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November 22, 2016

HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY PROCEEDINGS

Vol. XLVIII No. 46

The

House met at 1:30 p.m.

MR. SPEAKER (Osborne):

Order, please!

Admit

strangers.

welcome to the galleries today Kara Moss, her husband Jamie Moss and their

daughter Jessa. Kara was a Page here in the House of Assembly in 2005 and 2006,

and she's the daughter for the Member for Baie Verte Green Bay.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

Statements by

Members

MR. SPEAKER:

Today we have Members'

statements for the Members for the Districts of Harbour Main, Cape St. Francis,

Harbour Grace Port de Grave, Fortune Bay Cape La Hune, Conception Bay South

and Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

The hon.

the Member for the District of Harbour Main.

MS. PARSLEY:

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this

hon. House to congratulate the members of the Brigus Volunteer Fire Department.

On October 22, I was pleased to join with the Town of Brigus to celebrate their

annual firemen's ball. The event was a great success, with close to 200 people

from the community and surrounding areas out to support the department.

addition to a wonderful meal and lively entertainment, I was honoured to present

several firefighters with the Outstanding Service Awards. Congratulations to Mr.

Fred Williams, with 20 years of service, Shears Mercer, Dave Barrett, Rodney

Mercer and Gary Spooner, each with 30 years of service and last but not least,

Byron Rodway with an amazing 35 years of service.

Mr.

Speaker, our volunteer fire departments are the backbone of our communities. It

amazes me how dedicated these volunteers are and how selfishly they give of

their time and energy to help others in crisis with no thought to their own

well-being.

Mr.

Speaker, I ask all hon. Members to join me in thanking the Brigus Fire

Department for their service to the Harbour Main District and congratulate each

individual on their long-service awards.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Cape

St. Francis.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise

in this hon. House today to recognize an icon in my district, Mrs. Mary Power,

who passed away on October 28. Her family described her as a rock, a guiding

light. Her presence in the entire district will surely be missed. Whenever you

were in her company, it was a feeling of warmth and compassion.

She

showed kindness to everyone with her unwavering devotion to her faith; she

visited schools, read to children. While an elderly lady herself, she was always

reaching out to those in seniors' homes or in hospital. She would visit them,

read to them, bring communion, say a few prayers or just give an ear to their

concerns.

Her age

is a secret she takes with her. I know she's smiling just at the thought that I

mentioned that. If you asked her age, her answer was very, very fast: Age is a

number and mine is not listed. However, I'm confident she was over 90 years

old.

condolences to her family and friends, they will miss her dearly, but she will

remain in the hearts of those who had the pleasure of knowing her. God bless

you, my friend.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for the

District of Harbour Grace Port de Grave.

MS. P. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Today, I

recognize Mr. Agustus Menchions of Bay Roberts. Mr. Menchions celebrated his

101st birthday on September 29, surrounded by family friends. Born in 1915, he

grew up in the east end of Bay Roberts. He married Grace French of Coley's Point

and had two daughters, Olive and Jean, eight grandchildren and 10

great-grandchildren.

worked as a carpenter for most of his career, and was also employed by Crosbie's

Distributors in the town, but his passion building model boats. He built a

replica of the famous SS Kyle , which

is on display in a tourist chalet on the waterfront in Harbour Grace near the

actual vessel.

According to his granddaughter, Deloris, Mr. Menchions told many stories of the

early 1900s, in particular, times of war. She remembers when he spoke about the

times when the Germans were flying over Bay Roberts, residents below put

blankets up to the windows to avoid being seen in the night.

November 21, Mr. Menchions passed away peacefully in his sleep, and he is

remembered with love and respect. May he rest in peace.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for the

District of Fortune Bay Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise

in this hon. House to pay tribute to John and Frances Kealey, pioneers of our

province's aquaculture industry who were awarded the NAIA Aquaculturist of the

Year at this year's banquet in September.

Since

the 1970s, John and Frances have put their business and economic development

skills and sheer determination to great use for the advancement of the

aquaculture industry and betterment of our rural communities.

Through

the years, with the Bay d'Espoir Development Association, SCB Fisheries, and

Nordic Salmon, from salmon to trout to Arctic char, the Kealeys have proven time

and time again that they know how to get the job done. They can feel very proud

that they played an instrumental role in proving that aquaculture is a viable,

profitable and community-sustaining initiative.

I highly

commend them for their pioneering fortitude that led to the confirmation that

Nauyak Arctic char is very compatible with the Bay d'Espoir marine environment.

We look forward to greater expansion of our aquaculture products and markets in

the years to come.

I ask

all Members to please join me in paying tribute to John and Frances for the

well-deserved Aquaculturist of the Year award.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Member for

Conception Bay South.

MR. PETTEN:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thursday, October 20, I had the pleasure of attending the fifth annual Bright

Business Luncheon Awards ceremony at the Manuels River Hibernia

Interpretation

Centre.

The

annual event is hosted by the Town of Conception Bay South and it's a great

opportunity for local entrepreneurs to network and showcase their individual

businesses in our community. This year 54 nominations were received.

The

Bright Business Achievement Awards help recognize the contributions of local

businesses that have gone above and beyond. This year's award winners are:

Beautiful Business CBS Glass for Single Tenant and Don Hennessey Limited for

Multiple Tenant; Community Pride and Partnership Musically Inclined; Main

Street Business Improvement Association Member of the Year The Co-operators;

David Murphy Chamber Leadership Cal LeGrow insurance; Established Business of

the Year Dawe's Plumbing and Electrical; New Start Up of the Year T & T

Auto.

I would

like to extend my congratulations to the award winners, nominees and sponsors.

Conception Bay South has grown significantly and it's great to see that the

business community has also shown tremendous growth.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Member for

Cartwright L'Anse au Clair.

MS. DEMPSTER:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I rise

in this hon. House to recognize what has to be one of the most patriotic

communities in our province, Lodge Bay, Labrador, population 60. More than 19

people from Lodge Bay have served or are serving our uniform services over the

years.

This

level of commitment prompted two moms, Betty and Verna Pye, both of whom had

sons deployed in Afghanistan at the time, to start a Remembrance Day event in

their community. Vera Pye, who also had a son in service, joined the team a year

later, followed by Priscella Kippenhuck whose son, Conrad, has had many

deployments since then.

Over the

past 14 years, since that first Remembrance Day ceremony in 2002, the event

continues to grow with Senior and Junior Canadian Rangers and RCMP in

attendance, as well as people from a number of surrounding communities. Each

year, there is a church service, a wreath laying, a parade, two minutes of

silence. The event concludes with refreshments at the community centre. Tanya

Russell has also stepped up to help in a key way as the event continues to grow.

Mr.

Speaker, I ask all hon. Members to join me in saluting the community of Lodge

Bay, a small town in Labrador with a heart as big as the land itself.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Statements by Ministers.

Statements by

Ministers

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Children, Seniors and Social Development.

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

Mr. Speaker, I rise in this

hon. House today to highlight the importance of breastfeeding in the early

months of life.

My past

experience as a neo-natal nurse impressed upon me the value of breastfeeding.

There are clear links to the prevention of breast and ovarian cancers in mothers

who breastfeed and in the prevention of sudden infant death syndrome, asthma,

obesity and type 2 diabetes in infants who are breastfed.

Just a

few weeks ago, I was pleased to meet with the Baby-Friendly Council of

Newfoundland and Labrador, and we discussed our government's commitment to

supporting breastfeeding and working with the council towards increased

duration.

Although

breastfeeding rates in the province continue to rise, they are still not on par

with the national average. In phase two of

The Way Forward , our government has outlined our plan to implement policies

and practices that support healthy eating and breastfeeding in municipalities.

Supporting and encouraging breastfeeding is a prime example of early

intervention for healthy living and in addressing rising rates of chronic

disease. As a government, we are working to achieve greater efficiency, enhance

services and improve outcomes to promote a health and prosperous Newfoundland

and Labrador.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Fortune Bay Cape La Hune.

MS. PERRY:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank

the minister for an advance copy of her statement. The practice of breastfeeding

is extremely important for children and mothers and the health benefits are

immense.

recognize the minister for meeting with the Baby-Friendly Council of

Newfoundland and Labrador. This organization has a vision that our province will

be a place where women will be supported to breastfeed and the number of women

who practice breastfeeding will rise.

The

minister is correct in her statement that breastfeeding numbers have continued

to rise in this province over the last decade. The release of

A Great Start A Breastfeeding Strategic

Plan for Newfoundland and Labrador 2014-2017 put forward a strategy that

built upon the completion of the breastfeeding strategic plan from 2008 to 2011,

which saw measurable increases in breastfeeding numbers in this province.

In her

statement, the minister took time to promote her government's

The Way Forward document. She claims

government

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MS. PERRY:

has outlined a plan to

implement policies and practices that support healthy eating

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MS. PERRY:

but as is typical with this

government, the plan has no details.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Mr. Speaker, I thank the

minister for an advance copy of her statement. In Canada, 85 per cent of mothers

breastfeed their babies; in our province, only 57 per cent do the lowest in

Canada.

Phase

two of the minister's Way Forward

simply gives a vague reference to supporting breastfeeding with no specifics, no

commitment of resources. Without more public health nurses and breastfeeding

experts helping young moms to breastfeed, these are nothing but hollow words.

The minister is committing nothing. What is she going to do concretely ?

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MS. ROGERS:

Niceties are not enough.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

Further statements by

ministers?

The hon.

the Minister of Health and Community Services.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. HAGGIE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It's my

pleasure to rise in this hon. House and outline our opioid action plan.

I had

provincial and territorial colleagues at the national Opioid Conference and

Summit recently in Ottawa.

This

event provided another opportunity to hear the many different voices of those

who are close to the opioid problems across Canada.

Having

heard what other jurisdictions are doing, I am confident in the approach we are

taking to manage this situation in our province.

Mr.

Speaker, our plan will advance this fall, building on such initiatives as the

targeted take-home naloxone program, which I am pleased to say will be rolling

out in the coming days.

The

action plan has many components; a prescriber awareness module is set to begin

in January; the new regulatory standards from the Newfoundland and Labrador

Pharmacy Board will require all pharmacists to be connected to the Provincial

Pharmacy Network by January 1 coming; a Provincial Prescription Monitoring

Program is under development to build on this; and we will work to improve

access to Suboxone and other alternatives to Methadone.

Mr.

Speaker, we recognize the growing epidemic of opioid use in Canada. Through this

action plan, we are working to arm communities and health care providers in this

province with the tools and information needed to respond.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I thank

the minister for the advance copy of his statement today. Many of these

initiatives have been ongoing and I've supported and advocated for them in the

past. The targeted take-home naloxone program is a great example and I do look

forward to its future roll out; however, I'm somewhat concerned with

government's hesitancy in moving forward quickly on the use of Suboxone.

