J!l Volume XLI Friday P.ROf'ERTY 01-' NP.\Vi!'Qt,~~D!..i'\ i':, LEGISLATl\-'E LIBRARY PLEASE RETURN Province of Newfoundland FORTY -FIRST GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF NEWFOUNDLAND First Session VERBATIM REPORT {Hansard) Speaker: Honourable Thomas Lush Number 14 16 June 1989

The House met at 9:00a.m. MR. SPEAKER (Lush): Order, plE!ase! Statements by Ministers PREMIER WELLS: Mr. Speaker. MR . SPEAKER: ThE! han . the Pr(o~mier. PREMIER WELLS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . About t:E!n days or so ago, I announu!d l:hE! membE!r'ship of the Economic RE!covery Corrunisssion and thE! Econo1n-ic RecoVE!ry Advisory Board, and I indicatE!d to the House at the ti.rne thE!Y WE!re still not complete. I am pleased to inform thf~ hon. House today that lAJe are now j_n a pos:it:ion to announce the appointment of the fifth membE!r of thE!

Economic Rt~cOVE!ry Commission, and the names of thE! rE!Jnaining huo rnE!I'IIbE:~rs of the Economic Recovery Advisory Board. ALL these individuals had been approached before the initial announcement on the establishment of the Commission was made on June 5, but: because of cer·ta:i .n personal. i n v o 1 v e 1n E! n t s a n d c o mrn i t me n t s , i t was not possible to announce their appointments tAl'ith l:he othE.>r'S on that dat:E!.

The Fift:h member of t.he Economic l~c:!covc;ry Commission tAJilJ. be Ms. ~iusan ~1her·k, tJJho j~~ lJJE!ll--knotAJI1 throughout Newfoundland and Labrador for her IAJOJ"k j n c:ommun:i l':.y development, pub1ic afFairs and industry. Ms. Sherk worked with Uw ExtE'!ns:i.on SE!rv·.icE! of Memor·:i.al Unjversity For several years. L.694- June 1.6, 1989 Vol XL .. I planning and co-ordina±ing community development conferences and working wit.h many co1nrnunit:.i.es t:hroughout thE! Pr·ovince.

In 1980 she joinE!d Mob:Ll Oi1 Canada Ltd. as their PubJ.ic Affairs Co-ordinator in Newfoundland and Nov~ Scotia, and was well-known throughout the environmental impact hearings that took place. In 1987 she moved l':.o Mobil Corporation's head office in New York. whr::1re shE! bE! Came Cormnuni ty Relations Advisor to Mobil's U.S.-based companies and divisions . In April of this year, she jo:Lned Michel:i .n ·r:i.rE•s (Canada) Ltd. in Nova Scotia as Senior ManagE!r, but wil 1 be J ·~av-.:Ln~J I:. hat. position to ret.ur·n to NetJJfoundland and join the Economic Recovery Cotmnission.

The two members of l:.he Economic Recovery Advisory Boar·d t~Jhorn I ant p l c; a s e d t o a n n o u n c e 1:. o d <.l y a r· e 11'1 r . Ray ~imalltAJood. and Mr'. R:icl 'li.H'd Cashin. Mr. ~3ma1lu.JOod is lAJell-known in t.:he business comrnun:ity as the Vice-President and Branch Manager of Wood--Cundy in St. John's. He was recc:•ntly a mernbeJ" of l:he tdsk force of the Newfoundland Stock Savings Plan, and was a foundj_ng mE:'mber of the Board of Di rE•ct.or~; of the Public Legal Information Associat::ion of Newfoundland a11d Labrador.

HE! has been acti.tH~ in cornrnunit.y affairs, and is currE!ntly Chair·rnan of Lhe 13oaJ'·d of Directors of the Arthril':.is Society. He will bring to that Advisory Board a great deaJ of knotAJlc~dge and l'!Xper·.ic·nce and a d •J :i c P t n t. P r' rn s o F :J. n v E'! s t. rn E· n t. banking and the availab ility of funds t.hrough the noJ"ITJaJ. bu~:::inE!SS banking services. Mr . Cashin needs no introduction to anyone in Newfoundland and No. 14- FU:i 9 il-

Labrador. His tAJork in the Fishermen's union moVE!fnE!mnt has bE!en legendar'y, and hE! has indeed made a significant impact on the history of this Province. His association with labour has been of such proportions that it often overshadows t:he fact that he was also a successful lawyer and pol.il:ician, havtng representod the riding of St. John's West in thE! HouSE! of Commons during the E!arly 1960's. Mr'.

Cashin will bring a wealth of experience and counsel to the Advisory Board as he has in many other instances as Secretary-Treasurer of the Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of Labour; a commissioner of t:hE! Task Force on Canadian Unity; a member of the Board of Governors of the Atlantic Provinces Economic Council; member of l:he Board of Directors of the Export Trade Development Board; membc~r of th<.~ Institute for Research on Public Policy and a member of the Canadian Saltfish Corporation, just to name a few. I should also explain to the House that the delay 'in announcing the final members of t:hE!

Economic Recovery Advisory Board was because. of the Government's wish to enlist the support of yet anothE!r WE!J.]-knotAJn NE!tAJfoundlander, in t:hE! pE!Inson of Ms. Nancy l~iche, who has distinguished herself in the Canadian labour movement. AftE!r consi .dE!rab]E! djscussjon and as much as she welcomed the opportunity, because of her national col'nmitmE!nts just yesterday Ms. Riche advised me that she tAJa s unable \~ o a c c E! p t thE! appoi nt.ment.

But she has discussed the matter extensively with other people in the J.abour movement in Newfoundland and hE!ar ·U J.y E•ndorses the act:.ions government is taking in this rE!gard. 1_6')1) June 16, 1089 Vol XI..[ Thank you, Mr. Speaker. MR. RIDEOUT: Mr. Speakc~r . MR. SPEAKER : -· ·-- ThE! hon. thE! LeadE!In of th(! Opposition. MR. RIDEOUT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . First of a11, 1et me say that we want to wish those new additions to the Commission itself and to i:he Advisory Board, WE!ll .

They are obvjousJy weJJ-known peop]e who have served the public oF Newfoundland and Labrador in one f o r rn o In a n o l~ h e r , e ~U: h e 1~ i n l.: h e private sector or the pubJic sector, VE!r'y, very wol1, and tAJe have no diff:i.cuJ.ty tAdt:h any oF thc~rn in their appoin tmenl :.~. to l.:he Commission itself or t:o the Advisory Board.

I st.oi.ll have to say, Mr. ~3peaker, that I think it is passing strange and, in my op"inion, a graiJE! erro1n, that even though recognizjng the fact that the~ Commission its,=.d.F is not necessarily, nor, perhaps, should it bt> departmentaLized in the sense that there would be various regions and groups recognized or appointed to the Cornrnission because of l:.hal~ fc:a :t, [ do think it is a serious and glaring omission that there is not anybody on the Commission itself directly associated with labour.

I think that is something, in terrns of the overall success of 'lhts Commission, that is CE!r"i:ainJy a glaring fa"ilure. I believe equally fact "i:ha-1: there specifically on from Labrador. glaring failure, shouJ.d be No . 14 i.1nportant is t.hl:! :i. s n o l a n y b o cl y l::ht:• C0111111:is soion That is also a not that thotne I"E!~J:i ona1:.i ZE!d 1\6 9 ~)

representation on the Commission. I understand l:.he PrerniE!r' s comments on that vi .ew, but to haVE! a large underdE!VE!loped potentially economic region of the Province with no direct representation on the Commission, I believe is unacceptable. Mr. Speaker, we will just have to wait and see what this Comm~ission brings to the people of Newfoundland and Labrador. There was a kind of economic commission which was set up and worked during the 1960's. There was an action group that set up sirn:i.larly, and uJOrked during t:.hE! 1970's.

WhE!l:.hE!r this Commission of the late 1980's and ear·ly 1990's, a corrunission that will expend over tha next six or seven years in administration and those kinds of costs alone anywhE!re fr·om $25 m:i.llion to $30 miJ.J.ion, wi11 be a wortht,o.JhilE! :investmE!nt, and t.uhethE!r ther·e t.ui .ll be worthwhiJ.e opportunities rE!sult:Lng from that, is something we will just have to wait and see. But in terms of the individuals, Mr.

Speaker, the Premier has announced to the Commission and to the Advisory Board hE!rE! today, t.ue have no difficulty with them and wish them well in the performancE! of the .ir duU .es . Oral Questions MR. SPEAKER : ThE! han . the Oppos i U on HOUSE! Leader. MR. SIMMS : Mr. Speaker. I want question l:.oday on a ex tTE!ITJe impot"tanCE! and ask my question of the Education (Dr. WarrE!n).

L696 June 16, 1.989 ·Lo raisE! a rna t bH' of I wan L to M·i ni s tE!r of Vo] XLI The Minister of Education would be au.Jare, because~ I wrote him on th(:­ rnatter soiTlE! s:i.x·teE•n days ago notAl, on May 30, and I have not yel: received a reply to my letLer, that there have be(:>n nurnrc~rous advances in posL-secondary education in the Central Newfoundland area over the past few year·s. thE! past two y~':'<.H's in particular, and specifica11y I am referring to the first year uniVE!rsi.ty program offerE!CI by t.hE• Central Newfoundland Community College to the Grand Falls and Lewisporte campuses. There have bE!

E! n many , many ben E• f :Lt. s , not t 1-, E:! least of which is Lhe benefit derived by the 150 students and parE!Ill:s t.uho attf::•nd that campus frorn s~i.x e1E!ctoral d:.i strict~;. So this .is not a politically pal~t.:isdn issue, it :Ls a reg:lona] :Lssue that : accotnrnodal:es and effecl:.s a lol: of people. I want. to si.mpJy ask t h E• Ill :i n :i ~~ L E! r· at the outset, is l:he 1ninis l:.oJ~ fuLly committed continuation of l:h.is l:.o thE· part:icular· pr·og ram? MR. SPE'AI<ER : The Minister of Education . DR. WARREN : Mr.

Speaker, most certainJy the governl'nE!nt :i.s cotrnn:itte•d l:o E!V: ':!n extc,~ndi .ng opportunj.ti.E!S throughout t h :is Pro u inc E! For p E! o p 1 E! lAJ h o t.ua n l: to take fi.rst YE!ar univers:i ty courses outside St. John's. I havE• not had an opportunity to reuiet.u as yet, Mr. Speaker, Uw totaJ. offE!rings throughout t.he Prov'ince.

I do, shortly aFLt:!r' l:he House js c]osed and I havE• sorne t i 1n e • tAl a n l:: l: o v :i s i t a n d c o r1 s 'i. d f'! r w:.i.t:h aJ.l authoritj _ps JAJhat ::i.s llOG\J happen :in g , and t: hen L o p 11 l: b of o I" C! thE! goVE!rnrnE!nt. and beforE! th:.i s House a plan for Lhe 19')0s so that. No. 14- f\696

we can systematically extend educational opportunities SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! DR. WARREN: to more and more people throughout this Province. The participation rate at the post-secondary level is disturbingly low. It is appalling that so few of our people are continuing on to post-secondary education. If you took any age group, Mr. SpE!akE:~r. for exampJe, the EdghtE:~E!n to t.WE!nty---four age group, I would suggE!St t.hat our pE!rcenl:age is the lowest in Canada. . I would argue that in Ontario perhaps 25 percent of thai: age group is .in post-secondary programs.

We intend over the next decade to moue Newfoundland's percentage to I: he Canadian averagE!, and we will do everything possible to do that. MR. RIDEOUT: Increasing tuition fees by cent is really helping program. MR. SIMMS: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : 10 per such a ThE! hon. the Leader. Opposition House MR. SIMMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I was going to make the comment that increasing tuition fE!E!S by 10 percent is not going to help an awf u J J. o t, I not think , t. o s E! E' the government reach that objective. Now, Mr.

SpE!akE!r, would aJ so bE! aware progr·am that I dm L.697 June 16, 1989 t:hE• IILin:is I:E!r that on this I~E!fE!rTing to Vo] XLI there have been already $2 million spent to improve the facilities out there, new labs and other i terns of that. nature. He IJJOtJld also b1:l aware, and I suppose every member of the House would be aware that the program is working extremely IAJelJ. . The pass· ratE:! on those campuses for first y(!ar· university, is greater than the pass rate at: thE! main campus 'in St. John 1 s, and grE!ater than the campus in Cornc"r Br·ook.

Therefore, it is pretty clear that the program .is tJJorking uc~ry, very IAJ(! l] ' I want the minister l:o te]J me what are the improvements he is cornmi.tt.ed to that he• rE!F'err'E!d l::o in his first answer? What improvements is he commitl:ed to. What ,~E!COJnJnendations hi:{UE! bcE!n made by his officials with re spect to improving th1':! first year university program and facilities? MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the Minister of Education. DR. WARREN: Mr. Warrc~n, I IAJant to pay t1n.i.bub:! to the people who are in that program in the Central Newfoundland.

They have done outstanding work and we will do everything possi .bJ.e• to incr·easE• the opportunities for them, to improve the FadJit.: :ie~~. Unfortunai:E!ly, I have ned: had 1: ilfiE! to assess all of the details of th~:! progr·arn but I assure. t.he hon. member that as soon as I do I wiJJ rE!por·t to him and the House about our plans for Future . SOME HON. MEMBERS : I-IE!ar, hE•ar! Mr~. SPEAKER : The Opposit.ion HouSE! l_eader . MR. ~3IMMS: No. 14 R69?

I would like to ask · a supplementary, Mr. Speaker.

Since there is a board meeting corning up in Grand Falls, I think on Monday, to look at outstanding issues, and since the minister's own officials have recommended. by the way, an expansion to those facilities out there, to accommodate the students who presently are being accommodated :i.n rentE~d facilities about a mile and a half away from the school itself in an old elementary schooJ., and since they recommended expansion to the facilities, can the minister put to rest rumors that are presently circulat:ing out in the Centra} Newfoundland area and tell us if he intends to fulfiJ.l a commitment for a $3 million expansion to provide classroom space for those additional 150 sl:udent:s, which was rE~co1nrnendE~d and wh:i ch was in ·thP sysl:em For several, several months, from this year's budget?

Can the minister tell me that? MR. SPEAKER: ThE~ hon. UlE! Minister of Education. DR. WARREN: Mr. SpeakE:~r, I want to r'E:'PE~at sornE:~thing I said E~arlier. WE~ clre anxious to look at the whole system of the ProvincE~. There are trE~mendous neods in Labrador WE~st, for E!Xample. needs that we not met over the last five years. There ar'E~. nE~eds on the Burin Peninsula, and I am deLi.ghted l':hat thE! goVE!rnment could moue to impJ.eiTIE!nt a program to extend first year opportunities on the Burin Peninsula. We are going to use technoJ.ogy to do that - SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, ~war! Dl~.

WAI~I~FN: L698 June 16, 1989 Vol XLI and I am proud, I am really delighted and I am looking forward to this pilot :in distance E~ducation as a l:.rE'~HIE!ndous opportunit:y for us. SomE.~ planning had beE!n done in this rE•gard. I must say that my departmental officials had done some planning on the Burin Peninsula. but to my knowJedge no specific planning has been done in Central and I want to look at the whoJ.P Proujnce. I want to look a1: the t:ol:a1 sysi:E!J'TI before we make major cornmitmPnts to any one part of thi.s Province, Mr. SpeakE~r. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE~ar, hnal~! MR.

SPEAKER: The hon . the Opposit:.i .on House Leader. Ml~. SIMMS: I have just one f:Lna1 qLJE!SLion Lo t. he rn :i n :i. s t: c~ r a n d I IAJ i 11 1 n a k "~ .i.t fa~ir·Jy s=i.1npJE~. Can the ITJ]n:.ist~'!r' te11 thE! House :LF the ~~3 ln.i.1l-i.on expansion that was reco1nrnended and LA.Jas worked on for SC:!VE' r'al 1nonths bE!tWeE•n the adrnin:i stration at LhE! college out ther ·e , !:he Depari:rnr,!nl: of Public Works and thE:~ Former· DE!part:mE!nt of Carec~r Development, the $3 mi lJ ion E~xpans:ion that 1.1Jas thE!n committed by the previews administration, has that been canCE!llE!d? MR.

SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Education . DR. WARREN: Mr. Speakc~r. I am nol: sure tuho cormn~L t. t.:E!d IJJhat. I he~ar' about aLl kinds of co1n1rr.i.trnent.s day aFl: c:!r day . I have bePn Lo1d abou l: cornrnitmr:~nts. Lot. 1ne assurE! t.he hon. rn~:!JTJber· that LA.JE~ lAJ:.i.] l co n~;:.i.dE!I~ that, but no COillm~l'l:rn(;·nt has b et~n m a d e t o E~ x t E! n d t: h a t p r· o g r· a rn b y l:. h e govE~rnmE!nt ai: t:his po j_nt in l:. i.mE.~. No. 14 R698

Bui: we will consider ·that in considering the total package. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER : ·The hon. the member for Harbour Main. MR. DOYLE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker . I have a question for the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations. As the Minjster of Ernploymr::~nt and Labour Relations is aware, improving employment opportunities for women WclS a very important priority of the former PC governmE!nt, and bE!CaUSE! of that approximately $500,000 was delegatE!d in the budg,:-t last yE!i.'.lr to start the Occupational Integration Program for Women.

In the rrdnistE!r 1 s new dE!partrnE!ntaJ. estimates. not a dollar, not a single penny, has been budgeted for the women of the Province, insofar as any nE!W initiative j s concerned, for that program. I want to ask the minister why that particular program, a VE!ry. VE:~ry good onl':1, a very progressiVE! one, has been killed, or put on hold? Is it another program that fa] ls into the category of re-evaluation? Why this program, a new one just getting off the ground?

Women were given an indication that the government was concentrating on getting women into more nontradt t.ional jobs, so dOE!S it fall under the heading of re --evaluation? Why cancel this program? MR. SPEAKE I~ : The hon. the Minister of Employment and Labour Relations. MS COWAN: Thank you, Mr·. Spl':1akt:'r . L699 June 16, 1989 Vol XLI Let me assure the hon. ITlE!IlibE!r for Harbour Main, before I bE!gin to answer his question, that our commitment to women and their participation in t:hc~ labour for 'CE! is no less than that of Uw previous gover·nment.

In Fact, IAJE! wi11 do everything l..I.JE' can to moVE! women forward in this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. TOBIN: We shall see. We sha~ll see. MS COWAN: I hopE• that you ar·e tAJcd:ch:.i.nq c a J" E' f u 11 y b E! c a u s E! , i n d e u d , t·. h a ~ L s onE! of your· rolE:•s as the 0 p p o s 'it ion . I wo u 1 d be on 1 y 1: o o happy to entertain questions on wornE!n's participat~Lon in Lrlt:! labour force as would the han . Minister responsible for the St.atus of ~'llomen. To your question member, Mr. Speaker, is not killed, the simply being evaluated. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh!

MS COWAN : then, hon. i':.hro! pinor~r'dln program ·.:i.~~ One of the i:hing s I would 1 j_ ke l:o say, Mr. ~)pE!akE!r, is I. hat l IAJou] cl like to learn from Question PE!riod. I found I J E•al"llE!d a J cd:. the other night when we had our interactjon during the Estimates Committee sess :i.on. It :is vor'y difficu]t when pE!Op]E! keep yelJ.ing things out. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MS COWAN : I would like to be able to respond and thEH'I haVE! thE! hon. l'nE!InbE•r ', IAJhO is my critic, respond as weLL and No . lfl. R699

have some dialogUE! that might be of some value to both of us. The program :is not killE!d, it :is being evaluated. The evaluation of programs is an extremely important step. So oft.E!n that is not done and before long people realize they are into a program which they are not particularly happy with, but they have all kinds of employE!eS, all k·inds of commitments, that kind of thing, and they arE! locked :into it. And it is VE!ry, very difficult to get out of it. We want to have an extremely good look at this progr·am. It may be thai: WE! find that it is the answer. WE! rnay find that it is not.

And I think one of the things that I can offer, as a person who has been very interested in the advancement of women, is that I personally hc3.d not hE!ard of thE! program bE!fOrE! I became m:inistE!r, so I wondE!r if the promotion of it t.~Jas adE!quate, perhaps or was not. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MS COWAN: And that may be the only flaw we find , and p E! r haps it. was j us t because I did not hear the news some morning, I do not know. But I think it is VE!ry, vcH'Y important that t.~Je do l:WaluatE! th:i.s progralfl and thc~n rnove ahc~ad with it.

So once mor(:'), if I may, I assure thE! han. mernbE!r' that our comrni trnE!nt. to t.uomen is therE!. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! MR . RIDEOUT : There j_s no money there. you say thai: lAJi th a face? Not a dollar there. Ml~. DOYLF.: : L700 JunE:' 16, 1989 HotJ.J can si:raight Vol XU Mr. SpE!akE!r'. MR. SPEAKER: The han . the member for Harbour Main . MR. SPEAKER : Thank you, Sir. I can appr·eciate that thE:~ rninistc~l" wants to re---evaJ.uat.E! the progr·alfl, but I would submit to her that .i.l: is not good E!nough to r'E!- -t:waJuatE! a progr·arn unless you haVE! another program to put in place.

And I say to the minister it is not good enough to kiJ.l the PrivatE! Sector· Program unless she has another pr·ogram :in place to LHke thE• plac .;:! of that one, because jobs are very, VE!ry impot"tant: :in l:.he Pr·ovince. LEd: me as k is the rn:i n :is i:. E! r· atAJd r· e that :>8.3 per· CE!nt oF aJ.] tJ.JOirtPn employed :in Newfoundland are in the c l E! r :i. cal , sa 1 e s and set' v :L c E! fields? And is she at.uarc' that fur· every doJ.lar· earnE!d jn LhE'' ProvincE! by men, WOIIICHl oar·n fifty-seven point five cents?

This is one of l:he rnain rc::!asons, as a matter of fact, that the former government brought in the Occupat.ionaJ. In'l:.E!grati.on PrograiTI for WoiTIE!n, so that they could gel:. into the more non-traditjonal, higher paid jobs i.n l:hE! Prov:inco. In view of that, why wouJ.d this particular minister, of all ministers, who happens to be the only woman in thE! Cabino l: of Ll'lE' Province, why would she drop a program beforE! she had another program :i.n plaCE! to take the plaCE! of that one? Ii: is IJC!ry,. vor·y i 1r1 p o r· t a n L t hat t.\.1 P 1·1 a v E! a not hE!

I" pr·ogram :in place before 'l:his vc•I"Y important program, whjch was brought in by LhC! former government, was acLually dropped. MR. ~3PEAKER: No. 14 · R'/00

The han. the Minister of status quo - Employment and Labour Relations. MR. RIDEOUT: MS COWAN: While the evaluation was ongoing. Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Again. to the han. mernbc::~1n, through you, our commitment is ~here to women. I certainly am aware. as are aJ.l my coJ.leagues. and we aJ.l share the responsibility -it is not just on my shoulders or th~~ St.atus of WomE!n Person (Mr. BakE!

r) for us -and the concern that women do still makE! less than rrwn on the average, and we are committed to doing something about it. I have already had mE!et.i n~Js tAr.ith l:he ~3tc"ltus of Wol'nE!n person, thE! hon. minist.E•r, and J can assure you that he, too, is conCE!rned. I am not gcd,ng to and I do not wanl: to spoak for him, but I am sure t.hat hE! too is not prepared to bring in a program after sjx weeks in office that, again, 1rri.ght not address problems.

We have very good people working in the Department of ErnpJ.oyment who ar'E! already considering and looking at programs so that tiJhE!n WE! do out' evaluation we will indeed know what to look for. And if I mean replacements modifications. that program made. are necessary to they wiJ.l indc:•ed bE! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear. hE!ar! Ml~. DOYI_E: Mr. SpeakE!r. Ml~. SPEAKE!~: ThE! hon. t:he mernbE!r for Harbour Ma.in. Ml~. DOYLE: The minister was cancE•l UlE! program. co u 1 d have done L\Jd s L70l Junu Hi. 1~)89 prepared rhe least maintain to she the Uo1 XLI MR. DOYLE: -while the evaluation was ongoing.

Will t:he minister c:•xp1ain t.hE! reason for the continuation of the Employment Services Division within her department? The Occupational Integration Plnogr'ilm for· Worne:~n j s gone. thE! Pr:i vat.P Secl:or Program :is gone, shE! has laid off staff and reduced salaJniE!S by OVE!r $300,000, so this :.i.s llOlAJ the Department or Layoffs and Labour Relations. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear. hr:~ar'! MR. DOYLE: In view of this. Mr. SpeakE!r. u,ri.l.l thE! rn:J n iS t. E! In t: E! J. J US h OIAI S h E:• :intE!nds to help the une::•tnployt,•d pE!Opl(,' of the Pr·ovincu find tAJOt"k :in thE!

Pr·ov:ince tAtil~h hur· department's ernployrnent pt"O~JI"dlrt"; g o n e • b E! :i n g s 1 a s h E! d t o l: h E! b o n e ? How is she go:ing to help the Prern:ier now to br·:ing hotne those 35,000 people he was talking about? I am talking to peop1e form the Mainland every day and they are interested in get.t.ing home in t:h€'' f:i.rst draft. I tAtouJcl l:iko to knotAJ hot.u she int.ends l:.o hE!lp crE!atE! E!rnployrnPnt :i.n the P r o v :i n c E! • g i v e n t: h e fa c t. t. h a t 1·1 E:! r programs ar'E! be:i.ng cut hand OVE!r fist:? MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Minister of F.mploymE•nt and Lai:JOUI" Re1at:i.ons.

M~) COWAN: I rn:igh·t say, Mr. ~3puakE'I", l:l'l(.tl~ thE! status quo Luas set :i.n place by a government that had sevunteen YE:~ars to e1ct and d:i.d not do No. 14 1\'7 0 l

anythtng. SOME HON. MFMBERS: Hear, hE~ar! MS COWAN: In reference to the Women's Program, $500,000 was allocated and $150,000 was USE!d last year. I ask you about cornmi tment therE~. We, in this government, are committed to improving employment opportunities for individuals to devE~lop t.he social fabd.c of this Province and the economic fabr ·.i.c, not to balance books by getting people off the Social Services roster and onto federal unemployment schemes. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear', hE~ar!

MS COWAN: There are many initiatives that have aln~ady beE~n taken, and if anyone was astute enough to observe that, increas:ing the education budget by the amount of money that went into it is a first step. Education and a well -educated work force is necessar'y to this ProvinCE!, and tAJE~ began this y(~ar by putt'.ing an extra $10 million into education. The Economic Recovery Team is a part of the process and my department is a part of the process as weJl. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MS VERGE: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : The hon . thE! tnE~rnber for Humber East.

MS VERGE: I have a question for the Min iste r of Munic:ipal and Provincial L702 JunE~ 16, 1989 Vo1 XLI Affa:Lrs. A couple of weeks ago I asked some questions about his knowJedge of the state of the streets ·in thE! City of Corner Brook. I tAJas very pleased to hear him acknowledge that he has some familtartty with the problems th(~re. In Corner Brook there are fifteen kiJometers of unpaved gravel road and thirty-two kilometers of open ditches. The rninisb::'r acknowledged that he knows about the city's plan to upgr'adE~ CorrHH' Brook East.

The city no!AJ has a CorrH:!r' 13r'ook Edsl: Devr:dopment ~..lchE~me st.ar'ted jn the JaL( :! 1970s, and sincQ then about: $S tn:il1 .Lon has beE~n spent.. MR. CULLAG E: A point of order, Mr . Speaker. MR. SPEAKER : OrdQr, pl01asE~! A point of order. MR. GULLAGE: I cannot hear thE' hon. rnetni:HH ' Speak . I IAJO u l d a p prE! cia t E! it iF some of the members opposite IAJOu]d simply stop t:alkinr:J for a L11hiJ.e. MR. SIMMS: That is not a point of order, boy. Sit down! MR.

SPEAKER: It :is not a point of ordE•r, but I I was I was hear the remind han. members that about: to riSE! myself. finding it difficuJ.t to question being raised . ThE! hon. the melflber Fot~ l·lulllber' East. MS VERGE: Thank you, Mr . Speaker . I arn asking thE! ITI·in:is t:er about l:.he No. 1.4· R'/02

Corner Brook East Development Scheme. I mentioned a couple of weeks ago being pleased when he acknowledged some familiarity with the deficiencies in that neighborhood. However, when the minister announced the list of municipal capital funding the government has approved, he did not make any mention of the Corner Brook East Development Scheme. Now, Mr . Speaker, the people who live in that neighborhood of Corner Brook had the same reaction to the min:ister 1 s c:-:lnnouncement as the Mayor of St. Anthony.

They thought to themsE!lves, 1 TherE! has to bE! a mistake. 1 Now, I Luas really gla.d to hear on the news this morning that the minister and the government have corrected thejr mistake for St. Anthony. Is the minister going to correct the mistake for the Co~ner Brook East project? MR. SPEAKER : The hon. the Minister of Municipal and Provincial Affairs. MR. GULLAGE: Mr. Speaker, I am not auJarE' of any mistake. Corner Brook, as with St. John 1 s and other major urban areas with large populations·, are, as the min:ist.er knows, given bJ.ock funding. It is not identified, per s e , s treE! t by st. r E:~ e t .,

section by section, subdivision by subdivisjon. That is normally left to a c.i t:y the size of Corner Brook to decide. Now, I could very well decide if you want me to as a ministt::'r, but I do not feel that the Mayor of Corner Brook would want it that way. SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar, hE!ar! MS VEI~GE: L703 June 16, 1989 Vol XLI Mr·. Speaker·, Uw ministE·r· told lllE! before he met wjt.h the Mayor of Corner Brook -- MR. SPEAKER : Order, please! The han. East. the mernbE!r for' HurnbE:!r MS VERGE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Mayor of Corner Brook will correct the ministE!r 1 s tAJrong impression th~'!re.

I.n fac-L .t.he former govel~nrrwnt specifica lly funded the Corner Rrook East D e v E! l o p rn E! n t: :3 c h u 1 n E! o n a n i n c• t y I 1·: o n or seVE!I1t.Y- ···fiVE!/t.L\Je nt .y -.. f:i ve bas:.i ~':, distinguished from the regular sixty/forty ratio. The Corner Brook East: DoveloprnE!ni: Schu11w I.:,JdS always earmarked j.n t.he p:novind aJ. Municipal Cap·ital Wo1 nks Pr·ogr ·am OVE!r the pt.'l.St . SE!VPrraJ YE!C.H'S. T h i s .i s t h o f i t· s t y c• a r' ti"J E! r e h a s been a d:.i.ffer ·e nce.

ThE'' L.otd1 amount of funding announced For the city of Cor·ner Br·ook is lE!SS than what has been announct:!d thE! last couple of years. Mr. Speaker, I Lvould like t.o a~;k the Premier how he squares the goUE!rnment 1 s failure to n1ake any provision for the Corner Brook East D~'!Ve]oprnent SchE•IfiE' jn t:h:i.s B u d g Ed: w :i t h t: he s t: a l:. E• me n i: s h e mad e to the Corner Brook Eas t Development Scheme Citizens' Cotnmit:.-tE•E! and the publ:i.c of HumbE!r East thr·ough CFCI3 and The Western Star when ho lAias campaigning last.

Nouember and this Wj nt.E·r? flouJ does the Premier square that discrepancy? Mr~. ~)PEAKER : The han. i:he PtnE!m:ior. PREMIER WELLS: Thore is no difficulty squaring No. 14- R703

it, Mr. SpeakE!r. At no time when I was campaigning last November, whenever it was the member referred to, did I say that this Spring, in the first budget, thai: money would bE! there. Dur·ing the reCE!nt elect:lon campaign, HlE! member made a political promise, to g e t v o t e s , I s u p p o s e . S h c~ was largely successful. SOME HON . MEMBERS : Hear, hear! PREMIER WELLS: She made the promise that the goVE!rnmE!l1t would put this kind of money into Corner Brook East. The prE!S::!nt administration, ~~r.

Speaker, during the political campaign, stated its general poJ.:icy, its commitment to health, its commitment to education, its commitment to municipal services, :in the broad provincial area. We did not, at any time, commit to any particuldr district that 'You will have X nd.J.lion dollars here, X million for Grand Falls, X miJ lion dollars for Fogo, 1 and so on. We stai:ed our broad genf!ral policy and we intend to keep t hat .

Now , i n d u e c o u r s e , t he Corner Brook East Development Scheme will be dealt wii:h, when the government j s rE!ady to do it. lrJ e c o u l d n o t p o s s i b l y b E! r· e a d y i ri four weeks to deaJ. with it. We feel no obligation whatsoever to honour all of the promises made by the members opposite during the campaign. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! PREMIER WELLS : ·If we djd, WI::' wou]d takE:~ $~)00 1rr.i'.llion t:o rneE!t thoSE! spocific promises and the Province cannot afford it at this stage. L704 June 16, 1989 Vol XLI SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar, hE!ar! MS UERGE: Mr. Speaker. MR.

