Manitoba Hansard — Sitting 13A (35th Legislature, 1st Session)

35-1-13a

Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)

MG-8048 First Session - Thirty-Fifth Legislature of the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba DEBATES and PROCEEDINGS (HANSARD) 39 Elizabeth 11 Published under the authority of The Honourable Dents C. Rocan Speaker VOL. XXXIX No. 13A - 1 :30 p. m., MONO AY, OCTOBER 29, 1990 Printed by the Office of the Queens Printer, Province of MIJII /toba ISSN 0542�5492

MANITOBA LE GISLA TIVE ASSEMB LY Thirty-Fifth Legislature Members, Constituenci es and Political Affi liation NAME ALCOCK, Reg ASHT ON, Stave BARRETT, Becky CARR, James CARSTAIRS, Sharon CERILLI, Marianne CHEE MA, Gu lzar CHOM IAK, Dave CONNERY, Edward, Hon. CUMM INGS, Gl en, Hon. DACQUAY, Louise DERKACH, Leonard, Hon. DEWAR, Gregory DOER, Gary DOWNEY, Jam es, Hon. DRIEDGER, Alber t, Hon. DUCHARM E, Gerry, Hon. EDWARDS, Paul ENNS, Harry, Hon. ERNST, Jim , Hon. EVANS, Clif EVANS, Leonard S. FILMON , Gary, Hon. FIN DLAY, Glen, Hon. FRIESEN , Jean GAUDRY, Neil GI LLESHAM MER, Harold , Hon.

HARPER, Elijah HE LWER, Edward R. HI CKES, George LAMOUREUX, Kevin LATH LIN, Oscar LAURENDEAU, Marcel MALOWAY, Jim MANNESS, Clayton, Hon. MARTINDALE, Doug McALPINE, Gerry McCRAE, James, Hon. MciNTOSH, Linda MITCHE LSON, Bonnie, Hon. NEUFELD, Harold , Hon. ORCHARD, Donald , Hon. PENNER, Jack, Hon. PLOHMAN , John PRAZNIK, Darren, Hon. REID, Daryl REIMER, Jack RENDER, Shir ley ROCAN, Denis, Hon.

ROSE, Bob SANTOS, Conrad STEFANSON, Eric STORIE, Jerr y SVEINS ON, Ben VODREY, Rosemary WASYL YCIA-LEIS, Ju dy WOWCHUK, Rosann CONSTITU ENCY Osborne Thom pson Welli ngton Crescentwood River Heig hts Radisson The Maples Kildonan Portage la Prairie Ste. Rose Seine River Roblin- Russe ll Selkirk Concordia Arthur -Virden Steinbach Riel St. James Lakeside Ch arl eswood lnterlake Brandon East Tuxedo Springfield Wols eley St. Boniface Minnedosa Rupe rtsland Gimli Point Doug l as lnk ster The Pas St.

Norbert Elm wood Morris Burrows Stu rgeon Cree k Brandon West Assiniboia River East Rossmere Pembina Emerson Dauphin Lac du Bonnet Transcona Niakwa St. Vital Gladstone Turtle Moun tain Broadway Kirkfield Park Fl in Flon La Verendrye Fort Garry St. Johns Swan River PARTY Liberal NDP NDP Liberal Liberal NDP Liberal NDP PC PC PC PC NDP NDP PC PC PC Liberal PC PC NDP NDP PC PC NDP Liberal PC NDP PC NDP Liberal NDP PC NDP PC NDP PC PC PC PC PC PC PC NDP PC NDP PC PC PC PC NDP PC NDP PC PC NDP NDP

LEGISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MANITOBA Monday, October 29, 1990 The House met at 1 :30 p.m. PRAYERS ROUTINE PROCEE DINGS TABLING OF RE PORTS Hon. Donald Orchard (Mini ster of Health): Mr. Speaker, it is my pl easure to table the 19 89-90 Annual Report of Manitoba Heal th Rese arch Counc il, the '88-89 Annual Report of the Alcoholism Foundation of Manitoba, and the '89-90 Annual Repo rt of the Man itoba Heal th Se rvices Commission. INTRO DUCTION OF BILLS BILL4-T HE PAY EQUITY AMEN DMENT ACT Ms. Judy Wasylycla-lels (St. Johns): I move , seconded by the Memb er for We lli ngton (Ms. Barrett), that leave be given to introduce Bill 4, The Pay Equity Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur l'e gal ite des salaires, and that the same be now received and read a first time. Motion presented. Ms. Wasylycla-lels: I would lik e to make a few brief remarks on this Bill. Mr. Speaker, it was our sincere hope that the introduction of this legis lation would not have been necessary. Howeve r, it is necessary. lt is necessary given the Minister of Energy's (Mr. Neufeld) remarks on Friday wher e he ques tioned the very essence of pay equity. lt is necessary given the decision by this Government, to date, not to use existing legisla tion to extend- Point of Order Mr.

Speaker: The Honourable Government House Leader, on a point of order. Hon. Clayton Manne ss (Government House leader): On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, the privilege of being allo wed as a Mem ber to bring forward a Bill and provide a few opening remarks on the record on first reading, in this case, given tha t the Member had provided notice long before any other remar ks may ha ve been made in this Legislature last Friday, is certainly far out of order. l ask you to bring the Member to order. Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House leader): Mr.

Speaker, our rules are qui te clear. lt is the righ t of every Member of the Legislature to make a brief introductory comment on a Bill , which is exactly what the Member for St. Johns (Ms. Wasylycia-Leis) is doing. The fact that the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr. Neufeld) made disparaging comments about pay equi ty on Friday I am sur e is somethin g that the Government House Leader could expect in this House on Monday, since it has been relev ant exactly to the Bill.

She pointed out that she is bringing in this Bill on be half of our caucus because of the lack of commitment to pay equ ity on the part of this Government. -(i nterjection)- Mr. Speaker: Order, please ; order, please .

On the point of order raised by the Honourable Gov ernment House Leader, Rule 85, and I quote : "W here a Bill is introduced by a member upon motion for leave , the mover of the motion may give such expl anation as will enable the House to understand the pu rport of the Bill, but the question 'that this Bill be now read a first time' shall be decided without amendment or debate." Sub sequently, Beauchesne's 6th Edition, 645, at the First Reading stage: "At this stage it is not permissible to argue the bill. Discussion of the bill' s merits may take place on the motion for the second reading.

The Member is only permitted to explain the provisions of the bill in order that the House will understand its purport." On the point of or der, the Honourable Government House Leader does have a point, and I wou ld ask the Honour able Member for St. Johns (Ms. Wasylycia-Leis) to keep her remarks strictly to the Bill . *** * (13 35)

462 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MAN ITOBA October 29, 1990 Ms. Wasylycla-Lels: Mr. Speaker, I certainly will atte mpt to outl ine the main pu rpose of this leg islation. lt is brought forward by the New Democratic Party Caucus because of a gap in policy. lt is our view and our stated intention, and our record speaks for this very clearly, that pay equi ty mu st be extended in all sectors of the economy.

We are very concerned about the fact that this Government has not made a decision, will make no stated commitment to ext end pay equ ity to al l sectors of the economy, particularly all health care institutions beyond the 23 facilities that reached an interim negotiated pay equi ty settlement. Mr. Speaker, it is our beli ef that women have waited long enough for something as fundam ental and basic as equal pay for work of equal value. We bel ieve that this Gover nment has not made its commitments and its plans and its intentions to reach that goal .

We want to do everything in our powe r to see that women wait no lo nger. Mr. Kevln Lamoureux {lnkster): Are we still on the first reading? Mr. Speaker: Yes. The qu estion, theref ore , before the House was that leave be given to introduce the Bill 4. Agreed ? Agreed. BILL 9-MANITO BA INTE RCUL TURAL COUNCIL AMENDME NT ACT Mr. Kevln Lamoureux (lnkster): I move , seconded by the Member for River Heigh ts (Mrs. Carstairs), that leave be given to introduce Bill 9, Manitoba ln tercultural Council Amendment Act; Loi modifiant la

Loi sur le Conseil intercu lturel du Manitoba, and that it be read a first time. Motion presented. Mr. Lamoureux : Mr. Speaker, this Government is taking the department of mul ticultur alism on in terms of politicization. We have seen the MIC lose its fu nding capabil ities ove r to the Mu lticultural Grants Advisory Counci l. -(i nterjection)- Mr. Speaker, this is in order. lt is explaining what the Bill does. lt says that the Government should get off its pol itical agenda on mul ticul tur alism, and it should be putting it back into MIC wher e it belongs, wher e it is not as pol iticized.

That is directly what the Bill is pertaining to. Mr . Spea ker : Order, plea se . I re mind the Honourable Member that the practice of this House is to briefl y explain wha t is in the Bil l. The ques tion befor e the Hous e was tha t le ave be given to introduce Bill 9. Agreed ? Agreed. ORAL QUESTION PE RIOD Cross Lake Indian Band Ti mber Cutting Rights Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition) : Mr. Spe ake r, the Premier received a copy of a correspondence late last week from the Cross Lake Band indicating that they felt the licence and the present cutti ng in the Cross Lake area was contrary to

Article 15 of the Northern Rood Agreement and that they were in a direct confrontation with the Repap Corporation in terms of cutting in the area that the y felt was desig nated as thei r wil dli fe resource and thei r trap line and river and lake area. My questi on to the Premier is: Will he commit hims el f to action consistent with his promise at the aboriginal debate during the election for treaty land entitle ment, and will he ask Repap to stop cutti ng in the area that has been given to the Cross Lake Band under

Article 15 of the Northern Flood Agreemen t? Hon. Gary Fllmon (Premier) : Mr. Speaker, I would remind the Leader of the Opposition that the land that is in ques tion was land on whic h cutti ng was taking place by the former Manfor for decades under the former NDP Government, and they took no action wha tsoever on it. They took no action whatsoev er, I am sur e, because they we re under the same legal advice that we are. That is that that land is not in fact set aside under any constraint that would prevent log ging, that would prevent timber cutti ng that we are aware of. • (1 340) Mr.

Speaker, I wonder whether or not this is all a poli tical issue. Why on earth wou ld the band be cutti ng for decades un der the NDP, under public ownership of Manfor, where they could have had direct control ove r it and not a word be said now that it is an issue because it is under private ownership under the same transference of the same timber cutti ng rights that were there formerly under Manfor on which timber was cut under that agreemen t?

I do not under stand what the difference is or how it has changed or how the Leader of the NDP could say that all of a sudden this is an issue when for all of those decades under his administration Manfor, under public ownershi p, was allowed to do that cutti ng.

October 29, 1990 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MANITOBA 463 Repap Manitoba Inc. Share Value Mr. Gary Doer (Leader of the Opposition) : In case the Premier has not noticed, the Repap deal is becoming a disaster for this province, whether it is en vir onmen tal, cut ting areas, aborig inal land entitlem ent, chlorine bleach, on and on and on. Well, let us ask a pol itical qu estion, Mr. Speaker. The Aud itor's Report clearly states that the shar es of Repap cannot be used as an asset for pu rposes of program expenditur e to assist in stabili zing the financial position of the Governmen t.

Yet, this Minister of Finance puts in the bud get some $78 mil lion of Repap paper funds as part of the fiscal stabil ization ques tion. My questi on to the Minister of Finance is: Who are we to belie ve , the Provincial Audit or, who says that you cannot put those fund s in that accoun t, or the Minister of Finance, who has portrayed that fund at $303 million this year? Hon. Clayton Manne ss {Min ister of Finance) : Mr. Speaker, the Provincial Auditor did not tell us that we could not put the funds ther e. Indeed, the Provincial Auditor then would have to tell us wher e we should pu t the funds.

You notice tha t the Provincial Auditor has not said where els e they should go. Mr. Speaker, it is the perfect place to put the proceeds of that dev al uati on. What may be in dispute is the value of those shares. That is what may be in disput e. Wha t we have said as a Gove rnment is, the best place to put the m, to hold them until they materializ e in value, indeed is in the Fiscal Stabiliz ation Fund as lo ng as you do not draw on them as if they are cash .

We fully expect that the value of those shares will be mu ch greater than the $77 mil lion un less the Leader of the Opposition is trying to drive Repap out of the province, in which case the full value of the $77 mil lion will be real ized . Mr. Doer : Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Finance should read the Auditor's Report. lt says you cannot use this as an asset as the Minister of Finance has done in his Fiscal Stabilization Fund . That means when the Minister of Finance puts that little slide up for all the public relations, he is wrong against the Auditor's Report.

