concerned and this is one thing, if I can come back to it again for just a second. that disturbes a lot of the mothers and breadwinners of this province and that is the prices of food especially have gone helter-skelter, absolutely skyrocket and I do not kno~, I doubt whether any House of Commons Committee to look into the situation is going to do much to rectify the situation,~ Something more tangible and more concrete must come out of Ottawa to help solve this price situation.

Just about every item of food, I hear it every day from my constituents and from people around town, I have heard it many times expressed and they say, 11 Why do you not say something about the prices. I went to the supermarket yesterday and got a quart of milk or got something and it cost me thirty-six cents and I went back the next week and it cost me forty cents or even more. 11 The other thing that disturbs me about this and I do not know, Mr. Speaker, whether anything every can be done about it but the regional disparity in prices from one small town to another town is absolutely tremendous.

I have gone to stores in my district in South Brook, Halls Bay and picked up one item of groceries and I have gone down to Springdale and picked up the same idential item and there has been a difference of eight and nine cents.

That is regional price inequality that somebody is making a fortune out of and I say it simply to pacify, if you want, to satisfy those people, many, in the tens anyway, twenty or thirty people who have mentioned to me over the last year, "What are you going: to do about prices? 11 That is a great question for a constituent to ask a member, "What are you going to do about prices?" and I try to explain the various levels of reponsibility and so on in such matters. But it is a very touchy and sensitive area for especially mothers many of whom 337

February 15, 1973 Tape 113 J}! - 4 pick up the groceries and so on, this business of prices~ As I said in my prepared text, what is the sense of this group of employees or that group of employees going on strike for an extended period of time to get a wage hike of six or ten cents an hour when as soon as they finish the striket and never get their money back, they are never ahead on that on strikes, they are never ahead on that, they turn around and the price of such and such is gone up another four or five cents which leaves tha.-n in exactly the same boat: they uere before they started their whole labour dispute.

It is an unfortunate situation. It is a situation truly that is of mnrlern design, it is one that all the more western nationa of the world have and I do not know what the answer is. I simply echo the concern of many people whom I have talked to about this price spiralling situation. Also, Mr. Speaker, one of the things that disturbed me and many people like me in the last ten years was this business of liquor licensing and so on.

I think it is a fair statc1Ttent to make that in the past there were many abuses of this system and that is putting it as clearly and as comfortably as I can put it that the rovernnent and the members had a firm grip and control over the issuing of beer license.agents and licensed bars and whatever around this province. This, Mr. Speaker, I trust from the mention of it in the Speech from the Throne about an independent liquor licensing board will be finished once and for all. I for one,as a member of the hon.

House of Assembly of Newfoundland and Labrador,do not want to have anything to do with anybody's liquor license in Green Bay or in any other part of this province. I think it is distasteful and I do not want to have. anythinp: to do with it. If he meets all the regulations set up by an independent board he should get his license regardless whether he is red, pink, black, yellow or whatever and that there should be no other qualification 338

February 15, 1973 Tape 113 JM - 5 thereto. I am pleased to see that we have this independent liquor licensinr­ board. The hon. Minister of Finance I suppose will bring in legislation or whatever on it,in the upcoming weeks in this session of the House hopefully,_ because 339

February 15, 1973 Tape No. lll, NM - 1 I do not think anybody who has followed politics in the last five, ten years in Newfoundland could argue with those statements with any degree of validity, because I think in many cases it can be proved with actual facts, Hopefully that day is over and hopefully it will never happen again; that this business of liquor licensing and so on will be handled independently. It is very distaste and perhaps enough said on it. As far as my own District of Green Bay is concerned, Hr.

Speaker, as all other rural districts of the province, Green Bay District is unlike others~ It is not unlike others. 1t needs greater road connections, better road connections. It needs water and sewerage systems and Mr. Speaker, it even needs in a couple areas of Green Hay, telephone systems. I thought I knew Green Bay District pretty well after I was elected there last March, but I was not aware that in two communities that are on Sunday Cove Island, that they only have one mobile phone unit and since then, Mr.

Speaker, I have made representations on their behalf to have phone systems set up, which really does not enter into it too much here. As I mentioned in my prepared text, Mr, Speaker, I think this province is going to flourish and be great. It is going to proceed on into the future in a progressive way if we grapple with the main things, not the nitty nit picking things that we have seen over the last three or four months, or two or three weeks.