SPEAKER: ThE! hon. thE! nH~mber· for HumbE!r East. MS UERGE: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I arn asking the statements that was campaigning . Prernier hE! made about L\JhE! n l: h ~" he SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar, hE!ar! MS VERGE: I. wou1d Like to ask penalizing the people Brook Ea s l: because th E!Y instead of h:i .m? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE:!ar! MR. SPEAKER: Order, p1easE!! The hon. the Premier . PREMIER WELLS: hirn is he:! of Cor'nE!r' Ed (:! c-l: E! J In(! Mr. Speaker, I want thE! Fol"l'riE!r minister and thE :!

House and the pE!OplE! of Cor'ner· Brook Eas l:, ti·lt:! people of Corner Brook, in particular, to be - aLvarE! i:hai: rny commitment to thE! city of Cor'I1E!r Bl"ook c;md to HurnbE!r East: has not changed one whit from what i l: L\Jas whc~n I carnpaignE!d . I tJJi11 rneel: every obligation, every u n d E! r' t a I< i n g I r:3 a v E! d u r i n g !:. h e campaign. I remind thu hon. rnernber, Mr . Speaker, l:ha t: 3, '/0 0 pE!ople vol: :e d f'ol" me. Th ey st.i11 live there, and I respe ct and admire each and ever ·y one of -t-hern, as I rE!SpE!Ct and adrn:irE! uach and every voter who voted for the han.

No. 14 1\704

member. It does not matter who they votr:!d run thts basis, on balance, political for. WE! are going to Province on a proper a basis of fair'ness and not on thE:~ basis of patr'onage. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hear! MR. RIDEOUT: You can forget St. Anthony one day and fix it tho next day, and that is fairness, i.s it? MR. TOBIN: Mr. SpE!akE!r'. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the member for Burin Placentia West. MR. TOBIN: Mr.

Spl':~aker, speak:ing of fairnE!SS and balance, ~~2. 4-million for water and s~;1wer put :into the PrE!Inier's district and $500,000 put into Burin -·· Placenba West, thE! largE!St rural district in thE! Province. That is fairness and balancE!, Mr. SpE!aker~! SOME HON. MEMBERS: Is it? MR. TOBIN: Yes, the larg01st in the Province. You can check the statistics. Mr. Speaker, my question is to the Minister of Development, one of thE! few hon. members, Mr·. SpE!aker, that the Premier could pick to put in h:i s Cabinet. Mr.

Speaker, the Marystown Shipyard has now reached its lot..<JC:!St lr:•vHl of E!lnploynwnt in many, many years. Just s:i.x months ago, Mr. Speaker, Hl!:!re WE!re 600 people employed at the Marystown Shipyar~d. With YE!sterday's layoFf notice there are less than 100, L'/0') JUnE! 16, 1989 Vol XU some 90-odd people, Mr. Speaker. Some months ago this government agreed to construct two ferries for Bell Island and lAJE:H'e in Lhe process, Mr. Spc::1ab:~r, of making a decision to have the Marystown Shipyard design and construct anothE!r fE!rry for Fogo, narno1y, an iCE!breaker typE! of fer~ry ~;ervice, Mr. Speaker.

Now this govE·r·nrnE:~n t: has sinCE! then chang£:•d that, has rescinded that decision to build thE! two fE!rriE!S for Ben Island. So I ask the Minister of DE!VelopmE!nt, Mr. Speaker, would hE· try to convJ.ncE! hts co11cagues to have the second ferry For Bnll Island star·ted :irnrnc,cJ·oi.al:.r,~I.Y ,-,ot.u w:ith thE! othE!r one, and have t·.hr:· MarystotAll1 ~)h=ipyard sl:JH'I:. l_hc:· d E! s i g n a n d c o n s l: r u c t ·i o n o f a n c• IAJ one for Fogo Island as well? MR. FUREY: Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: The han. the Min .is t.er· of DeveJoprnent. MR. FUREY: Nr.

Speaker, I thank the han. member for his question. With respr:•ct to Mar~ystotJ.m, t.o.JE! ar~E! all very sensitive to the situation there. It carries a heavy debt J.oad. As the hon. rnember k notJ.Js the previous govr:!rnrnE•n l: he1pE•d with ongoing financial support with respect to working capital guaranteE:~s and other· rnc:ttl.:er·s. Thi.s goVE!rnrm>nt tJ.ri11 do Uw S<Hle. We budgeted $3 milJ.ion to help with the interest costs on that debt loa.d. With I~E!SpC:!Ct hon. rnernbE•r 1: o \:. h C!

F e r· 1~ y t h a l:. l:. h e taJ.kE;d about., rny M.inistt:'r· of' IAioi~ks, colleagur:•, the Trans porta t :.i.o n Gilbert:) had announci.ng to No. 14 and Services (Mr. the p1easure oF the peop] C! of th:i.s 1\ '7 0 I:)

Province that a new vessel will be constructed, I believe May 26 he announced, it to the tune of $13.7 million. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hear! MR. RIDEOUT: We had alrE!ady announced it. You re-·-announced it. MR. FUREY: Well, one cannot trust announcemE!nts made by the previous government, Mr. Speaker. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! MR. FUREY: I can say, with a groat honesty, Mln. Speaker·, thought we had the Development and Coastal Agreements to the tun~;:~ million. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FUREY: deal of that I Rura1 Labrador· of $8 3 But when we came to power, Mr.

Speaker, it took all of folnty-·-eight hours to discoVE!r that that that was announced during the election. ~1r. Speaker, but thE!re was nothing put to ink. There was no agreemE!nt signed. The former Premior 1 s signaturE! tAJas not on a piece of paper with the federal minist.er 1 s signaturE!. So it 1.uas an agr·eernent For thE! purposes of getting them through an election. But I am happy to say that we will be putting that to ink. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear·! MR. FUf~EY: With respE!Ct, Mr. second fE!rry that SpeakE!r, the hon. to thE! memb c;r· L706 JunE! 16, 1989 VoJ.

Xl.I asks about., the MinjstE·r of Wor·k~>, ServicE!S and Transportat:oion did not canCE!l, did stop, d:i.d not cut off that ferry. What he sa.id tMdS we are prepared to spend $13.7 million for the construction of one ferry. WE! t.~dJ.J r·oviE!lAJ tAihet.l·lPr' indeed a new ferry is necessary or whether a retrofitting of a pre v :i. o us f E! In r y wi 11 bE! n (!cess a r· y . In eithE!r case, Mr. ~3pE!aker, Marystown will get the work. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. RIDEOUT : The people of Marystown lAI"L ll starve in the bargain. MR . TOBIN : Mr. Speaker .

MR. ~>PEAKER : The hon. thr:~ ITlE!Jnbc:!r for 13u r·in Placen b a WE :!st. MR. _ TOBIN : Mr. SpeakE!r ·, I Sd.Y to !:he hon. minister that not only had the government announced it, bul: aJso thE! Cabinet had appr·oved j.t , and not the Rideout Administration, Mr. SpeakE!r, but LhE! Peckfor'd Administr·ation. That :is how Fa1n back appr·oval for thE' tlAJO ferriE!S goes. ThE! MC was put .i.n place, and the one afl:.er that rPs cindecl it . And, Mr. Speakc!r, iF these pE!Ople opposite had not r·escinded that motion, cancelled thaL rnotion, the union lAJould ned: be on their way l:o ~3t.

John 1 s today, they would be horne working. Let mE:~ ask the min:istE•r, l:.hen, Ml". Speaker, what other options are ava i 1abl e to Uw t.1JOI " k for U! r u r· the Mar·ystown Shipyar 'd? Wi.l :h U1E· coming of t.he H:Lber ·nta proj~:·c-1: t.~J:ill !:he gouurnrnent not.u con s.idur·, and haVE! put in pJace ::i.rnHH:!d:oi a Lc1y, Mr. Speakur, plans for thu No . 14· R706

construction of barges on speculation? This government previously put in placE! a program to bu~i.ld on spE:~cuJ.ation, Mr. Speaker, offshore supply vessels whE!n that market was then~. Now Hibernia is corning, Mr. Speaker, so wiJ.l th:ls governmE!ni: today commit themselves to the construction speculation of bargE!S, thE! huge numbe1~ of barges that will be used and put in place in Placentia Bay? Will the government now put in place a program to start immediately the construction of barges to crea±e E!rnploymPnt? MR. FUREY: JVlr. SpeakE:~r. MR. SPEAKER: The han. thE! Minister of Development. MR. FUREY: Mr.

Speaker, he is asking thE! rn.inistE!r to commit to spE!Culation, and they wouJ.d probably have the minister committed on such basis someLAJhere E!lSE!. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. FUREY: But I can tell the hon. member that wE:! a1ne looking at the entire situation at Marystown, M1n. Speaker. We c:trE! VE•ry SE!nsitive, on this s:Lde, to the problems that aJ~E· down there. In fact, the hon. member knoLAJS, I invited hirn to a private meeting with myself just recently, where we sat down and had a very honest and frank discussion with respect to Marystown.

This government is cornrni tted l::o trying to pro teet a] 1 of l:he jobs in Marystown, Mr. SpeakE•r. It j_s not going to be easy. But WE! are not go.ing t.o do things :Ln a krH:'e-·-j E·r·k fashion. We [_ '7 0 7 June 16, 1989 Vol XLI want to study every single option, make sensibJ.e and reasonable decisions and do things that a1ne right based on sound economics, not on the kind of economics where $22 m:i.J.l:ion E!nd up under cucurnbeJ" tents. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear·, hear! MR. SPEAKER: The time time fo1~ Question PrH'iod has E!J.apsed. Answers to Questions for which Notice has been Given MR.

SPEAKER: The hon. the Minis l:.er of Erwr·qy. MR. GIBBONS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ThE! ques tj ons on the OJnder f">apr:•r' with r1:!gard to officE! E!quip1nunl:, personal equiprn~nt, furnishings and photographs. I would li.ke l:o report that my office has spent $123. '75 on a dE•sk calculator and some photographs. With regard to travel expenditures by thE! minister· iHld staFf, I report that on May 26-27 I travelled to Springdale to a mineral exhibition and trade show, at IAJhich I l!Jas guesl:. speaker. My air travel was $311.60.

As to a rE!ntal car fr'orn DE:~E·r Lake to Spr·ingdalr) and on to Gander to connect with the airlines, I have not: yet lnE:!CE!:i ved a bill frorn Uw renta.l aqency For t:hat. I hi'-ld no cost fol" food Ol" acco1nrnodation. The total of all my bill<:; t:o dal~e ~Ls $438.3f:). SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. 14-R'/07

Hear, hear! Petitions MR. SPEAKER: The hon. the member for Humber East. MS VERGE: Thank you, Mr . Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I w-.ish to present a petition signed by some thirty citizens of the Province, people 1-1Jho J.iVE! in St. John 1 s, Logy Bay, the Goulds, Marystown, Grand FaJ.ls, Corner Brook, Doyles, and Happy Valley, peoplE! who r'ushed to get this pE!t:lt.ion to hon. member's after hearing the shocking news yestE•rday and the day bE!forE! that the new government has no provision in the budget for improving mammography in the Province . Mr. SpeakE•r, I wiJ.l rE!ad the p e t i t ion , if I rna y .

I t s a y s : 11 To ThE! l-Ion. the House of AssE!mbly of Newfoundland and Labrador -.in Legislative Session convened: The petition of the undersigned citizens of the Province of Newfoundland and Labrador that the women of Province be· given access t.o modern screening mammography so that breast cancer is detected early and resulting dE!ath and radical surgery are minimized. Wherefore your pe ti tionE!rs pray that your hon. 1-iousr:~ may be pleased to providE! the funding for the Department of Health to introduce immediately a province- .. ·wide mammography program modern mammograms in hospitals and mobi1E!

SE!rVE! thE! rur'al areas. 11 Mr . Sp1:•akr=~r, \:hE! L708 June 16, 1989 scrE!enjng including thE! major un:its to l'llE!d:ica1 Vo1 XLI authorities in our Pr'ov:Lnce aftE!r' having been made aware of the rE!SUJ.ts of the major study clbout the~ comparatiVE! benef--it and risks of screening mammography at the E!nd of last yc~ar, now unitE:! :in saying that we cannot waste any time in improving our screening mammography equipment and service. fhi s study tAla s l~o leased by Health and Welfare Canada to provincial governments only last December.

It was given to the Newfoundland and Labrador Deputy Minister of Health at a lllE!E!t·ing in Ottawa last December. Now, Mr. ;)pE!aker, I hea1~d the• Min ister oF Health taJkj ng ·Lo rE!portr:!rS, c1a.irning thai: Uw pr'ev:ious goVE!rnrnent. pr'ol'll :isecl a pr·ovinCE! --Wide screE!ning pr·ogl~dlfl as an election ploy . Now, Min. Speah~r, I stand b<:!fOI"e a11 hon. me:!lflbE •r's and sa y Lhat the previous government tAJas connnitLE!cl to that pr·ogra1n. 13ut: it r'cally does not matter tAJhat tho pr'eviouf.; government: intended to do or promised during the eJection campatgn.

Trll:! mc•rnbo1ns oppos:.i.t:.e:• forrn the gover'nrnE·nt noiAJ, and they h a v e t h e r e s u 1 t s o f t h (! rna j o r' study showing that the lives oF women can be saved by putting money in the budget For modern mammograms and having a Pro vi n c e-- ·wid E! s c r'e E! ni ng mammography program. rhat is what: these petitioners are urging the House of Assemb1y and the Department of 1-ieaJ.th to do. Thank you, Mr. Speaker . SOME l-ION. MEMBERS : Hear, hE!ar! MR. SPEAKER : The hon. thE! Mj_njster oF HeaJLh. MR. DECKEl~: No. 14 · 1:008

Mr. SpeakE!r, I t.uant to speak to thE~ petition, the prayer of which makes a lot of sense. I would not want to suggE!St any motives, but I have l:o give my congratulations t:o the women who LuerE:~ so swift. I am sure they were totally uncoerced in this extE!nt. The presenter· of thE! petition speaks as if she, all of a sudden, zoomed down on this planE!t, that shE! was totally removed from everything that happened in government over the past ten YE!ars. The hon. member who presented this petition, and might indE!ed have gonE! out and so 1 i cited thE! pcd:i Li.on, tAJa s -in government for ten years. That han. member sat in consecutive Cabinets for ten years. That hon. mE!I'nb<::!r took

part in tE!I1 budgEd:s. Not.u, I cannot he1p but ask what was she doing For tE!n years if she had aJl this interest? SOME fiON. MEMB E F~S: Hear, hE!dln! MR. DECKER: As the hon. member says, peopJ.E! still die because of cancer. ~)omewhere around 1-60 ca~~es of cancer will be discovered this year. How many cases of cancer have been discovered over the past seventeen yE!alns when this government sat inactive and did nothi.ng about i.t? That is what I wou1d like to know, Mr·. Speaki:H'. Now, therE!

SE!erns to bE! some confusion on the part of the~ member between mammography services and an mammography screening program. There does exist 'in i:his ProvincE! marnrno<:3raphy services but not an adequate number. As I~ he hon. I'TIE!rnbor points out, parti.cuJ.ar1y l:he one in Cor·neJ" Brook is obsolEd:E!. It: .is fourteen YE!ars o]d, and for ten of l:hese fourtE!E!n Y•:!ars thE! hon. member LAJas reprE!sent:i.ng -t:h.::~ CornE!r Brook area in the Cabinet. Why, L709 June 16, 1989 VoJ.

XL.I :in the natnE! of goodness, c:l'i.d UlE!Y aJ.low a mammography un:it: t.o stay thE!re for fourteen yE!alns l:.o r·each the point of becoming obsolete? It i.s s-.icken·:ing l:o hE!i:'lln th~C! nonsense the hon. ITH~ITlb\H' is go::i.ng on with. We arE! cotnur.ittod i:o an mammography s cr·een:i.ng program. Wt=! are committed to it. It is as simpJ.e as that. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear·, hear! MR. DECKER: We are not going to· enter into another ten or fiFteen years of c r· :i s i s rna n a g em e n t·. lA I h E' r· E'! y o u h a IJ e knee--j (:!Ink reactions, as l:h(.:!