These assets are not worth $78 millio n according to the Audit or. My ques tion to the Minister of Finance is: Has he greatly misrepresented the Fiscal Stabilization Fund by $78 mil lion because ther e is no asset in that fund for Repap? Mr. Manne ss: Mr.

Speaker, if the Member would real ize, if he had taken time to read the purchase sale agreement, the sh are purchase agreement with respect to Repap and the Government, he had taken the time and the effort to read it, he would recognize that if indeed he is successfu l, _ as he wishes, to drive Repap out of the Provtnce of Manitoba, that $77 mill ion will be provided by them in cash in providing under the covenants of the agreemen t. Furthermor e, Mr .

Speaker, wher e is it that the Provincial Auditor is saying that the asset value that we ha ve provided wit hin the sh are pur chase agreemen t is to be lodged ? * (1 345) Multlcultural Policy Contradictions Ms. Marlanne Cerllll (Radlsson): Mr. Speaker, during the elec tion campaign we hear d this Gove rnment boasting of its record on mu lticultural policy and spending, saying that it increased grants to mu lticultural organizations. On Friday, we heard the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr.

Neufeld) in a public speech disagree with this policy in spending by saying, and I quote , I am against mu lticultural fund ing. Mul ticultural funding ends up with . the WASPs, if you like, fundin g everybody else. Gtven that ther e is a well known- Mr. Speaker: Order, plea se . If there a question her e? Kindly put your qu estion now, please. Ms. Cerllll: My qu estion is for the Premier.

Given that there is a well- known constitutional policy that a provincial Gove rnment Cabinet cannot contradict Gove rnment policy, what is he going to do to assure the public that there will not be contradictions bet ween Gov ernmen t policy and the views expressed by his Cabinet? Hon. Gary Fllmon (Premier) : Well, Mr. Speaker, I find it somew hat interes ti ng tha t the New Democrats-of course , the Member is new to the Legisla ture, and she may not be aware of comments that have been made by her caucus Members throughout time.

Time and time and time again I have heard New Democrats decry the fact that because of Govern ment solidarity that, for instance, on issues lik e the GST, federal people should be

464 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MAN ITOBA October 29, 1990 able to speak out against it and vote against the ir own Party. I have he ard during the '70s when the New Democrats were in Government Mem bers of their Cabinet speak out and say that they ought to have anti-scab leg islation, that they disagreed with the ir Party's position, which was not to bring in anti-scab leg islation. The fact of the matter is that Members on this side may have different views abou t particular issues, but they are in fact Members of this Government.

They sup port the Government position and will vote for the Government position even though they disagree with it, just lik e the Member for Radisson will lose battles in caucu s and Cabinet-no, she will never be in Cabinet. She will lose battles in caucus and she will still go out and vote with her caucus or else she will not be with her caucus, Mr. Speaker. The fact of the matter is, tha t is the way the dem ocratic process works. Ms. Cerllll: Mr.

Speaker, we are beg inning to wonder who really is in control on that side of the House but, more importantly , we are wondering if the Premier can tell us, do these statements reflect a change in Government mul ticul tural policy? Mr. Fllmon: No, Mr. Speaker. Ms. Cerllll: Mr. Speaker, my final supp lemen tary question then is also to the Premier. How can this House and the people of Manitoba be assured that potentially racist attitudes reflected by the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr. Neufeld) do not influen ce Government policy? Point of Order Hon. Clayton Manne ss (Government House Leader) : Mr.

Speaker, that kind of statement cannot be tole rated in this House . I ask the Member to fully withdraw it and apologize to the Member. Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader) : Mr. Speaker, on Friday, and it is recorded in Ha nsard, the Minister made the comment that mul ticul tural funding was WASPs funding everyone else. lt was the Minister that introduced this subject matter, and I bel ieve the ques tion from the Memb er for Radisson is not only in order, it is an apology that should be made without havi ng a qu estion asked by a Member of the Opposition.

The Minister should be withdr awing his comments made last Friday. Mr. Speak er: The Honourable Memb er for Radisson, on the same point of order. Ms. Cerlll l: No, I would like to proceed with my ques tion, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Order, ple ase; order, ple ase. I would lik e to thank both House Leaders. I will take this opportu nity to reserve my jud gment on this one unti l I have an opportunit y to better peruse Hansard. *** Mr . Speak er: The Honourable Memb er for Radisson, kindly put her qu estion now, please . * (1 350) Ms. Cerllll : Mr.

Speaker, how can this House and the people of Manitoba be assured that potentially racist attitudes reflected by the Minister of Energy- Mr. Speaker: Order, please; order plea se. I have taken this matter un der advisement. I am asking the Honourable Memb er for Radisson to kindly reph rase her que stion. Ms. Cerllll: How can the House and the people of Manitoba be assured that the derogatory attitudes reflected by the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr. Neu feld) do not influence Government policy in spending in the area of mul ticu ltur alism ? Mr. Fllmon: Mr.

Speaker, because as I indicated in response to the la st ques tion, our policy remains as it is stated and printed in the folder that we put out as a Government, the first mul ticul tural pol icy, I might say, that any Government had the courage and the conviction to put out. Despite all the fine sounding phr ases of the New Democrats, they never had the courage to put out a mul ticulturalism policy.

That policy is here in writing, and just like the New Democrats talk ed about anti-scab legisla tion but did not implem ent it, we have implemen ted a policy tha t is in print for ever yone to see that represents the pol icy position of this Government. Mr. Speaker, I will be gl ad to share a copy with her to ensur e that she knows and understands what the pol icy of the Government of Manitoba is. Minister Energy and Mines Apology Request Mr. Kevln Lamoureux (lnkster): My qu estion is for the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr.

Neuf eld) . lt is complete ly appalling to see a Minister of the Crown make a statement of that nature, and I will quote the

October 29, 1990 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MANITOBA 465 statement. Mu lt icul tur al funding ends up as the WASP, if you lik e, or funding everyone else. My ques tion to the Minister of Energy and Mines is: Will he stand up in his place today and apolog ize to all those Manitobans that he has offended by making those com ments, or at the very least, stand up- Mr. Speaker: Order, pl ease; order, plea se. The qu estion has been put. Point of Order Hon. Clayton Man ness (Government House Leader) : Mr. Speaker, I am not going to prevent the Member from standing and commenting.

I only ask you this, tha t the Mem ber is re sponsible for the Department of Energy and Mines, and the purpose of Questi on Period is to direct questions to Me(tlbe�s with responsibil ities withi n their own spheres� I ask that indeed all Members opposite direct ques tions in that manner. Mr. Larnoureux: On the same point of order, Mr. Speaker, I have asked the Minister to apologize for statements that he had made in the House last Friday. There is noth ing unp arliamentary or against the rules that al lows me to ask that qu estion. I would ask the Minister to stand up and defend himself. Mr.

Manne ss: There are rules under our House of what are matters of privilege. If the Member feels that his rights as a Memb er have been:· offended, there are rules within this Ho use to bring the matter before the floor that can cause a Member to be taken to a committee to be sanctioned, if indeed the Hou se feels that a statement has been made improperly and reflects upon all of us. Those are the rules in the House . Th is is not an inqui sition period wher e indeed Members in making comments in debate, in th is case Budget Debate, are called to expla in. The Premier (Mr.

Fi lm on) has made full enun ciation as to the principles and the policies of this Government within that area. The Premier speaks for the Government of the people of the province in this province. Those views are fully stated on the record, and I say, Mr. Speaker, Question Period is not to be used as a moment of inqui sition for Members opposite indeed when they make comments in debate . Mr. Steve Ashton (Opposition House Leader) : On the same point of order, Mr. Speaker, the Government Hous e Leader raises a spurious point.

This is not sugg ested to be a matter of privilege in the sense that it did not affect the privileg es of Members of this Hou se. lt was a very serious statement that impacted on many people who I am sure are going to be very offended to have read those comments, people of all ethnic groups who are seeking mul ticulturalism as merely a way of maintaining their cult ure.

The comments by the Minister were not only absolutely uncalled for, they are some of the most severe comments that I have heard in the nine years I have been in this Legislatur e. -(i nterjection)- I have never heard someone have such a direct attack- * (1 355) Mr. Speaker : Order, please; order, please . The Honourable Member for Thom pson. Mr. Asht on: -on mu lticulturalism in Manitoba in the nine years I have been in this House . I would sugges t that we may have a way out of this. I realize that the Government House Leader (Mr.

Manness) raised one point, which is that Members, Ministers, are asked qu estions in regard directly to th eir portfolio, but I do bel ieve that the Minister hims elf could solve a lot of these difficulties if he gets up and repudiates those statements. If he will not, if the Premier, who sat here in Question Period and had several opportu nities- Mr. Speaker: Order, plea se; order, please .

On the point of order raised, it appears to be somewhat of a replay of the previous point of order that I have taken un der advisement. lt is extremely complex what the Government Hous e Leade r has brough t forward , and the remarks made by the Opposition House Leader and the Honourable Member for lnk ster. So I will take th is matter under advisement to give me a better opportu nity, in all fairness to the House , to come back after I have perused Hansard. *** Mr. Speaker: The Honourable Member for lnk ster, kindly rephrase his qu estion, please . Mr. Lamoureu x: Mr.

Speaker, the Minister of the Crown is responsible for words that he puts on the record in the Chamber. My ques tion is: Will the Minister simply retract or apolog ize for making those statements? That is all we are asking, for a simple "I am sorry."

466 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MAN ITOBA October 29, 1990 Point of Order Mr. Speaker: The Honour able Gove rnment House Leader, on a point of order. Mr. Man ness: I am sorry, Mr. Speaker, in li stening to that ques tion, I could not distinguis h it one iota from the question that was put prev iously. You have asked this House to give you time to ru le, indeed, on th is comple x issue, using your words. Mr. Speaker: The Honourab le Government House Leade r does have a point of order. Will the Honou rable Memb er for lnk ste r reph rase his qu estion, pleas e? *** Mr. Lamoureux: Mr.

Speaker, then I will ask the Premier, will he now stand up and repudia te the comments made in the Hous e by the Minister of Energy and Mines (Mr. Neu feld) last Friday? Hon. Gary Fllmon (Premier) : Mr. Speaker, each person in this House may have his or her own pe rsonal views on any particular issue or policy of Govern ment, but there is only one policy of Government. Wha t we have done is go furt her than any oth er Gove rnment has and put in writing our policy on mu lt icu ltural ism . The previous administration , the NDP, have neve r had the courage to do that. Our policy is in writing. Mr.

Speaker, I have heard foolish comments put on the recor d by the Member for lnk ste r (Mr. Lamour eux), put on the record by the Member for Osborne (Mr. Alcock) and many, many people in this Chamber. I have heard the m say things that we re totally incorrect, things that I totally disagreed with. I have hear d Members of the Liberal Party say things about, for instance, the diversion of the Pembina River into Pelican Lake, on the record, their critic. Then th eir Leader went to Tur tle Moun tain during the election campaign and said that was not the pol icy of the Government.

This is the policy of the Government, and we stand behind this policy, Mr. Speaker. * (1 400) MGAC Funding Mr. Kevln Lamoureux (lnkster): My qu estion is for the Minister responsible for Cul tur e and He ritage. I am afraid that this particular Minister has agreed with the comments in regard to the Minister or at lea st the approach. Why, I do not know , Mr. Speaker. I would sugge st that if we take a look at the budget, at the li ne-by -line Estimates, you will find that MGAC's-- Mr. Speaker: Order, please ; order, pleas e. Is there a qu estion her e? Kindly put your ques tion now, please. Mr.

Lamoureux: Does the Minister of Cul ture and Herit age agree with her colleague's remarks? If not, why did she freeze the fun ding to MGAC- Mr. Speaker: Order, please ; order, please . The Honourable Member's que stion seeks an opinion and is therefore out of order. Kindly rephr ase your ques tion, please. Mr. Lamoureux : Does the Minister of Cu lture and Herit age agree with her colleague's remarks? If not, why did she freeze the funding to MGAC? Mr. Speaker : Order, please ; order, please . The Honourable Member's que stion seeks an opinion and is therefore out of order. Kindly rephr ase your question , please.

Mr. Lamoureux : My qu estion is to the Minister: Why did she freeze the funding to MGAC? Hon. Bonnle Mltchelson (Min ister of Culture, Heritage and Recreation): Mr. Speaker, if the Member for ln kster will take the time to go through the Estimates process, he will real ize and will recognize that as a result of the needs assessment, we have signed five-year agreements with all of the um brella group s through out Gove rnment tha t receive Lotteries fun ding. There is a formula that has been put in pla ce wher e they get a certain percentage one year and another percentage the next year.

