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March H, 1980 The Kouse met at 10:00 A.M. l'.r. Speaker in the Chair. MR. SPE.l\KE.R (Simms) : MR. SPEA!<ER: Enerqy. SOME HON. MEMBERS : MR. L. BARRY: Tape 381 EC - 1 Order, please: STATSMENTS A'! MINISTERS The hon. the Minister of Mines and Kear, hear: I think bon. members should wait and hear what I have to say before applauding. ~. ::. :lOBE:R.-"'5: The bon. gentlel!'.an over there ~pglaud as a ~eac~ion. MR. L. BAR..~'!: I appreciate the staunch sup!?Qrt and solidarity that we have on ~~is side of ~~e House. SOME . HON. MEMBERS : aearl hear! MR. L. B.!U'.RY : Mr.

Speaker, I wish to indica~e to t.'le hen. members of the House of Assembly ~'lat government has considered the final re90rt f=m the Board of Commissioners of Publ .ic utilitia~ concerning !l'ewfoundland and Labrador Hydro 's request to increase the rates which it charges for the power and energy supplied to NewfourAland ~ight and Power Company Lilni ted and the Board of Trustees o<f the Power :Jistribution District of l!iewfoundland and Labrador. The proposed hydro rates .,.ere ref ·erred to ~'le Board on July 19, 1979 in accordance wi~'l Sec~ion 7 of the Electrical ?ower Control Act.

As was t.'le case wi~~ Hydro's first referra: in 1977, the hearings were lengthy because of ~'le concern over the i~act of Hydro's propos@d rates on ~~e ultimate consumers. Copies of Hydro's referral which contained factual statistical information and the opinior.s of expert wi~:tesses were immediately i!IB-de available to al.l 111e!llbe.rs cf t..'le House of A.ssoexnbly and the press. i:lyd:ro' s apylicati<m was then subjected to public nea;ings and two organizations formally intervened, namely, the Newfoundland and Labrador Federation of Municipalities and Newfoundland Ligh~ and Power Company Limited. 993

March H , 1980 Tape 381 EC - 2 MR. L. BAR.~: The first phase of the hearings COIIIIIIenced on Auqust 5, 1979 ·and the second phase began on September 24, 1979 and continued until adjournment on October 3, 19 79. During this period, expe:n: advi$ers of the Board o£ Commissioners Of Pub lie Utili ties conducted an independent investigation into Hydro's financial affairs and the interveners had an opportunity to question Hydro 's senior management concerning al.l a,spects of Hydro 1 s present and planned operations.

Interveners had. an oPPortunity to present independent evidence to the Board of Connissioners o£ Public Utilities on any points in .Bycko 1 s referral with w(lich they disaqreed. In October, the Board azade an interilll report recollllliending that Bydro be permitted an interilll rate increase. nus interim report was considered by Cabinet and its recommendations approved, thereby allowing Hydrp to U.crease its rates effective October l8, 1979. ~ etfect of the October increase was estimated to increase rates at the consumer 1evei by approximately 9 per cent, including ~e effect of ~i~her fuel costs.

The hearing was con~inued on De .cemi)er 6, 1979 and: December 19, 1979 and the Boa.rd submitted its report to the Minister of Mines and Energy on February 28, 1980. as ·

!'larch 14, 1980 Tape No. 382 so - l ~'<. L. BARRY: This final report has been. considered by Cabinet and its recommendations approved. Hydro's interim rates will remain in effect until March 31st, 1980 and the recommended rates will be effeccive from April 1, 1980. It is not possible to state precisely the impact which Hydro's rate increase would have on homeowners' bills until the Board renders its judgement on appl.i.cations of Newfoundland Light and Power Company.

However, !iydro has calculated that the effect of the April increasP. ·.rill be a f~~~er 8 to 9 per cent at the consumer level,including the estimated effects of higher fuel costs vhi~~ are passed on directly to Rydro's customers. ;~d I have to ~nderline that that includes the effects of the higher fuel costs. For a customer who does not use electricity for home heating,~~s is equivalent to a further increase of approximately $2.50 a ~nth,while the bills of customers who heat their homes electrically will be increased by approximately $8.02 per month.

It should be noted that these are merely indi:ative calculations and that the actual increase in ~e bill of any cor~umer would depend,not only en rate increases,but also on individual customer consumption of energy. It should be e~~1asized tha'C even after implemen~ing these increases, e~ec~ricity rates i~ Newfoundland are below those in ~~e neighbouring provinces of Nova Scotia, New B~~swick and Prince ~award Island.

I would stress ~~e importance of charging electricity rates whic~ ~~v~= the cost of service ~,d which provide a margin of ;~~fie suifici~~~ -:o achiev~ and :naintain a sound fi.:1ancial pcsi ti.on as it ·~o~il2. mea~ that. Hydro ~ill ~e able to finance morr= of its expenditures f~oz-, i~ternally generated funds,thereby reducing inte~est costs. T~~ result will be reduced costs to the -electrical consumer. !!;. addit..:..c:-~ an improved capital str~cture should, in the longer term, lead ~~ comparatively lower borrowing costs both for the Province ~~d for RyC.ro. 935

March 14 , 1980 Tape No. 382 so - 2 MR. L. BAR!tt: Through deve.l,.opment of Labr .ador' s renewable hydro-e .lectric resources, Newfoundland and Labrador has the opportunity :to have stably priced energy in the 1980's at a time when much of the rest of the world will be facing b.orrendOus price increases and even shortages of energy supply. The energy produced will not be cheap 1 but it shoW.d stabiliz:e prices. In the meantime, we must worlt to keep the inevitable price increases as low as possible. I believe the decision to allcw the present rate increases is correct and reasonable. MR. ~EAKER (Si~): Ml>.. s .

NE.MY l The hen. member for LaPoile. Mr. Speaker, is it any wonder tha1:. the consumers in .this Province an so discouraged and disil.l.usioned and are wondering where and when it is all going to end? trow, Mr. Speaker i I hope that members and the general pW.l.ic realize ¢at these increases are b:rQuqht aboat in the main by a policy that was adopted by this government, by this admir-istration when they took over a few yea~s ago. 996

Ma rch 14, 1980 Tape No . 383 EL - l Mr. s. Nearv: Before the takeover by the Tories in this Province, cc .e :lewfoundland Hydro was subsidized from the public treasury. There was a substantial amount every year taken from the public treasury to subsidize NEwfoundland Hydro to keep electricity rates down in this ~rovince. I am just trying to point out how hypocritical this whole procedure is, Mr. Speaker. And so the government, in its wisdom, rightly or wrongly, took a decision that ~ewfoundland Hydro would have to stand on its own two feet, would have t:o break even or declare a profit.

So they issued instr~ctions to Newfoundland Hydro, this government that the Hydro would have to declare a profit, that they would have t:o stand on their own two feet economically. And t."len they turned around and after issuing that ultimatum to NewfoW>dland Hydro said, ":> kay, •,;e are going to allow hearings:• A.~d then, after going through this charade of a hearing .which is a complete waste of time, before the Public Utilities Board, ~he decision then tor approaching any recommendations of the ?•lhlic Utilities 3oard rests with th,.

Li<!Ut<!nant-Gove~or in Co~~cil, th<! culprits who started the thin~ in th<! b<!ginning, whc said you have to declare a profit. ~hen you have to core<! back and ask thew. to app~ov~ any r~co~enc~ticns from ~ewfoWldland Hydro. The whcl~ procedure, M~. Speak~r, is unr<!al. The government,apparently, has not bee~ pr~~ared to ta~e a stand itself, it has shrugged of!, pa~T.ed off its responsi~ility to tr~ Publi~ Utilities Board,arD put the ~ewfounCland Federation of Mayors and Municipalities anc other organizations through t~is charaCe ,and t~en the ultimace ciecis ior- then ~ests wi~~ ~~e Cabine~.

And so today, after going throcgh ell this procedure,ve find the minis~er up making a stat~~ent ~~at ~~ ere are going to !:le further increases as of l'.pril lst. of anywhere b.et.,..e en S97

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 383 ::;r, - 2 MR. S. NEARY: S·.to 10 per cent in hydro rates in this Pr9vi.nce. It has often been said, Mr. Speaker, in this House that this .j.s a sad day fflr Newfoundland. Well, this is indeed a s<~.d day for Newfoundl.and. I only wish I co!Ud debate the matter with the gc;l'R:tnment, Sir, and perhaps the tilne is coming in this Bouse when we shc;>ald set · aside a couple of days to debate the cost of living in this House, and the cost of electriei ty to the consumers. The Newfoundl.and consumer, Sir, as I sud in the beginning, is wcnder:i.nq when and where it is all going to end.

They cannot cope with th& high cost of liring in this Province and this is going to be a further blow now to the consumer who is already struggling and the government seems to be so preoccupied wi~~ other matters that they just do not care about it and have aqain today put the boots to the consumers of elec~ .rici ty in this Province. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ 898

:-larch 14, 1990 Tape No. 364 ow - 1 <l :l..>.L QGES'!"!C~S MR. SPEAKER (Simms): The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. l(R. D. JAMIESON: dr. Speaker, I am not quite certain to whom I ought to address this question,but ! will address it to the hon. the ~inister of Finance (Dr. Collins) and perhaps he ~ay wish to pass part of it,at least,to his colleague.

Could the Minister of Finance indicate what the state of play is with regard to the possibility that Petrocan might be revi~ing its interest ih ~he Come by Chance oil refinery and have ~here been what I might describe as formal talks or high level talks in that regard in recent times? MR. SPEAI<ER: The ~on. Minister of Finance . <>R . .;. co;.:..::o~s : Mr. Speaker, the President of Petrocan •isited the Province her~ Some time in Februar~ about the middle of February, on another matter and ~e took that opportunity of di$cussina their possible interests in the refinery.

We knew that they had looked at the refinery some time before that and had not really expressed a lot of interest;, but we want:ed to see if they had changed their ~inds. In discussions at ~hat time,we lea:ned !rorn ~r. H-epper tllat they had taken a s.ome'li-hat: different vie '<~, they had not really come to any decision one way or the other bat t~ey ~ere viewing the refinery in a somewhat differ~nt light.

So we undertook therefore ,to arrange for the Recei?er to follow-up that new interest and since that time there have been ongoing talks between the Receiver and Petrocan and w~ ourselves ha.v ·e had further disc1,1ssio•ns with represent .atives of Petrocan. And, I believe, there have even been some direct discussions within ?etrocan a."'l.d ECGl:l, the quarantor of ':he .:ir.st !llortgage.. S99

!>1arc:t 1~ . 198 0 l'! :l. . D . J .6 11.IE: S0 ll : MR. SPEAKER (Simms): of the Opposition. MR. 0. JAMIESON: Tape No. 384 DW - 2 A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hon. Leader Could I ask the minister if, and I assume that this is the case from what he has said, the Petrocan interest is going to be pursued through the same kind of mechanism that was established when an offer was made publicly for interested parties?

In other words, there is no thought that it would be outside ~he contex~ of the Receiver or·dealt with in any way other than simply Petrocan seeing if it can make a bid that would be accept- able to the Receiver or to whoeve!: must make that llltimate decision [ Is that the case or h.as the govern111ent looked at possible alternatives to that?

In other words, since the Receiver has not receiv9d what I might describe as a no<rmal kind of commercial offer according ::o all reports. is there a ner..· tack !:leing taken or are you simply letting it follow through and relying upon the Receiver to deal with Petrocan in the way that has been the esse in th~ past, like First .1\.rabian, for instance? 1 0 0 0

:1arch 14, :.9'80 Tape ~a. 385 NM - l !1R. SP"S.!\.l<ER (Simms) : The han. Minister of Finance. DR. J. COLLINS: Mr. Speaker, r think I did indicate that we haveactuallyheen a bit more active in this regard because we did initiate, after discussions on a somewhat info~al basis with Mr. Eopper, we did initiate the contact then between Petrocan and the ~eceiver. ~ h e han. Leader of the Opposition will understand of course that we are not in an ownership position in regard to the refiner r.

We are merely in a second mortgagee positio~ so that any offer fer the refinery necessarily has to go ~a the first mortgagee in the first instance,ar.d the Receiver is the first mortgagee 1 s agent. But we are cer~ainly ta king a very active interest in this and •Ne are doing all we can to expedits any hopeful discussions going on there.

I think one can cert2i nly sa y chat we ~re being rat~er more active over this ~atter than has been the case with some prc~osal s in the pa5 t 1wh ich reall ? came to us or. a seco nd- ~anQ bcsi s 3..nd eve!:' -...,hich ·,re had 7er7 l:.ttle cont~ol.. 'IR • .IA !1I ESI) N: A SU!" !Jl ernentar y. MR. 5P2:>_KF.R : · A sup;Jl ementar·:r, t~ e hon.

Leader of ·~he Opposil: ion. :1?.. .;;u n ::::S ON: ?art ·=>= the reason -:or :r.y quest:.on beins:- ?hrased as .:..t ~.-~as is, of cour-;e, '::tat ! :1appen to r-eprese~t 50r-e ~~: :::e .!.ocal ':~t:=::iicor3 ·,.rho ar~ ::..mor-~g :n:~ :::~ns'C.it~e!1t3 .:.nd so on ::.nd I ·..;auld li.ke -::.o 2.sk ~:,e :1on- Y!i:1ister :;f ?i~ance (Dr.

Call:r.s} ~.vhe~~er Gr noc, =~~ instanca,he envisages anc! if a .:;ol•1tior. tv t~is matter comes a.bouc ::~~ouch ?~troca:J. 11-:t r.1s say, t~rou·~n ?etro .:..::.r'1.ada, ·,..,ould t~e ::::·ositi0n -::-f ~~e !ocal ==edi=ors be any diffe=en~ tnan if some ~ri?~te corpor~~io~ or t!'.e like ~ad 3.c~1ired the ;:ro9erty? :1P..

S?!::AKE:<: ~~e hon. ~inist:r of :ir.ance. ]~. :oL.~L:- r~: 'tr. :;peak-s~, : de net · .... ·a::t ;:o :.r..ci.:c.=.~= chis staae of course that the~e is -3.nv real, shall r.-1e say , proposal on t~e g~ound ~hat is ooincr ~o ~o ~~~ad ~~th ~~troca~. rf ~~at is 3Cin~ ~o be !:~e ·::sse~ there hav-: ~a be some .::e!:'tair.ly inter'TIIediate st::=!_Js. I 7-o ~ct I 0 0 1

)larch 1.-, ~980 Tape ;.To. iSS !liM - 2 uR . COLLINS: wa.r.t: r:o civoe che imPression that there .is a very imm.i;le.'1 c. ::.hing t!"!e:-e. ! E !t shoulC cOD"e about: , clearly ?et. =oca .n will hav e a loc t:> say in that matte :-, how they =~sponci to t.~at gJescion.

Sue ! might say that ~his has been 2 ve::y !.mporta _nt ;;oin:c wich c~is qove .~nment. !n aJ.l our discussions ove::o :L~y o-c!i'!r ?roposal .s we ·..ret:e ·rtary fi:!':n or: t!lis, :..."tat ~e ·.wanted t.~is estion of some recompense to che loc3l u~sEcur~d = ~sCi~o~s ~o be i~ ~n~ ,?roposal , ia any final rS!soluci.on. of che oac ::e::. ··le ro~e ::s ~.;e ry ir.sis::e:1t. o~ chac ~~c I ~u!d expecc ~ha~ ~e ~i~ ~ake Che same ;osit~on ~i~~ ~y ~ew ?roposal , oe it ?et rocan or anyone else. :•8. JA..'1I ~S ON: A !inal supplemencary. MR.