If we honestly and sincerely grapple with the problems of agriculture, if we sincerely and honestly grapple with the problems of mining and forestry and tourism and energy, these are the things that count and the policies and programmes that a given government brings in in these fields or avenues will determine whether that government is a good government or a bad government. It will not be whether the licence plate is blue, pink yellow, or anything else, it is a very minor and insignificant point, what 340

February 15, 1973 Tape No. 114 NM - 2 will count is how we proceed on our main resources, on those sectors of the economy on which we must depend more than any others, and fishing of course, perhaps I left it out there then. I think, as I mentioned in my prepared text, there might be something to be said in certain parts of Newfoundland for further development of our inshore fishery. 'I do not know. But it is worth a look at.

There are certain areas of the province, because I have had the opportunity over the last ten years to be all over the province, and lived in many parts of the province, to see that the inshore fishery is not going to be a success in certain areas.

I can see that perhaps in other areas it might be. l know from my own area of Green Bay for instance} Green Bay Proper and Halls Bay, tht there might be something to be said for having, and I have already mentioned and talked about this at some length with the Minister of Fisheries, there might be something said in a number of areas, well identified, well research for starting up from small to medium size fish processing unit, which would process at giv0 n times of the years, at 3iven times of the year, the various species of fish that might be found there.

For instance, a fishing berth, employing fifteen or twenty people, which could in the spring start off with salmon and process it and then when the cod and haddock and flounder come on, with about forty or fifty fishermen feeding it, getting into that. Then the lobster, getting into that, and the crabs and the scallops and the shrimp and what ever is there. Once you have determined what is there then build your complex or your medium size fish processing plant in line with that.

I think there might be, I am not saying there is I do not know, there might be something to be said for a number of areas of the province like that where you have identified a sufficient fishery resource of various species to build some kind of a, not necessarily the government, it could be through entrepreneurs 341

February 15, 1973 Tape No. 114 NM - 3 or whatever, of businessmen in the area who v,uuJd want to get into it once they knew it was going to be a fairly successful thing, Perhaps through soir.e assistance loan prograsme, they could get the money from theres I think there is something that could be looked at.

But we should never lose sight of the fact when -.,,;e try to grapple to our old ways that perhaps.as has already been announced by this government, that we must also go ahead at the sarne time and get into the mainstream of the fishing in,au,sc1rv,that we must realize that we have to have bigger boats, that we have to ~o,as it w~re, after the. fish and that we have to have these sixty-five foot experimental boats to do the very thing I was talking about on small and medium size fishing facilities,to determine where the fish are and what should be done.

At one and the same time we could go ahead on both fronts to some degree and this is happening right now,as I mentioned in the prepared text,,because we are supporting the fisheries lonn prograrr.me - and so on in all these areas. Mr. Speaker, before I sit down for the afternoon - MR. NEARY: Here, here. PECKFQR.£!_ We got you now. He got you now, have we not? There is no question about that. You like to hear your, ownself speak for hours, let .somebody else get up for an hour, get him to sit down. Here it does not work, Mr. Speaker, here it does not work. I am able for the honourable member for Bell Island.

Hake no question about that, any time. Mr. Speaker. one last point that has, outside the $peech from the Throne and so on, that has taken up some concern of the media and the press lately and that is, and that I would like to have a comment on here, , simply the role of the backbencher in this government or any other government.

February 15, 1973 Tape No. lll+ NM - 4 Mr. Speaker, if a member of this House has the knowledge and the energy and the intelligence and everything else that goes with its he as a backbencher can have a tremendous influence upon policy in this government. That goes for people on the other side as well, if they want to really exert their influence in goinR to see the various ministers and in other ways in this House. We have a responsibility as bills come in to research the work that is done on that bill and to stand up a~d say what we think of it.

I think a lot of the superficinl,really, criticism that has been made, that a backbencher just goes in and as the word suggests, just to sit down and 11back 11 up the bench so to speak and do nothing more, nothing could be farther from the truth, my brief experience in politics, twelve months or whatever, that I have learned. I can easily, not prove it but make a logical case out of it, I have learned if a person, if a member does his homework and wants to represent his district well he can influence policy. He can do every one of those things as a backbencher.

There is no question, no question whatsoever in my rnind that this can be done. The ministers are there. The different departments are there. You can write them or set up appointments with them and go in and discuss the various policy of fishery or agriculture or so on. So Mr.

