Manitoba Hansard — 5 April 2018 (Sitting 28B, 41st Legislature, 3rd Session)

41-3-28b

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

Third Session – Forty-First Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS Official Report (Hansard) Published under the authority of The Honourable Myrna Driedger Speaker Vol. LXXI No. 28B - 1:30 p.m., Thursday, April 5, 2018 ISSN 0542-5492

MANITOBA LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY Forty-First Legislature Member Constituency Political Affiliation ALLUM, James Fort Garry-Riverview NDP ALTEMEYER, Rob Wolseley NDP BINDLE, Kelly Thompson PC CLARKE, Eileen, Hon. Agassiz PC COX, Cathy, Hon. River East PC CULLEN, Cliff, Hon. Spruce Woods PC CURRY, Nic Kildonan PC DRIEDGER, Myrna, Hon. Charleswood PC EICHLER, Ralph, Hon. Lakeside PC EWASKO, Wayne Lac du Bonnet PC FIELDING, Scott, Hon. Kirkfield Park PC FLETCHER, Steven, Hon. Assiniboia Ind. FONTAINE, Nahanni St. Johns NDP FRIESEN, Cameron, Hon. Morden-Winkler PC GERRARD, Jon, Hon. River Heights Lib.

GOERTZEN, Kelvin, Hon. Steinbach PC GRAYDON, Clifford Emerson PC GUILLEMARD, Sarah Fort Richmond PC HELWER, Reg Brandon West PC ISLEIFSON, Len Brandon East PC JOHNSON, Derek Interlake PC JOHNSTON, Scott St. James PC KINEW, Wab Fort Rouge NDP KLASSEN, Judy Kewatinook Lib. LAGASSÉ, Bob Dawson Trail PC LAGIMODIERE, Alan Selkirk PC LAMOUREUX, Cindy Burrows Lib. LATHLIN, Amanda The Pas NDP LINDSEY, Tom Flin Flon NDP MALOWAY, Jim Elmwood NDP MARCELINO, Flor Logan NDP MARCELINO, Ted Tyndall Park NDP MARTIN, Shannon Morris PC MAYER, Colleen St.

Vital PC MICHALESKI, Brad Dauphin PC MICKLEFIELD, Andrew Rossmere PC MORLEY-LECOMTE, Janice Seine River PC NESBITT, Greg Riding Mountain PC PALLISTER, Brian, Hon. Fort Whyte PC PEDERSEN, Blaine, Hon. Midland PC PIWNIUK, Doyle Arthur-Virden PC REYES, Jon St. Norbert PC SARAN, Mohinder The Maples Ind. SCHULER, Ron, Hon. St. Paul PC SMITH, Andrew Southdale PC SMITH, Bernadette Point Douglas NDP SMOOK, Dennis La Verendrye PC SQUIRES, Rochelle, Hon. Riel PC STEFANSON, Heather, Hon. Tuxedo PC SWAN, Andrew Minto NDP TEITSMA, James Radisson PC WHARTON, Jeff, Hon. Gimli PC WIEBE, Matt Concordia NDP WISHART, Ian, Hon.

Portage la Prairie PC WOWCHUK, Rick Swan River PC YAKIMOSKI, Blair Transcona PC Vacant St. Boniface

1007 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA Thursday, April 5, 2018 The House met at 1:30 p.m. Madam Speaker: Good afternoon. Please be seated. ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS INTRODUCTION OF BILLS Bill 214–The Workplace Safety and Health Amendment Act Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I move, seconded by the member from The Maples, The Workplace Safety and Health Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur la sécurité –well, anyway, Bill 214– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Mr. Fletcher: –moving along– Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable member for Assiniboia. Mr. Fletcher: Be now read a first time. [interjection] Or the whole thing? That bill– Moved by myself, seconded by the member from The Maple s, that The Workplace Safety and Health Amendment Act be now read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Fletcher: My apologies to the French language. The h's always mess me up. But this bill, Mad am Speaker, I have dubbed Marlee's law.

Marlee is a caregiver and friend who is always wearing high heels: in mountains, in snow, on beaches, and though it is certainly not something I ask, it's something that is often demanded by employers, that female workers are required to wear high heels. And that is ridiculous in this day and age. This bill has been on the Order Paper for quite some time and it is quite similar to another bill that was entered in today, but is different in its wording in that it does allow for the exception of the area of modelling and movie-type situations.

So, Madam Speaker, this is a bill that specifically deals with high heels –word for word –in the actual legislation. Madam Speaker: Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion? Agreed? [Agreed] Committee reports? Tabling of reports? MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister for Sport, Culture and Heritage, and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Would the honourable minister please proceed with her statement. Women's World Curling Championship Team– Team Canada Hon.

Cathy Cox (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): I am honoured and thrilled to rise today to extend the government of Manitoba's congratulations to skip, Jennifer Jones; third, Kaitlyn Lawes; second, Jill Officer; lead, Dawn McEwen and fifth, Shannon Birchard for their outstanding, wire-to-wire gold medal performance at the 2018 women's world curling championships in North Bay, Ontario. Capturing their second world championship title, the Jones rink is now arguably one of the greatest curling teams in all times. Just look at the track record, Madam Speaker, at this remarkable and incredible team.

They hold two world titles, a record six Scotties Tournament of Hearts titles, an Olympic gold medal for the 2014 Sochi Olympic Games and more grand slam victories than any other women's team in history. It must have been an exceptionally satisfying win for the Jones rink team because it also marked, unfortunately, the end of a very stellar career for one of its most solid and accomplished team members, Jill Officer. What better way for a team to cap off a very remarkable career –or, for a player to cap off a very remarkable career and for a team to bid a very fond farewell to a beloved teammate and friend.

It was so wonderful for the team to have so many family members and friends on hand to share that very, very special moment. And, Madam Speaker, on behalf of this Chamber, I would like to extend our sincere best

1008 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 5, 2018 wishes to Jill Officer as she steps away from competitive curling. We all wish her well as she moves on to the very next

chapter in her life. And, recently, and before the world championships, Jennifer Jones and Jill Officer were also inducted into the Manitoba Curling Hall of Fame. And, usually, Madam Speaker, individuals are not inducted into the hall of fame until after they retire, but when you've accomplished as much as Jennifer and Jill, you can hardly blame the Manitoba Curling Hall of Fame for being a little impatient about wanting to acknowledge two of Manitoba's greatest curling legends. Madam Speaker, Manitoba holds a special place in its heart for the curling sport –for the sport of curling and our curling heroes.

It's a sport deeply woven into the fabric of our culture, history and people, and there are reasons why we like to call ourselves the curling capital of the world. You only need to take a look at the Jones rink to know where that belief comes from. And it is also why our government is creating an International Curling Centre of Excellence here in Manitoba, and we are so proud that Jennifer Jones and Jill Officer are both serving on that very important committee.

Madam Speaker, I invite all Manitobans, all – everyone here in the Chamber today to join us in congratulating Jennifer Jones, Kaitlyn Lawes, Jill Officer, Dawn McEwen and Shannon Birchard for all of their accomplishments and especially for winning the 2018 women's world curling championships. Hurry hard. Thank you. Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): I want to honour and say a special congratulations to our Canadian woman's team for winning gold in the Ford World Women's Curling Championships this March.

Led by Canadian curling legend Jennifer Jones, Team Canada defeated all competition on the road to an undefeated 12-0 record during the round robin. In playoffs, the team next –the team's next game was in the semifinals, where they faced a long -time rival, the United States. Here, Team Jones put up a valiant effort and achieved victory with a score of 9-7. Canada's final matchup was a heavyweight exchange for the ages, where they faced off against their best competition in Team Sweden.

With each of these two teams winning one of the past two Olympics, the sold-out arena was for –a real treat for everyone in attendance, Madam Speaker. The gold medal game truly lived up to its hype, as Sweden was able to force the game into extra ends, but in the end it was Team Canada who emerged victorious in the extra round. With four of their members born right here in Manitoba, our team representing Canada truly has some deep Manitoba roots, and their efforts are something all Manitobans can celebrate together.

Today, we want to congratulate Team Jones, and especially Jill Officer, who announced that she will be finishing her career next year. This –what a wonderful memory to have with the team that she's had so much success with. Miigwech and congratulations. Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Madam Speaker, I ask fo r leave to speak in response to the minister's statement. Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the statement? [Agreed] Ms.

Lamoureux: It is my distinct pleasure to rise today to acknowledge six exceptional women for their world-class achievement. * (13:40) Last month, Jennifer Jones, Kaitlyn Lawes, Jill Officer, Dawn McEwen, Shannon Birchard and their coach, Wendy Morgan, distinguished themselves at the 2018 women's world curling championship. After dominating the round robin as the only undefeated team, they continued through the playoffs to capture the gold medal in grand fashion, winning in extra ends.

Madam Speaker, this was an especially fitting farewell for Jill Officer to go out as a champion as she steps away from the game she has excelled in for all these years. These women, our Team Canada from right here in Manitoba, stand as examples of determination, teamwork and excellence to our province and, indeed, all of Canada. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

April 5, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1009 Tartan Day Madam Speaker: The honourable Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage, on another ministerial statement, and I would indicate that the required 90 minutes notice prior to routine proceedings was provided in accordance with our rule 26(2). Would the honourable minister please proceed with her statement. Hon. Cathy Cox (Minister of Sport, Culture and Heritage): I am honoured to rise again to recognize Tartan Day, which celebrates people of Scottish origin and their many contributions to help people–to help building our wonderful country.

Since 2011, Tartan Day has been nationally recognized on April 6th as the anniversary of signing the Declaration of Arbroath in 1320, known as the Scottish declaration of independence. In Manitoba, Tartan Day had been declared by the Legislative Assembly in 1994 in recognition of the role that Scottish Manitobans have played and continue to play in Manitoba's cultural heritage. Manitoba has had an official tartan since the passing of the Manitoba tartan act in 1962.

Scottish settlers had been –Scottish settlers have been central to the development of the province when Scots employed by the Hudson's Bay Company first set foot in the territory, and in 1783 a group of Scottish traders founded the competing North West Company based in Montreal, causing the traders of both companies to push westward in their search for furs. Historically, the best -known group of Scots in Manitoba is surely the Selkirk settlers, Manitoba's first known group of refugees who, in 1812, fled the Highland enclosures that had left them homeless.

Two centuries ago, Lord Selkirk signed a treaty with five First Nations chiefs, led by Chief Peguis, that founded the Red River Colony and formalized a relationship that had begun when Chief Peguis and his people first came upon the struggling Scots and helped them survive, Madam Speaker. Many names from that time have come down to us today, attached to towns, streets, parks and schools. We recognize the names of Thomas Douglas, Miles Macdonell, Kildonan, McGillivray, Gunn and many others. And last year, Manitoba honoured the bicentennial of the signing of the Selki rk-Peguis Treaty in 1817.

And one of the best recognized of Canada's many influential Scots was Sir John A. Macdonald who immigrated to Canada with his family when he was only five and went on to become Canada's very first prime minister. And, Madam Spe aker, the list of Canadians of Scottish birth–or, of descent who are famous in this area of –in the areas of endeavour is too long to list. They include educators, politicians, inventors, entrepreneurs, athletes and artists.

And Scottish–and Canadians with Scottish heritage have been central to such wide -ranging accomplishments such as the invention of the telephone, the implementation of universal health care and our women's right to vote. I hope you will all join me in the Chamber today in congratulating the St. Andrew's Society of Winnipeg and celebrating the many contributions that Scottish culture and people have made to our wonderful province and our very amazing country here in Canada. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Mr.