Mj niste1n of Dcve1oplTIE:!l'l"l ha.\; ta] keel about. We arE• go:l.ng to do l:hi.~;. We ar'E' going to do :it J":i.ghl ... We a r e g o i n g r: o d o .i. 1~ p r o p E! r· . I 1:. L ~; going l:o bE! ava:.i.lc:~ble l:·.o aJ.l t.hu women of tho Province oF NetAJfoundJ.and and l .. abt"adol". It is not going to be done For politi~al expE!d:ienct:! on the c•ve or an eJection.

It -.is goinq l~o be• dcHlC:! right and proper and Lhe LAJOlnen of NewFoundJ.and and Labrador, and t·.hr:! men, can be assured that this minister supports the prayer of thj s petition and that: I tAd J 1 be glad to follow :H thr·ough. [ am unable at this t:i.tne to say lAJe ar·e going to do it tornorr'ow rnor·ning, clS tfH• hon. ITIE!ITlbE!(' k110L1JS s:.incH she was in the government For ten year·s and could not: do ::it :.in ten years.

But I will certainly assure the peopE! of t.h:i.s Pr·ov:incE'! that I w"i11 not wait Len Y~C!drs until all the equipment becomes obsolete but it will be done in r·easonable l".:i.tTIE!. ~WME fiON. MEMBER~): HE!ar, hE!ar! MR. SPEAKE!~: ThE! hon. thE! lflE!I'Tlber Fo1n ~;t. John's East. No. 14· 1\'7 09

MS DUFF: Mr. Speaker, I wouJ.d just 1ikE! to say to t:hE.~ hon. mE!rnber that I view this issue as far too SE!r-:i.ous to be making cheap, political points about. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MS DUFF: I arn glad you agree because that is to~.Jhat the han. rn:i.nister has beE!n doing. The hon. minister is perfectly well aware that rnany things tJ.Jere done by thE! previous government in t:he past t(,~n years, but technology changes and it is only fairly recently that we now have the state-of-the -art ·technology.

F-ive YE!atos ago, four years ago, thE:~ equipiTlE!nt that was in our hospitals was adequatE!, but it was state-of-the-art in terms of what WE:~ knew. That is OnE! of thE! areds where, thank God, we do have technological change. Where the .forlTier t_ype of equ:i.pment: that we had very · easily ~issed those forms of cancer which were not able to bE:~ detect.E!d by manual E!Xamination, we nolJ.J have the kind of equipment that does not.

And it was only last DecembE!r, which is not 14- years ago, that a national study, which reviewed this whole issue, made a report and indicated to governments across Canada that the benefits far outweigh the costs. Now I thi.nk that is pretty speE!dy action on the part of the former Minister, that he was able to actually make, and felt it was so important that he wanted to make that commitment, so that :it would bE! in thE! public r'E!COI''d regardloss of the outcome of an election, bE!Cause now WE! can do :i.t. NolAJ thE! Minister has already admitted that the E!quiprnent in Cor-ner' Br'ook is obsolete .

But I heard him on the air Ul"is rnorn:ing saying that tnaybE! L71.0 June 16, 1989 Vo1 XLI in a year and a half WE! Luil1 haVE! OnE! mobile unit, J.ikE! the Christmas Seal, which hE! kE!eps referring to.

I wouJd like to remind the Minister that I have the greatest respect for the Christmas Seal, which was a marnVE!lous -thing in its t.:ime, a Cornrniss~i.on of Government response in a time of despE!Inate pOVE!I"ty :in th-.is Plnovince, and that was 1~)4-0 and it ~is nolJ.J thE! 1990s, and the Minister 1 s responsE! to tl'lC:! he a J.l: .h carE! needs of lJ.Jornen in l:etnms oF women who rnay die or suffer unnecessarily from breast cancer, is a 194-0s response and a totally inadequate response. ~-0 M E _.t.!.9~ . .:__r:1~ M B _f::_R~;_ : Hear, hc:!ar! MS DUFF: Now I would ask the Minister to rneconsider.

I could not beLiC!l.IC::' thE• arrogance t.hat was cornin9 over' CBC, the sort of off -handed approach to th.is conc:E!r'n.

I would Like to re•rnind you l:hat: statistically there ar'e 160 women who will develop brE!aS t canCE!I" .i.n the nE!Xt YE!ar, and if that br'ea~~t c a n c E! r i s no t d £~ l: e c t E! d e a r' 1 y U1 C! n the chancE!S of those wornen hav~.i.n~J to have a radical mastectomy wh-.i.ch, gE!ntlernen, I knov.J you wLl1 never haVE! to havE:~, it: is not a funny operation- ··· t:hE! chanct:!~; of those women having l:o have a radicaJ masteC'torny or' dying rr-orn undetected breast cancer are fairly high, and I hope none of thoSE! wornE:~n are nol: yoUI'' IAJ:ivns or' mothers or sisters. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

MS DUFF : This pto0'::1r'arn j_s just too :itttporLant. to fool around w:ith . You havu a surplus, you ar-e budgeting for cl $5 million surplus. If you put No. 14- R710

$500,000 in the Health budget this year, you could ITlc\kE:~ a very good start on this program, and continue with it the next year and the nE!Xt year, and t~E! would have our Province-wide mammography screening capability. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SIMMS: Mr. SpE!aker. MR. SPEAKER: ThE! han. the Opposition House LE!ader·. ~1R. ~3IMMS: Mr. SpeakE!r, bE!fore you caJ.l OrdE!rS of l:he dc~Y, I would like to haVE! the tilllE! to plnE!sent a point of privilE!ge. Did you have something to say to the House fir·st? MR.

SPEAKER: If thE! hon. gentlE:~man would permit, I just lAJanted to recognize thE! final day of onE! of our staff members here today who is ret:.Lr·ing aftE!r 35 years in thE! public service and working in the Legislature. I refer to one of our commissionairE!$, and maybe as I am talking he could stand in the door so aJ.l han. ITH::1mbC:~rs iAdll know which one it is. One of our commissionaires has been 35 YE!ars in the Public Ser·v:ice and has bec~n in this job as commissionairE! sinCE! 1983.

Today at 12 o 1 clock wi J. 1 be his last off i cia l s hi f t , so on behalf of all members I IJJouJd l:i.ke to thank the gE!ntJ.eman for his years of SE!rvice with thE! gover·nment and par·t.icu1arJ.y for· his years of service here. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hei'lr, hear! L7J.l June 16, 1989 Vol XLI MR. SPEAKER: We wjsh him a happy retirement. Thank you very much. ThE! hon. the Opposition House Leadetn. MR. SIMMS: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to raise a matter· that tAl<'' on this side consider to be extremely serious and onE! that should bE! tak(:!n seriousJ.y by members of the House.

It 'is a point ol pr•ivilege. WE! have ra:i.secl .:it at the earliest opportunity considering our wait for the H a n s a tn d f r o m W E! d n E! s d a y 1-: o <J E! l: L h r':! Premier1s cotnments IAJ:.it_h t"l'!specl:: to UtE! iss u (:!, wh:.L c h lAJa s ava i lab-1 E! l~o us late yesterday afternoon. In addition to thdt, my colleague, tho LeadE!r of the Oppo~;:i_ti.on, cl:icl giVE! notice of an int:(c!l"li: to ra·-L;(::! a pojnt of priviJ.ege. I wou1cl appreciate the time to properly prE!sent thC:~ casE!.

I 1.1rilJ. try not to take undue time, but I do lAkl.n l·: to try to Pl"E!sent a pl''oper· case for Your Honour1s consideration. I will bE!gin by mak:inq sol'fte references for Your Honour. First of all, I want to refer Your Honour to Beauchesne1s new SJxth Edition, that he has so kindly presented us with. Page 12 of Beauchesne, Sixth Edition, paragr·aph 26, subSE!cti.on (2), says :in par·t: 11A question oF pr·:iv:ilegE! is a quest.ion part1y of fact and partly of latJJ. 11 ThE! law rE•fE!t'Ted to is the law of contempt of Parl:ial'nE!nt.

Now, Mr. ~3pE•akE!r, I :inbHld l:.o 1nab:! a Ci'lse in connect.:ion with tr·ansact:ions l:hat haVE! l:aken placr~ over the past IAJE!ek or so :i.n th.:i s hon. HousE! which, with uvidE!nce No. 14. R711

that I will present, will show that somebody was misleading the House. ThE! case, I hope, Llr.i .ll show that that very contempt of Parliament that I referred to initially, will clearly indicate that, because of the actions I wiJ.l outlinE! that took place. the privileges of members of this han. House have indeed been breached and are always breached when someone does not tell the truth in response to questions. WhE!n I am fintshE!d, Mr.

SpeakE!r, I believe you . will h~ve no alternative but to dE:~terrn:i..ne that the rnatb,,r is of such a S(:'rious nature as to entitle the subsequE~nt. motion, which I am pr'E!parE!d t:o makE!, to take pr·iort ty OVE!r Orders of the Dc.~y; in othE~r words. a prima faciE! caSE! exists. As you know, Sir, this is pointed out in Beauchesne as well, the Sixth Edition. pagP 12, paragraph 26, subsE:~ction (3). It is not your responsibility to rule whether or not there is a po-.int of privilege. We do not expect you to. That is not your job in l:his particu]ar situation. You will also see, Mr.

Speakr:!ln, I beJ.iE!Ve, that this is not a dispute as to the facts. This is not a difference of opinion. Th(:~ facts are found clearly in flansard. As BeauchE!Sn(:~ says. again in the Sixth Editton, page 13, paragraph 31, there are outltnes there of rnany examples of what does not constitute a question of privilege. The E!Xample I will prE~ sent to you. I bE!lieve you will clearly seE!. does ned: fit into paragr·aph 31, and that is For a very good reason, because our E!Xarnple does f:i.t. as a question of privilege. Mr.

Speaker, in addition. reads the HOUSE! of L'712 June:! 16, 1989 iF one Comtnons Vol XLI Jour·nals. June 19, 1959. par:3es 582 to 586, you will seE! that tAJher·e a rnr:HnbE!r 1 s act-ions cH'E! brought into qUE!Stion a specific charge must bE! made. I just want to assure Your Honour that I will fulfill that obligat.:ion. I in tE!nd to conclude my presentation, as I must therefore, with a specif-ic charge.

LE!St onE! might thing thai: this i~; not a matter for· the House to consider, I refer you to S.ir John Bourinot, his parliamentary procedurE! refE!rence book. lion. members opposite probabJ.y nE•VE!r ever heard of him. The Fourth Edition, 1916, pages 1.3~) t.o 140, clearly ·.indicates tnany Facets oF electoral propriety have orten been examined by the House. and ther·e arE! also many exampJ.e~~ :.in Beauchesne 1 s Sixth Edition, pages 1. 9 and 2 0 • p a rag rap h s 6 4 . to 7 0 . I refer hon. members to that as well. Now, Mr.

Speaketn, uthat I shall tt ~y to do :is sitTtply pt~e~:ent: l·:.he ca~:c ~nd the ~vidence. I will not complicate it. I will be prepared to tablE! any of l:h1?. info(·tnatiun that Your flonour might r·equ:lt"e but, as I said, most oF it is already contained :in Hansard. On June I) :in Hansard, pagE! 338, the bottom of the pagE!. My colleague, l:he mernbQr for Bur·.in Placentia West asked a question of the Minister of Works, Services and Transportation.

I wilJ not rr:?.ad thE! ent:irE:~ qUE!st.:Lon bul: I tAtill read l:hE! pert.i.nent part. 11 My question now is has government already madE· a dec:ision to cance1 thE! SE!COnd fE!rTy For Br:~11 Is1and, and has an MC bE!en :Lssued Lo Lhat: effect? Yes or no. 11 That lAidS l:he question. Answer: The hon. the Works, Services Transportatjon: 11 Mr·. No. 14 Minister of and Speaker, 1012

no.11 That is t:hE• first bit of evidE!nce. On June '7, two days latE!r, the membE•r for Burin --Placentia WPst aga~i.n askE!d a qUE!Stion, and thE! qUE!stion had to do 1.uith the issuing of an MC, and l:hE! member talked about the credability of the minister b€~.ing at stake hE!re for a very good reason. Here, in part, tJ..Jas the question: 11DOE!S an MC exist 1.1dth items on it dE!aJ.ing with the approval for the first ferry for Bell Island, the cancellatio-n of the . second fE!r'ry for Bell Island to recover the funding I c'J.nd Lvas st:d:t"ing up a con1rn:.Lttee to opE!l''atE! thE!

Fogo Island fE!rry ser-vice? Doc~s an MC exist," hE! repeats, "canceJJ.jng the~ second ferry for Bell Island?" fhat answer by the minister was extremely evasive. I arn sur-~~ all membr:•rs lAl'i.11 I~E!call it. HE! did not say anything. HE! talk,c•d about Minutes of Cabinet being confidE~ntia1. · · My colleague asked a subsequent qUE!Stion. "NOIAJ, lay'.ing it on thE! an MC ~~xisting fE~rry services?" ''Mr. SpE~aker, no." minister said no, such MC. Mr. Speaker, table, is there canu~ll:i ng the Mr. Gilbert: So twiCE! the therE! IAJas no Now, Mr.

SpE!aker, r'efE!rlning members to Hansard of Wednesday past, June J 4-, PagE! 599, the Premier responded to a question from the Leader of the OpposiU.on on thE! same matter. I just want to refer to the last part of h:i.s question. Referring to the MC, the PrE!ITiier sa:i.d: "It dirE!cl·.E!cl that there be no further work done by Mar'ystown Shipyar-d tAli th rE!Spec t: l:o a further fE!I~ry" fain Blc!ll Is1and. That. was in Hansard of 14- June, tlAJo days ago. And t:he date L.71.3 June 16, 1989 VoJ XLI of thE! MC, which :ls pr-obably pertinent, too, was May 23.

That is very important in put:t:i.ng it.: all togE!thE~r. So, the evidence is there. Mr. SpeakE!r. Clearly, the Pr'E!rnier has contradicted what thE! Mi.nist.E!I~ ·of Transpor-tation said. Anybody Luho would shakE! his head and say, 'No, it. is not clear,' must. bE! look:in~1 through rose-coloured glasses or fogged-up glasses, or something. The evidence is there. Now, Mr. SpE!akE!In, if l:he E!v·idE!nCE! I J.ay bE!fOr'e you w:i.th respect l.o what is said in Hansard is not enough, then :i.t :i~; :Lrnpor'Lant. t.o know what the people outside pE!Incejve.

That :ls exl:or-etTit:<ly important, too, because we are talking about the integrity and character of the House. In yester-day 1 s edition oF The Evening Telegram Thursday, lS J u n e -·i n a s t o r' y t.u r' i t L o n b y P a t Doyle, rE!I"E:~rring to this particular i.ssUE!, he cl.r!arly say~~. lnE!fE!rr:ing to the lnlc!rllbE•r' For· BUI"'-Ln Placentia West Cl coup1e of days ago asking Mr. Gilbert if there tAJas a MinutE!··-of--Counc:iJ. stopping any financial colnrnitmE!nt related to a second ferry, and tho t.Ul"::i.ter goes on to sc1.y, "Mr. Gi1b<:•rt sa .. i.d there was not." The Pr'E:!ITiier. M1·'.

We 11 s , said , "ThE! go v e r' n rn en l: 1 s position is to proceed now with construction with one ferry For Bell IsJ.and, to 1ook at thE! option of p1nov'iding sorne ol:h::•r means oF providing a second ferry without the co111rn:i trnc~nt of a rnaj Ol" Cdpi tal expenditure." He goE!s on l::o say, "ThE! govE!rnrnE!nl: has dE!Cir:h•d il: Ls no\: go:in~~ to have the Mar-ystoi,~.Jrl :3hipyar'd build it r-ight notAJ." So, Mr. Speaker, not a dJffE!rence is, clearly, a No. 1.4- therE! cl.ealnly is of opinion, ther'e contradiction by rn13

the Premier of what his minister· had said in the House earlier. So, in my humble view, Mr. Sp(;~clkeln, this j_s a very ser·:Lous mai:ter. I think the evidence is clear. The minister has misled this House, in rny view, and has reflected negatiuely on the honesty, integrity and character of the House and has shown a high contempt, therefore, of the priuileges of the House. I want to conclude by providing Your flo nour with two fi naJ. parliamentary references, -which will make it. clear. Members opposite may Find it humourous, but I assure them, it J.s not humourous. It is c.~ very SE!rious matter·.