SP5~~? (Simms): ~ f~nal suppleme~tary, ~~e ~on. ~e3de: of .:~e Cpposic. -!on. )!R . .JA.".XZSCN : ~1y ~as:. -3UP:Pl~:nenury is, ! :::U:t.lc:. ?roha.bi~ ~s~ app~o9riacely di =ec~ed =? ~he 'l~~i~~=~ of ~~~as ~~d ~~e=cy a~C :~ :.s v-e~y u:.uc!': se~ k.!....~c; L"'lfOr::t:!:::.cn ~ecause .! .:m no-c : ::ec:--.n.:.cia:-t,:,u-c :~e ·,.-o r: is t:--:a::: :;,e :.:.r.cs , ~:!' :he sam;:les ,or ·~nacette~ ~ne .. N.t.si"'.es :.:J ::al: ~:tern .:t~o -m cf".e ?~esen ~ explc~a::ion of -:s -ho ::~. a:td =--~e :i:'l~ae:e ~~~·~_en ~ poc~~::al ;se ?i :ome 3y c ~~~c= ar.C ~h2 a::s h cr~ 1e~lo~e~~, ~~ac -:b.; :iLs:o<.t2~ ~~s r:her~

~1a.:::~n l-i ,198 0 ~a?e No . 386 A!! -1 ~l;i..J;<~!IESON : are no~ capabla ,aas i!y ,o f ~e i 3g u?g r;lC.ed or grocasseC a: ~he- Come sy Cha:1...:e re=ine~y as ic p~asencly e xis~ s. Can ~~e ~i~i ste.::: s ~hro~ any ligh~ on t~ati ::1 ot:he _r ·o~~ord s, ~a ul d t.h er-e :-t.ao:re :.o be a compl~ce =~ vision o= ~:;e s~=uct:ure a~ Come 3y Cha~e!i in orde-:.- ~o accomoda~e i~ se!.E t:o the ?a~cicular type o r vil? as oppo sa d ~o sou;- ~ r .::cmec~i :1g . ~~- SP ~A K ~a {Simms ): E:le,-gy. :1?... 3ARR!!: ! =hL;k the ·.-ord i<: sweet oil The hon. Minister Df Xines and Mr.

Spe~k==f ic is ou ~ ~nd~ ~s ~anCih~ ~ r Qm che ?rel ~minar~ i~ ! ormat~on ~hac h~s bee~ g~ve= ~s ~y ax~~=~s = ~et ~~is is ~oc c~e ~ase, ~ha~ in Eact a =omme::~al!y ··~ abla ope rat i~c at Come 3y C~ance =ould be pcssible ~!ch v~=Y :~~~le in the way or modif:cacions co t~e ?la~~ a~d :~ f~c~ ~i=~ :~ss mod~!Lcations ~~a~ ~c ul! b~ ~aG~ir~~ if i~ ~~=e :o ~e~! ne ~he sou: ==u~e ~o ~ whic n che o:isi~al ~es~;n ~as ?l~~~e~. ~o ~e a~e opci~~~t~c ~ h a~ ~r.~ ?~vdu=~ bf ~ibe~~ia .~hi=~ i5 3 !.~w sul~h~r o :: swe~t. .o:..l, o:: ~ :~:;he co :nc1i'-.:m 1 -: ~:.~~y - :.·..,.o A?!, ~r Ame~ican ?etr~l~~~ Indax , ~h~ch has ~ode ~1 ~ ~ ~ he v:. -scos : -cy C·~ ~~e .wi 1, ~~e;: -:·~e --:J: -,i.l .:~ul .d be re:Ei;:eC ~c -·:ue 3y ~~~~c~. ~R.

N'EA.R.Y: ··~ ..::tat cO:s~ a :ar:-~1 :..~u-ci:.:;:.~ :·!~. "'3~ .~:;.;: ·~t .Ll!. ·-e. =aom .pe-:..:..c.~v -= 1 ~ 4 !'. 3?e~t.::a:-, .:.s ou -: !'\.Ce ~s::~ ~d :.:"L o; · :-t:: . 3?cake:-, !.: - co;,;!.::,~~ ..l ?C~n~ o : ~~je= ~e=~te 1own,aa ! ~nders~a~e r ~~~~ a~s~e~ed :he q~~s~ : ~n . :r.:; •. = ":;.; ;<.1; :t: :o. p.,: n:. ~= or ·:. ~:: . :-::.-= ;,:;)~. :!::.ni:;:. =: ~; M~~~s anC ~ne~gy. :1 ?.. 3A? .?.Y: I :a~l~~ :o ;ec y ~~= ey~ :or ~~c : ~er XL~~scer!~: St~~~men: ~2!~~ ~ ve we~ : ~o 'uc s~~=~ ?~~~~ci. r: ~? HJ03

lola:c~ l·L lS3 0 Tape No. 386 AB-2 ~R.3A~R'!: leave of the ~ouse - ~L~. N::A~'t': After ~he Quest~on ?eriod. :i~.3A~!\'{ : - at the end or wherever. )o!R.S?~AKE~ (Si~msl: To the poin~ o: order. The hon. ~ember ::or La?oile. ~IlL 3ARR'l : No . At the end o: Questlo n ?'E!rio d is fi.-:e. :n.. S?!:AK;::?.: Wic~ respec~ co the ?Oi~~ o: orcer, ~c is ~oc a ?O~r.t o= order ~u~,by !~ave, af~e~ che ~ue s~ion ?e::-lod.

The hen. member :or LaPoile. .'!!L:-IEA~Y: ~y Guestion i3 ~o: ~ha ~i~is~~: o! ::onsu:ner ?.;:airs (.'! rs .~ e·,..!\ook ), Sir, and : '-'a.:l t -:o say t.~ac alt hough r have to g:~.ve :he C3C an ass~st 1 lt Nas ~iqh on my :ist. of ?::-ior!.t.J.es t.-o ~sk :.~ :.he ~ouse !.ny·...,ay . : wa:"lt <:o -!.sk che ~~n~s~~= o: C~~ su~e~ A::a~::-5 (~::-s ~awhoO~) 2b0~: ~~le?hOn~S: •n: :.c is in ~!e• ... :oun<i.land ::hat lle•,..foundlanders ::~n :10:: ~o out ~nd buy cheir own cel~phon~s ~nd ose t~~i= ~wo c~laphones in ::~a i:: ~ocse s? !3 L': ac; -air:s;;. -:he ta~ :-:: ~ew:o.:ncl~nce~s ::lo = h~s ~~~ ~! so 13 :~e Din13cer ;!v~n~ ~ny cons~~~~~~!~~ =~ c~an;~~~ ~his i~ol~sh se~u?? !'!~ .

S?S?.~ S~: ~~e ~o~ ~ ~~~is ~~~ c: =~~scmar ~~~a:=s a~C E~v::~nze~t. r.~s . s=::·J:iJC!<. = Ygs, ~:-. 3;e~:.C~:-, - -;~.t.~:C :. ::~ ':elaphcno: company :ioes hav'1 ! :·1-:-e ..!f c.q:-4!~mer:.:: a::d :::!.3 .!.;; ~ =~~~ o: le~~sl~ti~n l. :-eally C-i$;~n~~ ;c ~:t-:.c :.: :»e~3'JS: - :an::oc ~~7e fOU ~~e ~e~a!:s ~= i ~" ~c: ocr ~e;~:-:Qa~~ 1GOt.

March l.4, 1980 Tape 387 EC - l MRS • li . !IIEWHOOK : is looking into it a.nd we are hoping that we can have this reversed so that people will be free to buy t.'leir own telephones as they can in parts of the United States. MR. S. NEARY: Hr. Speaker, a supplementary. MR. st>"EAKER (Simms) : for LaPoile. MR. S.

NEARY : A supplement~, the hen. the member If I understand the minister correctly, then we can look forward in this session of the House to legislation being ~rought in making it legal so that the telephone company will no longer nave a monopoly, making it legal for llewfoWldlanciers to be able to go out to these stores and buy their own phones and use their own phones in their own homes. Is t.'"Lis what the lllinister is saying, that there will be legislation in this session of the House making this legal? MR. SPEAKER: Th.e hon. the Minister of consumer Mfairs and Enviror.ment. ~"'S • a. NE:lffiOOK: Well, Mr.

Speaker, I do not k.noW how ~c~ly we can bring t.'"Lis about, but certainly, we will do our best and we will do it as quickly as "'e can. MR. S. NEAP.Y: MR. SPEA.'<E~: me!llber for LaPoile. MP •• s.~: Mr. Speaker, a final supplemen=ry. A final supplementarJ, the hoc. the Would the minister explain tor my own benefit,and probably the benefit of other mernbers ,why it canno~ be dcne now? Wha~ is in the way that bars people now from owning ~~eir r.r.o~es? What legisl.a~ion, •om at laws are therE? Or is it an agreec:er:t, or does the telepllone company just have a monopely themselves?

W!J.at is it ¢at stops Newfaundlande+s new from owning their awn phones? MR. SPEA.tCE?..: 'l'he hon. t.'le Mi."lister of Consumer .1\.ffairs and Enviror~nt. MRS • R • NE'liHOOK: Hr. Speaker, I am afraid I do not hav<9 c.be details of this information b.ut I certainly will get the information and bring it into this !louse no later than - Ma. S. NEARY: '!~ac. ~~ill be : :.r.~. 1005

March 14, 1980 Tape 387 EC - 2 MR. SPEAKFR (Simms) The hon. the member for Carbonear. MR. R. MOORES : Mr. Speaker, normally I would direct this question to the appropriate minister, but,because of ~~e seriousness of the ramifications of the situation, I would like to direct it to the hen. the Premier. By way of

preamble, Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that for ~~e past t~enty-five years in ~~e Conception Bay area,which now comprises some 40,000 to 60,000 residents, there has been a serious communications problem, and in part ~~at communications problem has been resolved by a decision of the CRTC recently to allow ~~e Colonial 3roadcasting System, better known as VOCM, to construct a radio station on the perimel:er of the boundaries of Car.bonear. Just recently, the provincial governme~t, namely, the ~epa~ent of Transportation and Communications, rejected ~~e Station's request for ownership of Crown land.

Would the Pre~~er order an appropriate investigation into ~~is situal:ion in ~~e hope that i~ would be reversed? !IIR. SPEAKER: The hen. ~~e Premier. ?g&'1IER PECXFORD: Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. :nembe:r :'or ~is question.

Two weeks ago I orde~ed sue~ ~~ investigation, s-=- I a!i\ glad to see that I have been two weeks ahead of the hon. the ~e-~er for C~bcnear on this very important ~ssue for the people of Cocception D2y. ~-!ay I also acid t..1.a'C I am aware ~"la't ~here :,.,ere t"o~~c licences issued, one ;::o the Coionial 3roadcasting syste.'11, but also one to ~~e } R.aC.io Sys ;::e:n i~ o=Cer to improve that ccmmur~cations system.

We ~e ~ork~ng on ~c~ ·rhe Minister of Tr~~sportation ~~d Communicacio~s (XI. c. 3rec;::) st2r~~= two weeks ago after we had ~lks w~~~ Color~al Broacicast~ng Corpo=a~icn to ensure that land will be made available so ~~at that improv2~ commur~ca~ions system indeed car. be brou~~t abou~ in the ~on. ~a~e= 1 s area and other hon. members' of ~~s House. i r. (""' wUo

March 14, 1980 :1R. ::!.. MOORES: MR. SPEAKER (Simms) for Carbonear. MR. R. liOORES: Tape No. 388 DW - 1 A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. A supplementary, the hen. member So as I understand it, for fear of not having it clarified,the Premier is saying that in all likelihood there will be a decision, a positive decision in the favour of Colonial 3roadcasting to construct.a station in Carbonear, not in Port aux Basques? MR. NEARY: (inaudible) in ror~ awe Basques MR. SPEAKER: The hen. the Premier. PREMIER PECKFORD: Mr.

Speaker, in answer to the first question,! indicated that the government about two weeks ago begam talks with Colenial 9roadcasting Corporat!on in order to ensure that they had sufficient land in order to establish t~ei~ statio~ so that ~hey could get on ~he ai~.

Whether -:hat is just •.rithin Carbonear or just outside the bounciary of Carbon~a=, whether it is i~ Har~our Grace o= whe~he= it is in Bay ~obe~ts, a suitable site to allow for the sta:ion to be built so that communication ca~ ~e p~o- vided t~ the area a~d to that end ~e will striv~ and I =~ sure ~e ~ill ~i~d a ?OSitive 5olutio~ to it if al~~~6y i~ :,.as :tot occurred. I know it i.s well unde:!'Way a:1d it s~arteC abou~ fourteen or fifte~~ days ~go. -'lR. S?E ... K:OR: ~he hon~mem~er for ~or~g~~ :~ou:Itain;:; ~ ~R.

G . '.-lA.?.?.!:N : Mr. 59eaker, my question is ~o the ~inister of ~uni~ipal Affairs and Housinq (~r. Windsor } I would like to ask the minister if his ~epart~ent ha3 any ~equlations res~ricting the i~stallation of wood stoves or wood furnaces in houses owned by Newfoundland and Labrador Rousing Cor?orat io n ? ~R. S?EA"!:R: The hon. ~inister of ~uniciual Affai=s and ~ousi~g . 1 u 0 7

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 388 ow - 2 MR. N. WINDSOR : Mr.

Speaker, I think the situation the !len. gentleman is referring to is the one in Happy Valley - Goose Bay where a number of units owned by the Newfoundland and Labrador Sousing Corporation,rented to persons in that area, a number of people there apparently began to install such units with­ out any reference to the fire department, without any reference to the town council, without any reference to normal safety r eq u ir em en t s , and the Housing Corporation obviously had to take some action to stop that sort of procedure. :.ie would not be totally adverse to something that was done, and installation that was done in accordance with proper r~quirements.

However, the difficulty here is that these are rentals units and people come and go and we would prefer to see it done by a Housing Corporation, if indeed, there is a need for wood burning s~oves or furnaces to be installed in these units. I see as a far more critical problem in thac area, Mr. Speaker, the low grade of insulation in these units and ! have taken action to approach che fgderal government to see if a CHIP prog~amme can be a?plied to these ~nits and w~ will be movi~g along wit~ tha~ with all Cue haste. ~R. SPE)...K'='R. . (S.i.:nms) The hen. membe~ for the Strai~ of Belle Isle. :~:> .. :S .

R.0 3:S R '!"S : ~ ~4 S p~a k e~, my ques tio n is =o= t:,_g ~inis~er of H-ealt!-1 (Mr . House) and I •11onder if at this time the ~inister is any position to make a sta~em~nt ~i~~ respect to the ongoing negotiations be~w~en ei~her the go~2rn­ ment or ~CP,or ~oth,and the Newfoundland ~edical ~ssociation with =especc to t~e f~e schedules~ Tha mi~ister , of cou=se , ~ill recognize that the question is prompted ~y the decision of ~H-I A to go ? ub 1 i c in a E a±:r 1 y spectacular fashing ...,i~'l ~'leir side of ~h€ stor7. 1 u G 8

March 14., 1980 Tape No. 389 EL - l MR. SP::AI<ER (5 i111It1s) : The hon. the Minister of Health. M.."'l.. W. HOUSE: Mr. Speaker, just af~er ~~e N.M.A. settled last year, sometime,! think,in October with retre­ activity to April for 8 per cent, there vas a committee set up by government of the Newfour..dland Medical Association, the government departments, Treasury Board and Department of Health and the MCP people,to make recommendations to government re~ardirtg dcctcr remuneration, or the physician, I suppose, or MCP remuneration MR. ROBERTS : Money. MR. W. HOUSE: Money, yes.