Andrew Swan (Minto): It is in the truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom, for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself. On April 6th, 1320, these words appeared in the Declaration of Arbroath, considered by many to be the S cottish declaration of independence. Tomorrow, 698 years later, we recognize Tartan Day and honour not only Scotland, but the extraordinary role and contributions of Scots in our history of Manitoba and Canada. The history of Scots in Canada extends bac k at least as far to the first trading posts of the Hudson Bay Company.

Although the company was run out of London, it was largely the Scots, many from the Orkney Islands, who worked on the bay. More than 200 years ago the Selkirk settlement was founded by Lord Selkirk, a noble who recognized the struggles of Scottish peasants displaced by wealthy landowners who found they could make more profit from sheep than people. Lord Selkirk assisted many with the voyage to Manitoba to rebuild their lives. These Sel kirk settlers, who were welcomed and assisted greatly by Manitoba's indigenous people, are a part of our province's history and heritage.

1010 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 5, 2018 Many Scottish Canadians have played a predominant role in shaping our country. Factories, hospitals, schools, railway s and airlines were established and organized by Scottish -trained immigrants. Women's rights moved forward thanks to Nellie McClung, Agnes Macphail and Thérèse MacDonald Casgrain. Workers' rights advanced with Scottish tradespeople and labourers who fought for the right to organize and to bargain.

Winnipeg's 1919 general strike, blamed by many in power on eastern European immigrants, was in fact in large part organized by Scottish -Canadian workers, many of whom had fought for Canada in the First World War. And, of course, our country would not be the same without the father of medicine and our greatest Canadian, Tommy Douglas, who was born in Scotland. Lest my comments be taken as political, I point out that more than half of Canada's prime ministers, many Manitoba premiers, and many, many Manitoba mayors, councillors and other leaders of all political stripes have had Scottish blood.

To say that our plural societies in Manitoba and Canada would not be the same without Scots is an understatement. Today there are 4.7 million Canadians of Scottish heritage, almost as many as there are Scots in Scotland. Tomorrow on Tartan Day let us recognize and celebrate those Scots, past, present, and future, who have toiled to build our province and country we know and love today. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): Madam Speaker, I ask for leave to speak in response to the Ministerial Statement.

Madam Speaker: Does the member have leave to respond to the Ministerial Statement? [Agreed] Ms. Lamoureux: The Scottish clans of Canada have been working for over 30 years to have Tartan Day named in parliaments and legislatures across Canada, from a motion written by the clans of Nova Scotia that said this to be a day chosen to promote Scottish heritage by the most visible means. People of Scottish heritage have proudly worn their tartan, even during the 40- plus years they were made illegal across the United Kingdom.

This month, Madam Speaker, the Liberal biannual convention wi ll be taking place where this motion was first made, and all Manitoban delegates will be wearing their Manitoba tartan scarves that are for sale right here at the legislative gift shop. In closing, Madam Speaker, heritage should be worn proudly. It should be celebrated. And it should be respected by all governments. Thank you. MEMBERS' STATEMENTS Chinese Lantern Light Festival Mr. Kelly Bindle (Thompson): Madam Speaker, I'm happy to report Manitoba has a vibrant and growing tourism sector.

In celebration of Canada -Chinese year of tourism 2018, and the 30th anniversary of the twinning of Winnipeg with sister city Chengdu, Sichuan, China, Mayor Brian Bowman announced yesterday a Lights of the North, Chinese Lantern Light Festival will be showcased in Winnipeg in the autumn of 2018. Winnipeg will be the first Canadian city ever to host a light show of this magnitude, and we thank His Worship Mayor Brian Bowman, Dorothy Dobbie, Brian Wood, Steven Wu and all the local investors who have accepted this challenge, and it is a daunting challenge.

It is a $4 -million venture, whereby it will take 75 to 100 Chinese artisans six to eight weeks to construct towering Chinese lantern light artwork statues using various common items such as cups and saucers, plastic bottles and ping-pong balls to be showcased to thousands of visitors from around the world across 10 acres of land dispersed among different events, including authentic Chinese music and dance shows, craftwork displays and food vendors, for two months. We thank Winnipeg's sister city Chengdu, China, for helping to bring this light show to Winnipeg.

It is a celebration of Chinese culture, it is a celebration of diversity and it is a celebration of our similarities. This festival rekindles and stren gthens an existing bond that was created when giant pandas Cheng Cheng and Rong Rong were brought to Winnipeg 30 years ago, a relationship that continues to bring lasting benefits for both countries.

April 5, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1011 Please join me in welcoming Dorothy Dobbie, Brian and M onica Wood, and Steven Wu, who are here in the gallery today, and in thanking them for previously bringing the pandas to Winnipeg, for securing the Lights of the North, Chinese Lantern Light Festival for Winnipeg and for promoting Manitoba tourism. Thank you Madam Speaker. * (13:50) Tina Fontaine Memorial Mrs. Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): Grade 11 R.B. Russell high school student Trinity Harry never knew Tina Fontaine, but felt a deep connection to her.

Trinity could particularly relate to her feeling of being unsafe while walking in our city. Trinity's fear of being unsafe grew following the non -guilty verdict of–in the Tina Fontaine trial. After expressing the way she felt to her welder teacher, Mike Johnston, he suggested that he –she turn her fear and worry into something that represented love and healing. Trinity decided to create a memorial that would both commemorate Tina Fontaine and raise awareness of the –on the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls.

Trinity wanted to honour the Fontaine family and to show them that they are not alone. Trinity and her classmate, Joseph Ginter, worked 30 hours to create a beautiful four -foot-tall rose made entirely out of metal. Tina's name sits in the very centre of this rose. Last week, the member of St. Johns and I were honoured to meet Trinity, Joseph, Mr. Johnston and Principa l Jacqueline Connell and had the honour of seeing first -hand how amazing and beautiful this rose was.

Principal Connell explained how proud she was of Trinity and Joseph expressing their feelings of heartbreak and fear in creating a memorial of love. We're so proud of Trinity and Joseph's memorial, but we are once again reminded of the struggles indigenous women and girls have to face. The fear Trinity expressed is not unique, unfortunately. Many of our mothers, sisters, aunties, cousins, nieces feel this every day. This is not okay. Indigenous women and girls should not fear becoming another victim of violence. And despite the verdict in the Tina Fontaine case, our indigenous youth are not disposable.

They are resilient, brilliant, valued, strong and embody–and an embodiment of love. Both R.B. Russell and Winnipeg School Division are proud of Trinity and Joseph. I encourage everyone to attend R.B. Russell's open house on April 19, 2018, between 1:00 and 6:00 to see this beautiful work of love and reflec t on what we all can do to make–to create a safer city, province and country. Madam Speaker: Sorry, the member's time has expired. Is there leave to allow the member to continue with her statement? [Agreed] Mrs. Smith: Miigwech.

I ask my colleagues to join me in honouring these young people, their educators, their parents, who are here in the gallery today. Miigwech, Madam Speaker. I ask for leave to have the names included in Hansard. Madam Speaker: Is there leave to include the names in Hansard? [Agreed] R.B. Russell Vocational School students, family and staff: Ian Campeau; Jacqueline Connell; Brad Davidson; Conrad, Debra and Joseph Ginter; Lindsey, Steven and Trinity Harry; Mike Johnston; Samantha Mann. William Pearcey Hon.

Ian Wishart (Minister of Education and Training): I am honoured to inform this House about a member of the Portage la Prairie Royal Canadian Legion Branch No. 65 who has received the prestigious Governor General's Sovereign' s Medal for Volunteers. The medal was presented to comrade William Pearcey on March 20th at the Legion's annual general meeting. This award is given for extraordinary individual volunteer achievements by a Canadian citizen. The medal builds on the legacy and spirit of Caring Canadian Award by honouring the dedication and commitment of volunteers.

William Pearcey was born in St John's, Newfoundland, and joined the Royal Canadian Air Force in 1957, took his basic training in Borden air base in Ontario and continued to serve in the RCAF for the next 25 years. While in service William travelled throughout Canada with postings in Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, Newfoundland and ultimately in Southport, Manitoba. William retired in 1982 and settled with his f amily in the Portage la

1012 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 5, 2018 Prairie community and continues as an active volunteer in the community. William has been a member of the Legion for nearly 40 years and has been the local Legion's service officer from 2004 to 2014. He works to promote veteran recognition and assists veterans to access services and supports. William has spearheaded the initiative for free parking for veterans in Portage la Prairie. He generously provides rides for veterans as needed and is devoted to checking on their well -being.

William is very involved in Remembrance Day and other commemorative services and helps various local Legion activities and events. I ask all honourable members to join me in congratulating William Pearcey on receiving this well-deserved award and recogni zing his volunteer achievements, dedication and commitment. Maureen Wood Ms. Judy Klassen (Kewatinook): On March 28th Maureen Wood embarked upon an epic journey. She is walking from St. Theresa Point to here, our Legislature, which is about 1,100 kilome tres, but her goal is to walk to Ottawa, a further distance of 2,200 kilometres.

She wants to bring attention to the meth crisis in our Island Lake communities. It's hitting hard all over Manitoba. Maureen started with her family. They first walked to Garden Hill, but there is no road between these two communities so they had to walk in deep snow at times, as the homemade ice road was just too hazardous. She was joined by people there. They then cont inued towards Wasagamack, and again, people joined. Those Island Lakers then walked the winter ice road to Norway House, a distance of about 225 kilometres. Once there, some simply could not continue and returned home.

Currently her movement has reached up to 30 walkers. Maureen is a single mother. He r eldest is taking care of his n omishoom here in city and her 15 year old is on her–with this walk. On the night I left the group, 100 kilometers from Ponton, it was minus 34 with the wind. It takes about one hour to walk five kilometres. One person has lost a toenail. Many have swollen legs and feet. All have blisters upon their blisters. Every person is walking for a family member. There are even some who a re currently struggling with addictions walking. It is a spiritual walk. They carry eagle feathers inside a Bible.

Prayers are said throughout the day for the strength to continue. I would like to thank the three Cree Nations from that territory that h ave stepped up and donated food, shelter, clothing and a place to rest. I hope everyone here can support somehow, perhaps even saying a quick prayer. Kitchi miigwech to the walkers for doing this for our people. You are all loved. Miigwech, Madam Speaker. Personal-Care-Home Staff Mr.

Dennis Smook (La Verendrye): I rise in this house today to recognize and hono ur a group of people that play an important role in the liv es of many Manitobans: that is the staff and workers at the many personal-care homes across Manitoba. Since being elected in 2011 I have had the privilege of visiting many personal -care homes in Manitoba, but more so in the last year since my mother-in-law became a resident in one of these homes. I must give credit to the staff for al l they do to make the residents feel at home. Many residents come to these PCHs unwillingly; they don't want to be there.

Many have physical challenges . Some suffer from dementia. It takes a special person to work with these residents and add to their qual ity of life. It seems the only time we hear about PCHs is when somebody wanders away or other negative news. While visiting my mother -in-law I have seen many staff members go above and beyond their job description to help residents feel at home, helping celebrate a resident's birthday and more. From what I have seen, I know my wife feels confident that her mother is being well looked after.

I would ask all members to help me thank the workers and staff of the many PCHs as they look after some of Manitoba's most important residents. Thank you.

April 5, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1013 Introduction of Guests Madam Speaker: Prior to oral questions, we have some guests in the gallery that I would like to introduce to you. We have seated in the public gallery from Westgate Mennonite Collegiate 18 grade 9 students under the direction of Jeremy Siemens, and this group is located in the constituency of the honourable member for Wolseley (Mr. Altemeyer). On behalf of all honourable members here, we welcome you to our Manitoba Legislature. * (14:00) ORAL QUESTIONS Carbon Reduction Plan Transition to Green Economy Mr.

Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): We are going to hold over the Premier's (Mr. Pallister) carbon tax bill into the fall. It does not meet the needs of Manitobans. You know, we're asking Manitobans right now, in this historic moment, to switch to a greener lifestyle, to start heating their homes in a energy-efficient way–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –to use more transit, to start driving electric vehicles, and what programs are there to help them? Nothing. There are no programs being offered by this government that will actually help the average family switch to a greener lifestyle.

All that they'll be getting is $300 more in taxes for the average family to pay. Now, we want them to switch, and instead this government is taking money away. When will this Premier bring forward a real plan to help deal with climate change and also help families with affordability? Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): Madam Speaker, as if 17 years of degrading the environment was enough–wasn't enough for the NDP, now they're stalling on measures that would reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the province and are continuing their legacy of not taking action on climate change.

We wish the members opposite would just get with us on board at reducing our greenhouse gas emissions in the province of Manitoba. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order, order. Order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: We know that the Premier refuses to provide a real climate change action plan for Manitobans. We want Manitobans to switch–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –to start using less carbon – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Kinew: –to heat their homes, to start using less carbon in the commute to work, or maybe just to start taking the bus. Now, what sort of assistance is this government providing families who want to m ake those green choices? Absolutely nothing. In fact, it will become harder to make a transition to green technology with $300 less in your pocket at the end of the year because of this mistaken carbon tax plan that's being offered. By the way, under this government, transit is getting more expensive and hydro is getting more expensive, too. This is simply not a way– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh.

Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –to fight climate change. Will the Premier withdraw his current carbon tax bill and bring forward a real one that ensures that every dollar collected with a price on carbon goes back towards fighting climate change? Madam Speaker: I would just like to point out to members in the gallery that there is to be no engagement in events that happen down here, so I would ask consideration that there be no applause from the gallery as those are the rules of this Chamber. Thank you, and I appreciate everybody's co-operation. Ms.

Squires: Perhaps the members opposite need reminding that it was just a mere six months ago that the Auditor General came out with a scathing report

1014 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 5, 2018 about their environmental record. They had no plan; they had no way in sight of reducing their greenhouse gas emissions–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Squires: The only thing that this –that the previous NDP government ever did for the environment was take a recycled promise, write it on a recycled napkin and call it an environment plan. Unlike them, we 've got a plan that is better for the environment and better for the economy. [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Kinew: Recycled answers from this government. They've held four press conferences to announce this plan. How many programs that will actually help the average family in Manitoba switch to a greener lifestyle? None . Zero. Zip. That's why we are delaying this bill until the fall. We want Manitobans to understand that they are going to be asked to pay more money, but they're not going to get any sort of assistance to try and switch to a greener lifestyle. And, again, under this government's watch, hydro is getting more expensive , t ransit is getting more expensive.

Why doesn't this government understand that as they make–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –green choices less and less affordable and take tax dollars away from Manitoba families that the green transition that we know needs to happen now for the sake of our children, for the sake of our environment, will become harder and harder for all of us to make? Ms. Squires: Well, in keeping with NDP legacy, they just called $140 million zip, nada, nothing.

And, unlike members opposite who don't value $140 million, our government's committed thus far $102 million into a conservation trust that will have lasting benefits in perpetuity in enhancing green infrastructure and an additional $40 million in green technology. That's just starting–that's just us getting started on the path down to transitioning to a low-carbon future. I wish members opposite would get out of the way and get on board with supporting our Climate and Green Plan. Madam Speaker: We're only on question two, so I would ask everybody's co-operation.

We've got a lot of guests in the gallery today, including students, and I would ask everybody's co- operation that when members are standing to ask a question or to answer a question, that we all respectfully listen to what is being said. I think that would make a great example for these students that are here in the gallery today. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a new question. Special Drug Program Request to Retain Mr. Wab Kinew (Leader of the Official Opposition): Without consultation and without warning, this Premier (Mr.

Pallister) has cut the special drugs program for over 1,100 Manitobans. We know that the families of these patients have been scrambling. They have barely two months to come up –thousands of dollars for life -saving medication that they need just to stay alive. Now, we've learned from a freedom of information request that the Premier's been planning this cut since at least September of 2016. Now, he didn't tell Manitoba families about this in the last election.

They didn't tell people that they were going to get the life -saving drugs that they need taken away from them, and what is the advice that this government comes up with that we see in the freedom of info rmation document for families who are going to need these life -saving drugs? Well, it's, quote, run a tab, end quote. It shows a complete disregard for the well -being and wellness of Manitobans. Will the Premier reverse his cut to the special drugs program? Hon.

Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): Well, Madam Speaker, the member opposite, the Leader of the Opposition, knows something about running a tab. He ran a tab, the former NDP government did, of $1 billion a year for Manitobans. That tab, that deficit each and every year, was left to young people. When it comes to the special drug program we have a much better plan, and we, of course, have the Pharmacare plan, a comprehensive plan, a fair plan. In fact, there was so mebody in this House in 2006

April 5, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1015 who said that the Pharmacare program was the most comprehensive and the most fair program anywhere in Canada. That was Gary Doer, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a supplementary question. Mr. Kinew: This Doer sounds like a great guy, and just like the member from Steinbach, I can't wait for his party to get back in government. Now, Pharmacare is again– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Kinew: –a great program. Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Kinew: We should have enhanced Pharmacare– Some Honourable Members: Oh, oh. Madam Speaker: Order. The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, to continue. Mr. Kinew: Again, Pharmacare is great. We should have universal Pharmacare. We should be moving towards universal Pharmacare, and yet this government's cut to the special drugs program moves us in the opposite direction.

It is reducing coverage, and it is reducing coverage for people who are chronically ill and in some cases terminally ill, Madam Speaker. * (14:10) And what is this government's strategy for people who are terminally ill or chronically ill? Is it full universal Pharmacare coverage? Is it giving them the drugs that they need to stay alive? Is it helping them meet the affordability challenge with their life? No, it's, as these documents show, to just run a tab. Will the Premier (Mr.

Pallister) acknowledge that patients need these medications in order to stay alive and put that realization into action by reversing his cut to the special drugs program? Mr. Goertzen: Well, Madam Speaker, the Leader of the Opposition seemed to indicate that Gary Doer was coming back to lead the party. I don't know if the member for Minto (Mr. Swan) has a new secret plan, if he's organizing another rebellion, but if – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Goertzen: –if Gary Doer is coming back to lead the party, I'll be happy about one thing, Madam Speaker.

Gary Doer understood that the Pharmacare program in Manitoba is comprehensive; it's fair; it's one of the best programs, if not the best program, in all of Canada. That Leader of the Opposition has a long way before he's close to Gary Doer. Madam Speaker: The honourable Leader of the Official Opposition, on a final supplementary. Mr. Kinew: Could there be a more clear example of playing politics with a life -or-death issue? Again, we're talking about the special drugs program. We're talking about medication that people need in order to stay alive. And, you know, the Minister of Health wants to take shots.

He's perfectly within his rights to do so, but why doesn't he get back to work and enhance drug coverage for Manitobans instead of cutting it? We know that this is a v ery serious issue for the people from Diabetes Canada. They wrote the minister in February to say, with the seven short weeks' notice, in absence of prior consultation, Diabetes Canada is concerned some people will be unable to pay the required deductible. They go on to say that they've been receiving many calls from distraught individuals. This is the face of health care under this Premier .

This is the damage that is happening to people in our province. Will the minister or the Premier simply take responsibility, admit that this cut was wrong and reverse the decision? Mr. Goertzen: Madam Speaker, 98 per cent of those who have diabetes are under the Pharmacare program, and that was the case when the NDP were in government. Never once –never once– did the y raise a concern that the Pharmacare program was unfair for those individuals. More than 75 per cent of those Manitobans who are living with cystic fibrosis are under the Pharmacare program.

They were under the Pharmacare program when the NDP were in government. Never once did a member of the NDP government ever raise a concern that the Pharmacare program didn't meet their needs, Manitoba –Madam Speaker. The Pharmacare program is one of the best in Canada. It's one of the most comprehensive, it's one of t he fairest and that's why the former NDP government never said anything in detriment to it

1016 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 5, 2018 when those patients were –and they're still–under the Pharmacare program, Madam Speaker. Safe Injection Site Funding Inquiry Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): Families were relieved to see the Main Street Project propose creating a safe injection site in the old Mitchell Fabrics building. This is certainly welcomed by those struggling with addictions and their families , who understand that the harm -reduction approach will prevent overdose deaths, Madam Speaker. Unfortunately, this wasn't welcomed by the Minister of Health.

In an interview, he referenced a report which said the majority of overdoses take place at home, indicating that a downtown clinic would not help. Yet advocates say the same the report shows the large –the largest numbers of overdoses take place in the North End, Madam Speaker. Will he admit that a safe injection site may reduce the number of fatal overdoses in our province? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of Health, Seniors and Active Living): Madam Speaker, the NDP government, of course, never brought in a supervised injection site in Manitoba, and I expect it's because they had the same evidence that we have.

Certainly, when it comes to opiates, which the member references, more than 75 per cent of those who are overdosing on opiates are doing so in their home, Madam Speaker. It's a very different situation than it is in Vancouver or British Columbia, and thankfully so, because our num bers, as difficult as they are–every one is difficult–they aren't as they are in Vancouver or British Columbia. We are charged with using the dollars that we have for addictions to do so in the most effective way, following evidence, following those exper ts, who know where the money should be used.

And we continue to use an evidence -based approach, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. Johns, on a supplementary question. Ms. Fontaine: The minister can continue to make up baseless excuses about this, but front -line addiction workers know–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms. Fontaine: –but workers know the real value of safe-injection sites. The minister said he needs Manitoba -based research to prove that this is a good investme nt. Dr. Virani, a public health doctor in Alberta, says this, and I quote, is an absurd requirement.

And he goes on to say, and I quote: If we were waiting for medical and public health 'interva tion' data to be applied to every geographic location, Winnipe g would have nothing. The minister is desperately using any excuse he can find. Will the minister stop evading and just tell us if he will fund a safe-injection site? Mr. Goertzen: Madam Speaker, the member opposite seems to insinuate that the statistic s that are published in terms of overdoses in Manitoba are somehow made -up, that they're not real.

Now, certainly, not only are they real, they're tragic for every circumstance that's put in place, and I think it's a terrible thing for the member opposite to suggest that those are made-up statistics. In fact, the former government didn't publish these statistics in the way that we are. We're making them public. We're being very open in terms of the opiate overdoses because we think it's important that people have the evidence that she doesn't seem to think is real and, yes, we do believe evidence is important. She quotes an individual who says we shouldn’t be waiting for evidence.

We shouldn't have to rely on evidence. We will continue to rely on evidenc e because that's how decisions should be made, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for St. John's, on a final supplementary. Ms. Fontaine: The evidence is –for the minister –is that too many people have died in our province because of overdoses. That is the evidence, and those could have been prevented, Madam Speaker. People with addictions deserve a judgment -free space that connects them to s upport services while keeping them alive. The minister's opposition to this issue suggests he feels very differently.

Marion Willis, the director of St. Boniface Street Links says that this minister is, and I quote, ill -informed and has failed to stay, a nd, again I quote, current with the emerging issues in addiction treatment.

April 5, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1017 Manitobans want and deserve a minister that believes in progressive solutions. This minister is stuck in the past. Will he stop blocking this site and commit to funding it? Mr. Goertzen: Well it may be, Madam Speaker, that relying on evidence is an old- fashioned idea. It may be, in fact, that looking to use the funds in the most appropriate way to help the most amount of people is an old-fashioned idea.