All of those um brella organizations have agreed to the five-year agreement that we have signed. I will go into great detail thr ough the Estimates process and explain wha t is happ ening. Multlcultural Grants Cutbacks Mr. Kevln Lamoureux (lnkster): Mr. Speaker, in MIC's '88-89 Annual Report, $1 .3 milli on was spent on mul ticu ltural grants. We have see n a decrease in m ulticultur al grants in the last two years, from $1 .3 millio n to $1 million. My ques tion is to the Premi er. Does the Government suppor t mu lticult ural grants? If the

October 29, 1990 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA 467 Prem ier does, then why has he been cutting and freezi ng th is portion of the Estimates? Hon. Bonnle Mltchelson (Min ister of Culture, Herit age and Recreation) : Mr. Speaker, there has been absolute ly no cut in the fun ding to mul ticul tural organizations. If the Member would take the time to sit in on the Estimates process, we will be able to go through line by line and make that analysis. He will then underst and. Manitoba Hydro Affirmative Action Mr. Conrad Santos (Broadway): Mr.

Speaker, my que stion is directed to the Minister of Energy and Mines {Mr. Neu fel d) . Given his public statements of his views on mul ticu ltural ism , does it also mean that the Affirmative Action Program cannot be fully imp lemen ted in Man itoba Hy dro as far as mul ticul tural constituents are concerned? Hon. Harold Neufeld (Minister of Energy and Mine s): In the fi rst ins tance, it should be remembered that I prefaced my remarks by saying I suppor ted the Gov ernme nt's budget.

I ha ve prefaced my remarks by saying that I stand for Cabinet soli darity, but I also said that I did not necessarily agree with everyth ing that the Cabinet decided. I th ink that goes without saying. We cannot always agree. Ther e are 18 people in Cabinet. We are not always going to agree on every issue , but I also said, Mr. Speaker, that I stood with what the Cabinet decided in the end. That does not mean to say I do not have an opinion of my own. I also prefaced my remarks by saying I too am an ethnic. I come from a background of famil y that immi grated to Canada in 19 26. My pare nts immigrated to Canada.

We went through all the discrimination. I was a German raised in Canada dur in g the war. Do no t tal k to me about discrimination. I have been through all that. I have been thro ugh the job hun ting process when the only reason I was not hir ed was becaus e I was a German. So do not let anybody there try to tell me about cultur e or lang uage or- Mr. Speaker: Order, please . Minister Energy and Mines Multlcultural Position Mr.

Conrad Sant os (B roadw ay): To the Honour abl e First Minister, given that under the doctrine of parliamentary government ther e are individual ministerial responsibilities distinct and separate from collective Cabinet responsibility for which the Premier provides the leadersh ip, what does this Premier intend to do with this Minister who violates that collective Cabinet responsibility on mul ticultur alism ? Hon. Gary Fllmon (Premier) : You know, there are none so bl ind as those who will not see . Those who will not listen or will not hear, Mr. Speaker, cannot be responded to adequately by anybody.

The fact of the matter is that the Minister of Energy and Mines {Mr. Neufeld) has said that he suppo rts Cabinet decisions whether or not he agrees with th em. That is exactly the case of everybody who is in Cabinet. The Minister has indicated that he, as a Memb er of Cabinet, will carry out Government policy without questi on, because it is Government pol icy, and that is the case with respect to this and anyth ing else that - {interjection)- affirmative action, Manitoba Hydro or anything else is Government policy and the Minister responsible will carry it out. Manitoba Hydro Pay Equity Mr.

Conr ad Santos (Broadway): If the First Minister is not doing anything about a divergent policy of mu lticultur alism expressed by his colleague in Cabinet, how does the Prem ier propose to impl ement other related policies li ke pay equity and other related policies in Manitoba Hydro? Hon. Gary Fllmon (Premier) : The Government is on the record in writing on every single policy that he speaks of. Our position is different from the position of the New Democrats with respect to pay equity, but it is on the record. We support fully the implemen tation of the pay equ ity legisla tion that has been passed.

We disagree with the New Democrats' desire to impose it on an unwi lling private sector. We have a difference of view on that, but the policy of the Gov ernm ent is on the record and will be implemen ted by this Government.

468 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MAN ITOBA October 29, 1990 Manitoba Hydro Pay Equity Ms. Becky Barrett (Wellington) : My que stion is to the Premier. On Friday the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydr o (Mr. Neuf eld) stated that the inequali ty in jobs generally dominated by women or men could not be elimi nated through legis lation. This current Gov ernment voted for the legisla tion which establis hed pay equ ity within the public sector, which includes the Crown corporation Manitoba Hydro.

How can the Premier continue to have confidence in the Minister respo nsible for implem enting this pol icy at Manitoba Hydro when he is on record as saying he does not support it? Hon. Gary Fllmon (Premier): The fact of the matter is tha t the pay equity legisla tion that was passed by the form er New Demo cratic administration with the total supp ort of the Members of the Progressive Conservative Caucus has been in the process of implemen tation.

We have found that there are difficulties for instance that are created by that legisla tion, difficulties that have caused proble ms with the implem entation of pay equity for the nur ses, who ha ve been unha ppy with the lim itations that were put on tha t prevented them from getting pay equ ity in their agreements. They had to go and appeal it to the Lab our Board. They lost the ir appeal to the Labour Board, because despite the fact tha t the New Democrats said it was excell ent leg islation, in practice it did not work out very well .

Her e you have legisla tion that has pro blems, despite the fact that people su pport it in principle. The fact of the matter is we will continu e the work for the implemen tation of the pay equi ty legisla tion as it was passed by this Legisl ature . Ms. Barrett : I have a supple mentary to the First Minister.

Since the Minister responsible for over 4,000 empl oyees at Manitoba Hydro said in the House on Friday that positions of men employed as linemen at Manitoba Hydro cannot be compared to positi ons tradit ionally held by women when determ ining salary lev els, how can the Premier continue to let this man remain responsible for the implemen tation of this policy at Manitoba Hydro? * (1 41 0) Mr. Fllm on : Manitoba Hydro is a Cr own corporation, has a mandate to operate at arm's le ngth from Government within the pol icy framework that is set for it by legisla tion of Government.

They will obey all of the legisla tion that is set forth for th em, including the policy that is contained within not only The Manitoba Hydro Act, but The Pay Equity Act as it affects them and any other legisla tion that we would pass in this province. Whether it be human rights legi slation, wh ether it be any other leg islation, Manitoba Hydro will carry out its responsibilities to implemen t all legisla tive requir ements, and they will, I am sur e, Mr. Speaker. Ms.

Barrett: Again, to the Prem ier, since the Minister respo nsible for Manitoba Hydro stated Friday in the House that he does not support the implemen tation of Government responsibil ity within his own area of Cabinet responsibility, will the Premie r gua rantee that this Minister or another Minister does carry out those oblig ations? Mr.

Fllmon: I will just-you know, I find it very interesting that the official Opposition, three days after the budget was introduced in this Legislature , have absolu tely no questions about the budget, have no issues to raise about the budget, is totally devoid of any responsibility to the public of Manitoba to debate the budget, Mr. Speaker. I will assur e the Member for Wel l ington (Ms.

Barrett) and every other Member on that side that every Minister in this Government will carry out the responsibil ities of implem enting the policies of this Gover nment as they are stated, as they are put in writing for anybody to see . Ontario Hydro Agree ment PUB Recommendations Mr. James Carr (Crescentwood): Mr. Speaker, it is now alm ost a year since Manitoba Hydro entered into a major agreement with Ontario Hydro for the export of Manitoba hydroelectric power. My qu estion is to the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs.

The Order-i n Council that the Minister signed asked that the Public Utilities Board report to the Government by November 1. Could the Minister pl ease tell us when we should expect the recomme ndation from the PUB? Hon. Edward Connery (Minis ter of Co-operative, Consumer and Corporate Affairs) : Yes, when it is ready, Mr. Spe aker, it will be presented to the Legislatu re. Mr. Carr : Mr. Speaker, the Minister says, wh en it is ready. The -(in te�ection)- No. The Premier as usual

October 29, 1990 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA 469 is chir ping from his seat about a per fu nctory analysis--q uite the contrary. We want to know how mu ch time the Government is going to have before the December 31 deadline kicks in, which is the las t moment tha t this Government can withd raw from the agreemen t withou t penalty . Ontario Hydro Agreement PUB Deadline Mr. James Carr (Crescentwood): My qu estion to the Minister in charge of Manitoba Hydro is: When does he expect the recommendation?

How mu ch time will the Government have to look at it before the withdrawal of December 31 can be achiev ed ? Hon. Harold Neufeld (Minis ter of Energy and Mines): Well, Mr. Speaker, I do not think it would be right of Government to rush the decision from the Public Utilities Board. They are taking their time and are analyzing the facts and the figur es that are put before them and the interveners that come to th em. They will in due cour se bring their recommendation forward to Government, at whic h time we will act upon it. Mr. Carr : Mr. Speaker, the Minister says, in due course the Gov ernmen t will have time.

The Gov ernm ent will not hav e time because the deadline of December 31 is moving and moving towards us qu ickly. PUB Recommendations Mr. James Carr (Crescentwood): My qu estion is to the Minister responsible for Manitoba Hydro. Will he call the Public Utilities and Natur al Resou rces Committee of this Legisla ture before the deadline of December 31 so Members of this Hou se could have a look at the PUB' s recommendations and do the responsibl e thing with $5.5 bill ion of Manitoba money? Hon.

Harold Neufeld (Min ister of Energy and Min es): Wh en the rep ort comes forward , the recommendation comes forward from the Public Utilities Board, it will be aired. lt will be aired publi cly and the decision will be taken by Cabinet as to whether or not to proceed. Home CHEC Loan Program Cancellation Mr. George Hlckes (Point Douglas): My ques tion is for the Minister of Energy. We have heard the Minister of Energy and his colleague praise th e oil companies for the ir success at making even higher profits while gouging consu mers.

How does this Minister justify cutting Home CHE C energy conservation loan programs that assist those trying to consu me less energy at a time when those same oil giants and natural gas monopolies stand to make record profits from the current Middle East crisis wh en only a tiny fraction of Canadian consumer s use oil from the Middle East? Hon. Harold Neufeld (Minister of Energy and Mines): Well, Mr. Speaker, it has to be said first of all, I have never praised the oil companies for profit sha ring from the position we are in now in the Middle East. I personally would detest any gouging by the oil companies.

The Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs (Mr. Connery) and I have met with a numb er of the oil companies. We are satisfied that gouging is at th is time not taking place, but the Minister of Consumer and Corporate Affairs and his department are monitoring that. As far as the cancell ation of the Home CHEC loan program is concerned, ther e mu st come a time, Mr. Speaker, when we mu st review any program that Government deliv ers. We reviewed the program of Home CHE C loan and we decided that there were better ways to spend the Government dol lars.

We cancelle d that program and went ahead with other pr og rams that mor e properly aid us in the conservation of energy. Mr. Hlckes: To the same Minister, why did this Minister kill the program when over 3,500 home owners used this program in 19 88 to improve energy efficiency in the ir ho mes? Mr. Neufeld: Mr. Speaker, the vast majority of the home owners that used the program used it for door and window retrofitting. Door and window retrofitting does not in itself conserve a great deal of energy. That is the le ast area of conservation of any retrofitting in the house .

We felt that there was too mu ch of window and doors going on and we could better spend the energy conservation money by expanding the Home CHEC program, which we have done by expanding the fossil fuel consum ption program and things like that. So we thi nk that we have diverted the funds into better areas.

470 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MAN ITOBA October 29, 1990 Energy Information Centre Closure Mr. George Hlckes (Point Douglas): Why did this Minister close the Energy Information Centre? Did Jake Epp tell him that closing such a centre and closing regional fe deral ener gy and minister-renewable centres was necessary to keep energy consum ption up and the profits up for oil companies? Hon. Harold Neufeld (Minister of Energy and Mines): I would ask the Member where the energy conservation office was that we closed up. Manitoba Agricultural Credit Corp. Funding Mr. John Plohman (Dauph in): Mr.

Speaker, the recent budget brought down by the Finance Minister (Mr. Manness) provided only smoke and mirrors for Agricult ure for the farmers of Manitoba despite the fact that they tout this a major increase- Some Honour able Members: Oh, oh I Mr. Speaker: Order, plea se; order, please . Mr. Plohman: Obviously a very sensitive vein, Mr. Speaker, over there on this, because in fact what this budget did was simply deal with federal offloading in a numb er of areas, in crop insurance and certainly in the interest rate relie f.