I do not ~,ow if that new song that is out 'I Want Money" emanated "'from that or not. That report, I think,has been ccmpleted. It has not been acted on, we have not made any decision. The report is ~ advise government and I think it has been receivec and it is in the process of being assessed. And, of course, it will be taken into consideration in the ~udgetary process. MR. E. ROBERTS : A supplementary, ~- Speaker. MR. SPEA.'<ER (Simms) A supplementary, ~~e hon. the Me~£er for the Strai~ of 3elle Isle. ~~. E. ROBER~S: Thank you, ~r.

Speaker, May I thank the minister for that information and ask whether the report will be macie ~~~:~~or whether he regarcs it as being an internal government ~ ocu­ ment? - ·,.,.:-_ich would SUI!? rise m~, ! MAY say, because it ~as b~en FUt together apparer .. tly wit:;."l qui'te '"'ide involvmt!nt from a lot of peopl.~ who are not in any way involvec in the e~loy of th~ governme~~- MR. SPEJI2a:R(Si:mns): The hon. the ~inister of F.eal~h. ~3.. N. COUSE: ~r. Speaker, as far as I knew it is a govermnent docum~nt.

It is a doco.llllent done for gove=.ent to guide gove=ment. and at this point in time ! cannot say whether it •,;ill or will not be made public. !t is just for the benefit of' government to make some decision on. 1 G 0 9

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 389 EL - 2 MR. E. ROBERTS : A supplementary, Mr. Speaker. MR. SPEAKER (Simms} : A supplementary,the hon. the Member for the Strait of Belle Isle 1followed by the hon. the member from t.ewisporte . MR. E. ROBERt'S : Thank ycu, Mr. Speaker • Aqain to the Minister of !iealtn; since he is not qoinq to make the doc:ument public, apparently, ecul.d he tell us when we miqht expect some decision and some annoaneement on this qiven that we now ha'V'I! state~~~ents hy the NMA and 1! may add, statements in the House by , a elll.inently qualified qentleman, the member f<:~r St.

John's Cent:-e ("Dr ..McNicholas) ·, which - to indicate that all is not well with the health services in this Province,particularly on the medical side, the physician's side? Given th;;~.t and given the fact that that will create widespread concern, as it should and as it is intended 1:0, when may we expect some announcement from the minister and his eclleagues with. respect to this isssue? MR. SPEAKER (Silmns): ~P .. W • BOUSE : The bon. the Minister of ~ealth. ·Mr. Speaker, two points first, the fact that the Newfoundland ~edical Association 1 Q 1 0

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 390 SD - l MR. W. HOUSE : have put on a campaign to express their concern. This was made known to us back in October, I think, of '79~ they advised that and, of course, they did t.~is with our blessing. We know that - MR. ROBERTS: statements the government ~R. W. HOUSE: sit=tion, yes. AN HON. MEMBER: !o!R. E. ROBERrS: (Inaudible) public Public statements about their own (Inaudible) Dr. Whalen was interviewed in ~~e newspapers. MR. W. HOUSE : Yes, I knew tha~ was happening. He talked to me about tha~ ~efore. MR. E. FCIBERl'S: with your blessing, with the minister's blessing; !o!R. W.

HOUSE : Well, he stated t.~a~ he had talked to us, I t."link he made reference to the fact that he had sympathy with our situation and he recognized the si~uation that we were in. So they are pointing out the situation of doctors rela~ive to pay in t..'1.e P"!"ovince and we knew this was going t~ happ~n.. ~!len ·~e will be able to make some sta~ement as to what is going to happen is a budgetarf consideration and, of course, ~~at will =e done in due course. ~.R. SPE~R (Simms): The han .. ~ember for Lewisporte. ~:::t .. F. ~NH!TE: Mr. S~eaker, i~ ~he abse~ce of the Minister of Fisheries (~. J.

Morgan) I would li~e to ask tr.e Premier a question rela~ive to the seal hunt. The last ~~ or three years ~e saw ~undreds of ~~ousands of dollars oZ public mc~ey being spent by the govern:nen-c. to defend the seal hu..'"lt -ch~oughc;,:~ the world and I am wondering ~ow whether ~~e government has dropp~d t....~a'C policy? I know they are still def~nding t.he seal hu..-:.t., -...-e all are 1 ~ut I arn JUS 'C. wondering whether or n.ot any a f ~'"'lose Sl:eps t-"'1at: y~~ere l:aken t.hose past :ew years are going to be coc.~inued u~C:~-2 ~ ~e prese~c goverr~"en~: 1 [j

March 14, 1980 MR. S. NEARY: MR. SPEAKER (Sii!IIIIS): PREMIER !'EC~ORD: Tape No. 390 so - 2 Not with McConnell they will not. The hon. the Premier. The decision right now, Mr.

Speaker, is to not get involved in additional public expenditures as it relates to defending the seal hunt. 'lie want to eltalll.ine just what the consensus is around North America and Europe and it would seem, I think evidence bears me out on tio..is over t..'le last number of weeks, that there does not seem to be the same kind of strength and intensity to the anti-seal movement,both in the United States and in E~rope 1 as it has been in former years. One can speculate as to why t.'lat is so. Is it because that the progral!11ne that the government ?Ut on over the last number of years was so effecti•Te?

Is i:: because there are other t.lti.ngs '"'hich are taking up the time of these interest groups? Is it t.'lat they have changed their strategy to a more subtle and oblique way of trying to get it across or whatever. Suffice it to say now, we are just willing at this point in ti:e to sit back, if you will, and '"'atch to see •,o~hat doe ·s happen as it relates to the whole seal fishery ar.d whec..l-jer in fact any particular special endevors will have to be made by the govern!r.ent.

It does not seem "to us, in this pre- sent year that., that will be necessary and we will view and loo~ cautiously upon what happens over ':he next year or so to see whet.~er in fact this particular policy now needs to be ch~~ged again and additional public funds spent. But I think the message has qone out fairly loud ~~d clea~ besides which, of course, t.~e United States with thei~ ongoing seal hont on the west coast has di·~rt:ec some attention away and a lot of ~~e qroups have spent some time on it.

So that is the present ?Osicion,that we ~ill not be spe~~i ~g any money directly upon a pro-sealing campaign because a~ this point in time we do not t.~ink it is necessary. ~. F. WHI~E : A supple~entary, Mr. Spea~er. 1 [J l 2

March 14, 1980 O:ape No. 391 )IM - 1 MR. SPEA..'CE!< (S:L"!litls) A sup?lementary, the hen. member for Lewisporte . ~- F. l-IHITE: A supplementaryr Mr. Speaker. The Pra~ier said they were going to, and I can use his exact 'NOrds, "examine the consensus," and I was 'NOndering whether or not the structure that was put in place to promote the seal hunt and to defend the seal hunt has been disbanded, you know,the bureaucratic structure,and whether or ~ot there is a committee within gove~nment examining what is happening to the seal hunt throughout the 'NO!:ld? :-1R. SPEAKER: ??EMTER ?ECKFORD: The hen. the oremier.

No. There is no special committee. It is just being done by the Departnent of ?isheries and bv the other interested people in governmen~. But the~e is none, ~here i~ no 5~ecial commit~ee. ~~ere is no amoun~ of ~oney dir~c~ed speci=ically at exa~inina chat. We do our ongoing sur·..,-e~r vf wor!.d ne'N'S bf course through t~e Leqislative Li~rary .3.nd I -:re-t: that all t:,e time as d0 the :ninisters in the aove~nment,sa :hat we have a :air idea ~ust what the ·Norld ki!ld of oress is sayi!la about it, lJU'C there is :10 s~ec:..a.l tea!TI .• s-oeci.:.l amount of monev ac-olicd ::o chat ""-crht :lOW.

T4e :::.re do ir.a i-c in ':~8 ::;arne •tJa.v, I cruess, the han. ::new.ber is, lisce!linc 3.nd ~eadir!a and seeinq- ·...rhat t:,.l2! feelina is. Of c:Jurse 1 also in -:al.~ir.q ::.o the iJer'ar":Mt:!nt of ::::c:e!.""!1a.l A.ffai!:'s in 01:ta•..va, I:1dustr:,r, 'I'~:tde 3-rtd Corr.rne.r:::e a!'lc!. "::-.e le?2.~·~~.er.~ of :2i.sher-2.es itself ther-:. ~ ... .-i':.~ the various connec-:.i.ons t!:.a:: ::i:e~~- ~avs a~cur.d ":he ·.vor .:..a. :~P.. 2"i'E.\...'<ZP: 'I'b.e ::.on. ~eT;~ber for r~rir.dsor-~uchans. ~? .• :~TGS~: '"=.

Spea}:er, my question is for ':~e '-1i.:1i.s-:::e~ of !'lines and 2T!e~qy (Mr. 3ar~·ri and of :::ourse he is arN·are T am aski.r:.a the ~es-cion having access to .;. Y!inisterial State!nen"C -::tc..t ':l.e is ~~oing ;:o prese!'lt shortly and I ~l'lill obviausl~l :,e ~espondinq ::a t:'l.e ~1i.:..isc~::-ial Statemer..t4 SOt.S C:CN. Yf'EY!:SE~.s: '::'h, oh~ ~'<.. Ji\14IESON: ;l.sk: a question befor~ we 0ec ::~e SE3.C2!llent! ,-. ..., .., U I J

/".arch 1<: , l ~80 Tape 'lo. 39t NM - 2 !'.R . 9A;!.RY : Well, I :;~ean i; chis is t-h e pracuce, ·~ will just have to rise to the occasion. :-!:R. FLIGP.T: :-t.~ . S?!:i\l<E:~ (Sinnsl : ~ow ~:he au.nister hac bet:cer be ca re:': ul . Order, ;>lease: r: ~e hon. member has ~ questlon, r woul<i cirect: him c:o ask his cu est!.on. vq . :t.IGET: ~. Speaker~ t~e ~~ nisterial S cace~enc indicates cha t: the company came in t:o - so ~w EON. ~!EMBERS: ~. ::lCBER'!'S : MR. SP~R: :-!:R . ~BER':'S: le: ::te - XR. 3?S\!c::R: ~lR . :109ER1'S : XR . S?~l\.:C::!<: :e. ?.CBER':!'S: ')h , oh! !-1r.

Speaker - Ord er, please! - ~Ne Co ~ave ~ proceCure , if :ny :r ie~C. ·A' .ill A ?Oint: o: orde r: Yes, i~ :.s a. ?01:\t ~f orCer,: =uess. ~he ~on . ~emhe= =or ~~e St~~ic ~= 2el:~ :s~~. :t :s 3 ?0~~~ of :e ~~e~ orte:. ~he ~r~Olem ~.as =~t:\ e .lbouc bec ause ~he :n.i.:~!ste::- f.nadve ::-:~~ 1 '? :te'= lec:;C ::.o :ta..:C.e e::e st:..a-::al!\enc ~~ =~e :.it::e !':': cug:,c ~o "lave ::naCe i-:. ~ow ·..re 1'--..ave ;J.v~:\ ~!. .::'l :~a ,~ -:o :r.ake _ ~ .! ~ :~ e -:!:::~ :>: ""cesc:e-o., ,~!':._cC.

L~ =e s~nse ::. !'\;.s ::-~~..;es:. 'Jow ?e ::::ta.os ;o~h a~ h>e c~u:c :o is 1= .,e ~oulC :~·;e :~ av'! -;,o ~a ·~~ ny !ten. ::: i~~c :~ o m \·li::.C.sor -?llC~a:H! -~ .. r. :t.:.~hc} as ;; :!-"e 3a=te =::es::!.cn :!.=-=~~ -:he stac~me!"\t. . T~e t11.!:1!s~e !" :saiC :"es~e .:":ay he ·~ ~o~n~ :'? :re:<~ a 3:3:e~'!~t :oday. ~:: .. :n~~Y: ~0 ~=~~:~~ :~~2 . :::?.. ?G!lE~S· ~k3!-'. ;hat is ~r.a~ :...:e •·!. :._: -::o ~~I!!'L -~e~ ~·: ~on . ::-!.e :-tC :3c: s:::.l t ~av~ :t.:.s C'.les::~or: a~C f:g C 3~ a:sk 3::'1!:- ::Oe sca-;~~e~c !nC ~e w~lt :o on !roe :~a~~ ~~ :~e :~gh~ ~y. ~ow :s :~~~? ~!.~ .

Si"~A:<:::~: ~l? . ::. ICh"'!: .:>~ -:hat. ;e:.n: - :~ . :.?:JI.PR: X.l:tCso~ -3cc~ar:s . !~ cha:: agreed: ~~ . Spe3~er, re:ore an aqr9e menc i~ ~de 7o -:!':e ;oi::t ~= c:.=g_:- , :::e ~or.:. '!.e:-.be:- :e:: 1 G 1 4

)!a~c?l !~, 1980 Tage ::o. 3H l<t·l - J :·8. . :!.::.G;rr : :-t~ ·.. Speake .::.- - :·L'< . :msEaT S: :-ou ~ r e goi:lq :o cis aqree- •,Jith :ne ,coo, .'!r.e you-? It: is 3. bad wee-k. . -.-.... "· ?t!YaT : Xo ~sag = gem e n~, it i3 a poin~ of clari =!cation . ~tt . Sp e ak~ = . A =uling has ~ee ~ maCe ~n chis ~ouse ~~at t~e membe: on ~his side !nswe---inq a ~tinist.e =ia.l Stacemen'C g-ees half ":he ti:ne . Vow ! · ... ·i.ll :-~c :or.cede :ny righ t. in :.;ue st.!.on ?cso:icC. •J.n1ess !" am givgn :::te unCe rs t.an -=i~g =ha~ a=~~ ! :i~ish my - ~B.. ?.OSE:<!:TS: We r.ave se: U?

Eor t~ac . ~.!{ . ?!,.!:;aT: - reac-:: .:.0:1 or l\Y ~t.atemcnt co t1le mi:1iste:- t~a~ : ~h~~ ge= =~e ~ igh~ :o 3.sk a ~escion. ;~ .. ?.OSERTS: You ~et c~e righc to ask a quest~on . !-t?. . .. :<o~;c: ' _rAe ~s ~ ~ghc. ~~a" ls ~i~ h ~ . ~~. ROODE~: ~r~ :~~ 3up:leme~car~es. ){?.

F!..IG::!T: Md. t:'NC su;>;:-le:ne:1taries. '-t?. . 5?~~~a 1 5i~ s ) : ~ c~~ ~oi:1: o: orcie~. ! ?~~haps 5houl d ;o·.::-1:: Jjl.ll: ::.:-s~ a.!..l c!:at : ~a·Je ~ot ~skec hor. . ;ne:nbe=-s to my !'ig!-1 -:: !'t.a•le ~-ranted leave_ said ~...te:..::d :5o =ha.: :::ie er..d of ·~'.lest'!:Jr. ?~::icC, so :.~en we Ni~ ~ve to ·.-ra .:..:. -anC see •Jh e:: :te r -:)~ ~ot. leavs ·,,r£.1.1 ~-e ;-::a:1teC ~o ~!low ~~e ~~i:ti3 -::9:.:.al. :S-:.a:e:n2:v: :c ~e .? ~$ zan -:.: -ci .. :rt? .. :!..z ~-;~-r : h, ~·~s . :1~ . 5?::::_~~: -rr:e.=e:C::r~, ·~1i-:.h .!~out: .::.:c m!::t.:::es :~:: .!.:: ~-uest.lcr:: ?!<r:cc., i: ::=:e ~en.