I admit, I'm not as pr ogressive as the member opposite, who–apparently the progressive ideas they have on the NDP are to just throw money out the door without any evidence and hope that it helps people. That's what they did for many years: just shovel a bunch of money out the door while the problem gets worse. I know she's very progressive that way. I would prefer to be old- fashioned than to have that kind of progression, Madam Speaker. Government Air Services Privatization Concerns Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): It's always the same playbook from this Pallister government.

They cut, they slash, they mismanage –and I should say, Conservative government –essential services, public services. Then they try to privatize. That's what they're planning to do it seems with government ai r services. The minister didn't even know that A ir Services was an essential service, but now he is slashing tens of thousands of dollars from administration, technical support. Why is this government slashing funding for an essential service? Hon. Ron Schuler (Minister of Infrastructure): Like most Manitobans, our government wants to be a smart shopper.

We have decided that we are going to go out and we're going to test the market. We'll test it to see if the market can do better than we can as government, and then we will make the decision and we will make it based on the facts and what's best for Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a supplementary question. * (14:20) Mr. Lindsey: The government has closed airports in northern Manitoba all in its quest to slash costs. It has delayed training for pilots, left positions unfilled. Water-bombers are an essential service.

Air ambulances transport patients to hospitals when there is an emergency. In northern Manitoba these services are essential as there aren't always roads, and the government is cutting the winter road budget, too, by the way. Will the government stop its plan to privatize government air services? Mr. Schuler: Well, M adam Speaker, unlike the member opposite , who's caught in the past in ideology, we are not going to let ideology cloud our decisions. In fact, I would point out to the member that the same kind of smart shopping is being done in British Columbia –NDP Britis h Columbia.

I would like to point out to the member opposite that the same kind of smart shopping is also done in Alberta– NDP Alberta. Madam Speaker, they know how to smart shop. Why don't the NDP opposite? Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Flin Flon, on a final supplementary. Mr. Lindsey: The government is investing over a million dollars less in capital costs for government air services. It's dragging its heels on training pilots, not making the right investment to keep up its fleet, clearly cu tting and mismanaging as an excuse to privatize.

But this was studied in the 1990s when the Filmon government –what did they find out? Privatization for essential services doesn't make sense. Didn't make sense then; doesn't make sense now. When will this government cut off its ideological blinders and stop its plans to privatize government air services? Mr. Schuler: Well, Madam Speaker, I will endeavour to take the member's statements and send them to Rachel Notley so that she knows what he happens to think about her and her approach. I would, however, like to say to the member opposite, we will put our record up against theirs any day, Madam Speaker.

Not a mile, not a yard, not a foot, not an inch was ever spent on Freedom Road. Lots of talk, lots o f announcements, 17 years of talk, and, Madam Speaker, within 22 months we got Freedom Road built. We'll put our record up against theirs any day.

1018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 5, 2018 Canada Health Transfer Use of Money Received Mr. Andrew Swan (Minto): Madam Speaker, yesterday in Estimates I asked the Health Minister a very simple question: How much additional money did Manitoba receive–[interjection] Madam Speaker: The honorable member for Minto. Mr. Swan: How much additional money did Manitoba receive in Health dollars last year after reaching an agreement with the federal government? The minister wouldn't answer, but he said the Finance Minister would be able to answer that.

We know the government received a signed agreement for $399.6 million in federal funding. So I'll take the Health Minister up on his offer and I'll ask the Finance Minister: How much money did his government receive in the last year after settling the agreement with the federal government? Hon. Kelvin Goertzen (Minister of H ealth, Seniors and Active Living): Everyone wants to be the Finance Minister, Madam Speaker.

And certainly, while it is true that money from transfers does flow from the federal Department of Finance to the provincial Department of Finance, there's a stat istic that we have received from the Department of Finance, and that is that we will receive from Ottawa $2.2 billion less over the next 10 years from the federal Liberal government than we would have under the previously negotiated Canada Health Transfer agreement. That is a significant loss of funds for Manitobans. I know that the member opposite, the member for Minto , he didn't ask any questions about that yesterday in his Estimates.

He'll have an opportunity this afternoon to correct that error, that oversight so we can get to the discussion about ensuring that we have a real partner in Ottawa, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Minto, on a supplementary question. Mr. Swan: Well, a couple of weeks ago at Interim Supply, the Finance Minister confirmed that Manitoba's receiving much more fe deral money this year over last, and in fact, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Friesen) confirmed that there's more than $85.7 million in additional money coming under the Canada Health Transfer more than last year.

But the Health Minister, yesterday, could not could not tell me where any of that money was in his budget, and he then told us he was still in negotiations with the federal government. So, would the Finance Minister simply confirm for the House that every penny of additional money from the federal government under this new agreement will be spent on new health -care investments in Manitoba? Mr. Goertzen: Madam Speaker, I'm always happy to talk about the investments in health. I'm glad the member asks about them.

He didn't ask about them yesterday in Estimates, but if he would ask them in the afternoon–about the investments in Health–I'd be happy to talk to him about the 60 new full -time paramedics that this budget funds. Sixty new full-time paramedics who, by the way, are moving to self-regulation, I should add–never happened under the NDP. And in fact, the paramedic association said that those 60 new full -time paramedics was the largest, most significant investment in paramedics in the history of Manitoba. Why doesn't he ask about that? Madam Spe aker: The honourable member for Minto, on a final supplementary. Mr.

Swan: Well, Madam Speaker, I'm hoping Estimates will be more useful in this afternoon if the Minister of Health is actually going to answer questions that he believes, or believed ye sterday the Minister of Finance should answer. We know that the Province last year , on August 21st–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr. Swan: –issued a press release saying there'd be an additional $10.9 million in year for federal health funding for com mitments like home and community care and initiatives to address mental health and addictions. And in the press release it said funding began to flow to Manitoba immediately.

Strangely enough, this was a press release that was issued by the Minister of Hea lth. Yesterday he didn't seem to know if any of the money he said was coming immediately was coming or not. Could the Minister of Finance stand up and tell us: Did the money show up or not? Mr. Goertzen: Madam Speaker, I'm looking forward to the member opposite showing up for Estimates in probably about 25 minutes, and when he arrives for Estimates we're going to have lots of discussions about where money is being invested in

April 5, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1019 Manitoba when it comes to health care. And one of the key areas which he still h asn't asked about, but he'll have the opportunity in about 25 minutes, unless he wants to follow up with a supplementary question, is to ask about the reduction in ambulance fees. Under the former NDP government, those who had to call , in their most despe rate time , for an ambulance were paying more than $500. Now, after only two years it's been reduced to $340. There's more work to do. We're fulfilling our commitments.

We're responding to the priority of Manitobans, and that member still hasn't caught onto what Manitobans really care about, Madam Speaker. Investments in Education Economic and Social Benefits Ms. Cindy Lamoureux (Burrows): The future of Manitoba is looking bleak because this government is putting the future of Manitobans at risk with all the cuts they continue to make. Let's talk about education. It is one of the most important social indicators for issues, whether that be health care, justice or economic growth, just to name a few. Everyone deserves an education that will not shortchange them.

So I ask the minister: How can this government justify cutting funding to schools while enrollment continues to increase? Hon. Ian Wishart (Minister of Education and Training): I thank the member for the question. And our government is very pleased to be investing almost $50 million more than the previous government ever did in the K-to-12 system. We are also pleased to move forward with a colleges review process, something the previous government never got around to even though they were mandated to do it every five years.

And we are certainly working very constructively with post-secondary institutions to make sure that opportunities are there for all Manitoba students. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Burrows, on a supplementary question. Ms. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, I think I speak for a lot of the members here that we're gett ing sick of this government playing the blame game. They have been in government for almost two years. They have to start owning that. Madam Speaker, studies have proven that it is absolutely critical for our economic growth that investments–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Ms.

Lamoureux: –be made in human capital, education and skill s training. If this government wants to help our economy they need to improve educational outcomes. I ask the minister: Will he reconsider his short-sighted cuts to education and try using a method that's actually been proven to work? * (14:30) Mr. Wishart: I thank the member for the question.

We're certainly working very closely with both the K -to-12 system and the post -secondary to use the information that was available to the previous government, the data on student graduates , that actually helps you focus where you invest your dollars to get the best result. We're making that available to the school divisions, who have had that available for the first time ever and are very pleased to be working with that, so that they can focus their resources –which we have made more flexible–so they can focus them on getting better results. Better results are what matter.

Madam Speaker: The honourable membe r for Burrows, on a final supplementary. Ms. Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, an election commitment made from this Conservative government led teachers to believe that they would be getting assistance from this government to improve education outcomes. Instead, they got pay freezes and cuts to their schools. Madam Speaker, the most improved province is going to need an educated workforce, but apparently that's not going to happen here in Manitoba. I ask the minister: How can he justify cutting programs for schools and expect better outcomes? Mr.

Wishart: I thank the member again for the question. We're certainly looking forward to working with Manitoba teachers when it comes to a new literacy and numeracy program that'll be coming out in about a month or so, something that they were consulted broadly with, as was all sectors in terms of making

1020 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 5, 2018 improvements to get better results for Manitoba students. I know that we want a better-trained and a larger workforce of better-trained individuals, and certainly part of the college review pointed out that we, under the previous government, have lost ground against the rest of Canada in terms of the percentage of our workforce that was well trained. We're very pleased to work positively to get better results for Manitobans. Madam Speaker: The–[interjection] Order. The honourable member for Southdale. Alert Ready System Public Awareness Test Mr.

Andrew Smith (Southdale): We on this side of the House believe that public safety is paramount to Manitobans and remains a top priority for our government. Recently, there was an important announcement regarding a new system that will greatly enhance the public safety of Manitobans. To ensure that we're all well informed on this initiative, can the Minister of Infrastructure please update the Assembly on what this will mean for the constituents of Southdale and for all Manitobans? Hon.

Ron Schuler (Minister of Infrastructure): Well, Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Southdale for that question because last week, our government announced that the Alert Ready system will be expanded from traditional means like TV and radio to the more modern cell phones and smart phones. This new system will be tested on May the 9th at 1:55 p.m. Madam Speaker , a gain, May the 9th at 1:55 p.m. with a distinct sound and vibration. Please do not be alarmed; it's just a test. If you are driving, please pull over safely, park your vehicle, check t he message. Madam Speaker, our government's all about safety.

We'll continue to do so. Lake St. Martin Road Access Contract Tendering Process Mr. Jim Maloway (Elmwood): Madam Speaker, the Minister of Infrastructure misled the public about the Lake St. Martin outlet channel access road. He said it was tendered, but it turned out it wasn't. Then, the minister hid the details about the contract for weeks. Only after the m edia began investigating did the minister post the details. Why has the minister continuously misled the public about this sole-source contract? Hon.

Ron Schuler (Minister of Infrastructure): For 17 years we had an NDP government that loved to talk about the Lake Manitoba channels and they talked and they talked until 2011, and catastrophe hit, Madam Speaker. Then, did they do anything about the channels? No, they continued to talk. Madam Speaker, we were so secretive. We went to the Forks, had a press conference, announced that we're going to proceed with it. The member should maybe check the news releases once in a while that government sends out. We were public and open and transparent when we made that announcement.

Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Elmwood, on a supplementary question. Mr. Maloway: Several local contractors have calculated that the price of this contract is 70 per cent, minimum, over what should be expected for t his kind of arrangement. It's shocking that the minister concealed this sole -source contract and its details. Madam Speaker, will the minister now admit that the sole -source contract is not the bargain he says it is, but rather a 70 per cent padding of a contract to friends that should have been tendered? Mr.