Speaker, I think I have spoken long enough to indicate that without one shadow of a doubt this government is a government of action from the various things I have mentioned right down through and that we will continue in the next twelve months to proceed with those policies and programmes that are mentioned here in the Speech from the Throne. I look forward to working with the various ministers and members here to make sure this province goes ahead even better this coming year than it has in the past. Thank you very much. 343

February 15, 1973 Tape No. 11/i. NM - 5 Mr. Speaker, I wish to adjourn this debate. It has been move.cl and seconded that the debate be adjourned. Carried. MR. NEARY_:. Mr. Speaker, by leave of the Hot.me could I revert back to Order of the Day • .!:ffi. SPEAKER: The honourable member has leave. MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, after checking with Hansard~ although I find that the Premier's reply to my questions, in my opinion, was sort of vague, I withdraw the statement that he deliberately misled the House. I might say, Mr. Speaker, by the way of the information in the House that the honourable's Premier 1 s

interpretation of bargaining in good faith and mine were two entirely different matters~, I think what the union means in their letter and I checked this -with the representative of the United Steel Workers of America. who happened to be sitting in the gallery. I think what they are really after is to get somebody 1n Buchnns 1 whether it is the manager there.Mr. Hart~or

February 15 1 1973, Tape 115, Page 1 -- apb some other official of the company who can make on the spot decisions during the contract negotiations that are going on between the union and the company. I just mention that for clarification, Mr. Speaker. MR. F .D .}100RES: Mr. speaker, I would like to thank the honourable member for the retraction of his remarks. That

interpretation was not clear in the letter. It will be followed through on that basis. Motion, second reading of a bill; "An Act Further to Amend The Assignment Of Book Debts Act. 11 (No. 17). HON. T.A.HICK.MAN (Minister of Justice): This is simply a routine bill that should be read in conjunction with another bill that is before the House, bill No. 13, nAn Act Further To Amend The Companies Act. 1' If it is the pleasure of the House, when the next bill is called I think I can give a meaningful dissertation on it, so I simply move second reading of it.

On motion, bill read a second time ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House presently. }f,ntion, second readint of a bill; "An Act Further To Amend The Companies Act. 0 (No. 13) MR. NEARY: Mr. Speaker, before the Minister of Justice introduces that bill~ I wonder if the House Leader could give us some indication of what bills he is going to call today, because my absent colleagues would like to comm.ent on some of these bills. Could I have a run down? MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, generally speaking I should like _to say perhaps routine bills.

But we do not regard any of our legislation as being routine but greatly of substance. However. what we ~ill be doing, we will be calling orders - well perhaps for the opposition I could give them the orders that we are calling. Orders three, four, five, six (not necessarily in this order) seven, eight, twelve, fifteen, seventeen and twenty. 345

February 15, 1973, Tape 115i Page 2 -- apb I call these, ML Speaker, because all of these with the exception of two which are very, very routine I would imagine, like the nQuieting of Titles Act,1' the b::.inourcible Hinister of Justice can explain purely and simply, an m:ncndment of fo:rn rather than of substance. lUl of these, the bills, have been distributed two or three. days before and I do not think that they have any, you know, that they will be particularly contentious. HR. HICKMl1.N: Hr.

Spe.aker 1 this bill to amend the Companies Act, firstly, and this is set forth very clearly in the e~planatory notes 1 the provision under the Companies Act has been th.at any person requesting a copy of a memorandum of association filed with the :registrar of companies and the articles, which is a very voluminous thing to get for twenty-five cents, this is way below the cost of producing this and the amendment .simply changes twenty-five cents to five dollars.

The other part which ties in with the Assip-nment of Hook Debts Act, provides that any company doing business in Newfoundland,a foreign company, and this hafl been the law for quite some tine ~that carrying on business in Newfoundland they are required to register under the foreign companies section& The amendment is to provide that any company taking a chosen action or .nn assignment, that tao constitutes carrying on business and they must comply with the laws of the province. This does not apply as the honourable House will see to the penalty provision to a Dominion company~ I move second reading. MR.

RONERTS: Mr. Speaker, as the honourable gentleman said, it is fairly straightforward and essentially a technical matte,r. Really, the only question that I would ask and it is a fairly broad question, but I think it arises out of the bill: Our Companies Act I believe is now about the oldest in Canada. Indeed I am told that it is modelled directly on the English Companies Act of 1862, which was the original Companies Act in the whole world. At least the companies as ve know

February 15~ 1973, Tape 115, Page 3 -- apb them in our jurisprudential concepts. The English Act has been amended many, many times and improved substantially. Indeed I nm told, Mr. Speaker, that the present English Companies Legislation which is in more than one act 1 of course, is among the best in the world. There are different theories on companies, but following the English line of jurisprudence, it is probably the best. Ours still goes on.

