PROVINCE OF NEWFOUNDLAND AND LABRAD0R HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY Volu me 1 r umber 27 · ~ :.h. Session 34th. General Assmnbly VERBATIM REPORT TUE'SOAY, APRIL 7, 1970 ··, SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE GEORGE W. CLARKE

The House ruet at 3:00 p.m. HON. J. R. S~!ALLl<O O D (Pr.::l:'.ier): Hr. Speaker, I have the great honour today in behalf of the Govermrrent to table a ~;bite Paper that the Government believe to be the most notable 1-'hite Paper of its history since the coming of Confederation. This l.'hi te P<iper has been in the making for over a year, in charge of th e han. Minister of Nines, Agriculture and Resources. The bon. minister is tocay in Otta~a. Ee has been for some little time conferring with ~inisters of the Govern~ent of Caneda who will be concerned with the matters contained in this White Paper.

The White Paper, ~lr. Speaker, sets forth a progr<'m to cost $50 to $60 millions of dollars spread over a nUI ~ber of years in the coast extending approxi~ately .from Deer Lake to St. Anthony and across -the Strait of Belle Isle in the sourtherr part of Labrador.

The progr< ~ woul~, of course, t:ake a few years to accomplish - may be six, eight or ten years and it would CO!'lphrcnd a100ng ~!!any things, it ,.,auld cor.:phrend ~he proposed Gros }!orne National Park; the three, at lec.st, three and th~re 1:1ay be more, three Eskireo and L1dian centres of antiquity know~ to assist on that coast; the Norse archaeological ce~tre at L'Anse aux Meadovs and would include a paved read extending all the way from Deer Lake to St. Anthony. It would include a hotel and tourist accomrr~dation at a number of points along that coast.

It ~auld include i~roved ferry and an entirely new air-passenger service across the Strait of Belle Isle to southern Labrador from Port au Choix at: which latter plcce an effici'1r.t airport would have to be built. This program, Sir, ~muld include also a vastly better, though not big~er, Gras Morne National ?ark. This Government reject outright categorically -we will reject the Canadic.n Government's present proposal for a park. We will reject it contemptuously. We will have nothing to do with it.

We de=nd and this l.'hite Paper derr.a:r.ds that the Gros Horne National Park shall be something far, far greater and far. far better than anything that Ottalola has hither too proposed for the Gras I·:orne National Park. The proposal, Sir, in addition to the photographs, striking and dramatic photographs th~t are here is in four - the ~>bite Paper I should say is in four parts. One is called the historic coast, a proposal for integrated development, a proposal for integrated develop~ent on the Great Northern Peninsula, cente~ed_p,oc the proposed 15i9

Gros Hon;e :;at.ior,al Park. The second s ectiu!1 of it is u:tdc::: t h e title, "1\."enty - . -I ._. -, - "' ..O:HL.LI.. ...L.. CUf "The Econotd .c Benefits of Hati •:.nal Par ks in Canada and r;et.:fcundland." A cotJparisou of the benefits of parks acro ss Canad.:1 and in tbe National Terra ~<ova Park and the proposed national park c.t Gros ~- ~ourne. Fourthly, a · paper entitled, "Gras Horne National Park History of the Proposal." The co!nplete story, Xr.

S?eaker, of the Canadi~n Government's proposal of the l\et.:foundlar.d C-ove::-rur.ent 's Ct.'U:1ter-proposal set forth in a White Paper ~hich is now in the hands of the Gover=ent of Canada who are considering it and who, in my opinion, will consider it very favorably indeed. I have great pleasure in circulatin g copies to all hon. n~mbers of the House and to the press. You do not need yoer tray. This is one of the proudest moments of ~y career as Premier of this Prov i nce. Mr. Speaker, while I am on my feet, I wish ••• MR. JOH~ C. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, on a Point of Order. If the hon.

Prcr:ri.er is leaving this ministerial statefficnt, I ~o~ld like to have a few words •• MR. S}!ALU:OOD: ~ot fo'r:~ minute. MR. CROSE!£: I submit, Hr. Speaker •• ~-Cf.OSllJ.E: lf the hun. fr<!ll'J~r is ra:'.sing !! Point of Order, I ;;!11 spefik -to it, but in tht< meantime, Mr. Speaker, I ..,ould like to speak to the ministerial statement just made by the hon. minister. HR. S~.ALHlOOD: !<ot permitted, Hr. Speaker. HR. SPEAKER: ·,;.;. b.ave not been in the habit of permitting .co=ent on ministerial statements.

If the hon. ~ember car. give r.e his authoiity as su~h, it has not been eustomary in this legislature, as far back <..s I can.re~ell'.ber,- to comment on ministerial statements. rf the hon. me:cl>er hn.s at:thority £o1: that, he could put it forth. ~m. CROS~IE: Yes, Mr. Speaker, on the Point of Order raised by the hon. Premier, I refer you, !·~. Speaker, to page eighty-four of Beauchense, Parliamentary Rules and For~ Fourth Edition, 1958 -...·here F.eauchense states in

section ·.(91): '.'when a minister makes a statement on Government policy or ministerial administration, either uud~r routine.proceedings between t~O ord~rs of the day or shortly before the adjournment of ~he House, it is n~~ fi~ly established that the leader of the Opposition or the chiefs of recognized groups are entitled to ask explanat!o~ . 1580

April 7, 1970 Tape no. 353 and make a fe""' remarks but no debate ·is the:~. alloYed under any Star,ding Orders." rnat is my authority, Hr. Speaker. I recognize that this is not the time for a debate but as Beauchense says, ve are entitled to ask explanations and tr.a.ke a fcv remarks. ' MR. ROBERTS: Mr.

Speaker, tr.a.y I reiterate that in my brief experience in this House, including the time which the hon. ruember "'as a member of an administration, it has never been the practice - I an• told, Sir, that in 138 years that Newfou:~.dlaad has had an elected legislature, it has never been the practice to comment by any cerr.her upon a statement by a minister.

Further, Sir, with refere:nce to the point about the authority of Beauchense, may I draW" your Honour's attention, Sir, to Standing Order (1), "which provides that the usuages and customs of the House of Co=ons apply insofar as they rr.a.y be applicable to this House only in cases not provided for hereafter or by sessional or other crder.s." Mr. Speaker, I sub~it that the practice in this House has been consistently clear and I think that the bon. gentleman is out of order in attempting to comment upon a ministerial state~~nt. }!R.CROSBIE: }!r.

Speaker, before you make your decision, I would like to reply to the co~cnts oade by the bon. member. TI1ere is not or.e W"ord mentioned in o¥r Standing Orders, Mr. Speaker, so far as I know, I am subjEct to correction, about ministerial stater.ents and the hon. member opposite says that for 138 yearsi~1is House there has never been a co~ent on a ministerial statement. I say, Hr. Speaker, prove it. Where is his evidence for that statement1 I submit, Mr.

Speaker, even if in the vhole 13B years there has been no comment on a ministerial state~~nt, it is time now for us to change the custom of the House, and we have the authority of Beauchense, Hr. Speaker, which we always refer to, which is right on this point. 1581

Apr~L I, l'J IU !ape II J)4 Pa~e 1 ~!R. SPEAKER: Kefore we get into a deb2te on the Point of Order, let rne say this, and I am glad that the hm'l.· the menher for St. John's ~~est has cited Sectioti (91). I think Section (91) on Pa~e 84 is clear too. Even if our Rules are silent and even if it has been our custom not to permit any debate, I do not see this Citation (91) at variance to that.

It only states this: "It is no01 firmly established that the Leacer of the Opposition, or the chiefs of reco&nized groups are entitled to ask exolanation and ~~ke a few remarks, but no debate is allowed.'' The Leader of the Opposition may ask sorneth1n~ for pusooses of clarification, or the leader of any other party or group within the House, I oermit it - to ask and make a few remarks by way of explanation or clarification which he can seek from the oerson who made the ministerial statement. Therefore, I say that this is not at variance with,our practice.

If the Leader of the Opposition or the leader of any other party or the chief of any grou~ that oxists here wishes to ask any question for purposes of clarification or explanation as stated in

Section (ql) they are at liberty to do. so, and I have not hezrd a~v of them ask a question yet. May we ~ove on to the next order ole~se? MR. CROSBIE: Am I pe~itted now to ~o ahead Yith my fcv remarks? I submit Mr. Soeaker, that I am the chief if you ~1ant to call it that uf a recognized group - He is ~oing to be a leader or bust. He ~ill bust if he does not become a leader. MR. CROSBIE: The hon. the Premier seems to b~ pretty worried about that. MR. S?EAKF.R: Order, O~der ~lease. HR. CROSBIE: I refus~ to take my seat when ordered bv any other member of the House. HR. SPEAKER: Order.

I am giving an explanation - l-!R. SK.U.U100D: He is still standing up. MR. CROSBIE: I take nr, order from the Han. the Premier }!r. Speaker. Nor.e. ------ HR. SPEAKER: If the hon. member will sit down I will continue my ~emarks. As 1 have already stated from Section (91) ''The Leader of the Opposition or the chief of a recognized group in this Haese;· now if somehodv will show me the leader of a recognized group in this House, he will be entitled to do this. And I say there is no person as such that this Chair is acquainted 1582

. of. NR. CLYDE l·lELI.S: Hr. Speaker, I ~d 11 ans~1er Your Bonour' s question that you put and asked if anybody could show you. It 1o1as annonnct!d and it was made quite clear by the four members that sit here, that the hon. me~bcr for St. John's West is the chief of this ~roup. Chairman of the group. Nov that Mr. Speaker, I submit falls clearly fn that cate~ory and he-has been acknet·lled~cd as such by the four members ~·ho sit as this group. Now that qualifies him surely under that order to r.:ake a feo;.; remarks. l~e have had enou~h to trying to prevent people from expressing their opini<'n here. MR.

SPEAKER: I have not been advised that there is anv leader of any group in this House other than the Leader of the Opposition. MR. WELLS: Will the hon. the Soeaker take mv advice that this is so. I can confirm it, th~ hon. member for St. Barhe South can confirm it. MR. SP<:AKER:For future events, if I am notified officially that there is a leader of a ~roup in this House, I will take co~nizance of it ~hen the situation arises.

As of now 1 do not, and 1 have rulen accordin~ly, that only the Leader of the Ovpositi~n and the Chairrna~ or the Leader of a recognized group can act, and then it is only to ask for an explanation and make so~a remarks, as I said, a fe~ reffiarks, ~· vav of exulanatlon. and no debate is permissable. If one person can do it then every sin~le other nerson in the Hause can a'•!anate a debate, and it is only the t~o leaders who may exnect to do this. ~IR. SHALUIOOD: ~r. Soeaker. on this matter, may I be permitted on a Point of Order before anyone appeals Your Honour, before any appeal J.s heard, I wish to be r.eard.

I wish to make this point. to Your llooour, that a;;ain and a~ain in this House, the Speaker has ruleJ a~ain and ap.ain and again on numerous occasions, the Speaker has ruled that where 011r ovn rules are silent on a ~atter, and Beauchesne has pronounced on that sa~e matter. The pronouncment of Beauchesne is respected and accepted in this House exceot where the practice~ of the House of long and historic duration are at variance vith Beauchesne. Now Sir, for the 13R years in this House, that is an awfully long time.

For 138 yea;s in this House, the orzctice has been, notvithstanding the absence of any written rules in our Standing Orders, not the 5Landing precedence cited by Beauchesne. The practice in this l'ouse. 1583

JW April 7, 1970 Ta pe 11354 Pa~

e) MR. SPEAKER: I have to interrupt · the han. ttte Premier. I have g_iven my rulin~. and the rulin~ hRs he~n ~ade. There has been debate on it. I have given my ruling, and said this is ~Jhat it is supposed to he. I have now said that there is no person other than these two persons I mentioned pe~itted, two han. merr:bers mentioned and permitted to make cxplal}atidn or ask for explanatior!S on this p.oint. The ruling has heen made. It is not suh1ect to the debate, and no~" the.re is. only one thing we can do, and that iSj the ,li'>W~ ~>.&-~ ruling has been challenged~is to put the vote on the rulin~. HR.

S!·fALL';<OOD: - ---- - - Your Honour, befo;:e you put the vote, may I say '1..-ith ~reat resoect, that Your Honour has iust made a ruling \.lhich contravenes 138 years practice in this House. And I mav be oblip.ed with ~reatest possible resoect to ch2.llenge Your Rono•.lr' s rulinS"!,.

Rut Your Honour has done his rule that the oractice of this House for 133 years sh2l be superceded by Beauchesne. and I may with the greatest possible resoect be obliged to challenge Your Honour's ruling after the challenge of the han. rr,.:mher opposite has· been put, carried or defeated, I may be obliged in bEhalf of 138 year's practice, z::t:.I:!l -:::-ac:t:!.ce in this li.c;;se., to challenge Your Honour's t:uling. Anci Your Honour will understand. Orner. I suggested Mr. Speaker, that your ruling might be challenged; outrageous. MR.

SPEAKER: There is no question whatsoever in the ruling in \:hich I made where this ruling of 138 vears ago was challenged. I said that our rules were clear on this point. The rules of the House of Commons apply when they are silent. Even in these circtw,stances, do~~ throu~h the years there have never been any comments nor any debate on a Question such as this before the House.

But, I said, even if they did not prevail, there was no reason u...,der these rules where anvbody could be oerrni~ted other than the Leader of (JI..Jlt nt 'J-1-I.. the Opposition and the leader of an r. · . .• · .. -r+ )!;roup to ask a question even in explanation, and no debate was still allowed. There is no variance between what we ~ave done' in the past a~d ~1at is being done in th~ oresent. The ruling is challen~ed. Here the matter ends, and we will put it to a vote. MR. WELLS: Your Honour, with respec:t, that is not the ruling that was challenSted.

The ruling that vas challenged was Your Honour:s ruling that the hen. member 1584

JW April 7th. 1970 Tape 354 Page 4 for St. John's ;..:est was not acceoted by Your Honour as the chief of a recognized !!'roup. That was the rulin[; chr~llent:ed, Not Your Honour's pri.or ruling. MR. SPEAKER: If that is the one ?then in JLY co""•:ents, I have sa.id that I cannot until I ~~ officially notified that a person is the leader of a group or the chief of a group, in this House recognize him as such. So::~ebody else cocld ~2ke the claim five minutes after there is another group and then another, vhile there are members who would care to do it.

Until I am advised that there is an organized group in this House and they have selected a leader, I cannot recognize that person as such. If that is the point that has been challenged then let us put it to the vote. The ~-'otion is then, or the question before the House is that the ruling of the Chair 'be sustained. Those in favour "aye", contrary "nay"; It is my opinion that the "ayes" have it. MR. SHALLWOOD: 'Hr. Speaker, before Your Honour mov<'S on, I have tva othi!r . statements to make.