In view of the fact that one-t hir d of the farmers, mostly younger farmers, as reported by the federal Farm Credit Corp. recently, are bearing the greater portion of the deb t, some $1 75,000 on average per farmer, why has this Minister of Agricultur e not seen fit to increase the Manitoba Agricultural Cr ed it Corporation budget to provide greater financing for this target group during this difficult time? Hon. Glen Flndlay (Minis ter of Agriculture): Mr.

Speaker, I would like to remind the Member that ove r the past two years of the Manitoba Agricul tural Credit Corporation, you ng farmer rebate has been doubled from a $2,000 a year credit up to $4,000 a year. The net worth limit has been raised so more young farmer s can qu al ify. The guar anteed operating loan has been expanded so the farmers can now quali fy for up to $200,000 of a gu aranteed operating lo an instead of a $1 25,0 00 guar anteed operating lo an. MACC supplies the lowest interest rates in the marketplace for young farmers or any farmer that qu al ifies for those loans .

We have done more than any other Gov ernmen t in western Canada for young farmers in those categories, and that speaks for itself at MACC in terms of our commitment to the young farmers of Manitoba, along with the interest rate relie f program for all farmers may have reduced the ir interest rates by 7 percent. There have been substantial benefits put in the hands of young farmers, in fact all farmers of Manitoba who borrow money. • (1 420) Farming Industry Economic Conditions Mr. John Plohman (Dauphin): Things are so good out there, Mr.

Speaker, that is why we are havi ng all the farm auc tions, and tha t is why all the bankru ptcies. His own annual report says that continuing poor economic conditions resulted in smaller lo an portfol io, was un spent in the Manitoba Agricult ural Credit Corporation. I ask this Minister why he is allowing the banks and why he has not made representation to allo w them to take the interest free cash advance that farmers are now getting and forcing them to pay off those loans that the Minister brags about, the 7 percent reduction loans. The banks are taking the cash adv ances.

Why has he no t made representation to the banks to stop that practice so the farmers can determine where they have to pay that cash advance? Hon. Glen Flndlay (Minister of Agri culture): Mr. Speaker, farmers borrow money from banks, caisse populair es and credit unions. If they sign a security agreemen t that they are going to guarantee that the proceeds of that crop will be used to pay the loan off, that is a legal commitment by the farmers.

The banks took two test cases to the courts in Albert a on that exact issue because farmers were taking the cash advance and not assigning to loans that they used that crop for security on. He is advocating that they break the law , that is what he is advocating. One of the reasons a lot of farmers are in difficulty in front of the Manitoba Mediation Board is because they used exactly that practice. They had committed the proceeds from their crop to specific lo ans, and they took it out and used it for something else.

The farmers have to abide by the law and yes, the federal Government has changed the regula tions with cash advances. Any farmer that does not assign his crop has no commitment to have to take that money and take it

October 29, 1990 LEGIS LATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MANITOBA 471 to the banks. I think in fairness in terms of fol lowing the law the right procedures have been used . Mr. Plohman : Mr. Speaker, this priority agreement put in by the federal Conservative Government, which has not been dispu ted by this Minister, states clearly that the lender may apply this amoun t of the cash advance to reduce th&- Mr. Speaker: Order, please. Questi on, plea se . Mr.

Plohman: I ask this Minister whether he is going to continue to allow, or will he make representation on behalf of farmers so they do not have to suffer the humili ation of havi ng the banks cosign their cash advances before they can receive it and so they cannot even make the dete rmination of what their priority debts are that they want to pay? Mr.

Flndlay: A committee of prod ucers, industry people and farmers have met and have talked about this issue and are making a collec tiv e representation to the federal Government to make the procedur e less restri ctive, particularly on farmers who have not assigned the proceeds of the ir crop. FllmNideo Classification Government Policy Ms. Jean Frlesen (Wolseley): My ques tion is for the Minister of Cul tur e, Heri tage and Recreation. Pornography is an issue which is causing increasing revulsion in our society, and I think we are all aware of the opinions of our constituents in this matter.

Th er e have been many demons trations in neighb ou rh oods and petitions to all levels of Govern ment. Mr. Speaker, public concern is ju stified. Research sho ws a clear rela tionsh ip between the use of pornography and violence towards wome n. An important study by La Federation des Femmes du Quebec shows that three out of four men who sexu ally abuse women were regular consumers of pornography. The Minister indicated on September 11 , 19 89, March 2, 19 90, that a policy on the classification of videos was imminent. lt was announced again during the election- Mr. Speaker: Order, plea se; order, please .

The Honourable Member for Wolse ley, kindly put her qu estion now, please . Ms. Frlesen: Sorry, Mr. Speaker. When will the Mini ster be announcing her policy on the classification of pornograph ic videos? Hon. Bonnle Mltchelson (Minister of Culture, Herit age and Recrea tion) : We have alr eady annou nced the policy in that we are going to imp lem ent a video classification syst em. Mr. Speaker, there is a process to go thr ough, unlik e what happened un der the Member for St. Johns (Ms. Wasylycia-Leis) when she was the Minister responsible for video classification.

They received a report and they shelv ed it. lt collected dust for several years, because they could not- Some Honourable Members : Oh, oh I Mr. Speaker: Order, please; order, please . The Honourable Minister of Cultur e, He ritage and Recreation has the floor. Mrs. Mltchelson: Mr. Speaker -(i nterjection)- Mr. Speaker: The Honourable Madam Minister, to finish her response . Mrs. Mltchelson: Mr. Speaker, we will have a process in place whereby video stores are licensed . They will have to have a classification system in the ir stores by January 1, 19 91 . Ms. Frlesen : Mr.

Speaker, we are gl ad to hear that commitment to a definite date for the introduction of this pol icy. Human Rights Code Pornography Ms. Jean Frlesen (Wolseley): My supplemen tal is to the Attorney General. What consideration has he given to the sugges tion made by my colleague the Hono urable Memb er for St. Johns (Ms. Wasylycia-Leis) in December 19 89 to review the Human Rights Code of Manitoba to see if it migh t inclu de prohi bition of material that depicts degrading material? Hon. James McCrae (Min ister of Justice and Attorney General) : Mr.

Speaker, the review has been done. l will be glad to shar e the results with the Honou rable Member. Ms. Frlesen: I look forward to that as well. Women's Crisis Shelters Funding Ms. Jean Frlesen (W olsele y): My final supplemen tal is to the Minister of Famil y Services. What action is being taken to ensure that adequate and secur e funding is made available to the provincial she lters for women and famil ies?

472 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA October 29, 1990 Hon. Harold Gllleshammer (Min ister of Family Services) : Mr. Speaker, our commitment to the she lters has been very clear. We have increased the fun ding for the she lters by some 47 percent over the last two years. We have worked with the Eastman shelter as recently as last week and presented them with a cheque for $58, 000.00. We look forward to the board making the decision to reopen the shel ter in the next few days. Palllser Furniture Ltd. Environmental Permit Conditions Mr. Daryl Reld (Transcona) : Mr.

Speaker, last week I had the opportu nity to raise a ques tion in this House on the matter concerning the toxic fume emissions from the Palliser Furni tur e manufacturing plant in Transcona. The Minister of Environment at that time took the qu estion as notice. My ques tion is for the Minister of Environment. Wh at steps has he or his department taken to per form the necessary environ mental testi ng, internal and ex tern al, of the Palliser plant to determine if the plant is meeting its licence or permit conditions? Hon. Glen Cummlngs (Minister of Environmen t): Mr.

Speaker, the department is working with Pall iser to make su re that they bring th eir plan t into compli ance with the licence. The construction of the containment facili ty for the product that is apparently blowing across the neighb ou rhood will be expected to be closed in as soon as possible. We are actively working with them to make sur e that that is followed up. We are also going to be given access to the ir consu ltant's report so that we can make sure that complete use of that report is made. Mr. Speaker: Time for oral qu estions has expired . NON-POUTICAL STATEMENTS Mr.

Eric Stefanson (Kirkfleld Park) : Mr. Speaker, I would seek le ave to make a non-polit ical statement. Mr. Speaker: Does the Honourable Memb er have leave ? (Agreed) Mr. Stefanson : Mr. Speaker and Members of the House, I wou ld call Members' attention to the fact that the week of October 28 to November 4, 19 90, has been declar ed White Ribbon Agai nst Pornography Week. At this time I would lik e to recognize GAP, Group Against Pornography, for their efforts to encour age citizens to become involved in action groups to fight pornography.

GAP is located in the Kirkfield Park constituen cy, and its stated pu rpose is to move our citizens and communities, to combat and elimi nate the destructive influe nces of obscenity, pornography and indecency. I would like, atthi s time, to commend GAP for th eir active participation in raising public awareness on the pornography issue . Thank you . Mr. Nell Gaudry (St. Bonlface): May I have lea ve for a non-pol itical statement, please ? Mr. Speaker: Does the Honourable Member have leave ? (Agreed) Mr. Gaudry: Mr.

Speaker, it gives me great pleasur e to speak on the proclamation th is wee k, October 28 to November 4, as the "Week of White Ribbon Against Pornography." La pornographie est un sujet compli qu e quand on pense aux garanties accordees a chaque individu par la Charte des droits et libert es. Par contre, il y a le niveau d'obliga tion morale qui nous oriente vers une position refl echie de conscience personnelle. Cette obli gation morale nous dirige sur le che min du respect des garanties individue ll es de la Ch arte des droits et li bertes.

Par contre, nous devons egalement proteger la dignite hum aine et la maturite croissante de nos enfants et de nos adolescents afin d'assurer une moral ite saine pour notre societe. (Translation) Pornography is a complicated issue when we think of the rig hts granted to each individual under the Cha rter of Righ ts and Freedoms. However, there is a moral obli gation that leads us each to take a well- thoug ht-out stand based on personal conscience. This moral obligation gui des us along the path of respect for the individual rights contained in the Charter of Righ ts and Freedoms.

On the other hand , we have to protect human dignity and the maturi ng process of our chil dren and young people in order to secure a wh olesome morality for our society. (English) Theref ore, Mr. Speaker, these are the reasons why I am wearing this white ribbon as a symbol of duty towards our society's morality in order to benefit

October 29, 1990 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA 473 the dignity of the women and chil dren of this province. * (1 430) I invite all the Members of this House to join me by sharing the significance of this week 's proclamation "White Ribbon Against Pornography Week " by the Premier and the Mayor of the City of Winnipeg. Thank you. Ms. Jean Frlesen (Wolseley): I wish leave to make a non-political statement, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker: Does the Honourable Member for Wolseley hav e le ave to make a non-pol itical statement? (Agreed) Ms. Frlesen: I want to add congratulations and commendations of our Party, Mr.

Speaker, to the organizers of the International White Ribbon Week Against Pornography and to emphasize , I think as all Members of the House would agree , that this is an important week. lt is going to bring attention of many people thr oughou t the province to an issue which has caused enormous grief to many famil ies and individuals within Manitoba, and that we lo ok forward to the new policies of the Government.

We would also, I think, look forward to new pol icies from the federal Government as well on this, but this is the first st ep, tha t is, the ex pansion of public awareness of this issue . lt is a first step in a program of protection of women and children to whic h we are all committed. ORDE RS OF THE DAY BUDGET DE BATE Mr. Speaker: On the adjourned debate on the proposed motion of the Honour able Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness), and the proposed motion of the Honour able Member for River Heig hts (Mrs. Carstairs), in the amendment standing in the name of the Honourable Member for St. Johns (Ms.

Wasylycia-Le is), who has 38 minu tes remaining. Ms. Judy Wasylycla-Lels (St. Joh ns) : Mr. Speaker, I am pl eased to continue my remarks on this very critical debate . As I have said before, Mr. Speaker, it is clear to all of us in the New Dem ocratic Party that Manitobans want a vision whic h builds for tomorrow. They want a Government which prepares for the future , and, regrettably, the Manitoba Conservative bu dget of this past week fails Manitobans on those counts.

Rather than produce a program to meet the needs of the 19 90s, to lea d Manitoba thr ough the recession, this Government has produced a budget which pass ively accepts the recession and intervenes only on behalf of those best able to endu re a downturn in our economy. lt is a budget which leaves Manitobans defenseless in the face of harsh economic realities. (Mrs. Louise Dacquay, Deputy Speake r, in the Chair) Madam Deputy Speaker, this budget is a program of higher unem ploym ent, of cuts to programs which assist people, and cutbacks on programs whic h can buil d a better future for Manitobans.