Beauchesne, Sixth Edition, Page 20. Par·agraph 69, <.~nd I quote: 11 lhe Speaker has r·ernindecl the House. 1 It ·is v1:!ry important .. . to indicate that something can be infli:.wnnatory. can bE! d·isagrr,~E!ab1e, can (;~VC:'n bE! offensive, but. it rnay not be a question of privilege unless 1 --and I repeat. 1 unlE!SS 1 -· 11 the cornmc~nt actually irnpingE•s upon the ability of Members of Parliament to do their job propelnly. 1 11 And, in t-.his instance, the answer received by my colJ.eague, the mE!rnber for Burin -- Placentia West, in my viE!W, does just that.

Finally. the most tE:dling reference, Your Honour, Beauchesne, Sixth Ed:ition, Page 25, Paragraph 97, which I would aJ.so like to read for Your Honour and rE!ad into the rE!Cor·d: 11 The SpeakET has stated: 1 Wh:iJ.e it: :i.s correct to say !:hat the govc~rn1nc~nt is not required by our rules to ansu.JE!l" writ tE!n or oral questions, it u.Joul.d be bo1d l:.o suggE•st that no circumstancE:~s cou1d ever exisl: for a prima Facie question of L'714 JunE! 1.6, 1989 Vo1 XU privilege i:o be rnadr:~ whE!rE! thE!re was a del.:lberate att .e• rnp ·t. to deny answr:!rs to an Hon.

MernbE!r, ·iF .i 1: couJ.d bE! shown that such acUon arnounb?.d to impropr:!r intei"FE!lnence with the Hon . Member's parliamentary tJJork. 1 11 Clc:!al"ly, "if a minister rni~~lE!ads the House and gives an irnpr·oper answer, that impinges upon the hon. member's ability to do his job. So my opinion, Mr. ~)peaker, :is that this is exactly what has happened in this instance. I thank Your Honour' and I Lhank hon. rnernbE!rS for t.h<:!."Lr' indu1r,jenCE! in allowing me t.o presen t thjs case . I have don e so with numE!r'ous references. I haVE! done so u.ri th E!(Jidence.

I have 1nad, :! a charge, as requin :•d, and shouJ.d Your Honour r u 1 E! 1: h a 1: t h u mattE! r is Sl'!rious enough to be dcbal:.ed, in othE!I" WOl"ds, thai: [have ma.d c! a prima fc1cie case, then I am qu:itc prepared to move the appropriate meLLon. MR. SPEAKER : The hon . the GOVE!l"n!TlE!ll 1: Hou~;e LeadE!r. MR. BAKER : Thank you, Mr. Speaker .

Befor·e I gcd: to cl Fc!V.J of t.h~ings C haUE! t:o say about: Lhis, I would like to say to Your Honour tha.t in Beauchesne, 6th Ed:ltj_on, paragraph 27, pagE! 12, it says: 11 A quE!Si::i.on of pr·iuilt~ge ought rar·e1y to come up in Parl.iament. 11 Thal~: "A genuine question of privilege is a most serious rnaU:E!r and should be Laken seriousJ.y by l:he flouSE!." I would remind Your lionou, ~ that there haVE!, in rny expuriE!nce in the House, bc:!en questions oF privilege raised. There is one memorable inci.den 1: lAJh!':!n a pr i1na facie case of a question of No. 14- 1\'71/l.

privilege was established to the satisfaction of His Honour and was dealt w:i th in the appropr:i ate fashion. I haVE! listE!nE!d to argumE!nts and read _arguments concerning points of privilege. But, Your Honou1n, I have to say if this is an indication of the kind of thing that the Opposition House Leader is going to do for the life of this Parliament, and raise points under the guise of privilege that are so obviously shallow and so obviously do not e~ist, Your Honour, we are in for a rough time.

Now, I do not: knot.u if this :Ls done strnply l:o hold up proCE!E!chngs, or· if the Opposit:i.on House Leader simply does not understand the concept of privilE!gE!. There is no concept. ThE! hon. gL~ntlelll~n sat in the Chair, where Your Honour sits now, for· a number of yeatns, I do not know how long. He sat here as GoVE!rniTIE!nt Housc?. Leade1n For a while I would hc~ve t:hought we would understand that a question of privilege, according t:o Bc::~auchesne, ought rarE!ly to comE! up in ParJ.iament, but aJ.ready this ts the second one that we have had in a very short t:ime.

By 1 rarely 1 they mean it ought to come up perhaps once every number of years. You do not run into points of privilege because they are very SE!rious mati:E!rS. I t.uould start, Your Honour, by agreeing that if the action of a member interfers with a member opposite and prevents hirn frorn doing his duty as a member of this House, then t:hat is a serious matter. Let us examine the situation and see how anybody's privileges were interfered with. fhe "issuE• in question, Mr . SpE!aker, has to do wit:h an MC. I L71.5 June 16, 1989 Vol XU would like to go back over the history of that.

On Monday, May 29. the firs 1:. time that this issUE! caJrJE! up, the mE!rribE!r for Bur·in ·- PlacE~nt.ia West askE•d a qLwst:i.on of the min::i.~d:N' in Question Period. He asked, 11 Whethe:~r it was his dec:i.s·.:i.on 11 meaning the minister's - 11 \::he decision of the Premier, or the decision of Hw Cabinc:d: to renE!c.JE! on our position and have Net.ufoundlandeJns unE!mployE!d and l:he people of BeLl Island wa:i.t:l.ng for· a fE!rTy service? 11 NoLu this t . .uc1S frorn Hansard, page l.~)7. May ?9, 1989.

The cHlSWE!J~ by l:he 1n·Lnis \:(;r is s:i.gnif:icClnt ''I IAJi .JJ l:cll l:he hon. mc:.~rnbE•tn that: t·.:hE• dHc.isior1 IJ..ldS J'JlClde, the decision t:o pr·ovide t-.he fer·ries Fot" 8('11 Island i.s therE•." No qu('slion. 11 ~'\le In E• c o g n i z e l: h I::! fa c. t 1: h a. i: a commit.JfiE!nt was made to pr'ov.:ide ont:! fer-ry, which we have alr·eady qi'..l c;n a contract for·. As to t.l·w second onE!, :i. t is undE!r study - dnd Lhe cotnrnitrnr:~nt. tJJas t.hE·ru -- 11 Then during other proceedings in the HouSE!, and not dur·:[ng Quost:.ion Pr:1r:i.od, thE!

ITIE!JI'IbE!r foJ~ l3ur·in Placent:ia West in one of h:l~; speechE~s referrE!d to -- ('1nd l:his ·.i.s just latr:~r on thE~ sarnt.=:· day, IV'tay 29, 1989 - this par·t-.i.culdr incident jn QUE!St.ion Per·:iod. The paJ~agraph does not rnak::· SE!IlSC:) .i.F you read it. out. 'And .I hopo, I say to the Minister of Transportat:i.on, Mr. ChairtniHl, that the Government have struck down thE!

MC that dE!aJ.t: t.u:i.th pul·:ling tlAJO ferries to Bell Island, will be giving the people' - and :Lt should be , I be 1 i eve , uli 1 l no t bE! g i v i n g ; there is sonJE!th:i.ng lefL out- - t.u:.l11 not 'be r~:i.v:in9 l:hc• peop1e oF 13~:!11 Island an adequate ferry sc:!r·v:iCE!. 1 ~3o ther·e weJ~E! t·:.t.uo is sues , p r· o v :L d :in~~ L hE' f' e r· r· y service and the direction. No. 14 !\7 1 ')

ThE!n later on, on Jum~ 1, Mr·. Speaker, and this was during QuE:~stion PE!r'iod, thE! sarne matter· was pursued, and the question fl~om the han . the member for Harbour Main. The member for Harbour Main got j nto the fray at this point. His question was: 1 lrJill the second ferry, as announced by the previous administration, be built for the people of Bell Island? If it is going to be built, when will it be built? Will the minister tell us? 1 That was his question. MR. SIMMS : That is not relevant . MR . BAKER: I tAJill say to l:he Opposition House Leader that it is very relevant.

ThE! ansWE!r from the minister was as follows: 1 As to the fE!rry, Mr. Speaker, we made an announcement, as is wEdl known, and I am sure if the member had listened to the p r. E! s s 1 a s t wE! ':! k , w h E' n I rna d e t h e announcemenf about the building of the ferry that is presently starting construction in Mal~ystown, I made a commitment to the people of Bell Island that we, in this governmE!I'lt rE!COgnized the need for a SE!Cond vesSE!l for that r·un, and that W<:! u..Jould be making an announcement tn duE• course as to when this ferry will go into construction.

I assure the hon. m E!fn b e r· i t i s i n g o o d h a n d s . H a v e no fear, we are going to look aftE!r :it.' ThE!n later on the same day, -Ln the same Question Period, again in response to a question from the member for· Harbour Main. ThE:~ 1ninistE!r rep1it:!d 1 I hat;e told l:he people of' Be~Jl Island, and I teLl l:he mE!rnbE!r here today, t.ue arE:! in th(~ pr·ocess of considering, and U..Je made a cornm :U:rnent to thE!lTI, that there is going to be a second L716 JunE! 16, 1989 Vol XI.I ferry for Bell Island . Then there is another exchange which I will relevant . not quote, il: is not Now, Mr.

SpeakE!r, up to thE! pojnL - in question, the exchange in question, and this is the key exchange, it has been estabLLshed, up to that point, that the minister· in his press staternE!nl:s, which I have not quoted from here but hc.~ rE!fer·r'ed l:.o them in his speeches, in Question Period the minist er· has rnc1d-e clt:•al~ ct coup lt:! of things. He ha~; rnade c] l:•al" Lhc fact that one ferry is now star-ti.ng consLrtJc ·t.ton in Mr.u -ystown spE!C'il=-tcally desigl'ltc!d for· l':hc• Bell Island run.

One ferry. fie hd~; f u r t h e r 1 n EH.l e Uw p o i n t t h ,~ l:. a second ferr·y lALill be provjded for ·· the people of Bell Island, Lhat there will be a second Oel l Island fE!I~ry. MR. TOBIN : Did you appr·ove i.t.? issue . MR. BAKER : That :i.s Lhc· So tlAJO points : One fE!rry j~; bejng built; thE!re tAri11 1Je a se cond ferry for the Bell Island service. Then t:he qUE!S tion fi'· om the member for· Burin -- Pla CE!nL=i.a WE!St, 'My quest: .ion notAl is hcis and this :Ls r'E!ferr·=i.ng Lo the second fer ·Ty For· BE! ll Island . I will rE!ad the whole question, just so I will not do him any d:isSE!rvice.

The question Fr 'O lll ·l:.he mE!I ·nbE!r for Burin - PlacE!nt:.ia W es l: is: 'The mintster had said on July 1 that there is going to be a second ferry for Bell Island. 1 SOME HON. MEMBERS : On June 1. MR . BAKFR : On June 1, I am sor1~y. 1 Ther·c :i.s No. 14- 1\716

going to be a second ferry for Bell Island. He has just now reconfirmed what he has been saying,... My quest·.i.on now is has government already made a decision to cancel the second ferry for BeJ.l Island?' And the answer·, Min. SpeakE:~r. was no. It was a totally truthful answer. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. BAKER: It conformed with everything the minister had previously said. There is going to be a second fer1ny. The SE!COnd fE!rTy for Bell Is1and was not canceLLed, Ml". Speaker. We kE!ep saying it OVE!r and over and OVE!r agclin; the second fer-ry fo1" Bell Island has not been cancE!J.J.ed.

And we haVE! explained the alternative. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, heal"! MR. BAKER: Now that was the question, the SE!COnd ferry for· Bell Island, and it has not been cancellE!d, there is going to bE! a second ferry for Bell Island. there is no doubt about that. WE! ar·e examining the ways of doing it. Now, I knotAJ that membE!rS oppositE! have another point to make hen:!. I know they have another motive here in what they are doing.

But, You1" Honour, I would say to you that I can, by no stretch of the imagination, ever conceiVE! that what the Minister of Works, Services and fransportation told this HouSE! and t.o1d the peoplE! of lhE• PlnovinCE! tAJas anything but the truth. I cannot c:oncE!:.i.VE! of how this can E!Ver· ·- SOME HON. MEMBFRS: Hear, hear! L717 June 16, 1989 Vol XLI MR. BAKER: be interpreted as preventing ITIE!mbE!rS oppositE! fr·om doing thE:d.ln parliamE!ntary duty. It cannot bE• interpreted that way, Ml".

SpE!akN', and it has to be, according to Beauchesne, an interference with members carrying out their parliaiTIE!ntary duties. It hcls to be. This is VE!ry straightfon,o.Jard, Mr. Speaker. MembE!rs oppos:.i.Le can still do thE!iln parlii3.111E!nti:~lny duties. The Minister of Works, SE!rvi ces and Trans port:at'ion hds told the truth alJ. the UinE•. NotJ.J then, the Premier ind:l.cdted that therE! tJ.Jas a speciFic ii1C in existencco! and I beJ.:Leve ht:! quott:!d the date or what.ever. !hat MC outlirlE'd exac I:J.y tAJhat: LhE!

M::i n:i s l: C'!t" oF Works, Services and Transportation had been Lo]Jjng this House for two weeks. MR. SIMMS; He said there was no MC. MR. BAKER: It tJ.Jas ~:~xactly lAJhat LhE! rnin.is{:l:!r has bE!E!n teLling t·hi.s rlou~:;e f'or' two WE! c::~ k s . SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. BAKER: Mc::~mbers opposite, IVli". ~)peaker·, [ do not be] iE!Ve are :in ler·e~; ted ::i.n the truth. They are .i.nterE!StHd :·Ln holding up the proceedings by bringing up a qUE!S l·:ion of priviJ.ege, Mr. Speaker, that should never have arisen. rt is so shalJ.ow and so :l.ndefensib1e that it is shocks rne.

IF l:h.is ·is what we ar'E• going to ~::ec:! fotn the nE!Xt couple of 111onl':hs in L.his flouse ·-· MR. RIDEOUT You sit back and take it. No. 1.4-r-n 17

MR. BAKER: Now, Min. SpE:~aker, BE!auchesne, paragraph 31. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Oh, oh! MR. SPEAKER: Order, please! I would suggest to han. members if a point of privilege is as serious as we are saying it is, and I think aJ.1 han. members bE!lieve that a point of pr·ivilE!ge is serious, then WE! ought . to give it. serious cons i d c?. r' at ion w·i thou t !: he bant.E:~r :i ng and the babb] :i ng that I arn prc:!Sc?.ntly hE!cllning. fh::!

SpE!<:1kE!r is tr·y:Lng ·L:o listen to thE• caSE! and to determine whether or not ther'e j s a prima facie case, and it is VE:~ry difficult when I hc::~ar the babbling and the bantE!ring that is taking place from both sides. So, would the Leader continue, hon. the House plE!ase? MR. BAKER: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to refer to some paragraphs from Beauchesne. Paragraph 31, page 13: "A disputE! arising betw<:!en two MernbE!rs, as to allegations of facts, dOE!S not. fulfill the conditions of ... priviJ.egE!. 11 In thi.s caSE!

I cannot see how there can be a disputE! of fact anyway, so it would not constitute a point of anything. The minister has been totally honest in everything he said and there :i.s no i.ntE•rference with the member's rights opposite.

Paragraph 24, page 11: "ParJ.:i.arnent.ary privilegE! is the sum of the peculiar rights enjoyed by each House col}E!cti vely ... and by Members of each House L71.8 JunP 16, 1989 Vo1 Xl.l individually, without which they could not dischargE• Lhe:i1~ functions." I would say to rnembE:~rs opposite, and 111ake the point to you, Your Honour, that nothing has happE:~ned here Lha t. prevents members opposite from discharging thej r functions. They hcwe been told t:hE! tr·ut:h a11 along. I havE! a1r(~ady quoted thE:• reference about the question of pri.vilege that should colliE! up very rarely.

It is indeed a serious matter and should not be used in a frivolous way as clppal~ent:ly is l:hc:! pattern being established by the Opposition House Leader. Pa1nagr·aph 92, page 25: "A valid cJ.aim of pr:ivi1ego :in rE=·~';poct L.ll interfE•rE!I1CE! w:il:h a ME!Inber must: rE!J.ate to the Member'' s parlidiTIE!ntary duties." fha! :. is just under1ining thE! f'act l:.hal~ theinE! has l:o be SOifiE! ·i.nh:!rfeJ"OI "ICe tAdth the rights of lnl :~lllbE'I"~; opposite to do l:he.ir parliam c!nl:dry duty. I t;.Jou1d say Lo Your · flonour· that no such rights have been breached.