In this House l~~t night it was declared by the hon. the me1r.be!' for Burin tha't the shipyard at :~.arys tol..'ll bad lost the services of the great Vickers Shipbuilding Company. I was visited today by the head of thai: company in my office, vho left with me a :iescription of their company, which says that they have a body of 200 technical personnel drawn from across Europe aud North America on parrallel for size and quality in Canada. MR. CROSB!E: On a Point o~ Order :-lr. Speaker. MR. HIC10l/.:;: Is this answering co!l'~ents of an non. member during the debate on the Address and Reply. MR.

CROSBIE: This i~ a debate HR. HICK! IAN: If it is a debate them Nr. Speaker, I submit that it is not permissable at this time. MR. S~!ALL';.IOCD: It is not a debate, !1r. Speaker. }ffi. HICK:-t!u'i: The hen. gentleman opened his re::~arks by stating in answer to a statement cade by the hon. the memb~r .for Burin L1st evening. MR. SPE~~ER: Is the hen. the Premier mak!ng a ministerial statement? MR.

SMALL~OOD: I am making a ministerial statement, and· my ministerial statement is that I was visited today by the head of the great V~ckers Building Company, who informs me that the shipyard at Marystown continues uninterruptedly to ha·•e at its disposal the services of sorr:e 200 technical personnel of thCl Vickers Company dratm from across Europe and :<orth Anerica, and on parrallel 1585

Jw ?a~c 5 for size and quality in Can~ da , th at this is the y,roup of shiobuildin& t alents w!th over fifty ye~rs of ex~eriencc in the desi~n and construction of bulk carriers dry-cargo vessels , tanker s , Great Lakes vessels, Container- ships, fishing craft, b~rge s dnd tu~s . MR. CKOSBIE: Point of order! 1 su~mit to Your Honour, th~t it is not a ministerial state~ent. It is not a state ment on ~overn me nt policr , or ministerial adminis:ration . This is an atte~ot of the hon . the Premier to give inform3tion to the Hnu~e that shoul d really be ~iven when the E~ti ma tes co me or in a debate .

He has sooken on the Address in Reoly and he is n~ attempting to speak in it again . I suhmit Your Honour should rule this out of order. Y~. S~A~L~OOD: ~! r. Speaker, I am making a ministerial statement . The to minis~erial s:a:ement is with re~ard an economic ac t ivity owned hy the r~vernment , namely t he shipyard 158~

HR. S:·!ALLWlOD (J . R.): The shipy~.,.-ds at ~!?.rysco-.;n which ~.,; the property of that shipy<~rd, the shipyard ccntinue s uninterruptedly to have at its disposal the services of sam~ 200 ships, marine architects of the Vickers Co~pany in Hontreal, ~ithout a:1y change or alter a tion, or rather any intc' rruptio~. And that the House I am sure will be happy to knol<i, that the shipyard at aarysto~o-'11 ;: ~ill be happy to know, and that every Ne1.ifoundlander I thi !ik will be happy te>.j that the services of this great organization Vickers, are still available to the shipyard in Marystown. Hr.

Speaker, while I am o:l my feet, not ;)laking a ministerial statement Hr. Speaker, but as Premier of this Pro-<ince I wish to express a word of very cordial welco me to s or.'.e thirty-one students of grade X, of Laval Regional High School of Pl~centia. These thirty-one students of gra~~ X, are brougtt hero: by their teacher Brother Hall. I und.:=rsta."ld that it is tb.<> first time they have ever visited the .House of Assembly. If they :::ernain for a fair portion of the day I am sure they will hear and see various things that ~ill interest them. That will attract them, and perhaps ev~n info~ them.

They have corr~ from one of the most historic places in our ~hole Province. Indeed, I .:atl Sdy Slr, that titcy h.;w<:: cor:;e from one of the most historic places in Korth ~erica. The ancient French ca~itol of this Island a place where history has been performed and recorded, I an sure that they are immensely proud of the ancient history of Placentia. I hope that they can spare some pride as ..-ell for the historic cltnacter of this Ch3;:Jber.

Thi.s Chamber has been here with a brief interruptiOtl from 1949 to 19 - from 19)2 to 1949, 'IJith that brief interruption during the time ,..hen the Commission of Government '\Jere here, and there vas no House of Assembly. This Chamber has been here from 1832, and that is 138 years ago ~hich ~akes the House of Assembly not the oldest, but one of the oldest institutions in our Province today. And so in visiting the House of Assembly, they are truly Yisiting a very ancient 'levfoundla."l.d institution. I do hope that they ~ill enjoy thei.r here, and that they may learn so:neth.:!.ng.

One thing they must learn is that they should not, no one should judge the Rouse of Assembly by the occasional cross vord that is uttered in it, no one should judge the value or even the efficiency of the House of Asse~bly by the occasional display of temper. !his happens even in f<;milies. This happens even arnong frie:~ds. This hap?ens I believe in all crganizat ions ln churches, in lodgt!s, and in every ocher hu.:nau institution. So do not judg.: the House of Assembly by the occasional cross 1587

word or 01.1tbreak of bad ter.1per. Most of the time in the House from ~hree on getting its duty done, getting its t.~ork done, slm.'lY but surely with an occasional outburst of bad te::tper. lJo not judge us by that. I never forget the f<.m ~us scene in the House of Com'or.ons in London, when the great Churchill, the ' , at Parliamentarian, the greateJt Parlt~e~tarian of the present century, -.;hen Churc hill seizC"d a book off his desk and I fear a much heavier and thicker book. than this and hurled it across the floor. Now if he had had the hen. ~eRber for St.

John's North facing him, I am sure he vould have hurled it more t han once. Not St. John's );orth, St. John's East Extern. No one 'lo!Ould think of hurling a book at the hon.me:nbcr for St. John's North. But St. John's East Extern, if he had had him facing him I a:a afraid that Churchill would have been provoked '"-Ore than once to fire a book at the head of an hou. member opposite. But Churchill did that once.

The great Parliamentarian, the great champion oi Parliamentary democracy actually took a book and hurled it. ci. sa'!.l myself in the House of Assembly tlie :.,-,ost c:ild mannered ~ember I suppose that was ever in the bouse of Assembly W.W.Halfyard seize an inkwell. In rhos!' days they did n::Jt have fcuntai:. ;.<:us, or this n.:w type of ball point pen they had old fashion~d pens and inkwells, and the inkwells were great, heavy, cutglass inkwells on every members desk.

I sa;.; the hon. 1·!.1-i.halfyard seize that and he had his arm back. like this to throv it across the floor at Sir Alfred :·lorine, Sir Alfred B.~!orine. • :-io czcuse me, it \o.'aS Coaker had it, and Halfyard who sat next to him just seized his ••x:ist in time to prevent him throwing,• hurling the inh.:ell, and what happened was that he stayed the throw, but the ink overflowed' and went do~o-n Sir \1illia:r.

Coaker' s sleeve, rig:1t up hi.:; arm and maybe down his side inside and Coaker kept speaking and took out a handkerchief, while Halfyard was holding his wrist, took out the handkerchi~f and mopped off the ink while he continued bawling out Sir Alfred Ryan. He could not throw an inkwell at him, but he let him have it from the li~s out, These things do not matter. They are not what matter these things.

What matters is the thought we give here in spite of our ter.~pers to the business of our Province, and wh~n men get together, if the feel deeply about things they are going co loose their temper but we should never take that too seriously. Now our friends from Placentia "Who I know n~ver have an arg'Jment, I kno\J that in their school there is never an argument. Qn.the playground when they get out: aide the school they never f:1.ll out .. they "never quarrel, they never have an 1~~R

April 6 , 1970, Tape 355 , Pa~c 3 -- apb aq;umc:lt. l hope th:tt in tnel.r success in th:tt reta rd they t...-!11 for r,ivt the r epresentatives of the peopl e if in : he heat and argument of debate they sometil:les loose their temiler. t he Leader of the Opposi tion is not prese:-:t i o t he . House toc!ar , but there oust be someone :~ere co repres ent the Opposition ~~d I now throw out a challen&e . I am c o~ti nu ~ l ly throwing challenges-across the floor . They are throwing the m a t cs, or we are thro~ing them ~t them , ~~d 1 an going -to challenge them nov to get up and agree with every::hing 1 have said.

That we \.•elcom.e these students here , ... .-e are delighted t hc7 are here this af terncon, ~e hope t hey ~11 come back , and we hope that they will enjoy every cooent that t hey are he :-e. liow there is a challenge for the Opposition and I dare t hem to contradict ~c. MR . T.HICKEY: Mr. Speaker, I &uess that t his is one challenge t ha t we have to a.ccept, and it is certainly not disa:;reeo::b!e , the reaarks by t he hoo . the Premier . I nave great ?leasure in velcc ming t he •.• • • • •••• 1589 •·

velcoming the 31 students fro~ Placentic. I had the p!e~sure of living in the some or all of the parents of those students. I think, Sir, jnd~ing from l.•hat the Pre.,ier said it mir,ht be ~lise that uc enr:a?.e in thrm:ing ob.1ects ' across the Fouse rather than so"'e of the t:ords that we have been thro<<ing across from tirr.e to time. I hope that the students from Placentia will find the afternoon an interesting one, that they ~ill le~rn >orrethi~& more than they have already.

There might be a speaker from the Opposition side I am sure if that is the case they •d 11 certainly learn more t!-.an they v;ould if there "'as some one s!)eaking fron the Goverr.r.1e:nt side. 1\nd so it i~ '"ith great pleasure that I confer with th,• rel"'arks of the !'remier in l."elco~ing those students. HON .DR.C.li.FRECKF.R('~in. of Prov. Affairs): ~r. Speaker I should like to - ~ "" . associate myse'lf "'ith the words spoken by the Ron, the Pren>ier arld hy my frie'ld on the Opposit1on, the m~mber for St. John's East Extern.

I remember ~hen he and I helned to launch the no~ famous inter-to~~ re~atta, I should say not launch really, but the hon. nemher d1d play quite a prominent

part in that. t-'hat I shenld like to say in my t·•crds of •;elcor.:e, to say ho-w fon:unc.te it is that the regional hi~~;h school in P1acent.ia shnultl .have had ~elected for it such a famous name as that of Bisl"wo Lav.!l. Bishop Laval Hr. Speaker, hon. memhers of the H~use was the first ecclesiastical authority of any note in Ne"' France, and New France included tne ~hole of french Nortn America which included Placentia. Now F lacent ia "'as founded as tJe t.:ell remember in 1662, when Premier Smallwood saw to it that the occasion was marked in a very notable and historic fashion.

Bishoo taval "'as aopointed Prefect Apostolic for New France in 1658. He in turn sent one of this priests to Placeutia in the year 1663, in other words, just a year after the foundin~ of Placentia as a French Centre in Newfoundland. In 1774 Rishop Laval bec~- e the first Bishoo of Ouehec and took constant int~rest in Newfoundland and I vould say, ~r.

Speaker, that the ycun~ men of Placentia and the young ladies of Placent1i!. could do no better w!.~n they !'(O to tniversitv later on and t:<ake it a special hobbv.of theirs if not a special serie~ of study to trace down the very fine history of that little community known as Placentia. It and Quehec were the basti~ns of the French E~pire in North A~erica and until 1713 at the Treaty of Utrecht it held that very notable oositicn. In 1663 of course, ~he French lost Placentia throup,h t~e Treaty of Paris and if I might .J.dd that 15!10

Sc Pierre & 'fi<1u ~ lon .,,\e.,..e I ha r nen to h;1ve or ir, J.nated and Plac e::tia have to Placentia and later in 1713 ~ere sent to Louis~ur ?, and I h~ve heard members of the local co=itteefin Placentia "'r. Sreaker, clr~im th.:tt the Castle Hill fort.ifications in Placentia should get the s arre recognition fro(:'! Otta~o.·.:;. that Louisburg has received from Otta~ a.

I would hone, that although the two were nor as ~reat in so~e respects they are as rreat h i stori~ally where that Ottawa 'l.'ould give due recognition of the cll'l'i.r:>s of th e local inter-tN•n con:nittee which is now working very seriously t o~ ether ~s the result of the phase do~~ of the Argentia Naval Station. I do hope that the youn~ men and Brother !!all will enjoy their ses s ion with us tL-1-:; afternoon. Present~ Petitions~ ~.J ~!AHONEY: l>fr.

Speaker, I be~ leave to present t.:o Petitions the first is signed by some 149 re!'::id~nts of Dat~e 's Road at Lilt'!:; Pond ~~aouels, The p!ayer of the petition is, that the road, which is a ~ravel road, be upgrilded and pav~d dur!ng the coming s~~er, the construction season, the dust problem in the summer and the mud problem in the spring creates a real hazard to children valking on this road attendin~ school and this is particular~y so, by the excess traffir.: in the summer ~cnt:h s , :=:cca.use. !·Ir.

Sp-eak~r ~ this roari is used by~ the Pentecostal Assemb!~es o~ ~e~foundl a nd as an excess tc their quarters which j_s irnr.:~diately behhd this road. ~he prayer of the petitior. is ~orth~h~le anj I ~ould/i~~t it be received by the House and referred to the de,>artmen:: to wh~c;1 it rela~es. The second is signed by scme 104 residents, all the res.ldents of Fo'l.·ler's Road at Cha.:nber J.ains, i;t the Distrl.:t of harbour }~ain.

The prayer of the petition is virtually th~ saree as that of the other but b~cause of the increased vehic.ular traffic over the paet five ye<1rs it is r.o~<.• increased over that period some lCO per cent, that the road whic~ has a di•t surface is almost i~pcssible to keep in good condition, muddy in spring, dusty in summer and this causes a real problem :o the good people ~1ho live there and the prayer that: durin~ the cocin~ construction seaso~ that the road be un~raped and be given a covering of asphalt to kee~down the dust and the m~d.

I ask t~at this also be received by the ilouse and referred to the depart~er.t to ~hich it relates. I It i~ved and seconded that these petitione be received and referreci to the denartment to which they .relate. ?lr. Speaker, I ha·.-e a oetit~oa fro"' voters vho reside in the 1591 .--·

.l.cltJC JJV Town of Ep~orth in the District of Eu~in. lt says ~e the undersir,ned rcprese~ting some of the votinp, public of Ep<:orth tmllld like to sec the cement wall that ~as built some time ago expended about 200 feet making a read fit for public transportation. The area in question is locally known from Ovett BreYers to Arch Moultons. This area in the '!.':inter represents danger~us dri •:ing due Au the bclld up of ice and the road has a tendency to lean towa~d the beach. a drop of t~enty to thirty feet, To date no one has been unfDrtunate to go over it but there have been close calls.

The petition is sip.ned by these voters of Epworth the signatur~s aopear to be in order, for those hen. members · who are not aware, of the Town of Ep~orth it is a very prosoerous part of the district of Burin, it is an area that at one time used to have a strong inshore fishery. But. of latter years the people of F.pt<otth hav--e been \Jerking in the ~ain, in the fish plant at Burin and then somr of tho voters and the residents Mr.