J\ei"l:-'!:" =~= "·li:;ds~~ -31-!c::a:-ts :: ·~:!'. ~1~::~:. } --:;c a -:=t.:es~.lon .: ~ou l~ ::::-c..- 1-.. i:n ::he ~or-o:----=~~11:".! :.o ~s !<. : -:J:ue s::ic:-. :-s. C'C3::~'!S; 3.c;: :1ot on 3 :--:~!s~~:-:.:!: ,1 s::.a~e~en:: ''"::-3l':am' . ~~- S?::~::z::t: 3ut ·.o~h~n :.·"'l:::! ·~ :.::.:.s: -2r~l 1u=;:ne...""t: ::~e ~cmes ,·~'= ·.,ri.:l. ~-:.3·~-g ::.o aG...~e::-: -:.::: ~:::e .:·:n:-:-~e= :-·.!: ::1:s ~~:. :-:.ave 1-o;,:en ~i·. ·~~ L:: ':!:.e ?as c. ~~th~:""~ you :ta~~ ~a..?.: ~te -:i:i e :c res?onC .. '!'!'!e :1on. :nerl'.ber ::lr '-'1.-:~cscr-Sl.!c:,an;,: _ 1 0 1 5

~!arch 14, 1980 Ta9e :-Jo. 391 NM - 4 !!R. ?LIGH':': Mr. Speaker, my question to the ministe.!:' is simply this; after fifty years of 09eration in 3uc~ans, ~nd having carried out extensive exploration programmes over t~ose years, has it :>ee!1 the prac1:ice of ASARCO to come ~o the minister and have a meeting and advise hi~ on any exploration ?rogra~~cs t~at they have had i~ thei~ :nind ::: ... is past fi£-ty years? 1 G 1 6

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1-!arch 14,1980 Tape No. 392 AH-2 XR.SPEAKER (Simms) The hon. member for LaPoile . We have time for about a ten second question. 0\R.NEARY: Thank you, Sir.

Well, in vie•" of the Premier's speech that we have in front of us that he is going to make today, Sir, and you cannot read your speeches i~ this House, I would like to ask the hoc. gentleman what the government is doing on the regulations to compel West Ger~an companies that are in here with offshore servicing, ships, boats,that are servicing these offshore rigs, what he is doing to have these boats placed under Canadian registration and Canadian boats used with crews of Newfoundlanders on these boats? What is the han. gentleman doing about that situation? 0\R.SP:SAKE~: The hen. Premier . PRE~IER PECKFORD: ~r.

Speaker, we are most co~cerned because there sre no boats available in Newfoundland, a~d not that many in Canada that are involved in ~he servicing of the oil !:igs, but we are mere concerned about t.he Newfoundlanders that are going to get jobs on-those boats and.,'as is our practi~eJ where t~ere is a Newfoundlander who is qualieied for the job the companies will ~e bound ~o h~re the Mewfoundlande~ first. :£ ~hera is not a New=oundlande~ or ~abcadorian avail~ble to :!o tha.r: job and tha:: can be shc fN·n, -tha~ they =..:::-e noc, t.:,en of course they can go outside. 3ut in t~e first instance Newfou~dlanders and Labradorians ~ust be hir ed and ~e ~ill conti~~e ~o ~~force che regula~ions that a~2 i~ place to ensure ~ha~ ~hat ha??ens. ·~ R. 5?£;;.:~.:::?..; Orde!.", ?lease! '!hc:: time :or the Oral Question ~eriorl has ex?ired.

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J) M=ch 14, 1980 Tape 393 EC - 1 MR. L. BARRY: I want to stress that the underground work is for exploration purposes only. There has been no decision yet to mine the Tulks deposits. Driving the adit ~ will erul.ble the comp~ies to obtain information on mining ' conditions in that particular ground,and also - and this is very important, Mr. Speaker,-to obtain a 100 to 200 ton bulk sample for ~etalurgical testing. The sample will be subjected to various tests during the 1980 - 1981 Winter season to determine how much of the metals present can be recovered.

And I might say that until tl'lese 111etalurgical tests are carried out, neither the company nor government knows whether the mining of the TulkS deposits can be •riable. Onder the best of circumstances, Mining of the Tulks deposits will probably be only marginally viable. However, it is the company's hope that ore from these deposits will provide the means of maintaining operations at the Buchans mill for a few more years while exploration in the general area continues. However, much will depend on metal prices.

Continued high metal prices, especially precious metals, will be necessary, as indeed they have been a crucial fac~or in continued operations of ~~e Mac~ean mine . At present it is anticipated the MacLean mine will be able to continue operations during the Winter of 1980 - 1981, and this is because of ~~e high metal prices. over that period the tests will be carried out on the Tul~ deposit ar1d it is hoped, Mr.

Speaker, that if ~~ese tests go fa•<ou:::a!:>le and I have to stress, 'if' they go fa•rourably - ~~en in the Spring of 1981, we should be able to indicate further what ~~e potential for develop~e~~ of these de?osits will be. And at best, if it is viable to mine them, you are speaking about a possible four to seven year life extension of t~e Buchans mininq operations. 'If' - and I underline 'if' - and it would be cruel, ~I.

Speaker, cruel, cruel, cruel, not ~o stress the 'if' in this equation for ~e people a~ Buchans - 1 i! 1 the tes~s go properly, ~~e~ there is the hope and the possibility that there will be an extension of the life of the auchans mining operations. SOME HON. M&".BERS : Hear 1 hea:!' ! MR. SPEAKER (Simms} : The hon. the member for Windsor - Bucr~ns. 1 G 2 0

l'larch 14, 1980 Tape 393 EC - 2 M..'<.. G. FLIGHT: Mr. Speaker, I thank the minister fer his statement and I want to say that I ~~nk that what is contained in his statement augurs well for the people of Buchans if all the things ~~t are possible come of this exploration. Now, Mr. Speaker, I simply want to say that two days ago, the people of Buchans were living under the pendi~g shut-dawn of a mine in August . The u.~ion had ~een told there would be no more negotiations.

They had negotiated their last work agreement, sixcy-six ~n had been laid off, all young men who grew up in Buchans who are now anywhere from Lynn Lake to the Br itish Empire - all over ~~e world - sixty-six ~n. so, Mr. Speaker, r want to say that: even with all the 'ifs' the minister has referred to, I would ra~~er stand here and be accused of raising the expectations of t.":e people of Buchans than stand in Buchans and be accused of carrying on t.~e kine of dog-in-the­ ~ger, close-mouthed attitude that bocb companies involved in t.~at operation for the past fifty years have carried on. Mr.

Speaker, thare are times it can be said that it has been carried on with the understanding and the co-operation of the ~inister. And, Mr . Speaker, if my association, if any~~ng t.":at I have said, has raised expectations, I am prepare d to say t."lat the action of t."le company and sometimes of this government has be en totally and completely demoralizing to the people of Buchan=. MR. S. NEARY: i::iear, hear! MR. G. E'!.!G~T: ~d I would rather ra ise ~xpec~acio n s than demoralize people. Now, Mr.

Speaker, just ancther couple of \lt'Crds , if you would, Sir. 'rhis st.atement is more noteworthy ior •.-.·hat i ~ does not say t..~an 'ollhac it cioes say. The fac't. is, as I ~ieci -:o alluCe tc in my question, never before, not for ~~e past seven years - and ~~e mi~ister knows it - have ever ASARCO or Abitibi Price :orne in tc talk spe:ific all y ~out exploration . They nave spent bill ions of dollars in exploratio n. Mr. Speaker, furt.~ermore, the minister kno~s - SOME HON. i-iE~ERS : Oh, on! XR. W • 1-t.l\.'tS.."iALi. : The hon. gentleman is getting into cieba~a . 1 0 2 1

l".arc..>t H , 1980 !m. SPEAKER (Simms l : SOME HON. ·. MEMBERS : MR. L. BAlUcr: MR. SP~R: MR. L. BARRY: Tape 393 :e:c - 3 Order, please! I was about to call the hen. member to - Oh, oh! On a. point of persc:mal privilege. On a point of personal privilege. On a point of personal privilege, the hon. member is s;aying that I ltave misled this HolilSe. I just finished sta:ting that I have had meetings with these cmupanies concerning their 022

:-larch 14- 1980 MR. L. BARRY: from between 1972 and 1975. Tape No. 394 DW - l since July of this year apart Now I will ask the hon. gentle- man to withdraw the statement that he just made. liR. G. cL!GH ":' : Mr. Speaker, I withdraw any statement that the minister finds offensive. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): ! understand ~~at the hon. member has withdrawn any statements 1 and that disposes o£ the matter. The hen. aember for Windsor - Buchans has about one minute left. MR . G. FLIGET: Mr. Speaker, let me say I would like for the minister to have included in his statement exactly what took place in that meeting.

I would like for him to tell the House whether or not-in his statement-that ASARCO had cdme in and talked about the possibility of actually mining that area and what would be entailed and '"hether or not ·there would be assistance from the government of this Province in providing ~cce~s roads and bridges to the construction sites. Now why did the minister not include that particular thing which is of all importance to t~e people of Buchans as to whether they are going to get ~hat kind of co-operation for . from this government~ Ma • .9ARRY: (Inaudible) Jo!R. G.:'LIGHT: ~hat tOGi Mr.

Speake:::, should have bee~ part of c~is ministerial statement and it was part of the discussion. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Thank you. Hear, hea:; 1G23

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 391 DW - 2 PRESENTING REPORTS B"i STANDING AND SPECIAL COMMITTEES ~R. SPEAKER (simms): The bon. Minister of Justice. MR. G. OTTENHEIMER: I think this would be' the area where I would inform hon. members I had undertaken yesterday to table a copy of the poll referred to in the AUditor General's report. Apparently, there is only one in existe.nce which has been furnished to th.e RCMP and we have asked them to make a copy and send us the copy. MR. NEARY: (Inaudible) Well, maybe the han. gentle- man has one ~e can table it but I do not. that there is one and that one has gone.

I am only aware ~~R. s. NE~RY: How many members are on the Public Accounts Committee? MR. THOMS: :H . . 5. ~t:EJ\a.Y : at least five. AN S:ON. MEMBER: MR. SPEAKER: MR. G. OTTENHEIMER: a copy. AN RON. l<IE~BER: ~R. G. OTTENHEIMER: ')IR. S. NEARY: ~R~ G. OT ~E NEE~: ar ~ ge t ting ic co~ i ed . ~ :!. . S ? :::A K E 3.: They all have a copy. They all have a copy, that is No, they do not have a copy. Order, please! I anderstand they do not have They have one copy of the copy. They have a copy of the co~y. Well, get it copied, get it copied : That is what we are doing, we Or d er . ? l eas ~ ~ 1024

·-· --.:.....l. __ __ ,... -- ~--- March 14, 1980 '!'ape No. 394 ow - 3 ANSWERS TO QOEST~ONS FOR WHICH NOTICE RAS BEEN GIVEN MR. SPEAKER (Simms) !-IS. VERGE: The hon. Minister of Education. Mr. Speaker, as I undertook to do during Question Period yesterday in reply to questions raised by some hon. members, I wish to provide greater detail about education and training programmes and courses in place now and planned for next year to prepare the Province's people to par~icipate in jobs generated ~hrough offshore resource exploration and related activities. The College of Fisheries in St .

John's now offers a series of short courses entitled Oil Spill Countermeasures ~raining, which are paid for by the oil companies themselves. !n addition, the Fisheries College has increased its training of crews, deck hands, mates, enqineers and captains for supply vessels and of=shore rigs. ~t the present ti~e the college is training 130 such people where nor~ally the number would be fifty or f•wer. Special programmes are also offered for cooks to se=ve on the oil rigs.

The college has also designed a special programme called Marine Emergency Duties T=ai~ing,primarily for pecple associated with supply ships and oil and qas ri~s. ~~es-: programmes are fund~d ~y CanaCa Emoloyment in the norillal ·Nay. Also~ the :::ducation De?a!"~!"!'lent., including the administration of the vocational schools, six- teen or seventeen throughoo~ the Province and the three colleges _the College of ?isheries, the College o: Trades and Technolog7,~0th in St. John's and the Bay St .

George Community College·are pla~ning a series of new programmes and some extensions or• re11isions -=o its existing ones :.::> meet t~e needs of offshore oil development. I am lis~in9 a nu~ber of new or revised programmes in the plann~n~ stages f~= che ~ext school yea~ starting Septembe= 1930. 1 [J 2 5

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 394 ow - 4 liS. t. 'l·ERG E: First, the district vocational school in Gander is gearing up for a Helicopter Maintenance Programme and,secondly, a revision and modification of its electronics programmes to adapt them to the needs of off- shore activities. The Bay St. George Community College is planning an Oil Drilling programme for next September. The College of Trades and Technology is planning for s~veral course.

Hydrographic Surveying Technology, expanded Civil Engineering Techology leading into petroleum industry tech­ nology, Electrical Techaology, and Computer Data Entry Operator training and Computer Studies and Accounting Technology. Lastly, the Fisheries College is planning about nine courses,specficallyr !irst Expansion and Modification of Electronics Technology pro­ grammes, Helicopter Crash survivor Training Commericial Diving, revision of the Electronics and Communications. 1026

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 395 SD - l MS. L. VERGE: programmes, offshore survivor training, marine firefighting, inflatable life raft training, rig rescue, boat training and oil pollution. SOME HON. MEMBER: ~R. SPEAKER (Simms): Affairs and Environment. MRS. H. NEWHOOK: Thank you. Hear, hear. The hon. ~nister of Consumer Yes, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for LaPoile (Mr. S. Neary) raised a matter in the House as to whether or not a company known as Cheque Alert was violating any of the credit information laws of t.'lis Province.

I wish to inform the House that we have received a legal opinion from the Department of Justice to the effect that ~'lis type of operation falls under the jurisdiction of our Credit Reporting Agencies Act. And I wish to further inform. this Hause that Cheque Alert is registered under the Credit Reporting Agencies Act and, of course, consumers will be protected under the provisions of this." Act.

For the iaformation of the House, I would further advise t.~at companies registered under the C=edit Reporting Agencies Act are only pe~itted to retain information in their files as it relates to bad debts far a period of six years. MR. S. NEA!<.Y: breaking the law. AN HON. MEMBER : MRS , H. NE'10"HOOK: So,in other words, they are Six years. Yes. Well, I do not know if they are actually doing that but they did say that this could be done so whether, you know, this particular agency has actually done it we really do not know as yet.

And further, that apon receiving information of payment of such debts ,they must immediately rectify their records and make furt.'ler reports given on t.~at person - any reports given on that particular person must be rectified, any information already sent out 1 they have to send aut a rectified statement. 1 0 2 7

March 14, 1980 MR. S • NEARY : the law. lffiS • H. !JEWHOOK: operating outside of the law. !!IR. S • NEARY : !o!R. SPEAKER (Simms ) : !o!RS. H. NEWHOOK: Tape No. 395 SD - 2 So they are operating outside of No, I would not say that they are Wall, they have information­ Order, please! The hon. minister. I think that was a television programme and I did see part of it but not all and I thought they were showing what they could do but not actually that they had that information already.

They <orere probably reporting on how it worl:s in other parts of Canada because th~s~ Cheque ~lert agencies are all over Canada and they are registered under - !o!R. S • NEARY : they are all over Canada. MRS • H. NEWEOOK: That does not make them legal because No, I am not saying that. And I would further inform ~he House ~~at the Credit Reporting Agencies Act will be reviewed i~ ~~e very near future in favour of a new Consumers Reporting Agencies .~t which is much broader in scope and will describe how personal information is to be compiled and will give fur~~er protection to ~~e consumer.