Everythjng was done straight and aboveboard. rh::~ minister has very clearly explained both in the House and .in the press exactJ.y tho situat:ion with regard to the Marystown Shipya1nd. There is one ferry be:ing builL, and a second one wiLl be prov :idE!d for the rE!Siden'l.:s of Be] 1 Is1and. W h G! r E! it co me s f 1~ o 10 ·i. s a rna t t E! In of decision. It may indcE:'d be builL or· it may ·involve a rE!fil: of a ferry that is now in use somewhere else .in the Province. Maybe we wjlJ have to then build another Fel~ry for that ol:he1 ·· ared in UlE! Province. That ha~~ bul~n arnp1y described, Mr.

Spc:!aker. ri Final cornrnent: No SE!COnd fcrr·y For fl(d] I s l a n d h a s b e e n c a n c (;! 11 e d . T h u r· E! has been no dec:ision Lo canceJ. any second fE!rry r~or 13el.l . Island. No . 14 · R718

Bell Island lnes.idE!nts w·.ill gE•t t.hE!ir SE!COnd fer1ny. That was the question the minister was answering at the time. Mr. Speaker, there was obviously no point of privilege. This is not the kind of matter that should be brought up under privilege. This is a very frivolous action by the Opposition House Leader. MR. SPEAKER: I will take thai: undt:~r advisement and come back with a decision a little later, maybe today, maybe on tomorrow, Monday.

BeforE! getU.n~1 :into Ord<:!rS of Uw Day I would Like to welcome to thE! public galleries sixty kindE!rgarten students and the:ir teachE·rs, M:iss Dor'E!en Wj_J.Llarns and AnnE!tte Mooney, from Ptus X School here in St. John's. SOME HON. MEMBERS: H(:!ar, hE!ar·! MR. SPEAKER: I would also likE! to WE!lcome to the galleries a delegation from thE• town of Gamba, in thE! persons of Wilson East.rnan and Mr. Pete1n Lush, in the historic district of Bonavista North. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! 000 MR. SPEAKFR: The hon. the Government HousE:~ Leader. MR. BAKER: Mr.

SpE!akE!r, I wondE:~r·, bE!fore t.IJE! gE!t onto thE! ordE!r that has been agr·eE!d on, if WE! couJd ask for agreement on both sides of the L719 JunE! 16, 1989 Vol XLI 1-1 o usE! to d !':!a 1 with thE! r· e so 1 u Lion that was pr·esented by thE! mernbE!Y' for Stephenville because of some ur·gE!ncy and sorne E·vents that ar·e hi.'!.ppE!ning today. I wou1d ask Uw Opposition House LeadE'In for Jeave for thE! lnE!rnb~::~r fo1n StE!phE!nv.i1le l:o speak to this resolut:ion, one speakE!r frol'n each stde and so on, the usual kind of arl~angement between sides. So I ask for leave. MR. SIMMS: M r .

S pea k e r , wE! h a v E! no d .i f f ·i c u 11: y with it. We discussed it with the Government House Leader ear1.ier and we recognize the importance of thE! rE!solution . .In fact~ .. lAIC! on this side SE:!VE=!Y'a] months a~1o Look some ·initiatives on ou1n OIAJI'l in support of the group over· t-hcr'E:!. I believe our co11eague, the fTlember For Port au Por-t (r'-'11·'. 1-loddE!

r) wi.l1 speak on our bE!ha1F, following the rnernber for Stephenville (Mr. A. Aylward). Then I understand WE! Lu·:i]l put -.:i.·t to a vote with no further debate. MR. SPEAKER: Agreed. ThE! han. the membE!r for· Stephenville. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR. K. AYLWARD: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First off, I IAJouJd Like to thank the House Leader for the governrnE!nt side, and thE:! HousE:! LeadE!r and the LeddE!I' of !:hE~ Opposition for agreeing to giue some tilrlE! l:o this resolution.

This issue fol" eVE!rybocly :in thj_~~ House is, I be1iE!lH•, a non--partisan issue pr·ovinc:La11y, and E!VE!n for that rnatt<:!ln, J suppose, fedelnaJ]y. It i~; a VE!r·y 'important issue For· not only No. JLJ. f\719

Stephenville and Gander but also for· the ProvinCE! when it comes to transportation. On February 1, 1989, Air Canada notified thE! town of Stephenville and the town of Gander that they would be withdrawing their service from those t1.1Jo areas after forty YE!ars of continuous service to the WE!St Coast of thE:~ Province and to Gander International Airport . This notification was given without any notice to the Government of Newfoundland and indE!ed to the fede1nal minister· for the Province, the hon. John Crosbie.

No notif ication was given by Air Canada, by the·ir board, or by their local rnanagE!lnE!nt of this dE!Cision. The decision t.4Jas mi:.'!dE!, I beliE!Ve, as many other people beliE!Ue, without. any thought to the economic consequences that it would cause to Stephenuille, the Southwest Coast and West Coast area, and also to Central Newfoundland. ThE! airport in Stephenville has been there for rnany, many years. The Americans came in and there was an agreement at the time to set up an airport and an American base, thE! reason being because::~ of its good geography and so on, and str·ategic location.

Air Canada was the first airline there. It served for rnany, rnany YE!ars and providE!d an excellent service to mainland Canada, especially important For the development of the local economy on the WE!St Coast. Much of the cargo business, the fish export business and so on, was done by Air Canada up until only a couple of years ago. Also, the passenger connE-ction~~ WE'I"e excE!llent for' creating bus'inE!SS opportunities .

Companies like Abi tibi -Pr'ice and other · maj Ol" companiE!S on the West Coast have always relied on the Air Canada jE!t SPrvice t.o mainland point:s l:o b e a b 1 e i: o b r i n g i n l: h E! .i 1n p E! o p 1 E! L720 June 16, 1989 \JoJ. XU: and- attract devc :dopm01nt opportunjties. Mr. Speaker, today will be the last flir::~ht Fotn Air Canada into Stephenville and Gander . This flight, as I said, has SE!rVE!d for many years and has provided a very important economic link.

A nulflber of effor·ts haVE! bN!n under·taken by the government of NE!Wfound1and to deal with this matter, previous to the election and after the election. Those efforts by the previous administration were very rnuch apprE!Ciated by this ITietnber and, I arn sure, by all 111ernb E!r s oF the House, and the for -mer· M:Ln:i s l.cr' of Transportation. fhere was money aJ.] ocat.ed in the Budge l: l:.o do economic studies, whL ch wi ll now bE· undertaken to look at Lhe market for the Steph env ille ai1nport, and so on.

Thr:! r·eason 1 c:dso speak specifically about the Stephenville airport is that A~r Canada came .in and announcr c•d t-:he i.r withdrawal of serv ice with out a r e p 1 a c ern c:! n i: f o r I: h o c a 1: c h If IE' n t a (' e a For ~::t.ephenv:i.lJ.e and :i.t. IAJaS t:hc only airport left without a service.

A lot of peop]e :l.n our· area have fE!lt very let dotJ.m by Aj.r Canada, 1.\Jhose rnanagernunl:, t:o this point, have reFused to consider holding the decision until we could look at sornE ! oUwr p1~oposals or· so!Tie other r E! p 1 ace rne n t services . 11·1 C:! y h duE' refused to do so and have given us VE!r'y little thought. The rE:~solut:ion, Mr·. SpE·akEH', states that we would like the Federal Minister of Transport, the hon. BE!no".it Bouchar·d, to or'dE!r the National Transportation Agency to hold a pub1'ic hecH'il'l'~ l:o Air Canada '· s d l'! cis ion .

T his r e quE· s L has bE!E!n made by ci. numbc :!r' oF authorities fr·om the Pt'ov:i.nCE!. As d rnat.ter oF fact:, on Mar·ch 8 \.he Town of Stephenvil]e wrote a letter to the federal minister. No . 14- R'/20

He has since refused to respond to this Province's request for a public inquiry or public hearing. We are asking him today to consid!i:~r that. There have been a number· of l"epr'E!SE!ntat:ions made~~ in the last couple of IA.IeE!kS, again, to get him to respond. Unfortunately, to this time he has not. The SE!cond part of the reso1ution also asks that Ail" Canada, stili being a federal Crown corporation, be ordered to delay the withdrawal of service or reinstate the SE!rV:i.CE:! -·-as of t:oday it l.v:i.]J. be gone --until the pub1ic hearings have been complE!tecl. Mr.

Speaker', that is what IAJe ai"E~ asldng, and it would on1y be fair for thai: to be done. The National Transportation Agency, 1..\Jhich was bo1"n out of the former Canadian Transportation Commission, was SE!t up to protE!Ct, supposedly, r·ur·al cH'C!.as of Canada from national airlines, and so on, withdrawing services in places that are in desperate need. Unfor·tunately, it has not bE!en working, Mr. SpE!aker, and we are asking the fc~deral mintster today, as we have been doing for the last threE! months, to :intercede on our behalf. The people of Stephenvil1e and thE! peoplE! of thE! ProvincE!

I think are E!ntit:led to ai: least a pub1ic hearing, to sec~ exactly the ramifj.cations of such a move. I would a1so like to say, Mr. Speaker, that the federal government have indicated that they tAJant: to see Air· Canada privatizc~d. I think l:hat is not: a good move. Air Canada was set up with a mandate to serve Canada, East and We~;t, and now thE!Y ar'e getting out of that, going along l.721 Jun<:> 16, 1989 Vo1 X l..I with delnE!gulation and going 1..\Jh::'lne they want to. This is a result of that, I fc~el. 8(:~ that dS it may, they have made their plans.

We are asking this House -I hope all ffiE!mbers ~viJ.J be on sidE!, and I i'l.ln sure thE!Y wi11 ... to ask \:he federal government to intercede on the Province's behalf for the towns of StephenviJ.Je and Gander, because we think it a very important matter that should be dealt w:i th. I appreciate your time. SOME HON. MEMBERS: ~lear, hE!ar! MR. rlODDER: Mr. Sp1C!aker. MR. SPEAKER: Thank you. The hon. the rnembE!r' for· Por·t au Port. MR. HODDER: Ml". ~'lpeaker, first of i3.11, I IAJou] d like to congratulate the member for Stephenvi]J.e for bringing in this rE!Solution.

I hdVE! bc:!C:!n involved in this problem, I suppose you could cal1 il:, Fr·o111 the very begjnning. I wouJ.d like to start rny lnE'ITial"ks by congratulating the totAJn of Stephenvil1e, and in particu]ar M1ns. Cheryl Stagg, IAJho hE!ads up the Impact Committee in that area, ·For thE! work they haVE! clonE• OVE:!r' the past months. Mr. SpE!aker, Stephc~~nvj lle, Port au Port, the Bay St.

GE!orgE! arc:! a, and the whole Southwest corner of this Province has been dealt a very serious b]ow, because this is a very important transpor·l~ati.on 1i.nk, and IAJ:l.t.h thE• Joss oF th:is transpol"tat:ion link the economy of the area wi]l be drastica1ly effectE•d. No. 14· R'72J.

f·irs{: of all, Mr . Speaker, it is not only passengers we are thinking about here. We can gEd: out of Stephenville, we can get to St. John 1 s, we can ge{: to the mainland . One of the big problE!lTIS with this flight is the fact that it had a J.c.u·ge cargo capacity, and that thE! main industry in the Bay St. GPorge ar·ea, the Abitibi- --PricE:~ mill are on record as saying that this wi11 affE!Ct their abi1ity to be able to work, because very large pieces of equipiTIE!nt corne in cAt very short notice.

In my own district, the fish plant there, Connors Brothers, a national company, has said that one of the reason s that they are situated thE:'re is that thE!Y can fJ.y fresh fish out of Stephenville. And thPrE! ar(~ many other companies on the Southwest Coast t.uho use this SE!rvice to fly fresh fish to markets, not only in Canada but :in the United ~)tates . As well, Mr· .

Speaker, the various large companiC:'S ~~ituat.ed in the city of Corner Brook, particularly I believe one coiTipany lAJhich deals in heavy equipment at the present time, offE!rs samE•-day SE!r·vice, which was for components all over the West Coast of the Province where there is heavy equipment. This wi.ll pretty we11 put an E!nd to this particular service. Mr. SpeakE!r, thE!rE! is morE! l:o it than that as WE:'ll. StephE!nv:LJle has a veiny long lnuntAJay. The only flights that are landJng in Stephenville at the present time are the Dash-8 prop type aircr·aft.

Thl"!Sr:' air·craft do not need as much runway space and, thelnefore, in thr:>. t.uinb:H ' t:i1ne not as much o·F the runway w:i.l1 have to bE! clearc ~d. So, Mr. SpeakE!r, if we do not maintain thE• j E!-l: service, th::!n our air·por·t lArill not be able to be an aJternate to Cander. As mE!mb1:>rs ar·e atAJare, l.722 June 16, 1989 Vo1 XLI Stephenville has been the alternate to Gander for some time. Goose Bay cannot be the altE!rnate to Gander b~~cause many E a s t e r n B 1 o c k a i r 1 i rw s c o 111 E! i n l: o Gander and thE!Y couJd not be rE!routed to GoosE! Bay becauSE! of the activities in Goose Bay.

As a mattE!r of fact, the thinlcing is that if the Eastern Block countries have to USE! another a1ternate, thE!Y wiJ1 have to use Bangor, Ma'.ine, which rneans t.he loss of money to the country as well as to the Province. Mr . Speaker, I am prou d l:o sa y, dS IAJ E! 11 , t h a t. IAJ h t:' n w e o n t h :.i. ~~ ~~ :.i. d c WCI"B OV(H' th E!rE! L!JI?. ga1 Je, dnd T l!.JdS :Ln strurnE!nt al :i.n do:i ng l:.hat ., L.he town of Sl:E.~ ph E!

IlV iJle SO IIW $;!1 1),000 ver y qu ick ly oncP thjs happened, and I believe that gesture in :i.tse 1f IA.Iil 1 assur e Hw mem be r· that: . we on th is side are tot ally in favor of th J.s mo tio n . Mr· . Speak er, I und c,rs l:and Lhat deregulation is here in Canada. I n s om e r E:~ s p e c t s I a g r e e LAJ:i t h :i. t.. Bui:, Mr. Spot:1ker, we must i.n th·i .s country take into accoun t t.hc large distances and l:hE! E•conorn.ie s of various areas of the country. It is no{: enough \:o say that uJE! arE:~ going l:o do this on a cost saving basis.

In ord<:!r For t:his country to be strong, a11 parts of it have to be strong. That: hds bE!E!Il sa~id rnany, many t.irnes and {:hat goc~s for this Province. Sui: the Southwest corner of this Province has a very Fragile economy, and if this is a1JotAJ E!d Lo happen and we do not interc ede and do what we can, then I fear fol" many of the smaller indu stries. It is no t enough to say, Mr. Speaker, that we L~li ll los <:! employees. It is a far great thtng than this. lrJ(! t,~.r -i U be losing much more than ju st Air Canada employees. IAihat 11Je tAI.i.ll be No". 14 R722

losing is a vital transportation link with the rest of the country. So, Mr. SpE!aker, I cetnta:i.nly support this motion and I can assure members opposite that we on this side support it and we do hope that we can SE!e a rr:~solution l:o this ptnoblE!m. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar'! M R . SPEAKER ( L . Snow) : Is the House ready For thE! question? SOME HON. MEMBERS: Ready! On motion, the resolution carried. Orders of the Day MR. BAKER: Order 2, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER: ThE! hon. the rnembc:H' for· Gr·ec:•n Bay. MR. HEWLETT: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

A couplE! of years ago, The Globe and Mail did an editorial on Newfoundland politics and politicians, especially with regard to thoSE! who change their political allE!giance. As thE!Jne were a substantial number from many parties, the paper in its editorial refc:~rr·E:~d to politics in Newfoundland as a 1moving bus:i.nes~~ 1 • It is too bad, Mr. Speaker·, that samE! papE!r doE!S not do a s:.i.rrd.Jar analys:is of Liberal prorn.iSE!S and policies. They would find thc::!l'n hard to p:i.n dotAJn. Again. a mov.inq businE!SS. Or, I guess from our point of view in 0 p p o s i ·t ion , a moving target .

L723 JunE• 16, 1989 Vol Xl.I For nearly fifte1:!n years I servod as a pol:i.tical aide to -t:he P.C. Gover·nrnE!nt, and I listE!n(:!d to Liberal criticJsms of our government, and Liberal promises if they tAJer'E! E!lectE!d. I listened to them call us cruel and callous as restraint measures become necessar·y durtng the rE!Cession oF the early 1980s.