Versus

Methadone, Suboxone has various advantages, including reduced chance of overdose

and having other side effects. It's longer lasting and it's much easier to

stabilize the dosage. That's why BC added Suboxone to its provincial formulary

and family doctors in Alberta, Ontario, Nova Scotia and PEI are allowed to

prescribe it.

I say to

the minister FTP meetings can be useful, especially if you're willing to listen

and adopt best practices from other provinces. There's an opioid epidemic in

this province and it needs our attention and best efforts today.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

I, too,

thank the minister for the advance copy of his statement. I'm glad we have an

action plan for the growing drug problem, but the key word today is action. Of

the 20 drug-related deaths so far this year, 18 people tested positive for

opioids. This is a shocking statistic.

naloxone kit project cannot be stalled or slowed; lives can depend on it. I hope

when the minister says the coming days that's what he means.

Thank

you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

Further statements by

ministers?

Oral

Questions.

Oral Questions

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Mr.

Speaker, once again, we're receiving updates from news media on discussions

between the Premier and the premier of Quebec.

I ask

the Premier: When will he update the people of Newfoundland and Labrador on his

discussions?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well, I

was surprised yesterday actually that I did not get this question. I was more

than prepared to update people then.

Mr.

Speaker, what we've been working at for quite some time with the Atlantic

provinces is improving relationships. We've been able to do that and bring some

positive results. Yesterday morning, I had a conversation with Premier Couillard

and we've made the commitment to actually work together on initiatives that

would impact Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, initiatives that could possibly

have a positive impact on our province.

The

officials will begin discussions on things like culture, things that affect our

border issues and so on. So we look forward to working together with the

Province of Quebec, just as we are with our Atlantic colleagues in many other

provinces right now.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I ask

the Premier if he will ensure that Newfoundland and Labrador's right to continue

current legal action and the commitment to transmission rights through Quebec

will remain intact and remain a paramount consideration of any discussions.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We've

opened a dialogue yesterday about working together without any conditions by the

premier of Quebec, unlike conditions what I'm told that he put on the former

premier. I didn't ask him about those discussions or why it is he imposed them.

There might have been conditions that the former premier put in place, I don't

know. I'm not interested in what the former premier would have had said. What I

am very interested in is the discussion that we had yesterday and the

willingness to work together.

Mr.

Speaker, there are a lot of benefits when you work with provinces that you share

borders with, and improving relationships, like we seen with the Atlantic

provinces right now. So it's really early to tell where this discussion could

go. There's nothing concrete. There are no discussion papers, Mr. Speaker. These

are very early days and there is a desire for me with Premier Couillard to work

together on behalf of our provinces.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

So he

won't make that commitment.

I ask

the Premier: Will government employees be permitted time to vote in today's

school board elections?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Mr. Speaker, there are two

questions that he asked there about making the commitment. I'm prepared to make

the best decision for Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

PREMIER BALL:

Mr. Speaker, when you start

putting conditions in place and what should occur before you even start a

discussion, what you're doing is setting yourself up for failure. This is a

reason why we haven't been able to advance this.

So to

put in pre-conditions on any discussion with a neighbouring province right now

may not be to the benefit of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. But I'll tell you

this, Mr. Speaker, before any final decision is made it will be to a benefit of

Newfoundland and Labrador, if I am Premier at the time.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

question was about school board elections.

I'll ask

the Premier once again: Will government employees be permitted time to vote in

today's school board election, will the Premier tell us?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

MR. KIRBY:

Mr. Speaker, we're pleased

that today we're returning to a model of democratic school governance in

Newfoundland and Labrador that was basically abolished by the previous

government, eliminated

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KIRBY:

And we are returning to that

model. The polls are open today from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. There are no provisions

for time off work in the Elections Act

or the Schools Act or any of the other

regulations, but folks can vote up until 8 p.m.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'll ask

the Premier why employees, public employees and private employees, who work long

hours, for example 12-hour shifts, are being denied an opportunity to vote in

these elections.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

MR. KIRBY:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

That's

interesting, coming from the former premier of the province. Under their

government they disallowed everyone in the province from having an opportunity

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KIRBY:

by effectively eliminating

the process. We're pleased today that we have reversed that direction that they

were going in, and now people will have an opportunity to vote for their own

school trustees, as opposed to having them picked for them by the previous

administration.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We do

expect a level of rhetoric from Members opposite, but it would be nice if they

answered a question from time to time.

So I'll

ask them again, we are hearing from public service employees who are concerned

over not being given their right to vote they're being denied their right to

vote today, those who work 12-hour shifts and there are thousands of them who

work in public service and many who work in private service.

So I'll

ask the Premier again: Why are you not providing an opportunity for those who

work 12-hour shifts an opportunity to vote in those elections? Your goal was to

have as many people vote as possible; you're denying many people that right.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

MR. KIRBY:

Mr. Speaker, as I said here

on the floor of the House of Assembly yesterday, we had a thorough debate on the

budget and its implications in April, May and June of this year. There was all

sorts of opportunity to change the rules, if that's what the Member wanted to

do. These rules were in place the last time there was a school board election in

this province in 2009. That government didn't see fit to change that then.

We have

had no suggestion to date to change the rules or to allow for stipulations for

voting during working hours, as I said. The polls opened 8 this morning. They'll

be open until 8 tonight. I encourage employers to give their employees, all of

them, an opportunity to take time and go and vote.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

So the

minister references a budget process. I'm not sure if he's saying it was too

expensive to do it, it was too costly. He did say he knowingly denied people

that right and that access.

The

Premier and this government has developed a pattern, Mr. Speaker, of handing out

government jobs to Liberal friends, contrary to the principle and the promise

they made during the election to take the politics out of all appointments.

I ask

the Premier: How many Liberal supporters, how many failed candidates, how many

former Liberal staffers have been hired since you took office last year?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well,

the IAC, the Independent Appointments Commission, is doing their job. They make

recommendations on behalf of the people of our province. They go through a very

intense scrutiny and they review the various applications.

encourage people in Newfoundland and Labrador and I can assure you there are

people that have been obviously taking

part in committee work in associations

and agencies right now that never ever thought they would ever get the

opportunity to serve their province in such a capacity. Mr. Speaker, in the

past, we've seen the former deputy premier make, what I'm told, up to 40

appointments in a day prior to the election.

So the

IAC, the Independent Appointments Commission, by five very prestigious people in

our province right now, are making the representation to the people of this

province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

I remind

all hon. Members that it's only the individual identified to speak that we wish

to hear from.

The hon.

the Leader of the Opposition.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. P. DAVIS:

Mr. Speaker, public service

jobs are historically and intended to be non-partisan positions. The clerk of

the Executive Council is the most senior public service job in the province, a

non-political position.

I ask

the Premier: What process did you use to select a former Liberal leadership

candidate as clerk of the Executive Council, what's supposed to be a

non-partisan position?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

respect the work that clerks do in this province. The outgoing clerk has done a

great job. She's now doing a great job in her capacity at Newfoundland and

Labrador Housing. I'm not going to remind anyone who she would have replaced in

that capacity and how that person would have gotten there, but the former clerk

is doing a great job. She's quite at task to go to work at Newfoundland and

Labrador Housing and doing a good job.

The

current clerk has a very long career in Newfoundland and Labrador both in a

legal fashion, also about working in public service I say, Mr. Speaker. There

was no political affiliation. He's doing great job there, gaining and earning

the respect of public service and earning the respect of Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians and very much in my say from my workings with him, is doing a great

job in doing so.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Leader of the

Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

I think I just heard the

Premier say the clerk has had no political affiliation when he was a leadership

candidate for the Liberal Party of Newfoundland and Labrador. I think that's

what the Premier just said, no political affiliation.

This is

the highest public service job in the province; the highest public service job

in the province. That should be non-partisan, no politics involved in any way,

and they appoint a former leadership candidate.

Premier,

why did you break your promise to take the politics out of appointments? This

was an appointment; you never took the politics out of it. Why did you break the

promise, the principle that you went to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador

with last year?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Well, I

think the former premier is actually when he speaks about the IAC or the

Independent Appointments Commission, this is a

(Disturbance in the gallery.)

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

Order,

please!

This

House is now in recess.

Recess

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

Before

we resume, I remind guests to the gallery, this is the people's House and you're

more than welcome to sit in the galleries and observe what happens on the floor

of the House, but interruptions from the gallery are not permitted.

I've

paused the clock on Question Period. We'll resume there was 10 minutes used on

Question Period. There's 15 minutes remaining for the Official Opposition and

five minutes for the Third Party. The time now is 2:02 p.m. The Opposition has

until 2:17 p.m.

The hon.

the Leader of the Opposition.

MR. P. DAVIS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I was

asking the Premier we were talking about the appointment of a former Liberal

leadership candidate to the Clerk's office.

I ask

the Premier: Why did you break your promise to the people of Newfoundland and

Labrador and make a political appointment when you promised not to do that?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

We have

put in place, through the Independent Appointments Commission, one of the best

processes that exist anywhere in this country. It far exceeds and replaces an

archaic political appointments system that the former administration put in

place. As I just mentioned earlier, the process that they had chosen was, in

some cases, to appoint up to 40 people, basically picking their people, who they

wanted, their friends or whoever it was and placing them politically.

The

clerk that's in place in this province right now comes from a very long,

distinguished career, representing Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, and he's

doing a very good job. I can assure you, he is doing the job on behalf of

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians and doing a very good job, bringing their

issues forward and making sure that legislation and this government functions

appropriately.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The

Liberals targeted removal of highly regarded officials from several non-partisan

roles in public service and replaced them with Liberal friends, which cost

taxpayers millions.

Will the

Premier table the breakdown, the full costs of terminating these employees,

including leave, severance and salary contingence?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There

have been a number of changes made in the management of Government of

Newfoundland and Labrador. Mr. Speaker, we have realized very early on that we

had the same number of deputy ministers if this is who the former minister is

talking about, but we had the same number of deputy ministers as the Province of

Ontario.

So, Mr.

Speaker, that was a footprint of government that was much too large for a

province the size of this. We did the same thing within our ADMs, I say;

communications, 30 per cent, a reduction.

Mr.

Speaker, these decisions have been made given the fiscal situation that we are

in as a province. We are decreasing the government footprint in our province.

We're not interested in wasting government money.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals

campaigned on taking politics out of appointments.

I ask

the Premier: What was the process to appoint a prominent Liberal as Consumer

Advocate? How any individuals were interviewed?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Premier.