A budget which buil ds for tomorrow would have done many things. lt would have inclu ded a plan to develop and nurtur e our hard-pressed communi ties in the North , in rural Manitoba, in rem ote regions, and in Winnipeg's inner city. lt wou ld not have included a pla n to cut back in those areas, and there would not have included any sugges tion that for services to be provided in those areas, was dependent upon how citizens in those commu nities voted in the last election.

A budget that has a vision for the future , that addresses the needs of the 19 90s, wou ld have included a strong commitment to the environment. lt would not have reduced efforts in those areas that we have seen clearly enun ciated in the budget presented by the Minister of Rnance (Mr. Manness) this past week. A budget for the future would have included real moves towards social fairness. lt would hav e a program to en hance commu nity-based tr aining and suppor t for education, and employmen t flexibi lity. lt would not have cut back in those vital areas.

A budget for the futur e would have invested in Manitoba's people , and it wou ld have done so through prevent ative , communi ty-based health care, through family support programs, thr ough ACCESS me asures to guarant ee our human resources are developed to th eir fulles t potential .

Instead, we have a budget which undercuts the foundatio ns of our futu re. lt un dercuts the foundation of our future by cutting in spe nding in the areas of heal th care and edu cation. lt unde rcuts our future by reducing services in northern communi ties. lt under cuts our future by withdra wing ACCESS programs for training. lt un der cu ts our future by en suring

474 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA October 29, 1990 absolutely no protection for laid-o ff workers . lt un dercuts our future by refusi ng to even mention the serious problems in our society today of chil d poverty, of youth in troub le, of battered women, of families in crisis.

You know, Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a budget fill ed with a lot of rhetoric about the great potential of this province, but in reality , it is a budget which will over time des troy the huma n and natural resource potential of this province. lt will mean the lo ss of thous ands of more jobs. lt will mean irreparable damage for many communities, and it will create wider disparities between the rich and the poor. This budget tells us in no uncert ain terms what Manitoba Conservatives bel ieves to be the best role for Gove rnment.

They believ e clearly that the best role for Gove rnment in the economy is no role at all . The th eme of this budget is that decisions made in the private sector should not only dictate what prices and commodities should be, but should also have the predominant influe nce in what the priorities of society as a whole should be. lt is, in fact, the abandonment of the role of Governmen t to the complete supr emacy of the market . The public good is equa ted with the corporate good .

As one example, the Minister of Finance, in his Budget Address, states over and over and over again that we mu st be creatively looking to find efficiencies in our system ; that we mu st find efforts together to maintain services within our lim its; and he , in fact, states that efforts to maintain services are shortsi gh ted and will destroy Manitoba's opportun ity for developm ent, will choke off inves tmen t and the job opp ortu nities tha t investment brings.

The approach , Madam Deputy Speaker, is tax breaks for corporations, because in the minds of Conservatives they are the only way we will get out of these economic troubles. For Conservatives that means tigh ten the belts for everyone el se , because you know Conservatives think that our needs for services have caused this mess in the first place. That opinion, that feeling, I believe, is certainly felt by many in our society today. lt is put most suc cinctly in an

article in a very recent issue of Opti ons, the June 19 90 issue of Options, in an

article by David Patterson entitled "Corporations and the Debt," as he says so well : What rankles however is the general impl ication that we , as citizens, through our Gove rnment, with our greedy little fingers scooping up the social program pie, have brought the count ry to this alarming impasse.

Now our friends, big busi ness, lik e an older, wiser brother taking his gadabout, irresponsible sibling to hand , are prepared, throu gh the shear gene rosity of their patriotic corporate hearts, to le ad us out of the morass in which we have managed to mire our selv es. lt merely requir es that we make no protest as the social programs we have worked so long and hard for in this country are wh ittled away, eventua lly to harmonize with their U.S. counterparts which are among the poorest in the civilized world.

He goes on to say, and puts so we ll: lt is most irritating to be subjected to this pious, patronizing fl imflam day after day, especially when it is such an obvious blen d of mu sh, misdirection and outright self-servi ng fals eho od. * (1 440) Madam Deputy Speaker, as the debt bur den seems to be the overriding motivating factor in this restraint ridden budget, this budget of the Manitoba Conservatives, it is desperately important to search out and to talk about the true cause of that debt situa tion.

When one does an objective analysis of that situation the only conclusion that one can come to is that the corporate sector of this country has for decades, under li beral Governments primarily, managed to avoid paying its fair share of income taxes. Had they been paying, as experts in this field have told us over and over again, for instance, the same effective rate as the average Canadian citizen over the last 20 or 30 years, we would presently be operating in all lik eli hood under a surplus budgetary position.

As this budget is real ly a page out of Mulr oney's "How to Govern" book, I th ink it is certainly very important to see where this hands-off rel iance on this corporations approach gets us. Let us look at the past six or so years under Mulr oney, as Prime Minister of this country. After six or so years of so-called economic recovery under Brian Mu lroney, we have in this country, in this province, a record numb er of childr en going to school withou t breakfast. We have aboriginal people in a deep ening housing crisis. We have more food banks than ever before . The num bers of

October 29, 1990 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MAN ITOBA 475 homeless young people are increasing. More seniors than ever before are strugg ling for basic dignity. Schools are in decline. Hospitals are turning away those who need qualit y health care. Madam Deputy Speaker, the Minister of Finance (Mr.

Manness) has not been lis tening to all of my remarks because he would have heard that I was attempting to help this Government come to its senses before it is too late by looki ng at the record of its counterpart in Ottawa, their col leagues in Ottawa, th eir cronies in Ottawa who have driven this cou ntry into economic despair because of the ir hands-off, support -the-corporations poli cies.

Madam Depu ty Speaker, I am hoping that this Government will realize that the approach does not work based on the statistics that I have presented, based on the information that is put to the m on a day-to-day basis, and that they will come to the ir senses before irreparable damage is done. In fact, I would ask the Minister of Finance, has this Government not lear ned the hard way?

Is the lega cy of Mulr oney not en oug h to convince Conservatives her e that poli tical power mu st be used not only to strive for economic prosperity, but equally to ensur e that the values that I bel ieve they respect, the values of liber ty , equal ity and communi ty, to ensure that those values are al ive and well desp ite the market economy. Instead of emula ting Brian Mulr oney and bowing to the pressur e of their friends in the busi ness communi ty, jus t for once Manitoba Conservatives and this Government should stop blam ing working people and the ir famil ies.

Ju st for once Members across the way should say no to cutbacks in social progr ams. lt is clear, tho ugh, Madam De puty Speaker, from this budget they have chosen not to take a lesson from the pages of his tory and instead have chosen to present the corporate agenda in its budget. lt is in my view, Madam Deputy Speaker, that this budg et is in fact a budget that is hostile to building a society committed to greater equali ty. lt is a budg et of a Government that is opposed and does not understand the deepe r feeling s of communi ty. lt is a budget of a Government that does not recognize the need to expand on the value of liber ty for the majority. lt is a budget of many out righ t cuts in spending in the human service area. lt is budget of hun dreds of more reducti ons through less than inflationary increases. lt is a budget of no initiatives, no innovation, no creativity in high - need areas. lt is a program of erosion through a policy of inaction. lt is a budget of ominous forewarnings of thi ngs to come, of what is yet to come.

Madam Depu ty Sp eake r, tha t picture , tha t scenario that this budget has presented has been backed up day after day since the Minister of Finance's (Mr. Man ne ss) budget presentation of last week, day after day by comments and speech es from Members of this Government's Cabinet. If the public has not un de rstood fully the negative ramifications of this budget from the presentation of the Minister of Finance and from the number s that have present ed to the public, then they surely understand it now after the comments of the Minister of Northern Affairs (Mr.

Down ey) , after the comments of the Minister of Energy (Mr. Neuf el d) , and after today the comments of the Premier (Mr. Fil mon) in refusing to deal with the situati ons, with the impressions left by his colleagues sitting around the Cabinet Table. Madam Deputy Speaker, I quoted a minu te ago from an

article in Options of the June 19 90 issue, an

article by David Peterson, who talks about the highes t patronizing fli mflam that we are heari ng day after day from Govern ments and corporations combined. Speaking of pious, patronizing flimf lam , I want to take a moment, Madam Deputy Speaker, and look at this Gove rnment's response to the changing and growing needs in our community.

Instead of evol ving its policies and adjusti ng its spending patterns to reflect reality, to reflect the changing, growing needs of today, Members across the way have hid the ir heads in the sand, have become immobili zed , intransigent and inflexible about those problems, and have hidden from responsibility by trying to blam e the pionee ring efforts and the forwar d-lo oking strat egies of the previous administration. They have rewritten history and taken on an incredible defensive posture.

That position, that posturing is getting tedious. lt is getting sickening and it is time that this Government got on with rev ealing its own prog rams and policies and comm itme nts, and not hiding behind the well-in tentioned efforts of previous administrations. You know, it is interesting, this Government, day after day, since the Hous e has resumed sitting this past month, day after day on every critical issue of

476 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MAN ITOBA October 29, 1990 the day has refused to show its commitment and its intentions for addressing the problems in those areas and has attacked the New Democratic Party for its record of achiev emen t in those areas. Interestingly, it has attacked us in those areas for which we have the most credibility, issues and areas wher e the public clearly believ es the New Democratic Party is best able to govern, best able to address the needs of citizens experiencing those problems.

So, whether we are talking about child care, wheth er we are tal king about pay equity, whether we are talking about Child and Family Services or whether we are talk ing about fam ily viole nce, the public unde rstands, the public appreciates the record of ach ievement of the New Democratic Party in those areas and now wants to hear what the policies and programs and prior ities of this Government is in those areas. * (14 50) Now I realiz e I cannot use term inology that suggests a misrepresentation of the facts, Madam Depu ty Speaker, but I can refer to the fact that this Gov ernment has chosen to attempt to rewrite his tory, to attempt to be revisionists, to attempt to misrepr esent the dev elopmen ts of the past, because it has done just that. lt has tried to sugg est in case after case that fundi ng and commitment were less than adequate by the previous NDP administration, deli berately ignoring the incredible innovation and amount of spending that happened in those areas under the former NDP Government.

Let me give you a few examples, Madam Deputy Speaker, for the benefi t of som e of the new Members who may not have been told this by the Premier (Mr. Filmon) of this province or, in fact, the Dep uty Premier (Mr. Downey) who certainly would be aware of the his tory and the facts in these areas. Let us look, for example, at th eir remarks about our initiatives in day care. The Deputy Premier has not chosen to enligh ten his coll eagues to the fact that between the years of 19 82 and '88, the numb er of day care spaces increased 13 4 percent.

He does not mention the fact that back in the Lyon years, provincial funding of day care was about $600,000 and went up over $33 mill ion in the next eigh t years un der the New Democratic Party. He and his colleagues do not enli gh ten and consider their colleagues and share the information about the innovative approaches of the previous administration when it came to chil d and family services and mention the new ground tha t was broke n by the implemen tation of a commun ity-based del ivery system.

In the area of family violence, Madam Deputy Speaker, this Conse rvative Government has done the best job of rewriting his tory. lt has boasted on a daily basis about its 47 pe rcent increase to programs dealing with famil y viol ence whe n, in fact, just about all of that increase was provided in the budget, in the Eugene Kostyra budget, that Conservatives across the way voted against. lt fails to men tion that the money for the province-wide crisis lin e came from the decision of this Gov ernmen t to obl ite rate the Man itoba Committee on Wife Abuse , fails to mention that the rural she lter system was put in pla ce as recently as 19 85, and tha t by 19 88 before the NDP was defeated, plans wer e underway to change the funding formula that is the source of the concerns of rural she lters today.

In fact, Madam Deputy Speaker, in the briefing book hande d to the then Minister of Family Services, Cha rl otte Oles on, she clearly stated that a review of the funding arrangements for a she lter system in Manitoba was under way and would be compl eted in four to six months. Two and a half years later, this Government has still not taken one tiny step to changing the funding formula and to putti ng rural shelt ers on a solid financial footing. You know , Madam Depu ty Speake r, tha t posturi ng, that defensive posturi ng, that rewriting of history, the antics of Me mbers opposite, do not wash with the public.

They bel ieve that we, in the New Democratic Party, when in Government, did our very best in those areas. They hear us when we say we did not solve all the problems in those areas, that we made mistakes, but we at le ast, together with the communi ty, had a vision and worked to develop programs and policies that were in li ne with the best interests of the commu nity. You know, Madam Deputy Speaker, all it woul d take for Member s opposite would be for once to say: We do not have all the answers.