The matter of ~mploying Social Insurance Numbers as a means of identifying individuals who have issued NSF cheques has raised concerns respecting the invas~on of privacy a.'ld I wish to inform the House that the Government of Canada has recently initiated a study with respect to t~e ~e of Social Insurance Numbers and the impli~ation of such use for the privacy of individuals.

The Pri ·racy Commissioner has been in touch with our government respecting the us~ of Social Insurance Numbers and ·~ shall await the outcome of this study to determine whether or not changes should be made or restraints imposed upon the existing consumer prctection legislation. 1 u 2 8

March 14, l.980 MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) MR. T. LOSH: Tape No. l95 SD - 3 PRESEN'riNG PETITIONS The han. member for Te=a Nova. Mr. Speaker, I bel; leave to present a petition on behalf of 278 residents of st. Brendan's, a substantial petition, Mr. speaker, f:rom that area,of 2-78 residents which represents 1G 29

:larch 14, 1980 Tape No. 396 NM - l ~R. T. LUSH: about ninety-seven per cent of the voters in that area which shows tPe importance to these people of this particular petition. And, Mr. Speaker, it should be no surprise to han. members to know that it relates to the ferry service that operates between Burnside and st. Brendan's, and let me read the petition first, ·11r. Speaker. It says, "To the han. House of Assemr.ly, the petition of •.ve, the tmdersigned, being residents and electors of St.

Brendan's in the provincial district of Terra ~ova, humbly -:lemonstrate that we protest in the strongest t=>Ossible tems the complete inadequacy of the present ferry beat to ~eet the needs of St. Brendan's and that of other people who use the ferry.

"We therefore request the provincial government to allocate in this fiscal year sufficient monies for the ?Urchase and operation of a larger and more adequate ferry boat and that the ferry ~e requested to make two round trips per day, weather permitting~ this arrangement to !."emain in effect '..lntil ice and \-linter weather =onditions prevent same. .~.d your petitione~s as in duty bound ~·.till '::!ver pray.

" That is the :;>etition, ~"~- Speaker, askinc in essence ~wo things: (~) for a new, larqer and improved terry svstem, ~nC,secondly, once t~at is done, chat the ferrj ~e reauired to make ~wo ~Yi~s every day ~er ~eek. ~r. S?eaker, ::..n support of the petition may I say t~at t~e pe~ition certa inly.I t~ink,probably aces ~ot do justic~ almost to the complete inadeauacy of t~is present fer=y syste~. I am net sur~ that there are wor:is +:v describe the ::omplete inadeauacy oi chis ~articular system, and ~. Speaker, that is to say nothinq abo~t the 09er~tors.

First 1 when that :erry system was put the~e it was an improve~ent :>ver- yrhat w·as al!:'ead~ ... ~he'!':"e. It could carry ~hree cars and the one ?rior co that could not carry any vehicles at all. ~ut of course i~ is so ouLdated, and in view of the fact that ~he federal governm-=nt have spent I think upwards to ;>500,000 in upgrading che terminals. 1G30

~!arch l:t, 1990 Tap e ~:o. 396 NM - 2 ~ot.q,. ~. ::;sa: ch at some~ hi ~g shoulci be ~one about :~e :e:~y :ecause :~e 9resen: :e~:y ~at jusc ~oes noc f~t Li ~ic~ che ne•.o~ :e=inals cr.ac are there. so U."'lless we gee a ne ·,r :er:-:y ::.Oac che re 1 th e ~ney spent by the federal ~ove~ent is aoing co ~e a complet~ was1:e. The ne~ te rminals are desi gn ed :or stern loading, which ·,rill enable che operators to load more effec~ive ly . So right now these te:minals are just about useless unles s Ne get a new ferry.

And I understand, ~- Speake r, that the oper ac ors of che presen~ ferry t~ere, an xio us to improve the :e rr y se~ice, r.ave mad e a pro.;x>sal :o t~e :tinister of Transpor::ation a.nc! Cow.munications (~ ~- srett l, in hopes o: ge tting a new :erry ::.Oat ~~ere or. the service ::hi s vea.:: . And r underst:and t:hac he has qot: an excs l!em ; !x>at in ~"1d ::-:at has been looke-:! at by exoert:s :..n ~leW:oundla."1d and ! have been =a!!ed by these peop:e, people :rom :he Shi? Own ers As soci a.c~ on, ~o :hL~~ it: is an excellent: :erry. is also CSI ins? ec:ed.

You '-'Ould not: have :o wasce money on i: ~n ;et: ing l:: U?qradee as was :he case in =ne =a: ·:y on :.i.ct:le 3ay :slands.

So. ~- S;>eake -:, :.~ !.s 3. ~ =~3- c. o~por--:tJ.n!.:·.· a:'l£i i! =hat: boat !.s ::OC :oct~n rNit hin :~'! :1ert :::·ouple 0= C\Or.C _hS t;,en •;te ~ul: lose an e~cellenc se~ti~e :or St. 3re ~Can 's. 3cc :~ ~s :ont~n~er.c upon t~ e approval ,o E =ourse,c= t~e ?roposal ~~~t t~e oce ratc r ~ ~~ in, which ~san e~cellent ?roposal , and ~ - speake r, : hope :hat the mi nls~er ~Lll se~ fie co :evie~ :hat ?ro?Osal . !t is a ve~y res sonaCle ~rocosal, ar.C ~o seg :o ic :ha: the ~pl~ o: S~. 3rendan's 2r2 cive~ a ~e~:e~ =e~ f s~~ice. ~re :e~y service ~cw, Si~ . !: ~or :i~ ~~ pc ~ cac:le ~n, :Csol~c~ly ~idi~u:ou s. ~: ". !".CCP2S : ':'hac is :-1.~ 0~. '-!?.. -:. :~5~: ~on. ~~=~s NE:e =~ sc~ ~~~= : 3c s--..l.!"e ::tey ~ulC .1.qree :=-:ac i: :..; !"l.OC :he ~L!id o! :::Oat ::::ac !-.U!!la.~ b...;!nc:s s::oul.C. :-tave ~o ::-a vel on . :{:'.

Soea .. <~-=-. :.:. .:.s ~he o:--.1 ":' way :o: ~~ese ?eo?le :o qee oE : :~o~ che :s:and dnC :: ~s ~ - 1L31

:-1arch 14, 1980 '!'ape ~To. 396 N~ 1-3 o!R. S?£.;..'Q:R ( S !!'~IS ) O!:'der~ ?lease! ~he han. ~ember's time has expi::-ed. '!R. LUSH: \-!ell, Mr. speaker, I sup]Jcrt: tC!e petition and - SOHE HON. :-!E:·"BERS : By leave. !1R. S?£.:u<:ER: By leave. '!R. LUS?.: - ask to have ~t 9laced upon the cable of the ~ouse and refer~ed to the department to which it relates. SOMS ~ON. ~~BERS: :1R. NEARY: Hear, hear~ '!r. Speaker. ~ -· "'2 I LJ j

March 14, 1980 SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER: (Simms) : MR. S. NEARY: Tape No.397 EL - l Hear, hear! The hen. the Member for L&Poile. Mr. Speaker, I rise to support the petition so &bly presented by my hon. colleague on behalf of his constituents in St. Brendan's there who are forced through geography, through no fault of their own, =!creed into isolation and have to use the services of the ferry to get out of St. Brendan's. Having been born and raised on an island and knowing so much about the problems of tr~sportation, Sir, I c:an sympathize with the people in St.

Br~ndan' s and the hon. m.eml::ier who is pushing for improved ferry service for that community. The government seems to have mace a shambles, Mr. Speaker, along with a good many other things ,they 9eem to have made a shambles out of in recent years of the intra- provincial ferry services in this !'rovince. Somehow or other the government has allowed the government of Canada of! the hook,to buy their way out of - MR. MARSHALL: Mr. Speaker, a point of order. MR. SPEAKER:(SIMMS) A point of order, ~~e hon.the President of the Council. MR. w. MA . .'\SHALL: It is a petition, l'!r. Speaker, from the people of St.

Brendan's with respect to their o~ specific ferr; service. The hen. gentleman now is getting into the realm of debate when he is obviously introducing matters pertaining to the e~tire ferry service in the Island, the Canadian Goverr~ent etc. MR. SPEAKER (S~ms): To the point of crder,the hen. the Member for the Strait of Belle Isle. MR. E. ROBEF.TS : Thank you, l'!r.

Speaker.MY hen. frie::1d from LaPoile is certainly speaking of ferry services in general b~t he is not debating,point one;and point two 1 it is surely appropriate, in fact nothing could be more appropriate than in speaking in behalf of a petition or in support of a petition for an improvement in ferry 1 G 3 3

Mu-ch 14, 1980 Tape NO. 397 EL - 2 MR. E. ROBERTS: services in one area to speak of ferry services in general. That is che very essence of the way in which- one of the legitimate ways, proper ways i~which one can support a petitian. The ferry service in St, Brendan's cannot be reqarded in isolation. It should net be regarded in isolation. The ferry service in St. Brendan's has to be regarded as being one of a group of intra- as opposed to inter-provincial ferry services being offered in this Province.

I suggest that what my hon. friend from LaPcile district is saying is quite in order and he should be allowed to conclude his remarks. He is not debating, Sir. If he were to debate that, of course, would be out of order. But all he is doing is supporting tll.e petition in his own inimitable but effective style. AN • HON • MEMBER: Hear, hear! M..l:{.

SPEAKER (Simms): To the point of order, I would bring to the attention of hon. me!llbers Standing Ord.er No. 92, which is quite clear and says that any member ~peaking in favor of a petition should confine himself to the statement of the parties from whom it comes,. the number of signatures attached and ~e material allegations it contains. ~d there shall be no debate on a petition. I suspect that maybe the hon. the Member for LaPoile was beginning to drift into the realm of debate and ask him to confine his remarks to the petition as presented. l'IR.

S • NEARY : ! am SUJ::e that the aeo-ol~ wh~ c:i~"'!...t_ this petition are aware, !U". Speaker, are very conscious of the fact L~at this government let the Government of Canada off t~e hook, that the government took over ~~e intra-provincial ferry services wi~~out any provision for improving ferries such as we see in, such as the one in St. Brendan•s~ Th~rei~ lies the problem, ~r. Sp~a~e=. Your Honor knows ~'>.at up to a year ago the Government of Canada had assumed the responsibility fer opere:ating these fer~ s~rvices here in the Province. Somehow or other, down through the years, the 1 0 3 4

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 397 EL - 3 MR. S. NEARY: previous govermnent that has been so lllUCh lllAligned, anaqed to persuade the Government of cana.da to iiSSilllle the responsibility for the- ferries that ~re operatinq within the Province, ,.lthouqh there is some doubt whether or not the govern­ llll!nt &LJCa.nada should have taken them over MR. 1i. MARSH~ MR. SPEAKER (Silllms) : of Council. MR. MARSHALL: A point of order, Mr. Speaker. A point of order, the hon. the President Mr.

Speaker, I mean,Your Honor has made a ruling touchinq on the remarks -de by the hon. qentleman before I got up on the fi:::st point of order. And it i~ my W1derstandinq that the point of order was sustained. And the lion. gentleman, is now aontinllinq, he is DOt addressing himself to the material al.legations of the petition from the peof.le of St. arendan 's. MR. SPEAKER (Si..mllls) : To the point of order, the hon. the Mea>ber for the Straits · of Belle Isle. ~. S. NEARY: you wastin'3' the time of the House; it is ridiculous. MR. SPEJIIXER (Simms) : Order, please! MR. E.

ROBERrS: Sir, I lllllSt prot ·est.I think the gentleman f:r::'OIII St. John's East (Mr. w.Marshall) is verging unto debate hiliiSelf when he says what his understanding is as to what a point of ord~~:r did. You ltnov, a point of order was raised and ·Your Honor made a ruling on it and the rulinq speakes for itself. 1G35

!olarch 14, 1980 Tape 398 EC - l MR. E. ROBERTS: hen. friend from LaPoile (Mr. S. Neary) 1 I would suggest, is trying to eomply with the ruling and I submit he is tieing it in his own effective but inimitable way. Your Honour, you know, my learned friend from St. John's East (Mr. w. Marshall) is attempting to penalize the gentleman from LaPoile for his style, for the very warp and woof of his substance as a speaker. My friend from LaPoile has been in this House - I do not know - longer t.'lan anybody else now • Is it not seventeen or eighteen years?

He has developed his own style, Sir, it is particular to him, and I submit he ought to be allowed to speak within the rules of the House as he is wit.~out being harassed by t.\e gentleman from St. John's East, who is exhibiting his own particular and peC'..lliar style, Sir. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : With respect to the point of order, I agree that the hon. the ~ember for LaPoile has his own style and I believe t.~at in this particular case, he may be drifting into the realm of debate. So he has about half a minute to conclude his commen~s. MR. 5. NEARY: Mr.

Speaker, 'oie .,..ere told when the ferry se:vice was taken over by t.~e Province t.\at t.~e Water Transport

section of the Oepart.~ent of Transport in Otta~a would move to Newfoundla~c . and my understanding is t.~ey have not yet moved here because of a policy, apparently, t.~at exists whereby the federal Department of Public ~arks are trying to force them into the basement of a building of one of t.,e buddies of t.,e a~nistration here that they do not .,..ant to go into. So t.~is matter of ~proving the fer=v service will never be brought abc u ~ the way ~~e government is approaching it ~ unless, Mr. SpeAker, the Premier moves to take action like he did in his own district in the case of I.ittle Bay Islands.

And u~t is the cnly way ~~at t.~e ?eOple in Sc. aarbe will get ~~eir Lmproved ferry. SOME nON. ~ERS : aear 1 h.ea:! MR. SP~R : Ord er, pleas e! ORDERS OF '!':02 CX! MR. W. 1-'..ARSHAl.L: Order l, Acici.ress in Re;:::ly. MR. SPE~H.: Order 1, Acidress in Reply. -:- ·~~ hon .. ~~e membe~ for Carbonea=. 1U36

March 14, 1980 Tape 398 EC - 2 SOME E:ON • MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. R. MOORES : Mr. Speaker, I am going to start off ~~is morning by saying that in the five years that I have been a member of the Liberal Party of Newfoundland, I can say without fear of contradiction that it has always been a policy of ~~is Party and a policy of its leadership to encourage and to promote individual opinion, whether these opinions differ with that of the Party or not. SOME HON • MEMBERS : Hear, hear! MR. R. MOORES : Perhaps of all the members on this side of the House - SOME HON • MEMBERS : Oh, oh! MR. R. MOORES: I ask, Mr.

Speaker, for no interjections, please. MR. SPEAKER (Simms) : Order, please! The hen. member has requested to be heard without interruption. MR. R. MOORES : In my five years, Mr. Speaker, some ?f the members on the other side will ~ell you ~~at I have not been one to interjec~ members of the House. AN HON. MEMBER: MR. SPEAXZR: MR. R. ~!OORES : indiscretion. (Inaudible). Order, please! I have neve= been guilty of ~ha~ Mr.

Speaker, for five years I havE: sat in ~~is Party and on many instances I, myself, have disag=eed with the leadership of ~~e Party and its policies on various issues facir.g ~~e people of Newfoundland. My colleague f~m Eaie Verte White Bay (~z. T. Rideout) yesterday, in a 7ery noble ar~ a ve=Y eloquent fasn~on, stood and submitted to this House his personal belief as to what the policy of this Party should be to~a=ds offshore ownership of ~esources, oil ar.C gas.