PREMIER BALL:

Well, I'm happy to address

the question. The process to putting in the appointment came through the

Independent Appointments Commission, which is a very good piece of work that

they're doing. As I mentioned earlier, it doesn't really exist anywhere in this

country. It's a very good process that's being used.

I would

however say, Mr. Speaker, when you look at the Consumer Advocate and you look as

his resume, I would say that it was a political decision that took him out of

that position some years ago.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

PREMIER BALL:

Not a political decision to

put him back there.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

I ask the Premier again: How

many people were interviewed for that position?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm

happy to stand to this as the Consumer Advocate does fall under the Department

of Justice and Public Safety. As the Premier previously noted, this was the

first time that the Consumer Advocate or any of these tier-one positions

actually went to an independent commission to make sure that we had the best

people appointed to these positions to handle the finances and the public

affairs of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians.

In this

case, there was a very extensive process, one that was advertised. I'm not aware

of the number. I believe there were a number of individuals that applied for

this position and would have gone through the Independent Appointments

Commission process. I believe there were a number of interviews.

At the

end of it, Mr. Brown was the recommended candidate that was appointed, someone

that has previous experience with this position, has served Newfoundlanders and

Labradorians well. Given the fact that they are the advocate for the consumers

of this province, I'm very happy to have someone of that capability doing this

job to look out for the best interests of the people of this province.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Member for

Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

The Minister of Finance has

stated that no Liberal appointees will go into jobs that were eliminated this

fall.

I ask

the Premier: How does this account for the Minister of Education's

communications director?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

MR. KIRBY:

Mr. Speaker, the Member is

over there talking about the Independent Appointments Commission is somehow in

relation to line departments in government. The Independent Appointments

Commission was created to fill tier-one positions and tier-two positions in

agencies, boards, commissions, statutory offices, task forces and these sorts of

things.

When it

comes to line departments in government, the policy is exactly the same as it

was when the previous administration was in power and nothing has changed.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for

Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Taking the politics out of

appointments, that's the Liberal's campaign promise. Senior employees within the

government are being shuffled like a deck of cards with all of these

appointments coming through the backdoor.

What

changes has the minister made to the HR selection process?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I'm

certainly very happy to speak to this on behalf of the Minister of Finance and

President of Treasury Board. The fact is we all want the best people in position

for the people of this province. Certainly, there's been no change to the HR

process that we're aware of.

The big

change that has been made, though, is we've actually put in an Independent

Appointments Commission to ensure that we put the best people in positions here.

Unlike previous administrations who would put people in places and then take

them out and let them run election campaigns.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Member for

Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I ask

the Premier: Were there any other changes in ADMs, executive directors,

directors or other senior civil servants other than what you publicly released?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again,

I'm happy to stand here and speak to this. As the Premier previously noted, the

previous administration had a bloated administration, one that rivalled the size

of Ontario, which we all know certainly has a greater population. One of the

things we're trying to do to deal with the fiscal mess that has been left to us

is have a rightsized government, one that will still be responsive to the needs

of this province.

As the

Premier just said, we're not going to waste money. So we've done a number of

changes here that we think are in the best interest of the people of this

province. They've all been done through appropriate measures, certainly nothing

underhanded like the Member opposite would suggest.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, in late October

a number of assistant deputy minister positions were terminated from government.

I ask

the Premier: How many were replaced by former Liberal candidates and known

Liberal Party supporters?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again,

I'm happy to stand here and speak to this because one of the things we want to

do as a government coming in is to ensure that we provide the best governance to

the people of this province; something that we think has been lacking certainly

for a number of years.

The fact

is there have been a number of changes. One has been a reduction, I think of 20

per cent when it comes to these administrative positions. This was a previous

administration that over their time bloated the size of government to rival the

size of Ontario. We don't think it's a proper use of taxpayers' funding here. So

we think we have the best people in these positions, people that are going to

make policy decisions and legislative changes that are in the best interest of

the people of this province. Certainly, we're very happy to have everyone on our

team going forward in the same direction.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, we're not

questioning the reduction. We're asking about these political hires. The

Liberals campaigned on taking the politics out of appointments.

I ask

the Premier: What was the process to appoint a former Liberal candidate to the

role of assistant deputy minister for labour relations?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again,

I'm happy to stand here and speak to the changes that have happened in the

public service. Certainly, we know that in the previous administration a number

of executive assistants ended up in public service somehow through a process

that I'm not quite sure how it worked.

As it

relates to the ADM of labour relations, this is an individual who I believe, Mr.

Speaker, was actually hired by a PC administration and served in a similar role

to that for a number of years and strangely was removed after the change in

government in 2003. So, again, I would leave it to the other side to answer that

question.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

More broken promises, Mr.

Speaker.

I ask

the Minister of Natural Resources: Can she confirm that her newly appointed

assistant deputy minister of Royalties and Benefits was a Liberal candidate in

last year's general election?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Again, I

am happy to stand here and speak to the changes that we're making to ensure this

government works for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. There have been a

number of changes when it comes to ADMs in this province. The biggest part being

the reduction from an extremely bloated government that previously existed, one

that would just create positions they thought were in the best interest, but all

it was, was spending money.

There

are a number of people who have been hired .I don't know if the other side is

actually questioning the resume and questioning the qualifications of these

people because if you are, we'd like to hear what your questions are on that.

These people have all been hired with immaculate resumes. They're doing work in

the best interests of the people of this province.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

Not questioning

qualifications at all, Mr. Speaker.

Speaking

of resumes, let's talk about the application process. According to an ATIPP

response, this recent Liberal candidate I'm speaking of, contacted government

multiples prior to the announcement of her appointment asking for a job

description and every asked, and I quote: What am I getting myself into?

I ask

the minister: Shouldn't that discussion have already been had before she was

offered the job?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Again, Mr. Speaker, happy to

stand and speak to this. The fact is, although the Member opposite is not

questioning he is questioning the qualifications of these individuals.

Certainly, if he's not questioning the qualifications and if he does agree they

fit the bill and if they are the best individuals for the job, then I'm not sure

what the issue is.

Now, the

fact is we have a number of people who have expressed interest in working in

this administration because they like the direction that we're going in and they

like the processes that we're undertaking.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. A. PARSONS:

While we're at it, one of the

things we did inherit when we came in was over 40 appointments made by the

Member opposite on his last day in government.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, the folks

opposite are noisy today. I need to remind them they campaigned on a promise of

taking the politics out of appointments and they've done the opposite.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

The Liberals campaigned on

taking the politics out of appointments.

I ask

the Premier: Was the Public Service Commission involved in the hiring of the

newly appointment communications directors in the Department of Education and in

the Department of Advanced Education, Skills and Labour?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

MR. KIRBY:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

There's

some irony in this conversation because the Member who is asking the question,

in addition to appointing 40 people on the way out through the door, had no less

than two executive assistants at his behest. As the Member sitting next to him

had the same set up going on;

whereas, Cabinet ministers in this government have

one, as has been the tradition in government.

When it

comes to line departments in government, nothing has changed when it comes to

the hiring policy. If people are hired on a temporary basis, then they get to

the end of the process, they are interviewed. That's the way that it works, but

nothing has changed here at all.

I don't

know why the Member is alleging that these people are not qualified to do the

jobs they're doing. They're very obviously qualified. So I don't know what the

problem is.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Member for Mount

Pearl North.

MR. KENT:

The problem, I say to the

Education Minister, is that you promised to take the politics out of

appointments and you've done the exact opposite.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Communications positions are

non-political hires.

I ask

the Premier: Why was the Public Service Commission not used when you hired a

former Liberal staffer and close political friend of the Minister of Education

to senior communications positions in government?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Education and Early Childhood Development.

MR. KIRBY:

Mr. Speaker, I said this

already but I'll repeat myself because maybe the Member didn't hear what I said.

The Independent Appointments Commission was created to adjudicate appointments

to some 30-odd public bodies that are tier-one agencies and a number of others,

120-odd tier-two agencies that are statutory bodies and agencies, boards,

commissions, task forces and the like.

There's

a difference between appointments and hiring to departments. He was a Cabinet

minister and he's not aware of that difference? It doesn't surprise me that we

have the mess that we have on our hands today if he can't tell the simple

difference between hiring and appointments.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Mount

Pearl North, for a very quick question.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. KENT:

Mr. Speaker, they spent

millions of dollars sending qualified people out the door to appoint their

political friends.

Can the

Minister of Education explain why he terminated an experienced communications

director days after hiring his close political friend for the same position?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, what this

government has done is saved millions of dollars of taxpayers' money by reducing

the bloated service that this previous administration left us. There's been no

change to the Public Service Commission, but we do have an Independent

Appointments Commission to ensure that we hire the right people for tier-one and

tier-two jobs. Unlike previously where we saw many entities, such as College of

the North Atlantic, that were run by friends.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

Before I

recognize the Member for St. John's East Quidi Vidi, I will remind all hon.

Members again the volume in the Legislature today is getting to the point that

the Speaker is unable to hear Members speak. The only person I wish to hear

speaking at any given time is the person that I recognize to speak.

The hon.

Member for St. John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

Liberal election promise committed to improved management oversight at Nalcor. A

year after gaining power, the government's Muskrat Falls Oversight Committee has

been virtually silent, there is still an interim board at Nalcor and the EY

report is long overdue.

Given

the mounting costs and the ongoing engineering and environmental issues that

plague this project, I ask the Premier: When will he create a truly independent

oversight committee that produces regular public reports?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Natural Resources.

MS. COADY:

Thank you very much for the

question.

To my

hon. colleague I will say this: we've been diligent in our efforts over the last

number of months. The first act of this government was to bring EY in to do a

cost

schedule and oversight review of Nalcor. We had an interim report in April

that gave a number of very solid recommendations. We've been implementing those

recommendations.

As she

knows, we did put in an interim board in April. We followed the Independent

Appointments Commission process and we are within a very short period of time

before we have an expanded and what I would consider a very strong board at

Nalcor.

With

regard to the oversight committee, they are very active. They are reviewing.

They've been involved in, obviously, the methylmercury issue, the information

around the cost and the schedule. They're on top of this and we're very pleased

to report they are very active.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Cost oversight of an $11

billion project is crucial and long overdue.

So I ask

the Premier: Will he reverse the poor decision of the previous government and

place Nalcor under the full regulatory authority of the Public Utilities Board

which is there to protect the ratepayer and ensure reliable power generation?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Natural Resources.

MS. COADY:

Thank you very much.

As my

colleague in the House would have known, the Public Utilities Board was exempt

from this process from the former administration.