Schuler: Well, Madam Speaker, if the member would like, he could go up and talk to the First Nations who were terribly impacted by the 2011 flood, who lost their homes, their personal possessions, their family photos. They lost everything in that flood, and to them, those contracts were given. Now, if he believes that there's something untoward to giving those individuals some hope as they return home, maybe he should go up there and should talk to them once in a while. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Elmwood, on a final supplementary. Mr. Maloway: There is no current emergency.

This minister could have tendered those contracts, and he still can do that. Madam Speaker, the recipients of t his sole-source contract turn out to be party donors to the PC Party as well as donors to the campaign for the

April 5, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1021 member for Interlake (Mr. Johnson). That member, the member for Interlake, has sat on Treasury Board since August 17th of last year. So, I ask the minister again, for the second time: Did the MLA for Interlake recuse himself from consideration of this sole-source contract at Treasury Board meetings? Mr. Schuler: Well, Madam Speaker, one would never accuse the member for Elmwood from not necessarily doing all his homework, although he didn't this time. Those contracts were given to First Nations communities, and they chose their partners.

I would like to point out to members opposite, unlike when they were in government, we allow our public servants to give those tenders out. They are the ones that do the actual work on it, unlike when the NDP were in office when t iger tube deals were given to friends and donors. Our government will never endeavour to do something like that. It was done through the department, Madam Speaker, and it was given to our First Nations. Fish Supply Safety Concerns Mr.

Rob Altemeyer (Wolseley): So just to close out that last chapter, the tendered contracts which were then revealed not to have been tendered contracts are now apparently tendered contracts again. I have to tune into question period next week and we'll see what the next episode brings. On a slightly different topic, Madam Speaker, the former minist er for Sustainable Development – [interjection] Madam Speaker: Order. Mr.

Altemeyer: –wrote her infamous dear fishers letter in March of last year which indicated, quote, enforcement prior ities of our conservation officers are shifted away from tracking down fish exports, effective immediately. Can the current minister tell us if there's any – been any negative consequences to that decision? Hon. Rochelle Squires (Minister of Sustainable Development): I thank the member opposite for that question.

In regards to enhancing our fisheries and in making sure that we have a sustainable fishery for anglers and fishers, as well as making sure that we have a sustainable fish stock in all of our lakes, is an incredible challenge, but it is one that we are certainly rising to the task. And we are working with all the fishers and the fisheries throughout Manitoba to make sure that we have markets for our fish products and that we are ensuring that w e've got a sustainable fish stock in our lakes. Madam Speaker: The honourable member for Wolseley, on a supplementary question. Mr.

Altemeyer: I dare say, Madam Speaker, that markets for our fish products are going to be severely threatened if the food safety of those food markets is threatened. I would like to table today a report, a public report, that fish from Manitoba was shipped out of the country in fertilizer containers which had at the bottom of them, quote, a brown, sloppy liquid. * (14:40) This is the direct result of this government's decision to allow a private fish dealer to conduct himself in such a way that the food supply in perhaps Canada and the United States has been put at risk. When did the minister learn about this?

What has she done with that information to protect the food supply? Ms. Squires: We are working with our federal counterparts. The CFIA is very much involved in ensuring that products are shipped safely and securely and in appropriate containers outside of our markets. So we are working with the CFIA, which has the lead on this. And ensure –and in terms of working with our fisheries, we're very pleased that a lot of our fishers are receiving record -high prices for many of our species; 18 per cent increases on walleye, new markets for white fish.

Manitoba lakes are open for business, unlike what occurred under members opposite, where the monopoly had told fishers to dump white fish back in the lakes. We are open for business and supporting our fisheries. Madam Speaker : The time for oral questions has expired. PETITIONS Vimy Arena Hon. Steven Fletcher (Assiniboia): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly.

1022 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 5, 2018 The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The residents of Assiniboia, St. James, greater Winnipeg area and Manitoba are concerned with the intention expressed by the City of Winnipeg to use the Vimy Arena site–[interjection] Madam Speaker: Order, please. Mr. Fletcher: –as an addictions treatment facility. The Vimy Arena site is in the middle of a residential area near many schools, churches, community clubs and senior homes, and the City has not considered better suited locations in rural, semi-rural or industrial locations such as St. Boniface industrial park or the 20,0 00 acres at CentrePort.

(3) The City of Winnipeg has indicated that the Vimy Arena site will be rezoned from park to commercial use to accommodate the addiction treatment facility and has not sought input from the community to consider better uses for the facility consistent with a residential area.

(4) The provincial licensing system is akin to that of a dentist's office and is clearly insufficient for the planned use of the site by the city and the province. The proposed rezoning changes the fundamental nature of the community, zoned as a park area. The concerns of the residents of St. James regarding the safety, property values and the way of life are not being properly addressed.

(6) The people of St. James are largely hard-working, blue collar, middle -class citizens who are family-oriented toward children and seniors and do not have the financial resources of some other neighbourhoods. This type of facility would never be considered for the popular Assiniboine Park nor for Heubach park, the park between Park Blvd. E ast and Park Blvd. West, even though it shares the same zoning designation as the Vimy Arena site. The City and the Province would be setting a dangerous precedent with this, quote, unquote, process that could put other neighbourhoods at risk for future unwanted development without proper consultation.

(9) The Province needs to be inclusive in its decision-making process and improve its programs to prevent drug abuse and better supervise the provision of drug prescriptions that could lead to addictive behaviour. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to take the necessary steps to ensure that the Vimy Arena site is not used for an addiction treatment facility. I present this on behalf of Barry Garrett, Arlene [phonetic] Garrett, Tracy Caton and many others.

Madam Speaker: The member has not read the petition as printed, and I would ask, is there leave to accept the petition as printed? [Agreed] TO THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA: The background to this petition is as follows: 1. The residents of Assiniboia, St. James, greater Winnipeg area and Manitoba are concerned with the intention expressed by the City of Winnipeg (City) to use the Vimy Arena site as an addictions treatment facility. 2.

The Vimy Arena site is in the middle of a residential area near many schools, churches, community clubs and senior homes and the City has not considered better suited locations in rural, semi-rural or industrial locations such as St. Boniface i ndustrial park or the 20,000 acres at Centre Port. 3. The City of Winnipeg has indicated that the Vimy Arena site will be rezoned from park to commercial use to accommodate the addiction treatment facility and has not sought public input from the community to consider better uses for this facility consistent with a residential area. 4.

The provincial licensing system is akin to that as of a dentist’s office and is clearly insufficient for the planned use of the site by the city and the province. 5. The proposed rezoning changes the funda mental nature of the community, zoned as a park area, and the concern of residents of St. James regarding safety, property values, and their way of life are not being properly addressed. 6. The people of St. James are largel y hard-working, blue collar, and middle class citizens who are family-oriented toward children and seniors, and do not have the financial resources of other neighborhoods.

April 5, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1023 7. This type of facility would never be considered for the popular Assiniboine par k nor for Heubach Park (park between Park Blvd. east and west) even though it shares the same zoning designation as the Vimy Arena site. 8. The City and province would be setting a dangerous precedent with this "process" that could put other neighbourhoods at risk for future unwanted development without proper consultation. 9.

The province needs to be inclusive in the decision making process and improve its programs to prevent drug abuse and better supervise the provision of drug prescriptions that could l ead to addictive behaviour. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the Provincial Government to take the necessary steps to ensure that the Vimy Arena site is not used for an addiction treatment facility. Madam Speaker: In ac cordance with our rule 133(6), when petitions are read they are deemed to be received by the House. Further petitions? Tina Fontaine–Public Inquiry Mrs.

Bernadette Smith (Point Douglas): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. These are the reasons for this petition.

(1) Tina Fontaine was murdered at the age of 15 years old, and her body was found in the Red River on August 17, 2014.

(2) Tina Fontaine was robbed of her loving family and the Anishinabe community of Sagkeeng First Nation.

(3) Tina Fontaine was failed by multiple systems which did not protect her as they intervened in her life.

(4) Tina Fontaine was further failed by systems meant to seek and pursue justice for her murder.

(5) Tina Fontaine's murder galvanized Canada on the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls as she quickly became our collective daughter and the symbol of MMIWG across Canada.

(6) Manitoba has failed to fully implement the recommendations of numerous reports and recommendations meant to improve and protect the lives of indigenous peoples and children, including the Manitoba Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples and the Phoenix Sinclair inquiry. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Premier of Manitoba and the Minister of Justice to immediately call a public inquiry into the systems that had a role in the life and death of Tina Fontaine, as well as the function of the administration of justice after her death.

(2) To urge that the terms of reference of a public inquiry be developed jointly with the caregivers of Tina Fontaine and/or the agency appointed by them. Signed by Raven Rickner, Jasmine Smith, Carrie Lacnus [phonetic] and many other Manitobans. Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (St. Johns): I wish to present the following petition to the Legislative Assembly. The reason –these are the reasons for this petition.

(1) Tina Fontaine wa s murdered at the age of 15 years old, and her body was found in the Red River on August 17, 2014.

(2) Tina Fontaine was robbed of her loving family and the Anishinabe community of Sagkeeng First Nation.

(3) Tina Fontaine was failed by multiple systems which did not protect her as they intervened in her life.

(4) Tina Fontaine was further failed by systems meant to seek and pursue justice for her murder.

(5) Tina Fontaine's murder galvanized Canada on the issue of missing and murdered indigenous women and girls, MMIWG, as she quickly became our collective daughter and the symbol for MMIWG across Canada.

(6) Manitoba has failed to fully implement the recommendations of numerous reports and recommendations meant to improve and protect the lives of indigenous peoples and children, including the Manitoba Aboriginal Justice Inquiry, Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples and the Phoenix Sinclair inquiry.

1024 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 5, 2018 We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows:

(1) To urge the Premier of Manitoba and the Minister of Justice to 'immediacly' –immediately call a public inquiry into the systems that had a role in the life and death of Tina Fontaine, as well as the function of the administration of justice after her death.

(2) To urge that the terms of reference of a public inquiry be developed jointly with the caregivers of Tina Fontaine and/or the agent appointed by them. Signed by Alenna Mark, Indira Cortes and Megan Fry. Medical Laboratory Services Hon. Jon Gerrard (River Heights): Madam Speaker, I wish to present the following petition to the Legislature. The background to this petition is as follows:

(1) The provision of laboratory services to medical clinics and physicians' offices has been historically, and continues to be, a private sector service.

(2) It is vitally important that there be competition in laboratory services to allow medical clinics to seek solutions from more than one provider to control costs and to improve service for health professionals and patients. * (14:50) Under the present provincial government, Dynacare, an Ontario -based subsidiary of a US company, has acquired Unicity labs, resulting in a monopoly situation for the provision of laboratory services in medical clinics and physicians' offices. With the creation of this monopoly there has been the closure of many laboratories by Dynacare in and around the city of Winnipeg.

Since the acquisition of Unicity labs, Dynacare has made it more difficult for some medical offices by changing the collection schedules of patie nts' specimens and charging some medical offices for collection services. These closures have created a situation where a great number of patients are less well -served, having to travel significant distances in some cases, waiting considerable periods of time and sometimes being denied or having to leave without obtaining lab services.

The situation is particularly critical for patients requiring fasting blood draws, as they may experience complications that could be life-threatening based on their individual health situations. Furthermore, Dynacare has instructed that all patients requiring immediate results, STAT's patients, such as patients with suspicious internal infections, be directed to its King Edward location. This creates unnecessary obstacles for the patients who are required to travel to that lab rather than simply collecting the test in their doctor's office.