Speaker, of Ep~C:orth left their :Jobs !n the fish !'lar.t in Burin and -went to· ~ork in the shipyard in Marystown and then they found that because of lack of interest, or lack of somethin~ in the shi!'yerd in !·larystm.m. that Lhey were then unemployed add they are now back commuting to the Tot.m of Burin but they intend to continue to live in the Town of Eo~orth, work in the Town of Eurin and hopefully if -we ever see the shipyard functioninp; ar,ain, some of them "'ill go back to work in the shipyard at ~larystown. I move ~tr. Speaker, that this netition be laid on the table of this Hon.

House a."\d referred to the denartment to '•hich iJ: re' :-~t·,s. . It is moved and seconded that this 1592

April 7th. 1970 PK - 1 NOTICE OF !·10TION MR. J0~1{ C. CROSBIE: I \:ould like to l!lOV;! a motion Yhich is pretty well sinilar to t he one I moved yesterd ay, so instea;l of reading the preai!!ble, I might just read the last part of the motion, it is being revised in consultation \:ith Your Honour.

Be it resolved that, :1-!r. Speaker, to zppoint a select com~ittee of this House to inquire into and re~ort ~ack to the House vith _respect to status of the said Melville Project, and progres~ to date including but not to effect the f,enerality of the foregoing to report on the amount of moni?S guaranteed by the Govern m.:nt in connection \rith the proj e ct, from the feasibilities studies done in connection with the project, and the effect of changes in the method of transporting ~ood from Lab r a dor to Stephenville for the use of the said Pulp }fill at Stephenville.

J~d arrangements made for marketing of the said prodcction of the s ai d ~. ill, and on the security take:~ by the Government in connection 'With Government guarantees, such a select committee to have all necessary po~er to carry out its d~ties properly and to have permission to sit durin g the sitting hours of this House, and report back to this Rouse during the present session. So I beg leave, !-fr. Spe<>ker, to move thi.s moticn. !!r. Speake.-, I giv~ nctice of the motion. And I want to thank the hen. the Premier. AN3WERS TO QUESTIO:lS !!_11..'1. AIDE! MALONEY: (1-ma sn:R OF FISHERIES) ; ~lr .

Spea ker, I have the ansYer to Question No. 231 on yesterday's Order ~aper asked by the hon. Leader of the Opposition. (1) five; (2) three trawlers made five trips eac~. One trawler made three trips, and one trawler made one trip, and tvo trawlers vere not in operation, when the plant was taken ov~r.

(3) Tra~ler number one landed 702,472 pounds, for a value of $26,271_. Tra"ler nu!!lber tvo, 769,175 pounds for a value of $31, 844. And trawler number three, 597, 042 polli,ds for a value of $22,566. Tra:~ler n=.ber four, 440,900 for a value of $17,291. Tra>Tler number five, 30. 962 pounds for a value of $1159. I have ~he answer to Question 237 on yesterday's Order Paper asked by the bon. the Leader of the Opposition. The answer to part (1) $15,000 per month.

(2) Management Services. Question No. 239 asked by the bon. the me!:lber for Gander. The answer to part

(1) Yes.

(2) The building was purcha s ed from P.ypro Sea Foods, znd the price vas $25.000.

(3) The building is not presently being used, it was bougbtJand is.intended · for the benefit of the fishe~. en of the St. Mary's Bay

April 7th. 1970 HR. ~fAl.O_t;EY: area. Tape 35 7 RON. G.A. FRECK'S?.: U~INIS:'ER OF P"ROVH:CIAL A!'FAIRS ): PK - 2 }fr. Speaker, I would 1 ike to table the aP.swer to Question 261 otsked by the hon. member for St. John's West, and appearing on the Order Paper for April•6th. Part

(1) The Act has not been proclaimed, and part (2) and (3) dependent en part (1) for necessary action. MR. CROSBIE: Mr. Speaker, th ere is

an Act in connection with t his division which is not p~oclaimed. h~. FP~CKER: Yes, Mr. Speaker,

an Act was passed last year, but it has not been proclaimed to date. OP.DEFS OF THE DAY MR. CROSBIE: Before you proceed on ~~th orders of the day, I would like to rise on a point of privilege, especially with priviler.e of the House, there is a question on the Order Paper, Question 248 appeared on the Order Paper yesterday which was tabled in the House of Assembly here last Thursday, or left here last Thursday, Thu;:-sday of last -.:eek, in connection with ,;hethcr the Govern ment of Newfoundland is now ne.:otia ting "With a ?lr.

Ben Genter of British · Columbia in connection with a possible take over by him of a brewery o~~ed by Atlaatic Brewing Company Linited located at Steph enville? The question is a three part question, which asked about that, end where the Government is negotiating with him, nnd so on. This que3tion has not been ans ~ er e d in this House, it was not answered yesterday, it has not been answered today.

The hon. the Premier vas once again on the radio station to,day, radio station, CJON, giving out information requested in this question, which he is refusing to give to the membeE of this House by }not answering the question. Question 248 directed to the hen. the Pre~ier. And I submit, Mr. Speaker, ttat that is a breach of the privileges of this House, it is contempt for the right of the members of this House. It is contempt for this hon. House of Assembly when there are questions tabled in this hon.

Ho•Jse, which the hon. 'the Premier does not anst."er, or will not answer, yet he will go on a radio station and broadcast to the world, and give the information requested in a question in this House. I submit, Mr. Speaker, that is a breach of the privileges of the members of this House. I. therefore, move the following resolution as the Rules require. Resolve that the House do censor the hon. the Premier for his contempt of the privileges of this House for giving the radio stat~on CJON on April 7th. inforn.ation 1594

AprE 7th . 1970 Ta;>e 357 PK - 3 !lr. C!"o~bie: requested ir. Question 248, tzbled ir. this RousP- on April 6th. anri nnt give• to the House. ~IR. SPEAK!':R: If the hon. me:nber has conclu ded, I can C'nly say this and I do not want to be accused of bre aking the Rule s by needless rep e tition, I hope. But •:e have given rulings in this sc.me instance al:r.ost parallel each year, citing exarr.?les from the rulings in the Haese of Co~mons and what the situation was.

No~ whether it is parliam~r.tary pro?erity or so~ething else, it has been esta blished beyond any doubt, e v~ n in rec ent rulir. gs (I cannot ~uote the:n right nov, at this very moment but I can get the authorities for 1~) that divulging information by a minister, outside the Rouse, has not been loo ked upon as a breach of privilege, and all the authorities support us on this matter, and I have ruled in a similar ~nner at least once in this present session.

MR CROSBIE: In connection with your comments, Sir, on the si~ilar ~atter you m2ntion ~ d earlier in this session, Your Honour ruled that since there was a disagreement on facts that Your Honour · could not adjudge that this vas a prima facie case of breach of privilege for me~bers of this 5ous~. ft~d, therefore there been no prima facie breach of privilege, the ~uestion vas never put to the House.

Now this is not applicable to this present_session; Your Honour did not rule then, that if a prima facie cas e has been rr~de t h er~·vas no disagreement on the facts that that would not be a breach of privilege, b~ did not r~te ttat way then, he r~led then that the facts were indispute. I do not hear any facts disputed here this afternooi'. your Honour, and I submit a different case. MR.

SPEAKER: I can only say this; the authorities have it, (even if it is so ar.d it has been done) there is not a prima facie case of a breach ol privilege simply because any nlinister of the Governrrent divulg2d outside information, other than in connection with the budget and things of that nature, which is an entirely different thing altogether. But to give information to somebody outside the House, while the House is sitting, (and the recent rulin~ in the House of Commons has substantiated this) does not p4oduce a prima facie case of privilege.

That is the ruling I zivc now, and it is the only ruling that I can give because this is what the authorities say. 15D5

Ap-ril 7th . 1970 Top 357 PK - ~ ~ffi:: CL Y E i-r:":LLS: Coul d Your t:onou:r .edvi.sc r.·e ~· heth~r c r not th at holds tree 'l.'l:.ere the same in!:o=ation \o.'as on the day before or e·•en oo t he s=.e car asked for o>nd not giv<!::~? Does that stil l hold true in that situation? ~PF~~R : I 'l.'ould l ook C?OU it j ust sio ply as in fo~ati o n has been ~ithheld , it has ·be <!n gi ven outside . I said, parli.e!:!en t ary pr:!.oTi t y and oth~r aspec ts of it, is not a q uestio n fo-r t he Cha ir to cecide.

But it h.:;s been esta lish ed even under t hese circu mstance s there i s no pr~ "a fa cie c~se of b re ach of priv i lege. ~oa tev e r else a person car e t o call it, it is not in t ' e opinion of the authorities, i n the ruling of t he autho::itie s ar:d ir. t he precedents whi ch I have , a prima facie case of br e ach of. p rivile~e . RON. F.. !1. !WS::RTS: (lH.' !S!F:R OF HEALTH}: !:lous e to ~t r . Speaker, may l have leave of the 1596

HO:;. E.M.ROB.EKTS (:·!inister of Hea.i.th): re~ulations. ?.evert to tabling of motioas ar:u MR. SPEAKER: It is agreed MR. ROBERTS: Nr. Speaker, I thank Your llonour, may I table some regulations made by me on the second of April on the Food and Drug Act

chapter 56, of the Royal Statutes 1952. Sir. these would be of particular interest to the bon. member for the district of Furtune because they affect his· district. 1\'e have extended the area "Within the -purviet1 of the Health In;:;pection Divisior.. MR. SPEI\..'ZER: }lotions 3 to 8: On IPOtion of the lion. the !-:ini:>ter of Finance a Bill. "l..n Act Further To Amend The /,lcoholic Liquors Act." (No. 36). On motion Bill read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorro\.1: O'n 'lllOtion of the Hon, tho: President of the · Council a Bill.

"A:1 Act Futher To Amend The Local Go..,..ern:nent Act of 1966." (No. 44).

On 111otion Bill read a first ti1r.e, ordered read a second time on On motion of the Ho::~.. the President ;,f the Council a Bill, "An Act Further To Amend The C::nr.munity Councils Act, 1962." (No.45), On rnotion Bill read ;! first ti:r.c, o .>:"c!ered read a second tl~:~e en Oz:; motic·n of th~ Hon. the P!.'esi.knt of the Council a Bill, "An Act Further lo .A=nci The C;.;·o~o'l.l. .Lands ('Unes a""ld Quarries) A~t, 1961." (No. 47) On motion Bill read a first ti~e, orde=ed read a Jecond time on tomorro\.1: Ou motion at the Hon. the Mi:l.iste= of Public Welfare a Bill, "An Act Respecting The Administration - Of Certain S?ecial Services By The DeparLrnent Of Social Sen· ices And R~habilitation T;, The Resideats Of Northern Labrador." (No.41).

On motion Bill read a f:!.rst ti1ne 0 ordered read a second time O<l to1110rrow: ~ 111otion of the lion. the Minister of Labour a Bill, "An Act Further To Amend The Mln:f.mum Wage Act." (No. !>6). On motion Bill read a first time, ordered read a second time on tomorroll: The adjourned debate on the Address and Reply; the. hon. the member for St. John's East Extern: 1597

.. MR. T.I'HTEY : Hr. Speak<>r , I think Sir before 1 gQt t0o far in tl}' speech the PreiUier ,.;ill have his ans .... •ers to ho•: rr:.y throat is. Sir I ~ould first of all associate Eyself ~ith the ren.arks by other han. -.embers in e>:tendir. ~ con gratulations to the mover and the seconder. I am not sure if it too late to do that, it has been so long since the gracious speech was read. I had a few notes maue but I lost them. I am not sure if it vas in London or Paris or~ some;.;hE:re in b e t'Ween. I am sorry to hear Nr.

Speaker, that the hen. r..en:ber for Trinity North is hospitalized and I hope that he nal:es a speed;' recovery and is back in tne House before too long. Mr. Speaker, going through the Throne Speech one has to agree with certain remarks made by humble members on this side in agreeing that it vas a short, possibly one of the shortest speeches, a~d that there was possibly good reason ~or it, in view of the present economic conditions and the financial conditions of ti1e Province. In co!lnection with the conference ·.:hic1> is proposed I "to•ould hope · Sir, that it vill serve a ~orth\olhile purpose.

I do not ..,ish to criticize it in any othe.r than a constn:ctive \Jay. I <:auld hope that it is not a launc:'l pad for an election, a gathering of the forces fot ac election. I see nothing lJrong ~d.th the rlev~lopoent of a platfo= fer an election and I ~10ulci hope Sir that something worthwhile will come from it, and that is does not beco~e too partisan at h :as: with respect to those ,,:ho are i>NiteJ. The.re is a lot to be said for such conferences, and I think Mr.

Spe~ker this Province would be better of£ today if we had had mo>:e public gat:1erings and ~ore important than that, if ve had heeded the advice coming from such gatherings. I think Sir for too :ong we have sort of taken the bull by the horns, and followec a cours~ uot always the proper one. And while ad~itting that everj Govern..,eat will make mistakes, I am surt that <> lot of the :nista£es that this Government has mada could well have been avoided if they had so~ght the advice of the people.

It is my hope t;1at this Conference will provide some guidelines for the pres~nt Govern~r.t and hopefully for a new Government. It goes without saying 1-fr. Speaker, what party I mean when I refer to that new Govern;nen" t. In connection vith the salt fish corporation Sir, I would just like to say that it is my hope that the fis h err.:2n «ill finally find thet:'.selves in a position 1o:here they will knot.: in a dvance ~ h . H ~: i r-. d of prices they can expect before they go to the expense of preparing for the fishery. Our fishermen i~OU

April 7, 1970, T~?C 358 , P~s~ ) -- apb ha~e al~~ys 3uf!cred in :h :s rrovi nce t he ~ood y~ars ~l~h the bad , ar.d whateveT good yeats there "-'Cr<! Sir , us call:: the fisherr.e n ·.:e~e dealing w!.th merch an ts and 1.•ere in debt to them. Dcots incurred dc ~i:t g t!:e :nore le3:l years . I am not sure t h~t it is tn:c, but the 1:1erchant s have al1.•ays fleeced the f!she rcen . I c~,no t say that I as ree ~~th t hat. I t hink really the proble Q of our fi sr.er.nen l ies in the m3nr.er ir. ~hich ~; e p~licies perta inin g t o the fishery . It is an easy thing to bl~e t he me rchant s ~d leave it at t hat • • •• • • • • 1599 ,.

April 7th, 1970 Tape 359 JN - 1 HR. T.