We are

working along a path now to make sure that the Muskrat Falls Project is on

track, Mr. Speaker. We are working very diligently toward that, making sure that

Nalcor is engaged in keeping that and the cost and

schedule is very tight as

possible. We have been and have been over the last number of years prior to

the project being sanctioned on top of this issue and we'll remain diligent,

Mr. Speaker, in bringing this project forward in the best possible way and

manner possible.

As we

know, Mr. Speaker, there have been a lot of concerns and a lot of challenges

around the Muskrat Falls Project. I can assure the people of the province, we

are working hard to get it on track.

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Mr. Speaker, seniors call my

office in despair. Their rents are increasing; they can't afford to feed

themselves properly or pay their heat bills. They are desperate and humiliated.

Dave has been on Newfoundland and Labrador Housing wait list for over a year and

says he's nearly starving. He's not alone. Our seniors need help now.

Mr.

Speaker, I ask the minister again: Will she create a portable rent subsidy

program for our seniors now so they can live in safety and dignity?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Children, Seniors and Social Development.

MS. GAMBIN-WALSH:

Mr. Speaker, the corporate

vision for the Newfoundland and Labrador Housing Corporation is for individuals

to have access to safe and secure housing. I stood in this House during the

first sitting and I said we would review rent supplements.

I'm

happy to report, Mr. Speaker, that that is well along. I met yesterday morning

and this morning with my team. I'm also happy to report, Mr. Speaker, that when

we started the review of the rent supplements, there was a realization that we

actually needed to review every single program and service at Newfoundland and

Labrador Housing.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Mr. Speaker, reviewing the

subsidies doesn't put food on the table or pay the heat bills.

Mr.

Speaker, Thomas lives in a horrendous boarding house in my district; bedbugs,

holes in walls, filth and inadequate food. His rent is paid by AESL and Health

and Community Services. He is one of many vulnerable people living in these

deplorable conditions. Hard-earned taxpayers' money is going directly into the

pocket of slum landlords.

I ask

the ministers: Why are they not ensuring taxpayers get better value for their

money by making sure these boarding houses are providing proper services?

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Advanced Education, Skills and Labour.

MR. BYRNE:

Mr. Speaker, any case which

presents a problem for the citizen, for the client, we would always encourage

this hon. Member, any Member from the House, and in particular the client, to

contact AESL, to contact Newfoundland and Labrador Housing, to reach out to the

Department of Health. There are people who can assist.

If there

are inadequate situations of housing, as described by this hon. Member, there

are solutions and there are people that can provide help in accessing those

solutions. We will endeavour to do that.

If the

hon. Member wants to provide a name after Question Period has convened, I would

be more than happy to provide some service.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The time for Question Period

has expired.

Presenting Reports by Standing and Select Committees.

Tabling

of Documents.

Notices

of Motion.

Notices of Motion

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Municipal Affairs.

MR. JOYCE:

Mr. Speaker, I'd like to give

notice that I will ask leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The

Vital Statistics Act, Bill 50.

MR. SPEAKER:

Further notices of motion?

Answers

to Questions for which Notice has been Given.

Petitions.

Petitions

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Member for St.

John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the

hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS

government has once again cut the libraries budget, threatening the closure of

54 libraries; and

WHEREAS

libraries are often the backbone of their communities, especially for those with

little access to government services where they offer learning opportunities and

computer access; and

WHEREAS

libraries and librarians are critical in efforts to improve the province's

literacy levels, which are among the lowest in Canada; and

WHEREAS

already strapped municipalities are not in a position to take over the operation

and cost of libraries;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the House

of Assembly to urge government to keep these libraries open and work on a

long-term plan to strengthen the library system.

And as

in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr.

Speaker, again, I am happy to stand here and present this library petition on

behalf of the people who've signed it. This petition here is signed by the

people from Cape St. George. Cape St. George is a small but bustling community

with impressive municipal facilities and services. The community is a bit of a

rarity in our province.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's Centre.

MS. ROGERS:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The

community is a bit of a rarity in our province. It is because it has both a

School. It's a fully bilingual facility. It's also an important public gathering

place and a hub of community activity. This library is at the very centre of

their community.

When the

kids in Cape St. George celebrated Halloween, the library was right in the

middle of things. Before long, the Mummers will be at the library to be part of

an annual Christmas event that has become a tradition in Cape St. George. The

librarian in the community drops off books and magazines to avid readers who

happen to be shut-ins and the library hosts public forums, for instance, on

mental health issues, employment insurance, nutrition and cancer, among other

things.

So as

you can see, Mr. Speaker, this library is so vital. It's not just about books.

It's not just about putting books on shelves or magazines on shelves. This is a

vibrant library that is so crucial to the health and the well-being of this

community. It's a place where kids can go meet their friends, take

part in story

time, develop an interest and a love for books. In short, the library in Cape

St. George is too important to the fabric of the community to let it die.

I am

proud to support the petition of the people of the community to keep this

facility open.

Thank

you very much, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

To the

hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS

Newfoundland and Labrador has the greatest percentage of the workforce earning

the provincial minimum wage in Canada, with women, youth and those from rural

areas making up a disproportionate number of these workers; and

WHEREAS

the minimum wage does not provide enough money for the necessities of life

because a person earning minimum wage working 40 hours a week will make between

$21,320 and $21,840, which is barely above the low income cut-off of $$20,065

for St. John's, and a working couple on minimum wage with two children will also

make close to low income; and

WHEREAS

in 2012 the Minimum Wage Review Committee recommended an increase in the minimum

wage in 2013 to reflect the loss of purchasing power since 2010 and an annual

adjustment beginning in 2014 to reflect the Consumer Price Index;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the House

of Assembly to urge government to legislate an immediate increase in the minimum

wage to restore the loss of purchasing power since 2010 and an annual adjustment

to the minimum wage beginning in 2016 to reflect the Consumer Price Index.

And as

in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr.

Speaker, the workers in this province have been signing these petitions now for

well over a year. They are people who are desperate, people who are living on

minimum wage, sometimes two and three jobs in order to make enough money for

their families. The minimum wage, basically, is a poverty wage or at the edge of

living in poverty. They are waiting for some action. They have been waiting now

for years, since 2010, since the report came out, for action from governments

who are doing nothing for them.

There is

a myth that raising the minimum wage costs jobs. What's been proven by study

after study is that in actual fact the economy is helped by the minimum wage

going up. The Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives studied minimum wage

increases and found that in 90 per cent of the instances there was no

statistically significant connection between the increase in the minimum wage

and labour market outcomes. Yet, those opposed to it like to say you are going

to have job loss, the economy is going to go down and, in actual fact, it's the

opposite.

In the

cases where there was a statistically significant connection between the two,

four out of seven outcomes were negative and three were actually positive.

Mr.

Speaker, I implore the minister to really take action. He keeps saying he's

going to do something. He got upset last week when we implied he is doing

nothing. So far, he is doing nothing.

Thank

you.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for Cape

St. Francis.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Thank you very much, Mr.

Speaker.

To the

House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in Parliament

assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents of Newfoundland and

Labrador humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS

the ground fishery has been the cornerstone of our province's culture and

economy for generations; and

WHEREAS

there is scientific and anecdotal evidence that cod stocks are increasing off

our shores; and

WHEREAS

current fishers are having trouble securing buyers for their product;

WHEREUPON the undersigned petitioners humbly pray and call upon the House of

Assembly to urge government to take immediate action to develop markets for

groundfish within our province and with our trade partners.

And as

in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr.

Speaker, I've stood up in the House of Assembly before and I've talked about the

resurgence of the cod fishery. Again, it's a part of who we are as

Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. We can never forget the fishery and what it's

done for generations and what it's done for Newfoundland and Labrador,

especially rural Newfoundland and Labrador. It's an important part.

I can

remember growing up and being involved in the fishery with my father and family.

When I went to the Southern Shore, to different parts of the Southern Shore,

there was a fish plant in Witless Bay, there was a fish plant in Bay Bulls,

there was a fish plant in Tors Cove, one in Fermeuse and further on up the shore

in Ferryland. It was the centre focus of rural Newfoundland. People were

excited, people were employed. Young people got jobs in the summertime.

We look

at our economy today and we talk about diversification. Well, we have something

right in our hands right now that can help diversify our economy and just make

our economy even more active and keep people in rural Newfoundland, keep people

in our communities.

Our cod

fishery is coming back. I've experienced it myself, Mr. Speaker. I go to the

recreational cod fishery. The last number of years in talking to fishermen, they

tell me they've never seen the like. We had four boats go out on Flatrock this

weekend fishing in the middle of November; never, ever heard of it before in my

district that you'd see fishermen on the water in the middle of November. They

came in with great catches.

Most of

them only had four or five nets in the water and came in with 14 and 15 pans of

cod. That's amazing. For this time of year it's amazing. I think our government

really has to put a focus on this. It's something they're not doing; it's

something that fishermen are asking for. They want markets. They need to

understand where they're going to sell the fish. As it increases we need to get

a place to sell our fish.

Right

now, most of the fishermen are selling their fish through fillets to people that

want to buy it like that because there are absolutely no markets available. As a

government, you should be responsible for making sure that next year it's

going to get bigger again and we need to develop markets.

Thank

you very much, Mr. Speaker.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. Member for

Conception Bay East Bell Island.

MR. BRAZIL:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

To the

hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador in

Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS

the education of children is one of the most important and vital investments

that can be made in the success of children; and

WHEREAS

the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador should be choosing educational

options that will provide all students of our province with a higher standard of

education and an enhanced learning experience for our youth; and

WHEREAS

the government's decision to make cuts to teachers and to our education system

will have a negative effect on the students;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the House

of Assembly to urge government to reverse the decision effective immediately.

Mr.

Speaker, it's ironic that I get up and speak to something as important as

education on a day when we're having a school board election. I say that because

I have to compliment those people who put their name forward. I've managed to

talk to nine of the candidates from different zones and had a very intense

conversation. I was very impressed with their skill set, with their

understanding of the school system, but particularly about their commitment of

reversing some of the decisions that have been made that they know and they've

identified that are detrimental to our education system and particularly to our

students.

Most are

putting their names forward because they want to right the wrongs that have been

done over the last 12 months. They want to go back and take a real look at where

our education system is and outline a proper way to invest for our young people.

They've

looked at things from what's been lost over the last 12 months. The mess we have

around overcrowded schools; the mess we have around the loss of core French;

under resourced, all-day kindergarten we put in play; overcrowded schools;

proper lunch programs not being taken into account when you have so many

volunteers who give so much of their time. All they needed was a little bit of

extra support or some dialogue to be able to prepare to make sure nobody was

left out. The busing mess that we have right now, these are all issues they put

forward.

They

talked about teachers who talk about the resources they need and the ability

with the blended classrooms, the challenges they have around that; the special

needs students. All these are important issues that have been neglected by this

administration over the last 12 months.