What I did not know, however, yeste~day afternoon, was tha~ ~~e government of this Province had been informed prier to the presen~acion of ~~at speech that it was to be made. 1 0 3 7

March 14 , 1980 ta pe l9 8 EC - 3 MR. R. MOO!<SS: My colleague from Baie Verte - White Bay (Mr. T. R.ideoatl in true sincerity 1 in the belief that what he was saying was right, stood in this Bouse, and in one of the best speeches I have ever heard 1 put that belief forward for the House to accept. The qeve.rnment of this Province knew in advanc:e, and like a bunch of clowns in a cirCI.lS, they stacked their benches and they beat on the desks , and they turned a sincere effot:t by a colleague of mine to a third-rate, cheap 1politica.l trick. MJt. ·SPEAKER (Simms): Order, please~ 1 Q 3 s

~larch 14,1980 Tape No. 399 AH-1 ~g.SP~AKER (Simms): I would ask t~e hon. gentleman to withdraw the cerminology, "cheap ?Olitical trick" and '' a bunch of clowns''. I find them to be unparliamentary and I believe we can do without those expressions. 1-!R. ~!OORES: Without reservation, Mr. Speaker, I withdraw. That was unparliamentary. MR.S?EAKER: MR. :!OORES: I thank the hon. gentleman . Mr.

Speaker, I have heard in ~his debate, government members scand in their seat and with faces like stone, serious, somber and sober, tell the people of Newfoundland and the members of this House,through the media or whatever, that all of us on this side of the House, every Liberal in this House and in ~his Province is a traitor to the cause of Newfoundland because we do not readily accept, without reservation,~e do not readily accept.without question, we do not readily accept without intellig~nt ~ebate,the selfish, gree~y stand of the government thac ownership must come at all costs.

And in order for =he governme~t o~ this Province to stuft its pockets, co set up i~s ~eritage fund, to isolate i~self f=om t~e federal govern~ent and from ~he people and ~roill the na~ion of Canada, thac ~e an chis Slde ~ave delibe=a~aly orches':!:'ac.~d orch~strated an anti-Newfo~ndland and an ~nci- Newfo~ndlande= policy toward oifshore oil and natur~l resources. fJ'I~ll, Mr.

Speake~. 1-=t me t:ll you something, that for: my part; and ! c~ink z speak net o~l? for the ~ibe~al ~embers in this Ho~se bu~ for ev~r7 memner in this House and every ?erson in Newfoundland,thac we a~e al~ ~ewfou~dlanders and we share a =ammon u~~versal ~heme that we wa~t Newfoundland to own ics offshore ~ighcs, we want Newfoundland to receiv~ the maximum benefits f~orn anything that 1S under ~~e wa~er ~nd we feel thac there are various methods by which a ?Overnment or ~ ?arty can go aCout ~~st ac~ieving i~. ~nd ~he Gavernmen= ~t New~oundla~d says that =he best way 1039

Ma :-c h 14 , 198 0 Tape NO. 399 A!1-2 :-!R . :-IOORES: of achi~ving t~is is outright almos~ i:ra~~onal con:~ontatioc ~ith our !ede=al authorities in O~ta~a. Well,le~ ~e po~nt out to the ?remier ,who 1s a unive:-si ~y graduate , albeit in an education degree, but nonet~eless an uni versity gradua :e, that of all the book s, of all the references that I have studiec in my university days on ~a~te=s of oationalism,:he=e is noe one aut~o : i:y ~~~he ~orld who has no~ :ejected as an i~cellecc~al disease an i=:a~!onal method of dea ling on diplomatic levels.

And ~he ?rem~er of ~his ?rovince is now enoouraging ,in the most blatant of ways , ~a~io~alis~ ~~ ~ts :a~es~ se~se, ~hac we ~us~ s ~ ~nd :or Yew~ocndla=d or we must fall ~ s contemptuous and treache:-ous people. Well ,let me po1n~ out to the Premier o~ ~h1s Prov1nce thac if hi scory is 3n example co ~im, i: he le~r~s ~e all =rom his~ory o~ i3 guided by cbe thinqs that ~ave oc:~:ed :r. ~h~ ?as~,c~en : ~a~~ r.~~ ~~ac ~=he ?ursues ~s ag q ~ess:vely a~c almos~ as ch~l~~s ~:y as he 1s 9:-esen~ly ;urs c:n ; ~hls ?~ovi~c~a!Lsm, c~is na~~onalism or fat: - SOME HON. ME~BE2S: S:tar, hea:! 1G40

!-tare~ 14 , 1980 MR. R. 1-!00RES: may not accept it. Tape !lo. 400 DW - 1 that the people of Newfoundland The people of Newfoundland, let me tell you something, proved in 1971 that they had reached th~ age of maturity that they had become educated enough to assess the policies of a government or the policies of parties that represent them in election. The people of Newfoundland are no longer ignorant, they can see through, sometimes, a de­ liberate murkiness, a deliberate muddying of the -waters by politicians who want to promote their own ends and their own aims.

And I say to you now that if the Premier of this Prov- ince want to go to the people and whether the people of this Province should be selfish and greedy or if they should stand as Canadians to promote this nation and to share in the good fortunes of this Province, while at the same time for twenty­ five years we have been living, we have been existing, we have been subsisting because of the good fortunes of the people of Ontario and British Columbia and the have Provinces of thi; nation, t.hen if you want to go to the people on that issue, :ny best advice to you is t·o be careful; you may not come back with thirty-three seats.

SOME nON. MEMBERS: !!ear, hear! MR. R. MOORE:S: One of the most debilitating things in our Canadian Confederation today is the attitude of certain Premier's in this na~ion, an attitude of collo­ quialism, of provincialism, where they want to promote the aims and objectives of their own Province versus those of our nation as a whole. This is a co-operative federalism a nation of ten provinces who have gathered together for the benefit of all of us, all people, rich and poor.

And now when the Province of Newfoundland is on the brink of be­ coming prosperous, of becoming a have province, the Premier of this Province want to say to the Opposition, 'If you share, you are a trai~or and if you do not stand with ~s, you are not a Newfoundlander'. Well, r say to you ~ r. 1 0 41

~arch 14, 1980 Tape No. 400 • EI> - 2 !:\R. R. MOORES: Premier, be careful bow you approach this very serious issue. My final warning to you is perhaps you should move outside the o~erpass. Per­ haps you should go out to the outports and ask the people or this Province just exactly - MR. S. NEARY: Get away from the St. John's vested interests and the offshore services crowd and the insurance ~ang. MR. SPEAKER (Simms): :-!R. R. !:\OORE"S: Order, please! But theEe is a more important issue, Mr.

Speaker, I do not have to stand here and defend my position as an independent, free-thinking member of this caucus, or as an"independent Newfoundlander as true and as blue as anyone or as true and as red as anyone. I think that my hon. colleague from Bellevue, the Leader of the Opposition, a renowned statesman in every sense of the word, has· encouraged and promoted as valiantly as I have seen any leader of our party, free will and free thinking on behalf of our members. SOME HON. MEMBERS: Hear, bear! 1-!R. P...

MOORE'S: I myself have, on occasion, and I say it here now publicly for the record, have chal­ lenged him in caucus meetings, and I have c~allenged senior members of this caucus as to their position on policies and I .•am glad to say that some of them have, even after hearing my objections, decided to modify their positions.

And I am saying now that I do not have to stand here and defend it with the Premier of this P~ovince who is about to give a speech, by the way, and I do not thank him for the fore-warning of his speech because I believe that the content of it reflec~s his limited intellect on this issue as it relates to party ·politics in this Province. ~OME RON. MEMBERS: Hear, hear~ 1 Q 4 2

)larch 14, 1980 Tape No. 400 EL - 3 )IR. R. MOORES: To accuse the Liberal Opposition in this P~ovince of an orchestrated, deliberate attempt to be anti Newfoundland, 1 G 4 3

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 401 so - l MR. R. MOORES: I would like to see you take that to the polls, Mr. Premier. I would like to see you take that to the polls in Carbonear, I grant you that much. Mr. Speaker, in 'Jt'f final. remarks I would lik.e to say that my position on offshore ownership resources, oil and gas~ is exactly the same as I believe it to be of my col­ leaques on this side of the House, that we are clec.:rly ,without question,Newfoundlanders who believe that the offshore resources now presently at issue in this Province is ours unequivocally. SOME !!ON. MEMBERS : Hear, hear. MR. R.

MOORES: The only thing ~~at I find most frustrating about this is how often do I have to say it. AN HON. !4E.'1BER: MR. R. MOORES : have to get up in this House - MR. S • NEARY: political _noli tics (inaudible) MR. R. MOORES : MR. S. l!EARY : MR. R. MOORES: ~IR. S. NE_!I.RY: politics. MR. R. 1'!00 RES : That is right. How often, Mr. Speaker, do ! So long as they want to play cheap - and say it - They do not want to _til> say that I - (inaudible) They are more interestec i~ - accept the argument of ~he P~mier of this Province, that it is our resource, we do own ~t ~~d L~ere is no question about that.

How often do I have to say that to make people believe that that is our stand? Su~ we are not going to give the Premier of ~s Province a blank che~ue to tear this count=Y apart,to make fools of us in Confederation, to go up wi~~ his boxing gloves on to talk to that little Frenchman, as he calls him - !'.R. 5. NEARY: No, that is not what he cslls him. He calls him worse than that. SOME !iON. ioiEMBE;~.S : Yes, worse than c..'-lat a 1 0 4 4

March 14, 1980 MR. R. ~RES: Tape No. 401 You do not fool - SD - 2 MR. S • NEARY: It would be unparliamentary for you to ~·~y it in the House. MR. R. MOORES : - you can not mislead and misdirect the Opposition of this Province in the execution of our responsibilities to the people. And we are askip.g you now to modify your approach, to sit down and talk to ~~ese people in Ottawa sensibly and seriously, not as a Newfoundlander versus the rest of Canada but as a canadian - SOME RON. ~ERS: Hear, hear MR.

R. !o!OORES : - who wants to share in the prosperity and the progress of this nation, as a Canadian who wants to share the wealth with the rest of canada who have been feeding and clothing us for the last twenty-five years. AN RON. !'!EMBER: Rear, hear. MR. R. MOOFES : I say to you, Mr. Premier, in all fairness as a politician in this Province who has proven that ! can be as astute as others in getting re-elected and increasing my majority by ten times, let me warn you, do not be too hasty in going to the people of the Province on ~~is selfish issue that you have been expounding. Thar~ you, ~z. Speaker.

SO~.E HON. ME~EFS: Hear, hear. ~R. SPEA.""<ER {Baird) : The hon. the Premier. SOME HON, MEMEEFS: Hear, hear. PREMIER PECXFORD: ~r.

Speaker, it is obvious that I once again would feel sorry that ~~ere is not more co-ordination on the other side of the House on this very \'ital issue and that it seems clear, regardless of what ! h&ve in ~y prepared speech here,that members of the Opposition, the Opposition generally, are going to t~ to take the approach, one -which I think you are doing a sad ~~ing for Newfoundlana- that we are being selfish; and two, that you are going to t~ to pit me as one Newfoundlancer against ~~e rest of Canada.

I would almost sit down again and not give the speech because of what : pe::-::eive on t.~e other side of the 1 0 4 5

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 401 so - 3 PREMn:R PECKFORD: House as being a deliberate attempt to try to depict a picture of me personally, and do not say that you are not tryinq to do it because you are f%0111 tlut speech that wu just qiven 1 o£ somahow being selfish and un-Canadian and, more important than that, you are using that politically now that the way out of your dill!lllllla, your delimlna of principle, which I acknowledge - and e~rybody has his dilelllll8 of principle -to try then to politic ally picture that into me being some wide-eyed, wild- eyed, insane,half-crazy individual·who is only interested in attack for the sake of attack, thae is number one; which I think you are doinc; a disservice to this House and to yourselves - forget me.

And then secoridl.y, to try to paint a selfish, hoarc;l.inq individual or government. 1046

!-!a!:"ch 14, 1980 '!'ape ~o. 402 NM- 1 ?!tE;o•-r<":t ?=:c:.a-oRD' An<! I will say, :1=. Speaker - ar:d I hope : :tave ::!le unanimous c:onsenc ?: :his Eouse to =-ead ~his s;>eech; :...= ! ~o noc Z do not ~~tend co; I w~ jusc ~~~e ic - r will go around ~~is ?rovince everywhe!:"e co reruce those principl es , ~ec aus e th ey are coo iopor~anc. And if ~on . membe rs want to persi st in :~ac approach ~~ will have an eleccion , and we ~! have it a lot soone!:" than you c~:1.1< 1 ~ause chis is more imporcant.

SO.'!E: HON. )tEHBE!'.S: Hear , hear : ? ~ ~:t ?SC!C?O!W: And if the placfor.n wants to ~e - and I wi!l allow -:;he opposition to pre sene che platfonn - ~= the ?Li!.c ::orm ATant:s ~o ~e ~~ac :he :eade:- ::>f the -;overnment :>f t!'lis ?:"ovince :.~ a 5elfish L~civicual, a~d that the Laade !:" of ~e Gove~~t of this ?rov~~ce is a ?erson who is only out :or some w~ld pe rsonal ambi:lon o= :.:..s ,=:t~n •Je ·..,ill see e~ey ~ave ~l=!aCy ~ke~ once ~n ~~~gs ~esc 35 ~po~anc, ~n plar~s , ~oc e7~n a ?ear aeo, anC :~e? ~ill s~ea~ agai~ . 3ct 2c~e unporcanc :~an :hat, ~ecause it is ~oc one, ~nd : am sor=Y :ne "'e~er :or Car~near r~x.

Xoo resl perc e ~v:s i: as c~ac 1 ~: ~s no: ~n~ e: ~e~:~q el~=~~d o ~ ~o~ ;ec~~~ ~l~ted . ! ~o ~o~ oi~ci about !>ein~ elec'":eC o:- :'\OC. beinq elec::~C. !1V ;::>urpose i:1 =.-e.:.c:c; i.n70l.'Teci in ?uz:i<: :~!-2. ~c : hooe all :nel!'.he::-s' ?=oses :_n ::eL -.g i:wcl'lec '­ ~:i~ life :s ~ot necessarily to qet ele~ced . ~ha t ~s a leve~ t~ough •,;hi::h -.ne goes ::o :.::y :o se::ve one's ?::-ovi:-~ce 1 -:~ac :.s ~hac. :s ~9or~c. anc whec~er you se~te :t as an elec~erl ~a~be::- o::- as a =is he~e~ :._, :'CO 'JO Od A-.-:n~. =ha: is ~hat it ~s a:l a~u~. :c ~s ~ot a oues ~!o n o: ·Nr.ethe= :;ou can ~ec elected ~n ~his issue, o~ ~~ ;e~ e!ec~ed ~n ~~o~~e:- :ssue. ~hat a sor:-y way co ?~esen~ ~he ~jor issues o~ t~a '2:,;. :: ~t is convenie:-~c !r.c if ~s ?O!~:~:ally conv~~:e~:,~~e:-ef~~~ ycc ~e: ~:~c~eC on t~.