It was like the situation we had with divorce laws in Canada, where Canada assumed the English Divorce Law as of 1857 I believe, and we inherited that in Canada and we had it until 1968 when the present Divorce Act became the law. Meanwhile, the English had gone on and amended their act many, oany times and we had been left behind. I wonder if the minister in closing what obviously is going to be a lengthy debate, a number of learned members may choose to enter into it, but if the minister could indicate whether any thought has been given to a complete revamping of the Companies Act.

It is a pretty important piece of legislation, Hr. Speaker, hecause, I do not know what percentage of the business is done in Newfoundland but surely~ the greater part and perhaps almost all of the business being done in this province these days is being done through incorporated bodies, by companies. Surely the age of a man trading in his own account or even trading as a partnership is almost gone. Lm ... ,yers practice as partnerships, accountants practice as partnerships, doctors practice either as individuals or as partnerships.

In each case it is our professional bodies as part of our canons of practice that say we shall practice as such. Surely almost all the business now being done in Newfoundland is being done by incorporated bodies and the Companies Act is the basic legislation, unless the company be incorporated federally. But we are talking about Newfoundland conpanies, that is many of the companies doing business here.

February 15, 1973, Tape 115, Paze 4 -- npb We are doing: business under an net that is at least a century old. In many places it is outdated. I would like to sec these preferred shares ended. I have always been unhappy .about them. I think the people who buy them arc often of the impression that. these preferred shares are what amounts to bonds and that their interest comes, you know, ranks fairly high in the dispersement of a company's revenue, profits for the year.

In actual fact they are shares and the incooe, the interest rate on them mayf,e preferred to the common shares, the interest rate on them is preferred only far down on the list. Hany companies have used these. I do not mind saying that some of the companies my father has promoted have used these and they are now refinancing one of the!:l. The Battery is, they are doing the right thing in my vie-w, changing the preferred shares into bonds with all of the consequent changes. I think that is an area where our law is defective. These preferred shares; many• many companies have been setup on them.

They are perfectly proper, but I do think perhaps they should be a little more stringently policed. There arc n nunber other areas of the Companies Act and learned gentlernan who practice, (while I am officially a learned gentleman I never practiced law in this province or any other) may be able to add a great deal to it, I do think the time has come when we might have a look at companies legislation.

It is not controversial, it is not the .sort of thing that election speeches are made about, it is not the sort of thing really that in the normal course of events the government are able to devote a great to. of tit!le It may be that the minister could set up a committee with one of his own officials, some representatives of something like the Board of Trade or the Chamber of Commerce who have an interest in it, or perhaps some of the representatives from the legal profession and any other interested bodies, to have a look at it.

February 15, 1973, Tape 115, Page 5 -- apb The new Ontario act is very good. They have updated their legislation in the last two or three years. 1:aybe the time has come. Now that is a long speech on

an act further to amend the Companies Act, but it is about the Companies Act, not so much about really quite minor things, the sort of thing that Mr. Austin Parsons turns out so capably antl so voluminously and that are essential to the business of the province even though they may not ret the headlines. From our side we have caucused and debated it at length and I think we are prepared to support the amendment at least in second reading~ We may have some amendments at comn.ittee stage or one thing or another, but a little more seriously 349

February 15, 1973 Mr~ Roberts~ Tape no, 116 Page l - MRW if the minister could indicate whether any thought has been given to a complete revamping of the Companies Act and the other legislation 1 the Securities Act and what have you 1 untler which businesses do business in this provincea MR. HICKMAN: Mr. Speaker, on the Companies Act, three or four years ago, there was a draft Companies Act prepared, following the recommendations of the uniformity of legislation commissioners.

That act for some reason {It was more than three or four years ago, It was in the early sixties) was rejected by pretty well every association to whom it was referred~ I have long since come to the conclusion, not long since, but I have certainly come to the conclusion that not only do we need a ner,; Companies Act, which is going to be a pretty massive piece of draftsw.anship - the new act in Ontario went to the Ontario Law Reform Commission and my recollection is that from the time they were given the task of coming up with a new Companies Act until they finally produced it for second reading in the Legislature was something like two or three years.

The Ontario Law Reform. Commission has a very large staff of legislative draftsmen and researchers at their disposal. Sometimes we have been inclined to take the legislation from other provinces and say, if Ontario now has a satisfactory act, we should. This does not necessarily follow, Mr. Speaker. My intention is that as soon as we find some additional legislative draftsmen to assist Mr.