HICKEY: "-'hat I think, Sir, the real problem li;cs in the lack of proper planning for the fishery by this Covcrr.."'~nt and I do o.ot !:h i.n:C, Sir, that I am being unfair "·hen I state that, "Up to the present time this Govern ment C.ovn through the years have not been too sure as to ~hat course they ~ere follow- iog in coo~ection vith the fishery." Granted they have made certain improve- ments but to my cind, Sir, to a great ex tent the present Govern !l'ent have not been too sure as to what they should do with the fishing industry. ~e ha¥e heard statements vherein it vas suggested t o the fishermen that they forget about the industry and that they look for, look to, jobs on land and all but leave the fishEry entirely.

We heard suggestions that there will be no woorlen boats use~ an}~Ore, it will be steel boats. We heard suggestions that the inshore fishery vas lost, was a thbg of the past. Hr. Speaker, it is difficult, rather di!:ficult to ur,derstand why any Govern~ent vo~ld ~4ke such a suggestion, certainly in this Province, Sir, where the fishery has been the oalnstay of the economy for so long and while we might bring in new industry, we might be industrializ~d, we certainly will not be industrialized to the exteut where we can focget the inshore fishery.

It is .,y opinion, Sir, that tlte insho:-e fishery plays a very important role in the economy of the P::ovince and it will cc-ntiniJe to do so. Fer that reason I think that sny suggestion fro~ anyone that we cocfint oursel\~s to the nev reoderu techuiqUEia and ::he :;ophistic:J.ted eqt:ipment and fish pJ.ants, the heavy draggers and trawlers and ior:;e:: the s~:~all boat fis:1ermen I think, Sir, is a great tnistake. Sir, ve also heard ia the speech about t~e Come by Chance refinery. l would say, Sir, on this matt~r that there is not much poin: in delving into something on Ybich one has so little information.

T3ere has been several attempts by hon. memb~rs on this side to get i~fo~ation but for some reasoo or other thi,; informat~. on do!03 not se= to be forthcoming. The only thing, Mr. Speaker, one can suggest or the only hope one can expect is that the Government has made the best deal for the people of this Province and to express the hope, wirhout being at all partisan, that this project gets off the ground and provides the kind of jobs for ~11 people that were told it is going to provide.

It goes without saying, Sir, how me~bzrs of my party feels about this project or any other project which will p:-ov i ~ e j :bs for !lewfcundlanders. 1600

April Jth, 1 <J 70 Tape 359 .ru - 2 MR. T. l!ICKEY: It iti qalLe uniair £or any non. ~e~uer oa tne otner s1cie to suggest tne tact it is taking unfair advantage to s~gg~st that ~~w.Lers on this side of the House a~c against this project or any other project just because they raise questions. Surely it is the role of an Opposition to raise questions on any and all matters no matter what they pertain too, all matters that are debated or discussed in this hon. House. The Opposition is referred to from time to time as the watch dog of the people. Mr.

Speaker, I would suggest if that is correct, and . ~I think to some extent it is, to a ~reat extent it is, ho~ can one perform their if they do not question, if they do not ask questions. Sir, ~hen quastions are asked the answers are not provided. I would term that a~ obstruction of duty by the Government. When a: 1uestion is asked in this hon. Rouse by an hon. m~mber from wh3tever side, whatever party or whatever group I think, Sir, it must be generally accepted and in asking thet question tnat hon. member represent a

section of th~s Province, a nurr.ber of our people. I think, Sir, that such questions sho~ld be considere1 along those lines and where.ever possible the ansvers sh0uld be given: It is with regret that I have to co~ to t~e concl~sion that this has JOt been the case .and too often I !"ound, e.:.pccic.lly in this sessio~, l.ihere questions are just shrugged off anc not answered. I fully realize, Mr.

Speaker, that it is toe prerogative o!" an hon. minister or the Government as to whether or nJt they vish to answer e question. l would suggest, Sir, that 1~ w~u!d be the Covern~e~t who ~an well be accused of ob~tructicn rather than the Opposition when those questions a::e not ~nswe1.ed.

I thir.k sometimes t.L !lel'Ome too partisan and because a 1ue~tion is a~ked fro~ this side ~hetner it is an embarrassir;.z que:stio; or nr.t o~ "Whe':her the dnGwer Yo·ll-:1 be e:nbarrassing I d~ uot think that should ce the criterion. r think hon. members have· a right to ask questions and I tl.ink the peopl~ through their members have a right to the anst.·ers • Mr. Speaker, we have seen tEMpers flare in this bon. House recently especially pertaining to such projects as the Come by Chance Oil Refinery and the . Liner B6ard Mill.

One wcncer5 as to Yhether or not the Government baa the best interest of the !'eople at heart when they refuse in an arrogant way to provide the information that is requested, but how can an Opposition judge a project if they are not given the .inf-:>r;;-,.ltion, ho;; 16 01

April 7, 1970 l:ape no. 360 Page l How can they really, intelligently co=e:-Jt, if they c.re not given - the infor=tion. It can never be said, Sir, that any of r::ry colleagues or myself have ever during the pre£ent ter~ voted against a project ~hich had, as its aitilS; to provide jobs for Ne...-foundlanders. There !:!ight have been parts, sections of agreet:!ents that we disagreed and vo!:ed against. We have always approved in principle any project ~hich was to provide new jobs to our people.

So with this in mind, Sir, it is ~y hope that the Come-by-Chance project Yill be a success and as I have said earlier that the jobs we are promised will become a reality. lbere has been a lot of promises, Mr. Speaker, of jobs over the years. HR. SMALLh'OOD: Speak up. HR. HICKEY: It is not vithout - the Pret:'.ier cannot hear me. Hr. Speaker, they do not know what they are missing. }!R. SHl-~LWOO D : That is l.'hat I am afraid of - that is the ~hole point. MR. HICKEY: Mr.

Speaker, what I was saying before I was interrupted - 1 w11l net say rudely interrupted, vas that it is our hope that the jo~s ·that are prow.ised from the Co~e-by-Chance project, toat the entire project and ~he hopes of the Govern~ent beco~ a reality. Sir, ~e have good reason for saying this, because ther~ have been cany promises of jobs in the past that have not come to reality. There,have been false hopes ~~ised of jobs. I think, Sir, that our people are at the stage now lrhere they can do without' any promises whether they be political or otherwise.

They need jobs and they need improve~ents in their standard of living~ The Speech, Mr. Speaker, also refers to the appoint~2nt of an o~udsman. I would just like to briefly comment on this. I had the privilege of being a member of the select conmittee investigating this matter. I certainly agree with the appoint~ent. In saying this, I should not run the risk of anyone thinking I speak for my party. I speak for myself in this co~~ection. I agree in princi?le on the appointcent of an ombuds~3n. I beleive there is a great need for the establishment of such a post.

I agree, Sir, only if this individual vho ever it mi3ht be i~ given every opportunity and if he is not prevented in anyway from cl1ec~ing ~~y files of any cinister of the crown, including the Pre~er• 1602

Pages 1603 – 1610 are missing from the printed copy.

April 7th , 1970 !ap_e 3{>2 JM - 3 MR. HICKEY: clean air . We cao all g~t excited about pollut ion and I hope ve know vhc re to start •·hen we go to work on it . Sir, I ~o.·ou ld li!'. e to =ke ' a f(?w ::o cen ts on the Metropolitan Area Board . I belic•e there is a legislation t o be introd uce d and I run the r isk of being t epe t i tio us but 1 f eel obligated to cover it again . I b elieve last session I discusse d t ~is oa:tel and I again bring it to th e attention of the Government.

The people of t he ~err o p ol i t an Board are q_uite reaso nable and I thir.k ! was misqu oted las t year by s~r.te ­ body, I was quoted as having attacked th e Metro politan Board and t he people a t Metropo~i t an Board . This is certai nly furthest from ~y mind be caus e I have bad every kind of co-o pe ration from t hose people as far as t-hey can go under the regulations that they have to 1611

HR . T.HIC>:!cY: that they h3VC to op~rnt~ under. The fault I find is with those regulation::.. I think Sir, sor.1;othing has to be done about corrmunities which ar~ left out of the oetropol~ti"'n ar e a. l think that the restrictions in regards to building have to be relaxed !:O ffi ·~•~hat because at the present tir.1e it i~ so difficult to get a building permit in certain s ections along high~ays and it forces people into a co=uni ty ~;hich is already heavily oo!'ulated, or in some cases overly populated. In areas where there are already an acute pollution problem.

I am sure His Honour the Dep:.1ty Speaker could agree, bcca~.:sc, right in his ovn ... . · . : : · district he has so;Y" areas I am sure which ha·/e the same problem. I think this problerr. is bt':ing further aggravD.ter.l by our policy t-rith regards to permits along the highway, and along the general a"ea bounding on those communities. I feel that sor.1ething has to b~ done and done quickly. Supposing we find additional ~pace, or we drag a road up from the main -his:;ht·!ay to provide space, to r:rcvide Crown Lands for people who cannot get rermits on their O"<.'Il land.

I r~call a couple of year a~o in this House, I raised this same · matter and the then Mirdster of Nuni<;ipal Affnirs in ans,..er to a question told Jre that where a pe=it is refuse:i by the :-r~tropolitio?.n Eoard, or li<! . under the prctective roads regulations, and a suitable buildinci let woulc be offerad or would be found ior that person. loow 'Hr. Spea!<.er, 1 have had numerous cases where people have been refused, and "<."here they have no other land to bui':.d or..

I ca~not honestly say ttat each and every one of them en~uired about an alternate site~ but I do knoW' that So'lle of them ciid, and I do know that I dld on their behalf. I have yet in all of those cases to find one who have had their problem settled or solved by b~in& gran~cd a~ alt~rnate ~ite on ~hich to build a horne.

And Sir, •-hen 'I.e tclk of &"1 acute sho&:ta6e of h'Jusing, su.-ely we c:iln take a se::onci loo:(. at reguldtio~~ which prevent p~ople from building their home and shelter for their fa.t"&ily on the only piece of land that they :.ave •·hen they can~ot afford to purchase an alternate site. ;.'e are doing very little to help the housing , shortilge when •e carry on like that. fu•d so Sir, 1 look for~ard tc some changes, some proposals for change in the regulations p~rtaining to t;1e Metropol it ian Area Board.

I •.rould again 1 ike to say that those people t•orking there have a very difficult job to do and any connectior: that I have had with them I received every cooperation, and scmetir.es they are very ~uch bla~ed in the wrong. I think too Sir, something has to be done with regarc!s to the cleaning 1 r.1 2

A;>ril 7, 1970, Tape 363, Pag<: 2 -- ;;;pb up of certain areas, and I cannot quote the regclaticns that cover this ?~~~!cular ¥~~~1~,,, hue ii there is not enough teeth in the regulations then there should be some put in there, because some of our cocntrysicie is being desecrated. It ~ould appear that those people who desperately try to improve the situation by pleading with the o~~ers of those praperties, whatever attempts they make·,• their suggestions, their requ e f:ts, just seei;J to fall on deaf ears.

I have some in my o~T. constituency, I r~alize fully that I tread on very thin ice, ar.d I ma~e some bad friends in saying so, but, I think the general a';)pearance of our countryside is more important and_: I am prepared to certainly state that sonething should be dane fcrth'.Jith. ¥J. Speaker, I vould like to cover a couple of problems in my district before closing. Sir, on a couple of occasions I brocght up a matter of permits in the Pippy Park. Ferm:!ts to extend the existing t.'ealth,:_improve or extend. Hr. Speaker, somebody has his l<ires crossed.

I have 'had the unfortunate experience of having ~hree days off for using a certain word in this llouse. I certainly do not care to look for another three days, but, there is something wrong; I have been told right in this ChaGber that while at one time it t.'as the policy of the Govzrnment that no pecmits would be givE;£ to extend or improve homes in the park area (I believe that :!s it now. I stand to be corrected) but one answer I certainly recall. I am not sure if it came from the hon. minister or the Premier.

I knot.' the Premier gave me one particular answer on one occasion, and tha~ was that I vas co~laining about some peo?le, certain people living in that area who could no~ get a . permit to install services in their homes, while on the other hand t:h~y could not get the Government to purchase their homes. They were willing to sell and move out, and barring that they wan:ed to improve tneir hooes if they were going to have to stay. Now surely that is a reasonable as people can be, either one thing or the other. If we are not going to let them improve their homes, in s~me cases install bathroom facilities.

Then surely goodness we can fir.d the money to purchase that property and let them get out. I know of a case right now and l am sure there are others probably, that have not been brought to my attention they just consider it a waste of time to try to fight the Government on chis matter anyway. I know of one particular case right now where the property will not be purchased, for obvious reasons, I do not agree with this. I ao sure the Government realizes, Knows what they are doing as to 1613

ap~1~ 1, J~1u, rape JDJ, raee 3 -- apo what properties they want to purchase, and 11hat prop~rtics they can purchase. They need an extension, apparently because of the size of their ~~~ily. TI1ey were refused. ~ow the question I ~ould like to raise is , just what does the Government wish to do? Surely you cannot place people in a situation where they have to live in quarters which are too small when they are finar.cially capable of i~proving it, when the Government will not purchase their porperty.

Now I ,..ould say t:hat it :!.s reasonable that if t"ll.e Govern~ten t does not want to purchase at this time, then let thero extend or let them ir.tprove. Always with the understanding of course, that they will get back at least the cost of any extension or improvement. I ~~auld be the last to 'l.gree l<:ith imrpoving their property to fake money, to hold the Government up for a large sum. HON. J.R.Cfu\LKER (Ninister of Public \-larks): Would the hon. member penni t a quest~ on? MR. HICKEY: Yes, certainly MR. CHALKER: The places you are refe'rring to, ~he han. gentleman is speaking about Mr.

Speaker, are they on the periffieter of the park, or are they well · '1dthin the park? The reason I state that ~lr. Speaker is b~cause of the fa..:t that I kno,.,. in areas on the pc1:imeter o.f the par!<: 10e have allowed them to extend their houses and put in facilities. It was run by a cc~mission by the way. MR. HICKEY: ~lr. Speaker, in ans~er to the ~on. minister's question,the family that I am referring to at the moment are certainly wi.thin the park. fhey 01re ' not on the boundary. No"W that is as I understand it. I am not told th2t th~y are, they are right i~ the park, but I can ce4~ai?lY determine this.

I arr. sure that he is as anxious to solve this problem as I am. I will be g~ad to get addi~ional information and pass it on to him. I would sincerely ask him to do what he c&~ to help this par~icular family. Mr. Speaker, the roads in that area are becoming a constant source of complaint with me. I was hoping that so@ething would be done with ~hose roads. They are so near the city, and being in a park I would think, or would have hoped that they ~orould have been paved or something would have been done ~~th them.