The

school board elections will at least bring this to the forefront and the

individuals who are running on those campaigns, they want to improve the

education system. They want to first go back and correct the wrongs and then

move our education system forward because we have great people in our education

system; great educators, great administrators, great volunteers, great support

mechanisms.

We have

the right mechanism to do it but we can't do it when we're constantly making

decisions that are detrimental to everybody who are key stakeholders here. That

goes particularly around the volunteer sectors out there. The school councils

who raise money to do special programs and services, because they realize they

have a stake in the betterment of education for the students and their children

in these respective schools, but every time they take a step forward, last year

they were putting two back because there's been no dialogue. There has been no

inclusion about what we need to do. Then you add on the sidelines, you got

things like the cutting of libraries that has a major impact.

Mr.

Speaker, while this is a monumental day here when we have our elections, I'm

looking forward to working with those zone-elected individuals to improve our

education system.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Member for the

District of Mount Pearl Southlands.

MR. LANE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

petition to the hon. House of Assembly of the Province of Newfoundland and

Labrador in Parliament assembled, the petition of the undersigned residents

humbly sheweth:

WHEREAS

many students within our province depend on school busing for transportation to

and from school each day; and

WHEREAS

there have been a number of buses removed from service over the past few weeks

for safety reasons, calling into question the current inspection and enforcement

protocols for school buses in the province: and

WHEREAS

there have been concerns raised by members of the busing industry regarding

government's tendering practices as it relates to the provision of school bus

services in the province; and

WHEREAS

there are many parents throughout the province who have raised both scheduling

policy, the courtesy-seating policy, the new double-bus-run schedule, as well as

the overcrowding on school buses;

WHEREUPON the undersigned, your petitioners, humbly pray and call upon the House

of Assembly to urge the Government of Newfoundland and Labrador to strike an

all-party committee on school busing to consult with stakeholders and make

recommendations to government for the improvement to the school busing system in

our province.

And as

in duty bound, your petitioners will ever pray.

Mr.

Speaker, I'm presenting this petition again today. I've had plenty of calls and

emails and so on from individuals who have concerns about school busing in the

province. I've raised this issue on the 1.6-kilometre school busing and so on

for the last two or three years. I will continue to do so on behalf of parents

who have concerns.

I am

glad to see that there are matters which I'm hearing are going to be addressed

as it relates to inspections, which is good, but it certainly does nothing to

address the 1.6-kilometre rule, it does nothing to address the double bus runs

and all the concerns parents have around that.

I will

continue to bring this forward until we see some answers.

Thank

you, Mr. Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Orders of the Day, Mr.

Speaker.

MR. SPEAKER:

Orders of the Day.

Orders of the Day

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded

by the Minister of Municipal Affairs for leave to introduce a bill entitled, An

Act Respecting The Relocation Of Certain Communities In The Province, Bill 47,

and I further move that the said bill be now read a first time.

MR. SPEAKER:

It has been moved and

seconded that the hon. the Government House Leader shall have leave to introduce

Bill 47 and that the said bill shall be now read a first time.

Is it

the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

MR. SPEAKER:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

Motion,

the hon. the Minister of Municipal Affairs to introduce a bill,

An Act

Respecting The Relocation Of Certain Communities In The Province, carried.

(Bill 47)

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Clerk.

CLERK (Ms. Barnes):

A bill,

An Act Respecting

The Relocation Of Certain Communities In The Province. (Bill 47)

MR. SPEAKER:

This bill has now been read a

first time.

When

shall the said bill be read a second time?

MR. A. PARSONS:

Tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER:

Tomorrow.

motion, Bill 47 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded

by the Minister of Municipal Affairs, for leave to introduce a bill entitled, An

Act To Amend The Hydro Corporation Act, 2007, Bill 48, and I further move that

the said bill be now read a first time.

MR. SPEAKER:

It is moved and seconded by

the hon. Government House Leader that he shall have leave to introduce a bill,

Bill 48, and that the said bill shall now be read a first time.

Is it

the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

MR. SPEAKER:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

Motion,

the hon. the Minister of Natural Resources to introduce a bill,

An Act To Amend

The Hydro Corporation Act, 2007, carried. (Bill 48)

CLERK:

A bill,

An Act To Amend The

Hydro Corporation Act, 2007. (Bill 48)

MR. SPEAKER:

This bill has now been read a

first time.

When

shall the said bill be read a second time?

MR. A. PARSONS:

Tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER:

Tomorrow.

motion, Bill 48 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded

by the Minister of Advanced Education, for leave to introduce a bill entitled,

An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, 2000 No. 6, Bill 49, and I further move that

the said bill be now read a first time.

MR. SPEAKER:

It is moved and seconded by

the hon. the Government House Leader that he shall have leave to introduce Bill

49 and that the said bill shall now be read a first time.

Is it

the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

MR. SPEAKER:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

Motion,

the hon. the Minister of Finance and President of Treasury Board to introduce a

bill,

An Act To Amend The Income Tax Act, 2009 No. 6, carried. (Bill 49)

CLERK:

A bill,

An Act To Amend The

Income Tax Act, 2000 No. 6. (Bill 49)

MR. SPEAKER:

This bill has now been read a

first time.

When

shall the said bill be read a second time?

MR. A. PARSONS:

Tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER:

Tomorrow.

motion, Bill 49 read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorrow.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, Order 2, third

reading of Bill 42.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded

by the Minister of Service NL, that Bill 42,

An Act To Amend The Highway Traffic

Act No. 3, be now read a third time.

MR. SPEAKER:

It is moved and seconded that

Bill 42 be now read a third time.

Is it

the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

MR. SPEAKER:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

CLERK:

A bill,

An Act To Amend The

Highway Traffic Act No. 3. (Bill 42)

MR. SPEAKER:

Bill 42 has now been read a

third time and it is ordered that the bill do pass and its title be as on the

Order Paper.

motion, a bill,

An Act To Amend The Highway Traffic Act No. 3, read a third

time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill 42)

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded

by the Minister of Municipal Affairs, that the House resolve itself into a

Committee of the Whole to consider Bill 44.

MR. SPEAKER:

The motion is that the House

resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole to debate Bill 44. Is it the

pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

MR. SPEAKER:

Those against?

Carried.

motion, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole, the Speaker

left the Chair.

Committee of the

Whole

CHAIR (Dempster):

Order, please!

We are

now considering Bill 44,

An Act To Amend The Municipalities Act, 1999.

A bill,

An Act To Amend The Municipalities Act, 1999. (Bill 44)

CLERK:

Clause 1.

CHAIR:

Shall clause 1 carry?

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against oh, I'm

sorry.

MR. K. PARSONS:

I'm pretty small. It's hard

to see me, Madam Chair.

CLERK:

I can't say it's Monday.

The

Chair recognizes the hon. Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Yes, in debate yesterday I

had some questions to ask. I really like this bill. I think it's a great bill,

but there are some questions that I'd like to ask.

Most

municipalities in Newfoundland and Labrador deal with a lot of small communities

and in those communities you'll see a lot of members on council that are

related. One thing you always do when you become a council member is to

understand the conflict of interest and how it works within municipalities.

question to the minister is I know it requires two-thirds of a vote to go

through council, but is there any other mechanism where because sometimes in

small communities, you look at family members and three or four members of that

family could be on a council. So it will be a job to get the two-thirds of a

vote or whatever. Conflict of interest is usually addressed at the council level

and not the municipal level. My question is how are you going to look at this

when it comes to conflict of interest?

CHAIR:

The hon. the Minister of

Municipal Affairs and Service NL.

MR. JOYCE:

Madam Chair, he may be hard

to see but it's easy to listen to him.

My good

friend and great colleague, thank you for the question. It's the same right now

in the municipalities. I'll give you a good example. It's a great question

because there are a lot of times in municipalities where you're related.

Right

now under the municipalities act, if a councillor, for example, wants to do some

work for the town or a family member for the town; they can get an exemption

from the minister. What they can do is council can explain the situation they

can't get two-thirds votes.

You

always have to remember that anytime, even with the two-thirds vote, it has to

be approved by the minister, but if there's conflict of interest which is deemed

by if there are five or six councillors and three or four says I can't, the

minister can then approve that, like he does now.

I know

the former minister had occasions where councillors wanted to get on certain

programs or certain councillors where a family member, they'd excuse themselves

and ask if they could be hired, and they're still on the council. So the

minister can give exemptions to that if written to the minister and explained to

him.

CHAIR:

All those in favour of clause

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, clause 1 carried.

CLERK:

Clause 2.

CHAIR:

Shall clause 2 carry?

The hon.

the Member for St. John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you very much, Madam

Chair.

Yesterday, when I spoke in second reading, I did throw out some questions with

regard to clause 2 which deals with the local service district naming and

marking all the highways within the local service district and requiring owners

of buildings on the highways to number the buildings and also giving them the

right, actually, to charge a fee for the numbering. I threw out some questions

and the minister may have answers to them today.

I have

concerns, and concerns that have been expressed to me by people who live in

local service districts. One of the questions has to do with fairness. Is there

going to be a fee that the department comes up with to say it will be the same

fee everywhere? Will they do an analysis of what exactly would create a cost and

have that put down as or even a range of a fee, has any thought gone into

that?

I've

also had a concern expressed that the local service districts don't have the

mechanism to deal with many of them, some might, but many of them do not have

the mechanism to deal with the actual collection of fees and the administration

of fees. That's a major concern. If a local service district wanted to do it, is

the department there to give them resources to help them? Human resources or

whatever to help them do it?

Another

question that's been raised is that I had one person speak to me, for example,

who lives in a LSD where they've done the numbering. It's all been done. That

person raised the question, well, is this going to be retroactive? Are they

going to be able to say now since this legislation is in place that they can now

charge a fee for having done the work?

These

are legitimate questions that have been coming to me. I really would like to

hear a response from the minister about how he hopes this would be able to work,

and work smoothly and work for the benefit of everybody. Would the fee be the

same? For example, some of the buildings on the highways are residences and some

of the buildings are businesses, so is everybody going to be paying the same?

So there

are quite a number of questions that have come forward. I do put out that even

though the minister was hopeful that people won't mind this, I'd like to suggest

to him that some people may mind because they'll say well municipalities didn't

charge a fee. Now we know people living in municipalities pay taxes, but that

doesn't seem to matter to some people living in LSDs. They still will throw that

out.

Certainly, we know there was quite a reaction when Eastern Waste Management

wanted to collect $180 as an annual garbage collection. So are we going to have

people saying, well, I only live in that house during the summer, I only go

there a few times a year and it's not going to be a major emergency issue in my

case if I don't have a number?