Austin Parsons and hopefully this will be within the next couple of months, that there are several~ what I would call, commercial acts that need not revision, but replacement to repeal the existing legislation; (1) the Companies Act, another is the Securities Act and I think that we a.re very much in need of a new Securities Act in this province. I suppose you can go the whole gambit of the registration of deeds as well as companies. This certainly is under advisement and under consideration as far 350

February 15, 1973 Tape no. 116 Page 2 - MRW Mr. Hickman. as I am concerned and with a bit of luck, I will not say it will be before the next session of the House but certainly it will be sometime during the Thirty-Sixth General Assembly. On motion a bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Companies Act, 11 read a second time, ordered referred to a Committee of the Whole House, presently. Motion second reading of a bill, 11

An Act To Amend The St. Clare's Mercy Hospital (Incorporation) Act, 1960. 11 DR. A. T. ROWE: The purpose of this bill is to amend the St. Clare's Mercy Hospital Act. There are two points: One is to broaden the membership on the board of directors at the hospital by including within the new board representative government of the univeristy of the city and have provincial representation. The amendment also provides for ex officio membership for the appointment of filling a vacancy to the board for the terms allotted.

I would point out that the incorporation of the hospital took place by the act of 1960 and at this time effected with the university the necessary affiliation. With the expansion of the hospital it is necessary that the act be amended to broaden the board as I have explained. In addition, there is a

section in the act which exempts board members from personal liability. I do not guess it was covered in other acts but they wish it inserted here. I think these are the two main points in the act to be amended MR. ROBERTS: Mr. Speaker, from this side of the House. all of us over here will support the bill. As the minister outlined it, it is a very straightforward piece of legislation and in a sense what the house is being asked to do is to facilitate the organization of a private hospital and a very good private hospital it is. The St. Clare's and the Orace were ( I think it is now officially the Grace General Hospital) 351

February 15, 1973 Tape no. 116 Page 3 Mr. Roberts. not the first hospitals in Newfoundland. The General Hospital is the oldest hospital we have. I think it is feir to say that both the Grace or the Grace General (It will always be called the Grace Hospital) and St. Clare's, without them, the development of medicine, the development of hospital care would be far behind where it is now. They have been very much to the forefront over the years. I have no doubt that they will always continue to be so. Certainly, we would hope that that is so.

The only question I would ask of this - I notice with some interest that the Minister of Health has carried through and indeed within the past day or two announced the board of management at the Channel Hospital. I vas very glad to see it completed. It did take a vhile but these things do.

This began - I am not sure at what point during my tenure as Minister of Health but certainly while I was Minister of Health the matter came up~ It came up rather dramatically one night~ I went to bed at :midnight with the news that all four of the doctors on staff at the hospital submitted their resignations which in fact they had and by the next morning they were all back at work. The problem had been resolved that caused the resignation. There had been considerable difficulty at that hospital over the years. It became obvious that a board was the answer.

The minister carried on a policy which really has been in effect, I suppose, for the past ten or twelve years. It was culminated in a legislative sense in the Hospital's Act a couple of years ago, which has not yet been proclaimed I noticed but presumably is being worked out~ I assume it is the policy of the present administration to carry through with that~ I wonder if the minister could tell us a little about where we stand. The Gander Hospital is to be placed under a board of management and so it should be. The Hospital for Mental and Nervous Diseases is to be placed under a board 352

February 15, 1973 Mr. Roberts. Tape no. 116 Page 4 of management and indeed I believe the chairman of it, Mr. Jack Pratt has been appointed. Others may have been appointed but Mr~ Pratt 1 s name has been announced. I wonder if the minister could indicate what other hospitals might be under this. I do not intend to start a long debate on it now. It is one of the points which on the minister's estimates, I hope we will go into it at some length. But this might be an appropriate place to do it. 1 do not think it is stretching the principle of this bill too far.

It may be stretching it some- what but principles in bills and perhaps elsewhere, but certainly in bills do tend to be elastic, sometimes a little more than elastic I fear. But if the minister could indicate where we are - it is an important thing and this is an implementation of the principle. The Governor in Council, the Government of the Province now have the right to appoint a member to the St. Clare 1 s Board. They did not have the right before. I think it is a good thing that the government are represented on it.

The university, of course - the hospital is a teaching hospital 1 affiliated with the university.and that is why they have the representation and again so they should. We are getting more and more towards the system in this province where the hospitals are operated by bodies set up to operate the hospitals and so it should be. The government's role is less that of running hospitals and more that of supervising them.of the planning,of the development, of maintenance of standards and of the general co-ordination of the system. That is well and good,the way it should be.