They are in a very poor condition and I think it would not hurt if we ran a grader over them a little more often. I.f we can ••••••••.•••• 161<1

April 7th. 1970 Pl\.- 1 HR. THO:"~"S HICKEY: Before I get off the p <t r;~s, Hr. Spe .?.t:er, I would l:!ke to~ again for about the t wenieth time I thh: k in t his He-use, s;.:;;cest to the ~ . Govern ::tent to do the most sensible thin g th ey/ ever done in the t >.'enty-one years they h;;ve been in office, that t hey giv e consideration to a prov i ncial park in the east end, along the !f.;~r:!ne Drive. One of the r.:cst scenic . spots I say in the Province, there might have been so:::e places I have not seen, I will have to take my cha:;:1ces on that, but I have sec:1 n fair ar.ount of · our problem.

I have seen a fair ar.:ount of beautiful spot s , scenic spots, maybe I am a little prejudice,sir. I do not think any one can,rleny that one of the most scenic sections of our Provine<! is the Harine Drive. And I think, Sir, it is ashar.",e that something is not being done to cater , ~to tourist traffic in that area. 1 vould say, Sir, that it is easy to count the number of people who visit St. John 1 s or the east coast, vho do not see the llarine Drive. The area of Logy Bay, vell.the whole area, quite a vide area could be included, I would commence at a point in Logy Bay, and the roa d to Cape St. Francis.

What a vould prevent this area being included in/provincial park? MR. CHPJ.KER: Very scenic. MR. HICtEY: Pardon? !JR. Clilo.LKER: I say it is a ":/Cry scenic.place. fC.. HICKEY: Yes. Hell, Mr. Speaker, aot only \lo!llu it be advisable to embark up.:>n a project such as this, but agai>1 it would solve one of the problems that I mentioned earlier, and that is t:1e way our countryside is bein8 descrated vith old cars, garbage an~ rubbis!;. and everything ef that type. MR. CF.ALKER: Unfo.:tunatelyJth:;t is x::reva!ent right througho·.tt the Pro•liacc. ~fR. HICKEY: I am sure it is.

But, I think, Sir, t!1at it i:; even more unfortunate vhen you find in an are~ such as !.he ~!arine D;:ive, where tourists are attracted to,that \oe more or less tP-11 t.hem really ho'W we live and ho1o1 ve tear up the ccuntryside, and ho~ ve hQve such little appreciation for it. There is a

section in Logy Bay where I am sure is a great percentar-e of tourist ~ould go, and it is a complete disgrace 'With cld cars and junk, everythit!)!: under the sun. Mr. Speaker, I do not think th~re is eve~ as much as a picnic table in that area. There is another area, ~~ddle Cove Beach, ~hich is a great attraction during the summer months, and it attracts thousands cf people during the week. MR. CHft~KER: During the caplin school. HR. HICKEY: Right. There is not as much as a place there to cook up or to have 1615

April 7th. 1970 Tape 364 PK- 2 a lunch or a snack. .... + 1.--..J -- ............... . ... 'L._ ..... -'- --... ,eo~ ... !o.UCj ..all "No Lion··, I guess beyond Middle Cove Beach, -.,.!:ich stretches rip,ht do·.m to the sea, and that too, Sir, attracts thousands of people in the su~er. But, if one is to travel this entire area, there is not one spot that a car can pull in, and find or a picnic table and enjoy the afternoon, or take it easy or have a lunch/~hatever they \l'ant to do. I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, that the Government could do much worse, and look into this matter.

I am told that there has ~ecn a survey. The Premier ~~. Speaker, he should be listening. MR. SMALLlWOD: I told the hon. gentle>man, }lr. Speaker, I vould not need to listen, I could read it. But I c~<not hear. MR. HICY~Y: U~fortunately, Mr. Speaker, I do not write speeches. That is the reason ~rhy I am 'not so good at it. I do not, this is "Why_ my speeches are boring, you see. HR. S~~LLWOOD: Now, the bon. gentleman is getting interested. The minute he begins to get angry, he gets interestin~: MR. RICKE.Y: Mr. Speaker, I do not mind going over it a~ain, if he can tell me he can do something about it. MR.

SMALUTOCD: well, vhat is it first? )ffi. HICKEY: Would you agree to do ~hat I asked? MR. ~!ALLWOOD: The ..-ord "you" is unparliamentary. MR. HICKEY: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, MR. Sl1ALLWOOD: Would the Prer.ier agre~. MR. RICKEY: Will the Premi~r agree to do vhat I aske~? MR. SMALLWOOD: well, te!i ~e fir~t vhat it iE? MR. HICL-"Y: Will he a~ree first. MR. SHftlLWOOD: Well t~ll me first "What it is, no pig in a poke. MR. HICKEY: I would like to have a provincial park on the }2rine Drive. KR. S~AI.LWOOD: I am all for it. MR. HICKEY: The Premier is all for it. MR. 5~1ALLHOOD: I a:n . .all for it. MR.

HICKEY: Hy goodness, Y.r. Speaker. MR.S}~I.WOOD: No~ no big national park now, 1!i1u

April 7th. 1970 PK. - 3 MR. HICKEY: No, no, no, no. 1-!e do not have any big ideas like that. We '-'ill settle for less th~~ that. MR. S~fALLI<.'OOD: Is the hon. gentle man thinking just cf a moderate 'lo!ildcrness park? MR. RICY~Y: A provincial type. ~m. S~~LWOOD: A provincial wild~rness park, not a big SQphi~ticated park. Camping sites and so on. MR. HICKEY: If there is money to be had, and ve are to refuse it. :1-!R. SVoALL\JOOD: Like J;>OSt• of our provincial vilderness parks, we have about thirty-eight of them. :HR. HICKEY: ---- -·- · Nr.

Speaker-; there is a lot to be said for it, and the previous Minister of Mines, Agriculture and Resources, the hon. gentleman who is presently hospitalized, certainly had this in ~ind, and I believe had some vork done on it. But for some r~ason or other, he did not manage to get it done. ~~ybe sooeone f.,und out he was going to put a park tliere, and they change him and gave hie another portfolio. Bt!t seriously, ~!r. Speaker, I '-'Ould suggest MR. SK~L~OOD: If the hon. gentelman drew a line from say Topsail to the Battery, is there no park north of that2 "MR. HICKEY: N!l thing. ~!R. St<.ALU.;QOD: There is not.

MR. RICKE~: There is not even a picnic table. 1m. S}~LWOOD: And it would be very good for St. John's, you have a big population, and it would be a nearby park. It sounds pretty sensible to me. MR. HICKEY: ~~. Speakerl there is no doubt about it~ it is a pr.ime area for a ~oark. MR. ~~~wOOD: I will ask my colleague, when he gets back from Ottawa to take a look at it. The Minsiter of ~~nes. ~CKEY: Nr. Speaker, I am sure the people in that area will appreciate it very much. MR. S~t~L~OOD: I only said, take a look at it. HR.

HICKEY: We would appricate it, if he would take a look at it because we are confident and we know it would follow through, "if he looked at ~. What I am conplaining about is that somebody has not looked at this. 1617

April 7th. 1970 Fk - 4 MR. s~:ALUi'OOD: There is a little thing kno~.'!l as a "budget". HON. J.. R. CUP..TIS: (MINISTER OF JrSTICE): ~>'ith no cro>.-n land there, there is not ouch. M:-<.. SHALLl{OOD: Is there much crovn land in that area? !-LR.. HICKEY: I do not think so, Hr. Speaker, there is some. HR. S}lALUWOD: But it is vild and uni~porcved, and it should not ·cost too r.uch. MR. RICKEY: I vould not think so. RON. JO~ A. NOLA!-:: (l!I.!USTER OF SLTi'LY): ~culd the han. gentleman permit a question?

You may recall Sir socetime ap,o,whcn I vas speaking in the Heese I mentioned it n1ight be advisable to have a lake that would be stocked with trout for elderly people, and pro~rly supervised, I maintained at that time, if you will recall, MR. S}~LLYOOD: And school children. MR. NOLfu~: and school children principally, and those in the Rehabilation Centre, those in the old age home, the Hoyles Home and so on, might have a place to go. I was wondering if the hon. member would.consider this an zppropriate type of thing, just within a park such 2s he envisazes perhaps? MR.

HICKEY: It would be an excellent thing. }!r. Speake!'. MR. SXALUWOD: New she is start!ng to ?ay. KR. HlCK~~ There are several s~all lakes, s~ll ~onds. in this general area, acd certainly cocld be utilized for this purpose. 1618

April 7, 1970 Pa~e 1 Hl't. HICKEY: the Pre:'lier >lill want to hear. HR. SMALL\WOD: It sounds o~inus. MR. HICK<.Y: I am sure he vill. Just a friendly reminder of a promise he !!lade to me and the people of Harbour Vie•: Avenue along the Tor bay Road. MR. SXALU<OOD: Harbour View Avenue. MR. HICKEY: A small bit of pavement would do their hearts ' good. MR. SMALI.\..'OOD: And their feet too I ~moss. ~~en I die you are goin~ to find graved on rny heart. Soneone will find it. "!orR. HICKEY: ------ There are only a few roads ~!r.

Speaker, in this general area that need paving, and it goes without saying Sir, that those roads are important, very important. The ~!aior's Path is one, I am sure the Minister of High~ays is quite familiar with that. The last time I heard there were about twenty women taking turns phoning the department trying to get so~e- thing done. Eut this road Sir is . a verv imrlortant road, there is a lot of traffic on it. It is the main access of the St. John's Airport, and certainly the Government would be ~ell advised to pave that road. We would not complain about it, we would be deli~hted to have it done.

But the oeople of Harbour View Avenue really expected to have that little bit of pavement, I ~~ suTe is not longer than two-tenths of a mile maybe, thre~-tenths of a-mile. And a petition was presented in this hon. House I believe about two years ago, and were promised that something would be done. But the potholes are still there. I hope the Premier ~e~rd thqt bit about Harbour Vie~ Avenue. I am coming to the best part of my speech. Nr. Speaker. I could not finish sneaking withcut saying something about the Battery.

Peonle of the Battery were very disappointed to find-that there were no plans, at least no immediate plans to do anything for them. I am not to suggest.Sir, t:hat Corner Brook and Mundy Pond, do not deserve the improvements that they are going to get, and indeed Blackhead Road. All of thosP. areas are in need of services, and they have as much right to them as the people in mv district. But for the longest time Sir, there· · have been studies gone on and studies made, surveys made.

There has been promi~es, and indeed co~~itments from the local government, the municipal government, the Federal Govern~ent, and Provincial Government, that something would be done. Now approximately J.· \ ·- ~ 1619 -_,.

two years ago, a concerted effort was made to bring all narties to~erher, 1-.--- .! __ ,,._~v.-..••,1.:., -L -- -- - ~ ,_ 11.11"-Ul .,;~.._,u,,._ L t keeping them fro:::1 reaching so:ne kind of 2f;t"eec:ent. And t\1e;e vas a firm cor.-.::Jitme:lt at that time, that that big probl<Om would be tackled and would be solved, Sir, it seems all of this is r.one by the wayside. RON. J, R. CHALKER (~!inister of Public Works): I wonder if the hon. gentleman would p~nnit a question?

Is it not a fact that the National Harbour Board are more or less controlling that entire area, and that no building or no construction can go on except on a part-ti:ne or a short-time basis? MR. RICKE'!: Mr. Speaker, if that is the case, it is very very recent. The National Harbour's Board. as far as I can Jearn, are naturally interested in the coastline around the Batter y area, hvt does certainly not control building in the Battery or near the Battery, or anything of that nature.

As a matter of fact, the ch~irman of the Board vas verv much involved in the meetings and talks that vent en in connection with the Battery. And the only federal authority that I know of who has some plans for the Battery, or who ~ould like to do something with 'the Battery is the Parks, the National Parks, :</hen a survey or stu<ly "'as done, I believe it was an urban rene ..... al st'!dy of the cv~r-all gt:oneral ar<?2 cf the East .:nd. Some year'> <\go, '61 '62, they suggested that ~oss1bly the Battery might be vacated included in the National Park. They suggested I believe. Sir, that the inner sectinn or the

section closest t~ the City might be used for a hi~h-rise parkin~ b\lllding or som-ething of that natnrt.. And tha&: the outer

section of the Battery be just included and maintained as evlde::1ce of a:~ old fishing community. Now over anC: :;obov~ that I do not tt.ink a<1yor.e has control of building exce~t the municipal people. The only thing Mr. Speaker, I can say. I realize that there is. three levels of government i'lvolved here, but S!r, it is high t5.me that somebody took the initiative on the 3attery ques~i~n, because those people zs I have said so many times, live under most extreme conditions in winter. Tr.ere will be la!:!dslides again, just as sare as I stand here. MR.

CHALKER: Is 11: a fact that I am familiar '-'ith the Ratterv? Is it a fact that where the fishermen are located n~w, that is Ray Riche and the rest of those boys. that it is not a suitab]e place for fishing due to any wind, I think it is northeast or the so'-!thwesc .,ind to be havoc detm in that area? And would it not be better fer t·-,e,.-. f·Ir. Speaker, to try and relocate 1620

April 7, 1970 Ta;>e ii365 s o~c~here , ~here t~e ~ater is calrner·and b~tter to set'~ce their bo~ts? 1 believe if t he decided co move, or t he majority decided to move out of t he Battery vhere there is landslides and s no#slide area is al~~ys haopening about every th~ee or four years . MR. BICKE'!: No1.1 ~IR . Speaker , tc. the first p.art of the quest .ion asked by t be hon. Ministe r . It is a very difficult area to fish fro m, and t he a~unt of d~~ase to boats , equip~ent andnats. and ~hatnc.t, cercair~y is i ndicative of th:lt.

They vant any kind of devo!lO?::!en~ at the Battery vould i ncl ude a breakwate r of some type, and I understand t hat there has bean some surveys dcne on that , and it is feasible , it can be done . It is a difficult one , b ~t i t c an be put the re. And I am told fairly reliable resourc~s 1621

April 7, 1970 Tape no. 366 PAGE 1 except for the fact that there was a ch,.n!!e of Government in Otta,.·a at !, a certain point, there would have been a b::-cak-.. :ater go there. Now- those plans, I am sure, are still available and whether or not this is true is something else, but my infor~;tion comes from - my source is fairly reliable and this is the info~tion that I have. The people of the Battery supported it. With regard to the other part of the question about moving, the

section the hon. minister refers to is called, "Outer Battery", the lllr:lin fishing community and all but one family agreed to move, as a result of the survey I made personally. All but one and that one was just sort of undecided. It could be said that all of them vould. Now, Mr. Speaker, they have definite plans as to what they wan~ to do or vhere they> want to go. They w-ant to move for obvious reasons because of the s~o.- slide. They want one of two things, if they move.

They want their communi~y preserved and improved as a fishing co~unitJ or if this cannot be done, then they want an alternate site somewhere between Outer nattery and Te-.:c.perance Street, in other words, in that se-:tion. They did have a. particular spot in mind. I do not kLow if it is available nov or not. Certainly they are very, very determined and they know exa~tly what they want. One would hope, Mr. Speaker, that sooner or later they ~ill 5et what they '1-Tant, becau.::;e these people are a ver; industrious and hard working people. They are certainly not dependent on anybody for a livlihcod.