We cannot solve all these problems overnigh t, but we are working with the com mu nities to address the issues and here is our commitment to show you that we are serious. In this budget, no such commitment is apparent, and in the rhetoric we are hear ing nothing but the language of the dinosaur era. We are hearing now

October 29, 1990 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MA NITOBA 477 abou t how it does not make sense to compare secretaries with lines men, that one cannot possibly imagine how those two different jobs could be contributing something of equal value in our society today. By that statement alone, this Government has ques tioned the very essence of pay equ ity, the very reason for looking at this whole area and moving with respect to leg islation to address the inequities and inequalities in our society today.

The public understands and experiences, on a first-hand basis, that the needs in areas lik e Chil d and Family Services, battered women, child care, and the lis t goes on and on, hav e grown astronomically in those areas over the last several years. They want to know what are this Government's policies and plans for addressing those growing needs. They want to know wher e is the commitment of this Governmen t, but with this bud get they wonder if there is any commitment at all .

Nowhere is there expressed in this budget an under standing of the needs of commu nity and the fact that needs and dem ands have changed and are growing and that Gove rnment policies need to evolve and keep pace with those ch anging issues in our commun ity. Nowhere in this budget is ther e any sense that this Government under stands that a long -term planning approach is necessary, und erstands tha t shor t-te rm pol itical inte rests cannot always rule the day and that sometimes a little sacrifice is necessary in order to address a problem down the road.

I think that failur e, which is so apparent in this budget, is really at the root of mu ch of the cynicism in our society today about politicians. They see too often politicians striving only to address their short-term political needs and prepared to sacrifice the lo ng-te rm needs of a communi ty for th at short-term pol itical gain. I think this is nowhere more apparent than in the area of health care. We have raised repeatedly in th is House the serious concerns that Manitobans have about the future of our healt h care system.

We have put time and time again on the table our vision, our proposal s, and our plans. Now Manitobans and we, on this side of the House, are looki ng for the vision and lon g-term plans of the Government of the Day. For lon g-term plans, for plans that are not just orie nted to cutbacks, to under spe nding, to short-term measur es. Day by day our concern is growing and growing and growing. Madam Deputy Speaker, if that was not apparent before this budget, it should be now. Let me take one example and if time permits, I will certainly address other examples in the he alth care field.

Madam Deputy Speaker, for two years now, Members on this side of the House have been bringing example after example to the Government of the Day about the cutbacks in home care in the north end of Winnipeg . This Governmen t has continued to deny that such cutbacks exist, that there has been a change in policy. An Honourable Membe r: Cha nge in policy? * (1 500) Ms. Wasylycla-Lels : No-Ma dam Depu ty Speaker, there has been no change in policy?

No, they just simply make it harder and harde r and har der for people to get the kind of home care that they need to stay in the ir homes and communities and then they say the demand for the program is not there. The n they show a reduced line of spending in the budget. Now, Madam Deputy Speaker, certainly in my book, and in the minds of Members on this side of the House , that is a cutback, that is a cutback. That is a deli berate attempt to reduce expend iture in the area and it is having a harmful effect on our system , and shows no vision about the future for our health care system.

No understand ing about the needs of elderly, which are growing, the num bers of which are growing day by day. Madam Deputy Speaker, even before we saw this bud get, which shows in essence a cutback in home care, even before we saw the figur es on undersp ending, which the Minister revealed last week in the Hous e sho wing some $4.5 milli on undersp ending when it came just to home care, we were deal ing with a personal case, with concerns that exem pli fied, that showe d clearly, the real pol icy ofthis Government and showed that there has been a policy change .

In fact, Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to read briefly from a presentation that was made last spring to our New Democratic Party Caucus at a meeting in the north end. I hope the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) is taking note, because I belie ve that this example says it all in terms of the real concerns that we have been feeling with respect to cutbacks in home care .

478 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MANITOBA October 29, 1990 She starts off her prese ntation by saying , previous experien ce terrific, major ill ness in 19 73 with 19 0 days in hospit al, home care provided between ep isodes of surgery, support provided major reason mental health and physical health recovery, gratitude to the extent that she wrote the Minister of Health under the then NDP Government after recovery to expr ess her feel ings and then tells the story about first her mother, then her father. About her mother she says, how different thi ngs are today.

When my mother was very ill, it took a great deal of pleading to receive half a day for five days a week care. lt did not start out this way, but this was the ultim ate of assistance that could be attained. This was very puzz ling, as I was aware that parents of my friends who li ved on Grant Avenue wer e receiving fu ll days, five days a week of assistance. These people were far les s fragile than my mother.

She goes on to talk about the problems she has had with home care with respect to her mother and ends that part by saying, the ve ry sad part about all this is that on mother' s last day she had her home care assistant in the morning, but after lunch she became ill and afraid. My father had gone out on a errand not knowing she was ill and she was home alone. She called me at work. I sensed her ill ness was critical and ran hom e only to call an ambul ance to take her to hospital wher e was she was sent to Intensive Care Medicine within three hour s and passed away within 24 hours. She talk s about her fathe r.

She says, now it is three months later. My father had all home care immediately withdr awn. There was no assistance to even give him a week of adju stment; jus t so long, take care of yourself. I telephoned the social workers at St. Boniface Hospital because that is wher e the original placement on home care took place. They said tha t they could not he lp me because of where my father liv ed, that he would have to be he lp ed by Seven Oaks Hospit al. This did not disturb me, but wh at she said next real ly bothered me.

She told me that if my father had li ved in th eir catchmen t area, som e help could have been obtained. I paraphrased her and asked her if she was saying it was only a matter of geography in the city and she repl ied in the affirmative. This was no longer supp osition on my part, but now it was confirmed. When I spoke to home care, I was told that they wer e not respon sible on how oth er branches interpreted the rules. As she says, I ask you, do you find this right or fair?

Finally, let me use some of her closing remarks from her presentation, because maybe they will make Member s opposite take note and attempt to reassess this situation and reconsider their cutback policy. She concludes by saying, thr ough all of the he artache of dealing with home care, their bur eaucratic and authoritative manners have left me trembling. You may well ask, why am I relating this tale to you? lt is not only for my father that I tell you this. Someday you may have a parent or spouse ju st as sick and in as much need of help.

I want to make you aware that we need to get together and tell the Minister of Health (Mr. Orchard) that this unfairness mu st stop. Unl ess we do someth ing and send a message to Broadway Avenue that we care about the sick and help less in our part of the city, the problems of home care will not go away. Unle ss they hear our message, you stand a very good chance that my proble ms may surely be yours someday.

Madam Deputy Speaker, if the numb ers do not say it all, then this human story told with a great deal of emotion and distress because you know it takes a great deal of cour age to convey one's personal situation of such a trauma tic situa tion. If the numb ers do not say it all, then surely these cases that we have brought forward to the Minister time and time again say it all . Certainly there is no ques tion in the mind of the public that there has been a cutback in home care. Manitobans know it. Northe nders know it on a day-to-day basis. They have been cut off time and time again.

An Honourable Member: Who has perpetr ated that ? Ms. Wasylycla-le ls: Madam Deputy Speaker, the Minister of Rnance (Mr. Manness) asked, who has perpetrated that ? lt was under this Government that the cutback policy came into effect. All of this begs the questi on- An Honourable Member: Ho w can you call it cutback when we spend more? Ms. Wasylycla-l els : The Minister of Finance says, how do you call it a cutback policy when we spend more.

Let me reiterate the point I have ju st made. lt is fine and dandy to show increased spending in a budget year, but to turn around and underspend that by milli ons of dollar s, then say demand is not there and then reduce your budget, why, it is a cutback.

October 29, 1990 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MANITOBA 479 Madam Deputy Speaker, let me conclude by saying th is is jus t one ex ample of the kind of shortsighted policies of this provincial Conservative Gove rnment in the area of health care. There are many such examples.

This budget is filled with reducti ons. lt is filled with an erosion of programs, and most of all , it is biased towards institutional care based on the illn ess m ode I. lt shows no vision about moving to communi ty-based care. lt has no vision for dev eloping preventative measures to keep down the cost of health care, and it has no strategy to respond to the incredibly serious, harmful cutbacks of the federal Govern ment, that are al ready ha ving serious ramifications on our system and will put our heal th care system in a crisis. * (1 51 0) I want to know, as all Manitobans want to know, wher e is the plan of action to deal with that situta tion, or are the ominous words of the Minister of Finance in his Budget Address, when he says, wait for thi ngs to come, get ready for further restraint measures by this Government-does that mean this Government intends to deal with federal Government restraint on the backs of people of Manitoba, of the sick in Manitoba, by introducing user fees and means tests?

I conclude by saying, by leavi ng the will of the peopl e on record, which is for a qu al ity, univ ersally accessible heal th care syste m, who expec t leader ship from this Government to deal with the loom ing crisis in health care, to ensur e that kind of care and that kind of tradition and history of this province and this country in health care, continu es forever. Thank you . Hon.

James Downey {Minis ter of Northern and Native Affairs): Madam Deputy Speaker, let me first of all take this opportunity to say several th ings as it relates to this new Legislature, the new MLAs, and all those individuals who have retu rned. My first comments are to the Premier of the province, and to congratulate our Premier on his re-el ection as Premier of the provi nce in form ing the next Government of the Province of Manitoba for some four years. This province nee ded this Prem ier and this Gover nment for the 199 0s.

I can tell you that it was the hard work and the dedication of him and his Cabi net and his family and the people who suppor ted him over the past two and one-half years that, I beli eve , gave the rewards that were needed to carry on with the responsible leader ship for this province, and the strong le adership that can be given by our Premier. I complim ent the Premier on his hard work and his continued dedication and commitment to the people of Manitoba.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the policies of which many people could not recognize thr ougho ut the campaign, particularly the New Democratic Party, and, for sure, the Liberal Party, and I would be remiss if I did not make a comment about the Liberal Leader and the Liberal Party and their campaign. You know, it was the Liberal Leader's big thing in the campaign, her commitment, to make sure that she went to 57 ridings; it was her big objective du ring the campaign. lt is a good job she did not go to the seven that she got a cou ple of more times, or she would not have had any.

I think it truly pointed out that the Liberal Party was here strictly as a protest vote against the New Democratic Party in 19 88. lt was not what the Liberal Party had to offer to the Province of Manitoba; it is what the New Democratic Party had done to the Province of Manitoba in its devastation, in its high Autopac rates, in its MTX fiasco, in its ManOil fiasco, and all the mishandling of al l the Crown Corporations drove the New Democratic Party out of office. The people of Manitoba said, we wil l put our vote with the Liberal Party because we do not expect that they will get very far.

They got to 20 seats and, with the help of one of our colleages who crossed the floor, got to 21 , but I think for the next many, many years in the Province of Manitoba the Liberals have seen their all-ti me high, as it relates to the Manitoba Legislature and the ir representation. I want to point out four basic principles that have carried us, Madam Deputy Speaker, four basic principles that all the Members of our Party ran on, that we worked on for two and a half years, and that we are starting this path on for the next four years.

I believ e what I heard the people of Manitoba say is that they could no longer handle or tolerate any increased taxation of any magnitude. They had it up to their teeth as far as Government taxation is concerned, particularly personal taxes. They were unable to cope with any higher taxation. That was the message that was out ther e. That is the message that is still out there . That of course , Madam Deputy Speaker, is the main place that this Government and any other Government gets their revenues from, the tax base

480 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA October 29 , 19 90 from the people of the Province of Manitoba. Some people do not real ize that, particularly the Member for St. Johns (Ms. Wasylycia-Leis ) when she continues to demand more money be spent. She does not say , we want you, the taxpayers in Manitoba, to pay more money to del iver this service. She says, we want the Government to deli ver it-we want the Gove rnment to deli ver it. lt is the taxation policies that are directly reflected on the people of Manitoba. They talk about eight million. I will talk about bigger numb ers.

Somethin g els e that was very clear is that the people of this province want the essential services maintained, the health and educat ion. They want th eir essential services maintained. Not only did we maintain the m under our administration of the first two and a hal f years, we enh anced th em, enh anced the m tremendously at the same time that we kept the administrative costs of Government at below the rate of inflation. He alth care and education basically in the last year's budget doubled . Madam Deputy Speaker, our record is very clear. Let me put something else very clear on the record.

The New Democratic Party never lik e to hear this because again they live in some airy-fairy land of thinking that money grows on trees, not the taxpayers pay it. The commitment is to reduce the deficit or to work to the reduction of the deficit over the long term . Why have we got that deficit, Madam Deputy Speaker? lt is because we had a short-term fix Gove rnment, short-term gain for long-term pain in the New Democratic Party governing this province for far too many years.