I wonder if the minister could tell us in reply,(other honourable members may choose to speak) if he could indicate to us where we are going on hospitals, when may we expect to see Gander become under a board? What is his thinking on the H.M.N.D., Waterford Bridge Road? By the way, can we rename it? It has been talked 35:J

February 15, 1973 Mr. Roberts~ Tape no. 116 Page about all these years but it really should be renamed. I 5 rather like the tradition of naming our hospitals after prominent medical people, the Roddick Hospital in Stephenville. The Western Memorial, that name has meaning in Corner Brook. There are surely pioneer doctors in Corner Brook after whom a hospital might quite properly be named9 Indeed the hall, of course, is named after Dr. Monahan. The Curtis Hospital in St~ Anthony 354

Febnmry 15, 1973 Tape 117 rn-1 the Doctor Templeman hospital, indeed that was named when 'Temn''was sti.11 alive and I know what he was told. }fr. Smallwood rang him and asked nermission and 'Temrf said, nit is a little like havinr.: your own obituary read to you," because he was verv sick at the time and he had heen sick for a while. The Paton Hospital named after the father of Dr. Tony Paton and nr.

Harry Paton and there may he others hut -it is the trad­ ition that I like and I think we should incourage The Jac.krnan Hospital in Labrador We,;t is not mnned aftP:r a doctor it is named after a sea captain. l-l'e would have been from Harbour Main, I guess~ with n name like Jackman or mavhe the Southern Shore, Renews somewhere but a man who saved twenty or twenty-five person's lives in a storm rlown on the Southern Coast of Labrador a number of years a~o. r,fayhe the H.!'f. and the other mentnl could he renamed~ mayJ,e Dr, Cluny MacPherson's name could be placed on that~as a suggestion.

The hill itself is. of course, comnletely unobiectionable and we are glad to be able to sunport it Put I wnuld he interested if the minister could talk for a few minutes on theHe other points. MR. FINTAN J. AYLWARD: T would just like to take this opoortunitv of paving a tribute to the great work. done hv the Sisters of Nercv and I think since the insti.tuation of St. Clare 1 s Mercy Hosnital and the great extention of the services shO'WS reallv what an orf!anizatinn dedicated to the curing of the sick and the suffering can be carried out by such organizations ns the Sisters of }fercv.

I think anvone that has had occasion over the years to have been hospitalized or who have had occasion to visit the pattents hospitalized there .. was very impressed with the high standard of care rendered by the staff and the Sisters of Mercv in char~e of that hospital. I think they have done a great deal for the neonle in the province in the field of education and as i said here in a previous 355

Fehruary 15, 1973 Ta11e 117 IR-2 debate, I think the people of the outnort I was a heneficiarv of it myself. I owe these ~isters nf ~ercy a great deal because they have brought a lot of culture to the outnorts of Newfound­ land and many, many of the memhers, on hoth sides of this House, I am sure, have been benefactors of their r,reat service. The µork at St.

Clare's Hercy Hospital I think has been exemplary and the preat expansion of that hospital in the past few vears is again a ireat tribute to the leadership of the Archbishop and the members of the Hierarchy and as I say, I would iust like to avail of this oonortunitv to express I am sure the gratitude of all members for the great contributions which have heen made to the health of the neople of the nrovlnce.

Also, I am very pleased to see in thi.s particular bill that the constitution of thi.s board is not reallv under control hy the Lieutenant Governor-in-Council but by the, it would appear, designated bv the act, the Mother General, the Archbishon and i.t makes provision for apnointment and designation to certain members. 1 think this is excellent and I like, in particular that

section which nrovides that the chariman of the hoard shall he anpointed bv the·Archbishon and the Mother Ceneral of the Congreg­ ation of the Sisters of Mercy. I think it is only fair that if the congregation of the Sisters of Mercy and the Archbishop of these people are directly concerned with the administration of that hospital that they should certainly have that ri~ht. I was under the impression, probably wrongly so, that there was one act covering the ~ppointment or constitution of all boards. ts this a departure now? Oh, I see.

Well, I am very, very pleased to see that undoubtedly this has the consent of the existing board at St. Clare's and they requested it. So, I am very, very pleased to identify myself with this and support the bill and as I said,take the opportunity to thank both the cler~y and the sisters for their great work. 356

Februarv 15, 197 3 Tape 117 IB-3 MR. s. NFARY: t-fr. Speaker, I would just like to take a moment to concur with what the hon. member for Placentia East has iust said ahout St. Clare's \.fercv Hosnital. I have more than iust a oassin~ interest in the place mvself. ~y wife happens to be a graduate of St. Clare's but it ts, thev are doing a fantastic iob, Sir, and it is a beautiful hnsrdtal. It is a credit to Newfoundland. Now. ~r. Speaker, I understand that the patients at the old sanatorium chest diseases are to he moved t0 St. Clare's Mercy Hosnital. The minister made a nuhlic announcement some time ap:o.