We've

heard crazy things being put out there, and I think we might hear things being

put out around this one as well. So I'd just like the minister to speak to us

about, have they looked at some of these issues?

Thank

you.

CHAIR:

The hon. the Minister of

Municipal Affairs and Service NL.

MR. JOYCE:

Madam Chair, I have to say

that I'm kind of puzzled by the questions and I'll explain to you why. LSDs

asked for this. They actually asked for this, to have this done.

there's anybody out there in the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador anybody

in a city, town, LSD feels that this is a waste of money to have their house

numbered for safety; we have concerns about that because it hasn't been

expressed to the department. Not one person in the province that came to my

attention is concerned about this. I'm not saying they didn't come to your

office, I'm just saying they didn't come to me.

The

second thing I'll put out to you, under this act, LSDs can charge what it cost

to put the numbers in. LSDs want that. The second thing, as we speak, LSDs can

charge fees already. So being able to charge a fee, it's already within the LSD.

The

third thing, if they have problems there are two things with that. One, if

they have problems collecting a fee, it's up to the LSDs to police themselves.

If not, if there's an LSD a regional waste management authority, as an

example, the Eastern authority. They have the authority to go with communities

and collect fees if they want that done. There are many mechanisms for them to

collect the fees, but I can assure the Member I hope that answers your

question. That's the three questions that I noticed.

Saying

they might charge more than it costs, they can charge as we speak now. LSDs can

charge fees now, what they please. If people don't want to pay, they have no

mechanism. They have no property tax; they don't have water and sewer where they

can turn on and off the water. In some cases they may, but that's the authority.

I guess that's why they want to remain an LSD.

But I

can tell the hon. House, that to my personal knowledge as the minister, I

haven't received one call from any person in an LSD that this is a concern or

they may be charged too much or they're already being charged. People in the

LSDs that we spoke to want this for safety; they want this to ensure their

safety, if they have fires, if there's an emergency. So if there's anybody who

got any concerns they can contact me, but to date I haven't received one.

CHAIR:

The hon. the Member for

Ferryland.

MR. HUTCHINGS:

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Madam

Chair, I had a question for the minister in regard to civic addressing as well.

Yesterday in debate I mentioned it in regard to the availability of some data

they could already possibly collect in regard to civic addressing and through

the waste management initiative that's been developed over the past number of

years.

Eastern

Waste Management, I know in our particular area, would have gone in and

identified various structures in regard to implementing buildings for waste

management. Some of that data in regard to civic addressing would retain with an

organization like Eastern Waste Management.

I wonder

we've got to go through this process again in regard to getting it for this

reason, and we know it's an important reason to obtain that information and why

it is. Is there any interconnection with someone like Eastern Waste Management,

where that information is already collected, and could that be accessed to

provide that information now?

CHAIR:

The hon. the Minister of

Municipal Affairs and Service NL.

MR. JOYCE:

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Great

question; the answer is yes. We met with Eastern Waste Management. They have a

lot of that work done, as you know as a former minister. They have a lot of that

work done and a lot of civic addressing done for their own collection.

They

said they're willing to share that information. The LSDs, they know that, and

the LSDs can approach Eastern Waste Management or other waste managements in the

area. If they haven't done that, they can phone. I know when we met with the

chair of Eastern Waste Management here in St. John's they were willing to share

that information to anybody that would need it.

So it's

a great question. Yes, they do have it, and yes, they will share whatever they

got to ensure the safety of the people in the province.

CHAIR:

The hon. the Member for St.

John's East Quidi Vidi.

MS. MICHAEL:

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Minister, I have another question, and I agree with you. We all agree that

having civic numbers is absolutely essential for emergency we all realize that

for fires, for anything, health, whatever reasons. We know that for

emergencies in particular the civic numbering is really important.

I'm not

saying this is not a good move; it needs to be done. But I'd like to know from

the minister, is there going to be a monitoring? Has he and the department

looked at even a deadline for when we would have civic numbers all over the

province?

This is

leaving it in the hands of the LSDs who they may do it so the permission is

there for them to do it. They can charge a fee. While I accept what the minister

has said that they're LSDs who've asked for it, there may also still be some who

aren't as organized as another one that may not have the ability to do it. Will

there be any monitoring of when we would have the whole province with civic

numbers?

CHAIR:

The hon. the Minister of

Municipal Affairs and Service NL.

MR. JOYCE:

Thank you, Madam Chair.

It is a

great question. The idea of getting civic addressing is for the Next Generation

911; that's the idea. Right now it would help in some areas. In the City of

Corner Brook, it would help the fire department. But a lot of the LSDs and where

the Next Generation is going to use GPS to get in on a house, hone in on a

house, that's when it's very important. MNL has been very supportive of this.

They've been pushing it through.

MNL has

been pushing for this for the municipalities under their umbrella. We have

contacted most LSDs; a lot of LSDs have contacted us. We will give them whatever

support we can. We will have a promotion when it gets close to the Next

Generation of who hasn't got it done. That is a great question because we can't

force anybody in LSD to do it, but we can definitely point to them and lead them

in right direction, the reason why it should be done.

So we

are willing to work with all LSDs. We will be sending out reminders when we get

closer to the Next Generation. Municipalities Newfoundland and Labrador is at

every convention and pushing for it. The best we can do is educate people,

support the LSD, support the municipalities that it is a safety issue and we

will be monitoring which ones every year, or every six or seven months we're

seeing how many are done and how many are not done, so we're trying to collect

the data for that. That's going to be helping through the 911 system who is

asking us to get that.

So it is

a great question. I encourage anybody who is listening to get their civic

addressing done. And I'll just give an example; we were at a meeting last night,

myself and the minister of fisheries and agriculture, Bristol's Hope, LSD.

(Inaudible) they're just non-incorporated. They have civic addresses in every

house in Bristol's Hope. That is taking such a forward step and such forward

thinking that it's so great to hear 300 people now have civic addresses. They

did it on their own for safety reasons, for fire.

So I

encourage all LSDs, all municipalities who haven't got it done, get it done and

I'll give you a good example out in York Harbour; I'm very familiar with York

Harbour. York Harbour, they have their civic addressing. If someone puts up a

house where there is no house, it does not change. So that's the kind of stuff

we have to work on.

It's a

great question, we will be monitoring them and we will be helping out wherever

we can. We will be encouraging through a public education program to ensure that

everybody has a civic address because it is for public safety.

So thank

you for your question.

CHAIR:

All those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against?

Carried.

motion, clause 2 carried.

CLERK:

Be it enacted by the Lieutenant Governor and House of Assembly in Legislative

session convened, as follows.

CHAIR:

Shall the enacting clause

carry?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, enacting clause carried.

CLERK:

An Act To Amend The

Municipalities Act, 1999.

CHAIR:

Shall the

long title carry?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

motion, title carried.

CHAIR:

Shall I report Bill 44

carried without amendment?

All

those in favour, 'aye.'

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against, 'nay.'

Carried.

Motion,

that the Committee report having passed the bill without amendment, carried.

CHAIR:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

I move that the Committee

rise and report Bill 44.

CHAIR:

The motion is that the

Committee rise and report Bill 44.

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

CHAIR:

All those against?

Carried.

motion, that the Committee rise, report progress and ask leave to sit again, the

Speaker returned to the Chair.

MR. SPEAKER (Osborne):

The hon. the Deputy

Speaker.

MS. DEMPSTER:

Mr. Speaker, the Committee of

the Whole have considered the matters to them referred and have asked that I

report Bill 44 carried without amendment.

MR. SPEAKER:

The Chair of the Committee of

the Whole reports that the Committee have considered the matters to them

referred and have directed her to report Bill 44 carried without amendment.

When

shall the report be received?

MR. A. PARSONS:

Now.

MR. SPEAKER:

Now.

When

shall the said bill be read a third time?

MR. A. PARSONS:

Now.

MR. SPEAKER:

Now.

motion, report received and adopted. Bill ordered read a third time presently,

by leave.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I call Order 3,

third reading of Bill 44.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Municipal Affairs and Service NL.

MR. JOYCE:

Mr. Speaker, I'll just take a

second. I just want to thank everybody who participated in debate. Great

questions and a chance to ask people to encourage it; great questions about

municipalities and I just want to thank everybody who participated in the

debate.

This is

a bill that's going to help municipalities with a lot of paperwork and help a

lot of towns. Also, it's a safety issue. I thank all the Members in the House of

Assembly who promoted safety to all the LSDs and all the towns through this

debate. I just want to recognize that.

Again,

this is a bill for the House of Assembly. It's not a Liberal, PC, NDP or

Independent bill; this is another bill.

Thank

you.

MR. SPEAKER:

Are you moving and seconding

the bill?

MR. JOYCE:

This is third reading.

MR. SPEAKER:

Is it the pleasure of the

House to adopt the motion?

All

those in favour?

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Aye.

MR. SPEAKER:

Against?

Carried.

CLERK:

A bill,

An Act To Amend The

Municipalities Act, 1999. (Bill 44)

MR. SPEAKER:

This bill has now been read a

third time and it is ordered that the bill do pass and its title be as on the

Order Paper.

motion, a bill,

An Act To Amend The Municipalities Act, 1999, read a third

time, ordered passed and its title be as on the Order Paper. (Bill 44)

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Government House

Leader.

MR. A. PARSONS:

Mr. Speaker, I call Order 5,

second reading of Bill 46.

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Municipal Affairs.

MR. JOYCE:

Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded

by the Government House Leader, that we now read Bill 46,

An Act Respecting

Procurement By Public Bodies and that the bill be read the second time.

MR. SPEAKER:

It is moved and seconded that

Bill 46 be now read a second time.

Motion,

second reading of a bill,

An Act Respecting Procurement By Public Bodies.

(Bill 46)

MR. SPEAKER:

The hon. the Minister of

Municipal Affairs.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. JOYCE:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank

you for the opportunity to speak on this bill.

I rise

in this hon. House today to open debate on the introduction of

An Act Respecting

Procurement By Public Bodies. At present, the province's legislation governing

purchases by public bodies is the Public

Tender Act .

Public

tendering governs the acquisition of goods, services, public works and leasing

of space by government-funded bodies in the province. It is an important piece

of legislation because it influences buying by all public bodies. This includes

municipalities, health boards, school boards, academic institutions, Crown

corporations and government.

The act

is decades old and has not been substantially amended since it was enacted.

Changes have been needed for some time and modernizing the procurement in our

province is a priority for our government. It was one of the platform

commitments that were included as one of the 50 initiatives in

The Way Forward vision that we

recently launched. Modernizing procurement is important because public bodies

influence a lot of economic activity in the province.