What did it give us? lt gave us an interest ch arge of $547 mil lion in our budget expense this year-$547 million of budget expe nse that cannot go to any home care, cannot go to any health care, cannot go anywhere . lt goes to the banks in Zurich and New York. That is wher e the money goes. (Mr. Marcel Laur endeau, Acting Speaker, in the Chair) I can assure you , Mr. Acting Speaker, that it is still tha t same taxpayer who has to pay for that horrendous interest charge and that deficit that was given to us by the New Democratic Party.

Ten thousand dollars for every man, woman and child was pile d on the backs of the elderly, of the weak, of the poor, of everybody in our society by the New Democratic Party, and they will not even address it. There is one more component, Mr. Acting Speaker, that we all have to talk about.

The New Democratic Party talk about it in a different li ght than we do and that is to create an economic climate that will generate the wealth and the incomes to create the emplo yment opportu nities, to create the kind of income tax and the kind of taxation that this country needs to pay for the social services and the health care and the education demands of the publ ic. There are no secrets. Those are four basic facts and principles that we all have to deal with .

Again, I complimen t my colleagues and the Premier, because I bel ieve in the past two and a half years we have taken a very balanced approach to it. We have responded to those needs that are certainly critical and have to be dealt with to make sur e that the li veli hoods of individuals are in fact protected through those essential services. So the key word, the key comments that have to be made , Mr.

Acting Speaker, is a balanced approach. * (1 520) I want to ju st reflect back to the el ection for a few minutes and touch base on a few things that I think are important to ta lk about because again it is important to note that our Premier and the people whom he buil t around him, that every riding, of which this province has some 57 ridings, had a very high- qualit y caliber individu al runnin g on behalf of the Filmon team. I complimen t each and every individual who put their name forward to run for our Party, and thank them for their commitment. Yes, Mr.

Acting Speaker, we did not win as big a majority as what appeared to be out th ere, but we did get 30 seats and the people of Manitoba did give us a mandate. They gave us a mandate provincially when our federal colleagues and our federal counterparts were less than 15 percent in the poll s. They said to the legisla tors of this province, we like what you have presented to us in the last two and a half years and we are prepared to put our trust in you to go forward into the 19 90s, and I think Manitoba will be better for it.

Let me say as well that I believ e there were something lik e seven seats that were lost by our Party by les s than 500 votes. Again, a clear indication that many Members of this Legislature who are sitting here with that kind of a majority, whether it be on the oth er side, are here certainly with the mandate of those people , but not as-it could have gone either way. We could have been

October 29, 1990 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA 48 1 sitting her e with up to 37 seats, which, at one point, was qui te possibl e. Wha t happe ned? We ll, I bel ieve , Mr. Acting Speaker, it was the Ontario election. lt was the Ontario el ection to some degree where we saw the collap se of the Lib er al Party because of overtaxation and opportunism , and the buoyancy which it gave the NDP, a little bit of momentum at the latte r part of a campaign and many NDP voters went back to their traditional roots.

So, buil ding that kind of a background, I think it is important to note that the people of Manitoba can expect a balanced, responsible Government to the dealings of public affairs. To further reiterate, we have many people who ran for our Party out in other ridings that at any time would make an excellent represe ntative for those constitue ncies, and at some point I would hope be able to be here to carry out a responsibil ity that we all have been privil eged to have .

I again want to say to the uns uccess ful candidat es, from wh ateve r Party that they represent, that they are to be congratulated and commanded for putting the ir names forward in a dem ocratic system, in a democratic society. To give the people a choice as to who they want here, and to take the time and the commitment, to take that , put the ir name forward, I complimen t them for it because it is being part of a process that we all have to che rish , protect and make sure that survives over the long time so that we can all survive in a free society.

To my colleagues who are newly el ected, to my colleagues who are re-elected and appointed to Cabinet, and to the Members of the Opposition Parties who were elected for the first time, altho ugh I know ther e is only one Party which I refer to in that context, but to the thir d Opposition Party that were re- elected , I hope that we can keep one thing in mind as legis lators.

Yes, we can play the little pol itical games that come about and the calling for resignations and the kind of postu ring that the system requi res at certain times, but let us remember one thing, the people of Canada, atthis particular time in our history , are very frustrated. They are very upset. They are saying to us, the elected people of this province and to the elected people of this cou ntry, it is time to get the people's agenda on the first item of priority. Quit playing your little polit ical games. Get on with the job of making this country the great country that it is.

Let us make this province the great province that it can be. Yes, we will take our political shots and the pol itical activity, but the one thing we all have to remember very seriously is to get on with the job of looking after the public affairs of the people of Manitoba. Whe ther you are in Her Majes ty's Loyal Opposition or whether we are in Government, we do have that obligation and that responsibil ity. I think that it has been demonstrated over the past two and a half years how sincere this Government has been and will continue to be in dealing with the publi c agenda. That is No. 1 in our minds.

I want to as we ll, Mr. Acting Speak er, acknowledge the staff of the Legislature . I want to acknowledge the new Pages. l wantto acknowledge the app ointment of the Speaker, Deputy Speaker, and say it is an opportun ity that you have to serve and to work in this great Assembly, as it is ours as elected peop le. I also want to say to the public servants of this province that the public are watching very carefully as to the performance of each and every one of us, whether we are elected or whether we are employed and on public taxpayers' payroll.

We have to make sur e we maximize our output so that they are getting their money's worth. Now, there are certain areas where people say we do not want anymore Government or we do not want anymore activity from Gover nment, but I believ e we are public servants. The people who work for us are public servants. lt is time that we make sur e we gave the taxpayers a maximum outpu t for the money that they are giving us, because I can tell you that I have many constituents who would lik e to have a Government job. I can tell you that most sincerely.

Many people are envious of the wages that Government people get, that civil servants get, and would dearly lik e to have the security and the income of a Government job. In fact, I have done a li ttle bit of checking, Mr. Acting Speaker. I would th ink that you would find that mo st people in society want to get a Government job, but there are very few that move from the Government to the private sector. I think that speaks volume s as to what a Government job means to an individual in today's society. I want to make a brief comment, as it relates to the thr one speech.

I again want to complimen t all Members who spoke on the throne speech because

482 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MAN ITOBA October 29, 1990 that is truly an opportunity to put forward your ideas, your thoug hts and to reflect on what you beli eve your constituent sent you here to do and to show your abil ity and your knowl edge of your constituency. I compliment every Member of the House who spoke on the thr one speech , because it is in fact an expe rience that not many people in society have the opportunity to do, to stand in this great Chamber and to put forward those thoug hts and be heard and be reflected by the media.

While I am speaking about the media, it is extremely important to note as well, because I have seen over the past years, that I have seen in this Assembly the chang ing of the media year after year, new people coming on board and oth er ones leavi ng, that they do have a responsibility to reflect accurately what goes on in this public arena. So I encou rage them and challenge them to make sur e that they reflect as accurately as possible what has taken pla ce in this great place. The throne speech I bel ieve laid out a clear direction.

Not in the way in which would confuse anyone or try to be overly flowery about certain conditions, as has the budget done , Mr. Acting Speaker. I belie ve it has dealt forthri ght, hones tly with the situation in which the province finds itself in, and that I compliment my colleagues, the Premier and the Government. I want to pay particular attention in the few minutes that I have at this time to acknowledge particularly the comments made by the Member for Rupert sland (Mr. Harper) and the Member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin ) .

I consider the two individuals as very good friends, and, in the time that I have had the opportunit y to excha nge views, to debate with , to work on programs with, as we have done with the Member for The Pas, have to say to the m that I believ e there is a real challenge before them to lay before this Assembly, as is the Member for Point Douglas (Mr. Hickes) , wher e they, as aboriginals, bel ieve this province and this country are going. They hav e a clear oppor tunit y and a respo nsibility, Mr.

Acting Speaker, to tell this Assembly and to tell this province wher e they see us working together to make Manitoba's aboriginal peop le, give them the full opportun ity to excel, to have full employm ent opportunit ies, to completely pla y a role in our society, not just deal ing with aboriginal issues, but dealing in the larger context of which we all have a respo nsibil ity. lt was interesting to note the comments, particularly of the Member for Rupert sl and (Mr. Harper) .

I have read and I have st udied th em. lt is my understanding as what he is saying is that there is no longer -in fact, it is an impediment to the Indian people of this provi nce- The In dian Act of the House of Commons. That is what I heard him say. * (1 530) I bel ieve that the Member for The Pas(Mr. Lath lin ) all uded to the same kind of difficulties. I have to say, I agree that it being under the bur eaucr acy of any federal department would be somewha t frustrating and non-pr oductive .

Well, if that is the case, and I take it is the case as wha t they said, then I encourage them to come straight forward and work with us to put ideas to the House of Commons and before the peo ple of Manitoba to help resolve some of the problems that they have pointed out to us. So I say sincerely to the Member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) , to the Member for Rupertsland (Mr. Harper) and to the Member for Point Dougla s (Mr.

Hickes), let us lay before this Assembly some alternatives, whether it be deal ing with land claims, whether it be dealing with unemplo yment, whether it be dealing with the urb an Native strategy, whether it be dealing with gaming, because it is important that we all work toge ther to resolve the greater prob lems of economic woes of this country. We all have to have the resources to share , to maximize the needs ofthe people; whether they be aboriginal , whether they be any oth er group in our society, we have to make those resources available.

The Member for Point Douglas, I would invite him to read wha t the his tory of this province has given us under the New Democratic Party, as I would the Members for The Pas and Rupertsiand :$ 547 milli on we paid in interest that could have gone a long way to help with the educa tional problems of the aboriginal peopl e. That money would have gone a long way to educate every aboriginal person in this province to the maximum, but that money is not her e. That money is gone to the foreign countries and the foreign banks.

So, before they get too comfortable within the New Democratic Party, I would sugge st that they review where they can go to help the Native people of this province, because the history of the New Democratic Party has been dismal and a failur e in helping the daily needs of the aboriginal peop le. I will put my record solidly on the record, so that they can assess who has done the most for the

October 29, 1990 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MANITOBA 483 peopl e of this province, particul arly the aboriginal peopl e. I am proud of our record, and I would hope they would work with us in debate to help make sur e all the concerns are brought forward. I think it is important as well , Mr. Acting Speaker, when credit should be given. lt should be given up front and honestly, and I am going to do that.

We have, over the past few weeks and months, been very critical of the federal Gov ernment, but I have not heard too many people stand in this House , particularly the Opposition Parties, and say thank you to the federal Government when they moved on the cash advance for the farmers of this cou ntry. I never heard one of them say in the ir spee ches, we want to acknowledge the sup port the feder al Government gave on interest-free cash advances to the farmers of Canada. Well, I am.

I am saying thank you to Charlie Mayer, to the federal Agricul ture Minister, for seeing what was being put before them from a communi ty that was un der severe stress. I say on the record today, thank you to the federal Govern ment for ha vi ng the knowledge and the for esigh t to imp lemen t the cash advance for the farm communi ty. I make no apologies for doing that. At the same time, I will be equally critical of the feder al Gov ernment when they in fact do the opposite and deter the progress of western Canada and Canadians.

I think it is time, I think there is a new era in Canada wher e we have to be very straightforward with one another. I am going to do that as well . Well, on to the specific items dealing with the budget. I know that I have used a lot of my time up, but I will continue now to get on with the more specific details deal ing with the bu dget. I want to complim ent my colleag ue, the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) , who has again put forward to the people of Manitoba the truth as to the situa tion as to which we are in fiscally in th is province.

He did not spend an hour and a half du ring the Budget Address to try and dress up, or to try in some way tell the people of Manitoba that the problems are simple and easy, because they are not. They are not that simpl istic. They are not going to be easy. There is one theme that he has carried out throug hout his dis cussions on this budget and what has to be told to all the people of Manitoba and particularly the Opposition Parties. We are going through difficul t economic times. We all have to share in those difficult economic times responsibly.

We do not find comfort in an individual in society who is less fortunate. We, the Conservative Party, are not hardhearted when it comes to looking after our neighbours. In fact, coming from the backgrounds of the fam ily of which I have come from, from the backgrounds I know the Member for Swan River (Ms. Wowchuk ), has come from and the form er Mem ber for Swan River-goodness sakes, Parker Burrell has a heart as big, my goodness, as the moon.

He never turned anybody away if they needed money, or if they needed a job, even though he may have been born in a fish shack and only had one suit, and did not speak as elo quently as the Member for Concordia (Mr. Doer) thinks he speaks. He was her e with genuine feel ings as every one of my colleag ues has genuine fee ling when it comes to dealing with the famil ies of people who are in less fortunate situations. Why do they thi nk we increased the Family Services budget to the magnitude of which we have , the foster parent increases, the shel ters?