I wonder if the minister could tell us if anv have been moved, if the patients at the old sanatorium now are merelv convalescent patients? And what would hapnen to the staff at the s,mi. tarium? Will any of the staff move to St. Clare's when the natlents with chest diseases are moved in? DR. A. T. ROWE: 1 would he happy to refer to some of the items mentioned bv the hon, Leader of the.. Q,pposttion. First of all with regard to hoard onerated hospitals.

Following the recomendation of the Drain Report back in 1965-1966 when he suggested or indicated or recommended that gover­ nment should relieve itself, as far as possible, from dav to dav nneratfrm of hosnitals. I think this is a very worth-while recommendation, one wh:irh personally, I am very much in favour~having been on the medical staff of a hoard 0 -operatcd hospital for the past fifteen or twenty years. From tlu· point of view of those that have been done in the time since 1 came in, you will remember the Buchans Hospital is now operating under the board of Mr. 3artlett• There is some difficulty there.

It wcs not a government hospital as the hon. leader is we],l aware and there was difficultv in the nremises belonging to the American Smelting and Mining Company. In fact the government had to t·ave some specific authority in which to order a board to operate it and this has not yet been finally negctiated We do have the authority to have board operate it but we have not sort 357

February 15, 1973 Tave 117 rn-4 of fully negotiated the final papers. As far as Channel is concerned, I am aware that there has heen some ministerial procrastination, nerhahs of some political ineptitude in many directions. However, I was con­ cerned about the noint spoken of, the lack of medical stobil1 ty in Channel, which was of very considrnble concern to us last spr.ing,and there was a similar e~isode of a mass resignation. 1 am very glad to sav now that we dn hrwe medical stabilitv in Channel and I wish the hoard every success.

As far as the H~spital for Mental and Nervous OiseaseR is concerned, you mav remember in the estimates introduced last vear that I intimated the need to C"hanre the name. I felt that there Has still a question of stigma attached to bein~ a patient within that hospital and the board has heen n.pnotnted, the name of the chairman. Mr. Pratt, has been publicly announced and at the moment we are in the orocess of preparing a release on the names of other persons who have ju~t far been apnointed. This board is now nhout to be?,in operation.

I think one of the i.tems 1whi.ch is high on their list for consi.deratjon ls the possibility of the chan;te of the name of the hosnital. MR ROBERTS: Will that he uo to the board? pR ROWE: They wi.11 undoubtedlv have some recommendation to make with re,gard to the name. I would assume that we wiJ 1. be receiving their ideas before a decision is made. I think the mental hospital is a very imnortant institution, as I said he fore oublicly ~ as far as I am concerned. We were not able to go ahead last year.

I fervently hope that the necessary services will he upgraded in the near future with the beginning of t,he extension service in certain other mental health. MR ROBERTS: Is it the intention to go ahead this year? DR ROWE: Well, I would say that my fervant hope - I menn, everyhody agrees - MR NEARY: However, the important thing is the patients are in the mental hosnital - it is a very humane aspect of the mental hospital, which concerns me greatly, and I am very happy to know that the board will direct the operation of 358

February 15, 1973 u --6 Tape"" Pl'. - 1 the fourth hospital is Gander and at the moment we are in process of appointing a chairman for the proposed board. And the answer to your question is; hopefully this board will be in operation within the next couple of months. Now I have no immediate plan to introduce more boards as of the moment.

We are considering certain other hospitals hut when you think of the administrative involvement in turning a hospital over from government operation to a board operataion it is pretty considerable, appointing a new administration, the question of purchasing. the question of payroll, the question of medical staff and all these thinp.s take a good deal of time to implement when you are changing over from government system to a board operated system.

I anticipate that for the next few months the administrative people within the Department of Health for whom I ha":e great rer,ard will have considerable difficulty in getting all of the details attended to, so I would not wish them to have to provide the modus operandi for any more than they can adequately handle at the moment. But I would hope that in the next year there will he at least two or three others that we will provisionally say, you arc ripe for a board operation. AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. MR. ROWE,, A.T. Well that is a question for the International Grenfell Association.

I think we would have to say that the International Grenfell Association can·run a very ideal medical services. I think it would be true to say that the government could not at this time perform the work in the area that the IGA are doing. The people there must have a great gratitude for the service they are operating. They can manage to recruit doctors. They can manage tb recruit nurses. They can manage to run the operation in isolation which government at the moment would have great difficulty in probably tryin~ to do as effectively. But your question of the Paddon Memorial Hospital ts under the aegis of IGA.