A recent Atlantic Provinces Economic Council study noted

Provincial Government procurement and capital spending totalled $4 billion

combined in 2014. This speaks to the magnitude of purchasing by public bodies in

our province and the need to have legislation in place that focuses on best

practices and achieves best value for dollars spent.

Mr. Speaker, the key benefits of this bill include:

promoting enhanced oversight and transparency; providing greater flexibility to

help public bodies purchase what they need; increased consistency in procurement

practices used by public bodies across the province; limiting exemptions for

Nalcor and the Research Development Corporation; and, creating the opportunity

to update the thresholds governing buying activity. I want to take this

opportunity to talk about each one of these in a little greater detail.

With respect to promoting enhanced oversight and

transparency, under the new act the Government Purchasing Agency will become the

public procurement agency.

This change is meant to increase focus on the agency's strengthened role in

providing oversight over procurement by all bodies. As part of this, the chief

procurement officer's role and the procurement advisory council will be

established to oversee the public procurement activities across the province.

Madam

Speaker, the chief procurement officer will be selected through the Independent

Appointments Commission process. The advisory council will be comprised of

officials from provincial public bodies. In addition, professional services that

were previously not included in the Public

Tender Act will now be subject to greater oversight than ever before.

I'm also

pleased to note that this new act will allow us to put new regulations and

policies in place in the coming months. These regulations and policies will make

the procurement process more transparent for vendors and allow public bodies

more opportunity to hold suppliers accountable for their performance.

Madam

Speaker, this act also provides greater flexibility in the way public bodies

purchase what they need. The previous approach encouraged tenders over requests

for proposals or RFPs. The new act will make it easier to use additional

approaches such as RFPs and calls for expressions of interest.

This new

act will allow increased consistency in procurement practices, specifically in

terms of the timelines used for procurement process, the sharing of information

between buyers and suppliers, and the application of procurement policies. This

new act will promote greater consistency in the approach used by all public

bodies.

This new

act would also limit exemptions for Nalcor and the Research & Development

Corporation. Procurement activities by those entities such as buying office

space, supplies and furnishings were not within the scope of the legislation

before but are now included. Nalcor's exemptions are now limited to the

following situations: procurement involving energy and energy products;

strategic partnership, joint ventures or equity investments with other public

bodies or private sector entities; or to meet the requirement of a benefits

agreement.

The

Research & Development Corporation's exemption is limited to procurement for

research and development purposes unrelated to the daily operations of these

corporations. These exemptions are necessary and responsive to the nature of the

work carried out by their entities. I want to note, that public reporting will

be required on any remaining exempted activities.

Finally,

Madam Speaker, this act includes the benefits creating the opportunity to update

the thresholds governing buying activity. As Minister of Municipal Affairs, I'm

very aware that this has been a concern for many communities in our province.

Many representatives from public bodies stated in consultations that the current

thresholds for requiring open calls for bids are too low. This increases the red

tape involved in small scale procurement and prevents public bodies from being

able to buy locally. The new act creates opporinity to respond to these issues

through regulatory changes and will allow government to increase thresholds and

address these problems.

Madam

Speaker, I am proud to be introducing this bill so early in our government's

mandate. Establishing this act is a vital first step in a process of modernizing

public procurement in Newfoundland and Labrador. Our government is delivering

this act within six months from the launch of

The Way Forward vision just as we promised. Next steps will include

selecting a chief procurement officer, finalizing regulations and policies and

training buyers and vendors which is very important. We anticipate this work

will take place over the course of 2017.

I will

conclude my comments now by noting The Way

Forward: A Vision for Sustainability and Growth in Newfoundland and Labrador

was recently launched by our government to identify ways to make improvements in

our province without driving costs. Our vision focuses in four areas: one,

achieving a more efficient public sector; two, building a stronger economic

foundation; three, providing better service; four, supporting better outcomes.

Madam

Speaker, by modernizing the procurement to achieve these best values for the

dollars, I am pleased to say our government is delivering on each of those

areas.

Madam

Speaker, I'm just going to take a minute on the other side, just speaking for

myself when I was in Opposition and dealing with municipalities. MNL has

supported this wholeheartedly. Just to give an example and I know the Member

for Cape St. Francis is well aware of this also. When you're on council and you,

for example, had a waterline break, if it was over $20,000 you had to go to

tender. By the time you went to tender and moved up the tender process, it's a

month or two months down the road.

Now

we're going to increase it up to $50,000. That does two things. This is just for

municipalities. There are a lot more great examples. For example, that allows

that if there's a problem with municipalities, you go out and get three quotes

instead of going through the tendering process. The three quotes then, you can

have it locally, instead of and this is a big thing, municipalities get a lot

of local suppliers then that can't partake, and this is just one example. When

the work is done up to $50,000, I just want the Province of Newfoundland and

Labrador to know that that three quotes and how it was awarded by council has to

be sent in and put on the website for the public procurement officer.

So you

just can't have three quotes in a town and say, okay, we got it done. It has to

be sent in. They will be monitoring it in the public procurement office. This is

a great move for municipalities. This is just one.

Buying

supplies if it's over $10,000 then you have to go out and do the public

tender. Just imagine the work itself for supplies that every time you had to put

it to public tender. This here reduces the red tape, and I know the previous

government has been trying to reduce red tape in the Province of Newfoundland

and Labrador for years. This is a prime example of how we're going to reduce red

tape for municipalities, for vendors in this province, for businesses. It's a

great opportunity for a friendly business atmosphere, Madam Speaker, in the

Province of Newfoundland and Labrador.

I know

we're going to get into debate much later. I know there are going to be some

questions asked about it. But I can say, Madam Speaker and I'm sure the

Opposition, the Third Party and the Independent are going to support this. I'll

tell you why we're going to have unanimous support again in the House of

Assembly. This is what municipalities, this is what the people of Newfoundland

and Labrador wanted, this is what the business community wanted. We delivered

what they wanted.

I'm

confident again that if there's some way we can strengthen this legislation, I'm

open for it. But I feel very confident with the public consultations that we

had, the best opportunity we have now to increase business for rural

Newfoundland and Labrador, to have more transparency and bring more under the

umbrella of what can and will not be under the

Public Procurement Act , will be in this bill.

I'm very

confident once again because we're all working together in this House of

Assembly for the good of Newfoundland and Labrador that we will have unanimous

consent on this I'm sure there's going to be questions, which there should be.

But I'm very confident that once again we're going to show the people of

Newfoundland and Labrador that this Legislature is working together for the

betterment of people of Newfoundland and Labrador, and this bill will pass with

unanimous consent in the House of Assembly.

I know

my friend, the Member for Cape St. Francis, who was a municipal leader in his

past, will stand and support this, because he knows how good this is. I know his

councils are saying we need this, we got to have this done; and I look across at

the former minister, the Member for Ferryland, he mentioned to me many times

that yes, there's a lot of great information in this and we need it done. So I

feel very confident that the Members opposite are going to support this because

it's great for Newfoundland and Labrador.

I look

forward to their support. Madam Speaker, when the support is done, I will stand

up like I always do and thank the Members opposite for their support because

it's great for Newfoundland and Labrador.

Thank

you.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MADAM SPEAKER (Dempster):

The Speaker

recognizes the hon. Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Thank you very much, Madam

Speaker.

I want

to thank the staff over to Municipal Affairs for the great briefing they gave us

yesterday. And I want to ensure the minister that we are good friends, but I can

assure the minister also that we will have lots of questions and there are lots

of questions on this bill. And I hope that he will listen to some of the stuff

that we have to offer to make this and we really want to make sure that this

bill is done proper. There will be questions and probably some amendments that

will come forward.

Madam

Speaker, it was the PC government who were working on this for years and had a

great deal of the ground work done. The first reading of

Public Procurement Act was given in 2012, but the legislation did

not advance at the time. The Liberals are pushing the legislation to be done, no

doubt. Although they will boast today they're moving ahead where others didn't,

the fact is that we are pushing many of these details of legislation into

regulations to be dealt with later. That means that Cabinet will have to deal

with many of these details later. There are 20 categories of regulations

described in

section 28 and 29 of the bill. There is a broad exemption in

section 7. The bill leaves many unknowns.

Under

section 36, we don't even know when Cabinet will proclaim the bill. The

regulations have to be written yet, the act has to be proclaimed, so nothing is

going to change until all of this comes into place with regulations and

(inaudible).

principle, public procurement reform is something we all want to support. It was

the PC government that brought this forward in the first public procurement

reform in the Public Tender Act in

1984 and it has been updated from time to time, including in 2009. The

legislation brought integrity, fairness, good value, transparency and

accountability to public procurement. The legislation is surely needed and it

was the PC Party that took the lead after more than three decades of people

ignoring it.

But, as

in any legislation, it needs improvement. The trade, business, and procurement

environment has changed significantly since then, and it's continuing to change,

particularly when it comes to the trade environment. Procurement and trade are

issues that are always in flux.

CETA is

just happening; an agreement with intergovernmental trade is being negotiated

and includes procurement. Who can guess what will come with our new president of

the United States. What will happen with respect to NAFTA or trade agreements in

Asia and the Pacific? What will that lead to? Trade issues also end up before

tribunals in court. They, too, can change and the rules can change according to

the environment. In fact, part of this legislation anticipates challenges in

these areas.

The

constant flux is a reason why our administration did not get this legislation

done. Although the current government would claim they're acting where others

didn't, they have made some part of this bill so vague and open ended that

people can only guess where it will lead.

So in

the final words of procurement: Decisive legislation that the Liberals promised?

No, but it's a great framework. Some specifics to the legislation; in some

cases, it's just a change of new names to old names. Instead of the

Public Tender Act , the Government

Purchasing Agency and Intergovernmental

Joint Purchasing Act , it will now be called the

Public Procurement Act . Instead of the Government Purchasing Agency,

we will have the public procurement agency. Instead of the GPA chief operating

officer, we will have the chief procurement officer.

There

are many things that are new in this act also. That flows from the

recommendations from the Reid & Associates report that we commissioned in 2008

broadening the coverage of procurement legislation focusing on results and roles

and being accountable, adapting a new flexible policy, increasing

standardization, implementing a new accountability framework and mandating an

independent system for recourse.

The

purpose of the legislation; well, the principle or the purpose of the

legislation is outlined in

section 3. These are statements that we all can agree

on: The purpose of the Act is to establish a statutory framework which, through

its operation, enables public bodies to achieve best value, transparency and

accountability in procurement.