This new directive by Dynacare presents a direct risk to patients' health. This has further resulted in patients opting to visit emerg ency rooms rather than travelling twice, which increases cost to the public health-care system. Medical clinics and physicians' offices service thousands of patients in their communities and have structured their offices to provide a one -stop service, acting as a health -care front line that takes off some of the load from emergency rooms.

The creation of this monopoly has been problematic to many medical clinics and physicians, hampering their ability to provide high- quality and complete service to their patients due to closures of so many laboratories. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: To urge the provincial government to request Dynacare to reopen the closed laboratories or allow Diagnostic Services of Manitoba to freely open labs in clinics which formerly housed labs that have been shut down by Dynacare.

To urge the provincial government to ensure high-quality lab services for patients and a level playing field and competition in the provision of laboratory services to medical offices. To urge the provincial government to address this matter immediately in the interest of better patient-focused care and improved support for health professionals. Signed by Benjamin Waschuk, Steve Kotz, Joyce Murphy and many others. Madam Spe aker: The member has not read the petition as printed. Is there leave to accept the petition as printed? [Agreed]

April 5, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1025 TO THE LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA: The background to this petition is as follows: 1. The provision of laboratory services to medical clinics and physicians' offices has been historically, and continues to be, a private sector service. 2. It is vitally important that there be competition in laboratory services to allow medical clinics to seek solutions from more than one provider to cont rol costs and to improve service for health professionals and patients. 3.

Under the present Provincial Government, Dynacare, an Ontario- based subsidiary of a U.S. company, has acquired Unicity Labs, resulting in a monopoly situation for the provision of l aboratory services in medical clinics and physicians' offices. 4. With the creation of this monopoly, there has been the closure of many laboratories by Dynacare in and around the city of Winnipeg. Since the acquisition of Unicity Labs, Dynacare has made i t more difficult for some medical offices by changing the collection schedules of patients' specimens and charging some medical offices for collection services. 5.

These closures have created a situation where a great number of patients are less well served, having to travel significant distances in some cases, waiting considerable periods of time and sometimes being denied or having to leave without obtaining lab services. The situation is particularly critical for patients requiring fasting blood draws, as they may experience complications that could be life threatening based on their individual health situations. 6.

Furthermore, Dynacare has instructed that all patients requiring immediate results (STAT's patients, such as patients with suspicious internal infections) be directed to its King Edward location. This creates unnecessary obstacles for the patients who are required to travel to that lab rather than simply completing the test in their doctor's office. This new directive by Dynacare presents a direct risk to patients' health. This has further resulted in patients opting to visit emergency rooms rather than traveling twice, which increases cost to the public health care system. 7.

Medical clinics and physicians' offices service thousands of patients in their communities and have structured their offices to provide a one-stop service, acting as a healthcare front line that takes off some of the load from emergency rooms. The creation of this monopoly has been problematic to many medical clinics and physicians, hampering their ability to provide high quality and complete service to their patients due to closures of so many laboratories. We petition the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba as follows: 1.

To urge the Provincial Government to request Dynacare to reopen the closed laboratories or allow Diagnostic Services of Manitoba to freely open labs in clinics which formerly housed labs that have been shut down by Dynacare. 2. To urge the Provincial Government to ensure high quality lab services for patients and a level playing field and competition in the provision of laboratory services to medical offices. 3. To urge the Provincial Government to address this matter immediately in the interest of better patient focused care and improved support for health professionals. Madam Speaker: Grievances?

ORDERS OF THE DAY (Continued) House Business Ms. Nahanni Fontaine (Official Opposition House Leader): Pursuant to rule 33(8), I am announcing that the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Thursday of private members' business will be one put forward by the honourable member for Concordia (Mr. Wiebe). The title of the resolution is Provincial Government Cuts to Education Hurts Manitoba Students.

Madam Speaker: Pursuant to rule 33(8), it has been announced that the private member's resolution to be considered on the next Thursday of private members' business will be one put forward by the honourable member for Concordia. The title of the resolution is Provincial Government Cuts to Education Hurt Manitoba Students. GOVERNMENT BUSINESS Hon. Cliff Cullen (Government House Leader): Would you kindly canvass the House for leave to alter the Estimates sequence for today only so that the Department of Infras tructure will be considered in room 255 instead of Executive Council?

Madam Speaker: Is there leave to alter the Estimates sequence for today only so that the

1026 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 5, 2018 Department of Infras tructure will be considered in room 255 instead of Executive Council? Agreed? [Agreed] So, it has been announced that the House will consider Estimates this–oh. Oh, okay. Mr. Cullen: I thank the members of the Chamber for the consideration. I would ask that you call Committee of Supply. Madam Speaker: It has now been announced that the House will consider Estimates this afternoon. The House will now resolve itself into Committee of Supply. Mr. Deputy Speaker, please take the Chair.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY (Concurrent Sections) GROWTH, ENTERPRISE AND TRADE * (15:00) Madam Chairperson (Sarah Guillemard): Will the Committee of Supply please come to order. This

section of the Committee of Supply will now resume consideration of the Estimates for the Department of Growth, Enterprise and Trade. As previously agreed, questioning for this department will proceed in a global manner. The floor is now open for questions. Mr. Tom Lindsey (Flin Flon): I guess we'll probably start with some follow -up from yesterday's discussions. The minister had given some examples yesterday of organizations that ha ve seen their funding frozen or reduced.

Can the minister undertake to provide me a list of organizations that received grant money from the department for the last year and this year's budget? I'd like to see the budgeted amount and the actual amounts pro vided for last year as well as how much he has budgeted these organizations for this year. Hon. Blaine Pedersen (Minister of Growth, Enterprise and Trade): So that would be for 2017-18 and then what's budgeted for '18-19. Mr. Lindsey: Yes. Mr. Pedersen: Okay. We can provide that. We can get that list for you. We don't have it here right now, but we will get that list for you.

But, while I have the floor, Madam Chair, staff has worked up some numbers for you in–from yesterday. You were askin g for FTEs by division in the department, and we have that for 2016-17, '17-18 and '18 -19. And then we have vacancy rates for '18-19 by division. So I will –do I need to read this into Hansard? [interjection] No? I can just –I believe I can just indicate that I've handed it over to the member and if he has any more questions, we'll certainly endeavour to answer them. Mr. Lindsey: I thank the minister for providing that information so promptly.

Clearly, I'll need a little bit of time to look it over before I have more questions. So I'm sure we will come back to that at some point in time. Where was I now? I'd like to return to a question from yesterday. The minister said there were 400.3 FTEs in the department in '16 -17, and this year he's projecting 341. And then he said at current this is a 12 per cent vacancy rate currently in his department, which is about another 41 jobs vacant. Do I have the numbers correct? Mr. Pedersen: Approximately 40. Mr.

Lindsey: So that would seem to be about 25 per cent of the positions of the minister's department has either been cut or are currently vacant since this government's first budget. Is that correct? Mr. Pedersen : So there has been a reduction of 58 FTEs over the past two years, which is approximately 14 per cent reduction. And I just kind of caution the member when he's talking about vacancy rates, although it is about 12 per cent right now vacancy rate, it does fluctuate. It's a snapshot in time. Over the long term, it runs about 8 per cent; currently it's 12 per cent.

And it's just–when you take that one snapshot it's right there now. But it's –and we're working hard to fill those positions. Mr. Lindsey: So you're suggesting that the 25 per cent reduction in positions that I've talked about is not the correct number? Mr. Pedersen: We're looking at–again, I just repeat that we're looking at about a reduction of 58 FTEs, which is about 14 per cent. Now, if you want to add 14 per cent reduction and a 12 per cent current vacancy rate to get 26 per cent, if tha t's the number you're getting to –but I think you have to–and I believe we talked about this yesterday.

We have to separate staff reductions with vacancy rate. They're not the same. Every business, every government

April 5, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1027 department, including this, has a vacancy rate. So that should not be added on top of reductions in order to look at a larger reduction in a workforce, because if we were at full complement, if we had zero vacancy rate we would be reduced by 14 per cent which is those 58 FTEs. So I just caution you not to add the two numbers together to get a larger percentage. Mind you, if you wanted to do that, you can; it's just –we'll just agree to disagree on that. Mr.

Lindsey: You–if you start off with a 8 per cent vacancy rate, you get rid of 14 per cent and still have 8 per cent, 12 per cent. I mean, I'm not going to quibble that the vacancy rate you talk about, it could be 8 per cent, could be 12 per cent. But, really, the total number is the additive number. Since you've taken office that 14 per cent of the vacancy rate is 14 per cent of people –14 per cent of positions have gone, and year over year you've averaged still 8 to 12 per cent. So in total there's more than just the 14 per cent. It may not be 25, but it's something more than 14. Mr.

Pedersen : If the member would go back over the last 17–and I guess we can talk 19 years almost, now–there's always been a vacancy rate averaging around 8 per cent. It will fluctuate higher and lower. My staff is telling me that just yesterday they got notice of a pe rson putting in notice to resign, totally unexpected. So that's what vacancy rates are all about. We are actively –you must separate out the 14 per cent. The 58 FTEs are gone; they are not coming back. But that 12 per cent vacancy rate that we've got rig ht now, we are actively looking to hire people in there.

So it is not the same as a reduction in staff. We are not purposely leaving those positions vacant. What we found when we came into government that there was a large number of vacancy rates, and if you were familiar with how budgets run, if you wanted to inflate your department to have money to use elsewhere, you would keep those vacancy rates high in order to have that money allocate, because once a position is allocated there's a budget there. * (15:10) We're not doing that. We are using–we have reduced FTEs. We are not going to replace that reduction of 58 FTEs. It's a move to streamline government.

And then we have besides that–a totally separate issue –is the vacancy rate. And we are actively trying to fill those positions. We need those positions filled and we will continue to work on that. I don't know how to describe it any clearer. If you want to run out and combine the two and message it however you want, that's your prerogative, but I've told you what exactly is happening in the department. Mr. Lindsey: Thank you, Madam Chair. It's not about running out and saying something; it's trying to understand and clarify.

So if traditionally –all the way through–the vacancy r ate has been 8 per cent, 12 per cent–bounces somewhere in that range whether we're talking the last year, or two years, or five years, or ten years –if that vacancy rate has always remained around that point. But you say you're actively trying to fill those positions. Then next year, would we expect the vacancy rate to go down to 3, 4 per cent? Or is going to remain, still, in the 8 per cent range? Mr. Pedersen: Well, I would be more than happy to come back and tell you that our vacancy rate next year is 3 per cent.

That's what we're going to try for, but whether we can achieve that, given retirements – given the Baby Boomer population, there is a large number of retirements happening. It is getting in every business, go out and talk to every business out there, they're having tr ouble replacing workers, whether they retire, whether they move to –you know. We also know, I guess. I'll try to explain this: there is no loyalty in the workforce anymore. It used to be there was a person would get a career and they would stay there for 30 years. You should know this, but I'll explain it anyway.

Nowadays, my children's generation, who are in their 30s, they will have –the average career is five different careers. So people move, whether it's from the civil service, whether it's from private business, they move around. So government is no different than private industry on this. There is a vacancy rate out –go talk to any business out there that's looking to recruit workers. They have a vacancy rate. We will endeavour to reduce our overall vacancy rate from the current 8 per cent and we will do o ur level best.