ThE!Y sa:.i.d they would be d oi f f e J" E! n t . 1 E l E! c t a Liberal GovE:~r·nrrtE!nt and our peopJc will gE!t eVE!ryth::i.ng they t.uant, more jobs and lotAJPr' taxes. 1 AlJ. we had to do was ~1et rid of thE• cigars and thE:~ J.jrnousi.ne"; and the Pt"ovincE! wou'.ld. likE! tnag·ic. bE• madE! LAJhol.E• by t:he Lj ber'a] s. They aJ"e rnak.inq her t.uholE!, Mr·. ~)pr!akur, a whole Jot worse! Mr. Speaker, the econotny in t:·.l·d s Province is in no shape For an increased tax burdPn. If anything, the E!Conotny could do w:i.th a little sjmuJation.

InstE!ad, we (jEd: a $90 m·ill.ion tax gtnab from cl co]d, c].j_n::i.cal government. RE•tW:!rnbE•l" t.uhat the Liberals used to say about the sales tax, Mr. Speaker? Reduce the sales tax and stimulate -t:he E!COnomy. I r·emr~mbc'r' it. ~~~(.~·11, Mr. SpeakE!r, we are Jucky LAW did not get an tncr·E~aSl' .in the sales tax. Parents t.ui th li:'lrge chi1dr·en got a 12 per cent incr·ease in this budget, and just about ever·y other· tax and fee was raised. On education: Mt". ~'3peakE!r. T remember going up to the University, to the Thompson Centre, to Wednesday luncht:i.me political forums.

The Liberals acted like LjberaJs in those days, Mr. Spr:!aker. Rurnour had i.l: l:.hat the University Adm:.i.nislration Fo1nbade l:he st:udonl:s l:o buttur thpjr bread on those Wednesdays, becausu in those days butter JTtPlt~.E:'d at. l:.he sight: oF L.:ibE!raJs. fhe Thompson Centre cafeteria No. 14 r-n23

save~ money on electricity sugar during those days, Speaker, because in those Liberals were all sweetness light. and Mr. days and So what did the Liberals do when they got elected? They raised tu:i tion fees 10 pE!r cent. That is what they did. The next time a Liberal goes to the Thompson Centre he will see lots of buttered bread, because, I will tell you, Mr. Speaker, it will not meJ.t any more. The post--sE•condary students of this Province were sold a bill of goods; they were misled in the 'Thompson CE!ntre i:'lnd shafted in the budget. Let us look at hydro rates, Mr. Speaker.

I remember our party being hammered every time hydro rates went up just because of inflation. Now, :in addition to inflation, Newfoundland Hydro has been asked to absorb a 1 pE!r CE!nt guarantee fee, plus the phaseout of the Power Distribution District subsidy. This will cost Hydro tens and tens of millions over the next Few years. Newfoundland Hydro will only absorb these loses until the next rate hearing and t.hE!n the pE!Ople will have to absorb them. I have talked to people who understand both the concepts and the calculations invoJ.ved hE!re. Mr.

SpeakE!r, and they tell me the citizens of this ProvinCE! are :i.n for· at lE!ast a 1:, pt::~r cent ratE! hike over the next two or three years. GiVE!n E!VE!ryth:i.ng thE~ LibE!rals haVE! said in the past, Mr. Speaker, this increase is a betrayal of the ratepayers of the Province. The crowd who wanted to put out the 1. ig h t s at Sprung. wi 11 be pu i: t'.i ng them out in the houses of poor people across the Prov'.ince. The U beral colour :is red. Mr. 1_724- June 16. 1989 Vol XU Speaker, and, YE!S. H1e pE!Ople ar·e SE:'e:ing rE!d. Look at the Private Sector Program, Mr.

Speaker, a very popular program with the small bus:i.nE!SS SE!Ctor in t.h:Ls Province . The Liberals said the P.Cs had megaproj E!cts on the brain. 1 SrnaJ 1 business was the way of the futurE!, 1 they sa: i.d. PE!OplE! working a t real j o b s and in r E! <:'ll Newfoundland small businesses was tAJhat the Private SE:~ct:or Progi"dtn was all about. So why axe it, Mr·. Speaker? A subsidizHd job is better· than no job, so why takP away the subsidy when you havP not put another pr·ogram j_n :i.i~s place? What are i:h(:! urwmployc~d to do in the interim? Marie Antoinette told them to e<:tt cake. I guess !:hE!

Pr'E•rrd.er would havE· thPnt E!ctl Mt::~ech. What about women, Mr . Speaker? We are supposed t·.o be ConsE•rva'L:ives, yet every single advance in the field of the Status of Women in this Province is due to us. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear. hear! MR. HEWLETT: The Throne Spe~C~ch and l:he 13udgE!t: Speech gave token reference to tJ,.Jornc~n. and now ·t:hey l:hr't:!aLc:!n l:o take away the OccupationaJ Integration Program. Funding to thE! arts connnun:it.y was cut. back, Mr. SpeakE!r.

I guoss all those NewfoundJandE!rs coming home from the mainland will bring us back some arts and cuJ.lur'E!, so we t.~.ri11 not have to be stupid and silly anymore. HE!alth car·e, Min. ~)peakE!r: CJos:i.n~J hospital beds for the>. ~3utnrner· tAJds p J. a y i 11 9 d j, C 8 lJ.J:i l h p E! 0 p J. E! 1 S J j_ V (:! S , but. Mr. Speaker, these days \:he L.:i.boral~~ clrE• al1otJ.JE>d l:o gatnbJE:!. No. 14- 1n 24-

- They had no problem closing two hospitals on the Burin Peninsula, Mr. Speaker. I guess that is only gambling wi l:h thP well··-being of PCs. That is FairnE!SS and balance, Mr. Speaker. The HE.~alth Minister' said yesterday that it was okay for people to use an air· ambulance for shopping trips to St. John's, while refusing to fund a cancer screening program . That is compassion, Mr. Speaker. The L:i .berals promised the moon and thE! st.ars. What did we gE~t:? ~-Je got the soon and thE! nars, Mr·.

SpeakE:H' - 'some t.ings tJJiJ.l be done soon, and nar a Ling j s go] ng t:o b€~ done right away.' In the district of Green Bay, Harry ' s H a r· b o u r g o t n a r a b i t of pavement . Triton got nar a water system. Grand Bank and St. Lat;.JrE!nce got nar a hospital. ThE~ privatE! SE!Ct.or got: nar a program, and my park got nar a comfort station. Take the CabinE!t, Mr. SpeakE!r yE~s, pleasE! do takE! the Cabinet fiftE!en dynamos that ar'E! supposed l:o turn the Province on its ear. So far all they have done is turn the Province upside down and shake the money out of the people's pockE!tS. AN HON.

MEMBER: You are not allowed to read that. MR. HEW LETT: Copious notes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, thE! Premier is supposE!d to choose his Cabinet fr·;)rn the eJ.E~ct:E•d Assembly, but it appE,ars he was sometJJhat short. of talent.. We havo onE! M'i.n:i.stE!r' of Development. in thjs Assembly, we have a Min:i.s l:E!r For ErnploymE!ni: in this Assembly, and now we havE! L725 JunE! 16, 1989 Vol XLI five more of the same from the university. For l:hE! fir·st ti1ne, Mr. Speaker, we are hiring our ministers from thE! public at large. So much fo1n doi;.Jns:i.z:i ng the CabinE1t. So much for sav ·i.ng monE!Y. Dr.

HouSE! must be a br·aVE! man. He is not headin(j a l~oyal Commission this titTle. He has to make more than recommendations this t:irrtE!, Min. SpeakE!r, he has to produce results. lie has to produce jobs, he has to create economic activity, and if he fails, the Liberal Government fails. This Commission is supposed to be aut:.ono1nous and has NLDC as its privat.u bank.

I do hopE! lhclt thE! pr'E!~;sur·e on :.it l.o succeod will not cause it to wiPld its power heavily, t.o bend the rules to the point of brnaking t.hEHn to show partisan F'avot':it:i~;~tl or any of the other Faull~s l:hal: ar·e so common 1.1.dth bodi .E·s w:i Lh power. In setting up th .is Cotnttri.ssion, !.:he Premier has abdicated his responstblity to un1::!l .och~d persons. Th(:' M:i rd.stE!r' of Development has abdicated, the Minister oF Employment has abdica'l:E!d, and that is onE! t~Jay to downsize your Cabinet, Mr. Speaker.

Of course, g:ivE!n the l.I.Jay l.:he Premier has a {:endancy l:.o pr·c~ - ~=!lllpt his ministers in this Chamber, onE! could say that the Cabinet has bE!en dol.l.msiZE!d to onE!. BE! it one or fiftE!E!n or tt;.Jenty, Mr. 5peakor, there arE! only but a few good ones over there. It reminds mE! of !:.hE~ American military recruiting slogan, 'The Ft:!W, the Proud, l:h1?. MarinE•s.' I arn also ,~eminded of the itnmort.al wor·ds of Winst .on Churchi11 after the batl.:lE• or· Britain: In terms of b:'lxes, nt.~VE!r have so many owE~d so much Lo so fetJJ.

And, Mr. :3peaker, in t:.E!Y'IItS oF po~~itive act:i.on, rwVE!Y' haVE! so No. 14 R'72S

many owed so little to so few. I thank you. SOME HON. MEMBERS: HE!ar, hear! MR . SPEAKER: The han. the member for Placentia. MR. HOGAN: Mr. Speaker, first I go into my second I am sad to SE!E! friend from Burin - is not present. MR. WARRFN: He will be back . MR. HOGAN: of all, bc::~fore maiden spE!ech, that my pudgy PlaCE!nU .a West No, hE! is gonE!. He quit when hE! heard I was getting to my feet.

I would like to thank those members of the House and those e1nployoc::~s oF the House of AsSE!mbly IAJho E!X'lended sympathies and wjshes to the Hogan and McCormack familjes on the loss of my sister, in particular the PrE!mier, who honoured her name by expressing publicly the sentiments of members of the House and the staff. I IAJould also like, Mr. Speaker, to recognize the sympathies extended by the member for Humber East who, I beliE•ve, u.Jas probably her Former' boss and was very kind in her remarks and sentiments privately. I would like to thank her for that. I lAJould also, Mr.

Speaker, likE! to congratulate your'SE!lf and your two colleagues on your eJection to sit :in judgc~rnent ov~:•r us in our conduct. I do not envy you your task. AI: tinH:!s, it is like being the keeper of a zoo. HoWE!Ver, I wish you well and can assure you of my co-operatj_on, even though I am on a short leash. I havE· thE! L726 JunE' 16, J989 VoJ XLI . Party -Whip bE!/1i n·d l11E! contr'ol, and il: is timE!S, MR. K. AYLWARD: Even with a girdle . MR. HOGAN: to keep me in difficult at 'Even with a girdle,' he says . I would also like to comment on the service of my prc::decessor, Mr .

PattE!rson, who serVE!d :i.n t.h:i~; House for fourteen years, albeit it of different poli tical fa ith . He did tender fourt0en years of service, and I w:ish h:i1n IAJt-!1] oi_n his ret'ir' E!ment. SOME HON. MEMBERS : ljear, hear! MR . HOGAN : It lAJclS IAJ: .i.th SOirlE! d:i_Ff" :icult .y, Ml". Speakc::~r, that WE! sal: ht! lnC:! Fur' three or four days, I 1-.h:i nk :l t: IAJas something like six hours, listening l:o LhE• rneiTJber r·ol " Grand Bank. I would probably cal:l h i.rn the Minjster of Repetition .

But in his address yesterday he d:id catch my al:tent .ion For' aboul: twelVE! c>r' thi rteE!n mj nu Les, a11d I would like to reiterate what he said in his comments on recreatjon and sport. It would auqur tJJell for clny goVE!r 'nment Lo hE '!('!d hjs words, because For that twelve mi nut:es of his enU .re six houJns, Mr . speaker , I t_ h o tJ g h l: h f.'! t;..Ja s rno s l sincere and did have good arguments on behalf oF rnos t: oF us getting into fitness, particuJ.arJ y my FriE•nd from Mount PE•arl, myself and other members over here. SOME HON. MEMBERS : ljear, hea1n! MR.

HOGAN: I can realize your difF:lculty, Mr. Speaker, at times, and No. 14 · R'/26

particularly your colleague, the member for Bonavista North. I not .ice every now and then he gets caught up into tJJho is thE! House leader and who is the leader of the Opposition. WE!, in this corner herE!, for· idc~ntification purposes call them leader number one, leader number two, and numbE!r threE!, number· thr'eE!, again, bE!ing my good friE!nd for Mount P10~arl who, I must say, I worked with these last couple~ of days and I found that work VE!ry i nterE!Sting, very constructive, and I was amazed - not really amazed, b~~causc::• I haVE! known h.i.rn for some time.

Sitting on the committee, par·ticularly IAri l:h thE• hon. ITIE!rrtbl:'r for Mount PE!arl, 1 found it very educational. I think he transforms when he comes to the House, he puts on his rhetoric suit. But when he goes to the committee, he gets sensible. SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar, hear! MR. HOGAN: He is even very kind. the committee to hold mN!ting :Ln Deer considered it, but tJJe afford it. HE! invitE·d their next Park. WE! could not Another issue, Mr. Speaker, carne up yesterday and was brought to the floor by the member for St. John 1 s East, the issue of the cancer research program.

There is no one who rE·aliZE!S bettE!r than I the importance of such a program, and I caution her and her colleagUE!S not to trE!at it as a political item, but as something which must be brought into the health progr·am. SOME HON. MEMBERS : H(;!ar, ~war! Ml~. HOGAN ; L727 June 1.6, 1989 Vol XLI It is something which must be introduced into our health care program in the P~ovince, and be done with caution and with st:~nsibility, dnd done propE:r·ly and done right. I am not trying to be rhetorical in saying that.

I know · the value of it and I know what jt can do and what it cannot do fr·orn a layman 1 s point of vietAJ. l cllrl not as well ut:~rsed as my good friend, but I caution them. YE!Sterday, Mr . Speakt?.r, I IAJas sickened whE:n I hE!ard my fri(::nd, the member for liumber Eas l: (l\·1s. Verge), cry across the floor at thE~ Minis tel~ of HE•al t.h, 1 I·IOIAJ many WOITien are go:i.ng Lo cl.i F!? 1 Hot~J sick! iJr·obably she was cauqh l: up in thE! frustr ·ation and r·r·(;•nzy or · the discussion, bul:.

I think melrlbE:rs should bE' morE: cau tjo us when speaking about such sensitive issues, issues sensitive to not only the women of l:he Pt"ovince bul: t.o a] 1 people of HlE:! Pr·ou:i nee. J would respectfully request all ITIE!ITtbers of thE: House t:o t.r·eat 'l:hal:: and other such SE!nsiti.ve subjC:!Cl".s with the respect thE>y deserve. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hE!ar! MR . HOGAN: I also sat in the House and 1istE!ned to a number or: li'IY colleagues, on both sides, talk about \":he fishE!r·y.

I IAil.ll not dwell on it., becau~;e peop]e t.uho are a lot more articulate and know]E!dgeabJ.e on the subject than I arn addr1:!SSE:~d it: VE!r'y wel1. I think all who spoke to thE: i.ssue had very good points and tAJe were on the same: track. I do not l~h :i. nk there is much difference in our opinions, I l .. hink t.l·w d:ifff•r·ence s lie in how a fishery proqram is going to be addressed and irnplE!rn!O'nt.r::d. I IAJoul.d S<'l.Y, Mr. Speaker, that I found it very intr:~r10~st.ing and vr:::ry E!ducal: .. ional. No. 14 R727

Probably I should not say this, comtng fr·orn Placentia Bay. but I do not know all that much about thE! fishery. and I L.o.d.1l 1E•ave j t. to oth~::~rs in the HoUSE! to address this ail-important matter, something which is the backbone of our economy, the backbone of our future and must draw thE! full and equa1 support of a11 members of the House. I would like to wtdcomE! back my good friend. thE! JTIE!Illbl'::~r for Grand Falls, LE!ader number· two. I hate standing in the House without him being here to listen to me. In my E!arly days, my fir·st days in thE!

House • ~H:~ LIJa s v E! r y cons c.i o us of us down here in this corner. I think it t.~.Jas the hon l'nE!rnber for Torngat (Mr. Warren) who dubbed us with the name Hogan's Heroes. Of course we have to have a few names for those fE!llows ovc~r there. LikE• members oppos:ite, WE! herE'! discuss every now and then - AN HON. MEMBER : (Inaudible) . MR. HOGAN: No, no . Warren's Warts . I did not makE! up that name, it 1.uas my supportE!r's hE!re. So I guess you might see a tag team rna tc h one of thE!S E! days. be t L.o.Jel':: ~n Hogan's Heroes and Warren's Warts. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear. hE!ar! MR. HOGAN: But.