The GUestioo supe~s eC es ar~ ~ve~iCes ~hcs~ k~~Cs oi s~~:y ~role:a~ia: :ype oE cor.cer~ ~ie~c ~ow. ~~c is ~c s~a~~ ~~r~ lS ~~e ?~ovi~ce ~f ~e~Nf~u~~:anC a~C ~=acior. whe~~e~ ~ ~ec ~lac~~d c~ :.re ::o ::oc ;e-: alec:ed '"e ~us~ -:ake ~~Cs or~.- p r L~cip -le. :t has 1 0 4 7

~!arch 14, 1980 Tape No. 402 :.IM - 2 ?~X:~R ?EC:c?C!W: ~o~hing ~o co wi~h ~~ac . -~~ let it be cle~:r. :-~r. 5pea.l>e:r, it has :1othing to do ... lt~ zeing se! =ish or ::rying co ,?ic:;;;r e me no w. Let us, as hon . members ~e r e for or.ce i~ our :ive s, ~hile ~e a~e her e in chis House, ! am ~ot !~teres~ed i~ ?ic ~u:~~g ?a :~ies he:e . ! am !~ ce:esced i~ an :ssue ~r~c~ is more Lapo~ant ~han our ?Olitical lives, ~o re impo rcant th at our party lives for :.he nexc ten or fi ft:een yea .rs.

It supersedes t!-la c. !t is :he :no st ~dpcrtant :ssu e :ver ~c :ace, as ~ say ir. the •peech, ~ve~ to :ace this ?~vLnce anc ~i:l continue ~o be :o :r t!-le nex: =~ ~r three yea:rs, ~e?encing on how i: is resolved . ;_,d ic is not one or a ?rinci?le of no shanng •;e rsus a ?ri:~ciple of so aring , it is a prin ciple of shari.'lg . 7hat lS what: ~t ooi!s do~m CO. :c is a prL~clple c! dec ree here. as f.u- u sh.a..:'i--~<; ;oes. -.:~ aa ..,a:1c ;~ see shari.:t:; 3-_!'0U.'"U:i :his cou~t-=v a!'lC. ~oboCy ~as a ~~opol? o~ ~~ac. a~c ~~ ~s 3:s~ ·- eve~ ~ ~e i~?Or~a~~ ~~n :ha~ - :s d ~es~~on ?f who is qoi~q to o~~~~ize anC who is ~oL,g ~:> :'14V~ some ::ont.:'ol ove~ a mass~ ·;e , huge - : do no:: ~!1l.nk 'T\OSC hon. ~e~~:s ~~ this :ouse. sooeci~es ! ;v~n ~es~!on ·Nhe~he~ : ~o ~vsal:, ;·;e::. c::cu<;::: : ~---a~ :=av ·9lleC :t_rou~C and sa~ i-; J. l.o~. :£kal!.:e ·..mac ;..ri.:l :"1a"O:::! e:'l ~~ ~~1~ ?~~vince ove~ ~~~ ~exc ~~e ~r =~~ years, 1= :~ :~ c ~ ~~£ ~:~ anC qas ~~!~~ c~mes ~==· : ~o t-oe t~i~k people ~eally ~r.de~s= a~d ~r.ac :~ =c~~g -;o ~a?;en. ::~u:::: ·;c~'l ·.~ell :ies::::-o~· cs . .!..1\C -:hat :.-3 •4·?::1 ·11e !"le~ so::le Sil*f ..... ::o~ e:o:.:::~s!.vel·,, ~oc ~ ~~~ :e~:i~~~= :f ::~.::e:- pa.:-;s -:.: -:a~aCa, ::u~ ·..:e mcs;: ?lave som4!. ,.,ear:.:::e:--.:.: ~::~'::i .. ~ s~! ~~: ;~ ~~c~l ::cw -~ =anno~ jo :~:. sc:£ ~'JN. :-~E:·!BE?.S, F.ea :-, hear! :·:?. . ~.;.?Y: ~~e ~ve:-, hoy. c~~e :ve:-. ??z·~~;t ?EC:<::':' ?~.: ~:- 3~~<e=, ~S ~he ~rsc:ocs S?eec~ ne~:io~S, ~~~ :oulc ~e ry •ell be ar. hLs:.or~~ ~eba~e :ha~ we are ~ow ~~vi~~ :~ hen .

H~~se , 7he c=m in~ :oce~~e: ~: ~vencs ~e3~s -;hac ma:or :e:is1o~s ~~ ~~r ~~sour :!: d-a ·.;e.:o!)ment: ac:: ~·;1. --:.ies :nl:.s:: he t"!&rl~ over ~he :-:t?x-: ~:tort f.Yh~l!! . It 1 0 4 B

- ------------- ~\arch 1.:, 1980 Tape No . 40 2 ~IH - 3 PREMIER ?!::C<FORO: was wich :his i~ mind c~at c~e qove~~ent ou~lined ~~ emphasis on these thre~ ma jor ~esource Ce~elcome~t activities~ t:he tishe...-v. offshore oil and cas. ,!!r,d hydro . for. :1r. soeake::::. if there are to be more iocs for N"e·..n:our.dlanders. j.f there are to be more ou.blic services fo r Ne•rtoundlana ·e::-s, i.': there is ::o !>e :tn improvement i.:1 the ?::ovf.:tce•s :inancia.l ?Osition, it can ocly occ;.~r through che rationa _l and efteccive deve1.opme."lc of these t..k.r~e resource deve.lopment sec::ors.

It is. in my view, :olly to etnphasize ot:he r :.::-eas of sociecv which, for :~e :ao-st ?art, ,,.,ill be t:.a.kinq money from the economy if , :i=st.l_y, the money is noc being gene::-atee. ~ence, a suitacle and ap;:ropri~te 1049

March 14, 1980 Tape 403 EC - l P~~IER PECXFORD: foundation on which to build a compassionate society must be from the generation of new dollars which can only come,in Newfoundland's context, from the fishery, in the long term from offshore oil and gas and short and medium term from hydro development. Those who would deny this principle and would somehow try to confuse ~~s principle,have missed the whole point of resource development stra~egy ~~t this government is in the process of enunciating.

Schools, hospitals, water and sewer, improved highways, ongoing transportation facilities all over the Province, and many, many oth.er social services programmes, have their origin in the creation of wealth by the society as a whole. The creation of weal~~ can only be found in the resources of ~~e jurisdiction and from the creativity of its people. That is • .,hy, Mr.

Speaker, I am profoundly disappointed with what seems to me - and I will ~ake out the words, I do not want to be partisan here in this debate on t."lis thing - wi~~ the approach that seems to be - and I will concede the point - taken by ~~e Opposition in debating this gracious Speech. Because, Mr.

Speaker, it seems to show - I will change it - a lack of understanding of t."le basic and fundamental problems facing this Province ove: the next year or~~ and over the next number of generations. -Our probl~s are easily disce~ihle and ~"ley relate to the factors ~"la~ I have just Mentioned, a soazing provincial debt, the highest levy of taxation on a people in Canada, continued high unemployment and a standard of living less than any ot.~er people in ~,y Province of Canada.

The solution to t.'lese ?roblems must be found in t."le next number of years or otherwise, ,..e "'ill be relegating ourselves to a level of ser•rices which will "::le below that of ot."ler societies in this Confederation. That is why, Mr. Speaker, ~"lis administration has put as a cornerstone to the futur~ prosperity ~f ~~is ?rovince, to ~~e solution of ~,e problems of ~~is Province so tha~ ~he level of services can be permanently at a level equal to, and hopefully ever. greacer than the rest of Canada , the !ishe~ of this Province. SOME HON.

ME~!EERS , PREMIER PEClCFORD: Hear, hea::-~ It will always be, in my view, and, ! am sure, in the view of many Newfoundlanders, t~e Major resource 1L50

March H, 1980 Tape 403 EC - 2 PREMIER ?ECKFORD: development activity which will allow for the continued existence of the Newfoundland and Labrador as we know it today. That is an important phrase - 'as we know it today'. But, Mr. Speaker, we have been blessed once again by additional resources which in the short term can provide us with ~~e financial flexibility to better develop the ongoing renewable resources like the fishery, like the forestry, like tourism, and the o~~er activities that can be a permanent solution for the long term for our people.

With the proper development of these resources to er.hance job opportunities in the short and medium term and to give us the financial flexibility spoken about, we can build a society whi~~ can equal societies anywhere else in Canada and at ~~e same time, Mr. Speaker, and of great il!:!portance, contribute to societies in ot.~er par-~ of Canada which have not up to ~~at ~ime rea~~ed a point where they can be self-sufficient. SOME HON. ,'!EMBERS: !lear, hear!

PREMIER PECKFORD: It is with this background that ~~s administration has indicated clearly and unmistakably, three phases to its overall strategy for making Newfoundland a better place in which to live over the short, medium and long term. These s~rategies mus~ first and forernos~ be the fishery of Newfoundland which must be expanded and must be effectively manaqed to maximize jab oppor~-~~ies, to maxi~:e~ ~~erefore, secondary processing and value added that is needed in our fishery in a way consistent with the presen~ population pat~ern distribu~on of ~~is Province.

A natural corollary, therefore, to this aim and principle is the acquisition by ~ewfoundlanders and Labradorians of additional fish to allow for the con~inued ope~a~ion of our fish processing =acilities beyond their aormal follr, five or six mon~h period now presently in effec~. This, of course, leads to ~he ~ealistic contention that Newiouncilanders and Labradorians must ha~e first call on the Nor~~e~~ cod stoc ~; 1 0 51

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 404 so - l PREMIER PECXFORD: that the inshore fishery must be protected at all costs and that even after it has been protected and expanded to a realistic level over the next five to ten years, the so-called surplus that might exist in addition to what would be needed on the inshore should be, in the first instance, relegated to Newfoundland and Labrador so that the processing sectors have access to this additional fish to bring about ~~e fish plants being opened for eight to ten and even twelve months of the year and hence reduce our unemployment and thereby increase our wealth. liN HON.

MEMBER: Hear, hear. PREMIER PEC:<FORD: This kind of contention is not based on any selfish motive but rather on ~~e principle of traditional historic rights which we believe should apply to the extraction of resources throughout all of Canada and if this kind of reasonable, equitable principle is applied, then justice will not only be done as it relates to ~~e Norchern cod stock,but . it will be done for Nova Scotians, New 3urnswickers, Prince Edward Islanders and people ~~roughout the Nation ·~o can make such claims. SOME F!ON. ME!A.EERS: Hear, hear. PREMI3R PECXFO?n: Secondly, Mr.

Speaker, we would indeed be re~~ss as leaders of ~~is ?~evince ~~d legislators of this ?arlid.J.L~.ent if, in fact, 'lie accepteC the present state of af.=airs which exists as it relates to the Upper Churchill contract ~~d ar. overall strate~z for Labrador pcwe~ development, if we did net recogr-ize that in the first instance that Upper Churchill contract must, in fact, be changed ~n soll".e way to provide us •..;ith arlCitional revenues and power for this Province • ·ro do other,.,ise wculd, in :r.y ~ew, be totally and absolu~ely irresponsible. SO~ HON.

MEMBERS : Hear, hear. ?!lE:-IIER ?ECJCFORD: lt is a fact that if a reasonable deal were now struck on the power contract~ and let us, when ~e think about it as good Canadians and Newfoundlander and Labradorians. Here is an indication, sure we are not the most wealthy ~clopl~ in society on this globe: but i! that contrac-.: ·..-ere changed reasonably 1852

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 404 SD - 2 PREMIER PECXFORD: we wo~d not be, as the member for Carbonear (Mr. R. Moores) indicated , just continuing gratefully receiving the wealth of other parts of Canada.

The point must be made and must continue to be reiterated by all Newfoundlanders and Labradorians that we have it within our grasp here to be true, positive contributors to Confederation in Canada if we ~ot these deals or if we can now get them changed. so we are not just recipients of somebody else's wealth but can, in our own merit, both contribute to our own better well being and ~~at of other people in this Confederation.

We did not recognize that in the first instance that Opper Churchill contract must, in fact, be changed in some way to prgvide us with additional revenues and power for this P~vince, to do otherwise would, in my view, be totally and absolutely irresponsible. It is a fact that if a reasonable deal were now struck on ~~e power contract, on the Opper Churchill with Hydro Quebec and the Province of.

Quebec, Newfoundlanders and Labradorians could in fact be a part of a provi~ce which could claim the same kind of status, that of a have province, as the provinces of Ontario, Alberta, British Columbia and Saskatchewan now can claim. We intend to see, and there is no threat, ~~at contracts of this sort will never again be allowed to occur and why, ~~erefore, it is wi~~ a great deal of caution that we approach and move forward to try to see that the Lower Churchill developments become a reality. ~.

Speaker, we believe that -:he water c~~ :low to ~~e sea until a fair ~~d equit~le deal is struck for the people of this Province - SO~ ?.:ON. !o!E!'.BERS : Hear, hear. PP.EMIER PEC!CFOHD: - not only in the short ter.r. but in the long term and if, ~r. Speaker, it is possible to extract a better deal on the Upper Churchill, then ~~is will be additional money much needed in this Province to continue to provide expanded services and to relieve the financial situation that we now =ind 1 0 53

M;irCh 14 1 1980 Tape No. 404 SD - 3 PREMIER PECKFORD: ourselves in. Consistent wi~~ that policy there is also the question of power subsidies ~~at have been provided at high cost to the taxpayers to various industries in this Province and reiterate again 1 u 54

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 405 EL - l PREMIER PECKFORD: our intention to bring to this hen. House enabling ~egislation which would see to it that the Government of Newfoundland, with the various cor?Qrations involved, negoti~te towards making these kinds of subsidies less on the taxpayers of Newfo .undland so that the benefits to be derived from these industries for Newfoundlanders would be greater than they are today. Surely, Hr.

Speaker, this is a departure from the past when these kinds of issues were the political rhetoric of the day during an election time but which were lost and forgotten as soon as the respective parties won their place in this hon. House. This administration,in sharp contrast· to those that have come before, of whateve~ political stripe, intends to act and to put into practice the promises, committments and policies and programs articulated during election campaigns. It is,with this in mind, we intend to move forward on ~~is policy during this session of ~~e House. SOME • nON.

MEMBERS : Hear, hear~ PREMIER PECX.:'""ORD: I am disappointed though, Mr.

Speaker, in the way that the opposition has approached this gracious Speech and have, to a large degree, some of ~~e members especially r~ther than the ~cader and have not commented upon the fishe"Y, ~ave totally lacked any comment upon the hydro developme~t in Labrador, the whole question of t~ing to get through legislation making it obligatory for additional processing of raw ~terials in Newfoundland,and almost completely ignoring the fact that this government intends to bring in legislation to ~y to bring about a more equitable dis~ibution of power costs bet~een t~e taxpayers of Newfoundland and private industry.

Given all these disappointments, and they are great individually, but greater, of course, collectively, 1 u 55

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 405 EL - 2 PREMIER PECKFORO: and I will take out the words here to show my fAirness in trying to present this speech. But it did seem to me,and it does, I do not know what the position of the Leader of the Opposition is clearly on this whole question of the off-shore. I do not clearly know what the pOsition of the Liberal Party of ~ewfoundland is or. the question of mineral ownership on the off-shore.

I have heard various statements from one or the other of the members and I am not sure what the Leader of ~~e Opposition's position is and I must obviously take my cue from wh~t his position is, to be what is the position of the Liberal Party of Newfoundland. But it seemed to me that over the last number of days especially , until today,that there was an attempt by the Liberal Party of Newfoundland to speak for ~d coordinate with those people in Ot~wa who might not be as sympathetic to the cause of. mineral ownership by t..'le Province as would otherwise be the cast!!, 'fR. STAG G: PREMIER PECXFORD: MR. D.