We need those people in a department to keep the department working to achieve the goals that we have set for the department. Mr. Lindsey: Thank you for your answer, and trust me, I would dearly love if people could have a career

1028 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 5, 2018 that they didn't have to continually move around. Unfortunately, that's not the world that any of us live in at the moment. Just looking at the chart that you've just given me, where it talks about the adjustment. So 2016- 17, there was 400 and then there's an adjustment of 55.5. Was that part of a budgetary process or did it happen mid-stream? Mid -year, that it wasn't part of the budgeted? Madam Chairperson: Before I recognize the minister, I'd like to remind all members to direct your comments through the Chair.

It helps for a more respectful conversation, thank you. Mr. Pedersen: It's a budget process. Mr. Lindsey: So all of those 55 that disappeared, that was included in the 2016- 17 budget? It wasn't a number that happened after the budget was released, it wasn't a mid-year reduction in workforce, it wasn't projected in your budget–in the budget? Mr. Pedersen : So, over the last two years, these 58 FTEs have been reduced through the budget process. Budgets were set. The 58 FTEs were identified over the past two years as part of the budget process. Mr. Lindsey: Thank you for that. Let's see.

So you had said that an economic development strategy will be coming at some point in the months ahead. I was wondering, could you share a rough timeline when you think that economic development strategy might be available? Mr. Pedersen: As I mentioned yesterday, the public consultations are getting under way with Dave Angus and Barb Gamey, and that is scheduled right now to wrap up by the end of April. Again, we're keeping those dates a little bit open because if there's an overwhelming desire for more input from them we would certainly look to extend it somewhat. But we also know we need to wrap this up.

They'll bring in their report. And I can't give you a firm date as to when we will publicly release our economic development strategy, but we would expect by summer sometime. We know we need to get it done because we're already working on next year's budget. The budget process never stops. So we need to know where our economic development programs will be so that we can again then start putting them into the budget process going forward. So we're –we want to do it as quickly as possible, but at the same time, we want to make sure we get it right. Mr.

Lindsey: The reason that I'm somewhat concerned is that both the money in this department and the staffing that might support the economic development strategy have been reduced for this year, right. Is it the intention to increase funding in year–is it the intention to increase funding in year-to-year support a new economic development strategy, or will the department be working with existing resources? * (15:20) Mr. Pedersen: Well, Madam Chair, through you to the member.

What the member is attempting to do is prejudge the outcome of the consultations, and that's –they're– that defeats the purpose of having consultations if we've already 'prejud'. We have not prejudged what the economic development budget shall look like or the roll out of it or whatever. We want to get this public consultation in as soon as possible so that then we can begin to work on an economic development program. We are not prejudging the outcome of this to– I cannot tell you right now –I can –sorry, I'll correct myself. I can tell you right now that we wi ll not prejudge the outcome in terms of budget. Mr.

Lindsey: So then I'm to assume that if the consultation process suggests that you need to add money to the budget, you need to add money to the existing pool in year to reach your goals, that you're not opposed to doing that. Otherwise, you would, in fact, be prejudging the outcome if you're saying, well, it doesn't matter what they come up with. They only have this much money to spend. Mr. Pedersen : You can make all the assumptions you want. We're not working on assumptions. Mr.

Lindsey: I'm just asking the minister if he, in fact, is opposed to the idea or in favour of the idea if the consultation process suggests that more money needs to be directed to the economic development strategy, that he will n ot force the strategy to stay within the existing budgetary confines, but will commit existing funds if that's what the strategy suggests should be done. Mr. Pedersen: You can ask the question 17 different ways, it doesn't matter. I will not prejudge the economic development outreach that we've got right now. We need to see what we –for feedback what we

April 5, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1029 get in order to develop a new strategic economic development plan for the entire province. Mr. Lindsey: I'll try once more, because it seems that if you're not prepared to make a commitment to increase the funding, if and only if that's what your budget or your consultation process suggests, then, in fact, the process is prejudged because it can only operate within the confines of the existing dollars.

If the minister is prepared to suggest that new dollars could be added if that's what's determined to be required, then that's in fact not prejudging the system; that's allowing the system to determine what the dollars need be to achieve the goal. Mr. Pedersen: The public consultations being done by Dave Angus and Barb Gamey are open to the public. I would suggest to the member that he make a presentation to the public presentations to lobby for whatever he is asking for or presuming that the outcome should be. I would really encourage him to do a presentation to them.

We are not prescribing what they shall say, do. We are open to what the public has to say about this and then we will make our decisions based on the public presentations. Mr. Lindsey: So the dep artment has previously frozen funds for economic development. Now it's been cut. Yet the minister suggests that there may be money in the future, although he certainly has not committed any money for the future, depending on the outcome of this consultation process. So I'm left to assume, then, that that money might be in 2019-2020 if there is any increase in budget for the economic development.

I believe that the minister had previously said something about raid, raid, and then have a parade. And I'm wondering, now that he's starved the economic development initiatives for years, will there be more resources for economic of – development purposes just before the next election? Mr. Pedersen : Now, I know about the steady growth signs by the previous government, how these signs miraculously sprung up all over the country. There was always steady growth signs, but there was never any signs of steady growth.

So, you know, if he thinks that we're going to take a page from the NDP playbook where you hold money back–in fact, we're even concerned about the federal government doing that right now, about holding back money just before an election. We believe in the economy, that the economy will drive this province, and we're going to do what's best for the economy, not what's best for how we get re - elected, unlike the NDP who did that year in and year out, where they saved –raid, raid, raid, and then there was the parade. He was absolutely correct; that's what the NDP did, and I'm glad he's quoting what the NDP did.

They were masters at that, and we will not do that. Mr. Lindsey: I don't know if I should be happy or sad with that answer, because that would tel l me that he's not planning to increase any funding for economic development going forward, which is too bad. But let's move on. Can the minister tell me how much the Province's funding was for Research Manitoba in 2016-2017 and how much he's planning to provide for Research Manitoba this year? Mr. Pedersen : I can provide those numbers.

It was approximately $17 million in 2016- 17; it was $15 million and change in 2017- 18 and it is now budgeted at $12 million and change for '18-19. And I might add that we've–we have met a number of times, including a couple of weeks ago– yes, it was two weeks ago –we met with Research Manitoba. They are working very well with us. We've worked with –on administration costs with them, and they are continuing to do their programming.

I should add, I encourage all members and everyone in attendance in the room today that Research Manitoba will be in the Rotunda at 5 o'clock today showing off the research that they are doing in many different facets of our economy, and they will continue to do great work. Mr. Lindsey: So that would appear to be, to me at least, quite a significant in reduction for funding for Research Manitoba. Could you–could the minister explain just why Research Manitoba has seen their funding cut by such a large amount? * (15:30) Mr.

Pedersen: I think what's important to recognize, too, is that we were funding over 83 different agencies. I believe we went through this yesterday. Some of these agencies were going to various departments and topping up money from different departments. All our economic development agencies have seen reductions and Research Manitoba is no different from the other agencies. Research Manitoba was one of the –was the largest individual

1030 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 5, 2018 organization, and that's why it looks –and it is significant, the reduction to them, but as a percentage-wise, it is not as high as other agencies and we, like I said, we continue to work with Research Manitoba and they continue to do great work. Mr. Lindsey: Would the minister comment, perhaps, on whether he thinks that great work will continue or will they struggle to do some of that great work with reduced funding that's been proposed? Mr. Pedersen: No. Their work is continuing. There's no doubt about it.

Again, I encourage the member and all members and the public, really, to be in the rotunda tonight and you'll see some of the great work that they're continuing to do in different facets –just give me half a moment; I'll even tell you about some of the great things that they're doing in diffe rent– what they call a world -class research event. They are doing research in–improves health outcomes, building materials for infrastructure, clean energy that combats climate change. That's just a few of the things that they're into.

They do a lot of dif ferent research and they are continuing to do that research and we have very good relations with them and they are fully committed to continuing to do the great work they do. Mr. Lindsey: I'm sure that their intention is to continue the great work, but it seems to me that it's going to become somewhat more difficult for them to carry on the good work they do if the funding level continually decreases. You've said that several of these agencies were getting funding from other departments. Perhaps you could tell me which other departments Research Manitoba is getting funding from. Mr.

Pedersen : Research Manitoba has been very successful in leveraging money from the private sector, from the federal government, and they are continuing to do this, but, you know, the member talks–speaks that there's –what he doesn't take into account, that there's a l ot of other things that affect Research Manitoba. A higher PST affected Research Manitoba. Broadening the PST affected Research Manitoba. The lack of raising basic personal exemption affects everyone who worked at Research Manitoba.

There's a lot more at p lay in every organization and every person in Manitoba than how much money the government grants to them, and the member is–seems to be rather fixated on the idea that the only source of money is from government. There is a lot more out there in Manitoba than just the Manitoba government, and as we've seen, we are working–we are struggling with a crippling debt in Manitoba that we need to reduce in order to make life even more affordable for Manitobans, including the people and the organizations, the people who work at Research Manitoba and the organizations such as Research Manitoba.

So they will continue to operate. It is not entirely contingent on how much money they get from GET, Growth, Enterprise and Trade. So there are lots of other factors at play and the good folks who are running organizations like Research Manitoba understand that, and that's why we can sit down at the same table and talk to them and work out how they're going to be moving forward in the future. Mr.

Lindsey: So, just to be clear, when the minister had suggested that this group, Research Manitoba, as he suggested, all or many of the other entities funded by Growth, Enterprise and Trade have been getting funding from elsewhere in this government, that's not really the case in the Research Manitoba. they got their funding from Growth, Enterprise and Trade. There was no other funding from a different department, is that correct? Mr. Pedersen: Just to correct the assumption again that the member made. I did not say all agencies were tapping into other departments.

I said some agencies were, and I'll give you a couple of examples of agencies who were–funding was reduced from GET to them. One of them is called Futurpreneur, and they went out –they had a funding reduction, but they went out and found other sources to match what was–what they were getting from us previously, and there's–very successful at helping young people. They focus on young people starting businesses and they've been very successful. Another organization that saw reduced funding from us, and I mentioned this yesterday, is Canadian Manufacturers & Exporters.

They have gone out and found other sources of money, private sources of money to replace money, grant money, that was coming from government, because they realize, as all these organizations realize, that it's not a bottomless pit when it comes to government money, contrary to the way the member wants to think that there is a bottomless pit from government that it just keeps throwing more money out the door every day. And we don't do that. We're going to be fiscally responsible to all Manitobans and fiscally responsible to these organizations, too, because they have realized that they have to be fiscally

April 5, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1031 responsible, and that's why they've gone out and asked for money. Mr. Lindsey: So there was no other Manitoba government source of funding for Research Manitoba; it's merely through Growth, Enterprise and Trade? Mr. Pedersen: Not that we're aware of. Mr. Lindsey: Cooperative Development also saw a reduction this year, and, again, I'm wondering if the minister can give me somewhat of an overview of what that division's activities are. * (15:40) Mr.

Pedersen : So the Cooperative Development branch encourages a formation of new co -operatives and maintenance of existing co- operatives by providing information and advisory services to new and existing co-operatives. So they provide information, advisory service, assistance regarding the formation and operation of co-operatives, research prospective co -operative models in the relation and adaptation to Manitoba environment, supports Cooperative Loans and Loans Guarantee Board, co-operative community strategies, steering committee and working groups and co-operative assistance fund.

So this is to help co-ops, whether they're forming a new co -operative or the maintenance of existing co-operatives, and I can tell the member that a lifetime ago I was part of an organization that did get a small grant from this. It'd be under the NDP regime, because I'm trying to think of when it was. It was probably around 1990 that we formed a feeder cattle co -operative and we got a small grant from there and –interesting, because we financed it ourselves. There was about 15 of us that financed it. We lent money out to cattle producers to borrow money to feed–to buy feeder cattle.