We did it because we wanted to, and we will continue to do it because we want to. The NDP do not have a monopoly on looking after people in less fortunate conditions. An Honour able Member: lt was ju st rhetoric that we heard from th em. Mr. Downey: That is correct, because we can lay many cases before this Assembly that clearly point it out, but we all have to do it withi n the economic capabili ties of this province. H we do not, then we wil l kill the generator of wealth that gives everyone the support that they need. lt is the income makers of this province.

They wail away at the corporations that ther e was another $8 million. What about the $27 mill ion they frittered away in Saudi Arabia? What about the $16 mil lion in ManOil? That is the kind of waste. That is the kind of waste that we saw come from the New Democratic Party, horrendous. We se ll Manfor to create em ploym ent op portu nities, to get on with a billion doll ars investment, to create jobs for the Natives of that area. Do you know what the Opposition are saying? They are frustrating it to the point where who woul d want to come to the province to invest.

There are the best environmental protection hearings going on. Ther e is a reforestation that will create a

484 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEMB LY OF MAN ITOBA October 29, 19 90 treme ndous amount of economic activity and responsibly done , yet they are always raising this concern about Repap. I would ask the Member for The Pas (Mr. Lath lin) to stand and clearly state his position on what he thi nks of the Repap operation. I would ask him and the Mem ber for Rupertsland (Mr. Harper) to stand and the Member for Point Doug las (Mr. Hi ckes), as to what they thi nk the relationship is between the Native people and the unions of the North .

I have not heard one Native stand and compl iment the union activities of northern Manitoba since I have been in this Legislatur e. I want the New Democratic Party to clearly say, how can they represent those two factions? Well , I am glad, Mr. Acting Speaker. There is an individual I want to address a couple of comments to, and I will table this documen t because it is important that everybody have -(i nterjection)- you know it is important because one would have expected the Leader of the New Democratic Party (Mr. Doer) to put someth ing constructive forward on the record as it relates to the budget.

But probably summed up, the best of al l, by the editorial in the Brandon Sun of yesterday as to wha t the New Democratic Party-it is called, "Doer's rhetor ic." I apologiz e for using the name. I am just qu oting from the Brandon Sun. (Mr. Eric Stefanson, Acting Speaker, in the Chair) Let me table this document, Mr. Acting Speaker, because it is important that I do. I happen to have enough copies for all Member s by the way, and this will give individuals a little bit of an opportun ity from a basis from whic h to work. Well, it sums up pretty accurately where the Leader of the New Democratic Party (Mr.

Doer) is coming from. You know, I thi nk it is extr emely important. I should just quote part of it, maybe I will just-here it is, "The opposition leade r says the gov ernment should be inv olved on job-cr eation initiatives-perhaps the most costly programs a government could undertake . Such programs would only add to the deficit. "On the other hand , he is telling us that the government should be more fiscally responsible. "Mr. Doer cannot have it both ways-even in opposition." I am passing that around, Mr. Acting Speaker, so all Members can see the rhetoric of the Leader of the New Democratic Party (Mr.

Doer) because that is exactly what he is seeing as rhet oric, political opportunism . He passed up his opportunity to be Premier for six weeks ; he will never be Premier for six days. He will always be in Opposition. Mr. Acting Speaker, it was because he was rejected. The Conservative Party took a vote as to wh ether they would have him or not and he did not pass the grade. * (1 540) (Mr.Speaker in the Chair) Mr. Spe aker, I want to say again about the Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness)-could you tell me, sir, how mu ch time do I have left to make my final comments?

My time? -(in terjection)- Oh, that is good, thank you . Mr. Speaker, I did not realiz e I had qu ite so mu ch time left or I would have furthe r read the editorial. I would conclu de as comments ju st in the final paragraph : "In short, it is up to the opposition to not only provide le vell ed-hea ded criticism of the budget bu t also to provide an alterna tive to the governme nt's plan . "Mr. Doer, one sugg ests, did neither." Now he got a real whopping in the Brandon Sun editorial. I would hope he would read it and reflect, because I think those are the sentiments of all the people of Manitoba. Mr.

Speaker, let me continu e on because I think it is important in the 1 0 minu tes or so that I have left to deal more specifically with the budget. I want to deal with some of the Northern Affairs comments that were made of the last few days of the Members opposite . Our Minister of Finance (Mr. Manness) has again been honest and straightforward with the people of Manitoba. -(i nterjection)- Well, the Members talk about smoke and mirrors. I can tell you this Minister has maintained a course .

He has put forward the position of this Gove rnment to continue to contain the taxation on the public, to work towards and to maintain the essential services for the people of Manitoba, to continue to work towards, in the long term, the reduction of the deficit, which was given to us by the New Democratic Party, and to create an economic clime tha t will in fact gene rate the incomes that pay for our social programs and to increase the tax base. I want to refer again to the Northern Affairs expend itures and some of the things tha t are

October 29, 1990 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEM BLY OF MANITOBA 485 happ ening in the North. In doing so, Mr. Speaker, 1 want the record to show that if all those who got th eir recent Manitoba Lotteries Annual Report-1 think there is a clear indication of the co-operation we saw in the past year and a half of working with a lot of our commu nities-there is a fine picture of my colleague, the Minister of Cul ture, Heri tage and Recreation (Mrs. Mitchelso n), the Member for The Pas (Mr.

Lath lin) and myself as Minister of Northern and Native Affairs, signing the gam ing agreemen t between The Pas Indian band and the Province of Manitoba, a major step forward. I bel ieve if I can recall the comments correctly of the Honourable Member for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin) , he said at that

part icular time that this was truly an example for the rest of Canada to fol low. Well, I bel ieve that. I still bel ieve that it will be able to work with the Honourable Member for The Pas as it relates to many issues deal ing with the Native community, his community and the Member for Rupert sland's (Mr. Harper) as well. I want to tal k now more specifically about the Northern Affairs portion of the Estimates. We will get into that in detail , but I have some particular highlig hts which I want to touch base with.

You know, when we were elected in 1 988, the first thi ng we were hit with were five northern Indian bands who had been frustrated to no end. They could not get out of the New Democratic Party, since 19 81 , any commitment to deal with the Northern Flood Agreement. Mr. Speaker, we moved aggressively to put senior negotiators in place to deal with the problems that they were faced with . Yes , we may not have suc ceeded totally, but we have made massive steps, I believ e.

One of the thi ngs we did do-a nd I want the Members opposite to add this to their totals when they are adding up what northern Manitoba got un der this Government. I want them to put on the bottom line $1 0 milli on that this Government paid for to work towards the settlemen t of the Northern Flood Agreement. I also want the m to add up the money that Manitoba Hydro put into the Northern Flood Agreement.

When they are doing the ir calculations, when they are doing all their adding and th eir criticism of this Government and not spending money in northern Manitoba, add $1 0 milli on to the bottom line and see what that does in a percentage increase for northern Manitobans. lt was not given without a full sincerity of wanting to get on with resolving the issues that were left to us by the New Democratic Party. There is another extremely important item that I want Members to pay attention to.

Yes, it did not show up in the Northern Affairs budget, but it came from Northe rn Affairs and it came from my honourable colleague , the Minister of Cu ltur e, He ritage and Recreation (Mrs. Mitchelso n). That was $500,000 over two years to deliver a recreation program for the young people of northern Manitoba. My coll eagues supported me and suppor ted my colleague, the Minister of Cul ture , Heritage and Recreation, without hesitation to help the young people of the North . Today, there are 27 new people working in those programs to help give those young peo ple productive ways of life .

I would expect any members of the cloth who sit in this Ch amber to stand up and give credit where credit is du e when it comes to helping the young people of the North and specifically those areas. I would ask that he take a look at both sides, both sides of the issue , before he passes jud gmen t. I would say tha t sincerely, because I th ink it is important that he do so. Let us deal again with the other initiatives that have been put forward, and I pointed the picture out of the Memb er for The Pas (Mr. Lathlin ), my colleague, Cul ture , He ritage and Recreation (Mrs.

Mitchel son) and myseH in the signing of the gaming agreemen t with The Pas Indian Band. Let us not forget the millions of dol lars that my colleague , the Minister of Education (Mr. Derkach) , put forward for that same commun ity to the Bache lor of Nursing degree program in The Pas. Why do Members not be big enough to stand and give compl iments wher e complimen ts are due and credit wher e credit is due? Is it because they cannot have that quick political cheap li ttle shot at us? Is that what it is? Is that why?

Wel l, I told them earlier the people of Manitoba and Canada are fed up with that kind of political politicking games that they are pla ying. -(in terjection)- No, that is exactly what they told us, that is what -(i nterjection)- No, they are not, the people of Manitoba, lik e all the people of Canada, want the tru th. You are a stranger to it, I can assure you that, from the Leader of the New Democratic Party (Mr. Doer) .

486 LEG ISLATIVE ASSEMBL Y OF MAN ITOBA October 29 , 19 90 Well, again, the Member opposite says about the GST. We are very clear on the record as to wher e we stand on the GST. An Honourable Member : We do not lik e it. Mr. Downey: That is right, we do not lik e it. We do not lik e taxation of any kind, but when you are follo wing a New Democratic Party Government, you have no option bu t to put taxation in pla ce to clean up the mess or to continue with the taxation. Let us look at the GST. I interestingly noted the new Leader of the Liberal Party, in his commitment now to get rid of the GST.

How many people remember Pierre Ell iott Trudeau and wage and price controls, and what they said about that one when Robert Stanfield was Prime Minister, and the gas tax when Crosbie was bringing in a gas tax? lt was only a short period afterwards that it was implemen ted. Well, in this case there is a difference, Mr. Speaker, because Mr. Jean Ch retien and the Liberal Party will not have to worry about being in office-will not have to worry about being in office. An Honour able Member: Nei the r will Brian Mu lr oney. Mr. Downey: I beli eve Mr. Brian Mulr oney will be in office.

He may have to be propped up, he may have to be propped up by a Reform Party of western Canada. He may have to be propped up by a blo ck Party from Quebec, but I believ e Brian Mulr oney will be the Prime Minister. An Honourable Member: I shu dder to think. * (1 550) Mr. Downey: Wel l, there is one alternative. There is another alternative and that , of cou rse, is the New Democratic Party. Maybe by that time some of the policies of the Government in Ontario will start to be evident as to the direction in which they are going to take this cou ntry.

God help them if they are anyth ing lik e the di rection that the Ho war d Pawley Gove rnment, of which the Member for Concordia (Mr. Doer) sat as a Minister. If they take in that direction, then they are hea ding into a nose-dive of death that they will never get out of. Mr.

Sp eaker, our commitmen t to northern Manitoba, I can go over and over it, continu ed to su pport the infrastructure programs of the North with sewer and wate r, fire protection mechanisms, bridges and roads in the communi ties which were neg lected for some 16 years by the last administration, nur sing stations at Easterville, kidney dialysis in Thom pson, sewer and water, one sewage lagoon , which I am sure it was appropriately placed and that was in the back yard of the Member for Fl in Aon (Mr. Storie).

Well, her e again, here is this Party of New Democratic people who change the colour of th eir campaign material to reflect the ir environmental concerns. He was, in fact, under an environmental order as a Minister of the Crown, and it took the Conservative Party to put the funds togeth er to clean up their mess in the sewage lagoon at Bakers Narrows. So mu ch, Mr. Speaker, for th eir commitment to the people of Manitoba. I conclude my remarks, Mr. Speaker, by saying, I am proud to sit as a Member of this Government with this Premier (Mr.

Filmon) , who showed the people of Manitoba on September 11 that he had the policies, he had the direction, and he had the strength to take Manitoba into the 19 90s. Thank you , Mr. Speaker. Mr. Conrad Santos (Broadway) : Mr. Speaker, I am privileged to participate in this debate on the budget.

I shall focus on the economy itself, the present situation of the economy, condition and state of our economy in general , some basic concepts lik e GDP rise, inflation, recession, the role of education and economic dev elopmen t, the twin problems of inflation and unem ploym ent, the pligh t of our senior citizens in the face of inflation and unem ployment, and then offer some suggestions to the Government for the proper dev elopmen t program for se nior citizens, and conclude with some gui delines about the happy and confident style of liv ing.

If we look at it from the societal perspective, the economy is the system of

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Collection	Manitoba — Debates (Hansard)
Citation	35-1-13a
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Volume / chapter	35th 1st hansardpdf 13a.pdf
Language	en
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