They are very produc~ive. The fishery of the Battery runs something like 7 million pounds annually. I do not think that this is just something that we can close our eyes tc in terms of wiping it ou~ ~sa fishing community. I- would like to see something done about that area and when one goes back over all the talking that has.gone on, all the surveying and s~udying thac has gone on and the promises that have been cade to these people~ ~ne begins to wonder vhere . they get the courage to carry on, to continue - where they get the courage to produce, if they are produced. Mr.

Speaker, while I am speaking about the Battery and the fishery in that area, I would also like to mention the Act that has been so widely discussed by some of the people from the Battery, "Tue Fish Inspections Act", o;:hich 1622

ve are told will prevent the fisherm~n fro"' selling t heir fish fro::. the coves ar..d the whar ves and what not. Or:e can 2.gree, Sir, that there is a need for improve:;;ent in the sale of fish in t hose areas. MR. SPEAKER: I have tc advise the hen. member that time is up. MH .• S~!ALL'.~OOD; Can the hen. gentlec-.an finish by 6:00 p.m. Jr.R. HICKEY: Yes, Mr. Speaker, that will just do it. MR. SHALLJ..'OOD: I am sure that the House would like to hear him. }!R. HICKEY: Thank you, Sir. I 1o:ould suggest, }lr.

Spea ker, that "-'hile it is necessary that sorething be done ab('lut the sale of fish in Steers Cove and those areas. Yet it is not really fair to prevent tho s e people from selling their fish until ~e have some kind cf alternate plan, until we have so~e other a vay for them to sell it. Quite nu~ber of fishe~en are involved in this, not hundreds or c.n:;zthing like that. There are a number of people involved in it. They depend on it and this gets back to the old problem of the fish Jtarket for St. John's.

I thin~ that the municipal people a,e, at least, seeming to be dragging their heels on this ~tter, because ~ith the amount of fish that is landed and ~ith the pop<Jlatjon that ~e have in the Hetr:opolitan and the City area, it is difficult to understand 'Why a fish market. or ~hy anyone \iOuld suggest that a fish market or a produce r.arket would not be a profitable venture. I feel sure that it V?uld be. I feel sure that given hal.f a chance, it ~ould prosper. A category, Hr. Speaker, ~hich deserves sane co=en': is the villa2f!! - the community of Quidi Vidi.

Pcovle of this area have for years and years been without s~rvices. They are no~ part of the city of St. John's and have been for a number of years. As far as I can dete=ine, they have recei ·Jed little or· no benefit from the part of the city except for whatever taxes might be collected in that area. The road there, Sir, is in a ridiculous state. Tnere is little or no water services. There is a hydrant, I believe, in one section, no paving, no water, no sewerage and yet it is part of the city and bordering on the national park that ~e boast about.

We boast about an increase in the number of people who visit that park during the past year. Mr. ~peaker, I would be certainly less than honest, Sir, if I did not express my feeling on this park admitting that it is a wonderful thing to have. It is wonderful to see that very expensive and attractive looking visitors' centre 1623

April 7, 1970 Tape no. 366 Pa~e: 3 ··~ on S!gna.l Hill. Admitting all of that, Sir, I would also say that it is a diserace and certainly very difficult to understar.d vhy the authorities vould develop this area in such a way. The city vatc!dng all cf t~is go on and apparently let it go on vithout too ~uch involvement, •ithout too much icprove~nt in the tuo areas that border on it; namely the Battery and Quidi Vidi. MR. HICKEY: Hr. Speaker, two years ag(; the :Premier tried to conYince me that it ~o.•as ''Kiddy Viddy." . MR..

S}<..ALU10~D : The hon. gentleman should not violate the historic verities or the historic propritfes. "Kiddy , Kiddy and V.i d d y, Viddy", is the pronunciation not the spelling. "Kiddy v;_ddy." MR. HICKEY: Mr. :Opeaker, there has ju:<t been an extension to the rules. MR. SHALLI-'00D: "Kiddy Viddy." I ·. MR. HICKEY: When I get stuck iu fut1.!re, I will knov vhat to stand up for. At any rate, Mr. Speaker,if the Prel:lier w-ould C:o what he promi~ed to do this afternoon, I vill say "Ki.:l.cy Vi,h1y." Mr.. SWJ.LWOOD: Is th-3.t a promise?

That is a dcal1 "rhe bon. gentleman will call it "Kiddy Viddy." MR. rtiCK1~: I told hi~, $ir, if he looks, he will clo wrat I asked. That if: fair eno-ugh. }~. Speaker, ir is ti~e that something w~s done fo~ those tyo-areas. ~~!le ve are advertising Signal Hill and everything that is historic about it and c~rtainly v~ can a!l be proud ~f it. We 3re also advertislng t~o are~~hich, I W"ould say, are possibly the most lacking in vital services of possibly any part of. the Province. Right 1624 .. /

• • p.;.. ......... • ... • • - .. -.... - -. Ut'l L~a; tUi:!,t:: o; l.he Capi l.al Cir.y. J: WOU.1.G JUSt 1 ike to ~ay Sir~ that t,.'hile ~,e all can get exeited about visitors centres and city halls and ever:ithing else 'lo.'C can also, we ~ould also get very excited if 1-•e lived at the Battery or Quidi Vidi or any other place which lacks the services that those places lack. I will hope ~r. Speaker, that so~eone, some area, some level of authority would see the Ught and find it profitable fo! the city of St.

John's as well as the Province to do someth in~ about those: - two p::oblems, to attend those two areas because it would seem to ne th~t when our tourists r,o Signal Hill they must obviously look down from both sides and wonder just who is runnin~ this city, who is running this province, who is permitting this kind of thing to go on.

I know for a fact that tourists have gone to the Battery taken p~ctures of some of the worst homes that are there, taken pictures of housewives carrying a bucket of water or getting a becket of water from the hydrant. ~nat a comparison it must be when those peoole return to ~herever they come from and they sho~ the pictures, the glnmorous visitors centre on the one hand, and in a year or so now our new citv hall. They show the pictures of the services that ve have at the Battery, it makes us wonder. Mr. Speaker, some other things that I h4d to cover but I will oo so when ~~e take

part in the budget debate. 1 wnuld jutt like to say in cqnclusion I would hope that hon. ne6bers would try and hold their teilipers as I hold mine instead of getting excited, using language th~t they should not use, I certain!;; do not, I use some and I found out what ha!=pens tvhen one uses this kind of language. I tried very hard tu make certai:-1 other people reme!Tlber that. I would say that politica, and political parties are important Mr.

Soeake:>:, but as individual members and Newfoundlande-rs we are bigger than any political party, we are birger than any rift or dividin~ line and usually when ~empers flare,words are uttered that I feel at least that7they were back they would not have been uttered, and so I would end on that note Sir, and I ~Jould hope that may be we can get back to the rules of the Hause because we have strayed ~onp, way. We have strzyed more from the rules in this session than in any'session that I have taken pa:>:t in. ':::hank you, MR.SPEA.XER: It is moved and seconded that this debate be adjourned.

It being now 6 o'clock, I do now leav~ the Chair until 8 o'clock. 1625

• r PROVINCE OF r•E~ FOUNDLA ND AND LABRADOR HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY Volume 1 Number 28 4th . Session 34th. General A~embly VERBATI~JI REPORT TUESDAY, APRIL 7,1970 SPEAKER: THE HONOURABLE GEORGE V'l. CLARKE

The House :.esu::-.e3 at 8:00 P,tl, MR.S~J\LIY\10 : 'fr. S;:>e-aker, before Your Honour calls for the d!>bate to l>c resumed, I 1o.-onder if I could have your :!.ndul<>,ence, <Jnd the incul!!ence of the House to express in behalf of the House a ~>ord of -...arm. tJe} '"~'"•C to ~o:">e 25 beautiful young ladies fro;n Hesley U:1:itcd Church, C.G.I.T. (C<JnaGi;:l~l Girls In Training) a group of 25 of c '.G.I.T. Girls fro!!\ t'csley Unite•! Churd: ir• charp;e: of Hiss ~:argaret King.

They h:we come ho:::c toni~ht to check up on u.;; and see if we are passing JI:OOd la~~s for the Province, <ind see if we ap~ cond.1.::ting ourselves properly. They h<ive do doubt heard en the radio, that we are a very roudy crm.;d here in the House and they canT!ot understand t!hy pe ople elected to l!'.akc laws should be rowino;; or fi~htinp,. And so they !'!ave come I think I suppcse ~!r. Speaker, to check. on that and see just hm-1 r011dy we are,in fact. And then Mr. Speaker, I suppose they have cc~e also to see ho~ we function here, how the House of Assex;;bly actually operates and ho·~ laws are made.

I have ·to disappoint them. I do not think the:: '!.."ill see ar!y la<IS Dt;J::!e here· tonight.

They may see some laMs passed here tonir.;~t. l:hat is p,oin~ to happen at first is that there will be a couple of hon. members or one for sure \!ho is going to make a speech. !t . \.~al·be n ~ood speech.on the ,\ddr.:ss in Reply and then that ~robably will be all of that kind of speaking for tonight. then we will start passing lavs and then you should <:~ce .JS. , you ~hould see us pass~ng laws here in this Hous~. t~e will be passing them thrcugh, the Opposition will be urging us to make it faster, ~hey "Will not be criticizing anything.

They will not see anythin:; wrong with any of these latts t!tat we will brin:; in and everybody will be surprised by the beautiful ar.tity the ecu~enical spiritC~i~ati~g this Chamb~r,all exceot une, and they will go away with a 1'ery fine impression.

I am sure that the Oppvs!tion -the :1on. gentl~man who will speak for the O??osition - the Leade~ of the Opo~siti~n is absent fro"l the Chamber today, but sor.!eone \Till spe:::k for him and join · a~ree '-'ith me in every -.·ord that I have said, that thes~ ladies ar~ intelligent they are beautiful, they are t;onder ful :<evfoundland citiz~ns and tney are going to be deeply inpressed hy the Rouse, Now I dorc the Onposition to disagree with me, l dare them not to get up and agree with every ~ord I have said. MR.COLLI~;s: !-fr.

Speaker, I would like to join in echoing the Pre"lier 's remarks in vel coming the '1-.'esley United Church C.G. I. T. Grou?'. Hiss.~'faq;,aret King being in charge of t~e group. >!e vould like t~ ~..-elco::>e the;r. to the People's !1ouse 1626

HR.COLLHJS: '' I hope that they clid not cor.;e tonip_ht 1~ith t~e ur.c'erst,:Jr.cin~ th::1t this tnight be the last night session. We are hopeful th~t th~y ~ill be ~ble to come tonight, tcmorro~J r.ight and <?.very other ni?ht as long as this House is in session and I mean Sir, l:.o:.te at night, n0t in the r.:orning, not in the aftc-.:1toon but be able to come in the ni~ht. I hope that what they ~,rill see here tonight will be enlightening to them and that t hey will have the opportunity to come back a·ad visit: with us again. ·- HR.CROSBIE: Hr.

Speaker, since I have beco::;e a chief today I .... ~uld like to S.!ly a few words of welcome to Hiss Kinp, c.nd tlte C.G.I.T dcln~at.ior.. 'He are very sorry on this side of the House th:1t ~,oe cannot see the de le!'_\at ion but we. will .;~ccept the Premier's '"ord th.:J.t they are a very attr<>.ctive group, I am sure they are. If th~y stay for the next hour or so, I believe they are •' going to he.;~r a. continuation of that grerrt song t~z.t th-::)/ ~all l.he \:.lind "Uriah. ·• because the hpn. rnel'lber for Trinity South is s!)e:'.king here tonight.

I hope it is as s~eet as that song, althou<;ll th~ indic'ltion the hon. member gives is, that that might not be so. In any event, we on thls side, in this group Mr. Speaicer are glad to ~re] come the:<;e ladies, and we hope ttat they will continue to 7istt the Rouse from time to td~e • .!_ffi..C~Q.S!liE: Hr. S?eaker, ":ith your indulg:!'!ce the Evening Tclegra"' of today r.epvr:s that, on ?a;;e 1 ~ t:hac ~-tr .. Cr.:sbie. charg~d tha~ Opposit:io!"L motions \."ere c:enso~ed •.rhi!e l•overnrnet!: motions were allovred t:hrougr. unaltered, wj th refe<ence to Your Ho~our.

No~r, Your Honoar I do not rerneml',.,r vhet~er I said tbose exa .... t words lest night in a heated ~onent ~ut ~t may be ~hat I said something like lhat in any eo-Jent I ...,.o':lld l:!.ke to cleac the r·~c.ord.

I do nc>t t.~in;.; t'tat: Yout" Ho·aour ceils'lrs our moticns a;,lll no:: those ,,; the G:>vernmenl:. t'erhaps there shoul.d be "'o.:e c..:~-onerat:'co;~.bett·leen us om:i Y~JCU and our !l'otionS' alS'o but ! woulc . . - like to , !i I said somP.thir,g ~.ike that I. would likE to cor:rec!: it, because it would appear ::;~t y~u were bein~ ·grossly unfair of tha~ exact q~ot~tion of min~, so i.E it lJas ! 'lo.'O:.Il.:l .... ·ithcl!'uW.

I "Woul_d say I do not thi!lk Your Honouz censors our motions and not thos~ of the other side, and in future motions the ~ practise '1-lould be to clear them first, go over them first ~ith Your Honour and that is what I will do in the future. I ~.;ould like to correct that impression. MR.SPEAKER: I would like to tr.ank the hon. ::te1:1her for his explanation. Adjourned Dehate: ~fR.U , STRTCKu.:-:n :_ !-'r. Sneaker. fourteen vears ·1?0, with t= or three other' ITli:mbers that I see sitting in this H(')US:' :·o•<r ":;-,:--!"! Scrv.1.r,t -was given the 1627

·, passport to the honour aA well as to the responsihilit!es ~1nt arc attached to me1:1bershins in this House. I sov that for the simnle reason th~t I u~nt to pay a great tribute to tho hon. p;entl•~:cnn ,.he happened to be the -:l!OVer and the seconder of the motion th.:~t nermits TOe as ,.,rell as oth<"rs speak at this time in this House. The t~o han. gentlewan ~ere given their passport in the s~~e general election. .M1d all of us have wacched them operate.

They ha;:e participated in many of the debatf;S in this House and whi.le it :is'customary for every member speaking in a c:ebate of this kind to c.~ngratulate the hon. meobers who are p.iver. the job of rnovin~ and seconding this motion, I do not want to associate myself with it only because it is custor;~ZJrv. I !.'Ould like to think that the hon. gentleman made suc.h a contribution that they deserve my congratulations • Not hecause it is somethin.i! customary, t:hat is done in this F.ouse.