I do not think it wishes me to speak for IGA or the destination of any part of their present operation. 359

February 15, 1973 Tape PK - 2 AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. HR. RD~A.T. Oh I think we are very happy~I have spoken with Dr. Thomas quite recently about this - what he calls a local management committee of sitting down and having talks and Hnison with him and his organization regardin~ certain ~Etters in the operation of the hospital, this is not in the true sense of a hoard-operated hospital. It is a community - AN HON~ MEMBF:R! Inaudihle. HR.

ROWE,_j\_~ The number of the community people who are involved in discussions with him regardin~ principles in the operation of the hospitaL Now on the question of the fanatoriuA, the estimated time at the moment is to move the patients out during March, hopefully it w:Ul he completely hy the end of March. The patients, no they are not convalescent, the patients are active tuberculous patients heing treated in the approved medical way. There are sowc convo.Jesc.ent orthopedic cases. They will be moved as well.

Now on the question of stnff - a great consideration ls be:ing given to - there will be a certain nrnnher moved to St. Clare 1 s, a numher of others will be transferred into other operation~. At the present time the department is workin~ with me on the numhers that will be - AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. t:.~~~ ~OWF'.-, A.T. Despite. ! rlo not think there will be very many bnt I would not like to go on a recorded statement today and say how many but I am told that the vast majority of them will he well looked after.

I can pull the figure out of the air of the number of employees, but I do not wish to give the figures because they can operate in two directions, for me or ap,ainst me. All !JON. MEMBER· Inaudible. 360

February 15. 1973 PK - 3 MR. ROWE. A.T. Pardon me. AN HON. MEMBER: A few may lose their johs. MR. ROVffi. A.T. There w~y be a few, but 1 would not like to say they will lose their jobs. Every effort is being made as I have stated to ensure that people who are ousted because of the move will be offered other alternate employment. Some of them may not wish to take the employment offered hut I think our responsibility is to ensure as far as possible that other employment is offered. AN HON. MF:HBER: Inaudible. MR. ROWE...!~ Well that is a question for my colleague jthe honourahle Minister of Public Works. AN !ION.

HFMBER: lnaudihle. AN HON. MEMEER: Inaudihle. MR. ROWE, __ A. T ._ of it. Puhic Works are responsible for building.in my understanding AN HON. MEMBER: Inaudible. --~-- t!R. ROW.£':'..)~ Pardon me. Puhlic Works.is it not. Hell as far as :::t. Clare 1 s is concerned I too would add my congratulations to the work that this hospital has performed cfown through the years. I feel that with the recent improvements and extension to the hospital this is equivalent to anything in the North America Continent, I have plesure, Mr. Speaker, in moving second reac11m:, of r-hiA hill. On motion a bill, "An Act To Amend ThP ~t:'.

C1nrn 1 s itercy TTospital Corporation Act, 1960 11 , read a second time, ordered referred to a committee of the whole House, presently. Motion second readinr, of a bill, 11

An Act To Amend The Employment (Notice Of Termination) Act, 1969.n HR. W. lt~RSIIALL : Mr. Speaker, irt the absence of the honourable Minister of Manpower1 this is a simple bill in form but a bill which will have beneficial consequences. It is a bill, Mr. Speaker. to extend the time when an employee may take an action against an employer under the Employment 361

February 15~ 1973 ;­ Tape l'l'l, PK - 4 Notice of Termination Act. At the present time the statutory limit is six months. If the action is not taken hy that time the right of action is lost. The purpose of this hill is to extend the time within which an action may he taken to two years. It is then to extend it hy e:I.ghteen months~ The reason for this, Mr. Speaker, as I have already indicated? i.s that sometimes employees are not aware of the rights that they have under this particular act and by the time they become aware of their rights the time limit has gone. We feel that it should be extended.

Then on the other hand 1in all fairness to employers ns well, som~ well- meaning employers from time to time have paid their employees inadvertently too little and the matter is investigated and then by the time it is investigated sometimes they have about two or three weeks within which to hring action and they have to put the empl9yer to the position of taking an action a~ainst~on hehalf of the employees~against 362

February 15, 1973 Tape 119 JM - 1 the employer where that e..-nployer had an opportunity to look into it for a reasonable period of time and would pay it without the embarrassment of the court action. So it is principally, Mr. Speaker, to protect the employees and to rive the employees the rights, to extent the rights of the employees in the effort to maintain and to increase t