(2) For

the purpose of the efficient, effective and ethical procurement required by

public bodies to carry out their mandates, public bodies shall (

a) promote the

integrity and fairness of, and public confidence in, procurement; (

b) foster and

encourage participation in procurement by suppliers; (

c) promote competition

among suppliers in procurement; (

d) provide for the fair and equitable treatment

of all suppliers and contractors; (

e) promote making information on procurement

publicly available; and (

f) value diversity in procurement.

What

we're really trying to do here with this bill in particular, we want to get the

best value for the people's money and that's what this bill is all about. We

want to ensure that local business have a fair chance to compete for government

business. Under trade agreements, we also want to ensure that local companies

compete for business in other jurisdictions. Of course, that means we have to

open our doors wider to competition here. It means we also have to nurture an

environment in which local companies can be competitive.

One way

to make our local companies really competitive is our tax rates. When we have

companies in Newfoundland and Labrador competing all over Atlantic Canada and

all over Canada, we have to make sure that our tax rates are competitive so our

companies are competitive with these companies.

We have

to minimize red tape, and the minister mentioned that also. That, too, has a

cost of operating with government and doing business here. We have to ensure

that the process is transparent and accountability, with the checks and balance

to correct any flaws. We have to protect ourselves from challenges. Will the

legislation accomplish all these things and when? While it is well intended, a

lot of the whats are still in the details, still to be worked out. There is no

indication of when.

Some

things we should be aware of and there are some things that we really have to

be aware of when we deal especially with trade. The province has certain

obligations under various trade agreements, including the Atlantic Procurement

Agreement and the Agreement on Internal Trade. We have to take into account

those obligations. The Government Purchasing Agency is continued as a new public

procurement agency.

Now,

there are a couple of different changes. There will be a procurement advisory

council under

section 25. These are government employees who will have no

stipend. The benefit, it will bring together officials who will provide advice

and make recommendations to the minister exactly what will be defined in the

regulations.

The bill

introduced a concept of best value. Best value includes the best balance of

cost, quality, performance and support, as achieved through transparent,

effective and competitive procurement process using a clear and fair evaluation.

That's important too. A lot of times when you look at some bids that go out

there and sometimes it's the lowest bid that always gets it. But best value

sometimes doesn't necessarily mean that it's the lowest bid, so that is a good

part of the legislation.

The

chief procurement officer shall develop general policies respecting procurement

of commodities applied to those that are social, economic, environmental

priorities. That, the Lieutenant Governor in Council may direct.

The

scope has expanded to include lease space. The scope also includes more

services. Under it, it includes engineering, architectural, accounting, land

surveying, banking or insurance services, voice telephone services or other

services that require the giving of an opinion, creativity, the preparation of

design and technical expertise.

Professional services are defined in

section 2, which includes: legal services

and financial services relating to the provision of credit and instruments of

monetary policy.

Although

Nalcor and RDC are included in the act, they have certain exemptions. Under

section 30

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Oh, oh!

MADAM SPEAKER:

Order, please!

I remind

Members to keep their conversations down or take them outside the Chamber.

Thank

you.

The hon.

Member for Cape St. Francis.

MR. K. PARSONS:

Thank you very much, Madam

Speaker.

Although

Nalcor and RDC are included in the act, they have certain exemptions. Under

section 30, Nalcor will be exempted for procurement in (

a) energy and energy

products; (

b) where the corporation or a subsidiary is acting in a strategic

partnership, joint venture, or equity investment with other public bodies or

private sector entities ..

Under

section 33, RDC have exemptions that are related to the daily operation of RDC

or subsidiaries. Thresholds, this is important; the minister spoke about that a

few minutes ago. Monetary thresholds will likely increase but these will be

defined under regulation 28, so it will be up to Cabinet to decide whether, when

and how much they increase.

Those

who gave us the briefing suggested that the thresholds may be raised by Cabinet

under regulations and bring them in line with the Atlantic Procurement Agreement

levels. That would mean that for services it will move from $10,000, it could

move to $50,000; the public works could go from $20,000 to $100,000; and for

lease space, from $10,000 on an annual rental value to $100,000 on a contract

value. Goods and service more than likely will remain the same.

There

are several measures for transparency in this bill. Under paragraph 3, many of

the information will be available to the public.

Section 12 provides

unsuccessful bidders to be debriefed; suppliers can also file a complaint under

section 12. Suppliers' performance governance is under

section 13.

Electronic notification system is defined by paragraph 2, under

section 16 and

22. Also, there's a clause in

section 26 that protects officials from being sued

when they act in good faith. There is also a reporting mechanism for exemptions

for Nalcor and RDC under sections 30 and 33.

Mr.

Speaker, regulations defined in the bill are significant. There are 17

paragraphs defining where Cabinet can regulate and three defining where the

minister can regulate. They include: defining procurement thresholds, defining

exemptions where open calls for bids is not required, defining change orders or

extensions, defining groups of purchasing, defining the delegation of authority,

defining what happens in the absence of bids, defining the requirements for

tabling and reporting, defining procedures for a limited time for a call of

bids. This is just a short list and goes on.

Mr.

Speaker, it's not that I'm against the bill or anything at all. I think it's a

great piece of legislation that we need to do here in the House of Assembly, but

there are a lot of questions to be asked. In Commencement, defined in

section

36, the act has to be proclaimed or part of the act has to be proclaimed on a

day or days that the Cabinet determines. So there's no way of knowing when this

bill will be determined or will come forward.

It's a

very important bill. I apologize; I said it was Municipal Affairs but, in actual

fact, it's Service NL. The minister mentioned about $4 billion. That's a lot of

money. There are a lot of businesses in Newfoundland and Labrador, a lot of

municipalities, a lot of health care, people who deal with our health care and

people who deal with municipalities that this can affect. So it's important that

we get it right.

There

are a lot of details that we need to work out in this bill. I'm hoping to hear

more answers from the minister when he gets up to speak.

Thank

you very much.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. SPEAKER (Warr):

The Speaker recognizes

the hon. the Member for Labrador West.

SOME HON. MEMBERS:

Hear, hear!

MR. LETTO:

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

It's a

pleasure for me today to rise in this hon. House to speak on Bill 46. I've just

listened to the Member opposite talking about why they couldn't bring it in and

all this good stuff. Well, I remind the Member opposite that it was that

administration that brought in Bill 1, which was supposed to be their signature

bill at the time, which was to bring in a new procurement act. That was in 2012.

Here we are today in 2016 bringing in this bill so we can have a better

procurement system in this province.

It died

on their Order Paper. That's why it didn't get brought in. They can make up all

the excuses they want for not bringing it in. The fact of the matter is when

this government came into power and this minister came in, it was in his mandate

letter to get this done. We saw the need and this minister took it upon himself

with his department officials, we had many officials in the department to work

on this, we're bringing it to the House today as a new procurement act that will

work better for the people of this province and the municipalities, the

government and all agencies that are involved in this procurement act. So, no,

excuses don't count. We're here today to do what's right, and do what's been

asked by the people of this province to be done for many years.

Now, Mr.

Speaker, this act influences a lot of economic development in the province. As

the minister alluded to, a recent Atlantic Provinces Economic Council study

cited 2014 data to show that this provincial government engages in approximately

$3.19 billion in procurement activity and approximately $963 million in capital

spending. That's over $4 billion annually.

So it's

no wonder we saw the need to improve what was happening within the province.

Because the act that's there is decades old and has not been substantially

amended since enacted. Changes have been needed for some time, as outlined in a

2008 report by Reid and Associates and we know who was in power in that

particular year.

AN HON. MEMBER:

Who's the minister?

MR. LETTO:

Well, I can tell you who the

minister was when Bill 1 was introduced in 2012. He's now sitting as the Leader

of the Opposition. So they can talk about all they want, but we're doing what's

right here today.

Some of

the benefits of this act, it moves the focus, Mr. Speaker, from getting the best

price to getting the best value.

AN HON. MEMBER:

(Inaudible) and he ran for

five years?

MR. LETTO:

Five years.

MR. SPEAKER:

Order, please!

MR. LETTO:

The focus of this legislation

and our overall approach is to ensure public bodies achieve best value,

transparency and accountability from procurement, not just the best price with

little regard for the other factors. And more services are included in this act

than ever before. Engineering services, architectural services, accounting, land

surveying, voice telephone services, banking services, insurance services and

other services that were previously not included. This enhanced oversight will

help ensure best value from money spent on these services in the future.

There

will be an opportunity to update the thresholds governing buying activity. Many

public bodies, including municipalities, have said that current thresholds are

very low and force public bodies to engage in open calls for bids when the

services they needed had a small monetary value. That's been addressed in the

new act.

The new

act provides an opportunity to increase these thresholds, which in turn reduces

red tape and supports buying activity. This also provides public bodies the

ability to locally source for acquisitions below the thresholds, and the

minister alluded to that. If you have a municipality who want to buy locally to

support the people that are supporting them, this act gives them the opportunity

with oversight, I might add.

Speaking

of oversight, there will be enhanced oversight. The new act includes changing

the Government Purchasing Agency to the public procurement agency I guess that

was a little dig as well it's monitoring and compliance role regarding public

procurement, establishing a chief procurement officer and a procurement advisory

council to oversee all public procurement activities across the province.

As the

minister also alluded to, the chief procurement officer will be selected through

the Independent Appointments Commission. The advisory council will be comprised

of officials from provincial public bodies. The minister already said that.

One of

the things I think this act addresses which we're very excited about, and we

keep hearing from the Opposition parties about, more oversight is needed at

Nalcor. This act does that because the province's energy corporation, which is

Nalcor, has been exempt from the Public

Tender Act since an amendment in June 2008. Just remember that date, June

2008. Who was in power?

While

Newfoundland and Labrador Hydro has always been included, Nalcor and its

remaining subsidiaries have not been subject to government's procurement

legislation since June 2008. The Public

Tender Act had been recognized as a dated piece of legislation that required

updating. The former government had promised to bring forward a new procurement

framework, which they did, but this had never materialized.

Since

coming into office, our government has had the opportunity to provide input into

new procurement legislation and to ensure that the new legislation aligns with

our commitments to transparency and accountability. This legislation is a direct

example of our commitment to the transparency and accountability of Nalcor.

Nalcor

now will be subjected to the public tendering process, the same as any other

organization or Crown corporation in the province, but we recognize that Nalcor

is a little different than most other corporations. For that reason, we have

identified some exemptions that make sense. They include energy and energy

products.

We know

buying and selling of electricity and other energy products, like oil, is an

area that does not fit well within normal procurement procedures. Lots of times

that purchase, procurement or sale is done on a daily basis and it happens to

trading, for instance, for oil and electricity. We're now in an open market

process and it happens in real time and across open markets. So it's not

practical to be able to subject that type of procurement to the public

procurement act.

Also,

Nalcor buys