The t~<·o hon. r,entle1:1en in auestion, they have !1iven most of the adult years of· their lives to the neaple cf Newfoundland. I balieve I , arn safe on sayln~,first of all in the professional field, later on tn the civil service, then as . elc.cted memi>ers of this House and then later on as members of Her '!orajesty's Government. And if we had heard anything less from the han. r,entlemen on open:!.ng day then I person~lly would have been disappointed in the t~~ ~en. But belie•e me they lived up to their reputation and they eanvinced me that tney are l~C!ture politicians.

Politicians who do not get scc<red "'hen cct!Ji·~ wink assail tht! ship of state. Politicians who do r:ot run :;:way ,.,hen the going gets a little bit tough. Politicians who do not Near themselves out at im~~inary pu~ns vhen the bil~e keel is r:ry, 1.•hen the t:lank is sound. And whf>n the shi;l has ~ood stability and when she is really sea"'otthy they prove that t:hey are uot ~oliticians of that kin~, they do not lose their sea legs.

B~t they dedicated their lives, I believe, in the interest of the people of Newfoundland. ~nd they · know and they have knot."TI throu~h the years that t;1e man who plots the course of this ship of state he has one undyinR interest. And I believe ~very ~2n in this House, no matter where he sits will agree with me that the interest of the man who plots the course of the ship of state is the betterment of the people of NewfoundLand. I think his dedication is beyond compare.

And all that the skipper needs, men who ~ill not run away when adversity comes hut men who will give of themselves for the betterment of the hold not merely for personal ambition and gain. We want rnen who h2.ve. confidence in the future cf our Province and I an sure that 1628

April 7 1970 Tape 368 pa~~ 4. all of us ,on openio,:; day, we ~.:e-re ~ome~.:h'lt !>,:>.ddened vhcn we heard that two hen. gentlemen, the hon . memher for Trinity ~iorth and the hon. mc;nher for St. ~ary's declare that after the thir-ty-fourth Genero.l Assembly has expired -they ;dll no longer be seeking re-election to this Ron. House. 1629 -·

April 7, 1971J PaP,e l i·ffi.. URIAH ST_!!IC~L-~~:..'?_: 1-!e can only <.dsh them ....-ell on heha.lf of the people of Newfoundlc:nd. we thank them sincerely for their c<mtrihution, and we hope thilt the futu-:-e t.~ill provide srmethlng Hondcrful for them. ~!e )::egret th:1t they are not as well as they ..... auld like to be ph·rsic<:!llv, esoecially the ·hon. me!!lber for Trinity :<orth. l.'e do hope that a stay in hosni tal is of short duration, and that he vill soon be able to come back to this hon. House. Now Nr. Speaker, I am not going to get critical . . 1ust for the sake of being critical.

I am ni'lt going to do th<l.t. But ~·hen 1 cake •Jp a daily newspaper as I did on Febru'l.ry 17, and I read the following t-rord.c;, I have to reply to it. Not on behalf of the Government, because I do not speak for the Government, but I s~eak as an elected renresent<ltive of this House, and I have t? renly to it for myself. Hv conscience will not allou me to do otherwise. In the "Evening Telegram '' Tuesday, February 17.

I read the folloving . vords, 3nd I copied them carefully. ''Althou~h critical of Premier Smallwood and hi:<: Liheral administration, the t\o.'o fot11>er C<thioet Ministers",' and the Paper ~as meaning the h~n. ~entleman from Fortune Bay and the hen. member for Bu-:-in di&trict, ''stated yesterday that there :;re decent rr.en sitting on the Government side of the Legislature". We ap,ree <.~i th that and' ~~e add to it. that w-e know there are decent men sitting on the opposite side of the House 35 well.

But the thing that seemed to stir me uo, the hon. member for Burin said, and remember he was s~eaking about the memhers on this side of the House. He said, "they find themselves for personA.! rca:ons, trapped in the tentacles of this octonns of fear and f::ustration". I never thought the hon. gentleman would ever say it, because I want to tell thi.s House right nov, that the on~y fe<lr that I have is the fear of my God. I h~ve never met the man yet that 1 am afraid of. I have never bac~ed un from a man in my lif2, and a lot of them could ha~e noundcd me to nieces.

But I have yet to meet the man that I would hack up from. ~,d I have no fear, I am not frustrat~d, not a little bit in this worJ.d. I know ,.here I stand, and I kno•• vhat my conscience dictates to me. And I su~gest Sir, that no sincere man vill allow himself to be trapped in any tentacle of any o~topus that will 1630

April 7, 1970 MR. STRICKLAc:rJ: eventually destroy that man himself, whether it is ambition to become the lc3dcr of a party, v:hether it is the a;nbitioa to become Premier of the Pt:ovince, no matter what it is, no sincere man will allow hiEself to be trapped in the tentacles of this octopus. It is JV a wonrlerful thin?; to have ambition, and I admire a r.1an "'ho has it·, and I congratulate any man who has any a~bition in political, professional life, or any other life. And I do not think very much of a man who does not have ambition, especially "'hen that man is educated.

But I cannot see for the life of me, a sincere ~an allowing himself to be traoped in the tentacles of any octopus of fear. I cannot swallo<• that one at a] 1. I assure this House that I am not. I stand 'tonight a free rr.an, and I have p,iven a good manv testimonies in my Church, and I am ore;:> a red to give one ne<>'", but years a11:o I \ras a sla\•e, the worst kind of a one. But thank God that day is passed, and tonight I am free, and I ha ... ·e yet to meet the man th<tt I au. afrai rl of, whether he is inside politics or outside politics. And I have not any fear.

The ho~. p.:t>ntl~rnan s~i.d that "'House me!'lber5 "lUSt n-:>t bec~'!le sirn?le slaves to part} politics"'and I agree with that. But I am not a slave, and I speak for n.yself and every other gentler:tan in th~.s House. I in1a11;ine he has God-given bra{ns to speak for himself. I affi not a slave to party politics.

But I have a conscience. ~nd by the way, I looked up the meaning of the word "conscience" ::md this i:; what one dictionary says, "The sense of t:~e moral goodness or blameworthiness o£ oae's own conrluct, intentions or character, tog2ther with a feeling cf obli~at!on to do right or to be good." And Mr. Speaker, ! have one desire in this world, and that is to do right. And.my conscience is not for sale at any price, and no ~n car. buy it. Politicians, and I think I said this before.

Pc:·liticians and legislators are not isolationists living awav from the main stream of humanity, but rather as politicians we are stewards of manv of the requirements of human bein~s. ~ suppose· Sir, that ! see as manv people here in this building, who come in from own district, the district which I have the hor.our to represent, as any other member in this Hou5e. As hi~h this vear already as twenty-five in one day. ·.~ot a da·~ passes, but what snmebodv co;y,es to see me. And ! am 1631

Jl.pr1L I, L':JIU l'ar.e -' conscious in every cas<'" th::!t I -'lr.t smce~-·h<~ t .-.esponsihlc for r.tany of the requirements, or at least to attc~~t to reeet the rc~uirewents of the ocople who have elected rne to this hi.gh honour. I do not believe, and 1 have never heen able to subscribe to this theory, and I hope and pray· God that I will never live long enough to subscribe to it.

If we cannot have one quality of justice for the rich and the pm.•erful, and another Quality for the Door ?.nd the ~-reak, and the sa~e courtesy I would extend to the man with the million dollars, I will extend to a nan who is on relief. And ueople, let us ~et this clear Hr. Speaker, that people 10ho live in the ourports of this Province, they are not 5:trau, they are hum.;.n bein!!:s. And those of us they have sent to this Hc~se - they have sent us here to represent them in this House.

And as an elected representative of this House, I fully conscious of ~hat my res?onsiLilitics are, ar.d I want to live up to my responsibilities. I am deeply conscious Sir, that nublic opinion vill not tol~rate hypocrisy , And if we for~et our greatest commodity, which are human bein~s. we are hypocrites of.the grea~est mahnitude. And let me remind this House 51 r, that it is ne-t what "'re sa;1 no rn;!t·ter if we are on this side of the House, cr the other side. It is not what ~e say not matter whether 'l.'e are on this side of the Hous!:, or the other .... Sl.ue.

It i:; not what we say as politicians, but it is what we rio And let me re~nd the H~use that actio~s always speak louner than words. Somebody sug~ested t;lis year already, :i believe I am safe in saying, that it was the hon. member for Gander, I ho]le 1 q•Jote him correctly. He sup.gested that possibly the r.overnment has run out of their ~reatest con~odity, "'~rd~. Now I hope I ~m quoting the hon. ge~tlem~n right. Rut if that is so, then I am delighted, because I woula rather be a governr.tent with action and less words, than in an Opposition who are full of nothing else only words.

We w~nt to be kn~~ for action with a mini~um of wcrds. I think it vas Sir .Winston Churchill tha:: said, ''any clever person can make plans for vinnin?; a \;ar if t:1at person has no responsibility for carryin~ them out." And I su~~est that we have peoole in this Ho~~e that can make plans, they are a ~=eat crowd of planners, but if they were ~fqen the responsibilities that the Premier of this Province has, then I think it would be ~ different Guintal of fish alto~ether. 1632

JW April 7, 1970 Pa)!'.C 4 Let me say a vord about the Premier. So~ehody is r.oin~ to say the "wind of Urian," again. All ri~ht, if it is wind, accept it. You have to have wind to s2il. If you not got wind, you are stagnant. Perhaps that is ~hat is wrong ,..i th the Opposition, they hav.:! not ~•ind enough. I am douhtful if the hon. gentleman "'onld knO'-' a bilge if he s;;.w one. The hon. gentleman is a go0d la~~er, hut when it comes to a seaman he has a lot to learn, and I cGn educate him. nedication, the Premier beyond comDarison or parallel in the interest of N~•· >foundl;md and her people.

In assuming o~fice twenty years ago, more than n:enty years ag<', the Premif'r of this Province kneu that the greatest of all the challenges that confronted him, was to lift the living standards of our pecple. And with his burnin~ desire for industry, .to bring industry . here, he made mistakes and We would be absolute fools to say cthenyise. He made mi~takes, hut I sug~est to this House S~r. that in the sa~a set of circumstances every other human hein~ would have mada mistakes. And some of them would have made 11-reater mistalces than he h2s ever made.

And the man t:ho tr.inks othen~ise is vain, stu;>id, or full of cancerous e~o, which is hij!;hly malign~tnt. And w~ all know· ~.-hat can happen to anvthing that is malignant, and he who thinks otherwise i~ right full of this kind of ego. I do not think there is a sinc:!re person in this Province \.'no doubts the ded~cation and sincerity of the Premier of this Prnvince. And what I cannot understand, I have never been able to under1"tand it, tli.at only now, since the leadershin convention everythin~ is wron~ with the Government. ~~ereas two or three ygars a~o, there \.'as ~othir.j!; wrong,evervthing was ri~ht.

And it has not gone wron~, it has not ~o~ten sour as quickly as that. If it is wrong now, it vas wrong vears ago. Al1.d •1hy din we not hear more about it? 1633

April 7th. 1970 'Tape 370 PK - 1 MR. STR!Cn~ID: and if there is one thin g that I \Jould like to see in this Province mere than anythinr, else, :lf the pccple of Nc1-'fou.'1dland t.;i!nt to erect a monument to this great little !'!an ~:hen he is gone, that is all right. But, I would rati1er re;::ernber the Premier of this Province, by a movement rather than by a mor.=.ent. And I sur.eest to this House, Sir, that the mo,..encnt . is already started.

The n~ovcnc:nt that -will take the peopl c out o£ the hell of proverty, that they lived in so long, th~ poor, the maim, the · halt, the blind, the people ~ho had no clothing, orly flour s2cks yez:rs ar.o. T!-.e people 1-'ho h<>.d no shoes, the movement of our people, towards a better way of life.• Hith this man leading the movement. That is ho'.· I would like to remc:>.:!:-cr hit!l, the !;!;m t..·ho led the people of Newfoundland gut of ~rove~ty int~ a fairly decent standard of living.

I congratulate him sincerely from the bott~rn of ny heart for ~~at he has do~e, and I hope and and prey, !hat if it be in the t..•ill of Divine Providence ·;. that he vill be spared for quite S•'m.etime to come. NoW', then Sir, this is a Thrc.ne Speech debate, I •.,-ant to get into the Throne Speech for a few minu~es, First of all, it 1~ o~ly going to be a r~nning co~2nt, Paragraph t~ree, ~h~t :re Ne~~oundland'~ chances a•d ou= opportun~.ties?

Civen coun•~e, intellir;ence ar.d patr:i:otis::!, ll'aking full use of our resources of ~nen and materia] s. 1-..'h<:i: er~ ~:e•:foua~l;:;nd: s ch"'.nc.es? w'l:iat are her opport!l.'"d .ties? Haw Go •.;e 101ake full use. Si~·. of wur p.reat resource:.of men? Certainly by not k~eping them C'il relief. That is not Lhe right. waf t-> n::~ke full use o!: the r:!sourccs of the men of this Province. !~~11 ho•.v can ve stop tltem from living on =eli~f7 ~ere i~ only one ~n~~er to that,and that is gain full employment for the peo?le of th1s Pr~vince.

This Gover~Tent ~ faced with ryne o= ~o alternatives, l!'.ayh~ th~ third one. But, ..-e have gvt: to f2:nd jobs !"or the people of "e~o.foundland, no :n<l.t'::e::- the cost, ,..e get ::o Hnd jobs for t~e people of this Province, or we haye got to find them l!loney to feed them on relief. One or the other. /l.nd if we feed the!!: so long on relief, if they c<~.n borrow passage enough and money enough to get out nf the Pr~vince, this ~s the third one ve will have a lot of people leaving the Province. We cannot make full use ~f our resources only by developr.ent, and developl!\ent memts jobs.

And jobs mean a good ~ay of life for our people. ~.d the opposite to that-is proverty and hards:1ip. And God \':r;o._;s, -we had far too :~ <tr: y '·e t,:-s cf that -..·ithot.!t !:Oir.g back to it. Nobody wants to go back to that. 1S3l

April 7~ it . 19 70 Tai>~ 370 PK -2 In Paragraph five, we :r.ust hold our populatio:1 ar..d establish tl<e conditions for steady ev<!n rapid inc:::~~s'! of oc·c nu;:,bel"s _ l-io' : do 1Je h-:.ld our population,to repeat 1.·hat I said a·!:",O!'oent aF!o, we find jobs, and jobs and more jobs for the people of 1\ewfoundland, if not \.:'c will lose th e m to the }~inland of Canada or else;.. ·her e . I varn this House, Sir, that unless !!t;Jployment keeps p_ace with the natural g:rm-7::h of our la:,cur force, 1\e-,..fou.-.c!land can never be the province that all of us, I would tniok, would likQ for it to be.