JAMIESON : of just a short intervention ? PP.Ex:IER PECK..""'' ?ll : !-!R. D . JA.~IE SON : MR. SPEAKER (BUT T) : MR. D. JA.~IESON: Right on! And I will leave it for them- Would the Premier give me the courtesy Yes, absolutely. I just want to - The hon. the Leader of the Oppositio n. In the interests of hearing him out fully, I just want to tell, t..~rough you,~r. Speaker, there has been no consultation since the election _ P~~ER PECKFOPD: ~- D. JAMTESOM: I believe 70u . _for very obvious reasons that it ~as only been a matter of ten days or two weeks.

I am not saying that ~'lere ·,fill not be, but I '"ant to assure him that any sort of calculatec strategy is not in fact the case and I am sure he will ta ke ~y ~~rd 1056

~arch 14, 1980 MR. 0. JAMIESON: PREMIER !?ECKFORD: MR. SPEAKER SOME BON. MEMBERS: PREMIER PECKFORD: Tape No. 405 for that. I will, wholeheartedly. The hon. the Premier. Sear, hear! EL - 3 Down on tm! bottom of page 7 , Mr. Speaker, what we are talking about here relates to the future of Newfoundland. The future viability of N-foundland and Labrador as a people and as a society, that is the issue 1and how we want to, as a people, be, twenty or thirty years fr0111 now.

The possibility of becOming a self­ sufficient partner within Confederation, that is the issuetand obviously and clearly and umnistakably the Opposition of this leg­ islature, np until just a few minutes ago, bad determined that we, in my view, had a very remote chance of ever becomming a have Province of this Confederation~ That they move therefore from the premise that we would al.ways be receivinq equalization payments, that there would al.ways be SQmehow less able to govern our fears and o~er parts of this C:onfederation.

It is very inCumbent upon the Liberal Party of Newfoundland to take a stand, a clear, unmistakable stand on this, because if we go divided from this day forward or from this week forward or f=m this ft'nth fon~ard, it is going to :nake the battle all the more difficult to win. It will make the battle all the more difficult for as to win because the Federal Liberal Govern­ ment of Ottawa will look to its counterpart in the Province for guidanee on the politics of this issue and when the rest of canada, including the Federal government. GS

March 14, !980 Tape :o~o . 4 OE H~-t - !. P~~IE?- ?EC:<70RD: see chac ~here i ·s :10::: unaoim ·icy on t his kind of issue, : hen of course they can move in quickly and expeditiously to ensure tha~ ~ h e prese:1t power s~ucture of this Count~ remains in Cen tral canada . ~ou see, Mr. Speaker, 1:. is :1ot jus:: a fact or ~ concern of mL'le that Mr . ~rudeau o r }fr.

LeLonde o r one of t.~.e ne.w federal cni:1i ste ~ s or ~he ?r:.me :..'1-inist:er ad~e r es :o this pcr=t.i-c ula.r :>hil;esophy o f Ccn=ecer.a.cion~ wha.c ~ea lly both e:s Jle is :.!la-e ~hen i1:. get:s Cown i.ntQ p rac~ice , i t. ensures t..~at ehe ?resent: i~du~r.!.a~ ::omplex ~Nhich wants t:o cont i.:lue to feeC of~ the extre:ni t ies o f Canada bu~ rema in firmly ent:renc!'!ed in Ce.:lt:ral canada, will have their 'NaY ..

SOME cON . ~"""'SE::.:iS : Hear, ~ea.= ! ??.E:U::R ?EC:<:' O?.!>: Anci whac ! mean by tha~ in aim?l e ~2~s is t~ac i= 'ile rio ~ot hav e che kind oi re gu.l a_ t~ o ns ,...,e have a-!J~lyinq compa:1y ;. .~rotr. ~ault, Cnc3.rio, o :: Company 3-, ~=em Ram.:.:~on, on~ 3~io, compar.y : ~ : ·com Ch.a::!:>ougameu, n uebe-e - :1.."'<. NE.A.."'.Y : - "•lest ~i!=an ;r . ?RE::1:E;P. ?!::C-<EORD : - ::>r :rotr.

Nest: :;e=ma:1y . ~4hatev3~, can s--il~ manipula~e =r.e ~eve~s :~om Gaul ~, ~em Hamil~or. , ==om Chabouca~o~, or ~hac ever t:-te !"lame ~f the pla.-;e- 13. or ~om ~ a lg a.ry or some,~he=~ :Use ~ ~c -::ta ': -:!":e:-e= o-re we cannoc :.rou 3ee ~;,e~ ~ x psc~ ::.o max!.~ .lZ2 art:n;:h!~9' in ::hi.s ?:~·ri:\ce , ~~a : i~ ...,::li ~c~ ~ ;-oss:J:.:.~ :or :!.a~;e compani~s ·A !.:~ a suCs-:a.ntial )!ewfou !1C.lar.d com;;one:tt. ~ o beco~e ef=:?co:!v~l y anci ~:!"·~!' ln·;olve:C i:1 : he ?::ose::-:Jc.ion of ot: ~ .!'"esou.=ce d~velopmenc ov~:­ :.;,e lon9 ~~~, t.hac it will no c =>e possible : o ·r .3u!'>st:ar~-ial numbers of )lew.fot::.nCl anCe..!"s ~ o becorrte C l :re c ~ l: a:1.d ::r!tical~? i~~o!veC ir. ~:te deve:opme.!lt :Jf cu.r :- eso~ces :!.:1 t:-te :Utur~.. .becac:Se ~ ~ ~.

S?eake:: 1 ~E i.! ~e do :to -: own ~he .:-esour~es, ou: c.ont.:cl ove: c:'\~ ar.C. ::tt!i: development is r.o~ h1nq . ~. Spea.:<er 1 ~U !: !.~ 'ilJments a.r e c :e.a:- on whac rNa Celie~ ~e o~.t~e ~in~ ~esource s o~ our C~~~in~~ta1 Shel! . Those ~~en~ s are la~a l ~zc t~y are baseC on -: ~e ~hole ~es~io~ of 1 :-.~ e.r::a. c.ional la.~N :.!? ::~ ~:tC i~c!.:Jding !. 94~ and t~e ~~~s :~f. ··n:..on 'Ni -:!":. 1L58

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 406 1\.TM - 2 PREMIER PECl<FORD: Canada at 1949 and we will, Mr. Speaker, be pursuing the policy of exercising that jurisdiction throuqh the oil and gas act already in place, through the oil and gas regulations already in place. aut more important than all of that, ~I. Speaker, and one could get into all the intricate legalities, I think it has become fairly clear over the last number of days tha~ if the present so-called dispute between the federal government and the Province oi ~ewfoundland over the claim of ownership, if it really wants to be settled, it can be settled very easily in a number of ways:

(1) It can be done through

an act of Parliament of the hOUse of Commons and simultaneously

an act through the House of Assmebly.

(2) It can be done through an agreement between the two governments in the same way as an agreement was reached between the federal government and the ~aritime Provinces. And (

J) It ~an be done in the way the British Government did it in relation to Bermuda and other te~ritorities in the Carribean years ~go when they, by a simple Orde~ in Council,~xtended the boundaries of these jurisdi~tions to include the mineral resources on their Continental Shelves. aut, ~r4 Speake~, t h er~ ~r~ other reasons, compelling, overriding reasons, :or t~is approach. ~hey are financial. T~ey are economic. ~hey are social. And t~ey are ~ultur~l reasons.

Eve~ybcdy recognizes thc.t there i3 just no more money to ~e -caken out -~f ~he ~Tewfoundland and ~abrader people through addi tiona!. 'taxation. t--le tried it agai:t today,. slaught2:::-ing them again today/ but ~here is :1ot any more wealth to be extract-=d oy way of taxatiot!. '""!"\e onlv •ra y additional funds can ~e generated over and above chose t~at are presently in place, t:trough taxation, throllgh federal gov~rnrnent 9ayrner.ts, t:-:rough corporate income caxes, and every othe!:' .:onceivable means at our disposal, <::-te only other way is ~o ':::reate more >Jealt~, to create additional dollars and t:,e only ~ra y this ca~ be done irl a sizeable, substaZ1.tial tr.~av, in c.t-.e s::or~ o:un is through the :::>roper dev·elo?rnent of oil and gas, no otheo: "av .

SOME HOM. ME!'\BERS : Hear, hear! 1059

!-larch 14, l<:SO Tape ~o. 406 ~:-1 - 3 !'RE)IIER l?SCX!'ORO: The mining seccor will conci."'lue ::o go up and down and ~e~ce ~~ cannoc dep~~d on a contir.ua1 progression upwarcs of :he royalties and mi~era1 resou=ces of th~s ?rovince or any other jurisdict~on . ?orestry is presently ac a very high level and will co ntinue that way, hopefully, into the long term. ~he only place where a signi£icant change ~an be ~ace to ::~e financial si~uacion of t~is ~~ovi~ce, of our ?=ov~nce, to allow us the !lexibi:~:y to build on our rene•..,able resourses li ke fisheries and lik .e forestry is ~~-ough a ~arge injec t ~on of money !rom che oil a~d gas developmenc. so :rom a sheer :'i:'lancia1 po~nt of vie•o~, ~o make •Js :toe be the !::ott:om rung on the ladder of conf!!deracion •Jh en 1.:: ::omes :o our ere<!.!:: rat:i.~g, ~ot: to oe ;;!-le bottom r~.1 nq on che ladder of Confederacion >~he:'! it c:>mes t~ t~e amoune ct :axat!on u9Qn our ?eogle , ~nt :o he c~e ~t~om ~~q ''" ::~., :.adder -.:hen ~: coG:es :o our st:a."lda.rd of llvi."'lg ~nd :;,e level ;;>f our public se~;ices, is to =e able co sec a large share of ::he revenues :o oe generat~ !rem oil and ;as.

SO~ /;ON . :!-!E..'!SE:RS: :O:e :a: , ~ear ! ?~~:;::::? ?'::C:<:O?.O: This money •.vi!!. <;:o 1:0 relieve and to eni':ance our :i:~ar.cial situac.!.on aile >:he::-eby give ~s acd!.:!.onal :le:<i!:l.!.:i>:•f, bot:'\ ~o bo:-~ow 10 60

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 407 ow - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: and to use some of the oil and gas money to put into those renewable resources like the fishery which long-term can give us a viability as a society. but only if we have the money now to develop that fishery right and properly. Mr. Speaker, the basic services needed to bring Newfoundland and Labrador to even a par level with the rest of Canada will take hundreds of millions of dollars and many, many years. How in the name of common sense and realism can this be done?

Surely this is not an ambitious aim - surely I speak for all in this House and a majority of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians when I set our sights on this "modest goal This goal has a chance of attainment only if we can create "additional weal~". This in the short and medium term (5 - 15 years) can only come from a sudden burst or explosion of additional money. This is only possible if we have commercial quantities of oil and gas - and more importantly if we get a large share of the ro~alties generated, in other words, if we own that resource, There is, ~r.

Speaker, no other way and I would be remiss as a leader in this Province. and Premier of this Province if ! misl~d any pe~son in this House or in Newfoundland differently, there is no other way. There is no other al~==native for reaching this goal. There is no ot~er way under the sun and the stars to achieve this modest r.easonable, sensible," goal of having our public services on a oar with other Canadians. There is no other wav for us to graduate to first-class status. SOME !iON. ME..'IBERS : Hear, hear.

PREM:U:R PECXFORD : Perhaps the factor which mn~~ ~ewfoundlanders and Labradorians understand only too well is the economic one as it relates to jobs and the cul~ural one relating to our way of life. As I listen to some of my fellow ~ewfoundlanders, I am at once e.ngry, cynical, humoured and finally left wi~h an emptiness and a sadness. Th~ hypocrisy of an hen. membe~ l.n this House . on t:;e one 1 0 61

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 407 ow - 2 P~EMIER ?ECKFORD : hand hardly sure ~hether we should own the oil and gas resources but at the same time asking, almost demanding, the provincial government of this Province to ensure that benefits from these resources are spread around the Province to his district. Where will our authority come from to make this happen if we do not have ownership? How do we truly ensure that qualified Newfoundlanders get jobs if we do not have ownership - how do we ensure that Newfoundland businesses get a fair crack if we do not have ownership?

Does not our economic history, both recent and ancient teach us something here. Does not the fact that our '"codl'" is being '"traded off '" in an inter- national chess game today teach us this lesson? Can one help but be cynical when one hears an hon. member of this House speak cf somehow ·• draining off '" the oil inside the 200-~il~ limit from wells that reside outside the 200 mile limit'? Is this the level of understanding on which the ultimate solution of this all-important question depend~? And yes, to hear others exclaim that there is too much talk of oil and not enouqh on people. Mr.

Speaker , it is to get jobs for people, to earn Money from oil to provide more services for people, ~hat is the issue, that is what the issue is all about, people !S the issue, Newfoundlanders !S the issue, the future viability of Canadians who happen to live on a land mass called Newfoundland and Labrador ~hat IS the issue. SOME RON . ~EM3ERS: t!ear, hear! PRE~IER PECKFORD: A~d as if this was not enough, how can it be conceived that some effective( meaninqf~l control o~er the impact of these massive developments can occur without ownership r~sicing in this Province~ It 1 0 6 2

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 407 ow - 3 PREMIER PECKFORD .: defies logic, it defies common sense. If we are serious and true to our objectives and ' ideals tQ lessen the negative efforts and impacts of this ".boom&", tlien "we" as Canadians living in Newfoundland must do it. If not, Mr. Speaker, I fear for our future. To those vho doubt our loyalty to our country, I reply •red herri%19 •". Mr. Speaker, is it Clisloyal to want to help Canac:la by helping ourselves? Is it disloyal to desire more jobs for Canadians who live hera? Is it disloyal to want less equalization and more self­ realization?

Is it disloyal to want to retain our unique- ness to e~rich the Canadian experience? If so, Mr. Speaker, call me a traitor and label me the greatest traitor of our time. we are embarked upon * great venture, an experiment in federalism. We 1063

March 14, 1980 Tape No. 408 SD - 1 PREMIER PECKFORD: ask and ve humbly ask for the opportunity for self-fulfillment and self-realization for an opportunity to realize our own worth and destiny, 'I'o the fulfillment of this goal, I will never waiver, Mr. Speaker, because I am convinced that one say soon the sun will shine and "have notn will be no 100re. SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. SPEAKER (Butt) : MR. D. JAMIESON: SOME HON. MEMBERS: MR. D. JAMIESON: Hear, hear. The hon. the Leader of the Opposition. Mr.

Speaker, I - Hear, hear. - am obviously not entitled to speak at this time but I wonder if the hon. the Premier would permit one very brief question 1 not here and nc.w b<'!cause I do not want to delay the House.

I would be very interested, however, in knowing whether or not the Premier whm he said, "He was not sure what our position is "- it would be very helpful indeed in giving him more clarity on that if he could, in writing perhaps to me, on the points begining on page nine where he talks about the three options. 'rf he could elaborate to me it would be very interesting to see because, for example, if he wishes to answer it now, it seems to me that number two, "through an agreement between the t"A"o governments in the same ·day a.s an B.g~-:emen1: was reached bet ..... ,..een the Federal Government and the Marit:ime Provinces." I would be interested in having a elaboration of that as to how he sees th~t functioning?

MR. SPEAKER: !'REMIER PECY..FORD: The hen. the Premier. On the first one , I think there has been a fair ~~unt of information both given by the Minister of Mines and Energy. (Mr. L. 3arry) - MR. D. JAMIESON: (I!1.3.11di.J:·le) I 'J.nderstc.!"