I do not want to get in the ring L.o.Ji th my good Friend. the rncrnbE!r for St. . John's East. Extern (Mr. Parsons). MR. MURPHY: There would not for one thing. be 1_7 ::2 8 June 16, 1989 enough room, Vol XU MR. HOGAN : There probably would not be enough room. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR . HOGAN: We have bE!I:Hl in the r··ing side by side actually. a number of t.:i.JnE•s. but on some of thE:~ street.s a bit below where we are now, and we far·ed very weLl, I th:in k. I t.~.Ja s int.E! res tr:!d also i. n s poa k ·i.nq of the fishE!ry. In thE!

ITIE!IrlbE'J"'s address on the fishery he spoke as a ITI a n lAJ h 0 c a 1'1'1 e 0 u L 0 r· a b 0 a L . 1 think I ment . .ionc:!d in lilY p(l '1 i.t.ic..-i.l campajgn in t.ryjn~J to geL E·]pcl_.(:•cJ to this House, and I tried successfully, apparenL]y, that whal: amaz<:•d l'nl:! in go'ing thr'ouqhoul.: my district l..t.Jas thal:: l:hE=! fisher·men :in thE:•:ir own way WE!J"e say:Lnq rnuch thE! sc:wJE! as I a111 hE!arj .n~J hE!r'e :in t h c~ H o u s e .

I l: h :L n k .i n o n e p a I" 1:. o F a petition or a resolution that was prE! sent e d hE! r E! :in the 1-1 o use was the assjrni1ation of inFormation into a bank, or :into a computer. or· into a central fj] E! dc:1aling with the fishE!ry. And, I stiJ.J. ask the same qUE!St::ion, holAJ rnany peoplE!, how many scient:ists, how many lAJhoever, rE!al.J y 1:i sten to the Fishermen and catch that br'ainpowE!i''. that infoJ"Irla U on. t.hat knowledge they have of the fishery.

I would say the M]nist-.er of Fisheries we have now is probably UlE! most quaLif:ied per·son :in fisher ·.ies rnattc~rs to ever sil: in this House at any time. SOME HON. MEMBERS : HE!ar, hE•ar! MR . HOGAN: I t h ~i n k E! tJ E! n t h H o t h E! r s i d e to~J 'i. 1 ]_ concede chore. I think No. 14 that. Bui: I the He has no easy also I"E!Jn:ind hi1n, and PrE!TTdE!r addres sed it 1n2e

somewhere in speaking to one of the resolutions, about. having such a collection of information. I say to you, I think the fishermen have to bE! consider'E!d. The mE:~mbE:~r for St. John's East Extern, the Minister for Flatrock, hE! has to be listened to. What he has as input, and what his fE!llow f.ishermE!n have as input has to be listened to along with the scientists and other experts in that particular area. A little bit about my own district, Ml".

SpE!akE!r: I th:lnk probably the most significant l:hing in the district at the moment apart from the fishery, and, I guess, E•qual to LhE! fisheJ"Y at lhis particular· ·U nw, is thE:' closure::~ of the plant at Long Har·bour. Two hundr'E!d and ninety people, I think, is the number given of those being put out of jobs, but there aJ"E! a lot rnol"e. At any given i:ime, any day of thE! WE!ek, probably exCE!pt Sundays, you will find anywhere From 350 to 400 people working at that site not on dirt:~ct. payr·oll of 1~ & W, but LAJit.h contractors and other people on the site. A trucking firm here in St.

John's makes their entire living on it. There are offices in Donovan's Industrial Par·k that operate soleJy on the business they do at Long Har·bour. The Long Har·bour plant. is a very int.t~gral part of thE! economy of this Province, and certainJy of the Avalon Peninsula. Its employees work thl"oughout PlacE!ntia Bay, in Trinity Bay, as the spE!akE!r knows, in Conception Bay down in my han. friend's district, everywhere. AN HON. MEMBER: Not in mine. MR. HOGAN: I t h .ink e v t~ J" yon E:~ wants t:o get on the bandwagon down at this E•nd L'/29 June 16, 1989 Vol XLI this morning.

But, they are making a good contr·ibut.ion. They haVE! lE!arm~d :.i.ndustt':Lal sk:i.11s and industrial discipline, and the d:isc:i.plim• of just Living and gE!ttoing along tAri.th ot:hE!rs. They have been there for 20 years. They are on councils, they cH'E:! :'Ln fire brigadE!S, -I was go:i ng to say thE!Y werE! in the G:ir·l Guides, but they are not -they contribute to ever·y organization, thE• soc.-i.al fabric of the cornrnun:i.t.y. I tlrink it is up to all ITIE!rnbE!I"S of this House to encourage government Lo leaVE! no sl:one unturnE!d l:o acldi"ess that pr·obl.E·nl.

NoLAJ, Long Har·boul" j s not l.he f:.i I"S'l tirne that such <:'In oconcHn:Lc catastrophic thing hit our area. Argentia phas1:1d down :Ln 1969 and t:hat also aff'E!cl.:<:!d t:he ~;aJIIE! communities, thE! same ar·c:•a, .:.nd thE!rE! was ver·y J.i t: U e done. Tl"lE'rE'' was an Al"g<.:~nt.:ia Task Foi"CC! IAJh Lch I, in time, came to ca]J l.he Argentia Task Farce; 'Lt did no thing. It did nothing! It. was in existence for a couple of YE!ar·s, and therE! LAJas not UE:OI"Y rnuch done since to recognize the potentia]. of thE'! d!:!VEdOpiTIE'Ill or· Argentia.

I certainly hopE! that the Long Harbour thing does not follow the same route. Argentta i.s sitting out l::herE!, as rny good friend frorn Mount Pearl can attesl. to. I must say, LAJhen he LAJas Uw pE:~rtinrant rninistE!r hE! did pay attentj.on, a lo-L more l:han other people who ar·e around in thai: day. It has potentiaJ. as r.~ pol''t, and I haVE! beE!n tr·y:ing to sell '.i.t for YE!ar·s as a port. I l: has a harbour, '.i.l: has an airfield.

Except for the Argentia access road, which my good friend, the Minister of Transportation, is go:ing to fix up next YE:!dr ful" me in its entirety -I Hope he is not hE•rE! to deny me. But anytJJay, he is going to look at it. No. 14 1\'72 ')

MR. DOYLE: The roads (inaudible). MR. HOGAN: Yes. That was going to be implemr::~nted in 1991. I think, it has been moved up a year, thanks to the minister over there, who I do not know if he is nodding in the affirmative or if hE! is going asleep - is agreeing. The ar'E:1a of historic Placr::~ntia has much to off~1r to l:hE! tourist. trade. On that I will tell a little story on tourism I told the Minister of Development the other night at the Estimates Committee lnE!E!t.ing. rhere is a hOUSE:1 .in Placentia called the O'Reilly House, once owned by thE! Famous Magistrate O'Reilly of Placentia distrtct.

For four years the local Historic Society worked on that particular house and not one single shekel, not a penny, not a dollar went into that project from the Province, not a dol1ar. It was donE! by people worktng on the so-called LIP grants or Canada Works projects or t.uhatev,~r you want to call them, or training programs, and volunteE!r work, Mr. Speaker.

I say to the Minister of Development and the Minister· of Municipal and Provincial Affairs -··· I had some discussion with the Minister of Pro vi n d . a 1 Af fai. rs on it -- that thE!rE• has to be s om e t h i n g i n t h e bu. d g E• t , tJ.J h e n t. h e y get around to it, to addr·ess valuable tourist attractions like that. I v·.isii:ed the stt.e, as a matter of fact, wi.th somE! pE!Ople just last t.~.JeE•k t.uho carnE• over hE!rE! fr·om the U.K., from Scotland. ThE!Y lAJE!re at the Oi.l Show, and thE•y IAJan l:c~d to visit Argentia which they did. It was one of these days, Mr.

Speaker, when you could not see the leng l:h of the car, so they did l.730 JunE· 16, 1989 Vol Xl.I not get to see v~~ry much, and :i-L was one of these days when ArgE!ntia showed its value for the Americans; they WE~nt \:here, I guess, to hide in the fog. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. HOGAN: I did not mean that in a derogatory fashion. AN HON. MEMBER: Then why did you not tell us? MR. HOGAN: Keep your wit to yourself . B u t , M r . S p e a k E! I" , t. h e p o :i n t.

I , ... , a s rna king lAJd s that although they 'los l: interest in Argent:La, l t:ook t:he1n to the O'Reilly House and they werE! fas cinc:~i:E!d that a srne>.] 1 j etAJC] co u 1 d bE:' .i. n t h E• m:i. d d 1 e of a cornr nuni ty, not prornot:ecl, not: supported, and not the main atLract:l .on. Of course, it-.. lAkl~:; only open c-1 wE•ek and peoplE! lAJC:!re rE:~a11y fJ.ow:Lng through it. The::;E! visitors from Scotland took picturE!S, and when they Jeft. LhP district, Mr. Speakor, UlE!Y wer·:::· taJ.king rnor'E! about the t.ot.Jr':ls~m than thE•y were about thE! po(·t of Argentia.

I argue with anyone that probably the future of the Placentia :i.ntertou.m i.H'ea re s t:s :Ln the tourist industry. Wtth Marine Atlanti.c :i.ncr·easing t:hE!:l.r acl::i.vi.ty into Argent ia , hope fully with a year-round service visitors to this Province will come <~nd vi s·i.t the Placentia intertown area and stay, ~nd leave their butts behi.nd. As a matt er of fact, Lhis 'li.L:tle project, wh ic h has no input provinciaLly at all, i.s nou..J em p l o y i n g f :i. v e p e o p 1 E~ f u 11-·· t-. :i m e fotn i:hE!

Summer, four si:udenl ::s ,:Hld onE! acluJ L, LhE! k:l.nd of packages t.o~JP probably should be getttng more No. 1.4. R730

and more involved in. I look forward to the Minister of Development and the Minister of Provincial Affairs paving the road to some sort of fiscal responsibility to be directed towards such projects throughout the Province. I would suggE!St, Mr·. SpeakE!r, that each and eve1ny district, E!ach and every little totAJn in the ProvincE:~ has points of :LnterE!St which can attract many, many tourists. Though Argentia, Mr. Speaker, employed many, many Nc::~wfoundlandE!r's, it. WE!Il 1: dcnAJn the tubes.

When it went down the tubr:!S, orlE! oF my pet peeves, since realizing it some eight or nine years ago, is that many of thE! people who terminated over there and who WE!nt into I~E'd:ilnernent, some of these people have been deprived of bE!nE!fi ts. As you are well awar··E• through the press, and so on, I have been urging the fE!dE!ral government and the minister responsible, the Minister of Health and Welfare (Canada), to becorn~~ mor'E! and more involved. tht:~se people WE!re deprived of thosE! benefits because of the negligence of their employer in instituting such things. Another part .of my district, Mr.

Speaker. the Western end of it, which borders on your own, rel.iE!S heavi.ly on ·the fishE:~ry. That tAJas articulated earlier in this session. The fishery is very important to the community of Southern Harbour, very important 1: o the communi tiE! s oF fair Haven and LittlE! Harbour·, and even t.o the community of Long Hadwur, tAJherE! thE!r'E! arE! st:i.ll a good many fishE·rmen.

L'731 June 16. 1989 Vol XLI An interesting statistic I might thr·ow :i.n herE! related to the Long Harbour plant: is that out: of th~;;' 107 fami.J.ies in Long Har·bour, 1.09 people were employed at the plant, probably some of them gone into retirement notAl. But, Mr. SpE!akE!r, thE! fishery :is very important to Southern Harbour, Little Harbour and Fair Haven. I am sure the Minister o·F Fisheries recognizes the inshore fishery as be.ing t~hE! Li.fE!blood of those three communities, which depend wholly and solely on the insho1ne fishE!Iny; t.her'E' is no c:d:.hel~ L\Jo r k for· thE! m . I l~ is l:. her· C!

F o 1" r,, VE!ry irnpor·tant Fo1~ Uw pt'·op1~,, :in t.hcd: par·t. of rny dis l:r.i.ci: tha.l: t::i·:t:' Fishery succeed and that Lhjs governrnent do eVC:!I"Y Ul"ing it can Ln promoting the Fishery and listening to the inshore Fishermen. There is, Mr. Speaker, For exaJTiple, a f.ish p1ant in Loit:t:]c Harbour. I am not sure if I haVE! it right, becausE! I ,arn stiLl. digging into it, but the fish plant there, I undE·J·'stand, :i~:; ow rw d by l: hE! Pro vi. n c t:! .

T do n cd~ know if :i.t i.s OIA.Jn<:'cl by t.he Department of Fisheries or the DepartmPnt of PubLi.c Works. or· by whom, but it is owned by government; they are paying the light biLl and paying For Lhe upkeE!p of it.. That pJ <-lnt has; bf:'en empty now for three or four years. ThE! fishE!riTIE!I1 in L.:i.l.t]E! Harbour would like to USf~ that fish plant and cannot. get to it. As a rna t t E! r of fact , d tJI'' :i. n g g 1 u t t_j. me s • IAJ hE! n t. hE! f :i s h p J. a 11 l:: :l s lying thE!Ine dOJ"rnanl:, !":hey di"E! t.hrot.~dng aL1Jay the:l.r cod and cd:her' fish.

This is an .it(•in which thE'· Minister of Fisherjes is now addressing, and as soon as the House becornPs lE"SS busy, lAJf' hopE! to visit there and get to the bottom of just where it stands. I No. 14 I~ '7 3 l

t.h:.i.nk the licence for it. is bEdng h~:!ld by a group who do not ~wen JivE! in thE! dj strict, who act.uaJ.ly live far· away frorn the district, and we cannot E!ven f:ind out -- at lt:~ast, I cannot at the rnornent, because of other circumstances just what the disposition of that licence is and how it tJJould apply to the people of Little Harbour. Fair Haven, Mr. SpeakE!r, is a VE!r'y srnal1 communi t.y, vet~y rE!ITJote From the Trans --Canada, has tWE!lve ki1ometers of highway, eight of which are paved, four unpaved.

I arn looking forward to my good friend, the Minister of Transportatjon taking cal"e of that. over the next couple of years. I also suggest to you, Mr. Speaker, that the very important caplin fishery mE!ans a lot to the livelihood of the people of Southern Harbour, Little Harbour and Fai.r· Haven, the thr'eE• rnain fishing communities. AI~ this tirne of year, the caplin season, they, like othE:~r people, cannot find a mar·ket for their fish.

Again, I lE!aue that to the people who are more articulate, and I am under the guiding light of rny good friend, thE:~ Minister of Fisheries, who was also, at one time, the federal member for that riding. He will guide rne and bring success to that part of the district. WE• are going to be visiting it VE!ry shortly, Mr. Speaker. In cJ.osing, Mr. SpE!ah'r, it is an honour for me to bE! a mernbt~r of this House and to be associated haVE! t.uorked I go back to that I {~h:i.nk with l:.he gentlernE!n I with to date. Again, tJJhat.

I said E•ar1:ier, we shouJ.d addrE•ss the business of the country and the business of the Province in a sensible, businesslike Fashion, and be cautious when we address sensitive L'7 3 2 JUnE! 16, 1989 Vo1 XU subjects in the manner in which we do. Thank you, Mr. Speak1:!r. For your' tolerance, and I ~;.ri .sh you lAJe11 :.i.n your future endeavours. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear! MR. SPEAKER: Before I recognize the han. the member for Mount Pearl, I would like t.o welcomE! to thE! gallr::!I"Y Mr.

Gar·y Renouf, President of the Chamber of ComtnorcE! :Ln ~)tephenviJ.J.E!. and Mr· . r~ay Mcisaac, Chair·rnan of \:.he Lon•:;] Rar1qE! Cornmunity Futurr:~s in Stephenv:i l] f!. SOME HON. MEMBERS : Hear, ht:!ar·! MR. SPFAKER: The han. the member for MounL Pearl. MR. WIND~301~ : Mr. Speaker, f:irst or all, :Ln relation to the issue that we dE!bated earl:i .E!r bd .efJ.y, Aj r· Canada pu1ling out of Stephenv:i.llE!, let me add my support, sincE! I happE!nr:•d l=o be in St.ephenvi11