There was about a dozen of us at the time when our manager absconded with about $120,000 out of our co-operative, and all 12 of us signed $10,000 cheques and replaced it rather than going back to the co-operative fund that would have picked up the loss –or actually Manitoba government would have picked up the loss. So that's true entrepreneurship. Mr. Lindsey: That's nice. So how close to budget did the Cooperative Development come in 2017-2018? Mr. Pedersen: The results aren't in yet. They're still being audited and the final results will be in in the fall of 2018. Mr.

Lindsey: It appears that the Cooperative Development was actually si gnificantly over budget in 2016- 2017 due to loan provisions. So could you just explain what that is and how that works? Mr. Pedersen : In 2016- 17 there was a $1.643-million provision, loan provision put in the budget that had to be put in because in previous years when there was a loan provision put, given there, it was not on the books. There was a –money budgeted for a loan provision but it was not entered into the b ooks and it had to be entered because that provision was still standing.

So that's why it showed up in '16-17, when it should have been done several years before. Mr. Lindsey: So the adjusted budget line for that division was 601–I think that's million; today it's 360. So that's been pretty much cut in half. Can the minister, then, explain what services or what else has been reduced to achieve this? Mr. Pedersen: So, under Cooperative Development, the estimate, the budget amount for '16 -17 was $421,000.

T he actual then for 2016- 17 came in at $2,031,000, which makes for a variance, in this case an over budget of $1,610,000, which goes back to this $1,000,643 that was not in a loan lock. This variance is primarily due to the requirement to book a loan provis ion that was not booked previous years before that. Mr. Lindsey: So you're telling me the budget for Cooperative Development hasn't been cut or–? * (15:50) Mr. Pedersen: So, in expenditures in this, it was–the estimated expenditures for '17 -18 were $386,000. The estimated expenditures in 2018-19 are $360,000. So it's about a $26,000 reduction. Mr.

Lindsey: And what–the number in 2016- 2017, then, was the $601,000. But you're saying that's because of previous unbooked numbers? Mr. Pedersen: So, in 2016 -17, there was $230,000 in a separate line for Cooperative Development. And what we've done is we've streamlined the grant process across the department. And this goes into PEG funding– partners for economic growth. It's called PEG funding.

1032 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 5, 2018 And in '17-18, and again in '18-19, that becomes part of our PEG funding. Mr. Lindsey: So, then, the overall money available for grant money in this PEG funding increased or decreased for the coming years? Mr. Pedersen: That all depends, again, on where we land on for a final number. Again, going back to our economic development review, that PEG funding is part of our economic development program as a –as–the program as a whole. So we are working on–we will be working on that once we hear back from Dave Angus and Barb Gamey. Mr.

Lindsey: So you've already moved funding for grants out of Cooperative Development into this PEG fund, but you don't know how much money is going to be available in this PEG fund, is that? Mr. Pedersen: That's correct. Mr. Lindsey: So how do we know how much money is available, then, for grants now? We don't, because you haven't determined that yet. Is that correct? Mr. Pedersen: Correct. Mr. Lindsey: Look at that. Next thing on the list is Partnerships for Economic Growth. So it also saw another year of reduction. Can the minister give me your–his sense of the companies that this division works with? Mr.

Pedersen : So the Partnerships for Economic Growth, PEG funding as we refer to it, and grant assessments were merged with our other grant funding, again, to–I say expand a single window, but it's getting it to a single -window approach to Manitoba funding for economic development partners. There are approximately 13 recipients under PEG funding and yes, that's what PEG funding is. Mr.

Lin dsey: So there's 13 recipients under the existing PEG fund, but you're rolling other funding into this group, so will there be groups that are presently funded or partially funded or receive funding from a different division of Growth, Enterprise and Trade that will now fall under this funding entity? Mr. Pedersen : So that's the purpose of the single window, is before there was the PEG program, there was other programs, as we talked about the cooperative branch, and there was other funding streams within Growth, Enterprise and Trade.

And what we're doing is getting it into a single window so that it's easier for organizations to apply. They know that –prior to this, they didn't know whether they fit under PEG funding, whether they fit under a different program, whatever. We want to get it simplified so it's under one approach. We also will know the total funds that we will have available so that we can make better determination or easier determination of who is getting funding and how much funding they 're getting.

This is red-tape reduction, really, is what you could call it, because it's simpler, nothing's–it's easier for both government and for the agencies that are applying here, that everyone's working off the same page, and we know how to–we can maneuver the system much better than what was previous. Because that was one of the things that I found when I came into this department back in August, that there was PEG funding, there was cooperatives funding, there was other kinds of funding.

Now we're streamlining it into one, and I can tell you, if I can understand it better, I'm sure the department loves it a lot better too, because it's so much easier to navigate, and not only for government, but for the agencies that we're involved with funding. * (16:00) Mr. Lindsey: Imagine how much fun we'll have when I understand it. So, you've said that there's other entities that have been funded elsewhere, that now will fall into this single -peg funding thing, and yet when I look at the budget line, the adjusted budget line for 2016- 2017 was $6.3 million.

This budget, it's approximately $5.8 million, approximately $500,000 reduction. So, while you're saying, on the one hand, there's going to be more groups funnelled into this single window to get grant funding, the total amount is actually going to be reduced. Is that correct? Mr. Pedersen: Again, I'll just go back to those approximately 83 different groups and agencies that we were funding before, and this is –will be part of our economic development strategy, is to –those 83 were applying under various programs within the department of Growth, Enterprise and Trade.

What we are doing is moving them into a single window, so that it is easier for them to navigate, easier for

April 5, 2018 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA 1033 government to navigate, a nd again, will be based on the results of Dave Angus and Barb Gamey as their economic development outreach unfolds, and they put it–give it to the department for us then to work on. There is–again, you're making assumptions that are not –are only based on speculation. We are not speculating.

What we're doing is creating a single window to work much better for both government and the organizations and it will be based on–it'll be much–with a single window, it will be easier for government to have reporting back on results of the organizations that we are funding. Because it was scattered before, there was not tracking of results in previous years. We've started to do that, but it'll be much simpler under a single window. Mr. Lindsey: So the single window, one place, one - stop shopping, where entities can go to get grants, to get funding, I get that concept.

I understand that there may be some savings potentially there, but if everybody that's presently being funded under different programs is now going to be funded under this division, clearly, not everybody's going to get funded or not everybody's going to get funded at the same level, if the budget has been set already at $500,000 less than what it was, just for this one window, when there's now people from multiple windows coming here. So how does that work? Clearly, somebody's not getting the funding that they were getting. Mr.

Pedersen : So under the previous adminis - tration–and I'll go back to there because the member likes to keep going back to '16- 17 and–which was a result of previous years' mismanagement of budgets. There was a lack of co -ordination within economic development. There was many streams to apply for funding. There was a lack of accountability to follow through to find out if we were getting results on that money–on the grant money that was been given out.

There was different agency –or different organi - zations that were competing with each other and duplication, but the government had no idea – government at the time. The past government at the time had no idea whether there was duplication because you weren't following this because you had different streams that you were handing out grant funding on.

What we're saying now –and furthermore, it was on kind of a first -come-first-served basis before which, depending on the organization, if they were really good and really fast at getting their application in, they had a better chance of getting it rather than– and it shouldn't be on a timing basis; it should be on a return -on-investment basis that you're doing this. Because we're looking for the best outcomes and we're trying to get this –we will get this aligned with our economic strategy which will be rolled out this summer.

And I don't know why the member has this idea that just because it's going to a single window, that automatically means –you take an –a group of organizations under a group of funding agencies, so now we're taking–what was –that was in the past. Now we're taking a group of agencies and putting them under a single window. Inst ead of having multiple funding mechanisms, we will have one funding mechanism, and that does not affect the net outcome of the group. It just means that we will have better organization within the department, and we'll have better use of taxpayers' money w hen there is grant money given out.

Mr. Lindsey: So the bottom line is there's less grant money going to be given out because entities won't have other streams to go to to get grant money. They're going to be directed to partnerships and economic growth, the single window that's already seen its budget cut for this year by $500,000. So never mind the money that might not be available from other divisions within Growth, Enterprise and Trade. Now we already know that there's less money going to be availabl e for grants under the single window than there was available under the multiple windows.

While it may be a laudable goal to simplify things and have a single window, a single source, when the source budget is been reduced before the other streams even com e into it, it's only a logical conclusion, then, that the amount of grant money going out is going to be less. * (16:10) Mr. Pedersen : I guess I'll start to say that the member's assumption is wrong because he seems to think that multiple agencies fundi ng–multiple funding streams within a department is somehow more efficient than one stream, and we'll just agree to disagree on that.

We think we're going to have –we know we're going to have a much better system here with one stream. It will be better for government; it will be better for the organizations that we're funding. It will align with our strategic planning going forward, and it's about –and we've seen this from different

1034 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF MANITOBA April 5, 2018 organizations. And, again, I'll use the two that are the best examples here; Futurpreneur and CME have been very successful at attracting private investment. And I know that term's a little foreign to the member, that he doesn't necessarily like the private sector, but there is –these are organizations that are working in the private sector that understand the private sector, and they've been encouraged to go out and seek private funding to top up their funding so that they are successful and continue to be successful.

And organizations like Futurpreneur and CME continue to be very successful in spite of funding reductions from our –from government, and that's the bottom line. We're looking for better outcomes from–for both government and for the organizations that we are funding. Mr. Lindsey: So the Industrial Technology Centre has also seen a significant reduction this year. What all companies does the Industrial Technology Centre support? Mr. Pedersen: Sorry, I just didn't quite hear your – could you repeat your question, please? Mr. Lindsey: Certainly. The Industrial Technology Centre saw a significant reduction this year.

Can the minister give me a sense of what companies the centre supports? Mr. Pedersen : The Industrial Technology Centre, ITC, does calibration testing for a wide range of industries, both domestic and foreign industries. One of the things they do is lottery ticket testing for Manitoba–for all lotteries across Canada and outside of Canada, so they're –they are doing –it's a business that is doing calibration testing. If it's in business, it should be able to recover their costs of operating and, hopefully, be profitable.

Out of the testing that they're doing for the industry, if they are –if they're not that means that government has to subsidize an industry. And we don't believe we should be subsidizing–what we'r e doing, then, is we're –this government is subsidizing industry so that they get a cheaper rate on their testing. And we don't believe that that is a good model for government to be subsidizing industry. Mr. Lindsey: So just to clear up for me, if we can: There was a budgeted amount from the government that went to the industrial technology centre.

Was that whole amount expended–given to the centre in 2017-18, or was something less than that? Mr. Pedersen: It was. Just a minute. So just to back up a bit: The ITC is, again more acronyms, special operating agencies, an agency, which is, which is –which we call an S .O.A. So they're–actually operate independent of government, although they receive government funding. And, in this year, it was 700 –the budgeted amount was 730,000 for '17- 18. We–I cannot tell you right now how much of that they've actually spent because as an S .O.A., a special operating agency, they will do an annual report.

The annual report will come in in the fall; it's a public document. And t hen we –they will then report as to whether they did spend the entire budget or how much they spent. So right now I can't tell you how much of the budgeted amount they actually spent. Mr. Lindsey: What about fo

Document details

Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	41-3-28b
Type	hansard
Volume / chapter	41st 3rd hansardpdf 28b.pdf
Language	en
Format	pdf
Source	PROVINCIAL
Identifier	70e76ac48daf20d0528cbfbf0c8cd0bdd53c5012

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