And no matter 1-·hat is said to the contrary, or -....ho says it. the "1-'hole truth is and nothing but the truth, o:;r ec.:>no~ic success in 1;-:!,.·found J.and •!ill depend on proc!u<:tive industry. Now, Sir, having said that I am going to say 6o ~ cthing else, .and a lot of people are not goinR to like it. And productive industry is a t~o-~ay street, maybe a three-w':'y• first of all, there rr:ust be Governnoent involvement. There must be involve~ent by the capitalist of the Province or of the country. And there must be involve rr:ent by the labour force of the~co~_try an~ this is the thing that irks ~e. Sir.

I cannot for the life of me, see a man, or any group of people "!o.'ho >1ill pay a minirr>~m~ vage rate, take advantage of the man's nece-;si <:y because he is poor, and pay out a minim·J~ "~<l age r<.1te and theu zt the end of the year declare dividents or profits in the hundreds or thouE3nis of d~llar~ or maybe in the millior.s. I think th"!re is something •,.Jrong with the company who would do this, they owe their work~rs _ something o~ the profits that ttey make.

No·..r having said that let r.1e get right ~ad: to lab v~~. the same i:J eqt.al:J true of a man who will acc~pt a good Late of wage3 and the~ will not g!v~ his employer good hcnest hours work for a good honest hours pay. It is a two-way street, let Newfoundland be the Province we want ~ . t to be, let us pay our :;-.en what we can af=ord to pay them and then for goodness sake !et our men give something back in return, as most of th~n do, ann I a~ happy to say that:, most of them do.

But it is a t~o or three-~ay street, and our capitalist ~h~ invest and I am the first to say that they should realize a fair profit on their investcent, and we should hav~ labou~ yorking to producing quality and q~anity, .. to ensure proper production in this ~ay, will sa~e guard, and a good way of life for the people of this P•ovince. Prosperity is a good thing Sir, it is too bad it is so expensive, and somebody must pay of it. And I fear in most cases, that the taxpayer pays for everything. Paragraph eight, we were told on opening day, I think it was, that we have 1635

and org~niz~:ions to ;.:!:o~ t:te ccor:.o:!lic futur.:: of our Provi: ·~ce Is of particular great groups that w!ll be invited to this extravapanze; Re~rescntatives of Local Eo a rds, Co=i t tees or Associations tt,at have sprung cp around the Province in recent yer.rs; rcprese:.tatives of Boar~s of Trade, Charr.bers of Commerce, l'l:mufacturers Associations, City and Town Councils; Nevfc.t!!"!dland Federation of Labour; :\eHfoundla:1ci Federation of Fisherr1en~ Agriculture Bodies and otl.en producers and orraniz:.tions: rep.res<>:-tta!:iv~s of the !Hning and Fishing, r::anufactur i r.(' industries, banks and other financial autr.~·rities, and repre.>cntati•:es also of various bodies that could be eJ,:-pected to be particularly concerned -:.lith th.? t:>.att~rs to be consider.ecl.

The Governcent of Canaca and the various departments of the r~e<:foun:Hand Govei."l\c.ent, will are be asked to attend and assist.An·L.thcse /such a grou? of men, -.·ho have a big sta&.e in the future of this P::-ovinc~, I cannot for the life of!!:!:':, see hov anybody could tag it, as a T.V. extravagan'ZG, if so, I hope we vill have more of thee::. Paraguph ten, 1-'e na•1e the star:; of the organiz-'ltion of a salt codfish marketinr, board. I think the hon. the mem~er for St. John's East Extern, this ever..in;_;, I a-::. sorry that he is not in his seat, mace this statenent.

He said, the present Guvern:::er..t are no.: too sure, ;.•hat tc do \dtil our Ne~"fot.:ndland fishery.

I suggest, Sir, that we have not a man in this Provine~ today, and I an quite sincere in rnaking ::his su;;gestl.on, vho has more ·knotdedge of our l~e-wfouncland fishery than our presP.nt Hiniste-r of Fi.sheries. >'.nC th~ things that he has ~een recom"'ending down througn the years, I a~ glad that at long last, as ~ell as the Pre:r,ier and the Gov~rnnent, and :ny t\JO han. ftiends, three, on the other side, four of them on the other side of the P.ouse pcssijly -were in Ca~inet ~hen t:,e reco~enuations ~ere made tv the Salt Fish Oreanization Board.

If so, I congratulate therr. as the best thing that has happened. And I ara glad, at last the Governr.-,ent of Canada is s:;oins to ge:: around to j,t, to setup this Board. It is long, long, overdue. But '!:ere is •.·here the mistake was made and possibl:r I am the only one in this F.ouse, that •:ill stand up and say thi3, the mistake was made that sonebody tried to curcify NAFEL before this ~as brought into being. I worked for years takiu~ fish to. the l..'est Indies. I knm,• the market, as possibly as anyone here. NAFEL in my books did a ~ood job.

And before any- thing else can•e into being, the TC•IJ' Govcrnl!!ent of Ottc.•.;a t:nder }~r. Dicfenbaker that w<lS the ean 10:ho killed N,\FEL. Jl.nd •:e all kno"M t'":!t to be true. 1636

.April 7, 1970 Tnpe no. 271 Page 1 I kno1o1 th3t to be true. No sir, he vas the l!'.aa to put: the las: knife in it. lbe last man to put the knife in vas the Tory Government out of Ottawa under the Right l!o:1.ourable John Diefenbaker. No sir, the last !".an I said. I did not say the first one •. I said the last one. He vas in at the burial of it. That is "'here the mistake was made. I .am glad that in spite of this great mistake, the Federal Governl!:ent has co~re around to creating this salt cod fish marketing board.

Nm: I want to say this that personnel 'IOill be all important on this board, and I hope and pray t!nt vie do not get the m:ong roen on it, because, if we do that 1o;!lJ be disastrous to the !;evfoundland Fisheries. I hope that the Minister of Fisheries in Ottawa or the Gavernmcnt of Can.ada will have the sense to make sure the r!ght men are appoi.n"::ed to this salt coc! fish marketing board. Paragraph (12), we have a reference to the gravt: ~r.atter of polution. Now, Sir, it was my privilege this year to go to Corner l:lrook to speak to the annual meeting of the Wildlife Federation.

I am goi~g to read some of :he things and I am sticking strictly to the script. Some of the things that I said at that gatt:ering. "Let me make it perfectly clear thzt ind~stry is far from be~ng the only serious ~onta~ndt~r of our environ'!llent in !\ewfo~ndland sn.:i Labrad.:>r. Tne average citizen :.s pretty, heavily involved too, both collectiv~ly and individJally, Collectively because many muni~ipalities have been too slow in installir~ sewage treatF-ent plant~ and modern water distribution systems.

Some people say that we cannct aSford such luxur-<.es in thinly. scattc::ec, rural cC'=unities. not My reply is~::! cannot afford,to have them from the standpoint of got.d, health for our people. l<le hdve to face it, Sir, that all polution controlled cost t:lDney and in one way or another tl:ey inevitably mean higher ta~:es and higher prices, if we want better and higher standards of living. We are going to have to pay for the privilege. The average citizen is individually implicated in o~r polution problems too.

What do we find? ~~ssive discharges of a combination of fish offal and ra~ sewage into coastal waters arnnnd !ielol'foundland. Derelict autol!lObiles in the hundreds by our roa:lsides and around many houses. Garbage disposal areas not properly covered with no burning of vaster :;.aterials. Beautiful, scal1 streatrs and ve can see this 1637

April 7, 1970 Tape no. 371 Page 2 any-.·here in Newfoundland all:'ost, beautiful, small strea::lS choked ;.rf th every kind of refuge, broken bottles, empty tins sc.attcred hither and yon and all tend to implicate us to a greater or less degree. True industrial manage8eat is sor.,cw:la.t to blau;e for some polution, but I sugeest, Sir, that ,.e all have a look e.t ourselves in the glass of good health standards e.nd find out orce and for all, if we are 100-per-cent innocent in this respect. !l.emc:mber our em.Tironr.'.ent is what surro•.n:.ds us, ~vhat we create and ve can nev;::r escape this fact.

I suggest that in Ne•.;foundland today t'e have, and l repeat, ;.·e have dedicated men, SO~<!e experts, sce1e noTso much so, but all dedicated to the great task of beating this terr5.bie proble:n of p•Jlution. At our Uni·•ersity, Sir, ~Je have profess:tonal men and women wh.:> are trcin!ng !!'.any of our young people in the field of re~earch, and I l.T.:>uld l!:~e to think that their progress might indEeed be thr·ught of as f• fitting, living memorial to those othe1.· Ne•.,foundlaaders who in two Wc•rld Wa -:s gave i:.heir li11es to preserve ar,d conserve the th::.ngs that we shoulci value sc. highly.

I would thi.nk th3t the Grlvernmen: of this Prc-vi:~ce y.ea ttte-- Governnent of C2.nada yea the Governments of Nort~ Ame=:ca are having to acquaint one value against a::other. Loses in envi":'orDantal q1.!.3lity must be wei;:;hed against gains in ecot.or.1ic prosperity. Studies \lhic~< will have clear and irc;r.ediate applications to c.Jrrem: and f:1ture Provi~cial problems must be made as iast as possible. I know it with pleasure that at least one of our paper corr.panies will spend r~ny, ~~ny dollars in this area. I do hope that others will fo!.low this lead.

Ma\" be !;omcbody will say that ~Je have budgetary problems in this fie!.d, but they must be 'tackled and solved for l-Ie must have money to purchase- and install and ll'.a!v.t'3.il1 proper polution control devices, if ~Je are goinb to beat this te=rible scourge. Obviously, Sir, when pressed, industry 01ill find the mo!ley needed by raising the price of theixproduct. Nunicipalities can rartially:· offset. part of the cost by increasing waterside real estates values. The great portion of the monies needed must come from gover~.ents and in Canada we think cheaply of the Government at Ottawa.

I understand from cne or two of our professors at the Vniversity, and I am thinking especially of 1638

April 7, 1970 1'a!'e no. 171 Dr. Laird.

He said, " that cur University is ready and <lnxious to embark upon an intensive program of polution rcla::e:d studies but more money is desperately needed for the support of students and st;;ff and the purchase of equipment." I belie;;e, Sir, that the ti;::~ has co:ae for the governments, the University ~nd industries to ~ork and pl~n together in t:1e interest of finding affective and pract~cal ways of controlling, if not altogether adverting our deterioration probler.;:g and in this ~ay we c11n assure for the future an envirom nePt that will increasinsly be the envy of ot.:r neighbours vorld-'itide.

" P~ragraph (14) spe~ks about a road buildi~g program. We need bigh;..•ays. The time has come, Sir, when ~:c carmot afford anymore to build gravel roads, because the maintenance of gr;;vel roads is going to drain us practically dry and the qui=ker ~e ~dept a poli:y of paving every mile of read that ve build, "th<> quic:·:er we vill sta:rt to s<Jve ~.oney in the road building indt:stry in this Province. 1·!e need h-<.ghways. I am just going to drop into my district ior .a minute.

TI>ere is a st~et-::h or road from !!ew llart.our to Isling~on, fo•1rteen r.ilEos, The Hinister of Hi.gh;tays 1.3 no~ here. ! hope tilat t"te ';ov,zrancen~ can fird th£ mone;' to pave that. That will gi\7<! us seventy ~:~iles of paved toad th~n fro:;:~ Whitoourne do;m the shore, whic;l takes l!S right do;m to Hin ·~~rton. llighv.,ys, yes; secondary roads, y£s; local roads, yes, but, Mr. Speaker, I think that tL:e has c"me when 1o1e sh:luld give great consideration to roads to resoLrces. accec3 ro~ds. I think it was th~ hen. member for Bay de Vetde that made m!•ch o{ this:, ir:. his rece:nt speech to t~1is Hou:>e.

I S'-l~geEt that ov~r in that ~hole a~e:1, as •ell as othe~ places in Ne~foun~land, there are t~ocsands upon thous ancs of dollars to be made frcrn the berry picking industry, if only a fe\r Eiles of access roads lo!ere =de to the barr~ns so th:1t mer. and wor::en and boys :md girls could get t<- the barrens. In this.vay, they could earn, I vould suggest, thousands of dollars during the ben:y picking season. I ":ould think that in the consideration of roads that time has come for us to give a little more thought possibly to roads to resources. 1639

April 1, 1970 T~pc nv~ 371 P.ar.e 4 P.?.ragraph (lS) and (l6) very important, the cl:;velop~ent of hydro-electric pct-:er in the Pro\•incc. The expansion of the iron-ore producir..g i•Hlustry in !-:estern Labrador and this all spells o·ut employc.-ent vith a capital "E." This satr.<:! cap) to.l "E" could spell the elld for Govern:nent criti~s ..,.ho mal:e J.ittle of Gcverr ... -,cnt efforts to find work for our Newfoundland men and •1or.:en. P:nagrnph (20) the efforts of the C-<Jvernment to 1.r.:prove the efficiency and stability of the Civil Service long overdue.

Paragraph (23), v<:rj, very i!!!po;:-tan~ paragraph. The election, "hen it is prepared will provide o< the legislation, when it is prepared will provide that at least one-third, I belle•:e - I v.:mt to mz.ke sure of this now. One-third of the meDbers of all scho0l hoards and t:le bo1ding oi certain school board :r.ectir.gs uhich 1.•ill b!:! open to the tenet·al public. I agree \."ith this. Tnis is something else whicil is long, long overdue. But, Hr. Spc2.ker, thc:u;. is SOJT1ething both'";:-ing m~, .and I cannot clos..= my eyes to it.

It i~ happcnin6 in our e~ucationEl systen in Newioundland a~~ I ~'Ould n:;t be true to myself, :if I cHC:: 1l'Jt cay what I c.ru 60ir,g to say no-r:. I ag ~~eply concerned about what is happening to ~clucation in this Pro\~nc~. I f;Uggest, Sir, that if ;.re circular:" .z;;d an edur.atinnal system - I want for somebody tc te1.1 me , if ~?e· do that, Yhat sort of a c:::-uszd~ o;;;n "'e offer the stu:ientst' If our education.ll syste .. : is shora of t:1c Christi~>.n ~deal, then huxr.2nism becomes an arrd.nt eospel-.

Re! :cgion ofJ:e;.:s .1 ..!ru::ade beca~e . it is c:-ca.tive and wititouc ct uni!;d~;:: pu;:-?o.;e, 0 c.reativit;- becomes glorious confusion. Everyone expr~sd:t:; hio; o-rigir.ality by ign'lring all of the rules, but creat:lvi'.:y 1-ri:o..;~ order out of. cl.ao::.. Rules regardi~g the valuc.s of life m~st b<! volu~t~rily acc~pled and not i:Ot:J'JS~d by au.thority. Youth ne!ecls ]Jurpose. The youth of this Province ne~ds purpos~. :t is our rzsp~nsibility to see that they are trained to serve in the field in ~hich :hzy